The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-20 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

The Marquis cf LANSDOWNE presented several
petitions in favour of the extension of education, and
also a petition from some place in the north of Ireland,
in favour of tenant-right.
Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition against
Sunday labour in the Post-office; also from certain
proprietors in Ireland against any further legislation on
the fisheries; and a petition from some Dissenting con-
gregation against church-rates.
IRISH POOR-LAW.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH presented a petition
from the board of guardians of Currick-on-
Shannon, complaining of the administration of the
Poor-law in Ireland. He had himself been
the victim of improper persecution on the part of the
administrators of the poor-law in Ireland. His agent,
Mr. Hickey, had last year stated before a Comsnittee.of
their Lordships the persecution to which be (the Mar-
quis of Westmeath) had been subjected; but as he (the
Noble Marquis) had nut be en in his place in Parliament
for two years, he had not seen that evidence until
a few days since. He had always paid his poor-
rates, but in 1847 a demand was made fur rates
upon his agent, which he thought unjust ; that
demand he resisted. The Commissioners refused relief.
and they issued a distriugas against his property fur
914 for rate god costs, the amount originally demanded
having been 331. He applied to the Court of Common
Pleas to stop these vexatious proceedings, but the Chief
Justice of that Court, blinded as to the true state of
affairs, declared that it was a very fit case to be pro-
ceeded with, as against a person who had refused to pay
his rates ; and he had been vexatiously levied upon for
costs and expenses, because Mr. Twiselton had been mis-
led by statements made to him by his subordinates. All
the waste of money and all the injustice which had been
committed in Ireland was chargeable upon the original
authors of the Poor-law, who had proposed that law un-
der pressure. It was in the west el Ireland that the
pressure of this Poor-law was particularly felt. The
measure bad been pressed upon Parliament by the peo-
ple of England and Scotland, who loaded the tables
of the Houses of Parliament complaining of the immi-
gration of Irish paupers, and therefore it was for the
benefit of England and Scotland that this burden was in-
flicted upon Irish proprietors. Irish able-bodied la-
bourers now came to England and Scotland, and left their
wives and children chargeable to the Irish union, and
God only knew what was to become of their. He

blamed the Government for not having hal a prowr
valuation made as a La3is for rating. The Goverimakcilt
was also to blame for not adopting meaaut es to prt vent
the cuuuty cess-payer from not being called upon to pay
his county cess a second time—this was like poor-rates--
a question of taxation, and therefore he had a right
to
allude to it. A receiver of county cess in a county in
Ireland had gone off with 10,0001. of cess money in his
possession, and the unfortunr.te cuss-layer had been
called upon to pay his cess over again, which w:tts must
ihtolerable. It was inexcusaLle on the part of the Go-
vernment to sutler such a state of affairs to continue.
In speaking this he meant to cast no reflection on the
Lurd-Litutenant, who Le believed had dune his duty
conscientiously, hut he did complain, and the
Petitioners complained, of the conduct of the vice-guar-
dians, who Lad administered the funds t f the Irish
unions most wastefully and extravagantly. The petit
tioneis also complained that the vice-guardians had
not taken proper securities from their officers for the
peiformance of their duties, and that they had enter d
into extravagant, usele:tp, and was:eful contracts. The
peti,ioners were prt pired to substantiate all the charges
nia'e in this petition, and he should therefore move that
the peti!ion be rt ferret! to a ;Select Committee ti inves-
tigate and report ul on all the alegations therein con-
tained.

The Earl of MO UN TC ASHELL seconded the motion,
There was a great dither ence as to the mode in which the
poor-laws were iuire,duced into England, and the reoee
in which they were introduced iota Ireland. Whoa they
were introeuced into England, in the time of Queen
Elie .both, it was in a time of prosperity, and a, the y
were introduced gra tersely no itic,uivei ierree was fe t
from thorn, there being but little distress at the time.
But as regarded Ireland, it was intruducee at a 1 eriod
when the greatest misery prevail, d, when the country
was overrun with paupers, and it had consequently bsen
productive of the worst cons quenees. Ireland had long
been a peer country, but she had never been reduced so
low as she had been by the late measures of theGovernraeut.
