The Sun.
London, England, 1844-01-22 00:00:00

SIXTH DAY-BY EXPRESS.

SATURDAY, JAN. 20.
The Judges sat at ten o'clock precisely, at which hour the
traversers were in attendance.

The jury having been called over, the evidence for the
Crown was resumed.

The first witness called was Mr. John Jackson, the Irish
correspondent of the Morning Heald. who, having been sworn,
was examined by Mr. BREWsTER, Q. C., and deposed as fol-
lows :—I am connected with the press—with the London
Morning Herald. I am the Irish correspondent of that paper,
and was so in the course of last summer and last autumn. I
attended at the meetings of the Repeal Association. I was in
the habit of transmitting regularly to London by the post re-
ports of what took place at those meetings.
Mr. BREWSTER—My Lords, I wish to apprise you that it
is not my intention to make this gentleman go over all the
speeches which the Court has already heard. I will confine
myself almost exclusively to asking him who took part at the
meetings. Take these documents in your hand, Mr. Jackson,
and see whether they are the original notes which you sent to
London ?—Yes, they are.
is this paper which I now hand you your report of the meet-
ing that was held on the 30th of May last ?—lt is.
I wish you to look to page 3of that report.—l ire it.
Do you see in these notes a report of a speech made upon
that occasion by Mr. O'Connell ?—Yes, 1 do.
Read the first few. lines.—The witness proceeded to lead
I the report. which commenced by noticing the fact of Mr.
O'Connell's having directed the attention of the Association to
an error which appeared in the report of the proceedings of the
Longford Repeal meeting, which had been published in the
Freeman's Journal of the same date. In that report he was
m. de to apply the phrase '! ruffian soldiery" to the army of
Great Britain; but he begged leave to state that he never
used any such expression. '1 he circumstance to which he had
alluded in his Longford speech had reference to the pathetic
ballad of " Aileen Aroon.' He (Mr. O'C. ) then proceeded in
his customary strain to —(Laughter.)
Mr. BREWSTE R—That will do. _ _ _

Mr. Banwsrea.—Look at your notes of the meeting of the
18th of July.
Alr. O'CONNELL—It would be well if the officer of the'Court
marked these notes. Let them be handed in for the purpose.
Mr. BREWSTER—Look to page 1 of that date; do you see the
names of any of the traversers entered there as being present?
—I see the names of Mr. John O'Connell and Mr. Daniel
O'Connell ; I see the name of Mr. Barrett in page 4.
At this period of the proceedings there was some little noise
at the table caused by the uovernment Reporter speaking across
the table to Mr. Brewster.
The CHIEF JUSTICE pointed down to where Mr. Edwards
was sitting, and said the disturbance came from that place.
Mr. O'CONNELL, who was sitting next to Mr. Edwards, got
up and denied that it came from him.
Mr. Frractimost said that many persons came there from cu-
liosity, and if they could not hold their tongues they ought to
remain at home.
Air. BREWSTER—Look to page 12; do you find that Mr.
Ray did anything at that meeting ?—Yes, he handed in several
sums of money ; I find in page 13 that Dr. Gray gave in con-
tributions.
Mr. BeewsTea—Look to page 3, read the contents, and read
- '
slowly, if you can.
A juror—Hold up yourhead, sir, and raise your voice.
The witness then proceeded to read an extract from a speech
of Mr. O'Connell's. in which he rulogisea! Mr. Murtage, and
promised to attend the meeting at Baltinglass on the 6th of
August, which was his oxn birth-day. He then read a letter
fry m the Right Rev. fir. Cohen. Roman• Catholic Bishop of
Clonfert, enclosing his subscription to the Association. On the
same day Mr. Barrett handed in money from a Protestant gen-
tleman of the. North of Ireland.
The witness then read another extract from a speech of
Mr. O'Connell's at the same meeting. It that speech Mr.
O'Connell alluded to the . necessity If atterding to the muni-
cipal elections, and said that the Tories hac refused to pay the
borough rate. He also said that Lord Bioughani had been
inquiring how the money received at the ,lssociation was dis-
posed of ; but if Lord Brougham chose to s bscribe his pound
he would be enlightened on that point—that is, if they would
receive the subscription of such a man. They had invested
6,000/. in the funds already, they intendsd to invest 4,0001
more, and 1,0001. had been advanced for the building of the
Conciliation Hall.
Mr. BREWSTER—Look to page 12; do you see an entry of
any money handed in by Mr. Ray ?--Yes, Mr. Ray handed
in subscriptions fri,m different parts of England and Scotland
(the witness enumerated them). Dr. Gray handed in money
en the same day, and stated that the Marqnis of Downshire had.
interfered to prevent his tenantry becoming Renealers.
Mr. I3REWSTER—Look to your notes•of the meeting on the
25th of July, page have them before me. The secretary
Landed in wormy on, that day. In page 6, I see that Mr.•
O'Connell handed .in money on the same day. In page 8, I
find that Mr. Duffy. of the A'ation, handed in his subscription.
In page 9, 1 find that Mr. Steele and Mr. John O'Connell
handed in money.
Mr. BaewsTge—Look to page 6, and read the statement
of Mr. O'Connell with regard to the finance details ?—illr.
O'Connell stated that the amount received from the 4th of
July, 1842, to the corresPending quarter its 1843. was 15,000/.
Alr. BREWSTER— We will now go to the 14th day of August,
as set out in the indictmeht. Look at page 2 of your menu-
script —,Yl.° appeseed to hive been at that meeting of the As-
sociation?-111r. Ray,. Dr. Gray, and Mr. O'Connell.
Go to page 4, and tell me who were present at that meet-
ing ? --- Mr. Steele was present.
Go to page 12 ?—I don't see any names there.
Look again?—Oh, yes, I see there the name of Mr. Duffy,
of the Nation.
