The Sun.
London, England, 1844-12-07 00:00:00

COURT OF SEWERS.
A Court of Sewers for the City and Liberty of West-
minster, and part of the County of Middlesex, was held
yesterday evening in the office, 1, Greek-street, Soho-
square. T. L. Donaldson, Esq., in the chair.
After the routine business of the Court had been dis-
posed of,
The CHAIRMAN rose to bring before the Court a no-
tice he had caused to be inserted in the paper ;for the
day. It was to "call the attention of the Court, in order
to ascertain whether a Commissioner has the power of
withdrawing the books from the officers, or otherwise
interfering with them in the discharge of their duties ;
and to consider the regulations to be adopted in refer-
ence to this subject." There was no position so painful
on the part of a Chairman in the whole' range of
duties, ;than the being obliged, by a sense of public duty,
to bring forward matter that might appear personal to
any Hon. Commissioner ; bat be must, as Chairman, be
considered the confidential adviser of the officers gone-
rally, and therefore always reaey to receive any informa-
tion, and to remove any obstacle to the efficient per-
formance of their duties. An Hon. Commissioner, well
known for his indefatigable zeal, for his close attention
to the business of the Court, and for his unwearied dili-
gence, had occupied a considerable portion of time during
the past year in making inquiries from the officers, in
order to put himself in possession of the various trans
actions of that Court. Nothing could be mote com-
mendable than this—showing, as it did, a more than
ordinary anxiety to make himself thoroughly acquainted
with his obligations as a Commissioner, and with the
business of that office ; but when that Commissioner
paid but too little deference to the feelings of others--
Mr.' LESLIE —You had better name me at once.
The CHAIRMAN—No. He wished to act on the broad
principle of a desire to know the limits of an Hon.
Commissioner's power, and what was for the future to
be the relative position of himself, of Hon. Commis-
sionors, and of the officers of that Court ? This Hon.
Commissioner had examined accounts at various times—
he had the officers before him to examine and to cross-
examine. Whether this was at all within the province
of an Hon. Commissioner, and whether he was em-
powered to do so, was a great and serious question on
his (the Chairman's) mind. These inquiries might
arise from a desire of investigating into the truth of cer-
tain alleged facts ; but this might also arise from a de-
sire to catch the officers tripping, and so to bring charges
against them at the several sittings of the Court. But
he (the Chairman) must also add, that the Hon. Com-
missioner in this case, in pursuing these investigations,
had done so in a manner neither pleasing nor satisfactory
to the officers. lie had examined them in a mode
harsh, offensive, and unjust, such as was not at all con-
templated in the terms of the Commission. A short
time since he had occasion to look at some book be-

longing to the clerk of the works, which he had thought
proper to take into his own custody, but ulti-
mately he handed it over not to the chief of
that, but to the chief of another department. He would
now read a letter from Mr. Hawkins, the assistant-sur-
veyor, containing the matter which he had thought of
sufficient importance to bring in this manner before the
notice of the Court. The Chairman then read the letter
in question, dated the 19th of November, in which the
writer complained that Mr. Leslie had detained a certain
book of levels, and had handed it over to Mr. Hertzlett,
the principal clerk, with instructions not to part with it.
The writer had asked Mr. Leslie for the book, but that
Hon. Commissioner would not return it unless he
(Mr. Hawkins) would guarantee that no alterations or
erasures would be permitted on it. Under these cir-
cumstances, he had felt it his duty to communicate with
the Chairman on the subject.
Mr. MULLINS—That was a matter of grave impor-
tance.—(Cries of " Chair, chair," and repeated inter-
ruptions.) As a Court of Record, he submitted that no
hypothetical case could come under the cognisance of
that Court. A statement had been made of an uncalled-
for interference with an officer by an Honourable Com-
naisssoner. He wished that Hon. Commissioner's name
mentioned. It might, indeed, be inferred that Mr.
Leslie's was meant ; but when a charge of such an im-
portant character was made, it was but right that the
individual intended should be mentioned to the Court.
The CHAIRMAN—Oh, Mr. Leslie is the gentleman I
mean.
Mr. LAURIE objected, on a point of order. He quite
agreed with the Hon. Commissioner who had spoken
last, but he would suggest that a special day be appointed
for the consideration of this subject after the Chairman
should have furnished his statement. He would, there-
fore, propose that the regular business of the Court go
on—(No, no, no)—and then let them, at a future oppor-
tunity, deal with this charge against Mr. Leslie.
The CHAIRMAN thought that if Hon. Commissioners
were allowed, on other occasions, to go on without inter-
ruption, the same courtesy might be conceded to him.
Mr. LESLIE really would wish that the Chairman
should be heard.
Mr. CANTWELL—If not too much trouble, I would
wish that letter of Mr. Hawkins read again.—(" No, no,
it hes been read already.")
The CHAIRMAN—Now the question was, had gentle-
men a right to take away the books of certain officers,
and to transfer them to other officers? If that were to
be allowed, where, he asked, would the inconvenience end?
Was it to be supposed that because Job was given over
by the Almighty tobe tormented by Satan, that that Court
should give over their officers to be tormented by indi-
vidual Commissioners?—(Laughter, and " Hear, hear.")
