The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-23 00:00:00

THE SUN,

er tar. Setae's amendment .
Against.., ... ...
Tae , Majority ...
,1,;•s ate 'era then aereed to. "e next vote a"
d was 6,59:1. to defray the
eharge et letb Proposed
;.etipolitilierrb_.Nsormreti_lles'aitl, that a few nights rap the Hon•
East Sarrey produced a large bundle of
boos d and took upon himself to nnewer et °hat had been made that the duelindivi whose
ait
e„ tioler he assailed (Mr. Wise) was acting on every
Dram as a partner and agent, to Mr. Brooke. ( elr.
tat snstorld dissented.) He (Mr. Hume) would show
a fir, !Brooke had solicited Mr. Wise to becom.,er
latPlttner, and would produce an account current
_tar.
leer of the partnership concern, signed y
been las°,
,sa Ns.eer had such a tissue of falsehoods tell me of In that latuse against the character of any
etti in 4 iled been used against the character of Mr. Wise
if kr.s,l,Pipiert of that ot Mr. Brooke. In a letter writt, n
etas
aa: 9 to Lord Palmerston, d. -el Oct. 31, he
keit, ''Lli resalt of the attack, and said:hel availed him-
hehok° ePportunity of acquainting his L,rdeehiptihxa-t
iltirlbt:Truinced the political rela•ionship hitherto
it,../),""en Mr. Brooke anti himself.
Halt. ilictt-T, NIMOND inquired the date
44 the_lert.tervia.ise
Nis n '', '`IE —The 31st October, 1.8 8... Al
!teal . c''otiger be connected with an individual
.as poll_
hero who could forget the ties of humanity and
the i: buccaneer and plunderer. The next allegation o
lot ei.,12- Gentleman was, that Mr. Wise was thbeorieina-
teetheZtyeeitation which had taken place itnbt
aeyeeou'r.gnitz.
d.11.i.n0% ctot,ilndi hadrtbehre,ebnipfrowmitbaybiuLd
Now he
messedi t i h
aistie,dand ail partnership
from Sir J. Brooke to Mr.
14th March, 1841, in
q t"
formation of Borneo company,
eenulA a in
which he. reweboinaeb-
llteha`,4
snake a part. In that letter Sir J. Brooke
d tated the
atise:4 uof such a company, an . s„.
mi,,,ot
deo. IProducts to be found in Borneo, in whim a'ses,
of
11,441! als unjust, therefore, to accuse Mr. w 1
,t 4 bit° ''',ell the party who set such a company ageing.
,444 th:Pution, Sir J. Brooke had from the gse ha Main chance in view. It had been beginning
that
e . . tever
'bela •
Ned 1115,t,,n, hand a private letter of
tioerh:nta March, 1842, in which stated
butk
he e
,titi;i` 8114 a title might add to his he
.with the
se am-
'itioirs,4ld on that asc'ount, though not other
144111 r it, he would not object to it being wbestowed
heiti.l3-01,,.., i ae had another letter, which showed that
atieet asaeo was in 1840 engaged in mercantile trans-
)aitie ' At a later date, viz., in 1844, Sir J. Brooke,
Ntt! t° hl r, Wise, said, " After all, I shall
clearlycjosern
thtleet with Sarawak without being a luser,
tnen, Qg that he looked on himself as a traders Theac
estattittlensan opposite had stated that Mr. Wise
.h
a 1
et
to
.Brooke about a partnership. _ _ Now in
J.
ilkokeos s, dated in February,
.184.).
Nate l!oriliSei him a joint share with himself in the
Nilo arisate
n K from their mercantile transactions, and