Mr. ‘tl lIITESIDE—We do not find any mention of the 14th
of August in our copy of the indictment.
Mr. ISREWSTER—It is a misprint.
Mr. WHITESIDE—My Lord, be good enough to strike out
that evidence against Mr. Duffy.
Mr. BitewsTen—Just alter the date, my Lord, because Mr:
Duffy's name comes in the next meeting.
Go to page 22 of August 3, and say who were present at
that meeting?-11r. Duffy, Mr. O'Connell, alr. Steele.
Go to page 5, and say whose name do you find there?—Mr.
John O'Connell's.
Go back to page 3, and tell me did Mr. O'Connell do or say
any hing that day?—lt states that Mr. O'Connell arrived
seortly after two o'clock, accoe panted by Mr. Steele. He read
several inters, enclosing contributions from repeal wardens,
Roman Catholic clergymen, and others.
Go to page 7, and tell me what do you find there?—Mr.
O'Connell ream a letter from Philadelphia, containing remit-
tances and resolutions'read at the Association of the friends of
Ireland anti Repeal, and he move(' that the letter from Judge
Duran be inserted upon the minutes.
Go to page 9. Did he read any document of the Association
that day ? Yes, he read his plan for the renewed action of the
Irish Parliament; 1 got a copy of it at the Association.
The deputy-clerk then read the plan for the renewed action
of the Irish Parliament. He continued to read the manner in
which members were to be given to the various cities and towns,
and considered the basis of representation should be the amount
of population. This was taken from the census of 1831, which
was prepared for a different purpose, and without reference to
the report of the Union. Household suffrage, after' a certain
period of occupancy. to give the right of voting, and votes to be
taken by ballot.
Turn to page 11 of that day? Finds no notes referring to
arbitrators at that page.
Look at the last four lines ?—I see it there ; the meeting
then adjourned to the next day, when they were to report on
the mode of appointing arbitrators and the abolition of the
Catholic oath.
Judge CRAMPTON—Abolition of what? Witness—The
Catholic oath; looks to page 4; finds Mr. Barrett's name
and Sir. Daniel O'Connell ; at page 5 Mr. John O'Con-
nell ; at page 8 Dr. Gray ; reads page 4 ; Mr. O'Con-
nell handed in several sums of money from various parts of
America, andread letters from New York and Utica accompa-
nying the respect:ye sums, which he moved might be inserted
on thesninutes. Witness was proceeding to read" there were
high sounding --."
Mr. FITZDIBBort, Q. C.—ls this your comment on the pro-
ceedings ?—Yes--( Laughter.)
Mr. WHITESIDE desired him not to trouble them with refer-
ring to anything of his own.
Witness proceeded—Mr. O'Connell said it was prudent to
advise with the proprietors of the several newspapers as to the
propriety of printing supplements, that all the letters should be
published. At page 8 reads the speech of Ur. Gray, of the
Freeman's Journal, proposing the adoption of the report fur-
nished by the Committee as to the mode of selecting and
carrying into operation the appointment of arbitrators through-
out Ireland. Got a document that day at the Association.
Has it in Court. Hands it to officer to read. The Clerk of
the Crown was then proceeding to read from manuscript on
very slight paper.
Judge CRAXPTON—Perhaps you have it in print; it is
easier to read.
Mr. BREWSTER—We have it printed.
The officer then read the Report of the Sub-Committee,
August, 1843, on the system and appointment of arbitrators
,31
in
nn
es. B
Ireland,
snWreeEdri teb—Look to the meeting of the 28th of August,
by
Dr. Gray, Aur. 21, 1843.
Mr
jai
ds e ns
e?
fA 1
Sr. r Steele,. a
a y d Sir.a n Johnyti n
anything?—He
oH
id
nett,
a M
i‘ e
Dlr.
. t Ray, n
J. O'Connell
yr
in'air. O'Connell, and Dr. Gray.
Lmoo Cincinnati,
to
page 7,
7 enclosing ,
eiing a bill on Mr. Rothschild for 12.
Did read a letter ?---Yes ; he read a letter
from el
Did Mr. O'Connell say anything at that meeting ?—Yes.
nosing 1131.
The witness then read some observations made by Mr.
O'Connell with respect to the order on Rothschild, the Arbi-
tration Courts, and a letter received from Mr. Barry, of Mallow.
Look to the meeting of the 29th of August, at pages 3 and 5,
and say who were present at it ?-111r. O'Connell, Mr. Ray,
and Mr. J. O'Connell.
Read the observations of Mr. O'Connell at that meeting.
The witness commenced to read an abstract of the speech
read by Mr. Ross yesterday, when
Air. Justice CRAMPTON asked whether it was necessary to
read the speech over again ?
Mr. BREWSTER. said that he only wanted to have the last
page read ; but the other side might require to have the
entire read.
The witness then read some observations made by Mr.
O'Connell, to the effect that Ireland had many grievances to
complain of. She was accused of being discontented, and she
was so. It was said she was disaffected ; but he flung back
the accusation by saying it was as false as hell. She was not
disaffected, but discontented. There should be no outbreak in
natural or unadvisable result.
his life-time ; but when he was dead it would not be an un-
The expression " unadvisable result" seemed to come with
surprise upon counsel for the Crown, the Solieitor-General, and
Mr. Brewster again asking him what result ? To which the
witness still replied, " an unadvisable result."
Mr. O'CONIVELL--I never said anything of the kind. (In
the report read by Air. Ross yesterday, the words were, we be-
lieve, " unavoidable result.")
Mr. flaewstraa—Can you say how any of those observations
were received?—No.
Look to page 1 of the report of the meeting of the 4th of
September, and which of the traversers were there ?—Mr.
Ray,G Mr. Steele, and John O'Connell.
to page 7, and see if Sir. O'Connell did anything ?—He
handed in sums of money from Roscommon, Circular Bar, Bel-
fast, Adelaide. New York, Boston, and other places.
