The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-24 00:00:00

TEE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEARIDARY .4, 1844.

itnhteeoNdoehd t
l( to 'ord on the ercasion which I alluded,-that ynere mitted, she exereie• of ilia, p,•lvilege of defence, to give vent
ropose some measure of conciliation—and, first,' I to tho- s feelings. Yet Imu -t rue eriiiit those feelings to be
understand that 3uu intend to ',repose an enlargement of the mixed up in the consideration of the important matters of policy
grant—Now, Ido not know whether you mean an enlarge- affectiug the interests of lreland.—( Hear, hear.) Upon all
ment of the grant to Maynooth, or of the grant for the pur- that part which relates to public policy--to the question of
. Poses of general education. , future legislation—l trust I shall address myself with that
An Hoe. MEMBER.—For general education. temper, and moderation, and forbearance, which are becoming
Mr. O'CONNELL—You then propose to increase the a subject of such immense magnitude. I hope, also, that in
grant for general education. lam glad to find that it is so— defending myself from the charges brought against myself and
You cannot educate the people too much.—( Cheers) You my colleagues, I will not forget that reserve with which all
.may educate them too much for sour own purposes. You matters of a personal nature, affecting the position of the gen-
„Ty educate them so as to make them turn against yourselves, tlemen who have been made the subject of criminal proceedings,
tD our great security is in the ignorance of the people.— require. If I transgress the rule I have laid down for myself,
(Cheers and laughter.) You intend to increase the educa- it will be totally contrary to my intention. I wish to
"on grant—l am glad to hear that such is your intention. j conduct the defence of the Government, with a per-
--(Hear, and cheers.) I will frankly tell you what feet recollection of the position of the Hon. Gentleman
ion ought to do to gain the people of Ireland. Well, who spoke last. Sir, I cannot be diverted from the question
am next told that you intend to introduce for us the I raised by the Noble Lord by the speech of the Hon. Gentle-
Catholic Charity Act—that you mean to extend to Ireland Mr. I man. I wish the Hon. Gentleman, instead of agitating the
Lamb's Bill for regulating English Catholic charities, passions of his countrymen on the subject of repeal, would give
nw
You cannot do a greater mischief to the Catholics of Ire- I us an opportunity of meeting him in argument, for I should not
'ld than to introduce such a measure for them. Ido not have any doubts as to what might be the result. I beg you
obi than
to the Bill. I ought not to do so, for I introduced the Ito bear in mind what are the arguments on which he has this
tn
ea'ure myself. I endeavoured, for two separate sessions, to night rested his appeal for a repeal of the union. What per-
carry it, but the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Oxford, version of history is necessary in order to vindicate the demand
atterided every evening that it was upon the paper—he for repeal ? Says the Hon. Gentleman, 0 For eighteen years
attended most determinedly, and at last he actually tired me up to the period of the union, Ireland had the happiness of an
out. Having no day that I could appoint for it I was obliged independent Parliament." An independent Parliament!—
t° give it up. I complained to the then Administration, what the Parliament that sat from 1782 to leoo an inde..
andthey appointed Mr. Lamb to bring in the measure, pendent Parliament, providing for the social k,happiness of
it was carried. Now that At was a very those on whose interests it was to legislate !—( Hear,
useful Act for England, but it is totally inap- hear.) Why, one of the complaints of the Hon. Gentleman
lineable to Ireland. The statute of superstitions uses was himself to the legislative union was, that it was through cor-
never enacted in Ireland. The statute of Edward the Sixth ruption the Act of Union had been effected—(hear, hear)—
/qr.' Passed only for this country, and it was merely a retrospec- that the rights and liberties of the people had been sacrificed to
e Act ; but Lord Eldon determined that although the Act the corruption of the Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) And was
as a retrospective Act, he would construe it as a declaratory the condition of the people really happy under that Parlia-
Act, and hence the Catholic charities in England were declared ' ment? What said Mr. Grattan of it ? Long before 1782, if
illegal ; but in Ireland that Act never passed. All cha- I remember right, he asked, What has your independent
''table trusts for Catholic purposes have always been recognised Legislature effected for you ? Has a Place Bill been passed ?
h
• Y all courts of law in Ireland. Twenty-five years ago I held Has a Pension Bill been passed ? No, said Mr.
in trust a sum of 20/. annually for ever for the celebration of Grattan, we have got a Bill against Peers. We have
~,,
least
for the dead. I show you then that there is not the got a Riot Act, we have got pensions without end, and we have
-east occasion for this Act in Ireland. The old Statute of got a profligate traffic in the sale of the peerage. That was
lilortmain never applied to the Catholic clergy of Ireland. We Mr. Grattan's account of the virtue of that independent Par-
are, therefore, under the common law, and according to the 'lament and he said, what has been the effect of that ? It has
common
law trusts for charitable and religious purposes are not reduced Ireland to the condition of a province. Is it true,
illegal. The Act was necessary for the Catholic clergy of Eng- then, that the condition of the people of Ireland was then really
eat.", but it is totally inapplicable to Ireland. But I will tell you happy, or are all the statements at present of the physical con-
-"at you should do. You should make each Catholic Bishop dition of the city of Dublin, and of other cities, from the year
a guns/ corporation, so as to enable him to take land—you may 1795 to 1800 mere fallacies or delusion. Look at the account
limit the quantity, if you please, but you should enable him to of the trade of Ireland. Look at the actual diminution of the
take land which might go to his successor without the interven- trade of the shipping interest of Ireland for the ten years that
of heirs-at-law or executors ; by so doing you pass an Act preceded the union. I will challenge the Hon. Gentleman to
thatum
would be really useful for charitable purposes in Ireland ; prove the fact that Ireland was advancing in prosperity.
21,1 t the Bill which you propose will not do so. The next thing The policy pursued in Ireland during the period intervening
eh I understand you intend to propose is an extension of between the years 1793 and ISOO, was the cause of the Rebel-
the. franchise, and, as I read it in the newspapers, lion of 1798, and all its terrible consequences.—( Cheers. )
ion Propose the abolition of the necessity for payment of all • But I do say, that if the statement of the Hon. Gentleman be
taiaes, except poor-rates, borough-rates, and grand jury cess. true, he proved that the happiness of the people was quite
°w, why is the necessity for the payment of grand jury cess i independent of the social institutions of the country ; but he
be retained ? It is the most vexatious tax of any, and is cannot deny this, that if the Parliament promoted the prove-
,lected by officers who are now not appointed by, nor under rity of Ireland, that Parliament was returned by a small ma-
control of the Government.—(Cheeers.) These officers I ,purity of Protestants. That Parliament was composed of,
are appointed bygrand '
the iury and are favourites of certain
I elected entirely by Protestants, and during its existence, there
grand jury-men. They are" responsible only to the grand jury was an Established Church in existence in Ireland. If the
fluctuating body ; one set are appointed in April, another in Hon. Gentleman said that the social state of Ireland during
'Tune. They are changed four times a year. If you insist upon this period was almost perfect, he should recollect that the
the payment of the grand jury cess, you will be creating that Roman Catholic was subject to great disabilities,
Which may be made a great vexation to a political opponent, that the Parliament was exclusively Protestant, and
„-4„' You will not compel the payment of the grand jury cost, the Church in its full power.—( Cheers.) I leave to the
slier will you prevent its payment by not making its payment Hon. Gentleman to choose either of those points—namely, that
snake to the acquisition of the franchise. *You must also it was consistent with the interests of Ireland to uphold in its
-"aae regulations for insisting on _the residence of freemen— most exclusive, and as he would call most intolerant form, the
alt should reside, for three months before and three months Established Church, and that still the disabilities of the Ca-
. a'ter the registry, in the borough. If you insist tholics should be in full force; or that the Government had
nn the residence of freemen, you will have made a been carried on with that Parliament existing between 1782
• ~. t" be Useful change. The county franchise, too, lam told, and 1800, through the instrumentality of corruption-
-5/01)., he altered. Now I speak in no disparagement of the (Cheers)—that the social condition of Ireland was
this Lord when I say that I have no confidence in him on not a happy one, and that that Parliament did not
subject. His measure would bring about the extinction promote, nor was calculated to promote, the peace and welfare
t▪
he county franchise in Ireland. You should give us the of the people. I say, Ido think that the Hon. Gentleman
annihilate
interest franchise. The solvent test franchise would would better have consulted the interests of his country, and
bring the county constituency of Ireland. If you adopt that course which would be most conducive to his own
Dr;'ng in a Bill for regulating the county franchise, you should fame, if he would give us an opportunity of hearing and ex-
c.." us every facility for acquiring it.—( Hear.) There is not amining those statements, and counteracting these arguments,
man in Ireland who could obtain the franchise under the sol- instead of inflaming the passions of the ignorant by those mis-
the'• tenant test. Ireland is asp poor country, and if you doe any- statements which he ventures to make in they face of a British
y g You should do it generouy, and do it at once.—( Chers. ) public.--( Cheers. ) I shall now address mself to another
f ntt should give us a franchise equally potential with the portion of the debate. I shall address myself to the motion of
nsilehise in England, so as to have a constituency of the Irish the Noble Lord the Member for London, anti Ido say that I
Zninties equal in proportion to the population of that of the think he will admit that it is a motion exclusively and strictly
nglish counties. Recollect, too, that a man having 51. a year deserving the name of a party motion—( Tremendous cheers
• i:.l,lJeland is as independent as a man with 10/. or Loa a year from the Ministerial benches)—it is perfectly a motion in con-
se you legislate for us justly, I shall hail your formity with ancient precedent, and is a constitu-
,
lia/sures with satisfaction ; but we must have no restriction of tional mode of testing the confidence in the Ministry.
if.' franchise.—(Cheers.) We will meet you cordially But that it is a party motion, I am sure
n You will meet us cordially.—( Loud cheers.) An- the Noble Lord will himself admit. It is not a motion to in-
-jeer part of your plan relates to fixity of tenure. quire into the state of Ireland. The Noble Lord may have in-
w Your Commission is doing great mischief by unfixing the tended to pursue this course, but I must say, that ho should not
"
all' of the actual occupants. An idea has gone abroad that have mixed up any party consideration with the consideration of
hose who have been ejected during the last six years are to the social state of Ireland. I should say, I will challenge your
70, restored. It is a great misfortune that this idea should have conduct—l will put you on your trial—l will separate you from
.(3 abroad ; but such is the case, and the minds of the actual the social state of Ireland. The Noble Lord did not take that
acennants are unsettled in consequence. Now you must act course, but he moved for a Committee of the whole House on
ti.yeditieusly—you must act rapidly, in whatever you intend to the state of Ireland, as if afraid of the possibility of the sue-
. mul, I should propose that you should take the law of landlord cess of his motion, and as if he shrank from being compelled
~,_tenant as it was at the time of the union,. by repealing in that Committee to explain in detail his own views as to
hilvt:ystatute on the subject which has been Passed since. The the course which should be pursued in Ireland. At the
its tuit,_ ords cannot complain, because you will give them the law moment he gave his notice he said I mean to move a resolution
eon made it for themselves, but year after year since then condemnatory of the course pursued by her Majesty's Minis-
laoditorve been making the law more stringent is favour of the tors. I will make it impossible on account of its character to
teto.° d so as to enable him to seize even the last growing po- adhere to that motion.—(Cheers from the Tory benches.)
the If you restore the law to the state in which it was before With respect to the speech of the Noble Lord the Member for
union the landlords cannot have any right to complain. Sunderland, I feel hound to state my conviction that I think it
land lowa
in favour of landlords were generally enacted in Ire- is wholly free from party bias, and that he expressed his opinions
lute
nmg before they were enacted in this country. The sta- —much as I may differ from those opinions—in such a manner
avossry for instance. which was not passed by the that I never was more convinced of their sincerity and manli-
pesnig,ehesh Pal-if:merit until the reign of George 11., was ness.—( Cheers.) But, certainly, I must say, that the Noble
tSlne`e° by the Irish Parliament in the reign of Lord the Member for London, in his speech, seemed
with ,n Anne. But you have much more to do if you to me to be engaged in the solution of some great
reen"° manifest a disposition to act fairly by Ireland. You problem in political fluxions.—(Cheers and laughter.)
%line inquire into the financial arrangements made at the He seemed to me to be trying to obtain the maximum of cri-
readas•-(Cheers. )' Yon perhaps will not take the trouble to mination with the minimum of inconvenience to himself.—
soe..li,oe documents which have been issued by the Repeal As- (Loud cheers.) I think I could extract from the spirit of the
non ibis subject ; hut if you will get those who are Noble Lord's motion the idea, " onl remove the present Go-
.. yoo:?'eou to read those documents, and to report en them to yernment and place me in their steady—( Loud laughter) —and
Peres!: will tell you that th.ere never was a greater. injustice if that were his meaning—because the Noble Lord certainly
unitcz ated than by the financial arrinjustice by all financial ar- not he explain his views and policy with regard to Ireland, for at
peoge rnents being made here you will not satisfy the present he must say that he has said nothing which would compel
P''s of Ireland until you do them financial justice. I will him, if in office, to adopt any course different from that pursued
Y glance at corporation reform. Your corporation re- by the present Government ?—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
b:m...,Was insult, and not redress. You dissatisfied one party Did not the Noble Lord say if he could realise his plan he
o'l power from it, while you dissatisfied the other by would; divide the revenues of the Church, and give a portion
font.LgivinT it the shadow of over. Give us corporation re- to the Catholics and Presbyterians? But as the object was most
more."IAL to that which you gave to England ;we demand no remote, and as no chance of its realisation existed, in
from the re atm afraid of the effects of the transfer of power case of his re-instalment to power, he was bound
dominant
in those boroughsCetholic, the minority? That is past and gone—and even himself by no tangible engagement in respect to the
in which the majority of the population is Church, or indeed of anything else.—( Hear, and cheers. )
tion.tphreorrtion of Protestants in the Town Council is I rejoice to see that the Noble Lord has not committed him-
.• greater than are entitled to in proportion to the popula- self to any measure which will tend, in the slightest degree, to
• Null All offices are equally open to all, and are bestowed injure the Established Church.—(Cheers and laughter.)
sentej upon all. Then with regard to absenteeism. Ab- With respect to the accusation thrown out against her Majesty's
Ls !Sill is the curse of Ireland. It ought to be punished Government, I think the Noble Lord might have shown less
ahef▪ lune. You ought to impose an absentee tax. You have acrimony,for considering the exposed conditionin which his own
Csi'"Y to some extent done it by your income-tax. house stood and the brittle materials of which it was composed
tislY,ana heavy tax upon the absentee landlord in —remembering the Coercion Bill, anirthe Appropriation Clause,
t d, so as to drive him back to attend to the interests Ido think the Noble Lord ought to have abstained from throw-
,B,7e:retched serfs.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Stafford ing stones at his political opponents.— trifling laughter.) But
hest ), lam cheered by an Irish landlord, and one of the the subject is too important to justify . The Noble
sorouotriotirlish landlords. I will give you full and explicit in- Lord had made me, as the head of the Government, re-
for all useful purposes. But you must not peddle sponsible for everything. Amongst the many charges he
_t_he wrongs of Ireland. You must not quack with them. made against me, was that I selected the present Lord Chan-
, 175 Zles: give us a radical cure. Recollect that Harwich with cellor merely on account of his hostility to Ireland.--( Hear.)
176),,t„ has two Members, and the county of Cork with The Noble Lord denied his talents—(Cheers)—he denied his
has only two. The profligate corruption of the ho- claim to the appointment on account of the efficiency with
bear
admitted at the beginning of the session, and the which he performed his public duties ; and undertaking to
of the Hon. Member for Bath proved it.—( Hear, answer, not for the conduct of the act, but for the motives
bier •I now come to the Church. You have in Ireland a of other men, the Noble Lord declared it to be his opinion that
arch,
'annected perfect hierarchy, unconnected with the State, but I had selected Lord Lyndhurst for office on account of his
deprive intimately with the people. Ido net ask you to hostility to the people of Ireland.—(Cheers from the Oppo-
Wow,' .anY loan of his vested interests. No man in Ireland sition, met hy counter cheers from the Ministerial side of
Lent
OOWinterfere with the interests of any Church incum- the House.) Nay, it was worse, that I had so disgraced
case
s living ; but you must, as statesmen, look to the myself as to' select for the highest office in the
tquaiir Ireland, and see that without giving religious law a man whose chief qualification was that he had used
tole th.Y., you cannot do us political justice. I have been expressions offensive to the people of Ireland.—( Hear. )
and ete'• You propose to give a salary to the Catholic bishops brought without the strongest and most confirmatory evi-
,,..Yee h rgY• They dare not accept it. They would lose caste. dente to establish it. As I had been already in three admi-
Zhet .ae not money enough in your treasury to pay them. nistrations with that Noble and Learned Lord, in the year 1829,
CathOou could give would excite but not satisfy them, and the and in the short government of 1834.—( Hear, hear.) In the
not dis° bishops would rather have seats anywhere that was year 1841, I was called on to form an Administration ; and does
that IriePutable•than in Parliament. Do you mean to say the Noble Lord think that it would be just that I should have
meet ,e,
it were not for the Protestant Establish: said to Lord Lyndharst—" It is true that I have been twice
lute you ttn, Protestant religion would not stand ? connected with you in office—it is true that at the time when
t:rsona me that your religion would fail if there were not Catholic disabilities were removed, I asked for your assistance
rote„_ Paid for instructing others? Oh !if that be your in mitigating the prejudices of the House of Lords, and that I
Jant religion, what a triumph to me as a Roman Ca- received your powerful support—but as you have used a hasty
W The Roman Catholic Church possessed all the expression, at which offence has been taken, I must ex-
illreater which your Church now has—or, at least, the elude you from office, in order to court popularity in Ireland."
oeationlisortion of it. There have, I believe, been certain —(Cheers.) But Lord Lyndhurst would say to I deny
since the Reformation ; but the great mass that I used any such expressions.—( Cheers.) In a fortnight
Ste great bulk of them-9991. out of every 1,000/. were after I used the words which were so misrepresented or misun-
ple, ~sjo Roman Catholics. You took them from derstood, I was taunted by those who said they heard me, with
upon that , hunted them into the wilds and fastnesses. It is a stating as a reason for not granting municipal corporations to
Jon the set the same price upon the head of a wolf, and Ireland, that the people were aliens by descent—that they dif-
;Olen %hoed of a priest. You did all you could against fered from us in language—that they considered us aliens
1 d has the Roman Catholic religion failed in Ireland from their soil, and desired to remove us from their
..I;haks4t,eouf money.? No. It never was. more triumphant. country. .My
,answer was, I did not say so, nor anything re-
str archbishops, twenty-three bishops, fifty deans, senibling It.--(Cheers.) No expression fell from me which any
thr s trehdeaoo
ea e„_kt ns, and some 2.000 parish priests, with two or person, not of weak intellect or disposed to misrepresent my
floss an'tt: es to each—an entire, unbroken hierarchy, in as words, could have so distorted.—( Cheers.) When the Marquis
tens, s, regular order, and as perfect as on the day before ot Lansdowne, either through kindness or in compliment, asked
11'1'4 hjayiel_lolu. ascended the throne. You have despoiled them, me for an explanation, I stated to the House of Lords that I
ere in not the same faith in your Protestantism as I had nothing to explain, for I had said nothing like what was
• y(:r'oyk Catholicism ? Are you sincere in your faith? and imputed to me."—(Cheers. ) Now, Sir, no one could regret
"'eh educeneve that the scriptural truth, and the support more than myself—(unless it be Lord Lyndhurst)—that my
tesnees to it anon, talents, anti literature give, are sufficient Noble and Learned Friend had used this hasty expressions
hese aY,!mr Church ? Has it not the blessing of God if it be • which he did use.—( Hear, hear.) But, Sir, was I, six years
rise iv`enurch, and what greater bulwark can it have than afterwards to say to him, " I cannot advise the Crown to ad-
tWillnotntYr then is the country to be divided.—( Hear.) Oh, Vance you to office, on account of those hasty expressions ?"
o look
nno_es.Pas! longer on this subject. But I implore you ( Hear, hear.) Sir, when I consider that Lord Lyndhurst
the Mons[r "it with the eyes of statesmen. Don't let us see raised himself from the position in which he was born, and the
his weleth.r4is anomaly, that the Church of the wealthy has all manner in which the office of Lord Chancellor has been filled
ol'Ntig
of while the Church of the poor has nothing but the for the last eight or ten years—an office which has been occu-
i . cheering. )I go hack. What do you pied by such s Lord Eldon, Lord Brougham, Lord Cot-
! :t
fr.. for Ireland ? lam afraid, whatever it be, it will tenhann Lord Plunket, and Sir Edward Sugden—when I con-
• I wish it were. Years enough have clap- skier the origin of those distinguished persons, and the eompa-
a the
a
gave eea connection commenced between the two countries rative ohscurity from which they raised themselves to the
Rve usted all the sources of malice and ill-will, and highest civil situation next the Throne, I think this is the
Ch:.
sou
religious rancour. It i 3 tune there proudest homage to the democratic principle of the British
• eediatites of it. The time is come when Constitution."---( Cheers.) It is the strongest practical contra-
tuen utthueghlatndlow embrace each other as men diction of the phrase quoted by an eminent member of the
thra . erg, and when charity should be spread Roman Catholic party—
Irishnßilout
when the odious distinction between " Ilaud facile emergunt quorum virtutibus obstat
the. an Cat Englishmen Englishmen—the odious distinction between Res augusta domi."
sett, atnolio
seseaerelatione. and Protestant—distinctions odious in all (Cheers.) In this country there is no obstacle to the ele-
eih "ouseeshap except in the rivalry of purity and mutual vation of men of talent and wisdom, by the buoyancy of their
gi (Cheers be abolished, and justice shall be done to own character.—(Cheers.) It is true that I have had diffi-
• e Vtlm• culttes to contend with, which the Noblo Lord had not, in
iAt k4t e Blake and Sir R. Peel rose at the same time, looking to the claims of candidates for that high office. The
iie-i4,iste;tuanlieideoretise uproar, and cries of " Order," from the Noble Lord had exhibited an example of great boldness and
'Lite sat &Zito h • Sir V. Blake, after some little hesita- courage unparalleled since the " atrox animus Catonis."
„ •
EEL
• b_ proceeded to address the House. He said—Sir, I—( Tory cheers, and laughter.) It was an example
,of virtue, not of meanness.—(Tory cheers.) The Noble Lord
tied
oot' appalled by the duty which I have to discharge, if I had the good fortune to be connected with a man who had ever
( great been the faithful friend of the Whig party—the ornament of
• k,w7) hear., `Znsdence in the indulgence of this House.— the Irish bar—the friend of Grattan—Lord Plunket—a man
not
rrising at The House, lam sure, will consider that in whose name would go down to posterity as one of the
ising •
Close of the ninth night of this debate, lam greatest stars that ever shone in the sphere of Irish eminence.
• )' awn " the Purpose • • —But, Sir, Lord Plunket was the son of an Irish Presbyterian
slitioa the
I of gratifying any personal wish of I
minister, and he rose to the office of Lord Chancellor.—
the Y.-es am not rising for the purpose of any idle
ee, ~ca 'or , hear.) lam • • • late en°ll duty rising in the performance of (Hear, hear.) He was advanced to that eminence by the
, Noble Lord. But the Noble Lord challenges us with over-
whnit' which irepos towards the House, and towards the Govern- looking the claims of eminent Irishmen to office. Why, Sir,
Sir' "--a. theesol,l%!pon• me, considering the situation in the Noble Lord had in office the most eminent man that ever
de,_ at in t,. igation of addressing the House. I know, . adorned the Irish bar ; and yet six weeks before the Noble
tb.l. uti debat
tette . ity, „ e, conducted on each side with extraor- Lord retired from the Government.-7—(Cheers and counter
• - Is no every argument has been exhausted, and that cheers.) The Noble Lord is sensitive of Irish feelings.—.
• othe °Pliort unit (Tory cheers and laughter.) He is jealous of offences offered
tcn r alter . Yof adding anything novel. Yet I have
3to natiVe, if . to Ireland.—( A laugh.) He is jealous of promoting English-
istelh rne, th am to discharge the duty which apper- men instead of Irish to office in Ireland. But he had
broughtide fo an to present in a connected, clear, and lin office the man who was the pride and boas of the Whig
t rrn, my • •
ravellins, before the'Opinions and views on the several matters party in Ireland ; and to that Irishman—to Lord Plunket, the
enlist 's "er that louse. I cannot do that effectually without Noble Lord signified that. it was expedient for him to. retire ;
treoe4ar :11!r_efese; itfi.,eld which has been already exhausted. I and for what purpose ?—in order to gratify the vanity of a
order'rtZto the patience and indulgence of the Scotchman.—( Cheers and laughter.) Ido not deny that he
c ' I have another I may perform this duty —( Hear! was an eminent man. Ido not deny that he was a distin-
ecused exerci" yet greater dut toe'rform. I I guished lawyer, of whom I wish to speak with all respect.
on •Go that privilege which belongsg to the I Still I must say that the Noble Lord, in the instance to which
whi Ottr d '''e Part os th
b efence. e Government, I stand here i I refer, superseded Lord Plunket to gratify the vanity of a
elPosed toe'Peak influenced by those feelings Scotchman—( Laughter and cheers)—for six weeks—for only
Unjust and tat,emerit"sciousness of having been I six weeks' tenure of offtce.---( Cheers. ) Sir, if I were so
ed imputation, I may be per- placed that I bad only the alternative to make such a choice, I

