The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNI NG, MARCH 19, 1844.

Lord ; but he could not help referring to the argument I labour even to eight. Was the Hon. Gentleman willing
of his Right Hon. Friend that a blow was about to be to bring in a Bill for the repeal of that Act ?
struck at our manufactures which would affect the profits Mr. HINDLEY—I objected to it.
of the manufacturer and the wages of the labourer. It Sir R. PEEL—It would be very gratifying to the
was, he thought, a remarkable circumstance that so manufacturers to be told that the Hon. Gentleman had
manufacturers should petition for that which, according opposed the wish of both Houses of Parliament.—(A
to the Right Hon. Gentleman, would be so injurious to laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman said that, if the hours of
their interests. To escape from the pressure of this ' labour were restricted, the wages of labour must be in-
argument, his Right Hon. Friend threw himself back creased. Why, surely that was the natural conse-
upon a distinction. He said that the petitions in favour quence of restriction. The manufacturer might in-
of the proposal of the Noble Lord represented only the crease his wages—but for how long a period?—(Loud
woollen manufactures; they did not represent cotton and cries of "Hear, hear.") When they entered into
other manufactures, which were produced by a finer and competition with a foreign rival, would not the
more costly machinery. Amongst the three hundred increased expense of manufacture operate against
manufacturers who petitioned in favour of the measure them, and give a new stimulus to the foreigner?
of his Noble Friend, there were one hundred engaged The fact was that the material would not be increased
in the manufacture of the finer sorts, which required the in price, and he would come into competition with the
most costly materials.—(Hear, hear.) He had asked a manufacturers of this country while the House would
friend, who sat now within two of him, and who repre- have raised the price of manufactures by their inter-
sented a district in which only the finest sorts were ference with labour.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentle-
manufactured, what did they do in his place? and his man had described the master manufacturers as being in-
answer was, that they had always limited the time of clined to reduce the wages of their workmen. That might
work to ten hours a-day.—(Hear, hear.) Thiswasa proof be so, but he did not believe such was the case; but sup-
that the limitation proposed could be effected without in- posing it to be so could it fur one moment be supposed
juring the capitalits, without suffering to the labourer, and that for ten hours' labour as much wages would be given
with benefit to both.—(Hear.) His Right Hon. Friend as for twelve ?—(Hear, hear.) It was repugnant to
(Sir J. Graham) had referred to the calculations of Mr. common sense to suppose snch a thing.—(Hear, hear.)
Horner as proofs against the Bill. Mr. Horner was an There could be no doubt that the great sufferers, it
inspector, of very great intelligence and respectability. the present proposed measure was to pass, would be
But he (Mr. Colquhoun) had inquired of an inspector, the workmen, who would have to give a less
of equal respectability with Mr. Homer, and was as- amount of labour than before. If he thought that that
sured that the calculations of that gentleman were er- would add to the comfort of the workmen, he would at
roneous.—(Hear, hear.) That was an authority quite once adopt it.—(Hear, hear.) But when he heard the
equal to that which his Right Hon. Friend relied on, account given by the Hon. Member fur Durham of the
and he (Sir J. Graham) had, therefore, not made out state of the workmen, when he stated that they were
his case. 'l* operatives were not unaware of what the getting 931. a year, he felt bound to pause before he
effeetsig the measure would be upon themselves; and consented to a measure that would mulct them of a
they said that they preferred to have no more wages great part of the wages they now received.—(Hear,
than 744 or 79/. a year, with which they would enjoy hear.) Then it was said that they ought to separate
some oily relaxation, and preserve the bloom and vi- the consideration of the comforts of the people from
vacity of their children, to 93/. a year with the long pecuniary gain. How, he would ask, could that be
hours and intolerable toil.—(Hear, hear.) They said done ?—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible. It was tried
that they had rather do without those simple luxuries in Scotland, and what was the result? Why, he
of which the Hon. Member for Durham spoke, than should never forget the state of Paisley some
continue thenastem of slavery which caused paleness years ago, when no less than 50,000 persons
and deformity in the child, and premature decrepitude were out of employ there.— (Hear, hear.) If his
and old age in the adult. When he (Mr. Colquhoun) wishes could prevail he would have women now working
formerly opposed this measure, he had not that eight hours a day, but wishes could not prevail on this
experience which now compelled him to change his question. It must be looked to in a commercial point of
mind. His Noble Friend did not propose to bring the view. It was impossible to say that they could disregard
Bill at once into operation, but by a safe and sound commerce and consider humanity alone. If ten hours
gradation, so as to enable them to stop its progress if it was the natural amount of labour, that might be true
were found to work disadvantageously.—(Hear.) His with a certain class of agricultural labourers, because at
Right Hun: Friend had told the House that he was certain periods of the year women could not work more
willing to prohibit the labour of women of any age in than ten hours a day on account of the night coming on.
