The Sun.
London, England, 1850-05-24 00:00:00

but
sfcteeir-----ved the first overture of France •.vith coldness;he
accepting the good offices of France for the
ii of the business, was the conduct of the (...e-
-'erne ent to France straightforward, putting cordiality;
!side? Ia the first place it was not cordial; in the next
Nlt was not streightfore ard otherwise the catastrophet
sht not have occurred.—(Hear, hear.) I do not
know what the Noble Lord thinks of this. Every night
t N°ble Lord is informed by gentlemen around him
'at he is a Minister free from responsibility to Parlia-
gree4t- That almost makes a man believe that he is irre-
iP°ll'ible• The Noble Lord has been in office for the
slit four years, and I think he must have reflected on
the di to occurrences of that period—her Majesty's
Plenipotentiary kicked out of Spain—(Hear, hear)i —n
next, the Austrian Ambassador disappears from
ica(tiear)—suddenl the French Ambassador goes.—
Lor o
((Isar
Not sincelong; the waters of the Hellespont
goes.—
were disturbed, and even the Turkish Ambassador getsltl
addition
nervous state.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) .
rr
b dltion to this, nobody knows where the Russian A
assador is at the present moment. We do not know
Whether he is recalled, or whether he remains to adorn
n
which
society of which he is so great an ornament and
e.
ss he is so justly popular. The Noble Lord,. r -
l'utcrabering all these remarkable diplomatic eirsceiritmes efleFes, and that the Government had been in a diplomatic scrapes from the moment hetook office, no
doubt felt
for, that the country was reconciled
.to these un-
b fortunate contingencies by the recollection that our
with u 8 n hbours in France were on the best terms
thel", and that, whatever were our differences with
iba. other powers of Europe, the French people had re-
dly_
°led, under every form of government, the cordi 1
tbe. England, —( Hear hear.) But, I think, when
ceiyes;othblset
our
at the 'head of the Government per-
Prieie late demonstration has succeeded in de •
our s.g us of this sole compensation for the mischiefs of
0;`, otplo
sieni 1, tua°3', that even at this critical hour of seven
~ and notwithstanding the silence of the other
14,_' be will rise and give us some assurance that we
'e yet one ally left.—(hear.)
41#3tcl J. RUSSELL—The observations which the
col• G,eent!eman has just made. are the best proof that
ter u u given of the wisdom of the advice of the Noble
ci the Member for Hertford, that this question should
peruse
be debated till Hon. Members had had time to
bebrese the papers laid on the table. If the Hon. Mem-
Ptpehti had even a glimpse of the contents of
.these
rs 4° could hardly have fallen into the serious
e •ora , •
The „Watch have occurred in the course of his
.speech•
The r nourable Gentlenann expressed his suprise that.
tioe °reign Secretary had not referred to the convertio
th,,,..°f April. The object of the Noble Lord
Lahittewsas
that'ulthat the statement made by General
'at that Pronsise made had been kept, was unfounded-
alludedconvention
dated the Noble Lord has done. The copiavneenks
is
dated t° by the Honourable Member for
Grs_ the 18th of April. On the 23d of April Baron
went as that announcement to the Greek. Govern-
IV ettttd to Mr. Wyse, which, in the opinion off M .
Lio3e.BB,!,,easPended and put an end to for a time the umncr-.
sl'),,,,v'
fight
negotiators. In that interpretat.
kbl; be right or wrong. The argument. of the
ecttie rd Was to show that he was right in havii
cottple t° coercive measures. If he was justified
..nagrethmastt
have elt't,t is obvious that the convention of
on
April
April nialved at Athens toe late; for itfiwasdo the 23d of
,i ° dee ision was come to, only vedays after the
Nan the convention. The Hon. Member for Bucks
shy
,tiot understand why the Noble Lord did not explain
the bust convention of the 18th of April did not conclude. 3
had bltsirless. If it had not appeared to us that Mr. Vys mad let' Mistaken with regard to Baron Gros'sannounce-
,have
sti Ito mistaken
Greek Government, then stress would
14 au4 on the convention of April; but the statementtm
tt 41e Precluded the necessity of laying any s.tretshsautpin.
ter 4e
Mr. Wyse was right or wrong
4crottati°4 Will be matter for future argument.inThe Hon.
