The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-16 00:00:00

nisterial benches.) He should state a few facts in support of
this assertion.—( Renewed cries of " question.") He would
state these facts, and although he should not publicly meutisn
the names of those parties, yet he should give them in private
to any Hon. Gentleman. If all the statements of the Noble
Lord were true, they would justify any course of legislation;
but he denied their truth. He had a letter from Bolton from
one manufacturer, which proved that the proportion of females
in his mill was in the ratio of 131 men to 59 females, and that
after the age of 21, the greater number of fe-
males went home to attend to their domestic duties.
In the whole of that establishment there were not three mar-
ried women employed, though seven or eight hundred persons
were engaged in it. He had another case of an establishment
about ten miles north of where he lived, and the same results
were observable there. It employed 342 hands, at average
wages of 9s. 61,4 d. per week ; there were 32 cottages on the
place, each having six inmates, the average income of each
family tieing 11. 13s. a week. None of the heads of
these families had ever received any parish relief, except in
the case of one widow who was injured by the burning of the mill.
In the county of Dorset, the Noble Lord 111113 C know that one-
eighth of the whole population—not of the labouring classes
only—but of the aristocracy, the clergy, the bankers, the
traders—one-eighth of the whole population had beers in the
receipt of parochial relief—of the labourers one-sixth bad
been relieved by the parish. In the case of another establish-
ment. the average weekly earnings of each family were 455. a
week, and the annual average income of the 154 families em-
ployed in it was 117/. 7s. 9d. The Hon. Member for Man-
chester had said that those who had migrated from the
agricultural districts to the manufacturing, had had no
reason to repent their change. He would state one case,
and if the Members for Suffolk were present he would advise
them, when they next met their constituents, to explain it to
them. The man was an agricultural labourer in Suffolk, earn-
ing himself its. per week ; his eldest son, 2s. a week ; and
the next, a boy of about twelve years of age, Is. a week ; he
had ten children and a wife; they had from the parish an al-
lowance of a peck of flour per week, value ls. 4d., mak-
ing 12s. 4d. per week for the whole family. That family
had increased since he went into Lancashire by one ; he had
now eleven children, and was earning 555. a week, or ss. a-head
for the family. There was another case of a man who came from
Buckinghamshire, who afterwards went back to see his friends,
but on being asked how he should like to return altogether,
said the people in Buckinghamshire worked so hard, and lived
so badly, he infinitely preferred remaining where he was. He
thought he had said enough—(lronical cheers from the Tory
benches)—apparently two much—( Renewed cheers)—for
Hon. Members who were anxious to hear only one side of this
important case, and many of whose had not heard even that.
—( Cheers.) He admitted that, notwithstanding all this, there
were great evils in these districts ; many persons were still out
of employment, and the fluctuations of trade produced great
calamities there. It was for the House to consider
whether it was not implicated in some measures that
might have produced those fluctuations. He was not about to
charge the Noble Lord with anything he might wish to repel.
He admitted, from his speech to-night, that he had no right
to suppose but that the Noble Lord was perfectly honest in the
view he took of the manufacturing districts. But he must say
he thought the Noble Lord, in looking at the manufacturing
districts, turned his telescope the right way, and brought all
the evils near, and made them very distinct. But when he
looked to the agricultural district he came from, he turned the
telescope the other way—all the evils were thrown to a dis-
tance, and brought down to the smallest dimensions. He (Mr.
Bright) believed that the amendment that had taken place in
the manufacturing districts of the north of England, since the
time when the respected father of the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head of the Government was engaged in the manufac-
turing business, had not been the consequence of any legislative
interference, but had been caused by the growing intelligence
of the public mind. If they looked at schools, lunatic asylums,
or other establishment!, they would find that the inmates were
better treated now, and with more humanity, than they were
in the time of their fathers. From this arose the improve-
ments which took place in the manufacturing districts of the
north of England. He did not charge the Noble Lord with
any malice towards the manufacturers. He did not conceive
that the Noble Lord could have any inducement to harbour
such a feeling ; but he believed the Noble Lord was as com-
pletely deluded by the persons he was connected with as he
possibly could be. He would not obtain much credit from the
manufacturers of Lancashire till he had obtained his informa-
tion from more respectable and trustworthy persons
than those whom he had employed. He (Mr.
Bright) well knew the characters from whom
his information was obtained. There were two books dedicated
to the Noble Lord, one was " A Description of the Experi.
ences and Sufferings of William Dodd, once a Factory La-
bourer, and now a Poor Cripple ;" the other was called
" Facts Illustrative of the Factory System," in letters to the
Noble Lord by the said William Dodd. lie would not enter
into his statements. It was not necessary for him to do so, for a
very large proportion of his statements was utterly false, and
the rest were grossly and malignantly exaggerated. He says
that " at the age of 32 he was done up." That was the phrase.
The fact was that he was compelled to leave the factory on
account of his gross immorality. He (Mr. Bright) had in
his pocket a letter from this person, in which he stated that
the Noble Lord used him as long as he could get anything out
of him, and then cast him off when no further use could be
made of him.' He also stated that the Noble Lord gave him
dinners at his own house, and showed him to his visitors as the
crippled factory man ; and that, when he wrote to the Noble
Lord for the balance of an account, the Noble Lord replied by
reminding him of the many dinners he gave him, and of the
usage he gave him as an object of charity.—(Loud cries of
" Oh.") He (Mr. Bright) believed the Noble Lord was
perfectly honest, but he ought to take care to obtain his in-
formation from a more respectable and trustworthy quarter.
He would not go further into the subject.—( Cries of "Hear,
hear" from the Ministerial benches.) There were 1,600,000
inhabitants in Lancashire, 900,000 of whom were employed.
—( Hear, hear.) This was mere than could be said of any
district of equal extent in the world.—( Hear, hear.) He
admitted that the hours of working, for men, *omen, and chil.
dren, were longer than was desirable. But this need
not have }seen so had riot the wealth of the country
been so unfairly distributed, and the people so much burdened
with taxation imposed on them by the party opposite.
This fell heaviest on those who were connected with trade.
From 50 to 100 per.nt. of the value was imposed on the im-
portation of raw cotton. The firm with which he was con-
nected paid 75 per cent. and five-sixths of the quantity im-
ported was re-exported without a drawback.—(Hear, hear.)
He had paid 1,0001. upon the bricks which formed his factory,
while there was no duty on those used for agricultural pur-
poses.—( Hear, hear. )They took away a portion of the bread,
and put their hand into the sugar basin, of every poor man.—
(Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") Under these
circumstances, it was no wonder that there should be an ex-
cessive competition, when the people fought for their
very existence.—( Hear, hear.) He had beard the Right
Hon. Baronet, a few sessions ago, when he sat on this side of
the House, and was hungering for the opposite side, deliver a
peroration which was the most disgraceful he had ever heard.
—( Loud cries of " Oh, oh," " Order, order," and " Chair,
chair.") If the Right Hon. Baronet believed what he said he
was no doubt right in speaking as he had done, but, contrasted
with what he had said that night with respect
to the manufacturing districts, no two things could
possibly be uttered which were more opposite in their
tendencies. The Government might pass or reject that clause
for ten hours as they chose. He hoped they would give holi-
days to the operatives so as that their health might not suffer ;
but now, when, the manufacturing interests were only just re-
covering from the effects of the distress under which they were
lately labouring, if they passed that measure, they might be as-
sured that the next session of Parliament would not pass over
without their being called upon to repeal it. He should vote
for the Bill as it was originally introduced.

