The Sun.
London, England, 1868-01-25 00:00:00

Like an ebbing sea that will come again,
Slowly retired that host of men .
Methinks they'll keep, some other day,
The oath they swore on the martyr's clay,
Its spirit steeled.
MACRICE DARCY, T.C.D
Deptford, S.E., London, Jan. 14, 1868.
Edmond Seale, landlord of the King William the
Fourth public-house, Wellington-street, Deptford,
said that on Sunday last Littleton, O'Leary, and
one of the others came to my house with the witness
Boutell. After a short time M'Carthy came in, and
then having ordered some beer, began talking about
America. One of the men called Boutell a--
Fenian. A very spirited conversation took place,
when Lyttleton struck his hand on the table and
said, "We've a snake amongst us, which must
be dispersed.'" I then interfered, when one of the
men challenged me to fight. In the meantime
Lyttleton, Boutell, O'Leary, and another one or
two,went into my back passage. They were going
to my parlour, but they found it locked. Boutell
asked me for the key, which I called for, and then
gave it to him, and then all except Lyttleton went
into it.
Lyttleton--I hope you will pay attention to that.
Witness continued—Lyttleton was then in the
front of the bar. I don't know who it was who
said, '6 Let us sit down and talk over some matters
we have to settle." I think all the people in the
parlour must have heard that remark. I afterwards
told them that as it was getting near three o'clock
they must settle their conversation, as I was going
to close the house. I then went into the bar.
O'Leary then came out and advised Lyttleton to
go into the parlour, but he said, " I shan't," but
he afterwards went in with O'Leary. At two
minutes before three o'clock I went to the door
and told them to come out, but I found
the door locked. I demanded admission, and in
two or three minutes the door was opened by
O'Leary, and I then said, "As my house is closed
in front, you must go out the back way." Richard-
son did not come to me and make some remarks
about what was going on inside. I did not see them
come out of the room until I had tried to open the
door, or before they all left. About a quarter to
five Boutell, the same afternoon, came and told one
he had had a conversation with the prisoners.
.e hloiuustee
rtfoegr
eedt ewr
h. e
uOriLy
tetaireyt
°tun tried
dt
eo
astrike
M'Carthy,O'Leary, Lyttleton, and Richardson came
m
ißnotoutet
at me and struck me in the jaw.
Lyttleton—That's true.
Witness continued—Richardson told him he had
no right to strike me, and after that I got them out
of the house and I did not see them auy more.
Cross-examined by Mr. Pulling for ItiehArdsou
and M'Carthy—l have occupied the house two
years. I don't recollect ever seeing M'Carthy be-
fore that occasion, and then he came to Lig wire
about a potman. I don't remember to have seen
Richardson at my house previous to that day.
was about two when M'Carthy came. The con-

versation before the bar occupied about a quarter
of an hour. I cannot account for the time between
that time and three o'clock when I closed the house.
I don't know what they did during the other part
of the time they were there. They were in the
room about a quarter of au hour. They all went
into the room, but I can't swear that M'Carthy did
not leave the room, neither can I with respect to
Richardson. I recollect the door being locked, but
I don't remember anybody coming to me after
that. I believe that M'Carthy came out of the
room first, but I don't recollect exactly how they
came out of the room. My impression is that
M'Carthy was standing outside the door when I
went to knock at it. I had not noticed him there
before, so I cannot say how long he had been out-
side. He was not outside the back door of the
house—it was the parlour door I am speaking of.
I told him I wanted to turn the men out, but I
don't recollect his reply. I don't recollect him
saying he was waiting to arrest one of the parties
as a Fenian.
M'Carthy—Y on don't recollect that !
Witness continued—l will not swear M'Cartby
did not use the words. He might have done so,
but I did not hear them. I did not see Richardson
outside the door before the other men came out.
He did not come and say to me, There is some
bad business going on inside, and you had better
get the men out." Nothing of the sort was said.
M'Carthy did not say he was waiting to arrest any
one. When I opened the door I let out three men,
Lyttleton, O'Leary, and Boutell.
Mr. Maude —Then there was nobody left in the
room?

Witness—No, sir.
Cross-examination continued—At half-past five
I recollect M'Carthy coming to my house, and
I remember the fact from the circumstance that
the party were the last to leave and the first
to return. I took particular notice of O'Leary,
Lyttleton, and Boutell, but Richardson 1 knew took
part in the fight, as he tried to defend me. During
the whole of the Sunday I never heard one expres-
sion relative to Fenianism from M'Carthy, neither
did I from Richardson. After the afternoon occur-
rence at two o'clock on the Sunday, in the evening
at five o'clock I again saw Boutell ; he came to re-
port to me what had been done. He went away,
and I have not seen him since. I had seen Boatel]
come in for the first time about a week before the
occurrence of which lam speaking took place. He
never asked me whether Irishmen came to my house.
My house is supported entirely by Irish people. I
cannot say Boutell was there in frequent conversa-
tion with my customers. I don'tk now what he usually
talked about. I don't think I ought to be expected to
know what all my customers talk about. I have
seen Ling the detective once in my house with Bou-
tell. I have seen Boutell twice, reckoning the time
I have seen him in court. I never heard Boutell
swear that he was not a Fenian. I don't know how
much drink Boutell had on the Sunday, but I know
he did not spend three shillings. He c.nild not h ave
done so; he only had beer. I keep a tally, but not
against men of principle, and I consider Boutell to
be one of that class. I know he would pay me if
he owed me anything without my asking him foi
it. I will not swear that he does or does not at the
present time owe me money.
Mr. Maude—You don't run accounts ; yours is a
ready-money business.
Witness—Yes.
Mr. Maude—And if a person whom you knot
comes in a hurry and takes refreshment and does
not pay, you don't take notice of it on the instant'?
Witness—That is so, sir. I don't know an ex-
policeman named Knight.