The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-02 00:00:00

THEQSVN, 4-491 PON, TITESDAYaTTENING, APRIL 2, 1844.

Lord STANLEY—Yes, she was at Spithead or Ply-
mouth.. Now; the Passage-money-to which-Sir Robert
Wilson was .entitled for going ouD was 200 L,
,and Sir
Alexander Woodford' was entitietito the same srim for
his passage-money homewards. The Warspite was
lying idle, and it cost no more to send, her out with Sir
Robert Wilson to Gibraltar, and bringing Sir Alexander
home, than to pay to those two officers their passage-
money. On theeontrary, it cost lessfor the payments
actually made to them, -whieh—amounted to 9IL 10s.
each ; so that on, the point of economy the,cost had.been
less than that' if the one had gone out and the other
had-come back in the ordinary packet. But he would
ask the House whether there was not a certain amount
of consideration attached to a representative of her Ma-
jesty in going out thus to' his government.-,;(llear.)
He did not by any means say that expense .wasto be no
consideration, but if a ship was thus in. commission and
was lying idle, he did consider it had been, under the
circumstances, advantageously employed in conferring
power- and, consideration upon an officer going to take
the command-of so • important a Governorship and for •
tress as that ef Gibraltar.--.(Hear.) ,
• Sir C. NAPIER did not like that sort of reasoning
at all. It was not the mere expense of going from Spit-
head .to Gibraltar and back, but it,was the expense of
putting a ship in commission, and getting her crew, and
making her fit for sea and for duty, that was to be looked
at. Ships were not fitted out but at an enormous cost
to the country ; they were not fitted out for passage
boats, but • for far different work. He recollected well
being captain of a ship for two years, and all he had to
do during that period was to take out a Governor and a
Commissioner_ to the West Indies.L4Laughter.) He
called it great waste.—(Hear; hear.) ' He repeated, and
he was sure- the country and- the service would. agree
with him,that British ships of war. ought not to be made
into passage-boats. .
Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE, in reference to the Hon.
Gentleman's (Mr. Hume's) other question, begged to say
that the expenses now charged for Mr. M`Gregor were
incurred in the year 1842 and in the early: part. of 1843.
With regard to the general question as to the Stade
duties; he was happy to say an arrangement was likely
to be come to very speedilys but the • nature of, that ar-
rangement it.woold be improper in him to communicate.
Mr. HUME said, he observed in these estimates that
the public were charged with fees • for the conferring
honours upon individuals. If there were such fools to
be 'found as to seek these things, 'he really thought they
ought themselves to pay ; for them.—(Laughter, and
Hear, hear.). He .thought a Committee upon this and
some other items would do a deal of good, and he did
not knoW but what he should move, for one. Again, .in.
p. 11, he found.an item, 1011. fora surgeon for the Scilly
Isles, and 421. for medicine for the Scilly Isles. He
wished to know who were the proprietors of these
Scilly Isles ?—(Laughter.) • •
-The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I do
not exactly know who the, proprietors are.—(Laughter.)
Mr. HUME—Then what business have you paying
doctors and medicines for them.—(Laughter.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
fact was, a communication, had been made to the Go-
vernment representing that the people in these isles were
sorely afflicted with disease, and were in the most de-
plorable state for medical help, which they had no means
of procuring, and it was thought a duty not to refuse as-
sistance so dreadfully needed, and the cost of which was
so small.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME said he perceived there was a sum of
2,3001. set down as the salary.and expenses of the Mar-
shal of the Queen's Bench Prison for three-quarters. of a
year. The fornier Marshal of'the prison, he understood,
had 6,000/. a year. He had complained of it again and
again, and he had been assured that the salary would in
future be more moderate. He wished to know what the
salary of the present Marshal was ?
Mr. M. SUTTON said that the salary of the Marshal
of the Queen's Prison was 700/. a year.
Mr. HUME said be should move for a detailed ac-
count of the salary and allowances of this officer. He
also complained of the sum of 3201. charged for bring-
ing silver from the Bank of Ireland to the Bank of
England.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex-
plained that the silver was brought over to accommodate
the Bank of. England, during the great demand for silver.
