The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-14 00:00:00

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMEXT;LLIL---- •
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HOU SE OF LOR DS, Feb. 13.
Charleslaining of
Lord LmliiTierT,ELTON presented a etition from the Rev.
s of the Tithe
Commutation Act, as injurious to the clergy.
EARL DUNDONALD'S INVENTIONS.
Lcrd BROUGHAM gave notice that he should on Thurs-
i
day next bring under the consideration of their Lordship the
inventions of a Noble Friend of his, Earl Dundonald.
The Noble Earl wished to represent to the House the great
expense he had been put to in perfecting these inventions.
OATHS OF ROMAN CATHOLICS.
Lord STOURTON gave notice that on the day most conve-
nient to their Lordships, either on Friday or Monday, he pur-
posed to bring hefore their Lordships the construction of the
Roman Catholic oath, and he stated to their Lordships what he
conceived to be the fair and honest meaning and construction of
that oath. He trusted he should not trespass too long on their
Lordships' time if he was permitted for a few moments to call
their attention to some circumstances connected with that oath.
He did not at all mean to try to influence or act upon that
r opinion of their Lordships; but still he should say that he
thought there was quite enough to warrant him in bringing
the subject before the House; and he therefore on Friday should
call the attention of their Lordships to the mode in which the
Roman Catholic oaths were constructed.
The Bishop of EXETER presented a petition, praying
that the House would adopt such means as would secure the
spiritual education of the humbler classes.
Lord BEAUMONT wished to know when it would suit the
Government to bring forward the measure relating to the (sou-
-1 solidation of the turnpike-trusts in England ?
The Duke of WELLING TON said that the matter would be
brought before the House either on Thursday or Friday.
Earl FORTESCUE presented a petition-from Belfast, corn- •
plaining of the present state of Ireland. The petitioners
stated that they apprehended civil war;, and that though
the use of power might be effectual for the ssuppression
of disorder, it could not remove discdiftent. They als7
complaired of the inefficient state of the represen-
tation of Ireland, as compared with that of England,
In conclusion, they prayed the House to adopt such measures
as were best calculated to avert the dangers now impending, and
to prevent the recurrence thereof.
THE STATE OF IRELAND.
The Marquis of NORMANBY, on rising to call the atten-
tion of the House to this subject, said—There were subjects of
such paramount and urgent importance in the minds of a
speaker, that they completely banished all considerations of self.
It was this alone which had induced him to encounter the diffi-
culty, and to incur the responsibility, of bringing before their
i Lordships a subject of such great magnitude as that of which
he had given notice. He entertained feelings of such inten-
_
city as to the present danger and as to the- future prospects of
Ireland, that whatever other disqualification he might hue, he
should at least address them with that earnestness which was,
he believed, the best passport to their Lordships' attention.
But he had another inducement to address their Lordships on
this subject; that even now, in the midst of all the excite-
ment and agitation—to which he was known to be opposed--
he daily received proofs from different parts of the country
of the kindly recollection retained by a kind-hearted people of
one whom they truly believed to have had their interest at
heart. No one would deny that the present state of that
country imperiously called for the immediate attention of Par-
liament.—( Hear. ) One year since there was an agitation in
that country which the moderate in Ireland regarded with
disfavour, and in this country was opposed with a unanimity
almost unparalleled. It was headed by an individual who,
whatever might be his claims to the gratitude of posterity, had
rendered himself, by many of his proceeding', dis-
tasteful to the large majority in this country. What
wks the state of things now ? The repeal of the union
was not one degree less impracticable, but men's minds were
diverted from that simple issue to the canvassing freely and
the criticising unfavourably much of the conduct of her Ma-
jesty's Government. In the year 1829, when introducing the
Roman Catholic Relief Bill, the present Prime Minister,
in alluding to the state of Ireland, said that 7,000,000 of Ca-
tholi-s were united to a man. He was far from believing that
they were united on this subject, though they appeared to be
united against her Majesty's Government.—( Hear.) They were
not more favourable to repeal, but their condition was such
that he was justified in calling upon their Lordships for inquiry
into the subject. With reference to this he need only allude to
the petition which had just been presented by his Noble Friend
from certain Protestants in Belfast. lie had reason to believe
that the feeling there expressed was -a growing one, that it
extended to many of the leading Protestants in Ireland,
and thii result was owing greatly to the manner in which the
question had been treated. He was about to move a rest-
lution, of which it might be said, that in all the principles
contained in it her Majesty's Government entirely concurred.
