The Sun.
London, England, 1850-08-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, August 6.
BOROUGH GAOLS BILL.
OD the motion of Lord BEAUMONT, this Bill passed
thrc ugh Committee.
FEES COURT OF COMMON PLEAS.
This Bill wrs read a second time.
PRIVALEGE.—JUDICIAL BUSINESS OF THE
Lard B HOUSE.
ROUGHAM rose to draw their Lordships'
attention to a violent and slanderous attack made on the
HmanTaer of conducting the judicial proceedings in that
ouse, and a more unjustifiable and indecent attack had
never been
made on an court of justice. It was one thing
to et,mm
y
ant even with scurrility upon the proceedings of
that
use tu its political capacity, but another
thingtHo to comment on their proceedings as a court
of.
justice. This last course tended to bring the
It
'fin"itl'stcutiQn of justice-into contnapt. Stoll an attack

~~~

upon the Courts of Queen's Bench, Common Pleas, or
Chancery, would subject the off-erfier to condign punish-
ment, and surely those who were guilty of such an attack
on a court superior to them all should subject the offender
to the punishment of imprisonment and fine. For some
weeks pa.t he had sat with other Noble Friends, he
being the only law Lord, to dispose of appeals. The
ignorance of the person making these attacks was in-
conceivable. That person said that he (Lord Brougham)
had only so sat since his Noble Friend had held
the Great Seal; such was not the case; he had heard
these causes during the time the Great Seal was in com-
mission, and he had dispose 1 of several most important
cases; he had sat until five o'clock and not risen at
tour, and this was of great importance to suitors,
because if a cause could be finished by sitting an addi-
tional hour the suitor was saved the expense of re-
freshers and of additional fees, which would have had
to be paid if the cause had been adjourned
to the next day. He had on every occasion heard
all that could be urged. He had also sat on Wednes-
days and Saturdays, his object being to cut down the
arrenr before the rising of Parliament. He had suc-
ceeded is that object. He had disposed of every
cause except one, which stood far to-morrow; and he
had given juclgmAlt in every one, and he warned his
Noble Friend on the Woolsack, who would hereafter
preside over those appeals, against the bad habit of post-
poning the judgment until some of the circumstances of
the case and the impression of the arguments should
have been effaced from the mind.—(Hear, hear.) He
considered it was the b)unden duty of every judge to
as short a period as possible elapse between the
hearing of the argument and giving judgment, In
tour cases brought before their Lordships
on appeal the decisions had been reversed,
in the others they had been affirmed ; and he
would engage to say that the profession was sa-
tisfied with his decisions. He should not read the
ribaldry or the attacks on his character, which he de-
spised, but he would take the assertions; first of all, it
was said that it had never been heard of that
a single'law Lord, who was not a judge, had sat to hear
appeals until his Noble Friend (Lord Truro) had been
appointed to the Woolsack. Why, it had taken place
in 1835. It was very true that ass Irish demagogue, who
had fastened a quarrel on him, had interposed to prevent
him from
.presiding during the time the Great Seal was
in commission, and his Noble Friend the Earl of
Shaftesbury had in consequence come down and pre-
sided, he (Lord Brougham) sitting in his place
and deciding, and the only consequence of
that interference of the Irish demagogue was,
that counsel standing at the bar were obliged to twist
their necks in order to address him in his place. (The
Noble and Learned Lord then proceeded to read portions
of the article in the Daily News to which he wished to
direct the attention of the House.) He denied that
any remonstrance had been presented by the Bar to the
Lord Chancellor against his (Lord Brougham's) sitting
in the House of Peers to hear appeals. lie declared that
there was no shadow of foundation for these assertions,
and that they were the reverse of the truth. No remon-
strance from the Bar would prevent him from performing
his duty, but he should be surprised to hear that for the
first time there had been a vote of want of confidence by
the Barin his learning and_honour.

