The Sun.
London, England, 1844-01-24 00:00:00

IRELAND,

THE STATE TRIALS.
40 "SEVENTH DAY-BY EXPRESS.

(FROM OUR OWN REPORTERS.)
DUBLIN, MONDAY, JAN. 22.

COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH.

THE QUEEN V. DANIEL O'CONNELL AND OTHERS.
Shortly after ten o'clock, the Chief Justice, accompanied by
Mr. Justice Crampton and Mr. Justice Perrin, took their
seats upoq.ihe bench.
Thneytt'iy and traversers having answered to their names,
• 'The Chief Justice observed that Mr. Justice Burton was
prevented by a severe cold from coming down to Court.
Mr. Hatchell, Q. C., said, in consequence of what had
ftllen from his Lordship, he had to state, on behalf of the
traversers, that he and the counsel engaged with him objected
t. the_s,ase being proceeded with in the absence of Mr. Justice

I; Arttic. _
Chief Justice—l shall take a note of the objection.
Attorney-General—My Lord, in the case of the King v.
Finney, the case of the Bristol riots, the very same circum-
stance took place. The Judges of England considered the
point, and determined that if one of the Judges were ill a case
of trial at bar might be tried by the rest. There was a do-
...ument given in evidence on Saturday by the printer, Mr.
Browne ; we wish to enter it as read. It is the plan for the
renewed action of the Irish Parliament. The entire of it need
not lie read. _ _ .

.••••V
Mr: Hatchell—Read the whole of it.
Mr. justice Crampton—Why need the whole of it be read,
when we hays.it already on our notes ?
Mr. o'-eonnell—Only part of it has been read already. The
fipt part has not been read. It is an important document.
The Deputy Clerk of the Crown then proceeded to read :
" PLAN FOR THE RENEWED ACTION OF THE IRISH PA R-
TIAMENT, ADOPTED AT A MEETING OF THE LOYAL NA-
TIONAL REPEAL ASSOCIATION, ON TNR 27TH DAY OF

AUGUST, 1843.
' Firstly—The Irish people recognise, acknowledge, main-
tain, and will continually uphold, and preserve upon the Throne
of Ireland,
' HER MAJESTY QUEEN VICTORIA,
(wHoat GOO 'PROTECT).
Queen by undoubted right and by hereditary descent, of Ire-
land ; and her heirs and successors for ever.
" The people of Ireland recognise, acknowledge, and main-
tain„and will continually preserve and uphold, all the preroga-
tivei of her Majesty, and of her heirs and successors; belonging
to, arid-inherent in, the Imperial Crown of Ireland ; and they
wilt true allegiance bear, pure, undivided, and indivisible, to
' her Majesty, her heirs and successors for ever.
" Secondly—The people of Ireland acknowledge, and will
maintain and 'preserve for ever, the privileges, hereditary and
personal, of the Peers of Ireland, together with the legislative
and judicial authority of the Irish House of Lords, and the ex-
ereiie of the prerogative in augmenting and limiting the peer-
• hge, as the same did of right exist before the year 1800.
" Thirdly—The people of Ireland do firmly insist upon the
'restoration of the Irish House of Commons, consisting of three
hundred representatives of the Irish people—and claim in the
presence of their Creator, the right of the people of Ireland to
:uch restoration.
They have submitted to the Union as being binding as a
lard ;, but they declare solemnly that it is not foundei on right
'dr on constitutional principles; and that it is not obligatory
uqon'cOnscience. They agree with the Tory Attorney-General
Staurin, that the only binding power of the Union is the strength
a the English domination. They also agree with him that
resistance to the Union is in the abstract a duty ; and the ex-
hibition of that resistance a mere question of prudence.' They
will: therefore, resist the Union 133 all legal, peaceful, and con-
stitutional means.
" Fourthly—The plan for the restoration of the Irish Parlia-
ment is as follows :-1. That county members shall be in-
creased to 173 in the manner hereinafter specified. 2. That
therrahould be 127 members returned from cities and towns
in the manner hereinafter mentioned. 3. That the county of
i2arlow, being the only county in Ireland with less than 100,000
inhabitants, should get an increase of one member, so as to have
three representatives; that every other county having above
100,000 inhabit.nts, should get an increase of two members ;
tlcat every county ranging above 150,000 inhabitants, should
get an increase of three members; that every county ranging
above 250,000 inhabitants, should get an increase of four mem-
litsrs; that the county of Tipperary having more than 400,000
inhabitants, but less than 500,000, should get an increase of
ei,tht members ; that the county Cork having more than
700,000 inhabitants, should get an increase of ten members.
" 1 ifthly—With respect to the towns and cities, it is pro-
posed that the city of Dublin, having more than 200,000 inha-
bitants, should have eight representatives—four for the parts
north of the Liffey, and four for the parts south of the Liffey.
'" That the.. University of Dublin should continue on the
baj,is edits present constituency, to send two members.
It is proposed that the city of Cork, having more than
100,000 inhabitants, should have five members.
' That the city of Limerick and town of Belfast, having
respectively more that 50,000 inhabitants, should send four
'members each.
" Ti is proposed that the town of Galway, and the cities of
Waterford and Kilkenny, having respectively more than 20,000
inhabitants, should send each three members to Parliament.
• " That other towns having about 7,000 inhabitants, should
each send two members to Parliament; and that forty-nine
other r6vrns, next highest in the ratio of population, should
send one member each. . . . .

