The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-27 00:00:00

TIRE SUN,

cr which they felt the courts of law did not enable them
to enforce in any other manner. If that was so, ho vee-
tured to say if the Attorney-General had permitted his
name to he used for the purpose described he would
have grossly failed in his duty to tha Crown—he would
have betrayed the interests of the public, and would have
deserved the severest censure of the 1-louse of Commons.
Another ground of objection had been put forward by
the Hon. and Galleut Member opposite as repected the
allusion to the vote which the House had come to on
the question. It had been truly said that the Commis-
sioners of Woods and Forests, being trustees for the
public, ought to be responsible for the exercise of their
powers. He he!d this to be a point of the greatest im-
portance. The Commissioners of Woods and Forests
were Ministers of the Crown, appointed for the ma-
nagement of the Crown revenues for the benefit of the
public. Now, without reference to private rights, he
held as regarded the public, though they were strictly
accountable, they were not iu his opinion account-
able in any other place than Parliament.—(Hear,
hear.) It would be a most dangerous innovation
if they were to allow the Court of Chancery to call such
public officers to account for the manner in which they
performed their duties, instead of bolding them respon-
sible to Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) As an illustration
of the danger of such a proceeding, he might refer to
an Act of that statesman whose loss they all deplored.
About six years ago the late Sir Robert Peel admitted
by Order in Council foreign corn free of duty, though
an Act of Parliament wits iu existence at the time
imposing a duty. What would have been more
easy than for a collection of landlords to have called
on the Attorney-General--not for the public interest,
but their own—to file an information in the Court of
Chancery to rescind that order? The cases ap-
peared to him to be analcgous. If, with respect to
public fines and rents, they were to allow the At-
torne)-General or private individuals to call the Com-
missioners of Woods and Forests to account in the
Court of Chancery, they would be establishing a most
dangerous innovation, which would be most injurious to
the best interests of the country. Of late years the
courts of law had manifested a strong desire to inter-
fere with the rights and privileges of that House.—
(Hear, bear.) That such a disposition existed in the
courts of law was notorious. In fact, a favourite adage
in Westminster Hall was, that every judge ought to ex-
tend his jurisdiction. Now, if they had an Attorney-
General who should hold public officers accountable to
the Court of Chancery the most serious results would
follow.—(Hear, hear.) It was with reference to such
a consideration that he had alluded to the vote of the
House as a❑ important element in this case. A
majority of the House had confirmed the proceedings of
the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, and so far
as the information complained of the Commissioners, as
trustees of the public, he considered it as an appeal
from the decision of that House, as to the conduct of
public officers, to the High Court of Chancery.—
(Hear, hear.) Ho did think that, as Attorney-Gene-
ral, he would have grossly neglected his duty if he had
sanctioned such a proceeding. These were the grounds
upon which he had acted. If he bad consulted his own
convenience, nothing would have been easier fer him
than to have considered the question a mere matter of
farm, and have given the use of his signature. His doing
so would not have deprived him of the office which ho
had the honour to hold, nor would it have interfered
with his advancement in his profession; but he must
have been blind not to have seen that by taking the other
course,—knowing the great influence of the press, which
took an opposite view—he would have to sustain a vast
amount of vituperation and blame.—(Hear, hear.) He
had adopted the course he had done because he firmly
and sincerely believed it to be the best; and so long as
he filled the office which he had the honour to hold, he
would undertake to say that as far as he could he would
discharge its duties on his own responsibility, with-
out throwing any part on the shoulders of others;
and that he would always endeavour to do tempe-
rately, but fearlessly, that which he considered to be his
duty.—(Cheers.)

