The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-14 00:00:00

Clontarf were 'of a far worse character.—(Hear.) At
Clontarf n
,at only were those attending to be marshalled, but
they were to be marshalled in military array—and those who
attended . on horseback were to be forme I into troops, each one
with `it it officers at its head.—(Loud cries of Hear, hear. )
It was true that after these first arrangements had been pro-
raul,gated from the Corn Exchange, they were withdrawn—
iced Mr. O'Connell had repudiated them.—(Hear, hear. )
Another order of proceedings was issued, in which " group"
was substituted for troop," and " wards" for " wardens."
Then it was that the chain of evidence desired by the Govern-
ment was perfected—then it was that they knew the time had
arrived when, with sureness and safety, they might pro-
cced.—(Loud cheers.) They bad then evidence, and evi-
dence enough, of seditious words and seditious inten-
tions to complete a charge of conspiracy. And
when the time had arrived at which they knew they could
safely proceed, they had had time to bring to bear such a force
as might enable the Government to vindicate the law, and put
down that vile agitation and conspiracy, without shedding one
drop of blood.—(Loud cheers.)Th Now, with respect to the
latenessof the proclamation. e first notice given of the in-
tended meeting at Clontarf was on the 28th of September,
and at that time the Law Officers in Ireland thought the time
for action was come. On the 30th appeared the proclamation
of which be spoke. As soon as it was issued, it was sent over
by post, reaching London on Sunday, the Ist of October.
Lord De Grey was at that time in England on account of bad
health. He was in the neighbourhood of London, and was
immediately sent for to town. He arrived, and a consultation
took place of all those Ministers who, being in or near
London, could be get together. They determined to place
the whole proceedings of the Attorney-General of Ire)-nd
before the Attorney-General for England. That learned func •
tionary took exactly the same view as the law officers for Ire-
land, and Lord De Grey at once quitted London for Dublin.
In eonsequence, however, of the alteration in the wording of
the order for the proceedings at Clontarf, to which ne had
already referred, it became a matter for consideration whether
some alteration would not be thus necessitated in the proclama-
tien. On Friday all proceedings were determined on and
adopted, by which an end was to be put to the meetings, and
prosecutions commenced against the chief conspirators. It
was necessary to proceed very guardedly, in order that they
might do so safely and effectively. The moment the procla-
mation was issued persons were sent into every part of the city
of Dublin to give circulation to, and information of it ; and
for thirty miles round Dublin, persons were sent on
horseback, in every road and direction, to warn the
country people of the intentions of the Government.
They also took care that they should have a competent force
en the spot, and the meeting was prevented without a single
accident. Before he proceeded to the trials, he must say a few
words of the Attorney-General. He had no acquaintance
with him ; before he was appointed he had not seen him—he
had not even heard of him.—( A laugh.) It was his ignorance
of Ireland and the Irish bar ; but when he was appointed
they heard, even from their political opponents, the highest
praise of him—that they had chosen the best man they could
have taken for the office. The dismissal of the magistrates was
not put by the Chancellor entirely upon the question of re-
peal ; but on the declaration of the Ministers in this House.
They were fairly answered, and though it had been said that
they might not read the newspapers, he thought that such
agitators were not likely to refrein from doing so. He then
came to the trials, and he defied the Noble Loreto lay his fin-
ger upon one part of the transaction that betrayed a disregard
of justice. With respect to the construction of the panel, it was
the traversers who objected to it; they objected to the old
one, because they thought it unfavourable to them. It had to
besciade out by the'Recorder ; there might be great negligence
on his part, but the Government had nothing to do with
it. It was true some of the slips were lost, but in whose charge
were they ? In that of Mr. Magrath, and, he happened not to
be a partisan of the Government, but a Catholic. He then
came to the choice of the special jury. He apprehended that
the right of challenging the jury was given to the Crown for
tke purpose of enabling the Crown to strike off such persons as
they might think unqualified or unduly bia sod. Now, they
had it on the affidavits of the traversers themselves, that two of
the twelve struck out were Protestants, ten were Catholics.
