The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-08 00:00:00

FINANCIAL REFORM.

Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from Liverpool,
signed by 30,000 persons, in favour cf the principles
of financial reform. Ile complained cf the manner
to which the expenditure of the country was submittrd,
to the Legislature, so different from the method ?f
other constitutional countries; because when the esti-
mates were brought forward in the House, any
material alteration w hich might be made in them
was taken as a vote of want of confidence. The man-
ner in which be had brought his forward was not with any
such view, but it was simply to ask the House to come to
a resolution embodying a return to the taxation of 1835.
This course was not a new one-1792 had been the
s'andard the Whigs had quoted and wished to return to
for a quarter of a century. He should ask the Government
to show reasons why they would not sanction a gradual
return to the standard if 1535. With the permission
of the Hou-o he would read a few figures showing the
relative difference of expenditure in the years
1836 and 1850: —ln the year ending the sth
of January, 1836, the interest cf the national
debt funded and unfunded was 28,514,0001.; in the year
ending the sth January, 1850, it was 28,323,000/.;
the army expenses were in the first-named year
6,460,0001., in the latter year 6,549,0001.; the navy ex-
pellees 4,99,000/. and 6,942,0001, respectively. The ex-
peaces of the Ordnance deportment iu the first year
amounted to 1,151,0001. in the last year to 2,323,000/.,
and the civtl expenditure 4,225,000/., and 6,732,000/.
for the respective years. When he brought forv.ard
his financial statement last year he had stated that
the excess of expenditure during the preceding
year over that cf 1835 was upwards of 10,000,000/.
According to the estimates he found that the relative
amounts of expenditure, in 1849 and 1835, was
53 550,000/. against 44,295,0001. He was not stating
the matter from the estimates of the present year,
but from last year ; and by that it sppeared
that the excess of expenditure of 1850 over 1835,
was 6,453,0001. But taking the estimates of the ensuing
year, he thought that a million further at least would be
saved, making the total difference 5,500,0001. Well,
that was encouraging, but it only showed that
however desirous the Ministry might be of econo-
mising there was such a pressure from with-
out, such an urgency from the set eral profes-
sional departments of the state that unless the Govern-
ment were backed by a stern determinrtion of that
House they would never be able to accomplish that
which they very possibly desired.—(Hear, hear). How
then was he to effect that saving, He would now show
It was to be understood that he had to deal with an ex-
cess of 63 millions. He proposed, in the first place, to
reduce the army and navy and ordnance estimates
by 5,820,000/. The remaining 630,000/. he intended to
take from the civil expenditure, and from the expense
of managing the office of Woods and Forests, which
he suggested should be placed under better management.
He thought that the Hon. Gentletra,n would agree with
him that these were things which ought not to be re-
pea%ed. (Hear, hear.) If they east their
eyes over this long list they would find many
Wings which would not have been allowed in
this day, and which never could be repeated.—(Hear,
hear.) But still they required a strict supervision by
this House.—(Hear, hear.) In looking over those
many items, and considering the cases of many
cf the parties receiving pensions, he found
that it was not unreasonable to expect that a very con-
siderable saving would accrue to the state every year.—
(Hear.) He next came to salaries and allowances, and in
alluding to that portion of the subject he might observe
that Hon. Gentlemen opposite would agree with him
us first noticing the large sum expended for the support
of a number of Commissioners.—(Hear, hear.) These
might be much better condensed under one well paid
and able CommiSsjoner. They would have their work
better done and cheaper done by one man than twelve.
It was an ohservation and not, a a bad pun, that a board
was sometimes a good screen.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

BANK OF ENGLAND.
(From this night's Gazette.)
An Account, pursuant to the Act 7th and Bth of Victoria, cap. 32, fer
the Week ending on Saturday, the 2d day of .3lareli, 1850.
issue DEPAILT3IENT.

Notes i55ued........ 30,37g,160

Government debt .. 11,015,100
Other securities .... 2,084,900
Gold coin and bullion 19,099,0!13
Silver bullion ...... 2;7,077

£30,376,160

30,376,160
d. MARSHALL, Chief Cashier.
50.
CYAZTIEEN T.

