The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-18 00:00:00

,„, : APRIL 18, 1850.
'

education for the children of this country in which reli-
gion should be entirely excluded—in which the immorta
part of man should be altogether forgotten.—(Lone
cheers.) To establish such a principle without an abso-
lute necessity would ba a grievous falling off in out
own duty both to religion and the people. I can
imagine that there may be places where such smiler
education may be the only education that is possibl-.
can imagine that, supposing the inhabitants of a parish te
be so divided by religious dissensions as to have come n
the conclusion that it would be impossible even to edmit
the reading of the Bible in the schools of the district
—supposing it to be utterly impossible for them
agree on any one point of religious teaching whatever—
I can conceive that, under such circumstances, the State
might say that, in such an emergency and extremity, it
was better to give secular teaching to the children than to
atthe omit
p possiblers
oc
ph 000 ilt
iionftsr,
sot rmcuocnttithoaeni
contained
oigne the
propositions.
this r.—B(wlEli
hdar i
differ
e rlh eahagra.v)e
jßu
widelyns:
stated. The Bill, I own, appears to me to be as contrary
to all freedom of choice, as little conformable to the usual
liberty allowed to Englishmen on this subject, as any Bill
which it has. been myiurtuns to see introduced into this
House.s--(Cheers.) The couile which this Bill takes is not
a little singular. In the first place, the inspector ap-
pointed by the Committee of the Privy Council, who has
the confidence of the Committee, who may or may not
have the confidence either of the Church of England, or of
the British and Foreign School Society, or of the Roman
Catholic body, or who may have been appointed without
any such testimonials, is to state in his topart,.first,
whether there is an adequacy or an inadequacy of Isecular
instruction in any particular parish.—(Hear, hear.)
And observe it is not stated that he is to go by any
rule in framing thet .report.
.He: is not bound to say
there are so many children, there are 500 children in a
parish, and 100 of them do not go to any school or re-
ceive any instruction whatever. his discretion is far
more unlimited—(Hear, hear)—far More wide, because
he is to state whether the education is adequate, and he
is to pay regard to the effect of any exclusion, whether
arising from the expense of schooling or from the pecu-
liar religious teaching adopted in any. school, or any
other cause whatsoever. Why, it will depend entirely
upon the opinion of this inspector—it will depend en-
tirely on his opinion whether the instruction shall be held
sufficient or not.—(Hear, hear.) The next step, after
the inspector has made his report, is for the Committee
of the Privy Council to issue an order to the overseers
of the parish, directing the appointment of an
educational committee. Here is no option, no choice
for the parish, but immediately to appoint an educa-
tional committee. The educational committee, again, is
to take into consideration the state of the parish, and
raise rates in order to provide gratuitous instruction
solely of a secular kind.—(Hear, hear.) Why, Sir, we
must consider that we are here dealing with a country
in which many schools have been established, schools
which, however they may differ on other points, gene-
rally agree on one principle, and that principle is totally
opposed to that adopted in this Bill.—(Hear, hear.) We
have the schools connected with the National Society,
which require that the children shall go to church on
Sunday, and that the Catechism and certain formula-
ries of the Church of England shall be: taught; and
the Wesleyans, who teach the Bible in their schools,
and likewise the Catechism, but do not insist on teach-
ing it, or anything but reading the Bible, to those
children whose parents object to the teaching of he
catechism. The British and Foreign School Society, in
the third place, which orders the reading of the Bible,
and makes it indispensable, but do not admit any cate-
chism or the formularies of any religious body whatso-
ever. We have the Roman Catholic schools again,
which are under the direction of their own priesthood;
many subjects of secular instruction are mixed with
religion, according to the opinions of the religious
teachers of that large community. Now here we have
many differences. I have stated to you, without men-
tioning the Congregationalists, and various other bodies
in this country, . the various modes of conducting
these schools and the matter to be taught ; but
throughout all pervades this principle, that religion
shall be the principal thing taught.—(Loud cheers.)
Well then, I do say that such being the case, if such
are the prevailing opinions of the people of this
country, it is too much to come with a scheme
which shall 'oblige - the ratepayers of any parish to
subscribe for the purpose of the schools to be
supported or established by this measure, and thus de-
stroy those schools already established by voluntary
contributions, for gratuitous education, which, accord-
ing to many teachers and persons having had experience
in education, was held to be the very best method of
teaching the people.—(Hear, hear.) What is the feeling
which has been excited by this proposition, I will not
saY amongst those belonging to the Established Church,
but others? What is the feeling expressed by the Wes-
leyan committee ? They protest " Against any such
method these united conferences ,feel themselves bound