any employment more than twelve hours a day. But (Hear, bear.) He was sure that it was not for the ad-
that enactment took place in factories (as we under- vantage of the manufacturer or the working man that a
stood) in the year 1833, and it had not been found to Ten Hours' Bill should be passed. Why such a measure
produce the evils which were professed to be appre- would impose an income. tax of 15 per cent. on labour,
hended from it. He (Mr. C.) found that in all depart- and it was his firm belief that the workmen themselves
ments of agricultural labour, the hours of work were cherished a hope the measure would not pass into a law.
limited to ten a day, and that was found to be as much He thought there never was an impression more erronc-
as the human frame could support. He was satisfied ous than that by which the supporters of the Noble Lord
by his own experience and observation, as well as by were actuated. He would prove that there were other
the sound reasoning and humanity by which this Bill great manufacturing branches which required legislative
was supported, of the justice of the measure, and he restrictions quite as much as those contemplated by the
would give it his cordial support.—(Hear, hear.) present measure. He asked why, if a really tangible
Mr. FIELDEN then rose, and for some minutes ad- case was proved to exist, he should not correct it
dressed the Committee in a tone utterly inaudible, amidst because another existed ? He was sure that if he cor-
He rected the evils existing in one branch of labour he would
repeated cries of " Speak up, speak up."
was understood to say, that he had no fear do harm if he left untouched any other. It had been said
that the measure would disturb manufactures. The im-
that after he had imposed restrictions on one description
pression upon his own mind was that the factories could of labour, he was bound to do the same with re
L
not go on with twelve hours a day. If they looked back speet to others, or he should give a premium to
to the last ten years, how many factories would they those who were excepted, and also that he would disturb
find had been stopped altogether for a month in that pe-
capital. What were those descriptions of employment
riod, and how many more had worked only half hours ?
which he left untouched ? The agricultural labourers.
—(Hear.) Would it not be better to equalise the dis-
It was said he could not touch them. It was true if he
tribution of labour, and to go on regularly with the short could control those matters he would most willingly
hours as they were called, but which were quite as long prohibit the employment of women in many of the agri-
as the people could work without injuring themselves
cultural occupations in which they were at present em-
and their families?—(Hear, hear.) But, in fact, this was ployed—where women were employed working for eight
made a question of money against mercy, The sufferings
or ten hours with wet raiment and without shelter, he
would be disposed, provided he could do so without in-
of the people were made a secondary consideration.—
jurirsg any other interest, to interfere legislatively. Now,
(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet told them that it
he was about to leave untouched, according to Hon.
