The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-19 00:00:00

clause 53 the following clause should be inserted:—
" And whereas by the said Act, passed in the 55th year
of the reign of King George the Third, it is enacted that
if any person or persons shall desert, or run away from
any workhouse or workhouses, and carry away with him,
her, or them, any clothes, linen, or other goods, as afore-
, said, such person or persons being thereof lawfully con-
victed, either by the confesSion of such party or parties,
or by the oath or oaths of one or more credible witness
or witnesses,-before any justice or justices of the peace,
be forthwith committed to the common gaol or house of
correction, there to remain without bail or mainprise for
the space of three calendar months ; and it is further
enacted, that in case any person or persons maintained
in any public workhouse or, workhouses established for
the relief, maintenance, and employment of the poor shall
refuse to work at any occupation or employment suited to
his, her, or their age, strength and capacity,
or shall be guilty of drunkenness or other
misbehaviour, every such person or persons, being thereof
lawfully convicted before any justice or justices of the
• peace, shall thereupon, by such justice or justices of the
peace, be committed to the common gaol or house of
correction, there to remain without bail or mainprize for
any period of time not exceeding twenty-one days. and
during such time to be kept to bald labour. And whereas
it is desirable that justices'of the peace should have a
power to Commit Such persons as are first mentioned for
a period of less than three months, and such persons as
are last mentioned for a period greater than twenty. one
days, in cases of repeated offences ; be it therefore
enacted, that it shall be lawful for any justice or justices
to commit any such pers-ms as are first mentioned to the
common gaol or house of correction, to be kept there in
the manner provided by the said recited Act for any
period mit less than seven "days, nor greater than three
months, and to commit any su.lh persons as are last men-
tioned, in case such persons have been before convicted
of a like offence, to the common gaol or house of correc-
tion, in manner provided by the said Act, for any period
not exceeding forty-two days."
Captain PECHELL thought this was an excellent
alteration. ,
The clause was then agreed to.
Sir J. GRAHAM proposed to insert the following
clause after clause i 3 :—" And whereas it is provided
by the said first-recited Act, that all rules, orders, and
regulations made by the said Commissioners, under the
authority of the said Act, shall be as valid and binding,
and shall be obeyed and observed as if the same were
specifically made by and embodied in the same Act,'
but no sufficient provision is made for bringing such
orders to the knowledge of courts of justice : be it there-
fore enacted, that any copy of any such. rule, order, or
regulation, printed by the printer duly authorised by her
Majesty or any of her royal predecessors or successors,
shall, after the lapse of fourteen days from the date
thereof, be received in evidence, and judicially taken
notice of, and shall, until the contrary be shown, be
deemed sufficient proof that such order was duly made
and is in force." The clause had been suggested by the
Solicitor-General to remedy a defect in the law.
The clause was agreed to.
Mr. SCOTT then proposed the following clause :
" Provided always, and be it further enacted, that
wherever overseers shall haVe, for the first time, been
separately appointed for any township or village, since
the 14th day of August, A: D. 1834, all persons who,
in case such'township or village had been a township or
village maintaining its own poor from time immemorial,
would have been legally settled in such township or vil-
lage, shall be considered to have their place of settle-
ment in such township or village notwithstanding, at the
occurrence of the circumstances conferring any such
right of settlement, such township or village was united
with a larger diatriet for the maintenance of the poor ;
and every such person shall or may be removed to such
township or village, as to his or her place of last legal set-
tlement.' The clause was intended to remedy this evil.
Many townships had separated themselves from other
townships with which they were joined in the rate to the
relief of the poor. The consequence was, that those
paupers belonging to the separated townships. who were
not resident in the parish at the time of the separation,
could not be removed to them, and the maintenance of
such paupers was thrown upon the other parishes. The
present clause would prevent such occurrences for the
future, and the object of the proposed clause was to
remedy the evils which had occurred.
Sir J. GRAHAM admitted the existence of the evil,
but the present measure would' prevent its recurrence.
The evil, however, had as yet gone to a very small ex-
tent, and he thought that the litigation to which the
clause would_give rise w ould be a greater evil than the
one it was intended to remedy. The poor could not be
injured, as they:would haVe to be maintained as casual
paupers in the unions in which they, were domiciled.
• Mr. SCOTT knew of an instance in which forty pau-
pers were maintained by a township in which they had
no settlement, in consequence of their own township se-
parating in the: manner in which he had stated. He
thought no difficulty could arise in carrying the clause
into effect. • •
Sir J. GRAHAM wished the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman to explain what the precise meaning of the
words'" legally settled" was? -
Mr. SCOTT said, settlement in a township from time
..Sir J. GRAHAM said he would consider the matter,
and trusted they would arrange it in a satisfactory
manner on a future occasion.
The clause was then withdrawn, by consent.
