The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVEr-ZING, JULY 19, 1844.

--e -
course in the House of dommons. With to the fo.ctly safe in the hands of the Committee, but the j Tetniesty's Government. llitcsrtl.r,over was, he believed, a
'notion before the House, he quite agreed in the statement • Hon. Member ought to furnish the Committee with such when ti-wr: were p± gill," associations-, in Ire"-
suraetn.4l louse must choose between putting the Hon. facts as would enablelheni to test their veracity. • land, and he trust,ed, therei-ore, the Government would
hini to'. for Finsbury on the Committee, or allowing The House then divided, when there. appeared— • not press the Bill. If they did he should feel compelled
examine particular witnesses himself. For the motion
Sir 3
R. I LEL said, be reeds- must ea - that he thought - Against it l4l !to vote tinainst the third reading.
1 Mr. SIIEIL had great objections to the present Bill,
,TA , have been much more consistent with the Majority- against the motion
ILy of the Right lion. Gentleman, if he felt any objet- because it would furnish to informers an opportunity of
UNLAWFUL OATHS IRELAND BILL. carrying on their nefarious trade, which, 'but for this
nufiel't°_,athee constitution of the Committee, that he should On the third reading of the Bill having been proposed, measure, could not be carried on. Whenever the Whigs
•"St t d that objection at the time when it was ap- Mr. M. O'FERRALL rose to oppose it. During the had brought' in Bills that were calculated to extend
Pointed...nu/eat., hear.) If the Hon. Gentleman thought whole time this Bill had been before the House no mem- liberty, the present Government always selected'them
that th
ere ought to have been two Members of the pre- ber of the
.Ministry had given any explanation or state- as matter for avoidance, but when theybrOught in mea-
-7.1, "L, Government on it, and two of the past, or that there ment. sures having a contrary effect, then they were taken as
h';'_ gat to have been lawyers, it would haveeleeen easy for Sir J. GRAHAM—In Committee it was discussed. esfainples.—(Near, hear.) The Hon. Member for Kil-
deinwt,o have made a motion to that effect. Tile Right Hon. Mr. M. O'FERRALL—Yes, there was some discus dire had asserted that the Bill was not only liable to
kentLeman complained of the exclusion of the Hon. sion in Committee, but there had been no Ministerial abuse, but that it had been productive of abuse, and
forFinsbury. R hy, the Earl of Radnor, who had statement on the principle of the Bill, or the reasons that too in a most serious degree. In 1842 a case ocs
I;4_ t forward the charge in the House of Lords, had which induced the Government to press it on the House. eurred in Armagh, where a person of the name of-Ha-
nna. excluded by his own consent, although lawyers were —lronical cries of " Hear, hear," from Sir R. Peel.) He gan, having incited parties to commit a crime, informed
taVeted. The appointment of such eminent lawyers in understood the meaning of the Right Hon. Baronet's of it. He did not accuse the Government of being
" use of Lords was a decided proof that the Govern- cheers. That the late Ministry had done so—(Renewed party to such things, but they must know that such
went
had no wish to exclude lawyers. cries of " Hear, hear," from the Mieisterial benches)—
Mr LAB things existed ; that informers took advantage of the
ne • OUCHERE said that the Right Hon. Gen- but it was proposed under very different circumstances, Act, and that the police had employed them had been
man had a little misunderstood the nature of his ob- efter a Committee of the House of Lords had sat for four proved in a court of justice. Hagan, it was true, was
ei'lio He had expressed his surprise that the Govern- nonths on the state of Ireland.—(Hear from the Opposi- dismissed when he was found out ; but there were many
the
,‘ in one place had attached the greatest importance to tion.) When the Government asked for a continuance of a eases that might not he found out at all ; and that he
luicik'_enitnittee being soconstituted as to exclude lawyers stringent law he thought they were bound to prove a looked upon ns substantiating their case, and, added to
co,,,_e?c.Ministers, while in another place the Committee case of absolute necessity for it. They were bound to this, it was well known that Ireland was a country
'wined two lawyers and three ex-Ministers. show that heretofore they had exercised their power fertile with informers. Had the House forgotten that,
:Mr. V. SMITH said he had understood, when he leniently, and without injustice. They were bound to in Kilkenny. a person, high in the constabulary, had cm-
eel!! drn for the Comneittee, that no members of the Go- prove that they could not with safety carry on the ployed a policemen to go to a printer, and induce him to
" oat were to be concerned in the investi- public service without a continuance of this stringent print a seditious ballad, in order- that he might after-
attgration, The Government ought to have acted the law. Such, however, had not been the case The law wards prefer a charge against the man whom he had
inde in one place as another. The Committee had been most shamefully abused. It had been the induced to commit crime ?—(Hear, h..ar.) Where they
box,
not placed the Hon. Member for Finsbury in the means of sending spies amongst the unfortunate peasan- had a knowledge of the people, and what was going on,
n nand said, "We will report you to the House ir you try of Ireland. These spies had induced the peasantry was it wise or prudent to insist upon an Act like
hnie"°t answer, as they ought to have done—(Hear, to form combinations. And all this system of spies had the present? By the present Bill they were making
ientr,the public would now know that there was infor- been carried on with the sanction of Government. He that a crime which ought only to be evidence of a crime.
0n
be in the hands of a Member of that House which admitted that this was a strong cherge to make, but it The measure was only brought in from due necessity in
el had not been pressed to give. In the Committee on applied with double force to the Noble Lord the Score-
3
'en compromises the House had not scrupled to tees- for Ireland. When he (Mr. M. O'Ferrall) contrasted elxBis9t—init was not necessary in 1840, and it ought not to
1844. Let the Government foilow the advice of ' put 'n
thet accuser' on the Committee and in the chair of the declarations which the Noble Lord had made on the Hon. Member for Kildare, and make as little distinc-
Nttsle should therefore move that the Hon. Manners taking office with his subsequent acts, he felt that tione between this country and Ireland as possible ; he
e„!'n, and Mr. T. Duncombe be added to the Committee. he had good ground of complaint. The Noble Lord trusted they would not avail themselves of a majority to
question having been put, could not deny that such acts as those to which draw a line of demarcation between England •and
the "e O'CONNOR DON referred to what had been he (Mr. M. O'Ferrall) had alluded had occurred within the Irelend.
ti;en.hY the Committee with regard to the presence of Noble Lord's knowledge. The Noble Lord could not Mr. T. B. C. SMITH (Attorney-General for Ireland)
e0„,1,"n. Member for Finsbury. He did not think it deny that such acts occurred in 1842, and that he per- complained that questions had been mixed up with the
te '''ku he right for the House to rescind the resolution mitted them to be repeated in 1843 and 1844. He present discussion in no wayconnected with the question
thsw„"ich it had come when it negatived the proposition would prove what he had stated ; and the first case to before the House. Allusion had been made to the State
n,;„` Be should be a member of the Committee. If the which he would allude was a prosecution which took Trials, but he would not discuss the subject, except to
sen';e Nitember were allowed to be present. it would be place at Armagh, in the spring of 1842. Several persons state that, he considered himself perfectly justified in the
nwa ent to his being a member of the Committee, were prosecuted under the provisions of the Unlawful observationshe had made at the close of the proceedings.
reeuet say it was dne to the Government to say that Oaths Bill. The principal witness azainst them stated With respect to the present case, the Hon. Mem.ber for
ne,`"rmation which the Committee thought desirable that he had made Ribbonmen by the hundred—thet he Kildare had confounded the character of a spy with that
tr;Withheld. It was given to the greatest extent. He was in the habit of attending ribbon meetings, at which of- an informer, although they were perfectly distinct.
result the House would withhold its opinion as to the he prepared the documents. This he had been directed After having received the information of an, informer,
hseit till the Committee had made its report' to the to do by the magistrates in the neighbourhood, The to make use of him as an instrument tai entrap others
00,1,1sse----(Hear, hear.) He thought the conduct of the next witness examined was a policeman named Fox, into the commission' of crime was unjustifiable, and no
hare„ ittee had been impughned.—(No, no.) But there who said he went amongst the peasantry, and by false- man in that House would denounce it more strongly
eon, wen a degree of investigation which he thought hood induced them to enter into combinations. Mr. White- than he would—(Hear. hear) —but in all prosecutions for
nid have surprised the Hon. Gentleman himself. side, than whom a more eloquent pleader did not live, was the administration of unlawful oaths, they were corn-
-14,;1e SPEAKER said that the proposition made had the counsel for the prisoners. Judge Crampton, in sum- pelted to prove that the words found on any person
11.. already negatived, and it could not be put again, ming up, said the conduct of G. Fox, the policeman, to were actually the pass-words of the particular society
tow,;* HUME asked whether the same proposition say the least of it, was uncommon, for he 'went about fa- stated in the indictment. and this evidence could only be
Ran' not be negatived twice under different ctrcum- hrieating falsehoods. He went on to say that Mr. given by an informer, who had been connected with the
The
Whiteside, the counsel, had preferred. a' charge which society. It was. impossible to prosecute without such
n4tllle SPEAKER said that a proposition having been was most disreputable to the Government. The news- evidence, On this point he would read the opinion of
the e which was negatived, it was not usual to renew paper in which this case was reported did not state what Lord Plunkett, who admitted the necessity of having the
fore::42! Proposition in the same session, but it was dif- the charge was, but it was not difficult to imagine it. evidence of the informer.—(The Hon. Gentleman read a
tssnn with regard to orders for papers where amended re- The Learned Judge said he thought the charge had been passaee from a charge to the jury, by his Lordship, in a
s
, re required to be made. unintentionally made, but Mr. Whiteside got up. and trial for this offence.) He could also adduce the au-
-1,41,1r. 'V. WILLIAMS rose to address the House amidst said, " No, my Lord, and so far from retracting' it, I re- thority of his Iron. and Learned Friend the: Member for
lleo.eries of "Divide, divide," and much confusion. The itesert it."—(Hear, hear.) This was a subject which the Clonmel, who, when Attorney-General for Ireland,
then Gentlemann said that it was most important that Noble Lord ought not to have suffered to pass over conducted the prosecution in the case of " the Queen v.
Ceeulie should be satisfied with the proceedings of the without investigation ; but no such step had been taken. Jones," in which he made use of evidence of this kind,
orinlmitten No charge had been brought against the Here were a certain number of men employed by the after stating the_ defeats of the existing law, and the
nied,lbittee, but it had been stated that they could not agents of the Government to seduce persons to enter into necessity of some statute like the one under discussion.
