The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-06 00:00:00

the new Parliament can assemble. It is no immaterial 1 about a resolution of the member for the West Riding.
concern. We debated for four days upon the questions I know a resolution which was once the resolution of
that have arisen, and we came to the opinion that that my hon, friend, but has now become the solemn judg-
which the Government deemed worthy of approval we
meat of this house, (Loud cheers.) In the course of a
thou
long debate different views and different principles and
• on the contrarythought deserving of our censure, different conclusions were strongly adopted and urged
(Hear, hear.) Are we to agree that we will be en- upon the two sides of the question ; but no man went
tirely mute,
that votes of supply, one after the other, 0 further, and no man went so far in vindicating the
- are to be carried, and that we are not to ask what is to
wretchedsalts in the journalslc
s pel yof which
of to we-da have
no y— read
man some of the
went so far in
re-
happen during this interval ? (Hear.) My noble friend u
said the other night that the object of the Government
vindicating that miserable policy as the noble viscount.
(Hear.) I wont go into the details of the debate, but
would be to protect the lives and property of British when my right hon. friend the Secretary of State accuses
subjects. I have no doubt that that will be their ob. my hon. friend near ma of unfairness in stating that we
jest, and that my noble friend will take very efficient
were making war in order to secure the entry for Sir
Bowring into Canton, I will ask, if we are not
measures for so doing. I think that these lives and that John
property have been risked not by the vote of this house making war for that object, for what are we makingwar ? (Cheers.) It is upon record that the affair of the
(cheers)—because it is not the echo of our vote which is Arrow is settled—for the right hon. gentleman cannot
just reaching ns from China. The intelligence which is destroy the effect of the passage in which Consul
object l
reaching us is the intelligence of the consequences that Parkes
for makes
whi
which we
utnnackeimn e nwt
ac anitlit is what then
the entry
is the
have been produced by the policy which the authorities
of air J. Bowring into Canton g?
We are told that the
have pursued. (Cheers.) Well, then, may we not ask- House of Commons is to be dissolved, and lam not in
while you take care to protect life and property in danger the least dissatisfied with that announcement. Sir, it
by the policy which has been there pursued, will you will remain on record that the house was.dismissed
h
be-
not take some means for the adjustment of those la- cause it struck
ut aa deadlylL fulsoewi greateatteahe
dissolelv":l4l ay; (Loud
several
mentable differences ? My right hon friend who has just
eweeeekr:B4.) But,
to 'elapse before the dissolution takes place,
sat down, said my right friend the member for Wiltshire
as several weeks more must pass without a Parliament
misrepresented the Government when he said we were existing in this country, and as some time must elapse
pursuing by hostilities the object of obtaining the in- even after the new Parliament assemblies before it can
a definite ne
dap,htts althoughmatter— w
th et question
ea
uestihoi.
judgmentclear
be a representation, and I think it is a very fair repro- for
t to ask isae
as th
oentation of the state of the case ; but I land all the rest net Ministers have proved perfectly unable to compre-
hend it—(a laugh)—upon what policy and what prin.
of the house are left completely in the dark, and if we ciples are your affairs in Cnina to be carried on during
state what we think is the object ot the war, we are sure the interval of three mouths which are before us ? (Loud
to be told we are misrepresenting it. The consul who cheers.) That, I think, is a question to which this
h
demanded reparation in the case of the Arrow declare) house has the right to require an answer. For what is
that all the demands on that subject were satisfied. Then our position ? Hostilities have been commenced in Can-
ten by the local representatives of the British Govern-
we are pursuing some other object, and when my right went. Those hostilities have been adopted, appro-
hon. friend is asked what that object is, he wraps him- priated, made their own, vindicated in this house and in
self up in general and obscure terms, and says we shall the other house of Parliament by the advisers of the
settle on permanent
It was the duty of those atoodviseare now going forward.rs to have at once come terms our intercourse with China.
