The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-04 00:00:00

JUNE

the eacred deposit of his doctrine, would guide and
govern their decision.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he thought
it but fitting that he should take the earliest opportunity
of explaining. the views he entertained, in common with
her Majesty's Government, with respect to this most im-
portant, he might almost say perilous, Bill. In making
the statement of his views on the subject he was con-
scious not only of the disadvantage under which ho la-
boured in attempting to follow the Right Rev. Prelate,
who spoke with authority on any subject, but more
especially upon that to which he had given so much con-
sideration, but also of the great disadvantage of being
compelled to do so in the absence of his Noble and
Learned Friend whom he might still call his esteemed and
revered colleague, who had for years sat upon the wool-
sack, and who, had he been there that day, would, with
his usual power and ability, have stated the objections
which he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) knew he enter-
tained to the fullest degree to the Bill which the Right
Rev. Prelate had laid upon the table. He was bound,
then, frankly, openly, and explicitly to state the alarm
which he felt at, and the objections he entertained to,
this measure, and in stating these grounds of alarm and
objection he trusted no expression of his might be taken
to convey an impression that he entertained the slightest
disrespect for that sacred and learned body whom
the Right Rev. Prelate proposed to constitute into a new
tribunal, and for whom, in their proper functions, he en-
tertained—collectively and individually—the most com-
plete and entire respect. However, he must say that his
.motive for troubling their Lordships thus early on the
question was that he objected at that moment to any le-
gislation at all upon the subject, and that he thought the
very circumstance of the inevitable misconstruction
which would be put upon any measure for altering that
tribunal which was the constitutional tribunal in this
country for the trial of those cases, and which has for
centuries exercised those functions, furnished of itself
decisive ground of objection to the measure. Nay, the
very haste to proceed with the Bill at the present mo-
ment—for he could not conceal from himself that the
anxiety to proceed with the Bill had arisen from the dis-
setisiaction which had been felt, if not expressed, at a
recent decision of that august tribunal which was invested
by the Crown, by the law, and by the Constitution, with
the administration of her Majesty's prerogative—he did
not say, indeed the Right• Rev. Prelate would admit that
interpretation of the origin of the Bill, but that he would
disclaim it in fact, whatever doubts he might have had
respecting that decision—but the very haste to proceed
with the Bill would pass the highest censure upon that
decision, which, after solemn consideration, had been
adopted by that body; for would not the public
be led to think that if such a sentence, and such a
verdict, had not been delivered by that tribunal, Parlia-
ment would never have been called upon to interpose for
the alteration of the constitution of the tribunal? For
himself, although, as President of the Council, he was ne-
cessarily a metsber, that was, had the right of entrance
to all those Committees of the Privy Council, yet upon
questions of a judicial nature he bad thought it to be his
duty never to take any part in their proceedings, and
the only advice which at the commencement of this par-
ticular proceeding he had thought it his duty to give
was that the Right Reverend Prelate the Archbishop of
York and the Bishops being Privy Councillors should be
specially invited to sit at the tribunal for the purpose of
assisting at its decision. Not speaking, then, as a mem-
ber of that tribunal, but in common with the-great body
of the community and a large portion of the clergy, he
considered the judgment given by that tribunal to be
perhaps only too eatistactory in the present unhappy—he
bad almost said distempered—state of men's minds on the
subject. It had certainty given as much satisfaction as
the nature. of the subject and of the difficulty permitted.
Ho had again, then, to ask their Lordships whether any
attempt at once, not merely to qualify, but to supersede
that tribunal, would not have the effect of stripping its
decision of all weight and dignity, to which none of their
Lordship who was not prepared to make a great change
in the constitution of the country was prepared to as-
sent? What would be the consequence, if, whenever
any important decision of a judicial tribunal were given,
it should be followed up by an attempt to alter its con-
stitution? L t them suppose, for instance, the case of
the Court of Queen's Beuch, when it was presided over
by Lord Mansfield, and when it gave a decision upon a
ceiebrated case of libel which then greatly agitated the
country; or the case of the Court of Common Pleas
when, under Lord Camden's presidency, it pronounced a
decision on the question of general warrants—what
would have been the case if, immediately after their de-
cision in those cases, the jurisdiction of the Queen's
Beech in cases of libel had been taken away, or the
jurisdiction of the Court of Common Pleas altered?
Would it not have been considered as a reflection upon
hose judgments? But though there was much dis-
satisfaction felt at those decisions, no such suggestion
bad been made. For those reasons, then, he was not
prepared to give his assent, on the part of the Go•
vernment, to proceeding further with this Bill. He
had, besides, the strongest objection to the measure,
es striking a blow at her Majesty's prerogative, in-
troducing as it were a tribunal which, in the lan-
guage of the Bill, was to be binding and conclu-
sive on her Majesty's Privy Council, and was to
deprive her Majesty of the power which the Sove-
reign had exercised, not merely from Protestant times—
from the time of the Ref Imation—but from the very
earliest period of the empire. The Right Rev. Prelate,
indeed, said he did not consider the exercise of that
power by the Crown to be an intolerable burden upon
the Church; but he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) would
go a step further, and say that it was essential to the
independence and safety of the Church, [nth of which
would be diminished by the Bill, inasmuch as the judg-
ment of her Majesty and her advisers would be shackled,
and because the decision under this Bill would be bind-
ing and conclusive, leaving her Majesty and her advisers
no option whatever. If the Privy Council were only to
be required to receive decisions without the power of
couching or altering them, their functions might just as
well be discharged by Mr. Greville, their clerk, without
setting the whole machinery of the Privy Council in
notion.—(Hear, hear.) It was important that their
Lordships should keep in view that the power of the
government of the Church was one which, at all times
oefore the Reformation, at the Reformation, and since
the Reformation, had formed one of the most essential
prerogatives of the Crown. From the Reformation
there followed a series of examples which established
this fact beyond a doubt—nut only that the Crown
had uniformly exercised the power of control-
ling the decisions in ecclesiastical affairs, of pro-
nouncing upon them through persons whom it had
thought fit to employ, but of choosing the most
proper persons, lay or ecclesiastical, to decide upon
those matters.—(hear, hear.) The Court of Delegates
was constituted not of ecclesiastics only, bat of ecclesias-
tics and civilians. Under that Court a commission was
issued, and he had been informed by ono of the most
eminent civilians of the country, that if there was a ques-
tion of fact and not of doctrine to be determined, a clause
was inserted in the commission requiring that no decree
should be pronounced without the assent and presence of
the head of the Church.—(Hear, hear.) The question
to be determined in this case was a question of tact and
of law, and not a question of what the law ought to be.
—( Hear, hear.) Now, if it, were a question of doctrine,
requiring peculiar habits of education and study, and at-
tention to theology, to determine whether a certain
•loctrine ought to be taught or not, he should be inclined
to agree with the Right Rev. Prelate that the tribunal in
inch case ought to consist of spiritual persons. But that
was not the case, fur they were now dealing with facts,
and not seeking to ascertain whether new doctrines were
to be decreed.—(Elear, hear.) He was no friend to the
revival of convocation. Ile agreed with the emphatic
words of one of the greatest statesmen of this country,
and ono most attached to ecclesiastical establish-
meets, Burke, who when stating that the convoca-
tion and its powers, though dormant, still ex-
isted in this country, and might be called forth
at any given moment, added, " They might be called
forth by those who having the Popish spirit could con-
jure up that spirit, but who would not dare to defy the
consequences which it would produce." If a convoca-
tion were brought together, he would not exclude from
it all those who had not the good fortune to be bishops.—
[" Hear, hear," from the Bishop of Exeter.] He was
glad to hear the Right Rev. Prelate assent to that pro-
position. If it was intended to raise up new doctrines,
or to modify old ones, it could only be &no by convoca-
tion, and it would not be a convocation by the law and
the constitution unless it included with the bishops
the inferior clergy also. Not only would it be wrong
and unconstitutional to exclude them, but it would be in
the highest degree inexpedient to do so,—(Hear, hear.)
Now, what was stated to be the object of the Bill? It
was said that it would produce peace and concord. But
was it quite certain that on getting rid of a tribunal
composed of a limited number of persons, and substi-
tuting another composed of a much .greater number,
bringing to that tribunal preconceiveci opinions—he
would not say preconceived prejudices—but precon-
ceived opinions which they could not easily lay aside;
he would ask whether they could believe that when all
those scattered seeds of doctrine which abound
at' this moment were driven within the enclosure of this
tribunal, a stream of harmony and concord would im-
mediately arise?—(Hear, hear.) He doubted whether,
within the precincts of the Church itself, there would be
much harmony; but if, unfortunately, it should become
notorious that there was only a majority—perhaps a
bare majority—of the bishops entertaining the view of
the doctrine or question submitted to them, and that the
minority consisted of perhaps the two archbishops and
the persons possessing the best information on the sub-
ject, who could expect the majority of the clergy t
suo
ac-
quiesce in such a decision? Any one expecting such
result must be very ignorant of human nature. Was
it
to be expected that the clergy would give up their opi-
nions when out of 32 persons 16 or 17 decided one way
and 15 another, they themselves having been excluded
from any part in the deliberations on which the decision
might be founded? The Right Rev. Prelate admitted
that the object of the Bill was to take the decision out
of the hands of incompetent parties and place it in the
hands of competent persons—that it took the reality
from the laity, leaving nothing but the form.—
(The Bishop of London made some remark which
did not reach the gallery.) If the object of the Bill
was not in any way to affect the existing doctrine,
but strictly to limit and confine the decision of fact, then
he would boldly say that laymen were most competent
to decide on that matter.—(Elear, hear.) Now, what he
asked the House to maintain was a good decisiou—a
decision from persons not pretending to be connoisseurs.
in theology, but persons able to distinguish what are
facts in theology and what are not—and this has been
the uniform course of the law and of the constitution.—
(Hear.) In all the cases which had fallen under his
observation, courts of law, in dealing with difficult cases,
with respect to which they did not possess such par-
ticular knowledge as would en-able them to come to a
satisfactory decision, bad uniformly done—what? Ab-
dicate their authority? Call upon the Queen to esta-
blish another tribunal? No such thing. They called
before them, as the Privy Council bad done on this oc-
casion, those persons who were best able to give them
authority, learning,. sad information. They had dons

