The Sun.
London, England, 1868-05-23 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVEN

liar arguments for and against the Irish Church, was con-
timed by Mr. Synan, Mr. Whalley, Mr. Sergeant Barry
and Mr. Murphy, who supported the bill, and by Sir F.
Ileygate, Mr. Vetoer, Mr. Karslake, and the Attorney-
General for Ireland in opposition to it.
Lord ELCHO opposed the bill as an unprecedented
stretch of the powers of a majority, though he admitted
that, having so strongly condemned a mere abstract reso-
lution, Mr. Gladstone was bound to bring in a bill of some
sort. The principle of religious equality on which the
Resolutions and the bill were founded was utterly incon-
sistent with our present constitution, and must lead either
to the disestablishment of the English and Scotch Churches,
or to the repeal of the Union. It could not be established
unless the Act of Settlement were repealed, and not only
the Woolsack but the Throne were thrown open to Ro-
man Catholics. And this was actually proposed by that
"prolific legislator," Sir C.O'Loghlen, who had within the
last few days given notice of a motion to relieve the Sove-
reign of taking the declaration against transubstantiation.
That notice which, if there was to be a general election,
Lord Elcho hoped would be placarded in six- foot letters in
every borough of the kingdom, changed the aspect of the
question, and it disposed finally of the assertion that the
Roman Catholics had no ulterior designs.
Mr. W. E. FORS TER, on the other hand, maintained
that the policy of disestablishment was the best security
for the Union. It would be taken by the Irish people
as a proof that we were ready to treat them on the prin-
ciple of political equality, and to legislate in matters
purely Irish in accordance with Irish feelings and interests.
The English Establishment being supported by the ma-
jority of the English people—Dissenters as well as
Churchmen—was a great blessing, but no greater blow
could be inflicted on it than to tie up its fate with that
of the Irish Church. He comment.d on the discrepan-
cies between the utterances of Mr. Hardy and Lord
Mayo on the subject of "religious equality," and asked
Mr. Disraeli to reconcile them.

Mr. DISRAELI commenced by arguing, in reply to Mr.
Gladstone, that the Government, by not dividing against
the second and third resolutions, were net precluded from
opposing this bill. And to Mr. Gladstone's argument
that, as they admitted the possibility of modifications in
the Irish temporalities, they ought to join in preventing
the creation of new vested interests, he replied that if he
would put in his bill a clause to reserve the income of the
suspended benefices for the benefit of the Irish Church the
Government might be more inclined to support it. Mr.
Gladstone, new for the first time, bad declared that these
funds were to be applied to secular purposes, and that Mr.
Disraeli declared, amid loud cheers, he would oppose as
strenuously as the policy originally ascribed to him of be-
stowing t hese funds on other religious bodies. Accepting Mr.
F orster's challenge, he denied that it had ever been propc sad
to endow a Roman Catholic University (as the recent cor-
respondence showed), or to endow the Roman Catholic
clergy. Lord Mayo had never proposed it, and he himself
had distinctly argued against paying the Roman Catholic
clergy. Neither did ho believe that Lord Mayo had used
the words "political equality," bat if he had it was a
vague phrase to which people might attach very different
meanings, and certainly a distinct policy like that attri-
buted to Lord Mayo could not be extracted from it. As
to increasing the Regium Donum, not a word had been
said by Lord Mayo about that, and the Government,
though admitting that it was a "miserable pittance," had
always stated that it would bo hopeless to ask Parlia-
ment to increase it. In reply to the argument that this
was a groat act of justice to Ireland, Mr. Disraeli main-
tained that Parliament should deal with Ireland as
practical men with reference to its existing condition,
and pointed out that by offending and insulting a power-
ful minority the same discontent might be raised which it
was desired to remove. Ho repeated that the bill was the
first step towards the disestablishmont of the Church;
that it would bring about a crisis in England, and if its
policy was persevered in it would disturb the social system
of the country to its centre. He denied that he had raised
a "No-Popery" cry; the only cry he had heard was a
"No-Protestant" cry. That Mr. Gladstone had embarked
on a dangerous policy there was a growing opinion through-
out the country among powerful classes who usually took
little share in politics. The opinion of the people on a
question of this character could not be changed by mixed
majorities in the House of Commons, and that opinion
would triumphantly assert itself.
Mr. GLADSTONE wound up the debate, and, after
replying to some of the minor speakers, entered on an
elaborate analysis and comparison of the speeches of Mr.
Disraeli and Lord Mayo, from which he insisted that the
Government had originally contemplated the equalization
and concurrent endowment of all religious bodies in Ire-
land ; and so far from the policy of disestablishmont being
hastily thrust upon the country, it was but the counter
plan to the scheme of the Government. Dealing with the
argument that the attack on the. Irish Church would un-
dermine the English Establishment, he retorted that
he had no more responsibility for the views of those who
were opposed to all Establishments, because they happened
to agree with him on this particular point, than Mr. Disraeli
was responsible for the views of any Orange =mbar behind
him. The doctrine on which the Opposition wereacting was
that the English Establishment was a good institution and
the Irish a bad one, and that by extinguishing the bad the
good would be strengthened. Rut the worst friends of
the English Church were those who persisted in tying
together an Establishment which in the main was the
Church of the people, and one which hal no pretensions to
that character. Referring to an observation of Mr. Lid-
dell, he agreed with him that the policy of disestablish-
ment had been materially forwarded by the tenacity with
which the Government had clung to their seats. For the
anomalous relations of the Government to the house the
Opposition had no doubt some responsibility, and if they
had not responded to Ur. Hardy's valiant challenge to
move a vote of confidence it was from a conscientious be-
lief that their first duty was to push forward and secure
the success of this question.