" For schedule of places to return members—their relative
'population—and the number of members to be assigned to each
--:-the reader is referred to preceding Report, p. 4 and 5.
"The population is taken from the returns of 1831, which
having been made fora different purpose, and without any refe-
rence whatever to the repeal of the Union, furnish a scale of
ur.qtrestioiiable impartiality.
" Sixthly—lt is proposed that the right of voting should be
'what is called Household Suffrage' requiring six months' resi-
der-I'm in the counties, with the addition in the towns of mar-
ried men resident for twelve months, whether householders

or not.
" Seventhly—lt is proposed that the mode of voting for
members should certainly be by ballot.
" Fighthly—J'he Monarch, de facto, of England, at all time
hereaftewetioever he may be, shall be thellonarch, ;de jure,
sic horalid. And so, in case f a future Regency, the Regent,
•caftzeto in England to he Regent de jure in Ireland.
"Ninthly—The connexion between Great Britain and Ire-
land, by'peans of the power, authority, and prerogatives of the
Croivna to be perpetual, and incapable of change, or any sever-
arCe or separation.
The foregoing plan to be carried into effect according to
'the rieognised law and strict constitutional principle.
" Signed by order,
DANIEL O'CONNELL, Chairman of the Committee."
-Attorney-General—:Now.read this (handing np a document,
headed, " Rules to be observed by Arbitrators.")
Th 4 Deputy Clerk of the Crown then read the rules.
Chief Justice—Have you any other rules to prove ?
Mr. Kemmis—There is the arbitration summons, my Lord.
~"Chief Justice—What I was alluding to was a rule which I
am pretty sure was read in Court, but I cannot recollect
- exactly upon what occasion. It was to this effect—that if,
after a mallarsubmitted to the jurisdiction of the arbitrators,
he rdused-to obey the award, then he was to be expelled from
thelssociation.
--' Solicitor-General—That was contained in a report from the
Coeninittee. .
Mr. O'Connell—lt was a proposal in the shape of a report
to The Association. The reason I wished, my Lord, to have
"the Writ docurnent read distinctly and throughout was with the
Niew of showing yOur Lordship that the ultimate result and
Flnipted omitted any such resolution.
...c.fiief Justice—Let us see what it is.
. Mr. Brewster—Mr. Ross proved it, but had not a copy of it.
Mr. Jackson proved it, and produced a manifold copy of it.
Mr. O'Connell—lt was a report even of a sub-Committee,
and if the document itself be produced, it will show that
what you have' heard read just now was the final adoption of
the plan. ,
Mr. Brewster—Here is the manifold copy of it. I will
girt you the date of it in order that you, my Lord, may recol-
lefa it better. It is a report from the subcommittee appointed
some, day in August, 1843, to consider and report upon a
getera.Loystem of arbitration throughout the country. '1 hat is
thrSescription of it.
• r. o!Connell—Was that document read by the officer ?
Brewster—lt was.
:Mr. O'Connell—All I want is that the document should be
fairly before the Court. We had better have it read again.
Chief Justice—l think so.
O'Connell-7-11ere it is in print ; it will be more easily
read.
Mr, Brewster—They are different documents. •
Chief Justice—The document which Mr. O'Connell speaks
of is the same Aseyou have in manifold.
Mr. creonnell—l will read the beading for you ; it is the
Itepbt f of the sub-committee appointed on the 17th of
;,-.August, 1843, to consider and report upon a plan for the adop-
ti.n of a general system of arbitration."
Mr. Brewster--That is the heading of the manifold docu-
ment certainly.
Mr: O'Connell—And that report was received on the 21st
cf. ,august, -1843?
Air. Brewster—Certainly.
, Al‘Donough—You don't mean received?
Air. O'Connell—No,, no, no, by " received" 1 mean only
the date of the report coming in.
Air. Brewster—lt was read fully on Saturday, but your
Lordships can read this (offering the manifold copy to the
13ench ).
Chief Justice—l wish ynu would let me see a copy which
I can read. I cannot read the manifold, nor I cannot read the
bhort-hand notes. There are a great many things I require
aid and assistatce in.
Mr. Justice Crampton—Give a printed copy to the Chief

