The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-02 00:00:00

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL it was ordered
that the House at its rising should adjourn until Monday
next.

SESSIONAL ORDERS.
The sessional orders were then put seriatim from the
Chair, and agreed to with the exception of that resolu-
tion which prevented Members from moving an amend-
ment on the order of the day, which was postponed for
future consideration at the suggestion of Mr. Hume.
On the question that the postponed order be agreed to,
Mr. HUME observed, that although he originally
prepared the order, it was under the impteassion that it
would operate for the public good. It had,
however, had a different effect ; it had tended
rather to impede than to promote the progress
of measures or the convenience of Honourable Members,
and ho would therefore suggest, now that they had had
two years' experience of its inoperativeness, tkat they
should return to the old plan and amend this order ac-
cordingly.
Mr. E. DENISON did not agree with the Hon. M.
bar for Montrose that the order had proved, inoperative or
inconvenient; on the contrary, he thought the
experience of the two years had proved. it to
be a most meful rule. Could anything be more
ineor.venient or calculated more t obstruct the business
of the House than that it should be impossible for in-
lividual Members to know beforehand what the subject
of discussion was to be?—(Hear, hear.) Well, then, this
order altogether obviated that inconvenience, and he did
trust that the House would persevere in supporting this
order, which, there could be no doubt, had generally
worked well for the advantage of public business.
Mr. HENLEY thought the House was yet scarcely
in a fit state to discuss this question, coming as it did so
suddenly upon it.
Mr. HUMS said it was the object of his motion to
d. fir the discussion of it.
Lord J. 7:4ISSSELL thought this ru'e, as it at present
stood, productise of great incunvenienoe. It was
the forme r practice of the House, when there was an
order of the day to be considered, for the order of the
day to be read, and although the Speaker put it formally
from The chair, it was not supposed that it was advisable
to interpose any motion re!ating to any other subject;
but, an abuse of that kind had crept into the practice,
0/diens emanating from the Hon. Member for Mon-
trose-himself.—(Laughter). That practice was at last
found so inconvenient, that the Hon. Gentleman, who
was the author of the abuse, proposed the resolution
which was now the subject of discussion. He (Lord J.
Russell) submitted that the House had better continue
the present arrangement,—(Cheers.)
Mr. upatmEs was understood to express himself in
favour of the Hon. Member for Montrose's motion.
Sir R. H. INGLIS thought that though it was some-
what early for that House to take into consideration the
benefits or the disadvantages of a sessional order, he yet

deemed it advisable to entertain the motion as speedily
as possible, for it appeared very evident that the order
had worked satisfactorily for the dispatch of business
in former years. That was the real question which
the House was now called upon to dispose of, and he
believed that nine-tenths of the Members would agree
with him, that the more time was economised the better
would it be for them and the country.—(Loud cheer.)
He did, therefore, hope that this question would be dis-
posed of before another year was wasted.—(Hear.)
Mr. lIORSMAN said that the question was not
whether the motion of the Hun. Member for Montrose
(11r. Hume) should 1)9 disposed of, but whether it should
be adjourned for consideration. The fact was, that in-
stead of one motion or one resolution, the Hon. Member
had proposed a series of resolutions, and it was almost
impossible to say what effect the adoption of his motion
would have upon the others, which were not
named. The Howe wax, in fact, taken by surprise.
Tho Honourable Member for Montrose had dis-
tinctly stated that this resolution was only on
experiment, and he thought that the effect of that expe-
riment ought to be ascertained before they took any
step further.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRO rHERToN had always been anxious, as
the House well knew, to forward the public business.—
(Cries of " Divide, divide.")
Hr. HUME would only say a few words before the
House divided. His only object was to forward the dis-
patch of the public business of the country—(Hear,
hear) but session after session had passed
without any step iu advance being made.
He should be prepared to make a proposition, that when
any Member thought fit to move an amendment he
should be required to give previous notice of it, that the
House might know the business before it, and the time
which ought to be devoted to the interests of the r eople
should not be wasted.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The 110114 e then divided, when the numbers were—
For the adjournment .. 81
Against it ... ... 151
Majority ...---70

Mr. HUMEsaidhe was the individual who submitted
the proposition to the House for adoption, not as a per-
manent measure but as an experiment, in order to see in
what manner every possible facility for the complaints
of the people being la,id before the House could be
afforded, and in his conscience he believed it had had
that effect. If they went on as they did at present,
the time would come when the Ministers would
be the only parties who would be enabled
to speak. They had an opportunity of
making a House whenever they liked, and
when any unpleasant or disagreeable motion waiVfought
on, in nine cases out of ten they could either prevent the
House being formed, or clear the House, and then have
a " count out."

