The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-16 00:00:00

increased rent went to the bishop, and two-thirds to
the lessees; besides that, all the bishop's revenue "s
not derived from the Paddington estate, bat Folly from
fines
and partly from rents, and the augmentation of re-
venue atisirg from an increase in one-third ad tie
ground-rcnts would not be sufficient to cover the eft•
cieney arsi..ng under other sources of revenue. The
Hon.
Gentleman said that the secretary of the Ecclesias-
tical Commission stated that the re:urns of the incomes
of bishops were fallacious; undoubtedly they vi ere, in the
sensemeant by the secretary, namely, as the basis (48
fixed ineotne. That individual meant to cast no slu r
upon the accuracy of the returns; for which he (Ilr'
Goulburn) pledged his honour. the
Sir B. HALL said his argument with respect to
Bishop of Oxford was that ho received a Olga for re'.
building his ecclesiastical residence, and cbarged interest
on it.
Mr. lIUME said there was a resolution of the House
that .bishops should have a fixed and unvariable income.
and he de:ired to know why it had not been carried cut.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, there was nothing to tbit
eft', ct in the Act of Parliament. It was, however, wb::
he proposed in the present clause—making it inlerthe
Live on the Commissioners to fix the income
bishops at a certain sum. With respect to the paiac.o
of the bishops, it would be for the Commisioners
make a provision for keeping them up. It Was' "vrid
ever, unfortunate that the ecclesiastical residences sheu
be called palaces.
Mr. HUME suggested that the decisions of the Eccice:
siastical Commissioners should be suljected to the r
vision of the Treasury, as regarded the latter boner ld
expenditure—that on palaces for the bishop& ""
be a cheek on them calculated to inspiredence. of the
The clause was. then ordered to stand part
Bill. public con

On clause 16,
Sir G. GREY stated that certain amendments were
proposed on this clause, having reference to the dear,et
erics of Salisbury and Wells, giving the incumbents c
4
increase of income. the
Sir B. HALL could never discover what were a
duties cf deans, or why English deans got from 1,0°,,„,
1 to 1,5004 a year, whilst Welsh deans only received 7o.ovo"
a year. He moved, therefore, that the stun in Vest' A
—that proposed by the Government—should bleonrge
to 7001. a year. The Hon. Baronet read
deans who were non-resident, and who, consequently, tr.
argued could not discharge any of the duties of lhheal
! office, if duties there were. He believed. however, t ,
1 there were no duties, and that the office was mere/
honorary.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the deans were only ]eft it
possession of the incomes secured to them by Act 0
Parliament, and the Hon. Baronet was not called tr.,
to pay anything. Deans were part of the ecclesias ,_,.
ldi le
et Of
establishment, and were useful in presiding over :eery
I chapter. He (Lord John Russell) should, hole oh;
I propose that all deans hereafter to be appointed sue_ *
Ibe unable to hold benefices. for the cure of souls er,..;
further distance than 'three miles from their deeveir's
and that after the lapse of six months all persons p
isented to deaneries should give up such prefermentbi„
! Mr. S. HERBERT was not satisfied that the J4`_',blo
• Lord had taken the best course to effect a eiestra_te
object. He thought it would be better to contrer to
the deans from a parochial or particular fund (Dem.°,
allow them to hold pluralities for the six 'Wattle P'
posed. .
Mr. HUME said the question raised was antn3Petrott
one. It deans were of no
real use they „ "g" which.
abolished. Why give away 1,0001. a year tor that.
e, to
was superfluous, and bad no essential duties attach "
the appointment?
