The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-19 00:00:00

keening, wages, cheques, and control which the superior
officer in Duniin had over the expenditure of the money,
and the whole seemed to him to be well arranged and
conducted in such a manner as to make it impossible
that there could be any waste of money or any defau:t
in the expenditure. He ba•l the sad:fiction of seeing a
large number of persons employed and receiving in-
struction in various kinds of labour. Without meaning
to defend any particular works, or to say that th-y were
judicious or no►, he was sure that there were able men
at the places he had named superintending these works
and preparing large tracts of land fir proper cultivation
which only for their exertions would lie for a great por-
tion of the year entirely waste and unproductive.
Col me! CHAT FERTON observed that the Board of
Works La I made themselves very Impopusar in Ireland.
The resolution was then agreed to, the House resumed,
and the Chairman reported progress.
PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS, &c. (IRELAND)
BILL.

The House then went into Committee upon the
above Bill.
Oa clause 7, which was the case of joint occupiers,
bt in, proposed,
Sir. MONSELL said he was not going to object to
the clause, but he wished to call the attention of the
Government to the position in which many of the
borough constituencies in Ireland would be h ft after the
Bill was passed. In England there were 187 cities and
boroughs, of which 11 had constituencies less than 300.
In Ireland there mere 33 cities and b.roughs, 10 of
which would have constituencies under 300. This was a
state of things deeply to Le deplored, inasmuch as it
gave rise to the greatest bribery and corruption. In
Wales or Scotland there was no such small censtatien-
cie,, le cause the system of combining the smaller
b_ roughs together, for the purpose of forming a p roper
number of constituents to be represented by one Member,
was fully carried out. Although there were many ob-
jections to that system, yet upon a balance of two evils
he thought it was the least. He wished to impress upon
the Government the propriety of applying the same prin-
ciple to Ireland, and thereby to lessen the temptation to
bribery and corruption. He trusted that the Govern-
ment would be prepared to say that they would consider
this suggestion during the Easter recess, and that they
would state their views upon the point upon the resump-
tion of business after the holidays.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that if the Hon. Member
meant that boroughs at present returning Members
ehould be combined together, he (Lord J. Russell) would
have the greatest objection to such a proposition, as it
would have the effect of reducing the present number of
representatives. But if he meant to combine boroughs
flaying small canstituencei with neighbouring small
towns, for the purpose of increasing the number of con-
stituents, he confessed such a proposition was not open
to such objections. There were, however, many difficul-
ties in the way of forming the limits and boundaries
of boroughs thus extended—difficulties to be consi-
dered both in principle and detail. He certainly did
not see such objections to this proposition as to induce
him to say that the Government would certainly oppose
it if it was brought forward. The question was one
which would be duly considered by the Government, and
they would be prepared to state their views before they
took any decisive course upon it.—(Herr.)
After a ftw words from Mr. G. A. HAMILTON,
Sir D. NORREYS was understood to object to the
proposition of the Hon. Member for Limerick, on the
ground that it would have the effect of reducing the
number of county electors.
Mr. MONSELL said that the proposition, if carried,
would not affect his constituents, inasmuch as the county
which he represented contained no borough within it.
Not so as regarded the Hon. Member fur Mallow; for,
according to " Doel's Parliamentary Companion," bis
influence was unbounded in that particular borough.
The Hon. Member, did not, therefore, look at the ques-
tion with quite so impartial an eye.
Mr. F. FRENCH said that the suggestion of the Hon.
Member for Limerick was very important, as many of
tho Irish constituencies would be considerably reduced
by the operation of this Bill.
Colonel RAWDON thought that the proposition o
the Hon. Member was well worthy of consideration, bu
it should bo recollected that the great antagonistic inlo.
rest to the landlords was in the towns.

