The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-06 00:00:00

THE iSUI4, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING,. MARCH 6_, 1857.

possible for me to do so. The question is an urgent one.
I have a motion which I intended to make in committee
of ways and means, and I am bound to say that nothing
has been said by my noble friend which would lead me to
think that there will be any cause for this house, during
the limited term of its existence, to relax its vigilance in
regard to the taxation and expenditure of the country.
(Cheers.) Upon tbat principle it is my intention to act;
though of course the application of that principle must
depend upon what may be said by my noble friend ; but
I concur in hoping that every practical facility will be
afforded for the despatch of business. (Hear.)
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that those gentlemen who
had met by accident in the lobby the other night would
not be likely to meet there again if any vote could be
taken on the question before the house. The right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) had been attempting to
mystify the house upon this question. He stated that
the resolution agreed to on Tuesday was not the resolu-
tion of Mr. Cobden, but was the solemn judgment of
the house. Well, from that judgment the noble lord
was going to appeal to the country. (Hear.) The right
hon. gentleman said, "Look at the division list." But
what did he say it contained ? He only mentioned the
noble lord the member for the City of London. Was
there, then, to be no appeal from the decision of that
noble lord ? (Laughter.) They were not to call it a
"combination ;" but there appeared to have been some-
thing very like a union of parties. (Hear, hear.) It was,
at all events, a very remarkable circumstance, that a
motion very similar to that of the hon. member was pro-
posed in another place by the noble earl the leader of
the Conservative party, and a warm interest was taken
by gentlemen in this house in the success of that motion.
(Rear, hear.) The noble viscount naturally thought that
a motion introduced by Lord Derby, and supported by
gentlemen who were generally known in the country as
the peace-at-any-price party, and by his former col-
leagues below the gangway, looked something like a
c nnbination. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman
said, "Look at the division list !" Well, the noble vis-
count was perfectly justified by that list in appealing to
the country. (Cheers.) On which side did those who re-
present large constituencies vote? Of fifteen metropo-
litan members—(laughter)—twelve voted with the Go-
vernment. Where again was the West Riding ? The
hon. gentleman the present member for the West Riding
—(laughter) —moved the resolution ; but his colleague
voted against him. (Hear, bear.) They laughed at the
metropolis—let them laugh at LiverpOol and Birming-
ham. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for Bucks and the member for the University were
not likely to meet again in the lobby ; for the one said
the noble viscount had dealt frankly and honestly with
the house; and the other said he bad voted diseegenu-
ou•ly. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) said
he must have an answer to the question of the bon. gen-
tleman (Mr Cobden), whether the future policy of the
Government with regard to China was to be changed.
The noble I)rd bad told them it was not. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord was going to appeal to the country on
that issue, and the verdict would be in his favour ; be-
cause the country thought he had maintained the na-
tional honour, and had done right in determining not to
permit treaties to be evaded with impunity. (Cheers.)
The noble lord was going to ask the public whether they
approved of his liberal foreign policy. (Oh, oh.) It was a
liberal policy ; and the public would ask themselves
where, if Lord Aberdeen's Government had remained in
power, we should have been now ? We should have
had a peace very different from that which the noble
viscount had secured for, us. The noble lord (Lord J.
Russell) was the British lion when be stood at the table;
but he was a spaniel at Vienna. (Laughter.) The house
would recol'ect what the right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for the University had said about the Russian war.
He said it was a wicked war—
Mr. GLADSTONE—I beg pardon. (Order.) I be-
lieve I am within the order of the house in contradicting
the bon gentleman. I never raid a syllable of the kind ;
and I have often said just the reverse. (Rear.)
Mr. D UNCO MBE was not stlting anything the right
hon. gentleman had said tbat night; but the right hon.
gentleman had declared 'that the war Ought not to
have been entered upon—(no, no)—and that the Empe-
ror of Russia ought to have been reimbursed for the ex-
penses of the war. (Oh !oh I and laughter.)
Mr. GLA.DSTONE—I rise to protest against that
statement. (Order, order.) Well, if lam not to be per-
mitted the usual privilege of members I will sit down.
