The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-23 00:00:00

he
btlsflls6-1--13tleh a '-
lliidi-----3 cW,d?in- y pleaw
expediency;
e preps ac ce was
efcvoo- tol re
bbuet uwragseidt expedientl.at
1,1`,!_0 ent case? It would not be safs to give. the
waist.
-.-, zpl x ! e.r over the waste lands cr the funds which tiat,theiget produce; nor diddhesothmienk it was expedient
from that quarter.he
t[ltil Pricese .ef 1"d
sho.al
Britain took place,
ahottia separation from Great
power over
the
advite the House not to place
these lands in the hands of the colonists.
kr. ROEBUCK had been misunderstood. All he
iizi;..G.overnment to do was, not to introduce th
doteli„ I s 3 stem in our Austral an colonies as had been
kr.uaour North American colonies.
mistake
mist Canada,
it tot r B. SMITH considered wew waste
ed made a
lands of
era
a it least Sing a power over
the
of making th_ew
14, ti. 7 t in not retaining
oretirser.own expenses. He powerwouldmtiatl7 a
1 seventy years
lie,. ;e our colonies were a loss to this country. The
141,4 4,etsber was proceeding to short that flit,
No,
itt. lezat those which did not pay an
acc , eost this country seven and a half millionstohise,ecoex:
by the
cgtt, if we included the amount occasioned t4AoPolv Then
Ioieti,LIISRA-FiLI rose to order. In.
It legislation it was hardly correct for an li r
the sugar
etther to •
statement about
bele. , enter into a Committee 0n.._.. coon-.
to
of Hon. members
Pret f,..110 Was unwilling to do otherwise than to inter-
sie,it°,4l and liberally the right. Lie he "I 4 matters bearing en questions under discussion,o
lion
llaust protest against the course adopted 12ky th
- meet eb.
...,._ er.
/4,4 ebiIAIRMAN said he had.
(Ist, ,er to go on, in the expectation that nu
and the clues-
eas tie analogy between his etatements
permitted the Hon.
" "fore the 6 •
kr. a. Committee, ,
POritic,' 11. SMITH was showing. that the policy nowie
that adopted • ht
etecti' was not in accordance with
ask the Right
434
°ln
"I°lll4ati°a• lie wished to e_ n gotia-
ta the President of the Board of Trade if a
had ,
proposing
thaw bee evident entered into with the colonies,
in considera-
le,
ref having
should support their own charges
ne-
e
kr.i.":",/ing. the Crown revenues?
suchhh
gttise Ltbel-TCHERE was not aware of any
it e `a; tied it was bvions that it was one i
°ldd b t) • . the Government „rumen
Ilehatif
~_e extreraely dtfficulsfor
Hon. eee-- • h
theta- while he agreed with the .
ble to diminis .
the thaw'uld be desirable as far as possi
hand ntowicto
he would
Meer r.ge on this country, on the otherh
ions, in
(11::. UP
fits
the part of the British nation thewdhuatty_
eters -41ng its possessions from aggress
eart ef
At. lb„ the globe they might be.
they hsduEBTICIC asked the Govern
hey
intended to
l)toeeee changed their views, whether
present, and
sha„„ "ith the clause or put it by theforttaent, now that
Irtltilie accordance with the Noble Lord's intentions?
I'ol4 43VES hoped the Hon.
the clause as Rood w„ , Press his amendment; and
of the Imperiald the
Goreuuld then retain in the hands Member for Bolatoint
Teel Lt dent the
integrity. .
the htlie:,,Aet would remain in all its
.y
of fixing
management of the waste lands, an
'4l'. '4-MEL' adverted to the necestshiet
Land Sales
/let ttts of the colonies, and with that (Nee 11°,interfere at all; and
Orovern-
ktst 4 Waleh must be taken in Band
kr. a, this assuredly absysutrheedly was a
' eetec'nhe';‘,,,AVES said that in this very Bill tnlide
tbhoeunhdeuarhy_ ditry-,"omeW South Wales and Victoria,
down
The
dory °f Setith Australia, was laid dow_
ileverell boundary was certainly not fired,
by the sth an
t!4 V4eessary to do this was conferred
tl exercised.
lie by'et., and that Power had been recently xeadl,seLut the
of fixing
h°44-cla49 rceens undPerrated the imPehrticah could not
leatni•4B; butt hat was a question w
Per. ae disenlsed under this Bill.