He candidly avowed that that was not the view with which be
moved the resolution.—( Hear, from the Duke of Wellington.)
The principles professed in the resolution were principles
which the Noble Lords opposite unscrupulously opposed when
they were not in power, though it was true that they paid
some lip hornaze to them at the moment of their accession to
office. But were there no other proofs but that petition of the
necessity of inquiry into this subject? Another Noble Friend
of his had presented another petition, signed by the same class
of persons, to the same effect. He was sure that nothing but
an imperious sense of duty could have induced the first sub-
ject in Ireland—the Duke of Leinster—to have taken the chair
at the meeting at which this petition was agreed to. There
was also the letter, which they must have seen, of a Noble
Lord much opposed to the leader of the Repeal movement—the
Earl of Shrewsbury. All these things proved the necessity of
an inquiry into the conduct of the Government. He felt serious
alarm at the state of Ireland ; but trusted that peace would
still be preserved. He then proceeded to the repeal agita-
tion. When that agitation first became formidable, two
courses were open to the Government, by following up either
of which with perseverance, they would! have led to sepa-
rate advantages —( Hear, hear, hear.) They might have
interfered at first by proclamation to , ut down these
meetings. If this course was to be taken; ards—if it was
resolved that it should be taken—it would avelbeen. the most
straightforward and most manly course to have taken it at
once. More than this he would- say, that if the Government
had evidence enough to establish a charge of sedition, it was
their bounden duty to have interfered.—( Hear, hear.) tut
by the course they did take, though the advantages were con-
tingent, the evils were immediate. From the violence of some
of their declarations at the time, he certainly inferred that
they wished to strike but dared not. The best chance of the
success of their policy was that their vigorous acts should be
accompanied by remedial measures. Common prudence should
have dictated to them, that if no rigour was to be shown, need-
less irritation should have been avoided. But what did they
do ? They took that most senseless step of dismissing
the Irish magistrates. With this one exception, they
appeared determined to persevere in what some of
their friends called the do-nothing policy. But just
when they seemed on the point of reaping the fruits of
forbearance, when the agitation would either have died out,
or, passing a certain point, would have taken another form, at
that moment they altered their course, and stepped in, and
oceeded by proclamation against these meetings, thus giving
one section of their own party not only a triumph over the majo.
rity of the people but a triumph over themselves.—(Cheers.)
The Noble L -rd Cheered, but it must be recollected that that was
not a new view of the subject. He was not generally inclined
to attribute to any party, particularly to persons in office, ar-
ticles which appeared in periodical publications. But in the
month of September last, there certainly did appear an article
in a periodical publication which, if he were not much mistaken
(and he had studied the style), was the production of an old friend
of his (the Noble Marquis here turned towards the Marquis of
Clanricarde) than whom no one was better acquainted with
Ireland. The article he alluded to was in the Quarterly Re-
view.—(Ministerial cheers.) It must be remembered that the
opinions there stated were not his. (The Noble Marquis here
read a passage from the Quarterly Review of September last,
in which it was stated the meetings would wear themselves out,
and that the Fabian policy would at length defeat them; and
that the mischief that would result from the opposite course
would be incalculable.) He (the Marquis of Normanby) had no
hesitation in saying that he agreed with these sentiments.
