The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-13 00:00:00

%eels the proportion which those salaries bore to tie seen that on the termination of the war the natural price
bar menu of gentlemen erectising among us at the of food would be the price mainteined in this country—
oth,"'r (hear, hear.) Something lied been said the coupling together those. facts, I e could not b.- hew', not-
Itsig., inAt about the salaries I aid to the Ammiean withet inding the sitsmcions of the Right Lion. Gentle-
lien e But let the Howse r-collect what was the pest- man, that his lion, Fi iced. did not really mean, by
.equi-
,tiist t - Juoges. The judge In
tf 9l'B' • ' - . the United Siates vocal phrases, toi,,gain an,f,civantine for any particular
tow ho an rxiseedirnt,ly setsll saki V, anst at the are of opeohn up in. thh corona„thial q :e-tioe. lie t,e,ohr...tn.„.e
toe te was ditrnissee witrieut :lay pr.,, idiot;, no eis -es ie-she e' of nit non 1 steno. awl he towel test :1.1, ,k,,,-
Tits ;Igorous his intellect might Mill centiuue to be. elution in favour I f economy n its ore that naturally
lesettd'espt of that system was, that a judge who had followed from his per raises. But he (Sir B. Peel))
Pell , 'n a supreme court /al frequently' been c an- would with for no better premise: than those laid down
tillgiss,? Practise as counsel before a successor less dist by his Hen, Friend in support of the principles adopted
eteteettt% perhaps, on the beech thin he himself had ;in the year 1842 and in subsequent years. His Hon.
tititit htdean) That, surely, was not a pos'tion to i Friend hal recited that " whereas the present taxation
ill this ts lion. Friend would-wish to reduce the judges 'of the country depresses all classes, and especially the
(lllfisessene'l untrY• With regard to the salaries of public • labouring classes." Well, he (Sir R. Peel) said that the
Not ii, 4 had only toob7ierve that that was a question i legitiintte inference from that was that the House hed
4 go"? Could not in any way discuss, and upon which ' acted most wisely in the year 1842 and in subsequent.
tight Ill!' leave it to the House to decide as they years by removing restrictions on the supply of tooth,
ante think proper. But he would warn them not to and diminishing the taxes which pressed most heavily
Zit i t!lehtly to disturb the arrangements on which on the labouring classes.—(llear, hear.) 11.Tas not
lisicial system was founded. Her Majesty's that a fair and legitimate inference ? His lion.
t,',' egets',, he should observe, were not unmindful Friend proceeded to propose, that in the pre-
they t "eeessity of effecting every reduction which sent state of the taxation of the country, "it is the
lase 'clitTld think reasonable in the rational expendi- opinion of this House that adequate means should be
4411 est-tis non. !Friend lead carried list year, by a tato a to reduce the expenditure of the Government."
4iletail'4,lority, Now he (Sir R. Peel) defied any man to draw. from
a motion similar to that then under con-
bletiso nnt and immediately after the adoption of that these premises such a conclusion as the following, for in-
sttireela; ,the Lords of the Treasury had addressed a ! stance:—" Whereas the present taxation of the country
"els,. to all the heads if public departments, stating depresses all classes, and especially the labouring classes,
itith,
tree this House is of opinion that it would be desirable to re-
'.4 desire to have all the eitimates prepared
~Nletti e meat rigid economy. He further found that vert to the principles of taxation which were in force
't,sooo,oo°", in the public expenditure to the amount of before the year 1842, and to impose duties on the import
:11t tt (. had been effected within the last three years. of those raw materials on which the industry of the
",.°4t ,"ofessel that when he looked to the items of • labouring classes chiefly depends."—(Hear, hear.) Still
he thought, would it be in the power (Ibis Hon.
nhitiiPenditure, as it tat present stood, he could see no 'less,
11,11 e i, ItY of reducing it t ) an extent sufficient to meet Friend to draw any such conclusion as the following
nog t,‘v! of his Hon. Friend. Ho presumed that his from those premises :—" Whereas the present taxation
• cf the country depresses all classes, and especially the
Nit oo r'end could not mean to interfere with the into-
*ith thine national debt nor with the Civil Litt, nor I labouring classes, this House is of opinion that the taxes
t'tittsle e° charges •en the' Consolidated Fund, with the , which were reduced, or repealed, in the year 1842, and
i in subsequent )ears—natnelv, the taxes on corn, on
h'e eoexcePtion of the salaries of the judges • nor with
' meat, on live animals, on salt meat, on bacon, on cheese,
ttlsCp restive service of the army navy' and ord-
I and on butter, shall be restored to their former amount."
