The Sun.
London, England, 1868-03-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 17, 1868.

THE MORTON TESTIMONIAL.

SEVERAL Gentlemen, friends of Mr. CH ARLES
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BETTS'S CAPSULES.—Mr. BETTS, of No. 1,
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(see Times of the 10th inst.) do not in any way affect any,
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used without risk or question.—Feb. 15, 1868.

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAsT EVENING.

The. LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsac k
at five o'clock.

PUBLIC ELEM.ENTAEY EDUCATION IN
'ENGLAND.

Thp Duke of MARLBOROUGH- gave notice that he
should call attention to public elsmentary education in
England, and bring in a bill 'on that subject en Tuesday
week next.

policy. (Hear, hear.) It might, however, suit some
to call it policy ; but it was not, and could not be called
statesmanship—it was the rule of thumb. (Hear, hear,
and cheers.)

Mr. GREGORY, admitting the general accuracy of
Lord Mayo's picture of the progressive condition of Ire-
land, and allowing that Fenianism was confined to one
part of the country, and was utterly impracticable in its
aims, maintained that there was much discontent afloat
which ought to be dealt with immediately; and it ought
to be dealt with as nearly as possible in the same spirit as
an Irish Parliament .would handle it in. On the land
question, stability of tenure was the first thing to be ob-
tained, and if Mr. Bright's plan could be accompanied by
some provision against subdivision it might confer great
benefits on Ireland. On the question of education, reply-
ing to Mr. Horsman's remarks, he denied that the Roman
Catholic laity required protection against their hierarchy,
and showed that in asking for denominational edu-
cation, primary and university, they required no
more than was claimed by Protestants. The first
objections to the mixed system of education
came from the Protestant clergy, and though the
Roman Catholic bishops had condemned the principle on
which the Queen's Colleges were based, they had not car-
ried their opposition to greater length. But at the bottom
of all Irish difficulties lay the State Church, and, speaking
as a Protestant, he recommended Mr. Bright's scheme to
the consideration of Protestants. Personally be was in
favour of the endowment of the three denominations in
Ireland ; but he acknowledged that public opinion was
against endowments. Simply to sweep away the Church
would be an unstatesmanlike solution, and must leave
much bitterness and animosity behind. Looking to the
great difficulties which beset the question, its settlement
must be attained by a compromise, and one item of that
compromise ought to be the conveyance to each denomina-
tion of a lump sum, with a condition in the case of Roman
Catholics that a part of it should be applied to
the purchase of glebe lands and manses. He ex-
horted the enemies of the Church to be content
with dis-establishment, and avowed his wish that
the question should be deferred until the new Par-
liament, which would deal with it on a larger basis.
lAa tt oonnsg wo it
for improvements, and an improved administration of rail-
thhe r
therm e erdoi epse hem suggestedo
adni
sr e c
oft dippubliclomatic
nreey-
ways. _ _

Mr. CONOLLY augured; much good from the practical
turn of the debate, and while maintaining that Irish Pro-
testants were not indisposed to a calm and just settle-
ment of the Church question, intimated that he should
oppose Lord Mayo's Land Bill if it was like that of last
year.

_
As Mr. Conolly sat down more than a score members
sprang up to continue the debate in all parts of the house,
but chiefly on the Liberal benches, and the Speaker called
on

Mr. W. H. GL ADSTONE, who, in a very successful
maiden speech, argued that the circumstances of Ireland
required a bolder treatment than the Ministerial pro-
gramme. Fenianism, he held, was not so dangerous as
the subdued and smothered feelings of discontent, which
prevailed extensively, and on which it fed. The cause of
this discontent he defined to be the illiberal policy we had
pursued towards the Irish people, both as cultivators of
the soil and as Roman Catholics. He advocated a system
of certain and liberal compensation for improvements,
and this he would substitute for the tenant-right custom
which we did not altogether approve. Deeply regretting
that the Government had no policy in regard to the
Church, he insisted that no time should be lost by Parlia-
ment in pronouncing for the principle of religious equality,
and he combatted the plea that to disestablish the Irish
Church would strike a blow at the English Church, show-
ing in how many circumstances the two differed. The
one was an insult to the vast majority of the population,
while the other was in entire accordance with the feelings
of the people among whom it was established. On the
question of education, though he should have preferred a
fusing of all educational establishments into one Uni-
versity, he did not disapprove the plan of the Government
to charter a Catholic University.
Lord CASTLEROSSE complained of the timidity of
the Government in not dealing with the Church. He ex-
pressed a strong opinion in favour of a measure for com-
pensation to tenants, and predicted that Parliament would
not consent to the plan of a Catholic University.
The discussion was continued on the same side by Mr.
De la, Poer and Mr. Synan ; by Colonel Bruen, who
argued against the establishment of fixity of tenure by
law, and approved the endowment of a Catholic Uni-
versity ; and by Mr. Kendall, who justified the course of
the Government on the three points—Land, Church, and
Education.

