The Sun.
London, England, 1868-04-04 00:00:00

MOH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE.

fins DA'.—Morning, 11h. 45m.—Afternoon, Oh. Om.
ro-2tionnow.-Morning, Oh. 17m.—Afternoon, Oh. 45m.

;--
tVit it-•*•*e. Stitt
4464 WO

LONDON, SATURDAY, APRIL 4, 1868.

The result of the debate last night will not surprise
those who were well up in affairs, because it was
becoming evident to all that the Liberals were tired
of the cold shade of Opposition, and determined to
make a desperate venture of some sort or other.
Far from believing that the cause of the Irish
Church inspired Mr. GLADSTONE and his followers,
and made them resolve at all hazards to try their
chance, we believe that had there been no question
of this kind before the public they would have
found something else upon which to test the strength
of the Government. It bad been said that this
session was to be devoted to business, in order to
make up for the time inevitably lost on the Reform
question, and to pave the way for the new Parlia-
ment ; but such a course ill-suited the energetic
spirit that always animates certain minds in
Opposition. We cannot see that Mr. GLADSTONE
has done himself much honour, or rendered any
signal service to his party by the line he has taken.
As for inconsistency no one knew what his views
on the subject of the Irish Church were until the
close of the debate on Ireland a week or two ago.
Since then he has rallied his forces, consolidated his
powers, and rushed on to the contest. Had he
waited a few short months, and then put forward
his views in a new Parliament, no one could have
found any fault, but the course he has taken has
has been most premature, and he has con-
fused things and interfered with the business of the
House in a manner not justified by circumstances.
Mr. DISRAELI'S long speech was quite worthy of
his reputation, and lie spoke on the complicated
subject before him with as much success as could
have been anticipated. First of all, he showed that
the Government had had no wish to evade the
struggle, or to take advantage of circumstances so as
to prevent the House from discussing it. At the
same time, they did not meet the proposal with a
direct negative, because they did not think that
no improvement was called for in Ireland, and
they by no means affirm that no " change, no mo-
dification, nor improvement is necessary, expedient,
or desirable in the condition of the Church of Ire-
land." The right hon. gentleman very ably de-
fended the amendment, and showed how unwise it
was to explain one's policy too much in that kind of
thing, quoting the illustrious example of the late
Sir ROBERT PEEL, who never approved of so doing
in his extended experience.
The inconsistency which Mr. GLADSTONE has dis-
played could not have been better shown than it
was by Mr. DISRAELI, and he argued very truly
that, when this Parliament was elected, Lord
PALMEIISTON and his colleagues did not con-
template any speedy settlement of this dif-
ficulty of the Irish Church. The most
devoted advocate for the policy of disendowment
cannot say that it is not a strange coincidence that
the leader of the Opposition should have found it
so convenient to come to a conclusion about the
Irish Church policy just when Reform had been
taken out of his hands. The extremely personal
tone which the debate assumed after Lord CRAN-
BORNE had set the style was very properly answered
by Mr. DISRAELI, and he exhibited his usual dex-
terity in commenting upon the attacks of the noble
lord, the member for Stamford, and of the member
for Caine. Nothing was a more perfect definition
of the noble lord than to say that there was one
thing he never pardoned, and that was the Reform
Act of last year. As for Mr. LowE, his eagerness
with regard to the point of " reciprocal indignity"
was effectively described by one who has no in-
ferior in the act of Parliamentary fencing. Mr.
DISRAELI declared that he had no intention of
troubling the House with a vindication of his career
and character, on which the right hon. gentleman
had been " extremely exuberant " in his comments
in the course of his speech the other night. " I
have lived in this llouse more than thirty years,
and can truly say that during that time comments
on my character and career have been tolerably

free. Sir, my jury is the history of my life, and this
Is not the place in which it is necessary to vindicate
my character." Towards the close of his speech
Mr. DISRAELI spoke with great force upon the im-
possibility of halting in the career indicated by
Mr. GLADSTONE, and adduced the cases of Scotland
and Wales. He asked the right hon. gentleman
if he was prepared for the ultimate consequences of
the policy he had taken up ; there was Scotland to
consider, there was Wales, and who could tell that
the hon. memberfor Birmingham, " that great master
of the mind of the member for South Lancashire,"
would ever take the census returns, and show from
them that the union between Church and State in
this country could not be maintained according to
the statistical documents in his hand.

