The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-30 00:00:00

commanders, 33. It was not by the pay that officers
were kept in the service, but by the hopes of obtaining
those rewards and distinctions to which they looked for-
ward throughout the whole of their lives.—(Cheers.)
A comparison had been made between the British and
the American service; but the half-pay in the latter was
higher than in the former. He would not venture any
crude suggestions on the subject. He did not mean to
say, as the lower class officers had been reduced, that
it might not be right to reduce the higher class also; but
it was not advisable at the present moment to press such
an arrangement, and the more he considered the subject
the more he felt convinced that it would be a most un-
wise economy to adopt the recommendation of the Com-
mittee in this respect. Ho apprehended his Hon. Friend
would not divide on the question in its present shape;
but he thought it nevertheless right to state that he was
not prepared to make any alteration at present. -
Captain PELHAM thought an acquiescence in the
motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose would be
equivalent to a breach of faith. The best remedy would
be to practise economy in the saval expenditure. Great
reductions had already been made in the establishments
of our dockyards, and he believed they might be carried
much farther, especially by adopting the system of build-
ing the smaller vessels by contract. Great reductions
might also be made in the number of seamen employed
in the fleet. He would disfranchise ovary; man
employed in the dockyards, and would not have so many
of the Admiralty sitting in Parliament.
Mr. COBDEN observed that it was said out of doors
that whenever retrenchment was the order of the day

they always began with the weaker parties, but it would
now be known whether the House was influenced by
aristocratic prejudices, or not. The report of the Com-
mittee recommended that the number of admirals should
be gradually reduced from 150 to 100, not by dismissing
any of them, or depriving any existing admiral of his
flag, or his rank, or his pay. They would miaow see
if equal justice was to be done. But they were told
that even under existing circumstances there
was little chance enough of promotion. Now, it ap-
peared to him that the navy was kept up for the pur-
poses of war, and officers who entered the service in
times of peace must not look to promotion to the same
extent as in time of war. The service ought not to be
made the means of providing offices to serve the interests
of individuals, but should be regulated with reference to
the public requirements, otherwise they would be sub-
stituting principles of charity and benevolence in the
place of justice to the interests of the community at
large. For these reasons he would support the motion
of his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose.
Admiral DUNDAS said the number of admirals had
been diminished. In 1816 there were 220, and now
only 150, which was not too large a number for the re-
quirements of the service.
Mr. HUME maintained that the naval service, in its
present condition, was more like a pension list than
anything designed to carry out the legitimate objects of
the public service.
Captain BERKELEY said there could not be a
greater mistake than to suppose that the navy was main-
tained for the sake of providing places for the aria•
tocracy, for most of those who had attained the highest
rank had entered the service perfectly friendless. Ho
knew instances in which men had served twenty-seven
years, and had ultimately arrived at the rank of rear-
admiral, with the pay of 4501. a year. Now, he should
like to see any man after the same period of service in
any public office ashore who would not be in a better
position. Let them make a just bargain with the ser-
vice if they pleased, but he protested against the breach
of faith which was involved in the motion of the Hoe.
Member for Montrose.
Mr. BRIGHT denied the existence of any bargain
that a man on entering the service should be made an
admiral at some period of his life.—(Hear, hear.) It
was the strangest idea of the public service he had ever
heard. The only contract with a man on entering the
service was, that upon certain principles laid down,
either according to seniority or merit, they should have
promotion to reach such a stage as their services and
length of life would permit.
Colonel THOMPSON could not help saying that he
was obliged to agree with the Hon. Member for Man-
chester that there could not by possibility be any such
principle as officers claiming promotion beyond that
which waa necessary for the service. He never heard
such a principle spoken of in the service to which he had
the honour to belong. He was sure that a cornet did not
expect to be a lieutenant till a lieutenant was wanted, or
a lieutenant expect to be a captain till there was a troop
for him. He, therefore, felt under the necessity of voting
with the Hon. Member for Manchester.

Admiral BO WLES supported the vote.
Mr. HUME remarked that it was the Admiralty itself
that proposed in 1830 that only one should be promoted
to the rank of admiral. for every three vacancies, till the
number was reduced to 100; but the Admiralty did not
act up to that.
