The Sun.
London, England, 1868-03-31 00:00:00

THE IRISH CHURCH.

The Acts relating to the Irish Church having been read,
Major STEWART KNOX moved that the fifth article
of the act for the union of Great Britain and Ireland be
read. (Cheers.)
The CLERK than read the article, which is as follows:
—" That it be the fifth article of union that the Churches
of England and Ireland, as now by law established, be
united into one Protestant Episcopal numb, to be called
the United Church of England and Ireland; and that the
doctrine, worship, discipline, and government of the said
United Church shall be and shall remain in full force for ever
as the same are now by law established for the Church of
England ; and thafstlii; continuance and preservation —of
the said United Church as the Established Church of
England and Ireland shall be deemed and taken to be an
esseniial and fundamental part of the union ; and that in
liko manner the doctrine, worship, disciplifl., and govern-
Mont of the Church of Scotland shall remain and be pre-
vrved as tile same are' now established by law, and the
ii7cts for the 4mion of the two kingdoms of England and
Scotland."
The reading of the above was received with loud cheers
by the. Ministerial side of the house. .

Mr. SURTEES then moved that the act setting forth
the coronation oath taken by her Majesty should be read.
This having been done,
Mr. GLADSTONE, ainil loud cries of "Hear, hear,' ,
rose to move the following resolutions:—

"1. Tied it is necessary that the Established Church of
Ireland should cease to exist as an establishment:: duo re-
gardheing. had,to all personal interests and to all indivi-
dual.rights of prOperty:
"-2.. That, subject to the foregoing considerations, it is
expedient UT pleyout the creation of new.personal interests
by the exercise of any public patronage, and to conifer"
the operationiof the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, of -Ire-
land to objects of immediate necessity, or involving indi-
vidual rights, pending the final decisiun of Parliament.
That an humble addresis be .presented to her Ma-
jesty, ',mutely to pray that., with a view to the purpos€s
iforesaid, her Kijesty •wouid. be .graeiously pleased to
pltsce et the disp Pat-dement her interest in the t on-
.poralities of • the archbishoprics, bishoprics, and other
,?Cclesiastical dignities:and benefices in Ireland, and in the
custody thereof..
The riglit'hon. gentleman said it then became his duty to
that the house now.take into consideration the acts
tffeetingthielrishChureh„and. in doing so lie.wae glad
that the other hen, members had interfertA, because
it shoWAI that they were about to enter 'into the
consideration • of a • question upon a broad basis, and
that they , were not to have. a warfare of trick
and contrivance-(loud 'cheers)—but, on ill.) con-
trary, it was to be considered on • lioth sides of
the house, in 'a spirit which befitted the magnitude
of the issue.. (Hear, hear.) Then.noble lord opposite had
to hi§ (Ur. Gladstone's)motion moved au atu'endatent
raising the entire merits of the case, and it cast upon him
the responsibility and duty-to state the general nature of
his resolutions in antagonism to the amendment of the
noble lord.. In acquitting himself of this duty, he had to
show that the time had coins when the Church in Ireland
should cease as an establishment. (Hoar, hear.) For thirty
years there had been no sincere desire she Ain by the
Liberal party to op m up. the 'question of the Irish
Church. (tlear, hear.) • He had on var:ous occasions
given votes in_cornmittee and partial motions ol th sub-
jects, and thcso votes ho was willing to. repeat. (I, Jul
ktughter from the Opposition.) The L:b .rat party,
in his opinion,:was not open to a charge of di-
laying the consideragen of the question, because
theyi were not called upon to enter upon the question
Au pi the time bad arrived *hen th 4re was a prospect,of
Rtrqing.-thlir views to a Buccal issue. (Ch4r4
He had-made uo secret of his opinion on the subj !et, and,.
beitrg-- able, honestly to say he was
against all interference with the Clinre.-h as an establish-
ment lost him his seat for the OxfOrd University, and ho
now sat in the house for Lancashire. It was not the
object of the motion to take away all the revenues of
the Church in Ireland ; it was not, however, proposed to
give to the bishops and clergy of that church for doing
nothing those incomes they had received for doing
something. (Hear, hear.) They would still be called
upon to exercise the duties which they had
had to perform, and so they would continue to do for
the remainder of their lives after the Church had been
disestablished. He felt that the great fears that
had been expressed at the result of his motion
wore not grounded on any solid basis. (Hear, hear.)
At present the Church as an establishment hold its posi-
tion amongst an estranged and alienated population.
(Hear, hear. He felt that the result of the course
they adopted- would be that the Irish Church
would hold its own, respected by all, both in this country
and in Ireland, and that freedom which was so highly
prized by other denominations would not be an
evil to the Anglican Church in Ireland, but that by its
own internal energy it would maintain a position such as
it had never occupied before. (Hear, hear.) It was said
that if his motion was carried it would damage Protes-
tantism, and prove most injurious to the interests of the
Church of England, but ho entertained no such fear; and
on the ground of the common good he asked the house to
agree to his proposal for the disendowment of the Esta-
blished Church in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Much had
been said on one side of the question ; but could any one
prove that the maintenance of the Anglican Church
in Ireland had beon beneficial to Protestantism—
(hear, hear)—that was a material point to show, and it
would be for those who opposed his proposition to state
clearly the good to be derived from keeping that Church
as it at present existed in Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
In his proposal he asked the house to do two things—
first, to make a declaration ; the other was to ask for an
arrest of all episcopal appointments, and he did not see
that any great evil would result from the latter arrange-
ment.. Criticising Lord Stanley's amendment, he argued
that it would convey no consolation to the Irish popula-
tion, that it indicated a desire to agitate the question
(which he himself had carefully eschewed, having
patiently waited until the hour had come), and that it
showed very little respect for the new Parliament, inas-
much as it declined to remove out of its way considera-
tions which must embarrass it in dealing practically with
the question. Dealing next with the argument that this
concession would not pacify the Roman Catholics, Mr.
Gladstone entered into an historical retrospect to show
that all our concessions to Ireland had been the effect of
apprehension; and after examining the character, the cir-
cumstances, and the causes of the present crisis, he con-
cluded in an eloquent peroration by exhorting the house to
assist in building up, "by the cement of human concord,
the noble fabric of the British Empire."