Mr. GLADSTONE'S reply was unnecessarily long,
considering the circumstances of the case and the
lateness of the hour, but he would most likely have
been disappointed not to explain himself to the
House. It may well be asked, as Lord STANLEY
said, What next, and next ? What is the object
that Mr. GLADSTONE has set before himself ? If it
had been " tardy justice" to Ireland that could
have easily been gained by his leaving the discus-
sion of the subject until next year. As
for satisfying the just expectations of his
party that can hardly be the pretext put
forward, because their followers could
not themselves have said that he was in favour of
disendowment at the beginning of the Session.
What then was the primary motive—the enforcing
principle of these Resolutions, to damage the Minis-
try, to get a good cry at the elections, or what ?
At any rate, the attempt has succeeded, and what
will be the result ? Will. the Liberals, if in office'
fulfil the fears of Mr. ROEBUCK and do nothing,
or will they declare that their cause has triumphed?
If they do it may be retorted that it is a cause to
which their leader has only just become a convert,
and that under very peculiar circumstances, to say
the least of it. It is always to be regretted
when a question of this kind is made the
subject of controversy, and so mixed up with party
spirit. If the new Parliament bad been allowed to
deal with it, how much better it would have been.
They would have been more competent to take up
the matter from the beginning than the present
House can possibly be. For wasting the time of
the Session the Opposition have much to answer
for. One thing may be said, and that is, the Go-
vernment have not said they are against any reform
or change in the Irish Church Establishment ; and
that must be remembered, because, in the excite-
ment of the affair, their opponents are too apt
to misstate the case, and, while making
themselves appear all right, they would
fain show that others are all wrong. The
country will look at the matter in the right
light, and recognise the awkward position in which
Mr. DISRAELI has been placed in having to face a
question unexpectedly starting up before him in
sudden strength and energy, and admit that, if be
has not acquiesced in their extreme views, be has
' not exhibited the extreme spirit which at one time
was too much the appanage of his party.

The House of Lords has sufficient leisure to
spare from the consideration of domestic politics
to discuss the affairs of other nations, and Lord
STRATIIEDEN last evening brought under the
notice of their lordships the correspondence re-
specting the disturbances in Crete. The note of
Russia and France communicated to the Turkish
Government at the end of October last was dis-
approved of by the English Government, and it
was spoken off by FUAD PASHA as a direct in-
centive to rebellion. The Duke of ARGYLL
censured the Government very strongly for not
having assisted in removing the non-combatants
from Crete, but his view of the case was not sup-
ported by Earl RUSSELL, who fully approved of
the conduct of Lord STANLEY. The removal of
these persons had, he said, been a very question-
able benefit to them, and many of them were now
starving in Greece instead of earning a living in
their own country. The removal of non-combatants
too could hardly be said to be altogether a neutral
act, inasmuch as it afforded great relief to the com-
batants, and assisted them to prolong the contest.
Lord MALMESBURY, indeed, stated that the Go-
vernment had received a copy of 'a petition signed
by many hundreds of the fugitives, praying that
they might be allowed to return quietly to the
island, so that they evidently had not bettered their
condition by removing elsewhere. The ill-usage or
oppression of the Christians in Crete is said to have
been altogether overrated. Am PASHA, whowas com-
manding the island when the insurrection broke
out, appears by all accounts to be an amiable and
enlightened though somewhat weak Governor, who
willingly sanctioned the erection of schools, hospi-
tals, and churches. The real point at issue is not
the autonomy of Crete, but the integrity of the
Turkish empire ; and so long as we are prepared to
support the Turkish Government in Europe we can
hardly sanction the alienation of any past of it
through the interference of other Powers. Lord
RUSSELL said that if we had joined in the identical
Note and counsels given to the Porte by other
European Powers we could not have shut our eyes
to the ultimate views of those Powers, and to the
fact that they meant, however courteously they
might express themselves, to aim a blow at the in-
tegrity of the Turkish empire. "If that blow is
given," added the noble lord, " if Crete is sepa-
rated from Turkey because there is an insurrec-
tion there, who will tell me that there will not be
persons who will be skilful in getting up insurrec-
tions in other Christian provinces of Turkey, and
that the same advice may not be repeated next year
and the year after in order to separate one pro-
vince after another from the dominion of the Turk-
sh Government." The presence of the Turks in
Europe may be an anomaly, but it is not easy for
England to sanction the dismemberment of an ex-
isting State by the great Powers. We have seen
mischief enough follow the partition of Denmark in
our time to make us careful how we sanction the
repetition of so hazardous and tyrannical an expe-
riment.

