The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-16 00:00:00

the amendment of the Noble Lord, he Ras very

probably pursuing the course which might sooner
or later reduce wages. For though their
legislation applied apparently to women and
children only, yet indirectly it most certainly applied to
adults—(Hear, hear)—and they would render it prac-
tically impoEsible for the mill to go on beyond the time
at which those women and children were employed.—
(Hear, hear.) Then if that were true, and the opera-
tives themselves who sought a ten hours' Bill admitted
such would be the result—the remark which had fallen
from the Hon. Member for Manchester, (Mr. M. Gib-
son) was equally true, that if they adopted the limita-
tion of adult labour with regard to factories, it was not
easy to see where that limitation was to stop. The
question was not now whether they would establish a
principle or not. It had gone too far for this.
For whether the House approved the amendment or the
original Bill, it had equally taken on itself to decide
what number of hours people ought to work during the
day. The question was now really reduced to this—
they had found it necessary to interfere by the pressure
of an overruling necessity, is order to declare what
should be the length of labour to which a certain class
of artisans should be subjected—whether it should be
ten or twelve hours. For his (Lord Howick's) part, then,
he could not help saying that ten hours was as much as
that House ought to allow.—(Loud cheers.) He had
fully felt the force of the observations which
had fallen from the Bight Honourable Baronet (Sir
J. Graham), but on fairly weighing the good and the
evil the balance of evil appeared to him to be in favour
of a twelve hours' Bill, and therefore he must vote against
it. It had been said that if they took this decision with
respect to factory labour they would be called upon to
go further. He (Lord Howick) was not without fear
that such would be the case ; and they must deal with
it when it arose. The origin of the evils which they
were now attempting to remedy was to be found in the
intense competition which prevailed ; and he agreed with
the Hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson)
that they would not entirely remove those evils
unless they diminished this competition of labour and
capital, by enlarging the field for employment.—
(Hear, hear.) This was only to be effected by breaking
down those artificial barriers and restrictions by which
labour and capital were now hedged in and confined, and
unless they were prepared to do this, they must be pre-
pared to see that competition become greater and greater.
He feared they could not expect that Parliament would
do this at present, though ultimately he was satisfied
this would be the case.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore he
for one would take the .only step which could be
applied, not that he looked upon it as approach-
ing to an effectual remedy ' • but that until such
could be obtained, he felt bound to assist in any measure
by which it might be hoped to palliate the evil. It cer-
tainly did appear to him that in the absence of a real
remedy, they should at least adopt such checks as were
in their power ; and in that view it was that he was pre-
pared to vote for the measure of the Noble Lord (Ash-
ley) in preference to that of -the Government.—(Hear.)
At the same time he must say that this and every other
discussion on the question had made him feel how in-
competent the House was advantageously to deal
with subjects of that nature.—(Hear, hear.) It
was, he thought deserving the consideration -of
gentlemen on both sides of the House, whether they
could not meet the difficulty of introducing regulations
for the guidance of certain trades, by contriving some
means by which the parties themselves interested in
those trades might be brought together, and by which
their arrangements might be enforced. It appeared to
him (Lord Howick) they might consider whether
the great trades might not be organised, so that the
interests of both master and man might be represented
each by its own class, and thus regulations be
made, by mutual understanding of the two
classes, which it appeared to him that Parlia-
ment was unable to do with anything like advantage.
He was the more impressed with this idea when he saw
the way in which the trades' unions had worked. He
admitted that, in many eases, those unions were dan-
gerous bodies. They had, in fact, flourished and exer-
cised great powers in opposition to the law, but, looking
at the manner in which they had maintained them-
selves, and had exercised their power, he could not but
conclude that they had originated from a necessity for
organisation which was felt by the trades themselves—
(Hear, hear)—and if they were so organised, would it
not be a great advantage to have them, instead of, as
at present, acting as bodies unrecognised by the law, and
frequently exercising their powers by intimidation
—would it not be, he repeated, a great ad-
vantage to see them recognised by the law, and
exercising powers over which, not the working classes
only, but the employers also, should have some powers
of control ?—(Hear, hear.) Such institutions might
afford useful assistance in enforcing the observance of

