The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-06 00:00:00

LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 6, 1857.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS.-(YESTERDAY.)

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool-
sack at 5 o'clock.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented several
petitions from different parts of the metropolis, praying
that incomes under 1501. per annum may be exempted
from the operation of the income tax.
THE OPERATIONS AT CANTON.

The Earl of HARDWICKE begged to put a ques-
tion to the noble lord, the Secretary for War, of which
be had not given notice, but which perhaps he would be
able to answer. The noble lord, as w(11 as other per-
sons, had no doubt read in the newspapers that a seri-
ous change bad taken place in the sta`e of affairs at
Canton. It appeared that the English forces bad re-
treated from Whempoa, the British fleet having been
attacking a squadron of junks, which retreated in good
order; in consequence of which the admiral aas com-
pelled to abandon the position he had occupied on the
wrecks of the factories, and at the same time be had
burnt down the suburbs of Canton. He wished, there-
fore, to ask whether any despatches had been received
to that effect, and if they had been received why they
had not been published or laid on the table of the house?
As these statements had been received through two
channels it was to be presumed that they were true,
and he thought that the government in the present state
of publio opinion on the subject ought to give every
information to the nation.
Lord PANMURE stated that the question which
the noble earl bad put to him without notice, was one
of a somewhat important character. In the first place,
he was not able to charge his memory with regard to all
the transactiots which had recently taken place at Can-
ton ; and so far as the question alluded to the navy
there could be no despatches to his department. He
had, however, received a despatch from the officer com-
manding at Hong Kong, stating that a company of a
regiment bad been engaged with the enemy, and burnt a
portion of the suburbs of Gunton, and that some casual.
ties had taken place. The list of those casualties would
appear in the papers to-morrow.

The Earl of ELLENBO ROUGH said that perhaps
that question ought to have been put to the Foreign
Secretary, and perhaps the noble earl could state whe-
ther be had received any despatches relative to the action
of Macao, the retreat from Whampoa, and the destruc-
tion of the suburbs of Canton

The Earl of CLARENDON said he had received
despatches from the admiral, stating the reasons why be
thought it necessary to withdraw from the Dutch Folly,
and to destroy the position he occupied in the suburbs of
Canton, which enabled the Chinese people to act with
hostility towards the fleet. It had been found necessary
to send forces for the better protection of Hong Kong,
where disturbances wore apprehended, and rewards of-
fered by the Chinese for assassination and incendiarism.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said the noble earl
would see that it was important to know the time when
the suburbs of Canton were destroyed. If the admiral
had retained the position in which he had been intrencbed
he would have been justified in destroying the suburbs,
which gave a cover to the enemy ; but if he destroyed
them after he had determined to retire it was no use as a
military or moral operation, but an net of useless ven-
geance. It ought to be known when, and under what
circumstances, the destruction of the suburbs of Canton

took place.
Lord PANMURE was surprised at the misrepresen-
tations which had been made of the conduct of the Bri•
tish admiral and commander (hear)—wi thont noble lords
knowing what were the circumstances which had oc-
curred. He must say that he blushed at the conversation
which had taken place, and which tendedto throw blame,
in the eyes of the country, on gallant men engaged in
doing their duty and maintaining the honour and inte-
rests of the country, and who had maintained them in a
position of difficulty. The circumstances were these :
the Admiral was placed in such a position at the Dutch
Folly with regard to the ships of war, that junks coming
up the river and sinking impediments in a particular
manner, would have stopped the return of his ships.
Finding that he was placed in a bad military position,
he withdrew from it to another position at what was
called Bird'snest Fort, in the neighbourhood of Canton,
but below the passage in question, and where his ships
could lie in safety and not be open to the danger of
junks coming up and stopping the passage, and in de-
stroying the suburbs of Cai,ton he (Lord Panmure) would
stake his character as a peer of Parliament and a gentle-
man of England, that the admiral had only done what
fair warfare justified, and not such an act of cruelty as
the noble end had represented ; and he believed that Sir
Michael Seymour's character stood, as an officer of the
navy, and as a humane and Christian gentleman, as high
as that of any man in the country. (Hear, hear, and
cheers.)

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII said that the noble
lord did not Feern to understand what he had said. The
whole matter depended on the time at which the acts in
question were done. If the Admiral was about to re.
turn to his position he might have been justified in
destroying any place which afforded a cover to the
enemy; but if he had retired altogether from before
Canton, which he did by going to the Bird'snest Fort
that act was unjustifiable as a military operation.

Lord PANMURE—I deny it.
PERSIA.

