The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-20 00:00:00

COUNTY COURTS.

In answer to a question from Mr. JERVIS.
Sir J. GRAHAM fixed the Committee on the County
Courts Bill for Monday next.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

A messenger from the Lords brought up several Bills.
EXPENDITURE OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS.
On Sir J. GRAHAM moving the Order of the Day
for g.oing into Committee of Supply,
Mr. HUME said he had on several occasions, during
past years, submitted to the House the propriety of hav-
ing before it an account of the expenditure of the House
of Lords, which this House was called on to pay, and
which they had voted, notwithstanding considerable op-
position. What he wished to ask was this, whether he
should be able to call for any copy of a report of
the House of Lords, purporting to recommend an addi-
tional expenditure of 1,0001. If the House of Lords
thought fit to create a new office, or increase
the salary of an existing one, ho wished to know what
means this House had of possessing the grounds on
which that change took place, because he had been told
flatly that it could not be given. If an officer who had
no duty to perform was paid 50/. a year, he might be
paid very amply ; and if the House of Lords chose to
increase his salary to 1,5501. he wished to know what
means the Commons of England had of informing them-
selves of the grounds of that increase?
Lord STANLEY'S reply was inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. HUME said he had received no answer to the
question he had put.
Lord STANLEY said he apprehended it was in the
Hon. Gentleman's power to move for any information he
might require.
Mr. HUME then gave notice that he should move
that the vote be had objected to should be deferred till
Monday or Tuesday, when he would make a motion on
the subject,