such regulations as those which they were now called on
to adopt. He admitted that if the Bill passed they would
be establishing a principle for the future regulation of
factories, and of other trades, which they must be pre-
pared to carry further; and he trusted that those gen-
tleman who were more able to come to a practical con-
clusion on this subject than he was, would endeavour to
devise some means by which they might be enabled to
meet the difficulties of this question.—(Cheers.).
Lord SANDON would not enter into any details on this
question. On one point, however, he would observe. Hon.
Gentlemen opposite had no right to say that the existence of
the corn-laws had rendered it necessary to legislate upon this
subject, for in the countries in which no corn-laws existed, or
at least where none existed for any practical purpose—in Russia
and the United States, for instance—they were as much com-
pelled to protect the labouring population by enactments of
this nature as they were in this country. This question
had been brought before the House before the corn-laws
were in existence. The late Sir Robert Peel had
called the attention of the House to this subject in the year
1815, either before the corn-law had passed, or so immedi-
ately afterwards that it could not have produced any effect;
therefore, whether the corn-laws were right or wrong, it was
impossible for Hon, Gentlemen opposite to contend that the
necessity for resorting to legislation on this subject—that all the
evils of which they complained were caused by the want of a
free trade in corn. He agreed in the views of his Noble Friend
the Member for South Lancashire, and he had every expectation
and hope that their legislation on this subject would be successful.
In fact, the principle was already in operation in many of the
manufacturing districts. In Leeds they had never worked
more than eleven hours, while their neighbours were working
twelve hours, and, notwithstanding the intensity of the compe-
tition, they had never found any necessity for resorting to
twelve hours' labour. Surely, if they were able to do this, it
could not be injurious to others to insist upon them not working
their labourers to a greater extent ? He believed that this
measure would tend to equalise the employment of labour, and
to mitigate the power of machinery. If this Bill were passed, it
would no longer in the power of manufacturers to execute in
six weeks that which it ought to take six months in doing.
They would not be able to execute a large order at once, and
let their factories remain idle (luring the rest of the year. By
the operation of the Bill the demand for labour would be spread
over the whole year. He admitted that it might produce some
effect upon wages, but he esteemed something more highly
than wages, and he believed that persons with 12s. a week,
provided the hours were comfortable—having, consequently,
no temptation to wander into a public-house—would be far
better off than they would be with 15s. week under the
present system. They would be better fed, better clothed,
and more moral, if they had less labour and only 12e. a
week, than they would be with 169. a week, if they
were overworked. He had heard it stated that they
would, if they consented to this measure, be obliged to carry
the principle further. •But that which they now wanted to
establish in the factories, was already the custom of the country
in all other trades. The manufacturers might taunt the agri-
cultural employers that their labourers were not better fed or
better clothed, but at any rate they were not overworked. If
during the pressure of harvest women and children were em-
ployed in the fields, they went to their labour some hours after
the men, and they were relieved frum work some time
before them. The usual hours of labour, except in
harvest time, were from six in the morning till six at night,
and the same wore the hours of employment in other trades.
If it should have the effect of limiting the hours of adult la-
bour he should not be sorry for it ; and he believed that the
manufacturers would be benefited rather than injured by
making this a ten hours' Bill. He was aware that apprehen-
sions were entertained on the subj Let. Parties interested in
any measure always entertained exit gerated apprehensions. In
dealing with the tariff thee had had to combat the exaggerated
apprehensions of parties who believed their interests would be
affected. Those apprehensions were, he admitted, honestly
entertained, but still they were exaggerated. It would be
better at once to come to a final settlement of the question than
to subject themselves to having it raade again a subject of agi-
tation by the labouring population, who were too high-spirited,
too sensible, and too well acquainted with their condition to
suffer their wives and their children to be longer degraded.
He was prepared to vote with his Noble Friend the Member
for Dorsetshire for a ten hours' Bill, as the measure more
likely to put a stop to the agitation than leaving the question
unsettled.—(Hear. )
Mr. BRIGHT would not have trespassed on the House
again after the great length at which he had addressed them
the other night, but, being intimately connected with the
branch of industry which this measure was calculated to affect,
and having passed all his life among the population who would
be affected by this Bill, he hoped the House would admit that
he haksome claim to be heard on the subject. He had listened
to the speech of the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire,
with surprise. The Noble Lord had made the same speech, or
something very much like it, upon a former occasion, and he
(Mr. Bright) had not supposed that any change had taken
place in the Noble Lord's opinions. He thought the Noble
Lord had taken a one-sided view—an unjust view—not inten-
tionally perhaps but a view which was not borne out by the
facts—a view which did not correspond with the Factory In-
spector's Report—a view which if it influenced the deeision of
that House, would be most prejudicial to that very class which
the Noble Lord intended to serve. The Right Hon. Baronet,
the Secretary for the Home Department, who was, he pre-
sumed, the promoter of that Bill in that House, should,
he thought, in his speech have given some reason why a new
Factory Bill was introduced at all. He confessed he was un-
able to discover any reason why the Factory Bill now
in operation had failed. He was aware that the Inspectors
had said that it could not be fully carried out.
The only reason why the present Act could not be carried out
was because it could not possibly be applied to a trade so ex-
tensive and intricate as that to which it applied. He was not
one that would venture to say that the manufacturing districts
of this country were a paradise. He believed that there were
in those district evils, very great and serious evils, and he had
been no party to their concealment. But whatever evils did
exist, he maintained that they were evils referable to other
causes than the existence of the factories and long chimneys.
Most of the statements which had been made that night at the
table, by the IN oble Lord ( Ashley), might he just as
applicable if read with respect to Birmingham, or
this Metropolis, or the northern districts of the country.
But in a population so large as that of Lancashire and York-
shire, where towns were so numerous as almost to touch each
other, all these evils were more observable than in a popula-
tion less densely crowded together. He would prove, from docu-
ments at least as worthy the attention of the House as those
which had been read by the Noble Lord, that what the Noble
Lord had stated was not the truth with respect to the state of

