The Sun.
London, England, 1844-01-23 00:00:00

should be told precisely what was the position in which he stood. !
Mr. CLA RKSON said that it was entirely in the discretion of II
the prosecutors to determine, at some future period, whether or
nut they would admit Griffin as a witness; he was now unde
charge.
Mr. Wu:mists—That is holding out to him the inducemen
to give evidence.
The LORD Maron.—Thomas Griffin, you are aware of the
charge that is made against you, and I ask you if you hay
anything to say ?
Mr. CHAMBERS, evidently labouring under great excitement,
asked if the case against Barber was finished. Thecouralse.
now attempted to be pursued was irregular, unjust,n the name
and g
culated to pervert the administration of justice. In
of regularity and decency he pretested It was inconsistent
of this illegal course.
adGoprtifaionn
was placed in the same position in which Fletcher had been—a
as should
lure had been held out to him to give such evidence
did
elfthatevtdenneee
notery
prosecutionthen
he
would and
be indicted.
nonnced the attempt to seduce him into giving evidence by
nerve the
it their purposespurposes, of
the
intimidation. It was impossible for a barrister to do his duty,
if this course were pursued. It was more like the course
pursued in foreign countries, where evidence was procured by
1 means of the rack and the torture. Nothing could be more
dangerous than the conduct now attempted to be pursued.
Mr. Bern.earTasse objected to the course pursued, and called
upon the prosecution to decide whether they would call plaintiff
as a witness or not.
Mr. CLARKSON rose and said that it was time he should be
heard after the three speeches of his Learned Friend.
Mr. CIIA3IBERS—And if you are heard, I will have another
speech.
Mr. Wu:erns—And so will I.
Mr. BALLA NTYNE—And so will I.—(A laugh.)
Mr. CLARKSON—Then I must leave the matter in his Lord-
ship's hands, stating that I will not now decide whether ulti-
mately I shall call him as a witness or not, but at present he is
under charge.
Mr. Cuamsees insisted or, knowing precisely what the
charge against Griffin was. At the time Mr. Clarkson mentioned
the circumstances connecting Griffin with the case, it was true
that Griffin was out of the room, therefore at that time he
could not have been under charge. Now, he wished to know
when he had been charged, what he was charged with, and
whether he was charged in common with the others?
Mr. CLARKSON—I charge him, in common with the other
prisoners, with being concerned in this felony, and I demand
h s remand with the other prisoners.
The Clerk then read the charge, as made upon the notes of
the Court.
Mr. CHAMBERS desired that it might be entered upon the
notes the time when the charge was made. Who are charged?
Mr. CLARKSON—The two men at the bar, the woman below
the bar, and the prisoner at the right hand side of the bar.
Mr. CHAMBERS—When was he charged? It is clear he
i was not charged at the commencement of the proceedings, for
he was not here.
1 Mr. CLARKSOW—He heard the evidence of Mr. Pott, and
that is the only evidence which concerned him.
The Loan MAYOR suggested that, as he had not perhaps
heard the other evidence, it would be as well to go through the
evidence again.
A long, warm discussion ensued between Mr. Chambers, Mr.
Bailanfyne, Mr. Wilkins, Mr. Clarkson, the Lord Mayor, and
Mr. Alderman Humphery, three or four of these gentlemen
frequently speaking at the same time, and the counsel con--
1 sternly interrupting each other.
The Loan MAYOR (addressing the prisoner)—You were
here when the evidence affecting you was given. You heard
that evidence ? The prisoner, Griffin—l ant not aware of it,
my Lord ; I did not attend.
Mr. \VILKINS—He did not hear the whole of the evidence
in the case, and therefore he cannot be called upon the charge.
Mr. Alderman liumearettv— He heard the evidence of Mr.
Putt, and that of Forrester, upon the charge.
Mr. CHAMBERS— You should protect a man who has not
any legal advisers, instead of endeavouring to catch him in a
trap.
Mr. BaLLANTralt—ln this case it is attempted to obtain by
caj lery, what in the other case was attempted to obtain by
threats.- My [.earned Friends intend to use hint as a wit-
ness ; after what has pinsed, they dare not prosecute hint, and
therefore let them examine him at once.
Mr. CHAMBERS—It it were a private prosecution a different
course would have been pursued.
