The Sun.
London, England, 1868-04-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAsT EVENING.
Tha LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
at five o'clock.

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

Lord MA.LMESBURY moved that the house adjourn
11 Thursday, the 23d of April, at its rising to-morrow.
MARINE MUTINY BILL.

On the motion for the second reading of this bill,

The Duke of CAMBRIDGE said that he would remind
their lordships that in the place of the suspension of
corporal punishment in this bill no punishment had beon
introduced whatever. They were placed in this position,
that should any mutiny occur in time of peace they did
not know what punishment to inflict. lie would say
that an army, unless thorough discipline was maintained,
would be very distasteful to the people of this country.
The Earl DE GREY said that ho understood the ques-
tion to bo that the corporal punishments having been
withdrawn, that no other punishment hail beon instituted.
Now ho thought her Majesty's Ministers ought to see
that there were substitute punishments upon which
court martials could act.

A Noblo LORD said that in consequence of her
Majesty's Ministers names not appearing to vote for the
bill, it arose from the fact that it was thought best that
those persons who had been tnomb3rs of the Royal Com-
missi ,n should net vote on the question.
Earl RUSSELL said that ho was given to understand
that there would this year be a majority in favour of the
abolition of corporal punishment, but he thought that im-
mediately after passing of the last bill the Government
ought to have appointed a Royal Commission.

The bill was read a second time.
INCLOSURE BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
POOR RELIEF BILL.

The Select Committ:)e proposed on this bill were ap-
pointed.

INDIAN RAILWAYS COIIPANIES BILL.
The amendments on this bill were gone through and
received.

CONSOLIDATED FUND £6,000,000 BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
LONDON COAL AND WINE DUTIES CONTINUA-

TION BILL.
This bill was committed and passed.

RECEPTION OF PETITIONS.

Earl RUSSELL moved that a select committee be ap-
pointed to which petitions should be referred.
The motion was agreed to, and their lordships adjourned

HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAST EVENING,
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
COMMUNICATION WITH IRELAND.

Colonel DYOTT presented a petition from a person in
Walsall, praying the house to establish direct railway
communication between England and Ireland. (A. laugh.)

THE IR:SH 011URCII.

A great number of petitions were presented both against
and in favour of the disendowment of the Irish Church.
MERCHANT SHIPPING ACTS.

Mr. GRAVES asked the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade if he could say when the Merchant Shipping Con-
solidation Bill would be introduced ?
Mr. CAVE said circumstances had prevented the com-
pletion of the bill.
TECHNICAL EDUCATION.

Mr. BRUCE asked the Vice-President of the Committee
of Council on Education if it was true that Mr. Whit-
worth hat offered a very large sum to be applied in pro-
motion of technical instruction; and if so, whether he
could state what was the precise nature of the endowment
and whether he could lay upon the table of the house any
papers on the subject?
Lord R. MONTAGU said it was quite true that Mr.
Whitworth had offered to found 30 scholarships of £lOO
each in furtherance of the object stated. The minute of
the Pi ivy Council accepting the offer, and thanking that
gentleman for it, was the only papr he had on the
subject.
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS.

Mr. MILL asked the First Lord of the Treasury
whether it was his intention to propose any measure,
either separately or as a provision in the Election Petitions
and Corrupt Practices at Elections Bill, for the prevention
of bribery at municipal elections.

Mr. DISRAELI said the subject was of great impor-
tar.co. Ho intended to make every effort to carry the bill
with respect to political elections, but he did not intend to
mix that up with other questions.

THE ABYSSINIAN EXPEDITION.
In roply to Mr. FAWCETT,

Sir S. NORTHOOTE said ho was not yet enabled
to state what would be the exact cost of the expedi-
tion. Ho did not think he should b 3 able to give
any direct or positive information on the subject until
after the holidays. It might be interesting to know that
he had received a telegram from Sir R. Napier, who had
now arrived to within 25 miles of King Theodore's
camp, so that as at that time he had started no doubt
he should be able to announce the 'wilt of Gan. Napier's
close proximity to the King. Ho hoped not only to be
able in about three weeks to state the total cost of the ex-
pedition, but that the expedition was returning home-
wards. (Hear, hear.)

ELECTRIC TELEGRAPHS.
In reply to Mr. AYRTON,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
intended as soon as possible to lay papers on the table
with respect to the bill for the acquisition of tho electric
telegraphs.