un3or them, still he could not refuse to admit that it was
a recognition of the protection to which the soldier
should always 'look up (Hear, hear) and
soldiers were none the worse Cu. haring a bles:iing
upon them.—(Hear, hear.) With reference to the
prayer the Hon. Member had read, he saw nothing in
it that either could be found fault with, or no expression
in it that could be improved.—(llear.) T:ie chaplain of
the garrison of Dublin, from whom that prayer was
stated to have emanated, no doubt expressed the inte-
rest which he felt fur the soldiers over whom he had
pastoral charge sincerely and cordially ; and he believed
these was no act which attracted so much the respect
of the soldiers of the regiment, or one with which so
little fault had been found, either by the public press or
by any individual, complaining of a public department,
as the observance of a religious ceremony at the pre-
sentation of new colours.—(Hear.) It was established
by; no order or regulation of the army, that he was
aware of. It was a custom that had come down from
the earliest times. It was one which might be dispensed
with at the pleasure of the army or the wish of that
House ; but it was one which he saw no grounds to in-
terfere with. Therefore, with all respect for the reli-
gious feelings and conscientious opinions of the various
classes of the country, he must say he had never be-
fore beard it stated that such a proceeding—whilst he
knew it to be acceptable to the army at large—was at
all offen,ive to the religious feelings of the public.
Captain BOLDERO thought that the prayer com-
plained of by the Hon. Member did honour to the clergy-
man. From the manner of the Hon. Member for Man-
chester a stranger would imagine that he was as well
acquainted with matters pertaining to the army as he
was with looms and spinning jennies.—(Hear hear.)
To do away with the practice would be considered as a
gross insult to the army.,
The vote was then agreed to; as also were the votes-
-54,9161. charges and expenses of general staff officers;
and,

46,6841. charges and allowances for the officers of the
several public military departments.
The following votes were also agreed to:-
8,8951., being part of the charge for the Royal Military
College.
9,657/. for the Royal Military Asylum.
On the vote of 41,000/., part of the charge of the
volunteer corps,
Mr. H. BERKELES moved, pursuant to notice, the
rejection of this vote. He looked upon it as a most un-
constitutional force—it was only a mummery of noble
war—a playboy of the nobility. He had no doubt he
should be strenuously opposed, as there were a troop
—if not a whole squadron—of yeomanry officers in
that House. He approachiid the subject with
no hostility whatever—(Hear, hear)—to the regular
army—(Laughter.) He contended that the yeomanry
had never adequately fulfilled the duties for which they
were originally constituted. He contended that no
armed force could be of utility unless it was strictly
amenable to discipline, and unless it was amenable to
the Government and authority. It was because the yeo-
manry had of late shown itself disorderly sad disobedient
that he had come to the conclusion that they were no
longer fit to be entrusted with the preservation of the
public peace. He would refer to the proceedings in
which they had been engaged for the last thirty years.—
(Oh, and great laughter.) He would show that they
were in the pernicious habit of reasoning upon the
orders they received instead of carrying them out. He
would remind the House of the occasion of the corona-
tion of George IV. The Queen had just arrived from
the continent, and had expressed her intention of taking
her place in the ceremony. The Life Guards were
called out, as great rioting was apprehended, and so
also were the yeomanry, who, after their kind, pro-
ceeded to reason upon those orders, and preserved the
peace by cheering for the Queen and Alderman Wood.
He admitted that no loss of life took place, the mob con•
tenting themselves with smashing the windows of those
who who were supposed to be opposed to the Queen. He
would now remind the House of another case of insubor-
dination on the part of the yeomanry—the Manchester
massacre of 1819 at Peterloo. The yeomanry were
called on to disperse an unarmed mob, and brutally slew
men, women, and children. Both these were cases of
gross insubordination. He came next to the Swing riots.
The yeomanry were called out to assist the civil power,
but they would not come.—[An Honourable Member—
" Where?"] It was a general complaint throughout
the country. The lord-lieutenants reported in many
parts of the west of England the total inefficiency of the
yeomanry corps. In 1838 he found that Lord Mel-
bourn reduced the yeomanry corps, and thereby gave
great umbrage to that body. The yeomanry in those
riots behaved in the worst possible manner, having been
inefficient, disorderly, and undisciplined. The opinion of
all lord-lieutenants was that yeomanry were unfit for the
purposes of police; a couple of guns and a regiment of
soldiers could be taken from London to Leicester before
a body of local yeomanry could be got together. It took
48 hours to concentrate a body of yeomanry on any
given point of a county; and the lord-lieutenant of
Gloucester had said that he could take the staff of his
own militia regiment to any part of that county in wag-
gons several hours before he could get together the
local yeomanry. He would show what good the
yeomanry were on an emergency. All persons remem-
bered the Bristol riots.—(Hear, and laughter.) Well,
Bristol stood in two counties which abounded in yec-
manry, well-dressed and moustachiod gentlemen, but
that town was three days in the hands of a lawless
mob, and the yeomanry were no more good than so many
old apple-women. In the course of the riots ten Somer-
set yeomen marched into Bristol, but they had to be
locked up by the mayor in the riding-school, for fear
the mob would do them any harm—(Laughter.) This
was stated in the Bristol Gazette of 9th of May last;
that was his authority. So much for the gallant corps
of Somerset yeomen—so much for Somersetahire. But
what aid had Bristol from the heroes of Gloucestershire?
Captain Codrington certainly appealed at the head of
the Doddingtou and Marshfield troop of yeomen; but
he only marched into Bristol at the request of the ma-
gistrates, but he marched out again to the light of the
incendiary tires. Yet this was the force which the people
of Bristol was compelled to pay for; but they could not
be compelled to respect them or to confide in their
prowess, when, as old John Dryden said, the yeomen
were—

