The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-13 00:00:00

AUSTRALIAN COLONIES BILL.

Mr. GLADMTolsiigav; notice that in the event cf
the House sanctioning the Elective Councils for the
government of South Australia, ho should propose a
clause giving her Majesty limited power of appointing
councillors for life on the ground of public services;

also the insertion of a clause giving the bishops and
members of the Church in Australia powers to conduct
the affairs of the Church amongst themselves.
REPEAL OF THE WINDOW DUTIES.
In reply to Mr. HUME,
Lord DU.
i NCAN stated that he should certainly bring
on his motion for the repeal cf the window duties to-
night fhe could do so b: fore half-past ten o'clock.
MARINE BILL.
Lord J. MANNERS gave notice that in the event of
the Marine Bill being read a second time, he should move
that it be referred to a Select Committee.
ADMISSION OF JEWS INTO PARLIAMENT.
Mr. PAGE WOOD called the attention of the House
to the circumstance, that his motion on the subject of the
admission of Jews into Parliament partook of the nature
of a question of privilege. He (Mr. P. Wood) had to ask
the indulgence of the Hon. Member for West Surrey to
postpone his motion, in order to enable him (Mr. P.
Wend) to bring on his motion for a Select Conensitte to
inquire into the practice of the House as to the admis-
sion of Jews and Friends to Parliament.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said if this motion of the Hon.
Gentleman (H. P. Wood) were so pressing it might have
been brought on any time within the last three years.—
(Laughter.) He (Mr. Drummond) was not disposed to
po.stpone his motion, much as he was ready to do at all
times to oblige the Hon. Member for Oxford.
TAXATION OF THE COUNTRY.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND then rose to move, that
whereas the present taxation of the country depresses
all classes, and especially the labouring classes, by dimi-
nishing the funds for the employment of productive la-
bour, it is the opinion of this House that ade-
quate means should be forthwith adopted to
reduce the expenditure of the Government.—(Hear.)
He said he should not take advantage of the distress or
ill-usage under which a large portion of the community
was suffering to excite a clamour against taxation in
general; nor would he deny that there was a great deal
of prejudice against it. He would admit that
in many cases it was the mere transference
of luxuries from one people to another, but after grant-
ing all that, there was still a large margin on which
there was a transference of the reeestaries of life them
those who needed to those who needed them not. He
could not enter into all the subjects which led to that
consideration. De was particularly anxious to avoid
those touched upon by the Hon. Member for the West
Riding (Mr. Cobden). He should, therefore, confine
himself strictly to the words of his motion (given above).
But if this trade was carried on with reckless profusion,
which created heavy burdens upon the people, and
largely increased the taxation, it at least had this advan-
tage, that it gave to this country a monopoly cf the com-
merce of the world—that it did give an immense field
for enterprise—that it did create an immense demand for
our manufactures—and that, in fact, the whole commerce
of the world was centered in this country, and if its
energies were occasionally depressed, there were at the
same time springs of reaction in existence which tended
at all times to restore the balance of prosperity.—(Hear,
hear.) Such was the condition in which they were
placed in 1809. All he desired was to see the same
condition return.—(Hear, hear.) Now, all that he asked
of them was to follow out the course of the policy
which they had adopted, if, indeed, they had adopted
any settled policy at all. All he asked of them, at all
events, was to be honest, and to pursue the course unto
its legitimate end upon which they had entered.—
(Hear, hear.) Now, he would be equally honest with
them, and he trusted that he would be believed when he
said that there was nothing which he more desired
than to keep the present Ministers in their places—
(Hear, hear)—for much ho feared that if they were
not on that side of the House they would
vote with him, and thus would precipitate
measures which he was desirous of delaying.—(hear,
hear, and laughter.) What then he desired was, that
they should follow cut the course which they had
adopted with fairness and honesty, but instead of doing
that, they were stopping in the middle and deluding the
country with vain and flimsy excuses.—(Hear, hear.)
The farmers were now beginning to be tired of the
union into which they hal been brought, and
were desirous of seeing the end of those
measures of which so much promise bad been
made and so much bitter fruit had been reaped.
The two points which he wished to bring under their
attention in his present motion were to reduce the ex-
penditure in the country, especially in the matter of
salaries, and to be honest Free-traders, in taking off all
the burdens which weighed upon the production
of raw nsatcrial of every kind.—(Hear, hear.)
