The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-08 00:00:00

ward the matta' on a future and auspicious oecavion:
The noble hrd coheitiled by moving his resolution pro
fo rm a.

Mr. VERNON SMITH said that the question as it
stood at present was, that in June last the court of
directors hal, without his consent, sent out a despatch
stating that although they did not wave their claim of
right, to give or withhold any further contribution to
that fund, at the same time, if in the course of a few
years from 1836 it should appear that the revenue of
the fund should ❑ot be able to meet the charges, they
would be inclined to consider whether they could not
make some further consideration.

Mr. MANGLES expressel his appreciation of the
motive which had induced the officers of the Indian
arroy and the noble lord, not to press the ques'ion at the
presknt juncture, and expressed his belief that there
was every wilhngnet..B on the part of the court of direc-
tors to meet the matter in a liberal spirit.
The motion was then withdrawn.
THE LORD LIEUTENANCY OF IRELAND.

Mr. ROEBUCK then rose and said—Sir, I rise to bring
forward a motion for the ab: lition of the office of Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland under most auspicious circum-
stances. Not that I mean it will be so considered by the
house, but that I mean it ought to be so considered.
My late lamented friend Mr. Hume very often
pressed this proposition on the house. He brought it
forward under very difficult circumstances. Ireland in
1824 was in a state of confusion almost unprecedented.
In 1830 he also brought forward the proposition. In
1844, at the time of the monster meetings of Mr. O'Con.
nell, he submitted it to the house ; and in 1850 the
then Prime Minister, Lord J. Russell, submitted a bill
with the same object to this house, which was carried in
this house, under the most disastrous circumstances.
Ireland was then subject to the consequences of the
most dire famine that ever visited that unhappy country.
But now how different are the circumstances. Ireland
is a part—an integral part of England, governed as Eng-
land is, subject to no political or natural misfortune. She
is now happy in her Government—in her internal and
external circumstances—she is, in fact, a flourishing
country, and has nothing to complain of. I say this
bol lly. I say that Ireland is a part—an integral part
of the great country to which she now belongs, and has
nothing to complain of in her Government, osscapt is
respect to the one matter which lam about to bring
under the consideration of the house. (asar.) This
house has often been called on to abolish the office of
Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland—and why ? There are many
sorts of alliances between countries. There may be a
federal association, such as exists in the United States of
America. That is an association,- if I may so express
myself, of integers ; but feat is not the present associa-
tion of Ireland with England. Ireland ought to form
part of an association of fractions. We do not say the
united kingdoms but the limited kingdom of Grea
Britain and Ireland ; and Ireland ought to be a frac•
tional part of the great country to which she be-
longs. She is not anti ought not to be considered
an independent country ; and in so saying, let not
gentlemen from Irelan I fancy that I have any wish to say
anything offensive to them. Upon this point I may ap-
peal to my long political career, and I will say that if one
word cr act of mine could be found derogatory to Ireland
I should be ashamed of myself. (Hear, hear.) I think,
then, I may appeal to my past career, for everything
proposed in this house in order to make Ireland equal to
England has had my most strenous support. Therefore,
in proposiog, as I now do, that we take from her what I
consider the nne. badge of subjection, I am not doing her
an offence or disadvantage, but an advantage and bene-
fit. (Hear. hear.) What do I seek to do ? I have said
there are various sorts of alliances. The federal alliance
Ireland does not now preten Ito maintain. Before 1800,
when there was a Parliament in Ireland, she might be
said to be a kingdom of herself ; but the moment she
consented—and she did—to do away with her Parliament
—(Here some one among the Irish representatives, Mr.
Niteier, we believe, intimated dissent)—My boa, friend
shitices his head ; but I say she did consent. Was it not
a Protea ant Parliament that consented? Ido not mean
to say that means were not employed, disgraceful to Ire-
land and to those who employed them, to obtain that
consent ' • but still the Protestant Parliament repre-
senting Ireland consented to the union, and thereby
the condition of Ireland ac a separate and indepen-
dent nation was entirely done away with. She
consented to be a fractional part of a great whole—
the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland,
and what I now; seek to do is to make Ireland
the right arm of England. I want every county
in Ireland to be like a county in England, and every
parish in Ireland to be like a parish in England, and that
she should not call herself Ireland, but a part of the
united kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. I ask
what benefit does Ireland derive from her present ena-
mel rus condition I She has a viceroy—a papier masted
sort of royally. What does the Viceroy of Ireland do
for Ireland ? I will tell you. He is the focus of intrigue
in Dublin. He makes Ireland dependent, not on her
own individual exertions, but on the Government. All
those who can afford it run to Dublin, and anybody who
knows anything of Debar knows the sort of scenes that
take place before the Lord-Lieutenant there. In London
and in England the profession of tbo law is one of bro-
therhood, and there are many hon. and learned gentle-
men sitting on the opposite benches who are friends and
intimates of mine. I never asked whether they were
TurieP, Whigs, or Radicals, but I have learnt to my utter
