The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-12 00:00:00

or purchase, or, perheps, a of both. He supposed
that they had both for the advantage of the mercantile
interest. If it were of no use to them, he asked in God's
name of what use they were to the country? He found
that they sent their maunfactures to both places.
Now, ho asked, could they with safety to these colo-
nies reduce their army; or could they take away their
army from Ireland? If the Noble Lord opposite could
with confidence re'iuce ths. troops by 9,000 a year, he
would do so. The Noble Lord could not do that —he
could have no confidence in the tranquillity of Ireland,
where thousands were starving; for at this moment he
licked upon the people of Ireland as the most pauperised
and the most helpless t ) be found amongst all the civi-
I'm(' nations on the face of the earth, and therefore he said
that they dare not withdraw their troops from Ireland.
—(Hear.) And then they knew this, that there was nut
at the present moment a crowned head in Europe that
was not sustained by the f irce of bayonets.—(Herr.)
There were from 300,000 to 400,000 soldiers in France,
as well 2S in Prussia, and seeing this he said it would be
the worst possible policy for the English to reduce their
army below the proper standard.—(Hear.) It was said
with railways they required less soldiers. Railways
is ore of use in case of an invasion; but they were of no
use in CASe of an internal commotion. In such a case, it
they reduced the troops, theyiwould find some of the

manu!aeturing distric s without troops. Let them sup-
pose thlt there was a row iu Liverpool, and that the
troops ►►ere rent there to check the disturbance, then
hose who ruiglit be disposed to excite commotion could
get by the train in one hour to Manchester, and burn
property. The Manchester people would then require
troops. They would be wanted at both places at the same
time. The persons in Manchester would complain that
they paid taxes as well as those in Liverpool, ant! were
eetitled to the same protection. In point of fact,
the troops were mainly quartered in these districts. In
Wales there was scarcely a single, soldier. In Scotland,
with the exception of Glasgow and Edinburgh, there
were scarcely any troops. In the rural districts there
was scarcely a single soldier to Le found.—(Hesr.) The
who'e force was kept up merely to defend the property
of Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—(Hear, hear.) And yet
with all this they heard constantly repeated outside the
walls of that House that the army was kept up to pro-
vide fur the aristocracy.-7(flear.) It was unjust and
unfair to the army fur men without any knowledge of the
manner in which it was compce.el thus to speak of it.
The aristocracy was not provided for in the army more
than any other class of her Majesty's subjects. The ob•
servation as to the aristocracy did not apply to any of
the troops, with the exception of the Household Brigade

and the Guares—and even amongst them was to be
found a fair sprinkling from other cusses; whereas more
than one-half of the officers in their heavy cavalry regi-

ments were the sons of mercantile men, and in the ma.

tines, the artillery, and the engineers, there was scarcely
one officer connected with the aristocracy; whilst as to

the officers of the line, it was notorious that almost every
interest was fairly represented in it.—(Hear, hear.)
The Honourable Member fir Montrose had declared
that there were 45,000 more men this year than in 1835,
arid to make out that calculation he includel men in
their dockyards, some of whom were not employed
more than one week. As to the Hon. Member tor the
West Riding, he had affirmed that they had more
officers than was necessary—that there was one officer
to every twelve men. He did not know how the
Hon. Gentleman, with his powers of calculation, was
able to make out that statement. Taking the number
of officers and of men they did not make up the amount
of lin 12. Taking out of the number those who were
not working officers they would find the officers were
not 1 in 12, but 1 in 30 ; and taking all classes
of officers, including the surgeons, they were
not lin 12, but lin 18. What with officers sick, &c.,
there was scarcely enough of officers, and they often
heard from India that they had not officers enough.
The Hon. Gentleman, the Member for the West Riding
had also said that he had taken advice as to the com-
position and management cf their army, from officers,
not officers of the English army, but officers of Hanover
or Ihnigary—(Laughter) for one authority was as
good as the other.—(Laughter.) Now, he said they
were not to be bound by the authority of foreigners ;
they were equal to all foreigners; they were superior to
em; and it:the lion. Gentleman liked their discipline,
be (Captain Boldero) could say that ho did rot. In
conclusion, he begged to say, that if a reduction such
as proposed were adopted, it would tend to promote dis-
content and disaffection iu every part of her Majesty's
dominions.

