The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-11 00:00:00

Now he could not understand what was the mean-
rig of the words in these clauses, unless they
went to sanction the purchase of railways. Fur-
ther on these powers were again confirmed
as in clauses-nine, twelve, fourteen, and many others.
He wished to know how Acts of Parliament were to be
interpreted—whether they were to he 'Construed by their
own words; or by the explanation a Minister might
choose to give of its intention ? The Right Honour-
alA 'Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) had argued, ' the
other evening, that the Executive could not of it-'
self buy up railways, but that Parliament must
be. appealed to on the . subject, as Parliament
would have to find the money, .They all knew Parlia-
ment would have to find the money, and they also knew
that if this Act were passed there would be very great
difficulty, at a futnre day, in dissuading Parliament from
finding the money to put into force the provisions of
an Act. deliberately sanctioned by the Legislature.
Besides, let them look at the effect of this one
month's notice. Was it to be supposed that
this one month's notice would furnish sufficient
time for the Parliament to inquire into the desirableness,
and confirm the policy or the purchase of a railway ?
Did it not rather read thus :—that the' Executive was
to decide the question of purchese-or no purchase ; that
having determined on the formerethey gave the month's
notice, and then came to Parliament tor•the money, ex-
pecting that it would be voted as a Matter of course.
He would maintain that this Bill, sanctioning the prin-
ciple of purchasing railways, was erroneous. Whatever
the intention of the Government was, no man could read
it without coining to that eonclusion; and that was
the conclusion the Railway Directors and the
public had come to. He did not believe that
the principle of purchasing these great works was'
one • that was deemed, by the public to be
advantageOus: Private enterprise , had done more :for
this country than the Government or the Executive had
ever done. .He thought these measures should be left
to indiViduels.. If the great change proposed by the
Bill was to be made, he • wished to know upon what
principle it was to be made, and Why? No ease had been
made out hitherto for the adoption ef the course proposed.
The Bight Hon. Gentleman had spoken of high profits
and per tentage, but there was no proof of large incomes
having been made. Those' incomes had probabf:,- not
averaged more than .5 percent. , From a statement now
`before
the public,- fotie only out of seventy railways
made •10 per cent., and all of them varied from 6 to 3 per
cent. There was nothing to show that railway preprietore
were grossly exacting from the public; or that the public
were suffering from high charges. Th. Right lion.
Gentleman had spoken of third-class trains. Now, no
man • more than himself wished that the working
classes should have every accommodation on rail-
ways, and his opinion was, that to no class
had the railway companies given more facilities
of travelling than the , workieg• c:asses. 'rhe Eight
Hon. Gentleman in his speech had no leis than four'
times adverted to the monopoly by railways 'he thought
that that staternenteame with a bad grace /nem one who
hactsanctioned monopolies of every description. Railway
.Companies had conferred a great benefit on the corn:nu-
nity ; it gave them a cheaper and more see mode of tra-
velling. There *ere no .establishthents in this-country car-
Tied on With such admirable management and arrange-
ment as. the railroads. There was nothing in the Govern-
ment establishmentswhich could compare with them in the
nicety and admirable propriety of their management.
GOvernment ships were not so welt arranged. No
'person who went in Government packets could
;say but that the conduct which he met with on board
.those • packets not inferior to what was to be
;met with in packets under the management of public
,companies. The management of the Post-office was not
'such as would justify them in placing in the handy of
. the Government the conveyance of passengers.—(Hear.)
What a long time had passed by before a reduction in the
. rate of postage was obtained. At that very moment
the mails from -London to Manchester were sent by a
round-about, circuitous way, instead of going by a way
which would convey them an hour earlier ; and all the
representations made by the Corporation and Chamber
of Commerce of Manchester were neglected. But there
• were other considerations connected with this ques-
tion besides that of the economical one.—(llear, hear.)
There was a consideration of much political consequence.
The London and Birmingham Railway alone employed
froth 1,500 to 2,000 persons; with salaries varying
from 701. to 1,0001., and they spent more than 200,0001.
for wages, stores, toils, and a variety of other expendi-
ture. The Great Western Railway must pay
more than this, and if 'all this influence
fell into the hands. of the Executive Government,
would it not affect the freedom of the constituencies of
those places through which the railroads passed ?
(llear, hear.) The constituencies of those places would
be under the thumb of Government, and they would
possess the influenee of the same description
which the Government of the day always had in
Devonport, Rochester, and Pembroke. What happened
at Kendal, were a guard was taken from his duty thathe
might vote for the Government candidate, whose opinions
he did not approve of, would happen at those places.
