The Sun.
London, England, 1850-12-31 00:00:00

TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.

SIR,—In your paper of the 3d of December you
did me the honour of inserting a letter which I had
addressed to the Right Hon. the Secretary of State for
the Home Department, and in which I took the
liberty of recommending that all institutions of a
monastic character in these countries should be placed
under the surveillance of the civil magistrate, in order
to prevent any abuses from the compulsory detention
or improper treatment of persons in them. I am
much obliged to you for the publication of my letter,
and I beg leave now to call your attention to the
account which appeared in the Globe or Standard of
the 233, respecting the escape of a young lady from a
convent at Banbury, and to the late extraordinary
conduct pursued by two Romanist gentlemen to Miss
Munk, at Exeter, as remarkable and unexpected
examples, in confirmation of the apprehensions which
suggested the rational precautions which I recom-
mended in that letter, which I hope that you and
your colleagues of the press will insist upon. Ac-
cording to the old proverb, " Res non verba," a short
Act of Parliament, placing all such institutions under
the superintendence of the civil power, would tell
more in asserting the legitimate supremacy of the
Sovereign, by quietly putting it in force, than many
long speeches and empty resolutions, which are of no
use, against the influence of a spiritual
minds of those who are superstitious enough to ac-
knowledge it.—l am, Sir, &c., power, on the
JOHN PERCEVAL.
Kensington, Dec. 28, 1850.

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS.—Some weeks since
we stated tbat the Earl of Chichester was to be proposed for
the vacant office of Chairman of Committees in the House cf
Lords next session. Since then, however, it has been found
that his Lordship could not possibly discharge the duties of
that office along with those which devolve on him as head of
the Ecclesiastical Commission, and all intention of putting
him forward has been reluctantly abandoned. We believe
we are correct in stating that Lord Wharncliffe will be now
proposed to fill the vacant office, with every likelihood of
success. Colonel Hugh Rose, Consul-General for Syria, has
been appointed Secretary of Embassy at Constantinople. BT
this appointment a saving of 1,0001. a year will be effected,
as it is not probable that the vacancy in Syria will be again
filled up. _ _

Cardinal Wiseman has received autograph letters
of congratulation from their Majesties the Queens of Spain
and Portugal, completing the number of the Catholic Sove-
reigns of Europe who have addressed his Eminence on occa-
sion of his appointment.

Mr. Lovi, an English engineer, inventor of a diving
machine, by which a person can remain several hours under
water, at a great depth, has been called from Scio in order to
try his machine in the port of Constantinople, at the place
where the Neiri-Chevket sunk. He experimented with the
greatest success in the presence of TT. F. Admiral Suley-
man Pacha, Vice-Admiral Mustapha Pacha, and several of
the superior officers of the Turkish navy. Mr. Lovi, furnished
with his apparatus, descended on to the deck of the IN eiri-
Chevket, which vessel he found at the depth of about twenty
fathoms, deeply embedded in the sand. The fore part of the
vessel lay split open, and her boats overturned on the deck,
which was covered with remnants of the rigging. It is ex-
pected that Mr. Lovi will be appointed to raise as much of the
vessel and stores as can be recovered.-111alta Mail.
THE LATE DE. M'FADYEN OF JAMAICA.—We oh•
serve that this gentleman is among those who have fallen
victims to the appalling ravages which cholera has been
making in Jamaica. Dr. M'Fadyen was a native of Glas-
gow, and Eon of the late Mr. J. M'Fadyen, wellknown as the
oldest music-sellers in Scotland. The doctor went to Ja-
maica in 1824. Baying been highly respected by all classes,
his death would have been deeply regretted in any circum-
stances ; but falling, as he has done, under the heavy pro-
fessional labours imposed on him by the prevalent epidemic,
his removal has affected all with a feeling of peculiar sorrow.
Dr. M'Fadven was a member of the Liunman Society of
London, and had attained much distinction as a botanist.
He was author of the well-known " Flora" of Jamaica, a new
edition of which he was preparing for press when he was
suddenly cnt:off —Daily Nail.
LEIGH.--TUE SILK TEADE.—We are glad to state
that there is this winter much more employment in hand-
loom silk weaving than has been known in this neighbour-
hood for many years. The operatives have been fully em-
ployed during the last two or three months - a period in
other years when the majority have been waiting for
work. It is said that the briskness is in anticipation of a
good demand for English silks during the Exhibition of 1851.

