The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-15 00:00:00

,aiiitY offered, he thought It was perfectly legitimate for similar to his Right Hon. Friend's proposal, but pre-
: °,BO who had opposed the Bill of 1847 t 1 came f ,rward posing fresh restrictions, led giving no ,selvantage to the
bold
urge their objections to the system In doing so he other side of the question. He must. say that he thought
that
that they were guilty cf no breach ref contract, but that the proposal of the N able Lord opposite, if it were
teat they essisted in an honourable compromise —(Elear, carried, would be the signal for u,detnand that they should
many
In the county which he represented there were have no legislation at all, but rest satietied with the Act
17anY who were altogether opposed to the present law, of 1847, as interpreted by the courts of lay, there-
but who were yet willing to meet the operatives h If way, by inflicting a considerable disadvantage upon the
end to aid to obtaining the compromise afferded by the operative. For his own part. not -agreeing in the vote
precept Bill. He knew that many of the most enlightened of the Hon. Member for Stockport—not agreeing in the
Operatives believed it to be their interest to accept this conclusions to which he had come, he yet founded his
3haZpromise. In...that view he concurred. He believed vote very much on the reasons to which that Elonourabie
also that it would be beneficial to the masters, and he Member attached weight. That Honourable Member
ineuld therefore vote in favour of the Bill.—(Hear.) said, here was a Bill which in his opinion would confer
Mr. ANSTEY said, the Hon. Member who had just great benefit upon those classes in whose favour it was
let down had contended that no pledge had been given proposed to legislate. If this Bill conferred great bene-
set() the operatives in 1847, because the cotton, lords of fit upon those classes,—if at the same time it was
North Lancashire had not been parties to the transac- acceptable to those who had hitherto contended against
etlsl. But would any one pretend that no pledge had a limitation of labour, he must say that they had now a
74 given by ehe House to the operatives, who, on their favourable opportunity of settling this question. If,
;;4et. surrendered a principle, the agitation of which however, they adopted the amendment of the Noble
°nld have been sufficient to rend asunder the whole Lord it would be vain to hope fur any settlement; on
framework of society? Would any one, then, say that the contrary, they must expect that they would lead to
they were not entitled to the benefit of the Noble Lord's great agitation, which, doubtless, would be a great Ellis-
tei
eeendtnent? He could not help expressing. much sur- fortune. With respect to a large proporti ,n of the
ri"? at the course taken in this matter by the Ministers mills which were working only 11i- hours. the Bill would
4;.neCrown. and by the Noble Lord the Member I for make no great difference; but as regarded the shifts and
Bath. who had advised the operatives to accept the mea- relays it would entirely put an end to them. The :ilea-
•
ta'e—that Noble Lord who told the country that he sure would, theiefore, on the whole, be a great' itdvan-
4,ceePted the Bill as an instalment, thus exciting the po tuge to the operatives, and on that ground he should
1 ulttion of the great manufacturing counties, keeping oppose the amendment of the Noble Lord.—(Hear.)
olive their discontent, and bringing them back t) that Mr. ELLIOT observed that the case of the milli
guts of agitation from which they were but just reco- worked by water ought to be taken into account ; they
tiering. As to the whole of the conduct pursued with frequently lost cline tor want of motive power.
he r'rence to this measure, however low his opinion of its Mr. BROTHERTON said he had always been
lopour might be, his opinion of its policy was much favourable to any measures for ameliorating the condi-
ic'taert he should, therefore, give his hearty support to teen of the operatives, and he conscientiously believed
1 amendment. • that this Bill would be highly to their advantage. The
Gentleman
COCHRANE rose to inquire if the Right Hon. rejection of the Bill would carry dismay to the working
classes, while it would give extreme satisfaction to those
b eetleman meant to deny that the amendment would
ii't be an alteration, but merely an explanatory addi- employers who had availed themselves of the range of
e'ta Fur his own part he must consider it an alters- fifteen hours to evade the operation of this Bill. It was
said that the House were bound to carry out the Bill of
takni of the law, and, therefore, a breach of the promise
Ode to the factory operatives. It was said that to this 1847. But they were contented with the name of the
v."! the had a concurrence of the manufacturers, but thing rather than the reality? The present was to all
The ho wanted was a concurrence of the operatives. intents and purposes a Ten Hours Bill. If the House
40 lion. Member for North Lancashire had told the rejected it, the relay system would become more general
'use that he was present at an interview which a de- than at present, and the operatives would be some time
thtetion from the operatives were admitted to with the before they got an enactment that would be beneficial to
'ntrie Secretary, and that a very good understanding them. He should give the present measure his hearty
leith support, and he should therefbre vote against the
oh that occasion been established; but it was not
amendment.
