The Sun.
London, England, 1850-05-04 00:00:00

TEE SUN,

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 3.
r Lordships assembled at Five o'clock.
PETITIONS.

Th Earl of STRADBROKE presented a petition
fi-oin, some place in Suffolk praying fora repeal of the
malt tax.

TH Bishop of EXETER presented a petition from
Lancashire against the relay system in factories.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from Cam-
bridge against any alteration in the law which should
authorise marriage with a deceased wife's sister.
The Earl of HARROWBY presented a petition pray-
ing for a repeal of the law authorising the sale of beer
in beer-houses, and moved that it be printed.—Agreed to.
The Bishop of LICHFIELD presented a petition
against Post-office labour on Sundays.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented peti-
tions from two places in the county of Down against
any alteration in the law authorising marriage with a
deceased wife's sister.
IRISH POOR LAW.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH, in presenting a pe-
tition praying for an alteration of the Irish Poor-law,
said that the British Constitution was a constitution he
held in the greatest respect; but he would rather live
under a military despotism than under a constitution
which tolerated the arbitrary proceedings of the Poor-
law Commissioners. He did not choose to be at the beck
and call of two hooded serpents, sitting in Dublin.
PIRATES' HEAD MONEY BILL.

On the motion of Earl GREY, certain amendments
were introduced into this Bill, after which it was read a
third time and passed.
The Bills on the table were forwarded a stage, and
their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 3.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock
PETITIONS.
- .

Sir J. HANMER presented a petition from Newing-
ton Butts againet intramural interments,
Several other petitions were presented to the same
effect.

Mr. FORDYCE presented a petition from Aberdeen-
shire in favour of protection to agriculture.
Lord ASHLEY presented several petitions against
the shift-system in factories.
Mr. COBDEN presented several petitions to the same
effect.

Mr. COWAN presented a petition against the Mar-
riage Act, also against the Public Health Bill and Police
Bills, all from Edinburgh.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH presented a petitio❑ in fa-
vour of some measure for the efficient supply of water
to the metropolis.
Numerous petitions were presented against Sunday
labour in the Post•office.

Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN presented a petition from
Clary against the attorneys' certificate tax. '
Colonel DUNNE also presented a similar petition.
INCOME-TAX ON FARMERS.
Colonel SIBTIIORP gave notice that he should on
an early day call the attention of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer to the method of levying the inceme-tax on
ter ant-farmers.

An HON. MEMBER moved that the House be counted
but there being more than forty Members present the
business proceeded._

LIGHT DUES.

FORSTER. gave notice of the following resolution
on light dues:—" That in the opinion of this House the
moneys levied on merchant shipping for light dues are
excessive and unjust; that our maritime lights ought to
be maintained by the state, as in other countries, under
the management of a board responsible to Parliament,
in conformity with the resolutions of the Select Com-
mittee on light dues in the session of 1845."

REPEAL OF THE MALT-TAX.

In answer to Mr. BUCK,

Mr. CAYLEY said that he had no intention of
givinz up his motion on the repeal of the malt tax. He
should bring it on at the end of the month.
HEALTH OF TOWNS (SCOTLAND) BILL

in answer to a question from Mr. COWAN,
The LORD ADVOCATE said that it was not his
intention to press forward the Health of Towns and
Police (Scotland) Bills in their present shape; he pro-
posed to go into Committee on them pro former on
Monday, and to go on with them afterwards at a morn-
ing sitting on a future Thursday.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL.
Mr. HORSMAN gave notice that in Committee on
this Bill he should move an amendment upon the first
clause, to the effect that the Commission should consist
entirely of paid members, and that there be no ex officio
or ecclesiastical persons upon it.
THE IRISH VICEROYALTY.
Sir G. GREY, on the part of his Noble Friend the
First Lord cf the Trea=ury, who was absent from in-
disposition, postponed from Monday next to Monday
week, his motion for leave to bring in a Bill to provide
for the abolition of the office of Lord-Lieutenant of
Ireland.

FACTORY ACT.
In answer to a question from Lord ASHLEY
Sir G. GREY said that it was the intention of her
Majesty's Government to bring in a Bill themselves for
the regulation of the factory system. They proposed to
limit the hours of labour for W 01213911 and children between
the hours of six in the morning and six in the evening
for five days in the week, and on Saturday between six
and two. This would limit the hours to ten, with-
out allowing them so much range as at present.
Ile made this statement in the spirit of the existing
law, and not with any view cf throwing' an obstacle in
the way of the exertions now made to ameliorate the
condition of the factory operatives in regard to their ,
hours of labour.