The detailed account of the War in the River
Plate, which has now reached us, would seem to
indicate that the triumph of the Allies is not so con-
clusive as was supposed. The loss on each side,
after the encounter on land, was great, being about
600 men. The Brazilian account, indeed, says that
the losses in killed, wounded, and prisoners
amounted to 1,600 men, but we must accept their
estimate cunt grano sails. At the same time the
capture of Hutnaita is, of course, a great success to
the Allies, and a heavy loss to the Paraguayans,
and the capture of the redoubt on the same day is
another disadvantage. The accounts which are as
yet given state that on the 17th of February three
Monitors passed Curupaity, and on the 19th six
ironclads succeeded in forcing thepassage:of
the ships being much battered, but none lost, and
that ten men were wounded. On the same day the
Marquis of CAxIAS stormed a redoubt to the north
of llumaita, taking 15 cannon and a quantity of
stores. Two days later three ironclads steamed on
to Assuncion, and found that place and all river
towns abandoned. Eleven thousand men were to
march thither. We hear nothing of the movements

of the Paraguayans, who will certainly not sur-
render their independence without a struggle, and
it is possible that LOPEZ may yet make a sudden
move to the discomfiture of his opponents. Mean-
while, whatever the successes of the Allies, dis-
affection is rife throughout the country :generally.
The other day we received news of discontent in
Buenos Ayres. Now we have the account of a
revolution at Monte Video. The BLANCO party
rose under BERRO; General FLORES wasmurdered by
eleven stabs. MANuEL FLORES and twenty of his
friends died suddenly under suspicion of poison.
Reprisals were made by the population and by the
troops which remained faithful. BERRO was shot,
General BATTLE elected President, and order re-
stored. The occurrence, however, is significant,
and shows that all the States of South America are
in a disturbed and unsettled condition. Brazil her-
self may well take heed, for should the flames of
disaffection once be kindled, the Imperial Govern-
ment may find it a harder matter to retain her
supremacy than Paraguay does to resist the imposi-
tion of a foreign yoke.

MR. GLADSTONE AND MS IRISH
CHURCH NOTION.

TO THE EDITOR OF TIIE SUN.

