The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-13 00:00:00

MN

non, which was, that the Government should ascer-
tain the rie,hts of irelividuels, to those lights which
were termed private." His Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Dundee (Mr. Duncan) knew well that a stronger
care was never made out on behalf of the shipping in-
terest; and yet to this hour evils of which they cum-
complained rt aim. d were dreseed.—(Hear.) He would
go further: in 1845 another Lighthouse Committee ,Nas
°Pfoointed, which sat three or four mouths, continued
the inquiries of the former Committee, and recommended
variety of useful and important amendments. But
What had since been dune ? Nothing—positively no-
Hear,Hear, hear.) And the maritime commerce of
the country remained to this hour burdened with those
heavy charges, saving only the small amount of remis-
sion which was made the year before last, and which was
scarcely worthy of notice.—(Hear, hear.) He did not
wish to say anything against the Trinity House ; they
were honourable men no doubt, but they had conducted
theb service ins most extravagant manner, and nothing
!Its be..L
had Leca done up to this time. Ile contended, therefore.
that
o(nuedeeorl,leeting in'ormatiou a Committee was of
Ise i
hear.) With regard to the motion
before the Howe, was there, he asked, a single fact,
huPpusing a Committees were appointed, which they
could obtain but from official men who were subject
to and at the command of the Government? Some Hon.
Gentlemen then in the House were members of the Com-
mittee which sat on tee miscellaneous estimates lest
.ear, they would remember that 60 or 70 official met
,ee
0 examined on that occasion ; and upon inquiry
learnt that of the who number of witnesses
examined, there was not one who did not hold an official
situation. A.t a former period, when the Noble Lord
12a_ade mina reductions, he did net ask the opinion of the
pisouse through a Committee first. He brought forwer 1
tnirle propositions and they were agreed to.—(Hear.) In
17 e Lord h
Noble
manner they should act now.—(Hear ) The
had spoken of the salaries of the judges in
98; he (Sir. Hume) asked him had there ever been a
Committeees to propose an increase of these salaries ?
W -11, if there had not, why should he not come down now
and submit t ) the House such diminution in the salaries
of Members of tae Government as he might think fair
stiocitrejOet?--, (Cheers.)
.He believed a Committee did
a vie nstder the salaries of the Scottish judges, with
Us unite give them an improper increase; but that was
the 37 emnlnittee he ever recollected interfering with
(i4laries of judges. What was the Committee to in-
s ire into? The Government were in possession of all
Lb:
einrortnation; and the Committee could only have
the Pinion of officials, who would confirm and support
opinions of the Government.—(Hear.) So far us
iuttor:
(1810P19walealtiie establishments were concerned, no man
acquainted with them as the Noble
le
s,sd at the head of the Foreign-office, or better
"to n
ceect the necessary reductions in them.—
(11SIer4, rp
i,,11,,ea) The Honourable Member for Bucks
Gentleae") had stated that there were some Hon.
ulen who were unwilling to take the amendment
trause it canes from his side of the House. He (Mr.
to that
dared say they were. But as he often remarked
and ;at "muse, parties were the bane of this country;
eoo'tisVas theinduty irrespective of party to take care and
zerertee a vigilant control over the public expenditure.
was gnu. Friend (Sir Benjamin Hall) had said that this
Niena new-born zeal on the part of the Opposition.
Well
1 admitted
bo that it was a new-born zeal; but hai•
led that that new-rn zeal with infinite satisfaction.—
u lid cheers.) He looked at the object proposed to
int64l.--(Hear, hear.) That object was good—it was to
whtieonduweeere arforntehewesitshaynd without delay, those measures
ilatie
to effect every reduction in the
CienC
nal establishments that was consistent with the effi-
be cf the üblic service.—(Hear.) And ho should
elad to knoliw how many of his Hoc. Friends who
tolvocat ;
eL
(Ch economical reform would vote against thafo—
ears from both sides of the House.) They might
suppose that it was pressing upon the Government. Un-
Oubtedly it was pressine• upon the Government, and it
Wnght to press upon the Government. If Government
ould not effect reductions of its own accord, he must
aPPIY the "screw," if he had the power. The House
Commons must be the " screw." They must press the
novernment to effect these reductions. Not a little
anaredssetehthajebeen resorted to by the Noble Lord with re •
question of the increase of our establish-
teats. The Noble Lord took credit to himself for
Zrig reduced the expenditure during the last two
eal's; but he did not say how he had been increasing them
▪p to that period—he did not say how he had gone on
!ncreasing the establishments five or six millions. When,
ilowever, he came back some two-and-a-half millions, he
Lrill(' exclaim, " See what I have done!"—(Laughter and
ourd cheers.) He admitted the ingenuity of the Noble
d, and nu doubt it would have its influence upon the
oPinlons of those who had not been in the habit of
dwatch
dieg the progress of the national expenditure.
.1 ging from recent divisicns, there appeared to exist a
isposition on the part of that House to reduce expendi-
ture.er ilttadsvinttasit called for in the country by all parties,
and if they did not respond
to that call they would cease to have the support and
eleoansfiecdlence of their constituencios.—(Hear.) Ile: con-
insult
that so far from regarding the amendment as an
_ _to the Government, he considered it as indicating
confidence in them as trusting to the Government that they would make' proper reductions, and if the House
did not approve of those reductions, it would be their
fault, and not the fault of the Government.—(Hear,
hear.) He hailed with delight the fact that
the House was actuated by the spirit of economy
49 retrenchment which had now become so :r9.de-spread. In the existing statethings in
country—(Hear, hear,. from the Country party)-
41,:tWas sure he should see more country gentlemen
f Ing in the course of the present session of Parliament
or retrenchment and economy thee he had witnessed
an
the year 1822. On that occasion they so voted,
and the answer they received was a very large reduction
early 3,000,000/. was taken off at once. He believed
lar a
' -.olllburn was at that time Chancellor of the Ex-
;;,,• equer, and after the vote given by this House the
went honestly into an examination of theud
sub-
11n▪ "i
' and on the table of the House there were to be found
tre volumes which contained the history of every officeevery department of the state, and gave a comparative
t
'.ew with ear 1798. though Governm
of that daythe may de a beginnings the
that was right in itself .
