The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-13 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, July 12.
Their Lordships mot at F.v.. o'clock.
CONFERENCE.
Certain Peers were appointed, of whom the Marquis
of WESTMEA.TH was one, to manage a conference
with the Commons on the Naval Prizl Balance Bill.
The Noble Marquis, on the return of the Noble Lords,
laid on the table a paper containing the reasons of the
Commons for dissenting from the Lords' amendments.
COURT OF CHANCERY BILL.

---
Lord LANGDALE introduced this Bill, which was
read a first time.
__

METROPOLITAN INTERMENTS BILL.

Theitrr of CARLISLE moved the third reading of
this Blil.

Lord REDESDALE moved a proviso to afford pro-
teetion to persons entitled to the inheritance of land
which may be sold for cemetery purposes under this Act,
and to prevent the sale, under certain circumstances, of
entailed land and family mansions.
The Earl of CARLISLE opposed the proviso, as it
would be injurious and obstructive to the working of the
Bill. He wished t ) disahwe the House of the notion
that there was any f,,regone conclusion as to the pro-
perty to he taken f tr the purpoe of a ceme.ory.
Lord MONTE AG LE supported the proviso.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII considered this Bill
as of more importance than any railway Bill that had
ever passed, as it concerned the health of three millions
of people. Ho th)ught parks the best of all places
that could be taken for cemeteries, because there were
no houses there empt the family mansion. He therefore
opposed the proviso.
After a few words from Lord REDESDALE and the Earl
of CARLISLE, their Lordships divided, when there ap-
peered—
Contents (for the proviso) ... 24
Non-contents (against it) ... 42
Majority against the proviso ... —lB
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
RAILWAY ABANDONMENT BILL. _ _

On the order of the day for the consideration of the
Conamons' amendments to this Bill,
The Earl of GRANVILLE moved that the amend-
ments be agreed to. _ _

Lord RE-DESDALE opposed the motion.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and their Lord-
ships divided, when there appeared—
Contents ... 34
Non-contents 38
Majority against aveeing to the I
Commons' amendments ...
PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the third
reading of this Bill; and,
After a few remarks from Lord REDESDALE, the
motion was agreed to.

On the question that the Bill do pass,
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said, he had not
beard of a single petition being presented in favour of
this measure. It had been said that the constituency in
Ireland bad dwindled down; but he denied the fact,
though, no doubt, the number of registered voters had
dwindled away. The Si. franchise, proposed by the
Government, would have been neither more nor less
than a paiiper franchise; and, notwithstanding all that
had been said about the alteration male by their Lord-
ships to 131., be believed it would still be little better
than a pauper franchise.
The Bill was then passed,
COUNTY COURTS EXTENSION BILL.

Lord BEAUMONT moved that the House go into
Committee on this Bill.

Lord BROUGHAM said, he bad already given their
Lordships notice that he would propose certain amend-
ments in this Bill, those amendments being similar in
their nature to enactments which he bad embodied in
his Bill of 1833. These were to give parties the option
of going either before the 'ripener courts or the county
c ourts, in cases where the amount was between 201. and
5 0/.; also to give the po eers of appeal on points of law;
and to create in certain eves a concurrent jurisdiction
(the precise nature of which we did not hear). He
gave no opposition to the Bill, but he thought there was
every reason why this important measure—the most im-
portant that has come before their Lordships for many
years—should be sent before a Select Committee. It
was a most important measure, inasmuch as, though SOL
was named in the Bill, the average of all cases tried in
England, Scot! and, and Ireland, were for sums under
401. He had once shown their Lordships that for
the whole county palatine of Lancaster during
the spring ass;zee of one particular year, the
average in 188 cases was for sums either of
15/. 163., or 16/ 155., he could not now re-
member which; and, therefore, he held that it was im-
possible to over-estimate the importance of the measure.
He might instance also the extreme interest which was
felt on the subject throughout the entire country.
Never in all his Parlietnentary experience had so many
letters and petitions been entrusted to him on any sub-
ject, and from many different parties he had received
numereus sue,gestions and amendments which he was
repested to propose. Many of these referred to matters
of detail, and required careful consideration, first on ac-
count of their merit:, and secondly, in order that it
might be seen whether they did not interfere with other
parts of the Bill. He had therefore come to the resolu-
tion of suggesting that their Lordships should not pro-
ceed further the' day with the Bill, but should agree to
send it before a Select Cemraittee, where those clauses
of the Bill of 1833, which he proposed should be
adopted, might be takoa into full aed deliberate con-
sideration. He did not propose this Committee with
the slightest intention of delaying the measure ;
for if he found that t were was any intention of that kind,
he would at one i move that the Chairman report
progress; and he gave this notice to whoever might in-
tend to vote for delay in the Select Committee, that he
would be the first to meet that attempt at delay by
moving that the Chairman report progress, and then let
the flouin deal well the Bill in the best way it could.—
(Hear, hear.) That, he thought, would be a guarantee
to the public that this measure would not be delayed
longer than was absolutely necessary to its efficiency.
He was delighted to state to their Lordships (and he was
sure they would all rejoice at the intelligence) that his
Noble and Learned Friend Lord Lyndhurst was so far
recovered, after the late operation to which he had been
subjected, that he would be able t atten 1 in his place on
Monday or Tuesday next—(Hear)—when they would
have the value of his advice on that measure. He be-
lieved he might say his Noble and Learned Friend
approved of the measure, subject to certain modi
fications. His Noble and Learned Friend (Lord
Denmin) was unable from bad health to attend
in the House; but he was in communication
with him on this subject, and but fur the late
Post-office alterations he might be able to receive and
lay before their L Tdshipa on Monday next a full state-
ment of the doubts entertained by his Noble and Learned
Friend and the amendments he proposed. But, at all
events, on Ttiesd.sy he would be in possession of a corn-
mueicetiiin from him embracing a statement of his
views. He hoped they also have the attendance
of his Noble Friend (L r.l Wharncliff.), who last year
so ably and so industriously repreaerve the great mer-
cantile interest of the city of Lond )n on some most im-
portant matters. The Noble and Learned Lord then
proposed that the Bill should be sent to a Select Com-
mittee.