the t;et the inquiry as it ought to be conducted unless this sort of conspiracies—giving them the signs and To show that the evidence of informers was generally
Sine "°- Member for Finsbury were empowered to exa- pass-words—swearing them in to become Ribbondmen, admitted, he cited a case in which a man named Ken-
tnn certain witnesses. Grave charges had been brought or members of some wicked society or other, and then nedy was examined, who was proved to be of the most
the enst her Majesty's Government both with regard to betraying them to the Government ; who, in their turn, depraved character, having even assisted id the eommi•-
ljeeing of letters and- to the conduct of the Post- look upon then as most efficient officers, and promote sion -of murder. Having read this man's evidence, the
iinc,Great excitement existedin the public mind on the and reward them accordingly, lie ( Mr. O'Ferrall) Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman said that no person
the ie• The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for should not think of opposing the renewal of this Bill could he more sensible than himself the improprietyt.of
thin
Department replied that he had done nothing if he could not justify his refusal of the powers it gave to employing what were properly called eites: the dß-
,tita b had been done by his predecessors, and than the Government by the statements he had made to the tinctien between one of these men and an informenmust
gent!" the usual practice of his office. The Hon. House. The laws, he admittod, should be administered be remembered. must also. be recollected that, in the
ntir tier for Finsbury had called for a Committee of Ir.- with strictness, with energy, and with vigour, but at the case of secret societies, it was impossible to arrve at any
,lti4 Lad, contrary to the practice of the House, the same time with justice ; and proof should be given to proof, 'unless they got the testimony of some person Con-
ainanllen. Baronet, who was the party accused, had the people that the law was not enacted for vengeance, fleeted with them. With respect to the case in the.
eonf PrOposed the list of the gentlemen who were to but for protection. The Government should, by the county of Sties° mentioned by the Hon. Member for Kil-
betre the Committee of Inquiry. He .did not deny enactment of their laws and the administration of them, dare, the policeman's name was Ogle, anti he suborned a
all in at the gentlemen constituting that Committee were satisfy the people of Ireland, as the people of England man-to charge another a ith having administered an un-
es a est honourable men, but they were all friends either were satisfied, that the law was their best friend, and lawful oath. Of that he might have been guilty under
tes`ti: late or of the present Government, who were the that, so long as they kept within its pale, it would be the Act of George 111., and the present Act would pi-o-
de t implicated ; and however honourable their cony their never-failing safeguard. They should induce the vide no remedy for Steal a case. Under the whole of the
th:ntaight be in the management of that Committee, Irish people to have faith in it. But at present they had circumstances, he trusted there was sufficient grounds
decision would not give satisfaction as they were at no confidence in 'it, and they were justified ; for when for the present Bill.
berseateonstituted. Her Majesty's Government could not they contrasted the trials of the Chartists and other per- The O'CONOR DON was glad that' the Right Hon.
that they would be acting wisely_ if they were to sons in England with the trials for political offences in and Learned Gentleman had drawn a distinction be
Is Pt the • . .
inseor Proposition of adding the Hon. Member for Ireland, they saw too plainly that justice meant a very tween spies and inf_ rmers. and he _hoped the Gover.n-
'aeti" to the Committee. It would give great satis- different thing in one country to what it did in 'mother. went would in future repudiate the assistance of the m-
ance it"' the public. On a question of so much import- —(Hear, hear.) In the trials in England every man, in former ; but, unfortunately, in Ireland the man who had
'lktisfted was necessary that the public mind should be every quarter, was satisfied that the law was adminis- been employed as an informer, generally became. a spy.
"le and the country would not be satisfied unless tered with mercy and justice, and with the simple and Being an outcast, he was compelled to attach himself. to
Mr. ee,"ember for Finsbury were on the Committee. proper view of vindicating the law and maintaining the the police of his district, in order. to supply them with
that h ttlfTT, as a member of the Committee, felt institutions of the country • but he (Mr. O'Ferrall) was information. In the Sligo case, it was proved that the
Ln°,Lltlies*:,s Placed in a very peculiar position. The satisfied that this creditable construction could not be man Kane was entirely sopport,nl by the police. The
Wiled, 1 the Members of the Committee were put upon the administration of the law in Ireland. But Crown prosecutors were so ashamed of the man's testi.
eatß.;n the
course of the debate it had been alleges; it would be urged against him, that he had been a party mony, that they retired in disgust from the court, and
ad it
nessa that certain evidence should be ex- to the original enactment of this law. He admitted he when evidence was called to the character of the pri-
wasnnelen'' Order to make the inquiry complete, but it had. -But the state of the country was very different now saner, the jury said they did not require any, and ac-
atrear stated whether or not the Committee had to what it was at that period. Why, there was more pro- quitted him. But the worst of these cases was, the bad
aline! had that evidence before them. The Com- perty destroyed in one month now in the two counties of impression they left on the minds of the people. At the
rally f, were endeavouring to pursue their duty faith- Suffolk and Norfolk, than had been destroyed in the previous assizes two men were transported on the evi-
Net e diligently, and they had done so without re• whole of Ireland for many months past—(Hear, hear) Hence of this man, whose testimony in this case was re
St e*() either party in that House. They had had —and yet they heard of no such Act as this being jected. This produced a feeling of universal distrust and
Ila-41131e evidence placed at their disposal by her passed for the governing of the English' people.—(Hear, suspicion, which was exceedingly injurious. In another
thn'estY's Government.—(Hear, hear.) With regard te hear.) He (Mr. O'Ferrall) was at present sincere in his case, a clergyman, named Day, was fired at in the
tho. Proposal more immediately before the House, he desire for the maintenance of the union, and was willing county of Roseommon, and the parties having been
adou3ht it would be a most inconvenient course to to bear, as best he could, the unpopularity which at- traced, it was discovered that the identical man who had
they,' to admit any, gentleman on the Committee on wiled to all those who held such opinions, and dared to fired the shot was an informer, who had convicted several
thr.atelnms proposed. The Committee had already gone give expression to them. The continuance of that cam- men in the county -of Louth.
seel'egh a great deal of evidence, and it would be a great mon compact was alike cherished by large majorities of Sir R. PEEL said he hoped the proposal of the Go-
eow"llenience if any gentleman were to be admitted persons on both sides of that House; but see what an vernment to continue' this Bill would not lead to any
whienr the Committee without knowing _the evidence argument was furnished against them by the enactment misconstruction as to their experience with regard to
whethenalheen gone into already. He could not know of such harsh, repulsive, and unequal laws as this.— the employment of spies. He did not believe there was
proved titnat evidence might not have proved or dis- (Hear, hear.) The Government, by their eonduct, much difference as to the employment of persons; but
bring for: P articular allegations which ho wished to were daily taking from those friendly to the union the in this country, or in Ireland, to reject the evidence of
sition in nra• If any gentleman were placed in the strong and useful arguments they were anxious to re- informers—of men, who, without any previous connec-
ember for it it was proposed to place the Hon. taro, and were putting most powerful weapons into the tion of the parties; who had been really and bona fide
should n" Finsbury, it would be necessary that he hands of all who now thought, or who might feel it their concerned in crirne,.would be to defeat the ends of cri-
treacly been acquainted with the evidence which had duty hereafter, to enrol themselves amongst the friends minal justice. He recollected that in some of the most
"'theta.° "`en given before that Committee. He had of the repeal cause.—(Hear, hear.) With such opinions aggravated cases of murder, the conviction of the mur-
eite Word acted on the principle of not saying as these of their conduct and its tendency, he (Mr. derer depended upon the evidence -of the accomplice.—
tlitien of °r giving one vote, as to the Consti- O'Ferrall) felt it his chitty to move that " the Bill be (Hear, hear.) Look to the case of Mr. Baker. A pet-
the item that Committee. On a former occasion when read a third time that day six months!,
son named Keating had employed five or six persons to
ketishe; eMember fin. Finsbury had been proposed as a Lord ELior said the Right Hon: Gentleman had murder him, and he was afterwards the person who
tal th •etit he would • en no vote, nor should he vote brought a charge against the Government, which, gave evidence against those whom he employed. He
hou e pre„
ibeine e„,'' at occasion. He merely rose to caution the coming from him, was most extraordinary—namely, received a rewardn 2.0001., and he actually instituted
bei"' t draw any inference from the silence of the that they had brought forward this Bill without going an action against the' Government for not giving him
-Ntr. the Committee.—(Hear, hear.) into any explanation of its provisions. Why, the Go- more.—(Much laughter.) The parties wore convicted
ke. withdrew his motion. vernment of which that Right Hon. Gentleman was a but they were not executed. This wretch was con-
'eels "UNCOMBE wished merely to say a few member, had not only in the year 1839 brought forward stamen, complaining because he did not get more.
treat •si The Right Hon. Gentleman said it would be a this very same Bill, word for word irs it now stood, with- To reject the evidence of informers, therefore,
q en, lcaon the Committee, if he were added to it in out entering into its merits, but they had passed it into a would be impossible. With regard to the employment
TP eon' Proposed—it would be a still greater slur upon law without inviting or entering into any discussion upon of spies, or persons who performed the functions of
he x'rnittee sir he were added to it as a member. it whatever.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The Right what were called spies, he would say, that to send
4141 ti °ble Lord ;aid. that it would be tantamount to Hon. Gentleman, too, was actually one of the authors of men with authority to invite others to,
commit crime,
Isitt:4 him
d t a member -of the Committee, if he were per- a Bill which, when the Government asked the House to by entering into a secret society, and then for the Go-
tieltses, oenhe present during the examination of wit renew for only a limited period, he now abused in a vernment to avail itself of information se obtained—that
sat the (Hear, hear.) They might just as well say most virulent mermen—(Heer, hear.) It was as well he thought that a Government which was guilty of
114 Was counsel who proved the preamble of a private known to the Right HOu. Gentleman, as to any one at such an act ought itselt to be visited with a punishment
ns:aisluela member of' a Committee.----(Hear, hear.) All all acquainted with Ireland, that for fifty or sixty years .as severe as that of the guilty parties.—(Hear, hear,
intkitie-to was to he permitted to be present at the exa• past secret societies of one kind or another, and under and cheers.) Nothing could be more dangerous, dis-
co
to of certain witnesses, whom he was pre- one name or another—but all of them most abominable graceful, or more calculated to bring disrepute on the
eh era,) Produce to prove his charge. (Loud and wicked associations—had existed in that country ; administration of justice.—(Hear, hear.). The Govern-
attlte had would the Noble Lord say that that and that the members of them were bound by the most went ought to be more ceutious with regard to em-
e-geseno,heen either proved or disproved.--(Cheers.) horrible oaths to obey the commands, however horrid playing a man in future, who gave information of some ,
sess. by nesbes he would produce had not yet been palled; and murderous, of the leaders of them. It was not ne- crime which was passed, because be would be likely to
41;7_ st accent and most searching inquiry, amounting cessary for him (Lord Eliot) to enlarge on the evils that incite others to trim that he might make himself of
snalike , Persecution, which had been instituted at the had attended every step of these societies. It was for imeortence.—(Loua cries of _" Hear," and cheers.)
o thet°the Government, in order to ascertain who it the Right lion. Gentleman himself (Mr. O'Ferrall), if he Those were the"principles of the Government, and the
fi7 Ilk., had given him (Mr. D,) this information, it opposed the Bill altogether, or desired any relaxation of subordinate agents of the Government in Ireland ought
ep the 'sarY that there should be a searching scrutiny, its provisions, to prove that these evils did not now to know that the' Government would not countenance
po~ le
tten, tter-carrier up to the opener and the sealer exist, and that if the societies did exist, they were at any person who incited. others to commit crime ; and
pi:nett nnin short, through all the ramifications of the least become powerless. But this he had failed to do— that if they resorted to those acts, they would meet
k tit ee- He would ask the Bight Hon. Baronet a ot rather, he had not attempted to do.—(Hear, hear.) with no
Tharpencouagement from the Government.—(Hear,
lestio •
lett,, 0. Did he ever open or cause to be opened For his (Lord Eliot's) part, he should consider no mea- hear.) was the princi:,le on which h. is Noble
tit of ~:°1 his (Mr. Duncombe's)—(Laughter, and sure too stringent which could, consistently with jue- Friend acted. Those who had once become informers,
aaa had netiear, hear ")—since the Right Hon, Gentle the, put down these societies wherever they existed. had lost their ordinary occupation—their character was
iUn 11 tnet'en in office ? He considered it a very gross And how could the Government effect this object, but blasted. They, therefore, wished to be able to bring
,tt„
,any letter of any Member of that House, hay by Bills such as this, and by the oceasienal aid of the forward new cases, and o.n that account it wns nne.es-
Ve thictinn oaths of allegiance, and holding the posi- approvers ? sary that the greatest caution should be used in giving
an 'tight `ls', should have their letters opened.—(Hear.) Mr. M. O'FERRALL—But not of spies. them employment in future.—(Hear, hear.) He was
asssk iehe:,oll. Baronet could have no hesitation in Lord ELIOT said surely there was a difference be- sure that the convictions fir the possession ofpass-words
ai eist ""er or not he opened his letters; for, if they tween an approver and a spy. Besides, the evidence of required the greatest eatrion, and the Government.
(it diNetPened by the Bight lion. Gentleman, or by an approver was rarely, if ever, relied upon, unless there ought to watch the conduct of subordinate agents with
tiar, 41°48. they were opened by other hands.— was corroborative testimony to support it. The greatest great care. The Bill would only remain in force for a,
'as-Le• -4e1%) Investigation was, therefore, most de- vigilance and precaution were used, and whenever the year, it would then undergo serious censideration before
Committee ought to have allowed him to slightest suspicion of unfair pl ly reached the Govern- it was renewed, and in the interval during which it re-
asin eoiene tilt of witnesses which he held in his hand. ment, the most determined measures were taken to bring mained in force, the utmost vigilance would be exer-
dee`4(4 trttee should increase its authority in com- the offending parties to condign punishment. Why, in eised on the part of the Government. But he was sorry
tole'a attendance of witnesses to give evi- the very ease instanced by the Bight Hon. Gentleman—. that when her Majesty's Government came forward to
tisins% was willing, before a Committee of either that of Ogle—he had been cominitted to gaol—he was renew the :Act which was in existence when they came
ntiesZailn 4
Then
his allegations.—(Hear, hear.) in gaol now—and was going to be tried on a charge of into office, that thatcircumstance should be taken advan-
..
Then have all the charges he had made inves- subornation of perjury.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") tare of in order to hold them up as enemies to the
!inn: game Committee had no right to say he refused But the Bight Hon. Gentleman had drawn a parallel be- liberties of Ireland.—(Hear.) Their predecessors brought
ateiel',4l ,etheir inquiries or assist them in the inves- tween tho enactment of laws for England and ;related in the Bill, andiwhen'they,were charged with indifference
diten'Y ieh",.aese charges. He had offered them every which would not hold. He (Lord Eliot) would ask the to the peace of Ireland, they came forward and pointed
kniti7s is power. Some of his witnesses were saber- Right Hon. Gentleman, in sober earnestness, if he really to this Bill which they passed for the suppression of un-
tie k":ir /)1;1111, Post:office, and he would not wish to give meant to compare the state of Suffolk and Norfolk, with lawful assemblies. It was said that the Bill originated
lt.th.;e‘v tee. si unless he were present to protect them. reference to the Bill then under diecussion, with the in a Committee of the House. of Lords, but the late Go-
ulet:ea' sue;„l evidence would compromise the conduct state of Ireland? Were there any secret societies, ad- vernment said' it• was their own spontaneous act.—
qsert t r;rrs, and their superiors would be most re- ministering unlawful oaths, and binding men to the (Loud cries of "Hear, hear.)" It remained in force;
"'h4 titel;h:"°%l them to attend. He thought it was commission of the most atrocious crimes in Norfolk and and now that the present Government proposed to con-
kltte it'as ae-fi'ees:arY that some one should be present Suffolk, or in any other part of England. No such tinue it for a year, Hon. Gentlemen opposite came for-
ilc.l,4,4_,"ited with all the circumstances of the thing. And if there were such societies existing in any ward and charged them with being.disposed to be tyran
hivativthe House and the public that the part of England, he dare pledge his life that the con- nical.—(Cheers.) It therefore became necessary to tell
I%,,,,s4ttlifaet_th_--the labours of the Committee—would not fidential Ministers of the Crown would come down to • thehruth.—(Hear, hear.) 'Hon. Gentlemen opposite per.
after' het iutry,sionclusive, or complete, if those witnesses Parliament and demand exactly the same extent of mitted the Billto go through the House ofCommonswith-
Npeajerrogated, The Hon. Member coneluded, powers as they considered necessary in the case of out saying one cord in opposition to ic.—(Cheers.) In
Sig ng the question to Sir James Graham, by Jreland.—(Hear, hear.) The Ministers felt it their the book which contained the proceedings of the Howse
th r ool('
e Gatnnee Pe severe in hie motion. duty to ash for a renewal of this Bill, but on that Bill, he could not find the name of the person
eseaccustomy that no gentleman in still they asked it only for a limited period. whgintroduced it —the name of a single speaker was not
was less ed (if he might use the ex- The late Ministry wouldnnot, not, in 1839, have introduced found.—(Hear, hear.) lt was 'described, " Unlawful
h'n" l'aPcnring than the Hon. Member for Fins- this measure, had they not been convinced of its neces• Oaths (Ireland) Bill ;" introduced, first
.reading, second
es-`1 bee new that, consistent with his sense of duty, repetition of that Bill. He should, therefore, feel it to one of the gentlemen opposite opposed the continuance
110 t an
e 4. and • sWer.—(" Hear, hear,"
.from the Tory be his duty to persevere in the motion, that the Bill of the Act when 'their friends were in power, or thought
thet,klretenn Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) He should now be read a third time. it worth while to urge a single objection against it; and
kit cen4 6tated to the House, firmly but respectfully, Mr. M. I). BELLEW supported the amendment. lie when the Bill was under discussion in the House of
444,(1° so !tent with his sense of duty, he could thought it was but fair that Hon. Members should draw Lords, those words, " Having an unlawful excuse," which
agap of gut and he must be the judge' of what his an inference from the manner in which Government had were not in the Bill originally, were introduced by one
in Ireland, for the purpose who was a member of a Conservative Administration.—
j44i:lieistsetter tnhanaihtdiaet:ebslesetinn.n.llewhcozldthneota„
appointment
tnwleonutldornoat
oecfteshdowwiinth
hreoswpecthteytowjouuri
idesact in other cases. The in- ! (Loud cheers.) He read the Bill—(Cheers)—and took,
moved for, he had stated without cautious showing how
in which the Attorney-General for by the introduction of those words, the precaution
14.4 Q, . without reserve the course he meant to Ireland had made statementsr in that House, would not against the possible punishment of innocence.— (Hean
en Y. Ong Previously obtained the consent of her ' give much confidence to Honourable Mende rs as to the ' hear.) He suggested that addition, which !mil nev.,r
Pladke the tithe word and honour of a gentleman he course he would pursue if the present Bill passed.
occurred to Hon. Gentlemen oppoeito—and if there
he He "Lust degree since then redeemed that There was a
great difference in the administration were mitigation and se..recy evino;:td lig-vast the panish•
aid 441."'Itiitt 44 been two or three days en/mined before of justice in Ireland and this country; here everything went of innocence, that mitigation mid that secrecy were
tzlelittnd his examination had not ye; con- was free from taint, but that was not the case in Ireland. entirely owing to one who was a Minister in a Conser-
°f hi
" t that he should be supported hy both In that country parties were brought before magistrates ' vative Government.—(Loud cheers.) Let them recollect
Stl e
whi_, use in his resolution not to answer the of a different religion to theinselve.., and who on that . the imputations they cast upon the Government, with
tire
enn the 80,
014 the r enboa
said Gentleman had put to 'him. account were prejudiced against them, and would no regard to the Arms Bill. The Government reminded
not the Committee was willing to doubt be tried by a jury selected by a partisan sheriff.— Hon. Gentlemen_ opposite that they let the Bill pass
guarantee to the .witneases• 444. (Heai, hear.) The House ought, therefore, to he more when proposed 'fiy the Government of which they ap-
'seen 'atee Pro.tection" any witnesses before their ictutiotis in giving power to the executive in Ireland . proved, and now, when the Government came forward
-"°er (.1.5 receive from the preeence of the Hone thalt Aja country- This might be a small matter, but this session to continue the
introducedU ni awf Unlawful
b
atuslitarOaths
claimed ( rel a nbdy)
.Y. The witneesee wOlkid be per. it was we OS §49Wpd the views and tendency of her ' Bill; the credit of ham;

the Government who persuaded them, it was found out clause 53 the following clause should be inserted:-
tO be an intolerable injustice to Ireland.—(Hear. hear.) " And whereas by the.said Act, passied in the 55th year
He (lid not mean to sly that !lon. Gentlemen opposite of the reign of King George the Third, it is enacted that
might not have Opposed the Bill for the welfare of Ire- if any person or persons Shall desert, or run away from
land ; but it was neither fair nor wise to add to the any workhouse or workhouses, and carry away with him,
excitement of Ireland, by imputing to the Government her, or them, any clothes, linen, or other goods, as afore-
intentions which they could hardly rselly and seriously said, such person or persona being thereof lawfully con-
think they entertained.—(Hear hear.) He gave the victsd, either by the confession of such party or parties,
Hon. Gentlemen opposite all credit for the firmness with or by the oath or oaths of one or more credible witness
Which" they had resisted the -attempts made to induce or witnesses, before any justice or justices of the peace,
them to join in the repeal agitation, but, when they said be forthwith committed to the common gaol or house of
it was difficult to resist the cry for repeal, seeing that correction, there to remain without bail or mainprise for
there was a different law applicable to England and Ire- the space of three calendar months ; and it is further
land, he begged to remind them that, in 1839, they gave enacted, that in case any person or persons maintained
their cordial support to this very Bill.—(Cheers.) He in any public workhouse or workhouses established for
admitted that the criminal law of England and Ireland the relief, maintenance, and employment of the poor shall
ought to be substantially the same.—(Hear, hear.) lie refuse to work at any occupation or employment suited to
would not contest that principle. All he complained of his, her, or their age, strength and capacity,
wee that an attempt was made to raise what he called or shall be guilty of drunkenness or other
unjust clamour against them for 'taking a course less misbehaviour, every such person or persons, being thereof
open to objection than that which was taken by the lawfully convicted before any justice or justices of the
Government which they supported themselves.—(Hear.) peace, shall thereupon, by such justice or justices of the
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL thought there was more of peace, be committed to the common gaol or house of
ingenuity than candour in what had fallen from the correction, there to remain without bail or mainprize for
Right Hon. Baronet. The Irish Members supported any period of time not exceeding twenty-one days, and
this Bill in 1839, when there was nothing beyond mere during such time to be kept to hat d labour. And whereas
conjecture that the provisions of the Bill would be it is desirable that justices of the peace should have a
abused. Now they resisted its continuance, because power to commit such persons as are first mentioned for
they had experience of its being abused. He hoped the a period of less than three months, and such persons as
words of the Right lion. Baronet would be attended to are last mentioned for a period greater than twenty-one
by the officials in Ireland, and that they would form part days, in cases of repeated offences ; be it therefore
of the instructions to the stipendiary magistrates. If enacted, that it shall be lawful for any. justice or justices
his Right Hon. Friend pressed his motion to a division, to commit any such pers ms as are first mentioned to the
he would vote with him ; but, after the speech of the common gaol or house of correction, to be kept there in
Right Hon. Baronet, he thought he would do better to the manner provided by the said recited Act for any
withdraw it.—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Escott.) He (Mr. period not less than seven days, nor greater than three
M. J. O'Connell) thought the cheer of the lion. and months, and to commit any such persons as are last men-
Learned Gentleman was most unfair. He came down tioned, in case such persons have been before convicted
to the House prepared to vote with his Right Hon. of a like offence, to the common gaol or -house of correc-
Friend ; but he took the explanation of the Right lion. tion, in manner provided by the said Act, for any period
Baronet in the spirit in which it was given.—(Hear.) not exceeding forty-two days."
Lord ELIOT explained. Captain PECEIELE, thought this was an excellent
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN said that on his side of the alteration.
House there was every disposition to take the proposition The clause was then agreed to.
of the Hon. Gentleman in a fair spirit.—(Hear, hear.) Sir J. GRAHAM proposed to insert the following
Mr. ROSS did not think there was any necessity for clause after clause 63 :—" And whereas it is provided
the Bill, but that there was not was owing to the exer- by the said first-recited Act, ' that all rules, orders, and
tions of the Roman Catholic clergyewho set themselves regulations made by the said Commissioners, under the
against secret societies, and the habits of temperance authority of the said Act, shall be as valid and binding,
which they inculcated upon the people. • ' and shall be obeyed and observed as if the same were
Dr. BOWRING was much interested as an English- specifically made by and embodied in the same Act,'
man in this discussion. He thought the Bill a harsh one, but no sufficient provision is made for bringing such
but every credit was due to the Right Hon. Gentleman orders to the knowledge of courts of justice : be it there-
for the benevolent interpretation which he put on it. He fore enacted, that any copy of any such rule, order, or
though there was a good deal in the taunt of the Right regulation, printed by the printer duly authorised by her
Hon. Gentleman against . those Ii ialluien who supported Majesty or any of her royal predecessors or successors,
the Bill under the late Government. . shall, after the lapse of fourteen days from the date
Mr. M. O'FERRALL expressed himself so satisfied thereof, be received in evidence, and judicially taken
with the speech of the Right lion. Baronet, which he notice of, and shall; until the contrary be shown, be
considered so much more useful thane& division, that he deemed sufficient proof that suet order was duly made
would not divide the House.,-(Hear.) He would sug- and is in force." The clause had been suggested by the
gest that the punishment of transportation should be Solicitor-General to remedy a defect in the law.
changed to two years' imprisonment. The-clause was agreed to. ---•
Sir R. PEEL said it would be better to leave the mat- Mr. SCOTT then proposed the following clause :
ter to the responsibility of Government. " Provided always, and be it further enacted, that
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the Bill wherever overseers shall have, for the first time, been
was read a third time and passed. separately appointed for any township or village, since
POOR-LAW. the 14th day of August, A. D. 1834, all persons who,
On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM the House went in case such township or village had been a township or
into Committee on the Poor-law Amendment Bill. village maintaining its own poor from time immemorial,
Clause 61 was agreed to. would have been legally settled in such township or vil-
. .
On clause 62 being proposed, loge, shall be considered to have their place of settle.
Mr. SCOT r objected to the clause, as an attempt 10 ment in such township or village notwithstanding, at the
give justices of quarter sessions power to act as judges occurrence of the circumstances conferring any such
of assize, having to decide difficult points of law. right of settlement, such township -or village was united
Sir J. GRAHAM said, that at present the board, of with a larger district for the maintenance of the poor ;
guardians were exposed to very unfair inconvenience as and every such person shall or may be removed to such
respected the debts due to them.. The persons of the township or village, as to his or her place of last legal set-
guardisns themselves were not responsible for, debts in- tlement."rhe clause was intended to remedy this evil.
eurred, and even when actions were decided in the cre- Many townships had separated. themselves from other
ditor's favour, there was no property to be seized. Al- townships with which they were joined in the rate to the
though a novel enactment, it was a necessary one. relief of the poor. The consequence was, that those
Mr. DARBY objected to the clause, because it gave paupers belonging to the separated townships, who were
no power of appeal. not resident in the parish at the time of the separation,
Sir J. GRAHAM postponed the clause, for the par- could not be removed to them, and the maintenance of
pose of taking the matter into consideration. such paupers was thrown upon the other parishes. The
Oa the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, clause 63 was present clause would prevent such occurrences for the
struck out. • future, and the object of the prod clause was to
Clause 64 was agreed to. remedy the evils which had occurred.
On Clause 65 being proposed, Sir J. GRAHAM admitted the existence of the evil,
Captain PECHELL said he had yesterday called the but the present measure would prevent its recurrence.
attention of the Right Hon, Baronet to a case in which a The evil, however, had as yet gone to a very small exs
woman, wishing to see her relation, who was about to be tent, and he thought that the litigation to which the
confined in a workhouse, was not allowed access to her. clause would give rise a ould be a greater evil than the
He wished to know whether the Right Hon. Baronet had one it was intended to remedy. The poor could not be
given that subject his consideration with a view to some injured, as 'they would have to be maintained as casual
future regulation ? lie also complained of the employ- paupers in the unions in which they were domiciled.
ment of the inmates of workhouses in grinding bones, Mr. SCOTT knew of an instance in which forty pau-
and hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would express his pers were maintained by a township in which they had
disapprobation of such a system.
no settlement, in consequence of their own township se-
to superintend the working of the poor-law, it was im-
Sir JAMES GRAMAM said that, with every desire parating in the manner in which he had stated. He
thought no difficulty could arise in carrying the clause
possible for him to attend to every minute regulation. into effect.
Power was granted to the guardians, subject only to the Sir J. GRAHAM wished the Hon. and Learned
control of the guardians, and he was persuaded that in Gentleman to explain what the precise meaning of the
every well-regulated workhouse, admission in cases like words " legally settled" was?
that mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman would be granted. Mr. SCOTT said, settlement in a township from time With reference to the introduction of bone-grinding in immemorial.
workhouses, he had last year, he di.l now, and he would Sir J. GRAHAM said he would consider the matter,
on all occasions, express his dissent to the use of that and trusted they would arrange it in a satisfactory
particular employment.—(Hear, hear.) manner on a future occasion.
The clause was then agreed to, as were clauses 66 The clause was then withdrawn, by, consent.
and 67.
Mr. R. YORKE moved the insertion of the following
,
Sir J. GRAHAM then brought up the following t,
Schedules A and B were also agreed to.
clause:—" That the Commissioners be not empowered
i enforce indiscriminate separation between man and
clause to inserted instead of chaise 14 : wife, and that in no instance shall they sanction or allow
" And be it enacted, that no owner of property shall separation when the application for relief shall be sub-
be entitled to vote as such, under the provisions of the stantiated as arising from positive inability to obtain
said recited Act. either in person or proxy, 'during the work, or from physical infirmity, and not from idleness,
year following the 25th day of March in any year, un- vice. or crime." Surely persons in a free and civi-
less before the Ist day of February next preceding such lised country should not be treated worse than
25th day of March he had given to the overseers the the slave, in a country where liberty was not so
statement required by the said Act, signed by him, nor
unles4 such statements contain a description of the nature jealously guarded, and yet it appeared from the regula-
tions regarding slaves (which the Hon. Member alluded
of the interest or estate he may have in such 'property, to at some length), that slaves were allowed to live with
and a statement of the amount of all rent-service (if any) their wives, and even with their concubines.—(A laugh.)
which he may receive or pay in respect thereof, and of In a country which so much professed to observe the
the persons for whom he may receive or to whom lie tendency or the Bible, it was altogether anomalous that
may pay such rent-service ; and no person shall be
the husband and wife should be separated by the law
entitled to vote as proxy until fourteen days after he have under any circumstances.
made his claim so to vote in the manner required by the ' Sir J. GRAHAM observed, in a jocose manner, upon
said Act; and no person shall be entitled to vote as the phraseology of the clause. lie did not understand
proxy for more than four owners of property in any one
parish (except he be a steward, bailiff, or land agent, or the meaning of the words "indiscriminate separation."
The Hon. Member should be aware that at present the
collector of rents for the natters of property for whom
he may be appointed to vote); and no appointment of board of guardians had a discretion to permit man and
wife to sleep in the same apartment. He would not ad-
proxy shall remain in force for a longer period than vacate the transfer of this power from the local boards of
two years from the making thereof, excepting only in guardians to Somerset-house, for the Poor-law Com •
the case in which an owner appoints his bailiff, steward, missioners could know nothing about the particular facts
land agent or collector of rents to be his proxy; in of each case, by which alone a just decision could be which case such appointment shall remain in- force so arrived at. lie did not think the Hon. Member was cor-
long as the proxy may con.inue to ,be such bailiff, rect in making either the Commissioners or the boards
steward, land agent, or collector, and while such ap- of guardians) edges of the vice or virtue of paupers. He
pointment remains unrevoked."—Agreed to. must oppose the clause.
Clause to follow clause 14 : Mr. R. YORKE said he would give up the phraseo-
" And the overseers of every parish containing a logy of the clause to the Right Hon. Gentleman, if he
population exceeding two thousand persons, according to conceded to him the principle for which he contended.
the last enumeration of the population published by the Mr. A. DARBY opposed the clause.
authority of Parliament, shell, on or before the sth day Mr. S. WOR VLEY would also oppose it, though he
of the month of February in every year, enter in the was certainly adverse to any restriction being imposed
hook to be from time to time provided for the purpose
upon man and wife in the workhouse.
the names and addresses of all persons who, before the Dr. BOWRING thought the clause would produce
Ist day of the said month of February, have given such
statement or made such claims as owners or proxies as greater evils than it was intended to remedy.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
aforesaid ; and such overseers shall allow any person to For the clause
peruse such book, without payment of any. fee,_ at all Against it
reasonable hours, between the said sth day and the 10th Majority against the clause —9o
day of February ; and any person who has given
such statement or made such claim, or any ratepayer of Mr. BURROUGHS moved that the following clause
be added to the Bill, by way of rider :—" That, in the
such parish, may, on or before the 15th day of the said
month of February, object to any other person as not case of any person being a widow, who shall have a legi-
timate child or children dependent upon her for support,
being entitled to vote as such owner, by delivering to the
and no illegitimate child born after the commencement
clerk of the board of guardians or the said parish, or of
the union in which it may be comprise:
in and ef her widowhood, it shall be lawful for the guardians of
Vwriting of at the ad-
.. . , , the union or parish to which such widow or widows may
dress of the person objected to, noticethe
grounds of such objection ;and, on or before the 20th have become chargeable, to grant relief, if they shall see
fit, to such widow or widows, although not residing with*
day of such month of February, such clerk shall send to in the union or parish in which she or they may have a
the overseers of such parish, notice of some day, between legal settlement."
the 24th of the said month and the Ist of March then -
next, on which he will hear evidence in relation to such
Sir J. GRAHAM gave great credit to the Hon
objections, and of the place within the parish or union at
Gentleman for the good
which he will attend to hear such evidence ; and such
Position, and assured him that were he himself to b©
feeling which dictated his pre-;
overseers shall forthwith 'cause a copy of such notice to governed by his own wishes he should not for one tno-
be fixed on or near the doors of all churches or chapels ment oppose it. But a good principle of the law was
within such parish and at all the usual places of aat stake and his sense of duty compelled him to maintain
ffixing
notices of parochial business ; and such clerk shall at that principle. Relief of this sort to non-residents was
tend on the day and at the place so appointed, and shall, a wholly new principle--one never heretofore recognised
—and which the House should pause about before con-
in the presence of all persons who may think fit
to be present, hear any matter adduced in sup-
seating to engraft it on the present Bill. In some cases
port of such grounds of objection, or in oppo-
relief to non-residents was allowed, asin the first slit
sition thereto, but none gibers i and the overseers of months of widowhood. A departure from the principle
would. entail boundless expense on the rate-payers.
the said parish shall then and 'tie re attend and produce
to such clerk the rate-books of the parish for the whole Mr. SPOONER regretted that the Right Han,
year preceding, and shall answer all su Baronet would not consent to the amendment, as the law
ilh questions, as
such clerk may put to them, or any of them, touching at present inflicted in many cases very grievous hard-
the matter of any such objection ; and such clerk shall ship. The expense to the parishes was very much in-
retain in the said book the name of all persons to whom creased by it.
no objection has been duly made, and of ail persons ob- Mr. HAWES said the la* at present gave sufficient
jetted to, unless the party objecting have appeared in latitude to meet such cases.
support of his objection ; and when the name of any After a few words from Mr. BROCKLEHURST, IPLAND ClRCUlT.—Northquipten, July 17.
person has been duly objected to, such clerk shall re- Mr. T. EGERTON said that these cases werts found (Befori Lord DENMAN.)
quire proof of the right of such person to vote, as owner; principally in the manufacturing districts, and it fre. i areerseetrairree BY A FATHER-IN-LAw.—John Marriott
objand in case any matter be adduced in support of the quently happened that a small allowance from the agri- was charged upon the Coroner's inquisition, with killing and
ection, and the right of the person objected cultural union would enable the widow and children to slaying James Plowright.
to be not proved to the satisfaction of such clerk, he support themselves.
r.
Mr. Miller conducted the case on the part of the prose-
shall expunge the name of such person from Sir J. GRAHAM said that this was neither more nor
Plowright deposed that she is the widow of the such book ; and such clerk shall have power to adjourn, less than applying this small amount in aid of wages in
de-
from time to time, and administer an oath to the over- the manufacturing districts. ceased, James Plewnght, and daughter of the prisoner. She
seers of any parish, and to all persons attending before Mr. had been married not quite five months. Her husband, who
him, T. EGERTON explained that the children were
was twenty-one years of age, had a fit about a fortnight be-
him. claiming a right to vote as owners, or objecting to enabled to support themselves ; the widow gigue ties fore his death. They lived. in the same house with the pri•
such right, and to all witnesses who be tendered or ex- quired the assistance.
soner. Three SiStOri and a brother slept in the same room
ambled on either side ; and such clerk shall write his Sir J. GRAHAM :still thought it amounted to the ' with the prisoner. The eldest is fourteen, the youngest is
initials against every name struck out, and sign his name same thing,
ai4, On the 25th of June last her husband returned from
.Her sister. Ann ran In
to every page of the said book ; and the persons whose Mr. I3ANKES thought the recommendation might be his work about seven o'clock, and. they went to bed about
names as owners are retained by such clerk in such book adopted without danger. nine. Heard her kiwi, and mother talking. Heard her
shall be deemed to be the persons entitled to vote in Colonel ROLLESTON supported the clause. He was father say te her mother, "If you don't speak I'll throttle
such parish, as owners of property, for the year follow- of opinion that a discretionary power should exist.
Are -ou listening to mean He was not answered
ing the 25th of march next snsuing, and no other person Mr. BROTHERTON thought the guardians teight Heard her 3 fall an
reia,"r
eirlemtobt;nercafallledono,utteat the deess "Is your party in
shall be deemed to be so entitled : provided always, that have a discretionary power of giving relief to the widows. ;and called to witneee's husband. Witness ran to first to her
the said commissioners may, if they see fit, by order After a short conversation, the Committee divided, father, plumber, and her husband followed, but fell down
8
as a paid officer, to hear and
under their hands and seal, direct the guardians of such when there appeared—
• stain as he went. On going into. the room, saw the bed-
parish or union to appoint some person other than the For the clause •
49 clothes on the floor. Her father. had hold of her Mother.-
Against it
clerk to such guardians,
decide the matter of such objections as aforesaid,"— Majority against Government —1 his arms. Deceased told her father to sit down, and
The announcement of the numbers was received with he meant to
Agreed to.
HI liaid, " I have
Second clause to follow clause 14:--
loud cheers. told you, and I meando ta.,.Bight." He then
went up to the deceased, and tots him by the feet,
and threw
" And whereas, by the said first-recited Act it is pro- The clause was then brought up, and ordered to be dTh lath fell,
e. Qh mother, mother, help doae air
him backwar s. ey , the father uppermost. De-
vided that no person shall be deemed ayatepayer, or be made part of the Bill. ceased scratcned his father's face, while wit her mother,
entitled to vote, or do any other act, matter or, thing as Mr. HAWES moved the following clause :—" And be and slaw) endeavoured to draw him off butness'
such, under the provisions of that Act, unless he shall it enacted, that in every case in which a parish 'conteins aim. In two or three minutes he got up
and cet 1
went
t moo,
e
have been rated to the relief of the poor for the whole ' more than twenty thousand persons, aceording to the stairs, and deceased got u
, P. Re threw lis arms round his
Oil her civil what
to
it do.
bit so voting or otherwise enumeration of the population thin last published by mother's neck, and Say.l,
acting as such ratepayer, and shall have paid the ' authority of Parliament, the (Kist, charges, and expenses
year immediately preceding
me." He tIICII to Ck witness round the waist, and said, "Oh
parochial rates and assessments wade and assessed upon properly incurred by the officers of such pads% ie d
_efir,bLeaal see you; I can't hear yoit," and fell down in-
him for the period of one whole year, as well as , making out, preparing, printing, and collecting the Ike '
rantshe ajaend
beforerer spoke afterw
grd,s„ 'A, surgeon was fetched,
the s
those due from him at the thue of so voting or acting, of persons qualified to serve on juries, wording to theuffs'eolt arrived. There was no cause
of uarrel betw
except such as shall have been made or become duo provisions of the Am 6 Geo. 4, st. 50, and relating attem to ea deq Ilitti.ana her father, who had several times
P..,. estroy himself. In the month of May he had
within six months immediately preceding such voting or thereto, shall be paid and allowed to them out of the
, etteMPted to cut his throat, but wee prevented by the de-
eming ;_ be it enacted, that such parochial rates and as- poor-rates of the said parish, together also with all ceased. sessments shall be deemed to extend only to rates made expenses properly incurred by the settle offmes, on the i Ann Marriott, a elder of the last witness, corroborated her
for the relief of the poor."—Agreed to. perambulation of such p.a.o§ll, 41.14 in setting up and 1 testimom
Sir JAMES GRAHAM then ?roposed, that after keefini in nes, repair the boundary stones of the I itikry 'Coln •
. ns, a neighbour, Fond her being sent for on
. „,,,, ........t.. • . , , .
. -