THE IRISH CHURCH-LORD STANLEY'S
AMENDMENT.

Mr. YORKE proceeded to state that the first division
would not be taken on Lori Stanley's amendment, and
he at first thought the noble lord intended to withdraw his
amendment. If the division was to be taken on tha
motion "that the words proposed to be left out stand part
of the question," and it was carried, the noble
lord would be precluded from taking a division on his
amendment. As the communication was by no means
clear he had to ask the noble lord whether he intended
to withdraw his amendment or not, and whether he would
state the exact position of the motion.
Lord STANLEY said he was not the author of the
communication referred to; but this he could say, that no
change was proposed to take place in the position he had
taken up when ho gave notice of his amendment.
Lord CRANBORNE said he had to ask Mr. Speaker to
point out on which the division would be taken. Was it
to be considered a division on the main question that the
house resolve itself into committee. (Hear, hear.)

The SPEAKER said there having been an original mo-
tion made, an amendment had been proposed, therefore
the house was practically engaged in a discussion on the
amendment. (hear, hear.) It would be quite fatal
to the amendment if, on a division, the proposition
"that the words proposed to be left out stand part
of the question" b 3 carried. (Hear, hear.) Then the main
question would come on for consideration. (Hear, hear.)
In reply to Mr. WHALLEY,

Mr. GLADSTONE said if the endowment of the Irish
Church were to be taken away, the consolidation fund
would have to be relieved of all such charges as the grant
to Maynooth College.
Mr. ROEBUCK then resumed the adjourn od debate by
presenting a number of petitions in favour of the dison-
dowment of the Irish Church. He said the subject which
at present occupied the Parliament was one of the
utmost importance, and each member of the house
would have to state boldly the view he took of the pro-
position, and he had no hesitation in saying that ho
should vote in favour of the resolution of the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Gladstone.) He was one of those who
looked at any Church establishment as a bad instrument
for teaching religion, and it was idle to say that which the
house had established it could not disestablish. (Hear,
hear.) He hoped that no party trick was intended on
the present occasion, and that if they on his side of the
house ousted the Government, as he thought they would
—(hear, hear, and laughter)—the right hon. gentleman who
had brought forward the resolutions would be prepared to
introduce a bill to carry out his object. (Immense cheer-
ing.) In his opinion, if Ireland was separated from this
country it would be cutting off the right hand of Eng-
land, and the house was called upon to do everything in
its power to maintain Imperial rule in Ireland unimpaired.
That rule must be maintained under all circumstances. He for
one would never assent to any proposition to weaken or
disarm one part of the British empire from the other.
(Cheers.)
Mr. HENLEY said it appeared to him that the real
question at issue was the repeal of the union, a proposition
he could never consent to. He was convinced that the
proposition of Mr. Gladstone would fail as a measure of con-
ciliation or pacification. It was nothing more than play-
ing into the hands of those who wished to dissolve the
union between the two countries. Holding this convic-
tion, he felt he would be a traitor to his country, to his
Sovereign, and to his God if he were to give his vote for
the resolutions proposed by the leader of the Opposition.
General PEEL was persuaded that if the house were to
agree to the resolutions the inevitable result would be
separation of Church and State in England, and the repeal
of the union in Ireland. The reason for the disaffection
that prevailed in Ireland was that England had always
sympathised with revolutions elsewhere. The letter which
the Premier had written to the Earl of Dartmouth con-
tained sentiments to which it was to be hoped he would
adhere, although he owned that ho was not sanguine as
to the constitutional tone of the Administration- For his
own part he viewed the threatened changes in Church
and State which bad lately taken place with consider-
able apprehension, and he owned that if " No surrender"
was to mean no dissevering of the connection between the
Irish Church and the State, he was prepared, as a member
of the old Tory party, to adopt that cry. Doubting, there-
fore, the policy of the original motion, and also that of the
amendment, he should vote against both.
Mr. LOWE invited the house to look at the religious
statistics of Ireland, which showed that of every 100 of
the population 78 were Roman Catholics, 12 members of
the State Church, nine Presbyterians, and one waif or
stray. Where was a IgUlplC. eloquence abput these figures