!t,egotiseseemed to wonder that there should have been
`l4l a.,-.°llB at Athens at all. From the first the ues•
Eng lish
!100,,, Was to he settled at Athens, not by the
• gr
of
skill: Tit by the French sending them a negotiatohas. ieler'ea Prudence. The first thing the French am
4eßors'e.nt tO this country did, was to agree
Tthat the
130$kilLtl°4 be conducted at Athens. he pro-
tftcrpCitrried
sinto effect on the 18th of April was an
ha, b'Ought of the French Ambassador, and would
tiltell beeehilsbighlY useful if Baron Gros had not taken the.
Calthfar:u done, and would have concluded, probably in
4t ett.,-'°rY Way, the settlement of the question. With-
',lt,, Pres.`rtn2 into any general discussion of thewith respect
h.' th ex am anxious to say a few words
.
Tcte e `lPtanation I gave on a former occasion. Having
ill! einigaged in attending a Committee till three o'clock.
alsada •ut read the dispatch of General Lahitte. I hadh
`tasssg'neral statemet in the newspapers, thatdtts
Pstelcu Minister of Foreign Affairs had written a
not-
eOl theeeset•iling M. Drouyn de l'Htsys, but I had .
rillt the dispatch. What I had just come from reading
` his - '''snatch of Lord Normanby, giving an accountthe
44'1 eoneers • • h General Lahitte. When .
Llv4t ,Gelllletuati°nwith
opposite asked me the question
tt ril'„4ll staatnemnt had been made, I could notdts. i,tt:h- L,,rlari state shortly the purport of that
jet th4l.,t- stated that, in consequence of the displeasurea.
L'aty' `farerleh Government at the conduct of her M
:laeB,, `-'overnltient respecting Greece, they had thoughtto
i.4Y 1;:,41tY to recall their ambassador. I went. on
.'bl-,' the French Minister for Foreign Affairs had
tsrtit;°. Lord Normanby that the
.return of M. Drolly•n
ter as Must be considered as entirely natural, since,
re the be must
sent here specially for the affair of Greece,
b;tthcditnie,gotiation having failed,. his mission hail
at 4 dis Lerraination. It is right I should state that
t:tes tbt:,.te.ll received to-day from Lord Normanby, he
- 4'kl)i. -'
though he believed General Lah.itte
dto
shnavot;
,kttolr,,e,4ed him- lf yet, as General Lahitte
to'q'''' rtrekingbe' such a' statement, he could notoe hold
i
‘rletelleeh Ir'°' . such
Minister to the words which he
dispatch
at tia',„• °i• lelgtl stated what I gathered from the
G.
ts t-ii"orinaabl ished to state that the French, ore
11
ttllc.
t h" re Yil d''their ambassador from dtsplcasu
sirs t'
4rlrY i' h Government,eae
to imply that
yet there had been word,
01,es, 'eneral Lahitte which seemed
NI "et's were not so serious as that bare fact of the
°thtl• t"tlict lead one to suppose. With respect to any
furtstisentetearu.,ent if mine, I can only say I answered
hthe
r
t,tta„,oKed me. When the Hon. Baronet the fat e
tie atd 11: asked ree if I had a copy of the dish, I
ras I"44rlnot• and in answer to another Hon. Gen.-
lifq,,P:4;,,i letiii it not;
been.rreead. The statements, there
the whole truth as far as I
tiai;)esr lt-s-ts(Claenettrsin)adeAwthere is to be no formal discus-
flutt'vilt.roe...:Dlestir.in at As there
present moment, I regret the
iliftpodnu.. of. the Hon. Member for Canterbury, as
11,i,'elties'alcsY is rather to increase than diminish the
I'4'9 tsts°t" the question. In any
of the
hereafter
Nth, II:, ,ray full share in it, and f h responsibility,
4,.. erßetiule Lord who conducted the negotiation was
retee) of the Government—l, as
_the head of that ih tee,vlat, consider myself to be mainly responsible.—
."96' ) I may 4.. 'eh ,s,_. ~ y state that there have been occasions
kr,or:l);sr;_einiati„on and good offices have been of use-
4stli,ri °ree:`l•-• Medaitton J—there are cases in which
)1 eli tw have been the means. of maintaining peace
lii,N k den countries. There is the case ofN amplQess.,
te, suspended of ours was enforced by coerciveGo
apt' Whole at the request of the French vsertin_-.
