The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-06 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY. EVENING, MARCH 6,
_1857.

about a resolution of the member forathe West Riding. possible for me to/do so. The question is an urgent one.
I know a resolution which was once thegescluhien of I have a motiotnwhich I intended to make in committee
my hen. friend, but has now beconieVretieselemn jildg- of ways and tiieans; and lam bound to say that nothing
has been i;id byeny noble friend which would lead me to
meat of this house. (Loud cheers.) In'the course of a
lone debate different views and different_ principles and think that there will be any cause for this house, during
the limited term Ofits existence, to relax its vigilance in
different conclusions were strongly adopted and urged
, regard to the taxation and expenditure of the country.
upon the two sides of the question ; but no man went
further, and no man went so far in vindicating the .
' (Cheers.) Upon that principle it is my intention to act;
though of course the application of that principle must
wretched policy of which we have read some of the re- i
depend upon what may be said by my noble friend ; but
suits in the journals of te-day—no man went --so far in
I vindicating that miserable policy as the noble viscount. concur in hoping that every practical facility will be
(Hear.) I wont go into the details of the debate, but afforded for the despatch of business. (Hear.)
when my right hon. friend the Secretary of State accuses Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that those gentlemen who
my hon. friend near me of unfairness in stating that we had met by accident in the lobby the other night would
%ere making war in order to secure the entry for Sir not be likely to meet there again if any vote could be
John Bowring into Canton, I will ask, if we are not
making war for that object, for what are we making taken on the question before the house. The right hon.
war ? (Cheers.) It is upon record that the affair of the gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) had been attempting to
Arrow is settled—for the right hon, gentleman cannot mystify the boasts upon this question. He stated that
destroy the effect of the passage in which Consul
the resolution agreed to on Tuesday was not the resolu-
tion of Mr. Cobden, but was the solemn judgment of
}nukes makes thathlnnouncement ; and what then is the
object for •
which we are making war, it it is not the entry the house. Well, from that judgment the noble lord
of J. Bowring into Canton ? We are told that th
House of Commons is to be dissolved, and lam not in was going to appeal to the country. (Hear.) The right
the least dissatisfied with that announcement. Sir, it hon. gentleman said, "Look at the division list." But
will remain on record that the house was dismissed be- what did he say it contained I He only mentioned the
cause it struck a deadly blow at a great iniquity. (Loud noble lord the member for the Cit of London. Was
cheers.) But, as the house is to be dissolved, as several y
weeks are to elapse before the dissolution takes place, there, then, to be no appeal from the decision of that
as several weeks more must pass without a Parliament
noble lord ? (Laughter.) They were not to call it a
existing in this country, and as some time must elapse "combination ;', but there appeared to have been some-
ev after the new Palliaent assemblies before it can thing very like a union of parties. (Hear, hear.) It was,
given m a
definite judgment upon this matter—the question
for us to ask is as clear as the day, although two Cabn at all events, a very remarkable circumstance, that a
motion very similar to that of the hon. member was pro-
' net Ministers have proved perfectly unable to compre- nosed in another place by the noble earl the leader of
hend it—(a laugh)—upon what policy and what prin. the Censervative party, and a warm interest was taken
cipa
1 e are your affairs in China to ba carried on during by gentlemen in this house in the success of that motion.
the interval of three mouths which are before us ? (Loud (Rear, hear.) The noble viscount naturally thought that
cheers.) That, I think, is a question to which this a motion introduced by Lord Derby, and supported by
house has the right to require an answer. For what is gentlemen who were generally known in the country as
our position ? Hostilities have been commenced in Can-
ton by the local representatives of the British Govern- the peace-at-any-price party, and by his former col-
leagues below the gangway, looked something like a
went. Those hostilities have been adopted, aggro-
(Hear, hear.) The right hot). gentleman
printed, made their own, vindicated in this house and in said, "Look at the division list !" Well, the noble vis-
e tmbioation.
he other Image of Parliament by the advisers of the count was perfectly justified by that list in appealing to
Crown. Those hostilities, too, are now going forward, the country. (Cheers.) On which side did those who re-
It was the duty of those advisers to have at once come present large constituencies vote? Of fifteen metropo-
down of their own accord, and to have asked the judgs Titan members—(laughter)—twelve voted with the Go-
that the expenses of the war must fall upon the people
of England ; and who i hon. gentleman the present member for the West Riding
is hon. that is authorised to fix upon
—(laughter) —moved the resolution ; but his colleague
the people of England the expense of carrying on a war?
voted against him. (Hear, hear.) They laughed at the
Is it the noble viscount ? (Cheers.) I entreat this house
metropolis—let them laugh at Liverpool and Birming-
not to be beguiled into forgetfulness of its most essential ham. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman the metn-
function, for it is our right and our right alone, to vote ber for Bucks and the member for the University were
the supplies by which the hostilities in China are to be
not likely to meet again in the lobby ; for the one said
carried On. The hostilities have been condemned both the noble viscount had dealt frankly and honestly with
as to their principle and their object ; yet her Majesty's the house ; and the other said he had voted disengenu-
Government come down to the house ; they call its so- ously. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) said
leinn decision a resolution of the member for the West he must have an answer to the question of the hon. gen-
Riding ; arid they distinctly intimate that the war is tleman (Mr Cobden), whether the future policy of the
to be carried on in China just as it would have been if Government with regard to China was to be changed.