Mr. MACGREGOR gave credit to her Majesty's
Government for the reductions effected by their, and
which coincided with calculations of his own some few
years since. He stated the number of troops employed
by foreign Governments, and then added, anxious as he
was to reduce taxation, and especially the window-tax,
whenever the revenue would enable him to do it—he
sail that he was aware that the present Chancellor of
the Exchequer was as anxious to reduce expenditure
and economise the finances of tte country as any man
could 'sensibly be.
Sir 13. HALL, was bound t) say that whenever the
troops were called upon to act in this country they al-
ways acted with extraordinary forbearance. At the
same time, being anxious to reduce the taxation of the
country, he could not vote for a continuance of this ex-
penditure; and tif,er the discussion that was now taking
place, followed as it would be by a division, the Noble
Lord would be able to say to many Hon. Gentlemen
that they would not vote for a redttetion of taxation be-
cause they had voted for expenditure. As a landed
proprietor, he would be glad if there was a reduction ef
taxation, and as a representative of a metropolitan bo-
rough, he desired a repeal of the window-tax, and it
was to enable him to do so with a safe conscience that
he would vote for the proposal of his Hon. Friend.
They were in a situation in which they could reduce
their army; they were at peace with the world, and the
crown of their Monarch was not like that of foreign
Sovereigns, for it was net, as the Hon. and Gallant
Member for Chippenham had declared, "sustained by
Layonets."
Captain BOLDERO explained.
Mr. STANFORD, though not familiar with army
accounts, had taken the trcuble of going through these
estimates page by page, and could not help expressing
his admiration at the manner in which they had been
prepared. Every discredit had attempted to be thrown
on that noble service.--(Oh, oh.) There was a party
in this country, and he had during the recess read
a pamphlet written by ono of them, who asserted
that the army was maintained fir the bene-
fit of the aristocracy, and that regiments were
merely speculations of the colonels. Any man, how-
ever, of plain common understanding, without being a
military man or familiar with accounts, could take up
these estimates, see how every shilling was spent, and
whether any one item was capable of reduction or not,
upon which he would not then enter. He thought it
creditable to any Government to have placed such clear
estimates before the country. The point under consi-
deration was, whether the Government asked for a
larger force than was necessary to maintain peace at
home, the dignity of the empire abroad, and likewise to
preserve our colonial possessions. With regard to the
first, it was perfectly clear that there must be a sufficient
force at home to back the law. Of what avail 'would be
the sentences of judges, if there was no force at hand to
enf Tee them. It might be said that they might be
carried out by the means of the police force. That he
denied. When Honourable Gentleman opposite voted
for these reductions in the name of the people, he should
be glad if they would explain what they meant by the
word people. Did they include amongst them the pick-
pockets, thieves, convicts, and mendicants, that large
body which belonged to what were called the
dangerous classes ? These, according to an eminent
statist, amounted to no less than 60,000 or 70,000,
always ripe for anarchy and confusion. Was it to be
supposed that such men were to be kept in restraint by
3,000 or 4,000 constables. This country was not France,
with but one metropolis to keep in order. There was
Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, and Glasgow, with
from 200,000 to 300,000 inhabitants each, each requiring
a garrison, not to tyrannise over the people, or deprive
them of their political liberties and rights, but to pre-
vent disorder. It was monstrous to hear men get up and
talk of Englishmen being tyrannised over, when every
country admired our constitution, and adopted it as a
model in constructing their own out of the embryo of re-
volution. Where were the petitions asking the House
to disband our forces, or reduce them? Where there
any from either this eountry or the colonies? They
might desire reduction of taxation, but he knew of no
application for reduction in this direction, the result of
which would be to check the spread of our commerce by
withdrawing protection from our colonies. Why, it was
asked, were 2,000 men maintained in New Zealand,
where there where only a few savages to keep
in check? Why, a perusal of the dispatches from
that colony would show that it was principally from
the inadequacy of the force maintained there
that the war had: been so much prolonged. In
Canada, too, it was said, what necesaity can
there be for maintaining 5,000 men? Better give them a
constitution. It was unnecessary to go now into the
causes of the late rebellion; but would any one main-
t iin that a reduction of the force would not have in-
creased the desire of America to obtain that colony?
At the Cape it was equally clear that a strong force was
requisite to resist the constant attscks of the Kafiri on
the frontier. He rather doubted the trustworthiness of
the sources from which the Hon. Member for the West

Riding drew his fact;.— lie did not wish to cast any.im-
putation on the Hon. Member, but, when imputations
were cast on the distinguished hero who was a glory to
his country, and whose name would be handed down to
posterity surrounded by a halo of renown, he had a right
to doubt anything coming from such a source.
The Honourable Member fJr the West Riding
had also spoken slightingly of cur naval force.
He vim sorry that any natural-born British subject
should desire to depreciate that service, and must re-
gard him, if not au alien in blood, at least an alien in
spirit. lie was glad to hear the Minister state that he
was determined not to suffer one of our colonies to be

taken from us, and to support that determination, which
was supported on both sides, he must necessarily come
down to the House and ask f,r an adequate force. It
would not bo doing the Government justice, which be
IN as always disposed to render them, after they had made
all these reductions. when they had brougLt our forces
at low as they could be consistently with the mainte-
nacce of our position abroad and the maintenance of our
colonies, to call on them to make a further reduction of
so great an extent. He was not ordinarily a supporter
of the Government, but on this occasion they should have
his sincere and honest support, when they had come
manfully forward, and, disdaining all low arts of popu-
larity, had shown themselves desirous to maintain the
honour and glory of their country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. OSBORNE said that the Hon. Member who had
just addressed the House seemed to have gathered his
idea of the army from the proceedings of the select ves-
try of which he was at one time a Member—he. seemed
to look upon it as a sort of new police.—(Hear, hear.)
And when he asked where was the cry for the reduction
of the army he seemed to have forgotten. the complaint
of that same select vestry against the =pew rate for