The Sun.
London, England, 1850-12-31 00:00:00

both public and private ? I suppose so, as you irx-
press a hope that there may be tha.eby w Equidation
of the national debt. If so, then away with your
pretensions to honesty, for there is none in you. Take
an extreme case, which is the proper way to view ouch
a subject in—suppose that gold increases in abun-
dance, so that it is only worth 4s. per ounce, or 5 per
cent. of its present value, would you say that because
the pound was borrowed in gold of so many grains
in weight, and many debts contracted in it larger in
amount together than the national debt, that ouch
weight of only one-twentieth of the original value
should be the payment of such debts ?
You who pretend that the debts were contracted in
_ _

pounds of full weight and tale in gold distinctly imply
that they ought to be paid in full weight and tale of
the value at Si. 17s. 101 d. ; but I, who deny that any
such contract was made, implied, understood, or even
expected to be carried out, with any one, have a right
to take advantage of the Californian accident, and not
allow any interference with the present law—cer-
tainly none until, if fate so ordains, the value of gold
should be reduced to the amount justly due to the
creditor interest. Once for all, I say, that, measured
in the coins, the nation's debts are had dEhts ; they
were not contracted in such coin, they are not due in
such coin, and they mver will be paid in such coin,
whoever may live to see the finale. All this you
know much better than you like to admit, as is
proved by your article last week upon the Califorria
gold discoveries, wherein you clearly show that what
you choose to call your honest spontaneous charges
would do all the good that would be done
by my honestly proposed direct and conventional
changes. I see that you have been guilty of a
slight misrepresentation respecting the changes
made in their coins by the Romans. You would
have it appear that their reductions in value
arose from their own revolutions previously to the
establishment of the empire; whereas they were
principally made immediately after the first and se-
cond Punic wars, and really saved the republic from
ruin, as our Act of 1797 saved us from being de-
feated by Napoleon. But the Romans, like the Rus-
sians, were not so weak as to attempt to return to
their original position; they left that attempt to be
made by the wisdom of Englishmen ; and when I have
seen the value of land, produce, and labour reduced
to the same level as existed in 1775, and that then
both agriculture and commerce are simultaneously
and permanently prosperous, I will believe the object
to be feasible.

To conclude, Sir, I beg leave to say that I shall
be happy to wait upon your remarks, only please to
avoid blackguardism, or I shall soon convince you that
I can call things by their right names as well as any-
body. Ido not know it, but the world says that
you are in the constant pay of the moneyocracy ; if
so, I only say, may you become wiser and better.
Yours respectfully,
G. P. MUNTZ.
Ley Hall, near Birmingham, Dec. 23.

(From the Times.)

There are men whose theories are better than

their practice, and there are men whose practice is
better than their theories. Mr. Muntz happily be-
longs to the latter class. As there are advocates of

poly-gamy, who in practice are content with one wife,
s there areloyal democrats, fl d amiable abettors of
international hostility, so Mr. Mintz Who is able and

