The Sun.
London, England, 1850-08-07 00:00:00

tration of Justice (in Court of Chancery) Acts Continu-
ance Bill was read a third time and passed.
Lord BROUGHAM then gave notice of his intention,
on Thursday next, to call the attention of the House to
the state of the criminal law.

PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL.
The Comm‘ins' amendments to this Bill were brought
up to be considered.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he would pro-
ceed to call their Lordships' attention to the amend-
ments msde by the other House on a Bill which had been
much discussed by their Lordships, and which had been
sent up for adoption by their Lordships. He would
shortly state the amendments madn by their Lordships,
to which the other House had agreed. The first was to
exclude any fraudulent occupier from voting under this
Bill, by requiring occupation for a given period. They also
had agreed to the omission of the clause enabling: joint oc-
cupiers to vote. Their Lordships thought that the qualifi-
cation should be 151. The House of Commons had sent
this Bill up with an amendment, substituting a 121. quali-
fication for that of 151. as proposed by their Lordships.
He wished a Bill to pass which should do away with all
cause of ferment in Ireland. It was by a representative
Government alone that any part of the kingdom could
remain happy and contented, and he therefore hoped
their Lordships would not so nullify the effect of the
franchise, by making it so high as to exclude any large
portion of the people. If they did so, they would find
unconstitutional modes of expressing their opinion, which
might be at-ended with great danger.—(Hear, hear.)
That was therefore an amendment to which he earnestly
entreated their Lordships to assent. There was another
amendment restoring the clause by which the clerks of
the peace were required to record the names of all per-
sons entitled to be upon the register, and also to record
all their votes. There was another amendment as to dates.
The remainining amendments were of no particular curl-
sequence, and enireating an approval of the amendments
to which he had particularly alluded, he left them for
their Lordships' consideration.
Lord STANLEY said he did not intend again to re-
open the whole question, which had been very fully dis-
cussed. He had heard with some surprise the amend-
ments of the other House enumerated by the Noble
Lord. They did hot appear to him to be of a very ma-
terial or important nature. He contended that the per-
soffs holding property should be bona fide occupants, else
they should not be entitled to a vote. He explained on
a former occasion to the Noble Marquis (the Marquis
of Lansdowne) that his motive for the rejection of
the clause relative to the joint occupier was because
he knew that there were several consequential
clauses dependent upon it which could not be entertained.
Now he should again raise the same objection against
the amendment of the House of Commons, which went
so far as to reduce the joint occupier's assessed rate
from 121. to 84 There were two other points which
had been already discussed by their Lordships and car-
ried by a majority. This the House of Commons wished
by their vote to rescind; the one was the assessed rate
of 151., the other was the self-acting registration clause.
He, therefore, hoped, that their Lordships would adhere
to their former decision, and not by any means reject
the rating of 151., particularly as they considered that it
should be the lowest rate of qualification that could be
beneficial to the people of Ireland, for it would properly
balance the power that existed between the proprietors
of land and the numerical strength of the lower classes.
He argued that the amount of 151. was what the consti-
tuency of that country required, as it would include per-
sons who lived in the neighbourhood of towns, though
not possessing more than four acres. He feared that in
the result of those amendments being carried by their
Lordships that neither intelligence elor propexty.would
be consulted, but the numerical ma sa of illiterate and
unenlightened, and that consequently property would
be overbalanced by numbers. He contended that
the present question was one of degree and not
of principle, and he felt it his duty, consequently, to offer
every opposition in his power to it. It was well known
that the constituency of Ireland had fallen very low,
owing. as their Lordships knew, to several causes, and
this falling off was more especially illustrated in the
county Mayo, where, at the last election, there were
not more than 230 voters who polled, though he was well
informed there were a great number of electors at that
time in the county, many of whom were prevented from
recording their votes through the instrumentality of the
priests. It was well known that neither the question of
foreign or domestic policy, nor that of any difference be-
tween England and Ireland, nor of free-trade policy, en-
gaged the attention of the people, but a stern opposition
to the landlords, and that actuated by the priesthood of
that country, which he pronounced to be most scandalous.
In a word, he felt assured that the Hon. Gentleman who
was returned obtained his seat, not by the property or
intelligence, but by the dictation of the Roman Catholic
Archbishop and his clergy. This be considered to be a
question which required the due deliberation of their
Lordships—this was a ease where one step taken in the
wrong direction would prove to be irretrievable. He
argued that the Noble Marquis was not correct
in his calculation, in which he compared the
number of voters in England, Scotland, and Wales,
with that of Ireland ; and should his project,
and that of the Government in the House of
Commons be carried cut, he feared that it would
throw greater influence and power into the hands of the
lower classes of the people of Ireland than that pos-
sessed by the people of any of the other three countries
to which he had already alluded. He was fully assured
that of the 25,000 tenantry in the county of Mayo, there
were over 40,000 who were not rated at more than 5/.
He hoped that if their Lordships had any judgment (and
that he felt assured they bad) they would adhere to their
former decision, and uphold the 151. rating. He should
next say that he was astonished that the Noble Marquis,
who had so strenuously opposed the 8/. rating on the
joint occupiers, should now have altered his opinion, and
acquiesced with the opinion of Government in the House
of Commons, in opposition to his own avowed opinion
in that House, for he felt assured that the 81. clause
would not be sufficient, and that nothing but the 12/.
clause would answer the object of the Bill. He would
next allude to the compulsory clause, fur it was most
unjust that persons who wished to attend to their re-
spective business should be coerced to register, and thus
be exposed to the anger and animosity either of their
landlords or their priests. Could anything be more
harassing or objectionable than that the lower classes
should be coerced to put their names on the registry,
which must necessarily interfere with the influence, in-
telligence, and the respectability of the country; yet, at
the same time, he should admit that there was a dif-
ference of opinion on this question in Ireland, and he
should say, that on this compulsory question, as well as
the other, that their Lordships should strictly adhere to
their former opinion. In a word, he thought that it
would be better to uphold the old system rather than
adept so pernicious a measure as that suggested by the
House of Commons. —(Hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE was of a totally
different opinion with the Noble Lord (Stanley) as to
the effect of the working of this measure in Ireland.
He believed it was the only way in which they would
obtain a representative system commensurate with the
population and property of Ireland. The question was
really, not whether there should be a franchise founded
upon a 12/. or a 15/. qualification, but whether they
should have such a constituency as would fairly repre-
sent the people of Ireland. He contended that the
amendment of the Noble Lord would be the ruin of
the landed property of Ireland. As the 104 franchise
was the ruin of what was called the squirearchy, so the
raising the qualification to 15/. now would throw the re-
presentatiUn into the hands of the small traders and
shopkeepers. The Noble Lord had referred to the
Mayo election in terms that the circumstances of that
election did not warrant; but he begged to remind the
Noble Lord that so far from there being no principle in-
volved, the candidate who was returned fur the Mayo
constituency was cue who declared himself in favour of
free trade, while his opponent was an advocate of what
was called the protective system. He did not deny
that efforts were made to prevent some of the electors of
Mayo from recording their votes, but that was an argu-
ment in favour of the enlargement of the constituency.
in which case such an event could not arise. He hoped
their Lordships would not adopt an amendment which
would have the effect of improperly narrowing the
constituency of Ireland. He was satisfied that a better
proposition, or one more in accordance with free insti-
tutions, had ,never been submitted to that House. Ho
was surprised that the intelligence and judg-
ment of the Noble Lord did not - satisfy him that the
measure before the House was the best that could be
devised for conferring a suitable constituency upon Ire-
laud, and would give his vote in favour of the restora-
tion of the 12/. qualification.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the 121. franchise,