Crown. Those hostilitiee
Every one will agree that it is an object to be desired, down of their own accord, and to have asked the judg-
but the question is, is this arranged on any principle went and approval of Parliament ; for I apprehend, sir,
that the house has approved of ? or is it on any principle that the expenses of the war must fall upon the people
they have disapproved of 1 and, secondly, who are to be of England ; and who is it that is authorised to fix upon
the judges of what our future relations with China the people of England the expense of carrying on a war?
should be ? Are they to be persons in whom this house Is it the noble viscount ? (Cheers.) I entreat this house
not to be beguiled into forgetfulnees of its most essential
has no confidence ? (Hear, hear.) If that is the case, I function, for it is our right and our right alone, to vote
must say that when we are asked for large votes in sup- the supplies by which the hostilities in China are to be
ply, it will be but reasonable that we should ask the Go- carried on. The hostilities have been condemned both
as to their principle and their object; yet her Majesty's
vernutent to declare what are the terms that they pre-
pose to sok from China, and what are the ol je.cte they Government come down to the house; they call its so-
tenon decision a resolution of the member fir the West
intend to pursue, because I believe the House of Com Riding ; and they distinctly intimate that the war is
mons never was during the course of its existence placed to be carried on in China just as i: would have been if
in this situation, that we should be required to show the our vote had never been come to. (Cheers.) Most anxi-
greatest measure of confidence in a Government whose ous as I am, in common with the right hon. gentleman
the member for Buckinghamshire, to afford every just
course of policy we disapprove—(hear, hear)—that we
and reasonable facility for forwarding public business, I
shoull be required to give votes in supply, when at the frankly own lam not prepared to abdicate an essential
same time they do not declare what are the objects to duty of the House of Commons. The House of Commons
which those votes are to be applied. It does not appear has been wronged, and its rights and privileges have been
to me that it would be very difficult for them to declare depreciated by her Majesty's Government. They have
what their objects are. Ido not think there would be
oliles already begun in commenced a war in Persia, they have adopted hoe-•
any hesitation in agreeing to all those votes of which Parliament. Sir, it is not China,t without the authority of
es duty of Parliamnt to
my noble friend spoke, which would be necessary in order allow these things, and then to have a bill rendered e
them,
to enable the Crown to appeal to the country by a disso and be toll that that is the charge. If that is what the
house is willing to submit to it may as well clone its doors,
lotion. It may be, as many gentlemen seem to think,
the state of parties would be cleared up by a dissolution, (Cheers.)
timeil e ewr se. ) v 0
tlet is ourfio e dutyi:)e af
os r e well
hostilitiesas otr privilege,waged,
andt
and I can only say, having had my attention called to not afterwardssn—pitO be the judges of the purpose to which
this vote, I think the noble lord did not fairly represent it those supplies are to be appropriated. (Cheers.) It is vain
when he said the question that occurred after that vote for the noble lord—l defy him to escape from the principle
the other night was, whether the present Ministry should which the constitution of England has so well laid down,
remain in office and appeal to the country, or whether a the right, namely, of Parliament, not only to vote supplies,
Ministry should be formed from a combination of the di!- but to judge of the purpose for which those supplies are
fereat parties who had joined in that vote. I think that demanded. Sir, I hope that at least we shall obtain a
anypersen reading an account of what had occnrred in clear answer—or indeed some answer, for as yet we have
China might have come to the same result that the had absolutely none—from her Majesty's Governieetit
house came to the other night without any concert or upon this question. My noble friend said that he would
combination. (Cheers.) Ido not believe thet concert or move the adjournment of the house, in order that hon.
