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London, England, 1850-04-12 00:00:00

COURSE OF EXCHA
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Milan • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •

three plumbs .. 12 3-%
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91tona— • • ....
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Bourdeaux .... ••• • • •
Frankfort on Maine
Berlin • • • • • • • • .• • • • • • •
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Naples ..........
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New York, 21 days'sight
Philadelphia ..........

MIMI OF BULLION, FEB OZ,
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Sevilla .... ........ ..

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 11.
PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS, &c. (IRELAND)
BILL.
The House having gone into Committee upon this Bill,
Lord CASTLEREAGH intimated that it was not his
intention to proceed with the amendment of which he
had given notice, increasing the franchise from 101.
o 121.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, adverting to the proposi-
tion which had been made respecting the equalization
of the numbers of electors in boroughs, that it was
open to many objections. There were two modes in
which it could be carried into effect, and they were as
different in principleas they probably would be in detail.
The one would be by adding many large towns to exioling
boroughs, and thus to divide all considerable towns into
borough constituencies. The other would be only to
add towns to very small boroughs, in order to furnish
them with a sufficient number of electors. The proposi-
tion made by the Hon. Member for Roscommon (Mr.
F. French) proceeded on the former of these plans. The
principle appeared to him (Lord J. Russell) to he very ob-
jectionable, and would be very injurious in its operation.
The second plan embraced those cases where, there being
but a small number of electors in particular boroughs, it
was proposed to add adjacent towns and villages to
them, so as to make up the deficiency. Now, although
that certainly would be the safest plan to adopt, he was
afraid it would lead to a considerable conflict of opinion.
and give rise to many general questions of local diffi-
culty. •It would, in the first place, be 'a matter of some
difficulty to decide which were small boroughs, and in
the next to determine what villages should be aided to
them. The proposal, therefore, required 'much
more consideration at the hands of the Govern-
ment than it had yet been able to afford it,
and the Government thought that under those
circumstances it would be much better to adopt the Bill
as it stood, and leave that question to be considered in a
future session. In disposing of these matters, Honour-
able Gentlemen who had devoted some attention to them
had fallen into error as to the number of parties who
would be entitled under a 101. and an 8/. clause, but
from returns which his Right Honourable Friend the
Secretary for Ireland had just received it was quite clear
that considerable misapprehension prevailed on the sub-
ject. Still he did not dispute that when this Bill passed
Vie number of electors in certain boroughs would be
greatly reduced, but under all circumstances he felt that
it would be better to leave this question of the division
of boroughs and towns to be disposed of on some future
occasion.
- Mr. MONSELL pointed out that' when the ; Bill
passed there would be twenty-seven boroughs in Irfland
with .a constituency under 300; .while ut this time in
England there were only ten boroughs with a con*itti-
ency under 300. Portarlingtowcontained a constituency
of 150; but when this Bill passed it would be reduced
to eighty-six, and he put it to the House whether eighty-
six persona ought to possess the right of returning a
Member to that House?
After a few words from Colonel DUNNE and Mr.
FRENCH,
Lord BERNARD said he would like to know whether
the Noble Lord meant this 8/. chaise to be a boi,(2 fide
clause or not? He wanted to know whether the Noble
Lord intended to leave the valuation, as it was at present,
in the hands of the board of guardians?
Clauses 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, and 44, as amended,
were then agreed to.
Oa clause 45, which referred to the appointment of
polling places,
Mr. A. STAFFORD objected to giving the Lord-
Lieutenant the power of appointing polling places. Ho
wanted the English precedent to bo followed in this case.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that in Englund
the polling places were appointed by representation to
her Majesty, or by an Order in Council.
Mr. A. STAFFORD merely asked for the adoption of
the same principle in respect to Ireland.—(Hear, hear)
The Hon. Member then suggested the omission of cer-
tain words in the clause, so as to meet the views he
