The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-16 00:00:00

wisteria! benches.) He. should state a few facts in support of '
this assertion.—( Renewed -Cries of " Question.") He would
state these facts, and although he should not publicly mention
the names of those parties, yet he shOuld give theta in private
to any Hon. Gentleman. ' If all the'statements of. the Noble
Lord were true, they would justify any course Of legislation ;
but he denied their truth. He had a letter - from Bolton from
one manufacturer, .which proved that the Proportion of females
in his mill was in the ratio of 131 men to 59 females, and that
after the age. of . 21, the greater number of fe-
f males went home to attend to their domestie duties:
In the Whole of that establishnient there were not three mar-
ried Women employed, though seven or eight hundred persons
were engaged in it. He had another case of an establishment
about ten miles north of where he lived, and the same results
were observable there. It employed 342 hands, at average
wages of 9s, 61/2d. per week ; there were 32 cottages on the
place, each having six inmates, the average income of each
family being 11. 13s. a week. None -of the. heads- of
these families had ever received any parish relief, except in
the case of one widow who was injured by the burning of themill.
In the county of Dorset, the Noble Lord must know that one-
eighth of the whole population—not of the labouring classes
only—but of the aristocracy, the clergy, the bankers, the
traders-.-one-eighth of the whole population had' been in the
receipt -of parochial relief—of the labourers one-sixth bad
been relieved by the parish. In the case of another establish-
ment, the avenge weekly, earnings of each family were 455. a
week, and the annual average income of the 154 families em-
ployed in it was 1171. 7s. 9d. The Hon. Member for Man-
chester had said that those who had migrated from the
agricultural districts to the manufacturing,- had had no
reason to repent their change. He would state one case,
and if the Miinhers for Suffolk were present he would: advise
them, when, they.next, met their constituents, to explain it to
them. The man was an agricultural labourer in Suffolk,- earn-
ing himielf. as. per week ;" his eldest son, 2s. a week ; and
the next; a boy .of about twelve 'years of age, Is. a Week.; he
Ind ten children and a wife; they had from the parish an al.
lowance of a peck of flour per week, value Is. 4d., mak-
ing 12s. 4d. per week for the. whole family. That family
had increased since he went into Lancashire by one ; he had
now eleien childrep, and was earning 555. a week, or ss. a-head
for the fiMily. -There-was another case of a man who came from
Buckinghamshire, who afterwards went back to see his friends,
but on being asked how he should like to return altogether,
said the people in Buckinghamshire worked so hard, and lived
so badly, he infinitely preferred remaining where he was. He
thought he had said enough—(lronical cheers from the Tory
benches)-apparently two much-(Renewed cheers)—for
Hon. Members who were anxious to hear only one side of this
important case, and many of whom ,had. not heard even that.
—( Cheers.) He admitted that, notwithstanding all this, there
were great evils in these districts ; many persons were still out
of employment, and the fluctuations of trade produced great
calamities there. ' It was for the House to consider
whether it was not implicated in some measures that
might have produced those fluctuations. He was notohout to
charge the Noble Lord with, anything lie 'might wish to repel.
He admitted, from his speech to-night, that. he had no right
to suppose but that the Noble Lord was perfectly honest in the
view he took of the manufacturing districts. But he must say
he thought the Noble Lord, in looking at the manufacturing
districts, turned his telescope the right way, and brought. all
the evils near, and. made them. very distinct, But when he
looked to the agricultural district he came from, he turned the
telescope the other way—all the evils were thrown to a'dis-
tanee, and brought down to the smallest dimensionS. He (Mr.
Bright) believed that the amendnient that had taken place in
the manufacturing'districts of the north of England, since the
time when 4he respected father of the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head- of the Government was engaged in the mannfic-
Curing business, had not beer, the consequeoce of any legislative
interference, het' had been caused by the growing intelligence
of the public mind. If they looked at schools, lunatic asylums,
or other establishments, they would find that the inmates were ,
better treated now, and with more humanity, than they were
in the time of their fathers. From this arose the improve-
ments which took place in the manufacturing districts of the
north of England. He did not charge the Noble Lord with
any malice towards the manufacturers. He did not conceive
that the Noble Lord could have any inducement to harbour
'such a feeling; but he 'believed. the Noble Lord was as com-
pletely deluded by the persons. he was connected with as he
possibly could be. lie would not obtain much credit from the
manufacturers of Lancaihire till he had obtained his informa-
tion from more respectable and trustworthy persons
than those whom he had employed. He (Mr..