The Earl of MALMESBURY asked the noble earl
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether it was true
that a treaty of peace had been signed between this
country and Persia ?

Earl CLA.RENDON said he was happy to say that a
treaty of peace bad been signed. That treaty bad not
been signed until Lord Cowsley had satisfied himself that
the Persian ambassador was possessed of ample powers.
THE MINISTRY.

Earl GRANVILLE then rose and said—With
your lordships' permission, I propose to state to
the house some information with regard to the
course which her Majesty's Government deem it
their duty to take in consequence of what has oc-
curred in another place. When a Government finds
itself in a minority the usual course would be to
tender their resignation to her Majesty ; but on
full consideration of the circumstances of the case
they have felt it, in the present instance, not to be
their duty to take that course. Looking to all the
circumstances of the Care—considering that in ano-
ther place on an important question relating to the
financial condition of the country, the Government
received the support of a large majority; feeling
also grateful to your lordships for the support they
received from you on the subject of the present
state of affairs in China ; looking also at the
comrositien of the present House of Commons,
from which it appears not probable that a
Wrong Government could be formed in the existing
state of that house ; and also considering that
that house has been in existence for nearly five
years, has seen three governments in power ; that
it has seen the nation at war, has seen that war
concluded, and the re-establishment of peace--all
these considerations induce the Government to
think that it would be much to the advantage of the
country and to the public interests that a reference
should be made to the country in order that it may
declare its wishes with regard to its future govern_
ment. Without going into any detail of the reasons
which have induced her Majesty's Government to
adopt this course, all I shall say is, that the Go-
vernment will only ask both houses of Parliament
to accept such temporary measures as will enable
them in a short time to apply to the country for a
new Parliament, and to ascertain their wishes as to
the future government of the country. I do not
anticipate that this view of the Government will
meet with !any opposition from any party in the
state, but that they will all agree in the necessity of
as soon as possible ascertaining the feeling of the
raised raise
oE :stu i)Gye
shYnuoltlblialtdeafraii),oipeeinvadi;elit(llitftoo
country in this respect.
n
th
information
the
surcisesaiiieoustrit.
question
d
and ought to be supplied. He would remind the
house that in former cases, when the Government
had been defeated in the House of Commons, and
instead of resigning office, her Majesty's Govern-
ment thought fit to appeal to the country—in all
previous cases of this kind the difference of opinion
between Parliament and the Government had
arisen on a question of legislative policy. It was so
in 1784, when Mr. Pitt held office against a majo-
rity of the House of Counnens. It was in 1841,
when there was a resistance to the commercial po-

licy of the Government. In those ca-es there was
goof reason for bearing with the Government t'll a
new Parliament had declared what was to he the
policy of the country. But let me remind your
lordships that this case is widely different. The
House of Commons has condemned the Govern-
ment not on a legislative question, but on a
question of high policy, that of peace or
war. The House of Commons has come to this
resolution :—" That this house has heard with
concern of the conflicts which have occurrel be-
tween the Brifsh and Chinese authorities iu the
Canton river ; and, without exprasing an opinion
as to the extent to which the Government of China
may have afforded this country cause of complaint
respecting the non-fulfilment of the treaty of 1842,
this house considers that the papers which have

been laid upon the table fail to establish satisfactory
grounds for the violent measwes resorted' to at
Canton in the late affair of the Arrow." Now let
it be considered what was the sfTious effect of such
a resolution. It was this. The country was vir.u-

ally engaged in a war which the House of Commons
had branded as unjust; and the conduct of affairs
in the country with which We were at war was en-
trusted to a man whom the vote of the House of

Commons had branded with the fault of having with

out justification entered into those proceedings.
He wished to know whether, in the interval between
this time and the meeting of a new Parliament—
before the end of May, v74..iuh I have just heard is the

period when it would meet—whether, in that in-
terval, during which tremendous events might take
place, the policy which had been branded by the
house of Commons would still be pursued, and the
dealing with the important questions which must

arise in China was to be committed to the hands of
a man whose moral authority in that country had
been destroyed by the vote of the House of Com-

mons. It was impossible, after the vote of the
House of Commons, that that policy could be pur-
sued, and that the affairs of England at Canton
could be entrusted to the hands in which they were
at present placed. He would submit that if the
two Houses of Parliament were called on to give
facilities to her Majesty's Government in order
that they might be enabled to make that appeal to
the country which they desire—facilities which it
was in the power of either house to refuse—they were
entitled to have some satisfactory assurance on this
point from her Majesty's Government. He would
venture to say that what her Majesty's Govern-
ment ought to do, and which they might do,
was forthwith to recal Sir John Bowring, and
send out some person of high character and sta
tion in whom confidence could be placed, with full
powers to conclude a peace with China, if peace was
possit le ; an I that the Government should also
take measures, which no doubt they had taken, for
the protection of the lives and property of her Ma-
jesty's subjects in China. But this above a'l should
be done—that the individual who had brought this
country into the situation in which it was placed,
and who had brought on this unhappy war, ought
not to remain in the high position he nowoccupied ;
and unless her Majesty's Government gave satis-
faction on that point, it would be the duty of their
lordships and of the other House of Parliament, by
an humble address to her Majesty, to express their
feeling on that subject ; and if no other person
undertook the task, he (Earl Grey) should be pre-
pared to. take it on himself.
Earl GRANVILLE—I can understand the
question of the noble earl being put with propriety
in another place, where the resolution iu question
has been carried , but not in your lordships' house,
where, after full discussion, your lordships came to
a contrary opinion. At the same time lam unwil-
ling to refuse togive your lordships such general in-
formation as I can possibly give. I can assure
your lordships that oven before the close of the de-
bate on the subject of affairs in China, we bad fully
considered what would be the best mode of termi-
nating the present unsatisfactory state of the rela-
tions between this country and China. We do na

,ake the resolution of the House of Commons as in-

tended t) indicate that we are to refrain from tak-
ing every necessary step to defend the lives and pro-
perty of British subjects in China, nor do we admit
that we are bound to patch up in any way our rela-
tions with China ; but we think that we shall act in
concurrence with that resolution if we take every
step which is calculated to settle this question as a
whole, and in doing so we believe that we shall not
incur the blame of your lordships, or the other
house of Parliament, even in the present state of
things, and still less when the other house shall
have been re-elected after a dissolution of Parlia-
ment.

The subject then droppet
PROBATE AND LETrERS OF ADMINISTRA-

_
TION BILL.
This bill paßsed through committee pro forms.
CHIEF CONSTABLES BILL.
On the motion for reading this bill a third time,
The Marquis SALISBURY moved, as an amend-
ment, that copies of the correspondence between the
magistrates of Staffordshire and Sir G. Grey should be
laid upon the table.

Their lordships divided—
For
the third rea ling
13-15
For the amendment,

The bill was read a third time and passed.
The Public Health Supplemental Bill (1857) and the
lonian Subjects Commission Bill were also read a third
time and passed.
BENEFICES UNDER 2001. A YEAR.
Viscount DUNGANNON moved for a return of the
number of benefices within the diocese of London having
endowments under 2001. a y ar, specifying the popula-
tion in conrection with such benefices, the name of each
benefice, ai.d those of them which are without a resi-
dence for the incumbent.
After a few words from several noble lords, the mo-
tion was agreed to.
Their lordships then adjourned.

usual instructions given to aOmirals on foreign stations
with regard to our plenipotentiaiy.
WEEKLY COMMUNICATION WHIT INDIA.
In reply to a question from Mr. CATLET,
Mr. V. SMITH said it was not intended at present
to open up a weekly communication wth India. At
present there was a fortnightly communication.
Mr. KINNAIRD asked the Secretary of State for
the Gdonies if he had any objection to lay on the tab'e
of the house any despatches fro .n the Goverunr of
Malta on the subject of the working of the Jury Law in
general, and especiady with reference to the trial of the
murderer of Cant. Graves I
Mr. LABOUCEIERE said he had not, and woul
produce them if th( y were moved for.
THE MINISTRY.

Lord PALMERSTON, who en rising was re•
ceived with loud cheers, said—Mr. Speaker, Sir—
In order to regularise what I am about t•) s 'y, and
to put it in the power of any hon. member who on
his part has any remarks to make, I intend to cm-
elude the statement I am about to submit to the
house by the formal motion that this house do now
adjourn. Sir, the house must naturally expect.
after what happened on Tuesday night, that I
should state to the house the course which, upon
due reflection, her Majesty's Government intend
to pursue. Under ordinary circumstances, after a
vote by which the house by a majority, whatever
the amount of that majority might he, affirmed that
which many at least take credit for considering to
be a vote of censure on the conduct of the Govern-
ment—under ordinary circumst awes, th 're could
hardly be an alterna•ive left to the Government on
*horn snelr-vote had been passed. (fDitter, hear.)
The natural course would be to tender to the
Sovereign *the resignation of their offices, and
leave to those who had obtahied the majority
the task of conducting the business of the
country. But the case seemed to me to be of so
peculiar a character that we have Lot deemed it
our duty to submit to the Sovcreign the resigna-
tion of our offices. (Cheers.) There is another
course which a government, under such circum-
stances, might constitutionally adopt, and that is
the course which we have felt it our duty to pursue.
We have deemed it our duty to advise the crown,
at the earliest period at which the state of public
business will permit, to call upon the constituencies
of the country to exercise that mtion which the con-
stitution places in their hands. (Cheers.) Sir, I
say the circumstances are peculiar, because, while
on the one hand, looking simply to the result of that
last debate, we might say wo have lost the confi-
dence of this house, yet on the other hand, looking
to the divisions which took place shortly before
upon questions involving very important portions
of 'the policy of the government, the opposite
result took place. (Cheers.) lam alto bound
to say—l feel myself free to say—that some of
those who concurred in the vote of Tuesday
night did make it understood that that vote was
not to be considered as implying a withdrawal on
their part of the confidence which they had hitherto
placed in her Majesty's Government. (Hear.) But,
sir, it is in vain to deny that that vets would render
it very difficult, if not unseemly, for th,3 Govern
moat, with regard to whom it was pas.ed, to under-
take to conduct the business of the country in the
ordinary manner, through the rest of a long se-sion.
(Cheers.) And moreover, the state of parties which

that vote indicated also appears to me to sho ,v,
connected with tie various votes and fluc`ua•ing
opinions of the house in regard to its majorities on
former occasions, that it would lie extremely diffi-
cult for any government that could now be formed
—whether the government which at present exisks,
or any other government, however efficient it
might be—and I say this not as a mAt'er of com-

plitneut, but as a matter of truth—mgt meaning to
have recourse to tauut9, but merely etatiug facts—

I say it would be very difficult fortho present Go

vernment, it would be very difficult for that which
I admit to be an efficient Government, if formed by
a combination of parties, to carry on the business
of the country throughout the s.ssion in the
present state of feeling in which this house
happens to be. (Hear.) I will not elude to the
difference of opinion between the two houses on
the question which was.put to issue on Tuesday.
I do not think that would be a sufficient reason.
But still it is an element to show what various
opinions exist with regard to the present Adminis-
tration as compared with those who might be its
successors. (Hear.) Well, sir, this Parliament is
now in its fifth year. It is, measuring its duration
by that which it has seen, a very old Parliament.
It has seen more of things of importance than have
fallen to the lot of most Parliaments in that short
space of time. It has seen three Administrations
—the Administration which called it together, the
Administration formed almost immeliately after-
wards, and the Administration which now sits on
these benches. It has seen the transition from a
state of profound peace to a great European
war. It has seen the transition from a great
European war to the restoration, fortunately,
of European peace. And therefore this Par'ia-
meat has, I say, done in the way of events, of
which it has been the instigator, as much as
could be supposed to fall to the lot of any
Parliament. (Hear, hear.) I think if the state of
business in this house would have admitted of an
immediate return to our constituents, that would
have been the course which it would have been most
proper and most seemly to adopt. But the state of
public business does not admit of our taking that
course. We have not yet voted anything in the
way of estimates for the public service. Wo have
not arranged anything in regard to the taxation of
the country. We have not past,ed the Mutiny Act,
which would expire before it would be possible to
cause Parliament to reassemble to provide for the
maintenance of discipline in the army. Therefore,
what I humbly beg to propose to this house is this,
that we should do on the present occasion that
which bas been done on former sim;lar occasions—
that which was done in part during the administra_
tion of Lord Derby, when an early dissolution was
announced—namely, that this house should content
itself with passing those provisional and temporary
measures which are necessary for the public service
until the earliest period when the new Parliament
can assemble. For that purpose I propose that
instead of arranging certain taxes for a period
-of

three years, we should determine them only for
the ensuing year. (Hear.) It is obvious, I think,
to all, that there are certain taxes with regard to
which it would be a great embarrassment to com-
merce if they were settled for too short a period.
But we do not think that a parliament which is
coming to a conclusion would properly be called
upon to determine with regard to them for a longer
period than a year. (Hear.) Upon the same prin-
ciple we should proposd to the house to vote
sums on account of the estimates for a portion of
the year. We propose also to pass the Mutiny Act
for only a portion of the year—(hear, hear)—leav-
ing the Parliament which may assemble towards
the end of May to deal with all those great matters
which must then come under its consideration.
(Hear, hear.) I should hope, sir, that the house
will see that the course which we aro proposing
to adopt is one which is in accordance with the
principles of the constitution—(hear, hear)—and
that honourable gentlemen will not place any .1
obstruction in the way of our arriving at the
time when a fresh election may take place, or
interpose any unnecessary difficulties in the way of
our adopting that course which we Clink the pub-
lic service requires. (Cheers.) We shall abstain
from proceeding with anything but that which will
be absolutely necessary. There are many gentle-
men who have strong opinions on various subjects
which they would wish to bring under the notice• of
the house. They will, I think, feel that useasueres
of such importance cannot properly be taken into
consideration by a Parliament sitting as this one
will continue to do. I shall only therefore express
my hope that the same honourable forbearance wish:lh
has been shown by former Parliaments under simi.
ler circumstances will be shown by the preNnt Par-

