The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-19 00:00:00

18E SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVEN/ NO, MA RCII 19, 1844.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

of years; but it must be granted, that in this case the
holders of the stock were entitled to some bonus. They
had received no bonus by any increase to their capital,
and when it was considered that there were 81,000
holders of this stoek, whose income did not exceed
101. a year, as they had no bonus on their capital, it
seemed but fair and reasonable that theyshotild havesuch
a bonus as that which was granted to them by this mea-
sure. In respect to what his Noble Friend (Lord Monte agh.)
had said touching the diminution of the charge of the
public debt, that statement was, no doubt, an accurate
one, and afforded a strong proof of the high cha-
racter and credit of this country. In the
year 1829 he had himself called the atten-
tion of their Lordships' House to that subject. Between
the year 1815, when that charge was at its highest, and
the year he had just referred to, the diminution of this
charge had not been less than 4,000,000/, representing
a capital of 130,000,000/. Since that period other
reductions had taken place; and, making allowance for
the 20,000,000/. required to carry into effect the measure
for the abolition of slavery, the reduction in the charge
fur the funded and unfunded debt was considerably more
than 4,000,000/. annually. This showed most clearly
and satisfactorily, that while they scrupulously respected
good faith, they were enablcd from time to time, to get
rid of some portion of their debt.
Lord MONTEAGLE wished to add one word to
what had fallen from him, and give his meed of praise
to that part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan
which went to equalise the payments of the dividends. This
was not called for out of doors, nor had it any necessary
connexion with the plan itself ; but having regard to
the currency, and the engagements of the country, he
looked upon it as a measure fraught with the highest
advantage to all classes of the country.
The two Bills for the reduction of the two classes of
Three-and a-Half per Centum Annuities were then
read a second time. _

to none of those petitions or speeches, which tended
to the injury or destructions of the Protestant Church of
Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Let them do whatever was ne-
cessary to render the Church more beneficial, as a
whole, to the people of that country.—(Hear, hear.)
He entreated them again to adhere strictly, and accord•
ing to the letter, to the compact entered into with the
Irish Parliament in the Act of Union.=(Cheers.) The
Noble Earl said he was aware that that was the feeling
of the people of this country, and he (the Duke of Wel-
lington) hoped that wolf.d be their opinion as long as
there was a spark of honour in this country.—(Hear.)
The Noble Duke concluded by again exhorting their
Lordships not to allow any infringement of the Act of
Union.

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 18.
Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock.
The Bishop of BANGOR presented several peti-
tions against the union of the sees of St. Asaph and
Bangor.

SLAVERY IX AMERICA.