The resolution was then agreed to.
The remaining tesolutions were then agreed to.
ADJOURNED DEBATE ON THE ADDRESS.
On the order of the day being read for resuming the
adjourned debate on the Address,
The Marquis of GRANBY said, in the observati?Aa,
which he should feel it his duty to make on the moteA
and amendment before the House he should confine himj
self entirely to that paragraph in her Majesty's graciou
Speech to which the amendment was directed. He
thought it would be generally admitted by the House
that it would not be possible for his Hoc. Friend- this
Member for" Lir:toile, and those who entertained similar
view, to agree to that paragragh in the Speech ot' her
Majesty without moving an amendment to it.
That paragraph stated that her Majesty had
great satisfaction in congratulating the House
on the improved condition of commerce and manufac-
tures; and it went on to say that her Majesty regretted
that some distress prevailed among the owners and occu-
piers of land. Now, when it was remembered that these
complaints did not proceed solely from the occupiers
and owners of land,it did seem to him'that there was an in-
tention on the part of her Majesty's Government to insult
and annoy an important part of her Majesty's subjects. He
did think the mover of the Address would have assured the
House that that language was not intentional, and that
it was an oversight on the part of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, at least, though there might not be an intention
among them to extend any measure of relief to the
agricultural interest. Bat what did they hear from
the Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Villiers) when
he came to this feet? The Noble Lord then read
the passage, saying that the Honourable Member had
repeated with a sneer that passage of the Royal Speech.
He believed, however, that the distress of the owners and
occupiers of land would receive not only the sympathy of
the members of this House, but of the country at large,
not only for themselves but because every thinking
man must know that they could not be destroyed without
their labourers.—(Protectionist cheers) And the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had admitted that the
agricultural labourers participated in that distress. He
admitted also that the distress fell more heavily upon
the small tenant-fa,rmere, and he believed he was
correct—(Hear, hear, and cheers)—and allow him to
remind the House of the large number of tenant-farmers
According to Mr. Spackman's tables the number of
tenant-farmers of England, including those of Ireland,
was equal to every male above twenty years of age
employed in every species of manufacture in this
country.—(Protectionist cheers.) They were also a
class which had over proved loyal to the Sove-
reign (Loud cheers) and ever ready and
foremost to defend the constitution of the country.
It bat been said that the great distress which now ex-
isted was to be attributed mainly to an over-abundant
harvest ; :but could it be denied that the importation of
ten millions and a half of grain had forced down prices t)
the extent to which they had fallen? Last year the harvest
was not an over good one, and then they were told that
tl.e distress which unfortunately existed was the result
cf a deficient Larvest.—(flea:, hear.) Nuw he wished
to know under what circumstances the agricultural
interest was t be prosperous ?—(Hear.) Large
meetings had lately been held throughout the country,
in the north, south, east, and west, at •r, hich a,grieul-
wrists and farmers attended, and, though no
doubt there was a great variety of opinion,
it was the consequence of the different posi-
tions which they occupied in the country;
but at all these meetings there were present man who
said, that under the present system the cultivation of the
land must ever prove an unremunerative occupation.
—(Hear, hear.) They distinctly told them that no
reduction of rent, no partial remedial measures, how-
ever beneficial, could possibly save them from
the effect of the disadvantages which were now weigh-
ing them down. He, therefore, did ask them to
listen to the complaints of these men ; and he did
hope that those complaints would not all be made in
vair.—(Hear, hoer.) He had observed that a passage
in her Majesty's Speech stated that great advent ego had
accrued to the labouring classes through the re-
duction of the prices of food and clothing, and the
other necessaries of life. That passage he would
read. The Noble Marquis having read the
passage, proceeded to say that without attempt-
ing for a moment to question the value of such
a principle, a great, and very possibly a fatal
mistake, would be made in estimating the
labourer's condition if they did not take into consider-
ation the amount of wages which he received; and looking
at that condition he did not hesitate to say that the la-
bourer's condition Ras worse now than it had been before;
for those who are employed at reduced wages aro
worse off than ever they were. But that is not all;
it is not only those who are thus employed
who are worse off, but it is those who are unem-
ployed. Whoa I heard the Right Honourable
Gentleman last night reading extracts from
the report of the poor-law guardians, I could
not but remember that at a meeting at Walt.
ham, which I attended the other day, I heard far-
mers get up one after another and say they had done
all they could to keep their labourers in employ, but they
could do, it no longer, and even if they could employ
them they had no money to pay them with. What was
the use Of comparing the last year with 1848? that had
been a season of distress in the manufacturing as well as
in the agricultural districts. They should have com-
pared it with 1845, and again, accurately to
calculate the amount of distress, they should take into
account those who were employed upon the roads in the
country, for he perceived that it was a growing practice
among farmers to send their labourers on the roads
instead of sending them to the workhouse. The Noble
Marquis then proceeded to read an extract from the
letters which have lately appeared in the Morning
Chronicle, in which it was stated that it was no uncom-
mon practice for vagrants to commit petty thefts
in order to get a week's safe lodging.—(Hear.)
They were willing to work hard. but work could not be
had,, and food, covering and firing could not
be obtained without labour. It was an un-
healthy state of things that could not exist.
He (the Marquis of Granby) agreed with every word
of that statement, and asserted that the great de-
sideratum cf the age was to employ the people.—
' (Hear, hear.) If they turned to Ireland, the same
state of things would be found to exist. The number of
deaths that had taken place in that county from star-
vation was frightful in the extreme, but it was
the effect of bad legislation, and nothing else
Ile admittel the prosperity of manufacture', and he was
sure every Member of the House would rejoice at it; but
it was necessary t look into the origin and springs of
that prosperity. He doubted much whether it would
be of a permanent character. Foreign trado
had largely increased, but the home trade was in a state
of complete stagnation . It should be remembered that
before this prosperity they had had a long depres-
sion and continued convulsions on the Continent, and
to the removal of these causes and the
prosperity.
•
of California he attributed our existing
anu.
The Noble Marquis real a letter from a large m
facturer in Sheffield, stating that at present many trades-
men in that town were unable to meet their bills from the
existing del)) ession in their trade. He thought then there
was no such great prosperity in the home trade of
this country as had been been represented; and he
feared that the agricultural interest in this
country, on which that home trade mainly depended,
would, under the existing laws, go on from time to time
declining, until both the manufacturing and agricultural
interests were eventually ruined the home markee
was the great mart upon which they should depend. In
a series of years, from 1820 to 1819, it appeared that the
value of cotton consumed in the home market was
257,531,9591., and in the home and colonial 442,330,3255
They spoke much of the prosperous state of various
branches of manufactures, and referred to articles such
as gloves, but these had a protective duty of ten per
cent, in their favour. He had shown the value of the
home market; he would now draw attention to the
foreign trade. Now, it appeared that the value of the
entire exports to the continent of Europe was but
22,845,6241., and to the United States 10,974,151/,
making a total of 33,819,7741. Suppose the United
States should impose a restrictive duty either on the;
manufactured article or on the raw material, or sup-
pose they should refuse to supply it at all, what then

would become of their foreign exports? These were
most important questions, not only to the agricultural
body, but to every man in the country. He bad said
there was great pressure upon the agricultural interest,
and that it was owing to legislation. That it was not
temporary, but permanent, and would reach other classes.
They said if free trade is to be the order of the day let it
be carried out fairly, and let the manufacturers be
placed on the same footing as themselves. They com-
plain that they are not allowed to grow tobacco, beet-
root for sugar, and barley for malt liquors. He should,
for all these reasons, give a hearty vote for the amend•
men t.

Mr. E. DENISON said he had been long connected
with laud, and depended upon it for support. The
question was not whether the corn-laws w ere to be re-
pealed, but whether certain words were to be added to
the Address. Now, he would ask what use there would
be in introducing these words, unless it was meant that
they w, re to be followed up by practical results? Such
must be the intention of those who proposed and sup-
ported their introduction. The meaning then was, that
they should return to the policy which they had lately
abandoned. A petition had been present :d that evening
from Lincolnshire. At the meeting at hich the petition
was agreed to they were invited to consider not only the
agricultural, but all other interests. The colleague of
the Hon. Member who presented that petition had con-
gratulet d the House upon the prosperity of the commer-
cial and manufacturing interests. There could, in fact,
be no doubt thet the general interests of the country
were in a prosperous condition. It bad been further
proved that the repeal of the navigef on-laws did not
cause the ruin that was anticipated. There could bo no
doubt that the relation between landlord and tenant was
one of pressure. To adjust this matter how did they
employ themselves? Ile lived on the confines of the
counties of Lincoln and Gloucester, and must have been
deaf if he ha I not known or heard how they employed
themselves. They held meetings, where they discussed
the pressure on agriculture with political acerbity, and
sometimes with personal invectives. He lived near the
Noble Marquis (the Marquis of Granby), for whom he
entertained the highest respect. His personal character
was worthy of respect, but ho thought he was not judi-
cious in the course he pursued when he addressed the
tenant-farmers. He told them they could not pay rent,
and should not hold their farms. At these meetings
they were fond c f the simile with regard to landlords
and tenants—" that they sailed in the same boat;" but,
notwithstanding, they could not row the boat—they
would not even take an oar themselves or suffer the crew
to do so. They considered the current too strong for
' them. It was a cataract which it was impossible to
row over. They declared it was no use to struggle
against the stream, for ruin was certain.—(Laughter.)
The Noble Lord and others said that the only safety,
and security was the return of protection. The Noble
Lord should return to his constituents and say the battle
of protection had been fought and lost. What,:then, was to
be done? Himself (Mr. Denison) and others were suffer-
ing—for he spoke as an owner c f land, and of rather bad
land, and that certainly would suffer most—and he would
make another confession, that he had a farm witnout an
occupant, and he was told by a tenant-farmer, who came
to look at it, that he could not think of taking it until
something was settled.—(Cheers from the Ministerial
•nclies.) He hoped to be excused by the Noble Lord
Or having brought these matters under his attention.
Now, one part of his speech had reference to local bur-
dens. The Noble Lord should know that in their
capacity .as magistrates many of these local burdens
were under their control. To them;as magistrates,were
committed the administration of local affairs. By attend-
ing to those matters they would perform a most impor-
tant duty. Some years ago, when he first interested
himself in local affairs, he found that out of 157
items of taxation in his own country, ninety-seven
were founded upon no known law, and were of an ille-
gal nature. It was their boundee duty, without delay,
to make arrangements to meet the state of things
created by the recent alteration of the law. It was
their improving wealth and growing commerce that they
must look to, as a compensation for their loss.—(Loud
cheers.) For himself he could sincerely say, that
he would give his vote against the amendment with
confidence, upon the ground of right, justice, and ne-
cessity.—(Cheer'.)
Lord NORREYS thought that the amendment, if
carried, would give an indirect encouragement to that
agitation which was now going on to the injury of the
country. He saw no other prospect for the relief of
agriculture than in a wise and judicious diminution of
taxation pressing most heavily upon their interest.
Captain PELHAM said that the amendment which
had been proposed placed him in some little difficulty as
to the vote he should give, for the first time in that
House, as he came from an agricultural county, but pro-
fessed free-trade principles. He was not disposed that
the Gentlemen on the opposite aid e of the House (Pro-
tectionists) should arrogate to themselves the peculiar
title of the farmers' friends. If ho supposed that any
measure of the Government would be incurious to that
interest, he should give his vote against it. Those who
sat on the oppisite side of the House went about the
country persuading the people that it was possible to
return to protection, which had been abandoned by the
general consent of the country. The corn-law repeal
was not carried by stealth. Since they were repealed
there had been a general election, and that
alteration in the law had been deliberately ra-
tified by the country. He believed that in th©
legislation of that House, from 1815 to 1845, for agri-
cultural protection, the prosperity of the country was
not to to looked for, but it was to be found in the legis-
lation since the latter year for the general interest. He
concurred in a good deal that had fallen from Hon.
Members on the other side of the House; but he thought
at the same time that they had aggravated their difficul-
ties. There was one measure, an alteration c f the law
of settlement, that would be of great benefit to the agri-
culturist. The time had arrived for a tot it abolition of
the law of settlement. That he was prepared to show at
the proper time. He believed, in a minor degree, that
measures to facilitate the transfer of property similar to
that in operation in Ireland would be needed. Although
prepared to vet: for the iht :rest of agriculture, he was
toot prepared to uphold that interest without any rela-
tion to the general welfare. It was upon that ground
that he had been favourable to a repeal of the corn-laws,
and he would be no party to any amendment that would
have the effect indirectly of sanctioning measures for a
return to protection.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER observed that it was a most
grievous mistake to suppose that this question could be
brought to a final settlement by the vote cf that night.
—(Hear, from the Protectionists.) It was supposed
from the Speech that her Majesty's Ministers sym-
pathised with the distress of the agriculturists. But so
far from sympathising with the distress existing, they
did not even acknowledge it. They coolly ref rred to
their complaints, and that was all.—(Hear from the Op-
position.) The pauperism of the county of Lincoln had
increased during the past year to a frightful extent.
Oh, they were told, if you will only embark capital in
land (but where the capital was to come from they did
not say) it would yield a remunerative return. But
it was those districts which had been most improved
by their skill and industry that would suffer most.
He should also say that, with respect to
rents, the same system should be introduced
as that carried on in the mercantile concerns of
this country—that is, to buy in the cheapest market and
sell in the dearest one.—(Hear, hear.) He did not wish
to take on himself the character of a prophet, but at the
same time he should say that the parishes of England
would soon be reduced to a worse state than the parish
of ICilrush, in Ireland, and therefore hoped that the
House would duly weigh the great benefit likely to arise
from the amendment, which he felt it to be his honest
and honourable duty t. support, because the foreigner
was, by free-trade measures, afforded advantages which
have been denied to the English farmer. He next re-
gretted to state that the advocates of free trade did not
carry out their principles as they would wish to be
thought to do; for when ho turned his attention to the
growth of tobacco, he should ask, why not extend free
trade to this in a country that is well known to be ca-
pable of producing it, if free trade were properly car-
ried out?—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MeCULLAGII said that he would wish that the
Protectionists would extend the same care and concern
to the Irish farmer as they had evinced for the English
farmer, and therefore begged to call the attention of the
House to the misery and wretchedness prevalent in Gal-
way and several other counties in Ireland. He did not
think that the amendment proposed would gratify any
sect in Ireland, no matter whether Protestant, Catholio,
or Presbyterian, and hoped that it would not be pressed,
as it could confer no benefit on any class or sect of her
Majesty's subjects.

