The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-22 00:00:00

FRIDAY

1847 ,,, 74 6
1848 ... „, 43 3
Showing an average for the ten years of 52+.33. But,
curia:; the last three months, the avezage price cf. wheat
in Belgium had amounted to no more than 384. 3.1.
Then, again, he said, they had to deal with exceptionel
circumstances. He next came to 11ollsnd ; and trout
that country he found that our importations during the
la.t five years had been as f6llcws

Qrs.
1849 ••• ... 308,482
1848 • • ... ... 163,978
1847 ••• ... 11,800
1816
••• ••• ••• 473
1845 1,614
in Holland the average price of wheat during the last
ten yrars had been 54s 4d a quarter; and it was well
known that that was na importing rather than an ex-
porting country. He should next pass to the importa-
tions from Prussia and the surrounding districts, of
which the great part was hamburg h. Our imports
from that district had been in—.

1849 ••• 493Qr5,983
1848 ••• ... 532,550
1847 ••• 154,839
1846 ••• ... 126,573
1845 154,271
The average price of wheat at llamburgh from 1839 to
1848 had broil—
In 18'39 50s. per qr.
1840 ... 404.
1841
~„
~, 575,
1842 ...
,„ 365.
1343 ... •
... 355. 9d.
1844 295.
1845 ... „.. 495.
1846 •
... 51s.
1847 ... „, 43e.
1848
„, 45:.
showing an average price—of 44,. 91. But last year the
average price had fallen to 275. quarter. It had been
said that wheat could be purchased at an exceed-
ingly low rate in Prussia Proper; but he found
that in that country the average price of wheat
on the spot was 3Gs. a quarter, while the average
price at Dantzie was 495, 6d.; and allowing
4s. for the ceet of freightage to this country, that wheat
could not be sold here without any expense for landing
warehouses, and other charges, at less than about 545. a
quarter. Then again, he could perceive nothing in the
price of corn in the ports of the Black Sea which ought
seriously to alarm our farmers. But he might be asked
to what he would attribute the present low prices in this
country ? To such a question ho would, in the first
place, reply, that they were owing to the excessively hie!'
prices which had prevailed hero in the year 1847, and
which had given an unnatural stimulus to the cultivators
of the soil in all the great wheat growing countries of
Europe. In the second place, he must attribute those
low prices to the convulsed state of Europe during the
last few years, which had deranged all the ordinary
operations of commerce; and, in ,the third place, he
would attribute them to the alarm and the agitation
which prevailed amongst the agricultural classes, and
which deterred capitalists from investing ther money, as
they would otherwise :have done, in the purchase of
agricultural produce. But after having taken a minute
and careful survey of the whole of that snbject, he felt
convinced that the English farmer, from the great ad-
vantages which he enjoyed in the possession of large
capital, and proximity to the best markets in existence,
could successfully compete with the agriculturists of
any other portion of the world.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BUCK said that the free-trade law had been the
cause of ruin end desolation not only to the farmer and
the farmer's labourer, but also to the shop-keepers in the
agricultural towns, and that much as they had suffered
already he feared that they would suffer more before a
remedy was applied to their distressed condition. He
had attentively listened to the speech of the Honourable
Geutleman who spoke last (Mr. Wilson), and he could
not in it find anything that related to the resolution be-
fore the House, but he should allow that it was in unison
with the speeches of those Hon. Gentlemen who, for the
purpose of carrying their free-trade measure, travelled
dt
vei
scioounn tr y
andn odri tffh, er
ee
na set,: wbees
between
,ae
It! south,t h e
laanndd tl
oh
ru created
ds
and
his
tenant, and when they failed in effecting this, they
brought ruin and disaster on both. Ho would appeal to
their consciences, he would appeal to the honour of
honourable mon, and ask was justice done to the land-
lord, the tenant, or the labourer, by this measure of free
trade? Did he need an answer he had only to look
to the distress and dismay that prevails throughout
all the agricultural districts of England, Scotland
and It e.and. As to the predictions of the
Honourable Member, he, and he believed all of
his party (the Protectionists), held them in sovereign
contempt, for he had not heard one argument from the
free-traders that had the slightest tendency to remove
his fixed impression, or that seemed to wish to remove
distress and desolation from the country. The alarm
generally entertained, did not originate from a competi-
tion with the United States of America, but it arose
from the idea of placing the free-born Englishman in
competition with the serfs of Poland, a system that he
feared would ultimately banish the pride and stay of his
country to a foreign district, or force him to spend the
wretched remainder of his in a workhouse. He con-
tended that if proper encouragement were given by the
Legislature, that it would be found that there is not one
labourer too much for this country, and that all could be,
satisfactory to all patties, well employed. Again, he
would call the attention of the House to the financial
condition of the farmers, who state, that when they
came to the examination of their accounts, they found
that they had lost one-third of their capital since the
passing of those destructive free-trade measure. Add
to those losses the consequence of a bad harvest in this
country, and of a good one abroad, and he would ask
what then would be the price of British produce ? He
believed that it would be the means of reducing the price
of wheat to the low sum of four shillings per bushel,
and would also create regret in the late and present Go-
vernment, for persevering in so unjust a policy. They
were told on the other side of the House that the poor-
rates were decreased, but he was in possession of a re-
turn which would show that everything tended to depress
the landed interest. From all appearances he saw no
reason to hope that the landed interest would be very
much better }text year than in the present; on the con-
trary, he apprehended they would be very much worse.
