The Sun.
London, England, 1844-08-07 00:00:00

This appeared to him to be a complete demonstration
that the system was increasing. He believed that much
misapprehension existed with respect to the national
system of education. An impression had gained ground
that the Divine Scriptures were excluded from the
schools. This was most erroneous. He had only to re-
peat that it was the intention of the Government to give
their warm and cordial support to this plan of national
education. His refusal to establish a separate grant for
the Established Church was as strong a proof as he
could give of his disposition cordially to support the
national system of education. If they were to establish
a separate grant, the Presbyteriaa would ask for a similar
grant, and then there would be three grants for the same
purpose. With respect to the particular document
which the Hon. Gentleman had called for, he had to in-
form him that no such correspondence was in existence.
Lord Heytesbury knew that it was the intention of the
Government to give their cordial support to the national
system of education ; but he had received no instruc-
tions to appoint persons in the Church who were favour-
able to that system, and them only ; as, in his (Sir R.
Peel's) opinion, such a course would have the effect of
retarding rather than advancing the progress of that
system.

- Mr. WYSE did not think a separate grant would be
advantageous either to the Roman Catholics or the
Church. Re did not think that the system of national
education could be worked out well, while the digni-
taries of the Church of Ireland were so hostile to it.

Lord EBRINGTON regretted that the tone which
had been adopted by the Right Hon. Baronet that night
had not always been the same. If the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had indulged in the same tone when he was in
opposition, many of the difficulties with which the na-
tional system of education in Ireland had to contend
would be removed. He did not know whether the Right
Hon. Baronet had or had not given the system a silent
vote, but he never expressed himself favourable to it.
With respect to the appointments made by the Lord
Lieutenant, with whom he was most nearly connected,
he would say that he looked ,core to the opinions held
by the clergymen he advanced on the subject of national
education than to their political opinions.
Mr. DARBY said that he knew Mr. Woodward to
be an excellent and able clergyman, and it would be very
hard indeed if such a clergyman was not to receive pre-
ferment in the Church, because he might have held cer-
tain opinions on the subject of national education. But
whether the clergy had or had not objections to the
system of national education, he thought now that the
system was adopted they would act more wisely in visit-
ing the schools and superintending them, than in keep-
ing aloof altogether. (Hear, hear.) He thought they
ought to visit the schools and improve them as much as
possible. He thought it would not be wise to lay down
any rule on the subject of preferment in the Church.
Mr. SHEIL said that they did not call on the Right
lion. Gentieman to lay down any rule, but they coin
plained that wherever the rule was, the practice of the
Government in Ireland was contrary to the policy which
the Right Hon. Gentleman had professed in that House.
He said that they had determined to give the system of
national education their cordial support ; but how had
the Ministry given it their cordial support ? He denied
that in the policy which they adopted in Ireland they
had given a cordial support' to their own system. He
did not mean to say that they were not sincere in their
intention of supporting that system. It was to be re-
marked that they had excluded from preferment all those
who were favourable to the system of national education.
He did not mean to say that they should lay down any
rule, but he thought that some of those who supported
the system of national education should be promoted.
Who had they promoted ? They had promoted Dr.
O'Brien, Dr. Daly, Mr. Newman, and Mr. M'Ginnis,
whose hostility to the system was openly avowed and
undisguised. By promoting such men they counteracted
their own objects.—(Hear.) They did no service to the
Church by such a policy ; for they placed it in opposi-
sition to the people.—(Hear, hear.) It became odious
to the people.—( Hear, hear.) They opposed a phalanx
of hostile persons to the best measure of education that
could be devised for Ireland. They arrayed an oppo-
sition to a useful measure. The Right Hon. Gentleman
said that he did not control Lord De Grey in his appoint-
ments. It was said that the Irish Church was a per-
quisite of the Lord Lieutenant's. It was most extraor-
dinary that the Irish Secretary had no control over the
appointments in the Irish Church, nor had the Home
Secretary. It was all in the hands of the Lord Lieu-
tenant. He (Mr. Sheil) denied that this was merely a
political question—it was a religious question, a moral
question. From the Education Board would flow great
public usefulness, morality, charity, and Christian love.
If so. the question was not a political question ; it was a
religious and moral question, and they were acting in an
imprudent and impolitic manner in not giving some pre-
ferment to clergymen who supported the system of na-
tional education, who had equal merits with those whom
they preferred, and who were opposed to the system.
The Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, had declared
in that House, and had surprised the House, and raised
great indignation in Ireland, when he said that the con-
duct of Protestant clergymen had been most factious in
ther opposition to that system.
Lord ELIOT signified dissent. •