Mr. HUME thought the item ought to have been
carried to the general account of the expenses of calling
in the coinage.
The CHANCELLOR of the 'EXCHEQUER again
explained that there was at the time a great accumula-
tion of.silver in the Bank of Ireland, which was lying
there useless, while there was a great demand for it in
demand
England, and therefore it.was brought over here, but
that the expense could not be charged to the Bank of
England.
Mr. HUME said he had warned the Right Hon.
was calledld
arise'
Gentleman qf the inconvenience that would arise when
tthhee coßinaangke vvfoars -fitrisiet cgarlleeadt th
"i
IT he goald t
wou
without any proviSion being made by the Mint or
for silver, in consequence of sovereigns being
made receivable only at.a certain ' weight. Great incon-
venience was feltin consequence; some bankers had had
to give one per cent. for silver to furnish their custo-
mers with, and in some cases silver was not to be pro-
cured at all. There was great culpability somewhere ;
the large establishment of the. Mint was at such a junc-
ture perfectly useless, no additional coinage of silver
having been made ;it went on in its old jog-trot man-
ner. This was not the way in which a great public de-
partment ought to be conducted. It had the power of
working four. times as. much as it did, yet no increase
was made, notwithstanding the great pressure
for silver felt by the public. This charge of 3201. ought
to be-paid either by the Master of the Mint or by the
Right Hon. Gentleman, he did not tnow which—(Hear,
hear)—it was a charge the public revenue ought not to
be subjected to. But though he 'made these observations,
he begged to say that the present estimates were the
best he had ever seen submitted to• the House of. Com-
mons.—(Hear,:,liear. BLit still.they might have been
better.—(Hear, hear.)
Captain PECHELL thought that the Committee had
not had a sufficient explanation of the charge made of
sending out one of'the largest class of ships to Gibraltar
with the Governor Sir Robert Wilson. He objected to
the employmentoelarge ships of war for such a purpose.
It hid been made to appear that it was the cheapest
mode, but this could not be ascertained unless they had
a return of the cost of the wear and tear of one of these
large ships during a passage of fourteen days in the
winter season. • -
Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH objected to several
items of expenditure, such as 5501. for abstracts of the
accounts of turnpike trusts,- and 4591. Ils. 2d. to the
Poor-la Commissioners for preparing certain returns
ordered "by the 'Government. =
Mr. COLLETT said he perceived Thera was a sum of
2,945/. for the cartoons which were exhibited in West-
minster Hall. He wished to know whether this was
-the amount, after- deducting the, money which was re-
ceived from those who paid ls. each to see them before
the public was admitted ? -
Sir G. CLERIC said the sum referred to by the Hon.
Gentleman was' the amount paid as pr defray the ex•
penses of fitting up the Hall, and for the paytisent of
those who attended.. There was a balance remaining
of 200 L, which would go to: meet the expenses of the
other works of art which were advertised to be seen in
the ensuing month.
Sir C. NAPIER said he understood there was a con-
siderable disagreement between. Sir II• rottinger, their
Minister in China, and the naval and military officers
employed there, the latter not liking to be placed under
a civilian. He wished to know from the Noble Lord
the Secretary for the Colonies whether there was any
truth in this -report ? He wished' also to know why it
was that a frigate should be employed to convey Sir. R.
Wilson to such a petty place as Gibraltar, while. Sir C.
Metcalf was sent to Canada in the Columbia? The
Noble Lord talked of the dignity of sending a Governor
in a Than-of-war, but he did not see what dignity there
could be in sending out a frigate to Gibraltar.