The officers felt an irksomeness in the discharge of their
duties ; they looked on every meeting of the Court with
dread, because they then expected to be tortured and
put upon the rack ; and, constituted as the Commission
then was, there was no hope of public business progress-
ing, if some means were not adopted to prevent a con-
stant introduction of the subject by the Hon. Coeamis-
sioner.
Mr. BARRY BALDWIN, M.P., said, perhaps the chair-
man would allow him to interrupt him for a moment.
He would suggest that it would be fairer to the indivi-
dual charged if a plain statement of facts were made,
without any observations similar to those the chairman
had thought proper to make.—(Loud cries of" hear, hear.")
He was sure the chairman would agree with him that a
plain statement of facts would meet with due considera-
tion from every gentleman present. He did not wish to
defend Mr. Leslie any more than he did the officers of
the court, to whom he wished the best protection of the
Commissioners should be afforded ; but he did think in
making a charge against an honourable member of the
Court, the passions and feelings ought not to be aroused.
—(Hear, hear). It was better that a plain statement
should be put forth, and the matter be left to the consi-
deration of the Court.—(Hear).
The CHAIRMAN wished only to bring the facts of the
case in the fullest manner before them. This he would
say, that if the business of the officers were impeded, as
it had lately been, the Court must go on differently from
what it had done.—(Hear, hear, and cheers from both
sides.) He meant as regarded the conduct of one Hon.
Commissioner. The Court had hitherto maintained a
high character—(Hear, hear)—but it would remain to
be seen whether, with a continuance of these proceed-
ings, it would still maintain that high character. In-
stead of having argument after argument upon a matter
settled by a previous Court, yet brought forward by the
Hon. Commissioner--
Mr. J. GUNTER—We are entering now on another
matter.—(Hear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN then concluded by leaving the matter
in the hands of the Court.
Mr. LAURIE asked if any communication had passed
upon the subject between the Chairman and Mr. Hertz-
lett previous to the. sitting of that Court ?
After some desultory conversation, the Chairman not
having answered the question,
Mr. LESLIE said that the question put by his friend,
Mr. Laurie, was a most proper one ; and, before pro-
ceeding further, he should wish it answered. The letter
of Mr. Hawkins he had never heard of till that moment;
but it seemed to contain only two grounds of complaint
—the first, that he had withdrawn the book ; and the
second, that the matter might have been brougt before
the last Court by him, but that he had neglected to do
so. It might be remembered that he wished to go on, but
the Court was adjourned by some Hon. Commissioner,
He should, however, before going further, wish the
Chairman to answer the question put to him.
The CHAIRMAN admitted that some letters had passed
between himself and Mr. Hertzlett, which he had no
objection should be read to the Court.
The correspondence, consisting of several letters, was
then read.
The CHAIRMAN then referred to the regulation of the
Court, and argued that the book in question ought never
to have been out of the surveying department. He
granted, indeed, that it might, when the surveyors had
left the premises, be kept by the chief office clerk, Mr.
Hertzlett, who might be held the custodies pro tent.,
but during the hours of business the case was very
different.
Mr. LESLIE requested that Messrs. Dowley and Haw-
kins, the surveyors, should be called into Court.
They were sent for.
Mr. LESLIE then continued. He had found that they
were to pay a sum of 2,0001., or that they were to pay
large sums of money generally, to the contractors' ac-
count for work done. He believed that account very
imperfectly understood. He himself thought that the
terms of the contract were that the contractors should
do a certain quantity of work at 2s. per cubic yard.
He had, however, found that the charges for the Eastern
and Western District had been little short of 10,000 L,
at an average depth of so-and-so, and at per foot lineal.
Then it occurred to him to ascertain bow the depths
were taken, because they might be so taken, that on the
one hand they would be very unjust to the contractor,
and on the other to the public. He had examined these
depths, and had gone through the measurement of every
work for the last three years ; and as far as plans and
sections—
Another COMMISSIONER—AII this is quite another
thing. Are you guilty, or not guilty P
Mr. LAURIE—The gentleman is charged, and surely
he will be heard in his defence. Such a monstrous in-
terruption I never heard before.
The CHAIRMAN thought it too serious a matter to be
trifled with ; and in fairness, Mr. Leslie was entitled to
a reply.
Mr. LESLIE had looked at the book of measurements,
and looked over the day-books, and had found figures
entered of certain depths. He had then said that there
must be some other book, and Mr. Jenkins brought for-
ward a book, called the book of levels, and
he had found the entries all in pencil. Now Mr.
Hertzlett would perhaps have the kindness to put
that book before the Commissioners, and he begged that
it might be sent down the table.—(The book was handed
round.) On searching over the records he had found that
a Committee sitting in 1836 for the purpose of aseertain-
ing the working of the Court, then had it in the chief
officer's evidence that Mr. Jenkins had been in the habit
of receiving the contractors' ledgers to copy his vouchers
from. Yet those clerks of the works were men in whose
integrity for a faithful discharge of their duties the
public 4nd the Court were bound to coincide. Mr. Jen-
kins, the clerk of the works at that time, was in a state of
probation, and it was moved " that Robert Jenkins be