• -
The question
llrthead 811AELI said the lion. Gentleman had misaP
hi ao,lld the object of his observations.
eteos3,`breerely as to the limits between colony an
the
(kat' Utbetweecolonies and •
hed to dray
th , hear, _ n the .
the wished "ee ht.') It was to that point 14,11 'oti of the Government. waste landds.---w
Itted a Elate
)„ gt A ,li thought that some
N. s , , rt
highly necessary.
the
eqr. At.:`,l:llß coloMal limits was
_with which
',,lPesaG,7l-)ERLEY felt the difficuhyded;
more precise
but at the t
'vas ii,„"`
rale Waste lands was
!44 /itese 'eh Perfectly
convinced that t....heearrangemen
Lt. agreed that.
Iteonbil,esed could not possibly last.
it
tantdo
sitt, (it 't,eilaitulicious to give the disphoastalusof_tahae
tete tleee general assembly for of w ° wz' /34114^ the'
), s Isaic e
.eetnent of .
existence.
ears to tight not come into
lion
ttenuon of .
te %140 ? Ile wished to call the a
fund in the he alfedrs
soofmae
the econeme.
bumf: ith)
those belonging to
the
manner in
'llieh jcle" Particularly°tie or two specimens of etommittce
Illteler "1", land fund was -managed. Theed-expended
placed 44,0001.*.,,11,05e management it was
to,
''eers ' "` whieh 8,0001,, went in paying amount or
iNigrau of the commission. The average auspices was
thoai to`A which went out under their salaries
rage number °
tkigra '°ool. worth a I ear, and theave
sent out by
thee,lllet'aer e2ee,°o a yea. Every emigrant
than neee''
il' Qcte-ee, or about. 100 per cent. more
ore ab-
d be m
;k4tri li'',',,"Atir, hear)Again, what could
n
It was knew
eat 14‘' the system of npt price._
i.
an
acre, the.
p4taite,,' e theY fixed an upset price of
the
effect of this?
~,,e 01,4 offered it at 55. What
was
uch better plan
,MittiDe, eruigration. It would be a l?'nd. Many as-
Ztteti t-: It atom d all sales of abe the aPPs"
-P tit), on
'le -" Visscolonies to
th ti
1, te lands of the . if this were
but even
that the
14" sot
.1)0or of these realms , _
;r
h benefit
tda ah'n moat surely be for t e•
Bible. riSir vti.,.'d he managed as well as po-
find that the ,
"eitera 410LESIVORTII rejoiced
ti)
waste lands
Il'ider ;silent did not intend to place then
y. --e also
a ‘ue
kt(l th Nitro' of the eneral asseatil distinctlylli the
Neel A liecea it
of fixing clearly an
%pap,.ofth'e/ecolonies.
of the
ee
~ qt, . ‘ _ respective
management
11'44+1„p4i1Alfi admitted
the
partofthe subject.
11i1c 4t° be the most difficult
Mahon was
l'ot 'etstooe th . li n mber for
)4e !spared a• the o .
amendment on t is la. occasion.
tcreigtt „ 4), press his
site not
with a sincere
de
to state
ehlkteact'utt!re.ore be allowed,
very shortly
4t eik "" existing difficulties,
agreed
that e urr d
He entirely
4 1') him on the subject.
Government
tb,'l4ltet,sss a wise decisionon the part of the
the manage
-44 heir determination as to placing
ement of thet
pretesttqle, the weate lands under the
mantahe clause in its
Nerabi
understood .
this respect
1,4.1414 Y, and he
colonies in
842. Ho
ea% 13e was to leave the co
Act of 1
,_
IN ' a4l they the that the eug
genie ley stood under
t° eX r opinion
was
strong f r Sheffield t
kee.offered hP e jos aion. Member 0 n
amendment
°I tlilP°rtatit, 37 el° hear.) It was ,a
of the cone
"cl 4 aet of 184( eara
e well wortn
y derstood, it
etit allot,
of
_. 2, an on
t. .3he tm
between
tha et° neeroe_.!he Governmteln A
define the limitshese
limits
4 ritorteties, wszlYd atVlcorreecthey
lands within those tauthorities,
1110,4 tle,e,wel to be leave
by the colonial
be under
-le
-'
alqthie managed
those limits should
That
4'
41°44°1
°f
the g.