tell:Ili-404e good offices were accepted andsucceefs
tfhel
Aarls eo ease, that of Mexico, the position
e otlttritries
the was reversed. . France and Mexico
Itiir4 Of • eve of hostilities, and the good
lio ilqt r, England were successfully employed. I
sot. sse_,
1, tl. It "W enter into other matters. I agree with t.h?..
torn o,taer for Canterbury, that if there is any explo.
kn,eta4,', peer
we can make to the French G _
•ala a cone.
taid bd wh isteet with the honour and interest of
Iktisrstand• 1141 may remove the present unhappy mis-
se h„,"Lng, and restore to a state of harmony thelee.-
);,etasi,;"°, Pen the two countries, no effort of the Lit
ttl',‘Bl.Rbieeertell be wanting, and no opportunity. shall be
1,, l•tio, ''' to make it.......(Ghcers.) Notwithstanding th.e. 'ti '°f th
rit, eon
e Ron. Member for Bucks, I.trusnt vv. es.snheael.l
10. 4 1 for ng acted with cordiality aOl I
444 ll° p4o-ji;i,ri. g hestation which I hold, I can truly say
kr:llt pre "'tat occurrence ever gave me so much pasitisa
tntr4 thr'tent unhapy difference with France. .
F '"
the 4-
°lle occasion we have shown a desire to con
kts4,,ties Wish"a aninterests of the Government of
-hlo'Zbi;,%.ill not say when the interests of England
f)Llts. q th7i'd to our doing so, but wh,.en the popular ()pi-
ke° e'isls • country was against y ielding to France.
rtl..k pone to show forbearance, and. to see France a
to "se •" on the Continent, fully convinced that upon
Pl'il'-('lCtlitueleterv,depends the peace, and prosperity of Eu-
j"n *)
and
t e be sPnussl°ll was here terminated,
e'eir, ‘'•.°•'-e•R put the question that he now leave
'tl whi h
ttk Abls c
't,f' Ata.ser-trJERATION OF COFFEE.
tt er th k- then rose to move, pursuant to notice,
Ittitltstle revenuee'a of the public health, the improvement
.41)'"r, it , and the encouragement of. thbeefianigr
kkri 6 as expedient that the laws
tell tilt those in force for the reprossinonnwiofinoffences
I,htjreves,s° laws which regulated the sale of coffee
ti °lib' -`eci its adulteration. When ho had brought
etn Icet o
Itl, th 9 sst.l a former occasion under the notice of the
It ,:44 k . illght Honourable Baronet the Chancs•llor
Ltie'ete
i.rritter.(Sir C. Wood) had said he wouldiew takeo_ lAit!riz 4114 serious consideration, with the
evilsv corn!
Tii,tiM Of, serious
measure to remedy the chteltly ,ailbut the Right Hon. Gentleman hd subse-
a any
.I'lls 14 tk_that he did not intend to proposeitwould be
tekwled th:te existing law. From
4,°f th:te, jilt
I.,,the,
Right Hon. Gentlemthaant did not con-
Ott i. law ej°aing any obstacles in the carrying out
.'tq Tt.--- it at present stood with respect to that
lo Itei. ',ere 'A fnsto be taken
1,- th,, -044 . Were several consh.era to
'hie," terse 10 that particular, which were indioated.
teillcu**•-tu: Of his notice. There was first the public
tfilset°4 te theti there Was the loss quarter of a
of
taheencourage-
4, the ttlfu ri cied fan v etnhnea —and
fraudulent finally'at the expense
t4erirebecr trader. For all these matters the Right
colleagues, the
11:4,,hert ,:, Gentleman and his .
!tor,'oll4C the present Government, were responsible.
aistbe ti"Pon referrin to the returns which were be-
te the l'o Quee, that sinagultaneous with a great increase
tige nripweth of Coffee in the colonies,. and an increase
Ah;41011 , nation into this country, there was a great
th'q there"? the e
; had -mount of duty paid upon the article.
