The Sun.
London, England, 1850-02-19 00:00:00

mvEßrooE, FEB. 18.

STOCK EXCBANGE.-- Cho transactions to-day were as
follow : Lancashire and Yorkshire, Fifths, 7% . dis.
London and North-Western, 110—Ditto, New Quarters, Sp.
—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, Preference, -
Midland, Halves, 148 dis.—South-Eastern and Dover (No.
4), 6%g—Great Western, 631/9.
MANCHESTER, FEB. 18.
STOCK EXCUANGE.—The transactions to-day were as
follow :—East Lancashire, 10 3-16 n.—Ditto, Preference,
Quarters (min. 6 per cent.), 71/2 —Lancashire and York-
shire,gifths, 7% dis.—London, Brighton, and South Coast,
Preference (min. 6 per cent.), 136—London and North-
Western, New Quarters, 34 p.—Ditto, Manchester and Bir-
mingham, Quart, rs (C), 13-16 p.—North Staffordshire, 10A
dis.—:•hropshire Union, 31/2 dis.—South-Eastern and Dover
(No. 4), Scrip, 6 3-16 c.
YORK, FEB. 16.
STOCK EXCHANGE.—The transactions to-day were as
follow : Great Northern, 61/2—Shtffield, Rotherham, and
Goole (N. Div.), guaranteed 5 per cent., 17',7 —Turk and
North Midland, 191,1 .

The important and valuable rectory of St. Andrew,
Holborn, is about to undergo a clange of incumbents,
the Rev. J. T. Robinson, who has been non-resident for
the last four ye Irs, having effected an exchange with the
Rev. J. J. Tocgood, vicar of North Petherton, near
Bridgewater, and rural dean in the diocese of Wells.
The living of St. Andrew, which is in the gift of the
Duke of Bucoleucb, is of the value of 1,2001. a year.
HORSES FEOM TEE CAPE or GOOD LlorE.—The
vessel Nile, arrived in the East India Docks from Cal-
cutta and the Cape respectively, has brought several
horses from the latter place as a portion of the cargo.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. IS.

AUSTRALIAN COLONIES GOVERNMENT BILL,
ADJOURNED DEBATE.

On the order of the day being read for resuming the
debate on the second reading of this Bill,
Mr. SCOTT rose to move that the second reading of
the Bill be postponed until further papers on the subject
be laid en the table of this House. He said, being
of opinion that the House ought to give to the Austra-
lian colonies fundamental laws similar to those cif our
own country, he could not consent to the Bill being read
a second time. He did not think we should long retain
those colonies if institutions so entirely diffrent from
those which we ourselves enjoyed wero continued in them.
In France and the United Sates this principle had
worked badly, and he could not understand on what in-
ducement the Government had adopted it with regard to
the Australian colonies. The Bill which was now before
them continued on the existence of one chamber of
legislature in those colonies. Now the Governinerit
every member cf it, so far as he understood—and all tho
colonial governors, hsd expressly declared their settled
convictions that one chamber of legislature was not
sufficient t ensure the careful consideration of those
laws by which any considerable community was to be
or ought to be governed. Universal experience had
shown that the reliance upon the wisdom of one
body of men was quite insufficient to ensure
sound conclusions for the direction of a colony.
A true and fair illustration of such a state of
things in tnis country, would be to suppose that 230
Members of that House were nominee; of the Govern-
ment, and forced to vote as Government pleased:
such was the state of government in Australia.
One chamber had no precedent, there was not a
single precedent in history for one chamber, looking
back from the time of Mr. Pitt'a Bill down to the date
of the present papers which were laid before the House.
It was much more likely to continue quarrels between
the chamber and the Government by having one
house instead cf two. He could give more instances than
ono of the danger which had arisen in our colonies
from the ore!-anxiety cf a single chamber to pass
laws. By this Bill, however, they granted the colony
one chamber, but it went even farther than that, for it
gave the colonists the power of adopting whatever go-
vernment they thought fit. Nothing was more
calculated to create discontent in the colony,
and he therefore hoped the House would
amend the Bill at once, and assimulate the government
of the colony to that of the mother country.
The Secretary cf State for the Colonies had
stated that certain persons in this country, who re-
preserved the settlers in New South Wales, expressed
their satisfaction with one legislative chamber, but
the general opinion in the colony was that there
ought to be two chambers, and, therefore their
representations trust have been incorrect.-411par.)
He thought the measure had bum undertaken without
dee consideration, and he therefore opposed the second
reading of the Bill, and would move that the second
reading should be deferred till further papers were pro-
duced on the subject.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that it was the intention
cf Government, by this Bill, to ealarge the constitution
cf those colonies, and to enable them to legitlate for
themselves, independently of this House. Ho was pre-
pared to prove that the wishes of the inhabitants of those
colonies were completely opposed to the opinions of the
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Scott), for they consider that one
Chamber is more conducive to their interest; than two,
by means of which they will be enabled to manage their
own business. He then referred to a petition forwarded