the manufacturing districts. Every Honou• able Gentleman
would recollect that a very large proportion of the authorities

which the Noble Lord had quoted gave neither dates nor
names, but he intended to give in most cases the dates
and in all cases the names; and he thought that no lion.
Meinbcr would deny that the authorities he should quote would
be worthy of attention. lie would go over the ground of com-
plaint of the Noble Lord, although at the risk of being tedious,
but considering that for two hours and a quarter they had
listened with the utmost possible attention to the charges of the
Noble Lord, he therefore thought that he had a right, con-
nected as he was with that population, and with those districts'
to claim the attention of that House to the statements which he
should offer to the House as counter-statements to those of the
Noble Lord. And, first of all, with respect. to the health o
the persons employed in . the cotton trade. Mr. Har-
rison, who was the Inspecting Surgeon for Preston,
said that he found the average amount sickness, among the
children he had examined, was four days each, and that that
sickness was not generally caused by factory labour. He said
he was not a little surprised to find so few children suffering
from accidents which hail been cattsNi by machinery. Con-
sidering the protection which was given in the factories he
expected that accidents would he of less frequent occurrence
than they had hitherto been. He said that he had examined
1,630 children, and not one of them was deformed. Now
this was the statement of the inspecting surgeon of one

of the districts to which the Noble Lord had referred.

The Factory Inspector's Report of 1634 confirmed Mr. Ilarri-
son's view with respect to the effects of factory labour. lie (Mr.
Bright) did not see why that report was not just as good evi-
dence now as it was in 1634, considering the improvement with
respect to the management of factories in the North of England.
That report stated that factory labour was not injurions, to
health and longevity compared with other employment. Mr.
Sanders, a factory inspector, said, " it appears in evi-

deuce- that of all employments to which children are sub-
ject, that carried on in factories is among
_the least

[abo.rious, and the least unwholesome." Mr.—Horner, in

July, 1834, in his report, said it was gratifying to
be able to state that he had not had a single complaint laid
before him, either on the part of masters against servants, or
servants against masters ; nor had he seen or heard of an in-
stance of injury to health arising from factory employment.
Mr. Harr son, on the 24th July, 1834, in speaking of the em-
ployment of children, said that the eight hours which the chil-
dren passed in the factories were passed more beneficially to
themselves than if they were at home. Now there were trides
in this metropolis, to which the Noble Lord had adverted, the
employment in which was most detrimental to health.—
( Hear, bear.) He (Mr. Bright) had some extracts
from a report which had been made respecting
the condition of the persons employed, and he woisld
read one or two of them to the House. It was suppeted that
15,000 young women were employed as milliners in London.
The report stated these young persons were employed about
four months in the year, or during the fashionable season.
Their regular hours of work were 15 in number, but were
often extended to 18. In many establishments the hours of
working during the season were unlimited, the young women
getting six, sometimes four, and three, and occasionally only
two hours allowed for sleep out of the 24, and very frequently
they were compelled to work all night. The Sub-Inspector
described the labour of these young women as quite unparal-
leled in the history of manufacturing pursuits. Sir James
Clark, the eminent physician, in his evidence, said that
this system had the most pernicious effect on the health of
the young women. As he ( Mr. Bright) was coming down to the
House that afternoon a gentleman placed in his hand an ac-
count of a fact which had come under his knowledge within