Sir F. T. BARING said it was his firm conviction,
that if they carried out the recommendation of the Com-
mittee, it would at first be attended with an increase of
expense. He did not mean to say but that by a well-
considered scheme they could reduce the number of ad•
mirals, and effect a saving thereby.
Mr. CORRY supported the vote on the ground that
not to make the promotion would be to commit a breach
of faith.

- Captain PECHELL complained that Captain Sir
Henry Hart, the bydrographer of the navy, and another
officer who held another appointment, bad been com-
pelled to agree to their names being placed on the re-
tired list, being informed that they must either do this
or give up their appointments, while a junior officer had
bee❑ permitted to bold the situation of Commissioner of
Greenwich Hospital, and was nut required to place him-
self on the retired li st.

Sir T. ACLANI) said it was true there was a majo-
rity of the Committee in favour of the recommendation,
but the Chairman, who did not vote, was against it, and
that made it equal. The saving by carrying out the
recommendation would only be 10,0001. a year, and in a
great maritime country like this he did not think that
was an object to put in comparison with the just expec -
tations of the gallant men who were waiting for their
promotion.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was not injlae House when
the discussion commenced, and there fire he was not
aware what was the precise form of the motion, but he
imagined that in point of form it was not a reduction in
the number of admirals that was proposed by the Hon.
Member for Montrose, but that he had raised that ques-
tion by proposing some small diminution in the vote.
In point of substance, the Hon. Member wished to raise
in this Committee the question that was discussed in the
Naval Committee, w'nere the proposition was carried for
which he (Sir J. Gra deem) held himself responsible, that
there should be a re, luction in the number of admirals
from 150 to 100. The Hon. Gentleman the ►Member
for Devon said that reduction would not be of any great
use, but still they ought to consider that it was a saving;
and the right point to which the House of Commons
ought to come was, that in the state service there
ought to be no unnecessary expense. Now he was bound
to say that his Hon. Friend the Member for Tyrone was
equally right in the assertion that the gradual re-
duction of the number of officers on half•pay in the
navy, so far as admirals were concerned, had not yet
been carried into effect by only permitting one promo-
tion in three vaca.cancies.. The real question was whether
the time had arrived for making the rule which pervaded
all other ranks apply to admirals. Now, it appeared in
evidence that at no time during the war was there a
greater number of admirals employed by this country
than 32, and the it the number employed at the present
time did not ex Seed. 12. Now, he was decidedly of opi-
nion that altho ugb the admirals' list must be considered
more or less as, a reward for past services, yet it was a
question of de gre 9, and they must bear in mind what were
the real wants of the service. It would not do to main-

taro either in the army or navy a very large number of
admirals or generals merely with a view to the reward
for past services, without any regard to the wants of the
public. He hoped that his Right Honourable Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not been misled
by a pamphlet recently published by a banker, in which
it was stated. that the people of this country were
amongst the most lightly taxed of any people—that di-
rect taxation might be carried out much further, and in-
direct taxation also extended. He hoped the Right
Hon. Gentleman had not been misled by any of these
arguments. He (Sir J. Graham) questioned whether
the people of this country were lightly taxed. At all
events he was sure that taxation in time of peace had
arrived at its maximum, and the Right Hon. Gentleman
twist be aware feat either with direct or indirect taxation
there was considerable difficulty in maintaining the bur-
dens that now existed. He was satisfied the time had
arrived when every practicable economy must be carried
out in every branch of the public service.—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to the army and navy, there were points
where that economy must commence; and it must com-
mence, not with the lower, but with the higher ranks of
the professions.—(Hear.) He would be the last man to
desire that that principle should be carried into effect
rashly, suddenly, or to the injury of those who had a just
claim for immediate promotion, but gradually some better
system might be introduced into the higher ranks of
both services. In time of peace 150 admirals and 270
generals were a larger number than were required.—
(Hear.) The proposition before the Select Committee
was that the number of admirals should be gradually
reduced from 150 to 100, that, as upon the death of three
captains they only promoted one, and as on the death of
three commanders, they only promoted one lieutenant,
so, on the death of three admirals, only one should be
promoted, till the number was reduced to 100.—(Hear,
hear.) It might be said that, considering the age of the
post-captains, the probability was, if that rule were
adopted, that in a short time there would be no admirals
sufficiently young and activ a to undertake the important
duties of naval commande'ts. But the Committee had
also proposed, in order to give vigour and activity to the
higher branches of the service, that one out of every
three promotions should not go by seniority, but that,
on the responsibility of the Admiralty, ufilcers of
distinguished merit, without reference to seniority,
should be raised to the rank of admiral; whereby the list
would derive the benefit of both vigour and seniority.
