The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-17 00:00:00

IRISH POOR-LAW.

Lord NAAS gave notice that on that day month he
should call the attention of the House to the working of
the Irish poor-law.
PACKET STATIONS ON THE IRISH COASTS.

Mr. HENRY HERBERT gave notice that on that
day month be should call the attention of the House to
the importance of establishing mail-packet stations oa
the south and west coasts of Ireland."
MILITARY KNIGHTS OF WINDSOR.

Colonel SALWEY gave notice that on Thursday h•
should move fir a return of the sums expended on the
building for the Military Knights of Windsor.
EIGHT SHILLING DUTY ON CORN.

Mr. H. BERKELEY postponed, on behalf of his
hon. relative, Mr. G. Berkeley, the motion for a reim-
position of an Bs. duty on corn until the 18th of May.

TOBACCO.

Colonel DUNNE gave notice that on an early day he
would move that the House resolve itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole House to consider the laws
relative to the admission of tobacco into this country.
lONIAN ISLANDS.

Mr. HUME gave notice that on this day week he
would move the appointment of a Committee to inquire
into the late cases of :riot and to proclamation of mar-
tial law in the lonian Islands.
IRISH CHURCH.

Mr. ROEBUCK gave notice that on *his day vitt3k he
would propose that the Rouse take into its consideration
the state of the Irish Church, with a view to the promo-
tion of the well-being of the people of that country.

WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 17, 1850

i pair of boots and then put them into the post-office,
I they wculd go as a newspaper.—(Lauglia r.) It was
well known that Savory, the silversmith, was able to
send his catalogue of plated goods through
the Post-office by getting it stamped as a
, newspaper. It might be said that the tax on newspapers
was a political question, and that its tax ought to be
maintained in order to keep newspapers respectable. He
would relate a circumstance which showed what security
it afforded for that purpose. There was a paper called
Sara Sly, which lived by libelling individuals; and
amongst other persons it libelled a clergyman at
Barking, by stating that he had been guilty of
some improper communication with one of his female
servants. The Solicitor of the Stamp-office was written
to, and that gentleman (Mr. Keogh) wrote in reply that
" the paper called Sam Sly was not liable to
the newspaper stamp." If libelling individuals was
not news, and that of the worst description, what was
news? But according to the solicitor of the Stamp-
office they might actually circulate a paper like Sam
Sly without being liable to the stamp duty.
Where, then, was their security for respectability?
With respect to scientific publications, although they
contained matter which might savour of news, still the
details assumed much of the character of a review.
Now, considering the enormous penalties involved in
breaches of the Stamp Act, he (Mr. Gibson) thought
something more definite than speaking about articles
which "savoured of news" should be given far the re-
gulations of persons liable to these penalties. He hoped
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would
be more explicit, because the statute was a penal statute.
He had been in correspondence with the proprietor of a
small publication at Greenock, who had fallen upon an
ingenious mode of evading the Stamp Act. The person
informed him that he was prosecuted for an infringe-
ment of the Stamp Act, and was subjected to pay a
penalty of 1001., being 201. far each of live numbers.
Having studied the Act very carefully, be found that
printing on cloth—(Hear, hear)—was not provided for;
and, therefore, with the view of keeping within the law
he resolved to use an inferior and more expansive me-
dium. He had received a letter that morning, from the
same person, explaining that he had appealed against
tho 'meaty to the proper authorities, and that the fine
had been remitted. The name of the publication
bad been changed, in consequence of what had oc-
curred, to the " Greenock News Club." (A copy of this
publication, which appeared to be of the size of Cham-
bers's Journal, and printed upon cotton, was produced by
Mr. Gibson, and handed, amidst some merriment, to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, who scrutinised it with
sonic interest) Now, he would say, enforce your law.
It was fatal to select particular cases, because it placed a
censorship in the authorities of Somerset House as to
what constituted a newspaper and what did not. If the
House was not prepared to tolerate teat principle, let
one of two things be done—reveal the stamp duty or
enforce it—enforce it fairly and indiscriminately. Let
there be no evasion ; let all bear the burden. If that
was not to be done, do not let the House place itself in
that other predicament of erecting and maintaining a
censorship in Somerset House. These were the grounds
upon which he called upon Hon. Gentlemen to vote for
the repeal of the stamp duty. The revenue might be
350,000/., but the whole cf that sum would not be lost by
repeal. All which went through the Post office would
still pay the duty. Mr. Rowland Hill calculate.' that of
86,000,000 of stamps printed, 66,000,000 were trans-
mitted by post. He (Mr. Gibson) would not say that as
many would be sent through the post as were now rent
were the duty repealed, but it was fair to presume that
a considerable portion would continue to be
transmitted. All that he asked the House to do was to
sacrifice a portion of the 350,0004, and thus confer a
great boon end advantage upon the groat body of the
people, by circulating cheap newspapers among them.
There was no reason why newspapers should not be as
cheap in England as in other countries. The case of
America was well known. There was no reason why
the working man in this country should not obtain, un-
der the new order of things, a faithful abridgment of
the news and occurrences t f the day at the same cast
that he paid for publications of a less useful kind. By
means of a better class of newspapers working men
might be taught useful hints as to the best means of get-
ting employment and of earning a livelihood, and by
this means the mistakes and misconceptions which had
in several instances occurred—such, for instance, as on
the subject of machinery—would be avoided. Correct
ideas, too, on the subject of factory legislation, would
be circulated. He believed that cheap newspapers would
be of infinite advantage in the discussion of questions
affecting labour and employment. Let bins say one
word in reference to the law. A man was not allowed
to plead ignorance of the law. If so, why were
steps taken to prevent men from knowing the law
by excluding them from all knowledge of what
occurred in courts of justice ? He would contend that
cheap newspapers contained the best and most practical
mode by which that information could be communicated.
Few could study Blackstone or Coke, or other learned
authorities; but the proceedings in police-courts and
courts of justice were calculated to yield warning and
instruction. On these grounds, then, he did hope that
he should have a favourable consideration, on the part
of the Government, of the newspaper stamp, as well as
of the duty on paper.—(Hear.) With respect to the
next resolution of the series, he hardly felt himself at
liberty to enter upon it, inasmuch as it was in the hands
of his Hon. Friend the Member far Dumfries (Mr.
E wart), who had paid great attention to the subject.
He (Mr. Gibson) had placed the subject of the duty on
advertisements in his motion, as corning under the ge-
neric term of " tixes on knowledge," and without it his
motion would have appeared incomplete.—(Bear.) It
was, Wee'', a tax full of inequalities, and one that
pressed very unfairly upon the poor; making, as had
often been said, the poor servant in want of a place pay
as great an amount for an advertisement as was paid by
the rich proprietor for the sale of his estate.—
(Hear, hear.) Tbey both paid ls. 6d, in the
shape of advertisement duty. lie remembered that
Mr. James Mill had pat this question of an advertise-
ment duty very clearly and strongly when he said that
the old fashion used to be to advertise all our wares by
means of the public cries, and supposed the case of an
exciseman stepping up to him when he was about to
announce some important event necessary to be known,
such, for instance, as the loss of a child and any such
circumstance, and telling him to stop, for that he must
not say a word on the matter he was about to announce
until he should have paid eightccupence into the public
exchequer.—(Hear, hear.) This advertisement duty
would have amounted to a tax upon speech. What
would have been said if the excisemen had really stepped
forward in such a case and asked for 1 s. 6d.? Why, he
would have been scouted—(Hear, hear)—and people
would have almost been tempted to have had recourse to
physical force to get rid of him. Our advertisement duty
operated, too, 63 a tax upon charity; for one could not
subscribe 10s. to a ragged school without some portion
of the money going to the State.—(Hear, hear.) People
did not know that when they were giving their money
iTs aidhe cr ohp fat
not the
Chancellor
toi go rr e
that a
of
fExhibition
the
object
B x c
went
Exchequer,
oan f l
ut
ertBsl ,
0, t
wheno partp
complaints
Exchequer. f t h c
i r
were made on the subject of this duty, said,
" True, but the advertisement duty brings us 153,000/.
a year." The Right Hon. Gentleman, however, ought
to deduct that which he himself had to pay in the shape
of advertisement duty, for he, too, had to advertise, like
the rest of them. And, after all, what was this sum of
100,000/, or 150,0004, or whatever it was, in comparison
with the wrong that was thereby done to the people,
the injury to literature, and the cruelty to those wild
were in distress.—(Hear, hear.) The Daily News, not
lung since, proposed, he understood, to give a list of all
sales that had passed, and all the sales to come, just as
all the papers published accounts of where the hounds
met, the law notices, and such other things, and which
were not what was technically termed " news," but still
information which was of use to many persons. The
Stamp-office, however, said, " You must not do anything
of the kind without paying the advertisement duty.—
(Hear, hear.) One would imagine, at the same time, that
the insertion of forthcoming sales in a newspaper was
quite as natural as the publication in the Morning Post,
Bell's Life, or any other paper, of the particulars of
sporting matters, or many other things of a far less use-
ful character. He believed that the expense of adver-
tising in the United States of America, as compared with
the cost of it in this country, was so largely against Eng-
land as scarcely to be believed by persons not acquainted
with the facts. The charge for one advertisement
in this country would be found to be six or seven
times as large as for the same thing in the United
States; and indeed he believed that the comparative
charges would be found to be, in some instances, in the
proportion of 8/. or 91. to 2001. The advertisement
duty was, in short, a fatal drawback to all trades, and
to the necessary intercourse between men, not only for
commercial, but even for social purposes.—(Hear, hear.)
His last resolution referred to a somewhat timelier
matter, but one, at the same time, of much importance,
namely, the duty on foreign books. It was true that
this duty only gave about 8,000/. a year, but it operated
as a very heavy per centage on foreign classics, and as
a great obstacle to the supply of libraries with foreign
books; and, as such were the effects of the tax, and as
it led to so much fraud, he did hope that he should
have the concurrence of the House in his opinion that
this duty should be removed from the tariff, as it was
ono of those which it had been contemplated to remove,
acting, as it did, as a great obstacle to literature and
the free circulation of books between this country and
other nations, and being attended with many practical
evils. The Right Hon. Gentleman then said, in con-
clusion, that he would proceed to place in the hands of
the Right Hon. Gentleman in the chair the first resolu-
tion comprised in his motion, viz., that on the paper
duties, hoping that it would receive the favourable con-
sideration of.the House; for it was his firm conviction
that if they did not remove these taxes, which hindered
and retarded the spread and progress of knowledge
among the great body of the people, they were laying
in store some great and serious evils that would fall on
this country, at some future time, as a not unfit retribu-
tion for their erroneous policy.—(Cheers.)
Mr. COWAN, in seconding the motion, said he was
not afraid to say, before the lauded aristocracy of En-
gland, that nearly all he possessed in the world was con-
nected with that manufacture which had been referred
to by his Right Hon. Friend in the earlier portion of
his speech. And this, perhaps, might expose him to
some disadvantage, inasmuch as that the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer might tell
him ho ought to leave well alone—that he ought, in
short, to beware of stirring in this question, as the
repeal of this tax would necessarily create greater com-
Hdpueeteiitwni oagc n, a
niogntr,tehhae(t)ewmreanytuei urn:f abaeoftrruaori edf
of
rdssuocsniaisl eat
oroeefsnutpaper,letr_ iinto
bptayrra)di
nor, even it he were, would he refrain from denouncing
this tax as one of a most injurious description, and one
in the removal of which ho would not by nay means
stand in the way.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
then, in explaining the peculiar pressure of the restric-
ti ins the, were on Ole yri?.7,,ifq-,+. re of p ,p2r. ! :
said that ti'e duty was levied tat once, and by means of .
atamps and labels that must be affixed to every paper '