Mr. DUNCOMBE had certainly understood the right
hon. gentleman to say so—it Wit 3 during the discussion
after the return of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) from
Vienna. No doubt the right hon. gentleman had ap-
proved of the war; and his subsequent disapproval of it
was what he (Mr. Duncombe) could never understand.
But the right hon. gentleman did disapprove of the way
in which it was carried on. (Hear, hear.) Then there
was the right hon. gentleman the member for Wiltshire.
He ('dr. Duncombe) supposed he was wrong again—
(laughter)—but he understood that right hen, gentleman
to concur in condemning the war.
Mr. S. HERBERT—I never said any such thing.
(Laughter.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE—The right hon. gentleman during
the discussion after the noble lord's return-from Vienna
said wo ought to have been content with two of the four
point ±.
Mr. B. HERBERT—No, no. (Laughter.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE—Do you mean to say you didn't?
(Loud laughter.) Well, then, it was three points. (A
laugh.) Then there was the right hon. baronet the mem-
ber fur Carlisle. (Laughter, and cries of "Question.")
They said the Government bad no policy; but what was
the right hon. gentleman's policy ? He said, "Don't
drive Russia to the wall." Did not he say that ? Well,
but what did we go to war for but to drive Russia to the
wall ? (Hear.) At last we did so, and we got a peace
—deficient in some respects, no doubt, but a peace very
different from that with which the right hon. gentlemen
would have been sa,isfied. (Cheers.) The noble vie-
ceune's foreign policy, then, would meet with the sup-
port of the country. (Hear.) With regard to his domes-
tic poi cy—(laughter)—the noble viscount mint tale a
more decided course. (Laughter and cheers.) The noble
lord had sufficient diplomacy, if they liked to call it so,
not to see the necessity of that. The noble lord had
never said he was against all reform, but on the contrary
be was a party to a very good bill, which was introduced
by the noble lord the member for the City of London.
Would the hon. gentlemen opposite give them a better ?
(Rear, hear.) If he would only continue that course,
and proclaim to the country that he would maintain
the honour of our national flag—that be would not
allow treaties to be evaded with impunity—be might
defy that puny jea'ousy by which he was surrounded
here (cheers) and set at nought the misrepre-
sentation to which he was exposed elsewhere, because
he would receive the support of a very vast majority of
that large c immunity whose interests were committed to
his care, and who would not allow those interests to be
sacrificed to either unprincipled cabals or mere accidental
meetings in lobbies. (Cheers.)
Sir J. GRAHAM—I had thought that the objects of
the present debate had been sufficiently wide and desul-
tory without introducing into it the topic which the last
speaker has thought fit to raise-=--the commencement
and the oonduct of the Russian war. Unintentionally,
no doubt, he has so much misrepresented what fell from
former speakers, that I cannot allow this debate to close
without offering a few words in explanation on behalf of
myself and two rigfit hon. friends near me. They and
myself were co leagues of the noble lord (Palmerston) and
other gentlemen on the Treasury bench at the time of
the declaration of war. We believed it to be just and ne-
cessary—we so declared it—at the commencement and
during the progress, and from that declaration andethat
opinion we have never swerved. Together with the noble
lord, when we were his colleagues for a short time after
the fall of the Aberdeen Administration, we werejparties
to sending the noble lord(Russell) to Vienna, to negotiate
peace, and so far from driving Russia to the wall, which
I admit I declared to be impolitic, we were parties to
the instructions given to that noble lord with reference
to the negotfations at Vienna. I and my two right hon.
