The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, JULY 17. 1844.

Mr. El A WES moved an amendment, that the district
surveyor should be subject to costs us well as the build-r.
The Earl of LINCOLN made a few observatloni that
were inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. HA WES withdrew his amendment, and the clausi
•Nr:.• 4..Tr•e41 ( •
(in 15 bein iuA3osed,
. Mr HA WES obj' c:,,tl to the amount of the po,,Alty.
5001. a-d,ty was monstrous, and 114 hoped the Noble Lurd
would reconsider it.

The Earl of LINCOLN would consider the subject.
iie was ari-aid, however, that :It would be necessary to
maintain the high penalty. He would, however, dever-
-I.d a thy matter upon the report.
I'm ih quest;on that the clause stand part of the Bill,
Nle. HA ES objected to the clause extending to all
si.e• ie.
Tu.- Earl of LINCOLN suggested that the objection
ul C uett,r at another part of the Bill.
T.:e elsuse was then agreed to.
Claa,..es 16 and 17 were ag-eed to without discussion.
',law,' 18 was agreed to, after a short discussion.
On clvuse 19 being proposed,
HA WES moved that it be expunged.
The Earl of Ll;\ COLN supported the clause.
A i.er a short conversation the clau,e was agreed to.
Clauses 20 t 33 inclusive were, after a few verbal
amentimen s, agreed to.
Clau:es up to. 51 were then adopted without discussion,
~xeept on verbal points.
he CHAIRMAN then reported progress and obtained
leave to sit again.
The House then adjourned till half-past five o'clock.

The House resumed at Half-past Five.
Messengers from the Lords brought down certain Bills.
REVENVE COMMISSIONERS' REPORT.

„ -------
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER pre-
sented the Report of the Commissioners of Revenue In-
quiry, which he moved should be printed. As the evidence
contained matter tending to criminate individuals, he
thought it would be better that the evidence should not
be printed, but it would remain upon the table for Hon
Members to refer to.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE thought that neither the House
nor the country would be satisfied without the publica-
tion of the evidence. How could they tell whether or
not the report was well founded unless the evidence were
published ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the evidence would remain upon the table, so thnt Hon.
Members could refer to it at any time.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE asked why it could not be
printed for the use of Members ? In the case of petitions
containing supposed libellous matter it was frequently
the case that they were printed for the use of Members
only. Wy could not this course be adopted in the pre-
sent instance ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
it would be better to adopt tqe course which he had pro-
posed. The evidence wou!d be accessible to every
Member of the House, and they would avoid the risk
which they would run if they were to print it.
After a few words from Mr. V. SMITH and Sir D.
NORREYS,
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he should move as an
amt ndment that the evidence be printed.
The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would in
that case withdraw his motion, and give notice of it for
to- 111,1

Nit.. I'. DUNCOMBE moved that the debate be ad-

-:-;ANCELL4.IR. :.he EXCHEQUER—No,
ry,t! I k,-iti_draw my owtion.„

,&}Lity, was !h,ll. :clthtirawn.
.pres,nten a petition &wit the at-
of Tiverton agair,st the l',A,r-law Bill.
G Ult Pitt..SENTMENT (DUBLIN) BILL.
M,..) H HANIILTON mov-d nominat, the Sel, et
Committee on the Grand Jury PreNentment (Dublin)
Bill :—Lord Eliot, Sir Ralph Howard, Mr. Young, Mr.
Be:4-w. Mr. Gregory, Mr. Archbold, Mr Grog,an, Col.
Henry White, Mr. Hamilton, Capt. Taylor, and five to
be nomatated by the Committee of Seleeti.m.
GARNSIIRK, GLASGOW, AND COATBRIDGE

seven years of ale, were put aside as unable
to march in the caravan. Infants were torn from
their mothers' bre gists, children of six or seven years of
age were wrung from the grasp of their parents. What
then ? To rnainealn them was costly, to leave them
to perish cn the ceast was cruel—they were dis-
patched, and they were the least to be pitied. The
caravan set out, men, women, and children, half naked
and barefoot. The weakly were driven on by the lash,
the strong were restrained from flight by ropes and
chains. Thus they marched hundreds of miles, across
the burning sands of the desert, some tortured by agony
of mind; some fell down dead, others perished by linger-
ing disease ; others were knocked on the head ; and
intelligent travellers had stated that you might track the
slave-caravan through the pathless wilderness by hun-
dreds and thousands of human skeletons. At length they
arrived at the coast, where they were obliged to wait for
the slave-ship. Disease, superinduced by fatigue and
ill-treatment, speedily thinned their numbers. The slave-
ship at length arrived. The captain made his selection,
and chose those whose strength sickness had least im-
paired ; the sickly were rejected. How were they dis-
posed of ? They were either put out of the way or
allowed to perish by famine. An equal number to those
embarked had perished by famine, disease, or violence,
and for every five hundred that went on board the
slave-ship five hundred more had perished before they
reached it. But what were the horrors which pre-
ceded the voyage to what these unfortunate beings
were fated to endure during that fatal transit? It was
well known that a quarter or one-third more were put
on board the slave-ship than would be tolerated on
board any other vessel. The result was, they fell
victims to disorder, and died a horrible death, if they
were not thrown overboard. The captains of these
slave-ships invariably took more negroes than the vessel
could hold, for the purpose of making up any deficiency
in consequence of death. If death ensued from these
cruelties, the dead bodies were thrown overboard; but
that was not all, for sometimes the living were thrown
overboard too, for when the slave-trader thought, from
the look of the slaves, that they could not out-live the
voyage, that fate was sure to await them. This
was by no means an uncommon occurrence, and that
had been even done by Englishmen, when years back
the slave-trade was tolerated in this country.
