The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-08 00:00:00

Government should be extended, although he himself was
still a member of the old Church. —( A laugh. )
The effect of the measure would be to divide the people of
Scotland, and to create dissensions amongst them, upon that
very theme, the national religion, upon which they' been so
mach united. He supported the amendment.—( Hear. )
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was surprised that the Hon. Gen-
tleman who had just sat down could say that the Bill was
brought in with objects which had not been avowed. The
Hon. Gentleman ought at least to give his grounds for
that statement.—( Hear, hear.) The principle of the measure
was not Erastian—it was a principle which had been always
upheld in the best times of the Scotch Church. It had
been said that a great secession had lately taken place, and
as the debate proceeded the number of the seceders seemed
to have gradually increased. The Right Hon. Member for
Perth had stated them at 800,000. The Hon. Member for
Renfrew had increased them to a million, and had added that
only a small amount was left in Scotland attached to the Esta-
blished Church. To that statement he demurred. Although
150 churches had been vacated, they had experienced no diffi-
culty in providing suitable ministers—( Opposition cheers)—ho
meant miuieters who had been received by their flocks without
objection, and who were every way qualified for their office.
It was only just to the Establishment that every facility should
be given for its extension in large districts, by the subdivison
of parishes. In the Highland districts, forty parishes had
been erected by the munificence of Parliament, in which the
ministers were not able to exercise their full rights. The
present Bill wouuld restore them their rights. NVith regard
to the right given to heriters to burden their lands for the
endowment of churches, that right could only be exercised by
the authority of a court of law, which could entertain no
1 application Head c
a purpose except from a majority of the
heriters. Hadsu the Members. for Perth
and Renfrew continued Members of the Establishment,
from which they had seceded, not on a point of doctrine, but of
discipline only, they would have supported a me.esure like the
present, and-why should they now oppose a mcasure for the
extension of that Church in the doctrines of which they be-
lieved ? This brought to his mind another inconsistency on
the part of the Right llon. Member for Perth. :it was scarcely
a fortnight since that Right Hon. Gentleman brought forward
a motion for the abolition of subscription of tests in the Scottish
Universities, and yet last night he was found in, the course of
the debate advoca-ing the continuance of tests. (Cheers from
the Ministerial side of the House, and calls of " 'Order, order,"
" Chair, chair," from Mr. F. Maple.) He saw how sore the
point was with the Right Hon Gentleman wiles appealed to
the Chair, because he (Sir J. Graham) had alluded to a for-
mer debate. He would bow at once in submission to the
Chair, but he must be permitted to observe, in passing, that it
was with sorrow he observed how sadly and how speedily the
bitterness of religious dissent had operated oxa the mind of
the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers.) His Right Hon.
Friend at the head of the Government. had given a
pledge that every facility should be given to ithe Established
Church of Scotland for the extension of its doctrines. This
Bill was the redemption of that pledge. It was upon the prin-
ciple of that Bill that they were now called upon to decide. The
details might be considered in Committee, but, mntil the House
had decided to the contrary, he never could bektieve that they
would reject the principle of such a measure.—(Clicers.)
Mr. P. M. STEWART explained. He had stated that the
Free Church amounted to nearly a million. 1& denied that he
had designated the Established Church as a remnant ; what he
had said was, that the Free Church was the Church of the ma-
jority, and the Established Church the Church of the law and
the minority.
Sir J. GRAHAM had to apologise to the Hon. Member
for Renfrew. It was the Hon. Member for St. Andrews who
designated the Established Church as a remnant.
At the conclusion of Sir J. Graham's explanation the King
of Saxony quitted the House. J
Mr. FORBES supported the Bill.
After a few ords from Mr. SMOLLETT,
The house divided, when there appeared--
For the motion ..
For the amendment .. 59
Majority
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
On clause 1 being read,
Mr. E. ELLICE opposed the clause, on the grounds that it
interfered with private right.
The LORD ADVOCATE of Scotland supported the clause.
Sir. HUME said this clause contained a very important al-
teration in the present law, and he did not think the Right
Hon. Gentleman had adduced any just reasons for making
such a change. He had no objections to the endowment of
churches, but he was decidedly opposed to members of other
persuasions being obliged to pay for the sustainment of doc-
trines from which they differed. The House should not take
the Right Hon. Gentleman's ipse digit as to the necessity for
so important an alteration.
Sir GEORGE CLERK said, the first duty of the Legis-
lature was to provide religious instruction for the rapidly in-
creasing population, and the present Bill was insufficient for
that purpose.
Mr. FOX MAULE opposed the clause. He had cer-
tainly prepared a similar Bill to the present one in 1835,
but it differed in this respect, that he proposed that the pa-
rishes should be divided according to the majority of num-
bers ; whereas the Bill of the Government proposed to make
the division according to the majority of interest. Under
these circumstances, he must oppose the clause. The Right
Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home Department, had
charged him (Mr. F. Maule) with inconsistency. Now, he
thought the last person to make such a charge ought to be
the Right Hon. Baronet himself.—( Hear, hear.) The man
who wrote " Corn and Currency" and who now sat as the
supporter of the agricultural interest, ought to be very cau-
tious in charging another with inconsistency.—( Hear, hear. )
In a celebrated caricature publication of the day, the Right
Hon. Baronet was represented as receiving a deputation from
the distressed thimble-riggers.—(Laughter.) One of these
thimble-riggers was made to ask the Right Hon. Baronet if
he had any objection to allow the game of round-about ? and
the Right lion. Gentleman replied, " Oh, no, for I have pa-
tronised round-about all my life."—( Great laughter, in which
Sir James Graham joined.) The Right Hon. l'aronet
should be careful how he made a charge of inconsistency
against another.—( Hear )
Mr. FORBES supported the clause. This Bill was intended
to supply the spiritual wants of the poor, and as such he sup-
ported it.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, that however he and the
Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite might differ with respect to
many points, at all events they were agreed as to the principle
of the clause, which, in point of fact, was founded on the doc-
trine laid down by Pr. Chalmers himself. The Right Hon.
Gentleman was ready in the year 1835 to go a great deal
further than the present Bill proposed to do. The whole
question really resolved itself into this—either conformity with,
or dissent from the Established Church of Scotland.
Mr. FOX MAULE denied that they were then discussing
the principle of the Bill.
Mr. COLQUHOUN defended the clause.
Mr. HUME was quite willing to support any measure for
providing religious accommodation for the people; but he was
convinced that their physical wants were the great causes of the
crimes. Let the Legislature turn its attention to the removal
of these, and there would be little occasion for interference in
other matters

