The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-16 00:00:00

attached to this tax as appeared to be now;
but, taking everything into consideration, he could
not at present come to any certain decision on
the subject. He hoped the House would not expect him
to do so, for as of late he had been prevented by his
health rom seeing any one, he had not had the opportu-
nisrof communicating with persons best acquainted with
these subjects; but he would do so, and at present he
would not state anything definite to toe House
on the subject. They had also a proposition
to reduce the malt-tax, amounting to 5,225,000/e
bat it must be obvious that unless the House
were prepared to vote some substitute for the deficien-
cies which would occur to some considerable amount,
there was no chance that any Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer could come down to the Ifouse prepared to make
such a large reduction. The next proposal was one made
by an Hon. Gentleman, whom he regretted not to see in
his place to-night (Mr. Disraeli), to transfer so many
items of local taxation to the general fund. It veSer.linot
impossible to calculate the amount of that transfer, but it
was probable that it would be two millions and a half.
He was quite sure that the object of the policy which
had been adopted was to give the greatest advantage to
the whole community, and the policy which had pre-
vailed for the last ten years had been instrumental in
the reduction of from 1,600,0001. to 2,000,0001. of annual
taxation.—(Hear, hear.) At least 1,000,0001. of the
taxation of the country had been permanently re-
moved in consequence of the charges which her
Majesty's present Government had removed.—(Hear.)
They had indeed only followed out the plan which had
been adopted by Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the
House, who were now in the Opposition.—(Hear, hear.)
He was the more anxious to name this, because he saw
in the opposition which had been offered there was an
evident attempt to delay, if not altogether to
frustrate, the policy which had been pursued during
the last twenty years. In 1825 Mr. Huskisson had first
propounded the principles upon which Government had
during late years acted. The object cf that policy was
to remove from the working classes those burdens which
they had heretofore borne, and to place them on those
whose attained property would enable them well to bear
them.—(Loud and continued cheering.) This was the
reason why they had continually proposed the removal
of the restrictions on commerce, and the reduction of the
duties upon the necessaries of life and the articles which
are requisite for the comfort and well-being of the poor.
Since the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir R. Peel)
took office, in 18-10, duties on coffee, sugar, and other
articles, had been repealed to the extant of 7,600,000/.
On sugar alone the duties repealed could not
have been far short of a million. 8,650,000/.
might be clearly taken as the amount of reduction of
duties on articles of consumption, Taking the reduction
on foreign sugar from 635. to 235., the average amount
for three years alone would be 1,600,0001. Many other
indirect taxes had been repealed, and the result was
considerable benefit to largo masses of the people.
including every order and every class.—(Hear.) All
these reductions bad been approved of by a large ma-
jority of the House. Now let him ask, did they believe
the state of things pointed out by Huskisson bad come
to pass? Capital had accumulated, and every large
town in the kingdom had increased in Biz-
and population, especially this large metropo-
lis. Since Huskisson lost his life on the first
railway that was ever opened, 220,000,0001. bad been
invested in railways. Within the last five years as much
as 140,000,000/. had been expended on these undertakings.
He thought he need not refer to more conclusive proof
than that of the accumulated wealth and capital of the
superior classes of this great country, but could he con-
gratulate them on a similar improvement in the condi-
tion of the working classes?—(fieer, Lear.) Certainly
it was creditable to the age that much more attention
was paid now than formerly to the condition of the
working man.—(Cheers.) But let the House look at the
report of the Factory Commission, the Mines Com-
mission, the Sanitary Commission, and, above all, the
last report of the Commission appointed to inquire int(
the operations of the hew of settlement, and he was
afraid the House would have to confess that the condi-
tion of the poorer classes was still miserable in
the extreme.—(Cheers.) And yet, in the fee,
of all this, two hundred and fifty gentle met.
in that House Lad recently been found voting for a pro-
position which would have bad the effect of relieving
property from taxation by imposing it on articles o
consumption and the raw materials of lebour.—(Cheers.)
He believed, however, that had those lion. Gentlemer
fully considered and weighed these facts, which he had
just brought before them, they never could have voted
for any such proposal.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He thought the past policy of the House had been bent,
sound and just, and although they had been trouble°
with a famine in Ireland, and a commercial crisis which
for a time had paralysed the trade of the
country, he believed they were now approaching
that period when the whole country would real
the full benefit of that policy.—(Hear, hear.) He con-
ceded to the Honourable Gentlemen who had voted for
that proposal that great pressure had been felt in the
agricultural districts from the change, but from in
formation which he had recently received, he was very
much mistaken indeed if this pressure had not now
almost entirely passed away.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.")
He confessed be thought that the complaints which were
made throughout the country were a little premature.
He must admit, however, that the price of corn had
been lower than he anticipated it would be.—(" Hear,
hear," from the Protectionists.) But at the same time
he thought it pretty clear that the present prices could
hardly be permanent, or attributed to the operation
of free trade. He saw only yesterday a report which
had been presented to the President of the French Re-
public from the Council of Agriculture, Commerce, ano
Manufactures in France, in which they spoke of the dis-
tressed state of agriculture in that country, and
where, too, agriculture was protected, in language
stronger than any that had been used in the
most depressed districts in England. It was obvious
that the low prices of corn in that country could not b(
attributed to any importation from foreign countries.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed that the solution was simply
that there had been an unusually abundant harvest.