L trd WFINENCLIFFE thought, that if their Lord-
shipl were certain there was sufficient time, it would be
highly desirable to send the Bill before a Select Com-
mittee; but, unfortunately, at the present period of the
session, they could not he wi:hout d.luh,s on the sub-
ject. At the same time he did not see that it woul lbe
necessary to have a very pr.donged investigation, and on
the whole, ho thought that such a course was likely to
lead to an improvement of the measure.
Lord BE AU MON T, knowing. as he did that the Noble
and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) was a most sincere
supporter of the Bill, and also perceivin 2: that he, as well
as many of their Lordships, were anxious that the Bill
should go out in as perfect a form as possible, would be
very reluctant to decline sending it befot e a Select Com-
mittee. Hiit Noble and Learned Friend proposed three
important alterationa in the Bill. One of these was the
optional clause, to w hich he must say he had no objec-
tion, as be thought, if both parties agreed, they ought
to have the power of going betbre any court they chose.
The nest amendment was to give an appeal on points of
law, and this he also thought might be highly desirable.
But with regard to the third amendment, which related
to the concurrent jurisdiction, ho should regard it as a
death blow to the Bill. He should, in fact, consider it
as Equivalent to the total destruction of the measure;
and he hoped that the Noble and Learned Lord would
leave that clause to be considered after the Bill came
from the Select Committee.

Lord BROUGHAM said he had the concurrence
all the great law Lords in the proposals whichhehd
of
announced to the House. They were decidedly of aopi-
nion that the only condition on which they could sup-
port the Bill was the adoption of the amendment to which
the Noble Lord (Lord Beaumont) so strongly objected.
The Bill was then ordered to be sent to a Select Com-
mittee, Lord Beaumont consenting to the proposal on the
thorough understanding that it was not done for the pur-
pose of delay.
The Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill was read a
second time.
The Court of Chancery (Ireland) Bill went through
Committee.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a great number of
petitions in favour of an alteration in the law of
marriage.
Lord MOUN IVASIIELL presented a petition against
the system of national education in Ireland.
The Earl of lIARROWBY presented several petitions
against the licensing of beer-shops, and against the ad-
mission of Jews to Parliament.

The House adjourned shortly after Seven o'clock.

HO US E OF COMMONS, July 12.
MEDICAL CHARITIES BILL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Sir R. FERGUSON moved the insertion of the words
" one competent physician or surgeon," the effect of
which would be to have but one responsible paid medical
officer en the board.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE was understood to oppose the
amendment.
The House thee divided, when there appeared—.
~.itectolw ameudment ... •.. ... 18
-lAgaiiit ti k. 5 ts."o: ... .. ... 58
~.‘ • id*Tit]... -;. ... ... .. —4O
U The ommittee again. dOided on the question, whe-
ther the medical officer.a4ald.be of seven or ten years'
stand )3.g. ".The rumbp# were—
.vccieu yeelva-'4,ik;; ... ... ... 27
r-\,' ,Zr' seven yorg:•:/: ... ... ... 50
I.#•+ —23
Lo „NAAS ;unit a/proviso, that every act of the
tti
MulioaLtommiesioupss should bt deemed to be the act
of the Poor-law Commissioners.
hin SCULLY did not think the proviso necessary,
iztaan,(:•‘l2 an the Commission could not act without the
lignentioii Of the Chief g'oot-law C:gamissiguer.

After some discussion, the Committee divided, when
there appeured—
For the proviso
Against it

... 24
••• .••

••• 60
••• •••

Majority
The proviso wls consequently lost.
Colonel DUNNE still insiated that some words ought
to be introduced into the Bill, to throw the responsi-
bility of the Commis'ion upon the Poor-law Commis-
sion or some other authorities.
Sir WM. SOMERVILLE said the Government would
be responsible for the operation of the Bill.
Lord NAAS gave notice that, on the bringing up of
the report, he would take the sense of the House upon
the proviso which the Committee had negatived.
The clause was then agreed to, after which the House
resumed, when the Chairman obtained leave to sit again.

-36

entertains of the services rendered to the state by Sir
Robert Pe,l, desired me to inform Lady Peel that her
Majesty was anxious to bestow on her the same rank
as was bestowed on the widow of Mr. Canning.— '
(Cheers.) I received an answer from Lady Peel, which
I immediately consmunicated to her Majesty, and that
answer was, that it was her o•wn wish to bear no
other name than that by which Sir Robert Peel
was known.—(Hear, hear.) Lady Peel has intimated
that there is a special direction which has been left for
his family by Sir Robert Peel, that he desires that no
one of his family will accept any title or public reward
in respect of any services which he may be supposed to
have rendered.—(Loud cheers.) This is a stronger
reason why this House should desire that some testimo-
nial should remain by which this House at least may
testify its feeling with respect to an event so sudden, and
a calamity so great. I do not mean to enter into
any notice of the services of Sir Robert Peel, or of
the measures of which he was the mover. I
think it far better that I should refer to
the example which he lately gave in the Commission
which has been directed by her Majesty to consider the
mode in which the arts may be made to contribute to the
ornament of the House of Commons with rn.peet to the
sta•ues that are to be placed there. A committee
of that Commission, composed of persons belonging
to different creeds, have considered that the two men who
ought to have statues erected to their memory there
should be John Hampden and Lord Falkland.
I imagine that what these gentleman who
were on the Commission fit was that they
were both men, who, by their splendid talents,
and by their own virtues, adorned the age in which
they lived, and that however different their
rank, however various their talents, they were
only animated by the love of their country.—(Hear,
hear.) Let us not wait till a long period
has elapsed before we take occasion of doing honour to
the departed statesman ; let us do now what was not
done till two centuries after the time of Hamp-
den and Lord Falkland. What I propose to
do is to follow the precedent adopted in the
case of Lord Chatham. When he died Co onel Barr-6
moved that a public funeral should take place in
honour of his memory. A gentleman who was then in
office in the Administration, to which Lord Chatham
was at that time opposed, suggested that it would be
better to have a monument erected to his memory.
That suggestion was immediately assented to by the
House, and Lord North, then the Prime Minister, who
came into the House before the debate was closed, gave
to it his concurrence. It is, perhaps, a remarkable
thing with regard to that event, that Colonel
Barrio who made it had been himself at one
time opposed as strongly as any politician could be
to the opinions of Lord Chatham. It is another
remarkable circumstance that Colonel Barrio
was introduced to Lord Chatham, and made
some apology far the severe language he had applied
to him, when Lord Chatham said he himself had used
equally harsh language to Sir Robert Walpole,
and he (Lord Chatham) was far from resenting
any language which had been applied to him by Colonel
Barr•i. I think that the conduct of Col. Barrio showed
that on an occasion of this kind. we should rather en-
deavour to forget for the time that natural encounter
which the great interests of the country requires us at
other times to enter into, and that we should endeavour to
show, when we seek to bestow on the man who has
devoted his talents to the service of the country, that it is
not the time to consider his peculiar opinions or senti-
ments—(Hear, hear)—but rather that we should en-
deavour to show that we participate in the general
feeling of regret which pervades all classes through-
out the country on this melancholy event.
The House then went into Committee on the motion
of the Noble Lord, and on Mr. BERNAL putting the
question it was agreed to in silence.
NEW WRIT FOR TA MWORTH.

