The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-20 00:00:00

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.

PROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF TESTER-1)1Y. ,r1!1
I • •
GLOBE.—The debate on. Lord Ashley'atiroposition
to limit the hours for women and ehildren..ernployed in.
factories to ten houM, was resumed last night: After a
protracted but highly interesting discussion, it.was car-
ried. Sir Jollies Graham had proposed that thellank
shotild be filled up with • " twelve'-' hours.; and was sup-
ported by the members of the Governreent. The lesser
number of hours wai,"however, adopted by the
Commit-
tee; by a majority of nine • the nutebers being—for the
amendment, 179; againstaital.7o, _ Ministers thus sus;
tamed a defeat,- which, thoagb .net Of, ,apaety,aliaracter,
is sufficiently , mortifying, . and, may occasion conai7
derable embarrassment to them, on other queations.
The' observations made by Sir James Graham, after
the numbers were tinfitiunced, showed' that he was taken
by surprise. lie intimated an• intention--.if, - when the
question came- before the Committee in a more sub-
stantive form, a. similar result was obtained—to abandon
the Bill as ,a Government measure, and thus east 'the
responsibility upon the House. With this admonition
to the adherents of the Governmena, there is .no reason
to expect that. the clause as it now stands will: be adhered
to. Lord Ashley, and those who voted with.himawill.
either give way, and allow twelve hours to be intro-
duced as the limited duration of factorylabour, or the
Bill will be withdrawn. A reference to our repeat- of
the' diseuision will show that the propositions of Sir
James Giaham and Lord Ashley . were respectively.
supported and opposed without silly reference to.
mere. party politics, and even with an avoived- change,
of Oanuon in. leading in•lividuals, on. loth aides of
the-House. Sir George. Grey, Lord Howick,, Lord,
John Russell, and others' of lesser _note .on, the Oppo-
sition- benches, who had in 1838 and 1839 sup-
ported the twelve hours -term of labour, now spoke.and
voted in favour of Lord 'Ashley's 'proposed limitation
of the period of laboUr to ten hours; while Load Eliot,
and others on the Ministerial bencheS,- who now 'sup-
ported the proposition of twelve hours, were, then found
among .the approvers of. the
.ten houra. .This ‘change. of
views, on animportant practical questionahavieg no con- .
section with party, must be referred to.the effect preduced
upon candid and inquiring-minds by the force of evidence
subsequently adduced. With singular 'bad .taste, and
with `that unfortunate forgetfulness of strikina pas-
sages
in his O%iri hiStory, which he thus brings to the
reeelleciion Of' every body else, Sir James Graham
taunted Sir GCorge Grey with an abandonthent of his
former views on this question ; and thuS dreW down
upon himself another of. those.. rejoinders' which such
provocations to retaliate generally
_produce :77-" 'the
Right Honourable Baronet opposite had charged him
(Sir-G. Grey) with personal inconsistency With regard
to his vote of 1839. The Right -Honourable „Baronet
ought to have some little' charity on the score of in
consistency.—(Laughter and cheers.) . Since 1839
much information had been collected,- and Ilia regard
for consistency should not . induce him to disregard
the alight: -that had been thrown upon the subject."
On-the important principles anvolved, toe question
which had thus occasioned so striking a change of opia
nion, and consequently of action, in some of the leading
statesmen of the country, of both parties, it would be
deemed boldness, approaching to presumption, were we
to expresi ourselves in' terms Of positive decision. It
becomes us rather to pause and eiareitie; than to
eammit ourselves to a view, whiCh we niayle dom-•
polled, by the, foroe 'of testimony, to reconsider ; and
having done so, to medify,:if not reverae, the judge
meet we had hastily .cleliv_ered. With this view we
rather refer our readers...tee:the debate,:that they may
form their own judgment on the-case, as presented by
the speakers leith sides;; i They *ill thus be put in
possession of the history of legislative interference with
factory labetir ; had the effecta of that interference on
the trenches of mannfactiire'tea*hieh that !interference
has applied, and .on the' Of.' capital' and the
interests of industry;
.**whiaji..lt has interfered.
We were . particularly. etanek..With`,a passage in Mr.
Labouchere's speech, and by a. annilai.one in that of.
Sir Robert Peel, in which thea.effects: of the pro-
posed restriction of the hours ;of labour .would .have
upon the wages of the labourers, are described... Though
the ton hours' clause only refers to Women and children,
the clause will, in its practical_ operation, affect men
also ;
.as the departments of factory labour in which
women and children are.
