The Sun.
London, England, 1868-04-01 00:00:00

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

LISAI64.Lig LARDS- 424 g EVEN

The Loitn CHANCELLOR, took his seat ou th 6.
at fivo o'clock.

The Railway Extension of Time Bill was read.a third
time and passed.
The Indian Railway Company's Bill was committed
and passed.

LONDON COAL AND WINE DUTIES BILL.
This bill was read a socoal time.
THE BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

The Earl of MALMES BURY said that it would be
remembered that some attention had boon called last year
to the business of the house. With regard to the question
of the proxies, he might say that they wore the privilege
of the estate', and the committee stated that it was quits
right that they should exercise this privilege, and he
should therefore move that the following new standing
order bo added to the roll of standing orders :—" That the
practice of calling for proxies on a division should be dis-
continued, and, to prevent this order being lightly sus-
pended, that twice the usual length of notice be given of
any motion for its suspension."
Some remarks were made by Lords Carnarvon,
Ilsdes-
dale, and Lyveden.
Their lordships then adjourned.

ROUSE OF COMMONS—LAsT EVENING
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
THE IRISH CHURCH.

A great number of petitions were presented both for and
against the disendowment of the Irish Church.

PUBLIC BUSINESS.

Mr. BOUVERIE complained that the orders of the
day should have boon appointed to take precedence of
notice of motions on Tuesday. The Marino Mutiny Bill
was fired for a third reading that day as the first order, an
arrangement altogether irregular and unprecedented. if
the arrangement was drawn into a precedent the right
of independent members would be seriously interfered
with, cind the opportunities that now offered themselves
for bringing forward motions.

The SPEAKER said there was nothing irregular in the
proceeding, and there were many precedents for such an
arrangement.

MUTINY BILL.
This bill was read a third time and pAssed.
MARINE MUTINY BILL.

This bill as amended having been considered was
agreed to, and read a third time.
__ _ QUEEN ANNE'S BOUNTY. •

Mr. BOUVERIE postponed the moving for a select
committee to consider the matter until a future day.
IRRIGATION (INDIA).

Mr. KINNAIRD postponed moving for a select com-
mittee on this subject. He did so with groat reluctance,
because 100,000 persons perished by famine a short time
ago, the calamity being no doubt accelerated by tho want
of irrigation.
THE HUSH CHURCH.—THE ADJOURNED
DEBATE.

Mr. G. HARDY then resumed the adjourned debate.
He said the resolutions brought forward for the dis-
endowment of the Irish Church had been placed before
the house by the right hon. gentleman in a manner that
showed how great wits the issueof the conflict. The debate,
as far as it had proceeded, had been carried on with
much bitterness, and it was plain from that circumstance
the object of the resolutions was not confined to the
disendowment of the IrishlChurch, but to an attack
upon her Majesty's Ministers. (Hear, hear.) The
opposition was not confined to or carried simply by hon.
gentlemen opposite, but the Ministry had been attacked
on the flank by a noble lord who himself some
short time ago accepted a seat on the same
bench as himself. He felt it one of the highest honours
he could attaie to sit in the Cabinet of the right
honourable gentleman who now was the first Minister
of the Crown, and in order to do so he could
safely say he had sacrificed no principle. (Hear, hear.)
The present moment, when public business was much in
arrear, in his opinion, was not the proper time
for the bringing forward of such an abstract reso-
lution as that submitt3d by the right hon.
gentleman—(hear, hear) —because the present Parliament
could not pledge that which was yet to assemble. The
question had been suddenly started —(hear, hear)—it
had taken the people by surprise, and h 3 felt
that her Majesty's Government could not be
condemned for asking time before aenatter of such great
importance was decided. (Hear, hoar.) Although
the matter had not yet become fully known to
the country already the rustle of petitions had
been heard, and he felt certain that when it became
more generally known not only would the number of those
petitioners increase, but that increase would include many
members of the Nonconformist body. (Haar, hear.) The
Government had been eondemned for not meeting the motion
with a direct negative—(hear, hear)—bat he might say for
himself that he was not at all indisposed to take such e,
course; on the contrary, he was perfectly ready and pre-
pared to do so. The right hon. gentleman then went on
to comment in strong terms on a letter which the right
hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) wrote to one of his con-
stituents in 180. The writer, in answer to an inquiry
as to his YielYs upon the TrisblQharcb, wont on to ply