Having propounded that view in the Committee, and
having since reflected on it attentively and maintained
it, he did not hesitate to support it now, both by his
speech and his vote.—(Hear, hear.) He was decidedly
of opinion that this measure should be adopted, both
with reference to the efficiency of the service, and to the
just claims of the public, for the commencement of some
economy in this branch of the service; and that it ought
also to be extended to the army, as a feasible and safe
proposition. The army stood on better grounds than
the navy; for though the numb©r of generals was 270, a
very large reduction ha 3 been effected within a short
period, the non-effective charge having been reduced
nearly 90,0001. a year tines 1846; while in the navy the
charge for the non-efloctive service was 88,0001. a year
more than it was in 1846. Since the termination of
the war, the reduction of the dead weight in the army
held been progressive and great, while in the navy it bad
been almost stationary and comparatively nothing. It was
absolutely necessary that a beginning should be made in
reducing the non-effective portion of this service, and

that beginning ought to be with the higher ranks. The that the Chairman report progress, and ask leave to sit
First Lord of the Admiralty would probably say that again.—(Why? why?) It was necessary for him to call
when a vacancy occurred the command was instantly the attention of the House to the course pursued by
taken ; but ho was told that when a vacancy occurred in , II m. Gentlemen opposite in a matter personal to him-
the East India and China station there was great di/ii- ' self. Abott throe o'clock in the day he had crossed over
culty in filling it up; that three or four refused it; that to the Ministerial benches and asked the Right Hon.
the officer who had gone out there was nearly seventy Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade (Mr.
years of age; and that there had been some arrangement Labouchere) when be would take the third reading of
whereby he took the command.—[Sir F. T. BARING the Mercantile Marine Bill? The Right Honourable
was understood to deny this.] If this were the ease in Gentleman informed him at twelve o'clock to-morrow,
time of peace, what would be the condition of the ser- when the Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary of
vice if unhappily we were involved in war? It was in- State, who was sitting beside him, said, " You must
dispensable to have youth and vigour on the admirals' mistake—the amendments on the Irish Franchise
list; and that could only be attained by promoting by Bill are to come on at twelve o'clock to-morrow, to
merit, as well as by seniority, to the extent of one in which their consideration is adjourned; you mean twelve
three. He considered this point the most important o'clock to-night." To which the President of the
which had been brought before the Select Committee, Board of Trade replied, " Yes, I mean twelve
and ho could not hesitate now to support the view ho o'clock to-night, and I nope you (Lord J. Manners) will
had there advocated. have no objection to the third scaling of the Mercantile
Sir F. BARING wished that his Right Hon. Friend Marine Bill being moved after all the other orders." He
would show, rather by figures than by general phraset, replied, " Certahtly not; and that having an amendment
what he meant by enforcing economy. He did not re- to move, he would offer no obstruction to the third read-
gard this as a question of economy at all. The entire ing, whenever it came on." Both the Right Hon. Gen-
saving, even if you could reduce the number of admirals tlemen seemed perfectly satisfied with that arrangement,
from 150 to 100, would scarcely exceed 10,0001; and it and expressed themselves morn or less pleased at the co-
was nu question with him whether this would be a real operation ho gave to them in prcceeding with the Bill.