the last few days, as to a girl, only seventeen years of age, with
whom 401. was paid to a dressmaker at the west-end of the
town as a premium for three years' apprenticeship. From
Friday four weeks until Friday last she had little more than
four hours' rest out of the twenty-four. On Sunday week she
worked from two o'clock on Saturday morning until Sunday
morning at eight o'clock—a period of thirty hours—without
any rest. The gentleman who had care of the girl, and who
placed her in the situation, fetched her back, on account
of excessive cruelty ; and this was not at all unusual. If
he were to state the party for whom this particular dress was
made, at which this unfortunate creature worked for thirty
hours without any cessation, and even on the Sabbath, it must
cause great pain and astonishment elsewhere, although the in-
dividual in question was by no means cognisant of the fact.
That was something worse than factory labour--there was
something worse than working twenty-two or twenty-four
hours. The same circumstances that produced this misery
were the cause of the distress of the labouring population of the
kingdom. All these evils came from absolute want. Did
they did not hear of actual starvation? And the House
passing a clause in any Act in the same direction was
nothing more than plastering the sores which their own
legislation had created, instead of going to the root of the evils—
evils which some of her Majesty's Ministers knew full well the
cause of as well as the majority of the Hon. Members of that House.
The next question to which the Noble Lord had adverted was
that of accident. The Noble Lord drew a most deplorable pic-
ture of the loss of life in the manufacturing districts. On this
subject the Noble Lord had made gross misstatements. The
Noble Lord mentioned Mr. Greg's name; now he would read
an extract from Mr. Greg's letter, which he had received the

other day, with reference to his own establishment. He said—
" It is difficult to believe how this opinion can be so prevalent
that accidents are of such frequent occurrence in mills as to
justify the special interference of the Legislature; why it is
not only not the fact, but the very reverse oT everybody's ex-
perience. In our own mill which has now existed for
seventy years, and in which four hundred hands are em-
ployed, there never was bet one limb lost, and that was
during play. Not one person's life was lost inside the mill,
while no less than four fatal accidents have occurred within

