The Sun.
London, England, 1844-01-22 00:00:00

COURT CIRCULAR.

CHIEF JUSTICE—Let us take down his answer corrected,
and see what it is. What is your answer, Mr. Ross ?—I have
taken a full note of all that I considered important and ma-
terial in that speech ; for instance, I will give you, my Lords,
an example of the sort of notes I took. When I came to a
passage in the speech which I considered material I took it
down ; for instance, there is a passage in the speech of Mr.
O'Connell, when speaking of the Union, where he states that
trade and manufactures had fallen off greatly in consequence
of the blighting effects of the union. I considerei that ma-
terial, and took it down.
COUNSEL—The falling off of trade and manufacture is rather
material certainly for this country.
Judge CaAmrrox—lf I understood you correctly, your an-
swer is this—you took a portion, or part, of the speech, ver-
batim, and other portions of it you made a summary of?—
Yes, my Lord, that's it exactly.
Judge CRAMPTON—Then, you can't give the words of the
portion of what I call the summarypart of the speech, can you?
—I frank] confess I cannot ; nor do I pretend to do so.
CHIEF JUSTICE—In the summary which you took down, I
suppose you put down a catch-word, did you will give you
an explanation of the manner in which I took the notes.
When Mr. O'Connell came to particular passages, I took up
the words he uttered; for instance, he says here, " There is
another bill of indictment against the Government, and he
(Mr. O'C.) also read a letter from Smyth O'Brien. He (Mr.
O'Connell) said the Welch committed crimes and they were
favoured with an inquiry ; the Irish committed no crimes, and
were, on that account, denied their rights."
CHIEF JUSTICE—WeII, Sir ?—Those are what I call heads,
or the summary of two or three sentences, but I did not take
the precise words uttered on the occasion.
CHIEF JUSTICE—WiII you take on yourself to swear, to the
best of your skill and judgment, that what you did take down
contains the substance of what was spoken on that oceasion ?
It contains the substance of what.was spoken, certainly.
Mr. HENN—If I understand you right you have taken a
verbatim note of what you thought to be material in the speech,
and a summary of the remainder of the proceedings. Now,
will you take on yourself to swear, that in the summary you
have taken you have correctly taken the substance of what
RIB said? Why the topics—(the end of the sentence was lost,
as the witness spoke so low).
Mr. O'CeNNELL—Raise your voice, 'Sir ; the end of your
sentence is always lost, for you let your voice fall so short, and
so low, that no person can hear you.
Mr. HENN—I want to know from you, Mr. Ross, if you pre-
tend to swear that you have correctly taken the substance of
what Mr. O'Connell said in the discussion of the topics on
which he spoke?—l have not taken a full note of the substance
of the comments he made, but I took down the heads.
Mr. HENN—Then you did not take a full note of the com-
ments he made ?—No, I did not.
Mr. HENN—Then, can you supply from memory the sub-
stance of the comments which he made use of ?—Yes. I would
be enabled to do so on referring to my notes.
Mr. HENN—Did you not swear, Sir, five minutes ago that
you could not give the comments ?—No, I did not.
Mr. HENN—You swore you could not depose to the sub-
stance of the comments most assuredly ?—ln general I can
swear to the substance, but with reference to passages of the
comments I do not pretend to give the precise words that were
used by Mr. O'Connell.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said there was a preliminary
question to be settled, and on which he was entitled to the
judgment of the Court before the discussion went further. If
the witness said he could give the substance of the comments,
or the language of Mr. O'Connell on that occasion, they had
a right to get it from him by reference to his book and memory.
If the witness was not able to depose to all that was said on
that eccasion from beginning to end, it ought not to be con-
tended that he could not state such portions of the speech as he
could depose to fully, and to give the portion of which he took
the substance. It was a new proposition to say so, and one
that he ventured to assert was not to be found in anylaw book.
They had a right to get from Mr. Ross any portion of what
Mr. O'Connell did say, and then let the gentlemen on the
other side get the remainder from him if they pleased, and not
presume that they (the Crown) could cot get what they
really were entitled to, and could give in evidence.
Mr. HENN—Why, strictly speaking, you could not use the notes
taken by the witness at all, except to refresh his memory ;
if there was a written publication given in evidence they might
read a portion of it, and it would be then for us to use the re-
mainder of it ; but when a witness takes a partial note of pro-
ceedings, he is not entitled to use it. By the strict rule the
witness could examine his notes to refresh his memory, and he
, must rely on that then.
' Judge CRAMPTON—I think you confine your objection to
the short summary taken of the speech by the witness, or do you
extend it to the words that he is really able to swear to ?
Mr. HENN—I object to his entire evidence, unless he has
taken a full note of all that passed, and I therefore submit his
evidence cannot be received.
Judge CaAarrToN—l understand ; that is quite sufficient.
CHIEF JUSTICE—We will admit the evidence, considering
that we are eating in conformity with the well-known principles
of the law.
Sergeant WA R REN —Proceed, and state as fully as you can, from
your notes, the speech of Mr. O'Connell ; and when you come
to the portions which you have not taken fully, or where your
notes are imperfect, state so. The witness proceeded to read
the speech of Mr. O'Connell for a few minutes, and then, ad-
dressing the Court, said, "Now, my Lards, I have come to the
point at which my notes are rot so full—shall I read them ?"
Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—Do you object, Mr. Henn?
Mr. HENN-1f the witness can give the substance and mean-
ing we do not, my Lord. We call upon him to go on.
The witness then proceeded to read—" The Union was not
a compact or agreement. It is not valid. But it is said, that
although it was carried by the foulest and most atrocious
means, that it has worked well for Ireland. I deny
th ,t. From the Declaration of Independence, in the year
1782, up to the year 1799. there never was a country
progressed more rapidly, and I have the authority of Lord
Clare to that effect. Before Emancipation, no man spoke
of repeal but myself ; I always looked upon the Relief
Bill only as the means to an end—but a step to repeal—
and lest that should happen, which has since happened, namely,
that I should be accused of suppressing from the people of
England my intention ultimately to seek for it, I.always de-
clared my determination. In my address to the electors of
Clare, in the year 1828, a contest which was of such import-
ance in effecting Catholic emancipation, I distinctly put it
forward as an inducement to the electors to vote for me, and I
promised that if I obtained a seat in Parliament I would bring
the measure before the house. I have now, for the last time,
vindicated myself ft om the charge of concealing my intention,
and I will read an extract from Mr. O'Driscoll's book, dedi-
cated to the Marquis of Lansdowne." The witness then said
he had not taken a note of the extract.
Mr. HENN—Are you able, from memory, to give the sub-
stance of that extract am not. Witness then proceeded to
read the remainder of Mr. O'Connell's speech, where he stated
that from the year 1800 to 1828 the British Constitution was
only in existence in Ireland during an interval of five years,
and stated Mr. O'Connell referred to various Acts of Parlia-
ment passed during that time.
Mr. Ilearx—Are you able from memory to supply the sub-
stance of what was said?—No.
Mr. HENN—I understood you to say you could?—Mr.
O'Connell quoted several Acts.
Sergeant WARREN, for the Crown, submitted these inter-
ruptions ought not to be allowed.
•Vitness proceeded to read the portion of Mr. O'Connell's
speech, where he relied on the vast falling off in the trade of
Ireland. " There were more cattle sold at Ballivasloe before
the Union than since. There was not one head of cattle ex-