combination ex sted. There is a great party, as every gentlemen might have an opportunity of. commenting
one knows, sitting on the opposite side of the house. I upon the statement he was about to make. But instead
do not know that they have a combination with any of making a statement upon which hon. gentlemen could
other party, and Isuppcse they would be the persons to comment, he has withheld the whole pith and marrow of
whom her Majesty, if she was obliged to have recourse to hie'promised statement. Ho has told us nothing, except
other advisers, would have recourse to in vain to form a that we are goieg to be sent about our business ; and
new administration. I can only say, therefore, that any the only thing left to hon, members is to get up and
charge which may be made, and which no doubt wi Ihe ask questions, by which they lose their right of making
got up for the elections—(hear)—of combinations, fac- any comments upon the statement of the noble lord
tions, and unscrupulous combinations of parties in order which he may choose to make in reply. But, sir, while
t ) attain certain objects, I believe ell those charges are I shall listen with- attention to the statement which I
entirely false and celatnnious. (Cheers.) There is no one suppose my noble friend will presently make upon this
in a condition to prove them, or who can bring to light vital and essentialsubject, I hope it will be understood that
evidence in support of them. A great part of those who there is no pledge given—that there is no understanding
sit on this side of the house concurred in that vote ; and whatever—which in any degree fetters the free action
I believe, however the Government may admire the acts and judgment of this house, or which implies that we are
of Sir 3. Bowring in China, they concur in disapproving about to play a mere Ministerial part in regard to the
of them. They consider that a question—l care not who- taxation of the country, or are going to place, an office
they it be a question which concerns our relations with which is esseatially ours in the hands of the executive
China, but a question which concerns war and hostilities, advisers of the Crown. Sir, the noble viscount has re-
which concerns the destruction of many live; and which ferred again to-day to the subject of combinations. He
has reference to great calamitien—that was a question stated that he was beaten by a combination of parties, out
on which they were bound to giVe an opinion irrespec- of which a new Government might perhaps be formed.
tive of party. Fur my part I must, having heard that Now, I apprehend that many questions might be raised
vote of the house sometimes directly and sometimes upon the meaning of the term "combination ;" but this
covertly attacked, express my belief that there is no I will say, Ido not think there ever was an occasion upon
vote that will do more honour to this Parliament than which it was less to the interest of a Government which
that vote. If this Parliament is to have existence found itself in a minority to examine closely the con-
no longer it will redound al ways to their credit tents of the division late. (Loud cheers.) In cuniidering
that when they were called upon by the voice of their the contents of those lists I put entirely out of view my
country to engage in a contest with a great power, with right hon. friends who sit near me. I admit with regard
one of the greatest powers in the world, they never hesi- to them, and with regard to myself, that our isolated po-
tated. They gave any supplies that were asked ; they sitinn makes us naturally the objects of suspicion ; and
contributed any forces that were proposed ; they voted if we are accused of entering into combinations, though
any number of men .that were required ; they never we may feel the charge to be unjust we must bear it
shoved the least unwillingness, the least backwardness, patiently. But, sir, putting those in whom I am moat
in contending with that great power; but when it op-, interested, and putting my own character out of the
peered that we were engaged in a war with an uriwarlike, question, I must ask, when it ever happened before that
with an almost defenceless people, that thee, interposing a case arose so strong as to compel this house to check
an interruption to the proceedings of the executive go- the mad career of the Government in a war at the extre-
vernment which they ha I not interposed before, they, on tnity of the earth ? Over and over again we have seen
the part not less of humanity than of the honour of their this house challenged to condemn our foreign poliey ;
country, censured the proceedings of the Government. but never on any single occasion, within my recollection,
(Cheers.) I think that the vote was not only honourable has it been induced to interfere. (Cheers.) It has always
in itself, but I believe it will be an honourable prem. lent felt too strongly its weakness and its want of inforina-
in the future history of this country. Pewiaments have tion on such matters ; and the presumption, therefore, its,
been too prone to approve ot hostilities without consider- that the usage and fixed rule of the house has not been
ing, and weighing, and Examining the grounds on which altered without reason, but that a stern necessity has
tho e hostilities have been commenced. I think that this compelled it to interpose and rescue our dearest interests,
house has shown that while they are ready to make any and dearer than all interests, the fame and honour of the
sac. ifice for a just and necessary war they will not ap- empire from the hands of men who are unfit to guard
prove blindly of any hostilities for which no just cause them? But whatare the facol as regards thissiapposed cem-
can be made out. After so much has been said against bination ? Firstly, the majority comprised that great
. the vote of the other night, attributing it to any other party now in opposition, which at all times must either
motive but a desire to arrive at a fair and honest decision be the first or second power in England. In the next
upon the merits of the question, I cannot but protest place it comprised the name ef my noole friend the mem-
against those imputations, and I cannot but again express her for the city of London. (Cheers.) And who is my
my hope that before this debate is ended my noble friend noble friend the member for the city of London ? (Hear.)