Mr. IL PALMER said that the condition of Ireland
was not at all improved by the corn-laws of 184 G. There
was no one who could not agree in the reference to, and
regret for, the language in her Majesty's Speech in re-
ference to the distress; but he thought the paragraph
ought not to be allowed to pass with simple notice,
with regard to the extent of that distress. The para•
graph went on to say, after alluding to the distress,
that allowance must be made fir recent legislative
1 changes. Now that was precisely the branch of the pa-
ragraph in which he, and those who agreed with him,
concurred; for there could be no doubt that much of
the distress which now pressed upon many parts
of England, and in an especial manner on Ire-
land, was not only produced but greatly aggravated by
the measure called " free trade." He believed it was
indisputable that to that measure the agricultural dis-
tress was to be attributed.—(Hear, hear.) It had been
said, but very erroneously, that this was a landlords'
question; but such was not the case, it was more of a
tenant-farmers' question, and it was a fact that, so op-
pressed were those tenants by the operation cf the
change, that they were actually at that moment paying
their rent out of their capital. There was not a doubt,
and he was prepared to prove it, that the distress was
produced by the Act cf IS46—the repeal of the corn-
laws. Ho could show, from the Mark-lane Express,
that there had been imported into this country, very re-
chyd
fiaeenonnrwddytl_
dt)n.-hnt,edaoa2ttrUthlil,63s quarters of grain, which amounted to
ype
o- oot
operated
er t
tuohhpneoomtfnh their:tht bae nut
tea
tenant-:armors?
classtt rri
tet
with
rt
hperesr:ruel
great consumption.
Tatrh te.aey
and
wedr Now,utiyal
nearly
aoton oi 11
ithity enteTaaridi
tdoeda
experience.teesetever
el earls-i; s who lie could
ere
ed
free-traders,
speakree-t
ra
dfreorms
and strenuous advocates fur the adoption of the measure,
that they had tried the experiment, and found it sadly
deficient of t'Je advantages promised to result from it by
those who advocated it when the question was Le:ng agi-
tated. With regard to cheap bread, about which so
much had been said, he thought it was quite idle to say
that it was sufficient to put the labourer in a state of
comfort and of elevated condition. Ile was enabled to
speak to the contrary, and to show that cheap bread—
the result of the change which had taken place—had the
effect, not of making the condition of the labourer better,
but, by its operation, of reducing the scale of wages, and
rendering their condition much worse. It threw men out
of employment, created competition, and much conse-
quent. distress, The Chancellor of the Exchequer,

his speech of last evening, gave a very flattering account '
of the state of things in the country now to that
which prevailed prior to the repeal of the corn-
laws; but concurrently with the state of prosperity to
which the Right lion. Baronet referred, and of which
he so much boasted, there was a great deal cf distress.
The Right Hon. Baronet, to illustrate that statement,
referred to the amount of relief given to the poor in 1848,
and that given in 1819, and argued that the diminutien
exhibited in the last over the preceding yi:er showed
that the measure of free trade was producing the eWects
which its advocates anicipated from it, in reducing the
poor-rates. But although the poor-law returns were, to
a certain extent, a criterion to go by, still, in his (Mr.
Palmer's) opinion, they were by no means to leo relied
on as correct, for it was an indisputahle !act, that much
cf the amount of distress which prevailed iu the country
was hidden from the guardians, under whose notice it
never came at all. He could show to the satisfaction of
the House that the special burdens of which so much
had been said by some Hon. Gentlemen, and which
was denied by others, pressed not merely on the
agricultural classes, but bore, also, on the poorer branches
of the manufacturing claisee. A great experiment had
certainly been tried in the commercial p Slicy of this
country, and he was prepared to admit that it had, to a
certain extant, and on one side, proved a la: tactic' :I one,
but on the other side of the picture—the landed interest
side—there was a dark shade, which exhibited not only
a burtheusame but a most discouraging complexion.
They should restore protk cive duties—the question of
ai:ount he left to the consideration of another day—or
they must considerably lessen the burthens on lend. It
was useless to press those views on the present Govera.-
ment, or the present Parliament; but Governments
were not permanent bodies, nor were Paeliamente per •
petual, and for this reason he thought the agricultural
interea was bound to persevere in their demand for re •
dress—(Hoar, hear)—a demand which he hoped would
eventually prove successful.— (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MUNTZ could not understand the use of a de-
bate, the subject of which appeared admitted on all
hands. He regretted that distress prevailed among cer-
tain classes of the community, but that was no reason
why Government should retrace its steps; and, even if
it were willing, it could not do so. Indeed, he defied
them to do so. If there were any retracing of steps it
should be on another principle, and in another quarter.
He had heard it stated that agricultural produce had
advanced in price, but he was not informed of the cause
cf that advance. He was of opinion that the price would
be still lower, and that was the reason why in 1846 he
had voted for the repeal of the corn-hews. At that
period he stated that if he did not consider such a
result would follow he should not vote for the mea-
sure. Low prices followed free-trade policy, and
for that reason some interests necessarily suf-
fered. He admitted that there was, under the existing
laws, a certain extent of prosperity, but then it was a
one-sided prosperity. Had that prosperity arisen from
an advance of wages ? No such thing. The increased
demand for manufactures had not produced one iota of
an advance in prices.—(Hear, hear.) The condition of
the working classes was improved, but the condition of
the masters had not been permanently benefited.—
(Hear, hear.) He wishei to ask, moreover, bad not this
improvement brought about by the ruin of the West
India interest, by destroying the condition of Ireland?
And were they not now, as it was alleged, going to de-
stroy the agricultural interest of England ?—(Hear.)
The lion. Member for the West Riding in the course of
last session prophesied that the price of wheat would
average 465. Some few days ago at Leeds he told the
farmers that it would not exceed 405., and he told them
they should be satisfied with that sum. How
did the Honourable Member aecount for the wide
difference in those statements? Suppose they had pro-
taction again, how could any man exist who manufac-
tured for the export trade? but they could not restore
protection unless it were throng's a sea of blood, thst all
would doaply regret. The question, as had been urged,
was a landlord question at the end, but it was a tenant
question in the beginning. High prices for corn must
decrease the rate of wages and the prices of manufac-
tures. With regard to the navigation-laws, as they
affected the price of food, there was this much to be said.
The repeal of those laws made this difference, that
whereas firmerly the foreign grower ha I not ac oppor-
tunity more frequently than once in seven years e f
sending his produce to this country, he coult
now calculate exactly upon reaching our market,
and he could, without difficulty, ascertain the precise
sum per quarter at which ho could land his corn here.
The Hon. Gentleman who moved the Address dwelt a
great deal on the importance of the national saving
which had been effected ; but who had paid for that
saving? If ninety or one hundred millions were taken
out of the pocket of one interest and put into the pocket
of another interest, in what respect was the nation ad-
vantaged? It was useless for the Protectionist to expect
a continuance of their long-cherished boon, and let them
remember that while they were protected they never
expressed the least solicitude for any other interest. In
conclusion, the Hon. Gentleman declared his determi-
nation of supporting her Majesty's Ministers, by his vote
on the Address they had prepared far adoption by the
Legislature.