beyond
1 government.—(Hear.)likely to pre-
Nt 'Jght a greatzta.
periraeyement,and
one
in future. It
):041rttiell solifusionlmanipd angry discussiton.
possession
of
le'Ytljetsiti tor the Ctown undispu d
owed and defined,
kal a Itt Witho t h limits se narrow
access to
the ecere
of
Icountry ready
Illtete tautly e people this
kr
clls a
ter ; E. Tee kt
„I l' la ,MISONT said the Noble
Lord had ma
A
He has. first, ru -port ' . • his Bill.
s 1
Retied tt, ant alteration in
the
'A Mae
*nlNI 486 e agement of the waste 1
teet ~nhly, and he had
liilleehieu‘ertlarera from colonialw_
en
thci)WLeth.st 0, d. was asked, to,Yelcein'_fle intended to withhold In al 41 bat After a few days' lands under.e
ma-
-Bill
withdrawn h
assemblies
h be. introduced
.
tN lea eeule do and stated that this privilege
consideration
ad 'm to ~._ ,wn
the gone steaks the
andconce.seionos rci_%atttieuf,llo to the coloullstatise
htite theraelo.
it
with. which the ltotgether.
educed his
from
Noble
the
Government
the
This
when they heard of
had been re-
measure
much of it
to
tortil,tttributeible ttvoatshelmerectations raised
the i,,! ttetertient. Re did not quite understand
say hew the Noble
by
y whether
the proposition
of th4Rht lam).
Baroret, in describing
stated
that ''
11°0. ttnd .Learned Member for .
Sheffield,
the colonists
14reesithia
the
limits prescribed
lands, or
Wheihts lailtVe thelimarreweement of the
waste Government?
Si
et
C.t...tselvss to be reserved to the Home et
--wkliA.l‘l—To the colonists..
Right Hon. Baronet
was,t,''. DENISON—Then the Rig (Mr. E. Dem-
-11,,W8)• Point a fact' a supporter of
.h.is
submitted. to
`4S li Pro Position The new proposition
too much 113-
NI, Ills /ltst: by th N bl I ord was of lor .
and dele-
ser • "o he da ° ° ' *thout due notice
under-
eerti°ll, Tula thisP°'sed of
wtio which the- e
Hecbe before
the (nary for
the disatch
had alluded ought to
to
llitok Ile W e Colonies-
his amendment, reserving
elf eh ould withdraw
report.
, eke ir.ery to propose it on the
Committee to wee
fistt anti
°n warned the
proposition of th
eAtieQ --'4Oll before adopting the
He saw
10(141441e and Learned Member for Sheffield.__,limiting the
1)0 Praeti 1 difficulties in the way w
tilderi ea
her be!.
Noble Lord
"EIARCX could suggest to the
within
t i the limits
tt ilia thetald •to interfere wt-
with a power
eel of permit
ny
" kle esetlY, and that was a land company -gat price they' pleased.
which
to . Giteele c-thought the principle
upon
should
hsProeecti
vr. AM
_e
limits
of the colonyhe
t next
iikletriet, 44
d war at thatrespect the
waste lands, and
tathere was
tie e that they shoule be definite. At present there South
emit whatever assigned to the colony et
Hon. Member
for 0 to the north• He agreed with the
should be
terie,qtqfield that the boundary of each colony
With re-
itcl dtaned • respect to waste lands.
...knee , , with . _
d but contracted to be ,
nnted.'"theiaieds not granted,
Without the
at be 'narrowed. the Im-
eet4l„.ts the lasaldtasiltea should
beld under the control ofhe
should
Ntils"°runeenetti• but within the limits
aso as to place
thehise ads parture' from the Act of 1842, e
to at the
t -,. eetnosel of the colony. .
t would receive
t/ete4„ u• BIISSELL said the
believed,subjec a power
ruder `tulsider t. There was, he
fNew South
Pe ,t the Act af
‘".