Did Mr. Ray make any observations?—He recommended
the " Spirit of the Nation" to be circulated amongst the peo-
ple, instead of the trash they were in the habit of reading.
As the witness read the passage very indistinctly, he was
ordered to read it over again.
Now go to page 16, anti see if Mr. O'Connell said anything
about another-meeting. to be head?—Mr. O'Connell said that
there would be a meeting in Loughrea, where three or four
hundred thousand people would be gathered together, and
where there would be no breach of the peace if the sub-in-
spector of police would only allow him to have 200 men, hardy
Repeaters, to act as policemen, under the ~,command of the
sub-inspector.
Now go to- the -10th of Setember, and look at page .1.
Which of the traversers were present?—Mr. O'Connell, Mr.
Barrett, and Mr. Steele..
Go to page 10, for the meeting of the 12th of September,
and say if Sir. Barrett did anything ?--He handed in a sub-
scription of 214
Did Mr. O'Connell do anything after that ?—He addressed
the meeting, and handed in 500/. from America. He also
pointed out that the Orangemen were trying to give the Re-
peal movement a religious character, but that it would fail, as
their object was to benefit Irishmen of all classes.
Now go to the meeting of the 13th of September, and say
who appeared at that meeting?—Mr., O'Connell, Mr. Steele,
and Mr. Ray:
What did Mr. O'Connell first do.?—He read a letter from
Washington, United States, and described it as a decument
characterised by good sense, practical information, and con-
taining expressions of sympathy to Ireland.
What did Mr. Ray do ?-1-le read a communication on the
subject of the enumerators appointed to take the numbers of
the constituency.
Mr. Brewster then handed in a manifold copy of the address
to all British subjects, which Mr. O'Connell, at this meeting,
said should be circulated through the three kingdoms, and
placarded on the walls of Liverpool, London, and Bristol. As
this document was read yesterday, he did not occupy the time
of the Court with it, but simply put it in. He continued the
examination of the witness by telling him to go to page 1 of
the notes of. the meeting of the 21st"Septemher' and to state
which of the traversers were present.—Mr. Ray, Mr. J.
O'Connell, and Mr. Duffy.
Did Mr. Duffy do anything ?—He handed in subscriptions.
Look at the meeting of the 27th of September, and tell me
who you find were at that meeting ?—Mr. O'Connell and Mr.
J. O'Connell.
Witness, in answer to another question, was reading part-of
a speech of Mr. O'Connellt,• but was stopped by Mr. Brewster,
• who• said that he did not want to hear what Mr. O'Connell
said. He only wanted to prove that he was present at the
meeting.
Was any other person there?—Dr. Gray.
Mr. BREWSTER—The subject matter of this meeting was
fully stated yesterday ; he should not, therefore, occupy the
time of the Court with going over it again. He only wanted to
prove the presence of the traversers.
Mr. WHITESIDE—But you are not to assume that this man
saw them?
Mr. BREWSTER--I am not assuming anything. Look at
page 2 and say who was at the meeting of the 28th? Mr. J.
O'Connell and Mr. Ray.
Did Mr. O'Connell state at that meeting anything relating to
another meeting ?—lie made some observations in reference to
a meeting at Mullaghmast. •
Witness was reading the observations, when
Mr. Aloorte said the coarse Mr. Brewster had to pursue Was
to corroborate the evidence of Sir. Ross; he ought, therefore

Go to page 6 now and read from that ; I believe you have
not seen those manuscripts since you sent them to London ?—I
only got them from Mr. Kemmis to initial.
'lake that document, and refer to the meeting of June 6 at
the Association. I should observe, my Lords, that this gen-
tleman's evidence applies only to the meetings of the Associa-
tion at the Corn Exchange, and nothing else.
Look to page 1, and see which of the traversers were at that
meeting ?—Daniel O'Connell.
Look to page 6, and see if there were any others of them
there 2—Yes, the Member for Kilkenny, Mr. John O'Connell,
Mr. Barrett, of the Pilot, and Sir. Steele.
Go back to page 6, and read a portion of Mr. O'Connell's
speech. Witness, reading, " He (11r. O'Connell) passed
yesterday amid the scenes of Saxon cruelty, and the sanguinary
Cromwellian, cold-blooded butcheries, commencing with the
murder of Sir Charles Astley." (Mr. O'Connell correcting the
witness, " Askell"), Sir Charles Askell, and ending with the
little drum boy.
Now turn to where he announces the meetings he has fixed
to come off, and read.—" I will be at Kilkenny on the Bth of
June ; at Mallow on the 11th ; at Murroe or Abingdon on the
13th ; at Ennis on the 15th ; at Athlone on the 18th ; at En-
niskillen on the 21st."—(Mr. O'Connell, " Oh, oh," and
laughter.) The witness again corrected himself Ennistymon ;
at Galway on the 25th ; at Dundalk on the 29th.
Did Mr. Steele make a speech at. the meeting ?—Yes • Mr.
Steele came forward amidst great cheering, and said that he
had received a letter, stating that the Glasgow Repealers were
to hold a banquet en the 29th; and Mr. O'Connell handed in
a sovereign from an Englishman. who blushed for the treat-
ment by. his countrymen of the noblest race in the world.
Mr. Ilavrc HELL, asked if this meeting was set forth in the
bill of particulars?
Mr. BREWSTER said all the meetings were set forth in it,
but he would now turn to that of the 4th of July.
Mr. FORD made an observation, which was inaudible in the
gallery.
Mr. BREWSTER should not tell the jury that, because, there
was no such meeting. It was struck out. (Handing witness
another document), Look .to page 1, and tell me which of the
traversers you find attending that meeting ?—Mr. Daniel and
Mr. John O'Connell, Mr. Steele, and Mr. Ray.