The House should take care that they did not, by their
acts, depress the labouring interest more than it was at
present depressed; they should remember that it was to
that interest that this country was mainly indebted for
its greatness, and they
might depend upon it, if they
continued much longer to neglect that interest they
would endauger the monarchy, and this great country
would fall.

Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY felt that it would be
presumption in him to attempt to reply to the arguments
of the Right Hon. Berens t (Sir J. Graham), yet he felt
that he would not be discharging his duty to those with
whom ho was connected, if he did not give some expres-
sion to his opinions en this subjec'. The Right Hon.
Baronet had said that in the county cf Cumberland the
wages of the labourers were not decreased. However
that might be, he (Ur. G. Berkeley) must say that the
trade,i ot
h tithat which
tr atnh tedh
tete,
alatampti
nghs. Right
4i Hon. ne .r Baronetslah had
hd
ons no
the
nd
had so much boasted, had not yet reached the counties
counties he knew labouring classes were in a most
ob
distressedfeGnGloucestershire,
eogf
tee:. rrnsedhe W
trieo'n, a
alternative with respect to the employment of them but
e them altogether, or else employ them at
and the labourers in reply to that
then
ldfi s cv
‘h,
aagr ge
expressed their desire to work at half wages rather
than bo discharged. The Right Honourable Baronet
had expressed his opinion that the beceats of free
trade would he felt in the long run." Now, what
the Right Honourable Baronet meant by the " long
run"—(Laughter)--he could not say ; but this he
knew, that it had already ruined the tenant-farmers. He
(Mr. Grantley Berkt ley) was a tenant-farmer himself,
and ho felt the bail consequences of free trade very
severely. With respect to the gentlemen of the " Man-
chester School," be :nest say to them that they knew no
more of farming than he knew of the manufacture of
cotton. To the Ilon. Member for Westbury (Mr.
Wilson), who said he had adopted Wiltshire for his
county, he would say it mattered not whether he adopted
Wiltshire, or Wiltshire adopted him. But this he must
say, in reference is a statement of the lion. Gentleman
as to the excellent condition of the labourers in that
county, that they were actually working for six shillings
a week. With respect to the cotton trade cf Manchester,
he felt that the House and the country were not yet in
possession of the real !aeta on that subject. And now
he would ask, what had the Government done for the
country?
" noisy" gentlemen the Manchester school "ginger-
They had just done this—they had given the
bread" to stop their mouths, and had taken from the
farmers the flour that made it.—(Laughter.) The lion.
Member concluded by stating that he should give his sup-
port t s the motion, from a sense of its justice and a con-
viction cf its necessity.
Sir R. PEEL said—Whatever other motives I might
have for wishing to address the House on the subject
which has been brought forward with great ability and
with equal temperance and moderation, the necessity
which I feel to take a course different from that which
has been taken by
my Right Hon. Friend the Member
for the University of Oxford is a sufficient reason why I
should not wish to arrive at an opposite conclusion from
him without explaining the grounds upon which that
conclusion is based.— (Hear.) For my Right Hon.
Friend I base the greatest respect and esteem. I was
associated with him in the preparation of those measures
to the effect of which he partly attributes the conclusion
at which he has arrived. From him I derived the most
zealous and effective assistance, and it is some consola-
tion for me to hear from my Right Hon. Friend that
although epos this particular motion we have arrived at
different conclusions, his confidence in the justice of
those principles upon which he contended for the com-
mercial policy which of late soars has been adopted.
remains entirely unshaken.—(Hear, hear.) Before I
address myself to some remarks of my Right Hon.
Friend I wish to state, with respect to the agricultural
interest, that I do not deny that it is suffering consider-
able distress—(Hear, hear)—that for that distress I fee!,
on every account, the warmest sympathy. [An HON.
Mesinea on the Opposition benches--" Oh dear!"—
(Laughter and cheers.] I think the House will be of
opiuiot that I take the most becoming course in passing
by without further notice the inarticulate sounds with
which the Hon. Gent'e:nan has greeted me.—(Cheers.)