41ettrI4i- the agent of Mr. Wise in London to receiveiettr
?t(lll°,,i,a,tl,tirsin shipped on his account. The
Cotth that LUC, duration°Y of the agreement was e.s. dependsb
4'4° "latual convenience of the parties; but it was in
445, il,t, that
eery hour. In another b t-er,
a of a
itkities'sl". 13rooke agreed to the appointment'dto the
'tatts°-altati informed him that he should attend
latetilettorts of Mr. Wise, and render to him ant annual
stilattleeprit" A. reg ' account current was kep by. the
iltßritrtlite ° itiet
Countheeoaticaerrkn, and he (fir. Hume) held in his
21,4, ..*l.l3rookt,t'"l .en from Mr. Brooke's ledger,
which a h dance was struck of
lieeth dollar from
Aprilllie to September 1,
111,4 t tilt ghats'Nih he d stated would satisfyltBh4e6l.lous)e.
;e th:'"'"etnen'ts ada b the Hon. Gentleman oppat
144-Ather night weree not come'. Ho th, ughtl
ak,,ttittleeilit3eht.t,teromg first to last Sir J. Brooke had been
071 reta„): La strongest merctile motives, and that.
11/71' to Z, attacks on the nativessarawhal,bettbustmsaidro IT.
lieptketa re 411 the trade to
Gesturee R t profit b it —(Hear, hear.) Ile could
enT(l)..t
eutlsicier S. YJ
11. ooke as a fit person ,a, e
Se il,ith th
, Sir
. rt
of Labuan, and he thoughtr,
~t4ttl:l-erlt h:,,,g,"teerdnuLenst improperly in appointing
lat°t,ef(lostbettait!..i.eivatiOn. He o objected to the item in .
Vee
th._.eri s on various groun,al.lsl,orbutmore particu-
had not been en
)Z,4lltea t.4ol,'alind that the
St;,4 that ‘,(rnt.last year. BgyotyhtleheLileaustteaneacnotu-cintosv
;both
4t;,,,iinJ Brooke and ietrna Lieutenant-Governor
:1041d GLIC,NT3Tre'
-ethos% etiti hoped thatthiesf
It kr,,. , and that the time painful
rHu loud discussion
woulduss in
tNerf `uer Wasted. He did not blame the Hon.
flatia.g,t, Uwontrese because he had not began the di7
lahvkiod,
r',ld as not the first to drag out a discussion of
keels old f aatracts from confidential private letters
tit t. a. a„„, riends.—(llear, hear,)
t&ati 11,71 t U4RT thought the Hon. andi.LeeaureneeoduGtebnis-
toe:4,,besn rather late in his interference
thought
i Itntil the 'Ar the Hon. and Learned Gent
Ire: 'et ese-scussion after the speech of the Hon.. Melina;
t7Oh "eatrose his notions ostice and fatr p
I.:l4.ll4i!eren;froin those of theireat majority of th_a!
it to h 'no Hon. and Learned Gentleman.i
iusht?;ede,de
to
See stet° no such discussion he ought, 11
elope eavoared to prevent the Hon. Member for
--`kir. litstreeeedin. with his one-sided statement.
toe LtstE--..114q could he?---(Laughter.)
le7tllst iiisia‘i,,TXßY'vdi not think he deserved the pon-
att swar,:, anon of the Hon. and Learned Member
lia.4lher f‘ It was not in his power to stop the Hon.
clellatt4 and Montrose. The example of reading irom
Stir aetti, confidential letters
.was set by. the Hon.
a,ueth ,aPPosite a former night, and it was onlye
111-aaer,„"ils shouldonbe heard. He trusted that th
4'4. btl'ii.''',.' g.) no further.
4:teeAli 411.0a11e believed that the Honourable and
1414 thsla°talser for Cockermouth was not in the Ho