" Mou.ths without arms maintained at vast expense,

.
In peace a charge, in war a weak defence.
Stout once a year Sou march, a blustering band,
And ever but in time of need at hand."
It might be said they could mot find a magistrate; and
he was perfectly aware a magistrate could not be
found; but it must be remembered that this was in the
time of the old corporation; and it was laid down by the
judges of the land and the president of the court-
martial, that soldiers might act for the protec-
tion of life and property without a magistrate. One
more instance of yeomanry valour, obedience, and mili-
tary qualification. It was a rare instance in which tho
yeomanry was under fire. This was in Glamorgan-
shire, and his authority was Mr. Franklin, a magis-
trate at Bridgend, in that county. It was in the time
of the Merthyr riots, in 1831, which that geetleman had
hoped were wholly forgotten—(Laughter)—as they did
no credit to any party. A whole regiment of yeomanry,
consisting of three divisions, were ordered to assemble
and march on Merthyr. The western division, com-
manded by an old Peninsular officer, never reached
Merthyr, having been disarmed in a bloodless encounter
with the mob. The centre division marched to Merthyr
where it found the eastern division. A party was
ordered to escort some powder to Brecon, and about two
miles from the town they encountered numbers of people
who obstructed the road, and threatened to attack them
if they did not retire. After some delay the major in
command gave the word " threes about, march—retire,"
which they did accordingly. The mob then fired on
them, and the march became a run.—(Laughter.) The
writer said he attempted to cut down some of the pri-
soners, but his sword being blunt—(Bursts of laughter)
—he was thrown back on the crupper of his horse, and
did not recover his seat until he reached the barracks.
When it was reflected that the yeomanry jacket scarcely
reached down to the os sacrum, it could scarcely be said
they turned tail.—(Laughter.) Mr. F. concluded his
letter by saying that was the consequence of making bad
farmers worse soldiers.—(Laughter.) Hunianity for-
bade the employment of such a force, as the remits of
excitement on the part of an infuriated mob could not be
calculated on such a force. If Newport had been de-
fended by this-regiment of yeomen, and not by half a
company of the 45th, what would have become of it?—
(Hear, hear.) So much for the past; but for the future,
what? The yeomanry declared that if certain measures
were not carried they would tight—they would not draw
their swords except for their own interests 'I his
was stated at public meetings—at the great Crown
and Anchor meeting, for instance, in the Strand. At
York again they had Mr. Ferrand flinging up the
hatchet. What would they say of a cavalry officer who
should say what mob his regiment should charge and
what it should not? Would they not call that insubor-
dination? The Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer
had said, in a late debate, thatall this ought to be treated
with contempt—that the contemptibility of the threatener
excused the threat. But they had to deal now with the
people's purse; and to pay those who resorted to such
threats, and maintained a sort of private Horse Guards
of their own, would be a measure of which he appre-
hended
they would disapprove. The Right Hon. Secre-
tary of War might tell him that some force was neces-
sary to support the military. Then increase the civil
force, and instead of maintaining a rabble of 300 or 400
yeomanry, who were never found when wanted, and
when found were of no use, substitute a mounted police,
with well-trained men, with well-broken horses. The
magistrates and the people at large would have infinitely
more confidence in such a body of men than in three or
four times the number of yeomen.—(Hear.) One word
on the subject of discipline. All cavalry officers of ex-
perience preferred being without raw recruits, who had
been entrusted with arms in their hands; and what could
yeomanry cavalry be but raw recruits? Distinguished
infantry officers were of the same opinion. Ho had read
an account of a speech delivered by the Hon. and Gal-
lant Member for Frome' in returning thanks for the
army, in which he said he trusted the army would not
be reduced in number, for a soldier wai not made in a
day.—(Hear.) What could a rabble do who met only
once a year to go through what was called a drill ?
Cavalry officers had their portfolios crammed with cari-
caturesn of yeomanry at drill. He had shown that, for a
lo
n; series of years, the yeomanry had been insubordi-
nate and useless, and that at the present moment they
had added the additional characteristic of being disobe-
suffimcri.enFt.cai,sieAwuaLs made out theseutfor
client and dangerous.
rejectingg rounds
this h e
vote.th oght a
O said he would not have proposed
the vote had he not felt convinced that the yeomanry
corps was a good and a constitutional force. From 1831
Gentleman
yeomanry corps had be-
to the present day, the Ho Gentlen had only quoted
three instances in which t
bayed otherwise than thexyprnil;
ht have been expected.
hadali
than his 7
Hon. er'of the habits of the
yeomanry force
Thaler-Secretary of' Statee fornd six
'havyienagrq, and he
held the
ander-in-Chief the
knew from the report of the Comm

