The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-23 00:00:00

both 'Sides. He, however, did not fail to cast an
iniputatiOn upon a gentleman, against whose character
he (Mr. M. O'Connell) never before had heard anything
,attitett, 'he meant Mr. M'Grath, who had the fortune,
I or tre-allisfortune as the case might be, to he a Catholic.
The Attorney-General insinuated that this gentle
man had been corruptly influenced by Mr. Ma-
hOney;',aticl 'that :he: had shown . more favour to
the Araierseri -than' to the • officers of the 'Crown.
-ow, he believed, the practice was that the list should
rematniii-the ogee three weelis,dUringiiliielinll patties
should be entitled to a personal inspection. The attorney
for the traversers applied at the Oloae of the revision for
-.permission to compare his list with the list of
the Recorder, in order to see whether his
,hOas --.,were correct. • There was no great con-
_cession .in granting
...such a request.. He was in-
'form'ed'" that the same permission would be given to the
attorney fur- the traversers hiid 'he applied for it. Per-
mission _ had been given to ' inspect four of the
.parochial` 'Bata, and when the fifth was applied
-for; -it was stated' that it was ' gone to - the
Recorder:- Up 'to that moment he believed no
corruption„, could lie charged: either against Mr.
M.‘Grath or the,attorney for the treversers. The Right
Hon. Gentleman (the Attorney-General) said that on'
_the,partof the Crown frequent application was Made
forthe book. This was never stated however on
,the trial,
though it ought ,to have been, if it were' intended to
-have made any statements. at all. 'lt ought then-to have
been stated that the traversers had enjoyed an advantage
• which was _denied to the Crown: -As it was, they, had
:only the,. hare statement •of the Attorney- General.
`From the 3tt of January the Sheriff had twelve clear
deys in Which to niake out his list. Now, if the Attorney-
. General was so anxious to obtain' a copy of the
jury: lis', he - had it in his power to - -do
so., Immediately ' on. the return of the Recorder
'an _ application was' made to .him' on the part of the
traversers for copies of tbe jury list. The Recorder said
•it wits net in his power to grant it, but'•recommended
an Application tattle Sheriff. This'application was made,
but the Sheriff refused to -grant it without:-the consent'
.of the Crowns but that consent was withheld. ,The only
tiuie thelist could be'of advantage, 'it was refu'sed.
When an application was.made to the Reeorder to have.
the names that were omitted placed upon the list:,
he replied that the-: power for' that purpose
was_only_ pess.essekt_bY._ Ow Crown: ' The letter
announcing: the Circumstances w:-s written ITS,:7IIi:-
M•Grath, the clerk of the Crown, both the Hum-,
ney- for the traversers, and the attorney for the 'Crown.
The Hon. and Learned Attorney-General for Ireland
had in vain att,,anpted to fiaten a charge,
.or rather to
throw out an imputation, of corruption against Mr,
*Grath. , No imputation whatever ' had ever be-.,
-fore, been heard of against this gentleman ; and he'
(Mr. M. O'Connell) did nut think it would have been
so in that House but fora the ' opportunity which
was offered tO;thkilitorney,General of throwing some
,thinguntagainst a Roman Catholic. He (Mr. M. O'Con-
nell) ' waS - liot going 'into the 'proceedings at the
trialhe' should not Condescend to ' say anything.
of the. conduct either of the Couusel or the Judges.
Those...matters had been a good deal discussed
aiready,,and they would be a good deal more discussed
yet, and a .light. probably throWn titian thein, 'which
heretofore had not been done. The Attorney-General
had et last obtained what he had se. anxiously toiled
fer.--his verdict, but a verdict of ' a very question-
able character.=(Hear, hear.) - But the Learned
Attorney-,General-himself admitted that the right-of -ap—
peal existed ; and most assuredly the exercise. of, that
right would -be ClaiMed.—(Hear, hear.) ' But of what
Table: was , the verdict to theM now they had got ,it?
Amongst the six millions of people who had been charged
.with being present at theae ornater meetings, was there
one: individual who had been'deterred—was there one
individual who would be deterred--4rom seeking the re.;.
peal of the union by these legal proceedings?--(Hear.)