Mr. Alderman He strainer —lt would not.
complicated ease.
Mr. CHAMBERS then demanded that the charge against the
four prisoners should be read.
The Clerk said that he had only a record of three prisoners.
The fourth prisoner had been apprehended upon a warrant.
Mr. Chambers applied to have a note made upon the record
of the proceedings, that at this stage of the proceedings a per-
son named Griffin had been apprehended upon a warrant, en
which he was charged, and the prosecutor were called upon
to say whether he was charged as a prisoner or admitted as
a witness.
I Mr. CLA RKSON—To which the prosecutors refused to answer,
inasmuch as they had not made up their minds.
Mr. Wieeitas desired that the entry might be made. It
was most important that it should be known that up to three
I o'clock to-day the prosecutors had not made up their minds.
! Alta CLARKSON —I call as the next witness Mr. Frederick
kViiliarn Putt.
Mr. CHAMBERS —Dues he depose to say anything affecting
I Mr. Barber?
Mr. BA r.T.A NTY NE—Or Mr. Fletcher.
Mr. WILKINS—Or Mrs. Dorey.
Mr. CLARKSON—Then, my Lord, if my Learned Friends
I object to my proceedings, I request your Lordship to remand
the prisoners.
Mr. CHAMBERS demanded that the several charges against
the prisoners should be complet ed. A copy of the depositions had
been demanded, and it was merely playing with the Act of
Parliament to refuse a copy of the depositions, because the
prosecutors did not choose to complete the charges. He put it
to the Lord Mayor, whether, even as a matter of discretion
it was not his duty to furnish the prisoners with copies of the
depositions? The prosecutor' had boasted of their can-
dour, but if they had kept their word of promise to the
ear they had broken it to the sense. He demanded that copies
of the depositions should be furnished to the prisoners, that
the charges made at an early stage of the proceedings should
be completed. What the prisoners wanted was, that no more
favour should be shown to the Government prosecutor than
would be shown to a private prosecutor. He demanded, there-
' fore, that the evidence should be completed or a valid excuse
made upon oath, for the apparent negligence of the prosecutors ;
and, secondly, that copies of the depositions should be granted
to the prisoners.
Mr. HUMPHREY, the solicitor to Fletcher, made some corn-
I mastication to the Cord Mayor.
The LORD MAYOR—The depositions have not yet been
taken. You demanded copies of the depositions. The exami-
nations alone have been taken.
Mr. BA LLA NTYNE reminded the Lord Mayor that those
very examinations were depositions in point of law, and that
it was the duty of the Magistrates to have the depositions, as
they were called, made out at the close of every examination.
The Leal-tied Couanel then proceeded to aiiimadvert very
severely on the conduct which had been pursued in relation to
Griffin, who had been virtually told by the prosecution that
unless be chose to say something that should he agreeable to
the prosecution, he ahoulai be committed. He entreated the
Lord Mayor to bring the matter at once to a conclusion.
Mr. CIA Rl:so:4 As far as regards the three first charges
he was willing that they should at once be committed on them,
so as to enable the prisoners to have copies of the depositions.
With regard to the last charge he asked for a remand, but he
begged that if at the trial additional evidence should he ad-
: (lured in rilaticn to this charge, lie hoped that he should
' not be taunted A ith pr,,ducing evidence which had not been
produced before the magistrates.
Mr. CH A MBEns characterised the offer made as pretended
candour, but real oppression. Ile demanded that Mr. Barber
should be made acquainted with his real position. He should
riot have fresh evidence started upon him at, his trial. What
he desired was, that, lrorn time to time, copies of the deposi-
tion should he furnished to him.
The Loire MA VOR.—No opposltion has ever been made on
the part of the prosecutors to your having copies of the deposi-
tions.
31r. IVILKIss again complained of the conduct pursued by
the prosecution in relation to Griffin. The counsel for the
prosecution had held out an implied promise to hint, which
was at once an appeal to his hopes and his fears. He pro-
tested against this delay, as calculated to bring f :nit a host of
such witnesses, and to break the spirits and hearts of the
accused.
he Lotus MAYOR—I will state at once that lam prepared
to commit the three pi isoners on the three first charges, and to
remand them oil the last. I remand them until Friday on all
the cases ; and when brought up they will have the evi-
dence, in the first three cases read over to them. I re-
mand them until three o'clock on Friday.
