The Sun.
London, England, 1868-04-17 00:00:00

made a secret of them. (Cheers.) Then, I say I
am in favour of the old-fashioned practice that you
should have men of integrity and ability to lead you;
and I should indeed be sorry if the time should ever
come when the people of England should say that
on account of a man's integrity and sincerity they
would not confide in him. (Cheers.) Such a time
I am sure will never come, and I am persuaded you
may confide in Mr. Gladstone ; that you may con-
fide in his integrity and in his sincerity ; and that,
supported by the people of England, he will lead us
on to victory, and make that peace of which I have
already spoken permanent between England and
Ireland. (Cheers.) When that is done we shall be
rendered stronger in every respect—stronger in our
domestic internal relations, and stronger in keeping
up the general peace of the world, as we shall move
forward against any foreign enemy, if any enemy
should dare to attack us. (Cheers.) Having this
conviction, you will allow me to call on the several
speakers who are to address you, and I hope that not
only will you give them a patient hearing, but that
you will heartily give your support to Mr. Gladstone
in his resolutions.

Mr. WEST, the Recorder of Manchester, proposed
the first resolution—" That this meeting cordially
approve of Mr. Gladstone's resolutions on the Irish
Church, and calls on all reformers to give him their
earnest support." It was with great cordiality that
he undertook the duty which was imposed on him,
and he hoped the meeting would with equal cor-
diality accept the proposition before them, as they
would thereby teach those who wished to oppose the
present great advance in the political history of the
country a lesson which they would not easily forget.
He was rejoiced to see this, the first great meeting
held on the question, assembled under such happy
auspices, and presided over by one who had led the
people of England to every great and liberal
triumph for the last half-century. (Hear, hear.)
As good wine needed no bush, he would not ven-
ture to make any observations upon the resolution,
but formally submit it;to the approval of the meet-
ing.

The Hon. A. HERBERT seconded the resolution,
and said that the days which had passed since Mr.
Gladstone framed his resolutions had been days of
anxiety and careful watching as to the way in which
the English people would accept the great appeal
which was now made to them. In all the great
centres of population and industry there was but
one feeling and one voice, and that was a determi.
nation to do justice to Ireland. There were many
calamities which might befal a nation, but there
wasno calamity so great as when it ceased to recog-
nise the claims of justice and to see the plain duty
before it. In this case, however, such was not the
case, for the voice of England was speaking very
clearly in favour of full justice to Ireland. It was
a waste of time to use any argument on the point,
for it was but necessary for them to ask themselves
this one question—ls it right that the church of
the minority, supported against the wish of the
-majority and by the power and respurces of another
country-, should continuetoexist (" No, no," and
Yes, yes.) After' that, " No, no," what remained
to be said, or what argument could they place by
the side of that question ? To do so would be as
idle as the labour of the great philosopher, who,
when he cut a hole in his door for the passage of
his cat, cut a second and smaller one for the use of
the kitten. (Laughter.) Indeed, the weakness of
their case was this, that it seemed unnatural to
argue upon a question which was so clear and plain.
Indeed, the defenders of the Established Church in
Ireland reminded him of some children whom he
saw the other day in the park playing at hide and
seek, although they had only one tree to hide be-
hind. (Laughter.) Nay, they were worse, for
they had not even one argument to take refuge
behind. (Cheers.) Any that they did bring for-
ward told in the opposite direction, so that not
having argument to appeal to they appealed to
passion and prejudice. (Cheers.) The author of
" Tancred" once said that society could not be car-
ried on without a good deal of prejudice, and he
supposed the present Premier thought the Govern-
ment of the country could not be carried on with-
out a great deal of prejudice. (Hear.) He con-
fessed that when he read the Dartmouth letter a
thrill of indignation went through him, and he
asked himself if that was the way in which to rule
a great country, by appealing to the passions and
prejudices of the people. Since then Mr. Disraeli had
somewhat changed his opinion, as appeared from the
letter which he had written to the Rev. Mr. Baker,but
still it was to be regretted that there should exist
in the country such a state of feeling as made it
possible for any one to make such an appeal to the
people. They had now much to learn and much to
unlearn ; they had to learn the great lesson of how
to live together in brotherly love, mutually respect-
ing and tolerating each other's religious convictions
—and they had to unlearn the spirit of religious
aggressiveness, and that spirit of intolerance that
did not hesitate to use the first weapon which was
at
d hand—a was akin to that of the cru-
ing King who thought the only sa spiritof France
thatanes
ar-
gument for the conversion of a heretic was three
inches of cold steel. (Cheers.) They had already
the first fruits of a better spirit in which England
was proving to Ireland that we are more tolerant of
each other, and there came a voice across the water
which told them that Ireland was prepared to ac-
cept what England was doing on her behalf. (Hear,
hear.) It was a great and noble time in the his-
tory of the country, for it was the first time she was
acting in a truly righteous and generous spirit
towards Ireland ; and now for the first time the
great heart of the people of England was yearning
with an irresistible impulse towards the people of
Ireland, longing to lead them on to a happier and
better too, for the first time, the
heart
t ftuofutherleri; anshpd n
e opow' l e
was stretching itself to the
sunshine of English kindness. (Cheers.)
The resolution was then put and agreed to
unanimously.
Mr. MASON JONES next presented himself to
move the second resolution. It was hardly three
months ago, he said, since he had the honour of
standing on that platform, under the presidency of
Mr. Edward Miall, when he ventured to assert that
if the wishes of the people of England were con-
sulted they would have been found to consist in a
feeling to remove every grievance that pressed on
the people of Ireland. (Cheers.) He had been
since that time in the large town of Manchester
and other places. He had addressed hundreds and
thousands of people, and the response he received
on every occasion was, that perfect equality should
be established in Ireland. The Irish question years
ago was not what it was now. It was not alone in
magazine, but now it was
the newspaper or in the
the great battle cry, and already the opponents of
the present system had gained a great victory. When
he travelled through the country during the past
three months he could perceive that his statements
on the Irish Church were met with incredulity and
astonishment, and when he spoke of hundreds and
thousands of pounds being given to clergymen in
parishes where all the inhabitants were Roman Ca-
tholics and no Protestants could be found at all, they
could not believe it. Mr. Disraeli said in Edinburgh
that he educated his party ; but he (Mr. Mason
Jones) believed that in a few yearsthe people would
be so educated as to drive him and his party from
the position they now so unworthily and shamefully
occupied. (Loud cheers.) There was a certain
angular member of the house who held his opinions
in one direction and voted in another. He believed
in nothing in the heavens, on the earth, or under
the earth except himself—the hon. member for
Sheffield—(a laugh)—but when he (Mr. Jones)was
in Sheffield he gave the constituency an advice
which, if the hon. member had persevered in the
vote his speech would indicate, would have cost
him his seat. (Hear, hear.) He believed the de-
sire of the country was that her Majesty should dis-
miss political jugglers like the present Government
from office, and restore those who had principles
and honour, and who left office sooner than aban-
don either one or the other. (Hear.) He believed
the speech of Mr. Coleridge was a brilliant produc-
tion ; but the moment he read Lord Stanley's his
own opinion was that thelrish Church was doomed.
(Hear, hear.) He ridiculed the speech made by
Mr. Disraeli at the end of the late debate, and the
principle that a Government was bound to support
Church establishments, as one not only devoid of