. to the limits ° with it
eetlAes; he, a 0
there.B42 relaetive
difficulties connected
subject must
11;1 the ii,,, s _ were .
3 the whole
°tinted 'IMS of other colonic ,
, k aetec.,i•
• pro-
doctrine .
..,
E°ed
tc;, .111A.11T thought that the.er for shefieeid
444 e- 11 the Ron, and Learned Member
t the Meln-
bee ?°tlntenanced by. the Right Hon. Baroneion.
AS h°
itlilde°l:olliPen,
proposalreqired serious consider.at this Bill re-
'tttlei,rl°o4 the it was this, that in
the limits
of CC" 4constitntifor New South
Wales
s within
1/}delje,,°olony should be accurately definedd
that all
the the eon Ct - was to exist, an
iii,( te,. s 1 ution
colony
q Cl 4 .',Lory beyond the
limits of the
with
a
rizht oe reserved to the Crow?),
land so re-
tturetl° the Crown to make grants
oft"
constitution.
seeing"OD!'etl eXcludcd from the scope of theaccurately defined,
and the limits of the colony
law or what
tons . grant mbeyond them, under what
esht . ads
.
t hold
his utiou would thesuch a grant person receiving a
pro
Air Percy?
of the
title :,.,I,ITALPoLE admitted that the difficulties
Id not at
Pre:,,L,' Were e great that the Committee could
matter
at
.....4. come to
st decision upon it. As te
to with-
dpavv42eat stood the Noble Lord had consented
by
( the a & Power conferred on the colonial legislature,,T.e.
la 3 were
thee,' clause of granting waste
lards. They
related
. t,,,tore driven back to the 13th
to
clause'
Stanley's Act.
14114 e Bale
hah of waste lends, and to Lord
ought the Ron. and Learned Member for Sheffield
' 4440
Within tbe
it most inillunble suggeotion•

TILE

-------
limits of tLe colony the local legislature should have
the fullest power of dealing with all matters relating to
the colony. It was of the utmost importance in grant-
ing privileges to the colony that they should he liberal
and complete.—(Hear.) In answer to the Hon. and
Learned Member for Newerlt, he might remark that
the Crown might have the power of extending the
jurisdiction of the colony from time to time, or of
creating a new colony. The question of waste land
was particularly important at the present moment.
In New South Wales the squatting district was
some 1,600 miles by 300 broad. He had been
told that several persons had obtained land in that dis-
trict for sheep-walks—some to the extent of 150,000
acres, some 300,000, and to the extent of 800,000 acres
—(Hear.) He hoped the Government would consider
the question, and give to the colonial legislatre the
fullest power over the lands within the limits of the co-
lony, reserving to the Crown the right as to lands be-
yond that limit.
Mr. MACGREGOR thought the question of waste
lands a most important one as regarded the future pros-
perity of the colony, but did not think that the system
hitherto pursued in our Australian colonies, though
wisely introduced, had either been judicious or success-
ful. He concurred in the opinion expressed by the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon, and thought
the suggestions of the Hon. and Learned Member for
Sheffield deserved the consideration of Goveonment.
Sir. W. MOLES WORTH remarked that it was pro-
vided that colonial Acts were to have force only if they
were not "contrary to the law of England." He thought
confusion would arise from the retaining of these

words.
After a few words from Mr. ROEBUCK,
Mr. ANSTEY proposed to meet the view of the Hon.
Baronet (Sir W . Slot esworth) by substituting the words
" this Act" for " the law of England."
The ATTORNEY". GENERAL defended the clause
as it stood. The clautie declared that only such Acts of
the colonial legislaturk, should be operative as were not
repugnant to the law of England.
Sir W. MOLES WOR,TH said be objected to one part
of the Bill, because there were a great number of Eng-
lish statutes not applicable to the colonies.
After a few words fsora Mr. ROEBUCK and Lord J.
RUSSELL,
Mr. SCOTT suggested that the portion of the measure
relative to the disposition of waste lands, which was a
very importast part of the question which they had to
consider, should be withdrawn for the present, until they
had gone through the Bill.
