The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-26 00:00:00

was more good among the labourers of tla's count
than, any other upon the face of the earth, bk3callsbio
they had not, Noble Lords on that, and Honeudrs.fe
Members on the other side of the House, would
ri
t'aem mad.—(Great laughter.)
Mr. V. SMITH would not take three days to bie
sever the observations of the Right
Baronet, although he had done so to answer, I,d;
He would explain to the House what he real* rat
said. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated tuvr
he (Mr. V. Smith) had asserted that the Poer-la
would be the resource of those driven out of the factrortY:
and that high wages were productive of iminera
Now, the Right Hon. Gentleman had most grievs,flibe
Honotuabis.
misrepresented him. What he said was, thaywo
poor-law was a provision for those poor peotle
c_.
could not possibly themselves obtain a subsisten of
He had not said that crime was the caosequene/100.
high wages in the sense stated by the It 1,511 t
Baronet, but that high wages being dispropoir to
and unusual were generally the cause of dissiPautA
the recipients. The reason of this was, that "
-wages were generally conferred upon hard-avorkersel
over exertion prolueed excitement, and excitenie_,
stimulated men to the use of strong liquor, and strog,
liquor led to immorality.—(Hear, hear.) That Lt:
was the sense in which he used the phrase " 1"to,
wages," and he appealed to any Hon. Member
had heard him.—(Hear, hear, from the Tory ate'
hers.) That such was the effect of high wages
.;0
those who received them, he appealed to any Pelr,
conversant with the condition of the inanufacturwe.
districts, and to the Report of the Children's EmPli
ment Commission. In that report the Revetro
Alexander Gilmour, minister of the Presbyteri,a
Congregation in Greenock, said that high el
would promote intemperance rather than comfort.
Hall, of Wolverhampton, before the same Committee'',
stated that the best workmen were the oftenest dram
from the same reason ; he said such men were Hon,
a whole week together drunk. The Right P
Gentleman was unable to support his version of;
(Mr. V. Smith's) speech by any report of it in ,113-
newspaper in the kingdom. He very much regre'',,aa
the determination to which the Government 07,
come—(Hear, hear)—and the thought the Right libewi
Gentleman would not in his cooler moments say
an hour's labour a day less than at present would
the ruin of the country, which seemed to be ins
c()/1‘
sistent with good sense and experience.—(flear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was very sorry the t o
Hon. Gentleman had felt himself bound to say thas
(Sir J. Graham) had put words into his mouth.
thing, he could assure the House, was farther from 1,5
intention. He had taken a note of the Hon. Gentleinali
words at the time he spoke them, and he certailli;
did understand him to say that high wages 15.
productive of immorality and vice in the factory'
ch
tricts ; and the report of the Hon. Gentleman's sPtch
in the Morning Chronicle agreed with the notes gne,
he had taken,and which he had stated to the o°,ll.tio
The Right Hon. Baronet then proceeded to roarer,
extract from the Morning Chronicle, but was i,11,401.
rupted by cries of " Order" from the Opposite
The Right Hon. Gentleman appealed to the SPesoi
whether or not he was in order. It was a pert° be
matter—it affected him personally—and as 511% to
put it to the House whether he had not a rir,
explain and defend himself.—(Loud cries of “0/00.
hear.") After reading the extract the Right 40.
Baronet said that although there was such a etufho
cidence between his statement and the report e,' clod
Hon. Gentleman's speech in the newspaper ehu the
to, still, as the Hon. Gentleman had diselaimeuaer.
observations in the sense in which they. were 11100•
stood by him, he would of course give toe
ttite
Gentleman full credit for his explanation, and ,Was q
willing to believe that he had misunderstood Os,' 0
Sir ROBERT INGLIS was anxious,, isbad
friendly spirit, to observe upon one phrase which of
been used by his Right Hon. Friend the Secretartere
State for the Home Department. He said tht
were three courses which were op ,
en for the Geveoo
ment to recommend to the House, and the 11110
Hon. Gentleman maintained those three courses
full possession of his faculties and temper—(A
—recommended a particular course which he could
not then stop to examine ; but he would ash
Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of her Maies
Government, whether he considered the exc,oda
sion used by the Right Hon. Gentleman WI hid
those Members on that side of the House 'Orb°
supported the Noble Lord were just and proper.
..„0
wished to know, whether the Right Hon. Gentle6ao
and the Cabinet adopted the phrase "JaCk Goa-
course of Legislation" used by the Right Hon. 5 or
tleman in reference to the twenty-three Member
that House who had been almost the consistent ;510
porters of the present Government since they ;Ton,
into office. He put the question to his Right go
Friend (Sir R. Peel), he need not use any effeelos•
expression, nor apply any epithet nor say ani;'a
which might engender bad feeling ; but woul
ea-
down by asking if the Government adopted the
pressions of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secrets*
of State for the Home Department.
