The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-30 00:00:00

that beginning ought to be with the higher ranks. The
First Lent of the Admireity w,.uld probably say that
when e, vacancy occurred the commend W s instantly
taken ; but he aas told that heti a vacancy occurred in
the Best India and China station there vise great da'fi-
culty in filling it up; that three or four refused it; that
the officer who had gone out there was nearly seventy
years of age; and that there had been some arrangement
whereby he took the command.—[Sir F. T. BARING
was understood to deny this.] If tl,is were the case in
time of peace, what would be the condition of the ser-
vice it unhappily we were involved in war? It was in-
dispensable to have youth and vigour on the admirals'
litt; and that could only be attained by promoting by
merit, as well as by seniority, to the extent of one in
three. He considered this point the most important
which had been brought before the Select Committee,
and he could not hesitate now to support the view ho
had there advocated.
Sir F. BARING wished that his Right Hon. Friend
would show, rather by figures than by general phrases,
what he meant by enforcing economy. He did not re-
gard this as a question of economy at all. The entire
saving, even if you could reduce the number of admirals
from 150 to 100, would scarcely exceed 10,000/ ; and it
was no question with him whether this would be a real
saving to the country, while it would be a great injustice
to a noble service. Even if the Government were to
adopt the principle of appointing admirals on the ground
of merit alone, those officers would grow old, and they
did not require merit only in their admirals, but also
youth and activity. If, however, the Government were
to pass over the senior officers and select as admirals
officers low in the list and young in the service,
they might disregard merit to obtain the services of
youth, and he feared such a course would occasion
great dissatisfaction and eti:2eitatee That was not a';
new suggestion, for eselataseloaceariata the power of the
Crown had beseep, with great impar-
tiality, in favour Oilt%. young officer, but ,that step
created great dissatisfaction, and if his recollection
was correct, the House interfered so harshly that the
practice was abandoned. He begged to say, in reply to
the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, that no arrangement
of the nature he had alluded to had been made with the
gallant admiral in command on the East India station.
The Right Hon. Baronet bad also asked whether it was
true that that command had been offered to two officers
before it was accepted by the gallant admiral by whom
it was now held. It was perfectly true that the appoint-
ment had been declined by two admirals, on the ground
'that their health would not enable them to undertake
the duties, and he (Sir F. Baring) thought those gallant
officers had acted most conscientiously in declining the
offer on that ground. He was far from saying that if
the present arrangement did not work well, the whole
subject ought not to be considered, but he did not think
it would be advisaole to consider the case of the admirals
apart from that of the service generally.
Sir J. GRAHAM observed, Ithat the Right lion. Ba-
ronet called upon him to state the precise amount of
saving he proposed to effect by reducing the list of
admirals from 150 to 100. He could only say that if
the reduction of one-third in the number of admirals
would effect no material saving in the half-pay of admi-
rals it was a case of despair.—(Hear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Baronet appeared to think that it would not be
possible to add any fresh youth, vigour, and activity to
the list by means of selection. If then they could
neither reduce the expense, nor render this class of
officers more Efficient by infusing health and vigour into
it, he (Sir J. Graham) thought the case of the admirals
was desperate.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENLEY said this was a very important ques-
tion, for it appeared that while the amount expended in
pay and wages for the effective force of the navy was
1,322,0001., the cost of the non-effective service was
1,221,000/. —(Hear, hear.) He was satisfied this was a
state of things the country would not allow to be conti-
nued. For thirty-five years since the peace the system
had gone on without alteration, and they were now pay-
ing the same number of officers for doing nothing that
they were maintaining when they bad a large naval force
afloat. He was glad this question had been raised, for
he considered the non-effective force of the navy ought
to be kept within more reasonable bounds, and ho would
cordially support the amendment..
The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER wished
to say a few words on this subject, as it was ono with
regard to which he had had some Admiralty experience.
He must say he deprecated more than anything the in-
terference of the House of Commons in these matters.—
(Oh, oh, and a laugh.) He did not mean as to what
was to be done, but as to how it was to be done.—
(Laughter.) When he became Secretary to the Ad-
miralty a system of reduction was in active operation.
It was going on rapidly, and what stopped it?
What was the cause of that increase of deadweight in
the navy, of which Hon. Gentlemen now complained ?
It was the interference of the House of Commons.—
(A cry of " No," and a laugh.) Yes, it was the inter-
ference of the House with the reductions then in pro-
gress. Several motions, as the Hon. Member for Mon-
trose might remember, were made and carried with a
view to accelerate the promotions, which the House
thought were not rapid enough, and the consequence
eas a great addition to the retired list. It must not be said,
then, that the Government had been anxious to continue
the present system. He conscientiously believed that the
Government was far better able than the House of Com-
mons to form a judgment as to the mode in which re-
ductions might be effected.
