The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-19 00:00:00

TPIE SUN, LON-0011, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 19 1644.

present—there would be a loss to the manufacturer by
the hour, which was calculated at 2/. 16s. 101 Now, if
this 2/. 16s. 104. were multiplied by 9, it would giva
251. lls. 6d., and this would be the loss of capital to
the manufacturer in a week. In his establishment 170

operatives were employed at 15s. a week, and 250 at Os.
'The weekly wages paid in the mill. amounted to 127/.
10s. fur the 170 workers at 155., and 1251. for the 250 at

.
10s., making a total of weekly wages to the amount of
2521. 10s. He had already stated that 251. I Is. 6d.
was the weekly loss, therefore the interest of the capital
bore to the weekly wages the proportion that 251. 11 s.
6d. bore to 2521. lOs , which was about one-twelfth of
the weekly wages. There could, therefore, be no ques-
tion that if twelve hours' wages-could be made by ten
hours' work, they must admit than a reduction of wages
would be commensurate with the reduction of time, and

master manufacturers would reduce the wages 1-6th.
He said one-sixth, but he would not take so high a cal-
culation. He would take the positive reduction of the
wages at one-seventh. _ He had shown that the loss of
capital from the reduction of the time by nine hours
was one-twelfth; and if one-seventh were added to one-
twelfth, the loss would be nineteen eighty-fourths on
the whole, or less than one-fourth. but considerably
more than one-fifth. He did not know that lie had
made himself clearly understood to the Committee.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed the calculation was perfectly
accurate, and he was not able to discover any fallacy in
it.—(Hear.) It was, he believed, a fair calculation, and
if that were so, it proved that the inevitable conse-
quence of passing the Noble Lord's proposition in the
present state of the commercial world, at least in the
cotton and worsted manufactures, would be a reduction
of wages less than one-fourth but greater than one-fifth.
He was bound to call the attention of the House to mat-
ters of this kind. He begged to call the attention of the
House to the opinion of Mr. Poulett Thomson, a gen-
tleman who ought to be of some authority with gentle-
men opposite.—(Hear hear.) He said, "It would be
better to have a duty of 2d. per pound imposed on the raw
cotton, than that an abridgement of the hours of labour
from twelve to ten hours should be carried into law."
The loss which it would occasion to the master
manufacturer would amount to 100/. a week.
The Honourable Member for SA ford, when
they proposed to reduce the working hours
of young persons from 13 to 12, took occasion to taunt
the Government with breaking the engagements made
under the measure of 1833. It was an arrangement;
and he only asked the Committee to maintain the com-
promise entered into between the manufacturing inte-
rest and the advocates of a Ten Hours' Bill. That was
a settlement which ought not to be disturbed.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Member for Kendal (Mr. Warburton)
put irresistibly the statement which he (Sir J. Graham)
made the other night, that the conclusion of his Noble
Friend was at variance with his facts. (Hear,
hear.) His Noble Friend made a statement with
regard to collieries and mines, similar to that
which ho made in proposing the present amendment,
but his conclusion was different; for in the former case
he proposed that females and children under twelve
years of age should be prevented from working in mines
altogether, but he shrank from coming to that con-
clusion in the present case.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord the Member for South Lancashire felt the force of
this. If this were a matter of feeling he would go along
with his Noble Friend's proposition, but when be con-
sidered the state of the manufacturing population—
assuming that he was right in his calculation that if this
Bill passed the wages of both males and females would
be reduced 25 per cent.—he was bound to ask
himself the question, " Shall we limit labour to an
extent which will reduce it from twelve to ten hours.
under the certain evil that it will reduce the wages of
women, and children, and husbands 25 per cent.?"—
(Hear, hear.) That was the balance of disadvantage.
He was persuaded that this would be the case with all
the certainty that he would be persuaded of a mathe-
matical truth. In his opinion a measure more fatal to
morality, and to all the decencies of civilised life, could
not be adopted. The Noble Lord, the Member for
Liverpool, declared his object was to equalise the distri-
bution of labour. He said he desired to place factory
labour on the same footing with other kinds of labour
throughout the country. That was an ominous warn-
ing.—(Hear, hear.) This was but a small step ; and,
by and bye, steps would be taken to deal with
the whole labour of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
A more disastrous course of legislation could not be
entered on.—(Hear, hear. But, setting aside that view
of the question, he begged to ask whether the tendency
of their legislation was to equalise the distribution of
labour ?—(Hear, hear.) He would ask any gentleman
conversant with the manufacturing districts whether,
though to a certain extent by their legislation of 1830
they had secured young persons against excessive la-
bour, that legislation had the effect so much desired by
the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool?—(Hear,
hear.) It had a directly opposite effect, and unless the
House was prepared to go the whole length of dealing
with every species of labour, it could not be otherwise.
With regard to children, it had the effect of driving
them from employments which their legislation con trolled
to employments to which it did not extend.—(Hear.)
He understood that 35,000 children under the age of
thirteen were employed in the printing of cotton. The
effect of interfering by legislation to shorten the time
of labour, and to prevent women and children from
working, would be to produce a congestion of labour
where they had not legislated.—(Hear, hear.) He had
gone into the subject more fully than he intended,