saving to the country, while it would be a great injustice With that understanding he left the House; and on his
to a noble service. Even if the Government were to return, fund the third reading of the Mercantile Marine
adopt the principle of appointing admirals on the ground Bill had actually been moved—whether by either of the
of merit alone, those officers would grow oldaand they Right Hon. Gentlemen he did not know, at half-past
did not require merit only in their admirals, bat also seven o'clock that evening, and had been carried.—(Bear,
youth and activity. If, however, the Government were hear.) All he knew was, the engagement entered into
to pass over the senior officers and select as admirals by those Right Honoureble Gentlemen, as members of
officers low in the list and young in the service, Government, had not been kept.—(Sir GEORGE GREY—
they might disregard merit to obtain the services of "There was not the smallest approach to an engage-
youth, and he feared such a course would occasion 1 ment.")—(Bear, hear.") The Right lion. Baronet
great dissatisfaction and discontent. That was not a I might say so, but if that sort of quibbling was al-
new suggestion, for on one occasion the power of the I lowed no engagement would be entered upon between
Crown had been exercised, and with great impar- 1 Hon. Members and the Government. He would ask the
tiality, in favour of a young officer, but that step, President of the Board of Trade whether, in all the
created great dissatisfaction, and if his recollection 1 transactions relating to the Bill, he had not shown the
was correct, the House interfered so harshly that the I greatest nr xiety to consult his convenience, and whether
practice was abandoned. He begged to say, in reply to Ihe had exhibited the least wish to offer to it a factious
the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, that no arrangement opposition? He had then a right to complain, and ho
of the nature ho had alluded to had been made with the i did complain, of that sort of conduct, and all those ar-
gallant admiral in command on the East India station. rangements which tended so much to the mutual conve-
The Right Hon. Baronet bad also asked whether it was nience of the members of the Government must in fu-
true that that command had been offered to two officers ture be disregarded; and it would be the duty of Hon.
before it was accepted by the gallant admiral by whom t Gentlemen on this side of the House to exert every sort
it was now held. It was perfectly true that the appoint- of opposition to Government, and to disregard all state-
ment had been declined by two admirals, on the ground went sof Ministers except those made publicly in their
that their health would not enable them to undertake places. Had it not been for the declaration of the Right
the duties, and he (Sir F. Baring) thought those gallant 1 Hon. Gentleman, he (Lord J. Manners) would have
officers had acted most conscientiously in declining the I been in his place ready to propose the amendment which
offer on that ground. He was far from saying that if stood in his name on the paper, and he appealed to the
the present arrangement did not work well, the whole House whether the Right Hon. Gentleman bad acted on
subject ought not to be considered, but he did not think this occasion in the way in which he bad acted hitherto,
it would be advisable to consider the case of the admirals or if his conduct had been what he (Lord J. Manners)
apart from that of the service generally. had a right to expect —(Heer, bear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM observed, ;that the Right Hon. Ba- Mr. LABOUCHERE said be should be very sorry
ronet called upon him to state the precise amount of indeed if any conduct on his part could have rendered
saving he proposed to effect by reducing the list of him justly liable to the imputation of having acted in
admirals from 150 to 100. He could only say that if any way but with the most scrupulous fidelity in any
the reduction of one-third in the number of admirals engagements he might have made with any Honour-
would effect no material saving in the half-pay of admi- able Member. He felt very deeply the important cha-
rats it was a case of despair.—(Hear, hear.) The Right rector of those engagements, and how much the conve-
Hon. Baronet appeared to think that it would not be uience of the House and the dispatch of business de-
possible to add any fresh youth, vigour, and activity to pended on their being adhered to with the most iavio-
the list by means of selection. If then they could table fidelity. But he hoped, before he sat down, to
neither reduce the expense, nor render this class of remove from the mind of the Noble Lord the false im-
officers more efficient by infusing health and vigour into pression under which he seemed to labour. It was
it, he (Sir J. Graham) thought the case of the admirals quite true, both as to the Noble Lord rind as to other
was desperate.—(Hear, hear.) Members, that he (Mr. Labouchere) had stated, if the
Mr. HENLEY said this was a very important ques- discussion which had occupied the greater part of the day
tion, for it appeared that while the amount expended in should be brought to a close at any time before twelve
pay and wages for the effective force cf the navy was o'clock at night, that he should move the third reading
1,322,0001., the cost of the non-effective service was of the Mercantile Marine Bill, for he felt it to be of great
1,221,0001. —(Hear, hear.) He was satisfied this was a importance that that measure should be sent up to the
state of things the country would not allow to be coati- , other House of Parliament with as little delay as pos-
