The Sun.
London, England, 1857-12-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMEAT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at three o'clock.

BANK ISSUES INDEMNITY BILL.

This bill was brought up from the Commons ;nd read
a first time.

Earl GREY said he understood that only one discus-
sion was to be taken on this subject, and a 3 the bill was
to be read a second time to-morrow, and a third time on
Friday, it would be very convenient if the noble earl
would fix a precise day fir the debate.
Earl GRANVILLE said either day would he conve-
nient for the Government. If it would suit those noble
lords who were absent he would take the discussion on
Friday.
The Earl of EGLINTON said it was impossible for
him to say whether that day would suit peers on his side
of the house.
It was ultimately agreed that the discussion should be
taken on Friday.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock.
SIR HENRY HAVELOCK.
Mr. FITZROY brought up the report on the message
from her Majesty conferring a pension of 1,0001. a-year
for life on Sir Henry Havelock.
Colonel NORTH considered the Government should
extend this pension to General Havelock's son. Cap-
tain Havelock had much distinguished himself during
this revolt. He had gone through all the battles in
which his father had been engaged, and had obtained
the Victoria Cross for his valour in the field. This was
a case calling loudly for a departure from the usual rule
followed in granting such pensions. In the case of
peerages the pensions usually extended to two genera-
tions, and he hoped that the peculiar circumstances of
Captain Havelock would he considered by the Govern-
ment, and provision made that the pensio❑ now awarded
to his distinguished and gallant father should descend to
his son.
Mr. BAGWELL concurred in the suggestions just
made, and hoped the Government would extend the
pension to his son's life.
Mr. KINNAIRD had much pleasure in seconding
the suggestion now made. He regretted that yesterday
so little allusion was made to the distinguished services
of two brothers•--the Lawrences. (Hear, hear.) One
had gone where honours were of no avail, but he thought
it was the duty of a grateful country to raise a Inonuntext
to the memory of the late Sir 11. Lawrence. (Hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE :.aid he partook of the sympathy,
admiration, and gratitude that pervaded all classes of
her Majesty's subjects relative to the conduct of our
army in India, but at the same time be ventured to
suggest the inexpediency of their endeavouring to put
a restraint on their feelings in the matter. (Hear, hear.)
Nothing was more imprudent than that it should be let,
to the Crown and the Executive Government the func
tion of rewarding distinguished services without being
anticipated by members of the house. He asked the
house to reco►lect how much it took from the acts of
grace when taken by the Government if first suggesten
by individual members of Parliament, (Hear, bear.)
He fully admitted the duty of the house to call the
Executive Government to account if they wera in the
discharge of their rewards, but here was a case, he
humbly thought the Government should I e left a latitude
and discretion as to the time and opportunity of doing
what the Crown thought right.
Colonel NO RTH said he had not the slightest intention
in the remarks he had made in reflecting ou her Ma-
jesty's Government, but merely to support a suggestion
thrown out by an hon. member last night.
Sir M. FA.RQUHA.R considered Captain Havelock
was entitled to the consideration of the house, and he
hoped the Government would allow the pension to
descend with the title to him. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BALL also concurred in the remarks made by
previous speakers relative to the extension of the pension
from General Havelock to his son. _

Sir J. PAKINGTON complained of the absence of the
President of the Board of Control from the house when
the question of General Havelock's pension was to come
before it. He thought the remarks of the right hon. gen-
tleman the member for Oxford University were worthy of
consideration, but he expressed a hope that his observa-
tions would not have a tendency to check on the part of
hon. members those expressions of feeling which did
honour to the house with regard to the great services per-
formed in India as did honour to the officers who performed
them. It gave to the army the most legitimate assurance
that their services were esteemed by a grateful country
by declarations in that house on the part of the represen-
tatives of the country. (Hear.) He felt convinced that
the discussion of last night and to-day would be received
in India with feelings of gratitude and pride, and would be
held by those distinguished men as one of their highest
rewards for the services they rendered. Ho quite con-
curred with what had fallen from hon. members in refer-
ence to the continuation of the pension to General Have-
lock's son. (Hear, bear.) He wished now to put a ques-
tion to the President of the Board of Control relative to
the "Cline Fund." In 1765 the great Lord Clive, on re-
ceiving a legacy from Meer Jaffier of 70,0001., in a noble
spirit generously paid the same into the Calcutta treasury.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY called the right lion baronet to
order. He could not, in considering the Message in refer-
ence to General Havelock's pension, introduce a different
subject.
The SPEAKER ruled that the right hon. baronet was
out of order.
Sir J. PAKINGTON considered that in supply he was
entitled to pursue the course he was adopting when inter-
rupted.
The SPEAKER reminded the right hon. baronet that
the house was not in supply, according to the ordinary
rules of the house.
Mr. V. SMITH complained of the manner in which the
right hon. baronet had alluded to his temporary absence
from the house, especiallyar he had bean engaged waiting for
an Indian telegram. He remarked on the impropriety of
hon. members bringing forward charges of improper
patronage on the part of the Court of Directors, without
entering into particulars. As the right hon. baronet was
out of order, he would not proceed further than to read
the telegram. (The right hon. gentleman then road
the telegram, which will be found in another part of our
impression.)
After some remarks from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, the
message was read a second time and agreed to, and a bill
was ordered to be introduced
PPL Y accordingly.
SU . _