to enter an earnest and renewed protest. The children
whom it may be deemed necessary se educate in whole
or in part at the public expense are—equally with all
others in more favoured circumstances—immortal beings,
and any system of instruction which does no regard
them in that light, and deal with their highest and
most enduring relations, must ever be viewed by these
committees as essentially defective, and calculated, by its
~missions, to exert a most dangerous influc'nce over
those who receive it."—(tlear, hear.) Sir, I believe
that this is not the opinion of the Wesloyans only, but
the opinion entertained by others engaged in the
great matter of education in this country ; and there-
fore I say, in the first place, with the Hon. Gentlemae
who proposed the rejection of this Bill, do not interfere
with the conscientious liberty of those groat bodies in
this country, whether belonging to the Church or dis-
senting from the Church, but leave them to continue
the education which they have hitherto supported.—
(Hear.) In the next place, as I have said, I think the
education that you would give without religion, though
it might, in extremity, be that which you would permit
in certain cases, must be exceedingly inferior to any
education which admits the teaching of the Bible.—
(Hear, hear,) I cannot but think it would be a great
fault, when you are providing a law for the instruction
of the people of this country, not to inform them of the
great and leading truths of religion; and I think, when
you are teaching moral doctrines, you lose nine-tenths
of the force with which they might be inculcated if you
do not tell the pupil that these are the precepts which
are given by Divine authority—(Hear, hear)—which
have received Divine sanction, and upon which their
eternal welfare or misery is to depend—(Loud and pro-
longed cheering.) But, Sir, when
you shall htive estab-
lished these schools, what can you expect will be the re-
sult? I cannot but think, according to what I have already
stated, that there would be, in the first place, very
great discouragement to all those who are now occupied
in teaching in schools supported by voluntary contribu-
tions. I certainly understood the Hon. Member who
proposed this Bill, when he asked for leave to introduce
it, that the first and main object of the Bill would be the
supporting by rates of schools which alrea'ly exist, and
that any schools which were to be added would be sup-
plementary and in addition to the existing schools. But
I own I cannot reed this Bill without feeling that it is
intended that these schools—these secular schools, are
to be the substitutes for the existing schools.—(llear,
hear.) How are the people of this country, who wish to
avoid establishing such schools, if this Bill were to be-
come law—and you are to suppose the Committee of the
Privy Council agreeing with the plan here laid down—how
am the people of this country who may still retain their
opinions in favour of religious instruction, and their for e
for their old teachers and their established schools, to
which they have
been accustomed, to retain the power
of maintaining these schools, and refusing to establish
others for secular education?—(Hear, hear.) I find
this Bill so framed that there remains no mode of
escape, because it provides that if after the precept has
gone forth—after the edict has been issued to the over-
seers of the parish to appoint this educational committee
—if this committee shall not perform its duty in the
manner prescribed, then it shall be lawful for the Com-
mittee of the Privy Council to undertake to supply the
deficiency, by establishing a school or schools for se-
cular education under this Act, and exercising the powers
given to the educational committee for that purpose.
Why, here is a power given to the Committee of the
Privy Council in these few words to force on the people
free schools according to this scheme, and to frame and
levy upon them such rates or taxes-gin fact, such an
amount of taxation as the Committee of the Privy
Council may think necessary for this object.—(Hear.)
Here is a power, which, I repeat, is a despotic power,
and which I cannot grant.—(Renewed
cheers.) When
the Committee of the Privy Council was established
the Noble Lord who is now the President took especial
care, in writing to me upon the subject, to say that he
conceived the powers of the Committee ought to be
limited to the disposition of grants made by
Parliament for the purposes of education. Here
is a limited power—Parliament making the grant
and the Committee of the Privy Council disposing of it
according to rules and regulations which are laid before
Parliament, and if Parliament makes no grant their
power entirely ceases. Bat according to this Bill a
power of taxation is given to the Council which, even
though the calculation of my Noble Friend the Member
far Bath should prove unfounded—even though the
amount should be 1,000,000/. instead of 3,000,000/.
sterling, is still an enormous power to confer, especially
when not asked for by any parish, when not desired
even if not objected to—by the people--(Hear, hear.)
Seeing, then, that the Bill is so framed, certainly in a
manner different from what 1 had originally expected,
and certainly in a manner which I cannot believe
will be in conformity with the opinions or wishes of the
people of this country, I feel myself compelled to
give my vote for the amendment moved by the
Honourable Member for Northamptonshire.—(Cheers.)
I must again repeat, that I do not think the means pro-
vided for education in this country are such that we
should rest satisfied.—(Hear, hear.) I think it would be
most desirable if we could obtain, before we went any
further into the subject, further information than Parlia-
ment now possesses as to the existing means of educa-
tion, and as to the schools which have been established
since the year 1833, the date of the last full information
on the subject.—(Hear, bear.) I think it would be most
desirable likewise to ascerteiti• where there is a de-
ficiency of education,
if ttias deficiency arises from
want of schools to which parents might send their chit
dren, if it arises from the state of poverty existing ie
the district, or, as the Noble Lord opposite tells us, in
. some insonoes from the employment of children IQ con-

