The Sun.
London, England, 1844-08-01 00:00:00

isiohl L ' — ,
e ,rd who brought forward this motion said he up, observing that that was the way in which he could
fhrooted the Government would prevent this discovery blow up a number of vessels.—(Laughter.) He said to
-ePassing into- the hands of other Governments. him, I don't care two straws about your expenses, but I
...ow, h
d_ , e had heard from very high authority that the want you to exhibit te me the effect of the long range.—
_''?overy- was offered to the Government of Prussia, (Hear, hear.) He was not sure if the Noble Lord was
_.'eeki the negotiation with the Prussian Government not present when Captain Warner said he could blow up
wnt off on the very same point on which the Govern- all the ships in Portsmouth harbour froaa the Isle of
te„._e_en4 .that
tahthome refused to have anything to do with it— Wight. He replied, "If you will prove tome that you
Captain Warner required a large stun of can blow up a ship at a distance of 'five or six miles, mI
°' ey beforehand. He hoped that, if any sincere de- will stand up in my place in Parliament and give my
nw
• as manifested by Captain Warner to test his expe- opinion in your favour."—(Hear, hear.) He must say
a!ent, an opportunity would be granted tohim. that Captain Warner did not accept his challenge ; he
the* ll° WARD DOUGLAS said he was very glad always returned to the invisible shell, andohyed at
4,correspondence was to be produced, as it would questions ressecting the long range to take effect at a
euew that the Government had offered Captain Warner distance of five to six miles.—(Hear, hear.) He pro-
titeentY... opportunity of testing the full powers of his inven- , posed that Captain Warner should place himself
Wee and that his colleagues and himself had acted to- ' somewhere near the Downs, and that he
o:araus him in a spirit of the utmost kindliness and fair- should' throw his shell from a certain distance,
tunit (Rear, hear.) He was glad also that an oppor- but finding that Captain Warner was not to be easily
Y w
4, as afforded him Of contradicting, in the strongest dealt with, he had troubled himself no further about the
sZa, a report which he saw in the Times neespaper, matter up to that moment.—(Laughter.) Now, the only
w Llig that there was a difference as to Captain thing of which he thought Capt. Warner was entitledeo
ereer's proposition amonest the Commissieners. complain was, that his request to have the Earl 61 Hard-
* there never was the least"difference between them wieke and the Noble Lord (Lord Ingestre) added to the
sethe m
twee, Ist perfect uniformity of opinion existed be- Commission had not been complie I with. He had
be-
19b ,Ta Sir Edward Owen and himself ; thew came to the such confidence in both those Noble Lords, that he be-
eir'ion that the only part of the alleged invention lieved the addition might have been made without any
41101 was worth anything was that of the " long danger to the public in:erests.—(Hear, hear.) As to. the
he ," and when Sir Byain Martin succeeded him question of price, Captain Warner asked 400,0001 for an
he read over the documents, and, on the 3 fst of March, improvement in war, which, perhaps, as the Right Hon.
_ , wrote a minute, stating that he entirely concurred in Baronet halobserved, never could be used, in cerise-
aw!!tit. his predecessor had done, and he stated his own quence of its danger, and which, even if it could be used,
Pinion that the . only thing worth purchasing was the would soon become known to the enemy, for it was im-
w2r,lg. range." They asked Captain Warner what he possible that such a poWer could be long concealed from
04:pdyido, supposing there were twenty sail of the line the rest of the woed.—(Hear, hear.) He would say
whi , og a roadstead like Torbay, for instance, nothing further on the subject, except that he thought.
%ae,' was three miles, hoW he would close up the Government had given Captain Warner a very fair
pisa.,P„assage—how far his shells were to be chance. He would have them give him a still further
f t \„„`roln each other, whether there was to be a per- chance. Let Captain Warner go to Sonthsea. Castle,
toech-"unnunication between them, and how they were and when he (Sir C. Napier) had stationed a ship at the
the ;silt d out. They asked how this was to be done in Havant light, let him blow up that ship, and then he
eo i:lee of the enemy. Captain Warner said he would would be satisfied.—(Hear, hear.)
