The Sun.
London, England, 1850-05-10 00:00:00

THE SUN,

The remaining clauses having been egreed to,
Mr. ANSTEY congratulated the Committee on
having gone. through so speedily a Bill containing 370
clauses; and contrasted the proceedings with the ob-
jection made yesterday to the Irish Fisheries Bisl, in-
troduced by himself, and which contained only 150
clauses.
Mr. HUME remarked, that if every Bill was as well
considered before being brought in as this was, there
would be but little objection to it.—(Hear.)
Mr. CHARTERIS asked the Lord Advocate when he
intended issuing his invitations for a Blackwell dinner
to celebrate the business-like harmony of the even-
ing?—(A. laugh.)
In answer to Mr. FIUME,
Mr. F. MAULE said an early day would be fixed
for the report. After that stage the Bill would be re-
printed and circulated in Scotland before the third
reading.
Mr. HUME suggested that the report should be re-
ceived immediately, as the Scotch Members were de-
sirous of sending the Bill to their constituents without
delay.
The House then resumed; and went into Committee
od the
COURT OF SESSION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The Various clauses were agreed to after some verbal
amendments, New clauses were added, and the Bill
was ordered :0 be reported, with amendments.
The House having resumed,
The CHAIRMe; N reported progress, and the Bill, as
amended, was ordered to be printed.
The report was ordered to be received (as we under-
stood) on the sth of June.
PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The Committee on this Bill was postponed.
RAILWAYS ABANDONMENT BILL.
On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill,
Mr. SCULLY said he wished to make a few observa-
tions on a measure which he conceived so important to
a large number of individuals before the Speaker left
the chair. That Bill was intended to benefit the share-
holders of any railway who might he anxious to wind
up the affairs of their respective companies; and it was
founded upon the recommendations contained in the
report of the Commissioners, as well as the Audit Bill
of last year. Now if he drew the attention of the House
to that report for a short time, he thought he should
be able to advance good reasons for agreeing to the
clauses of which be had given notice.
Mr. LABOUCHERE suggested that it might be more
regular for the Hon. Member to address himself to the
subject when they had gone into Committee, and when
the other clauses were inserted.
Mr. SCULLY thought the question involved was of so
much importance, and as he feared he might not receive
so much attention after they had gone into Committee,
he would trespass only for a few minutes upon the
petience of the House while he stated his general opinion
of the Bill in question, reserving his objections to the
details for the Committee. In the Commissioner's re-
port it had been stated that Bills for the formation of
12,000 miles of railway had been passed, of which
7,000 were still unfinished, and that more than 4,000
of the same were likely never to be completed.
No less than 50,000,0001. of money were involved
in the operation of that Bill. There were many cases in
which proprietors had paid up their calls, but who dif-
fered from the directors as to the propriety of going on
with the undertaking, and it was but fair to give them
the power of voting for the abandonment of the line, if
not for its continuance. In the latter case the Railway
Commissioners might have a veto.' The Bill had defects
in detail, to which he would refer in Committee. It was
of great importance, however, to give increased facilities
to shareholders to wind up the accounts of a company;
and though the preamble of the present Bill proposed to
do that, ho contended that it would not bear out its
avowed object. There was a railway company with
which he was acquainted on which the directors, by way
of evading the effect of that Bill, had made a further call
upon the shareholders, although they had already paid
up 10/. on their shares, and notwithstanding that it was
tour years in existence not a mile had yet been made.
What he chiefly wished to effect by the clauses.and
amendments of which he had given notice was, to give
the shareholders full powers to wind up the affairs of a
company when they thought it better not to go on with
the undertaking.
The House then went into Committee.
Clauses up to 5 were agreed to after some discussion,
in which only Mr. SCULLY and the SOLICITOR-GENERAL
took part.
Mr. SCULLY proposed an addition, of which he had
given notice, enabling the shareholders to call a meeting
iu case the directors refused to do so, on a requisition
being presented to them.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL suggested that a pro-
viso to that effect could be more conveniently added after
clause 3.
Mr. SCULLY agreed to the suggestion made, and the
clause was agreed to.
Clauses 6,7, 8, and 9 were also severally agreed to.
Clause 10 having been put,
Major BERESFORD said that he thought the clause
a ,very objectionable one, for it would give the Commis-
sioners a power of reversing, on the representation of a
few individuals, the decision of a meeting of shareholders.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the clause had
not been originally in the Bill; but it appeared to him
that they might safely vest the proposed discretion in
the Commissioners.
Major BERESFORD said he could see no necessity
f granting to the Commissioners such very extraordi-
nary powers.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said it should be remembered
that the Bill proceeded on the principle of leaving a
large discretion to the Commissioners. He could not
think that there was any danger to be apprehended
from the clause.
Mr. DISRAELI said, it appeared to him that the
clause was one of a most arbitrary character. If they
were willing to grant such an extraordinary power to
the Commissioners they might as well pass an Act at
once leaving the whole question absolutely at the dis-
posal of those gentlemen. In case the House should go
to a division on the clause, he should certainly vote
against it.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the clause bad been framed
for the purpose of dealing with the case of a packed
meeting ; but,he had no objection so to amend it that
the Commissioners should merely have the power of or-
dering the convening of another meeting.
Major BERESFORD said, he should be perfectly
satisfied with that amendment.
The clause was then agreed to (as we understood),
with the understanding that it should be amended on
the bringing up the report.
Clauses up to 19 inclusive were also ordered to stand
part of the Bill.
Clause 20 was agreed to, after having been amended.
Clauses 21 and 22 were agreed to.
Clause 23 was amended, and then adopted.
Clauses up to 27 inclusive were agreed to.
Clause 28 having been put,
Mr. COWAN said he wished to know a hether the
Bill was to extend to Scotland ?
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he was afraid
the machinery of the Scottish Courts would not tally
with the provisions of the Bill. But he should consult
his Hon. and Learned Friend the Lord-Advocate upon
the subject.
Mr. SCULLY objected to the provision for extending
the operation of the Bill to suits which had been com-
menced since the 11th of February. That would give
the measure retrospective effect.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that on the 11 th of
February it was well known that such a Bill would be
introduced in the course of the session.
Major BERESFORD moved that " the Ist day of
May" be substituted for " the II th day of February,"
as the date of the commencement of the Act.
After a short conversation the amendment was nega-
tived without a division.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to.
Mr. SCULLY moved to add a clause, the object of
which was to empower shareholders in any company
disputing the validity of any calls, or who should be in
arrear of calls or capital, to vote for the abandonment,
or partial abandonment, of the scheme, or for the wind-
ing up of the company ; but at the same time to be pre-
cluded from voting in favour of its continuation, or fur
the prosecution of any of its works. Also a clause
giving power to the Commissioners of Railways in their
discretion to require or attach, as one of the conditions
to their assent to any such abandonment or wind-
ing-up, the payments of any calls made within three
months before any requisitions for a meeting, or
within such time as to such Commissioners should seem

