The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-13 00:00:00

PERIAL PARLIAMENT.

7OUSE OF LURDS, April le.
nor.l .
T ''a IIPBB,LL (in the absence of the Lord Chan-
.'s . a his ,eat upen the Woelseck at Five o'clock.
LAW OF PLEADING.
,‘ 11PBELL broueht in a Bill to amend the
lass e pieading. In introducing the measure the Noble
and Learned Lord went into a Minute technical expla-
nation of the practice of special pleading.
The Bill was•then read a fleet time.
PETITION'S.
The Eerl of ZETLAND presented several petitions
against Post-office labour on Sunday.
CONVICT PRISONS BILL.
Eer' GREY moved the third reading of this Bill.
Lerd LYTTELTON thought that in several important
respects the present measure was a great improvement.
He regarded the separate imprisonment and the penal
laboer on public works, which by this Bill were to precede
traeepertetion, as of the greatest possible benefit. There
' were some pereone, at the head of whom was Arch-
bishop Whately, who considered it chimerical to attempt
to r&'orrn criminals, and declared that the great object
of punishment should he to d• ter others from the corn-
mieeion of crime. Oa the oilier hand, Captain Mac-
eocochie and his followers thought that all e (.Torts should
be directed to the reformation of criminals, and that very
little attention should be paid to those who urged that
punishment should be inflicted to deter others from crime.
The present measure attempted to combine the two, but
he objected to the sending, out criminals with tickets of
leave, as being a revival of the old assignment system,
and he doubted whether it would be attended with suc-
cess. Ho gave great credit to his Noble Friend for
Laving abstetined from attempting to press on the co-
lony of New South Wales the reception of convicts.
• The case of the Cape of Good, Hope showed how
futile such an attempt must be, yet he must say that he
thostreht the people of New South Wales were blind to
their own interests, and failed in their duty to the em-
peee when they refused to receive convicts.—(Hearehear.)
IS-, however, recommended that the same course of
los -ding should be adopted with regard to that colony
w %tee had been adopted with regard to the Cape,
and that the order in Council should be withdaawn.
He thought, however, that much of the objection on the
part of Vie Australian colonists was to he attributed to
the neglect of the Government authorities to form proper
regulations, and this was more particularly the case at
Port Philip. He thought it was impossible to
read the papers laid on the table without
brines convinced of the precariousness of the continuance
of the system of transportation to Van Diemen's
Lind. Free settlers had been encouraged
to settle there, and the feeling of the co-
lony was 4gainst the reception of convicts there.
Ile well re whored the state of confusion in which the
question of Transportation was left when himself and his
collcaeues left office, but he thought the confusion bad
btee increased by the conduct of the present Govern-
ment, The colonists of Van Diemen'e Land considered
that they had received a pledge that in 1846 trans-
portatioa sheuld cease, and they now threw that
pledge in the teeth of the Government, which
attempted to introduce convicts into Van Diemen's
Land after a probation at Norfolk Island,
which could only be considered as a large gaol, and he
believed on the whole a well-regulated and a safe gaol.
It appears that nwsons going out there with a condi-
tinel pardon, which they were to receive after serving
in tlfe penal works, were to be freed from all
restraint, and to be treated altogether as free
persons; except that they were not to be permitted
to return to this country. It was not surprising that
the colonists objected to the reception of these persons.
A pledge had been given that for every batch of convicts
sent out an equal number of free settlers shoul I be sent
out to Van Diemen's Land by the Government. Ile
feared this would tend to deteriorate the character of the
fres settlers. Who would like to be sent out as a sort of
maltewe'ght to a convict ? With regard to the consent
of Western Australia to receive convicts, it was not sur-
prisine, that the perishing colony should catch at any
strew to save themselves from impending ruin for want
of labour; but the Governor of the colony had distinctly
stated that it' any other method could he devised for ob-
taining the requisite supply of labour, the colonists of
Western Australia would be among the first to refuse to
receive convicts.
Lord WODELIOUSE expressed his general approval
of the Government plan, and especially of the plan of
separate confinement, which he thought would prove a
fiery severe punishment to the usual class of prisoners,
by debarring them from intercourse with their compa-
nions in crime, and preventing them from talking over
their past depredexions and planning fresh ones. With
regard to that part of the scheme which related to the
employment of convicts on public works. be thought with
due care and supervision it would be found successful,
although there were considerable difficulties to contend
with. The remaining part cf the scheme he thought
epee to more doubt. He was aware how impracticable
it was to devise any satisfactory scheme of secondary
punishment, without having recourse to transportation.
There was, besides, this double advantage connected
with transportation, that it finally got rid of a large
number of criminals who would otherwise be periodically
returned into the population of the country, and also
afforded the colonies the benefit of a large supply of
cheap labour. He thought, however, that the evils
which were entailed on the colony by such a constant
accession Of crime counterbalanced the advantages
which they received, and that, under those circumstances
the reception of convicts ought not to be forced on any
eelony against its will, and he decidedly disapproved of
nay nteeniet to do so.
