The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-02 00:00:00

Great Britain. In Ireland they did not permit joint

tenants to exercise-the right of voting ; they didper-
mit them to do so in England. Again the
Government proposed to remove that disparity.
They did not propose to take away any
existing right, but to continue for the period of
eight years, every such right, without any other
question than the continuance of the same qualifica-
tion. But they proposed to make concurrently with
these changes a very great increase of the franchise ;

and he cited these two concurrent enactments, viz.,

the protection of every existing right, and the con-

ferring of a suspended right, as a proof that the mea-
sure was conceived in the spirit of fairness. It had
been constantly alleged that there was a great dis:

parity between the municipal franchise in England
and in Ireland. They had availed themselves of the

first opportunity of placing the municipal franchise
in Ireland on the same footing on which it existed in
England. They gave an alternative franchise in Ire-
land, either occupation amounting to 101., or the
holding of a tenement subject to the payment of the

rates. v So far as the municipal franchise was
concerned it would stand upon the same footing as it
did in England.—(Hear.) Great complaints had
been made as to the restrictions upon the right of
voting. They proposed in future to prevent the voter
from being disqualified, on account of the difficulty
under which he now lay of proving the payment of
every rate. That was the general effect of the mea-
sure which the Government proposed. They were
quite aware that there was a tendency in Ireland to
restrict the franchise, on account of the operation of
natural causes, and that legislative enactments would

probably have the same effect. They provided, how-
ever, a substitute which would make ample compen-
sation for the operation of both these causes, and
which would fulfil the expectations which the people
of Ireland had a right to form on this subject. As the
Noble Lord had justly said, the subject was one of ex-
treme difficulty. With respect to leases, he thought that
if they made the franchise dependent on the holders
of a lease, the power of the landlord to restrict its
exercise would be almost indefinitely extended ; he
ventured to say, that in a short time, the franchise
would be reduced to a degree which no one could
desire to see. They proposed, that the man who was
rated to a given amount should have the right of
voting. They now proposed, for the first time, a Si.
franchise in fee. On this subject, he must observe,
that some of the worst description of voters had been
those who voted under a 40s. franchise in fee; and
they had selected a 51. franchise as insuring a more
independent class than it was possible to get with
the smaller amounts.— (Hear.) He would not enter
into the details of this measure, which was brought
forward to fulfil the declarations made on the part of
her Majesty's Government.--(Hear, hear.) He re-
peated that he hoped Hon. Gentlemen would take
time to consider this question, and weigh the infor-
mation to which they had access, instead of expres-
sing a precipitate opinion as to the effect of the
measure. _ _ _ _ _ _

Mr. FRENCH would follow the advice which had
just been given by the Right Hon. Baronet. He did
not anticipate that the Bill would be received in Ire-
land as a very great concession. Half the benefits
given by the Reform Bill were to be taken away.
The Noble Lord confessed that two-thirds of the
electors would be deprived of the franchise, and these,
it must be remembered, were the most popular class
of voters ; and for this franchise he proposed to sub-
stitute what he could not but designate as a Chandos
clause He thought some of the alterations proposed
by the Noble Lord would have the effect of producing
greater purity in the exercise of the franchise in
Ireland.