parcel, however small in bulk or value ; that the
paper, when mannfactured, was subject to detention
on the premises, for the purposes of the exciseman,
for no less than eight and forty hours.—(Hear, hear.)
Many of those who then heard him might have known
what it was, when visiting the Continent, to have been
detained, if only for a few hours, in eonsequecce of the
delays caused by the passport system, now, he rejoiced
to say, passing away, in consequence of the moral mo-
mentum, it he might use such an expression, of the rail-
way train. But the law with reference to the duty on
paper compelled him (Mr. Cowan) to detain his goods
upon his premises for as long a time as would be occu-
pied in sending them to London and back.—(Hear, hear.)
Was such a system as that to bo continued ? a system,
which, after all, was more calculated to invite frauds
than to check them. The reports of the Excise Com-
missioners themselves had gone far to prove that the at-
tempt to prevent fraud by means of stamps and labels
had, on the contrary, led to frauds through the medium
of successful imitations; and as some proof of this, he
held in his hand a letter from an extensive paper manu-
facturer, who had obtained information as to a system
of fraud that was openly, and no doubt largely, prac-
tised. What he was referring to had taken Viva, in the
sister kingdom, and he hoped that Hon. .Members from
that country would not impute to him any ill-feeling
against their countrymen if he ventured to trouble the
House fir a few moments with the details of this trans-
action. The person who had written this letter to a fiend
of his said:—

" I am the person who tent seven loads of paper into
, with the same wrappers. It was long elephant.
When the first load, which was regularly charged, went
away, I sent a woman with a cloak to the stationer. As
soon as the paper arrived, several hands were pnt to to
untie it with all possible expedition. The wrappers were
tied up in bundles and handed to the woman, who male
the best of her way to the mill, where we had a load
ready of the sane weight and prepared exactly to the
same pressure, so that the wrappers exactly fitted. To
work we want with all hands we could manage, tying up,
and by the time the carter arrived were almost ready for
him. But during the time of tying up we had always
watchers out at every inlet to the premises, and if an
officer made his appearance, a e put the loose covers
away into a secure place; and as we always took the
numbers progressively, n•e entered in the sending away
book all the numbers we had hid—the numbers we bad
tied up mere standing as not being sent. But it did not
often happen that we were disturbed by an officer. The
supervisor was more troublesome. Mills more distant
from
wrappers by gig or car, or by a man on horseback. This
is DOW almost the (July wily in Which it io done_ There
is only one mill round ahJut that ventures to send
any out without covers,"

—(Hear, hear). His Right Hon. Friend had referred in
a masterly way—(Bear)—to many of the various restric•
Lions a Lich, in one way or other, operated against the
manufacture of paper: and he (Mr. Cowan) held in his
hand an address to George 111., which had been up-
wards of fify years ago printed upon paper made of
straw; and he was sure that it was only owing to the
incubus of the duty on paper that that species of ma-
nufacture did not exist in England at the present day.
—(Hear.) When he stated, however, that the cost of
the raw material was 2y. per cwt. end that the duty
upon the same was I4s. 9d.—(Hear)—he raid enough
to show the inductimeet held out to the commission of
fraud, and that the slow progress of this manufacture in
this country was not to be wondered at. The Honour
able Member here also referred to several specimens of
paper which had recently reached him, and all of which
were manufactured from indigenous vegetable materials,
not hitherto employed in this country, though in others
they were used in the paper unaeufaetere.—(Hear.)
They were composed, he added, chiefly of straw and
cereal plants; and he was persuaded that were
it not for the incubus ho had already referred
to, ;they would be able to claim the support
of the Protectionist Gentlemen opposite in favour of a
new branch of native industry in the prosperity of
which they would have a peculiar interest. Free trade
was nothing short of a mockery in this countay so
long as this system of oppressing any interest was kept
up.—(Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend had spoken
of the exportations of paper from this country, but no
such article could be found in the returns relating to
our exports. Ile had been at the trouble of making an
analysis to show the infinitesimally small amount which
paper formed us a general article of expert from this
country, even to countries where he knew there was a
great coesumption in that article; and, in doing so,
nothing had surprised him more than to find that, us re-
garded Brazil—a part of that new world called by Mr.
Canning into existt ace to redress the grievances and to
receive the produce of the old—the quantity imported
into that country (Brazil) did-not exceed in value 4,000/.
Let Hon. Members remark what was said in a letter
which hal been received by the house with which he
was himself connected. It was dated Rio Janeiro, on
the 21st of February of the present year, and the pas-
sage to which he referred was as follows:-
6' We note your wish to make a further trial of our
market, and nothing would give us greater pleasure could
seisafely recommend your doing so; but !though against
our own interest, this we cannot do, as long as expe-
rience and close_watching of the operations in the article
of paper has convinced us it is impossible for you to
compete with the French and Italians, who almost en-
tirely supply our market."