LONDON, SATURDAY

st.tte of efficiency of the various corps; and he knew,
also, that no deficiency in discipline was in any case
passed over. His Hon. Friend had stated that Lord
Melbourne, feeling the insufficiency of the force, made
great reductions in it. But his lion. Ftiend must per-
mit him to say, that Lord Melbourne, while Secretary
of State, increased instead of diminished it. Reductions
certainly tcok place in 1837 and 1838, but they were
made entirely ou financial considerations. Ile main-
tained that the character of the yeomanry was not to
be ak.ailsd on the ground of honour and zeal. As to the
absurd and wild sentiments uttered at the Crown and
Anchor, no one could for a moment suppose that they
expressed in the smallest degree the feelings of the yeo-
manry.—(Hear, hear.) As to what hal taken place in
the north of England, he was quite certain that if the
yeomanry should be called on they would do their duty
as faithfully as they had hitherto discharged it. The
Hon. Member had qaoted instances in which the yeo-
manry hal failed to do their duty; but he knew a case
which happened at Stirling, in which, had it not been for
the assistance of the yeomanry cavalry, a great loss of
property and life would have ensued; and their services
were remembered with gratitude to this day by the in-
habitants. Similar services had been rendered in times
of disturbance in other parts of the country. It was not
that the force was always called into active service
agsinst mobs, but it was the knowledge that yeomanry
corps were in reserve to protect the locality to which
they belonged, which enabled them to avail themselves
more effectually of those other means of defence.—(Hear,
hear.) The vote had been from year to year put upon a
very reduced scale, and he could state from his own
knowledge, derived from the report of officers who had
inspected them, that at this moment, when they were
accused of leaving the country in an almost defenceless
state, if they did away with the yeomanry force they
would do away with a force which contributed mainly to
the safety and protection of the country, and at a trifling
cost, which this House had hitherto voted, and he hoped
would still continue to vote.