Bright) well knew the characters from whom
his information was obtained. There were two books dedicated
to the Noble Lord, one was " A Description of the Expen-
ences and Sufferings of William Dodd, once a Factory La-
bourer; .and now a Poor Cripple ;" the other was called
" Facto 'lllustrative of the Factory System," in letters to the
Noble Lord by the raid William Dodd.: He would not enter
into his statements. It was not necessary for him to do so, for a
very large proportion of his statements was utterly false, and
the rest were grossly and malignantly exaggerated. ' He says
that " at the age of 32 he was done up." That was the phrase.
The fact was that he was compelled to leave the factory On
account of his gross immorality. He (Mr.-Bright) had in
his pocket a letter from this person, in which he stated that
the Noble Lord used him as long as he could get anything out
of him, and then cast him off' when no further use could be
made of him. -He also stated that the Noble Lord gave him
dinners at his ,own house; and showed him to his visitors as the
crippled factory man ; and that, when he wrote to the Noble
Lord for the balance of an account, the Noble Lord replied by
reminding him of the many dinners he gave him, and of the
usage he gave him as an object of charity.--( Loud cries of
" Oh.") He (Mr. Bright) believed the Noble Lord was
perfectly honest, but he ought to take care to obtain his in-
formation from a more respectable and trustworthy quarter.
He would not go farther into the subject.—(Cries of "Hear,
hear" from the Ministerial benches.) There were 1,600,000
inhabitants in Lancashire, '900,000 of whom were employed.
—(Hear, hear.)
.This was more than could be said of any
district of equal extent in the world.—(Hear, hear.) He
admitted that the hours of working, for men, women, and chil-
dren' were • longer than was de,irable. . But this need
not have been so had not the wealth, of the country
been so unfairly distributed, and the people so much burdened
with taxation imposed on them by the party opposite.
This fell heavieit on those who were connected with trade.
From 50 to 100 per cent. of the'value was imposed on the im-
portation of raw cotton. The firm with which he was
.con-
gested paid 75 per cent. and five-sixths of the quantity im-
ported was re-exported without a drawback.-4 Hear, hear.)
He had paid'l,ooo/. upon the bricks which forthed his factOry,
While there was no duty on those used, for agricultural pur-
poses.--(Hear,bear. )They took away a portion of the bread,
and put their band into the sugar basin, of every poor man.---!
(Cries of. " Oh; oh," and " Hear, hear.") Under theie
circumstances, it was no wonder that there should be an ex-
eessiie competition, when the people fought for' their
very existence.—(Heai, heir.) He had heard the Right
Hon. Baronet, a few sessions ago, when he sat on this side of.
the House,- and was hungering for the opposite side, deliver a
peroration which was the most disgraceful he had ever heard.
—( Loud cries of b-'oh, oh," " Order, order," and :" Chair;
chair.") If the Right Hon. Baronet believed what he said he
was' no doubt right in speaking as-he had done, but, contrasted
with what ' he had - said that night with respect
to the manufacturing . districts, no two things could
possibly. be uttered which were more opposite in their
tendencies. The Government might pass or reject.that clauie
for ten hours as they choie. He hoped they would give holi-
days to the operatives so as that their health might not suffer-;
but now, when, the manufacturing interests were only just re-
Covering from the:effects of the distress under which they werelately. labouring, if they Passed that measure, theymight be as-
sured that the next session. of Parliament . would not pass over
without their being called upon to repealit. He should vote
for the Sill as it was originally introduced.

Lord ASHLEY thought fie had some right to make a few
observations on-the speech of the' Hon, Gentleman who had
just sat down:, . The charge which the Hon. Gentleman had
insinuated: against hirocilled for some observation. He (Lord
Ashley.) threw himself upon the indulgence and protection of
the House, and he requested all the gentleman he saw around
him to exercise their influence in making the Hon. Member
for-Durham pursue his charge and state his case.—( Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.) . , • ,
Mr. BRIGHT- asked *hit wits: the charge • the Noble Lord
meant?—(Cries of " Oh, oh.!!) He,had told the Noble Lord
the instruments with which he carried on his operations in Lan-
cashire were not worthy of his Canie*ner of hiM. He had
told the Noble Lord,* that he believed he had been misled by
that Man,-and he was prepared to prove that those gentlemen
were of a charadter whose evidence he would not take withie-
spect to agriculture, and the Noble Lord ought not to take it
with respect to manufactures.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," mingled
with cheers and expressions of disapprobation.)