20 yards of the mill during a shorter period. Why, the carter
is exposed to more danger than 500 factory men. I hold a
farm in Hertfordshire. I had not it in my possession more
than two years when a carter was killed. In my two farms
there have been more fatal accidents in three years than in the
mill during all my experience." The Noble Lord said ho would
bring documents from infirmaries and dispensaries. He wished
the Noble Lord to bear in mind that these dispensary returns
were most fallacipus guides in this point, because they did not
state how the accidents occurred, but who the men were who
met with the accidents. Mr. Greg said that two persons
had worked for him ; that they had a quarrel in a public-
house, and each man had a leg broken. These poor fellows
were taken to the infirmary, and the entry was "Two
factory hands--broken legs," although machinery had no
more to do with the accidents than the Noble Lord himself.
He had also received a communication from Mr. W. 11.
Greg, brother tol the gentleman last-named, in confirmation
of the document already quoted. Only two fatal accidents had
occurred in this factory during seven years. One of these
was his carter, who was run over on the high road. The
other was drowned in the pond at the rear of his mill. In
truth; factory labourers were less liable to accidents than any
others. Forty people had been killed in the mines last
year, and there were more lives lost. in the Governmeut
powder-mills at Waltham than at all the factories in Stock-
port and its neighbourhood for two years. Another mill-
owner at Bolton stated, in a letter to him (Mr. Bright), that
for four years no fatal accident had occurred in his mill, and
only one young man had received such an injury in the hand
that the member was obliged to be amputated.
He had received another communication from Mr.
Samuel Ashton, a very large manufacturer. From
his statement it appeared that from 1519 to 1630, 400
hands were employed ; from 1830 to 1851, 900 hands, and
from 1835 to 1544, 1,200 hands ; and yet from 1819 to 1844.
there was not a single fatal accident in his manufactory. With
another spinner who, from 1812 to 1844, had employed from
300 to 400 labourers, no fatal accident had occurred. By Mr.
Ashton, who had an interview that day with the Secretary of
State far the Home Department, he was informed that he
had employed for thirty years from 400 to 1,400 men, and
only two fatal accidents had occurred—one to an overlooker,
who did net take proper care of himself—the other death was
so mysterious and so like self-destruction that it could not be
called an accident. Another letter from a manufacturer who
had employed 560 from 1824 to 1844, had only one fatal acci-
dent. Another manufacturer stated that no fatal accident had oc-
curred in his mill, but one carter connected with the establishment
had lost his life by accident during thirty.five years. He could
bring statements from every district of the cotton trade to dis-
prove the statements of the Noble Lord. Was it not trifling
with the House—was it not unworthy of the Legislature—was
it not trifling with the country—to waste the time of the
House in passing Acts of Parliament, appointing public pro-
secutors to proceed against manufacturers on the supposition
that accidents had occurred, which never took place, and which
were never likely to take place ? He had returns from Stock-
port and Manchester—the coroners' returns. They stated
that, during the whole year—from the 11th of February, 1842,
to the 11th of February, 1843—there was no one person killed
by anything connected with shafts in mills, and only two per-
sons
iby machinery in factories. When they considered
all the mills in that enormous district, and the scores of
thousands employed, and that only two lives were lost, was it
not absurd to pass Acts of Parliament to prevent the re-
occurrence of accidents? Why, there were five carters killed
for one • factory labourer. The reports from Stockport
were still more decisive. From February, 1842, to February,
1843, there was no person killed by machinery, although that
district included twenty-six townships. He thought, after
these statements, no Hon. Member would leave the House
under the impression that accidents were inure common in
manufacturing than in other districts. It was manifest that
the labourers in the manufacturing districts received higher
wages than any other class of labourers ; therefore it was
absurd for the Noble Lord to speak of the cruelty _
of the millowners towards their employc's—their labourers were
too well off, and too independent to submit to cruelty. Their
position enabled them to cope with the resistance of their
masters. As to the morality of the factory people, he could
cite one or two authorities to which even the Noble Lord
would pay deference. The whole of his statements were most
calumnious.—( Order, order "from the Mini,terial benches. )
The Noble Lord had introduced some such statements. He
had read but little about the state of education in the manufac-
turing districts, or the religious instruction which prevailed in
Leeds ; but in that town there was a larger proportion of free
sittings in the churches and chapels, and all of which were
better filled, than in the whole of Westminster and the Metro-
polis. Again the schools and chapels had proportionately in-
creased, much more than the population, and that was a proof
that both religion and education were progressing and not re-
trograding. He could afford many proofs to the Noble Lord
of the fallacy of his statement, if he (Mr. Bright) were not
unwilling to detain the House, from communications which
had been made to him without any application on his part.
However, he felt bound to trespass on them for a short time.
In a large establishment between Bolton and Blackburn, out
of 1,352 hands employed in the mill, the whole of them could
read and write, and a majority who could do so well. He as-
serted distinctly, and without fear of contradiction, that the ma-
nufacturers of Lancashire and the nortle of England had done more
for the education of the children of their dependents than all of
the landed proprietors who now sought to throw obloquy upon
the characters of the manufacturers of the north. He should
particularly call the attention of the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for Dorset to a letter from a manufacturer at Staley-
bridge, which described a meeting, the objects of which were to
promote education. The meeting was composed of members
belonging to the different Independent congregations of that
town, and at it 2,000/. was subscribed. Out of this sum the
operatives subscribed no less than 250/. He challenged any
/Noble Lord or Hon. Gentleman to show a parallel ep.se to this
which occurred in any agricultural county, and in which the
operatives or labourer s entered into such a subscription for the
purpose of promoting the objects of education. He thought
Mr. Horner had made a strange mistake, and done much in-
justice to many in his report, and that he was also assisted,
and attempted to be borne out in that mistake by a clergy-
man of the Established Church. Neither of those parties
had made the slightest allusion to the Dissenters, who were
most numerous in that town.—( Some interruption here oc-
curred in consequence of cries of " Time, time" from the Tory
benches.) He could state, on the authority of the Messrs.
Chambers, the well-known publishers of Chambers' Journal,
that its circulation amounted to 85,000 a week, out of which
25,000 were circulated in Lancashire, while perhaps they had not
a circulation of fifty for their publication in Hampshire. It was
in Lancashire, that the London and Edinburgh publishers found
the most circulation for all the works which emanated from
their press. He should be very sorry to attempt to conceal the
sufferings of the population in the factory districts. Indeed,
he came to London before he had the honour of a seat in that
House, to impress upon her Majesty's Government the extreme
misery which pervaded certain districts. But still he should
assert that taking the whole island, and considering the various
fluctuations which tended to depress all classes, that the sate of
wages and the physical comforts of the manufacturing classes
were higher than those of any other trade or occupation in this
country, and he was prepared to establish this assertion.
—(Cries of " Time, time," and " Question," from the Mi.