Mr. HERRIES declared that those who co-operated
with him would have been unworthy the high position
they filled, if they had not taken the first opportunity
cf placing on record tbeir opinion of the prevailing
agricultural distress, and of the causes which immedi-
ately produced that distress. To the amendment he
gave his cordial assent, and he then proceeded to take
exceptions to some portions of the Address, especially
to that paragraph which ascribed great beneficial results
to have already proceeded from the repeal of the navi-
gation-laws. He also considered that the inferences
drawn by the Chancellor c f the Exchequer as to the state
of the country were not juttitied by the facts of the
case. The Right Hon. Gentleman had told the house,
that their exports during the year 1849 had exceeded
to a very large extent the expoiti ;luring the year
1848 ; but that WAS no evidence that the trade of
the country had be en benefited in the least de
gree by this free-trade system. Why, 1848 was, it
was well known, a miserably bad year.—(H, a-, hear.)
There was great depression in trade—there were di,-
turbances abrea 1 and discontent at home; arid with
what justice or propriety, then, could a comparison be
ma le between it and the last year to prove the benefit
free trade had conferred? But, more than the, in order
fully t ) establish, his case, it was nece3sary that the
Right lion. Gentleman should have told the House what
was tho nature of those exports, and where they were
sent to. A considerable portion of their exports went
t) China and the East Indies; but as it was well known
that the only article they imported from China was tea,
and that they loaded that with a duty of 100 per cent.;
it could not be said that tee trade had any effect in in-
creasing their exports with that country. But still far-
ther, and in order to show that the exports of 1849 being
larger than those of 1848 proved nothing, he would
remind the House that during the year 1845, when pro-
tection was in full operation, the exports exceeded those
of 1849 to a considerable ext sr, hear.) He
did not make those statements as a proof of the failure
of free trade, but simply to show the slender foundation
upon which the Right Honourable Gentleman raised
that superstructure of prosperity which ho had exhibited
to the House the other evening. In regard to the sub-
ject more immediatoly connected with the amendment
before the House, it had been admitted on all hands
that great distress prevailed among those connected
with agriculture. Government admitted that there was
such, although not in a satisfactory manner. Those
who had addressed the House on the subject also made
the admission, and the Honourable Mover of the Ad-
dress not only made the admission, but told them what
was the cause of the distress, namely, the lowness cf
the price of agricultural produce, caused by
the repeal of the core-laws. But that was
contrary to what the Free-traders said pre-
vious t) the repeal of the corn-laws, for they then
declared that the repeal of these would increase the
prosperity cf the occupiers of land, and raise its
value instead of lowering. it. Was it right that they
should place the agricultural interest of the country,
which was the most important interest connected with
it, in jeopardy, in order to try such an experiment as
that they had had recourse to ? He apprehended not,
and he did not despair of seeing the day when that
amount of protection which that interest conceived they
were entitled to would bo fully conceded to it.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said, conceiving that 'there
was but one opinion as to the desireableness of the debate
being concluded that night, and being aware that other
Gentlemen occupying a higher station than himself,
would be expected to address the House, he would con-
fine his remarks within a very short compass. At the
same time, there were one or two observations made by
the Right Hon. Gentleman who- had just eat down
which he could not help referring to in the outset. That
Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that so f sr as the
navigation-laws were concerned they bad no
right to say that the apprehensions entertained
by those who opposed the repeal of those laws,
as to the evils which would result from the
passing of that measure, would not be realised. Now.
he agreed that it would bo wrong either in himself or
any one else to boast of success so far as the effect of
repeal of those laws were as yet visible. Yet, on the
other hand, when challenged to the contest, he conceived
that he had a right to appeal to Hon. Gentlemen con-
nected with the principal shipping ports of the kingdom
to say whether the effects predicted by Hon. Gentlemen
opposite had been producel by that change.—(Hear,
hear.) So far from that being the case, he never made
an assertion in that House with greater confidence than
when he said that he believed that the shipping interest
of this country was in a most satisfactory and en-
couraging state.—(Hsar, hear.) He believed the-fact to
be, that there were at least as many ships building at
this moment in this country as there had been for:many
years past.—(Bear, hear.) Those ships so building
were of a larger class and a better description than
those hitherto built, and in fact the result had shown
that the predictions made on the passing of the mea-
sure, that shipping and ship-building would be greatly
increased by it, hal been fully re tlised.—(llear, hear.)
There was more energy displayed and a firmer de-
termination exhibited to meet that competition
which was deemed inevitable from the passing of such a
measure. Those Hon. Gentlemen who had taken a part
in the discussion of the question when it was before the
House would recollect the; numerous letters which ap-
peared from time to time in the Standard newspaper,
signed by a gentleman of the name of Linds?-y, con-
demnatory of the measure, and predicting its evil conse-
quences. That gentleman had since the passing of .the
Act issued a circular, in which he recommended the
shipowners, as the ease now stood, to accommodate
themselves to the altered state of things,
by having their
vessels commanded not only by gentlemen of great
nautical skill, but also of expert business habits; and
who were well acquainted with the customs and pecu-
liarities of the inhabitants of the various countries with
which they might trade, in order that they might
enable them:to compete with the ships of other countries.
That was exactly what he:anticipated would be the effect
of the repeal of those laws—that it would cause ship-