The value of the land had been depreciated, and, to com-
plete the cup of misery for Ireland, an Act had been
passed to compel the landed proprietors of Ireland to
sell their land under these unfavourable circumstances.
If things lung continue in the state they were now in,
the fee simple of Ireland would soon be required to be
sold to ply the accumulated arrears of rates. Ile
trusted, therefore, the Committee required would bo
appointed.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the question be-
fore the House was one referring simply to the appoint-
ment of poor-law guardians in a certain union in Ireland,
and not, as would be interred from the speeches of the
Noble Marquis and the Noble Earl, as to the propriety of
withdrawing the present poor-law from Ireland, and the
repeal of all the Acts which of late }ears had been passed
for the benefit of chat country—(Hear, hear.) In re-
gard to the question submitted to the House, he was not
prepared to state that, with regard to the expenditure e f
the guardians and vice•guardians of the unions referred
to beethe Noble Marquis, there were not instances of
great profusion, but that was DO fault of the law, the evil
arose out of the difficulty iu finding proper parties to
administer the law. In considering the charges against
the vice-guardians, however, it was necessary to consi-
der what was the system of administration pursued by
the guardians previous to their appointment. Why
the mode of their administering the law was so bad the
general voice of the country was for the appointment of
vice-guardians. So deficient had been the guardians in
stbeeeischarge of their AtiViese that the montractoes had
refused to allow provisions on their credit, and with the
evils created by the misconduct of the guardians in that
respect the vice-guardians had still to contend. He would
never attempt to shield from the censure he merited
the man who would betray his trust, in the manner
which the Noble Marquis had stated; and he believed
the gentleman implicated was himself taking steps to
have the charges against him fully investigated into.
That he learned from a communication ho had received
from Ireland the other day. To show that the vice-
guardians had not been so deficient in their duty as the
Noble Marquis would have the House believe in the
union alluded to, he might state, that under the ex-
tended poor-law the namber in that union receiving
out-door relief in 1948, was 19,651, while in 1840, being
the year the vice-guardians came into office, the number
receiving outdoor relief had been diminished to 8,560.
Besides, when the vice-guardians came into office the
accommodation in the workhouse only contained 860,
but in November last, when they went out of office,
there was accommodation for 1,810 individuals, while
the number receiving outdoor mild had been reduced
to 778. That showed that the vice-guardians of that
union bad not altogether neglected their duty, and as
he did not believe that such an inquiry into their con-
duct as that moved for would be productive of any good
results, he must object to the appointment of any Par-
liamentary Committee on the subject, more especially as
those guardians against whom the charges were alleged,
bad all gone out of office.
Lord STANLEY said the Noble Marquis seemed to
treat the matter in a singularly light manner. Ho said
there might have been some instances of profusion on
the part of those guardians, and seine thiugs to find
fault with in respect of their conduct, but nothing so glaring
as to call for Parliamentary inquiry. But could any
one read the allegations cf those petitio, era and say
that they ought to be treated in such a trifling manner?
The ratepayers had no control over these officials, and
ii was therefore the duty of their Lordships to inquire
into their grievances. Captain Wynne had also, con •
trary to the remonstrance of the relieving officer, placed
on the relief lists a woman of a notoriously bad charac-
ter, with whom he (Captain Wynne) had cohabited.
That was, no doubt, a serious charge to be brought for-
ward against au officer of the Government, but it was
(-tiered to be substantiated on oath, and the Noble
Marquis ought not to have passed it over in that
light and trivial way.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE observed, that he
attached the greatest impettarica to it.
Lord STANLEY continued to ray that ho did not
mean unecessarily to throw any eunsuie on the vie. -
guardians of 'unions, but from a 1 aper laid on their
Lordships' table, it appeared that during their term of
out of 35 unions, the liability had inert a.ed from
111,6211. to 223,7441., in additir n to which, they re-
ceived out of the rate in aid 164 5321. That was the
economical working of the union uneer the manage-
ment of vice-guardians. They had added to the former
liabilities 100 per cent. in addition to 150 per cent.
which they had received from the rate in aid. Now if
the Poor-law Commissioners were good for anything, it
was principally tor the appointments made by them
to carry out the law. It was said that Mr.
