The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-16 00:00:00

aia
OCI

objected to the item. of 1,574/. for sixteen Queen's
plates to he run for in Ireland. On this latter item
be should take the sense of the House. It was not
right that the people of Great Britain should be taxed
to encourage gambling and horse-racing. He pro-
Posed that the vote should be reduced to 4,8901.
Sir P. TRENCH said the object of this vote was
not to encourage gambling/but to improve the breed
of horses —(hear.)
SIBTIIORP said he quite concurred with his
'ion. Friend who had just sat down. They might
Call this gambling if they pleased, but where was there
taigreater specimen of gambling than the railways of
Lois country?—(Laughter.) He thought the object
of this item was a fair and rational amusement. They
tai ht bet, if they pleased, irs. church.—(Laughter.)
Mr. HUAIE said the sole question was, out of
Mr
pockets money should come for these purposes.
ne had no objection to Hon. Gentlemen supporting
these amusements if they chose to do so, but he
thought this vote was wrong in principle.
Mr. MORE O'FERRALL supported the vote.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority for the vote —32
20400/. was then voted to pay the salaries and ex -
eases of the office of Chief Secretary, the Queen's
each, and her Majesty's Privy Council in Ireland.
° "'ee d
,e 41979/. was granted to defray the charges of the
I of the Paymaster of the Civil Services in
relan.
The sum of 6,2751. was then voted, after a brief
discussion, to defray the expenses of the Board of
Public 'Works in Ireland.
The next vote was 39,200/. for the charges for
lor•
e'
Ign secret service.
. 12/r. BOWRING thought it remarkable that the
-sloe sum for this service had been asked for three
iielars past. It had never varied. He suggested that
Q
sum required for each department should be
specified,
Q
ir C. NAPIER thought the last suggestion a
taltlable one. As to the amount itself, he looked
the Government
it as exceedingly small, and only wondered how
Government could gain their objects at so slight
likiePense.
Ir• AGLIONBY complained that the Govern-
t/tient took no notice whatever of the remarks which
ee" fallen from Hon. Members on his side of the
44°11se.
Sir
• J. GRAHAM observed there was not any
te4l,' of attention en the part of Ministers when a
rtee',lll suggestion was thrown out. As to the vote
re he begged, to say, that when he came into office
found a small balance of this fund had been left by
t: Predecessor, and that balance still remained un-
--liehede---(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
M. WINE said the money then must be ex-
pended by the Colonial and Foreign Departments.
Sir G. CLERK—And the Admiralty.
Alr • OTERRALL said there was a rumour
eier,Y prevalent in Ireland that members of the consta-
obulary force had been privately employed amongst the
fsantry in Ireland to obtain information on behalf
Government, and that they had gone in some
441 lees so far as to manufacture reports of crimes
Sir leh had never been committed or even thought of.
J. GRAFI 1.111 could assure the Hon. Gentle-
/I*n that • wh. at he was not cognizant of any one instance in
leh a member of the police force in Ireland had
11,1 thug employed.
'ofi
e e ret ord ELIOT said he considered it his duty to
, the statement. made by his Right Ikon.
• theellea• Having heard of the rumour alluded to by
most n, Member for Kildare (Mr. O'Ferrall), the
order rigid inquiries had been instituted by the
(Ler of the head of the Irish Government, and he
kelfd Eliot) could declare most emphatically that no
eee„;Praeeeding had ever been entered on with the
'Pere-0'411" of anyoffieer of the police force. If any
me whatsoever WhatsoeYer in the employment of the Govern-
he ''e",should be discovered attempting such conduct,
• visited
assure the House he would instantly be
Mr
with condign punishment.
give rte WILLIAMS thought the Government should
Petid;:°3 "louse some more information as to the ex:
si.llre of this sum of money.
for r It PEEL trusted the House would not press
verde information which it would be most incon-
nou nt to.give.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the
for '!e them had not been one shilling expended but
el'cecessary ends, and that there was not the
Vest ground for constitutional jealousy.
thehe st)next vote was 212,324/. for the expenses of
'GnerY and printing in the several departments of
esee evernment in England and Ireland. The vote
.as agreed to after a short discussion.
PrietY°te of
Ir 4 Ing ,
land.was agreed to for the Queen's
di in e
A
'ote..of 30,000/. was agreed to, after a short
t 1; Sion, to defray the law charges and salary of
.6olieitor of the treasury.
• Yote of 13,3601. was agreed to for loss in gold
oses.oil(fyte,
cciolisn.o.
001.
was. then proposed for the pur-
ee. aetraying certain charges that had hitherto
`ienipPaield out. oe the county rate.
that ' "'ItANC:EI3. objected to the vote. He thought
iiihtegesoemxeerveoieuirnsge ought to to be adopted to prevent the
disagreeableproseeutor.