The prisoners Barber, Fletcher, and Mrs. Dorey were then
removed.
A person named Peckham, who had beep a clerk to Mr.
Barber, wished to state that he had not been given anything
for the use of his name.
Mr. Alderman Hum PHERY—What is your Christian name?
Mr. Paekham—Robert.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY—Then you are not the man.
The Christian name given was Clarence.
Thomas Griffin was then placed at the bar, and the &Toil-
of Mr. Pott and of Daniel Forester were read over to him, and
he was asked if he had any questions to put to those witnesses,
to which he replied that he had been taken by surprise yester-
day, and had no questions to ask.
Forrester . amended his deposition, by stating that he had
made inquries in Duke-street, Oxford-street, and in addition he
I stated that he had told Griffin that he had sought after
him for making an affidavit in the ease of Eliza Stuart.
IHe state., that he had done so, and would state all that he
knew about it. I then told him that I had a warrant. He
I then made a statement, which Mr. Weare took down.
Mr. Weare--I am a clerk in the office of lilt-. Freshfield. I
was present when Forester apprehended the man Griffin.
Forrester had some difficulty in meeting with him on
1 Saturday. I therefore accompanied him on Sunday
morning and knocked at the door. I asked if a tailor
named Griffin lived there, the person who came
1 said " Yes," and that she was his wife. At this time
1 Forrester came in ; I said I was sure Griffin was in the house,
and I should insist upon seeing him. Forrester asked which
was the room, and she opened the door, and we went in to-
gether. She knew Forrester and said her husband had
, done nothing wrong. She went out and brought
hint down to us. I asked him if he knew a
Mrs. Stuart, and he said yes. I asked hiin if lie 'knew
Mr. Stuart; he said no. He said Mrs. Stuart had lodged in
! ; the same house with him twelve or thirteen years ago in
1 Poland-street. I asked him for how long a period, and he
said, about a twelvemonth. I asked him whether he had any-
thing to do Mrs. Stuarts' affairs, and he said he had signed a
bond to the Stamp-office, and got some letters by him, about
which he was a good deal alarmed. Either Forrester
or myself then said there was a charge against him
for having sworn to some paper. Then he appeared desirous of
saying all that he knew about it, and was proceeding to state
what he knew, when I asked him if I might take his state-
ment in a riting ? He said, " Certainly ;" and Forreater sent
out for some writing paper, and I took it. I -produce the
statement. I took it from his mouth. I read it over to him.
' lie put his name to every sheet of it.—( The statement
was then read. It declared that he had lived in
Poland-street twelve years ago, wills some persons
named Sanders, and Miss Richards, an old lady who he un-
derstood was- the mother of Miss Richards, and Mrs. Sanders.
Sanders was a fishmeager, and afterwards went to BristOl to
take his mother's business as a fishmonger. In IS-It) the old
lady called upon him, and asked him to become, security to
1 the Stamp-office on account of some property left her by a
breeher who had died in Berkshire. He agreed to do it,
1 and she promised to pay him for his time. She said she lived
, in Southampton-terrace, Camberwell, and would send to depo-
nent. She afterwards sent word, and they met in Paul's-
.
. and went to Pott, the proctor. The old lady had a
person with her, -who had advanced her owner. De-
ponent signed tie bond. He met her again after,
and
she was accompanied by her solicitor. He was
called.on to sign a paper which he understood was the same as
! Lefore. He signed his name, and kissed a book. That was at
a different office. He pate sovereign each time fro. m the old lady.
lie afterwards hail letters from the Sta Mp-office respecting the
duty. He made inquiries of Pott, and was directed t
I.h.t,lfr, to R4rher,. and to Irs. Stuart. Ile then sat.
f;curgi.4;y4 11 ieliAt its, who said her mother was dead. She el-
ii;natcls gave hint a letter to Barber, who said he knew all
about it, that he was in treaty with the Stamp-alike, and he
should hear no more about it. •
Ezainitiat:ou continued—l then read over the af4dtkvit to
hiln, and he said that lze :huald -never ha:e signed his 414414

This is a very