The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-16 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING,

rz,tcellor of the Exchequer) stated as to relief front
".alv3n, W 113 this, that he proposed a measure IN ith rc-
te stately', the loss upon which would be somewhere
"'t 300,0004 ; arid another mea.,ure with regard to
h hity on bricks, the loss upon which would be some-
cver 450 000/ two
• tk; - the ogethr, a loss
, • , or, a .13, •
Jou 000/, The Hon. Gentleman said, t
nowe tba,- he
Chateellor iff the Exchequer) had, somehow or
-'er, a surplus of 300,0001. But ho was at a loss to
my, whence it was to
come. When he stated that the
assure he Proposed with regard to stamps would in-
Ave a loss of somewhere under 300,0004 ho at the
oairette time stated that he proposed to relieve transactions
of"':' isMall amount, as he had done, and increase those
.„_ arger amount; and that upon a balance he should
.',,3oooooL—(llear hear.)
,1411: DISRAELI said the Hight Honourable Gentle-
.":„.."ad, spokel of an ad vale? cm duty; as well as of the
a, e'ten of a lower duty, which was to be accepted as
kraPensation in relief of small proprietors. But what
c, „the Honourable Gentleman mean to do with the
3,001. in that case ? To't ilk of a balance was a very
iarenient fiction, but there was nothing said of a ba-
'' ate when there was talk of a compensation. The
,`" eleraittee was now told that the loss on the balance
Zat,ld be 350,0001. That was not the original idea of
uudgel. In fact, it now turned out that, instead
f 4,tremission of ta,x_ktion, there would be an increase
the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
it tinetlY that there was to be an ad valorem duty, al , tt lowerine•
h , the lesser duty without increasing the
Ater would he a equivalent to a loss of 300,000/.th . _
GOULI3URN wished t know on what principle
loss in question had been calculated, The Riqht
k UentletUan said that if the duties on large and small
- ertk
tie -age3 were rsduced one-haif, the loss would not be
‘ithere
re than 60 0001.
The
.weoullidA
hNeCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
' stietitsn a great loss on conveyances—the
200,,,,,,,0n that branch alone was calculated at
The increase in small transactions, it was
ze-11 vvould help up the resenue ; and it wasr
th at parties would get instruments stamped here-
t.
~
-
etoicr.
40 ho had never got them stamped before. He cal-
-
- "(1 at
„, g would
sornethin be gained on this aa .well
-engage,.
I %V' 11ACKENZIE asked how it was proposed
evaded
1 ift.rreteh.BtamPing a large transaction? It might be
The - r,",N"ing of this Act as it was before.
vas "aANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
mnot worth while.
V?' eIteENLEY said the sum of 60,000/ fixed by the
Lime Gentleman was so precise, that it was clear
et e roust be materials in the possession of the Go-
t! I I!caent whereon to base it. He, therefore, thought
CTireresation should not be withheld from the House.
r A'TT°RNEY-GENERAL said it would be seen
oulide e°_l3:lP4railve estimate of conveyances. that there
uc a considerable saving in transactions up to
Them:nu:ion stain p of 9L would suffice to that
14111. e Prom that to 100,0 01. the scale was nearly theo
*4, r 1,,,,_110 present. Conveyances beyond 100,00 /
in .sse4ti-Y,'"'re. The proceeds of the present scale were
4,448,1/ which was equivalent in stamps to
Ss' 61. The loss on conveyances, therefore,
s)f be 266,299/. 4s 63 assuming the same number
trilesaetions aft r "ssing of the Bill as before. If
tb from Fe- fpa -•- s and following stamps
lit Ire added ;
weyer
W:..stsvoeuaslde3 amorou)netarto_ 309,0001. All that,
to tii,"" of course a matter of estimate.
plain in the matter. The Hon. Secretary for the
ry
im Skid he could obtain no return of the stamps on
, leSancest_but the Attorney-General, nevertheless,
it °Ned the !louse exactly what the amount of the trans-
irbeehawaere. He was, therefore, in possession of data
„ The net been communicated to the House.
ore CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
11 to .a " 438, but he could not prove a gain in this in-
to „'• The Government knew the number of stamps
iirequired
"e Market, but they could not tell how many would
for mortgages, or how many. for convey-
s :111• They could only calculate a certain amount fur
1111. ass,
PI -4,-ILLINGS said the 151. stamps were not ap-
t able to
' atsamt conveyances • the • were only used in mote-
, settlements. He had it from good authority
of preeeeds of the stamp duty on the conveyance
frameson/11°a of from 10,000/. to 15,000/., and on settle-
11' mcie 12,000/. to 15,000/., were 4,500/. or 4,600/.
t ,„n, theta mall for mortgages, it would give an average
liir'')Cl°L; but taking two-thirds as mortgages and one-
lt as settlements, and taking off 4,500/, it would
tt, 7Ye 14,2504
to 7ould Reducing this by omissions to 12,000/.,
4,500/ive the stamps 30,001., a number equivalent
ixtiir U• WILLOUGHBY said the Bill imposed new
" 13 as, which ought to have a full discussion. Under the
lathe
f leases would be taxed for instance:
tl ne CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
ioer° wet no absolutely new tax in the Bill; but he
fi te'ght it would be more convenient to call attention to
?points in question as the clauses were proceeded with.
BRIGetTof said there was an almost universal
B i irVoa that the Bill would increase taxation, in placeof
14 tr,l'ally relief. As few Hon. Members wero conver-
tt
with the nature of the Bill, he suggested that i
!MiU.l(.l be sent to a Select Committee, to whom the whole
nn of stamps could be referred. He was favourable
y,
an ad
nuainiubeivaaanieeerdaenivpyrdoutaptxeyliataybut he wished one of a lower per
amts
than that fixed by the Bill, which in his opinion
hit
erh_
.it stood upon all large transac-
e SOLICITOR-GENERAL said if the Bill was
11.0,:e;:tteSclellevs Chiomeziettheeee,there would be a number of
sitl,t_r ton itself would be absaonledtealybigwhbeluree bitoowka;ab.utßthee.
sit "dint
eh, he believed the forms of the House would
4tthis ;reiTht of such a course of proceeding. He believed
country would be greatly benefited by the re-
-9il 'ale ..01;„);,'" he also believed that there would be a loss
lj to 300,000/. on the whole transaction.
/Ltenia •
","'CRELL backed the suggestion of the Hon.
t "r 'er Manchester. He also thought the Bill should
b. hew'' barer
in a Select Committee. The Bill would lay
teateeY tax upon land, inasmuch as conveyances P
els er..r:oPerty, while mortgages represented debt. re
In
54%er 121°D, lanad valorem duty of 8 per cent. would be
Pose, Jut) and as much as there was any ground to ins-
to
l‘ert.iieSrAvtl)heLdE, IR said that the more the Bill came'
e it. A:pheremseonrte fgeneral
comprehended would bet hiet
s objections
bearing;
the At
of the Government itself were not of
'tenor with with one another on the subject—the Chan-
-reor of the Exchequer stating one thing, and the At-
:lYGneral stating another. • As regarded Ireland,
ta Government in his opinion had taken a most unfor-
et
14te moment to apply the provisions of the Bill to that
of tarltrY, seeing that it Was almost impossible to dispose
ea _ large estates which existed there under the cri-
c., ialpered Estates Commission. The purchaser would
di
set it f set
te the ad valorem duty upon the stamp, and de-
el
its , real the purchase money. But there was another
th e ifteteserving the consideration of the House—namely,
40,1,„.'Ne class of proprietors who might be able to pre-
sal
L01e; a portion of their property by effecting volunteer?.
t• of the remainder without coming within the op _
of the Bocumbered EA sees Act. The proposed
.4 mien would operate very severely upon them..
.Thek
etaveriercial classes in Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Limerhc.r,
Waterford had been unable to communicatedt
theei
lsudtes to the Government, and the bankers an
d interest were in the same position. Under theseet
littorustnces, he hoped the Government would
~such with the Bill at the present moment, or, at nal!
efra, that ample time would be allowed for its con
jatioia before taking the next stage.
:.litiegir.olleUntllereE:roluld not understand the objection of the
oPposite, because, if any class would
tvhe benefit from the raising of this measure it wouldw_o
yrr„.‘, e proprietors and purchasers of Irish property, h
Isis,'d be enabled to sell portions of property under
fete. at• a reduced duty.—(Efee.r, hear.) When they
Ait,.aasured by. the Government that the amount
the
lete;`l°ll under this Bill would bo less than under
it
Ai-eclat eYstetn by the sum of 300,0001, he considered
eteddthet'Y Of the Ilouse' to support the reduction. It was
by ar,l'Ythe decrease on the smaller sums would be met
the see eterease on the larger ones; but he considered
tinderoPosed distribution more equal than the former,te
to'ai ivhich a large mass of property had been exempitel
therne:itoof ' the community at large.
Het
0
aff,'°lntaittee would proceed with .the Bill, in order
to
beau swelter , the smaller proprietors who had hither
r. e, Ilea oppressed.
wereno NOLLY said that as many. Hon.hdMeeemmbeersat
iseeemicit; vrepared to go into the discussion, a
ho trustedSive answers bad been given by the Government,
'tiderei the Committee would defer the further con-
Lord of the Bill to a future time.—(Hear.)
'teppe.'"pu,,,_. RUSSELL could not see how the postpone-
the 4,1"u0 Bill for. a week or a fortnight would assist
I.loo,,reet which 11 n Members had in view. The
%tie; 'unalbor for Carlowo objected to the proposed altehr-
eiveti-,,," account of the condition of Ireland. That ? -
of lye did not apply merely to the present considerationuriug
the but to its consideration at any periodthe d
tatie„ end would, if successful, defeat c•onsider-
for of the Stamp Acts altogether. The subject had.
N4llllll/3' Years attracted public observation. The In-
lttho_,ltuyoctif the stamp duty on land had been remarked
13'11Y in writing and at publicng to in-
nap ti s, but by
quirey niraittee of the House of Lords, appointed
d the
e int) tho inequality of the Stamp Acts an
te.sitt hardship inflicted on the smaller proprietors by theth
att':Y. charge placed upon them. Last year
we:
deeezitetl°ll of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
nOder--d to the subject, ,which
the was brought
ere e notice of the House early in the
flop nt
session, and about a month ago his Right
• 10, Pliend- pointed out the nature of the measure
dalch he intended to propose—namely, to diminish theef
seJ, I smaller conveyances, and the transactions
• eater Proprietors, and at the same time to make duties
had ajger transactions more equal. After thedetailseat-
tee_en given, and the resolution proposed. malty mentions were received by his Right Hon.
the
ohnt_°ll.B4l endeavoured, as far as possible, to obviate
ha ions which had been raised.—(Hear, hear.) But,
1":?uld ask, would no inconvenince arise from dFliq-
R the
measure for a month, and keeping the public in
great inconvenience
of the intentions of the House?—(Hear, hear..).
"'ee_.t inconvenience always resulted from the.postpot.ie
pt
9f measures of this kind, many transactions being
tie tela
Ogee aneeatice. If there was a general agreement
Principle of the measure, let the Committee at
'u so,-,go into a consideration of the' details, in order that
jeeti progress might be made.—(lfeer, hear.) The ob-
e) or made by the Hon. Member for Bridport applied
undexisting Act as much as to the measure now
think
consideration. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to
for k that a man with an estate of 50,0001., mortgaged
nott2°'oool., would be in a wer:e position than a
0•-• with an estate worth 20,0001., mortgaged for
to '•°(11. But this was not a matter for Parliament
fo_
into, If, however, the object was good
,/,f, anything it applied equally to the present Aci. a; %mount of duty on property exceeding 5,00/ ,
124,1;4 more than 10,0001., sobs ; but exceeding
the stamp Rag 25/. The ection, therefore,