I wish to cons:der this subject with the respect to which
it is entitled from the resenitude of the interests involvel
in it.—(Cheers.) I believe those inarticulate sounds are
_ of them—(Hear, and laughter)—but T
about as powerful as what the Hon. Gentleman might
say in support
shall not he disturbed by them or prevented from enter•
ins; into the consideration of this subject with that tem-
per which ought to regulate this discuseion.(Hestr.) I
know not why the, Hon. Gentleman should doubt my
sympathy with the agricultural interest.—(llear.) My
own interests aro intimately connected with its prospe-

rity, and this I must say, that if any measures to which I
have been party, however con vine e I I may be of the gone -
mai policy and general benefit which would result to the
country from them, have affected any special or pecu-
liar interest with distreA, gee ater is the s3eapathy
which I should feel.—(Cheers.) I say this also, that if
it be true that the occupying tenants of this country
are unwilling to reduce the amount of labour, if they
are making exertions to prevent that distress from
which they may be suffesing, from visiting those on
whose labour they depend, they have on that account al
additional cla'm for our respectful consideration of their
distress.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not indeed, while I admit
tt.e distress that provails, view it with apprehension and
despondeney. I regret the condition of the agricultut al
interest. I do believe there are special and peculiar
causes affecting that interest.—(Bear.) I think it was
impossible to listen to the speech made in the course of
to-night by the lion. Member for Westbury without
feeling that there was a strong presumption that, at the
present moment, there are peculiar causes e'f depression
and distress. I refer also to the frequent occa.ions upon
which during the maintenance of protection the Crown in
the Speech from the throne spoke of the distress of the
agricultural interest. But, as I believe that now, when
protection has ceased, some of those causes which affected
the agricultural interest during the existence of protec-
tion are again operating, so do I trust that there will be a
recovery now, and I do hope that those who profess to
feel a deep interest in the prosperity of agriculture will
not prejudice theircause and affect their interest by the pro-
pagation of undue alarm.—(Hear, hear.) This course
had been taken on former occasions. Now I see that
course taken. I see professors of agriculture in Scot-
land telling the Scotch farmers, the producers of oats,
that Indian corn can be introduced into this country at
12s. per quarter ; and that it is utterly impossible for
them to compete in the market with the productions of
the United States.—(Bear, hear.) They are giving
them that ieformation as to the price at which Indian
tern can be imported at the very time when, instead of
I2s. a quarter being the price at Liverpool, Limerick,
Cork, or Dublin, you find that the price of Indian corn
is fluctua7ing probably between 275. and 315. per quar-
ter. I was not present during the early part of the
speech of tho Honourable Member for Northampton-
shire. lam told that in that speech he snide a personal
appeal to me, and asked mo on what ground I thought
there was an undue depression of the price of agricul-
tural produce. I think there is, probably, au undue
depression, because I find in commercial countries,
and countries which have the advantage, if they
consider it to be so, of protection, the same depres-
sion of price, and the :same complaints which exist in
this country. I find that tho depression of price exists
not evithetanding the markets of England have been open
—(Hear, hear)—notwithstanding that there has been an
unusual demand for that agricultural produce. I find in
France, in Belgium, our nearest neighbours, each country
.having, until a very late period, a law giving ample pro-
tection to native produce, their agriculture extremely de-
pressed in price, and their occupying tenants complain-
ing of the impossibility of cultivating land. I say there
does appear, then, to be pervading many countries of
Europe the same cause of depression of price of which
we have complaints in this country. Whether or no
some causes may not affect them, whether or no suc-
cersive harvest of three or four years may not have sti-
mulated production, whether or no the price of corn may
not have been depressed by an unusual harvest following
successive years of scarcity, I will not undertake to say;
the fact remains unquestionable that in many coun-
tries of Europe, having the advantage of protection
there were the same complaints of the lowness of
prices and the distress of the agricultural interes*. Since
I entered the House two documents have been put into
my hands which bear upon the subject. Ono is a trade
circular, issued at Antwerp, dated Feb. 9, 1850, and it
refers to the state and prospects of agriculture in that
part of the cont'nent. The circular says:—" At our
to-day's market the trade generally ruled dull, and the
turn in prices was in savour of the buyers, though we do
not expect an important decline, the value of the corn
being already too depressed to pay the rents of our
farmers." The other document Ls a paper of similar
description, bearing the same date as the former, and
issued at Nantes. This circular states:—" Prices of
corn are for the present very low everywhere in Europe,
but, taking into consideration the good quality of some
produces of our growth, sand of our beat brands of flour,
combined with the low freight obtainable now, we con-
sider that our market deserves the attention of every one
willing to risk interest of money at a low Cato against
the chances of a rise, whilst a further decline is quite
improbable, as needy sellers have everywhere disposed
of their crops, and also noticing that the continuance of
the pretest prices in this part of France would soon in-
volve the ruin of the land° I interest." Here are two
countries which have the advantage of free entry into
the English market, combined with protection of native
produce; and when I see it stated that in them
the price of agricultural produce is depressed to such a
degree as that it is alleged the farmers must all be
ruined, it leads me to the conclusion that causes other

than the removal of protection here have mainly contri-
buted to the production of our distress; and I say, also,
it is probable that the same cause which has produced
our depreciation of prices is operating generally
throughout a great part of the continent. There is one
circumstance which relieves my anxiety for the condi-
tion and prospects of agriculture; I witness with the
greatest satisfaction the increasing consumption of the
people.—(Hear, hear.) It is in the tendency to in-
creased consumption that I see not only an indication of
general prosperity, but I hope also of improvement of
agricultue. In the course of the last year, in addition
to a great consumption of native produce, the people of
this country have not only imported, but consumed and
paid fur, by the produce of their own labour, 5,600,000
quarters of wheat.—(Hear, hear.) This consumption of
fireign grain has not diminished the consumption of
wheat of our own production. In 1849, as compared
with 1848, there has been an increase in the consump-
tion of British wheat, and concurrently with that the
enormous consumption of 5,600,000 quarters of foreign
wheat has occurred.—(Loud cries of "Hear.") Ob-
serve, I do not speak of Indian corn, or oats, or rye, but
of the noblest grain, namely, wheat-;—has there been
this increased consumption?—(Cheers.) By whom has
that wheat bean consumed?—(hear, hear.) If we are
seeking for proofs of the improved condition of the
country, why need we refer to any other details? Is not
the simple fact I have stated sufficient in itself to deter-
mine the point?—(Cheers.) 5,600,000 quarters of fo-
reign wheat have been imported, paid for, and consumed!