Wncnson, SUNDAY.—Yesterday morning her Majesty and
Isis Royal Highness Prince Albert took their customary walk
in the grounds about the Castle.
The Royal Family were taken for their usual airings; the
Prince of Wales and the Princess Alice in a .carriage, and the
Princess Royal in the neighbourhood of the Castle on a pony.
His Royal Highness Prince Albert hunted with his harriers
at Salt Hill, attended by Sir Edward Bowater, Captain Me),
moll, Mr. G. E. Anson, and the Hon. C. AMurray.
The Duke and Duchess of Buckingham and Sir Robert and
Lady Peel took their departure from the Castle yesterday.
Lady Caroline Somers Cocks and the Hon. Miss Frances ,
Devereux have succeeded the Hon. Misses Liddell and Hamil-
ton as the Maids of Honour in Waiting on her Majesty.
This morning her Majesty and Prince Albert, the Ladies and
Gentlemen of the Royal Suite, and the Household, attended
Divine service in the private chapel. The Hon. and Rev. C.
Leslie Courtenay officiated. The Rev. Gentleman took his
text from the 13th chapter of the 2d of Corinthians and the
14th verse.
In the forenoon the Queen and Prince Albert, accompanied
by the Duke of Cambridge, took their early walk in the pre-
cincts of the Castle.
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent and her Lady in
Waiting, and Sir George Cooper, attended Divine service to-
day in the parish church. The Rev. Mr. Carter (Rector of
Clewer) officiated, preaching a most excellent sermon from the
20th and 21st verses of the 17th chapter of St. Luke.
The Royal Family were taken out to-day.
Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge
and the Princess Mary, have arrived at the Castle, on a visit
to her Majesty.
Her Majesty and Prince Albert, it is expected, will remove
to town in the early part of the week after next, for the open-
ing of the session of Parliament.

His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge arrived in town
on Saturday morning from his residence at Kew. His Royal
Highness left Cambridge House, on a visit to the Queen, at
Windsor Castle.

Her Reyal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge left her
residence, at Kew, yesterday, for Windsor Castle, on a visit to
her Majesty.
A Cabinet Council was held at two o'clock on Saturday
afternoon, at the Foreign-office. The Ministers present were
Sir Robert Peel, the Duke of Wellington, Lord Wharncliffe,
the Duke of Buccleuch, Earl of Aberdeen, Lord Stanley, Sir
James Graham, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Earl of
Haddington, Earl of Ripon,Gladstone, Mr. Sir H. Hardinge,
and Sir E. Knatchbull. The Council broke up soon after
five o'clock.
Sir Robert and Lady Peel arrived at their residence in White-
hall-gardens on Saturday morning, from a visit to her Majesty,
at Windsor Castle.
Mr. J. S. Brownrigg, Governor of the Australian Agricul-
tural Company. had an interview with Lord Stanley on Satur-
day at the Colonial-office.
The Governer of the Bank of England and the Deputy-Go-
vernor had an interview with Sir Robert Peel and the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer on Saturday.
Dispatches :were received yesterday at the Colonial-office
from the Governor of New South Wales.
Sir James Graham visited Sir R. Peel on Saturday.
Lord Melgund arrived at Farrance's Hotel, Belgrave-street,
oil Friday.
Mr. and Mrs. Vivian also arrived on Friday at Farrance's
Hotel.
IRELAND,

THE STATE TRIALS.

FIFTH DAY.