Alie which was guaranteed by Parl(ament,to former
1/4koiettse'dr vents. Now, the whole of those charges ! —(liear, hear.) It would be utterly impossible for his
ittssiottil to 34 000 His nom Friend would, het Hon. Friend to justify such a conclusion as that from
fetati ' provide for the maiut •nance of armaments for 1 his premises. No; that which his Hon. Friend meant
Mho -1),,Ial defence. Even his lion. Friend the Member —and it was a fact—was that the taxation that remained
°oooeneat Riding of Yorkshire would leave a sum of pressed heavily on the productive industry and on the
'llte 4,/. to meet that charge; and that would give a comforts of the labouring classes, and that it was
'Intl:oat:1,000,00On Then there were the miscellaneous therefore desirable that all practicable economy should
,iletion mates ,000,0001.
to 3 SOO 000/ in which some re- be introduced into the public expenditure. That he
17,414-otinohight be effected' from' time to time; but the believed to be the motion of his Hon. Friend, and that
he believed to be his. view and the view of those Hon.
)tati elm ‘4,11t of all those items could not be much less .
oild ,5z,,,47,000,0m. Under these circumstacices he j Gentlemen who might vote with him. He thought it
I would be utterly impossible for those who merely wished
,r,e,,, "'en lion. Friend where he could find a margin
tort to "'en Sufficient to enable him to diminish taxa- I to bring to an issue the question of an adherence to, or
an abandonment, of, our recent commercial policy, to
mac te",eettent which would give any very sensible
!'itltain the industrious clastes of this country? He follow his Hon. Friend so far as any commercial ques-
tailthof j.(l that unless they were prepared to shake the tion was involved in his resolutions. He agreed with
tililless th" public creditor° in the honour of that House, , the Hon. Gentleman who had seconded the motion, that
tt',Y hatieY meant to violate the engagements into which ' the merits of the commercial policy adoptel in this
Ferry 0 entered with public servants, they cowl i not country of late years should be mainly tested by the
eti at the •
'lid t e views of his Hon. Friend. But his Hon. answer to this question:—" Has the social condition of
j,th4t thenfaci asked towards the conclusion of his speech the labouring classes in this country been improved by
i 51:13,
iv artners should be allowed to employ their land l the adoption of the principles of free trade, or has it
ill, (11seasl they might think proper. and his Hon. Friend thereby been deteriorated—has, or has not, the command
(llibitiesing that point had particularly referred to the of the labouring classes over the comforts and the
that p, tin this country to plant tobacco. Now he necessaries of life been increased by the abolition of
t ee, tCratile) should remind the House, in the first the legislative restrictions en the import of food?"
hot lea at the duty on tobacco had last year produced The Honourable Gentleman said—and no doubt said
4 ago than 4,400 0001. ; and in the next place truly—that if they could prove to him that the adop-
j'htritin,,,l observe that before the Act prohibiting the tion of the principles of free trade had really added to
tt',De47, itif tobacco in this country had been passed in the comforts of the labouring classes, he should at once
I''' 6 1829, it had been ascertained that tobacco could become a convert to those principles. The Honourable
11,1)rtar!tr°syn here without a protective duty to the Gentleman admitted. that if the result had been pro-
itt Coetti amount of somewhere near 600 per cent. duced, no consideration could justify the continuance cf
eilion, lettned that his Hon. Friend, in framing that that protection which he said was nscessary for the
iii lett tit at, not clearly and distinctly stated the views general benefit of the community. Well, he (Sir R.