our vote had never been come to. (Cheers.) Most anxi-
ous as I am, in common with the right hon. gentleman The noble lord had told them it was not. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord was going to appeal to the country on
the member for Buckinghamshire, to afford every just that issue, and the verdict would be in his favour ; be-
and reasonable facility for forwarding public business, I cause the country thought be had maintained the na-
frankly own lam not prepared to abdicate an essential tional honour, and had done right in determining not to
duty of the House of Commons. The House of Commons permit treaties to be evaded with impunity. (Cheers.)
has been wronged, and its rights and privileges have been
depreciated by her Majesty's Government. They have The noble lord was going to ask the public whether they
approved of his liberal foreign policy. (Oh, oh.) It was a
I commenced a war in Persia, and they have adopted hos- liberal policy ; and the public would ask themselves
telities already begun in China, without the authority of where, if Lord Aberdeen's Government had remained in
Parliament. Sir, it is not the duty of Parliament to power, we should have been nowt We should have
allow these things, and then to have a bill rendered them, had a peace very different from ,that which the noble
and be toll that that is the charge. If that is what the viscount had secured for us. The noble lord (Lord J.
house is
(Cheers.)te willing to submit to it may as well close its doors. Russell) was the British lion when he stood at the table;
we vote It is our
ies duty as well as our privilege, at the but he was a spaniel at Vienna. (Laughter.) The house
suppl—before hostilities are waged, and would recollect what the right hon. gentleman the mem-
not afterwards—to be the judges of the purpose to which ber for the University had said about the Russian war.
those supplies are to be appropriated. (Cheers.) It is vain He said it was a wicked for the noble lord—l defy him to escape from the principle Mr. GLA.DSTONE—I beg pardon. (Order.) I war—
whichbe-
the constitution of England has so well laid down, lieve lam within the order of the house in contradicting
the right, namely, of Parliament, not only to vote supplies,
and I have often said just the reverse. (Hear.) the hon gentleman. I never said a syllable of the kind ;
but to judge of the purpose for which those supplies are
demanded. Sir, I hope that at least we shall obtain a
Mr. DUNCOMBE was not ng anything the right
clear answer—or indeed some answer, for as yet we have hon. gentleman had said that fightnt ; but the right hon.
had absolutely none—from her Majesty's Government gentleman had declared that the war ought not to
upon this question. My noble friend said that he would have been entered upon—(no, no)--and that the Empe-
rot move the adjournment of the house, in order that hon.
of Russia
gentlemen might have an opportunity of commenting penses of the war. (011:! o ought to have been reimbursed for the ex-
h !and laughter.)
upon the statement he was about to make. But instead Mr. GLADSTONE—I rise to protest against that
of making a statement upon which hon. gentlemen could
statement. (Order, order.) Well, If lam not to be per-
comment, lie has withheld the whole pith and marrow of mitted the usual privilege of members I will sit down.
his promised statement. He has told us nothing, except Mr. DUNCOMBE had certainly understood the right
that we are goieg to be sent about our business ; and hon. gentleman to say so—it was during the discussion
the only thing left to hon. members is to get up and after the return of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) from
ask questions, by which they lose their right of making Vienna. No doubt the right hon. gentleman had ap-
any comments upon the statement of the noble lord proved of the war; and his subsequent disapproval of it
which he may choose to make in reply. But, sir, while I shall listen with attention to the statement which I was what he (Mr. Duncombe) could never understand.
suppose my noble friend will presently ma But the right hon, gentleman did disapprove of the way
masse upon this in which it was carried on, (Hear, hear.) Then there
vital and essentialsubject, I hope it will be understood that
was the right hon. gentleman the member for Wiltshire.
there is no pledge given—that there is no understanding
He (nir. Duncombe) supposed he was wrong again—
whatever--which in any degree fetters the free action (laughter) —but he understood that right hon. gentleman
and judgment of this house, or which implies that we are to concur in condemning the war.
about to play a mere Ministerial part in regard to the Mr. S. HERBERT —I never said any such thing.
taxation of the country, or are going to place an office (Laughter.)
which is esetecnetly ours in the hands of the executive Mr. DUNCOMBE--The right hon. gentleman during
advisers of the Crown. Sir, the noble viscount has re- the discussion after the noble lord's return from -Vienna
ferred again to-day to the subject of combinations. He said we ought to have been content with two of the four waled that he was beaten by a combination of parties, out
points.
of which a new Government might perhaps be formed.
Now,Mr. S lIERBERT—No, no. (Laughter.)
I apprehend that many questions might be raised
Mr. DUNCOMBE—Do you mean to say you didn't?
upon the meaning of the term "combination ;" but this
(Loud laughter.) Well, then, it was three points. (A.