Dated the 7th day of March, 18

BANKING D
X.
PrOprietOreCapital.. 14,553,000
Rest .. . • ...... 3,592,934
Public deposits (in-
eluding Exchequer,
Commissioners of
National Debt, Say-
ings-banks, and Dl-
vidend accounts) .. 7,839,208
Other deposits • • 9,881,899
Seven day and other
bills •• .. 1,096,306

,Government Recur!.

ties (including Dead
Weight Annuity) .. 14,419,752
Other securities .... 10,425,030
Notes .............. 11,367,885
Gold and silver coin.. 749,700

£3G,9G2,347

X3c,962,347
M MARSHALL, Chief Cashier.

Dated the 7th day of March,

C OURSE OF EXCH.

Anster.tam 12 2%
Dit'-o, at sight ...... 12 1
Rotterda:n 12 2%
Antwerp 25 75
Harnburgh ......M.B. 13 13%
Paris, 3 days'bight 25 50
Ditto, 3 months .... 25 70
ttlarsoillea ............ 25 70
80urdeanx......... . 25 70
Frankfort on _Maine.... 121%
Voter sburgh, SB. Ebbe.. 37%
Vienna, °flee. 11 45
Trieste, ditto.... • ... .. 11 47
51adxid 49%
Cadiz 4gh
liareeloza

INGE.-(THIS DAY.)
Gibraltar— •• •• •• •• •• ••
Leghorn ••.. • . 30 35
Genoa .. • • • • • • .• • • •• 26
Allan .. • •••••• .•• •• ••
Venice• • .• • . • • • • .• • • • •
gaples • • 41
Palermo, per0z........ 1221 i
Messina 122
Lisbon.. • • .......... 33%
Oporto • • 53%
Rio Janeiro • • ...... • •
Buenos Ayres —
New York, 21 claya'sight
Philadelphia ....

PRICES OF BULLION, PER oz.
'Foreign Gold in bars.. 43 17 9
Portugal Gold Coin .. 0 0 0
Spanish Doubloons .. 0 0 0
New Dollars ...... 0 4 10%
Silver in bars ........ 0 4 11%

WHITBY, MARCH 7.—lt
Sunderland, and not the
land, that got on the ro
and proceeded.

was the Fanny, of and from
Fanny schooner, of Sunder-
)ck yesterday, but came off

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 7.
PARTY PROCESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
(Continued from our Fourth Edition of last night.)
Lord BROUGHAM suggested that his Noble Friends
opposite should reconsider the wording of the Bill, for
the purpose of making it uniform throughout.
The Earl cf ELLENBOROUG II gave notice that
upon the third reading he would move an amendment
on the second clause, which would give magistrates the
same discretion.with regard to attending the meetings,
as they would have in publishing the proclamation.
The report was then received, and the third reading
fixed for to-morrow (this day).
SUNDAY TRADING BILL.
The Earl of HARROWBY, on moving the second
reading cf the Sunday T, siding Bill, said h. would not
enter into any statement on the subject, as it would be
proposed to send the Bill to a Committee up-stairs.
The Bill was then read a second time, and their Lord-
ships adjournel.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 7.
KILUUSH UNION.
(Continued from our Fourth Edition of, last night.)

Aiter some further observations from Mr. SO-ILOPE,
Mr. A. STAFFORD seconded the motion.

