The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF LORDS, June 6.
FEES (COURT OF COMMON PLEAS) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
SUNDAY FAIRS PREVENTION BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
EXCHEQUER-BILLS BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
PETITIONS.
The Earl of RODEN presented several petitions
against Post•of&ce labour on Sundays.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions
complaining of agricultural distress.
PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to move the
second reading of the Parliamentary Voters (Ireland)
Bill, and he did not anticipate any opposition to the mo-
tion, because it was admitted on all hands, and by men
of all parties, that the present state of the Parliamentary
franchise in Ireland was a mere mockery of the principle
of representation.—(The Noble Marquis's voice was here
completely drowned by the noisy conversation of certain
persons at the foot of the throne, the Noble Marquis
turned towards them, and reminded them that a debate
was going on. This remonstrance was received with
loud cheers from all parts of the House.) Silence having
been restored, the Noble Marquis proceeded to detail
the provisions of the Bill. He said the House was well
aware that the Irish franchise had always been con-
nected with the principle of property, it having been ori-
ginally enacted by Act of Parliament to belong to free.
holders possessed of 40'., and in 1792 or 1793 it was
further limited by the Irish Parliament, which declared
that the right to vote should only be given to those
freeholders who claimed and registered their right. He
had always lamented—looking at the period when that
alteration was made, it being the time when the privi-
lege of voting for Members of Parliament was extended
to the Roman Catholics, thereby creating at once an
enormous addition to the constituency—that the oppor-
tunity was not then tttli4n, while increasing the amount
of the constitu, ncy, on the one hand, of limiting the EX.
tent of the franchise on the other. He considered many
of the evils which had since afflicted Ireland were attri-
butable to the retention of the 403. freeholders. It
was the possession of the right of making freeholders,
the temptation to make there, the enormous increase in
their number cons( quent on tho admission of the
Roman Catholic voters, and the amount of perjury,
bribery, and contrivance entailed by these means on the
country, by the desire to make what a as called a strong
and commanding Parliameroaty influence, which led to
those evils. When the English Reform Bill was passed
it was thought that the right of franchise in Ireland
ought be considerably raised. Whether the precise
amount that was right Was then selected, was not a .

, question now to be considered, as the amount of the
cee,stituency had since been moterielly diminished by
subsequent changes. The Irish Re form Bill created a
new class of voters, the 101. leaseholders, but even with
that audition the number of voters in Ireland had fasten
away to an amount which did not fairly rep:, sent the
general population, especially as regardsd the county
I constituency, which was how inferior to the boroogn
constituency. The present et unty constituency of Ire-
land was less than 30,000, or scarcely two per cent. on
the whole population. Indeed, at the last general eh c-
tion theta were more voters in one or two counties of
England than in the whole constituency of all Ireland.
During the last two years, also, that number had teen
further greatly diminished in consequence of the suffer-
ings of the country. It must then be apparent that it was
absolutely necessary to apply some remedy to this evil.
He would now stare, as shortly as he could, the mede
in which it was proposed to apply a remedy by this
13il1. It proposed in the first place—and he considered
this one of the principal and main recommendations of
this Bill, to get rid of the system of registration, the
most fertile source of uncertainty, corruption, and e-
utility, and of trick and intrigue on the part of every in-
dividual, to obtain that which was worth something to
him for the worst of purposes. That alone he considered
a sufficient justification for the Bill. There was, how-
ever, a substitution, which was the rating to the poor.
All persons would have votes who were rated to the poor
at 8/. a year, the registry be made by the clerk of the
peace, from the books, without the voter having any-
thiog to do with it. Persons would not be entitled to
vote unless they had paid up their rates. That was the
main principle c.f the Bill, which referred almost solely,
however, to the county constituencies, no alteration
being made with regard to the boroughs, with the ex-
ception that voters would be subject to the same test of
rating as the county voters, and therefore giving them
the snore facility of acquiring a vote without the neces-
sity of registration. All the other clauses were merely
for the purpose of carrying out those provisions, and,
therefore, he did not think it necessary to give any ex-
planation of them. He ought, however, to state, with
regard to the second clause, that it any objections were
made to it, he should not defend it, as he thought they
ought rather to discourage than encouragejoint tenancy.