expressed.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the Bill did
not give the Lord-Lieutenant the power of altering poll-
ing places. It was a power of appointing places for hold-
ing circuit courts for the purposes of registration.
After some observations from Mr. M. J. O'CoatereLn
and Mr. FREWEN the clause was agreed to; as were also
clauses 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, and 53.
On clause 54 being read,
Mr. G. HAMILTON moved, in line 43, the introduc-
tion cf the words— " And provided also, that the ap-
pearance of the name of any elector—other than those
entitled to register for any county, city, town, or borough
in respect of occupation as rated occupiers of premises
of the value of 8/. or upwards—on the list of registered
voters in each year, shall be deemed to be prima faeice
evidence of his right to have his name inserted in the re-
gister for the year then next ensuing."
The amendment was agreed to, and the clause was then
added to the Bill.
Clauses 55 and 56 were then agreed to.
On clause Li bring read,
Colonel DUNNE observed that in cases of appeal the
judge was the party who had the right to decide whether
an appeal should be allowed. Now be thought the words
which conferred upon the judge the right of deciding as
to the appeal ought to be struck out.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the clause was
copied from the English Act.
Sir F. THESIGEIt thought that was a very absurd
reason for supporting the provision.—(llear, hear.) The
objection of the Bon. and Gallant Gentleman appeared
to him to be a well-grounded one, and he did not think
the words ought to be allowed to remain io the clause
unless the Right Hon. Gentleman could suggest some
better reason.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was about to add that
it had been found to work satisfactorily.
Sir F. THESIGER must be permitted to doubt if it
could be found to work satisfactorily in Ireland. He had
known many instances in which one revising barrister
had reversed the decision of another, and there would be
a temptation to the judge to refuse an appeal where his
political feelings were concerned. He did not think that
they ought servilely to follow the provisions of the Eng-
lish Bill.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the clause,
contending that it had been always found satisfactory in
England.
Sir F. THESIGER remarked that there would be no
check upon persons improperly exercising the right of
appeal by their being subjected to costs. What was
sought for was to extend to Ireland the right of appeal
against what might be unjust decisions.
Viscount NAAS was in favour of the amendment.
The assistant barristers in 'lreland were appointed for
life, and in England the revising barristers were only ap-
pointed for a special purpose.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL remarked that if that were
the case the assistant barristers in Ireland were in, a
much more independent position than the revising bar-
risters in England, and therefore more likely to give a
just decision. As to the question of costs checking
vexatious appeals, it was not to be expected when the
penalty could not amount to more than 20s. costs.
Where party objects were to be carried, the right of ap-
peal might be exercised in a very vexatious manner, if it
were subjected to no control. He believed that the only
security they eould give to Ireland against irrational and
vexatious objections was by retaining the words of the
clause as they now stood/.
Mr. NAPIER remarked that the assistant barristers
held office at the will and pleasure of the executive. He
knew of one case where an assistant barrister admitted
a large number of voters, and upon being asked his
reason for so doing, he said he wished to give a liberal
construction to the• Act of Parliament, and that he did
not care for the opinions of the judge:. In the municipal
franchise the power of appeal was given to both
sides, and yet in not more than ten cases had there
been appeals. The power of appeal was in it-
self, though not exercised, a check upon the
inferior court. As to adopting an English precedent to
a case like this, he said that the law of England did not
apply to them at all—that they were in this Bill laying
down a principle that perhaps would be soon followed in
why England.--(Hear, hear.) As he could see no reason
they should screen the judgment of an assistant barris-
ter from a superior, he would, if no one else did so,
divide the Committee.
Colonel DUNNE declared that it was his intention to
go to a divivion. He proposed that amendment by asking
this plain question—was the man who made a decision
to be the judge as to whether it was right or not? He
wished that this, and all other Irish questions, were de-
cided upon their intrinsic merits, and not upon party
considerations.

