The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-22 00:00:00

--- -----
discontinued altogether out-door relief. It was 5
thativing out-door relief preserved human life, but
didnot think it had an such effect. He would in 5
port of his opinion, adduce the evidence of a Ref
Catholic priest, who stated that the people died by vid
sands, and added, that he thought nearly as nlanYhe
as if there had been no out-door relief, and that h
less misery would have arisen if none had been gi_
Now, this gentleman was, oriinally
door relief. With regard to the debts of the ahose
they left the causes which led to the accumulahtelerns
those debts remain, it would be useless to Faltee
the first instance. On these grounds he suphsrhhe
views of his Noble Friend, and if he chose_te divide
would vote with him. pith
The Earl of WICKLOW said he concurred ter
in favour oto
resolution of the Committee, but there was )3:titi
difference between that resolution and the presetioarn
resolution proposed to allow a discretion to the.thasel e
simers to give the out-door relief, but this resolair'n'a
eluded ont-door relief altogether. Besidesathee:
Lion of the Committee was prospective, whereas this
solution condemned what had been hitherio'deartdos
was convinced if the poor-law had never beenintrseuffer
into Ireland the evils which that country hadwhe
would have been aggravated and increased. „se
gard to the testimony of the Itomaia Catkollset rot
against out-door relief, it amounted to this, °leo tb
' had been a great loss of human life' hut it wag! eats
the loss of life must have been checked t,u, et, the t
of the relief afforded. Ile could not agree Sstth
solution, ohs
Lord ABINGEE said he *as sure that the, of tl
Ireland had been aggravated by the intrccluOtouhy th
poor-law into that Country. fact, he thoorge
poor-laws were injurious to any couotrY
_7_ll;:ees, at
were adopted. It had the effect of lowering :700g
discouraging the employment of capital• hue but
the rohr-law might be alleviated by .palliaPve'ireati(
would not ever work well, because- in itsaOPO-
they had abandoned a groat principle. t
The Earl of GLENGALL said he could 'Owe]
with the Noble Marquis that there was a PrOgOis:tioll ;
provement in 'reload. On good lands the t,haels
the south of Ireland was 27e. an acre. The ctn.- la a
of this was that the good land was lying war. state'
west of Ireland the case was hopeless. Thhshhh et
the law as regarded taxation produced etiligt,h72 ts'rlaes,l
the worst of the thing was, that the te124".;
were leaving the land and emigrating 0 Asaerlessh., st
recent laws had exhausted the stock of the fahrEsh talti
this was the cause of the einigration 00e...11,006s
place. The labourers in Ireland were' satua"Yhouil
£,r their diet. The case of the mercentile 0-for lb
was almost as bah as that of the aerictiltarisatte'rebsat
former depended very much upon the latath nd aue
stores that used to be filled with four. butter, Ideal°
like produce, were now let out for auxiliaryand the Circulation of money had deces4,l,aal woroehal
to tabs'The Noble Earl reed extracts from deettalltstaiagrh,l
that the occupiers of land iu the province %/ash v"
who had to pay poor-rates, had not. milk , hellsajc.7 to drift
their meals, and that the price of stock hal •
f the
than one-half. ' ti ° hl
The Earl of DEVON said, that the arginnley
Noble Lord went the length of saying, th,1,701-; anuses
to alter the law by which the poor in Irtoae for op
certain restrictions, should receive relief. ,ilehnieess tsci
could not consent to do this. He had the baPi.r 00%;
state, that in the Newcastle Union a great iillaPht)e fie
had taken place. Did the_resent distress- ire
O°.
the permission to grant out-doorlief andske ces
re,
tar circumstances ? He denied that it 11- the to
tended that more mischief had arisen toil:es-be stn
j
management of the local authorities than fr°'"
• 10'
of the law.—(Hear.) ; wile be
The Earl of CLARE said the Noble I::,aFh- bee Phs
addressed the House, ens not in hisPA'''..rstes ft.