The consequence of all this was, the raging of
disease on board the vessel ; and instances had
been known where opthalmia had raged to such an
extent, that no person on board could steer the ship,
and the vessel had been lost. The space allotted
to slaves on board ship was so small, that the negro had
not as much room as a man in his coffin. In moderate
weather air was given to the negroes from the hatch-
way; but when storms arose, and the hatchways were
' obliged to be closed, it was horrible to contemplate the
condition of the negroes, hundreds of whom died from
suffocation. From all these various causes it was
reckoned that one-third of the negroes embarked on the
coast of Africa perished before they arrived on the coast
of America. The ravages thus committed in the popu-
lation of Africa could not be less than from 400,000 to
500,000 every year. Let any man calculate from that
the amount of devastation which must have followed
during the last fifty years on the population of Africa.
He would venture to say, that if all the other
crimes which the whole human race had com-
milted, from the creation of the world till the
present day, were brought into an aggregate,
they would not equal—certain was he they could
not exceed—the amount of the guilt of the African
-lave trade.—(Hear, hear.) Was it not, therefore, the
duty of every'Government, and of every nation on whom
Providence had bestowed the means of putting an end
to this monstrous traffic, to employ those means to the
utmost extent ?—(Hear, hear)—and, if ever there was a
a Government or a nation upon which that duty was
mere peculiarly pressing, that Government was the
Government of England, and ours was that nation.—
(Cheers.) He admitted that much had been done. The
British Government and the British nation could look
hack with satisfaction to the efforts which the country
had made in this cause. Partial success had certainly
been obtained. The late Government had done their
duty in this respect.—(Hear, hear.) When they came
into office, in 1830, they inherited the fruits of the
labours of those who had gone before them. The slave
trade under the British flag had been abolished,
and was utterly extinct. Under the French flag
it had been prohibited, and existed only to a partial
extent, although great use was made of that flag to
cover the slave trade. With regard to Spain and Portu-
gal, and the Brazils, we had treaties with Spain and
Portugal—the treaties were insufficient. Those coun-
tries had passed a law prohibiting their subjects from
engaging in the slave-trade; but that law was a dead
letter. We had likewise treaties with the Netherlands,
and Sweden, and Denmark. There was no great slave
trade curried on under the flag of Holland, and none at
all under the flags of Sweden and Denmark. When
they came into office important events had just occurred
in France. The Sovereign of that country had suc-
ceeded to the Crown from the free choice of a free peo-
ple. Power was in the hands of men deeply imbued
with the spirit and the principles of liberty. That being
the case, it appeared to them that the Government of
France might be induced to enter into engagements with
the Government of England on that subject—their
views had been met. The French Government
had joyfully and readily accepted their pro-
posals for a treaty, by which the right of search
should be reciprocally granted by each nation in their
certain latitudes for the purpose of putting an end to the
slave-trade. That treaty, as far as the slave-trade was
concerned, had been undoubtedly successful. It was not
correct, as had been asserted, that in that instance the
sacrifice had been all on one side. There was a
national feeling in France that France had been called
upon to make concession to England which England had
not made to France. He knew of no quality more
honourable 'hen that national feeling which so pre-
eminently distinguished the French nation.—(Cheers.)
But as great a sacrifice had been made on the part of
Great Britain, when she permitted her commercial navy
to be visited and searched by the ships of war of France;
as had been made by France in permitting her ships to
be visited and searched by the ships of war of England
—(Hear, hear)—and, except to accomplish such a
beneficent purpose as the abolition of the slave-trade, it
was a sacrifice that no British Minister would have dared
to propose ; but they had laid aside all feelings
of jealousy for the attainment of this benevolent object,.
In Spain similar events had happened. There the ordi-
nary course of the succession had been changed. There
a contest had arisen between a Queen supporting free
constitutional principles, on the one hand, and a Prince
supp aled by the party of despotism on the other. Eng-
land, sympathising with the struggles of a great people
to obtain freedom, had thrown her weight into the ..sale
of the Queen and Constitutional Government, and, from
the support thus given to that cause, it had triumphed.
They telt that the Spanish Government of that day
owed them a debt of gratitude, and they had called on
them to pay it, not by giving to them any sordid advan-
tages, political or commercial. No; but they had said
" Give u.s a better treaty for the suppression of the slave.
trade. We call upon you, who have so recently engaged
in a glorious struggle to obtain constitutional freedom
for yourselves, to co- opeeate with us in rescuing the na-
tives of Africa ft om a thraldom worse than that under
which you yourselves have been suffering. His Noble
Friend Lord Clarendon, then Mr. Villiers, who was at
that time our Ambassador in Spain, had exerted that
zeal and knowledge for which lie was so remarkable,
and a treaty had been signed, in 1835, which gave
us full powers to enforce on Spanish subjects obedi-
ence to those laws which had been enacted in
relation to this matter as long ago as 1817. That treaty
had produced a great effect in discouraging the slave-
trade to Cuba. In Cuba, in 1835, the number of slaves
imported averaged 40,000 a year, and in 1838 that num-
ber had been reduced to 28,000. Events similar to
those which had taken place in Spain had likewise taken
place in Portugal. There the dispute was a Queen and
Constitutional maxims on the one side, and a usurping
Church and despotism on the other. The course which
we had adopted in Spain we had adopted in Portugal.