Th.' by means of cutters, and schooners, and boats. Mr. AGLIONBY said the Right Hon. Baronet oppo-
eie'Y,asked how he would do it against wind and tide. site and the Noble Lord (Lord Ingestre) were, per-
the said he would do it by a steamer, and that he would haps, the only persons who, from the knowledge of the
vishlock up the passage. He admitted that Captain circumstances, were competent to give an opinion as to
C; that
had discovered an explosive power greater than the recent experiment, and they both expressed their
ClYeletiat Was yet known ; but how was it possible that opinion that the experiment deserved further investiga-
bplaani Warner could lay his invisible shells, and block tion. It was dangerous to listen to a speech like that of
ate: Passage with them in the face of an enemy, with the Gallant Commodore, which had convulsed the House
andi:,(l,,ers, cutters, and schooners, and with perhaps wind with laughter. He thought they ought not to enter into
put `fe against him? It was worse than the attempt to the discussion at all until they had seen the whole a the
thinr on the bird's tail.—(Laughter.) They did not correspondence. The mode in which the examination
~,,,e. that the invention of the " invisible shell " was one of Captain Warner had been conducted by the Commis.- required a moment's consideration. With regard sion to whom the question had been referred, was, to his
lie experiment which hid taken place at Brighton, mind, far from satisfactory. The Commissioners seemed
bad not think it was- any more than what to have arrived at most extraordinary and unfounded
takenWhieh_ place. on the punt in the fish-pond, conclusions from the answers of Captain Warner. He
the see!'" drawn by horses. It was nothing more than knew nothing of that gentleman except what he had
be dame experiment on a larger scale. A vessel must heard in that House, lsut he must say that, with due pre-
siae—,,Pl, in the wake of another, with ropes on each caution as regarded the public interest, he thought the
lepsea* her bows ; the force would cause them to col- experiment worthy of further consideration. He agreed
Ottes 11.1'd if there was explosive matter the force would with the Right Hon. Baronet that the point most worthy
the ee„"ste burst ; but when one vessel chased another, of consideration and of the utmost importance was the
wait, ("i•se, generally pursued was not to follow in the long range. He thought the Government-ought not to
teed ''' that vessel, but to tack in the Wake. This power grudge some expense for the purpose of trying the' ex-
tesTifinot be used to any great extent, notwithstanding the periroent of the long range. He thought it was unfair
strevi„c use which was said had been made of it in de- to Captain Warner to refuse to have Lord Hardwicke
thafth'; two French privateers. He therefore thought and the Noble Lord who had -brought forward the
are thee only thing worthy of seeing was the long range. question that evening, on the Commission. He hoped,
his ex Y proposed to Captain Warner to proceed with though the question was dismissed for the present, it
vesseic,Pe,riment, and for this purpose they had procured would not be wholly - lost sight of. If the invention
for iii:' bat Captain Warner wished to procure a vessel was of the nature stated it ought not to be lost by this
, . ow.,
vessels „
_,. experiment. They wished also to have the country.
tale Air 'latter their own personal charge, and that Cap- Mr. BROTHERTON doubted, even if the invention
tot his
should not choose the place where he was answered. all that Captain Warner proposed, the policy
free; niS experiment. They did not mean anything of- of. the Government encouraging, by premiums, these
fsiri„ehto Captain Warner; they wanted only to decide destructive machines. He thought it would be better
alsojeis "ween the public and Captain Warner. They that the invention should remain with Captain Warner,
perim ished that Captain Warner should make his ex- than that the world should know anything about it.
tare e,nt as if upon an enemy's vessel. Then, with re- Mr. WAKLEY said, if war could be prevented, he
ltes '0 the material which. was employed; if it for one should rejoice at it ; but as long as it lasted he
Slight 8° explosive that it would burst on thought they should get the best means they could of
aitatio PereUasloll or concussion, he had no he- defence against their enemies. He was ghtd that the
whishus in saying that a ball striking the vessel in Right Hon. Baronet was inclined to give an opportunity
the Iv, uch explosive matter was contained would blow to Captain Warner of trying the long range,-because he
kkenl°sie UP- With regard to the part which he had considered that he should have an opportunity of show-
tire 04 a Commissioner, they, of course, declined to ine, what he could do. He did not think that Govern-
heesitiaaptain Warner a guarantee for any sum of money, ment had acted unfairly to Captain Warner ; they had,
they co they had had no power of doing so. They said in his opinion, done more in this case than any other he
Prieciel"_lu have nothing to do with any reward, either in recollected, because they had offered that he should try
oetweer: or amount ; that their duty was to judge his experiments at the Government ?xpense. As
indisid„_,tne public interests and the interests of an to the experiments at Brighton, looking at. what
keettos7hl, and to report their opinions of the experi- had been stated 'in the newspapers, he did not
e Government. He was necessarily called up by think it worth a straw, because Captain Warner had
the niot'
the!, I,l°n made in that House late the Hon. Baronet the been on board that vessel before the experiment was
he e lensher for Wiltshire, the Sir Francis Burdett. tried, and he had the vessel in tow by a steamer. If
colosnecessarily put on the defensive as one of the Captain Warner could succeed in blowing up a vessel
then, sioners. Everything which had taken place in which. he had not been On board of, by means of the
Priet. „°!• uniunications with Mr. Warner was now in long range, then he ought, in his opinion, to receive a
Coioes,is here had never been any differences between the competent reward for his discovery.— (Hear, hear.)