Lord STANLEY, said he had do hesitation in telling
the Hon. and Gallant Officer that general instructions
had been sent ont to the naval and military-officers, in
consequence of-the anomalous position of their affairs in
China, at the time, that they should render Sir 11. Pot-
finger every, service in carrying on his operations. He
believed there Was somedifference of opin ion with regard to
the nature of the services they were to perform, but there
was not theislighestdifferenee of opinion during the whole
course of their military operations. Whatever con-
struction might be put on the instructions, he did not
believe that there was 'any difference with regard to the
-cordial discharge, of their duties by the officers. With
• regard to the second question, he. thought that it would
create more respect for him if they sent out the Go-
vernor of Gibraltar in a frigate, particularly as there
was one to spare. Sir C. Metcalf went to Canada in the,
Columbia, because it was-more eonveniene for him than
if he went in a frigate, which could not, at the period he
went out, Ow him to the scat of Government. -
Sir'Cs NAPIER expressed himself satisfied nith the
answer of the Noble Lord to .the first question, but he
could tell the Noble Lord that a most, deserving officer,
Lord John Hay, gaye up his Ship in disgust at being
constantly employed in this service. -
Ms. aL.L O'CONNELL objected to the 'payment of
80/. to Mr. BroWnrigg;the inspector of constabulary, for
making an analysis of the Arms Act, which was of no
use, and very badly drawl' up. •
Lord ELIOT said in reference to what had been said
by the Ilon.• Member for Roseorrncrn, that he did not
think 'the items to which he referred could be objected
to. With 'respect to Mr. Bi•ownrigg, he was supposed
'to be. a person very competent .to make an abstract of
the-Act referred to by the Hon. Gentleman, and the
80/. was for the eipenses
of preparing a number of copies
for the different constabulary stations.
Mr. M. O'FERRALL, in allusion to the item of
.591. 175., for the expenses of a Commission of Inquiry
into certain alleged inalversations on the part of certain
officers of Kilinainhani gaol, in connection with the ex-
pense of convicts, complained, that although Major
Palmer (who had beNt, according to the report of the
CominissionerS, guilty of gross negligence), had been
dismissed 'by the Treasury from the office he held
'connection with the, convict establishment in Kileartin-
ham gaol ; yet he had been continued by the Irish Go-
vernment in the office of. Inspector-General of the
Prisons of Ireland. : •
Sir G. CLERK admitted that, although the report
acquitted Major Palmer orall knowledge of a participa-
tion in the malversations alluded to, yet it stated that
he had been guilty of gross negligence, and, therefore,
he had been removed from his office ; but no complaint
had been made against lain in 'his office of Inipector-
General of rrisons, De had satisfactorily performed
the duties of, that office. for twenty-threeyears. He had
introduced many, and great improvements into the ma-
nagement of the
,prison, and, therefore, it had been
depused advisable ao coutitiae , his office.
Mr. M. O'FERI(ALL'S cemplaint vvae, against the
'Noble Lord :for continuing in office a man whom the
frreasury.had dismi-sgo for grow negiloat,
Mr. F. Tr BAllelaVea.kliatzel; etailideiabeseXPLauittleal
► of the Eight lion, Daronet to be at all satieNctory.

Now, the least thing, he thought, which the. King of Ha-,
never could do, in return for the 21,000/ which he received:
annually from this country; was to take care of its inte-
rests at, his own Court. He objected also Lo a charge:
Which he saw, for the conveyance, in some of the vessels
Of war, 'of two Princes of Prnssikand their •respective,
suitess--Prince Adelberg from Riode Janiero: to Peras
and another Prince from Java to Beyrout,. and thence
to. Constantinople. He.thoughtit quite enough to furnish
them with vessels to convey them and their suites front one
place to another withoutat the same time:paying the ex;
penses of their passage. There was another charge, of
a very singular nature, to which he had an objeetioni
'lt was 77/. Is. 4d., the amount of Messrs. Vizard and
Main's bill Of costs in an action bronght against- Lord
Brougham, in his official capacity, when. Lord Chan
cellOrof England. , He thought thatif the Lord Chan-.