Lord DENMAN rose to bring under the con-
sideration of their Lordships a subject which ap-
peared to him to be of immense interest and
importance. A few nights ago, his Noble and
Learned Friend (Lord Brougham) had stated to their
Lordships the fact, that in the state of Louisiana,
in the rnited States, a capital conviction had been
obtained against a person for promoting the escape of
a slave. When this subject was brought under the
notice of his Noble and Learned Friend, it was gene-
rally believed that the sentence would not be
carried into effect. It was thought that
the law having once been declared, denouncing the
heaviest punishment against persons who should at-
tempt to rescue a slave, that the punishment in the
particular case to which he had alluded would not be
carried into effect. Unfortunately since that time a do-
cument had reached this country, bearing the marks of
authenticity, from which it appeared that on the 25th
of April a fellow-creature would undergo the sentence
of death for having promoted the escape of a slave.
Now nobody could be more sensible than he was of
the duty which was enforced on all States of laying
down rules for regulating the conduct of its depen-
dents, and he was aware how very jealous every
State must be if any interference were to be at-
tempted by other powers with respect to the
execution of the law such State had enacted.
This country was remarkable as being one of the first
to modify the sanguinary system of punishments
which prevailed, and Mr. Livingstone drew up
a code of laws for this purpose, which had been
adopted in several countries on the Continent,
and the result showed that this modification
tended to diminish crime. He did not introduce
this question as an individual one, but merely in the
abstract, with the view of seeing how far the punish-
ment in this case was proportioned to the crime. He
was aware that many persons were of opinion,
that by giving expression to any sentiment of
this kind, they were likely to increase the
irritation which existed at the other side of
the Atlantic, and render more difficult the
carrying out of the negotiations between this country
and America for the suppression of the slave-trade ;
but from all that he had been able to learn= he consi-
dered that by the expression of those sentiments it
was possible that some benefit might arise from it,
and it was impossible for any injury to be produced.
Indeed, he felt assured that in no civilised
State could any individual be found who would be in-
duced to carry such a law into effect after such an
expression of feeling. His object in bringing for-
ward this measure was the hope that the expression
of the opinion of that House would meet the eyes of
those who had the power to mitigate this sentence, and
that while they carried out all the other laws of the
country, they still would never allow this man
to be put to death, for, by so doing, they would he
throwing back the cause of civilisation, humanity,
and Christianity, for centuries. He felt perfectly
aware that it was not for the constituted and re-
sponsible authorities of this country to interfere in
this matter ; still he thought that the expression of
public opinion in this matter would be likely to pre-
vent the perpetration of this sentence.
THREE-AND-A-HALF PER CENT. ANNUI-
TIES BILL.
The Earl of RIPON, in rising to propose the se-
cond reading of the Three-and-a-Half per Cent. An-
nuities (1818) Bill, said he would detain their Lord-
ships but a very short time. The object which
they had in view was to reduce the interest upon those
annuities from three-and-a-half to three per cent.
He congratulated the House on the fact that the
state of the actual resources of the country enabled
them to make this important change, and give the
public the benefit of this great saving, without add-
ing to the permanent debt of the country. ,
Lord BROUGHAM said that the operation tes-
tified to all Europe the solidity of the resources of
this country and its untouched credi.--a reputa-
tion which they owed to their having religiously
abstained on this side of the Atlantic—that
was, the European English had abstathed—from
doing anything that might have a tendency, or the
shadow of a tendency, to impeach the right of the
creditor to be paid by his debtor. Instead of affecting
this reduction of interest, by giving a bolus, by which
the capital of the public creditor would be increased,
there had been a careful avoiding of making any in-
crease to the capital of the debt.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord MONTEAGLE said the change was a very
important one, and if he differed with the mode in which
it had been carried into effect, it was as to
details only. With the general mode in which the
proposal had been carried out he entirely concurred.
The measure was one of unexampled magnitude, af-
fecting an immense mass of capital, yet there
had not been the slightest alarm caused by it,
although there were no less than 81,000
holders of stock whose dividends were under
101. This was to be attributed to the great
confidence they had in the resources of the country
and the good faith of the Government. The Noble
Earl had stated, that the arrangement was the more
satisfactory, because it was not made by any undue
tampering with the credit or currency of
the country. It was effected on sound
and rational principles. If they had a
large surplus revenue with which they could
effect the reduction, the operation could not be
considered unjust, when there was a great reduction
in the interest of money throughout the country. It
was not a question of choice, but of para-
mount duty. The great reduction of interest
on money was not altogether an unmixed bene-
fit. Therefore, when the general body of the
public suffered inconvenience from the 'lowering of
interest they ought to be relieved from paying more
than the reduced rate. The lowering of the value of
money tended to increase speculation in the same
ratio, and this had, on former occasions, been attended
with great public inconvenience and mischief.
There were some evils from which they were some-
what protected at present. Formerly the low rate
of interest induced people to invest their capital in
all kinds of foreign securities. But he believed the
experience of what had happened within the last ten
years tended very much to guard against the re-
currence of that evil. If they looked to what
occurred in the old and the new world in that period,
it would prove the importance of maintaining public
credit. If the American States had main-
tained their credit, their territory would
afford to us the best market for our products, and
the advantage would be reciprocal. In 1824 there
was a great abundance of money, which followed from
the same causes that induced his Noble Friend
to reduce the interest in 1822. That was followed
by the subsequent over speculation and calamity of
1825 and 1826. He believed that there was still a
tendency to such exaggerated speculation, and there
might be some danger of it in our recently opened trade
with China. He by no means attributed the measures
of 1825 to the reduction of 1822, which was effected
in a satisfactory manner, and he hoped that the present
reduction, which effected a saving of 1,200,0001. ayear,
would enable the Government to take off the income-
tax, at the time promised. He thought the Govern-
ment deserved thanks for the reductions which they
had effected in the customs' duties, and he hoped they
would take an opportunity of showing the advantages
the country had derived by those measures. The re-
duction which had taken place since the peace in the
actual burthen of the national debt was far beyond
what had been foreseen by those writers who
declared the burthen could not be reduced. A
further reduction of four millions in the nomi