Coale) - wished to see carried into effect. He (Mr. F. Peel) thought that, so far as they could place any reli-
i:i'liori oernuld not see a way of either approving of that ance on the documents with ehiich they had been fur-
telltd tripelf meeting it with a direct eisgative. It con- nished—so far as they could judge of the praseat ad
Nt'llseiol2ess which he could not deny, but, taken in ministration of the poor-law, and cf the number of un-
tatted, it i with the speeches by which it had been sun- employed poor—so far an they could form a judgment
tlts tie ied to conclusions in which he could not con- ef the state of the rural districts—they had no right to
kotlght jo the therefore ails the House not to be infer that the comforts even of the agricultural classes
,ltetl tht he trap set for them by his Hon. Friend. He had been curtailed by the abolition of protection. He
110'thie, 11 would well weigh their votes upon that oc- knew that in some parts of the country—and he deeply
Ittlea sih.tegatked them not to give their approval to a regretted the fact—great distress prevailed; but they
th %eh l'u, if carried, would spread doubt and dismay
ntt all should not consider the agricultural classes only. The con•
let that Parts of the country. He felt convinced dition of the gre tie mass of the working community was
t tliatieo would be the result of their adoption of the the test by which that question should be tried. Speak-
Old netl of his Hon. Friend; hut as he felt that be ing, then, not of the whole body of the working classes,
ti!igtee it "enY the Abstract truth of those resolutions, he but of tho agricultural labourers, he himself doubted
bettioeilgattoineet the proposal by moving the previous win ther at this moment, after the abolition of protection,
i ...rr, k . (Flea,-, hear.) there was net a greater command of all that was essential
teltg MANGLES said that he hat the happiness of to the enjoyment of humble life than at the period of pro •
"tout,- near net tection. The lion. Gentleman said that there was much
zlibof his Hon. Friend who had
1. 6.qt
ill' sup„, forward that motion, and as he had not last retrenchment. Why there had been great distress and a
14/4 lacertel a moticn very reaely resembling it, he demand for retrenchment at other periods, and those
,at pti; crten asked by his constituents why he had periods when protection existed to the utmost. Yet the
e'llioes-411'd a different course. He was, therefore, Hon. Gentleman seemed to think that the recurrence of
the
.distress and demand was
.an impeachment of the
;54tt'dle -4ottio take that opportunity of stating to th justice of the commercial principles which had cf late
th'etillito 100 his Lion. Friend why he had not sup- years been adopted by this country. The Hon. Gen-
-I<i the st year, and why he could not support him tleman would do well to consider whether or not it was
14'41 to Present occasion. The reason was—and he to the operation of free trade that the present low prices
t4ee, pat,ate it without the slightest discourtesy to were attributable. In his (Sir R. Peel's) opinion it had
‘i ttrie„.2lend—that he had no such reliance on his been conclusively shown in preceding discussions that
tibe°l4lcl ion: such reliance on his political consistency, there were other causes acting concurrently with the re-
-4e r Politic nee him to follow him upon that or upon any moval of restriction which had produced these low
Iptin„, `talquestion.—(Elesr, hear, and laughter.) At pricen—(llearn hear)—that there were other MISTS
tittli),...°C'eld some time since at the White Lion—(A now in operation, which would in a great measure ac-
-4,t itraoti 's Ron. Friend had taken great credit to Lim- count for the depreciation in agricultural prices. But
kedearg the assembled agriculturists fur his having his Hon. Friend (Mr. Drummond) said that he insisted
O l.""ter ford the motion of the Honourable upon it that free trade should he extended, and he
kit,te „,, the West Riding of Yorkshire for effecting again referred to the growth e f tobecce. To promote
Iti'ing II•is"'"Inti01r in the national expenditure. At that the growth of tobacco in some parts of Ireland might be
Go that chhead done him (Mr.. Mangles). the honour to a benefit ; but he did not contend that a tax of 300 per
tea' trig, had voted with him upon that occa- cent. should be levied on foreign tobacco, and that
koh'clenti; Consequence was that he (Mr. Mangles) had the tobacco produced at home should be free of
kftels'tteee 'tPeetel that his Hon. Friend would have duty. Did he propose that home-grown tobacco
tli'"ber f."' similar motion brought forward by the Hon. should be subjected to excise regulations, and then
het litt°gr the West Riding on Friday last. But al- be liable to pay the same duties as foreign tobacco ?