nued. For thirty-five years since the peace the system Bible, but he never for a single moment contemplated any-
had gone on without alteration, and they were now pay- thing so very extraordinary as letting the most conve-
img the same number of officers for doing nothing that nient opportunities pass by and keeping back that or
they were maintaining when they had a large naval force any other measure till 12 o'clock. Every one knew
afloat. He was glad this question had been raised, for that the discussion respecting the Baron do Rothschild
he considered the non-affective force cf the navy ought had ended much sooner than was expected, and if the
to be kept within more reasonable bounds, and he would Noble Lord had been taken by surprise, so also was he
cordially support the amendment. (Mr. Laboucbere), for he was himself not in the House
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished when the Bill was read a third time, his Noble Friend
to say a few words on this subject, as it was one with at the head of the Government being the Member who
regard to which he had had some Admiralty experience. then took charge of it, and by whom it was successfully
Ile must say he deprecated more than anything the in- pasted through its last stage, at which time the amend-
terference of the Howe of Commons in these matters.— ment that the Noble Lord bad intended to propose was
(Oh, oh, and a laugh.) He did not mean as to what moved by another Member. Having made this short
was to be done, but as to how it was to be done.— statement, he trusted the House would do him the justice
(Laughter.) When he became Secretary to the Ad- to believe that he never intended to take the Noble Lord
miralty a system of reduction was in active operation. by surprise. He hoped during the ten years he had had
It was going on rapidly, and what stopped it? a seat in that House he never pursued any course which
What was the cause of that increase of deadweight in could justify an imputation of any unfairness. He was
the navy, of which Hen. Gentlemen now complained ? sorry that any misapprehension should have occurred,
It was the interference of the House of Commons.— but he begged the House to observe that not only the
(A cry of "No," and a laugh.) Yes, it was the inter- Nettle Lord, but the lion. Member for Liverpool, was
Terence of the House with the reductions then in pro- also absent when the Bill was read a third time. There
gress. Several motions, as the Hon. Member for Mon- could not be a greater mistake than to suppose that he
trose might remember, were made and carried with a had ever made any such arrangement as the Noble Lord
view to accelerate the promotions, which the House had supposed him to make, for it would be so mani-
thought were not rapid enough, and the consequence featly against the course of order in that House that
was a great addition to the retired list. It mustnot be said, the Speaker would have interfered to prevent its being
then, that the Government had been anxious to continue carried into effect. He should conclude by repeating
the present system. He conscientiously believed that the an expression of regret that any misapprehension had
Government was far better able than the House of Com- arisen, and by hoping that the House would acquit him
mons to form a judgment as to the mode in which re- of intending to take any one by surprise.
ductions might be effected. Lord J. MANNERS said that no doubt the Right
Captain HARRIS observed that officers, whether Hon. Gentleman did not mean to take him by surprise,
admirals, captains, or lieutenants, were not made in a but he must be permitted to say that the Right Hon.
day, and it was necessary to keep up the half-pay system Gentleman had distinctly told him that be intended to
that they might have efficient men upon the list who take the Mercantile Marine Bill at twelve o'clock, after
would be available in case of emergency. He did not the other orders of the day were disposed cf, and he dis-
concur in the opinion of the Chancellor of the Exche- finally remembered the Home Secretary observing that
quer that the Executive Government could conduct they could not proceed with the Bill at twelve o'clock
changes in these matters most advantageously without tomorrow. The Right HOD. Gentleman the President
the interference of that House, for the House of Coin- of the Board of Trade might have meant that he would
mons was bound to take care that there was no extrava- proceed with the measure before twelve, but he said that
„ant outlay of the public money. he should not do so till twelve—he certainly fell into
The Committee then divided, when there appeared— some mistake, and deceived not only himself but him
For the amendment ... ... ... 72 (Lord J. Manners).
Against it ... ... ... ... 128 Sir G. GREY observed, that as ho had been appealed
Majority .•• ... ...-56 to he felt it due to himself to say, that he entered into
Sir G. PECHELL made some remarks:upon the mode no engagement whatever, but contented himself with ob-
in which the allowance for bringing specie from abroad serving that twelve o'clock to-morrow was a time already
was appropriated. occupied. Beyond that he had not opened his lips, but
Sir F. BARING said a few words in justification of he was bound now to state that be certainly understood
the system. his Right lien. Friend to say that after the debate which
Captain BOLDERO reminded the Right Hon. Gen- then occupied the attention of the House was concluded
tleman that this vote included surgeons and assistant- he should move the third reading of the Mercantile Mat
surgeons with respect to whom there was a recent vote rine Bill; but certainly no one expected that that debate
of the House ; he believed some regulation was to be would have been so soon over.