presented a petition, which sated that Oa pe,c'theete
Newcastle were 15s. in the pound. If Ite. hi`‘ „bleb be
would hardly have made the btueuleat .ssi.uh;:hbat tb
had favoured the House. There was no doul
poor-law had produced greet distres, in tboh:
it
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE adioltn-asa,
parts of Ireland great di2tress t resent elh ;haft)
the question now was, was Ireland Pin a ttite of- ? fie
equal to that which it hat been in two Years 11„Vio fror
admitted that the local taxation was very he.3,"•hrions sat
land, but would it be wise to adopt thieo resole tech
the trifling advantage that would be gained
course of proceeding? Ile warned tehas ncitih'll-t ie
the provision for the poor in Ireland, as it Ill.' ilat/11
to a serious consideration of the subject this
P' e°oo3oted
which could not be advantageous to those la°
ery
this discussion in that Iloaie. term ta
Lord STANLEY said that in his opinion. IthattetS
hiember who had spoken in the debate had, al Noble
the principle of out-door relief, the Speech °EI"43 .04
eh
Marquis himself was the most conclusive enact) s
of any he had heard in favour ot these resolati(nl-‘OBl
why did they refuse to adopt those reso)utioDs?
asked if it was consistent with humanity that'„' shoals,,
sanctioned the principle of out-door relief, thai, t
desist from extending it to those who requiretleae'esti°e
Noble Friend did not propose to act on the s'ioPss, .1".
implied by that question, but simply on the P
Lion which the Committee last year reettahlti al
tb,
upon which five Cabinet Ministers , s;
no system of out-door relief could wenh hto r?(
one of permanent continuance. lie did unt,,,w:p oriti
anything against the control vested in susahe°t Der
Commissioners; but he had heard stateraeoesta shish cat'
which, he thought would d oddly ill ror
When they heard of the exceptionsg°tin takers bY re'
lhvy Commissioners to the operations ofhth °°s.dt9o°l/rbei
they could safely leave in their hands lief system, they ought to feel strew'
modifying it. They the discre7oners
wore told that the Coultuissor_re.
were anxious to reduce the expense of the outsttber'
lief system, so as ultimately to do away with it elthejoitel
If that was the feeling of the Poor-law Coariays 5
could there be a greater affirmation of the prlu,art
it was desirable and absolutely necessary tot .:, c 00,:
sound system of out-door-relief as soon as vis'e sain'
doubts a
_,OO 0
tent with humanity, than the adoption of the fibs
tions by their Lordships' House? lie was glat'hoet
that her Majesty's Ministers did not mean to 701 Pt.
*
proposition with a decided negative—he wrists Bu
they had only met it by the previoush qucasitilo7oftts
thinking no harm could arise b
principle agreed to in Committeye, tanedailithrimnk.iehgottbsahill
advantage, would he gained by a re-affirmatiote hoe'
his Noble Friend divided
Earl GREY said he confuepssoend
divide with him.—(llear.) eh OW
thhoe
iqloudeshtiooitor,dPvr_ol,o,
opsrise.the speech of the Noble Earl who had ,NobleastsP Pti
claimed
dlly that portion of it in which the ,rch.del,
the speech of the Noble Marquis,
always beinghaesardi'tsaiiidi
of the Council .1
the nos
He had
out-door relief Was dangerous
that in England, as well a •the sYs 131
favourainudthheeoefxdttirhdeeinsneeo,rteasciloehtaidtioloo!
s in Ireland, oag
to be administered with great caution. But,
which induced
he contended that there was notiingsitian.
