The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-16 00:00:00

o„_
Mr. BARING deprecated their calling i_rreot
account from the House of Lords when they 1re.,,0
prepared to pursue the matter further, lest they qi
come into collision on su trifling a matter Wl'
other House. 1111'
After a few words from Mr. Home and I
LLtms, the Committee divided on the amen'
when there appeared--
For the amendment
6
Against it 9
Majority against the amendment —6,6
On our re-admission to the gallery, we fonnujo, of
Mr. HUME on his legs. He was complain.,Fo
a sum of 2,2501. being appropriated for the yimieV
of engrossing Bills. He thought that the 1101..ienco
never yet derived the slightest benefit or convert
from the money thus expended.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that if any tild
benefit were to be derived, he thought it °if; to
a paltry economy to withhold the grant; but riot
the other hand, no actual good arose, he shenleotio
object to any proposal which the Hon. Gee
opposite might make. He was aware that f., If
lawyers were of opinion that it was necesstiq
render those letters more permanent. peelff'
After a few observations from Sir 899c1r
Hume, Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Fox Maule, and the
cellor of the Exchequer, the vote was agreed ttditi
The next vote put was, that a sum not ezeTey
55,6001. be granted to defray the salaries an
penses of her Majesty's Treasury. te
After' few words from Mr. HUME, the Y°
agreed to.
7031 °
It was then proposed that a sum of 189. $e
granted to defray the salaries and expenses of the
cretary of State for the Home Department.
Agreed to.
A vote of 67,0001. was proposed to pay theilsreig
and expenses of the Secretary of State for xe
Affairs.
Mr. HUME said that this vote included 11111
20,0001. for Queen's Messengers, which, in ~,,0.
peace, seemed to be enormous, and when, inn', 011
there were such facilities of communication not
in this. but in foreign countries.
Mr. WARBURTON expressed himself to °nab'
lar effect, and said he thought these messengers; 00
to travel by railway, which was the safest et' 01
expeditious mode of travelling, and by
cheapest.
n.,50
Mr. REDHEAD YORKE thought the stige;oo,
of the Hon. Member deserved the utmost attel
Mr. HUME said he would oppose the preselled to
Lion unless the Right Hon. Gentleman prornt
lay before the House a return showing the
.inwnetaol
which these messengers performed, and the Or
to which they were subjected. tiiro
Sir GEORGE CLERK did not oppose thereof)
The expenses of the messengers were not so gre
in the years 1839 and 1840.—Agreed to. tbd
A vote of 22,1001. was next proposed to delyoo
expenses of the Secretary of State for the, Cou
Department.
After a few words from Mr. HUME,
The vote was agreed to.
ntelle,
The vote that the sum of 32,5001. be gra-, r'94
'
the salary and expenses of the Committee
.oied to
Council, and the Cbuncil of Trade was age
after a short conversation.
_lOl
2,000/. for the (salary of the Lord Privy e'''
agreed to d el'
31,6861. was granted to defray the salary rte
penses of the office of Paymaster-General. tYj
On the vote that 16,068/. be granted to de'llet°
salaries and expenses of the offices of ComPtr°
the Exchequer, &c.,
",„ her
0
Col. SIBTHORP gave notice that he won'
an early opportunity of moving an address Pyia,f
Majesty for the removal of the Noble Lord Vbri
filled the office, and who was a most useless ofB
(Great laughter.)—The vote was then agrecdsll,
2,6081. was voted for the expenses of the Stal
Office, after a short conversation, at the close,ehli.l:
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that the Ilintse
ecir,l,
facilities were granted to all persons who eh", sr
they had a reasonable object for their curiosity
as the publication of an historical work. the
A vote of 3,200/. was then proposed to deft
ook
expenses of Ecclesiastical Commissions for Engof
Mr. HUME thonght this vote ought to be -,lolil
out of the estimates. The Church had fundse-001
of its own, and he thought some of those funds 00 of
to be appropriated to the payment of the expel
these Commissions.
„vs
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQI-)"' ofi
this vote was for the payment of certain lay
whose duty consisted in managing the Eccles
Affairs of the country.