Go to page 7. and say if there was any money received there
from America ?—Yes, several sums were handed in from Ame-
rica. . Mr. Duffy and Mr. John O'Connell were present at the
meeting which took place on the sth of July. I see page lof
my notes of that meeting ; Mr. O'Connell said he wished to
call the attention of the meeting to two points; he had re-
ceived a letter from a person in Sligo which inclosed another
letter from a discharged soldier, who stated that he was em•
ployed by O'Connell to drill the peasantry. He (Mr. O'Con-
nell) then called .the attention of the meeting to the Ribbon
conspiracy which existed in the north, and said it wa: originated
by the Chartists in Scotland. He ( Mr. O'Connell) spoke
about Lord Cloncarthy who attempted to prevent his tenantry

from going to a Repeal meeting. •
Was Mr. Ray, the secretary at that meeting ?—I don't re-
member that. The witness proceeded to read an abstract of
Mr. O'Connell's speech in which he alluded to the Marquis of
Downshire, who endeavoured to prevent his tenants from going
to a Repeal meeting or joining the Repeal Association. He
(Mr. O'Connell) also read a letter from America on that oc-
casion. I see page 4 of my notes where Mr. O'Connell
moved that the letter be inserted on the minutes, and that the
thanks of the Association be conveyed to the writers. He
(Mr. O'Connell) said there were allusions in the letter
which came well from America, as the tone of it was re-
sponsive to liberty. The witness continued to read a por-
tion of the speech made by Mr.- O'Connell. He (Mr.
O'Connell) concluded by moving " that the thanks of the
meeting be sent to the subscribers in America." The mo-
tion was seconded by Mr.. Steele, and passed unanimously.
I see page 10 of my notes, and observe a portion of Air.
O'Connell's speech ; the notes are not in short-hand ; Mr.
John O'Connell read a letter on that day from Wilmington,
Delaware, which letter contained subscriptions; a vote of
thanks was passed to the subscribers. The witness went on to
read portions of Mr. O'Connell's speech. Mr. O'Connell
said the people ought to avoid the example of 1798, and any-
thing like it, as it was by such means the Union was carried.
He did not forget the language used by Members of the Ca-
binet; Wellington, in the House of Lords, and Sir Robert Peel
in the House of Couirans, had the audacity to speak of civil
war, but that would the march of Repeal. When they
spoke of civil war, let them look beyond the Atlantic ; and if
the people were attacked they had the consolation to feel they
would not stand alone, but the people of Ireland looked to him,
and under his advice they would never commence, but wait till
they were attacked.

The CHIEF JUSTICE thou/ht MT. Moore had misunderstood
Mr. Brewster. What he had stated had not been done; the
witness was stopped in his reading by Mr. Brewster.
Mr. NlooKE—ln one instance the witness began in the
middle of a speech.
Mr. BREWSTER—It was the middle of apage, not the middle
of a speech. The passage was the reference made to the dis-
tribution of " the Spirit of the Nation" by Mr. Bay.
Mr. MooftE—On this occasion Mr. 'Connell appears to
have made several speeches, and when he called for any of
them to be read, he called for the whole. In this particular
case malting had been heard of the speech beyond the announce-
ment of the speech at Multaglimast.
'the CHIEF JUSTICE —You have misunderstood Mr, Brew-
ster, Mr. Mrio.e
Mr. WHITESIDE said if they had half the sentence read
they must ha, e the whole.
The CHIEF JUSTICE—I shall not consider a single sentence
of that ape. cli as having been read. It was not wanted, arid the
reading it was merely a mistake. lie w. uld agree that it would
be quite unfair for the Crown to give a garbled extract from a
speech, and n t give it entire.
Mr WHITESIDE—What your Lordship has said is quite
enough. Mr. Brewster asked a question about a speech ot Sir.
O'Connell ; if he asked more than that, and wished to have any
of it read, he must read the whole.
Was there anybody else present at the meeting of the 28th
of Sept. ? Look at the last page and tell me.—Mr. Steele was
there also.
Mr. BREWSTER (to the Clerk of the Crown)—Hand me the
witness's notes of the 3d of Oct.
The Clerk of the Crown handed over the document.
Mr. BREWSTER (to witness)—Look to page —, and try
do you find there any other of the traversers?—Yes, Mr.
O'Connell.
Look at page 4?—Mr. Steele.
Look at page s?—Mr. Duffy, of the Nation.
Look to page 6 ?—Mr. lt,y and Mr. J. O'Connell.
Link to page 7?-1).. Gray anti the Rev. air. Tierney.
Mr. IlitEwsTEß—Then it appears that all the traversers
were present except Mr. Barrett My Lords, as Mr. Hughes
has already read out his entire report of the p oceedings of that
meeting, I do not think it necessary to trouble the Court by a
further reterence to the witness's report of Mr. O'Connell's
speech.
Mr. FerzGrenost begged leave most emphatically to protest
against the Lear, ed Counsel indulging in any such remarks as
ttio•e which had now fallen trom hint. It Mr. Brewster in-
tended not to ask his witness any further question, he might
rest satisfied with his own determination to that effect, without
troubling their Lordshi, s with what he did not purpose doing.
Such a course was wiloily unnecessary.
CHIEF JUSTICE—But, Mr. Fi zgibbon, the Court has a
right to receive for their own satisfaction if they think fit, such
information as nas been offered by Mr. Brewster.
Mr. FITZGIBBON—NIy Lords, I most respectfully maintain
that Air. Brewster has no right whatever to state to the Court,
in the hearing of the jury, the reasons which have induced him
to adopt su h or such a course.
Mr. MOORS, Q. C.—Besides, such a proceeding leads to the
inferedce that the present witness may he in a position to cor-
roborate Mr. Hughes's notes, whereas there is no direct evi-
dr rice whatever to prove anything of the kind.
