The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-20 00:00:00

Mr. GREENE (Chairman of the Committee) said a
vote could not be postponed.
Mr. HUME doubted that decision very much. How-
ever, it certainly could be postponed by consent of both
parties ; and if the Government withheld its consent
from so reasonable a proposition he would oppose the
vote altogether. and divide the House upon it.
Ministers still declining to postpone the vote, Mr.
HUME was understood to move that it be reduced by
the sum of 2,000/ Strangers were ordered to withdraw,
and the House proceeded to divide upon the amendment,
when there appeared—
For the vote
Against it
• Majority for the vote —4s
- - -

On the gallery being re-opened, we found •
Mr. HUME addressing the Committee, having, as we
understood, previously moved that the Chairman do re-
port progress. No Ministry that ever sat on the Trea-
sury benches had got the estimates voted with so little
opposition as the present one—(Hear, hear)—and there-
fore it had no excuse for the course it had'thought
proper to pursue. They were called on to vote between
2,0001. and 3,000/ for the expense of the custom-house
on the island, and yet there was not one of the gentle-
men who could state what were the items of the revenue
derived either from the customs or the excise. He
thought they were bo-und to give the Committee some
explanation.
Dr. BOWRING thought the pressing the vote
through the Committee was acting without ordinary
courtesy. They had no means of judging of the neces-
sity of the vote at all. He should feel bound to support
the motion for reporting progress.
Lord STANLEY said he would undertake that every
detail and information should be laid before the Commit-
tee to the fullest extent.

Mr. WILLIAMS thought the Committee was entitled
to some information. The promise of the Noble Lord
only referred to a future time, while the point was to
ascertain now whether the vote was necessary.
Sir G. CLERK said the vote was accompanied with
more details this year than on any other occasion, as he
had had the claims classified. He would be prepared on
Monday to furnish Hon. Gentlemen with both the gross
and net amount of the increase of the revenue of the
island for the last three years.
Sir C. NAPIER asked what was the use of a salary
of between three and four hundred a year to a harbour
master ? He hoped the Hon. Member for Montrose
would divide the Committee. _ - _

Mr. HUNIE said it was on principle that he objected
to proceeding ; he objected, on the principle that they
ought to have the information before going to a vote.
The Government might carry everything if they chose
by their majority, but where there was a reasonable re-
quest made for information, he thought it ought to be
granted.
Dr. BOWEING observed that so many Hon. Gentle-
men had entered the House ready to vote who had not
heard a word of the discussion, that he would not now
press the Hon. Member to divide the Committee.
Mr. AGLIONBY also trusted that the Hon. Member
would withdraw the motion, on the promise that the
Government would afford the information. . .

After a short conversation, Mr. HUME withdrew his
motion.