Of these, one was a Mr. Henrick, and it so happened that,
when Mr. Kemmis struck him off, he was under the impression
that he was a Protestant. Another was a Mr. Michael Dunn,
he belonged to St. Patrick's parish, and St. Patrick's parish
was fruitful in Michael Dunn's ; there were no less that four,
and it was believed that this one was biassed. He denied al-
together that the striking off of the names arose from any
feeling that the Catholics were not to be believed
on their oaths, but because it was supposed that
persons who had already declared themselves on one side were
not to be placed on the jury. He hoped they should hear no
more of their having a packed jury, since all their object was to
secare to the accused a fair trial before God and their country.
So much for the trials upon which the Noble Marquis had
founded almost all his attacks on the Government. They
stood upon their defence here, and he said that this trial was
conducted with as much fairness as any trial was ever con-
ducted. They had done nothing unfair to procure a con-
viction, and the jury had only done their duty in returning their
verdict against the prisoners. He would leave it to the judg-
ment of the people of England, who, though they did
not actually hear what was passing in that House,
were made acquainted with it in a very short
time. He would leave it to the people of England to say
whether they were not acquitted upon this point. One word
of Mr. Smith, the Attorney-General. He lamented that he
should hive placed himself in a position in which he could be
justly accused of indiscretion ; but he would leave it to their
Lordships whether there was not a point beyond which provocation
could not be borne, and whether this gentleman was not sub-
jected to it ? And now, all this having passed, the majesty of
the law having been vindicated, let them look forward and see
what could be done in the way of improvement.—
(Loud cheers.) With respect to the system of letting
land in Ireland, there was a necessity for inquiry; it
would be desirable that in letting land, the landlord should do
justice to the tenant. The next great question as to Ireland
was that of the registration. With respect to counties, a new
consideration of what was considered the beneficial interest,
would probably lead to a diminution of the number of voters
in counties. With respect to the towns, what the Government
intended to do was this : at present it was necessary, in order
to be able to vote, that the voter should have paid the poor-
rates, the taxes, the borough-rates, and some other rates.
They proposed to remove this restriction, and to enable the
person to vote if he had paid only the taxes and poor-rate.
With respect to the question of national education, it was con-
templated to take measures for the better education of masters
and mistresses, and also for the better visitation of schools.
The next question to which they meant to direct their attention
was to alter the existing law so as to enable money to be lodged
in trust, to be applied to the purchase of houses and glebes for
the Roman Catholic clergy, so that if a person wished to make
an endowment of lands to a certain priest officiating in a cer-
tain chapel, he might be enabled to do so. This led him to
the question of religious equality—putting the Roman Catholics
of Ireland on a complete footing of equality with the members
of the Established Church. Now at the time of the Act of
Union, the Established Church was acknowledged by that
great instrument, and this country was therefore bound
to support that arrangement, It was also acknow-
ledged, at the time of the passing of the Emancipation Act,
and the present Government were not prepared to take any
steps that might endanger the Established Church. They
would afford every facility to the Roman Catholics, consistent
with the maintenance of the Establishment ; but with respect to
producing as equality, how, he asked, was it to be effected ?
The Noble Lord then referred to the various modes which
had been pointed out of producing that result, and stated that
the present Government could not give its countenance to
any of them. There was one subject which he had almost
forgotten, it was that of Dean Holt Waring. His Noble
Friend had spoken of that person as having gone to attend
a meeting surrounded by a great crowd—a description which
would apply well to the manner in which the Romish (and he
did not use that term in an offensive way) clergy went to the
tepee' meetings at the head of their parishioners. But if Mr.
Waring did act in that manner, on the occasion of a meeting
in favour of the Legislative Union, why, all he could say was
that he had acted improperly. Another accusation against the
present Government was that the majority of the Irish
people were not well disposed to the present Government. He
admitted it. But England and Scotland, which constituted
the majority, supported them, and they did not rule by a
minority. They had done their utmost to gain their favour ;
but they (the Irish people) did not like them, and would not
support them. He was glad that his Noble Friend had
brought forward his motion, as it gave him an opportunity of
stating the views of the Government. They were the Minis-
ters of the Crown, and it was their duty to maintain inviolate
the union between the two countries, to preserve the authority
of the Throne, and they were determined to support her Ma-
jesty in her resolution to preserve the supremacy of thel aw.