He then moved that the Bill be read a second time.
Lord STANLEY thought some portions of the Bill
deserving of the support of the House, especially as it
tended to assimilate the law in Ireland to that now ex-
isting in England. At the same time there were other
portions so dangerous in principle, and calculated to
work so injuriously not only in their immediate effect on
the constituency of Ireland, but in their possible effect
on the constituency of the country at large, he meant as
regarded the principle and extent of the proposed fran-
chisee that unless considerable alterations were made in
the Bill in Committee, be should feel it his duty to do
all in his power to induce their Lordships to reject it on
the [third reading. He contended that the system of
registration carried on in Ireland was quite different
from that in England and Scotland, and that bad as it
was heretofore, it would be rendered much more dele-
terious by the proposed measure; and would prove this
assertion by showing that, instead of an annual regis-
tration. as in England, the system in Ireland is octennial.
The Noble Lord then contrasted the number of electors
that existed in Ireland in the years 1832, 1840, and 1848,
and argued that the number of county constituents in
1832 was only 59,000, whereas, in 1847, there was an aug-
mentation of 2,000, making the number of county elec-
tors 61,000. But, at the same time he would re quest
of their Lordships to look to the astounding diminution
owing to the distress in that country, produced partly
by famine, and partly by free trade ; fir from 61,000
Irish constituents in 1847, Ireland, in the following
year, could not boast of more than 34,000, and in 1849
the number was again reduced to 27,000. He admitted
that this falling off was attributable, in a great mea-
sure, to the popular excitement created by the famine,
which deterred thousands from entering their names on
the registry list; and should add, that he had it on the
best authority, that in some counties of that ill-fated
country there were not more than 900 electors out of
5.000 inhabitants; and he expressed his delight that the
people of Ireland began to know that there were other
matters of more vital and important interest than agi-
tation. Ho would next refer to the boroughs, and was
prepared to show that though there was a diminution
in the constituencies of the counties, there was
a very great increase in the electors of the
boroughs, amounting to 2,000. He should also say
that he totally disagreed with the two propositions in-
volved in the Bill, and so strongly alluded to by the
Noble Marquis (Marquis of Lansdowue), and hoped that
such principles would not be pressed, as they must ine-
vitably result in a serious injury to Ireland, and be come
a precedent for many of the Chartists and others in
England to demand a vote by ballot. Though he did
not mean to oppose the second reading of the Bill, yet
he should remonstrate with the Government, and hoped
that a measure fraught with so much danger to the
framework of society in Ireland, would be reconsidered
and withdrawn. When the Noble Marquis expressed
his regret that the forty-shilling freeholders had not been
abolished at an earlier period, he (Lord Stanley) thould
say that he fully coincided with him; and he was there-
fore more astonished that the Government should now in-
troduce a measure which would be far worse to Ireland
than the law which created forty-shilling freeholders.
When the Noble Marquis said that he wished that an in-
terest of 5/. per annum was to constitute the grounds of
the franchise, did he not reflect that such a system would
be far more perniciou3 than the 40s. freehold system ?
, He did not consider it right that one-sixth of the electors
' of the entire kingdom should be established by this Bill,
particularly as such a line of proceeding would negative
the influence of the respectable class of society, and
would also introduce into the House of Commons a set of
men that would be likely to mar the best objects of any
Government. He feared that Government, in their ad-
vocacy of this Bill, were putting the poisoned chalice to
their own lips, and that ere long they would heartily
regret their present ambition; for he would ask their
Lordships to look to the county of Mayo, where 1.000
paupers, at a rating of 81. would swamp the respectable
portion of the community in that county. The Noble
Lord then contrasted the constituency of Scotland with
what this measure was likely to provide for Ireland, and
said that nothing could be more unfair or unjust than
that, Ile also argued that it would be the means f
creating division and altercation between the tenant and
the landlord on the one hand, and between the priest
and the landlord on the other. Ile then alluded to Mr.
Griffiths' valuation, and said that at the time that that
valuation was made that the price of corn was up to 50s.
per quarter, whereas at present it is not more than 30s.