Mr. R. YORKE moved the insertion of the following
clause:—" That the Commissioners be not empowered
to enforce indiscriminate separation between man and
wife, and that in no instance shall they sanction or allow
separation when the application for relief shall be sub-
stantiated as arising from
_positive inability to obtain
work, or from physical infirmity, and not from idleness,
vice, or crime." Surely persons in a free and civi-
lised Country should not be treated worse than
the slave, in .a country where liberty was not so
jealously guarded, and yet it appeared from the regula-
tions regarding slaves (which the Hon. Member alluded
to at some length), that slaves were allowed to live with
their wives, and even with their concubines.—(A laugh.)
In a country which so much professed to observe the
tendency of the Bible, it was altogether anomalous that
the husband and wife should be separated by the law
under circumstances.
Sir J. GRAHAM observed, in a jocose manner, upon
the phraseology of the clause. He did not understand
the meaning of the, words " indiscriminate separation."
The Hon. Member should be aware that at present the
board of guardians had a discretion to permit man and
wife to sleep in the same apartment. lie would not ad-
vocate the transfer of this power from the local boards of
guardians to ,Somerset-house, for the Poor-law Com •
missioners could know nothing, about the particular facts
of each. case, by which alone a • just decision could be
arrived at. He did.not think the Hon. Member was cor-
rect in making either the Commissioners or the boards
of guardians jadges of the vice or virtue of paupers. He
must.oppose the clause.
Mr. R. YORKE said he would give up the phraseo-
logy of the clause to the Right Hon. Gentleman, if he
conceded to him the principle for which he contended.
Mr. A. DARBY opposed the clause.
Mr. S. WORULEY would also oppose it, though he
was certainly adverse to any restriction being imposed
upon man and wife in the workhouse.
Dr. BOWRING thought the clause would produce
greater evils than it was intended to remedy.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—

For the clause - 6
Against it. " 96
Majority against the clause —9o
Mr. BURROUGHS moved that the following clause
be added to the Bill; by way of rider :—" That, in the
case of any person being a widow, who shall have a legi-
timate child or children dependent upon her for support,
and no- illegitimate Child born after the commencement
of her widowhood, it shall be lawful' for the guardians of
the union or parish to which such widow or widows may
have begome chargeable, to grant relief, if they shall see
fit, to such widow or widows, although not residing with-
in the union or, parish in which she or they may have a
legal settlement:'
Sir J. GRAHAM gave great credit to the Hon.
Gentleman for the good feeling which dictated his pro-
position, and assured him that were he himself to be
governed by his own wishes he should not for one mo
ment oppose it. But a good principle of the law was
at stake and his sense of duty compelled him to maintain
that principle. Relief of this sort to non-residents was
a wholly new principle—one never heretofore recognised
—and which the House should pause about before con-
senting to engraft it on the present Bill. In some cases
relief to non-residents was allowed, as in the first six
months of widowhood.. A departure from the principle
would entail boundless expense on the rate-payers.
Mr. SPOONER regretted that the Right Hon.
Baronet would not consent to the amendment, as the law
at present inflicted' in many cases' very grievous hard-
ship. The expense to the parishes was very much in-
creased by it. •
Mr. HAWES said the law at present gave sufficient
latitude to meet such cases.
After a few words from. Mr. BROCKLEHURST,
Mr. T. EGERTON said that these cases were found
principally in the rnanufacturine' districts, and it fre-
quently happened that a small allowance from the agri-
cultural union would enable the widow and children to
support themselves.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that this was neither more nor
less than applying this small amount in aid of wages in
the manufacturing diitricts.
Mr. T. EGERTON explained that the children were
enabled to support themselves ; the, widow alone re-
quired the assistance.
Sir J. GRAHAM :still thought it amounted to the
same thing.
Mr. BANKES thought the recommendation might be
adopted without danger.
Colonel ROLLESTON supported the clause. He was
of opinion that a diseretionary power should exist.
Mr. BROTHERTON thought the guardians might
have a discretionary power of giving relief to the widows.
After a short conversation, the Committee divided,
when there appeared-
- For the clause'49
Against it
Majority against Government —1
The announcement of .the numbers was received with
loud cheers.
The clause was then brought up, and ordered to be
made part of the Bill.
Mr. HAWES moved the following clause :—" And be I.
it enacted, that in every
case in which a parish:contains
more than twenty thousand persons, according to the
enunieration of the population then last published by
authority of Parliament, the cost, charges, and expenses
properly incurred by the officers of such parish in
making out, preparing,
printing, and collecting the lists
of persons qualified to serve on juries, according to the
provisions of the Act 6 Geo. 4, c. 50, and relating
thereto, shall be paid and allowed to them out of the
poor-rates of the said parish, together also with all
expenses properly incurred by the same officers, on the
perambulation of such parish, and in setting up and
keeping in proper repair the' boundary stones of the