COLQUHOUN would not deny that an improvement
of their physical condition would tend to improve their morals,
but he did not think that was an argument against religious
improvement.
Mr. P. M. STEWART considered the Bill perfectly use-
less, and wondered how it got into the House.—(A laugh. )
After a desultory conversation, strangers were ordered to
withdraw. The Committee then divided, when the numbers
were—

For the clause
52
Against it 2O
Majority
Clause 4 was agreed to, alter a short discussion
Clause 5 was agreed to, with a few verbal amendments.
Clause 6 was agreed to, with a few verbal amendments.
Clause 7 was agreed to.
On clause 8 being proposed, which enables persons who
have life interests to give four acres for sites for glebes,
Mr. F. MAULE said he should object to the clause. He
thought it most objectionable that those who had only life in-
terests should have the power of burdening the property of
those who were to come after them, by leaving four acres for
sites. He thought that an acre and a half would be quite
sufficient.

Mr. WALLACE would also oppose the clause.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee
divided, when there appeared—
For the clause .....
Against it
Majority for the clause —36
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 9 being proposed,
Mr. FOX MAULE said, that unless the Right Honour-
able Gentleman, the Lord Advocate, consented to extend
this clause to all churches, he should avail himself of all the
forms of the House in opposing it. This clause was similar
•to the last, but it applied to endowments generally, and was
therefore far more extensive.
Sir E. COLEBROOKE said he objected to the whole Bill,
because it was conceived in the narrowest spirit with respect
to the present religious state of Scotland.
Mr. F. MAULE proposed an amendment, providing that
heirs entail should have a voice in making the endowments.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. BOUVERIE said he should oppose the clause, unless
it ware extended to all religious denominations.
The suggestion not being agreed to, strangers were ordered
to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared—
For the clause
Against it .
Majority for the clause ......... —4l
The clause was ►hen agreed to.
On clause 10 being proposed,
Mr. ELLICE, jun., said he should oppose the clause, be-
cause it was in fact an additional endowment of the Church
of Scotland.

After some conversation, the clause was carried without a
division.

The remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the House
resumed. The report was ordered to be received on Monday.
SALMON FISHERIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The Salmon Fisheries (Scotland) Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed on Friday next.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter to Ten o'clock.

' ROYAL INFIRMARY FOR CHlLDREN.—Yesterday the
anniversary festival of the Royal Infirmary in Waterloo-
bridge-road, established in 1816, for the purpose of affording
gratuitous medical aid to the poor of the metropolis, took
place at the London Tavern. Soon after six o'clock about 80
of the leading patrons and supporters of the institution sat
down to a plentiful dinner—the Right Hon. the Earl of
Arundel and Surrey, M.P., iu the chair; we also observed
Lord Lyttelton. Mr. E. Antrobus, M.P., Mr. IL Kemble,
M.P., Major Brereton, Mr. A. K. Barclay, &c., at the
head table. After the removal of the cloth, the customary
routine of loyal and appropriate toasts were given, and,
in the course of the evening, subscriptions and donations
amounting to 2851. were handed over to the treasurer,
Mr. A. K. Barclay. The annual subscription of 21/. from
her Majesty, and 101. from the Queen Dowager, were like-
wise announced by the secretary, who made a gratifying
statement relative to the funds of the Society, which it ap-
peared had been sufficiently extended to enable the Com-
mittee to liquidate a heavy building debt, exceeding 2,0001.,
although the necessity of increased support was strongly
urged upon the meeting, the period having arrived for carry-
ing out the proposition of the founders of the charity, by
opening the wards for in-patients, and by the delivery of
clinical lectures on the most important infantile disorders.
Mr. W. C. Dendy, one of the medical staff, in acknowledging
the compliment paid that body, alluded to the circumstance
of medical aid being now afforded, by means of this institu-
tion, to the sick parent of the suckling child, whereby organic
disease in the latter, in many instances, is obviated.. He
trusted the importance of this new feature in their operations
would not be underrated, although it may have been the
cause of additional expenditure. Mr. Dendy also drew their
attention to the increased benefits now afforded the infant
patients by their removal from the unwholesome atmosphere
which surrounded the wretched homes of the poor, and which
originated much of the disease prevalent amongst them. The
Noble Chairman did not get through the duties of his office
till a late hour ; the ordinary intervals occurring in the pro-
ceedings of the evening having been agreeably extended by
the glee and solo singing of Messrs. H. Phillips, Hawkins,
T. Cooke, and Hatton, under; the direction of Mr. Hawes,
whose arrangements gave general satisfaction.