made for their benefit. Admiral BOWLES stated, that the Right Hon. Gene
Sir F. BARING had already explained to the Hon. tleman the President of the Board of Trade told him,
and Gallant Member the course intended to be pursued; not that he would wait till 12 o'clock, but that he would
a memorandum had been drawn up, and ,he arrangement proceed with the Mercantile Marine Bill, even if no op-
would be carried into effect. portunity of moving it occurred before 12 o'clock; that,
The vote was agreed to. if necessary, ho should go on with it as late as
The following votes were also agreed to:— 12 o'clock.
490,345/. for military pensions and allowances. Lord J. MANNERS said, that if the Right Hon..
167,086/. for civil pensions and allowances. Gentleman hadtoprise
told that
et h to
135,700/. for freight of ships for conveyance of tbheeensetratk.en by ser
troops, &c. .
he heirnevehresashidollalndynthotehgaveiti
21,1311. for extra pay, &c., of seamen and marines, Mr. ANDERSON rose to say that he had spoken tin
in lieu of spirits, and for extra pay, &c., for the Arctic the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade in the
Searching Expedition. lobby on the subject, when his reply to an inquiry was,
8,4801. fur extra provisions for the ships employed that it would probably be late that night, and, as he in-
in the Arctic Searching Expedition. tended to second the clause of the Noble Lord, he took
The next vote was 764,236/. for the Post-office packet the liberty of moving it in his absence.
The vote was then agreed to.
service.
Mr. SCOTT moved to reduce the vote by 50,000/., On the question that a sum of 211,1391. be granted for
charged for the conveyance of the India mails by the excess of naval expenditure,
East India Company's vessels. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY rose to call attention to a
Sir F. BARING reminded the Hon. Member that the sum of 29,5341. expended upon iron steamers. They did
payment must be made as long as the contract with the not derive that sum from any surplus, nor had they ex-
company subsisted. pended it with the consent of the Treasury. Further,
Lord NAAS thought that after the contradictory it was in clear violation of the Appropriation Act. At
statements they had heard from the Chancellor of the the same time he was bound to admit that the Board of
Exchequer and the Hon. Member for Honiton (Sir J. Audit had exercised all fitting vigilance upon the occa-
idm proposestances that
ender
thee
r
W. Hogg), it was understood the vote for the Indian siosn.rhFt the
e payment
pßonaynthm leNesneGt ngoerxoupacinaedionsuenat of
e
he
the should
circumstances mail service would be postponed till the House bad had proposed grant be reduced by the sum of 29,5341.
ny was the
an opportunity of judging what was the real state of the
case by the production of the correspondence between which
iron
taken steamerstepeywfears
the Government and the East India Company. made. The year before last money
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, these iron steamers. The estimates of the expenditure
that the production of the correspo:adence could have no for the next year were framed in the month of October,
effect
year,ehawn de presentedre
therefore
expected in lB4teht.
effect on a contract which had been already completed.the payments
terminatepß tu t
mh en foundts hre
afen
rt he
eat
actually
theteu a l contracts,ly
a terminationf() w
o,etehkes financialheyoad tyheeatri,adaaidei
financial
lyoyt
year. He
within that financial
Whatever opinion the House might have as to any future
gehetcotounktn,
know
wouhgohw nitothad
arrangement, it was evident that what had been entered
into by Government must be carried out.
Mr. HUME suggested, that in future an account
suetneated the excess, on the principle that Parliament
should be laid before Parliament o t the aeheral contracts,
Dense
the number of ships of the distances, and of the ex-
pense on one side; and of the profi ts, by passengers and
Foomusmuittedhtehef
legally compellable;occurred. ma d
e aan dp payment
emheandt
Mr. HENLEY thought the matter was not yet clearly
before
he thei
md
from other sources, on the other. No vote required a
closer scrutiny, and the opinion of competent persons out
of doors was, that many of our mail contracts were ex- Rightaelt
ofH ohne.vreagr Baronet t
excess,seemed
hotto
tremely extravagant. The House ought to have some say
intimation when new contracts were to be made. had shown it to Parliament, and that he might havecar-
tied it to another
Mr. SCOTT agreed with the Hon. Member that the f . year, without their knowing anything
votes for the mail service recpaired very close observe- 9 it. There was a third alternative—that of notspend-
mg in excess at all. The statement was not satisfactory
tion. It was rumoured that a certain company, who
were disappointed in getting the contract for the mails as to how the excess arose.