Mr. GOULBU RN then moved that a new writ be
issued for the borough of Tamworth, in the room of the
[ate Sir Robert Peel.—Agreed to.

SUPPLY.

The order of the day for going into Cemmittee of
Supply was then read.
On the question that the Speaker do leave the chair,
Mr. S. CR A.WFORD rose to call the attention of the
House to petitions presented on behalf of the depositors
in the Rochdale Savings Bank, with reference to losses
sustained by means of the defalcations of the late actu-
ary of that bank. Those pe itioners represented that
msny persons had deposited their savings in the Roch-
dale Savings Bank, with the view of making provision
for their maintenance in old age; that by the defalcations
of the so cuary their property had been to a great extent
lust; and that neither the Government nor the trustees
could be made responsible for the defalcations. The
petitioners complained that there had been a want of
proper care in the management of the bank, and
that sufficient guarantees had not been required from
the officers. They further stated, that although
subscriptions had been raised by benevolent
individuals to cover the defalcations to the
amount of about 17,000!., there would still remain a
deficiency of 9,4001.; and, they prayed tithe House
to take measures for the relief of the depositors. He
would remind the House that the influence of the higher
classes had, in many case?, been exercised to induce the
working classes to invest their savings in tee savings
banks, and the children in the Sunday and other schools
were taught to deposit their halfpennies and pennies
weekly in these banks. He thought a strong precedent
was afforded for consenting to the request of the peti-
tioners by the course which had been taken by Govern-
ment with regard to the Exchequer-bills forgery in
1812. The State made good th se defalcations to a very
Large amount ; and he called upon the G ,vernment to
treat the rich and the poor in the same manner. He
maintained that the depositors had a claim en the jus-
tice of the House; and he begged to ask the Chancellor
of the Exchi-quer whether he iatended to propose any
measure to Parliament for the relief of depositors who
had suffered in such cases ? Ho trusted the Right lion.
Gentleman would nit refuse his acquiescence to some
measure for their relief.—(Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that he was certainly not premed to take upon himself
to propose any motion to the House for indemnifying
the persons to whom the Hon. Member had referred for
the losses they had sustained. The subject was under
investigation by a Committee of that House, and till the
Committee had made theiereport he thought the Govern
ment ought not to give any opinion on the matter.
In reply to a question from Mr. V. SMITH, as to the
progress that had been made with the estimates,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the whole of the Ordnance estimates had been voted.
There were ab .ut six votes at the end of the navy esti-
mates which remained to be taken, the remainder of the
navy estimates having been voted. Votes on account
only had been taken for the whole of the army esti-
mates; and votes on account had also been taken for
the civil contingencies, and the whole of the paper No.
3, for civil services. The estimates in papers No. 1,2,
aed 4, had been voLd, with the exception of eight
votes, including those for Buckingham Palace, the Board
of trade, the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, public works
in Ireland, secret service, and the National Gallery in
Rlinburgh. He proposed to proceed to-night with the
rem sitting civil service estimates, and afterwards to take
the postponed votes.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY bad been requested by seve-
ral persons who had come to town as deputations on the
subject of savings banks, to inquire whether it was the
intention cf the Government to proceed with the Savings
Banks Bill this session.

The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that as many objections had been taken to the measure,
he wished to give Hun. Members an opportunity of ex-
pressing their opinions on the subject. He, therefore,
intended to take a discussion on the second reading of
ilia Bill at a mot ning bitting early in the we,k after
next. The course he would ultimately take with regard
to the mes,ure would be ♦ery much decided by what took
place on that occasion, but he hoped it might be possible
to pass the Bill this session.

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 13, 1850.

