The Sun.
London, England, 1844-08-08 00:00:00

'1 tf NI Z4' D 0 Ws IT R wy EVENINA_AUGUST 164,1 i

nn7f-,r:,117e. At prent all the tKronghfaYes round am
&eo i ri ca.
The aggregate loss will probably not be less than
20,0001. The building had only been erected two or
three years, and most of the warehouses were well stored
with goods.

I The clause was then agreest to, and ordered to be
added to the Bill.
The SOLICITOR- GENERAL then moved certain
verli..:l alterations in various clauses. '
Mr. SPOONER moved, as an amendment, that the
operation of, the fifty•fonftli and fifty-fifth clauses
should be postponed until the month of March.
I Ile was aware that he was occupying a very un-
gracious position in appearing there to advocate
the continued imprisonment of various poor debtors
now waiting for their liberation. He objected to
the clauSe because it would inflict a great injury on
industrious artisans in large towns. He admitted that
the state of discipline in small debt prisons was bad, but
they ought not to pass a measure of this nature merely
cn account of local mal-administration in prison discip-
line. He cautioned the House against attempting to
remedy one evil by calling a greater one into
existence. If this. Bill camp into operation at once
it would be impossible for the labouring man to get
credit, and credit was necessary to his subsistence.
and it would certainly greatly palliate the evil to which
the labouring classes would be exposed by this Bill to
defer its coining into Operation until the month of
March, in order to give them time to prepare themselves
for the change which was about to come upori them. To
Show the beneficial operation of the power of ordering
imprisonment being conferred on Courts of Requests,
and the small amount of imprisonment actually inflicted,
he would state to the House that since 1808 the number
of cases in Courts of Requests throughout England had
amounted to about 4,000 annually, the number of execu-
tions amounted to about from 1,000 to 1,200, and the num-
ber of persons imprisoned amounted to only 150 annually.
He had presented a petition from the Chamber of Com-
merce of Bristol, pressing the necessity of delay ; peti-
tions to the same effect had been presented from Man-
chester, from the shopkeepers of Southwark, and other
places, and the) all prayed for delay. If this Bill were
carried in its present shape, it would inflict a great in-
jury on the large body of tradesmen who had given
credit to the labouring classes on the faith of the law
continuing in its present state. He had received various
letters from different tradesmen, who complained that if
the power of imprisonment was taken away, they would
be deprived of the security on which they had given
persons credit. As they diminished the fear of im-
prisonment, they took away the stimulus to pay.
The House had had no opportunity of examining the
evidence upon which the House of Lords had decided in
favour of this Bill. He should have liked to have had
a Committee of Inquiry before the House decided in
favour of this Bill, for although those who had intro-
duced it were perfectly competent to decide upon general
principles, yet they did not pdssess that practical know-
ledge of the subject which would enable them properly to
legislate upon it. It would be a dangerous experiment
to change the system of credit so suddenly as it was
proposed to change it by this Bill, and, he besought the
House to pause before they acceded to , the Bill. lie
" from and after the passing of this Act" be omitted, and
concluded by moving that in the 54th clause the words
the words "from and after the 25th of March next" be
subitituted for them.