4, _ 1850.

with regard to theology what had been with regard to
the other sciences. With respect to the science of
chemistry, in the case of Mr. Watt's invention,
what was the course taken by the Court of Chan-
cery? The Court tOoe: time to consider: it ex-
amined chemist after chemist, who were subject to a
variety of interrogatories; and having satified itself,
pronounced a decree which became the law of the land,
and gave the whole country (the chemists included)
perfect satisfaction. In that case the parties did not
turn round and call upon the Crown to constitute a new
tritrunal.—(Hear, hear.) From looking to the declare-
tions of our ancestors—from looking at the declarations
of eminent divines—from looking to the Articles them-
selves and the best writers upon those Articles, he had
come to the conclusion that it was the intention of the
founders of the Church to leave certain matters, in some
degree, open to opinion. To go back from that wise
policy, and to narrow the sphere of that opinion, far
from conducing to peace and quietness, would be only
an incentive to dissension.—(Hear, hear.) To require
union from good and wise, and holy men, upon every
branch of doctrine, weuld be the surest way of prevent-
ing the efficacious union of those good and wise, and
holy men, for the purpose of advancing those great in-
terests in which our prosperity and happiness, now and
hereafter, are involved.—(Hear, hear.) It was proposed
that the decision should be by a majority. Why
the effect of a majority so decided would be to bind
the public and the Church for one moment to one
opinion, but the other party would look forward to an-
other time when other Bishops would give a decision
adverse to that of the majority, and a continual contest
would be carried oa to procure the abrogation of the
decision—(Hear.) A worse state of things he could not
imagine.—(Hear.) He had no objection to state that,
while he could not sacrifice the principle of the Judicial
Committee as established by the Act of the Noble and
L-arned Lord—while he could not sacrifice the prero-
gative of the Crown as it had hitherto existed, he
thought it most desirable for the purpose of showing to
the public that these questions could not be determined
without the great authorities of the Church being fully
heard upon the subject—that it should not be left to the
Crown, that it should not be left to the Presi-
dent of the Council merely to invite the attendance
of the Right Rev. Prelates, but that all those who are
Privy Councillors should be members of the Committee.
These matters might be worthy of further consideration;
but believing that the present measure would tend to
keep alive the differences which at present unfortunately
prevailed, he should move that the Bill be read a second
time this day six months.—(Cheers.)
Lord BROUGHAM said the two speeches which had
just been delivered had placed their Lordships in pos-
session of the whole of the arguments on both sides ;
and he had no herniation in saying, if he were called
upon to say " Aye "or " No" to the question whether
they should proceed with the Bill without subjecting it
to alteration, he should at once vote for it's postpone-
ment.—(Hear.) He stood in a peculiar position on the
present occasion, which made him desirous of grappling
with the difficulties which surrounded this important
question—important for this reason that it trenched
upon great constitutional doctrines—important for this
other reason, that the people of England had their eyes
sedulously and anxiously directed to the controiersy—but
important, above all, because the venerable fabric of the
Church of England was now placed is circumstances
that filled all her friends with the greatest anxiety.—
(Hear, hear.) Why was he particularly anxious at this
moment? Because ho had established the pre-
sent tribunal on the ruins of the Court of Deleg :tes
and the Court of Review.—(Hear, hear.) There
were now great differences in the Church. The
Church was threatened with a schism. This could not
be denied, and therefore they should take great care that
no measures received their sanction which might afford
the least chance of widening the breach, and neither
should they hastily and without due consideration reject
a measure which was proposed for the purpose of heal-
ing the breach that now existed.—(Hear.) It was upon
those grounds that he had ccme to the conclusion that
they ought not at once and altogether to reject this Bill,
but they should see it they could remove those objec-
tions which he for one entertained against it, and which,
if he found to be insuperable, he would certainly give
to it his negative.—(Hear.) By this Bill it was pro-
posed that the prelates should decide, and should answer
the question "aye" or " no"—viz., "Is this the doctrine
of the Church of England," and when a majority of
the prelates had so settled that question, then the
Judicial Committee were to be bound by a decision
of the majority. Now he, as a member of the
Judicial Committee, had sworn to administer justice
according to his conscience, and that be could not do
if he was to be bound by the decision of another.
By the Bill now proposed the Judicial Committee would
be bound by the decision of 14 of the bishops, even
though they might be of opinion that the minority of the
13 bishops were great lovers of their flocks, and that the
14 were, he would not say less lovers of their flocks, but
less brilliant, less distinguished, and less eminent than
the minority.—(Laughter.) And then let them see
what would be the consequence of this. The 14 who
decided what were the doctrines of the Church declared
at the same time that the 13 held doctrines that were not
of the Church. The 13 bishops would be pronounced
to be heretics by those who decided against them.—
(Hear.) The prelates who decided that Mr. Gorham
was orthodox, must declare that the prelates opposed to
him were heterodox.—(Hear.) But then it had been
paid to him—how was he, a mere layman, to reverse the
decision of an ecclesiastical court? His answer was that
Sir Herbert Fust was as much a layman as himself.—
(Laughter.) Aye, it was answered to him, but he was
appointed by the archbishop. Aye, he replied, but
that did not make him a prelate; no, nor as much as a
deacon in the Church—(Laughter)—and if Sir Her-
bert Fust was appointed by tho archbishop, ho (Lord
Brougham) was appointed by one higher than
an archbishop—by the head of the Church—by one
who appointed the archbishop himself—(Laughter)—
and his court was, therefore, as much a spiritual court
as that of Sir H. Fust.—(Laughter.) Their judgment
might be aided by the opinions of able and learned men;
all the faithful, lay arid clerical, were interested in ascer-
taining whether there might not be some mode of obtain-
tug a satisfactory decision when differences in theologi-
cal opinions arose. The means, he thought, should be
afforded of obtaining the opinions of prelates who were
well qualified; but not that the Judicial Committee of
the Privy Council should be bound by their opinions. He
would not have a convocation of twenty-seven bishops,
but he would enable the bishops to select a certain num-
ber, who would report their opinions to the Judicial
Committee, to aid it in corning to a conscientious deci-
sion. There might be a certain number of bishops to
whom a case should he sent., those in whom the Judicial
Committee and the Church had the greatest confidence,
and if the numbers were four, and they differed, another
might be brought in to aid them. He had reason to think
that it a Bill with such modifications as he suggested
was sent elsewhere its success would be greatly facili-
tated. Making these suggestions, he cordially concurred
in the second reading of the Bill. As to a convocation,
if it were summoned they would have a schism, and
a prelate ut the head of clef' little schism. They
should all labour to sustain a Church which of all
Churches was the most pious, the most learned, and
the most tolerant. Other Churches might be as
learned, might be as pious, still no Church but the An-
glican Church united so much of all these iridispensanle
qualities—piety first, learning next, and above all
charity, meekness, and toleration.—(Cheers.) Of all
the Dissenters he had ever met whose opinions were
worth consulting he had always heard them say, God
forbid that evil should happen to a Church which we
have ever found to be a tolerant neighbour.—(Hear.)
This, then, was a reason why they should desire that
the breach should be healed and not widened. It would,
theref ire, be to all but the rabble crew who objected to
it on account of its revenue, a source of gratification
that the discord should cease, and that the Church
might rise up in renewed strength from its temporary
obscuration. Such was a prayer in which he heartily
joined with the Right Rev. Prelate.—(Cheers.)
The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S stated, that until
very recently be had entertained the hope that it would
be in his power to give his support to the Bill intro-
duced by the Right Rev. Prelate. It was not without
great pain, and not without anxious and mature
consideration, he felt bound to abandon that hope.
He could not assent to the dogma that there rested in
the body of the bishops in their official character any
peculiar or exclusive prerogative, or any pre-eminent
and transcendent qualifications, which
of
doctrine arising rendered them the
only proper judges upon questions
na gt
i o that
oa tf
w i hi n thhee
meu
shtusracyh .
heS
tow fulagrb t f
trboamt
tebneteorei
opinion
l would have been materially
the proposed court of app
the, other orders of the Church
improved if there had beebneearbassaocciaertetadinwinthumtbheer prelates,
or or with any number of t
sons drawn not only
not prepared to say
tic ble or emblieeenwparasc a not, but
bwubteatblsrs from
e wouldthhiem l
thataibtfuyr it would have been a great im-
vo.
it
did appear to
aenvt
erlyn tmheatceorutastitul on ti
objection to the measure; he of the court, and have
pre-
movedrovem
would observe, however, that if there had been no other
question involved than this he should have deemed it at
a
consistent with his duty to vote for the
least
tnd reading of the Bill, with a view of
afterwards removing its imperfections, and abat-
ing the disaivanteges which were likely to
result from the proposed constitution of the court. But
in his mind there were other and much graver objece
tions to the measure as now proposed. That clause of
the Bill which rendered the opinion of the assembled
bishops on the points of doctrine submitted to them
binding and conclusive on the members of the Judicial
Committee had already been objected to on what he
considered very strong grounds, but they wore not to his
judgment the only ones or the strongest. He must say
that that clause interfered very considerably with the
rights of conscience of the members of the Judicial Com-
mittee, considered not merely as members of the Privy
Council, but as members of the Church. It had been
considered that it would be a desirable qualification of
the members of that Committee that they should all he
members of the Church; but he did not understand how
it could be consistent with the rights of conscience thtaot
a lay member of theiChurch who might have inquiredd into
formed a decided and conscientious opinion
his
con-
viction upon the subjects submitted to himotoubce
touching
gound
religious faith, should be expected t
to the Bill, was
amnud concludedaotonily adoptby t the e
andopinion
act
upon
n th others,et so. far that
This,e
though constituting a grave o
that this measure
was willing to suppose
not the part which weighed mo"is(t'cluiPnon his
have
mightmind atilae
different time and under different circumstances
general objects;
been admirably adapted to its avowedright
g to consider the mea-
surebut he held that they had
circumstances connexion with t
take existing
in that general light, arlioidrit.tiat they ware lai)und.t to
believed that the present measure
(Hear, hear.) He
ts
proceedingstate of
well
kn
owhich
o
!leer,
had been produced
had arisen solely outb fec the
by
en
every one •
hear)—and he must take the liberty
of miureieg that its Specific *map was to provide a
r
irsa touorisithin-thorsi rnirdid > t recent ex.