would not retain effiee one hour. —( lienexed cheers.) Then
the Noble Lord (ruined Lord Lyn urst. Who': was Isis next
topic ? Why, th. Noble Loin woo stood forward as the re-
presentative of a great party, and came to the rescue of the
country, occupied his time in raking into the kennels for the
refuse of election dinners—(Cheers)—and quoted the speeches
made at an election dinner in Canterburv—(Cheers)—in order
to charge me with participating in and adopting the sentiments
there expresied.—( Hear ) This would be a hard rule for
public then.—(Hear, hear.') It is hard to make me respon-
sible for the expressions, either used by Mr. Bradshaw
at Canterbury, or attributed to him.—( Cries of " Hear,
hear.") 'The Noble Lord is followed by a powerful party,
confederated with him in promoting political objects—who will
vote to night, naturally and justifiably, for the purpose of dis-
placing us, anti replacing us with him. But I would think it
unjust to snake him responsible for everything uttered by every
one of those who support him.—( lear.) It would be very
unjust to charge the Noble Lord with the responsibility of
everything that may be said at. Anti-Corn-law meetings. It
would be unjust to charge him with participating in the senti-
ments of those who denounced the landlords as being cold-
blooded and selfish, and imensible to the sufferings of the
people. --( Hear, hear.) Why, then, should he make
me responsible for the after-dinner speeches et
Canterbury ? But, Sir, suppose I have always disclaimed
the statements attributed to my lion. Friend, why should I be
held responsible for the very language which I have disclaimed?
—( Hear, hear.) Is not this the tact, that when Mr. Wyse
was appointed to an important office under the Government, I
declared that I saw no objection to the appointment, as the
Honourable Gentleman was in every respect quali-
fied by character and ability, and his being a Roman
Catholic should not be an obstacle to his promotion.
I consider this a most important matter, said the Noble Lord,
speaking of the manner in which the Government behaved to
Roman Catholics. Can you expect them to consent to receive
favours from a Government whose supporters calumniated their
priesthood? What the Noble Lord really wished to effect is to
snake it impossible for Roman Catholics to accept favours from the
present Government, and then to turn round and say, See what a
gross injustice you have done to Roman Catholics, you have made
twenty appointments, and yet not one of them has been filled
by a Roman Catholic. You first strive to create an impedi-
ment by reviving unjust prejudices, and then you found an
unjust accusation against the Government fer not making
those appointments which you have deterred the Roman
Catholics from accepting. I stated publicly what my opinions
were on the subject of the position of the Roman Catholics, but I
had been taunted by lion. Gentlemen who say, 0, these are fine
declarations that you snake in debate, but you do not practice
them. Allow me to say, Sir, that that is a matter of great
difficulty.--(Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) I
recognise those principles which place the Roman Catholics on
an equality with their Protestant fellow-subjects. I say there
should be no practical disability. I speak in respect of every
office ; and I care not what prejudice these declarations may
create against me. I say now, whilst in the possession of
power, as I did when I was riot, that in every office
to which Catholics are eligible there should be no impediment
whatever to their appointment on the ground of religion.
Since Parliament last met, there was only one office of a judicial
nature vacant in Ireland ; it was an office in the Ecclesiastical
Court ; and I apprehend that no one but a member
of the Church of England ought to be appointed to
that situation. The appointment was placed at
my disposal by the Lord Primate. I stated to the
Primate that I would accept the patronage, but that I should
place in that situation the most eminent man at the bar, with-
out regard to anything except his professional qualifications.
I believe, Sir, I acted according to my promise, in appointing
one of the most eminent men at the Irish bar—Mr Keating.
He vacated the office of sergeant, and another vacancy took
place. ?low was that office filled? I wanted to
destroy the prejudices which it has been attempted
to create against the Government. 1 wanted to show
to the Irish people that I did not participate in the
opinions enunciated at election dinners, and that it was not in
the heat of debate that I gaveutterance to those sentiments
regarding the Irish Roman Catholics.—(Hear, hear.) I will
take the liberty of reading to the House a letter which I wrote
to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland on the subject of this ap-
pointment. It was not written in anticipation of this debate,
but in the course of the last year. It was dated the
22d August, 1843. ( The Right Hon. Baronet then
read extracts from his letter to Lord Dc Grey,
in which he strongly recommended the appointment of such
Roman Catholics as hail not joined in the agitation, or made
themselves obnoxious to the dispensers of patronage. The
letter proceeded to say that Roman Catholics ought to be
appointed to those situations which they were qualified to fill,
and, although preferable claims might be urged by
Protestants, on the ground of their attachment to the
Protestant Church, still that the rights of Roman
Catholics should not be merely nominal, but that they should
be placed on an equality of civil rights. The letter further
observed, that all hough for every office which would be va-
cant for the next ten years Protestants might be found highly
eligible, still if Roman Catholics were not appointed,
they were practically disqualified, and what motive
was held out .to them to refrain from joining in the
present agitation if every office was closed against them. It
might proably occur that fifty appointments would be made of
Prot,stants who had preferable claims. But why had they
preferable claims ? Because they had for a long series of years
been excluded from the privileges of their Roman Catholic
fellow-subjects, and were constantly cherished by the Go-
vernment. The policy and the laws were changed, and
they ought not to allow the effect of those former
causes of preference to influence present appointments. The
inferiority of Roman Catholics should not be shown by the ex-
clusive appointment of Protestants. Having read the extracts
of which the above is the substance, the Right Hon. Baronet
proceeded to say that Mr. Howley had been appointed to fill the
vacant situation. ) There is not the slightest doubt that if we had
not been anxious to appoint Roman Catholics, several professional
men could be found in the four Courts professing the Protestant
religion, and of equal legal ability.—( Hear, hear.) But did this
appointment satisfy Hon. Gentlemen opposite? No, it did not ;
far from it. Although Air. Howley was a Roman Catholic,
the Governmont was attacked in the severest manner for ap-
pointing him. That paper, which is the organ of Hon. Mem-
bers opposite, makes the following observations on the an-
nouncement of the appointment of Mr. Howley.
An lloN. AIEMBER—What paper?
Sir R. PEEL—The Morning Chronicle. The Right Hon.
Baronet then read an extract from an article in the Morning
Chronicle, which stated that though the Government had made
many absurd appointments, they had not made one so grossly
improper as that of Mr. Howley. The explanation of the reason
of this appointment was not difficult—it was only necessary to
suppose a little shallow cunning and a little blockheadism on
the part of the Cabinet, and the appointment was explained.—
(A laugh.) This, to be sure, said the Right Hon. Baronet,
was very encouraging to the Government to make Roman Ca-
tholic appointments. The Morning Chronicle proceeded to
say that the appointment of Mr. Howley was an insult to the li-
beral bar of Ireland, and that it was quite elear that Sir Robert
Peel's Government could not continue to govern that country.
—( Renewed laughter.) However, Mr. Howley had the moral
courage to retain his appointment to the sergeantcy, notwith-
standing the denunciations of the Noble Lord and the organ
which represented his party. How had the appointment of
that gentleman been received by the gentlemen of the county
of Tipperary, in which Mr. Howley was assistant-barrister ?
An address was presented to him, signed by 105 magistrates of
that county, congratulating him on his appointment, and
expressive of a deep sense of gratitude for the admirable manner
in which he had discharged the duties of assistant-barrister,
all coming forward to bear testimony to the integrity and
ability with which that -Roman Catholic gentleman had dis-
charged the duties of his office. There was also an address to
him from the grand jury, and another which I believe was
unanimously signed by every practising solicitor in the county
of Tipperary. Now, I say, then is this fair warfare against
the Government—is it fair towards the individual whom we
selected? Is it fair towards the character of an honourable
man, as soon as we gave him the fair reward of his professional
merit to .turn round upon him and injure his character and
depreciate his merit, in order that through him you might
strike a blow at the Conservative party ?—( Cheers. )
Sir, I think, this is an answer to the attempt of the Noble
Lord to involve me in the responsibility of expressions which
might have been used by gentlemen with whom I am connected.
Now, as to the disposition to 'encourage offensive or hostile
expressions used towards the Roman Catholic body. The
Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Shell) made an appear
.tome on that subject last night. The Right Hon. Gentleman
referred to some addresses from the Protestant Operative
Association in Dublin, and asked me whether I approved of
the sentiments contained in those addresses, and whether I
approved of the sentiments which were offensive to the Roman
Catholics of Ireland. I will read the answer to those addresses.
--(Mr. Shell here made some observation across the table
which we were unable to hear.) The Hight Hon. Gentleman
dropped his voice when he spoke. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man said " warm encouragement was given," and then a burst
of loud cheering prevented the rest of the passage being heard.
Now it often happens that' owing to the business which public
men have to discharge that they will pass over long ad-
dresses presented to them, and not read those addresses very
accurately, and then they return a common official answer,
very civil and courteous, but they never expect that those
answers will be brought forward in the House of Commons,
I am sure the House will allow me to do the Government just
tice on this point. I have had memorials addressed to me to
the same effect as that from the Protestant Operative Associa-
tion, I had one before the agitation began. I had one ad-
dressed to me in the year 184t2. It was from the Prates-
tont Operative Association of the City of Cork. In th e
memorial was this passage :—" We, the members of the Pro-
testant Operative Association of Cork, feel ourselves called
upon, by a sense of duty to ourselves, our country, and our
God, to address you on a subject of the first importance with
respect to the best interests and welfare of the community."
The subject was that of national education. "If the homilies
be true, and those who sealed them with their heart's-
blood have raised up a testimony against error which can
never be overthrown, then the priests of the Romish Church
are Antichrist—then are they the special instruments of the
devil."—( Loud laughter.) The climax improves as its pro-
ceeds, but I have read enough to show the nature of this
address. Now I will read to the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Sheil) my answer to that address. This was in De-
cember, 1842. The answer I returned was to the following
effect—" Sir, Ireceived your letter accompanying the address to
me from the Members of the Protestant Operative Association
of Cork. lam sorry that they felt themselves called upon by
their duty to God to express uncharitable sentiments in offen-
sive language."—( Cheers.) Now, 1 have shown the Right
Hon. Gentleman what my feelings were on the subject of
offensive expressions with respect to the faith of the Roman
Catholics.