friends stilt retain the opinion that peace with Russia
might have been honourably and advantageously coti-
chided in conformity with those instructions, and in co-
incidence with the opinion of the noble lord who at-
tempted to negotiate the peace, and with that of the
noble viscount, who was not only a party to those in-
structions, but was at the bead of the Government when
they were framed. And, if we are to try these negotia-
tions at Vienna, or the conclusion of a peace by the ques-
tion—was Russia driven to the wall ? it must be re-
membered that the conclusion of peace left Russia with
Sebastopol still in her possession, and if her power was
somewhat broken in the Mack Sea, it is by no means
impaired in the Baltic (Hear, hear.) Upon the question
before the house, may I presume very shortly to express
my opinion ? The noble lord (Russell) has referred to
penal dissolutions of parliament. It cannot fora moment
be doubted that the tbreateried dissolution is of a penal
character. A dissolution of that description was resisted

maximum. The Mutiny Bill for the army must be based
upon souse definite number, and considering that the
force proposed is the maximum, I should, for a time li-
mited, be willing to give my consent to that number,
always leaving it perfectly open to the new Parliament
to consider the number of men. There is another point
to which I must allude, that of taxation ; and when the
noble lord speaks in reply, I hope he will give us some
clear notion of his policy on that question. I take it we
are all agreed that no advantage should be taken of the
technical ground on which the exaction of the 16d. in-
come tax for the year 1857 8, might be insisted on. It
must be observed that there are two different itemscoms
prised under the definition of the war income tax—one
an addition or9d., made shortly after the commencement
of the war, and a second item of 2d., now also partaking
of a war charalter, making in all 11d., which was added
during tbe•war. If the law as it now exists should not
be maintained, the principle that ought to come into ope-
ration on the sth of April next is, that sd. in the pound
only should be levied. A great question will arise before
Parliatuent is dissolved—and it is impossible for us to pre-
vent it—what shall be the amount of income tax for the
ensuing year ? That question must be considered with
reference to the expenditure of the State and the policy
of the Government ; and it cannot be considered apart
from the question of the Persian and the Chinese wars.
There is another question hardly less important upon
which a decision also must become to. There is 4,500,0001.
of arrear of the war income tax to be levied between
the sth of April and the 6th of October ; and that sum, by
the past decision of Parliament, has been appropriated to
the extinction of a particular portion of debt, six mil-
lions of Exchequer bonds. It is sought by the Govern-
ment to apply that 4,500,000/. to the expenses of the
current year. That void be a dep,arture from the policy
that has been affirmed by this house in the most delibe-
rate manner. These are questions that cannot be post-
poned and must be decided. So also with respect to
the tea duties, which stand for discussion to-morrow
night.. (Hear, hear.) Were the law allowed to take
its course, that duty would be ls. 3d. per lb. from sth
April next. A notice stands for to-morrow night for
the Government to propose a considerable addition to
that duty. It will be for the house to consider whether,
being about to meet our • constituents, we shall impose
upon two articles of first necessity, next to bread, a
heavy additional tax, partaking of the nature of a war
I tax. (Hear, bear.) admit that the duty on spirits is
a duty which ought to be carried to the utmost extent
consistent with security to the revenue ; but there is a
war duty of 100,0001. a year which it is sought to ren-
der permanent. Ido not abject to that; but there are
questions of finance which must be dealt with, and dealt
with immediately. This being s and as much discussion
must ensue in the pre-eat Parliament with reference to
these important matters, I think some explicit informa-
tion from the noble lord as to the course he intends to
pursue with reference to taxation would be not only for
the convenience of the house, but that it is just to the
community. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON said it was clear that the Go-
vernment paid no deference to the vote of that house.
(Hear, hear.) It was most desirable that they should
know what were the intentions of the Government as to
the Chinese war—(hear)—more especially after the state-
ment of Mr. Duacombe that the Government did not
intend to alter their Chinese policy in any degree, or
make any change in the hands to which the conduct of
our affairs there was committed. (Hear, hear.) He
had fully expected that the noble lord would announce
his intention of appealing to the country, but he had
exoected that that announcement would have been
accompanied by a declaration that the conduct of our
affairs in China was no longer to be left in those unsafe
and incompetent bands. (Hear, bear.) He inferred,
from the silence of the noble lord and the evasive
speeches of his two colleagues, that the Government had
not yet made up their minds on the subject. Before the
house was called on to vote supplies, with a view to
facilitate the dissolution, he hoped the Government
would state what policy they meant to adopt on this
question. (Hear, hear.) It was now denied by Sir G.