to her Majesty by Sir C. Fitzroy, from numerous meet-
ings of the inhabitants of those colonies, of every rank,
prating for a single Chamber. By this Bill they would
give the colonies a power to form measures for there-
selves; they proposed to untie their hand:, and he did
not think that they (the Government) wero unwise in
doing so.—(Hear, hear.) But he did think that it was
not asking too much for the Crown of England to retain
a power to consider any proposals that the colonies might
make in respect to matters affecting those colonies. The
desix o of the colonies wee, that the Legislature cf this
country should give them two Chambers instead of one
Now, as an abi tract principle, he should prefer two Cham-
bers to one; but if they were to have a single Chamber, he
thought there should be such a counterpoise as the
Government proposed to that system. He thought it
most desirable that the House should confine itself at
present to the consideraton of the question before it,
and that it could on other occasions deal with the
measure in its detail?. He had gathered much from
the Australian newspapers of the state of public feeling
there on the subject, and he had no dean the proposed
Bill would give satisfaction to the colonists. He hoped,
therefore, that nothing would occur to mar the measure,
and trusted that the House would not dissent from the
second reading of the Bill.—(Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK could not approve of the sort of
constitution which the Government proposed to give to
the colonies in question. The Right Honourable Gen-
tleman who had just sat down said that the Bill now be-
fore the House proposed to give enlarged powers to the
colonists. Now, as to the manner of those powers, and
to the principles of this Bill, he (Mr. Roebuck) at once
objected. It was a Bill that would give to the nominees
of the Crown in the colonies a power which he hoped the
House would dissent from. The Government propose i
that the Legislature cf this country should throw off
their own shoulders a responsibility, and they said, in
effect, that the Legislature of this country was riot now
fit to govern ,the Colonies._(" Hear, heir," from Mr.
flume.) The Hon. Member for Montrose cried " Hear,
hear," as if he (Mr. Roebuck) meant t say tnat this
country could not govern the colonies; but such was not
his meaning. What he wished the House to do was to
form such a constitutional measure as they could tend
out to the colonists with confidence, and as would put
an end to the constant conflicts which were arising be-
tween the mother country and her colonies. He thought
that the Government was about to propose some well-
directed measure, some great and comprehensive scheme
of legislation, whereas the propOsed Bill was the great-
est abortion that could be. If he took in his hand the
constitution of the Canadas brought in by Mr. Pitt, he
found it clear, definite, and logical; it told them whet
the franchise which was to elect the Assembly was; but
the measure now proposed was miserably deficient in
those respects. What did the Government now do?
They began by reciting five or six Acts of Parlia-
ment, without, repealing them. Now, what did that
mean? They talked of sending out a constitution to the
colonists, but none but the eye of a lawyer could under-
stand it. As to the Bill giving to those colonists what
was strictly called a House of Commons, he utterly de-
nied it. Now, what ought this House to do with respect
to those colonies? Why, to see that a proper constitu-
tion, made by Act of Parliament, should be sent out to
them. They were told in the House that one of those
colonies, South Africa, a cut-and-dry constitution had
already been tent out from the Colonial-office. Now,
would it be said that while the authorities in Downing-
street could send out a cut-and-dry constitution to South
Africa, the Parliament of Great Britain was not to have
the power of framing a constitution for South Austra-
lia? They might talk of giving great powers by the
proposed constitution, but it was no such thing; it was
nothing else but a mere device to retain the power in
a few hands in the government in the colonies. Ho
would caution the House how they were preceeding—
he would caution them how they were laying
a foundation which it would be difficult to get rid of.
Time, he granted, might work out a cure of the evils,
which, through some singular caprice, was giving birth
to this strange "juggle" of a constitution—(Laughter.)
Let them take care that they did not, by this proceeding,
loosen the tie which this country now had on the colo-
nies. Let them take care that they did not abandon
their right of power in those colonies. He would now
refer the House to the abuecs which resulted to the Ca-
nadas and the mother country from the mismanagement,
ignorance, and despotism which in former times marked
the acts of the parties at the head of the colonial do-
tal talent. An attempt was made by Mr. Pitt to create
and estsblish an aristocracy in Canada, but he utterly
failed; yet, in the face of every failure in that way, it
was now proposed to make the experiment in Australia.
He thought there were some parties in the back-ground
who were urging this scheme, and seeing the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Under-Secretary for the Colonies in his
place, he must say that he, like his superior in office, '
was made a tool of in this business.
Mr. HAWES—No, no.