hr-.) Ho had been much disappointed at the
little progress they had been able to make towards con-
vincing the Government on this subject of the paper
duties in the various deputations which for many years
past he had accompanied to Downing-street, and at the
little sympathy they appeared to meet with at their
hands. Mr. Crompton, on the last occasion to which
he referred, laid many grievances before them in con-
nexion with different parts of this question, and particu
larly with reference to the contrast cif the position of
those manufacturers who employed hater in their manu-
facture with that of those who did not; but they were
ale ays, like au ancient people named in the book of
Exodus, sent back whenever they complained, " to their
burthens." The Chancellor of the Exchequer told them
that " he could not afford it;" but be trusted that the
result of this debate would be that they might be in-
duced to take this subject into their serous considera-
tion with a view to afford the manufacturers of this ar-
ticle, at no distant day, that relief to which they were
so justly entitled.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentle-
man, atter some further remarks, concluded by second-
ing the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he did not intend to make say objection to his
Right Hon. Friend bringing forward this motion, and
the more so as it had afforded him the opportunity of
listening to so able a speech as he had delivered on the
subject—(Hear, hear)—but he did object to his putting
arguments into his mouth which he had never used, and
which he was not now disposed to use, against the re-
peal or reduction of these duties. He by no means
should, on that occasion, nor had he ever before done so,
go into any defence of the abstract merits of this or of
any other set of taxes that pressed heavily on the people;
and he trusted he had shown ere this, that whenever he
could remove a tax that pressed upon the people he had
endeavoured to do so. It was but a very short time
since it was stated to the House that there would be a
portion of the revenue of the country which he thought
might fairly be devoted to the remission of taxer. He
then stated the taxes which he thought it would be
most expedient to remit; and he did not think that the
proposal he had made had been received with dis-
' satisfaction by the House generally; and he could
only say that the course he had adopted then he
should be 'prepared, und•-r similar circumstances. to
act upon in future.—(hear, hear.) When there
was a surplus, he had dealt with it in such a
way as he thought would be best calculated to promote
the benefit of the country generally; and he objected to
the principle of a Chancellor of the Exchequer being
called upon to pledge himself to the reduction or repeal of
any particular tax before the period arrived when he
should be able to judge of the expediency of doing so.
He thought it was far better not to commit himself by
any arguments against this or any other tax, looking at
each and every tax, in regard to the circumstances con-
nected with it, at such time as it might be in
his power to attempt its reduction. He thought,
he repeated, that it was far better to leave
all such cases utterly unprejudiced till the time
when tie, in the position he occup:e 1, was in possession
of such a surplus as he might be enabled to deal with in
the remission of public burdens. With respect to this
duty on paper, he must say, however, that on the pre-
sent occasion, as on former instances, he bad been not a
little surprised at the complaints that were made of the
injustice and pressure of the excise regulations. And for
this reason, that the excise upon paper did not interfere
in any way with the process of its manufacture. It was
constantly stated, and with much force he admitted, that
the excise on malt, on spirits, on bricks, and other
articles, interfered with the process of manufacture, so
as, in a great degree, to prevent experiments and retard
improvements in the manufacture of the articles. But
what was the opinion of the Excise Commission in re-
spect to paper ?—an opinion delivered by Sir Henry
Parnell, the chairman, than whom there was no greater
friend to freedom from restrictions of this nature in that
House.—(Cheers.) It said, " Unlike other commodi-
ties, the processes of this manufacture are exempt frome
Excise interference, to which exemption the Commis-
sioners attribute the great progress made in the modes
of manufacture, and the great improvement in the ar-
ticle itself, arising from an extensive introduction of ma-
chinery, by which the processes of making and drying
were so combined and expedited that a quantity of paper
could now be completed in a few days which formerly
would have occupied, perhaps, as many months." The
Commissioners said that the absence of excise interfer-
ence was the distinguishing mark of the excise duty on
paper, and to that was attributed all the great improve-
ments which had been made in paper, and its now greater
cheapness; and yet it was this p articular excise which was
now singled out by Hon. Members to be assailed as the
most unjust, the most obnoxious, and the most vexatious
of all the excise duties.—(Hear.) When last year he
bad the honour of seeing the deputation of paper manu-
facturers—to which the Hon. Member (Mr. Cowan) bad
alluded, as having received a most discouraging answer,
referring them to the absence of any surplus—he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) asked them whether it was
to interference with their manufacture that they (d-
-jected, or whether he could in any material degree facili-
tate its processes. What was their answer? They said
that the excise did not interfere with their manufacture,
that what they require.' was the abolition of the duty
altogether. It was true that the /lon. Member did not
complain of the weighing of the paper. When the
paper was completely made and was ready to be sent
out to purchasers, it was weighed by the exci e officers,
and for that purpose the manufacturer was obliged io
keep it a certain time on his premises. The deputetiou
from the north, however, even when inseted to state
any regulation which interfered with their business,
did not complain of this delay, hut pressed for the ab-
it ,
Member for EAuburgh went on to complain of the
heavy burden the duty was upon publications ; but