Earl FITZ WILLIAM thought the Noble Duke had
misapprehended him. He did not think that he had
said anything from which it could be inferred that -he
meant to overthrow the laws on which the Ref6rmation
was founded. He had only said that the parochial funds
should be applied to the payment of the Roman Catholic
as well as the Protestant clergy, whether in the Barony
of Ballysaxe, or any other Bally.—(Hear, and a laugh.)
The speech of the Noble Duke reminded him of the
speeches he had heard before about the Coronation
Oath, and other fine things, which they were not
allowed to touch. Ile put the speech of the Noble Duke
in the same category ; and notwithstanding the Noble
Duke's warning he thought the time would come, and
many of their Lordships would live to see it, when with
the Noble Duke himself, or some following the steps of
the Duke in 1829—he had no more doubt of it than
that he was at that moment standing in that House—
an arrangement would be made for paying the Roman
Catholic priests.—(Hear, hear.) So that the warning
of the Noble Duke had not the slightest effect upon
him.—(Hear.)
The Bishop of EXETER tendered his sincerest thanks
to the Noble. Earl (Fitzwilliam) for having made a
speech which had drawn from the Noble Duke (Wel-
lington) near to him an address which entitled him to
the gratitude of Protestant Christendom. Yet he must
say that the subject itself had come upon him somewhat
suddenly; fur in the usual notices of their proceedings it
was stated simply that the Noble Earl had to present a
petition on the subject of Ireland; and, not contented
with this, he had rambled into the state of Ireland and
of the Protestant Church there. The Noble Earl said
he would have nothing to do with the spoliation of
Church property ; he would not centralise it, but allow
it to be spent where it was derived. And how spent ?
It was, according to the Noble Lord, to be divided be-
tween the Roman Catholic priest and the Protestant
rector, or rather the Protestant rector was to be stripped
in order to endow the Roman Catholic priest. The
Noble Earl seemed to treat the question of spoliation
lightly, but spoliation might assume a very formidable
character, and that'even to the senses of the Noble Earl
himself. Suppose those Noble Lords who had been en-
riched by the hand of spoliation, years and years ago,
were called upon to disgorge, in order to supply the
wants of the poor in the very parishes where
the spoliation had taken place, how would they
like it ? In the Noble Earl (Fitzwilliam) him-
self ; in another Noble Earl near him (we
believe the Earl of Besborough was alluded to), and in
the Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) also near him, he saw
three Noble Lords who occupied a much larger portion
of confiscated property, than did the Church itself in any
of the three counties where their estates were situated.
—(Laughter.) And those were the individuals who
talked so loudly of justice, and so loosely of spoliation,
and whose estates had been granted to them by the same
sacred and inviolable law, that had awarded the pro-
perty to the Protestant Church ! lie admonished the
Noble Earl to be careful of his sayings. But he would
not only be his monitor—he wou!d venture, on this occa-
sion, to assume the character of prophet ; and in the
spirit of prophecy, he would say that if spoliation was
made on Church property, spoliation on private property
would speedily follow. He tendered his humble and
most heartfelt thanks to the Noble Duke, and he (the
Right Rev. Prelate) believed that of all the services
which that great man had rendered to his country, he
had never conferred greater services on it, than he had
that night.—(A laugh.)
The petition was then ordered to lie on their Lord.
ships" table.

IRELAND.

The Earl of FITZWILLIAii said, he had to pre-
sent to their Lordship a petition signed by the Chair-
man on behalf of what he understood to have been a
very large meeting of the inhabitants of
Glasgow, praying their Lordships to take
into their consideration the points to which
they alluded in the course of that petition. They
founded their right of addressing their Lord-
ships on the state of that country, which they said
exhibited a great number of features indicative of the
bad policy which had been pursued with respect to that
country. They urged that that policy was
calculated to excite the utmost contempt for
the existing laws and institutions and a grow-
ing hatred of all connection with Great Britain.
They concluded the petition with one remarkable pro-
position on which he would say a few words. They
stated that one principal grievance of which Ireland com-
plained was the Established Church, which was not only
intolerant and exclusive in spirit and character, but op-
posed to the conviction of a great body of the people,
that it was used as a tool of political fac•
tion, and subversive of general tranquillity. That such
an establishment (and this was the important part of
their proposition) did not admit of being amended, and
that it must, to obtain the pacification of Ireland, be
wholly abolished. Now, his opinion of this section of
the petition was entirely different from that of
the petitioners ; he was by no means of
opinion that the Church of' England ought to be abo-
lished in Ireland ; on the contrary, he thought the
Church of England in Ireland ought to be made more
efficient for the only true purposes for which
it might exist. He believed that England and
the English Legislature had been guilty of
a great crime in depriving the great mass of the people
of Ireland of the means of spiritual instruction and
worship. It had been a great crime in the English
Legislature, that they had proscribed the Catholic
priesthood, and deprived them of the means of properly
celebrating religious service in that country. It was not,
perhaps, the crime of the British Legislature alone, but
of the great growing power of the British community,
of which those in office were only the administrators.
He was told that a proposition of supporting a Catholic
clergy would be distasteful to the English people—the
Catholics themselves would not agree to it—that it
would excite the hostility of the Dissenters of England,
and that of the Presbyterians of Scotland. Now a man
met with many things distasteful to him between the
hour of his birth and the hour of his death. A nation
was not exempt from the fate of individuals. The
Dissenters of England, the Presbyterians of Scotland,
and the Irish Catholics might have to do many things
distasteful to thom—even the Church of England itself
might be brought to feel that there might be something
even more disagreeable than being brought to give up
some small portion of That which had been hitherto
appropriated to that sect, of which the Right Rev. Pre-
lates were the ministers and ornaments. Notwithstand-
ing the rebuke he once received from a Right Rev. Pre-
late, he must persevere in saying that the Church of
England was but a sect—the Catholic Church was an-
other—the Presbyterians of Scotland, the Independents
of England, were all sects—and perhaps it might be a
bitter pill for that sect which had hitherto been the
dominant one, to feel that the time was not far distant
when some portion of those resources which had been ap-
plied to itself alone, should be appropriated, in a certain
degree, to the maintenance of other establishments. He
thought it was quite chimerical to talk of making the
Irish priesthood stipendiary. Such a project would
never do. There would be rumours abroad which were
likely to impress upon some minds such a belief, but he
protested against making the Roman Catholic priesthood
pensioners. If any thing was to be done, it was that
_they should place the Protestant rector and the Roman
Catholic priest upon the same grounds, and give both an
equal interest in the peace and well-being of the coun-
try, and that the former should not assume airs to
himself while the other must be conscious of his
inferiority. What he wanted was to give a perfect
equality to the two great sects, and he could see
no great difficulty in accomplishing this. When it was
remembered that during the last 150 years, the eccle-
siastical property of Ireland had been entirely confis-
cated, and taken away from those who held it
originally, and applied to other purposes than its
first purposes, there was no man in the House so
visionary as to suppose that this exclusive Church
of Ireland would ever convert the people of Ire-
land. Such a vision was foolish, but if it ever
did present itself for a moment, he thought it must very
soon be banished, by reflecting on the years which have
rolled on, and the generations which have passed away,
without" the slightest alteration in the state of the
Catholic religion of Ireland. On - the, contrary-,
at the present moment, the Catholics of Ireland
had increased in numbers in a much greater ratio than
did the Protestants. If any inference could be drawn
from this—although he did not mean to do so—it would
be that the existence of the Established Church in Ire-
land, so far from increasing Protestantism, had been"
calculated to increase the other sect. He thought that
justice to Ireland required that they should no
anodf tahpeplywhtohleat
property
ystictaol
ptihorneogPeseorrlteytauksoeef andlre possessionabne Ireland,
fi t of one sect, and that sect
the most wealthy and most able to provide them-
selves with the ministrations of religion. Until
there was something like a fair and equal
distribution of the Church property, there could
be no peace or happiness in that country.
It might not be done this session, it might not be done '
the next, but they might depend upon it that the people
of this country, even the most prejudiced of them, must
make up their minds to do something on this subject.
}ears
was the Roman Catholic question in another form.
raciegrhtatinpaswsisae men
still it must be done.
away,
or perhaps he might
He
vte. ehnatir
heard
say wiseacres, who had said that at the time of the
union the Roman Catholic question ought to have been
settled one way or the other. Now, there were certain
questions which could only be settled one way, and the
Roman Catholic question was one of them ; and the
present question also was one of the same sort. He
defied them to maintain the Church of England in Ire-
land in its present state. He wished to see the Protest-
ant religion maintained in Ireland—he wished to
see the Protestant parishes maintained—he wished
to see the property of those parishes main•
tained, and applied parochially, Ile would have
nothing to do with spoliation, nor with taking property
for minor communities, to throw it into a sort of hodge-
podge, to be dealt with by the executive Government.
It was essential to the cause of liberty that these minor
corporations should be maintained. That which he de-
sired to see done might be easily done, if men would but
shake off their prejudices. Ile was no repealer, and he
trusted that England and Scotland would not find an
additional argument in favour of repeal by refusing to
do justiee to Ireland. What he wished to see done