hl4 the - &eon al a for Montrose got up.
4°146 ' ena er .
he kr. btor N BY—Immediately after.
Me
_
41: 'l/41 I,' "MOND—If the Hon. and Leased 21
Icon.
4 tubers.,,,,n, Present, he would have heard the
fo.us of „ Montrose say that he had never heard such
'hes talse
Illight 14 tii hoqds as that
like Now it
tio, 4,
v_ hat Hou,e against at
.em
wich„crhaldvib.se.ai brought
he '• keatarY convenient for Hon. Members
very fair to
ltai -quer for M the . but it was no- •
chares
as aim; „ Oo.e, . , the
as litst . sating durtne session various kinds of
be known
shat ' Public - • letting it ,
Apo .1•10.,,_ ic servant, without
at:sitetiee'anttrges positively were. The Hoe. Member's At tad de . 0 reeise the grant.
-' - ^as c
e pirates.
tastlaather tiled that the natives of Borneo
Now
tt'litla e ti hat
the Hon. Member male a chargewr about
1741Inte8mbeehl,g unworthY a servant of the Crown. e
as, one W., - had talked about
the trader; in
vtlle'r trading, but bad not
akaa, the ago as to the public conduct of
a._
..m'd to j:,°°..; Member seemed to be like the person 1
~,, ealesaa, who
----
"lad a sort of general notion
Thßi Pf finding out progressive motion;”
el. "Tw • serpentine."
II tieti ~ Lot direct, but s
Dot i;s4teenber, indeed knew nothing of Sir J.
jaattl aaatt What Mr Wise had told him. pirates su-
m 110 .." the assertion that the Dyaks were not p
4'4 liW tiven u X from Mr. Hume.) Why
tl.t! od3. bu, ,P.--(1. e, no,.
tle,,Piratel . 110/1. Gentlemen oppomte knew that they
Dore
Itaa„. Indeed, did not
the parties themselves..
17° hoe kaaughter.) By the last arrival from Stnga-
"ls oth 'ad received confirmation of what he had .
Nail se
been entered into
stated
IN a claig.t. An agreement had
14, esed
v. wlth an
gage in
unpronounceable name., in evb hich sin
be the Dyaks would never again ehllOf p• Piray.....( ilear, hear.) In further cognfiliaa-
e4, Noy h . . ,
t,41. Id 41,, aving existed, he might refer to
resident
Seeelloete Ilia hand, from one of the oldest
asulle et Sta to a letter
tree scats
ot Mere, who mentions he had a lively
iattiesa years t the state of the western coast of Borneo
11l eh/ Italie, ago, and of the terrors occasioned by the
tt seki e Sir James Brooke hail been instrumental.
to ''ut 1,1:_g• The letter concluded by observing that
h Datil' 71,8 track on the coast of Borneo, would do more
tel:i hilt 'troanEtstern Archiplago than anything which
110,4414 a 0 for years." Aaer all that, could it be
deertneos "It,hat tlaere was no piracy on the coast of
tltr:a te 4,,,:tlpught there was uiteseffiocient nevi-
of the
thgtZit bto-n`glq' any. court. of justice.
was that his
Net 11% in
tr against Sir J. Brooke .
position
as
of a, tler, 0 4ao Was incompatible with his
hltet% fr 4of ornarr occasion he had read a number
tlet'nnthiael'a Sir J. Brooke, averring that he would
set: siaki,,ig w,hatever to do with trade. And there_was
tlattia4tithrn-Mber of that Rouse who was not fuloly. 41111544. ~he (Mr. Drummond) had fully made good
tr,,,,rite tc) hae letters referred to were direct from oar