owners to exhibit more energy in the pro.eeution of
their business, and eint,loy on board their vessels
gentlemen of the most undoubted skill and business
habits. A gentlemen of great experience in the ship-
ping trade in Norway stated his conviction that every
Norwegian ship destined for the long voyage must come
to this country, in the first instance, to be coppered, so
completely had British shipbuilders gained the ascen-
dancy in that great branch of their commerce. Another
point had been raised in the course of the discussion on
this subject, and that was the t a.certain degree of favour,
in the shape of protection, had been shown to the manu-
facturing interests in thwe vestiges of protection which
still remained on the statute-hook. Now, there could not
be a gee ater error than such an assumption. It was quite
true that some vestiges of protection to their mantifx-
tures still remained unrepealed, but if any gentleman
took the trouble of looking through the tariff, he would
find that as far as favour was concerned, there was
no ground whatever fir saying that manufactures were
preferred • to the agricultural interests. The chief
article which still remained protected in manufactures
was silk, which had a duty on foreign imports of
15 per cent., and from which a revenue accrued of
274,0001. Glove;, artificial flowers, embroidery, boots
and shoes, and other articles, were also protected; but
the House would allow him to observe that all the great
*staple m uffecture; of the country were completely un-
protected—(Cheers)—with the single exception of silk,
and that the protection which still remained applied ex-
clusively to the industry of those artisans who took
manufactured goods in a secondary state, and above all
to that class of females for whom so much deserved sym-
pathy had been lately exhibited. The duty on goods in
which they were concerned was as high as 25 per cant.,
the very highest on the statute-book, and which yielded
a revenue of 12,8001. But, thou, let them see how the
agricultural classes were situated in the same way, and
then judge if any favour was shown ono class above an-
other. Butter was protected by a duty of 10 per cent.,
which yielded a sevenue of 140,0001.; cheese 5 per
cent., yielding 160,000/ ; tallow the same, yielding
95,0001.; cloves, agricultural seeds, 38,0001.; and eggs,
which he apprehended were not manufactured articles—
(Great laughter)—brought in a revenue of 32,0001.
(tlear, hear.) Now he made out a list of manufactured
articles, from which, in the shape of protective duties, a
revenue was derived of 430,0001., while the duties on
foreign agricultural products imported into this country
were nearly the same, as they amounted to 427,000/.—
(Hear, hear.) Ile (Mr. Lebouchere) thought it right to
go into that statement, in consequence of what had been
alleged at various meetings in the country, that if they
were to have free trade at all, they ought to have it
equally applied to all branches of rational industry. It
was incorrect to say that agriculture was left out of the
question, and as to what had been alleged about the
grievance of not permitting foreign tobacco to come in
duty free, it was well known that any attempt to grow
tobacco in this country would be fruitless if such was
done, and it was therefore obvious that the protection
now on tobacco was no impediment whatever to
British agricultural industry. He denied in the most
emphatic terms that the slightest disrespect was intended
to be cast es the landed interest by the words in the
Speech from the Throne.—(Hear, hear.) He knew from
his own personal knowledge that distress existed, and ho
deeply deplored it; but it was his conscientious convic-
tion that they could not do anything more injurious to
those interests than to hold out any expectation that that
or any future House of Commons will again return to
the system of protection, and thus divert their attention
from their efforts to improve their condition by such an
ignis fatuus. He was therefore opposed to the amend-
ment, not because distress did not exist in the agricul-
tural districts, but because he believed such distress was
only of a temporary character; for to him it apreared
inconceivable that when their manufactures and com-
merce flourished the fields of that great country could
be left uncultivated.—(Cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI then rose, amidst great applause from
the Protectionists—Sir, I rise to support the amendment
to the Address, which has been moved by the Honour-
able Baronet the Member for Lincolnshire. I am sure
that the Noble Lord opposite will not think it disre-
spectful on my part if I do not enter into any comment
upon any other portion of the Address which he has
offered to the consideration of the House, which Address
contains notioes of subjects of great interest and impor-
tance, upon many of which I myself might venture,
under other circumstances, to require some information
from her Majesty's Ministers, But, considering the
hour of the night, the general tone of the debate, and the
anxiety which I believe is felt on both sides cf the House
that the question should be closed to-night, the Noble
Lord will permit me to confine myself to that particular
paragraph upon which my Honourable Friend has moved
the amendment. I believe there is no question in this
House at present, whatever there might have been at
the commencement of yesterday's discussion, that what is
called agricultural distress does prevail. We have had,
after some sceptical expressions, several witnesses from
both sides of the House, of considerable influence and
importance, who have attested that fact, the last of
whom was the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of
the Board of Trade.—(Hear, hear.) And I think I may
state without exaggeration that agricultural distress does
prevail in England, in Scotland agricultural dismay at
least, and I suppose I must leave for Ireland agricultural
desulatior.—(Cheers from the Protectionists.) Un-
questionably, whatever might have been supposed to
have been the cause of this distress, whatever differences
of opinion might have existed with respect to the de-
gree of this distress—unquestionably it has prevailed for
a considerable period, has evinced itself in a variety of
quarters, and has been expressed by persons whose opi-
nions certainly, from their position and importance, are
entitled to the highest respect. But, Sir, I am entirely
precluded from the necessity of entering into any evi-
dence upon this important and interesting point, because
the evidence is already Wore me. I want no better evi-
dence with 'meet to the existence of this distress, and
with respect to the cause of this distress, than that of the
Hon. Gentleman who moved the Address to her Majesty.
—(Hear, hear.) That Hon. Member has with perfect
frankness informed us, that he has no doubt that a sum
equal almost to one-eighth of the national debt has been
taken from the agricultural class, and within a very
biicf period, by the influence of legislative enactments.
—(Cheers.) I am not speaking now with respect to the
wisdom or fully of those enactments, or with respect to
the necessity or expediency of them, I am merely calling
a witness forward who, upon such a topic, must surely
be considered one of a first-rate character—(A laugh)—
who comes forward and tells us that one, and that the
most important, branch of national industry has, accord-
ing to his own account, within a very brit f period, been
deprived of the receipt of between 90,000,000, and
100,000,000 sterling, which, according to the Hon.
Member, it was in the habit of receiving, and that that
want of receipt has been occasioned by recent, and cer-
tainly unexpected, changes in our laws.—(Cheers.)
Therefore, it is evident at present, and I think it will
be acknowledged by all, that it is not surprising that
this distress should be severe—should be so severe and
so general as that it should be prevalent in England,
acknowledged in Scotland, and that it should be over-
whelming in Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) For cer-
tainly, great as must be the cause which produces,
if not universal, at least general distress in three such
famous kingdoms, in this financial age, it surely will be
acknowledged that the cause is sufficient when we
hear and accept the calculations of the Hon. Member
who moved the Address t her Majesty.—(Cheers.) Let
me, under these circumstances—the House recollecting
how wide and prevalent is this distress, how—according
to the lion. Gentleman who moved the Address which
he calls upon us to support—how great is the cause of
the distress, and how ascribable is that distress to the
previous conduct of this House—allow me once more to
recall te the House the language in which that distress
is noticed in the Speech from the Throne. Unhappily,
it is not there described even as distress—(Hear, hear)
—but the expression of feeling on the part of the. great
classes who have been submitted to the action of cacum.
stances so vast as those acknowledged by h
Gen-
tleman the Member for Wolverhampton the
(Mr. Villiers)
oVnilliers)
are merely noticed as complaints—(fiea
justice of which is most studiously notkr'nowledged.—
(Ilea?, hear.) It had indeed been acknowledged.—
in defence—
mind you, after this critical observation had been made
—that in a subsequent sentence these words appear—
" that her Majesty greatly laments_
stthreasts.r That is any portion of
her subjects should be suffering di
abstract obsertation—(Cheers)—one which bears no re-
ference to the condition of either kingkingdom,but merely
says that, as an abstract principle, the Sovereign of these
realms sympathises with any class of he r
as subjectstract s who
in i an ab
are in a state of distress.g
APP
l y
proposition is virtually
o denying that it practically
exists—(Cheers)—and is followed by a sentence which
is one of philanthropic mockery.—(Cheers.) Well,
now, is it surprising,
is it unreasonabales,
passedthat i n
and the
after pre-
sent state of affairs—atter thatll h
all that is passing—that this House should meet again,
and that it should virtually not acknowledge
ence of this great distress, whichis not only recognised
by the reputative of the Government—which is even
accounted for by him—that we should not loess in silence
this occasion, especially when we come fresh from our
constituents, who are the victims of this change of your
legislation, which, whether it be right or wrong, YOU
agree by your prime organ has produced these effects?
Is it, I say, surprising that we should feel it our first
duty to come forward here to express our opinion of the
causes of that distress, and our sympathy with those
who are suffering?—(Cheers.) Let me beg the House
carefully to consider this amendment, because it is upon
it alone that the question is about to be called, and not
upon some imaginary statement of a case which it may
be convenient to the Government to adopt, and espe-
cially to any Hon. Member cf that Government who
may have prepared a speech not adapted to this amend-
ment.—(A laugh.) The amendment which you are now
called upon to decide consists of two parts. Let me
new call your particular attention to the first of
them. You are asked humbly " to represent to her
Majesty that in mony parts of the United Kingdom, and
especially ,in Ireland, various classes of her Majesty's
subjects connected with the cultivation of the soil are
labouring under severe distress, mainly a' tribut del° in
our opinion, to recent legislative enactments." Who
denies that proposition ?—(Cheers.) Not the Hon.
Moser of the Address to her Majesty.—(Cheers.) He
admits the fact, and he accounts for it; and this amend-
ment is merely prospective of the speech which he made
last night.—(Cheers.) Is it unreasonable, then—or, if
unreasonable, no one can maintain that it is untrue?—
(Cheers.) It has been said that you are called upon by
the amendment to-night to declare that you must in-
stantly return to protection, and that the protective sys-
tem must be instantly re-constructed in this country. It
may or it may not be politic—it may or it may not be
expedient—to call upon the House to take that
step ; but rely upon it, if we think it our duty to
do it—if we think it is for the advantage of the
( country that that step should be taken, we will not