he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer, thought thsbe
he rather overrated the degree in which •ce
duty pressed upon publications. He had been toldsl,Ao
he came into the House that a most valuable book,: '"nis
Commercial Dictionary," which weighed nilb. sou s'sf
for 503., only paid 41-d. paper duty. (Loud crilesre
" Hear, hear.") Ho did not think that could ioterLeo
much with the publication of that work. The next 7.);
to which reference had been made was the dtition"o,
newspapers. There, he must say, that the Rightms-d
Gentleman had attributed to him much that he ",-ho
never said. Ho had never said that the duty t0u9,40
kept un to prevent cheap newspapers, neither barbel,
ever stisl that the stamp was a security agaiost.sAel
The Right Hon. Gentleman had displayed aOP '-fe•
of ingenuity in hunting up difficulties as to the inte,lb.o
tation of the words " news" and " occurrencieS,
01
there had been no complaints whatever of any losct.; f
inc )nveniente being felt on that ground. The Boarneo
'eland Revenue informed him that there had heed
great dissatisfaction manifested upon those points ;
t.
he was inclined to believe that the extent of the gri-e
mice rested rather in ti e imagination of the Right ";()0,
Gentleman than in the practh e of parties InoreLn•
corned in the inatter.—(Cheers.) He objected P":
pally, however, to this proposition with respect itr°oo,
bearing upon the revenue.—(Cheers.) The Right ties
Gentleman had fairly stated the amount of the u'',„-$1
embraced in his motion. His object was to term
the taxes on knowledge, and he (the Chancellor of tot
Exchequer) would not say that the time . miglitosiof
come when they would be repealed; but he must on
that it was impossible, with a due regard to the ne.no,
creditor and the public faith, to repeal them thii sertte
and that nothing could be more unwise than it",
House tr pledge itself for the next session. If ~
of
vim one thing more than another which a Cbanenito
the Exchequer was bound to do, it was never to diseot
any intended changes in taxation until the orsjithe
came at which it was regularly made public. 11°,00
Chancellor of the Exchequer) objeCted to the repeal `t
and he objected still more strongly to any prom's,fibe
pledge as to what should be done in the future• apo
duty on paper was an increasing duty; it shuovfne:sted
symptom of decline from which it mig I
ht be 111"n"rn
that the excise interfered injuriously with it. ti'ste
duced in 1840, 581,000/.; in 1841, 758,0001.; in
785,000/o and in 1849, 810,0001. The duty on °ine
papers last year was 348,000/.; on advertisettheve
163,000/o and on foreign books, 7,000/. The Pr°,i":4s,
of all the se-called taxes on knowledge was—i 3 01
1,264,0001.; and in 1848, 1,329,0001.; and he vise
prepared to sacrifice so much of the revenue.—(P's-ntl
He trusted the House would forgive him if he addrei:
it fur a motneub subjvot rho ';`;e11
propositions for the repeal of taxation which bad "", •
made within a brief period, which was made on the Ptieet
sent motion, and which was to be made on 111#19
motion which stood on the paper for that night., on
hoped he was not more nervous than Chancellors 0' no
Exchequer might naturally be expected to be 14e;
questions of taxation, or anything affecting the resellon
but ho could not look without serious anxiety %t
art
course the House of Commons seemed disposed to rite
sue on various questions connected- with taxation• h
had had the honour of holding the situation of CIO
cellor of the Exchequer for about three years hire
half, and he had the misfortune during that time, Onsin/
to deal with periods of extraordinarydepression• of
there was the famine in Ireland; next, the nerLeeelr
coremercisl panic which followed; and then the disvien
antes on the continent in 1847 and 1848. Allt,
events, over which they had no control, had a Inc/sides,
pressing effect upon the revenue, and there was, b,es; the
the large expenditure for the Kafir war, over whic'incis
House had no previo es control. Their financial Po!. tee
had now just begun to improve, and he bad heu the
pleasure that night of laying a balance-sheet 110'0
table which showed a surplus of 9,500,000/
eat'
was the first time he had been able to show 8 IO
plus, but ho declared most solemnly that theretos
greater danger when they had a surphis aegis
when they had none—(01), oh, and a laugh)—bees eat:'
deficiency created by events over which they had o°
trol was widely different, as affecting the public er';oo
than a deficiency produced by the wilful and do
conduct of the House.—(Hear, hear.) Ho bad hs; be
about a month ago that the surplus would probautrioar
1,500,000/.; and he proposed to give relief on tw°i'fan
of taxation to tho amount of 750,000/. He proposv-tee'
ther to apply 250,0004 to the purchase of that ni°s $OO
profitable annuity the Equivalent Society; and t° le 10
500,0001. to he applied to the reduction of the deb pfs
this scheme the stamp duty, which was now one•be' per
cent., was proposed to be reduced to one-quarter sad
cent.; but the House was not satisfied with that: noel
voted a further reduction, which, at the lowest
....cost:111
involved a loss to the revenue of 100.0001. 24°,",, the
Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to take off taxes the
extent of 1,300,000/, less what would be paid 1°.',0311
postage of newspapers. He would yield to no man I"terlf
desires for economy, but he contended that it was at
eft
ein
impossible this year to ;effect a further reduction °ate
peaditure to the extent of 1,000,0001. sterling, 35 4010$1
large votes had already been taken. What, then' id'
be done? Taxes of one kind or another must be (01
Is
posed to meke up the deficiency. Hon. Mew-ease
that side of the House wished to substitute direct "d 00
tion fir indirect taxation, and they therefore 13sioli'
objection to create a deficiency by abolishing inn
root taxes if it a e:e made up by direct WI,
Hunourablu Gentlemen on the other side of the Miser
knew there was no chance of re-imposing import
and they were, therefore, not indisposed to suprrt deb'
ilemen on the other side of the House in creating °. sa
ciency.—(Bear.) Each party were anxious to b°l,vhotil
opportunity of carrying out their own sehemes, Wi'"ll3o
reflecting what ould be the effect upon the House 00
Governinent, and the country. If the House by its; to
deliberate act created a deficiency, it would then he,,-001
settle how it must be made good—whether by add,itivini
direct taxation or additional indirect taxation. Justill
thought it possible that, before they were able to 05.1
that point, both sides would come to the conclusiol!l theit was far better to submit to the old burdens until ob'
Financial Minister was able to deal with the Droste
noxious of them. But what effect would this Ileveei
the public credit?—(Loud cries of " Hear, he 'sir
deficiency was bad enough when it was created biro 0,0
e
cuinstances over which they had no controle-nnee"
hear.) It was most essential that the public Credit 6 OOP'
be kept up. He did not impute to the Rig" nteline
Member any wish to impair it—any notion of °roe:,
tion had always, he was happy to say, been disc-doSr
in that House; and he did not for a moment note
its sincerity; but he was afraid, if these votes 0
agreed to, the country would be put into a 0 .;
tion from which it would take years to renultesol°
the House wilfully created a deficiency witboll; al el 4
definite and probable prospect of making it goou',olo2
would be great difficulty in maintaining the, cri as:
credit. If propositions of this kind wore carve deb
so large an amount of revenue sacrificed witliotit,teia'
nite proposal to make it good, the House wool deli'flicting, he would not say an irreparable, but
°¢soo•
gerous, wound upon the public character. "A eZr
Member for Montrose had, besides, a motion '' he
night, which would sweep away 1,500,0001. of "
venue.