The Earl of CHICHESTER expressed his concur-
renee with the view ~f the last speaker. He objected
• elee to the principle of colonies being chosen for the re-
ohsn of tramp irted convicts, as it could not but be
air- hictive of the utmost danger to ourselves and other
countries to endeavour to build up nations of such mate-
riels. He never expected that transportation, under
certain limitations, should be given up for secondary ,
pailishments. He considered the measure before the
Huu•e was one in the right direction, but still it should
ba followed by others more general and stringent. The
Secretary of State should be bound to report annually to
Parliament as to the distribution of convicts, and there ,
ought also to be an annual inspection of those convicts.
An annual report of the manner in which the Govern-
meatrxercised their 'powers in this respect would be at-
• tended with great advantage, and would impart confi •
dance to the due adminietration of criminal justice. He
utterly. disclaimed any hostility to the measure; but still
be maintained that the system, in order to be thoroughly
effl2acemis, should be more extensive. He was formerly
cipprnecl to. the employment of convicts on public works
before transportation, because ho thought their asso-
ciation immeliately after solitary confinement consider-
ably weakened its moral benefit -; bat he had altered
his opinion, on the favourable reports of inspectors,
and Oil information derived from other sources. lie
anxiously hoped that the Government, having adopted
this system, would carry it out in a liberal spirit as to
the manner of its extension, so that in a short time
they would find all the hulks abolished, and every con-
vict prisoner secured the benefit of moral and religious
attendance.
Lord STANLEY admitted that in the earlier stages
of punishment intended for convicts there was a greater
facility for supervision and control in the mother country
than in the colonies. For that reason he approved, to
a certain extent, of the proposed measure. He admitted
thcandvisability of greater superintendence, while at the
Same time, it was his impression that the system of
punishment introduced and recommended by the First
. Lord of the Treasury had not been fairly tried. From
the last reports of the inspectors of Portland prison, he
found that the experiment appeared to work satisfacto-
rily. With a great proportion of convicts the very name
of transportation carried terror, and had the effect of
. deterring' from crime. Another reason why he re-
joiced that transportation was still to be continued was
would thet it remove convicts from the scene of
I
their former transgressions and from contact with
their 'old associates, eo that a fair chance might be
. afforded them of becoming thoroughly reformed. If not
remelted. to a distant country they would always be sub-
ject to old temptations, and, in all probability, brought
back to crime either by the threats or promises of vicious
• companions. For these reasons it was of the utmost im-
portance that mule convicts should be finally removed to
a. penal colony, after undergoing the preliminary stages
of punishment in this country. That being his opinion,
he conceived that if transportation were to be continued.
a vast deal more would have to be done, and they should
not diminish the ultimate urgency of the punishment.
The old principle of assignment, he considered, had been
teo,hastily abandoned; and in announcing that the syss
tern of transpoitstion to New South Wales would cease
witin a cewtain brief period atter the announcement, he
considered the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies
heel acted with over-haste, and had caused an un-
due pressure on ea single colony, Van Diemen's
Lent?, 'by selecting it as the single receptacle
'he,. convicts, especially as the House of Com-
mons bad, almost concurrently, by special resolution,
put a atop to imprisonment or transportation in hulks.
At. that period steps were taken for the pur-
nos'O of diminishing the inconvenience by authorising
• ~l&e. Governor of Van Diemen's Land to establish set-
cements, with the view of enabling ticket-of-leave men
to become settlers, and obtain their own livelihood. Ac-
cording to the plan
of the Noble Lord at the head of the
celonial department, there would be a greater number of
cenvlcts, after undergoing the preliminary stages of
Punishment, sent to Van Diemen's Land than under the
eysteM, and he thought that great encouragement
43 'given that colony by what had occurred at the Cape
of Giiad trope to revolt against the introduction of so
considerable a number of convicts. What security was
there that Van Diemen'a Land would not resist, or that
all the moral inconveniences of such a deportation would
not be renewed?
.Government should look beyond five
or ten years, as to the result of overcrowding Van Die-
men's Land with .convicts. The proposition of accom-
panying them with a certain amount of free labour,
would increase that of which there was already a super'
ahqndance.—(lieer, hear.) He had thought it right
to wake those obesrvatious, not with a view to throw
any impediment in.the way of the experiment Govern-
treet wee making, as he thought in what they were
doing they were actuate I by tee best intentions • but he
had thought it requisite net to allow the third reading
of the Bill to pass without reminding th
the; they must look forward to what
woeulGdovernment
e
happea from the adoption of the presenhtetoiuresvei,tathblayt
- they were only staving off tho evil day which
t
few years come upon them, when they Would Issave in
a
meet the evil even in a worse form than that in whichtiet
at present existed.
Lord MONTEAGLE said he had for a long time mi
'lately considered the subject of transportation, and all
the information he could collect on the subject, from
personal observation and otherwise, convinced him that
it was a pqnishment much dreaded, and therefore a most
salutary one. Ile Ireland he knew that it was even more
dreaded than the punishment of death itself. With rest .
pea to the general question,. he did not think that it had
been fairly dealt with, fur no .one could doubt that the