said parish, provided that such perambulations do Slot
arise more than once in every three years."—Agreed .to.
Mr. BROCKLEHURST moved the insertion or A
clause to the effect that persons of good character,
above sixty years of age, applying for relief, should-not
be compelled to go into the workhouse, but should have
ota-door relief granted to them.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM opposed the clause as un-
necessary. By the law, as it stood' at present, tha
guardians had full discretionary power to grant relief
in such cases.
Mr. TATTEN EGERT.ON hoped.that henceforth it
would be clearly understood, that guardians had dis-
cretionary power in such cases to grant out-door relief.
In the North of England the general opinion among
the guardians was that they had no such p-ower.
Colonel ROLLESTON recommended the Hon. Member
to withdraw the clause, as it imposed greater restric-
tions on the boards of guardians than they were under
at present.
Colonel WOOD assured the Hon. Member, that in
the South of Engtand, the guardians generally exercised
that discretionary power. Every magistrate in that
part of the country was aware that he could make an
order for out-door relief tor-persons above sixty years
of age.
Mr. BROCKLEHURST, on the distinct understand-
ing that the same system should be pursued in the
North of England, would withdraw the clause.
The clause was accordingly withdrawn.
Mr. DARBY, in the absence of Mr. Alderman
Thompson, proposed the clause of which that Hon.
Gentleman had,given notice, empowering the Poor-law
Commissioner=, or the Secretary of State for the Home
Department, to detach parishes from one union, and
annex them to another.