was not tenable; bat that and all other objections would
be be:t ,r considered as they arose on the different
clauses.— (Hear.)
Mr. MO WATT Paid, when ho considered that the
effect cf the Bill would he to facilitate the transfer k f
small portions of land—that it would relieve the pressure
of stamps upon mortgages, conveyances, &c., having re-
lation to small propeleire, while it would extend the
equitable principle of ad valorem taxation to large pro-
perties—he was at a loss to discover on what ground the
measure could be objected to.
Mr. MITCHELL said his remark was intended to
show that whilst the duty on mortgages ought t be as
low as possible. the amount would now be 31,/. for what
was formerly charged 251.
Mr. HEALD said, that after giving a portion of re-
lief out of the surplus revenue, the Bill would increase
the taxation on interests of more than I,oool.—(Near,
hear.) He wished to know how much the Chancellor
of the Exchequer calculated the Treasury would lose by
granting relief in eases up to 1,000/ ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. said
upon all conveyances up to 1,300 i. there would bo a po-
sitive relief. Upon all conveyances from 1,3001. to
100,0001. it was the same, or nearly the seine thing; for
whilst et present the amount jumped from thousand to
thousand, it was proposed to make it jump from hun-
dred to hundred, and the consequence would be that the
stamp on every sum between 1001. and 500/. would be
diminished, whilst above that sum it would be increased.
He calculated the loss to the revenue upon the whole of
the conveyances, upon some of the mortgages, and on
leases, would be somewhere under 300,000/. By the
alteration which he proposed tonight, in reducing the
stamp duty on mortgages and bonds from one-half per
cent. to our-quarter per cent., he expected to incur au-
other loss ; be', believing that by so doing he could in-
crease the number of transactions on which the stamp
duty was laid, he calculated the loss upon the whole of
the two schedules to be from 330,0001. to 350,0001.
Mr. LAW said the object of the Right lion. Gentle-
man ems stated to be a reduction of the duty on amoucts
under 1,000/., and his calculations were based on that sum,
and he (Mr. Law) believed there existed a general desire
to relieve these parties who were liable to the payments
to that extent. But these existed on that (the Opposi-
tion) side of the House such an " ignorant impatience
of taxation," that they were not prepared to receive any
additioual burden.—(Hear, hear.) Mortgages were very
ill able to bear a stamp.
Mr. SPOONER remarked. that the Right Hon. Gene
tlemau had not answered thesViestion of the Right Hon.
Member for Stockport, who wished to know what would
be the loss upon the reduCtion inhere should be no ad-
dition.
Lord D. STUART believed the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would show a great increase from the pro-
posed alteration. But at all events it would be a great
relief to the poor,' and a step towards a fair apportion-
ment of taxation between the poor and the rich. In
many cases the poor man paid 40 times as much as the
rich, but by the Bill he would only pay about twice as
much. Ile was surprised that the Hon. Member for
Manchester should wish to delay the measure, which
was calculated to facilitate the transfer of those freehold
properties which the Hon. Member was so desirous of
placing in the hands of the middling and lower classes.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON trusted the Committee
would proceed with the Bill, which would confer a great
benefit on persons making transfers not exceeding 1,300/.
—(Hear.) But whether it might be wise to give the ad
dition asked for was another question.—(Hear, hear.)
Ile hailed the Bill with seti!faction, considering it a step
in the right direction; but, in recommending the Com-
mittee to proceed with it, he was not at all prepared to
adopt the ascending scale.—(Hear.)
Mr. MULLINGS said the Bill was in a most imper-
Lct state, and required much more consideration, inas-
much as it proposed to tax property which had hitherto
not been liable to stamp duty, such as annuities, rents,
Government debentures, &e., from which a considerable
revenue would he derived.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
if the Hot. Member would submit his suggestions on the
subject to the Government they should receive careful
attention.
Mr. SANDARS thought they ought to be informed
what would Le the actual loss on the remission of taxa-
tion, without reference to the expected increase. He
also pointed out the heavy tax inflicted on parties who
had to register memorials in the register counties of
York and Middlesex.
Mr. HUDSON advocated the postponement of the dis-
cussion for a week. He bed been in communication
with gentlemen connected with the legal profession, who
had pointed out many objections to the measure; and be
thought, therefore, that some further time ought to be
afforded for its consideration.—(Divide, divide.)
After some further conversation, the first clause was
agreed to.
On clause 2,
Mr. SADLEIR wished to know how the case would
stand with instruments executed prior to the passing of
this measure. He knew that one of the most eminent
conveyancers, who had carefully examined this clause,
thought that the greatest difficulty would be found in
affixing the proper duty, and to know whether they
would come under the old or new law.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, if the Honour-
able Member would refer to the end of the first clause,
he would find the difficulty removed; for it was there
provided that the 'old duties contained in schedule A
should Le repealed, except as to so much and in such
parts of the said duties respectively as should have ac-
crued in respect of any deed or instrument signed or exe-
cuted, or which should bear date before or upon the sth
July, 1850. So that all duties and all penalties on deeds
executed before that day would come under the old Act,
and those executed subsequently under the new.
Mr. R. PALMER asked if the exemption in favour of
building societies was to be continued?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was understood to
say that no alteration would be made as regarded the
exemptions.
The clause was then agreed to, as were clauses 3 and
4, after a short conversation.
On:clause 5, which makes all persons receiving moneys
for stamp (lades, and misappropriating the same, debtors
to the Crown,
Mr. HENLEY wished to know what would be dove
with the deed in such cases? Was the party who bad
been defrauded of the stamp duty to be deprived of the
use of his deed?
Mr. WALPOLE asked bow a good title could ever be
made to the estate of a solicitor under such a law, for
how could it be known to what extent he might be a
debtor to the Crown?
Mr. LAW asked if a party who bad paid the amount
of duty so misapplied would be allowed to have the
benefit of his deed on proving that he had paid the
money?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was un-
derstood to say that the stamp would be made good in
such cases.
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 6, which raises the penalty on deeds stamped
after execution from 51. to 101., and makes other altera-
tions in the mode of imposing it,
Mr. SADLEIR protested against the innovation con-
tained in this clause. At present parties were enabled
to get a deed stamped within sixty days after execution
in Ireland, and six weeks in England, without any ex-
planation or affidavit. Had this practice worked ill?
Had it led to any fraud, or bad there been any complaint
from the solicitor of stamps, ur any protest ngainet it?
None whatever, while many very important classes of
the community would be found strongly in favour of
maintaining the present system. It was most unwise to
multiply occasions for adminiatering oaths, and he knew
many who entertained strong objections to making the
long affidavits which were often required for the pur-
pose of stamping deeds after the prescribed period
had elapsed. He objected, moreover, to giving the
Commissioners the discretion of requiring oaths at their