who has the privilege of reply will give us some notion, Ido not speak of him as agreeing with him upon every
some idea, of what are the objects of carrying on this political question, but I speak of him as history will re-
war with China, and what are the results that he is de- gard him henceforth, and as the English people regard
eirous of arrivii g at. him now. (Cheers.) Is he not the man who has led,
Mr. ROEBUCK—I rise to protest against one state- the liberal party in this oountry during a period of more
meat of the noble lord at the head of the Government,
cenidance
tmhaotstliejereanitful years—the man utnhdeerrwenhtoeeset
who has des,cribed his defeat as the result of a combine- triumphs it has ever wonpar Iy (Chseers.) With him was
tion of parties; and by a combioatioa of parties it is ob- combined the ablest and most distinguished man am wig
vious he meaet a conspiracy of parties. (Cheers.) It is the popular leaders of England (Mr. Cobden). There
tin, that hon. gentlemen of different political opinions was also an hon. and 'corned gentleman (Mr. Roebuck),
w
found themselves in the Caine lobby; but why should that who was so far from being a political enemy of the noble
circumstance be considered proof of a cons iracy ? I Lord at the head of her Majesty's Government, that in
1850, when he thought that upon the whole the foreign
speak for enyedf are for a gettteineber of gephtlernen in policy of the noble lord was satisfactory, he himself came
this house, and I must seknew nothing combine, ion of parties, (Cyhee; ) W of any forward, and, refusing to accept the decision of the
We were called upon House of Lords, moved a resolution which led to what
to give a vote upon a nrAtter', r.eielmi7dotlvoed the honour the noble lord justly regards as one of the most signal of
of our country ;that honour I di- have been en-
dangered by the conduct of the his political triumphs. (Cheers.) I think, then, it is a
ag; inst him. 1 did that, sir, not
noblebecauei
agreedand I voted little too much for members. of the Government now to
hon. gentlemen opposite, but because I a
. with cbsl'enge inquiry into the constitution of the majority
•reed
resolution. (Cheers.) I thought that dishl'onouiwaintdh dthi e of Tuesday last. (Loud cheers.) Tie noble viscount,
former occasion, spoke net of. a combinaei in,
grace awaited my country, and I thought the resolution- butof a " secret treaty" ter thence quisitien of office.
was the only shield which could be placed between us
It din„
honourable friend the member for the West
and dishonour; and it was on that account I lent it my
think,
spoke of the nab viscount in terms which, I
humble support. (Cheers.) Sir, we were tel 1 that WOY
did him honour, with respect to the noble lord's
were tp-nieht to hear an explanation.- We have had no
all my
friend
jdeolitical oppenente. (Hear.) I adopt
explanatien ; but we have heard a trumpery statement
said ; and I gladly admit that the
etonoitted to the house, and ce'l- d an explanatien,
' :Anne resentment,
good Yhunio.ur olefath
nevenow!heevnishceonutnt
utters
suchha inthtahte
mouth
sir, An explanation of what ?Of their policy ?No
of any other man weld sound like te
reproaches, pwr o‘tahtelfe es.
„(
i)r..)
sir, they have no policy—(loud cheers)—and they can
therefore give us no explanation. The fact is, sir, a set of lam cure that the noble lord only
men who act in the name of England hare disgraced Eng- nations" and " secret treaties" as useda weapon e these
f debate.ei l -
land,
line!, and this house, coming to the rescue of England I, like the rest of the houee, keeid the right heo g '
and of Englarol'i honour, has declared against the noble tleman the member for Beekin dtaamtsahliire-makedna.nt-haenlet--
lord and his C evernment. (Cheers) If the noble 1 r I nouncement for which we were not
had continued to be what he declared himself in times is to tay, an announcement that he intended i t
11:::t, a supporter of liberal institution,' we would not upon the application of certain principles to the regnun'aa-
as deserted him. It is he rather who has deserted us. tion of the public taxation. Upon the basis of that
The noble lord went where we would not follow bins public declaratioe, heard by the house and the Govern-
and because we fait
aeot ta- ,o be had disgraced En land we voted merit at the same time that it was heard by us, we sup-
b. .ns on. (uheers )
ported the resolution of the right hon. gentleman, with
Mr' M.GREGOI,IIea-iAf question has been put to the which our principles were thoroughly in harmony.