but necessary duty, were endeavouring to establish peace,
order, and prosperity in the Eastern Archipelago.
Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND had never seen Sir
James Brooke, and when he heard the attacks upon him
he was greatly surprised. But an Hon. Gentleman op-
posite having expressed a wish that he should look into
the subject, ho had done so, with what result the Muse
should leer. It appeared to be denied by Hon. Mem-
bers o,iposite that these natives were pirates at all.
Now, all the authorities concurred in saying that the
people of all these s, as were nothing but pirates, end
never had been anything but pirates. But, as Hon.
Members opposite eared little for the authorities on this
point, he wished to remind them that the Chambers
of Commerce at Manchester and Glasgow had never
left off teszing the Government until they had esta-
blished these two settlements.—(" Hear, hear," from
Mr. Hume.) He begged pardon; don't let the
Honourable Member be rash; the impetuosity of youth
was very great.—(A laugh.) These commercial bodies
especially asked for the establishment of these settle.
ments, on the ground that they were necessary t suppress
piracy in those seas where it was now said by Hon.
Ge !demon opposite there was no piracy at all. The
Mancnester Chamber of Commerce declared that the
settlement at La man would be a terror to the pirates,
and the Manchester Commercial Association followed in
the same strain, representing that Labuan would be a
commanding point for the suppression of piracy. The
Glasgow Chamber of Commerce spoke of the necessity of
occupying Labuan in order to suppress the Malay pirates.
The tilssgow East India Association declared that mea-
sures ought to be taken for the suppression of the piracy
that had so lung prevailed in those sets.—(Heir, hear.)
Oh! they admitted now, did they, that piracy did exist
in these seas? The London and Liverpool East India
Associations made the same representations. It had been
said that Mr. Wise had seen reason to change his opi-
nion of Sir J. Brooke, but he would show that Sir J.
Brooke discarded Mr. \Vise long before that, and that
this circumstance was at the bottom of the whole story.
It was necessary the House should bear in mind that
everything done by Sir J. Brooke in the suppression of
piracy was in virtue of a treaty.—(Hear.) The, third
article of the treaty with the Sultan of Borneo distinctly
stated that in consideration of the cession of Labuan, the
English Government engaged to suppress piracy, the
Sultan and the chiefs affording them every facility
therein.—(Hear.) It was said that these persons were
not committing any piratical acts; but the answer to
that assertion was, that the judge before whom the case
was*tried remitted the hearing because there was not
evidence enough. Witnesses were then brought who
were parties in piratical acts at the time.—(Hear,
bear.) Now, the Hon. Gentleman said that the House
ought to believe him, and not the parties who were en-
gaged in these acts.—(Llear, hear.) He had received
fir his perusal the journal Of a boy who was engaged in
the expedition against these pirates, and which went to
establish the same facts. But then they were told that
it was cruel to attack these people with 9 pounders. But
if they were pirates it was right to destroy them, and
so much the better if they had been 24 pounders. It
was Mr. Wise who was the teal author and instigator
of this Aborigines Protection Society, and who had got
up this public company that Sir James Brooke blew up.
And that was the cause of the antipathy of the Hon.
Member for Glasgow (Mr. Macgregor). He (Mr.
Wise) had teased Sir J. Brooke from beginning to end
of their connexion in order to draw him into a commer-
cial speculation. But Sir J. Brooke continually refused,
and the real charge against him was that he cauld not be
brought into the scheme. They wished to get possession
of the whole territory that was ceded.

Mr. MACGREGOR—I rise to, order.—(A laugh.)
The Hon. Member has linked my name with Sir J.
Brooke, with whom I never had the smallest con-
nexion.—(A laugh,)
The SPEAKER—The lion. Member will have an
opportunity of replying afterwards.
Mr. DRUMMOND had before him the prospectus of
this " East. rn Archipelago Company," in which the
names of the directors were printed in Saxon cha-
racters ; and here, in double Roman capitals, was the
name of John Macgregor, Esq , M.P., chairman."—
(Cheers and laughter.) He had before him the letters
of Mr. Wise to Sir J. Brooke, with whom he was
a partner for a time. Mr. Wise, in these letters
wrote to Sir J. (then Mr.) Brooke to say that he hoped
to obtain a baronetcy for him—(A laugh)—in acknow-
ledgment of his efforts in the cause of civilization. Mr.
Wise was indefatigable in endeavouring to tempt Mr.
Brooke to engage in commercial speculations, which Mr.
Brooke felt to be incompatible with his habits, with his
objects in settling there, and with his duty to the Go-
vernment at home.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
proceeded to read quotations from Mr. Wise's letters, to
establish this point. In one letter Mr. Wise said there
would be no limit to Mr. Brookes' gains if he could get
the fee simple of Sarawak assigned to him, but that he
perceived his reasons for steering clear of partnership
transactions. These letters were written before July,
1944. In 1845 it appeared that Mr. Wise "commenced
proceedings for the establishment of the Borneo Com-
pany."—(Hear, hear.) Was be (Mr. Drummond) right
or wrong when he said that to this gentleman was to be
attributed the whole origin of that company? But he
did more. Captain Keppel, it appeared, published a
book containing an account of his operations on the coast
of Bonet), and off went this indefatigable Mr. Wise to
the publisher, got hold of the work, suppressed the first
volume altogether, and put forth some writings of his
own instead, which would go to the world as the work
of Captain Keppel.—(A laugh.) What he wanted to im-
press on the House was this—that Mr. Wise throughout
ndeale ured to hook Sir James Britoke into a partner.
ship, and that the latter steadily refused to be led into
any such project. The Hon. Member, reverting to the
documents befire him, read extracts at considerable
len.L.;th from the letters of Mr. Wise to Sir J. Brooke,
in which the advantages of a commercial alliance were
strongly insisted on, and great stress laid on the per-
sonal attachment of the writer to the Raja. Mr. Wise
stated that " he had finished the revision and arrange-
ment of Keppel's book, the publication of which he
trusted Mr. Brooke would find conducive to his in-
erests in its altered form." He begged of Mr. Brooke
"Not to hazard his valuable lite in operations on the
coast—he held Mr. Brooke's posthumous fame elt ar to
him—acknowledged his disregard of money, and had
ever been animated by a wish to omit no opportunity of
serving him." In fact, every attempt had been made to
get Sir J. Brooke to act as the agent of this company,
and, on his refusing to do so, they had used every effort
to malign his conduct and character.—(flear.) Mr.
Wise continued to say that if he had not stopped the
first edition of Keepers book, and the correspondence
with the Foreign-office, he doubted if Mr. Brooke would
have been in his present high position, and that the
assurance he had given that the company should receive
every support he could "lawfully" efferd them had been
laid before the board, and was fully appreciated. He
(Mr. Drummond) thought the House had heard enough
of Mr. Wise and of his assiduity. It was not a pleasant
office at any time to expose misconduct, and he should
turn with pleasure to the much more grateful task of
eh° sing to the Government and-to the country the real
sentiments of the man they had employed, to prove to
them how worthy he was of their confidence—to satisfy
them what a noble public servant they had got, and to
encourage the Government to repel the slanders which
had been heaped upon him.—(Cheers.) ( The Hon.
Member then proceeded to read extracts from the cor-
respondence of Mr. Brooke with Mr. Wise, in which
he distinctly stated and reiterated his objections to the
establishment of any large commercial company, and
declared he believed speculations of the kind
would be injurious to the country; that he did not wish
to embark in them, and that " his great desire was to be
clear from trade and from responsibility," as his habits,
tastes, education, and life, had not suited him to em-
bark in such pursuits. The operations of any large
company must interfere with the natives, and he discou-
raged "any plan which might be based for its success on
the destruction of the native population.'—(Hear.) After
the prospectus of the Eastern Archipelago Company had
been actually published, Sir J. Brooke wrote to Mr.
Wise to say he had just seen it, and that he thought it
right to remind Mr. Wise that he (Sir J. Brooke) had
told him there was no part of the country in which there
was security for life and property except in Sarawak,
and that as to the third paragrape of the prospectus,
it would give the people to understand that the
Sultan of Borneo had given the company the exclu-
sive right of working the coal mines for 150 miles,
whereas he had merely given them the right to work
the mines, and did not at all justify them in infringing
on the rights of the owners of the soil. Sir J.
Brooke concluded by expressing his belief that his re-
fusal to join the company would be found not only of
great advantage to their interests, but to his own good
name. He thought he had said enough to show that the
Government had a most valuable servant in Sir J.
Brooke—(Hear, hear)—that they could not entrust their
business to a more faithful and honest man. But this
indefatigable Mr. Wise, understanding what a country
this was for humbug, and seeing how easy it was to
work on the feelings of the pious, said, after some re-
ference to the instability of the then Administration, and
some complaint of systematic shuMing on the part of
the Government in being handed over from one depart-
ment to another, that he was convinced their only
chance was in their own exertions, and in organizing
an agitation on the Manchester plan; that he was
considering the best means of doing so; and that, aided
by the press and Members of both Houses of Parlia-
ment, as well as by rousing the apathy of the religious
world—(Hear)—the Government would be compelled to
bestir themselves.—(l-lear hear.) He added that he was
now "stirring up the Philanthropic Society"—(A
laugh)—and urged that no element of agitation should
be allowed to lie dormant, and that all parties and all
creeds should partake of the proposed movement. Ac-
e )rdingly out came a thundering prospectus from the
Peace and Aborigines Protection Societies, stating that
the Dyaks were never known as pirates till Sir J. Brooke
'described them as such. Mr. James Bell, a treasurer of
the Aborigines Protection Society, had written a letter,
in which it was said the movement against Sir J. Brooke
originated solely with the Peace and Aborigines Protec-
tion Societies. That was what was called a religious
society. A clever and able agent so long as he was the
faithful agent of Sir James Brooke, Mr. %Vise was as
indsfst gable in the line he had since taken. It had been
shown that he was at the bottom of the Peace and Abori-
gines Protection Societies' movements; that he had sup-
plied every particle of the information on which Hon.
Gentlemen opposite relied; a proof that
"Death has no pangs like love to hatred turned,
Nor hell a fury like a trader spurned,"
—(Cheers and laughter)
Mr. MACGREGOR rose to explain that he had only
become the Chairman of the Berneo Company after
going over the matter with Captain Keppel and others
who were mainly interested; that they had confined
their exertions to the raising of coals, anti that the com-
pany's means had always been sufficient to meet the
claims upon it.
Mr. BAILLIE COCHRANE bore testimony to the
high and honourable, chivalrous, and noble character
of Sir James Brooke, whose only desire was to proceed
in a philatuthroPic spirit, -and coy with justice WM*