After a short conversation, in which Mr. ADDERLET,
Mr. Wynn, and other lion. Members took part,
Mr. SANDFORD said he thought liberality, like
charity, ought to commence at home, and that England
ought to be afforded, while she professed so much gene-
rosity to her colonies, the means of sending out her
surplus population to her dependencies. He did not
consider that this country should be deprived of what he
considered one of the greatest advantages to be derived
from oar colonies.
Another desultory conversation ensued, when it was
intimated by Lord J. RUSSELL that the discussion on
tho points referred to could be re-opened on the bringing
up of the report.
Clause 13 was then agreed to.
Clauses 14, 15, and 16, were then agreed to.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished that a better provision should
be made for the adjudication of questions arising be-
tween the colonies themselves.
On clause 17 having been proposed,
Mr. C. LUSHINGTON ruse to move the amendment
of' which he had given notice, to provide for the omission
of such parts cf that and the preceding clause as pro-
vided for the signification of her Majesty's pleasure on
every Bill which should bo passed by the council in any
of the colonies referred to, altering the sums allotted for
the sustentation of public worship, as mentioned in the
third part of the schedules A, B, and C. In doing so. he
said, although he intended to confine his observations
strictly to the terms of his notice, he could not
avoid expressing the satisfaction which he felt
at the introduction, by the Noble Lord at
the head ( f the Government, of a Bill which
was calculated to conciliate the colonies, and more
especially as recent transactions had contributed to im-
pair their affection for the mother country.—(Hear,)
Ho should regret that anything which he said, either
in or out of that House, should be construed for a mo-
ment to imply that ho wished to cast any disrespect on
the administration of the Noble Lord; but there were
some portions of the present Bill to which he entertained
special objections. He found there was one branch of
the legislative matter proposed by it, both injurious to
the feelings of the colonists, and calculated to produce
extensive social mischief. It was provided that a sum
of 49,0001. was to be divided among four churches in
the colonies, those churches being the Church of Eng-
land, the Roman Catholic Church, the Presbyterian
Church, and the Church of the Wesleyan Methodists.
Now he believed that such an arrangement would only
lead to religious animosity and contention.
The arrange-
ment went on the supposition that the inhabitants of
the colonies were nut prepared voluntarily to contribute
to ti.e maintenance of those particular forms of worship
which they professed. But that opposition was, he be-
lieved perfectly unfounded, as appeared from the large
sums which had already been raised in the colonies for
that purpose. Religious discord had been the bane of
England, of Ireland, of Scotland, and of Canada, and
the greatest evils would result from inoculating the
Australian colonies with its noxious influence. The in-
habitants of Victoria had aunounced their determination
to oppose that clause, and he felt persuaded that it
would meet with general disapprobation throughout the
colonies. The Lion. Gentleman concluded by movint,
his amendment.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he wished to remind the
Committee L.f the precise state of that question. The
system in force in the colony of New South Wales was
this—there was a very moderate sum apportioned be-
tween the four different churches in the colony; and the
object of the provision to which his Hon. Friend had
just offered his opposition was to maintain that arrange-
ment to this extent, at least, that it could not be altered
without obtaining the consent of the Crown in the
mother country. Ho confessed he believed that ar-
rangement would give general satisfaction in the colo-
nies; and he could state that the introdution of the sys-
tem had met with their very decided approval; while
the previous system of giving peculiar privileges to the
Church of England had given rise to consideruble
religious contention. For his part he was not prepared
to encourage a system of absolute voluntaryism, and the
removal cf any contribution by the state towards the
maintenance of any form of religious worship. All he
would ask was, that these moderate endowments which
were now provided, not for any class of Christians, but
fur those great divisions which comprised the immense
majority of the people of the colonies, should not be
disturbed. The only question new before the Corn-
mitte was the principle of the grant, which he trusted
the Committee would net hesitate to adopt.—(Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK was surprised that the Government
should blow hot and cold in this manner. They began
by saying, " We give you the power of making a con-
stitution—we do not want to coerce you." But on look-
ing at the schedules, which always excited his suspicion
when they contained items of expenditure, what did he
find? The first item was the salary of governor, of
which the colony could not get rid without the appro-
bation of her Majesty. The Right Hon. Gentleman con-
sidered that the measure would satisfy the colony. If
so, why not let the colonises judge for themselves? Why
interfere in the matter? He would tell the Committee
why they interfered. In the colonies an attempt was
always made to settle what is called the civil list, and
every colony had quarrelled with the mother country on
account of that list.—(Hear.) That was the cause of the
American quarrel?—(Hear, hear.) A rebellion took
place in Canada on a similar account. Millions of money
had been enpended, but annexation was rendered almost
inevitable, and this country had no power over the Ca-
nadas. In the present case the moment the colonists
should acquire sufficient power, resistance would be
offered. He desired to retain the colonies and extend
them, but he was convinced the only means of doing so
was to give them full power and control over the regu-
lation of their own concerns.—(Hear, hear.) He con-
sidered a governor appointed by the Crown the sub-
stantial connecting link between the colonies and the
empire of Great Britain. If the Government wanted
to pay a governor as their servant, let them pay him out
of English money. But if he was to be paid by the colo-
nists, the colonists ought to fix the amount.—(Hear.)