hesitate to come forward, frankly, and completely,
and tengibly, to express ourselves upon that subject.—
(Cheers.) Ido not think that an amendment to the
Address is the right occasion for contesting so great !
a principle, or for entering upon such en encounter; but
remembering what the etete of the country is—believing
that it is universally acknowledged that, whether right
or wrong, the distress of great portions of her Majesty's
subjects has been occasioned by recent legislative enact-
meats--I say that nothing can be more legitimate, no-
thing can be, upon our part or opus the part of those
who sympathise with the land in its di:tress, an act of
more clear or complete duty than to come forward, when
such an Address to the Throne is proposed to es, and
express, with temperance, but with firmness and with
precision, our belief in the existence of a great cal mi!y,
and our conviction that that calamity has been occasioned
by our legislative enactments. (Cheers.) But; is
there anything unreasonable in it? What caa be me; e
natural than that the House of Parliament which repre-
sents the Commons t f England—whatever may be the
truth or falsehood, whatever may be the justice or injus-
tice, of certain economical principiei—What, I say, can
be more natural than that when we meet togetier, and
when it is flagrant and notorious that great bodies of
the people are in a etato of great depression and embar-
rassment, that we should come fsrward and exprese that
fact dutifully and respectfully to the Sovereign. And
what can be more natural than that ese should &lege
our belief in the causes—net an unwarranted belief, not
a wild or extravagant belief—for we have bees antici-
pated in the course which we have pointed out by the
very organ of the Government who has proposed the Ad-
dress?—(Cheers.) So fir from this be:ng a violent
course upon our part; it was a most constitutional, most
natural, and most probable one, for it was the general
anticipation of the country that her Majesty's Ministers
would have expressed some sympathy with the depres-
sion and distress of the great body of her Majesty's sub-
jects. They might have done that without giving up any
of those economical convictions to which they have been
such recent converts.—(Cheers.) Isdeed, it was for a
considerable time a very prevalent opinion that her Ma-
jesty's Ministers were really not ashamed of feeling seine
sympathy with the distress of this great body of the
country. There were a variety of rumours abroad, to
which, I confess, I myself never gave any credence, but
which, I believe, imparted some hope to those who were
suffering during that period. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man opposite shakes his head, as, I dare say, he who is
in possession of the cabinet secrets has very good reason
for that signification cf his sceptism; but there were
rumours abroad that a personage of considerable import-
ance, who had even reached the highest class in the peer-
age, did commit that great sin of political economy, of
sympathising with the sufferings of the farmers of the
country. I was always sceptical on the subject—indeed
I cared nothing about the subject. I don't care if
any duke in the land gives his adhesion to those prin-
ciples which I advocate in this house, or whether he an-
nounces his def,ction from them.—(Cheers.) I don't
care one jot if all the dukes in the land took either
course. It is the cause of labour in the agricultural die-
tricts—(Cheers)—or it is nothing; and if they be not the
interests of the British labourer which we uphold, all the
patronage of all the peers in the country cannot sustain
us.—(Cheers.) Still it must be acknowledged that there
were some foundations for that popular belief at the time.
There were a gre at many cabinet councils, frequent and
hurried, and the people of the country who had seen
before what were the consequences of frequent and hur-
ried cabinet councils, were full of hope and alarm. There
is a story told of a certain gentleman, who was once a
Member of this House, and afterwards the Lord Protector
of the Commonwealth, who was himself disturbed by
cabinet councils. A certain stranger waited upon him,
and ho sent him away by saying that " he was seeking
the Lord." When he got rid ef the stranger, he said,
" What a simpleton the man must be ! Ile thinks I
was seeking the Lord, while I was only seeking
the corkserew."—(A. laugh, and cries of " Oh, oh.")
So it was with the late cabinet councils. The people
of England thought that the cabinets of England
were guilty of the high sin of sympathising
with their distress. The people thought the
cabinet was seeking the Lord, but the councils fre-
quently, hurried as they were, merely terminated in a
cabinet dinner; and it turned;out that instead of seek-
ing the Lord, they were only seeking the corkscrew.—
(Cries ef " Oh, oh," and cheers.) Now, after all, the
Cabinet puts a bold front upon the question; and the
only way they can get out of the scrape, according to
their idea t f Parliamentary tactics, is, by asking the
Hon. Member fir Wolverhampton to come forward on
the present occasion. We have the Address to the
Throne moved by an old Member e f the Anti-Corn
League, and seconded by a Member of the new Parlia-
mentary Reform League.—(Cho ere.) I must do this
justice to the candour of the Hon. Seconder, that he in-
troduced the topic in his speech to which he is of course
devoted, though it does not appear in the Address to her
Majesty. He expressed a hope—the (areal if the Go-
vernment, be it remembered—that her Majesty's Go-
vernment wore prepared to support those opinions to
which he has himself recently given in his adhesion at
Freemasons' Hall. But no Member of the Government
has answered that ingenuous inquiry—(Hear, hear)—
and it still remains a problem, how the ques-
tion is to be settled. I suppose it will be in
this case as in ono even more memorable, if
the mountain will not-go to Ministers, Ministers must,
go to the mountain.—(Cheers, and cries of " 0h,.01t., )
The Right Hon. Baronet. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer has called our attention to the state of the
manufactures of the country. It is no difficulty upon
our part to acknowledge the satisfaction with which we
I hear her Majesty's Ministers counsel their Sovereign
• that the manufacturing interests of this country are in

a flourishing condition. I may ba allowed to say very
briefly, before I touch upon that sulict, that the Right
Hon. Baronet, in noticing the complaints which had

