The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON,

floe. When the proper occasion for abolishing these
taxes hal arrived, and when the House was in a position
to do so, he would have much pleasure in supporting
any motion that might be brought forward with a view
to their abolition, but he thought it was a dangerous
precedent fir that House to pledge itself in one session
to the expression of an abstract opinion with regard to
what might be done in the next. He could easily imagine
the possibility of its being demonstrated hereafter to the
satisfaction of a majority of that House that there were
other taxes the remission of which would be more bene-
ficial to the public at 'ergo than the repeal of the taxes
in question. Of course, the converse of the proposition
might alto be capable of demonstration, and he had no
hesitation in asserting that, if ho had been put to his
election to say whether he would repeal the brick duty
or the taxes or knowledge, he should assuredly have
given his vote in favour of the latter. On the other
hand, if it had been put to him to say whether he would
vote for the abolition of the window tax or for that of
the taxes referred to in the motion of the Right. lion.
Gentleman, he would not have hesitated to give his vote
in favour of the remission of the window tax, because he
believed that tax,was a most obnoxious one, end lee was
certain that its repeal would be productive of greater re-
lief to the public than the repeal of any other impost
whatsoever.
Colonel THOMPSON observed that the mover and
seconder of the motion expressed an opinion which was
likely to command very general sympathy in that
House when they stated that all taxes on knowledge
ought to be repealed as soon as ever the Chancellor of
Exchequer found it possible to do so. The sentiment
was no doubt a very proper one, but when he thought
of the course which certain Hon. Members who were
supporting the present resolution had adopted with re-
spect to the Stamp Duties Bill last night, he could not
help thinking of the homely and childish proverb which
said that a man could not at his cake and have it too.
—(Hear, hear.) The relief which they had given to rich
men the night previous would render it no easy matter
to procure any relief for the poor to-night. He con.
fessed that he felt a little sore on the transaction of last
night, and must be excused if, in now voting for the mo-
tion of the Right Hon. Member for Manchester, he gave
utterance to an expectation that he would not be looked
on as doing more than expressing a hope that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would repeal the taxes
knowledge as soon as he found it practicable to do
so.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Perhaps he had been
educated in a contracted school, but he could not remove
from his mind the impression that little was to be
gained by attacking a Chancellor of the Exchequer on
any point. He was willing to admit that the present
Chancellor of the Exchequer deserved well of thecountry.
and had taken more steps in the right direction with re-
spect to taxation than any one else who had preceded him
in his office of late years. It was to be hoped that, not-
withstanding the untoward occurrence of the preceding
evening, he would persevere in the right course, and ulti-
mately attain that influence and that position in the
country to which he was clearly entitled. It was greatly
to be regretted that the question of the reduction of
taxaeion should be hampered, as it had unfortunatsly
been so frequently of late, by being connected with the
restoration of the slave trade. For his part, he was unable
to discern any legitimate connexion between them. The
African scpiedron was no nuisance to him. He met it
nowhere. It did not disturb his daily thoughts nor his
nocturnal visions. Hs cheerfully paid his share in the
expenses it occasioned, and would have no objection to
pay still more if the laudable object for which it had
been established could be realised.—(Hear, hear.) He
could wish that Hon. Members at his own side of the
Rouse had a little mo re worldly prudence. There
could be no doubt that more than three additional
Members would have voted for the abolition of the
window-tax the other evening had not the question
been bound up so illegitimately and irrationally with the
question of the African squadron. It was, indeed,
greatly to be deplored that some of his Hon. Friends
had not a little more w orldly isdow. There was no bait
in the shape of a reduction of 101. or 20/, (to be effected
at the expense of the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that
could be thrown over to them from the other side of the
House, that they would not oily nibble at, but swallow
with the greatest possible avidity.—(Laughter.)
Mr. ROEBUCK did not think that the Hon. and
Gallant Member who had just resumed his seat had put
too transaction of the previous evening in quite a fair
light. The object of those who had voted in the majo-
rity was the laudable and reasonable one of attempting
to raise a revenue in the least mischievous farm in which
a most mischievous revenue could be raised. They had
endeavoured to make the pressure of a tax, to the prin-
ciple of which they strongly objectse, as eqaable and
tolerable as possible, by spreading it over as large a sur-
face as possible, and making many contribute in a small
sum, rather than a few in a very large amount. He
had heard the song sung by the Chancellor cf the Ex-
chequer, and a very dismal and melancholy song it was.