ailing, 11;stail seen his lion. Friend in the House that He said he was no friend of protsction ; but that would
fltreaPPeartad been much surprised to find that he had be protection to allow the growth of tobacco in this
14' the r 'e• the lobby, and that he had fled away country, and send it into the ma,ket free of duty,
tlttldisiouvision. That was ono reason why he was not whilst the grower of the foreign article was charged
sot tee pitied to follow his Hon. Friend, and why, with- 300 per cent. What he apprehended the Hon. Gentle-
atillslp ing aLy disrespect to his Hon. Friend, he could man meant was, that legislative protection should be
!klle2,ll43°l_,(3lting at that motion as one of those motions removed, but that as excise duty, correseonding to the
ItV 4 fig 'too. Friend the Member for Middlesex had customs duty, should be imposed. If so, then all he
t, iss -s" in the pan" .•
00e..e0 w. . motions. He was prepared to (Sir U. Peel) could say was, that a smaller amount of
,lti 'it%
,Ith his Hon. Friend as regarded the present benefit to the agricultural interest was never proposed.—
Ii: kai cli the agricultural labourers in this country. (Hear, hear.) Then with regard to the hop duty, his
i l,l utaeoee.
et)4 en. v . u that in the district from which he and Hon. Friend lived in a hop county, and on a fine August
!trkreta mead came the great body of the agricultural evening it would no doubt be a picturesque scene to
ettisist thwaere in - • • '•untaxed hops.
a better condition at the present witness the labourers gathering Well,
nt bee an 4 they had been in before the corn-laws the Hon. Gentleman had great sympathy with the
tt leott,,,,rePealed. Last Sunday ho had been in unfortunate labourer who was prevented from growing
tlletnalebe of a labourer, who had not been his hops, but he wished the Bon. Gentleman would
41. e at himself,. his wife alone having been consider the position of others in less favoured pasts of
Ai, bran
"the time.—(Laughter.) Well, but his the country, to whom a removal of the impediments upon
liChlvoie, g"s) own lady had been there with him. growing hops would be of no advantage whatever. Did
‘e..r. told him that her husband was employed he thin, when he said that duties must be re-imposed
Olt Latek,:,q'tetititi eh r, at Manor Farm, on wages of 12r. a upon corn, that to a man circumstanced as the Paisley
qiN;lsti the" added that with that sum they were Letter or Lancashire weaver it would be any satisfaction to
ko, earl,. Y had formerly been when her husband had he told, " You have permission to collect your hops—
't ,N the trig 15s• a week. The Hon. Baronet who had you may gather them from the hedge ; but it is neces-
ase am 1
i e se, enement to the Address on the first night nary that you should pay a heavy duty upon your bacon,
:4441ttaiiste5cioih had stated that & lied in Lincolnshire cheese,' and corn? lam going to int.roduce. a prohibitory
atil,. R a the most perfect manner possible. But duty open the import of corn and live animals, and the
the gamete ales) found that atrecent meeting held in compensation I offer you is permission to grow, hops
it It nsig -
ithout legislative interference." • No; that same prin-
t' tlt sy. Si Ire, in a district adjoining Lincolnshire, et
' el' r Q'• Robinson,Protectionist,had declared
ii f ret_,.• . a ciple which made his Hon. Friend desire that the laho-urer
'titi,°(teti",,Llenists whom he was addressing that he of Surrey and Sussex should be permitted t,) grow hops,
te'lleeehetne thistles so strong in some fields in that was eel- able of a mach larger exten)ion, and the labourer
,gamesotu,,uci that he should have supposed they had would be much more benefited by getting his provisions
it toe .or a fox-cover et g tha. had it not been that they were et the lowest rate, than by giving him permission to
litleame t the foxes could not have broken through grow hops, and reviving the tax upon f cod. Ile looked
'el ties) h'lsive cheers, and laughter.) He (Mr. upon his Hon. Friend's intention as a bonafide intention
Cot, i ad no hesitation .
