The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-20 00:00:00

ROYAL PROGRESS.

Captain ROUS said that there was a report very
Prevalent that her Majesty intended, about the month of
May, to proceed to Berlin, on a visit to the King of Prussia.
As such a proceeding on the part of her Majesty would
materially affect the interests of a great portion of his
uonstituents, he wished to know from the Right Hon.
Gentleman whether there was any foundation for the
rumour ?

Sir ROBERT PEEL said that really there were
so many reports abroad, totally destitute of foun-
dation, that he must protest against the practice of
requiring a Minister of the Crown to find answers for
these reports. It really gave a sort of sanction to these
reports which was by no means proper. But as the
Hun. Gentleman had said that he had heard the reports
which he mentioned, and that they were injurious to the
interests of his constituents, he (Sir R. Peel) had no
objection to' state that he believed them to be entirely
without foundation.
COSIAISSARI AT ESTIMATES.

XT. W. WlLLlAUS'incipired of "'the Right Hop.

t-,

.. ,

Baronet when the papers connected with the Commis-
sariat estimates would be ready to lay before the
House ?

Sir G. CLERK said that the documents were in the
hands of the printers, and would be laid before the
House next week.

INDIA.

Mr. MACAULAY inquired what had caused the delay
in the presentation of the papers ordered respecting the
late occurrences in India.

Sir R. PEEL said he was sorry if any delay had
taken place. but he had not peen certain whether the
House should get the papers printed or not.
The SPEAKER was understood to say that they
should be printed by the Foreign-office.
Sir R. PEEL again said he was sorry for the delay.
POOR-LAW (SCOTLAND).
Mr. E. ELLICE, junior, inquired of the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir J Graham) when the Commissioners
of Poor-law Inquiry in Scotland would send in their
report ?
Sir J. GRAHAM understood from the Noble Lord at
the head of the Commis ion thar,the report would Le
ready to be laid before the House soon after the recess.
THE TARIFF—FOREIGN RECIPROCITY.
_ _