those over whom he was placed. It was somewhat re-1
markeble, he thought, that when Sir James Brooke re-
turned to England, after an absence of nine years, ho
was received with enthusiasm by thoss very Gentlemen,
some of whom he saw opposite, who now brought all
sorts of charges against him. Those Hon. Gentlemen
waited until Sir James Brooke had left this country to
make those att,cke against him of which previously
there hal not been a whisper. Addressing himself
more immediately to the subject under discussion, the
Hen. Gentleman contended that our treaty with the
Netherlands in 1824 made it obligatory on us to aid
in the suppression of piracy in the Eastern Archipe-
lago; and the very object in view in stationing our ships
on that coast was to suppress such piracy. So far from
Sir Thomas Cochrane and Sir W. Parker considering
the/ Sir James Brooke was an unfit person for the posi-
tion be held, it was known that when that individual
became Raja of Sarawak they contemplated recom-
mending that the whole of that country should be
placed under his con'rol in lieu of the Sultan. In the
absence of Sir James Brooke, he thought it savoured
somewhat of inhumanity to attribute to him mere motives
of plunder; and it was equally unjust to impute such
motives to the British 11:et. lie trusted the members
of the Peace Society would exhibit a sufficient sense of
justice not to repeat that charge again, and that even the
lion. Member for the West Riding would render justice
to the high and noble character of the distinguished
officer whose acts hid been cal d into question.
Colonel THO UPSON observed that nu contradiction
had yet been essayed to the simple assertion of the Ho-
nourable Member for Montrose, that the men whose
blood we had paid for were not pirates, and that every
proof had failed to show they were pirates. The pro-
ceedings which it p!eased some to call piracy wore in-
testine wars, carried on between various native tribes,
and there was a total lack and absence of evidence to
show these men were pirates iu any sense in which an
English statesman could have a right to interfere. It
was said that Sir Christopher Rawlinsou had given a de-
cision that these men were pirates. He (Colonel
Thompson) regretted that the present transition state
of the Government did not permit them to have a law
officer in the House to offer an opinion on the point—(A
laugh)—but he believed the Bishop of Calcutta quite as
much entitled to deliver such a judgment as Sir Chris-
topher Rawlinson, whose functions ought to have been
confined to the collection of evidence. No evidence bad
been adduced proving these men to have been pirates. He
asked, theref,re, of the House an impartial consi-
deration of the case; and from the hostile verdict of
that House he was prepared to appeal to the verdict of
the country. _ _ _