—(Laughter.) It was the old story about a falling ex-
chequer. He had seen many successive Chancellors on
the Treasury bench, but he had never known one of
them of whom it might nut with perfect truth be said
that, when something that was not quite customary was
proposed to him with respect to taxation, his gorge rose
as though you had politely asked him to devote to de-
struction the whole fabric of society. To propose any
alteration, however trivial, in the mode of taxation, was,
in the estimation of a Chancellor of the Exchequer, tan-
tamount to proposing an alteration in the position of the
stars —(Laughter.) As for the instruction of the
human mind, that was a mere secondary consideration.
He at once met you by stating that there would be a
loss of 50,000/. to the Exchequer, and there was an end
of the matter. Talk to him about the powers of produc-
.

tion being augmented, or about the Certainty Of intro-
ducing something new which should make ,the country
what it never had been before in point of happinness and
prosperity, he would reply, " My good sir, it is out of the
question. It would occasion a lose to the Exchequer of
50,000/."—(Laughter.) If you were to represent to bim
that that which constituted the Exchequer was the
power of labour, which poured its earnings into it, be
would still be as inexorable as ever. Strong in the con-
viction that he had Cocker at his back, he would enter
into a calcula'ion to show you that two and two made
four, which, by the way, was not sound political arithmetic
for a Chancellor of the Exchequer.— (Hear, hear.) Such
a question es that at present under consideration was not
a matter for the decision of a Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. It was a matter which ought to be decided by the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government. What higher
duty cculd possibly engage the attention of the Govern-
ment than the education of the people? The people,
educated and enlightened, were omnipotent fur every
great achievement; ignorant and benighted, they earned
about them the elements of mischief. Of what avail
were fiscal considerations, when there was under our
feet a volcano, which might break forth at any moment,
and devote the country to destruction? How was
it possible to conduct the people in a beneficent course
otherwise than by instructing them? And how were they
to be instructed unless by tsose powers of mechanism
which the art of printing had placed in the hands of
their governors ? He confessed ho was sickened and dis-
gusted with the cant cf " humanity" which prevailed in
the present age. When he appealed to those on whose
lips this cant was found most frequently, they evinced
their readiness to let him have their charity. Now
charity, in his acceptation of the word, meant insult.—
(Hear, hear.) Give the people the means of instruction,
and they would not ask for charity. Let them acquire
knowledge, and they would not need assistance to enable
them to obtain the means of subsistence.—(Hear, heir.)
These were truths evoked by the experience of mankind
in these latter ages. We did not know it three centu-
ries ago, but we knew it now. We knew what instruc-
tion was—we knew how to communicate it to the people,
and we knew that a Liberal Administration, which had
not put its entire faith in the mere holding on of place,
but which had its purpose and object in raising, and not

depressing, the people,upon whose enthusiasm it
traded, would have been the first to strike down those
fiscal exactions upon the instruction of the people. The
adminiNt'ation of the Noble Lord had not been of that
kind. He had hung on by place, and he had not sought
to raise the social position of the people by wholesome
instruction. He had, no doubt, wished to get over the
difficulties of his position, but he had not; he had
not sought to raise the condition of the people whom
he had the misfortune to govern. It was upon this
ground that he quarrelled with the Noble Lord.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not care for the opinion of
Honourable Gentlemen at his (Mr. Roebuck's) side
of the House.(Laughter.) He assured them that
they were centuries behind the times, and that
the idea of resuscitating Protection was an idle and de-
lusive hope. If they attempted it they would be put
down and crushed. The Noble Lord need not, however,
apprehend any attempts from that side of the House.
There was nothing approaching to opposition to be
feared, but there was a tide setting in out of doors,
which, if the Noble Lord could but understand and profit
by, would make him omnipotent with the people.—
(Hear, hear.) But he bad a narrow and contracted
mind.—(Hear, hear.) There was, however, a boldness
about the Noble Lord which he admired, and a courage
which he liked. The Noble Lord was placed in a posi-
tion which no other man had ever been fortunate
enough to occupy, and if he would but take the tide at its
flew, he might make much of it; but if he did not, the
tide would swallow him, and he would be as nothing in
the vast multitude of the waters which surrounded him.
—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) believed that no
heater proposition could have been brought forward than
that which the Right Hon. Gentleman had introduced.