Mr. RICARDO rose to bring forward the motion of
which he had given notice, to the effect—That an humble
address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her
Majesty will be graciously pleased to give directions
to her servants not to enter into any negotiations with fo •
reign Powers which would make any contemplated altera-
tions of the tariff of the United Kingdom contingent on
the alteration of the tariffs of other countries; and hum-
bly expressing to her Majesty the opinion of this House,-
that the great object of _relieving' the commercial inter-
course between this 'country and foreign nations from
all injurious restrictions would be best promoted by re-
gulating our own Customs' duties as may be most
suitable to the financial and commercial interests
of this country, without reference to the amount
of duties which Foreign Powers might think it expe-
dient for their own interests to levy on British goods.
The effect of the course which had been hitherto pur-
sued was altogether unsatisfactory. Having signally
failed in obtaining their object by means of nego-
tiations to extend their exports, it became them
to inquire whether they might not arrive at
the same end by simple legislation on their
imports. The treaties which were in question
in 1842 were those with Brazil, with Portugal, Spain,
and France. The fate of the first of these treaties had
been most pathetically described by the Right Hon.
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade. It was
now clearly understood that the result of all these pro-
tracted negotiations with Brazil was a handsome propo-
sition on the part of the Brazilian Government
not to raise the duties on our commodities more than
25 per cent., in return for concessions on our part. What
the concessions were the Right Hon. Gentleman had not
shown; but he ventured to say, however preposterous
were the proposals of the Brazilian Government, those of
our own Government were so in a four or five-fold degree.
Great as was his respect for the abilities of the Noble Lord;
at the head of the Foreign Department, and of the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government,
displayed, as these last were so conspicuously, in making
a good case out of bad materials, he could not imagine
what arguments they had used in order to entice the
Brazilian Government to adopt the course which they re-
commended. Certainly aproposition to reduce restrictions
would not come well from a nation which had imposed a
duty of 400 or 500 per cent. upon Brazilian produce.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) A convention for the sup-
pression of slavery was one thing, and a treaty of com-
merce was another, and if slavery were the ground upon
which they voted, he would suggest to the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it
would not be best togrant compensation to the Brazilian
slaveholders, as they had done to the West Indians.—
(Hear.) In Spain they had done more than negotiate.
Che Government of Spain could not but know that upwards
of 300,000 of her people were employed in smuggling,
and in smuggling only. And yet with every circum-
stance apparently in our favour to assist and encourage
our commerce, it was a fact that we were further off our
point than ever. British influence had never been so low
in the Peninsula as at the present moment. The next
commercial convention which had miscarried was
that with Portugal, and he need not now
point out the derangement in the wine trade
which had been occasioned by it. Owing to this
circumstance alone there had been a diminution in the
usual quantity of wine, amounting to not less than
1,080,000 gallons. Those interested naturally remonstrated
on the subject with the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
but, instead of redress, their position had been aggravated
by a fresh impediment, which had grown up to a reduction
in the duties on wines, in the shape of a drawback,
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had granted to
the merchants. So that before any arrangement can be
made with Portugal, for every one shilling of duty that
may be reduced an enormous sum of money must be
paid by us as compensation. This was what had
been happily termed by the Honourable Member for
Taunton (Mr. Labouchere), always ending, never ending.
The Hon. Gentleman then referred to a paper which
had been laid on the table 'of the House, containing a
valuable series of commercial tariffs drawn up by Mr.
Macgregor. A French gentleman, Mons. Saint Ferrier,
had laid down the system of commercial policy pursued by
France. Amongst other things, he said that in the
negotiations of France with England, most of the con-
ditions proposed by the latter should be avoided. The
French Government had lost great sums of money in
fostering its own manufactures, which they might have
had at less expense from other countries. It was usual
to introduce some clause relating to commerce in most
treaties. There was such a clause in the late treaty with
America. Lord Ashburton had a clause introduced that
the agricultural produce of Maine might be admitted on
the same footing as the produce of the American colonies.
But, Maine being now as much a portion of the United
States as New York, the other States might claim to
have their corn admitted en the same terms as that of
Maine. The Right Hon. Baronet had admitted
American rice on the same terms as the rice from the
west coast of Africa. The Right Hon. Baronet admit-
ted, in answer to a question from the Noble Lord, the
Member for London, that great difficulties existed in ne-
gotiating commercial treaties, and that even greater dif-
ficulties existed in negotiating them where constitutional
governments and the representative system had existed.
It was unwise and impolitic to wait to see what
other countries would' do. It would be better for them
to commence with their own Custom-house. M. Guizot, in
answer to a question put to him by one of the
Members of the Chamber of Deputies, announced
his intention of not following the ignis fatuus of com-
mercial treaties, but would adopt such measures as
might be necessary for the welfare of the
country without reference to foreign countries.
He also said that the modification of tariffs
would produce all the benefit desired by all par-
ties in extending their commercial relations. If this
were true, no person could find fault with him (Mr.
Ricardo) for not bringing forward his motion before.
With respect to Russia, a country which was surrounded
by protective duties, he should say that their trade was
much greater. The imports from that country amounted
to five millions sterling, while the exports amounted to
only 1,600,000/. It was asserted that this balance would
have to be paid in gold, but he considered that a
profitable trade could be carried on in gold. He thought
there was no supernatural attribute in the word gold.
The exports to Russia during the year 1841, consisted
chiefly of cotton twist, sugar, coffee, wine, rum,
and such articles, which came from the bonded
warehouses in this country, where they were sent
by the Brazilians, who received in return cotton,
woollen, and other manufactures from England. If they
could not find Ministers bold enough to carry out those
principles which would tend to abolish restrictions which
crippled trade, they might bid adieu to the greatness
and prosperity which this country had so long enjoyed.
He hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would not
content himself with contemplating the present years of
plentiful harvests. He trusted, that the same causes
which were in operation in past years were in operation-
now, and it was possible that they might have years of
scarcity again. He hoped he would throw aside all the
old principles of protection and monopoly, and see the
absurdity and injustice of forcing the people into such
costly sacrifices. He trusted that their Ambassadors
would receive instructions to tell the different Courts of
Europe that Great Britain had aroused herself from her
delusions, under which she had so long laboured; that
she now knew she could not sell without buying, or buy
without selling ; that in using the productions of other
countries they were only using their own in another
shape. He hoped they would be able to say that all the
ports of the country were opened, and that the only
limits to their commerce were those which they them-
selves imposed. He concluded by proposing his motion.
Mr. EWART seconded the motion. In referring to
the history of commercial treaties, he asked what
good result had this country ever obtained from them ?
The first treaty to which he would refer was the cele-
brated Methuen treaty of 1703, Which was for a long
time the wonder of the commercial world. The effect
of it was to introduce into this country a taste for
the wine of Oporto, which then superseded French wine,
that until then was the only wine consumed in England.
The next great treaty was that which was concluded with
France in 1786, by Mr. Pitt, of which it was said that it
was so advantageous to the English nation that the
French ought never again to make a commercial treaty.
He turned from our own country to other countries, and
he asked whether the reduction of the duty on im-
ports had not been highly beneficial. The most obvious
country in reference to this part of the question was the
United States of America. For a long-series of years,
while the United States of America were steadily pro-
gressing, their imports largely exceeded their exports,
and the attention of one of the most acute observers of
human nature, Dr. Franklin, was turned to the subject.
He said, that if the importation of foreign luxuries
could ruin a people, they, the Americans, would proba-
bly have been ruined long ago, for the British nation
had claimed and exercised the right of
importing, not only the superfluities of her
own production, but of every nation under
heaven. But setting aside these questions of the past,
the simple question was, whether they. were likely to
succeed in future. There appeared to be no approxima-
tion on the part of France towards a commercial treaty
with this country. He believed that there existed in
France, and in almost every nation in the world, an
extreme ealousy of English commerce. The same thing
prevailed in Germany. He did not believe that the
ny approach towards a
connexion with them
cUunmitmedereSitualt
ceusunceoxnitueri.plaoteudr
futurea
could only consist in our throwing open our ports to
them, and taking whatever we wanted, convinced
that they would in the end take from us what-
ever they wanted, in return. He did not think
that the answer of the Minister would be
satisfactory to the country. The mind of the country
was made up on the subject. The French Government had
given a decided answer on the question, and her Majesty's
Government ought to take the same course, and relieve
the commerce of the country from the mischiefs occa-
sioned by the uncertainty.