Sir B. HALL said it bad been understood ths:bl3o°
dean was to hold a living if that living wags er% in-
three miles from his deanery. Now, he babeeeeted
' formed that the Dean of Bristol had recently Pereseelei
himself to a living in his own gift which was t a
_u'rige. .
distant from his deanery. To comply with the art."), it
ment to which he bad referred, the Dean of Bristol, 0
was understood, intended,to exchange this living,. three
piece of preferment within the specified distance of three
et
miles. As this was, in his opinion,
the Act, he begged to know whether the No
.14
would take any steps in the matter? ale of
Lerd J. RUSSELL said, with respect to the said,
the Dean of Hereford, that, as he had already. .i%
a palpable eVA ford
would be settled by the living being vacated withi?,ile
months. As to the case of the Dean of Bri't°e'seld
know nothing of the circumstancee, and therefore
isuo",,
not say what ought to be done. If, however, thec.,nod
passed, no dean would be able to hold a living uvi-the
six months if it were more than three miles from
deanery. ed.
Sir B. HALL said his question had not been Anse the-
He
wanted to know the Noble Lord's opinion o_eir,
proceedings on the part of the Dean of Bristol, oewerti•
whether he considered an evasion of the Act WI zn., toe
tated by the dean presenting himself with a iiva3„l",ing
miles from his deanery, and then afterwards each
it for a living within three miles?
• Lord J. RUSSELL knew nothin of the circunasteno7o;
All, however, he could do was to take care that the vile.
of Bristol held no living that was more than three febat
from the deanery. It was not in his power to sa1:101
ought to be done, as be knew nothing about the e'' r
arrangement.
Mr. P. WOOD could not consent to the ahelietieldi
the deans altogether. He thought there were grace efs
seerious t mployments in prayers and Church serref",:ber
fif lent to cccupy the deans, although the Roo. e,_*" ,
or Montrose might think those duties niportep.; of
Mr. HUME said, if deans did nothing,uni and
in-e
,
no use, he would have them swept awayaltogeturee'tri
;O.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEB
to the case of the Dean of Ripon, instanced V, °it
Hall, end I xplained that the case was exceptions" wae
Sir B. HALL replied that the dean in questie:°, to
obliged to neglect his duties in one direction, or"rljereide
the terms cf the Act, which compelled him t°, .bat
eight months at his deanery. His objection olts'ofo ill
deans in England were to have 1,000/ and cle,hBo-t the'
Wales 700/. He should move at a fitting time *- rids'
salary le reduced to 7001 Nothing created more 0 the
cule, and threw more discredit on the Church, tr It
way in which these matters were managed illWilip.:l6o°:
was absurd to send deans and bishops to ilv ait et
could not speak or read the Welsh latigusge'r sb'i
impossible to describe the ludicrous and
.dtits,c etcleitts tet°.
scenes that occurred in consequence of •--- e see
things. The deans were obliged, in some histr Wb°
get their sermons written for them. One °I-vile
had been expelled from an Independent cfoteols''
gation, was the writer of many of these 5°1,-00
He was recently brought before a bench of ir".. at ha
for not supporting his family. The dean for Wild he
taesr.ednthise
rmepalny
wrotek sermons was on the bench at the time' le hies '
was,ilhy he did not maintain his of
lope
preferment; and if
a sermons,bmi.j.r:_w(llHLesiharailAl
kmbeeas:a.'bo‘lu'el:
give me something more than half-a-crown for °
ore 00th
mor
dig'
satisfaction which was created in Wales by to "'„, 11P'
)could personally speak ,of Zeiet:
merit to dignified offices in the Church of perseivelob
t °of for
supportr ho
whomid in many
writep iecse
familyes rotuf :In:es
0, ;:ei 10/
could not speak, write, or pronounce the Aides t!
language. To give an instance of the ebsurren thtl'i
which the present system led, he would matte col
on one occasion, a clergyman preaching to big Wei'
sceorningreengawtiiothno,natndkneonwdienagvouvvrienigsnt,o pronounce t'il wie%
foj o 0
made the hie
ludicrous mistake:—The sentence of "The r'rvireig"
shall inherit eternal life," was so turned ot° muses;
by the English clergyman as to mean, to ettitei deco;.