Mr. KEMBLE seconded the motion. This was an
ex post facto law against the creditor, by depriving him
of the security of imprisonment, on which security he
had given his debtor credit. He had returns from a
Court of Requests for theyear 1839. In that year, 5,682
causes had come on for hearing ; 2,543 executions had
been issued against the person, and only 25 against the
goods: 1,741 of those executions had not been carried
into effect ; 990 of the persons taken had been discharged
before the terms of their imprisonment had expired, and
478 only had suffered the full period of the imprison-
ment. It was well to consider the case of debtors, but
creditors ought to be considered also.
Mr. 11. BERKELEY had presented a petition against
the Bill which had been agreed to at a most respectable
meeting of tradesmen in Bristol ; but after the statement
of the Solicitor-General and the Right lion. Baronet, he
was convinced that legislation was necessary, and that
he could not hope for delay. He had stated as much at
the time, although he had stated his ob ections to certain
clauses. He thought it would be advisable that some
little delay should be interposed before the Bill came into
operation ; but if the Government were determined that
the Bill should come into immediate operation, he would
advise the Hon. Member for Birmingham to withdraw his
motion. If he persevered in the motion, he (Mr. H. B.),
although he wished for delay, would be compelled to
vote against him, for he believed it would be be a greater
evil to lose the Bill than to have it come into immediate
operation.
Sir J. GRAHAM had Never heard a fairer speech
than that of 'the Hon. Member for Bristol. He be-
lieved that if the measure ought to come into ope-
ration at all, it ought to come into operation imme-
diately. With regard to the working classes, it
was said that the Bill would entirely deprive them
of credit. If that were the case, it could make no dif-
ference to them when the Bill came into operation. He
could not think that legitimate credit would be at all
narrowed. Many were annually imprisoned, without
he believed much benefit to the creditor and to the
system of credit. With respect to the shopkeepers, he
could think of nothing more unwise than the measure
proposed by the Hon. Gentleman. Every creditor
during that six months would pursue his unhappy
debtor to the utmost, as the gaols would be crowded,
and the amount of misery which would be inflicted
would be appalling. The Bill gave the creditor a remedy
against the property, and if the debtor gave up all his
property, what more could the creditor require?—(Hear,
hear.) No doubt it was a shorter and more summary
process to sieze the person than the goods of the
debtor ; but it was most unjust in cases where
a debtor had no property to apply the torture of im-
prisonment, in order to extort from his relations and
friends the means of paying debts which they were
not morally or legally called upon to liquidate. The
Bill was supported by the Members for the
Tower Hamlets, Finsbury and Lambeth, and the consti-
tuencies of those places were shopkeepers and not debtors.
The measure had been well considered, and had received
the highest legal support. It was approved of by the
Lord Chancellor and the ex-Chancellors, by Mr. Justice
Wightman, by the Chief Baron, by the law officers of
the Crown—all the authorities were in favour of it. The
case of Scotland, too, was a case in point. There
the power of imprisonment for small debts had
been abolished, and although that measure had
been opposed by the same arguments as this
measure was opposed,
yet it was now admitted that the
system had worked well in Scotland, so that they had
authority and experience in favour of this measure. He
was persuaded that in exercising
greater caution in re-
spect of credit, the retail shopkeepers would be conduct-
ing their business on a safer and better system, and the
poorer classes would be benefited by being freed from the
system of extortion practised on their relatives and
friends by the system of imprisonment. He therefore
pressed upon the House the necessity of rejecting the
motion.
Mr. NEWDEGATE thought it would not operate
favourably on the morals of the poorer classes that they
should be permitted to evade the guarantee of their
e eßr
Rf for
Tll Birmingham.i o N
Mr.mb
liberty which they had given to enable them to procure
the means of subsistence. He should vote with the Hon.
couldM not bring his mind to the
conclusion that it would be wise to adopt the motion of
the Hon. Member for Birmingham. The arguments of
the Honourable Member were against the principle of
the measure, and not in favour of delay, and the House
that
t bbidtl s s
r Hon.
al m HARDY
ay .
was necessary, in order that small shop-
was almost unanimous in its approval of the principle.
d
Mr. HAWES said the lion. Member for Surrey had
given some accounts respecting the Court of Requests in
Surrey, and the number of cases brought under the
consideration of that Court. The Hon. Member, how-
ever, said nothing about the costs which were incurred
in that court, and which were, he understood, enormous.
He (Mr. Hawes) contended that the present system of
imprisonment was not beneficial to the creditor ; on the
contrary, it was greatly to his disadvantage. That
system was only calculated to feed revenge in relentless
m e withoutmber producingßirmingham anybeneficial result. Under
creditors
these circumstances he could not sup port the motion of
the
could not see why imprisonment for
de
under 20/. should be abolished any more than for
deb
ts amounting to 401. or 50L He should support the
motion
of the Hon. Member for Birmingham, believing
h
keepers might make themselves acquainted with the
provisions of this measure. When a poor man asked
for credit, he said, "I have no goods, but, if I do not
pay, you can imprison me." It was, therefore, unjust to
abolish the present system.
Mr. WAKLEY would put it to the Hon. Gentleman
whether such a system of credit was founded on a good
basis. No, it was not—it was most injurious and de-
moralising. The only sound basis for credit for the poor
man was good conduct and good character. The
Honourable Member for Southwark (Mr. Humphery)
not that
sdisgrace
only
calculated to feed
had just told him that a great number of persons were
confined for debt in the Compter prison, and the highest
a
to a country like
his debt
?
revengeful feelings ; and if they were to continue it, that
House, instead of being called the House of Com-
mons, ought to be called the House of Shylocks.
For the sake of the working classes he was quite w aTsh9espresent Was
system
w
con-
tent to receive this Bill. He believed it would be bene-
ficial to the shopkeepers themselves. The Hon. Mem-
ber would serve his constituents much better by allowing
his motion to be negatived without a division, instead of
beins, left in a small minority. As the House had deter-
mined by large majorities that the principle of the Bill
should be adopted, he hoped the Bill would come into
operation the moment it had received the royal assent.
Mr. SPOONER said he should be content to let his
motion be negatived without a division.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE concurred in what had fallen
from his Hon. Colleague, and reminded the Hon. Member
for Birmingham that it was that town which had taken
the lead in the opposition to the system it was sought
to abolish.
The motion was then negatived without a division,
and
the Bill read a third time and passed. -
ART-UNIONS.