Mr. B. 061308 NE said, that whatever was proposed
by the lion. Member for Limerick was proposed in a
spirit for the benefit of Ireland. No one had the wel-
fare of the country more at heart than the Hon. Member,
and he deserved the thanks of the House for the sugges-

tion he had Made. It was one which the Government
would do well to consider, not only as regarded Ireland,
but also England. By uniting those boroughs they
would do more for the purity of election than by any
measure they had as yet adopted. As an example, he
would take New Ross. Its constituency under the Re
form Bill was 190. At this moment the constituency
consisted of 80 people. If they enacted this 8/. rating
they would have it reduced to 50 people. It; however,
they joined this borough with Enniscorthy, or other
towns, they would be sure to have a highly respectable
and numerous constituency.
Sir D. NORREYS explained.
Mr. GROGAN hoped the Noble Lord would direct
his attention to the subject, with a view of introducing
seine measure to meet the sugg. stion, as Hon. Members
on both sides of the House were unanimous in their ap-
proval of it.
Mr. SADLEIR also expressed himself in favour of the
proposition.
Colonel CHATTERTON was understood to refer to
the last election for Cerk as a proof that the people there
were favourable to protection. He observed that tae
apathy that prevailed was the cause why numbers whose
names might bo on the registry did not appear there. He
declared himself in favour of an annual revision of the
registry.
Mr. REYNOLDS understood, he said, that the pro
position of his Hon. Friend the Member for the county
Limerick, was that all boroughs where there were less '
than 300 electors should be for election purposes asso
elated with neighbouring towns.—(Hear.) He thought
that was a very reasonable proposition, and the best
proof that it was so was the present, and what he ex-
pected would be the future, condition of the borough of
Poi terlington.—(Elear.) That borough would have, un-
der the present Bill, 110 persons rated to the relief of the
poor at 8/. and upwards. Deducting-, as his Right Hon.
Friend the Secretary for Ireland said ought to be de-
ducted, one-fitth from that number, they would find the
constituency reduced to 88, and the Hon. and Gallant
Member for Purtarlington stated that the constituency
would not be more than 75. If the Hon. and Gallant
Member *sere correct in his figures he asked if there
were any person to say that the borough of Port srlington
was reforms I, when, having 177 voters under the pre-
sent law, they we re to be reduced to 75 under the new
reform law ?—(Hear.) He was reminded that there
a ere no freemen to be found in Portarlington. He was
glad to hear it, because if there were, they would be as
everywhere else—like cattle in the market, and to be
sold to the highest and best bidder. They had been
told by the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman who had just
sat down, that the party of the Protectionists had tri-
umphed in Cork by a majority of 209. Now if there
209 who voted exclusively from the love of protection,
and not for love of money, then they must have so voted
from a love of a dear loaf. He (Mr. Reynolds) knew
the people of Cork well, and he was sure they had no
such inclinations as the Hoe. and Gallant Gentleman
ascribed to them, and he invited the Hon. and Gallant
Gentleman to teat that constituency on the point when
the new consinuency under the present Bill was formed.
It was his opinion, that the suggestion of the Hon.
Member or Limerick must be adopted, or they must
throw the representation c f Portarlington into the
Queen's County at large ; for, to give to a town with
75 voters the power of returning a member, would be
as absurd as to enfranchise Old Sarurn or any
other of the rotten boroughs.—(Elear, hear.) As to the
objection made by the Honourable Baronet the Member
for Mallow, that the proposed plan would weaken the
popular strength in the counties, he must say that he had
no such apprehension; and he asked if it would not be
an improvement in the estim etion of the Hon. Baronet
that Penney and Mallow should have voices in the re-
presentation of Mallow, either by himself or another.
He thought, too, that it would be an improvement if
Cashel, which, under the new law, would have 130
votes, should have added to it .the important towns of
Tipperary and Thurles.
An Hole. MEMBER—And Nenagh.
Mr. REYNOLDS—Yes, and Nenagh; he bad not the
least objection to Nenagh being include]. The making
thee. changes could not weaken the popular power.
They would not take more than 1,000 voters, and he
believed that under the provisions of the Bill there
would he 16,000.. In Tipperary the deducting of the
voters for the boroughs would not have any effect in a
county that had always been remarkable for sending in-
dependent Members to that House. He remem-
bered his Right Honourable Friend the Master of the
Mint being returned by a majority of 1,300. That was
a period prior to there being imposed upon him
what he called a lucrative taciturnity.—(Laughter.) But
he trusted to see him recognised, as he had always been
by him, as the living leader of the Irish people, and he
was one who would be exceedingly sorry that any com-
bination of circumstances should diminish the number of
his Right Hon. Friend's supporters in that or any other
part of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He thought, too, that
it would be no loss to Dundalk if it were associated with
the patriotic town of Ardee. They had always heard of
the purity of the borough of Athlone, yet pure as it was,
it would not suffer in its independence if it were asso-
ciated with the neighbouring towns of Roscommon and
Westmeath. With regard to Ennis, he was sure that
his Hon. Friend would have no objection that the elec-
tors of Ennis should be enlarged, because it would afford
to him an advantage of a large number of his country-
men attesting their sense of his merits, his virtues, and
his integrity. He would therefore beg to connect with
Ennis the town of Kilrush.—(Laughter.) Ho trusted
that Ennis would yet become what it had once been—an
exc. e Jingly important town. He was glad to hear the
Noble Lord had responded to the suggestions of the
Hon. Member for the county Limerick.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE wished that Hon. Members
would proceed with the consideration of the Bill.
Mr. PAGAN, hoped that time would be given to them
to ascertain the opinions of the people of Ireland on the
subject. It was his opinion that the popular interest
would be endangered by the proposition of the Hon.
Member for Limerick.