Captain HARRIS observed that officers, whether
admiralsacaptains, or lieutenants, were net made in a
day, and it was necessary to keep up the half-pay system
that they might have efficient men upon the list who
would be available in case of emergency. He did not
concur in the opinion of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer that the Executive Government could conduet
changes in these matters most advantageously without
the interference of that House, for the House of Com-
mons was bound to take care that there was no extrava-
gant outlay of the public money.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... ... 72
Against it 128
Majority 56
Sir G. PECHELL made some remarks:upon the mode
in which the allowance for bringing specie from abroad
was appropriated.
Sir F. BARING said a few words in justification of
the system.
Captain BOLDER() reminded the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman that this vote included surgeons and assistant-
surgeons, with respect to whom there was a recent vote
of the House ; he believed some regulation was to be
made for their benefit.
Sir F. BARING had already explained to the Hon.
and Gallant Member the course intended to be pursued;
a memorandum had been drawn up, and the arrangement
would be carried into effect.
The vote was agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to:
490,3451. for military pensions and allowance!.
167,086/. for civil pensions and allowances.
135,7001. for freight of ships for conveyance of
troops, Sec.
21,1311. for extra pay, &c., of seamen and marines,
in lieu of spirits, and for extra pay, &c., for the Arctic
Searching Expedition.
8,480/ for extra provisions for the ships employed
in the Arctic Searching Expedition.
The next vote was 764,236/. for the Post-office packet
service.
Mr. SCOTT moved to reduce the vote by 50,0001.,
charged for the conveyance of the India mails by the
East India Corn eany's vessels.
Sir F. BARING reminded the Hon. Member that the
pay meat must be made as long as the contract with the
company subsisted.
Lord NAAS thought that after the contradictory
statements they had heard from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer and the Hon. Member for Honiton (Sir J.
W. Hogg), it was understood the vote for the Indian
mail service would be postponed till the House had had
an opportunity of judging what was the real state of the
case by the production of the correspondence between
the Government and the East India Company.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed,
that the production of the correspondence could have no
effect on a contract which had been already completed.
Whatever opinion the House might have as to any tuture
arrangement, it was evident that what had been entered
into by Government must be carried out.
Mr. HUME suggested, that in future an account
should be laid before Parliament of the several contracts,
of the number of ships, of the distances, and of the ex-
pense on one side; and of the profits, by passengers and
from other sources, on the other. No vote required a
closer scrutiny, and the opinion of competent persons out
of doors was, that many of our mail contracts were ex-
tremely extravagant. The House ought to have some
intimation when new contracts were to be made.
Mr. SCOTT agreed with the Hon. Member that the
votes far the mail service required very close observa-
tion. It was rumoured that a certain company, who
were disappointed in getting the contract for the mails
to the Brazils, were likely to obtain the contract for the
Cape mails, by way of making up for their disappoint-
ment. The vote ought not to be passed without some
explanation, though no Hon. Member connected With
Government had yet condescended to give any.
Sir F. BARING observed that the statements to
which the Hon. Member referred were, like many others
brought against the Admiralty, quite without foundation.
There was no truth in them; and it could not be ex-
pected that the time of the House was to be taken up in
noticing every story that might be rumoured abroad.
The Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) could have every infor-
mation he desired as to the mail contracts.
Sir J. GRAHAM inquired what arrangements had
been made for the conveyance of the mails between
Holyhead and Dublin ? It had been strongly recom-
mended by the Committee that the same company who
had carried the mails between Liverpool and Dublin
should become the lessees of the establishment, which
had cost the country a very considerable sum; and ho
Observed that the expenses had increased since 1849.
Sir F. BARING was understood to reply that ar-
rangements bad been made for carrying the mails by
contract, which would be carried into effect as soon as
.possible. There were charges against the Admiralty
on this point also, but they referred not to the Admiralty
having done badly to the public, but to their having
taken the lowest contract, which was said to be so low
that it could not be worked.
In reply to a question from Lord NAAS,
Sir F. BARING stated that the tenders for the mail
contracts to the Cape would be returnable on the 13th of
August; and in reply to Mr. Scott, said that the ser-
vice would be taken by screw-steamers.
In reply to Mr. T. EGERTON,
The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER stated
that the Government intended to make the inner har-
bour at Helybead at the public expenee It %Nebula be,.
he considered, rather hard, under all the circumstances,
in riixgb,u,
unsli
vy e
advantages
to call on the railway company to conitibute 200,0001.,
a
agreed
upon,
wbhuite h they
Pero w (cmoindtibnegednetproinveidhaot
c t of
any
rji
Lord
MANNERS said he regretted to be obliged
by the conduct of her Majesty's Government to move