The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-15 00:00:00

IRISH REGISTRATION BILL

An HoN. MEMBER inquired when the Irish Registra-
tion Bill would be brought forward?—(Laughter.)
Sir R. PEEL said he must bring forward the Bank
Resolutions on Monday, and, as we understood, it was
not likely that the Irish Registration Bill would come on
before the holidays.
Mr. FERRAND said that the Right Honourable
Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) had, on the previous evening,
quoted a document which set forward the claims of the
coal miners during their unfortunate strike. As he
was informed that that document also set forth their
grievances, which were of the most oppressive kind, he
wished to know whether the Right Hon. Baronet had
any objection to lay it on the table of the House ?
Sir R. PEEL said he believed it was not consistent
with the forms of the House to lay on the table a hand-
bill ; but he had a copy of the printed hand-bill from
which he quoted, and if the lion. Gentleman wished to
have it for the purposes of debate, he should be happy
to furnish him with it.—(Laughter.)

—Sir ROBERT PEEL postponed, till that day fort-
night, his motion for leave to introduce a Bill to define
and regulate certain rights of the Duchy of Cornwall.
EXTENSION OF THE SUFFRAGE.

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD, previous to bringing
forward his motion for leave to introduce a Bill to ex-
tend Parliamentary suffrage, and to secure the
free representation of the people, presented
petitions from Leicester, the Tower Hamlets,
and Leeds, signed by upwards of 10,000 per-
sons, in favour of his motion. The Hon. Gentleman
then proceeded to state, that on former occasions he had
brought before the House propositions similar to that
which he now advanced, and had entered into different
arguments in support of his views which he would not
then reiterate. He should only state his general views
on the question, and explain as shortly as he possibly
could, the principles he desired to see in operation. If
they considered the principle of all government,
they would find it to be that the great body
of the people gave up their natural rights, and
entrusted them to others to exercise them for the
benefit of all. This principle was consistent with
his proposition that every man should have a share in
the appointment of those who were to make the laws
which he was bound to obey. He would not
maintain universal suffrage in all its details,
but the principle of the Bill he would in-
troduce to the House was, that all male adults
of twenty-one years of age should be entitled to vote for
Members of Parliament ; but that principle should be
limited by registration laws, which should confine the
exercise of it to a residence within the locality where the
election took place. He would exclude from the right of
suffrage all those who were under sentence for any
crime, or who were insane, but he would have no class
of the community subjected to limitations to which every
other class was not. He would also propose a new ar-
rangement of the electoral districts, for he could not
think it fair representation, if a district having 100
voters should have as many representatives as a district
having 1,000 voters. His third proposition was the in-
troduction of vote by ballot. He considered it impossi •
ble to extend the suffrage with safety to the
people unless voting by ballot was also adopted ;
nor did he think that vote by ballot would be
safe unless it was accompanied by extended suffrage.
He had thus stated the three principles to which he
wished to draw the attention of the House ; first, the
extension of the franchise ; secondly, a new arrangement
of the electoral districts; and, thirdly, the vote by ballot.
He did not wish to trespass on the time of the House by
going into the detail of the argument which bore upon
those three points ; but he would read the petition
which he had formerly presented to the House from the
delegates at Liverpool, and which contained a summary
of those arguments. (The Honourable Member then
read the petition, but could not possibly be followed
correctly in the gallery.) Perhaps gentlemen might
admit the principles which he had alleged, and yet
differ from hien as tosome of the details ; and if so, they
ought not to object to going into a Committee, where
the details might be examined. The great body of the
people were, by the present system, excluded from the
representation, and the advocates of that exclusion should
show that it was wise, expedient, and just. He had been
challenged by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite io
say why he excluded females from universal suffrage.
