The Sun.
London, England, 1868-05-15 00:00:00

TILE IRISH CHURCH BILL.

Colonel KNOX begged to ask the right hon. gentleman
the member fur South Lancashire after what hour he
would move for leave to introduce his Suspensory
Bill with respect to the temporalities of the Irish Church.
Mr. GLADSTONE had no difficulty in answering the
question. The motion for leave to introduce a till, he
believed, iu conformity with the ordinary usages of Par-
liament, could have been made by him when the chairman
reported the passing of the resolutions through com-
mittee, and leave was generally accorded. But he was
desirous of not taking such a step until the answer of her
Majesty to the address had been reed, and th +refore he
did not avail himself of that opportunity. Uuder such
circumstances ho had hoped that ho should not have
been opp sod as be was yesterday when ho moved for per-
mission to introduce the bill. As ho could command no
particular day for making his motion, he should
avail himself of the first opportunity that pre-
sented i self ; therefore ho could not now say at
what hour the motion would be wade. Ile might say that
he did not intend to allow the matter to drag on for any
inordinate length of time.
Colonel KNOX, amidst loud cries of " Order, order,"
said that the members on his side of the house intended t
give the motion their most serious opposition
BOUNDARY .BILL.

On the motion for going into committee on the Boundary
Bill,

Mr. GLA )STONE drew attention to the various pro-
visions of this bill, and the numberless difficulties that
would have to be enc.matered, more especially wish respect
to the primary question of boundary. He thought the par-
liamentary boundary ought to he the municipal boundary,
and ho very much dispaired of getting through with the
bill before the 10th of June, which it WAS- necessary to do
in order to render it available for tlle present year.

Mr. DISRAELI said he thought many of the difficul-
ties found out by the right hon. gentlemen were ground-
less, but ho dOubted not those difficulties if they were con-
sidered with patience and tempr could be sur-
mounted in a manner satisfactory to the house, and he
hoped of the country. He did not consider the bill
at all a party measure, as ha Antal c•insidor
every member sitting on his side of the house
perfectly free to express their opinions us far as justice
required. He did not anticipate any of the difficulties as
insurmountable, but, if it became necessary, they could
resort to morning sittings, and if the necessity should arise
that reference to a select committee Ehould be requisite or a
remission of the bill to the commissioners for reconsidera-
tion, he thought still they would bo enabled to get through
the bill in time to accomplish the purpose desired. (Bear,
hear.) No spirit of party would be evinced on his side
of the house, and the Government would do all in its
power to secure the consideration of the bill in a perfectly
open manner.

Ur. LLIBDEBT pai4-p.itter the statement of thg right

lion. g3ntlsman he should feel it his duty to persevere with
the motion which stood in his name.

Mr. BASS thought it would expedite business in the
long run if the bill was referred to a small select com-
mittee

Mr. BRIGHT said the whole of the difficulty arose in
consequence of Parliament not giving the power to the
Boundary Commissioners to contract ; all they were to do
was to increase, or, in other words,to drag 400,000 voters from
the county to the borough constituencies. (Hear, hear.)
That was exaetly what it was doing, although not so set
forth. He thought, if it was the desire of both parties, ir-
respective of party tactics, the difficulty in the Boundary
Bill might be got rid of in two or three days at the most.
Mr. RUSSELL GURNEY, as one of the Boundary
Commissioners, explainel that h 3 and his collaagues had
acted strictly upon the instructions wiiich they had re-
ceived from the house. Perli;anFmt was quite at liberty to
take other matters into consideration to which their at-
tention It id not been directed. Ile had consulted his
brother couttnisioners, and they agreed with him that• the
House of Gointnons was best calculated to arrive at a satis-

ctory couclniion. One courso ouly they would object

t 9, and that was that the matter siva,' b r,forrod back
to them. It would ho m' Ire smisfactvry, thy thought, to
refer it to air)ther tribunal, but they would limit the in-

Inste:of of going into case ref tho whole 81 l,o,roughs
the bourblarios of which it w:ts proposed to enlarge, the
investigation shotild 1./J ro,tricted t cases ou which 1)0,1-
tioni Itad Lew) presented to the, nous() or notices given by
inmihors.

Sir F. CROSSLEY, anotht,r commissioner, expressed
his concurrence in the views Stated by Mr. R. Gurney.
Mr. DISRAELI, having heatd the deciarttioas of the
two commissioners who had just spoken, and received an
assurance that a considerable majority of their colleagues
held the same -news, was ready to propose on the part of
the Government that a committee of five should be ap-
pointed by the Committee of Selection, such committee to
sit day by day, but to limit the investigation to the peti-
tions already received. Ile also proposed that they
should have power to center with the Boundary Com-
mi sioners, and that the evidence should be purely docu-
mentary.