was wrong to legislate on this question. What ! was it
Gentlemen opposite, all the other manufacturing inte-
wrong to legislate for the protection of life and limb, and
rests. He should refer to the manufacture of earthenware,
property ?—(Cheers.) They expressed sympathy with
the poor people, but they told them at the same time of calico, hosiery, rope-twisting, but, above all, dress-
that they could do nothing for them—(Hear)—and con- making—of all those he should say that he was not going
tinned to keep them in the abject slavery which was to touch one. He was going to leave to the masters
destroying the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) the employment of women and children in what manner
They were bringing up a race of human beings, they pleased. He thought if Hon. Gentlemen carefully
whom, by-and-bye, the would not be able to read the Report of the Commissioners, they would con-
govern. The people felt that they received no mil- elude that, by any undue restrictions, so far as the
pathy from the Legislature. They sucked in hatred for cotton-manufacturers are concerned, they would
the Legislature with their mother's milk—they saw it be giving a premium to over-employment in
in her eyes—they heard it from her lips. He told them other branches of manufactures. In that Report
that he was not for a Ten Hours' Bill—he was for an it was stated that in a great number of the dn.-
Eight Hours' Bill.—(Cheers.) The manufacturing corn- ferent manufactures which were not included in
munity would never be what it ought to be until the this Bill, almost the whole employed were women and
hours were reduced to that.—(Hear, hear.) It had been children. It appeared from the Report, that in the ma-
asked, would they not go to some other employment ? nufacture of metal wares women and children were em-
What ! were. there not domestic employments ? Was ployed to a great extent. In the manufacture of screws
there not the education of their children ?—(Hear, hear.) alone, it appeared that the proportion of females em-
Twelve hours were too much for adult or child. (The ployed far exceeded that of the males. In one screw
Hon. Gentlemen then proceeded to refer to a measure manufactory there were only 50 males employed, while
for abridging labour in factories, introduced by the late there were 300 females. In the chain manufactories
Sir Robert Peel, and he was understood to infer from there were ten times as many girls employed as there
it that Sir Robert was in favour of eight hours ; but were men. He alluded to those Reports to show the
from the lowness of the Hon. Gentleman's tone we extreme difficulty there was in legislating upon this
could guess but vaguely at the tenour of his observations.) subject, for if they said that all should be subject
He held in his hand a petition signed, in July last, by to the same law, then he would advise them
thirty-two delegates of the working menemployed in to contemplate the results. Let them look
the mills and manufactories for thirty miles round Man- to other manufactories where females were employed—
chester, and a meeting for a similar purpose had, he be- let them take calico. In that branch there were by far
lieved, been recently held at Bury. These thirty-four more females employed than men. In the earthenware
delegates, representing this mass of human industry, manufactories a vast number of children were employed,
had unanimously agreed to submit to that House that who were compelled, in the carriage of the plates and
nothing would be efficient or satisfactory unless they saucers to and from the furnace, to undergo a tempera-
prohibited working for a longer period than ten hours tore of nearly 143 degrees, and (according to the Re-
-)er day for five days in the week, and eight hours for port) the instances were rare in which the regular hours
1
itee Saturday. They had further agreed that no child of work were less than twelve hours nominally, but some-
should be employed until it had completed its tenth times it exceeded sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen hours
year. These delegates had determined that until these —(Hear, hear)—and he was called on to restrain labour
propositions became the law of the land, there could be in cotton manufactories alone, while calico and the various
no satisfactory solution of this question. Now, there others were to be left untouched ! He could not have
was the opinion of the working people upon this ques- credited it, without the strongest proof of its accuracy,
-Lion. They understood the subject as well as any Hon. that human nature could undergo such toil as that de-
Member of that House ; and as to what had been said scribed in the evidence given in that report. One per-
about a reduction of wages consequent upon a reduction son, named Thomas Whitbread, stated that on a Wed-
of the hours of labour, they were willing to take the nesday he began to work between eight and nine o'clock,
risk of that.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Dur- and never stopped until Saturday. A boy who assisted
ham had said a great deal about this question of wages, him, from excessive fatigue, became almost insensible, and
and had brought forward a great heap of calculations of to enable him to carry on his work, he tied him to a post.
his own, but all his statements amounted to nothing—
The Right Hon. Baronet then read another extract
all he had said was delusion.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) from the evidence of a man employed in a cotton print
Not merely the operatives of Rochdale, Manchester, and ing-works, who, having worked from six in the morn-
Oldham, but many of the largest mill-owners, men of ing till nine at night, was asked by the foreman of the
probity, and property, and talent, were now strongly hi works if he could not return to work again at twelve.
favour of a Ten Hours' Bill. Nearly all of them were Now, here was a case (continued the Right Hon.