Mr. ROEBUCK—If the Hon. Gentleman is desirous
to make out Ow. his superior only was the tool, Le (Mr.
Roebuck) would leave him the liberty to do so.-
(Lauglitcr.) The Hen. and Learned Gentleman then
proceeded to refer to the unsatLfactory stste of things
ie the Canadas, which were becoming in every respect
so like the United States that British subjects, desirous
of living under Englisq laws, English government, and
Britisb:proteetion, preferred in the present day to eini•
grate to South Africa. They
were sending out very
larfie bodies f Irish, and Scotch to their
c°".
wo.t desirablo that they
should
vei
take care to give them, what he believed they
8h
British rule,
such a constitution as would ensure to tilem 13ri

~..------------ LI
Well, they were now about to make a eonetitution nt,
Eng:di:lnnen located in Australia, and wise the messar,e,
he would ask, such a one as would prove satisfactory lv
tbe coionsts? It was clear it was not.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not think he had ever beard
so so many errors and mistakes with respect to constletnad
ties. al theor history, and practice, as the nell'ssb.
Learned Gentleman had made in the course able alle_ve`d
—(A laugh, and " Hear.") The Hon. and Loon.,
Gentleman had referred to the Act of Mr. Pitt, batuao°
re o la not have selected a more unfortunate model, hecellded
by that Act the Government of Canada, being di
ere
into the Legislative Council, the members a which of,
LW:lied by the Government, and the popular Asson, the
people al!itutioe
many bitter dissensions arose between the
Assembly, and the consequence was, that leglPosti.
came to an entire stop, in consequence of the 114
bility of making the two bodies act togethe feet as
Mr. ROEBUCK had merely quoted M. Pitts into
a clear mode of making a legislative constitution Pa.
a loeical form.
Lord J.„RUSSELL—If the Governraent bad proposed
a measure that would act well, it was content t 0 g17,0`,
something in point of logicel precision and eleganc:l iete-
guege, fertile sake of the substantial benefits of g°
care, I'dttiehil;
vernment. The Hon. Member said it rcquired
time, and legal knowledge, in order to underetel3og use
Bill. Now, he would not say that persons roast not
that
care and attention, but it was no; too much to ask to
care and attention should be utel, and with regard
se•
legal knowledge, it would not require more thenw with
qeaintance with those general principles of,iii iiior in
which Members of that house ought to h°lll3,eareed
matters of legislstion.—(llear.) The 110°' all" d Pre.
Gent!eman a-lred how it was the Government stead Of
feared a Legislature formed cf a single body, inboth of
having a Legislature composed of two bochesioraed
whom should be elective. And the Hon. andeestralis
Ign'ter said—'• Never mind the cpinion a --
accord„.
and New South Wales, but frame a constitution
,bi
iin,g to your own notions of what is right mud tictearPti
That was now language from the Hon. ond,,,„se tbil
Member. The House would not, however, surrooferir
what be spoke of as the fanciful measure cf the 842 die
ment had been the constitution by which since ld ifils
colony of New South Wales had been Verne: id
Hon. and Learned Member said it was the Col°°lshe CO'ot
that had introduced this measure, and this was S eve
mow
way in which the power of the Crown was
"eve.
of. But it was the power of the Co:oTc elev.
cised through the Secretary of State, which I,titati°
Mein!. er disputed, when he said that every c°11,',,,d ,ip•
of a. colony must be in the first instance selecle" and
Pr
proved of by Parliament. In 1849, after a C°111:1'6°111b
Ininated by the Crown had legislated- for Nell under
Wales, an Aot ' f Parliament
which a Legisia'ise Counoilwasweasstablishcd, occe-root
of the members of which were nera(d 12Y heoroviaeAe•
and ice -thirds elected by the peopl of She r d s:li`"
Now, if tie people of New Soothe Wales hasve we
" We do not approve of that single clonlkheeerje'rePre;
wish to have two chambers instead of omen "-)-„smaiitte-
sentations would have been laid before tbe:o-4-ly °°,,i''
cf the Privy Council, who would have act-g-h'euld be
sidered the mode in which such a constitutioar "mho' Is
cot furred. The Ilerourable and Learned 11-e-colooia'i
omistaken in supposing that the clinks of pithth Rile:
filee— although they did their elute' ~,,porteoc;
ability—had to decide a question of this; -sitetetlT
which was no; left even to the•SecretarY It Coellen'
was referred to a Committee of the frt:', Is reA:
6vshe made their report, which was after-fitsr "--19
- idered by the Government, and they, tic Gofer
deitheration, and upon the responsibility of t;11:80 of dine
ment, the Loi,asure was introduces. Toe °Padj,l-erocie,f
Committee,t of the Privy Council and of tae ~'-'-10 ells":
so way probably theoretically in fivour °1.4-ot s3/'
hers. The coloni
quests
eiler
_a:1110;f
,_ A did not pen
ste, on the other nen., • beta
" Wo have maturely considered the
the Legislature composed of a single
composed of two bodies," but they did saf that 00
already had R Legislature in the colons, in whileeetedsbi
was a large popular element, one-third being sActb.i jer
the Crown and two-thirds by the peoplo-41); hot 0::
Glared that they did not wish for any cluing° - bed el!,
int, the principle of that Legislature until the,' sea his
ie opportunity of considering such a Chang r) ois;
what manner it should be effected.—(Elear, 1113,11"41ear',
was all that the Government now proposal. 000
They Propvsed t ) say—" We will listen te tbat °Pb tile
which g.
we have introduced a measure similar to that • hat elee
surercooists of New South Wales alieedy hoc nncisti whether
will remain in force until you have consi-dere orl helf
a different form of constitution will be desirable,ableow
the two chamhers shall be fortrei, when s fav°111.1!" Tho
shall be taken of your opinions on that seljecie'yer, n 1
pouter would still remain in the Crown, il°l7stitetl,
allowing or disannulling that change in there „ ishISI
It the Government had to frame a secona lethe eel
Council and Upper House for Amt;alia, it wetinio saehaiti
doubtful if they would be able to frame at °":" oof :
second chamber as would meet the approbstzsioeed fiebP-
eolonitts of South Australia. In the Cape °f - LI- 0u1d,;,;:r.9
the Government proposed that the elect shoe' eole:rt
rested in certain bodies, and in ceitAin PCP:flip-0 sira,:,l4
of:lee under Government. He believed tta,;;A.- ;117;
offices existed in Australia, but even if tile "..-11:
be by no means clear to him that Austrao° 00 to ' 8
South Wales would pre'er such a body of el in th°l,3
single body now proposed to be establishneesed t°:
shoe