The exportation we had received to any
very great extent was hardly beyond what hi
had anticipated from those countries which were
not usually exporting countries. lie found, for instance,
in France, the average price of wheat for eight years
in Belgium, during the seven
9s, odd; and in Amsterdam.
yearsduring ending
endingthel 8 4 scis
InB'
es 5a
years
sit4Bs. d 4
ending
was
1845, it was 48s. 10d. He
had shown that in those three neighbouring countries,
from which we derived so large a supply, the average
price of grain was under 84s. per quarter.
He was fully convinced that the result of the late corn
mercial alteration had had the effect of inciting those
engaged in agriculture to further exertions, and he felt
spirit of the British
ount all his dtth-
efftlurlilmtiereser,li.antnhciteahtoiunghhotheweonueldrgy
saunrmd
ho was aware that many it.
that endeavour might fail. Such was an inevit-
able consequence of all great improvements,
—to take a familiar instance, were not all who lived at
a distance from London aware of the great numbers that
had been deprived of their employment by the introduc-
tion of railways, and been obliged to turn their endea-
vours to some other means of getting a livelihood. But still
no one thought of stopping the railroads on that account.
Great improvements went on, and though some persons
gof stopping the im-
provements. thoughton all the propene',
which
t be inured,had been
He
mhnaoadd touched
one
thedu disposalof his surplus.
Now he came to the views of Inn Majesty':
Government on that point—he had thought it .right
to touch upon these proposals first, because it was proba-
ble /hat they might be made in the House, and he thought
it was as well that the House should be aware cf the
views of her Majesty's Government on all of them pre-
viously. The surplus amounted, as he had aimed)
Majesty's Government, was to effect some e during late years, the chief desire'
stated, to 1,500,000/. Looking back at what
hofadhetr aken
reduc-
tion in the debt—And the manner in which that was to
be done would require great and careful consideration.
If Hon. Gentlemen would only refer to the money which
had been- borrowed of late years, they would immeli-
borrowed ; in 1841 the
etely perceive tie stringency of the motive by which he
37000570t1. actuated.—(Hear,
d( e
beenar r hear.)
In 1833.34 the sum of
sum of 5,000,000/. had been borrowed; and in
1847, when the House re fused to accede to
his motion for the permanent increase of the
income-tax, he had been compelled to go out of doors
and borrow the sum of 8,000,000/. Since then the sum
of 2,,000,0001. had been borrowed, so that during the
years that had ensued since the reduction of the war
taxation, no less a sum than 38,000,000/. had been added
to our national debt. Against this, however, there was an
offsot of 11,000,0001., which had been paid, thus showing
that. the permanent increase of the debt was 27,000,0001
since the attempt had been concluded for the reduction
of the impositions occasioned by the war.—(Hear, hear.)
To remedy this evil the only plan that could be adopted
was the reduction of the debt, and to pay off a portion
of the obligations which had been incurred during the Fast
ten years The House bad met his proposal for a con-
tinuance of the income-tax during the ensuing ten years
with a decided negative.—(Hear, hoar.) Ho had made
thse proposition in the hope of clearing the debt.—
(Hear, hear.) if they could not prepare for this in
a time of profound Peace, when could the)
do it? WL at would they think of any
priv ate person who was obliged to get into debt in a
disastrous period, and yet refused to provide for the
obligations which he bad incurred when more
prosperous times came round.—(llear, and cheers.)
In the course of the present year a most
important question would come before the House,
vino the removal of the income-tax, and
with out catering into the opinions of parties on the
subjt:ct he would simply say that it was obvious
that this tax must be continual if any fur-
ther reductions were made in our taxa-
tion.. The Honourable Member for Buckinghamshire
had spoken c f the advauteges which would be derived
by I maintaining a high state of credit by the public
keep ing an abundant available security. He (the Chan-
cello r of the Exchequer) thought the income-tax was
a no. teasary element in maintaining that credit. A Mem-
ber f or a large county in Ireland had stated that the cre-
dit p reduced by the income-tax had enabled gentlemen
in Ir eland to relieve their estates from encumbrances.
It was desirable, nevertheless, that some relief
shot ad be given to the landed interest, and
the first measure ho should propose was one
which he hoped would be of some benefit to
the c ecupler and small holders of land. None but a large
redu ration of rents could benefit the occupier. The altered
state of the law, however, required that there should be
some t reduction, and when ho remembered the cheapness
that the present policy was producing he thought
that reduction ought to be readily made.
Com paring the last year with the present, he believed
empl oynaent in the agricultural districts was
now greater than it was in the corresponding
perk d of last year; and ho believed by an increased
evement in the cultivation of the soil the condition
Of V ;e labourer:would be still further improved,..and

the welfare of the community at large advanced. This
could only be attained by an outlay of capital
on the part of the landlord ; and he was
anxious that no obstacle should be thrown in
the way of his doing that. Now the stamp.
duty on a 501. sale of property was 124 percent.; on 1001.
51 per cent.; on 3001. j 21 pert, cent.; on 5001, 11. 14e.
