The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-13 00:00:00

THE STATE OF IRELAND.

The Marquis of NORMANBY, on rising to call the atten-
tion of the House to this subject, said,—There are subjects of
such paramount and urgent importance in the minds of a
speaker, that they cwnpletely banished all considerations of self.
It was this alone which had induced him to encounter the diffi-
culty, and to incur the responsibility, of bringing before their
Lordships a subject of such great magnitude as that of which
he had given notice. He entertained feelings of such inten-
sity as to the present danger and as to the future prospects of
Ireland, that whatever other disqualification he might hare, he
should at least address them with that earnestness which was,
he believed, the best prospect to their Lordships's attention.
But he had another inducement to _address their Lordships on
this subjkct ; that even now, in the midst of all the excite-
ment and agitation to which he was known to be opposed
he daily received proofs from different parts of the country
of the kindly recollection retained by a kind-hearted people of
one whom they truly believed to have had their interest, at
heart. No one would deny that the present state of that
country eriously called for the immediate attention of Par-
liament.-(Hear.) One year since there was an agitation in
that country which the moderate in Ireland regarded with
disfavour, and in this country was opposed with a unanimity
almost unparalleled. It was headed by an individual who,
whatever might be his claims to the gratitude of posterity, had
rendered himself, by many of his proceedings, dis-
tasteful to the large majority in this country. What
was the state of things now ? The repeal of the union
was not one degree less impracticable, but men's minds were
diverted from that simple issue to the canvassing freely and
the criticisms unfavourably much to the conduct of her Ma-
jesty's Gnvernment. In the year 1829, when introducing the
Roman Catholic Relief Bill, the present Prime Minister
in alluding to the state of Ireland, said that 7,000,000 of Ca-
tholics were united to a man. He was far from believing that
they were united on this subject, though they appeared to be
united against her Majesty's Government.—( Hear.) They were
not now favourable to repeal, but their condition was such
that he was justified in calling upon their Lordships for inquiry
into the subject. With reference to this he need only allude to
the petition which had just been presented by his Noble Friend
frem certain Protestants in Belfast. He had reason to believe
that the feeling then expressed was a growing one, that it
extended to many of the leading Protestants in Ireland,
and this result was owing greatly to the manner in which the
the question hoot been treated. He was about to move a reso-
lution of which, it might be said, that in all the principles
contained in it her Majesty's Government entirely concurred.
He candidly avowed that that was not the view with which he
moved the resolution. ( Hear, hear, from theDukc of Wellington. )
he principles professed in the resolution were principles
which the Noble Lords opposite unscrupulously opposed when
they were not in power, though it was true that they paid
scree lip horoa;e to them at the moment of their accession to
office.

(LEFT SPEAKING')

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock.

The Report of the Poor-law Commiasioners was presented
and ordered to be laid upon the table.
. . _

Mr. W. WILLIAMS presented a petition from certain
county-rate payers, residing on the line of road between Fish-
guard and Haverfordwest, complaining of the misapplication
of trust funds, and praying for Inquiry.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the Society of
Friends, expressing their disapprobation of the practice of
voting the thanks of the House to the Army for military ser-
vices, and beseeching the House to withhold its sanction from
all acts of lupine and bloodshed.
Mr. FERRAND presented a petition from the frame-work
knitters of Nottingham, Derby, and Leicester, praying the
House to appoint a Select Committee to inquire into their
grievances. . .

Mr. HUME presented a petition from a place in Scotland,
praying that the grievances of the people might be investigated
and inquired into before voting the supplies.

NORTH BRITISH RAILWAY.

Mr. FOSTER presented a petition, praying for leave to
bring in a Bill for a Railway between Edinburgh and Berwick,

COURTS OF LAW IN SCOTLAND.

Mr. WALLACE postponed until the 27th inst. his motion
fiat d for this evening on the Judicial Establishments of Scot-
land.

DON CARLOS.

Lord JOHN MANNERS gave notice that on the 29th
inst. he should move a humble address to the Crown, praying
her Majesty to u3e her influence to effect the liberation of
Don Carlos from captivity.'
CORN AND COLONIES.
Mr. HUTT gave notice that on this day fortnight he should
move a resolution, that it is expedient that the laws affecting
corn in India, Australasia, and other colonies, should be assimi-
lated to those now in force in England.
SINDE.