Colonel REID entertained an opinion diametrically
opposed to that of the Hon. Member for Bristol. The
Hon. Member complained of the incapacity, the inade-
quacy, and insubordination of the yeomanry troops;
while he, on the contrary, was of opinion that they were
a corps of immense value, both physical and moral, and
eminently qualified to perform all the duties which could
possibly be imposed on them.—(Hear, hear.) This was
no mere casual or theoretical opinion, but one founded
on experience and personal observation. When he had
the honour of commanding one of the regiments of the
household brigade, he was sent to inspect some
troops in Hants, commanded by the Right Hon. Gentle-
man (the Speaker), under whose able command they all
were in that House.—(Hear, hear.) He saw the Right
Hon. Gentleman presenting a most soldierlike appear-
ance and bearing, and he saw him conduct his regiment
through a variety of well-selected movements, so prac-
tically useful, especially one of them, that he had never
bad a field day with his own regiment since without
adopting it. He left the field with the conviction that
the corps whose evolutions he had witnessed was emi-
nently fit for any duty which it might be called oa to
discharge, and he would stake his reputation as a sol-
dier, that a body of such men would quickly rout and
disperse a mob of thirty times their number. With
regard to the expense, he considered it the most econo-
mical description of force which could be employed:
13,500 men cost the country, if not called out, 45,0001.
per annum, and, if called out, 81,0001. What was the
cost of the regular cavalry? A regiment of 400 men had
only 271 horses, out of which there were not more than
250 really efficient. The cost 'of this was 17,777/. per
annum. The cost of 1,140 men in the regular cavalry
was more than 13,500 yeomanry, and it must be recol-
lected that these 13,500 men were liable to be called out
at any hour. During the Chartist riots the Bucks Yeo-
manry were called out to replace the regular troops sta-
tioned at Windsor and the neighbourhood, and that regi-
ment, to the number of 600 men, assembled, he had,been
informed, in less than four hours, and not more than 20
men were absent. There might be inefficient corps, but
they ought to be disbanded. This was, however, a course
which ought to be excercised with very great caution
and discrimination—a little more than had been shown
by the Whigs. He would not deal in general charges.
lie was sent on one occasion into Berks to in-
spect some corps of yeomanry. He inspected
three corps. Two portions of the yeomanry
troops were in a state of great efficiency, and he reported
accordingly to the Commander-in-Chief. The third
corps was not in a state of efficiency. The three corps
were, however, disbanded. The Hon. Member for
Gloucestershire inquired the reason, and was informed that
it was in consequence of the unfavourable report of the
inspecting officer. Now, as the inspecting officer's report
was confidential, therefore it was hardly fair, after
the report he had himself made of the efficiency of two
of the corps of yeomanry, to disband all three of the
corps on a confidential report. This was a specimen of
the judgment exercised by Government in dealing with
the yeomanry force. He believed the country gentlemen
and yeomanry constituted the moat respectable portions
of the community, and he did not think their characters
would suffer by any calumnies that might be directed
against them. Because a few persons used intemperate
language at public meetings, was it fair to implicate all
in the same censure? If occasion should arise he was
satisfied that no political considerations would shake
their feelings of loyalty, and prevent them from doing
their duty.

Col. CHATTERTON bore testimony to the efficiency
of the yeomanry force, of which he had inspected sixty-
three regiments.
Mr. OSBORNE complained that the officers of yeo-
manry corps went to balls and assemblies in uniforms
which were not sufficiently distinguished from those of
officers of the regular army. Officers who had been
serving abroad all their lives did not like on their return
to see yeomanry officers • in such uniforms, and called
captains and colonels.—(" Oh!") He wished to know
why the general order establishing a distinction between
the silver lace of the yeomanry and the gold lace of the
regular army had not been enforced?
Mr. MAULE was not aware that such an order had
been issued.

Mr. BASS said, that after thirty years' service in the
regiment of yeomanry to which he had the honour to
belong, his experience led him to the conclusion that
the yeomanry corps did not deserve the opprobrium
which had been cast upon them by the Hon. Gentleman.
—(Hear, hear.) The instances to which the Hon.
Gentleman had referred were, he thought, more dis-
paraging to her Majesty's troops than to those corps.
—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had also said
there was great delay in getting the men together, but
it had happened to him (Mr. Bass) to be called
out on many occasions, and he had known his regiment
summoned at seven o'clock in the evening, and to have
marched into Derby before eleven o'clock the same night
—(hear, hear)—and they had afterwards the satisfac-
tion of receiving the thanks of the magistrates for their
services. In 1842, when at a great distance from home,
he had been ordered to attend in his county, and his re-
giment, which consisted principally of farmers to the
number of 600 men, cheerfully left their own labours,
though it was in the middle of harvest-time, and served
for three weeks.—(Hear.) The only advantage he had
ever had from belonging to a yeomanry corps was to
ininh°inseYli-re.(lllfahuigsh)c—orpfosrhe
n5:O-hundredth poarwtnof the opprobrium the Hon.
Gentleman had lavished upon the yeomanry in general,
he (Mr. Bass) should feel it a disgrace to belong to it,
had never received Is. pay
but it did not deserve that opprobrium, and he hoped
that until he had a son ready to succeed him he should
spend
de-
served el
be allowed to remain in it.