cellor left himself open in.his official capacity: to such.a
charge, he ought to pay at himself.. He objected also to
the very heavy charges that were made for sending out
Governors to some of our petty coloniess--for instance, to
Van Diemen's Land and New Zealand, in each of which
the cost was 800/. That was a monstrous charge. Why
the population of New Zealand did not amount to more
than 5,000 persons altogether. It ought to be shoWn
whether such charges were at all, necessary. . There
were several others of a similar kind, but he referred tei
these as being of .the largest amount. Again, the ex•t
. peaces for robes and.collars for-the Knights of the seve-1
ral Orders were-charged at 1,2021, and the bill of Messrs,
Gerrard and Co. .for repairing the saixte'was'no, less than
1,152/. NO w this was an expenditure to which he altogether,
objected, for he thought the Knights themselves one-4
to pay for their own decorations. Then there was they
funeral of the .late Duke of Sussex. No one.more highly!
esteemed that lamented nobleman when aline, nor ha
greater veneration for his memory, but still he thoughl
that a charge 0f_1,352/. for his funeral expenses could]
and ought to have been avoided. With respect tot
colonial bishops, they had been often told in • that;
House when the matter was discussed, that .they gave
rise to no public expenditure. Now, he found that.no'•
less, than five of those colonial bishops were receiving)
the public money,•and employing our ships of war and'
steamers, in conveying them from one place to another.]
They . were the Bishops .of Jamaica, Newfoundland,l
Tasmania, Gibraltar—and with respect to the latter!
he found a charge •of 2101. for the conveyance of him-1
self and suite on board her Majesty's steam-vessel, the'
Devastation, from Gibraltar- to Constantinople and'
back. He thought it was quite enough to have sup-
plied the Right Rev. Prelate with the passage in a Go-
vernment vessel, With Out also paying for the expenses
of his Suite. There was another item, which he re-
quested the Right. Hon. Baronet to be good enough to
explain. It was to the Bishop of Chester for preachers
in. Lancashire, for eleven years and :a half, begin-
ning on . the 15th of April, 1832, and ending
on the 10th of October, 1843, 1,3221. Bs. He sup-
posed that the money had- been refused by the
late Government, and hence the present demand. Ite
should like to know the reason that could be assißied
for another another Singular vote, namely, for watering
Parkgate-street, in Dublin, in the summers of 1841 and
1842, 681, 17s. 6d. There was another vote to which he
wished to call attention, namely, the sum of 4001. for the
College of St. David's. He did not regret that there
was such an item.; he only complained of the sum as
being too small, being quite inadequate to supply a good
system of education for the clergy of Wales who were
educated there. In fifteen parishes, in the immediate
neighbourhood of that college, the tithes were in the
hands of one: layinapropriator. to -the amount of not less
than 6,000/..each parish, thus furnishing 4,0001. to that
single layman, while the twenty-one clergymen who
served those parishes received .71/. 10s. from each. -He
mentioned these facts to show that there was no induce-
ment held out to men of ability and education to enter
the Church'there, and that to those who did enter it, the
means Of obtaining a good education was not furnished.
He thought, if the funds of St. David's College were en-
riched, it, would confer a most important benefit on the'
Established Church in that part of the country. The two!
richly,endowed universities, Oxford and Cambridge, re-
ceived 2,000/. annually from the. public funds ; and the!
colleges and universities of Scotland received annually;
7,080/. froni the same source ; and the Dublin Society;
in Ireland received 12,678/., -besides 1,500/. a year for
the ordinary purposes of education ; and last year the
London University received. 4-,548/. from this House.,
When sums were thus liberally expended in other quar-
ters,' he trusted that the case Of St. David's College
would betaken into consideration by the Government,
and he assured them that the cause of the great extent
to which Dissent mated in that part of the country had
been mainly owing to the want of sufficient provision
for the- clergy of the Established Church there, and to
the not affording them. the means of a liberal and en-
lightened education, which every 'clergyman of the
Church of England ought to have.
Dr. BOWLING said there was one item on which he;
would take the liberty of asking a question. 'The Noble!
