The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-09 00:00:00

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mu.s:, on. Member rept., scot leg the ie.
111,1'i at I.eqtt to recta fee assent trteee prep.;
th.+, tit Hee. (h'at's: man seei,l the recent., talt,ratior in
elis3belllli,lll of th- e:atiltiy had hies n to all
evicnt 7eer etal. 'Cho ores:tote, hoe ever, WIZN itoe
refs •Ai)ti it wet CUILS db. the-it having
Pzesed,,,, 'e ferns paying any pr.rtion of the
they -ra Of the e ale; ry in tort h .pc of dmies. If
t cite , lit sysit in, t',' v would tines
whet w v's obliged Li e Jeep their ex rtidi,nre beyoue
eueetr °Aw:t eaint. with the tavety hoot-air
of the
dat Y. ‘littat haei teree the result of taking off the
they ut.P" cora rewe ne,l from other count, ies ? Dui
ht. kh el
0,4
it
that
it sm o
fixe I dutyb•ai. eel onimpeeede farth?ingCeet a cheapeinl r
e
dlity. 11`. "re metuent th -y ire peel eirelere.te fixed
it wou!d fell by tit,t, nor:wit abroad, toad
iliere;„s'nf• by the course toy teal a topted
fit
ie
t.Put that ate-un:, as Si much additional pro.
it °r.' tit,' pocket, f the fereigner, and took
of their own.—(Caeer.) Again, there was tile
iiicipo,titios nof the 11. e.. M•anb •r fir the West Riding,
prepered with him to t tkee off the duty upon
0301,,n2e.ause he cmsidered it a 'nest ueest tax, as well
tgrc,7 Injurious to the couetry at large,, which suffered
I",s from thet course. By the alterations in the
teleib'eY they had eltruhled the value of money,
et, bY what hed been termed by the Right lion. Baronet
(41.441 bargain they had made with the landlords.—
tinq But they must ultimately come to the ques-
they what is a pural ?" (Raars Lug,hter.) Now
Pittemwer" Paying the same amount of name), to the
tht,:i,en alai pensioners and others, when it would put-
tiouble the aolount of wheat or any other commo-
Nfelt formerly did, aid it was clear to him that that
eouti, °I things uiust sooner or later be altered. The
14,,i`rY would not rest satisfied so long as they saw those
overpaid, while they were deprived of half their
toilet ek and half of their property. The Right Hon. Be..
1/04,4"'d said the other night that he (Mr. Spooner)
ittuL aheer what he was going to ray, arid he had cheered
Illy it ar and a lunch)—becauselhe cordi-
fere:red entirely agreed with him. lie had told the
8 that tie corn-laws were a delusion—that the
bad ll„g.:'cale would slide front under their feet ; and he
of 'rented out to them the t fficts of the Currency Bill
be tBl9, He believed that considerable reductions might
by their expenditure. For instance, let them
doentto the dockyards, and they would find a great
eat
tr (Xtiavagant excenditure that might be very safely
h.,awth Again, there was the ordnance establishment,
lein" offices in Pall-arall and in the City—the object
kegenterely to increase the expense and render more
lie tla.ated and difficult the mode of conducting the pub-
Hap„ils'ness. Even if the Admiralty was looked into,
ther*ould be fouud good ground for reduction. Then
ettea-; e4roe the Lords if the Treasury, cf whom Mr.
tlatk 'rig had said that the only use they were of was to
ter ,(!ka House, to keep a House, and to cheer the Minis-
hi3,""n he was wrong.—(A laugh.) He should give
the -ii,l3l3ol't to the resolutions of the Hon. Member for
st Riding.
thr. 11UME said he would not follow his Hon. Friend
keweiitibject of the currency. He contended that no
the
,er had been given by the Right Hon. Gentleman to
tle:P'eeh of his Hen. Friend. The Right Hon. Gen-
,arl denied the facts brought tot ward by his Hon.
e:eii". Now, such bring the case, it was their duty to
(fettiler these facts. In the first place the Right Hon.
lehikelann denied that the increase in the military es-
thatTzents amounts to six millions since 1835; and
hat' ‘2 facts the increase amount rd only to 2,360,000/.