Mr. HUME deprecated any interference between
master and men; and he thought the exertions of the
Noble Lard (Lord Ashley) would not benefit tho daises
whose condition he sought to ameliorate.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Hume) thought this was a war between capital
and skill, and he deplored that the Government should
be so weak as to support a proposition of this kind, which
he thought in the highest degree impolitic. No man
would lay out his capital when he saw the Government
of the country interfering in a way seriously to preju-
dice that capital.
Mr. EDWARDS pretested against the compromise
which the Government now sought to bring about in
this matter, which he thought would be a departure
from the spirit of the Act of 1847.
THE MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.

Colo❑el SIBTHORP asked the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whon the Miscellaneous Estimates would be
brought forward?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Australian Colonies Bill was fixed for Monday; beyond
that he could make ao further arrangement, or say when
the Miscellaneous Estimates would come on.
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS (IRELAND).
Lord NAAS said of late years some valuable returns
had been laid on the table relating to the agricultural
statistics of Ireland, and he wished to ask the Right
Hon. Gentleman thc, Secretary for Ireland at what period
of the session they might expect a coati❑uance of that
return.

Sir SOMERVILLE could hold out no expectation
that the return would be laid on the table before a late
period of the session.
IRISH MEASURES.

Colonel DUNNE observed that there were five or six
notices on the paper relating to Ireland, all on important
subjects, and he should like to know how many the
Right Honourable Gentleman intended to proceed with
to-night.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE replied that he should take as
many as he could.—(A laugh.)
C ANONRIES.

Oa the motion of Mr. HORSMAN, anaddress to the
Crown was agreed to for copies of allapplicationsfrome
the Dean and Chapter of Gloucester, Rochester, Wor-
cester, Canterbury, Norwich, Winchester, Peterborough,
Exeter, and Southwell, for aid in the performance of
the additional duties cast upon them by the suspension
of canonries in their several chapters; stating, in each
case, the number of canonries existing at the date of the
application, the duties attached to them, and the amount
granted in reply to each.
DISTRESSED UNIONS ADVANCES AND RE-
PAYMENTS OF ADVANCES (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion for considering the report on this Bill,
Mr. HAMILTON moved the following amendments:
—Clause 3, line 42, omit the word " proportionate."
Line 43, omit the words " or other denomination or
place." Page 4, line 7, after the word " comprised " add
the words " such amount to bear the same proportion to
the valuation of such townland as the charge upon the
barony, union, or electoral division (ascertained as afore-
said) shall bear to the valuation of such barony, union, or
EreLspLeoctßiveloyf."
the EXCHEQUER was
The
electoral divisionuANc
understood to oppose the amendments. He proposed
to introduce words which would have the effect of allow-
ing
Treasury to ascertain the
and fix where the liability
of each division
should be; and he could not see that the
that their only object was certainly
Lord NAAS
House could hays any objection to
saidthis.
proper manner without confusing
s baronial and electoral; bat if the
the different division
to fix that liability in a
Right Hon.
Gentleman would assure him that the
method proposed would would be satisfied.
be the best he
Mr. F. FRENCH details which he had been
obliged to go into on a had great
the
officials in Ireland, and
doubts of the Government
late occasion
received.
by a letter which he had this In occasion were fully confirmed
The amendments were withdrarvn.
Mr. CLEMENTS moved to add the
following addi-
tional proviso at the end of clause
: 3:—" Provided al-
all be fixed, it
ways, that at the time such annuity.ah .•
shall not exceed sixpence in the pound on the net
ian-
nual
value then existing of the rateable herea
of any townland or other denomination, unless by such
limitation the debt would not be paid off in forty years."itamse
Ireland, he said, had been completely deceived with re-
spect to the boon which it had been pretended had been
bestowed on her. It was evident that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had reserved to himself the power of demand-
ing the instalments of the advance whenever he chose.
The
only course which the Government had pursued had
been to extract money from the people of Ireland.
—(Hear, hear.) It was for those reasons that ho now
proposed that the rate should not exceed sixpence in the
pound, unless there was a prospect that the debt could
not be paid off within forty years.
pared the censure
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
the Government would have been s
which the Hon. Member (Mr. Clements) sought to pees
upon them, considering that year after year the Govern-
ment had been granting votes of money for the '
relief of distress in Ireland. A more unjust censure
was never uttered than that of the Hon. Member when
he said that the Government had sought to extract
money from the 'people of Ireland. In the majority of
.'instances of loans of money to Ireland the period of re-
payment had been fifteen, and in some cases twenty,
years.
Sir R. FERGUSON supported the clause. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer talked a good deal