nisterial benches.) Ho should state a few facts in support, of
this assertion.—(Renewed cries of " Question.") He wouid
state these facts, and although he should not publicly mention
the names of those parties, yet he should give them in private
to any Hon. Gentleman. If all the statements of the Noble
Lord were true, they would justify any course of legialation ;
but lie denied their truth. He bad a letter from Bolton from

one manufacturer, which proved that the proportion of females
in his mill was in the ratio of 131 men to 59 females, and that
after the age of 21, the greater number of fe-
males went home to attend to their domestic duties.

In the whole of that establishment there were not three mar-

vied women employed, though seven or-eight hundred persons
were engaged in it. He had another case of an establishment
about ten miles north of where he lived, and the same results

were observable there. It employed 3:12----h;n7l;;;Ta;erag; -
wages of 9s. 61zd. per week ; there were 32 cottages on the
place, each having six inmates, the average income of each
family being 11. 13s. a week. None of the heads of
there families had ever received any parish relief, except in
the case of one nidow who was injured by the burning of the mill.

II the county of Dorset, the Noble Lord must kno.W that one-
eighth of the whole population—not of the labouring classes
only—but of the aristocracy, the clergy, the bankers, the
traders—one-eighth of the whole population had been in the
receipt of parochial relief—of the labourers one-sixth had
been relieved by the parish. In the case of another establish-
ment, the average weekly earnings of each family were 455. a
week, and the annual average income of the 154 families em-
ployed in it was 1171. is. 9d. The Hon. Member for Man-
chester had said that those who had migrated from the
agricultural districts to the manufacturing, had had no
reason to repent their change. Ile would state one case,
and if the 'Memtiers for Suffolk were present he would advise
them, when they next met their constituents, to explain it to
them. The man was an agricultural labourer in Suffolk, earn-
ing himself Ss. per week ; his eldest son, 2s. a week ; and
the next, a boy of about twelve years of age, Is. a week ; ho
had ten children and a wife; they had from the parish an al-
lowance of a peck of flour per week, value Is. 4d., mak-
ing 12s. 4d. per week for the whole family. That family
had increases! since he went into Lancashire by one ; he had
now eleven children, and was earning 555. a week, or ss. a-head
for the family. There was another case of a man who came from
Buckingham-hire, who afterwards went back to see his friends,

but on being asked Low he should like to return altogether,
said the people in Buckinghamshire worked so hard, and lived

. .
so badly, he infinitely pre'ierred remaining where he was. lie
thought he had said enough—(lronical cheers from the Tory
benches)—apparently two much—(Renewed cheers)—for
Hon. Members who were anxious to hear only one side of this
important case, and many of whom had not heard even that.
—( Cheers.) He admitted that, notwithstanding all this, there
were great evils in these d stricts ; many persons were still out
of employment, and the fluctuations of trade produced great
calamities there. It was for the House to consider

whether it was not implicated in some measures that

might have produced those fluctuations. He was not about to
charge the Noble Lord with anything he might wish to repel.
He admitted, from his speech to-night, that he had no right
to suppose but that the Noble Lord was perfectly honest in the
view he took of the manufacturing districts. But he must say
he thought the Noble Lord, in looking at the manufacturing
districts, turned his telescope the right way, and Lrought all
the evils near, and made them very distinct. But when he

looked to the agricultural district he came from, he turned the
telescope the other way—all the evils were thrown to a dis-
tance, and brought down to the smallest dimensions. He (Mr.
Bright) believed that the amendment that had taken place in
the manufacturing districts of the north of England, since the
time when the respected father of the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head of the Government was engaged in the manufac-
turing business, had not been the consequence of any legislative
interference, but. had been caused by the growing intelligence
of the public mind. If they looked at schools, lunatic asylums,
or other establishments, they would find that the inmates were
better treated now, and with more humanity, than they were
in the time of their fathers. From this arose the improve-
ments which took place in the manufacturing districts of the
north of England. He did not charge the Noble Lord with
any malice towards the manufacturers. He did not conceive
that the Noble Lord could have any inducement to harbour
such a feeling ; but he believed the Noble Lord was as com-
pletely deluded by the persons he was connected with as he
possibly could be. He would not obtain much credit from the
manufacturers of Lancashire till he had obtained his informa-