I will say, Ido not think there ever Was an occasion upon
laugh.) Then there was the right hon. baronet the mem-
which it was less to the interest of a Geverranent which
ber for Carlisle. (Laughter, and cries of " Question.')
found itself in a minority to ex twine cl rely the con- They said the Government had no poling; but what was
tents of the division lists. (Loud cheers.) In considering
the contents of t the right hon. gentleman's policy I He said, "Don'tthose lists I put entirely out of vie se mY drive Russia to the wall." Did not he say that ? Well,
right hon. friends who sit near me. I admit with regard but what did we go to war for but to drive Russia to the
to them, and with regard to myself, that our isolated po-
siti wall ? (Hear.) At last we did so, and we got a peace
if we are accused of enteringinto, e
unjust we must bear et different from that with which the right hon, gentlemen
would have been satisfied. (Cheers.) The noble vis-
patiently. But, sir, putting those in whom I am most
count's foreign policy, then, would meet with the sup-
interested, and putting my own character out of the
of
question, I must ask, when it ever happened before that port
tic pot the country. (Hear.) With regard to his domes-
cy—(laughter)—the noble viscount must take a
a case arose so strong as to compel this house to check the more decided course. (Laughter and cheers.) The noble
mad career of the Government in a war ut the extre-
lord had sufficient diplomacy, if they liked to call it so,
,pity of the earth ? Over and over again we have seen
this not to see the necessity of that. The noble lord had
house challenged to condemn our foreign polity ;
never said he was against all reform, but on the contrary
but never on any single occasion, within my recollection,
he was a party to a very good bill, which was introduced
has it been induced to interfere. (Cheers.) It has always by the noble lord the member for the City of London.
felt too strongly its weakness and its want of informs- Would the hon. gentlemen opposite
give them a bottee?
tien on such matters ; and the presumption, therefore, ie,
(Rear, hear.) If he would only continue that course,
that the usage and fixed rule of the house has not been
and proclaim to the country that he would maintain
altered without reason, but that a stern necessity has
the honour of our national flag—that he would not
compelled it to interpose and rescue our dearest interest?, allow treaties to be evaded with impunity—he might
and dearer than all interests, the fame and honour of the
defy that puny jealousy by which he was surrounded
empire from the hands of men who are unfit to guard here (cheers) and set at nought the misrepre-
them? But what are the facts as regards thiseupposed corn- sentation to which he was exposed elsewhere, because
bination ? Firstly, the majority comprised that great he would receive the support of a very vast majority of
party now in opposition, which at all times muste either that large community whoseinterests were committed to
he the first or second power in England. In the next his care and who would not allow those interests to be
sacrificed to either unprincipled cabals or mere accidental
place it comprised the name of my noble friend the mom- i
her for the city of London. (Cheers.) And who is my
noble friend the member for the city of London ? (Hear.) meetings in lobbies. (Cheers,)
Ido not speak of him as agreeing with him upon every Sir J. GRAHAM--I had thought that the objects of
political question, but I speak of him as history will re- the present debate had been sufficiently wide and desul-
gard him henceforth, and as the Ecglish people regard tory without introducing into it the topic which the last
him now. (Cheers.) Is he not the man who has led speaker has thought fit to raise—the commencement
the liberal party in this oountry during a period of more
than 20 most eventful years—the man under whose and the conduct of the Russian war. Unintentionally,
guidance that liberal party has achieved the greatest no doubt, he has so much misrepresented what fell from
triumphs it has ever won ? (Cheers ) With him was former speakers, that I cannot allow this debate to close
combined the ablest and most distinguished man among without offering a few words in explanation on behalf of
the popular leaders of England (Mr, Cobden). There myself and two right hon. friends near me. They and
was also an hon, and learned gentleman (Ur. Roebuck),
who was so far from being a political enemy of the noble myself were colleagues of the noble lord (Palmerston) and
other gentlemen on the Treasury bench at the time of
1 ird at the head of her Majesty's Government, that in
1850, when he thought that upon the whole the foreign
the declaration of war. We believed it to be just and ne-
policy of the noble lord was satisfactory, he himself came cessary--we so declared it—at the commencement and
forward, and, refusing to accept the decision of the during the progress, and from that declaration and that
House of Lords, moved a resolution which led to what opinion we have never swerved. Together with the no
le
the noble lard justly regards as one of the most signal of lord, when we were his colleagues for a short time after
his political triumphs. (Cheers.) I think, then, it is a the fall of the Aberdeen Administration, we were!partiee
little too much for members of the Government now to to sending the noble lord(Russell) to Vienna, to negotiate
challenge inquiry into the constitution of the majority peace, and so far from driving Russia to the wall, which
of Tuesday last. (Loud cheers.) Tue noble viscount, I adroit I declared to be impolitic, we were parties to
on a former occasion, spoke net only of a combination, theinstructions given to that noble lord with reference
but of a " secret treaty" for the acquisition of office, to the negotiations at Vienna. I and my two right hon.
My honourable friend the member for the West friends still retain the opinion that peace with Russia
Riding spoke of the noble viscount in terms which, I might have been honourably and advantageously con-
think, did him honour, with respect to the noble lord's eluded in conformity with those instruetions, and in co-
tte atm nt of his political opponents. (Hear.) I adopt incidence with the opinion of the noble lord who at-
all my hon. friend said ; and I gladly admit that the tempted to negotiate the peace, and with that of the
good humour of the noble viscount is such that it duo noble viscount, who was not only a party to those in-
arms resentment, even when he utters what in the mouth structiens, but was at the head of the Government when
of any other man would sound like reproaches. (Hear.) they
.were framed. And, if we are to try these negotia-
lam sure that the noble lord only used these " combi- times at Vienna, or the conclusion of a peace by the guess
nations" and " secret treaties" as a weapon of debate. tion—was Russia driven to the wall ? it must be re-
My own case is this. Upon the first night of the session
I, like the rest of the house, heard the right hon, gen, membered that the conclusion of peace left Russia with
- Sebastopo still in p and h power was
tleman the member for Buckinghamshire make an an- somewhatl her
broken in theossession Black' Sea,if
it iser by no means
neuucement for which we were not at all prepared—that impaired in the Baltic (Hear, hear.) Upon the question
ie to say, an announcement that he intended to insist before the house, way I presume very shortly to express
upon the application of certain principles to the reg pi
ua- my onion 1 The noble ord (Russell) has rered to
ton of the public taxation, Upon the basis of
that penal dissolutions of parlial ment. It cannot fora moment
public declarations heard by the house and the Govern- be doubted that the threatened dissolution is of a penal
ineut at the same time that it was heard by us, we sup- character. A dissolution of that description was resisted
ported the resolution of the right hon. gentleman. with by Mr. Fox ; it was resisted to the last extremity with
which our principles were thoroughly in harmon. respect tolhe passing of the Mutiny Bill in 1784, andwith
(Cheers.) That is the history of our "combination" all respect for that great constitutional authority, I do
with tie right hon. gentleman opposite. In the same not think that example is a precedent which ought to
manner we heard the hon. gentleman the member for tike be followed. (Hear, hear.) That resistance was pushed
West Rating give notice of a motion for which we were to the last extremity ; but the patriotism of Mr.