about abstaining to enforce the assessments, but the re-
turns showed that there was no foundation for whist he
said, and he really did hope the 11-use would insist
upon the reducing the poor-law estahlishment in Ireland.
Mr. TRELA\YNY said if the Bill were no boon at
all, as some Irish Members asserted, he was quite pre-
pared to refuse it altogether.
Mr. A. STAFFORD reminded the Hon. Gentleman
that the Bill was not intended as a boon to Ireland,
but to save a mass of people from dying of starvation.
Nothing was a boon which was done to save life, and no
matter what the case of the starvation might
be, whether it arose from bad legislation or a
visitation of Providence, there could be no doubt that it
did prevail to an enormous extent in Ire-
land, and so far from its conferring s
boon on the sister kingdom, it was the
bounden duty of Government to provide some relief.
He called upon the House, if they wished to make the
Bill just and effective, to amend the clause, as it was
proposed, and not to allow their time to be fritted away
by the ill-natured remarks of Hon. Members who bad
neither the heart to commiserate, nor the mind to
comprehend the sufferings of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH was not ashamed to
admit that he was grateful for this measure, though he
was bound to say that there was too much money squan-
dered in Irelend upon officials. Much of Irish misery and
Irish difficulty had been occasioned by bad legislation,
and it was not only the interest but the duty of the
House to do something to relieve the Irish people from
their unparalleled sufferings.
Mr. CONOLLY hoped that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would consent to extend the time of repay-
ment over a longer period, as the expense of the work-
ing of the poor-law was much greater than had been
calculated.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the addition of the proviso ... ... 91
Against it

Majority against the proviso ... —37
On our return into the gallery we found
Mr. CLEMENTS on his legs, moving that the Bill
should be recommitted for the purpose of amending
clause 70, and inserting words in other clauses, which
after a short discussion, was withdrawn.
PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS, &c. (IRELAND)
BILL.

On the order of the day fur considering the amend-
ments proposed in this Bill,
Mr. M. POWER moved the addition of the following
clause:—" Be it enacted, that in all cases of agreement
between the landlord and occupier, or (in cases of joint
occupancy) the occupiers of lands, tenements, heredita-
meats, within any county in Ireland, by virtue of which
agreement the landlord is or shall be rated for the poor-
rates at the net annual value of Si. and upwards, the
occupier, or (in cases of joint occupancy) the occupiers
of such premises shall have all the rights of registry and
voting as if he or they had been rated; and should the
landlord, under such circumstances, refuse or neglect to
pay the said rates, the payment thereof by the occupier,
or (in cases of joint occupancy) by the occupiers, shall
entitle him or them to a right of registry and voting,
and also a right to deduct from the rent the full amount
of such rates."
Mr. HATCHELL (the Solicitor-General for Ireland)
agreed to the principle of the clause, as applicable not
only to counties but also to cities and boroughs; but with
respect to the wording of the clause he found it not
sufficiently explicit to effect the purpose the Hon. Mem-
ber had in view. He (Mr. Hatchell) had therefore
made some verbal amendments in it with a view to that
object.
Lord BERNARD said that the clause would lead to
inextricable confusion and perjury. There was nothing
in it to prevent any person coming forward and swearing
that he had paid the rates and claiming to vote.
Mr. GROGAN also objected to the clause.
After a short discussion, in which Sir D. Norreys, Mr.
Monsell, Major Blacken, Mr. O'Flaherty, aad Lord
Naas took part,
Mr. STAFFORD stated he was opposel to the clause,
as it would create a complete system of faggot-voting in
Ireland.
Sir G. CLERK said that all difficulty would be re-
moved by the tenant putting forward a claim to be rated,
and then upon his paying the rate he should be able to
vote.

