The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-11 00:00:00

representation was acted upon, and the answer was, " I his opinion of Conway; said, " I think he is a very tali
consented with very great reluctance—(Hear, and man." So of theme Honaet, all that could be said, he be-
laugh•e,)—and I get the consent of the Treasury, but lieved, was, that it was a very large building, for he de-
they object-d very much." Here, then, were these two nied that it had anything either of beauty or utility
reluctant departments driven into increased expenditure about it; 200,0001. were voted for ventilation, and yet
in consequence r f the suggestions of the Hon. Member, .they lately heard an Honourable Member declaring
who now was desirous to cut down the vote. It would that the air was so mephitic that it was quite pm-
have been better if the Woods and Forests and the possible to breathe in the division lobbies.
Treasury had been able to resist the fascinations or in- —(Hear, hear.) Mr. Barry and Dr. Reid were to go
• flueuce of the Hon. Member. There was, however, hand in hand with regard to ventilation, and
!some excuse for them, because when Lord Besborough what had been the result? Why, they had not spoken to
was asked whether Hr. Hume stated that as his own each other for the last six years —(Heer, and laughter.)
opinion, or the general ()Pinion of the Committee, he Three different systems were now in progress. They
said it was the general opinion of the Committee, parboiled the House of Lords, and in the. House of Cora-
1, Mr. HUME—Where was the Chairman? mons they were going to keep the whole of the Country
Sir R. PEEL —Teen went on to say—" Mr. Hume party in these lobbies.—(Hear, hear.) He believed it
• was not the chairman, was he?" which showed how ica- was a design on the part of the Chancellor of the Ex-
proper the conduct of the Hon. Member was.—(Hear, chequer.—(Great laughter, in which the Chancellor of
and laughter.) He was really sorry to make these dis- the Exchequer himself joined.) The other day Mr.
closures, and would have willingly avoided it if the lion. Barry seas asked whether those enormous boilers were
Member would have allowed him. The answer to the to be kept in the court-yard, but he refused to give an
question was, " Mr. flume was not the chairman of the answer. He believed the fact to be that they were going
Committee, but I think he said he was stating the to boil the Committee-rooms.—(Laughter.) They had
• opinion of the majority of the Committee."—( Mr. Hume three different plans of ventilation, and only one had
made a gesture of dissent.) At all events he was now succeeded—namely, the system adopted in the present
quoting from a Parliamentary document, for the purpose House. It was said to be totally impossible to ventilate
of showing that Mr. Barry must not be charged with all the new House, in consequence of the side doors leading
these alterations. Complaint had been made of the into the lobbies. The question, he repeated,was not as to
mode in which the divisions were taken in the new passing a vote of censure on the Fine Arts Commission, but
House, and he certainly thought that adopted in the of suspending it, and if the suspension were sine die he
present House preferable; but for this Mr. Barry was himself would be quite as well pleased. They were paying
not responsible, for a Committee was appointed in 1836 2,000/ because the Sergeant-at-Arms' house had not been
to consider the principle on which the new House of built. The question lay in a nutshell; finish the House
Lords and the new House of Commons should be con- first, and ornament it afterwards. With respect to a
strutted, and they expressed an opinion that the new Committee, after what had been said by the Chancellor
House should not tie so long as the present one. In his of the Excbequer and the Right Hon. Baronet the
opinion they made a mistake—(Hear, bear)—but, at Member fur Tamworth, he did not think they had any
quite free fromo blame in the great encouragement to place confidence in Committees.
all events, Mr. Barry was
matter. The Committee also expressly recommended The result was that they were building an execrably bad
that there should be an apartment on each side of the House, and unless their legislation were better than
House of Commons in which the divisions might he their House, the longer they continued where they were
taken; and therefore the House of Commons must take the better. He hoped the House would express a de•
its share of the blame, or rather it ought to take the whole cided opinion in favour of remaining in the present
blame. At the same time he thought the Chancellor of House until the other was in such a state that they
the Exchequer had acted very prudently in appointing could hear and sit at ease. He could not help wishing
; some of the most experienced Members to superintend that the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tarn-
'', any alterations. So much with regard to the House of worth, when he was enlarging upon the merits of the
Commons. He now came to the particular vote under Commission, had told them the artists whom they called
consideration. He feared the House was troubled with before them. He wished he bad told them how Mr.