Robinson was a needy man, but here was a public
officer who ran a bill tor his own purpose with the
contractor of the workhouse, and left without
paying it. That was not a case of profusion, but of
gross misconduct. Contracts for milk, fuel, &c., were
stated in the petition to be grossly mismanaged; the straw
in the paupers' beds was allowed to remain in them for
seven months, the clothing was all rotten; and that owing
to the misconduct of the officers appointed by the Com-
missioners. He believed that such conduct deserved the
severest public reprobation, and it was no answer to the
charge to say that they e ere no longer in office.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, the only ob-
stacle he sew to appointing a Committee was, that these
parties were no longer in office; hut if any charge cf
corrupt conduct was made, he should be the last man to
oppose any obstacle. He was there fore prepared to re-
consider his decision, and withdraw his opposition to the
appointment of a Committee.
After a few words in explanation from Lord STAN-
LEY and the Marquis of W ESTMEATU, the Committee
was agreed to.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 19.
LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL.

In answer to Mr. S. CRAWFOIID,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he could not at
present state when the second reading of this
Bill would bo gone on with. On Monday
there was the Australian Colonies Bill ; on
Thursday next the Stamp Duties Bill, and in the en-
suing week he meAnt to take the Ecclesiastical Commis-
sion and the Committee of Supply.
LOSS OF THE ROYAL ADELAIDE.
In answer to a question from Mr. F. FRENCH,
Mr LABOUCHERE said that he had no reason for
saying that the Royal Adelaide was anything but a well-
built ship—he did not think that the accident was owing
to any want of skill in the cap'ain.
AUSTRALIAN COLONIES GOVERNMENT
BILL.

The House then went into Committee on this Bill,
Clauses 3,4, and 5 were agreed to without discussion.
On clause 6 being proposed,
Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTII moved, in line 26,
to omit all the words after the word " That," down to
the word "and,"
in line 39, for the purpose of inserting
these words, " there shall be established in the colonies
of Van Diemen:3 Land and south Australia respec-
tively a Legislative Council and a House of Assembly."
If this amendment were agreed to he should proceed to
propose other amendments by which these two chambers
would to made elective. It was admitted that the form
of government at present existing in the colonies ought
to to changed, while it was equally as true that the farm
he proposed was the best in theory; but the Govern,
ment., bad urged certain special reasons why it could not be
applied to Victoria and New South Wales, and he should,
therefore, confine himself to a consideration of those
specially. It was said that the colonists were quite satis-
fied with one chamber, and it would, therefore, be an
arbitrary and unjust proceeding to force two upon them.
Now, in the case of the two colonies mentioned
i
n this amendment, that objection did not
apply, for the colonists themselves were favour-
able to the principle of two chambers.
Within the last few days most important information
had arrived in ais country, in a letter from Sir William
Denison, the Governor of Vun Diemen's Land. In that
dispatch Sir William Denison expressed his decided cue-
demnation of that part of the Government Bill which
they were now discussing. With regard to the principle
of a second chamber, Sir W. Denison said he doubted
very much whether the evidence in possession of the Go-
vernment was sufficient to prove that the people of ew
i
South Wales were willing to adopt such a change n the
form of their existing government.—(Hear, Kerr.)
The Ilou:e had no evidence that the people of /New
South Wales wished to alter their institutions in that.par-
ticular. Sir W. Denison also said he would submit that
the welfare of three colonies now about to be culled into
political existence must be allowed to outweigh the
indifference of the inhabitants of New South %Valve.
Could anything be more unwise than to start those
three colonies with bad institutions simply because New
South Wales was indifferent to reform in the change f
its government? Sir W. Denison was of. opinion that a
body constituted like the proposed single chamber,
finding itself in possession of power, it was not ut
all probable that they ould originate or carry out
changes which would in Effect diminish its power.
The lion. Gentleman then proceeded to read a letter
from Sir 11. Young, the Governor of South Australia,

which be argued proved that Sir Henry Young,
and indeed all the colonists of South Aus-

tralia, were opposed to tLe Government scheme.