Baronet) in which the hours of work were from six
anxious for it, and very many of them had signed a
o'clock till nine, and yet the man was asked to come
document to that effect.—(Hear, hear.) Aye, and
the number who had thus signed it were to be again at twelve at night," thus allowing him only three
fendthe names of Mr. Bright, en., and Mr. Bright, hours' interval for repose. The man said, " I did not
-
jun., the father and the brother of the Hon. Member for go, because I considered it rather unfeeling of them to
Durham, but he supposed the last-named gentleman expect me, as my child had worked with me all these
had latterly become more enlightened than his two es- hours, and he was only eleven years old." Now let them
teemed and talented relatives. The Hon. Gentleman read the accounts of the lace manufactory; let them go
concluded his speech, which throughout by far the from the lace manufactory to the accounts of the hosiery
t
greater portion of it was quite inaudible in the gallery,rade ; but, above all, let them read the accounts of the
by stating (as we understood) that he would suppordress-makers and milliners who were employed in this
t,
she motion of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Ashley). very town—(Hear, hear)—and then let him ask, was it
right to subject to such new and peculiar restrictions the
Or R. PEEL said he thought the Committee would labour in factories, and leave untouched all other de-
nips him credit for disinterestedness in opposine his Hop. partments of labour in which the female child and the
wet 'Learned Friend. No personal or party interest adult woman were frequently employed fourteen, fifteen,
could be attributed to the Government in the course and sixteen hours a-day ?—(Loud cheers.) If they were
they were about to take. It was impossible not to see' prepared to legislate for them—(Renewed cheers)—they
in the progress of this debate, that the Government would then be prepared to legislate on the labour in
were opposing those who generally supported them, and factories. They must not legis'ate for factory labour
in whose principles they generally coincided, and that only, but for all the labour in this country that came
they were supported by Hon. Members who on most within the same principle. (Hear, hear.) They
occasions opposed them. The first duty of the Govern- were not about to legislate on the labour that at-
nient was to overcome the danger of gaining parts- sup- fected only women) and children, but to provide
port. or conciliating temporary popular favour by regulations which should apply to children, that
acquiescing in the propositionwhich they conscientiously should apply to adults, in respect of every kind
believed to be injurious to the permanent interest of the of labour where they might . think it more severe
country. And influenced by that motive, and that than the human frame ought justly to undergo.
alone, they must now oppose the proposition of the That principle he certainly could understand. If, then.
Noble Lord. There were two propositions before the this were the commencement of that work, he could
House—a proposition made by the Government, which not make an objection to it as being an unjust inter-
imposed a restriction on the labour of children, gave ference with a peculiar class of labour. But if, as it
anew facilities for those who had not an opportunity of now seemed to be, their impression, and perhaps a just
iltitigecting themselves, which arrested the evil where it
wes. found of the employment of female mid- one, that they were imposing these restrictions upon
labour, phi- adult labour, they would engender the necessity of tur-
bine" the employment of females in factories for mor
° ther restrictions applicable to all labour—(Hear, hear)
than twelve hours a day, but imposed no
-an the labour of adults, finding twelve hours to restrictionsbe —and he saw not why they should not extend these
no
their general time of labour.
aiTlhe. counter proposition restrictions to agricultural labour.—(Loud cheers.)