meet. He thought it important that the directors of
railway schemes should be compellable
Inge to discus* matters where a
majoritytoofhtohlde xneetshare-
holders called for them, and it was but fair that those
parties, who all through had found fault with theirt hptroe-
ceedings, should have a voice at such meetings. At
same time he provided that they should have no power_
of voting for the continuation of any expenditure. By
his second clause he proposed to give the Railway Com-
missioners a veto and the power of compelling
these
shareholders to pay up a certain portion of their arrears.
It appeared to him that the Bill without some such provi-
sions would be perfectly useless for the objects which its
promoters professed to have in view, and ho therefore
begged to propose the two clauses for the adoption of the
Committee.
o(t)rffoAadgl
Ili giving
company
nLi 0 g
hA
thoseß o
f 0 Uri power
clausesh,li eo rEftßo
to vote
mhvi
eocc
dtho
eunfl o
od
rp involvedno t
tcho
en sheonvt e
lt op
rtilome i
pi nl
e-
athrteofabtahhedcoohnmseteittueonfcya
railway project. Ile hoped, therefore, that the Hon.
Member would not persist in his motion.
After a short conversation the clauses were withdrawn.
The Bill passed through Committee, and the repot t
was ordered to be brought up on Monday.
ELECTIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
Oa clause 1 being proposed,
Mr. M. O'CONNELL rose to bring forward the amend-
m „at of which he had given notice—at the end of the
0 to insert the words, "And that at all
.use, page -
such elections nae '
in future the votes be taken by way of
ballot." He said ho thought that every person who had.
must come to the conclusion
his attention to the mode in which elections in
that intimidation dtoucategdreat extent practised in that
were going to extend the fran-
directed
When they
country.
they ought also to give to the poor
Irelandt had been
was
voter; the protectio
proceed purl passe with the other
n of the ballot in this Bill, which it
e bad not many cases of
measure. Although .
Ireland, it was admitted on
in.
intendedweLaisseot. Irelsavnad;to tthey
bribery at elections
all hands that proaceetidsedegmeinos.tt
extensively. The thief argument
was, that it was
the principle of theballet
of the character
intim,
iiedfation
"11"11 that argument might
of a free people. However we
rthv
wn
unmanly, cowardly, and
apply to this country, in which the people had for so
remarkable for
their sturdiness of character,
it was utterly many years free institutions, and were _y inapplicable
to Ireland, in which the people had no
such vested rights.
For centuries the Irish population was deprived
_of any.
description of franchise. The franchise was confined to