3d. per cent.; and above that sum I/. per cent.
It was obvious, therefore, that in the case of
small owners, rhey were not in an equal posi-
tion with their richer neighbour;.—(Hear, hear.)
It was but fair to place them on an equality with other
classes, by allowing them to sell or borrow without
having those obstacles thrown in their way. Hon. Mem-
hers no doubt remembered that when proposals of this
kind were made to extend to another portion of the
United Kingdom, the lion. Member for Oxfordshire said
they ought.to be applied to the whole country as well as
to Ireland. Ile (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) con-
curred in that view, and the first proposal he should
make would be, a considerable reduction in the duties
levied in the transfer of property up to the amount of
1.000/. What he proposed to do was, he thought, more
just than if an acreable per-centage were proposed ; and
he intended also that the same rule should apply to bonds
and mortgages.—(Hear.) The reduction was to com-
mence with all sums under 1,0001., and be proportionately
increased on any sum above that, because it would be
most unjust that the same duty should be charged on
the higher sums. He therefore proposed to make it,
as far 23 practicable, an ad valorem duty, and in
every respect as uniform as possible. Another thing to
which he attached the utmost importance was the tenure
of land and the granting of leases. In Cases, also, when
the landlord was not disposed to lay out his own capital,
and that the tenant was prepared to do so en getting a
!ease, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was pre-
pared to reduce the stamp duty on leases, which at pre-
cent was very unjust and unequa'. According to the
scale now existing, a loan for any sum less than 20/ was
liable to 11. duty, and what he proposed to do was, that
for a sum not exceeding 25/. a duty of 2s. 6d. should be
charged, and so on up to 1,000/., which would be at the
rate of I per cent. Then as to agricultural labourers, he
had already stated that he was anxious, as far as in him
lay, to promote any object which would give them em-
ployment, by enabling the owners of land to raise
money for the improvement of their properties; but ho
was, above all, anxious to improve the comforts and
dwellings in which they resided.—(Cheers.) Oa that sub-
ject he would refer again to tbo document which ema-
nated from the Lords' Committee as to the effect of
the present law on the condition and morals of the poor
in their habitations. For his own part, he never was
more struck with anything than in reading this evidence
on that subject ; and having raid some attention to the
subject himself, it was impossible, he would say, under
the present system, to procure those comfortable cottages
for the labouring classes which all would desire. In
the first place, no remunerative interest could be expected
by those who did so, and, under the present circum-
stances, the Government thought it right that no legis-
lative obstacle should, at any rate, be imposed on those
who might think of doing so. As far as regarded a mo-
tinn of his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose, pro-
posed some time since, relative to a drawback on the
duties on bricks, he, for ono, had in all cases a great ob-
jection to drawbacks ; but, independently of that objec-
tion, he believed that it was impossible that the proposal
of his Hon. Friend could be carried into effect. Seeing,
however, that the evil was not confined to the cottages
of the poor, but that the health of towns and cities was
deeply affected, he was prepared to concede the total
repeal of the duty on bricks.—(Cheers.) He found
that that subject had also occupied the attention of
the CoMmittee of the House of Lords, to whose report
he had already adverted, when they stated that not only
would such a repeal tend t the improvement of real
property in towns, and their immediate vicinity, but add
considerably to the comfort of the poorer classes. In-
depeneeatly of promoting the comforts of the poor,
which he consideiel of paramount importance, it was
also one of no less interest to the agriculturists them-
selves. In portions of the country where soil was of
,uch a nature a; to prevent the manufacture of bricks,
a repeal of the duty would be of the greatest advantage,
promoting and improving agriculture. flu (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) knew nut if Vie lion.
,telpher for West Surrey was an advocate for the in-
crease of building on existing farms, but, for his own
dart, he knew of no means better calculated to effect
.uch an object then the abolition of the duty on bricks.
rae amount received from duty on stamps was a
tittle under 300,0001., on bricks 450,0001., melting in
ell a reduction in taxation of 750,0001., or little less
than half the sum of the estimate as the surplus on
nand. He was not aware when he came to add the sum
which he intended to apply to the reduction of the
national debt, to that which he now proposed, as a re-
duction on taxation, that he should, ate doing both,
have a large sum on hand; still he thought it was only
,ust and fur, that one-half should be so applied fur the
reduction of the debt, and the other to relieve in some
measure the burdens of the people. He should afso ob-
serve, that Hon. Gentlemen must not suppose that that
was the only relief from taxation which would take place
in the course of the year, because, by the operation of the
Sugar Act of 1846, duties on colonial and foreign sugar
would be remitted after July next, to the amount of
350,000/. The actual relief, therefore, given to the people
in the course of the year, would amount to 1,100,000/.
(Cheers.) lle had another measure to propose, which he
oelievod was calculated to promote objects of a perma-
'lent importance, and that was the outlay of capital for
.he improvement of land. For his own part, he believed
4haL it was not simply au agricultural, but a national
ibject, for it could answer no purpose that any great
interest in that country should be depressed.—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear.") It was of essential im-
portance that the food of this country should be procured
at home, and not abroad—(Loud cheers from the Protec-
douists)—and he was on that account induced to be-
believe that a judicious outlay of capital, combined with
sklll, enterprise, and industry, would not only be bene-
ficial to the agricultural interests, but to the country at
large.—(Cheurs.) Now the proposal he was about to
make was, to do that which was done in 1846, that is,
to make further advances for the purpose of draining
and the Letter cultivation of land.—(Loud cries of
' Hear.") Ho had the most satisfactory accounts from
Ireland and elsewhere of the advantages already de-
eivsd, not only in the employment of labour, but in a
profitable return for the outlay in the cultivation of land.
