The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-12 00:00:00

FitIPAY EVENING,

postponed the Comraitteo which he was at pre eta about
to move for, from a 'wish that various gentlemee of great
experience enci ability, who were engaged on the Com-
mittee of 1848, should be at liberty to take part in this
Committee. With respect to the first object of this Com-
mittee' viz., to inquire into the salaries of persons holding
office during pleasure under the Crown, several pro-
posals had already been made in a Committee which had
had the miscellaneous estimates under its notice. At
the same time it would be recollected that frequent pro-
posals had also been Lead° for the reduction of this
branch of the public exp enditure, either by reducing the
salaries 10 per cent, or by diminishing the:eumber of
persons employed in each depart went. Y t it seemed bettyr
that any reduction of thiis kind should be de cid( d up ee
by a Committee composed of independent Members of
the House, than by the persons whose salaries it was
proposed! to ;Inquire lint°. Lord Althorp. in moving
his Committee, bad stated that he did not think it desir-
able that the salaries of the high offices under
the Crown should be reduced so low as to confine them
altogether to persons of large private fortunes. With
regard to the second part of the motion he said, that
when Lord Denman was appointed Chief Justice of the
Queen's Bench in 1831, he proposed to takp a salary of
8,000/” but no regular decision had been come to by
Parliament on the subject. It would be advisable
if the salaries of the Chief Justices of the Queen's
Bench and of the Common Pleas were to be con-
sidered, that the salaries and retiring allowances
of the other judges should likewise undergo investiga-
tion. There were besides other questions of great im-
portance connected with the judges of the courts of
equity. Their salaries were considered by the Com-
mittee of 1798, and it was fit that they should
again be considered by a Committee, as since
that time many changes had taken place. The last part
of the motion referred to the diplomatic establishment.
of the country, which were formerly defrayed out of the
civil list; but since the alterations which separated them
from being part of the expenses of the Sovereign's house-
hold, they had been placed on the Consolidated Fund.
As nineteen years had elapsed since that separatiou
took place it was desirable also that these establishments
should be reconsidered by Parliament. In proposing,
therefore, that there should be a Committee on these
subjects, he intended that evidence should be
taken before it with the view Of ascertaining
in what shape reductions could best be made,
and he thought that at least one Member cf
the Government should have a seat on that Committee.
The appointment of such a Committee was conformable
to precedent, and it appeared to him in accordance with
the general feeling of the House. He observed that-
Mr. Disraeli and Mr. Henley had motions similar in
character, and presumed, therefore, that the question was
as to the most convenient mode of instituting the inquiry.
Mr. Disraeli, had, however, an amendment on the paper,
to the effect that Government should at once introduce a
measure for the reduction of salaries; but the Govern-
ment could not think it advisable to do so until the sub
ject had been inquired into by a Committee. The Go.
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the
vernment had nut been unmindful of the propriety of
ca
been taken off the army, navy, and ordnance estimates.
With regard to the civil departments, it certainly ap-
peared to him that the Government had far better means
Of making reductions, in point of detail, than any Com-
mittee of that House; and he thought that was proved
by what had taken place with regard to the inquiries
instituted of late years bath into the departments
of the Treasury and the Home Office. So,
far as it appeared upon the general surface,.
it could not be said that there were any extravagant ap •
pointments in these offices, or that the salaries paid were
exorbitant; but yet by a minute examination made by
official persons it had Leon found possible to make con-
siderable reductions in the departments he had
mentioned. Ho could mention a few instances
where reductions had bean made. In the
Treasury, two chief clerks, one senior, and four
junior clerks had been abolished at a net saving of
5,3451. per annum. In the office of the Paymaster of
the Forces, in the Ordnance, and in the Home-office
savings had been affected of upwards of 23,0001., and at
the same time, by removing some clerks from less use-
ful situations to posts in the offices where tbe
duties were heavy there has been complete efficiency
kppt up in each office,
,and no want of attention to the
general business of the country; so far as these offices
were concerned, had resulted from such reduction. With
regard to the Treasury, the reduction which had Leen
made in the course of the last thirty years were very
considerable indeed, since Le found that in 1821 then
were 38 persons balding offices in that department,
receiving 42,9601. per annum. In 1830 the sante
duty ' was performed by 29 persons, with a
salary of 24,0804, and at the present time it appeared
that the duties of the Treasury were performed for
25,000/. per annum, and considering the multafarious
nature of these duties, and the important matter which
the Treasury had to decide, he did not belies." that
there could be shown anywhere, either in
Europe or in America. an example of duiies
being so well performed fur so small a
renunciation. It had been said the Treasury was no-
thing better than the Argean stable, which required
cleansing; but in his opinion never were there public
duties performed so zealously and efficiently and econo-
mically as those performed by the permant officers
engaged in the Treasury.—(Cheers.)—At the
same time, Government had considered it nc-
cessary to make comparison between the salaries
paid to these officers, and those received by clerks en-
gaged in establishments like the Bank of England, and
he wait bound to say that the result of comparison was
very much in favour of the clerks employed in
the Bank of England and such like establishments.