(FROM OUR OWN REPORTERS.)
DUBLIN, FRIDAY, JAN. 19.
COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH.
THE QUEEN V. DANIEL O'CONNELL AND OTHERS.
The Court sat this morning at ten o'clock.
Mr. O'Connell, attired in the bar costume of a Queen's
Counsel, entered Court shortly before ten, and took his seat in
the inner 133. r.
The other two traversers were also punctually in attendance.
The jury having been called over, and answered to their
names.
Mr. Ross, whose evidence occupied a considerable portion of
yesterday, was again called and examined on the part of the
Crown by Sergeant Warren—He deposed that lie was
present at a meeting of the Repeal Association, which
took place on the 28th of August ; that meeting was at-
tendeal by three of the traversers—Mr. O'Connell, Mr.
John O'Connell, and
.Mr. Ray ; witness has a note of Mr.
O'Connell's speech on that occasion, in which he adverted
to a plan which he had introduced at some previous meeting,
for the reconstruction of the Irish Parliament.—(Read the ex-
tract in question from Mr. O'Connell's speech.) Has not in
his notes a copy of a letter read that day from Mallow, but
thinks he has a detailed manuscript copy of it. This manu-
script was written partly at tha Association, and partly from
my notes.
Look and see if you have a letter dated from Mallow, and
purporting to be written by Richard Barnet Barrey, which
was read at that meeting.
Witness (reading from his short-hand notes)—Mr.
O'Connell observed, on reading a letter containing subscrip-
tions that alluded to the Queen's speech, " that the speech
from the Throne was merely a Ministerial production, and
deserved to be characterised, as it was by the Morning
Chronicle, as the essence of stupidity." He then adverted
to the plan he proposed at the last meeting for the constitu-
tion of the Irish Parliament, and he said he would take up as
the basis of it the census returns of 1831, which could not be
supposed to have been framed for any purpose connected with
the repeal of the union. He was disposed to adhere to that
census, except where it was mentioned that some error existed
in the details. He had received a letter from Mallow—
.‘..r. Sergeant WARREN—That's what I want. Where is
that letter ?—I have not a copy of it ; it is not here.
Sergeant WARREN—WeII, we cannot help it. What did Mr.
O'Connell say in reference to that letter?—He said that he
thought that a fair case was made out for giving Mallow two
Members, and he proposed that the letter should be referred to
a committee, to inquire whether any change should be made
in the plan with reference to that town, which was agreed to
after some further observations.
Mr. HENN—Have you any notes of what you call further
observations ?—I have read them. Witness continued to
read from his notes the speech of Mr. O'Connell, the ma-
terial parts of which are as follow :—" There are many
candidates for the Preservative Association. Gentlemen of
the first fortune and of the highest rank are daily proposing
to me that they should be named as candidates for it ; there
will be no difficulty whatever in getting 100 gentlemen.
I am speaking entirely by anticipation. We must keep
within the letter and spirit of the law. I am not at present
prepared, nor do I think it necessary, to open the scheme of
the Preservative Association • but I am working out my
plan for the constitution Of the Irish House of Com-
mons, when it shall be established by Act of Parliament,
or by the exercise of the prerogative of the Crown.
lam working slowly but surely. lam working for the Irish
nation, and want to satisfy them with my progress. I will give
-

way if any body will show me that I h-avis taken a false step—
the way to avoid it is to proceed gradually, and therefore I will
confine myself to the appointment of Repeal Wardens."
Were you present at the Association on the 29th of August,
the following day ?—Yes.
Now, will you look at, your notes, and say how many of the
traversers were present ?—I have none but Mr. O'Connell on
my notes.
Did Mr. O'Connell, upon that occasion, say anything on that
part of the Queen's speech relative to her determination to
maintain the union between England and Ireland ? He. said,
" It is now my duty
Mr. HENN—Is that the beginning of his speech? Wit-
ness—lt is.
Mr. HENN—Did you take full notes of what occurred at
that meeting, and the one before it ?—I took a full note of
various matters that occurred.
Mr. HENN—Where is that note ? I have not a full note of
all that occurred. If you will allow me I will explain.
Mr. HENN-4 would rather you would answer me. Did
you take full notes of such portions as you thought material ?
—Yes.
Have you those notes here?—Yes.
Those are the short-hand notes ?—Yes.
Mr. HENN (addressing the Court)— I respectfully submit
that he is not at liberty to use those notes.
Sergeant Waa.a.EN—Mr. Henn, my Lord, is under a mis-
conception.
Mr. HENN—Pardon me, I am not.
Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—What is the exact effect of what
the witness has said?
Mr. HENN—He said he did not take full notes of all that
passed at that meeting, but only such portions as appeared to
him to be material. I submit that he is not to be a judge of
materiality, and that he must have the whole proceedings on
his notes in order to give evidence on any part.
Sergeant WARREN—I will leave it to the Court.
CHIEF JITSTICZ—H the witness swears that he gives the
substance of what was :o spoken, according to the best of his
skill and judgment, the Court will admit that evidence—other-
wise no note could be admissible that the witness was not able
to swear was literatim et verbatim.

I ported then for every 800 exported now. The Irish people
consumed them, and did not export food. He took the trou-
ble to look over Lord Brougham's speeches, and Mr. O'Con_
nell referred to several passages. Also the report of the Poor-
law Commissioners—number of destitute poor in Ireland-.
comparative number of Protestant and Roman Catholics—that
the Welsh, who committed crime, were much better
treated than the Irish, who committed none. He
proceeded to give a summary of the conduct of
Ministers during the last session of Parliament, which
closed NS ith a speech of an extraordinary nature, and said
he was greatly pleased with the Morning Chronicle, which
he was not generally in the habit of being from the way in
which it described the speech. It stated the speech was the
very essence of stupidity or impudence, he forgot which, for his
part, he thought it contained both. He would not banish the
impudence from the stupidity, or the stupidity from the impu-
dence, but rather have both combined. He denied any inten-
'ion of speaking disparagingly of the Queen. He separated
her acts from those of her Ministers. Kings condescended to
scold and Queens to speak hastily of him. He called a Minis-
terial speech base, bloody, and brutal, and he never retracted
what he had said. The present was a Ministerial speech. They
could not help giving it utterance. But he blamed the Minis-
ters for not having advised the speech to be given by commis-
mission, and not have compelled her Majesty to speak it. But
she could have expected no better from them. At the very
commencement of her reign the vilest insinuations issued
frees their villainous press. A dropsical complaint of one
of :the ladies of her Court gave rise to statements which out-
raged every feeling dear to a child or woman, and which he
would not venture to repeat in the presence he was in. Did
they not inflame the mind of the English public, until a mis-
creant thought he would be doing a good act to shoot the
Queen? He loved the Queen, the object of his kindliest
affections, and, consequently, with his station, felt towaids her
the tenderness of a parent. He thought it was cruel towaxds
the people of Ireland to disturb the affection they entertained,
by making the Queen utter this speech, and make them be-
lieve they never trusted the English, but were deceived.. If
they had given the speech by Commission, he would not blame
them ; but all should recollect this was not the speech of the