Mr. HATCHELL said that was the object contem-
plated by his amendments.
Sir J. YOUNG said the clause would affect so few
beneficially and so many disadvantageously, that he could
not give his consent to any proposal so well calculated to
give rise to fraud.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE suggested that the clause
should be withdrawn, for the purpose of being printed,
and then it could be takea into consideration on the third
reading.
Mr. POWER consented to adopt this course; and
After a few words from Colonel Dunne, Sir D. Nor-
reys, and Sir G. Grey, the clause was withdrawn.
Colonel CHATTERTON then moved the insertion of
a clause to the effect that the class of voters usually
called " non-resident freemen" be permitted to vote at
the election of Members of Parliament for cities and
boroughs, if duly registered and resident within the
county. He also hoped that the Irish Secretary would
postpone the registration from June to August, as the
sessions were held in that month, and a large number of
electors would be added to the list.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said freemen belonged to the
county of a town for the most part, and the aloption of
the clause would give rise to very great inequality. He
, did not think it was worth the Hon. Gentleman's while
to divide on u proposition which was to reverse the law
settled twenty years ago.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE was very sorry to refuse the
Hon. Member, but the question had been settled by the
Reform Bill manv years ago.
Viscount BERNARD hoped the Hon. Member would
not divide the House on the question.
Colonel CHATTERTON withdrew the clause.
The clause was withdrawn accordingly.
Sir R. FERGUSON then brought up the following
clause:—" And be it enacted, that the premises in respect
to the occupation of which any person shall be entitled to
be registered in any year, and to vote in the election for
any city, town, or borough, as aforesaid, shall not be
required to be the same premises, but may be different
premises occupied in immediate succession by such per-
son during the twel►e calendar months next previous to
the 16th day of July in such year, such person having
paid on or before the Ist day of July in such year all
the poor rates which shall previously to the Ist day of
January then next preceding have become payable from
him in respect of all such premises so occupied by him in
succession."
The clause was adopted.
Mr. ANSTEY, on th• part of the Lord Mayor of
Dublin, moved to omit in clause 1, line 11, all the words
after the word " year" to the end of the clause. To
make the vote depend upon the rating was a restriction
of the franchise; and as the Bill was a measure purport-
ing to extend the franchise he considered it would be in-
consistent on the part of the House to reject the motion.
He would take the sense of the House upon the amend-
ment.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE felt bound to oppose the mo-
tion. It interfered with the main provision of the Bill.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion ... 26
Against it
Majority
... —BO
Mr. FITZPATRICK moved that clause 2, relating
to joint occupiers, should be omitted. If it passed it
would be injurious to property, and would place the
franchise on an unsound footing.
Sir R. FERGUSON seconded the motion.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the original clause ... 78
Against it
Majority ... —26
Mr. ANSTEY then, ;on the part of the Lord Mayor
of Dublin, moved the omission, in clause 6, line 29, of the
words " eight pounds," and to substitute the words " five
pounds."
Colonel DUNNE agreed in the propriety of striking
out the 81., but he did not concur in the expediency of
substituting 51. _ _

Mr. LAWLESS thought 61. would be preferable.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said a similar proposition to
that of the lion. and Learned Gentleman opposite had
been already urged upon Government, but had not been
entertained, because believed to be founded on erroneous
calculation. If necessary he could prove that 81. wai
the most advisable amount. _ _

Mr. BRIGHT said it was generally considered that
,he amount of 8/. was too high for Ireland. He thought,
however, it would be desirable to abstain from going to
a division on the 81. or 51. question ; but those who
were in favour of the 5/. amount might wait until some
contemplated alteration with respect to the grouping
of Irish boroughs was brought forward by Government.
118rti.oSITioAf FthFeOgßroDupinthgought the Hon. Member (Mr.
Blertghtto) Vlsoasmenotfuptaurrteicularly well informed on a question
which he had given advice upon to Hon. Members. The
wanted period
of
one time they
amount of franchise. What,boroughs,
the
Bill, he e believed,
b a t
not wasthe
at other times they supportetd
of was that Hon. MembersAt
em however,
efranchiseasures
f 0
enlarged,rthoenbaerrowi complained
ngi
varied in their opinions.
reducing the amount of franchise
thought he should do more harm
Mr. A.GLIONBY would Support every measure for
%qualification, but he
ported the proposition of the Hot an
good if he sup
I man, because, if carried, it would'l and
what
ghprevent
had
Learned Gentle-
cethuerrmedeasthuraet
from
Viscount
ae
opassingun t
BERNARDthe other H osuasied.
Bill—
which doubtednight
theced
Irishhim Reform
fowrmasßriill
Was
an abvoitnia at l wnleeyas.
sure. If he had another reason for opposing
which was but another kind of Reform Bill--it
be from the variation of opinions expressed by thewiluo
Member for Manchester now from the opinions he
had given utterance to at a meeting at Crosby Hall.
He would read to the House an extract from the Hon.
Member's speech on that occasion:—" The Irish Fran.
chise Bill was a proof of the great change which
had taken place, not only throughout the coun-
try,
but in Parliament, proposing, as it did, altera-
tions in the qualification required for voting which
relating to the property all not
ten years ago
. would not have been tolerated. About
ten years since, a
.1
opposed as if the welfare of the empire
re-
gistration, was
quali-
fication at all, but intended to improve the system of b
t the opposition to the
languid, that an Hon. Member, who
present Bill was so
too low a qualification, and wished
thought that 8/. was
depended upon its rejection; u
without going to a division.—
(Hear,)withdraw his motion
complained of, in fact, was that
to raise it, received so little support that he was obliged to
The only thing
h.
ein the boroughs to
they had not reduced the franc
were now very
a mistake, and that the Government . . .
large majorities,
any considerable extent, which, heis
believed, arose from
sorry for it. Now,. Bill, passing. by - ,
uce a
and only
clause which should in any way embarrass its operation,
a few Members attempting to introa
showed a change which it was most satisfactory to see, ,
and which derived the more importance from the fact, 1
that all public men knew that the presect Bill Was a