The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-19 00:00:00

had had the ball in his own hands, showing that it had '
been fired from a musket in the hands of the Ribbonmen
who were planted on the hill.
The Earl of CLARENDON said he had qaoted the
evidence of the sub-inspector, and the surgeon, who de-
posed that his skull had bsen battered in by some blunt
instrument.
Lord RODEN had ne doubt that that was occasioned
by the troop passing over the body afterwards, when it
was lying on the ground. He referred their Lordships
to the evidence of some of the witnesses, who could
have no interest one way or the other—namely, officers iu
her Majesty's service, for the purpose of showing that
the report furnished by Mr. Berwick was not so full or
so complete as that furnished by the short-hand writer.
The second charge brought against him by the Noble
Earl was one of a mach more serious character—namely,
that he was careless as to the preservation of the public
peace, and indifferent to the safety of human life. He
begged to deny distinctly that assertion; he had through-
out shown himself most anxious for the preservation of
the public peace and the preservation of human life.
Then with regard to the fact of his having attended the
sessions which had been made so much of, it struck him
that if he had absented himself it would have been an
acknowledgment that he had some reason to do so.
When these forty-two men were charged by the Crown
solicitor with being concerned in an illegal assembly,
he (Lord Roden) could not reconcile himself to believe
them guilty. He could not think that the procession
was illegal, or the Lord Lieutenant would most
certainly have told him that it was so. He had attended
the, sessions, and he bad gone there with the determi-
nation to do justice to every man. He was ready at the
time to take the informations against any of those per-
Sons who could have been shown to be guilty, and to
convict any of them who were proved to have been
guilty of those overt acts. He did not think that the
ends of justice had been in any way compromised by the
refusal of the magistrates to take the informations, and
the proof of that—and what he could not understand,
and which was, indeed, the most extraordinary part of
the affair—was, that although they had been pressed to
"take the informations in order to obtain the conviction
' of theirfriends, yet from that time to the present, al-
though two terms and two sessions had since passed, the
' informations remained untaken. The Noble Earl then
heferred at some length to the evidence of the sub-
inapecttr and other witnesses who had been examined
before Mr. Berwick, but in so low a tone of voice that
it was impossible to catch distinctly the comments
that he made upon it. He also referred to
a letter which ho understood had been written
to the. Lord Lieutenant, desiring him to advise her Ma-
jesty not to bring with her on her visit to Ireland a la:4-
a near relative of his (Lord Roden's); the object of the
writer being, manifestly, to degrade him in the eyes of
his countrymen, and to induce her Majesty to suppose
that he was unpopular. He assured their Lordships that
he had on all occasions, endeavoured, to the best of his
judgment, to act fairly and impartially between both
parties, and to show favour neither to one nor the other.
He appealed, in corroboration of that, to those who knew
him best; to those who know him not he need only re-
fer—and he did so with great satisfaction—to the very
flattering testimonials and addresses he had received
from various quarters—and concluded by assuring the
Noble Earl (Clarendon) that he never entertained any
feelings of personal irritation towards him for the part
he had taken in reference to those proceedings. The
Noble Lord, who was imperfectly heard towards the
close of his address, resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.
The Earl of CLARENDON explained, It was true
the Noble Earl had written to him on the 21st July,
stating that if his continuance in the commission of the
peace was an embarrassment, ho was ready to with-
draw from it ; but though the offer was a most generous
one, it never for a moment occurrel to his (Earl of
Clarendon's) mind, to put the Noble Lord out of the
oommission for the purpoan of saving himself trouble.
The Precessions Act which was to have been brought
in at Easter in that year was postponed through the
pressure of other important Irish btoinesa, but on that
occasion he had asked the Noble Earl what security he
would give for the guarantee of the peace on the lath of
July. The answer of the Noble Lord was, that he
would be at home, end would exam himself to keep the
pe ice among the Orange party in his own district. His
Noble Friend had subsequently told him that the pro-
cession would come to Tollymore Park, and he had sent
down, not because it was more illegal than any other
procession, but because a peculiar obligation rested on
his Noble Friend, at whose instance the Processions Act
had been postponed.
The Earl of ENNISKILLEN made some observe-
' tions in reference to the chests of arms sent to Dublin
for distribution among the Orangemen; but the Noble
Earl spoke with his back to the gallery, and was quite
inaudible.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said, after the speech of
the Noble Lord who brought forward the motion, no man
could do otherwise than honourably acquit his Noble
Friend (the Earl of Roden) of having violated the law.
So strongly was this felt that his Noble Friend had re-
ceived at the hands of 800 magistrates of all denomina-
tions a testimony of which any man might justly be
proud. If, however, his Noble Friend was guilty of any
breach of the law, in the courts of justice of the country,
and in those alone, should his Noble Friend be tried.
The Government then would have a right to pass sen-
tence upon him if he was found guilty; but the law
and the Constitution of England did not sanction in-
vestigation by an agent of the Government, to be
followed by condemnation, without a trial. It was
a perfect violation of the Constitution. Nothing but
accident had prevented him (Earl of Winchilsea) from
being along with his Noble Friend on the occasion in
question; and if he had been there he would have placed
himself at the head of the lodge of which he was a
member. Ho (Earl Winchilsea) maintained that Mr.