Mr. HEWN—We don't require liberatim et verbatim ; but Queen, but the Ministers ; but there was nothing in the speech
we require the substance of all that passed, and without the to retard, on the contrary, it should rather stimulate their ex-
whole he is not entitled to give evidence of any part. ertions. They had now the additional motive to rescue their
Sergeant WARREN—That is certainly the most novel posi- beloved Queen from the hands of those Ministers. He be-
tion I ever heard asserted. lieved if it had not pleased God to give her a family, her life
Mr. Justice Bee:row—Suppose that no note had been taken was not safe among them. The Queen's family had this
at all, but that a witness came to give evidence of certain peculiar merit, that they stopped the irregular ambition of
things he heard said, would nut that be admissable although one who it was frightful to think would come to the throne.
he might not recollect every word? Nature had placed their innocence as a barrier against the
Mr. Justice CR.AMPTON—Aye, or every sentence ? worst calamity that could be inflicted on the nation. Oh I
Mr. Justice Buserow—lf the witness was present at a time thank Heaven, there is that security against the worst evil that
when particular expressions were made use of by particular could possibly happen. We have a double motive for our
persons, surely that would still be evidence? exertions—to rescue the Queen from those miscreants, and
Mr. HEWN—That would be a very different thing, for in our country from tyranny. We have the two highest motives
that case we might examine his memory; but, if a person that can give energy to human action, love of country and al-
goes deputed, as the witness announced he was, by the Govern- legiance to a woman. Rally, then, with me, and hurra for the
ment, and takes notes, he ought to be able to produce them— Queen. I now come to the Ministers' speech, and Peal, Wel-
not garbled extracts. We are entitled to the whole of what lington, Stanley, and Graham. What a scene for the com-
passed at that meeting, and not to part. queror of Waterloo, with the Queen in his hands, to make such
Sergeant WARREN—The witness has said that he took a a speech to Parliament. She is made to whine out something
full note. half-piteous and half-imploring about the zeal of her subjects.
Mr. HENN—IIe has said that he took notes of such portions The Queen is made to say, I have done something for the good
as he thought material. of the Church, about being unable to do more, and leaving the
Sergeant WARREN (to witness)—Have you taken a note, to rest to the zeal of her subjects. The Duke of Wellington, if
the best of your skill and judgment, of Mr. O'Connell's speech poor Napoleon had been alive to witness his defeat (then H-
on that occasion?-- I have. I believe I have the entire. I lowed some references to the Church of Scotland and
can always tell when I have taken a thing consecutively, and the disturbances in Wales). It is my opinion that
when I have taken only the heads of the subject; the Govern- the Legislative Union is inconsistent with any good
went accepted my services on one condition. object whatever—that instead of being essential to
Mr. HENN—Now, don't make a speech. I object, my the strength and stability of the empire, it tends to
Lord, to this witness going on. He swears he did not take all produce weakness and decay—that instead of being a bond of
of the speech.
connexion between the two countries, it is the very thing which
Sergeant WARREN—If Ido not mistake, he swore he had puts the continued connexion in jeopardy. Circumstanced as
taken a full note. •
Ireland is, I am perfectly convinced that if the union is not
Mr. HEWN—Pardon me--
repealed by legal and constitutional means, and above all, if it
Mr. O'CoNNELL—Let Sergeant Warren ask the question does not take place during my life-time, the result will be a san-
again.
guinary struggle for perpetual separation, and God forbid that
Sergeant WARREN (to witness)—Have you taken the entire any unjustiCable means should be used. Ido not say this is a
of that speech ?—I know I have, because it's all consecutive. natural or unavoidable result ; all I say is, while I live I hope
Mr. HENN—AII consecutive !
my countrymen will not despair. As long as I live, at least, I
Witness—l can always tell when I have taken only a branch will struggle legitimately and constitutionally ; and I bequeath
of a speech. to those who follow me their own course of proceeding. He
Witness then took up a bundle of notes. concluded by a motion for a committee to prepare an address to
Mr. HENN—Now, tell me are those full notes, or loose ab- be placed before the Queen and all her subjects.
streets, in them ?—I cannot depose to a fact of which I know Sergeant WARREN—Was the motion agreed to ?—Yes.
nothing.—( Roars of Laughter.) Have you taken a memorandum of any
approbation or disap-
The witness, in reply to Sergeant WARREN, said I have probation of any part of that speech ?—No. I was present at
not as yet seen my notes at all. so that there may be a blank a meeting of the Association on the 4th of September. Mr.
in them, or there may not be a blank in them. O'Connell, Mr. Ray, Mr. John O'Connell, and Mr. Steele,.were
Sergeant WA KREN—Leok at your note-book, and say if you present. Mr. O'Connell spoke at the meeting.
have taken an entire note of Mr. O'Connell's speech on that The witness then commenced reading his note of what Mr.
occasion or not ? ( The witness looked at his ot
O'Connell
notebook
some time and said)—[ don't think I have a full note.book for
of all to the meeting which was to take place at Clontarf on the tati
that occurred that day ; but I have taken such a note as enables of October and to the prospects of success for the repeal. He
then referred to the Queen's Speech, and the effect which it
me to give a description of it.
Sergeant WA RREN—I submit, my Lord, we are entitled to produced on the Irish mind. The Ministers dared rot to make
have this evidence, and it will then be for the jury to say how that speech till the end of the session, when it could best be ex-
the will receive it. posed to view. A weak and miserable Ministry was incapable
y
Judge PERRI sr—Did you observe the last answer the witness lof resorting to ant other advice. He congratulated the people
has given?—He says he did not take a full note of the ofen the increrse the repeal feeling among them, and also on
speeeb,but such a note as would enable him to give a description. I the symptoms that were apparent of a better temper among the
Mr. HENN—And !submit that is not evidence, because he high-flying Orangemen of the INorth mentioned the
cannot say anythlng except what is in his notes, and he admits , surprise he felt at seeing a sensible letter with the name of
to did no' take a full note of the speech.