Sir W. SOMERVILLE said, in replying to the Hon.
Gentleman who had just sat down, it would not be pos-
sible for him to allude to every particular he had brought
forward. - The Hon. Gentleman had had before him the
long correspondence which had taken place on this sub-
ject contained iu the various blue-books, and had gone
into details on the different topics suggested by these, so
that it was impossible, not knowing the particular points
the lion. Gentleman was to dilate upon, that he could
answer specifically every point to which he had alluded,
The correspondence contained in those blue-books
had been long under the consideration of the House, and
from it could be traced the unfortunate position in which
the Kilrush union was situated. No one could read
that correspondence without feelings of regret and pain.
while at the same time it must be clear to those who
studied it that the situation of that union before the
famine was not at all satisfactory, so the; as au unavoid-
able consequence that famine fell with increased and
desperate severity on that union. What Government
hud had to do during and since the famine, was to re-
lieve that distress so far us they were able. As to the
distress which prevailed, be knew nothing more pain-
ful than ninny of Captain lieanedy's reports, and ha
might say,‘ in passing-, that he thought the compliment
the Hun. Gentleman had paid to that gallant officer,
was well and fully merited .—(Hear, hear.) Theie
could therefore, be no doubt that those reports were
painful, not only, however, as detailing the misery which
existed in the union, but also as detailing the low state
of morals among the people resident in the union; the
frauds they had recourse to for the purpose of extorting
relief, and many other matters which he thought unfit
to be recapitulated in that House. There were, therefore,
many elements at work, all tending to augmeet the dis-
tress; and prominent amongst these were the amount of
evictions which had taken place in the union; and it was
the very fact of those evictions taking place which in-
duced the Government in 1848.te pass the Act for the
protection and relief of the destitute poor evicted from
their dwellings in Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman was
therefore wrong, when he accused the Government of
doing nothing to shield the poor from the effects of those
evictions. That Act might have failed in accomplish-
ing all that it was desirable it should have done, but it
was adopted with the full intention of protecting the
poor, and to a considerable extent it did so. The lion.
Gentleman had said those evictions were carried on
under the eye of the Government ; that Government
stood calmly by and saw them carried out, and the poor
driven helpless an-Z homeless upon the world, but the
Act he had named refuted that statement; and ho would
ask the House would it have been right or proper for the
Government to have stepped in, and prevented those
who owned the soil taking possession of it from those
who persisted in occupying it without paying any rent ?
—(hear, hear.) He hoped he would not give utterance
to a single word that would give the least encourage-
ment to such a system of evictions, but he thought it un-
fair ou the Hon. Gentleman to charge the Government
with indifference in not stepping in and adopting mea-
sures, which he was sure the Hon. Gentleman himself
would not be prepared to sanction. As to what occur-
red in the Kilrush "Union during the autumn of last

year, the Poor-law Commissioners considered that

the elected oi guarcLaus Lad not used the dill
gence they ought to have done in the collection of

their rates, and they accordingly declined to afford
thorn any relief from the treasury. If they had
done so, he thought, from the general tenour of the
Honourable Gentleman's speech, that ho would have
been dissatisfied with their conduct, but in consequence
of tint re fesel, the responsibility was thrown on the
elected board of guardians, and the first stoppage of re-
lief detailed by the Hon. Gentleman had taken place;
Rs to the second stoppage of relief in January last, the
Poor-law Commissioners considered that the board of
guardians., in causing it, had been guilty of an error in
judgment rather than any desire on their part to deprive
the poor of relief, and they, therefore, did not think it
requisite to go to extreme measures with them. The
Hoe. Gentleman had concluded by moving for the ap-
pointment efe. special commission on the subject. Now,
he did not see to what practical benefit that would lead.
Its duties could not be confined to the Kilrush union
alone, but they must extend its operations to the other
distressed unions; and certainly when he considered the
nurnerees reports of commissions, and inspectors, and
boards of guardians, which had been laid upon the table
of tie House in respect of the condition of those, he did
not think that much additional information could be got
by appointing such a commission as that moved for. It
would, in his opinion, give rise to hopes which never
could be realised, and do away with that feeling of
self-reliance among the people, without which they
could never expect to see them attain any thing like
prosperity. He would not say that any great ameliora-
tion in the condition of the Kilrush union had taken
place, but this he would say, that the rates in that union
were, now in steady course of collection; that the
guardians of the poor were fully alive to their duty, and
exerting themselves cordially and earnestly in the per-
formance of it. The rate collected in the union for the
week ending the 29th of December last amounted to
732'., and had since been going on more or less increas-
ing. For the two months ending January last the
amount collected amounted to 4,6561., so that as far as
the collection of the rate was concerned matters were in
a satisfactory state, and there was, besides no lack of
funds in the hands of the guardians for enabling them to
afford relief. There bad been from time to time large ad-
vances n tide to the Kilrush union from the Treasury.
During the two years ending the 29th of September hst,
23,0001. had been advanced to that union, and since the
29th September 5001. had bcen advanced to the union to
enable the guardians to erect an addition to the work-
house, which addition had been erected, and was capa-
ble of affording additional accommodation to 575 indi-
viduals. Independent of all this there was still admi-
nistered a large amount of out-door relief, for he found
that during the week ending the 23d of February last,
there were 12,470 persons on the out-door relief list.
In the whole of Ireland, on the 9th of February last
there were 140,000 individuals in the receipt of out-
door relief ; of these 15,000 belonged to the unions in
the province of Connaught, and 35 to' the Kilrush union
and the other unions in Clare. So far, then, as rates
and workhouse accommodation was concerned matters
were satisfactory, as regarded the Kilrush union, while
at the same time there was an anxious desire evinced
on the part of the guardians to do their duty.
Ho 1. elieved no practical result would follow
if the naction were granted, and do not let
them adopt a course which may be of no pos-
sible advantage whatever. He could assure his
Hon. Friend that the Poor-law Commissioners had
been watching, and would watch, the proceedings cf the
Kilrush union very carefully, and the guardians who
administered its affairs. They had already an able of
ficer on the spot in the person of Captain Kennedy, and
if they were able to discover that they did not do their
duty, such steps should be taken as the necessities cf the
union demanded.