But, although he did not include women in this measure,
he was not prepared to say that women should not in
some cases possess the suffrage. Ile did not think that
the working classes were represented in that
House or that their interests were sufficiently
attended to. Nor did he think that it was right to re-
fuse the franchise to a poor man, because he was poor and
unlettered. The poor man without learning was still
capable of judging of his own interest, and he was the
person who most required protection. To show that
the working classes required protection, he need only
refer to the recent divisions upon the Factories' Bill,
when the House of Commons twice decided by a ma-
jority, that women and children ought not to be required
to work in factories more that ten hours a day. Then
on a third division the same House divided that they
ought to work more than that time, and afterwards, on a
fourth division, by a large majority, that they ought to
work twelve hours. It was evident that in those divi-
sions the House had not acted as a body that represented
the working classes, whose almost unanimous opinion
had been expressed in favour of the measure; in fact,
the House was the representative of the Government
and not of the people. There were other points besides
those which he had enumerated, which were included
in the demand for full and fair representation. Amongst
them was the reduction of the duration of Parliaments.
No man could say that there could be free representa- 1
tion so long as Parliament sat for so many years. lie

was aware that many sincere Reformers disagreed set 4;
the extent of the reduction which should be made, but
all agreed that there should be some reduction.
would not say that there could be no due representation,
for the people unless all these points were carried, bt!,/,
in bringing this question before the House he had fea
it his duty to state what the demands of the people ware.
That House relied on its power as a means of resisting
popular rights; but he warned Honourable Members
that there was an amount of discontent existing
which would lead to effects of the most disastrou:
nature on the constitution of the country, and ee
society at large, if the grievances of the people
redressed. It was not his intention to trespass at ei
further length on the attention of the House. He '!s
already stated that those who voted for the introduction
of the-Bill would not thereby be considered as pledgini
themselves to its details. The Hon. Member conclud
by movinc, for leave to bring in the Bill. were not
Dr. BO WRING said he had great pleasure in second:
ing the motion of his Hon. Friend. He thought that 11
that moment especially, when great discontent alert;
among the people, those who looked at public opinion
the only safe foundation for general legislation, werh;
bound to give some evidence that they were willing
allow it to have due influence upon the deliberations v;
that House. He believed that public opinion sometimes
erred—he believed that it had erred greatly on a late v‘'
casion—but he thought that the greatest adrantesi.
would be derived from allowing public opinion to hes
on the discussions of that House. He did not see
flux
because a man had a little less of the good things 0'
life, he should not have a voice in the representatiot
of the country. The State took care to take
of his earnings for its support, and he ought, there
to have a voice in it. Concurring in the general view of
Hon. Friend, he willingly seconded the motion. A the
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and
House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion 3l
Against it
Majority against the motion -66k
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE postponed to this day wef,v--
motion relative to the petition of Charles Price and
„to" •
White Thompson, complaining of the conduct of ea"—
Magistrates of arwick.
COMPENSATION TO OFFICERS IN CB

CERY.
rOl
Mr. WATSON presented a petition from eto
solicitors against granting compensation for salsrl
officers in the Court of Chancery.
oti°ll
The Hosr. MEMBER thee brought forward the Iss„ to
of which he had given notice, for a Select Committ'sbe
inquire into the orders for compensation made el, 01
Lord Chancellor to the persons filling the offiee's
clerk of the enrolments, comptrollers of the has,
1),d40,
riding clerk, six clerks, sworn clerks, waiting eSnst
agent or record keeper in the Court of Chancery, t‘ios
the Act 5 and 6 Vic., c. 103 ; and to inquire into the A.
ture, duties, and emoluments of those officers beforero's
passing of that Act, and their right to compensfor
(and if any, to what amount) during their life, asu
seven years after the death of such person ; and to
Of
quire into the circumstances attending the Pas';7oo
that Act, and the moneys charged on the suitors ir
fund in Chancery, for passing that Act ; and also t°,oo
quire into the taxation of suitors in courts of law sad
equity, and the application of moneys raised therelsysso
the propriety of continuing the same. The annual,'7,st
paid for compensation under the above-mentioneaLs.
