The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-27 00:00:00

here as elsewhere. There was a vast pool of stag-
nant water—a reservoir of contagion—in Lamb's-field,
and a landowner in the neighbourhood used a stagnant
ditch to keep the boys out of his fields, and save the ex-
pense of a fence, although he thus spread disease through
the neighbourhood. Those were things that ought not
to be delayed. It was the opini,as of Sir Robert Smirke,
and others, that the Government could form a general
plan which could be easily and effectually acted upon.
It was said that these evils were the necessary atten-
dants upon poverty. But he denied that it was so, and
the report of Dr. Arnott showed that the mortality in
the great manufacturing towns, such as Manchester,
Glasgow, &c., was nearly double in seasons of abundant
work and wages, than what occurred in seasons
of scarce work and scarcity of food. Here he
would refer with pleasure to what occurred in
Dundee, and which was highly creditable to the indus-
trious artisans of that place. A Mr. Simpson, a gentle-
man of great talents and benevolence, delivered lectures
to them upon the importance of air, cleanliness, &c. to
health. The consequence was, that those artisans united
to establish baths for their own use. He hoped that this
example would be followed elsewhere. (The Noble Marquis
then read statistical calculations by Mr. M'Culloch, Mr.
Lewis, and Mr. Hawkesley, to show that in the fifty
towns already referred to, there was a loss of 12,000,0001.
per annum occasioned by sickness alone ; and if the
metropolis and other towns were added to the list, the
whole loss to the labouring class from contagious disease
alone, arising from this neglect, would be upwards of
30,000,0001) In Preston, out of eighty cases of fever, it
appeared from the report of the medical gentlemen, that
four slept in one bed, and only thirty-five had separate
beds for each patient. He admitted that while the la-
bouring classes were obliged to lodge in this way, it
would be of little use to attempt to improve their
physical condition. And it appeared, from the reports,
that no amelioration could take place in their condition
until there was some limitation as to hours. Until that
could be effected, the females of the labouring classes
could not attend to domestic duties, or be fitted to pre-
serve their homes healthy and comfortable. In Ashton-
under-Lyne, Lord Stamford inserted in his leases clauses
to enforce certain sanatory regulations. But, notwith-
standing that advantage, it appeared, from the evidence
of Mr. Colecott, that the mortality of children was
greater in Ashton-under-Lyne than in any of the other
towns, occasioned by the unavoidable neglect of the
mothers, who were at work in the factories. The remedy
for this would be, obviously, that the mother should
work fewer hours of the day, and sacrifice a portion of
the wages, to attend to her domestic duty. Forty years
ago, all those evils were shown to exist in Liverpool, by
Dr. Duncan, who pointed out the natural remedies. Yet
at thiß 11,10,1Y1e1/ t Liverp..l (tie uehea,lthiest
town of all. He had endeavoured, and lie
hoped successfully, to prove that there ought
to be no further delay. He trusted that their Lordships
would show that after two years they had not repented
of their good intentions. He would not interfere in their
legislation upon this subject, because he was convinced
that any measure must be taken up and carried out by
the Executive Government in order to be effective. He
therefore entreated them now, at the end of the session,
before they returned to their own splendid homes, to
approach the Sovereign, and assure her that " you retain
your sympathy with the most patient, most industrious,
most neglected,land sufferingof her Majesty's subjects."—
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Marquis concluded by moving
an address to the Crown, praying her Majesty to order
a measure to be introduced on th subject of the sanatory
condition of the people early in the next session.
The Duke of BUCCLEUCH was conscious of the
great importance of this subject. But he did not
think that the Government was to blame for
the delay that had taken place. The Bill brought
in by the Noble Marquis passed through this House, but
was dropped in the other. After that the present Go-
vernment appointed a Commission of Sanatory Inquiry,
and the Commissioners had discharged the duty assigned
to them with great care and assiduity. He could not
admit that the time spent in that inquiry was wasted.
They had directed their attention to the laws already in
existence bearing upon the sanatory condition of towns,
and they had found that there could be a great deal
more clone under the existing laws than had been done.
For instance, with respect to the sewerage. There were
many parts of the metropolis in which the sewerage was
excellent; in others, it was very defective. But he be-
lieved that the Commissioners were in doubt whether
they had the power of making new sewers, thinking
that their powers were limited to the repairing of old.
sewers. The Commissioners had arrived at the conclu-
sion that street sewerage was of little use without house
drainage; whereas, in many places, there were good
sewers running down the middle of the streets without
any communication with the houses. Another subject to
which they had attended was the supply of water—
a subject of the greatest importance to the health of
towns. They found that in some parts of the metropolis
the deficiency was disgraceful. Mr. Hawkesley had
shown them that the people of Nottingham were sup-
plied abundantly with water at the expense of only ld.
per week for each family. The water was wanted not
for domestic purposes only, but for cleansing the drains
and sewers.—(llear, hear.) In Islington a very excel-
lent plan was adopted for " plushing" the sewers with
water and thoroughly cleansing them. But in other
places some strange regulations were in force respecting
the sewers. It was positively forbidden to sweep into
the sewers any portion of the filth of the street ; and it
was also strictly forbidden to make any communication
between the cess-pools and the sewers.—(Hear, hear.)
These were matters which called for the interference of
the Legislature. But there was great difficulty in dealing
with these subjects. Fur instance, there were, some time
ago, 30,000 persons living in cellars in Liverpool. Now
the buildings in Liverpool and the neighbourhood in-
creased in fitir proportion to the increase of the popula-
tion. Yet if these 30,000 persons were ejected from the
cellars they could find no place to go to. Their present
dwellings were bad enough ; still it would be worse to
have no roof over them at all. However, a Bill was
passed for the purpose, and on the Ist of July they
ought to have been all ejected ; but it could not be done,
and the law was inoperative. Nor was it in those poorer
neighbourhoods alone in the metropolis and the large
towns that the people were packed more closely than
they ought to be. It was proved before the Committee
that in the immediate neighbourhood even of Grosvenor-
square people were crowded together in one room, and
in one bed, to the great injury of morals as well as of
health. He mentioned this to show the great difficulty
of legislating on these subjects. Perhaps one of the
greatest difficulties in all sanatory regulations was its
expensiveness. It had been suggested that much
might be done to get over that difficulty by
a consolidation of the rates. On this subject and
others, such as the supply of water and the construc-
tion and management of sewers, the most valuable in-
formation had been offered to the Commission by Dr.
Arnott, Mr. Hawkesley, and the other gentlemen ex-
amined. Indeed, those gentlemen had received the
thanks of the functionaries who were engaged in France
in similar inquiries. A further cause of delay was the