responsibility rests for that military fei ce being in Ireland ?--
(Cheers. ) 1 oast to know o whom it is owing that our ex-
peetatieti. and hopes iit pree rising reduced estimates were de-
feated ? I want to put that fairly before the country—before
the intelligent and reasoning classes of the comnosnity, and to
make an appeal in the House to ail impartial men.—( Cheers. )
We took office in September, 1841, and in March, 1843, so
tar from having evinced any disposition to govern by military
force, I will state what the real force in- Ireland was
at the two periods that I have mentioned. When we
took office on the Ist of August, 1841, we found the force in
'lreland to be 14,822. On the Ist of September, the force was
16.257 rank and file. In Nlarch 1843, there were only 13.500
Thus between the two periods that I have mentioned the force
was reduced from 16,200 men to 13,500.—(Cheers.) That
shows that there was no disposition on our parts to rule with a
military force. In March 1843, began that systematic
agitation which was riot the consequence of any
act of the Government—for which we were charged
with no injustice or any undue partiality. No; my
belief is, that there existed a strong and settled deter-
mination in certain quarters that we should not be successful.
—( Cheers.) That determination was taken, and it was acted
upon.—(Continued cheers.) About this time the poor-rate
began to be levied. Throughout many parts of Ireland there
was great dissatisfaction with the poor-law—an Act brought in
and passed by the Noble Lord, the Member for London, and
supported, I admit, by me. But that Act was most unfortu-
nate in some of its provisions, for it subjected every occupier,
almost without exception, to the payment of the poor-rate.
There were thousands of instances in the west of Ireland wherein
rates from three farthings to three-halfpence in the pound were
demanded. There was almost universal consternation and
alarm. It became our duty to apply a remedy to the blunders
which the Act contained. I don't say anything about neg-
ligence.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Those clauses were introduced in the
House of Lords.—( Hear, from the Opposition. )
Sir R. PEEL-1 beg pardon then. Still, the alterations
were adopted by the Government, and that unfortunate mis-
take I have alluded to did cause a multitude of annoyances,
which created great discontent and vexation in many districts
of Ireland. But I will say no more on these subjects. I con-
fess I was anxious to pay the Noble Lord back in his own coin.
—(Laughter. ) I have tried to do so—( Hear, hear)--he
offered it to sue in the first instance, and having returned him
with great pleasure that which I sincerely believe him entitled
to—(Laughter)—l will proceed to other matters. Well, as I
have said that Act was a most unfortunate one,
Concurrent with the demand for the rates under it, agricul-
tural distress visited Ireland, and its effects were most severely
felt. Concurrently too with these things the new tariff I had
the honour to propose began to be felt. Ido believe that the
reduction of price caused by the tariff, following closely on
the demand for the poor-rate, alienated the minds of
the people from the Government—l do believe that
these two countries, the poor-rate being for the
first time levied at a period of considerable agricul-
tural depression—did give great facilities to the agitation.
—(Cheers.) The country at that time was in a very peculiar
state. In the West of Ireland you had great excitement, and,
consequently, great congregations of people, whose embittered
minds were all dexterously directed against the present Go-
vernment.—( Hear, hear.) They were all demanding the abo-
lition of poor-rates—l am sorry to say not a few also looked
to a serious inroad upon rents.—( Hear, hear.) Then
unhappily came the determination to agitate for the repeal of
the union.—( Hear, hear.) We watched the progress of that
agitation with the deepest regret, and, after proper deliberation,
we determined in what mode to deal with it.—( Hear, hear. )
We are now charged with supineness, and with permitting
these meetings to continue in order to entrap men of eminence
into a violation of the law. I declare here in public
that that accusation is utterly false and without
any shadow of a foundation.—( Great cheering.) We
determined at once not to apply to Parliament for new
powers.—(Loud cheers.) I confess, after the long experience
I have now had of public life, that I am not at all favourable to
any application to Parliament for any increase of the ordinary
powers of the Government.—(Loud cheers.) I don't think
there is anything which has a greater tendency to impair the
ordinary power of the law than to listen to applications
founded, as they generally are, en local alarms, to get
some extraordinary powers from the Legislature in aid of
the Executive.—( Hear, hear.) So far from adding to the
authority of the Government, in my opinion it tends to weaken
it.—( General cheers.) The evil effect of these extraordinary
powers is particularly marked in this—that no man relies on
the ordinary law—nay, the people get out of the habit of look-
ing to protection for, or exerting the ordinary powers which,
the law affords.—( Hear, hear.) Now the Government, our
predecessors, did not take the same course.—(Cheers.) Hon.
Gentlemen opposite, amongst them several members and many
more supporters of the late Government, charge us with
supineness in the first instance, and then with precipitate
vigour in the second.—(Hear, hear.) Now, I tell you to re-
collect that you were not content to take our course—you
were not content in your time to rely en the ordinary forms
of the law—(Loui cheers)—you applied to Parliament—
Lord J. RUSSELL—And you supported us.—(Cheers.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL—I did support you.—(lronical
cheers.) I did not try to aggravate the difficulties of your po-
sition.—(Cheers.) 1 entered into no confederacy with those
who were destitute of any honourable or sincere sympathy
with me.—(Great cheering.) But you applied to Parliament,
and got from it a new Act, and a tolerably strong one it is.
Do you forget it ? Here it is ; and it is intituled an Act
for the more effectual suppressing of disturbances, and also of
dangerous Societies in Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) It is, I as-
sure you, a very stout Act of Parliament. It recites, that the
laws are inadequate, and what do you think it enacts ? That
the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, byproclamation, may supersede
the ordinary tribunals of the country, and order the trial of
delinquents to take place—not before a judge—not
by a jury—but by a court to be formed of
from seven to fifteen officers. That is your Act !
We relied on the efficacy of the existing law ; the Noble Lord
did not. He took these precautions against those signal fires ;
he passed a Bill, by which it was enacted that "no person
should make any fire, bonfire, light, flash, or blaze—( Laughter)
—or any signal by smoke—(Laughter)—or be present at the
making of such signal." This was the Noble Lord's Act ;
the Government thought it necessary, and therefore they
passed it. lam only showing that the Government felt the
extent of the evil to be so great that it 'asked extraordinary
powers to put it down. Thus, lighting a fire, or making
signals by fire, blaze, or smoke, was made an offence, punish-
able by martial law, and the persons committing it were to be
tried by a court-martial, consisting of not more than nine
officers, nor less than five.—( Cheers.) We asked no such
powers ; we all concurred in trusting to the ordinary energies
of the law, and in not adopting the system of the Whig
Government. \Ve had the support of the Protestants of Ire-
land, and that of the Roman Catholics, who were opposed to the
agitation. We were determined not to avail ourselves of the
offers made by them ; we determined not to avail ourselves
of the yeomanry force that was ready to come forward in aid
of the Government. They made a voluntary tender of their
assistance ; but we knew the consequence of accepting that
assistance.—( Hear, hear.) We knew that the consequence of
accepting that assistance must be the raising of a spirit of re-
ligious animosity in the people; we knew that we could not
have embodied the yeomanry force that was offered us ; that
we could not call the Protestants of the north to the aid of the
Government without running the risk of engendering re-
ligious animosities it would have required the lapse of years to
allay.—( Hear, hear.) We were determined, except only in
the last extremity, to waive any such assistance. But we not
only lost the aid—we discouraged and dispirited many of those
friends. Our only reliance was, then, on the ordinary vigour
of the law. The charge against us is, that we were supine at
first ; to that I give a peremptory denial.—(Cheers.) I say
we gave public proclamation of the view we took of the repeal
agitation. As Ministers of the Crown we gave it ;at the end
hear.)
of the last session of Parliament we advised her Majesty to
declare from the Throne her disapprobation.—(hear,
You say we issued no proclamation in the name
of the Crown. What proclamation could speak in more
emphatic language, in more emphatic terms, than the proclama-
tion made by her Majesty from the Throne?—(Cheers.) Her
Majesty said, " I have observed with the deepest concern the
efforts made to stir up discontent and disaffection among my
subjects in Ireland, and to excite them to demand a Repeal of
the Legislative Union." Her Majesty further said, "I am de-
termined to maintain inviolate the bond of connection between
the two countries, and I hope my subjects will discourage this
pernicious agitation, which disturbs the industry, retards the
improvement of the country, and excites feelings of mutual
animosity." That was the proclamation made by the Govern-
ment( hwithe s . respect to this agitation. We dismissed the magis.
trates who took part in the repeal agitation. Was that no sig-
nificant indication of the intentions of the Government?
c
without a previous proclamation. I believe the Noble
_er)you complain that we dismissed them
Lord opposite considered himself entitled to dismiss
Mr. Frost from the magistracy for being a member
of the National Convention !—(Loud cheers.) The Noble
Lord had written to Mr. Frost whom he had appointed a
magistrate—(Cheers)—asking
,
him whether or not ho was a
member of that Convention. The Noble Lord, I believe, at
first thought the answer satisfactory, and made no comments
on
on it. He subsequently dismissed him, not
which
any
seditiousexpressand
le did not prosecute
act, but for taking part in meetings at
a
inflammatory language was used. I think
him, but he thought himself entitled to dismiss him without a
proclamation.—(Cheers.) We did dismiss magistrates for
of the two
taking part in an agitation for the separation.t
countries, and we think w• were justified in . But we also
gave these instructions to the Lord-Lieutenant:—" The moment
you entitled by law to interfere with meetings that may
endanger the public peace, that moment we authorise you, and
desire that you will put them down." I want to show that the
charge against us, that we remained dormant and with folded
are
arms, looking on at these meetings, is utterly without foun-
dation. It was our intention to interfere whenever

the law should enable us to do so.--(Hear, hear.)
But if these meetings were not legal, and as they still con-
tinued to be held then, it is said that we should have called in
the military power to disperse them ; but in what a condition
we would have been in if we had used force. But there were
periods when it is said we might have interfered according to
law. There was to have been a g.eat meeting at Cashel, and
the Lord-Lieutenant sent down a gentleman well qualified to
confer with the magistrates. His instructions to them
were, that if they apprehended any danger—such as a
firm-minded and sensible man might apprehend--
then, and not till then, were they to order the
meeting to be dispersed ; but the meeting was not to
be interfered with, unless men of firm and strong minds testi-
fied that they apprehended danger from the meetings of the
people. At a Cabinet Council, held on the 15th April, 1843,
we issued instructions to the Irish Government that we thought
they should consult the Lord Lieutenants of the different
counties where those meetings were about or likely to be held,
and if those meetings gave apprehension to the people, thereby
creating reasonable grounds for alarm in the minds of firm
and sensible persons, then might the Irish Government issue
a proclamation calling upon all lawful subjects of her Majesty
not to go to that meeting ; but if persons persevered after
this notice in coming to that meeting, then they
must use coercion. Then there was another meeting respecting
which we had every reason to think there would have been a
collision, and when we heard that there was to be this great
meeting at Skibereen to consider the question of repeal, we
again advised the Irish Government that if those proceedings
gave apprehension to reasonable and firm-minded men, then,
and not till then, must the authorities interfere. Then there
were other meetings held at Dungarvon, and another at Clones.
Why did we not interfere with these meetings? Simply
because those apprehensions were not expressed, and would we
have been mad enough to provoke a collision ?—(Cheers.)
Where was the necessity for calling out the military but when
we had apprehensions of meetings being held where the public
peace was likely to be perilled ? Then we gave orders that a
proclamation should be issued. The magistrates of Dungarvon
addressed the Government, and expressed their apprehensions
of danger to the public peace. The Government directed that
if affidavits were properly. and regularly sworn to that effect,
then the magistates might Interfere, and order the meeting not
to be held ; but no interference was called for, and, therefore,
was not necessary. We had an objection to issue those pro-
clamations where there was no necessity. We had no covert
design to entrap men into the commission of conspiracy or
sedition. We did hope that this state of things would cease.
We wished to see matters return of themselves to repose and
quiet. We wished this pernicious agitation to cease of itself,
without the application of force. We thought it our duty to
take every precaution that prudence with forbearance might
dictate, although you-now charge rue with a desire to govern Ire-
land with military force, while we were doing all in our power
to obviate and prevent such a grievous and lamentable necessity.
The meeting was held on the anniversary of a certain day—
the anniversary of the Irish rebellion.—( Hear, hear.) I
wished to conduct nay defence with as little acrimony as pos.

Mr. SHEIL—I did not think you held such sentiments.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—And I wish to confirm you
in that impression.—(Lord laughter.) I must in justice
to the members of the Association, say that my letter was cer-
tainly received in a very becoming manner. It is but justice
to them to read how they received my rebuke : "We fee
great pleasure in acknowledging the receipt of your letter,"—
(Great laughter.) Really it is a most becoming answer to my
letter. "We feel great pleasure in acknowledging your reply
to the address of the Association on the subject of nationa
education. We beg to offer our Warmest thanks for the promp
and gentlemanly manner—( Roars of laughter)—in which you
answer our communication. It was what we expected—( Shouts
of laughter.) The reply itself has not disappointed our ex-
pectations."—( Continued laughter.) There was another ad-
dress to her Majesty en the same subject.
Mr SHEIL—That is from Dublin?