.employed,' must be kept in
motion, in order that theSaeepumed by the men may be'
available to the general, design. Hp*_ is the
in Wag-es, which .the` diminished amount of
,leboUr will
occasion, to be Supplied ?a',This excision .of one-
sixth from the earnings of those who will thus be pre7
vented from .pursuingabi`-tarnPloymente on which they
depend for su stetice; Mt* ,be 'faille wed by privations
extending araanie'-siath 'of' aggregate of their
present supply. In the times''of Fa-Mt-demand' for goods,
fabricated by the labour of these police*: their increased
wages may tear the:diminutionl, but whenahe demand
is _slack, and .wages low7--When labour, taxed .to ,its
limit; will scarcely precure a Sufficiency of bread-:athe
privations inflicted lay, this well-ineent, but questionable
benevolence. will be increased. ,--By limiting lab Our, the
power of obtaining. the ',essentials ofhuman. existence
must be, to the lame extentadlininiahed. • •
STANDARD.—,The second triumph of-the night was
a glorious oneindeed—". The carrying of Lord Ashley's
clause in the Eactcay Bill by a majority.of aline:7 We
lamentahat her. Majesty's aaliniaters voted in the mi-
nority. It is the first time theyhave so voted, because
it is the first time they have been wrong. We impugn
not their motives. The question is .a. difficult.
one, for when did +it .'.ever . happen; that the
retreat from a -wrong path was not . difficult;
but the retreat must be made at some time, and the
earlier the less its difficulties.- , In the present , case, the
difficulties are less: than they seem. The 'simple fact
that multitudes. of millowners voluntarily work 'under,
the terms of Lord Ashley's clause, proves .that .. it
is possible to work under . these terms, without. ne-
cessarily raising priees or. reducing wages.. And. it
is plain, that if mills can be worked psofitably at
short time, subject 'to . the disadvantage .of competition'
with mills working long:timeathere can: be no.reaso_n to
doubt that allnuty be profitably. worked when .all work
short time ? Indeed,. we should saya thata:single mill
working ithorttirsie, andavorking .at a profit, must be
decisive of the whole question; because in eadan ma
feria, what one can . do' all can do —.if 'exer-
cising equal skill,- and contented: with equal . gain.
Locking to the, physical. view of t the. 'affair, we are
convinced that the, aihrieasurement of :.the amount Of la-
bour by hours is altogether erroneous: 1 The -disco-
very has-'long since been made, that in money taxation
two = end two: do lot always make: four,.. tut :some,
tines 'make Ottly, one; “and. the observation- . applies
just as ,prOpirly to a taxation of the, ,energies of the
human traMe. •!!Svery.body has heard of ithe famous
Barclay matchi to walk a "thousand-miles in a .thou-
sand hours; and with-what.: toil :and difficulty it. was
accomplished in six weeks by -One of the most i robust
tnen-in England.; but-=had: Captain',Barelay, been per=
mitted, his•nrclinariAntelVala rest,- he wouldeeasily
have;steeornplishe.didouble 'the Malta-say. fifty Wiles a
day, in'the settle slaaveeeks. •SO it is, in a 'greater or
less' degree,' continued jahonr. -We are
ado:tittle's.' -whether; upian the' week', more 'work would
'nottale done,' and better 'done,- itrafiftyenine • than
aiXty-nine hours;-but, taking the *nth, 'we haro no
doubtaehateverathet More and -better Work .would be iii 236-thin in' 276'hotirs, suppOsing, alit 'time dia.
tributed equally-through thotwenty-four days. Is-there
-any one•vill Say- that' there• is hot the' difference-of 'more
Utah 20-per cent-- between. the: prodded,' of - 'healthy- and
cheetfal -labourer (be- he • lataaat;rer Man, • -woman; or
•Ori the one aidea = and a slate 'teeewrOstght,
displaittel iabeatrea en the, ether? The 'h'ottrarof ,labouta.
therefoaa," ere •not• 'the Measure of- the produce of the
tabeareesa toil; which may be diminishedns theschouts
are atigiuiied' itudaettainly aill-be diminishe'd if the
labour is pablonged• fer months, not to speak years.