necessity for a complete survey, before any practical
measure should be taken, and that requisite would be

found in the Ordnance survey, which was now in
progress. He would not trespass longer on the time of

the House, although there were many points in the
Noble Marquis's speech which were well worthy of their
Lordships' deep consideration. He would only observe
that the mortality of children in the manufacturing
towns was occasioned, not by the want of ventilation,
but by the excessive administration of opiates to keep
them quiet in the absence of the parents. With regard
to the address proposed by the Noble Marquis, he was
sorry he could not support it, for he did not see that it
could effect any good, whereas it seemed to be a censure
upon the Government for alleged delay.—(Hear, hear.)
No man could be more anxious than he was to promote
sanatory measures, but it was necessary to take time for
the preparation of measures, so as to avoid such a failure
as occurred in the case of Liverpool, when a sanatory
act, obtained at great expense, had proved quite inope
rative. He believed that within a reasonable time the
Commission would complete their report, so that early
next session it would be in the power of the Govern-
ment to propose some measures, founded on the report,
to either this or the other House of Parliament. He
would rrove the previous question..
A messenger from the Commons brought up the Joint-
Stock Companies Regulation Bill and several other
Bills.

The Marquis of NORMANBY did not think that the
Noble Duke had made out a sufficient reason for the

delay of the report. However. as he had the expecta-
tion held out that sanatory measures founded on the re •
port would be laid before Parliament next session, he
would not press his motion, but would leave it in their
Lordships' hands.

The l)uke of WELLINGTON said that the Govern-
ment were not to blame for the delay. When the Noble
Marquis brought forward his sanatory measures, being a
Minister of the Crown, he (the Duke of Wellington) and
those who were now in her Majesty's Government, sup-
ported the Noble Marquis.—(Hear, hear.) No time had
since been lost ; and, under these circumstances, be
thought the House might have been spared the pain of
being called upon to vote an address, which could not be
looked upon as any other than a censure on the Govern-
ment, who had applied themselves earnestly to the

subject.
The Marquis of NCItMANBY had no intention o
casting censure upon the Government.
The previous question was then carried, and the ad.
dress was lost.

The Bills on the table were advanced a stage.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of,

anci&-i-icUseidjourned at Nine o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 26.
SAVINGS BANKS BILL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Colonel RUSHBROOKE thought that 31. 6s. Bd. was
little enough.
Mr. B. DENISON hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would adhere to his
proposition.
Mr. HAWES moved that 31. 6s. Bd. be substituted
for 31.55.
Lord CLIVE supported the amendment.
Mr. lIUME said that if the Right Hon. Gentleman
made the minimum interest 21. 18s. 4d., instead of the
maximum 3/., it would leave a margin of 6s. Bd. for the
management.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
not agree to the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Montrose. He thought it would prevent the establish-
ment of new banks.
Mr. B. DENISON did not think that a difference
of Is. Bd. would prevent the establishment of new
banks.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME was opposed to any maximum. He did I
not see why the banks should not pay 31. 4s. if they
could afford it.—(Hear.)
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 2O
Against it 5l
Majority —3l I