The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-15 00:00:00

ettrti lattion

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.
FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF THIS DAY.
GLOBE.—When we said that people would not fight
in these days about points of faith, we did not mean to
say that they would not squabble about the appropria-
tion of Church revenues. We should be guided by one
principle, and by one alone, on that subject, in a country
like Ireland. We need not say, perhaps, that ours is not
the principle of Sir J. Graham—that so-and-so was esta-
blished at the Reformation, and ratified by the Act of
Union. Other things were established soon after the Re-
formation, which have been altered since. The wise King
Jamie, who planted Presbyterians in Ulster, restored
Episcopacy in Scotland. England has not maintained
that Episcopacy—or else that too might have been
"ratified" in the Act of Union with that country.
Suppose it had, and that discontent at our hierarchy
had continued undiminished. Would the date of its
establishment have been :any good argument in its
favour ? Would it not rather have been an argu-
ment against it, as something no time could naturalise ?
Our principle, then, as to Irish Church mat-
ters, is not that of Sir James Graham ; or that still more
naively stated the other day by the Herat!. The
Herald said that " Peace between the two contending
(ecclesiastical) parties (in Ireland) is morally impos-
sible. Away, then, with all false pretences and delu-
sive hopes of this kind ! Let the question be
-reduced to its simplest and only intelligible
form—that the mere majority of the people of any
country, ne matter how ignorant or how superstitious,
ought to prescribe what the faith of that country shall
be ; and that to maintain a particular form of religion,
merely because it is true and divine, is an act of bigotry,
and an exhibition of religious intolerance." We are
quite of the Herald's opinion that peace between the
two Church parties in Ireland is impossible ; so long
as either have material objects to defend, or obtain,
which they think worth straggling for. But the He-
rald's idea that the faith of a people is not to be at all
consulted in prescribing the faith of a country, that
people who think differently are to decide what is
true and divine instead, is precisely the assumption which
(if nothing else) would deter us from turning Roman
Catholics. That the Roman Church makes that as-
sumption is sufficient to keep us out of it—but in Pro-
testants we look upon it as quite preposterous and
suicidal. "What, then, is the principle on which we
should proceed in the Irish Church question? It ap-
pears to us a very simple one—that of cutting down
the real matter of contention. Sir James Graham con-
tends for continued preference of the Protestant Church.
To this we say that a Protestant Church is very well
among a Protestant people, It is even very well among
a Catholic people—provided it is not preferred. We
would not unteach Roman Catholics the lesson that they
cannot expel Protestantism from their country. We
would not knuckle under to their ascendancy. We
should think it worse than the present—worse in all
respects except one—that it would at least express
the popular opinion, and therefore would not remind
the people of conquest and degradation. We do net
wish to attach to this sentiment more weight than really
belongs to it. We do not believe, and bave seen no
proof, that the Protestant clergy are particularly un-
popular, since the conversion of' tithe has removed them
from collision with their parishioners. But they are not
the clergy of the bulk of the population ; and there-
fore the avowal of political preference for them is the
avowal of preference for an institution professedly in-
tended for the bulk of the population, and rational pre-
ference for which can only be founded on its fulfilling
that intention. Substitute N for R, and instead of ra-
tional preference you have national preference. But
what has our national preference to do with the Church
of the Irish people ? What has the choice of a Church
for another people to do with political union with that
people ? Sir James Graham says everything. We say
nothing ; and worse than nothing. It is a topic of dis-
union. That churches will not be fought against in
these days we indeed believe ; but will they be fought
for ? Tha Herald affirms they will ; and that the people
of England are quite ready, if necessary, to do battle in
the cause of the Irish Establishment. But mark the much
less enthusiastic tone of Lord Eliot:—" There were agi-
tators in Ireland who would not be satisfied with any
measure short of the actual subversion of the Church,
and he did not believe that that House, or any Parlia-
ment that might be summoned in this country, would
consent to a total subversion of the Protestant Church."
Nothing short, then, of the total subversion of the Pro-
testant Church appears to Lord Bliot likely much to stag-
ger the Parliament or the public. Now that is just our opin-
ion too. And the sort of proposition we should found on
it would be the division of Irish Church revenues among
the three principal communions, Romish, Anglican,
and Presbyterian—and the equal division—as likely
1; be attended with least dispute and difficulty. Lord
John Russell indicated the policy of some such set-
tlement ; but it is not upon his, or any other party
stathority, that we throw out the above sugges-
tion. That suggestion is founded on the view which
seems to have prompted former measures—so far as they
went—the view, namely, of diminishing the odium of
the endowed and ascendant Church, by diminishing its
ascendancy, and paring down its endowments. We
and the exclusive
endowment altogether ; and when there Is no bone of
contention between sects, big enough to be worth wor
e•-
ryin one another for, we shall expect them—not, in-
deed,' to cease quarrelling, but to cease disturbing the
state with their quarrels.
STANDARD.—The dabs re the state of Ireland
IfftS resumed last night in the House of Commons, and
again adjourned. The commencement of the discussion
was unusually heavy, but it improved regularly in in-
terest with the last three speeches—Mr. Young's, Sir
George Grey's, and, above all, Lord Eliot's, which was
really excellent. But, after all, what remains to
be said, upon the state of Ireland, that has not
been said a thousand times ? or what practical
remedy for Irish evils can be proposed that is not al-
ready in active operation, or the necessary preparations
for which are not earnestly pressed forward by the Go-
vernment ? The Opposition speakers are, therefore,
Limited to vague common-places, or to querulous and
• very unjust accusations; but they can propose no-
thing definite, and they can prove nothing wrong.
Their speeches, therefore, necessarily amount to nothing,
And to be obliged to read, or listen to, hours of spoken
';thing, is very wearisome. The Conservatives have a
great advantage in this respect, for though such "special
nothing " is dull in itself, very pleasant commentaries in
verse or prose may be made upon it, as one of
" The poets of Charles's days,
The mob of gentlemen who wrote with ease,"
shlwn, and we doubt whether the verses of the p,et
in question upon " the elder brother even to shade," are
better in their way than the speeches of Sir James
Graham and Lord Eliot, in reply to Lord John Russell
And Company. Something must be done for Ire-
3luttl, say the Whigs and the ultra-wise Conservatives.
Softly, gentlemen, we say. Suppose one of your-
selves thrown into a fever by bodily or mental exer-
tion ; what do you think is the first thing that a skilful
physician would order in your case ? Would he physic
you while still rolling in a rumbling diligence over
the paved road of the Continent, or leave the
pen in your hand, and the midnight lamp
before you, while applying cupping-glasses and
blisters ? No ; you are well aware that the first
thing he would order is rest—rest which would probably
work a cure by itself—rest, without which all
other means of relief would be undoubtedly in-
effectual. Before you prescribe your nostrums
for Ireland, then, would it not be just as
well to try what may be the effect of that
rest wfii.ch the Government has won for her, more par-
ickularly as no two of you are agreed upon the proper
nostrum ? How that rest has been won will be seen in
an article which we have copied from the Morning
Herald of this day ; the article is long, but we entreat
that it may be carefully read, not merely as a complete
vindication of the Attorney-General for Ireland, and
of the Government which has the honour of having
selected and supported such an officer, but as a vindi-
cation of the British Constitution itself. Peace, has at
length been won for Ireland. The Repeal Association is
already melting away. Mr. O'Connell absents himself
upon one false pretence ; for what business has he
here, after having sworn that he would not set his
foot in the Saxon Parliament ? The newspaper pro-
prietors withdraw on another false pretence, for it is
not true that their newspapers were made evidence
against the conspiracy because they were implicated;
;heir newspapers were made evidence against the con-
viracy, because the conspirators in a corporate cha-
racter circulated these newspapers at their own charge,
and hi that way these newspapers would be evi-
dence, though the name of a single person connected
with them did not appear upon the books of the conspi-
racy. Thus, the monster nuisance has been abated,
and still we are told that nothing has been done ; and
we are stunned with projects, the only possible effect of
?urging which, besides disturbing the present peace,
imust be to call into existence another like monster
miganee.