The LORI) CHANCELLOR regretted exceedingly
this attack which had been made on his Noble and
Learned Friend for the very valuable services
which he had rendered to the country by disposing of
the appals. In consequence of the illness of Lord
Cottenham, and of the Vice-Chancellor of Eng-
land and Vice-Chancellor Wigram, the business had
aceumulmed to such an extent that he could not have
disposed of them, had not his Noble Friend presided
in this House. There had been no communica-
tion made to him from the Bar with regard
to the manner in which his Noble Friend had
discharged his duty, and the only c mmunication
he had received from an individual member of the Bar
was to express his high satisfaction at the judgments of
his Noble and Learne 1 Friend. He thought these
attacks emanated from some personal enemy,
and were only worthy of contempt, for his
Noble and Learned Friend had presided here too often
to be affected by them. If they were often repeated
it might be worth while to notice them, but an isolated
tvtack of this sort should be treated with contempt. The
country and their Lordships were under the greatest
obligations to his Noble and Learned Friend for having
completely got rid of these arrears.—(Hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON thought the House
was under the greatest obligation to his Noble and
Learned Friend for the great activity he had
exhibited in getting rid of the accumulation
of arrears, and he thought his Noble and Learned
Friend was right in drawing the attention of the.
House to these foul libels in the administration of
justice by this House. If by any chance there should
have been error in any of the decisions pronounced by
his Noble and Learned Friend, he was much mistaken
if there were not many in that House capable of discover-
ing what was wrong; and, until errors were discovered,
the House was bound to look on his decisions as satis-
factory. He hoped the Noble Lord would not withdraw
himself from aiding in the judicial business of the House
on account of attacks like these.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said it was almost
unnecessary for him to say anything, but he certainly
felt bound to express his concurrence in the remarks of
the Noble Duke, and must bear his testimony to the
services rendered to the House by the Noble and Learned
Lord, who devoted his time, talents, and experience to
sustain the dignity and character of the judgments of
that House.—(Hear.) He was unacquainted with the
article in quesqon, and with the particular merits of the
cases on which his Noble and Learned Friend had been
called on to decide; nevertheless, he felt a deep convic-
tion that the judgments which he had pronounced on
those appeals being open to those Members of the House
who, as the Noble Duke had said, were most competent
to discover error, must, until errors were pointed out, be
assumed as correct. He thought the public derived
great benefit from the cervices of the Noble and Learned
Lord, and, therefore, it was not necessary to pursue this
matter further.

The orders of the day were then proceeded with.
SMALL TENEMENTS RATING BILL.

Upon the motion that the Bill be read a third time,
The Earl of HARDWICKE moved that it be read a
third time that day six mouths.
The motion was subsequently withdrawn.
The Bill was read a thud time and passed.
On the motion of Lord BROUGHAM, the Adminis
tration of Justice (in Court of Chancery) Acts Continu-
ance Bill was read a third, time and passed.
Lord BROUGHAM then gave notice of his intention,
on Thursday next, to call the attention of the House to
the state of the criminal law.

PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL.
The Commons' amendments to this Bill were brought
up to be considered.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he would pro-
ceed to call their Lordships' attention to the amend-
ments made by the other House on a Bill which had been
much discussed by their Lordships, and which had been
sent up for adoption by their Lordships. He would
shortly state the amendments made by their Lordships,
to which the other House had agreed. The first was to
exclude any fraudulent occupier from voting under this
'Bill, by requiring occupation for a given period. They also
had agree.] to the omission of the clause enabling joint cc-
cupierq to vote. Their Lordships thought that the qualifi•
cation should be 151. The House of C JEOMOUS had sent
this Bill up with an amendment, substituting a 121. quali-
fication for that of 151. as proposed by their Lordships.
He wished a Bill to pass which should do sway with all
cause of ferment in Ireland. It was by a representative
Government alone that any part of the kingdom could
remain happy and contented, and he therefore hoped
their Lordships would not so nullify the effect of the
franchise, by Making it so high as to exclude any large
portion of the people. If they did so, they would find
unconstitutional modes of expressing their opinion, which
might be attended with great danger.—(hear, hear.)
That was therefore an amendment to which he earnestly
entreated their Lordships to assent. There was another
amendment restoring the clause by which the clerks of
the peace were required to record the names of all per-
sons entitled to be upon the register, and also to record
all their votes. There was another amendment as to dates.
The remainining a amendments were of no particular con-
sequence, and en reating an approval of the amendments
to which he had particularly alluded, be left them for
their Lordships' consideration.
Lord STANLEY said he did not intend again to re-
open the whole question, which had been very fully dis-
cussed. He had heard with some surprise the amend-
ments of. the other House enumerated by the Noble
Lord. They did hot appear to him to be of a very ma-
terial or important nature.' He contended that the per-
soffs holding property should be bona-fide occupants, else
they should not be entitled to a vote. He explained on
a former occasion to the Noble Marquis (the Marquis
of Lansdowne) that his motive for the rejection of
the clause relative to the joint occupier was because
he knew that there were several consequential
.clauses dependent upon it which could not be entertained.
