The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-20 00:00:00

prise that his Hon. Frii rdhad voted Sir C. fletham in
Sul
;,p,ort of his views. Why he (Mr. Lsbotichere) would,.
if ne ()the evidence to refer to, rest hie whole'
cmhtke.t.. in app ,sitien to the motion of his Hoe. Friend, to
t.atinmey of Sir C. Iliithae. '1 hat /sunset officer
di,wiets'anefly declared that he would not coesi nt to the re-
ni.vo of tie Nuadron on the African coast until a sub-
ente te was found to prevent the traffic in slaver. No
toidletpictscl the horror of teat traffic, or the evils of the
ti passage, with greaeer power, or warmer indigna-
r_upethen Sir C. Hotl a r,.—(hear, hear.) Then, with
r:se to the question of authority, hi, Hoc. Friend
this
sclubt? the report f a Committee of the House en
,l• ct; butsurely the report of a similar Committee
Friend-
the fieuse ought to have its influence with his Hon.
to end- The Commite e of the House of Lords came
an opposite conelution from that arrived et by the
t,atnuaitti e of the House of Gm-arsons; they reported
tube' it was not desirable to to nor,' the ~quadron from
Pato4f.ical coast lion. Friend ssetee 1 to antici-
tt at the members of ih- G iverror e would repu-
diate the question of economy in respect to this ques-
"'•lt was true that the Got e7riment was bound t.,e;'U,ider the question of economy, bul-, he believ d that
of People of En4lancl would not, on the mere questioner, ,ePl'ornv alone, call fur the removal of the squedron
rjAttiean c e_ist, and by doing so give up their the
th,:d hopes and their a exious desire to put down file
"d ..—(rloar, hear.) But did lion. Genilereen
thitlit that if this squadron were removed there were no
thoPs in these seas to protect our tr'ide? He rather
ught that the constituents of the Hon. Gentleman
harP'site (Mr. Cardwell), who had a large and, he was
AfPrPY to say, increasing trade with the native tribes of
ief,",, would not be very well satisfied if that trade was
to unprotected; and he would here observe, that it was
wi,ihe extension of the trade of this country
th'e• the native tribes of Africa that he looked for
Thsfinal extinction of the slave traie.—(llcar, hear.)
" withdrawal of the squadron would restore the slave-
wa4l:i and give it a strength which they could not after-
wards obviate. Another point adverted to by the lion-
tLerlernan who had just sat down was, as to the influence
sh it exercised in the diminution of the transport of
that
from Africa. There could be no doubt that it road
the effect.—(No.) If not, how would tits), account for
w`l'e, increase in the price of slaves. The price of an adult
Price
slave in Cuba was now 1001., while in Africa the
Price was not than 201. They might judge what
the more
risk of the transport was through the intervention of
e squadron when he stated that Messrs. Hodge offered
te
I.,,eontract for the transport of emigrants from Sierra
tse_°.he. to the West Indies, paying every attention to
"r comforts on the passage, at 61. Is. 101. per head,
Ifad it might be assumed that the price, if the trade was
Cuba
would not be greater to Cuba, and that the cost at
11,114 would not be more than 261. 10s. He thought
vtuat the effect of having the price of slaves diminished
e ?hid be to cause to be resumed the practice of what was
ratified "using them up," which was attended with the
theat frightful results and cruelties. In 1821, before
e preventive squadron was established, the cost of
Slave was 20 dollars, but in 1847 it was 500 dollars,
sad in 1848 it rose to 800 dollars. At Cuba in 1821 the
Priesi;i of a slave was 100 dollars, while in 1847 it was
the dollars. He, therefore, was justified in saying that
Squadron did diminish the number of slaves. He
we
tstqlld now refer to the opinion of Sir Charles Hotham,
ts given before the Lords' Committee, who stated that
;1!) withdrawal of the squadron, without providing a
sastitute, would be giving up the whole question. He
Said
further, that to withdraw the squadron would be
initte
tous to the honqur of the country; and when inter-
rogated whether it would be injarious to the interest of
the
t country, he replied that in this case they were iden-
cal, and he added that cruelty to the slaves would bo
It.eatly increased by the withdrawal of the squadron.