But the Government had taken a different course—
they issued their proclamation to prevent the meeting at Clon-
tart ; and before coming to that part of the subject, he wished
to know whether any Noble Lord had ever heard one single
person in private conversation defend the conduct of the Go-
vernment in that case—whether they had ever heard of so much
rashness, after so much vacillation, exhibited by any Govern-
ment? If it had not been for the active interference of those
from whom the Govornment had no right to expect support,
what would have been the consequence?—( Hear, hear,
from the Duke of Wellington.) He should like to hear some
explanation of the matter. If it was defended in that House, it
would be the first time that it was defended in any quarter.—
( Hear, hear, from the Duke of Wellington, and ether Noble
• Lords oni the Ministeral benches.) Noble Lords cheered
him, but he was sure he would not hear from them such taunts
as were used against the parties who had so interfered—taunts
of cowardice—because they had obeyed the law. He was sure
he would not hear such a defence, and he hoped that Noble
Lords opposite who cheered would put their explanation in a
more intelligible shape. He would not trouble the
House at any length about his opinions respecting
repeal, because he had stated those opinions already
as strongly as any of their Lordships, and that too not within
that House, but face to face with a portion of the Irish people,
who had previously advocated repeal. In the year 1836, an
address had been presented to him, when in the south of Ire-
land, from one of the Ridings of the county of Cork, in which it
was stated that they had advocated the doctrine of repeal, but
had given it up in consequence of the measures they expected
from the Government. He, on that occasion, stated his
sincere opinion, that the repeal was not for the benefit of Ire-
land, and that his sincerity in that opinion was in proportion to
his love for Ireland. The people stated to him on that occasion
that all they asked was equality with the British people, and a
reciprocity of rights and principles. With less, they said,
they could not be content, and with less, he said, they should
not be content. He thought that the present condition of the
sister nation was such as to require all the benefits which
could be .4grived from progressive legislation ; but it must
have progressi* legislation, it could not be acquired by a re-
peal of the union. He should still say, notwithstanding that
opinion, that the question of the repeal of the union was one
which was open to discussion; for, although injurious
as its consummation might be to the kingdom, yet it was only
the restoration of an Act which existed many years ago, and
which Act when it was repealed was opposed by many of the
most eminent of both countries, amongst whom was the re-
spected late Lord Holland. He therefore denied the right to
impute to the Irish people a spirit of " wild " enthusiasm,
when they sought to repeal an Act which had been opposed by
such men as those to whom he just now alluded, and the more
particularly so when the machinery by. which this Act was
carried was such as not to bear investigation or to meet the
daylight, and had been is its origin Opposed by the leading
men of the country. In repeating what lie said in the year
1836, with respect to his opinion of repealing the union, he
was alone actuated by the most sincere love of Ireland and the.
Irish people. He most certainly must dissent from the prin-
ciple which the present Ministry seemed to involve in the last
speech from the throne, namely, that they were, even in the
slightest degree, bound to abide by a declaration made in a
former reign. What, he would ask, was the intent of a
dissolution of Parliament, but to take the sense of the people.
and therefore how was a new Parliament to be held
responsible for the declarations made in a previous
one ?—( Hear, hear.) In seven years after the declaration.
of the union with Scotland, the Duke of Argyle waited in per-
son upon her Majesty, anti said that to such an extent baudndis-
content now existed, that the nation must consider the on,
way to repress the agitation—which rt. e
grievances
of
the
dissolved. He (the Earl of Normanby)theoredbest
used
g persevering attempts
country. There might be such
disaffection by a denial of Justice.—
(Hear,to create turbulence a
Lordships go back, let them fieshen
their Lordships—was to apply is
oretzedo y
est
hear.) Let their thoughtion moobt hdaetp
ay
--(Heart hear.)-I,' h were calculated to embitter the
re-
medies refuse w a stringentnd sif
they
measures knew
suggested—no phrases
lii-h and provoke them to disaffection? Why,
feelings of the
the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, whom however,
he admitted, from the kindliness of his nature was incapable
up their recollectionn%
of a 'peisevering effort to anoy, so as to excite—but had not
his Noble and Learned Friend, if so he might call him, un-
happily used a phrase, in speaking of the Irish, which had sunk
deep into their minds? If they condemned so strongly the
application of the word " Saxon" to the English, surely they

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