plea sure.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that under the
present system an affidavit was required after the ex-
piration of six weeks. That alteration was found neces—
sary in consequence of the frequent occurrence of cases
in which the duty was not paid at all until it became ne-
cessary to sell the estate, and then after a lapse of years
the stamp was impressed on payment of the penalty of
5/. He knew an instance of this kind where a man held
an estate for five•and-twenty years without paying any
stamp duty at all. At the end of :that time the estate
was sold, and it was found that a stamp of 1,00/. was
payable, and this was obtained on payment of a penalty
of V., the vendor having enjoyed the interest for 25
3ears. He knew another case of the same kind, in
which a deed bad remained unstarsped since 1834.
Alter some further discussion the clause was agreed

to.
Clause 7 was agreed to after certain words had
omitted, on the motion of Alderman THOMPSON.been
On clause 8,
Mr GOULBURN thought this clause would impose
an additional charge on the public, by allowing station-
ers to charge as they pleased for stamped paper.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that at present a
vendor of stamps charged what price he pleased fur all
stamped paper, except receipt stamps. It was proposed
by this clause to put receipt stamps on the same footing
in that respect as other stampF.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that there was no
profit on receipt stamps to the seller.
After a few words from Mr. CARDWELL and Mr.
FORSTER in opposition to the clause,
Mr. HUME thought that Government ought to fix tl:e
sum which sellers of stamps should charge. If the clause
was not altered, be should move it be struck out.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would not insist on the clause.
Clause struck out.
On clause 9,
Mr. SADLEIR understood the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer t 3 state that it was not intended to impose any
duty on deeds at present exempted. He wished the right
Hon. Gentleman, if that was his intention, to state so
decidedly.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would
state his intentions when they came to the schedule.
The clause and the remaining clauses were then
agreed to.
On schedule A (the repealing schedule) being pro-
posed,
Mr. MULLINGS wished to introduce certain words
into the.schedule for the purpose of reducing the duty on
agreements up to a certain amount.
Mr. HU ME wished to know what corresponding duties
the Hon . Member proposed to enact ?
Mr. MULLINGS said he had a clause which he
would propose to introduce into schedule B, respecting
corresponding duties. At present he proposed to insert
in schedule A words to the effect that in agreements con-
taining less than 1,080 wordy, there should be a duty of
2s. Gd. ; and for every other 1,080 words, a further duty
of 2s. 6d.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that, as the law
at present stood, agreements containing under 1,080
words were charged with a duty of 2s. 6d., and for
every further 1,00 words. As he understood the pro-
posed alteration, the. effect of it would be tO keep the