which ho owned went to his heart. Twelve per cent. of
the population, and that the most wealthy portion, had an
endowed and Established Church, while the 78 per cent.,
who wore the poorest, had no provision whatever for
their spiritual wants beyond that which they supplied for
themselves. This arrangement reminded him of Dives and
Lazarus, with this exception, that whereas Lazarus got the
crumbs from the rich man's table, the Catholics of Ireland got
nothing—but insult. It might, ho knew, be thrown in the
teeth of the Liberal party that they had not moved earlier in
this matter. He regretted they had not ; but that argument
could no longer be used. The hour au I the man had now
come. The Liberal p irty had got their leaden and they
would not shrink from the challenge they had thrown
down. [Referring next to the letter of the Premier to Lord
Dartmouth, he asked whether " the sacred union" be-
tween the Irish Church and the English State had not
itself been brought about by an Act of Parliament carried
by means the reverse of sacred. The whole course of the
Government last year on the subject of Reform, and this
year with respect to the Irish Church, was weak, vacil-
lating, and contemptible. The letter to Lord Dartmouth was
utterly inconsistent with the amendment of the Foreign Se-
cretary, for while the former proclaimed a creed and hoisted
a standard, the latter gave up the Establishment alto-
gether. Such hollow devices would no longer have any
effect upon the public, and the Premier would find that
the limit of human gullibility had been reached. The
Irish Church stood oa a rotten foundation. It was based.
on the dominant rights of the few over the many, and it
must not be allowed to st mud. IV,.y, he asked, should
such a corpse ba united to the living body of the English
Church ? It was like an exotic purchased at a great price
and brought from a far country, but planted in an un-
congenial soil and in an unfavourable climate. It had the
curse of barrenness upon it ; it expanded no leaves ; it bore
no blossoms ; it yielded no fruit, and the sooner it was cut
down the batter, for it cumbered the ground.

Mr. 110IM'ALL apprehended that if the Church of
Ireland were disenclowed Cue Church of England would be
in danger of suffering a similar fate. .

Mr. CLIVE was in favour of making some provision for
the ministration of religion, for voluntaryism pure and
simple often led to fanaticism, as in the case of America.
Speaking on behalf of the University of Dublin, Mr.
LEFROY denounced the scheme of disendowtnent as
unconstitutional and unjust, and as calculated to produce
much mischief in Great Britain as well as in Ireland.

Sir J. GRAY quoted statistics to show the anomalies of
the Irish Church, and which he insisted amounted to an
intolerable scandal. The Stata Church had bo.n forced
upon an unwilling people in Ireland, lite.-ally at the point
of tho sword, and yet it had never taken root in the coun-
try, and after nearly three centuries continued to be, not
an object of esteem and veneration, but the badge of ascen-
dency and the emblem of degradation.
Lord C. J. HAMILTON contended that Mr. Bright had
underestimated the number of Episcopalians in Ireland,
and declared that the majority of the people of that coun-
try were not in favour of disendowment of the Church.
He warned the house how it tampered with the ecclesias-
tical establishment of the Protestants of Ireland.
Mr. OSBORNE having reminded the house that ho had
himself some years since proposed the reform of the Irish
Church, and had been told by the Opposition that he would
endanger the Establishment, and by his friends that the
time for action had not arrived, charged the Whigs with
being wakeful in opposition and sleepy in office. He ad-
mitted that the resolutions before the house were strong,
but they had been suddenly forced upon Parliament in the
shape of a party question by the apathy and vacillation of
the leaders at either side. The spiritual staff of the Pro-
testant Church in Ireland was ludicrously in excess of the
wants of the Episcopalians. For 693,000 Anglicans, 12
bishops and upwards of 2,000 clergy were provided. Ap-
plying the same episcopal power to England, there ought
to be 240 bishops, and about 50,000 ecclesiastics. If reform
and not disendowment were to be the remedy for the
abuses of the Church, the Establishment should be reduced
to the actual wants of the people. One bishop for each
province with £2,000 a year, and a body of 500 clergy,
would be amply sufficient for the legitimate requirements
of the Protestants. He did not believe that disendoWment
and disestablishment alone would pacify Ireland. No
single measure could effect that object. Time alone could
efface the memory of the bitter wrongs which Ireland
had suffered at the hands of England. Just and liberal
measures might eventually pacify the country, and
the sooner they were brought forward the better
for, however delay might suit the exigencies of a
Government, it was dangerous to the wellbeing of a
nation.