was 78,0001. Out of the six clerks to whom coupe td
tion had been awarded, only one was ever found neeeisserss
to be in attendance on the courts. It was to the
of the six clerks he wished particularly to call attesrss
They were in number 60, and they had little or n° the
to do. In fact they were rather an obstruction to_Aoi
course of justice. The business of the clerks depend; st,
the solicitors who employed them ; and, besides, .9
the Chancellors had the power of altering the lord
they willed. They were cut down in 1785 hY,...scite,
Chancellor Jeffery, afterwards by Lord Har°"ier
and again by Lord Erskine—and the most sot
portant fee which they received was, in 1828,.400,
off by Lord Lyndhurst. In 1840, Mr. Pei:libel-sr
a distinguished member of the Chancery bar_taH,i.
dared in the House that the system of fees was in, ed
tous and enormous, and that the suitors were coterear,
to pay to those officers no less than 59,8621: in a Yitte
for doing absolutely nothing. The only real duty °bap
six clerks was to transmit to the solicitors for %ail
they acted any notices that were entered in court, 000 s
the fees upon that alone amounted to Ito,
Such having been the nature of the ujos ?
what was the ground of the -comPeasi' jog
Mr. Getty had awarded to him for compensation, asinted
as he lived, the sum of 5,4281. He was also aPltsare
taxing master, with 2,000/. a year.—(Hear.) He the They
received 7,4281. without any deduction whatever.
ssiss
there were others who received 5,000/. a year es iie
pensation for their office, and one of them was, Wisugh.)
2,700/. a year for seven years after his death.--(1"
Neither the naval nor military service received an)? ref,
like such amounts. He put it to the Right Hon. 13412°, be
who wielded the destinies of this country, whetsla tO
received such a sum ?—(Hear, hear.) He aPPe'"'" sof
the Chair. Did the representative of the Commokis
England receive such a sum ? He put it to Poo
Members whether, after various charges, as/
of them had a clear rental of 7,0001. aye
—(Hear, hear.) The poor unhappy suitors 11,00
pay an increased taxation in order to make up
enormous salaries and compensations. But the Jiro
however, in its liberality, not only compensated the bit
clerks, but their agents received three-fourths of "cry
they had received previously. One of these agents A A
ceived 900 e a-year. There was what was eillwa;
waiting clerk, who received 5001. a-year. There "714.
clerk of the six elerks who received 1,935/. R' daft
whilst out of office. In fact all the flesh and blood
was found in Chancery-lane was compensatertsia
(Laughter.) He had been very anxious to aseesebad
how the Bill had passed through Parliament, and ," sred
referred to the journals for that purpose. It aPrisser
it was hurried through at a railroad pace. (The Hon' se.)
ber then read an extract from the journals of the '0" slid)
There never was a Bill forced through the H°lsetho4,
so much indecent haste ; and, two days after votive'
reading in the House of Lords it received the boa
so
assent. No Bill had ever passed through Parlittsioaj
rapidly. He did not impute any acts of core airlss
what he imputed was acts of omission, in not Moor
into the nature, amount, and appl l'ijosication of the efogilA
sation. The Bill was introduced in the month of 5e
just at the very time the law Members of the he COsii
rs
of Commons went on circuit.—(Hear, hear.) c's
pensation was not made upon an average of the b-bot
those clerks for the last six years, or ten Yea:site's°
the last three years. This Act of Parliament, /el
pared with other acts of compensation, would se,eiteseir,
extraordinary indeed. It was most unfair an'sts/P-
-that the funds placed to the credit of the seefu .ast,
general in Chancery, and which, for the most 1;01°
longed to minors, and infants, and females, 911.? eler Al°
taxed for the compensation of the fees of these s'o,
and other sinecurists. And it certainly did sessuje eon
,
strange and unjust proceeding, that not only 7of Ire
pensation to those persons should be p sae aid °l/-a%t
fund, but also the very expenses of passing this Fat
through Parliament.—(Cries of "Hear, lielf.,idt Ar
this the charge of 3391. was made to 10 gese"-es
he had already said, out of the fund of tatogew,i
im ls
fenceless persons, who were, of course, d?