We had exerted our influence on the side of liberty, and
through our assistance the cause of liberty had tri-
umphed. We had made to the Portuguese Government
the same appeal that we had made to the Spanish Go-
vernment, but not with the same success. The slave-
traders were stronger in Lisbon than they were in
Madrid—though he would say, that if the appeal had
been made to the Government of Cuba, instead of to the
Government of Madrid, he believed we should
have had as little success as we had met with
at Lisbon. The Government had then come
down to Parliament and stated the engagements
which Portugal had entered into, and the manner with
which she treated those engagements. The Parliament
was of opinion that the cause was a good one, and gave
them by law those powers which the Portuguese Go-
vernment had refused to give them by treaty. That was
a great step gained, as it gave them the power of check-
ing the slave-trade, carried on under the Portuguese
flag, in a manner which, before that, they had been unable
to do. The naval officers on the coast of Africa, for the
purpose of destroying the slave-trade with the native
chiefs, had landed, and taken possession of the slave ba-
I
racoons. 'They had given up the property found there
to the chiefs, and had taken the slaves to Sierra Leone
and liberated them. The Government had authorised
them to do this. That step had struck the greatest dis-
may into the slave traders of Cuba. He had reason to
know that, in consequence, they had been about to with-
draw their capital from the slave-trade, as they could no
longer carry on the traffic with any hopes of success.
The result of those operations, to judge from the official
returns, had been to produce a great diminution in the
number of slaves landed on the islands and coasts of
America. The number of slaves landed in 1838 was—in
Brazil 94,000, and in Cuba 28.000, making a total of
122,000, while, in 1840, two years afterwards, the number
imported into Brazil was 14,000, and into Cuba 14,100,
making a total of 28,700, instead of 122,000, which it
was in 1838, showing a diminution of 83,00 J in the
number of slaves imported, as compared with that year-
This was not a sudden and casual diminution. It had
been stated by Mr. Vandeler that from the years 1817
to 1835 the number of slaves imported into the island of
Cuba had been from 39,000 to 40,000 every year ; in
1838, 98,000; in 1839, 25,000 ; in 1840, 14,000 ; in
1841 it was believed to have been only 11,000; and in
184.2 those impeded was stated to have been diminished
to 3,000. The number imported into Brazil in 1838 was
; in 1539, 56,000 ; in 182, 14,Q00. As fur as
the information which Parliament had'received would
enable them to judge, a great diminution had taken
place in the number of slaves tranq?ortsd from Afriett
to America. Treaties had been concluded with ahncist
every American state, except the northern one—when
fie treaties with the other powers of Europe were signed
iilvihteeded to go furt4r. The treaty with France con-
tained' an ariic!f.'' by Y!Thiely those powers hati engaged to
request.' of such of the ether powers to accede to a treaty
FR- the stßpre.so9 or the slave-tracle as' were parties
file 'treaties of 44-la-Chapplie. These Powers ;
said they would adhere to the spirit of their previous
declarations—they engaged to sign the treaty which
had been signed between England and France, but

f wished, as a matter of diplomatic form, to have a new
treaty drawn up. To this England and France formally
assented. The English Government wished to afford
the French Government an oppOrtunity of remedying
an imperfection in the French treaty, for in that treaty
there was only a zone of sixty miles round Cuba, Porto
Rico. Brazil, Madagascar, and along the western coast of
Africa. in a latitude of 15 deg. N., to a lat.'of 15 dez. S.
But these limits excluded a considerable. portion
of the southern coast, in both of which the slave-trade
was carried on vigorously. It was proposed to the
French Government to include both these parts; they
acceded to it, and the new treaty would include the
whole African coast as well as the West Indian seas.
The new treaty was drawn up, and presented to the
Austrian, Russian, and Prussian Governments, and
when the late Government were going out of office,
and after a good deal of negotiation, the treaty was
within a few days of being signed. Russia started a few
trifling points, but these the English Government were
willing to accede to. The treaty would have been of
great advantage, and it was the ultimate
object of the British Government, when all the
Great Powers of Europe had signed the treaty, to
present it the Northern States of America, and he
thought he had a right to assume that the application
could not have been altogether unsuccessful.--(Hear,
hear.) When Austria, Prussia, and Russia, as well
as England and France, submitted to the right of search,
there were strong grounds for believing that America
would not refuse ; at all events something might have
been done by the United States Government to assist
and co-operate. He considered that, as far his know-
ledge extended, things had not gone forwards but
backwards, and that great strides had been made
by their Government, not towards the suppression, but
towards the revival of the slave-trade. The Noble Lord
then went on to say that he expected the treaty between
England and the Five Powers would have been signed
immediately after the late Government left office, but
such was not the case ; it had not been signed for four
months after, and when signed, the French Government,
because of an address from the French Chambers, re-
fused to ratify—a thing unprecedented in the annals of
diplomatic intercourse, and which the British Govern-
ment should not have passed over without recording
their solemn protest against it. Nothing could justify a
Government receding from the terms agreed upon
and signed by its Plenipotentiary, except that
it was proved that a Plenipotentiary acted against or
beyond his instructions. The next blow the cause of
freedom received, was that letter of the Lords of the
Admiralty, in May, 1842, in which blockade on the
coast of Africa was forbidden, although the Right Hon.
Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) afterwards declared that
the blockade of the coast of Africa was the mode de-
vised
by the Government as the most effectual for the
suppression of the slave-trade.—(Hear, hear.) The
British Government, in that unfortunate Ash •
burton negotiation, not only to a great ex-
tent surrendered that portion of territory which
rightfully belonged to this country, but gave up all claim
on the American Government for the fulfilment of that
article of the treaty of Ghent which they would have been
otherwise bound to fulfil. There was, therefore, no
ground for calling on the American Government to do
anything further towards the suppression of the slave-
trade. He had been informed that in 1843 a greater
number of slaves had been imported into the West
Indies and Brazil than for many preceding
years. He believed in the sincerity of the Govern-
ment to put down slavery, but differed very widely
from them as to the efficacy of the measure. He feared
that the blockading of the entire coast of Africa, as sug-
gested by the Government, was physically impossible ;
nor would, he felt assured, experienced naval officers
concur in the practicability of such a scheme. He be-
lieved that the whole naval force which the American,
French, and English Government could collect on that
coast would be altogether insufficient. Just let the House
consider tit immensity of the distance, from north to
east, along the coast—why it was out of the question.
In addition to the distance, it should be observed
that on many parts of the coast there were clusters of
islands, so that a cruiser might be within a mile of a
slave-ship and not see her. And then when a slaver had
escaped outside the zone, which the anti-slave squadron
watched, she was quite safe until she reached her desti-
nation. But there was a still further difficulty. Ten
degrees south latitude below the equator, and all along
the western coast, there was no mutual right of search
established between France and England. A vessel
bearing the French flag would not, therefore,
be searched in this region, but this would
not signify if the right of search prevailed on the coast
of the Brazils ; but one defect of the treaty of 1841 was,
that the right of search was not guaranteed on that
coast. He would not allude to the question of slave-
grown sugar, which had so recently occupied the atten-
tion of the House. They had been told by the Govern-
ment that there was the most cordial assurances and
feelings of friendship between this and the French Go-
vernments. No man rejoiced more heartily at it than
he did, but certainly he must say, that there had been
as yet no very brilliant or beneficial results
from this union—the fruit was not worthy of the tree.—
(Hear, hear.) He found that it was a combination on
the part of France rather to put down popular institu-
tions, and erect in its stead a military despotism. He
feared the two countries had rather combined to enslave
the free than to free the enslaved. It was said that Brazil
and Portugal had been assenting parties to a recent treaty.
Those two powers had entered into contracts of a most
stringent character with this country not to carry on
the slave-trade, and yet, in spite of those contracts, they
had done so. Only let England and France, if they
were united as it had been said they were—let them go
to Spain, and use the whole weight of their united influ-
ence, and if they did so, he did not hesitate to say that
they would obtain from Spain and Portugal the engage-
ments they had a right to expect, but which had hitherto
been withheld. He thought it was in the power of those
two countries, if they chose to be in earnest, to obtain,
if not an immediate suppression of the slave-trade,
something that would ere long ensure so desirable a re-
sult. The rulers of Spain had done something them-
selves towards putting an end to slavery. i'erdinand
VII. had made an order that all ships carrying on the
slave-trade should be confiscated, and their captains sent
for ten years to the Philippine Islands. He hoped that
the union between France and England, of which they
had heard so much, would be directed to the accomplish-
ment of an object that would redound to the glory of
both. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated on a former
occasion that one of the great inducements for him and
his colleagues to take office was the desire and
hope of obtaining posthumous fame, and he did not ex-
clude from that the approval of conscience, which was
the highest reward. But the Right Hon. Baronet said
that one means by which they hoped to obtain future
fame was by conferring benefits on their countrymen
and on mankind generally.—jfear.) The present
Government were placed in that situation that they
could not do the first. They could not emancipate the
industry of the country, because they were prevented
from doing that by the prejudices of their supporters.—
(Hear, hear.) They could not give content to the six
millions of Catholics in Ireland, because they were pre-
vented from doing that by the obstacles which they had
in former times placed in their own way. With respect
to the improvement of the condition of the country, the
vessel of the State was following in the wake, and not
leading other nations. But there was one field still open
to them, in which they might gather unfading laurels—
they might abolish the slave-trade. If they attempted
to do so they would have the country unanimous with
them, and the powers of so great a country, when
exerted in so noble a cause, would be sure to succeed.
If the present Government could say that they had in
their time put an end to crimes which their predecessors
could not effect—if they could have that to say they
would bequeath to posterity a name that would exist to
the most distant ages.—(llear, hear.) But if it should
be recorded of them that the slave-trade had been put
down in the time of their predecessors, but that it raised
its odious head again in theirs, they would obtain a fame
compared with which the most absolute oblivion
would be preferable. The Noble Lord concluded
an eloquent speech by moving for a return, showing
the total number of African negroes landed
for the purposes of slavery on the islands and
on the continent of America, from the year 1815 to the
year 1843, both inclusive ; distinguishing the number
so landed in each of those years, and distinguishing
also the number landed in each year on the territory of
each separate state or power, so far as the same can be
made up from the documents in the possession of her
Majesty s Government.
Sir R. PEEL would have cordially concurred in the
motion of the Noble Lord, had he not been convinced
that it had been brought forward for the purpose of that I
rhetorical display which they had just witnessed. The
Noble Lord, having passed the greater portion of dip
session in inactivity, roused himself at the close.—(Hear,
hear.) He had exerted himself to find out a motion on
which to make a speech, which the most captious Mi-
nister could not raise any objection to. The Noble Lord,
on the 11th of March, gave notice of a motion, the ob-
ject of which was very important, calling upon the
House of Commons to pass resolutions compelling the
Government to reject any proposals that might be made
by France for the modification of the existing laws.