He must remind the Committee that their
Bill had been postponed from last session, in order
to give time for iuformstion to reach this country, and
now the Bill ought not to be proceeded without the most
valid reasons being shows for the assent of the colonists.
If there were any grounds fur believing that they
did assent they had been studiously concealed
The working of a single chamber had Ikea tried in Nutt.
South Wales for seven years, and he did not think with
much success. The system of New South Wales was in
direct violation of one of the fundamental principles of
the constitution, which declared that none could be tixel
without the consent of the majority of their representa-
tives. The amount of expenditure per head on the popula-
tion of our colonies depended entirely on the form of
their local Governments, and the expenditure was
greater or less precisely ss the Colunial-3ffice had more
or less to do with them. It was greater when the Cole-
inal-office had more, end lass when it had least to do with
the guv ernmeet of the colonies. The average rate per
head, w hen the Colonial-( Ilite exercised it, I ineers to up-
point nominees, was higher than vi hen the celeeists
post essi.d representuth e institutions in which t e had
LW nominee'.
Is was said by the Government, that as
the principle of app .intieg numb ees Lad been se.t'ed
with regard to New South Walt s it c ught to be
considered as settled with respect to all the
Australian colunier, so closely were they connected
together. But there appeared to be gat
misapprehension on this subj. et, and he sup-
posed that many in tl re'. House thought the Atisna-
liuu
coioni..B were as closely connected te gether as the
cum ties of Diglatil That, however, was not the ea-e.
Adelaide, the capital of South Australia, was eOO miles
from Sydney, and the capital of Western Australia
was diseLet, 1,700 miles from Sydney, or further
than Constantinople was distant from London.
Such an argument, therefore, was utterly absurd
on the present occasion. One of the arguments most
relied upon in favour of the Bill was that it contained
a provision which allowed the colonies, from time
to time, to amend their institutions and the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government had ex-
pressed his surprise that any on his side of the House
should eppose a Bill which was the very. embodiment of
liberal principles. More stress had, however, been laid
upon this argument than the circumstances justified.
This provision would only add to instead of diminishing
the despotic power of the Colonial-office, and he need
not point to its recent blunders in Ceylon, New South
Wales, and New Zealand, to prove that it was unworthy
of these additional powers. Another argument against
this theory used by Hon. Members who opposed it was
that the colonies themselves were nufit to receive
the double chamber, and he called upon those
lion. Members to prove it. Was it in smallness:of the
population, or in their ignorance, that they deaerved this
unfitness? If it wore in the former, he would just point
to the example of America, were the principle prevailed
in many states whose population, at its origin, amounted
to scarcely a third of that of these colonies, and the re-
sult had been to add to the influence of the American
Republic, and to increase the number of its inhabitants.
He would ask the Committee why they refused to give to
the Australian colonies the same political institutions which
experience and theory had proved to be suitable to Anglo-
Saxon communities located in the back woods of North
Americs? When an English subject set foot in our
American colonies be lost no political immunity which
he enjoyed in the mother country; but when he
entered any of our Australian colonies he relinquished
many of the liberties and privileges, the enjoyment of
which was guaranteed to him in the land of his birth. The
Noble Lord (J. Russell) proposed a chamber consisting
of 24 members, 16 of which should be elected by the
people in the colony, and eight of them should
be nominated by the Colonial-effice, who should sit in
the same chamber. He would ask, was it likely that
the Colonial-office could select out of the materials ex-
isting in those colonies right Members who would be
better fitted to sit in the Legislature than than those who
had been elected by the people in the colonise?
lie (Sir W. Molesworth) thought they would find the
greatest difficulty in that. With these observations he
would leave his amendments in U. hands of the House.

Mr. E. DENISON said he had hitherto supported the
Government measure contrary to his own and the gene•
ral prepossessions of the House in favour of two cham-
bers, having waived his own judgment in the belief that
the reasons adduced by the Government in favour of
their scheme rendered it an exceptional case. Those
reasons were that it was unfair to interfere with the form
of institutions with which the colony itself, referring to
New South Wales, was satisfied, and that the House did
not possess sufficient information to guide it in the course
of policy they ought to adopt if they departed from the
existing form. Since that there had been several no-
tices given on the subject of the federative principle, but
in the papers which had been laid before the us.