colonies. The Government inieht have Pretr-tee 1"5"-beeo
House to pass a niessure which did not me' still torts
of the colonists, or they might have proposo,hB rePaf
first sent out to the colony, and then, uP°n " noonsh.'e
mani(glhrte,presentations made by the colonists the ,htbei
might a year hence, have framed a aleswlrblewhi;e the
ctoulitnnts.tts.. But.
h ~ i , constitution row b f
suppessee•as wit°lantdot aberotir Tij'etiPot:e*,rhBtaiv°intiagigPil
e ore
ideae colontsTopea
out and met with t. .
le approbation franiv tbe
Governm uro c bi, ,
ent should carry out a
the JeousL .- t
that principle, leaving it to be settled heresf %side°
colonists themselves whether they should or SP bea"
make a change in that constitution?—(Hear'o et:
He submitted to the House that the Goveroleterellhee
Pursuing a course much more consistent with which s,"
toithe opinions of the colony than the course; see ue.;
lon. Member called upon them to pursue. 'tit tbOthif
should be a body having a certain &greet.° ass a-r;
authority, and confidence its its Members. It arh
the Aesrs.embinlye-e,
sirablethe also that they should act es S cheek
00 ;,t:
hoanodf the
that they elienit• ,sotat.sr
which mere
but little weight, popular rei:a' 100:80
to
several of of the
oeur bc'olioeniescifthe ti-eii:e°4elll;
nham
Councilb vl
leads
sisting of persons nominates by Crow'' 14 d ill
in consecineac.,° of and vi
no weight except as having etehne so COrnint:ttref: flit
had
ancient societies like that of the mother 0011, t he gc,
the United
individuals
position
even in
q uir e m eyn tst the
ef
States, this difficulty Inigaishoi ego*
over b
eminent
House, or Senate of either county but it Wage ho' s
to say, " Point out a col y; 11 tell Y° 01 Jebel
colon and I trill
efe (Do
leo
second chamfer ma be .
Russell) ,
.y formed in if. iluce* °hi, fOr
said, that in some of our colonies stl, ,ira. , to
sealnecdteddisit(s;ll3'theoBll; eP.tro-i•
_chamber was not to be formed, and it was "eleao3hc'pei•
those who contended for a second elective ' the al- -
in Gov°
point out such cond. • requisite
conditions as were he eoss
hers, if such a chamber could be fulfilled• e el a
131 0°
ment, then, were continuing by the present hese- it
stitution
against which they had certainif
eloyed,so,
very loud remonstrances, and hi) b colcni es
would be more' the try
acceptable to ~, co° Alter'
than to have one sent out from te.- ot to -hieb
a model of perfecqon which they wereevr-eecee've-tef.
The Hon. Member had alluded to the di'lierl'-ited Pt-e'of
he said existed between Canada and the n.'nfiessc-dif
and he had attributed this difference to the 1ell) I°l.Bo
the Colonial-office. Now he (Lord Jobn l'll3-0-f Cant-ber
knew in what respect the united provinceesr sof jen-er
were not as free as the state of New York, e 0 the b", 01,
of the United States of America. It was tr„11 Goveer-tba
bitants of Canada could not elect their Crown all" the,
that being the connexion between the Crnattere as
colony. But, on the other hand, in Buell theinT 0119;et-erti
imposition of the tariff, and the levyitig ter h-tier
duties, the inhabitants of Canada d far gres fc4
e
had
e,, , or av eel
than was • enjoyed by the state of New lorp'et, thei 4J,
of the states.—(He spee- (Do ' is
Hear hear,) In these re cre
.441
left more free to pursue their own course•
ii,'"-00 val'o to
Russell) believed that the dissentious bet obatse stir
Parties ;in Canada had been the grendieisielleille,
their progress, and that the unfortuvate Ore'
,ta 0 ase
posed to have been the suggestion 0. -° tee oseees'
between Upper and Lower Canada had heen roll eot
e WO Pdie gr r
a great part of the slow progress 0, - night eeee e-,
But he had occasion to show the other "*Tith, ",e aa"
increase which was taking place in the ive.•
ova p
rest 0,
ports, and the population of the Canadtilogene°lo/°:
nothing to prevent those provinces 01eotes e eta f°
progress in these respects as any of 1":0001314 whle-
Trihcae, except, perhaps, some of the 1,00004010
There was no measure for their interns' veld. re' which
os• • to s
the Secretary of State for the Colon the Weotio (clingy'',
consent, and a great proportion of the„c/eoPle c'e ihe o°,;
concerned them would be settled by the part °' 40010-
without the slightest interference on tP:berefor°tn the 118;1
vernor or the Secretary of State. So • ficao,e "„,- a gilt
with confidence to the support of the been trn-eeeel °re"'
cond reading of this Bill, which had " the gel3A-whiel
very considerable care, after knowing ' 0' 00-
18'llei,10' 0%00
nion of the colonists of Now Social haa w- heel I,*
as far as the Government could learn, , , hoe de • sec,- A
of in the colony. He thought it woili° 0 01., wool,
inexpedient if the Government had thrn:of sehaileseieg
Bill to frame a Bill on their own anti°. N of '', tea tilt'
be desirable, and if, instead of the printa edopp, ~,be
the people to govern themselves, they Gentians of Il'e
proposition of the Hon. and Leerned
eregstivecto ciO
would endeavour to set aside the Pereslithil
ter
Crown, the • - opinion of the colonists, dials
Brea'
some fantastic notions of his OVVD.—(uu
ffer to tbe g belvg
Mr. F. PEEL had no objections to (t)Tort libiliPs 0111
part of thin measure. He *proved 0 rovisios ette
to tee
made into a separate district, and of thebPoolool _of ,
allowed the Legislative Counci in erthe ell:tion °j.
the charges on the civil list, exceP At, app, t° opera:
Governor's salary, without requiring_roote inwe orpeii
the Government before 'these changee'oeel tiOsseseeSea
Lion. It was also a wise provision.V.led and ;iich et.s..
rate institutions which were eetal?!raies, and wci to Sy;
under letters patent in New South be osuitryho toals
excited discontent and appeared 1" /gear.) ,the
its
wants and wishes of the colonists.7-:_r 804.40010,
principle of the Bill had also his }3l:ll,Js Alteese 1:
oval" üblu
recognition of a popular represent
otieuhe g ,a do
able element in the forniation_
_Ol „your 0., _ shorC _
But Le owned be was predisposed
_lO .L.,hottornesieg a
chamber. Ho should like to see til ivt ege ',top)
• lativo bodiee, Elfuse, !' _ the
between two distinct legislative A., 0,.
would he r
bees peceeel
that this .
_be
negative upon the other
The Noble Lord himself admitted tb "'eel:we onnTisoe
of a ot' Dot:
best course. This truth in favour
Noble did
0
was admitted and conceded both by the ~ Ile upoo
CO ne".• I deg or
self and the Committee of YrivY -- ;II iegio a . he, 6
say the Hours would be justified in Geed wishes
, eepree he tte.
abstract notions against tue but ebig 011, de
COonh
peculiar circumttances of the wish on ueee4 OP
whether the colony had expressed a
Iv' iiich Ow
in that clear and umniotaltable Ifq

