The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-21 00:00:00

charge their duties as faithful stewards of the people ? Then,
if they were, they could not shut their eyes, or rush blindly
on, without seeing how the country really stood. His right
hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said he would
neither affirm nor deny the resolution of the right hon. gentle-
man opposite, but would only say he thought that resolution
uncalled for and unnecessary. The word " deficiency" had
evidently a disagreeable effect on the house. They had been
for a number of years accustomed to a surplus, and he (Mr.
Gladstone) had begun to hope that the word " deficiency" had
passed from their vocabulary as well as from their recollection.
The right hon. gentleman deprecated the form in which the
right hon. gentleman put his resolution. He said he could
not understand the meaning of the phrase " adjusting the
income and expenditure." He said there could be no adjust-
ment in a committee 'of supply or in a committee of ways and
means, and that as for a select committee it would be useless,
for its labours would not terminate until the end of the session.
Why, those words, adjustment of income and expenditure,
would seem, from the observations of the right hon. gentleman,
to be written in a foreign language, though, if they were, he
would probably understand them a great deal better—(a laugh)
—but he (Mr. Gladstone) yet hoped that the significance of
those words, in the genuine mother tongue, would be yet fully
impressed on the mind of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
(Hear.) The right hon. gentleman opposite invited them
to take measures that, at all events, there should be no
deficiency that the country should, like an honest man,
pay its debts —cut its cloth according to its measure. Did
the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
threaten them with a deficiency or did he not ? He had met
them with an answer. But what sort of answer was it S His
right hon. friend on Friday night said something about the
balance in future years—an answer which in effect gave but
little encouragement to the House of Commons. He said his
right hon. friend who had asked the house to vote away the
taxes of that year could not possibly escape—he would fain
say should not escape -from the obligation of holding out a
reasonable prospect that we should have it in our power to
balance income with expenditure. Again, he would refer to
those proceedings which were originally his own, yet, as they
had received th sanction of the Government and of Parlia-
ment, had now become matters of record. When, in the year
1853, we entered on a course of prospective finances—when
the Government sketched the course of our finance onwards

to the year 1860, they did not shelter—they would not have
been permitted to shelter—themselves under such doctrines
as had been set up that night by his right hon. friend. His
right hon. friend said he could estimate the receipts of future
years, but he could not estimate the expenditure. Did he
think he would advance his character as a financial minister
by the adoption of such a maxim ? (A laugh.) Again, be said
he could estimate the revenues of future years. Could he
estimate the consumption of commodities by a growing popu-
lation—the consumption of tea and sugar in future years ?
He (Mr. Gladstone) did not know. Those gentlemen who had.
been Chancellors of the Exchequer had had very sad experi-
ence of the task of estimating the quantity of commodities
which would be consumed in future years by the population.
Why, if it came to that, he would say that he could not esti-
mate the receipts of future years, for they could only do
that by assuming the contingencies of ordinary years as their
guide for what would happen in years to come. (Cries of
" Well, well," behind Ministers.) Yoe, can? Why, then, by
the same method they might estimate the expenditure of fu-
ture years. (Opposition cheers.) Yet his right hon. friend
said he could estimate the receipts of future years, but he
could not estimate the expenditure. It did appear to him
when his right hon friend stood up in his place and made
that statement, that ho was trifling with the house, and using
them like children. (" Oh, oh," from behind Ministers ;
and loud Opposition cheers.) That, ho frankly owned, was
his opinion. (Hear, bear.) What, sir, not estimate the ex-
penditure ! Not within many millions ! whether it would be
fifty millions or five. (" Oh, oh," from behind Ministers.)