first charge of 23. 64. as at present, but to make the
second charge 2.. 61 instead of 555. That would cause
a considerable loss to the revenue.
After a short conversation,
Ine CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Hon. Gentleman had not given notice of his proposed
amendments, as he had of his clauses; and as his propo-
sition would involve a loss to the revenue, he thought
there ought to he some time allowed to consider it.
The CHAIRMAN asked whether the Hon. Member
intended pressing his amendment?
Mr. MULLINGS—I do.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
bad not had an opportunity of considering the proposal,
and only wanted time fur that purpose.
Mr. HUME suggested to the lion. Member not to
press his motion to a division under the circumstances.
Mr. ROEBUCK also said it was only fair to give time
for the consideration of the proposition.
Mr. HUME—Give notice.
The amendment was then understood to have been
withdrawn, and schedule A agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved that schedule B should be agreed to. In doing
so he said he proposed to make a reduction of from one-
half to a quarter per cent. He proposed to reduce the
duty upon bonds for any sum not exceeding 501. to from
se. to 24. 6.1, and not exceeding 1001. from los. to ss.
Mr. GOULBURN said he did not approve tho
principle of an ad valorem duty being appliedin mattera
of revenue. If they were prepares to go on with that
principle they would make the lower part of their scale
so low that it would entail considerable loss upon the
revenue, while they would les obliged to make the higher
part too high.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know whether it was to be
supposed just that the poor man, who only wanted to
borrow 101., should pay as much in proportion as the
rich one who wanted to borrow 10,000/.? The small
sum to the indigent person was of greater ronsequence
than the larger sum to tho opulent man.—(Hear.)
Mr. GOULBURN said ho had at an earlier part of
the evening stated his opinion with respect to the bene-
fits derived by the community at large and the com-
mercial affairs of the country from affording facilities for
the execution of securities for advances of large sums of
money. By imposing heavy burdens upon such trans-
actions they imposed restrietiuus upon the employment
of capita', which would act in a very injurious manner.
If they were going to fix an ad wiloremjduty it should
be done so as to press lightly upon the lower party.
Mr. ROEBUCK said if the Right Hon. Gentleman
wished to make his rule from the bolt of the scale to
the higher part of it be would agree with him; other-
wise he would oppose him.
Mr. DISRAELI said if they adopted the ad valorem
duty, he agreed with the principle that the first step
ought to be moderate.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said at
present there was a duty on bonds exceeding 501. of 55.,
that he proposed reducing to 2s. 6d.; and he proposed
making a proportionate reduction on the present sm.() of
duties like that which he had stated. He proposed that
the duty on no bond should exceed 25/., no matter what
the sum. By the present law, if a trader or shopkeeper
wanted to borrow 5001., he had to pay a stamp duty of
12L, while the party who wanted to borrow 500,0001.
only paid 25/, That was an injustice and an anomaly
which he wished to remedy.
After a short conversation, in which several Hon.
Members took Fart,
An HoN. MEMBER (whether Mr. Mullings or Sir li.
Willoughby we could not ascertain) was understood to
move as an amendment that the sum of 1 s. bo substituted
for 23. 6d. in the proposition of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer.
Mr. DISRAELI said what they were then endeavour-
ing to do was to construct a new system, and while doing
so they should try to construct it upon a just principle.
—(Hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor
of the Exchequer alluded to what was anomalous and
monstrous in the old system, as if they were responsible
for it more than himself, and as if that reference was an
argument for the course he had pursued on the present
occasion. The Right Hon. Gentleman argued as if there
were two questions before the House—namely, the con.
sideration of the interests of the rich and poor. As far
as he understood the matter, he conceived they were en-
gaged in an endeavour to be equally just to the poor as
well as the rich, and it was said the ad valorem system
ought to be carried into effect with respect to both. It
was necessary that in any initial step which they made
in that matter they should take up that position, that
while they relieved the poor as much as possible they
would impose no improper or impolitic burdens on the
more wealthy portions of the community. He should
support the motion cf. his Hon. Friend if be proceeded to
a division, as he hoped he would.—(Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said there was another element in the
whole of that discussion which had been left out by the
Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire. They had a reve-
nue to raise. The Bill itself was a most mischievous
Bill—one of the worst that could be introduced. It was
one only for raising money, and as such he accepted it
under an impression of ies direful necessity. But he
would put the question, what was to be received
by that Bill. If the House took his advice, they would
throw it out of doors altogether. It was a most mis-
chievous Bill, because of its interference with the ad-
ministration of justice, and could only be tolerated on
the score of the revenue which they were told was to be
raised by it. He would like the Chancellor of the Ex•
chequer to tell them what would be the amount of reve-
nue raised if they began with Is. instead of 2s. 6d.
Mr. BANKES said, that question had not arisen from
a necessity, but a surplus in the revenue.—(Hear, hear.)
It was that extraordinary incident of a surplus which
had given rise to the present discussion.—(Hear.) He
confessed that his impression of that portion of the sub-
ject, when listening to the debate on the budget, was very
different from what it was at present. He had then
heard nothing of an ad valorem duty.—(Hear.) lie had
heard nothing but of some small relief applicable to the
land. But if he was in error it might be so. However,
they had now come, it seemed, ti an ad valorem duty;
and if it was to be an admitted principle, let them prove
how they were to act upon it.— (Hear.)
Mr. HUME said he believed it would be better to
begin at Is. than at 2s. 6d. Ile had been informed that
if a considerable reduction was made in the amount of
those duties the humbler classes would very much in-
crease the number of their deposits in large offices; so
that the Exchequer would perhaps suffer no loss from the
alteration.
Mr. HENLEY said it should be remembered that
they were dealing with a surplus, and not with a defi-
ciency; and as, according to the calculation of the Right
Hon Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the
reduction from 23. 6d. to Is. would only entail a further
loss of 48,0001., they should not be deterred from ef-
fecting that reduction by the apprehended loss to the
revenue.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was true they Were dealing with a surplus, but if they
were to calculate too much on that surplus they would
soon lose it altogether. He proposed that the duty
should be reduced from 1/. to 2s. 6d., and that would
surely in itself be a very liberal measure.
After a few words from Mr. Henley, Sir 11. Wil-
loughby, and Mr. Mullings,
Mr. GOULBURN was disposed to think that as to
bonds and mortgages, being for the relief of persons in
distress, it was better policy to place the duty too low
than too high.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For Sir H. 'Willoughby's amendment ... 164
Against it
Majority against the Government ... —29
The announcement of the numbers was received with
load cheering.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the House
then resumed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
after the decision which the Committee had come to,
which involved a most serious loss to the revenue, ami
which, if adopted throughout the Bill, would render it
impossible for him to go on, he must ask the House to
allow him time to consider the course he should take.
Although the amendment applied only to bonds, the
principle involved mortgages and other things. He
should, therefore, take time to consider, and would post-
pone the further consideration of the Bill till Monday
next.—(Herr, hear.)
Mr. CARDWELL begged to ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade whether
the Bills relating to the mercantile marine would be pro-
ceeded with on Friday?
Mr. LABOUCIIERE said they would not come on,
as ho proposed taking the Australian Bill on that night,
and he should not be able to fix any evening for their
discussion.

SECURITIES FOR ADVANCES (IRELAND
BILL.

On the order of tho day for the second marling of this
Bill,
Mr. J. STUART raid the present Bill was introduced
for the purpose of facilitating the operation of the Sale
of Incumbored Estates Act. lie had, in the early part
of the evening, suggested that the House ought to bare
some authentic information on the subject. That infor-
mation appeared to him indispensably necessary to
authorise the House to pass the Bill. He had com-
plained that his Right Hon. Friend the Solicitor-General
for England had discharged duties which did not pro-
perly belong to him. It was the duty of the Irish law
officers to attend there and guide the House by their in-
formation and advice. Now, they had not had
a scintilla of information from the Irish law officers.
Nothing could be more absurd in the course of legisla-
tion than that the party in charge of a measure, when
asked for information to guide the House as to
whether the measure was proper or not, should
declare that he was not in possession of any au-
thentic information. Whether the Irish Solicitor-
General had any information to give them he
had yet to learn. He had, in the early part of the even-
ing, asked' three questions. First, whether any sales
hai taken place under the Encumbered Estates Bill ?
inany orders had been made by the Com-
sale of encumbered estates, and how
smmeicasonsnyi°d3wlyee'rrsbeofnowr the
now in operation, but under which no sales
had been effect ,c 1 ? and the third question had reference
to the enactments in the proposed Bill by which parties
were enabled to purchase estates, paying only half the
purchase money, and without any personal responsibi-
lity for the payment of the other half. lie did not think
that such a sale had been ever heard of in any country
in the world. He wished to know if any proposals had
been made to purchase estates on these terms ? He
pawed for information.—(Hear, hear.) He thought
the House would consider it but reasonable not to ale
low such si Bill to proceed to a second reading until
that information had been obtained. Having given
the Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General f.ir England
due notice of those questions, and be having suggested
that the returns which would give that information
should be moved for in the usual manner, and having
refused to allow them to be moved for at once, it was, he
thought, only reasonable to move the adjournment of
the debate until that infermatice was furnished,—(Hear.)