Mr. linnwsTE it-1 only wanted to avoid the imputation of
leading the witness. To witni se—At the .everal meetings in
respect of which you have given evidence, did a great number
of persons attend in the room ?—Sometimes more, and some-
Wawa less. —( Laughter. )
Were they generally well attended ?—Yes, the meetings
were usuady well attended.
At any of the meetings, in respect of which I have been ex-
amining you, are you able to call to mind whether you heard
any of the traversers say anything about newspapers?
Judge PEKItIN—To which of the meetings do you allude?
Mr. BREWSTER—My question has reference to any of the
meetings in allusion to which he has given evidence.
Mr. FITZGIBBoN objected to the generality of the question.
Judge Peautt4—The witness you know, Mr. Fitzgibbon,
must specify a date, otherwise his evidence is oflittle value.
Mr. BREWSTER—I merely wanted not to lead the witness.
Witness-1 have nothing on my notes in yeference to news-
papers beyond what I have already read from my reports.
Mr. BREWSTER—I meant something additional, my Lords.
I have done with the witness.
Cross-examined by Mr. FITZGIBBON—May I take the liberty
of asking you, Sir, what countryman you are ?—I am a Clare
man.
You are an Irishman at all events ?—Yes, I am.
How long have you been a reporter ?—I have been for two
years in the capacity of Irish correspondent to the Morning
Herald.
I did not ask you, Mr. Jackson, how long you had been a
correspondent. That was not my question, what I asked you
was how long you had been a reporter?—l can't say lam
a reporter, that is to say, I am not a shorthand writer.
I did not ask you were you a shorthand writer, I asked
you how long you had been a reporter; do you mean to say
you are not, and never were a reporter ?..--I am not a reporter,
and never was in that sense of the word.
In what sense of the word 2-1 mean in the sense of a short-
hand writer, for the term, "reporter " is usually applied to a
shorthand writer.
Then, by a " reporter" you mean a shorthand writer, or
stenographer?—Yes, I do.
Were you ever in the habit of reporting proceedings of
meetings or courts for the purpose of such reports being pub-
lished in the newspapers ?—Yes, after a manner.—( Laughter. )
Then you were, in point of fact, a reporter ot public pro-
ceedings with a view to having them published in the news-
papers ?—Yes.
That is just what I mean. When did you begin to practice
in that capacity ?—Three or four years ago.
W ith what newspaper did you begin ?—I had been in the
habit of contributing to provincial papers before I was con-
nected with the Herald.
By reports I do not mean contributions; but to what pro-
vincial papers used you to send your reports ?—Principally to the
Limerick Star and the Limerick Chronicle.
W hat were the politics of the Limerick Star?—lt was a
Liberal paper.
And so, too, is the Limerick Chronicle?—No, it is not; it
is Conservative.
Did you send reports to both of these journals at the same
time ?—No, I did not ; I used to send reports from my own
place, and not from Limerick.
And of all this wide creation, Mr. Jackson, pray what place
belongs to you ?—(Laughter. )—Kilrush.
That is your place?—Yes, it is ray native place ; my con-
tributions had no reference to politics.
I did not ask you anything about politics, Sir; your reports
had reference to public proceedings, had they not—had they
not reference to matters ot public interest ?—They were princi-
pally sketches of the petty sessions of Kilrush.
Illustrated sketches ? —A little embellished occasionally.
By being " a little embellished " do you mean to convey that
there were pictures in them for the purpose of embellishment ?
—No ; they were pen and ink embellishments.
Then, I suppose, that by embellishments you mean some-
thing in the report which, in point of fact, did not occur ?
Decidedly.
Something, in fact, that was not true ?—Yes.
I may go the length of saying I suppose, that half of them
were fictions?—There were many fictions in my sketches.
And that, I suppose, is what you call reporting after a man-
ner ?—Yes, precisely so.—( Laughter.)
Then you commenced your career as a reporter by vending
falsehoods ?—No, not exactly that ; I wrote on the same prin-
ciple, and in the same style, as a reporter to a magazine.
Have you contributed to magazines?-1 have done so a little.
And your magazine articles are embellished after the same
fashion ?—.NI y magazine articles were tales of imagination.
Are you a bit of a poet ?—lndeed a very large bit of a poet
(the witness was remarkably tall).
Are you what is called in the county Clare a poetasther ?
( Laughter. )—Ytat may, if you like, apply that appellation to
me, for I do not mean to say I am a poet.
Have you contributed art:cles in verse to any publication?—
Yes, I have.
Did you ever contribute to the Nation?—Never.
To what papers were you in the habit of sending verses ?
To the Limerick papers I have named.
And your poetry, I am to suppose, bore some conformity to
the principles of the paper to which you sent it ?—ln nine
cases out of ten such was not the fact.
But you admit that in the tenth case it might, perhaps, be
the fact?—lt might, perhaps.
Were the reports you sent to the newspapers similar to your
contributions to the magazines?—No, they were not.
To what magazines do you contribute ?—There was a sketch
of mine some time since in the University Magazine. It was
a tale of fiction.
Yes, but was it not intended to pass for true ?—Yes, with
those who would be fools enough to believe it true.—(Loud
laughter )
Was it not intended by those reports to convey an accurate
account of what passed at the Kilrush Petty Sessions ?—Some
of what was published did occur there.
You intended they should all appear in the newspapers as
true ?—Yes.
And yet they were not true ?—Some of them were.
When did you cease reporting at Kilrush?—This month two
years I came up here.
How did you propose to live in Dublin ?—I got a letter from
the proprietors of the Morning Herald, asking me to come up
here as their Irish correspondent.
Who was it at (Kilrush that introduced you to the notice of
the proprietor of the Morning Herald ?—I met a relation of
the proprietor of the Limerick Star in Kilrush, Mr. Griffin ;
he asked me if I was not the author of those sketches in the
newspapers of the Kilrush Petty Sessions, and 1 said I was,
and then he said that the proprietor of the Morning Herald
expressed a wish that I should send some of them to that paper,
which I did, and then I came to Dublin to be their correspon-
dent.
