The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-10 00:00:00

T Ti RUM

Pleasant, undoubtedly, to a Uhaneeil r oF the
ut whilst te
ikp'Acheclurr to be tilde to got on without taeatiore
,res wore neteeeittrv, it was tilt' rut.) k):
thee Chencellor of the. Fxcht quer to hick to them. fiat
ou,
to 8 titrdutyy, of
ethere being three triiilhens and a half of thie
which three millietts were exempted I rum
ethitie
?dolor that the. window-tax was levied mainly on
the benefit of the rich, was an assertion de-
fortY °PPosed to fact. The real reason of tee discere-
.ll • •
c prevailed the dwellinga of the poor, was
not so
their Much the operation of this tax, as it arose intro
general poverty. A csdeage with six windows was
ouoo,'
property, and one of that class having two rooms
the ground floor was better, as many Hon. Members
would perhaps think, then ninety-isiee out of a hundred
In the country. It must be obvious to the House that
the wis9r plan was to adopt the old principle of keeping
the burdens which we had, rather than go to others
which they
know nothing of; and holding that principle
he Ras nneillieg to give up the ainelete -tax until he
sow his way clearly with a fitting substitute; and his
hie Friend had referred to the oppressive operation
of this tax upon the poor, . but he must know, that the
hou"'tax was token off by Lord Althorn, in preference
to the window-tax, because the former did not so ma-
terially affect the richer classes of society. ]for these
statements
and for those which were contained in the
•'stements he Lai made to the House on previous
i
occas
• ons, he felt it kis duty to resist the motion of his
Noble Friend.
Lord DUDLEY STUART said that this tax was one
Which very naturally ail eted the interests of the great
Proportion of the inhabitants of the metropolis, who
Were exceedingly anxious to see it tepealed, as was
amPly testified by the number of petitions presen ed, and
from having had the honour to present one, which was
signedl by 5,000 ratepayers of the parish of Marylehone,
Re was desirous of saying a few words upon the subject.
believed there was no tax that was looked upon with
greater aversion by the people of this country. It was
a tax which had lasted for a great many years, and bad
always been the occasion of murmur, aversion, and eta-
inour,—(flear, hear.) He thought his Noble Friend had
done himself honour by his motion, and had endeared
himself to the people of the country, and that the Go-
vernment, by resisting it, had done exactly the contrary.
4e remembered the way in which his Noble Friend had
been met on a former occasion two sessions ago. It
Was not the Chancellor of the Exchequer then, but the
Noble Lord at the bead of the Government, wbo intro-
duced a budget, and in it a proposal was made that the
income- tax should -be increase 1. The Noble Lord en-
treated the House to accede to his proposition, portray-
ing the most calamitous consequences in the event of
retina), and said that after two years they would have
an excess of revenue, and that prosperity would
reture. The Noble Lord forgot for the moment to
use the official caution of not mentioning the exact
time, and he had turned out right in the time which
he did mention. The House did not answer his appeal.
It refused to vote the additional 2 per cent. on the in-
come-tax, notwithstanding which, none of the disasters
occurred which the Noble Lord predicted. Prosperity
had now returned to the country, and he wanted to
'louse,
from what taxes they were to be relieved. If the
'louse, following the course which it had adopted on the
occasion to which he alluded, would refuse to grant the
window-tax at all, the Government would soon find a
Way of getting on without it.—(Elear, hear.) The
Chancellor of the Exchequer had remitted the duty on
bricks, which he did not say would not benefit the poorer
°Lasses, but certainly it was of minor consequence. As
to the stamp-duty remission, which was also contem-
Plated, he believed it would prove no remission at all;
neither did he believe that the revenue would lose by
the contemplated change. Whenever the motion for the
repeal of this duty was made, they had the same an-
swer over and over again from every Chancellor of the
exchequer who had resisted it, viz., that they wanted
the money. The uniform opinion of men of science on
the prejudicial operation of this tax in a sanitary point
of view ought to show the Government the inconsistency
of allowing it to remain in force; and if the Chancellor
of the Exchequer still said that the revenue could not
bear the reduction, he would have him to consider
Whether the country would much longer submit to lay
it. He should cordially support his Noble Friend's
Motion.—(Hear.)