(elk, a,e, Hai in saying that the land in Ito justify a resolution of the House in favour cf protec-
4, Iner'e than
be improved to an extent which t:ve duties. He could not vote for the motion of the
it resent) compea:ate for the redaction which Honourable Member for the W, st Riding (Mr. Cobden)
leiee. 'Yy„teaken place in tho puke of agricultural the other night, because he believed that in that mo-
'.rttit' to n kr ew a case in which a tenant had been tion the recitals were not correct, that the principle
fl'ia°l'd Paysaving
75/. a year for a farm of 104 acres, but the which he assumed of bringing the expenditure down
tOtyc'tl it e recently drained and otherwise im- Ito the amount of any particular year was a fallacious
it to„ lied
tt,, erten let it to a man with abundant capital, principle, and that to attempt to carry it out would
IlttOttreta'..• 3'ears, at the rate of 130/. a year. His ' teal to mischief. (Hear, hear.) It appeared to
!ey °f Friend Friend had spoken in terms of great sym- him that the motion of his Hon. Friend was open
lettiiio the condition of the small landowners to many of the objections which were urged against
It ° to e°llat
ele,.; sa, rY• But he (Mr. Mangles) could under- that of Mr. Cobden s. They he th concurred in depre-
-41 Oa ', that in his part of the country the value eating taxation which pressed upon the labouring classes,
`(iihtt,,t eeevtr°Perty had increased 100 per cent. within and that in order to relieve them there should be a re-
(! tlt,l 0,:1113% Great complaints of agricultural clis- duction of expenditure—Mr. Cobden said to the extent
ttltefitl3l; bet "libt proceeded from different parts of the of 6,000,000/. or 7,000,000/., but his lion. Friend did not
kl' t ectee,_that could not be wondered at by any one who propose any specific sum; he simply declared that ade-
tl4l,s'plet4°o discouragin language held to the farmers (pate means should be adopted to reduce the expendi-
,l,"liti riteri It of the Protectionist party. His Honour- tune of the country. He (Sir R. Peel) concurred with ,1
ntstells„"tnew how he (Mr. Mangles) had been de- him. He believed that adequate means should be
'ltt.."ii they acs constituents—(Leughter)—for not having
It ', th v6N,,, adopted for that purpose, but he would tell him from past
e tie •at 411 sof that party. Be felt convinced, how- experience that if the House of Commons saw that the
et 'tit the • ,
4t, of agriculturists required was energy and Government seas impressed with the necessity of re-
i-1 tits self-reliance to enable them to meet the trenchment, and was proceeding gradually in the course
tilt, I. I
?arlestances in which they were placed. of retrenchment, he doubted whether upon the whole it
41:: trttir,42ll-4 said he should imitate the example of i was not better for the House of Commons to stand by
take its own
tit •iy t `lten who had preceded him, by stating as ! and permit the Government to . course,
541 3he a eneral declarations of economy
(I • Possibly could the grounds upon which he I rather than to make g .
Ree 1,, Y
gee,titi li,r"'s vote upon that occasion. The motion of I
! without pointing out the mode in which it was to be
accomplished. Now he would tell his Hon. Friend that
lit, °r tt Q lend might be considered either in a commer 1 he had no confidence in the persevering, reflecting, sys-
Iht man theallejai point of view. The Right Her. Gen- I (emetic economy of the House of Commons. He knew
eiqtteitie Secretary at War professed to consider that that House was very apt to have hot and cold fits of
'hat he knew. He ,
tyilt,3:l was meant to imply opinions open commer_ saving.—(Hear, and a laugh.) 'I
N 411 ti -ctsr and that his Friend really intended knew that et one time the Route of Commons would be.
it 44, kri the Hon.