eneetu,' sioners and Captain Warner, except in refer- He regretted the subject had been brought under the
between '0 the experiments ; and, as to any difference consideration of the House, because now the question
c a,
Was, ths,. etain Warner and himself, all lie could say must be determined. ,
Presene!‘ he never -saw Captain Warner except in the Sir J. COCKBURN hoped it would be clearly un-
biliadvidpnaaealesetiof the Commissioner, and every word which derstood that any further experiments would depend
between himself and. Captain Warner, as in- upon Captain Warner showing the power of the long
these s, was contained in the correspondence. In all range. As to the invisible shells, he looked upon them to
ans,,°lllmunications with Captain Warner they had be of little or no moment.
eetoWed by telling him that they were not desirous of Lord INGESTRE replied. After the statements of
but tli,"l„g„from Captain Warner any part of his secret, the Right Honourable Baronet, he would leave the
for to. 7:' "Ley merely wished to arrange the experiments whole subject in the hands of the Government.
awer--‘ing its Powers, and they advised him not to an- With respect to the experiment at Brighton, ho
q thatY question which might tend to elicit any part had no hesitation in saying that there was no
minis
secret. In the letter of 16th of April, they corn- explosive matter in the ship, and that the same
wereleted to, him fully the experiments which they effect would have been produced upon any vessel.
trot
to eterroined to have tried. They took nothing for He thought the Hon. Member for Salford had acted
of the t_t_; thg did nothin but insist on seeing the effect unfairly in repeating those accusations against Captain
long experiments, and particularlyowthatwihthe , respect to the Warner which he had' brought forward last year, and
nge. He did not ki'
fUrth
s rto say. He would had anything which had since received ample explanation; It was a
only say, in conclusion, that difficult thine for Captain Warner to contend single-
had,"e! no objection to thhear
done
of these papers, handed with' all the prejudice which had been raised
feeling certain that they
give ample opportunity forptrhoet:enetioaallorin their power to against him, but he felt confident as to the result of any
whilst providing for the
rests,—(Hear, hear.) trial of the experiments,. investigation which might be instituted, either as to the
Sir C. NAPIER said, the public inte- character of Captain Warner or the merits of his in-
Sir
Noble Lotd
bust that
he vention. There would be no difficulty if he were
part of the that throughout the greater treated with confidence, and not called upon to expose
to doubt his sanity ; . was almost inclined the nature of his invention without being guaranteed a
when he heard him say that reward by the Government, in the event of his experi-
With one vessel Ca to Warner would be able to keep ment succeeding. The offer which Capt. Warner had
4 whole fleet in harbour, he must say he almost came made was that, if he succeeded, he should be rewarded ;
It
to the opinion of Sir Hussey Vivian.—(Laughter.) but that, if he did not succeed, he should not receive a
ord'cud
*tt was strange that. an officer of such talent as the Noble single shilling, and that offer he, on the part of Captain
to fame.. a
es. et his head so completely wool-gathering as Warner, again repeated.
tie „.r.Y..,..utiathing for a single moment.—(Laughter.) Mr. BROTHERTON explained.
eels (sir Napier) looked upon it as one of the wildest The motion was then agreed to.
Heam ever presented to the consideration of the INSOLVENT DEBTORS BILL. -
anllse---(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had given them The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, in moving the second
account
aer h.., , certainly of the way in which Captain War- reading of the Insolvent Debtors Bill, said that he was
his ..*".t'een treated by the late Government, and if all prepared to go into the discussion at once, should it be
h,s_aeuetements were correct, he certainly did appear to deemed necessary. But what he proposed was—to take
hew been knocked about from pillar to
le 3s in the hafS. Th Hd - d discussing 't • and
Post- In 1829, the second reading now, without 1 ,
eat:...-- an s 0 Ir omas ar yan Sir R. to go into .Committee on the Bill on Friday next,
tc;',,,Lwo most distinguished officers.