Mr. G. A. HAMILTON remarked that there was an
increase of the constituency in the couniies, and a
decrease in the constituency in the towns eaused by
this Bill.

Mr. STAFFORD remarked that the effect of the pro-
posed change would be, for instance in Clare, that Kil-
rush, which had two votes for Members of the county,
the electors there, if this proposition were adopted, would
have but one vote.
Claute 7 was agreed to.
Upon clause 8 being proposed,
Mr. FAGAN moved that a proviso be added to the
clause, which would have the effect of continuing on the
registry for eight years Vlose who had that right at pre-
amt. By their Dill they deprived the householders of

their votes and continued the freemen, whom they
repudiated under their reformed corporate system.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE opposed the proviso. It
would establish in boroughs a right which they had al-
rerdy decided should not be extended to counties. By
this Bill the voters should be revised every year, and
freemen would be so obliged to register under this Act.
Mr. BRIG 11T observed that the Bill proposed to
make a very considerable addition to the constituency.
It did so in the counties ; but the case was very different
in the boroughs, where the eff, et would be to dimi-
nish the number of electors—and that, too, electors under
a Ref om Bill franchise. He considered it a very
serious thing for that House to disfranchise any elector
whose corruption was not proved. Those electors in
boroughs were surely as worthy of sympathy from every
portion of that House as were the freemen.
The AT rORNEY-GENERAL objected to the pro-
viso as opposed to the principle. cf the Bill.
After a few words from Mr. F. French and Colonel
Dunne in support of the proviso, and M. Grogan in
opposition to it,
Mr. REYNOLDS called the attention 'of the Com-
mittee to the condition of the
,householders, who were
unjustly trested by the bill. At present they were
not liable to rates, and now they would be
deprived of their rights, and if voters would
have to pay poor rates before being regi,t Ted.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON said it struck him that the
amendment went further than the Hon. Member f)r
Manchester seemed to think, and that any person who
possessed the qualification now, would have it perpetu-
ated after the expiration of the eight years.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the proviso ... 38
Against it ... 80
Majority against the proviso ... —42
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the Bill,
as were also clauses to the 14th inclusive.
On clause 15, enacting that the clerk of the peace in
counties should prepare lists of persons now registered,
Sir R. FERGUSON proposed the omission of the
words, " excluding nevertheless from such lists all per-
sons registered under the said Act in respect of any qua-
lification heretofore requiring the elector to be or to have
been in the actual occupation of the premises." The lion.
Member explained his object to be that when once a
voter was placed on the registration list his name should
be retained there unless notice of disqualification should
have been served.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to the
amendment, and said that the clause as it stood would
prove more simple and far less expensive in its ope-
ration.