-The NationalA.ssociation was.still in eitistence-Hthe Re-
peal rent .still flawed in. Thc'ainount collected for the
last•week was 5001.; .for the week before that 600/.; for
- each week in the fortnight previoui to that 5001.; and
for
_the week before this, period it was over 9001. He
had - PrOnicied ' the , louse. , not' ,to detain' it;
and he would - keep his promise. -His- only -
'object . had been' . to, ex-pose some of ' 'the
fallacies in the ingenious,' htit. not very candid, speech of
the: Hon. and Learned AttorneyrOeneral. He had only
one word to add before
.he sat down. Let. the cense-
' qneneesibe what they. Might to the, traverser; they
could . mot_ off_ - ect the cause or progress of
Repeal. They had not . succeeded' by ' progress
' or
trial, and they would nott-succeed by force in hushing
`,the demand for a repeal of the unioh—they had not de-
layed-its-advent-for one moment, and they would not do
so, let them seek by whateier means they liked to do so.
• !Mr. Sergeant MURPHY rose to explain. He said
he understood tbat, during hii absence, the Right Ron.
the Attorney-General for Ireland had nude allusion to
certain observations which ' had fallen from him (Mr.
Sergeantlfurphy). lie could only say that no one could'
rejoice more sincerely than -he did, that in what he had
stated he had been mistaken.—(Hear.) He had taken
his information from the public papers, and Upon that.
,anthority he had fearlessly spoken. Ile could only add
that he thought the Right Hon. the Attorney-General
Aulglit congrattilaWhimself, upon the mistake that"
haoccurred, for it enabled him.to Prove himself a most
-able' and accomplished debater in that-Houie. ' -----
- Air. GREGORY said the Hon. Member for Edin-
/la'gh had use of 'the expreSsion that Ireland 'was
;always combuStible, although not always, on fire.
1;
ie could haie" wished that the. Ron. Gentleman had re-
. liTeted upon that sentiment, for he (Mr. Gregson) had-
-never heard af speech in that House which-vras more
cOeulated. to , effect .that corninistion of ehiCh the Hnn.
ember had spoken, than the speech of the'llon. Gentle-
n himselE--(Cheers.) That speech was a mere re-
-4
, t scitation of all the- bitter wrongs tinder which Ireland
-hid ever stiffered. These wrongs had now_passed away,_
. andAierefore no good could result from 'any attempt to
11-back- the-reeollectionof them.--(Cheers.) . The:H. n.
. gentleman who had.just sat downhad commented upon.
ae conduct of the Irish AttetnepGeneral in alluding to
,rz,....h: . He' (Mr. Gregory) did not believe that
-his Hon. end Learned Friend meant to attach any-stigma
-t4 the name of Mr. 14I'Grath: his II on. and Learned •
Friend..(Mr. Shaw) had also repudiated any such inten-
tion. What those Hon. and Learned Gentlemen had
said Was; that a strong impression existed in Dublin that
blarne,was.net to be attached to the law officers of the
• Orown, but to those persons who had Obtained access to
the ogee or alt. ISl‘Grath.• Allusion-had been made in
the course of this 'debate ti,) the state of, the elective
Oanchisein Ireland. ,lt had been stated that the-re-
-restriction of, the franchise in Ireland was owing to an
unWillingness on: the '' part or the landlords to- grant`
lettsi-s.- This was not the case. The reason' was an un-
:Willingness on the part:of the Irish, petisanta to-register -
themselves, on account of the power that might be
brought against them in the etxerciae ,of . that franchise,
by the Irish priesthood. They Noble Lord, the Mein, -
her for London, in alluding ,to the .state of the Irish,
franchise, had stated, on the authority of Mr. O'Connell,
that 'the registered electors of Yorkshire were-equal in '
number to the registered eleetors . of all the counties in
Ireland. Now he •had not supposed that in the eyes of
the•Noble,Lord population was the only basis, of repre-.