—(Cheers repeated.) By whom? Not by the upper
classes. I will venture to say that the quantity of
bread eaten by the arist )cracy has little increased in
amount.—(Hear, hear.) The quantity consumed in
their establishments has little increased. Looking to the
middle classes—to those who ale in a state of compa.
rative effluence—the probability is that in times of pros-
perity their consumption of luxuries increases, but not
materially their consumption of the great elements of
human life.—(Hear, hear.) No; this increase of con-
sumption has taken place in consequence of the better
condition of nose who live by labour.—(Cheers.)
You cannot have an increased consumption of
millions of quarters unless you have raillions of
mouths to e.et them.—(Cheers.) I want, then,
no other indication of general prosperity—excepting of
course the agricultural class, whose distress I admit—l
want no other indication of the general ease and increas-
ing comfort of the people than the striking fact that
there has been an increase in the consumption of bread,
and bread of the best quality, which is terfectly unpa-
ralleled in the history of this couutry.—(Lear, hear.)
Well, then, if you can only continue that consumption—
if, by your legislation, under the favour of Providence,
you can maintain the demand for labour and make your
trade and manufactures prosperous, you are not only in-
creasing the sum of human happiness, but are giving the
agriculturists of this country the best chance of that in-
create I demand which must contribute to their welfare.
[ cannot but think that when we look to such masses of
population as are collected in places like Manchester,
Birmingham, and the gre it iron districts—when
wo consider what is the nature of the demand for
agricultural produce—that it is not limited to corn,
but extends to meat, milk, cheese, butter, and
other articles—l cannot help thinking, I say, that,
taking into consideration the capital and skill of
our agriculturists, and, above all, ~the natural and
local advantages enjoyed by them, they need not fear
comretition with the agriculturists of any other country.
—(Cheers.) When I gave my assent to the address in
answer to the speech from the throne, it was not env be-
lief teat the latter cast any slight on the &stress of the
agricultural interest. I understood the speech from the
throne to a limit the existence of that distress, and to ex-
press sincere regret at the circumstance. If I had not
put that construction upon the Royal speech—if I had
thought that it was opan to the objection of treating the
complaints of the agriculturists slightingly, and imply-
ing that they were ill-founded and unworthy of notice,
the address to the throne would not have received my
support. I now apply myself to the speech of my Right
Hon. Friend the member for Oxford University, and
will proceed t) state the grounds on which I have come
to a conclusion different from that at which he has
arrived. My Right Hon. Friend takes up the motion
of the Eon. Member Ix Buckinghamshire, and
says he is at perfect liberty to dismiss all ex-
trinsic considerations connected with it, and to
consider it only as an abstract proposition. Now,
there I diffrr from my Right Honourable Friend. It
it is all very well to say to a young Member of this
House, "I make a proposal for the House to resolve
itself into Committee, in which the whole question will
be open for consideration. Go into Committee; hear
my proposal; reject what is objectionable, and modify
what is capable of modification. Do this, and you will
conscientiously discharge your duty; and, even should
part of my proposal. you will at least
you agree to no
have the merit of showing your sympathy for the farmer."
But what construction will the occupying tenant and the
agricultural interest generally put upon the motion of
the Hon. Member? How may their hopes be excited
with respect to it? I must do the Hun. Member fir
Buckinghamshire the justice to say that he is not
chargeable with any attempt at deception.—(Hear, hear.)
But Hon. Members must consider the circumstances
under which we are discussing this question.—(Hear,
hear.) I all not now certain what was meant by the
amendment t) the address on
.the first 'day of the
session; but I thought that the issue taken on that
amendment was whether protec tun should be renewed or
nut. The Hon. Metnber for Northamptonshire has to-
night fairly stated that that was the issue then
raised, and that, the Lords and Commons baring de-
cided the question in the negative, he does not advise
his friends to occupy the Hou,o with needless
debates,
which must end in nothing. In fact the Hon. Member
evidently looks upon the question of protection as de-
eided.—(No, no.) I do not mean decided permanently;
but I am sure that if the lion. Member who cries "No"
had heard the speech of the Hon. Member fir North-
amptonshire, he would have iefsrred from it that, as far
" the present Parliament is concerned, he deems the re-
vival of protection hopele .s.—(LTear, hear.) The Hon.
Member for Buckinghamshire now makes a mien for
-the purpose of giving the agricultural interest the CQUI-

pensation to which he thinks it is entitled on account of
the removal of protection. Last year the Hon. Member
contended that the amount of bureleas unfairly borne by
the landed interest, including the land-tax was not less
than 14,000,00 W. This session the lion. Member, with I er-
feet propriety, comes forward and says—" I will not, cn
this occasion, bring forward my extended scheme—l con-
fine my proposition at present to the removal of taxation,
unfairly bearing on the agricultural interest
it, the
ex-
tent of 2,000,0001 ; but du not be ds ceived—this s only the
first of a series of measures—(llear, bear)—others will
follow incorporating the same principle, and aft I. you
have coneente I to these measures, I will avail inyseit of
the earliest epportunity of renewing the protection to
which the agricultural interest is entitled.—(Cheers.)