thatll. alone that he required. The House of Commons
thd, entered into an engagement with the operatives; the Mr. EDWARDS said that Hon. Members upon the
ic:4o before them was a departure from that, and pro Treasury bench appeared to be labouring under an erre-
h ft', a violation of their engagement. If the Right neous impression upon one pAnt. In the town which he
he°ll. Gentleman took the view' of this question which represented (Halifax) a petition had been sent up from
1,0 supposed him to take,- then he must bay that that every mill, without one exception, but not a single peti-
Ohl be differing very much from what other Hon. Lion had e.nahated from the manufacturers themselves.
iienibers of that House thought; be did hope, however, Before he sat down, he wished to say that a strong de-
sire existed on his (the Opposition) side of the House to
4'4 the House . would carry out to the full extent the
Otis° which they had made and the engagement they hear the Hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) on
',entered into with the operatives. this subject.—(Cheers.) He could nut understand how it
tehnr- S. CRAWFORD stated that in his communica- happened that the Hon. Member, who was the organ of
tnt with the operatives of Rochdale ho had been called a very great party, and who was generally supposed to
tllieoll by them to give his vote in favour of maintaining be at the bottom of the whole agitation, should sit still,
iit'.Principle of • the measure of 1847-to maintain that and not give the House the benefit of his ideas on this
subject.—(Cheers and laughter, and cries of " Divide.'")
it ita integrity. He held in his possession the names of
h,Ptoptietors of mills who were supporters of the 10 Mr. DISRAELI hoped that the House, notwithstand-
s:rs syritem, and in thus 'laying before the House his ing their anxiety to divide, weuld permit him to offer a
4,44 ohieiona in favour of the amendment be felt that be few observations to explain the vote he was about to
since, although he had been in Parliament more
02_ giving expression to the sentiments not only of the give,
lir tttives .hut of the millowners also. In legislating years than he cared to recullect,and had registered his vote
t,/;)11 a. question of this nature the House was bound to un this subject,. he had never presumed to offer his opi-
hpect the opinions of the working classes, and to accede Ilion to the House upon it. He had listened with great in-
their reasonable reasonable desires. cerest to the discussion which had taken place. The ques-
t"r• GREENALL said that he felt more difficulty in Lion which the House was called upon to decide was
course which he had' resolved to pursue in conse- one of a serious though a very simple character. More
4;
t'ee Of what had fallen from the Hon. Member for than 30 years ago, as the Hon. Member for Stockport
Garth, Lancashire. Upon the present occasion he (Mr. tied reminded them, the working classes of the north of
ile1'0litill) had no chdiee open to him. Ho was in almost England originated an agitation in favour of those prin-
b, communication with the operative classes upon the ciples which the Legislature recognized as law by the
delect, and it would be next to impossible for any one Act of 1847. In looking upon that event with the ad-
terlerestimate the intense int-Test with which they re- vantage of experience, and taking that general view
led this question. Their feelings were alive and strong which had prope,ly characterized the discussion upon
" subject. The measure of 1847 was one which they Ibis subject, he perceived in that movement of 30 years
40f atruggled all their lives to obtain, and they lest it by ego what might be fairly described as the action of an
lehatilt of theirs ; it evaded their grasp by es mere Par- over-worked population.—(Hear, hear.) And it was a
ish'ntary blunder. It was, at all events, his deter- subjeth of congratulation ghat in this country a large
liehUtion not to let the workints man be able to say Ration of the community, finding themselves in such a
th be had not kept faith with him. As to children, Position, had no recourse to those acts and to those
4117 would baldat sufferers by the proposed change, measures which genet-My distinguished a people tinder
hi arou
nd thus much he trusted that he had fairly such circumstances. They did not attempt to find re-
leefore the. House the grounds of the vote that he in- lief in conspiracy and in combination; but, 30 years age,
tended to '
Lord
gives when the means of education of the working classes