Sir GEORGE PECHELL observed that it was now
15 years since he heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer
inform the house that if the Gallant Officer the Mem-
ber for Winchester would withdraw his motion for the
repeal of the window duty, it should be taken into con-
sideration in the next cession. That was in June, 1835,
and since then they had six Chancellors of the Exche-
quer, and yet.the question remained at the present day
Precisely where it did then. The number of cases de-
cided by the judges on appeals, showed the large amount
of sarchargesetnnually made in the assessment to this
obnoxious tax; and so difficult was it for a person to
Understand the nature of his surcharge, that many par-
ties submitted to it rather than contest it with the sur-
veyor. A mere aperture in the wall counted as a win-
dow, so that a man did not know when he was safe.
People thought they were safe under Lord Althorp's
Act, but that was no security, for a gentleman who had
compounded for seventeen windows under that Act, had
opened twenty-five, and upon an appeal he was sur-
charged, it having been held that he had lost his occupa-
tion by having let his house to a tenant. He also
stated the case of a farmer, who was surcharged, which
he quoted, to induce the friends of the farmer to support
the motion.

Sir BENJAMIN HALL said, when a subject of im-
portance was debated in that House, the public devoted
attention to it. In a morning paper of that day it was
said that the present question was brought forward
under difficulties, as it preceded the financial statement
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, so that it would be
objected it was premature, and if postponed it would
then be said it was too late. He saw no reason that the
Irish should be exempted from this tax, while it was le-
vied in this country. They had a right to be placed on
the same footing with the Irish. This question might
be regarded as a sanitary measure, and he hoped his
Noble Friend would persevere in bringing this question
forward every session, for it was only by continually
knocking at the dcor that he could succeed.
Mr. MIME said there was now levied between fifty-
seven and fifty-eight millions of taxation, although ten
years ago it was not more than fifty-two millions a year.
He saw no reason why this large amount of taxation
should not be reduced. The only way to diminish the
expenditure of the country was by refusing the vote of
money to the Government. The amount of the tax
was eighteen hundred thousands a year, and if they
wished for a reduction of taxation, the way
was to remove this tax, and they would then find the
Government bringing forward diminished estimates in
the various departments of expenditure which were now
Unnecessary. They ought to put the screw on the Go-
vernment, and keep it on, if they wished to enforce
economy. It was said there was nothing new in this
question; that was not the case. Since this question
Was first introduced they had learned the importance of
sanitary regulations, and nothing was more calculated to
promote health than light and air. A petition was pre-
sented to that House signed by eighty-eight medical
men, which stated that giving light and air by removing
this tax would promote health, and be economic by re-
lieving the poor-rates. The amount now levied could
be obtained trom the parties now paying it in another
Way, but which would not prevent the free access of
light and air. The a ithdrawal of the African squadron
would make up the loss sustained by repealing this tax.
It would, at all events, contribute 700,000/. If they,
therefore, would do away with this tax, they would soon
get rid of the squadron.
Lord ROBERT GROSVENOR said, considering. the
interest the Government took in the question of sanitary
iMprovement, their refusal to repeal or modify this tax
Was done with a great loss of character.
Lord DUNCAN, in reply, said the speech which
he had first made in support of this motion had not been
Yet answered ; and, under these circumstances, he hed
U 0 other course to pursue in proposing his motion than
to reiterate the speech which he had first made in its
support. The course pursued by the Government with
regard to this measure would disparage their sincerity
'n
T promoting sanitary reforms.
he House then divided, when there appeared—
, For the motion
Against it ... ..• ... 80
Majority ... —3
The announcement of the division was received with
several rounds of cheering by the minority.
„,NCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL.
b .I:he SOLICITOR-GENERAL,
in asking leave to
ring in a Bill to provide more simple and effectual se-
ourlties for a Ivances to purchasers of encumbered estates
to Ireland, said that this Bill was intended sclely fur the
eraelit of proprietors of estates in Ireland. The object
:`,The meeeure, as alleged by some persons, was not
solely for the benefit of English purchasers of land in
:eland. He did nut think that any single measure
INd be introduced that would produce any very exten-
r° number of English purchasers of land in Ireland.
ttl making advances to purchasers of land in Ireland
wo objects should be aimed at; first, to induce advances
of luoney; and, second, to make the repayment of the
..°'l°Y advanced as secure as possible. In order to se-
,"
nt% these objects the various provisions of this Bill
:ere drawn up. They provided for the security of the
(h:slice by giving a power of sale in three mouths, in
W.'eult of the regular payment of interest, which
," also provided for. A Parliamentary title
Would be given by means of a certificate in
certain form, which could be transferred
When desired, as easily as a bill of exchange. Upon this
security proprietors of land could easily obtain advances
Lhmoney for the improvement of the land. Without
° possession of capita
was a There l it was impossible
largo amount to make th
of
e
asud productive.