Sir E. COLEBROOKE gave notice that on the 27th inst.
he should bring for ward a motion, to the effect that the demands
made by the Governor-General of India upon the Ameers of
Sinde were inconsistent with the honour and true policy of this
country.
BUSINESS HOURS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS gave notice that his dropped motion,
notice of which stood on the paper for yesterday, that no new
business likely to lead to discussion be brought on in the House
after twelve o'clock at night, he proposed to bring on the 27th
instant.
Colonel RAWDON postponed the motion of which he had
given notice till 27th instant.
-PARENT AND CHILD—THE POOR-LAW.
Mr. FERRAND gave notice that he should, on a future
day, move for a copy of the Minutes of the Poor-law Commis-
sioners, which had received the sanction of the Secretary of
State for the Home Department, as to the separation of mother
and child in the Poor-law Unions.
THE BANK.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved for several unopposed returns
as to sovereigns, half-sovereigns, and the amount of deposits
and securities in the Bank of England at certain stated periods.
WOOLLEN MANUFACTURES.

Mr. ALDAM moved for an account of the quantities and
declared value of British woollen manufactures exported from
the United Kingdom in the year 1843; specifying the coun-
tries to which they were sent.
SMUGGLING

Mr. lIUME moved fora return of the number of persons
convicted on charges of smuggling.—Ordered.
ORANGE SOCIETIES (CANADA).
Mr. LEADER said that he had a question to put to the
Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies. One of the pro-
vinces of Canada being Catholic, and the Catholic religion
being establiehed iu that province by statute, and cases of vio-
lence committed by Orange societies having occurred, a Bill
was passed during the last session of the provincial Parliament
for suppressing those Orange Societies, which Act was, he be•
licved, little 'more than a transcript of one prosed by the Impe-
rial Legislature. Sir Charles Metcalfe, the Governor, had re-
served his consent to that Act, and be (Mr. Leader) wished to
ask whether that reservation was approved of by the Govern-
ment, and whether the consent of the Government was to be
refused to that Act?

Lord STANLEY said he had ascertained by inquiries that
on the 9th of December last, Sir Charles Metlalfe did reserve
his consent to an act for the suppression of those associations in
Canada. That Bill had not been transmitted to the Govern-
ment by Sir Charles Metcalfe, and not having any information
as to its contents, he could not answer the question of the Hon.
Gentleman.

Mr. LEADER said this was some time ago, and asked when
the Bill would arrive ?

Lord STANLEY said there had been one mail since the 9th
of December, lay which Sir Charles Metcalfe might have trans-
mitted the Act; but, in the circumstances in which he was
placed, it was not unreasonable to suppose that his time was
so occupied as to render it difficult, if not impossible, for him
to have transmitted it. No doubt in a short time he should re.
ceive it, but he did not think the omission of one mail formed
any great subject of complaint against the Government.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS.

Mr. C. BERKELEY begged to ask the Right Honourable
Baronet the Secretary of State whether it was the intention of
Government to introduce any Bill this session with regard to
charitable trusts, and if so, whether any provision in it would
relate to ancient charitable bequests.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was the intention of the Govern-
ment to introduce a Bill on the subject of charitable bequests.
That Bill would be introduced in the other House of
Parliament.
Mr. WALLACE wished to ask the Lord Advocate, in
virtue of the provisions of the Act 2 and 3 Vic. c. 36, passed
in July, 1t339, for the purpose of raising the salaries of the
judges in the Court of Session, and regulating the arrangements
of judicial business in that Court, whether, since the 29th day
of July, 1839, when the salaries of all the judges were raised
arid made payable forthwith, the sittings of the Court of Ses-
sion have been extended, for the purpose of " diminishing the
arrears of business," which the said Judges were empowered to
do. Idly. Whether any regulations have been passed by Act
or Acts of Sederunt, •'for carrying into effect the purposes of
the above Act," "by diminishing the arrears of business," or

otherwise, as the Judges of the Court of Session were em-
powered to do under the Act. 3dly. Whether, to his know-
edge, any Act or Acts of Sederunt have been pa.sed for the
above purposes, which may be expected to be laid upon the
table of this House this session, in terms of the Act.
The LORD ADVOCATE, who spoke in so low a tune of
voice as to be scarcely audible, was understood to say, that
various powers had been given to the Court, having the ob-
ject in view which had been stated by the Hon. Member.
With respect to the latter part of the question, he could not
say that such acts had been passed (as we understood.)
MEDICAL CHARITIES IN IRELAND.

Colonel CONOLLY wished to ask the Government, if ii
was their intention to, introduce any Bill relative to Medical
Charities in Ireland this session.