hersd J. RUSSELL said, that before the House pro- sere more limited than at present—when the political
611 ettt to divide upon the amendment of the Noble Lord instruction that pervaded that order of the community
tlij,aft. anxious to state the grounds upon which he was much less in amount than at present. they still had
tetttid support. his Right Hon. Friend. The advo- confidence iu the Parliament of the country, and in
11441ar the amendment had. argued as if the Act of 1847 appealing to that Parliament they sought relief from
4,latisfiletorily provided for the protection of the opt.- the sufferings they experienced. Well, the 30 years
ithl "eand that the millowners alone now came forward elapsed, and it was not until the year 1847 that the
letentand an alteration of that Act. To this he could Legislature recognised the authenticity of those convic-
.cions, and that by a legislative enactment they had
iteattent, He was favourable to the measure of 1847,
sanctiocel the instincts of a working community. He
Ictlsi he considered, that it would be productive of great
rehtatages to the working classes, that they would, in did not feel surprised that so great an interval had oc-
Vtitience of its provisions, have more time than they curred between the expression of the people and the
linusly enjoyed for rest, for domestic duties, or for act of the Legislature. At all times to legislate with
kiikeet-euteat in their own families; but, in supporting respect to labour—apparently to offer any check to the
of production, were subjects whitth might well
tat' measure he had not at the time a full view of the power
tlie'ltte consequences which such a measure might pro- appal statesmen and senates. He could very easily un•
floi,:, he did not foresee that it would have the effect of derstand that it was only after much deliberation, after
qtkg Sway with one-sixth of the manufacturing power sagacious hesitation, after a due acquaintance with the
It. ~ebuntry; that it would be a diminution of wealth wants and feelings of the people, that the Parliament of
114', very great amount; but he still retained this country had sanctioned the principle that the work-
Iti4,,n,Piaion that the Act of 1847 was based upon sound mg people had wished to be formed into law. They all
140Ples. .He had no desire to see it repealed, recollected the predictions and prophecies with respect
for his. own part, being a supporter of it, he had to that bold and rash Act, as it was deemed. It was
Pip quite -willing to leave it undisturbed during the acknowledged to be a great legislative experiment—had
lth:ht session of Parliament ;to subject it to the inter- it filed?—(Cheers.) One would suppose that, although
th . hen it had received, and leave it to the courts of . the Legislature were justified in taking that course—
'.. But he would now ask who had proposed to alter a difficult, perilous, but perhaps a necessary and a
hee'olit those who were favourable to twelve boors, or politic course—yet that the experience of the time
ho tin Ase who might be content with eleven hours—by that had since elapsed bad been such as to convince
11:3 iai the change recommended ?—by none other the country and the liaise that they had committed
hteeteke Noble Lord' the Member.for Bath, who now a great error in passing the Act of 1847. It was
tl4i"brsvard as the advocate of the young persons, de- strange that at a moment when they were told the
the,,ghfliat it had become necessary to call for the in- class with which these winking men were connected
11014;eace of Parliament. If be were bound to pro- were more prosperous than they were ever known
ktehne, ate opinion upon that proceeding, he must look to be,—that at a time when materially and morally teat
~tioi baba:. really did, and not speak as if it decided the working pepulation were more improved than they had
MI t kitiestion. That was . not the ease—it did not de- ever been before,—that the Li gislature should be called
„NCI whole question. The Bill of 1847 and the Bill of upon to alter and to revise that legislation, and to ac-
Nal°9lltained no such provision as that which limited knowledge that the law was a mistake, when it was ad-
-11'44 tiar4ntthieribed the working periods of the day within mitted that the consequence a had been most successful.—
le es of six o'clock in the morning to six o'clock in (Hear, hear.) There was one consideration connected
tksithieeink. ' ljuder, the Acts of 1847 and 1848 labour with this subject which the House must not forget.