Judge and
already ref had
duty of acting as
The learned judges
thoue.hise, d behoved so unjustifiable a duty, and
subject° It the House to look to the
After s
Christie 'ec'erne obserVations from Sir J. Graham, Mr.
GO Aglionby, Sir R. Peel, and Mr. Cripps,
\lnta YDS°N thought that there were some ad-
for th`'s in the plan, and that the public had value
eit money. •
hidatiME said that if the public could hear what
the :t Passed they would have a strange opinion of
should nor in which justice was administered. Why
leee:lo there not be a public prosecutor ? It an-
the eed very well in Scotland; for if they compared
litee"llinber of criminals tried and acquitted in Scot-
they with the number tried and acquitted in England,
lee
ssWeuld find that where one got off in Scotland
ettreler six escaped in England, in consequence of. the
11144 manner in which the committals were
8 ?Ile public had no right to be called on
aas6a„ Y this money ; it began,' he believed,
e'u°o/. or 80,0001., and now it was 150,0001. It
'letter general taxation of the country, by which the
Pee %egulated parts of the kingdom were made to
objeeer those of which less care was taken. Another
Ivhilel.°ll Was, that the Government paid this money,
le. e had
not the slightest control over the expen-
lleal'e Qf it
er th • It might be said that this was done
rspeaieda Act of Parliament; but the Act might be
141,14% lel,he measure was one forced on the com-
Ille tro •Ye,toe country gentlemen, to save themselves
heuldb,sunie• If he had proposed any alteration that
lave have entailed any trouble on them, he should
• told
tir!rnereeri I the' practice had existed from time
not Wantaj and could not be changed. But when
of a Iv eu an alteration for their own convenience,
the, qd was said about it. Let the expense
Rtetietil Prosecutions be thrown on the country
444 who were creating hordes of paupers,'
thr, ertAo gaols'with criminals.
Iviemtlepoct,,PS did not think the manner in which
• many the -
were distributed likely to interfere
ha4ell_); iee,„en" of Justice. He did not believe that
eoe'`lcieneelllt persons were ever committed; he
of h.with ree Illany prisoners but he scarcely knew
AtrlonocePeet to Whom he had any strong belief
11,110•Iticee,'
Rafe flight e—,e_'"rtTON•said, whatever the practice
ktte- that it Ler parts of the country, he could
the Ilded tea„l.vas by no means general. He had
te,-th/loeiugh,hetieittelY qinarter sessions in Manchester and
and the practice was not adopted;
ekeWineit the ought to be discouraged. But one mode
grej,ish a ~It,,,c'unt• rates might be reduced was to
increase prosecutor. The county-rates were
Orr Sed by the number of magistrates' clerks
eee person Nu es, 3 charged with the most trifling
81, eclat 2,. Prosecution for a theft of an article
Pee iii;LeWor R.l
`-",) would cost a county from 61. to
thelirre sd. in a ease in which an expensa of Si. was
theelh thereleunting a boy
jaeqetii_glees, nere for stealing five apples,
r,
.T,!'" nothing else alleged against his
e
waes.a sort of collusion between the
trieinerks and the police, in order to obtain
frectue,t,, Feesommittals, in which the clerk's fee was
eet.iner• 'e±? 208., or 21. He was convinced the
public thIS eof the public rates arose from matters
pr'_ If her Majesty's Government appointed
eeutor, it would be a great saving to the
Ex (Hear, hear.)
t.;
eh, ,
....413-LE thought the vote was a reasonable
rro;loyee, 7ells of opinion that when counsel were
tiged :,'ead of shortening the sessions, they ei4tebienenever they were employed.—(Hear.)
iv9;_3r Strian, "_:-; said 'that the fines were no doubt
of to
ereaueeaUct the costs were large, but the fines
.I,hhe e-elteltl37 small, in consequence of the amount
e ete:w (Hear, hear.)
ee;l auk
of as then agreed to.. •
th_tklbraTieut 18,400/. was voted. for the Deputy Re-
er ee
.the Exchequer, and other officers of
k -"lllequer,
of 13,0001.. was voted to 'defra- the ex-
, e(1)) teesiec• uloe salaries of the officers of the Insolvent
"he vor.hileenses f
ef,th
.18,58. 6/. for the payment of the
prison in the Isle of Night for juve-
, wi„ Fveing put,
mowe4_l4_l.AMS objected to several of the items.
,Ifkt 510 prisoners, who cost the country
,tze prisoners, it appeared, did not make
te,lel be4,io• a head. He should like to know what
this nature nature of their business which produced
11,,s•shille,'s !am. He found there were expenses for
te7Otoe",4l,4eild making fires. The expenses of the
ptg,shieete.'_- prison were still higher. In similar esta-
11_1.tohers13, the United States the labour of the
I,lt see aid all the expenses of the prison. He did
`Os se,s4_""Pthat could not be effected in this country
I' mil of solitary confulement bad beers found