Mr. HUME was glad the present Bill had been
introduced, because the determination had been broken
through which, for a time, seemed to prevail on both
sides of the House, that the Reform Bill must be final.
The question was, would this measure satisfy the
people of Ireland—would it remove that unfortunate
desire for separation from this country so universally
prevalent there ? He feared not ; and more, he
thought it ought not to satisfy them. At present
there were only 60,000 voters for 8,000,000 people.
The Noble Lord proposed to add 30,000 to them,
making a total of 90,000—not more voters than one
English county contained—not more than the West
Riding of Yorkshire contained. With respect to the
Irish boroughs, they had at present but a constituency
of 31,000, and the Noble Lord did not propose to
add to that number. He admitted that the principle of
simplifying the electoral franchise contained in the
Noble Lord's Bill was an improvement. The fran-
chise must be greatly extended in Ireland in order to
afford satisfaction to the people of that country. Every
individual who contributed to pay the taxes ought to
have a vote at elections. The Irish franchise ought
at all events to be assimilated to the English as much
as possible, in order to give the people a confidence in
the Imperial Parliament, and to enable the Govern-
ment to remove some of those troops which now gar-
risoned the country. He had no doubt that the pre •
sent measure would be held forth to the Irish people
as a fresh insult.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," from Sir
R. Peel.) He understood the Right Hon. Baronet,
and begged leave to tell him that, in his (Mr. Hume's)
opinion, it was a fresh insult, and deserved to be cha-
racterised as such ; and if the Right Hon Baronet
himself were an Irishman he would look upon it in
no other light. There might be some salutary pro-
visions in the proposed Bill ; it might be considered as
something in the way of concession ; but, on the whole,
it was rather calculated to make the Irish people dis-
satisfied.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. GORE, though an English Member, could
mot refrain from expressing his entire concurrence in
the principles embodied in the Bill of the Noble
Lord, and felt confident the measure must give the
greatest satisfaction to the Irish people.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said he should not do
justice to his own feelings if he did not enter his
protest against the Bill of the Noble Lord. It extended a
portion of the Reform Bill—the Chandos clause—
which, though he had been nine years in that House, he
never heard any Hon. Member say a good word of.
He objected to the increased pbwer the Bill conferred
on the landlords, who already possessed a great deal.
The increase of 30,000 in the county voters would
not much more than counterbalance the diminution
which would take place from 'causes which were
every day at work—such as the reduced prices of
corn, and the high rents of land taken at a period when
their produce was of much greater value. In the
present state of agriculture the stringent enforcement
of the test of value would have a most injurious effect
on the franchise.—(Hear, hear.) He thought the
fears of the Hon. Member for Montrose that the Bill
would not be well received in Ireland were well
grounded. It was acknowledged to be a
great desideratum to remove the present state
of uncertainty that prevailed between the
landlord and tenant but the presen£ Bill was
every way calculated to promote that uncertainty.
There was a positive inducement in the Bill to land-
lords to preserve a state of uncertainty, and he feared
that the Bill would have the effect of perpetuating
and embittering those unfortunate differences between
landlord and tenant, which had been the source of so
much crime and discontent. The regulations regard-
ing polling in counties much needed alteration. In
an English polling-booth 100 votes would be polled
in an hour by a single clerk, whereas in Ireland the
same number in a day was considered a great deal.
He would not oppose the introduction of the Bill, but
he could not for a moment think that any registration
measure could be satisfactory which imposed a higher
rate of' qualification on the poorer than on the richer
people.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WYSE had been pleased with the manner in
which the Noble Lord introduced his Bill, and would
not dissent from any of the praises which had been
bestowed on the measure by Hon. Members on that
side of the House. With regard to the right of voting
derivable from freeholds, he entirely concurred with
the observations which had been made on both sides
of the House. He thought the great point was to es-
tablish proprietorship, for a small proprietor was very
often more independent than a large leaseholder. He
regretted that the amount had not been fixed at a
lower value than 51. He believed that if the Govern-
ment had adopted the 40s. freehold if would not have
been abused now as it formerly was. He hoped the
Noble Lord therefore would see the propriety of
lowering the qualification. With regard to the muni-
cipal improvements which the Noble Lord suggested,
he (Mr Wyse) was glad the Noble Lord recognised
the same necessity for an extension of the franchise
in towns as in the case of counties. He (Mr. Wyse)
repeated that he was glad that this Bill had been in-
troduced as it had elicited from the Right Hon.
Baronet and the Noble Lord, the expression of prin-
ciples which he hoped the Government would be pre-
pared to carry fully into operation.
Sir R. PEEL said there were one or two
points
which he wished to explain. He had said that in
some towns in Ireland it was impossible to apply the
English principle, namely, to give the right of the
municipal franchise after occupation for two years,
and the payment of all rates and taxes. He hadsince
been informed that it was possible to apply this prin-
ciple to all the towns in Ireland, and therefore he
proposed to substitute that provision at once. The
Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) had expressed an ap-
prehension that the assimilation of the stamp duties
would have the effect of increasing the charges of
conveyance. Now, the reverse was the fact. Before
the assimilation of the duties, the stamp duty on a
conveyance of property up to the value of 1001. was
1/., but now it was reduced to 10s.
Lord ELIOT did not mean to discuss at any
length the occupatimn clause, but he would just allude
to an observation which had fallen from the Noble
Lord respecting
it. The Noble Lord said that in
point of fact it was a Chandos clause. This was not
ao, for by the Chandos clause the qualification con-
sisted of the payment of a certain amount of rent to
the landlord, while the proposed occupation clause in
the present Bill made the qualification to depend upon
the tenant being rated to the poor. He did not think