Mr. iIUNIE —lt is only completing free trade., 1'0;
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUY4';/
but on Geeing, the notice he had ordered a return, aept.e
found that, it duties were remitted according tu oiler
position cf the lion. Member, the revenue would 4,ler
to the extent of 1,538,0001, which, with the ether„t 11e:
two now before the House, made up a remission o°3°
ties to the extent of 2,838,0004 lie trusted the I,jecli
would not `think him unduly anxious on this total')
but when propositions of this kind were mode 15°,i
after night—when, on a recent occasion, docel
non to repeal one single duty, which protoeie„
1,820,000/., was defeated only by the Or 8110"
possible majority—(llear, hear)—there was Illeerd" vote!
enough to excite the most serious anxiety to fin vows:
thus given without a full consideration of their „
queuces upon the public credit.—(Cheers.) The/3'of 11
the grounds upon which he resisted the motioe,„
Right lion. Friend. He thought it unwise, unit° yliP
discreditable to the character of the House to 113n;ieirt'
reduction of 1,300,0001.; and ho thought it
,tlree
though not so discreditable, for the llouse to Pleeer,
self to deal with any particular tax in the ensuie'V'i
si9n. Those must anxious for economy could 1.:100'
wish to destroy, by this course, the happy state
quillity which, by the blessing of God, had made vet
land the refuge of the world. (Cheers.) He e°llod .0510
express himself sufficiently against a course which oeto
be a political suicide. The question was not 010
matter of 10,0001. here and 20,0001. there, tltiol1)0
essentially a question touching the public credit; et
trusted, therefore, the House would neither dersosioe'
these taxes now, nor pledge itself to do so next
~
but negative the proposition of the Hoe. Merribee',.,ll/9)„
Mr. HUME said no man was more desirous the %
self of upholding the public credit, and he 1"1,t
further than the Right Hon. Baronet, and aleeptilPit;
any attempt to interfere with the claims of the 00e,
creditor would bring on the country calaraitteso pre
ti
greater. than anything hitherto heard of. But „,e1 °ll6
raises of the Right Hon. Baronet were not oily-GOO/I
he would show that the House ought to take 730.05e0
just the reverse of that which the Right Hon.
recommended. The Right Hon. Baronet said thrsb'e
he stated his proposal how the surplus was totio
with, it met with universal acquiescence.
Hume) considered the brick duty a very proper onof Op:,
repealed, but he objected to the purchasing Yes presto
part of the national debt while there were tarhim vd
ing far immediate repeal. That did appear feud to e,
error in judgment, and he said so at the drag, fjoilto
the acquiescence was not unanimous even in the" 30 t' t
, envier ott
It was absurd to apply a trifle like 500,0001.
liquidation of a debt of 900,000,000/. ;
which was insignificant as compared "" sefeid,
debt would have relieved the public t.r°nined
taxes, the repeal of which was loudly ce,be be
The Right Hon. Baronet had not stated fairly Lo ';s
tam of the finances. It was true there bat! rirhatleo"
famine, the commercial distress, and the disk'ri,,,ibt
abroad; but the Right lion. Baronet had ef„
attribute the defleiences of the revenue to taloefiti,
arose mainly from the extravagance of the o,°/niieialieg,
The revenue remained untouched and un"l elev.
The deficiency was created by the unnecessar.abt e
diture in the warlike establishments. The BILF001f,„17,
latronet had speken of this motion 13.! (e. 41
1,300 000/.; but in truth, his Right Hen. brie-detY
Gibson) only proposed to deal now with the 01. 10
saienps aed edvertisements, amounting to 300,0eutot of
deed, the speech just delivered was no replYet(:ho
the flight lien. 'Alember, which was ono et ," jee Pe.
ahl-‘, the most convincing, and the most coar'v;ciedgfic
ever heard on the subject of the taxes 0111'13.,„oert,t1p,
(Cheers.) This question was the more lyo'oettoe,
Loeauee large aims were annually spent in. el 501036
and the House was about to consider a national tenet
fir that purpose, while the abolition of tae'le
a ea'
would do more in that direction than all they eee vves ,
this expenditure, actual and proposed.
_itrc tII,Z;
.• erou tae ;,.,•1 :he
sv't,sl!l,
w, re allowed to continue. It feetel'
expending mosey in sanitary improvement and