Sir H. VRRNEY quoted from the Singapore Free
Press, to prove the existence of piracy in this quarter
of the world, and cited the cases of two vessels laden
with sago, and on their way to Singapore, which had
been plundered. He also referred to the previous testi-
mony of Sir Stamford Raffles, to establish the fact of
piracy in this particular region. This country had never
been served by a more discreet and judicious officer
than Sir James Brooke had proved himself' to be; and
the statements of the Honourable Member for Montrose
with respect to him, although not founded on intentional
were certainly founded in complete error. He therefore
desired that a declaration should go forth to the world
that the House of Commons were unanimous in their
approval of the conduct of Sir James Brooke throughout
the whole of these transactions.
Colonel RAWDON thought it unnecessary to add a
single word to the already complete defence which the
proceedings of Sir James Brooke had called forth.
Sir R. H. INGLIS observed that this was not a
question of cant and hypocrisy, as had been asserted, but
a question involving the character of one of the ablest,
most gallant, and humane men who ever exercised
authority in any foreign country in the name of the
people of England—(Hear. hear)—and he could not
refrain from expressing his strong feelings in di fence of
such a man. What better evidence of the existence of
piracy in these seas could be procured than the deposi-
tions either of the witnesses to the acts of piracy or the
victims of them?—(Hear.) When it was contended that
this piracy had not been committed on British subjects,
he only wished that Captain Aaron Smith could burst
in upon the House as he had upon the peace meeting.—
( A laugh.) He thought the conduct of Sir James Brooke
had reflected honour on the name of England; and he
felt it a privilege to be able to call himself the friend of
a man so distinguished.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COBDEN observed that a great deal had been
said about the transactions of Sir James Brooke, and
about his correspondence with Mr. Wise, and abeut
other matters referring to the personal character of Sir
James Brooke. Nuw, he did not at all know that Sir
James Brooke was responsible for the massacres men-
tioned by his Honourable Friend the Member for Mon-
trose, for it was essential to know what were the instruc-
tions of Captain Parker. His Honourable Friend hied
moved for a copy of the instructions of Sir Francis
Collier; the House ordered the return, but the Govern-
ment had not furnished it; and he therefore wanted to
know why these men had been massacred, who mas-
sacred them, and who was to be held responsible for the
act? He very much suspected teat Sir Francis Collier
would have agreed with the views entertained by his
(Mr. Cobden's) friends with regard to these transac-
tions; and he called upon the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Sir F. Baring) to be explicit ou the subj.-ct. When
that Right liou. Gentleman brought in his Bill for the
repeal of the Head Money Act, he said he had received
a communication from Sir F. Collier, recommending al-
terations in the system. Now, he should like to be fur-
nished with that communication, in order to see what Sir
F. Collier's opinions on the subject really were,
Well, the Head Money Bill was repealed; but if these
men were really pirates, he (Mr. Cobden) could not con-
ceive a time when a head-money Act was necessary.
And yet no sooner did the Government receive intelli-
gence of the massacre of some 1,000 or 1,500 De aks,
than one of the first measures of the Governm«nt, in the
month of February, was to repeal the Act awarding
head-money for the destruction of pirates. Now, he
asked the Government why, immediately on the reas-
sembling of Parliament, they had asked for a repeal of
this Act, if something had not been going on on the
coast of Borneo, for which head-money was to be paid?
The Head Money Act of 1825 had reference to piracy
in the Carribean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico, and was
passed in order to incite our navy to increased efforts for
the suppression of that piracy. But the parties called
pirates on the coast of Borneo bad no sort of resem-
blance to the pirates of the Gulf of Mexico and the Car-
ribeen Sea. The Hon. Member for Newport (Mr. Plow-
den), in attempting to prove piracy in the Indian Archi-
pelago, was out of his reckoning by 500 miles as to the
place where the proceedings had actually occurred. The
Government, it was said, had a defender in the Singapore
Free Press ; but the Dyaks, it appeared, had a friend in
the other newspaper of that place. ro quote the opinion
of Sir Stamford Raffles, given thirty-eight years ago, as
an authority in this case, was an insult to the under-
standing of the House. They had been forced to bring
in a Bill to give 25,0001. for the destruction of these
1,200 poor persons; for there was nut the slightest evi-
dence to show that they were pirates.—(Hear, bear.) If
they .went 500 miles to the north, he would admit that
they might meet with many pirates. He admitted that
the Malays, the inhabitants of Celebes, Soul so, and Ma-
cassar, and the S•raits of Malacca, were pirates, but he
denied that the persons who bat been destroyed were
ever convicted of any act such as was contemplated to be
piracy when the Act passed.—(Rear, hear.) The Hon.
Member for Bedford, who followed his Hon. and Gallant
Friend, had quoted the inAence of a boat laden with
provisions having been plundered on its way to Singa-
pore. It appeared that a boat laden with sago had been
destroyed; but whether this had been done by the Dyaks
or any other people did not appear, but the value of the
cargo was estimated at only a few shillings. It ap-
peared that the Dyaks went on an expedition to destroy
Matoo, and they were repulsed with a loss of twelve
men. What he complained of was of our naval
forces being sent to destroy men merely for quar-
relling and going to war with their next neighbours.
—(User, hear.) This country had nothing to do with
their going to war with Kure); we had nothing more
to do with these people at Matoo than with any savage
tribe on the coast of Africa. What would this country
have thought if some most powerful nation came and
made an attack upon us because, until lately, we had
been for some centuries at war with France.—(Hear
hear.) Such, however, was a case exactly analogous to
that before the House. Lord Stanley, in his interpre-
tation of the minute, expressly stated that people should
not be considered or treated as pirates, unless they at-
tacked ships under the British flag. If any one could
show that the poor Dyaks had ever attacked any Eng-
lish vessel he would give up the whole case.—(Elear.)
They had not only squandered away 25,0001. for the de-
struction of these men, but by their slaughter they had
succeeded in bringing disgrace on the name of England.
He might be told that he was attacking the British navy.
—(Hear.) He denied there was any ground for such
an assertion. Indeed he believed the Bill which had passed
on the subject of pirates' head-money had been brought
in at the instigation of a naval officer, and it
was recommended to the Admiralty by Admiral Collier
himself:—(t-leer, hear.) You had insisted on sending
ships to attack these people with shots and shells, and a
great number of boats had been destroyed with the
people on board, and it did not appear that any of these
were armed even wile a musket. By such proceedings
not less than 1,500 persons had been destroyed; and he
considered and did not hesitate to call it a human butte.—
( dear, hear, and cries of " Oh, oh.") He did not be-
lieve such a disgraceful occurrence had happened since
the proceedings of Cortee in Mexico, where such un-
provoked massacres took place, and which could bring
but little glory on the authors of such transactions. He
did not charge the navy with these proceedings, as he
believed Admiral Collier and other naval officers would
not incur the responsibility of such acts without orders.
—(Herr, hear.) He was not going to discuss Governor
Brookes transactions with Mr. Wise, for that matter
had nothing to do with the question before the House.
His Hon. Friend asked to have a Committee to inquire
into the circumstances which attended the heavy loss of
life and slaughter of parts of certain native tribes belong-
ing to the northern parts of the island of Borneo, called
Sarebas and Sakerran, and reported to be pirates; and
her Mejesty's Government met this motion by nar-
rating the quarrels which took place between Go
vernor Brooke end Mr. Wise. The circumstances
as narrated did not reflect much credit on Go-
vernor Brooke, for Mr. Wise had been for fifteen
years his confidential friend and adviser. Under such
circumstances any attack on Mr. Wise must fell bail
on Governer Brooke. When they came to the vote for
the salary of Governor Brooke as Governor of Lahuan, it
would be the proper time to consider his proceedings as
the gotiernor of that place. If there was any species of
'intervention which he condemned more than another, it
was one for the destruction of pirates, because they were
at war with their neighbours.—(Hear, hear.) Some-
thing hail been sail about the state of New Z eland; but
Captain Cook, who was a great man, did not act towards
the natives of that place as Governor Brooke h.'.d to-
wards the inhabitants of Borneo. Captain Cook found
that the people there wore not only savages and can-
nibals, send deicribed with harm Che cimonetillice 0

