The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-15 00:00:00

Jy Iv

;,_j , -*/ • :.. : ,-,h- 1 -',.-ii,' t__,a
q ,
r
Council was summoned, and a proclanatirOn'tvasit:f4 12-1
i , , , s-1.:: j
up. It appeared that the greatest care N'clitil 'reqtred- ifi-::=;-,,.
the wording it, such was the responsibility,iinderikhitik;=l;"-,/
d
they felt that they were acting ;so that tiv2v4 r -
layed, and it was not until four o'clock on the at
MAO
afternoon, that the proclamation was posted upon the .
walls of Dublin and its neighbourhood.—(Cheers.) 'lf
the Right Hon. Gentleman had been desirous of showing
that the existence of such officers as a Lord Lieutenant
and a Chief Secretary of Ireland was an obstruction to
public business, exposing the Government to risk and to
delay, he could not have done so more emphatically than
he had done by a relation of these proceedings.—(Hear,
hear.) He was surprised, after listening to that state-
ment of
-the Right Hon. Gentleman, that among the
remedial measures which the Government intended to
propose, they did not include the abolition of the office
of Lord Lieutenant and the appointment of a Secretary
for Ireland to communicate directly with the Home,
office.—(Loud cheers.) If that had been the ease on the
present occasion, could there be a doubt but that the
Right Hon. Gentleman would have communicated im-
mediately with the Secretary for Ireland, and would
have addressed him instructions by the Monday's post
to take measures to put a stop to the meeting?—
(Cheers.) The Government had reason to congratulate
themselves on their fortunate escape from the fear-
ful responsibility. which they had incurred.—
(Loud cheering.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
himself could not deny that they had run, with regard
to that Clontarf meeting a fearful risk of the dlay
which had occurred in posting that notice.—(lmmense
cheering.) When they considered the immense num-
ber of persons who on the Saturday were flocking to
that multitudinous meeting, for so the Right Hon.
Gentleman in expatiating on the necessity for prevent-
ing it had properly described it, who could doubt but
that they had run great risk in consequence of the de-
lay, of Clontarf becoming the scene, not of a peaZeable
repeal meeting, but of strife, of tumult, of disorder, of
bloodshed ?—(Loud cheers.) They had, run the risk of
kindling the flame of civil war—(Loud cheers)—and
had such unfortunately been the case, fearful would have
been the responsibility which would have devolved upon
her Majesty's Government.—(Loud cheers.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman had admitted that the exertions of
Mr. O'Connell, added to those of the Government, had
succeeded in preventing the holding of the Clontarf
meeting; that by his aid the appalling catastrophe
of which Clontarf might have been the scene had been
averted.—(Loud cheers.) After that admission he
thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman had pressed
I rather hardly upon Mr. O'Connell when he had stated,
in referring to those exertions of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, that his exertions to maintain the peace at
those meetings had been produced against him as evi-
dence to proveithe existence of the conspiracy for which
he had been indicted.—(Cheers and counter-cheers.)
He thought that after the admission which the Right
Hon. Gentleman had made, that that reflection on Mr.
O'Connell might have been spared.—(Cheers.) He
knew that such an allegation had been made by those
who conducted the prosecution, but where was the proof
of it? That fact had not been substantiated by the evi-
dence submitted to the jury; and he thought that, con-
sidering the situation in which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman now stood, such an attack upon him was
unjust and unfair.—(Loud cheers.) With regard
to the future policy of the Government, the right
Honourable Gentleman had stated certain measures
which it was the intention of the Government to submit
to that House. With regard to those measures, so far
as he understood their character, he should give them
his support.—(Cheers.) They were, as he understood,
the extension of the franchise in the counties, the re-
moval from voters in the boroughs of, the necessity for
paying certain taxes before they could exercise the
franchise, the appointment of the landlord and tenant
commission, and the intended augmentation of the
grant for the purposes of education.—(Cheers.) He
believed that all these measures had a tendency to do
good ; but, whether taken separately or taken toge-
ther, they were net in the least degree adequate to meet
the requirements of the present crisis. He would ask
if they thought that a trifling extension of the county
franchise, that the removal of the necessity for the pay-
ment of rates and taxes by the borough voters, or even
the proposed augmentation of the grant for the purposes
of education—and while on that subject he would ex-
press a hope that the proposal of that grant would not .
give occasion to the Hon. Gentlemen who sat behind
the Treasury Benches, and some of whom were con-
nected with the Government, to indulge in fresh attacks
upon their Catholic fellow-subjects—(Loud cheers)—or
that the appointment, by the Crown, of a landlord and
tenant commission, which, however industrious and dili •
gent it might be, could not present any Report till nearly
the close of the session,—could they imagine that any, or
all of these measures, would be sufficient to allay the
excitement existing in Ireland, or to win back the affec-
tions of the Catholic population ?—(Cheers.) Thcrse
were not sufficient to remedy the evils existing in Ire-
land, or to bring back society in that country to a state
of peace and tranquillity.—(Cheers.) They were utterly
inadequate to the occasion.—(Loud cheers.) There was
one important point which had been touched upon by
the Noble Lord—he meant the state of the Irish Church .
