The Sun.
London, England, 1850-05-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 30.
OFFICIAL SALARIES.
Mr. HENLEY then rose to move that an humble ad-
dress be presentei to her Majesty, humbly to request
that she would be graciously pleased to diredt that a
careful revision be made of the salaries and wages paid
in every department of the public service, with a view
to a just and adequate reduction thereof, due regard being
had to the efficient performance of tee several duties.
He believed this subject had not been to the fullest ex-
tent brought under revision since the year 1821. This
House then voted an address to the Throne on the than
circumstances, calling for a revision of the salaries paid
to all members of the service,' and praying for a re-
duction of the numbers employed. That motion
was afterwards referred, by minutes of the Tree-
sury, to the heads of the various departments, and
more alterations and reductions took place in conse-
quence. That measure was afterwards followed up by a
Committee of the.. House, which had referred to itq consi-
deration the salaries paid the officials who held seats
either in that or in the other House of Parliament, which
was somewhat analogous to the Committee which was
appointed a short time ago. Another Committee
appointed is the same year took sogrezince of the
various officers who had here:ofore been paid out of the
Civil List, and who from that time were thrown upon
the Consolidated Fund. Tnese Commieees led to re-
ductions, but not of a great extent, and since that
time there had been no further dealing with the sub-
ject. It would, however, be in the recollection of the
House that about Lwo years ago the present Government
thought it right to refer the expenditure of the two
great branches of the public service to the consideration
of a Committee of this House, and he thought that of
itself was a pretty strong indication that there was some-
thing special in the times to induce the Government of the
'country to take so very unusual a course. It chanced to
Irina to have the honour of sitting on one of those Com-
mittees, but while the report of the Committee on the
army estimates recommended reductions in the heads of
departments, that of the Navy Committee was altogether
silent on the subject; that brought them down
to what took place the other day, when the
Noble Lord at the head of the Govern-
ment brought forward a motion which was carried
to refer certain limited branches of the service to a
Select Committee. With what view the Noble Lord
made that motion he did not know. He did not know
whether the Noble Lord thought any incre tse or any
reduction were necessary, because the Noble Lord did
not tell them ; hut be could hardly suppose that the
Noble Lord had any other object but a reduction
in view. But, however th:it might be, he would slate
shortly to the House the branches of the public service
which the Noble Lord selected in the consideration of
this Committee. They were first the offices held by
gentlemen who held seat; either in that, or the other
House of Parliament; then there was the diplomatic
corps ; and, lastly, there where what were
called judicial offices. Now, he was prepared to show
that each of these separate branches stand upon si
grounds, which some other branches did not. He would
take first in order the judicial salaries. Now
since reference must be had to the remunera-
tion received by eminent men practising iu
the same profession of equal dignity, that
was an important element which must enter into
the consideration of the question of what ought to be
paid to an eminent auvocsto on undertaking a
judicial office, and therefore he maintained that
this branch of the public service stood upon grounds
of its own.—(Hear, hear.) He now came to the diplo-
matic service. Of course a separate element which must
enter, into the consideration of that question must be
the restricted circle of men of ability from
whom they could select individuals to fill the office. They

must also take into account this expenses which an
seeesssesear was neccesarily ,:xptcted to incur in the
various ceantries where the public service required
• te• in to go.—(lle ir.) Therefore they stanil upon sepa-
roes ground from all other branches of the public ser-
eeee_( (leer.) He came next to the official gentletin, n
who held seats either in that or the steer ITeuse
:if Parliament, who, he thought, he should he able to
show steel altogether upon grounds apart train the
ereat body of public servants who held perma-
'tent offices in the various departments.—(Bear.)
In the first place, those gentlemen were only in and out
of office, and subject to a change by a thousand circum-
stances. But there was this peculiarity attached to ti eir
office, that while other servants of the Government were
only required to work by day, the servants of the
Crown in this and the ether House of Parliament were
called upon to work by night as well as by day. Therefore,
both on the ground of not having permanent possession
of their office, and of having to work by day and by
night, he did draw a distinct line between those gentle-
tee r and all the other branches of the public service. If
it was thought that the three branches of the public
service, the army, navy, and ordnance, stood in need of
revision, he wanted to know why it was that larger
amounts of the public expenditure, which be should
bring before their notice, were not also to be subject
to revision and economy, if economy was proper. With
fespeet to the army, navy, and ordnance, those estimates
had Lean annually under the revision of Parliament itself.
With respect to judicial offices and official salaries in
this and the ether Houses of Parliatnent, those had been
recently submitted to more recent discussion than the
larger mass to which he should call their attention.