nohle lord at the
the hon, gentleman tho her
Majesty's
Government
1131 the history of our " cornbinaton"
which has not been (Cheers.) That is
ansecvemember for the West Riding, with the right hon. gelitleman opposite. In the same
It is this : What is to be manner we heard the hon. gentleman the member for the
done with the representraeltdsi.vesirot the Geverrni•nt at Wtst Riling give notice of a motion for which we were
Hong Kong ? (Cheers.)
whom they delight .ad:ilin Bowring still to equally unprepared, -and in which we also thoroughly
be the man
sto
going
to put confidence
iii honour?:ma Ate they concurred. In consequence of thai; concurrence we gave
eared by the vote of this house tn hanek7ehioehas been d'. the best sepport uin public debete to my hon.
of an indiscretion, but of a crime? mpeer-,n go lty, riot friend's motion ; sand I suould like to know whether we
to i'epresent the most powerful itefiocetltlefz:o):stisenneer:i'fit!! shoul I not have liesn guilty of the greatest breach id
" " the world ? IS 1,11,1 ri e duty in both cases, if, with cur etrong cemvictione
Sovereign in
t i •oine tr
China to ho under his conta 1? I hope that stlgte fut i '
e t 1.- 0s t wiliest the interests of the country requ red, we had
fat sof Sir John Bo wring will be deviled upon before the P for a mnitient thought of pursuing another course I
.4.ei , addreseee Via house sits do (Coe,trs.) These are the "combinations" for which we
nal: lord when he 3
own tire responsible and these alone. Rear Our opinions
Mr. GLADSTONE—Wheu at the end of what / inn
t are before the C(
country, and u liatevertia.y) be fetid against
be permitted to cell the very bare and meagre staterneet kl% it will -at least be admitted that c e have never
theta.
of the noble lord at the heal of her Nr,:iitsty's Govern_ Brunk from stating those opinions. Our views upon
meet the right hon. gentleman the member for Bucking.
H'lo"c•nkoaerh taxation, and public expenditure have been
ieihsaetttiflorth that thorn can be no doubt upon
hatushire rose in his piece and stated that he would
afferd every facility for disposing of public business, I cturse . pursued bey views
hlerl‘arar
jeesnt not iaohvaerrrii,:y.twithfutillie
hare not the smallest doubt the right hon. gentletnal adroit,i brit I believe them to le strongly in harmony
assumed that which we havo since found frou the an- with
a.,. tie intereEte of the country ; and we mean to
i ide by them hat ever ht
severs of tho rig hon. gentlemen who have addressed of Public affairs. (;)vheer may happen inn the vicissitudes
the house that we should have hem' wrong if we had too to state this ; and I nowetse)avlt.ie due to the houeesfor us
'wilily aesurned—e
Aeeee)—l mean that which my noble Norfolk (Mr. nentinek)lto
seayitwtetthheerhoitn.emteimbi er for
friend the member for the City of London has argued t respoede ei;i4th,catillttohat Lis lively and vigorous inmareeinyateieorn.
in terms le orthy of himself, and in terrne which wilt has been
le' ' suggest ? (Laughter and cheers.) I
am bound to add , before sitting down that '
carry conviction both to this house and te the country. to finance and public expenditure I fwith regard
am left entirely is
(Loud cheers.) I can hardly express the atnazern.mt doubt, by what I euppose in courtesy must he called tb.
with which I heard the speeches of the right hon, en- i statement of the noble viscount. He said he intended too
tae nen the First Lord of the Admiral 'y and the Secre-certain taxn for the year, and that he intended to
tary of State for the Home Department, (Cheers ) Teo I take the estimates and the Mutiny Bill for a part of the
Secretary of State for the Home Department says he Year. I ?Should be glod to give tbe noble viscount the beet
did nit uederstaed the resontion of my hon, frietel the iefertnation in my poster as to the course I may think
usetateer for the West Riding, Sir, I kriew nothing it right to pursue ; but my noble friend has made it im