Aen°Y in England, which it might be possible to divert
this
this channel of Irish improvement. If the Bill had
effect it would be most beneficial to Ireland. If it
bad not that effect it would be a dead letter. It could do
notls harm to any one. He anticipated great benefit from
"c substitution cf a Parliamentary title instead of the
present expensive and elaborate mode of conveyance. He
d°Ped the House would allow the measure to be intro-
t:ced, that they might see what it was. Undoubtedly
seere would be great difference of opinion upon this
iti ", Ject; but the general feeling in Ireland seemed to be
'avow of the gene' al scope and principle of the mea-
sure.
Colonel DUNNE said that undoubtedly this measure
Iv
he be of great importance to Ireland. By the course
had pursued ou a former occasion he had succeeded
t utci Jattracting public attention. The Bill now they were
ba was to be for the benefit of Irish proprietors, tor-
erlY it was said to be for the benefit of Irish speculators.
Tee SOLICITOR-GENERAL—No.
(so Colonel DUNNE--ile should say that he had the
i'lLtsto„ur belonging to a society established two years
I,re.tor the protection of the Irish proprietors, who were
IT to be swamped by the recent measure of encum-
of TI estates, and in that he bad the concurrence of some
t0,..1•;;e highest authorities, and those men .rho were
piie
disinterested, as not belonging to the British ere-
zwe'e When he reflected on this matter, he was re-
'Ned that that society to which he belonged had made

every exertion to meet the wishes of Government by
giving them a valid security for the lean to be s,-ranta d
for the improvement of Trish estates; hut in thet he and
tile Irish proprietors with whom he was coenectea ouno
that they were totally disappointed; for thet Gitaerinecut
had no notion of granting that loan which had been
mooted by them. He should, how, ver, say thee be was
glad that this measure was introduced, and did hot
therefore mean to oppose it; but so tar from that, hoped
that her Majesty's Government would support the Lill,
as he considered it would be very conducive to the inte-
rests and welfsre of the Irish proprietor and the Iri:h
farmer.—(Hear, hear.) He was highly gratified with
the clear and intelligible exposition of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, and hoped from that exposition that a cow-
petition would not be raised between the Irish proprietor
and other parties, such as the London Congeal), who,
by their wealih, could not be competed with; end he felt
bound to add, that he did not think that the purchasers
would have any advantage by a Parliamentary Bill. lie
then adverted to the abuse of a sale of a gentleman's
property in the county of Westmeath, whose name he
did not wish to mention. This could not but elicit the
indignation cf every Hon. Member, when he was informed
that that property was sold under the Encumbered Es-
tates Bill fur 600/., which was only one y ear and a halt's
purchase, and that he attributed solely to the bad let.,isla-
tion of the present Government.
Sir L. O'.I3RIEN said that though he agreed with the
encumbered estates measure to a certain extent, yet he
considered that many a landed proprietor in Ireland was
materially injured by its working, in consequence of
new creditors coming suddenly on those proprietors like
a set of harpies to annoy them in the moment of their
difficulties and embarrassment. lie thought that nothing
could be more unjust than that Government should em-
power creditors to dispose cf property after only two
days' notice, particularly when many of those landed
proprietors could not obtain their rent for the last two
years, and he therefore thought that if it were the in-
tention of the Government to make stringent laws for
the sale of land, that they should give the landlords ano-
ther mote forcible power to recover their rents, particu-
larly as many of the landlords had expended large sums
of money for the improvement of those lands. He was
cf opinion that if the Right lion. Gentleman had taken
a retrospective view of this measure, that much good
would be effected; yet he should say that be doubted
the sale of the property in the county of Mayo to which
the Hon. and Gallant Member (Colonel Dunne) alluded.
Mr. FRENCH said that he could assure the Hon.