ready, he says, to pay all his debts three times over,
stands up for the grand principle of dishonesty. He
is a platonic had debtor, and loves insolvency, not
from selfish considerations, but for its own sake.
We can readily believe that he would rather pay all
his creditors 40s. in the pound than 19s. 6d., but only
yesterday he favoured our readers with an argument
to show that the public ought not to pay more than
63. 3d. in the pound. That is the precise figure he
would put upon public morality. We have borrowed,
he says, 800,000,000/, and we have no right to pay
more than 250,000,0001. Considering that Mr.
Muntz is owed much more than he owes, and
belongs to the creditor class; considering that
whatever the nation does, he is resolved himself to
act like a gentleman, at least so far as his debts are
concerned, it is impossible to imagine a greater in-
stance of self-immolation. As a private man he wishes
to be honest, as a patriot he wishes his country to set
the world a grand example of scowndrelism. His as-
pirations in behalf of his country are heroic. He
does not wish it to sink under the pressure of misfor-
tune, to share a universal disaster, as has happened to
many a good and true man ; no, he despises such
constrained insolvency. The splendid destiny he
prays for this empire is that the heyday of its fortunes
and the noontide of its wealth—after struggling with
its difficulties more than thirty years with signal
success—it should suddenly, with its pockets full, its
treasury overflowing, its taxes half abolished, its fixed
capital enormously increased, its metallic circulation
beyond all precedent or example, and its credit at
the highest possible pitch—should, in special conside-
ration of those extraordinary blessings, suddenly
avow its religious determination to pay its creditors
6s. 3d. in the pound.
But let us hear our great teacher of voluntary de-
falcation. " More than all the present amount of
800,000,000/. was borrowed at the rate of 60/. and
under for Three per Cent. Consols, and the money in
which it was borrowed was worth no more than 103.
in the pound in property and produce if compitv.d
with gold at 3/. 17s. 101 u. per oz.; 134. 41. if com-
pared with the then price of gold, which, not being
required for money, never advanced in the same ratio
as other articles ; so that in fact the country really
borrowed only 250,000,000/." Here's a respectable
doctrine for a respectable man to preach to a respect..
able country. When a pecuniary engagement or any
other engagement comes into a British court of law
the great question always is, What are the terms
and significance of this engagement ? What is
the exact nature of this promise ? Forthwith the
document, if any, is closely overhauled, and if it is
absolute and unconditional, then, on proof of the
handwriting and such facts, the obligation ex-
pressed in the document is established. But what
says Mr. .Muntz ? He says, " Take into account that
the signer of the document was at the time in very
low credit ; find out the terms which his creditors
were obliged to pay for getting his bills discounted ;
and strike off the amount of that discount from the
signer's present obligation. He undertook to pay
the interest of his bond in promissory notes, and as
both the undertaking and the promissory notes were
current at less than their nominal value, here was a
double discount, and the debtor should now have
the full benefit of that double discredit." Such is
the effect of Mr. Muntz's doctrine. As we can re-
cognize no difference between a private and a public
debtor, we will take an individual case. The Earl
of Entails, a nobleman of large property and of a
high spirit, has embarked into divers expensive under-
takings. Besides rebuilding the family mansion, he
has dug canals, opened collieries, drained mosses, built
churches, planted mountains, and done everything
that a great man should do who is confident in his
opinions and ignorant of his resources. To give
his affairs the coup de grace, he is engaged in several
lawsuits for the recovery of some family estates ; and,
in the agony of his fortunes, when pressed for money
on all sides, gave bonds for 1001. on the receipt of
just half the amount in hard cash. His affairs becom-
ing more desperate nobody would work for him ex-
cept at very high rates, and he had to give his bond
for 1001. in payment of an account for 50/., when
every item was overcharged 30 or 40 per cent. and the
real consideration received was not more than 30/.
However, Lord Entails just managed to keep his
head above water, and his bonds passed from hand to
hand at a decent value. In process of time he won
his lawsuits, got good crops from his bogs and good
coal from his pits, and was so well known to be in
a condition to pay off his bonds in the full that they
were current at their full nominal value. At this
moment, however, he bad the misfortune to meet
with an evil adviser, who shall be nameless, but who
instigated him to insist on compounding with his
creditors on the principle of paying only at the rate
of value received. So Lord Entails, with the name-
' less gentleman at his elbow, is to sit down, to consider
the work actually done and the articles actually de-
livered, offer their present value to the holders of the
bonds, viz., 301. for every 1001. promised. Now, we
respectfully beg our great apostle of national delin-
quency to tell us how my Lord Entails would fare in
a court of justice or any company of gentlemen in
this empire ; that is if, having the power to pay in
full, he refused to pay more than 30 per cent.
But Mr. Muntz will meet us with a flat denial that
the country can pay in full. He says that our paper
currency, and the debts contracted in it, are not really
convertible. Here are his words :—" The great ques-
tion is this,—ls the coin of the United Kingdom of
the same value as the circulation ? Any one who
says that they are of equal value must be very igno-
rant, or very credulous, or both. Can any one really
believe that a country which keeps in active circula-
tion 40,000,000). in bank notes, to say nothing of bills
of exchange, with about 60,000,000/. in coins, has a
circulation of the same value as the coins? Why,

the idea is preposterous. If such were really the case
why have any paper in circulation ? Why not con-
vert it all, and solve the question ?" If Mr. Muntz
really doubts the convertibility of our paper currency,
he had better take fifty 1,0001. notes to the Bank of
England and present them for payment, and if after
ten minutes' delay a clerk hands over the amount in
new sovereigns of the abominable 31. 17s. 10ii. per
oz. value, then Mr. Muntz may go away satisfied
that to all intents and purposes a bank note is conver-
tible. If this is not sufficient, let the whole of the

Birmingham currency school change their property
into bank notes, make a pilgrimage to London, and
make a run on the Bank. The question of converti-
bility solvilur ambulando—that is, to Threadneedle-
street. " Enough is as good as a feast," and a man
who can pay every bill as fast as it is presented is as
solvent as the man who keeps a supply of cah equi-
valent to all his outstanding bills in his parlour cup-
board. But what sensible man ever allowed himself