a very short memory.—(Hear, hear.) If they thought Stanfield and Mr. Roberts both refused to paint in the
' that a more fit tribunal could be selected to superintend room proposed for them, and how, they were going to
the decoration of the Houses than the Commission, he, put some of Landseer's pictures in a chamber not so good
as one of its members, acknowledged their perfect as a billiard-room.
right to supersede it. If they chose to say that in Sir R. PEEL, in explanation, said the three artists
consequence of the disapprobation which they felt referred to by the Hon. Member for Middlesex were
at the delay which had taken place, or on certainly called before the Commissioners, whom they
account of the poverty of the country, the 3,0001, accompanied to the apartment destined to receive their
must be withheld, they had a perfect right to do so, and works. On viewing the room it was found that a number
he, as a member of the Commission, would be heartily of the panels destined to receive pictures were opposite
glad to be relieved from the duty of attending it, par- the light, but there were three compartments on which
ticularly if it were intimated that the' Commission the light was excellent—namely, those at the end of the
did not enjoy the confidence of the House. But no room. Pictures painted by the three artists were placed
step whatever had been taken either by the executive on the different panels, by way of experiment, and the
Government or the Committee which was not in con- Commission being of opinion that the panels oppositeithe
fortuity with the wishes and intentions of the House of light were not suitable ler paintings, did not give a corn.
Commons —(" Hear, hear," from Lord John Russell.) mission to Mr. Stanfield or Mr. Roberts, thinking that a
lie (Sir R. Peel) in 1841 recommended the appointment more suitable place might be found for the works,of
of the Committee, but he gave that advice in cense those distinguished artists. Mr. Landseer thought the
4aenceof a recommendation from the House of Commons, apartment not unsuited to the exhibition of that depart-
who appointed a Committee to consider whether it were ment of art in which he was himself, he ventured to say,
not fitting that the opportunity should be taken in the without a rival. He approved of the light, and in no,
construction of this magnificent building to promote the respect objected to the apartment. Of the liberality of
fine arts of this country. In 1841, during the Govern- Mr. Landseer he could not speak too highly, and what-
ment of Lord Melbourne, a Committee was appointed on ever sum was awarded to him for his services he was
the 6th of May for this Prime, and that Committee confident it would not be one-third of their real value.
carne to a unanimous report, and strange enough to say, All the Hon. Gentleman could say of the genius of Mr.
one of its Members, who came to this unanimous report Landseer he entirely agreed in—all he could say of his
With the view of compelling the Government, even liberality was entirely deserved; he believed there never
though it had been disinclined, to undertake the con- lived an artist of greater liberality than Mr. Landseer,
sideration of the subject, was the Honourable and he could assure the House that the selection of the
. . Member for Montrose.—(Hear, bear.) What did that panels was not made without his full and entire appro-
Committee recommend? They said they had ex- batten.
amined.several distinguished professors and admirers of Lord J. RUSSELL said the Hon. Member for Mid-
arts, wha were unanimous upon one point, that so im- dlesex had begun his speech by saying that the Right
portant a national work as the re-building of the two Hon. Gentleman opposite had not spoken to the ques.
Rouses of Parliament afforded an opportunity which tion, and that he had misled the House by speaking
ought not to be neglected of encouraging not only high upon a totally different question. But the fact was the
art, but every subordinate branch of art in this country, Right Honourable Gentleman (Sir Robert Peel) did
Inch- as the art of moulding and design in its most ex- address himself to the question, which, in fact, was,
tensive signification. The manufacture of ornamental whether the sum of money voted in Committee of Supply
brass work; and;an short, every art was interested in the should be assented to by that House for the purpose of
recommendation of the Committee. It was the House serving for the decoration of the now Houses, according
•Of Cemmons:that recommended that a Commission should to the suggestion of the Fine Arts Commission. Now
ne appointed to assist with information and advise some the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Middlesex did not
• department of the Government, which, after mature address himself to the question, because it was entirely a
consideration, should be solely responsible for the speech directed against Mr. Barry, and with regard to
execution of the plan best calculated to realise the the construction of the two Housei of Parliament.
