The Sun.
London, England, 1868-02-20 00:00:00

LONDON, THURSDAY, FEB. 20, 1868.

Mr. GLADSTONE'S interview with the Trades'
Union deputation naturally excites attention at the
present juncture, and, considering that the right
bon. gentleman was placed in a very awkward posi-
tion, be may be said to have got out of it in a satis-
factory manner. The points to be discussed were
limited to four. The limitation to apprentices, the
minimum rate of wages, piece-work and overtime,
and the restraint of trade by trades' unions. Mr.
GEORGE POTTER made a long speech, in which he
set forth his peculiar views at some length, and
delivered his opinions in the somewhat arrogant tone
that distinguishes his remarks on most occasions.
He said that there were several people who both in
speaking and writing constantly attacked Trades'
Unions, and repeated the " stereotyped fallacies"
against them, but that they did not think it neces-
sary to pay any attention to them or to notice
what they may say ; hut it was otherwise when
one of Mr. GLADSTONE'S reputation uttered re-
marks on the subject. The reason for taking this
step was, he said, that there might be no misun-
derstanding between him and the hundreds of thou-
sands of intelligent citizens who comprise the mem-
bers of these organisations. Mr. PorrEn ad-
mitted that the remarks of Mr. GLADSTONE were
" widely circulated by the press, readily believed
by the public, and eagerly endorsed by their oppo
nents ;" but he seemed to overlook the fact that the
reason of this was their truth, and that, however
important Mr. GLADSTONE'S observations may be
that they would not have had half the influence
they possessed had it not been for the impression
conveyed to all that he gave expression to what
had of late become the general sentiment of the
public respecting Trades Unions. In point of fact
it does not appear very plainly how anything that
can be said by these advocates in the abstract
can alter the opinions that have been
formed, in consequence of the. practical
illustration of their views and purposes.
It is really almost incredible that any one should
say, as Mr. POTTER did, that Trades Unions are
not a , restraint of trade, but are only a restraint
of the overweening tendencies that spring from the
conscious possession of large resources in capital and
machinery—as if the overweening tendencies of
these unions themselves had not already been pretty
plainly demonstrated in a manner that could not
be mistaken, and as if they had not in many in-
stances violated the principles upon which they
professed to have started. It is all very well for
Mr. PorrEß to argue that, if they are not perfect,
what human organisation is; but it must be borne in
mind that when any irregularity took place, or
any great outrage was committed, that instead of
disowning such practices in tote, and denouncing
their perpetrators, the rest of the body seemed
always too much inclined to let things alone, and
if they did not palliate the offence, at least they
did not treat it as they ought.

Mr. GLADSTONE declared that he could not give
a positive assurance as to what he should do in Par-
liament on the subject, but he explained some of
his views very clearly. In the first place, in treat-
ing of the word " right," he showed that it had
two significations. A man has a right to things
which are proper to be done, and at the same time
he bas a right to do many things which are not
proper to be done. It is, he considers, a very " ex-
treme" right for men who are Unionists to refuse to
work with those who are non-union men. Mr. GLAD-
STONE touched chiefly upon the part as to whether
the restrictions referred to were advantageous to
the labourers themselves, leaving the question of
the manner in which society was affected by them.
He arrived at the wise conclusion that regula-
tions in restraint of labour "go to diminish
the aggregate amount of the fund which
constitutes the whole wages of the country."
Mr. GLADSTONE also put another of the fallacies
very plainly before these representatives, when he
said that he could not look upon the women as alien
oral separate prom the men, for they are their wives
and daughters, and the earnings of the labouring
class are increased by their wan-es. As for the rules
concerning the men themselves,' the right hon. gen-
tlemanthewould
be pointedef etcot therel'a nc
ai
fs h
ai r e,
rule a n
wd e
raskedlaid
dwohwant
to limit the number of apprentices in the cotton
manufacture. "it is there," said he, "in the great
staple trade of the country, that the labour of
tie young is the not free ; and it is there
that upon the whole the labouring men of this
country enjoy the most independent and solid
posi-
tion, as was proved by the manner in which they

were enabled to meet the terrible calamity of the
cotton famite." The right hon. gentleman very
properly designated as a war against labour the
several regulations that were made in various parts,