He believed the Noble Lord met with little sanction on
that motion from his own side of the House ; and the
result was, that he shrunk from the motion, for week
after week he kept postponing it, still declaring
that he should bring it on, and when he made
that declaration, the countenances of those who
sat around him plainly showed their disappro-
bation. But, however, the Noble Lord stated his
determination to persevere, and the House was counted
out on the day when he was to bring the subject for-
ward. Now he would ask whether that was not indicative
of the opinion of the House on the subject? The Noble
Lord seemed to be greatly alarmed by what had taken plane,
and he had good sense enough to abstain from bringing
forward the motion. Now, in considering the question,
he would separate all those parts of his speech with re-
spect to the slave-trade from those which had relation to
the conduct pursued by the Government, because it was
important, that upon the first point in which they all
concurred, that that concurrence should be expressed in
a way that could not be mistaken, not permitting party
differences to detract from the weight of them. In the
whole of the first part of the speech. of the Nellie. Lord,
he most cordially concurred. lit believed that the slave-
trade was the moat iniquitous traffic that was ever
thotight of by the, mind ornian, and that it engendered
nlore misery and crime than any pulalio act of any nation.
He did not think that the Noble Lord.: had in the
sli4htest degree aver-rated the • miseries and
horrora that had arisen from the traffic in
the blood and sinews of men. There were
two countries, and two only, who were now mainly ro-
snonsible for the continuance of this enormous crime.
*hero was, on the part'6ysry'ovqr civilised country,
with the eXcePltion of two, a desire to co-operate in the
suppression of the trade in ruen.--(Rear, hear.) If Spain
agfl Prazil would zealously apply themselves to the sup-
pression Of the slave-trade in those parts of the world
over which they exercised jurisdiction, the slave-trade
would be suppressed. France, Portugal—Denmark, to

her honour, led the way—this country, the United States,
Prussia, Russia, Austria, and every Power, were ready
to co-operate in this great work, while those two Powers
opposed the suppression of the slave-trade, and effectually
stopped the progress of so great a work. Spain and
Brazil were the only countries that lent their sanction to
this barbarous traffic. They were the only countries
that were deriving profit from it. They had the power
to suppress it, but without their good-will it was impos-
sible, whatever sacrifices they might impose upon the
people of this country, effectually to succeed. They
might do much towards its suppression, but they,
could not insure perfect success without the assist-
ance of. Spain and Brazil, because they were con-
stantly counteracted and defeated by the connivance of
local authoritiei. - It would be easy to show that Spain
and Brazil could suppress it. Brazil made the attempt
in 1840 and 1841, and the effect produced there was
most astonishing and immediate. During the period
the Government of Brazil actively interfered to dis-
courage this traffic there was a great diminution of the
number of slaves imported to Brazil. With respect to
Cuba, the last two years proved that it was in the
power of an active Government, notwithstanding all the
, excitements of avarice, to take effectual measures for its
suppression. He thought it greatly to the credit of the
person who lately exercised power in Spain—he meant
General Espartero—that he had appointed an officer to
take the command in Cuba, General Valdez, who re-
fused to participate in the gain of his predecessors, or to
connive at it. He discarded the traffic, and the result
was extraordinary. During the period that General
Valdez was in Cuba, in 1842, the importation of slaves
into Cuba did not exceed 3,100, but when he assumed
the government it was upwards of 14,000. During the
first years of his government it was 8,000, and in the
last year it was only 3,000. If Brazil had honestly
exerted itself in 1840 and 1841 the slave-trade would
have been effectually suppressed. He hoped, after
the statements that had been made by the
Noble Lord, confirmed as they had been by
his successors in office, that the Government of Spain
would feel that they had a grievous responsibility cast
upon them—that the eyes of the whole of Europe were
turned towards them ; and that such being the case, he
trusted they would re-consider the course they had been
pursuing, and turn their minds to humanity and justice.
But if these higher motives would not prevail, then he
must warn the Government of Spain to look to the con-
dition of Cuba, a country where their tenour of power
was of so precarious a description. The black population
of that country were determined to rid themselves of the
sufferings and torture they were enduring. There
seemed to be a settled and deep determination to eman-
cipate themselves from the state of slavery in which they
at present existed. Those who took part in this had
been recently brought from the coast of Africa, men
who were unenlightened, and who could not have com-
bined, but who had come there smarting under a sense of
wrong. What he had stated was the truth, confirmed
from many sources well entitled to credit ; and if any-
thing did occur, no suppression of it could be hoped for,
except by the most determined application of military
force. He trusted, however, he had said enough to show
that the public men of this country were not disunited
on that great question which the Noble Lord opposite
had expressed himself so strongly about, and that on both
sides of that House they were but the representatives
and organs of public opinion—that public opinion re-
acting on almost every other part of the civilised
world.—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir Robert Peel) now
proceeded to that part of the Noble Lord's ad-
dress wherein he drew an invidious contrast between
the course taken by her Majesty's late and her Majesty's
present Government—their principles and their opi-
nions on this question of the slave-trade; and whatever
the Noble Lord had said should not provoke him
(Sir Robert Peel) to conceal that which was due to
him for the assiduous attention which he had ever paid
to this subject.—(Hear, hear.) He had done every-
thing that could be done to invite other nations to co-
operate with this country for the suppression of the
slave trade ; but having admitted thus far, he came pre-
pared to defend the present Government from the impu-
tations sought to be cast upon it by the Noble Lord.