those 'ahepl agent, and from his agent to Sir J.
ttl'e faiett,re,a,was no breach of confidence in readingreute
ay th- B,°, assetT" It was absolutely necessary to f
kite he 4°4. k ,„1 I'ls made. There was one letter used
bllt' "w
he h d'utt far Mcntrose, which he had asked..t
14°116: eht3w thlt aPrneured it. He could inform the Cobtni
Ikt, jour
tl aaaad been gotten. Mr. Wise, who
.. at
LllO I;°u,rnal, 1,-,,,Pt in the preparation of Captain leap-
aresauttota ' had received thatmanuscript in a bex, in
t'e'rl;Yvhieh had been a number of Sir J.
ettal , Plat`ns ettera
aotilitite 114(ifver to his schoolfellow—(Hear)—Mr.
taken course, intended far publicationb—e
Ite,tailailteep trcopies of them, and had saidv,
ane‘lles- %I. a` eat Until he could mike use of them
la 40a-rill atl- 'Brooke —( Heir, hear.) That was the
ire G°
ppthe lett on. Member , e .
mNt''' °I -uleh
tile 11. had been possessed
f rred —(Hear,
e 4 ers
t°
Which he hal
r de said that if
„t? tereQtereae honourable Member ha
'eta Dosses qa istrnt of this country was not disposed to come
.iPJI-4 hhe. Sir J. Brooke was disposed to sell
Now,
to a • Bs00!tla to France or some other power.
thet'Ve las 11.`-a had not wanted any terms; ho had offere,d, 14 troattlaills territory at once to the Government,t if /tee .htllieedagePt ivory at
had boon alleged, too, th he,
Ch,, stsee aareesees 1- •
. sage tha ere ey a buccaneering exdition. 1
on
c,oste a ale lir' en. Member could never stumble.
~..
Oft,,i'llit4,llo3 ~,°()Ke had been out in that quarter in his
ldrocaa sa„-a4 a quarrel having ensued between the
NI atatessartleo and SOME) neighbouring' states, Mr.
ia.ttea stance had been asked for and given success-
-4 flit, tla aco
Nei., as hi napensution for his services the Sultan
11/. tilk ill Sarawak.—(Rear, bear) Was that, he
Ith r Pct boars
tekti, e , ecaneering expeaitioa?—(Hear, hear.)
the is Pespor,.:Eo one letter which the lion. Member had
Of the of
."ng to be from Brooke to Wise, offering
attege heitt,'"3' coonmcal profits minus the expense s
Singe 44 lea ° establishment, the history of that letter
VaitiPoreWh:',"—The night before Mr. Wise sailed from
ttr lig to ~ urought that very letter in his own hand-
Wlllll4O, tar;..l3rooke to sign, and that was the let•
• thu'll C. witi°n. Member had lead.—(Hear, hear.)
Showqtee to
eLs° had an object to carry he had shown
Nletallk tl kr. Zrenrealercial house here; but he had never
er.......,att00ke' letter cancelling the engagement
Ithifil Prook
wear.) The Hon. Member had said that
oaee....!te had inzi!lllot at his post. By a document
tho !Nen of
8_ eis hand he could show that, with the
daßeunties of.ut:na attacks of ague he had attended to
hOly to _ ti.is
.office.
It was apt ask of no ordinary
44,4 he the,c.°lotuse a savage country, In the course
in e Tlineilt tech Pursued he was only 'anxious to show
*bier heat ttta4rlt theY
baci a
MI en, had been :of the good and efficient servant
glebe.—(Hear.) The attacks
kali Linateastnnlatt against him in this country had
'IAN ja te n one source; but he hoped what "t /natter would warn the Govern%