,n t
Ifs, not long before they departed from it—(Hear, hear.)
till the amendment now proposed were carried, it would
otora:ly upon the Government the responsibility of pro-
birtag the reductions. Let them then bring in their
4", and if they went too far, or did not go far enough,
$e
evould be for this House to correct them—(Hear, hear).
Was satisfied that where there was a will there was
waY to effect these reductions ; and thinking that the
amendment was a fit and proper ones) that it was corasis-
;ea_itt:eith the constitutional power vested in this Govern-
-"!nt, and • that there was no information which a Com-
a"ld gather that Government were not already
1,11 Possession of, he should not be one of those who re-
one who had not hithei to been the friend of economy and
retrenchment—(Cheers)'
Government
UENLEY said he could not understand what the
eminent meant by this motion. They did not state
Jett
tehr there should be a reduction or not. The only
oar red beeokce.uld see would be to make another blue book
It was evident they did not mean to make
:y reduction. They could interpret what they meant
raYethey had done. In 1831, they made an ar-
--gement With a judge, who in his office did great
credit to himself and to his profession, by which the
It/d,arY should be reduced from 10,000/. to 8,0001. a year
nature, and they could see the object of the Govern-
twas to keep salaries as they were in 1831. The
anotherehle Lord appeared to depart from this. There was
point which deserved attention. Was this a
tactical measure of reduction? They saw the result
octa Committee two years ago, when the reference was
tieinlipon a few situations, and the Committee in cons*.
th --ee reported, that wheu the inquiry was so limited,
51eY„ could not interfere, but that it should extend to all
j‘trteialrealaries. They could not, in fact, form a correct
dithg..rnent, unless they took a general view of the expen-
reLe. The best way in this case was to throw the
upon the Government. As he had brain
gallto Upon by the Honourable Baronet (Sir B. Hall)
Weete Why he had not moved an amendment which
eec:Cq embody all the subjects comprised in his
Wo ii°ll last session, his answer was, thaS there
Th" he no result in any ordinary space of time.
weepbject was so large, that in his opinion no good
• seel/Aeenle of it should the inquiries that were neces-
get-en: entrusted to a Committee. They never would
thatu tger:ltrt of any sort or kind. He did not believe
eee,„--Nect could be dealt with but by the executive
fr" -"`"ant•--(llear ) The Government could extract
th°ta their servants ;hat no Committee could elicit; and
c %%Ilene knew how and in what manner reductions
pl)4 b 0 made, so as not to impair the efficiency of the
lic aervice. For these reasons he should give his
oePlaort to the motion of the Hon. Member for Bucking-
nanashire.
Henley
IL VANE said that he did not agree with Mr.
lg4eY and Mr. Hume that the Committee would be use-
01a. and that no good would come from its appointment;
t„"er Committees had been heretofore appointed, and had
t--e't been found illusory. On the contrary, their re-
"to, naendations had produced the best effects. And he
thedeved that, with the means of information which the
o,erritnittee proposed by the Noble Lord would have in
possession, they might arrive at an approximate
conelusion very soon, without this House having to wait
that itidefinite period for their report which Mr. Henley
seemed to anticipate. Being of opinion, then, that much
ead would result from the appointment of the Com-
--
I,,;Uee, and that some real, practical, economical reforms
Gould be effected thereby, he should vote for the motion
proposed by the Noble Lord.
4ar• GRANTLEY BERKELEY said he was much
lorprised at the speech of the Noble Lord who had just
the
die
h wn, as he had been a member of a Committee on
b 6 African slave`trade, every recommendation of which
ebeen set at defiance by the Government. He be-
oed the present course adopted by the Government as
on'Y ramie to shelve the question.—(Cbeers from the
torlePouition.) The course adopted led him to doubt the
'lay of the intentions of the Noble Lord in favour
,
a
ononaic reform; and under the circumstances, he
"9.Uld cordially support the amendment.—(Hear.)
theair COCKBURN said that, in his humble judgment,
• Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) had adopted the
Baugh and the constitutional course.—(Cheers and
bluter.) The House of Commons was the proper tri-
,atra to make reduction. They ought to know the
„,Ta of expenditure, as well as the amount of salaries
wasetted by public men. For that purpose a Committee
00 desirable. They would ascertain the necessary
ferllinnY in the discharge of their duties. Take judges,
tO f ,tence; if he was to put their necessary expenses
• upeafil the ancient duties of hospitality and the
Whelties-e °I going circuits at one-sixth or more of their
be eorlaceme, he would not be far wrong, but it should
illightrbeetlY ascertained by a Committee. The same
done 0 9 said of the diplomatic offices. That should be
safariernlY in the most public manner.—(Hear.) Their
rt.:144: pelio;ilgd be fixed permaneetly. They did not act
It ,seta Putting this responsibility upon the Minister.
Minister in a most painful and de
nattton to judge how much should be deducted