Now, he knew there was a very large number
of gentiemen, not only in this Houss, but out
of it, who had laid down the almost eategori-
eel opinion that no economy could be practised
and no saving could be made except in the warlike estab-
lishments of the country. Great countenance had been
Oven to that opinion, not only by the Noble Lord the
First Lord of the Treasury, but also by the
late First Lord of the Treasury in his financial state-
ment in 1845. He (Mr. Henley) could not but think
there was a deal of error in that state-
ment. When it was considered how large
the expenditure of the country was, which never
came under the review of Parliament at all, he thought
it would be very difficult to show that if that large ex-
penditure were carefully looked into some con-
siderable saving might not be effected. He
found that under the head of Customs, Ex-
cise, Stamps and Taxes, Pest-office, and Crowe lands,
according to a financial return for 1848 to 1849, the
amount paid under the head of salaries and wages was
no less than 2,818,0001. He found also by the
same return the sum paid in various salaries to Com-
naissionere was 271,0001.; the diplomatic salaries were
140,0001. ; and the salaries of officers in courts of
justice amounted to uo less than 1,970,9241.;
making altogether the sum of 4,327,0001. ode, not one
farthing of which ever came under the review of Par •
liament.—(llear.) Then in the navy, army, and
ordnance, the return of salaries and wages of
persons who had nothing to do with fighting
men showed a aura of 1,500,0001.; for salaries in the
commissariat 100 000/.• salaries in miscellaneous esti-
' mste.s, 1,131,0001. go that there was of sala-
ries which . came under the annual revision of
Parliament a sum of about 2,647,0001. They had in
erldition large sums paid in salaries under the control of
Government, though not paid out of the public Exchequer.
Taking the expenses of all the courts of law, they
amounted to 500,0001. per annum, thus making a total
amount of 7,000,0001. in civil salaries. He wished to
call the attention of the House to the amount of what
was paid to the army, navy, and ordnance. The whale
sum paid in round numbers was 6,500,000/., so that at
least one million more was paid for civil salaries than to
the army, navy, and ordnance; and yet they n ere
told that it was quite impossible to save anything out
of the civil expenses, and that the only way was ts go
to the warlike expenditure.—(Hear, hear.) That seeme I
to him very snitch like, to use a sporting phrase, giving
a " false hollow" to distract attention, and turn inquiry
from those items of expenditure where it was possible to
make a good case. A good deal had been said on this
subject out of doors, and it was thought that the army
was kept up for the benefit of the aristocratic branches
of the community. But how did that stand ? Out of
the army estimates 1,100,0001. went to the officers, and
2 200,0001. to the men. The men were generally taken
from the unskilled labourers of the country. They get
a fad share of the army employment. The Noble Lord
at the head of the Government had held out that it was nut
possible to save more in these estimates than they bad
done. He had made such and such reductions. He had
saved 100,000 L, and when opportuniny offered, he was
going to do a great deal more. Similar language had
been held out by the Right Honourable Baronet at
the head of the Government in 1845. Both
Prime Ministers very much agreed, and that
compelled him to look a little to the actual figures of the
case as they stood when those statements were
respectively made. The Noble Lord (Lord John
Russell) stated, that since 1832, reductions had been
male in the stamps and taxes whereby a saving was
(made of 259,0001. No considerable reduction had been
made since then. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel)
had, he believed, made the statement in 1845, that it
was their duty to reduce these establishments so far as
was consistent with the public convenience and utility,
and due regard to economy, and that the revenue should
be collected with the least possible expenah. But still,
after that admission, and although the subject had occu-
pied the attention of every Government, nothing effec-
tive had been done.—(Elear.) He went on to say that
he thought it would be a delusion to suppose that they
could materially reduce the public burdens by diminish-
ing the salaries Laid to the civil officers of the state.
But when he (Mr. Henley) had showed that they
amounted to 7,000;000/e he thought he was justified in
differing from him in opinion if, upon inspection, it
should be thought just to reduce them.—(Hear, hear.)
