The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-15 00:00:00

number. But from the display of military Yor-ce. he be-
lieved that no collision would be possible. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had said that the me.eting.was not legal,
but nothing could have been easier for Mr. O'Connell
than to try that question by going with a few persons to
the place of meeting and bringing an action of trespass
against those who prevented them from meeting. The
Noble Lord proposed to go into Committee of the whole
House, and then to propound resolutions condemnatory
of the conduct of the present Government, but the Noble
Lord cautiously abstained from propounding any reme-
dies except to increase the number of stipendiary magis-
trates. His Right Hon. Friend gave that Noble Lord
such a lesson on this subject, that he believed he would
not be in a hurry to propose such a recipe again.—
(Cheers.) The Noble Lord spoke of the Established
Church of Ireland, which he would break up into a
tripartite division to make provision for the three
Churches in Ireland, Catholic, Protestant, and Presby-
terian. But the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Waterford, repudiated any idea of making a 'State pro-
vision for the Roman Catholic Church. It was not
worth while therefore discussing the subject, because
the only object the Government could have in view in
proposing such a State provision for the Catholic clergy
would be to secure their good will and affections; and if
they were told by Roman Catholics it would
be injurious to their religion, it would be al-
together hopeless to attempt such a proposal.
Thep. they came to the question, were they to subtract
any portion of the revenues of.the Protestant Church.
In his speech the Hon. Gentleman disclaimed any such
intention ; he said it was not a question of money.
Well, then, it must be the actual existence of the
Established Church which was concerned ; and
though he believed that the great boy of
Roman Catholics would adhere to the declarations
which they had made on this subject, yet he believed
that there were men, there were agitators, in Ireland,
who would not be satisfied with any measure, short of
the actual subversion of the Protestant Church.—(Hear,
hear.) He did not believe that that House, or
any House which might be assembled, would consent
to the subversion of the Protestant' Church in Ireland.
He did not know what might now be the opinions of
the Noble Lord opposite ; but when he introduced the
Church Temporalities Bill, be stated that he did so with
a view rather of strengthening the Protestant Church ;
and, therefore, though he might have been disposed to
take a portion of its funds, as in the case of the Appro-
priation Bill, for other.purposes, he would not be disposed
altogether to subvert the Establishment. The object in
that case was to apply a certain Jart to general educa-
cation, and not to provide for the religious education of
the people. Some references had been made to the de-
clarations that he (Lord Eliot) had formerly made in
that House. To those declarations he adhered, both in
their letter and in their spirit.—(Hear, hear.) He did
not remember the very words, but they simply imported
that the Government, of which he had become a member,
would conduct the Government of Ireland in a spirit of
impartiality. Now, notwithstanding all the aspersions
which had been cast upon her Majesty's Government,
he was quite unable to fix on any single act which
required defence from him. The Government had been
in power two years and a half, and during that time he had
not heard any imputation except that which his Hon.
Friend had expressed last night in reference to the jury,
and, generally speaking, their exercise of Crown patron
age; and he presumed-the Right Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site were not so ignorant of the Constitution of this
country as to imagine that her Majesty's Government
were bound to dispense that only to their'political oppo-
nents. Now it did so happen, unfortunately, that a very
large majority in the liberal professions in Ireland be-
longed to the Established Church. Take the instance
of Queen's counsel. The Queen's counsel were about
sixty or seventy in number. How many Roman Catho-
lic Queen's counsel were there ? Twelve. Had it been
said by any man in that House, or in Ireland, that
either the late Lord Chancellor, Lord Plunket, or the
present Lord Chancellor, had excluded from the
honour of the silk gown any man whose pro-
' fessional standing entitled him to it ?—(Hear, hear.)
He denied that that had ever been the case. Eight
Queen's counsel were employed by the traversers. It
was to be presumed that they put into requisition the
services of the most eminent men at the bar of the Ro-
man Catholic religion, yet out of the eight Queen's