Charles Hotham, by the answers he gave before
lhat Committee, repudiated the use of his name. There
Os another portion of the question to be considered
elect
they agreed to the resolution, which was the
vect it would have upon the people of Africa. It
s!l
euld have the effect of stimulating war and blood •
tiled among the natives, and renew those horrors
uich for two hundred years they had endeavoured to
Prevent. He thought, too, that this was a most inaus-
tLeious moment fro withdraw the squadron, when events
tere in progress calculated to imp
h rove the condition of
e natives. They all knew the effect which the Re-
Public of Liberia was producing, under the Presidency
of Mr. Roberts. He had the good fortune of meeting
that gentleman, and he could not but state that it was
k4ucist fortunate that it was under the guidance of so able
elan. That republic was establishing relations with
er neighbouring states, extending its territories, and
"ffusing its civilizing tendencies around it. It should
.
;B'3 be noted that there was in negotiation a treaty for
purchase of the Carinas, which had long been the
Seat of the horrors of the slave trade, and also for the
establishment
e of commercial relations with Dahomey.
The recent purchase of the Danish forts would greatly
contribute to diminish the slave trade. The result of
these circumstances would be to give a line
coast of 1,500 miles completely redeemed
er°ol the slave trade. He thought that the con-
nuance of the squadron would greatly promote these
Ilegotiations, and that it would, therefore, be most in-
iUdicious at such a time to withdraw it. He had also to
I,ZuLh to the injurious effect it would have upon the Bri-
s'sh colonies. His Hon. Friend desired that the trade
should be open. If that was the case, and the squadron
"'ithdrawn, the trade would be carried on by British ea-
I]ital and British seamen. Ile was sure his Hon. Friend
did not mean to revive the slave trade; but if the trans-
Dort of these people was allowed under the name of emi-
gration, British ships would go to Africa for the purpose
ilengaging in the trade. He was surprised that the rest-
ation should have been seconded by a gent eman eon-
zilleted with the West Indies. Now what the West Indies
most complained of was the want of labour, and could not
ehderstand why facilities should be afforded in acquiring
!laves to their competitors. He thought he saw symp-
es of revival in the \Vest India colonies. The export
ct‘ sugar from Jamaica was 657.000 tons, and in 1847
sod
; 1848 it was 689,000. In Trinidad there was an
increase of 1,593 tons; and in Antigua of 2,334 tons.
lie would only refer to the other document, he meant.
It was stated that with reduced prices the colony was
tePressed, but that notwithstanding this depreciation he
ad still hopss of improvement. Under these circum-
stances it would be a most inauspicious moment to make
tae
change proposed, the result of which would be to
rove their competitors an unlimited supply of slave las
or, He was surprised at the illustration to which his
1.5.°11. Friend resorted, when he said that we appeared in
tis case to lose sight of the principles which regulated
'4) operations of trade—an illustration taken from silk
sad tobacco, where the intervention of the smuggler cor-
lected the effects of extravagant duties, and consequent
igh prices. But it should be considered that this was
Pot a question of silk or tobacco. It %Yes one of a diffe-
rent
and higher character, and in which the feelings of
the people were at variance with the revival of the slave
trade. On these grounds he entreated them not to agree
44
.10 the resolution. He did not, however, mean to pledge
to the perpetual continuance of this force. That
was another question. If any other substitute could be
!euggested, or means devised, lot them bring forward
heir plan, and they would discuss it. He had no predi-
l
lection f ir this plan if a bet'er could be provided. He
tae net give his support to this measure as a member of '
Government. If there was any policy that was not
Peculiar to a particular political transaction, or to a par-
ticular Government, it was the question of the suppres-
'lutfl of the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) He did not,
m°wever wish to shelter himself under that. The Go-
vernment participated in the general feeling, and were
anxious to wipe off the disgraceful blot of the slave trade.