lie wished to know how far the Government had realised
savings? That he would show from public accounts. He
came tirst in order with a statement of the compara-
tive expenditure of the country between the year
1838 and the year 1844. When the Right Honour-
, able Baronet (Sir R. Peel) spoke in 1315, he was about
to introduce very considerable modifications in the
tariff, which they were led to suppose would bring
about a very considerable saving. In 1138 the great
branches of the public revenue, the customs, excise,
stamps, and taxes, cost the country, in salaries and
wages, 1,993,5151. He fund that in 1844, at a. time
when they were told that great reductions bad been
made from time to time, and that the tariff had been re-
vised, and various articles struck out of it, yet the cost
of collection had swollen up to 2,034,0001. That was no-
thing like a general reduction. But, further, there
was a very material item of expenditure. He alluded to
superannuation allowances, which should be taken into
account, as well as the actual charge of salaries. In
some of the departments a great many persons were oc-
casionally discharged, and after a little while more
were taken on; and so far from reducing these al-
lowances in 1844, as compared with 1838, there was an
actual increase. From 228,0001., in the latter year,
they had swelled up in the former, to 254,0001. They
had not only had an increase in salaries, but in the su-
perannuation fund, so they had it on the right and on
the left. But that was not all; the revenue collected in
1844 was larger than that in 1838, and yet the expense
of collection, which was only five per cent. in the latter
year, increased in 1844 to 51. 4s. 2d. per cent. There
was an increased per centage in the cost of collection in
the excise and stamps. He was not able to make a
comparison in the taxes. Having. arrived at the year
1844 he wished to draw a comparison with the present
year, but he did not find that there was a reduction. In
the year 1844 they had the property-tax, which was on
also now, and therefore a comparison might ba taken on
all the four great branches of expenditure at this period.
In the debate in 1845 they were promised distinctly by
the First Minister of the Crown that if they would cons
sent to the repeal of the auction duties the saving in the
collection of the revenue would be very great. The
Right Honourable Baronet (Sir Robert Peel), forget-
ting for a moment his usual caution, travelled some-
what out of his' course, and said that, with regard to
plate glass, if' the duty was taken off there would be a
saving in the cost of collection. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer said the same also with respect to the auc-
tion duty, but he found that the supposed saving did not
reach the bum indicsted. In 1844 the amount of sala-
ries in the four great departments of the revenue was
2,244,0001., and, with the superannuation allowances, the
amount was 2,288,580/. In 1848.9 the aggregate amount
of salaries and superannuation allowances in the same
departments was 2,294,648/. After allowing certain re-
ductions, the result of the comparison was, that they had
2,205,000/. against 2.218,0001. Therefore, all the mani-
feld savings from joining offices together in some in-
stances, and abolishing them altogether in others was,
that they were now better by 33.4981. than they were
in 1844. Taking one year with another, the whole
expense did not decrease. Looking back twenty
years, when there were nearly double the duties
to collect, and indirect taxation had not been
substituted for direct taxation, there was not that gain
which they had a
nthecollectionriogfhtoteo expect.
rr,yenu He had dw
e then
upon
ndelt more
the
other
branches of the public expenditure, because it was the
largest, and it was most difficult to collect information
respecting it. He had trespassed, perhaps, at too great
length, up in the patience of the House, but it was not
possible, without the dry detail of figures, to make the
subject understood. The Government had not made out
such a case of continued reduction in these items that
they could show that further reductions could not take
place.—(Hear, bear.) At all events he be 1 shown that
with regard to the revenue, it could be carefully revised.
With regard to Commissioners of Customs, they should
consider hew far these Commissioners could come under
this revision. Many of these Commissions should be
inquired into. The Commissioners of Lunacy, for in-
stance, received 2,0001. a year salary. Why should they
receive 2.0001. a year, and a county court judge only
1,000/.?—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible to say ti at
many of these salaries needed no revision, or that
many of them might not be abolished.—(]leer, hear.)
He now came to another branch of the subj. ct.
He rejoiced at the course taken by the Noble Lose
of euggesting inquiries upon such matters. It was ne-
cessary at periods to tyke a review of the affairs of na-
tions as well as those of individuals. It was be netic'al
occasionally to ova rhaul their affeire. Unless the Noble
Lord (Lord J. Russell) had seen something special in
th4ir circams'ances he would not have adopted that
course. He (Mr. Henley) was not ono a those who
ettrihuted the existing depression to recent legislation.
There was certainly extreme depression, but he did not
intend to go into that ; but it was perfectly jest and
legitimate to show that it was mainly owing to two great
causes; first, the great alteration in the value of money;
aril, secondly, to the consequent decrease in the rate of
interest, which had thus the effect of lowering the rate
of profit, and stimulating competition.---(Hear, hear.)