t Londonderry attached to it. He denied that the Speech from
/ the Throne was the personal speech of the Sovereign—it was
not a personal speech at all ; it was no more the Queen's
speech than it was his (Mr. O'Connell's), and he was not very
likely to pronounce a speech of that kind. The suggestion
contained in that Speech was grossly disloyal ; it was disloyal to
represent the Queen to the people of Ireland as hostile to their
liberty.. He then called attention to the letter in the Morning
Chronicle, signed '• One Who Whistled at the Plough," from
which he read extracts. He pointed out the injury done to the
Reform cause in England by the physical-force doctrine of the
Chartists, and warned the people strongly against violence of
any kind. He said the resolution for the nen-consumption of
exciseable articles was not yet:proposed ; it was saved for a great
emergency. He would shrink from nothing. He announced
his intention of attending meetings at Loughrea and Conne-
mara in the following week, where he would defy the spies and
informers of England to produce confusion. He then pro-
ceeded to detail his plan of the management of the fran-
chise of the Irish Parliament. He would arrange them in
such a manner that if the Queen chose to issue' writs for the
assembling of the Irish Parliament in six weeks, they might be
directed at once to the respective boroughs. He had taken the
population of the Reform Bill as the basis of his plan. He (Mr.
O'Connell) was anxious that men of wealth and station should
join them (the Repealers). The time was come when Ireland
could no longer be governed for or by a faction. England had
given them emancipation in 1829, but not equality. With re-
spect to the law of landlord and tenant, it had been said by
Chief Justice Pennefather that the nature and intent of the
Act of Parliament was only in favour of the landlord to enforce
his rights. The law never had the interest of the tenant in
contemplation at all. These were the words of a Tory :Lord
Chief Justice.—(Laughter throughout the Court. )
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Sergeant WARPAN—
Did you attend the meeting at Loughrea ?—Yes.
State en what day that meeting took place ?—On September
the 10th.
Who were present at that meeting ?—Mr. O'Connell, Mr.
Steele, Dr. Gray, and Mr. Barrett.
Have you a note of Mr. O'Connell's speech at that meeting?
—I have.
Read it.
Mr. Hann, traversers' counsel—ls this a 'note you took
yourself, and not a copy of another's report ?—Yes.
Mr. Sergeant WARREN—Read it.
"Mr. O'Connell said he regretted that the state of the'weather
would compel him to narrow his expressions of gratitude to the
smallest space. They all knew there was high authority for
saying that it rained on the just as well as on the un-
just. He would wish to give before them the outpourings of
his heart at the splendid spectacle of that day. Connaught
was doing well. He had around him that day enough of physical
force to achieve the greatest revolution. But let them as-
semble peaceably, and Ireland would be again a nation."
Sergeant WARREN —Did you form an estimate of the num-
bers that attended the Lourghrea meeting ?—Yes, I did.
Sergeant WARREN—How many persons, or about how many,
were present, do you think ?—I should say about twelve thou-
sand. I was present at a public dinner on the evening of the
same day. If I said that Mr. Barrett was at the meeting, I
said so inadvertently, and I took the first opportunity to correct
my error. Mr. Barrett was at the dinner.
Sergeant WARREN—State the names of such of the tra-
versers as were at the dinner ?—Mr. O'Connell was there, and
so too were Mr. Steele, Mr. Barrett, and Dr. Gray. I heard
Mr. O'Connell speak at the dinner, and have a note of his
speech on that occasion.
Are you acquainted with the appearances of the traversers ?
—I am.

Sergeant WARREN—Point them out, if you please.
The witness turned round, and, after some hesitation, gala—
" I only see Mr. O'Connell, Dr. Gray, Mr. Ray, and the Rev.
Mr. Tierney."
Sergeant WARREN—Look round and try if you can identify
any more of them ? Oh yes, I see Mr. John O'Connell.
Sergeant WARREN—The traversers ought to be together ;
this difficulty on the part of the witness arises, my Lords, from
the circumstance of the traversers not being all here.
Mr. WHITESIDE—I am rather inclined to think it results
from the circumstance of their not having been all there !
( Laughter.) The Learned Counsel alluded to Loughrea.
Con H.T—Do the Counsel for the traversers admit that Mr.
Duffy was at the Loughrea dinner?
Mr. WHITESIDE—I do not admit that Mr. Duffy was at any
meeting, except, perhaps, an Association meeting.
Mr. I%l'DoNoucH—l admit that Mr. Barrett was at the
dinner, but not at the meeting.
Mr. O'CONNELL—The witness did not say he saw Barrett at
the meeting ; but he said he was at the dinner.
Mr. FITZGIBBON— Unless there be an attempt to dispute
identity, we will readily concede the fact of any of the tracer-
sera having been at any meeting, which, in point of fact, they
did really attend.
Sergeant WARREN—You said you had a note of Mr. O'Con-
nell's speech at the dinner of Loughrea ; pray be so good as to
read it. —( The witness here read from his note-book his note
of Mr. O'Connell's speech on the occasion in question. The
speech commenced with a denunciation of the Tories for having
put into the mouth of the Sovereign a speech, in the sentiments
of which she did not herself concur, for the paltry purpose of
keeping themselves another year in office. He expressed a hope
that wkat he uttered might reach the ears of her Majesty, and
that she would learn that from the accession of het family to
the Throne up to the present day justice had never been done
to this country. )