Now he should again raise the same objection against
the amendment of the House of Commons, which went
so far as to reduce the joint occupier's assessed rate
from 121. to U. There were two other points which
had been already discussed by their Lordships and car-
ried by a majority. This the House of Commons wished
by their vote to rescind; the one was the assessed rate
of 15/., the other was the self-acting registration clause.
He, therefore, hoped, that their Lordships would adhere
to their former decision, and not by any means reject
the rating of 151., particularly as they considered that it
should be the lowest rate of qualification that could be
beneficial to the people 'of :Ireland, for it would properly
balance the poiser that'exifted between the proprietors
of land and the numerical Strength of the lower classes.
He argued that the amount of 15/. was what the consti-
tuency of that country required, as it would include per-
sons who lived in the neighbourhood of towns, though
not possessing more than four acres. He feared that in
the result of those amendments being carried by their
Lordships that neither intelligence nor property would
be consulted, but the numerical mass of illiterate and
unenlightened, and that consequently property would
be overbalanced by numbers. He contended that
the present question was one of degree and not
of principle, and he felt it his duty, consequently, to offer
every opposition in his power to it. It was well known
that the constituency of Ireland had fallen very low,
owing, as their Lordships knew, to several causes, and
this telling off was more especially illustrated in the
county Mayo, where, at the last election, there were
not more than 230 voters who polled, though he was well
informed there were a great number of electors at that
time in the county, many of whom were prevented from
recording their votes through the instrumentality of the
priests. It was well known that neither the
question of
y
foreign or domestic Policy, nor that of an diffarence be-
tweets England and Ireland, nor of free-trad e policy, en-
gag( d the attention of the people, but a stern opposition
to the landlords, and that actuated by the priesthood of
that country, which he pronounced to be most scandalous.
In a word, he felt assured that the Hon. Gentleman who
was returned obtained his seat, not by the property or

intelligence, but by the dictation of the Roman Catholic
Arcabi,hop and his clergy. Tale he considered to be a
question which required the due deliberation of their
Lordships—this was a case where one step taken in the
wrong direction would prove to be irretrievable. He
argued that the Noble Marquis was not correct
in his calculation, in which he comp treil the
number of voters in England, Scotland, and Wales,
with that of Ireland ; and should his project,
and that of the Government in the House of
Commons be carried out, be feared that it would
throw greater influence and power into the hands of the
lower classes of the people of Ireland than that pos-
sessed by the people of any of the other three countries
to which he had already alluded. He was fully assured
that of the 25,000 tenantry in the county of Mayo, there
were over 40,000 who were not rated at more than Si.
He hoped that if their Lordships had any, judgment (and
that he felt assured they had) they would adhere to their
former decision, and uphold the 151. rating. He should
next say that he was astonished that the Noble Marquis,
who had so strenuously opposed the 81. rating on the
joint occupiers, should now have altered his opinion, and
acquiesced with the opinion of Government in the House
of Commons, in opposition to his own avowed opinion
in that House, for he felt assured that the 8/. clause
see lid not be sufficient, and that nothing but the 124
clause would answer the object of the Bill. He would
next allude to the compulsory clause, for it we.s most
unjust that persons who wished as attend to their re-
spective business should be coerced to register, and thus
be exposed to the anger and animosity either of their
landlords or their priests. Collis? anything be more
harassing or objectionable than that the lower classes
should be coerced to put their names on the registry,
which must necessarily interfere with the influence, in-
telligence, and the respectability of the country; yet, at
the same time, he should admit that there was a dif.
ference of opinion on this question in Ireland, and he
should say, that on this compulsory question, as well as
the other, that their Lordships should strictly adhere to
their former opinion. In a word, he thought that it
would be better to uphold the old system rather than
adopt so pernicious a measure as that suggested by the
House of Commons.—(Hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE was of a totally
different opinion with the Noble Lord (Stanley) as to
the effect of the working of this measure in Ireland.