After a few words from the Marquis of NORMANBY in
explanation,
Tile t tarquis of CLAN RICA RDE said that there was
much in the tone of the Noble Lord (Wharncliffe), with
whom he was highly gratified, but he regretted extremely that
he could not go further, and agree with the greater portion of
what the Noble Lord had said. He was pleased with the tone
of the Noble Lord's remarks, but he could not forget that a
similar tone had been often observed before, and that the deeds
that followed were by no means consistent with the words.
With respect to some of the appointments of the present Go-
vernment in Ireland, the Noble Lord said thet he had never
heard of them.
• Lord WHARNCLIFFE—I said I had not heard of Mr.
Smith, as I did not frequent the law courts.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE—The Noble Lord might
have frequented the law courts without hearing of Mr. Smith.
But be must say the Noble Lord had made a most inefficient
answer to the charges brought forward by his Noble Friend
(the Marquis of Normanby ). The policy of the pre-
sent Government was to exclude Catholics, and there •
fore the Irish, from a perfect equality with the rest
of the inhabitants of the empire. If these meetings
had been illegal, he thought that it was foreign from
the spirit and principles of the British Constitution to
allow them in the first instance to be holden without
reproof, and then to pounce upon the holders of them without
any previous notice or intention. He certainty thought that
the jury had found a conscientious verdict. Although he felt
perfectly convinced that the jury returned an honest verdict,
yet he should say that he was sure some of those gentlemen oho
were indicted for a conspiracy had not the slightest notion that
they were guilty of it; and he was sure that this was
the opinion of the great majority of the people of that
country. He should next allude to the celebrated
Clontarf proclamation, and he considered that to be,
in the manner in which it was issued, most unjustifiable.
If the Government could not have issued it at an earlier date
than the day before the meeting was appointed to be held, he
thought it would be much more becoming of a Christian Go-
vernment to have allowed one meeting more to be added to the
number which they had previously permitted.—( Hear. )
If her Majesty's Ministers were determined conscientiously to
uphold the present system of national education in Ireland
they ought to appoint to Church preferments those persons
who would act in harmony with such a system of national edu-
cation. But he thought it was evident, by recent appoint-
ments to Church preferment, that those who were thus
lately appointed were the very persons most opposed to the
system—persons distinguished by their hostility to national
education, as at present administered. As long as Government
gave their patronage thus, he (Lord Clanr d
that the system of national education in Ireland
lear ec)u riasnot be sure
properly carried out. With respect to
Noble
ee Leond(lordand
same
eb on
timeh adt n
it
eo Tenant Commission, it was stated by a N
injustice should be done to the landlord ; at the
should be remembered that no injustice ought to
to the tenant.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord referred
to the relative position of landlord and tenant in England.
It gas said that the proportion of rent from the soil in
land was one-third of the produce, and in Ireland two-thirclgs.
.
Now he (Lord Clanricarde) would engage to show that there
were tenants in Ireland, not one here and there, but many,
very many, and of a class, too, not holding beneficial leases, who
had made considerable sums of money, paying cheerfully and
comfortably to their landlords the rent agreed upon. He did
not allude to farmers having their hundreds of acres, but to
cotters renting thirty, twenty, and even twelve acres of land.
Now e hen. he knew these facts from his own experience, he,
for one, neither would join the outcry raised against the land-
lords of Ireland, nor permit that outcry to go uncontradicted.
Why, had the landlords of Ireland no higher motive—were
they actuated by no nobler feelings—their own interest would
binder them from pursuing any course that might be of in.
jurious tendency to their tenantry. Therefore, be did say
that the Landlord and Tenant Commission, having been
issued at a time when great crimes had been committed in Ire-
land, those crimes being in eonnexion with the holding of land,
that such was a most rash proceeding on the part of the Go.
velment, subjecting the landlords of Ireland—as it did—.to