The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-17 00:00:00

PUBLIC OFFICERS.

Mr. WYSE moved for a return of the names, offices,
places of birth, salaries, and ages of all persons holding
offices in the Customs, Excise, and Post office Depart-
ments of the United Kingdom, with the dates of their
appointment, and present location. It would be unne-
cessary for him to impress on the House the importance
of the motion. The officers employed in the public de-
partments collected largo sums of money, and
they were paid large sums of money. •He
admitted that there was no small improvement
in those departments within the last ten years.
He should like to see the service of the public offices
made as much a profession as the Bar or the Church, and
examnations established to try the fitness of parties to
fill those offices. There were 50M3 instances in which
that system had been tried with very good effect—
in the War-office, the Excise, and the Thasury.
With respect to the public service in different parts, of
the empire, he thought there ought to be some recipro-
city on the subject, that Englishmen should be employed
in England, Scotchmen in Scotland, and Irishmen in Ire-
land. He thought it was unfair to exclude altogether the
people of one country from employment in a particular
department.
Sir R. PEEL decidedly objected to the returns moved
for. He could not discover from the spirit of the Right
Hon. Gentleman's speech the object of the returns. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had complained that there was
not a due proportion of Irishmen employed in the
various departments under the Government in Ireland.
The Right Hon. Gentleman told the House that
the Secretary of the Post-office in Ireland was
not an Irishman. But, then, the Secretary to the
Post-office in Scotland was an Irishman.—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) The Right Honourable
Gentleman complained that the gentieman at the head
of the police in Ireland was not an Irishman. But he
(Sir R. Peel) would remind. the Right Hon. Gentleman
that when it became his (Sir R. Peel's) duty to appoint
two gentlemen to superintend the operation of the New
Police Act, and to govern the police force, he ap-
pointed two Irishmen.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
He thought not of Englishmen, of Irishmen, or of
Scotchmen, but of the t;vo best men he could find for the
duty to be performed, and lie appointed two Irishmen,
desirine• no credit for such appointment. Now, suppose
some Englishman were to make a similar motion with
respect to recent appointments in China, what would
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wyse) say to it? Who
was the Pleniopentiary in China? Sir Henry Pottinger,
an Irishman?—(Hear, hear.) Who was the commander
of the troops in China? Sir Hugh Gough, an Irishman.
—(Hear, hear.) But who thought of complaining of
these appointments, or of asking any questions as to
them, or their country, or their birth? Again, whom
had they selected for the chief command in India P
Sir Hugh Gough.—(Hear, hear.) But what was the
purpose the Right Hon. Gentleman had in view in
asking for these returns ? he asked for the names and
places of birth of all the persons employed in the Excise,
Customs, Post-office, and Revenue Police of Ireland—
but for what earthly purpose les (Sir Robert Peel) was
at a loss even to guess. How many persons should the
House suppose were employed in these several establish-
ments ? In the Customs there were 11,000 em-
ployed ; in the Exeisc, 6,000 persons; in the Post-
office, 3,000 persons ; in the Revenue Police,
2,000: total, 22,000 persons. And of these 22,000 per-
sons, the Right Hon. Gentleman wanted the age, ap-
pointment, and he (Sir R. Peel) knew not what besides.
And when he had got them, who was there in
the House that would move the printing of them ?
If the Honourable Gentleman thought that injustice had
been done in any particular case, let him specify that
case, and call for inquiry ; but he must protest against
such a motion as the present. He could not sanction
any such principle. He did not believe that when any
person was called upon to appoint an individual to a
public office any inquiry was ever made as to what
was the place of that individual's birth.—(Cheers.)
He did not believe that the circumstance of any man's
being boil in Ireland would create the slightest preju-
dice against him. They were about to call upon 22,000
persons to state the localities of their birth. Ile had
shown that such a return would lead to the most erro-
neous inferences being drawn ; but it was not upon that
ground that he opposed it. He thought it was not right
in the House to sanction the principle upon which this
motion was founded.—(Cheers.) We were all subjects of
the same Sovereign, were all united in the enjoyment of
the same rights and privileges, and we ought not to ad-
mit any distinctions as to the locality of birth. On that
ground, he opposed the motion.
Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH contended that all
the chief appointments in every department were given
to Englishmen and Scotchmen.
Sir R. PEEL—The last appointment to the United
Stateses--(Cheers,)
Mr. F. FRENCH did not deny that some Irishmen
were appointed to situations of authority, but he still
declared that all the higher officers in England and Ireland
were filled by Englishmen and Scotchmen. Of 80,00')/.
a year paid to heads of departments in Ireland, 60,000/.
was paid to Englishmen and Scotchmen. He believed
theotefia tt
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wrong.
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oetnphgoe .rsoughtgliet in the p
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would
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want
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could give a return of the different clerks and officers,
which would show whether he was right or wrong.
He had been told that there were not three per cent. of
Irishmen among them. The Right Hon. Gentleman
said there was no opportunity of making these returns.
The same reply had been made by the Secretary to the.
Admiralty to him (Mr. F. French), when he had moved
for a similar return respecting the Navy. He believed
such a return could be made, and that it
would show that of the hundred appointments which
had been made by Lord Haddington, nut one had been
given to au Irishman.—(Hear.) He thought his Hon.
Friend was entitled to the return, and he regretted the
refusal of the Government.

Mr. lIUME felt reluctantly obliged to oppose the
motion. Everything that tended to keep up the na-
tional distinctions between England, Ireland, and Scot-
land, was wrong, and on that ground he opposed the
motion. The return with respect to naval officers would
lead to most unjust and unfair inferences. It. was not
the disposition of the Irish to go to sea, and conse-
quently, the proportion. of Irish naval officers was
small as compared with Englishmen and Scotchinen.
He thought the motion would be attended with un-
pleasant and bad results, and he trusted, therefore, that
his Right Hon. Friend would withdraw it.
Sir C. NAPIER said, that in that portion of the ser-
vice with which he was best acquainted, he did not be-
lieve any questions were asked about country. The
question was who had got most interest.—(Laughter.)
He believed the reason why there were not more Irish-
men appointed, was that they had not as much interest
as others.
After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON,
Mr. V. STUART said that the motion of his Right
Hot]. Friend at least showed there was a strong feeling
that Irishmen did not get that fair share of patronage
to which they were entitled. He trusted that, in the
future distribution of patronage, a lair proportion, not
only of the higher offices, but of the minor appointments,
would fall to Irishmen.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WYE having replied, the motion was negatived
without a division. .