The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-18 00:00:00

and were strong out of doors. The Bill would be fore-
doomed. The cry of national redemption would go
forth to-night; for the people of Ireland would see that
this was not a mere attempt to remove the Lord-Lieu-
tenant, but it was a eombined attempt to crush all na-
tional feeling and independent spirit in that country:
Sir R. PEEL explained that he had no desire to in-
terfere with the Irish bar, the Attorney or Solicitor-
General, or the members of the Irish judicial bench, and
any observations on that topic lest the question quite
untouched.

Mr. NAPIER said ho had to oppose the second read-
,ng of this Bill, and that it was not without much and

anxious consideration that he had arrived at the conclu-
sion that it was his duty to do so. Having farmed the
opinion that this Bill ought not to pass, he felt bound to
state to the House the reasons which had influenced him
to come to that conclusion, The Noble Lerd said there

ought to be one administration for the two kingdoms.
He concurred in that sentiment, and if this Bill effected

:hat object he would not oppose it, but it did no such
.hing. Instead of establishing a single administration

'or the two countries, on theContraryjit preserved a se-

parato administration, If they could not get rid of the
abuses that grew up under the present system without
dispensing with the Lord-Lieutenant, he would at once

Meld tbaoffipe. The Noble Lord said he would not inter-

'ere with the judicial authorities, and he had no suspicion
hat he would do so. Then they left the judges, the corn-

mender of the forces, and a roial reideneo—, so that they
left many separate institutions, notwithstanding that
the object of this Bill was professed to effect a single

tichniniitration for both countries. The advantages

stated to be derived from this Bill were of two classes.

First, the facility of communication with the British
Cabinet, which was to be effected by the appointment of
. .

a Secretary for Ireland. The grosa difficulty with re-
gard to Irish affairs was, to ascertain the real state of
the fact in any c mtrovertcd case. Now, was this likely

to bo effected by an officer residing in London? , The
could never have such means of arriving at the truth by
an officer in this country as by one upon the spot. Ano-
ther disadvantage which would arise from this Bill would

be, the conferences between the Executive and the law
officers of the Crown in Ireland, which alone would give
the necessary advice and information to guide them.
Before they adopted this Bill they ought to be assured
that Ireland was in possession of the local means of eata-

blishing a firm executive power in that country. Much
had been said of the party spirit that prevailed in Ire-
land, as if there was none in this country. For his

parr, he should b 3 sorry to see party spirit destroyed.
It ,was the price they had to pay for free institu-
tions. What they should correct was the abuse of it.

It was said that by this Bill the executive secretary
would be brought more under Parliamentary control.
That object might be attained, but it was not quite
so clear that Parliament always understood the affairs
of Ireland, that they. could implicitly re►y upon its legis-
lation without the information they could obtain from
parties in Ireland competent to afford it. What they
mainly required for Ireland was security for life and pro-
perty, which could only be effected by a firm and ♦igor-
ous executive. He would ask, was this a time to try
an experiment which would hold out speculative advan-
tages, and entail certain evils. What was their physical
condition? Look at the depressed state of Dublin. The
metropolis was in a state of poverty gene-
rally. Look through the country generally. Were
nut the gentry crushed? Had the people generally the
means of existence? Was this a time to try those ex-
periments?—(Hear, hear.) He had a heart for the feel-
ings of others, and many of them might have feelings of
irritation and insult at being dealt with in this way. He
implored them not to break up the executive system.
They should begin a new policy, and bring the people up
out of their low condition. Then they might carry out
what they called the purity of their views. With regard
to the present Lord-Lieutenant, although he could not
concur in the whole of his policy, he had
found him kind, courteous, and conciliatory; and he
had never made a suggestion which was not attended
to. He believed that Noble Lord capable, if supplied
ith right policy and controlled by the instructions of
a right and capable Cabinet, of governing effectually
and well any country in the world.—(Loud cheers.)
-Mr. SADLEIR said they had heard three long
speeches that evening; but most of the objections urged
against the measure were objections of detail, rather
than against its principle. He was happy to say that
the opponents of the Bill in that House were few.—(No,
no.) He maintained that they were but few compared
with the gross number of the Irish Members. He con-
tended that there were very powerful and convincing
arguments that might be urged in favour of the measure
proposed by the Noble Lord. For the last half a cen-
tury only two Irishmen had filled the office of Irish
Viceroy. A system was in progress by which the an-
cient nobility of Ireland was becoming gradually extinct.
No Member of the Commons was qualified to fill that
office, which had been described as one of such im-
portance. He did not think the trade, and commerce,
and commercial prospects of a great metropolis like the
city of Dublin depended upon the continuance of such a
system as the Irish Viceregal Court. But, looking
upon the question in a Parliamentary point of view,
he would ask the representatives of Ireland
whether or not they were satisfied with the system

