The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-13 00:00:00

~s

bon, which was, that the Government should ascer-
Wn the rights of individuals, to those lights which
,re termed "private." His lion. Friend the Mem-
bn - for Dundee (Mr. Duncan) knew well that a stronger
ease was never made out on behalf of the shipping in-
terfat; and yet to this hour evils of which they com-
noroaplained remained unredreseed.—(Hear.) lie would
aP gc further: in 1845 another Lighthouse Committee was
Pointed, which sat three or four months, continued
th'l inquiries of the former Committee, and recommended
h-vailety of useful and important amendments. But
had since been done ? Nothing—positively no-
tha
inV.--(Hear, hear.) And the maritime commerce of
h the cortntry remained to this hour burdened with those
.eavy 'harges, saving only the small amount of remis-
81°n which was made the year before last, and which was
Stec worthy of notice.—(Hear, bear.) lie did not
we
to say anything against the Trinity House ; they
the
erse ho.iourable men no doubt, but they had conducted
bel'ernoe in a most extravagant manner, and nothing
tl bees':dune up to this time. He contended, therefore,
tviat he veil(' collecting information a Committee was of
'usee --I(ilear hoar.) With regard to the motion
before the House, was there, he asked, a single feet,
atiPP°s Ong a Committees were appointed, which they
t, am
ht •
to but from official men who were subject
gons
Gent, I et the command of the Government? Some Hon.
men then in the House were members of the Com-
mittee -which sat on the miscellaneous estimates last
4weearr; they would remember that e 0 or 70 official menexamined on that occasion ; and upon inquiry
1 arnt that of the who's., number of witnesses
°Pint' ned, there was not one who did not hold an official
Intuce, tion. At a former period, when the Noble Lord
me l 5 some reductions, he did not ask the opinion of the
its Pro
se through a Committee first. lie brought forward
propositions and they were agreed to.—(Hear.) In
manner they should act now.—(Hear) The.
17..9 lame
Lord had spoken of the salaries of the judges in
e; 8; he (Mr. Hume) asked him had there ever been a
r,:iinittee to propose an increase of these salaries ?
• l',if there had noonwhy should he not come down now
intl submit to the House such diminution in the salaries
If:ate:hers of the Government as he might think fair
id
right?—(Ch ) He believed a Committee did
eers.
view to
the salaries of the Scottish judges, with
vr to give theta au improper increase; but that was
I he "17 Committee he ever recollected interfering with
• e ralaries of judges. What was the Committee to core into? into
The Government were in possession of all
ti information; and the Committee could only have
ttl! el anion
of officials, who would confirm and support
ott:.°,l Onions of the Government.—(Hear.) So far as
„rat; iploniatic establishments were concerned, no man
Lersi ecqueinted with them as the Noble
able at the head of the Foreign-office, or better
(Rpa to effect the necessary reductions in them.—
1:1)"' bear.) The Honourable Member for Bucks
Gee o—lsraell) had stated that there were some lion.
bee "efnen who were unwilling to take the amendment
4418 e it came from his side of the House. He (Mr.
me) dared say they were. But as he often remarked
an 1 Plat House, parties were the bane of this country;
their;duty irrespective of party to take care and
17; rer„tse a vigilant control over the public expenditure.
Ns, tion. Friend (Sir Benjamin Hall) had said that this
iv 8 a new-born zeal on the part of the Opposition.
!',ll, he admitted that it was a new-born zeal; but ho
• tiled that new-born zeal with infinite satisfactien.-
1 oud cheers.) Ile looked at the object proposed to
,ecl•---(ilear, hear.) That object was good—it Was to
W ble,_dile6h forthwith and without delay, those measures
e were necessary to effect every reduction in the
ttinn
et establishments that was consistent with the effi-
t- Ile). of the public service.—(Hear.) And he should
e(7, glad to know how many of his Hon. Friends who
il(eti o,cear3tefdroemconomical reform would vote against that.—
both sides of the House.) They might
dtfir'e Vogt it was pressing upon the Government. Un-
-0e1145(11:,7 it was pressing upon the Government, and it
Would to press upon the Government. If Government
n Pc t effect reductions of its own accord, he must
oaity "30 "screw," if he had the power. The House
G 'own tons must be the " screw." They must press the
invert ki sent to effect these reductions. Not a little
fleas Thad been resorted to by the Noble Lord with re•
IPad ti the questio of th increase of our establish-
iiin ,er'tB. The Nobles e Lord took credit to himself for
of ; reduced the expenditure during the last two
3e4rst Ina he did not say how he had been increasing them
1
•P to that period—he did not say how he had gone on
hillere' wing the establishments five or six millions. When,
iuwe rer, ho cams back some two-and-a-half millions, he
oudexclaim," See what I have done!"—(Laughter and
Lod cheers.) He admitted the ingenuity of the Noble
(2'l, and no doubt it would have its influence upon the
_llj'ai ons of those who had not been in the habit of
watt hing the progress of the national expenditure.