reallytheir
atie
ga b. o utw
Althoughi with them
two
oboafskteht
es
crew
wh uotel rie :seeds! I'de
hod been treacherously
not let loose upon them his 32-pounders, heeP,..ch had
the island a numeer of domestic animals; ant:
that they
been their rapid improvemeat since that tame,
eenree
a re--
now promised to be..otne a most distinguish d at
meseacred by the native :aeed
on
They Lai been told that Governor Brooke we,seeleir.
man because he had destroyed thesepilvratttehs,hbourtallese.
Cobden) regarded such proceedings
tearled his Hon. Friend for having brought this tee
Lion again before the Hums--; and notwithstaue'he sees
insinuations of the Hon. Member for Surrey, being
being
sure the country would also give him credit for in his
actuated by the purest motives in this as well its
other proceedings.
re,BARINGand
he
had
dd
heardargued h
the same
mq
e d ISyi rb}e'io
so oft n, as to there being no evidence, that 6
b celled
hardly have been induced to rise, had be not bee As lee
upon to do so by tee Honourable Meraber.eoleped
Elonnarrable Gentle man would hear him again' heesseete
the House would excuse him if he repeated the e
glom
which he had given on former occasions. illureement
Velistribees.
Gentleman had asked how was it that the
ueeasstisoenr
as:enrol:10
had brought iu a separate 8.11 regulating be ,d not be
Lion of pirates' head-money, and that it shout elites.
given to any until they had been proved to be,l;aesse.
That Bill had nothing whatever to do with the e,` „ore
tion la fore the House, for it happened that thet,"ee, Btll
had been under consideration some: time, and eed but
which was drawn last was to have been introdueed that
for circumstances that then occurred. It hall'? oar
a change took place in the Admiralty; and thet
quence of his Honourable Friend, then secretary , not
eas department, having quitted that office the Bill ". so
s
then brought in.—(flear, hear.) There Tee the
doubt that some reward should be given le re'
destruction of pirates. If the House gs g eth
wards fur services in the navy, they must beeg be bill
not only when there was a hard battle or U 0,1,0
also something must be given in transactiene
wore
might apparently require tbe same gallantry, 13°13%005
the service was often of an arduous sod d* Colley°
nature. The Hon. Gentleman said he did not be'
there was any resistance on the part of the Pirneaetioee
cause no ore was killed on our side in the tea
,oh ese,
This, however, was no answer to the case Th whore ers
been put in defence of this proceeding•
eaerntaeo
at once to proceed with the Bill alluded to---et fee the
eet
another circumstance which induced the -lee
which suddenly came upon them to pay 100,09°‘ re cos'
el.
destruction of pirates. This appeared to be aTe
siderable sum, and it added to the conviction slyer,
already existed that the law required revision..6.oitel
hear.) It was quite true that that gallant officer, 41110!
Collier, had held some private communications wilt tble
on this subject, and in which he said he tbeelg 0f the
some alteration should be made in conseleenee, bed'
large amount this country had to pay as piratetere
money. The Hon. Member for Montrose moved
ehdr '
who
turn of the orders under which the officer act ttea to
had destroyed these pirates. He had no obi
late to
their production, but he had not been able hit ieeefi
obtain a copy of them. They were not at the Ala to
he had therefore written to Admiral Cherie die"
send them over ; that gallant officer, however, loiselit
before his letter reached him, and some delay 11,13;reetiouS
therefore, on this ground. He had also given "'" coPI
that Captain Farquhar should be written to for der et'
of them, but he had left his ship when the (Who re,
rived. It was quite clear that Captain Farque seeteela
ceived orders under which he acted, and thereeekle°
be no objection to produce them as soon as thee' "
°
procuMr.red. bit
e°
asked whether Captain Farquhar al
complained of these orders ? ewe
Sir F. BARING replied that that gallant oe., Tee
not complained in the slightest degree.—(Oheersilter, is
Hon. Gentleman had also written to him e. lereeelSt
which he charged him with having garbled a Peebegeieg
paper before it was laid before the House, an° etas::
him net to garble any more public doetleir
(Laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman said be eed eser
Baring) had garbled information; but he had loose west;
all the papers, and he could not find any grotiolie bag
ever for such an assertion.—(Hear, hear.) ,seee
asked the Hon. Member to point out the iee'ber be
which he had garble papers, but the Hon. Mete ides'
never done so; he (Sir F. Baring) eupposed
Gentleman was too wise to do so.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. HUME said there were cases of the kind.„„
Sir F. BARING.—Then why not point outeteePe
ticular instance of the kind ?—(Hear, bear.) e—eottle
Gentleman who spoke last complained that theY--.ool°
determine this question as to whether thel Le/el
were pirates or not, without referring to Sir %leer bite
Raffles, and other autholitiee. The Hon. binretetletsitt
no business to interfere. Was the Hon. et Pe;
aware that a specific treaty existed between Gtr doe the
fain and the Government of the Netherlands, fin earri
stipulations of which both nations were bowie' r tecel
into effect as arrangement for repressing piracy one fee"
seas.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman he the,
very differently from him on this subject; for anions
books which he had consulted, ho found adroissl°) fie
the existence of piracy in these seas.—(flear, herseero
was surerised, also, that the Hon. Gentleman hall greet
no notice f the extracts from the report of
.E6hteeer f°,f,
commercial autheritiei, which the Hon. Dee,ree d te;
Surre y had alluded to. He (Sir F. Baring) a"" yeti P,1,,
the representations which had been drawl:ler/el e-
Chambers of Commerce in different large °re-00W
vari 'us parts of the empire, in which the, cod
ment was called upon to protect teehobeerse