objects of the Committee. The intention of Parliament According to his logic, and reasoning from his speech,
Was inferred to be, that a connected view should be there should be a vote of the House very much diminish-
taken of the decoration of these buildings, and corn- ing the sum to be given to Mr. Barry to carry on the
Missions given to artists in the same manner as in works, but not:interfering with the Fine Arts Commission,
former timeei the most magnificent palaces had been because he said he did not wish to throw any censure
decorated,- atrd- the finest- works of art produced. It on it. Strange to say, having occupied his speech with
Might be said, perhaps, that doubts might exist as to the Mr. Barry and the Houses, he concluded by saying that
employment of fresco painting, and some might think, every farthing asked by Mr. Barry should be
that though suitable to foreign tastes, it was not ono voted, and that the sum on account of the Fine
to which this country was habituated. But even here Arts Commission should not be voted. The
the Commission.did not act without understanding that it Hon. Gentleman said this was not a censure on the
was the wish of the House to give encouragement to that Commission, bat that every sum we could spare should
branch of art; for the House observed that fresco paint. be devoted to the completion of the buildings in the first
ing had been revived on the Continent, and employed in instance. If that was so they should vote at once the
the decoration of public buildings, particularly at Munich whole 154,0001. asked for by the Treasury, only declaring
----and that a vast national building was its peculiar that no part of it should be applied to the prosecution of
sphere. A.reneetion had• been cast on the selection made the decorations. The Hon. Gentleman, so far from af-
of .historical subjects ; but the Commission, up to that terwards maintaining that course, took away the whole
bight, had certainly been under the impression that in of the sum so voted for these paintings, and left the
. , this also they were adopting the recommendation, and of amount proposed neither increased nor diminished. The
acting in conformity with the expressed wishes of the Houses of Parliament would, therefore, not have one
goose, which the Crown was bound to respect, be cause farthing more allotted to them. They could not be pro-
it referred to the decoration of an edifice appropriated t., ceeded with a day sooner, nor could there be a day's
the House of Commons and the House of Peers ; and more work done in consequence of the Hon. Gentleman's
the Committee recommended the evidence taken before it vote.—(Hear, hear.) Then, after all that the Hoe,
to the favourable consideration of the Government, in the Gentleman said, it was when they had completed these
,bops that the new Houses of Parliament might hand buildings they ought to commence the decorations and
goWn to posterity a memorial as well of the genius of our works of art. Was not that completely departing from
artists, as of the importance attached by this country to the vote of the' House, which had unanimously clo-
the nobler productions of art, whether in painting cided that advantage should be taken of the build-
°r sculpture, which might serve to perpetuate the ing of the New Houses to promote the fine arts
events of our past history and the persons of our public in that country, and the Right Honourable Gentle-
benefactors in the grateful remembrance of the people.— man opposite advised her Majesty to appoint a Com-
(Hear, hear.) Suppose the Crown bad neglected to act mission to carry out that suggestion of the House of
On that recommendation, would not the House of Com- Commons. If they suspended the proceedings of that
mons have taken credit with artists and lovers of art for Commission—if they told the Commission that they
their good dispositions and intentions? But the Crown wished the money to be devoted to the building of the
had acted on their advice, and had appointed the Corn- House of Commons, the only consequence would be, that
,tivaion. He had heard nothing implying censure on the Commission could not, with any regard to their cha-
`go Fine Arts Commission. Everything was opened to ratters, undertake again to proceed with works which
~.iNnpetition, and prizes were given for the best works, the House would say by its vote they were not fit to go
Without any restriction. Three prizes of 500/. were on with.—(Hear, hear.) It would be tantamount to a
three of 3001., and three of 2001.; and the result vote that the Commission should be put an end to, and
484 been to bring to light the latent genius of this coup- it would be a departure from the original intention of
of whose existence they had been scarcely aware usin quest the New Houses for the promotion of the fine arts.