4; ix - - - at twelve o'clock.
taken. , GESTRE—The Gallant Officer was mis- Mr. HAWES did not object to the adoption of that
toe
lilt came to his knowledge in 1829, and he then course, but before they went into Committee he thought
Sir sort of history of the thing. •
it sie,„_% NAPIER—No matter. It did certainly appear it would be as well that some statement relative to the
Bill should be made.
sinietar thing that when those officers died not a Mr. WAKLEY said the Bill created great anxiety
ferebneeede'eument was found amongst their papers in re- out of doors, and he wished to know if it was the de-
tect to this invention.—(Hear, hear.) Such men of cided determination of the Government to pass it
warner-ess'vere not in the habit of losing papers.. Captain during the present session.
lee then went
.toPortugal. He had some recol- The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it was the un-
stett:lr. o.f id sheing there. If he had found him there doubted determination of the Government to pass the
serial to use this destructive machinery, he would Bill daring the present session. , degireufa have tried it. The Noble Lord. said he was -The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
Dbe.okiej the, late King not to use his invention'against be committed on Friday next at twelve o'clock.
nileis 611QI. He would like to see the proof that King- CASE OF MR. JOHN HEATHCOTE.
,C 1 It Constitutional
dto the use of this invention infavour -
House M. GIBSON rose to call the attention of the
gi.eet, hustltutional Government against a usurper.— to the petition of Mr. John Heathcote, which had
rbqtsetar,t? Then the Noble Lord referred to Sir been presented a few days since by the Noble Lord the
a ei., p 4 rd. Captain Warner was thrown overboard Member for Dorsetshire. Mr. Heathcote had been for
large_ ...Robert. Stopford beeause the Commission was too ten years a superintendent of factories, and during that
aiefrtdh.at were the case, would it not have time had discharged his duty with fidelity and zeal, and
rse illsY to reduce the number 9—(Hear hear.) Then had given satisfaction to his inspector. He had
bt4t4:l etn:triejlxyt:
(imr_3" reemsol . inary statement that ,this extraordi- since been dismissed by the Government on
e•Aiti%hte in war was upset by the Reform BilL— a charge of having written an anonymous
to°ll,.id eotra')t
all was a sort of allegation which he letter to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough,
hiseard lieu) , comprehend. They were theti referred and having denied that he had written such letter. The
ens life--,q, bourne, whom the Noble Lord wand out of charge was so much that he had written the anonymous
to ettled. ' ,lt.rghter)—but the matter was still left letter as that he had denied it, the gravamen of the
(siPriek up anlit Noble Lord was next obliged charge being that he had been guilty of falsehood. He
*a, el Igapier) lieutenant named Webster. Why, he was willing to admit that in general no subordinate was
son that the_ saw Mr. Webster, and he ventured to dismissed by the Government until the charge was
k_n .--eo..
_se never was a greater driveller in this brought against him, and it had undergone a full inves-
isr it Jes‘peese.at laughter.) He need not make any re- tigation, and he believed that the present case was one
the 'dusts, respect
Captain Warner's communication with of misapprehension on the part of the Right Hon. Gen-
%....,exp,rr , ivies'. Well, then, he came at last to - tleman. The facts were these. In March 1843, the
li4r, lent. ,rincitts which were tried. He had not the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had received an
e s?;cledge "ht that Captain Warner possessed the anonymous letter, suggesting certain alterations in the.
entriale Rx‘,..°l a: strong explosive power ; but was there Factories Bill. The letter contained nothing to which
40....wiiii
gailii:ro
ellill'3l9sseast:eie cgeedn chemist in this country, who did any person might not put his name. The Hon. Member
chio,le‘ta whe same ?—(Hear, hear.) Why, therewere for Knaresborough gave the letter to the Hon. Member.
nix, loe et. -. would tell ,them that a single drop of for Dorsetshire, who submitted it to Mr. Homer, the in-
was so powerful, that they could
gif"t of Ca et Y, even go near it. Now, what was the specter of factories, who said that thehandwriting closely
resembled that of Mn John Heathcote, one of' the super-
th cctly Ptain Warner's exploding power? He could
ose under d Mr. Horner wrote to Heathcote on the
ferr.,
~tw,„ _ stand how Captain Warner exploded inten ents.