—(Hear, hear.) And why did he say so? Because he
knew that the thousands and millions of the people
of this country who were now rising up and gasp-
ing for education would have their attention
directed to other subjects if they did not get it.
If the people were not educated we should hare a red
republic, as they had at the other side of the water,
where the people were not properly educated, and where
they only knew how to combine for mischievous pur-
poses. That spirit of Communism which was so preva-
lent in France was also to be found in England, and it
would to a certainty put down the existing state of
things if the people were not taught how to direct their
powers. There were 30,000,000 of persons at the other
side of the water quite as good as ourselves; but was
there ever known such a rope of sand as that which
France now presented, because the people were not pro-
perly instructed? He contended that the affairs of this
country were conducted by a very small portion of its
people. The multitudes, however, were rising up, and
it was impossible any longer to prevent them from having
power. He entreated the Government, therefore, to
diffuse freely and without fiscal restraint the benefit of
education to those vast multitudes who were entitled to
possess, and who inevitably would sooner or later possess,
those powers which they had not previously enjoyed.
He charged them, therefore, in God's name to give in-
struction to the vast multitudes of the people who had
not hitherto had power, but who were now destined to
enjoy it. Let not the narrow view_ of the Chancellor
of the 17,V:b.. narr b- r.-:^d t^ Into•fere in a matter
of so ;roar iii3iient. He ,_-2pealt.:l to tha .1.40b1c; Lord at
the head of the Government to look to the condition of
France, Germany, and Italy,--(Rears hear.) And why

were they in such a state? The reason was that the
people were investA with political power beeore they
had received political instruction. It was idle to tell him
that the people of England were possessors of power.
It was no such thing, for a very small portion of them
possessed power. There were Hon. Gentlemen opposite
who had represented large constituencies (he did not see
any at his side of the [louse who enjoyed that privilege),
and he appealed t) them to state whether there were not
among them many who held Communist doctrines.—
(Hear, hear.) He appealed to the Noble Lord who stood
between the country and this great t evolution, for it was
idle to attempt concealment of the fact—that the people
were becoming excited, and that inevitably they
would have political power—to be wise in time, and
grant concessions where concessions were required.—
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had always been a
zealous supporter of a large increase of the franchise,
and he had been so with his eyes open, because he
cherished the hope that the Government would not op-
pose the education of the people. If they were to tell
him that an uneducated, excited, and ignorant multitude
were to have the power of regulating this great empire,
he would say that they must have it; but he addressed
himself to those who had in their hands the mighty in-
terests of this expanded empire, and he asked them:to
raise themse'ves above the petty conceptions of a mere
Ministry clinging to power, to expand and exalt their
minds, and to say to those who directed public opinion
in this country--" We are about to raise the people to
exercise and appreciate the great business of empire;
the tide of time will raise them up to that position; we
cannot prevent the consummation, but we are about to
instruct the millions of our countrymen to understand
their own interest, and understanding it, to minister to
the interests of mankind."—(Cheers.) Let this be the
language of the Government, and let no narrow views
interfere a ith the great proposition of the Right Lion.
Gentleman (Mr. K. Gibson).—(Cheery.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Mr. Speaker, those Mem-
bers who were not in the House at the time when my
Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer
spoke can hardly Lave any correct notion of the spy ech
which he has made from the representations which have
been made of it by the Honourable Gentleman the Mem-
ber for Sheffield. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
asks us to raise ourselves above petty fiscal considera-
tions, and to look at the subject with the importance
which it demands. But I own I think that the view
which my Right Hon. Friend took of this case was a
most important one, and the one upon which the decision
of the House ought to depend. My Right Hon. Friend
alluded to the propositions which had been male in this
House after the financial statement of the year had been
delivered, and having alluded to the taxes which he
proposed to abolish or reduce, he stated that, after the
payment of 250,000/., he did not think there would be a
margin of more than 400,0001. on the whole of the esti-
mates for the finacc:al year. Having done this, my
Right Honourable Friend alluded to the propositions
which had been made to this House for the reduction of
taxes. lie alluded to the motion very lately made, and
a cry nearly carried for the reduction of the window-
tax, amounting to 1,800,000/. He alluded to the pro-
position now made to reduce 1,300,000/. He alluded
to the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Montrose, which stands on the votes of this evening,
for the reduction of duties upon agricultural produce anti
manufactures to the amount of 1,500,0001., amounting
altogether to no less a sum than 4,600,000/.—(lleir,
hear.) And my Right Hon. Friend said that if the
[louse, without considering the scope and general ten-
dency of these propositions, would take them piecemeal,
at a period when there was only a surplus of 400,0001.
on the financial year, we would fled ourselves, after
having get out of a financial difficulty, tigain plunged
into embarrassments, and that we would give up a posi•
tion of safety, security, and honour, for one that was
unsafe, ins, cal e, and injurious to the credit of this great
country.—(Loud cheers.) Sir, I may confidently ask
the HOll5O whether this was a petty view to take of the
interests of the country?—(Hear, hear.) I think not.
