The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-03 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIT.4 8, 1844.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, April 2.
ROYAL CO MMISSION.

Their Lordships assembled this afternoon at a Quarter
before Four o'clock, and the llouze of Commons having
been summoned to their Lordships' bar, the Speaker
shortly afterwards made his appearance at the bar ac-
companied by several Members. The Royal Assent was
then given by Commission, in the usual manner, to the
Mutiny Bill, the Marine Mutiny Bill, the Annual In-
demnity Bill, the Berrill (Huntingdonshire) Inclosure
Bill, and the Mansfield: (lluntingdonshire) Inclosure
Bill. The Commons having withdraw!), their Lordships
adjourned during pleasure.

Their Lordships assembled again at Five o'Clock.
The Earl of ROSEBERY presented two petitions
from Manchester and Birkenhead, against certain pro-
visions in the Dissenters' Chapels Bill.
Lord WIIARNCLIFFE presented a petition from
the Rev. Dr. Hook, Vicar of Leeds, praying the House
to pass a Bill to divide the parish and vicarage of Leeds
into separate parishes and vicarages, for ecclesiastical
purposes only.
Lord LORTON presented petitions from Suffolk
against the grant to the College of Maynooth.
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from a place
in Ireland complaining of the late decision of their
Lordships House with respect to Presbyterian mar-
riages. • -
RESTRICTIONS. ON TRADE.

Lord MONTEAGL-E brought in a Bill to repeal cer-
tain laws which restricted the purchase and sale of goods.
In Ireland none of these Acts had been repealed' and
his object was to make the law similar to that in Eng-
land, and also to improve the latter. This was only
pursuing the same course which had been long since re-
commended in the House of Commons. He wished that
the Bill should be immediately printed, and that it
should be read a second time as early after Easter as
possible. The Noble Lord concluded by moving that it
be now read a first time.
The Bill was then read a first time.
The Marquis of BUTE presented petitions from Ayr,
Perth, and several other places in Scotland, praying for
the abolition of the tests which were required to be taken
by Dissenters on entering the several Scotch Universities.
-APPEALS AND WRITS OF. ERROR.
Lord CAMPBELL rose to lay on the table of the
House a Bill for removing objections which could now be
taken to the administration of justice in this country
with respect to appeals and writs of error. The Bill
provided that upon the defendant giving security in
such sum as the court might direct that any fine that
might be imposed should be paid, andthat the defendant
should be forthcoming to undergo any sentence which
might be pronounced upon him, that sentence should be
suspended until the court of appeal had decided upon the
merits of the case. The Bill would not come into opera-
tion until the 9th of August.
FEES TO JUSTICES' CLERKS.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to move for a
return from each of the clerks of the peace at the several
sessions in England and Wales, of the amount of the
fees received by him during each of the last three
years ending the 31st of December, 1842. This was
a matter which pressed most heavily upon the poorer
classes of persons, because in the greater number of in-
stances, the fines did not amount to one quarter of
the amount of the costs, and in many other
cases the costs were thirty or even forty times the
amount of the fine. Thus there could be no proportion
between the crime and the expense to which the
unfortunate culprit was subjected. He felt sure this
was a subject in which all their Lordships
must feel a deep interest. It had been mooted in this
House some time ago, and he trusted that the Right
Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment would take this matter into his serious con-
sideration.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he had made in-
quiry into this subject, and he found that those fees did
always go to the magistrate's clerk. It was a matter of
great importance, and one to which her Majesty's Go-
vernment would give every consideration.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE was informed upon good
authority that those fees did not go to the, magistrates'
clerks, but were generally appropriated to defraying
the incidental expenses of the trial, such as paying
witnesses and constables, so that very often only a very
small amount of the fees reached the clerk of the peace.
Lord BEAUMONT said the principal part of the fees
went in payment to the constables, whose expenses were
regulated according to the distance they had to travel.
Lord CAMPBELL said that as the Government in-
tended to take up this subject, he would suggest to them
the propriety of regulating the fees to clerks of the
peace, so that they should not 'depend upon the length
of the proceedings. He knew that great extortion had
been practised in consequence of the fees being regulated
according to the length of the proceedings to which they
related.
After a few words from Lord REDESDALE and the
Earl of CoLcuEsTzit, the Returns were ordered.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.

