The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-21 00:00:00

LARCENY SUMMARY JURISDICTION BILL.

Sir JOHN PAKINGTON moved the second reading
of this Bill. One object of the Bill was to extend the
provisions of the Juvenile Offenders' Act. It would be
in the recollection of the House that, when he first in-
troduced that Bill, he drew the distinctionaat 16 years
of age, but in the Select Committee on the Bill the Com-
mittee though he was carrying the distinction too far.
Altwin, were acquainted with the working of this criminal
portion of the law, were aware that all offences committed
by persons under 16 years were always lightly dealt with.
The only change, then, which he desired to effect, was
to reduce the age from 16 to 14. The only other part of
the Bill in which he was particularly interested was
one to which he begged to call the particular attention
of his Hoe. and Learned Friend the Solicitor-General.
His Hon. and Learned Friend would recollect that at
the beginning of last session the subject of punishment
for small offences had been largely discussed, and that it
was then agreed that—without interfering with the
sacred trust of preserving the trial by jury—it would
be better to reduce these offences by immediate punish-
ment. It was acknowledged on all hands that the
course of prosecution which is now followed was in
every way detrimental to the public interests.—(Hear.)
He would deprecate the opposition proposed by the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. MeCullagh),
believing that if he looked into the reports he would find
that the objections which he entertained were all ob-
viated in the details cf the measure.—(Hear, hear.) He
trusted also that the Government would offer no opposi-
tion to the Bill; for they should recollect that this Bill
was simply in accordance with the Juvenile Offenders'
Bill, and merely carried out that Bill to a further extent.
They ought not to punish the counties in the way of
expense for the prosecution of small offences. He
bad himself had ,great experience in the
investigation 4 small offences in th© coal districts, and
he had found that, in the neighbourhood of Dudley, the
criminality of coal-heavers frequently went unpunished
from the expenses likely to be incurred by a prosecu-
tion. Ile did not hesitat3 to say that the coal-owners
frequently lost several tons a-week, whereas, had there
been a summary moans of conviction, some cf those
offences would not have passed unpunished, and the evil
would soon have been concluded. It had been ascer-
tained that although the counties were allowed 401, for
each prosecution, the real expenses were only 20s. for
each case. On these grounds he trusted that there
would be no opposition to the second reading.
iII'CULLAGH said that he should withdraw
his opposition for the present, but should certainly take
the souse cf the House upon the Bill when it was sent
down for Committee. He had a great objection to the
extension of the jurisdiction of the magistrates in crimi-
nal case-.

Affera few words from Sir J. PAKINGTON,

111r.:MILNES said he could not understand the reasons
on which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. M'Cullagh) opposed
this Bill. He could not find from his experience that
they could draw any line between criminals of the ages
of 14 and 16, and he thought the extension which was
proposed in this Bill would be very salutory. His only
objection to this Bill was that it was not summary
enough, and his experience went to show that the more
summary the punishment for such juvenile offenders,
the better it would be.
Mr. NAPIER had received communications from Ire-
land which showed that such a measure as this was ab-
solutely necessary. In many cases he believed the
imprisonment which some criminals underwent before
their trial occurred was a much greater punishment
than the offence deserved. The Learned Gentleman
read some extracts from returns, which he had received
from Ireland. in which it was stited that many persons
coma ittrd for petty offences stealing articles of the
value of a few pence, were often discharged at 30 and 60
miles fcom home.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL fully agreed with
the principle of this Bill. The only difficulty be
saw in it was to fix the sum. He had received
as many recommendations to fix the sum at
51., as at one shilling. This Bill would put
an end to many anomalies which it was intolerable
should remain on the statute book. For instance, a boy
who stole an apple from a tree could be summarily
punished, but if another boy stele au apple from under
the tree he was obliged to bs committed. He should
support the Bill.
Mr. PACKE thought there was no objection to ex-
tending the jurisdiction to 16 instead of 14 years of age.
He quite agreed with the Learned Attorney-General as
to the anomalies cf the law relating to petty larceny, but
he did not think this Bill met the difficulty. The Bill,
therefore, ought to be relbrred to a Select Committee.
Offences ought to be placed upon a clear and defined level,
and until that was done they were only doing mischief
by legislating on the matter. The difficulty in the way of
this Bill would arise in this way:—lt gave the magis-
trates power to adjudicate summarily in the case of petty
offences committed by adults and old offenders, who, in
some districts unknown, might often be dealt with under
the provisions of this Bill, when if they were tried by a
jury, transportation would ha their punishment. While,
therefore, he approved of the Bill as far as it related to
children, he doubted the expediency of opening the door
to the escape of offenders by extending it to adults.
Mr. ROBERT PALMER supported the measure,
knowing from experience that many trumpery cases
were sent to trial under the existing law which ought to
be summarily disposed of. He trusted, too, that it
would be extended to Ireland. It appeared to him that,
with respect to that part of the Bill which extended sum-
mary jurisdiction over persons of sixteen instead of four-
teen years of age, he saw no objection to that. He be-
lieved that many petty offences were overlooked in con-
sequence of the expense and trouble of going before a
more formidable tribunal than two magistrates. That
was an evil which this Bill would tend to correct.

