The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-19 00:00:00

TEA. AND SUGAR DUTIES.

Mr. lIORSFALL presented a petition from the mer-
chants of Liverpool, complaining of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's proposition in reference to the tea and sugar
duties.

THE IRISH JUDGES.
Mr. NAPIER asked the Attorney-General for Ireland
whether any arrangement had been made to secure the
attendance of a Judge at Chambers in Dublin durinz the
circuit which is now fixed to go out at the end of this
month.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said that
no official reference had been made to the Government on
the matter. The remedy, which was in the hands of the
judges, would no doubt be of great importance and con-
venience, and he suggested that if the circuit were so ar-
ranged that one of the judges left for circuit earlier than
the others, that he would be able to return to Dublin
within a day or two after the Chief Justice had left for
circuit, and then the grievance complained of would be
remedied.

JUDGMENTS EXECUTION, &c., BILL.
On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Mr. HUGHES moved that the bill be committed this
day six months. He based his motion on a variety of
technical objections to the measure.
Colonel FRENCH seconded the motion.
Mr. HADFIELD supported the bill. It would prevent
debtors in Ireland evading the law by coming to this
country, and defeat a judgment obtained against them in
Ireland, and vice versa.

Mr. WHITESIDE opposed the bill, on the ground that
it would inflict a greater injury than it proposed to re-
medy.
Mr. BLAND opposed the bill. The bill was not for al-
similating the laws of the three countries, but to alter each
of them. Every facility should be given for the recovery
of debts, but the house ought to be careful how they gave
facilities to fraudulent men to pay money they never
owed, and to fraudulent people to give undue preference
to one set of creditors to the injury of others. Believing
such would be the effect of this measure he opposed it.
Col. DUNN also opposed. the bill, and complained of
the Government not introducing such a measure if it were
necessary, but of leaving it to a private member.
Mr. M`CANN said that the Irish merchants and trades-
men objected to the bill because it would afford facilities
for collusion with fraudulent debtors.

Sir J. FITZGERALD supported the bill.
After some discussion, i❑ which Mr. I‘l‘Mahon, Mr. S.
Warren. and Mr. Napier took part,
Mr. ROEBUCK said that it, was true that in a civilised
country the laws should be alike and have one effect, but
this bill was' to give a similar effect to different laws. He
therefore objected to the bill, which commenced at the
wrong end. They should first make the substantive laws
alike, and before that was done, the housa ought to scout
such peddling legislation as this. (;Tear, hear.)
The LORD-ADVOCATE defended the principle of the
bill, said entered into a history of the measure from its
first in' roducti, n in 1854.t0 the present time, and said that
the object of this bill was to give greater effect to the
course now pursued in this country, that of putting in force
a judgment obtained in Scotland without notice to the
party, provided the proper forms had been complied with.
Mr. SPOONER opposed the bill.
Mr. G. BUTT supported it.
The house then divided, when the numbers were—
For going into committee 127
For the amendment
Majority —47
The house then went into committee.
On clause 1,

Mr. IPMA.H ON aQked why the Lord Maycr's Court, the
Courts of Common Pleas of Lancaster and of Durham, the
Tolzey Court of Bristol, the Passage Court of Liverpool,
the Record Court of Manchester, the County Courts of
England, and all other courts of record in Englan.l, were
not put on an equality with the Sheriffs' Courts of Scot-
land? and he moved an amendment to that effect.

Mr. G. BUTT thought it would be unwise to extend the
powers and jurisdiction of the courts named.
Mr. CRAUFI7RD (the hon. member who introduced the
bill) bad no objection to the introduction of the Courts of
Lancaster and of Durins.un into the bill, as they were con-
sidered superior Courts, but he objected to the introduc-
tion of the inferior courts into the operations of this mea-
ElllrP.

After some remarks from Mr. Napier, the Solicitor-
General, and Mr. Whiteside,
Mr. HAYTEtt said that he bad received several amend-
ments to the bill, from one of the Irish Chief Justices,
quite in the spirit of the principle of the bill, and he sug-
gested the adjouinment of the committee, to enable him
to place the amendments on the paper for the considera-
tion of hon. members.
The A TTORNE Y-GENEUNL for IRELAND supported
the suggestion, and added that he had received a commu-
nication from the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, approv-
ing of the principle of the bill, suggesting alterations in
detail requiring the consideration of the house.
After some further diAcus,ion the house resumed ;
Mr. M`MAHON intimating that he should press his
amendment on another occasion, if the mover of the bill
did not adopt it.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the house
resumed.

CHIEF CONSTABLES BILL.
The house then went into cx»inittee on this bill.
After a short discussion the clauses were egreed to, and
the bill passed through columitte.
PUBLIC HE tLTII SUPPLEMENTAL BILL (1857).
This bill wp.s read a second tiim and ordered to be cow-
mi tted.