The vote was then agreed to. 0
A sum of 53,000/., to defray the expenses
Poor-law Commissioners, was then proposed. Pei
Colonel SIBTHORP objected to the vole' ge,
thought the Poor-law Commissioners had done
whatever. The duties of the present CommiOw,
e° s•ttl
might easily be performed by six Commissioners'
salary of 2,0001. per annum each. He regrett otee
the Government thought it wise to tread in the fe,o?f
of the late Government. That Government Wn;3o
fond of jobbing, and the Poor-law Commission
_OO
was one of their jobs. He would be glad to Tiobtii
Board of Assistant-Commissioners entirely abc:a
and he should therefore move that the vote be r`-
to 18,334/. 6s. 4d.
fro
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that, in %"- eti,lct`ii"
1842, as compared with the year 1841, a rrifil,.,
had taken place in this vote of 5,233/., an'
present year, as compared with last year, the. die/
tion was 1,5001. This saving was mainly 0w11,70.
reduction which had taken place in the nnellictir
Assistant-Commissioners. In England, the re; tp.o„
had been from 13 to 9, and in Ireland from
But while he made this statement he vvolilu, re
the Committee that if the Poor-law Commies'°. etr
to be continued in an efficient state, the reds
could not be carried farther.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said the various hoaxer'
guardians had set at defiance the rules and.or 5
the Poor-law Commissioners. What thereinre, e
would ask, was the use of. those Commissiones ,00A
was true that they had threatened to proseereatt,'"
of the guardians who had refused to obey tbea.,.oV(
but they had never carried that threat into eee- pt.;
and the reason was, that they knew that 1100'j
would ever give a verdict in favour of such in
rules as those which the Commissioners 113144)
for the guidance of the guardians. He tt'l3:-ttee.o
for a, moment call the attention of the Comiln,, if
the travelling expenses of these Commissione`l`;
appeared that a sum of 870/. had been pot I°o is
travelling expenses. Now, he did not believe e,
sum 'had ever been expended for such a purPesor
hoped the Hon. and Gallant Member for
01
of
would persevere in his,
Ir
amendment. 01P.,
Capt. PECHELL complained of the pen" .
g° 01$
certain persons who had been compelled to or
workhouses having been withheld from thera.tiloarile
months after they left the workhouse. ri,e, ;gel gro
this was unjust, for he believed the law an°
Commissioners to stop the pensions only sr to
pensioners remained in the workhouse. ...i0094
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was most an eibeaf
meet the views of the Hon. and Gallant oes
as to retrenchment with respect to the eirP°ol4,te
the Poor-law. Commission, so far as theY,cw,
effected consistently with the efficiency of the
fe VA
Hon. and Gallant Gentlemen must be frolt!,—olter;
the law as it at present existed prevented anJjeo 11)01;
tion in the arrangements dictated by the 111 ok,/
regulations of. the. Commissioners, except theti,7oo
were under local Acts. The .subject of the r
would be before the House in. a short til' iawif
several alterations and modifications would ~;01:),
duced. With respect to expense of the L(y
celled
Commission he had lessened the number of
missioners. He thought the vote could not 400
too large nor the numbers of those engage'
diee
Commission tho many.
wort P-1)/
Captain PECHELL said, although he vvde na tee/
with a kindly spirit the amendments a1111,.0.0
the Right Hon. Gentleman, yet he should °P„re to
proposition that tended to give undue infioen"
Commissioners. a sit
After a few words from Sir C. NArrri 1111 of
GRAHAM, the.vote was agreed to. soello
Upon the vote being proposed, that t11`..,, f
53,236/. be granted for defraying the exPens7
Mint, •
nee. 1111
Mr. EWART urged upon 'the House the -,ire„,oti.
of coins of a decimal character being put into o
tion, in the same manner as in France and oche
the
tinental countries.
nei"
Mr. AGLIONBY said 'that two years r assn.
Government had announced the intention Id'"'
coins of the value of half a farthing. He 5110? didto know if such was their determination 11°,1%ti' Poe
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE(4.correeed
not think the introduction of a decimal.. 010
would be attended with the beneficial effenl" 1,6
to by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. 011 bler
Mr. ESCOTT thought a smaller coinage ote
exceedingly advantageous, particularly to the
classes.;a and

Mr. HUME was of a similar opinion" ne'-f toe
been long urging the introduction of tvvol3,i,e o,a,be
threepenny pieces. He still remained of of ,
opinion, and saw no reason why the Chancell lob
Exchequer should not institute a coinage•
sired by the country.—The vote was agrees's" vt)'l3
The next vote was, that a sum of 13,4671' winsrea ;
for the salaries and expenses of persons
the Public Record-offic. cla
After a few words from Colonel SIBTUOar
.06
HUME 'the vote was agreed to.
A vote of 9,7001. was next proposed to lesfrlloy.,Lol.-e°
salaries and expenses of the Inspectors allu
tendents of Factories, Mines,, and Collieries. " •.tOlci
On a vote of 6,424/. being proposed to 'lsu-7,,isell°
lanes of the officers and attendants of the P"o
id
of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, t
1/9 X'
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the STIIOI4O
" two gentlemen at large " the meaning-er W
pression he did not understand.—(Hear)