astonishment and dismay, that gentlemen on this side of
the house who are Attorneys and Solicitors General for
Ireland have never met in private society with the At-
ter-totes and Solicitors General for Ireland on the other
side of the house. The gentlemen who are now Attorney
and Solicitor General for Ireland never met, I under-
stand, my right hon. friend opposite (Mr. Napier, we
believe, was alluded to) in private society. Now, Ibe
lieve that this is the result of an influence emanating
from the existence of a Lord Lieutenant in Ireland. I
believe that the existence in Dublin of that functionary
keeps apart all the elements of society in Ireland. It is
a sort of negative electricity. I would ask, too, what
is the expense caused by this tinsel monarch ? (Hear.)
My late friend Mr. Hume said, and I believe truly, that
it took 100,0001. a year to keep up that sham monarch.
But that is not all. There is a divided responsibility. I
would ask how is Ireland governed now ! First, there
is the Home Secretary, a Cabinet Minister ; next, there
is the Lord Lieutenant, who is not a Cabinet Minister,
but a Viceroy ; and then there is the secretary of the
Lord Lieutenant in this house. All these three persons
are really the governors of Ireland, but not one of them
is in connexion with the other, and nobody is respon-
sible for anything done. (Hear, hear.) I say that this is
a great mischief. Tao Lord Lieutenant is a mere sham.
He goes to Ireland, and what does he do? There are
certain func ions of government that belong to the Im-
perial Government of the country. Now, the Imperial
Government ought to be here. I know lam saying that
which to Irish ears is grating and harsb, but recollect
that we have before our eyes the example of a country
united with England under far different circumstances
from those in which Ireland was united—namely, Soot-
land. Now, Dublin is at present no further from Lon-
don than Edinburgh, but at the time when Scotland was
united with England Edinburgh was in reality three
weeks' journey from London, and then no viceroy was
placed in Scotland. See the change effected by the
electric telegraph and the railways— Dublin is
brought within eleven or twelve hours' communication
with London. Compare that with the three weeks'
journey to Edinburgh, when Scotland was made an
integral part of England. Let not, then, any Irish
gentleman suppose that I mean anything offensive:
What I mean is that Ireland should be part of
England—really a part, and I think I may appeal to my
own political career to show that I do not want to im-
pose on Ireland anything which England does not bear.
I want an equal law for Irishmen and Englishmen. I
don't want the distinction of Irishmen to exist. Cork
ought to be like York. (. laugh.) There ought to be vo
difference bet ;seen the great county of York and the
great county of Cork, except that one is somewhat more
distant from London than the other ; but to tell me that
there is any difficulty in governing Ireland in consequence
of its distance, is to tell me that our forefathers were un-
able to govern Scotland. Now, is that true ! Has not
the union of Scotland with England been of the greatest'
benefit to the former country Depend upon it—however
Ireland.
ndThehi wouldst b
ye
r
painful it may be to Irish gentlemen to hear such an
oat!
.tended
d—ltvhitehutnhieo nu
utmost
os
t Ireland
tood E
a
of this country, so far as Ireland is concerned, up to
years, has been a disgrace to Eug-
usurpation, despotism, as regards Ire-
llltinntddh,ilLav Cruelty,
eve rnry arfkw ed every step of English dominion ; but
since we have bad a reformed Parliament only two really
bteheeniprasishsedc.oerl.
oofplpenosseivde
bauctths
tahpopsleyiancgtot.o Ilr.ehleanodnehawvaes
cam Act, the other was the Ecclesiastical Titles Act.
Nobody opposed the latter measure more strenuously
than I did. I think mine was the first voice raised against
the proposal, and if there be any mischief arising from
that act I think its consequences will defend Ireland
from any repetition of such a measure. What have we
seen within a few days past? We have seen a right rev.
prelate of the Catholic Church of Ireland claiming the
title of Archbishop of Tuaiu, and you have not dared to
put in force the act of Parliament you were foolish
enough to pass. He boldly asserted that he was Arch-
bishop of Team. Now, if any offence can be committed
under the act this is one. (Hear, hear.) Is there any man
bold enough—is there any man insane enough—to endea-
vour to enforce that act against the right rev. prelate
I perceive by the working of the face of my bens
friend the member for North Warwickshire (Mr.
Spooner), that he does not like this. (A laugh.) I take
it to be one of the strongest proofs of the truth of what
I assert that, although the right rev. prelate has ciilled
himself Archbishop of Team, even my hon. friend who
entertains such strong
Hear, bear.) Now, what
provitioteshato
n
y. (
arise to Ireland from the
feelings on the subfjetchte, dAocets.nol
say, then, that Ireland is safe, and not
dare to put in operation the o intervention
of
f L d
ab lition of the office o orL. • ieutenant ? I have been
tleryis, ndaswki,l
can
renppoesastiebdi
inj
thr,atened with opposition by my hon. friend the mem-
be r hpepoopposes
University
proposal,
Dublin, and urde
represents
ecsaenn understandtri
Dublin.
why
Ho represents the milliners—(loud laughter)—and I can
undeistand that
forhe to
those ladies will be very strongly op-
posed to any proposal which will abolish the sham of
the Lord-Lieutenancy of Ireland, (" Hear," and a
laugh.) There is, however, something I cannot under.
stand, and that is, why my hon. and learned friend the
mete! or for Yarmouth (Mr. M'Culiagh) intends to move
" the previous question " upon my proposition. Now,
what is the previous question ?" It is, in fact, saying,
"I agree in want you say, but the time at which you pro-
neued your doctrine is unpropitious." (Hear, hear.)