The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-01 00:00:00

appeared', 1,50 churches. He should be very much
ashamed if the result of that had net been to do some-
thing towards the education and improvement in the ha-
bits of the great mass of the people. Our national schools
educated 1,000,000 children, and the dissenters wore not
behindhand in their efforts, according to their means.
They had had the 10th of April quoted almost ad nauseam
by their opponents. Why should they not be allowed to
use it now in support of their views? Still he knew
that on that day ix the neighbourhood of that very
House there were hundreds of workmen who, though
they took no part in the meetings, still refused to be
sworn in or act, as they said, against their order. Now,
this was the fouling which he wished to see removed.
He wished to see English-society no longer broken up
into seetions.—(Hear, hear.) We ought to be thankful
that we had a gentry, commerce, a race of industrious
mechanics, and hard-working labourers. These be
wished to see associated together in each county and
town, and not an excluded class, endeavouring to force
from an excluding class a recognition of their rights.
The grand principle of our constitution had always been
locality, and this was engrafted in the measure of his
lion. Friend in the provision requiring a twelve months'
residence. It was owing t.) the long habits of local
self-government and obedience to municipal control
that this country had not desecrated the cause of
liberty by violence. It was these old, sturdy Saxon
elements of freedom which were always working
at the bottom of our system, as the Saxon language
still lived in the nomenclature of all our political insti-
tutions. He believed that the effect of his Honourable
Friend's measure would be to consolidate all interests
and produce a friendly feeling between the landlord and
tenant, and between the employer and the employed ;
and this feeling would be still further developed by the
ballot. Finally, did the House think that this country
was in a safe position with reference to the basis of pro-
perty in our representation. The common argument on
the other side was—you are going to give all to num-
bers and nothing to property ; and yet, bad it not, been
said that 6,000,0001. of property were represented by one
half of the House, and 78,000,0001. by the other half ?

(Hear, hear.) Talk of repreigintation based on property
—why, it was a delusion.—(Hear, hear.) Ii those in-
telligent and industrious classes, for whom -education
had done so much, would no longer be content to hold a
subordinate position, what would be the feeling of
those who were placed in a more fortunate posi-
tion, and had more time for reflection, at such a dis-
parity ?—(Hear hear.) He knew constitutions were
not matters which could be brought to mathemati-
cal formula, and this was the reason why he re-
jected the charter. But he was not bigoted
to this particular measure. It was the wish of its ad-
vocates to prevail. on the Government to take up the
subject, for it was not themselves but their principles
which they desired to bring into power. Neither Sir S.
Romilly nor Sir J. Mackintosh lived to see their im-
provements in 'the law carried into effect; but carried
into effect they were though by other hands. So the
principles of the Hon. Members for Wolverhampton
and the West Riding came into power, though they did
not. The Reform Bill, which began with minorities of
30 and 40, had become the law of the land. On these
grounds he felt confident that the principles involved
in the measures of his Hon. Friend would ultimately
prevail.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. H. DRUMMOND- could -not say that he con-

curred in the.sentiment expressed in the able speech of
his Hon. and Learned Friend, in which be said that he
bad equal admiration of talent, no matter how it was ap-