- --.......10
isting evil—that its peculiar design was to restore sad
re-establish (if possible) peace, tranquillity, and har-
mony in the Church; and he thought that the main
subject of their Lordships' consideration was, whether
this, as a means, was or was not adapted to such
an end.—(Ho r, hear.) If it were a measure
that was likely to produce peace and harmony in the
Church, be should wish to know what party in the
Church it was designed to conciliate?—(Loud cheers.)
There was a large party in the Church who consi-
dered that the recent judgment was substantially right,
and that it had averted a great and serious evil and
danger from the Church. He did not mean to deny
that there were, even among these persons, many who
in the abstract were very much dissatisfied with the
present composition of the court of appeal in spiritual
matters, because they had objected most strongly to
the court below which passed the sentence that had
bem reversed by the existing court of appeal, and he
had a right, therefore, to infer that they were equally
dissatisfied with the constitution of the Judicial Com-
mittee of Council as a court for deciding questions of
this description. He believed, however, that it was a
clear and incontestible fact that these were not
the persons whom this measure would conciliate
or satisfy, but that, on the contrary, they
viewed it at least Kith a considerable degree of
distrust, of jealousy, and of alarm.—(Renewed cheer-
ing.) Then who else would be satisfied by the Bill?
It must be those persons undoubtedly who had expressed
feelings of distrust, of alarm, and, even as he had wit-
nessed, of consternation at the recent decision.—(gear,
hear.) But had this measure given satisfaction to them?
Why they had publicly declared themselves dissatisfied
with it. But who were the others who did approve of
the measure as it stood? He begged the House to con-
sider on what grounds and for what reasons it was that
these persons did approve of it. Was it not that they
regarded it simply as a stepping stone by which they
might advance to something beyond it?—(Hear, hear.)
This appeared to him therefore an insurmountable ob-
jection to the measure.—(Cheers.) Ile could describe
its practical effect as nothing but this—that it would
open a new arena for theological controversy—(Hear,
hear)—and the effect of opening that arena would and
must be to invite new combatants to try their strength
upon it, and to fight there what they would
salt " The Battle of the Church."—(Cheers.)
It was impossible for any one whose attention bad been
excited by the circumstances of the times to say that
this was an imaginary or a chimerical danger. For his
own part be could not shut his eyes to the scenes that
were passing near him, nor his ears to the language
which he found used on public occasions by persons who
did not scruple to avow that they looked forward to the
disrupturo of Church and State as a possible contingency,
Ai a calamity indeed, but not at all as the greatest of
calamities, but, on the contrary, as the least of two
evil:, the other evil being the failure of their own pecu-
liarly favourite scheme for the improvement of the
Church.—(Hear, hear.) If there were persons who con-
sidered this disrupture as the least of two evils,
and did not scruple so to express themselves, then
he felt strongly inclined to suspect that there were
others who viewed it with still more favour and de-
light, who were disposed to consider that catastrophe,
not as an evil, but rather as positive good. (if so much
he was certain, that there were persons who looked for-
ward to the euthanasia of the Church of England, and
considered that that Church should finally be merged in
the Church of Rome; and if these persons wished to ac-
complish that which they thought so desirable, the step
that they would most likely take would be to produce, if
possible, such a division and rupture within the Church
as should eliminate from it those of its members who
were the most firmly attached to the peculiar doctrines
of the Protestant Reformation—(Hear, hear)—and they
would have reason to suppose that, as soon as that con-
summation arrived, there would probably be interposed
but very feeble obstacles to that which they looked for-
ward to beyond it.—(Hear.) Divide et impera, he be-
lieved, continued to be a Roman maxim, and he was very
much afraid that it was becoming an English
one—(Cheers)—at least he believed that they who were
most eager to promote the division would be the fore-
most to give in their allegiance to the subsequent opi-
nioes.—Jlear.) In one way the present measure
directly tended to that end, by rendering almost ine-
vitable a fatal division in one great body of the Church
—namely, the Episcopate.—(Hear, hear.) Whilst en-
tertaining these views, however—and they were his
deliberate and settled convictions—he did not feel him-
self bound to divide against a measure to which he be-
lieved a majority of his Right Rev. Brethren continued
to give their support. Still he could not share in the
responsibility of a measure which, instead of being a
remedy, would most likely aggravate and multiply the
danger which threatened the Church.
Lord REDESDALE regretted the change which had
taken place in the opinions of the Right Rev. Prelate
who had just spoken in reference to this measure. It
was impossible things could go on in their present state.
There was a crisis in the Church, and matters could not
be left as they were without serious consequences._
(Hear, hear.) It was time that Right Rev. Prelates
stood forward and put them right. He held that too
great liberty to the clergy was en injury to tho laity.
He would ask their Lordships, supposing he lived in
a parish to which Mr. Gotham was appointed, and
assuming he objected to Mr. Gorham's doctrine,
was he not subjected to an injury in having such
a man to guide him and his religious opi-
nions, when the Right Reverend Prelates declared
they did not hold the same doctrines? Yet, in such a
case, he and his family would be bound all their lives to
submit to Mr. Gorham's teaching. With reference to
toe recent judgment, he would ask by whom was the de-
cision looked upon with satisfaction ? It was not looked
upon with as much a itistaction by any party in our own
Church, as by Roman Catholics and the extreme Dis-
! senters. They saw, by the decision, Churchmen were
put in sach a position in the eyes of the world, that it
was impossible to remain in connexion with the Church
unless they denied one of its Articles, The Right Rev.
Prelate proposed to those who advocated episcopal go-
ae rnment, that in such matters they should look to the
Bishops for guidance. lie considered there was less
difference of opinion likely to arise in the court as
proposed to be constituted than in the existing
court. He accepted the Bill, because the tribunal pro-
posed was the only Church tribunal in which an agree-
ment was likely to be obtained. He had never ex-
pressed violent opinion', nor had ho favoured violent
opinions in others. This was a period of great change.
It was not unlikely that the next appointment to the
bench would be Mr. Gorham himself. Many appoint-
ments had been made of late to show the subserviency
of the Church to the State, and many persons had been
forced on the Church who ought never to have found
themselves there.—(Hear.) '1 he present Ministry had
appointed one Right Reverend Prelate to the bench who
had laboured under the censure of his university on ac-
count of doctrinal questions. To show the feeling by
which appointments were made, nothing was more likely
than to see an order issue for the appointment of Mr.
Gorham to the bench. It was not proper that any
prerogative which it might be thought desirable for
the Sovereign to possess should be endangered
by an improper appointment to the office of
bishop. The supremacy of the Sovereign was
imposed and held under awful respomibilities.
The Sovereign was the head of the Church,
and bound to see that the Church did not suffer undeeher
reign. By the intervention of Parlismei.t, if persons
were forced on the Queen who ought not to be found in
the Church, the Queen might be placed in_anewayposition
to
in which duty was at war with expediency.herb respectable T
shterre nnlg
thnebne rtshe
, a
efmer sto
the Established
themselves proud of her alliance.
I
Church
to rch
enable' was o
those mak
me to
declare
Church did nut cornpire advantageously
fullwith other
purity
her churches, it was because she did not enjoy in
her Catholic doctrines.
Lord CAMPBELL considered that as no party matter,
but ,
anon, a
great
principle was involved in the
ti
to offer his opinion to the
douse. It would have given him
extreme pleasure
if he couldit
wasn.
conscientiously have supported the Bill. Ho
e o thi tius tio
dutyna l
had displayed in introducing the measure. No
had a great respect for the Right Rev. Prelate, and the
ability ne
oe was a more sincere friend than himself to the Estaa
blished Church. He believed the institute was beloved
by the great bulk of the people of England, and
that it had conferred, and was calculated to confer,
the greatest blessings on the kingdom. With the
objectionctdi
oo muu mcrnico, thnah: Bill.neidd(far a
whicht l i
thei
consideration,
likely
atinegsteorhsti
itobhri
desirableell i
itnmeagv po.apsb,t,
opaurretetdiot;
httpaet
rt,unprejudiced:avdpheipisnilitri.au
view of securing these benefits, he was forced to con-
rupae
The
impar-
tialunconstitu-
tional, sr theet ti; t-
the constitution of the Judicial Committee. It seemed
to him that this objection arose from not having pro-
perly considered what were the functions of that tri-
bunal. The functions of the tribunal were the functions
of a court of construction to explain documents. In his
opinion the meting court, as constituted, as far as the
explanation of the written doctrines, articles, and formu-
laries of the Church of England was concerned, was
better framed for such a purpose than the ?roeulartte.n
It
templa:ed by the Bill of the Right
as it had already
been truly explained, the tribuna' this tribunal was a lay tribunal. l
Now, 'no more a lay tri-
had been cited as a greet offence out of the House that
Durham. It was found
by experience as these courts
the Chancellor of the Bishop of Durham.
competent to decide
cats to call in the assist.
burial than were the Court of Arches and the Court of
ante of laymen, who act-d as the substitutes of church.
o
y
men. The Right Rev.
relate had said that an appeal
bishop, and from the
the archdeacon to the
questions, that it was advantage
lay from
that the Sovereign was the
head of the Church, and so it wast A lint le ng o-Saxow
tbiimsheos,pstoo
it thew a archbishop,s
b)the
But
Constitutions
f om iohfe
Clarendon,
the King. This admitted
and
,
so it was by the Reformation. the archbishop, the
bishop, and the archdeacon, had each their lay advisers,
and so bad the Sovereign. He (Lord Campbell) was
therefore of opinion, that offence had been taken
most unnecessarily that the Judicial Committee of
tne Privy Council was a lay tribunal, in contradis•
tinction to the interior courts from which the appeal
was made. The Court proposed by the Bill was to
consist of the prelates of the two provinces
of Canterbury and York ; but in his (Lord Campbell's)
opinion such a court would be mere mockery.
lie should think it far more respectful to move
the second reading of the Bill that day six months
than to agree to the principle propounded in the meas.
sure. It was proposed that this court should 'be an
as.t mbly of all the bishops iu England, and that their
fi t should be binding, not alone on the Judicial Com-
mittee of the Privy Council, but also on the Queen,
whom i' sought to make as much ministerial iu the
matter as possible—if the Bill had any principle it was
that; but if it was allowed that the title of " Head of
the Church" was not a mere honorary title or faculty,
as was that of the Sovereigns of France, but involved
the posseasion of substantial. power in ecclesiastical
the Bill, which in point of fact
proposed of the
of that power to iuvest it fa
ted to be established
ruthaettizeisli,owpstohaimblehsetestmahneealogy
attemp