THE RECTOR OF MORPETH AND
HIS CHURCHWARDENS.
A somewhat acrimonious correspondence has
recently taken place between the Hon. and Rev.
Francis Richard Grey, the rector of Morpeth, and
the churchwardens of St. Mary, in that parish, rela-
tive to a request made by them to him to discontinue
the practice of chanting the psalms and intoning the
litany and other prayers during the services of the
church.
Mr. Grey, the rector of Morpeth, we may premise,
is a younger brother of Earl Grey, and a brother-
in-law of the Earl of Carlisle, by his marriage with
Lady Elizabeth Howard. On the death of the Rev,
Frederick Ekins, the former rector, in 1842, Mr.
Grey, who was educated at Oxford, was appointed to
the living, of which the patron is the Earl of Carlisle,
and went to reside at the rectory. house there in De-
cember of that year. The great bulk of the
Reverend Gentleman's parishioners reside in the town
of Morpeth, which contains a population of between
4,000 and 5,000, and there are several outleing
townships included in the parish, in two of which,
namely, at Ulgham and Kirkley, are chapels of ease,
for the accommodation of the rural part of the
parishioners, at which the rector or one of his three
curates officiates on Sundays. St. Mary's, the parish
church, a fine ancient structure, is situated about a
mile from the town, and thither from time imme-
morial the inhabitants, save such as were Dissenters,
have been wont to repair for divine worship on
Sundays. For the convenience of the parishioners,
however, in inclement weather, there has for a long
time been a chapel of ease situate in the town itself.
On going to reside in the parish, Mr. Grey, it is
but justice to say, entered upon the discharge of his
functions with a laudable degree of zeal:and spirit,
which he has never for a moment relaxed, though it
may not always have been characterized by the
severest prudence, and though he has been occasionally
thwarted by some of the parishioners. At his eugges-
Lon and partly at his expense the parish church,
which, during the incumbency of his predecessor had
fallen into partial dilapidation, whilst the interior had
been manifestly disfigured by a perverted taste, under-
went essential repair and a process of decoration, in-
cluding the elevation of the chancel roof, a question-
able improvement by the way. He showed, too, his
regard for the poor by reviving the offertory service
and collection, and by causing a great number of free
sittings to be appropriated to their use within the
church ; and he eventually removed the doors from
the remaining pews so as to do away with the idea
of anything like property in them, and to place the
whole of the parishioners on a level in this respect.
At the came time, he began gradually to introduce a
series of changes into the mode of conducting divine
worship, which at first gave rise to much dissatisfac-
tion among some of the congregation, which has
never been wholly allayed, though the parishioners
generally have ceased to complain, and may be pre-
sumed now to acquiesce in them. The psalms were
chanted, and complicated anthems sung, by a native
choir trained for that purpose; the litany and some
of the prayers were " intoned" by the officiating cler-
gymen; turning to the east during the recitel of the
creeds was introduced ; in a word, the service was
conducted much after the manner observed in the ca-
thedrals. To the aged and unlettered portion of the con-
gregation, especially, these changes in the service oc-
cesioned much perplexity and discontent; fur, as
might have been expected, many of them were wholly
unable to join in the chants, simple though they
mostly were. The result was, that some, though only
a few, left the church altogether, whilst a few others
attended the cleurches in the adjacent parishes, where
the service was more in accordance with their taste;
but the great body of the parishoners continued to
attend the ministrations of their rector. Those
changes took them the more by surprise, inasmuch,
as during the incumbency of Mr. Grey's predecessor,
extending through a long series of years, the service was
conducted with primitive simplicity. An appeal was
made to the Bishop of Durham, within whose diocese
Morpeth is situate, by a few of the parishoners to
forbid the chanting; but that appeal was unsuccessful,
and the objectionable practices were continued with
little, if any, mitigation.
The rector found the chapel of ease in the town
a somewhat dilapidated and unpretending building,
and he conceived the idea of supplanting it by the
erection of a magnificent structure in another part of
the town. This he achieved partly by his own libe-
rality, and much more by the amazing amount of zeal
he evinced in procuring contributions from others.
The foundation stone of that church, called St.
James's, was laid by the Earl of Carlisle, and for
sometime past divine service has been performed daily
within its walls. Whilst this church was in the course
of erection the rector had recourse to the extraordi-
nary step of holding the Sunday evening service in
the County Court-house in the town, which presented
a singular spectacle on those occasions, the jury- box,
the bench, the counsel's seats, the dock, and the gal-
leries, being indiscriminately occupied by the congre•
gation.

Towards the Dissenters in the town, who are in
the aggregate a numerous body, consisting principally
of Presbyterians, Independents, end Wesleyan:, the
rector and some of his curates have always deported
themselves in a way greatly to offend their feelings—
treating them as schismatics, without the slightest
chance of salvation, and regarding the baptism of
their children by Dissenting ministers as absolutely
invalid and inefficacious.
With the view of accommodating those of his
parishioners who disapproved of the choral service,
some time ago the rector caused the service on Sun-
day mornings, the first Sunday in every month ex-
cepted, to be held simultaneously at the parish church
and at St. James's, at the former of which the chant-
ing the psalms and the prayers was discontinued.
The choral, service, however, was retained at St.
James's, and thither by far the greater number, per-
haps, of the parishioners go on Sunday mornings when
they have to choose between that and the " plain ser-
vice" at the parish church.
To return to the published correspondence between
the rector and the churchwardens of St. Mary, it
appears that on the 9th inst. the latter made a per-
sonal application to him to discontinue the chanting
the creed and the psalms in the parish church on the
first Sunday in the mouth and in St. James's Church
every Sunday ; and they had been emboldened to
make this request after the perusal of certain
"suggestions" to laymen for putting down Roman-
izlng practices in churches, which had been forwarded
to them in their official capacity by the Duke of
Manchester, as chairman of the National Club, and
which "suggestions" they were ingenuous enough to
show to the rector. The day following this interview
the Reverend Gentleman wrote a letter (subsequently
published by him) to Mr. James Hudson, the senior
churchwarden, in which he refused to discontinue the
choral service at St. James's Church. But he states,
at the same time, that " the service on the first Sun-
day in the month, except upon great festivals of the
Church, will be a plain service," in order to meet the
wishes of " a few among the communicants." Ile
further states that "Mr. Churchwarden King," at the
interview referred to, admitted that the churchwar-
dens would not have made the request they had done
to him but for Lord John Russell's letter to the
Bishop of Durham, from which he infers that
the request had not its origin in " a pa-
rochial movement," though it might become
one. The rector then proceeds—" I do not see what
right foreign extra•parochial agitators, however high
in office or in rank they may be, have to interfere in
my parish. Ido not see why we should give their
suggestions a moment's consideration. In plain words,
I do not recognise Lord Jobn Russell, as the Prime
Minister, or his Grace the Duke of Manchester, as the
chairman of the National Club, as having any autho-
rity of any kind whatever, ecclesiastical or civil, in
the parish of Morpeth. * * I should, however,
be sorry to follow the example set by those high iu
office and in rank, and to walk in the path which they
have pointed out—the path of agitation and strife. On
the contrary, as in duty bound, I will do all that I
can to live peaceably with all men, especially to pre-
serve in this parish the peace which has continued,
with no interruption worth mentioning, ever since I
came into residence on Dec. 17, 1842."
The churchwardens have published a reply, in
which they deny that " Mr. Churchwarden King"
attributed the request of himself and his colleagues
to have the choral services discontinued to the
publication of Lord John Russell's letter. To
this, the rector, in a letter in rejoinder,
dated the 12th inatant, reiterates his former
statement respecting " Mr. Churchwarden King's "
admission, and adds, "the impression on my memory
of what took place is so lively, that I should not be
afraid to take an oath in the most solemn way, in a
court of justice, that Mr. Churchwarden King did
make the admission which I have stated him to have
made in my letter." He then invites the " special
attention" of Mr. Churchwarden Douglas, one of the
deputation to him to request a discontinuance of the
chanting, to the circumstance of his having, along
with other of the parishioners, in December, 1846,
signed an address to him (the Rector), approving of
the choral service, and requesting that it might be
continued. The Rector concludes his letter in these
terms :—" I wish to remind you that you and your
colleagues are the churchwardens of St. Mary's
Church, not of St. James's. It is your duty to see
that all things are done decently and in order in St.
Mary's Church. With the mode of worship in St.
James's, you have no more authority to interfere
than any other parishioner." So the matter rests for
the present.