I'vQ4 •tY of , been a corresponding decrease in the
ttthene der. the consumption and the amount of th
t 4 eeh 'red fro
o, s.Ope, it, at a time when, in consequence
%Nei Phase'. Made in the tariff, a great increase had
er,a e' 'n•-!rt the consunaption of almost every other
somas it, iheet all this time there had been a great in-
41loe °f coif call
of an article sold under the
Thudltf th:et.; The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan-
su! the cbenuer in that matter, he conceived,
tiot, toh. 4 1",,a5. of that which the law required of him.
t1t,,4 Acta I!" Learned Member then referred to the va-
thereat f' Parliateent which had been passed for the
14 enbst• regtilatin -1
II e R.. Ittnio- .. g various trades, and preventing
`4t.l"t one 4 i
0 other articles for those specified.
tf _ ArQhth. he quoted—namely, the 43d of George
ally
vited, unihr certain penalties, the sale
1 'teats,'
--"',, matter. A subsequent Act,

however, in the reign of George IV., had allowel to
j certain trades the right of vending such an article,
' under particular restrictions, by an inferior class of
traders for the use of poorer customers who might wish
to avail themselves of the cheaper substitute. But with
this modiScation, the Commissioners of Excise were
obliged under those Acts to enforce the penalties laid
against every class of dealers who came under the ope-
ration of the law. And this had been always done, with
but two exceptions. Those who adulterated tea were
prosecuted; those who adulterated pepper had been sub-
jected to penalties; and in the same way with respect to
other articles ; but it appeared to him that by a certain
Treasury minute, to which he would have to refer, par-
ties were encouraged to adulterate coffee. In April,
1833, a minute had been passed, founded on a memorial
from a party praying fur exemption from the conse-
quences of a prosecution iustituted against him for mix-
ing chicory powder 'with coffee. On that occasion the
Lords of the Treasury had discontinued the prosecution.
On another occasion, in reply to the Commissioners of
Excise, they had in some sort authorised the sale of
chicory powder. And in April, 1841, when the pre-
sent First Lord of the Admiralty (Sir Francis T.
Bering) was Chancellor of the Exchequer, on
the occasion of a memorial presented from the
coffee-dealers in Liverpool, praying for a change in the
law respecting that trade, it had been set forth in a
minute that the mixing of chicory with coffee was not
considered a fraud on the revenue, and cert sin prosecu-
tions commenced had bred stopped. It had been sup-
posed that as long as the chicory paid the proper duty
there was no loss to the res eau°. Now, it should be
supposed that some strung infl iences actuated the Chan.
csllor of the Exchequer when he allowed the fair ch alers
to be put down, the revenue to be injured, and the public
health to be endangered by that practice. The lion.
Member then went into some statistical statements,
showing how the revenue from coffee and foreign chicory
duties had diminished since the year 1830. Foreign
chicory paid duty as well as coffee; but when it was
ascertained that no duty was imposed on home-grown
chicory, its cultivation was carried on to a large extent
in this country; and from the year 1840, when the last
Treasury minute on the subject had been issued, there
was a double advantage derived from the adulteration of
coffee by chicory. It would be found that for thrt e
months in the present year. as compared with a cor-
responding three months of the previous year, the loss
to the revenue on the coffee duties amounted to
about 36,000L—(Hear, hear.) Tho Honourable Mem-
ber having referred to some authorities to show
the increase in the quantity of chicory lately
grown in this country, and having entered into calcula-
tions of the consequent loss to the revenue, asked the
Chancellor of the Exchequer how he could come down
to that House to propose new taxation, when he aban-
doned an actual amount of revenue to the extent of
250,000 L, and did not endeavour to realise a probable
increase t f the same to the amount of half a million. In
reply to what the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said
on a former occasion, he would observe that if a party
wished to purchase coffee at a fair price let him do so,
and pay a fair price for it as coffee; and if he wished to
purchase chicory at a fair price, let him do so also, and
mix the two articles then according to his own taste.
But even the article grown and sold in this country as
chicory was in itself adulterated to a very considerable
extent, in consequence of the demand for it. He had
the authority of parties well acquainted with all the de-
tails of the trade for stating that that which was called
chicory was largely adulterated with what was called
common raddle, a kind of earth like Spanish brown, and
inferior to Venetian red. Another party, to whom a
complaint had been made with respect to the colour of
coffee, had said it could be improved by being worked
up with soot.—(Hear, and laughter.) All the adultera•
bons to which he had alluded were under the sanction of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he had letters not
only from wholesale but also from retail dealers, stat-
ing that in consequence of the Treasury order which
the Right Hon. Gentleman persisted in maintaining,
they were unable to cope with the unfair trader. The
extent to which the adulteration was practised was evi-
dent from a comparison of the quantity entered for home
consumption in the present and the past year. In the
quarter ending April last there was an increase of im-
portstion, the amount being 4,236,9991 b., while in the
corresponding quarter last year it was only 3,650,5261b5.
The consumption, however, decreased for while in 1849
it was 9,386,2551b5., in 1850 it only amounted to
7,465,3841b5. Notwithstanding this, there was no doubt
that the consumption of the article called coffee had gone
on increasing. What was the case with the revenue de-
rived from tobacco? It had gone on increasing for some
years past, and still continued to increase, because the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had pursued in that case,
and to this day continued to pursue, the very course
which he refused to adopt in the case of coffee; he had
taken steps to prevent its adulteration. The decreasing
nsimber of prosecutions, and the increasing revenue,
showed that the system had proved effectual in checking
the illicit trade. He did not ask the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman to bring in a Bill to give effect to the law. He
asked him only not to stand in the way of the execution
of the law. lie asked him to listen to the representations
from the merchants and traders of London and Liver-
pool, and other places, and from all those interested in
growing coffee, and to revoke the Treasury order. Ile
asked him not to prevent, but rather to direct the Com.
missioners to execute the law established by the 43d
Geo. 111. and 3d Geo. IV.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was not disposed to deny that the facts stated by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman were, to a great extent,
true. Beyond doubt the consumption of coffee had fallen
off, and there had been an increase in the revenue to a
cert in extent; and it was equally true that coffee was
mixed with chicory and other articles. But it might be
qwstioned whether that falling off in the consumption
was owing to the admixture of chicory. He had very
great doubts on the subject. The fact was that several
other articles had entered into the consumption of the
people. The great reduction which had taken place in
ttin price of teas of ordinary character must not be lost
sight of. There were two grounds on which Parliament
might justify such an int.' ference as that proposed by
the lion. and Learned Gentleman—first, when the adul-
teration was calculet ,d to injure the revenue ; and,
secondly, when it was likely to prove prejudicial to the
public health. Now the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
probably might not like the admixture of chicory with
coffee, he did not like it himself, but he never heard that
it was prejudicial to health. It was remarkable that,
while many memorials had been presented on the sub-
ject
by the sellers and growers of coffee, he had
heard of none on the part of the consumers. The llon.
and Learned Member had also mentioned other mate-
rials used in adulterating coffee, and amongst them peas
and beans; but he certainly had never heard that either
were unwholesome food. Measures to prevent the adul-
teration of tea were justifiable, because it was known '
that the spurious material introduced was sloe-leaves
dried on copper-plateie which was deleterious. Tobacco,
again, was an instance in which the Legislature thought
it necessary to prohibit adulteration, on grounds of re-
venue. The present, however, was a case in which the
public must decide for itself, and if the dealer sold a bad
article he must pay the penalty of losing his customers.
Ho had on former occasions read letters to the House,
which he would not again weary them with, which
showed that a certain admixture of chicory with coffee
promoted the sale of the article. In declining to ac-
cede to the motion of the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman he had the authority of precedent, and
was merely following the example set by three
or four of his predecessors. He had received a
deputation from Manchester of gentlemen interested
in putting down the sale of chicory, and what was
their statement ? They said that the price of
the chearest coffee sold in the berry in Manchester was
Is. 4d., while ground coffee, which one would think
should cost more, was sold at Is. a pound, which made
it clear that the price paid by the mass of the people
was below that at which pure coffee could be sold. The
proposition f it levying an excise duty on chicory grown
in this country might perhaps be a fairer proposition;
but the subject had been carefully considered, and it was
known that the opposition to an excise duty would be so
great that it was not thought expedient to attempt it.