Lord ASHLEY thought he had some right to make a few
observations on the speech of the Hon. Gentleman who had
just sat down. The charge which the Hon. Gentleman had
insinuated against him called for some observation. He (Lord
Ashley) threw himself upon the indulgence and protection of
the House, and he requested all the gentleman he saw around
him to exercise their influence in making the Hon. Member
for Durham pursue his charge and state his case.—(Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.)
Mr. BRIGHT asked what was the charge the Noble Lord
meant ?—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") He had told the Noble Lord
the instruments with which he carried on his operations in Lan-
cashire were not worthy of his cause nor of him. He had
told the Noble Lord, that he believed he had been misled by
that man, and he was prepared to prove that those gentlemen
were of a character whose evidence he would not take with re-
spect to agriculture, and the Noble Lord ought not to take it
with respect to manufactures.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," mingled
with cheers and expressions of disapprobation. )
Lord A SIILEY—No charge ! No charge of unpaid ba-
lances ! No wilfully premeditated parade of cripples ! If the
Hon. Member said he had made no charge—if before the
assembled Commons of England, he was prepared to assert
that he made no charge, then he (Lord Ashley) could
assure the Hon. Gentleman, with infinite satisfaction, that
that he would let the matter rest where it was. Those
who heard the Hon. Gentleman could best understand whether
a charge had been made—those who heard the Hon. Gentle-
man could best tell whether that charge had been maintained.
—(Ministerial cheers.) But now he would appeal to the House.
Had he (Lord Ashley), in the course of the long speech that
the House had indulged him in hearing from him—had he said
any one thing cal3ulated to cause personal ill-feeling, or uttered
one sentence that could exasperate a single individual, or thrown
into the discussion of this great mat ter a sentiment or expres:ion
.that ought not to be found in treating of to sacred a subject?
If the lion. Gentleman thought that that was the way in which
he could maintain his own cause, he (Lord Ashley) must say
he was grieved for it, because he thought it was not suited to
the dignity of the assembly in which they sat, nor suited to
the dignity of the honourable Socie to which the Hon. Gen-
tleman belonged.—( Ironical cheers.)