equally unprepared, and in which we also thoroughly Fox and those who adhered to him, then constituting a
concurred. In consequence of that concurrence we gave majority of this house, seeing inevitable confusion and
the best support we could in public debate to my hon,_ mischief to the state as the result of persevering in this
friend's motion ; and I should like tog know whether we measure, they gave way, and allowed the Mutiny Act to
shim' I not have been guilty of the reatest breach of pass. This gave to their opponent, Mr. Pitt, an im-
peOlic duty in both cases, if, with our strong convictions mense advantage; their protracted resistance placed
as to what the interests of the country requ:red, we had him in power, which he retained for years ; and the
for a moment thought of pursuing another course ? party of which Mr. Fox was the distinguished leader
(Cheers.) These are the "combinations" for which we are responsible, and these alone. Hear.
lost much of the power and pre-eminence which until
() Our opinions then they had enjoyed. I think, therefore, both on con-
are before the country, and whatever may be said against stitutional grounds, and with reference to example, that
te, it will at least be admitted that we have never any such opposition to the passing of the Mutiny Bill
shrunkfinance,
from stating those opinions, Our views upon ought carefully to be avoided. And therefore I entirely
so clear'
taxation, and public expenditure have been concur in the course proposed by the noble lord (Rue-
them, arlzh saett forth that there can be no doubt upon sell), that every facility should be given for passing the
vinheenetdhosneyviheewrs
jsiaarieeentyo,ts iGnehvaerrmnmoneyntwithfutihlye Mutinyy Billßili
ifeorneacneyssapreirlyiodbalseesds,twhaituh
admit, but I believe areyfeeraern.
ceßbuetththe
with the interestseve them to be strongly in harmony the marines and the army, upon the number of men to
of th .
abide by them whate e country ; and we mean to be voted by this house. With reference to the navy es-
of public affairs, (Cheererraay happen in the vicissitudes timates, as to the force proposed, I should entertain not
to state this ; and I now Pe) It is due to the house for us the least objection to vote the Mutiny Bill, not for a
Norfolk (Mr. Bentino, leave it to the boo. member for portion of the year, but for the whole. With reference
responds with all that /'4 say whether it eH 1 s
his lively and note Y oor to the army, I certainly entertain the opinion that the
lantana im i •
has been pleased to suggest ? (Lan' - - ag natuln force is larger than can be required, considering the state
ghter and
am bound to add, before sitting down, oheers.) lof profound peace which now happily exists in Europe,
that • h
to finance and public expenditure lam leftweintti regard and with the exception of the war in Persia--if it be
doubt, by what I suppose in courteis
Y must be calleeltl'eue ; still an exception—and of the China war, the sub-
statement of the noble viscount, He said lse to i jeot of the recent debate. But, confining our view tor
take certain taxes for the year, and that he intended to •
Europe, and to the peace which prevails in the western
take the estimates and the Mutiny Bill for a part of the world, I think that the force proposed is larger than the,
year.
I should be glad to give the noble viscount the best heerceensesity requires.p If we are to take that force with re rata and China, I should' demur to being
information in my power as to the course I may think "concluded by any such necessity to vote so large a force.
it right to pursue •; but my noble friend has made it im, tatill it must be remembered that the force stated is the

maximum. The Mutiny Bill for the army must be based
upon some definite number, and considering that the
force proposed is the maximum, I should, for a time li-
mited, be willing to give my consent to that number,
always leaving it perfectly open to the new Parliament
to consider the number of men. There is another point
to which I must allude, that of taxation ; and when the
noble lord speaks in reply, I hope he will give us some
clear notion of his policy on that question. I take it we
are all agreed that no advantage should be taken of the
technical ground on which the exaction of the 16d. in-
come tax for the year 18578, might be insisted on. It
must be observed that there are two different items corn-
prised under the definition of the war income tax—one
an addition oF9d., made shortly after the commencement
of the war, and a second item of 2d., now also part eking
of a war charalter, making in all ld., which was added
during the war. If the law as it now exists should not
be maintained, the principle that ought to come into ope-
ration on the sth of April next is, that sd. in the pound
only should be levied. A great question will arise before
Parliament is dissolved—and it is impossible for us to pre-
vent it—what shall be the amount of income tax for the
ensuing year ? That question must be considered with
reference to the expenditure of the State and the policy
of the Government ; and it cannot be considered apart
from the question of the Persian and the Chinese wars.