) Mr. G. A. HAMILTON observed, that the only de-
cision that could he disputed must be one on a point of
law, and he referred to clause 50, to show that it was in]
: possible that the right of appeal could be converted into
an instrument of oppression.
Mr. KEOGH declared that he could see no valid
reason for retaining tho words of the clause. It was
no valid reason that similar words were to be found in
the English Bill. He was not one who was in favour of
the extension of the discretion of judges as to whether
there should be appeals from their decisions; and he
was the more especially not in favour of that discretion
being vested in the Irish assistant barrister:. They
were a body of men of whom he had no wish to speak
disparagingly, but they were also a body of men from
whose decisions he would give the right of appeal.
There was one of the members of that body who for
years had acted as a❑ assistant barrister though he was
atone blirel,—(Lsughter.) The great majority of them
had ceased practice ; a f..!w had been appointed, who
had never held a brief at the bar, and it was very im-
portant t.) those amongst them who were not dis-
tinguished as good lawyers, that their decisions should
not undergo the revision of a superior court.—(Hear.)
As to the objection of the Hon. Member for Kerry,
(Mr. M. J. O'Connell), that the power of appeal might
he made the instrument for rejecting wholesale classes
of voters, he referred him to the 53d clause,
by which it would be found that the appeals could
only be points cf law, and that the power was
given to the assistant barristers of consolidating all
the appeals.
Mr. M'CULLAGH remarked that it was strange that •

the Hon sod Learned Gentleman, desiring not to di,,
parage the assistint barristers, should
yet have gel
that one of them Lad been blind when acting as judo
and that others had never held a brief. He belie,'o
there was no body of men who discharged their don?more to the satisfaction of the public than the assist",.:
barristers of Ireland.—(Hear,) Now, if they did ilois
vest the discretion of the right of appeals in them,
whom were they to vest it? Was it in the discretioei
a factious person disposed to annoy his neighbours?
1/:0
objecCons might be made by the paid agent of a P 4
who desired to diminish the number of electors, An'l
striking out the words cf the clause they would rest
discretion in him, and not in the assistant barrister,
to exercising the right of appeal.
Mr. HERBERT wished to state one fact as tot 9
fli
exercise of the discretion of the assistant barristers. A
had known of numbers being rejected by the
:wit
barrister—as many as 30 at a time, that upon appeal
the going judge of assize were admitted to the Ise' q
He believed that the effect of omitting the words ri° ;11;
be to extend the franchise. He remarked that under:4
present Bill the appeal, instead of being to the go
tl,
of assiz,,, would be an appeal to the Court of
.'",
chequer in Dublin.
AP
Mr. FAGAN stated that the present Bill propose-0
give a double appeal—an appeal on the part oflo
claimant as well as the objector. This was a danger!„
power to give, unless a discretion was invested in the
sistant barrister.
Mr. L. FOX asked if they did not give a discretion i°
the assistant harrister who was to determine wlitsl.3t
there was a point of lsw or not to be decided ?—(fiew')
After a few words from Colonel CHATTERTON,
Mr. AG LI ONBY remarked that, judging by the PI;
lish practice and the English law, he considered this
wholesome provision, and unless he saw some reason 01
making the Jaw of Ireland different from the 10:10
England, he would endeavour to make the law as sits)
as possible. As a member of the profession, he wit9...152;
willing to cast the slightest stigma upon the WO'
barristers of Ireland.
Mr. WALPOLE was indisposed to leave to the jucifil
of any court the power of deciding whether an op 0
from their judgment should be given. In Zngland It
barristers were appointed by the judges for the li
purpose of revising the electoral lists; in Ireland II
barristers were appointed by the executive governoli
and might be removed by the executive. It wag,„ii
thought, then exceedingly unadvisable that they 510wto
have an absolute discretion as to whether there woso
be an appeal or not against their decision. There",
no analogy, in fact, between the laws of the two ai,,cl
tries in tbis respect; and he hoped, therefore, that
4,1'4
Attorney-General would not persist in retaining'
words of the clause.