Dublin is a place where a man must have a little income to
make nimself smooth. Pray, how do you support yourself here ?
--I have 150 guineas a year from the Morning .Herald as their
correspondent.
A fixed salary ?—Yes.
What were you to do for that?—To send a letter every day,
having reference to the leading topics of political interest, and
whatever the local papers adverted to.
That is, you were daily to read the morning papers in
Dublin, and to make a summary of that which you thought
would be agreeable to the Morning Herald editor ?—Yes.
Had you the privilege of embellishing those before you sent
them up ?-1 had.
And of course you exercised it?—No, I did not, beyond the
truth.
There was no truth in those petty sessions' sketches you sent?
—Only in some of them.
Well, I now speak of those from Dublin ?—They were always
true, to the best of my ability. 1 gave the news of the day as
I found it.
That is, you gave whatever you found in the morning
papers, whether 'twas true or not ?—I gave what 1 thought
was probable; if I saw any absurd statement, I would be slow
in adopting it until I ascertained by inquiry whether it was true
or not.
Tell me now, by way of sample, what mode you took of as-
certaining the truth or falsehood of any one of those state-
ments ?—Genei al inquiry.
From anybody you happened to meet ?—Wherever they
were the subject of conversation, I endeavoured to find out
whether they were true or false.
Can you describe how you proceeded on any one occasion 2
I don't understand you.
You don't ?—I cannot charge my memory as to any particu-
lar occasion. If you were to ask the editor or correspondent to
vouch for the accuracy of every thing lie writes, you would find
it very,hard to get him to do it.—( Laughter.)
Would you be good enough to take up the first of those papers
produced, that of the 30th of May. Did I understand you to
say this was the note you took for the Morning Herald?—
That was my daily letter.
Mr. BnEwsxga—The note you took. Sure it's a letter.

to read everything of which the witness had taken notes, and Mr. FITZGIBBON (turning to Mr, Brewster)—l beg of you Mr. FITZGIBBON—Can you tell from which you copied them?
not such extracts only as were deemed material. not to assume that I don't understand what I'm examining the —I cannot tell which.
Mr. lifiewsmt said in some instances he had certainlyealled witness about, and it is not upon this occasion alone, but for the A Juror—Mr. Jackson, did you not swear, a while ago, that
on the witness to read the speeches; in a majority of cases thee future. lam pretty nearly a Clare man myself, and I can un- all you wrote was done during the time of the meetings in the
speeches had been already read by Mr. Boss, but where he derstand the Clare brogue well enough. , Exchange, and no place else ?—The majority of them were
thought it desirable he had called on this witness to read them To the witness—Now, mind, I don't ask you about the sub- written there.
a second time. In some instances this was not at all necessary. stance of what is written in those scraps of paper, but I ask Juror—Oh, but you certainly swore they were all. written
All he wanted to prove at present was whether Mr. O'Connell you are those the identical scraps of paper you forwarded to the there, and nowhere else.
announced the meeting at Mellaghtnast. Morning H , Herald?—The very identical papers. CHIEF JUSTICE—Let Mr. Fitzgibbon close his examine-
Mr. MooKE—lf the witness came forward to give evidence Now show them to me. ( Witness handed them to the tion of the witness, and then, gentlemen, you can examine him.
as to any of the traversers being at the meeting, he submit ed Coun-el ; the manuscript was written on both sides of ?he Mr. Ferzcinew-l— I will repeat tie question re the juror,
that he ought to give an account of all that was dune. He would sheet.) Did you send these identical papers tor the pur- and ask did you not swear awhile ago the' you wrote a.,1 those
not go the length of saying that a reporter ought not to give pthe of being set up in the office of the Morning Herald?— slip: at the meeting. and if. no other place? --To the best of
evidence as to what Mr. A or Mr. B. said, or what every indivi- I did. my recollect on the majo ity Of them were written there.
dual said; but it Mr. O'Connell ...e any of the uther traversers I suppose yoe know enough of reporting to know that it is We. e all of them written there ?—Not alt, perhaps ;s me
made speeches on that occasion, he had no right to mke ex_ necessary in sending manuscript to a printing-office that it of them were written after the meeting was over, some of them
tracts fum those speeches, or read only those portions which should be written only on or.e side?—Yes. were written next day.
he thought material. That is a part of the instructions of every reporter ? Did you do any of them from the newsnee-
. . . _ .

?—Som

it is.
So that it may be set up at once. without being copied ?—Yes.
Was the paper you sent as it is now, in set aps of this kind ?
—No, they were in lull length slips.
After having sent these slips to the Morning Herald, when
did you see them ag r.n ?—I received a letter from the proprie-
tor about two months ago.
Don't tel us about his letter now. I ask: you; only for a
date?— I never ,aw them until about two months age.
In whose hands did you see them on thot occasion ?—The
Crown solicitor handed me a letter frorn the proprietor.
Now don't tell us about your letters. s,.
Witness—My Loots. in justice to myself—
CHIEF JUSTICE—You're not asked about that now. How
did you come lido communication with Mr. Kemmis?—He
-cut for me and I went to his office.
Was that the first time you were in his office?—lt was the
first time I es er saw him to my knowledge.
Whose initials re those on that palter?—Mine.
When anti where did you write them?—:n Mr. Kemmis's
office, a low days alter 1 was called on by the proprietor to
do so.
lint was you in communication with dir. Kemmis before
tha- ?—No.
Dot you expect, that communication from Mr. Kemmis to at.
tend at his office ? Upon my oath I did not.
When did you begin to attend the Associstion meeting, ?
About eight or nine moot! s ego.
For the first time ? I was off and on there before.