For the last two years he had travelled as much by
railways as any man, and for civility, propriety of con-
' duct, and fairness in every respect, he could say that
no institutions could stand a comparison with the railway
establishments of England. But even if there were some
evils, the remedy proposed by the Right Hon:President of
the Board of Trade was an inefficient one. It was
well known that Government establishments were worse
managed than any others. The constitutional principle
of the Bill was also a dangerous one, and he should op-
pose it. With respect to a revision of fares-, he
admitted that much might be said ; but with re-
gard to third-class fares much had been done to
better the accommodation tof the working classes
who were conveyed by the third-class carriages.
For some' years past there had been a very great im-
provement, and the directors of railways had come to
the opinion that the interests of railway proprietors were
identical with those of the public. Under all the cir-
cumstances of the case,. and considering that the railway
companies expressed their willingness to meet the Go-
vernment fairly and . openly, he thought the
Government would do .well to consent to post-
pone the 'measure until next session. In conclusion,
he must say he did not think it was right to cast slurs
on railway proprietors with respect to the opposition to
this Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He believed that the opposi-
tion was general.; and it was increased by the circum-
stance that then- Government seemed so 'exceedingly
anxious 'to' pass the Bill at that late period of the session.
He should certainly vote for the amendment that the
Bill be read that day six months.
Lord SEYMOUR said all the railway committees
had come to the conclusion that the interests of the rail-
way companies were not sutliciently identical with those
of the public. He thought it was very expedient that there
should boa revision of the railway fares, and that would
necessarily involve an investigation into their profits.
With respect to the provisions of the Bill for carrying
the poorer classes at a cheaper rate, he thought no one in
that House would•do otherwise than approve of it. That
provision itself showed the proper and reasonable spirit
which prompted the Bill, and the only consideration for
the House would be in what way that object could be
best secured. With respect to the enactments regarding
the conveyance of the mail, he considered it a power
that ought to belong to the Government not only as re-
garded future but all existing railways. Then as to
the patronage which it was said would be
vested by this Bill in the Board of Trade,
he must say •he saw very little in that
objection. Whatever there might be in it,
however, he was willing, as a member of the Committee;
to take his share of the responsibility along with the
Government. He could not, on the whole, see the
slightest objection to the principle of the Bill ; and as
to the machinery, whenever it might be desirable to alter
and amend that, it could be best done in committee.
Mr. BERNAL said the present measure appeared to
him to be so peculiarly important in its probable conse-
quences that he could not refrain from offering
a few observations upon it. He would pass by
' the attempt at insinuation that had been made
that all parties opposed to this Bill were supposed
to have an interest in railway property. For his
own part he never
.held a share in a railway, or
canal,. or an assurance company in his life, but he did
not presume to say that those who did so were not
bound to give the resulte of their experience
to those less informed upon such subjects.
'The present was a measure!that depended upon its de-
taile. He willingly assented to having third-class car-
; riages . for the purpose of giving facility to the tea,
yelling of the poorer classes ; but before railways
were established, how did the poorer classes travel—
why. by waggons. For his own part, he knew no
class of persons who were more likely to be benefited by
railways than the poor. As to the option to•be given
to the Government or the Board of Trade, which was
the same to purchase any.railWay, he believed it was the
first time such a proposition had ever been put forward.
When first the question of railways was brought for•
ward in that House there was' some degree of negligence
on the part of the Government ; but they now pro-
, posed to crush the hopes of rising railway companies.
The contingent patronage incident to such a control as
it was proposed to give to the. .Government would be
attended with great inconvenience, if not danger. It
would be necessary at length to make it the law that no.
person having an interest in a railway, or an employment
in one should vote in the election of a Member ofParliament.
There was a complication of clauses which would destroy
the effect of the Bill. He believed that the tide of cons.
munication would be checked by the Bill, and lie there-
fore advised the Right Hon. Gentleman to be cautious.
The Bill was compulsory in its object; in its intent, and
in its language, and he called on the House to reject it.
Mr. COLQUITOUN defended the vote he gave on a
former occasion with regard to the Bill. He objected to
the tone of the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of
the Board of Trade. When he saw the Member for
South Lancashire. and the Member for Reading,
and when he 'saw Mr. Saunders and Mr. Hudson
whom the Right Honourable Gentleman praised so
much, meeting in London within two days after the
Bill came out, And expressing their strong opinions
against it, could he suppose that such men—men of
such, intelligence were played on as the tools of lawyers
and agents out of doors.—(Laughter.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman said he wouldnot allow this Bill to be postponed,
He would not consent to a postponement of the Bill,
stating that it was founded on the third report of the
Committee, which was a short one, and published many
months ago. He did read that report, and his ob-
jections to it were as strong then as before the
measure was introduced ; and to show that all was
not approval on the part of the railway companies with
respect to this measure, he quotsd an extract _from the
Railway Chronicle warning them of the consequences of
this Bill.