And when the Hoe. and Learned Gentleman tells of re-
volutions, and alludes to the condition of neighbouring
countries, I know no cause which has been more fertile
in revolutiunt than the mismanagement of finances; a
policy which has reduced the revenue of those sta•es far
below their expenditure, and brought in its wake na-
tional bankruptcy and confusion.—(Cheers.) Why, if
this be the case with regard to other countries, I
think the warning of my Right Honourable Friend was
not thrown away, and that he took no trifling fiscal
view of the case, but a comprehensive and intelligent
one, when he asked the House to consider these matters
as a, whole; and, whether dealing with the stamp duty,
the window duty, and the taxes upon paper and adver-
tisements, to consider, not the detects of the tax, but
how its abolition might affect the general interests of the
country, and to lose sight of the defect in the danger to
which the credit and best interests of the country might
be exposed.—(Hear, hear.) I agree with my Right
Honourable Friend in the view that he has taken.
But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite says that
I hare a contracted mind.—(Laughter.) Well, so it is,
and so I suppose it must be.—(Renewed laughter.) I
regret that do not rise to the height of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman's magnificent conceptions.—(Laugh-
ter.) I trust, however, lam not an enemy to the pro-
gress of knowledge, and that I am not opposed to the
remission of those dutii s when it can be effected. At
the same time, I am bound to see that the credit of the
country is not shaken, and I think it behoves the Go-
vernment to place its financial position clearly before
the House. My Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of
the Exchequer said, and said truly, that different views
had been taken of this subject by different Members.
The lion. Gentleman the Member for Montrose has ex-
pressed his opinion that great reductions might be
made in the naval and military estimates, but a large
majority of the House has voted these estimates,
and as I think that it would be extremely dan-
gerous, regard being had to the present state
of Europe, to leave this country in a defence-
less position, I agreed with the view which the
majority of the House took in voting those estimates.
Then, again, Hun. Gentlemen opposite say, there is no
great mischief if there be some deficiency in income, be-
cause wo may regain what we have lost by the imposi-
tion of those taxes which formerly contributed consider-
able portion of revenue; bur, Sir, I think the majority
of the House would reject that policy as a return to a
vicious system which has been lately abandoned.—(Hear
hear.) Tim result, therefore, would be, that no parties
would agree in these reductions, and it would be impos-
sible to reconcile Hon. Gentlemen to any description of
taxation that would make the revenue equal to the ex-
penditure, or reduce the expenditure in harmony with
the revenue.—(Hear, hear.) The consequence would be,
that the House would find itself in a position of finan-
cial difficulty discreditable to the country, and more
especially so as there is, in reality, no difficulty before
it. With regard to the remission of the taxes on
knowledge, I am not disposed to say much. I admit with
the Hon. Member for Edinburgh who seconded this mo-
tion, that when deputations come to me to express their
opinions, my lips are, as he said, congealed.—(Leaughter
—and that I do not express the agreement I may enter-
tain to the objections taken to certain imposts; for it
really is the case, that there is hardly a deputation,
whether it be to urge the remission of duties on tea,
soap, advertisements, and windows, which has not
demonstrated that that particular tax is in-
jurious to the country. I cannot well dispute
these statements; but on the other hand, if I were to say
they were right in wishing to see those duties abolished,
or to make any pledge upon the subject, they would im-
mediately charge me with a breach of faith in not having
come down to this House and joined my Right Hon.