Sir R. PEEL—This is from Dublin, but mine was fre .
Cork. My Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary for the Home
Department was requested to lay the address before her Majesty,
and I hold in.my hand the answer he returned. But I had
better not read it to the House.—(Cries of " Yes, yes.")
Well, then, any Right Hon. Friend said " I cannot commend
a passage in the address which I find tends to insult a large
class of her Majesty's subjects, or which, at any rate, is open to
misconstruction ; and I cannot think that such an address is
fit to be laid before her Majesty." Now observe, this was in
the year 1842, and 1 do think that nothing is more indicative
than this of the spirit in which we were desirous of administer-
ing the Government of Ireland, and that we were content to
relinquish support rather than gain it by fomenting prejudices.
—(Cheers.) I come now to the conduct of her Majesty's Go-
vernment with respect to the recent trials. We took office in Sep-
tember, 1841, and up to March, 1843, there appeared no great
dissatisfaction with the manner in which the Government was
conducted. I have shown you that we were desirous of abat-
ing religious animosities ; and we did what we could to stop
any attempt to insult the faith of Roman Catholics. We have
been charged with a desire to govern Ireland by military forcee
Yost have admitted that the necessity existed for that force
being in Ireland. Yes, and I want to know with whom the

01i3

Bible, and I will only state what is absolutely necessary in
that dcfence. Thi, meting was held on the anniversary of
the Irish rebellion and in the county of Tipperary.—(hear,
hea-. ) The inhabitants of that county were called together,
and in a short time after it was the scene of one of the most
horrible tragedies in the records of crime.—( Hear, hear.) It
was a eounty also in which agrarian disturbances prevailed.
Why were those scenes selected for the meetings ‘shich took
place on the Hill of Tara, at Mullaghrnast, and Clontarf?
Every appeal was made by some of the speakers to revive the
bitter animosities of barliarous times, and to evoke that fell
spirit which exasperated the different races against each other.
—( hear, hear.) Now, look to the day chosen and the scene
of the meetings, anti I ask you, was there not evidence of the
existence of a conspiracy to effect a legal object by illegal
means ?—( Cheers.) Not by the present use of those means,
but by the display of physical force. But it may lie asked,
why did you interfere at Clontarf and not before ? Why, this
is always the charge brought against those who act with
forbearance. You are charged with having forborne so long,
and acting at length, if you show the least forbearance. But
we interfered with the Clontarf meeting on this account : It
was the second meeting which was held in the neighbourhood
of the metropolis. The Clontarf meeting followed the meetings
of Tara and Mullaglimast, but it had this distinguishing cha-
racter, that there was a military array attending the meeting
at Clontarf—repeal cavalry were invited to attend the meeting.
Were cavalry necessary for the purpose of petitioning Parlia-
ment ?—(Cheers.) They were invited by proclamation to at-
tend as a military body, and military terms were used through-
out the proclamation which was issued from the Corn Exchange.
Mr. ROCHE—It did not issue from the Corn Exchange.
Sir R. PEEL—I think the documents will bear me out, and
lam pretty sure that the first proclamation bears the same
proof of having issued from the Corn Exchange as the second
proclamation.—(Hear, hear.) Am I right in what I state ?
( Loud cheers.) (The Right Hon. Gentleman then read the
proclamation respecting the repeal cavalry, which has
been so often referred to, and which was dated the Corn
Exchange on the 3d September.) Why did we order this
meeting to be suppressed;; When this proclamation was issued
we consulted the Lord Chancellor, the Attorney and Solicitor-
Generals, on the subject, and we put this question to them—
Whether independently:of other circumstances, this summoning
of a meeting in military array, with military organization, con-
stituted an illegal meeting? because if it did we were deter-
mined on interfering by proclamation. The answer we re-
ceived was, that that particular meeting differed in character
from the meetings which were held in Cashel and Alullagh-
mast, not on account of the numbers who assembled, hut on
account of its military character ; and that it was therefore
illegal, and that the Government would be warranted in issu-
ing a proclamation to suppress it. We resolved on issuing
that proclamation, and the reason why it was issued so; late has
been so fully explained, that I will not go over the same
ground again. The shortness of the time was unavoidable. It
has been said that we did not issue the proclamation till late on
the day—till five or six in the evening. I can refute that state-
ment by a reference to the counter proclamation referred to by
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell). His
counter proclamation was issued on Saturday the 7th at three
o'clock.--(Cheers.) Now observe that this proclamation must
have been printed and arranged, and that it is dated at three
o'clock.—( Hear, hear.) I lament the shortness of
the time, but do not, far the purpose of aggravating
the charge against the Government, depart from
the real. facts.—( Cheers.) We determined on occupy-
ing the ground, and making such a demonstration as would
prevent the possibility of a collision, and we determined also,
after the notice we gave at the close of the session in the speech
from the Throne of our determination on the subject of the
repeal of the union, and after the dismissal of the magistrates, to
prosecute the parties who were instrumental in getting up those
meetings, and we determined on prosecuting them for that
conspiracy, of which we have convicted them.—( Cheers.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had asked why we did
not prosecute the printers, and my Right Hon. Friend never
had answered that question. The Government would then
have been covered with ridicule for not striking at the authors
of the danger, but contenting themselves with the
punishment of those who were the mere instruments.—
( Hear, hear.) Sir, I will not go into the history of these
transactions ; but I ask the House to remember the references
to the United States, the publication of the speeches which the
son of the President thought it decent for him to deliver ; the
declaration of the son of the chief executive officer of the
United States says —" but the libation of freedom must some-
times be quaffed in blood." The reason why we read the ex-
tracts from the newspapers was, that the writer belonged to an
Association which undertook their circulation. Those news-
papers contained appeals to the army—strong, continued ap-
peals to every prejudice which could be raised in the mind of
the Celt against the Saxon. He asked the House to bear in
mind the scenes which were chosen for their meetings, scenes
selected for the express purpose of reminding the Irish population
of events in past history which they could not reflect upon with-
out feeling irritated. lie called upon them to bear in mind
the selection of the 23d of May—he called upon them to re-
member the songs which were introduced by some one—
he knew not by whom—into the barracks of the troops, who
was responsible for the introduction of such songs as the fol-
lowing—
Who fears to speak of Ninety-Eight?
Who blushes at the name ?
When cowards mock the patriot's fate,
Who hangs his head for shame?
He's all a knave, or half a slave,
Who slights his country thus ;
But a true man, like you, man,
Will fill your glass with us.
Can you mistake the object of the studious circulation among
an inflammable people, of songs like that? Who was the re-
sponsible party ? Was it not the man, whomever it might be,
who belonged to an association having subordinate officers,
whose duty it was to circulate the newspapers containing these
songs, and these appeals, as a return for the subscriptions which
they received ?—( Hear, hear.) iShould we have been justified,
in the state in which the country then was, in declining to ap-
peal to our only instrument—the ordinary law of the country
for the repression of such evils? 1 will not go into the trials,
the subject is completely exhausted. We determined, how-
ever, to appeal to the law, and we did appeal to it. 1 declare
that nothing was further from our wish than that the jury
should be constituted won any other principles than such as
were consistent with perfect justice; or that Roman Ca-
tholics should be excluded from the jury, simply be-
cause they were Roman Catholics. We appealed to
the law and we succeeded ; the offence charged was within
the law. We had only one instrument—we had no Coercion
Act ; we determined not to avail ourselves of Protestant feel-
ing. You snake it a charge against us that we resorted to the
only instrument in our power. Let me put the House in
possession of the state in which the country was placed by
this continued agitation.—(.fear, hear.) The Right
lion. Baronet then read a description of Tipperary on
the 20th of October, 1843, when fires wens lighted on
the hills every night, and the inhabitants were in constant ex-
pectation of an insurrectionary movement.) Was this ( con-
tinued the Right lion. Baronet) for the purpose of petition?
—(lronical cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition
benches.) Was not this the result of that fearful system of
agitation which left us at last no alternative, if we really
wished to prevent an insurrectionary movement ? The only
recourse left to us was to summon the chief authors of this
agitation to answer for it to their country.—(Cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) We preferred the charge under the
same law by which you had prosecuted Vincent—under the
same law under which you had read newspapers and made
parties responsible for their publication. We brought the
charge, not against subordinate parties, but against
those who said "we will prove to you that thi,
do-nothing policy will not succeed ; we declare that
the Queen has power to repeal the Act of Union; we will
drive a coach and six through all your laws; we will prove
to you that we can evade and defeat the law." Well, then
We stepped forward, not in consequence of these
taunts, but in consequence of the state into which
the country had been brought by this pernicious
agitation. We said "We will go before the country
and ask whether these things aro tolerable where civil go-
vernment is maintained." I repeat, we succeeded. The
Bench unanimously declared that the law had not been per-
verted, but that it applied to the offence charged. The jury
brought in a discriminating and considerate verdict, and the par-
ties charged were convicted of the offence laid in the indictment.
We have done all this without coercion, without applying to
Parliament for extended powers.--(Cheers.) Having done all
this without the effusion of blood—( Cheers)—without conflict
or collision —( Reiterated cheers)—we find a powerful party
arrayed against us who find fault with us for our forbearance
at one time, and for our vigour at another.—( Cheers.) They
are wise after the results are known—(Cheers)—and every
effort taken during that anxious time to carry the law into
effect by the law has been tracked with: all the sagacity
of party, in order to find out some little error.—( Cheers.)
They charge us with being reckless—(Cheers)—with having
endeavoured to trample liberty under foot, with being desirous of
governing Ireland not according to law.—(Cheers.) If we
had taken such a course, if we had acted too precipitately, if we
had dispersed meetings which we were not legally entitled to
disperse, if we had charged any single individual with attending
an illegal meeting, and had failed, if we had selected some poor
printer for prosecution, and sent him to gaol—(Cheers)—the
walls of this House would have rung to sounds very, different to
those with which they are now ringing.—( Cheers.) You would
have told us that we interfered without necessity, that we had
evinced a desire to interfere with the rights of petition—
( Cheers)—that we had not the courage to select the favourites
of the people—( Cheers)—but that we had pursued the unmanly
and paltry course of inflicting vengeance upon a printer, but
that we had not dared to attack the powerful leadcrs.—(donti-
naed cheering.) I will, however, say, in the face of the coun-
try, that in repressing this agitation, we have had no assistance
from those on the other side.—( Loud Ministerial cheers. )
This I may say with perfect truth. (Continued
cheers.) You know what it is to be exposed to the
same -dangers.—( Cheers. ) You have had organised meetings
against the Constitution to contend with.—(Cheers.) It has
been your painful fate to have to deal with the fires at Bristol—
( Cheers)—with the attack upon Newport—(Cheers)—with an
insurrection in Canada—(Cheers)—and if at that time you
found a powerful party ranged against you—(Load cheers)—if
we had taken up M. Papineau—(A laugh)—l do not mean
taken up the man, but if we had espoused his cause—(Cheers)
--if, while your proceedings in Canada were pending, we had
brought forward a motion inculpating you for sending up ex
officio informations when the grand jury had ignored your bills
—if we had tracked every step taken by you, and contented
ourselves with expressing a faint condemnation of the acts of a
man who was advocating the cause of liberty, yon would have
found it a much more difficult task than you did to vindicate
the law.—(Cheers.) I have thus offered a vindication of the
Government for the forbearance which we manifested at first,
and for our determination to make use of no other instrument
than the law, and for our application to the law when the con-
tinuance of the agitation left us no other alternative.—
(Cheers.) I have now to state to the House the course of
policy which we hereafter propose to pursue. I do not
hesitate to declare, that, as the Hon. Gentleman says, we must
consider in the present state of Ireland what measures its pub-
lic interests may require, and I will not be driven, by the
fear of any taunts or of quotations from Hansard, from fully
and freely expressing my opinion as to the course which we
ought to pursue.—( Cheers.) I should be ashamed of myself
if I were prevented by the fear of being charged with incon-
sistency, from adopting any measures which I believed would
be conducive to the restoration of peace in that country.—
`.(Cheers.) My apprehensions on this important subject are
enhanced by the position of Ireland with respect to its physical
Wand to its moral wants—by its position with respect to its civil
and political, and more especially with respect to its religious
state. The Hon. and Learned Member for Cork attached
great, but not undue, importance to the influence of the physi-
cal condition of Ireland.—( Cheers.) He stated very truly
that the sense of political grievances would be much less if the
physical condition of the country were better.—(Cheers.) But
when lie was demanding an exact identity of the franchise, I
wonder it did not occur to him that, if wealth and intelligence
are to be taken into consideration in the bestowal of the fran-
chise in a country where seventy per cent. of the population
were in a state of absolute destitution, it must be
more dangerous to grant an extension of the franchise than in a
country where such a state of things is not in existence. There
is one subject, however, in the consideration of which, without
reference to political questions, we can all unite. I mean the
improvement of the social condition of Ireland—that was a
matter of the deepest consideration with us last session. The
Hon. and benevolent Member for Rochdale brought in a Bill
towards the end of the session, for improving the relations
between landlord and tenant. He promised the Hon. Gentle-
man to introduce some measure on the subject ; but we found
it was a matter involving such vast interests, that we could not
legislate on it safely, without full previous inquiry. We,
therefore, advised the appointment of a Commission,

composed of landlords of Ireland, distinguished equally
by th-eir rank and by their kind consideration for their tenants,
and to that Commission we intrusted that inquiry.. In order to
show that no religious feelings were mixed up in the appoint-
ment of the members of the Commission, it seas certainly our
wish that it should have consisted, in addition to the Earl of
Devon, of two Protestants and two Roman Catholics. The
gentlemen applied to were prevented by considerations of
health, and other imperative duties, from rendering their as-
sistance, and we proceeded therefore to constitute a Commission
suited to the public interest. .The relation of landlord and
tenant is of a peculiar nature in Ireland. Ido not hesitate •to
say that there is an unfair and unjust prejudice against the
great body of landlords in Ireland. 'fhere is a presumption
that they are guided by different principles from those which
guide the landlords in this country. to account is taken of
the peculiar position in which they are placed. \Ve could not
think of legislating on the subject without inquiring into the
practice of different parts of the country—the practice of the
north—taking the example of the estates where the tenants fire
prosperous, and bringing to light and exposure those
landlords who pervert the law—and discriminating
between the good landlords, the vast majority, and
the harsh and overbearing landlord. Such, we
thought, would afford the best foundation for useful
legislation. The Noble Lord referred the other night to a
pamphlet called " A Cry for Ireland." I have read it, and I
am shocked at how legal powers are, as it states, employed for
the purposes of oppression. The Noble Lord says, why not
bring in a short Act of Parliament? Will the Noble Lord per-
mit me to ask what has he been doing the last ten yers on this
subject if he thinks legislation necessary ? The Noble Lord
says that -a Commission is dangerous. Why that is an argu-
ment against every inquiry. \Ve could not inquire into the al-
leged grievances in \Vales without a Commission.
With respect . to the recommendation of a short
Act, the course pursued for the last ten years
was that some individual Member, not connected with the Go-
vernment, brought in a Bill, which, having been read a first
and second time, was allowed to go into Committee, when the
unfortunate Member was met with so many objections, that
no further progress was made, and the session passed without
anything being done. We could permit that to be done.
We could permit the useful Member for Rochdale (Mr. S.
Crawford) to adopt that course, but we thought it better to act
as we have done. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Cork
( Mr. O'Connell) recommends the repeal of all the statutes
passed on the subject since the union. The Honourable
and Learned Member for Dungarvon (Mr. Sheil)
said that they contemplated interfering with the law of
landlord and tenant, brought in by Mr. Lynch, which gave
much greater power to the landlord. I cannot pass by the
speech of the Hon. Member for Roscommon—and in that
speech I could not see one particle of party feeling.—(Cheers.)
The lion. Member had acknowledged that the Government
had a conviction that, under all the difficulties with which the