tion from more respectable and trustworthy persons
than those whom he had employed. He ( Mr.
Bright) well knew the characters from whom
his information was obtained. There were two books dedicated

to the Noble Lord, one was " A Description of the Experi-
ences and Sufferings of William Dodd, once a Factory La-
bourer, and now a Poor Cripple ;" the other was called
" Facts Illustrative of the Factory System," in letters to the
Noble Lord by the said William Dodd. He would not enter
into his statements. It was not necessary for hire to do so, for a
very large proportion of his statements was utterly false, and
the rest were grossly and malignantly exaggerated. He says
that " at the zge of 3'.1 he was done up." That was the phrase.
The fact was that he was compelled to leave the factory on
account of his gross immorality. He (Mr. Bright) had an
his pocket a letter from this person, in which he stated that
the Noble Lord used him as long as he could get anything out
of him, and then cast him off when no further use could be
made of him. He also stated that the Noble Lord gave him
dinners at his own house, and showed him to his visitors as the
crippled factory man ; and that, when he wrote to the Noble
Lord for the balance of an account, the Noble Lord replied by
reminding him of the many dinners he gave him, and of the
usage he gave him as an object of charity.—( Loud cries of
" Oh.") He (Mr. Bright) believed the Noble Lord was
perfectly honest, but he ought to take care to obtain his in-
formation from a more respectable and trustworthy quarter.
He would not go further into the subject.—( Cries of " Hear,
hear" from the Minis erial benches.) There were 1,600,000
inhabitants in Lancashire, 900,000 of whom were employed.
—( Hear, hear.) This was mere than could be said of any
district of equal extent in the world.—( Hear, hear.) He
admitted that the hours of working, for men, women, and chil-
dren, were longer than was desirable. But this need
not have been so had not the wealth of the country
been so unfairly distributed, and the people so much burdened
with taxation imposed on them by the party opposite.
This fell heaviest on those who were connected with trade.
From 50 to 100 per cent. of the value was imposed on the im-
portation of raw cotton. The firm with which he was con-
nected paid 75 per cent. and five-sixths of the quantity im-
ported was re-exported without a drawback.—(Hear, hear.)
He had paid 1,0001. upon the bricks which formed his factory,
while there was no duty on those used for agricultural pur-
poses.—( Hear, hear. )They took away a portion of the bread,
and put their hand into the sugar bain, of every poor man.—
( Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") tinder these
circumstances, it was no wonder that there should be an ex-
cessive competition, when the people fought for their
very existence.—( Hear, hear.) He had heard the Right
Hon. Baronet, a few sessions ago, when he sat on this side of
the House, and was hungering for the opposite side, deliver a
peroration which was the most disgraceful he had ever heard.
—( Loud cries of " Oh, oh," " Order, order," and " Chair,
chair.") If the Right Hon. Baronet believed what he said he
was no doubt right in speaking as he had done, but, contrasted
with what he had said that night with respect
to the manufacturing districts, no two things could
possibly be uttered which were more opposite in their
tendencies. The Government might pass or reject that clause
for ten hours as they chose. He hoped they would give holi-
days to the operatives so as that their health might not suffer ;
but now, when, the manufacturing interests were only just re-
covering from the eff.cts of the distress under which they were
lately labouring, if they passed that measure, they might be as-
sured that the next session of Parliament would not pass over
without their being called upon to repeal it. He should vote
for the Bill as it was originally introduced.
Lord ASHLEY thought he had some right to make a few
observations on the speech of the Hon. Gentleman who had
just sat down. The charge which the Hon. Gentleman had
insinuated against him called for some observation. He (Lord
Ashley) threw himself upon the indulgence and protection of
the House, and he requested all the gentleman he saw around
him to exercise their influence in making the Hon. Member
for Durham pursue his charge and state his case.—(Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.)
Mr. BRIGHT asked what was the charge the Noble Lord
meant ?—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") He had told the Noble Lord
the instruments with which he carried on his operations in Lan-
cashire were not worthy of his cause nor of him. He had
told the Noble Lord, that, he believed he had been misledby