Stet,—Well! the Opposition are true and faithful
to their principles, and these principles are death-
bed repentances and dernier resorts. They must
certainly have a strong craving for what is called in
the legal profession the fag end of an old lease.
Just this time two years ago they brought in a Re-
form Bill, when, as I have oftentimes remarked to
you, they were actually in the struggle between
life and death, having shelved the cause of reform
for nearly seven years. All people saw, during the
last nineallonths of the existence of the late Minis-
try—i.e., between October, 1865, when the late
Lord Palmerston died and Lord Russell became
Prime Minister, and July, 1866, when they were
actually driven from office—that the SVhig Minis-
try was on its last legs, and in fact was in a dying
state. All people and all parties saw that
its days were numbered, and that it could
not long survive. During this hopeless
struggle the -Whig party brought in their
Reform Bill, just as an invalid or dying person en-
deavours to restore his health and appetite by a
dose of quinine, gentian, orange peel, or some other
good and powerful tonic. Alas! alas ! however, for
the poor, old, worn-out, time-worn concern of a
Ministry, its system and whole constitution was too
far gone, and was by far too much impaired by the
ravages of time for any medicines to be of any avail.
It had lived more than its time, and I fear was not
about to sleep in blessings. It is oftentimes adangerous
and hazardous thing for a man to attempt to be his
own doctor. And soit;proved in this case. The lonely
Whig Ministry, which had governed the country so
beautifully for nearly seven years, was defeated, and
had to resign. People must indeed be silly who
allow others to doctor them who are and have
evinced an utter incapacity to doctor themselves.
And I candidly avow that within the whole range
of political history there is not to be found upon
record such an instance of unscrupulous factious-
ness or daring profligacy as the motions of Mr.
Gladstone's now in debate before the House.
I put the same question I have so often put with
regard to .the Reform Bill. Why, if the Established
Protestant Church in Ireland was such a real stand-
ing grievance, why, I ask, has no Whig Ministry
ever proposed its abolition? The Whigs, or Libe-
rals, as they now, and for many years, have been in
the habit of designating themselves, have for nearly
40 years, with but, comparatively speaking, a few
years' intermission, held the reins of office, and
never once during the whole of that long period did
they ever seriously propose the abolition of the
Irish Protestant State Church. No, they waited
until the fag end of a moribund doomed Parlia-
ment, which all parties know has not, and cannot,
have another year's existence. It is altogether of
apiece with the rest of their conduct now and for
the last 25 or 30 years. They never bring any
really good and useful measure forward until they
are actually on their death-bed, or waited until their
Parliament is in this position. I will just give you a
proof of this during the last 30 years. In 1841,
just before they were so ignominiously hurled
from office by the late Sir Robert Peel, Lords
Melbourne and John Russell proposed to throw
open all the ports, and Lord John Russell
proposed an Bs. fixed duty on corn, both, in many
respects, very good measures no doubt. But why,
i pray, when the Melbourne-Russell Bedchamber
Ministry had been for upwards of six years in office,
had they never thought of or even attempted such
a reform before ? Again, once more, to go over my
oft-travelled and traversed ground, why was a Re-
form Bill never even so much as mentioned or heard
o f until
1866,
thought whent
proper,he when
Russell-Gladstone Admi-
nistration
had in
opposition,
to turn out the Ministry of Lord Derby in the
Democratic and
summer of 1859, on a most sensible Reform
Bill, because, in their eyes and estima-
d
trieovno,lutiitnnay ? wasr Andnot nowsufficiently
Irish Church question brought forward at the fag
endofan old Parliament, ent
and most and
disgraceful reckless, factious,
position, who, having tried every dirty trick
liam
os
b isygr a
Op-
worthless,
and subterfuge in their power, and when one
manoeuvre after another has failed, have now
pounced upon poor old, ill-used, and irritated
Pat to fly to their rescue. But I shall hope and
trust Pat has too much sense and sagacity to be
gulled by such miserable sophistry. Roman
Catholics of Great Britain, England, Ireland, and
Scotland, aristocracy, gentry, and people ! be not
deceived, put not your trust
.again in Whiggery,
and be not betrayed for the second time within half
a century, for half a century is but a brief period,
historically speaking, however long it may be for
other purposes. Forty years ago the Whigs were
fighting hard for Catholic Emancipation, in order
to suit their own party purposes. They then
stormed and raved at all the wrongs and evils the
Catholic party had had to endure for a long series
of years ; and now please let us turn over the
leaf, and see what was their subsequent
conduct towards this (according to their
own showing) ill-used and persecuted body.
I must get you and your readers to travel back to
the years 1833 and 1834, the days of the late Earl
Grey's Ministry, the so-called Father of Reform,
now much more generally speaking. As I admire
that Government, and think it deserves the thanks
and admiration of posterity for the useful reforms
which it carried, and their name is legion ; never-
theless it is not to be denied that its language
towards Ireland and the Irish generally was per-
fectly disgusting, and I freely forgive the late
Daniel O'Connell, when he called them " The base,
brutal, and bloody Whigs." And who I should be
glad to know joined O'Connell in his cry against
the then Whig Government, and was the pet of
Daniel O'Connell, and was regarded as part of his
party ? Why no one more nor less than Benjamin
Disraeli, Esq., our present Premier, who stood in
this very year 1833, thirty-five years ago, for Mary -
lebone, in favour of annual Parliaments, vote by
ballot, and universal suffrage. And who was it in
the same Ministry, and in the same last-named
year, who proved himself the belt friend of
Ireland and the Irish Roman Catholics ?
Why no one more nor less than our late
Prime Minister Derby,
Lord then Mr. Secretary
Stanley, Secretary for Ireland, who, as I have
often reminded you, terrified and alarmed the High-
Church Anglican party of those days by supress-
ing no fewer than 10 Irish Protestant bishoprics.
Now can any sine person entertain the least doubt
that had Lord Derby (then Mr. Stanley) remained
Irish Secretary (after such a sweeping mea-
sure of Reform as he carried in 1833) that the
Irish Protestant Church would have been re-
, formed or else abolished long, long ago ? I will
now travel into more modern times, and show what
has been the conduct of the Whigs towards their
Roman Catholic fellow subjects during the last 21
years. In 1847 Lord Russell, who had just become
Prime Minister, expressly excluded and excepted the
Roman Catholics front Wing any participation in