case was beset, they had pursued the best course. The Go-
vernment was influenced by no other motive than a just desire
to protect the rights of property, and, instead, of encouraging
vague expectation, to probe the evils of Ireland to the
bottom. With respect to the franchise, I will say that I should
wish to carry out the principles of the Bill for the removal of
the Catholic disabilities. I know not what may be the wish of
the Noble Lord, the Member for I.ondon, with respect
to the disturbance of the Reform Bill.—( Great laughter.)
but this much I will say, that with respect to the Irish franchise,
I think it ought to be substantially equal with that of Great
Britain. Ido not say that there should be an identity of fran-
chise between the two countries, because that is impossible;
but there ought to be a substantial equality of civil privileges
for Ireland, and compared with all the other parts of the em-
pire. That there ought to be an identity—that there ought to
be a nominal equality between the two countries, is what I
feel confident that many Hon. Gentlemen en the other side of
the House would be the last to desire, because gentlemen who had
been most anxious to deprecate the extension of what was
called the Chandos clause, would encourage the landlords to
refuse granting leases to the smaller class of tents. But I
shall give no opinion upon the subject, and only refer to that
argument in the course of the debate to show that there can
be no chance of identity of franchise between the two countries ;
but still, I think, it will be sufficient for the purposes of
this debate if I say that the franchise of the
two countries should be substantially equal.—( Hear.)
Sir, I now approach by far the most important subject of all—
the course which I think we should take with respect to the
Established Church. And I will, without reserve, and with
the same explicitness, follow the course my Noble
Friend, the Secretary for the Colonies, and my Right lion.
Friend, the Secretary for the Home Department. 1 find the
Protestant Reformed religion, and the Episcopal Church, esta-
blished by law in that country for 280 years; and I find the
Establishment ratified and confirmed by Acts of Parliament
partaking of the character of a solemn covenant, as much as
such Acts could partake of that character.—( Hear, hear.) It
was the intention of the Legislature, at the time of the union,
to assure the Protestants of England and Ireland that the
union should not endanger the Established Church in Ire-
land.—( Cheers.) I hope that gentlemen will not interrupt
me in what I have to say.—( Cheers.) At a subsequent period
—in 1820—I have found that those who passed the Bill of
Emancipation, and used all their influence to combat the ob-
jections of the Protestant portion of the people—always kept
in view that it was necessary to give an assurance to the Protes-
tants, that if they acquiesced in removing the disabilities
of the Roman Catholics, there should be security for the Es-
tablishment.—(Hear, hear.) I say, that so far as a compact
can have force, that compact has force. At the time of the
union with Scotland it was settled that Presbyterianism
should be the established religion of that country—and so it was
with Ireland.—(Hear.) I was astonished, Sir, to hear the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Edinburgh, in his
very eloquent speech, refer to the subject of slavery, and
state (as a proof that men sometimes changed their
opinions) that Mr. Wilberforce pulled down the present
Duke of Northumberland, then a Member of this House, and
told him not to moot the abolition of slavery. In that allusion
the Right Hon. Gentleman drew something upon his ima-
gination.—( A laugh.) I have referred to the report of
the debate, and 1 find that what Mr. Wilberforce said in
explanation was " 1 never said that slavery should not be
abolished. I only said that the abolition should be post-
poned until the minds of the negroes should be prepared by
education, to enjoy freedom." However that may have been,
I cannot see how it could affect the paragraph in the Act of
Union.—( Hear, hear.) I say also, that so far as authority
can go, the highest authority is in favour of that view of the
Act of Union. I do not speak of the Church, but of men
who were of the highest authority, as expressing the opinions
and feelings of the Catholic party. Could I name any-higher
authority than that of Mr. Burke, Mr. Grattan, Lord
Plunket, and Sir John Newport ?—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Burke
was the earliest, the ablest, and the most powerful advocate
of the Catholic claims. He wrote much on the subject
of the Penal Code, and those who had afterwards written
and spoken on the same subject, had only followed the argu-
ments which suggested themselves to his no-
tice.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Mr. Burke did not
conceal from himself any part of the truth, He said you have
an ecclesiastical establishment which, although it is the reli-
gion of the Prince and the landed proprietors, is not the reli-
gion of the majority of the people. Mr. Burke was of opinion
that the connexion of religion with the State should be
held fast. He wished well to the religion of the great num-
ber of the primary landed proprietors of the kingdom—that
religion which was one of the pillars of the Christian religion
in this country.—( Hear.) Such were the opinions of Burke.
Lord Plunket said he would fling to the winds the question
of the removal of the disabilities of Roman Catholics rather
than compromise the existence of the Established Church. The
dying request of Mr. Grattan was, that the removal of the dis-
abilities of Roman Catholics might be combined with the
maintenance of the Protestant Church in Ireland.—( Hear,
hear.) The opinion of Sir John Newport, who, though he
didi not rank so high in intellectual endowments, loved
his country, as well as either, he was in favour of
Catholic emancipation, but was of opinion that the Protestant
Church ought to be maintained as an establishment in that
country. The compact was of a sacred and solemn nature, which
guaranteed the preservation of the Protestant Church ; but if
he were convinced that the social welfare of Ireland required
a departure from the strict terms of that contract, and if it
were sought to bind up our legislative functions, so as that we
must not alter it, ho must say he was not prepared for that.—
( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) But he must at the same
time say, that nothing had so great a tendency to lower the
character of that House, as to break pledges solemnly made
by it—to make a compact ten years ago, and violate it now.—
( Hoar, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) Nothing could
be so destructive to the prospects of uture legislation,
and unless there be some strong and over-ruling necessity--
(Hear, from the Ministerial benches)—l will maintain the
Established Church in Ireland, not only on the existence of the
compact, and the opinions of the most eminent statesmen, but
on my own pure convictions.—(Hear, hear, from the Oppo-
sition benches.) I bring reason and conviction in aid of that
compact, and Ido not defend it upon a narrow ground. I do
not believe it would be for the interests of Ireland, or any
part of it, that I should accede to the motion for impairing
the Established Church in Ireland, and 1 will assign my
reasons. I am not now about to determine what would be
the best measures for a new state of society, in which there
were seven millions of Roman Catholics, and two millions
whose faith was identified with the Established Church. But
I talk of a country in which an Established Church has
existed for more than 200 years, and which has been
guaranteed by compacts, and by prescription. I consider that
under all the circumstances of the case the present is the
best regulation that could be effected. First of all I contend
for the necessity of an establishment, and I apprehend my
right to contend for that will not be disputed.
You have an example of an Establishment in England and
Scotland, and my conviction is that it is necessary for the put.--
poses of religion that an establishment of some kind or other
should exist.—( A laugh.) Do not take an advantage of an
expression. lam now addressing myself to the first step in the
argument of whether we should have establishments or not.
One of my reasons for maintaining an establishment in Ire-
land, and it is a cogent one I trust, is that if you had no
establishment in that country you would have more bitter
religious animosities than exist at present. I look,
therefore, to its effect upon Ireland ; but of this I am
perfectly certain, that if you establish a precedent
of having no establishment in Ireland little time will
elapse before that precedent will be sought to be ap-
plied to England. The other bight my Right Hon Friend,
the Member for Pontefract, gave notice of a motion to make
provision for the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland, to which
notice of amendment was given by the Hon. Member for Shef-
field, to the effect that no provision for the maintenance of the
secular Roman Catholic clergy in Ireland was just or expe-
dient, unless based on such a revision of the whole of the ec-
clesiastical system as to place the clergy of all deno-
minations upon a footing of perfect equality. The
Honourable Member for Montrose would not wait
for the passing of the Bill. He would not wait for
the motion, but on the day the original notice was given he
was good enough to signify his intention of applying the same
principle in Great Britain the moment that principle was
affirmed. He also gave notice of a motion for an address to
her Majesty, that she would be pleased to institute an inquiry
as to what number of her Majesty's subjects dissented from
the discipline of the Established Church, in England and
Scotland, as well as in Ireland, with a view to the appropria-
tion of the surplus revenues of the Church to the purposes
of education, or some other national charitable purposes.
Now, I say, if you apply this principle to Ireland, it will soon
be sought to apply the same principle to England.
I say, therefore, that my opinion is decidedly in favour of an
establishment; and it is decidedly in favour of maintaining the
Protestant Church as that establishment. —(Cheers ) I can-
not conceive a more important question than that which will
arise as to the nature of the relation between an Established
Church and the State. The Roman Catholics say, that they
will submit to no regulation by law. The Protestant Church
is controlled by law. You subject it to great restriction--
you have prevented the meeting of the convocation, you regu-
late its acts—you are jealous of its authority—you subject it to
the restraint of the law, but you subject it also to the milder
influence of favour, and of patronage. You claim for the Crown
that species of influence which is derived from the
nomination of a great part of the preferments in the Church.
And it is difficult to estimate the effect of that influence on the
Church. What do the Roman Catholics say ? They say we
do not want an endowment. We refuse to submit to any such
thing. You shall not bind us by any law. We will not sub-
mit to the nomination of spiritual persons being controlled by
the Crown. We refuse to enter into any connection with you;

and if you give us any endowment, we will not give you any
control in our affairs. The flight Hon. Gentleman the Mem-
ber for Kildare, speaking with great deliberation and point,
said, 4' If you try to solve the difficulty by entering into any
arrangement with the Pope, and if you obtain a concordat from
the supreme authority of the Church, even then, I tell yon,

that your regulations will not be observed hi
1 Ireland, and your authority will not be obeyed. I tell you tl.at
-tlie ecclesiastical euthoritiee in Ireland will rebel against your
arrangement." 1 hat was the declaration of the Right Hon.
Gentleman. We It he Hon. Gentleman then tell ore what
! equality there would be in giving an eudoenent to that Church
while it refuses to submit to those reeulatiens which are esta-
blished in this country with respee to the, Protestant Church ?
On the part of all Churches there is a dispesition to remonstrate
against the exercise uf eivil power. You think it necessary In
this, country to control the affairs of the Church fry
very strict enactments. In Scotland you have lately
found two parties in the Established Church claimiers
exemption from civil control and asking fur independence. In
that case you looked with the utmost jealousy at those claims.
You positively refused to accede to their demand of exemption
from civil authority, and you permitted a great part of that
Church to sever their cerinexion, rather than enter into any
arrangement. What would your own Church do? If the
Protestant Episcopalian Church asked for its present eroyerty
and rights—you being the Established Church—woulit you
permit that Church to have theM ? Or will you :allow she
authority of the civil power, the rights of the Crown eau'
others to presentation, and the title to endowments? But ttee
Roman Catholic s ys, we claim independence for ourselves ;
and yet you would give revenues to a Church, and authority to
'a
Church, that will not hold herself in allegiance.
And this you call equality !—( Loud cheers.) Now, I
do not believe that the preference is given to the Protestant
Episcopalian Church from any wish to show disrespect—least of
all to throw insult—upon the faith of others. Ido believe that
in this country a preference is given to the Protestant: .Episco•
lien Church from a preference to its doctrines—(Ciseers)—
from a decided preference to its doctriere—( Cheers)--arid I
contend also that that prefereece implies no insult 'won
those who dissent front its doctrines, and that: it
is extravagant to say that because I have a 1 Te-
ference for its doctrines, that it. involves me in the necre-
sity of persecuting any other Church whatever.—( Loud cheers
from all parts of the house. ) Whatever reasons lor you may
have for preferring the Establishment—and there is no necessity
for going into them at this moment—that does not imply that
we have any right whatever to quevion the right of others to
the fullest freedom in the exercise of their faith. I
turn to the propositions of the Hon. -Member for Sheffield (Mr.
Ward). I consider those prepositions exactly tantamount
to a total suppression of the Protestant Church in Ireland.—
( Hear, hear. ) That Hon. Gentleman says—Let us divide the
revenue of this Church —let
—.et us give 70,000/. to the Protes-
tant, 70,0001. to the Presbyterians, and 450,0001. to tee Boman
Catholics. Why there is no equality in this.—(Cheers. ) Se-
venty thousand pounds to the. Protestants who submit to cur
civil authority, and know no foreign one, and four hundred and
fifty thousand to a Church which prides itself on dividing that
authority, and being independent of all national control
whatever !—(Loud cheers.) 'Why this is the reverse of
equality—and it is more than that, it is gross injustice.—
( Cheers.) But a Noble Lord ( Howick) talked by analogy.
Is that Noble Lord prepared to permit those who acknowledge
allegiance in Church matters, not to the Crown of England
but to a foreign spiritual authcrity—is he, I ask, prepared to
allow the Catholic bishops to take their seats in the House of
Lords ? If he is not, then your principle of analogy is good
for nothing.—(Cheers.) Here is the religion guaranteed by
several Acts of Parliament, by long prescription, by
' thousands and thousands of ties of the strongest and
most endearing character, by an alliance with the
State of two hundred and fifty years, and we are told not to
maintain it, because its existence is inconvenient.—( Cheers. )
I ask, what, then, will promote religious peace in Ireland ?
Do you suppose that it will promote mutual concord and
peace to say to the Protestants—" Equality of franchises is es-
tablished. You now must give up your Church ?"—(Loud
cheers.) You little know the spirit you would evoke.—(Loud
cheers.) But your equality. your division of revenues, your
analogy, you never attempt to work out so that we may look
upon practical results. Supposing you to get your
proposed 450,0001. of revenue, what will you do with
the churches ?—( Hear, hear.) Do you mean to call
on the Protestants to sacrifice the endowments and give up the
churches too ?—(Cheers. ) You must do that, or where is
your analogy. If you give the endowments in the proportions
proposed, you must, by your own rule, give the churches
in the same proportion.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
I believe that a proposition more calculated to ensure discord
was never propounded.—( Hear, hear.) I am, therefore, pre-
pared to offer just as decided an objection to that proposal of
the Hon. Gentleman, as I am to oppose the transfer of the
revenues of the Establisument to the Roman Catholic Church.
There is another proposal. It was, not to venture at once to
destroy the Church, but to undermine and sap its foundations.
I think that course just as fatal as any other. I think that,
not to destroy life at once, but to infuse some
slow poison into the veins, which will ultimately
cause its destruction, is a course as little likely to promote
either social or religious peace, as either of the others.—
( Cheers.) I therefore come to the conclusion, founding my-
self upon compacts, on authority, and on the convictions of my
own mind, that the best course—and the course which 1, for
one, as far as my humble powers can effect it, the Government
will pursue—is to maintain in its integrity the Protestant
! Church Establishment.—(Loud and continued cheering. )
When I say in its integrity, I do not mean to exclude all
such reform% as may increase the efficiency of the Establish-
ment for the purposes of religion; but I do mean that I will
neither consent to overthrow the Church, or to establish three
forms of religion in Ireland, or to make a division of
the revenues of the Church between the Protestants,
the Presbyterians, and the Roman Catholics ; nor can
I consent to any of those smaller proposals, wheh mean
nothing if they do not mean the ultimate des ruction
of the Church. I have therefore stated the grounds
on which I propose to act with respect to the religious este..
blishments of Ireland ; does that compel me to exclude alto-
gether the consideration of the position of the Boman Catholic
Church in that country ? Am 1 to consider that Church as
altogether outcast, and to be excluded from any eonsideration
of regulations that may improve its condition ? Endowments
from the State you absolutely reject. We were assured that
by the voluntary endowments of individuals it might
be provided for without the violation of conscience,
and yet with the concession of a great boon.
The Noble Lord, the Member for Tiverton, threw out this
suggestion last session in a friendly spirit, and we professed our
readiness to consider it. As usual, we are met with a state-