The schedule which he held in his hand was somewhat
remarkable. The governor of New South Wales *as to
have a salary of 5,0001., the chief justice 2,0004 the two
puisne judges 1,5001. each; and then there was a lump-
ing sum for " salaries of the attorney and solicitor
general, crown solicitor, and contingent and miscellane-
ous expenses of the administration of justice throughout
the colony," of 19,000/.—making altogether 29,0001.—
(Hear, hear.) Then there was the colonial secretary
and his department, 6,500/4 the colonial treasurer and
his department, 4,0001.; the auditor general and his de-
partment, 3,0001.; salary of clerk and miscellaneous ex-
penses of council, 5001.; and pensions, 2,5001.; making
16,0001. And then came the enormous and lumping
sum for what was called public worship, of 28,0001. So
that altogether the Bill would fix upon the colony no less
a sum than 78,000/.—(Hear, hear.) Now was this in the
spirit of the Bill? It the people were fit to govern
themselves, why were they not competent to fix the sala-
ries of their officers?—(Dear, hear.) The Bill also pro-
vided that any saving in the amount should be reserved
to the use of her Majesty, or rather Majesty's adminis-
tration. He considered this proposition an insult to the
whole family, and he should move at the proper time the
emission of tho whole schedule.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said the Right Honourable Gentleman
objected to one dominant church, because he thought it
might lead to great discord, and was in favour of four
churches, because it would put down discord by bring-
ing together such a large majority as would overpower
the minority. But, as the population increased, it was
not unlikely that the system would be changed, and that
the discord under the new plan would be greater than
any which had hitherto prevailed.—(Hear, hear.) He
would ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern-
ment to point out the wisdom of fixing sums of money
for the support of certain religious persuasions. If there
was any one question more than another which the
people could decide for themselves it was that of reli-
gious establishments.—(Hear, hear.) There was one
important question connected with the subject, which
was very likely to come before Parliament at no distant
period--he meant the question of the clergy reserves in
Canada, which had borne fruits of the bitterest kind:
As the law now stood, these reserves were arranged
under the provisions of an Act of the Imperial Par-
liament, and the Canadian Parliament had not the
power, which this Bill would give to the Australian
colonies, of making any new arrange
coming to the Imperial Parliament for an Act.—(sear,
hear.) He did not see the necessity for an Impe-
rial Parliament providing for the teaching of religion
among the colonists. If the emigrants to the United
States could frovido religious teaching for. themselves,
riurely the persons congregatiog to Australia ought to

SUN', LONDON,

lave the same privilege.--(Hear, brae.) He trusted the
Noble Lord would withdraw this provision, and thus take
away what would otherwise to a source of discord among
a people to whom we wished to give institutions calcu-
lated to promote their permanent welfare and peace.
Mr. LABOUCIIERE said the case of Australia was
different from that of Canada. It was true the arrange-
ment with respect to the clergy reserves in Canada could
not be altered without an Act of Parliament. But if this
Bill should pass, it was riot correct to say that the reli-
gious arrangements of the colony could not be altered
without an Act of Parliament; for they might be al-
tered by the colony, with the sanct'on of the Crown.—
(Hear and a laugh.) No present inconvenience could
arise from the system laid down, and good cause ought
to be shown for the alteration of an arrangement which
had hitherto worked satisfactorily.