RUTLAND STATUE.—We hare the pleasure to an-
nounce that the casting in bronze of the Rutland Statue has
been completed, and most successfully. The statue is now in
effect finished, and all that rEmaies is to set it up in its place.
In the present state of the Market-place, however, the erec-
tion of the statue must necessarily be delayed until the com-
pletion of the new Market-house— a delay which will be
fully compensated for by the exhibition of the statue among
the works of art in the great Crystal Palace.--Leicester
Journal.

MR. MUNTZ and the CURRENCY.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.
Sir,—l would not
.have troubled you with a se-
cond letter had you not been both personal and
abusive in your article of the 21st inst. I shall not,
however, like you, go into the clouds for evidence
against you and your fallacious reasoning—you have
already been there too long, and there are too many
there like you. There can only be one excuse for
your conduct, and that is, that since my corres-
pondence with your paper, in 1847, you may have
replaced the then editor, for all the charges you now
endeavour to substantiate against me were then met
and refuted. To those who know me and my position
as a commercial lean, your charge or insinuation that
I. wish to pay my debts at 14s. in the pound is an
absurdity, and to them I need not address myself ;
but to all the rest of the world where your paper is
read, and where I ern only known as a member of
the British Legislature, I em bound in duty to my-
self to ask you to show how I, who always have three
times the amount owing to me that I owe to others,
and who can pay all that I owe three times over, can
be otherwise than a loser by any alteration in the
rate of convertibility of paper money, such as I have
proposed.
As to your facts and arguments, I have first to say,
thaty our premises are all false, your arguments contra-
dict each other, and you are utterly ignorant of the
real effects of the proposed alteration upon prices or
wages; you call your own sophistry honesty; and,
as is usually the case, being the great supports r of
thieves yourself, you first call out " Thief" against
every one who dares to differ from you. You com-
plain that I am never tired of explaining my words,
but that is your fault, who always intentionally mis-
construe them ; and simple as you say my doctrine is,
it is evident that your ignorance of all financial and
commercial affairs, which are not understood ei!her
in the clouds or the heathen mythology, renders
you quire incapable cf stating it, if you can compre-
hend it.
I entirely deny your statement, that the national
debt was contracted in heavy money of full tale and
weight. of gold at 31. 17s. 10p. per ounce ; and I
challenge you to show your authority for such au ab-
surd idea. Why, your own account of the greasy
bank-notes, shillings and sixpences as thin as wafers
and knives, and cabinet gold guineas, sold at 275.
each, is former days (which I have seen sold at 325.
each), proves that you know your statement to be
false.
Why, so far from the national debt, being borrowed
in heavy money, more than all the present amount of
800,000,0001. was borrowed at the rate of 601. and
under for Three per Cent. Consols, and the money in
which it was borrowed was worth no more than 10
in the pound in property and produce if compared
with gold at 31. 17s. per oz., and 13s. 41. if
compared with the then price of gold, which not
being required for money, never advanced in the same
ratio as other articles; so that in fact the country
really borrowed only 250,000,0001. Then it should
also be recollected that before the Beek Restriction
Act debts might be paid in silver, by weight or in
tale ; and also that wheat could not be imported at all
till the average was 48s. per quarter (Winchester),
and when as low as 40s. a bounty of sixpence per
bushel was allowed upon the export cf it. But the
great question is this—ls the coin of the United King-
dom of the same value as the circulation ? Any one
who says they are of equal value must be very igno-
rant or very credulous, or both. Can any one really
believe that a country which keeps in active circulation
40,000,0001. in bank notes, to say nothing of bills of
exchange, with about 60,000,000/. in coins, has a circu-
lation of the same value as the coins ? Why, the idea
is preposterous. If such were really the case, why
have any paper in circulation ? why not convert it all,
and solve the question P Why do you all boast of
being able to keep 29 or 30 millions of paper in cir-
culation, whilst 11 millions of it remains in the bank,
and reduces the active circulation to about 18 mil-
lions ? You will say the paper is all convertible. I
ask how, when, end where ? Why, your very parti-
cular friend, the la'.e Sir Robert Peel, declared in my
prep: ace more than once that convertibility alone would
not maintain the value of the paper; and therefore he
carried the Bill of 1844, which I supported with a
view of proving the Bill of 1819, and which the coun-
try is now approaching the full effects of. There is
no better way of judging of the difference in the
real value of the circulation as compared with
the coins, than to leek how small an amount of it
is sufficient to alter prices temporarily. The addi-
tion of four millions of bank paper to the average
active circulation of 18 millions made all the rise in
prices in 1845 ; and the withdrawal of that four mil-
lions, with free imports, has brought the prices of
produce, both commercial and agricultural, to the
lowest rates within the memory of man. It is there-
fore clear that if an addition of four or five millions
to the cash money of the country of 100 millions can
make such a difference in the value of produce, the
alteration necessary in the value of the circulation to
keep wheat at an average of 50s. is nothing like your
proportion of 14s. to 205., whatever may be found to
be the necessary alteration in the coins to enable us to
maintain that extra four to five millions of additional
paper in circulation. You will say that all our ex-
changes with other nations would be altered by any
change in our coins. No doubt they would, or else
the additional paper would be withdrawn from circu-
lation to buy gold fur exportation.
Again, you will say that a foreigner having money
in our funds would be a loser, which would be a
breach of national faith. I admit it, and thus far
I think that national faith should be carried out. The
foreigner who has money in our funds ought to be
paid in full weight and tale; but national faith be-
tween our people—between a fundholder and a land-
holder, farmer, or manufacturer, is complete non-
sense. The Government are as much bound to sup-
port the just and relative position of the one interest
as of the other. Just take the case of two farmers,
both occupied in agriculture in 1814, both having
made 20,0001. by growing wheat at an average of 80s.
per quarter. The one retires, and buys into the funds
at 601., and is now worth full 30,0001 ; the other,
having continued farming, possibly with some little
profit, but probably with considerable loss, is now
called upon to pay his share of the interest of the
30,0001. which was gained by wheat at 80s., although
he must grow the same article at 4(iiis. per quarter.
You may call this national faith, I call it national
robbery. But you say that no alteration of the circu-
lation will improve the condition of the farmer, that it
will only enable him to cheat his creditors and relations;
that his wheat will be only worth 355. of the existing
coinage, and it will purchase no more sugar, tea,
spirits, or tobacco, &c., than it does now; also that
his labourer will require and obtain 13s where he
now gets 9s. Upon all these points I am at issue
with you. All these articles are subject to very
heavy duties, and those duties would remain without
alteration. The price of brandy, with 20s. per gallon
duty upon it, would be about 275. 6d., but whatever
change took place would only affect the 7s. 61, and
possibly might raise brandy to 295. ; it would be less
in tobacco, tea, and sugar, as the duties are lower in
proportion, as would the rise in price be rather more.
Now, as to wages, there are two questions; the one
is, that 93. per week now is far above the ratio of
wheat even at 405., as may be seen by reference to
the rate of wages when wheat was the same price
about 1775 to 1785, before an increase of
paper circulation had affected prices. Wages
then were about 6.7. per week, and' will be
so again if wheat remain at 40s. The other ques-
tion is, whether in case of an altered circula-
tion to keep wheat at an average of 503. agricultural
wages would advance ? I cm decidedly of opinion
that they would not, and all previous times appear to
me to prove that 93. par week for agricultural wages
is quite in ratio with wheat at 50s. I will just say
here, as I did in 1847, that I am not so ignorant as
to propose to carry out any such change instanter ;
all such changes ought to be made as slowly as they
reasonably could, the slower the better, to allow for
the completion of distant transactions. It must be
evident to every one who has well considered the sub-
ject that the pretended power of convertibility is ideal
and delusive; that the only real use of convertibility
is a means to regulate the quantity of paper in circu-
lation, and prevent it from being issued in excess.
But if the point of convertibility, or value of the
coins, be out of accordance with that range of prices
which is necessary for the payment of the taxes, rates,
rent, and other liabilities of the country, the conver-
tibility can only be maintained in that partial manner
which it is now, and which is sufficient for the wants
of the community, by such low prices of manufactures
as shall force themselves all over the world, but
leave no profits for the manufacturers. In 1845 and
1846, when the foreign exchanges were neglected,
and prices of manufactures were advanced so as to
afford a profit, the gold was exported instead of the
manufactures, and the utter impossibility of main-
taining the 1844 Bill, excepting with very low prices,
was clearly proved. The conversion then of four
millions of paper into gold out of twenty-two mil-
lions nearly caused bankruptcy and anarchy, and the
attempt to have converted tour millions more would
have completed the farce. lied the then Government
been as honest as they pretended to be, they would
not have suspended the 1844 Bill until it hod been
acknowledged to be a bad Bill, for they and their op-
ponents had together maintained that it was per-
fection. When I addressed you on the 18th inst. I
was not aware that you had written an article upon
Californian gold, and therefore " I did not think to
catch you upon the hip," but by that article you have
ought yourself upon the hip. Who do you think
will believe your sophistry upon that subject ? If
you are half as honest as you profess to be, be-
lieving, as you say you do,. that all our debts, public
and private, have been contracted for payment in gold,
in full weight and tale, how can you avoid supporting
a law for reducing the Bank price of gold to whatever
rate the importations from California may bring it?
Do you mean to say that, whatever the reduction in
value, the weight of gold alone should pay all debts