upon which the Cabinets of this country were
constructed? Did they think local wants and feelings
were represented in that system? Then, again, since
the union of the two countries, no Viceroy in Ireland
had the power to do mischief ' - and now he had as little
power to do good. He had always opposed the Repeal
agitation, but he would never rest satisfied until he saw
the business of the United Kingdom conducted in such a
manner as to confer upon every portion of the empire
equal and impartial justice. If the Ministry of the day
wanted a political agent in Ireland they might have one
at a less expense than that furnished by the viceregal
system of that country. Ever since the time of Spenser
it had been admitted us a great evil in: the Government
of Ireland that the Viceroys should be so often changed.
They had seen magistrates advocating a repeal of the
union deprived of' the commission of the peace by one
Lord-Lieutenant and re-instated by another.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Member concluded by announcing his
intention of supporting the second reading of the present
Bill as the first step towards a large and comprehensive
system of legislation for Ireland.—(Hear, bear.)
Mr. MOORE confessed he had never heard a more
inconsequent speech than that of the Hon. Member who
spoke last. He had complained that Irishmen were not
appointed to the office of Lord-Lieutenant, yet the
remedy he had promised was to make the office English
altogether. •He confessed he bad great difficulty in
coming to any conclusion upon the present important
question, but while he agreed with tile Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Buckingham, that the time was inop-
portune for the introduction of such a measure, he had
heard no sufficient reason stated by the Noble Lord at
the head of the Government in favour of the proposed
measure. He thought he might show tram the histories
of former Lord-Lieutenants of Ireland strong arguments
in favour of the continuance of that office, instead of its
abolition. The only argument they had heard in favour
of the Bill was that put by the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Sheffield; namely, the advantages which would
be derived from having an additional responsible Minis-
ter in that House to answer and give them information
upon all Irish affairs. But the present Irish Govern-
ment 'representatives, ho conceived, afforded every ne-
cessary satisfaction on the subject to Parliament. He
would ask them to consider how far the administration
of justice might be cheaper supposing there were scenes
of insubordination or insurrection. Were they to place
the Executise Government of the country under the
control of a Lord-Lieutenant to be immediately sent
over there, or in the hands of a military dictator, who
would receive his instructions from this country, and
whose mode of communication with the English Go-
vernment was liable to interruption. That was a portion
of the question which it behoved them to consider with
much seriousness, and it was one which, to his mind,
contained a vast responsibility.—(Hear.)
Lord NAAS said, looking back at the history of Ire-
land, believing that the Government of that country had
been eminently unsuccessful, and believing that the office
of the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland had been a chief fea-
ture in that bad system, he could not refuse to vote for
a Bill which proposed its abolition. He conceived the
system possessed all the evils of a colonial Government,
without its advantages.' But although he would vote for
the abolition of the office, he would hold himself at per-
fect liberty to vote as be pleased on the mode by Which
the Government proposed to institute another system in-
stead of that which existed. He regretted, however,
that the Minister, in introducing that measure bad indi-
cated no intention of showing that a new policy would
be adopted towards Ireland. He should give his vote
for the Bill, simply because he regarded it as a means of
abolishing a bad mode of government in Ireland.
Sir G. GREY said that there were two questions then
under their consideration. The first was whether the
office of Lord-Lieutenant ought to be continued, or
whether the time had arrived when it might be abolished
with advantage to Ireland and to the empire at large.
The other question was, by whom and in what manner
should the duties at present performed by:the Lord-
Lieutenant and the Chief Secretary for Ireland be dis-
charged in case Parliament should consent to the aboli-
tion of the present system of governing that country.
Now, with respect to the first question, he entirely
agreed with the Noble Lord who had just addressed the
House, that the tendency of the existing system was to
treat Ireland as a province, and tbat the effect of the
measure then before them would be to secure to the in-
terests of Ireland a greater share of the consideration of
the united Government and of the united Parliainent of
this country. The lion. and Learned Member for the
University of Dublin had spoken of the measure
as one which would deprive Ireland of a valuable
boon; and . the Honourable and Learned Member
had added, that such a change ought not to be
made in what he described to be the present
most unfortunate and depressed condition of every
interest in that country. But it should not be forgotten
that it was under the present system of governing Ire-
land that she had been reduced to that unhappy posi-
sition. The HOD. and Learned Gentleman seemaed to
,think that the Lord-Lieutenant possessed a great ad-
vantage in being able to communicate directly with all
those who were charged with the administration of
affairs in Ireland, or who felt interested in her welfare.
But he (Sir G. Grey) should remind the House and the
lion. and Learned Gentleman, that the Lord-Lieute-
nant must necessarily be indebted for the great mass of
his information to the reports which he received from
parties with whom he could not come personally into
connection. Tho question they hadthesnhotuoldcoinnsdiduceer
was this—was there any reason ashich
them to continue a system which was necessarily expen-
sive, and which he believed was also inefficient and
tun-
necessary under that existing system of communication.
between
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hin a s tehaesytwreoacchouonftrLieo
sn
donwh which
hs
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other parts of this country? The presence of an Irish Se-
cretary of State would, in his opinion, be attended with
considerable advantage. That Secretary of State would be
enabled to consult with his colleagues upon all mea-
sures affecting Ireland, and he would afterwards have
the opportunity of defending, in his place in Parliament,