Justice.
..11r."Henn-:-Let Mr. Bourne read it.
Mr. Brewster—l have no objection.
The Clerk of the Crown then proceeded to read the docu-
'meht headed " Report of the sub-committee appointed to
-Consider .and report urn a general system of arbitration
through Out the country. Mr. O'Connell held a printed copy
,in his hand, and corrected the officer whenever he mistook a
1, ord.
'llle Attorney.. General begged to remind the Court that the
printed paper' by Browne which contained this document was
al4o in evidence as well as the manuscript copy.
ChiecJustice asked how it was signed.
Clerk of the Crown—lt is signed" John Gray, Chairman."
O'Connell—Chairman of the committee
The officer next read the printed form of the appointment of
11(1,eal Wardens, and also the form of notice for parties to at-
tend at the Arbitration Courts, and submit their differences for
a indication.
The' next document read was the notice calling the m ee t.
nr
for Mullaghmast, and headed, " Leinster for Repeal."
The follovving witness was then put on the table. He is a pale
looking young man, and seemed somewhat agitated.
'T'ho'mas Packer examined by Mr. Freeman, Q.C. —I am a
lithographic artist, and came to this country last March. I
livelin London before that. I know Mr. Holbrook, and was
employed' by him as a lithographic artist immediately after I
came to this country. I was employed in drawing sketches
from scenery, and afterwards lithographing them en stone, and
was occupied in other business also. I see there (two small
cards handed to the witness) two cards. They were printed
or; stone, but the original was engraved on copper by a person
named James, I cannot say who struck these cards off. Saw
several of these cards printed. There was a vast quantity of
them printed in Mr. Holbrooke's place.
Aft. Freeman (repeating the answers)—There, was a vast
quantity' of, these printed in Mr. Holbro oke s place.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—Don't repeat the witness's answer, let him
reply for himself.
%Ir. Freeman—Where does Mr. Holbrooke live?—At No.
4. Crown-street. I saw several thousands of these cards print-
ed,,..but I can't say the exact number.—(Another card handed
to witness.) This is a similar card to the other two cards ; it
is.printed from stone. It is the same description of card that I
saw in Holbrooke's place. I see this card (a large card handed
o witness).
:W. Freeman—The two first small cards which I handed the
witness have been proved already, and the second one is of the
some description.
Chief Justice—Yes, yes, they were originally engraved on
copper, and struck off from stone.
Mr. Freeman—Look at the large card I have handed you, it ,