" the question was 'so remote that it was quite out of
reason to suppose it would arise for a very long time."
(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") The letter ho had alluded
to lie bad received from the office o' one of the daily
newspapers, and if the right hon. gentleman would
deny that he had ever written to the effect
stated ho would at once withdraw the letter. (Mr. Glad-
stone hero asked for the letter, which Mr. Hardy at once
ii ended to him.) If it was true that thi right hon. gentle-
man had written the letter, he could only say that
the opiuioe which he entertained on the subject of
the Irish Church had not ' be.en very geeerally known.
(Liar, hear.) At all events it was but fair to say
that his new born zeal had only existed since 1865.
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) It might be a ild he was
now descending to personal motives, but he would ask,
were no personalities cast at her Majesty's Government
last night? Why the most envenomed shrifts were aimed
at tteni with most unmistakalle intention. (lie ir, hear.)
lie was of opinion that the resolutions proposed a most
uncalled for attack, and it was one that weali bring
about a state of things few had kid the courage
to contemplate—it would inflict a great wrong
on all those by whom this country was bound by
religion, by blood, by treaty, and by compect. ([leer,
hear.) A great authority in the house in former years
had declared that the disondewment of the Esta-
blished Church in Ireland would make private property
unsafe, and had not events shown how pro arty held by
lay corporations was not by any means secure.
But how did they propose to deal with the
rights of the laity in the matter—Clear, hoar)
it was a lay question. They might pay off
the clergy, but how would they deal rith tl,?se who had
a vested einterest • in these heeds-=' -henry— how
wore they going to compensate those for the interest you
wished to deprive them ? The Government were not led
away by promises, because there was no promise held
out that what they proposed would result in the pacifica-
tion of Ireland, and he begged to ask hon. gentlemen
opposite whether they thought that what they did would
satisfy
.those for whose good it was said all this was
being done. Why, according to the calm
men of Limerick, everything that Parliament did
-would go for nothing, because they would never rest con-
tent until Parliament granted a repeal of the Union,
and the committal of Irish interests to an Irish
Parliament. But he was not to be blinded by the
opinons that had been expressed that the ques-
tion had been brought forward purely for the
benefit of the R man Catholic population of Ire-
land—(hear, hear)—it had been got up purely for
party purposes—(hear, hear, and loud cheering)—and by
party it would doubtless lie decided. But what whore you
going to get by the great sacrifice you proposed ? Were
you going to secure perfect concord and contente
meat in Ireland! If it was so the opposition
to such a measure would most certainly not come from
his side of the house. But such was not the open and
avowed intention of these who brought forward the ques-
tion. He was not prepared to separate England from Ire-
land in religious matters, and would never consent to bo
a party to severing that union of Church and State whose
glorious work it had been to uphold the light of the Re-
formation in the midst of Ireland. The right hon. gen-
tlemen concluded his speech amidst prolonged and enthit
siastic cheering.

GOSCHEN congratulated the house that at length
they had been informed what construction they were to put
upon the Amendment, and what was the precise issue be-
fore them. They now knew what the p'trase "consider-
able modifications" meant. It was clearly not a reforma-
tion of the Irish Church in the sense that the Liberal
party understood a reform to be necessary, but modifier
tions within the Church itself. That being the fact, he
held that it ought to have been stated on the face of the
amendment._

Mr. M`C. TORRENS spoke at some length in support
of the resolutions, and entreated the house to rise above
petty cabals and to quoque arguments in considering the
question.
Sir H. BRUCE, who addressed the house from below
the Ministerial gangway, denounced the demagogism
which stirred up sedition and rebellion among the Irish
people. Let Ireland alone, let the demagogues and agita-
tors be put down, and she would bo peaceful and tranquil.
As to the disestablishment of the Church, it would inflict
a blow upon that, country and upon that portion of the
population which had alwaz s stood by the English
Government in times of difficulty that they would never
recover.