—(Cheers.) Was not that a grievance which was
deeply felt by the Irish Catholics ? What hope could
the Catholic population of Ireland—the millions who
inhabited that country—what hope could they entertain -
of redress being granted for their grievances, while it
was determined to continue this grievance ?—(Cheers.) -
In considering that subject, it was impossible for any
one who knew anything of the feelings of human nature,
not to be aware that they must be considered as a great
grievance by the Irish people—(Loud cheers)—not so
much in a money point of view, as in its operation
upon the feelings of the Irish people.—(Cheers.)
It would be recollected that seven-eighths of the people
of Ireland were Roman Catholics, and the other eighth
were divided between Presbyterians and Protestants ;
and that the Established Church was kept up, exclu-
sively for that eighth portion. That was a grievance
that could hardly be exaggerated—it was a grievance
which demanded a speedy redress, and should be con-
sidered irrespective of all party opinion. He believed
the Right Hon. Gentleman had said that great difficul-
ties surrounded the question, as if any difficulty should
deter him from entering into the consideration
of it. Was it sufficient for a Minister of
the Crown to come forward on a great ques-
tion like that of the Irish Church, and tell that
House that it was surrounded by difficulties, and, there-
fore, they did not mean to change the present system,
nor to adopt any measure of conciliation ? Upon this
subject he (Sir G. Grey) must say that he had a very
strong feeling, and he was sure, that if any Hon. Mem-
ber were to be placed in the position of the people of
Ireland, he would feel strongly on the subject.—(Hear,
hear.) Nothing had struck him with more apprehen-
sion than the expression of the Right Hon. Baronet, that
the consideration of that question was not to be at all
entered into. The Right Honourable Gentleman said
that the- Protestant Church Establishment had been
settled by the Reformation, and guaranteed by
the Act of Settlement and by the Union.
He did not yield to the Right Hon. Gentleman in respect
for the Protestant Church Establishment, nor in the
'desire that its principles should be promulgated ; but at
the same time he could not consent that the Protestant
Church should be made an instrument of oppression.
He repeated, that it was most unjustifiable that the great
body of the Irish people should be compelled to support
the establishment of a Church to the tenets of which
they did not subscribe. The history of the Esta-
blished Church in Ireland would show that it
had been the cause of endless disturbances
and bitterness which it was hardly possible to
exaggerate.--(Hear, hear.) He was not to be
silenced by quotations from the pages of " Hansard."
Those pages would likewise furnish the sentiments of
Sir Robert Peel on the question of Catholic Emancipa-
tion, which were quite as opposed to the success of that
measure as any of the expressed sentiments of the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home
Department or the First:Lord of the Treasury, were now
against the modification of the Church Establishment.
He feared the discontent at present prevailing in Ireland
would be greatly increased by the declaration on the
part of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary of
State for the Home Department, of his determination to
maintain the present Church Establishment. He re-
peated, he believed that the question of the Irish Church
was beset with difficulty ; but, at the same time, he
thought that if there was an agreement by
common consent of the leading men on both
sides of the House to enter into a fair, full,
and impartial consideration of the question it would
do a great deal to strengthen the bond of union between
the two countries. It would give to the people of Ire-
land some confidence in the Imperial Parliament, and
render less their anxiety for a local legislature. He
would ask in what position had the Right Hon. Gentle-
man placed those Irish Members who had kept aloof
from the repeal agitation, and who had told their con-
stituents that they believed the Imperial Parliament
would do them justice ? What satisfactory reply could
they give to the inquiries of their constituents ? After
the declaration of the Right Honourable Gentleman
must they not abandon almost altogether the hope
that the Imperial Parliament would do them justice.—
(Hear, hear.) Must they not wish for a local
Legislature more ardently than before ? He hoped
the House would adopt his opinions ; and, upon mature
consideration. see the necessity of entering into the
views of the Noble Lord. He thought that if there was
an honest and determined effort made to remodel the
Church Establishment, it would do a great deal towards
remedying the present state of excitement and discon-
tent which at present prevailed amongst the Citholie
people of Ireland. That was the only way in which the
demand for repeal could be properly subdued. That
was the way to teach the Irish people that it was pos-
sible for them to obtain justice from the Imperial Par-
ment. He did not say that unreasonable expectations
had not been entertained, and that unreasonable
demands had not been made. But was it rea-
sonable—was it fair—was it just—that the House
should peremptorily refuse to inquire into the
subject, merely because it was of a religious
nature ?—(Hear, hear.) Why, the question of the re-
venues of the Irish Church had nothing whatever
to do with religion.—(Hear, hear.) The majority- of"
the Irish people, he repeated, were Catholics, and?
the House should deal with them as they found thew:
If the people of that country were possessed of the com-
monest feelings of human nature it was impossible that
they should not be filled with bitter disappointment sell
regret at the intentions of the Government, as expir=
by the Right Hon. Gentleman in the language
peoople, and what must be the consequence
ing,to consider what must be the dispositwn
ooff the
eI
rr Irish
which pressed upon thee m.-7( . , . se
vering and determined resistance to amHeelaiorrahteeathre)pg_rllc:ity -
ances
union, to be reserved, must bonlmy.ainTthaaintepdrionneitphlee
etnrins....a
ciple of equality,
.1
not be acted upon so long as the Church Establishi;nent
was maintained in its present position.
W
to the steps which should be taken to render 'the union
-e
r reference
complete, he would refer to the sentire ants which
had been lately published in the Edi b '
.
n 11.-4/4 Review, of