Grey that the hostilities in China arose from a desire to
obtain by force of arms the right of entry into Canton.
What, then, were we carrying on the war for? What
was its real object (Hear, hear.) He had heard with
surprise the statement that any danger to British life or
property there would be traceable to the vote of Tuesday
night. He appealed to the journals of the day to show
whether the deplorable course that had been pursued by
our officals in China had not been already attended
with such danger to British life and interests, that it
was scarcely possible for it to be aggravated by any
effect of the late vote. After that vote, the simple de
claration of the noble lord that steps had been taken for
the protection of life and property there was not enough.
He was willing to afl ird every facility to the Govern-
meet in transacting business essential to be done before
the dissolution, so far as that was consistent with the
interests of our fellow-countrymen • but they had a
right to know from the noble lord whether the conduct
of affairs in China was or was not to be left in the same
unsafe and incompetent hands. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. J. FOX said that imputations having been
thrown out by the noble lord at the head of the Govern-
ment and the hon. member for Finsbury as to the motives
of those who had voted in the majority the other night,
he felt he owed it to himself and his in.tependent friends
to repel anythinr, like party spirit upon the occasion re-
ferred to. He thought it was one of the most unjust im-
putations that could be made. (Hear, hear.) Nothing
could be more alien from those feelings and sentiments
which really induced them to give their honest votes on
Tuesday night. He confessed ho had great difficulties in
making up his mind to vote for the motion. He certainly
had no wish to do anything that would assist in the resto-
ration of the Derby Government, whether by themselves
or in conjunction with the members of any other party.
Although the noble lord had disappointed his expectations
in many respects--although he thbught that the policy of
the noble lord tended to lower the flag of England, he
was not disposed to vote for the opposite party. Although
they were called the peace-at-any-price" party, they had
made many sacrifices during the late war, in order to
strengthen the hands of the Government, and to support
the honour and the dignity of the country. With regard
to Sir John Bowring, he (Mr. Fox) had had a long friend-
ship for him ; he admired him for the versatilityof his talents,
his upright principles, pure integrity, and high-minded
patriotism. Nevertheless he could not blind -his eyes to the
aet to which he was a party in Canton; and which was so
opposed to the honour and the interests of the country.
He (Hr. F.) believed that Sir John Bowring was driven
from the carrying out of his own natural good intentions
by those pernicious influences with which he was sur-
rounded.
Everyn Inrepresentatives
svhasheedoeof opinion was there ; and it wasfall the high principles held in that
majority of Tuesday night there were
therefore evident that nothing but the force of truth and
honest conviction could have brought together such a body.
on in China. The only honour they
(Hear, hear.) There was no honour in such a war as they
were now carrying
could get from it was to stop it practically at once.
Sir F. BARING said ho had heard from all sides, with
much pleasure, satisfaction expressed hi regard to the in-
tentions of the Government to appeal to the country, and
he was sure that no attempt would be made to throw any
Unnecessary opposition in the way of the Government. In
such cases as that of the resent defeat of the Government
they always heard the same cry raised of a conspiracy of
parties. He could only say that he never gave a vote with
more personal pain, nor none with a clearer conscience;
and if the time were to come again, and if it was the last
vote he could ever give, he would give that vote with the
were to go to the country upon
a question as perfectlthe policy of her Majesty's Go-
vernment, nsttmh eennto, bo re rather whethertrnhdc lord,
thatsty (Hear.) He would venture to
a they w
of Sir John Bowring, was to have
the approval of the people of this kingdom—he would ask
the noble lord, under such circumstances, to inform the
house whether Sir John Bowring was to continue in his
plhaacrel of that functionary; but the feeling was
anything present hear.) He did not wish to say
strongly impressed on his mind that so long as the carry-
ing out of the instructions of the Government were en-
trusted to his hands, all the conciliatory efforts of the
Government would be in vain. Although they hal
heard many gentlemen defend the proceedings in a legal
point of view, except on the Treasury bench, and
hardly even there, was there a man who ventured
to support the course taken by Sir John Bowring ?