1) tlii,the cet /louse to come to a decision onfavourd- decidedly in favour, he would riot say of a lavish expendi-
tura, but of considerable expenditure, and that at ano-
-4el),'. eoully.e2naercial policy which bad been pursued
IN had th Y of late years. Now he (Sir Robert I their time. it would be decidedly in favour of a sudden
sit • °tee at ee • and - flue ; , and) precipitate retrenchment. He was speaking now of
15 tif , !at, TT_ commence in the euity in. op.- !
R'• form Parliament, and he did not believe that, judg-
,i_rk,..lit,i,,3 11-2.(lntrui•able Friend that:l he firmly bilieved i a
ing from its course for several successive years, the Re-
t,itle t,",tss tttem•pEn. end had ant eel, . to. aks,sk
cttliceowHinoue..se_ 1
.t.
.. j. form Parliament had prometed economy. This he knew
I' t`t":11:y, la'_e i len upon those principles
nettedth it tli.ewGe.rearsnment thwll he bad been con-
f'ret see w e would have ft atned his resolution to that i
ether Governments, had had very
),11i,elett, issued have broneht that great question to ! na' H.
itlt ,IC'eal 0,, in- te sd !f" attartinn by the use ef, great difficulty in prosperous times, and when the hot fit
of expenditure was upon the House ef Commons, in re-
satl"CtEtio' -grass:, t; gLneoadvantageb,which he could i
sisting the desire of the House to increase the expend-
,",,till If:" had we'd aid' mist d inthellieible language. 1
ttettlea ils could he believelre thatan his Hon'. Friend really tnre. Therefore, though he d not deny that, when-
ever there ens a pressure poneuoam classes, there was a
tld'a iZetiarpoiinaicyltlywhiacuh iopadinbieen unfavourable to the
warm desire for immediate retrenchment; yet, he had
been pursued in this coun-
more confince in the progressive, reflecve retrench-
btttel?ti, tie,Y;"•ri, because he had the other nicht heard 1
ment of fide Go.ve; nment, than he had ntithe varying,
lei tells ;:c_llid declare‘ that in his opinion it would' have
I vacillating policy or the House of Commons, with regard
it`q,44,oi!ll,o.ll'a Le a tth e terminationi f the war to have
to a reduction of the exeenditurie Were they then to
tlllet:thil. aenlotiutllegislation the
.prica ()of food in England
vote for the motion if his lion. Friend in favour of eco-
ttlltt breLlitticittook credaiat its rice on the.tcentA. t.° Hie
of the viees notny? If they did, he thought, after the i xperience of
the last fortnight, they would he placed in a most pecu-
i''telit InefaleL' entertainedin theeys'aagr alcSilys °and declared
liar position. An abstract vote for the reduction of the
no' the been his publicl- np- le,ssed op, anion at that I
expsnditure would justify the country in the expectation
taileW etstueY could‘e' - ..f.' I l g! raise the I
not. by arti tete means,. . 1 that there was about to be a vast reduction of expendi-
'kl,4ttett,A tikt;r:l,here. to a higher rate than the, which it
tare. Why, if they agreed to that resolution, where
t Si. %t cc Y bring. Then, again, he found from a
would they make their reductions? He was truly sorry to
rot' the ' the hiiglit Hon. Geetleman the Secretary at
- I hear his Hon Friend talk so loosely about keeping • •
faith
4tlit`ad:' at no very remote period the principles a
with
the '. . . , .
ttt :hill ' or, of least
th dim iio th -, the abohtien of legisiative re-
tions, position, and high character of his Hon. Friend.
t4e ' 8 e suPply of food, had never had a more
itl, `els bore earnest, or a more persevering advocate lie thought it unworthy alike of his position and cha-
hitt"terr in. Friend.' (Heat. ) -Nie; cou--;iitie. those
his pt'ltelarations with-that ere-IFt fur sagacity
.'
1140 n. Friend claimed for 'having alts' f
ys _...)re- •
reeler to countenance such ax: notions with respect to
pee firming our obligations to the public creditor. But
what war the great depat talent of the e xpenditure which
he intended to reduce? Was it the salaries of the pub-