The Honourable Member has given us distinct notice
that the success of his present proposal will not clot c the
account, and that it is not a measure with which the
agricultural interest ought to be satisfied; that it is only
a partial and a small instalment, and that if we pay the
instalment he will prosecute the claim fir the remainder.
—(Cheers.) My night Honourable Friend, therefore,
cannot say that he is deceived by this motion.—(Hear,
hear.) Now, let us see what the proposition of the
Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire is, and whether its
adoption would really benefit the class for whose ad-
vantage it is intended. I wish to consider the proposi-
tion relatively to its bearing on the finances of the
country. The proposal made is us is this, that previously
to any exposition of the financial condition of the
country by the Chancellor of the Exchequer we shall by
a vote of this House determine that 2,000,0001. of taxa-
tion shall be placed as a charge on the Cunsolidated
Fund. For the sake of simplifying the matter I will
assume that the balance in the Exchequer is exactly
2,000,000/. I beg the House to consider the effect which
the success of the Hon. Member's motion must have
upon the financial prospects of the year, and also whether
it would benefit the class which it is intended to serve.
I am asked to consent to the first of a series of measures
which immediately appropriates the whole of the surplus
of the present year, and prospectively appropriates the
surplus of several succeeding years. Is this course of
proceeding desirable even for the interest of the class
whose cause the Hon. Member advocates, and which I
admit to be labouring under embarrassment? I under-
stand that the Hon. Member has declared out of this
House that one great source from which he anticipated
relief to the agricultural interest was the maintenance of
public credit, thereby lowering the rate of interest,
and giving landed proprietors facilities for re-
lieving themselves from the charges to which they
were now subjected. Although I differed from the lion.
Member as to the mode by which he would constitute a
surplus, yet I thought there was great force in the sug-
gestion. If, without augmenting taxation, you can
maintain public credit, support the price of the funds,
and thereby diminish the rate cf interest and enable the
landed interest, by perfectly legitimate means, to relieve
itself from a portion of its difficulties, you doubtless
achieve a gfeat object. My Hon. Friend the Member
for Surrey said, the other night, that we ought to have
settled the mortgage question before repealing the corn-
laws. Is he going to settle that question by destroying
our surplus?—(Hear.) My Hon. Friend, of course,
meant it to be understood that the landed interest have
heavy mortgages upon their property, contracted, let
me observe, under a system of protection.—(Hear,
hear.) What a picture of landed property did he draw!
He pictured to us estates so overburdened with debt that
their owners could have no alternative but to sell their
property. From what period do these incumbrances
date ? Can there be a stronger argument against pro-
tection than is furnished by my Hon. Friend's account of
the present condition of landed property ?—(Hear,
Lear.) Admit the account to be correct, you want to
enable landed proprietors to borrow money at three ler
cent., in order to pay off mortgages which are now car-
rying interest at 4i or 5 per cent. Is the sissy to do
that to tell the fundhclder that all tile surplus of the
present year shall be appropriated, and not only that,
but to give notice that whenever we have any surplus
for some time to coma, it shall be appropriated in like
manner, and the amount charged on the Consolidated
Fund ?—(Cheers.) I regretted to hear my Hon.
Friend speak so lightly of the maintenance of public
credit. Let me tell him that if any measure should be
adopted which would have the effect of destroying con-
fidence in the funds and in the maintenance of public
credit, it would furnish but a short-lived triumph. The
same blow which strikes the public creditor will reach
the landed interest.—(Cheers.) Lot king at the bear-
ing of the proposal before us upon the financial condi-
tion of the country, it would be a most precipitate and
unwise act on the part of this House, in the absence of
any official exposition of our financial state, to appro-
priate the whole of the pretest surplus, and to pledge
itself to a principle involving the appropriation of the
surplus of future years. Thera are two questions to
be considered—first, whether we shall maintain a surplus
and thereby raise the price of funds and benefit the agri-
cultural interest in the nay suggested by the Hon.
Member for Buckinghamshire, by enabling them to
borrow money at a low rata of interest, and, secondly,
in the event of its being determined not to maintain a
surplus, how shall we apply it in the remission of taxa-
tion so as to confer the greatest amount of benefit on all
the interests of the country, the agricultural interest in-
cluded? But the proposal of the Hon. Member for
Buckinghamshire would at once preclude me from enter-
ing upon the consideration of those two questions.—
(Hear, hear.) My Right Hon. Friend the Member for
the University of Oxford desires a revision of taxation,
and says he hopes to son the duty on timber, and the
duty on bricks repealed at an early period. How can
he hope for that if he leaves no surplus?—(Cheers.)
Without a surplus, bow is it possible to make a re-
mission of taxation? How can you remit taxes which
undoubtedly bear upon the agricultural interest if
you pledge yourself to transfer charges borne by
real property to the Consolidated Fund? I must say
that there are considerations of the utmost importance
connected with the question of the reduction of taxes.
Look at the duty on bricks. I must declare, most re-
spectfully. to the agricultural interest that it; by any
transfer of taxation to the Consolidated Fund, you pre-
clude the Chancellor of the Exchequer from fairly con-
sidering whether or not the duty on bricks can be re-
pealed, you are taking a course most injurious to your
own interest.—(Cheers.) See how unfairly the duty
on bricks operates in different parts of toe country.