between the operation of this court and that of the
Court of Chancery was idle; be cau.e in the case of the
Chancellor, as admitted by the Right R-v. Prelate,
on h to t the ot
there was no obligatiown
analon.law judges,whereas theacce Compmitteeo pi
o nionf
Privy
Council, and even the Sovereign, wiiu'd be bound by
the decisions of this court. The Right Rev. Prelate was
not consistent with himsPlr in the case ; for in a former
Bill, which he had introduced on the subject, hi had
made reference to the bishops in doctrinal cases only,
only voluntary, whereas he now sought to make it com-
pulsory. The Right Rev. Prelate said there could be no
court without a lawyer at the bead of it ; but what was
the assemblage of bishops proposed by his Bill but a
court, with all the powers of a court, and in the full
exercise of judicial authority ? The twenty-seven
members of that court, however, were to sit without
a lawyer at their head, to hear counsel, and to examine
witnesses, and to deliberate and to decide upon doctrinal
questions. If it was proposed that the decisions of the
twenty-seven members should be unanimous to be
valid, no man more than he (Lord Campbell) would
bow to their decisions ; but the Bill did not require una-
nimity, it merely required that there should be a majo-
rity, and, as the Bill directed that the names of those in
attendance should be recorded, the minority would be
known as di•senters, and it may b<, held up to thiS world
as heretic. Under these circumstances he could not hesi-

tate to oppose the Bill.
The Bishop of LONDON explained. The Bill re.
ferred cases of false doctrine alone to the tribunal consti