the believed it was the only way in which they would
obtain a representative system commensurate with the
population and property of Ireland. The question was
really, not whether there should be a franchise founded
upon a 121. or a 15/. qualification, but whether they
should have such a constituency as would fairly repre-
sent the people of Ireland. He contended that the
amendment of the Noble Lord would be the ruin of
the landed property of Ireland. As the 104 franchise
was the ruin of what was called the squirearchy, so the
raising the qualification to 15/. now would throw the re-
presentation into the hands of the small traders and
shopkeepers. The Noble Lord had referred to the
Mayo election in terms that the circumstances of that
election did not warrant; but he begged to remind the
Noble Lord that so far from there being no principle in-
volved, the candidate who was returned for the Mayo
constituency was one who declared himself in favour of
free trade, while his opponent was an advocate of what
was called the protective system. He did not deny
that efforts were made to prevent some of the electors of
Mayo from recording their votes, but that was an argu-
ment in favour of the enlargement of the constituency,
in which case such an event could not arise. He hoped
their Lordships would not adopt an amendment which
would have the effect of improperly narrowing the
constituency of Ireland. lie was satisfied that a better
proposition, or one more in accordance with tree insti-
tutions, had never been submitted to that House. He
was surprised that the intelligence and judg-
ment of the Noble Lord did not satisfy him that the
measure before the House was the best that could be
devised for conferring a suitable constituency upon Ire-
land, and would give his vote in favour of the restora-
tion of the 12/. quaiiticaiion.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the 124 franchise,
Present
Proxies „, ... 70-126
For the 154 franchise,
Present
Proxies 52 —ll4

Majority for the 121. franchise

The Earl of DESART then rose and moved the rejec-
tion of the Commons' amendment making the regkra-
don self-acting. He could not, consistently nith his
sense of duty, concur in the amendment, fur he regarded
it as little short of persecution to the voter. He should
be sorry to see their Lordships' reverse a decision at
which they had arrived by a largo majority, without any
change of circumstances in the interval, and could not
help thinking that the result of such a course would be
to inflict a heavy blow and great discouragement to those
hopes with which Ireland was beginning to regard their
Lordships House. He regretted to see the Government
so prone to yield to agitation, or rather to apprehended
agitation, for the result of such a course had always been
to encourage the evil which it sought to repress.
Lord STANLEY advised his Noble Friend not to
divide the House, although he remained quite uncon-
vinced by the arguments which had been urged against
their Lordships' previous decision, and believed that by
reversing that decision they would be introducing
a dangerous principle, which was capable of being
extended with equally mischievous effoct to England.
But when he recollected that among those Noble
Lords who were present the same opinion prevailed as
when their last vote was given on this point; when he
recollected that the majority of their Lordships who
were in favour of insisting on their own amendments had
been more than counterbalanced by the large majority
of proxies—(Hear, hear)—when ho remembered, also,
that that majority, however powerful might be the argu-
ments used, was incapable of being affected by any dis-
cussion, for the "litera scripta wanet" ho felt that it
would be a mere waste of their Lordships' time to trouble
them again. If it depended, indeed, on those who were
present and were willing to hear arguments, he would
have no fear for the result, and would request his Noble
Friend to persist in his motion. But as he presumed
the Government would take the very convenient course
of sheltering themselves from an adverse majority by
calling forth their proxies, he would suggest to his Noble
Friend that he would he unnecessarily taking up their
Lordships' time by calling on them to divide. On a
former occasion he had commented upon a majority si-
milarly obtained, and it had been said over and over
again that he desired to deprive their Lordships of the
right of voting by proxy. He desired no such thing.
He desired to maintain that right—(Hear, hear)—but
he must say there never had been any Government so
much indebted as the present to that means of obtaining
a majority; and, however convenient or necessary it
might be, he hardly thought it satisfactory that the Go-
vernment should continually depend on such means of
reversing the opinion of those present.—(llear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, of course the
Noble Lord would take that course which he thought
best adapted to secure his own objects, but he (the Mar-
quis of Lansdowne) could hardly be expected to facili-
tate them. He would certainly call for proxies, being
convinced that in doing so he was following a perfectly
legitimate course, and one to which the Noble Lord bad
himself resorted before now.
Lord STANLEY—I never called for them when I
was in a minority.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE thought that if the
Noble Lord would search the journals be would tind that
his (the Marquis of Lansdowne'e) impression was correct.
However that might be, he maintained that if ever there
was a question upon which voting by proxy might be
held to indicate a distinct opinion it was this, for the
subject had been before the public for three months. It
hid been agitated both in that and the other House of
Parliament, and the nature of the amendments intro-
duced by the other House was perfectly well known.
Of course the Noble Lord could divide the House if he
thought proper, and if he thought he would thereby gala-
s single vote he would advise him to do so.
The Earl of DESART was understood to withdraw
his amendment, and the Commons' amendments were
agreed to.
The Bills on the table were forwarded a stage, and
Their Lordships adjourned.