h induced him to give his support to the Pr°P„.eath t/t
before their Lordships. He tot II denied the "1.14
those resolutions. They charted that the P°e-s;hi;
ssere the real cause of all the calansitiei h co/
afflicted that country. That was au aasertlic
teary at once to fact and common sense. es hlia
ti, on the other hand, that the poor• 101: a Or
tended much to miti ddente /aolAs
gate them ; an he ,he
phatically the sweeping censure which te-h toted
Lord had passed upon them. If they, vrer-seasiitie
placed in the same situation of affairs which P'hboa'7,
in Ireland at the time that law was passed, beihee tfh
again give his support in favour of a Pr°,l)°,sopiiii°(4•
'
enact the same nier.sure. Li vindication of Or of leg of
hehneintained it to be a wise and just principtchhhee
lation; for it in fact declared that a severe visit_ ace:
Providence should not be confined to the an'tviciee
which its weight most heavily fell, bat should behofore;
equally between all classes It was untrue, t hestiis,
that the poor-law had been the cause of the. n belt*
sshich now prevailed in Ireland; and the re3611/etle°llo,llelit:
Irelandrup tcy ,
also untrue in stating that it bad been the csosha toots
andwas
unable
belnet atiolirbgeaar,burden upon =sell, opeof
it. a
sting
resolution, moreover,
ff, so great a modiication of the proleilit chasio
poor-law, that of refusing out-door relief, essee.Pae, .heh
whsre no other species cf relief could bee livs-e,
he
ss
trotll o il ',Lib'
cepa r!,toaieoriscalotbee,
113;01 Site poor-law authorities twe, governed by
Parliament had made, and if that law regal o hot r
Lion, which he maintained it did not, theYewe tote's 1-iftal
bound by resolutions, which amounted battle",,or
liamentary censure on an Act, the utility 3° ihte. ;ito
of which their Lordships could not but ePPrccht glys
those reasons he hoped the House eh°
assent to these resolutions.—(llear, bear-) , vale, has
Lord LUCAN observed, that if the Isleuh,et the J,„,ribo
had just sat down was still prepared to suPetioter
poor-law, he was nearly the only Cthe
a
was disposed to do so. t been been
Lord ' BEAUMONT raid that had it Rased hays eO,
speech of the Noble Earl below him he sh9htis quest Would is
contentd to give a silent vote for the Presto in o,..tirtz-
o hs
anf though he still intended to give his ;rolain t'%
idthat alternative, he now wished tO eltese or
by
d on grounds totally different frees thh rhaPs
not withe
otethe Noble Earl; that the Irish poor-law' d ht
itself alone, but at any rate when associllte he th°egr-
causes, had produced ruin and buukruPteT with as had
wasil notorious, and he heard the Noble. VII. that
vinb
is
.ment deny not only that fact, but this ata°l.l,oo3 bah t°
driven capital out of the country. WhYt „„ onkfb"„ -
the management of c lonial affairs, no ,IP"-T,T-„ble ?"-ft
know it better than he.o The s hof tne -"" titstoo-
peec he we
quis who preceded him was the enunciation wile alb
of
sound wisdom and the most obvious truth. :be evil% id
Marquis exhibited iu the strongest langotgee go°d swat
the system of out-door relief; and if no
result from this debate, he trusted that it Ivo° had Pr'•
serve to direct attention to the which et it
abuses thoog-
Tailed in the administration of the law. -ees, res(hth
would, however, be injudicious to adopt.lt:, sees, Weir,,,
tiona, as it might excite au expsctation
.th its-vicehl
about immediately to make a change whicil
snore,h e advisablea ofDtro
smAa eTart
eapTliaetde.r pkrei osaa.-oidt,ost:t_htieorjrlo:
concurrent opinion against the I draw the ,
lief, with but one exception, he goinueldiPtsh'it3
solutions.
The resolutions were accordingly withdrawn'
their Lordships adjourned at tea o'clock'
i

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 2j
1• Nif'D
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.—ADJOU-4'
DEBATF. , ~rth
Mr. A. STAFFORD (iu continuation from 0012-4 t
Edition) said—The lion. Member for Altincue- ea
(Mr. Gibson) said he could not understO
rider t°
how they could 11161C0 out a casa of OPP oe
the Marie, and t,bserved that 11° I'd ' -0
dout.t about their character, but lici coupled this wit,l,!:,,j
repression that
du,:_, the there v.,;,re two tissas in store nor rir-o
,r,inialirgit, prvsent session. viz., the garoc-:3,16,3131ater
Compensation Bili With regard to the „sea
Bill ho would remind Hon. Member; that i' P"' a
through the House la-it .sesdou With scarcely
00,
division, and when it had been re-introduced tili4,'l3