Messengers from the Commons brought up a Copy of
the First Report of the Select Committee of the House
of Commons, appointed to consider the law affecting
Joint-stock Companies, which, on the motion of
Lord IvIONTEAGLE, was ordered to be printed.
On the motion of the Duke of WELLINGTON,
Their Lordships then adjourned till Tuesday, the 16th
instant.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 2.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at a Quarter before
Four o'Clock.
ROYAL COMMISSION. ,
_ _

The Deputy-Usher of the Black Rod shortly after.
wards entered the House, and summoned the Members
•to appear at the bar of the House of Peers, to hear tha
Royal Assent given by Commission to several Bills.
The SPEAKER then left the House, accompanied, by
the greater part of the Memberi present. On his return,
The SPEAKER announced that he had been to the
Bar of the House of Lords, where he had heard the
Royal Assent given by Commission to certain Bills
(for which see Lords' Report).
RETURNS.

Certain returns were presented at the bar of the
House, and ordered to be laid on the table.
PULTENEY TOWN HARBOUR BILL._

The Pulteney Town Harbour Improvement Bill was
read a second time, and ordered to be committed.
DURHAM AND COUNTY COAL COMPANY

BILL

Mr. REDHEAD YORKE moved the further con-
sideration of the Report on the Durham and County
Coal Company BilL—Agreed to.
Mr. P. HOWARD presented a petition from the
cotton-spinners of Carlisle and its neighbourhood,
de-
precating
any attempt on the part of the Legislature to
limit the hours of labour in factories.

Mr. TATTON EGERTON presented a petition from
a place in Lancashire, praying for the abolition of the
duty upon raw cotton.
Lord- ELIOT presented a petition from Cornwall
praying that the owners and not the occupiers of small
farms might be taxed for the poor rates.p •
Mr. M. GIBSON moved that the petition which he
had presented yesterday from Manchester, relative to
the Post-office, be printed with the Votes.—Agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. HUME, returns were granted
of sundry payments in the Excise department.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.-THE ADJOURN-

MENT.