He was of opinion that in this respect the advances
would not be confined to those made by the Government
for that purpose; he thought that private companies,
when they discovered what was doing, would also come
orward and advance loans, for he well recollected that
twelve years ago, When they proposed raising a loan to
cultivate sugar in the' Mauritius, this matter was after
some time taken up by the merchants themselves, and car-
ried on by them. The last advance made to England and
Scotland was two millions, and a gentlemen on the other
dile of the Tweed evinced their readiness, by a priority
if applications, to avail themselves of the offer, by ac-
cepting out of the two millions, 1,600,0001.—(Loud
laughter from all parts of the House.) The sum appro-
priated to England was 372,000/, which, with a certain
sum reserved for a contingency, made up the entire; fur-
ther applications were made for an additional 500,0001.;
but he did not think himself called on to comply with
them. He proposed, then, to advance an additional sum
if two millions, and was prepared to reserve to England
:he opportunity of making itself 'square for its former
:oss—(A. laugh)—though ho would not refuse Scotland
its fair proportion. With regard to Ireland, he pro-
oosed making as additional advance of a million. That
as
et ul t
.; n t alreadylin 11a8d49300510
received,
malting
00.
and
oroposed to add to that sum 200,000/., which would
Make the total advance two millions, and that put it oa
a footing with England. That he proposed to be ll(!
a
ex-
pended in arterial drainage, on which he found there
had already been spent 858,000/., but in consequence
of the works having been stopped—a circumstance
which produced great injury by promoting fevers and
other disorders, by the effect of open drains and incorn-
elete drainage—he now proposed they should be com-
pleted, and for that purpose 800,0004 would be advanced.
Ireland would thus receive for improvements in land
done 1,400,000/. lie said he would mention an addi-
ional reason why he should keep a surplus in his hand,
and that was that he should be enabled t meet those
advances without making any addition to the public
lebt. He himself believed that the system of making
advances from the public fund was not one which ought
:o be of permanent continuance—(Loud cries of " Hear,
near")—and he hoped that whoever occupied the situa-
ion he had then the honour to fill would be in a position
to put a stop to them, the result of which would be that,
for some years, the amount of these advances paid in
would accumulate a considerable sum, which could be
beneficially employed in reducing their national debt.—
(Loud cries of " hear, hear.") These were the pro•
oosals he had the honour to make to the House. On
.tamps and bricks he had relieved the people
to the amount of nearly half the sum he pos-
sessed as a surplus; in addition to that there would
he a reduction in July next of 350,000/. on sugar, and
in consequence of the existing state of things, he was
pre pared to make an advance of three millions, two
o England and Scotland, and one to Ireland, fur the
better cultivation and improvement of land. He would
then have in his hand 750,000/., which he would either
apply to the reduction of the national debt or any con-
tingencies which may arise. Of that sum he intended
to apply another sum of 250,000/. for the extinction of a
debt which he found had existed from the time of the
union with Scotland, as a charge on the public revenue
of ten thousand a year, called an "Equivalent Fund."
It was thought much better to put an end to that charge
et once, by the payment of the 250,0001. he had men-
tioned, and after doing so he should still have a surplus
of 500,000/., which he hoped the House would allow him
to retain for contingencies.

Sir JAI'.IES GRAHAM asked who received that
money in Scotland?
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER replied
that it was paid to the "Equivalent Company," who
wero principally members of the Bank of Scotland. He
did not know if he could succeed in satisfying the
agricultural community with the advantages thus afforded
them; but a'l he should say was, that while he and the Go-
vernment with which he had the honour to be connected,
felt themselves bound to resist their claims in look-
ing for the restoration of measures which would have the
effect of taxing the community at large, they would be
allays ready, as far as relief could be afforded, to do so
on all occasions, believing, as they did, that a proper
outlay of capital on the land would have the effect of
raising that interest to prosperity as it would of provid-
ing food for their increasing millions, which was so in-
dispcn3ably necessary. It would require skill and
energy on the part of the farmers, and a great outlay
of capital by the owners of that soil, and they were ready
to assist them by every means in their power. Thole
measures, he telieved, would not only benefit the agri-
culturist!, but advance the interests of all classes in that
great country. He did, however, hope that the House
would support him in maintaining the surplus he had in
Land, for he could not say how strongly he felt the ne-
cessity of such a course, and that was no now opinion

of his, for he had before stated, that less than half a
million ought never to be taken from the reserve fund of
a Chancellor of the Exchequer. Since he had had the
honour of filling his present situation, that was the first
time he was possessed of a surplus; on the contrary, he had
on several occasions been obliged to borrow, and he did not
feel he would be acting the pal t of a❑ honest man, it' he
did not urge on the House the necessity of reraying, as
Boon as possible, the money which had been so bet rowed.