Those parts of the couutry which abound in coal, and
have also the advantage of stone, possess every facility
for the construction of houses. Other parts of the
country, possessing no coals, and having no command
over stone, are obliged to depend upon bricks ; and a
heavy excise duty interferes with the building of houses
for the poorer portion of the community. If a e could
get the duty on bricks removed, at a cost to the Exche-
quer of 600,0001., it is my deep conviction that the agri-
cultural interest would be more benefited thereby than
by the success of the present proposal. All real property
would benefit by the repeal of the brick duty. Look
at the influence of the duty on the sanitary condition of
towns—a subject to which public attention is closely di-
rected at present. I cannot conceive that anything would
tend more to the improvement of towns than the removal
of this duty. The direct interest that the agricultural
classes have in enabling the landlord to improve the
firm-buildings of the occupying tenant, has also been
adverted to. I do believe that that improvement of f!rm-
buildings by the landlord, for the advantage of the
tenant—for the preservation of implements and for the
feeding of cattle—will be one great cause of agricultu-
ral prosperity—(Heir, hear)—that it will be of the
tamest import ince.—(flear, hear.) But these benevo-
lent de iigns cf the landlord are now counteracted by
an Excise duty on bricks— (Hear, hear.) What has
been the consequence of the removal of Excise du-
ties ? Why, you are not to estimate the advantage
merely by the relief from the pecuniary burden.
You have the officers of Excise interfering with
your operations—(Hear, hear)—the regulations pre •
venting the construction of the article except according
to a certain size—(dlesr)—there is the constant fear
of a prosecution for fraud—there is the impediment to
the exercise of ingenuity.—(Hear, hear.) Remove the
brick duty, and let them make bricks without requiring
their being nine inches long, and so many inches wide,
and so many inches thick—(Hear, hear)—what an im-
mediate direct advantage would the agricultural intsrest
derive from such a removal of a pecuniary burden, and
from such an encouragement to the exercise of industry.
hear.)__ Now, I don't know whether lion.

Members generally have •read the papers laid upo❑ the
table almost since, or not above two or three days before,
the lion. Gentleman made this motion—papers relating
to a question of vital importance to the condition of the
country—l mean the operation of the law of settlement.

--(hear, hear.) The consideration of that question will
be forced upon you. It would be premature to enter
upon it now; but I wish you would read the able reports
that bare been made by the gentlemen who have been
instructed to inquire int ) that subject, and you will
understand the difficulties which arise at present
from the want of cottages for the labourers
in certain districts.—(Hear.) You will see what is the
effect upon the health and comfort of the labouring poor
from the very imperfect dwellings in which they now re-
side.—(Hear.) You will find accounts that, in some
instances, labourers come to the farm on which they are
employed upon donkeys, in consequence of the distance
of their residence from the place of their employment.—
(Laughter, and loud cries of " Hear.") These things
are not, and I am sure they ought not to bo beneath
your consideration.—(Cheers.) If such is the condition
of the labourer, that in order to have employment upon
one farm there are more than twenty donkeys upon
which the labourers ride to that daily employment—(A
laugh)—it may be a subject for ridicule, but it is one
that suggests topics for very serious consideration.—
(Cheers.) There are other men whose strength is
exhausted by the length of the distance which they have
t) come to labour; and others are forced into villages
where they are paying 41. or 51. a year for their housers.
r.
t
cCries
(Hear.) Well, encourage the construction of ona
o
( of
able cottages by removing the brick d uty.
there
" Hear.") Alter your law of settlement, so
that
shall be no discouragement to their finding those com-
fortable habitations.—(hear.) Consider the law t o set-
admittlement in conjunction with other matters.
dmit they are part of a
Ba iff
you
their importance—if you a
vote to-night preclude yourself from
the consideration
series of important considerations, do not by n sudden
whethe.r. you may not othaeda.vra)ncelethtehme
present
statebyawisere of themission
of taxation.—(llea
public
revenue, I certainly, Mere I give any opinion
upon the extent to which the remission of taxation can
be carried, shall wait to hear the financial statement of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Hear, hear.) We
are speaking of a peculiar period. Next year the
question of the income-tax must be brought under re-
siew.—(Hear.) It may be of the greatest importance
to reservei f
efoere t consideration
shallw hc t hheer
tihteth shelle d fibeea
tcioo
en
tinued ;s-
-made in it. But by the decision of to night you will
compel the continuance of the income-tar,—(Cries cf
" No," and " Hear, hear.") Nay, but if you do not,
then you mean to revive the import duties upon food.
—(hear,—(hear, hear.) I entreat any
Hon. triend to
consider
you mean not only to appropriate the
surplus
present year, but the surplus of future
for that.t
h e If

years, and also mean to take a course which shall dis•
penile with the income-t ix, then indeed you do manifest
what is your intention—(llear, hear)—urged by my
Hon. Friend the Member for Surrey (Mr. 11. Drum-
mond), vita upon every article imported from foreign
countries there should be a duty. —(Hear.) Those view a
of my Hon. Friend must be carried out if you appropti-
ate your surplus read also refuse the income-tax.—
(Hear, hear.) But my Hon. Friend says that the great
struggle is between capital and labour, b. tween money
and I.f It is an epigrammatic way of stating his views.