Mr. HUME objected to the yeomanry force, because
from their short service they had not time to acquire
He believed that twenty-two troops of forty
habits of steadiness when they came into collision with
the people.
men each, of regular cavalry, would do more to preserve
the peace of the country than all the yeomanry; and, in-
deed, if free trade continued, as he hoped it would, far-
mers and their sons would have something else to do
than to belong to these corps', and having a spree when
they were called out.--(A. laugh.)
Mr. F. MAULE, in explanation, said that the yeo-
manry when they were on permanent duty received
pay, and in that character became subject to the Mutiny
Act.

Mr. CLIVE bore testimony
to the
t tb
yeomanry corps with which he was connected.
Mr. EDWARDS referred
e serviceseffici efficiency chy
so ofregi-
ment in preserving the peace of the town of Halifax in
1842_, and said that theythe
had received the thanks of the
s
county. The moral effect of 150
men in that district was s
Mr. NE W DEG ATE trusted untlitcoietnakt
etoitdiins atormcodnissiadffeercattiioonn:
the Committee would scorn and as to the trumpery matter of expense, he thought
atwhentahbeHt ootn.
Gentleman (Mr. H. Berkeley) should again be about
mm
aa
dk
ee
tseo.
nuing ph,t),pu la
accompanied,
r a proposition
a s a
it
was,s that wyahai ch
attackh had
the Protectionist Members, he would not select that (the
Protectionist) side of the House to make it.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. BERKELEY believed the Hon. Member (Mr.
Newdegate) commanded a force somewhere in the neigh-
bourhood of Uxbridge.
Mr. NEW DEGATE— I do not.
Mr. H. BERKELEY—At all events, the Hon. Mem-
ber belonged to-that distinguished corps which was com-
monly known in the country by the name of the
" mournful and dangerous."—(Great laughter.) He had
been told of some half-dozen of them marching through
Uxbridge with umbrellas over their heads.—(Renewed
laughter.) As regarded his (Mr. 11. Berkeley's) select-
ing his seat on the Opposition side of the House, that,
ho presumed, depended upon his own feelings, without
the necessity of consulting the Hon. Gentleman.—
(Hear, hear.) But if the Hon. Gentleman wished to
know why he preferred addressing the House from those
benches rather than from the other side, which he should
very much prefer, he begged to say that from having a
physical infirmity he found it convenient to rest upon
the table while speaking.—(Hear, hear.) With respect
to the magistracy of Bristol, he hoped the present gen-
tlemen who held the Commission in that city would
not be confounded with the past. The town of Bristol
was now as perfectly safe from the threats of an. ill-dis-
posed mob as it would be from an ill-disposed yeomanry.
Mr. HENLEY observed, that as the lion. Gentleman
bad chosen by inference to cast an imputation against
a set of what he called unreformed magistrates, it would
have been but common justice if he had stated that those
gentlemen were brought to trial in the county of Berks
and acquitted.
Mr. NEWDEG ATE said that it was the last thing
he should have thought of to make any observation as
to which side of the House it might be convenient fur
the Hon. Gentleman to address the Committee, but he
could not help feeling, that as the Hon. Gentleman had
indulged in language not highly complimentary to those
around him, be (Mr. Newdegate)might be excused for
having adverted to the circumstanc. As to the
" mournful and dangerous troop_( Lou 3 laughter)—he
would not stop to inquire iu what purlieus of Uxbridge
the Hon. Gentleman had:picked:up that naine.—(Div:de.)
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—