—(Cbee:s.) Such a course was essent'al ti the main-
tenance of public credit, and the security of all property
w.s beund up with the fulfilment of their engagements.
—(Hear, hear.) He was far from supposing that those
who called still further for a reducticn of taxation had
the slightest intention of injuring the national credit;
but if 'they were to borrow money, and, at tie same
time, reduce taxation, there never would be an end to
their increasing liabilities. The Right Hon. Gentleman
having again expressed his anxiety that no new demand far
a reduction of taxation for the present would be enforced,
concluded by moving twat a sera of 9,200,0001. be raised
in Exchequer-bills.

Mr. LIUME' said the very gratifying manner in which
so s:uell a reluetion of taxation to the country had been
received ought to be a lesson to those who had hitherto
been the great cause of its increase. He believed the
relief it was proposed to give was a very proper relief as
far as it went, but what he objected to was, that in the
see.:ch they had just heard the Right Hon. Gentleman
had merely confined himself to a statement of the surplus
and the way in which he proposed to apply it, instead
of making a geaeral statement of the taxation of the
country, and giving his reasons why larger reduc-
tions could not have been effected.—(Hear, hear.)
A budget should show what the whole taxation of the
country was, and the reason the expenditure was pro-
posed to be made. He wanted to know whether the
country was to expect any further reduction or not.
So far as the reduction of the duty on stamps was con-
cerned, he believed it would be very beneficial, as
would the abolition of the duty on bricks, but he
must say he had very great doubts as to the pro-
priety of making any further advances to the land-
lords either in Great Britain or Ireland. Such ad-
vances were opposed to all sound principle, and never
should be granted unless there was a strong necessity
shown. Money was plentiful in other quai tors at pre-
sent, and therefore that necessity did not exist. He
considered the advances already made to the landlords
an ample compensation for any loss they might have
sustained. He hoped the House would not support the
measure, as he considered the proposal to keep such a
surplus to meet these advances was of a most doubt-
ful character. The influence upon the sanita y con-
dition of the people of the window-tax was so
important that it ought to be abolished, even if it left
a small lose on the annual income, and nun the
supposition that no farther reduction could be
effected. But he believed that he could show how
a saving of ten millions could be made. They hal
often been told that they had a very small amount left
upon which any reduction could be effected; but by a
return he had moved for, of the half-pay and effective
service of the army, navy, and ordnance for the last
twenty-eight years, be found that the revenue in 1848
was, in round numbers, 57,000,0001.; the expenditure for
the civil and military establishments was 30,427,000!.;
thus leaving an amount of 27,000,0001. only that they
could not deal with. He complained of the extravagant
cost of our establishments. In the years 1832.3-4-5,
the cost of the whole establishments and civil list did
not exceed 21,000.000/ ; last year it was upwards of
30,000,000/. What reason was there for their not going
back to that lower standard? The Government were
bound to show good reasons for maintaining the increased
establishments. No doubt if they were to become like
Don Quixote, running round the world as mediators, as
we had done for many years past, and meddling with
every body's business but our own, he did not know
where the expense of our civil and military establish-
ments was to end. The House would act with
great indifference to the interests of the country, if
they did not press for gr,at>r reductions, in order to
compel the diminution of our establishments. Unless
they refused to grant taxation, the Government of the
thy, he did nit care nhat party they belonged to, would
never make any reductions in these establishments.
They hat heard from the Right Hon. Baronet of many
reductions within the last three years. But he gave the
Government no credit for that. If the House had
granted a five per cent. income-tax, and allowed of a
continued large expend.twe, these reductions would not
have been made. By refu,ing that tax, the Government
had been forced to make reductions amounting to nearly
four millions, and he said they should, therefore, in the
same way force further reductions. He was prepared to
show the way in which the window tax, matt tax, and
the tax on soap, could be all abolished without either
danger to the public credit, or to the efficiency of the
public establishments. He had no wish to detain the House,
but he must complain that Ministers had made no state-
ment of the nature and necessity of our present expendi-
ture. The House, which professed to be the guardian of
the public purse, neglected its duty; and in the state-
ment that night Ministers had omitted, for the first time,
the usual statement that they had brought down the
public establishment to the lowest point consistent with
public efficiency. Upon what principle could the high
salaries paid to judges, and other high officers be justi-
fied ? He did not mean to enter into details, but for
the reasons he had given, the House should not be con-
tanted with the budget they had heard, and ought to de-
mand further reductions. He believed the House should
sweep off one tax after another, and thus compel the
Government to reduce establishments. If they left a
surplus in the hand of any Government, whether Tory,
Whig, or Radical, they would expend it.—(Hear.)
lie thought the taxes on knowledge were productive of
greater evils than a few millions of debt, and the Go-
vernment ought to be compelled by the House to carry
out a fiscal system of removing every impediment to
education and the diffusion of knowledge among the
people. He should not then move any motion on the
question, but he felt it to be his duty t i express the
dissatisfaction he felt at the nature of the statement they
had just heard.