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL f,:r IRELAND and the So- i
LICIT)R GENERAL for ENGLAND rosn to:Tether, which
e!icAed much cheering and laughter from the Opposi-
tion benches; the latter llon. and Learned Gentleman
gave way, and
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL fir IRELAND said
he felt it his bounden duty, notwithstanding that the
answer to these questions had ben postponed, in conse-
quence of the personal affront to him.elf, to ray a few
words,_(llesr, hear.) With regard to the Solicitor-
General for England having the conduct of the Encum-
bered Estates Bill, he begged to say that the measure
was originated by that Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man before he had the honour of a scat in that [louse.
(Hear, hear.) The subject had been long under consi-
deration with those parties with whom the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had advised in Ireland, wl.ea ho
(Mr. Hatehell) had no expectation of a seat in that
llouse.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the present
measure, although it had been introduced after he had
become a Member, still it was engrafted upon and formed
part of the same code. Tho Lion. end Learned Gentle-
man opposite must have been aware of that fact. With
regard to the questions he had asked, he was surprised
that the llon. and Learned Gentleman had not extmded
to him the usual courtesy of giving him notice, to pre-
vent his being caught by hasty answers. Although he
(air. IIa•chell) ha.,l been charged with not having
answered the HOB. and Learned Gentleman, the notice

of these questions had actually been given to his lion.
and Learned Friend the Solicitor-General for England
I.le put it to the good feeline, of that House whether that
was just or not? —(Hear, hear.) lie could only at pre-
sent inform the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, nut
having had an opportunity of cansulting the Com-
missioners, that sales had taken place, whether
they were five, or seven, or nine, ho could
not say, but he could say that the statement
might be seen in any of the Irish or English
newspapers. With regard to the orders, they bad
been numerous, but he could not state the precise
number. Thu third question was, whether any sales
had taken place on the terms of paying half the pur-
chase-money. Now he must a4c the Hou. and Learned
Gentleman whether he hal ever read the Bill, because
if he had he would find that there was no such clause
in the Bill. The purchaer was required to pay the
whole of the purchase-money into the Bank of Ireland,
and all he was then at liberty to do was to burrow half
on the security of the title.—(Roars of laughter, and
vociferous cheering from both sides of the House). lag
hoped these answers would be satisfactory to the go).
and Learned Gentleman.
Mr. STUART hoped he would be allowed to explitin.
He gave notice of the questions he intended to ask ef'the
law officer of the Crown who had charge of the Bill.
Finding that that Hon. and Learned Gentleman was
not informed on the subject, he thought it but due to
the Solicit ir-General for Ireland toinforca him of the
questions he had asked. He" begged to assure him that
be meant him no discourtesy whatever. The 13th clause
of the Bill distinctly stated that one-half of the purchase-
money should not ba deemed a debt due from the
purchaser.
Mr. HUME hoped that the progress of a Bill that
was so necessary would not be impeded by the amend-
ment cf the lion. and Learned Gentleman opposite.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL said that the Honourable and
Learned Member had not satisfied the House that he
had read more than the 12th clause of the Bill. The
first clause required the whole amount of the. purchase
money to be paid into the Batik. In consequence of the
whole amount. of the purchase money being required to
he pad under the existing law, property was sold at a
great disadvantage. By that mornings papers they were
informed of a fine estate being sold fur only 61- years'

purchase.
Sir J. WALSH appealed to the candour and fair
dealing of the House not to force so important a measure
on at that advanced prod of the night. It was impos-
sible at that hour to bestow the adequate attention upon
such a subject.
Mr. ANSTEY hoped the Governinent would perse-
vere in urging forward the measure, which wee one of
the best Bills brought forward for Ireland during that
session. The lion. Baronet opposite, who now objected
to this measure, which was to enable more purchasers
to come forward, and thereby to procure for the owner
a higher price for his property in Ireland, had himself
complained last session o! the existing law, by which he
said estates would be sold for an old song.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the House would not occu-
py any more time by the discussion of this question. We
have unfoi tunately got into a custom latterly, when a
Bill was proposed after eleven o'clock, of discussing fir
a considerable time whether or not the Bill should be
introduced. The question Ras a simple ono. If the
house meant to decide that uo Bill should be introduced
after eleven o'clock, we might as well adjourn the House
at that hour. He did not think that that would be a
wise or convenient course.—(Hear, hear.) Let us, how-
ever, not argue the question from eleven to one o'clock.
Mr. DISRAELI, as a general rule, quite agreed with
the Noble Lord. At the same time there were circum-
stances connected with the present measure which should
induce us to modify that opinion. The Noble Lord must
remember that the House had been engaged up to the
present time in the constant discussion of a subject of
a very different character. And as this was a
question of great importance, in respect to which
the Noble Lord behind him (Lord Naas) had
already notified his intention of moving an amendment
to the motion for the second reading, he trusted that it
would not be considered unreasonable if they objected to
proceeding with it at that late hour. Ho was most un•
willing to enter into a series of divisions for the purpose
of preventing the progress of any measure ; but he put
it to the Noble Lord to consider the position in which
the House would be placed if we commenced the debate
now, and if the Noble Lord ne it him were to make his
statement against the passing of. the Bill which he con-
templated making. We should in such a case be kept
here until four o'clock in the morning. That was a
course which he did not think would be fair or conveni-
ent for the House to take. By stopping discussion now
the Government would not succeed in advancing the pro-
gress of the measurr, for that discussion would be taken
upon the next stage of the Bill,-and in all the form and
sustained character as the House would have had on the
second reading of it. This was no hostile movement
got up to prevent the progress of the measure, but the
reasons he had already stated were, ho thought, quite
sufficient to justify a postponement of the present
question. •
Mr. HENLEY hoped the House would not fail to
notice what had been stated by the Hon. and Learned
Solicitor-General for Ireland—namely, that this Bill
was part and parcel of the Encumbered Estates Bill of
last year. These measures proposed to deal rather vio-
lently with property, and it was therefore important
that the present one,
at all events, should be well con-
sidered throe it was passed • into a law, They had al-
ready passed the Judgments Bill this year, which should
also he viewed in connexion with those other Bills. By
tho Judgments Bill they had exempted for the future
land in Ireland from antecedent judgment. The Bill
would simply enable a man to throw over his passive
creditors, and to stand possessed of his estate as if
nothing had happened.—(Hear.) Now could it be ex-
pected that any respect would be had for the large mass
of property in other hands, if
estate through puisne creditors were thus
treated? They had in the newspapers an instance re-
corded of a man who, under the operation of this Act,
bought back his own estate. Under the operation
oftl erefu threesed Bills,to put whethista
s chance would
thatthat
court,ll3anhaanvde
who
cheat his creditors?—(Hear, hear.) If considera-
tion was to be shown to men wh ) threw 20 or 30 per
cent. of their creditors overboard, what would Govern-
ment do for those men who slid not want anything of
the sort, but who wished to act honestly and fairly to
all? He did not think Government were acting fairly
to what he would call the honest part of the community
of Ireland. He was only anxious to call the attention
of the House to the statement made by the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman the Solicitor-General, as to the
reasons why he would not undertake this Bill.
Sir G. GREY said one of two things must be done,
either the Bill must be discussed on its merits, or the
discussion must be postponed. The Hon. Gentleman
(Nlr. Henley) had made a speech on the merits of the
Bill—he should not follow that course, but he would
ask the House not to take the Hon. and Learned Gentle-.
man's'interpretation of the Bill. As the discussion on
the merits was not desired he was willing to postpone it.
Ho must, however, remark that Government did not,
as stated, oppose the wishes of Irish Members in this
matter, for no Irish Member had yet signified any
opinion. If it was the wish of Irish Members, or, in-
, deed, of Honourable Members generally, to enter on
, a _discussion of the principles of the. Bill now, he
should not offer any opposition, though certainly
twelve o'clobk was not the ,best time to commence
such a discussion. If time were lost it was not the
fault of GOvernment, but must be attributed to the
course adopted by the Honourable Member for Newark.
Mr. Me J. O'CONNELL said nothing was more un-
fair than the suggestion of the Hon. Member (Mr. Hen-
ley) as to the intention of the Bill. There was a class
which this. Bill would particularly serve, and that was
the puisne creditors. There was a class which it
would not serve, and that class was the great capi-
talists who hoped to go over to Ireland, buy land at less
than its value, and sell it sot as to make a profit.—(Hear.)
Lord NAAS gave way o make
a Friend, because
he thought the question could to more satisfactorily dis-
cussed by the proposal nude; But lie hoped theliouse
would allow him to put off his statement for the present
until a more eligible opportunity.
Colonel DUNNE was convinced that the Bill, instead
of raising tho value of estates in Ireland, would depress
it, and he was sure that Ito money, as was anticipated,
would be lent on estates.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL would move that the
del ate be'adjourned till Thursday next.
Sir L. O'BRIEN wished an order to bo sent to Ireland
to suspend the operation of the previous Bill, as it had
been proved that an estate had recently been sold for a
year and a half's purchase.
The debate was then adjourned till Thursday next,
MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND).
On the motion for the second reading of this
Lord NA AS objected to the proposition.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said his object in moving the
second reading if the Bill was that be might have an op-
portunity of hearing rerna-ks and objections before he
made his statement. Ile had no wish to press on the
Bill, but he thought it would be adiisable to have the
second reading acceded to et the present time. He would
make a statement with reference to the demerits of the
present system.—(Great interruption.) He would not
go into a long statement respecting the demerits of the
existing system in Ireland, as he was satisfied every one
acquainted with the existing system condemned it. The
present system was unequal and expensive, and he pro-
posed to remedy those defects by a central board and
superintendence. This system was approved of by nearly
every one who was a friend to Ireland, and every one ad-
mitted, to do any practical good, it was necessary to have
a central board. He promised to remedy the evils of the
existing system. The subject for their consideration
was, how they best could husband their resources, and