Mr. G. BERKELEY said it had been stated that
,Feat good would result from altering the size of the
ships employed in this squadron. He had been in com-
munication with a gentleman who was well acquainted
with this trade, and he would ask the Government
Whether it was not a fact that large steam-vessels were
engaged in this trade, which were capable of carrying
from
1,400 to 2,000 slaves, and whichcould outstrip any
sailing ships ? He had another remark to make,
Which was, that this was another recommends-
lion to throw good money after bad, of which they
cad already done enough. The Right Hon. Gentleman
said that the people of this country would not consent
supon mere motives of economy, to see the British squad-
:turf withdrawn from the African coast. Now, what was
'oe reason why they refused to protect the free-grown
Produce t f sugar, but motives of economy, and was not
that the motive that led to the abandonment of the
Policy of excluding slave-grown sugar? The Right
lion. Gentleman edmitted that the squadron was ineffec-
tive. Why, then, maintain it? When slavery was
abolished in our dominions they should have seen that
the treaties for its abolition by other nations were kept,
Whereas the fact was, they were violating those treaties
ueily. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that British
adventurers would embark in this trade if the squadron
Were withdrawn, but he doubted that. The best, the
most effective, the most religious way to put down
slavery, was to interdict slave-grown produce in our
markets. British Guiana, and some other colonies, were
tepidly returning to a state of barbarism under the new
Policy. The Hon. Member for Lynn would bear him
out in that statement. Ha thought that this squadron
Was totally ineffective for the purposes for which it was
Placed there, and as the House would do good by its re-
'hovel, he most cordially supported the motion.
Sir GEORGE PECHELL said he trusted the House
Would not agree to our taking a position which would
lower us as to the position which this nation enjoyed.—
(Rear.) He had ever endeavoured to promote the effi-
ciency of this service. In 1819 when the Noble Lord
came forward with a motion for an address to the Crown
to compel foreign nations to fulfil their treaties, he never
listened with greater satisfaction. Their records would
allow that the squadron was not ineffective. It
kieht have been more effective. As to large
Steemers being employed in the slave traffic, bidding de-
fiance to the fleet, he thought that there was no steamer
larger than the Cyclops, which was on that station.
Although their efforts had been in some measure unsuc-
cessful, yet they had performed a very large amount of
good. He hoped, therefore, that the squadron would be
Continued. The naval authorities, by sending out old
vessels, had not duly supported the Noble Lord in car-
? Ting out the treaties of this country. Some Hon.
Gentlemen supported the motion on economical
Principles, but if so, they ought to have suggested
this motion upon the motion of the Honourable
Member for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden) ;
not that he wished to reduce the fleet on the
coast of Africa, but rather on the coast of Greece, and
some other stations.—(Oh.) What did Mr. Hutton say
before. the Committee of the House of Lords? Was it
hot this, that the moment we withdrew our fleet from the
African coast, his ships would be driven into the sea?
Therefore, if on that ground our squadron were taken
away, it would be no economy at all, for piracy, robbery,
and every species of iniquity would arise immediately
upon the disappearance of the squadron.—(Hear, hear.)
Then what other means were there for putting down
this traffic? Treaties with the native chiefs? But to
hduee them to believe that they were sincere, they
hotild show that we ottrselTes were sincere by Ireepmg

our fleet there. It was said, that all the naval officers
examined before the Committee of the House of Lords
were rteatist the fle et being continued there. Bet were
nut Sir C. Sutherland. C iptain liaison, and Ceptain
Denman opposed to it? It was said ale, that it wes
impossible efTe.:tually to blockade 1,300 miles of
intersected by inland communication; but there were no
more in reality than about 200 miles of coast. They
had not withdrawn blockades in former times because
they were in some measure unsuccessful, and why should
they on this? He thought the fleet ought to be mote
more effective, and should theref Ire oppose the motion.