Mr. GLADSTONE did not think it would be difficult
to show the House sufficient reason for refusing the
motion. Whether he should be able to answer the
honourable Gentleman to his own satisfaction,
he did not know, for he did not quite under-
stand the terms of the motion. He thought he
could satisfy the House that the motion ought not to be
conceded, and that without disputing or even referring
to a great many of the Hon. Gentleman's statements.
The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the negotiations
which had taken place between Great Britain and other
countries. Now, he (Mr. Gladstone) did not think
it necessary to enter with him (Mr. R.) into the policy
of these negotiations. He did not think it necessary,
because if he agreed with him that all these were use-
less, still he had not made out a case for a motion so
broad as this. The Hon. Gentleman last year brought
forward a motion that it was neither useful nor expedient
to make commercial treaties ; but this motion was still
larger, as it would go to declare, abstractly and without
condition, that this Government ought never to enter
into arrangements respecting tariffs with other countries.
It would declare that no two countries could enter into
any arrangements involving questions of trade. He
thanked the Hon. Gentleman, however, on the part of
his Right Hon. Friend for the high opinion he had ex-
pressed of him and which he believed to be deserved,
and for the extreme charity of his judgment.
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ricardo) in speaking of
Brazil had ventured to say, that the proceedings of this
country in the attempted negotiation with Brazil were
absurd.

Mr. RICARDO—NoJ said preposterous.— (A laugh.)
• Mr. GLADSTONE—WeII, preposterous. He said
that nothing could be more preposterous than that on
the part of Brazil duties on certain articles, to the
amount of only 40 per cent. should be charged, whilst
in our tariff we charged 300 per cent. on some of the
articles coming Brazil. Now, did the Hon. Member
think that this was a fair representation of the case ?
Why it was only the other evening that he (Mr. Glad-
stone), when discussing another question, had been called
upon to show that the 40 per cent: duties of the Bra-
zilians were imposed not for the objects of revenue, but
)r the avowed purpose of raising up a protective system.
Surely that was a very different matter.
Mr. RICARDO--4t comes to just the same thing.
Mr. GLADSTONE then did not understand thdsub-
ject at all—he knew not the distinction between duties
laid on for revenue and duties laid on for protection.
However, that was a matter into which he would not
further enter. The Hon. Gentleman had adverted to
the case of Spain, and to the failure of every attempt to
effect a-commercial negotiation with that country. He
did not at all wish to disguise the particular objections
which lay in the way of these negotiations. But he
ought to have taken into his view all the special circum-
stances which affected Spain, and the difficulties which
this Government had to encounter in a country where
Government, at the best of times weak, had lately
become powerless, as, unfortunately, recent events
had but too clearly proved.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the case of America,
and had said that one of the clauses of Lord Ashbur-
ton's treaty was likely to produce the worst effects; that
was a question that he would not now go into, but he
thought that the Hon. Gentleman had given a wrong
interpretation of the clause he had alluded to with re-
spect to the State of Maine. The opinion he had formed
on one of the clauses was entirely groundless; so also
with respect to rice. With respect to Maine the privi-
lege given to it was one that had been given by treaties.
The Hon. Gentleman appeared to think it unreasonable
that they should stickle with the duties that had been
put on by Portugal on goods the produce of this country,
while they were placing a duty of 30 or 40 per cent.
on the products of that country. Now for his own part lie
thought there was no comparison between the two cases.
He would not deny that there were great difficulties
connected with the subject. The uncertainty itself was
a great evil. The delay was an evil.--(Cheers.) He
would not deny that, in certain cases, negotiations
of this nature might give rise to hostile feelings. The
negotiators might be apt to over-estimate the advan-
tages which they themselves offered, and to under-esti-
mate the advantages offered by others. He admitted
that inconveniences might attend negotiations of this
nature, and therefore he admitted that negotiations for
commercial treaties ought not to be undertaken without
some prospect of their being brought to a success-
ful termination. He had no desire to underrate
the practical difficulties of the subject, but the
question really raised by the Honourable Gentleman
was this—Could commercial treaties, under any
circumstances, be advantageous ? Because if it
were possible to form an advantageous commercial
treaty, it would be most unwise in the House to preclude
itself from taking advantage of such a circumstance, by
consenting to this resolution. Now, the treaty with the
Brazils was an advantageous treaty. He admitted that
the treaty was in one respect an illustration of the ar-
gument of the Ilonourable Gentleman, because in later
years it had tended to create a belief among the Bra-
zilians that they had been unjustly dealt with. No
doubt in that treaty political countenance and eneou-
rq;ement had been exchanged for commercial advan-
tages, and when that political countenance was no longer
necessary, those who had to pay for it, in the shape of
commercial advantages, felt no doubt a degree of sore-
ness. The Hon. Gentleman said that the trade with
Russia was as great as that with the Brazils. He de-
nied that such was the case ; but it should be recollected
that the Brazils had a population of six millions, while
Russia had a population of sixty millions. The stipula-
tion with regard to the limitation of duty in the Brazilian
treaty, was a most advantageous one for the manufac-
turers of this country. The lion. Gentleman had referred
to the commercial treaty with France, in 1787. Now,
that was an example of a good commercial treaty.
He 'wished to draw a distinction between occasional
duties, and an indiscriminate system of commercial
duties. He hoped that the present Government, and
those who might in future govern, would profit by ex-
perience, and give to commercial treaties not mere than
their due weight ; but that need not preclude the possi-
bility of making any treaties. The question was, whe-
ther abstract. propositions in commercial matters were
the most convenient forms for expressing the opinion of
legislative bodies upon -them. Instead of allowing cir-
cumstances their due weight, they were called on to tie
up their bands, and put it out of their power to legislate
at all. The Bon. Member talked of the spinning-jenny
and steam-engine being abstract propositions ; he was
not aware that either of them made their way into this
world as abstract propositions. He thought they were
the result of labour and invention, perfected by men who
studied, and followed Nature, according the guide of cir-
cumstances. That was the principle on which he should
wish to proceed. The doctrine sought to be laid down
extended to all commercial treaties. He denied that no
case could arise in which it might not be desirable to
make a remission of revenue duty, without depending on
the contingency of concessions made by foreign Powers.
The Hon. Gentleman appeared to assume that because,
as he said, he would gain his result in another shape, as
in the case of Russia, from the shape in which it would
be obtained in the case of India or America, that there-
fore it was a perfect matter of indifference in what shape
it was obtained. He (Mr. Gladstone) admitted that the
trade with Russia was beneficial to the country, but that
it would be more beneficial if their tariff, instead of being
almost restrictive, was more liberal. It was a great
mistake to exclude from their view the purposes for
which the commercial treaties had been completed. The
Methuen treaty was a case in which the manifest result
was, that they paid in hard money for real or supposed
political advantages. The treaties entered into during
the last two years had not been entered into
with a view of establishing permanent systems of dif-
ferential duty. It had always been plainly avowed that
the reductions would be extended to other countries.
The negotiation with France five or six years ago was
not undertaken merely with reference-to Sheffield and
woollen goods. He believed the object was to break
down the system. Let them watch the use of the
means as much as they pleased, but let them not take
from the Government the means of doing what, in
given circumstances, would be a powerful instrument in
producing a favourable change in commercial legisla-
tion. Unless the Hon. Gentleman could show that it
was immaterial to this country whether other countries
with which we dealt should have prohibitive systems or
not—unless he could show that the treaty with Brazil
had been injurious to our trade, and that the treaty en-
tered into with France had been injurious—he had no
right to call on the House, in language perfectly clear
and perspicuous, to affirm each and every one of
those propositions which he (Mr. Gladstone)
had mentioned. He, therefore, called on the
House to reject the motion, and to affirm
the principles of common sense, that if a commercial
treaty was to be attended plainly with advantage it
should not be refused in consequence of the Hon. Gen-
tleman's proposition. He again called on the House to
reject the motion, and not to tie up their hands for the
future, and shut the country out from the possibility of
availing itself of advantages which might hereafter
offer.