Mr. IL K. SEYAIER entertained no great partiality
for a system which endowed four churches.—(Hear.)
He thought the c=olonists were entitled to have the entire
control of their own affairs, and was of opinion that they
would act wisely is providing an endowment for religion,
because it would show the emigrants that they would
possess those religious advantages which they had en-
joyed in this country.—(Hear.) He believed that great
jealousy would be excited among religious bodies by the
present plan, and that it would perpetuate a system of
religious discord iu the colony.
Mr. ANSTEY supported the clause. He trusted that
Hon. Members would consent to waive their opposition,
and to retain the clause.
Mr. ADDERLEY could not understand how the
principle of endowing four churches could be defended.
The attempt would fail, for it was impossible that
they could conciliate one church or the other. He
was, however, anxious that vested interests should be
protected.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not think that Hon. Mem..
hers took a proper view of this question, when they
attempted to argue that this was a scheme for endow-
ing certain churches in Australi:. In the year 1835
the Secretary of State for the Colonies, finding great
complaints existing in Australia, in consequence of the
people supposing that there was only one church pro-
tected in the colony, a provision was made by which
four of the principal, being the most numerous
churches in the colony, should each have a separate
sum alloted to them. A bargain was likewise made,
a condition of which was that a certain sum should
be granted for building churches in proportion to
the contributions of the inhabitants of the districts.
We accordingly found that these sums were paid for a
series of years; we found that these churches had been
built, and that individuals in the different districts had
largely subscribed their money. We therefore proposed
to continue the establishments which we found already
in existence, and that any alterations required to be
made in regard to them should be first submitted to the
confirmation of her Majesty by the advice of her Go-
vernment. The Hon. Member for Westminster would
vote nothing at all for vested interests, but proposed
that the whole of these establishments should be done
away with, and that those clergymen who had gone out
to the colony under certain well-understood arrange-
ments should be altogether deprived of any emolument.
He thought that this would be most unjust towards the
colony; and in respect to what had been stated to be
the feelings of the colonists on this subject, we can only
say that we have not found any perceptible degree of
complaint upon this head. If it should appear that this
system was no longer agreeable to the colony, it would
then, no doubt, be desirable that the Crown should have
the matter laid before it. He thought that if we gave
a preference to one of those churches, and said to the
other three that they should be deprived of their revenue,
that such a course would be most unjust, and that, if the
majority of the people recommended it, the Crown
should have an opportunity to consider it.
Mr. LUSHINGTON explained. He never proposed
that thii present grants should be cancelled, but that the
question should be left to the general feeling of the colo-
nists to determine.
Mr. SCOTT said there was no point upon which the
colonists felt more sore than upon these schedules of
appropriation. That was the great grievance in the
Stanley Bill.
Mr. HAWES had heard no reports of any dissatis-
faction being felt in the colony on this subject. On the
contrary, it was considered that the proposed arrange-
ments on the whole were satisfactory. There was a
power of alteration reserved, in respect to which the
Crown would be disposed to pay every respect.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 54
Against it ... ... 203
Majority in favour of the original
clause ... ... —149
After a short discussion as to whether the Bill should
be proceeded with,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained
leave to sit again on Thursday.
STAMP DUTIES.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to Mr. Disraeli, stated
the House was to understand that the stamp duties wore
to be discussed on Friday.
PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL.
This Bill was re-committed proforma.
The Bill was then ordered to be reprinted, and re-
ported on Monday next.
METROPOLITAN INTERMENTS BILL.
Sir G. GREY moved the second reading of this Bill.
Lord D. STUART objected to the Bill being pressed
ea in this rapid manner. He was extremely anxious that
•he Government should prevent the interment of the
dead in large towns. The Bill gave an enormous power
of rating and many lucrative offices, and generally in-
srcased the patronage in the hands of the Government.
He trusted that ample time would be given for discuss-
ing a Bill containing 60 clauses. The Government,
which had delayed such a measure too long, were now
pressing it on too hurriedly.