ment that it will not be of the. slightest value ; it is rejected
on the authority of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman We
were assured that many Protestants would be disposed, for the
sake of promoting peace, and for the purpose of improving the
condition of the Church and charitable establishments,
to make voluntary endowments to the Catholic clergy.
The absence of such endowments is alluded to by Mr. Scurry,
in his work on Ireland, as a great evil. (The Right Ho-
nourable Baronet read the passage, which stated
that the doubts whether such funds would not be appropriated
to Protestant establishments, amounted to an absolute prohi-
bition to their being made.) That absolute prohibition (con-
tinued the Right Hon. Gentleman) we are willing to remove,
accompanied with such securities as would prevent any abuses,
that might arise from the removal. I was certainly surprised
to-night at hearing, for the first time, the c ffer met in the
manner ithas been. We are, however, still prepared to con-
sider our promise. There only remains the subject of edu-
eation.—( Mari hear.) I might refer you to the
course we have taken on national education as
sufficiently indicative of our determination to adopt
those measures we believe conducive to the welfare of Ireland,
even at the risk of offending many of our supporters. We pro-
pose in the present year to make a considerable increase in the
grant for the purposes of national education. I should
be very sorry to refuse to consider the means of still
further increasing that education. It has been suggested
that instruction in the science of agriculture might be usefully
given in Ireland, and advantageously engrafted on the present
system of education. ( Hear, hear.) I should be sorry
to exclude all considerations of matters of this kind; I
should be sorry to exclude a consideration of the means
of providing an academical education of a higher class
than that given in the national schools.—( Hear, hear.)
But at present we do propose to make a considerably
increased grant for the purposes of natronateducation. I have
now done. I thank the House for the attention with which it
has heard me.—(Cheers). I trust it feels that I have only
trespassed at such a length on its attention from a sense of the
necessity of discharging a public duty.—(Cheers.); I have
stated our general views of the policy and measures we intend
to adopt. In themselves they may not be immediate and
effectual remedies for the evils under which Ireland labours ;
but I trust I have said enough to show the spirit
in which the Government is prepared to consider
the questions connected with the legislation of Ireland,
I was reminded by the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for
Shrewsbury, in a very able speech, not the less to be admired
because it departed from the general rule of Parliamentary
usage—l was reminded by the Hon. Member—that I said that
the question of the state of Ireland was one of far too much im-
portance to be sacrificed and treated as a question of party ex-
pediency. I said, that however lion. Gentlemen alight be
attached to the party of the Government, that if, on the
question of the state of Ireland, they might consider larger and
more extensive measures necessary than we were inclined to
promote, I said, and I said with perfect truth, that I
thought this question one of such paramount importance, that
all questions of party consideration must give way to it, anti I
thought that any gentleman giving his vote was bound to give
a free vote--an unfettered vote on this important question. I
would on no question make any sacrifice of principle, but for
the good of Ireland. and for any question or measure tending
to promote her welfare, I would make any personal sacrifice, and
have made sacrifices before now, for the purpose of extending
peace to Ireland.—( Loud cheers.) I have for this end made
sacrifices of which the loss of office was the least. I
have suffered the loss of private friends—and the
alienation of personal attachment and private esteem.
(Cheers.) Why am I not this moment the representative, in-
stead of the rejected candidate of the University of Oxford ?
When we proposed emancipation in the loss of official
power was certain, and 1 yielded in the hope. of promotinu
peace in Ireland, but with deep emotion; and for the same
purpose I sacrificed also that which was the proudest distinction
of my life, the representation of the University of Oxford. I
regret that I must consider the present condition of Ireland as
not being what it ought to be ; but 1 hope the civil
power in Ireland will continue to maintain itself,
without the aid of the military power. While we
remain in office we will assert the power anti dignity of the
law.—(Loud cheers.) We will assert the power of the law
firmly, powerfully, and calmly, although we deprecate the use
of extreme measures, which should only be resorted to in cases
of the most urgent necessity ; but having resorted to them,
and vindicated the insulted dignity of the laws, we are satis-
fied. Our object was to restore peace and tranquillity, and
with them to bring prosperity and happiness to the country. We
have succeeded in restoring friendly relations with France
and all other foreign powers. We have succeeded in improving
the commerce of the country. We have succeeded in
securing a surplus in the revenue over the expenditure,
We have seen the revival of commercial and manufactur-
ing prosperity; but in the midst of these cheering prospects,
we have had to contend with that baneful " intestinurn et
domesticum bellum ;" and we cannot, I regret again to say,
express our satisfaction with the state of Ireland, but I trust,
however, that that alternative which party suggests, which
says that we cannot govern Ireland without military foree—..l
hope and trust that this suggestion is not well-founded. It is said
that by party influence, peace may be restored ; but I think
that without party influences or party motives, we
may be aisle to govern Ireland as she ought to be governed-
I see much cause for congratulation and hope, when we view
the noble applications of science and its wonderful progress. I
shall riot be surprised if in my day I see the interval between
Dublin and London shortened to within a twelve hours' journey.
The reports of engineers show that the interval between both
cities could be shortened to a journey of fourteen hours.—
( Hear, hear.) My belief is, that with the progress of ins-
provement it will be still further shortened. (Hears
hear.) I cannot help thinking that in the. upper classes‘ of
society there is a growing disposition to obliterate past
evaerr throughde the House.n
on t haenisinta
heard in debates e
sities.—( Hear, hear.) Ido not now h.
of Ireland as compared with what I have
differencesmie of creed, and
former times, without seem
distinctions of race.—( ear, hear, and cheers. )
obliterate
a strong disposition
When anything is said by Hop! Gentlemen. on the other side
eyontcreursnt
edthiant
itthtehatinitfluiserieree.oufdipetal?ilat'o;.
House in kindly disposition, it is met by Hon. Gentle-
of the
the law, may control agitation,
men opposite of the
.Itoman Catholic. persuasion in a spirit cor—
responding to the spirit in which it is made.—( Hear, heat.)
to . fogrgeit'revhi
I
IC
opinoiionneth,eCastrheowfoseerlelwaehsaoronafersetl
ana .
the best interests of Ireland—that it impedes iPm
co;iv
prevents the application of capital—prevents. thotired mentL
those grievances which I am persuaded can- he Letterressreo.
dressed by the application of individual interposition and

exertion than by anything that the Government can do.
I have a firm conviction that if peace and tranquillity were
restored in Ireland, no part of the British empire would make
such rapid progress in prosperity.—( Loud cheers.) There
are fsuilities and opportunities for improvement in that
country, which, I believe, would cause it to advance more
It:II:sin prosperity than any other portion of the empire.—
( .) I conclude by expressing an earnest hope that this
agitation, and all the evil consequences that follow from it,
will be permitted to subside.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Istisuffi rejoice, in whatever capacity I was, considering
i" would be the happiest day of my life when I could
see the beloved Sovereign of the realm fulfilling the fondest
a'!/11 of a heart—(Cheers)—full of affection towards all her
People, but mingling affection with sympathy and tenderness
towards Ireland--(Loud cheers)—and should hail with joy
the dawn of that auspicious day when she could alight, like
Jaime beneficent spirit, on the shores of Ireland, and lay the
foundations of the temple of peace,—(Cheers)—when she could,
in aeeents which, proceeding from the heart, would speak to
Sae heart rather than to the ear, call on her Irish subjects of all
classes and denominations—Protestant and Roman Catholic,
Saxon and,:telt —to forget the differences of creed and of race, 1
and bellow, that temple of peace of which she had laid the
lotindat;n/a—to hallow it with sacrifices holier than those with
which t'oe temples of old were hallowed—by the sacrifice of
tilos* 'evil passions that dishonour our common faith, and pre-
sent 7he union of heart and hand in defence of our common
30WY try. (The Right Hon. Gentleman eat down amidst the
loud and long-continued cheering of the Ministerial benches.)
!Sir Valentine Blake, Lord John Russell, and Mr. Roche,
food up together, for the purpose of addressing the House,but
t ne Noble Lord arid the Hon. Member for Cork gave way to
Sir VALENTINE BLAKE, who attempted to address the
House several times, but at each attempt was met with such
shouts as " Divide, divide," " Spoke, spoke," " Lord John
Russell," that the Hon. Gentleman was obliged to sit down,
after having moved the adjournment of the debate, amidst con-
Ititir sable laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh."
'Mr. ROCHE said he rose for the purpose of seconding the
tnetion of the Honourable Baronet who had just sat
down, and, usder present circumstances, he would not
attempt anything so unreasonable, but the House would recol-
lect that the party with which he and the Hon. Baronet were
connected, had been accused bet the Right Hon. Baronet of a
crane the grossest that human nature could be guilty ef,
• iely, that of willingly deluding their countrymen by a wilful
Fior
eversion of history..—(Laughter, and cries of "Oh, oh.")
nsidering the position which he held with regard to Ireland,
le did not think it would be very unreasonable to trespass
won the attention of the House for a few minutes.—(Cheers.)
'She Right Hon. Baronet had represented his Learned Col-
league as saying that the Parliament which existed before
1600 was a desirable one, and he charged them with
wishing to restore a corrupt Legislature. What
his Hen. and Learned Friend had said was, that in the 18
yeara previous to 1800 so country had made such strides in
advancement as Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Why did not the
Right Hon. Baronet controvert his Hon. Friend's statements
with regard to the subsequent acts of the Legislature towards
Ireland? He thought that such a course would have been
more appropriate. He regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet
did not give them more hopes for Ireland—that instead of
flinging unworthy appellations at the agitators, he did not
grapple with the grievances which made them agitators.—
( Hear, hear.) He might depend upon it, that if he did
not grapple with them, they would grapple with him.
—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) They were agitators, he would
never deny it; and he was sorry to say that they were likely
to continue agitators, for there appeared to be no disposition on
the part of the powerful majority in that House to take from
them their spell.—( Hear, hear.)
'f he motion for the adjournment was then withdrawn.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in rising to iwply, said that in the ex-
hausted state of the House he would not address them at any
great length, but there were some points which had bees
raised in the debate, to which he could not avoid adverting.
The Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State, for the
Hums Department, had taunted him with the course which
he had taken on that occasion. Now, he had stated last year,
his opinion with respect to repeal, and the repeal agitation,
but he did think the period when Mr. O'Connell was convicted
- in a Court of Law was not the proper period for saying any-
thing disparaging of that Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He
had stated when the country was to a large extent confided to
his care the preservation of the peace was essentially aided by
the course which Mr. O'Connell took with regard to
the Chartists and the trades' associations.—( Hear, hear.)
He should diver regret that he had subjected himself to that
imputation, for if any thing could be said in favour of tore
course which Mr. O'Connell had pursued for the preservation
ef the peace of the country, he thought that the present was
the moment for saying it.—(Loud cheers.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman had said, that he ( Lord John Russell) must wish to
see his motion defeated, because if he had not, said the Right
Hon. Gentleman, he would have proposed resolutions at once
for the yurpose of bringing under the consideration
of the douse measures to remedy the grievances of
Ireland. He • could not, however, but recolleet
that such a trotionhad been proposed in the course of last ses-
sion by an Irish representative, had been treated as a vote of
censure on the Government, and rejected. He was, therefore,
perfectly justified:in bringing.ferward the present motion. The
Right Hun. Secretary for the Home Department in speaking
of his (Lord J. Russell's) observations with regard to
Lord Lyndhurst had left out the purpose for which
those observations had been made. The traversers in Ireland
had been indicted for attempting to excite feelings of ill-will in
the minds of the people of Ireland against the people of Eng-
land, and is
_object was to show that Lord Lyndhurst, the
Noble Lord 7h7 Secretary for the Colonies, and Mr. Bradshaw,
(perhaps he might as *6ll have left his name out), had pre-
viously used expressions tending to irritate the people of Eng-
land against the people of Ireland.—(Cheers.)
Lord STANLEY—What words did I make use of ?
Lord J. RUSSELL—The words used by the Noble Lord
were " minions of Popery."
Lord STANLEY—Those were not my words. They were
cited ,by me as used by the Hon. Member for St. Alban's, on
the other side, and were never applied to Catholics at all—
(Ministerial cheering)—but to the Noble Lord and the mem-
bers of the Government who acted with him.—(Cheers and
counter cheers.) The denial that the words were ever used
by me, was made last session ; and if the Noble Lord will re-
fer to the debates, he will see that they were never used by me
except as a quotation from the Hon. Gentleman opposite,
and were never applied to Roman Catholics at all.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was not aware that the Noble
Lord had made this explanation last session. He had stated
that the words had been used by the Hon. Member fur Wood-
stock, but the adoption of those words by the Noble Lord—
Lord STANLEY—I never adopted the words.—(Cries of
" Oh, oh.'`)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought it extremely strange, if
the words had never been used that they should have been
quoted in the sense they had been by the Hon. Member
for Slitffield. But with respect to Lord Lyndhurst, he had
said nothing a.gainst that Noble Lord's character ; no one
could have a higher opinion of. that Noble Lord's talents
than he bad; but he contended that it was his hostility to
Ireland which had procured him his present office. He had
spoken of his carelessness in the performance of his judicial
duties. Perhaps that was an ill-considered expression ; but
he considered that the Noble Lord was more indebted for .his
high station to his political talents than to his judgments in
the Court of Equity ; and with regard to the charge of judicial
carelessness, none of those who had spoken on the other side had
taken the pains to contradict that, nor had any one thought proper
to defend the charge of the Chief Justice. The Attorney-Ge-
neral far Ireland, who had passed a high panegyric upon that
eminent person, would, he thought, have praised him for the
display of that calmness and sobriety. of demeanour which be-
came a judge in the exercise of his judicial functions • but the
Right Honourable Attorney-General had completely passed
by the charge without observation. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man, at the commencement of his speech, had stated that he
should not speak with the acrimony which he (Lord J. Rus-
sell) had used, but with great temper and forbearance.
Then the Right Hon. Gentleman went on to say, after some
description of what hts conduct had been, that he would
rather have cut off his right hand than have retained office in
the circumstances under which they (the late Administration)
retained office; and, with respect To Lord Plunket, he (Lord
John Russell) could not help thinking that the Right
Hen. Gentlemen's expressions savoured of some of that
acrimony which he had attributed to him (Lord John Russell).
Sterne of the circumstances connected with the retirement of
Lord Plunket he would now mention. It had been stated to
Lord Melbourne, that Lord Plunket at his then advanced age,
was desirous of relinquishing his post. Lord Campbell
•wished to know, as the dissolution was about to take place,
if he should go and stand as a candidate at the elec-
tion for Edinburgh. Lord Melbourne, on Lord
Plunket's desire to retire being communicated to
him, directed that the Attorney-General should be
made Lord Chancellor of Ireland. A few days after that had
been communicated to Lord Campbell, it was ascertained that
Lord Plunket was not desirous to retire. Subsequently it was
ascertained that Lord Plunket would retire, and then Lord
Campbell went to Ireland. No disrespect was ever intended
to Lord Plunket. He (Lord John Russell) had always
considered that Lord Plunket was the most eloquent
man he had ever heard in Parliament. But with re-
gard to Ireland the measures that would sustain autho-
rity which they proposed were always supported by gentlemen
opposite; Ade those measures which would conciliate the
people of that country, and tend to restore tranquil-
lity, were invariably obstructed by them. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the Coercion Bill. Did
he disapprove of that measure? If he did, he could much
better get an account of the details of it from the Noble
Lord (Lord Stanley) near him, as he was then
Secretary for Ireland, than from any other person.
The great reason which he (Lord J. Russell) had for the in-
troduction of this PAU was, for the protection of property and
the prevention ofoutrage and murder in the rural districts, and
for no abstract motive, and on these grounds he gave full con-
sent to it.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Gentleman
had spdken of his Landlord and Tenant Commission in Ireland.
He (Lord John Russell) looked upon that Commission with
some doubt. The Right Hon. Gentleman roust admit that it
was calculated to disturb the public mind, by raising indefinite
eapeetations in Ireland on the subject of tenautcy. He (Lord
John Russell) could not forget that when Mr. Drum-
mond used the expression that property had its
dna, as well as it,, rights, it drew down a strong
lecture from the Right Honourable Baronet opposite;
and now he (Lord J. Russell) had heard with some surprise the
Right Hon. Baronet declare that one of the objects of the
Commission would be to bring to light the abuses of this
syetem. The Right Hon. Baronet had spoken of the great
question of the Church, but he could not support the Right
Hon. Baronet's views on that subject. It had been said that
the Charch was meant for the instruction of the people, but
in one case of which he read to-day, there was
only one Protestant in the parish, and bow
could that clergyman be called the instructor of the people
wbeeld not the slightest communion with thousands ef
CAA° is his parish ? He thought there could be no doubt
about the feasibility. of paying the Catholic clergy) by
i
the State, when in the year 1825, Dr.
consented to the adoption of such a measure. The RightY
Doyle
Honourable Gentleman had said that he (Lord John Rus-
sell) had been very careful not to put his motion
in su4l3 a manner as should commit him to any
particular course if he were again to come into office.
Now, considering that he (Lord J. Russell) had proposed the
extension of the franchise in Ireland, both Parliamentary and
municipal, an increased grant to Maynooth, and a perfect
equality in civil rights with England, he did not
think that, during the ten years when the Right
Honourable Gentleman was out of office, he had proposed
any uvastires so distinct and so oomprehensive.—(Cheers.)
The liable Lord the Secretary for the Colonies cautioned him
to w h well the responsibity of bringirlfsorward this motion
i.
He ("Lord John Russell) thought there ibuch less respons-
bility In making the motion than in leaving the state of
Ireland undiseussed. If he had not brought forward this
motion the repeal party would be strengthened. It would be
said, that no matter how Ireland was governed, it would give no
concern to the English Parliament—that the House was very
busy about the Horse-racing Bill, but that it was nothing to
them what was done in Ireland.—( Cheers.) The whole course of
the debate appeared, on one side and the other, to induce
the people to think that their case would be considered in the
English House of Commons.—( Hear, hear.) The manner in
which he had been supported, and in which the debate had
been conducted, would show the Irish people that to - that
House their petitions should be addressed, and

RAL for the mild and conciliatory manner in which he
had expressed himself, and then proceeded to discuss
the question brought forward by Lord JOHN
RUSSELL. The Irish State trials formed one of the
main topics of his speech, and, in that respect
ho only followed the example of his pre-
decessors. The result of these trials, he said,
had no moral effect. One opinion, however, he
expressed, in which every Englishman, Scotsman,
and most Irishmen will agree—he could not conceive
a greater mischief that could happen to Ireland than
repeal, except the continuance of a military govern-
ment. This is an honourable admission from one
who took such a strong interest in the Canadian in-
surrection.

their grievances should be considered. He thought •
that -his proposition would tend to unite them
more and more with the English nation. He greatly regretted
that recriminations should be introduced into the debate and
be was sorry that the Noble Lord had thought proper to
read the terms of the Catholic oath.—(Cheers.) Who
could mistake the meaning of the Noble Lord ?—( Cheers. )
What would the Noble Lord say if be were a witness in a court
of justice, and au acrimonious lawyer were to remind him em-
phatically that he was sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth ? Would he not think that it
was intended to insinuate that he required the caution ?
—(Cheers.) What else could be the feeling of the Roman
Catholics—(Hear, hear)--and must it not be an encouragement
to others who were less informed than the Noble Lord, and
who were too apt to assert that the Catholics ought not
to be in Parliament, because they did not regard an oath ?
( Hear, hear.) He was far from wishing to hurt
the feelings of the Noble Lord, or injure him
in the estimation of the public. On the contrary, he
held the Noble Lord in the highest esteem, and when he was
invited by Lord Melbourne to take the lead of their party in
that House, when his Noble Friend succeeded, he expressed his
wish that the Noble Lord would return to the party with
whom he had acted in early life, when he (Lord J. Russell)
would be perfectly willing to follow him as leader—
( Cries of ' Hear, hear")—but he thought that with
the Noble Lord's talent and influence he ought to be careful
how he increased the unfriendly feelings between the different
classes of the people. It was necessary that they should give a
frank aid full confidence to the Roman Catholics so as to end
these melancholy distinctions.—(Cheers, and cries of " Di-
vide, divide.")
Strangers were ordered to withdraw. The House then
divided, when there:appeared—
Against the motion 324
For the motion
Majority against the motion
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Four o'Clock.