Mr. C. ANSTEY said that tee Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down had addressed himself to the interest
of the class to which he belonged, but that was not the
matter more immediately in question, to which he would
endeavour to bring the House back; but if like him (Sir
G. Pechell) he bad turned his attention to one poit.t, and
one point alone, he should vote for the motion of the
Hoe. Member for Gateshead. It, wai a !aiad situation
fir gallant officers to pronicee the pacification of Africa
by making war on all the rest ef the world. These
e admit officers had before them one or two alterna-
tives, either tr do nothing, or t i violate the law of na-
tions by endeavouring to carry out this Utopian olkct.
They must sacrifice every other coesideret,on to carry
into effect that particular tte a•y. Accerdiegly, the
Noble Lord the For. Secreta-y, who hod distin-
guished himself in carrying out this treaty, had f iund
it necessary to have some of his instructions revoked.
The Hon. Captain Denman and other officers employed in
that service, had, upon their return home, been crippled
by actions iii consequence of their efforts to carry out
their instructions.—(Cries of "No, no.") The Hon.
Captain Denman, in his evidence be:ore the Com-
mittee of the House of Lords, stated that it was his duty
to obey the commands given to him for the suppression
of the slave trade on the coast of Africa; bu that gal-
lant officer was of opinion that the means employed were
not efficient for that purpose, and the only means in his
opinion by which this country could hope to put down
the slave trade, would be by a Legislative Bill, the out-
line of which ho gave, and the object of which would be
a thorough blockade of the coast of Africa. But what
did the Legislature proceed to do on this part of the
question? It proposed to pass a Bill which would give
indemnity to all offenders for the past, and impose re-
sponsibility for the future. The Hon. and Gallant
Member (Sir G. Pechell) had adverted to a treaty with
the black chiefs for the suppression of the slave trade;
but that experiment was tried on a former occasion, and
the treaty proved abortive, and was but a mere mode of
evasion of the question.—(Hear, hear.) He held in his
hand the form of one of those treaties, and be found at
the foot of that treaty these words:—" That in con-
sideration of the signature attached at the foot of
this treaty, the Queen of England pledges herself to
Almighty God, to give unto the chief one pair of boots,
one shirt, and, of course, fire-arms, together with
some other insignificant presents."—(Laughter.) Now
that was one of the modes of evasion resorted to on this
question. What was the course which it was now pro-
posed to pursue? Were they to address the Queen?
No. But they were to ask other powers to concur with
them in putting down this traffic. Now what was the
result of all their proceedings on ;this question? Why
they had found that 38,041 slaves were decimated in
their efforts to put down this traffic. At 10 per cent.,
38,041 slaves had actually died. He found, on the other
hand, according to Mr. Cliff's evidence, the slave trade,
prior to 1831, was conducted by the Brazilians with
great humanity, and the mortality never exceeded 3 per
cent. Notwithstanding the " head money" offered for
the suppression of this traffic, a vast number of slaves
had been lauded in Brazils, and their price had actually
fallen in the Brazilian market. Now what was the evi-
dence of Lord Howden? He (Mr. Anstey) should like
to know whether the Government of this country were
to go on now with measures which were found to be
fruitless, or whether they were to take other measures.
Should they recall their squadron, seeing that it had
greatly aggravated the horrors of the slave trade?
An Hon. MEMBER—No.
Mr. ANSTEY.—Humanity says" No," and economy
says " Yes." Economy demanded it, but humanity
forbade it. Be thought they could reconcile both
principles, and that by the abolition of the Sugar
Duties Act they would do more to suppress the
traffic in slavery than by any other means which they had
yet had recourse to.