Lord Grey had stated that the federative principle would
he inoperative, and for the present time must to put out
of consideration. The management of the waste lands,
however, was to be vested in an ass, mbly constituted on
the federative principle. Was it intended, then, that no
action should take place on the subject of the waste
lands, a question on which the colonists felt the deepest
interest, but respecting which under this Bill there was
nothing to be done whatever. The Honourable Gentle-
man who had last spoken had callel attention to the
dispatches received from the colonies on the subject, but
he could not have seen the diet' sech which had been
placed in the hands of Hon. Members that reorr.ing,
or he would have referred to it, for it was infinitely
more favourable to his purpose than all that bad yet ap-
peared before the House on the subject. It must have
been an aceicental omission on his part, and it was to
supply that accidental omission that he (Mr. Denison)
nose. They Lad, then, not only a dispatch of Sir H.
Young, but also a body et' resolutions passed by the
Legislative Council of South Australia on Saturday, the
15th of December, 1849. Those resolutions declared
that the Legislature should consist a a Governor and
two, chambers, the upper cista,ber composed of n.ein-
hers nominated by the Crown, and for life. The Gover-
nor in his dispatch qualified those resolutions, slid stated
that he did not concur in their recommendation of ap-
pointment by the Crown fur life ; and he proposed
another plan. But the important point for the House
to consider was, that the South Australian Legislative
Council had pronounced in favour of two chambers..
The Noble Lord told them it was of importance to con-
sider the sentiments of the colonists in the matter.
Here, then, on the question of two chambers, they had
got the opinions of the three Governors presiding in the
Australian colonies—viz., Sir C. Fitzroy, who was the
Governor of New South Wales, including Victoria; the
Governor of Van Diemen's Land; and next, the Go-
vernor of South Australia, Sir 11. Young—all stating
that it would be ext client and an improi ement to have
two chambers. And besides those, they had from the
only ono of those colonies from which it had yet come in
an authentic shape a declaration of opinion in favour of
the two chambers. ID addition, they had the opinion of
the Legislative Council of South Australia on the sub-
ject of the management of the waste lands, that no ge-
neral system ot regulation would be applicable to all
the Australian provinces, and that the establishment of
a general assembly ou the federative principle was moat
inexpedieet, because of the great dissimilarity of pur-
suits and interests existing in the several provinces. To
proceed further, then, with the present Bill as it now
stood would be a mere waste of time. He thought it
impossible, with the information they had now got, to
force upon the colony of New South Wales a legislature
consisting of one chamber. Ile, at all events, would be
no party to such an act of injustice, and if he Lad but
one Member to support him he would give his moat
strenuous opposition to the measure.
Lord J. RUSSELL said if his Hon. Friend had at-
tended to the circumstances he would not have made the
statement which he had. He had done so on the ground
that the people of South Australia had come to a resolu-
tion that there ought to be two chambers, and that that
was favourable to the proposition of the Hon. Member
for Southwark (Sir NV. iNfolesworth). Now what had
happened was this. With the exception of New South
Walev, there was not in any of those colonies any repre-
sentative assembly whatever. Those which now existed
were legislative councils nominated by the Governor;
they were, according to the phraseology cf the Hon.
Member for Southwark, the mere nominees of the Colo-
nial-office. At all events, however improper that phrase
was, they derived all their authority from the Colonial
Government, under the approval of her Majesty. Such
a legislative council in South Australia had come to cer-
tain resolutions that the Legislature should consist of
the Governor and two Chambora. So far, that approved
of the plan of the Hoe. Member for Southwark ;
but proceeding further in those resolutions they
found that the second chamber should be elective,
with the exception of certain ex officio members'
namely, the Colonial Secretary, the Advocate-Genersis
the Colonial Treasurer, the Collector of Customs, the
Surveyor-General, and the Commissioner of Police, who
.
were to have seats in the representative challebo!, wanno!
the upper chamber was to be composed of members
minated by her Majesty for life. Nothing couldhseomuoth.
