The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-30 00:00:00

EVICTIONS IN GALWAY.

Mr. MACCULLAGII wishedato ask:the Right Hon.
Baronet the S. cretary for Ireland whether he had re-
ceived any information relative to certain transactions
which had occurred in Galway. He alluded to a matt -r
which had formed the subject of comments in the public
newspapers, and which he was sorry to say, was confirmed
by private letters. It was said that there had been latterly
a wholesale system of evictions carried forward in the
Martin estate by the Law Lite Assurance Compsny,
who were the mortgagees, and he wished to ask the
Right Hon Baronet whither he had received any infor-
mation on the subject, either in his capacity of Secretary
for Ireland or as poor. law commissioner.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE had received no information
whatever on the subject.
SAVINGS' BANKS.

The CHANCELLOR or the EXCHEQUER then
rose pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in
a Bill to amend the law relating to savings' banks.
He was sorry that any delay had taken place in bring-
ing on the subject before the House, having given notice
as early as the first night of the session that he would
move for leave to bring in a Bill, but illness and press
of business had prevented him doing so until
the present time.—(Hear, hear.) He would make no
apology in laying the propositions which he intended to
make before the House, because all were agreeed as to
the importance of the eubject, and few who had turned their
attention to it were unconscious of the ext•eine difficul-
ties which would beset at any attempt to make an alte-
ration in the present law as concerned these societies,
That some further legislation was necessary as to the
constitution of savings' banks, they were all equally
agreed. It appeared that it was nearly forty years ago
when societies were first formed for the purpose
of affording the poor a secure mode of investing
their savings, and of obtaining the payment of
interest upon them. From that time they had
gradually grown up into importance until they now had
as much as twenty millions invested in their hands, and
it was not surprising that these institutions should re-
quire new regulations when their operations had become
so gigantic. But there were other circumstances which
rendered it equally necessary for the Legislature to inter-
fere. Most of the savings' banks now in existence were ori-
ginated and supported by reputable and benevolent per-
sons, but they did not give that regular and constant
attendance t their affairs which was indispensably ne-
cessary to their attaining a state of efficiency. Without
attributing any blame to the trustees and patrons of those
banks, he would say that, with few exceptions, they gave no
regular attention to their duties, and the affairs of the
banks were generally left to the management of a secre-
tary, an actuary, a clerk, or some other officer over
whom sufficient vigilance was not exorcised. From re-
cent failures of those institutions it appeared that the
trustees were in the habit of signing cheques in
blank, and also that the cheques which they
exercised was, in many instances, merely of a nominal
character. The Bill which it was his intention to pro-
pose was entirely a prospective Bill ; and at a later
period of the evening he should propose that a Commit.
tee be appointed to take into consideration thelast section
which it contained. He thought it would only encumber the
Bill to extend its operations to past transactions. It
would perhaps be advisable to refer shortly to the his-
tory and progress of these societies, because people
seemed hardly aware of the nature of their constitu-
tion. Not much more than thirty years ego they were
not at all recognised by the Legislature. It was little
more than forty years, as he had already mentioned,
since they were first formed. He believed the
first society was established at Wendover, in 1799.
In 1804 a similar society was formed at Totten-
ham ; in 1808 another was formed at Bath, and
in 1810 one was established at Dumfries. -The one at
Tottenham was at toed by 6 benevolent individuals for
the savings of the poorer classes, and they agreed to
allow 5 per cent. upon the deposits. Each of these
6 persons were responsible to the extent of 1001.
They were to have another trustee for every 1001.