Lord the Member. .for. Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) whenl
in office had pointed out the disadvantage of having ourl
digoinatic interests-dependent in a great measure upon
strangers, *lies were used as .intepreters by our,Minis-
nisters In eastern- countries,sand had shown the neces-1
sity of educating some :young: rrien.of this country in
the languages of the Eastjor. the purpose .of acting as
interpreters •in .negotiations. Bowring) there-
fore wanted to know whether there, were ; any young
menexercising public functions of 'that nature in COn-1
stantinople..? .... . • • - •• •
O.'CLERK said that the expenses of the embassy
at COnstantinaPle were neeeiSarilrinereased by having
an establishment of dragomans, and the inconvenience of
employing foreigners in that capacity had been very
strongly felt. .English subjects had in consequence been;
instructed for-some time back in the Turkish language,;
in order that,ilieYniigl4, when oppertunity offered, takei
the place of • those foreigners,- There could be no doubti
that solid advantages would' be derived from the em-1
plbyntent in.ihii.capacity.of persons having the interest
and feelings•of • this•-country at heart,' instead of mere'
employing • foreigners. :The
.system which had bee
referred to by the-Noble. Lord the•MeMber for Tivertont
was still Carried On: The Hens Member -for-Coventry!
hid alluded to the expense. . arising from foreign princesi
anil.foreigners of..distinction.onsthessoccasion of their
obtaining a passage• somesof her Majesty's ships.l
The sating of the sums included in. this ,item would be
very small, and. not worthy of. the consideration of thisi
country. With regard to thastamS. allowed for the eon-'
vey_ance of governors of sonnies, it, should be considered
that the eharges•for many years pasthad been anything!
but-extravagant::"' With reso4.to the charges for, cons'
veying out the colonial bishops,. the- expenses had heen;
very ainall, and as- the; salaries of those bishops were
alSo veryniall,he.thouglit'itcOuld-nOt be complained oft
that the-Government had•undertaken that charge upon
itself. As to the- charge for sending back the envoy.
froM the Igibiinraetiauuhsaniiturtheol:nentrtg):nvyleusicyeceni.:::,-.-41:ttitti.lir,pegff.raeotphuireer.was, that the envoy;
Seferffnieetscnid'swwhhihpi
jechhwwitthheer3emei
mbofroori
hhthaadet-i
useful allyiand wrthe envorw-as-accompanied by a very
large retinue; it would not have' been worthy of this
Government 'to allow him to go back at hiS own expense.;
The charge of 2001. for the Bishop of Chester was for{s
the purpose of enabling him to pay for four preachers in
his diocese.
Sir C. NAPIER said that the charge in some instances'
fciisthe removal of functionaries from one station to another'
was no mere in each .case than it would cost the fUnc-1
hciasrecouv,n,htertyhherouthsee toexp hisen
expense
wasn-
-1
htioounsaery;
btoutrehm"e
he
clidfr
only 1/. or I,ooot, the principle was the same.—(Hear.)rt
He saw some estimates for the expenses of the civil
service in China. He did not understand thoroughly.
the nature of the disagreements between Sir 11. Pottinger,
and Adniiral Parker, and he should like to have an ex-
planation from .the Right Hon. Gentleman Opposite.'
There was another point which he did 'not understand
—the expenses under the • head of civil and. militarY
service in the Levant.' ,' •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the estimate was for expenses incurred in 1841, and paid
in 1843. s
Sir C. NAPIER could not-see why the country should
be put to so much expense for the benefit' of those civil
officers. When an admiral was sent out he got an,
allowance of plate—that was to say some half-dozen old
silver epoons.--(A. laugh.) But lie• Was at once charged,
ten percent. upon the value of the plate, Which he was:
required to return; and Which he could procure from
any Jew (upon the same condition) for seven per cent.,
—(A laugh.) He thought that all ought to be placed.
Upon equal terms. When civil officers and governors;
were sent abroad, it would be better for the naval ser
vice and for the public purse if they Were sent out in the
Government Steam-packets; instead of sending upon
such a service a fine frigate, and, putting the captain to
great inconvenience •by compelling; him to give-up his.
- When ,Sir Robert Wilson was sent out to
Gibraltar, .as flne frigate of fifty guns wag em-
ployed to convey him, and was Occupied 'Aye or
six Months in. the -service; although 'the Government
had aftheindisposal Ili the time a magnificent steam-
ship upon the station, which would have carried him in
a few days, and had the most splendid accommodations
forth's! Goternor and -his suite. The accommodations
were' quite good enough for her Majesty—(A langh)••s-
and, in fact, her Majesty'had sailed in that very ship.—
(Hear, and a laugh.) He would take the sense of the
HOUse on this part of the estimates.—(llear.) .