Witness—Then, my Lords, Mr O'Connell proceeded to
denounce George the First, George the Second, George the
Third, and George the Fourth ; I have only a topical note of
the proceedings just there, and, consequently, am unable to
give his express words ; I only know that he denounced them.
Sergeant WARREN—Go on with the reading of your notes
of Mr. O'Connell's speech.
The witness complied, and read his note, the substance of
which was, that the Irish people had ever been distinguished
for their loyalty and allegiance to their Sovereign, and they
would never cease to be so distinguished, for that their loyalty
was— " True as the dial to the sun,

Although it be not shined upon."
That the Government had commenced by threatening civil
war upon the Repealer., but that the people had not crouched
to that threat, and that the menace, consequently, would not
be repeated ; that the Government had spent a great portion
of the session in forging an Arms Bill ; and that he (Mr.
O'Connell) would get his arms branded in perpetual
proof of the insolence and tyranny of the Saxon ; that
the Irish people, if they were unanimous and did not vio-
late any law, must succeed in obtaining their liberties ;
and that they ought to humble themselves before Providence
for the purpose of imploring that the virtue of perseverance
might be vouchsafed to them, and that wisdom might be
granted to their leaders to conduct them in the paths of peace
and tranquillity into the temple of genuine and rational
liberty, which was fonnded upon religion aed morality. " I
tell the Times that those meetings are the safety-valves
through which the boiling wrongs of thenational soul" (witness
remarks) ' I have lost the next word after soul, but 1 suppose
it was ' evaporate') " into the certainty of success ; they raise
in them (the people) a Divine hope that the days of the woes
of Ireland will not last for ever." The witness continued
to read the speech of Mr. O'Connell at length in nearly
the same terms as previously published, until he came to the
following passage :—" Ireland wants no monarchy."
Mr. O'CowNELL, who was sitting, as on the previous day, at
the table, immediately under the witness's chair, here said,
with the appearance of much astonishment, "No monarchy ?"
—I would make Mr. O'Connell's meaning more clear if I were
to write out another translation from my notes; but this is a
literal translation of what he said. Mr. O'Connell did not
mean to say that Ireland required no monarch, for he says
afterwards, "To the Sovereign we are attached by the most
dutiful allegiance."
This part of the witness's evidence and explanation were very
confused, and rather in an under tone, so as to render it difficult
in the gallery to catch his precise words.
Mr. Sergeant WARREN—Turn to the meeting at the Corn
Exchange on the 13th of September; look at your notes of that
day's proceedings, and say which of the traversers were there?
—Am I to give you an answer founded on my own observa-
tion, or from what I find on my notes.
Mr. Sergeant WARREN—YOU are not bound to omit any
names, if from your own knowledge you can speak positively
of persons having been present, although you do not find their
names on your notes ?—Mr. O'Connell was there. His name
is the only one on my notes; lout I know Mr. John O'Connell
and Mr. Ray were there.
Sergeant WARREN—Refer to Mr. O'Connell's speech in
presenting the draft of the address to the fellow-subjects of
the Crown in every part of the world.—The witness then pro-
ceeded to read the speech, after which he said he had notes un-
connected, of the points in that address, and he read several
disjointed passages, among which were the following
" They say that the English Judges are better than
ours—l deny it." " Such a judgment as that of the
English Judges, respecting the Presbyterian marriages, never
was given on this side of a hot place."—( Laughter.)

When that speech was concluded what was done ?—Mr.
O'Connell moved the adoption of an address to the inhabitants
of all the countries subject to the British Crown, and that that
address be placarded wherever the British Crown had power.
You mentioned yesterday that you had received a manifold
copy of that address ?—I did.
Now read it.—The witness took up the manifold copy and
had read about six lines of it, when he was desired to read
the printed copy of the address, as it would be more easily
perused. When the witness had read as far as the fifth article
of the address, he appeared to be very weak—when
The CHIEF JUSTICE said, this gentleman seems very much
exhausted.
Witness—l will be better in a few moments, my Lord.
.:Age Ca,turrom—Perhaps it would be better for the Clerk
of the Crown to finish the reading of the address.
The address was then handed to the Clerk of the Crown, who
concluded the reading of th: document.
Here the Court adjourned. On again meeting
The direct examination of the vijtness was resumed.
By Sergeant WARREN— Was at the Clifton meeting; it took
place on the 17th of September ; some of the traversers (Mr.
O'Connell and Mr. Steele) were present; does not remember
any one else.
A Juror—Only the two ?
Witness—Only the two. Remembers Mr. Dillon Browne
was there; heard him speak. (Read his speech from his notes. )
He said the men of Connemara had acted bravely in rallying at
this meeting ; that if not so numerous as in other places, they
were few, but brave. He wished Peel and Wellington
were there to see their mountain cavalry ; and he would be
glad to know if the heavy dragoons cou:d follow them through
the mountains. They assembled that day to show their strength,
not to violate the law ; they were resolved not to sully their
conscience at the will of any despot. What he had said of Mr.
Darcy was wafted on the wings of the press to the ears of that
gentleman.
Sergeant WARREN—Did you take a rite of what Mr. O'Con-
nell said on that occasion ? Yes. _ .