Mr. GLADSTONE, who rose just before ten o'clock,
and was loudly cheered by the Opposition, pointed out
that, numerous as had been the blots hit in the Ministe-
rial programme, their greatest error of all was that they
had failed to realise the grave fact that we had reached a
crisis in the Irish question. Ireland had an account with
this country which had endured for centuries, and in the
opinion of every enlightened nation in the world, much as
wo had done, we had not done enough to place ourselves
in the right. The most recent proof of this failure of the
Government to grasp the gravity of the occasion was Sir
Stafford Northcote's speech, for the impartiality of the
Executive Government, to which he trusted, was not suf-
ficient to to counterbalance the injurious effect of unjust
laws. Time, his second palliative, had been tried some
centuries, and of the third palliative—justice—he remarked
that Sir Stafford's idea of it included the maintenance of
the Irish Church. Admitting that Lord Mayo's account
of the state of Ireland was, on the whole accurate, he
argued that the co-existence of material progress with
widespread discontent was a proof that some unsatisfied
necessity still existed, and in enforcing the gravity of the
political crisis he pointed to the depletion of Ireland by
emigration, the repeated suspension of the Habeas
Corpus, and the invasion of England by Fenianism. Mr.
Gladstone next discussed at length the adequacy of
the Government policy to the exigencies of the case
under six heads, viz. :—Parliamentary Reform, the Re-
peal of the Ecclesiastical Titles Act, Railways, Education,
Land, and the Church. The first three he dismissed very
briefly, and on the question of University education he
remarked that the Roman Catholics had a real grievance.
Ho defended the action of Lord .Russell's Government in
1866 on this subject, and in discussing Lord Mayo's sug-
gestion ha insisted, with much emphasis, that Parliament
had never voluntarily undertaken the support of denomi-
national Universities and schools ; but, on the contrary, of
late years it had been sedulously endeavouring to get rid
of all votes of a purely denominational character. Mr.
Disraeli must know as well as any one that such a scheme
as this could not be carried into effect ; it was a mere idea
in fact, which in reality was dead before it had lived; and
in the absence of any information as to the views of the
Roman Catholic bishops it might be described as another
"leap in the dark." But it was impossible to give a final
opinion on the University question until the view of Par-
liament on the Irish Church was ascertained, for if a
sweeping :policy were adopted it would bo necessary to
consider how far Trinity College could be made :avail-
able. On the land question Mr. Gladstone assorted
that the real grievance of the Irish people had
been acknowledged by the: Devon Commission, which
had recommended a measure of compensation for im-
provements. A just land law he had laid down to be one
under which, in the absence of any contract between land-
lord and tenant, the improvements effected by the tenant
should be his property, and he preferred to trust rather to
to the operation of such a security than to any measure
for fixity of tenure. Commenting on Mr. Bright's plan, he
pointed out some difficulties to it ; he suggested that if the
Government took possession of the Irish Church property,
the experiment could be tried there. Passing to the Church
question, Mr. Gladstone congratulated the House on the
rapid advance of public opinion, as shown, perhaps, more
forcibly in the defence of the Church than in the attack.
After condemning strenuously Lord Mayo's hint at an in-
crease in the Regium Donum and a subsidy to the
.Roman
Catholics from the Consolidated Fund, and ridiculing the
Government pleas for delay, he announced, amid loud
cheers from the Opposition, his opinion that the Church, as
a State Church, must cease to exist. Religious equality
must be established, difficult though the operation might
be; but he decidedly condemned the principle of bringing
the Church by grants
up other denominations to the level of
from the Consolidated Fund, and the plan for redividing
her revenues among the clergy of different denominations.
Those plans had long passed the point of practical possi-
bility. On the whole, he agreed very much with Mr. Bright, s
Mr.mode
loaf
,euffi
re
ec I i
ntog thwiistghrderaatwopehriastiomn.otiollne, rbecuotmbineenindteid-
mated that unless Mr. Disraeli's speech differed altogether
from the speeches of his colleagues, it would be the duty
of the Opposition to ask a decided opinion from the house
on this question ; and it must not be a mere empty decla-
ration, but it must be attended by some practical step
which would show the Irish people that Parliament was
now in earnest.

Mr. DISRAELI, who was loudly cheered, commenced
by ironically bewailing the unhappy fate which made the
commencement of his Ministerial career coincident with
the imperious necessity of immediately rattling an account
seven centuries old. Examining the elements of the Irish
crisis, as stated by Mr. Gladstone, ho showed that all of
them had existed while he was in office, and that no at-
tempt had been made to deal with thorn. Commencing
with the University project, ho defended the Ministerial
programme in detail. The object of the proposed charter
was to extend to the Irish Roman Catholics the opportu-
nity they had long desired of giving their children the
benefits of a higher education under the influence of their
own priesthood, and the sarcasms of Mr. ilorsman that it