'"Mr. 'HUME said that his Hon:-Friend had been mis-
.
'understood. He had not edmplained of the expenses of
the establishinerit for -the education 'and training of
dragomans at. Constantinople. lie had Only askeShoW
*may young men . there were under instruction, 'and
what progress' had been made. He wished an, explana-
tion respecting a sum of 600/.stated to have been paid for
.the expenses of Mr. APGregor in Norway, and in respect
to some negotiation's as to the Stade duties. It was pro-
raised last year that something should be done as to
these duties, and before' he proceeded with any further
remarks he would give the opportunity to the Govern-
ment-of stating any thing -in reference to, them they
might be enabled to do.
Lord STANLEY said, before the Hon. Member's
• . ••
question was answered, the' House, perhaps, would permit
him to give an explanation in. reference to the remarks
'of the Gallant Officer (Sir C. Napier) on the way its
which Sir -Robert 'Wilson had . been conveyed to Gib-
raltar. He (Lord Stanley) would take the liberty of
Stating that there was no class of persons who suffered
such great losses from the_ expenses necessary t 1 take
them to their destinations as Governors. in sending
'out Ministers a grant was made, but there was:none for
Governors, and nine-tenths of them were for: the first,
second, and sometimes for the third year, out of pocket
Tor moneys .they :were. compelled to raise to enable them
to accept and get out to their appointments.. There was
no outfit ; but there was a -certain fixed,rate •-for them-
selves and families--be the fainily large or be it small
s---according to the length of paisage, and each Governor
bad a- right to demand that sum Of money. It did so
-happen sometimes.that' a, ship' was' going out the very-.•
fix .C.‘NAPIII2---The lyarsplte was not going out
anywhere " Slier 'tslying...atstjt*S. And. Drat knot
' under orders. *

Lord F+ItIQR-saitck that Major Palmer was an, old and
distinguished. officer.. He bad held his office for twenty-
three yeOrS,, and nitr complaint had ever been made
against him Ide would be entitled to no retiring
allowance,i-and the Government thought. that the" loss
of. the office, the duties of, which be had, neglepted,- was
sufficient punishment for that neglect, without making
hiM destitute-by depriving him of that office-the duties
of which .he hail satisfactorily discharged. -
Mr. EWART ,asited if it was Elio, intention' of . the
Government to bring in a Bill for the regulation of
charities; during the present session, and if_ it was likely
that any- digest of the: criminal law:, founded on the
report of :Mr. Justice Wightman, Mr.: Sergeant Starkie,
and other eminent lawyers, was likely to be brought
forward:- .
Sir li.:-PEEL said that with regard to the first point
his Right: Hon. Friend the Secretary' of State for the
Heine Departpent had lieen :in communication with the
Lord Chancellor on the subject of introducing a Bill.
Mr. HUME'. complained of the. feesrto Attorneys and
Solicitor:Generals. He tin-dorsi* that tome of these
officers-had -received: the enorinouS sum of '18,0604
a-year. Now 5;0001._ aryear• would buy the best At-
torney-General that ever stood in Westminster-hall.
Mr.. BARING had been always very, hostile to fees,
but a Commission '-appitited by that Rouse had recom-
mended the systeni of fees to these officers. "He thought
a substitution of salaries for these fees would be very
advantageoui to the publia.
Sir R. PEEL expressed himself to a similar effect.
Coldnel SIBTHORP --Wished to know what • salary
was paid to Mr. Bulwer as ambassador. to MOdrick'' He
(Colonel Sibthorp),was surprised that the Government
shoUld have selected a persbn Opposed to them in
polities for this important situation. '
Sir R. PEEL said he must decline answering 'the
question, Mr. Itulwer was.a highl,y talented gentleinan,
and every way calculated for the situation in which -he
had geed placed: • He (Sir 'R. Peel) did not think it was
the duty of the Goveinnient 'to look to party in making
such. appointments aS. these,-. but rather to the:capabili-
ties of the , person to be appointed. It was upon these
considerations that Mr. -Bulwer had been appointed, and
he was sure that no one could object to the appointment
on the ground of incapacity in the person appointed.; • '
The vote was then agreed to.