DR. REID ON VENTILATION.
On Monday, March 4, will be published, Bvo., with Diagrams, and
Three Hundred and Twenty Engravings on Wood, price 16s. cloth.
ILLUSTRATIONS of the THEORY and PRAC-
TICE of VENTILATION : with Remarks on Warming, Ex-
clusive Lighting, and the Communication of Sound. By D. )3.REID,
M.D., F.R.S.E., &c.
London : Longman, Brown, Green, and Longman.

NEW WORK BY MISS COSTELLO.
Now ready, in 2 vols. 13v0., with numerous Portraits,
MEMOIRS OF
EMINENT ENGLISIIWOMEN.
By MISS LOUISA STUART OOSTELLO.
Author of " A Pilgrimage to Auvergne ;" " 4. Summer amongst the

the Ifocages and Vines," &c.
Including Memoirs of Elizabeth of Hardwick, Countess of Shrews-
bury—Arabella Stuart—Catherine and Mary Grey—Elizabeth Stuart,
Queen of Bohemia—Lucy Harrington, Countess of Bedford—Pene-
lope Lady Rich—Frances Howard, Countess of Somerset—Margaret,
Countess of Essex—Mary Evelyn—The Countess of Desmond—The
Duchess of Newcastle—Lady Fanshawe, &c.
Richard Bentley, New Burlington-street,
(Publisher in Ordinary to her Majesty).

Mr. O'Cox3TELL and Sir R. PEEL then followed,
and Lord J. RUSSELL -replied. The House, at Four
o'Clock, divided, when the numbers were—

MR. LAIN G'S NEW WORK ON THE SEA-KINGS.
Published this day, 3 vols. BYo., 365. cloth,
THE CHRONICLE of the KINGS of NOR-
WAY, from the Earliest Period of the History of the Northern
Sea-Kings to the Middle of the Twelfth Century, commonly called
the Heimskringla. Translated from the Icelandic of SNORItO
STURLESON, with Notes, and a Preliminary Discourse, by
SAMUEL LAIN G, Author of " A Residence in Norway," " A Tour
in Sweden," " Notes of a Traveller," Ice.
London : Longman, Brown, Green, and Longmans.

For the motion .. 225
Against it
Majority against the motion -99

The debate on the Irish question, after a nine
nights discussion, was brought to a close last night.
It has been, on the whole, an interesting and ani-
mated, and—as the result, we trust, will show—a
useful, debate. As regards ability, the preponderance
has been decidedly on the side of the Opposition, for
without meaning to deny the skill and ingenuity dis-
played in the speeches of Lord STANLEY, Sir RonauT
PEEL, and the Attorney-General for Ireland, we
must say that no Ministerial display of eloquence
has at all equalled, or even come near, those made
by Messrs. MACAULAY, SIIEIL, Sir T. WILDE,
Lord Join RusSELL, and Lord Flowic K.
Of Mr. O'CoNNLLL's speech last night it may be
stated with perfect truth, that, without affecting any
lofty or impassioned rhetorical flights, it was just the
sort of speech suited to the occasion—manly, calm,
argumentative, and characterised by a tone almost
amounting to the conciliatory. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman frankly and fairly stated his opinions of
some of the proposed remedial measures of Govern-
ment, and alluding, in particular, to the franchise,
said—" You must make regulations for insisting on
the residence of freemen ; they should reside for three

ITER MAJESTY'S THEATRE.
SEASON 1844.
The following outline of the arrangements for the ensuing season
is respectfully presented to the Nobility, Subscribers, and the Public.
ENGAGEMENTS FOR THE OPERA.
Madame Grist, Madlle. M. Favanti (her first appearance at this
Theatre), Madame Bellini, Madame Dai Fiori, and Madame Persian!.
3ignor Mario, Sig. Correlli (his first appearance at this Theatre),
ilg. Dai Fiori, Sig. Felice (his first appearace at this Theatre), Sig.
Fornasari, Sig. F. Lablache, and Sig. Lablanche.
Director of the Music, Composer, and Conductor, Big. Costa.
THE BALLET.
Madile. Carlotta Grist, Madlle. Adelaide Frasi, of the Teatro di
Pergola, Florence (her first appearance at this theatre) ; Mad. Guy
Stephan ; Madlie. Scheifre, Madlle. Ferdinand, 31adlle. Planquet,
Madlle. Barville (their first appearance at this theatre) ; Madlle.
Faimy Elssler, and Madlle. Cerito ; M. St. Leon, M. Montassu (his
first appearance in this country), M. Coulon, M. Gosselin, M.
qouriet, M. Venafra, M. Bertram, and M. Perrot, and a numerous
and efficient Corps de Ballet.
Arrangements are also pending with Madile. Taglioni, and there is.
every probability that the talent of this eminent artiste will be se-
cured for a limited number of representations.

THEATRE ROYAL, DRURY-LANE,
THIS EVENING, FEBRUARY 24,

Will be repeated a New Grand Opera, in Three Acts, called THE
BOHEMIAN GIRL Count Arnheim, Mr. Borrani •' Thaddeus,
Mr. W. Harrison; Arline, Miss Raintorth; Queen of the Gipsies,
Miss Betts. Atter which,

Will be repeated Albert's celebrated. Ballet of THE BEAUTY
OF (MEN F. Marquis de San Lucar, M. Albert ; Benedict, M.
Hoguet Vestris; Beatrix, Mdlle. Fleury; Agnes, Mdlle. Clara
Webster; Julia, Madame Petit Stephan; Diana, Mdlle. O'Bryan.

THEATRE ROYAL, COVENT-GARDEN.
M. JULLIEN'S CONCERTS.
THIS EVENING. FEBRUARY 24,
PROGRAMME FOR THIS EVENING—PART I.
Overture, The Siege of Corinth—Rossini.
Quadrille, Opera Stars, in which will be introduced the most popular
Opera Dances—Jullien.
Grand Symphony (first movement), entitled The Power of Sound—
Spohr.
Solo, Cornet-a-pistons, Herr Koenig, The Storm- Roch Albert.
Valse, Mecklenburger Strelitz—Kcenig.•
The Destruction of Pompeii—Roch T
Albert.
PAR Bert.
Opera, Don Juan, with Solos—Mozart.
New Quadrille, The Irish Echoes—Jullien.
Solo, Violin, M. Delothe.
Weise, Le Bouquet Royai_Jullien.
[he English Quadrille—Jullten.

months before, and three months after, the registry, in
the borough. If you insist on the residence of freemen,
you will have made a very useful change. The
county franchise, too, is, I am told, to be altered. You
should give us the beneficial interest franchise. The
solvent test franchise would annihilate the county
constituency of Ireland. We are a poor country, and
if you do anything, you should do it generously, and
do it at once. You should give us a franchise equally
potential with that in England, so as to have a con-
stituency of the Irish counties equal in propor-
tion to the population of that of the Eng-
lish counties. If you legislate for us justly, I
shall hail your measure with satisfaction ; but we
must have no restriction of the franchise. We will
meet you cordially, if you will meet us cordially."
On the landlord-and-tenant question, Mr. O'CoNNELL
remarked that if the law were restored to the state
in which it was before the union, the landlord would
have no right to complain ; and with respect to
absenteeism, he added—"it ought to be punished as
a crime. You ought to impose an absentee-tax. Lay
a heavy impost on the absentee landlord in England,
so as to drive him back to the interests of his
wretched serfs." The Hon. and Learned Member
cloSed his speech by some pertinent and forcible com-
ments on the manifest injustice of maintaining the
present enormous Protestant Establishment in Ire-
land. Sir R. PEEL, who rose immediately after Mr.
O'CoNNELL, devoted a great portion of his speech to
an attack on Lord JOHN RUSSELL, for having spoken
in disparaging terms of the Chancellor, and to an
explanation of. the conduct of Government, as re-
garded their interference with the repeal monster
meetings. his explanation on this point was scarcely
necessary, for Sir JA➢LEs Gnenasi had already
travelled over the same ground, and the Premier did
little more than echo his statements. On the subject
of the Landlord .and Tenant Commission, he stated
that it was intended to make, not a partial and super-
ficial, but an honest, searching inquiry, into the
matter ; and with respect to the franchise, he
remarked, " I think it ought to be sub-
stantially equal with that of Great Britain.
I do not say that .there should be an
identity of franchise between the two countries, be-
cause that is impossible'; but this much I will say,
that, with regard to the Irish franchise, I think it
ought to be substantially equal with that of Great
Britain." With reference to the Protestant Church—
the monster-grievance of Ireland—Sir ROBERT PEEL
spoke out with far more energy and decision than
he is usually in the habit of exhibiting. " I
come to the conclusion," he said, " founding my-
self upon compacts, on authority, and on
the convictions of -my own mind, that the
best course—and the course which I for one, as
far as my humble powers can effect it—the Govern-
ment can pursue, is, to maintain in its integrity the
Protestant Church Establishment." This declaration
is decided and straightforward enough—there is no
fault to be found with it on that score—but unfor-
tunately it is decided and straightforward on the
wrong side. So long as the Protestant Establishment
continues on its present footing, there can be no sure
guarantee for Irish tranquillity. The race of agitators
is only to be extinguished by the extinction of, or at
any rate by a searching, comprehensive reform in,
the existing Protestant Church in the sister country.
We close our comments on the debate by remarking
that the remedial measures proposed by Government
for the pacification of Ireland, are passable enough
in their way, but are by no means characterised
by sufficient comprehensiveness and liberality to meet
the emergency of the case. Much more must be
done ere there can be the slightest hope that the
Repeal agitation will die away into insignificance.
Meantime thus much good has been affected by the
debate—it has shown Ireland that she has a far more
numerous body of staunch friends in the House of
Commons than she ever supposed she possessed ; and
we trust, therefore, that in future we shall hear less
about " the vile, brutal, arbitrary Saxons 1"

THEATRE ROYAL, HAYMARKET.
Mit. BENJAMIN WEBSTER, LESSEE..
THIS EVENING, FEBRUARY '24
Will be performed a New Comic Drama, entitled GRIST TO THE
MILL Marquis de Richeville, Mr. Charles Mathews ; Francine,
Madame Vestris.
After which, a New Comic Drama, entitled USED UP. Sir
Charles Coldstream; Bart., Mr. Charles Mathews; Sir Adonus
Leech, Mr Tilbury; Wurzle,Mr. James Bland; Mary, Miss Julia
Bennett; Lady Clutterbuck, Mrs. Humby.
To conclude with a New Fairy Extravaganza, entitled THE FAIR
ONE WITH THE GOLDEN LOCKS! King Lachrymoso,
1. Bland; Prince Graceful, Miss Y. Horton ; Queen Lucidora,
Miss Julia Bennett.

PRINCESS'S THEATRE, OXFORD.STREET.
LESSEE, Mr. J. M. MADDOX.
THIS EVENING, FEBRUARY 24,
Will be performed Bellini's Opera Seria, NORMA. Nino, Mr.
Wood; Oroveso, Mr. Wei s; Norma, Mrs. Wood; Adel lea, Miss
Grant; Clotilda, Miss Floyd.
After which, a New Comic Drama, called BLASE; or, The Man
in Search of a Sensation. Monsieur Blase, Mr. Keegey ; Groefer,
Mr. Paul Bedford ; Louise, Madame Eugenie Prosper; Madame
Pipou, Mrs. H. P. Grattan.
And other Entertainments.

THEATRE ROYAL, ADELPHI.
THIS EVENING, FEBRUARY 24,
Will be repeated, by permission of Charles Dickens, Esq., THE
CHRISTMAS CAROL. Principal Characters—Messrs. Q. Smith,
Wright, Lyon, Maynard, Forman, Miss Woolgar. Mrs. F. Mathews,
Miss Chaplin, and Miss Lee.
After which, the Tragedy of RICHARD THE THIBD.
chard, Mr. Wright • Lady Anne Miss E. Stanley.
To conclude with THE WRECK ASHORE. Principal Cha-
racters—Mrs. Yates, Miss Woolgar, Messrs. Lyon, 0. Smith, and
Wright.

DAV IDGE'S ROYAL SURREY THEATRE.
THIS EVENING, FEBRUARY 24,
Will be repeated LOVE'S SACRIFICE, supported by the entire
Company.
After which, A CHRISTMAS CAROL, by " Boz," with
splendid Appointments.
To conclude with THE BOHEMIANS OF PARIS,

THE WEATHER.—SUN OFFICE, FEB. 24.
THERMOMETER, Lowest, 35; Highest, 48; Noon. 43.
BAROMETER, 29.25.--Wain, S.W.

NOTE.—The number 32 on the Thermometer denotes the
freezing point, and 55 temperate. In Barometers fair is
usually placed opposite 30, and rain at 29.

HIGH WATER AT LONDON-BRIDGE THIS D.Y.
Morning • • 19 minutes after 5 I Evening .. 36 minutes after 5

SECOND EDITION..

Paris papers of Thursday have been received. On
that day the discussion on M. DE REMUSAT'S motion
was resumed and brought to a conclusion. The
motion was rejected by a majority of 30. The
papers contain no news of interest to the English
reader. The French funds were very firm, and the
market closed as follows :—Three per Cents., for
cash, 82.55 ; for Account, 82 60 ; Five per Cents.,
for cash, 125 85 ; for Account, 125 85 ; Bank of
France Shares, 3,270; Neapolitan, 103 63 ; Spanish,
321 ; Paris and Rouen Railroad, 832 50 ; Paria and
Orleans, 845.

The accounts from Madrid are to the 16th, and,
according to the Government papers, official dis-
patches had been received announcing a victory gained
by the QUEEN'S troops over the insurgents. In one
of these General RONCALI states that he had caused
seven officers who had fallen into the hands:of Gene-
ral PARDO to be shot. The names of these unfortu-
nate men were Lieutenant-Colonel Don ILDETONSO
VosoLls, Captain Don JOSE MENA, Lieutenants D.
Luis GIL, and D. P. PEREZ VLLLAPADIERNA, and
under-Lieutenants ALGARRO, MOLINA, and BLANCO.
The Government also received accounts that Co-
lonel PURZOA had taken two feluccas from the insur-
gents between Carthagena and Torrevieja.
A circular has been addressed to the Foreign Am-
bassadors, to the Grandees of Spain, and to the Clergy,
announcing to them that her MAJESTY had decided
on going as far as Aranjuez to meet her mother,
Queen CHRISTINA, and inviting them to accompany
her.

On the 16th, the Three per Cents. were quoted at
29i at 60 days, and the Fives, without Coupons, 20
cash, and 20} at 60 days.

Sir Robert Peel left town this morning for Windsor
Castle to attend her Majesty, but returns to town this
afternoon, the Right Hon. Baronet having a grand
Parliamentary dinner party in the evening at his re-
sidence in Whitehall-gardens. Near fifty Members of
the House of Commons have received invitations.

DISCOVERY OF THE HALVES or NOTES TO THE
AMOUNT op 1451.—Yesterday Mary Mitchell, a poor woman
living at No. 46, Hereford-street, Lisson-grove, stated to Mr.
Long, at the Mary
along
police-office, that on Wednesday evening
last, as she was walking along Drummond.street, near the terminus
of the London and Birmingham Railway, she picked up from the
pavement a paper parcel sealed, and on its being opened it was
found to contain the halves of notes to the amount of 1451. She
was anxious that they might be restored to their rightful owner,
and -vith that view she had made the matter known to the magis-
trate. The parcel now remains at the Court, and it is hoped that
the finder will be rewarded for her honesty.

