The Sun.
London, England, 1850-08-01 00:00:00

THE SUN,

which Government intended to pursue with respect to
the whole, but after what had occurred to-day, he could
not further delay making a declaration on the subject.
He agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman who bad just
sat down that the greatest alteration which the Lords
had introduced was the omission of the clauses which '
related,to the establishment of a federal government.
Under all the circumstances, however, of the case, he
thought his Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial- '
office bad acted right in consenting to the omission of the
clauses. Many objections were urged against them, and
above all it was said if the colonists desired a
federal assembly, it could be hereafter allowed
by the Legislature of the parent country On the
whole, therefore, Government was not indisposed to
adopt that amendment. The next alteration was the
introduction of words extending the franchise to squat-
ters. He would not say that this was an impolitic altera-
tion; perhaps it was only fair that the large body of
colonists who came under that denomination should
be represented in the local legislature—(Hear, hear)
—and Government did not therefore object to
this amendment. The next alteration deprived the
legislative council of power to make any change in its
forms and constitution. No doubt the giving that
power was one of the important objects of the Bill, but
not the object, aed as much good would result from the
Bill, even as it now stood, particularly as it would
lead to the settlement of the important question
as to whether it was advisable to give the colonies a ,
single or a double chamber, Government was generally
disposed to adopt most of the amendments proposed
by the Lords. With respect to the 32d clause of the
Bill, it stood in fact and in substance as it was originally
sent from that House to the House of Lords. They
bad reduced by one-half the amount of franchise, but
they had left to the colonies the power of altering the
qualification of the electors and the elected. They had
also left to them the power of altering the constituent
body, and also the power of introducing a division
of the legislative body into two chambers, and the mode
in which these two chambers should act. But there had
been a change made, under which he did not think it
would be in the power of the legislative council to pass
an Act by which the whole body of the single chamber
could be elected, and no one member of which could be
nominated by the Crown. He did not think it I
would be in the power of the council to
alter the proportions of its members, however they
might after the qualification of the electors, and al-
though they might divide the present legislative council
into two chambers, they would not have the power of
saying there should be a single elective chamber, and
that the nominees of the Crown should be altogether
excluded from that second chamber. On that subject
he should certainly have been disposed to say that if
such an alteration had been proposed by the legislative
council of New South Wales, although it was a
matter for their discussion and deliberation, he
should have felt very great objection to such an altera-
tion. He therefore felt the less objection to the altera-
tion which bad been proposed. He certainly thought
there were advantages in leaving the whole subject to
the legislative council, but if there was anything on
which the House ought to place a restriction, he thought
it was the power of altering the legislative council into
one legislative body. He therefore concurred in the
general policy of the amendments made by the House of
Lords, and he considered that this Bill upon the whole
would be a very great benefit to the Australian colonies.
Mr. GLADSTONE said the Bill before the House, in
his mind, was not a satisfactory Bill in its principle. No
doubt it had some advantages to recommend it; but in
his opinion a matter of the most crying necessity, that
of the separation of the colony of Port Philip from
New South Wales, should be accomplished. He thought
the House would have acted more wisely in seeking to
pass a perfect measure on this subject in the next ses- '
sion, when they would be in possession of more infor-
mation from the colonies, than in passing an imperfect
one at the end of the present session. The point in
which the Bill was not satisfactory lay in the third
amendment °tithe House of Lords, which took away the
power of the legislative council in the colonies of
altering the composition of the council.—(Hear,
hear.) The power of altering the consitution of
the council, and of affecting the balance of power as it
was fixed by the Bill between the Crown and the popular
body, was altogether taken away. The Government had
forgotten throughout all those discussions that unhappily
of all the changes which a single chamber was likely to
make, that of separating itself into two chambers
was the least likely, because it cut directly at
the pride and vanity of the parties most directly
interested in making it.—(Hear, hear.) Where they bad
a popular body guiding the fortunes and the legislation
of the colony, it was most unlikely, unless under peculiar
circumstances, that that popular body would consent to
set up another popular body by its side. Again, they
might alter the aggregate number of members of the
council, but not the proportions. The proportions were
sacred, and must not be departed from. He wished to see
New South Wales establish for itself stable institu-
tions, but to be stable those institutions must spring out
of the soil of the colony, and the attempt by the officials
in Downing-street to check the democratic principles of
the population of New South Wales, would not only not
check, but would give a more wildly democratic cha-
racter to the feelings of the people of that colony, and
tend to weaken the ties between it and the mother
country.—(Hear.) Ho considered those amendments
of the „House of Lords amounted, as nearly as possible,
to a breach of faith by the Government with the co-
lonists of New South Wales. The colonists would say
we had sent them a Bill which was most essentially
changed, and we had pleaded their consent to that Bill
for passing it in the House of Commons, and then had
permitted it to be altered in the House of Lords. In
fact, he (Mr. Gladstone) must register his pro-
test against this Bill, because, while protes-
ing to give free institutions to the colonists:,
it maintained the control of the Crown over the legisla-
ture of the colony, and, introducing uncertainty and un-
easiness into its legislation, it hai taken away that
great gift of liberty which was the apol,igy and the argu-
ment that certainly carried the Bill in the House of
Cummi,ns.

