The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-23 00:00:00

i censitution, and f Air were about to receive it, aid the
question :hen was what was the constittrian best adapted
to promote their greatnese and pros,perity. That the co-
lunists ought to have power to alter and to amend their
own constitution, was egret d on; and then came the pro-
position what form of government ought they to start
with. The Government proposed but a singto elective
chamber, tine third 9f which were to be nominated by
the Colonial-office. The Noble L )rd at the head of the
Government was the illustrious author of the Retorts:l
Bill, and what would he think if out of the British repre-
sentation 226 members were to be nominated by the
Crown; and yet that was what the Noble Lord proposed
to do with the present Bill, as regarded the Australian
colonies. Tho Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member
for telidhurst brought forward his motion with great clear-
ness and ability, and as regarded the theory of two cham-
bers, the Rigel Hon. Gentleman tee President of the
Board of Trade was in its favour, and the Under Secre-
tary for the Colonies, Sir Charles Fitzroy, Governor of
Ni w South Wttler, the Governors of Ne w Zeeland and Van
Dieznen'e Land, were all fur the theory of having two
chambers. He contended there was not the slightest
evidence to prove that the colonies of Victoria, Western
or South Australia, were in favour of one chamber, and
approved of the present Bill, net because they were sa-
tisfied with it, but, in the aosence of a better. it was
also said, over and over again, that New S suth Wales
was in favour of its present constitution; but he con-
tended that there was no evidence on that subject to jus-
tify such an opinion. The Hon. Baronet having read a
dispatch of Earl Grey, dated last July, in reply to which
the inhabitants of New South Wa:es met, and denounced
the constitution which he proposed far their adoption,
in a memorial addle seed to her Majesty, proceeded to
say that they showed, by that document, their disgust
et the experiment of the Colonial office. and all desirest
institutions as near those in existence at home as possible
whenever circumstances permitted. Then, as to the power
of oetering their constitution being vested in the legisla-
tive council, he denounced it asfatile. Let the Government
propose t sat a convsution be summoned in those colonies,
as was done in the United States cf America. There acre
in that country no less than 34 states planted by English
colonists, who carried with them from this country those
principles on which they were founded and flourished.
feet them contrast that with the policy now pursued at
the Colonial-office, where constitutions were either pro-
posed or rejected, according to the whim of the Minister
or the Colonial-office. Compare this with the course
proposed. In the first place, they 'began with a bad con-
stitution of a single chamber, in which there would be _
no control over the impulses of the democracy. But it
might be said the Colonial-office would have a control-
ling power over the Legislature. Did they mean to ex-
ercise that control? If they did, they would run •
counter to the feelings of the colonists, and expose the
Imperial Government to defeat and dishonour. He
wished to ask the Noble Lord a question. It' these
colonies proposed to make a single elective chamber,
would be pledge himself to give the sanction of the
Government to that single elective chamber?
That was a question which would most certainly be
forced upon his consideration by the colonies
theintelves ? Lie would now give his reasons for sup-
porting a double chamber. A representative Legislature
should be a reflex of the opinions of the whole commu-
nity. In every community there was an innovating and
a conservative tendency, and the great object they should
have in view was to prevent party innovation, without
giving an undue preponderance to the conservative ten-
dency. Now, would a single chamber effect these two
objects? He believed not; but, on the contrary, that a
single chamber would cause an autegonisne between the
colonies *led the Imperial Government. All experience
proved that it was better that the struggle between these
two opposing tendencies should take place in the bosom
of the community in which they were developed=
(Hear, hear)—because, as was shown in the case of the
House of Lords in this country, however conservative
they might be, their interests were identified with the
great body of the community, and practically it was
the wee, that whenever any public question had
been decided upon by the great body of the people,
the good sense of the House of Lords always led
them to acquiesce in that decision.—(Hear, hear.)
Now, it was ridiculous to compere a body of Crown
nominees with the Lords. They could be only a purely
obstructive body.—(Divide.) The Right Hoe. Gentle-
man said there were 110 materials for a second chamber
in the colonies. He agreed with him in thinking
that there were no materials for a nominated Chamber,
vecause we had all too good an opinion of ourselves to
believe that any body of men should have an irrespon-
sible control over legislation. He objected to a nomi-
native chamber, because it would lead to a conflict be-
tween the elective and the nominative Chamber; or, in
other words. the Imperial Government. • For the same
reason he objected to a single chamber, because it would
lead to a struggle between the chamber and the gover-
nor of the colony; or, in other wards, against the Impe-
rial Government. But he supported an upper, and he
proposed that it should be composed of persons having
double the property qualification of the Members of the
lower chamber; that they should bo elected for nine
years, and be older men, because elder men were less
innovating—(Laughter)—and as smell bodies were less
liable to impulsive action and innovating tendencies than
large bodies, he proposed that it should be smaller in
number; that the Members should not be elected at the
same time; that they should be all elected by the
people. Under such regulations, he believed, they
would secure all the advantages arising from a double
chamber, give both the conservative and the innovating
instincts of the colonial communities legitimate and con-
stitutional methods of expression and action, and pre-
vent those conflicts between the Imperial and Colonial
Governments, which would ensue from a single chamber,
composed as the measure new under consideration pro-
posed.—(hear, hear.)
