The Sun.
London, England, 1868-04-17 00:00:00

THE _IRISH ESTABLISHED CHURCH.

A large and most important meeting on the sub-
ject of Mr. Gladstone's late resolutions was held
last night in St. James's Hall, over which Earl
Russell, K.G., presided. The ball was densely
crowded, from the platform to the upper gallery,
by a dense mass of human beings, a great number
of ladies being present in the galleries. The noble
earl having presented himself on the platform, was
received in a manner that reminded one of his great
popularity at the time of the Reform Bill. The
whole assembly rose and greeted him by an ovation
that must have been very gratifying to his feelings.
The principal persons that supported his lordship
on either side of the chair were Lord Amberley,
M.P., the Hon. A. Herbert, the Hon. C. Stanley,
Sir Patrick O'Brien, M.P., Mr. J. O'Brien, M.P.,
Mr. Robertson, M.P., Sir H. Iloare, Mr. W. Har-
court, Q.C., Mr. R. Elt, Mr. Roll's, Mr. G. Potter,
Mr. West, Recorder of Manchester, Mr. Merri-
-1 man, Mr. Baxter Langle, Mr. Mason Jones, &c.

After a few minutes,
The Noble CHAIRMAN rose and said—Gentle-
men, I have the honour of appearing before this
great public meeting, believing it to be an occasion
when a national crisis of the greatest importance
was about to take place, and with the hope that the
people of England would put an end, not to a 30,
but to a 300 years' war, that had prevailed in Ire.
land on the subject of the Irish Church Establish-
ment. I trust we shall agree that we ought to
make a treaty of perpetual peace and friendship
with the people of Ireland, and that Mr. Gladstone
will be entrusted with full powers—(loud cheers)—
to consolidate and sign it. (Cheers.) Gentlemen,
in speaking on the subject of the Irish Church,
there is, I admit, a great difficulty, and that is, to
find any argument in defence of it. (Hear.) There
are many persons who think that a Church Estab-
lishment supported by the State does not promote
religion and morality, while there are others, myself
among the number, who hold a different opinion.
Those who held the opinion that a Church Estab-
lishment supported by the State did not advance
religion or morality are ready to moderate their
opinions ; and those for disestablishing it, believing
it was a burlesque to uphold a Church Establish-
ment for one-eighth of the people at the expense
of the other seven-eighths, thought a state of
things of that kind was such an injury to their case
Ithat they were quite ready to surrender it. In point
of fact, gentlemen, the difficulty is to find, as I have
already said, arguments in support of this great in-
justice. But instead of arguments we are treated
with dreadful prognostics for the future, and threat-
ened that if a connection with the State be put an
end to, not only will civil and religious liberty dis-
appear, not only will the bishops and clergy be de-
spoiled, but such an event is described as worse than
a foreign conquest of the island. (A laugh.) Well,
in the view of such a state of things, what is the
course taken by Lord Stanley ? He proposed, not
that the question of disendowment and disesta-
blishment should be set aside altogether, but
that it should be postponed for the Parliament
of next year. Well, that looks very much
as if it were the opinion of the Govern-
ment the question should in this way be decided
next year; but what would you say if a foreign
nation, possessing greater military power than
we do, should address the Government of this coun-
try, and say, " Unless you submit to the terms we
propose, which are no doubt degrading and dis-
honourable, we shall invade you ;" and of the
answer, " We can't consider it this year ; but if
you will consult us next year, we shall take the
question into our serious consideration." (Cheers
and laughter.) I cannot see how these two propo-
sitions of the Government hang well together. The
first resolution proposed by Mr. Gladstone lays
down the proposition that the Irish Church should
be disestablished, and all agree that the sooner that
takes place the better. (Loud cheers.) And now
as to the question of disendowment. I must here
say that my object is to see that equity is dealt out
to all classes ; and with this view I must say that
the people of Ireland are entitled to be placed on a
footing of equality with their fellow-subjects.
(Cheers.) It was rather a secondary question to
consider whether the present difficulty could be got