Baronet (Sir L. O'Brien) that the property alluded
to by his Hon. and Gallant Friend (Colonel Dunne) was
located in the county Mayo, and that its income being
4001. per annum, it was sold for foul., which was only a
year and a half's purchase, for he knew the proprietor,:a
Mr. M'Laughlin. When he referred to this case he
was reminded of the 658 cases under the Court of
Chancery, of which number only four were disposed of
under the Encumbered Estates Act. The Hon. Gentle-
men then alluded to several cases of property being sold
at a considerable discount, some of which were sold at
8f per cent. under the ordnance valuation. He was to-
tally at a loss to account for this new light which had
beamed on the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Solicitor-
General) which never appeared lot fore, and which, it
appeared, tended to illume all the members of the Go-
vernment, namely, that there was a great quantity of
land to be sold in Ireland.
Mr. NAPIER objected to the introduction of this Bill
on the same grounds as he had opposed the Encumbered
Estates Bill, because he thought many would be ruined
by such a measure. When he heard it advanced as an
argument in favour of this Bill that there had been much
land brought into the market, he would ask what was
to become of the claims of the many creditors, who
would not receive a fair dividend of the sale, and should
add that, though it was necessary that some experiment
should be tried, yet that the present was quite auoma!ous
as not being likely to meet the demands or wishes of
any party. He therefore thought it was of the utmost
importance to make every endeavour to support the
landed interest in Ireland by the introduction of some
measure preferable to the present in the opinion of all
persons connected with the landed interest. He should
say, with respect to the property sold in the county of
Mayo, to which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. French)
alluded,- that the low purchase aas owing to a want of
adve. tising the sale. He thought, therefore, that this
measure—certainly an experimental one—deserved the
greatest attention, and he should, if the Bill were allowed
to be brought in, give it every attention in his power,
so as to assist io making it as perfect as possible.
Mr. SADLEIR would suggest to the Government
that there should be au arrangement by which the
,time
might be fixed, for greater convenience between parties,
and also a place, when and where this money might be
paid,
,without making it peremptory to pay it into the
Bank of Ireland, and also that there should be an ar-
rangement entered into, by which the Bank of Ireland
might lend money un land debentures in Ireland, as the
Bank of England had dune in times of great depression
of lauded interests in England. He thought that every
allowance should be made for proprietors of estates in
Ireland whose encumbrances were yet moderate, and that
every exertion should be allowed them to keep them-
selves, as far as possible, out of the operation of the
Encumbered Estates Bill; but he apprehended that the
'• nursing" of estates, on which there were encumbrances,
would be productive of injury to the ownere, and would
ultimately bring them within the operation of the Bill.
He thought that great credit was due to the Solicitor-
General for having proposed a 1.3111 which, like this,
would facilitate the advancement of money on landed
property in Ireland. It had been said by some Hon.
Members in the House, that nothing could be more im-
politic and injurious on the part of the Government
than affording a facility to landed proprietors in Ireland
to borrow money on the security of their lands in Ire-
land; but nothing could be more erroneous, and on those
grounds, amongst others, he confessed he was glad to see
such a Bill as the present brought under the considera-
tion of the House.

Mr. STAFFORD hoped be was under a misappre-
hension, if he understood the Solicitor- General to say
that the Government tad given up all idea of encou-
raging the investment of English capital in the purchase
of land in Ireland. It he was wrong in that impression
he should rejoice, because he regarded such a statement
as calculated to lead to the greatest mischief in relation
to the interests of the people of Ireland, and of that
country generally. They could not improve Ireland,
legislate as they would, until they get English capital
introduced into that country, and they need not hope for
improvement in Ireland until they have a certainty of
English security for the capital that might ho invested
in that country. He could not sit down without saying
that the greatest credit was due to the ion. and Learned
Gentleman the Solicitor-General, for his exertions in
the measures which he had introduced, to raise Ireland
from her low ()erudition; and while he made that acknow-
ledgment, he would take the opportunity of saying that
great allowance ought to be made, and he trusted would
be made, for the unfortunate individuals whose proper-
ties were encumbered, and that every indulgence would
be extended to them in their efforts to extricate their
estates from the encumbrances upon them, before resort-
ing to the extreme course ( f a sale.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL explained that the
expression which ho made use of with respect to his
apprehension that English capitalists would not invest
their money iu the purchase of Irish estates did not ex-
press the opinion of the Government, but his own. Ho
thought, in fJrrning that opinion, that persons who were
about to purchase property had generally some idea of
going to reside on it, and as matters stood in Ireland, he
doubted that English capitalists would have any great
desire to go and reside in that country, and therefore he
came to the conclusion that it was not very likely th,t
English capital would be invested in the purchase of
landed property in Ireland. With respect to the state-
ment that an estate in Ireland had been sold for a year
and a half's purchase, he might remark that the whole
of the property might he sold for a liability of the owner,
no matter what might be due, provided the owner did
not pay. That was to say, if the owner of a property
did not pay, the covenanter could sell either part or the
whole of the property for the encumbrance with which
it was charged. The case, however, of this property of
400 E a year having been sold for a year and a halt's
purchase, ought to be inquired into, to ascertain if any-
thing wrong, or requiring redress, had taken place in the
transaction.—(Hear, hear.) Great difficulties, however,
lay in the way of a sale. The House would recollect,
that under the Act, it was necessary that the creditors
selling any estate should state the amount of rent which
it let for. Now, ho could state instances to the House of
cases wherein, when inquiries were made on the subject,
neither the owner of the estates, nor the stewards, nor
the tenants who occupied the lands, knew what the
rent of those estates amounted to.—(Laughter.) The
landlord did not know it, the steward did not know it,
and, with respect to the tenants, all they knew about it
was, that the steward came there from time to time to
and took as much as he could.—(Much laughter.)