counsel five were Protestants. Could there be a stronger
proof that the great majority of eminent men belonging
to the bar were Protestants?—(Hear, hear.) It was this
circumstance which made it difficult for the Government
to select for office men professing the Roman Catholic
religion.—(Hear, hear,) It was painful to him to enter
into these personal discussions, but he asked gentlemen
opposite, who brought these grave charges against the
Government, to consider in what position they were
placed. He contended that the Government had con-
ferred honours on men who, by the common consent of
-their profession, stood in the foremost ranks, and lie de-
fied the Hon. Gentleman to produce any instance in which
any unfit orimproper man had been raised to the Bench
or appointed to any office. As so much had been said
of the partiality of the English Government to English-
men, he had thought it right to state that he believed,
since their accession to power, the Government had not
made a single appointment which they had reason to
regret. Her Majesty's present Government had ap-
pointed three stipendiary magistrates—a situation of
very great responsibility. They had selected an assist-
ant barrister for a high judicial office, and that gentle-
man had conciliated to himself the good-will and affections
of the inhabitants of one of the most important counties
in Ireland. He referred to Mr. Sergeant Howley, who
had received from the whole of the magistracy, upwards
of 100, from private gentlemen, from the yeomanry, and
from the inhabitants at large of the county of Tipperary,
an expression of satisfaction at his appointment. He
believed that Mr. Sergeant Howley was the only Roman
Catholic whom the Government could have selected for
the honour conferred on him ; but, at the same time, he
must assert that there were many gentlemen at the bar,
belonging to the Protestant Church, whose claims
were quite equal to those of Mr. Sergeant Howley,
whose politics, though they had always been moderate,
were certainly not those of the present Government.
He thought he had said enough to show the House
that, in the distribution of patronage, her Majesty's Go-
vernment had not been actuated by any exclusive or un-
worthy motives, but that they had endeavoured to select
the men whom they thought best qualified for their re-
spective offices, without reference to religious distinc-
tions or differences.—(Hear, hear.) He did maintain,
that in the whole course of their administration, the
Government had been guilty of no dereliction of duty
whatever, either by tampering with the administration
of justice or by promoting anything like an ascendancy
of one party over the other. He believed that the
strictest impartiality had been observed, and he should
be prepared, whenever called upon, to vindicate any of
the appointments or any particular acts of the Irish
Government. But it was very difficult to deal with these
sweeping, vague, and general accusations. He had taxed
his memory to the utmost, for instances in which some
apology or explanation might be necessary, but he
honestly confessed .that he could not find one. He
would not indulge in vague and general expressions of
attachment to Ireland, but he said unaffectedly that he
had always entertained a warm desire to promote the
prosperity of that country, and his official connexion
with it, the kind and hospitable reception which he had
met with in the country, and the friendships which he
was happy to say he had contracted there, as well as
all which he had seen of the country and its inhabitants,
had greatly strengthened and increased that desire. He
might be mistaken in the means which he thought
adapted to that end, but he honestly declared that he
would never be a consenting party to any measure
which he did not seriously believe to be calculated to
advance the welfare of the Irish nation.—(Loud cheers.)
On the motion of an Hosr. MEMBER the debate was
again adjourned.
Mr. FERRAND then moved for a copy of the General
Order of the Poor-law Commissions, which has received
the sanction of the Secretary of State, that no child of
seven years old shall be separated in any workhouse
from its mother.

Sir J. GRAHAM said that all that the Hon. Member
had asked for had been placed before the House.—
(Hear, hear.) It had already been printed in every
shape and form.—( Hear, hear.) He must, therefore,
protest against the re-printing of the Order alluded to
by the Hon. Member.
Mr. FERRAND said he only wished for that part of
the order which related to the separation of mother and
_ _

Sir J: GRAHAM said that he could have no objec-
tion, if the lion. Member wished it, although he could
now hand him up every information, to agree to his
suggestion, but in doing so he must be allowed to say
that it was unnecessary.—(Hear, hear.)
The motion was then negatived, and the House ad-
journed at Half-past Twelve o'Clock.