to the Brazils,
t were likely to obtain the contract for the Sir F. BARING had stated, in opening the estimates,
Cape mails, by way of making up for their disappoint- the ground of that excess, which occurred before he came
into office. A good deal of it arose from the number of
ment. The vote ought not to be passed without some men being carried beyond the vote, and from the pay of
explanation, though no Hon. Member connected with the men being taken on a wrong calculation.
Government had yet condescended to give any.
Sir F. BARING observed thin the statements to Mr. HOME did not believe they would get rid of these
which the Hon. Member referred v 'ere, like many others excesses until they came to a resolution that the Lords
brought against the Admiralty, qui to without foundation. of the Admiralty should pay the excess themselves.—(A
There was no truth in them; and it could not be ex- laugh.) He was quite ready to make the Right Hon.
petted that the time of the House wasto be taken up in Baronet pay it himself.
noticing every story that might be rumoured abroad. Sir J. GRAHAM observed that the excess was not
The Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) Quaid have every infor- incurred under the administration of the First Lord of
reation he desired as to the mail co ntracts. the Admiralty, and no one more agreed with the position
Sir J. GRAHAM inquired whist arrangements had laid down by the Hon. Member for Montrose than the
been made for the conveyance: of the mails between First Lord himself, that these excesses were to be care-
Holyhead and Dublin ? It had been strongly recom- fully avoided. It might he confidently anticipated that
mended by the Committee that I he same company who though it was difficult
under his administration, . to know
I Liverpooland Dublin how couldalways be avoided Parliament would
had carried the mails between
should become the lessees of the establishment, which to the utmost see an end punt to these grants. There
had cost the country a very coun'derable sum; and he was one principle to which the t Hon. Baronet had
observed that the expenses had increased since 1849. not adverted, that when any such unexpected expeudi-
Sir F. BARING was understood to reply that ar- ture was incurred, it was most desirable to have it
rangements had been made for carrying the mails by brought under the cognizance of the Treasury.t
contract, which would be carried into effect as soon as Mr. REYNOLDS
complained the,wlhle 700,000
possible. There were charges against the Admiralty gallons of rum were co
usuvmeretid in thelised to beuya tak avy, home-
on this point also, but they referred not to the Admiralty made spirits were not ad enavy,
under the
resolution
having done badly to the public, but to their haring contracts, though there was no Parliamentary
taken the lowest contract, which was said to bo so low giving a preference to rum.
t Mr.. FRENCH observed, that at the Admiralty the
that it could not be worked.
In r interests of Ireland were not represented. There was
Sir F. re l to a q uestion from Lord NAAS, .
BARING stated that the teodqrs for lhp.raail .no Irish Lord of the . Admiralty. Such was not the case
which
in the late Administration,supposed to be
contracts to the Cape welt's: be returnable onalie ledili `of . t of Irel wasncl
more adverse to the interests a The Member
August; and in reply to Mr. Scott, said that the ser-
for Tyrone (Mr. Corry) was then Secretary fur the Ad-
Invice would be taken by screw-s ;tempers.
reply to Mr. T. EGERTiON, miralty.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated Colonel would vote with
SIBTHORP .
in the two Hon.
that the Government intended to make the inner gar- Gentlemen who had just spoken favour of consuming
boor at Holyhead at the public expense. It would be, Irish whisky in the Royal Navy. rather than ruin; but he
could not understand how, with their views, they he considered, rather hard, under all the circumstances
sup-
to call on the railway compete rto contribute 200,0001., ported her Majesty's Minister!, of whom no man enter-
as originally agreed upon, but they would be deprived
of tamed a worse opinion in their public capacity than be
any exclusive advantages whiem
lie advised t Hon Gentleman
were contingent on that
contribution., leave the bad company in which he was placed. He
Lord J. MANNERS said h should remember that evil communications corrupted
e regretted to be obliged 8
by the conduct of her Majtors Government to more good manners; • ed
anet if he remain longer amongst his