Lord HOWICK had heard with satisfaction much of
what had been said by the Right Hon. Gentleman. His
Hon. Friend who made the motion did not more clearly
show the impolicy and inconvenience of those negotia-
tions than the Right Hon. Gentleman himself.—
(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed,
with greater force and conciseness than he (Lord
Howick) could attempt that inconvenience and impolicy.
The only objection which the Right Hon. Gentleman
alleged to the motion, and in which he called on the
House to reject, was that there was a probability that a
case might arise when it would be desirable to enter
into a negotiation.—(Hear.) He (Lord Howick) con-
fessed that he was astonished to hear the Hon. Gentle-
man object to this motion on the ground that it was an
abstract one.—(Hear, hear.) Would the Right lion.
Gentleman inform him how anything could be less ab-
stract than this : that the House in the exercise of its
constitutional right should address the Queen, praying
her to exercise her prerogative in a certain manner, and
to state the reasons why they asked her to do so ? They
knew that the Government entered into negotiations with -
out the House having any control, and then they called
upon the House to give their sanction to what had been
done. What then could be more proper—what less abstract
than that the House should address the Queen on this
subject, and state their reasons for doing so. It was
the common, the proper, and the constitutional course
for that or for the other House to give advice to her
Majesty upon any subject which they might think justi-
fied or required such a step. The only question for them
to consider was this—is that advice proper on the present
occasion? He (Lord Howick) for one, was prepared to
argue that it was. It was impossible to compare the
language of the leaders of the great political parties in
this country, and not be surprised at the practical re-
sults of their legislation. In the abstract—that was in
their language—they were free-traders ; but in their
practice, they were complete restrictionists. Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite said, free trade -princii les were the
principles of common sense—they said they ought to
buy in the cheapest and to sell in the dearest Market.
Though this was thcir general cloctrine, ihey did their
best
Y. 7 enewillj9t ithe ITucountryconn with the
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most noxious and oppressive provisions. They laid
upon our various branches of national industry the
heaviest duties—duties which could be defended on no
grounds of necessity, and on no sound political or com-
mercial principles. What was the reason for such
conduct ? It was plainly this, that private interests
were enlisted against the public good. It appeared to
him, that the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ricardo)
was a motion calculated to be most eminently useful to
the country ; but it was calculated to bring before the
House, and the country, distinctly and separately from
other questions, the policy of insisting upon what were
terined• reciprocity concessions. If the House might
judge of their conduct, there really appeared to be very
slight grounds of difference between her Majesty's Go •
'eminent and those who supported the motion. The
supporters of the motion held that all restrictions in
trade were disadvantageous ; and that restrictions by
other countries were just as disadvantageous as those in
thii country. Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite held
that it was injudicious to maintain high duties, and there-
by punish ourselves because other nations did so. No
man had avowed that opinion more strongly than
the Right Hon. Baronet himself did in his speech when
he introduced the tariff. So far they were entirely
agreed, and the only difference between them was re-
duced to this, first as to the expediency, even for a
short time of submitting to the inconvenience of restric-
tion upon our own trad, in the hope of getting other
countries to join with us in taking off the restrictions they
imposed, and next as to what would be the best course
to pursue for the purpose of placing the trade between
this country and the other nations of the world upon
that footing .which all agreed was desirable that it should
be Owed. Now it appeared to him that if they ad •
mitted that it was inexpedient to punish ourselves by
high duties, because other nations imposed high
duties on our produce, it was hardly possible to
avoid the conclusion that it was necessary at once to
make the change ; because time was a very material
element in this case. If they admitted that the system
was punishing themselves, and that it was unwise per-
manently to continue it, he could not conceive how
they could reject, even for a day, that relief which was
available to them, and which would better the population
of this country. He could not conceive how they could
do this under the vague expectation that by main-
taining the system they would get other countries to
join them in the establishment of perfect freedom. It
appeared to him that this must be a mistake, arising
from misconception as to the relative importance of re-
striction upon our imports and exports. Her Majesty's
Government seemed still, with all the advances they had
made in the doctrine of free trade—they still seemed
not entirely to have shaken off the old notion, that it
was the export trade that was the most advantageous,
and that what was long ago called a favourable balance
of trade was desirable. It was no iv nearly three-
quarters of a century since that theory was exploded
by every educated man ; yet something of this opinion
still hung on the minds of statesmen, and still seerned
to be the governing influence of the conduct of nations.
We still seemed to think that the exports were really
the most advantageous. Now he entirely concurred
with the Hon. Gentleman behind him, that the real
value of trade lay in the imports, and not in the exports.
—(hear.) The first question to be considered was,
what amount of goods they were able to obtain for the
consumption of the population.—(Hear, hear.) The
export trade was no doubt important, but it was 60 only
as a means by which they were enabled to obtain their
imports. It was a most extraordinary course of policy
that they should refuse to receive imports because they
were not quite certain that there would be no difficulty
hereafter in providing the means of 'Payment. Now he
would ask whether that difficulty had been particularly
felt hitherto?—(Hear, hear.) It was enough to state
that for a considerable time we had been carrying on
what was called a triangular system of trade, by means
of the smuggler. The greater facility they gave to the
introduction of foreign goods into this country it was
clear that a corresponding extension of the export trade
must follow. That was a truth which seemed to him to
rest upon the most obvious principles of the commonest
arithmetic. For his part he did not deny that extrava-
gant duties existed in foreign countries, and he thought
that by such duties those nations not only obstructed
the progress of civilisation, but also prevented them-
selves from benefiting by ie produce of other nations.
—(Hear, hear.) It was in that sense only that he be-
lieved those duties were injurious to us. The grounds
for such a cause of policy therefore appeared to him to
be almost inconceivable. In considering this question