Friend.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not think the Governments
with which I have been connected have shown indiffer-
ence to the evils which have been inflicted by those
taxes. I find that, in the year 1833, Lord Althorp re-
duced the duty on advertisements from 3s. 6d. to Is. 6d.,
thus losing a sum which he thought would amount to
70,0001. per annum. Lord Monteagle also, when Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, reduced the charge for news-
paper stamps amounting to 309,000/. per annum, and
also reduced the duty upon the finer descriptions of paper,
amounting to 394,0001.—(Hear, hear.) You have thus
about 775,0001. which has been remitted by the Govern-
ments with which I have been connected from the very
articles upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman wishes
for further reductions. This shows that we have not
been indifferent to the evils caused by these taxes, and
that as far as these taxes are concerned, supposing that
among all the taxes there were none more objectionable,
we should be ready to reduce or abolish them if their:own
merits were only concerned. At the same time, I think
the benefit to be derived from these reductions has been
greatly exaggerated.—(Hear, hear.) Indeed I think
the phrase " taxes upon knowledge" is an exaggeration.
—(Hear, hear.) We heard the Hon. Gentleman say,
and say truly, that a great part of the evil complained
of bythe deputation bore upon the coarser kinds of paper
used in packing parcels, such as ironmongery; bat surely
it cannot be contended that the duty upon paper used
for such purposes amounted to a tax upon kno
(Laughter.) Then, with regard to newspapers, it is, I
admit, desirable that the people should have political in-
formation ; at the same time I think much
(.f the matter contained in the newspapers can hardly be
dignified by the name of knowledge. Again, my Right
Hon. Friend showed the mischief resulting from un-
stamped publications, and read various articles from un-
stamped papers which were extremely like the articles
I hare found in stamped papers. There was, for in-
stance, the character of Lord Grey, which I should have
considered written by Jacob Omnium and other writers
in the daily press. With regard to the other news-
papers for which sd. is charged, ld. of which only is for
stamp duty, the only reason that they are charged so
highly is that they are put to great expense in getting in-
formation. One gentleman connected with a morning
newspaper told me that the cost of expressing the French
correspondence for that journal amounted to 600/. a year.
It is, therefore, the desire of the public to get early in-
formation that makes the price of the newspapers high,
and not the penny stamp. I must decline entering into
any pledge that these are taxes that are to be abolished
above every other tax. The Hon. Gentleman the
Member for Montrose has advocated the reduction of
the duties on windows and soap, and has stated that
sanitary measures are useless unless those imposts be
abolished. I admit that those duties interfere very
much with the health, enjoyment, and means of clean-
liness of the people at large. Those are very strong
objections, and equally strong as those urged against
the taxes on knowledge. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman the Member for Sheffield says, we have con-
tracted minds, that we shall fall into danger, and has
reminded us that the case of France is before us, to
show us the perils that we are likely to encounter. Sir,
the present condition of Franco is not owing to the high
price of newspapers, or to the want of instruction among
the people. I understand that in Paris you can get for
a halfpenny a newspaper fall of ingenious epigrams,
clever writing, and all the intelligence of the day.
Schoolmasters are also spread over France, but the
tieNspFtp.?r,.. ciAcavour to n'iLate govc'rl'r'cr't im•
possible;
lii,olumi;t6ks ulticavuur w woke le-
ligion odious.—(Hear, hear.) Then Sir, I say, if you
have cheap newspapers which endeavour tO =lie go-

vernment impossible, and if you have schoolmasters
`whose object is to make religion odious, I can morn
easily explain the stets of France than wish for
an icuitaticn of in—(llear, hear.) e I do not believe,
with the Hon. and Lee-ned Gentleman, that the people
of this country are only lately admitted to political
power. They are a people long accustomed to political
discussion, and long accustomed to take part in the poli-
tical events of their country. The hearts of the men of
England have ever throbbed with the victories of Eng-
land, they have been proud of the loyalty of the throne
of England, and they are men who are proud of the re-
ligion of their country.—(blear.) They entertain those
feelings. They have watebel with anxiety every turn
in the events of their country, and while they have fol-
lowed some Ministers and chiefs with admiration and
enthusiasm, they have been as ready to condemn others
for incompetency and unfitness.—(Hear, hear.) The
lion. and Learned Gentleman says we care for nothing
but holding on fir place. But a few days ago I was re-
proached for the part I took in opposing a motion for
the withdrawal of the African squadron, and I am re-
proached for declaring myself determined not to retain
office unless my opinions were assented to by a majority
of the House on that occasion. Sir, I am ready to
submit to either imputation, as I am not conscious of
being guilty in either respect.—(Loud cries of " Hear,
hear.") So long as we can maintain the principles
upon which wo think the greatness of England has
been founded—so long as we can maintain this country
in the possession of those great benefits which she has
the happiness to enjoy—so long as we can keep her in
the pursuit of that path which has been marked out by
Providence for her course—so long will it be a matter of
pride to at to be the foremost advisers of our Sovereign.
—(Hear, hear.) If it please the House to take a course
which we think dangerous or discreditable to the coun-
try, then our names must be severed from the possession
of power; and we can only lament that the country has
taken a coarse which we will think unfortunate.—(Loud
cheers from the Minister:al benches.) Sir, I must ask
the House to reject the motion; I do so with all respect
to the Right Hon. Gentleman; I do so, agreeing in many
of the statements which he has made with respect to the
objections to be urged against those taxes; but I say
this is not tho occasion, nor the time, when the House of
Commons esti lightly condemn taxes necessary fir the
support of your public obligations, and for the support of
those establishments which you deem essential for the
national defence. If that be the case, then I ask the House
to concur with me in the rejection of this motion, and
to show the country that you are determined to main-
tain the credit, and be worthy of the people whom you
lead.—(Cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, before we divide, I wish to
take the opportunity of expressing in a very few words
the reasons why I shall vote in support of the motion.
I understand that the question before the House is,
whether we shall agree to the first resolution of the
Right Honourable the Member for Manchester. I be-
lieve that resolution recommends that such financial ar-
rangements ought to be made as will enable us to repeal
the excise duty on paper. That is the question upon
which the division is to be taken.--(llear, hear.) In
dealing with this question, I shall. not indulge in thoie
genera! and emphatic views which Characterised the
speech of the Honourable and Learned Member for
She and also that of the Noble Lord the First Mi-
nister. They have both brought us to a e Red Republic,
and there we will leave them—(Loud Laughter)—nor,
Sir, is it at all necessary for me, in the present instance
(although I think it a subject well worth the considera•
tion and deep attention of the House) to enter into the
cases in which within a very few years vast reduc-
tions atiounting to nearly 9,000,0001.—0 f taxation—
pressing principally on trade and commerce. After
having repealed those laws, the repeal of which we
were told would enable the enterprise and industry of
England to beat the world, we still find that, year
after year, I may say day atter day, and hour after hour,
the burden of taxation has become mere grievous and op-
pressive.—(Hear, hear.) Nor shall I remind the House,
and especially my Friends, that if we adopt any mea-
sures for the reduction of taxation, which, under such
circumstances the community and our constituent ; who
were lately complaining of those burdens, might be in-
duced to agree to, and which, whatever might be the
consequences, would afford them relief, we could only
make up the deficiency in the revenue by having re-
course to import duties. I say, I shall not dwell upon
that point, although it might be a topic not distasteful
to us, for really all these matters have been placed before
us in a more fervid manner by the Noble Lord, and by
the Right Hon, the Member for Manchester, than they
could be from the somewhat dry details before us. We
arc now called upon by our vote virtually to repeal an
excise duty to the amount of 750,000/. I cannot view
this question totally unconnected with this year's finan-
cial exposition of the Government, to which the Noble
Lord has himself reesred. I was not, from acciden•
tal circumstances, present when that statement was
made, but it is an immortal subject. It is still
alive. Last night, oven, its details were under
consideration, and the question proposed to-night—
the step which we may prudently take—is entirely cone
neeted with that financial statement of the Government.
Now, I hold, as a general rule, that there are two consi-
derations which ought to influence a financial minister
in dealing with a heavy tax and a surplus. I think
the first duty that should occur to him should he to re-
lieve any suffering interest in the country.—(Hear.)
And I think that if the country be in that happy state
that there is no interest of importance in great distress
and suffering, his next duty should be to relieve all in-
terests by devoting the surplus to the reduction of the
public debts, that is, by reducing the general taxation of
the country.—(Hear.) These are the two-considerations
which should guide a minister of finance in dealing
with the surplus revenue. These are the two conside-
rations which should influence public men when it was
officially announced that we had a surplus, and when, in
connexion with that announcement, it was declared by
the Financial Minister himself that there was an interest
in the country—and the most important interest—not
only suffering, but greatly suffering, and that
its suffering was not only recognised by those who more
immediately represented it, but by the Government
itself, and by the Representatives of this House ge-
nerally. But was any proposition brought forward
to devote that surplus to the relief of that suffering in-
terest? What was the conduct of the Government?
They opposed that proposition, notwithstanding their
acknowledgment that that important interest was greatly
suffering. Under all the circumstances of the case, they
thought they felt justified in resisting the application of
the surplus revenue of the country to the relief of that
interest. Sir, I felt, in the object I then attempted to
effect, that I had acted in a manner which brought to me
and those who supported me no mortification.—(Cheers
from the Protectionist benches.) And what was the
conduct of Government after that?. Were they influe
°need by that which I conceived to bo the second consi-
deration which should influence a minister dealing with
a surplus? Did the Government devote that surplus to
the reduction of the public debt, and consequently to the
reduction of the burdens that pressed on all classes?
They did not. They came forward and made a propo-
sition which I think I am justified in saying was most
unsatisfactory to the people of this country.—(Hear,
hear.) They proposed a repeal of the excise duty on
bricks—a proposition against which, if I had been here
at the time, I shoUld have entered my protest, and
which I think I can say with truth was accepted by
those for whose benefit it was intended with utter deri-
sion.—(Hear.) By that means the Government reduced
their announced surplus of 1,590,0001. to 500,000/. ,The
second measure which they announced was also a mea-
sure of relief to the same interest. Upon that measure
I need not dilate, because its principal character and
peculiar merits are most familiar to all present, and the
House still resounds with the cheers which last night
hailed the defeat of Ministers on that measure. At this
moment the Government are in possession of an unap-
propriated surplus of 1,000,000/. What does the first
resolution of the Right Hon. Member for Manchester
ask them to do with that surplus? Only to appropriate
a portion of that surplus to the repeal of the Excise
duty on paper. Before I give any opinion upon that
particular proposition, there is one observation which I
would make, with great respect, to my Hon. Friends
around me. It is very true that a proposition to repeal
the excise duty on paper, and also the proposition made
the other night to repeal the window-duty, are not pro-
positions to repeal taxes with which those whom we
represent on this side of the House are immediately
concerned ; but I would impress upon my Hon.
Friends that there is nothing more dangerous—there is no-
thing more to bo deprecated—than to make in this House
the offer to relieve the people from taxation always a
que scion between town and country.--(gear.)l have
often witnessed the art that has been employed to convey
a most unjust impression to the public that the only
idea we, on this side of the House, have with regard to
relief from taxation was to relieve the class with which
we stand immediately connected from that burden, not
taking any thought for those who are not connected with
us. The question of relief from taxation should be
always a general and notional question.—():.pear, hear.)
And if at any time, at this side of the House, so far as
I am individually concerned any proposal for the relief
of taxation has been brought forward ostensibly for the
purpose of relieving one class only, it was because that
class was universally confessed to be, not only the most
suffering class, but the only suffering class.—(Hear,
hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer
to
hbaeviinnt in the.
management of this surplus, declined
by those considerations which ought to direct his con-
duct, and as he has at his command a surplus exceeding
that required by the proposition before us, I am to
consider whether, on the whole, it is most for the
advantage of the country that the excise duty on paper
should be repealed, or that the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer should have in his possession a sum for the
discreet exercise of which I have no security what-
ever; for it should be remembered that, notwithstanding
the events of last
night, the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer did not come forward at half past four o'clock
to-day and frankly tell us what he intended to do with
this surplus. He did not tell us whether he meant to
proceed with his measure respecting the stamp duties or
not. He has left us in complete obscurity on that sub-
ject.—(Hear, hear.) What, then, is the propo-
sition -of the Right Honourable the Member for Man-
chester? Can there be in this House upon the abstract
merits of that question two opinions? Is it possible that
any person on the abstract merits of that question can
have an opinion different from that of the Riot Hon.
Gentleman? You may have two opinions as to the effect
of an advertisement duty. There may be also two
opinions as to the effect of the stamp duties on news-
papers; and, as I have not arrived at those resolutions,
I decline now to express my opinion with report to those
duties, but that there are no evils arieing- from duties
abstractedly greater than the excise duty on paper,
whether considered materially or morally, is a position
which I think no one will contest.—(blear.) I shall
not enlarge on those interests in detail on which the
Right Hon. Gentleman dwelt, and with which many of
u are f.t<miliar, hut shell merely remind the house 0-Mt
tax-ea upon lieuotleage ate sneered at ee ieutastec ey the
First Minister, at a time when Chambers had to give up
a publication haying a circulation of 80,000 a week—a