The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNIN.G, JULY 20, 1844.

which it was granted. He would say no more on the
subject but that he was impressed with the conviction
that it was not in a satisfactory state, and that the posi-
tion of that College would be one of the subjects to
which her Majesty's Government would direct their at-
tention.—(Hear, hear.) If he entered into details it
would be most likely to raise objections, and he would
therefore abstain from doing so.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHEIL said they were indebted to his Right
Hon. Friend, not only for an admirable exposition, but
for an excellent speech, characterised by wisdom and by
moderation ; and for being the means of inducing the
Right. Hon. Gentleman to make the important declara-
tions of opinion which he had just announced, and
which he, for one, must praise reluctantly but most sin-
cerely.—(Hear, and a laugh.) For the assurances he
gave he could not but be thankful. Amongst the other
incidents in the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech, there
was this excellent one, that he availed himself of this oc-
casion of acknowledging the thanks which his Right
Hon. Friend had earned for his labours in the cause of
education for many years, always useful, but to a great
extent unknown.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that the
Education Commission, introduced by the late Govern-
ment, was founded on the suggestion of his Right Hon.
He repeated the declaration he had made, that this
subject had occupied the serious consideration of her
Majesty's Government, and that it was one to which the
attention of his Noble Friend, who was about to assume
the chief office in Ireland had been directed. At an
early period of next session the Government would com-
mence the measures which it was their intention to adopt;
and if those were unsuccessful, the Right Hon. Gentleman
would have an opportunity of introducing a measure of
his own. With regard to the College of Maynooth, he
would not hesitatte to say that it was not in a satisfac-
tory state.—(Cheers form the Opposition.) If the mo-
ney granted to Maynooth was a violation of principle, it
was equally a violation of principle whether it was small
or great ; and he had no hesitation in saying that the
present amount was inadequate to meet the purposes for
Friend ; and that the plan which they introduced was
sketched by him. He would only make one suggestion.
His Right Hon. Friend referred to a statute of
Charles the Second. There was a more important
statute than that, viz., the Act of 1793. It was pro-
vided by the 7th section of the 32d of George IL,
chap. 31, that Roman Catholics might hold or take de-
grees of any professors, or be masters or fellows of any
college to be hereafter founded, provided that such should
be members of the University of Dublin. The College
of the Holy Trinity was to be exclusively for Protestant
purposes, but in any other colleges, to be hereafter
founded, Protestants and Roman Catholics were to be
equally admissible. Thus one of the great difficulties at-
tending this subject would disappear, and if any person
should say that they were sapping the foundations of the
Church, show him this Act of Parliament, in which was
contained its refutation.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BELLEW said he intended to speak at some
length on this question, but after the excellent speech of
the Right Hon. Baronet, he would not detain the House.
He thought that if the Government supported the College
of Maynooth, as it ought to be supported, they would
have sufficient control over the Catholic priesthood.
Lord J. MANNERS said he could not refrain from
expressing his cordial thanks to the Government for
the announcement made that night by the Right Hon.
Baronet. He took that announcement as an earnest
of a more consistent and a more prosperous line of
policy for the future, as an earnest of the necessity of
governing Ireland on the only true and sound prin-
ciple on which it could be governed.—(Hear, hear.)
He trusted that the sentiments expressed by the Right
Hon. Baronet would be carried into effect, and that
the result would be as prosperous as he was sanguinely
inclined to think it would be. He thanked the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite for the temperate manner in
which he brought forward his motion. He came down
for the purpose of supporting the views disclosed in
his motion, and he took that opportunity of again ex-
pressing his cordial thanks to the Government for the
line of policy they indicated that night.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GROGAN said the announcement of the Right
Hon. Gentleman would take Ireland by surprise ; the
people of that country were not prepared for such a
comprehensive measure. In commencing this work he
hoped they would bear in mind that the national system
of education now in existence had not been an apple of
peace, but in them a source of discord.—(Hear, hear.)
Whatever colleges might be established, he hoped the
principles of the Protestant Church would be borne
in mind.

Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN begged to inquire whe-
ther he had rightly understood the Hon. Member for
Waterford, that if the Government did not found col-
leges tor the Roman Catholics, they would be driven to
found them for themselves, in a spirit of hostility to the
Protestant Church ? _

_
Mr. WYSE said nothing could be more remote from
his intention than to say that the Roman Catholics would
establish a college for the purpose of expressing their
hostility to the Protestant body. What he had said was,
that if the Government did not sympathise with them,
and open the University of Dublin, and improve the
College of Maynooth, so as to secure their participation
in the intellectual rewards of the country, they would
be driven to establish a university of their own, which,
though it might be productive of some considerable ad-
vantage, would, as regarded rivalry and competition, be
hostile to the Establishment.

The motion for granting 40,000/. for education in
Great Britain was then carried.