(Hear, hear.) He would ask, then, the Government to
declare whether, in the face of such facts, they intended
to retain Sir J. Bowling in his present position? He did
not think that the fortunes of this country, the fate of
thousands, and the questions of war and peace, should any
longer bo entrusts(' to the care of Sir J. Bowring.
Mr. BENTINCK said—l will not detain the house for
more than a 'moment. The right hon. gentleman opposite,
the member for the University of Oxford, after indulging
a great deal on the subject of combination, did me the ho-
nour to refer to some remarks I had made, Which he as-
cribed to what he was pleased to call my lively imagina-
tion. Sir, I will only say that I shall receive with due
respect any statement of the right hon. gentleman as to
the origin and character of party combinations, relying
uon his exerence in such matters. (Hear, hear. I
only regret that the right hon. gentleman did not gee step
further and tell us whether, at this moment, he really
wished to carry this combination to a more substantial
conclusion. (Laughter.) I have only one word more to
say. If it be my good fortune to meet the right hon.
gentleman again within the walls of this house at a future
period—l say it without meaning him any disrespect or
discourtesy—I hope we shall meet, as we do now, on op.
posite side,. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) If that should
belay fortune, it is possible I shall again have to remind
him of the remarks be has made to-night upon the subject
of political combinations. (Cheers.)
Lord PA IsMERSTON—Sir, with regard to the desire
expressed by the right hon. baronet the member for Car-
lisle, that I should enter into an explanation upon subjects
tceornanaerctficada
nwciet,h ahxaavtel on
only ,a nt-01
sayw t h
with the
I d estimateslnat
thinkand mat-
finance, thatat-
the present is an appropriate one for going into such a
question. My right hon, friend the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer will, to-morrow, in committee of ways and means,
give every explanation that can reasonably be asked for in
that direction.

' previous concert with the right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for Buckinghamshire; and which I think will be con.;
sidered by the latter as an unfortunate omen of the co-
operatiou—if it is to be one—which is to complete the
combination between him and the right hon. gentleman
the member for the University of Oxford. (Laughter.)
But, air, I said nothing to-night in regard to combinations
or conspiracies that could give offence to any man I
stated merely a fact, which you may call a combination,
or, indeed, you may describe it as an accidental and for-
tuitous concurrence of atoms. (Great laughter.) You may
call it, too, an accidental meeting of different gentlemen
in the same lobby. (Hear, hear.) But when gentlemen
find themselves voting in the same lobby, surely it is
not unnatural to find themselves uniting together to form
an administration. (Cheers.) Now, I did not mention
this as any reproach. I stated it, on the contrary, as a
fact, while agreeing with the right hon. gentleman the
member for Buckinghamshire in the principle he has laid
down, that it is not inconvenient or injurious to the coun-
try to prepare in time for a great change, and that thero
must be elements to form another Administration if the
country should think we do not deserve its support. I
therefore think that much which has fallen from the right
hon. gentleman was inappropriate to this occasion. (Hear.)
My noble friend the member for the City, always disposed
to follow in the foootsteps of that statesman to whom
formerly he gave so constant a support, has told us that Mr.
Fox on some occasion called a dissolution a "penal" disso-
lution ; and my noble friend, following this precedent,
thinks this a penal dissolution—a punishment of the House
of Commons. (Laughter.) Sir, that is a strange doctrine of
those who think they are speaking the sentiments of their
constituents, and only re-echoing the opinion of the country
—(he”r, hear)—of those who think that this judgment is
identical with the judgment of the country. Why, so far
from their looking at a renewed intercourse with their con-
stituents as a punishment, they ought to interpret it as a
triumph, and rejoice at the opportunity of coming back to
this house streng.hened and supported in their antagonism
to the Government by the recorded opinion of those who
return them to Parliament. (Laughter, and "hear, hear.")
Well, sir, so much for the dissolution. The right hon.
gentleman the member for the University of Oxford,
amongst others, charges her Majesty's Government with
having entered into a Chinese war without the sanction of
Parliament. Sir, we entered into no Chinese war.