Mr. FRE WEN said, he must express great disappoint-
ment at the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, because
after the numerous deputations that had waited
upon him and the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) it was
fully expected that a reduction would have been proposed
in the hop duty. It was the only tax that was imposed
upon produce grown out of doors, and the duty varied
so much in proportion to theivaried produce of the crop—
which was of the most precarious nature—that in some
years the people in that part of the country in which
they were grown were thrown into bankruptcy from one
end to the other. Some of the owners of hop farms had
had one half of them thrown upon their hands. This
was in a great measure the operation of the excise duty.
He thought that when the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R.
Peel) reduced tho large duty upon foreign hope the ex-
cise duty should at the same time have been taken off.
He believed that the i retention of the tax would cause
universal dissatisfaction in the whole Weald of Kent and
in his own district (East Sussex). The amount paid for
labour alone was from 125,000/. to 180,0001. a year, and
looking to the large expenditure on this head alone, it
was too bad to have a direct tax of no less than 118,0001
a year thrown upon them. That was the amount of
duty they had to pay last year, or rather with which
they were charged, for some of it was not yet paid. He
felt bound to state to the Committee that general dis-
content would be produced in the part of the country
with which he was connected by the omission of which
he complained.

Mr. HODGES had also to express his deep disap-
pointment that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, af.cr
all that had transpired, should have thought it his duty
to retain so obncxious a tax, and one that pressed so
heavily upon his constituents as the hop duty. He was,
however, mistaken in supposing that these claims could
be neglected with impunity. If the Right Honourable
Gentleman continued t 3 act in this spirit, it would be
the duty of those who represented the tiop•growing dis-
tricts, certainly he would consider it to be his own duty,
to support every motion that might be made for reduc-
tion, in order that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
might at lest final a surplus out of which ho could afford
to abolish the hop duty. From the frequent interviews
that had taken place between the representatives of the
hop growers and the Government, they had every re s•
son to expect, that in the statement which had just been
made, a reduction of that duty would have been included;
and he must concur in the feeling of disappointment
which had been expressed by the Honourable Member
for East Sussex.
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY said he did not mean to enter
into any discussion upon general taxation, but merely to
ask f u. a solution of two points which seemed to him to
require a little further exploration. It had been as-
sumed that the surplus would be two millions. It was
now reduced to a million and a half, and very properly
so, for the reasons that had been given. His only doubt
was, whether even that sum was not too large, because
he fund in the charge on the rati,nal debt for the year
ending. 1850, an addition of 13,0001. over the charges for
the year ending 1849. Now, 13,0001. would represent a
capital 0fd,000,000/. borrowed at 3 per cent., and he
could not sae how, under the circumstances, the surplus
coed i he a million and a half. The proposal to pay
250,0001. for the extinction of the equivalent fund :5 -
vlared to him to be a system of mere hocus pc,cus with
public accounts, and he doubted very much the propriety
of lending money to the landlords of any country, while
we were, if not adding, at least not cutting down our
own debts.
Mr. COWAN said he regretted to learn that it was
the intention of the Government to postpone until alter
Easter the introduction of the Bill to regulate
hanki. Much anxiety existed upon the subject in Scot-
land, and he should very much wish that the intentions
of the Government with respect to it might be stated
before Easter.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the subject could
not be brought forward before Easter, but that it should
he brought forward as soon as possible afterwards.
Sir DE LACY EVANS expressed a wish that some
of the smaller receipt stamp duties had been remitted,
particularly the threepenny stamp, which were felt as a
great burden by many of the small traders throughout
the kingdom.
The Marquis of GRANBY said, that although he had
not great hope of expec.ing from her Majesty's Govern-
ment measures of a remedial nature for the agricultural
classes, still he was glad to find that the Right lion.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer-had prc-
fited by his experience of last year, and had introduced
his statement earlier in the session. There were, un-
doubtedly, great clamours in the country for a reduc-
tihn of taxation, but he thought the maintenance of
the public credit was a prior and more weighty con-
sideration.—(llear.) He found that petitions had been
presented to the Right Hon. Gentleman for the reduc-
tion ( f the duties on tea, bricks, soap, malt, windows—in
short, on all descriptions of articles. It was clear, how-
ever, from the recent political history of tbo country,
that reduced taxation had not bonefittod the lower
classes to the extent that was promised for it, or ex-
pected. The Right Hon. Gentleman stated, that since
1836 there had been no less than eight millions of taxes
reduced. He also repeated what Mr. Iluskisson tsaiti in

1830, that the f:reat capitalists of the country were
a songeki wealth, whilst the poorer and middling classes
of ety were not progressing. He (the Marquisof
Granby) had hop ed all along, that if that remission of
tax 'dim was sell going on it might have averted the
state of things which Mr. Husltisson described. Look-
ing, however, at the reports of the Poor-law Commis'
tieners, of the mining districts, and the other usual
sources of information, he was led to the conclusion that
the middling ce sees of society were not better off, nerf
withstanding the reduced taxation imposed upon them.
