The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 13.
COUNTY COURTS EX TENSION BILL.
(Continued from our Fourth Edition of last night.)
Mr. MITCHELL then rose to propose the following
clause:—Be it enacted, that nothing contained in this
Bill shall take away the power of the judges of the supe-
rior courts to make, or shall interfere wtth the exercise
of their discretion in making, orders for holding de-
fendants to bail in actions commenced in the superior
courts for claims not exceeding 501.; and that when,
in any action, any such order shall remain, the provi-
sions of this Act shall not apply with respect to such
action.

After a fow words from the ATTORNEY-GENE.
RAL, the clause was agreed to.
Mr. M'CULL AGE. moved the following clause.—
" And be it enacted, that the court shall, after the first
day on which it shall sit in each district or place, com-
mence its sittings not later than nine of the clock in the
forenoon, save when prevented by the illness or una-
voidable absence of tbe judge appointed to preside in
such court; and that no trial, case, or business shall be
entered upon after the hour of six of the clock in the
afternoon of any day, by such court, except at the re-
quest of both parties."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the clause,
which he thought would unduly interfere with the dis-
cretion of the judges of those cuurts.
Lord D. C. STUART also opposed the clause.
Mr. M'CULLAG.H said he heard of instances in
which the judges of those courts had commenced the
hearing of "cases after midnight. But if the Committees
did not approve of his motion he should not press its
adoption.
The clause was then withdrawn.
Mr. CROWDER rose to move certain clauses which
would give a right of appeal from the •decisions of' the
judges of those courts.. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
' man said that that right had been given in the Bill which
had originally been introduced by the Hon. Member for
Lewes (Mr. Fitzroy). But objections having been urged
against the mode in which the clauses conferring that
right had been framed, those clauses had been withdrawn.
He found, however; that it was proposed that the right
of appeal should be given by the Bill then before the
Committee. Now, he thought that such a proceeding
would be most unreasonable, and he was at a loss to
conceive any ground on which it could possibly be jus-
tified. The establishment of those courts had been
first suggested in the report of the Law Commio-
sinners published in the year 1833, and it had
been stated by Lord Cottenham, when the first County
Courts Bill had been adopted, in the year 1846, that
that measure had been founded on the report of those
Law Commissioners. It was a remarkable fact that in
the discussions of that measure he did not find that a
word had been said either for or against an appeal
clause. The report of the Commissioners of 1833 stated
it as the opinion of the Commissioners that to disallow
the power of appeal altogether would be attended with
considerable inconvenience, and that the ends of justice
would be best attained by permitting appeals under cer-
tain restrictions. In. 1841, he found Sir E. Sugden
staing in the House of Commons, in reference to that
subject, that to maintain a proper check on the judges
two things were necessary—a vigilant, intelligent, and
independent bar, and a court of appeal; and that, with-
out these checks, very few of them would do their duty
in a manner satisfactory to the public. A very remark-
able instance had been communicated to him by a learned
friend of his. The other day a case occurred in one of
the metropolitan small debts courts, in which a decision
was cited which had been given in the Court of Ex-
chequer, to- the authority of which the judge of the
court bowed, and decided accordingly. The party
engaged on the other side stated that the judge
of an adjoining metropolitan court had decided
in opposition to that judgment ; and the judge of a third
and neighbouring court said that he should in such
cases always decide upon his own judgment. And why
hot ? There was nothing to control him. The refusal
of an appeal was opposed to the principle upon which
the law was administered in this country. It must be
recollected also, that, although in the appointment of
judges to these courts there was a restriction to barris-
ters of seven years' standing, the judges had the power
of appointing deputies to act for them, who might be
barristers cf only three years' standing. Would they
then permit questions involving an amount of 501. to be
decided by such judges ? It appeared to, him that they
wished to destroy the efficiency of the Bill, and raise the
voice of the whole country against it as much, as it had
been hitherto raised in its favour, which he admitted
they would accomplish by passing it without permitting
a power of. appeal. He admitted that an appeal
could not be given without creating some delay and
some increase of expense ; but be bad endeavoured to
frame his clauses in su.h a manner as to obviate
these objections as far as possible. He would not read
the clauses which be was about to propose at length, but
merely sta e the effect of them. First, he proposed to
give an appeal in cases where the dispute was not on
points of law or the ruling of the judge. In such cases
he proposed that the judge should have the power of
ullowing an appeal. With respect to the other etau.es,
they were fremed with the, view of allowing an appeal
on p Ants of law, and this whether the judge peredited
it or net, where the sum sought to be recevered exceeded
20/. in ac ions of contract, or 5/. in actions of tort. In
these cases, if the drctsion of the jte.ge was obi-cted
the matter went up to the superior courts at Westmin-
ster,i in the ordinary way in term time, and to a ju, ge a
chembera The Hon. and Learned Member

concluded by tn.Ying his clause:s.