Lord LILFORD presented a petition from the opera-
tive silk weavers of the township of Leigh, praying for
the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into
their case. He would move for the appointment of the
Committee on Friday.

Lord FEVERSHAM presented a petition, but neither
its object, nor the place whence it proceeded, could be
heard in the gallery.
Their Lordships then adjourned at a Quarter to
Seven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 18.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at Fours o'clock.

Mr. BUSFEILD presented eleven petitions from
places in Yorkshire, in favour of the Leeds and Brad-
ford Railway Bill.
On the motion of Mr. R. HODGSON, the Mem-
bers for Berwick were added to the Committee on the
North British Railway Bill.
The Northern and Eastern Railway Extension
Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com••
mitted.

On the motion of Sir H. DOUGLAS, the Liver-
pool Fire Prevention Bill was read a second time.
Mr. HAWES moved the second reading of the
New 13ritish Iron Company.
Sir C. DOUGLAS hoped the Hon. Gentleman
would postpone the second reading of this Bill for a
few days.
After a short discussion, the Bill was read a second
time.

The Globe Insurance Company Bill was read a
second tine.

LOCAL COURTS.

Colonel POWELL presented a petition from Wales
In favour of the establishment of local courts.

CORN-LAWS.
Sir A. LEITH HAY presented a petition in
favour of the corn-laws, and particularly against the
sliding scale.