Mr. FITZROY brought up the report of supply.
Sir J. I'd ECI NGTON said he hoped he was now in
order to put the question he intended to have done when
he was called to order; With regard to the " Clive fund,"
he read a notice of the question on Monday, but if the
right hon. gentleman wished it he would give further time.
Peculiar interest was now felt with reference to the fund,
now that a fund was being raised for the relief of the
sufferers by the mutiny in India. In 1765, I, nod Clive
paid into the Calcutta treasury a legacy of 70,000/., the
interest of which was to be devoted to the relict of officers
and soldiers disabled in India, and the wives and families
of Europeans who might die in the company's services. He
wished to be informed of the present state and condition of
the fund. He wished to bo informed as a piece of infor-
illation he had seen in the newspapers, viz., with regard
to the patronage of the Court of Directors for 1858. He
then found it stated that 110 infantry cadets wero to be
sent in 1858 to the Bengal Native army, and that a con-
siderable number of cavalry cadets were also to be sent
out for the same year, and he wished to know the state
and condition of that army. He balieved that 46 native
regiments had mutinied, and 2 been disbanded. Assum-
ing the to be the case, he wished to know what had be-
come of the 1,100 officers belonging to them. Deducting a
proportion for deaths, and those holding civil offices, he
thought there must be between 600 and 700 officers wholly
unemployed. He put it to the hon. gentleman, if, under
the circumst,nces, the present time was a fitting period
for exercising such au amount of patronage.
Mr. V. SMITH said he was unable thn to answer the
question relative to the " Clive Fund." With regard to
the second question, he gave to the Earl of Clarendon yes-
terday the particulars, to enable him to give an answer to
a question put in the other house by the Earl of Ellen-
borough. He had not, therefore, the paper with him, but
he would state that he was afraid the right hon. baronet
had not given a correct estimate of the amount of officers
lost. The appointment of cadets rested with the Court of
Directors, subject to the Board of Control ; but it was a
matter in which they rarely if ever interfered. The num-
ber of cadets appointed for 1858 was not sufficient to sup-
ply the vacancies that existed. It must not be considered
that, when they spoke of disbanding native troops, the
Indian Government intended to govern India without na-
tive troops, and although the estimate of the Court of Direc-
tors (lid not amount to much more than one-half of the
native troops, formerly the number of cadets appointed
would not be too many to supply the loss. It should also
be remembered that the officers unemployed referred to
were of a higher grade than cadets. The appointments
would not be made for the sake of patronage merely, but
to meet the requirements of the army. The officers now
out of employment it was proposed to use in officering tho
cavalry about to bo raised in this country.
Sir J. PAKINGTON asked the number of troops that
had mutinied and been disbanded.
Mr. V. SMITH said he was unable to give an answer.
Tho subject then dropped.
INDIA. _

In reply to questions from Sir H. Willoughby and Mr.
G. Hudson,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER complained
of the inconvenience arising from the putting of questions
in an irregular form. He said he hail no doubt the ap-
proximate estimates of the expenses that would be thrown
upon the Indian revenue by the troops sent out would be
laid on the table. The army estimates would be somewhat
increased by the same cause ; but the amount would
ultimately be borne by the East India Company, the in-
crease being in the nature of an advance. The Company
were not now in a position to repay such advances with
any great regularity; but he reminded the house that
India had never boon a burthen upon this country. The
revenue of India was now iu a crippled state, and it might
be necessary for the Company to apply to that house for
temporary assistance, bat not, he hoped, to a formidable
exttnt, as the Company's revenues would shortly be. suffi-
cient to meet a large part of the expense, and from its r?-
stored credit borrow what it required to supply its
e-
The motion was then agreed to.
ARMY AND loNi.f At
hTeEeSs
l
MiT 9. ites of
expenditure required for the army and navy for Ibor. WlLmove dNfAorVaEret EuSrlin
Agreed to.
BANK ISSUES I DITY,
NDENIBILL, .
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCEIbQUEB. moved
hethird reading of this bill.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY considered the house was
passing the bill on insufficient evidence.
Mr. VANCE hoped that in changes that might be made
in the currency the Government would not alter the
standard of value.
Mr. G. HUDSON approved of the course adopted by the
Government in issuing the letter in November, though he
regretted its issue had been so long delayed. It should
have been issued three weeks earlier. He had much
pleasure in supporting the bill, though he believed it did
not go far enough. He reviewed, the panic (f 1817 and
said he objecteu to the responsibility of issue being left to
the directors. It was the stringency of the issue that
mischief
fe
distrust,th e 1
al
la
now.and when The a epffaencitco I tliemcaeuaseend heretwas
to
hap-
pened securities were of no use from the impossibility of
their convertibility, 'rho Diu* Act had the effect of