All these things made it extremely difficult for eersons
of small capitals to make sufficient gain to blq•port I
ttemselves and their families, and these causes of

necessity rendering any fixed salary infinitely
more valueb'e then it wee twenty years ago, this
applied squally to seleries as well as to income derived
from other sources. .Nese, in addition to this, he ehouki
not be considered to trench upon his privilege when he
said that the legislet ion of the last three or four years
had been carried on so as to secure the present low prices
in every article of consumption. When the interest of
fte public debt increased so much for the last twenty
years, he considered that the income must have increased
in proportion to enehle the Government to pay such
high salaries to so great a number of officials as were at
present employe'. He would not dwell any further on
this point, but refer to the case of emigration, which was
well worthy the consideration of the House, as it tended
to show that while the officials of Government were fat-
tening on the income of the country, the people were
ferced to set k for sustenance in a foreign land,
and that, naturally, much against their inch-
nation ; and he would ask to what was that
attributable ? The only answer that he would
venture to give was, to compare the number of emi-
grants in the years 1843 and 1848. In the former year
there were only 26 000, but in the latter there were no
less than 248,000. Again, he would call the attention
of the Rm.() to the state et crime and the number of
criminals in the years 1831 and 1848. In 1831 there
%ste only 19,601; in the latter year. 30,349. While he
admitted that the population had much increased he
could not at the same time admit thst there was any
proportion between the increase of population and the
incrense of criminals. This is also a feature worthy the
consideration of the House, and worthy of being traced
to its proper source. Ile would next direct their a.t n-
lion to the official value or imports and exports, for in
1828 the official value of exports amounted to only
22 000 000/., and of imeorts to 36.000,0001 ; whereas in
1848 the exports amounted to 132,000,000/.. and the im-
ports to only 52,000,00 C/. This showed that the pro-
duce rf the country ie fast failing, and that there is
something requisite to be done by a Government that
derives so great an income from the revenue accruing
from such an increase of revenue; and it also affords
sufficient grounds for considering why so many needle-
women, tailors, shoemakers, and other tradesmen are
depressed and penniless, fer the value of their work in
1831, 1843. and 1844 was ten times more than in 1848.
When the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) some time
since stated that there were several articles that ob-
tained a higher price at present than in any of those
years alluded to, he should say in reply that they were
not more than four in number, whereas there were nu-
merous others that suffered materially. He would call
the attention of the House to those home articles that
were so much depreciated. The articles he (Mr. Henley)
alluded to on which a reduction' was made in. 1848.9
were—first, bread, on which 17 per cent. was lost; next
groceries, on which was lost '25 per sent.; cotton, 30 per
cent.; wool. 10 per cent.; beer, 20 per cent.; shoes, 7 per
cent.; together with several other articles which he could
enumerate hut that he did not wish to trespass too much on
the attention of the House. He therefore could not agree
with the Noble Lord, for the appreciation of the one or
two articles that he (Lord J. Russell) had previously
referred to were of a recent period. His principal ob-
ject in making that motion was to show that there was
a general cry throughout the country for more work,
and as one of the trustees of the public he would never
he found to flinch from his duty, particularly as it was
a matter of very great importance in a commercial point
of view, and should his opinion be erroneous he had only
to console himself that it was not from design, but in the
discharge of a sacred duty that be erred. He hoped he
would not be understood to make any unfair or unjust
allusion to the men at present in authority—for them
personally he felt bound to say that he held the highest
respect—but hoped they would consider that as the
times changed so ought Governments. He knew that
there were many applications from boards of guardians
in various localities for the reduction of the expenses of
the country, and should this question be staved off, and
that any oppression should come on the people, he felt
.assured that Governmenment should adopt some plan
similar to his for the relief and satisfaction of the public.
These were his reasons for bringing the question before
the notice of the House, and he had to thank them for
their kind indulgence.

The CHANCELLOR or the EXCHEQUER said her
Majesty's Government had shown that they were not at
all indisposed to the ostensible object of the Hon. Gen-
tleman's motion; but, at the same time, they could not
conceive the motive of the Hon. Gentleman for bringing
it forwaid at that moment. If the Government had
been negligent in revising the public establishments, or
if they and those who preceded them had not exercised
economy in point of reluction of expense year after
year, his Noble Friend and he would not be indisposed
almost to acquiesce in the motion of the Hon. Gentle-
man; but when they felt that this was a course that had
been pursued by them for a long period, and also by
their predecessors in office, that large reductions had
been effected, as was stated on another occasion by his
Noble Friend, he could not see that the motion bad any
ether object than to express a censure which the Go-
vernment felt they did not deserve, or to create confusion
in the case, which the Government could not coun-
tenance. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
hardly knew what the Hon. Gentleman meant
by his motion. lie had gone into a number
of topics, altogether unconnected with the ques-
tion at issue ; and when he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) had come down to answer the Hon.