reason, but against common sense. He had read
carefully the American Constitution, and there was
not a word in it, from beginning to end, about reli-
gion. Besides, it must be remembered that the
largest number of persons under the gracious rule of
their Sovereign were natives of India, and if the
principle that the head of the State should be at all
times head of the Church be sound, their Sovereign
must become a Buddhist. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
11( ith such examples before his eyes he ought to
have been cautious before committing himself to any
statement. Last year he called those who met in
that hall " obsolete incendiaries and spouters of stale
sedition," and yet he afterwards, by accepting Mr.
Hodgkinson's amendment, conferred upon them a
Reform Bill with household suffrage. But who was
the real incendiary ? Certainly it was he who endea-
voured to excite ill-will and bad blood between the
different classes of her Majesty's subjects, for the
base and selfish purpose of keeping himself in power
and thereby degrading the high office which he
held. (Cheers.) Who was it raised the "No
Popery" cry, by proposing to level up the Roman
Catholic to the Protestant establishment by endow-
ing it, and afterwards, when the feeler which he
threw ot-A was found not to take, receded from his
proposal? It was the Premier. It was he, to.),
who by proposing to give a charter to the Roman
Catholic University was willing to hand over the
education of the Roman Catholic youth of the
country to the Ultramontane clergy. This was the
Minister who raised the " No Popery" cry, but it
would not serve his purpose, for the people of Eng-
land would treat it with the derision and contempt
which it deserved. He did not care a straw for any
religion whatever, and yet he now availed himself
of this latent religious feeling in order to keep him-
self in power. (Hear, hear.) It was his belief
that the speeches of the Home Secretary and of
Mr. Disraeli himself had done more to advance the
object which the meeting had in view than anything
he (Mr. Jones) had said or done during the past
three months. He had no ill feeling against the
Church Establishment in England, but he warned
English Churchmen that if they rowed in the same
boat with the Irish Church both would go to the
bottom. (Cheers.) Mr. Jones concluded by moving
the second resolution, to the effect that no settle-
ment of the Irish Church question would be satis-
factory which does not result in the impartial dis-
tribution of all disendowed religious bodies in In-
t land.