You can, then, estimate whether it would be fifty millions or
five. He begged them to be patient, for they would find ho
was not speaking without good reason. It might be seen
that the course of observation had been established by ex-
perione just as much in regard to expauditure as in regard
to the revenue of this country ; and the expenditure of the
country, apart from the contingencies of war, did not fluctu-
ate more than, not so much, as the revenue. What, then,
did his right hon. friend ? He set clown the expenditure of
the present year as amounting to 65,500,000/. ; he then made
an allegation that there would be a deficiency of 5,000,0001.
in the year 1858-9 ; he took the receipts of the year 1857-8,
and then compared the expenditure of the_ following year
1858-9 with the expenditure of the year 1853, which was
6,000,0001. less than this present year. (Hear, hear.) Now,
what bad the right hon. gentleman shown that would justify
him in that course ? Take it for what it was worth. Still
the house had a right to know what was the value that at-
tached to these figures. Ho. would say they were a pure and
perfect delusion. He asked him whether he or any Minister
of the Government could compare the expenditure of 1858-.9
with the expenditure of 1853 ? Did ho honestly believe that
the expenditure of 1858-9 would be that or 1853 ? Did lie
believe that ? No, the house might wait long for an answer.
He did not believe it ; and, if they allowed the statement
made by his right bon. friend to go forth to the country, they
were practising a delusion on the country. Why, there was
a sum of 1,760 030/. which had been added to the mis-
cellaneous estimates and serv.e3ms of the country since
1853. His right hon. friend knew that the great bulk
of that was in the shape of a permanent charge, and
that what of it was in the shape of temporal', charges
would in all probability be succeeded by other temporary
charges to at least a like amount. Every year the expendi-
ture had been rapidly increasing. Did his right hon. friend
wish them to believe that itowould be reduced by the amount
of 1,760,000/ in 1858-9 ? If his right hon. friend saw his way
to that, then he was not so trifling with the house, but if he
knew, as he (Mr. Gladstone) had said, that the great bulk if
that was in the shape of a permanent charge, and that ex-
penditure was steadily increasing, then he said his right bon,
frie .d was trifling with the house. Again, if the sum of
1,760 000/. could be dispensed with in the year 1858-9, he
wanted to know why it could not also be dispensed with in
the year 1857-8 ? He did not ask his right hon. friend to refer
the miscellaneous estimates to a select committee ; he knew
to) w..;11 what that would come to. Ho would not seek to
transfer to other shoulders duties undertaken by the Govern-
ment, and which they were not able adequately to perform,
but he wished to send them back to the Government, that
they might try their hand on them again, and if they failed,
then others might come to their relief,
,What he asked was,
whether his right hon. friend really believed there would bo
a reduction of 1,760,0001.? He (Mr. Gladstone) believed there
were not two opinions on the subjeCt on either side of the
helve. The reference to the expenditure of 1853 was purely
illusive. The house had nothing to do with the expenditure of
1853. He wished they bad. But he believed that the house,
by vigilance and Zramess, might produce an impression on
the expenditure. Bat he was not so sanguine as to believe
that they were going back to the expenditure of 1853. He
believed that, looking at the wants of the country, it was
more likely there would be an increase in 1858.9 on the ex-
pmditure as compared with that of 1857-8. Ho was not going
to state his reasons for that opinion For the militia he found
400,000/. put down—a sum which, lie must say, was much
below the average charge; but ho believed that would
be much below the charge for future years. Ire fouud
no fault with the Government. for the lowness of that
charge. The militia was embodied during the war, and he
thought it quite rational that the c cargo should be low the
year after the war ; but he believed it would be increased for
future years. The Persian war appeared for the sum of
260,0001. Beyond that they only knew this, that they were
at the commeumment of that war. We had already one ex-
pensive expedition in the Persian Gulf; another expedition
was ready to start for India; if he was not misinformed, wo
were at present mending out expensive stores to that coun-
try ; and we had another expensive expedition approaching
Persia through Affghanistan. He remembered the Chinese
war, that it was at first put down at 150,000/. The cost of
that war was recovered from China ; ho hoped that the cost
of this war might be recovered from the enemy. But this
he remembered, that the cost of that Chinese war amounted
to several millions before it came to a c 000. Of China now
the house had heard nothhte. They knew that they were at
war in that quarter, that destructive services were going on,
and that the Government were sending out men. But his
right hon friend said he was still pressed with the war con-