Then came the question, whether he had put in force
the 43d George 111. and 3d George IV., and in con-
nexion with that point he must remind the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman that these enactments were not
intended simply to prevent adulterations, but to pre-
vent such adulterations as were calculated to affect the
revenue. The mere suspension of the Treasury order
would have no eff,ct. Was he, then, to undertake a
crusade against all the sellers of coffee, and send ex-
cise officers to their shops to endeavour to learn whether
they mixed it or not? This was rather a serious
request to make, and he had a very strong suspicion that
if he were to act on the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's
suggestion, and institute such a system ofdomiciliary visits,
in the course of the next month the House would be
inundated with petitions. But this was not all. It
would be exceedingly difficult to prove the fact of the
mixture, and no one knew better than the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman how imprudent it was to undertake
prosecutions upon insufficient evidence. He had asked
the officers of inland revenue whether any ready means
existed of detecting these adulterations, and the answer
was, that neither by chemistry or any other way could
they ascertain with any degree of accuracy whether
chicory was mixed with the coffee or not. Informations
might be laid, but the result would be nothing but vexa-
tion, without any practical result. With regard to the
question of reducing the duty on coffee, he could only
repeat what he had already stated on a former occasion,
that he must decline to enter into any engagement as
to what artieles might be the subject of future reduction.
Mr. CARDWELL said, without asking the Govern-
ment to adopt the course proposed by the Hon. and
Learned Member for Youghal, there could be no doubt
that the present state of the coffee trade might very pro-
perly form the subject of discussion in that House.
Seeing that the consumption had decreased since 1848
from nearly 10,000,0001b5. to 7,500,0001b5., it was not
surprising that the coffee trade should feel anxious to
represent their case to the Right Hon. the Chancellor
of the Exchequer. The Right Hon. Gentleman had ob-
served that no memorials had been presented from the
consumers, and that caveat emptor was the principle to
be applied to this case. That implied that if purchasers
were on the alert the evil would not exist. If, there-
fore, the evil did exist, it was clear that the purchasers
were not alive to it, or they would either have purchased
their coffee in the bean, or applied to the Right Hon.
Gentleman. What they complained of was, that chicory
and other substances should be consumed as coffee—
that the dealers traded upon
the ignorance of the
poor, and sold them another article instead of the ono
they asked for. He had been informed by a gentleman
who was well acquainted with the subject, that the
scale of adulteration usually adopted was that coffee sold
at Is. per lb contained three parts chicory and one part
coffee; that sold at Is. 4d. contained five parts chicory
and three parts coffee in eight parts; and coffee at Is.
ad. per lb contained equal parts of each. He thought
that was a very undesirable state of things, and three
remedies were suggested. One was the placing an ex-

cise duty upon chicory; that was considered objection-
able. The next was one that the Right lion. Gentle-
man had very properly alluded to with caution, V e
giving a stimulus to the consumption of coffee by re-
ducing the duty. That ho hoped the Right Hon.
Gentleman wculd shortly have it in his power to adopt,
although he would not give any pledge on the subject.
The course suggested by the debate was, whether the
Right Honourable Gentleman was disposed to give
to the Act of Parliament an interpretation which he
was right in saying it did not originally bear;
these powers were, he believed, given not to
protect the public, but the revenue ; but the
fair trader said, " I am in the same interest as the re-
venue, and I call upon you to exercise its powers in my
behalf." The Right Hon. Gentleman had very properly
said that the sending an Excise officer into every coffee-
dealer's establishment would be attended with ♦ery great
difficulty and objection. Favouritism would come into
play, and it would be found that one fraudulent trader
was overlooked while another was prosecuted. The
views he took of the question were entertained by the
Chamber of Commerce of Liverpool, whose sympathies
were altogether with the coffee dealers; but they did
not think it expedient to petition Parliament for the
adoptio❑ of the remedy now under consideration—they
thought with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that it would
be exceedingly difficult to give the propositio❑ practical
effect, and that its result would ultimately be to drive
the trade into the hands of the systematically fraudulent
traders. In the justice of these opinion he was entirely
disposed to concur, and he was not surprised that the
Right Hon. Gentleman should withhold his concurrence
from the proposition. Ho hoped, however, the subj•et
would receive the consideration of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, and that he would be able to devise some means
of redressing the grievance which was now vory gene.
rally complaii,e3 of.