Mr. FI I ZROY said that the Hon. and Learned At-
torney• Gen. ral had said last S ear that he was opposed
`o an 61:s1 a al, tt,,u he lLtd tht:refore oinittud any provi-
si.n fc r th it purp4e in his Bill of this year. In re-
tereneu to ill.• crestion itself, be thought thatif thq
4idoPted the appeal propoaed in matters Of fact as well

v itad'
Ns in matt, ra of law, :ley d
would euperadd tra°, emee
vs ton,agi s Leese rereedy 'offered by the un
suvur. Ile would support the Hon. and L'ar''red
of the
tonne) -General, if he would move the rejection
clauses.
Mr. CROWDER said the j p
udge'e would
ermini°n, t
be required where the error arose on maters of ieeret if
Si'i G. GREY had stated on a former ecossion
courts, tesisest
they extended the sphere of tee county
would run the risk of depriving them of their V.Puee.
elect), nt; end that it they materially eulsreed the/ The
die. ion, the question of an appeal would be raised: _ Qe;
House bad (geoid. d on excendiug the jurodiction tu;„te,
rut his wish was to retain the character of these c
and would theref,re oppose the clauses.. to the
Mr. AGLIONBY objected to the provision e 5 judge
appeal on matters of tact,- which said that the
ctlf tce
should state, at tee end of his notes, to %bat pal „flea!,
evidence he attached credit. He •elojested to the.arrtesti
and would rather submit to a decision agaiust law
try The :en o
AppT eel
TORNET-GENERAL said it will els e coest
o tio "pp. se the ciaueee. He was quite swer,e iu
much might be said us to the propriety
.of en ePri, Bill
the case of large sums, but to introduce it into rte,
weuld be to destroy the principal object "cbeeole, a
which was to have summary, cheap, and, if P°6sreeed
saustactury decteiou, But the House having eleP fee it
a decided opinion in favour of the jurisdiction. homes'
to to his duty to assist as far he could in 0:111kill 061
ure perfect possible.—(Hear, hear ) eis•
by introducing thesa clauses they would do terOlotioe
chief, by destroying the efficieuce and general cro ti-
er the courts. Then he objected' to the digit:rod ia
tween the ca,,es in which the appeal was allowed
yrbt
which it was refused; if any appeal MIS allowed
to be general. easel'
M. COCKBURN said there was not a racirtebee°erin,'
entious or more warm friend than binr.elf I° ee sdrel.
ciple of these courts. He was for loealieing I'Wepd to
nistration of justice as far as possible, and "nation c'
see these courts gradusly absorb the greeter Pert hoe
the legal business of the country. thoug" 4014
ever, an appeal essentially necessary. He liedaty,
seen the judge—however exalted in point." of 5
to rity, and position—on whom the conscioutosottei
superintending power would not be attended bye d chile
results. There was no judge—not even the cite
cellor—who was not subject to some appeal. ."
prig'
jetted that these clauses would interfere with I e stet
ciple of the Bill, which he admitted to be cheefiet the
mary, and speedy justice ; but when they el:See:We
jurisdiction to amounts above 201., they were 'll,-.,,,risow;
a new class of business. Under the extende"e-licstr
tion, questions involving very intricate and celikeussP'
questions of law would be brought before tbeie tn. cos'
and unless they had some appeal. they e50u14146.
flitting decisions without end. * cceee Gf
Sir J. GRAHAM was as anxious for the -u tbst°P;
the Bill as the Hon. and Learned Member for Peel/ else
ton, who had just spoken, and ho was extre„te-ooree„.