'ld ging from recent divisiens, there appeared to exist a
'Position on the part of that House to reduce expendi-
iii:e. It was called for in the country by all parties,
ory, Radical, and Whig; and if they did not respond
t that call they would cease to have the support and
Ceanfidence of their constituencies.—(Hear.) He: con-
fessed that so far from regarding the amendment as an
:insult to the Government, he considered it as indicating econfidence in them, as trusting to the Government that
they would make proper reductions, and if the House
.did not approve of those reductions, it would be their
I ault, and not the fault of the Government—(Hear,
b ear.) He hailed with delight the fact that
tit n House was actuated by the spirit of economy
and retrenchment which had now become so
thwideespread, in the existing state, of things in
is. country—(Hear, hear, from the Country party)—
he v /as sure he should see more country gentlemen
:ett ng in the course of the present session of Parliament l?r retrenchment and economy than he had witnessed
tld ui tlire
tuna e the year 1822. On that occasion they so voted,
answer they received was a very large reduction
iy 3
,000,0001. was taken off at once. He believed
kisr. Gotelburn was at that time Chancellor of the Ex-
meeq-Iter, and after the vote given by this House the Go-
l41"
": it went honestly into an examination of the sub-
-fi;" 433 on the table of the House there were to be found
vol urnes which contained the history of every office
;Tel.( y department of the state, and gave a comparative
-ewa ith the year 1798.. .But though the Government
of thrthat right in itself, it
We day made a beginning was „
a Vt long before they departed from it—(Hear, hear.)
t4hrttobive 'amendment now proposed were carried, it would
~; hpon the Government the responsibility of pro-
ol)Cti g' the reductions. Let them then bring in their
[tau) and if they went too far, or did not go far enough,
/Iwo elt Ibe for this House to correct hem (Hear, hear).
a :was setisfiel that where there was a will there was
1 o effect these reductions ; and thinking that the
ten'eneln lent was a fit and proper one,f that it was consis-
t:tent It di the constitutional power vested in this Govern-
In. rat, and that there was no information which a Com-
inattee could gather that Government were not already
ppfn Pos cession of, he should not be one of those who re-
tl to give it their support because_ it was offered by
Wretr' 10 had not hitherto been the friend of economy and
er, ehment—(Cbeers).
Gov • HENLEY said he could not underitand what the
ws'ae.e "Inent meant betatis motion. They did not state
Object ti r there should reduction or not. The only
O he could see would be to make another blue book
red
auction,
It was evident they did not mean to make
1 'action. They could interpret what they meant
ti • I'', 'at they had done. In 1831, they made an ar-
eell,P ales
with a judge, who in his office did great
to himself and to his profession, by which the
heri should be reduced from 10,000/. to 8,000/. a year
t
Attire, and they could see the object of the Govern-
at was to keep salaries as they were in 1831. The
4 'lble Lord appeared to depart from this. There was
otOther point which deserved attention. Was this a
aetieal measure of reduction? They saw the result
fe' Committee two years ago, when the reference was
e C 1 V upon a few situations, and the Committee in consee-
•,',, enee reported, that when the inquiry was so limited,
.1'111e37 could not interfere, but that it should extend to all
"i nailer salaries. They could not, in fact, form a correct
S
9ginent
e ,unless they took a general view of the expen-
z Tt:e best way in this case was to throw the
t e4Ponsibility upon the Government. As he had bcosei
t :4(1 upon by the Honourable Baronet (Sir B. Hall)
- state why he had not moved an amendment which
• 'lould embody all the subjects comprised in his
ceti,en last session, his answer was, thal there
• °uld be no result in any ordinary space of time.
'e subject was so large, that in his opinion no good
swiLt 'old come
of it should the inquiries that were neces-
that
' be entrusted to a Committee. They never would
get any report of any sort or kind. He did not believe
G 0,., "le subject could be deal but by the executive
f clent.—(Hear.) Theßovernment could extract
tri;)l3l tit, sir servants what no Committee could elicit; and
eoellc1461( knew how and in what manner reductions
!ta 3 made, so as not to impair the efficiency of the
„tlutie ervice., For these reasons he should give his
-01341 to the motion of the lion. Member for Bucking-
/3)BNi e.
//14°,11, H. VANE said that he did not agree with Mr.
ineclep and Mr. Hume that the Committee would be use-
Wn' g+ td that no good would come from its appointment;
er .:ommittees bad been heretofore appointed, and had.
be en found illusory. On the contrary, their re-
ceenirne n ations had produced th best effects. And he
d d
that, with the means of infurmation which the
-' init tee proposed by the Noble Lord would have in
,„nclu e'r pc ssession,
sic n very they might arrive at an approximate
aeon, without this House having to wait
l'ade finite period for their report which Mr. Henley
"eermed tt s anticipate. Being of opinion, then, that much
good woiald result from the appointment of the Coin-
"tee, and that some real, practical, economical reforms
Would be effected thereby, he should vote for the motion
Pt'oPosed by the Noble Lord.
GAA.NTLEY BERKELEY said he was much
I•4Prised, at the speech of the Noble Lord who had just
r"
"Ile as he had been a member of a Committee on
the Afri can slave trade, every recommendation of which
bed heel I set at defiance by the Government. He be-
ved Use present course adopted by the Government as
(ply a :node to shelve the question.—(Cheers from the
ini'Pesition.) The course adopted led him to doubt the
Befeerit.P of the intentions of the Noble Lord in favour
Should c, srdially support the amendment.—(Hear.)
th Mt!: C OCKBURN said that, in his humble judgment,
e t`4oli,e Lord (Lord John Russell) had adopted the
free"
an per and the constitutional course.—(Cheers and
b -g"ter.) The House cf. Commons was the proper tri-
aunal ee make reduction. They ought to know the
ert4'tes 'of expenditure, as well as the amount of salaries
Wag •by public uses. For that purpose a Committee
072! detorable. They would ascertain the necessary
fol'tlY in the discharge of their duties. Take judges,
14 listance; if he was to put their necessary expenses
fulfil the ancient duties of hospitality and the
whole of going circuits at one-sixth or more of their
be correctly e ie, he would not be far wrong, but it should
ivascertained by a Committee. The same
(lenge he said of the diplomatic offices. That should be
sagas,. Pe;ilF in the, most
ppublic manner.—,_ (Hear.) Their
fairi . '''.1)111: did not act
It w3', t'Titing this responsibility upon the Minister.
to Po~6ivu to
3 Putting the Minister in a most painful and de
Adge 119Tf much 1191114 IN deducted