been made by the agricultural interest of the distress
which they at this moment experienced —while he has,
in unison with the language of the Address which wo
are recommended to give to-night to the Speech
which has been delivered from the Throne—while he
has dilated upon the prospects d the manufacturing in-
terest, he has at the same time thought it his duty to
denounce the wanner in which the agricultural body have
thought fit to bring forward their complaints before the
consideration of the country and cf the Government. It
has struck me as very surprising, that that Right lion.
Baronet, who is himself a Member of the Imperial
Government,e3pecially at a moment when lie tells us that
all other interests are in a state of prosperity,
suffer-
ing, think it his duty to come forward and say that
is another
great branch, which he acknowledges himself
has acted in a manner, if not unconstitutional,
unauthorised, because they have come forward
in 'a manner quite consonant, net only with
the Speech, but the machinery of the constitution,
and expressed their sense of their suffering., and appealed
to this House or to the Throne for relief and sympathy.
The Right Hon. Baronet stated last night that there had
been very violent language used upon several recent
occasions. I thought at the time that that was a speeies
of criticism which might have been omitted. It is
r. ther unusual t carp at expressions which may be
used at county meetings, for examp!e; but really if he
is so critical, I should almost say that he has formed his
opinion of the violent language used at public assem-
blies of the people, probably in some town in the country
in which he has taken his summer recre itiona. I should
have thought that it was some of the tones of the town
of Leeds that had reached him—l should have thought
that he might have been ruminating on some of that
Jacobin jargon which may perhaps have floated to his
ears from the Free-trade Hall of the town of Man-
cheater—(hoar, hear)—and when the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, a gentleman from Yorkshire, conies forward
and says that ho not only regrets the agitation in the
rural districts, but that he disapproves of thetone and of
the strong language used at these assemblies, he might,
perhaps, have recollected that there were other popular
assemblies where the language use l was equally strong and
much more unconstitutional.—(Cheers from the Opposi-
tion benches.) I am sure at least that the Right Hon.
Gentleman would never have heard, at any county
meeting in England, that the English Constitution only
existed on sufferance. He never would have heard at an
English county meeting that the three estates of the
realm were only to be endured so long as they listened
to the dictation and the caprices ef a particular interest.
—(Hear, hear.) I will not, on this occasion, go into the
question which the Right Hon. Gentleman has raised in
relation to the value of our exports.—(Hear, hear.) I
am bound to say that, so far as time, and study, and ob-
servation assist me, I see no reason to relinquish the
opinions I have repeatedly expressed on the subject. I
believe, I know it can be proved, that the exchaugeablo
value of the products of British industry has materially
diminished- within the past few y eare.—(Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman last night said he could not
understand my arguments, which went to prove that the
manufacturers of England were content to manufacture
at a loss. I will beg to remind him of an economical
paper called the Economist, in which there has been a
series of articles moat elaborate in composition, and
most amp!, in calculations, the whole object of which
is to prove that for the last four years the ma-
nufacturers of Manchester hare been manufae-
turing at a loss.—(hear, hear.) Well, I recom-
mend the Right Honourable Gentleman—l know not
whether he has a personal acquaintance with the editor
of the Economist or not—(Laughter)—to take advantage
of his first ten minutes' leisure, and enlighten him-elf
upon that topic, and ascertain anther it be a fact that
a Manchester manufacturer can manufacture at a loss,
and even continue to manufecture at a loss. The Right
Hon. Gentleman, as he thinks, has established his case
to prove the success of his system, the success or failure
of which I do not at all consider to be the question to-
night, or in any way connect el with the amendment;
and the only reason for my referring to it is, because I
would not seem to shrink from meeting his stelementa.
He has adduced, as his test, the state of pauperism in
the country. I accept that test, as far as it is valid, to
try the efficiency and truth of his system; but I must
say that the data ho has offered us have not, in my
opinion, been fruitful of any very encouraging conclu-
sion. He has established that there is a reduction of
pauperism to the amount of something under '7
per cent. compared with last year—a year of unpa-
ralleled gloom, of unprecedented depression, which
the Right Honourable Gentleman always told us during
the last to4sion, must never bo taken as a precedent,
because it was a year when the manufacturers of Eng-
land, in every branch, were in a state of distress which
probably had never been approached for many years.
But the Right Hon. Gentleman now conies forward with
this case, that the manufacturers of England aro in a
a state of almost unparalleled prosperity, and ho says
that pauperism is reduced, compared with the last year
of gloom, to the amount of nearly 7 per cent. If, then,
the manufacturers of this country have been, and are, in
such a flourishing position—if the manufacturing popu-
lation are not altogether employed, but there is even a
demand for labour in the manufacturing districts, how
are we t) account for the fact that the rally has not
been much more considerable ? And how, when we are
called upon to congratulate the Sovereign upon the ge-
neral prosperity of the country, aro we to couple that