ttaww,eat was the fact? Why, in 1835, the military es-
oreal'elln-nts of this country, including the army, navy,
ane 'zee, &c., amounted to 11,657,001)1. This sum had
18(411Y increased to 12,000,000/., to 13,000,0001, up to
ipe7o,ooo/.—(lleter, hear.) The estimates in this re-
-4144 were last year 17,645,000/., and proving that the
letht[4,:le in the expenditure, as regarded the military
6,oo'n'"hrnent,, between now and
lionsBs, had increased
Pri:°°o/•—(tiear, hear.) The Gentleman then
11,,,,-eLatled to read the resolution proposed by the Hoe.
04"ier fir the West Riding, and asked if any
sip, to the Home could deny the justice f the prin-
th (I laid down in the :said resolution? It was true that
e ex
of late Penditure of the country had greatly increased
Wu] and as a consequence the taxes had also been
tern Y increased. It was tiaid that 3 ear by }ear the Go-
eililtlent was decreasing the expenditure of the country,
104„14at every effort would hereafter be made to further
QQ;ae that expenditure. What proof' had they that the
Feee•
.erfltuent would do all in its power to bring down the
i
the Unite ? Until the House refused the increase on
of iillle°11)e-tax, there was no manifestation on the part
the he Government that they would endeavour to lessen
tejleh"atdens of the country.—(Hear, hear.) It was only
teat: -tee House refused the income-tax that the esti-
lre.' Were withdrawn and new ones introduced, and it
etts for this that the Right Hon. Gentleman took credit
4e,,,the part of the Government.—(Ht ar, hear.) The Hon.
e"tterean then referred to the last resolution moved by
a He
n. Member far Yorkshire, which referred to the
e, of taxation, which it attributed to the extravagant
the
of the country. He contended that unless
tile 'louse pledged itself by adopting these resolutions,
trey Could not mt an to reduce the burdens of the coun-
-11), In 1835 the number of men in the army amounted
11;',, 00. In 1847 the number were increased
Why
e11,',,t7• This year the number was 99,121.
1 aid they not go back to the numbers voted in 1835,?
Year tee number of men in the navy were 26,841.
11184
the the number increased to 44,900. Where was
ause f,r this increase? The Hon. Gentleman then
t'rred to the staff of the army abroad and at home,
‘44 b
eal served that while the charge under this head
Ounted in 1835 to 118,0001., it increased in 1849 to
`!4,000/. Were tot all these facts a proof that we ought
lreturn to the state of affairs such us they existed in
35? The Hen. Gentleman then referred to colonial
expenditure, and said that this and other expenses would
aster
4tii.be reduced unless they acted upon the resolution
uruittcd to the House by his Hon. Friend. Unless the
(), ittl,? would exercise a discretion in these matters, in-
of allowing the Mirtistry to coutieue a system of
ea„
eeasasy extravagance, the pensions would never be
d.„`"
to Ho therefore, urged the House to be just, and
eit'rto these resolutions, unless good ground were
an to the contrary.
• HERRIES would not have taken any part in this
lisoussion had it not been for what had fallen from the
44. Gentleman who last addressed the House. That
ie°l,ll; Member had stated that no person could be sincere
tkluie desire to effect a reduction in the expenditure and
the(tit!ole of the country who voted against the motion of
pea sincerely
Member for the West Riding. As one who
h:a sincerely desirous of aidiug to the utmost of his
per the reduction of expenditure end taxation, he
e• Herries) thought it right to state that he could with
sincerity vote against the motion of the Hon.
etel
tifr "'Man.—(Hear, hear.) The course proposed
ditrded, its his opinion, no test of sincerity at all. It
jetllet seem to him at all necessary, in order to the ob-
ili VieW, that the House should recapitulate that
1814 every one perfectly knew—namely, that between
liaas and 1850 there had been an augmentation of public
ther7°9. They all knew that but too well; but to state
" feet thus broadly without note or comment was cal-
Wetad
the Only to mislead the public, and to impede rather
(ia promote the object. The Right Hon. Gentleman
it Labouchere) had shown, and he had no doubt car-
otitly, that of the 6,000,000/. of augmentation 2,300,0001.