Mr. PEEL supported the amendment, thinking it most
important to assimilate the institutions of the colonies to
those of this country, and to introduce the features of
the British Constitution into the cnlouiel governments
of the empire. It was very desirable that the House
should not take a false step on this occasion, becalso
whatever might be the form of the constitution recom-
mended to Australia, it would have to rest exclusively
for its support on the influence and authority of these
who would constitute the governing body, and the good
opinion of the governed.—(Hear, hear.) If the system
was to obtain permanence it must be congenial to their
wishes, and he would leave Hon. Gentlemen to judge
how far an assembly, two pasts elective and ono nomi-
native, were likely to secure the good opinion of the colo-
nists, or to command their acquiescence in the decision
of its majorities.—(Hear.) He bad heard no argument
in defence of a single chamber, unless that it was the
form of the constitution in New South Wales, and that
a wish had been expressed that no alteration should be
made without their consent.—(Hear, hear.) Many Hon.
Gentlemen who entertained objections to the present
measure considered it unnecessary to press them, on the
ground that the provisions of' the Bill would enable the
people of Australia to alter and amend the constitution
at they might think fit, and to adopt a double chamber
if they should wish to do so. Now, so far from the sug-
eested remedy satisfying his objection, it aggravated
'the inconvenience, and the disastrous policy of the course
now proposed to be taken, beceuse no sooner would the
legislative assembly meet than they would be called
upon to discuss a great constitutional question—to con-
sider and review the fundamental principles of their con-
stitution, and to re-arrange and remodel the form of
their legislature.—(Hear, hear.) It could not be ex-
pected that the members would act harrnoniouly to-
gether, because the interest of the elective members
would appear to be opposed to those of the nominated
members. This, measure, therefore, would lay the
ground for future dissensions and local jealousies, and
would also hazard the good understanding which ought
to prevail between this country and the colonies.—
(Hear.) It was very possible the legislative council
would come to a resolution that the legislative power
ought to be vested in a single chamber, purely elective,
entirely popular, without any admixture of nominative
members, and he apprehended the Got ernment at home
could not consent to a legislative assembly so consti-
tutedet—(Hear, hear.) It was said that there would bo
some difficulty in constituting the upper chamber, but if
Hon. Members would turn their attention to the
example of the United States, they would find that diffi-
culty not insuperable. In every one of the states the
legislative power was vested in a Senate and a House of
Representatives, the population of some of the states not
exceeding that of New South Wales. In Pennsylvania,
the legislative power was at first invested in a single
chamber, but afterwards remodelled upon the plan
which had received the sanction of the other states. It
was the same in Rhode Island. Ho supported the double
chamber because he thought the form of the legislature
of each colony would materially influence the form of
the general assembly.—(Hear, hear.) He considered
it essential, if the independence of the several colonies
composing too union was to be preserved, that the
power of the general assembly should not be exercised
by one legislative house; and he could not give his
sanction to an institution which was admitted to be de-
fective.
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY said that he
had come down to the House with a strong preposses-
sion in favour of two chambers, but the arguments
which had been adduced in the course of the debate had
entirely chan,gel his opinion.—((tear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said the lion. Member for Leo-
minster had put the arguments in favour of the amend-
ment in as strong a light as possible, and yet he had
failed to show any good reasons why the House should
vote for the amendment. It was said that the Govern-
ment were now introducing a new constitution into
Australia—that they were putting into the legislature
of New South Wales that which never existed before,
namely, members appointed by the Crown, and starting
a constitution wholly unknown to them. Now, this
made it necessary for him to state what had been the
course of legislation on this subject. In July, 1840, he
had the honour of introducing a Bill containing a pro-
vision for calling in a council in New South Wales of
thirty-six members, of whom twenty-four should
be elective, and twelve nominated by the
Crown. In the year 1842. Lord Stanley succeeded to
the seals of the Colonial-office, and introduced a Bill of
a similar description. This was a strong presump-
tion that no great discontent or dissatisfaction
had arisen in New South Wales between July, 1840,
when the first measure was introduced, and 1847,
when the Bill was brought in by I.ord Stanley.—
(Hear, hear.) That Bill nett with little opposition,
and became Act of Parliament. From this time this
eenstitution, which was repreteated as so monstrous, as
a machine which could not work, es a thing utterly un-
known in principle, as wholly impracticable, bad been
working in New South Wales, the population of which
had not yet discovered its faults.—(li:ar.) This was a
presumption that in introducing a Bill at the present
time, it was at least a safe course to proceed upon the
foundation which had been already laid, and which
hitherto had nt t failed. When Hon. Gentlemen said
there tam to he fl COBStitlient assembly in New South
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tout assembly, he said they must preserve one of two
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