that the Government bad taken their present AC . PU'f'
They had endeavoured to make this Bill es far 0'
sible in confurmity with the reasonable expect pert the
the people. He was not in a position to centrorepor
able arguments used by the Hun. and Learned dent]
who had just spoken. It might bare been Pril,„ of th°
have waited somewhat longer to see the workic;btee that
system before extending it further. He edw;&iecilien,
it would be impossible to secure uniformity.ol ege but
amongst the sixty judges without a court of eit,porte,,
if the two Hon. and Learned Gentlemen who e",,ritblu-
its introduction into the pie sent Bill were to srgutLe heee
wisdom of Solon, it was their misfortune, it ,e,`"tcle
the misfortune of other eminent personages. to pieelliefile
" These arguments are urged too late." It WAs t"-hei° tlys;
in this country that in the superior courts.' w"
~.as
the delay of process and the expense, justice 513,1
dear. They, therefore, desired a more swore, eilesole
ready process. He feared that this cheap tbeel
be found imperfect, AS compared with that whichAl)"
had hitherto been accustomed to see administer•wor the
he also had some feers as to the indirect effecse, beceen't
measure on the bar at Westminster Hall, which
sidered the proudest ornament of this country,
men who were the de fenders of our liberties, h oert
whom we were under eternal obligation. If °fee Pi
to be the result, he should be aggrieved; but e'estle
judgment of the people had gone forth that .the edebN
proceeding in the superior courts with reference tto ,
° e tie;
led
of 50/. was so extravagautly dear as to amount
trial of justice, and that they were, thereforeyre,3"te rhe
try the experiment. He would not enter lel
question as to whether this was the best n3odefsi
the appeal, but would treat it as a question eeese;
or no appeal, and fait that if they , granted en eero`eB3,l/
all they would violate public opinion, and pluituril"
long into all the costs and delay of the for"-
ceedings. • be
t to
Sir R. INGLIS thought it quite as impOrnileifeefil
certain justice as to have cheap, speedy, enn,l-ib e
justice. Without appeals they would have 0" ' :AP;
which attended their former election conamitteeeciecitie'
it was impossible to form any idea of what their „301i0oi
would be except by looking at their animal 0010,
Disclaiming any wish to fetter or impede the Peet to
the Bill, but rather desiriug to make it more Pe-
would give his support to the proposed clause, ~eov,';
Mr. S. WORTLEY doubted whether theeeth'e
sisted the introduction of these clauses were 'Ott'
friends of the Bill, for his firm conviction-0%OP;
less some provision was introduced within 11 ne",010!;1
tively short time the measure would be as neP"„,'
it was
iatnshgen
eoexwxppepenonspseet 1,1; aarbi.
but
tTn
hhteehr
ee principalthee& se appealof objectionnp appeals
aisht
fro tb°oo3,
upd
or.:t
boss °t
on st.h e
heard it said up to 101. no appeal
Iptriwneceipeleeidofthtahteannialip;peal would beti be js
that sum it was allowed to the. Court 0f.'60911'
that system worked well. bwuatsign.
i,Er.cirlbertuetio„,rd,
Colonel TLIOMPSON supported the clauses'" tete!
Mr. EVANS did not know what might be Ire-elt ba
if an economical mode of appeal could be d'15,1,-
he was sure the appeal pointed out in these clansv.) pen ••
be most objectionable. He had himself a new tr'eesrlis
ing in the Court of Queen's Bench, which was "ibecrii
year old; and when, under these circumstincel, ",eOlO
was again put int-) his hands, he knew no store
gel°
than it' he had never heard of it before. beer e
Mr. CROWDER, amidst cries of "Divide Se-
tt 0. 0
sty a few words in reply. He thought the "Divide,"
etle°,4l
ber for Cockermouth and the Right Hon. ue-Ly P
opposite were a little too hard upon his clausee•thit 0,0
framed the first clause in deference to the Le00101•J
originally stood—mainly, to give a power 0,1 ..,;"` Dale
cases is which the judge permitted it. He,Dae",itst,"to
with great attention and respect to the argawl-faileett
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, bue they bt eith?
convince him of the propriety or passing then; 0 eie
the appeal clause. Although there might „% Dres.
trial twelve months old in the Court lat Queg7Coierto'
there were no arrears in the Exchequer. old
-Pleas, and the fact of there being, cases Year -
l She
not to deprive.parties of their right to appeal se
thougt it essential to the ends of justice.