lessen, if it were possible, the amount of rates collected.
Ile believed that there might be a saving of 20 0001. a
year effected. The present subscriptions, c iuld scarcely
be cage i voluntary. Under the poor-rates not more than
one-half would be paid by the. occupier—the other by
the owners of property, who now paid, or who ought
to pay, subscriptions for such an object. In 184 S,
the sum charged upon the poor-rates fur temporary
lever hospitals was 80,0001. This, however, was not a
mere question of economy—it was a question that in-
volved the first of charities—the attendance and care of
the poor. Various objections were made to the mea-
sure; but they were rather objections to details. He
wished hilly to consult the interests of the medical pro-
fession, of whom he could not speak but in terms of the
highest praise. lie was anxious that the Bill should be
read pro forma, in order that he might introduce several
amendments.
Sir D. NORREYS had wished to save his Right Hon.
Friend the trouble of making. a statement. The Bill
containtd a dangerous principle—that of establishing a
medical board separate from the general administration
of the poor. He thought that all the medical charities
should be transferred to the-puor-law board. He ob-
jected to the establishment of a medical board, as it was
only pandering to the vanity of the medical profession
in Ireland. Why did not the Government exercise the
power they had under the poor-law in establishing dis-
pensaries and fever hospitals?
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON said that there was a gene-
ral opinion that there should be a change in the ma-
negement of medical charities in Ireland. Ile suggested
that his Right Hue. Fiiend should withdraw this Bill,
which was a very objectionable one, and introduce a
new Bill, when they might discuss a Bill upon prineiple.
Lord J. RUSSELL remarked the principle of the
Bill could be discussed afterwards, by having the B:11
now read pro faring. By that means they might dis-
cuss the best manner iu which medical charities might
be managed.
Ater a few words from Mr. F. FRENCH and Lord
BERNARD,
The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed.
The Process and Practice (Ireland) Bill, as amended,
was considered, and the amendments agreed to.
The Indemnity Bill was passed through Committee.
EXTRAMURAL INTERMENTS.