Mr. c_urrErt, echoing the sentiments of his consti-
lurtap-thougla that when an.injvstieo ivas admitted., to
exist it ought to swept :may ; heiEour.Ofiaore, lave
his first vote as merabar for Coventry in favour of Mr.
Gladstone's resolutions.

Mr. Sergeant ARMSTRONG asserted the right of Par-
liament to deal with the question notwithstanding the
provisions of the Act of Union. The Irish Church was
the real difficulty that stood iu the way of the settlement
of the land question. It Was a perpetual symbol of con-
quest and oppression, and the resolutions of Mr. Glad-
stone were a message of peace and conciliation to Ireland.
Col. S. KNOX condemned the resolutions as destructive
of a fundamental article of the Act of Union and virtually
destructive of the Union
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND de
fended the maintenance of the Church Establishment, and
its right to the preservation of its endowments. Contend-
ing that there was no foundation for • the argument that
the existence of the institution was injustice, he urged
that if the principle of religious equality were applied to
the Church in Ireland they would be bound in logic and
reason to apply it also to the Church in England.
Mr. BRIGHT remarked that the impression left upon
the Ministerial benches by the speech of Lord Stanley was
the reverse of comfortable, and that Mr. Hardy had en-
deavoured to neutralise it in a speech which at some future
stage of the debate would probably be answered by the
First Minister of the Crown. There was confusion and
chaos in the house—a Government in a minority, and an
Opposition which was really no Opposition at all, as its
functions were limited to assisting the Government to
give effect to its principles. In approaching the considera-
tion of the Irish Church ho declined to admit that its dis-
endowment would inflict any wrong upon the half-million
of Episcopalians in Ireland. Tho Protestant Establish-
ment had ludicrously failed as an engine of conversion.
It had not made Catholics Protestants, but it had made
Catholics more intensely Roman than they were in any
other country of Europe. Nor had it succeeded as a poli-
tical agent in uniting the two countries, as there was a
considerable party who were in favour of the repeal of the
Union, and anarchy was only subdued by force. If the
Established Church wore done away with the Episcopalians
'would be in no worse position than the Church in the colo-
nies. There was nothing dangerous or terrible in the leap
which the house was invited to take. If the effort were
made the hobgoblin would vanish like "protection," " the
balance of power," and many other things which used to
frighten the Tory party. In his opinion the changes of
our times were the glory of our times, and he believed our
posterity would look upon them as the natural and blessed
growth of truth and intelligence. He did not wish to dis-
lodge the Government from the Treasury bench ; for he
lookedupon the question at issue as far above party con-
siderations. He asked the house to view it in a wise and
statesmanlike spirit. Let them touch the Church, not
with a rude but with a resolute grasp. They might then
pluck up a weed which polluted the air, and plant in its
stead a Protestant Church which would be hereafter an
ornament and a gracelo all who might be brought within
the range of its influence. Ireland waited and longed for
a groat actof conciliation, and England and Scotland were
eager to make atonement. It depended upon the Imperial
Parliament whether that reconciliation should take place,
and whether that atonement should at length be made.
Oa the motion of Mr. Roebuck, the debate was ad-
journed until Thursday.
The other business on the paper was disposed of, and
the house rose at twelve o'clock until noon this day.

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In London the births of 1,170 boys and I,l3B.girls, in all
2,303 children, were registered in the week. In the cur.
responding weeks of ten years, 1838-67, the average
number, corrected for increase of population, is 2,277.
The deaths registered in London during the week were
1,320. It was the thirteenth week of the year; and the
overage number of deaths for that week is, with a correc-
tion for increase of population, 1,636. The deaths in the
present return are less by 316 than the estimated number.
At the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, the mean height
of the barometer in the week was 20'004 in. The mean
temperature of the air in the week was 42.7 deg., which
is o'2 deg. above the average of the week in 50 years (as
determined by Mr. Glaisher). The highest day tempera-
ture was 53.5 deg., on Friday, the 27th of March. The
lowest night temperature was 20.9 deg., on Wednesday,
the 25th of March. The entire range of temperature in
the week was, therefore, 2.8'6 deg.