~#

1) abolish the tax on light and air, the two greatessen-
lials to health.--(Cheers.) He impugned altogether. the
Statement that these taxes were necessary for revenue Purposes, because there were now 4,500,0001. expended
le the eetablishments of the country more than
Mom-
establish
asene:
eAtssary for the public service. He admitted those
lbere were inconsistent who voted for the
establishments
and then voted for the reduction of taxation; but he
(1111.. Hume) voted against the establishments that he
aught have a surplus to apply to the reduction of taxi-
The Hon. Member denied, however, that this
proposed reduction would be all loss to the
revenue, in
asnauch as it would confer a great boor. on ell the
used in
facking being in many instances as much as the value of
the article itself. This was particularly the case with
ICheap
harnware. Let the Government abandon its
military establishments; get rid of the African
Squadron, •which was worse than useless; pay off the
apeitrraitean squadron, and reduce the army in
otnial%sntrY
, and they would find themselves able not
o take off these taxes, but the window duty,
imposts
The 1
,of a like obnoxious character.—(Hear, h - ) light and
.oethre:r,
Hon. Baronet had alluded to his motion.
hct Iteety did the matter really stand? The House
.had-
atn
loterl the principle of free-trade, and the agricult u .
teeree,hoard World, They
been exposed to the competition of
They called upon the House to carry out
tile Principle, and he had therefore moved for a return
wn the subject. He might say en passant, on the subject
,of returns, that the great art in moving for them was to
:bring facts before members who were too lazy to look
for them theneselves—(Laaghter)—and to have facts, and
Qduads, shillings, and pence, which could not be doubted
was now r disp
u.t
ow
cd. This return shed that free trade, as it
et carried on, was fetter trade ; they had not
1 co fettered trade to free trade, and be hoped yet to bring the
'matter before the attention of the House. He entreated
l)1011w-treble Members not to listen to the request of the
ight Hon. Baronet, but to take his advice.—(Laughter)
country was borne down by its large establishments
sad
Ives suffering from excess of taxation, which
atclounted to :seven or eight millions mere per annum
t4O was necessary. Let them then a4ree to motions
*to •get rid of oimoxious taxes, and they would not only
, that. but, at the same
time,
un these burdensome establishments, MinistrylZte,elfroeertiitegthe reductions
,dad act tell .
money they would speedily reduce their es-
He should vote in favour of the resolu-
C)n and in favour of the abolition of all those unneces •
levy establiehmeats the maintenance of which might
a'eats a difficulty in the way of ng out
lieewhieh the resolution affirmedcarryHeer, hearthe.)princi-
lie' /,W &AT said that he should record his vote in
' tit
toyu
e: fh
tehe motion with as much cordiality and ala-
had ever manifested in supporting any re-
reilutiou that had been put from the chair during his ex-
iles, of the House. lie should support it, because
hadh
1, levet!, with the Right Hon. Gentleman who y
ityo,uguili_t,i
forward, in a speech of such. remarkable abi-
" It was ono of the primary duties of Government
Gtttibutsiteruct rend enlighten the .-
people. The Right Hon.
loge matt did not propose that all the taxes on know-
,a,cga'Ltua.l.ti be abolished at one blow; he did not ad-
ei• `" Luc natnedieve abolition of those imposts
the
r_
,_•ceu,,reett,nces which would cause such a loss toßt
areonet
tielun, Its had been prediet,sd'sby the Right 1141„`sanneellor of the Exchequer—a loss Hon. Baronet
0,, 4Le said was, that there was a surplus in the h
~, nia!r, and that the Chancellor could not do a better
that IL's. wiser.thing than to give the public the benefit
l'e`Z., sur t
e NU, by remitting some of the taxes on
news-
h'° isk, ' "'such, for instance, as the, stamp duty on
to
ers and the advertisement duty. It was, of courster,m-
vitaten,derstood, that the Right Hon. Gentlemanonvmuow_
if,dge". the ultimate abolition of all tho taxes
nklo.
go
farth,'r tut the measure under consideration did
mt
s_
lea hau to p!edge the House to the immediatedr. i
a 443. of variout items, which, in the aggregate,
~,ur tto Mere than 350,000L—(Hear.) The geleednteihireai:l
yeey of the attenapte which had been mad
d upon
ahrs4l')ll to reduce taxation had Produceof
property the impression that if persons
affect:l rty le
this country wished to obtain
thattbe
meer', and respect of the people, at the same time
.t
thing SubmitPtedthtehye their own possessions in security, the wises
could possibly do would be at once to
Ile did to a more direct system of taxation.—(Hear.).o
of t'°l Mean to advocate the immediate introduction
a to
wouldw Y new system of taxation, but he certainly
o!.0 the length of saying that the system
of
'come tulch had been propounded in the Case the in•
ita,,,-4X hy the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
14,-16'011h, appeared to him. to be the soundes: and the
deeldt.ildicious that could he devised, and he was! most
acine,t,LlY of opinion that the moneyed clews in thist.
alien 'Y would, bysubmitting to au increased rate. o
-4 tax • e 7 h t course which
lees anon on property, aeopt t a . .
slthei.e,at calculsted to exteed labour and to facilitate the
pelie""coce the he people.—(Hear, hear.) The soundest
hildY that Legisleturo could adopt would be to ex-
Astielai4eb°ur as far as they could, and to cheapen as
thjeet '3 Possible the means of subsistence, and these
Iron, 8 W°Lild be best attained by all no
and by placing upon pro-
relieving the people
I)ertv . i necessary imposts,
tente'ilsrger prop3rtion of taxation than it was at ef..
repaidthe a ed called upon to endure. The Government, if
the
rhT,not bring themselves to accept the motion of
Itt 'emir,: 14°11. Gentleman in its complete shape, woul
the ain.,-."0 tvell to make some approximation towards.
atatee-Illhiltion of the taxes upon knowledge. Forin:
kW ' the 4dvertisement duty only yielded 156,0001. •
~ as ther
""Y sbenna
of
confessedly a balance in the
untieqteo
olonetin'',, not a tax so insignificant in am, ye r