There is another question hardly less important upon
which a decision also must become to. There is 4,500,0001.
of arrear of the war income tax to be levied between
the sth of April and the 6th of October ; and that sum, by
the past decision of Parliament, has been appropriated to
the extinction of a particular portion of debt, six mil-
lions of Exchequer bonds. It is sought by the Govern-
ment to apply that 4,500,0001. to the expenses of the
current year. That will be a departure from the policy
that has been affirmed by this house in the most delibe-
rate manner. These are questions that cannot be post-
poned and must be decided. So also with respect to
the tea duties, which stand for discussion to-morrow
night. (Hear, bear.) Were the law allowed to take
its course, that duty would be ls. 3d. per lb. from sth
April next. A notice stands for to-morrow night for
the Government to propose a considerable addition to
that duty. It will be for the house to consider whether,
being about to meet our constituents, we shall impose
upon two articles of first necessity, next to bread, a
heavy additional tax, partaking of the nature of a war
tax. (Hear, hear.) I admit that the duty on spirits is
a duty which ought to be carried to the utmost extent
consistent with security to the revenue ; but there is a
war duty of 100,0001. a year, which it is sought to ren-
der permanent. Ido not object to that ; but there are
questions of finance which must be dealt with, and dealt
with immediately. This being s, and as much discussion
must ensue in the present Parliament with reference to
these important matters, I think some explicit informa-
tion from the noble lord as to the course he intends to
pursue with reference to taxation would be not only for
the convenience of the house, but that it is just to the
community. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON said it was clear that the Go-
vernment paid no deference to the vote of that house.
(Hear, hear.) It was most desirable that they should
know what were the intentions of the Government as to
the Chinese war—(bear)—more especially after the state-
ment of Mr. Duncombe that the Government did not
intend to alter their Chinese policy in any degree, or
make any change in the hands to which the conduct of
our affairs there was committed. (Hear, hear.) He
had fully expected that the noble lord would announce
his intention of appealing to the country, but he had
expected that that announcement would have been
accompanied by a declaration that the conduct of our
affairs in China was no longer to be left in those unsafe
and incompetent hands. (Hear, hear.) He inferred,
from the silence of the noble lord and the evasive
speeches of his two colleagues, that the Government had
not yet made up their minds on the subject. Before the
house was called on to vote supplies, with a view to
facilitate the dissolution, he hoped the Government
would state what policy they meant to adopt on this
question. (Hear, hear.) It was now denied by Sir G.
Grey that the hostilities in China arose from a desire to
obtain by force of arms the right of entry into Canton.
What, then, were we carrying on the war for ? What
was its real object ? (Hear, hear.) He had heard with
surprise the statement that any danger to British life or
property there would be traceable to the vote of Tuesday
night. He appealed to the journals of the day to show
whether the deplorable course that had been pursued by
our officials in China had not been already attended
with such danger to British life and interests, that it
was scarcely possible for it to be aggravated by any
effect of the late vote. After that vote, the simple de-
claration of the noble lord that steps had been taken for
the protection of life and property there was not enough.
He was willing to afford every facility to the Govern-
ment in transacting business essential to be done before
the dissolution, so far as that was consistent with the
interests of our fellow-countrymen; but they had a
right to know from the noble lord whether the conduct
of affairs in China was or was not to be left in the same
unsafe and incompetent hands. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. J. FOX said that imputations having been
thrown out by the noble lord at the head of the Govern-
meat and the hon. member for Finsbury as to the motives
of those who had voted in the majority the other night,
he felt he owed it to himself and his independent friends
to repel anything like party spirit upon the occasion re-
ferred to. He thought it was one of the most unjust im-
putations that .could be made. (Hear, hear.) Nothing
could be more alien from those feelings and sentiments
which really induced them to give their honest votes on
Tuesday night. He confessed he had great difficulties in
making up his mind 'to vote for the motion. He certainly
bed no wish to do anything that would assist in the resto-
ration of the Derby Government, whether by themselves
or in conjunction with the members of any other party.
Although the noble lord had disappointed his expectations
in many respects—although he thought that the policy of
the noble lord tended to lower the flag of England, he
was not disposed to vote for the opposite party. Although
they were called the peace-at-any-price party, they had
made many sacrifices during the late war, in order to
strengthen the hands of the Government, and to support
the honour and the dignity of the country. With regard
to Sir John Bowring, he (Hr. Fox) had had a long friend-
shipfor him; he admired him for the versatilityof his talents,
his upright principles, pure integrity, and high-minded
patriotism. Nevertheless he could not blind his eyes to the
act to which ho was a party in Canton, and which was so
opposed to the honour and the interests of the country.
He (Mr. F.) believed that Sir John Bowring was driven
from the carrying out of his own natural good intentions
by those pernicious influences with which he was sur-
rounded. In the majority of Tuesday night there wore
the representatives of all the high principles held in that
house. Every shade of opinion was there; and it was
therefore evident that nothing but the force of truth and
honest conviction could have brought together such a body.
(Hear, hear.) There was
as
Cnohihnoa. honour in
only hon
assuchawaorur h
they
were now carrying on
y
could get from it was to stop it practically at once.