Sir R. INGLIS considered that the opinions given by
Sir George Pechell on this subject—opinions which the
Hon. Member who had just sat down had spoken lightly
of—were, as those of an experienced naval officer, to be
regarded as of importance by the House. He (Sir
Robert Inglis) thought that the treaties with the black
chiefs, if followed up, would have proved if the greatest
value in the endeavours to suppress this most abhorent
traffic, and of the greatest good. Last year they were
told by an Hon. Member in that House who was
anxious fir the withdrawal of the squadron from the
coast of .Africa, that it cost this country 500,000 E
a year to maintain it. Another Member made it
700,000/.; and another Hon. Member, not content with
that, had increased the cost to 1,000,000/. Now, the
expense of maintaining the blockading squadron in 1846-7
was not 500,0001, nor 700,0001., but only 300,0001.,
fled that including wear and tear of vessels, and
all other matters. And, in reference to a reduction of
the expense, the utmost it could be reduced to would be,
according to evidence, in the proportion which twelve
ships hear to twenty-four. Were they prepared, for
such a saving as that, to abandon their efforts to sup-
press a traffic like this, which had decimated humanity?
Were they prepared to pursue such a course? Since
the equipments, the number of captures had been im-
portant. In the ten years from 1830 the number of
slavers taken were not less than 6Z6, if his memory
served him correctly; and of the 656 vessels taken, 450
were captured close to the coast, a fact which led an
experienced naval officer to advise, as the most effectual
means of suppressing the traffic, that they should keep
an efficient squadron on the coasting service. They
should consider this question in reference to the progress
of civilisation, the feelings of humanity, and the progress
and character of Christianity.—(sHear, hear.) He could
not but advert, and he did so with much satisfaction, to
a petition which had been presented to the House on
this subject by the Noble Lord tat the head of her Ma-
jesty's Government. And here he must do the Noble
Lord the justice to say that he had always raised his
voice against slavery. The petition to which he (Sir R.
Inglis) had alluded, as presented by the Noble Lord,
was from the liberated slaves at Sierra Leone, and
prayed the House not to consent to the withdrawal of
the British squadron from the coast of Africa, and to
adopt effectual means for the suppression of the slave
trade. The petitioners went further, and prayed the
House to examine some of themselves on the subject;
and from the manner in which they expressed them-
selves in their petition, he (Sir R. Inglis) considered
that the House could not have better witnesses. They
stated in their petition that commerce was carried on in
the settlement by native industry; and the appeal which
they made ought not, in his opinion, to be disregarded
by the House.—(Hear, hear.) They owed it not merely
to the race of Africans, but to their own subjects, not to
afford the slightest pretence for giving further encou-
ragement to the slave trade. In the Committee whence
the report had issued favourable to the withdrawal, no
less than six resolutions, proposed by different Members,
were either carried or rejected by the casting vote of
the chairman, Mr. Hutt, and it, therefore, not unnatu-
rally, was called Mr. Hutt's committee. In his heart ho
believed it was inconsistent with the cause of humanity,
inconsistent with the spirit of civilisation in Africa, and
inconsistent with the national honour, to withdraw the
spuadron from the coast of Africa, and therefore, he
implored the House, and especially those friends with
whom it was usually his happiness, to co-operate, to
consider well the consequences of the motion before they
suffered themselves to be deluded into a consent to its
support.