tee commence . at half-past five, or be made Long as was the period during which the agitation had
b``,4lttlate at half-past -eight o'clock ; and at proceeded which heralded this law, notwithstanding that
~ 41.110 .within those fifteen hours the ten it had passed during a period in which political excite-
Ls e ,Pf . labourh might be exacted ; therefore meat and party passion periodically excited the greatest
~.4 rht,PBent ._ proposition. was a different matter, possible feeling, yet, he would not say by a lucky acci-
e tht kli himself entitled to deny that in thiis dent, but rather by a .heppy providence, the factory
Itti ih era, was the. least breach of faith, and to deny thiestiou had never been indissolubly connected with
,:eeini.the proposition of the Noble Lord the Member the fortunes of any political party; and when, in 1847,
keetstiektiester could be. regarded as a carrying into that important statute was passed, it was proposed by
0., to PrQvisiop-which Parliament had made. Fur- a distinguished Member upon the Opposition side of
till Whate 'Nits what appeared to.him a forced construe- the House, it was cordially supported by the Prime
lite
fist( came
was construed to mean that Minister of the country, in oposition to the
01 i'rstohame ..to work at any hour whatever were opinion of some of his own supporters; and
ttltt.e..have, commenced_ their labour at 5 o'clock. It it was passed,—not, incised, with the consent of
hetZ., in the..power of the millowners to exact the all parties, but in a manner that convinced the
hat": d quantity of labour at any time between the people that it was the result of the impassioned
01,71,-.1411-Pust 5 o'clock in the morning and half-past deliberations of Parliament, and not the consequench of
'1(11;`h-. in the evening—there was no doubt—there any party combirlation. The operation of the Act hav-
-6 .arto doubt—whatever' upon that point, and if fag been tested by experience, and having been conco-
the ",ftteted in that respect no uncertainty, it was 'ole- .nerant with the prosperity of the manufacturing districts
It It eh ht tionie.alteratien in- the law must be made— —not way with the maietenance but the increase
ythtCtlh restrictions •must be imposed, in order that of wages of the labouring classese-not only with
te7ne,tsshould
.be conferred; and if.being called the maintenance but the . increase of exports or
l'!Ii wtegielate with the Noble Lord the Member for commodities to those markets in which they
tttir, not an alteratienehif patting on a fresh re- a ere told the manufacturers would be materially injured
1
itheeei.tth the effect of three hours effecting the ene- by this law—without the colour of a case against the
(7140,h`ft o.f young persons, and in effsct two hours aetion and consequences ef this law, the House, by a
a: 0, labour:being given• in the whole week—if that strange combination of circumstances, found themselves
ielli h, amount to a very . marked alteration, he suddenly called upon to give a verdict upon its character.
t:Zi :.not,. understand what was meant. ' As What he wanted to know was the reason why, after so
t, ei:ien proposed to Parliament to depart from the prolonged an agitation in the country, after so elaborate
thlh.Jhot .1844 and 1847, on the whole the question and calm a discussion in- that House, the Parliament
qiil o' Itself into this—would the change be a benefit that passed the Ten Hours Act should be called upon
classes?—and to that he.might say they virtually to repeal and abrogate it?—(Cheers.) If, in•
6tlit k!ative
Otttolatitiony of ..the B M
the on, ember for Stockport, deed, the consequences that had been predicted bad oc-
tlklttno f'tained doubt, upon the whole •it would curred he could understand their present position. If
114 t giPiltage to that class.., If -the millowners on the he Members for Manchester and the great towns of the
Ithier::W,ere contending . for a twelve hours. or an'north had come forward and told them that their mills
thheLnhe Bill, WAS it not consistent with the wisdom -were stopped because they could' no longer export
ti:ti.Rini so to legislate us that benefit might be to these foreign markets—if they could state
ii litlitt hieSbeoPeeative by a measure that should be that the working classes were remunerated for their toil
1,4'tiii,,,,,t9 the.millownersr, If such advantages could by diminished wages, if they could give the House a
vai„,"9,• be thought, it ~ would • have the effect of gloomy picture of' the state of the society with. which
kellek'tway many objections to the Bill, and he must they mixed, and of which many of them were the
hisle,ce could not perceive any force in the objection leaders, then he could understand that_ the Howie,
hikt4as.sa they passed the Bill. of 1847, they were not hastily, precipitately, or without e• cause, pro-
ke'l te,,rethe to pass the Bill then before , them. That eceding to repeal the Act cf 1847, should yet seriously,
hmetteViouse was. then called upon by the amend- calmly, and searchingly examine these complaints and
l‘tl eot7 was not .a mere correction of a technical investigate their causes, and if they considered that this
ltsite thleclin the Bill.of • 1847.0 r the. Bill of 1844, law was the cause of those adversities, that they should
ka he.° contrary, a new enactment, more restrictive be prepared and not ashamed to repeal the Act which
ii4tr),:9F t. 9 produce fresh agitation .throughout the they had passed.—(Hear.) The Prime Minister would
IV h. he.gehting been then in favour of the measure of only be doing his duty it he had come forward and con-
kihmoti Nought that the House ought to adopt. the pro= 'fessed that error of judgment; because in 1847 he had
k'% ti,°!!, his Right •Hon. Friend; and he urged this lent the high sanction of his justly great name to the
It, ti,titli,P9a the. House with the mare confidence as he passing of that law. But, so far from thii, night after
'1441 Prepared to maintain that no compact had been night, and whenever a fitting opportunity happened, the
thkt's %Tar
~ by parliareept.