Sir F. BARING said he had heard from all sides, with
much pleasure, satisfaction expressed hi regard to the in-
tentions of the Government to appeal to the country, and
defeat
o e Government.the
Government I n
he was sure that no attempt would be made to throw any
the way
with o f th f
they always heard the same cry raised of a conspiracy of
parties. He could only say that he never gave a vote with
more personal pain,
suunenhe cceassseasr yasofhpaotsiotfi
norenreo
a clearer conscience ;
and if the time were to come again, and if it was the last
vote he could over give, he would give that vote with the
most perfect sincerity. (Hear.) He would venture to
ask the noble lord, as they were to go to the country upon
a question as to whether the policy of ber Majesty's Go-
vernment, or rather that of Sir John Bowring, was to have
the approval of the people of this kingdom—he would ask
the noble lord, under such circumstances, to inform the
house whether Si- John Bowring was to continue in his
present place? (Hear, hear.) He did not wish to say
anything harsh of that functionary; but the feeling was
strongly impressed ex his mind that so long as the carry-
ing out of the instructions of the Government were en-
trusted to his hands, all the conciliatory efforts of the
Government would bs in vain. Although they hal
heard many gentlemen defend the proceedings in a legal
point of view, except on the Treasury bench, and
hardly even there, was there a man who ventured
to support the course taken by Sir John Bowring ?
(Hear, hear.) He would ask, then, the Government to
declare whether, in the face of such facts, they intend-ad
to retain Sir J. Bowring in his present pusition ? He did
not think that the fortunes of this country, the fate of
thousands, and the questions of war and peace, should any
longer be entrusted to the care of Sir J. Bowring.
Mr. BENTINCK said—l will not detain the house for
more than a moment. The right hon. gentleman opposite,
the member for the University of Oxford, after indulging
a great deal on the subject of combination, did me the ho-
nour to refer to some remarks I had made, which he as-
cribed to what he was pleased to call my lively imagina-
tion. Sir, I will only say that I shall receive with due
respect any statement of the right hon. gentleman as to
the origin and character of party combinations, relying
upon his experience in such matters. (Hear, hear.) I
only regret that the right hon. gentleman did not go a step
further and tell us whether, at this moment, he really
wished to carry this combination to a more substantial
conclusion. (Laughter.) I have only one word more to
say. If it be my good fortune to meet the right hon.
gentleman again within the walls of this house at a future
period—l say it without meaning, him any disrespect or
discourtesy—I hope we shall meet, as we do now, on op.
posite sides. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) If that should
be my fortune, it is possible I shall again have to remind
him of the remarks he has made to-night Upon the subject
of political combinations. (Cheers.)
Lord PA LSIERSTON—Sir, with regard to the desire
expressed by the right hon. baronet the member for Car-
lisle, that I should enter into an explanation upon subjects
connected with taxation, and with the estimates and mat-
ters of finance, I have only to say that I do not think that
the present is an appropriate one for going into such a
question. My right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer will, to-morrow, in committee of ways and moans,
A
give every explanation that can reasonably be asked for in
that direction.
Sir J. GRAITA2I-11as he given notice?
Lord PAL3IERSTON—Yes.
31Tgo—ri:t
a_mThatdey rightial is only
lyb
et hheonen. saidfrid will g
ordinaryetnhisevneontiiie
evening
r
Had he not better give a fresh notice?
a pro LS oi de: P. AGTi
notice.m ERRA
A s
upon the one question, that it looked more like the pro-
longation and continuance of the debate upon China than a
debate which naturally arose out of my statement. Sir, it
was not my intention to allude to the debate of last Tues-
day, nor will I do so now. I cannot, however, help ob-
serving that the tone adopted by some hon. members to-
wards the Government appears to me a departure from
that whichonght to characterise our proceedings. (Hear,
hear.) I must say, in one respect, that the right hon.
gentleman the member for the University of Oxford has,
to a certain degree, negatived the charge of combination
between him and the right hon. member for Buckingham-
shire, because combination implies to some extent a simi-
larity and identity of feeling. Now, the right hon. gentle-
man the member for Buckinghamshire, in what he stated,
spoke with a calmness of temper—(hear, hear,)—and with
a statesmanlike view of a great occasion, which I think did
honour to himself and the party to which he belonged.
The right hon. gentleman the member for the University
of Oxford was, however, carried away by a fit of impetuo-
pity and (multi:lllW, which certainly did not betoken any

previous concert with the right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for Buckinghamshire ; and which I think will be con-
sidered by the latter as an unfortunate omen of the co-
operation—if it is to be one—which is to complete the
combination between him and the right hon. gentleman
the member for the University of Oxford. (Laughter.)
But, sir, I said nothing to-night in regard to combinations
or conspiracies that could give offence to any man I
stated merely a fact, which you may call a combination,
or, indeed, you may describe it as an accidental and for-
tuitous concurrence of atoms. (Great laughter.) You may
call it, too, an accidental meeting of different gentlemen
in the same lobby. (Hear, hear.) But when gentlemen
find themselves ♦oting in the same lobby, surely it is
not unnatural to find themselves uniting together to form
an administration. (Cheers.) Now, I did not mention
this as any reproach. I stated it, on the contrary, as a
fact, while agreeing with the right hon. gentleman the
member for Buckinghamshire in the principle he has laid
down, that it is not inconvenient or injurious to the coun-
try to prepare in time for a great change, and that there
must be elements to form another Administration if the
country should think we do not deserve its support. I
therefore think that much which has fallen from the right
hon. gentleman was inappropriate to this occasion. (Hear.)
My noble friend the member for the City, always disposed
to follow in the foootsteps of that statesman to whom
formerly he gave so constant a support, has told us that Mr.