Mr. Blake was a magistrate of the county for 12 years
preceding his dismissal. He once more entreated the
Government to consider that which ho had brought
under their notice, with a hope that they would direct
the necessary inquiries to be made, and if the facts were
such as he represented, that they would no longer conti-
nue to. retain these gentlemen in the Commission of the
peace.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord ELIOT did not complain of the tone or manner
of the Hon. Gentleman, who had just sat down, in
bringing forward this motion. The Hon. Gentleman
was not, however, quite correct in his statement of the
facts. There were only seven stipendiary magistrates
struck off by the present Government; and there were
yet as many stipendiary magistrates in Ireland as
there were during the last three years of the
late Government. The House should recollect that the
stipendiary magistracy were paid out of the Consoli-
dated Fund, and appointments should not be made un-
less necessity required them. With regard to Mr.
Brereton, that gentleman had been long a magistrate,
and on his appointment had received addresses from the
magistrates of petty sessions with whom he sat, of dif-
ferent religious and political opinians, and from 106 in-
habitants of the town of Nenagh, which were couched
in terms the most complimentary. One of the ad-
dresses was signed by two Peers—Lord Dunally, and.
Lord Lismore. In fact, up to the time of the occur-
rence at the Nenagh assizes, mentioned by the Hon.
Gentleman, the manner in which Mr. Brereton dis •
charged his duty was most satisfactory, as he (Lord
Eliot) was informed by men of all parties. The Irish
Government was in possession of all the facts regarding
the affair at the Nenagh assizes, and the Judge's re-
marks, and all the papers had been handed over to the
Lord Chancellor for his advice.—(Hear, hear.) Re-
garding Mr. O'Brien, it ought to be remembered that
at the time that foolish letter of his, quoted by the Hon.
Member, was written, he was only 24 years of age.
He was a gentleman of property and education.
He certainly had been at one time a most ardent
Repealer, being a member of the National Repeal As-
sociation, but seeing the manner in which that body was
soliciting foreign assistance and obtaining money from
America and other places, he began to suspect their
design, and finally resigned and denounced Mr. O'Con-
nell. He wrote a letter to Mr. Sharman Crawford,
stating to him that his (Mr. O'Brien's) firm conviction
was, that a repeal of the union was impracticable. It
was not until November, in the year 1843, that Mr.
O'Brien was recommended to the Lord Lieutenant of
Ireland as a fit person to be appointed as a stipendiary
magistrate. That recommendation was made by persons
who were well acquainted with Mr. O'Brien's integrity
and high honour, and upon that recommendation he
was appointed a stipendiary magistrate. His con-
tinuance in that office would, of course, depend en-
tirely upon his own conduct. If a precedent were
wanting of a person being appointed to office who had
severed himself from the ranks of repeal. he (Lord
Eliot) need only point to the case of Mr. Fitzsiminond,
which was a perfectly similar case to that of Mr.
O'Brien. He believed that Mr. O'Brien was a person of
high honour and character, and every way calculated for
the situation to which he had been appointed.
Captain BERNAL was willing to admit that the ex-
planation of the Noble Lord, as far as it went, was
satisfactory. Ho knew, however, that Mr. Brereton
was looked upon in Ireland as a partisan, and therefore
his appointment had been looked at with suspicion. Mr.
O'Brien's appointment, however, was still more unsatis-
factory to the people of Ireland than even that of Mr.
Brereton. The Noble Lord said that it was four years
ago since Mr. O'Brien wrote such violent letters re-
specting repeal, but the Noble Lord seemed to forget
that although Mr. O'Brien had arrived at the reature age
of twenty-eight, he still wrote violent letters. But these
letters were different to those of four years ago—they
were now on the other side of the question.—(Hear,
hear, and laughter.) When Mr. O'Connell was Lord
Mayor of Dublin, Mr. O'Brien was summoned before
that Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman because lie had
not the wherewithal to pay his servant. Mr. O'Brien
disputed the jurisdiction of the Court, as he lived in
Kerry, but notwithstanding this the Lord Mayor de-
cided against him. From that time the eyes of Mr.
O'Brien became more open with respect to the question
of repeal, and he then all at once found out that he ought
to write as much against repeal as he had before written
in its favour.—(Laughter.) NoW he (Capt. Bernal) was
ready to admit that he believed that the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government wished to do
justice to Ireland. It was, however, impossible fur him
to do so while, as was truly remarked by the Hon Mem-
ber for Bath some time ago, the present subordinates
remained in power to hamper him.—(flear, hear.) The
Right Hon. Baronet might rest assured that those subor-
dinates would ultimately sink his Government in Ire-
land.—(Hear, hear.) He (Capt. Bernal) well recollected
being at the dinner in Ballinasloe, at which Mr. O'Brien
was present, and he recollected that at dinner Mr.
O'Brien struck out the name of Lord Ebrington frOm
the list of toasts because that Noble Lord was not fa-
vourable to repeal. Ho would ask the Noble Lord
(Lord Eliot) whether he believed that Mr. O'Brien was
a person calculated to administer justice with impar-
tiality, with coolness, and with temper ?—(Hear, hear.)
If such appointments as these were made by the
Irish Government he (Captain Bernal) thought
that Government ought to be subjected to supervision
with respect to all appointments they might hereafter
make. It was generally believed in Ireland that the ap-
pointments which were made by Lord de Grey were
very much influenced by marriage connections. He
(Captain Bernal) stated this fearlessly in that House,
for he knew it to be the fact. In consequence of this,
great disappointment and dissatisfaction was felt in
Ireland. He (Captain Bernal), in conclusion, must say
that the appointment of Mr. O'Brien appeared to him,
to use the mildest term, a most unwise proceeding.
Lord ELIOT said, ha had had the statement dis-
tinctly from Mr. O'Brien himself that the name of Lord
Ebrington was not in the list of toasts at the Ballinasloe
dinner.