.when they passed the Bill. of were informed by Hon. Members connected with they
Nitkpy 2,4era.was no feeling: among the operatives industrious classes—more particularly affected by this
fektehtrieheihreemenehad ever been concluded. The measure—that the industry of the North was never
Ott Putd in this matter by -the Noble Lord the so flourishiog.—(e Hear, hear," from Mr. Macgregor.)'
V1:1:11. 00r. Bath offered the best possible testimony in He observed that an Hon. Member called out " Hear,
deiliteheethe.proposition•
.of his Right Hon. Friend. hear, " who had not voted fur the Ten Hours Bill dur-
hittitelte clauses were proposed the Noble Lord ad- ing ;he present session, but who did vote for it on a
O'y Pahlished Jotter to the. operatives -of this former occasion.—(Cheers and laughter.) These Hon.
kfl'tilliyt!.eciiiinieeding them to accept the propositions Gentlemen assured gentlemen sitting around him that'
N 7, th4l4 Right lion. Friend. When the House re- the labouring population were in the enjoyment of a
ett fi; that. that recommendation and advice pro- higher rate of ' wages, and that they had a greater corn-
'''Ort'-1!1 a:man who had shown the utmost zeal in wand over the necessaries of life than at any former
kt It% l'?" of -` '
te 141 - the. working .classes—who had studied so period.—(Hear, hear.) Were not these tests of menu-
' 'lli 7tthee. -
:4 qteeh tr Interests—who bad devoted such great fecturing prosperity, so many proofs of the wisdom of
Nired•-„,;heir claims—whose character and influence the Legislature? These were your own accounts of
iiiati teh,4heiraphesihle for them, being thus called your good fortune,. and with this result' of the working
ihsbnftse Ise or eejectShe counsel which that Noble of the Bill, why did they ask the Legislature to repeal
eittil vase-``.t4 them, they must see that his tea- the Bill? They did not come forward boldly,
Nti 't '''''' of .th highest.iThe II r ble the House to repeal the
kt „? ("hi e value. , onou a Bill.—(Cheers.) and ask
'They could
iti Cgs North...;,, Lancashire had told the House not tell the House that the working classes were inspo-
04i°, PrteZent.theintelligent operatives were favourable veriehed and discontented. It was not upon a ground
Ni`t.rlrs'Bl4oo of ,his Right Hon. Friend. [lt was so broad, upon a plea so clear, that they asked the
liii!tl I}, toss thehable by Mr. W. Patten that he House virtually to repeal the law; it was because they
4kt
slci,to'o..lle,great body of the operatives were fa- had taken advantage of a nisi prius exception t) a
kstitZe. 'Ri,"".l If that were the case,• then he thought statute.—(Cheers.) They were about to legislate upon
tcla 'neg °ll:nd was good which Parliament had for what should influence the fruits of a great industry, and
It.' Pri., :With: the
Bill, and not adopting. the amend- the reward of a great working community; and, instead
til4,l°. 711 Pr'? Posed change did very materially amend of coming forward upon an intelligible principle, they
itkotlichnetiii:at eonfesiedly a useful proposition, and took advantage of a flaw in the Act of Parliament and
htti,e'' rhehieeauffantage to two parties.. On the one were about to destroy the result of a3O years' agitation,
ei: e'lll-''crisirithe labourer to a period of the day sanctioned by an Act of Parliament, ratified by the con-
Nl:' the°qt to'"ir,g and six, instead of from half-past currence of all the-great parties of the state, and sealed
ere w-Akirl... sir-past eight, On the other hand, it with the approbation of the Prime Minister. They were
+l ether theerur an , advantage of two hours a week; about to refuse the people of this country the conic-
ilchteet.nt by
the
a fairness and equity in the pro-, quencee of all that agitation and the legislation that had
lehee'efor es'lh Proposition of the Noble Lord. tee followed it, not upon the merits of the case, but by arts
'544,1 te„ th:"2oStester they were to have new legula- that an attorney would despise. (Cheers.) It was
ant NT It entirely on one aide; not carrying stated by the. Noble Lord (J. Russell) that the Noble
"hi 1847, which contained no clauses Lord the Member for Bath (Lord Ashley) wished the