Mr. MOFFATT said the interests cf the coffee-pro.
ducers bad been altogether lost sight of. The Right
Hon. Gentleman said the colonial producers were pro-
tected by a duty of 2d. a lb. against the foreign pro-
ducers, but that was only true up to the last five years,
and now there was no real protection to the colonial
growers. He thought the statement of the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Member for Liverpool must have convinced
the Right lion. Gentleman that the large consumption
of chicory naturally influenced the consumption of coffee.
He believed that of the 10,000 vendors of coffee in the
country, at least 9,500 mixed chicory with it. He trusted
when the question was being considered by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, that the interests of the pro-
ducers would receive due attention.
Colonel THOMPSON suggested that the way to avoid
purchasing chicory for coffee was to buy it unground.
Mr. ANSTEY would not trouble the House to di►id•
upon the question.
The motion was negatived without a division.
MANNING THE NAVY.

On the question that the Speaker do leave the Chair,
Captain HARRIS, who was very indistinctly heard
in the gallery, called the attention of the House to the
necessity of devising some means of manning the royal
navy in time of war. Mr. Ward had stated in his evi-
dence that the number of men required for the manning
of the navy in 1848, including ships in commission,
ships in ordinary, and in progress of completion on the
stocks, was 112,000 officers, men, marines, and boys. Of
these 76,000 were petty officers and seamen- The ques-
tion was, what facilities were there, under the existing
laws, for obtaining that supply? The Act sth and 6th
Wm. IV. asserted the right of the Crown to the ser-
vices of every seaman in time of war for a period of five
years, and provided that a certain sum as bounty should
be given to volunteers. It was found, however, that
that was insufficient, and other powers were had recoune
to—namely, impressment. He (Captain Harris) had ma-
turely considered the question for several years, and bad
lost no opportunity of submitting his views to the House.
He had arrived at the conclusion that the best and
the frankest way of dealing with the subject was also
the wisest, and that the system of impressment acted
injuriously for the interests of the service and the coun-

ry. He was ready to recognise the prerogative of the
Crown, and he believed the mercantile service was also
ready to contribute to the service of the Government
and the support of that navy on which its own exist-
ence depended. The effect of the impressment was to
drive thousands of their best seamen into foreign ser-
vice. He doubted whether, in the event of another war
breaking out, they would be able to impress as they
had formerly done-the opinion of the whole country
would he against them. The plan he begged to sub-
mit, and which would of course be much more effi-
ciently carried out by the Board of Admiralty than by
any other parties, was that of recognising the right of
the Crown to the services of all seafaring men in time
of war for a limited period of service, depending on the
nature of the war and its probable duration. Every
seaman in the merchant service would be bound to
serve during the period the proclamation of the Crown
was in force. After that limited period of service the
seamen should obtain a protection, and the best ma-
chinery for calling into requisition the services of these
men would be the ballot; and the registering of seamen
would form the groundwork from which the selections
would be made. He proposed that the seamen should
have tickets granted them, which it would be necessary
for them to produce when called upon. As the Govern-
ment had recently expressed its determination to give a
grant of 30,000/. to the Merchant Seamen's Fund, he an-
ticipated that there would be every disposition on their
part to promote the views of the Government. He pro-
posed that the ballot should be taken four times in the
year, and there should be arrangements at the stations
abroad by which the commanding officers of the ships
requiring men would be supplied. He anticipated that
there would be no difficulty in that way of raising
25,000 men, and ho calculated the number of volunteers
at 20,000 more. He did not think, taking into account
what had been recently done, that much more was re-
quired to make the royal navy a popular service. Both
the present and former Boards of Admiralty had done
all in their power to promote the comfort of the men.
Much had b* ea done since 1792 in increasing the
quantity and providing a better quality of provi-
sions, and abolishing the two banyan-days in
each week, when the men went without meat. They had
also got a supply of fresh meat and vegetables, whenever
it was practicable, and the best medical attendance.
They had also obtained more accommodation between
decks, and the able-bodied seamen had had an increase
of about 4s. 6d. per month in their pay since 1797.