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
SUPPLY.

The Report of the Committee of Supply was broughtt
up.
Several resolutions having been agreed to, on the re-
solution for defraying the expenses of the commissariat,
Mr. SPOONER put a question with reference to
some unoccupied ground purchased for barracks which
had not yet been built upon.
Lord J. RUSSELL regretted he could not reply to
the question—the Right Ron. Gentleman the Secretary
for the Home Department not being in the House.
Mr. SPOONER thought some account should be ren-
dered to the House of what was done with the money.
The resolution was then agreed to.
On the resolution for the defraying the expenses of
the Admiralty and offices,
Colonel SIBTHORP said he was well aware how
useless it was for so small a man as he was in that House
to attempt to raise an objection successfully to such a
vote. He had endeavoured the other evening to dis-
charge a painful duty—for no one was more attached to
the two services, the army and navy, than the humble
individual who then addressed them. He was bound to
make that declaration, fur those who had gone before
him, and those whom he loved, had been and were in
those services. He had lort an amiable brother in the
navy, who had not been undistinguished in his lifetime.
He had two sons in the army, he was not ashamed to say,
—one of whom had not been undistinguished in the ser-
vice of his country at Moultan. Those ties must natu-
rally make hirn attached to the service, and therefore he
was justified in saying he discharged a painful task when
he rose tte previous night, from a sense (f public duty.
and proposed the reductions which he did. He could
have no other motive for his proceeding than his public
duty. He knew but few of the parties—his old friend
the First Lord of the Admiralty and his respected friend
Admiral Dundas—and when lie proposed reductions in
the salaries of the superior clerks, sv'no, he believed, per-
formed their duties in a most efficient manner, he only
did no because he was actuated by those principles of
economy which were professed by his side of the House,
and by the at er side also, but very little practised.
He took the sense of the House on his motion, and he
flattered himself he should have been supported by a
vast number of lion. Members on his aide of the House,

140144TD0N,

who were professedly a ivocates of economical prin-
ciples and economical pursuits. He regretted to say he
was left in a minority, arid though ho coud hnrdly cx
pect much support, that should not make him iorget his
duty, and he would stand forward to do bit.: du:y l tint
even if he only got the support of one Hun.
illember. He did not wish to throw ratio obstacks in the
way of the vote, and would not take up the time of the
House with any hopeless opposition. He had done
what he conceived he ought to have done, and he did
not regret what he had done. He c as, however, afraid
that the Noble Lord, for whom he entertained a respect,
though he disliked his principles, who had promised a
Committee, would yet hesitate to carry propositions fur
reductions pr.ctically into effect. He would, however,
catch the Noble Lord as a cat watched a mouse. He
would say no more, except to repeat he did not regret
tt:e course he hat! pursued.
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY did not think the Hon. and
Gallant Gentleman I ai made out a ease for the reduc-
tion which he had prop6sed. Ile was of opinion that a
most vigilant superintendence ought to be exercised in
tie dockyards and other departments.
The vote was then agreed to, as were also the remains
ing votes.
The Exchequer bills (9,200,0001.) Bill, as amended,
was considered.

The thick Unties Bill was raid a third time and
passed.
