The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-11 00:00:00

TIM SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, APRTL, 11, 18116,

a Bill this day six months, because by that time people's
heads viould have become cool, and they would be dis-
posed to dispense with the Bill altogether. He would
thereiore vote for the amendment of the Gallant Mem-
ber (Colonel Sibthorp).
Mr. BERNAL thought in no case should the Bill be
introduced into a borough, except with the sanction of
two-thirds of the inhabitants.
Mr. BROTHERTON supported the motion for going
into Committee. The Bill was only permissive, and the
rats sought to be levied was only a halfpenny in the
pound. The House was desirous of lessening taxation.
Could they better attain that object than by educating
and elevating the great body of the people? He
considered the measure would be a great boon to the
working classes, and be besides a means of diminishing
crime throughout the country. It remained for the
members (.f the Universities to oppose this Bill—(Hear)
—who objected to anybody being educated besides their
own class.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BUCK objected to any measure at the present
time that would throw increased taxation upon the
people, and of all persons in the world town councils
were the last who should be entrusted with carrying
such a Bill into operation.
Mr. WALTER said the Bill would be of little use if
parties were not allowed to take books home for perusal.
Mr. ANSTEY thought it was unfair to cast ridicule
upon the Bill because it provided libraries and not books
for the people. The main question was, whether the
introducer had made sufficient concessions to induce the
House to assent to it, and being of opinion that he had
done so, he would vote for going into Committee.
Lord J. MANNERS complained that libraries and
museums should be placed on a better footing than
churches, schools, and hospitals. •
Mr. EWART, in reply to questions, said it was
not his intention to apply the Bill to Scotland or
Ireland, but the insertion of a few words was all that
would be necessary if the House wished the benefit of
the measure to be extended to those countries. _

Mr. BRIGHT thought that the objectors to this Bill
deprecated that the people should learn, through the
instrumentality of this Bill, things which it would be
better for them not to learn. It had been said
that the agricultural classes would be excluded from
participating in the benefits of this Bill ; but
he would remind the House that those classes
were not called upon to contribute one farthing to the
support of the libraries sought to be instituted by this
Bill. The Bill was only permissive in its nature; he
thought, too, it was most excellent in its object, and he
would give its second reading his most cordial support.
Mr. ROUNDELL PALMER could not understand
why Scotland should have been excluded from the opera-
tion of such a Bill.—(Hear.) He had always under-
stood that the people of Scotland were as intelligent as
those of any other part of the United Kingdom—
(Laughter)—and he could not understand wby the
people of Glasgow Edinburgh, and Dumfries—(A
laugh)—and other places in Scotland should be excluded
from participating in a measure thought to be so laudable
and desirable by those who advocated it. He could only
say that he thought it was the wiser course to leave this
and all kindred objects to be supported by voluntary
rather than compulsory contributions.
Mr. W. J. FOX said in one point of view the Bill
would be exceedingly beneficial in that, under it,
structures would be built which would form a per-
manent depository for the books which might
be accumulated as a library for the people *in a
town. He had known cases where considerable num-
bers of books, which had been collected by the working
classes with the view to the formation of a library for
their mutual improvement, had in course of time been
squandered and lost for want of a place of public deposit.
Having such places of public deposit provided for there,
the people, so disposed, would be furnished with a greater
inducement for collecting books and objects for
libraries and museums than is at present supplied.
Mr. MUNTZ said, on the last occasion he voted
against the Bill, but as the Hon. Member for Dumfries
had made several concessions to meet the objections
which had been urged, he should now give it his support.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For going into Committee ... ... 99
For the amendment, ... ... 64
Majority ... ... —35
The House then went into Committee, Mr. BERNAL in
the chair

Mr. EWART moved the following amendment:—ln
clause I, line 13, after the words " it shall be lawful,"
to insert " for the town council of any municipal
borough (the population of which, according to the last
account taken thereof by authority of Parliament, ex-
ceeds ten thousand persons), for the purpose of determi-
ning whether this Act shall be adopted for such borough,to
convene a meeting of persons rated to the relief of the poor
within such borough, by notices signed by the mayor, or
five members at the least of the said council, and given
three clear days at least before such meeting by fixing
the same on or near the door of the town-hall of the said
borough, and on or near the door of the church or chapel
of every parish or cbapelry wholly or in part within the
said borough, stating the special purpose of such meet-
ing; and, if it shall be resolved at such meeting by two-
thirds of the voters there present, that this Act shall be
adopted, then it shall be lawful for such town-council."
After a short discussion, in which several Hon.
Members suggested that a notice should be published
also in the local newspapers,
Mr. B. DENISON observed that many ratepayers
never saw a newspaper, and he, therefore, thought that
the better plan would be to send each a printed circular.
Mr. WALPOLE suggested that the notice should be
posted upon the town-hall and every church and chapel
in the borough, and inserted in two newspapers, printed
and published and circulating in the borough, fourteen
clear days before holding the meeting.
After a long and irregular conversation, in which
almost every Member of the Committee took part, this
suggestion was eventually agreed to.
Mr. STANFORD proposed an amendment to the
effect that in order to make the rate legal one-third at
least of the ratepayers should be present at the melting,
and assenting to the rate.
After some discussion,
The CHAIRMAN, at the suggestion of Mr. EWART, re-
ported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Wed-
nesday next.
The Parish Constables Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday week.
The Exchequer-bills (9,200,0001.) Bill was read a third
time and passed.

Mr. MILLINGS moved for a copy of any Treasury
minute made at the times of or relating to the appoint-
ments of Lord Denman and Lord Campbell respectively
to the office of Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench; and
of any letters or written communications which passed
on those occasions between such Chief Justices and any
member of or connected with the Government, or on
their respective behalf; and of so much or any part of
the letters patent granting such office to the Lords
Denman and Campbell respectively, as appointed or
fixed, or related to their respective salaries as such Chief
Justices.

Mr. HAYTER had no objection to produce any docu-
ments that were public ones, but he must decline any
private ones. If the motion was confined to any
Treasury minute there would be no objection to it.
Mr. MULLINGS was only anxious to obtain the
official documents on the subject.
Mr. HAYTER said that all official letters on record
would be produced,
Mr. MULLINGS said that would answer the purpose
he had in view.
The motion as amended was then agreed to.
The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Six o'clock.