The first ground of imputation chosen by him was the
conduct of the Government to the treaty which had
been signed with France, in the year 1841. In the year
1838 France had conferred with this country as to the
policy of inviting other countries to adopt, along with
them, measures for preventing as much as possible the
continuance of the odious slave-trade. France had then,
no doubt with the greatest sincerity, united with this
country to get other countries to join them in that ex-
cellent effort. She was willing at that time to concede
the right of search—no objection had been made—none
at least, of a very strenuous nature—for no sacrifice
was asked from her which we were not prepared
and willing to make to a much greater extent, and most
certainly anything that might be supposed to have the effect
of touching her honour, must also have equally touched
the honour of England. As to the question of the right
of search, where one visit would have had to have been
made to the French naval force, several would of course
have to be made to ours—our own honour, therefore, was
at stake to a much greater extent than the honour of the
French flag ; but France gave to our proposals at that
time, not a reluctant, but a cordial and hearty assent.
The treaty was signed by the representative of France,
who was armed with full power for that purpose. There
was no allegation whatever that that representative had
at all exceded the powers entrusted to him. We had
every right to expect that a treaty so signed by a repre-
sentative having full powers would have been justified,
and so far as the King of the French and the Govern-
ment of France were concerned, he (Sir R. Peel) be-
lieved that every honest effort had been made in order
to the fulfilment of the expectations which they had ii
right to form, and the proper anticipations of that
treaty.—(Hear, hear.) But certainly feelings of na-
tional pride did show themselves to a most extraordinary,
perhaps, to an almost alarming extent, and to this circum-
stance alone did he (Sir R. Peel) attribute the non-
ratification of that treaty. For the rousing of those
feelings he held the Noble Lord himself (Lord Palmers-
ton) responsible.—(Loud Ministerial cheers.) Between
the engagements entered into and the ratification of the
treaty embodying them, an important event occurred
which terminated the reign of cordial and friendly feel-
ings which had hitherto prevailed between France and
this country. He (Sir IL Peel) would not enter into the
policy of the treaty of July the 15th—nor yet of the
policy of the Syrian campaign ; but this he would say,
that the engagements entered into by England with the
three other Powers, to the exclusion of France—whether
justifiable or not—were the cause of those feelings which
arose in France, and which induced insuperable objec-
tions to her ratification of the treaty. It was not the
fault of the Government of France that the treaty had
not been ratified—they had a bona fide intention in re-
ference to it—but it was the representation of nationa
anger in the popular assembly of that country, whichl
debarred them from ratifying the engagements
which their Minister had entered into.—(Hear, hear.)
Could the Noble Lord have forgotten the de-
bates that took place on this subject in the
Chamber of Deputies? Did the Noble Lord forget the
part taken by so many of the public men of that coun-
try? Did he forget the speech made by M, Thiers, the
very Minister under whose auspices the negotiation of
the treaty was carried on? He distinctly stated in the
Chamber that they stood very differently then than
they did when the original arrangements for the. treaty
were made—that the feeling iu 1838 and 1839 was very
different towards England than after the treaty of July,
1841, and the slight thrown on France by it.—(Hear,
hear.) That Hon. Deputy also stated that they had a
right to attempt at a previous date, in conjunction with
England, many things they could not, at a subsequent
period, even think of venturing upon ; that in 1831 and
1833 there might have been motives sufficient to justify
concession that he could never admit under after cit.
cumstances. That language was, in 1842, also the lan-
guage of Berryer, and of many others of the most emi-
nent men in the Chamber. Then he (Sir R. Peel) said
he was justified in charging upon the Noble Lord alone
(Lord Palmerston) the non-ratification of the treaty, and
the subsequent estrangement and ills that had fol-
lowed between France and this country.—(Trea-
sury cheers.) The Noble Lord might pride
himself on his Syrian affair, if he liked ; but he (Sir
R. Peel) should tell him plainly that he was the last
person who ought to taunt the present Government with
difficulties, which, in fact, he (Lord Palmerston) ha-1
himself created.—(Cheers.) Why, for year after year,
the Noble Lord, at the opening of Parliament, had taken,
credit, in the Queen's speech, on account of the main-
tenance of a cordial and intimate friendship and good
understanding between this country and France. It was
for the Noble Lord himself to state—and he never vet
had stated—what was the reason that this good under
standing, of which at one time he was so prone to boast,
no longer existed.—(Loud Ministerial cheers.) But,
whatever was the cause of the non-ratification of the
treaty, there was no occasion at that moment to inquire.
He trusted time, and the proper influence of moderate
men on both sides of the channel, were rapidly wori-Inz
their way to a better state of feeling, and, Gnat bad
passions were rapidly sinking to rest.--iTheers.) The
next point on which the Noble Lord had chosen to
attack the Government ':;as becausethey,did not think it
right to adopt hie (Lord Palmerston s) views, with
respect to the destruction of the baracoons on the coast
of Africa, He (Lord P.) said he had given orders for
the destruction of these baracoons, without paying any
great regard to what the laws of other countries were.
The Noble Lord's'only object was to restore the slaves to
liberty, no matter how, or by what means. Now he (Sir
R. Peel) must say that he thought the far better course
in all these matters—whether in our transactions with
civilised or with savage nations—was toadhere to certain
principles—(Hear, hear)—established by the natural
laws of equity and justice. There was no doubt we were
a powerful country—there was no doubt we could easily
enough land upon the coast of Africa, and do almost as
we liked ; but he asked the House, he asked the coml.
try, did the law of nations justify us in such proceedings?