subject, and Mr. Heathcote denied positively that he had
the "ii', 'eh vees.sels to which the Noble Lord had re- written an anonymous letter to Mr. Ferrand. Mr. Horner
in acealker it `:11"tg had been done forty years ago in then authorised Mr. Heathcote to proceed to his duties,
dad not of ;eaas•—(Flear, hear.) He held in his hand
Nace`.statens:" experiment. (The Hon. Member then and he had every reason to suppose that the accusation
had been met by his denial. Mr, Horner, however, laid
choreal° the Do f a successful experiment which took the correspondence before the Secretary of State for the
er tar' abreast ns in 1805. A large vessel was an- Home Department, without having had the courtesy to
elipee Mile °f Walraer Castle, at a distance of two inform Mr. Heathcote that he intended to take such
aro, r Shelia 54 fr^al the shore, when, by the running of a step. The Right Hon. Gentleman wrote to Mr. Heath-
sei4• ur..!lder. her bottom, she was instantly de- cote, requiring a justification or explanation of the
boutimeot. ittand Sir Sidney Smith witnessed the charge. Mr. Heathcote replied, that he had offered
20%,There was a large copper shell, containing m-
atte os. ofexplanation, but had solemnly denied having
sad , The c_, gunpowder, which was attached to a written the letter. He received another letter from the
lieu e ',I this "ne Carried it under the counter of the ship,
se„:1 Ca_nialeans the vessels were blown up.. He be- Home-office requiring him to state that he did or did
tioie nperaeresa Warner had performed precisely the not write it, and he wrote back in these words :--" I'
do most positively deny, that I am the author of an
_ had lon at 13r.e.
q4dr. d tehton.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") anonymous letter received by Mr. Fernald, and sig.ned,
I •.1- th rop ed
for • e vps , P ono of his invisible shells .An Overlooker.' " The similarity of the hand-writing-
Virqd by isekh,nd whether the experiment was per. • was, however, such, that in the opinion of the Home-
(lie now, h work or by a trick made' no difference.
tietb.,r, hen; \ow did this copper work in practice ?---- offiCe it counter-laalanced the assertion of Mr. Heath.
tai, 'Yard *) lie had cote, 'a
gentleman who had always borne the highest
to • en served his time under Captain
Ni,
beengne the_a
.month of November they were sent to character; and who produced the highest testimonials
esee see ° ds, with all kinds of boats which had from his superior officers, and from the residents
in his district ; and on the 29th ?f April, last
b,,eat 1 n, Gemini, Cancer, and every other animal. t. 4t on .auebt , year, he received his • final dismissal. Tho
-sten - a !Se, ',' Qr) They had these coypers in. the nephew of Mr.. Heathcote, Mr. Gilbert, hearing of-
ei, a, .„., n ember night when th '
til with
cold__ ss, , eir teem were cnat-
noi e. on 7-skewer.) On the first night they ran the charge wrahm .
came forward had been brought against his uncle,
ten tile , , tne second night the set out for the declared that he was the author of
sei y w,,, u,, itoorder to blfl ill A oce They thought that.
biome-office.
eete the , uUt fief order
Pt's ' COeks e they had ow vine the ot. a• way determination of the Home- •
got in sight of the ves- the letter. This declaration, however, did not shake the
die °ate, waln of one of the boats said, "See ! the
at laughter.) Overboard it went, as notwithstanding the p
both the unce and nnepehrewhsadstbaeteemn
egautilhtyadohfefeanisechoorrood.
etase Lu • e
borated by
'vllol tt'ent, the coppers a'so, and to their horror andM Gilbert had written this letter.
et.
_e histor.,
~Yfloated under the boats. That was the ‘his instigation that , r.
a gentleman, who had stated. that it was at
,f 30,0001..L,nd result of the expenditure of 20,0001. and Mr. Heath-
Sit dcstro3,in
p(llee.r, hear.) The Noble Lord te.ll, a After Mr. Heatheote s dismissal, he and Mr. Gilbert had.
gone before the MayAr of Manchester,
that
h,, quito, -,‘. fleet. Why, if he would ••
ketrles Isl.' a 1.11 his place and Allow him g , cote had made a solemn declaration he was not t‘hae.
3(us!ir' authov of the letter, and Mr. Gilbert had made d i
~..7cler under to put a few oun tea of un-
eteuee "er his bottom—(The ration that lie himself was. The Right Hon., Gentles
ea- was drowned tom—(The remainder of the
shouts of laughter.)
g man said that the letter here no resemblance -to the
ate ' he h dLi in repeated handwriting of Atm Gilbert, and the Right Hon. Gentle,-
oe— a hunsel
miter hi,
.z Years ago,. _When ho-wpnt to -C.. aR
weer
f.oto„ f taken up Capt. Warner's case very man had permitted himself and the Hon. Member for.
Salford, to inspect the documents at the Home-office.
• 91Yeti dig a picture of a whole fleii'l iNtalw.nri The Hon. ,-Member' for 'Salford had sledded -that -the
anonymcous letter Wm net the mite lotudwriting M 14r,