plied. He (Mr. Drummond) had also great respect for
talent, but he must except its application in many in-
stances. When his Hon. -Friend, reiterating
_an obser-
vation that had been made the other night, said that he
was sorry to see one class set against another, he,
thought he had made a remark which tended to sepa-
rate those classes more than they were. His answer wa=,
that there were a.set of professional agitators, who were
going through the country inflaming the passions of, the
country by false declarations that the landed interest
of the country were using the power they possessed for
centuries to injure trade and manufactures, and enhance
their own position. He maintained that the charge was
false, and he would maintain it there, where he would
be met if it were true.—(Hear, hear.) But now, with
reference to the motion, he was sorry that the Noble
Lord, after what be had said in years past, did not fulfil
the rumour that they had heard respecting the enlarge.
went of the franchise, and he must say that he regretted
also the Hon. Gentleman who had brought forward the
present motion had mixed up, the considerations of the
franchise with other matters, so to prevent his (Mr.
Drummond) giving his humble support to it; for he was
sorry to say, not only would the present motion be car-
ried, bat much worse motions.—(lienr, hear.) Sooner
or later, every word of the present motion would be
carried.—(Hear, hear.) They were coming to the rbsp-
ing time'of the seed they had long since sown. The
Hon. Gentleman, who brought forward the motion re-
minded the House that for 150 years the Whigs had
been teaching them that the people were the only source
of legitimate power. The Whigs had been always the
promoters of agitation until they got into power, and then
they generally turned out good Tories. It might 'then
be urged that no other political measures were -possible
in that country, seeing that their enemies denunciated
them. DWI Hon. Gentlemen forget that that party had
defended the, murder; of the , King, and the mutiny
at the Nore? And there was not an enemy of the public
peace throughout Europe that they did not defend now.
—(A laugh.) When they got into power they wreaked
their vengeance upon the party by whom they had been
kept out, and in order to do that they did not hesitate to
violate the constitution. They turned the throne into a
president's chair, and that was all Queen Victoria sat
upon now.--:(ticar, hear.) After all the concessions
that were supposed to have been made to them, the
people were as diicontented as ever. The Reform- Bill
had proved a failure. Why? Simply because the is-,
ple expected from the Reknit Bill more than any Act of
Parliament could do. If there was another Reform Bill
passed to-morrow the people would be just as discontented
as ever. They were, in his opinion, going altogether wrong.
Last year they were very angry with 'the Chartists.
They were not now so very much in love with them, ne-
vertheless they sent the head of their Reform League to
go hand in hand throughout the. country with the gen-
tlemen upon whom they now turned their backs.—(NP,
no.) What, had they not been together at Aberdeen
and other parts of the country? :And now they would
not permit that party to come betwixt the wind and
their-nobility.-(Hear.) One of their chief supporters
had told them very frankly that the King, Lords and Com-
mons was the greatest humbug that ever existed. The
Hon. Member for Manchester (menial his eyes at that as
it he were astonished, but it bad been distinctly stated
that the electoral divisions were incompatible with Lords
and Commons. It was quite clear to him that the ques-
tion before the House was not upon the carrying of the
present measure that day or to-morrow, but the real
question was as to the establishment of a, pure demo-
cracy.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. F. O'Connor.) Why,
it was not desired by one honest man. The object was
the establishment of a pure democracy, and he might re-
mind the House that last year the Hon. Member for
Manchester held up the conduct of the people of France
to them as an object worthy of their imitation. And what
was that? Six hundred thousand armed men that were
there alone preserved the public peace, and that would
be maintained no longer than while their soundest prin-
ciples crept in the dark. So long as the unarmed masses
were divided against each other, so long was it impos-
sible that their could be anything but universal carnage
and confusion. Hon. Members opposite probably did
not wish that; but what signified their wishes? If they
had not sufficient sense to see before their noses, he
could net help it. Did they believe that the Whig party
did not see it, and that their policy was to stave off any
successive step as long as they could? He believed there
was not a man of that party who would not do his best
to prevent the consequences that would result—he be-
lieved there was not one of theni that had not as great
a dislike to confusion And bloodshed as himself. He
was :only pointing out what would be the necessary
result of the present policy. They wished to estab-
lish a universal system of equality. Did not all nature
tell them that such a thing did not exist? Did they
not find that all nature and allintelligent beings ranged
themselves in order? and if they would only learn wis-
dom from the ant, they might .bainstructed by their
system of mutual dependence and their mode of govern-
ment. What they know of the celestial hierarchy
that was not order under order?, And were they not,
attempting to confound in one greet chaos not only all
thle institutions of that, but of other countries? He re-
g*tted that the Government had not taken some initi-
ative step with respect to the present question, because
he was satisfied that ultimately these measures would be
carried.— (Hear.)
'Air. ROEBUCK said the House and the country were
indebted to the Hon. Member-for Montrose for bringing
forward the present question at the present time. The
Hon. and Learned Member for Oxford had reminded the.
House that they, were now in a state of public calm,
quiet, and comparative comfort The question was,
therefore, brought before the House simply on its own
merits, unassisted by excitement out of deers, and, 'he
had hopel, unresisted by J prejudice within.—(Hear.)
The question„as
_stated by the Hon. Member for. Mont-
role, Was simply this--that they had from time to time
made alterations in the representation—they bad in-
crlased the lilmober of electors-and he proposed to in-
crase them still further. How had he been met by the
Right Hon. Gintleman ? Why' the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman said, " You are 'departing from the principles of
the constitution—you are about to make a chamber ,of
representatives so entirely representing the democratic
principle that you will overturn the whole constitution
of the country." He thought he lied dealt with the pro-
position of tqtfoit.' Member foi. Montrose very much
like a nisi pries Ilieyer.—(ATatigh.) He had not met it
fairly or in front—he had gone round about it, and
carped at it, and cavilled at it. He had said that it was
opposed to the principles of the British constitution.
Now it had been his (Mr. Roebuck's) fate to search
after that British constitution, but be had never yet
found it.—(Hear.) But he had met a case in which a
change been made in therepresentation and in the con-
stitution by the Noble Lord at his right band—(Lord J.
Russell). The objection taken.to the Noble*Lord's pro-
position was, that he was going to make the representa-
tion depend upon money—upon the possession of a 10!.
freehold. It was urged that that was a principle wholly
unknown to the British constitution, but that was not
acceded to by the Noble Lord. He proposed his mea-
sure, and itovps,carried. What did, the Hoe: Member for
Montrose now propodel Did he controvert the principles
w
of the British constitutiPli,hich he took to be that there
should be 'a body speaking in the name of the people, and
making laws for them. They had a King, Lords, and
Commons, who, according ,to the theory of the consti-
tution, were said to represent the whole of the people of
England. He would admit that they represented most
faith'f'ully .the pitssions,:the-prejudices, the ignorance, and
11. Ple idod qualitieS-Of the people of t nglancl an4,heAlki
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