—(Cheers.) Why, savage nations might make no de-
weed for redress, or, if they made .t, we might take no
heed of it ; but were there b.',.4t civilised Powers who had
interests on the coast of Africa, and who might have to
decide whether we were justified in wrongs we might commit, and whether reparation for them ought not, in
fairness, to be asked for? The ordinary course in all
these matters was the proper one for a Government to
take—it was to take the opinion of that legal au-
thority whose especial office it was to advise the
Government in these cases, and to see that its I
policy was kept untainted by wrong or illegality,
The Queen's Advocate-General had been applied to fur
his advice, and he had replied, " If you have a treaty with
a native Prince on the coast, then you may interfere, het
not having tiucli treaty, you are clearly not at liberty
to, destroy the baracoons, and if a murder is committed
in your attempting to do so, you are clearly responsible
for it." tinder those cireurestancesethe Governinent•ewer
tainly thought it their duty to give notice to the naval i
officers on the coast af-yeioa to refrairtfrorn such acts ;
but they kttcl, at the same time, empthVered them, and
urged them to take every opportunity in their power of
making such treaties with the native Princes.—(Hear,
hear.) He asked the House,, then, if there was any

ground for imputation upon the Government in thus ex-
hibiting this country as anxious to respect, both with
savage and with civilised powers, those rights which s e
• , ever insisted on should be respected in our proper inte-
, rests.—(Ministerial cheers.) He believed the instruc-
tions given to the cruizers were consistent with law, and
such as would command the approval of that House and
i of the country—(Hear, hear)—ane that the whole con-
. duct of the Government was perfectly consistent
with a sincere and honest desire to suppress the
slave-trade on the coast of Africa, and where •
ever else the legitimate influence of England
might be made to extend.—(Cheers.) The next point
on which the Noble Lord attacked them was as to a
measure which he appeared to think amounted to a
blockade of the coast of Africa. The term blockade
could hardly be properly applied to this service—in his
(sir R. Peel's) opinion, that was not a proper form.
What was contemplated was an increase of the naval
three, in order to prevent the departure from the coast
of Africa of vessels laden with slaves. The Noble Lord
greatly diapproved of this plan; but he (Sir R. Peel)
entertained strong hope of its success, from the eircuiri-
,
stance that it had been recommended by distinguished
officers who had served on the coast of Africa, and who
all concurred in expressing their confidence in its effi-
ciency, for the object to be attained. Captain _Matson,
an officer well known for his experience and services—
(" Hear, hear." from Sir C. Napier)—and who was
most competent to give an opinion, highly approved of
the plan. The Noble Lord, by signs, seemed to think
an officer disqualified from giving a sound opinion if he
happened to have served on the coast of Africa. That
eallant officer, and others of equal weight, had ex-
plained to the Government how the slave-trade WRA
carried on from the variety of sources whence sieves
-vele supplied to the coast, and from the constant and
careful watch which was kept on the !British cruizers,
so as that the moment they moved from one point,
the shipment and transmission of these un-
happy beines might instantly be commenced
from it. They stated that if the English Go.
vernment would sustain a permanent force of greater
amount, and under a direct superintending control--
, taking care that no information should ever get abroad
where those ships should be stationed—they would, in.
two years, do more for the suppression of the slave.
trade, than if they employed five times the amount
under the present system. Captain Deaman, an officer
of great judgment and experience, fully concurred in the
views of Captain Matson, as did also Captain Tucker,
another name eminent in the naval records of the coun-
try. Those officers had all given these opinions; and
that it should be known without any concert with each
other, these suggestions had not been handed over to
civilians alone for consideration and for decisiten, but
they had been submitted to his Gallant Friend near him
(Sir G. Cockburn, we presume), who, after having taken
time, as he always did, for considertion, had come to the
conclusion, not that they would absolutely succeed, but
that they promised a greater chance of success than any
of the plans which they had hitherto acted upon. Again,
then, he asked the House whether the imputations at-
tempted to he cast by the Noble Lord (Palmerston) upon
the Government were not unfounded and unjust ?
(Hear, hear.) He (Sir R. Peel) would not weary the
[louse upon other points attempted to be tortured into
charges against them ; but would now say a word or two
its to the withdrawal, under the new plan of action on the
coast of Africa, of vessels from the coasts of Cuba and
Brazil. No doubt, at times there might be requisition
made of those ships for other points, should events oc-
cur suddenly to require an extra protection to British
interests At the present moment, for instance, there
were differences between Buenos Ayres and Monte
Video, which might call for even a still stronger shield
to British property and lives. But when requisition
should be made of any part of such force, it would only
be a temporary withdrawal of any part of it from the
coast of Cuba. He (Sir R. Peel) did not contemplate
any permanent discontinuance of the force on the coast
of Brazil and Cuba, nor did he think he should here-
after, at all events for some time to come, advise that any
such step should be taken. If there were any feelings of
pride or honour in the Governments of Cuba and Brazil,
they would induce them to act as this kind of police on
their respective coasts. At the present moment England
was absolutely peforming the duty of a police upon these
coasts, a duty which feelings of pride and honour ought
to lead them to discharge themselves, to relieve others
from the necessity of it. The Noble Lord had referred
to the good understanding between this country and
France. He said he was gad to observe it, but still he
spoke of it in terms not much calculated to impose or
strengthen it. He (Sir Robert Peel) had always
been of opinion that this good understanding
could not be preserved by any compromise
that would be dishonourable to this country.—(Hear.)
i But if it could be continued with a due regard to national
honour, he believed it was an understanding essential to
the interests of civilisation—essential to the peace and
welfare of the whole civilised world.—(Cheers.) Ile
believed it was the earnest wish of the great body of the
people of this country to maintain that understanding;
and he could say for the present Government, that
though it might be subjected to occasional taunts on the
subject, he believed that the predominant feeling both
in this House and the country was in favour of the main-
tenance of that good understanding, subject to the con-
ditions he had alluded to. The House must be aware
of the difficulties to which the Governments of France
and England were exposed in preserving that steady and
temperate course. In this country they were taunted
with making concessions to France, and the French
Government were taunted with making Concessions to
England. There seemed to be parties ;.n both countries
who were continually throwing every impediment in the
way of that course, and prevented the continuance of
mutual good feeling. He geese credit to the Government
of France for being actuated by a sincere desire to
abolish the slave-trade. But whether France united
with them in inculcating on Spain and Brazil
the necessity of observing their treaties, or whether it
did not, he could assure the Noble Lord that those
treaties would not be neglected by the Government.
