The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-15 00:00:00

statute, and to be carried out according to the manner
provided by Act of Parliament. He did not think,
therefore, that there was any weight in the argument,
that the motion trenched on the prerogative of the
Crown. Formerly, when he was a young man at the
bar, the sent-nai used to run, that the criminal should
bo transported to such place as her Majesty, with the
advice of her Privy Council. should appoint-1e wing the
place at the discretion of the Crown and the responsi-
bility of the Minister. Now the sentence was shorter,
and did not refer to the place. While he at present
could not support the motion he entreated the Govern-
ment to bring forward this important question of trans-
portation. As far as his experience went, he was satis-
fied it was the only effective punishment, and the only
one which Parliament, in its mercy, could safely substi-
tute for a higher one. Improvements might be made in
the mode of carrying it gut; but it was a punishment
which must Le carriel out if they wished to inspire
wrong;-doers with terror. He could support no motion
that would :e id to the abolition of transportation. If
Government would bring the subject forward they would
receive the thaeks f every ono who took an interest in
the correction of offenders.
Mr. HUMS said, that in supporting the motion he
must not bo supposed as agreeing with the Hon. Mem-
ber for Southwark, as he had no wish to see transporta-
tion abolished. Ile thought that what had occurred at
the Cape sea; a strong reason why a power like that in
question should not be reposed in any individual. Every-
body knew that it was not the Government, but the Co-
lonial Secretary, who exercised the power. If there
were any difficulty in finding proper places to which
criminals might be transported, it was the duty of the
Government to do everything in their power to prevent
men from becoming criminals. He found from the Syd-
ney Gazette, received by the last mail, that great dis-
turbances had taken place in Sydney, in consequence of
the determination of the Government to force convicts on
the colony. Those convicts had been landed almost
under the fire of cannon, and the Government House had
been placed in what might be called a state of siege. Ile
believed that the more they circumscribed the powers of
officers capable of acting as Earl Grey had acted, the
more likely were they to prevent scenes such as those to
which he had la ferred.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that before the House came to
a division on the question, he wished to put before them
the difficulties in which the Government were placed, and
which he thought would not be at all diminished by the
adoption of the motion which the Hon. Gentleman had
made. The Hon. Gentleman proposed to repeal a par-
ticular part of one Act of Parliament, whereby her Ma-
jesty in Council was empowered to send transported con-
victs, according to her Majesty's discretion, to certain
places within her dominions. But at the same time the

Hon. Gentleman did not propose to repeal other parts
of former Acts which gave the same powers. He did not
propose to repeal the power which had been given to her
Majesty, a few years ago, to send convicts to Gibraltar,
and to other parts of her Majesty's distant possessions.
Under those circumstances, he (Lord J. Russell) could
not see what object the Hon. Gentleman could hare in
view, except, as ho said, to show that the power had
been abused, and that it ought therefore to be abo-
lished. Now, if that were the case, he really sub-
mitted to the House that they were going to decide a
vary important question on very insufficient date. Suppose
the Hon. Gentleman had proved to demonstration that
the Noble Lord at present at the head of the Colonial-
office had been completely mistaken in his conduct with
respect to the Cape, it did not therefore follow that the
power which he had improperly exercised ought not to
exist.—(Hear, hear.) Suppose that that conduct was
altogether wrong, it did not therefore follow that other
Colonial Ministers might not make a better use of that
power which the Hon. Gentleman and others thought
might be very beneficially employed. It, therefore,
seemed a very illogical consequence to say, that because
the power bad been in one particular instance abused, it
should consequently be altogether destroyed. But as re-
garded the particular instance to which the Hon. Gen-
tleman bad alluded, he had himself stated in one part
of his speech the very great difficulties with which the
Secretary of State for the Colonies had to contend; and
the lion. Gentleman could not estimate these difficulties
too highly. While, however, he had stated them, and
had them fully before his eyes, he had made no allow-
ance far them. In the first place, the law of this country
authorises transportation. The judges, and not only the
judges, but the chairmen of quarter sessions, condemned
tc that punishment 3,000 persons every year; and when to
those were added the persons whose sentences were com-
muted, the total number annually sentenced to
transportation amounted to about 4,000. Now, if the
Colonial Secretary were to send all those persons to one
particular colony the result would be that the greatest
evils would arise from the concentration of so many cri-
minals—that the most horrible state of society would be
produced, and that the Colonial Secretary would receive
representations which no Minister could hear without a
desire to amend such an abuse; but if, on the other
hand, he were to say that, finding himself embarrassed
by such a number of convicts, he wished to know from
the inhabitants of other colonies whether they would ,
receive a portion of them, he was met by a complaint of
his tyrannical conduct. The Hon. Baronet the Member
for Southwark (Sir W. Molesworth) bad said, " Was
there ever such tyranny? Here is a Secretary of State
asking a colony whether it has any objection to receive
convict.." He (Lord J. Russell) had before him the
circular of his Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial-.
office, in which his Noble Friend, after having stated
that there,had been great complaints at the Cape of the
insufficient supply of labour, had expressed a wish to be
informed how Lr it was the opinion of the colonists that
a number of convicts could, without any danger or in-
convenience, be sent among them. Now, could anything
be less arbitrary or tyrannical than that?
Sir W. MOLESWORTII—I did not say that it was
arbitrary or tyrannical.
Lord J. RUSSELL continued—The Hon. Baronet
had complained of the tyranny of the Colonial-office in
the matter. The Hon. Gentleman who had made that
motion had said in April last that great objections were
entertained at the Cape to the reception of the convicts
sent to that colony, and it MO then been stated by his
Right lion. Friend the Secretary for the Home De-
partment and by himself, that if that were the case they
had no intention of forcing convicts on the colony
against its will. But there certainly did occur a case of
very great embarrassment for the Government, and one
in which not only his Noble Friend the Secretary for
the Colonise, but in which the Irish Government also,
and his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for the Home
Department, had found themselves involved. The num-
ber of persons transported from Ireland had increased
by a very considerable amount; they had increased
within a very few years from 700 to 3,000; and last
year they had actually amounted to that latter number.
But many of those persons who had been sent to Ber-
muda were persons really unfit for the hard work
which they had there to perform. They were per-
sons who, under the pressure of famine, had com-
mitted thefts for which they had incurred the
sentence of transportation; but who, under ordinary
circumstances, and it they bad not been placed un-
der the pressure of famine, would never, perhaps, have
appeared before a criminal court. Well, it had been
thought, after some consultation upon the subject, that
if 300 of those persons were sent to the Cape they
would do no injury to the colony, while they would
enable the Government to send to Bermuda some of those