one particular sec'. Concomitant with the admission of
Roman Catholics to Parliament was the further limita-
tion cf the franchise in Ireland. How different was the
Reform Bill given to Ireland to that which they gave to
England. The present Judge Crampton, when Solicitor-
General, designated the Irish Reform Bill as essentially
conservative, for in every point it possibly could it re-
stricted the rights of the voter, and placed him com-
rletely Hider the power of his political opponents.
While the legislation in respect to England was calcu-
lated to encourage all the virtues of freemen, their legis-
lation in respect to Ireland tended to develop all the
vices of the slave. The question with the Irishman was
one between his purse and his conscience. If he voted
with his landlord, ho was disgraced with his neigh-
bours—
Mr. BERNAL here interposed. He said he was very
unwilling to interrupt the Hon. Member, bat he was
clearly of opinion that the Hon. Gentleman was about to
make a motion that could not be said to come within the
scope or title of the Bill. The Bill was one to facilitate
the progress of elections in Ireland, by creating addi-
tional polling-places in that country. The question, then,
which the Hon. Gentleman was proceeding to discuss
was that of taking the votes by ballot, which certainly
was not within the scope of Parliament then to enter-
tain. _ .

Mr. M. O'CONNELL would, of course, submit to the
opinion of the Chair. He was, however, but taking that
course which he was informed was the better and more
convenient ono to take—the sense of the House upon
this question. He wished that he had been informed of
his mistake sooner.
Mr. BERNAL said that the Hon. Gentleman must be
aware that he had had no communication with him (the
Caairmun) on the subject.
Mr, M. O'CONNELL.—I did not refer to you, Sir,
at all,

Mr. AGLIONBY had no doubt whatever of the cor-
Tectness of the view taken by Mr. Bernal. lie would
vote with the llon. Gentleman upon this question when-
ever it was brought forward. He would suggest to the
Hor. Gentleman the propriety of moving his question in
the shape of a separate clause on the third reading of
the Bill, and then it would be competent for him also to
move to change the title of the Bill, so as to make it a
Bill to shorten the duration of elections and to take the
votes by ballot.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. O'CONNOR concurred in the views expressed
by the Hon. Member for Ceckermouth.
Mr. HUME hoped that the Hon. Member would take
the course suggested by his Hon. Friend, and give
ample notice of his intention to bring forward the
question, when the House would be fully prepared to
discuss it. He thought that the time was come to pro-
tect the people of Ireland—(Hear)—and he hoped that
the House would take into consideration the peculiar
circumstances of that country.
Mr. H. BERKELEY thanked the Hon. Member for
Traffic, for bringing forward this motion. He thought it
would be a disgrace if some of the Irish Members were
not found, upon a question of this description, to main-
tain the electoral rights of the people. He trusted that
the Hon. Member would persist in his intention to bring
forward this question at the first opportunity.
Tile O'GORMAN MAHON hoped that the Hom Me-
mber would take the course suggested, and give the Irish
Members an opportunity of rallying upon this subject.
He had no doubt but that the Irish Members would be
found prepared to do their duty to their country upon
this point at all events.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL admitted that he did not con-
sult with Mr. Bernal on the subject. He could not help
expressing his regret that the view taken by the Hon.
Chairman had not been expressed before he (Mr. M.
O'Connell) had proceeded so far with his motion. The
Government, hoe ever, must have been fully aware of
the motion be was about to bring forward, as he hai
placed it on the books of the House, and had been for
several evenings in the House watching the progress of
this Bill. He thought there was not much courtesy ex-
tended towards him in meeting him by a special demurrer
of this kind.
Mr. BERNAL said if the Hon. Member applied his
observations to him, he could only say that he was not
for a long time aware of the scope of his speech when
bringing forward his amendment. He had so many
things before him he felt he might readily be excused
for not interrupting the Hun. Member sooner.—(Hear.)
The question then being put that clause 1 stand part
of the Bill,
Mr. GROGAN complained of the want of certainty
as to the hour the poll was to commence on the second
day of the election.
Mr. KEOGH said that the omission in the Bill was a
strange one, for though it mentioned the hour at which
the polling was to commence and to continue on the
first day of the election, it did not state the hour at
which it was to commence on the second day. The
English Reform Bill was particular on this subject.
After a brief discussion,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL consented to insert
words to meet the objections urged against the dame.
The clause was then agreed to, as was also clause 2.
Clauses 3 to 18 were agreed to.
In elause 19 it was regulated that the expense of fit-
ting up beoths in a borough should be 31. if in a building,
and not to eil'eeed 51. if the booth were not in a publio
building.
Clauses 20 and 21 wee agreed to.
On clause 22, relating to :he number of polling-places
in counties,
Major BLACKALL moved the omission of the words,
" but not so as to divide any barony or half barony," his
object being to prevent voters having an unnecessarily
long distance to go to the poll.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the amendment, if agreed
tn, would altogether alter the system of counts, division
on which the Bill was founded, and it would be then ne
cessary to re-commit the Bill.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... . 44
Against it ~. 157
Majority ... ...-113
Lord NAAS moved that clause 22 be omitted, with a
view of substituting for it the corresponding clause in
the English Act, relating to the alteration or addi-
tion of polling-places.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD agreed with the motion of the
Noble Lord, and should most certainly vote for it.
Sir G. GREY suggested that it would be better to
omit the clause for the present, to introduce another
hereafter.
The clause was then struck out of the Bill.
Clauses 23 to 26 were then agreed to.
The schedules were next taken, and agreed to, with
some amendments.
The remaining clauses of the Bill were agreed to,
and the House resumed. To be reported to-morrow
(Friday).
BENEFICES IN PLURALITY BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
FACTORIES BILL.
_ _