F;

... 53
... -12

=lent that they were bound to support that excellent pub-
lic servant, who was performing his duties se cfiiciently
in a el.srant part of the globe. And he hole- the Go-
vernment would net give countenance to charees mace
against parties et a distance, when it was to difficult to
oosein proper and correct intOrmation on the subject.
Mr. C. LUSHINGTO4r wished to ask the Under-
Secretary for the Colonies what had been the re-
sult of the charges against the Lieutenant Governor of
Labuae?
Mr. HAWES said as the case was still under con-
sideration he could not communicate any decision
on it.
Mr. HUME, in reply, admitted that perhaps the word
" falsehood" was too strong a term. The Hon. Member
for Surrey, however, had admitted all his fasts. There
was no doubt on his mind but that that so-called defeat
of pirates was an unwarranted sacrifice of human life; it
had never appeared in the Gazette, and no Admiralty
order for the employment of our ships had ever been
produce I.
Mr. AGLIONBY said ho would give his vote totally
irrespeetive of all the letters which hal been read on
befit From all the documents Whiqh he he.d been
able to examine, he could come to no other conclusion
than that Sir J, Brooke was a most zealous, useful, and
efficient public officer—(Hear, hear)—and that, more-
over. those parries to whom frequent allusion, had been
made in the course of that discussion were pirates and
robbers.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COBDEN thought, before they agreed to the
vote, they should get an assurance that Sir J. Brooks
was Governor of Labuan, and actually te:ided there.
There seemed to be some confusion of idess prevailing
in the minds of Honourable Members. They did not
seem to know the comparative geographical positions of
Sarawak and Labuan. These places were no less
than 300 miles distant, and there was no direct regular
communication between them. The intervening country
was inhabited by a number of unknown tribes. La-
buan was an island on the coast of Borneo, and Sa-
rawak was a district of Borneo, about the size of York-
shire, but situated 300 miles from it. The former was
an English colony; the latter belonged to Sir J. Brooke;
hut he could not govern his own country and Labuan at
the same time. That was an objection which he had to
the vote, that the governor was 300 miles away from his
district. A lieutenant-governor had been appointed,
but the result had been that the affairs of the island
of Labuan had been thrown into such inextricable
confusion that the Colonial-office was at present em-
ployed in doing its best, and with remote hopes of
success, in endeavouring to unravel them. What
he wanted was, that the man for whom they voted
a salary as governor should reside on the spot of his
authority.
Mr. HAWES said his lion. Friend Mr. Cobden had
asked him to give an assurance that Sir James Brooke
should in future reside in Labuan. He also understood
his Lion. Friend to say that in that case he should not
object to the salary; that he thought the salary appro-
priated to Sir James Brooke weuid not be ton much for
the purpose.—(" No," from Mr. Cobden.) No; he cer-
tainly understood the Hon. Gentleman to say so.—
(Hear, hear.) And he also understood him to refer to
certain. instructions which were issued by Earl Grey
when Sir James Brooke took upon himself the office of
Governor of Labuan. Now Sir James Brooke bad, of
his own accord, reduced his salary by 5001. a year.—
(Hear, hear.) That was the first answer he had to give
to his Hon. Friend. The lion. Gentleman next said that
Sir James Brooke ought to reside at Labuan, and he
referred at the same time to the instructions of Lord
Grey. He (Mr. Hawes) had those instructions
before him, end he begged to say that if was never
intended that the Governor should reside entirely at
Labuan. On the contrary, it was always understood
that he should have a kind of consular office in those
seas, with a view generally to promote, extend, and
protact our trade iu those parts, and the instructions
never contemplated his entire residence at Labuan.
Nothing could be more clear or distinct than this, that
when Sir James Brooke was appointed to the office of
Governor of Labuan it was not expscted that he
should reside there, but take upon himself far higher
and more important duties than those simply of Go-
vernor; and in proof of this he referred to the instruc-
tions. He would say, also, that it would be injurious to
the public interest if Sir James Brooke were confined
to that island. It was not the object to establish a
mere colony there. Is was always considered that it
should be an outpost of our trade, which it was most
desirable to establish, especially in seas where
piracy prevailed. His Honourable Friend had referred
to Mr. Cranford; but what did Mr. Crauford say about
piracy in those seas? In the very able paper which had
been printed and circulated by Mr. Wyse, Mr. Crau-
ford said the position of Labuin would render it a most
convenient station for the suppression of piracy; that
the most desperate and active pirates in the whole
Indian Archipelago were the tribes of the Sooloo group
of islands, lying close to the north shore of Borneo
itself; that' these had of late years proved extremely
troublesome both to English and Dutch traders; that
both nations were bound by the convention of 1824 to
use their best endeavours for the suppression of piracy,
and many efforts had been made for that purpose, al-
though as yet without material effect in remedying the
evil; that from Labuan the pirates might certainly be
intercepted by armed steamers —(" What ! armed
steamers against these poor, wretched, unarmed men!")
—(Cheers)—far more conveniently and cheaply than
from any other position that could be pointed
out. (Cheers.) Such was Mr. Crautord's view
of Leeman. Mr. Crauford was the gentleman,
it should I,e remembered, who had recommended the
purchase of Singapore as another outpost of our trade;
and did any doubt the success of the establishment of
Singapore? Having shown that Sir James Brooke had
reduced his own salary, and had only performed the du-
ties imposed upon him when he took the office of go-
vernor, in extending and protecting our trade in those
parts, he thought he had given a sufficient answer to his
lion. Friend, and that he had no right to ask that Sir
.James Brootse should reside entirety in the island of
Labuan. _ _ _