Mr. GLADSTONE--I never said so. (Cheers and coun-
ter cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. gentleman might
not have intended to say it.
Mr. GLADSTONE —I said a Persian war. (" Hear,"
and "No, no.")
Lord PALMERSTON—WeII, lam very glad that which
the right hon. gentleman conveyed to our ears was not in
his mind--(laughter)—for it would have been smolt prepos-
terous statement, as every one knows that those events in
China happened not only without our previous knowledge,
but that we were as much surprised at the announcement
of those occurrences as the right hon. gentleman, or any
other person who had perhaps learned them for the first
time by the papers cad despatches which have recen`ly
been published. (Hear.) As regards those operations, the
house has undoubtedly a right to ask what is the intended
policy of her Majesty's Government ? (Hear.) Now I think
there is to change, and there can be no change, in the
policy of her Majesty's Government. The, policy of her
Majesty's Government, as much in China as elsewhere, is
security for the lives and properties of British subjects--
to maintain the rights of this country, as arising out of
treaty obligations—to endeavour by negotiation either to
conclude existing relations, or to restore those relations of
which recent unfortunate events have brought about a
rupture. (Hear.) It will be our duty, as has been said by
my right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty, to
take such measures as will insure every possible exertion
Ito afford security to British residents in China. (Hear.)
No one knows better than the right hon. baronet the mem-
ber for Carlisle that that is an important matter, requiring
great care ; for he has on former occasions, if not on this—
I will not say magnified the danger to which British inte-
rests are exposed, but said that those interests are so varied
and scattered that they require the most carefully devised
measures for their protection. (Hear.) I shall repeat what
was stated in the course of the debate the other night, that
our intention, even before this outbreak, was, in conjunc-
tion with the Government of France, and if possible, as
we hoped, with the Government of the United States, to
endeavour to procure, by negotiation with the Court of
Pekin, an improvement in the state of our relations with
the Chinese Every one will admit that if an improvement
in these relations could be obtained it would be a gaeat ad-
vantage to civilisation, and conduce very mush to the inte-
rests of British industry. I allow that this is a difficult mat-
ter ; and the difficulty must be increased by the unfortunate
events that have lately occurred. (Hear.) Without stating
anything precise—and I do not think the house will expect
that I should do so—l may say that the subject is still
under the consideration of her Majesty's Government;
and I am bound to add that it must necessarily be a sub-
ject of serious deliberation on the part of her Majesty's
Government who the person is to be to whom shall be com-
mitted so grave and important a duty. (Hear, hear.) It
must, I think, strike every one that if a person could be
found who could start from these shores imbued with the
feelings of the British Government and the recipient of
their further instructions, a person of that sort would
have more weight with the Chinese than any person now
in Chita. (Hear, hear.) In saying that I hope the house
will allow me to add that I am by no means underrating
the merits of Dr. Bowring—(ironical cries of " Hear,
hear")—to whom I think the greatest injustice has been
done—whose merits have been disparaged to a degree that
astonished me. At the same time her Majesty's Govern-
ment cannot shut their eyes to the gravity and importance
of the matter, and to the fact that it will be their duty to
select for these negotiations—if it take plade—such a per-
son as they think moat capable of conducting them on the
part of this country. (Hear, hear.) I trust, sir, that this
is as much as the house will expect. I say our policy is
the same. That policy is to maintain our rights, defend
our fellow-subjects, and improve our relations with China;
and I hope it will be found that in selecting means for the
fulfilment of these ends we shall have a due regard to that
duty which we owe to the people of this country. (Hear.)
Mr. SPOONER was of opinion that no consideration
ought to be allowed to interfere with the recall of Sir J.
Bowring. The noble viscount said Sir John was unjustly
used; but what did he say to that false statement in which
he declared that the Chinese were perfectly right in what
they did—that the Arrow was not entitled to any protec-
tion, while a few days afterwards he declared that the
Chinese were wrong? Sir J. Bowring had disgraced the
character of this country. The noble viscount would
never carry with him the confidence of the country as long
as he maintained in his post an official who had disgraced
himself by a falsehood, and had put a stain on the British
character.