After a pause of considerable duration in the business
of the House, during which Mr. Hume, Mr. T. Dun-
combe, Lord John Russell, and Mr. Manners Sutton,
were severally in close conference with Sir Robert Peel,
Mr. GLADSTONE brought up, and laid on the table,
certain returns relating to the state of agriculture in
Leicestershire.
Sir ROBERT PEEL moved that the House, at its
rising, should adjourn till Monday, the 15th instant. He
wished, at the same time, to state that he had promised
the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) that he
should, on moving the adjournment, explain the order
in which the Bills brought in by the Government, or
intended to be brought in, should be proceeded with
after Easter. In consequence of the absence of his Right
Hon. Friend, the Secretary for the Home Department,
he was unable at that moment to give the explanation.
.He would take care, however, that the order of pro-
ceeding should be set forth in the papers of the House
tomorrow. He hoped that in the course of the
evening he would have an opportunity of communi-
cating with his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham), and
if so, he would state, before the House rose, what the
course of business would be.. In the meantime he should
say that it would be a great public' inconvenience if the
Irish Franchise Bill should 'not pass before June, and it
was therefore his intention that the Bill should be read
a second time on Monday, the 15th, if the House would
allow it, and that the-discussion be taken in Committee
An Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Ewart) was, he be-.
lieved, anxious to know if the Government proposed to
do anything respecting charitable trusts, and he (Sir
Robert Peel) had to state that he believed his Noble
Friend the Lord Chancellor would, that evening, in
another place, give notice of a Bill upon the subject.
Another Hon: Member (Mr. Hume) was anxious to
know what progress had been made in opening commu-
nications with Paraguay: A Commissioner had been
sent out there by the Government, but, 'unfortunately,
from his over-desire to make himself useful, he caused
great prejudice to be' created, and he bad been obliged
to leave the country.—(Loud laughter.) Since then,
however, news of a more satisfactory character had been
received, and he indulged the hope that England, in com-
mon with France and Brazils, would be able to make some
progress in opening friendly and commercial communi-
cations with that part of the world.---(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HU'ME trusted the Government would avail itself
beeolmievmeduniictatwioonusldwibthe
tohfaetveproyrtopiopnorotfuntihtye owforelxdt,eansdihneg
very beneficial in effecting a considerable extension of
commerce.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he was satisfied with
the statement of .the Right Hon. Baronet, that at a
later part of the evening, or in the orders of the day,
they should be made acquainted with the routine which
lafterrish Ei,arGovernmentFoster.
Asve‘ovuniltidlhl followregard
personally intor ethgheaer dha had no
proposalnt hoeoi r measures
iste,lltbtiiiitat
ethveeninng;
should, on jaesottioontht:
Supply,g..t on Hon. Baronet
first
Baronet must not be
Committee of -.yroftotheopp oppose
Irishse
thrthsatted Members who were not pre-
sent that
pifroanpe praaryoo
tpaioofstnea.rl
theto
Tghhoeorlieindtahoyasda,
been a very thin attendance of Irish Members
for some days, and the great majority of them
were doubtless wholly uznajaieecientuaoinnteldvhischt
htehewopurled-
sent moment with ce
Bill. There was another subject on
of that
take that opportunity of saying
a few words to the
House. They had not unhappily made
great progress
in legislation beforethe Easter-recesevbut they hader-
tainly shown their loyalty to the Crown in a very plain
manner, for they had voted most willingly and
almost unanimously all the supplies it had