sentation. If it were the only basis,, why did they, not
propose to alter the constituencies of England.—(Hear,
Beer.) Why should .Tamworth • with its 300 electors
'hake the. same weight and' influence in 'that House as
Birmingham, with its = 5,000,. or Manchester with its
• 6,ooo.—(Hear, hear.) Why did he not- adopt the
Chartist propositiOn, and divide England at once into
20,000 districts.?l--(Hear,.hear.). He svould remind the
Heuse of the words of the Noble Lord the Member for
sunderland, who said that theyinerensedthe-frarichise-
in Ireland they would• only be putting. weapons in the
hands elbow who.were the friendsof reland. In his
(Mr. ,Gregory's) opinion by increasing the constituences
411 i-eland 'they would be putting weapons not into the'
hands-of those who were the friends'of Ireland, but of
those-who had-established and- were.continning agitation
its that 'country.—(Hear,, hear.)
~ With respect .to the
Established Church; , another monster grievence—
(Hear, hear, from • the Opposition) —he was
happy • to • - say that. had received two - assurances
in that House which convineed.him that that Establish-
Ment was not destined to .be overthrown. Ilertferred
to- the ' assurances •Of .the •Noble. Lord. the Secretary for
the Colonies, and of .the Itig,ht,Hon. Baronet, declaring
that it :was their- intention to abide by that institution.
•--(Cheers.) He believed that were this question left to
the : exclusive legislation of • Hon. Members opposite
they Would find considerable difficulty in settling it: He
rould not but refer to the: statement, that the Catholic
eligion had- been stigmatised as false and idolatrous.
e begged to say, in reference to that subject; that
having. been entrusted.with a petition,, containitig. inn-
page of that description, and having forwarded it to the
tight 'Hem' Baronet, the Secretary 'of State' for the
Horne -Department, for presentation, he received. a few
lays afterwaids, a letter from the Right Hatt. Baronet,
toting that he did not consider it his duty to pre-
'ent her Majesty : with an address which breathed-
sentiments so disrespectful to a large portion of her
'subjects.—(llear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.)
It had been stated that the present Government in Ire-
land was as -government by the sword: If it • were so,
'let the' blanie rest with those to whom-this state of things
I.was attribUted. '1 he idea of repeal was not a mere ab-
'street love -of having a Parliament on College-green.
It was no vague speculation of a band .of enthusiasts.;
' . but it was ' the focus in-which centered all the wrongs
, and grievances of Ireland.- It was the murmur of the
ICatholic prit Os against•2the Established Church, whieh-
, they were determined to overthrow. It was. the corn-
!plaint of the poor man, who was driven to that extrernitr
I that any change was hailed as an advantage to him.
They might rest assured that •the agitation would con-
tinue,-and the House might depend on it that the priests
and agitators of that country. Would continue to demand
!from theM what they could not conscientiouslygrant,
,' and what wouldbe indignantly refused by the Protest-
ants and Dissenters of .England. .
.Mr.-1114.:LLEW-:-Said he considered Tibia in the -late-
State trials.- the Roman Catholics of Ireland had been
most unfairly treated,' and also that the traversers had
been unfairly dealt with. He considered that the Irish
'franchise was most unsatisfactory. It should befounded,
he thought, upon some test of rating or valuation, which'
would' place it 'quite, out of the- power of either of 'the
'two great parties into which the country was divided..
.Ile certainly cotild not speak very flatteringly of the
course ptirsued. by the Noble' Lord- who had brotight in
the Irish Registration Billor say. .that .it was likely to
increase the 'respect in which the-character of a stater-
man should be held,. There was one thing be felt bound.
to acknowledge, that-he considered the edministrationf
justice at present, was • superior to that of the p_errid.
during which -the Right Hon, Baronet opposite._(si .14
Peel) was-in power in 1831. The appointment abe
stipen-
diary magistrates had conferred incalculable
wernoeafita
Upon-Ireland, , and he carednot whether tht.ey,,
or p
pointed,b.v a Whia...or,4
,Tory•Adininistre itof theymatter
were'ri? better -titan'lhe'tilip-aidlitagistrates, 1
what might be their politics, inasmuch as they were
obliged to render an account of their conduct to a supe-
rior tribunal, lie ccrtaizily, AS a Catholic gentimani