Watson, who had been removed from the magistracy
on a former occasion, was not guilty. The Processions
Act had been allowed to expire, because it was known
to be entirely confined to Orangemen, and not to extend
,to Catholics or Ribbonmen.
Lord STANLEY said it extended to all parties.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said he always under-
stood that to be the case, otherwise he could not com-
prehend how meetings should be held for the repeal of
the union without any interruption. The Noble Earl
.(Clarendon) had found he had no ground to stand upon,
and he had therefore exercised his power arbitrarily
and in an unconstitutional manner. There were two
parties in the case in question—the one the Ribbonmen,
who were prepared to carry out the principles of
James 11. ; the other the Orangemen, who were
supporters of the principles of the House of
Haeover. There could have been no appre-
hension of a breach of the peace on the part of
the latter, because they had their wives and children
along with them; but the Ribbon party were headed by
two priests, and it was well known that the greatest
portion of the men who formed it were brought from a
distance; and it was also known that an attack was to
be made on the Orangemen. Mr. Berwick, however,
only inquired into the proceedings of' the latter. If the
commission issued by the Noble Earl on that occasion
was a legal one, then there was no further security left
for the maintenance of the valuable liberties guaranteed
to Englishmen by the constitution. He (the Earl of
Winchilsea) considered that his Noble Friend had been
most unconstitutionally and cruelly used; but he envied
him the applause which he had received from a large and
honourable body of men in this country.
Lord BROUGHAM stood in the position of being a
person totally void of all party feeling, party views, and
party connexions, on the present occasion; and he came
to the inquiry, as his Noble Friend had eloqueutly said,
reckoning it in the character of a quasi-judicial decision.
Ile agreed that no baseness or impropriety of conduct
could be attributed to his Noble Friend (Earl of
Roden); but it by no means followed that he con-
sidered all his proceedings in this affair of such
a character as to entitle him to come to the
conclusion that he was unjustly, unconstitutionally, and
arbitrarily dismissed from the commission of the peace.
In discussing the conduct of the Irish Government he
thought they should take into consideration the volatile
character of his fellow-subjects in that part of her Ma-
jesty's dominions—the violence by which his Noble
Friend opposite (Lord Clarendon) was assailed at one
time, and the profound admiration which was expressed
for his conduct at another; nay, he was not only the
object, of adiniretion, but of the most heartfelt respect,
of veneration—he had almost said of adoration—with
those very people who in a few weeks afterwards, when
the lever had subsided, and the cold fit had set in, made
this lately deified object of their hero-worship the bject
of their most bitter vituperation.—(Laughter.) Those
iconoclasts broke with th image
which
e,r own hands the
a few weeks before they had formed with their
own
hands.
hands. The different circumstances of the two
countries, then, should be considered when any com-
parison was instituted between the conductn tiruerisaunddb the Government in England and in
If they could get 20,000 or 30,000 persons assembled
w i ti: ou t any rebellious or illegal purpose in
reign, they were very apt. before the day was over,
to turn their minds to an illegal purpose; for the very
numbers of armed men Leeame in itself a danger—that
which was icnocent and legal in itself, became a danger,
and therefore illegal by its endurance—it became illegal
by it t astonishing and terrifying peaceable subjects, and
by endangering the peace of the realm. Without going
into the particular details et the case, he should say that
even the purpose for which the assembly took place
made a collision eminently probable. Considering the
state of the magistracy of this country, and the profes-
sion to which he belonged, he could not let the debate
proceed further without stating thus much. With re-
spect to the dismissal of the magistrates, there could
be no manner of doubt that it was clearly competent to
the Keeper of the Great Seal to remove magistrates
from the commission of the peace ; but it was his
bounden duty to exercise his discretion soundly, and,
aboVe all, not from party
en oor personal motives. He was
bound to satisfy set
name
that there was good
ground for the erasure of the amefroemet tbhee
rceommeraveisd-
'don. He denied that a person could
froni the commission of the
There
ee unless he had
ere instances of
been convicted of an offence.
removal without such convictions thisinnai country; end
, stratss having
he believed it was most ordinery___,
laepeal or Orang
been dismissed there for attending
meetings. lie contended also that it was by no meanse
R--;es. unconstitutional to issue a commission to Mr. Berwic
. --ifiti administer an oath. He himself had, when •
Fes in posses.
-,7';'41 Hof the Great Seal, issued a commission, the result of
- ee •
e.aao.Z. hale was the ground-work of the Municipal Reform
• ,--T13,,_ iltsf 1835, and the commission was specially cm_
,`' :141PQ-red to administer an oath, though ho admitted
' c:a, here were some doubts us to whether perjury could be
' te Vatted fOr a false oath taken before that commission.
.. biot4bjezt of the commission was to satisfy the Govern-
' ht ,So far as regarded the short-hand writer's notes,
4t
er
' re ;vas - an end of .the charge against the fair-
ess and honesty 11,
of Mr. Berwick's report, and he
rejoiced that it was so. Under these circum-
eta:mere, he was of opinion that, though there were cir-
cumstances-in this case which, afforgedg round for re
gret, upon the whole substantial justice had been done,
va.,e right course bad been taken—that no objection

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