After some discussion, in which Mr. OSBORNE passed
some severe remarks upon both the commissioners and
their report,

Lord .I.IOTHAAI appealed to the house not to throw
upon the Committee of Selection the '6'iorous and invi-
dious task of nominating the comthittee, which, in his opi-
nion, ought to ba appointed by the house itself.

Mr. HARD Y conceived that the matter stood in this
position—ih•it the majority of the house wore favourable
to the appointment of a committee, to whom should be
referred all cases as to which petitions had been presented
up to this time, whether they concerned old or new
boroughs, together with all mem mials which had been
presented to the House of Oom:uons, and all cases re-
specting which there had al►eady been notices placed on
the paper.

Mr. BRIGHT suggested that the select committee should
be formed of seven.

Eventually the house went into committee of supply, on
an understanding that a select committee should be ap •
pointed to inquire into the boundary report, the Govern-
ment undertaking to submit the names of such commtttee
on Monday next.

On the vote of £1,600,000 being introduced for the New
Courts of Justice, _

Alderman LAWRENCE called attention to the narrow
and insufficient approaches to the New Palace of Justice
about to ba erected in the Strand.

Several votes of money were agreed to, amongst which
was one of £3,000,000 for the expenses of the Abyssinian

Expedition.
Considerable discussion ensued upon vat ions vote;
which were eventually agreed to, and progress was re-
ported.

The house resumed its sitting at twelve o'clock, when
the Customs and Income Tax Bill and the Exchequer
Bonds (.£1,600,000) Bill were read a third tuna and
passed.
After some pro forma business had been gone through,
Mr. Gladstone was called upon to introduce his Sus-
pensory Bill.
Colonel KNOX objected to the bill being introduced at
that late hour of the evening, and in justification of his
opposition quoted a speech said to be delivered by Mr.
Gladstone at a former period in the House of Commons,
" in defence of the Irish Church against its recreant foe,
Earl Russell," in which he stated that any measures of this
kind, if passed in Parliament, would prove them a " recre-
ant senate and an apostate nation." He moved that the
bill be read that day six months.

Mr. NEWDEGATE, in seconding the motion, would
ask Mr. Gladstone whether anything contained in his bill
would be contrary to the Coronation Oath or Act of Uuion ;
and he further asked, after the principles of this bill were
introduced, when he would move fur the second reading ?

Mr. GLADSTONE asked for references to a quotation
which he believed never proceeded from his mouth or his
p.n. In answer to Mr. Newdegate, he said the principles
of his bill were explained iu the resolutions he recently
introduced. It was merely to restrain any new appoint-
ments in the Irish Church uat►l time had been given to
bring in a bill upon this sul'j•.ct which would deal with
the Church temporalities. . .

Mr. VANCE contended that the Irish Church as intro-
duc,d was a mere politkal evJnt, and that they would
never have heard of it had Mr. Gladstone been on the
Treasury bench, or even if Lord Derby had beau Prime
Minist,r ; but, in his tniGd, it was au attempt to crush the
pro -ent First Lord of the Treasury.
Lord INGESTRE moved that the bill cf Mr. Gladstone
be read by the clerk at the table, se that hon. members
might know what it contained.
This was overruled, when Mr. NEWDEGATE again
asked when the second reading would be introduced if the
first reading were agreed to. _ .

Mr. GLADSTONE replied that the bill was very short,
and he hoped to be able to distribute copies to members
this day (Friday), and on the following Friday he pro-
posed to take the second reading.
AfLer some slight opposition tha introduction of Mr.
Gladstone's bill was agreed to, and it was .ordered to be
read a first time.

PERSONAL EXPLANATION.
Mr. GLADSTONE then obtained per.nission to make a
personal explanation, and spoke as follows : —Aided by my
friends, I have discovered a passage which bears a re-
nuakable resemblance to that which the hon. and gallant
member (Colonel S. Knox) described as coming from me
in 1835. " The passage is this

"By all that we see and know of the history of the
country, this is—and I glory in the thought—a Protestant
Stat% What does that mean ? That while we respect
the antiquity and the authority of the Church, we also assert
the right of private judgment and vindicate the independ-
ence of the human mind. I trust that a Church whiclo re-
tains the principles of a Christian Church, which teaches
the Scriptures and the unadulterated truths of the Church
of England, will never be overthrown by a British
louse of Commons. (Loud Ministerial cheers.) It can-
not be destroyed except by the voo of a reel-ea:it senate—
(renewed cheers)—aud au apostate nation."
(Rear, hear.) But upon running up to the head of that
speech i find it was delivered on the 10th of April, 1886,
and that the author of it was Mr. Whiteside. (Loud and
continued cheering from the Opposition.)
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned.