The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-26 00:00:00

SLAVERY.

Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition signed by
the venerable Thomas Clarkson, on 'the part
of the Anti-Slavery Society. The petition prayed
that their Lordships would sanction such fiscal
regulations as would admit foreign sugar into
the markets in this country, provided it came from
settlements such as those in the East and Manilla, where
free labour only was employed. The petition also prayed
that thtir Lordships would not allow, eilier directly or
indirectly, the admission into the markets of this coun-
try sugar grown in Brazil and Porto Rico.
'After a few -words from Lord KINNAIRD and Lord
BROUGHAM. the petition was laid on the table.
The Earl of POWIS presented a number of petitions
against the union of the tees of St. Asaph and Bangor,
and praying for the establishment of a bishopric in
Manchester. The Noble Earl gave notice that on
an early day he should call the attention of their Lord.
ships to that subject.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions against
the union of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor.
The Bishop of EXETER presented petitions to the
same effect.

The Bishop of CHESTER presented similar petitions.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a peti-
tion from Dublin, praying their Lordships to legalise
Presbyterian marriages in Ireland. The Noble Mar-
guts also presented several petition=, one from the Rev.
Wm. Turner, the oldest Dissenting minister in the
county, against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. Also
petitions in favour of the Bill.
(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
NEW WRIT.

he could not suppose that the public interests wadi be
exposed to the smallest risk, from the postponement of
the discussion ; and it would be more satisfactory to his
own feelings, and it would clearly be more agreeable_ to
justice, that no charge should be made. against that
Noble Lord, until he was able to atterd in the other
House to vindicate his character.— (Hear, hear.)
PRIVILEGE. •
Mr. ROEBUCK rose amidst loud cries of " Hear,
hear," and considerable confusion, in consequence of some
_Hon. Members not having taken their places. We un-
derstood the Hon. Member to say (for he spoke in solow
a tone ss to be scarcely audible in :he gallery) that he
would not have risen if he had. nut felt himself
imperatively called upon to address the House
Hon. Members would bear in mind, that on the last even-
ingnn which the House met, an Hon. Member opposite,
! namely, the Hon. Member for Canterbury, thought
• fit, in the performance of his . duty, to make
certain observations upon himself. To those observations
he had given what answer ho thought sufficient. The
attack was made upon him in a speech which was some •
what elaborate ; but he thought the House would admit
that he (Mr. Roebuck) did not lose his temper on that
occasion—(Hear, hear)—and that he spoke in such an
off-hand way, that it might have been supposed that the
, matter would be suffered to rest.

An HON. MEMBER (bfr. Estepurt we believe) moved
that a new writ be issued for the election of a burgess to
servo in Parliament for the borough of Horsham, in the
room of the Hon. Mr. Scarlett, now Lord Abinger.
Mr. TUFNELL, who was very indistinctly heard in
the gallery, rose to call the attention of the Speaker to
the delay which had occurred with respect to the issuing
of this writ. He wished to know whether it would not
be consistent with the forms of Parliament to issue at
once a writ for the election of a Member of that House,
in the room of a Member who had been called by the
death of his father to the House of Peers—to issue that
writ immediately that this fact became known. The
eldest son of a peer was admitted into that House with-
out any property qualification, without any inquiry
being made as to his claim to such a privilege ; and he
(Mr. Tufnell) could not see why a new writ could not
be issued without such delay taking place as that which
had occurred in this case.

The SPEAKER was, understood to say that this
point had been settled by Lord Dunfermline when
Speaker of that House. It was perfectly true that on
the death of a peer, the eldest son of that peer holding
a seat in that house immediately vacated his seat, but
the House had no means of ascertaining whether such
Member's claim to the peerage was bona fide or not
and therefore the only' safe course for the House to
adopt was to wait for the issuing of a writ of summons.
It was perfectly true that the eldest son of a peer was
admitted into that House, without a property qualification;
but it was equally true that a claim to that privilege
might be founded on error. This had been shown in a
case which bad recently occurred, in which an Hon.
Member qualified as the eldest son of a Peer, and it
afterwards turned out that he was not so.

Mr. ESTCOURT perfectly concurred in the view
which was taken by-the Speaker.
After: a few words from Mr. TUFNELL the new
writ was ordered.
LEEDS GAS BILL.
Mr. BECKETT moved that the evidence taken be-
fore the Committee on the Leeds Gas Bill, in the year
1835, and also the evidence taken before the Committee
in the year 1843, be referred to the Select Committee
on the Leeds New Gas Bill.—Ordered.
LEEDS AND BRADFORD RAILWAY BILL.
Oe the Order of the Day that. the report of the Com-
mittee 'upon the Leeds and Bradford Railway Bill be
further considered,
Mr. HARDY said that he thought it was neccessary
that the Bill should be recommitted. He thought that
the Standing Order which precluded Committees on
Railways from receiving maps or ans relating to com-
peting lines shouldbe suspended. When this question was
raised in the Committee, he voted against the evidence
offered by the opposing parties being received. But he now
thought that he had construed the order too stringently,
and as the parties themselves to the Bill had
given] evidence that there was a shorter line than that
proposed by them, it was, in justice to the public, and
to the advocates of the other line, only right that the
claims of both should be fully examined. He would
move, according to that view, that the Bill be referred
back to the Committee.
An Hop/ Mumma seconded the motion.
Sir. E. COLEI3ROOK defended the decision to which
the Committee had come, and to which.he said they were
by the Standing Order bound to come. It had, besides, been
proved to the Committee that the shorter line was in
many respects objectionable, if not impracticable. [At
s mpeloan Wynn was carried into the
H by two of the messengers,
borne
eNbinisterial bench, on the seat
%t
hoi
o u
sic uponeedn t
a l r h i
a C C.
upon
litter,
bh
next to that usually occupied by Lord Stanley. During
the silence occasioned by this unusual occurrence, Mr.
Ferrand came into the House, and took his usual seat,
without attracting observable notice.]
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY wished the House to recollect
that the Hon. Member for Bradford, only asked the
House to re-commit this Bill. Had be asked anything
beyond this most assuredly he (Mr. Wortley) would
have opposed him to the utmost. The question was
whether the Committee were justified by any rule or
by the practice of that House in refusing the evidence
which had been tendered. Had the matter been fully
gone into, and fairly so—if they had refused to enter-
tain evidence which they ought to have received, then
he (Mr. Wortley) thought it would be difficult for them
to refuse to re-commit the Bilk. For this reason he
should support the motion of the Hon. Member for
Bradford. •

Mr. M. MILNES said the quetion of the reception
of the evidence had been decided in the negative after
fair and due consideration ; and were the House to order
the Bill to be re-committed, he very much doubted if the
Committee would not again come to the same decision
as that at which they had already arrived.
After a few words from Mr. REDIrEAD YORKE,
Mr. C. WOOD said the position of the question was
simply this—that evidence had been rejected which,
according to the ordinary practice of the House, ought
to have been received. The parties ought•to have the
opportunity .of putting in that evidence.
Mr. ALDAN and Mr.
HoDsoN hiving briefly ad-
dressed the House,
Mr. GLADSTONE was of opinion that the Com-
mittee which sat on the Bill were in error, and that the
Bill ought to be recommitted.
The House then divided, when there appeared
For the motion

An HON. Mmunna here rose to order. If the Hon.
Member meant to complain of any proceeding tending
to cause a breach of the peace, he ought not to use lan-
guage tending to create a breach of the peacP.—(Hear.)
The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member was perfectly
in order.—(Cheers.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said, that before he read to the
House a letter which he had roceived. from the Hon.
Member for Canterbury, he would at once state that he
had no wish to give that Hon. Member the least offence.
He then said, and he now repeated, that whenever he
was called on to account for or explain anything that he
might have said (as we understood) he should be pre-
pared to do so.—(Repeated cries of " Speak up.") He
did not regret anything which had been said by him
after the sort of mode—(Cheers)--in which . the Hon.
Member for Canterbury had alluded to him.—(Re-
Dewed cheers.) The expressions used by the Ho-
nourable Member conveyed an imputation of
a grave character upon him (Mr. Roebuck).
The Hon. Member said that he had deceived his party—
that he disguised servility by severity, and (as we un-
derstood) that he was seeking the favour of the present
Government, under the appearance of a foe.—(Repeated
cries of" Speak up," the Hon. Member speakirg in an
unusually low tone, although with a very emphatic man-
ner.) He had been called a rebel to the Queen, and the
friend of Papineau. To that attack he had answered as
he would answer over and over again, but he
answered only in fair Parliamentary retort. He would
now read to the House the letter he had received from
the Hon.. Member for Canterbury. The Hon. Member
then read the following letter, but in the same indistinct
tone :

" Travellers' Club, April, 1844.
" Sir,—l cannot determine from the newspaper re-
port, if your speech in the House of Commons last
night, nor from what I understood when I heard it,
whether to me personally you meant to apply the words
dishonourable motives.' If so, I beg to refer
you to a letter which I addressed to my
constituents, dated July, 1843, in which
was this, passage—' That as I never asked a
favour of Sir Robert Peel or of his Government,
I could not have been actuated by any disappointment
of obligation in voting against them. Now I call upon
you to state that you did not mean to apply these words
to me ; and if you did so either to retract them or to
refer to a friend with whom my friend, Captain Garrett,
may communicate.
(Signed) " G, SMYTHE."
He (Mr. Roebuck) did give answer that Mr. Smythe
should hear from him, but not not by letter, but in the
House of Commons. But he said to Captain Garrett,
" As far as you are concerned you need not be alarmed."
Mr. SMYTHE—That was not the answer.
The SPEAKER—Order.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Sir, I am now here to answer for
what I have said.

The SPEAKER said the letter just read by the'Hon.
and Learned Member for Bath, having been sent to him
as a Member of that House by another Hon. Member of
that House, and the subject-matter of that letter having
had its origin in same proceedings in that House—it
would be the proper course for the lion. and Learned
Member for Bath to hand it over to the clerk of the
House, to be read by him at the table.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK was understcod to say he should not
give up the letter, unless by express command of the
House. He had considered it his duty to advise the
House of a fact, but he declined to give up a letter.—
(Loud laughter.)
Mr. CURTEIS said he felt it his duty to move that
the letter referred to be read by the clerk at the table of
the House.

The SPEAKER'said he had before stated the course
that ,it would be the duty of the House to pursue. He
must now positively require of the Hon. and Learned
Member for Bath to bring the letter up in order to its
being read, as it must be the foundation of any such
further proceedings as the House might think due to its
own dignity to.adopt. •
Mr. ROEBUCK brought up the letter, -which was then
read by the clerk to the House.
After a pause of a moment or two,
Mr. SMYTHE said the Hon. and Learned Member
for Bath, true to his practise, is to his right, had taken
one Hon. Member by surprise, because the answer given
to him (Mr. S.) by the gentleman he had ,sent to the
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath was not that which
the Hon. and Learned Member for Bathhad just reported
to the House. The answer given by the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath to the gentleman sent to him
was this—" Heshall hear of this? His (Mr. Smythe's)
'Friend had replied that he must have " a definite an-
swer," to which the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath
had rejoined, "He would send an answer." From that
hour ho (Mr. Smythe) had been expecting an answer.—
(Roars of laughter.) Lie (Mr. Smythe) could give his
sacred word of honour that, except to the friend
he had sent to the IlOnourable and Learned
Member for Bath, he had never opened his lips
to any person, or made the slightest intimation 'of the
course he was about to pursue. But this afternoon, be
(Mr. Smythe) by accident met the Noble Lord the
Member for Newark (Lord J. Manners), who informed
him that he had been given to understand by an Hon.
Member of that House, that the Honourable
and Learned Member for Bath was about to
bring this matter before the House.—(llear, hear.)
Inasmuch as he had taken but one gentleman into his
confidence, while the lion. and Learned Member for
Bafh had chosen to take somewhere about five hundred
into his—(Oh, oh)—he (Mr." Smythe) was well et-intent
that that confidence should be full, unreserved, and ex-
plicit.—(Hear, hear.) And he must say this—that
when the lion. and Learned Gentlemen who had just
spoken about having only made use of a fair parliamen-
tary retort, he should have perfectly agreed with the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that his remarks had
only partaken of the nature of a fair parlicraentary re-
tort if he had made use of it for the first time.—(llear,
Lear.) Bet it must be in the recollection of
the House that that Honourable and Learned Gentleman
upon an Irish debate, during the last session,
of Parliament when he (Mr. Smythe) had already
spoken, made a speeCh characterised by severe and caus-
tic severity, with regard to himself, making use of the
same insinuation that he had preferred on Wednesday
evening. He (Ur. Smythe) was at the time utterly un-
able to give any reply to the insinuation, because the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman afterwards left town
to attend the circuit. But on that occasion he consulted
a friend, -who told him he could take no notice of what
had been said, but that he must contradict the insinua-
tion. And that insinuation he did now contradict, in the
most immediate, direct, and public manner, because he
must be permitted to say that it was a grave
reflection on a public man, that he should be supposed
to act from venal, low, and sordid motives.—(Cheers.
And now the Hon. and Learnded Member for Bath had
brought thematter before the House, he 'must say that
-he had done it in a different spirit from what he (Mr.
Smythe) expected he *tap have done. When he under-
stood that the Hon. and Learned Member had undertaken
to bring the matter before the House, he expected that he
would have done it in a speech somewhat similar to those
he was in the habit of making—a speech full of those
aspersions he was in the habit of throwing out. But as
the Hon. and Learned Member had not done so, it only
remained fur him (Mr. Smythe) most humbly and
respectfully to apologise to the House, if he
had done anything which involved a breach of its order
and privileges.—(Loud cheers.)
-Sir R. PEEL said, according 'to the course usually
taken in such cases, it would be necessary that both
Hon. Gentlemen should give an assurance, which they
would have no difficulty in giving, that this matter should
not go further.
Mr. ROEBUCK objected to comply with this, because
this would pre-suppose that he intended to pursue that
course.—(Laughter.)
Sir R. PEEL, said that assurance clearly exempted the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman from any suspicion of in-
tending to do so.—(Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER—It now only remains for me dis-
charge my duty by calling on Mr. Smythe to give the
House his assurance that he will not take any hostile
proceedings.
Mr. SMYTHE—The thing is perfectly absurd.—
(Laughter.) If the Hon. and Learned Member chooses
to bring the matter before the House, and then says I am ,
not one to bring matters to extremities, thereby insi-
nuating
that I am the person—(Laughter)—and throw-
ing the whole odium of the position on one—it is per-
fectly absurd, because you must remember the position
in which the Hon. Gentleman p'aces me. If the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman is willing to state, that he bas taken
the initiative in this matter, because he is the most diffi •
cult man in the. world to deal with.—(Laughter, and
cries of Order, order)— because he has engaged in some
half dozen affairs of this kind.—(Loud cries of Order,
order—Chair, chair.)
The SPEAKER—The Hon. Gentleman must see that
his conduct was not respectful to the House.—(He had
been asked not to engage in hostile proceedings;. and he
(the. Speaker) now requested that he would answer that
call.
Mr. SMYTHE—Then I will do so in one word. .As
it is impossible to determine whether the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman is only here in this House as a
Member of Parliament, I beg in the most ftill and
unreserved manner to apologise, for any breach Of
formulas or forms of the House of which I may
have been guilty. I have no more to say,
excepting that this matter will not go further.'
MR. FERRAND'S ACCUSATION.
On the motion of Sir R. PEEL, the Order of the Day
for proceeding -with the matter of the 'complaint of the
Hon. and Learned Gentler pn the Member for Beverley,
and the Right Hon. Gentlepan the Secretary of §tete
for the Home ]department, was read, •

Ag it
Majority for the re-committal of the Bill —lO2
The Bill was then ordered to be re-committed.
NEWQUAY HARBOUR AND RAILWAY- BILL.
On the motion of Mr. P. HOWARD, the Newqoay
Harbour and Railway Bill was read a third time and
passed.
LIVERPOOL GAS BILL.
On the motion of Sir IL DOUGLAS, the Lords'
amendments to the Liverpool Gas Bill were agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. MILNER GIBSON the Man-
chester Royal Infirmary Bill was read a second time.
Dr. BOVVRING gave notice that on Thursday week
he would call the attention of the House to the subject
of quarantine.
80, IRECAL OF LORD ELLENBOROUGH.
Mr. MACAULAY said he wished to put a question
to the Right lion. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's
Government. He wished to ask him whether it was
true, as had been reported, that her Majesty's Govern-
ment had recalled Lord Ellcnborough from the Govern-
ment of India?
Sir R. PEEL said—ln answer to the question which
has been put to me by the Right Hon. Gentleman, I beg
to state that on Wednesday last her Majesty's Govern-
ment received a communication from the Court of Di-
rectors, that they had exercised the power which the law
gives them, to recall, at their will and pleasure, the Go-
vernor-General of India.—(Loud cheers from the Oppo-.
sition benches.)
Mr. MACAULAY said, that, under those circum-
stances, he need scarcely say, that it was not his intention
to bring forward on Tuesday week the motion of which
he had given notice respecting the late evenU in GwAllor.

He would reserve the right of bringing that subject I The SPEAKER—Is William Bust;old Ferrand,
under the notice of the House hereafter, but as the in his placo ?
administration of Lord Ellenborough had terminated, Mr. Ferranti rose and bowed.

The Clerk at the table then read the report of Mr.
Ferrand's speech.
Mr. FERRAND tben rose and said, Sir, I owe, in
the first Vace, an apology to this House for having been
the unitentional means of taking up so much of its
valuable time. - Had the Hon. and Learned 'Member for
Bath not taken me unawares the other evening—(Hear,
hear)--I should, on reflection, have given him
the answer what the Honourable Member for
Finsbury said he would have given. But,
Sir, having the hurry of th:: moment been
induced to reply to the question of the Hon. and Learned
Member. I tun sorry that I should have been the cause
of thus taking up the time of the House. I owe
another apology, Sir, to the working-classes in the fac-
ctory districts, that I should have been the means this
evening of depriving them of one moment of that sacred
time which they were expecting would be em•
played this evening in debating a question of
vital impor ance—a question to them of life or death.
I hope the House wil do me the justice to believe that, if
any remarks of mine, either of a public or of a private
nature, should have wounded the feelings of any indi-
vidual, I shall ever be prepared to give that explanation
to that individual which one man of honour has a right to
expect from anotar. It appears to me, Sir, that there
have .been unfounded conclusions arrived at as to what I