Mr. MON SELL said that from the latest accounts he
had received the Kilrush union was getting worse instead
of better, and unless the Government did something at
Once the state of the population will be dreadful indeed.
The assistant barrister of the court (Mr. Major,) in hold-
ing quarter sessions in 'rush, some few days since,
said that he never witnessed such patient agony of
sufferings, which were beyond human endurance. Did
his Right Honourable Friend the Chief Secretary for
Ireland, know that the poor in that-union were often
compelled to come 16 and 20 miles for relief, and after-
wards allowed to go home without even having their
claims investigated or receiving a single meal? What
amelioration, therefore, can have occurred in the con-
dition of the people And if the union itself be in
a better state, or the poor-rates lower, it was became
the people perished from sheer starvation. Surely if
such a system were to be carried on no poor•rate at
all would be necessary in a short time; but he appealed
to the House and to the Government, whether it was

right to improve the social condition of the people, or
of the union, over the graves of hundreds, and perhaps
thou: ands, of their fellow-creatures. He, himself, had

been over the union, though not connected with it, and
so much human misery as he raw it was impossible to
conceive. For miles and miles nothing could be seen
but a dreary waste; nothing to be witnessed like farms
or farmers, and only a few patches here and there culti-
vated. Let not the House imagine that the people in
that locality were not good labourers, for he had been
informed by Count Strelibekey that in the union of
Belmurry, which was, except Kilrush, the worst part of
Ireland, he bed seen 350 men employed, under the in-
spection cf au engineer from Plymouth, and anything like
the zeal and anxiety to perform their laborious duties
was never witnessed. The gentleman under whom they
were employed informed the Count that, when he went
into the locality, such was the miserable condition of the
labouring poor that he had to teed those 350 men for a
fortnight before they were able to go to work. Since then
nothing could be more praiseworthy than their con-
duct. He thought the ordinary operations of the law
ought to be suspended in that union, and the manage-
ment of it given to Mr. Twistleton, or Count Strelibekey,
and let them apply its resources to draining, emigration,
or the cultivation of the land, and charge that land
with the improvements so made, in order to give em-
ployment to the people. Something of that kind must
bo done, or the whole population would be swept away.
An Honourable Friend of his, a Member of that House,
had been at Kilrush, and witnessed evictions, by one or
two individuals, of the most heart-rending description.
A few days after being informed of what had occurred,
he (Mr. Monsen) visited the locality, and in a yard, not
half the size of the floor of that House, saw seven, eight,
and nine persons huddled in cubing, with no bed-clothes
to cover them at night, having no bed to lie ou but the
cold gronnd, and scarcely any clothing to cover them in
the day. Thor. poor creatures were exposed to such
an accumulation of misery that he solemnly declared he
thought one description sufficient to kill them. Fever
raged in one or two of those cabins or sheds, and altogether
it was impossible to witness without horror such a state of
suffering in a Christian land. Surely neither the Govern-
ment nor the House would allow such a state of things to
go on; and most certainly if some person was not sent
down there, armed by law with abitrary and dictatorial
powers for a season, and apply the labour in the district
to the cultivation of the land, which was a perfect waste,
the most fearful consequences must ensue.—(Hear, hear)
By doing that all would bo benefittad; they would not
havo to be taxed in this country for advances made; the
land w ould be improved and the people saved from death.
He entreated the Government not to disregard the pro-
positions ho had suggested, and if a commission
were allowed to down there to collect informa-