tefore; and amongst these were Pickersgill (not the Theion was not now as to the merits of Mr. Barry
ROYa Academician), Watts, and Armitage, to whom —the question was not whether a different or a less ex-
fet() awarded the three prizes of 5001. each; Frost, Pool, pensive plan should have been adopted, but whether the
e'leY, and others. Again, by whom were the historical unanimous recommendation of the House itself should
Vlsjects chosen? By a Committee consisting ofthePrince, not he carried out, and that after proceeding for six or
ho Marquis of Lansdowne, Lord J. Russell, Lord Mor- seven years they should now put an end to the decora-
rth, Lord Mahon, Mr. Macaulay, Sir R. Inglis, tions.—(Hear, hear.)
iN"IA Mr. Wyse. If they thought this a badly-selected Mr. HUME wished to say that, if the House would
nroittee, he did not complain of their withdrawing allow him, he would prefer withdrawing his amend-
them thepower with which they had been entrusted; ment, and substituting that for the appointment of a
„alit in doing so let them remember that they were Committee.
seinding the act, not of the Crown, but of the House The SPEAKER inquired whether it was the wish of
aCommons. He ought to inform the House of that the Hon. Gentleman to withdraw his amendment?
withdraw the power from the hands of the Commission, Mr. OSBORNE would not consent to the amendment
future
In the confidence that, not only in the present, but in being withdrawn.
years, the vote would bo maintained, they had Sir 14. PEEL—Am Ito understand that the Hoe.
'ejected artists of the highest eminence, and had given Gentleman is so convinced of the injustice and impro-
-1"en1 commissions—contingent, of course, on the votes propriety of his motion that he wishes it to be with-
Ong granted.—(Hear, hear.) With the view of se- drawn?ba
ating uniformity of design, the decoration of one Mr. AGLIONBY protested against such an interpre-
-1 enent had been entrusted to Mr. Herbert, an artist tation being put upon his Hon. Friend's words. Not a
tt_
4. no greeted eminence—of course, on the express un- word had fallen from the Hon. Member for Montrose to
~,vritanding that the discretion of Parliament was in no justify such an inference.
aaY fettered.—(Hear.) He was to commence a series of Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to the Hon
aaintinga for one particular apartment. Gentleman putting his motion in the terms he thought
kr. 13. OSBORNE—What apartment ? best, but when he was about to rise and say so the Hon.
H. PEEL believed it was the Peers' robing•room, Member for Middlesex interposed, and said he would
thuich had six or eight panels. If any one doubted not consent to it.
ee' genius of Mr. Herbert, he advised him to take an The House then divided, when there appeared—
irPortunity of seeing his magnificent picture of Lear. For the amendment (reducing the vote)... 62
t), .hoped the House of Commons would think with Against it ... a. 144
toal'r Committee that this country was interested in pro- Majority against it ... ...--82
oting the fine arts, aud that it would not be creditable Mr. HUME regretted he had been compelled to give
to the nation to permit this opportunity to pass without the House the trouble of dividing. He now moved that
tto 'ng advantage of it. If they thought that the Corn- the motion of which he had given notice, for the appoint-
teel4ion had abused its trust, and that the functions en- meet of a Committee, be adopted.
"teele to it would be better discharged by a Com- Lord J. RUSSELL said his Right Hon. Friend had
Ca-t
oee of the House of Commons, or by the House of already stated that in a few days a complete return
°amens itself, he for one, without complaint, would would be laid before the House, showing in detail the
a:lathe Commission extinguished, and would only hope whole of the expenditure, the causes of the excess, and
ter;" they would appoint a better tribunal for carrying the probable amount required to complete the buildings.
naa,thapurpose of the House of Commons, if such were Under these circumstances, he thought the Hon. Gen-
eiearpose, namely, to make the erection of this mag- tleman had better wait.