he had derived considerable advantage from the state-
ments of Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and he thought
lie (Mr. Gladstone) had stated the grounds for antici-
pating what would be the result of commercial treaties.
Ile (Lord Howick) would appeal to experience upon
this subject. Ever since the termination of the war
we had been engaged in one unceasing course
of negotiations. We had lost no opportunity.
Our ablest Ministers at home and abroad—
Mr. Canning, the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton
(Lord Palmerston), the Earl of Aberdeen, the Duke of
Wellington, the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir
Robert Peel), and some of the most distinguished men
this country ever produced, had, for a period of nearly
thirty years, been engaged in attempts to negotiate ad-
vantageous commercial treaties with other countries.
W hat had been the result ? Why, that at this time we
were no better off than at the beginning. Right Hon.
Gentlemen opposite themselves admitted that there was
a growing desire upon the part of foreign countries to
throw obstructions in the way of trade. What would
have b..en the-result if a different course of policy had
been pursued by Great Britain ? Suppose that at the
end of the war no negotiations of any sort had been
entered into—suppose we had commenced by reducing
all our duties to as low a point as revenue considerations
would allow. If that course had been taken in 1815—. if
they hid dealt on that principle with Brazilian sugar,
with Prussian corn, with Baltic timber—did they think
that they would have driven foreign countries to the ne-
cessity of adopting a commercial system of so exclusive
a character as they had ? He believed no man would
contend that such would have been the case.—(Hear.)
Although this course had not been pursued hitherto, it
was nut too late to adopt it now. Let them teach other
countries by example, not by precept.—(Hear, hear).
That would be the practical result of the motion of his
Hon. Friend. It was not an abstract proposition, but
was one eminently calculated to be useful to the country.
The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Gladstone)
admitted the general impolicy of commercial negotia-
tions, but he said " Do not tie up the hands of the Go-
vernment, for it is not probable"—(The Right Hon.
Gentleman knew it was not probable)—" but it is pos-
sible, that a case may arise in which we may be able to
conclude advantageous commercial treaties." The
Right Hon. Gentleman then referred to examples, and the
first to which he adverted was a treaty in 178, with
France. He (Lord Howick) did not question the advan-
tage of that arrangement. Although he was a great ad-
mirer of Mr. Fox; he must admit that, as a commercial
Minister, Mr. Pitt was superior to him ; but he (Lord
Howick) believed that if the treaty of 1787 had not been
entered into the result would have been more beneficial
to this country. If we had 'then adopted a liberal po-
licy, and had left France to follow our example had she
pleased, at this moment the beneficial effects of such a
course would have been visible. The Right Hon.
Gentleman's next example was the treaty with Brazil.
Now the Right Hon. Gentleman himself was obliged to
admit that, in point of fact, that treaty with Brazil gave
her no commercial advantages, as they were called,
while it required a great deal of her in order to secure
our p!itical Countenance. That he (Lord Howick)
thought was the strongest condemnation of the treaty
that could be found.—(Hear.) He firmly believed
that if, instead of driving this hard bargain with
Brazil—if, instead of doing that, they had liberally
admitted her produce, and shots n her the same poli-
tical countenance, only giving in return what, accord-
ing to the opinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, was
little better than a bribe—if they had given freely their
political countenance, and admitted her produce, he
believed they would have obtained greater commercial
advantages than they had enjoyed from that time to
this. Ile believed that now, in the year 1844, there
would have been no reason to apprehend that Brazil
would impose differential duties with respect to our
commodities. lie believed that they would not have
had to apprehend that Brazil would impose a duty of
40 per cent. on British commodities. But further than
thi,- lie said that he was prepared to tie up the hands of
the 'Government on this point, and he was prepared to
lay down a rule, that commercial treaties ought not to
be entered into. He would do this in such a manner, as
to show to foreign nations that this country did not
merely disclaim any attempt to enter into treaties
which they thought they could not get but in such a
manner as to show that there was a bona fide pre-
ference of the principle of dealing largely and
liberally with all the nations of the world. If they
acted on that principle—it they said we want no com-
mercial treaties—we want no stipulations with foreign
countries as to the rates of duty to be levied on our
goods, bid we will proceed at once to adjust our duties
with regard to the financial interests of this country—
if they did this, he (Lord Howick) was persuaded that
the result would be, that the trade of this country
would make such an immediate spring, and such an ex-
tension of our present export trade would ensue—he
did not say at once, but in the course of a very few
years—that other nations would see the wisdom of fol-
lowing our example. He believed that the feeling which
now influenced the conduct of foreign countries, which
had been so graphically described by the Right Hon.
Gentlemar, would no longer be called into play. The
monopolyinterests in foreign countries—the iron
interest of France, for instance—would no longer be
enabled to enlist, in support of that monopoly, the
angry passions of a great portion of the com-
munity, The commercial policy of foreign coun-
tries would be so influenced, that in a very
short time—in the course, he believed, of a
very few years—the practical effect of their adopting the
policy which he recommended would be, that trade in
this country would be relieved of extravagant rates of
duty in foreign countries on our goods, which were now
levied. He asked thorn, was it a satisfactory answer to
them, now he wished to secure those great advantages,
by the adoption of a liberal, a generous, and a manly
system of commercial policy—now, when he wished to
secure those great advantages, was it a satisfactory
answer to him, fur the Right HOD. Gentlemen opposite
to say—" Don't tie up the hands of the Government.
It is not probable, but it is possible, that the case may
arise when we may conclude some commercial treaty ;
and, for the sake of that possibility, surrender those large
and great advantages we have now in our power to
secure ?" lie (Lord Howick) said that the adoption of
that e.ddress to the Queen, by the House, would be a
most important step with reference to the civilization of
the world at large—(Cries of " Hear, hear")—it would
be a pledge in the face of Europe and 'the world, that
this, the first commercial nation in the universe,
was determined to give up her narrow and restricted
system of commercial policy. It would be a pledge
binding upon them in future time, and therefore it would
give confidence to foreign countries, and furnish a
strong inducement for them to follow our example.