The third reading of the Judgments (Ireland) Bill,
and the Committee on the Stamp Duties Bill, were post
pored till Thursday.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL.

On the motion for the second reading of the Chari-
table Trusts Bill,
Mr. G OULBURN desired to offer a few remarks in
reference to the proposed measure. The Bills did not, in
his opinion, fulfil its title, and it was based on a wrong
principle. He thought that charitable trusts, under
1001. annual value, had as good and as just a right to
faithful administration as those over 1001. per annum;
but the former were proposed to be taken out of the
jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery, and placed within
the control of the Masters in Chancery, or the County
Court Judges. If the Learned Solicitor-General, in-
stead of adopting such a principle, gave his attention to
the preparation of such rules of the Court of Chancery
as would enable charities to be administered at a small
expense,the thought he would he doinga great public ser-
vice; whereas, if he persevered with the Bill in its pre-
sent shape, the effect would be most unsatisfactory.
He objected to a transfer of the administration of cha-
ritable trusts under 201. to County Court Judges.
There were sixty of those judges, each of whom, in
all probability, would decide points of equity on dif-
ferent prinoiples in each case—a serious evil, against
which he thought they ought most carefully to guard.
Would it be safe to leave in the Lands of county
court judges the appointment of trustees of charitable
trusts for education purposes, and to empower them to
decide whether those trusts should be administered for
purely secular, or for religious purposes ? Against this
prevision of the Bill he entered his protest, believing that
the best course would be to leave the administration 'se
those trusts with the Court of Chancery, and to render
the proceedings of that tribunal less expensive.
Mr. TURNER said that the Bill deeply affected the
interests of the poorest classes of the people, and imposed
on the House a most serious and important duty, that of
selecting an honest and faithful tribunal to administer
the charities belonging to those classes. The Bill pro-
posed to deal with all charities under 100/. per annum,
which amounted to 21,000, and involved capital to the
extent of 1,000,000/.—(Hear, hear.) It was desirable
and necessary that proper persons should be selected as
trustees, and it was equally necessary that, when ap-
pointed, they should be interfered with as little as pos-
sible, provided that the decisions were bona fide car-
ried cut. It was also advisable to provide a speedy
and efficient remedy against abuses of charitable
trusts, and to take care that no groundless com-
plaints of their application should be encouraged. The
Bill, he considered, was deNctive in guarding against
litigation. In matters of charitable trusts between 301.
and 1001. it gave absolute jurisdiction to masters of the
Court of Chancery without appeal, a proceeding contrary
to the general practice and feeling throughout the coun-
try, and the more objectionable, inasmuch as the masters
would have the power not only of appointing but of re-
moving the trustees. To the jurisdiction of the county
court judges in matters of trusts under 301., he had the
strongest possible objection, inasmuch as those judges
were not loc ally resident, and would derive their know-
le ige of the parties proposed as trustees from their
clerks, who, generally speaking, were solicitors, and
took an active part in local politics. Another objection
he had to referring these matters to the judges of the
county courts was, that iu the administration of those
charities they would be apt to be swayed by political
considerations, and would therefore work the charities
for the benefit of local politics. There was, besides, an-
other grave objection he had to the measure. A power
was given to the Lord Chancellor, should he think
proper, to remit the administration of charities to
those judges above 1001. a year, so that the chari-
ties of Harrow and Eton might, should the Lord
Chancellor deem fit, be consigned to the keep-
ing of those county court judger. He did not deny
but that there was a necessity for legislation on the sub-
ject, but be thought the remedy lay in removing the
existing evils of the Court of Chancery. Let them give
one of the Chancery judges the same powers to adminis-
ter those charities as any of the other judges had at
chambers, and they would find them administered much
better, and as cheap as by the mode proposed by the pre-
sent measure. Another convenient tribunal to which
they could refer their administration, would be the com-
missioners of bankruptcy throughout the country, but,
at all events, he trusted the House would not sanction
the principle of conferring the power to administer them
upon the judges of the county courts.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he quite agreed
with those who had preceded him, as to the importance
of the measure, as no better evidence of its importance
could be named than the fact already stated, that the ag-
gregate value of those under 30/. a year amounted to
about 300,000/. per annum, and also from the fact that
in every one of those trusts where a breach of trust
might be committed, no redress could be had in conse•
quence of the expense which would be incurred in ob-
taining it. It was, therefore, highly important that