He would not oppose the second reading, but should
contest every clause in Committee.
Earl-GREY considered there was a political necessity
for increasing the elective franchise in Ireland, which
was now, by a variety of circumstances, dwindled down
to a lamentable amount. The Noble Earl then entered
into a consideration of the circumstances which operated
to reduce the constituency of Ireland, and proceeded to
say that the nature of the property in that country was
such, that unless they came to the resolution of increas-
ing the franchise, the consequences would be prejudicial
to the best interests of the people. He thought that
there was an absolute necessity for making occupation
the test; and on the other hand by taking rating in con-
nexion with that test, he thought they could not have a
better security for the increase and proper exercise of
the elective franchise. He considered also, that an 81.
rating was not too low, and that the best principle which
their Lordships could act upon for the right ex, ension of
the franchise, would be not merely the principle of making
the rating of individuals a necessary qualification for she
right to vote, but also that principle which subjected them
to be rated for the relief of others. There was one part
of the system under the English Reform Bill which he
considered of the utmost value in the consideration of
this question, that of annual registration, which he
trusted their Lordships would not lose sight of in the
consideration of this Bill. The principle on which that
system worked was of the greatest value, acting as it
did, annually, to cause the rate-payer to renes' his in-
terest in his right to vote; and whether the qualification
was to be fixed as low as 8/. or not, he hoped their Lord-
ships would give their assent to the second reading of the
Bill now before the House.—(Hear.)
Lord DESART could not refrain from expressing his
protest against this Bill, believing, as he did, that no cir-
cumstance could tend more to defeat improvement in
Ireland than the adoption of the Bill now before their
Lordship? House. The Noble Lord then went into de-
tails of those circumstances and relations which exist
between landlord and tenant in Ireland, and expressed
his opinion that the adoption of the Bill would sever
those relations, setting the tenant ,against his landlord,
and forming a cause which would lead to, his making war
upon him. He bore testimony to the great assistance
which he had received from the Roman Catholic clergy-
men in his part of Ireland, in maintaining order; but
their exertions were, he said, defeated by those illegal
societies which were combined for the purpose of over-
throwing all landlord interest in Ireland, and should this
Bill be passed by their Lordships, it would be a weapon
placed in the hands of those most mischievous classes,
which would enable them to accomplish that object. He
therefore trusted that their Lordships would not give
their assent to the second reading of this Bill.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS considered that the
opponents of the Bill, while they stated their objections
to the measure, had altogether failed to advert to the
evils which it was intended to remedy; while on the
other hand, the supporters of the Bill evaded allusion to
the objectionable clauses. Since the year 1835 there
had been an annual diminution in the number of elec.-

tors, and it was become necessary that it should be eil-
- but be admitted, to such an extent that the
constituency should bear proportion to the population.
What was wanted in Ireland was a real and bona fide
constituency, and he did not believe that the granting of
the franchise to the Irish people on a low qualification
would induce the English people to claim a similar
franchise. He objected, however, to the 8/. qua-
lification, and thought that the class of men
whom it would constitute as electors were not
those, either from their position or intellect, who should
be armed with the franchise. The qualification was
too low, and it would be much better if it were made to
depend on houses of a certain amount of value. He
thought a 12/. qualification should be adopted,
if they took house and land as the test of value. The
Noble Marquis had thrown overboard the joint occupy-
ing clause, and he need hardly say that this determina-
tion on the part tf the Government gave him great sa-
tilfaetion. He objected to the clause which gave a 5/.
tenant for life a vote, and he should oppose it in Com-
mittee, believing that if it were permitted to remain in
the Bill it would have the eff,ct of creating fictitious
voters. In conclusion, the Noble Lord suggested that
as the present time was most ruitablo for the enactment
of a ri gistration Bill, there should be a compromise on
the part of the Commons as regarded the qualific tion
clauses, and in that event they might reasonably hope to
have a good Bill.
The Earl Of WICKLOW rejoiced at the eba
notn:
nt of tho joint ti nsntcy clause, and pledgedhimself
give all the amendments intended to be proposed, the
Most serious consideration in Committee. In the prin.