Mr. EDWARD MIALL seconded the resolution, and
said—l think the straw begins to move, and to-
night I can hardly recognise my own position in re-
gard to this question. Three mouths ago I was an
extreme:man. Just now lam in the ranks of the
moderate party. (Hear, hear.) There are some
who go before me who were behind me, and there
are many others before whom I went who have now
come abreast of me. This is what for many years
past I have watched in the progress of the question,
and what I have earnestly yearned for, and now the
approaching realisation of my hopes fills me with
the deepest sense of responsibility. (Hear, hear.)
There was a time when I felt it was necessary to use
such a stimulus as my heart could furnish to excite
the minds of my countrymen to do justice to Ire-
land in this particular. That time has gone by.
There is no necessity now to argue the question,
for the Irish Church controversy has been settled in
the House of Commons by a majority of 60, and the
public opinion of the country has wonderfully backed
the decision of that majority. There is, then, no
necessity for that argument. We need not now
dwell on the absurdities or the injustice perpetrated
by such an institution. (Hear.) We may con-
sider now we have not to speak, but to act, and we
have by our vote to-night to elect whether we shall
agree to sustain the resolutions which Mr. Glad-
stone has put before the House of Commons. But
there is another thing that fills me with deeper
anxiety than this. lam most anxiously concerned
that this battle should be fought, not as a battle of
faction, but as an attempt to do justice to Ireland.
I hope, therefore, we shall not triumph, either in
our language or in our tones, over our fellow-coun-
trymen who are of the Anglican communion in
Ireland. (Cheers.) We wish to do them no harm
whatever. We are certainly amazed at the alarm
into which they have got, for we assure them that
when the question comes to a practical settlement
they will find themselves in a far better position
as regards their faith than at the present moment.
(bear, hear.) They naturally shrink from that to
which they have not been accustomed, and they
certainly have not been accustomed to put their
hands in their pockets and so support the
teaching of their own faith. (Hear, hear, hear.)
I, however, can assure them on experience that, so
far from that being an act inflicting injury on any
person, it is one which raises the whole character of
the people, by giving them an interest in that
about which they were indifferent, and changes the
mere political motive into the high spiritual one.
They need not, then, be afraid. We shall take
nothing from them in this work—nothing which
they need to cherish with great anxiety. We shall
leave them their Bible. (Laughter.) We shall leave
them their Book of Common Prayer. (Laughter.)
We shall leave them their ecclesiastical organisation.
We shall not put forth a hand on their bishops, and
they will have full liberty to do the work which Mr.
Hardy claims for them in upholding the doctrines
of the Protestant Reformation ; and perhaps they
will do it better when they do it fully and at their
own expense; and perhaps just in proportion as they
feel a personal responsibility in the truths which
they proclaim, they will publish and proclaim those
truths with a tenderness of feeling for the religious
convictions of others. There is no result of the Irish
Church more melancholy than this, that it has made
the spirit of religion in Ireland political rather than
religious. There is, I regret to say, a bitterness of
feeling on both sides which does not arise from the
doctrines or the precepts of Christianity ; and it is
simply because one party has been placed by law in
a position of ascendancy over the other party, and
because the other party has been put in an insulting
subjection to the former party. (Hear, hear.) It
is on this account that religious controversy has
assumed such bitter acerbity in Ireland ; but I
trust we shall put an end to the causes of that,
and let it be remembered that we take from the
Anglican community in Ireland this and no
more. We call upon them to step down from a
political and factious supremacy, and put themselves
on a level and equality with their fellow-country-
men of the other faith. (Hear, hear.) No doubt
it will be galling to their pride to do so, but let us
not at such a moment forget how we are all subject
to the frailties of human nature, and do not let us
irritate farther than the process of cure actually
requires. Deal gently, then, with those whom you
displace from their position, and give them what
you can consistently with your object—that object
being religious equality by means of impartial dis-
endowment. I should not haggle over terms, but
endeavour in every way to soothe the feelings of all
parties, and especially those most deeply interested.
I should deal with them in the spirit of tenderness
and affection, believing that a very short time must
elapse before the whole country will admire the
change which must come over the land. (Hear,
hear.) It remains for us to throw oil on the
troubled waters to prevent oil being thrown on com-
bustible materials, and do nothing without being
actuated by a tender, kind, moderate, and careful
spirit to soften down prejudices. (Cheers.) if
that course be pursued in a fraternal spirit—and the
Irish Church is told they are now in a false posi-
tion, and that we shall place them in a true one—
I think its supporters will be grateful. (Cheers.)
The resolution was then put and carried unani-
mously.
Sir HENRY lloanE next moved the third resolu-
tion, which was as follows :—" That inasmuch as
the present Government does not possess the confi-
dence of either the House of Commons or the coun-
try, their continuance in office is a violation of con-
stitutional usage, and this meeting is of opinion
that the carrying out of the foregoing resolutions
should be entrusted to Mr. Gladstone and a Liberal
Ministry," (Loud cheers.) lie was, he said, happy
to have an opportunity to have to speak to the
question. He did not propose to address himself to
any arguments with respect to the Irish Church,
because, in the first place, England, within the last
few weeks, unanimously declared its opinion in