After a few words from Mr. F. FRENCH, the subject
dropped.
SUPPLY.
On the Order of the Day for going into Committee of
Supply being read,
Mr. HUME rose and said, he wished, before they
went into Committee, to make a few observations
with respect to the vote of 397,000/. for Colonial
purposes, which was the first on the estimates.
Some years ago, when he used to call the atten•
tion of the House to the large estimates which
were voted for colonial purposes, with a view to
their reduction, he was always told that, owing
to the slave establishment in our colonies, and owing to
the peculiar circumstances under which the colonies were
placed, it was impossible to reduce the estimates. Now,
the slave establishments in the colonies, and the peculiar
circumstances under whiCh the colonies used to be placed
were abolished, and he thought, therefore, that it
was high time that some reduction should be made in this
large estimate for colonial purposes. He did not wish at
all to injuriously restrict the public expenditure, but still
he thought that this vote was one which required inquiry.
There was no country in the world which could compete
with England in manufacturing enterprise, but then that
was completely shackled by the various prohibitory
duties which were exacted for the protection of class
interests.
Lord STANLEY could assure the House and the
Hon. Member for Montrose that the Government were
most anxious to observe the strictest economy with re-
spect to the expenses of the colonies. He was also
anxious to take the present opportunity of stating to the
House that all the grievances under which the colonies
placing
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thet o render Governor
were alleged to be labouring, would be most carefully in-
vestigated by the Government, the Secretary of State
for the Colonies at the same time reserving to himself
verannoyr
eoxfplathneatipoanrtiincuhlaisr
colony
the rightin oaf
power. It was likely that the subject of the colony of
Now Zealand would be brought before the House, when
the Government would afford every information in their
power.
Mr. AGLIONBY said that the New Zealand Com-
pany had sent out 10,000 emigrants to the colony, and
he agreed with the Hon. Member for Montrose, that this
was a subject which required a thorough and searching
parliamentary inquiry. With respect to the New Zealand
Company he was most desirous that a searching and full
inquiry into the particulars of the case should be entered
upon, because he felt sure that by no means could that
company suffer by it. It was also a colony of that im-
portance which should demand every attention, for in
one year oil to the value of no less than 175,000/. had
been shipped from the port of Wellington alone.
Lord STANLEY again said he was ready to render
any information which was available to the Government.
Mr. ROEBUCK was strongly in favour of a Parlia-
mentary Committee of Inquiry, because he thought that
when the interests of so many persons were concerned
it was right to see whether any fraud existed.
Sir R. PEEL protested that the Government were
quite as anxious as the lion. Member for Montrose to
observe the strictest economy in the expenditure upon
the colonies.
Mr. MANGLES thought that many of the local
grievances in the colonies, arose from the lavish expendi-
ture of the revenues derived from them.
Mr. WILLIAMS agreed with the Hon. Member who
had just sat down. They were required to pay 49,700/.
for magistrates for the West India colonies. On what
ground were they charged with that item ? He wished
that the labourers of this country required as few magis-
trates to administer justice as the negro population.
With respect to education, there was no branch of ex-
penditure to which he would have less objection, but
considering the condition of the negroes he thought the
item on that account, totally unnecessary. 11,0004 was
asked for the clergy of Canada, notwithstanding that the
Crown had surrendered to them a largo proportion of
its land resources. This item also was open to great
objection.
The House then went into Committee.
3,480/. was voted fur the civil establishments in the
Bahama Islands.
400/. was voted for the civil establishment of Sable
Island, Nova Scotia.
13,6801. was proposed to be granted for the civil esta-
blishments of the western coast of Africa.
On the vote that the sum of 13,500/. be granted to de-
fray the civil charges of St. Helena,
Mr. HUME objected to the charge as being excessive,
and beyond the worth of the colony.
Sir G. CLERK defended the grant. The duties of
civil officers were far more onerous and important than
Hon. Gentlemen opposite were aware of.
Sir C. NAPIER could not help referring with some
feeling of ridicule to the appointment of a harbour-
master to such a place as the port at St. Helena.
Mr. HUME concurred with the Gallant Commodore,
in thinking that it was very absurd to appoint a harbour-
master for such a port.
Mr. WILLIAMS also opposed the vote.

Mr. HUME said he must insist on the vote being
postponed until some further information was given to
the ibike upon it.

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 20, 1844,