The Sun.
London, England, 1868-03-14 00:00:00

TUE POOR LAW BOARD.—Sir Michael Hicks
Beach has accepted the office of Parliamentary Secretary
to the Poor Law Bond.

The Duke of ARGYLL said that ho now rose to speak
upon that subject upon which he gave notice some days
ago. That subject was ono which was so cutting
and so injurious to the feelings of the people, that
it became necessary that it should be investigated into.
In terms which were severe, but not more severe than
they deserved to be, his noble friend (Eerl Russell) had
disclaimed any confidence in a Goverument which had
pursued the course adopted by the present Govern-
ment. The chief Minister of the Crown had adopted
a peculiar course in this matter. Ile had written
a letter to the Times about the matter. He must say that
the Tory party were a very good-natured party, and if the
right hon. gentleman had been on the Liberal side of
the house, and had uttered these remarks about
"being educated," a great number of justly indignant men
would have gone into the Cave of Adullatn. (hear,
hear.) It considered that if these five points in this letter
were to be taken as the theory of the Conservative
party, he thought that it was the duty of the
Liberals to protest against them. He should take the
Edinburgh ono as it had been made. He would, however,
do the right hon. gentleman the justice to admit that he
did say by the word "I" " I do not mean myself, but the
Government to which I belong." Ha should lightly in
his remarks pass over the 4th clause, but should speak
at some length on the sth. The first clause asserted that
the bill must be complete. With regard to tpis Clause it
was by persuading the minds of the members V/the house
that they, the Liberal party, intended to bring on one
point in one house and another point in the other house.
The peculiarity of their bill was that they did not wish
to abrogate the smaller boroughs, but letting them down
gently in order that they might be amalgamated with
others. The third point was that there should
be a real Boundary Commission, but this question had
never been mooted between the two parties, and if the
right hon. gentleman for seven years had been instilling
this into the minds of the people he must have had
an uncommonly easy task. The next point was
the distribution of seats in the country, but
this was not at all a serious point. These
were the four points which, it was argued, the Con-
servatives had been pressing upon the people. He
now come to the fifth point, which was formed by the
borough franchise upon the rates, and this was really the
serious point upon which the parties had boon at
issue. (Haar, hear.) The great question was not that
they should take the votes by the vote book,
or in any other way, for all the Liberal Government had
introduced a rateable franchise. Ia 1859 they might have
considered that the borough franchise should be reduced,
but Mr. Disraeli, when he left office, reverted to his former
opinion. Ho had asked Lord Darby's Government
—" Will you or will you not reduce the borough
franchise ?" The noble duke then quoted extracts
from Mr. Disraeli which stated that he had not altered his
opinion on the subject of Reform, and that he wits for a
lateral extension of the franchise. (Hear, hear.) On one
occasion he said that it was the impartial opinion of the
country that they rejected a gross and indiscriminating
reduction of the franchise. The noble duke said the last
time on which the right hon. gentleman had been educating
the people he said that this point was a mere blind by
which they first succeeded in duping their own party, and
then a large portion of the house. It was a remarkable
fact that the bill passed last year contained no per-
sonal payment of rates. It was a mere delusion,
and contained precisely the same clause as that
of the Reform Bill of 1832, and that clause
was perfectly inoperative. It was to test the solvency
of the debtors, but generally the course was that no
notice was taken of the non-payment of the rates, or else
it was takenn advantage of politically by the landlord, or
the electioneering agents, and they paid the rate. The
clause of last year was of the same description as that
of the Reform Bill. It was meant that the poorest
votes should have an independent vote by the personal
payment of rates, but in reality it was not so. The noble
duke then went into a statistical detail of the position of
the towns of Leicester and Exeter with regard to the pay-
ment of rates, and said that if they would look into the
records of Lord Grey's ministry, they would find that so
keen was political contest that the owners of property in
those towns had agreed to pay their tenants, and they were
immediately put upon the register, and this result would
accrue from this rating clause of the bill of 1867. In ad-
dition to that, in those municipal towns where the land-
lord had no political feeling it would bring the most cruel
and unjust effects upon the municipal authorities where
the tenants were allowed to pay the rates. In the east
of London it was proved in the appeals against the rates
that that landlords had not reduced the rent, and thus the
additional rate fell upon the poor. In the district of Hack-
ney 1,000 to 2,000 summons had been issued. Rather than
pay the rates every class of labourers and mechanics was
giving up housekeeping. In Salisbury each family had a
separate holding, but this rating system would compel
many to take lodgings.
The LORD CHANCELLOR lucidly explained the
nature and effect of the ratepaying clauses of the Reform
Act, and administered a sharp rebuke to the noble duke
for occupying the time of the house with criticisms upon
what, after all, was only a post-prandial oration. He pro-
ceeded with much vigour to animadvert upon the charges
which had been brought by Earl Russell on the occasion
referred to against the conduct of Lord Derby's Govern-
ment, denied that these charges had either point or accu-
racy, and indignantly repudiated the conclusion which
had been drawn by Lord Russell from his own unsup-
ported premises.
Earl RUSSELL said that the speech of the Lord Chan-
cellor was eminently ingenious, though it had altogether
omitted to answer the charges of the Duke of Argyle. lie ,
then proceeded to descant upon the advantages of com-
pounding for rate ; the hardship of imposing upon the
poorer classes of occupiers the'r personal payment; and
predicted that the new Parliament would speedily alter
the firm and solid ground which Ministers last year
boasted they had discovered to rest the borough franchise
upon. Lastly, the noble earl justified his charges against
the Government, declaring that their conduct with respect
to Reform had been unworthy of high-minded statesmen,
and repeated his comments on the speech of the Premier
at Edinburgh.