convicts who were crowding the gaols in Ireland. His
Noble Friend at the he td of the Colonial-office had

stated, in a dispatch which was before the House, that
he had supposed the inhabitants of the Cape would not
feel any great objection to receive those 300 persons
whose crimes were not of a very atrocious character, but
he lamented to say that he had been entirely mistaken,
and be therefore withdrew the order he had issued upon
the subject. Now he (Lord J. Russell) asked if there
was anything in that transaction of so very tyrannical a
character—(Hear, hear)—or anything betokening a de-
sire to deal oppressively with the colony ? He did not
wish to go into the history of what had occurred at the
Cape, because he really thought that, although the
colonists were fully justified in saying, as they had been
invited to do, that they did not wish that convicts should
be sent among them, the manner in which their re.
sistanee had been expressed was one that did no
honour to those who had taken a leading part in it.
—(Hear, hear.) Sir H. Smith had stated, that the pro-
posed introduction of the convicts had been made a
pretext for public agitation; and he (Lord J. Russell)
had no doubt but that statement was a correct one. Ho

thought that Sir 11. Smith, who had been placed in most
difficult circumstances, had gone very far for the purpose
of appeasing the irritation felt upon the subject. Sir H.
Smith had said, that although he had been instructed to
land the convicts, he did not propose to do so, but that
he would have them in the vessel at anchor in Simon's
Bay, until he should bare received further orders from
home as to the mode of disposing of them. In the
month of April last it had been declared in that House,
and in a dispatch of his Noble Friend at the Colonial-
office, that the Cape was not a colony to which convicts
would be sent in future; and Sir H. Smith had de-
clared that he would not land those 300 persons
until he should have received further instructions from
home. Now, under those circumstances, it appeared
to him (Lord J. Russell) that people who had nothing at
heart but a wish not to have convicts in the colony might
have been satisfied with those declarations. But instead of
that, the excitement had become greater than ever, and a
gentleman in the colony had asked, at a public meeting,
if it was to be borne that they should be contaminated
by seeing a transport at anchor in Simon's Bay, and
which they knew contained convicts. Now, really that
was carrying the objection to convicts to an extent
which ono could hardly comprohend.—(Hear, hear.) It
was well known that there were, at the very same time,
some 200 or 300 of tho ordinary convicts of the colony
at work at Robin's Island, where they might be always
seen; and yet the sight of a ship anchored in Simon's

Bay. and liaving convicts on board, was a contamination
which the colony could not bear.—(Hear, hear.) Really
they had carried to a most excessive length their excite-
ment and indignation upon the subject. The Hon. Gen-
tleman bad chosen to raise that topic, ,end to make it a
main support of his motion; and bad he not done so, ho
(Lord J. Russell) should not at all have entered into a
discussion of the matter. Ho said, therefore, on the
whole, the motion of the Hon. Gentleman was inexpe-
dient; that even if he had proved his case with regard
to the Cape, that proof would not bear out his motion;
and that that instance itself had been so grossly exag-
gerated that it could not justify the conclusion which
the Hon. Gentleman endeavoured to deduce front it.
Mr. STANFORD said he should feel bound to vote
against the motion. He did not, however, wish it to be
understood that he was therefore indisposed to relieve the
colonies of the burden of transportation. But he did not
think that was the proper occasion for discussing that
great question.
Mr. ADDERLEY, in reply, said that the Noble Lord
would not add to his reputation by taking up the cudgels
for Lord Grey. The surprise which the Noble Lord
felt at the inhabitants of the Cape attaching importance
to so trifling a matter as the location amongst them of
a few hundred convict., reminded him of the taunts