Sergeant WARREN—WiII you read it?--The witness then com-
menced reading Mr. O'Connell's speech at the meeting. He
commenced by saying that the present was the most transcend-
ant meeting he had ever seen—that he was now making an ex-
periment, and he wanted to know whether they were not as
brave as the rest of Ireland—whether Connaught was not as
honest and as faithful as the other three provinces.—(Cries of
"We are, we are.") Whether they did not hate Saxon
tyranny as much as any other portion ?—(Cries of " We do
more so.") All he wanted was, Ireland for the Irish, as
France for the French, England for the English, and Scot-
land for the Scotch. The Irish were as brave and more
moral, than any other nation in the world. The battle of
Ireland was to be a peaceable battle, and he would keep them
out of danger. They should proceed in a constitutional
way, but if he wanted them they would come again. He wanted
that every person should pay his own clergyman ; the Pro-
testants could then have what they liked for their own church,
and the more they paid the better. The struggle for emanci-
pation was one for the advantage of the rich; but Repeal would
bring physical prosperity to the people. They were to use no
violence. He came to teach them another lesson from that—
that peace, order. and obedience to the law, were the means by
wivich they would wrest everything from their enemies. If they
had the Repeal, prosperity would flow in upon them, and would
they not give a milling a-year fur this object? Every sergeant
paid a shilling to each recruit, to enlist and entrap him ; hut he
did not want to entrap them, but he told them Ireland shou'd be
for the Irish. He again repeated that no violence was to be
used. His motto was—" Whoever committed a crime gate
strength to the enemy." He could not be doing anything that
was bad when he had the support and countenance of the sainted
clergy of the people, and their venerated archbishops. When
they found him possessed of such support, they did say that he
must be doing some good. Then came the quotation—" The
nations have fallen," &c.

Mr. Sergeant Niraaiiim—Were you at the dinner on that
day ?—I was.

State'to the jury who were the traversers present at that
dinner.—Mr. O'Connell, Mr. J. O'Connell, Dr. Gray, and
Mr. Barrett.
Look at your notes ?—Oh, no, J. O'Connell was not present
I was thinking of Mullaghmast meeting, when Mr. J. O'Con-
nell was in the chair.
Look to your notes of the Clifden meeting?—There were
present at the Clifden meeting Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Steele, and
Dr. Gray. I don't remember that there were any other of the
traversers.
By a juror—You said that Mr. Barrett was present ?—I
was confounding this meeting with that of Mullaghmast; the
only persons present at this (the Clifden) meeting were—Mr.
O'Connell, DR Gray, and Mr. Steele.
Have you a note of Dr. Gray's speech on that occasion?—
Yes. Dr. Gray in answer to the toast said—
Have you a note of the toasts preceding that ?—No ; I have
no note of the loyal toasts. Dr. Gray, in answer to the toast of
the people, said—" That formerly the aristocracy tyrannised
over the people, but the people were now showing the bearing
of men, determined to be free—that he was much struck with
the difference in the bearing of the people then and that exhi-
bited by them some two years before, when he had visited that
place. Let their conduct be firm, and let them flinch before
no tyrant landlord, and where was the man that would dare to
eject them from their holdings because they were repealers ?
Let them observe peace, order,
.and tranquillity, and they
would finally triumph.
Mr. Sergeant WARREN—Have you a note of Mr. O'Con-
nell's speech on that occasion ?—Yes.
Read it.—( The witness here proceeded to read the speech,
which commenced with expressions of delight on the part of
Mr. O'Connell at the majestic sight which was presented on
that occasion. He said that Leinster, part of Ulster, Mun-
ster, had done their duty, and now Connaught was at its post.
There was then (said the witness) a sentence about virtue
and religious sentiment which I was not able to catch. The
speech then went on to refer to the prosperity of Ireland un-
der a domestic legislature. He (Mr. O'Connell) might be
asked why, when having so much physical force around him,
he did not make use of of it? ?le replied that he would use it,
but not abuse it. Its use was legal and moral combination.
There are then, said the witness, the words " poetical imagery"
—(Laughter)—but I have not the whole sentence. The words
are not mine, but Mr. O'Connell's. The speech went on to
express Mr. O'Connell's delight at seeing the thousands and
hundreds of thousands that poured out of every valley to the
meeting. Tbey would use no violence—they would reserve
their strength till they were attacked. But the Government
would not attack them ; the English Government said they
would not attack them. To that statement he would reply,
" Thank you for nothing, says the gallipot."—(Laughter. )
They could not catch an,old bird with chaff—(Laughter)—and
they would not catch an old lawyer with chaff.—(Laughter. )
(The witness here stated that a sentence followed, which he
was unable to catch, and then proceeded.) Mr. O'Connell
then alluded to the reports that had appeared in the news-
papers of the first meeting of the Arbitration Courts, Dr.
Gray in the chair, and the announcement that they would
meet every Friday after. He stated his conviction that they
would work well, and hoped that hereafter he should be able
to apply the principle on a more extensive scale, so that before
long he should deprive the principal Courts of half their busi-
ness. He would play a game that should checkmate the Go-
vernment in time. It might be necessary to go slowly to
work, and that the people of Ireland should continue their
confidence in him, but it was better to go slow and sure,
than fast and uncertain. In allusion to some opinions that had
been expressed in the newspapers, he said he never took
advice on matters of law from the newspapers; he
relied on them for matters of fact only. No country
in the world had an abler or more honest press than
Ireland ; and it was a great proof that they were in the
right road, when they found so much talent in the press in-
listed on their side ; but he could not take the law from them.
He had more projects in his head for checkmating the Govern-
ment, but he should not speak of them. He said further,
that the English Government had done nothing to conciliate
Ireland. They had offered nothing as a remedy of their
grievances but a miserable compromise, giving them what
children called the smallest half. At present his monster
meetings were almost done ; there were not more than seven
or eight to be held. He remarked on the conduct of the
people at those meetings which had been held, and the extract
concluded by an eulogium of the moral and religious character
of the people of Ireland.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Did you make any calculation
of the number of persons at the meeting at Clifden ?—I did.
What number attended ?—Five or six thousand.
Were you present at the meeting of the Association at the
Corn Exchange, on the 27th September 2-1 was.
Which of the traversers did you see there ?—Allow me to
look at my notes. I never was a day without seeing some
of them.