Gentleman on the subject of salaries, he was compelled
to answer also the Hon. Gentleman on the subject of
prices, though he had no notice to enable him to pre-
pare for so doing. The Hon. Gentlemau had taken as
a test the price of haberdashery. and by that test had
endeavoured to prove his case. But it should be borne
in mind that a great proportion of that article which was
originally prepared by hand, was now prepared by
machinery, in Glasgow and other places. When, there-
fore, the Hon. Gentleman argued on that hypothesis, he
was utterly and entirely mistaken in hls premises, and
also in his conclusions. The lion. Gentleman had com-
plained of the distress of that large class of poor persons
living by needlework, sni stated that the tailors said
their throats were cut by their wives and children;
and he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) learned from
these persons that the great cause of the depressien was
the low price fur making soldiers' clothes. But if
the proposition of the Honourable Gentleman was
adopted, there would be a still further depression
in that respect, and those who lived by making these
articles would be much worse off than before.—(Cries of
Oh, oh.") Their distress in fact would be aggra-
vated rather than lessened by its adoption. The Hon.
Gentleman seemed to blame his (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's) Noble Friend (Lord J. Russell) for stating
that many items in the expenditure of clerks with 120/.
a year under the Government had not diminished of
late years, but how far was the Hon. Gentleman justi-
fied in so doing? It was perfectly true that the price of
many articles that necessarily entered into the consump-
tion of a person of that salary had not only not dimi-
nished, but had actually increased. Potatoes, for ire
stance, and other matters. He (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) held in Lis hand a return of the expeedi•
ture of the Marylebone Workhouse in 1849, as com-
pared with that of 1843. and he found by that return
that the avetase cost of supportiug each pauper had
considerably increased, including of course food, fuel,
lighting, medical attendance, &c. In 1843 the average
rate for each individual in that establishment was 4s.
44d, per week; in 1849 it was ss. 41. In 1849 the
price of wheat was higher than in 1843. The other
principal items of expenditure stood as follows:-
1843. 1849.
F10ur..... 345. 101. per sack
Potatoes. 964. Od. per ton lo7s. firl.
Oatmeal.. 1 ls. Od. per cwt 1 ls. 41d.
Therefore, in his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's)
opinion, his Noble Friend was fully justified in stating
that upon many of the items that compose the necessa-
ries of life there had been no reduction, while the in-
crease of what was called the green-grocer's bill more
than compensated for any reduction that had taken place
in other items of inevitable expenditure. He (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) stood in a very painful
and unpleasant position in this matter, for he was con-
stantly appealed to, by the very persons who would tell
him that salaries should be reduced, respecting the hard-
ship of individual cases of clerks in the employ of Go-
vernment, and those who reproached him most jn that
House for not reducing them were those who-complained
most strongly of these cases of hardship at his office.
It was no ph asant thing to carry into effect motions such
as that of the Hon. Gentleman, and the pain that he
felt in doing so was nor, he could assure the House, at
all lessened by the imputations of cruelty which were
freely indulged in on those occasions. The principle,
however, upon which the Goverment proceeded.was not
as laid down by the Honourable Gentleman.
He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) blitered
that a general reduction such as that Hon.
Gentleman proposed would not be wire or just. He
believed, on the contrary, that to exact a greater amount
of labour for existing payments, and to reduce future ap-
pointments, was a mode far more conducive to the ad-
vantage of the public service, as well as a far wiser
and more just economy. But the Government had not
been negligent in the matter of reduction of salaries
either—not of existing salaries, because they believed
that would be unjust—but in the case of appointments
made upon the relinquishment of situations—uniformly
giving the successor to such situation less than his pre-
decessor, and imposing upon him more duties. That was
true economy. To reduce salad. s when greater exer-
tions were required of persons long in office under Go-
vernment, would be, in his opinion, to act cruelly towards
those parties. The Government was bound to stand by
them under such circumstances, and to protect them by
all the means in their power. The Honourable Gentle-
'man seemed to have omitted all r ference to those higher
salaries which formed the subject before the Committee
appointed by his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's)
Noble Friend; therefore he (the Chancellor of the Ex-
ehequer) should say nothing about it. In regard to the
other salaries. he acquiesced, as did also his Noble
Frienl, in the principle of the arnenclint lit of the Hen.