(or
Tel
to

Vustiff a deviation fern the usual type of colonial go-
rnments. The opinion of the coloortts of rely South
Wales was to be sooHot in the resolutions passed at
pt blic meetings, in the acts of the Assembly, and liT
ispatches of the Governor. With regard to the resolu-
tions passed et public meetiogr, he he:leved it tires in the
loiddle of 1847 that L,rd Grey first communicated, in a
(LlfitPhaaTtcleT.,olhoirsi),?.roposition for remodelling the constitution
anThat scheme !not with. great oepc;si.iion,
!eel exeite•d ranch discontent. It ceet a:tied a proposition
To divide the legislative body into two chambers, but it
'4''att not against that part of the scheme that the indig•
oration of the colonists was raised. It wns to that por-
yen of it which proposed to deprive the colonists of the
franchise
they
then
enjo•Yed, and reduce them to the con-
dition
mere primary electors —to elect the district
councils, by whom again the representatives of the Le-
tleative Council were to be nominated.—(Hear, hear.)
es •!Y Petition, indeed, from the colony, with one ex-
thq'tt re complained of the attempt made to deprive
was the
their elective franchise.-(Bear, hear.) It this
Wiltshtttease with the people, how did the matter stand
Legislative Council ? No sooner did the Le-
gislative Council meet after Lord Grey's dispatch ar-
'l el, than they resolved themselves into a Committee
he whole House. and by a small majority ndopt:d,
Zitlr considerable discussion, a resolution to this effect:—
That this Council is disposed to view fivourably the
„Pr°P°'ition fur separating the deliberations of the nomi-
-th'es of the Crown from those of the representatives of
w.e People."—(flear, hear.) The Executive Council
!Fe unanimously in favour of division of the logic-
isrelve body, end with respect to the Governors both of
et s' South Wales and Van Diernerile Lande they dr-
ea,led themselves in favour of a separation of the two
.'l‘-'s• He therefiro could not find in Australia any
id r" of opinion adverse to the proposition for di-
""un4 the thou Legislature into two chwnhers ; and, as he
soq thought such a line of policy could be supported by rea-
ef as well as experience, and as ho could find uo form
~governrnent that would to better fitted for the levle
(1).! Australia, he considered it desirable that the Are auth yorit should be shared by the two bodies.
View WZA equally applicable to the structuro of the
thonienrtat Assembly.
The federal union should represent
interests of the inhabitants of those states as individuals.
.--no"'etir.) So far es the first class of interests were in
one state being as independent and sovereign
iu "ne other, they should have an equal representation
torsi-th Assembly; but, so far as the second class of in-
t was concerned, that class should have a prepon-
euloe in the number of representatives.—(Hear hear.)
h'ccould not but think that if the link of connexion
it .1.11 it was proposed to establish etas to be permanent,
osthain_st
1,,,_-°4lcl be necessary to place a constitutional barrier
encroachments of the one state against the
b, `" (Cheers)—and that that would be best secured
onoe req,eiring tne representatives of the state to sit in
oillftatrileotitithrertrhel and the renresentatives of the inhabitants
(Cheers.) Be believed it was the destiny
the e People of Australia to increase end spread over
vast territories on which they had settled, and that
;.Y., were the germ of future nations. He was firmly
weo-4dcd that the form of their colonial government
th;ts"xercise a powerful influence upon the interests,
itsi:PPiness. and the prosperity of a country now in
thetnpi,ey ; and Le honed that tl,.ey would stamp upon
tioo;°ru) of government the impress of the best institu-
Whicilond enable those colonists to moer upon the career
IvSy
n lay let fore them with all the advantages in the
e •
Cove"r'is Politieal institutions that it was in our poviMr to
them.—(Chcers.)
tooar `V. :+.l 0 LE SWORTti thought that if they were
ite,:4le r.ll diseteeeion of the details of the Bill till they
lo Committre, they were entitled to ask the Noble
to d• "as a !air opportunity be given to Hon. Members
apnisellst the measure and to propose amendments. It
pbrj:red to him that the Bill was not as clear and ex-
the'L'sa it might be made. The Bill, in laying down
-b,,')tle in which the government of the
.coloni.es was
we," conducted, referred to three Acts, portions of which
he: to continuo in force under tho new system. Now,
thr"tild recommend the Noble Lord to repeal those
hisee stetutee, and to simplify the present measure by
to vrtiPT; it in those portions sf them which he wished
tit:stain. Be
agreed with the Right Hen. Gentleman
lee,llresident of the Board of Trade, that they ought to
the ,„'e to the Colonial Legislatures the right to frame for
de machos the constitutions which they might think most
tio
for in that case they could adapt their institu-
fortis to their sense of their own wants and interests; and
ths.,4tlY error which they might commit they would have
in ,"4, selves only to blame. But he could not think that
err Bill then before them that principle could be fully
to .443' carried into effect. For hie part, he should wish
eq`,ll3'et that the governor of each colony should within a
thot4in time convene a constituent assembly elected by
_lie:ll)htliatPl° of
the colony, and then delegate to that ae
ine lY the Power to frame their own constitution, limit-
power, at the same time, to any extent that
;v.t be found necessary. The more lie considered the
tleaatl,S of the Bill the more did ho beconso convinced
tei,t; would not give permanent satisfaction to the
teett-1818. He found that a series of resolutions had
her ofa:,_°
n"-Y drawn up by Mr. Low, a distinguished mem-
that } Assembly of New South Wales, declaring
that Inaasure would be acceptable or beneficial to
It re or,.'"°,ny which did not shoulddg other things
reeep.-I'n'tion that the colonists have their go-
re.r,,:"t administered by persons responsible to their
abl)--•entatives, that the Government should be remov-
air?, bY a vote of the Colonial Legislature, and that
th(;ll`'lcithe elected representatives of the people there