Fox on some occasion called a dissolution a " penal" disso-
lution; and my noble friend, following this precedent,
thinks this a penal dissolution—a punishment of the House
of Commons. (Laughter.) Sir, that is a strange doctrine of
those who think they are speaking the sentiments of their
constituents, and only re-echoing the opinion of the country
—(hear, hear)—of those who think that this judgment is
identical with the judgment of the country. Why, so far
from their looking at a renewed intercourse with their con-
stituents as a punishment, they ought to interpret it as a
triumph, and rejoice at the opportunity of coming back to
this house strengthened and supported in their antagonism
to the Government by the recorded opinion of those who
return them to Parliament. (Laughter, and "hear, hear.")
Well, sir, so much for the dissolution. The right hon.
gentleman the member for the University of Oxford,
amongst others, charges her Majesty's Government with
having entered into a Chinese war without the sanction of
Parliament. Sir, we entered into no Chinese war.
Mr. GLADSTONE—I never said so. (Cheers.and coun-
ter cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. gentleman might
not have intended to say it.
Mr. GLADSTONE —I said a Persian war. (" Hear,"
and "No, no.")
Lord PALMERSTON—WeII, I am very glad that which
the right hon. gentleman conveyed to cur ears was not in
his mind—(laughter)—for it would have been a most prepos-
terous statement, as every one knows that those events in
China happened not only without our previous knowledge,
bat that we were as much surprised at the announcement
of those occurrences as the right hon. gentleman, or any
other person who had perhaps learned them for the first
time by the papers aad despatches which have recent'y
been published. (Hear.) As regards,those operations, the
house has undoubtedly a right to ask what is the intended
policy of her Majesty's Government ? (Hear.) Now I think
there is no change, and there can be no change, in the
policy of her Majesty's Government. The policy of her
Majesty's Government, as much in China as elsewhere, is
security for the lives and properties of British subjects—
to maintain the rights of this country, as arising oat of
treaty obligations—to endeavour by negotiation either to
conclude existing relations, or to restore those relations of
which recent unfortunate events have brought about a
rupture. (Hear.) It will be our duty, as has been said by
my right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty, to
take such measures as will insure every possible exertion
to afford security to British residents in China. (Hear.)
No one knows better than the right hon. baronet the mem-
ber for Carlisle that that is an important matter, requiring
great care ; for he has on former occasions, if not on this—
I will not say magnified the danger to which British inte-
rests are exposed, but said that those interests are so varied
and scattered that they require the most carefully devised
measures for their protection. (Hear.) I shall repeat what
was stated in the course of the debate the other night, that
our intention, even before this outbreak, was, in conjunc-
tion with the Government of France, and if possible, as
we hoped, with the Government of the United States, to
endeavour to procure, by negotiation with the Court of
Pekin, an improvement in the state of our relations with
the Chinese Every one will admit that if an improvement
in these relations could be obtained it would be a gaeat ad-
vantage to civilisation, and conduce very mush to the inte-
rests of British industry. I allow that this is a difficult mat-
ter ; and the difficulty must be increased by the unfortunate
events that have lately occurred. (Hear.) Without stating
anything precise—and Ido not think the house will expect
that I should de so—l may say that the subject is still
under the consideration of her Majesty's Government;
and I am bound to add that it must necessarily be a cub-
ject of serious deliberation on the part of her Majesty's
Government who the person is to be to whom shall be com-
mitted so grave and important a duty. (Hear, hear.) It
must, I think, strike every one that if a person could be
found who could start from these shores imbued with the
feelings of the British Government and the recipient of
their further instructions, a person of that sort would
have more weight with the Chinese than any person now
in Chita. (Hear, hear.) In saying that I hope the house
will allow me to add that I am by no means underrating
the merits of Dr. Bowring—(ironical cries of "Hear,
hear")—to whom I think the greatest injustice has been
done—whose merits have been disparaged to a degree that
astonished me. At the same time her Majesty's Govern-
ment cannot shut their eyes to the gravity and importance
of the matter, and to the fact that it will be their duty to
select for these negotiations—if it take place—such a per-
son as they think most capable of conducting them on the
part of this country. (Hear, hear.) I trust, sir, that this
is as much as the house will expect. I say our policy is
the same. That policy is to maintain our rights, defend
our fellow-subjects, and improve our relations with China;
and I hope it will be found that in selecting means for the
fulfilment of these ends we shall have a due regard to that
duty which we owe to the people of this country. (Hear.)
Mr. SPOONER was of opinion that no consideration
ought to be allowed to interfere with the recall of Sir J.
Bowring. The noble viscount said Sir John was unjustly
used ; but what did he say to that false statement in which
he declared that the Chinese were perfectly right in what
they did—that the Arrow was not entitled to any protec-
tion, while a few days afterwards he declared that the
Chinese were wrong ? Sir J. Bo wring had disgraced the
character of this country. The noble viscount would
never carry with him the confidence of the country as long
as he maintained in his post an official who had disgraced
himself by a falsehood, and had put a stain on the British
character.
Mr. R. KER said that his duty was to look for Conser-
vatism where he could find it, and if he could find it on
the opposite (the Ministerial) benches he felt bound to
adopt it, and not ally himself with parties exhibiting such
discordant elements as those who opposed the noble lord
at the head of the Government. (Hear.)