• to ba haunted by the whole of a possibility, when
only a small part of it was within the range of pro •
bability ? The idea that we should always be pre-
pared for the whole of what is conceivable, and that
nothing short of this is prudent or true, is just such
a nightmare as might invade the slumbers of a puzzle-
headed schoolboy after three slices of Christmas plum-
pudding. The experience of 30 years proves that
with an occasional hitch, easily got over, a compara-
tively small stock of bullion is sufficient to keep a
paper currency practically convertible. At all events,
if Mr. Muntz denies that a 51. note is at this moment
convertible into gold, let him walk to the Bank of
England, or ask any sane person he may chance to
have about him.
Everybody who has been out of Englanlknows
that throughout the whole civilized world there is
nothing so appreciable, so stable, and so perfectly ne-
gotiable as a Bank of England note, or anything to
which the word of this country is pledged in an Equal
degree. Mr. Blunt; to do him justice, cannot quite
swallow the less of this thin in our national glory.
lie cannot quite stand sering a Batik if England note
gr.wing fumbled, raged, and grt aq in a tioehet of
a Paris tradesman, tsnd sold to a Hebrew for 305., or
a German merchant not tweting his bills because
his money had been invested in our 'Three per
Cent. Console. So hers is his nietbood of meeting
this ot•jecti!..n. " You will say that a foreigner
having money hi our funds would be a loser,
which would he a breach of national faith. I
admit it, and thus far I think that national faith

ought to be carried out. The foreigner who has
money in our funds ought to be paid in full weight
and tale; but national faith between our people—be-
tween a fundholder and a landholder, farmer or ma-
nufacturer—is complete nonsense. The Government
is as much bound to support the just and relative
position of the one interest as of the other." The Go-
vernment is bound to do, first of all, that which it
has expressly promised to do. It has expressly pro-
mised to pay five pounds to the bearer of a 51. note,
and then three or three-and-a- half pounds annually,
to the holders of certain stock. When it has dis-
charged this written, express, and prior obligation, it
may then proceed to the performance of its sublimer
function described by Mr. Muntz—viz., the support of
the just and relative position of the several interests
in the country. Our lawyers are in the habit of
regarding a written promise as of prior obligation to
a natural duty, aad all respectable Governments
adopt the same rule. But how happy, how ingenious,
and, above all, how practicable would this distinction
of Mr. Muntz's prove. The Parisian Rothschild is
still to receive his three per cent. for his Consols in
three sovereigns of the existing coinage ; the London
Rothschild is to receive in virtue of the very same
document just 18s. 9d., that being Mr. Muntz's
equitable adjustment of the fundholding claims. Why,
of course, if there were the least chance of the distinc-
.

tion being observed, all our funds would pass, nomi-
nally at least, into foreign hands. But is the distinc.
tion anything more than a jest ? We will re-
turn to the case of our friend Lord Entails,

With his Mentor at his elbow, his Lordship
is to say to his tradesmen and other credi-
tors :—" Gentlemen, you are all interested in
my welfare. Were I to be ruined you would all
feel the shock. Would you like to see my house dis-
mantled, my;domains disparked, my servants all dia-,
charged, and all my expenditure withdrawn from,
this neighbourhood P My neighbours -and fellow-:
countrymen must excuse my offering them only
' Gs. 3d. in the pound on their claims against me. But,
gentlemen, if you will go to Barcelona, or Valparaiso,
renounce your allegiance to Queen Victoria, become
the subject of some foreign sovereign or republic,
change your religion, your morals, your manners, and
your dress, and lose your identity altogether, in that
case I feel it my unquestionable duty to send you '
most punctually 20s. in the pound of your debts ; and
when half the convex world' rolls between us, you
may rely on my faithful discharge of this sacred
duty." That, in fact, is Mr. Muntz's promise to the
foreign fundholder. Its value we leave to those who
know whether " distance lends enchantment" to the
sense of pecuniary obligations.