Mr. WYSE moved the further consideration of the
Lords' reasons for rejecting the amendments of the Com-
mons on the Art-Unions Bill.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said the object of his Hon.
Friend was to insist on these amendments being retained.
The Lords were not satisfied that the parties origi-
nating these Fine Arts distributions bad acted
like the Art-Unions in ignorance of the law.
But they had followed in the footsteps of
the Art-Unions, and when among the share-
holders and patrons were such men as the Duke of
Cambridge and Lord Denman, how could they imagine
that they were breaking the law ? The flotue, he un-
derstood, was to meet to-morrow, and, if necessary, he
should have no objection to a postponement of the
question.
After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER,
Mr. WAKLEY said, till the Art-Unions were stopped
by the Government, no one was aware that they were
illegal ; and it was on the faith of their being legal

that the parties alluded to by his Hon. Colleague had
commenced their.proceedings. He was perfectly wil-
ling to leave the matter in the hands of the Govern-
ment, confident that full protection would be given to
all parties.
Mr. B. ESCOTT was not sure there was not a dis-
tinction between the two cases. Art-Unions were es-
tablished for the encouragement of art without a view
to the profit of individuals, whereas the other was that
of individuals engaging in lotteries with a view to profit.
Mr. ACLANI) said the parties had been driven into
the course they had taken, in consequence of the loss
the art-unions caused them, in self-defence.
', Sir J. GRAHAM .said, as this was a question of in-
demnity for the past, he thought both parties ought to
have an equal benefit from it, as they had both acted iu
ig.norance of the law ; at the same time, it would be for
the Government to consider whether the use of
lotteries, either by . companies or individuals,
should be tolerated in future. As far as he could
promise it, the Members of the Government in the ()flier
House would support the suggestions of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Waterford.
The amendments were then ordered to be sent back
to the Lords for consideratiOn.
A message from the Lords brought up several Bills.
On the motion of Mr. T. DUNCOMBE, the follow-
ing return was ordered, namely, A return of the name of
every person employed in the General Post-office, with
the date of each appointment, the nature of the duties
performed by each individual, the amount of salary at-
tached to such duties, the fund from which such salary
is paid, distinguishing what portion, if any, is derived.
from fees.; aso, a similar return from the General
Post-office, Dublin.
SAVINGS' BANKS.