both public and private ? I suppose so, as you ex-
press a hope that there may be tht:reby a liquidation
of the national debt. If so, then away with •our
pretensions to honesty, for there is none in you. Take
an extreme case, which is the proper way to view such
a suhject in—suppose that gold increases in abun-
dance, so that it is only worth 4s. per ounce, or 5 per
cent. of its present value, would you say that because
the pound was borrowed in gold of so many grains
in weight, and many debts contracted in it larger in
amount together than the national debt, that such
weight of only one-twentieth of the original value
should be the payment of such debts?
You who pretend that the debts were contracted in
pounds of full weight and tale in gold distinctly imply
that they ought to be paid in full weight and tale of
the value at 3/. 17s. 100.; but I, who deny that any
such contract was made, implied, understood, or even
expected to be carried out, with any one, have a right
to take advantage of the Californian accident, and not
allow any interference with the present law—cer-
tainly none until, if fate so ordains, the value of gold
should be reduced to the amount justly due to the
creditor interest. Once for all, I say, that, measured
iu the coins, the nation's debts are bad debts; they
were not contracted in such coin, they are not due in
such coin, and they never will be paid in such coin,
whoever may live to see the finale. All this you
know much better than you like to admit, as is
proved by your article last week upon the California
gold discoveries, wherein you clearly show that what
you choose to call your honest spontaneous changes
would do all the good that would be done
by my honestly proposed direct and conventional
changes. I see that you have been guilty of a
slight misrepresentation respecting the changes
made in their coins by the Romans. You would
have it appear that their reductions in value
arose from their own revolutions previously to the
establishment of the empire; whereas they were
principally made immediately after the first and se-
cond Punic wars, and really saved the republic from
ruin, as our Act of 1797 saved us from being de-
feated by Napoleon. But the Romans, like the Rus-
sians, were not so weak as to attempt to return to
their original position; they left that attempt to be
made by the wisdom of Englishmen ; and when I have
seen the value of land, produce, and Labour reduced
to the same level as existed i❑ 1775, and that then
both agriculture and commerce are simultaneously
and permanently prosperous, I will believe the object
to be feasible.

To conclude, Sir, I beg leave to say that I shall
be happy to wait upon your remarks, only please to
avoid blackguardism, or I shall soon corisinee you that
I can call things by their right names as well as any-
body. Ido not know it, but the world says that
you are in the constant pay of the moneyocracy ; if
so, I only say, may you become wiser and better.
Yours respectfully,
G. F. MUNTZ.
Ley Hall, near Birmingham, Dec. 23.