Mr. ROEBUCK thought it his duty to enter his sincere
and earnrst protest against this Bill. The House learned
now that it was acting on imperfect information. Surely if
perfect information were requisite it might be obtained.
but the truth was, that the Noble Lord at the head of
the Colonial Department was so determined in his own
course that he would never listen either to the sugges-
tions from the colonies or to the suggestions from
the House of Commons.—(Hear.) The House dui
not come to legislate on the colonies without ex-
perience ; they had experience enough to guide
them in that matter, and especially with respect to the
formation of a federative assembly. The Noble Lord
at the head of the colonies was determined to have one
council, and one council only; but was told over and
over again that if he adopted that plan it was im-
possible to make a fair and operative assembly.
The Noble Lord was told there was experience
about that matter to which no sane man
could shut his eyes ; and that there was a
plan at once simple and effective. That plan was simply
to have two chambers, one of them representing the po-
pulation cf the colonies, and the other chamber repre-
senting the colonies themselves. That was the plan of
the United States c-f America, hit upon by
the master-mind of the American revolution.
He charged every one of the Government who had had
anything to do with the Bill with an obstinacy which
could spring from nothing but personal vanity. There was
also another point. In a Bill which was to be a permanent
measure, bow was it that they had introduced provisions
which would be a source of constant quarrel. He referred
the House to the constitution which had been lately
framed by the settlers at California, and he thought that
when it was compared with this miserable specimen of
their legislative wisdom it ought to shame :every Mem-
ber of the British Parliament. There was nothing
in it which was satisfactory or certain, but
it was full of the seeds of eternal discord. The ~only
hope he bad was that when it got there it would create
such universal dissatiefactiun that they would be obliged
to reconsider the measure. He had denied (lien that
this Bill would please the colonies, and he re-
iterated the denial. He thought that when they
heard an ex-Secretary for the Colonies de-
claring that there was no chance of governing
the colonies without two Chambers, be thought it ought
to induce them to pause before they sent out this Bill.
It was, however, now too late, and all he could do was to
protest, and, as far as he was concerned, he had done his
duty.
Mr. CHISHOLM ANSTEY complained that :the
only 'clause of any value had been struck out in
another place ; and the Noble Lord had come down
and declared himself perfectly satisfied. He complained
also of the clause introduced there, which allowed con-
victs on tickets of leave an equal share in the franchise.
The Bill, he considered, was a contemptible Bill; and
he should have preferred going without it altogether
than taking it as it was.

Mr. MACGREGOR said the question was whether
this Bill gave or took away any privileges from
the colonists. He believed that it gave many of
them privileges which they never had before possessed.
Taking into consideration the moral and social condi-
tion of the colonies, he thought the Bill was a good
Bill, and that it had been rendered rather more
practical than otherwise by the amendments of the
Lords. He considered that the measure would be
very acceptable to the colonists, and he would give
it bis cordial support, being anxious that they should be
kept ro longer in suspense as to what were the intentions
of the Legislature.

The Lords' amendments were then agreed to.
ASSESSED TAXES COMPOSITION BILL.
Tbis Bill was read a second time.
The house then adjourned until five o'clock.

Tho House resumed at Fir© o'clock.
PETITIONS.

Mr. DISRAELI presented a petition from a body of
farmers in the county of Perth in favour of protection.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR presented a petition from Lei-
cester praying the Mouse to restore the delivery of
letters at the Post•office on Sundays.
Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from a place in
Yorkshire against Church rate:...
RAILWAYS ABANDONMENT BILL.
Sir J. GRAIIAM, after presenting a petition from a
' gentleman in Birmingham cumplaining of the conduct of
the Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway Com-
pany, asked the President of the Board of Trade
what were the intentions of Government with reference
to the Railways Abandonment Bill.
Mr. LABOLICHERE said the Bill was at present
under the consideration of his Learned Friend the At-
torney-General, who would shortly state what the inten-
tions of Government ss ero with reference to it.

Mr. MULLINGS presented a petition from a place in
Gloucestershire, praying the House to rescind the reso-
lution preventing the delivery of letters at the Post-office
on Sunday.
Mr. SOTIIERON presented a petition from a place
in Wilts praying fore rtain modifications in the Savings
Bank Bill before the House.