On the motion that 72,0001. be granted to her Majesty
fur education in Ireland,
Colonel VERNER said he had in the last session
moved for a return connected with this grant. He did
not wish to accuse any person connected with the Na-
tional Board of having wilfully made a false ,return, but
the return which had been made was very incorrect.
There was a school at Newry which had been omitted in
the return. He should not move to have the returns
amended, for they would serve his purpose even in their
present state. He would state a fact which had been re-
lated to him, and which would show the state of instruc-
tion in those schools. An inquest had been held in one
of the school-houses connected with the National Board.
and when the witnesses were called, there could not be
found a copy of the Testament either in the school or in
the schoolmaster's house, on which to swear the
witnesses.

Mr. M. MILNES thought that if the proposal of her
Majesty's Government had been received in a better
spirit by the Protestant clergy in Ireland, there would
have been less fear of the recurrence of those evils which
the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had adverted to than
at present existed.—(Hear, hear.) He rose with great
pleasure to express the entire sympathy which he felt
with everything that had fallen from the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government, and if the pro-
posal of the Right Hon. Gentleman should be carried
out there would not be a laurel upon his brow that
would last longer or brighter.
Mr. PLUMPTRE could not look upon this increase
in the Maynooth grant as one that was called for on
natural grounds. He felt that the Protestants of Ireland
would consider themselves wounded, if not neglected, by
this proposal of her Majesty's Government. The Prime
Minister had been much congratulated by Hon. Gentle-
men opposite, but he felt that he was not justified in fol-
lowing them. He felt that he ought not to attempt to
foster principles, which as a Protestant it was his duty
to abjure; and he was sure that the proposition of the
Government would not be received by the Protestants
of this country in the same spirit with which it had been
received in that House. He should, therefore, divide
the Committee against it, even though he stood lone in
doing so.

Lord PALMERSTON said he merely rose to concur
in the expressions of satisfaction at the way in which
his Hon. Friend the Member for Waterford (Mr. Wvse)
had brought forward his motion, and also at what -had
fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) in
reply to it. He trusted, by next session, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman would be able 'to arrange a good and
useful measure, and he might rest assured that, from
that side of the House, as well as from other quarters,
he would receive a willing and hearty support.
Mr. LEFROY said, while he honoured the conduct of
the Gentleman who brought forward this motion (Mr.
Wyse), as it was consistent with all his former expressed
opinions, he must beg to express his regret at the lan-
guage of the Prime Minister, which, if not inconsistent
with his own language on former occasions, was at all
events greatly at variance with what a large body of his
supporters had a right to expect from him.—(Hear.)
Mr. ROSS heartily rejoiced at the progress education
was making in Ireland. He was also delighted that
from the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet hopes
might now be entertained,' that education in Ireland
would be placed on a proper footing.
The question was then put and carried, that 72,0001.
should be granted to her Majesty, to defray the expenses
of education in Ireland.
The sum 0f9,0001. was then proposed as the usual grant
to the College of Maynooth.
Sir G. CLERK said he believed there was an inten-
tion to divide on the vote, but he understood it would
not be further discussed.
• Lord CLIVE hoped that the Government would ex-
tend a grant to the Church Education Society of Ireland.
Mr. D. BROWNE said, if the Chnrch did not avail
itself of a national system of education, it was not the
fault of the Government ; andit should be remembered
that the Church had 800,000/. a year, to apply to the
spiritual teaching of the people.
Lord C. HAMILTON said the schools of the Church
Society were also open to all who chose to enter them.
He thought the schools were equally entitled to a grant
from the Government.
Sir R. PEEL said the vote for the national schools had
been agreed to, and he apprehended that the vote now
before the House was the usual vote to the Col-
lege of Maynooth. The Government had declined
to give a separate grant to the Church Education So-
ciety, on the ground that if they did, there would soon
be three separate systems of education—the Roman
Catholic, the Established Church, and one for the
Presbyterians, who would soon claim with the others.
This would rather tend to prevent that friendly feeling
and union among the subjects of the Queen differing in
their religious faith that was so much to be desired. The
present system was intended for a joint system, and it
was hoped that the children of Protestants and Roman
Catholics might be able to receive together in early life
the inestimable benefits of education.—(Hear, hear.)
He hoped that the hostility to the system on the part of
the clergy of the Established Church was abating, and
there was a proof, in a late publication of a respectable
clergyman, that the system was not accurately appre-
ciated.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that too sanguine
expectations would not be entertained in consequence
of what he had said in the early part of the evening.
What he said was, that the Government would en-
deavour to devise the best mode of imparting to Ire-
land the means of academical education for persons of
all persuasions, and would do that in the most friendly
and kind spirit, and also that the College of Maynooth
was not in a satisfactory state.
Mr. BELLEW said 80,000/. a-year was exclusively ap-
plied to the education of Protestants, besides the means