(From the Times.)
There are men whose theories are better than
their practice, and there are men whose practice is
better than their theories. Mr. Muntz happily be-
longs to the latter class. As there are advocates of
polygamy, who in practice are content with one wife,
as there are loyal democrats, end amiable abettors of
international hostility, so Mr. Mintz, who is able and
ready, he says, to pay all his debts three times over,
stands up for the grand principle of dishonesty. He
is a platonic bad debtor, and loves insolvency, not
from selfish considerations, but for its own sake.
We can readily believe that he would rather pay all
his creditors 40s. in the pound than 19s. 6d., but only
yesterday he favoured our readers with an argument
to show that the public ought not to pay more than
Gs. 3d. in the pound. That is the precise figure he
would put upon public morality. We have borrowed,
he says, 800,000,000/., and we have no right to pay
more than 250,000,0001. Considering that Mr.
Muntz is owed much more than he owes, and
belongs to the creditor class; considering that
whatever the nation does, he is resolved himself to
act like a gentleman, at least so far as his debts are
concerned, it is impossible to imagine a greater in-
stance of self-immolation. As a private men he wishes
to be honest, as a patriot he wishes his country to set
the world a grand example of scoundrelism. His as-
pirations in behalf of his country are heroic. He
does not wish it to sink under the pressure misfor-
tune, to share a universal disaster, t 1.3 has happened to
many a good and true man ; no, he despises such
constrained insolvency. The splendid destiny he
prays for this empire is that the heyday of its fortunes
and the noontide of its wealth—after struggling with
its difficulties more than thirty years with signal
success—it should suddenly, with its pockets full, its
treasury overflowing, its taxes half abolished, its fixed
capital enormously increased, its metallic circulation
beyond all precedent or example, and its credit at
the highest possible pitch—should, in special conside-
ration of those extraordinary blessings, suddenly
avow its religious determination to pay its creditors
6s. 33. in the pound.
But let us bear our great teacher of voluntary de-
falcation. " More than all the present amount of
800,000,0001. was borrowed at the rate of 601. and
under fur Three per Cent. Consols, and the money in
which it was borrowed was worth no more than 104.
in the pound in property and produce if compared
with gold at 31. 17s. 101 d. per oz. ; 134. 4d. if com-
pared with the then price of gold, which, not being
required for money, never advanced in the same ratio
as other articles ; so that in fact the country really
borrowed only 250,000,000/." Here's a respectable
doctrine fur a respectable man to preach to a respect-
able country. When a pecuniary engagement or any
other engagement comes into a British court of law
the great question always is, What are the terms
and significance of this engagement ? What is
the exact nature of this promise ? Forthwith the
document, if any, is closely overhauled, and if it is
absolute and unconditional, then, on proof of the
handwriting and such facts, the obligation ex-
pressed in the document is established. But what
says Mr. Muntz? He says, " Take into account that
the signer of the document was at the time in very
low credit ; find out the terms which his creditors
were obliged to pay for getting his bills discounted ;
and strike off the amount of that discount from the
signer's present obligation. He undertook to pay
the interest of his bond in promissory notes, and as
both the undertaking and the promissory notes were
current at less than their nominal value, here was a
double discount, and the debtor should now have
the full benefit cf that double discredit." Such is
the effect of Mr. Muntz's doctrine. As we can re-
cognize no difference between a private and a public
debtor, we will take an individual case. The Earl
of Entails, a nobleman of large property and of a
high spirit, has embarked into divers expensive under-
takings. Besides rebuilding the family mansion, he
has dug canals, opened collieries, drained messes, built
churches, planted mountains, and done everything
that a great man should do who is confident in his

opinions and ignorant of his resources. To give
his affairs the coup de grace, he is engaged in several
lawsuits for the recovery of some family estates ; and,
in the agony of his firtunes, when pressed for money
on all sides, gave bonds for 1001. on the receipt of
just half the amount in hard cash. His affairs becom-
ing more desperate nobody would work for him ex-
cept at very high rates, and he had to give his bond
for 1001. in payment of an account for 501., when
every item was overcharged 30 or 40 per cent. and the
real consideration received was not more than 301.
However, Lord Entails just managed to keep his
head above water, and his bonds passed from hand to
hand at a decent value. In process of time he won
his lawsuits, got good crops from his bogs and good
coal from his pits, and was so well known to be in
a condition to pay off bis bonds iu the full that they
were current at their full nominal value. At this
moment, however, he had the misfortune to meet
with an evil adviser, who shall be nameless, but who

instigated him to insist on compounding with his
creditors on the principle of paying only at the rate
of value received. So Lord Entails, with the name-

less gentleman at his elbow, is to sit down, to consider
the work actually done and the articles actually de-
livered, offer their present value to the holders of the
bonds, viz., 301. for every 1001. promised. Now, we
respectfully beg our great apostle of national delin-
quency to tell us how my Lord Entails would fare in
a court of justice or any company of gentlemen in
this empire ; that is if, having the power to pay in
full, he refused to pay more than 30 per cent.

But Mr. Muntz will meet us with a flat denial that
the country can pay in full. He says that our paper
currency, and the debts contracted in it, are not really
convertible. Here are his words :—" The great ques-
tion is this,—ls the coin of the United Kingdom of
the same value as the circulation ? Any one who

says that they are of equal value must be very igno-
rant, or very credulous, or both. Can any one really
believe that a country which keeps in active circula-
tion 40,000,0001._ in back notes, to say nothing of bills

of exchange, with about 60,000,0001. in cuing, has a
circulation of the same value as the coins? Why,
the idea is preposterous. If such were really the case
why have any paper in circulation ? Why not con-
vert it all, and solve the question ?" if Mr. Muntz
really doub`s the convertibility of our paper currency,
he had better take fifty 1,0001. notes to the Bank of
England and present them for payment, and if after
ten minutes delay a clerk bands over the amount in
new sovereigns of the abominable 31. 17s. 10d. per
oz. value, then Mr. Muntz may go away satisfied
that to all intents and purposes a bank note is conver-
tible. If this is not sufficient, let the whole of the
Birmingham currency school change their property
into bank notes, make a pilgrimage to London, and
make a run on the Bank. The question of converti•
bility solvitur ambulanclo—that is, to Threadneedle-
street. " Enough is as good as a feast," and a man
who can pay every bill as fast as it is presented is as
solvent as the man who keeps a supply of cash equi-
valent to all his outstanding bills in his parlour cup-
board. But what sensible man ever allowed himself

to be haunted by the whole of a possibility, when
only a small part of it was within the range of pro •
bability ? The idea that we should always be pre -
pared for the whole of what is conceivable, and that
nothing short of this is prudent or true, is just such
a nightmare as might invade the slumbers of a puzzle-
headed schoolboy after three slices of Christmas plum-
pudding. The experience of 30 years proves that
with an occasional hitch, easiiy got over, a compara-
tively small stock of bullion is sufficient to keep a
paper currency practically convertible. At all events,
if Mr. Muntz denies that a 51. note is at this moment
convertible into gold, let him walk to the Bank of
England, or ask any sane perscn he may chance to
have about him.