been thought proper to ask at their hands.
Among those supplies was a large sum voted for the
maintenance of a considerable number of men for the
navy. He was one of those who was most willing to
concur in that vote ,• but in considering the large amount
that was voted, he did think it necessary to say a few
words on this occasion, though he might raise a dis-
cussiOn on it hereafter, on the manner in which
that number of men was' disposed of. With
respect 'to the number of men, though it
was considerably less than the number voted -in 1841,
yet it was very considerably more than in 1835. The
statement abroad was that the naval force in the Medi-
terranean was to be reduced to a very small number of
ships of the line; it was even said that only one ship of
the line was to be left in the Mediterranean. In that
case he must say that he did not think such a reduction
would be in accordance with the general policy of this
country. They must recollect that they had some im-
portant stations in the Mediterranean, and important
interests there that might call for their interposition.
There might not be at-this moment any danger, nor any
prospect of other than amicable relations with foreign
Powers ; but should it be otherwise, and any
case for their interposition should arise, the
sudden augmentation of the navy that would be neces-
sary, would probably create great alarm. Even in the
present circumstances of the country, there was the
state of affairs in Morocco, there were insurrectionary
movements in Italy, and any circumstances of this kind
might give rise to the necessity of diplomatic represen-
tations to foreign Powers. So small a naval force, in
case of that necessity arising, would not- be ade-
quate to giving support to the interests of the country.
He thought it necessary to make those observations with
respect to the disposal of the fleet in the Mediterranean.
Sir ROBERT PEEL confessed that he felt sur-
prised at the observations of the Noble Lord.
The Noble Lord did not allege that British interests had
suffered, but he stated that it would be advisable to have
a large force in the Mediterranean. Why, that might
be advisable with regard to any portion of the world,
and there might be good grounds for having a large
force in North America, the Pacific, and the Baltic.
This might be true, but he understood the sound con-
stitutional principle was to leave the appropriation of
the forces to the Executive Government. Now, the
Government thought it right to have a num-
ber of vessels for exercise in the Channel, which would
be ready upon any emergency. There was sometimes
great adTantege in concentrating their forces. Let not
the Noble Lord suppose that their interests in the Me-
diterranean would be endangered because the fleet was
off the mouth of the Thames or in the Channel. The
Noble Lord should allow the Executive Government to
exercise its own discretion. No doubt their interests in
the Mediterranean were important, but there might be
reasons for assembling them in another place, which
he was-unwilling to enter upon. But if the Noble
Lord had a confidence in his judgment, which was just
in many respects—if he was prepared to take the com-
mand of the Channel fleet—(Mueh laughter)—surely
he might allow the Executive Government to take that
.course which it seemed best for them to pursue.
Lord PALMERSTON said that he felt no want of
confidence in his Noble Friend—(Laughter)—in any
command in which resolution and determination would
be required.—(Hear.) And if his spirit'and determination,
which were well known, were backed by the professional
skill of his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for
Marylebone, he thought they would be very formidable.
The disposition of the naval force was certainly to be
'left at the discretion of the Executive Government, but
yet the Executive Government exercised that discretion
subject to any remarks which might be made in Parlia-
ment. That discretion certainly was to be exercised
subject to a responsibility to that House. He thought,
therefore, that his Noble Friend, in taking the opportu-
nity which he had taken of making these remarks before-
hand% and directing the consideration of the Govern-
ment to the subject, had not departed from the appro-
priate exercise of those functions which devolved on him
as a Member of that House. It was true that it was
only a question of prudence, ' according to the
existing state of things, whether we should concentrate
' a large force on the:home station, or distribute it more
equally among the different foreign stations, where its
presence might be required, not for purposes of hosti-
lity, but to give that moral effect and support to our
commercial interests which the presence of a naval force
invariably afforded. In the present state of things, if
anything occurred requiring the presence of a large naval
force on the home station, it would .be quite as easy to
order the force home from the Mediterranean as to or-
der the force from the home station to the Mediterra-
nean, so that the argument of the Right Honourable
Baronet was equally applicable to either side of the
question. There certainly were grounds for hay
ing a large force in the Mediterranean, which
did not apply to the Baltic, the. Pacific, or
the coasts of the United States. We had important sta-
tions in the Mediterranean—we had colonies there.
'We had Gibraltar, Malta, and the lonian Islands, there-
fore it was natural that we should maintain a large
naval force there, and the maintenance of such de-
fence there implied nothing hostile or suspicious
towards foreign Powers ; but if a large force were
to be sent either to the Baltic, the coast of
the United States, or the Pacific, it would be supposed
either that we apprehended hostilities from some other
Powers, or that we intended something against them.
,The cases were not parallel. The question of the dis-
posableness of the force applied, as he had shown before,
las much to the one case as to the other. Our commer-
cial and political relations were of more importance
in the Mediterranean than anywhere else on the face of
the globe.. More things might happen there in which
the interests of Great Britain were concerned than
could happen elsewhere. If, therefore, the Government
intended only to maintain one sail of the line on
that station, he contended that they would not
he properly reprisenting British interests in a
quarter in which they required the most scrupulous care
and attention. He could testify, from his own experi-
ence as Foreign Secretary, that nothing was more com-
p-ion than for British merchants connected with the
Mediterranean to apply for protection and assistance.
Considering the difficulties which might arise from time
to time in that quarter, ho thought it not a wise dis-
tribution of the naval forces to have only one ship of the
line in the Mediterranean, and net the ordinary amount
of foie' usual on former occasions. If it were a privi-
;e(ve of Members of that House to criticise events after
they happened, he thought it a more useful privilege to
throw out suggestions before the occurrence of events.
Mr. HUMk was sorry to hear any objection to the
reduction of the naval force. lie had lately received a
letter from a naval officer at Malta, in which the writer
stated that there could be nothing more disadvantageous
to the interests of the navy than leaving large line-of-
battle-ships in the Mediterranean. They laid up at
Malta and other places there for twelve months, and
were much exposed to losing their discipline. He also
trusted that the Right Hon. Bart. would see the necessity
of removing the swarm of gun-boats from the Shannon.