tinuously that there is no time left for education. Infor-
mation on those subjects I think is still much wanted.
If we obtain that we can then reconsider the question;
but that it is one full of difficulties no man will deny.—
(Heir, hear.) When the Right Honourable Baronet
opposite, the Member for Ripon, then Secretary of State
for the Home Department, brought forward a scheme
tor the educ,Con of a limited part of the population
—namely, those connected with the factories—l
certainly thought the scheme likely to be beneficial.
But there arose so much opposition to the scheme that
the Right lion. Gentleman, with all the care which he
Applied to modify it so as t) meet the objections urged
tgainst it, so completely failed in the attempt that he
Alt% obliged to relinquish it.---(Hear, hear.) Groat part
of the objections which arose to that plan, as I heard
from the objactors whom I saw from vat+lns parts of the
country. and from various religious bodies, was that
people were apprehensive that freedom of education, such
as it then existed, would be interfered with. One Di,-
senting minister, from a town in Lancashire, told me of
2,000 children who had been educated by the voluntary'
efforts of the people of that town. He feared that those
schools which bad educated 2,000 persons would be
destroyed by the measure which had been intro-
'laced. These apprehensions, so natural, so wide-
spread. shared by every religious denomination alike
—felt no less by the Church than by Dissenters,
no less by Roman Catholics than by the British
and Foreign School Society—are so wide-spread, so
deeply rooted, that we must be very cautious in any
measure we introduce not to run counter to that feeling,
and likewise, and above all, not to stifle zeal and destroy
and crush voluntary efforts. Sir, that we may by vo-
luntary efforts still do much, and arrive at some scheme
by which education may be still further promoted, is
what I confidently hope.—(Hear, hoar.) I regret that
the present Bill should be such as I think it will be it -
passible for this House to consent to, and in saying that-
I vote for the second reading of this Bill. I de-
clare that my desire for the general education of the
people of this country is not in the least diminished in
warmth or intensity.—(Cheers.) But Ido wish—a wish
once uttered by a Sovereign of this country, above all
things, that we should enable the people of this country
to receive such instruction as to be able to read the Bible
—(Hear, hear)—that they may receive it at an early
age, when they are first beginning to receive lessons in
morality. I wish that the Holy Scriptures should not be
reserved merely as a present to the pupils when they
leave school, but that they should be -the object of their
respect and reverence during their educational career.—
(The Noble Lord resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.)
Mr. HUME supported the second reading of the Bill.
No answer had been given to the statements of his
Hon. Friend who had introduced it, and he trusted the
House would read it a second time. His Hon. Friend did
not wish to interfere with the mode of education at
present in existence, but all that he wanted
was to give the means of education to all.
He regretted exceedingly the course that had
been adopted by the Noble Lord at the head of the Go-
vernment, considering it inconsistent with the rule
hitherto adopted by tho Noble Lord.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD opposed the second
reading of the Bill.
Mr. U. ANSTEY moved the adjournment of the de-
bate to tomorrow fortnight.

Agreed to.
The debate was then adjourned.
HIGHWAYS (SOUTH WALES) BILL.

Lord EJILYN moved the second reading of this Bill.

After some observations from Mr. CAEWIS, the
Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed.
COPYHOLD ENFRANCHISEMENT BILL.

Mr. AGLIONBY moved the second reading of this
Bill; but, on the suggestion of Sir George Grey, the
second reading of the Bill was postponed to the 16th
of May.
POOR RELIEF (CITIES AND TOWNS) BILL.
The second reading of this Bill was also postponed.
LIFE POLICY OF ASSURANCE (No. 2) BILL.
This Bill went through Committee pro forma.
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.