CYen
congratulation with the Assn and dark fact, that,
the c tse is much less encourrging, when CO remember
now, your laripirri.,rn is very insensibl:v reduced ? .Put_
the stile of the rural districts. W
Right Honourable Gentleman and his Friends' that the-I'?
was this great difference b( tveen the manuftcring and
agricultural intererts—that it was in the power off nu
eo
manufacturing interest, at periods of depression, te
themselves in a great degree from those whom they,
employed, whereas, from circumstances which I ne.f;
not now minutely detail, it was clearly irnposs.ible
these who lived in the egricultural district, ex-
these
at a long interval, by slaw degreo's
the isec.et
0 shyer told tho
with extrewe difficulty, to reduce
(hey rioployctl. And I have no hesitation in sayirg
the employment of the rural Ly pelatien during the 111:8
twelve months has been, to a very great degree—to
amount, I believe, of not less than 00 per cent.--a fa'
tioUS employment, an employine it honourable to theo
feelings which we have always cherished in this countr.fiy
ran;but which is totally opposed to those econorn!eal
ciplea advotatsd by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. N°.°6l,
imagines that the pressure f pauperism in the
nil al district; would be felt with the fetal and insto7t
neoas consequence; which are experienced in the
hives of manufacturing iedustey ; but what we oder
that though the result may he more slow, it *ill, ro
the most favourable circumstances, be much the ninth°er
permanest.—(llcar, hear.) There is, however, ° will
reason why, in the agricultural districts,
that 92.,
ti
not inure lia'ely increase. You quite forget
have in this country a .social system which throw,so
law the employment of those who are not eugagcd 1 441
hour upon a machinery which is sustained by the o.l_o,
of the owners and occupiers of larel.—(llear, !et°
and cheers.) This brings me to the second part
lot 40
amendment we have suggested, in which we the
distress
that
House, in the first place, to acknowledge a
ack n.kat
existence of which the Government themselves -
pauperism
lodged, and to allege that the cause of that distress Is
which the organ of the Government has accepte; 11.110 of
the second place, to acknowledge that the operatrerred
ha" reletion.
those legislative enactments to which I
is aggravated by the burden of local tixa and
Now, is there an in this house who wilisriseo-ses
say that agricultural distress is not aggravated Olt io,
liar burdens? It has been said, laced, that in t„ot be
stance of the occupiers of hal, the distress innY that
aggravated by there burdens; but nobody Will assay do
such burdens do not exist, and, if existing, that DSO
not press upon some one cf the agricultural classei.
I think, after the speech of the Hon. Alemter°Lr tud
verhampton, who was so ostentatiously brought „-
tor
to propose the Address, that we should have sowt Isola
conception of the nature of these burdens. Ti'ithore
Gentleman has deride] the idea that a reduction af, land.burdeas could afford any relief to the occupiers ° soder'
I want Hon. Gentlemea opposite to meet, this It AO
with some des;ree of fain ess and candour. Niew side:
night last ear Hon. Gentlemen rose on the at,",;;d and
and told us there was no diffelence beta eel' land
more tad
any other property; that land was nothing
raw maserial. Those opinions were cl7eered
tuir:pad
gentlemen opposite, they have virtually leers f",ry part
by the Government, and are, iu fact, a reoess",os den'
of their economical creed. Now what I ask the'sloprd
t'emen is—it land be only a raw material, N
WbY
tax it?—(Cheers from the Protectionist benches',ooo.
do you not extend to this raw material the sam°,
mical principles which you extend to all others e if
st4terials ? (Hoar, hear, and renee el
land be, as you say, only a raw material, whY iS
matey:tures of corn to be subjected to other eostiou tbe
principles, and another economical system, tt° tbe
manufacturer of cotton ?—(llear, hear.) :.lessThl fats
question you must meet and answer. It is on land
you to tell us that if you take off the burdens 1 not.
the owner will he benefited, but the occupier wag this
tax
The quo ;Hon is far beyond that. Why do you.,-..-od the
deoluvicetiog
raw material—this material which was
other clay by la
leader of your school at a great.oa's
as the first, the principal, raw material a a "11 opt to
dustry?—(Hear, hear.) Some gentlemen ariesountr
think that this is a question of poor-rat "b note
rates, and of church-rates. I toll them it is a Entriptigille'
complicated and extensive question than theY %,,,oroel4
From the moment an Englishman is born to the
of his burial the raw material is taxed under 1.(r) or big
sent social system, in order to guard either his h•enorish
death. If a pauper-child is born, you send th,eorCs
e fee'
doctor, and tax the raw material to pay the d°c be rc.
If the child ba not that of a pauper, As birth Intl'" rsgir
gistered, and you tax the raw material to pay thum
trar. If the child become a pauper, you theca w
immense edifice to receive him, and you tsX lunatic%
material to pay for its erection. If he is stasis
you raise an immense edifice, and tax the racrif he
to pay for that—(Hear, and a laugh.) nis,',l
a criminal, another pile arises, and you tax ther"ho din"
terial to pay the architect's bill.—(Hear.) If "'poi to
is vaccinated—(A laugh)—you tax the raw ra,,ittf,otaire'
lay the vaccination fee. The child of a on' "to Oil
who. has 40,0001. a year in the funds, is es
virulent disease as the child of the agricultaris talle
why, then, should he not pay some portion of the of the,
tiers? You cannot in this country exercise semf preen
most important duties of which an Englishman 1400r'
without taxing this raw material. If you are a Sa'sysen
the raw material is taxed to prepare the jury hit
if you wish to exercise the suffrage the rew,lll;)e NO'
taxed to prepare the list of voters.-Allear, na,se-s" V111„'
I ask the great economists, the professors of t
chest; r school and their pupils—eitherh etahne
tre'ylndaini
the late Gavernment—(A. laugh)
tain such a state of things aceordingotwo the in,,Cie Ptlir
upon which they have built their financial. and
mical system? We ask you, then, now that tn,_altot
cultural intmest is in a sta..e,of great and, as 1 11:0eCe
unprccedented depression, to come forward arid
fully. and humbly to express to the Crown your ay PO
wrth ttes, distress, and your belief that the cause ' iglisa
distress is that which has been alleged by th,°,l.°
of the Government on this occasion. Is ths' ;teen:
sonable ? Is it tictious? We ask you, in the led hi
place, to acknowledge that that distress s ag4rav-t 1
the burdens that are pressing upon the agrieultuilhoo
dustry of Great Britain and Ireland. Now ti„st„ilaghat
put this queA.on fairly before you, I want to ant shoe
man can allege a single rational reason whY.ilhe coil;
oppose these two propositions ? I have no vil6", to
eual what are my ulterior views upon the gres;hll the
of the rival industries of this country. I thinl‘
cnulthivater of the soil has a right to two !'is,
that he has a riglAwnoo Le put "hrfePrsK.
that,
as his fellow-subject—(llcar, and efr",t- to be
itneefofirst place,
I
saecondly, he has a right in his own motreesro
same
I'e:en:nalssentients
tpthhueetsauee are not • tooting
must govern nations, cf
fr
admit that I am greatly
with the foreigner.—(rub
sled up
just princiles—if they are not. fohunito; pi
tchaetins in IP7II, theaot
rilg.ahtitewnshichn;ust
.0 tb
were are
gentitmheentisillowftehs
mistaken. I ani lf,
ets
m the declarations that have been rathe,reofl
from
them during this debate as from the lang°%bis
Speech from the Throne, Ishould suppose tho
supp its yle
an insignificant interest , that was so urgent sonssa
tress as to ask for your sympathy, and Si)unr teteis
re 0.
Goovferrilja-:fssc;
in its suffering
as to suggest the possibility cs sec
We are told that they are only " the (Poe" for stirllis't
'potredrs of land." One of my friends, the Mei:ober on
.tile.
f (Ur. Ilerries) has touched 111) atie"
very that.!
it
not a ela„ for
point; he has shown on that. it los,. !snare,whosiisecos,
merely of the owners andYinocacupireerast touarto;
tunes to-night you are, narro thatot:
upon.
But 1 shall take a much.g more
the question before I ask for your vote- 13°,0t
is only the owners and occupiers of 10-iv aid-pa
thinking themselves aggrieved, and certag? itvnu
own acknowledgment suffering, are coming so In
asking you to interfere in their favour, are shdeii'ioo
merous a class, are they in number and in alit,-srliaattibio
significant that it becomes statesmen sau,L,co
~"„ros
to pass them by di
sr a.slegarded and unhee"osso,oooross
there are according to the best accounts e of Or 0,
priet ms of the soil in the united hinls
,g6l°X 10°!„1 :14
Britain and Ireland.—(Hear hear.) It s Jets
merous class—the most numerous separate c-B etm; t¢'
country, as regards property; if theY area 0119 to
slightly by the proprietors in the funds, Yr)fundi 1)F0
fmember that many cf the proprietors in th,ein oentefon
oreigners. Are the occupiers of land "i et? POO
tible in number, in character, and iu conuas 700,.,01
have, according to the most moderate acconal Britain "ite
130
farmers in the united kingdom cf Gret's,„"weert
Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Why, take your':":, and the
your occupiers, with their immediate fdlo"';-;' 01100
alone is an affair of millions.—(" Hear, 110,9" e onot
Opposition.) You acknowledge that t" (:,:ledge
are in a state of great distess—you aclot-ecple'loooo
are in a state of great distress, in cA°-.syoutoil
your recent legislative enactments ;
your Sovereign to treat their feelings, a';nr, Pei do'
and mockery. (Renewed cries cf totle ° 00„,1
Why, one u ould have supposed from the "nn th,,eno t"
debate, that we had come forward to-night' ;sit ',jells°
assembly cf this session of Parliament, Lap-d, to ';oote,
repeal the laws that you have recently tato ha" thP
all the principles of political economy the
shrined; that you should come forward aiwoolf,.ro"pose
you have flagrantly erred, and that riurt,,no post
you
for national regeneration was to fall boo' r"fi re ntli'
legit}', tot
lion which you have quitted. Is it so? rfr- e P-1113"-
gentleman on this side who shrinks tie
on s abt ~4
occasion from advocating, to the best of "'; p°'ls
bat
principles upon which we think the illdUS dent
this country ought to be established; butA to Os; 01
this is the occasion on which we are (011'a-th t gk;
troversy and that battle.—(Hear.) A" 7Sig of r
asked of you is this—that it being aPPar°„l: 'boti„f tt.
matter of national notoriety that ef a b.iog hie
nation is in a state of suffering—that it e' e s go'
on ti oios
of Parliamentary acknowledgment, eve" on°
the Government, that that suffering has --,T-121" house
by our recent changes in the laws-C ou
hear")—you should come forward—that 3;010 to the
think it decent to come forward and "Ps° °fires'.
Sovereign your recognition of the eablio- di' 010
suffeing, and your sympathy with yoll can'
—(Hear, bear.) Instead of that being! the cant
ng to
pretended it to be, in a manner not flatterf aOl
°tit Vigil verlicie
dour of Pai liamentary discussion, an
on the first night of Paiiianseet meeting, te,e,,sreseite
House it
of Commons suddenly to ahregste,t'frieed,:reioP
which the Parliament of England hal rap vsnioti
sou;
pubil,op,r to
'wiser (if it does anything) indicates
guided by justice, by that high principle
_a ODD oith
which must in the long run influence eve_ri;lanathYt th°
express tititato
this country, you may not only
but OF. (vou to
your suffering fellow.countrymens
sources for the remedy of their , for Iho.l°
hear.) Do not suppose that it is poSsll,,,lear,
escape the settlement of this question.
n,.`insajero
You may pride yourself upon your accida
.7„11 tiy! and
arraycheers)—you may pride Yeal.,,,eitions'ooos'
array of three parties, full of hostile asolbriegot ISI
unanimous only in their hostility to 69400'0/Wel
munity—(Great cheering from the oppo hop on
ewes
have the happiness of living in an le.„vviten of rarl
to truth is never unsuccessful, an" ')
principles c f justice must be the fotiussrag, bow
unwary statutes.—(Loud cries of