Sir S. NORTIICOTE characterised the tactics of the
Opposition as au attempt to upset the Government by an
abstract resolution framed to catch as many votes as pos-
sible. The course which the Government intended to
adopt was in the first instance to take exception to the time
selected for entering on the consideration of the subject
They would consequently challenge the first resolution,
that the Speaker leave the chair, and, if beaten upon that,
they would meet the Opposition on the resolution in de-
tail. The gist of the amendment put forward by the Go-
vernment was that in the present position of Parliament
the house could not with advantage deal with a question so
grave and f4J complicated. lie objected to the resolutions
on the ground of their vagueness. What, ho asked,
was to be dono with the surplus funds, and what
was the meaning of the phrase that they were to be ap-
plied to " some Irish object." Did the loader of the
Opposition mean to spend the money on Cork harbour or
on the reduction of the duty on whisky ? To abolish the
Protestant Church in Ireland was not, in his opinion, the
best way of pacifying the country. Ho did not believe it
would satisfy the Roman Catholics, while it would irritate
the feelings and hurt the susceptibilities of the Protes-
tants.

At midnight, on the motion of Mr. Coleridge, the debate
was adjourned until this day.
In reply to Mr. Gladstone,
_ _ _

Mr. DISRAELI said as he had no doubt the discussion
would be brought to a conclusion to-night, he hoped to be
able to meet the wish of the 7-louse by submitting a mo-
tion for adjournment at its rising over the Easter holidays.
The remaining business on the paper was disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a quarter-past twelve o'clock.

IRELAND.

DUBLIN, April 2.

The announcement that the Princess of Wales
will accompany the Prince on his visit to Dublin has
at length been officially confirmed, and the cloud of
suspense which rested for a while upon the public
mind and chilled the ardour of its loyal anticipations
is now dispersed. A reaction of joyous excitement
has set in and redoubled efforts will be made to give
such a reception to the Princess as may be creditable
to the city, The illuminations which were included
in the programme of festive demonstrations will, it
is expected, be general and upon a more brilliant
scale. Although the procession from the Castle
to St. Patrick's upon the day of the instal-
lation has been shorn of much of its popular
attractiveness by the omission of the knights,
who are to stand not upon the order of their
going, but to proceed to the cathedral before its
arrival, it will be an imposing pageant, the pre-
sence of the Princess in the cortege imparting a
lustre to it which it would not otherwise possess.
The equipages of his Excellency the Lord-Lieute-
nant and the Royal party will be numerous, and it
would prolong it to an inconvenient length if all the
knights were to join. Minute details of the arrange-
ments will be explained in a few days by the publi-
-cation of the official programme. There is no
ground whateverlfor the statement that any Van-
dalism is being committed in the cathedral. The
utmost care and vigilance have been exhibited by
Sir Bernard Burke, and the monuments and fittings
of the sacred edifice will be fully protected. Some
of the alterations which have been made are mani-
fest improvements, which will probably be allowed
to remain, but distinct arrangements have been
entered into for having the cathedral restored to
its former state. The chair used by William 111.
will not be brought into requisition on the occa-
sion. Two Chairs of State of Irish yew are being
manufactured in Dublin for the Grand Master and
the Prince.

A return dublished in the Daily Express gives
the following exports of cattle and sheep from the
port of Dublin during the three months ending 31st
of March :—Cows, 24,038 ; oxen, 11,437 ; calves,
116 ; sheep, 45,652 ; swine, 45,847.
The same journal states that at the meeting of
Convocation of the Queen's University, to be held
on the 14th inst., a resolution is to be proposed dis-
tinctly protesting against the proposed charter to
a Roman Catholic University. The Express ob-
serves :—" We rejoice that the Queen's University
has added its voice to the general chorus of Irish
public opinion reprobating the dereliction of prin-
ciple involved in the proposed measure. From the
north, as well as from other parts of Ireland, from
England, as well as from this country, there is but
one cry of astonishment and indignation at the
position which her Majesty's Government assumed
upon this question. This is not the result of any
antiquated prejudices against the Roman Catholic
religion, as some pseudo-Liberal Conservativesta. re
always contending. It is the result of an attentive
study of history and of the facts of thisparti_culhar
case, of a conviction that the necessities_ of t e
Ultrarnoutane priesthood in their struggle with
modern ideas are driving them into a course of
action which it is the duty of all who attach any
value to Protestant principle to withstand at every
point."