more
unlike the proposition of the Hon. Member
fur
catedbebr, am and
Crown; but the Colonial Legislativeo
%%ark. The Government proposed 000
that part of the members should he
ooufnwciinhlai ichrostrosueald
ntee
that there should be two chambers,
other should consist of representatives be entirely nominated by the Cntraotwivnesfoorf
thbfee,pwoohpillen.atlinde
13,,,imnitoodratbary Crown.i.tsht.oocratie
eo nstßit.uut.
some additional members
if
bare
e
peo-
ple iti:etghlae-t
youssunoubiau nooptincolounntoefr.
still it might be said, if that wore the
i opinion of the
pthleeyofonlyouwthisAheudstiroalia
tion—a House of Lords.
peoplelative of Councilsou South
bwas
Australia,n otthe
vvo.phiouiolinadahetlhde
agpen:brisiel
meeting, an- abad there altogether denied that
the Legislative Council represented the opinions
of the colony. The opinion of the colonies hid
beexpressed in favour ot one assembly, and all his
sloe. Friend had done was to show that the Legislative
Council which had been named by the CroWn did not
like to give up their authority, but desired to preserve it
all in their own hands. But it was said that the go-
vernors of the colonies were in favour of two chambers.
'lhat
in favour i
mightbeurgfedtwono the proper obccuta,sion as an argu-
ment so far as the
opinion of the people of the colonies were concerned,
there was nothing at present to alter the state of things.
Mr. ADDERLEY said the Noble Lord must allow
thet the question was bc!.ween a single and a double
chamber, and it showed that the Noble Lora was only
dealing with the surface, and not the main rinciplse of
the question, when be thought that there w iss a diffe-
rence between the opinions of the Legislative Council
of South Australia, and that of the people, on the
question of a double chamber. It was no matter
whether the colonies spoke out or not, as far as t;he Go.
vernment was concerned, for whatever opinio n they
expressed, Gentlemen in that Ilouse were met.' by the
apocryphsJ information which the Government ihad ever
ready in their pockets, as to what tho sentia\ents of
,the
colonists were. Now, they were told of a lar,go Meetl4
in which the colonists hal expressed theirs eVniimellgs

1

evourable to one chamber. That was a piece o infor-
mation which had been withheld from he House. How-
ever oonclusive the argument might he, there were
•
acme mysterious wishes of the colonists to be taken for
granted at the declaration of the Government. But
ahere were these wishes to be found expressed? He
(Mr. Adderley) had looked through the papers laid
before the Houle, and he could not find them. Did the
Government assume a degree of clairvoyance, and pro-
tease to know by that means the wishes of the colonists?
To demand an agreement on the part of the House was
tantamount to a vote of confidence on the colonial
policy of the Government—what he (Mr. Adderley)
eculd not, under the circumstances, consent to. He con-
sidered the kind of information laid before the House
-sas net calculated to establish the case of the Govern-
ment. At first it was contained in two books, 1848-49,
ftud consisted of dispatches. Reading that, however, he
aereed with Sir W. Denison that no man could say the
e lunists objected to two chambers—all that could be
gathered from it was that the colonists of New South
Wales were dreadfully alarmed at the caricature of the
British constitution proposed for them. The next piece
of information given to the House was, the colonists of
New South Wales had expressed their gratitude to the
Government for the constitution; but it now appeared
that, being excessively alarmed, and despairing of any
constitution, they naturally expressed themselves grate-
fel for the concession of -a representative body. The
next piece of ief umation was a striking one. In the
middle of the session, in the course of the debate on this
en cation, the Government stated that though delay
mitela be fatal to the measure, still as the House was
ilia sufficiently acquainted with the subject, had not
re )d, in short, the dispatches, they had made up their
mild to delay the Bill until fresh information should be
laid before Parliament. That information was waited
for with great anxiety; but when it came it turd out
to be nothing more than a collection of old dispatches
from governors. There was only one new piece in it,
nod that was in such a fragmentary form—so filled with
asterisks—as to be almost useless. What the object cf
the Government could be in publishing a collection of
aid dispatches as fresh information, unless it was to
blind the House, he (Mr. Adderley) could not possibly
conceive. While that meagre information was all that
the Government allowed the House, there was a con-
-
eiderable deal of information on the subject from other
quarter,. Judge Terry, who was in this country, and
who aas an individual of great authority, said the colo-
nists desired to have a constitution with the three
estates separate. Mr. Speaker Nicholson had also
written from the colony to this country, expres-
sing in very strong terms the same opinion ; and
Dr. Lang's pamphlet was equally strong on the
subject. Then there was Mr. Lowe 's resolu-
tion before the Legislative Council of New
South Wales, while the leading journals of the colony
agreed, in commenting on that resolution, that the only
thing wanting was a second chamber. The Noble Lord
had, no doubt, presented a petition of an opposite ten-
dency before the recess, but cf the hundred signatures
appended to it, there were not, perhaps, twelve who lad
ever been in New South Wales, the remainder being
colonial aeents or individuals indirectly connected with
the colony. The language of that petition, however, be-
trayed its origin—it was altogether official in its form.