M, ether for Buckinghamshire, that it vtes the duty cf
the Govetureent, lit their own responsibility. to introduce
the measures that might be necessary for effecting every
reduction in the national establishments, consistent with
the efficient discharge of the public service; but
he believed that it would not be consistent with
the efficient discharge cf the public service to reduce,
generally, as the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Ox-
ford proposed, the salaries of all public servants. He
di(' not say that on making any new appointments it
would be unjust to make them at a reduced rate of sa-
lary ; but he did think it would be cruel to persons who
had been thirty or forty years in the public service to
turn round upon them and reduce them now. A grout
deal was said about reduction; but how would that prin-
ciple apply to the leweet class of clerks in the public
offices? Those persons were not paid so well even as
menial servants. Was the House of Commons prepared
to be unmindful of the service of this um el.ent and able
class of public servants? With retard to a reduction of
expenses, he (the Chancellor of the. Exchi qu, r) would
just point out what had been done in past Years by the
Government which had preceded the present Govern-

.."
- ,

ment, and also what had be. n done by the Gaid
to tehich he belonged. Reduction, in fact, 131`),,,',
o'
at,
ep. n from year to ye:tr, and from daY 'l3°
tot a gradual revisioa was,c,. by
.1n process. In 1835 a return was moved olp',
for 1)15,--0'
Hee. and Gala it Relative the Member
etd
(Litueleter)---"d by that return the 11°1155,,
see that while the official salaries in 1915 87-00°A"
to 3,700.000/., in 1835 they amounted only t(lhJi
or 1,000 000/. less in twenty years. And, nat 141;
11.1crea,ed in amount since then, it was ve",:,h4-ileit.
te nal leb(ur had been thrown upon the Peu"rfier
tnents, and because various duties were Dow Pe 11101
by the central government which had Previ6„opolft
petertned by the several local authorities of 'Woo
Referring to the Treasury, Hon. Gentlemen wseretojf
that this department, and those offices w.,'lftee,lir
posed to be the favourite patronage of the Slais'6ol,l
the hovered
t(iiifidergone great reduction. Excluding
cletks (supernumeraries and others), it aP,Phe 6,
39 rr,
heress in 1821 the duties were discharge,' "i's 49
sons, with an segregate salary of 42,9601, '„tesillii
Ore discharged by 29 persons, with an ag,gregrod sr.
only 24,6801, being a reduction of 18,6006 e
wards in 30 years. Again, in 1821, there `ivealr-00
separate boards of customs for the three kiegus„ate
211 Commissioners in all, who received an eggrA
nry of 29,5001. In 1849 there were, ever' CP°
44
(V ir ss',
Commissioners for the united empire,d liege svi;-e
amounted but to 10.9001. In a few moat" /;,-redoe/,0
be unother Commissioner reduced: this fag sue
t•
considerably inure than half. Again, in 411:
in-aids of inland revenue, in 1821 there Were ,1555;
missioners, who were paid salaries equal W. ;Ist'
ut present there were only eight, whssh-e °ll/I
amounted to 11,200/., and one of that
alsoalso slinrtly reduced. Altog ther 75 bur-eitiol,tl
ointments had been reduced, with salaries ilei;uoter;
60,280/. a year, since 1821, by each succ.ealtsolll4
ha
meat since that period. Even in the last two rveo,l7,
been a reduction in the salaries of the 9. isr
quivalent to 5,000/. a year—from 1847 to 184„ tolf,
nut,
t, therefore, quite fair of the Hon. Gentle:coet
plicate the Government unmindful of /135 t
„;
which they professed,
to carry out •
, or in that respect at all neglee' f►l of Me(
duty, His (the Chancellor ofthe Eseaequsr"'
Friend had stated the a
and which the flouSe
. bine ieo
amount of reduction bad toil
by the various consolidations of offices' thale-,oo%eilli)'
place. The number of persons reduced was 'f
theito annual expense saved was over a quarter 511159.;
the
that
an At this moment the Paymaster of
tar public servant, Sir A. Spearman, and lobe;
yaomethie Treasury, were engaged, as tlefoired
for past, in revising salaries. of tll
they madetmarecommended reductions to Ihe 0614
65,0001. a year in the coat of the customs rel.eat
their second, which was yet adoPted,ollo-estirori
would no doubt be carriednot into effect, ree