he was told to I ok at the increase of the population, and
the increase of , spiral, he would answer, that there might
he an increase of the population, and an increase of ca-
pital, but it was not an increase of either. With refer"
once to tee labs uring classes of the country, the nigh-
Hon. Gentleman admitted that there was great distress
in the agricultural population, and that admission went
some way toe ards remedying it.—(Hear, hear.) As to
what be said about the importation of corn not affect-
ing is price, he would al: him whether he believed that
ten millions of quarters of corn could be imported wit"•
out having a sensible effect on its price? It was imps:
sible to suppose that that could be the case. Then late
at the increase of taxation on the industrious claSsert
Let them take the case of the farmer, and consider that
taxes, which he could formerly pay with six quartellf
corn he could not now pay without nine quarters. "Ile
distress which would necessarily ensue in the strtiggti
which this new legislation brought, had been Wet,t,
prophesied by the Right Hon. Baronet who was t"-
author of it, and he presumed that the remission of stare!)
duties on transfers of land, which the Government pr°'
posed, was intended moat probably for this benefit. itlyi
other measure was the repeal of the duty on bricks, wbic
he thought would prove of very great benefit to tt
lower classes. In that point of view he thought
it a fair measure of justice, though, from a variety
of circumstances, it could not fail of operating
,litate
great inequality. As a measure for the relief ofst, tetii
landed interest, however, it was utterly worthless. vvt,
regard to the measure for advancing 2,000,0001. to YAW
land and Scotland, and 1,000,000/. to Ireland, for drain,:
age and improvement i f land, he agreed in opinion wit:
the Hon. Member fur Montrose, that when money 'va()
to be had at the rate of 2i per cent., that measure tile
was one which could not prove of great benefit to tst
landowners. Upon the whole, however, rejoicing at 113`
altered tone of the speech of his Right Hon. Friend thee!
Chancellor
.of the Exchequer, remembering that he tat
he was auxrous because be saw the advantage of grt)::
ing our corn in our own country, as far as that WE" vele.
amble, of not trusting to foreign supplies for that tattle
—rejoicing at that favourable change in his opinion;
seeing that he acknowledged that something might I
done to mitigate the di: tress that prevailed in the agriett ;
tural districts—lamenting at the same time that he her
not done more in the way of relieving them from o'l-
dens which would have been an immense relief to OW%
he was still pleased to that extent with the views Nellie
he had expressed on the subject. But firmly believing,
that no mere reduction of taxation which be could offi.eLe
could compensate for the 91,000,000/. mentioned by to
Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Wolverhensel
on the first night of the session—believing that the °elf,
eff.ctual remedy was a return to that commercial sYsteeie
from which they had of late years departed, he hureltett
ventured to exprets his opinion, that it would be tonei
necessary one day to revert to it; and that if they
t"eed
not do so of their own accord the circumstances tf
county would compelem o retrn.
Mr.r EWART said he was gladu that the Governreenett
had determined upon the abolition of the brick duty. ;
was, in his opinion, a wise measure as well as aPO °lll
because the duty affected England only, Scotland alt),,
Ireland being exempted either by law, or practically b•To
tLe effect of custom. The Right Hon. Gentlemeot te,
Chancellor of the Exchequer, had alluded to the Oat"'
brated speech of Mr. Huskisson in 1830. He re/I'i;
bored the words of that speech, and they apeearter„es
hon at the time exactly to describe the state of tut""e
which then obtained. Only two alternatives presentetf
themselves to his mind in the preterit conjunct:lre °6l
financial affairs. Either they must consent to a rethlt
taxation, or to a general se stem of direct tateaticee
was impossible for the present state of things to Ptee
consistently with the preservation of the trade of
.be
country. He was glad to bear the Chancellor ef,lt
Exchequer express the opinions that he had that Dlqb,
uttered. They were the principles of Huskisson, 1411,
he hoped would lead to the gradual abolition of all
noxious duties. which oppressed without benetill"a
society; and if agricultural duties stood in neeueue
reduction or repeal, ho should be most willing to
in an endeavour to place them on a mee setisfactete
footing.—(Hear, hsar.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE said, that if Mr. littsteisoes he°
could be restored to that House, he would pause erese,
sanctioned, with his deliberate and experienced 413100
the application of those principles to the removal of thd
restrictive systems which, in agricultural produce a°
01.0
navigation, he firmly believed had contributed /,?3,hio
than all other causes to the commercial greatness or this
country. The picture of financial matters which
me sit
Chancellor of the Exchequer had drawn was by un°3dit
a very encouraging one. In one breath he took cretold
for the reduction of eight millions of taxation, and „eta
them of continually decreasing exchequers 'wit" a
the period of that reduction. He thought "0
delusion to say that prices of corn abroad could be "I
precedent for prices at home, and ho felt it his (hitt:-
he could, to dispel it, which ie could from statistical -re
turns published by the Board f Trade, and which wheoi
printed by order of the House of Commons on the "t",-0
April, 1843. Those returns contained the prices of e„°"tt
in Denmark Letween the years 1815 and 1839, ae"ers
appeared that the average price between those Ye"to
was 295. a quarter, to which the expense of freight g,
this country must le added, amounting to about, ebt
a quarter. At Hamburgh, although the rd
Honourable Baronet the President of the 1310 e
of Trade had stated that the average PB9,
of coin at that port, between the years 1839 and 27t.