Lord STANLEY moved as an amendment—" That this
house, while admitting that considerable modifications in
the temporalities of the United Church in Ireland may,
after the pending inquiry, appear to bo expedient, is of
opinion that any proposition tending to the disestablish-
ment or disendowment of that church ought to be reserved
for the decision of a new Parliament." He commenced by
echoing Mr. Gladstono's condemnation of a resort to trick-
ery, more particularly as ho foresaw that great efforts
would be made to put the question on a false issue. Mr.
Gladstone's resolutions, though his speech said much= said
nothing about disendowment ; and he objected to them,
first of all, because they were too general, shadowed out no
practical plan, and might be construed in any sense.
Those who meant by disestablishment the release of
the Church from State control might accept the reso-
lutions with the reservation that they should retain the
endowment. The resolutions avoided all the real difli-
culti2s of the case, and gave no inkling of the manner in
which the process of disestablishment was to be effected.
But the real question, Lord Stanley said, was not whether
anything should ho done, but what was the particular
thing to be done. Not one educated man cut of a hundred
(" and I," Lord Stanley said, "am not the ono") would
maintain that the ecclesiastical establishment of Ireland
was all that it should be, or that there were no scandals
in it ; but those who called for a disturbance of the
existing state of things were under an obligation to
indicate some practical solution. Lord Stanley discussed
next the numerous plans suggested for the disposal of
the property of the Irish Church, remarking that at
present public opinion could not see its way to the practi-
cability of ono of them ; and he maintained that Mr.
Gladstone's Resolutions merely Caine to this—that some-.
thing must be done, without saying what it was. Even
if the resolutions were carried, what was to be done then ?
There could bo no legislation this year except that re-
quired to carry out the two last resolutions, which was no
legisation at all. They might pledge this Parliament
which must come to an end almost immediately, but they
could not pledge the new constituencies, who must, as a