to'ahat was a restriction n • Before he adopted a principle which necessarily led to
y imposed on the la-
hour of females and c_hildreonm„itibut practically preventing such extensive consequences, namely, invariableand
an
the labour of male adults for longer • almost universal interference with labour in this country
hours. The Hon. Gentleman periods than twelve
i who spoke. last declared —before he adopted this principle, although he admitted
that the Noble Lord had not based his proposition that an universality of application was not inconsistent
upon principle—he admitted thpeurpporsoepsriefty of re- with justice, as showing no preference of one &scrip-
straining female labour for the
aeddducati on tion of labour to another, yet, foreseeing that he
and recreation ; but the Hon. Gentleman was involving himself in a duty he should never
iglit hours would have been more in accordanceoathat be able satisfactorily to perform— seeing that
-meth principle. He said that poets and philos although it was possible perhaps to deal with the labour
phees had divided the day into three compart-- of factories, yet where he was called on to enter the pri-
merits of eight hours each, eight for labour rate shops, and the private houses, and to impose obli-
night for sleep, and eight for recreation ; and he cor: gations upon every individual, as to the degree of labour
Teased he did not see that the Noble Lord acted upon which he should impose, not upon 300 or 400 children,
any
would apply
principle. The Noble Lord's proposition
should 19.0 n every individual, as to the degree of labour lie
'NJ" apply to cotton, woollen, flax, and silk manufac- whollimtth impose
upon the members of his family
wiarsess.
xFt or the last forty years the general rule of labour difficult,e employe—if he was to be involved in such a
i y-nine hours a week that was the number of and, as he thought such a perilous enterprise—
hours
(Cheers)—if he was to tolerated by the law, and now it was demanded duty to prescribe by legislation, understand that it would be his
abut the hours of labour should' be lessened.
-..k.tr. HINDLEY—The number steam-engine should work, but to inculcate e
of hours during which. vete establishment, and every private toeve every pri-
the operatives are at present family, the
employed in the factories duty of humanity by legislation---then
are sixty-nine. he thought
he should be involved in a task
Sir IL PEEL—I said sixty-nine h above all
ours. That was human strength, and full, as he believed, of individual
'twelve hours a day for five days in then week,
.ancLnine injustice.—(Cheers.) His wishes and feelings would be
hours on Saturday. Now the proposition of the Noble as much in concurrence with effecting that object, as
Lord was to limit the number of hours to fifty-nine ; those of any man ; he should like to see the father more
and this restriction was to apply to the four great proud of the education, the instruction, and moral train-
braehes of domestic industry—cotton,woollens, a linens, ing of his child, than anxious to increase his earnings
and sm?k. Let them take the foreign trade of the
country by his labour. Could he effect that by law ? If they
from the last returns. The value of British produce and once undertook it, they must not be deterred by dial-
-manufactures exported last year amounted t0p44,500e0
suppose
the
ma/. culty in individual cases. The more he extended legis-
sterling. What proportion did theyif he went from factories to the potteries, from
nufactures of cotton bore to this 44,000,0001.? Cotton ttititl2ll' teries to the manufacturing of hosiery, and from
manufactures, Including yarns, amounted to 23,500,0001. ; thee hosiery trade to the lace manufactories—by that
linen, 4,500,0001., and woollens 7,600,000/., making a which incomplete, he should give a fresh encou-
total of 35,000,000/. ? What would be the effect of the rarement to exc
restrictions proposed by the Noble Lord ? There were of great establijimasetvnetslabur. It was not the magnitude
only. they had to contend with ; i
about 300 working days in the year. Five days in the they carried out the • principle fully and fairly, they must
cctipation that was
sent the labour was to be two hours less than at pre- descend to all the details of daily • ?
occupation?
sent ; 2.50 of the 300 days the labour was to be reduced admitted. The principle of a die interference with
What,
by two hosurs, or 500 hours in the course of the year. labour involved that question. then, would be
Five hundred hours were equivalent to seven weeks. the effect on the general emploY meut of the country
Now only think of the cotton mills and woollen factories from such interference? It was pregnant with most
of this country being idle for seven weeks in the year— important consequences. After that legislation should
seven weeks lea's labour than was at present performed ! have been carried into effect, see what other conse-
How would at.'s answer with their foreign rival ? quences must follow. He believed that upon the whole
Could they proscribe to him to work seven they had attempted as much of legislation with these
weeks less in -the rar ? The Honourable Gentleman great branches of manufactures as it was safe and wise
said that they hac, done more harm to manufacturers Ito attempt for the welfare of the country and the
by allowing h' "
mac me,y to be exported, than they pos- manufactures, but above all for the interests
sibly could l , litaii,log the number of the bolo's of and the comfort of the working classes, lie

MN