Mr. FORBES remarked this was not a time of the
night for discussing a Bill of this importance.
After a few words from Mr. LACY,
Sir G. GREY said the Biil would be fixed for Com-
mittee for Friday next.
Mr. BRIGHT remarked that was a very short time
for considering such a Bill.
Sir G. GREY said he had been asked for a fortnight,
and he gave nearly that time.
Mr. WYLD observed that the Bill included peculiar
provisions. It was not a proper Bill to be discussed in
a Committee of the whole House. The Government of
the country proposed to become undertakers. He hoped
to see a Select Committee appointed to consider the proe
visions of the Bill.
Mr. MACKINNON supported the Bill.
The Bid was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed on Friday week.
RAILWAY ABANDONMENT BILL.
The Railway Abandonment Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed on Monday next.
NAVAL PRIZE BALANCE.
In Committee of the whole House,
Mr. PARKER moved a resolution that the naval
prize balance should be paid out of the Consolidated

Fund.
Sir 3. GRAHAM asked what was the amount of the
balance ?
Mr. PARKER—About 30,0001.
The resolution was agreed to.
OFFICIAL SALARIES.—COMMITTEE.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that the following
Members constitute the Select Committee on official sala-
ries :—Lerd J. Russell, Mr. W. Patten, Mr. Bright, Sir
J. Y. Buller, Mr. Cobden, Mr. Beckett, Mr. Napier, Mr.
Home Drummond, Mr. W. Evans, Sir W. Molesworth,
Mr. Henley, Mr. Ellice, Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Walter, and
Mr. Deedes.
The question having been put,
Colonel SIBTHORP rose, amidst much laughter,
and observed, that instead of appointing this " select"
Committee—(A laugh)—the Noble Lord at the head of
the Government had better have said candidly—"l mean
to take care of myself and of my own salary."—(Laugh-
ter.) "I shall look after my friends, and I will stand
by them as long as they stand by me ; übi mel, ibi apes.
—(Renewed laughter) Let them support me, and they
shall have plenty of turtle and venison."—(Laughter.)
Ho (Colonel Sibthorp) felt bound to protest against
such a partial and packed Commitiee as that now
proposed. There seemed to him to be something
in the atmosphere of the Treasury bench which rendered
men, when they got there, quite different beings from
what they had been before.—(A laugh.) It was his
painful duty to say that he looked with extreme suspi-
cion upon all official men; and in such a case as this it
was net likely that they would cry " stinking fish."—
(Much laughter.) He did not know how the Committee
would go to work, but he knew very well what would
be the result of their investigation. He considered the
appointment of such a Committee most delusive and un-
satisfactory. He entertained groat respect for the Noble
Lord (Lord J. Russell) in private life, and he admired
his transcendent abilities, though he was somewhat
cunning—(A laugh)—but it was evident that this step
was only a ruse de guerre, and that the Noble Lord
did not want to be disturbed in his rest. The Noble
Lord was attempting to get rid of one of the most
important questions that could be considered, espe-
cially under the existing circumstances of the country,
when poverty was staring them in the face, and people
of all classes were suffering. If the Noble Lord really
meant to reduce salaries why did he not come forward
fearlessly and submit to the House those reductions
which, in his opinion ought to be made ? But the
Noble Lord said, " You shall not consider the matter in
the House ; it shall be inquired into upstairs, clausis
foribus." He (Colonel Sibthorp) considered that the
Noble Lord's conduct, in thus referring the subject to a
secret conclave—a Star Chamber—was unworthy a Mi-
nister of this country, and was an insult to the British
House of Commons.—(A laugh.) He called upon the
Noble Lord to give up this truckling, secret, underhand
Star Chamber mode of proceeding, and to take up the
position he ought to maintain. If the Noble Lord would
pursue a manly, open, honest course, and would show
himself to be the friend of the people, he (Colonel Sib-
thorp) would be proud to render him his humble as-
sistance in maintaining his authority.—(Leisetter.)
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. LABOUCHERE brought in the Mercantile Ma-
rine Bill, which was read a first time.
The House adjourned at Twenty minutes to One
o'clock.

EVENING,