But the subscribers expressed themselves satisfied with
the proposition of the Government; how could they
answer for the colonists? He would take the name of
one at aandon—Mr. Enderby, for instance—Mr. En-
derby was in the South Sea whale fishery, and his ships
might, no doubt, have touched at New South Wales;
but that this circumstance should give him a
right to know the opinions of the colonists
batter than he (Mr. Adderley) had the means
knowing.in London, he could not for a moment
admit. Theta however, was the whole amount of
information given by the Government on the subject, and
the House was ea be called upon on their :pre dixit to
adopt the plan on the ground that it was satisfactory to
the people of New South Wales. He (Mr. Adderley)
had always felt perfectly certain that the measure could
not be carried-ahe did not mean through the House, be-
cause he believed the Government could carry any mea-
sure at this moment—but carried out in the colonies.
He felt it, because it was impossible of execution; and
he had full confidence that the House had only to wait
a few days for favourable breezes from the colonies, and
ire would be found to be right. News from New South
Wales and New Zealand were hourly expected, but news
from Van Diemen's Land bad arrived, and he was
warranted in stating that the news fully bore
cut his predictions. It appeared clear to him
that Sir William Denison would decline to
carry the measure into execution in the colony
of which he was governor—at least such, as far as he
Lould infer, were the tenor of big opinions; and it would
not be the first time that a colonial governor had re-
fused in the same manner. The Government had been
refused by the Governor of New Zealand, who said it
would involve the loss of the colony if he attempted to
carry out the abortion of a constitution which Lai been
passed for it; and doubtless the other governors would
eo likewise. He called on the Government, therefore,
te acknowledge at once that this was the last of a series
f failures is making constitutions for the colonies, and
'hat It was the final attempt of Lord Grey to concoct
an omnibus constitution, which should sweep down half
ade s-n colonial constitutions at a time. He thought
:fiat every man should discard the infamous proposition
that, because a vicious constitution was given to one co-
lony it should be given to all colonies in the same latitude.
It would be a double injustice in this case, which he hoped
the House would never sanction. Another proposition
which the House should lay aside for ever was, that two
such colonies as New South Wales and Van Diemen's
Land were so completely connected together, that the
arguments in support of the proposition of a constitu-
:ion fir one should serve equally well for the other.
The two constitutions presented themselves under two
eiffeieat aspects--the one as a basis constitu-
ti re the other as offering the means for in-
determina'e and unlimited adaptation to the
wants of the colonies. The question at issue
was not so nmeh a single chamber versus a double, as
the adoption of the central or municipal principle in
reef eat or c( lonia] government. The central principle
was that under which the mother country restrained the
power is her can hands, sad made the Colonial-office,
with its vete, its patrcnage, its books, its useless dit-
• patches, and its dilettnite legislation, the be-all and end-
all of the colonies. The municipal principle was that
=under which the colonists, by the aid of the repre-
sentative system, governed themselves in all local
natters. A singie or double Chamber was only
the Shibbole VI between these principles. The
Honourable Member then quoted De Lolme to show
that this writr-ir laid it down as an undeniable proposi-
tion Chet the solidity of the English Constitution was
owing to the division
rent
legislation of England into two
estates. The Government had suggested that there was
no union among the colonial reformers in that House on
the subject of the composition of an upper chamber; but
that was not dse fact. There was no disagreement on
the great point that there should be two chambers, and
chat each estate should be separate and independent, be
cause they desired to establish a Conservative element in
the constitution. To this proposition the Government
was perfectly antagonistic; and he (Mr. Adderley) could
nit but feel surprise that the men who some twenty years
ago convulsed the country because a peer or two had the
nomination to a few seats in Parliament, should now pro-
pose of their own accord a constitution for the colonies
of this country, by which 33 per cent, of the representa-
tives of these colonies would be nominated by the Crown.