Sir J. GRAHAM rose, apparently labonril
under some excitement, and said—l used the pin,
pause)—l am answerable for it, and withro,
mission to the House, I will answer the Right mse,
Gentleman, or, if he will allow me to call hie' the
my Right Hon. Friend. Notwithstanding,o„ht
Ifriendly spirit"—(A laugh)—in which rnY ,Tao
Hon. Friend put the question, I must say tts to
did not act quite fairly in attempting to magat
Cabinet responsible for my words, for ',Eaans
Hon. Friend very well knew that, for exPre7:shi•
used in the heat of debate by a member of the 0.
net, all the members of the Cabinet are not resreo.
sible7-none but the member of it who used t to,
That phrase does not affect, and has no reference „a
any deliberations here or elsewhere. When lin 0
the phrase, I distinctly stated that I had read ittea
newspaper within forty-eight hours, and I adeP the
I hope the Right Hon. Gentleman will not carry
expression further than the words warrant. It so
used in the heat of debate, and I did not Illesilntor
disrespect to my Right Hon. Friend, or any -
Hon. Member.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir R. INGLIS said the intimacy betwees,flai
and the Right Hon. Baronet was of old stalluo-uld
and, in answer to his question, whether he Whot#l
call him friend, he candidly answered that be an
he would long call him so.—(Cheers.) His clue-fele
was to the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head,
Government, who had not answered his quest°
(Laughter, in which Sir R. Peel joined.) greP
Mr. BERNAL did not think the ehs,,ol)
lion of his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Gr.,taell
should affiliate the Government in the phrase °J;
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for the Voif,a-ot to
of Oxford complained. The Government were ":„tof
speak of the danger of invading the freed'. ft
labour, and interfering with the hours of (aefo°4
work. The principle had been acted ursales
years ago. The door had been opened to this '744
of legislation forty years ago, in the Acts regal, the
parochial apprentices. The operative classes lie or
country would not be satisfied unless the Ineasti.Ths
the Noble Lord were carried into operation. torte
Government had called for reports • those trejet?
showed the necessity for legislation. 'Medics' °cow'
ficates, and the opinions of those best entitled Osed of
fidence, clearly demonstrated the absolute 11
Parliamentary interference.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord SANDON wished to ask the Rig"'',ool(l
Gentleman if the alterations proposed by him - '
affect adult female labour ? wet to
Sir J. GRAHAM would give a decided Os ourse
the question of his Noble Friend. After the e e.
sanctioned by the House in Committee, he 1 01650
pared to say that the Government would not inc theta
its limitations adult female labourers, puttio al'
on the same footing as infant labourers had
of •
ready placed upon, deal
this
pains HINDLEY said he had taken a great this,
pains during the last fifteen years to investigarpos
subject. If the working-men got a Twelve, ottir
Bill by their own efforts, they would not rest
fled with it, but proceed farther.
roost
Mr. FERRAND said—l rise to notice a
which the Right Hon. the Secretary for the the
Department made—l allude to his application
thew Rightords"J lon. B
alekC Cade."—(Cries
tsCrreitersaocLT
fOJdheer, or „)
erte
r
flora
ber havig been called to order)— over
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he had over r/t
again, during his arguments on this sulale'aslof-
claimed the slightest intention of anything like
fensive or general application of the word. at the
Mr. FERRAND expressed his satisfaction
explanation of the Right Hon. Baronet. tiestion,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said as this le yore
was one of vast importance, he hoped the Nen adopt'
would state the course which he proposed 1:10 bee;
In this case the general principles of legislel oero
been departed from. What could be a more fe ore
principle than that children should be left to In, they
of their parents to educate andsprotect---tipla:too-
should be dependent upon paternal affection 1705 the
ing and seeing after their interests ? Such 0 far
0
principle upon which all legislation rested, 5 et to
those matters were concerned. But had they soli to
that principle ? No. They found it flees°, t ear
depart from it, and in the beginning of the las litre'
tury a man of most benevolent intentions firs! litre'
tury
a measure on the subject, and again tl!is_
ciple had been departed from, in 1833,
tion of the Right Honourable Gentleina..%ifed
posite. There was another principle illyrsoo •
Pe
in this matter, and that was, that e 5 the.
should be free to dispose of their labour
ves, to
thought would be most profitable to theinse,at to
make whatever contracts they liked with restthe
remuneration. But her Majesty's Ministers,
taPitiot
Bill now before the House, had departed fr% the
principle, and, considering this, he thought th!, 1311
had been inconsistent ; because, in the Faetorlet
of last year, they had never interfered at all
with tno:
or
hours of labour. In this debate there were twes,o9
ties—the one, who were unwilling that there su