is called a member's card.—Yes, it is. I saw similar cards to
this before.
Mr. Freeman,(repoating the answer)—He saw similar cards
to that before.. " '
Mr. Fitzgibbon—The answer was heard all over the Court.
I request you will not repeat the answers.
Mr. Freeman—What sort of card is this ? (The large card
handed witness. )—lt is a member's card.
Mi.. Figernan (repeating the answer)—It is a member's
card.
Mr.- Fitzgibbon—l tell you we all heard the answer. You
must not repeat his answers.
Mr. Freeman—Oh, its not important.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—Then that's an additional reason why
you shall not repeat his replies. I submit, my Lord, that
Mr. Freeman is nit to echo the answers of this witness.
Mr. Freeman—l hope you have no cold. -
Mr. Fitzgibbon,—Don't mind my cold—don't repeat the
answers.
Mr. Freeman—Very well.
Witness, in continuation—l see this card. It is printed in
the same manner as the others. It was originally engraved
on steel, and then the impression was transferred to stone.
The colouring was a second printing. I got that colour. I
put it on (but I don't know how to express it rightly). I put
it on the stone to enable the printer to print from it. It was
done for Holbrooke in the same place as the others. There
was a great quantity. of these cards struck off. The colour I
put on the stone was blaa. The printers put on the green
colour which is on the card by direction of Holbrooke. I saw
the design of the card, which was partly designed by myself.
I designed the decorations on the flags. They are shamrocks
.and sun-bursts. Holbrooke brought me a rough sketch of
the card. There was no person with him when he brought
me the sketch. Mr. O'Callaghan used to come up while I
was working on the cards. His
.Christian name is John Cor-
nelius O'Callaghan.' I heard that from Mr. Ilulbrooke. He
told me so.
Mr. M‘Donough—Don't mind what he told you ; it is not
evidence.
Mr. Freeman—Do you know Mr. Ray?—Yes, I do (he
identified Mr. Ray) ; I saw him at Holbrooke's ' - I don't re-
member if he was at Holbrooke's with Mr. O'Callagham. I
heard Mr. Ray speak about the cards. Ile inspected and
looked over them while they were in progress. He suggested
improvements in the cards. There were improvements made
at his suggestion in the form of the cards. I don't recollect
any alterations being made in the members cards, in accord-
ance with the suggestions of Mr. Ray.
Look at that card—what is it ?—That is a Volunteer's card.
Were there any alterations suggested in it by Mr. Ray ?
Yes, the improvement in the likeness of Mr. O'Connell.
Look at the letters T. M. Ray. Do you know who litho-
graphed them ?—Mr. Gardiner engraved-the fac-simile from
Mr. Ray's hand-writing.
Did you ever see Mr. Ray write ? yes, I saw him write a
little on the edge of the stone.
Can you form an opinion of Mr. Ray's handwriting ?—I
cannot.
Did you see Mr. Ray after the words were lithographed ?
If the green cards were done before the black ones, I did.
Mr. Ill‘Donough The black were done first.
Chief Justice—l understood you to say " as."
Witness—l said " if."

Mr. Henn—Haring now taxed your memory can you swear
positively whether you saw him before or after the words were
lithographed ?
I saw Mr. Ray after. I did not see him inspecting the
cards after the words T. M. Ray were written. The im-
provements in O'Connell's likeness were in the green card. I
made the sketch of Mr. O'Connell' myself. I had something
to do with the Volunteer card. I see the likenesses in it.
That in the head is Mr. O'Connell's. The one next the Court
is Flood's. I sketched it from a painting in the College. Mr.
Davis brought me there- The next is the likeness of Owen
Roe O'Neill. .1 copied it partly from a manuscript, and from
one of the old engravings of the O'Neills. It was brought to
me by Mr. Holbrooke and Mr. O'Callaghan's brother. I saw
Mr.. Davis at Mr. 1101brooke's when original sketches were
given. Mr. Davis saw the originals. The next likeness on
the same side is Brian tloroihme. I copied it from the
frontispiece to " Keatinge's History of Ireland." It
was brought "to me by Air. Holbrooke. I cannot say whether
any was present at the time or not. The next is 011 am
Fetibla. I got' the original of that in my imagination. The
idea of introducing it was suggested by Mr. Holbrooke. Mr.
O'Callaghan, Mr. Holbrooke, and Mr. Davis discussed the
designs on the card in my presence. I don't knos' that Mr.
Ray was present ; the next likeness is one of Sarsfield. I
copied it from an old French engraving, which I get from Mr.
Geraghty. the bookseller. Mr. Holbrooke brought him to me.
Mr. Holbrooke suggested the introduction of Sarstield. I
cannot say that Mr. Ray did. 'the next likeness is one of
Hugh O'Neill. It was drawn by me. I almost forget from
what I copied it. I think I composed it myself. The next
likeness is of Dathy. I have been in the Association. I have
seen Mr.'Ray there.
Mr. Freeman—Had you any conversation with him there
about the alterations?

Chief Justice—He has already said that suggestions were
given him hy Mr. Ray.
Witness—Not at the Association, but, as I said before, he
made suggestions. I cannot charge my memory with the
exact words he said.