Everybody wLo has been out of England knows
that throughout the whole civilized world there is
nothing so appreciable, so stable, and so perfectly ne-
gotiable as a Bank of England note, or anything to
which the word of this country is pledged in an equal
degree. Mr. Kuntz, to do him justice, cannot quite
swallow the loss of this item in our national glory.
He cannot quite stand seeing a Bank of England note
growing fumbled, ragged, and greasy iu a pocket of
a Paris tradesman, and sold to a Hebrew for 305,, or
a German merchant not meeting his bills becauie
his money had been invested in our Three per
Cent. Consols. So hero is his inethoed of meeting
this ohjection. " You will say that a foreigner
having money in our funds would be a lo:A,r,
wt ich vtould be a _ breach of rational faith. 1

admit it, and thus far I think that national faith
ought to be carried nut. The foreigner who has
money in our funds ought to be paid in full weight
and tale; but national faith between ou. people—be•
tweeu a fundholder and a landholder, farmer or ma-
nufacturer—is complete nonsense. The Governmtnt
is as much bound to support the just and relative
position of the one interest as of the other." The Go-
vernment is hound to do, first of all, that which it
has expressly promised to do. ft has expressly pro-
mited to pay five pounds to the bearer of a 5/. note,
and then three or three-and-a- half pounds annually,
to the holders of certain stock. When it has dis-
charged this written, express, and prior obligation, it
may then proceed to the performance of its sublimer
function desccibecl by Mr. Muntz—viz , the support of
the just and relative position of the several interests
in the country. Our lawyers are in the habit of
regarding a written promite as of prior obligation to
a natural duty, and all respectable Governments
adopt the same rule. But how happy, how ingenious,
and, above all, how practicable would this distinction
of Mr. Muntz's prove. The Parisian Rothschild is
still to receive his three per cent. for his Consols in
three sovereigns of the existing coinage; the London
Rothschild is to receive in virtue of the very same
document just 18s. 93., that being Mr. Muntz's
equitable adjustment of the fundholding claims. Why,
of course, if there were the least chance of the distinc-
tion being observed, all our funds would pass, nomi-
nally at least, into foreign hands. But is the distinc-
tion anything more than a jest ? We will re-
turn to the case of our friend Lord Entails.
With his Mentor at his elbow, his Lordship
is to say to his tradesmen and other credi-
tors :—" Gentlemen, you are all interested in
my welfare. Were I to be ruined you would all
feel the shock. Would you like to see my house dis-
mantled, my domains disparked, my servants all dis-
charged, and all my expenditure withdrawn from
this neighbourhood ? My neighbours and fellow-
countrymen must excuse my offering them only
6s. 33. in the pound on their claims against me. But,
gentlemen, if you will go to Barcelona, or Valparaiso,
renounce your allegiance to Queen Victoria, become
the subject of some foreign sovereign or republic,
change your religion, your morals, your manners, and
your dress, and lose your identity altogether, in that
case I feel it my unquestionable duty to send you
most punctually 20s. in the pound of your debts ; and
when half the convex world' rolls between us, you
may rely on my faithful discharge of this sacred
duty." That, in fact, is Mr. Muntz's promise to the
foreign fundholder. Its value we leave to these who
know whether " distance lends enchantment" to the
sense of pecuniary obligations.