Now he had received a letter from a har-
rhder, whom he had not the pleasure of being acquainted
with except by communication, signed with his initials,
whose permission he ha Ito quote him. Being a lawyer,
and looking at the motto " 'Ne sutor ultra," he began.
with the judges, and affirmed that the salaries of
all judicial functionaries were much too high, having
been fixed at a time when the public were as-
tounded by the reports of the immense sums
saiStio be made by Mr. Sugden, Mr. Scarlett, and others
of the h aling lawyers of the times. It was fancied at
that time that all eminent barristers were making enor-
mous fortunes. But now, he went on to say, times were
far changed, many barristers were glad to get the judge-
ship of a county court at 1,0001., and the most eminent
at the bar, he believed, would be very glad to
get a settled income of 3,0001. or 4,0001. a year.
When the Honourable Gentleman the Member for the
West Riding ha I stated, the other evening, the
difference which existed between the English and North
American judges, the Hon. Gentleman opposite had
explained the different circumstances in which each were
' placed, but that was no answer to the Honourable
Gentleman. The salaries of the judges had been fixed
at a time when the prices of provisions were high ;
and what was desired now was to reduce them to
a pitch consonant to the reduced price of provisions.
But this gentleman sent him another extract from the
report of a Select Committee, showing that the salary of
the Lord Chancellor, which in '97 was 5,9001. was now
14,000/. ; that the salary of the Chief Justice of the
Queen's Bench, which in '97 was 4,8001., was now 8,0001.;
and that the salary of a puisne judge, which
was 2,200/. in '97, was now 5,000/. But in 1809 Mr. Per-
cival, then the First Minister, on the ground cf the differ-
ence of prices occasioned by an alteration of the stand-
ard of value, proposed to raise all salaries 25 per cent.,
and in 1813 a similar increase was made in the amount
of all pensions. Now there was a great
difference between
their salaries and those given to foreign persons; for in-
stance, the President of the United States received only
5,0001. a year, while our Governor of Canada received
as much as 7,0001., and such a governor of a province
was not entitled to more than a sovereign king.
—(hear, hear.) But he had another most valuable
authority—a letter from a tenant-farmer who had
supported the Reform Bill, and he said that his
neighbour, Lord Cottenhana, had lately made a reduc-
tion in the wages of his labourers to the extent of 3s. a
week—(Hear, hear)—and promised to reduce the wages
of others at the same ratio at Michaelmas next.— (Hear,
hear.) This was what the Whigs, with their self-com-
placency, usually called the improved condition of the
labourer--Cheers)—which meant, in fact, a bare exist-
ence in summer and derni-starvation in winter.—(Cheers.)
He had not the honour of knowing that Noble Lord,
but he learned from his friends that it was impos-
sible to select, any person whose sense of the adequacy
of remuneration was more delicate, or who was more
keenly alive to the advantages of good wages.—(llear,
hear, and laughter.) It was said that it was
hypocrisy on the part of the landlord to
preach about protection, because the protection which
they asked for the tenant went back into their pocke,s
in the shape of rent. That was not true, so far as his
part of the country was concerned, for there the greater
part of the land was held by men who farm their own
land—yeomeu who had no resources of their own
whatever. Some of them had sent him their
books to show what their produce sold for six
years ago.—(Hear, hear.) In 1842, in one in-
stance it was 1,061/. In 1848 it was 872/, and in 1849
6761., a diminution which the legislation of the House
had produced and was intended to produce. The dif-
ference was 38 per cent. A short while ago he was
speaking to a farmer on the subject of the motion re-
lating to the reduction of local taxation. He said " What
is that to me? I grow 100 load of wheat a year. This
year that wheat is only worth 1,0:001., which a few
years ago was worth I,sool."—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
But, now observe, they had lowered by their measures
the value of the produce, but they had not lowered the
value of the cost of production.—(Hear, hear.) There
was the place where the Free-traders had been faulty—
there was the point on which they had not been honest.
Now he knew a case where the labour on one farm cost 3821.,
and another 1,3004; and there was neither of those
that had got toe smallest relief from the fall in prices.
In the district where those farms were situate the
wages had fallen from 12s a week to Bs. a week ; and
there the greatest distress exhibited itself. There was the
case of a clergyman who bought an advowson: and on the
faith of that had borrowed money with which t) build
a house, which he did build. Ten years age the al-
vowson was worth 1,200/. a year, now it had come down
to 3601. a year. Now he wanted to know (and
.hespoke
to the Free-traders) by what right they prohibit any
one of the yeomen of England from growing
what he pleased on his land, and using it as
he liked ?—(Cheers from the Protectionists.) lie wanted
to know by what right he was prevented from growing
tobacco, linseed, beet-root, or whatever he pleased, and
using it as he pleased, without any meddling orin-
terference by that House ? Ile would ask why they
might not grow hops, or not, as they liked ?