Sir G. GREY rose to move, in pursuance of notice to
that effect, for leave to bring . in a Bill to make better
prov-sion•forAbe interment of the dead in and near the
mat opeliss iT.,119,84t, Hon. Baronet said the House was
i
awe e. that by an Act pissed in the last session of Par-
liatnect power was given to the Board of Health, under
certain circumstances, to inquire into the state of the
burial-grounds in the metropolis and in other large and
populous places in the kingdom; and if the result of that
inquiry showed that the mode of conducting buria's was
prejudicial to the public health, the Board was further
empowered to prepare a scheme, and submit the same
to Parliament, for prohibiting a practice so prejudicial
to the public health, and substituting for it the system
of extramural in terrn ea te. In the exercise of
there powers the Board, in the course of the last
year, instituted extensive inquiries into the state of
the burial-grounds in the metropolis and its neighbour-
hood, and in certain towns of the United Kingdom; and
they had prepared, in pursuance of the further powers
given to them, a scheme, which was embodied in the re-
port that had now been some weeks upon the table of
the House, that scheme being applicable exclusively to
the metropolis and the immediate neighbourhood. The
beard bed considered this important subject in two
points of view—first with rererence to the effects of the
existing practice upon the public health, and next its
effects upon the solemnity and decency of burials. At
that hour of the night (a qaarter to one) he should not
think of stating at length the purport or nature of the
evidence collected by the .Board of Health, and which
formed the basis of the recommendations embodied in
the scheme contained in the report lying upon the table
of the House. That report had attracted mach of the
public attention, and be believed that most Hon. Gentle-
men were aware of the nature and purport of the mass of
felts which had been collected by the Board of health,
and upon which their report was • founded, as well as the
Bill which he had now the honour to ask leave to intro-
duce. [The Right lion. Gentlemen here read a passage
from page 50 of the report, giving a summary of the
facts which came under the notice of die board.
Without entering further into the evidence con-
tained in the report, ho said he would at once pro-
ceed to consider the general recommendations of the
Beard of Health. The substance of those recommenda-
tions was the 'prohibition of interments within the me-
tropolitan districts, and, as a consequence, a complete
change in the practice of interments. After considering
various ways iu which the practice might bo altered,
they recommended the appointment of a commission,
expressly vested with powers fur carrying out this object.
and which powers they then went on to enumerate.
The Bill which he had now to propose was based upon
this report, although it did not follow the recommenda-
tions of the board precisely in all their details. On the
present occasion it would be sufficient if he contented
himself by simply stating the main provisions of the
Bill, reserving matters of smaller importance and of
mere &tail until the Bill hod been printed, and placed
in the hand; of Members. It was proposed in the first
instance, in accordance with the recommendation cif the
board, to form a district to be termed the " Metropolitan
I3urial District," the parishes to be comprised within
which would be enumerated in the schedule ef the Bill.
They constituted the district which was generally known
as the " Registrar-General's District," with the excep-
tion of some outlying parishes, which, on account of
their locality and other circumstances, it was
thought right should not be included. For this
district it was proposed that burial-grounds
should be provided within or without the district
to be placed under the cotitrol and management of the
parties who were to be entrusted with the execution of
the Act. It, was proposed further to give power to these
parties to take any of the cemeteries which had already
been established under Acts of Pirliament in the district,
upon making compensation to the companies to which
they belonged, with a view to shutting up those which,
upon inquiry, should appear unfit to be continued as
places of interment; but with regard to others making
use of them as burial-grounds to be established under
the provisions of this Bill. Every such burial-ground so
to be provided would, like all the great cemeteries hi-
therto established, be divided—one portion being conse-
crated, with a suitable chapel, for the use of members of
the Established Church; the other part being left for in-
terments for persons of other religious denominations.—
(Hear, hear.) Power would also be given for setting
apart any portion of the burial-ground to the use of any
other Christian sect who, upon religious grounds, re-
quired a separate) place of interment. Ater this, powcr
was to be given to the Queen in Council, upon the report
of the persons who would be entrusted with the execu-
tion of the Act, and after due notice, 'to order the' dis-
continuance of all interments in the burial-grounds
end grave-yards within the district. And this pro-
hibition might from tithe. to
.time be extended until
the system of interments should be altogether
discontinued throughout the metropolis, with a
saving of the existing rights in :vaults, but
having regard to the necessary. precautions for
the preservation of the public health. The Bill
then proposed that the inhabitants of the parishes whose
burial-grounds might be closed under the operation of
the Bill should have the same rights of interment in the
new grounds as they bad in the present burial-grounds
within their parishes; and that power should be given,
without the expensive process called the faculty process,
to remove bodies from the old places of interment to the
new burial-grounds. The parties entrusted with the
execution of the Act would also be empowered to pro-
vide houses of reception for the bodies of deceased per-
sons—an arrangement which would be of peculiar be-
nefit to the poor residing in a confined atmosphere and
dearly-crowded dwellings.—(Hear, hear.) One great
practical difficulty in the way of the adoption of a sys-
tem of extramural interment was felt to be, the placing
the poor in the same position with regard to distance as
they were at present. In order to remove this difficulty,
means might be devised and provided for the convey-
ance of bodies to the places of interment, and for con •
ducting funerals in those grounds at specified and mo-
derate rates.—(Hear, hear.) A large portion of the
revenue of the London clergy was at present derived
foam burial fees; and justice obviously required that
compensation should be given both to the clergy and to
the official persons who were connected with the exist-
ing burial-grounds for the . loss of fees which they
would incur by the proposed change of the law. With
regard to the clergy, looking at the large proportion of
their incomes which are composed of those fees, it had
been •thought ,necessary to continue the compensation
to them beyond the existing incumbencies, as in some
parishes the clergy would be left almost without the
means of support ; but power would be given for re-
vising, from time to time, the matter of compensatioe.
With regard to clerks and sextons, and other officers, it
was proposed that compensation should be given to thee
tenure of the respective offices which they held. The
Board of Health, in their report, stated that the re-
ceipts fur the interments in the new burial-grounds
would be ample to cover all. the expenditure to be in-
curred under the Act. But as it would be necessary to
make provision for the immediate purchase of burial-
grounds, and fir other expenditure, before any large
amount was received in the shape of fees, power would
be given to borrow money on the future payments under
the Act, and also upon the security of a rate which they
were to be authorised to levy, and which was not to ex-
ceed the annual amount of Id. in the pound, in the event
of the fees and payments being insufficient for the ex-
penditure. With respect to the parties to be entrusted
with the execution of the Act, the Board of Health
had recommended that a commission should bo specially
constituted for that purpose. There were, however, ob-
vious objections to the creation of a new commission,
unless some indispensable necessity could be shown for
it; and it was thought by her Majesty's Government that
the members of the Board of Health were fully compe-
tent' to the task; and upon the whole, in the first ite
stance, the very best parties for effecting the recomme
dations which they themselves had made. To a ger
extent, also, the existing staff of that board might be
made available for the new Act. It was proposed that,
instead of constituting a new board, one paid member
should be added to the present board; and it was thought
that with this addition, and with the help of such sub-
ordinate officers as might be requisite, that board would
he competent to establish a system of extramural inter-
ments throughout the metropolis.—(Bear, hear.) The
House was aware that the Board of Health had only a
temporary existence, the period for its duration not
being extended beyond August, 1853; and it might
therefore be necessary eventually to continue the opera-
tion of the Bill by some other agency. This circutn-
stance,however,afforded a security that before the powers
of the Board of Health expired the attention of Par-
liament must be called to the working cf this measure,
and-an opportunity would be afforded for correcting any
defects which experience might have discovered in its
operation.: Before he sat down be wished to express the
sense which he entertained of the ability and efficiency
with which the Board of Iletilth had discharged the

—,---
(From the Poses and Proceedings of the House of Commas.
1110NDAr, APRIL 15.
STAMP DUTIES BILL.
(IN THE COMMITTEE.)
Schedule B (Bond in England or Ireland and persona'
bond in Scotland given as a security for the payment of any
definite and certain sum of money not exceeding f 01.) :
Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Duty be
two shillings and sixpence:"—Afterwards, Motion made,
and Question put, " That the Duty be one shilling." The
ComMittee diviled:
MAJORITY—AYES, 164.
Egerton, Sir P. Meagher, Thomas
Ellis, John Mahon, Lord
Esnlyn, Viscount Mandeville4Viscount
Estcourt, .1. IL B. Manners, Lord J.
Fagan, William March, Earl of
Ferrer, James Mast erman, J.
Fiiincr, Sir E. Meux, Sir Henry
Floycr, John • Mitchell, T. A.
Forbes, William Moody, C. A.
Forester, G. C. 3ltindy, William
Forster, Mathew Naas, Lord
Fox, S. L. Neeld, John
Galway, Viscount Newry, Viscount
Goddard, A. L. Norreys, Sir-*D.
Gooch, E. S. O'Brien, Sir Lucius
Gordon, Admiral Ossulton, Lord
Gore, W. R. 0. l'acke, C. W.
Goulburn, Henry Pakington, Sir J.
Granby, Marquis of Paltrier, Bounden
Greened, Gilbert Plowden, IV. 11.
Greene, John Plumptre, J. I'.
Greene, Thomas Rendlesham,',Lorel
One rtisey, Lor.l Renton, John C.
Gwyn, Rowel Roliick, J. A.
Hall, Sir Benjamin Ilushout, Captain
Ilainllton, O.IA. Stu:llor, Jelin
liarris, Captain Salwey, Colonel
Harris, Richard Sandars, George
Hayes,!Sir E. Seymer, Henry Ker
Heald, James Smith, John B.
Ilencage, G. 11. W. Smyth, J. 0.:
Henley, J. W. smythe, George
Henry, Alexander Sotheron, T. 11. S.
Heruert, H. A. Spooner, Richard
Hervey, Lord A. StafT.rd, Augustus
Ileyworth, Lawrence Stanley, E. H.
Hildyard, R. C. St:phensou, Robert
Hodgson, W. N. Stuart, Lord D.
Hotham, Lord Stuart, 11.
Howard, P. 11. Thompson, Alderman
Hudson, G. Tollemache, John
Hume, Joseph Turner, G. J.
Johnstone, Sir J. Verner, Sir W.
Jollitie, Sir W. G. Verney, Sir:ll.
Jones, Captain Vyse, H.
Tier, Richard Waddington, 11. S.
Kershaw, James Walinsley, Sir J.
Lacy,
G. C. Walpole, SI
Legh, G. C. Walsh, Sir .1. B.
Lennox, Lord II G. Walter, John
Lindsay. Colonel Williams, John
Locke, Joseph Yorac, E. T.
Lockhart, W.
Lushington, Charles
Mackenzie, W. F.
31`Neill, Duncan

Aglionby, H. A.
Arbuthmott,•Hugh
Archdall, Captain
Arkwright,
Baillie, H. J.
Bankes, George
Baring, 11. B.
inlii4,trsr,i,nTghtoon, ina3Vis.
Iteckett, W.
Bentinck, Lord 11.
Beresford, William
Bernard, Viscount
Best, John
Blackstone, W. S.
Blair, Stephen.
Illandford, Marquis
Illewitt, Reginald
Boldero, 11. .
Booth, Sir It. G.
Bowles, Admiral
Bramston, T. W.
13recnridge, Richard
Broadley, 11.
Brooke, Lord
Brown, W.
Bruce, C. L. C.
Buck, Lewis W.
Buller, Sir J. Y.
Iturroughes, 11. N.
Carew, W. I'.
Castlere3gh, Vis.
Chandos, Marquis
Chaplin, W. J.
Christopher, R.
Clerk Sir G.
Clifford, 11. M.
Clive, It. 11.
Clive, Henry B.
Cobden, It.
Cocks, T. S.
Cole, H. A.
Colvile, C. It.
Conolly, Thomas
Devereux, J. 1.
D'Eyncourt, C. T.
Disraeli, B.
Dod, J. W.
Duckworth, Sir J.
Duke, Sir James
Duncan, George
buncombe, 0.
Dunculi, John
Dunne, ColonA
East, Sir J.
Edwards, Henry

TELLEES.
Willoughby, Sir II
Mailings, J. IT.