Mr. Freeman—Look at the harp and shield. Were there
any alterations suggested there ?—Not in this card (the black
one), but on the other. There were not many of these cards
lithographed, for they separated by over-etching. Au attempt
was made to repair them. Ido not recollect which of the As-
sociation cards was first given. Recollects the time of design-
ing the Volunteer card. It was about the beginning of 1843.
The members' and the associates' card was about the samo
time. The Volunteer card was engraved somewhat later.
That was about March. Holds in his hand the Repeal War-
dens' diploma. It was designed by the witness from materials
furnished by Mr. Holkooke. The design commenced before
the beginning of 1843. It was not completed until after the
beginning of that year. It was completed before the Volun-
teer card. During the design witness saw Mr. Ray. Will
not undertake to say he heard any observations from Mr. Ray
with respect to the diploma. While it was in progress of en-
graving Mr. Holbrooke brought several gentlemen to see it.
—Mr. Davis, Mr. O'Callaghan, and Mr. Ray. Knows Mr.
Steele. He used to come and see the cards. Cannot charge
his memory which of them. No one accompanied him. On
the occasions of his visits he principally directed his conversa-
tion to Mr. Holbrooke.' Witness heard it. It was quite irre-
levant to the diploma.
Mr. M'Donough—lf so, say nothing about it.
Mr. Freeman—lt might be relevant to something else.
Witness knows Mr. Duffy, of the Nation. Saw him in com-
pany with Mr. Davis at Mr. Holbrooke's. Does not recollect
seeing him with any one else. Saw them in the studio. Mr.
Duffy sat in a chair, and looked at the work in progress. Does
not recollect him making any observations. The time Mr.
Steele came alone was about the middle of March, as witness
best recollects. Mr. Duffy rase up several times. Witness
sketched Mr. :O'Connell's head on the Volunteer card at the
Repeal Association. This was of Mr. Daniel O'Connell.
This was when the Repeal Volunteer Card was in progress.
Saw Mr. John O'Connell. He was at the Repeal Association,
near the table at which the Chairman sits. Did not see Mr.
Ray there. Had seen him before. Thinks he saw Mr.
G'Connell and Mr. Ray together. Could not say if Mr. John
O'Connell was with them. Was at the Repeal Association
very rarely except on business. His business was sketching.
Went five or six times on business. Don't remember seeing
Mr. Duffy there. Did not see Dr. Gray there. Thinks he
would know him if he saw him. _ _

Mr. Freeman—That young gentlemen there ?
Witness—Recollects alterations suggested in the diploma.
There was an alteration in the harp suggested by Mr. Ray,
and in the cap of the chief by Mr. O'Callaghan. When the
witness went to the Repeal Association to sketch, he was ac-
companied by Mr. Holbrooke. Won't undertake to swear Mr.
Holbrooke was a member. The alteration pointed out in the
harp by Mr. Ray was in the formation of the top and strings.
It was eriginally an English harp, not an Irish one. The alte••
ration in the cap was, that he (witness) put a spike in it like a
Chinese cap; this was not correct. Mr. O'Callaghan said so.
Mr. M'Donough—This is not evidence.
Witness had nothing to do with striking off the diploma;
cannot say if many were struck off; a great number of the
Associate cards were. When the cards were struck off they
were sent to the Repeal Association. I know two persons
of the name of Tom and Joseph Annesley. They printed the
cards. When the cards were struck off they were taken out by
boys in the service of Mr. Holbrooke. I was enrolled a member
of the Association. It was without my consent. I was banded
a card by Mr. Holbrooke.
Mr. Al'Donough—That is not evidence.
To Mr. Freeman—l took a sketch of Mr. John O'Connell.
I believe it was in the committee-room of the Association. I
was there once besides to take a sketch of Mr. O'Connell's bust.

Mr. M'Donough—l do not see what that has to do with the
case.

To Mr. Freeman—l were paid.—( Laughter). I was paid.—
(Continued laughter). I was paid by Mr. Holbrooke,
Cross-examined by Mr. M'Donough—l have been long
practising as an artist.
I presume your studio was open to the public ?—lt was.
I dare say that clever gentleman, Mr. Stuart Blacker, was
there ?-1 do not remember I had that clever gentleman there.

You think him a clever gentleman, then ?—What I have
seen of him I think he is. _

You have seen many of the legal artists around there ?
(Laughter,) You have seen Mr. Tomb there?—(Laughter.)
—There were many great persons there. They inspected my
performances. Ido not know if they admired them.
Mr. AliDonough—l presume if any of us went to inspect
your likeness of 011 am Fodhlam, or Dathy, you would show
it ?—Yes. _ .