The Earl of MALMESBURY complained that under
the pretext of putting a question with respect to the com-
pounding for rates Earl Russell had seized the opportu-
nity to direct an attack, without notice, against persons
who could not be present to defend themselves. It was
unworthy of noble lords to make attacks which only a dis-
appointed Opposition would think of conducting. He
vindicated the conduct of Ministers, and argued that they
had only at last succeeded in settling the Refor►,m question
by treating it no longer as one of party politics, but by
consulting the house itself on the subject of its own re-
construction. The result was that the bill which had been
passed was more the work of the Commons than of her
Majesty's Government. If the measure inflicted hardship
upon a certain class of occupiers he was sure it would be
considered and redressed, and with that end in view the
matter was now being investigated by a committee of the
other house.

After some observations from Earl Grey, Earl Granville,
and the Earl of Devon, the subject dropped, and their
lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAsT EVENING,
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
EDUCATION IN SCOTLAND.

In reply to Mr. CRAWFORD,

The LORD ADVOCATE said it was the intention of the
Government to introduce a measure on this subject during
the present session.

PARTY PROCESSIONS IN IRELAND.

In reply to Colonel lirrox,

The Earl of MAYO said in October last 23 persons
pleaded guilty at Downpatrick of an infringement of the
Party Procession Act. The men were allowed to go at
large on their own recognisances, they promising not
to offend the law. The others refused to plead guilty ;
they were tried and convicted, when Mr. Johnson, of Bally-
kilbeg, who was one of them, asked that the other two
men might be liberated like the others, as they had
acted under his direction. Mr. Johnson's memorial went
to the Lord-Lieutenant, who referred it to the judge, but
that learned gentleman said as the memorial did not come
from the prisoners themselves, but from a prisoner who
aaked no favour for himself, it was returned to the person
sending it as informal. The informality being remedied, the
men were allowed to go at largo on their own recogni-
sances, but as Mr. Johnson had stated that he could ask
no favour for himself, he had therefore to undergo the
sentence passed upon him, which was a month's imprison-
ment for that offence, and another month for his refusal
to enter into his own recognisances to abstain from doiu g
as he had done for the future.
STATE OF IRELAND—THE ADJOURNED
DEBATE.

The adjourned debate on the motion of Mr. MAGITIRE
was resumed this evening by
Mr. C. FORTESCU.E, who said the mind of England
had now ripened on tho condition of Ireland, and it
being considered intolerable. The Fonian organisation
had been, up to the present, productive of but bad results;
it had led to the euspenain Qt the kiebeae c0r1314 AGt

The 0110NOGHUE described the condition of Ireland
as one of wide-spread and alarming dissatisfaction, to be
traced chiefly to the circumstance that Irishmen were not
allowed to manage their own affairs. They had lost con-
fidence in Parliament, and had either sunk into despair or
were patiently waiting until a gleam of hope should en-
able them to assert the shattered dignity of their country.
It was impossible to convert Ireland into an English
county, and equally impossible to restore contentment
until the tenant had security for his improvements, and
until the Established Church and every other badge of as-
cendancy was for ever extirpated.
Lord C. HAMILTON, in a characteristic speech, ex-
pressed his opinion that all the woes of Ireland were en-
tailed upon her by grievance-mongers and professional
agitators. _ _ _

Mr. H. A. HERBERT, as an Irish landlord, avowed
himself willing and anxious to give leases to his tenants
and declared that, as a Protestant himself, he was prepared
to vote to-morrow for the abolition of the Established
Church. He denied that Ireland was retrograding in ma-
terial prosperity.