Now to such an extent did these voluntary societies go,
that in the year 1817, when the first legislation took
place on the subject, there had been formed by the
voluntary association of benevolent persons no less than
seventy of those societies in England, four in Wales,
and four in Ireland ; and the whole object
of that 1. gislation was to prohibit the trustees from
receiving any profits and to provide for the deposit of
the moneys of the societies in Vie public funds. There
was no security whatever previously for the deposits
except the credit of the trustees, and their honourable
dealings with the depositors. In 1817 the Government
undertook to receive the moneys deposited in the savings'
banks, and to be responsible for them, and Ito allow a
certain rate of interest thereon. In 1824 an Act was
passed to render it imperative on ti,e trustees
to transmit to the Commissioners for the Re luction cf
the National Debt the deposits to be ',Aged. from time to
time in the banks, and to be invested in the public
funds. From that time the Government became re-
sponsible for all the money transmitted to them, but

ia
f they became responsible for nothing else. A or ts
be
I rate of interest was allowed to the trustees fur
management of the bank, and the remainder °vie
to go to the depositors. (Hear, hear.) le
1828 the preceding Acts were consolidated into one. e'r.,
was then enacted that the •rulea should be properli,coo
tifi el by an officer appointed by the Government•
heir
trustees were exempted from liability, except for ';
own individual acts of neglect or fraud. In 1841 f,it
Act was passed, which exempted the trustees fro The,
liability whatever, and reduced the rate of interest. .-11,;„
whole duty, and the whole responsibility of the Goveetre
meat, consiated in this—the rules of savings' banks were
to to be transmitted to the proper officer appointed hYb'ef
Government to certify teens, and tar see that et.
were in conformit ts law. The trustees werel nPr
fectly competent to make what rules they plea'efe r-
vided they were not inconsis'ont with the S". of
was the duty of the Commissioners for the Reda:nil bo
the National Deet to receive any sums that tideless
transmitted to them by the trustees, to •Db,alc
them in the funds, and to pay them, wee
to them when properly called upon by tb':tr-
mega
tees. Annual accounts were only r quired to
witted to Parliateent by the trustees; and the Ceteile
Bier ers of the National Debt bat a check on the trustee :et
the knowledge so furnished, and they had also the P° fie
of tl.eir account with the trustees if they °aloe
With regard to all other matters the trustees of tiiks.
savings' banks had a complete control over those ba eet
The first question which had been raised by the ref cf
discussions on this subject had been as to the exte° to
the responsibility of the Government and %ere
the responsibility of the trustees. The -Vote" „bi
altogether liable for :le neglect that ra'ft
be incurred by them as individuals; and the Govertaa
were only responsible fur the safe custody of such 03°,9070.
as had been transmitted from the banks to the viol,
missioners for the Reduction of the National mos
In the y.ar 1828 the responsibility of trustees f ore
affirmed, but in 1844 the liability was removed ro
them, and it must be perfectly understood that therew
v
no responsibility. Hon. Gentlemen seemed entirei:lief
have forgotten the origin of these bodies, Oat
were voluntary associations, and not connected ; y
the Government at all. The Government were neteee
their bankers, aid responsible for the money that re
paid. Until the last year or two the theory of, tm„-ced•
sponsibility of Government had never been aelft-t for
nor had any application been made to Govern:o'llose
compensation. No instance had occurred of a' egg'
having been sustained by the failure of any sa„-S.tese
bank until the year 1824, at Carmarthen. The tl.-001
at that time were liable, but it turned sOci
that they were not able to supply the deficiency, der.