MINORITY—ROES. 185.
Adair, R. A. Grenfell, Charles W. • Palmerston, 'Viscount
AnAey, Thomas C. Grey, Sir George Parker. Jutm
Ashley, Lord Grosvenor, Lord R. Peel, Frederick
Bagshaw, John Grosvenor, Earl Perfect, It.
Baines, M. T. Ilaniner,lSir John Pilkington, James
Baring, Sir F. T. Hardcastle, J. A. power, Dr.
Barnard, E. G. Ilastie,,Alexander Power, Nicholas
Bellew, It. M. Basile, Archibald Vawdon, Colonel
Berkeley, C. L. G. Ilatchcll, John . Rich, Henry
Illackall, S. W. Hawes, B. Romilly, Colonel
Blake, Martin J. Ilayter, W. G. Roanlly, Sir John
Bouverie, E. P. . Headiam, Thorne* Russell, Lord John
Boyle, Colonel Heathcoat, John Russell, Edward S.
Brockman, E. D. Ileneage, Edward Rutherturd, A.
Brotherton, J. Ileyweod, James Scropc, G. P.
Browne, It. D. Hoblibuse, Sir John Seymour, Lord
Buxton, Sir E. . Hobhouse, T. B. Shell, R. L.
Carter, John B. Ilodges, T. L. , Shelburne, Earl of
Cavendish, C. C. - Ilollond, Robert Simeon, John
Cavendish, G. 11. - Howard, C. W. Smith, J. A.
Cavendish, W. G. Howard, Sir It. Somers, J. P.
Childers, J. W. llutt. William 'Somerville, Sir W.
Clay, James Jervis, Sir John Spearman, 11. J.
Cletnents, Charles Keispel, G. T. Talbot, J. 11.
Colebrooke, Sir T. Xing, P. J. Tancred, li. W.
Coke, E. K. Labouchere, Henry Thompson, Colonel
Cowper, W. F. Langston; J. H. Thornely, Thomas
Craig, Sir W. G. Lascelles, W. S. Towneley, John
Da,ryinple, Captain Lewis, George C. Townshend, Captain
Davie, Sir 11. , . Littleton, E. It. Trelatvny, J. S.
Dawson, T. V. Loveden, Pryse Tnthell, 'teary
Duff, James • Afackinnon, W. Vivian, J. 11.
Dundas, Athniral 3PCullagh, W. T. Wall, C. B.
Dundas, Sit' David 2‘r(tregor, John Watkins, Colonel
Ebrington, Lord Matheson, Colonel Wawn, J. T.
Ellice, Edward Manic, Fox Willcox, Brodie
Elliot, J. -E. • Milner, W. /d. Wilson, James
Evans, William - ,Mon.sell, William Wilson, Matthew
Fergus, John ' Morgan N. K. Wood; sir Charles
Ferguson, Col. Morris; David Wood, W. P.
Ferguson, Sir R. Mowatt, Francis Wrightson, W. B.
Fitzpatrick, J. W. Mulgrave, Earl Wyld, James
' Fordyce, A. D. O'Connell, M. J. Wyvill, Marmaduke
FOrteSelle, J. W. Paget, Lord A. TELLEB.S.
Freestun, Colonel Paget, Lord C. Hill, Lord Marcus
Grace, 0. D. Paget, Lord,George Howard, Lord E.
. '

POST-OFFICE SUNDAY DUTIES.
A return has just been issued, giving a history of
the measures recently adopted for the reduction of
Sunday labour in the Post-office, and showing their
results. It appears that the movement on the question
originated at Bath, where, in consequence of a me-
morial which had been presented to the Government,
the Sunday money-order business was abolished on
the 6th of February, 1848—a step, however, which
was followed by a petition, signed by 4,752 persons,
against any further curtailment of accommodation.
Before the lapse of a year the experiment which had
been successful at Bath was carried out generally,
and about October, 1848, inquiries were set on foot to
ascertain the practicability of assimilating the Sunday
deliveries of letters in England b those in Scotland.
Fears wore entertained that the measure would be
met by strong complaints, but it was thought that if
it were accompanied by an arrangement for transmit-
ting the " f ,rward" letters through London on the
Sunday the advantage thus given on the one side
would counterbalance the restriction on the other.
The plan in this shape was accordingly submitted in
February, 1849, sanctioned by Parliament in August,
and carried out on the 28th October last. The addi-
tional force employed in London on Sundays in con-
sequence of this arrangement turns out, notwith-
standing the false reports circulated in every direction
at the time, never to have exceeded the original esti-
mate of 25 persons, who were entirely volunteers,
and it now appears that on the 20th January, owing
to the satisfactory working of the system and the
facilities it gave fur simplifying other arrangemets,t
this force was not only discarded altogether, but i
was found that the labour of the ordinary force of 27
persons was considerably lightened, and that it will
even be possible, by some plans now pending, to re-
duce that number to 15 or 16. Within the last
two years other measures of Sunday relief have
of
been diligently prosecuted, the most imp
these being the establishment of the late
delivery on Saturday nights at a distance of
6 miles round London, whereby, with increased con-
venience to the public, 191 men have been wholly
relieved from Sunday duty ; the diminution of busi-
ness at the provincial offices by the discontinuance of
m
a large number of Sunday mails ; and the disuse of
money pre-payments on Sundays for all inland letters,
so that the offices are now generally closed at 10 in
the morning. On the whole, it seems that the result
of the various alterations patiently carried out by the
Post-office authorities in the midst of the mistaken
hostility directed against them, and without incon-
venience to the public, has been, first, to withdraw
the money-order business on the Sunday from 436
provincial post-offices in England and Wales and 234
offices in Ireland and Scotland ; and secondly, as re-
gards the delivery of letters, to give relief to more
than 6,000 persons, and, on the average, more than
five and a half hours each.— Times.
en-

Mr. FERRAND.—The Leeds latelligencer of Satur-
day says:—" The proposition which Mr. Ferrand made to
the farmers of the Pontefract polling district, that they
should form a 'Farmers' Wool League, is causing great ex-
citement among the farmers of Yorkshire. A requisition
from the farmers, inviting him to meet them in Doncaster on
the2Oth, is in course of signature at that polling district.
Meetings are being arranged for the Beverley polling dis-
trict on the 27th ; for the Malton polling district on the 4th
of May; and it is expected that meetings will take
erby
plhace in
quick succession at Richmond, Snaith, Selby, Wet,
Ripon, Knaresborough, Thirst:, and other agricultural towns
' in this extensive county."
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Professor Holloway —Sir : I beg to acquaint you that your pills have ef-
fected* cure of a disorder in my liver and stomach 'which all the most
eminent of the faculty, at home and all over the continent, had not
been able to effect; nay, not ever the seat
These, wondterful pills win
cure any dieease of the liver or stomach.—Sold (also Holloway's
Ointment) at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, and
IV al inedicino Tailors throughout the olTtlised world,