tion, as proposed by the motion of the Honourable
Member for Stroud, it would not place the Govern-
ment in a worse position than it was at the pr-
sent moment. He believed the Right Honourable
Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, could not deny
that under the existing state of things in Kilrush thou-
sands of lives must he sacrificed if some remedy were not
proposed.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Hon. Gentle-
man who had jest sat down made a speech and de-
scribed scenes that occurred in Kilrush that did great
credit to his benevolent wishes to improve the condition
of the union; but when he (Lord J. Russell) considered
that the llon. Gentleman proposed what Parliament and
she Government should do, he owned it appeared to him
to be, if possible, a plan which would make the evil
greater. What, in fact, he suggested, was this; that
the people of Kilrush being in a miserable condi-
tion—that the landlords appearing to have grossly neg-
lected their duties, in ejecting and evicting the wretched
tenants who had hitherto lived on means which no
longer existed—that farmers being there without skill or
capital to improve or cultivate the land, and were really
but "scratching" the ground, as the Hon. Gentleman
said, to secure a crop—that either through inability, or
the fault of the poor-law guardians, they cannot obtain
the smallest subsistence, and under these circumstances
he proposed a plan for an alteration in a condition of
things which ought not to be allowed to exist. What
he proposed, then, was, that the State should step in
and take the management of affairs into their hands
which was usually done by individuals; that in the
first place they should furnish all the necessary seeds for
sowing, and the agricultural implements to sat the far-
mers to work; that they should advance the wages to
enable men to cultivate the land properly, and having
done all that, and gone to a vast expense, no doubt
with the immediate benefits of producing good crops,
and employing great numbers of the people, now living
in a miserable way, the proprietors should afterwards
come in, and enjoy the benefit of their lands, being im-
proved at such an expense, and the rents of persons,
who had so grossly neglected their duties, increased by
the state.
Mr. MONSELL begged to explain that his plan was
totally the reverse of what the Noble Lord stated. What
he suggested was, that funds should be raised from the
electoral divisions of the unions, and the amount ex-
pended on the land itself, so far as to give employment
to the people. If the rates so assessed were not paid,
part of his suggestion was that the land should be sold.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL contended that that plan
would not meet the evil as the lion. Gentleman pro-
posed. At present, as the House was aware, it was one
of those unions where rates sufficient to meet the wants
of the people, or for their common sustenance, had not
been raised, and surely it was quite impossible that an
additional rate could be levied for the purpose mentioned
by the Hon. Gentleman. It was, in fact, the state un-
dertaking to farm the land—to do that which private in-
dividuals ought to do—and thereby incurring an in-
creased responsibility, which no state ought to incur.
He (Lord John Russell) had seen very lately some
letters from a gentleman who travelled in the worst parts
of the west and south of Ireland, in which he stated that
a spirit and exertion were evinced, and a determination
to employ the people in the cultivating and sowing the
crepe, highly encouraging, and which gave him very
groat hope of the future improvement of the country.
It was also curious enough that he alluded in these"
letters to a statement of his (Lord John Russsell's) in
that House, in which he alleged that many parts of Ire-
land were rapidly improving, a statement which he sags
he deemed exaggerated when he read it, but was now
convinced, frost what passed under bis own eye, that it
was just and accurate. But if that House were to say,
here was a union in which persons grossly negleet:d to