Mr. BRIGHT said the Noble Lord was entirely mistaken if
he supposed that he (Mr. Bright) should judge of the Noble
Lord's character by the man whom he told him not to trust.
Now he did tell the Noble Lord plainly, that letters from that
individual, stating what he (Mr. Bright) had stated, were now
in his hand.—(Cries of " Read, read.") He would hand the
letters with pleasure to the Noble Lord.—(Cries of " Read,"
and considerable confusion). And further he would
tell the Noble Lord that that individual had
offered for a sum of money to an intimate
friend of his (Mr. Bright) a large number of other letters,
which that friend of his was too fastidious to lay hold of ;
arid be further told the Noble Lord not to have anything mare
to do with that man. He acknowledged that the Noble Lord
had honest convictions upon the question ; but he repeated,
that the instrument with which he worked was not worthy of
him or his real benevolence.—( Cries of " Read," " Hear, hear,"
and considerable confusion, during which the Honour-
able Gentleman in vain endeavoured to get a hearing.) The
writer of the letter proceeded,to state, that having strained
at a gnat he would not swallow a camel.--(Laughter.) He had
never received the wages to which he was entitled. Ile had
been instructed to go down to Turton, and to get what
evidence he could. At his own expense he treated
the people with beer, and, in his necessity, he was
compelled to write to Lord Ashley to request a remittance.—
(Laughter.) Mind (said Mr. Bright), Ido not believe one
word of this man's statement.—(Cheers and laughter.) Dodd
went on to say that he received a very angry letter from Lord
Ashley. (Cheers and laughter.) He (Dodd) had
been made a fool of by the tarty, but, if he were
at liberty, " he could a tale unfold."—(Great laughter.)
He (Mr. Bright) never spoke of the Noble Lord but in terms
of respect, and with a full acknowledgment of the benevolence
of his motives.—( Oh, oh, and cheers.) He believed that the
Noble Lord wished as he wished, that all information upon this
subject should be derived from persons who could be relied on.
—( Hear, hear. ) He stated the,,e facts for the purpose of giving
the Noble Lord an opportunity of rebutting the statements.
Lord ASHLEY said it was perfectly true that he had re-
ceived letters from the person referred to. But that person
had never dined at his table.—(Laughter.) He had come to
his house, and was perkaps received with hospitality—but it
was by the servants.—( Hear, and laughter.) He agreed,
however, with the Hon. Member that Dodd was a person upon
whom no reliance could he placed.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARBURTON (who rose amidst loud cries of " Ad-
journ") said that he thought the matter was too important to
be disposed of at that hour, and he should, therefore, move that
the Chairman should report progress and ask leave to sit again.
The motion was carried without opposition, and the House
resumed.

In reply to a quostion from Captain PECHELL,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he would bring on the New
Poor-law on Friday next.

The House then adjourned at One o'Clock.