A Right Hon. Friend of his, who was much esteemed in
that House, was talking to him the other day about the
duty on hops, and had very judiciously remarked that
the farmers ought to be permitted to cultivate their hops
as they thought proper, and putting out his right hand,
as if gathering hops, said why could they nut permit
the farmer to do this as he likes.—(Hear, hear.) And
if that remark was applicable to hops, it was also
equally applicable to clay. Vs by could they not allow the
farmer to move and knead his clay into bricks, and use
those bricks for improving
orincreasing his farm-build-
ings, and do everything in fact connected with their
business according to their own pleasure?—([lear.) But
he could easily see that when the effect was to touch
their own intereti it was deeply felt and soon expressed.
They thought the farmers slow people, but he couhl
assure them that if, after having heard any messure,
tseey found it to to detriment al to their in-
terests they would not be slow in bringing
that matter to a conclusion, and informing them of the
ne oust of their discontent.— (Hear, hear.) In 1823 the
consumption of malt was on an average five bushels
a head. In 1829, when the duty was increased to 215.,
the consumption fell to ono bushel; in 1831, when the
duty was reduced, it rose; and, in 1840. when it was
again reused, it rose to two bushels.—(Hear.) Now
came the point which the Free-traders had to answer.
It was all very easy to go doe n to the hustings and abuse
the lauded aristocracy, but he had observed that the
votes given in that House were more in accordance with
some private interest than the professions on the hustings.
He should continue with th's motion, and give every
constituency a full ormortauity of teeing what the vet

of its Members were here. The House must make up
iti mind to take off the burdens Which were pressing
upon labourers. They had not kept faith with til.c
0
pubic debtor --they had taught the - Pmers
übli
debtor to have no faith in them. ManY •
of Whig Pr:nciples had declared to him their,. uttero
re..:klene6s as to what would become ei, ,ith
iinnstthiteuitrions of the country, since they lad lost tat '411.,
power of preserving them. There was aohs
too, among the labourers that they did net See
there should be so much difference between poor o
rich. It was a fearful condition of things to which the
were tending, and to avert it they must act justlY•
way in which they must act was by diminishing tr
salaries of all the servants of the Crown; and als°
taking away every impediment from the cutivatJr of we
soil to do as he pleased with his produce. He did not *fit
them to say that he sought to screen the rate—no' Pu`' u,
the property-tax, he said, on the landlords; but tbeJ
must repeal those laws, and
the labourer.
take off the pressure from

Mr. CAYLEY seconded the motion. I,l„e„„ue7lt
always entertained an opinion that danger wow'
been
from the commercial policy which bad recently sr.
adopt-d, and he thought he and his Hon. Friend
Drummond) were consistent in the course which (bey.
now pursued, for the purpose of obtaining a reductioe
expenditure, seeing that universal distress was the
sequence of that line of policy to which be bad referred.,
He wanted to know how it happened that at this Pre,
cuiar juncture the House was so anxious for econosut.
and retrenchment.—(Hear.) According to th° Per for
pie advocated the other night by the Hon.
Montrose and the Hon. Member for the Wme't
there ought to be an increase instead of a diroinutiotpl
as
our expenditure, for the ostensible object of gin
trade was to increase our revenue, to make Pe°ll3)o
more prosperous and more happy.-e(Hear, hear.) ,be
the parsimonious and niggardly economy advocateulJ.,
Hon. Members clearly showed that increased pro pear.)
was not the result of our free-trade measures.( es
What had been the consequence of this systera o"try
trade ? Now that they had got it, was the con
satin'
better satisfied?—were the working classes better asthis
lied? Nothing of the sort. One of the effects of this
cheap system had been an Lim-ewe of supplY
"
greater proportions than the increase in the PcPu',
'''
er
The population since the year 1811 has increased 6.per
cent., the commitments for crime had been 500 121
cent., while the increase in emigration since ITbe
had brea 1,900 per cent.—(Hear, hear.)
fall iu the price cf corn during that rrirolB°4
had been 60 per cent. In the year 1811 corn wa'
thethan,
a quarter, in 1849-it was 445. a quarter. Well,
wanted to know, what advantage this system of r
s?
ness and falling prices had been to the working classrede
Why had they se little confidence in their free-t the
principle that they dared only compare the first of
()
three years of free trade with the letr.beal
proverbial distress ? In 1840 the price of- e d
being 87s. a quarter, the number of
amounted to 1,199,0001., and in 1848 the huintrerjn
paupers relieved Ives 1,876,000.—(Lie0r, hesr,:inrter,
1846, when the price of whet was 545. Bd. $ quay
the in-door paupers were 445 000 in 1848 they ant f
to 4,294,000; and in 1849 there eat only a reclacursbn%
there en
400,000, although in the previous year of 1848
been an increase of 1,000,000/. in the poor-rates. in
Paupers relic eof
1846 the price of wheat was 545. Bd. per quartr;ded
1849 it was 445,, and in 1848 it was 50s. ci°llhte: o
that those facts showed that where there had "v.-rets'
high rcuounerat;ng price cf corn the P°°'--ilers
had been less and the number of Pauper-proPsre
relieved had bean less. He believed that a large
tion of the working classes in this country
re fit
employed on the land. If there was net Plod
on the productions and the cultivation of then„ far
there could not be certain employment or good wag,nsed
the labourer. It was because he 7- the
to give the labourer a sufficiency o' ia
necessaries of life that he we bf
favour of proteotion generally. If they could Prul- igter
practice that the working classes,
fed, better clothed, and more happy
under a low price of corn than under a high eure'fres
would for once he a convert to the principles, %neer
a baoecidy:o.rtierfeur79ll:
trade.. But in his short exrcrience he had ',.erje
ytt seen that to be the care. On the Con also
whenever corn had fallen moat in price, he nu" "fled
seen the country pinched the most ; ibis
therefore he was of opinion that if was
cheapness which they hod now got the
allowed to go or much further his Noble Friend st,
at
head of the Government, instead of being staggere-
the proposition of the Hon. Member for the Wel.
Riding for a diminution of 6,000,000/. in tbeee wolf
penditure, would have to prepare ":„r.)
for something more than that.—(llear,
From 1811 to 1820 the average price of corn was as
and the average amount of poor and county rate f
6,100,0001. per annum. But if they took the arersge of
the price of wheat twice a week in the four is
preceding the fill enactment of the poor-laws, nanitbecee
in 1i32-3-4-5, it was 445. a quarter. During ati
years the average amount of the poor and ceutee
rate was 8,10C,000/., so that it was evident that on
condition of the poor was not in any way dependent 016-1,,
the high prieeof corn. When wheat was at 959. 5 ;
ter. the poor and county rate amounted to 6,100,00 9,,
in the other year to which he had alluded, wherl,:lheata
was 445. a quarter, the poor and coliu'l.ertls
was 8,100,0(01. Like the Right Honour-. 0
Baronet the Member for Tamworth, he
cornh should range between 56a. and 60s. a quarter:i.O
e believed that price would not runn-Ato
only re
the farmer, but
also cause good ~v9,e-wr 0
the working manufacturer. (Heai, hear.) ',lec.
1822 to 1849, taking tho time when the Bill for eli",,-.130,
ing the value of the currency came into full operas be
the price was on an average 595. a quarter. But
excepted the notoriously scarce years of 1823 t rtes,
1839, and 1817, the price would have been 535. qua' ace,
Lest he might be said to be taking a solitary instat/1n
desired bat
he would tale the years 1832-3-4.5, in which 40
revenuene was 46,C00,000/. and the price of wheat ibis
net attach more importance to
1,0,
fact. than it was worth, but it was a significant w,,,,f1e0t.
irg to the Noble Lord at the head of the Goverrumence
If ho thought that that great change could 'bead
place with no other revision of taxation that' ;01
already tsken place ; if ho thought that they had Wine.
at the end o:' the journey of free trade, ho was rsi6ta tie
Th ey were scarcely arrived at the first stae' 10
would have to encounter war to the 1‘111:0'
between British wages and foreign Nvoge3'nerair'
tween a country with poor-laws and the world i"""was
He
thought that the tendency of the present systeol it
to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, inreof
would be well if that House in which they sat well
be shaken to the foundations by the conflict. ths
Mr. F. MAULE rose and said, he thought it vit,,a-e
duty of the Government to state at once to the
meant to
and to the country the course which they
with reference to that motion—a motion indefinite
if
. ba
its terms, and almost admissible by all partinie,
ntede
which had been supported by the mover and
.„,,se-c, ea
in speeches of a totally different character. J'ae tz
wit" *-Z •
„ cop'
in the motion a series of resolutions ending "ear.)