„earr"
-The Committee then divided, when, there ePr
For the amendment ••• OSA
Against
• ••• 00
• Majority against the ;:mendment ••• of
100 ti'
Mr. FORSTER then
,moved ;he introdue,t- rice
following clauset—" And
tn
he it enacted, tbateeetee P
voicing matters of disputed account between h
ties it shall be lawful for: " the judge of. enne-- of 5?
court, if he see fit, to refer the exaroinattCio hie e 0
disputed matters of account to an accouhtean',
port thereop, and that the cost of such refters.eo
of
recoverable. as costs in the suit,at the diiternll"
tee
judge." - 10
40c -
I.he ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to
and after some conversation it WAS Withdralt,
ep
Mr. MULLINGS then moved the insertion 014-be 10'00
ing clause:—" And be it enacted, that the fee
ill; ell
by barristers-tit-law and attorneys premeZieert Belo
said courts, in cases brought within theettristw;shetql
by this Act, shall be as follows:—.0 tietOrne 1010
entitled to have or recover a sum not exceeding r,,disTer
his fees and costs, where the debt, damage'; 4P, e-teer
claimed in any plaint in covenant, debt,.-de 7;of 0°
sumpsit shall not exceed '35/., or moretliso 23','"-Ised ea" for
case within the jurisdiction given by this it'Zioriel the
case shall any fee exceeding 21. 4r. 6d. be "10, ono(
employing a barrister or counsel in the est"
expense of employing a barrister or an ett,°„„r;,l 00,-the
by plaintiff or defendant, shall not be allow Oa, et
ation of costs unless by order of the ..1t3,`1,-0.03 time 00
judges of the said courts respectively shell halt "-
time determine in whit CIVICS such expense. /tbs.
allowed."
Sir G. GREY had,no objection to the ineert4°P c'r
0. the
clause, which was then agreed to.
Mr. COCKBURN moved. the , intredAor.:ribei I°ll
following clausei—eAnd whereas by the .`"0"-ited, ,0-$OO
of her present Majesty, 'hereinbefere 'vet mei"t
enacted that the judge of any county 0'1; 111;dr •
orders concerning the time or timee, ecu „Mob .I,;,ide
stalments any debt or damages-or costes feria!! be r
tnent shall be obtained in the said warts, ebteecletes
be' it enacted, that in any case where•eDY deloti•la,,ool
under this Act shall amount to more illentea =Ps of party against whom an' , order for .fleetz Tiding
of such debt shall be made, shall be in-replay(' teh-e-eh'
trade, business, or ceiling, subject to e jorigeejmieb/
to bankrupts, it shall not be lawful. fcere;t• Of
the
ing such order to postpone the per:entlt
beyond, the period of one calendar • ' alO
time of making such order." endersetio
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL will •
Ifl some, p4P
object to the clause unless its was niodifie" O,AtaQ,
After some further remarks from -Mr' of
BASS, the clate-e was negatived. • edtteP°"ol
Mr. BROTHERTON then moved the in ascii,
a clause, the purPort of which. we could e°fr • •
of
which was ulfimately withdrawn. ,endectione ,sOO,
Lord; D. STUART moved the Joie"... phloem&
Clause to facilitate the, service of eurntnoney'„ed neg."
(ejected to by theATTORNET•UNIeESAJo .; of
without a divisiote . , eeectioa of
clause for the protection of the officere °_
Lord D. S FUART then moved the intr7.'oo
court in the discharge of their duty. A'.114,01P
Arsr some objectione made by the • '
fter
The clause was regatived without to ups
•b
GENEBAL, .
The pre, able of the Bill was then rib.ateugbb
which the House resumed, the report war
and the Hill, as amended, ordered t sbe printed: Berifelf
PUBLIC LItittARIES AND DIUSBUI ieedteed
Mr: EViTART, in moving that the Hearse reecobject jp
into, Cotnalittee upee this Bill, Meted that' t
he
yo
the measure was to enable the inhabitants. to ho „
which. there was, a population exceeding 10, ere Peer
the. edvantuees of tree libraries and museums•
to pot* of
posed that the town ceuncil should bare the eia.eieent be
AS was given them in the _Bill far the establ:eut ,of
.1
bathS and wash-houses, but that, tbe free coneelever's
.rate-paer must first be btaind. He Ina eatoOtoi
aeratioynss in the Bill, iuo ordere to meebad
t. the. 62,t:d
of 'he eppene.nts to the measure that he `.1:10.103,1
introduced. Tee mayor, upon . the. request 03_, eef,
_Pe
,ber of the .rate-peyers for the establisturielee poor
library , MilditillUt will be obliged to
.put