Mr. F. FRENCH supported the amendment.
Mr. SHEIL remarked that, as the law now stood, p
appeal was only given in one case—that was when id
assistant barristers disallowed the vote. There was",
appeal when the vote was allowed. Now a double glr;
peal was to be given. There would be no appeal on
the question of fact, but only upon the question of
The appeals, then, would not be very numerous. lif,er
these circumstances, he thought the assistant barrP'
should have the power of exercising a discretion.
Mr. KEOGH explained.
.Mr. HATCIIELL remarked that there had •
great frauds and immorality as to the question of vo-ter*
~0
That was set at rest by the present Bill, as the party
put on the registry by his rating. The questions, Pof
that would remain to be disputed were questions
law. The questions would arise in the same -woY,OO
in England, and, therefore, the practice of the
countries was assimilated. The assistant barristers: vino
were-the permanent judges in the counties, sod feu
had a high character' to—sustain in theM, would 'lv
bound, whenever they saw a reasonable ground, to 0,
the opinion of the superior courts upon points of 1141,
The Committee then divided, and the numbers were'
For the amendment ... ..„ ▪
. 33
Against it... ... ..• •.• ••• 102
Majority against it ▪
___69
•,,.
The clause was then ordered to stand part of thel3;".
Clauses to 65 inclusive were also agreed to.
Clauses 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, and 71 were agreed tOWtl
some vet bal amendments.
On clause 110 being proposed,
Mr. CONOLLY moved its rejection. 1119
The galery was then cleared for a division.
numbers were—

For the cause 123
Against it... ... 42
Majority ... ,-83
The clauses to the end of the Bill were agrted to, /Ir'
the exception of clause 118, which was struck out.
The postponed clauses were then proceeded with.
On Clause 44 being proposed,
Mr. HENLEY thought that some scale should or
fixed, and some provision made, for the expenses of C
rying out the registration.
0$
Colonel SIBTHOIW wished to know if these exPev-
,,l
were to be paid out of the Consolidated Fund ?
The ATTOUNE f-GENERAL replied that Of
were.

Colonel SIBTHORP said he should divide the CSI
mittee against the clause.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no divtoso
taking place, the clause was agreed to.
Several other clauses were then agreed to. ijo
Mr. FAGAN then proposed the clause of whichpc,
had given notice—namely, "That when any lands, leo
ments,or heridittiments shall be jointly occupied by 0 I
persons than one, each of such joint occupiers IPA
claim to be rated in the same manner as is hereinbeLo
provided in the case of a sole occupier, and shall
his name inserted in the rate by the guardians ;
and
case of their neglect or refusal, shall be deemed to
rated rated in respect of such premises in respect to whinP,boi
shall have so claimed to be rated; provided alwaysq
the net annual value of such premises, when divide
the number of such joint occupiers, shall give a net
boi
nual value cf 8/. or upwards for eachof such persons'
not otherwise."

After a short discussion the clause was withdrawn' (4
Mr. G. A. IIAMILTON then moved the additit if
the following clause and form of affidavit:---" And
enacted, that it shall be lawful for any person entoo°
to register and vote fur any county, city, town, or o,
rough in virtue of a qualification not requiring ono
tion, to verify tl.e same by taking and subscribink4
oath in form schedule 1), to this Act annexed, in 1:46
superior court of record, or before any judge of 5,9,71)8
in Great Britain or Ireland; and the said oath sheih`no
subscribed by one of the judges of the court before "'bibs
the same was taken, and to transmit such affidavit tnu-gli
clerk of the peace of the county, city, town, or borove
in which the qualification may be situate, on or bt-111
the 24th day of August in any year; and afnu,".o,
(a claim to register having been duly made as lie",o
before provided) shall be taken to be prim/A facie evider
ip
et the right of such person to have his name inserteLho,
the registry or list of voters fur such county, city, t°
or borough.