THE CURRENCY QUESTION.
(From the Derbyshire Courier.)
The Times of Saturday last contains a long article
in reply to a communication from Mr. Muntz, the
Member for Birmingham. We do not intend to enter
into the immediate matter of dispute between the
Times and Mr. Muntz, only observing, with respect
to that gentleman's proposition, that we believe a more
comprehensive system of monetary reform, based upon
principles tested alike by philosophy and experience,
may, without difficulty, be established in this country.
It is to the general bearing of the remarks of the
Times on the currency question that we wish to call
the attention of our readers. One observation, how-
ever, we wish to make with respect to the manner in
which it pleases the Times to refer to Mr. Muutz's
proposition. We fled that paper speaking of Mr.
Munta as " preaching the superior convenience of
cheating our creditors." The alteration he proposes
is called " a piece of rascality ;" the means he
recommends fur ameliorating the condition of the
agricultural body are raid to be " dishonest."
The Times and Mr. Muntz take, no doubt, a widely
different view of financial matters. But we think that
the Times will find out that it makes a mistake in
applying these coarse terms of vituperation to the
Member for 'Birmingham. The public and private
character of Mr. Muntz is well known ; his integrity
as a British merchant is unquestionable. We differ
from many of his political opinions ; but where in the
House of Commons shall we find a man who has in a
more manly, honest, uncompromising manner, inva-
riebly expressed the sincere convictions of his own
mind, or more earnestly endeavoured—whether er-
roniously or otherwise—to benefit the great masses of
his fellow-countrymen? The effects of what Mr.
Muntz proposes as to the currency,
.may or may not
be injurious to the country, but the imputation of
advocating fraudulent or dishonest measures proves
that the writer in the Times entirely misunderstands
the principles on which Mr. Muntz grounds his
proposition, or that the cause which renders
necessary the use of such " unparliamentary"
language is a weak and bad one. But to take
the case as stated by the Times. Mr. Muntz it ap-
pears advocates " such an alteration in the rate of
convertibility of our paper as should be in ratio with
those prices of property, produce and labour, which
should enable us to meet our liabilities."
We give the instances of the Times to which this
" doctrine" may, it is said, be supposed to apply. "A
man whose property consists in land worth 1,0001.
owes twice that sum, and of course cannot pay it.
A second man, whose farm yields him a profit of
1001. a year, owes 2,0001., and of course cannot pay
the interest of his debt without running still deeper
into debt for his household expenses. A third man,
having a wife and family, earns lOs. a week, and
having pledged himself to pay half a crown a week
out of it, finds himself rather pinched."
Here then are, a landowner and a tenant farmer
ruined—the case we fear of thousands at present—
and a labouring man " rather pinched," which we
may take to mean with a family half starved—as we
fear will be the case with many labourers before long.
Let us ask, how came these persons into this condi-
tion ? We need not adopt, as the Times afterwards
says, " precisely the rate" of the liabilities.
Between 1797 and 1815 wheat ranged between
80s. and 90s. a qr., on the average. Suppose the
landowner, encouraged by the recorded unanimous
vote of Parliament that the improvement of waste
and unproductive lands is "a most essential public
advantage," to have mortgaged a part of his estate to
improve the condition of the whole, as Sir James
Graham puts it. With the then existing price of
corn the interest of his mortgage could be paid with-
out difficulty. An alteration takes place in the
monetary system, but the landowner is told
that he shall not be injured; his wheat shall be
"protected" up to 80s. a qr. But severe distress
pervades the country. The landowner is in-
formed that he must submit to a reduction of
price, his wheat shall be protected up to 70s. a
qr., by and bye up to 645. per qr., then up to 5Gs. a
qr. At every reduction the landowner finds the en-
cumbrance on his property virtually increased. As
the price of the produce of his land declines he must
lower his rent, but his bond requires the same amount
of money to be paid. Acts of Parliament to which
he trusted are repealed one after another, and at last
he learns that the " good of the country" requires that
he shall sell his corn at " the price of the world."
Ruin now stares him in the face, but when he men-
tions the idea of an " equitable adjustment"—vs hen
he says, " I entered into certain pecuniary engage-
ments on the faith of repeated Acts of Parliament;
you have altered the value of those engagement. I am
paying two quarters of wheat, when I engaged and
expected to pay one, adjust' my engagement to exist-
ing circumstances"—then be is met with the epithets of
fraudulent, and dishonest, and called a coiner, a forger,
a swindler. Now surely this is harsh dealing; and ob-
serve the same ruinous process is being applied to the
tenant farmer whose fixed money payments are not,
and cannot in this highly taxed country, be reduced
in proportion to the fall in price of his produce ; who
has invested his capital in the land and cannot with-
draw it, who feels ruin coming upon him daily, and
sees the frugal savings of years, the portion for his
children, the provision for their mother, melting away,
however tenaciously he may clutch them. And the
labourer's turn must, we fear, come. These three
" unfortunates," as the Times calls them, with all their
" struggling and striving," will only get worse. A
measure of merciful adjustment is proposed. The
industrious classes, particularly at this time the agri-
cultural classes, are being pressed down to the earth.
" Have mercy," says the Member for Birmingham.
"No," says the Times, "England has promised to
pay so many pounds of gold." But we take
our stand as Currency Reformers and say,
" We do not ask for Mercy, we ask for Justice."
lute deny that England ever "promised to pay

so many pounds of gold." At the time of the Bank
Restriction Act, in 1757, neither the people of Eng-
land, nor the Minister, nor threParliament understood
what the effects of that measure would be. Pitt had
no conception of the results of that mighty machine
which lie was putting in motion. He never imagined
a debt of eight hundred millions. In December, 1803,
the Parliament, in total ignorance of what they were
doing, enacted that the Bank restriction should con-
tinue till six months after the establishment of peace,
no precaution whatever being taken to secure the
paper money of the nation from depreciation, as it is
called. In 1811 a solemn resolution of the House of
Commons declared that a one pound note and a
shilling were equivalent to a golden guinea—
guineas at that time selling openly for 245.
lu 1819 it was stated that a return to cash
payments would alter prices only to the extent
of four or perhaps five per cent. ; and nine years after-
wards Mr. Bankes stated in his place in the House
of Commons, that be, as a member of the Committee
of 1819, was entirely misled, that every member of
that Committee was misled, by witnesses totally un-
informed, who talked of a fall of prices of 4, or 5, or
G per cent., when experience bed shown that prices
had been affected 20, 30, or 40 per cent. This was
stated in the presence of Sir Robert Peel, and he did
Lot, because he could not, contradict it. Parliament
acted throughout in entire ignorance of what they
we're doieg. Neither the Parliament nor the neople
of Eigland ever understood, either in 1797, or during
the war, or at the peace, or in 1819, that for every
paper pound which they had burrowed they were
to pey a gold pound worth in corn, or iron, or
cloth, or oiler commodities 30 or 40 per cent.
more than the money's worth of what was lent
to tloee. And now when the laws which were
inteeded by the Legislature to keep up the price
of corn lad support the great trade of the country
have been aboliehed " for tie good of the people," are
t.e laws which were not intended to enhance the
value of money, but which have had that tl7ect, to be
retained for the good of the fundholder, the mortgagee,
and the capitalist? The great interest of the Eng-
lish people is a debtor interest. The large and small
landholder, the farmer, the mariulacturer, all the in-
dustrial clesses, the I,heurer and the operative, have
to pay with their produce, or with the labour of their
bands, the i❑terest of the enormous public and pri-
vate indebtedness which their fathers incurred. It is
just that they should pay what was borrowed; it is
not just that they should pay much more than was
borrowed. All the vituperative epithets hurled by the
Times at Mr. Muntz might with justice be applied to
that paper. It is the Times which stands forward in
the character of the Jew money lender, to demand
from the productive classe s of England that the sums
advanced by him, the lender, in the shape of cannon
balls, broadcloth, revolving pistols, paving stones, or
his own paper articles on every possible side of every
possible question during the last 50 years—neatly
bound in folio volumes—should be paid by the un-
wary borrower in hard cash. It is the Times which,
taking advantage of the mistake of the pound makers,
insists on a heavy pound being paid for a light pound,
and seizing the " unfortunate" creditor by the throat,
exclaims, "Pay me that thou owest."