the Lord-Lieutenant of the county, he believed, 11,13 tee
took to compensate all the sufferers. The theory 49`tp
responsibility of the Government was quit
new one. Nor did he think that in his 'tee
posed measure it would be right to take lira. op
Government the charge of making good any defies opt
which might occur from the neglect of any.but its Deos
officers. He also thought that any general interfehro' es
with the appointment of officers in the savings' le
would eostroy that which he held to be a Ya"',„-es'
portion of savings' bank, namely their voluntary eoula
racier; but he proposed to appoint a treasurer, who high
generally be a local banker, and he would make it a t
tee
crime and misdemeanour for any other person bee lie
treasurer to receive and pay money. By doing 0,1:10A•
thought he should remove the greatest occasion of "se of
He proposed at the same time to repeal the clan, re'
the Act of 1844, which entirely did sway with t-hinkt
sponsibility of the trustees. They were officers of thelstbo
and although the real responsibility would rest teiwtbot
treasurer and manager, it was nothing but right the
the trustees should share in some degree iheir
responsibility so as to prevent misconduct on les
part. The first clause of the Bill specifiskow
duties of the treasurer, and made it a /131 psi
mesuour for any other officer to receive of dolt
money. The next question which the 13i11
he
with was the subject of audit. Whellobjee#
introduced his Bill relating to Ireland sem° ;
tion was taken as to the mode of audit there, i;Serl
lished, inasmuch as it could not apply wit bd:
degree of satisfaction to seaport towns. 000'
however, been partially in operation ie neer°
of the large seaports in this country, 'note
it had proved most successful, and be pr°orore;
to extend the system of audit now in and'
AO,
lion in Ireland to the savings' banks of -r4es',
reserving, to
however, power to the Treseerteoll,
send inspectors to examine the books. tbita
he dispo ed of the second clause. The
to be
clause dealt with the question of interest tee
allowed on deposits. He proposed that, the
Government should act as the bankers 0'1)00
depositor. The depositor did not care so much 1 and
interest as the security of his deposit°, rea,
it was only fair that when Government t
the risk of guaranteeing the rePaYmellabieh
deposits, without reference to the loss
might mite on the purchase and sale
loir of 'tele;
that the interest should be at a cell
At present the managers of a savings' bank re Go'
31. ss. as interest on the moneys they paid to thee, 0°
vernment, they allowing 2/.175. 6d. to their deposit 21 15e
proposed to reduce these two sums to 3/. sod 2;00 d •
In the year 1846-47 the number of depositors neerbstger
by upwards of 12,000, but the decrease was in the „ eel°
sums, the depositors under 201. having in the 55113,,,"re,1°
increased more than 12,000. He proposed, there'd' bee
0
limit the amount of deposits to 100/ lle ben the
e
pressed to reduce it still more, but he thought "-salt"'
Lea limit be could fix. When the amount d9P-ettie°
reached 1001. all interest should cease, and if the P. 7, the
chose they would invest their money for them
funds, receive the dividends, and pay them t° soar
giving them also a power of attorney it they eh°s,orolr
point another party to receive them. All thee° r e%
sums were prospective. Ho should not compel tb°oo°.
isting depositors to submit to those terms, but hetbese
sidered it would be for their advantage to accePt „Wet
In confirmation ef his views on that part of the 70,11e0.
he had received several communications from
conversant with the subject, one of which ,evioee
letter from the manager of the Croydon PI beet
Bank. This gentleman, who stated that he ha: eesr.„
for thirty years the manager, and for fourtee" tyitia.;
the treasurer of the savings bank at CroYd°rl' eel'?
I have had occasion to remark that the loofa
inducement to deposit money by those for eieg
savings banks are intended consists in lita;torel"
safe place for deposit, and that the amount 01,2"..stiotii
for the most part forms but a secondary considers tor
whereas those persons whose means are greater'o, to
who do not actually requite savings banks, use tbned Ors
suit their convenience when the funds are high' ADD the
their money out of the savings bank to invest -oaf-
funds when low, just at the Urns that the with tee
from the savings bank is attended with 100 iie oat
country. This cause operated far more extensively fri eel
bank in 1847 and 1848 in reducing our capitalitetleal:
stagnation of trade did. Twenty pounds would ;,tOll,-,
enough fur a depositor to be allowed to Putee.eocht,'",
bank in one year, and when the sum invested tie toy"
1001. there is no necessity to allow further dePrit- pt,ll
made. Our secretaries are secretaries alone; o°,l'e Ai'
vince is book-keeping; they have nothing t°, trse,s;
money, and no officer cf the bank is permtttea so l!",
act business but at the bank and in banking boer,7ets eh's-
as money is in the question; and thus toe twee)" do'
confined to the secretary, trustees, and nsauseeen°
money to the treasurer, trustees, and manager' trill
sums with which they were dealing were of 0° eeic‘t, •
amount. The gross amount of interest or dividends! oo to
by the Commissioners for the National Debt dividends
iter,
establishment of savings banks in the year 1810 wer,,
18,014,000/. up to the time the last annual accoun
yid
laid before Parliament; and the total amount
,P
depositors in the same period was 20,455,00'00e:0
left an annual loss, at the present rate of induce
42,6711. per annum. He proposed then to Ong t"id
rate cf interest from 3/. 6s. to 31. per cent., lire:thi'yiol.3.,%
amount to be paid to depositors to 2/. 155., wbse'cir Pra.,
be a very small reduction to each depositor. "-4d,
sent average rate of interest paid was 21. 180.