TILE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRITARY ght, 1R4,4,

MARKET NE WS.-(11 HIS DAY.)
CO VENT-GARDEN.
We had a full average supply of both fruit and vegetables,
while the demand was, throughout, inactive, at but little
variation in prices :—Potatoes, from 2s 6d to 4s 6d per cwt ;
Spring Onions, 2s 3d to 4s 9d ; Coleworts or Greens, 2s 6d to
4s; Turnips, is 8d to 2s 9d; Carrots, 3s 6d to 5s 6d; and
Leeks, 8d to is 2d per dozen bunches; old Onions,
Is 9d to 2s 3d; Spinach, is 9d to 2s 3d; Apples, is 3d
to 4s; Pears, 6s to 12s; and Brocoli sprouts, Is 6d to 2s 3d
per half sieve,
NEWUATE AND I.33ADENUAI.I..
Although the supplies of both Game and Poultry .were
not to-day extensive, the demand ruled inactive, at barely
last week's prices :—Fowls, is 8d to 4s ; Chickens, Is 6d to 23;
Ducks, is to 2s 3d; Geese, 4s to 6s; Pigeons, 4d to 10d;
Turkeys, 4s to 95; Rabbits, 6d to is 6d; Hares, is 9d
to 2s 9d; Partridges, is to 2s; Pheasants, 2s 6d to 4s;
Wild Ducks, is 6d to 2s; Teal, 9cl to is 6d; Widgeons, is
to 15 6d ; Snipes, 6d to is ; Woodcocks, 2s to 3s 3d ; Plovers,
3d to 6d, each ; and Larks, is 3d per dozen. Although the
supply of Meat was tolerably good, the general demand was
steady, on the following terms :—Beef, from 2s 4d to 3s 4d ;
Mutton, 2s 8d to 3s 8d; Veal, 35 6d to 4s 8d; and Pork,
2s 6d to 48 2d per 81bs, by the carcase.
NEWPORT.
We had a steady demand for all kinds of Meat, at fully
previous rates.

HUNGEEPORD.
For each kind of Meat, we had a steady demand, at fully
last week's prices ; but,-otlierwise, the trade ruled heavy, at
barely late rates,

BILLINGSGATE.
The supply of fish was good, while the demand was steady,
at fully late currencies.
WHITECHAPEL.
For each kind of Meat we had a good demand, and prices
were well supported.

The prices of Wheaten Bread in the metropolis ere front
Sid to 90; of Household 60 to 8d per 41b loaf.

IVIAILIENT
Raw Hides, at per stone of 141bs—Best steers and heifers,
5,4 d to 5s 10d ; middling hides, 4s 6d to 5s 2d ; inferior do,
4s to 4s 4d. Sheep and Calf Skins, at per skin—Market
calf, 6s 6d to 85 ; long woolled sheep,: 4s 9d to 6s 6d ; short
do, 4s to 5s 3d ; shearlings, 4d to Bd. each, and lamb skins,
Is 3d to Is 9d each.
ErAYMAIMETS.
SMITUFIELD.—Coarse Meadow Hay, 21 10s to 3/ ; use-
ful ditto, 3/ 3s to 3/ lOs; fine Upland ditto, 31 12. to
3/ 16s ; Clover Hay, 31 to 51; Oat Straw, 1/ 66 to 1/ 8s ;
Wheat Straw, 1/ Bst to 1/ lOs per load. Supply very mode-
rate and trade dull.
CustnunLAND.—Coarse Meadow Hay, 2115 s to 3l 5s ; useful
ditto, 3l 8s to 31 145 • fine Upland ditto, 3/ 15s to 4/ ;
Clover Hay, 315 s to 4116 s ; Oat Straw, 117 s to 119 s ; Wheat
Straw, 1/ 10s,to 1/ 12s per load. Both hay and straw were
in fair average supply and heavy demand, at the above quo-
tations.
WurrEcitem..—Coarse Meadow Hay, 21 5s to 3/ ;
useful ditto, 3l 5s to 3/ 10s ; fine Upland ditto, 3/ 12s to
3l 16s ; Clover Hay, 3/ lOs to 5l 3s ; Oat Straw, 116 s to 118 s ;
Wheat Straw, 1/ 8s to 1/ lOs per load. A good supply
and a heavy trade.

WAKEFIELD CORN MARKET.—FRIDAY.
There has been a good attendance of buyers at this day's
market. The Wheat trade has ruled dull, and sales slow, at
a reduction of is to 2s per quarter. Barley is heavy sale; a
few select samples sold at a decline of is per quarter, but the
general runs must be noted is to 2s per quarter lower. In
Oats, Beans, and Shelling no material alteration.
Per qr. of 601 b. to the bushel.
OLD. Nuw.
Wheat, Suffolk, Essex, and Rent.. ..... Red....... —to 57 53 to 56
Ditto ditto White... 62 56 CO
Norfolk Red 55 48 53
Ditto ditto White... 58 52 56
Lincolnshire and Cambridge Red 55 48 93
Ditto ditto White... .--. 57 52 55
Yorkshire Red 55 47 53
Ditto ditto White... 57 50 54
Foreign Red 54 58
Ditto ditto ....... White... 56 60
Per quarter imperial.
Barley, Norfolk and Suffolk .............. .......„....... 37 54 35
Yorkshire and Lincolnshire 96 32 34
Grinding ....„...4.,............, ........ .
Foreign 35 92 51
Per qr. of 631 b. to the bushel.
Beane, Small fins .„...... ........... ..... ~.......
Ticks
Foreign
' Oats, Potato and Polai,d —s. —I. ... —P.
kea1inr......... 10.1. to 11d., Foreign —d to —d. pet Stone.
Sholling
...
Milt 4.......... 404 Ane 444. per 1.c,.d
Rapeseed ...... ........... .4 ....... ...... 23:.05. 241.05. 251. Os. per Lair.

MONEY AND COMMERCIAL NEWS
CITY, QUARTER TO THREE.

The Cotton market at LivJrpool closed quietly yesterday
and prices were about id. per lb. lower than last week.
Sales 5,000 bales.—There was a slight improvement in the
tone of the share market. Chester and Holyhead were 511;
Edinburgh and Glasgow, 57 ; Grand Junction, 222 ' • Liver-
pool and Manchester, 2211 ; Birmingham New, 39 ; Brighton,
42}; Manchester and Birmingham, 40 ; North Midland
New, 43; Paris and Lyons, 01. 165., ditto and Rouen, 311;
and South Eastern, 35i.
The division this morning in the House of Commons upon
the Irish question has been the subject, as a matter of course,
of universal conversation, and though, apparently, the majo-
rity is large against the motion of Lord John Russell, still,
with a force of 225 Members. approving of inquiry, it is
hoped that Ministers will come forward with some ameliora-
tive measures. Scarcely nny effect was produced upon the
Funds by the decision, and hopes are now entertained that
the real business of the country will be actively proceeded
proceeded with.
The transactions in the produce markets this week have
been to a moderate extent, Coffee being the article in which
there has been most speculation.
The Foreign market has been very quiet, and the French
mail has not brought any news of importance. Spanish
Actives obtain 23a to 4, and the Three per Cents. 33a to
but seem better now. Mexican have been 12a for the De-
ferred, Colombian ma to f, and Peruvian 20k. Portuguese
Converted have been rather lower, viz., 444 to 45*.

- The Railway Shares are in very little demand, but gene.
rally they are held rather firmer.
'1 he Funds have assumed rather a steadier aspect after flu

fluctuation of yesterday, and the speeulative sales of the
Hebrew party, based chiefly upon the Tahiti affair, have not
been followed by any large operations, though they have
necessarily left the market somewhat lower than it was pre-
viously. The Commissioners have not purchased to-day.
For present transfer Consols have been 97i to 97i A, and for
Account the same. Exchequer Bills have been 71s, to 695.
premium. The New Three-and-a-Half per Cents. obtain
1021 to A ; the Reduced, 103 A to ; and the Three per Cents.
98 to A, being steady. Bank Stock is 194 k to 195 A ; and
Tndia Stock, 277.
BRITISH FUNDS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK.
(From the Official List.)

,
Bank Stock ' 195 194% 195%
3 per Cent. Reduced Annuities
3 per Cent. Consols. Annuities IT%
354 per Cent. Reduced Annuities lO3 %
New 3% per Cent. Annuities - 102 14
Long Annuities, Expire sth Jan. 1860 l2 13-16
India Stock
Bank Stock for Account
Consols for Account 97%410i
Exchequer Bills, I%d. 1,4 d
1,0004
In 51X/4
Ditto Advertised — 66 pm.
FOREIGN FUNDS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK.
Buenos Ayres Bonds, 6 per Cent ........ 3554 36
Columbian Bonds
Mexican Bonds, 1837, 5 per Cent. . ...........
Ditto Deferred Stook lB%
Peruvian Bonds, 6 per Cents. —
Ditto for the Account 30%
Portuguese Bonds, 5 per Cent. —
Ditto Converted...-. .........................
Ditto for the Account
Spanish Bonds. Five per Cent
Ditto for the Account , 23,
Ditto Passive Bonds.
Ditto Three per Cent. Jr. 3:t
Ditto for the Account
Dutch 234 per Cents...,
Dutch 5 per Ceuta lO2
New Loan len 5 per Cents...—. lOl% 101
PRICES-OF SHAVAIS THIS DAY AT ONE.
issit.waltn. Pula. Pea FEI•RE
Chester and Holyhead , 5 550454 to
Distern Counties .5
Ditto New....^..................... PS . IL... .... • to
Eastern Union 5 ..,...... 5j4%... to -.
Edinburgh and Glasgow 4O 5O
Great Western .............»......... '',s .....».. ....." to -.-
Ditto 4 Shares) ...........
Ditto kitths l2 ..... .... 18% to
Hull and Selby
London and Brighton
London and Birmingham... Stock .. 2:8
London and South Western 41% 17% to --
Ditto Eighths
London nod Croydon ('hunk)... 13.3(
Manchester and Birmingham ... 40
Midland Counties lOO ......., 85
Northern and Eastern 45 56 to
Moab Midland ... ...... .....» ........ 100 .....».. 114
Paris and (Means ....a. ........ SO
Sheffield, Ashton-und...».....
yne.... 11216
Ditto 4 Shares
South Eastern and Dover 5O 55% to
York and North Midland ........ 54
Ditto New Shares
JOINT STOCK RANKS.
London Joint Stock •...•..... ...... .. 10 ••••••••• 13M54 ... to m.•

MANCHESTER STOCK EXCHANGE, FM. 23.—Our market
is much the same as yesterday, with the exception of Sheffield
and Manchester, which are in great demand. Our quotations
nve—Eastern Counties registered, 12} ; Manchester and Bir-
mingham, 40i ; Sheffield and Manchester, 69} ; Manchester
and Salford Water Works, 55 ex div. ; Manchester and
Leeds, 109 to 111.

LONDON INSTITUTION.—The soirees at this institu-
tion have always been in great favour with the proprietors
and their friends, and have never failed of being very well
attended. The managers have this season been at great
pains to increase their interest, and with good success. A
spirit and life seems to be now pervading these reunions,
which is very often wanting at such meetings, and without
which a flat insipidity invariably steals over the scene. As
heretofore, there is a promenade in the library, where tea and
coffee are provided from seven to eight o'clock. The tables
are furnished with objects of interest in art and science, and
the walls with paintings, &c. At eight o'clock there is a
lecture in the theatre of the institution, after which the
company return to the library. On Wednesday last, the
second soirée of the season was held. The tables were well
furnished with specimens. Among the pictures were two
originals by Edwin Lanseer, exhibited by Jacob Bell, which
excited considerable interest. The lecture was by Mr.
Brand°, on those curious chemical phenomena of which
fermentation is one, known under the name of actions by
contact or presence, or otherwise called catalytic actions.
The experiments selected for illustrating the ordinary pheno-
mena of chemical action, as also of the influence of aggrega-
tion, were very appropriate—so, likewise, were those illustra-
tive of mere contact action. They very clearly demonstrated
that there are two characters of chemical action, one in
which the acting body acts on account of the changes it un-
dergoes, the other in which it acts by its mere presence,
withot* undergoing any change. We entirely approve of
the subject of this lecture. It was very interesting to the
listeners generally, and it was very instructive, inasmuch as
it presented them with exceedingly clear and sound ideas of
phenomena which are daily occurring around them, but of
which the large mass of us are apt to be ignorant., unless re-
minded by 'some such lecture as this.
SUICIDE AT BLACKYRIARS-BRIDGE.---Abollt half-
past two o'clock this morning a respectably-dressed woman,
about 25 years of age, was observed by the policemen on duty
to be lingering about the bridge as if waiting for some one.
She was seen at the above time by City police-constable 329,
who having passed her about 20 yards, saw her deliberately
mount the parapet of the bridge near the centre, on the east
aide, and plume into the river. lie gave an alarm, but in
consequence of the boats being secured, considerable delay
took place, and before he could reach her she had sunk and
was carried away by the stream.
DUBLIN, Fin. 22.—About seven o'clock on Sunday
evening, an incendiary fire was committed at Tynte-park, near
Duulavin, the residence of Tynte Pratt, Esq. The haggard of that
gentleman was set on fire, and 160 barrels of oats, and a mare and
foal were destroyed. The premises and a quantity of hay were
saved only by the exertions of the country people, who flocked in
from all quarters, and remained up all night in preventing the ex-
tension of the fire. Cris **posed that the Outrage was the result
of istivete

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
UNION HALL.-(THIS DAY.)
Inspector Evans, of the L division, gave information of the
sud•ten death of a gentleman in a public-house, on the pre-
ceding afternoon, under very awful circumstances.
The Inspector stated that a gentleman, named Burrows,
residing at South Lambeth, met a female in the Borough,
between three and four o'clock on the preceding afternoon,
and they walked together until they arrived at the Crown
public-house in Westminster-road, which house they entered
together. They walked up stairs into a room on the first
floor, and called for a glass of gin and water, and Mr.
Burrows had just tasted the liquor, when his companion ob-
served that he changed colour, and immediately fell off the
chair on the. floor. She immediately rang the bell, and the
landlord coining up, and seeing the condition of the gentle-
man, immediately called in medical aid, but he expired al-
most instantaneously. A policeman having been apprised
of the circumstance, took possession; of the deceased's pro-
perty—consisting of a gold watch and chain, a purse contain-
ing a considerable sum of money, and-Some small silver arti-
cles. The landlord and the•female who was in the company
of the deceased at the time ho expired, accompanied the
policeman to the station-house, and the woman who, it ap-
pears, is a widow, and lives in Snow's-fields, had been for
some time acquainted with the deceased, who had been
formerly in the army, and was described to be about 60 years
of age.

CLERKENWELL-(THIS DAY.)
REPORTING AT POLICE COURTS.—When the morning
charges were disposed of, Mr. GREENwoon said his attention
had been accidentally directed to a report of an occurrence
at this Court in the Illustrated London News. He wished to
know in the first instance whether atiything occurred before
Mr. Combe regarding the case.
Mr. Mallet (the chief clerk) said nothing whatever had
occurred on the subject since the day on which the affair took
place.
Mr. GREENWOOD—Then the report in this newspaper is
grossly incorrect. (The Magistrate handed the newspaper
to the chief clerkrwho having perused the report, said it was
full of misrepresentations from beginning to end.
The reporter of The Sun begged to say that he had not
furnished a report of the occurrence to any .newspaper. As
the postman's conduct was about to be made the subject of
investigation before the Postmaster-General, he thought any
newspaper statement previously to that investigation might
create an unfavourable and unfair prejudice against him.
Mr. Gitintiswoop—You were the only gentleman from
the press who was in Court at the time, and I am sure you
will agree with me in saying that no part of the occurrence
took place outside the Court. • You confirmed the statement
made by the gaoler regarding the conduct of the postman.
The Reporter said the whole affair took place within the
Court.
Mr. GREENWOOD, after some further observations on the
incorrectness of the report, let the matter drop.

- SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.
(RECEIVED THIS DAY.)
BETTING AT MANCHESTER—FRIDAY.
CHESTER CUP.
12 to 1 agst Worthington's lot 20 to 1 agst Pagan
15 to I agst Sir Robert (t) 20 to 1 agst Tacita (t)
15 to 1 agst The Prior (t) 35 to 1 agst Merry Andrew
17 to 1 agst Cattonite (t) 30 to 1 agst What
17 to 1 agst Pharaoh 30 to 1 agst Nutwith
20 to 1 agst Freedom (t) 30 to 1 agst Alice Hawthorn
DERRY.
6to 1 agst Ugly Buck (t) 27 to 1 agst Loadstone
7 to I agst Rattan (t) 33 to 1 agst Voltri (t)
18 to 1 agst Cockamaroo (t) Rest as before.
LIVERPOOL STEEPLE CHASE.
6to 1 agst Discount (t) Iloto 1 agst Robinson
9 to 1 agst Robin Adair I 15 to 1 agst Marengo

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