at the mercy of the Court. There were two iseScji
Chancery—one called the Suitors' Fee Fund, d sviii
e
from suitors in the Court of Chancery,
:9 issn'ss
amounted, in the year 1842, to 62,0001. Lill oair" of
153,0001. There was another fund, called ttesnass
Fund, which consisted of unclaimed dirodhtrist
which there was a sum of 2,800,0001. Ni stoe-si
both these funds the enormous sum of 27,;:ise eats
suitors' fees were deducted. It was the hottiorgelsto
of the Lord Chancellor to investigate these tf 000 she
his and to see that the funds which said she
his Court were not malappropriated. It was aot,er
Lord Chancellor had no power, but such lee 'he
case—he possessed the power, and he should_ kiting
cised it. He was sure the House, thought rksßerty
in favour of some compensation to these six a1e,5001.41),
life, would think it rather extravagant to ;heir cf,v7oo,
pension to their families for seven years after refleevisct
Neither would Hon. Members, after a ,Web thiS har
be at all satisfied with the manner in Wmcoico, iste
passed, without deliberation, without disconeirLsed
riedly, and evidently with a view to avoid Isle t'sea
its objects until inquiry might be useless•
for'tbeir,
the House would grant the inquiry he s°,ll:oo3etoassela
if so, he felt convinced that such facts woul",:gnent'wers
knowledge that the repeal of this Act of Pars therevaad°'
speedily ensue. It was well known that Fee s•aystig
Exchequer „f (10
what were termed Bankruptcy tesa fes"
Now, he did not think it right that the sYssf• sbesewstlf
or pensioning the officers of the Court out had Planitas
he
should be continued. They ought, as nind. stire'
said, to be paid out of the Consolidated x jt!
ought not to be mulcted. There should be,S,...sata.hoss;
Mr. Pemberton Leigh—no mean authoV iniettise
present system of fees was enormous ,a;,,stild,
_ w
and the House in acceding to this nsotitLicheers'i
one great step in favour of cheapjnsti edilt:ll
Mr. JERVIS seconded the motion.
_spas alio
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL gave Nausesi
deft the
his Hon. and Learned Friend for the
rthe de!... the
exhibited in collecting these details, and,7oo, ford
and address he had used in placinVon. Pa !'cl-
House; but he complained that the _
shoidbas
Gentleman could stopped short when neon' ndenislfroard
vanced, because advance would have brought 7 se"'
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman ha
ht maul f °ojli„it:
very serious charges, but he thoug
rther °- sass
could not be sustained; and be waS fu..stify tbe,sotle-
that he could make out a case fully toe `Loved `fstireli
in resisting the motion of the Hon. nn stated he Honey
man. In some things which had been that tha_tos
concurred. He thought, for
lithceuthe ejsolishe;
of the offices connected wueht t° be :hos° sli
I
Chancery were sinecures, and 0 done by
edings
oft
From the year 1688 nothing was
to the Pr°c„,e e of ibtbs
clerks beyond signing their names to
erformas's 0 mow t
the Court of Chancery, and to the
taking
90.01:0
duty they attended in rotation,
arranger:,sbers, Ysi to
in his turn, according to an
inteu nsaite-
themselves. Those six clerks air ,
reDer WS3 coif
were called sworn clerks. Their of sbis4ned
sixty ; but at the time of the passingrose perri%nged
to
were only twenty-five bees- 'sae
in number. ;ssbally f •
which o
duties subsequent to 1688
f writSt fill
the six clerks, viz. the issuifnfheo
different Presort. tie,
ings, making office copies.o
solicitors 0 gave.,o
Chancery, and representing .
theY s's were e'v-
f those duties
performance o wh° the sworn
in
upon persons. • - for
and they devolvedmtinine masterly.
and the only duty re .
before • rs - agents,
attending olicito
office
clerks to perform was
of the s, their fsey
bills
Chancery to tax the
age °R.PYeu,,a seldt3ra+tenet
employed them. Those yithere wm• eitti4j of
practically for life, inasmuch from
from their
10, c of
prospect of their being removed
a,_„shed they
.tyys.ise
_ss
and when those offices were U""iroitted- ihingg
for compensation which were au
that state oioo'joisierso'Z
Parliament. Ile admitted that s _sod e bor.
abuse-that those officer two RCP
a great
fees for doing next to nothing,