Mr.NEWDEGATE, as might be expected, directed his
speech chiefly to the proposition for a Catholic University,
which ho denounced as a dangerous innovation, calcu-
lated to alienate yet more Catholic Ireland from Protes-
tant England, by encou-aging Ultramontarre pi:nciples
and clerical domination. With respect to the land scheme
of the Government he was prepared to give it a general
support.
Mr. BRIGHT regarded the condition of Ireland with
sorrow and anxiety, for ho could not bring himself to be-
lieve that there must not be something radically wrong in
the condition of a country which was always ripe for re-
volution. This great effect must have some cause, and
the House of Commons would be unworthy of its mission
if it did not endeavour to discover that cause and
supply a remedy. The land and the Church were at
the root of all the mischief. In reference to the
former, he would not do anything by law which could in-
fringe the rights of property, but he insisted that the
landlords of Ireland had grievously mistaken their own
interests. If the Government were to raise money at 3i
per cent. and purchase Irish estates, to be divided among
tenant-farmers, who would pay 5 per cent. for 31 years,
tenant right would be secured, and each tenant would at
the expiration of that time become the freeholder of the
land he had tilled. In this manner the "land difficulty'
might be adjusted. As far as the project for a Catholic
University was concerned, ho looked upon it as most un-
statesmanlike and impolitic. It was a tentative pro-
posal, which, if accepted by the Catholics, will doubt-
less be used hereafter as another buttress to the
Established Church in the shape of a bribe. The
proposal was grotesque and imbecile, and nobody
was disposed to have anything to do with it. It reminded
him of the pills sold by an itinerant doctor (not a Cabinet
Minister, but only a mountebank) which were "good
against the earthquake." In Ireland there was a social
and political earthquake, and the doctors on the Treasury
bench proscribed a Catholic charter, which Catholics
would not accept, and which Protestants would not sanc-
tion. Alluding to the State Church in Ireland, he looked
upon it as virtually doomed and at an end. Ile thought
the time was rapidly coming when all endowments must
he withdrawn, and religious equality be established upon
a purely voluntary principle. The Catholic, the Pro-
testant, and the Presbyterian Church could then have a
fair start, and there would be no more supremacy
or ascendancy. He implored the house to approach the
consideration of this subj,ct in a kind and conciliatory
spirit. If they would but surrender their prejudices and
subdue their antipathies, the dark and heavy cloud which
lowered over Ireland would soon be dispelled, and the
sun of prosperity would shine upon a free and happy
people. _ _

The debate was brought to a conclusion by Sir STAF-
FORD NORTHOOTE, who argued that the Church of
England and Ireland were one and the same, and that it
would be impossible to disendow the one without eventu-
ally confiscating the property of the other. He admitted the
State had a right to inquire into the manner in which the
Church had hailed its mission ; but he denied that the
endowments of the Church were the property , of the
nation, and he challenged the equity of preferring an in-
dictment before evidence had been collected and a case had
been made out, taunting the leaders of the Opposition with
not having applied themselves to redress the grievances
and anomalies of which they now complained. The right
hon. baronet observed that the late Government would
have dealt with it, but that upon consideration they found
they could not do so with safety. The policy to to adopted
towards Ireland should be one of • a healing and not of an
irritating character, and, above all, should be animated by
a strict sense of justice.
On the motion of Mr. MONSELL, the debate was ad-
journed shortly before midnight until Monday.
The other business on the paper was disposed of, and
the House adjourned until Monday.

ACCIDENT IN THE CHANNEL. FOLKESTONE,
March 11.—The Lord Warden, Captain Jenkins,
the South-Eastern Railway Company's steamboat on the
Folkestone and Boulogne station, left here at 12.30 to-day
with 75 passengers, and met with some accident in mid-
channel, rendering her helpless. The Napoleon 111.
Captain Paul, in the same service, which left Boulogne for
Folkestone at 2.15 p.m., with 45 passengers, took the
Lord Warden in tow back to Boulogne harbour. The
Napoleon 111. will not leave Boulogne until the night
tide, and is expected here soon after midnight. The
special tidal train will not leave for London until about
1 o'clock.
..._

THE ABOLITION OF COMPOUNDING.—A public
meeting of the inhabitants of Birmingham was held last
night, under the presidency of the Mayor, to petition
Parliament to repeal the ratepaying clauses of the Reform
Act. The petition adopted embodied all the objections to
the clauses in question, pointing out that by the abolition
of compounding "individual injury is combined with class
irritation, and an Act professedly for the enfranchisement
of the people has become an instrument of social hardship
and fiscal oppression." It is added that under the circum-
stances " the extension of the elective franchise to the
poorer occupiers is now made conditional on their submis-
sion to a ruinous penalty, mad instead of a boon to be wel-
comed becnaes a plague to be avoided." There were at
least 4,000 people:present.
During a quarter of a century Horniman's Teas have had
an immense sale, and as they are now 8d per pound Cheaper;
in consequence of the Reduced Daiy, the demand d
.1!
doubtless be even further extended. Sold, secure
IWO • genuine aro oigucl
dorniman and Co., L9uclon,