further reduction of 7,000/. per annern;
when the Hon. Gentleman said that itilftiChrre'
stances the customs establishment was 1)/1"• PI/;
ctiotenteormity w ith the reduction that had tske-oeiss
customs duties on various a t." .les it °lll lislss'l
should know that certain portions of •this estliboiogto
the
ere obliged to be kept up for the aceeelieeoll,°o"
import and export of goods to and from tl00";ie
lie was sorry to trouble the House with viPil f, 0,01
donem in various departments, but as the Pe-0'001:0
appeared to have lost sight of the reduce 010,fil
hadaa
Inoccurred, he would briefly enumerate 50n3ofthe
the Pay-office the offices of paynfasterhoes" oelloo
service and the exchequer-bill audit had, 11
these;
a.dated under one head, and the saving elreV
had ref was 16,0001. yearly. The Houourslord
those
rred to the expenses of collection, sod
of Te employed, in relation to the reeeoll.s.o
()afire a v stated that the diminution of revers rk4
coLection were not always in proper fen; o'o
in particular cases, it was found necellesri refei'd
upl establishments for the protection of °sof lege,:}'
It did not, therefore, follow that a reductioti o.'ol
e‘ntahled Government always to reduce the ehiP,ietier:
oron. Government, however, had reticle cealto
uctions during the last two year., tr'eliot es_.Fl(
January, 1848, to the sth of Janua•ryt te"
he proved by a comparison with the last
vious years:—
til
Inthe year 1847, the charge for collecting 6efee°r
was 1
••• x 5 19 1
In 1849 it was •••
•••
5 1 '
•••
The charge for the excise was, iri••lB47 6 7. "el
In 1849 it was 5 10 5
Fur the stamps, it•t••lB47, it was ::. 2 1 7
In 1849 it was 6i ;el,
For taxes, in 1847, it was 5 0 to.

In 1849 it was ... .. 3l, 031°10?
'There was no very mat, rial variation in tier lidi
lectiug the stamps and taxes, but in the °lablepotill
of revenue the reduction had been considers
excise, however, it amounted to about ,Tl''''' 00, c,
the course of the last two years, and 10:0 Pats
who knew how to calculate this redealvinteleti
would know that it would in the aggregate *beli3,,
very large sum indeed. These reduction9.loo,,,Pill'i
before, had also been effected in the face enete.://
able increase of business; for it was well itellieet los"
who paid attention to the subject that a e lit) ell'l
and pressure of business had occurred ia 1000,te,
partecents. From the highest official to the'. netrof
a great amount of additional work had to b` roo 11 ,
'l' hen, again, it was difficult to say wb330.101,110„111'
amount of salary ought to be; but lookiaaje 4'4 "l
ries paid by other great establisheeadfieibefr,ie
an estimate might be made to sbeer;a,b 0" 0'
salaries paid by Government were ten 134°0,411;001'i
with the salaries received by persons iti ire foy,,a;''
elishineets. If a scale of pri%a:e salaries e'e'se Oh' 6;
the House would then see whether ibieh- 0 hkel d
ments sere carried on at a less expen'e .":13"ter?
vernment establishments. He believed it yelo-orel"0441
that quite the contrary was the tact. lie /7,11)84'.
pens., of the salaries of all descriptions pil—gr ),:0,,,"
of England amounted to 211,000/. aye fe.te v•-,lffi'P'
whole of the salaried and wages Pi' ree.'a sty
penses of the Treasury, the Home-office,„-f "t{
office, the Colonial-office, the lir,:;' „gel
office, Office of the Board of Tra"" to 19 0
Education Department, amounted together, oe'it'olll
All the great offices of the eountr.7 reir Or
..,o ,r
in wages and salaries 20,000 e per tinny,'" -etre/
sum paid by the Betide of England. Pc! -dee alt
could say that the expense of those Publicseef CO 4
was greater by comparison than the-Off erigre ttl
establishments. The highest salaries l'h re e'ito,ll
offices varied from 2 000/. to 2,500 L, and teeSel„l'e°,ol'
more than six or eight at that scale, -nrolr-r%)
course, of solicitors, who were paid i° thet-leof
the earnings of other professionale °'hrdee'ho 4.,,4
Take the East India Company, an established tel
more nearly than any other apeNecieee ;4'4
raster of a Government establishtnente e 40;0:
of' the India Company had a salary 0' e-e'eiclais rli
house; this was higher than the higheAs" '01)(1'reot,0
.110
the Government. Several officers ha'jnee't 13 f rifi
several others 1,500/., and others had 1,"-‘, hill': A.