Mr. R. KER said that his duty was to look for Conser-
vatism where he could find it, and if he could find it on
the opposite (the Ministerial) benches he felt bound to
adopt it, and not ally himself with parties exhibiting such
discordant elements as those who opposed the noble lord
at the head of the Government. (Hear.)
FINANCIAL PROPOSITIONS OF THE GOVERN-
MENT.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the debate bad assumed to so great an .extent the charac-
ter of an adjourned debate upon China that he had• ab-
stained from rising at an earlier period. He wished now
to give notice that to-morrow he should make the same
proposition to the House with regard to the income-tax
for the ensuing year, which he had already announced,
omitting, however, any proposal with respect to the two
subsequent years. He did not desire to ask the house to
agree to anything that was not necessary for the ensuing
year, and he should therefore move to-morrow for the re-
duction of the income-tax for the next year from 16d. to
7d. for incomes above 1501., and SJ. for incomes between
1501. and 1001. It would be unnecessary to propose a re-
solution in Ways and Means, as no new charge could ba
laid on, and to-morrow ho would move for leave to kin.'
in a bill to carry out the proposition he had mentioned.'
With regard to tea on l sugar, he should confine his pro-
posals to the next current year, and he should move to-
morrow the rates of duty that he proposed to adopt for
next year.
Sir J. GRAHAM took it for granted that the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer would not divide the, house to-mor-
row night on these proposals.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
to go into Ways and Means to-morrow upon the sugar
duties, and to make this the first order.
Mr. GLADSTONE could not suppose his right hon.
friend intended to move at night the resolution he had
placed in the hands of members only the same morning.
Such a course would bo entirely contrary to Parliamentary
usage.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not
press his motion to-morrow night if he thought it would
be regarded as a surprise, but he did not propose any de-
viation from the scheme he had already announced, with
one slight exception. He proposed tbat the duty upon tea
should be ls. sd. next year, and that the sugar duties
should remain exactly as they stood for the ensuing year.
As this was proposing no material change he did not see
how his right hon. friend could assume that the house
would be taken by surprise.

Mr. GLADSTIJNE ^submitted that the proposal as .to
the tea duties was really the corner-atone of the whole
matter. (" Order !")
The SPEAKER said the right hon. gentleman might
put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but
there being no question before the house he must go on
with the paper of the day. After the right hon. gentle-
man's motion was put it would not be competent for him
to make a speech when there was no motion before the
house.

The subject then dropped.
LAND TAX.
Mr. MA.CKINNON moved for a select committee to
consider the expediency of allowing a further redemption
of land tax, and also whether by any other means this tax
-might be made more beneficial to the revenue of the coun-
try, and to the reduction of the national debt. He hoped
that the GoverAment would not refuse him the committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER asked the
hon. gentleman to consider, after the statement which had
been made that evenins., if it would be worth his while to
press the motion on the house? It would not be easy to
find 14 members to attend under present circumstances.
He would suggest this hon. friend whether he would not
postpone his motion to a more fitting time.
Mr. MACKINNON felt the difficulty attending the
motion at the present time, but ho hoped a future oppor-
tunity would bo at:fit-clod him.
Motion withdrawn.

by Mr. F,x ; it was resisted to the last extremity with
respect to'the passing of the Mutiny Bal in 1784, and with

all respect for that Treat constitutional authority, I do

not think that example is a precedent which C;irglit to
be followed. (Hear, hear.) That resistance was pushed
to the last extremity ; but the patriotism of Mr.