On 7,2191. being•proposed in aid of the Western Aus-
tralian Fund,
Mr. I4UME asked what was the present state of the
colony ?
Lord STANLEY referred the Hon. Gentleman to the
annual statistical report of the colony ; he wished to
have any other details which the journals of the House
would furnish, they should be produced. The Blue-book
contained the items of revenue. and expenditure under
every head, and it was also accompanied by an annual
report from the Governor.
Dr. BOWRING said some of the Blue-books con-
tained items which were continued the same year after
year. Some of them were drawn up in an admirable
manner, and oibers very inefficiently.
Mr. ROEBUCK thought that as some of the reports
and returns furnished to the House were so voluminous
as to be perfectly useless, this information might be
given in a very small compass.
Dr. BOWRING thought a colonial budget would be a
great advantage. Such a system existed in France,
where all the receipts and disbursements with respect to
the colonies were accounted for.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 3,7751., to defray expenses incurred in
the colony of South Australia,
Mr. HUME asked what was the present state of that
colony ?
Lord STANLEY said that Governor Grey, who had
conducted himself, since he came to the government of
the colony, with great zeal and ability, had stated, in
his last accounts, that he had not overdrawn the sum
allowed him by the Government for the service of the
colony, and that the revenue and expenditure of the
colony were now equal.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote, of 4,2241., in aid of the settlement of
Port Essington, was agreed to after a short discussion;
The next vote proposed was fur 9,8121., to defray the
expenses of the establishment at the Falkland Islands.
Mr. ROEBUCK believed that there was some ques-*
tion as yo our right to these islands at all, and he thought
they had better be at once given up. The climate was
very inhospitable, and they were not of any use. He
doubted whether they ever could become a colony, and
yet the Government had here a regular establishment,
with, as usual, a chaplain, and they were now called upon
to vote 9,0001. for their support.
Lord STANLEY said the islands had been taken
possession of by the late Government, and it was thought
desirable to assert our right to them. A small estab
lishment had been sent out there, which, of course, was
an expense to the country, as the colony produced no-
thing. It was, however, desirable to maintain it as a
station to afford assistance to ships, and to furnish them
with fresh meat and provisions. The estimate was on
the lowest possible scale, and there was every desire to
keep down the expenditure.
Mr. ROEBUCK complained that the Noble Lcrd had
not given any assurance that this would ever be a co-
lony. He stated, in the first place, that it produced no-
thing; and, in the second place, that it was kept up to
furnish fresh provisions to ships. Now, what did they
want with a governor, government clerk, and chaplain,
with an expenditure of 9,000/. a year, to furnish fresh
provisions for ships?
Lord STANLEY said that the island produced rough
grass, and there were cattle there which supplied the
ships with fresh meat.
Dr. BOWRING drew the attention of the House to
the manner in which this estimate had increased. In
1842 it was 2,000/.; the next year it had increased one
hundred per cent. ; it was 4,0001. ; and now, in 1844, it
was 9,8001.
Mr. HUME protested against maintaining this esta-
blishment when it had been first proposed, and he had
then been told that it was never to exceed 2,0001. It ap-
peared from the returns that, during the last half year,
the amount received for beef and hides was 981. 10s. 11d.,
and the expense of looking after the cattle was 1,0001.
Mr. A. CHAPMAN supported the vote; which,
After a few words from Lord STANLEY,was agreed to.
On the proposal of a vote of 7,5654 for the expense of
the colony of New Zealand.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that in this case he found they
had a governor, a chief justice, and a bishop. Now this
was a colony founded upon what was called the grandest
discovery of modern times—a self-supporting colony—
and here they were called upon, now, to pay for it. He
found here, as in other instances, a great desire to push
forward the Church. What did they want to do with a
bishoy? They could not bo content with sending out an
honestrpoor parson, but they must send out, a bishoP..
What could they want with a bishop in-New Zealand? It
was an outrage on the country to be making these estab-
lishments for bishops who were maintained out of the
sweat of the English people.
Lord STANLEY had no desire to discuss the pro-
priety of furnishing religious instruction to those who
emigrated to our colonies.—(Cheers.) The present Go-
vernment was not responsible for the appointment of the
Bishop. It had taken place under the late Government.
Dr. Selwyn, the present Bishop, had given up all his
hopes of preferment here to undertake the office of
Bishop, in the colony on the faith that he should have the
salary. The faith of the Government was pledged to
the Bishop and ho hoped the House would not break the
faith which the Government had pledged to him.

Mr. ROEBUCK said, it might have been that the
Bishop of New Zealand gave up his expectations in this
country to be promoted to the Bishopric of New Zealand,
but that was no reason why this country should he taxed
for such useless dignity. The. Noble Lord made an ad
misericordiam appeal to the House, but why should this
country be obliged to maintain expensive Church esta-
blishments in all our colonies ? He could suggest a
reason, but it might be unpalateable.
Mr. HUME said, the Government had distinctly
pledged itself not to introduce this charge among the
estimates—a pledge distinctly made to this House, and.
through this House to the country. The Noble Lord
told them the Government was pledged to the Bishop.
Which was the pledge, to the House or to the country,
to be first redeemed ?--(Hear, hear.) He thought that
to the country. Half the people of England did not go
to church, yet they were obliged to pay not only for the
Church in this country, but for a Church among a
people whom they knew nothing of. The next thing
the Government would do would be to send out a Bishop
to the Falkland Isles, and to every other habitable
colony that a handful of people could exist upon.
Lord STANLEY said the vote had been sanctioned
by the House for the last three years, and he now saw
no reason why they should depart from their former
practice.
Mr. VERNON SMITH said the Noble Lord was
mistaken in stating that the late Government had intro-
duced the vote to the Bishop of New Zealand among
the estimates. It was not so. The Noble Lord
was the first Colonial Secretary who introduced
this vote among the estimates. He thought the ap-
pointment of a Bishop to New Zealand was inappropriate
and inexpedient, and calculated to bring ridicule on the
Bishop himself.
Lord STANLEY said he was incorrect in saying that
the late Government had introduced the vote to the
Bishop of New Zealand among the estimates, but it
had been sanctioned by the Treasury, and the Bishop
had gone out on the faith that the vote would be granted
by Government.
Mr. AGLIONBY spoke in favour of the apppintment.
Lord SANDON said the New Zealand Company had
offered great inducements for a bishop to go out to New
Zealand. They were most anxious for the appointment.
Mr. HUME—Then let them pay for it.
After some further observations from Dr. BOWRING
and Mr. WILLIASIS,
Mr. HUMS moved that the vote of 7,6571. be reduced
to 6,975/.—that was minus the vote to the bishop.
After a short conversation the Committee divided,
when the numbers were-:--
For the amendment
Against it .... 80

Majority