tracts. Ha would ask him how be stood for stores and ma-
terials ? He knew that every department was bursting with
stores and materials, and the Government know not where to
lay out money. But then we were going on with a war, and
the expenditure on that head would increase. As to the
coastguard the figures a ere not very clear ; but, as far as he
could understand them, there had been an increase of from
70,0001. to 80,000/, compared with what had been the usual
cost. But, then, the First Lord of the Admiralty stated
that the expense of that service would only come on gradu-
ally, that at first it would be light, and that at last there
would be a considerable increase. There, then, it seemed
they had another source of increased expenditure. His
right hon. friend rather estimated the receipts for future
years under the head of miscellaneous receipts at an extraor- 1
dinary amount. The average amount from that source
in the years ending with 1854 was 790,0001., but his
right lion. friend took them at 1,200 0001. for the present
year, and 1,400,000/. for the year following. How that
would happen he did not know. He rather feared a decline
in these receipts next year as compared with the receipts of
this year. He wished the house to take into consideration
that the miscellaneous estimates were in a course of rapid
growth, notwithstanding all the transfers which had been
made from that head to others ; for, in the memory of many
who were now present, they had increased from 2,000,0001. to
6,009,0001. Since the year 1853, notwithst Lnding what had
been transferred to other heads, they bad increased a sum of
1,750,000/. What probability, then, was there of a diminu-
tion for future years ? That increase is due, I fear, partly to
the extravagance of the house ; but it was due, also, to the
necessity of meeting the advancing demands of society, and
the house might now look for a steady increase. If they were
to look at that matter honestly, let them take it as a matter of
account, and bring the receipts and expenditure into a state
of adjustment ; and then, looking at the increasing wants of
the public, whether, with the extravagance of the house, ta.y
were not more likely to entail an increase than a Iliaunution
of expenditure. He would grant there were .ome small ser-
vices on which there might be a gain- lle believed that in
the military department there wore 56010 small heads of ex-
pense where, without any et orous attempts at diminution,
they might expect to slttain to it. He was not disputing that
they must extr.ti to see an increase upon expenditure ; yet he
must sa-Y although expenditure had inereased before, it
"".;reatly increased of late years from
which, he would not say threw cotitoni
something far from flattery. donsideritig the prospects held
.
thpatt on kind
the ofhleoguissel a, tbiount
out to them for the year 1858-9 by
the certainty of a deficiency accruing for that year, he for one
would not be responsible for it. Ile was astonished that aend,
his right hon. frxend, and
Government, which had been associated with many beneficial
measures, should now be so negligent as td sanction a state-
ment which departed so far from the first &lir:Aides Of finance.
He must lay, ehnetly, before the house the prospects then
before them. In the years 1858.9 the estimated income was
66,365,0001. The house would reeolleet hid fight holi. Mend
had suggested the project of a sinking fund. Many
membere of the house objected to that arrangement. They
told him that if peace came he would find that people did not
like the sinking fund; they would make suggestions for its
alteration, they would question its expediency, they would
find a way to throw it over or to evade it. That prophecy
was laughed at by his right hon. friend at that time, but it
had boon fulfilled. Those persons bad made their appear-
ance, but he (Mr. Gladstone) scarcely expected to find them
with his right hon. friend as their standard bearer. (Cheers.)
lie would not listen to their prayers—who laughed at their
forebodings--who ridiculed their prophecies' now came for-
ward and said he thought it a very legitimate proposal to ap-
propriate this sinking fund for the next three years, (Hear,
hear.)

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER--What I pro-
posed was the postponement of the commencement of it by
three years. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said he felt anything rather than dia.
sgisfied with the explanation as far as the purpose of_ his
argument was concerned. He (Slr. Gladstone) had thought
before that his right hon. friend really did propose to pay
something, but now it seemed he was disposed to pay nothing
—(hear, hear, and laughter)—but leave it to the Chancellor of
the Exchequer three years hence to commence it. He (Mr.
Gladstone) thought he knew what that proposal meant. IA
1855 there was a patriotic Government that would not under-
take to pay, but proposed a postponement. They had con-
tracted an obligation which they never acknowledged,. and
then they postponed their obligation for three years. It was '
needless to anticipate what would be, the result of such a pro-
P°64197; Having, then, ail lucent°, 141858-9, of 66,365,0004,