irrane thatbe astshozieated no nominees of the Crown. It was
issed by Mr. resolutions had not afterwards been
Low, but he (Sir W. Molesworth)
reason to think that they conveyed the sea-
st, nts of the colonists generally upon the system
Pgovernment which they wished to see este-
ed. The Bill of the Noblo Lord, however,
tm'Odierl none of these provisions, noel he, therefore, be-
,Nl that it would not be received with satisfaction by
pe: inhabitants of New South Wales. Indeed he felt
kl.'4aaded that no measure world bo acceptable or per-
ehtly beneficial to them which did not deprive; he
fee-,:elliel-office of its present arbitrary power of intr-
Itti'g in their internal affairs. He would. give an in-
)e )ennee of the prejudicial effects cf t he existence of a
pelvr• The inhabitants of Sydney, amounting to 50,000
letit3ilte bad been anxious to remove the slaughter-house
theeeeir City to a spot at some distance; hut on inquiry
jet
had found that they could not accomplish that ob-
e‘T: until after the lapse of a year, when they should
reeiso obtained the necessary consent of the head of the
two Tug-office in this country. Now, there was surely
Istigood reason why such consent should be required.
of 10
People of this country were too much in the habit
itti°,ntit:ing on the colonists as subjects and inferiors. He
tt,„-‘,ained, on the contrary, that the colonies were in-
erit;;st Portions of the British empire, inhabited by men
feef ought to enjoy in their own locality all the rights
,ltvriri!egee which Englishmen enjoyed elsewhere.
%it% `INSTEP said that the colonists of Now South
ttai s had distinctly pronounced against the scheme of
Itie-„gic' chamber composed in part of representatives of
littesnPlo and in part of nominees of the Crown. He
kiejt„sted on a former evenine. that the growth of a
clAss in New South Wales had been. in a great
toett-ure produced by the acts of Sir G. Arthur, who, in
le4sequence of some defalcation in the Treasury, had
41 the public money in private banks. But he
hes „,eti to take that opportunity of saying that ho bad
ihte-5. to charge Sir G. Arthur with the mischief
V'ad ensued.
PattI:',IIANGLES said that he was prepared to sup-
-444,1","El second reading of the Bill, because he was per-
iled Leg that her Majesty's Ministers in introducing it
irtsii„e,.eu actuated by a very sincere desire to give free
' attee-"lens to those colonies which they believed to be
that " to receive them. He could not, however, think
eatat;t4Q Government had chosen the best mode of
411)4'414 that desire into effect. They seemed to
fellsse that the inhabitants of New South WalesWer e
nPPosed to the establishment of a double eharn-
4'eh .1311 t the fact was that the question had never
But
to the colonists, because they Lad never
4e thin that they could obtain two elective chambers
Ivititt7krY much doubted whether they would be satisfied
Oltenia.'" arrangement proposed in that Bill, whsn they
S.;,' have found that two chambers were to be given
seie;ntii Africa. The people of this country fell, in his
the Ill; into a serious error when they supposed that
the c,"herabers of the Upper House were the nominees of
lithe; r°wll; the fact being that the Duke of Norfolk and
(itle;Rcers, although they had originally derived their
rtes-, -Warn the Crown, were at present no more its nomi-
'''ettb"Lln the Members of the House of Commons itself.
41)le °lir colonies the Government officials werteremov-
-41:It the pleasure of the Crown.
Iseo.:, HUME said, he was' prepared to support the
NZ' reading of the Bill, although be could not ap-
ked.' of ell its provisions. 'He believed that the only
Aphid of inspiring confidence in any of our colonies
rdl,llle. to give them effective legislatures. The Noble
et "'id maid that he wished to cheek the democracy. But
eattnLhAtralia the inhabitants were all members of the
'10:-'qfracY and there the check of the Noble Lord would
err be misplaced. He believed that if our colonies
%,t EtIorl" treated there would be no reason to appre-
th -el -7
ey at they would attempt to separate from us, because
j;f ee:. ould continue bound to us by the connexion
;.414;rithl' by a feeling of self-interest, and by family i
tesee reeretted to find that it was proposed, that
'qe.findsts should not haie:thrt power of dealing with
nstioeft'i ht of the Church. He taw no reason why they
''.7kt b. deprived of that power; and he believed that
am?kj:ision, if it were to remain unaltered, would be-
Vitskti'ittture bone of contention and a source of much
that th4lttetion. Ho could only repeet his anxious wish
„mtn the %11, might lease as speedily as possible, and
verfo.a the Government might allow some of its un-
ctions. to be removed in Committee.
s'ANVE3 anticipa-ed thee this debate would give
4; betZi.a.faction in the coleny. from the desire exprros:led
ent'Wee—whatever might bo thu difference o
apsehlrtained—to frame a measure which shoeld be
opi-
eitttin Le te the colonists themselves. One of the main
antae efns urged against it was that it eatablislic 1 a
:rts n° government for the Australian colonies which
tl'eree, to that provided for the colonies in ge-
- ststlee antil nee which was not coincident with what was
146.11 tit et), British Constitution. There could be no
thlttee whether they took the report of the Com-
een Cree,7,,rivY Council, the opinion of the Ministers of
titled in-' of the governor of the colony—all con-
t_ eabo.yreferring two chambers to One.—(Cheers.)
Ple en
.1619 read° the edmission, and those who
rased
b'f'PPosite view might make what use they
steel of 4i:t. A distinct reason had been asked fir a
rota what had been admitted to be the best
ee• nest hish.itlaenre reply was that, wherever a representative
b °RPzi tx'sted, and you proposed t make alive
0 the forcet oe
Ividetglit to be consulted in the first instance. Good
government, therepresentative
sloes " ‘vould
wit, t!lat th_ be found in the papers laid before the
th„
e,t3e People of New South \Vales were content
nt form of government, and had formally
,`'netet e"Trlally " Wl)vrver ehaegee you `_14;,0. ti,"2__ In the first insttio." In the case of the
Ittio4
.'vfe ezisted no eiott representative con 46-
' list were they prepared, in the me of New