of which, in proportion to the duties, wer;ooo,`, „",ihrf
the rate raid in the Government establi" 00,0
secretaries of many of the dock corepaniesosee'aboie
companies had very large salaries, is/se•P'altil
2,000/. a year. The secretary of the ee-ti 81-061r,e0
Duck Company had 2,000 L a year and a minsrietiV e'
Ir
and several railroad secretaries had sn*sperdlitots'
high. Since he had been in the House° rnf 0 itiiDeoi
placed in his hand, showing the expense: -03464111,
don establishment—that of a brewer. IL oil al
,01
penses for salaries and wages were 9,6o:eatlia,ei f,
. great redactions in the price of necessariTheig49)e
—there were the same number of persons :10 'or,
.4
as at the above period—and their exiefies- oe,-,9/
10,049 L, showing an actual increase for t-e 01,10",
of persons, notwithstanding the chersphefoi'ete' F
tides of necessity, of 1,344/. per annum: ri s *-res°ll,
persons had been taken on, whose saLs'al tb°o
.ts
more than the sum he had named. This vii„- oats 'd'ee'4.l
be gathered from a reference to a Pr'ar.y 1..,01' tr,dl7,
went, the proprietors of which had ev_,—,t Sesri,
to get their work well done on the "1,:r1 'osed
terms. In the instance he had quoted ite"- Mettle'"
necessary not to make reductions,. but tka°o of h;) PiLt
pay of those to whom the practical e 014"; to t't tee IF
ness was entrusted. He would now reetatteo4, 00 ;I'
the consequences which had followed a° 54(00;0. ,
that whin the lion. Member sought,t°,,,,-ero( 01110:
House, or rather to force upon the urun'rt e'oe.,o' rt
would read a short extract from the 'rePntel/ Ore'
rectors of the Great Western Chad w tioeu beliqf
trative of the consequences that f°l^; otl vd:
attempt to reduce the salaries of their eerivne Pip; 00
point that was considered fair and just'
aoo° Al
th man opposite cheered, but he was not a deocits i
way companies were more unlikely t° ere 10 0.0,04
ture than other parties; on the contrares4,ieS,
iitYpi
much inclined to think that railway 00°)Pieteteee te,)
tweed by as lively a sense of their ownha 1,-to rte
Hon. Gentleman himself could possiblat. is
dot[
;V
was dated April, 1850; it stated-- air eliiri elf.,
regret the board feels bound by the silos. tr
proprietors to represent that t,a-ed teditcddi
rience of a few months has Tea"; 00;„.90,f,
prehensions. Since the reduction °lei; "hilfe to
whole establishment has become uesooo,
1;00 :10111
and principal clerks, with few Ote•Phlo sel,ies. ii ,
seeking other employment; Some vase Ser'oill'i, fri
quitted, and others are about to leave the e°
• oio,
has the effect of the reduction been CO,° r severe frdelf
to those whose salaries were reduced; '° in Shoe p
in despair of improving their positi°%reltleotly
service, have also resigned, to obtain °3 boa ', come
ployment elsewhere. The directors to tee cane
N
practical proof that serious prejudie irser,Boo4l/1.0,
has arisen, and they apprehend that nos 051,icilifije-
sue, unless st.pa be now taken to give 5,1)00 of sloth
an established scale of salary sod PrecYlogtb a 001,3
officers and serrants can rely. I„ligy, 51.:nd ~'wotfit
with great experience and proved ev• erity e- ar;
in managing affairs towards the Pr°sP is o°s to fi';
of any important undertaking, sus apt
ti 01000 0 a'
be stained kilt the eisceurageme° rednetalasetiof,
whom so mace depends, nor ea° a peal' vor
lanes be expected to counteraetr, DeatOlot,iptiff
pression in times of difficulty."--(geeer tbe rtlplilo',
liered the statement of the directorsc,ed if 0 ye 110
perfectly true, and he was further sat bed elea,:ogie.,,o
measure of reduction, such as that of that Did 00i,,,te,
opposite, was likely to be adopted :Ants wat, 'be 'erg'
great discouragement to public stenr:stho;ol3l:o:l,..:ititleirfer;
take place, but that valuable servants ,se
error/
ee ereao ~
away from their situations, and
able injury would be inflicted nn
(flear.) lie only wished to refer to._.duked 0,11,1611/
bezause Hon. Gentlemen sometimes z, Ila of DeOceio
incrense of salaries which had taken Ac! pry 6.)
as compared with times gone by' oof 6 itl3o Aililli
brought in which was in the miter_ .
ante 10 0.„,e
pensation Act. This was in 17" i
trioting joillte4l
question would afford means of co."
_iwilat; t tesook
then with those which persons holdingfbe ,Fe 5,000
.1g
now enjoying. This.
produced on the currency referred
_stricii OP"
(00, was be feitreolby theioo/1 0,,,,f 'lj
Geetteenan, and before the Banke ''''
-d
er eillieu
when payments were wade in P