The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-16 00:00:00

to produce insanity ; he therefore thought it would be
well to give it up altogether.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was, bound to state to
the Hon. Gentleman and to the Committee that if

this vote was to be viewed as one of expenditure
alone he was not prepared to defend it on that ground.
considerable portion of the vote was not for the

maintenance of time prisoners but for the maintenance

of the edifice. He 'thought the Hon. Gentleman had
exaggerated the expenses per head. He believed the
expenses per head for each prisoner in the Parkhurst
prison was 24/. and in the Pentonville prison 301.
The report Of the Pentonville Commissioners had
been laid on the table of the Mouse only that day.
He was sorry it was not in the hands of Hon. Gentle-

men so that they could become acquainted with its
contents before the present vote came on. Consider-
ing the nature of the statements and the autho-
rity on which they were made, he was sure
a more satisfactory report could not be
presented to the consideration of the House.
He would read the conclusion of the Commissioners'

report to the House, whereby they would he enabled
to see the result of the experiment. He was sure the
names of the Commissioners were a guarantee that
every confidence might be placed in the report.
They were—Lord Wharncliffe and the Duke of
Richmond, the Earl of Devon, Lord Chichester, Lord
John Russell, the Right Honourable Charles Shaw
Lefevre, Speaker of the House, Sir Benjamin Brodie,
Dr. Ferguson, Major Jebb, and Mr. Richard
Russell. They stated that under all the circum-
stances they thought themselves fully justifiedis coming
to the conclusion that the system of separate confine-
ment, as adopted in Pentonville prison, had been ex-
posed to a severe test, and that nothing had occurred
to induce them to believe that the system might not
safely be carried into effect. The rate of mortality
was low, and there was a moral and religious im-
provement in the prisoners, amongst whom a cheerful
spirit prevailed; whilst those benefits had been con-
ferred on them, discipline had been strictly main-
tained, and the penal character of the prison had not
been sacrificed to the object of reformation; and, on
the whole, they had no hesitation in expressing their
satisfaction at the results, and they were of opinion
that the adoption of the system of separate confine-
ment, as adopted in Pentonville prison, was well cal-
culated to deter, correct, and reform offenders. That
was the conclusion to which the Commissioners had
come. Then, with respect to the course of instruc-
tion adopted, the following results appeared with re-
spect to 525 prisoners confined from 31st December,
1842, to 31st December, 1843 ; he would give the de-
tails, under the heads of reading, writing, and scrip-
tural knowledge. On the admission of those 525,
there were 169 of them who could read well, and
70 who could not read at all. At the end of the
year 343 could read well, and there was not a single
prisoner that could not read at all. On their
admission, there were 263 who could write
well, and 327 who could not write at all.
At the end of the year there were 304 who could
write well, and only 262 who could not write at all.
With respect to the higher rules of arithmetic, there
were 27 versed in them, and 363 who knew nothing
at all about them. At the end of the year there were
522 well instructed in those higher rules, and only
six not versed in them at all. Then, with regard to
scriptural knowledge;; there were at their admission
66 who had a considerable knowledge of Scripture,
and 287 who had none at all. At the end of the year
341 had become intimately acquainted with the
Scripture, and not one was totally ignorant of it.
Thus, on those cardinal points, at all events, the re-
port was satisfactory. With regard to the trades in
which they were instructed, he reminded the House
of the decision that had been come to with respect to
those prisons, that no one confined in them should be
ever again thrown upon society, but should be trans-
ported to a penal colony. That decision might, per-
haps, be deemed a harsh one, but it was most salutary
for society here, and it involved the paramount duty,
even at some cost of money, of providing fur those
criminals to be thus transported, the means of earn-
ing an honest livelihood in the colonies to which they
were to be sent. They were accordingly instructed
in the various handicrafts most in demand in the
penal colonies, viz. those of carpenters, coopers,
wheelwrights, weavers, basket-makers, shoemakers,
tailors—in short, in all those arts of skill and labour,
which are most requisite for the .distant colonies.
When such advantages were derivable from the expe-
riment, he could not think that 40,0001. a-year was
an excessive sum for the reformation of 1,050 crimi-
nals annually ; at all events, he entreated the House
not to mar a great experiment which was only in its
infancy, but which promised so well.
After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS,
Mr. ESTCOURT inquired if the Right Hon.
Gentleman was aware that persons who had not been
convicted, but who were only confined for trial, were
subjected to separate confinement.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, that no prisoner was
sent to those prisons, to which the present vote ap-
plied, hut those who were sentenced to transportation
for at least seven years. And as to other prisons, he
was not aware that separate confinement, if adopted
without any accompanying circumstances of degrada-
tion, was contrary- to law in the case of untried
prisoners.

Mr. AGLIONBY said, it appeared to him that the
lower the price of labour the greater would be the
competition.

Sir J. GRAHAM read an extract from the Report
of the Poor-law Commissioners, ;for the purpose of
shewing that the prisoners sent to these prisons were
mostly unacquainted with any trade.
The vote was then agreed to.
20,364/. was voted to defray the expenses of the
Pentonville prison.
47,6891. was voted to defray the expenses of the
Millbank prison.
3,9721. was voted to defray the expenses of confin-
ing criminal lunatics in Bethlehem hospital.
6,5001. was voted to pay the salaries and expenses
of the inspectors of prisons, and the salary of the Se-
cretary of the Prison Board in Scotland.

63,9351. was voted to defray the law expenses in
Scotland.

62,1091. was voted to defray the expenses of crimi-
nal prosecutions and other law charges in Ireland.
30,0001. was voted to defray the expenses of the
metropolitan police in Dublin.

6,3371. was voted to defray the expenses of building
prisons and convict depots.
A vote of 27,0901. was agreed to for defraying the
expenses'of maintaining convict and hulk establish-
ments at home and abroad, and

The sum of 300,0001. was voted for the support of
the Convict establishments in New South Wales, and
Van Diemen's Land.

The House then resumed, and the Chairman ob-
:ained leave to sit at again Friday.

COUNTY COURTS BILL.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he would, with the
permission of the House, move that the County Courts
Bill be then read a second tinge. In the early part of
the evening, he had stated that he did not anticipate
that there would be any objection to the principle of
the Bill, and, to suit the convenience of both gentle-
men, particularly the :Hon. Member for Lambeth,
who wished to discuss certain portions of the Bill, he
would fix Friday for the committal of the Bill.

After a few Words from Mr. CHRISTIE,
Mr. HAWES said he would offer no opposition to
the second reading of the Bill, but take the discussion
upon it onthefirst clause in committee.

Sir J. GRAHAM knew that there was consi-
derable anxiety with respect to this Bill, and he
thought it would be better if it was read a second
time now.

After a few words from Mr. BROTHERTON,
The Bill was read a secorkd time, ordered to be
committed on Friday next—on that day to take pre-
cedence.