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The motion of the Hon, Membeillil4gticitWeilaky
well-timed; first, because it was introduced when the
long protracted negotiations with the four great com-
mercial nations had utterly and lamentably failed—nor
was there any prospect of these negotiations being re-
sumed with success. Now the ground was clear before
them—they had given a trial of thirty years to one sys-
tem of policy. Let them give as fair and as long a trial
to the system proposed ; but he was convinced it would
prove eminently successful before a fourth part of that
period had expired.—(Hear. hear.) But the motion was
well-timed in another sense, because it was impossible for
any man to look around him and behold the present state
of the country without being convinced of the urgent ne-
cessity there existed for the extension and improvement
of commerce. It was true the distress was not as
great as it had been two years ago. He was happy to
believe that trade had revived to a great extent—that
there was, in some measure, a return of commercial
prosperity ; but no man, who looked deeply into th©
condition of the country, would say that it was sistls..
factory. Were not the rate of wages and the profits
of capital ruinously low ? That the profits were low
was proved by the measure which the Right Hon. Gen..
tieman . the Chancellor of the Exchequer had brought
forward a few evenings ago. Ile agreed in the approba -
tion which had been bestowed on the measure for the.
reduction of the Three-and-a-Half psr Cents, but the
high prices of the funds, which caused the introduc-
tion of that measure, must be regarded as any-
thing but satisfactory. The high prices of the: funds
proved that there was great difficulty in finding the
means of profitable investment for capital.—(Hear.)
When there was a low rate of profit there was a low
rate of wage,. The Hon. Member for Stockport had
adverted, a few even;ngs ago, in the course of his bril-
liant and unanswerable speech, to the low rate of wages
in the agricultural districts of the south of England,
and he v ry properly observed, that he threw no blame
on the employers.—(Hear, hear.) He said the low rate
of wages did not depend on the will of the einlaoyee,
but on causes far deeper. That was his (Lord liowick's) -
opinion too. The same state of things had existed some
years ago, and the cause was admirably described by the
lamented Mr. Huskisson, who said it arose from the great
pressure on the springs of productive industry, The
same state of things existed now from the same cause.—.
(Hear, hear.) It was the great pressure on the springs
of productive industry that caused the low -wages of the
Dorsetshire labourers, and the miserable earnings of the
1 London semptresses.—(Hear, hear.) The Rigt Hon.
Baronet told them last night that wages and profits were
1
I ground down to so low a state that they could not afford
to make any restriction in the hours of labour, even in
protecting females from over eNertion, which, in the all.
stract, was most desirable. That pressure on the springs
of productive industry arose now as then from a defi-
ciency in the field for the employment of labour and of
capital, It was their restrictive laws which prevented
that field from being enlarged_it was , these laws that
kept down profit and labour to the lowest point. And,
therefore it was those restrictive laws which it should
be the first object of every man to get rid of. As one
of the most important steps towards accomplishing that
object, he should concur with his Hon. Friend in laying
down the rule that they should not unite for what was
termed reorprocity of concession from foreign countries,
but ought at once, trusting that other nations would
follow our example, (eke into serious consideration tlis
means of consistently, and upon general principles, re-
ducing the rate of Custom duties as far as revenue pur-
poses would allow them.—(Loud cheers.)
Sir J. HANMER, after complimenting the Noble
Lord on the ability and force of his speech, said he
could not agree in the principles enumerated by the
Noble Lord. He thought this country should not be
altogether indifferent to commercial negotiations, and he
thought to them it owed much of its greatness. Why should
we allow corn and cotton to come free from the banks or
the Mississippi to our ports, whilst they maintained
their present high tariff; or what guarantee had this
country that America, or the European States would
renounce their import duties, some of which were al--
most prohibitory, if we adopted ever so liberal and uts—
restricted a system? This Government should not be
indifferent to the reciprocity of concession. A great
authority, Lord Ashburton, had declared in 1833, when.
presenting the great petition from the merchants of
London, that reciprocity was by no means to be disre-
garded.—(Hear.) He was quite as anxious as Hon.
Members opposite to extend the trade of this country,
and promote its commercial prosperity, but lie did not
think the course at present proposed would have a ten-
dency to affect those objects, and he should therefore op-
pose it,