South Wsles, at the present moment entertaining a
strong opinion in favour of two chambers, to say at
once that the co le.ty should have two chambers
forced on them ase kat the declaration of the ialialoi-
Salts? Did this B ill prevent the colony from adopting
two chambers if they desired it ?—(Hear.) Certainly
not, and he could Bof help thinking, from his observa-
tions on this point, tt ,at the lion. and Learned Member
for Sheffield had ant t read the Bill. Of this there
could be no doubt —a ant if they now decided on having
two chambers the res alt would he to impede the progress
of the measure, for it would in that case be necessary to
refer to the colonies, and obtain a vast deal of prelimi-
nary information. it might, indeed, well be doubted
whether the materit Is fur two chambers at present
existed, and one Qt the speakers at the meeting to
which reference ha d been made prominently expressed
that doubt. For his own part, he beiieved that two
chambers might exiist there, but he had no other reason
for this opinion tha a that it was a thriving and intelli-
gent colony. If it Imre the wish of the colonists to hate
two chambers, it w at, not by the nominees of the Crown
that their wish &ild be thwarted, inasmuch as the
governor of the colotty, the First Minister of the Crown,
the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and the Com-
mittee of Privy Council, were in favour of it. With
respect to the Church, the Government did not
propose to create anything new. The New South
Wales Church Acts was iit existence, and gave general
satisfaction. No doubt there were some, here nod
there, who thought that no state provision should be
made for religion, tut, speaking generally, the existing
arrangement had bi ten a source of satisfaction in the co-
lony. With respect to Soutb Australia there was no
such provision, and none was male by this Bill. For
thee reasons he thought, notwithstanding the criecisrns
which had been passod upon it, that the Bill, as it stood,
would be found most acceptable to the colonies, and
would work well. B,at he did not speak speculatively,
for the colonial newspaper press bore testimony to the
satisfaction with w'aich it was regarded,—(Hear.)
Mr. V. SMITH observed that not a single voice had
been raised in avowr of a single chamber; and after the
speech of the Hon. II nder-Secretary, he began to doubt
what they were disco ising. The debate had been con-
fined to a single chime on which all were agreed, or,
rather, with which. all disagreed.—(llear.) As to the
experience on wiaich so much stress bad been laid,
what was it? An experience of seven years.
And where was the popular assent ? He could
see none. With respect to the fderative ques-
tion, he had not heard a word. What was the
pretext for establitskirg such a system in Australia? No
petitions had been ;ariaented in its favour, and they had
neither popular sat isfaction nor experience to appeal so
in this case. In the United States such a system etas
intelligible for the purpose of transactions with foreign
stet ?s; but how wot tid this apply to a colony ?—(Hear.)
For his own part, lee had no desire to see this country
become the dissemi nator of republican institutions all
over the world. He regretted that the questions of the
colonial military expenditure and the transportation of
convicts had not been alluded to. With regard so the
former, the colonists themselves had admitted that with
representative institutions they ought to bear their own
burdens—with self-government they ought to hare sell-
defence. With researd to the latter, when the colonies
were calling out for labour, he thought it not too much to
ask them to receive some of our reclaimed convict popu-
lation, who had no chance of living honest lives in the
mother country.
Mr. ADDERLET contrasted the conclusion arrived
at by the Committ se of Privy Council, in their report of
May, 1849, in reference to the feeling of the colony in
favour of a single Chamber, with the language of a pe-
tition contained in dee same paper, in which the peti-
tioners expressed their desire that their constitution
might be made as re srly as possible conformable to that
of the United Kingdi an. Two courses were open to the
Noble Lord the Seer etary for the Colonies—ore to give
the colonists full pow er to construct a constitution; ano
tiler to give them a good constitution, which they might
by reform Bills adept to their own wisher. But the
Noble Lord had done neither the one nor the other.
Much had been said. about not altering the constitution
which already existed, but had not the Noble Lord done
his best to alter it? The real reason, after all, was the
Noble Lord's extraordinary inclination for making con-
stitutions. The Noble Lord had introduced an anoma-
lous institution, and hoped it would succeed, merely be-
cause it favoured the principle of municipal corporations.
He considered that the restriction in the sale of waste
lands would give Gov ernment the opportunity of intro-
ducing the convict system again. Ile hoped Go-
vernment would consent to the alterations that had
been suggested, and then he was certain Government
would get the cordial support of the House and the
country.
Mr. M. MILNES did not recollect that such a large
and liberal concession had ever before passed that
House, or was ever before known in the history of any
civilized state. With respect to the apparent unity of
opinion on the subject of two legislative chambers, he
wished to know whether every Hon. Member enter-
tained precisely the same idea with respect to these two
chambers. The idea of two chambers was apparently
adopted because supposed to be something analogous to
the British Constitution; but if the question was inves-
tigated it would be found that the definition would not
hold good with reference to some of the colonies. It was
true that only one chamber was by the Bill provided in
some of the colonies, but this he conceived was a strong
proof of the independence of the measure, and of the sa-
crifice of all personal feelings and views on the subject.
In France a feeling in favour of one chamber was exhi-
bited, and this might be taken as another reason why,
situated as the Australian colonies were, two chambers
were not considered to be indispensable. if we adopted
the principles of this Bill we should give the colonies
self-government. He was satisfied, if the Bill was
adopted, it would tend to perpetuate the race and lan-
guage of England in our colonies in the same glorious
way as it had done in the United States of America.
Mr. WILD considered that justice would not be
done to British subjects located in distant colon:es, such
as Canada and Van Dieimen's Land, sinless they were
represented is that House. This was no new idea, and
it was ono that was founded on justice and expediency.
Mr. STANFORD considered it would have been more
to the credit of the Noble Lord when he introduced his
hieterical sketch of our colonies, and his exposition of
his colonial policy, had he dwelt more on the noble
sacrifices made by this country, and the enormous sums
that bad bsen spent Lin their acquisition. It had been
asserted that the present measure was to do away with
monopoly; but he contended it was under the old sys-
tem this country grow great, and it was the system which
other countries were pursuing in order to rival our
greatness. (The Hon. Member could not be distinctly
heard in the gallery, owing to the noise in the House.)
The principle of monopoly had been instituted by our
ancestors, but it had been abandoned by this country,
having been continued by Germany and the United
States of America.—(Divide, divide.) The lion. Gen-
man proceeded to quote from various documents to show
the distressed state of the colonies under a free-trade
system, and concluded by contending that the principles
of the Noble Lord had a tendency to break up our colo-
nial empire. He had listened mast attentively to the
various speeches which had been made, and he must
offer his opposition to the measure.
The Bill was then read a second time.
DISTRESSED UNIONS ADVANCES AND RE-
PAYMENT OF ADVANCES (IRELAND).