Mr. SHElL—the Noble Lord had used the word
factious, and he was for months afterwards made the
:subject of attack in the Evening Mail. He would show
that the Noble Lord had used the word, and he was sur-
'prised that the Noble Lord's memory was so defective
on this point. Perhaps it was an unhappy expression,
but the Noble Lord had made use of it. It was not his
intention to reproach the Government, but surely they
ought to act in conformity with the opinions they had
avowed themselves. They had preferred thirty-nine
individuals, only two of whom were in favour of the na-
tional system of education. But it was a misfortune that

the intentions of Government were always counteracted
by the officials in Dublin. In the late publication of
Edmund Burke's letters, that distinguished individual
said that, that the best intentions of Government were
counteracted by persons in office in Ireland. Those
who were selected for preferment in the Church would
seem to have been selected on account of their hostility
to this very system, which had been so warmly supported
by the Right Hon. Gentleman. At this period of the
session, he did not wish they should part excepting in
good humour. He lamented that there should be defects
which disfigured, if they did not entirely destroy, the
benefit of this measure, which he knew was well meant.
Lord ELIOT explained. He said that he had no
recollection of using the word factious, attributed to
him by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He had said tha
the Protestant clergymen were opposed to the measure,
but that they were actuated by conscientious motives ;
and he was sure if he had used the word factious he would
have been called on to explain by some of his Right lion.
Friends behind him. He had the most distinct recol-
lection that he spoke with the utmost respect of the
Protestant clergy. As to himself, he did not think that
his sincerity could be doubted, and he was sure that
his Noble Friend, Lord De Grey, was actuated by the
purest motives in the appointments which he had made.
He had not allowed any private feelings to influence
him, nor was he actuated by any family influence.—
(Ironical cheers.) Ile knew by that cheer that Hon.
Gentlemen alluded to Dr. Daly, who, it was said, had
been appointed because his brother had been a Member
for a county, and possessed considerable influence. But
they had been influenced in appointing Dr. Daly on the
ground of his knowledge, and his reputation as a dis-
tinguished preacher.—(lronical cheers.) He was sure
that the Protestant clergy were actuated by the most
conscientious feelings.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said that he never heard of
Dr. Daly having possessed any qualifications for his ap-
pointment to a bishopric, comprising nearly two popu►
bus counties, except the language quoted by his Hon.
Friend, and that he was the rector of Powerscourt,
where a site was refused by Lord Powerscourt's mother
for the building of a Roman Catholic church. He had
also heard from a respectable person, on whom he could
rely, and whose name be was ready to give to any Hon.
Gentleman who asked for it, thaton one occasion last year
in Lismore he told his congregation to avoid all in-
tercourse with Roman Catholics, and those who
were rich of them should not employ Roman Ca-
tholic servants.—(Hear, hear.) The Cork Examiner
of the 25th of July, in alluding to the subject,
said that one clergyman dissented from the doctrines
promulgated by his Bishop, and that several of the con-
gregation had left the church. He could understand
why such a person as Dr. O'Brien, who was a man of
great learning and acquirements, was appointed to a
bishopric, but, in the name of common sense, what had
Dr. Daly to do with learning or literature ? He never
heard of his producing any work? Indeed he was at one
time editor of a religious paper. They did not want the
Right Hon. Baronet to adopt any rule ; all they wished
was that the practice of the Government would not con-
tradict their own declaration, and that they should ap-
point men who, like the late lamented Dr. Sandes,
whom he was proud to call his friend, knew how to com-
bine zeal for their own religious dogmas with that charity
which was above all other virtues, and who would do
honour to the faith they professed by promoting good
feelings amongst all.—(Hear, hear.)
Captain BERNAL replied—He did not want the
Right Hon. Gentleman to adopt a rule, he only wished
that he would not adopt the rule of appointing those
who were opposed to the system of national education.
But, however, the Right lion. Gentleman seemed to be
a promising convert to Whig principles, and he hoped
he would go on and prosper.
The motion was then withdrawn
ANATOMY ACT.

Mr. BORTIIWICK wished to know whether the
Right Hon. Gentleman would have any objection that
the Bill he wished to introduce might be printed.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that it was the intention of
the Government to take the subject into their considera-
tion during the recess.
Mr. BORTHWICK was satisfied to leave the subject
in the hands of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he knew
the subject would be much better treated in his hands
than it possibly could in his (Mr. Borthwick's).
The other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at Half-past Eight o'clock.

FATAL ACCIDENT.-WORCESTER, AUGUST 5.-

I write in haste, as the post is just leaving, to say that, at
seven o'clock this evening, twelve of the navigators employed
in our Severn improvement were drowned, while crossing the
water, at the works, a mile below Worcester. They rushed
into a flat-bottomed fisherman's boat, and, when in the
middle of the stream, the boat upset. One body only has,
as yet, been found.—From a Correspondent.
WELSH HERRING FISHERY.—The herring fishery
has commenced at Dinas this week, although the take
on the commencement is not large ; but it argues well
for a plentiful fishery, the herrings taken being large and
very fat.— Welshman.

'WELSH SALMON FISHERY.—The Salmon fishery
is very successful here this season ; there was not such
a plentiful supply of salmon taken in the recollection of
the present fishermen. Prices at present, Salmon 4d.
per lb., Sewin, M.—Welshman. ,
Low FARES ON RAILWAYS.—We understand that
the third-class-passengers on the Brandling Junction Rail-
way are carried at less than one halfpenny per
way Record.