the education grant of that year; and last, not least,
three years later, in 1850, same his famous Dur-
hfun Letter, by which he most grossly insulted the
whole Roman Catholic body, and front which time
it was thought the - old connection between the
Whigs and the Roman Catholics was dissolved for
ever. And now, again, let Roman Catholics rest
assured the Whigs are only playing the same
game over again—i.e., they are making a cat's-paw
of the Roman Catholics to suit their own political
purposes; and let all Catholics rest assured that they
will throw them overboard again at the first profit-
able opportunity, the same as they did in 1833, 1847,
and 1850. Now the present Government does not
for one moment pretend that the Irish Protestant
Church, as it exists at present, is at all satisfactory ;
far, very far from it. It simply does not con-
sider the present the most expedient time for
the discussion of such a very serious and
momentous a question at the very fag end of
an old Parliament, and when it is merely sitting
to wind up, as the old saying is. To quote an old
proverb, "There is a time for all things," and the
present is about the very worst time that could
have been selected for the discussion of so mo-
mentous a subject as the abolition, or non-abolition,
of the Irish Protestant Church. Lord Stanley's
speech is, to my mind, utterly unanswerable.
However, should Mr. Disraeli be defeated by our
most disgraceful, reckless, and factious Oppo-
sition (I can in good truth, call them no-
thing more), let him at once carry out his
threat, and go directly to the country, by which he
will, I trust, obtain an overwhelming majority. I
can quote several occasions in which,. since the be-
ginning of the century, we had general elections
within a year of each other. In the autumn of
1806 there was a general election ; and again in six
months time, in the spring of 1807, upon the down-
fall of the Broad-Bottomed Government, and the
celebrated No-Popery election of the last-named
year. Also in July, 1830, Parliament was dis-
solved by the death of George IV. and the acces-
sion of William IV., and in the spring of the fol-
lowing year it was dissolved again to try the sense
of the country on the then pending discussions of
the old Reform Bill.—l remain, Sir, your faithful
servant,
A LOVER AND OBSERVER OF HISTORICA.I.
DATES AND FACTS.
April 2, 1868.

LATEST INTELL MENGE,

• (REUTER'S TELEGRAMS.)

INDIA.

BOMBAY, March 14.

The Viceroy has ruled that the covenanted civil
servants being required under the new system to
pass their vernacular examination before their de-
parture from England, they will be entitled to their
full salary from the date of their reporting their
arrival at Bombay. _ _ _

Sir Richard Temple has been nominated Secre-
tary of the Order of the Star of India.
It will be notified that the increased rate of
postage will come into force on the Ist April. A
very strong feeling has been created on the subject
throughout India. _ _

CALCUTTA, March 7th (via Trieste.)

The Lieutenant-Governor of Bengal has re-
quested the opinions of the commissioners of the
divisions relative to the practicability of levying an
educational cess upon the entire population for the
purpose of providing funds to carry out a compre-
hensive system of vernacular education.
The reports of the result of the late rice harvest
in Bengal are very favourable. The price of rice
is low, and the prospects of the new crops are
good. _ _

Stevens' exploring party from British Burmah
reached Bhamo on the 21st January on their way
to the frontiers of Western China. Sir William
Muir has been sworn in Lieutenant-Governor of the
North-West Provinces, vacated by the retirement
of Mr. Drummond.

INDIA, CHINA, AND JAPAN MAILS.
MARSEILLES, April 4.
The Tanjore arrived at 6 a.m. to-day. The mails
Leave for London at 11.30 a.m.

SuEz, March 27.

Advices from Annesloy Bay announce that the
3d Dragoons had left for headquarters by forced
marches. The railway is now complete for a dis-

tance of eleven miles.

Lady Lawrence arrived here on the 26th inst. on
her way to England.
The Feroze went ashore twenty miles from Suez
at midnight on the 24th, but has been got off, and
has since arrived here.

ALEXANDRIA, April 1.

Her Majesty's Indian steam transport Malabar
arrived at Suez on the 30th ult. with the 94th and
drafts of other Regiments. The troops left for
England to-day in the Crocodile.
Important changes are expected in the Egyptian
Ministry.

AME RICA.

WASHINGTON, April 3.

The Impeachment Managers produced to-day
before the Senate Court as testimony against Pre-
sident Johnson several of his speeches, in which he
denounced the action of Congress.