They had also now got an allowance of one-third of their
pay while abroad, while in former times they could get
no money when on a foreign station. Another great
advantage was the diminution of corporal punishment in
the royal navy. At the same time it was well known
that even in times of peace it was difficult to man the
navy, and he had himself seen line-of-battle ships lying
at Spithoad and obliged to go to sea without the full
complement of men. It was also well known that
many of their best seamen went into foreign service-
more especially the American. It was said that the
men were better off in that service, but he did not think
that opinion was well founded. He found that the
following was the scale of provisions in both services
-the British seaman received 11b. biscuit, the American
seaman 2 oz. more ; the British seaman 4 pint
spirits, the American the same; the former 11b. fresh
beef, the latter lklb.; of sugar the British seaman
had cz., and the American seaman 2 oz. ; the other
articles supplied were pretty much the same. In salt
meat the American seaman had certainly the advantage,
and ho wished the Admiralty would increase the allow-
sec° of salt meat from 4lb, to llb., as there was a con-
siderable loss in the boiling of salt meat. With that
exception there was, in the article of provisiors, no sub-
stantial difference between the two. Whea they came
to wages, there certainly was a difference. The British
warrant-officers, first-class, had 90/. per annum, and the
American. 1401. ; the second class, 75/., and the second
class in the American service, 120/. ; the third class in
the British service, 611, and in the American, 1051. ;
the British first class potty officers had 21 12s. per
mon*, the American, 4/. to 31. 15s. ; second class Bri-
tish, 2/. Bs. 9d., American, 3L 2s. 6d.; able seamen
(British), 11. 16s. Bd., American, 2/. 10s. ; marine
(British), 1/. Bs. 2d., American, 21. ls. Bd. ; landsmen
(British), 1/. ss. ; American, 1/. 17s. 6d. Then, on the
other hand, the American seaman had no pension for
long service, although he had for wounds. In the British
service there was a pension of 10d. per day, or Hit per
annum, paid in whatever part of the kingdom he re-
sided. Should he continue in the service he received his
pension in addition to his pay. He would take the
liberty of suggesting to the Government the policy of
increasing the wages of the British seaman to some mo-
derate amount. He thought the first-class petty officers
ought to bo increased to 31. per month, the second to
2/. 10s., and the able seamen to 21., and the others in the
same proportion. Ho suggested also the propriety of
restoring the pension to the widows of warrant officers,
as he considered the doing away with it a very harsh
measure. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman concluded
by submitting his proposition to the consideration of the
Government.
Captain BERKELEY complimented the Hon. Gen-
tleman on the manner in which he had brought for-
ward his motion, and could assure him that not only
the present but precFcling. Boards of Admiralty had
taken up the question in a proper spirit. He
was, further, proud to say that the teen had now no
occasion to go back to the merchant service, as on being
paid off they had six weeks' leave of absence, and could
then return and join any ship they thought proper.
With regard to not being able to man the navy, he
could assure the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman that she
board bad taken the greatest pains to have a reserve in
hand. Further, he was happy to say, as regarded the
men themselves, that they were proud and happy to serve
in the royal navy; and, as regarded the question of im-
pressment, he found that there wasi only one petition pre-
sented against it, and that was n 1760. In that petition
it was said that although they objected to impressment,
yet, if it was found to be indispensable to maintaining
the efficiency of the royal navy, they would submit to it
without a murmur. He was no advocate for impress-
ment except in cases of very great necessity, but he
thought it would be unwise to deprive the Government
of the power of resorting to this system if they deemed
it necessary to do so. He believed that the seamen
themselves, under extreme circumstances, would not be
unwilling to submit to this system.
The motion was then withdrawn.
EXPENSES OF COMMISSIONS.
Mr. J. STUART, in rising to call the attention of the
House to the return No. 669, of 1848, of the number of
Commissions of Inquiry appointed sine!, 1830, and the
expenses of each, said that the exigencies of the orders
of the House required that not only the expenses gene-
rally should be stated in these returns, but those also
which related to all incidental matters connected with
the immediate subject referred to, as far as could beob-
tateed. It appeared that no fewer than 91 commissions
of inquiry had been issued by successive Governments
between the years 1830 and 1848. According to the re-
turns that had been laid before the House the expense
to the country of those commissions of inquiry amounted
to 638,0001. By reference to documents much more
authentic than these returns, he was sorry to say, they
had the most entiefactory evidence from individtals extt-