On the qulstion that the report be received,
ColoLel SII3THORP said, on the motion to confirm
the grant of 300,0001., it would he opposed by him, ac-
cording to the notice given by him, by moving that the
Bill be read a second time that day six months.
Mr. P. SCROPE did not know what efforts bad been
made to recover these rates. The House did not know
how remiss the parties whose duty it was to collect those
rates might have been, so us to make it necessary to call
upon this country fur a sum of 300.000/. Till sumo fur-
ther information was given to the House he thought the
[louse should not proceed so quickly.
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that all he
wanted was, to move for the Bill, end his Hon. Friend
could speak to the merits of the Bill when be saw
At the same time he would submit to his Hon. Friend
that, although certain unions were iu this distressed
state, and he proposed a loan not exceeding 300,000/.,
yet some of these unions would not require this as-
sistance.

Report received.
The Party Processions (Ireland) Bill went through
Committee, Mr. C. Lewis in the chair.
__

The Committee on the Parliamentary Voters (Ireland)
Bill was then postponed till Friday.
The second reading of the Electors (Ireland) Bill was
deferred till Friday.
The Committee on the Pirates' Head Money Repeal
Bill was deferred till Friday.
The Committee on Supply was also deferred till
Friday.
LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL.
Sir W. SO:AERVILLE moved for leave to bring in
a Bill to provide compensation to tenants for
improvements effected by them in certaincasea,
and to amend the law of landlord and tenant
in Ireland. He said there had been various
attempts at legislaqon upon this importlnt sub-
ject. In 1845 a Noble Lord had introduced a Bill into
the House of Peers, which had cover come down to the
Lower House. In 184 G a Bill was introduce i into the
Lower House, which had never passed a second reading.
In 1848 he (Sir W. Somerville) introduced a Bill,
which was read a second time, with the view of
refaring it to a Select Committe. In that Com-
mittee many amendments wore introduced, but, upon
being returned to the House, it was found impossible to
proceed with it that session, and it dropped without
having undergone a full and complete discussion. It had
not met with any great favour on account of the coin-
, plicated nature of the machinery by which it was pro-
posed to carry it; into effect. He proposed by the pre-
sent Bill to do away with this complicated machinery;
he had remodelled and simplified the clauses of the Bill
of 1848, and rendered theta easy of comprehension, and
ho wishei the measure to bo laid on the table, in order
that it might be carefully read and considered. He had
not altered the terra or amount of the compensation, as
in the Bill of 1848; but he had abolished the umpire,
and substituted another officer. He had not introduced
any clauses to embrace the jurisdiction of the assistant-1
barristers, because it was his intention shortly to intro-
duce
a Bill to consolidate and amend the lava relating
to the civil bill courts in Ireland. The Bill would con-
tain a clause that ejeotments or non-payment of rent
should apply to tenants from year to year; that receipts
for rent should specify dates; that after a day to be
namel no distress bo taken for rent due more than a
year before making that distress; and that the practice
he prevented of carrying off crops on Sundays, or
by night. Ho feared the Bill would not satisfy the ex-
tremes of bath parties in Ireland, but ho hoped it
would meet with tie assent of all inede,a:e men, r arti-
cularly as it permitted voluntary arean4eznenti to be
reel- lee'eeesn I a1.,:e,r.-!F. t had for its
object tli,! eucourlvmeut 05 labour, the st.curity
of capital, and the permanent benefit of the owner and
occupier of the soil.—(lTear.)

Lord CASTLEREAGH said ho was most anxious to
tee justice done to all parties on this most important
subject. His opinion on, the subject of the reduction of
rents was this: The altered circumstauces of the country
would demand a consideration of the rents under which
the tenants held; and while en the one hand he would
entirely discountenance a reduction of rent over all
property belonging to a landlord, not discriminating be-
tween the good tenant and the bad, so on the other hand
he was of opinion that it believed landlords to look into
their property and rents, and to the condition of their
industrious tenants, to see where the shoe pinched, and
give them relief. If the landlords would follow that
plan they would obtain better security for their rents
hereafter, and gain the affection of their tenants.—
(ffiar, hear.) At a sneoting held at Cumber, a gentle-
man warned the tenantry not to be satisfied with a
reduction of rent; ants he gave a history of an estate
belonging to a noble relative of his (Lord Castlereagh).
That gentleman said that the estate at Cumber had
been purchased by an ancestor of the present owner in
the first part of the last century for 30,0,101. ; that the
rent-roll was then between 3,0001. and 4,000/., bet that
it was now 24,000/. Who, he asked, hal made the dif-
ference ?—(Cries of "The tenants.") What would be
the legal interest of 30,0004 ? At 5 per cent, it would
amount to 1,500/. And then he wont On to say that the
farmers who are toiling and sweating to enrich the
landlords, are to be their slaves or banished at pleasure •
from their homesteads. This was the authority of this
Presbyterian clergyman for the fixity of tenure. " God
net only made his own people farmers, but he gave
them their farms in pervituity. He gave them fixity
of tenure, on which the success and prosperity of the
farmers depend. In asking for fixity of tenure, he
knew they had revelation on Vseir side, and he believed
God had permitted the present oppressions to show the
hollowness of the relation between landlord and tenant.
—(Laughter.) He had known in a parish not 12 ini:es
distant farmers who had been respectable men, seeing
themselves and their children reduced to beggary by no
fault of theirs, and who, in a moment of trenzy, com-
mitted suicide." He (Lori Castlereagh) thought this
statement so loose and general that ho made some in-
quiries on the subject, and the reply was, that no
such circumstances had been heard of. The best ad-
vice ho could give to the tenants was to be moderate
in their demands on their landlords, and he would
advise the landlords to consider seriously the circum-
stances of the times, and look to the welfare of their
tenants.

After afew words from Mr. M. O'Connell, Col. Dunne,
and Sir W. Somerville, leave was given, and- the Bill
was brought in accordingly, and read a first time.
On the motion of Mr. WYLD the report. of Dr. Fsrr
and Mr. Grainger to the General Board of Ilealsh on 38
tnetropolitrin workhouses, dr.ted the 26th day of March,
1819, was ordered to be laid upon the t'.ble of the House
and printed.
On the motion of Mr. EWART the following Com-
mittee on public libraries was appointed: —Mr. Ewarr,
Lord Seymour, Mr. Disrarii, Sir Harry Verney, Mr.
Charteris. Mr. Bunbury, Mr. George Alexander Hamil-
ton, Mr. Brotherion, Mr. Manes, Mr. Cornewall Lewis,
Sir John Walsh, Mr. Thicknesse, Mr. Mackinnon, Mr.
Kershaw, and Mr. Wyld.
Mr. C. LEWIS brought in a Bill to authorise the en-
closure of certain lands, in pursuance of the fifth annual
general report of the Enclosure Commissioners for
England and %Vales, and to confirm the proceedings in
the matter of the Common Wood Enclosure.
The House adjouned. at Twelve o'clock.