Lord 'TARRY VANE said, after considerable hesita-
tion he had come to the conclusion of supporting the
motion. Before he proceeded to state the grounds on
which he intended giving his vote to the Hon. Member
for Gateshead, he felt desirous of making one or two
remarks in reference to certain statements made by the
Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade and
the Hon. Baronet the Member for the University of
Oxford. Both those Hon. Gentlemen evidently desired
to impress the House with the conviction that the deli•
berations of the Committee were valid by the casting
vote of the chairman, but in point of fact there were two
other members of the Committee absent on the principal
division, and as their opinions were known to coincide
with those of the chairman, the resolutions were in
reality carried not by one casting vote, but by three
votes. It was not on the ground of economy alone that
he advocated the withdrawal of the squadron, and in
this respect ho differed from the Hon. Member for
Gateshead. He took into consideration the long
series of years this country had endeavoured to effect
a suppression of the slave rade. He recollected the
efforts made by various Ministers at the head of
the Government with the same view, and he saw
how unsuccessful those efforts had proved. Under
Captain Denman the partial success in suppressing slave
traffic was not attributable to the presence of the squa-
dron, but arose from and was coincident with the co-
operation of the Brazilian Government. At one time
there were 40,000 slaves imported into Cuba, but there
were now very few. The decrease, however, he had
the authority of General Aleez for stating, arose from
the co-operation of the authorities. He did not believe,
nor did he contend that they could dispense with the
maintenance of some portion of the squadron on the
coast of Africa and Sierra Leone. If they desired to
succeed in suppressing the slave trade, they should
blockade the eastern and western coasts of Africa. If
they were prepared to make efforts on se extensive a
scale, they would then be right in continuing their
squadron. It was because he believed they could not
carry on a scale of sufficient magnitude, and that it was
not in their power to continue effective measures for a
length of time, that he thought it desirable to make the
alteration suggested. The question of providing a sub-
stitute for the squadron was one of great difficulty, but
he thought that it should not be urged as an argument
against removing an expensive force, whose presence
had not been productive of anticipated good results in
the suppression of the slave trade. Having been a mem-
ber of the Committee, and feeling anxious to justify
the vote he intended giving, as well as being desirous
of correcting certain statements made by the Right
Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, he had tres-

passed on the time of the louse, and he concluded by
expressing his intention of giving a reluctant vote in
favour of the motion.

Mr. CA.RDWELL regretted the course which the
Noble Lord had indicated his intention of pursuing.
The question they had to decide was, should they or
should they not make a surrender of the policy which
they had so long pursued, with a view to the suppression
of the slave trade. Ho deceived himself very much if a
fair analysis of the proceedings on which tho present
motion should rest would not stand in favourable con-
trast with many of the statements in connexion with the
subject recently made public, and with some of tho
speeches delivered that evening. They were told that
the operations of the squadron had been futile. If it

was mesnt by such a statement that the squadron had
been of little, if any good, then he could show, from in-
disputable evidence, that the, repression of the t-affia in
slaves had been considerable, and it the withdrawal of the
squadron were advocated, on the ground of economy.
they had the authority of eminent naval officers for
saying that the squadron should be maintained some-
where. He looked for the effective suppression of the
trade more to the influence of civilisation, and
to the introduction of the Christian religion into the
slave-producing countries. But suppression to ac m-
siderable extent had already taken place. From the
north of Africa to within five degrees of the equator
there was not a shadow of the slave trade. Captain
Dunlop's evidence went to show that the presence of
the squadron had a most beneficial effect at the Ga-
!otos ; and he believed, from the statement of that gen-
tleman, that if they possessed the power of indicting
chastisement on the slavestraffiAters, the repression
would be still greater. The slave trade had been put
down in Cuba, but if they withdrew the naval force the
price of slaves would fall, and then they would have
a renewal of the slave trade in Cubs. Such, at least,
was the opinion of Mr. Kennedy, the Consul at Havan-
t ah ; and it was fully established by other authorities.
The slave traffic, he acknowledged, had not been re-
pressed in Brazil. The native Brazilians discouraged
the traffic, and tar Portuguese eapitali.tr carried it on,
hei rg in communication with the colonies on the west
coast of Africa. So far as the Brazils was concerned
there was the testimony of a commercial ges-
tlernan, resident there, to the effect that were the
scurtdron withdrawn from the coast of Africa great
facilities would be afforded for the extension of the
slave traffic; which he had no doubt would be taken ad-
vantage of, as in his opinion the extension of that traffic
entirely depended on the withdrawal of the means at
present used for the suppression. That was the testimony
of a commercial gentleman resident in the Brazils, who
would not be apt to be led away by what was called the
sentimentality of the subject, and who must be held to
know what was the nature of the facts connected with it.