kr,Le o_ ceet structure conducive to the promotion of the fine Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said the House should be
a, (Cheers.) put in possession of the whole. state' of affairs with re
1147 B. OSBORNE wished to recall the attention of Bard to the New Houses. Could any Hone Member at
iarr ouse to the real question, and hoped it would not that moment say who was responsible for the enormous'
)1. 'r itself to be deluded by the fine .arts of the expenditure incurred? The Committee appointed by
'tlet tkeHonourable Baronet—(A laugh)—for of all the that House had no real and effectual control over the
eic,hes he had ever heard, not excepting those made expenditure. Ile should support the motion of the
4,„ the
Right 'Honourable Baronet while leading a Hon. Member for Montrose; and the main ground on
tar. party in that House, he never listened to which he should do so was, that it would afford them a
fta,_!nore carefully designed to draw away attention chance of finding some means of constituting some
la.'d„ the real point. They had heard how his Hon. effectual control over the great expenditure that had
4,at',1:1 the Member for Montrose, in a moment of weak- been going on for so long a period.
44, (Laughter)—had suggested that the Sergeant-at- Sir D. NORREYS said the great question for the
ta s should have a house, but let the House recollect House to consider was, whether, after all that vast ex-
itiktilbta) this very day no Part of the expense attending penditure, they had not made a most magnificent failure?
IN:at been ineurred.--(Hear, hear.) They bad also Was it not a fact that with regard to hearing, and with
atoo 3f the commission given to Mr. Herbert for years regard to the accommodation of the Members of that
4 co‘'lne to decorate a room, but what room the Right House, the new chamber was a great failure? He
tips' Baronet did not seem to recollect. The real ques- thought the great dciuble archway at the Victoria Tower
tailwas, not whether they should destroy the Fine Arts was an eyesore, and a disgrace to the country; and that
tiet,:ztissiou, but whether they should suspend its opera- the old historic recollections connected with the adjoin-
.'
-Nranand lay out the money which the Right Hon. ing Westminster Hall should have inspired the architect
Pleti 'lt Proposed to spend on monstrous frescoes in corn. with something more worthy the character of the great
Vot "g the building. It was all very well to meet and English people.
illgillwaY other people's money, to pass agreeable morn- Mr. ROEBUCK understood that there was a state-
lie ttild give orders to Mr. Herbert. The Right lion. ment to be laid before the House before the present.
eta Nt had accused the lion. Member for Montrose of money was expended. As to that House pretending to
opinion upon architectural designs it was per-
% 111,4gviatolerant of other people's criticisms, and accused give
ael.a intolerance of Earl Do Grey's opinions; but when fectly preposterous. What they should have done was,
tog that Noble Lord, one of the Commission, bandy- when the former House was burned down, to tell some
‘aaeh°,ltni_plinsents with Mr. Barry at a public institution, one man to build a House for the accommodation of the
lqata,ialug out an inducement to him to imitate the Members of the Legislature, and they would have suc-
e?tepV of Sir Christopher Wren, and spend 34 years in ceeded far better than they had done. With regard
/aka, !slang the building, be had some reason to cone- to the new House of Commons, it was impossible to form
tphile /iu,iyhat were Mr. Barry's reasons for not finishing any opinion yet, as whenever they had met there all the
sivitZs, according to his own account of the matter? Members were at once talking and keeping up (louver-
. fret tk_ of time experienced by all modern architects, eations. He believed there was a great deal of pleasure
etickt it„,a Proper frame of mind to produce with full ef- in finding fault, but in his opinion the Home of Corn
ttbie" sthetical development of design which he was mons was not a proper judge of the accommodation that
ta
4ee kto explain ..._(Laughter.) This was received with was provided for them. He would advise his Hon.
lioutlyseEa9 lie Grey and others present, but would Friend to withdraw his motion, and leave the responsi-
r the (-t Commons be satisfied with such a reason bility of the failure, or of the jobbing that had taken
ad peer completion of a building on which such sums
,place, upon Government itself. • .
ito;_'avislied? The. Hon. Baronet the Member for ' Mi. AGLIONBY said ho believed ~the. Government
Nice urr. Hamlets was always ready to come down and could not itself tell what sum had been expended,.or what
PArrfil wprk. Jelin Kemble, when asked was the mount of the 'Militia at preient ontitendiag.