that man, and he was prepared to prove that those gentlemen
were of a character whose evidence he would not take with re-
spect to agriculture, and the Noble Lord ought not to take it
with respect to manufactures.—( Cries of " Oh, oh," mingled
with cheers and expressions of disapprobation.)
Lord ASHLEY—No charge ! No charge of unpaid ba-
lances ! No wilfully premeditated parade of cripples ! If the
Hon. Member said he had made no charge—if before the
assembled Commons of England, he was prepared to assert
that he made no charge, then he (Lord Ashley) could
assure the Hon. Gentleman, with infinite satisfaction, that
that he would let the matter rest where it was. Those
who heard the Hon. Gentleman could best understand whether
a charge had been made—those who heard the Hon. Gentle-
man could best tell whether that charge had been maintained.
—(Ministerial cheers.) But now he would appeal to the House.
Had he ( Lord Ashley), in the course of the long speech that
the House had indulged him in hearing from him—had he said
any one thing calculated to cause personal ill-feeling, or uttered
one sentence that could exasperate a single individual, or thrown
into the discussion of this great matter a sentiment or expression
that ought not to be found in treating of so sacred a subject?
If the Hon. Gentleman thought that that was the way in which
he could maintain his own cause, he (Lord Ashley) must say
he was grieved for it, because he thought it was not suited to
the dignity of the assembly in which they sat, nor suited to
the dignity of the honourable Society to which the Hon. Gen-
tleman belonged.—( Ironical cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT raid the Noble Lord was entirely mistaken if
he supposed that he (Mr. Bright) should judge of the Noble
Lord's character by the man whom he told him not to trust.
Now he did tell the Noble Lord plainly, that letters from that
individual, stating what he (Mr. Bright) had stated, were now
in his hand.—(Cries of " Read, read.") He would hand the
letters with pleasure to the Noble Lord.—(Cries of " Read,"
and considerable confusion). And further he would
tell the Noble Lord that that individual had
offered for a sum of money to an intimate
friend of his (Mr. Bright) a large number of other letters,
which that friend of his was too fastidious to lay hold of ;
and he further told the Noble Lord not to have anything mere
to do with that man. He acknowledged that the Noble Lord
had honest convictions upon the question; but be repeated,
that the instrument with which he worked was not worthy of
him or his real benevolence. —( Cries of " Read," " Hear, hear,"
and considerable confusion, during which the Honour-
able Gentleman in vain endeavoured to get a hearing.) The
writer of the letter proceeded, to state, that having strained
at a gnat he would not swallow a camel.—(Laughter.) He had
never received the wages to which he was entitled. He had
been instructed to go down to Turton, and to get what
evidence he could. At his own expense he treated
the people with beer, and, in his necessity, he was
compelled to write to Lord Ashley to request a remittance.—
(Laughter.) Mind (said Mr. Bright), Ido not believe one
word of this man's statement.—(Cheers and laughter.) Dodd
went on to say that he received a very angry letter from Lord
Ashley. (Cheers and laughter.) He (Dodd) had
been made a foul of by the party, but, if he were
at liberty, " he could a tale unfold."—( Great laughter.)
lie (Mr. Bright) never spoke of the Noble Lord but in terms
of respect, and with a full acknowledgment of the benevolence
of his motives.—(oh, oh, and cheers.) He believed that the
Noble Lord wished as he wished, that all information upon this
subject should be derived from persons who could be relied on.
—( Hear, hear.) He stated these facts for the purpose of giving
the Noble Lord an opportunity of rebutting the statements.
Lord ASHLEY said it was perfectly true that he had re-
ceived letters from the person referred to. But that person
had never dined at his table.—(Laughter.) He had come to
his house, and was perhaps received with hospitality—but it
was by the servants.—( Hear, and laughter.) He agreed.
however, with the Hon. Member that Dodd was a person upon
whom no reliance could be placed.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARBURTON (who rose amidst loud cries of " Ad-
journ") said that he thought the matter was too important to
be disposed of at that hour, and he should, therefore, move that
the Chairman should report progress and ask leave to sit again.
The motion was carried without opposition, and the House
resumed.
In reply to a question from Captain FECHELL,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he would bring on the New
Poor-law on Friday next.
The House then adjourned at One o'Cioek.