Mr. HUME said it must be very gratifying to the
House to learn that the Hon. Member was desirous or
extending the commerce of this country. He thottOt:
neither the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the (to-
vernment, nor the Right Hon. Gentleman the President;
of the Board of Trade, had—judging from their argu-
ments—read the motion of his Hon. Friend, for not
one point adduced by him, he thought, had been answered
by them. The Hon. Member was about entering into
some financial details, to prove the injury which those
restrictions inflicted upon the commerce of this country,.
when,

An HoN. MEMBER moved that the House be counted,
and only thirty-nine Members being present, the House
adjourned at a Quarter to Eight o'clock.

GREAT MEETING at COVENTRY.
COVENTRY, MARCH 18.—The proceedings which took
place here to-day were in everyway of an important and
impressive character, whether as regards the case of
Mr. O'Connell, the cause of Ireland, or the vindication
of great public rights.
The meeting was held in St. Mary's II:01, which.
though crowded in every part, did not appear sufficion.r.
to accommodate the great numbers who attended; awl
the consequent pressure of such an assemblage, within
a space so comparatively small, as regarded the num—
bers, produced considerable confusion at one period of;
the meeting.
At one o'clock Mr. O'Connell arrived, and was ro.
ceived with immense cheering, the whole mectting
rising and continuing to repeat their plaudits for aeverai
minutes.