Mr. HENLEY had very considerable doubt with
respect to the Bill after what had fallen from the At-
torney-General. It was quite clear that a very adroit
distinction had been adopted by the Hon. Member for
Droitwich between grand and petty larceny. It was quite
clear they were commencing a system of doing away with
trial by jury. That was a very grave matter, but
it was one which might be discussed hereafter, and the
Hon. Gentleman opposite would act prudently if he did
now divide the House. With regard to the age of the
children that was a very different question. The reason
for the introduction of the Juvenile Offenders' Bill was
to prevent the contamination of young persons in gaol
hefore they were tried. So far as that went he entirely con-
curred. He thought sixteen was a very proper age to
which to extend the summary jurisdiction. He thought
there would be some possible inconvenience in the work-
ing of other parts of the Bill. As to the inconvenience
of turning a man out of gaol, as was suggested by the
Hon. Member for Dublin, that inconvenience would
exist just as much with respect to a man committed
summarily as if committed by a jury.
Mr. P. MILES was of opinion that a great necessity
existed for the adoption of some such measure as this.
He said, that from his experience as a chairman of a
quarter sessions, lasting over a period of sixteen years,
He was sorry that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
would not take the division on the second reading of this
Bill, because they were all acquainted with the details,
and the longer it was delayed the greater would be the
injury to the country.
Mr. VIVIAN said that his name was at the back of
the;Bill, and he only wished to say that the expenses which
had been found to press so heavily on the counties would
be greatly relieved by the operation of this Bill. That
which now cost 124 lOs. would be reduced to 21.
The Bill was then read a second time without a
division.

RACE-RENT
second
RELIEF
BILL.
TENANTS
the
motion
being
put fur th readthigL
Onof this
Bill,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that he did not wish to
oppose the second reading. but he hoped that measures
would be taken to prevent the expenses from falling
upon the counties.
After a few words from Mr. SOTHERON,
Sir H. HALFORD advised that the whole burden
should not be laid on landed property alone, an opinion
in which Mr. Spooner coincided, and suggesting
.that
the Bill should be deferred, but in the meantime the
expense should be thrown on the Consolidated Fund.
Mr. SPOONER agreed with his Hon. Friend in his
opinion of this Bill. He should, however, advise that
the Bill shculd be postponed. He did nctirsee why the
landed interest should bear the expenses of lunatic asy-
lums. He thought that the evils which caused lunacy
were found much oftener in crowded towns than in the
agricultural districts.
After a few words from Sir G. GREY,
Mr. HUME thought, that if the principle of the Hon.
Gentleman opposite was carried out, that the poor-
rates and country-rates should be transferred to the
Consolidated Fund. He thought that no expenditure
ought to be thrown upon the Consolidated Fund
unless the Government had the sole superintendence of
it; the Consolidated Fund had quite sufficient to bear at
present. He protested against such doctrincs being
broached in the House at this time. •

Mr. HENLEY thought that the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down, if he carried out his principle,
would vote for these charges being transferred to the
Consolidated Fund. Not a single farthing could.be laid
out on asylums unless the sanction of the Secretary of
State had been previously obtained.
Mr. HUME said that the Secretary of State had
nothing to do with the details of the plans, but only had
to see that they were adequate.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said thelSecretary of State had
power to control the plans and elevations of both
lunatic asylums and prisons.
Sir G. GREY said the approval of the plans no doubt.
The Bill was then read a second time and ordered to
be committed.