They had brought before the Government of Spain the
conduct of the present Government of Cuba, and they
had placed it in dishonourabie contrast with the conduct
of the late Governor-General Valdez. The Government
would insist on the performance of that treaty by Spain
according to its conditions, for some of which it had
received an equivalent from England. The Government
were determined to adopt such measures as would lead.
to the abolition of the slave-trade. The Noble Lord had.
expressed a wish that England would combine with
France for the purpose of rescuing the oppressed from.
their fetters, rather than for the purpose of enslaving the
free. Enslaving the free ! Why, where did the Noble
Lord find any ground for the imputation ? Where did
he find the ground for asserting that there was any com-
bination between France and this country for that pur-
pose ? Did the Noble Lord think that it was for the.
interests of France and England—to the countries
governed by free institutions—that any people should be
subjected to a despotic form of government. He (Sir
R. Peel) insisted that Spain was governed by free
institutions. He believed that such institutions, com-
bined with a limited monarchy, would elevate Spaia
to her place among the nations of the world; but he
apprehended that we ought not to enforce such a. forms
of government on Spain. Ought England to have
interfered to maintain the Government of Espar.
tero ? He believed that Espartero was an ho-
nourable man, desirous of doing his duty towards Stafes
and determined to do it without assuming an uneonsti.
tutional power. He believed that that forbearance and
honesty, in a state.of society perhaps unsuited to them,
had led to his fall. But whatever might be his grateful
acknowledgment to Espartero for his public conduct—.
whatever respect he might have for his personal quell.-
ties, for the forbearance he had shown, and his determi-
nation to act according to the Constitution of the tome.
try—yet, if the Noble Lord thought they ought to have
actually interfered for the purpose of maintaining his oe•
any other form of. government in Spain, he must say he
totally differed from the Noble Lord. He believed that
no nation would more resent such au interference than
the people of Spain. The people of Spain were the best
judges of their domestic Constitution. It was the ditty
of this country to assist him with advice when it wail
called for, and by friendly relations as long as the inter.
course existed, hut he totally differed from the Noble,Lordl
in supposing that they were actively to interfere in the
nternal affairs of that country, He did not recollect
any other point of the Noble Lord's speech to which he
would refer, with the exception of that peroration whielt
he believed was the main object of the speech itself-.
(Hear, hear.) He believed that the Noble Loraadmired it very much, and would hardly have made
such a trumpery motion as the present one hut for the
purpose of' introducing it. The moment he had seen thee
terms 01 the NobleLeieTs motion, he had given diree-
tiara to have O. s information prepared. He would
even add t,(..; it more than the Noble Lord asked. The
Noble Zoe' might take the number of condemnations'
gnat had been made at Sierra Leone during the pas,e
year. He wished to show Foreign Powers, that not-
withstanding their party divisions, they were united its
considering the manner in which the slave-trade might;
be put down. He had answered all the charges in the
Noble Lord's speech, with regard to the treaty osl
1841, to the efforts making on the coast of Africa and
Brazil ; and had shown that the Noble Lord had non
one single ground for the accusation he had made
against the Government. But the Noble Lord wee
justly proud of his peroration, which ought to have been.
spoken in the mouth of March last; but he had, tie
doubt, said he would found his oratorical reputation upon,
it—that it would make a great impression upon the
House and the country, and therefore he was not sur-
prised that the Noble Lord could not forego the temp-
tation. That peroration was founded on something that
he (Sir Robert Peel) had said two years since, to the
effect that those who consented to make private sacri-
fices to undertake public duties did not do so for
the mere pecuniary compensation, but from a hope of
establishing a claim to the gratitude of the public.
'The Noble Lord then said that that desire for fame
could not he that which rested on human opinions only,
but that which had regard to the higher sense of duty.
He (Sir Robert Peel) thought that all fame that de-
pended upon temporary popularity, was exceedingly
evanescent. He believed that the only way of insuring
true fame was, regardless of popularity to do that which
a sense of duty dictated. When he said, therefore, that
public men looked to permanent reputation for the re-
ward of their public labours,' he meant those labours.
which were conducive to the welfare of their country,
and dictated by a sense of duty. But the Noble Lord
said that to them most of the avenues of fame were
stopped up. To increase commerce and to loosen the,
shackles of trade, that the Noble Lord said was impos-
sible to the present Government, on account of the party
connected tetthbie,l3et, at any rate, it had done more Casa
the':Mslsl6 Lord, ►
and ten eimes more than he ever con-
templated till his dying moments, when it 'became ne-
"Cessary to make some desperate efforts to prolong his
political existence. Not till then did the Noble Loot
become a free-trader. Not till 1841, when the Minis-
terial existence was greatly perilled, had they heard.
anything of those magnificent declarations in favour ott'
commercial liberty which the Noble Lord said the pre,