He had maintained what had been done with
regard to the Treasury and the Home-ffice,
but it should be remembered that still further
reduction would be made from time to time, while with
regard to the Culonial-office, a similar inquiry to that
he had mentioned as being made 'by official
persons, was going on which would also lead to reductions
Other reductions of late years had been made in the
Customs, and that was financially called the Excise
department. In those various departments there had
been a reduction of 5,1001. a year. There were various
other reductions which had been made in consequence of
tbe inquiry which had been carried on officially at the
Custom-house, and which amounted to no less a sum
than 64,791/. a year. " It was intended there should be a
reduction of twenty-eight clerks in the office, which
would be a further saving of 6,9004 odd. With
regard to the Excise and stamps establishment, that
was formerly connected with the Board of Inland Re-
venue and a largo establishment of Commissioners. The
Intend Revenue Boards consisted of 38 Commissioners.
The present Board consisted of a Chairman a Deputy-
Chairman, and 6 junior Commissioners; and there was a
saving of salaries alone of upwards Of 30,0001 a
year. The reduction that had been made •within the last
' two or three years had likewise been very considerable.
because when the Excise, Stamps, and Tuxes, existed
as two separate boards, and there were twelve Commis-
sioners, two chairmen, two deputy chairmen, and eight
junior Commissioners, the united salaries of whom were
17,0001 a year. Compared with the former establish-
ment there was a saving of 5,600/, per annum. The
secretary's salary had likewise been reduced
1,500/., . the solicitor's 2,0001., the receiver ge-
neral's 1,2001., and the comptroller-generrl's 1,000/.
The distributors' poundage in England and Ireland had
also been reduced 37,1001. But beyond this he must
state that in 1833 the number of persons employed was
9,033; the number emplo3ed last
year was 7,009, being
a reduction of 2,024. The amount of. salaries in
1832 was 962,1741. ; it was now 715,000/.,
being a reduction of 247,174/. The last ac-
count that had been made showed a decrease,
as compared with 1833, of 2,170 persons, and
in the salaries of 259,670/, being more than a quarter of
a million of money in that department. There bad been
from time to time various other reductions; but it had
been thought desirable to effeet those reductions with as
little as possible of hardship to individuals.
Now, he
thought he should state, that in proposing this
Committee he proposed it, as it might have been
proposed in 1798, or iu 1807, or in 1830, with reference
to the duties to be performed by those various officers,
and not with the view which certainly some Gentlemen
seemed to have taken very warmly this'. there was at
present such a decrease in the expenses which belonged
to the office that it was possible, by some scale to make
a sudden reduction of the salaries of all of us.
The Committee would have to consider not merely the
price of_ corn, but also what was the reduction in all
those expences which persens in public offices have to
bear. He did not think that were many of those items
which would bear reduction—he held in his hand an ac-
count in detail the expense of a clerk of 150/, and he
did not think that there were many items in that
which would bear reduction. There were various
say
with regard to the general proposition which
that
might be taken into considera
dtoio inng ; butso,
b
other subjects which a Committee would have to con-
sider if it were proposed to make a reduction upon the
principle of prices. At the same time he did not mean
to say that as the general price oflidruinegtio.
wasn veryiitawas
now about to conclude o muchsi,
tdecreased,ne
didenb on think it desirable that
ti
that decrease should be
k
whati he
the standard of
re
bh he hadwee would
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ttels
a
e House;
but beforepropostion whilica
bad been
Made, that the public service would be better carried on
if the persons holding office were altogether removed
from Parliament. It was evident that such a proposal
was quite inconsistent with the mode of Government in
this country. Unless they had persons in Parliament to
defend measures there which might be brought forward,
it was quite evident that there would be no sort of har-
mony betweou the Members of the the two Houses
of Parliament. They had an instance of this
in the attempt which had teen made to carry on the
business of the Poor-law Board without a Secretary of
State for that department in the House to defend its
measures.. That bad been altered, and under his late
lamented Friend, Mr. Charles Buller, and the present
President, every complainant had been brought
into Parliament, and satisfactorily answered, so
that a much easier working of this branch had been
perceptible since the, introduction of the President of
Poor-law Board into Parliament. Ile merely mentioned
this as an instance, for be never expected that any Com-
mittee would for a moment entertain the idea of re-
moving Members of the Government from their seats in
Parliament. Ile now left tqe question in the hands of
the House, feeling certain that any' general Committee
would deal with it iu a manner satisfactory to the interests
of the country. The present Members ef the Government
were merely tenants-at-will; but the Committee would
have to consider the permanent interests of the country.
The Noble Lord then concluded by moving the appoint-
Meat of a Select Committee, to inquire into the salaries
and emoluments of offices held during the plea-
sure of the Crown by Members of either House of
Parliament, voted in the annual estimates; and also the
salaries and emoluments of judicial offices in the supe-
rior courts of law and equity in the United Kingdom;