Sir J. DUCKWORTH obtained leave to bring in a
Bill to alter and amend a law relating to weights and
measures.
Mr. TWISDEN HODGES obtained leave to bring
in a Bill for repealing so much of the Act of the fifth
and sixth year of his late Majesty King William IV.,
as relates to the revision of the burgess list in corporate
boroughs in England and Wales, and for making more
effectual provision for that purpose.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of
and the House adjourned.

'GRAND BANQUET to MINISTERS.
In pursuance of the custom which the munificence
of the civic authorities has established, the Lord
Mayor and Lady Mayoress entertained her Majesty's
Ministers at a magnificent banquet at the Mansion--
house yesterday. All the means and appliances which
the residence of the first magistrate of the greatest
city of the world can boast were put forth in honour
of an occasion in the due celebration of which no
party differences are allowed to intrude; and the
good citizens of the ancient city met the first officers
f State if not in the same guise, at least in the same
spirit as in those days when their trained bands de-
cided the fate of many a battle-field, and when the
decision of their Lord Mayor ruled the fortune of
contending houses. The banquet was spread in the
Egyptian-hall with all the display of wealth and
splendour which might be expected in the mansion of
of the representative of the commercial and industrial
wealth of London. The " loving cup" was duly sent
round in honour of the long list of names which Mr.
Harker, the toastmaster, duly enumerated in long
array, and as each toast was proclaimed, a flourish of
trumpets from either end of the hall called attention
to the titles of those whom the Lord Mayor of Lon-
don delighted to honour.
Among the guests of the evening were—Lord and
Lady Russell and Miss Lyster, Marquis of Lans-
downe, Lord and Lady Palmerston,Earl and Countess
Grey, Marquis of Breadalbane, Lady Grey, the.
Danish Minister and lady, the French Ambassador
and lady, Lady Mary Wood, the Netherlands Am-
bassador, Lord and Lady Langdale, Mr. and Mrs.
Fox Maule, Lord and Lady Roseberry, Earl and
Countess Zetland, Earl and Countess Arundel, the
Attorney-General and lady, the Solicitor-General of
Ireland and Miss Hatehell, Sir George Strickland,
Sir George Staunton, Sir Charles Napier, &c. &c.
Messrs. Ring andßrymer, of Cornhill, who provided
the materiel of the banquet, did not omit to furnish
any of those ingredients which are usually called
the delicacies of the season, and it may be added that
the wines were excellent. In addition to such sources
of enjoyment, the band of the Coldsteram Guards
gave their aid in the performance of several pieces of
music.

When we mention the names of Miss Bircb, Miss
Dolby, and Mr. Lockey, with an efficient band of
supporters under the superintendence of Mr. Hobbs,
we have said enough for the excellence of the vocal
department.
On the removal of the cloth after grace, and the
usual flourish of trumpets from both extremities of
the hall,

The LORD MAYOR proposed the healths of " the
Queen," of " Prince Albert," and of " the Prince of
Wales and the rest of. the Royal Family," in succes-
sion, which were received with the customary honours
and enthusiastic respect.
The LORD MAYOR then proposed " the Army and
Navy." Although many years had elased since the
gallantry of either of the services had been displayed
in war, he was sure every one in these times of peace
would drink the toast with every satisfaction.
Lord HOWDEN returned thanks on behalf of the
army. He could not but feel proud at being called
on to respond to the compliment that bad been paid
to that portion of her Majesty's service who followed
the profession of arms, and were serving the Crown
with unswerving fidelity in all quarters of the world.
—(Hear, hear.) He was assured that amid the ex-
citement of battle or the more noiseless dangers of
disease, they could have no greater satisfaction than
that of knowing that their countrymen tendered to
them their thanks and approbation.—(Cheers.) He had
never had the satisfaction of enjoying the princely hos.-
pitality of the chief magistrate of London in that hall
without thinking how nearly connected were military
and civil duties. The former preserved to the latter
the full ability to extend the art of war and peace.
They procured for commerce the enjoyment of her
rights, while they enabled her to march on her
peaceful course without aggression or disturbance.
And, on the other hand, the achievements of military
courage could avail but little, •if unsupported by the
peaceful but solid glories of commercial honour: Such
were the means by which the reputation of the Bri-
tish merchant had been rendered synonymous with
all that was known of honour and integrity. After
two years of continental convulsions and of European
war, the happy consummation of our peaceful career
could not be attributed to any fortuitous concourse of
counsel, but to that continuity of purpose which sprung
from wise and well-founded principle. He thought
they owed great gratitude of her Majesty's Ministers
for the peaceful condition of this country, and for the
prosperity which she so largely enjoyed ; and, with
that feeling, he begged to return to the distinguished
assemblage before him his hearty thanks for the
honour done to the British army, identified as it was
with the welfare of the British people.— (Cheers.)
Sir C. NAPIER, in the absence t f some one better
qualified than himself to return thanks for the navy,
telt that the duty devolved upon him to say how
deeply the honour which had been done that branch
of the service in drinking their health was felt by
him, and would be felt by the navy. Connected as
he had been with that service for fifty years, during
no small portion of which time he had served abroad,