Were you a otepoaler ?—Nto
Did Sou pay a shilling going in at the door ?—I did, the first.
time I went in.
Afterwards you went in free—you went in as a reporter ?
I did.
Were the accounts of the proceedings you sent over from
your own notes ?—some imes they were, and sometimes bor-
rowed from the notes to the man near me, perhaps.
Were they borrowed from the notes of the man near you?
—Very freqiientiy they were ; I copied them from the slips of
the man next tire.
Was that a short-hand writer?—Sometimes he was, and
sometime, not ; I gave the subs ante ot what he had written
out, 01 course. I could not copy shorthand notes, not being a
shorthand writer nsyselt.
Used 3ou ever to vary the language when you copied from
the mattuscript of the man next you ?—I used.
In order that it should riot have the appearance of being a
copy of what he transer.bed ?-I)reci,ely.
And am I to understand that that was done to prevent the
appearance, to your own proprietors, that you had merely
copied what another man had transcribed ? Exactly.
And those are the notes you have been reading here to-day?
—Yes.
Look to those notes you have read, and select out of them any
one piece of paper which you will swear, upon; solemn oath,
contains what was taken down by you from toe lips ot the man
represented in it to have spoke. ?—Upon my solemn oath this
paper (nolding up one of his sheets of manuscript) contoios
the substance of what Mr. O'Connell said.
Will you swear tone were his words?—To the best of my
belief it is the substance ot what he said.- I never attempted
to give his exact words.
Now, attend to me. On your oath, did you write what is
upon that slip of paper while Mr. O'Connell was speaking?—
Yes.
Up ,n your oath, was that written down upon that piece of
paper from the lips of Mr. O'Connell while he was speaking
it?—Ye,, octooionallv taking a note, and catching the leading
topics in his discourse.
I ask you to fix upon any one of the pieces of paper you have
in your hand, that you will positively swear that you
believe was written while the speaker was spsaking ?—To the
best of my recollection this (mean ng one of his slips) was, but I
cannot be positive..
Then you are not positive?—No.
What is the date of that slip ?—The 30th of May.
Then you are not positive as to that ?—Not very.
Are you positive at all that that iece of paper was written
from his lips while he was speaking—lt is in substance what
he said, to the best of my recollection.
Is that an answer ?-1 think it is.
On your oath was it written while he was speaking, and not
from a paper?—l cannot swear that, certainly.
Then you won't swear that itmay have been taken from a
paper ?=A certain portion of itmay or may not.
Might not any person in the Court give me that answer—
that " portions of it may or may not ?" Must it not be either
of the two things ?—I do not recollect any particular case.
Could you fix upon any one of all the slips 2—l could not.
Take up your paper of the sth of July. Was that little
bundle made up in the same way as the others ?—Yes.
Was it written whilst you were in the Association?—lt
Was it written whilst the people were speaking ?—Yes.
Do you swear that?-1 do.
The whole of it?—Yes.
While the meeting was going on, and in the Association-
room ?—Every one that refers to the meeting (of the day was
written in the room.
.And while each particular speaker was speaking?—lt was.
Do you swear that positively—that every one of those slips
were written in the Association, and while each speaker, whose
language they purport to give, was speaking ?—Certainly not.
Did you tell me a moment ago they were ?—I did not.
Did you tell me in any sense they were ?—I said they
were. —( Sensation. )
And you say now they were not?—While the money was
handing in I wrote out what previously occurred.
Will you now turn to the speech put into the mouth of Mr.
O'Connell, on the 15th of July 2—He said he wished to call
attention to two letters he had received that morning from
Sligo. One was written by a discharged soldier, stating "he
was employed by Mr. O'Connell."
Weil now, have you the speech of Mr. O'Connell in moving
the insertion in the American book of a letter received from
A merica ?—I have. Mr. O'Connell moved that the letter be
inserted in the American book, and not on the regular minutes,
arid that thanks be conveyed to the two office-bearers named
in the letter, as subscribed to their fund.
Do you swear that sentence was written by yourself, when
the speaker was speaking ?—To the best of my opinion it was.
Was it not?—l can't be certain.
Now, listen to me while I read from this paper (Freeman's
Journal) a report of the same speech you have been reading to
us—" Mr. O'Connell said it was better to take up each of the
American letters by itself, and therefore moved that the letter
should be inserted in the American book, but not on the regu-
lar minutes of the association, and that the thanks of the associa.
tion be conveyed through the two office-bearers that were named
in the letter to the subscribers to that fund." Now, is not that
verbatim with what you have read from your slips.
Mr. BREWSTER—I beg your pardon, and 1 will take the
opinion of the Court whether I am right or not. I have no
objection if Mr. Fitzgibbon puts this newspaper in evidence, but
I object to his reading any quantity out of a newspaper he
pleases, and then asking the witness—Does that correspond
with something he has in his hands?
Mr. ForzoISBON—I am not at present asking Mr. Brewster
to look at what lam doing at all.—( Laughter.) lam at pre-
sent testing the credit of this witness ; and I contend for my
right to show the jury that by any human means I can:.ot,
without having that paper before my eyes, repeat one word or
syllable that is in that paper.
'Mr. BREWSTER—It is not to the newspaper I object, but
to the mode of examination adopted by Mr. Fitzgibbon. I
object to the mode of his examination, because he reads from a
newspaper the exact words of the witness's notes which he
sent over in his correspondence.
Mr. FITZGIBBON—I don't read from the paper at all. I'll
read from my brief now, I tell you.—( Laughter.)
Mr. BREwSTER—If you offer the newspaper ix evidence I
will not object to it, and then you may examine him as to it.
Sir. FITZGIBBON—Here is my brief; will you have it in
evidence ?—( Great laughter.)
Mr. BREWSTER—It is not competent for you to read from
your brief or any other document, and then ask the witness if
what. is read agrees with notes he has taken. I say it is not
competent to do so unless you put the document in evidence.
