The Sun.
London, England, 1850-08-03 00:00:00

COUN'T'Y COURTS EXTENSION.

Lord Beaumont and other Pears were appointed to
manage the couterenee with the Commons on the
County Courts Extension Bill.
• IRISH COURT OF CHANCERY BILL.

Lord BROUGLIAM moved that this Bill do pass,
and he hopei that the Bill would not be stopped in the
House of Commons, as it was of the utmost importance
to the poor suitors that it should puss.
The Bill was then passed.
CIVIL LIST.

Lord BROUGHANI then rose t move for th© returns
relating to the retrenchments in the civil list, oF which
he had given notice. He begged to premise that he had
not the remotist idea of touching the bargain made at
the beginning of the reign between the Sovereign and
Parliai2sent, and ho had net the slightest view of making
indecorous economies in the civil list expenditure ; but
they they had a right to know what the amount of
actual savings was. He saw his Noble Friend (the
Marquis of Lansdowne) shake his head, but thera was
nothing in that.—(Laughter.) He did not mean -the
head—no doubt there was a great deal in that, h • meant
the shake.—(Renewed laughter.) They had the returns
of the gross saving, which for the last 3 ear was
38,7191. 4s. 2,1.; but he wanted the particulars. lie
wanted to know how much was in the Lord Steward's ,
office, how much in the Lord Chamberlain's office, how
much in the Master of the Horse's office, and how much
in salaries, pensions, and allowances, and whether it was
on consumable commodities or for officers ? What he
wanted to get at was, whether the vacancy caused by the
death of Sir Thomas Marrable, the late Secretary to
the Board of Green Cloth, had been filled
up, or a reduction effected. He found that
a slim of 2,0201. had been voted in 1837, on the set-
tlement of the civil list, for the expenses of the Board of
Green Cloth; now that sum had been voted for a specific
purpose, and they had a right to expect that it should
be applied to that purpose, and not appropriated to any
other. A saving of 38,0001. had bean effected, a great
portion of which might be attributed to the reduction of
prices consequent upon the repeal of the corn-laws. He
thought the estimates of expense were taken at too high
a standard. Ile had to observe that the charges for
services amounted to between 60 and 70 percent. on the
income, which was more than any private person would
siAbmit to. He wished to know whether any, and what
part of this saving had been on account of salaries, pen-
sions, and allowances. It was a mistake to suppose that
the Crown received the full amount, for it was charged
by her present Majesty's predecessors with not less than
28,0001. It was not the principle of the constitution
that the Sovereign of this country should amass private
property, but be dependent on Parliament, and upon this
principle whatever property devolved upon the Crown
became the property of the public. It was not his in-
tention to press his motion at present, but he gave no-
tice that, early next session, ho should call attentioa to
the subject.

The -Marquis of LANSDOWNE objected to the mo-
tion, and considered it would be highly objectionable to
state the items upon which savings had been effected,which
would entrench on the independence of the Sovereign, and
detract from its dignity, if items were sifted to ascertain
if there was a horse too many on one occasion of the
visit of a foreign prince, or a dinner too many on another.
The Act of Parliament provided that when a saving was
made in one department it might be transferred to ano-
ther. If the Crown came to ask for assistance, it would
be consistent to institute an inquiry into the expendi-
ture to ascertain the necessity for the demand, but that
was not the case here. Her Majesty bad never applied
for any assistance. He was sure the Noble Lord bad no
intention to review the contract entered into between the
Crown and Parliament. He could not consent to the
motion.

Lord BROUGHAM explained.
The Dake of WELLINGTON said his Noble Friend
omitted to state that it was the principle of the settle-
ment, that no inquiry should take place. He recollected
that Lord Althorp at the time declared in the House of
Commons that no inquiry should take place, and the Act
was framed in strict conformity with that declaration.
The Noble Lord was then a member of the Administra-
tion, and must have been a party to the arrangement, in
direct opposition to which his present motion Iva:,
directed. On the two occasions on which the civil list
was fixed he complained that it was not sufficient, ar.d
he found that in many instances it was inadequate. to
meet the demands upon the bounty of the Crown; and
in cases where in the war parties were bereaved of t heir
husbands the Crown was unable to make a competent
allowance.

Lord MONTEAGLE opposed the motion. The con-
tract had been framed upon the surrender by the Crown
of the hereditary revenues attached to it.—(Hear, hear.)
They had no right to ask any of these questions relating
to the civil list, or to receive an answer. That was the
first time when, without debt and *without embarrass-
ment, such questions were asked. That was the first
time, and he hoped it would be the last time. The civil,
lni srqst
utiwasgree t
aa
br
iodu bargaintoftttheire with
xipbtehanr
gdPiataiunr
expenditure
Parliament.
olffe
tnhi
be
civillf a t
list,
they wished
twahiiensyhe , t
otdhue
should stand to it, but if not, tt)
.t, they should repudiate it
altogether. They could not re-open the civil list during
the life of the Sovereign. The revenues of the DrY
y from
of Cornwall had now passed awa
the Crown, Lacinhd
the civil list was therefore smaller than it had
many years. There had been no application to ;anrroar
ment to defray debts of the Crown either during the
present or the late reign. Both Sovereigns wereactu-
ated by economical feeling,. The late King, upon going
into the new palace, expressed to him a fear that it
would lead to and involve the expense of a large estab-
lishment. He remembered the emphatic words in which
he expressed these apprehensions to him. He observed,
I never asked Parliament to pay any debt for me, and
so long as I live, so help me God, I never will. The
ever:wily of the present reign was 'finally remarkable.'
U::der Oust! circumstances, he hoped the motion
be rejietcd.
Load BROUGHAM, in reply, said that there had
been much inaccuracy in the statements of the Noble
Lord. Parliament was at intervals called upon to vote a