cent., and the proposed diminution of 3s. 4(1. Pe 41. to
would be an annual loss to a depositor of 10/ of to e'ded:
one of 201. of fel.; to one of 501, of ls. Bd.t
positor of 100/. a loss of 3s. 4d., as he had sire; jell;
which would be very small in the case of eacud esott'fe
tor, but would be a saving upon the whole, (Mai
relieve the Government from loss, while It Yi°e-rfer's;
ford the means of paying the treasurer for the Belo Inv°
ance of his duty, and thus to a certain extent relit es
savings bank from the expense of managemel3oo4l
sum up, then, what he proposed with respect t° tore we
banks: the provisions were to appoint a trees% 00
whom all deposits should be received, saso
the amount of deposit to 1001., at "1„-sid
interest should stop ; that the interest r
the Government should be 31. per cent" J.,1940
that to the depositor should be 2/, 153. oora
with respect to,friendly societies ; and with re,fseears
them, he proposed to enact that no further thor'e?ssiover
be invested by them directly with the Corarabi be be
for for the National Debt, except so much as tnig 10,1.1
ceived on account of assuranoes paid previelre t!:eg
passing of this Act. Hon. Gentlemen were 81raet,W1
friendly societies were framed fur the purpose thief eol.og
assurances to parties, and the rate at which !foc!e
give the assurance depended upon the rate orw socte,o,
they themselves were allowed. Now, D° " 001°00
could invest except in savings banks at saving ° woo
of
terest, but the older societies had given thew ead_ oed of
dependent on the rate of interest they receive 'refs
interest couree it would be unjust to them to touch tb`jetivilele
interest. He proposed, likewise, to limit re whine
of investing in the name of trustees—a prieitegd 0007,
had been grossly abused—parties having inres;te,,se°l2t,
actually their own in the name of other Pert,eieal Pite
times their children, and at others merely o°7‘ftsit 1/%0
ties, and that was done, he was sorry to sal. spu'
elr
the knowledge and advice of the trustees. 'rue rs°
le Pe i
had been carried on to a great extent, to elll%b , 01 10 05
to avail themselves of the privileges sas'ea:
accorded, and invest sums far beyond the dere,
which it was originally intended should
there 1000
sited by parties. He should enact, 0;0 os
that no person should invest as a trustee, 0 And ?t,
behalf of a person in infancy, idiotcy, 111114,4; to °tee
soundness of mind. The only other provision to of
hei would call attention was that referorotro Acgo,
granting of annuities, which, according t Id 11(4 hie
1833, under which they were
under 4/.; and in the case of the party not t' do bielfg
to continue the payments (which might be M3bee01:01:i0
stalment.), or dying previous to the annuitYrood,• .
granted, eon
available, the money paid by him retd Of g:a
sser la a,. 0,
did not propose to disturb the existing P')
log annuities ort those conditions, but be sh°LieeditiObi
power of purchasing annuities under other ere%esed. eir
and as those new annuities could not be Pa_deee Opt
payments made in instalments, he should reo bathet
amount to 11., and the mode Of working I:°ueesin ate,
the purchaser could accumulate his s "fob' eentl'Oe
savings bank until he had suffieient to bey :a thaietel
first of 11., subsequently of another pound, ~seep! Pee
might go on accumulating his savings is Letelritionl
purchasing annuities of 1/. Crew time Pat'

~__=~'

___lii