RELIISTRATION—BILL (IRELAND).
Mr. WYSE complained of so early a day after Easter
being fixed for the second reading of this Bill, as had been
announced by the Eight Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R.
Peel). If it was necessary that the Bill should come into
Operation at once, it should have been. introduced at an
earlier period of the .session. He thought it would be
More judicious to defer the second reading until a later
period.
existlllem boenrst.he the feeling which appeared to
Sir R. PEEL said, he would not, on any account, press
Cs,(,)bniseicdte!hinegwould postpone the second the second reading of the Bill against the wish of Irish
read-
ing of the Bill from Monday (the 15th) until Friday.
Mr. EWART wished to know whether it was .the
intention of the Government to lay before the House any
digest or code of criminal laws, founded on the report of
the Criminal Law Commissioners. He begged also to
ask the Hon. Member for Lewes, whether it was his
intention to bring forward that evening his motion with
respect to probate duty.
Sir R. PEEL said he was not prepared to introduce
any Bill to reform the criminal law of this country. All
the information on that subject was already in the pos-
session of the House.

➢lr. ELPHINSTONE said that so many gentlemen
had left town, that he did not think it would be desira-
ble to bring on that evening the motion to which the
Hon. Gentleman referred.
CHINA.

Sir R. PEEL brought up certain dispatches respecting '
China, amongst which was onewith respect to The treaty
lately entered into between this country and China.
Ordered to be laid on the table.
Mr. lIUME was desirous that her Majesty's Govern-
ment should give the public a fac-simile of the Chinese
treaty, with an English translation.—(Laughter.) Ho
thought it would be very acceptable to the public as a
matter of curiosity—(A. laugh)—and it would not be
very expensive.
Sir.ROBERT PEEL begged to ask if the Hon. Mem-
ber made a motion ? and if so, was it seconded by a
gentleman who knew the Chineselanguage ?—(Laugh ter.)
Mr. HAS riE
whose observation was not distinctly
heard in the gallery, but excited much laughter in the
,
House, was understood to say, that if a motion were
made, ho would second it.
SIR HENRY POTTINGER.
Sir R. PEEL said he could not lay upon the table the
last diplomatic
Paper from Sir H. Pottinger—(who, after
a service ofnearly halfacentury, had now retired, against
the wishes and representations of the Government)—with-
out bearing testimony to the singular ability, zeal, firmness,
and discretion, with %Well he had performed the duty
undertaken by him under critical and difficult circum-
stances, and performed by him in a manner which se-
cured to him the confidence and esteem of the Chinese
Government, equally with that of the Government
which he represented.—(Hear, hear.) He aas disposed
to say more npon the merits of that distinguished gen-
tleman, bat he was aware that a panegyric was weak-
ened by being diluted:--(
Hear.) ' He" would only say,
that it was impossible to bear, higher testimony than he
could to the merits of• Sir Henry 'Pottinger.—(Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON' rose to bear testimony to the
truth of the handsome eulogy which the Right Hon.
Gentleman had passed-
upon that distinguished public
officer.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think that the eulogy
could be exaggerated, for those who witnessed his ser-
vices only regretted that he had not still greater oppor-
tunities of rendering services to his country. It was
only by his own merits the gallant and distinguished officer
obtained the opportunity of so well earning the thanks
of the Government and the country. When he (Lord
Palmerston) recommended to his colleagues the appoint-
ment of Sir Henley Pottinger, he did so without any
political consideration. indeed, up to the present mo-
ment he did not know what Sir Henry's general
political sentiments might be. When he (Lord
Palmerston) asked his colleagues to request the
'assistance of Sir Henry Pottinger, he had no per-
sonal acquaintance with him, and he was only led
to make choice of him
in consequence of the ability
which he had. displayed in India.—(Hear, hear.) He
must also say that it was only justice to the present Go-
vernment to state that the successor of Sir Henry Pot-
tinger bad been selected without any regard to political

considerations, and solely on account of his distinguished

merits.