TOBACCO DUTIES.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented two petitions from the
tobacco consumers of Manchester against the high
duties on tobacco.
COAL DUTIES.
Mr. S. WORTLEY presented petitions from the
West Riding of Yorkshire; praying for the repeal of
the export duties on coal.
THE SUFFRAGE.

Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition from Hed-
dington, Northamptonshire, praying for a redress of
grievances, aud an extension of the suffrage.
PRISONS IN SCOTLAND.

Sir GEORGE CLERK presented a petition
from the Corporation of Musselburgh, praying for an
amendment of the law relating to prison discipline
in Scotland.
REFORM.—THE RATE-PAYING CLAUSES.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from
Islington, praying for the repeal of the rate-paying
clauses in the Reform Act.
The HoN. MEMBER presented a petition from the
Tower Hamlets to the same effect.
MERCHANT SEAMAN'S FUND.
Air. HUME presented a petition from Montrose
in favour of the Merchant Seamen's Fund Bill. The
Hon. Member moved that the petition be referred to
the Select Committee on the Bill.—Ordered.
CORONERS' FEES.
Mr. 13ANKES gave notice that he would to-morrow
move for returns of the amount of fees paid to coroners
in England and Wales in the years 1830-31-32, and
'B4O-41-42.
JURISPRUDENCE IN SCOTLAND.

Mr. 'WALLACE gave notice that instead of the
motion for a Committee to inquire into the state of
jurisprudence in Scotland, he would to-morrow
move for the appointment of a Royal Commission.
IRELAND—THE ARMY.

Sir G. CLERK laid on the table numerous returns
relating to the cost of the Commissariat, and the
number of men and officers recently employed in
Ireland, in consequence of the repeal agitation,
In answer to a question from Mr. F. FRENCH,
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, that Mr. Mathews
had been appointed a provincial auditor of poor-law
accounts, with a salary of 500/. a year. The ap-
pointment had been made under the last Act, the
provisions of which it was the intention of the Go-
vernment to carry into effect.
CHARITABLE BEQUESTS.
Sir H. W. BARRON moved, according to notice,
for "Returns made into the office of the Commissioners
of Charitable Donations and Bequests since 1830,
specifying name of testator or donor, particular
diocese or court. Number of bills filed, or
actions or other suits instituted, in any Court, in
each year, specifying the time of filing bills or com-
mencing actions. Number and particulars of cases
prosecuted to conclusion, or settled by compromise ;
the amount of money realised, and the taxed costs or
expenses deducted. Number of cases where the
Commissioners have interfered, and recovered or ad-
ministered any funds or property without cost, with
the amount and expenses. Amount of sums voted by
Parliament, in aid of the Board of Charity, since
1830. Number and names of the counsel for the
board in each case, and amount of fees paid to counsel
in each case and every year. Number of cases in
which suits instituted have not been prosecuted
to a final decision or termination. Number
of cases in which the Board of Donations now
administer the funds; compensation by way of
agency. Sums in progress of recovery. Sums in
each case recovered and the expenses, compar-
tively. Sums now invested in the names of the
Commissioners, and specifications of annuities and
charities now under the consideration of the board.
Specification of the number and particulars of the
charitable donation and bequests which appear to
have been devoted to Roman Catholic schools, in-
stitutions, or charities. The number of meetings in
each year, for the last five year s, held by the Commis-
sioners ; also, the names of the Commissioners present at
each meeting. The total number of Commissioners, their
names and occupations. Return of all communica-
tions between the Commissioners and the Rev. Mr.
Birmingham, of Ballysaxe ; also his answer to the
same respecting a legacy left to endow a school at
said place. Copy of that ;Dart of the will of the per-
son who left said legacy, as:. far as. relates to said be-
quest. Amount of all costs. incurred in all case 'since
1830. Names and particulars of cases, when pro-