The sum of 112,1901. was then, proposed to defray the
the expenses Of public buildings, &C. • f.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS Oected to the vote. He found
that tho average sum-vote for-this purpose for the last
five. years,..was.l2o,ooo/. .Thewhole.suns voted for the
whole five years, was 686,0001. for the expensei of
public parks, palaces, &c. He. thought the Right Hon.
Baronet opposite Would agree • with him that proper
economy had not been observed,' as this large sum had
increased year after year.
Lord LINCOLN said, it was not until lately that. his
attention had teen draWn to the subject of the parks.
He was surprised that the -Hon. Gentleman could have
found fault with the expenditure upon the royal parks,
as they were entirely appropriated to the public accom-
modation. So far from the expense of the Parks being
on the increase, there was at present a decrease. It was
true; that In some' of the metropolitan parks, the ex-
penses had been increased owing to- the greater number
of persons who latterly visited them. Hampton Court
had been occupied by some Members of the aristo-
cracy,
,but still he thought that it would be wrong
if the Crown had not the power of . appropriating
apartments to those persons, and the connections of
those persons, who had rendered eminent services to the
country, and who might be destitute of house and home.
But at the same time it should be remembered that in
this building there was a large suite of rooms, which were
solely appropriated to the public.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER said a large sum of money
would be likely to be expended upon removing the
buildings in St. James's Park on the side of St. James's-
street. - •
Dr. BOWRING complained of the item of 300/, being
expended upon a Government building in the Isle of
Wight: He thought they ought to be allowed to manage
their own financial affairs, and then they would be wil-
ling to pay such expenses as those new sought to be in-
cluded in the estimates. -
In reply to, a question from Mr. EWART, :
Lord LINCOLN said that the proposed improvements
in thelocality between the Regent's-park and Primrose-
bill had been retarded in consequence of the negotiations
pending with Eton College.
Mr. HUME objected to this mode of passing
.all,the
estimates for public parks and mansions in one vote.
He did not Wish at this late hour to oppose the vote, but
he thought the Government- ought to allow the House
to. have the separate expenses of each establishment -for
the previous year laid before it.
After a few words froni Captain PECHELL, the vote
was agreed to.
Mr. BROTHERTON then moved.that the Chairman
report progress.
Sir G. CLERK said that the next vote was only for
the• expenses .of the temporary Houses of Parliament.
BROTHERTON gave way.
Sir G: CLERIC then moved, for a grant of 5,4001.
for the expenses of the temporary Houses.
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote was 60,0001. for the Houses of Parlia-
ment. In answer to a question upon this vote,
The Earl of LINCOLN said the naw House of Lords
could be fitted up temporarily for the next session if ab-
solutely required, but he thought it would .be in such a
state as to cause great prejudice to health,. and therefore
he hoped their Lordships would -see fit to alter their
wishes. Both the Houses could:be made 'comfortable by
the session following—that of 1846.
The vote was then agreed to. . .
The next and last vote was 7,0001. for Trafalgar-
Site-Ore; Whieh being agreed to the Chairman reported
progress and asked- leave to sit again. •
COUNTY. COURTS (LANCASTER.)

The House having resumed,
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET obtained leave to
bring in two Bills ; one to amend the jurisdiction of the
County Court of the County Palatine of Lancaster; and
the other to alter and' amend the jurisdiction of the
-Chancery Court of the same Court.
ATMOSPHERIC RAILWAYS.

Mr. SHAW moved for a Select Committee to inquire
into the merits and importance of atmospheric railways.