Mr. VESEY—The Bill had been brought in as a
boon to the people of Ireland. According to the clause
as it stood, however, he denied that in maly cases it
would be considered as a boon; for, under this clause, no
matter whether a person wished it or not, if he possessed
the qualification required by the Bill, he was at once
placed upon the register, and must be invested with the
right of voting. No person, who knew anything of Ire-
land, could fail to be acquainted with the agitations and
heartburnings which were attendant upon elections in
that country. On the one hand, the clergy were anxious
to drag the voter to the hustings on the popular side;
while, on the other hand, the landlords were equally
anxious to drag him t.) the poll to serve their purposes.
The evil of this system was ielt to be so great that in
numerous instances in Ireland the people bad refused to
come forward at all; hence the small number of electors
in that country had given rise to the necessity for this
Bill. His own county supplied an apt illustration of
the truth of this.
Sir G. GRE said that if the amendment were
adopted it would not remedy the inconvenience com-
plained of.
Mr. ANSTEY supported the clause.
Major BLACICALL said if the House passel the
clause as it was, and if they thus caused those parties to
be put upon the register, one-half of them would not pay
their poor rates in order not to be in that position.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the clause.
After a few words from Mr. G. A. HAMILTON and Mr.
GROGAN,

Mr. SHELL said that whatever might be the evil of
an electoral contest, let them, for God's sake, avoid a re-
gistration contest. Deprecating the undue exercise of
influence of the landlord on the one band, and of the
priest on the other, he, for that reason, opposed the
clause proposed by his Hon. Friend.
Colonel THOMPSON said the coming amendment of
the Hon. Member for Kerry (the ballot) would give a
better remedy than any that had been proposed.
After an observation from Mr. FORBES, the Com
mittee divide], when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it

... 42
... 145

Majority
On clause 15 being proposed,
Mr. CLEMENTS moved an amendment with the
view to the substitution of the clerk of the union for the
high constable, as the officer to prepare the lists of per-
sons qualified to vote, to make the objections indica el
in clause 19, and to receive general claims and objec-
tions; and the clerk of the peace as the officer to cause
them to be printed and exhibited; also that the lists
should be made out by parishes and townlands alpha-
betically. Ile then would propose the postponement of
the next clauses down to cla•ise 19 inclusive, with the
view of introducing the clauses which had been delivered
as a separate paper.

... --103

Sir V. sokbiltviLLE was prepared, on the part
of the Government, to acquiesce in the amendment,
which he thought an improvement, as tending to save
expense and facilitate the operation of the Bill.
The clause was then agreed to, with amendments;-
and clauses 16, 17, 18, 19 were struck oat.
On clause 20 having been proposed, a loag and desul-
tory conversation ensued, and various verbal amend-
ments were suggested. After some discussion,
Mr. FRENCH moved au amendment, the effect of
which was understood to be to save the franchise in case
of a change of residence.
The Committee- divided on the proposition, and the
numbers were—
For the amendment ... ... 57
Against it ... ... 144
Majority against it ... ...-87
The clause, as amended, was then agreed to.
On the motion of Sir G. GREY, clauses from 21 to
26 inclusive were struck out, for the purpose of being
afterwards brought up with amendments.
Clauses 27 and 2fi were agreed to.
On clause 29, which enacts that the town-clerk should
give notice requiring the payment of the poor-rates,
Viscount NAAS opposed the clause, as being one
which would entail unnecessary expense.
The clause, however, was agreed to.
Clauses 30. 31, and 32 were agreed to.
Sir D. NORREYS moved the addition of the follow-
ing proviso to the latter clause:—" Provided always,
that whenever any person shall have been rated in re-
spect of several tenements and premises of the value of
81. and upwards, the payment of all poor-rates due by
him lit respect of any such premises or tenements, being
of the value of 8/. and upwards, shall he a sufficient pay-
ment of poor-rates for the purpose of this Act."