The effect of the present system of repression had been
to raise the price of slaves both in Cuba and Brazils; but
once the squadron withdrawn, additional facilities would
be given to the transmission, and consequently there
would be a reduction in the price of them. It was, how-
ever, said, that the measures which had been taken had
been the means of increasing the sufferings consequent
upon the slave trade; but on examining into the evidence
of those best calculated to speak on that subject he found
the reverse to be the case.—(Hear.) He had looked into
the debates which had previously taken place on the sub-
jec t,but on referring to the evidence of Sir Charles Hotham,
he found that the mortality under the present system
only amounted to about five per cent., which was a great
reduction as compared with former periods. So far
from the present measures not having the desired effect.
he found trom the admirals, both on the eastern and
western coast of Africa, that the slave trade had been
greatly put a stop to; and what was most gratifying
was, that while the admirals of this country were taking
steps for the suppression of slavery on that coast, the
French and American admirals did their best to second
their efforts. Finding all this to be the case he could
not, as an honest man, come down to that House and
say that the House should take on itself the responsibi-
lity of abolishing a system which had been attended
with such beneficial effects. Much had been said about
the disparity of opinion between the two Committees
which had sat on the subject; but in 1848, it must be
remembered, that they had not the evidence of Sir
Charles Hotham, otherwise he had no doubt that Lord
Courtenay would have come to a different conclusion
from what he did. Sir Charles Hotham expressly said
In his evidence that, were they to withdraw the squadron
from the coast of Africa small speculators would spring
up for the purpose of trading in slaves, and it would
be impossible to calculate the consequences which
would ensue. As he, therefore, was connected with a
borough which was intimately connected in respect of
trade with the western coast of Africa, he would ask the
House whether it would be judicious to withdraw their
squadron from that coast, and leave the trade carried on
with it, and all other interests connected with it totally
unprotected? No doubt the expense of the squadron
was complained of; but, in respect of that, he must say
that he could observed in the House, in respect of public
expenditure, this remarkable circumstance. When any-
one wanted anything carried out which was conceived
to be of public utility, did the Government object to it on
the ground of its being too expensive, immediately there
was a cry raised that they were a set of twopenny-balf-
penny fellows, and were not deserving of their places,
because they refused what was conceived so great a boon;
but then, again, when this money so expended came to
appear in the estimates, notwithstanding all the clamour
which had been raised for having it voted originally,
those same parties turned round and accused the Go-
vernment of lavish and profuse expenditure.—(Hear.)
Upon the whole, therefore, considering this motion to
aim at a reversal of a policy which he considered sound,
he would give it a decided negative.—(Hear, hear.)
Captain PELHAM said that while they were told
that the efforts in putting down the slave trade had
failed, he was prepared to show that it would be in-
jurious not only to the interests of Africa, but also to
the commercial interests of this country, were the pre-
sent motion adopted. He considered that the opinion
of Sir Charles Hotham was perfectly misunderstood.—
(Cries of " Divide " by gentlemen opposite.) No one
could deny that there were fewer slaves imported now
from the Brazils and Cuba than there formerly was, and
what had led to that result was the operations of the
squadron on the African coast. That of itself, then, was
a sufficient reason why it ought not to be withdrawn.
At one time there was no less than 94,000 slaves im-
ported annually into the Brazils, but now the traffic was
almost put a atop to. • It was said that the force em-
ployed had done nothing to put down the slave t-ade,
but that was contradicted by the evidence of all those
who had been on the coast. There was one thousand
miles of coast upon which the slave trade was almost
clone away with, and that of itself showed that the ef-
fect of the squadron had not been altogether unsuccess-
ful. The Honourable and Gallant Gentleman then went
on to contend that the withdrawal of the squadron from
the coast of Africa at the present time would be attended
with the worst consequences, but was so interrupted by
cries for a division that he was but indistinctly heard in
the gallery.