elusion in which he entirely concurred.—(ll°°' rthe
He certainly could not differ from his nom Friend 'Paad
assertion that taxation was a disagreeable burden; bet
neither could he differ from him in the conclusion, tdee
the best means of lessening the pressure of that hu,rln of
was the diminution to the utmost extent practicsun to
the expenditure of the country. But when 1-.0 cadis-
ota fp.
the speech of his Hon. Friend, he thought be e
cern in that speech a proposal to deal with the public due
come without any reference to the faith which wen: pee
to the public creditor. -(Hear, hear.) He thounaries
he could see in that speech a reckless attack on the sat the
of ono particular class of individnals—he rafeapit" Was
judges—whose position should be approached, 11-,:iness
to be approached at all, by that House with tneded
careful consideration. His Hon. Friend bad cop tad in
his speech by a general attack on the policy stdu.P,:"ersi
this country in the year 1846, not in subseqviueoujoinenlasor,
and his Hon. Friend who had seconded the
ma le that question entirely 3 question of preteuti:f the
free trade. His Hon. Friend had Old them once
many evils which would result from their parse.-pre'
in that policy. Now, he (Mr. Fox Maule) "Ilnerea
pared to contend that all their recent experience!" bar
that that policy was one Which had conduced to tue
co
ptness of the country, and to the promotion of the esot°
fort of the great mass of the people; and corn° wets
what quarter it might, her Majesty's Govertirrie,nth teat
prepared to deal with all the contingencies to wweolatil
policy might give rise calmly, but with a firm reset be'
the); eot
to proceed in the steps which, in their opinion,
already successfully trod.—(Hear, hear.) lie a 00:
at all clear that hie Hon. Friend was himself
sistent in the course he was then pursuing. 11?t-tocesTicie
ugbtf
ho remembered a time when his Hon. Friend, 06 arr.
considering cheap corn as the greatrst bane to tb °
of
cultural labourer and the farmer, considered it as cOO5l,
dthe greatest benefits they could enjoy—whorl best 0 the
ered that the heaviest tax the people had to PsY ' O,
landlords' monopoly of corn—and when he called ult
landlords to abandon that monopoly for the Vigor
the community at large.—(flear, hear.) His cenie
able Friend said that the supporters of our recent st
mercial policy left out of their calculation the cost
production. But seed formed ono article irj tilloeseerenji
of production, and the price of seed bad been b
by that policy. And again, the cost h°t
manual labour and of horse laboure had heher;l 5 in
larly lowere Ilis Honourable Friend ervid'hiseit
his opinion, fallen into an error into 50P'
the advocates of protection frequently fell, hY.,
p ;sing that the labouring classes cf this couotnr't tae
silted exclusively of agricultural labourers. -111 ass
fact was that there was in this country a larger cant?
labourers employed in commercial than in tired...bat in
pursuits. lie was further prepared to maintain 'cog'
the whole hi,tory of this country the labourers gen a foie,
with the excel Con of those in a few, and onli side°
agricultural districts, had never been in a leLterl ru,ce°
then at present, when all the great articles of subsist PC'
40C I
were at an unusually low price. The only eneo,
which his Hon. Friend could p iint out were reuud eau
in the salaries of the judges. But his Hon. Fricf,Wic:
himself shown that not many years azo tho=c -0 tba.
had been reduced; and tho flees, was also anrsling 44
there was at present before them a Bill for legalliglehle,`
immediate reduction of the salary of the 1.°1."e 000'1
Justice of the Queen's Bench from 11,0001 t 9 'Chit
and a prosr eetive reduction of the salary of te"o-001
Justice of the Court of Common Pleas from 1„." ifo
7,000/. Those, however, were no doubt large ss'-` ic°'
tnati
compared with the salaries paid in some ether co seill
But any gentleman, and particularly any gentlesso9oe
lived on his or tat r in the country, most hnow
the proudest boasts of this country was the tiriquegd 13
uprightness with which justice was administere
s ti tag
to all classes. It was manifestly desirable units
th
services of the most cornretstit men iii thc cbase'
connected with the profession cf the law shoulder, and
cured for the discharge of the functions of jodgeelider'
in order to attain that end the House should c°-e, but
not what were the salaries paid to judges elsewiler