THE CURRENCY QUESTION.
(From the Derbyshire Courier.)
The Times of Saturday last contains a long article
in reply to a communication from Mr. Muntz, the
Member for Birmingham. We do not intend to enter
into the immediate matter of dispute between the
Times and Mr. Muntz, only observing, with respect
to that gentleman's proposition, that we believe a more
comprehensive system of monetary reform, based upon
principles tested alike by philosophy and experience,
may, without difficulty, be established in this country.
It is to the general bearing of the remarks of the
Times on the currency question that we wish to call
the attention of our readers. One observation, how-
ever, we wish to make with respect to the manner in
which it pleases the Times to refer to Mr. Muntz's
proposition. We find that paper speaking of Mr.
Muntz as " preaching the superior convenience of
cheating our crtditors." The alteration he proposes
is called " a piece of rascality ;" the means he
recommends for ameliorating the condition of the
! agricultural body are said to be dishonest."
The Times and Mr. Muntz take, no doubt, a widely
different view of financial matters. But we think that
the Times sill find out that it makes a mistake in
applyirz these coarse terms of vituperation to the
Member for ,Birmingham. The public and private
character of Mr. Muntz is well known ; his integrity
as a British merchant is unquestionable. We differ
from many of his political opinions; but where in the
House of Commons shall we find a man who has in a
more manly, honest, uncompromising manner, inva-
riably expressed the sincere convictions of his own
mind, or more earnestly endeavoured—whether er-
roniously or otherwise—to benefit the great masses of
his fellow-countrymen ? The effects of what Mr.
Muntz proposes as to the currency, may or may not
be injurious to the country, but the imputation of
advocating fraudulent or dishonest measures proves
that the writer in the Times entirely misunderstands
the principles on which Mr. Muntz grounds his
proposition, or that the cause which renders
necessary the use of such " unparliamentary"
language is a weak and bad one. But to take
the case as stated by the Times. Mr. Muntz it ap-
pears advocates " such an alteration in the rate of
convertibility of our paper as should be in ratio with
those prices of property, produce and labour, which
should enable us to meet our liabilities."

We give the instances of the Times to which this
" doctrine" may, it is said, be supposed to apply. "A
man whose property consists in land worth 1,000/.
owes twice that sum, and of course cannot pay it.
A second man, whose farm yields him a profit of
100/. a year, owes 2,0001., and of course cannot pay
the interest of his debt without running still deeper
into debt for his household expenses. A third man,
having a wife and family, earns 10s. a week, and
having pledged himself to pay half a crown a week
out of it, finds himself rather pinched."
Here then are, a landowner and a tenant farmer
ruined—the case we fear of thousands at present—
and a labouring man "rather pinched," which we
may take to mean with a family half starved—as we
fear will be the case with many labourers before long.
Let us ask, how came these persons into this condi-
tion ? We need not adopt, as the Times afterwards
says, " precisely the rate" of the liabilities.

Betvieen 1797 and 1815 wheat ranged between
sos. and 90s. a qr., on the average. Suppose the
landowner, encouraged by the recorded unanimous
vote of Parliament that the improvement of waste
and unproductive lands is "a most essential public
advantage," to have mortgaged a part of his estate to
improve the condition of the whole, as Sir James
Graham puts it. With the then existing price of
corn the interest of his mortgage could be paid with-
out difficulty. An alteration takes place in the
monetary system, but the landowner is told
that he shall not be injured; his wheat shall be
" protected" up to 80s. a qr. But severe distress
pervades the country. The landowner is in-
formed that he must submit to a reduction of
price, his wheat shall be protected up to 70s. a
qr., by and bye up to 645. per qr., then up to 565. a
qr. At every reduction the landowner finds the en-
cumbrance on his property virtually increased. As
the price of the produce of his land declines he must
lower his rent, but his bond requires the same amount
of money to be paid. Acts of Parliament to which
he trusted are repealed one after another, and at last
he learns that the " good of the country" requires that
he shall sell his corn at " the price of the world."
Ruin now stares him in the face, but when he men-
tions the idea of an " equitable adjustment"—when
he says, " I entered into certain pecuniary engage-
ments on the faith of repeated Acts of Parliament;
you have altered the value of those engagement, I am
paying two quarters of wheat, when I engaged and
expected to pay one, adjust' my engagement to exist-
ing circumstances"--then he is met with the epithets of
fraudulent, and dishonest, and called a coiner, a forger,
a swindler. Now surely this is harsh dealing; and ob-
serve the same ruinous process is being applied to the
tenant farmer whose fixed money payments are not,
and cannot in this highly taxed country, be reduced
in proportion to the fall in price of his produce ; who
has invested his capital in the land and cannot with-
draw it, who feels ruin coming upon him daily, and
sees the frugal savings of years, the portion for his
children, the provision for their mother, melting away,
however tenaciously he may clutch them. And the
labourer's turn must, we fear, come. These three
" unfortunates," as the Times calls them, with all their
" struggling and striving," will only get worse. A
measure of merciful adjustment is proposed. The
industrious classes, particularly at this time the agri-
cultural classes, are being pressed down to the earth.
" Have mercy," say s.the Member for Birmingham.
"No," says the Times, "England has promised to
pay so many pounds of gold." But we take
our stand as Currency Reformers and say,
"We do not ask for Mercy, we ask for Justice."
We deny that England ever " promised to pay