some steps should be taken to remedy the evil. His
Hon. and Learned Friend had said that the remedy was
a reform of the Court of Chancery, but while he was
not disposed to dispute the proposition, that if the Court
of Chancery was as it should be those trusts could be
properly and efficiently administered by it, still, after
the attempts which had been made to effect a reform of
that court, and after seeing the issue of those attempts,
he thought it must be some time before such reform
could be effected. No doubt but in the end a reform
would he effected, but what was to become of those trusts
in the meantime? The present measure had been intro-
duced to supply the means of administering those trusts
in the meantime in a cheap form, and while it was ob-
jected to on the ground that there would be a diversity
of opinion among the judges of the various county courts
iu their administration, some of those judges directing
their administration one way, some another; yet. that ob-
jection would hold equally good to the constitution of the
county courts as they now existed, and yet he did not hear
a word of complaint from any part of the country against
those courts; on the contrary, there was a demand for
their extension. Besides, there was an appeal frcm
those judges should they consider that the casejus-
tified an appeal. As to the allegation that the judges of
those courts were taken from the common law bar, and
were not acquainted with the administration of such
matters, such was not the case, fur he knew six or seven
of them himself who belonged to the Chancery bar. I t
would be as go, d an objection to those that they were
not acquainted with common law, and consequently were
not qualified for judges in the county courts. But he had
never heard such an objection. As to their being ac;uated
by political bias, they were not, at all events, so apt to be
so as the commissioners of bankruptcy, to whom his
Hon. and Learned Friend proposed to refer these mat-
ters, who, being resident on the spot, would be more apt
to be swayed by local political considerations. He did
not mean to say that the Bill was perfect, but as he did
not conceive the principle of the measure was ob-
jected to, which was to provide a cheap mode
for the administration of those trusts be considered
that all the details could be better discussed in Com-
mittee, and would press the second reading.
Mr. ROUNDELL PALMER admitted the necessity
there existed for a measure for the purpose stated, but
he thought it should be confined to that purpose, and
not to affect any matters of a contentious nature, which
had better be left until a general measure was introuced
for the reform of the Court of Chancery in this respect.
In regard to the point of appeal, the present Bill was
open to grave objections, for he would not have it left
to a judge to say whether an appeal should be allowed
against his decision or not. He did think that to ex-
tend the principle to other courts, would be a novelty in
principle, and likely to wcrk exceedingly ill in practice.
Beside:, he thought there was a very great distinction
between there small charities and the questions that
might arise in a county court adjudicating upon 201.
There was one other observation he wished to make. He
believed they had introduced a most excellent principle
in establishing county courts. He believed they had
conferred a great„boon in doing so, and he was therefore
anxious that the judges should have all the respect and
consideration possible; but he believed that giving these
cases to the judges in the Bankruptcy Court would be
advisable, because they were necessarily more conversant
with equity and law than could be expected from the
county court judges, whose time was too much, occu-
pied to enable them to study the abstract questions of
law. For that reason be preferred to give the jurisdic-
tion to another class of judges which already existed.
Mr. AGLIONBY thought the country would not
agree with the eminent gentlemen connected with the
Court of Chancery in their opinion of the fitness of the
Court of Chancery. They had now got courts in which
they had much greater confidence. The worst part of
that court was its masters, who sat in a small room not
open to the public; and he believed that it would be bet-
ter to give the county court judges jurisdiction in these
small charities under 301. As to appeals, he objected to
them as a great nuisance. It was tar more satisfactory
to refer such cases to a gentleman eminent at the bar
without any appeal. Ile must entirely approve of the
principle of the Bill.
The Bill was then read n second time, and ordered to
be committed on Monday next.
The House then adjourned at a Quarter to Twelve
o'clock.

Sixteen human skeletons, of apparently full-grown
persons, have lately been discovered in a field belonging to
Mr. William igar, of Upton, in the parish of Long Sutton,
by a man employed in cutting a ditch. They appeared to
have been buried in nearly a straight line, ranging from
north to south, and they were laid in cavities about three
feet in depth, cut in solid rock, at irregular distances from
each other. It is but a few years since that several human
bones were discovered in a field about two hundred yards
from this spot. There can be no doubt of their being the
remains of some unfortunate warriors, who fell, probably, in
battle centuries ago, but on what occasion history does not
record.—Bath Chronicle.