Fox and those who adhered to him, then constituting a
majority of this house, seeing inevitable confusion and
mischief to the state as the result of persevering in this
measure, they gave way, and allowed the Mutiny Act to
pass. This gave to their opponent, Mr. Pitt, an im-
mense advantage ; their protracted resistance placed
him in power, which he retained fur years; and the
party of which Mr. Fox was the distinguished leader
lost much of the power and pre-eminence which until
then they had enj•)yed. I think, therefore, both on con-
stitutional grounds, and with reference to txemple, tbat
any such opposition to the passing of the Mutiny Bill
ought carefully to be avoided. And therefore I entirely
concur in the course proposed by the noble lord (Rus-
sell), that every facility-should be given for passing the
Mutiny Bill for any period lass than a year. But the
Mutiny Bill is necessarily based, with reference both to
the marines and the army, upon the number of men to
be voted by this house. With reference to the navy es-
timates, as to the force proposed, I should entertain not
the least objection to vote the Mutiny Bill, not for a
portion of the year, but fur the whole. With reference
to the army, I certainly entertain the opinion that the
force is larger than can be required, considering the state
of profound peace which now happily exists in Europe,
and with tho exception of the war in Persia—if it be
still an exception—and of the China war, the sub-
ject of the recent debate. But, confining our view to
Europe, and to the peace which prevails in the western
world, I think that the force proposed is larger than the
nocee,ity requires. If we are to takt thst force with re-
ference to Persia and China, I sholild demur t) being
concluded by any such necessity to vote so large a force.
it, meet be remembered that the force stated is the

JUDGMENT 3 EX ECUT [ON.
The order for the committee cu this bill was discharged
ou theihioiltrtpassed.MEMßEß
motion e A
throughi r. Ctto T d oln h
A TFt Utualitli pte
eh.
Au The.o
house be counted,
and there being only 28 members present, the house ad-
journed at fire minutes past eight.

Sir J..ORAIIAM—IIas he given notice?
Lord PA.LMERSTON—Yes.
Sir J. GRAHAM— That is only the ordinary notice.
lied he not better give a fresh notice?
Lord PALHERSTON—My right hon. friend will give
a proper notico. A. great deal has been said this evening
upon the one question, that it looked more like the pro-
longation and continuance of the debate upon China than a
debate which naturally arose out of my statement. Sir, it
was not nay intention to allude to the debate of last Tues-
day, nor will I do'so now. I cannot, however, help ob-
serving that the tone adopted by some hon. members to-
wards the Government appears to me a departure from
that whichought to characterise our proceedings. (Hear,
hear.) I must say, in one respect, that the right hon.
gentleman the member for the University of Oxford has,
to a certain degree, negative.l the charge of combination
between him and the right hon. member for Buckingham-
shire, because combination implies to some extent a simi-
larity and identity of feeling. Now, the right hon. gentle-
man the member for Buckinghamshire, in what he stated,
spoke with a calmness of temper—(hear, hear,)—and with
a statesmanlike view of a groat occasion, which I think did
honour to himself and the party to v'hich he belonged.
The right hon. gentleman the member for the University
of Oxford was, however, carried away by a fit of itnpetuo.
sity and excitement, whicll certainly did not betoken ?JO'

The suspension we announced yesterday of Messrs.
Copland, Barnes, and Co., provision merchants. They
were an old and respectable firm, and their difficulties
are attributed to heavy losses on a contract for victual-
ling the steamers of the Royal Mail Company, espe
cially on the ictercolonial rout,s. The amount of their
liabilities has not transpired. AccA.ding to some ac-
counts it is about 40,0001.
PRISON DISCIPLINE.—We understand that Sir George
Grey has just made the following changes in the prison
districts :—The Home District has been discontinued.
Scotland, with the English counties north of the Hum-
ber and the Mersey (including the counties of York and
Lancaster), is henceforward to be called the Northern
District), under Sir John Kincaid. The other English
counties are divided into a Central and a Southern Dis-
trict—the firmer under Mr. H. P. Voules and the latter
under Mr. J. G. Perry, inspectors of prisons.
LANCASHIRE AND YORKSHIRE IZAILWA.Y.—The half-
year:y meeting was held on Wednesday at Manchester, Mr.
W. Stuart presiding. A dividend of 21. 104. per share
on the 1001. stock, and the respective dividends due on
the guaranteed shares was declared,