[PRICE 4D. STAMPED 5D

liament. (Cheers.) There is this to be said in fa-
vour of the course we are pursuing, that now at
least the country will have an early and fr.e choice
between different administrations—a choice which,
without meaning to say anything uncivil to any
party in the house, I think I may say the country
could not in the same degree have had until that
combination of parties had led to the state in which
the Government now finds itself placed. (Cheers.)
As I said before I am stating a fact, without cast-
ing the slightest imputation upon those to which
this combination of parties is owing, but I think it
may be advantageous to the country to possess such
a choice. (Cheers.) The people will be able to
choose between two different and efficient admini-
strat'ons, and that is the ground which I think will
justify us in throwing upon the countrythe respon-
sitility of determining what administration shall
be invested with the conduct of the affairs of the
(Loud cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI--Sir, I think the noble lord
has dealt frankly with the house, and I wish to re-
spond, as I am sure every member of the house
does, in the same spirit, to the noble lord. (Cheers.)
I am not surprised at the counsel which the noble
lord and his colleagues bas tendered to the Sove-
reign. I think, on the whole, it is the course
most advantageous to the public interest. I shall
mre'f, wi h that feeling, give every facility for
forwarding the public business—(cheers)—con-
sistently w;th a regard to what is duo to the coun-
,try. Sir, I trust that the result of this appeal to the
countri=, which -r; for one, look_to with 49 appre-
hension, may prove of great advantage to the
public interests.. I do think it is of the utmost
importance to the character of Parliament and to
the advantage of this realm, that Parliamentary
parties should be more distinctly defined than they
now are. (Hear.) lam persuaded myself that

nation.

that habit which has of late been too much in

vogue, of decrying the advantage and influence of
party has had a very injurious effect upon the con-
duct of publio affairs. (Cheers.) Party spirit is
the best guarantee for public and private honesty,
and I trust that, when this recurrence to the sense
of the country has been pursued, members will be
returned to this house with definite views—(cheers)
—that we shall know who is prepared to change
and who is ready to maintain the institutions of
their country—who is in favour of a reduction of
the burdens of the people and who is in favour of
increasing them—who is in favour of a cer ain
policy which, while it maintains the true interest
and dignity of the country, is conciliatory to all
other states, and who is in favour of that turbulent
and aggressive system which I believe must in-
crease the burdens of the people—(Cheers)—and
ultimately endanger and diminish the power of the
country. Sir, I repeat that I shall meet the invita-
tion of the noble lord with the same frankness and
candour with which it has been made. He will ex-
perience from me, and I think I may answer for
the gentlemen ou this side of the house, no sinister
conduct. We shall give every facility to the pro-
gress of public business which we believe is sin-
cerely intended to produce that result ; but w, the
same time I shall expect on the part of the Govern-
ment a clear description of the course which they
intend to pursue, as several matters have been
brought before us which I cannot believe, so far as
I can form an opinion, can be cast aside exactly in
the manner which I infer, from the tone of the
noble I,,rd, Ile anticipates. But I repeat that we
will sincerely assist ihe noble lord in the conduct
of public business, so far as we can, without endati-
gering the interests of the country. (Cheers.)

Mr. COBDEN—Sir, I rose at the same time as the right
hon. gentleman, because I thought there was an omission in
the not Is lord's speech which ought to have been explained
before any remarks were made by those hon. gentlemen
who feel disposed to take part in this discussion. Oo
Tueird.ty last, alter a debate in this house which lasted
four nights, and which, I may say, was unprecedented
for ability and argument since the time when Sir R. Peel
retired from office, this house came to a solemn vote on
a question not merely affecting ordinary interests, such
as we are in the habit of deliberating upon in this house,
but affecting the lives of vast Lumbers of people at a re.
mote distance from our shores. That vote, sir, has at
tracted, and will attract, a world-wide notice ; but it has
been entirely ignored in the remarks which the noble lord
has made on tbis occasion. Now, sir, I do not rise to say
one word in opposition to the propriety of the course
the noble lord has adopted in determining to dissolve
Pail ament I think if the noble lord is going to the coun-
try acid wishes to have a cry which may be eminently
serviceable to his opponents and damaging to his fol-
lowers, he has certainly hit upon thatcry. For what must
be said at the hustings by those who present themselves
for re-election under present circumstances? Looking to
the votes given by the noble lord during the last 10 days
in the course of which he has torn from the hands of my
hon, friend the member for East Surrey (Mr. L. Ring)
the last remaking rag of the old reform banner, and has
trampled under foot even the miserable modicum of re-
form, the 10/, county franchise—(hear)—havin'g voted
against everything which has entered into the traditions
of the liberal party—after slapping in the face the hon.
member for the Tower Hamlets, who proposed the abo-
lition of church rates—the noble lord now sends his fol-
lowers to the country with the cry of " Palmerston for
ever no reform—and China war." (Cheers.) If the noble

lord is going to an election on such a policy, in order to
play into the hands of hon.gentlemen opposite, he has bit
upon an excellent device. I am only surprised that hon.
gentlemen opposite should follow him in that course. But
what I want to ask the noble lord is, what is he going to
do in consequence of the vote the other night I That is a
practical question, and I will show it is a practical ques-
tion, even on the point of view of theGovernmsnt itself,
from what we have heard during this debate. Has not
the noble lord told us, have not all the right hon. gentle.
men opposite who have spoken from the ministeria!
bench toll us, that the effect of an adverse vote would
be to imperil the safety of Englishmen living in Chine,
that it would be extremely prejudicial to our interests in
the East I Welt, the result of that vote has gone out to
China with the mail which went out yesterday. But we
all know it is possible to go four days after by way of
France to Marseilles, to meet the. mail at Malta. This
is the sth of March, letters may go on the 9th, but pas-
sengers to be safe should go on the Bth. It is possible
for a person to leave London on the Bth and go by Mar-
seilles to Malta and catch the steamer there, and then
go by Alexandria overland to India and China. I ask
the noble lord what course of action he intends to take
in consequence of the vote of Tuesday night ? I, do not
shrink from the responsibility, in common will
the rest of those who voted with me, of say-
ing what ought to have bean done by the Govern
ment if it held office a day or two after that vote,
because in a matter of this pressing emergency the exe-
cutive Government has no right to hold office unless it
is prepared to carry out the resolutions of this house.
(Cheers.) I have no objection, as far as I am concerned,
as one insignificant unit of this assembly, to say, what
ought to have been done in consequence of the vote. Its
the first place, as the Gosernnsent assured us, the news
of this adverse vote may be misunderstood in China, and
great danger may be apprehended. Then the first con-
sideration is the safety of our countrymen in China. I
do not share that apprehension of danger. If we read
what is going on at Hong Kong and at Singapore, I
think tte mischief appears to be about as great as it can
possibly amount to. But I will take the position the Go-
vernment assumes, that there is danger to be apple.
hended ; and what should you do I Send out a compe-
tent person armed with lull authority to represent the
Government here, let him supersede all existing British
authorities in China, and let him have instructions to so:
according to how he may find things there. Surely you
may find, at 3 three days' notice, a man with a head on his
shoulders to take the instructions and carry them ont.
The news must arrive at Hong Kong first. Hong Kong
is an island, and a couple of steam-frigates is sufficient to
protect it from the whole naval force of the Chinese em-
pire. You have a sufficient naval force there. Yon.
fhirTc;
no English at Canton ; but you might ssnd a I
to the. ports further north, and as a
tkose ports before any intelligence can reach of pi„ing
front another overland, you have
thePcoas4n reach them
them in a state of defence before the news
of an adverse vote in this house. Now,
the danger spoken of by the
. I Am pointing out the course to e
steamer can reach
poort
i and
elnat ails aesxs ui
sult inugg, that
bet kept
say: send out