Present

... 56
• • • •••
... 70-126
•.•

Proxies ...
For the 151. franchise,

Present
Proxies

62
52-114

Majority •for the 121. franchise 12
The Earl of DESART then rose and moved the rejec-
tion of the Commons' amendment making the registra-
tion self-acting. He could not, consistently v.ith his
sense of duty, concur in the amendment, for he regarded
it as little short of persecution to the voter. He should
be sorry to see their Lordships' reverse a decision at
which they had arrived by a large majority, without any
change of circumstances iu tho interval, and could not
help thinking that the result of such a course would be
to inflict a heavy blow and great discouragement to those
hopes with which Ireland was beginning to regard their
Lordships' House. He regretted to see the Government
so prone to yield to agitation' or rather to apprehended
agitation, for the result of such a course had always been
to encourage the evil which it sought to repress.
Lord STANLEY advised his Noble Friend not to
divide the House, although he remained quite uncon-
vinced by the arguments which had been urged against
their Lordships' previous decision, and believed that by
reversing that decision they would bo introducing
a dangerous principle, which was capable of being
extended with equally mischievous effect to England.
But when he recollected that among those Noble
Lords who were present the same opinion prevailed as
when their last vote was given on this point; when be
recollected that the majority of their Lordships who
were in favour of insisting on their own amendments he I
been more than counterbalanced by the large majority
of proxies—(Hear, hoar)—when be remembered, also,
that that majority, however powerful might be the argu-
ments used, was incapable of being affected by any dis-
cussion, for the " litera seripta mance ho felt that it
would be a mere waste of their Lordships' time to trouble
them again. If it depended, indeed, on those who were
present and were willing to hear arguments, he would
have no fear for the result, and would request his Noble
Friend to persist in his motion. But as ho presumed
the Government would take the very convenient course
of sheltering themselves from an adverse_ majority by
calling forth their proxies, hen would suggest to his Noble
he u
Friend that he would necessarily taking up their
Lordships' time by calling on them to divide. On a
fgaier gccuicm he had commented
up Q 4 it majority 6i..