The Sun.
London, England, 1850-05-28 00:00:00

it;i°lB° of Lerds, in order that the Government might
ea.ve the opportunity of laying the report of their Lord •
Lt'Ps* Committee before the House.
The CEIANCELLO ft of the EXCHEQUER said the
Committee on Mis:ellaneous Estima!e; expressed a hope
that the accounts and expenditure 01 the House of Lords
Gould be submitted t 3 a searching revisn n by a Com-
tism:es of that House. This revision was going on, and
he should therefore oppose the motion.
kr. HUME replied that the House had at present no
Proof of this searching investigation.
The House divided. The numbers were—
For Mr. Hume's amendment ... 48
Against it
..„ 110
The
Majority against the amendment ... —62
Ine vote was then agreed to.
THE TREASURY.
()u the vote of 'j6 100/. for the salaries and expenses
Of the Treasury.
FORBES moved a reduction of 10 per cent, upon
the rin of 30,8361., being the amount of the salaries of
e
assistant-secretary, clerks, and other persons on the
uhlislunent. He grounded this motion as well upon
the cheapness of the necessaries of lie, as upon the
"g
no gilt of the public burdens, and des eueessity for we-
4p.
.I'. Such a reduction as he proposed would, he
u.' ;
hermgreatly add to the popularity and stability of
re-
duce e'lsiesty's Government. He therefore moved to re-
c the total ye .. by the sum of 3.0961.
fl °keel THOMPSON begged to r -inarle the.t the pro-
of-4 his constituents had gone up 20 per cent., not on
daccount of any wrong which they had done to any class,
.ut on account of the cessation of a wrong that bed been
.
sce to them. He considered himself, therefore, as a
(t-otr to the Hon. Gentleman.--(A laugh.)
9olonel SI BT11011,1) said his Hon. Friend (Mr. Forbes)
4'l very properly excepted the salaries of the first and
riot' Lords of the Treasury and the Chancellor of the
il.eheenier from his motion, because the salaries of those
igeer offices were now under the consideration of a Se-
ect Committee. He thought, however, that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer was bound to pledge himself to
adopt the decision of that Committee, whatever it might
e: and whatever reduction they might recommend in the
salaries
upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman and his
colleagues had fattened.
The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER would
not enter into the question whether her Majesty's Minis-
ters had grown fat or lean since their accession to
sTice•—(A laugh.) But if the Committee upstairs
ettifl recommend a reduction of the salaries paid to
high:_ political officers, those salaries would be reduced
'row that time.—(Hear, hear.)
Met ier. HUME should not be disposed to agree to a re-
tilln of 10 per cent. in the salaries of the 45 junior
4zlrra d other clerks, who were now in the receipt of from
01 to 2001. or 4001. per annum. Ho was favourable to
reduction cf the number of the clerks, rather than of
their salaries. He trusted that some examination would
b 0
instituted into their qualifications before clerks were
Teulitted, because young men very unfit to enter the
•ease,e_
p re' were sometimes uppointed. Was there any
acre
to have 20 messengers in the Treasury, at a
cost per annum of 9,3151.?
wishiCHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
to the
his Hon. Friend that the true principle of reduction
a';`ce Treasury was rather a reduction of numbers than of
"lea. A reduction of 5,8001. in the salaries and ex-
evtditure of the Treasury had been made within the last
Years. Ile did not think the number of messengers
foe weal,.
Mr.
eQn LACGREGOR believed that at the Treasury, as
• as at the Board of Trade, there were too few mes-
neers, instead of being a superabundance.
e Mr. DISRAELI said there were two circumstances at
of financial
which made it impossible to carry any motion
financial reform. The first was the existence of
Iho
ti Select Committee, whose influence upon the delibera-
o
na of the House he would not venture to foretell; and
the second was, the existence of the financial reformers.
4.7(Cheers and laughter.) As long as those two ob-
f. cies remained, any motion for retrenchment was per-
setly f
CI • d
u e, an he should therefore recommend his Hoe.
%lend to withdraw his motion( [leer, ht ar.)
f'lr• FORBES said that his Hoe. Friend had stated
a.. he believed to be a melancholy truth, and as it was
. no use to divide the House he would withdraw the
mothin,
Iv Colonel THOMPSON hoped the financial reformers
Quid never agree to any motion for a reduction coming
trteni the other side of the House—lronical cheers from
0 Protectionists)—prefaced, as he was about to say
f hen they stopped him, by the assertion that it was
Reese
d upon the sufferings of the country arising out
h the recent changes in our commercial policy.—(Hear,
c/Ir.) The financial reformers were always ready to
stain, in opposition to any such views, that so far as
e
ability of the country to bear the burden of taxation
twas concerned it was vastly better able than ever it was
seinti,?,.r.—(Cheers ) This was no reasen why economy
D„-","tu not ne pursued, but it was a reason for not sup-
ii;‘"ng motions for retrenchment upon grounds to which
',financial reformers could not subscribe.—(Hear.)
e 7 r• HUME protested against the doctrine of the Hon.
e"', Gallant Colon, I. He would support a proposal for
oe'uomy coming from any side of the House. Tte
41;1Y:question at present before them was, whether the
; lance given were more than was necessary, consider-
dig the amount of business done.