411 had arisen on the estimates for our naval and
tel-tac„PY establishments, and yet the House was invited
4b:;'nrttl that the whole increase of 6,000,0001. was
lt,:teitally" attributable to that cause. Now, he (Mr.
I.ll„t'es) could not assent to that proposition; and he
l4llkht that his Hon. Friend (Mr. Spooner) would
tea'i!lY, upon reconsideration, feel himt elf Justified in as-
' taut to it either. He was also called upon to affirm
Government,
no foreign danger, or necessary cost of the civil
ei-:erontrent, or indispensable disbursements for the see-
f IQ our dependencies abrod warrant the continuance
tai's increase of expenditure a
." Now, he might be tits-
V.,ed to assent to every word of this proposition; but
(gear,
not assent to the spirit in which it was made.
f\rlear. hear.) if he did he should be inducing the
ur se to declare that the present state of things in
alit? Was not such as to warrant the maintenance of
...:Strong military and naval establishment in this country
It Whereas, in his opinion, the very revenge was the fact.
hwaee true, that there never was a time when this
W 46 in a state of more complete repose than at
41-(4ot, with the exception of a little episode in the
adeterranean—(Hear hear, and a laugh)—but could
c,4lYkeody look at the present state of Europe and say it
o'lthibited such peculiar symptoms of quiet and tran-
tillitY as to induce us to choose this moment of, all
nte-gets, for an unusual reduction in our naval and mili-
kt'Y establishments?—(Hear.) The third proposition
trap the House was called upon to affirm was, " That
pp! taxes required to meet the present expenditure im-
fte the operations of agriculture and diminish the
~U€lB f,,r the employment of labour in all branches of
productive industry, Sze." He entirely assented to this
i,osition.' but what occasion there was for affirming
th:er,hed yet to learn.—(Hear, hear.) He feared that
41.0 r• Gentlemen on the other aide of the House
t-fbuld hear more or this subject before any great length
elapsed.—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear," from
CeuPPosition benches.) The assertion of the resolu-
te' leas con was p
sideratierfectly
on on true,some and
other occasion it wold
hethercasion be matter for
or
w
art
those taxes which bore on agriculture as well as ma-
ecaetures ought not to be accommodated to the altered
ipldition of the country.—(Hear, hear.) The Right
11t1he Gentleyean the President of the Board of Trade
,0/led inclined to invite the House to a discussion of
Ilse question of our recent commercial legislation ; but
It that was not properly the subject then before the
of° -liell4°, he declined to follow him. The last proposition
Honourable Gentleman's motion was, " That to
t trinigh those evils it is expedient that this House
11e4'„,'I'Pe to reduce the annual expenditure with all
seta able speed, to an amount not exceeding the
been which within the last fifteen years has
eeProeed to be sufficient for the maintenance of the
fee-r,'ltY. honour, and dignity of the nation." Now, he
tlL'ne declined to affirm that proposition. It was true
tie; in 1835 the estimates wire greatly reduced; but
they-:t' te übs, (pent year they were augmented, and
eel Continuel to be augmented for several successive
et :8; and so it would always be that whenever they
siatt-tateted to make reductions greater than were con-
tete,,,ll,t with the safety, and honour, and dignity of the
to-h";'rYs the immediate cons( quenee would be a return
thi,;"gher expenditure. He remembered that the tame
Itte,,g,"ocurred after the reduction which the Honourable
ek.""or for Montrose, with the assistance of the Whigs,
teoh etted in the expenditure of 1822 ; and so always
d bt. Considerable credit had been given to the
fe°p.,ll.llrnetit that held office for a short thine in 1834.35
azier;se low estimates of that year; but as one of the
e;',„"ers of that Government he begged to say that the
le4sele-etee were those which had been framed by the
t° dial; Government, and having due regard
-heal} the circumstances under which they took office,
her Government of which he (Mr. Herries) W3i a mem-
tuought it expedient to adopt.—(llear, hear.) He
Oka ,liouse, instead of agrceing to the motion of

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