—(Hear.) Comparing the proposition of the Govern-
ment with that of the Hon. Baronet the Member for
Southwark, he could not for a moment hesitate which to
choose, if a choice were imperative. The latter was a
statesmanlike plan—the former was a futile piece of
legislation.
Lord J. RUSSELL would not have addressed the
Ilouse at that period of the evening if the Hon. Gentle-
man had not questioned the information supplied by the
Government. That isefstermation consisted of dispatches
from governors of the Monies and other persons in pos-
session of the means of knowing the facts. The infor-
mation of the lion. Gentleman a as deferred until favour-
able breezes, though there could be no doubt the breezes
that came to him came not from the colonies, but from
the Jerusalem Coffee-house.—(Laughter.) The House
would remember that in Sir H. Young's dispatch it was
stated that a meeting of colonists at Adelaide was to
take place the following Friday on the subject of the
constitution. By journals that had come to hand since
then, it appeared that this meeting did take place in the
Exchange; that there were 2,000 persons present, includ.
lag those coming and going; and that there were railer
less than from 1,200 to T MOO
r.i,h‘
individualsis in the great
• room. At that meeting
Fisher moved the first
resolution after reading aclause of thehßul—perhaps that
speech then under discussion—and his s
was to the effect
that one chamber was sufficient foprtehe present wants of
the colony, and that a second chamber composed of m•
minees of the Crown, appointed for life,an desired.—
(Hear, hear.) He then spoke in its favonr in a style
which offered a strong contrast to the violence and tt e
invective in which the Hon. Gentleman and the lion,
Baronet had indulged against the Government and the
Colonial- office of this country. The resolution went on
to say, " That the Bill laid Wore Parliament, in so far
as it re'absd to South Adelaide, met the wants and
wishes of the colonists; and that the concession of a re-
presentative Government was to be regarded as a wise
and liberal measure." It concluded by stating that thanks
were due to Lord Grey, Mr. Hawes—(A laugh)—Lord
J. Russell, and Mr. Labouchere. for introducing and to
those Members of the House of Commons who had given
it their support. Tho Honourable Gentleman wanted
the opinions of the people of the colonies. Here was
the opinion of a great public meeting, and it was in
favour' of the proposition of the Government.—
(Hear, hear.) The House es as already in pOssersfeet of
q,e opinions of the Governor and the Legislative Council
nn tke subject, and yet the Honourable Gentleman main-
tained that the coloniits were severely oppressed by the
Bill. As to the proposition of a single or double
chamber, he (Lord J. Russell) was quite surprised to
herr the lion. Gentleman say it was a secondary consi-
deration whether the latter should be compossd of nomi-
nees for life or of elected Mw In the opinion of
her Majesty's Government there was
s the greatest &fre-
roue bets een the two prieciptes, from
the understood from
the lion. Baronet that it was made an open Pe question with
the) Colonial ReformßeformA:sociation whenthertleechamber
should be composed of the nominees of
elected for lif or otherwise, or whether
theytb
fleeted and' represent the people of the can,n y He
owned ha 'thought that a most important distinction. but
he would state, in a few words, his objections to either
of those propositions. If, instead of hying nominees of
the Crc wn in the proportion of omatliird in a chamber,
where.' if the opinian of the representatives was
very decided, it would be enabled completely to
overwhelm them, those eight or nine persons were
to sitt in a sepal it!e character, and control altogether and
put an absolute veto on the legislative measures of
tho:representative assembly, he believed the intro.
ducti:on of such a proposition would cause great dissatis-
faction in ;the colony, and he was not, therefore, disposed
to enter Ain it. Then they had the other proposition of