The Duke of WELLINGTON gave notice of the inten-
tion of the Government to introduce a Bill, in the course of
the present session, on the subject of Turnpike Trusts. All the
Reports on the subject not having been received, the Bill could
not be introduced immediately.
STATE OF IRELAND.—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the motion for resuming the adjourned debate,
Earl FORTESCUE rose, and said that he understood a
statement had been made in another place which affected
him personally, and also the character of the Go.
GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY vernment, at whose head he was in Ireland. A
person high in office had stated that, within three
COMPANY. months before the late Government went out of office, seven
The half-yearly general meeting of the Proprietors of this stipendiary magistrates had been appointed in addition to the
Company was held at the Paddington Station this day, at one existing establishment of stipendiary magistrates in Ireland.
o'clock, Mr. C. Russell, M.P., in the chair. The meeting, as Before he proceeded further he begged to inform their Lord-
stated in the notice, was made special, &c., for the purpose of ships that he alone was responsible for those appointments.
.considering and authorising the Directors to make application The Government with which he had been connected had no-
-to Parliament, in the present session, to alter and enlarge thing to do with them. On reference to the official documents,
the powers of any Act or Acts relating to this Company, or to he found it was perfectly correct that seven new appointments
-the Cheltenham and Great Western Union Railway Company, were made between the 15th of June and the 28th of August,
or to
the Oxford Railway Company, as well as the propriety of 1841. It was not, however, true that these appointments
joining or becoming parties with any other person or persons in were made in addition to the existing number of stipendiary
applying to Parliament for a Bill for making a railway from the magistrates. During the time he had mentioned three
Great Western Railway at Pangbourne to the town of New- vacancies occurred, and those vacancies were filled up. That
-bury, or of agreeing with any person or persons who shall apply left four out of the seven. Of those four, one was appointed
to Parliament for such Bill, as to the expenses of such a
appr - in the city of Armagh, at the earnest request of Lord Gosford,
'tion, or of the construction of such railway, or for taking in consequence of a dreadful murder that was committed in the
lease or use of such railway when made, upon such terms and neighbourhood. Another was sent to Tralee, in consequence of
conditions as may seem proper.
The Ciastemmi said, the Directors would perceive by the dthisepufitshesecrornnetiiiniu.naltlhyeocnceuigrrhibnugu,
rwhhnindch.terHm.
einta.hteeduiwn
was
sriotespapumozesdt
-accounts that the receipts for the last half year amounted to to a wild coast district in Donegal, in consequence of
377,7971., whilst those for the corresponding half year disturbances having taken place between the people and
in 1842 amounted only to 359,376/. During that interval the
urteanue police. He did not exactly recollect why their line had been extended eight miles and three quarters. the
As these were The inerease in the receipts, therefore, was more than propor- ment madeevireasteeointed, but he knew that the appoint-
to the increase of distance.—(Cheers. ) A reduction f
utust
theto
ftee equally
case, h
he
urgenttruste d
thatcircumstances.
this
wuuld
turn to the •
had been effected in that portion of the expenedxitpuernediotuvreer bHeeawsuuuffi
ldcinennwt answertur statement made in another. place.
which the Directors had control. The
immediate subject under discussion.
for the last half year of 1842 was 129,417/. ; that He could not agree with those who said that this motion of his
/or 'the last half year of 1843, 129,4361. This, at Noble Friend was ill timed. No one could doubt the
&rat sight would show no reduction of expenditure ; but it importance, and its importance, he conceived
was a
must be borne in mind, first, that in the latter period they had sufficient justification for its full and immediate consideration.
ibeen working nine miles more than in the preceding one, and He stated that much of the excitement of the people arose. km;
secondly, that there was a portion of the expenditure the attempts made to restrain the franchise. But for those
I I
over which they could exercise no control. The attempts, these great meetings would not, in all probability,
•cluty, rates, and taxes, for the last half-year of 1842, have been held. He cited the large amount of the repeal rent,
.amounted to 19,223/., those for the corresponding period in during the last year, compared with former years, as a proof
k 1843 to 26,6291., showing an increase in those charges ,of the great discontent of the people. He felt bound
<of 7,40 W. The expenditure being equal, it followed ;to render a due meed of praise to Mr. O'Connell for the
Quit the decrease in the charges of the establish-i manly stand which be made against the propagation of