Do you know them ?—(Laughter.)—l had not the pleasure
of their acquaintance.—( Laughter. ) I believe they are long
known to the Irish people.—( Great laughter.) .
Mr. M‘Donough-1 suppose it is only in your imagination
they existed.-1 believe so.
Mr. Justice Crampton—Mr. Freeman passed him over.—
(Laughter.)
Mr. Freeman—l did not know him.
To Mr. M'Donough—The public had admission to where
these portraits were. I was in the employment of Mr. Hol-
brooke since my arrival in this country. 1 left it last August.
I know that Holbrooke was engaged for the Board of Works.
He was engaged to do Government business. • I believe Mr.
Holbrooke was engaged by the Government when I came to
this country. I know he was subsequently engaged by the
Government. I believe Mr. Holbtooke was very well known
as being engaged by, the Government. It was advertised on
his glass that he was lithographer to the Queen. It was visible
to the whole world. He was employed at the same time for
the Repeal Association and the Government. I do the print-
ing business for the Queen. The printing presses were going
for the Government, at the same time that I was printing
011 am Fodhlam.
Mr. M‘Donough—Look at the green ticket. Did you design
it from your own imagination ?—Partly.
Look at the " Sun-burst," and say if it is the result of your
own fancy exclusively?—lt is partly mine, and partly Mr.
Holbrooke's. I am a loyal subject of her Majesty. -
Mr. M‘Donough—You would not engrave anything injurious
to her Majesty ?—Not knowingly.
Did you go to the Dining-room, or Examination Hall, to take
a likeness of Flood ?-1 did.
In taking a likeness of Flood, in the Examination or Dining
Hall, you did not think you were doing anything inconsistent
with your duty as a loyal subject ?—No.
Have you any idea of whom Flood was ?—Yes, he was the
contemporary of Grattan.
You saw, I think, Mr. Steele at Holbrooke's once and once
only ?—Yes ; I am not, however, aware whether or not it was
on business -wholly irrelevant to the present inquiry or to those
cards. I am not aware whether he crane there about arranging
a lithograph drawing to be placed at the title-page of some book
of his. 1 remember to have seen Dr. Gray there. I remem-
bcaemrhe to visitislookincgerotvaienr
itnhaeephrinemery.
premises,
Ho
et
vliekwneodwthne potruemheistehseranll
thatvAiier
. ww
Barrett.
is aitl I h
A rl .J
I . rememberevO'Connell e about
sawhim
had hi s
that
re ri
tirtei remember.unacquaintedlenacmeonly totaking
, with
I%talYnig hisuter-
likeness. I have not seen Mr. Holbrooke since my return to
Dublin. Came here from London on Wednesday evening. p
to that time I was in London since August last. I believ Mr.
Holbrooke to be in Dublin at present. I went to London to
carry on my profession.
Isaac Gardiner examined by Mr. Martley—l am a writing-
engraver.
What countryman are you am an Englishman. I came
to this country last January. I was in the employment of Mr.
Holbrooke, as an engraver, for nearly fosr mouths, &gm the
middle of February to the end of June, 1843. It is not my bu-
siness to draw letters on stone.
Here cards of the Association were handed to the witness.
The Associates' card, which is a small one; the Members'

card, somewhat larger ; and the Volunteers' card, the laigest
of the three.
Do you know anything about those cards ?--71 engraved the
lettering upon those (the Members' and Associates' cards)
somewhere about March last ; I engraved the plate for the
Members' card first when it was brought to me it had the
banners upon it. My work upon the plate was the last that
was done upon it. Mr. Holbrookegave it me to do. Ido not
know Mr. Ray, nor (looking round to identify the traversers)
any of the traversers. Engraved the small card. The name
" Ray" engraved upon it is supposed to,Pe a fac simile' of his
autograph. (Handed the yolunteers' card.) I designed the
writing of that card. t einnot say who engraved it: I en-
graved the Merfibers' card first, then the Associates', and next
the diploma (the Repeal Wardens).- I executed the writing
on the centre of this diploma. I see a stamp on the Members'
card. It was not engrossed when these cards were originally
printed. I cannot say what quantity of them were struck off.
[Here a coloured and uncoloured members' card were handed
to the witness, and he identified the uncoloured card as a mem-
ber's card, and stated he had 'no share in arranging the process
for producing the colour.]
Cross-examined by Mr. Moore—When did you first come to
Ireland February of last year.
Did you, on coming to Ireland, immediately enter the em-
ployment of Mr. HoldbrOoke ?—I did.
Mr. Hartley requested to be allowed to ask one other ques-
tion of the witness. Were any persons named Hennessy and
Annesley in Mr. Holbrooke's employment ?—Yes.
Did you see them take away any portion of the documents
printed?—l did not.
Cross-examination by Mr. Moore resumed—Mr. Holbrooke
had a considerable deal of business, had he not ?-11e had.
He worked for every one who employed him, I believe?—He
did. _

Amon.- the rest, for the Government?—He did.
You know that ?--I do.
HoW many persons were in his employment during the time
you were there ?—F,iur, in the printing and engraving.
Did you say that you received your directions from Mr.
Holbrooke in the ordinary course of business ?—.I did.
And you executed his directions according to the ordinary
course of business?—l did.