Lord ELIOT, as we understood, said it was the intention o
the Government to do so.
STATE OF IRELAND.

Mr. HUME said, before the Noble Lord (J. Russell)
proceeded with his motion, he would remind him of what
passed in the last session of Parliament with reference to ad-
journed debates. He would throw out the suggestion that if a
debate were adjourned, it should be adjourned to a particular
hour, in order to allow time for disposing of the regular
business of the day before the discussion commenced. In the
last session great inconvenience arose from the accumulation
of business, and he would suggest whether it would not be
possible to avoid that evil in future, by adopting the course
which he proposed.
Mr. ROSS said he held in his hand a petition relating to the
subject about to be brought before the Howe by the Noble Lord
the Member for the City of London. It was signed by 180 inhab-
itants of the town of Belfast and its neighbourhood, some of whom
were Presbyterians, whilst the rest belonged to the Church of
England. It contained the names of the Deputy-Lieutenant for
the County ; of merchants, manufacturers, shipowners, and re-
spectable tradesmen living in Belfast, of a few members of the
legal profession, and of one private gentleman. It set forth
that the petitioners were deeply interested in the welfare of
Ireland, and viewed its present condition with the utmost alarm ;
observing that the nation was filled with discontent
and that the conduct of her Majesty's Ministers
was such as to lead to apprehensions of civil war. The e-
titioners considered that the discontent prevailing in Ireland
was deep-seated and wide-spread, and that, until its causes were
removed, peace could not be secured on lasting foundations.
They then went on to complain of inefficient representation ;
stating that while England, with a population of about
15,000,000, had 471 representatives, Ireland, with a population
of 8,000,000 had only 105. ln England they said the Church a
the many was the Established ChurCh of the land, but
in Ireland the very reverse was the fact. In Eng-
land persons professing the religion of the many were
seated on the Bench, and in nearly all important situations.
But in Ireland scarcely any Catholics were to be seen in emi-
nent situations. All these were causes of great discontent.
There were other matters of great importance affecting the
welfare of Ireland, to which the petitioners earnestly entreated
the attention of the Legislature, especially local taxation.
The petitioners prayed that the House would take the state of
Ireland into its serious consideration, and adopt such measures
as were calculated to avert the dangers now impending in that

country.
Mr. HORSMAN wished to put a question to the Right
lion. Gentleman opposite. A return of the number of troops
stationed in Ireland during the year 1842 had been ordered by
the House; but he observed that return, which was only
placed in the hands of Hon. Members this morning, was made
out in a peculiar manner, by which it appeared that the
number of troops withdrawn from Ireland during the
last two years amounted to considerably more than those sent
to Ireland. He thought as far as he was informed that must
be incorrect. Therefore he wished to ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman, in the first place, whether he could explain how
far that was the case or not—viz., that the troops withdrawn
from Ireland, rank and file, were more numerous than those
sent there during the last two years, as from the return it ap-
peared that since the year 1841 eight regiments were sent to
Ireland, and five regiments of cavalry, and four battalions of
infantry, were withdrawn. He asked the lion. Bart. for in-
formation, because he was unable to understand the return
which was headed " A return of the number of troops quar-
tered in Ireland during the years 1833.34, and down to 1840,
inclusive." In the next place, he wished to ask whether the
Right Hon. Gentleman objected to give the returns down
to 1843 ?

Sir J. GRAHAM would have preferred that the Hon.
Gentleman should have given notice of the question. With re-
spect to the returns which had been presented to Hon. Gentle-
men that morning, they had been moved for to enable the No-
ble Viscount, the Member for Plymouth (Lord Ebrington) to
ascertain the number of troops placed at the disposal of his fa-
ther, when conducting the government of that country. That five
regiments had been withdrawn from Ireland in the course of the
time mentioned in thy:return for general service, was undoubted.
There were five regiments of cavalry and four battalions of
infantry withdrawn from Ireland, from the Ist of September,
1841, to the Ist of March, 1842. With respect to the other
question of the Hon. Gentleman, he had to state that, on the
motion of the Hon. Member for Coventry, an order had been
given to produce a return of the rank and file stationed in Ireland
from the Ist of January, 183.5, down to the Ist of January, 184:3.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite whether the Bill introduced relative to the recovery
of small debts by the. Hon. Alember for Chester was brought in
with the sanction of the Government ?

Sir J. GRAHAM said, so far from it, that the Hon.
Member for Chester had brought in his Bill as embodying a
rival scheme to the measure introduced by her Majesty's
Government.