NE iY WRIT.
On the motion of the ATTOUNEY-GENERAL for
IRELAND, -a now writ vca3 ordend for the county of
Tipperary, in the room of Mr. Jame 3 Sa..lleir, expelled the
houv.

EDUCATION.

Sir J. PAKINGTON then rose to move for leave to
bring in a bill to promote education in cities and towns.
He said—l rise once more to request the permission of
the house to introduoe a bill to give increased facilities
for the extension of populsr education. It is not my in-
tention to trespass upon the time of the house at any
considerable leugtb, and I am the less disposed to do so
because I am sorry to observe that., in consequence of
. the -unexpected termination of the discussion of the bill
which has occupied a good deal of attention this morn-
ing, many of those gentlemen who I knew were arxioua
to take a part in the discussion of my motion, if discus-
sion there shall be, or who, at all events, woull have
taken great interest in the subject, have left the house.
The first explanation which I desire to offer to the
house is, that this bill has bean so drawn as not t
contravene or reverie the decisions at which this
house arrived last year upon the resolutions moved by
the noble lord the member for the city of London. I wi
not now advert, for I have done so on previous occa-
sions, to the rather peculiar circumstances under which
• the house divided upon these resolutions. All that I
now wish to say is this, that putting a Parliamentary
construction upon the negativing them by a large maj
rity, the decision of last year amounted to this, that the
house disapproved the plan of the noble lord considered
as a whole. That plan was compulsory and general. I
have therefore drawn the bill which I seek to introduce
in such a manner as to make it, in two most important
respects, the exact reverse of the plan of the noble lord.
I propose a permissive instead of a compulsory, and a
local instead of a general, system of educetien. I em
aware of the objections to permissive legislation upon
important subjects. I entirely agree with the noblel ,rd
the member for the city of London in thinking that a
compulsory and genera' system of education would be
far more satisfactory sad beneficial than that which I
propose; but when I find that great doubts are enter-
tained by many people whose opinions are entitled to
great respect, as ti the success of a compulsory system,
, I think I have taken a part at once more prudent and
more respectful to the decisions of the house in proposing
a permissive rather than a compulsory plan. Entertain:
ing this opinion, I may naturally be allnwed to inquire
what precedents we have with respect to permissive 177
gislation, and whether they are encouraging or otherwise.
There are two very interesting and recent precedents of
that description. There is the act which was passed by
the hon, member for Dumfries to permit corporate towns
to levy rates for the estabi shment of libraress We find
has a paper recently laid upon the table that that bi'l
"aa been taken advantage of in five or six remarkable
!ales. I think the house will admit that to appeal to
the ratepayers of a town to establish a library for
Ihe benefit of those who are already educated is not
to
or
interest
appeal to their
like the extent of an appeal to them on behalf of those
who have never received any education whatever. I
shall be very well satisfied if the bill which I propose
shall be as successful as the Libraries Act of my hon.
friend. The next precedent to which I 'hall refer is
still more germane to this subject. I mean the act which
was passed some 16 or 17 eaago,
making it perinis-
siv to gnglish
untiecount ,to adopt
appeal
system if
p oleo This act direct app thef ratepayers
of counties to convent to tax thelmselVes
of very great public irupertance. And whautrwaasn tohbejent r
nit ? Half of the counties of England adopted that
acet.-•
I think that both of tho instances of permissive legisla-
thin to which I have referred are very
propose that the bid.s,hall be local and 'no.oneilicgateu,irigaailenisgn' andiits
Is
operation, and thalthi;
vs?haselllebeeteaTtphlieemd because the bowl-
eerporate towns.
daries of their jurisdiction are clearly defined. There
will, therefore, be no occasion to ma_
introduce any new m.
chinery for the purpose of defining the limits of the -ope-
ration of this bill. I believe that there are many persons
who entertain alarm respecting the op?ra lOTA of au
educational bill of a compulsory and general character,
but who are very desirous of trying a permissive plan
in soma cities and corporate towns as may choose to adopt
It. Ido not pretend to say that the necessity for the
plan which I propose is not as great in rural districts as
in corporate towns. (Rear.) I believe that our system of
national education is as defective in the rural districts as
in towns; but we roust bear in mind that it is in the latter
that a want of education works most evil, Toe state-
ments which I have made to the house on previous occa-
sions as to the necessity for an improvement in our system
of national education have never yet been disproved, al
though in some instances they have been contradicted ;
and they cannot be iiiipreved, because they rest on the
sure foundation of truth, For tho purpose of showing
the importance of introducing such a measure as this into
towns I may mention some statietics with regard to one of