And everything was perfectly open—there was no conceal-
ment ?—None'whatever. - _

'1 he designing of these cards was as public as if they had
been designed for the Government ?—Yes.

That' Will do.
John Annesley sworn, and examined by Mr. Smiley—Do you
follow the business of printer?—Yes.
Have you been in the employment of Mr. Holbrooke ?
I have.

Look at the documents. Did you print any of these ?—I
will not swear.

Have you printed any similar to them ?—Yes.
Were they printed in green colour ? They were.
Who put the colour ou ?—I did.
Have you ever taken any of these cards for Mr. Holbrooke
to any place di.l once to the Corn Exchange; they were
small cards.

Who did you deliver them to ?—I cannot say.
Had you any parcel-book with-you ?—Yes.
When you delivered the cards was any receipt given for them ?
—Yes, seine initials were signed in the parcel-book.
Look at the documents handing some papers to witness).
About what number of them were printed off?—l cannot give
• a guess.
Were there several thousands of them ?—Yes, thousands of
them. _ _ .

Look at that document (handing witness a form of an arbi-
tration award) ; -was that stamp on it" when it was
printed ?—No.
Do you know where the paper came frotn?—l do not.
Have you (handing in the documents) printed such papers as
those?—Yes. _

What are they ?—Deeds of submission to an award of arbi-
trators.

Were many of them done?—There were a_„frood number.
Did you ever carry any of these papers to the Association
No, I did' not.
Cross-examined by Mr. Close—How long had you been in
the employment of Air. Holbrcoke?AbOut 11 years.
Have you been a lithographer during part of that period ?
—Yes.

Where is the original copy of that document ?—I don't know.
How long is it since you saw it ?—I could not say.
Have you seen that stamp affixed to other matters which
were printed by Mr: Holbrooka2-INo.
Have you printed matters for the OoveiUment for Mr. Hol-
brooke?—l have.

How long—for the last nine years ?—Yes.
During the whole of that period ?—Yes.
Have you never seen that stamp affixed to papers printed for
the Government ?—I have not.

When did you first see that stamp ?—I cannot say.
Will you venture to.say that you did not see it five years
ago ?—Yes.
Six years ago?—Yes.
Will you swear that you did not see it three years ago ?—No.
Chief Justice—ls it the die you are speaking o 1?
Mr. Close—The die, my Lord.
You will not swear that you
_saw it as long ago as two years?
—No.

Does anything enable you to fix the time ?—No.
Will you venture to say that you did not see it before the
year 1843?-1 will not.
How long is it since you say these papers were printed—
within the last three or tour months ?—About that time.

Upon your oath did you not see that die and stamp before
that Upon
have never seen it.
Did ,you ever see it' affixed to any other paper 7—No.
To none whatever?—Not to my knowledge.

Will you swear that you have not ?—I will.
Jos?pb A nnesley sworn,- and examined by Mr. Baker—l know
Mr. Holbrooke, the engraver. I have been in his employ-
ment for a year and six months, in the capacity of printer. I
have assisted in printing cards of that description (meaning the
Associates' Cards). •
Look to the other earth, and tell me have you ever assisted
in printing those ?—No, Sir.
Have you seen such cards ?—I have, Sir.
Have you ever carried parcels of such cards from Mr.
Hol-
brooke to any place?—l have.
Were they made up in parcels ?—Yes.
Do you know how many each parcel contained ?—I do not.
Where did you bring them to ?—I brought them to the Corn
Exchange.
Where did you leave them ?—I left them in the top of the
house. I don't know in whose office it was I left them. I
delivered them to two of the clerks. I don't know their
names.

Do you know a person of the name of Quigly ?—I have
heard tell of him. _

Have you ever seen him ?—Yes, I have seen him at the
Corn Exchange, and have given some of those cards to him.
Do you know Mr. Ray ?—I do not. I do not even know
his appearance. •
Look to the other documents and tell me have you carried
any of them to the Corn Exchange ?—I might in parcels. I
never assisted in making them up in parcels.
(The Volunteer and Members' cards were here handed up
to witness). l have seen such cards as those taken out of
Mr. Holbrooke's to the Corn Exchange.—(The Rei,eal War-
den's diploma was here handed to witness). I have seen such
documents as that taken out of Mr. Holbrooke's and delivered
at the Corn Exchange.
Cross-examined by Mr. Alexander M'Carth3 —lt was no
part of my duty to make up the parcels. I may have made up
small parcels.
Were you in the habit of delivering small parcels at other
places ?—No, Sir, not many.
Occasionally ?Yes.
Those parcels you did not make up either?--No.
Then you were told to take out parcels, ant you took them?
—Yes.