°r letcntka
,io Princile, be at once remitted ? Soone
bewspe;,elattil such taxes would have to be repealed—
*--ano, utY, advertisement duty, paper duty, and
for
the rnh"ureY it would be wiser and more judicious 1.
tuldlc"adtleellor of the Exchequer to remit them seriatim,
41' An 4urgrees, than to dispose of them all at the same
au•weeefut.'„a he would most assuredly have to do on
!Vl.° -r,",re.day. His difficulty would then be increased
t
gnaDll4—"',old. The tax on knowledge had beeninn,,,
Ated tlePriately termed " the window-tax of tthre m d
leil4bte sootier it was done away with the bete. The
the
' Atee:icauts of foreign countries, but more
e especiallyterms of re-
this aus, were continually sPeahine
tell4lad.eoitintrtyhe;
America almost everyone could
aforuraiiinnAummber of readersleto be found in
'llidele -4eu Might differ, and no doubt they d.id,
tin'e ;0'
adopted to the best system of national education
ohn.
'ens ins4,ll:l such a country se England; but all must
.c
saline tee opinion that it was desirable that facilities of
Iteopieattuction Should be placed within the reach of
better
'thee tll.who would thus cultivate their own minds
AYstee,'Y would be enabled to dcr ,under any scholasticthan
Are ~,e. whatsoever. The colonies were better off
In iltalifa`x° Iturselves with respect to these matters.
'ltaa, it, ' ill Nova Scotia, the circulation of newspapers '
thanth 63.Prroportion to the population, very much larger
ti• factl'uccion, a circumstance which was attributabled
*a it: that there was no stamp duty. It ghoul
teat
theyrn ic mind that newspapers were no longerr
Ivere se used to be in the time of Swift. rheY
pre
t, vatOn luxuries—they were now necessaries ;
Abe flat they were an important means of educating
'trek People was not be questioned. Judging
Lek ghat he had seen of the unstamped publicationess
,v4ict'_l4,wer nt present in the course of issue—such
weekly
"pabr ere Journal, Eliza Cook's Journal, and the
;paged cations
awnhtiicchipabtnereanthve name of Lloyd—he was nest
. . ei;,e to
,to se`l .11 °f the stainn-duiv."Hil e w resultsas bound frona
itnh ?i 0
st
toite
el‘
eoltt"ttlit that these publications were of a highly moral Alsniateter, and that they reflected credit as well on the 1408,Y of those who wrote for them as on the taste
who
Ner:fwlto patronisei them.—(Hear, hear.) Those
h
alto: of relying on the authority of Mr. Il&Culloe hese remember that that gentleman was decidedly
•loi,
abe to the advertisement duty. He (Mr. Bwart) was
%a ai'lishingsit altogether, for he was sure that no more
.e,hk:suhs would folic:4 from its abolition than those
saltn44 had resulted from the repeal of the duty upon
'That aes• When he first had the honour of a seat in
ieet to °use every almanac that was published was sub-
able Ve 4 Y. of no less than ls. 4d.; and a more des-
Aka 4 composition than the almanac of those days was
'Val }."cre to be found. It was full of silly riddles
Nitilets'a•ological calculations as to the probable
-Y. seal
destinies of the Ministers of the day.
kl.„astine-6:8 almanacs had been "damned to ever-
mitssore% 'atas.` in the " Rape of the Lock," and
It Asa were.
equally notorious in our own century.
'lO abolish? Lord A lth orp that the honour belonged
chat•;:a4l3furturac:ll::
orhst3 duty on almanacs, which
amountedmentia
The -'t)(3o/. a year. An immense improve
t_.
~... , sten it, h
,these works was. immediately percep i
4a been so progressive that he believed he
A coattt,•l warranted in the assertion that there was not
later :•7ill the world in which such valuable and such
NMI pawed4ritilia2B were published as in England. He
4tEeCod that the effect of abolishing all other
,the Upon that
would be equally beneficial. That
%stint cple oft his country would be happier and more
et presentht they would be oven better citizens than
. eletoit, better subjects, and stauncher friends to the
lightejetr property, if they were fully and fairly en-
eh the end instructed, were questions in respect o
Isinde of re could be no diversity of opinion in the
taper duty,Prjudiced men. With regard to the news-
4efitly • he considered that it was not only exceed-
esiettbriudiciotte in principle, but likewise highly in-
aceresle in operation, for local newspapers which had
Sec t tstltllY circulation by means of the post were sub-
that tire' ,`' Just as
atio much as metropolitan journals whose
1-1 was to very great extent carried on through
tiuutitel sisygenthcaZ;(4:radrinhgear.) In conclusion, he had only
toutltzt,alY connected withthe the best reeswtshicohf was
IteopWLs.cd eminently eestasineten
klrt 'he should not hesitate to give it his cordial sup-
congenial to the character of its
If_ (Hear. hear.)
fro,Ar*,,AGLlox
BY was sorry to be obliged to severd
vilaose'lat party with whom he generally voted, an
hi, 4 exertions to diminish taxation usually commanded
• neMptti)antilY and co-operation; but, being unable to
the
prA :nu what good results would be obtained, under
nietion-s ot drat
of the country, from the
I%lltly of his Right Hon. Friend, he should be toiledreluc-
thlip..l° to give his vote against it. He was
sesels..' ak himself what practical advantage would
--.144 'h4 t° tho coentry from a division on this question?
B°bllld, like to see the abolition of all taxes on know-
lirseticati he was bound to ask himself whether it was
under the present circumstances of the
101104' and if not, whether any good result would
the Itio,rcol going to a division on such a question. If
ahould°ll3lt !ion. Gentleman the Member for Manchester
Would b.! in a minority, the effect on the public mind
tou_,. very darns ins as far as the question he had
trar,,,:t at heart was cOncerned; but if, on the con-
tuld carry his motion, there could be no
dean t"het,ii
4 -v. .ol would materially damage the Government.
eo
Would stre from the Treasury Bench—lio, no; he
Mr, A ngthen it.
ji. • QION•By
bet Could be , —Well, that was a matter of opinion.
111 we,ite 'loved that the Government, so far from
the'to,,ttiki
~i,,,tii7e,(l. wool.; be benefited, he should have
i u.utioti 1 ~in l'e(;ortlinfr i, - •0f.',.-.. i,, favniu:
loaseir to b j.usuguter)— would could not bring
l'eVa that it hate any such opera-