To be Sure' there "is: tbe":gliocking hypothesis,, that
the labourers may •be -easily replaced 'tis they
are •=aatorte iontaa but 'this- it . an' hypothesis .Whicn
no one' dared Ls to aoffera, a. We hope that Lord
Ashley's clause: is safely -moored,: .;but' if the
subject of 'it ate "agitated aerate _ more, it' is ono
of those questions that cantioabe agitated ititheest good
effect---and if it is; asSir Robert Peel:surmised, :but the
commencement 'of a movement afor the =restriction- of ,
alaboar in allAtipartmente.of indastry, !emit ,rejeice
the more at it. Lord John Russellaittidasemeof the
Whigs, it wiltle-seen: supportadahord'Ashley. What-
ever their motive,. whether was honest, or, merely the
effeet of a teragtetion to anjoy.enee in -theii4%-k.s ;Ale
pleasure of Totittgjn. a Maiority against t4e ConservOive
Ministry, waettre nota-they are'now feitijactuight, and
cannot, go leek:, = •

MAIikET; ',INTELLIGENCE.
(From the Londofi Neia Price Curfew of March 19.)
SUGAR.--,The dullness in the West India market has further
increased, and there being a better and larger show of Samples,
prices continne- to give way, and Pule 6d to is Terewthuigrhideesrt
these of .Tueeday last, making the decline from the
point this year Is to Is 6d.
•
Today the West India sugar market preseAted heaiysp-
peaiance ;- the parchases 'made for grodfy and refientit par-.
poses were trifling ; prices going' 'down, and the
purchases. amounted to only 130 HA at .a reduction on Fri-
dai:ts rates of 6d per cwt.
RFIN tn.—Although further reduced rates have been taken
for Refined Goods, still the grocers operate with caution, and
the market it much better supplied. To-day, the trifling busi-
ness transacted in Refined Goods was at lower rates, brown
grocery lumps selling at 745, and standard lumps 75s ed to 761
per cwt. Bonded Crushed Sugar little inquired 'after, And.
25s 9d per cwt is the regular market price. ' :
•MA u ITI us. This afternoon the trade were little diSposed
to do buiiness,_ and the' public-sales wentuff heavily at a further.
'decline in prices of 6d to Is per cwt; Vow' brown •seld at 51s,
good 565, low yellow 58s to sFis 6d, mid 59s 6d to 61s, good
61s 6d to 62s 6d-, fine 65s to 665, veryfine,bright 675 to 6756 d,
good and middling grey 58s to 61s, some lots were taken in.
EAST INnu.---The market has been in a dull state for
Bengal Sugar, at rather lower terms ; good white went at 65e
to 665, low to mid 62s to 645, good yellow, 6,18 to 61, 6d, good
brown 54s to 565, mid 53s to 545; loW5Os 6d, damp and washed
50s to 56s • 50 casks daMP brown' soM at 50e per cwt for low
quality, white datlap and washed went at. 624 to 64s 6d per cwt.
Foreignßlet-India rs'winted, and the tendency of pricee up-
Wards: - To 414-a much better dentin& prevailed for Manilla
,Siigar;.partially on' speculation, and stiffer rates paid ; :Bengal
at rather lower rates; good whits at 655, damp and washed
62s to 665, good yellow 62s 6d to 635, middling-58s 6d, damp
and washed 57s 6d !061.9.1:Pet-C_Wi,-, • • •

Foam N.—To,day the market for Foreign Sugar .presented
a firmer appearance. Two floating cargoes of white Maroim
sold at 235,- deliverable at Trieste, and one for Gottenburg at
. •
23s per cwt; being fair prices. There is more desire to pur-
chin yellow nevannah, and holders less inclined to sell. For
small parcels of brown Biazil stiffer rates paid ; there was no
public sale. ' • • • •
I%loLa'sses..--Prices have declined leper cwt for,West India,
Demerara fine at 265; St. -Kitt's, fair, 24s 6d, fine 25e to 26s
per cwt: Bengal Syrup is 18s to 19s per cwt. • This after-
noon
Brie Demerara Molasses at 25r, being Is lower.
• Cocoa.—West India havbeen in excellent request. Trini.
dad line red 68s to 60s, good 565• to 575, low to middling 51s
to ssis, and grey 49s' to sle percw't. iFofetigti at: titis to 32.1-
per cwt. • .
Tea..—To-day, the business transacted in Tea was trifling,
and prices are drooping; Is OAd taken for con a:ion sound
Congoa cash, Is Oid for good common, and Is 2id to 14. 31 per