in various parts of the world, it was not at all won-
derful to him that in that great city the health of the
nary was always received with the loudest applause.
The city of London was the great resort of the com-
merce and industry of the country, and he was sure
they would feel that, if it had not been for the British
navy, and for the protection afforded by our fleet, they
could not have carried on, in the same safe manner,

trade and commerce with all the quarters of the
globe.—(Cheers.) With respect to the recent mea-
sures which had been proposed for the regulation of
our navy and marine power, he hoped he might be
allowed to express an opinion, that it would greatly
add to the energy of our navy, and that he trusted
the energy and vigour of our marine would enable
them to compete with all the nations of the earth. At
this moment he might say their navy was engaged,
not only with the known but the unknown parts of
the earth. At this moment there were gallant officers
and their crews struggling to discover a passage
between the Northern Pole and the uninhabitable

land that surrounded it. A private enterprise, too,
had been brought to bear upon that object; and
Americo, in the most noble manner, had sent out to
assist those whose lives were at stake in that service.
lle hoped it would not be long ere they would see
their gallant brethren restored to them.—(Cheers.)
The improvement of the mercantile marine which
was contemplated by the Bill of the Government
would he of the greatest importance to the country.
He thanked them for it, and trusted it would give the
service a greater supply of men—that it would tend
to the promotion of greater discipline, and greatly
improve the captains and officers of merchant ships,
and would maintain sobriety and good conduct in the
service.—(Cheers.) In making these remarks in the
presence of the First Minister of the Crown, he hoped
he might not be accused of indiscretion, and that the
Noble Lord and those whom he addressed would ac-
quit him of any such error in the observations he
had made to them.—(Cheers.)
The Lon]) MAYOR proposed " The health of the
clergy of the United Kingdom, and with it the health
of the Dean of St. Paul's.'
The DEAN of ST. PAUL'S, in returning thanks,
said that so long as the Church lived in the regard and
attachment of the intelligent portion of the commu-
nity, of which the chief magistrate of the metropolis
might be regarded as the exponent, he felt confident
she would live in the support of the people, while
she maintained that moderate, tolerant, and com-
prehensive character by which, longer than any
other Christian church, she had been distinguished.
That character which during two centuries of fierce
polemical contest, and one century of peace, she had
unswervingly maintained, he had no apprehension of
her fall, however the thunder might roll around her,
and clouds charged with the electricity of dissension
seemed to threaten her. He felt as little anxiety for
her as he did, in similar circumstances in the physical
world, for that most magnificent of Protestant cathe-
drals which arose in the midst of the great metropolis,
and over which he had lately had the honour of being
called to preside. He trusted, so long as ho filled
that post, and lived among the citivms of London,
no conduct of his would impair the respect and at-
tachment through which the Church lived, and on
which hung her influence and usefulness.—(Cheers.)
The Loan MAYOR said he was sure the next toast

was one which would afford the greatest satisfaction
to every one present. Be gave them " the Healths
of her Majesty's Ministers," and couphd viith it
"the Health of Lord John Russell."
Lord J. RussELL—l rise to return you all our
most grateful thanks for the honour you have done
us, and those of her Majesty's Ministers present, in
drinking our health ; and, in the first place, I deeply
regret to say that my right Hon. Friend the Chan,
cellor of the Exchequer, and the President of the
Board of Control, are unable to attend your hospitable.
board this evening. In receiving the hospitality of
the city of London, I can never forget the mighty
changes that have taken place with which this city
has been so intimately connected--connected too with
ancient times and early beginnings—without feeling
that we are now, in modern times, beholding growing
up around us the present state of society, and this
vast city, affording room for human growth and civi-
-1 lisation. 1 ttEn happy to perceive that you continue