went ment of the congregation, " The goslings s"°, 0 elleh
the_ food of geese."—(Laughter.) In anothercas!'e vfeloo
the abuses connected with the preferments ill til 0 of 03,,'
Church, he would instance the fact of the two o°Dboisiel
Bishop of St. Asaph, who did not know Wels' of 8'
livings which in amount equalled the AtiPe
• Os
Welsh curates. t and ids
Dr. NICHOLL defended the atipointmeo-°'•ehoel
had Welsh persons been appointed to Welsh Igfelt, tie,.
the greatest dissatisfaction would have been Aieeese:r,
only by the laity, but the clergy of the different 'id thel
Mr. DRUMMOND said the deans had eeglee. a, te_,
duties,_. and ibis bad led to the cry for reform- that ill:
heved the Church had so neglected her vocadoo., to ""
fleitutlnedonfmreolniggitokne tphiastsewnatserlsett in the country " A 0
id be -47 li
Mr. HUME thought the best thing that c°ll' to setic '
would be for Government to furnish inear 1
every Welsh person to read and speak •Erigieltillo. 0 t° lb
After some further conversation, the au-
clause
Lord wda.s agreedt , lel.
ree' ot
RUSSELLo. thought it
vantage in the case of populous livingswoilla be a ifg. or 10 6
worth B°„ries, ilia,
adeyaenar, that they should be attached to deao!...totee
providing an efficient cure for their our'
otm•
ence.
melide ‘f
d 910/'
Sir B. HALL thought the clause an a re el
make deans and canons of cathedrals still too, cilia!'
by giving them a cure of souls within catbedraett, ceded
Mr. A. J. B. HOPE supported the amendn.34lo feer
Mr. HUME expressed his hope that the 1'1" be
would assent to it. bt ° be
Mr. I'. W. WOOD thought some limit °lig in 'hi
fixed to the amount of the income, otherwise,es 04.
case of London, Cripplegate, with 2,000/- a fear,
be attached to a deanery.
Dr. NICHOLL supported the amendraeating Oil:.
Mr. HENLEY said if it was meant to h _ ,bore ~,
where.
~.3objc-r,
sources of the deanery in aid of places
a cure of souls with small emolument, be haa u wicif :
000 10
tion to the boundary being three milee, or ,_„0 to ;$
but if it was meant to enable deans to hold lirlPreeliteh
crease the amount of the deanery, the narrower IP
to
the better. svelel
Sir G. GREY said the object of the eleg-irotittoe
place a restriction on deans holding benefices° "
moil'
distances. the
es
Lerd J. RUSSELL said he would consent tO ' s tie
sion of the words. ge t tb°;tob
Sir B. HALL moved a proviso to the elo-cof -
dean shall take a charge of a living, the /81--e Of
exceeds 2001. a year. se eche! 0
Sir G. GREY said, in the case oft he I,ooOrpcji,
Rectory Bill, the dean, whose income was , 00 Orre
year, was authorised to receive 5001. a Yellrloche8:01
tional remuneration for the cure of souls in '."*" did '
If that principle was correct six weeks ago, be
l 001‘
see why the limit should now ba fixed at 2n o
-- • none t
The gallery was cleared for a division, but
e °I
place, and the limit was fixed at 5001 chose of
Mr. GLADSTONE then rose to move the mice d
bishoprics in
which he had given notice relative to the for number
bishoprics t t"
bishops relatively to the population was . to .4
populous towns. He said theeritz.epot free
what it was in firmer days. It was 0br.10119 ronulo
small number of bisheps had a great effectloagrgtopeece
the evil of the position of the bishops too 03.1tei
the Church. It was said that the bishops Acherap% -the
estranged by their habits of life from the coed ii 00
that estrangement would, of course, be iocre, went 0,
bishops remained stationary while the e'er& were 511
increasing. It was said, two, ' Ogt"
cularised by the mass of business before
9 leg
secularisation must become greater every also, that the bishop and 0..