toted under it.
Lord LYTTELTON felt it to bo his duty, as a lay
Member of that House, to support the Bill. The oppo-
sition to the Bill went very much on the question of con-
sequences; but he could assure the House that the risk
of consequences was not all on the one side. The real
meaning and intent of the supremacy given to the Crown
at the period of the Reformation was expressed in the
preamble of the great Statute of Appeals. In one
statute however—sot that of appeals—unreserved
power was conceded to the Sovereign to appoint
whom he chose t: the Court of Deleeetes. Nevertheless.
the supremacy of the Crown should be construed
according to the general spirit of the statutes passed
at the period in which it was conceded. He maintained
that the royal prerogative was not given to be exer-
cised arbitrarily; but that it was to be exercised in
temporal matters by the temporal authority, and in
spiritual natters by the spiri.ual power. What he
(Lord Lyttelton) understood by voting for the Bill.
was to declare in the first place that the constitution of
the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council was bad.
No satiefection e' be given to a large body of mem-
bers of the Church by a recent decision of that tribunal;
and what he desired, therefore, to see was a deltberhte
considerat•on of such questions by the Brest body of the
dignitaries of the Churcteaud a well-considered statement
of doctrine on the subject of that breach and on all other
similar subjects.
The Earl of CHICHESTER would vote in favour of
the amendment. He denied that the opposition to the
Bill ea; a party measure. He opposed it not because
he was 'a supporter of the Government—though he re-
joiced the Government objected to it—but beceuse he
haselcome to the conclusion that it was dangerous to the
constitution, not only of the country, but of the Church
itselt
Lord STANLEY could not resist, in a few words, ex-
pressing his regret that the Noble Marquis should have
thought it necessary not only to object to the provisions
'of the Bill, but, on the part of the Government, to put
his 'veto upon the introduction of any measure of any
description or character purporting or intending to
obviate the acknowledged difficulty and existing evil.
It was notorious that a great and practical evil
existed. That great evil was this—that at this mo•
rnent the Church of Enelend was placed in a position
more disadvantageous than any other religious body on
the face of the glob .—(Hear.) She had in herself no
authoritative means of declaring, through her recignised
organs and teachers and heads, her doctrines when case,
of heresy arose, ur when eh ctrines were in dispute.—
(Hear.) Nothing was more certain than that at the
time of the Reformation it was intended to confirm to
the Church the fullest power of authoritatively declaring
her own doctrines. It was declared in 1562, by his
Majesty, thet " out of our princely care to the Church,
and that Churchmen may du the work that is proper
unto them, the bishops and clergy from time to time, in
convocation, upon their humble desire shall have licence
under the broad seal to deliberate and do all such things
ae, beiug meetiened by them and assented to by us, stall
concern the sethed doctrines and discipliee of the
Church of Iliglaud as now established."—(Hear, hear.)
It was impossible that words could be more clear to
show that it was intendei that spiritual body under
the' authority of the Crown should from time to time.
not introduce new innovations or fresh arguments, but
should explain and expound the doctrine and teaching of
the Church of England, and that such explanation
should be intrusted, nut to all, but to spiritual persons
only.—(Hear, hear.) He would not enter into the ques-
tion as to the propriety of summoning a convocation.
Ile would rest contented with the admit', ion of the Noble
Marquis that the present is not a satisfactory tribunal,
and that by changes of legislation the Judicial Com-
mittee of the Privy Council might have to decide on
matters affecting the doctrine of the Church of England
when the majority of them might not be members of
the Church. The Noble Marquis and the Noble Eat]
bad taken a very high tone in speaking of the propose d
new tribunal—one or them saying that it was unconsti-
tutional, and the other that it was a violation of the con-
stitution of the country. Now what was this uncoil-
atitutiona I tribunal? The Noble Marquis the other
day spoke rsith esti'« me reverence of the antiquity of
the constitution of i'tew South Wales, and of the
danger of dierurbing that antiquity, which was six
or seven years old—(A laugh)—and' now it was
said to he uncons'itutionat to disturb that tribunal of
which the antiquity dated back eo further than 18,32.
(Hastr, 'near.) But it was said the proposed alteration
would interfere wish the supremsey of the Crown. Wise
the supremacy of the Crown was exercised through the
courts of the Crown, and the Crown eas bound by the
decision of its courts of appeal, regularly and legiti-
mately constituted. And how were these tributials cot-
stituted? Not by any act of the prerogative, bun by the
will of Parliament.—(Hear.) Tne Judicial Committee
of the Privy Council was as mach the creation of Parlia-
ment as the tribunal now proposed by the Right Rev.
Pcclate, the object of which was only to aid and assist
in she deliberattons of the Judicial Committee.—(Hear.)
Now what were the cases intended to be tried by this
tribunal.? Were they most fit to be tried by laymen or
ecciesiastics? The early Reformers thought they came
propex ly under the cognizance of ecclesiastical and
spiritual persons.--(Hear.) Bur, said the Noble Earl,
it you give this power to this tribunal, you are giviug
the power of establishirig Lew articles of religion.
If so, the Judicial Committee had that power, because
•the power to be vested in the new tribunal was the same
as that posse.,sed by the present,—(Bear, hear.) IVith
a knowledge of the datpp:rs new threatening the Church,
he deeply regretted that the Noble Marquis had declined
enteric;; into a consitieradon of the remedy now sug-
gested. He did not sympathise with those who, when
they found the Church ot England hampered and let-
tered by her coonexiuu with the State, were prepared to
separate from her communion. He could not cocci ae
from hiaielf the fact, that if their Lordships, by re-
jecting the second reseing of this Bill, ste old determine
to apply no remedy—should declare they would do
nothing to remedy the grievance of which Churchmen
loudly and justly complained—that they would run the
risk of separating from the communion of the Church,
so fettered and controlled by the State', a number of its
ablest and most devoted memhers.—(Hear.) He be-
longed to no party in the Church—be was not one of
those who advocated extreme opinions—he was not
ono of those who desired to see points which had
been wisely tett by our ancestors with a certain latitude
brought forward and dogma ieally laid down, and per-
haps unnecessarily exclusitig, on one side or the other,
members who might conscientiously hold opinions which
are not emphatically condemned by the Church—(eear,
hear)—but he did say this, that it was right that the
Church should have the power tnrough its authorised
representatives, with the articles and teachings and writ-
ings of the tethers of the Church in their hands, to de-
eare that such is now, that such ever has been from the
commencement, the doctrine and teaching of the Church;
•.ogrei,eosrettutnheh ono
upon which
to declare that such and such a
many sincere clergymen have
entertained different op'l
allows a latitude, and "":18—upon which the Church
has not declared itself in any for-
mal and authorised
present Bill woutTdr.—te(aCdhteoermeh)ltlipt lhyaddtbsseeennsisoanids
that the
in the church. Now, he entertained a very different
opinion. He did nut believe tht
possibility upon any therequestion was: the smallest
" Is this or thatchis partisular pointiebeahnetireepluyndaocutiteegd
is respect for
the
doctrine and teaching of the Church?" _.hie
episcopal bench prevented him from
abelievingdifference that
on sucha question there could arise such
• of
opinion as that there should be
he
other,—(
members
Bear, ellresaoseh)
one side and thirteen on the
There might be a ditihrence in this as in many other
cases, and he knew of no other way of providing for it
.
except by the authority the judges who were called
upon to decide. _ But while he had no apprehension
Crown, and aout the ue..
coustitutional nature
about the supremacy tbe
of the alteration proposed—nay.
•
. more, while he had no fear of the exercise of the power
which the Bill proposed to vest in the bishops of the .
Church of England, yet, voting for the second read-
ing, he must Day that he should see with satisfaction
some alteration made in Committee which would not
withdraw from the Ju lieial Committee of the Council
• the power of passing a sentence, it, in point of fact, that_e
appeared to be an important reervattoy•—(Hear.)
s• would not constitute the bishops a court for the purpose
of liaising their sentence; but he thought the .I'.l would
be a great improvement upon the present state of things,
and that it was worthy of consteleration whether the
bishops of the Church of England might not, with re-
gird to all leavers or doctrine and teaching, be placed
precisely upon the sear, footing upon which, will] regard
to °titters of law, the judges a the laud are placed
when they are called upon to advise their Lordships as
the hi,,,h,st tribunal on any in utter of doubt.—(Hear,
hear.) As he would entrust to the judges the in terpre-
Neon of the civil haw, nu he wound entrust the bishops
of tho Churen of England with the interpretation of the
Articles of this Church of England, eau would receive
with implicit confidence the judgment and authority of
the bishops. It would not be absolutely necessary for
the Judicial Committee to follow the advices were
soratendered.
Certainly whoa the opieiens of the judges
dered their Lordships were guided by them,ahleetehrotgnh7
• there had been some memorable exceptions. T
one in particular in which their Lordships were
nut was
"tgest
guided by the opinions of the majority et the judges;
but in other cases their Lordships were always in
the
habit of bring guider! by the opinions of the judges.
The ,larquis o. LANSIJUWNE—Not always.
Lord STANLEY—As a general rule their Lordships
were in the habit of bring guided by the opinions of the
jratiStOos to whom they constitutionally referred; and he
was convinced that in ninety-nine cases out of 100 the
judkial ComlaWee would in diteoled by the opinion of