but he wished to show that her Majesty's Govern-
ment did not desire to resist the wishes of
a large portion of the labouring classes with-
out full deliberation—without duly considering the
reasons on which they acted, and on which several suc-
cessive Governments had acted.—(Hear, hear.) He
would conclude with a few general observations. In
politics, as well as in morals, there was a retributive
justice inherent in the order of affairs, clearly percep-
tible in matters of Government, and he had never yet
seen a wide departure from the principles of sound le-
gislation without, sooner or later, producing confusion.
—(Opposition cheers.) Yes, inextricable confusion.--
(Renewed cheers.) They might taunt him. He eared
not for those taunts. He was decidedly of opinion
that such a departure from sound legislation would
create and must end in a labyrinth of drror, out of
which there would be no escape.—(Opposition cheers.)
It would in the long run produce evils, formidable evils,
which it would be difficult, if not impossible to regulate
at all, but particularly difficult to regulate for
those whom it was intended to benefit.—(Hear, hear.)
He begged particularly to impress upon the Committee,
that if they increased the stringency of certain restric-
tions,the inevitable consequence would be, that they must
relax others of a countervailing nature.—(Opposition
cheers.) This was a highly artificial system.—(Hear,
hear.) It was like a house of cards, from which if
one was taken, the whole tumbled down. It was a
system which, if they touched, he was afraid evils would
be created, which he did not wish to contemplate.
Sir GEORGE GREY rose to explain. The Right
Hon. Baronet had charged him with inconsistency with
regard to this question, because he had voted differently
in 1839. He thought the Right Hon. Baronet ought
himself to show charity in bringing against him a
charge of inconsistency.—(Cheers and laughter.) But
it should be recollected that this was a subject on which
they had obtained a great deal of new information—
(Hear, hear)— and no regard for consistency .would in-
duce him to reject the light of that information.—
(Hear, hear.) He recollected that the Noble Lord the
Secretary for Ireland, and the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Paymaster of the Forces, had voted with him on
that occasion, and he was very anxious to see how
they should regiird their consistency.—(Laughter.)
Mr. M'Geachy and Mr. Labouchere rose together,
but the latter gave way, and
Mr. M'GEACHY addressed the House. He com-
menced by saying that the Noble Lord who introduced
the present amendment gave an example that a public
man could pursue a great public benefit through life.—
(Hear, hear.) It had excluded the Noble Lord from
office, because he would not accept office, lest it might
stand in the way of that entire self-devotion with which
he gave himself up to the pursuit of his high and noble
objects.—(Hear, hear.) He thought a Ten Hours' Bill
had great claims upon the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of the Government, for a Ten Hours' Bill was in-
troduced by the late Sir Robert Peel, and the principle
was always warmly advocated by him. The present.
GoVernment had come into power upon the shoulders of
the people, and 'he (Mr. M'Geachy) appealed to the
House whether they had shown any attention to the
wants of the people. Had they done so, they might
have remained one of the strongest Governments
that ever existed. Although he did not com-
plain of their conduct with respect to the
Factories Bill of the last session, considering the bigotry
which was shown respecting it by the Dissenters, yet he
could not help thinking that a bolder course might have
been adopted. From the time of the passing of the
Catholic Emancipation Act and the Reform Bill, when a
Minister did not think it inconsistent with his duty to
receive a deputation •of 150,000 persons belonging to
political unions, to the time of the Chartist insurrections,
—from that time to the present, redress of grievances
had only been consequent upon agitation. Agitation
had always preceded redress.—(Cheers from the Oppo-
sition.) He thought the time was now come when the
truth should be spoken. This country bad gone upon
the principle of amassing wealth, but the condition of
the labouring population had not been considered. Ho
hailed the proposition of the Noble Lord with satisfac
tion. It was a step in the right direction. So long as
the the present system existed—so long would there
be discontent among the people.—(Hear.) What,
after all, was it that was asked ? Why it was
merely to reduce the hours of labour in the manufac-
turing districts to the usual period in other districts. He
did not believe this would have the effect of reducing
the wages of the operatives, and in this opinion he was
borne out by many practical men.—(Hear, hear.) It
was said that those who wished to abridge the period of
labour wished to diminish the comforts of the poor. lie
did not think such would be the effect of the Noble
Lord's (Lord Ashley's) proposition. Previous restric-
tions upon labour had not proved injurious to the inte-
rests of the labourers. The Hon. Member then quoted
from the report of' Baron Dupin, a Member of the
French Chamber of Peers, who approved of restric-
tions upon labour. He disapproved of the employment
of children in factory labour, as he thought it injurious
to their constitutions. He would feel it his painful duty
to vote against the measure brought forward by the
Government.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he never rose to address
the House with feelings of greater fear and anxiety. It
was painful to him to separate himself from those with
whom he was accustomed constantly to act ; but when
he saw the Government pursuing a course which he
sincerely approved he could not shrink from giving
them all the assistance in his power.—(Cheers.)
The Right Honourable Gentleman the Secretary
of State for the Home Department had divided
his speech on that question into two distinct portions.
The first portion consisted of a lengthened appeal to the
consistency of those who sat on that side of the House,
and especially of those who composed the late Govern-