Sir J. GRAHAM said he disclaimed, as Secretary of
State, all discretionary power, and preferred its being
vested in the Poor-law Commissioners, who were the
best judges, and who would be held responsible for their
acts. He would put a clause into the hands of the
Chairman—an amended clause—conveying the purport
of that proposed. The Right Hon. Gentleman then
proposed the amended clause.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER opposed the clause.
-

Mr. S. WORTLEY suip.orted it.
Sir J. GRAHAM explained the effect of the clause,
which, he said, would remove the restraints from the
diseretibn of the Commissioners with respect to the dis-
solution of unions, which at present required the assent
of two-thirds of the guardians. The relative rights of
parishes would remain the same as under the exist-
ing law.
Mr. BANKES opposed the clause, and urged the im-
propriety of discussing such important provisions at so
late an hour of the night. In his opinion, the clause did
not go far enough.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he could assure the House he
had not brought up the clause until after the most
mature and anxious consideration of the evil it was in-
tended to remedy. There certainly had been an original
imperfection in the working of the Bill, arising from in-
experience, and this was the cause of the too large
extent of some of the unions. The remedy, however,
must be applied with discretion and care, and he hoped
the present clause would prove a gradual, but adequate
remedy for the evil complained of.--The clause was then
agreed to. _

—The preamble of the Bill was then agreed to amidst
loud cheers, several Hon. Members congratulating Sir
James Graham on the excellent temper and considerate
feeling he had shown throughout the whoie proceedings
in Committee.
DUCHY OF CORNWALL BILL.
This Bill was considered in Committee, and the report
was ordered to be brought up on Monday next.
The Canal Companies Bill was withdrawn by Mr.
GLADSTONE, who announced his- intention of bring-
ing in another Bill upon the subject in the early part of
next session.

The report of the Joint-Stock Companies at Law
and in Equity Bill was brought up and agreed to.
RAILWAY BILL.
Mr. GLADSTONE postponed the Committee on this
Bill till Monday next, at one o'clock.

CUSTOMS ACTS BILL.
On the motion that the House resolve itself into a
Committee on the Customs Acts Bill,
Mr. GLADSTONE moved the following resolution:
—" That it is expedient to reduce, under certain circum-
stances, the duties payable on books and engravings."
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to knoo from the Right
Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whe-
ther there was any objection to the printing of the evi:
dance taken before the Customs Frauds Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
only objection was, that the evidence cast certain impu-
tations on particular individuals.

Mr. DURCOMBE said there, were some persons who
did not object to having their names published.
The Bill then passed through Committee.
The District Courts and Prisons Bill was read a third
time, and passed.
The Lecturers and Parish Clerks' Bill passed through
Committee, and the report was received.
The Western Australia Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The Farm Buildings Bill was read a third time, and
passed.
The Party Processions (Ireland) Bill was read a third
time, and passed.
The Loan Societies Bill was read a third time, and
passed.

The 'other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a Quarter before Two.

SUMMER ASSIZES.
HOME ClRCUlT—Chelmsford, July 18.
CROWN SlDE.—(Before Mr. Baron PARKE.)
Elizabeth Belcham, 22, a good-looking young woman,
was indicted for the wilful murder of her male illegiti-
mate child, by casting it into the waters of the Chelmer
river, and thereby suffocating it.
Mr. Clarkson, with Mr. Espinasse, conducted the pro-
secution. Mr. Ryland appeared for the prisoner.
Mr. CLARKSON addressed the jury, and from his state-
ment and the evidence adduced, it appeared that the pri-
soner had resided with her mother at Soutbminster, in
this county, but about twelve months ago she became
acquainted with a man named Dean. a carrier at Chelms-
ford, and eventually went to live with him, her friends
being induced to believe that they were married,
They continued to cohabit together fbi' several
months, when the prisoner proved in the family-
way, and it appeared that when this" became apparent
Dean behaved very unkindly to her, and at length
turned her out of doors. The prisoner returned to her
mother's house, where she was delivered of a child, the
unfortunate infant in question, about five weeks ago;
and it appeared that she had several times applied to the
father of the child for assistance, but could not obtain
any from him. Oa the morning of the sth of July the
prisoner left her mother's house, taking the infant with
her, and, just as she was about to depart, she told the
nurse to kiss the baby, for perhaps it might be the last
time she would see it. The prisoner represented that
she was going to take the child to Cheinisfl,rd, to place
it with a wet-nurse. She was traced along the road,
and at a beer-shop in the evening, at a short distanee
from Chelmsford, she had some beer and a biwitit, and
she was seen to chew a portion of the Ntter and give
it to the baby. The last time she Was seen
with the infant alone was about ten o'clock
the ' same night, at which time she was going
towards the river, and at eleven she went into a
public-house, where it was observed her clothes were
very wet, and her boots were also wet and covered'
with gravel of a similar description to some that had
been placed on the banks of the river. The next morn-
ing a labouring man, who went to the river to water his
master's horses, found the dead body of en inthnt in the
water. There were no marks of violence upon it, and it
had evidently died of snffocation. To prove the identity
of the deceased it was found necessary to call the mother
of the prisoner as a witness for the Crown, and she was
obliged to admit that the deceased was the offspring of
her unhappy daughter. The man was also examined, In
order to prove that the day before the dead body was
discovered- in the river the prisoner wrote a letter to
him, to the effect that the child was no more, and that
it had died on the previous night. An additional fact,
tending to show the identity of the deceased, was also
proved by the medical man, who said' that upon opening
the stomach of the deceased he found in it a portion of
masticated biscuit. Other ill'ets were also disclosed,
which made ont a very strong case of suspicion against
the prisoner,
AIr..RILAND made a very forcible appeal to the feel-
ings of the jury on behalf of the prisoner, and commented
in severe and appropriate 'terms upon the conduct of the
man Peens, who, he said, had first ruined and then de-
serted his unfortunate victim., lie admitted that a ease
of suspicion had been made out, but contended that the
evidence was tat conclusive of the prisoner's guilt, and
that under the circumstances, they ought to give her
thebenefit of any doubt that appeared in the case.
Mr. Baron PAnitg baying summed up, the jury, after
a short deliberation, returned a verdict of Not Guilty.