the bishops upon questions of doctrine in precisely the
same manner.—(Hear hear.) He certainly should ob-
ject to refer to the discretion of any parti —to the dis-
cretion of the Judicial Committee sit the Privy Council,
or the Minister of the dad, that salecti n of the arc -
bishop or bishops—tor the guidance and direction i f the
whole Church. It was because he saw an evil with
which it was necessary to grapple without loss of
time that he could not follow the example of one
Right Rev. Prelate, who, because be was desirous of
condemning the Bill, declared he would record his
vote against the second reading.—(Hear, hear.) Here
was a Bill brought forward on the authority of a Right
Rev. Prelate for whom no man entertained a higher
respect. He believed the Bill had received the assent of a
majority of the members of the Episcopal bench, and he
knew it was supported by a large body of clergymen of
various shades of opinion and by many of the laity, and
seeing no other remedy for the great and grievous evil
which existed he could not consent to vote against the
second reading of the Bill, which he would rather accept
in its present shape than have no measure at all; but
which, when modified in Committee, would answer the
reasonable expectations of all who desired a change of
the present system.—(Hear.)
The Earl of HARROWBY, disapproving of the
principle of the Bill, could not vote fur the second read-
ing. He for one said he would not entrust the power
now sought fur to any body of ecclesiastice. He be-
lieved they were safe iu the hands of the judges as inter •
preters. If the heresy was one which required the eye
of a theologian to discover it, he believed it was better
to let it alone.—(Cheers.) This, he said, was the course
for them to pursue in this free country. It was better
for them to leave things us they were.
The Bishop of OXFORD said he had never risen
with so much reluctance in that House as on that occa•
sion—a reluctance which was founded, not on any doubt
as to the vote he was about to give, or the side he ought
to advocate, nor even the feeling that in the part he took
he would be subjected to the imputation of party motives
or party feeling, or that he was desirous of promoting
the separation between Church and State. In order to
discuss this question, he wished to bring them back t i
great principles. What, he asked, was the object and the
purpose of the Church, about which they were to legislate?
Was it fur the gratification of the feelings of individuals?
One Noble Lurd said he was a friend of the Church.
\
Yes; he was a member of the Church on one side of a
river, and not a member of the Church on the other side
of the river.—(Laughter.) But the Noble Lord said he
was a great friend of the Church. Now, he would ask
that friend of the Church, if the Church were founded
that men might let lung to it or not as they liked, as if it
were a club ?—(lelear.) The Church was founded to
maintain a certain deposit of truth. Fur that object it
must have the means of chclarieg what was he truth,
whenever the truth was impugned. Then with whom was
that power lodged, and by whom was it to be adminis-
tered? He ts.ls el every Noble Lord who came there
pledged to vole against the Bill, who' were the proper
judges of wnet was the original deposit of the truth ?
Must it be men outside the Church or men in it? The
Noble Lord who spoke last said that so far from eccle-
siastics being the best, they were the worst, because they
knew too much. The same fallacy rue through the argu-
ment of the Noble Marquis. There was a truth re-
vealed—that was not Lobe added to or diminished to the
end of time. The greatest of all innovators was time
The authority was established to prevent toe corruptions
of that great innovator, and that authority must say
"this is new, and, therefore, it is wrong."—(Hear, hear.)
When the Church bad assembled at Nicea, it met merely
to decide the meaning of the word " son." That
which was then the question upon which the bulk of
the Church hinged was settled by the discussion of the
matter amongst those who were appointed the trustees of
its filth, and who bore that commission which we bear in
our hands at this very moment, The name of Athanasius
was great, inasmuch as hest! evented Arius from founding
a new doctrine, by simply expounding the sacred words
according to the interpetatioa which the Catholic has
always put upon it. Would Noble Lords, he asked, be
content to have the question which was settled at Nicea
settled by the Judicial Committee of the Privy C until?
fbe part of the laity in olden times was to accept stud
ratify these truths. He would hate the laity to do the
same now. The office-bearers of the Church have been
invested with these powers fur the purpose r f guiding
and directing the laity. They are entrusted with a de-
posit of truth which they cannot throw aside. He con
teased that be heard with pain the speech of the Right
Rev. Prelate bellied him, because it seemed to him to in-
volve that which was very objectionable, namely, that
there was no such thing as truth beyond what each
man had thought to be truth. He believed that the
principle sought to be established by the opponents to
this measure was highly dangerous at this particular
moment. He thought that the objections that were urged
against the Bill emanated from an impatience of con-
trol. Tnis was one of the most tearful symptoms of the
present day. If the result sought for by the Noble Mar-
quis be attained, the last hope of a greet many who were
ewaitieg this decision with feverish auxie y would be
extinguished. In one arcedeecoury alone there were 140
of the clergy who had petitioned iu favour of this Bill.
He regretted much the language used by the Noble Lord
on the present occasion—language characterised by more
than his usual impetuosity. The Noble Lord had almost
pronounced a declaration of war against every one in the
Church of England who was not prepared to give up
what they considered was the sacred truths entrusted to
their custody. We were told, that this Bill if it passed,
would intr,nge upon the Queen's supremacy. lie denied
it. Lie valued that supremacy as highly as any man
living. The Crown is the ultimate appeal in all ques-
' dons Ecclesiastical and civil, and is to decide such
questions through the proper constitutional agents.
Chet was the supremacy of the Crown.—(War, hear.)
All that the Bill proposed to do is t 3 furnish to the
Crown additional means of information. 'I he Noble
Lord said that if we once committed matters of decoke
to the settlement of the bishops, the first question that
eould be asked would be, ' What is the doctrine?" He
(the Bishop of Oxf aid) should say mat. it is at present,
and ought ever to be, the very first question asked.—
(Hear.) This appeared to be the most extruordinay ob-
jection that he had ever heard tweed against a measure
of this kind. But this objection, after all, proceeded
from a eery le.w estimate of the Church's office—from
a feeling that we ought to be full of kindness and tolera-
tion towards the most unorthodox, iristead of viewing us,
as Christ'o ministers, with a responsibility which we could
riot shake off. Loving the Church ef England, and be-
lieving it to be God's choicest blessing amongst the un-
',timbered blessings that have been poured spoil this
happy land—believing that it teaches those doctrines of
Christ which were so nobly taught by the Reformers
three centuries ago—believing that it is the bul Nark of
England's throne, and the safeguard of English liberty,
he fur one would support with all his heart a measure
shich he considered essential to her interests—the re-
j, ction of which, he was confident, would tend to her
severance. But when they had done all that they would
have weakened the Church irreparably in her highest
vi cation.—(Cheers.) The Church of Scotland had been
allowed more power than was now asked for the Church
of Eugland. It had been said to-night that they were
asked to upset the wisdom of centuries, but that as
eeritun had been met by the Noble Baron opposite.
He besought their Lordships not to be led away
from doing justice by any fear of what might fol.
1(4. Let them go into Committee to give the measure
their consideration. Do not alienate from the Church
finally and for ever a pretty large body of the English
Church.—(Cries of " Oh!") He rei eared it—do not
let them alienate from the Church a pretty large body
of the Church by the conviction that they will not be
met with justice, but listen to their complaints, and see
whether they could not remedy their wrongs.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE explained.
The Earl of CARLISLE said, that the proposal of
the Right Reverend Prelate being to constitute the
bench of bishops a new court of appeal, any objection
to the measure might by some be regarded as involving
disrespect to their own colleagues; but for his own part,
its objecting to the measure he disclaimed any intention
of casting a slight upon the Right Reverend Bench. A
Noble Lord opposite had found fault with the heads of
the Church for not taking a more active part as
leaders in the movement; but he thought the thanks of
the country were due to them for not following the ex-
treme party in the agitation. In expressing his regret
that he was not able to concur in the proposal, he did
not wish it to be understood that be would condemn
an alteration in the court of appeal if it were advisable
at the present time to make it. At the proper time he
sisould not be disposed to make the ecclesiastical mem-
bers of the Privy Council the actual members of the
court of appeal. But on the present occasion he was
nut prepared to vote for the second reading with the
view of adopting any such proposition. They had been
told that the measure was brought forward to secure
the peace of the Church; but what would be the effect
of the Privy Council finding themselves precluded
from adopting a suggestion recommended by a ma-
jority of' the bishopsr Would not such a division be
prejudicial to the union and peace of the Church?—
(Rear,ehrit was, whether
.He thought the question they had now to
reference i
et wasitb desirableeither
t
precedent,) adopt the
or
the
pro-
posal 24 t h Henry VIII. As regarded thoe Queen's supremacy;
estates
eg ceoeudidtbbee so diffelrent as the law which now
Re would
the
et
Council follow Propootas of the Right Rev. Prelate.
If apprehended eqh
questions
ensfei
o.dd
Ricigeahtwellere
niPf
different
thatreer
al
eat
ntt eel
se
sfi
Ili oetomwott
hhreee
present circu
Commit of Nicea; hebutthe
circum-
stances of
aabotactarein"se. the bench of bishops might be
mere abstractjededs;
but. theyeewderebequesions serech affected
et that
tt
they
ynewnot
would
df
bpero pbeert ttere
r;
the best i
the rights of families
best
evidence and weigh
and he, therefore, thong
et
of the aonftabletieraalabthd :
what
wisest
be m e
decided by men accustomed
results. At all times thetb
eteneefices in this
differed on the subject
tars'e were of
con-
tended was, that men enjoyed
country by the law of the land. These
too high bn d too serious a nature to admit ofdogmatichave
assertion, meeing that some of the wisest
ar-
rived at different conclusions. He thought the recent
judgment was one which should give universal satistac-t
tier'; and, seeing its happy issue, he should be sorry to
see their Lordships do any ant which by superseding the
tribunal that delivered it, would appear to pass a censure
open that tribunal. In conclueion, he would only say,
that as the Right Reverend Prelate had alluded mist
if
feelingly to the condition of the Church, and bitterly es
'
he (the Earl of Carlisle) should feel the los
they s of those
they
yt hmo tui gs ht t
sit very loosely
es
hmaikneenntoffmoenn
on the Chin ch's garment. If the Church grasped at no
this occasion, to
power, she gained in power and influence; and as far as
her political relations were concerned, in peace and quiet
would be her assurance for ever. But if she grasped at
powers not her own, and sought pecuniary resources
from the national funds', it would be, her weakness, her
impotence, and her ruin. Be believed the plan of the
Right Rev. Prelate to be a sort of compromise between
discordant opinions; but even if adopted by that House,
lie could net augur in favour :of its ultimate success.
Re held in his hand a memorial from some of the most
Plow ClOriganit W Loncim oggial On MOW; Ilwi it