Mr. COBDEN did not object to the keeping Labuan;
and nobldy denied that the Sooloos were pirates. The
pirates being in the northern extremity of Borneo, La-
buan was the best possible situation from which to ope-
rate against them. That was quite clear. And if they
paid a governor 2,0001. a year to put down piracy, let
him reside at the place where he would.be useful. But
when Mr. Cranford gave his evidence before the Com-
mittee he said there were no pirates in the neighbour-
hood of Sarawak, and that the Raja had been destroy-
ing neighbours, who were not pirates.
Mr. J. STUART—Nothing could be clearer than Mr.
Cobden's position. He objected to Sir James Brooke
being Governor of Labuan, and residing elsewhere. He
admitted that Labuan was the best of places for an esta-
blishment to put down pirates; but inasmuch as Sir J.
Brooke resided elsewhere, his capacity to put down
piracy was thereby considerably diminished. It was
quite plain also that the Hon. Member for the West
Riding and the Hon. Member for Montrose had made a
run at Sir James Brooke.—(" No," from Mr. Hume.)
He was glad to hear it; but it was a pity that the an-
nouncement had not been made before. The point was
this—what was the complaint against Sir J. Brooke?
That he had been putting down pirates. Yet the Hon.
Member for the West Riding said he could not put down
pirates unless he resided at Labuan.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME—The Hon. Gentleman had charged him
with having made a run against Sir James Brooke. But
shat he had done was only to make a run against the
murders which had been committed upon a coast where
there was no pirates.
Mr. STUART—Oh, then, the Hon. Member accused
Sir James Brooke of committing murder, but did not
make a run against him.—(Laughter and cheers.)
Sir B. INGLIS thought that parliamentary language
had never been carried so far as when the Hon. Member
permitted himself to state, in reference to a person who
was honoured by the confidence of the Crown, and en-
trusted with important functions at a great distance from
England, that that person had from beginning to end
been an impostor. Yet the Hon. Member who said this
thought it enough to observe that he had made no run
against him. With reference to the charge that Sir
James Brooke would have been willing to sell Sarawak
to the Dutch or the French, it should be recollected that
he had already volunteered its sale to his own country.
The vote was agreed to, as were also
30,0001. for the support of captured negroes and I.bc-
rated Africans. _ _ .

• 4.411,..,• • ••-••••......
16,3501. fur salaries and expenses of the mixed c=-
mission for the suppression of the slave trade.
On the vote of 155,4861., for consular establishments
abroad be;ng proposed,
Mr. COBDEN drew attention to the fact that the con-
sular establishments at the ports of Ningpo and Foo-
chow Foo were useless, there being no trade carried on
by Englishmen at either of these ports. He moved that
the vote be reduced by 4,322!.
Mr. CAYLEY seconded the motion.
Lord J. MANNERS—Did the Hon. Member propose
to reduce the salary of Dr. Bowring?—(A laugh, and
Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp.)
Mr. COBDEN—What he proposed to do was to abo-
lish the two consulates altogether, because there was no
trade at either of them.

Lord J. MANNERS repeate3 his question.
Mr. COBDEN—Dr. Bowring was at Hong-Kong.
Colonel SIBTHORP doubted the sincerity of the Ho-
nourable Member for the West Riding in proposing
these reductions, and complained of him as " straining
at gnats and swallowing camels." He did not approve
of such underhand proceedings. Whenever he at-
tacked the Government he did it openly. What was
this motion of the Honourable Member but a " flash in
the pan"—what but a blank cartridge? It was no real
ball cartridge that would knock 'ens over —(Laughter )
It was only what Ea? termed " tickling them on the raw".
—barking, but afraid to bite.—(Laughter.) Let them
pursue a manly course—rake 'em lore and aft, and not
content themselves with firing a blank cartridge at them.
He would not, therefore, divide with the Hon. Member,
but support the Government against such mean, cunning,'
and underhand proceedings.
Mr. PLOWDEN hoped that the Government would
pause before they came to a vote upon this subject.
When the East India Company had a monopoly oi the
Chinese trade they endeavoured to obtain their tea from
Foo-chow-Foo, from which the teas came pure and un-
adulterated, and were brought down to Canton in sixteen
days, whereas by the ordinary route the time occupied
was about 43 days. Sir H. Pottinger, knowing the ad-
vantage of such a trade, made excellent arrangements
with a view of obtaining it. It was, however, a source
of much regret to us that we had no trade there now,
notwithstanding which it was must desirable to keep up
a consular establishment there.
Lord PALMERSTON said that if these two consular
establishments were in any other part of the world, he
would hive no hesitation in having them abolished at
once. It was quite true as the Hon. Member for the
West Riding of Yorkshire observed, that hitherto our
attempts at advancing our commerce in these ports had
been unsuccessful; but considering tha peculiar circum-
stances of China and the facts alluded to by the Hon.
Member opposite; considering that if these consulships

were once withdrawn they could not he easily repl iced
—all these circumstancea co:-,tributed to make it desir-
able for us to pause before we decided in favour of their
abolition. The question had, boivever, occupied eur at-
tention during the two )ears. It was fully discussed
by us last year, and lie had stated then that he would
enter into communication with Mr. Bonham and other
competent persons in China with the view of seeing
whether any other ports could be obtained
from the Chinese Government as a substitute for
these two ports. These communicatioas had been
since going on, but they had not been as yet attended
by any saisfactory results. Ile had this very month
received from the Chinese Associatio❑ of London a
letter reporting a communication from the Chamber of
Commerce of Canton, in which it was stated that they
thought it would be most unadvisable for us to abindon
Foo-chow-Foo, inasmuch as attempts were being made by
the gentlemen that had gone to Foo-chow-Foo to esta-
blish a commercial intercourse with us, or to obtain
from the Chinese Government permission to establish
some other ports in lieu of them, and they pointed to a
certain northern port as one that would iu every respect
be most advantageouF. He immediately sent out instruc-
tions to Mr. Bonham to see whQther arrangements
could be made to bring about so desirable a result. It
was no doubt a great disappointment that communica-
tions with Fo-chow-Foo could not be secured, for there
could be no difference of opinion as to the importance of
the place. Its immediate proximity to the black tea
countries rendered it a most important .port. Under
these circumstances be thought it worth while to retain
theo3 establishments for the present.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SCOTT hoped that the lion. Member for the
West Riding of Yorkshire would take the sense of the
Committee upon his amendment. Canton and Shanghae
were the two principal seats of our commerce in China,
but Ningpo and Foo-chow-Foo were not places for our
trade at all.

Mr. HUME asked the Noble Lord to state what was
the nature of those commercial restrictions to our trade
at Foochow-Foo, and whether they were likely-to be re-
moved.

Lord PALMERSTON said he apprehended that
there restrictions must be restrictions in the interior, of
which we have every reason to complain. The autho-
rities of the placo had imposed n heavy duty on our im-
ports, which seriously affected our commerce there. We
made representations against this proceeding, but with-
out receiving any satisfaction. _

Mr. SPOONER said it was admitted that Hong-Kong
was give❑ up by our Government as a place of trade.
There was therefore no reason for keeping up our expen-
sive establishments in these ports, and he had no hesi-
tation in agreeing with the amendment proposed by the
Hon. Member for the West Riding.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Honourable
Member had misunderstood him if he supposed that he
(Lord Palmerston) had said that Kong-Kong was without
any trade. He had said that its chief value was cer-
tainly not in its being a trading place, although there
was a large shipping trade carried on there. Last year
293,000 tons of shipping entered Hong-Kong.
Mr. HUIIE hoped his Hon. Friend the Member for
the West Riding of Yorkshire would not press his
amendment to a division. _ _ _

Sir W. JOLLIFFE said that the consuls in China bore
no proportion in point of expense to consuls in other
parts or the world. In tie two cases immediately under
consideration they were absolutely sinecures.
Mr. V. SMITH said that the Hon. Baronet was much
mistaken. Oar consuls in China were not paid higher
salaries there than in any other parts of the world. The
salaries were exactly on the same scale, and were regu-
lated in proportion to the difference of living in the se-
veral countries.

Mr. CAYLEY was understood to say he thought that
the opinion of the Noble Lord was satisfactory.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to ask what was the
meaning of having an assistant when there was nothing
to do for the principal?
Mr. V. SMITH said that the assistant was of as much
use as the principal.—(Loud laughter.)
Mr. COBDEN said, after the explanation of the Noble
Lord he would not press his amendment.
Mr. SPOONER objected to the withdrawal of the
amendment.

The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... 34
Against it ... ... 166
Majority against the amendment —132
Mr. BRIGH r asked for some explanation respecting
the item of 5,0001., the moiety of the charges for churches
and burial-grounds.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that under the Consular
Acts, when the English community in any place abroad
subscribed a certain sum for those purposes, the Go-
vernmmt granted a corresponding sum.
The vote was then agreed to, as also was the vote of
16,8001., charges and expenses of foreign missions.
The next votes were— _

108,768/. for superannuations and allowance;, and com-
pensation to the families of persons employed in the public
service.