The Lords amendments to the Savings' Banks 11

was agreed to, after a few observations friHn Mr. HUME
and the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
MEDICAL PRACTICE. •

Sir J. GRAHAM moved for leave to bring in a Bili
for the better regulation of Medical Practice throughout
the United Kingdom. The Right Hon. Baronet warmly
complimented the medical profession in this country for
the high professional position they held in science, and
then stated the various legal operations under which the
duties of the profession were now carried on. The
object of the present Bill, however, was to amend
many of the provisions of the present imperfect law.
To put down quackery was hopeless ;but be thought en-
couragement ought to be given to the clever man. He
proposed no restriction to private practice.—(Hear.)
His principle was this, that none should be
eligible to fill medical or surgical offices except
those who were declared to be so by compe-
tent authority. He proposed by th!s Bill to repeal
all acts and charters which imposed restrictions on the
medical profession. The most important feature
of the Bill was the establishment of a Council
of health in the metropolis in direct connection with the
executive Government. The composition of the Council
of Health he proposed to be this:—The Regius Professor
of Medicine in Oxford, the Regius Professors of Physic in
Cambridge, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Dublin; one phy-
sician and surgeon, chosen by. the College of Physicians
in England, and one physician in Scotland and Ire-
land. Then, in addition to this, six persons were to be
appointed by her Majesty, with the advice of her Privy
Council, and of those six one was to be a physi-
cian of the English rural districts, and one a
surgeon. One physician and one surgeon were to retire
annually, but he proposed that they should be eligible
for re-election, with the consent „of-the Crown. He
then proposed that the Council should have a secretary in
London, and also in Scotland and Ireland. He then
proposed to have a register kept of all the phy •
sicians and surgeons ; that the present bodies should
have power of granting licenses, but it should be at the
option of the Council of Health whether they would
register them or not, and every person that was
not registered could not hold any public situation.
He also proposed that all persons that were registered
should be exempted from attending juries and other
things to which they were at present liable. To those
who were now practising he proposed to give twelve
months, to apply to be registered. He proposed to im-
pose a penalty of 20/. on those who practised in any
public office without .registering. He proposed that no
person but those who were registered, or who had
practised before the passing of this Act, should be en-
titled to recover at law for any charges for attendance
or medicine. By this means registration would be the
means of showing who were competent practitioners,
and who were not. The Right Hon. Baronet concluded
by moving for leave to bring in the Bill.
Mr. MACAULEY seconded the motion. To the ge-
neral principles on which the measure was founded he
felt bound to give his approbation. He believed that
the measure would give the greatesrsitisfaction.
Mr. WARBURTON approved of the principle of the
measure though he would not pledge himself to its
details.

Sir J. GRAHAM, in answer to a question from Mr.
Gaily Knight, said that he proposed to repeal the Apo-
thecaries' Act altogether, arid to deprive them entirely
as a body from granting licenses to practice, but he in-
tended that they should be associated with the College
of Physicians in doing so.
Mr. G. KNIGHT thought the medical profession
would not like very much the despotic character of the
Council that was proposed by the present Bill.
Mr. WAKLEY was sure that the present Bill would
not be satisfactory to the medical profession. He be-
lieved that the Right Hon. Baronet had a desire to put
the medical profession on a better footing, but he had
been wilfully earwigged and deceived in the present
case.—(llear, hear.) It was perfectly impossible that
the Right Hon. Baronet could ever carry this Bill. He
should feel it his duty to use every form which
the House allowed him, to prevent the measure
from becoming law. He trusted the ,Right Honour.
able Gentleman would reconsider the question, and not
be led away by the advice that had been given him in
the Home-office.

Mr. lIAWES supported the Bill, believing it would
place the medical profession on a better footing. He
thought that the importance of the measure could not
be overrated.

After a few observations from Sir J. GRAHAM,
leave was given to bring in the Bill.
Sir J. GRAHAM postponed until to-morrow his
motion for leave to bring in a Bill relative to the law of
settlement in England and Wales.