a competent person, armed ull powers, to supersede
the authorities there, and t r4cdording to the circum.
stances of the case. Does t e inOtje lord intend to take
this course, or what course d4fintiutond to take? I have
heard a great deal about conil,4ation--of parties and the
necessity of an appeal to the counti, but an appeal to
the country cannot lead to any result till the end of May.
What is to be going on in China in the meantime ? What
was the purport of the vote on Tuesday! Was that vote
intended to reverse the policy which has been pursued
China or not ? If that vote meant anything it meant that
this house would not be responsible for the conduct of
Sir J. Bowring with respect to the Arrow. I apprehend
that if that vote is to be taken as a reality and to' have a
practical result, the noble lord ;- €0 tell ugbef
we separate this very day what course he intends to tae- et
in consequence of that vote. I say, provide first of all
for the security of Englishmen in China. You have a
forceto do that. But let the noble lord tell us what are his
ulterior intentions with regard to China, and what course
he intends to take with regard to thegoveromentofebioa.
It seems tome that he intimated on Friday night a very
proper course to be taken with regard to the government
of that country. He sail that before these unfortunate
Occurrences took place he had made a proposal-to the
French Government, and was contemplating one with the
American Government, with a view to making a geaeral re.
presentation for greatercommercial fat lities. Teatappears
to. me to be the best practical way of extendiog•our in.
fluence in China. It has always appeared to me that in
order to do that it was necessary to clear the ground
from past proceedings, and to renounce the illegal posi.
tion taken up by Sir J. Bowring. The vote of this hones
has pronounced against those proceedings. You have
now placed yourselves on legal ground, and you can go
to those governments and ask -them to co-operate with
you. I believe they will -operate with you on your
new and legal ground, but that they would not have done
so so long as you were contending with the Government
of China on the miserable and illegal grounds which have
been repudiated by this house. Now, sir, I have only
risen to ask the question which I have put to the noble
lord. Ido not intend to complicate it with the general
election. Ido not fear a general election. I predict

a winnowing and remodelling of the ,state of par-
ti•-s in this house. (Bear, hear.) But there was one
fr%itit...in the noble lord's speech which certainly did
[Mirk me. He said the country would be able 100 judge
between his administration and some• administrat.ma
in posse, formed from amongst right hon. gentlemen
opposite. Now, I do not know how the country can.
judge between the noble lord and the right hon. gentle-
men opposite. So far as my observation g' es, I have
come to the conclusion, that I consider the noble lord at
the head of the Government to be as good a Tory as any
right hon. or hon. gentleman opposite, and whether he
sits on that side of the house or on this will not make
any great difference to the liberties of the country. I
ask the noble lord what is the course he intends to take
in consequence of the vote on Tuesday night ?
Sir C. WOOD—It is not my intention to re-open the
debate, and I am glad that my hon. friend (Vlr. Cobden)
is at last aware that there may be some increased dan-
ger to the lives of our countrymen in Chir:a from the
vote of £Tuesday night. I only wish that be had
thought of that before. (Cheers.) I rise for the
purpose of informing the house IA the state of th•
vessels in China and the measures adopted. I hope
the efficient measures taken wilt preveut the dangers
apprehended from producing any ill effect. There is n
large frigate at Canton (as was understood), an-
other at one of the northern ports, and another is on ita
way. By this time, or in the course of this month, three
large steam-frigates, and seven or eight gunboats will ar-
rive in the river at Canton. A large frigate and two other
vessels will arrive in the course of April, and two more
in the month of May, or in the month of June. Those

orders had been issued previous to this debate, and quite
independent of it, and I can otly assure my bon. friend
that Government are taking measures for sending further
means to China, for the purpose of defending, as far as we
can, the lives and property of Englishmen in China.
Sir J. WALSH was one of those who voted for the
motion, but he should be sorry if the effect of carrying
the resolution should be in the slightest degree to hinder
tier Majesty's Government from taking any steps neces.
Rimy for the protection of the arts and property of Eng.
lishmen in China.

Mr. DE EDES said the noble lord bad stated the course
he intended to take with regard to public business, and
he entirely concurred in it, but he wished to ask the
notle hrd, or some member of the government, what
course they would take with regard to private business ?
In June, 1847, a resolution was carried to the effect that
any railway or other private bill which bad passed the
sec3nd reading, or any subsequent stage, or had been.
referred to a select committee, might be resumed at the
same stage in the ri,xt session.
Mr. S. HERBERT—Before any answer is given to
that question, I wish to call the attention of the govern.
went to the fact that the question of my bon. friend the
West Riding has not been answered. I apprehend the
circumstances in which we are placed are very peculiar.
You have had precedents of an appeal to the people by a
minister placed in a minority, but you will find on a'l
previous occasions it has been a question as to some sub-
ject of legislation on which the opinion of the cJuntry
couldjat once be obtained. In this case the House of
Commons has expressed an opinion adverse to the Go-
vernment, as to the origin of a war now carried oa.
Clearly, therefore, if no pledge is taken from Government
that the war will not be continued by the same individuals of
whose conduct it has already given au unfavourable opi-
nion, the vote come to will be nugatory. Now my hon.
friend who sits beside me (111 r. Cobden) did not say that
he apprehended, in consequence of the vote that was
given, there was danger. What be said, I apprehend,
was thii : that Government considered there was danger ;
and be wished to know, therefore, looking at it in that
point of view, whether they were prepared-to take any
steps to rem3dy it? I repeat the question. I ask what
steps are taken to prevent the danger which those who
have read the papers to-day will see already exists ? You.
have seen the state of things at Hong Kong, and the state
of feeling at Singapore. There is danger, not in conse-
quence of this vote, but what I am alluding to is the
danger which naturally followed from the state of thing*
at Canton ;.and what we wish to know is, what is Go-
vernment going to do during the long interval that will
elapse before Parliament can again be assembled ? Is