3,750/. for the relief of Corsican emigrants.
2,0001, for the Vaccine Establishment.
1,0001. for the Refuge for the Destitute.

Ou the vote 5,3461. for the Polish refugees,
Mr. B. COCHRANE considered this a most absurd
vote, and wished to know whether it was decreasing in
amount?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
vote had been reduced gradually to the amount of 5,000/.
in the course of a few years.
Lord PALMERSTON trusted the Hon. Member
would not oppose the grant, as the parties receiving these
allowances were objects of great sympathy, and it had
been paid for a very long time.
After a few words from Sir W. JOLLIFFE, the vote
was agreed to.
The next vote was 3,618/., being miscellaneous allow-
ances, formerly paid out of the civil list and hereditary
revenues of the Crown, and not otherwise provided for
by Parliament.
Mr. C. LUSHINGTON, pursuant to notice, moved
that the voted be reduced by the amount of 1,695/.,
being the amount proposed to be paid to Dissenting
ministers. The Dissenters looked upon the vote as an
insult. It was a miserable dole, amounting in some in-
stances to not above 20s. a head.

Mr. Alderman KERSHAW supported the amendment,
and trusted the Government would withdraw a grant that
was most offensive and insulting to the feelings of the
Dissenters. The Dissenters of England contributed
among themselves for the relief of their distressed
ministers 8,1001. a year, therefore they did not need or
desire the paltry grant under consideration. He hoped
the Noble Lord would take the subject into his consider-
ation before the next session of Parliament, and endea-
vour to relieve the Dissenters from this degradation.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
grant had gone on since the reign of George III.; and
though it was not perhaps needed in large manufac-
turing towns, it was needed elsewhere. Dr. Reece's evi-
dence showed that there were a great number of appli-
cants for relief; and that its withdrawal would be a great
calamity.
Mr. BRIGHT said the statement of the Chancellor of
the Excht quer was calculated to mislead the House. So
far as he (Mr. Bright) was aware, there was not a single
congregation in the kingdom which desired its minister
to be in receipt of this grant. It was a grant of " secret
service money," distributed by some gentlemen of
" average respeetability"—(Laughter)—who returned
no names, and gave no account to the public of the ex-
penditure. The grant was calculated to create dupli-
city among Dissenting ministers and suspicion of their
ministers among Dissenting congregations. The Dissent-
ing bodies would willingly supply the amount of the
grant to each minister, if they only knew the individuals
to be in want; the secrecy of the distribution, however,
prevented them from acquiring that knowledge. On the
part of the Dissenters ot England, he called on the Go-
vernment to withdraw this grant, and, on the ground of
economy, he asked lion. Gentlemen on the other side of
the House to support the motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said,lit was to be recollected that
about 300 dissenting ministers received this money,
which was of great assistance to them, and therefore the
vote could not be withdrawn without injury to those in-
dividuals. It did seem extraordinary that since 1723 the
grant had been made up to the present time, and he could
not therefore consider it contrary to the principles ot the
Dissenters. He could understand how those who argued
that the State should pay no clergymen would consider
it an additional argument; but, in his opinion, it was an
act of charity, and he could not surrender it to give
force to their arguments. The Treasury trusted the
distribution to nine dissenting ministers, aad he could
not consider that they discharged their trust otherwise
than fairly.

Mr. WYLD said the Dissenters required no charity;
they supported their own ministers all over the country
without the aid of any one.
Mr. BRIGHT said the Government ought to consent
not to vote the grant this year, and they would then see
if these 300 gentlemen would petition for its renewal.
If the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would
give the names, he would recomme-td the Committee not
to divide. If not, he hoped the Committee would re-
fuse the grant.
Lord J. RUSSELL s lid he knew that if he did so
tie names of these gentlemen would be hell up to
o lium.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. REYNOLDS offered to take the 1,700/. for the
hospitals in Dublin, which these gentlemen were so
anxious to reject, and this would get rid of the difficulty.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... ..• ... 72
Against it... ••• 147
Majority ... ••• —75
The vote was then agreed to, the CHAIRMAN re-
ported progress, and the House resumed.
The report of the Committee on the Queen's Message
for making a provision for the Duke of Cambridge and
the Princess Mary was brought up.