•—(A laugh.) He is the great advocate for labour against
capital, and for life against money. And what is the
practical course which he advises us to pursue? To re-
move the taxation from capital aid to place it upon
labour.—(Hear, hear.) Nay, more—my Hon. Friend
says, "I never will be satisfied until the labourer can
bake his own bricks, collect his own hops, brew his own
malt." Well, then, why won't my Hon. Friend " never
rest satisfied" unless the labourer can eat his bacon
without paying a duty if be gets it from abroad—(" Oh!'
and" Hear, hear")—and —and his breed also?—(Cheers.) The
advocate for labour against capital, for life against money,
the man who says, "we never shall hoar the last of
it until the labourer can gather his own hops from his
hedge and make his own bricks," won't allow us to repea
the duty upon bricks.—(" Hear," and dissent.) I say you
are taking a course which makes it impossible for you to
do so.—(Hear, hear.) If indeed you say you are care-
less about public credit—(Hear, hear)—you may do all
these things; you may appropriate surplus and repeal
income duty also; but I say you will make it impossible
to maintain your obligations to the public creditor if you
make these extensive alterations.—(Hear.) But now
let us see what this proposal will be so far as the interest
of the occupying tenant is concerned. I will make ne
distinction between the occupying tenant and the owner.
My belief is that the occupying tenant would, for the
present at least, derive some benefit from this measure.
I do believe that there is, on the part of the landed pro-
prietors, that feeling towards their tenantry which
would lead to that—(flear, hear)—even if, according to
the strict rules of economical science, they might be en-
titled to increased rent.—(Hear, hear.) I will waive any
advantage to the argument, then, upon that point; I
will admit that this is a plan from which the occupying
tenant might derive advantage; but let us estimate the
full amount of his profit. This is also a proposal to re-
lieve, not the land, but roil property, from a charge to
which it is subject; the charge I assume t., be
2,000,0001., which is to be transferred from real pro-
perty to the Consolidated Fund. Just let us consider
some of the circumstances connected with this. As has
been said repeatedly, this is no tax upon land exclu-
sively—it is u tax upon real property; and the propor-
tion in which land has contributed to this tax
has been gradually diminishing; in consequence of the
increasing prosperity of commerce and manufactures
that portion which falls upon other descriptions of real
property has been increasing. If you had made an es-
timate with respect to the payment of these 2,000,0001.
in 1826, when the land paid 69 per cent., you would have
failed 1,380,000/. of the 2,000,0004 paid by the land; in
1833, 1,260,0001.; in 1841, 1,040,0001,; and in 1849, only
900,000/. cf the 2,000,0004 would be paid by the lurid.—
(Hear, hear.) So that since 1826, in consequence of the
improvexent in manufactures and commerce, and the
increase of houses, there has been a gradual tendency,
as things have existed and as they now continue, to re-
lieve the lauded interest by transferring this charge to
other property. There is an increase of populatiou;
there is a diminution of charge on account of the poor,
a diminution of charge owing to the diminished price of
provisions; there is the reduc!ion of the price per head
of those you maintain, from 13s. to Ga.; there are abate-
ments of the charge upon the land; but at present, of
the charge of 2,000,000/. you will purchase a remission
of 900,000/. for yourselves by relieving another descrip-
tion of property to the amount of 1,100,0001. Now, will

you let me 2.k you what claim !or relief has that
other description of property?—(Bear, hear.) It is not
land; no doubt it is real property, but it consists of
houses, of mills, and manufactories, the owners of which
have been directly benefited, according to our own ad-
mission, by those recent changes in your legisli.tion.—
(Hear, hear.) Up to the present hour we have heard
that the landowners have been sacrificed to the mill-
owners; that the Manchester school have been predomi-
nant; that they have gained great advantages; that the
reduction in the price of provisions has been fir their
exclusive benefit. Well, in order that you may gain a
remission of taxation yourselvts to the amount of
900,0001 a year, you are going to relieve others whose
position is directly opposite to your own—namely, the
owners of this other description areal property,who have
benefited by this legislation, from larger burdens they
are now bearing—burdens which ate constantly increas-
ing upon them, to the reduction of those which are borne
by you. Now, what reason is there for this? And will

the occupying tenant be benefited by a change which
is certainly to remove 900,0004 from the laud, but which
will remove from this other description of property
1,100,0004 that the occupying tenant with others must
make up by taxation?—(Hear, hear.) What is the
amount of the benefit which any occupying teeatit can
receive? I admit to you, for the sake of argument, that
the benefit is exclusively for him and not for the land-
lord. What is the amount of it? It is about 3d. or 4d.
in the pound—but he will have to bear increased taxa-
tion in order to make up that transfer cf. the 1,100,0001,
to the Consolidated Fund.—(Hear, hear.) What, then,
is the position of this occupying tenant ? You are pre-
venting the consideration of a remission of the taxes
which bear upon him ; you are going to reduce the
amount of his present payments to the extent of 3d. or
4d. in the pound, but that advantage must be diminished
by the increased charge which be will have to bear in
order to make up fur the loss caused by the transfer of
the I,loo,ooo4—(heer. hear.) Is is my firm persuasion
that the occupying ter ant will derive no benefit wLat-
ever—(Beer, bear)—none whatever which can compen-
sate him for the loss to which you are about to subject
him.—(Hear, bear.) I say, therefore, that this proposal
is in itself an impolitic one, even so far as it concerns
the interests of those whom it is especially intended to
benefit.—(Hear, hear.) My belief is that agriculture—
the landed interest —the occupying tenants will find
their advantage much better consulted by leaving it open
to consideration whether any remission of public taxa-
tion shall be made which unduly prestei upon them,
and that can be removed, than by merely taking this
small per-centage upon what they pay, and preventing
the consideration of all those other questions which are
of so mach pressing interest. So far, therefore, as their
interest is concerned, I decidedly object to the proposal.