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, with respect to the pro-
ceedings of the House, it might be convenient that ho
should state that the House would sit to-morrow at three
o'clock, for the purpose of receiving any Bills the House
of Lords might send up, and that on Friday, instead of
Saturday, his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the
Government would move the adjournment of the House.
The other orders of the day having been disposed of,
the House adjourned at Eight o'clock.

THE FATAL ACCIDENT AT

WORCESTER.

The following are additional particulars of the sad
occurrence announced in The Sun on Tuesday.—
It appears that shortly after six o'clock (the hour at
which the men usually quitted their work), 15 of them,
who were working on the side of the river opposite to
the city, entered a small boat, for the purpose of rowing
to the contrary side, and near to which a great portion
of the works are going on; no sooner had the unfortu-.
nate men entered the boat than (as was seen by some
persons from a distance) it was apparent it was too
heavily laden, and, as if by some fatality, or from an al-
most complete disregard of life which men in this walk
of life generally exhibit, no sooner had they quitted
the bank of the river, than, either not being aware, or
altogether regardless, of the danger to which they had
subjected themselves in having so much overladen the
boat, they gave way to their usual mirth and frolic, and
in an instant, and before they had reached the middle of,
the river, which is scarcely at this spot more than 15
yards wide, the boat capsized, and every man was, of
course, precipitated into the water. The occurrence
was seen by some of the labourers at the works, and
assistance procured as speedily as possible. Meantime
the poor fellows (only three or four of whom were
swimmers) struggled in the water, and strove in vain to
bear up against the rapidity of the current. The spec-
tacle of 15 human beings struggling in the water is de-
scribed by an eye-witness as one of the most heart-
rending description. By the time the boats had reached
the spot three-fourths of them had sunk to rise no more.
Three only of the party were saved, and these, when
taken from the water, were in the most exhausted state;
but, the propor means having been taken, they were,
after a time, restored. A few minutes after this another
of these ill •fated men was taken from, the water ; he was
conveyed to a public-house a short distance from the
spot, and, although every possible means were resorted
to, he died a short time afterwards.

By this time hundreds of the inhabitants had congre-
gated near the spot, numerous boats were launched, and
the river dragged, in order to recover the bodies of those
who had disappeared ; but the rain was telling rapidly,
the wind blowing strongly, and for upwards of an hour
their search was not attended with success. About nine
o'clock, however, four more of the bodies were disco-
vered, and shortly afterwards a fifth, but life was, of
course, extinct. The search was continued until long
after dark; but at midnight no more of the bodies had
been discovered.

During the time the search was going on the scene on
the banks of the river baffled description—a father was
raving almost frantically after his son, who had thus been
suddenly snatched from him ; and as there was consi-
derable uncertainty as to the names of the men who
were in the boat, wives and even children were threading
the assembled crowd in the most painful excitement in
search of husbands and of fathers.

DEPARTURE OF Tirt KING OF
SAXONY.

(From the Edinburgh Courant of Monday.)
His Majesty the King of Saxony has now taken his
departure from the British dominions. After a stay UR.
exampled in the modern movements of Monarchs, and
which, we trust, indicates the gratification he has de-
rived from his sojourn, he closed his tour of the island
yesterday (Sunday) with the Scottish metropolis.
On Saturday he embarked, about eleven o'clock, in
Lord Wilton's schooner yacht, for Aberdour, and for a
cruise in the Frith. Lord John Scdtt, in his yacht, the
Lufra, accompanied his Majesty in his progress. The
royal party returned about half-past three, and his Ma-
jesty drove up to town (Edinburgh), .and in the most
unostentatious manner proceeded to th 6 Royal Hotel,
where he took lunch. This was done with so little
parade, that it was almost by accident the inmates re-
cognised him.
His Majesty then drove out to Roslin, and on alight-
ing at the inn an interesting scene took place. Several
parties of ladies and gentlemen from Edinburgh and the
neighbourhood were at Roslin, enjoying the beauty of
the country ; and when the royal carriages arrived the
whole turned out, formed a circle round his Majesty,