—(Much amusement was caused by the President of
the Board of Trade, in whose department the appli-
cation came, being in a sound sleep, on the cross
bench behind the Speaker's chair. Having been aroused
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Hon. Gentle-
man proceeded to his place, amid the laughter of the
Hon. Members present.) Mr. Shaw then proceeded to
state that at that hour of the night he would not go into
the question ; he would merely say that he would follow
any course the Right Hon. Gentleman might suggest as
the most desirable. • - •
Mr. GLADSTONE said he should suggest, as• most
advisable, that the Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man should postpone his motion till after Easter.
The Honourable Gentleman must. ,be aware of the
difficulty that attended any proposition for . a Select
Committee to inquire into the success of scientific expe-
riments; •it might lead to many similar propositions.
There could be no doubt that, on the small scale on
which it had been tried,,the experiment had succeeded ;
the question was whether it would succeed if tried on a
more extensive scale. lie had another objection to the
motion, Which was this. The Hon. Gentleman asked
-for an inquiry into the importance of the experiments on
this railway ; he (Mrs Gladstone) thought that, they had
already got to that point, and he doubted if, he would
get further by having the Select Committee he asked
for, He did not propose to inquire into any particular
plan, but into the importance of the atmospheric prin-
ciple, which he believed-was generally admitted. Who
were the persons most interested in this plan ? The
proprietors of railways—the possessors of_vast masses of
-capital, and who had the best means of investigatingthe
plan for themselves: The House could better ascertain
the merit of the system if these parties were before it,
which at present was not the case.
Lord H. VANE said that as this was a matter of na-
tional importance, it was right that the session should
not be allowed to elapse till the House had made a
practical inquiry into the principle. He therefore hoped
that the House would consent to the motion of the Right
-Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. SHAW said that at 'this moment when there
were many important railways in contemplation, he was
most anxious to have the principle of atmospheric rail-
ways tried in this conntry. If the question was not
decided this session it-would be too late, but as the
Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to 'think it would be
better te..withdraw..the motion, till after Easter, lie had
no objection to tie so..
The motion:was then withdrawn.
CHARITABLE PAWN SO -

On the motiorrOf Mr. CO IV PER,- leave was given to
bring in'n*Biltfor the establishment of Charitable Pawn
SoeietieS.:
• • ••
IRISH TEMPORALITIES.
Ur. T FRENC4 moved for, leave qbriug in a Bill
.to ;amend the laws relating to Temporalities .of the
Church in Ireland. Ire would _not ask for .more than
leave to have the Bill printed: -If the _Government had
any objeetion to it, he would.not proceed further with it.
Lord ELIOT -said he • would • not .giVe• any opiniOn
on the stihject, but he would not oppose, the introduction
of the,rneasure: • •
MreSIIAW said he did not think that' there was any
chapee of the passing. lt.. was opposed by the
heads of,the Church -.in Ireland,..and be regretted, that
the. 'Government. gave, leave toliaveE i t introduced;
Leave was then' given to brink in the Bill.
- • - • COMMITTEE- ON ELECTIONS.
Sir It. PEEL moved—That Sir Thomas Fremantle
-be .'diebarged from further attendance on the Contra-
Terted Elections Committee ; that LOrd. Ashley be added
to -the said Committee. The Noble Lord was chairman
of the chairman's panel, and had been included in his
original dratight of the Committee. The name of his
Noble Friend had, only, been omitted through inadver-
tence, and he considered.it very important that the Ginn-
-mittee, should have the advantage of his Noble Friend's
services.-
'Mn. TIAWES admitted the necessity of- having the
Noble Lord on the Committee, but • considered that the
Committee ought not to be deprived of the- services' of
Sir Thomas Fiematitle. Ile would suggest to the Right
Baronet the propriety of movingthat:Lord Ashley
should be added to the Committee. - •
The ‘SPEAKER said that the motion . could not be
made without notice. -
Sir H. PEEL.trusted the Housed. recollect that
It was on the suggestion of the lion. Gentleman that he
acted, although at the same tune he admitted. that it was
the course most consonant to his- own feelings. lie
would therefore',withdraw, his motion, and. givenotice
that he should this day (Tuesday) move that the name
of Lord Ashley be added to the Committee. •
The other Orders 'of the DayL were
then dispoSed of,
and the House adiourned at' One o'Clock. .

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few days ago.