The Earl of MAYO made a short explanation, denying
that he had ever proposed an immediate and largo en-
dowment in Ireland for religious purposes. In the speech
so often alluded to he had sbni.ly advocated a continuance
of the policy which had proved so beneficial to Ireland,
and of which the Maynooth Grant, the Regium Donum,
and the appointment of Roman Catholic chaplains in gaols
and workhouses were the chief results. As to the Regium
Donuw, he had always told deputations that it would be
impossible to induce Parliament to increase it.
After Mr. NEWDEGATE had vainly endeavoured to get
a hearing, the house divided, and the second reading of
the bill was carried by a majority of st-312 to 258.
Mr. GLADSTONE fired the sth of June for the committee.
The other business was disposed of, and the house ad_
journed at half-past one o'clock.

MISCELLANEOUS NEWS.

(Front the Anglo-.4m,erican Times)

The trial of Jefferson Davis has been postponed
to the 3d of June, the counsel on both sides having
agreed to the delay, and the Chief Justice having
signified that he would be ready to preside at Rich-
mond ten days after the close of the Impeachment
trial. The witnesses and jurymen have been noti-
fied to attend on that day, though there appears
little chance that the Chief Justice will be at liberty,
judging from the late adjournment of the Senate
Court to the 26th May. The bail bond has been
renewed, Horace Greeley, C. Vanderbilt, and Gerritt
Smith having again put their names on the new
bond for the sum of $25,000 each.
The New England delegation to the Chicago
Convention has been completed by the New Hamp-
shire elections. Butler and E. B. Washburne tele-
graphed that the result of the Impeachment trial
was certain. " Wade and Prosperity," said Butler,
" are sure to come with the apple blossom ;" and
Washburne placed on record his conviction " that
the recreant will be put out of the White House
before the end of the week." The Convention
supports Grant for President, endorses Impeach-
ment, and directs the State Senators to vote for the
President's conviction. The California Democrats
in their Convention adopted resolutions denounc-
ing the Reconstruction policy of Congress, Impeach-
ment, and negro suffrage, favouring an eight-hour
law, and instructing the delegates to New York
to first vote for Governor Haight for President,
and afterwards for Pendleton..--The Illinois Re-
publicans have nominated General J. M. Palmer for
Governor, Colonel John Dougherty for Lieutenant-
Governor, General John A. Logan for Congressman
at large, and instructed the delegates for that State
to the National Convention to vote for General
Grant. General S. M. Cullu na has been nominated
for the Eighth Congressional District. The leaders
of the New York Democratic Convention decline to
name an earlier day than that appointed for the
meeting in New York, July 4. No one outside
that narrow clique knows the ticket, and it is pro-
bable that even the leaders wait the result of the
Impeachment Trial. Conjecture has suggested
General Hancock or Pendleton.

A tornado passed over Illinois, affecting portions
of Ohio, Indiana, Tennessee, and Missouri. The
village of Shanghai was blown to pieces, four
churches unroofed, and four persons killed, besides
forty injured. A frame house was lifted up, and
whirled to a distance of 300 yards. Much damage
was done at St. Louis, a city which so lately has
suffered severely by a great fire.
The news from the South is not important. The
State Conventions of both parties have been held
in Virginia, and, notwithstanding the opposition of
Hunnicutt, Mr. Wells was nominated for Governor,
receiving 153 votes against 11 cast for Hunnicutt.
J. A. Clement was named for Lieut.-Governor;