was 435. 4d. per quarter, it was in fact only 263. and
3d. Between the years 1837 and 1846, both ineig
iv
the average prices of corn were as follows:—At noil5o;
burgh, 263. 3d.; at Lubeck, 295. 4d.; at Dante,e, "tam
and at Stettin, 335. Bd. Upon that statement be ,iner.lor
fairly assume that, including a sum of ss. a enarbote
freight, corn might have been delivered from any Oftneite
ports within the tenses above stated, at the average t r the
of 355. a quarter. He had devoted many years °hot
study of this subject, and regretted the delusions ty tnie
prevailed upon it, but he cou'cl not be surprised 51 of
re,ult when such errors were circulated by Pers°ll:e3l
authority. He had given the prices between the Years
and 1846, because these were years when prices wervea
their natural level, before they were disturbed by nue°
our ports thrown open to foreigners. It was 0`,4-abt
use to cite France and Belgium. There was n° r
that these countries exported corn last year. In the )Inc,
of famine there were large exportations of corn from try,
land, but that was caused by the poverty of the nOtinwao
It was the same thing in France, the exportation
caused by poverty. When he was in the United Statest
which occurred a few years since, be took thet,Paiuriees.
ascertain what would be the probable range 0' P.," hen
Ile found that at New Orleans prices, from Sept per
1843, to 1845, ranged on an average at 249. Su'ijose
quarter; and, adding the expenses of transport Stever,
it it might be imported at 355. the quarter. He, h°ll, to
thought that the continental countries would he °vase
sell at lower prices. He hoped the Douse would e% e
him for adverting to these matters, but he had don_as°
because he believed the information upon which be w.ga.
these statements was authentic. Tie trade and navelea-
tion returns issued by the Board of Trade were canted
lated to delude the public upon the subject. It was York
in those documents that the expenses from NO 50 per
sse'e eleven shillings the bag, which was was
cent. greater than the real amount, which of
not more than 6s. the bag. The Clln'teeeister-
the Exchequer alluded to the period of " sas
bances on the Continent, and appealed to hire is, el-
honest man to recal the opinion which he bal forrnerlrnee
pressed, that these disturbances had not inured the eras
of this country. Although the Iteeht Hon. Genttal,
was net then in his place he would answer that arreees
and begged to sey that he did not thick the disturb,st, ta
on the Continent injure the t-ate of this county
the extent which was ascribed to it. Whatever 'than
vantage might have arisen from it, it was wore back
compensated by the number of absentees they bent
this country, and the influx of gold which was jinent.
mitted to this country for safer deposit and invest
who
The circular distributed by -Messrs. Gibson and Ord't her
were free traders, stated teat tee troubles of 1848 ras
aided the depression of that period, and exPtes.se, the
opinion that nothing but a general war could held' ete•
trade of this country. The relief which was neti.,ara
posed for the agricultural interest was not more tit'', the
half per tent. upon what they were stated at "k)rttga-
Membsr for Wolverhampton to have lost by the aelit
tion of the corn-laws. The Government held °Zoe°
proepect cf effectual relief. He was glad they bad steam
that explicit declaration. It was too much the cws, an
to speak of the agriculture of the country as if i! 0 pro'
insignificant interest—(" Hear, hear," from ower
tectionists)—but he was assured it was toe
ful and energetic to nduere a state of Tepee
by which it was avowed it was given up to
less ruin. of the
Lord R. GROSVERNOR had heard a portion ore,
speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with ern lees
—(llear.) The Right Hon. the Chancellor of teduttes
chequer admitted that the reduction of the teabot tap'
would be a great boon to the consuming classes'
eich it arr
peeled to the state of the revenue, from tion
pared that at no future r eriod would a reducer a 9
those duties be possible. He hail certainly h°l have
his Right Hon. Friend had a surplus, he ev°l.l et! hnsure.
been prepared to propose a more courageous miss one
It became his duty a short time ago to signal
tax, than which there was not one on the statinv,,co..,
more distinguished by want of principle and ittsilitear,
he meant the tax on the attornes' certificates.
ttkienieo
hear, and ironical cheers.) Hey dared HOD. (It"
to the proof, and would give them an oppot tun•EY Dior.
cussing the question after Easter, when he pledge (twit
self to prove that there was no tax on the statuoteotse
more unjust in principle or more unequal or oler ees to
in its application. But there were many other is the
which the same observation would apply, !Ind the
House recollect that these taxes were imposed dut7ettee.
war, end were a disgrace after 35 years ofEuropealiseance
He did not say that the amount of revenue _too,
from these taxes was not required by the public sulneee
but it ought to be obtainedther source.
was another point to which rho wi other sourCCC'
the
was another point to which ho wished to direct teiheeuant;
tention of the House, and that was the enormous a_l" be'
of force all round England to guard our custotaurs'tiotee
cause we chose to place on a certain number of eeo
out
so heavy a duty that the succesarul run of one catbog-
the
of seven or eight was sufficient to remunerate brishe
gler. He was very glad to find that the duty 01' tee
was likely to be removed. That no doubt wasis•
which had been stigmatised by the Sanitary Congas
sinners; but the window-tax, which was far eneteois
jurious, remained unrepetled.—(Hear, o_. the , ,
Right don. Friend had also laid much stress "000
benefit which would accrue to the small occupier,s..,
his proposed modification a the Stamp duties, PI"