Colonel THOMPSON said there was one point on
which he was anxious to set himself right with the
House—that point was, that free trade had nothing to
do with this question. His Honourable Friends around
him were in perfect amity with lion. Gentlemen oppo-
site on this occasion in that respect. The principle of
free trade had always consisted in denying the policy
of giving any portion of the community a monopoly,
upon the ground that no class of persons should pos-
sess any peculiar advantage over the community in
general. The measure his Hon. Friend was now advo-
cating was free trade in stolen pocket-handkerchiefs.—
(Laughter.) That the Free-traders had never main-
tained. The argument which had always been super-
eminently urged against the traffic in slaves was its
immorality, and that it was a crime—and no commercial
question had any bearing upon it whatsoever. He was
afraid there existed a strong desire, a heat and lusting,
as it had been described, on the part of some to see the
sinews and limbs of the African employed in profitable
industry, not throughout the African continent only,
but elsewhere English commerce, of course, taking
its share.—([fear, hear.) Had they not seen an emi-
nent literary character once as hunger to literature de-
claring that the beneficent whip was the only thing for
negroes and Irishmen?—(Laughter.) The principle
now started against all men who had much to lose was
this—that all property of right belonged to him who
could make the ablest use of it. That was the principle
on which the slave trade was now argued for. Let them
see what the argument would come to. It would be
applied at some future time to the whole commercial
interests of England. Tnero was no man so pure who
was not willing to slip in with this most sweeping argu-
ment. Fancy every one denied of ability making the
best possible use of all they possessed—fancy that argn-
meat to be used by the men they met in the street be-
tween that House and Charing-cross. They might de-
pend upon it there was in this question that which deeply
concerned them, and all who stood by honesty, and who
hoped to pass through the world with a good reputa-
tion. Our ancestors were not so far wrong as some
thought them to be when they imagined that one of the
greatest glories of this country was the stern opposition
it had always made against the carrying on that most
monstrous iniquity, which had so long dishonoured man-
kind.—Cries of " Divide.")
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, when
Mr. GLAI)STONE rose to address the House amid
loud cries of "Divide, divide," and proceeded to say he
was reluctant the question should go to a division in
which he should vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend
without stating as briefly as he was able some of the
grounds on which he rested his decision. He did not
disguise from himself the serious consequences of that
vote, but in his view of the case the question was not
whether the squadron should or should not be removed
from the coast of Africa, but whether it was not right to
remove those preliminaries which were now a bar to a
further discussion of their engagements, or in other
words the compacts they had entered into on the sub-
ject with foreign countries. The proper spirit of the
motion made by his Hon. Friend was to vindicate that
question, for he would venture to say that matters could
not be more imperfect, or more open to objection, than
their present treaties for keeping a squadron on the coast
of Africa. The motion only referred, in point of fact,
to the treaty with France, by which each country bound
itself to keep 26 cruisers on that coast, for the suppression
of slavery, but after the lapse of a number of years
France changed her mini, and appealed to the Bri-
tish Government to relieve her from her engagements.
The Government acceded, unwisely in his opinion, and
instead of 26 cruisers France only keeps 12 vessels on
the coast to exclude her own subjects from engaging in
the traffic. That was a state of things so preposterous
that he though his Hon. Friend was justified in bringing
forward his motion.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Glad-
stone) had investigated the subject with great care, and
against every prepossession of his mind, against which
he was required to struggle and overcome; but he be-
lieved the time was come when some change should be
made. It was not that he thought less of the horrors of
the slave trade, for he believed it by far the blackest
crime that ever tainted Christian or Pagan, and it was
not on that ground, therefore, he should support the
motion of his lion. Friend. The peculiarities of the
present case were, that those who now condemned it ad-
hored to it as long as they could with a tenacious fidelity;
but from lessons of experience had felt compelled to
change their former opinions. They were told in
1840, by Sir Thomas Buxton, that it was
impossible to put an end to it in consequence
of the great gains connected with the traffic. The
present system was condemned by the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government, it was condemned by the Anti-
Slavery Society, and with respect to merchants, they were
told that the maintenance of legitimate commerce re-
quired this squadron should be kept, but all he could
learn was, that that body in general were opposed to it.
Then 0 to the naval profession, he believed their gene-