I object to it upon another ground—that it is a reversal of
that financial policy upon which we have beau acting for
some time past.—(gear, hear.) I must maintain that in
1842 the apportionment of public taxation was most un-
just; that tabour was unduly burdened; that there was
scarcely an article which entered into the consumption
of the poor man which was not heavily charged; the
cheese, the butter, the bacon, the pork, everything that
ho consumed, if brought nom a foreign country was sub-
ject to high taxation.—(Bear, hear.) The price of those
articles has been reduced, according to your own admis-
sion. Reduced by what? Reduced, I presume, by free
competition, by the unrestricted import from foreign
countries of that produce upon which he lives. Now,
your are about to remove from real property a charge of
2,000,0004; and to impose it upon those whose condi-
tion you considered in 1842, whom you thought unduly
aggrieved by the pressure or taxation,whom you sought to
relieve, whom you did relieve, and a hose effeetion and
gratitude you received in return.—(llear.) Some com-
plain t,f the tea duty, others of the soap duty, others of
the window-tax; you are preventing the consideration
of all these questions by appropriating this surplus.
You are preventing the relief which it might be pos-
sible to give—relief much more valeable, much more
extensive—by transferring this charge from the quatter
where it is at present borne, and piecing it upon the
consolidated feud. I object to the justice of that trans-
tea—(Beer, hear.) Idu not say that there may not be
some burdens now borne by the land in respect of which
there might not be relief • I admitted in 1846 that I
thought the land was unduly burdeaed, that I thought
the afford mment of taxation was not just.—(llear,
hear.) I attempted to give relief by transferring the
whole charge of criminal prosecutions, the whole eharge
of the Irish police, half the charge of medical relief, the
charge of schools, to the consolidated fund. Well, I ens
not prep ired to say that full and complete relief was
given in that respect—(hear)--I Sun not prepare] to
say that the charge for vaccination, or the militia, or
the registration, does not fall within the same principle.
But I know this—that you would laugh at me if I were
to go into the Committee which the Hon. Gentleman
moves, and then to say—as my Right Hon. Friend pos-
sibly may—" I think there is a capital case made out
for the vaccination charges being transients.' to the
consolidated fund, but I am sorry to inform the occupy-
ing tenant that I have ao other relief to give him.'
(A. laugh.) Even if I were to say that lunatic asylums
are within the same principle, and the charge for
them might properly be transferred to the consolidated
fund, I know that I should hear from fArmers
that I gave a most decisive proof of being fit to be au
inmate of one of these asylums by making such
a proposition after the hopes which bad bean
excited.—ti s
i
(Laughter and cheers.) Sir, myniain objectionof
ourfinancial
policy.—(Hear,proposal is, as I said, that it s a reversal
I believe the welfare of this
country is intimately connected
) with the relief of indus-
try from
taxation.—(Cheers.) believe there is no
hear.)
more powerful instrument by which you can promote
contentment and peace and satisfaction with your legis-
lation, than by convincing those who live by labour that
we, the landed proprietors—that the aristocracy of this
country are willing to submit to any sacrifice which shall
relieve from taxation those articles upon which they
depend for subsistence.—(Hear, hear.) I believe you
have reaped the full advantage of the remission of such
taxation.—(Hear, hear.) I believe you have had duting
the last three or fur trying years more contentment,
more submission to privation—(heer, hear)—more un-
affected loyalty—(Hear, hear)—more of refusal to listen
to the designs of seditious men—(!Tear, hear)—of men
agitating for their own benefit—(liter, hear)—than you
could have expected under any other state of things.—
(Hear, hear.) The burdens you may intend to impose
may be light; this " first of a series of measeres" may
in a small degree affect the labour and industry of this
country; but you will be alarming those who labour by the
indication of repentance as to the course you took.—(Hear.)
The relief you give all be found inadequate; there
will be a fresh demand; your intention of subjecting to
duty everything which comes from foreign countries
will be fortified by the proof of the little a 'vantage that
you will derive from this small modicum of relief ; and
you will probably end, if you are strong enough to pre-
vail, by the re-imposition of duties, if not cot responding
in amount, at least in principle, with those which et ere
removed in 1842, and by the system of commercial policy
which has bean since adopted.—(lltae, her.) I ear-
ne aly and sincerely deprecet.e that course.—(Hear,
hear.) I deprecate it as uejust i.O itself---(Hear, hear)
—I deprecate it as impolitic from its tendency to shake
confidence in your deliberations.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I
have b( en f./r the last three or four months exposed to
charges, as the house is well aware—to the revival of
charges of having acted uufaithfully and treachersusly