coerce of this country in -those seas.--e`eotePee,
Surely these persons might be assumed as beiegeeee the
tent to know the particular circumstances °Ampule
commacommerce in those seas, and as to whether any riskTbd
run from the attacks of pirates?—(Hear, heereei offer:
Government have repeatedly been called upon tee 5011
protection, and put an end to the piracy the.beee 0
It was clear that the merchants who were enehleestere
the Chambers of Commerce at Leeds, gape-- fele
Glasgow, and other large towns, entertained aidisioo
different opinion from the Hon. Member, In eueeiott
to this, there were parties who, from their local Pfse the
in these parts, might be supposed to be familiar /etre'
subject. The Government bad received repeatediolii
sentations from the merchants of Singapore conel3„'ilee."
of the pirates in those seas not being driveneateeoteel°
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member bad that nireeif fe.
an attack upon the Free Press of Singapore. Pee: red
Baring) did not intend to defend all that aPPeeeefeo°,
the press on one side or the other; but he per
in the other Singapore paper an addrees of thee° or
chants of Singapore, in which they stated that C-des'
gauised system of piracy existed which was ulTbe Qati
gerous to those seas, and which must at euh`, bee":
down to insure confidence. Surely, it Intle"d with
mitted that those gentlemen must be acquailet:,oB.l
what was taking place in their own neighhear".-d tbs.
(Hear, hear.) Then, aga n, the Hon. Member Ole is
all he called for was inquiry. Had there not b° better
quiry?—(Hear, hear.) What could they beve° .judge
than a plain and open inquiry before an English eel °,e
and an English lawyer?—(Hear, hear.) It was erred
easy a matter to prove facts before them as it Whore
to be thought in the House of Commons.--( eee ar,tetbeeo
In this case the judge was net only satisfied tha setetel -
was the appearance of piracy, but that there was sod
piracy, and that there were many piratical Praeeeerebe;
boats in those seas.—(Hear, hear.) His Illehsee thee,
and Gallant Friend (Colonel Thompson) etattel
he had been assured that the judge had cbaneee e"
opinion. It was true in the first instance the
Christopher Raelinson said he was not satisfied °denote
proof et piracy. If Honourable Gentlemen evehle vet!:
stilt the papers they would see that Sir Christopher
bid
linson said there was not sufficient evidence before
be
to satisfy his mind that these parties were Pira'eetle°
therefore required further evidence. Further. elle etc
was brought before this learned judge, who theeilegre;
Oared that he was perfectly satisfied.—(llea'' et IP-
Thus it appeared that they had the declarations --a tbee
Chambers of Commerce in this country, thee' reed °'
address of merchants residing in the neighbour"eder
these people, and they had the decision of a court )(joar
lice which had carefully inquired into the whole CI( 410
stances of the case, and were satisfied as to these P old
being pirates; but they were told they must 95500° so
there was not a tittle
of evidence in support of suell
assertion.—(Cheers.) ere°
Sir E. COLEBROOKE wished merely to eeleie to
in a few words the reasons which would induce e'le, for
support the motion of his Hon. Friend the Neosho vise
Montrose; but in giving this vote he knew he was WO'
against the general opinions of the House. Thee cod,
Member for BedteeTl (Sir Harry Verney) bee,. foe
Wattled of his Hon. Friend the Member for Montre'ss
having said there were no pirates on the west cos, et
Borneo. His Hon. Friend spoke on the authore"eoS,
Mr. Lowe, who was connected with Labuan, 413'ote
well acquainted with Sarawak, and who distinctly sti, the
that piracy was not carried on by the inhabitants ° Or'
western coast of Borneo. He had the extract Wine, lot
Lowe's work in his hand, but it was unnecesseereiteoo
him to detain the House by reading it. That ge°7-oor
also stated that the pirates came from tbe north °' etet
neo and the Sooloo Islands, and the neighbouring P of
and made attacks upon the southern and western ['° the
that large island, and had even made attacks ePhelestier
town of Borneo itself. The real question was, rob
the persons who had been attacked and destroyed those
really pirates. Personally he knew nothing
parts ; but he had read the diaries of Cuseee
Mundy and Keppel, and the evidence furn'rellte
by Sir J. Brooke, Mr. Wise, and Mr. Lowe. 9005
conclusion he had come to was that the per gad
who had made these attacks were MalaYeeptia
those who came down the rivers, not in prabute ale
canoes. There were, no doubt, many persons 09.',,ere
coast who would plunder boats, and so far tbecd to
pirates.—(Laughter.) If, however, it was intenunost
attack all parties who pursued such courser, they de/
extirpate the whole of the population of these ishoi a 00
(Hear, hear.) If u British force was to be ernPlo,loo it
such proceedings, the House should, at least, saue'ted
with their eyes open. The question was, whethernt at
were prepared to uphold and defend the settleinedeebt
Sarawak. If this was to be done, there wee 130:
hes is
they would have to put down many other tr.' ttle
Borneo. He did not regard Sarawak as a British Id ea
meat—(Bear, hear)—but surely some one eh° 110
made responsible for the proceedings at that place*,
concurred also that naval officers should have sour were
creation allowed them as to the course which they their
directed to pursue. He believed the best course e to
could pursue was to make Governor Brooke retee.ruP),,
Labuan. That colony would in his (Sir E. Colebr°:oo
opinion prove of the greatest use in the represselneeeee
piracy, as it was 300 miles nearer to the north of valve
than Sarawak, so that the pirates would be Pr°
coming down the coast.
The House then divided, when there appearsd-e.
Fir the motion—Ayes 29
Noes ... 169 e
Majority against the motion...--e—it
The House then went into Committee of SePlo
A vote of 109,8501, to defray the expenses 01
, litia, was agreed to.

Is