Lord ASHLEY—No charge I NO charge of nnpaid ba-
lances . No wilfully vremeditated parade of Cripples !' If the
Hon. Member said he had made no charge—if before the
assembled Commons of "England, he was prepared to assert
that he made no charge, then .he (Lord Ashley) . could
assure the Hon. Gentlelnan, -with infinite satisfaction, that
that he would let thii matter rest where it was. Those'
who heard the-Hon. Gentliniari Could best understand whether
a charge had been made—those who heard the Hon. Gentle-
iiitrcould best tell whether that charge had been maintained.,
—(Ministerial cheers.) But now he would appeal to the House.
Had he (Lord Ashley), in the course of the long speech that
the House had indulged him in hearing from him—had he said
any one thing calcUlated to cause personal ill-feeling, or, uttered
one sentence that could exaspeiate a single individual, or thrown
into the discussion of this great matter a sentiment or expression
that ought not to be found in. treating of so sacred a subject?
If the Hon. Gentleman thought that that was the way in -which
he could maintain his -own cause, he (Lord Ashley) must say
he was grieved for it, because he thought it was not suited to
the dignity of the assembly in which they sat, nor, suited to
the dignity of the honourable Society to which the Hon. Gen-
tleman belonged.—(lronical cheers.)

_ .
Mr. BRIGHT said the Noble Lord was entirely mistaken if
he supposed that he (Mr.
~Bright) should judge of the Noble
Lord's character by the man whom he told .him not to trust.
Now he did tell tbe'Noble Lord plainly, that letters from that
individual, stating what he (Mr. Bright) had stated, were now
in his hs.nd.--(Cnet of "Read, read.") He would hand 'the
letters with 'pleasure to the Noble Lord.—(Cries of "Read,"
and considerable confusion). And further he would
tell the Noble Lord that that individual had
offered for a sum of money to an intimate
friend of his (Mr. Bright) a large number of other letters,
which that friend of his was too fastidious to lay hold of ;
and he further told the Noble Lord not to have anything more
to do with. that man. lie acknowledged that the Noble Lord
had honest convictions upon the question; but be repeated,
that the instrument with which he worked was not worthy of
him or his real benevolence.—( Cries of " Read," " Hear, hear,"
and considerable confusion, during which the - Honour-
able Gentlenian in vain endeavOured to get a hearing.) The
writer of the letter proceeded:, to state, that having strained
-at a gnat he would not swallow a camel._(Laughter): Hehad
never received the wages to which he was entitled. He bad
been instructed to go down to .Turton, and to get what
'evidence he could. .At his own expense 13e treated
'the people with beer, and, in his , necessity, he was
compelled to write to Lord Ashley to request a remittance.—
(Laughter. ), Mind
,(said Mr. Bright), I do_ not believe one
word of this man's statement.—(Cheers and laughter.) Dodd
went onto say that he received a vary angry letter from Lord
Ashley. (Cheers and laughter.) He (Dodd) had
been made a fool of by the party; but, if he were
at liberty, "he could a tale unfold."—( Great laughter.)
He (Mr. Bright)'never spoke of the Noble Lord but in terms
of respect, and_with a full acknowledgment of the benevolence
of his motives.—(ob, ob, and cheers.) He believed that the
Noble. Lord wished as he wished, that all information upon this
subject should be derived from persons who could be relied on.
•--( Hear, hear.) He stated these facia for the purpose of giving
the Noble Lord an opportunity of rebutting the statements.
Lord ASHLEY said it was perfectly true, that he had re-
ceived letters from the person referred to. But that person
had never dined at. his table.—(Laughter.) He had come to
his house, and was perhaps received with hospitality—but it
was by , the servants.--( Hear, and laughter.) He agreed.
however, with the lion. Member that Dodd was a person upon
whom no reliance could be placed.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARBURTON (who rose amidst loud cries of " Ad-
journ") said that he thought the matter was too important to
be disposed of at that hour, and he should, therefore, move that
the Chairman should report progress and ask leave to sit again.
The motion Was carried without opposition and the House
resumed. • '

In reply to a question from Captain PECHELL,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he would bring on the New
Poor-law on Friday nest.
TllO House then adjourned f t One o'clock.