•

would have been signed by many of the same character
in the country, only they looked upon it as certain of
defeat. He therefore implored their Lordships to reject
ir, and by so doing remove f.irther c u.e+ of di,4conte,.t.
The Bishop of LONDON repli,d.—Tne Noble E,rl
said thi4Bill would affect property; but is should be recol-
lected that those clergy men who held benefices held
them exclusively on the condition of teaching the truth.
The decision of the bishops would be binding, not upon
her Majesty, but upon the Judicial Committee.
Lord CA rIPBELL said the decision of the new tri-
bunal would be binding and conclusive " for the purposes
of the appeal;" and there fore it would be binding and
conclusive upon the Queen as well as upon the Judicial
Committee of the Privy Council. There was nothing to
qualify it. True, it was stated the decision should be
speoially reported to the Queen; but there was nothing
is the Bill left for her discretion in adopting it.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE expressed his regret at
being obliged to vote against her Majesty's Government;
he had attended strictly to the debate from conscientious
motives, and every one who knew him knew he was no
bigot; but those motives prevented him from acquiescing
in the view of the Government on the question. He
looked on the question as one of religion—there was
nothing of party in his view of the matter—he only
went on the ground of faith, and he could not, there-
fore, conscientiously consent to oppose the second reading
of the Bill.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading ... 51
Against it ... 84
Majority for the Government —33
Adjourned at Half-pa•t One o'cloek.

Now ready at all the Libraries, in 2 vole., post Svo.,
0 0 D.
A NOVEL.
" The author, we are convinced, is young, otherwise we could
hardly set displayed such fresh and enthusiastic sympathy in be-
half or his heroes and heroines. He is a Iv riter of genius, inspired
by a hiai standard of morality and religion, ant by a laudable love
of the purest sort of fame. We gather this from the glowing lan-
guage in which be expresses his feelings, sentiments, and opinions
on the subjects just mentioned. There are several chapters, in
which links of the story are dropped, containing most eloquent essay s
on matters that are the prima mobile of the actions which cha-
racterise nature's nobility. The writer evidently belongs, though he
has marked per se peculiarities, to the school of the Die. aelis, Man-
nerses, and Smythes."—Observer.
" • Silwood' is no ordinary work ; it contains passages of exceed-
ing beauty, and is written in pure and forcible language, with gloat
good taste and power. It is one of the most interesting and en-
gaging novels which the present season has pro.suced. Of the cha-
racter of Amelia Ross we have already spoken, and the extract we
have given above is the surest voucher of the truth of what we have
said. The other ladies who play conspithions parts in the talefure
Florence Howard, an intellectual beauty; Jessie Gordon, a wild and
impulsive genius, passionately fond of music and poetry; and Julia
Maitland, the noblest and best of them all."—Morning Post.
Richard Bentley, New Burlington-street.

•
Elt MAJESTY'S THEATRE.
The nobility, patrons of the Opera, and the public are respect-
fully informed that on THURSD ne ,t, June (which will be in-
cluded in the Subscription). will be pre ented, for •he first time, an
entirely new grand Opera by Halevy, the Poem by scribe, founded
on "The Tempest" of Shakspeare, and composed expressly for her
Majesty's Theatre, entitled
LA TEMPESTA.
The Scenery by Mr. Charles Marshall ; the Incidental Dances by
31. Paul Taglloni ; the Costumes by Mr. Combes and Miss Bradley,
under the superintendence of Mme. Copere; the Machinery by Mr.
D. Sloman ; the Appointments by Mr. E. Bradwell.
Dramatis Personm —Alfonso (King of Naples), Sig. Lorenzo;
Prospero (Duke of Milan), Sig. Coletti ; Antonio (his brother, the
Usurper), Sign n• F. Eabiache ; Ferdinand (Prince of Naples), Signor
BAucarde ; Trinculo, sfdile. Parodi ; Sycorax, Mdlle. Ida Bertrand ;
Spirit of the Air, Miss Catherine Hayes; Arid, Mdlle. Carlotta
Guist; Caliban Signor Lablache ; and Miranda, Madame Sontag.
Courtiers, Soldiers, Mariners, Elves, Sprites of the Air and of the
Deep, tc.
On this occasion M. Halevy will have the honour t 3 preside in the
Orchestra.

HER MAJESTY'S THEATRE•
In consequence of the preparations required for the produc-
tion of the aew grand Opera La Tempesta, the neat grand Classical,
Dramatic, Musical Entertainment will not take place at her Majes-
ty's Theatre until FRIDAY MORNING, June 21, on whicq occasion
M. BENEDICT will give his grand ANNUAL MORNING CON-
CERT, supported by a varied combination of talent, including all the
immense resources of the establishment, vocal and instrumental-

HER MAJESTY'S THEATRE
THIS EVENING,
Will be presented (for the last thne) Dunizetti's celebrated Opera,

- .
sLIJ IA Dl LAMMERMOOR.
Lucia, Miss Cath .rive Hayes; Enrico, Signor Belletti ; Bidebe-
bent, Signor F. Fablache ; Edgardo, Mr. Sims Reeves.
Between the acts a Divertissement, in which Amalia
Ferraris will appear.
After which a selection from the admired Opera,

L'ELISIR D'AMORE.
Adina, Madame Frezzolini ; Nemorino, Signor Calzolari ; Belcore,
Signor Itelletti.
Comprising Scena and Duetto, Esulsi pur. Adina and 3,- emorino
Terzetto, In Guerra, Adina, Nemorino, and Beicore— Grand Finale
to the firs act Scena an i Duetto. Venti Nemorino and Bel-
core— ria, Bravo, Bravo, Belcore—Chorus—Romanza, Una ford e
lagrima, Nemorino—Rondo and Finale, Adina
To conclude with the highly successful Ice Ballet, by M. P.
Taglioni, entitled
LES PLAISIRS DE L'IIIVER ; ou, Les Patineurs
Euphrosyne, Wile. Carlotta Grisi ; male, Mdlle. Marie Taglioni ;
Eglaia, Mdi,e. Amalia Ferraris.
Applications for Bo:tee, Stalls, and Tickets to be made at the Box
Office of the Theatre.

ROYAL ITALIAN OPERA, COVENT-GARDEN.
SECOND APPEARINCE OF SIGNOR RONCONI.
THIS BYRNES G _ _

The Performances will commence with the second act of a grand
Opera, founded on Verdi's IN abucodonosir, entitled

ANAT.).

Abigaile, Madame Castellon; Fenena. Madile. Vera; Arms,
Mdile. Cott"; Rodiano, Signor Tagliatico; Rossano, Signor Soldi
High Priest or Isis, Signor Gregorio ; Dario, Signor Tomberitit
Anato, Signor Roncont (second appearance this season).