said in reference to the subject now brought before the
louse. On Monday evening, as far as my recollection goes,
I said to this House, that I believed that every word 'of
mine, as reported in the Times newspaper, which related
to the Right Hon. the Secretary of State for the Home
Department and to the Hon. and Learned Member for
Beverley was strictly true; but that I would not vouch
for them until I had again referred to that paper, and if they
were correct, I would come down the following day and
fearlessly and boldly, before this House, either avow or
disavow them. I redeemed my pledge to this House.
I came down with the full intention of doing so, and so
I did. Sir, • the House labours under an, incorrect
impression, when it supposes that I was .driven from the •
House by the rude and unmanly interruption
which was offered me by the lion. Member
opposite—(Cries of " No, no," from the Opposition
benches)— or that I fled from the charge.
Si,s the charge which was made against me was that I used
language at L:cds affecting those two Hon. Gentlemen,
and I lmitted I had done so. I admit so, for every
word in that paper is what I uttered at the Leeds meet-
ing. When I left this House I adopted a precedent
which has been pursued by lion. Members placed under
the peculiar circumstances of myself. I retired from
the House, considering it would be improper in me, and
impertinent towards the House; if I remained one
moment longer. Having redeemed my pledge, I left,
lest I might be an impediment to the free discussion of
the subject I have been ordered by the House of Com-
mons to appear in my scat to-day, and I respectfully
obeyed the summons, as I will obey every summons or
order this House may give me if it is justified in order-
ing.—(Langhter.) I fun given to understand that if I
was prepared in my place this evening to plead guilty
to the charge, which the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman has made against me, that I shall
receive a free pardon at his hands—that if I do not plead
guilty the House will then proceed to pass sentence on
me without even examining any evidence—(Cries 'of
" No, nu")—that it will proceed to pass sentence on
me without producing any evidence as to the
construction to be - put upon my words. I hope
I shall be allowed to say one word •as to
the conduct hitherto pursued by this self-constituted
Court of Honour. Mr. Speaker-No man, Sir, ever sat
in that (''hair, who conducted himself with more strict
impartiality more gentlemanly demeenour or more
graceful bearing than yourself.—(Cheers.) But, Sir, in
this new effice as judge of this self-constituted Court of
Honour, 'you yourself have found the greatest
difficulty in acting as an impartial Jude.
Sir, the other- evening, when that common in-
!ormer applied to ineL-(Losid cries of " Order,
order.") I retract the words, but I will
never retract the sentiment. (Partial cheering.)
Sir, when that public accuser—(lnterruption)—it is a
Parlismentary phrase, and it is unganerouS to attempt
to interrupt me.. Sir, when that public accuser applied
to me the epithet of falsehood the otherevening, I declared
that the language was ungentlemanly. You called me
to order. Sir, when mac of the witnesses in this prose-
cution read his evidence against me he supported it by
engrafting on that evidence a leading article in the
Times newspaper.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, the leading men
of both political parties in this HoUse attacked me in
violent language, Nay, one of them in language un-
justifiable, charged me with a crime, Sir, of
which he himself was guilty. Is he a fit judge to sit
here? I admit that a more noble or generous-hearted man
never trod the soil of Britain; but under the excitement
of the moment he uttered expressions which were quite
unjustifiable.— (Hear, hear.)' Sir, the shouts of revenge
which issued from the jury were .also within your hear-
ing ; and let the House recollect that the Prime Mi-
nister of England, is hen I had scarcely left
these walls, declared in this House, that by having done
so I had deprived it 'of gratifying itself with a great
deal of amusement. (Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Sir, as a Member of this hii use, I protest
against these proceedings. In the name of the people of
England—(lronical cheers)—l deny your right to try
me on this charge—in the name of the people of England
I pronounce this self-constituted Court of Honour to be
an illegal and an unconstitutional Court ; and, Sir, in
the name of the People of England, I refuse to plead at
its bar.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," and partial cheering.)
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said lie by no means rose to
address the House in answer to the speech of the
*Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down.
But his Honourable Friend the Member for Bever
ley had, in distinct terms, denied the accuracy
of the charge preferred against him by the
Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He (Sir J. Graham)
had not given to the House any statement or assurance
in reference to the facts relating to the charge, which
Was then under the consideration of the House.
and it was only for that purpose, before he re-
tired from the House, that he rose to addresS them.
Now, before the House proceeds further with-the consis
titration of this subject, they shouldihear his (Sir J.
Grabana's statement. The Honourable Gentleman
had referred to the authority of this tribunal,
and said that he did not come to ask the
opinion of the House as to the accusation. But
he (Sir J. Graham) as the accused was entitled to ask
them fen their acquiVal and justification.—(Hear, hear.)
He was in a condition to ask for that decision, and he had
a right to state what the answer was, both
as to what concerned himself personally or what
concerned the Hon, Member for Beverley. The first
charge in which he alone was concerned was couched
in these few words—that he was a person who had
taken steps to procure a false report of the
purpose of crushing the Hon. Member for Knaresbo-
rough, and that he afterwards dismissed the poor wretch
whom he had used as his degraded and ignominious in-
strument. He had with the utmost diligence endeavoured
to ascertain which he had had any communication,
direct or indirect, with Mr. Mott in reference to the
report. He was unable -to find any trace
of any correspondence with the Assistant-Com-
missioner; (Loud cheers.) He had endeavoured
to find any trace of communication with the Commis-
sioners, the central authority, under whose directions the
Assistant-Commissioners acted.. He could find no trace
of any such communication.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)