the doctrines which were endeavoured to be spread t hroughe
out Ireland by the Chartists. During the time when
( the Earl of Fortescue) was Lord-Lieutenant, the amount of
the repeal rent was scarcely more than 2001. for e ach week,
but during the Administration of the present Government, it
had risen to nearly 2,0001., Mr. O'Connell had refused t accept
the highest situation which had been offered to him, bu in the
instance of his son's appointment he (the Earl of F o rtescue)
would say that Mr. O'Connell never made the ht gt
application. On the subject of the Irish Clgurch
he theught that there could be but one opih h
After some further observations, which were quite inaunib! .
the Noble Lord concluded, as we understood him,by a isclu,
that the present discussions might tend to the benefit
welfare of Ireland. As he sat down, some Noble Lord m j s
that the House proceed to the Order of the Day.—(Laught h
Lord HADDINGTON said the Noble Lord complao
of a statement that had been made elsewhere, of the dismii ed
of the stipendiary magistrates in Ireland. It had been staner,
that the Government removed ten of them, and it was e
order to defeni the Government from that charge that cad
statement was made. The number of stipendiary magistra.s
in the early part of 1841 was 59, and between June and
28th of August, that being the day on which the No u
Viscount opposite (Lord Melbourne) left office. As sooneq
the present Government:came into office, those seven wv
removed, reducing the number again to fifty-nine, t 4
being the number for which the House of Commons had g;n
a vote. At present there were sixty, being one more stipe ndit
magistrate than in 1839, 1840, and up to the 15th June, 18ra
He did not think therefore that her Majesty's present Govea
meat were liable to the imputations which had been ;
tempted to be cast upon them of setting aside stipendiary in
gistrates for party purposes.
(LEFT SPEAKING')

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the chair at Four &Clock.
NEW MEMBERS.

Mr. SOTUERON, for North Wiltshire, and Mr. MAHER, for
Tipperary, took the oaths and their seats. The Hon. Members
were introduced by Mr. M. J. O'Connell and Mr. Estcourt.
Mr. WATSON presented a petition from a number of soli-
citors in the metropolis, complaining of the high amount of
compensation given to the six clerks' whose offices, in the
Court of Chancery, were abolished under the late Act, and
praying the House to take the subject into its consideration.