T. B. TROUGHTON, Esq. (the town-clerk) read the
requisition, after which
J. S. WITTEM, Esq., (the mayor), was called to the
chair by acclamation. His Worship said, as it was the
first occasion on which he was called to preside over a
meeting of this description since his accession to
he should feel it necessary to state that he felt it his duty
to listen to the free expression of opinion upon the part
of his fellow-townsmen, and he should be very happy to?
afford them every facility for addressing the meetung..
He could not allow this opportunity to pass without ex-
pressing his deep sympathy with the sufferings of the.
Irish people, and his sincere desire that Englishmen.
would unite in their exertions to render the union betwe
England and Ireland not a parchment union solely,
but a union of feeling and affection, based upon ttie pro-
sperity of both nations.—(Cheers.)
The Rev. Mr. Gonnox then proceeded to address the
meeting ; but, after a few sentences, during which his
voice was very indistinctly heard in the Hall, there were
loud cries from persons at a distance that they could not
hear him. In order to obtain a better position for hear-
ing, a movement took placo towards the platform, and
this, by pressing on those in front, caused considerable
inconvenience, and produced amongst a large number a
desire to adjourn to the open air, as the meeting was so,
numerous. The confusion created by these occurrence&
lasted for a considerable period, and was prolonged by a
few individuals who evidently came for the purpose of
availing themselves of the inconvenience that the pres-
sure at such a meeting must necessarily create, to pro-
duce noise and disorder. Mr. O'Connell endeavoureti
to induce those in the body. of the meeting to keep their
places, but the pressure and inconvenience were so great
that it was difficult, for a long time, to obtain order. At
length, the excitement having been, in some degree,
allayed, the Mayor came forward, and assured the
meeting that, as soon as possible after the restoration of
silence, Mr. O'Connell would address them. Order was
immediately restored, and preserved throughout
remainder of the proceedings, during which the
..,incon-
veniences of the,crowded meeting were submitted to vitt ta
the greatest good humour.
Mr. GORDON then moved the first resolution; 'which
was as follows :—" That this meeting records its mutt-
pathy with the grievances, both civil and eccltsiastical„
which a long course of misgovernment has inflicted upon
the sister-kingdom of Ireland, and pledges itself to every
g-
legal exertion for the purposes of obtairling for that kin
-
dom measures of redress, based upon, the principle of ex-
tending complete and equal justice to all classes and sects
seconded by of her Majesty's subjects."
The resolution was Mr. HANNELL, and
carried unanimously.
The Rev. J. SIBREE proposed the next resolution,
which was—" That this meeting hereby expresses its
deep sense of the injustice involved in the late trial of
Daniel O'Connell and others for conspiracy, believing
that both as to the principles on which it was founded,
and the manner in which it was conducted, it was a vio-
lation of the constitutional liberties of the people of this
realm."

It was seconded by Mr. ATKINS, and carried by ac-
clamation.

Mr. BUCKNEY, in an excellent speech, proposed that
a petition, embodying the resolutions, should be adopted
by the meeting for presentation to Parliament.
The resolution was seconded by Mr. Alderman SMITH,.
and unanimously agreed to.
Mr. O'CoIoTELL then came forward to the front of the
platform,. and was received with an unanimous burst of
approbation, quite equal in warmth and cordiality of
feeling to those which greeted him at Birmingham and
Covent-garden. The Hon. and Learned Gentlenuri
said—The Rev. Gentleman who spoke last:told you, with
much eloquence and some comicality, that E was already
sentenced, and that my punishment was to be sent
to Coventry. Why, I am free to confess that, at one•
time to-day, I was inclined to believe that it might:
be looked on as a punishment to be sent to Co—
ventry, and during some anxious moments I inigl-m
have been disposed to have regretted that I male.
here? Why do I allude to this circumstance now? I
do so, because I wish more strongly to express the. de—
light with which I view this unanimous expression
your feelings, which is evinced by the meeting now
before me.—(Great cheering.) lam not influenced in
this delight and satisfaction by any paltry, personal
motives ? No—l am influenced
dbyo n
foatr
appearhiglier haenrd4.l
nobler motives.—(Hear, hear.)
did not come here as an individual merely repre-
senting my own opinions—no, I come here as the re-
presentative of the people of Ireland, which is evinced
by the meeting now before me, for it shows that any
casual occurrence which took place could not be viewed
as an indication of a want of sympathy with the,
people of Ireland.—(Loud cheering.) Ido not appear,-
here—l did not come here as an individual represent=ng
only his own views and opinions. No, I came hern
tuated by higher, and better, and far nobler niotiws
came here as the representative of the people a Ireland.
I same here as the advocate of my fellow-countryw
.en, and.
not as the advocate of my private interest.-.J Cheers.)