I only ask you as to that particular day.—Dr. Gray, Mr.
O'Connell and Mr. Ray.
Did Dr. Gray make any remarks on that occasion ?—He did.
Have you a copy of that report read by him, or do you know
what was the subject of it ?—lt was with respect to the Arbri-
tatiun Courts.

Is there among these documents (handing them in) a copy
of the report read by Dr. Gray ?-1 have not a copy of
that report.
Were you furnished with copies of any documents on that
occasion connected with the Arbitration Courts ?—Yes.
Hare the goodness to read them.
Witness then read one of the documents. It was an un-
filled up notice that an Arbitration Court had been appointed
for the district of --, and that Mr. hod been appointed
to furnish every information that might be required. It was
signed, Thomas Ray, and printed by Mr. Brown, 36, Nassau-
street.

Have you any other document connected with the Arbitra-
tion Courts ?—Yes ; but not on that day.
Other documents were handed to witness, and from them he
selected one which was read by the officer of the Court. It
was headed by a harp and crown, and ran thus .—" These pre-
sents ate to testify that thelLoyal National Repeal Association
has perfect confidence and perfect reliance on the ability
of Mr. --, as Arbitrator, to dispose of, adjudicate,
and settle, any disputes that may arise in the said
district of --."

Sergeant WARREIT—Have you any other documents respect-
ing Arbitration Courts, which you received that same day?—
At the meeting of the Repeal Association, which was held on
the 16th of October, I got a document which purports to be a
copy of the: rules and regulations to be observed by arbitrators,
awl also by persons in various districts of the country who
wish to submit their disputes to arbitrators.
Sergeant WA anEw—Read it.
The witness, who appeared to be very much exhausted,
handed the document to the Clerk of the Crown, who read it.
It was as follows:

"RULES TO BE OBSERVED by ARBITRATORS IN DISTRICTS,
THE PEOPLE WHEREOF MAY CHOOSE TO SUBMIT THEIR
DISPUTES TO ARBITRATION.
POWERS OF ARBITRATORS.
"I. Arbitrators will remember that they derive their legal
power to adjudicate in any given case, solely from the consent
of the disputing parties, to submit their disputes to the arbitra-
tion and award of the arbitrators, and will therefore be careful
never to enter on any case, until both parties have consented to
submit the cause of dispute to their decision. This consent
should, in general, be had in writing, and the name of the ar-
bitrators, as well as the cause of dispute, should be stated
therein. The consent (which is legally called a deed of sub-
mission) should then be signed by both parties in presence of
a witness. In trivial cases, a verbal consent, in the presence of
a witness, will suffice; but, as in the case of a written consent,
the arbitrators should be named by the disputing parties.
IL—lt is illegal and an indictable offence for arbitrators to
administer an oath. In hearing cases they will therefore not
only not administer an oath themselves, but they will not permit
the disputing parties or their witnesses, or any of theta, to take
an oath, or use such asseverations as may be deemed or eon-
strued into an oath. Neither ought the arbitrators to take any
form of an oath themselves.
In.—Arbitrators may, when duly nominated by both the
disputing parties, decide and adjudicate in all cases ex-
cept such as are called felonies, as theft, forgery, passing bass
coin. and such like.
.."The cases that more properly belong to the province of
arbitrators are such as hitherto chiefly formed the subjects of
expensive litigation in the magisterial and other Courts. Such
as wages, debts of all kinds, disputes between employers and
the employed—including
oladbeourwehrast,eraenrd, mwhecehthaenricsb—y
be
mechanics—
trespass, disputes concerning meanings—claims on foot of al-
leged
edamagessti
contract, or by assault and battery. In cases of as-
sault, the complainant mast seek for the recovery of damage
sustained as the result of the assault committed, and the arbitra-
tors may award to the injured party any amount of pecuniary
extent of t
e their
iw
damages
~
v . _ thatA r
IV.—Arbitrators
termya
tmanyra,ay
are
eheerun
not a
duly
limiteduulsyt recompense.
nominated,oa mi tpnentnse.
any amount of property. In all cases,
jurisdiction as are Justices of the Peace and Assistant Bar-
heriaosswteeesrvseitrl,v9roevihveeijig2ol. a stamp. will be necessary to render the
consent (or deed of submission) an award legal; but in
all cases under that sum, the consent and award require no
stamp to render them binding in law. The ordinary sche-
dule of stamp duties, to be had at the office of every vender
of
or
rmount
exceeding o f s ta2moy. duty
and
the required in
each arbitra-
tors should direct the disputing parties to procure same, and
the cost of same should be allowed, in making up the award,
stamps,, am
caseps,, will
amounting show
the
to,
to the successful party.