the night in question. Found deceased on the floor" Rich
head in his wife's lap. Applied various remedli in effe 11,1,e
of restoring hhn, but without effect. lie Jive
hour.. Saw the prisoner that night; his face ,:uver,Al
with blood. • ..

11-1-rs.7ProWright, on being recalled, said while her hdsl,and
v-as on the floor her father said, "Get out of the way and
let me kick his brains out."

Mr. Simpson, a surgeon, of Stamford, attended tl a de-
ceased a fortnight before his death, when he was said to be
in a. fit. Witness considered it arose from drinking. He was
kickiag and biting. Witness slapped him- shady* in the
face, god be soon recotered. On the night of the 2ith he
was called in, when he found Plowright dead. Made a post
mortem examination. Considered his death arose from a it." p-
ture of the h'ngs.
_ _ .•

Several persons, members of the county police and other-
wise, gave the prisoner a good character for being an honest,
sober, and indastrions mane
He was found Guilty, and Sentenced to twelve moat::: ii Jt
prisonment.

NORTHERN CIRCUIT.—York, July 17.
CROWN SlDE.=pefore Mr. Justice CRESSIV.ELL.)

Young Ward was Piit to the bar, to take his trial ilpon an
indictment found at the summer assizes for 1843 against
him, a woman named Greenough, and three other men, for a
burglary in the house of one John Atkinson, at Hutislett, in,
the parish of Hunslett, on the night of the 11th of April,
1843, and stealing therein sundry articles of apparel, two
silver table-spoons, six silver tea-spoon', one silver caddy-
spoon, a pair of silver sugar-tongs, and other articles, the pro-
perty of the prosecutor.
Mr. Hall, Mr. J. H. Hill, and Mr. Monteith, conducted the
prosecution. The prisoner was not defended by counsel.
It appeared from the evidence of the prosecutor and his
wife, that on the evening of the 1 lth of April they made up
the house quite safe, and retired to rest abnut ten o'clock.'
About midnight they were awoke by some noise, and on.
rising to discover the cause, they found that the house had
been entered, and the articles named in the indictment,
stolen. Butterfield, Lindley, and the woma4n Greenough,
were shortly after taken. The two former were tried and
convicted at the summer assizes for 1843, Greenough being
admitted to give testimony against them. The present pri-
soner escaped for the time. The woman Greenough was not
new forthcoming, and some difficulty was experienced on.
the part of the prosecution in connecting the prisoner with
the other three. It was proved, however, that the prisoner
was with Greenough and the other men, at Wakefield, on the
12th of April, the day after the burglary—that the woman
stated i.r2 his presence that he was her second husband,
and that - they passed the night together as man
and wife. 'The witnesses. did not know her person-
ally, but having been at the trial of the other
men at York last &In:timer, they swore that the woman who
then gave testimony coder the name of Greenotigh was the
same woman, and that the prisoner was the same man. It
was further shown that on the 18th of April, only six days.
after the burglary, the prisoner sold thesis tea-spoons and tile
caddy-spoon to a working man for 15s. The man borrowed
of him (witness) half-a-crown, which he paid down, and be
was to come for the remaining 12s. 6d. the next week. lii
the meantime they were challenged.
The prisoner, in his defence, said that be could cull his
mother and sister to show that he was at home at ten o'clock
on the night of the robbery. At his desire she was put into
the witness-box, but said-she knew nothing about it, and
'could not tell when he came home. The sister was not eaNed.
The'prosecntor, it appeared, was his uncle.
The Learned JUDGE summed up the case, and the jorv,
after a short consultation, returned a verdict of Guilty.
A previous conviction for felony was then proved against.
him.—Sentence deferred.

NORFOLK ClRCUlT.—lfuntingdun, July 17.
The business of this county began to-day at one wel..a,
being two causes in the Nisi Prins Court, and live prisum.r.
in the Crown Court.

CIVIL SlDE.—(Before Mr. Justice WILLIAMS.)
GOODLEY V. JACKSON.
_

Mr. Prendergast and Mr. O'Malley were comel for the
plaintiff; Mr." Sergeant Byles and Mr. Gunning appeared fur
the defendant.

This was an action in which the plaintiff, who is a poor
labouring man, living in Ramsey Fen, sought to recover
damages from the defendant, a large farmer, residing in
Middlemore Fen, in the same parish, such sum as the jury
might think he was entitled to for .his conduct towards the
plaintiff's-daughter, per quod servitium accusit.
As might be expected, the details of this case were not of a
character to be made public. It may suffice, therefore, to say,
that the chief witness for the plaintiff gave a plain and
straightforward account of herself, her conduct, and her ac-
quaintance with the defendant, and entirely denied all othet
imputations on her character, which was assailed in various
quarters.

On the part of the defendant, it was contended that she
was not to be believed on her oath, and several men, both
married and unmarried, were put into the box to swear to
their own disgrace and that of the plaintiff's daughter.
Mr. PRENDERGAST having replied with great force on this
evidence, which he characterised as base and unmanly,
The jury, after a quarter of an hour's deliberation, returned
a verdict for the plaintiff with 201. damages.
The other cause was referred.
CROWN COURT.—(Before Mr. Baron ALDERSON.)
ARSON.—Samuel Baxter, a respectable 'little boy, aged ton
years, and not unlike the celebrated General Tom Thumb,,
having pleaded guilty to a charge of firing /bur straw-
stacks, the property of Robert Daintree, of Hemingford Ab-
bots, on the Ilth of May,
Mr. WELts, on the part of the prosecutor, begged to rs,
commend the youthful incendiary to mercy. Hisfather
his farming bailiff; and had filled that position for eight
years with the greatest credit. The prisoner, himselfwas
always considered a very deserving boy, and every one was
surprised at his having confessed to the perpetration of this
'crime.
His LonDsmr then called before him the prosecutor and
the father of the prisoner, neither of wilora could in any way
account for the transaction.
The boy himself when asked to ass4s'n any reason thr has
R Rio so, denying that be bad
conduct., professed his Inability t
ever been incited to the deed by any (me, or that he had anv.
motive. The prosecutor, however, said that he. had told him
that his reason for doing so was a wish to live in the village,
and that he thought the house would be burned as well as
the stacks, in which case he and his family must all have
gone into the village. To accomplish this wish it would
appear that he had thrust a lighted stick into one of thq.
stacks,
Mr. Daintree earnestly begged for mercy on the boy, r.ehont
he said he had known from his extreme youth as We' as his
father. -
Mr. Baron AtnnnsoN—Well, I do not know What to de
with him, but I shall not pass sentence on hint Just now.
The boy was then removed, crying bitterly, as well as Vis
poor father, but having been shortly replaced on a chair in
the dock,
His LORDSHIP thus addressed him—Samuel Baxter, your
case has given me great pain and difficulty indeed, but I
cannot exercise any discretion as ajudge. It is for the Crown
to do that, We must make the same example for boys as
we would for men who commit such an offence as that to
which you have pleaded guilty. What cireumstances there
may be in your favour which her most gracious Majesty the
Queen may toe, I know not, but her advisers may see some
such whic may induce them to recommend the display or
mercy towards:you. I can only say that you shall have Qin benefit of my most favourable recommendation to mercy. At
present I can exercise none, but must pronounce the sentence
of the law, which is, that you be transported for fifteen years,
and I huge that other boys will take notice of it.