The ATTORNEY-GENET?AL objectei to the pro-
viso as uselesf.

The amendment was withdrawn, and the clause was
added to the Bill.
On clause 33,
Mr. REYNOLDS moved a proviso to the effect that
any person on the register not having given notice in
writing of charging his place of abode on or before the
31st of July, shallrj not be entitled to be placed upon the
register.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the adoption of
the proviso would give rise to gnat inconvenience. He
should therefue object to it.
Mr. REYNOLDS said the object Of this proviso
was to compel parties on the register to prove their re-
sidence. He would carry the principle to 201. and 501.
freeholders.

The gallery was cleared for s division, but none took
place. The motion was withdrawn, and the clause was
agreed to.
Clauses 34, 35, 36, and 37 were also agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Chairman was or-
dered to report progress on Thursday, April 11.

- MUTINY BILLS.
On the motion of Mr. FOX MAULE, the Mutiny
Bill and the Marine Mutiny Bill were read a second
time

Oa the motion of Mr. BOUVERIE the Fees (Court
of Common Pleas) Bill was read a second time.

The School :District' Contributions Bill passed
through Committee.
The Committee on the Chief Justices' Salaries Bill
was postponed till Friday, in consequence of an objec-
tion raised by Mr. SPOONER, who thought the Bill
ought not to be proceeded with at so late an hour.
The reports of the Committees of Ways and Means
and the Committee of Supply were brought up.
Mr. HAYTER, in the absence of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, obtained leave to bring in a Bill to re-
peal the duty on bricks.
Mr. W. P. WOOD moved " that the Committee of In-
quiry as to Oaths of Members do consist of 21 Mem-
bers, and that the following Members do farm such
Committee:—The Earl of Arundel and Surrey, Lord J.
Russell, Sir R. Peel, Sir J. Graham, Mr. Gladstone,
Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Wynn, Sir R. H. Inglis, Mr. Attor-
ney• General, the Lord Advocate, Sir F. Thesiger, Mr.
Cockburn, Mr. Disraeli, Mr. Henley, Mr. Hume, Mr.
Napier, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Turner, Mr. W. Patten, Mr.
Walpole, and Mr. Wood." As he understood the
Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire would be unable
to attend, he proposed to substitute the name of Mr.
Hurries.

Mr. B. OSBORNE did not wish to offer any objection
to the appointment of the Committee, but could not help
expressing his regret that the Hon. Member for ,
oughal bad not been named, as he had taken great in-
terest in the question two years ago.
Major BERESFORD could not agree to the appoint.
mont of the Committee unless he could obtain some
pledge that its proceedings would be in accordance with
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman by whom it had been
moved. If the Committee should make aiy report
affecting the admissibility or non-admissibility of the
jftW otherwise than by means of the introduction of a
Bill, he should consider its proceedings unfair; and un-
less he received an assurance from the Hon. and Learned
Member or the Government that the report of the
Committlo would .be confined strictly to the result
of the inquiry, he should divide the House on the sub•
jest.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. I'. WOOD could enly repeat what he had
stated on the former occasion as to the intentions of
the Committee. When the Committee should be ap-
pointed it would be impossible for him to say what
they might or might notthmkfit
Committee
odo. But his
object was simply to obtain a
following the precedent in the case of Mr.
Pease. As in that case the Committee would report
on the various Acts of Parliament, aad the precedents
which existed with respect to ihe admission of Quakers
without forming any opinion; and so far from going
icto the Committee at all prejudiced, he should consider
it his duty to lay before them every Act of Parliament