Mr. FITZGIBBON—I will take up this paper, and see if I
don't read a report of every word the witness says he sent to
the paper.
Sir. BREWSTER—But that is what I object to.
Judge BURTON—Why go on to prove what you have such a
perfect transcript of ?
Mr. FITZGIBUON—The course I am taking is infinitely more
fair to the witness than the course alluded to on the other side;
it is the only fair and legal course which I am at present adopt-
ing ; if 1 did not take this course, I would be stopped from
reading the document, if I did not examine the witness, as to
the fact, before he left the table. In the paper of the next
morning, Ifind a verbatim report of what the witness says he sent
to London, and if I did not ask him about that I would have
been stopped from readil°y,- it, unless I asked the man about it when
I had hint on the table. Here is a man who comes on the table
to tell the jury that he is a reporter for a newspaper, and as such
attended the meetings of the Association, where Mr. O'Connell
spoke. I wilt show he is not a reporter, and that he was incapaOle
of taking reports where he says lie did, and that what he asserts is
false. IIA ant to show what he says is absolutely, and morally
false, and a fabrication from beginning to end, and that he is
now speaking to the jury what is false, when he tells them that
the documents which he holds in hi. hand were written by him
at the meetings. fle comes here falsely representing to the
jury that fact. He did not take a note at those meetings, nor
had he the ability of taking notes, and, therefore, I want to
show that what he did do was copied verbatim from the
morning papers of the next day, and sent off by him, al-
though he tells the jury he wrote the pieces of paper at the
meetings.
Judge BURTON—I see your object is very clear.
Judge Citaatroots—Mr. Fitzgibbon, am I to understand
that you intend to give the paper in evidence ?
air. FITZGIBBON—NO, I do not.
Judge Cita sirroo—Then I feel great difficulty in that case
in allowing this sort of examination.
Mr. lir-tows-rim—lf he puts in the newspaper as evidence I
will withdraw my objection, but unless he does so I must press
it. Mr. Fitzgibbon may tell me he will not read from the
paper but from his brief, and I object to that also, for how am
I to know but that brief might be a copy of what this gentle-
man sent to the Morning herald.—(Laughter.) Let him put
in the newspaper as evidence, and I will withdraw the ob-
jection.
Mr. FITZGIBBON—I am here at present to —, but no, I
will get it in another form. Come, Sir, turn round and
answer me ?--Yes, I will, Sir. Fitzgibbon.
Will you now, Sir, take on yourself to swear, on your solemn
oath, that you did not copy these slips of paper from the
morning paper of the next day, and then send them off as
your own report?—To the best of my recollection—l cannot
say. I might have copied them either from the paper, or a
netetaker's slips.
Hah ! hah 1 'Fake that down. I will repeat the question,
Sir, (question repeated)?-1 might have copied them either
from the paper, or another notetaker's slips.
Well, did you do that while J. O'Connell was speaking ?
I can't say that.
One way or other?—No one way or other.
Did you do that on the same day of the meetings or the
day after ?—I can't be positive as to that.
Not positive ?—No, not positive.
Did you see the report in the morning papers of the next
day ?—I might have seen it.
Then, you might have copied your report from the papers
—Some of it I might have copied.
You might have copied it all ; eh ?—lt is possible.
Did you ever copy from the morning papers at all?—Yes, I
used to copy some, and cut out more from it. I sent the slips
which I cut from the papers over whenever I adapted them.
And you sent them to London?-1 did, possibly.
On your solemn oath will you venture to swear you did not
take all these papers from the newspapers, or from another note-
taker's slips?
Judge Psalmist—Come, Sir, speak up, and let us hear you,
as it will save a great deal of time to do so.
Witness—For all I can tell, I might have copied them from
the newspaper or the note-taker's slips.

them.
I ask you again did you not swear that they were all written
at the meeting ?—The majority of them were written there, or,
at least. gem rely speaking tin y were.
While the meetings were going on, were you always em-
ployed wetting?—Not alway —only sometimes
"1 hat is, you were sttmetimes only listening?—Yes
Do you recollect Alr O'Connell having made a speech
upon negro slavery ?—I do; he spoke several times on that
subject.
'I urn to your note of the speech he made on that subject
nn the sth of July. 's ere you present on that occasion e
Ye
Was not the speech a long one ?—Y. s, to the best of my re-.
collection.
I want a positive answer ; were you present the v, hole time
of the meeting ?—I rat her think I was.
Is that a positive aniwer ?-- Were y tu present the whole time
of the meeting ?--.I will nor swear positively.
Will you swear you were there for an hour ?—Yes.
For two how ?—To the best of my rt coliect
I, that the only an wer you will give ? Will you swear po-
sitively to one hour ?—Yes.
That hour may have been made up of different psi iods ; were
you there more than once that day ?.--1 won't swear I was
there more than once.
Will you swear positively you were there more than an
hue ?—I thick I was, bur I dui not torte myseif.
With you swear p sittvely to half an hour.—No.
Will you be positive to one quarter of an hour ? Yes, and
more.
What hour of the day did you go to the meeting ?—I don't
know exactly.
Who was on his legs when you entered the roem ? - I don't
know.
Did you tot off-r, a while ago, to tell me? Was any one in
the room when you went in ?-0f course there was.
When you entered the room, was it empty or full ?—I never
went into the r..om but people were to it.
Can you tell wh ther it was morning, noon, or night when
you entered it was about mid-day.
Did you hear the whole of Mr. u'Connell's speech ?---I did
not hear the whole of it. -
You say you went there about twelve or one o'clock ?—Yes,
to the best of my recollection. •
And you swear you heard Air. O'Connell speak there?
Yes.
Will you swear that Alr. O'Connell was at the meeting at
two o'clock?—fie came in whilst I was there, seem ding to my
note.
[ The witness was still under examination when our express
Lett.]