6overed with brown paper ?—Yes.
Is Mr. Holbrooke in town at present 77-He is.

Are you still in the employment of Mr. Holbrooke ?—Yes.
The Attorney. General desired the Deputy Clerk of the
Crown to read the Associates, Members, and Volunteers'
Cards.

The Deputy Clerk of the Crown then read the cards. The
Members' card was numbered..3l,oo6; the Volunteers' card,
and the Repeil Wardens' card, had the name " GeOrge J.
Green" upon it.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—Go back to the members' card, and read
the words upon the leaves of the shamrock. You have omitted
them.

Deputy Clerk of the Crown—The words are, Catholic,
Protestant, and Dissenter.
_ .
•

Attorney-General—Now read the arbitration award and
deed of submission. -

The Deputy Clerk of the Crown was about reading those
documents, when—

Mr. Fitzgibbon said—My Lord, on these documents there is
a stamp, and you will recollect that it not been proved that
any document having a stamp was ever received at the
Association, or by any member of it. How those documents
came into the possession of the Crown we know not ; but this
we know, that it has not been proved that such documents
were delivered to the Association, and they clearly cannot put
such documents in evidence.

Chief Justice—l don't understand your objection.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—lt is this : they seek to give in evidence
copies of a printed document, and to make them evidence
against the Association, by showing that copies of that docu-
ment—with some impression upon them about which we know
nothing—were delivered to the AssoCiation from the same
types. They endeavour to put in evidence a copy which has
something upon it that was never on any paper delivered to
the Association, or recognised by its members. They seek to
put in a paper which has something upon it which, for aught
we know, may have been fabricated by themselves, the mean-
ing of which we cannut tell--and which, for anything we know,
would be made the subject of observations that it is utterly im-
possible for us to anticipate. We do not understand that
stamp, or whatever other device it is ; we do not know the
meaning of it at all. How is it possible that such a paper as
that could be read in evidence against us?
Chief Justice—They don't read it against you.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—l object to their reading any part of that
paper at all, unless they show that we were in some way con-
nected with the device which is upon it. Let them cut it off ;
but I object to such paper going to the jury.
Mr. O'Connell (to the Solicitor-General)—That stamp will
suit you for stamping the arms. If you apply to Mr. Holbrooke
he will let you have it.
Chief Justice—lt is not going to be read. The document,
so far as what is printed on it, has been proved.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—With great respect, I beg pardon, it has
not by any means. That particular document has not been
proved.
Chief Justice—l did not say any such thing ; but what I said
war, that what was printed upon it was proved.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—What is printed on it may have been shown
to be printed upon a thousand papers delivered by the Asso-
ciation ; but that would not snake the document, as it is now
before the Court, admissible in evidence.
Judge Perrin—That stamp, or whatever is its character,
cannot affect the meaning or import of the rest.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—They will be entitled by and by to send it
to the jury if it is now read.
Judge Perrin—But without your consent they may be read
now, but the jury "cannot get the document unless you consent.
Mr. Fitzgibbon—Well, sif.iject to that, of course we may
go on.
' Solieitor-General—Oh, we don't lay any stress upon it.
The next witness for the Crown then came upon the table.
He gave his name as John IJlick M‘Namara, and was sworn
and examined by Mr. Tomb-1 am a short-hand writer. I
attended a meeting that took place at Tullamore on
the 16th of July last. I arrived there the evening before.
The meeting commenced some time before two o'clock.
I saw a great many people there. As far as I saw they
came there the same way as they would come to town
on any other occasion—say on a market day. There
were great crowds. at that meeting. I took notes of what
passed there, sbort•hand notes. I transcribed these notes after,
with the exception of some few sentences. My short-hand
notes have been destroyed. I have the transcript here.• I
know two of the traversers, Mr. Daniel O'Connell and Mr.
Steele. I saw them there. The Rev. Dr. O'Rafferty was
chairman of that meeting.
Mr. Hatchell—Do you mean to say that your transcript of
the speeches, or whatever it was, is a correct and verbatim
translation of what was on your notes ?—Yes, with the excep-
tion I stated. I took notes of some few sentences, which, in
transcribing, I omitted.
Mr. Hatchell—Then your short-hand notes would show
certain portions of a speech taken down, but not transcribed?
--Yes.

11Ir. Hatchell—ls any portion of that -which you call the
transcript of your short-hand notes supplied from your memory ?