After which (first time berg)
IL BABBIEItE DI SLVIGLIA.
Composer, Director of the Music, and Conductor, M. Costa.
The Performances win commence at Bight o'clock.
Tickets for the Boxes, Stalls, or the Pit. may be had at the Box•
office of the Theatre, which is open from Ten to Five.

FRENCH FLATS.—ST. JAMES'S THEATRE.
M. Scribe's comedy of LA CAMARADERIE.
Monsieur REGNIEII respectfully announces that his BENEFIT,
will take place

TO-MORROW EVENING

when the Entertainments will commence at Eight o'clock pre-
cisely, with the petite comedy
LEs EXTREMES SE TOUCHENT.
After which will be presented
LA CAMARADERIE,

Boxes and Stalls may be secured at Mr. Mitchell's Royal Library,
33, Old Bond-greet ; and at the Box-office of the Theatre, which
is open daily from Eleven t.ll Five o'clock.

THEATRE ROYAL, HAYMARKET.
Mr. B. Webster, Sole Lessee and Manager, Old Bromptoa.

TEiic 'VGNIN

Will be presented an entirely new and original Comedy,
by Douglas Jerrold, entitled TILE CATSPAW. Captain
Burgonet, Mr. Howe; Mr. Sn iwball, %.Ir. Keeley ; Doctor Petgoose,
Mr. James Wallack ; Audley, Mr. Charles Selby; Appleface, Mr.
Buckstone ; Dust, Mr. Tilbury; Coolcard, Mr. Benjamin Webster;
Duggens, Mr. Ellis; Snowball's Servant, Mr. A. Brindal ; Mrs.
Peachdown's =ervant, Mr. Coe; Mrs. Peachdown, Miss Reynolds;
.;assandra, Mrs. L. S. Buckingham ; Rosemsry, Mrr. Keeley.
To conclude with the Last Edition of IVANIIOE, with all the
iewest improvements.

Cedric the Saxon, Mr. J. Bland ; Sir Briant de Bore Guilhert, Mr
Selby; Sir Wilfrid of Ivanhoe, Mrs. Keeley; Wamba, Mr. Suck-
tone ; [saac of York, Mr. Keeney ; Robin Hood, Mrs. Fitzwilllam ;
nobec,ca, Miss P. Horton.

The &a-office to ender the direction of ,fr. I. T. Archer.

THEATRE ROYAL, ADELPIII.
Under the direction of Madame Celeste.
THIS EVENING,

Will be performed an entirely original Musical Comic Drama, called
THE WHITE SERJEANTS; or the Buttermilk Volunteers.
Ma or Slowman, Mr. 0. Smith; Jemmy Tweezer, Mr. Wright;
Captain Ginge- Green, Mr. P. Bedford ; Tommy Rusk, Mr. Mun-
yard ; Madi e. de Tourville, Madame Celeste; Susan Pockets, Miss
K. Fitzwilliams ; Dolly Duggins, Miss Woolgar.
After which a new Terpsicorian Burlpsque Eetitled ESMERALDA
To conclude with a new and original Farce, in the
Vulgar Tongue, to be called JACK IN THE GBEEN ; or, Hints on
Etiquette.

ROYAL LYCEUM THEATRE
THIS EVENING

Will be performed BOX AND COX.
To be torowed by an entirely new and original antici-
pation of what may possibly occur one of these days, entitled
NOVELTY FAIR ; or, Hints for 1851. Characters by Messrs. C.
Mathews, F. Matthews, Binge, Bellingham, Cooke, and Chiales ;
Miss St. George, Miss Kenworthy, Miss Glover, Miss Oliver, Miss
Eardley, and Miss Martindale.
To conclude with THE ISLAND OF JEWELS. Characters by
Jlessrs. d. 51 tthews and F. Cooke; Miss Oliver, Miss Julia St.
George, Miss Dickinson, Miss Keuworthy, Mrs. Macnamara, Miss
Martindale. and Miss E. Bonner.

All applications for Private uoxes must be made to Mr. Allcroft
'5, New Bond-street.

The Box-office, adjoining the Theatre, in Wellington-street, is
open daily from Ten to Six o'clock, under the superintendence of
Mr. T. F. Bennett

ASTLEY'B ROYAL AMPHITHEATRE.
Proprietor and Manager, Mr. W. Batty.
Enormcns success of the Holiday attra t ons.
The Grandlit ay Spectacle of the Afghanistan War. Brilliant
D splay of Equestrian Wonders in the Scenes in the Arena, by the
first Artistes in Europe.

THIS EVENING,
The Entertainments will commence at Seven o'clock, with
the immensely successful grand National 31illtary Equestrian and
Dramatis Spectacle (in three acts) entitled
THE AFFCHIANISTAN WAR ; or the Revolt of Cabul and British
Triumphs in India.
Produced with every possible care to all its original and mas-nificent
effec's, calling into action the unequalled resources of the esta'..)
lishm ent.
A Brass Band engaged expressly for the occasion, and a host of
Auxiliaries.

To be succeeded by an Inimitable Display of Batty's Feats of
Equitation in the Cirque Olympique, introdu, ing La Petite Jeannette,
the Infant Prodigy, and the diminutive steed Hare Bell, in a pecu-
liarly Novel Act of Menage, and Madile. Gardoni on the Tight Rope.
To conclude with a laughable Farce.
Boz•oftice open From Eleven till Four.
Stage Manager, Mr. W. West.

Under the Patronage of her Most Gracious Majesty, his Royal
Highness Prince Albert, &c
Second week of Mons. JULLIEN.
ROYAL SURREY ZOOLOGICAL GARDENS.
OPEN every MONDAY, TUED AY.SDAY, WEDNESDAY, and
THUR,

Prodigious Success of the entirely new-modelled Dioramic Pic-
ture representing the PASSAGE of the ALPS by Napoleon and his
Army ! the largest Picture in the World! with innumerable moving
Figures the size of life. Modelled,
A,arnsFainted,l, by
TMhre.
Danson and Son. assisted by Mess'.
. Picture has occupied the Messrs. Danson for many months, and it is
confidently submitted to tie Public as a chef-d'oeuvre of art, and not
inferior to any production of the day.
enriched
nEeehea.s lately been by several
v
The Musical Dipartment wid be conducted by Mons. Julllen and
uh teb !e Splendid
Presents
AGMr. Godfrey. It will be the alas of the Establishment to offer
NerethEeßQl
for the gratification of the Subscribers and the Public, the
most Splendid Military Band in the Kingdom ! 1 Selected
from the Bands of her Majesty's Horse and Foot Guards, and the
most eminent Artistes in the profession.
The following list of engagements will, It is hoped, convince the
Public, that the long-acki.owle,'ged excellence of the Band of this
Establishment will be full} maintained ! The Repertoire of Music
will be most extensive and varied, arranged from the most Popular
Operas In this and other countries. Solo-Players—Messrs. Kcenig,
Lazarus, Prosperre, Colinet, Pratten, Jarrett, Sonnenberg, Sommers,
and 'Winterbotham.
During the evening a grand Colossal, Scenic, and Pyrotechnic
Tableau illustrating the celesrated Picture by David, of Buonaparte
Crossing the Alps! Showing a general view of the Region, of the
Alps, stretching from the small mountain lake in the foreground to
the distant snow-clad mountains, crowned by the stupendous Mount
St. Bernard and its far-famed Monastery. A portion of the French
Army is first seen " en bivouac," presently the drums beat to arms,
and amid the clash of Military Bands and Martial Music, the Troops
commence the Ascent. The Soldiers are neon dragging the Artillery in
Trunks of Trees, now ascending almost Perpendicular Heights, and
traversing the most Terrific Ravines, but all difficulties are overcome,
and the Gallant Army is seen pursuing its course to the Fertile
Plains of Italy.
The whole to conclude with a Gorgeous Display of Fireworks, by
Messrs. Southby, intr,ducing, amongst various novelties, the most
admired feux d'artifice of former seasons, jets d'esu, water rockets,
revolving
pieces, a magnificent Transparency fifty feet in height,
Painted by I.2essrs. Danson, representing Buonaparte on horseback
cheering on his Troops, surrounded by warlike eb'ems, Insignia of
honour, flags, trophies, Ice.,
amidst a cerruscation of various coloured
fires.

The complicated and difficult machinery, and the erection of the
picture under the direction of Mr. Thos Lowe. The eTtensive gas
fittings by Messrs. lioteherby and Dixon, 23, King-street, CoTent-
gardva. • •
. . .

Ada4tviOn,