The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-23 00:00:00

ticipated; and, for his own part, he should give the
measure every support in his power.
Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE, in reply to the ob-
servation of the Hon. and Learned Member for the Uni-
versity of Dublin, believed that the present was a fitting
time to bring forward such a measure, when the public
mind was somewhat pacified in Ireland. Had they done
so in times of agitation it would be said they yielded to
clamour, and he entirely agreed with the Hon. Member
for the borough of Carlow, that the system of refusing
leases to tenantry lest they should possess the franchise,
was the great cause of the want of agricultural improve-
ment. The present Bill proposed that the franchise
should be entirely severed from anything like a lease,
which he believed would lead to the most important
consequences. With regard to the observations made
by the Honourable Member for the county of Limerick
as to the present evil of allowing boards of guardians
to make valuations of land, he believed that
would be remedied when the General Valuation Act
came into operation, which ho hoped would soon take
place. As to the question put to him by his Noble
Friend Lord Castlereagh, whether any papers would be
laid on the table which would give an idea of the num-
ber of voters to be created by the present Bill, he could
only refer him to the paper from which the Hon. and
Learned Member for Athlone read an extract, and
which, he k elieved, gave a very accurate account of the
number. He hoped they would discuss it calmly and
dispassionately, and as it was of the utmost consequence
to proceed with the measure at once, he should fix Mon-
day next for going into Committee.
Mr. NAPIER observed that a great number of gen•
tlemen would proceed to Ireland during the next week
to attend the assizes, and it would be well, therefore, to
postpone the measure until their return.
Lord J. RUSSELL could not consent to postpone the
Bill, and it would, therefore, be proceeded with on the
day named by his Right Hon. Friend.
ELECTIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of the Elections
(Ireland) Bill,
Mr. REYNOLDS objected to the clause which pro-
vided that a booth should be erected for every 300 voters,
as involving unnecessary expense on the candidates, and
also to that which directed separate booths to be erected
for the accommodation of freemen. Those men were
not at all of the class represented by his Honourable
Colleague. There were no doubt exceptions; as for ex-
ample, his Grace the Duke of Wellington was a freeman
of the city of Dublin, but not living within seven miles
of the city, he could not vote. He denied the allega-
tions made by his Honourable Colleague, that he (Mr.
Reynolds) neglected his duty as Lord Mayor in not re-
gistering freemen. He gave notice, in conclusion, that
he should in Committee propose amendments to those
clauses to which he called the attention of his Right
Hon. Friend.
• After a few words from Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, the
Bill was read a second time, and ordered to bo committed
on Monday.
The Estates Leasing (Ireland) Bill and the Judgments
(Ireland) Bill were postponed.
The Commons Enclosure Bill was read a second time,
and ordered to be committed on Monday.
Mr. BROTHERTON, in the absence of Mr. Ewart,
moved for a return of all crimes for which the punish-
ment of death is still retained by the law of Scotland;
showing also in what corresponding cases it has been re-
pealed by the law of England.—Agreed to.
WOODS AND FORESTS.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then moved for leave to
bring in a " Bill to make better Provision for the Ma •
nagement of the Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues of
the Crown, and for the Direction of Public Works and
Buildings." The Noble Lord stated that he did not in-
tend, in the absence of his Noble Friend who had been
Chairman of the Committee on the subject, to enter into
any long explanation of the nature of the Bill which he
intended to introduce, neither did he intend to propose
to enter into the reasons which had led her Majesty's
Government to think it necessary to introduce a mea-
sure on the subject ; but he would merely state the
general reasons which had induced them to think that
the different departments might be better managed by
the separation which it was his intention to propose.
Until the year 1832 there were different offices con
netted with these public departments—the management
of the land revenues of the Crown, the woods and
forests, and a surveyor-general of public works. It
was at that period felt expedient to unite these depart-
ments ; but experience had since shown that the com-
bination of these two offices had led to the
imposition of very large and undue charges upon the land
revenues of the Crown for purposes of public works.
What the Government now proposed was, in the first
place, to have three Commissioners, who were to receive
salaries, and who should have the management of the
land revenues of the Crown and the Woods and Forests,
none of whom should be capable of sitting in the House.
With respect to the office of works, it was proposed that
there should be a political officer attached to it, viz., the
First Commissioner of Works, and that office might be
held together with a seat in Parliament. An officer of
that description, responsible and holding a seat in the
House, would be enabled to have a general control over
any public works which might be undertaken, and which
in late years had occasioned very considerable expense,
and which were certainly deserving of being made spe-
cial subjects for the attention of the Minister of the
Crown. By this proposed separation they would get rid
of that which he thought was a great evil, viz., that
when large expenses were to be incurred for some pub-
lic purpose, the manner in which the sums to be raised
for the purpose were provided was by making charges
upon the land revenues of the Crown; whereas, the ob-
jects being of a public, character—being either for some
publiC park or for the improvement of the streets of the
metropolis, or improvements in Dublin and Edin-
burgh—the expenses should have been charged rather
to the general revenue of the country; and
there was no saving whatever to the public by
making the charge in this manner on the land revenues
of the Crown, because, whether they received some
30,0001. or 40,000/. less from the land revenues, or whe-
ther they received the whole amount of the land reve-
nues without deduction of that 30,000/. or 40,0001., but
afterwards to spend that amount, it would evidently be
the same thing to the public in point of charge. But
upon the other hand, that arrangement had certainly
tended to keep from public view the large expenses
which were incurred, 'and the propriety of incurring
such large expenses for public objects. For the future,
therefore, it was proposed that the land revenue should
be managed as a department of the public revenue. The
persons employed in that office would have t,) consider
how best to manage the rents and receipts which they
would receive from the property which was leasehold,
and also what would be the best system of management
of the woods and forests, and would have nothing what-
ever to do with the consideration of expenses, except
such as any owner of property would think necessary
for the preservation and improvement of the property.
Upon the other hand, the duties of the political officer
would be to consider what sums it was necessary to
apply to public works, which it might be necessary
either to begin or carry on, and to decide in what man-
ner the parks which were used for public recrea-
tion, Hampton Court and the other new parks which
had been made, should be kept in order and
ornamented in the manner which was required for
public recreation, and any further expense which from
time to time the Government would think fit to apply
f or which the House should think right to adopt.
With respect to the salaries of the principal officers, the
whole sum would be the same as that now applied to
the purpose. At present the salary of the First CUM..
missioner was 2,000/. a year, and two other Commis-
sioners with 1,2001. a year. What they now proposed
was, that the duties of the Commissioners of Laud Re-
venue should be performed by three persons, two only
of whom would have salaries; the First Commissioner