RAlr. COBDEN' wished ths House distinctly to under-
and
re-
'o hat v. as the difference between the financial re-
hnrreers on his side of rue House and those who celled
ornselves so, acting with the Hon. Member for Buck-
gilarashire* Theproposition of gentlemen oppositeth
, that the country could no longer continue to pay
j,„ ',awe salariee and wages. because it no longer en-
ate blessings of a corn-law.—(Hear, hear.) That
Cs the principle on which they proceeded; and the
116POsition of the Hon. Member tor Oxfordshire (Mr.
heeriieeys)
was:sim they houldd the
Ayr,
Ass p—s made toy all their ss-thatrvants,s here
whe inuce yearly
hlthor weekly wages, and that they should not stop till
ad come down to te very postman, who delivered
e'ters h
at 10s. a-week. Nohw, it was here teat the financial
tte
'M
o, 55ers and the Protectionists partrel company, and be
quite willine that they should join issue on that subject
ItAore the country; for what would be the result if the
-use declared that the wages and salaries of all public
lE;Tants should be reduced? The Government was the
D -gest employer in the country. It had 8,000 or 9,000
got
employed in the dockyards, and tens of thousands
in°e
the post- office, besides an immense number of persons
th other departments, and the proposition was that it
°41(1 give the signal to the country of a universal and
betltraltaneoue reduction of the rate of wages.—(Hear,
tas-, *) He had already pronounc©d that to be a war
eis-tt wages; and unless gentlemen were prepared to
ke'rilYtout this principle in their own private eitablish-
f st Le wanted to know how in common justice or
s4r"ess they could propose to deal with the Government
Insets differently from their own? If they meant
sh4t there should be a universal reduction of wages in
till country, he would be no party to it. He did not
tilt it was necessary; he did not think it was just, and
fee,liti not believe it was practicable.—(Hear, hear.)
.Su
it.f roue the commercial policy of this country disabling
eh torn Paying the same wages, or rendering labour
t);°Ptr, he could positively say that in Yorkshire at no
Rotiller time had the people been so well employed, or
11,.8uch ample remuneration as at present.—(Hear,
pee) And when they measured the earnings of the.
prePhie by the comforts they enjoyed—by the
.amount of
era, asieg power that the money they received for
/41::,8 Commanded, it was found that never were the
they teter of (Hear, bear)—while, so far from
end
t °ie' a tendency to reduce wages in Yorkshire, the
en
ettn„. eY during the last 12 months had been all the
and
`VaY. Whn there Fore, they argued that wages
4146 should be reduced because the country was
surfer. I
ing from our commercial policy, the facts were
thpf flat them. If the agricultural labourers were in a
Th7etit state from others, why not employ them?
aelV,re Were abundant means of giving employment iu the
14,4caltnral districts if they only increased production,
brought in more capital to be expended on the land
lapsn
oh!")—but let them not come to that House and
w4t, or a reducti n of wages, on the ground that free trade
hid 4, failure, when all the facts went to prove that it
eoupueett singularly successful.—(Hear, hear.) He
el not, therefore, go in with a universal reduction of
14. e,, hut was quite ready to juin with them in reducing
eithlinate salaries, and making them more in accordance
ihenit;he amount of labour performed. He would join
testi', 41, Promoting by every possible way true retrench-
,el 'tit he would never support them in giving what
re,,a7nst cull a spiteful, malicious vote, intended, in the
beak' tn,,iserable and petty spirit of retaliation, in order to
I.free.trade unpopular in the country.—(Cheers.)
ecenr. ')ISRAELI said these occasional conversations on
the
s"°,l:e" seemed to create considerable disturbance on
oeuches opposite, and their occupants always ap-
sekieti to be in a more excited state than those Members
lie'rlcset on his side of the House.—(Hear, hear.) The
there arable Member for the West Riding had assured
trthoot the prosperity of the country, and of the success
eesun. great commercial changes which had taken place
The gets that were hardly referred to before he rose.
tliteri"°use would be glad, no doubt, to hear that the
l'ari" with which the Honourable Gentleman bad a
tlkte'4l3lentAry connexion was in a more flourishing
there than some had been led to imagine; but
sett• were other districts not in so flourishing a
tiler and wbea the Honourable Gentleman told them
Ilavet:sa,..B no lack of employment for labourers, he might
kills 'Jed the Hon. Member for Manchester if the
ienes f that Hon. Gentleman, who was one of the most
sed eloeurotiln t employers of labour, were not at that moment
no or (ilsar ) That was a circumstance, he believed,
the 1,11 isolated nature.—(Hear.) rte did not suppose
teett7ernher for Manchester was so deficient in capital
146." should find it necessary to shut his large estab-
aed'ut, but he believed there was no doubt of the fact;
eons?ertainly it was a state of things that did not at all
for tilt, the description given by the Hon. Member
e(lnntr Nest Riding of the general prosperity of the
tiro Y*--(llear, hear.) The Hon. Member had en-
tin "S Mistaken the lirepursued on that (the Prot( c-
Heti") side of the 110-us'epwith respect to retrenchment.
a .Thet,"l',(l; they called themselves finarcial reformers.
v'ere'd nothing of the kind ; but he believed they
wileal reformers—more so than the gentlemen
tee eireneealied themselves by that name. What were the
Oent mstences of the case? They found distress preen-
tenter; prepares
those classes whom the Honourable Gentle-
teindit`T descrihei as the most importitet, viz., the
:a tie s lesaes The agricultural middle class ea; in a
canie very great distress —a fact which the Hon.
reseted wleild not deny. But the middle classes coo-
': s Ld.istres:eeith commerce and manufactures were also in a
IP e u stat
li n:11on. e• An Hon. Gentleman sitting close to
Member for the West Ili ling had told the that
hee,ooo,ocoithey had lost the last year not less than
(Hear, hear.) That being the cese,
etleasttsti4, ella'o.se around him, who represented the middle
1 a kit it to be their duty t ) support measures
ever. "fl rational retrenchment, not foundee, how.
07 15°,%,t1:1008 narrow view that the Honourable Member
tp'Y hied t Riding had asserted as their sole basis;
nevereleoehnloat brought forward any measure for re-
g:,,lB, hut en account of the distress of any particular
eacount of the distress sf the middle classes
The Ikuourable Member for Oxfordshire