On the motion for postponing the order of the day for
the committal of the Factories Bill.
Lord J. MANNERS rose and said—As it had been
propose] that this order of the day shall be adjourned I
think I should state what is the course which I shall feel
it to be my duty to pursue. Ido not now propose to
make any comments on the present position of the Bill ;
but I agree with my Noble Friend (Lord Ashley), who
has hitherto been in charge of the Factories Bill, and who
has announced his opinion publicly, although up to this
moment not in this House—(Hear)—that the frame-
work of the Bill proposed by her Majesty's Ministers is
more likely to produce a beneficial result than the frame-
work of the Bill which we have introduced into this
house.—(Hear, bear.) So far I agree with my Noble
Friend, and am, therefore, prepared to accept the
' machinery of the Government measure. But be-
yond that my concurrence with my Noble Friend cannot
extend; and upon the bringing up of the report I shall
move that " half-past five" be substituted for " six" in
the evening, which will make the •Bill of the Government
an effective ten hours Bill.—(Cbeers.) I will say no
more now upon this subject than that I conceive that
both the honour of this House and the rights of the
working people are concerned in passing an effective ten
hours Bill.—(Cbeers.)
Mr. AGLIONBY suggested that the Pill might be
passed through Committee that night; then the Noble
Lord's amendment and the discussion thereon could be
taken upon the report.
Sir G. GREY said that the Bill was not under his
charge, but under that of the Noble Lord the Member
for Bath (Lord Ashley), who had left the House; and
before doing so bad given directions that the order of
the day should be postponed until Monday. In that
Noble Lord's absence, therefore, he (Sir G. Grey) could
not undertake to assent to the reading of the order of
the day.
Postpened till Monday.
WEIGHTS- AND MEASURES BILL.
Oa the motion of Sir J. DUCKWORTH, the Weights
sad Measures Bill was read a second time.
lONIAN ISLANDS.
Mr. ANSTEY moved for copies of the address re-
cently presented to the Lord High Commissioner of the
lonian Islands by the Legislative Assembly of that con.
federation, and of his Excellency's reply thereto. And
alio of any correspondence with her Majesty's Govern-
ment on those subjects.—Agreed to.
SUNDAY FAIRS.
Sir G. GREY obtained leave to bring in a Bill to re-
peals
that rendered
occurred
in
the
an exception in an Act of the 27th of Edward VI.
as to Sunday faifrs
the
in consequence o
north of England during the hiring in harvest times on
Tdhiesoßrdiellrs wa

Sundays.
MEDICAL APPOINTMENTS IN THE EAST
d for a return of the names of
I[r. G R
oG
A
all persons appointed, or recommended for appointment,
by the President of the board of
Control to any medical
rnnve INDIES.
present time, ape-
-Ist day of January, 1832, down to
cifying the places to which such
appointments were
or surgical situation or office in the East Indies, since the
the
made, the dates thereof, and the salaries and emoluments
attached thereto respectively,
invi-
dious to select one department for such a return. Sir J. HOBHOUSE thought it was particularrnly
a former occasion this session, a motion for returns, in-
cluding medical appointments, was negatived. The dis-
tribution of patronage he felt to be one of the moat dis-
agreeable things connected with his office. When per-
sons were recommended to him he made the appoint-
ment solely with reference to the qualifications of the
candidate;, without inquiring whether they came from
Scot!and, England, or Ireland. If the Hon. Member
had any charge to bring against any appointment which
he had recommend.cd, he ought to bring it before the
House. He must oppose the motion as a most invidious
One.

Lord NAAS said the medical profession in Ireland
felt themselves decidedly aggrieved in tke amount of
patronage bestowed on the members of other medical
schools in the kingdom. If their grievance was un-
fiunded, the return would be the best means of showing
that it was SO.

Sir J. IMBHOUSE said the Board of Control had
very re7i. appointments. It was tho East India Company
who bad most of the appointments, and it was to them