nal amount of the debt would occur within a

period of sixteen years, which many of their Lord-
ships might expect to ive to see.--(Hear, hear.) The
great blessings of peace had enabled us greatly to al-
leviate the actual annual pressure of the debt
without injustice or inconvenience to any one, and
considerable progress had been made in dimi-
nishing the nominal amount of the capital debt.
If they calculated the value of the capital required at
three per cent. they would get at the actual amount of
reduction which would be made in the capital of the
National Debt. The success of the experiment proved
the extent of the credit of this country to an infinitely
greater extent than if they had kept up an im-
mense amount of taxation for the purpose of
keeping up a sinking fund. If they had kept
up a sinking fund of 5,000,0001. or 6,000,0001. a-
year, they could not have operated such an amount
of reduction with the same certainty. He
had hoped as a matter of principle that
a little additional notice would have been given to
the holders of the stock. The Bill would not receive
the Royal assent until Thursday, and the time for giving
notice would expire on Saturday. This would ope-
rate as no practical grievance, he admitted, because
it would not be for the interest of any of the holders
to give the notice, but still he thought that on princi-
ple a longer period should have been allowed. He
cordially supported the measure.
The Earl of RIPON was glad to find that the
Noble Lord's objections were confined to the de-
tails of the measure. With regard to the notice of the
transaction, it had been a limited one ; he admitted
that it might have been advisable to have given
a more extended notice ; but when they dealt
with large questions it was important that
the transaction should be closed at as early a period
as possible, and as no essential injury to the parties
interested could ensue, he must confess" that
as a matter of principle he did not feel
that the Government were called upon to
give longer notice. His Noble Friend had
alluded to the guarantee. He did not object to the
principle, that it was in general inconvenient for a
Government to tie itself up in this manner for a 'series

would not abolish the Church of England in IIela14;
but would rather strengthen its foundations. He had
stated explicitly his sentiments on the subject, and
should conclude by presenting the petition.
The Duke of WELLINGION thought that nothing
could be more inconvenient than raising a discussion of
this nature upon the mere presentation of a petition.
The discussion into which the Noble Lord had entered

embraced not only the state of the Protestant religion
in Ireland, and the compact entered into for its
maintenance, but it referred to the whole foundation of
the Reformation in this country. The Noble Lord had
proposed a scheme, of the particulars of which he was
not exactly certain himself, neither was he certain as to
the period which it could be carried into effect, nor of
what might be its ultimate results ; but it went to the
repeal of all those laws on which the Reformation in this

country was founded, and he took the opportunity of
warning thoir Lordships how they introduced measures
of this sort into the House ; they went not only to do
away with the religion of the country, as it was esta-
blished at the time of the Reformation, but to the sub-

version of that system Of toleration which was founded
at the Reformation, and in the maintenance of which
every person of every religious persuasion was interested.
He implored their Lordships' not to encourage those
doctrines, which tended to destroy the laws upon which
the Reformation was founded. He begged them to re-
collect that the Church of Ireland had existed over a
period extending from 250 to near 300 years. It was
maintained in that country for a century of constant
rebellion rand massacres, ending in a struggle for the
possession of the Crown. The Protestants maintained
the country, and kept possession of their Church.
That Church continued during another century, op-
posed and labouring under difficulties of all descriptions,
but still maintained.—(Hear, hear.) At the period of
the union, the Parliament which had the power to con-
sent to that union stipulated that the Protestant Church
should be maintained.—(Hear, hear.) Their Lord-
ships entered into that compact, and they should never
lose sight of that fact.—(Hear, hear.) He implored
them not to be prevailed on to make any alteration in
that compact so long as they wished to maintain their
union.--(Hear, hear.) He thought they could not de-
part from the compact without a breach of faith as
great as had been committed in other countries, referred
to by a Noble Lord in the course of that evening.—
(Hear, bear, and a laugh.) He entreated them to listen