:he Government about to continue the war with the

same object, that is, for the introduction into the
city of Canton of Sir John B)wring., and is the con-

duct of affairs out there, b it for peace or for war, to be
left• in the hands of a wan who, in the opinion of the

(louse of Commons, bas by his want of judgment or ca-

pacify brought abort a state of things which is so dan,

geroti (Cheers )

If it is any convenience to the

4overnmeOt to do so, in order to enable the noble I.lrd
to answer this question, I shad be glad to wore that this

debate be adjourned.

The SPEAKER intimated that the right hon. gentle,
man noun not d 3 that, but that the noble lord had a

reply.

'Mr. S. HERBERT—Then I trust the noble lord, or
some member of the Government, will answer that Ties.
tion, but I trust the noble 1 trd.
Sir G. GREY—Is answer to the question of the h3n.
member (Nir. Deedee), I may say it is the intention of
Government to propose a course with respect to private
bills simd it to that which has been adopted before—viz ,
a resolution having the effect of placing bills in a future
Parliament in the seine position that they would have
been in had not the progress with them been interrupted.
With reference tattle question which have been addressed
to the Government by my right hon. friend, I have no
. .

hesitation in saying that I think he made a most entire
misrepresentation of the ground of the hostilities, when
he assumed that the Government are carrying on the
war for the mere purpose of introducing Sir J. Bowring►
into Canton. I have no hesitation in saying that the

....... _____
Government have had their attention most seriously
directed to those &rcatues ta n c e s calculatediftehel
thita that conviction
ttthoe
iirn dduu c et
alarm, the accounts of which have been brought by the
last mail to this country, and tmuhteeiywnstosatininl omtobruet
hfeeeirl
dutythat
the danger to be anticipated is likely to be aggravated
—•
to et•
uwdi
3taeoacanki stetihoheenevi tureord:yut precautiontthyheisbGehfo:vru ee:reGovernment
to protect
and
whichoto
Canton. Theynot
this house as to send out orders to theeaeunthemorpirteiens
defer
nietfih to esraccordance with the feelinvs of the hon. geetdnhteblre.ye
to
ond British
man, act
n• t,othe member for the West Riding of Yorkshire.
They think that to direct our officers there to abandon
have felt it to be their duty
ttohemdaekme,aanodds which
abstain they
stainfrom sending out th 3 means of
enforcing those demands, would be to sacrifice the honour
of the country. With an appeal to the country before
them, they will not shrink from the responsibility of tak-
ing those measures, and of issuing those directiol s, which
they think are consistent With the honour and dignity of
the country, and for the protet tiot of lives and property
—I will not say of the British only, but of all foreigners
residing in China. With respect to ulterior measures, I
that
hc
theai nt g
haveo
best r
can only say the hon. member for the West Riding had
no right to assume that the Government, in consequence
of the vote, had abandoned the intention which was i
aiofftfieupredl
relations with China on a footing of a permanent charac-
ter, by my right bon. friend near me,m
security against ter, and whicht
avrroeucludtheire 0 f
the
Lord J. RUSSELL—I really wish the Government
opinioncala
would enaLle us w understand what are the objects which
taken place there. rri:nc
they say they desire to accomplish. We are about to un.
dtrgo a process of what Mr. Fox and his friends used to
call a renal dissolution. We have come to a certain vote,
and the house of Commons is to be punished for coming
to that vote. That is plainly the situation. Well, the

noble lord at the head of the Government says he cannot
effect the object without the aseistance of the House o

Commons. He asks us to pass certain votes as lightly as
we can, and to grant supplies in order to assist him to
make an appeal-to the country. The right hon. gentle•
man opposite (Mr. Disraeli) said that, for his part—and

suppose speaking for those who act with him—he had a
disposition to give facilities for that purpose. But surely
if the house is to give those, facilities, there is some fair•
ness in asking for an explanation of the policy which is to
be pursued during the three months that will elapse before