rid of by an endowment of all religions in Ireland,
or a disendowment of them all. (Cries of " Dis-
endow them all.") I do not disguise my prefer-
ences on that subject, but as the people of Eng-
land and Scotland do not wish to do so, and as
the Roman Catholics of Ireland will not accept an
endowment of any kind, I at once give up any
opinions I may have previously formed. (Cheers.)
But the two first resolutions point clearly to a dis-
endowment, and when that question has to be con-
sidered, those who say that no Church Establishment
promotes religion or morality will obtain some ad-
vantage in argument. My belief is that the Church
of England is encumbered by the Irish Establish-
ment, that it is just like telling a swimmer going to
a certain goal to tie a large lump of lead about his
neck—(a laugh)—and that the Church Establish-
ment in Ireland is, in a similar way, a lump of lead
around the usefulness of the Church of England, and
prevents her swimming. (Cheers.) The third re-
solution proposed to the House of Commons is also
very important. It proposes to ask the Crown to
place at the disposal of Parliament her Majesty's
interest in all the revenues, dignitaries, and bene-
fices of the Church Establishment in Ireland. That
was done in conformity with the advice which
I had given many years ago to William the Fourth,
and which his Majesty was graciously pleased to
accept ; but having been opposed by the late Sir
Robert Peel, by Sir James Graham, and the present
Earl of Derby, I did not succeed iu carrying my
views into effect. I trust, however, we shall be more
fortunate this time, and obtain not only a disestab-
lishment of the Irish Church, but a complete dis-
endowment. (Cheers.) I remember some years
ago having been present in this hall when the late
Prince Consort delivered an eloquent speech, iu
which he stated that William HI. was the greatest
king that ever reigned in this country. But what
was his policy ? When he attained the English
Crown a question arose as to whether the Scottish
people should be compelled to maintain the Epis-
copal Church in Scotland, and his opinion was en-
tirely opposed to it. (Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, I
was observing that King William 111., by taking
that course in respect to Scotland, was able to esta-
blish peace and open up the road to that prosperity
which has ever since prevailed in that country.
(Cheers.) It was not given to him, it was beyond
his power, having to carry on a civil war in Ireland,
to do to that country what he had done in Scotland ;
but I trust her present Most Gracious Majesty
will do that which William 111. was unable to ac-
complish ; that she will establish peace in Ireland
by yielding to the settled wish of the people of Ire-
land. (Cheers.) And now,. gentlemen, I have
only just to say to you that there seems to have
started into existence of late a theory which, as I
am an old-fashioned man and much attached to old-
fashioned constitutional principles, I much regret—
that, instead of having men in whom you can con-
fide to lead you, you should have men of no settled
convictions—(cheers)—men of no settled opinions,
but who are the more likely to follow anything that
may be started. (Cheers.) If I admire and wish
to support Mr. Gladstone, it is on quite opposite
grounds. (Hear, hear.) Although you have seen
an alteration in his opinions--and what statesman
is there that must not confess to having often
changed his opinions ?—(hear, hear)—although,
then, I say, Mr. Gladstone has changed his opin-
ions, and more especially in this matter of the Irish
Church, he thought, first, that the opinion of the
State ought to govern the Established Church. Itle
thought, secondly, upon the occasion of the May-
nooth grant, when—having resigned his office, so
that no one could d mbt the disinterested character
of his opinions—he stated that if the Roman Catho-
lic Church in Ireland desired to be endowed the de-
mand could not be resisted. (Hear, hear) lie has now

brought forward the resolutions to which I have
already referred, and he says that neither the Pro-
testants nor Roman Catholics should be endowed,
but that there should be an equal disestablishment
and disendowment for all. But this is to be said of
Mr. Gladstone, that whatever his opinions were he
has taken great care to form them ; and when he
formed them expressed them openly, and never