1,4001. per annum, the second 1,0001. per annum, and the
third would be some person in the public service who
would not receive any salary. And the Commission of
Public Works would also be formed of three persons,
but only one of whom would receive any salary, which
would be 2,0001. per annum, being the amount now paid
to the First Commissioner of Woods and Forests, and
which was usually given for offices of that description.
There would, theref )re, be no increase of salary, nor of
persons who would be able to have seats in the House in
connexion with offices of profit. He believed the effect
of the Bill would for the future be found to be, that so
far from increasing the expense, it would be the means
of bringing the expense within proper bounds; and there
were certainly some expenses which belonged to those
offices which had never yet been properly regulated, and
which might, under the direction of the Treasury, re-
ceive such regulations as would make them less expen-
sive to the country. The Noble Lord concluded by
moving for leave to bring in the Bill.
Mr. CARDWELL said that, as the Noble Lord did
not mean to take a discussion at that stage, he would

simply state, as a member of the Committee appointed
to inquire into tho subject, that he was glad to find the
Government had taken up the question. He entirely
agreed with the Noble Lord that there was no depart-
ment of the public service which more required revision
and reform. The evidence taken by the Committee had
disclosed errors of management and frauds upon the
public property of every imaginable description. The
evil was not referable to any particular Government, or
to any particular Commission; they were the inevitable
result of the system itself and eould only be removed by
a revision of the office. He had no doubt that the Go-
vernment had carefully considered the details, and that
they would be found adequate to the object in view; and
he should have much pleasure in supporting a measure
that would effect so necessary a reform.
After a few words from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY and Lord
J. MANNERS,
Leave was given to bring in the Bill, which was after-
wards brought up and read a first time.
Sir W. SOMERVILL obtained leave to bring in a
Bill to prohibit, in Ireland, the payment, in certain cases,
of wages in goods, or otherwise than in the 'current coin
of the realm.

On the motion of Sir GEORGE GREY, the follow-
in Select Committee was nominated on Prison Disci-
p line:—Sir George Grey, Mr. Edmund Denison, Mr.
Pearson, Sir Henry Halford, Mr. Sotheron, Mr. Alder-
Ruin Sidney, Mr. Banker, Captain Pelham, Mr. Peto,
Vitmount Mahan, Sir Edward Buxton, Mr. Robert
PaLmer, Sir Jam Pakington, Mr. Armstrong, and Mr.
Sir W. VERNER moved for a return of all National
Schools in Ireinind which have been erec:ed, or to which
the Contnissioaers have contributed assistance towards
the fitting V. of the schools, adjoining to or within the
precinots of Roman Catholic Chapels, Nunneries, or Mo-
nastic Instittrtions of any kind, from the 30th day of
April, 1843, to the 31st day of Decerolv,r, 1849 (in eon-
tinutsti On of :Parliamentary Paper, No. 520, of Session,
1843.). —Agrised to.
The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned eta Quarter to Ten o'clock.

WRY AZ iD ENNISKILLEN RAILWAYo•OperatiOnS
ba•ve been renewed with spirit under Mr. Dargan. The
line will be eq,mpleted to Portadown about twelve
;49145 home.