FINANCIAL PROPOSITIONS OF THE GOVERN
MENT.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the debate had assumed to so great an extent the charac•
ter of an adjourned debate upon China that he had ab-
stained from rising at an earlier period. He wished now
to give notice that to-morrow he should make the same
pryposition to the House with regard to the income•tax
for the ensuing year, which he had already announced,
omitting, however, any proposal with respect to the two
subsequent years. He did not desire to ask the house to
agree to anything that was not necessary for the ensuing
year, and he should therefore move to-morrow for the re-
duction of the income-tax for the next year from 16d. to
7(1. for incomes above 1501., and sd. for incomes between
1501. and 1001. It would be unnecessary to propose a re-
solution in Ways and Means, as no new charge could be
laid on, and to-morrow he would move for leave to bring
in a bill to carry out the proposition he had mentioned.
With regard to tea and sugar, he should confine his pro-
posals to the next current year, and he should move to-
morrow the rates of duty that ho proposed to adopt for
next year.
Sir J. GRAHAM took it for granted that the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer would not divide the house to-mor-
row night on these proposals.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
to go into Ways and Means to-morrow upon the sugar
duties, and to make this the first order.
Mr. GLADSTONE could not suppose his right hon.
friend intended to move at night the resolution he had
placed in the hands of members only the same morning.
Such a course would be entirely contrary to Parliamentary
usage.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not
press his motion to-morrow night if he thought it would
be regarded as a surprise, but he did not propose any de-
viation from the scheme he had already announced, with
one slight exception. He proposed that the duty upon tea
should be ls. sd. next year, and that the sugar duties
should remain exactly as they stood for the ensuing year.
As this was proposing no material change he did not see
how his right hon, friend could assume that the house
would be taken by surprise.
Mr. GLADSTONE submitted that the proposal as tq
the tea duties was really the corner-stone of . the whole
matter. (" Order !")
The SPEAKER said the right hon. gentleman might
put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but
there being no question before the house he must go on
with the paper of the day. After the right hon. gentle-
man's motion was put it would not be competent fog him
to make a speech when there was no motion before the
house.

The subject then dropped.
LAND TAX.
Mr. MACKINNON moved for a select committee to
consider the expediency of allowing a farther redemption
of land tax, and also whether by any other means this tax
might be made more beneficial to the revenue of the coun-
try, and to the reduction of the national debt. He hoped
that the Government would not refuse him the committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER asked the
hon. gentleman to consider, after the statement which had
been made that evening, if it would be worth his while to
press the motion on the house? It would not be easy to
find 14 members to attend under present circumstances.
He would suggest to his hon. friend whether he would not
postpone his motion to% more fitting time.
Mr. MACKINNON felt the difficulty attending the
motion at the present time, bat he hoped a future oppor-
tunity would be afforded him.
Motion withdrawn.

JUDGMENTS EXECUTION.
The order for the committee on this bill was discharged
on the motion of Mr. CRAUFURD.
The bill passed through committee.
An HON. MEMBER moved that the house be counted,
and there being only 28 members present, the house ad-
journed at five minutes past eight.

The suspension we announced yesterday of Messrs.
Copland, Barnes, and Co., provision merchants. They
were an old and respectable firm, and their difficulties
are attributed to heavy losses on a contract for victual-
ling the steamers of the Royal Mail Company, espe•
cially o❑ the intercolonial routes. The amount of their
liabilities has not transpired. According to some ac-
counts it is about 40,000/.
PRISON DISCIPLINE.—We understand that Sir George
Grey has just made the following changes in the prison
districts :—The Home District has been discontinued.
Scotland, with the English counties north of the Hum-
ber and the Mersey (including the counties of York and
Lancaster), is henceforward to be called the Northern
District), under Sir John Kincaid. The other English
counties are divided into a Central and a Southern Dis-
trict—the former under Mr. H. P. Voules and the latter
under Mr. J. G. Perry, inspectors of prisons.
LA.NOA.SHIRE AND YORKSHIRE RAILWAY.—The half-
yearly meeting was held on Wednesday at Manchester, Mr.
W. Stuart presiding. A dividend of 21. 10s. per share
on the 1001, stock, and the respective dividends due on
the guaranteed shares was declared,

friIIEATRE ROYAL, DRURY LANE.—
Lessee, Mr. E. T. Smith.
Acting Manager, Mr. C. Mathews. Stage Manager, Mr. R
Roxby. Scenic Artist, Mr. W. Beverley.
The eminent Comedian, Mr. Charles Mathews, every evening.

Re-engagement of Mr. and Mrs. Keeley.
Great Success of the Gland Christmas Pantomime, the
most magnificent ever produced on the English stage.
THIS EVENING, her Majesty's Servants will perform ilte
popular Comedy,
A CURE FOR THE HEARTACHE.
Characters by Messrs. C. Mathews, Keeley, Vincent, Til-
b ary, Templeton, Carter, Walton ; Mrs. Frank Matthews,
Miss Cleveland, and Miss I. Oliver.
After which will be produced
SEE, SAW, MARGERY DAW ;
Or, Harlequin Holiday, and the Island of Ups and Downs.
The reduced prices as follows, varying throughout the
um, se to suit every one ;—Galleries, 6d. and ls. ; Second
Circle of Boxes, ls. 6d. ; Pit, 2s. ; First Circle of Boxes,
h. 6d. ; Dress Boxes, 35.; Stalls, Ss. ; Private Boxes,
Ws. Gd., V. Is., 1/. Ile. 6d., and 2/. 25.!

OYAL PRINCESS'S THEATRE
THIS EVENING, will be performed