But there is-another consideration respecting our
Monetary Laws. Not only are the people of England
obliged to psy more than they borrowed, but the exist-
ing monetary system fetters their industry and cramps
the energies of the nation. The law by which our
circulating medium is made to depend on a hr.-ids of
gold fixed in price, produces every few years a mone-
tary crisis. Gold is withdrawn, the Bank contracts
its issues, prices are forced down, ruin follows, and
the accumulation of years of industry is sacrificed.
And all this without any good object. The converti-
bility of the bank nate into gold at a fixed price is a
mere political fiction. The Bank never can so con-
vert its notes when there is a demand for gold. The
depreciation of the currency is also a subject of
groundless alarm. When Peel's Bill ceases for a
time to act, and the currency expands, prices rise,
and the purchasing power of the pound falls; this is
called the depreciation of the pound. But who com-
plains ? In the general prosperity of the country
the fundholder and annuitant participate, and find a
compensation which amply repays them for the rise
in 'slice of the commodities which they consume. We
write for no class. We believe that the interests of
the rich capitalist—of the moneyocracy—ere involved
in this question. For let another panic come,
and means will be found of reaching them. Mr.
Ssrnuel Gurney is not a revolutionist, but a
sober, steady, succsssful money dealer, and he
tells us that unless a better monetary system be
adopted, " the revenue will not ho msintained nor the
dividends paid." We have cheap fosd. We want
cheap money. Gold, as Well as corn, at " the price
of the world." We watt small notes (11.) made as
safe as gold, in abundance but not in excess, and free
trade in money as well as in the commodities for
which money exchanges. We sincerely hope that
the monied interest will see, before it is too late, the
importance of consulting the general welfare. We
am them to be wise in time. Let them not, as Sir
'Tames Graham told another powerful body, pursue
their class interests "at the expense of, and in oppo-
sition to, the entire community. Let them be on their
guard."

NOTTINGHAMSHIRE COUNTY
FRIENDLY SOCIETY.
On Friday evening, December 20th, a meetirg, in
furtherance of the above society, was held in the boys'
National School-room, 011erton, which was nume-
rously attended. Amongst these Present we noticed
Rev. J. B. Cobham, Rev. R. Pocklington, Rev. J.
Twells, Itcv. J. C. 131. Aynsley, W. J. Pickin, Esq.,
W. J. Gregory, Esq., W. Clutton, Etq-, J. Doncas-
ter, Esq., &c.

The hes. J. B. COBHAM occupied the chair on the
Occasion, and, in a brief speech, opened the business
of the meeting ; atter which,
The Rev. A. 0. FITZGERALD, honorary secretary
to the society, in a very able mintier explained the
objects of the society, showing the advantages
to be derived by being members, and the supe-
riority Lied security of this over any of the ex-
isting or old societies, in consequence of their
being unable to support the promised benefits,
arising partly from the unequal rates of pay-
ments ; stating that, in this proposed society, each
member subscribes according to age. He also ex-
pleined many of the rules and tables, which have been
carefully drawn up—the former in conformity with
the provision of the Friendly Society Act passed
during the late session of Parliament—the latter, pre-
pared by Mr. Neilson, the eminent actuary, with eepe-
cial reference to the average rate of sickness and
mortality in this county, which comprise allowance
in sickness, deferred annuities, provision at death,
endowments en attaining various ages, &c. The
Rev. Gentleman stated be would be glad to answer
any questions any one might think proper to put.
In consequence of this offer, several present proposed
various questions, which gave rise to much conversa-
tion and discussion upon the subject.
The Rev. J. TWELLS then addressed the meeting in
his usual energetic manner, showing the great secu-
rity this society gave to its members, having the no-
bility, &c., of the county es supporters and managers,
as also the trotection of Government, in whose hands
the monies are invested in the names of six gentlemen
of the county, who have engaged to be trustees ; and
endeavoured also to inculcate in the minds of those
present, especially the labouring classes, the duty of
Leing provident whilst in health to ensure that as-
sistance rc quired when in sickness. He rejoiced in
the improvement that society was making, and con,.
sidered the objects of the proposed club as one fea-
ture to bring about that improvement—but that reli-
gious education was the only thing to produce that
reformation which he desired to see.

W. D. Prcicix, Esq , then read a resolution to the
following effect :—" That an adjourned meeting be
held in the same room on the first Monday in Ja-
nuary, for the purpose of receiving the names and
subscriptions of those persons willing to become mem-
bers, and to form a branch society for 011erton and
neighbouring villagrs ;" and in doing so made a few
remarks expressing the high opinion he entertained of
the principles of the proposed society, and that
nothing less than a great anxiety to benefit the poor
man urged him to take any part in the movement,
which should have his support and sanction.
W. CLUTTON, Esq., seconded the resolution, and
expressed his satisfaction at seeing so many assembled
on the occasion, and also his willingness to assist in
any way that lay in his power to advance tho in-
terests of the working classes.
The resolution was put and carried.
The Rev. J. TWELLS proposed, and W. J. GRE•
GORY, Esq., seconded, a vote of thanks to the Rev.
A. 0. FiTzgerald for his kindness in attending the
meeting, and explaining the matter in so clear and
lucid a manner.

After a vote of thanks to the Chairtnan, the bene-
diction was pronounced, and the meeting separated
highly pleased.

Many prospectuses and copies of the rules were
given away.—Derbyshire Courier.

THE MINISTERS AND THE POPISH QUESTION.--
We understand that there is still a considerable diversity of
opinion in the Cabinet, relative to the course which ought to
be adopted with regard to the aggressions of the Pope. The
Premier, Lord Palmerston, and the Marquis of Lansdowne,
are said to be in favour of resorting to energetic measures, so
as to prevent the possibility of any similar presumption, on
the part of the Pope, on a future occasion ; while the Earl
of Clarendon, Earl Grey, Sir Charles Wood, and Sir George
Grey are said to be in favour of non-interference. It is
right, however, to add, that the differences existing in the
Cabinet on the queition are understood to be partly patched
up for the present. A tacit understanding has been come to,
that no member of the Ministry will take any step which
could endanger the ex'stence of the Cabinet until after the
meeting of Parliament. The rumoar, therefore, is ground-
less, which has had some currency and credit in the clubs, to
' the effect that a break up of the Ministry was on the eve of
occurring.—Advertiser. _ _

The latest accounts from Killarcey are that Mr.
Daniel O'Connell is pregressing favourably, under the lOU
of his twu fingers and thumb.