" Schedule D.

nitf' "I, A. 8., of ,in the county, (or in the
rip.
town, or borough) of , Esquire (or as the delc.er.
tion may be), do swear that I am entitled to regal
and vote for the county (or city, town, or. berougutioi
the case may be), in with() of a qualification consltitbe),
of a freehold (or leasehotd, or as the case maY es
arising out of the lands (or houses or other property'' 0;
the case may be), of , lying, being, or situateths
(naming townland or denomination, and, the
barony, and street, if in a city, town, or borough), °hos
clear yearly value of 1. at the least, over and a-. 0%
all rents and charges payable out of the same, excePti•sh
only public and Parliamentary taxes, county, or P—ifirjor
ceases or rates; arid (where the same is held by der*-4.-
instrument) that the same arises from a deed or W41;0
and t"
/welt bearing date the day of , a •
I have not accepted or procured the same fraudulently,e
nor in exchange for a qualification in any other coup,
city, town, or borough. 0
Mr..HATCHELL (the Solicitor-General for Irelso . ,
opposed the proposed clauie, which he considered 1199,
less, and as calculated to give an advantage to one C:10
of voters over another. By the present law any
having a bona fide claim to register had his right. allows
and it-was only those who had not who were denied the
franchise.
franchise.
Mr.-H. HERBERT supported the clause, and b°Pod
it would be persevered in.
Mr.-NAPIER arid Lord BERNARD also spoke in lA,-
of it.
• After a few words from Mr. French, Col. Rawdov, and
Capt. Taylor,
The. ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the cht,to,
as rli t being in accordance with the principle of the .13/
Mr.-WALPOLE expressed a hope that his Rea
oe,
Fr:end- would not divide the Committee on the eh°
the operation of which, if agreed to, ho feared r'°°
lead to, some abuses.
nd
After a few words from Lord Naas, Mr. French, °-
Mr. Sc-ully,
Mr. WALPOLE gave as an instance of how the eitt0
,dlile
might work, that a person in England might claim
franchise, and no opportunity would be afforded of 16'
ing his qualification.
The clause Has then withdrawn. • in%
Colonel CLIATTERTON then moved a clause, giv, 0
the right of voting for cities and boroughs to that 00.,
of voters called non-resident freemen, but who are rosy
dent within the bounds of the county.
The CHAIRMAN said the clause could not be roofech, e
and he suggested that it should be taken on the bringLt4
Up of the report.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would oppose the 010°v
whenever it was brought up.
The clause was postponed.
The schedule was agreed to, and also the preanablB
and the Bill was ordered to be reported.
The House then resumed.
DISTRESSED UNIONS (IRELAND).
Lord J. RUSSELL moved the second reading 0' '
Distressed Unions (Ireland) Bill.
Colonel SIBTHORP complained that the Bill sh° to
be read a second time at that late hour (a quarter
_A
twelve), especially as certain returns which he had moiv
for were not yet laid before the House, although
,tbeofy,"
had come over. He thought it a surreptitious melbo
proceeding to smother such important returns. ,bo
whole of theta ought to have been printed before
motion. He should object to any further grant to iros
land from the pockets of the people of this country, 1360
from any unkind or unchristian motive, but bWiucti
there were 8,000,000/, already due and unpaid, thrtis
the misrule a the Government, who had reduced
country to a condition of incapacity. This sum lot
to s
not be the last; it was a low dirty bribe to flatter lo
Irish; but they were too honest be led away bi. Li„o,
bribe. The Noble Lord might set steel traps and
guns, but he would catch no game: the people would
be humbugged. It was his dirty to the country on tel
part of the Noble Lord t) furnish the returns ho (coles
S.) had moved fur ; and if he did not do so, it was u„
duty not to bring the Bill forward in such a thin 119
-1-L1",
~
Ile decidedly objected to the grant, and he hoped u::
Members on his side of the House would refuse the fD
tion .of the Noble Lord. Ile should therefore move MI"

the house adjourn.
Mr. FRENCH hoped that the lien. and Ciall°3s