The Sun.
London, England, 1850-05-28 00:00:00

28, 1850.

their Lordships for their p-rusal, he must expect to have
them thus incidentally discussed. The information
contained in the papers recently delivered eaS at Once
most important and most alarming. The return
of air the in-door and out-door paupers for each year,
from the year 1848 to the year 1850, was most
apalling. It proved the entire fellacy of the dictum of
the Noble Pre 2-flier in that House, that pauperism had
decreased in the last five years. On the contrary; its
increase in England and Wales within that period had
reached to the vast amount of 125.000 persons. The last
year of protection was the year 1846, the last of free trade
was this year 1850. In 1846 the price of wheat was 545;
in 1850 it was 38s. a quarter; and yet, when the price
of wheat was one-third less than it was formerly,
the number of—paupers was 125000 more. The free-
trade Government had made two promises to the people,
when they deluded them into the repeal of the corn-laws.
They had given them a promise of reciprocity and they
had given them a promise of the prosperity of the lower
classes. ciprocity they had not got; the prosperity of
the lower cla.s.q!s had not happened. Ile had expected
at Any rate, after all the promises they bad received, to
tied something like prosperity in the aericultural
tricts; but in going through this list [holding out a
paper in his hard] he found no signs of prosperity either
in the sgricultursl or manufacturing districts. In Chel-
tenham, which w isnot exclusively either an agricultural
or a manufacturing place, there we re in 1846. the last
year of protection, 990 paupers; in 1850, tire last year
of free trade, 1,819. Again, in Liverpool, in 1846,
there were 12,200 paupers; in 1850 there were
17,800 In Manchester, in 1846, there were 13,900;
1850, 13;926. In Preston, in 1846, there were 3,021
paupers, and in 1850, 5,187. He would not enter
into other details on this subject, for it was the
same everywhere; but he would give their Lordships
just one specimen from a district purely agricultural.
In the Isle of Portsea in 1846 there wore 3,200 paupers;
in 1850 there were 6,200, or nearly double.—[A Noble
Lord said "Look to Newcastle."] He had been referred
to Newcastle. Well, he would read the entry under the
town of Newcastle. In 1846 the number of paupers was
49,000. [We suspect that the Noble Lord, in his haste,
quoted the figures incorrectly, for, according to the last
census, the whole population of Newcastle was not more
than 69,430.] In 1850 there were 7,966.—(Cries of
" Hear, hear," on the Ministerial benches.) With these
facts before them, it was impossible for Noble Lords
opposite to argue that their policy had turned out bene-
ficially. He then read to their Lordships various re-
turns recently laid on their table, all of which, he in-
sisted, conspired to establish the same point. For in-
stance, in 1845, when the old corn-laws were in force,
the returns of corn sold in England and Wales were
5,700,000 odd quarters of wheat; in 1849, the last year
for which the same returns had been received,
they were only 4,500,000, so that the decrease of
the corn sold in England and Wales between the years
1845 and 1849 was just 1,200,000 quarters. With these
papers, showing that all their promises had failed, that
they had not gained the advantages of reciprocity by their
generous system towards the foreigner, that they had
not diminished the amount of pauperism, and that their
low prices had not checked the importation of foreign
corn, he did not think that he was wasting the time of
the House in calling its attention to the facts, or in de-
claring that the old corn-laws must be restored, if their
Lordships had any hope of seeing the country restored
to its former prosperity.
Earl GREY replied, that the Noble Lords opposite
must not be surprised if the Government refused to enter
into these incidental debates on the corn-laws until it
was acquainted with the real object sought to be
achieved by them. It had been stated on a former oc-
casion, that when the corn-laws were on the point of
being repealed, the advocates for their repeal had per.
petually discussed the policy of them with a view of in-
fluencing public opinion, and without submitting any
regular motion to the House. But, at that time,
there was no doubt as to the object of such discussions—
it was either the qualified or the total repeal of the
corn-laws. At present, however, they stood in a differ-
ent situation. He was ready, whenever the Noble Lord
opposite (Lord Stanley) pleased, to debate the question
whether the measure of 1846 ought to be changed or
not; but when he entered upon such a debate he wished
to know distinctly what were the views of Noble Lords
on the other side; for their Lordships were at present
in a singular state of ignorance on the subject. Not one
of the Noble Lords opposite had yet stated distinctly
whether they wished to go back to the old sliding scale
of 1828 or not. Did the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley)
wish simply to repeal the Act of 1846, and return to the
law under which they had the agricultural distress of
1833, 1835, and 1836, or did be want something else?
In another place it bad been declared, upon very high
authority, that what was desired was a fixed duty of Be.
upon wheat—the measure so scornfully rejected in 1841.
Another gentleman in that place had said that what
he wanted was an alteration of the various burdens
upon laud; but, on the other hand, that notion of
relief, by altering taxation, had been denounced
as altogether nugatory and delusive by the Noble Lord
opposite (Lord Stanley), in a very eloquent and remark-
able speech which he made in reply to certain memorials
that had been presented to him. What, then, did Noble
Lords opposite want? A fixed duty, a sliding scale, or a
change of taxation? What alteration in the existing
policy of the country did they mean to propose? He
(Earl Grey) could only say that when the Government
knew the specific measures which were to be proposed,
he had no doubt they would be able to show good rea-
sons against their adoption.—(Laughter from the Oppo-
sition.) His own opinion remained unshaken. He firmly
believed that teethe alteration of their commercial policy in
1846 they were, under Providence, indebted for the sefety
in which this country had passed through a period of un-
exampled difficulty. The Noble Earl (Malmesbury) had
quoted returns with respect to the number of paupers
relieved in England and Wales during the last five
years; and he had endeavoured to show that the number
of paupers now receiving relief was considerably greater
than the number relieved in 1846, the last year of protec-
tion. But if the Noble Earl looked at the return he
would find that, though there was now an increase in the
number of paupers, as compared with 1846, yet that
the year 1850 showed a reduction in the number as com-
pared with 1847, 1848, and 1849. The Noble Earl was
however, well aware that there were circumstances in
the condition of the country, independently of the price
of corn, which might account for the difference between
the number of paupers relieved this year and in 1846.
The year 1846 was the very height of the railway mania,
and he believed that at that time the companies ex-
pended several millions of money mainly in labour.
Now, however, there were not as many hundred thou-
sands of pounds expended in such labour as there were
then millions. Since 1846, also, they had had to en-
counter all the consequences of the famine in Ireland;
and it was notorious that that famine had bsen the
means of bringing into all our great manufacturing towns
very large numbers of Irish paupers, for whose relief it
was necessary to provide. He thought these circum-
stances would fully acount for the increase of paupers
this year as compared with 1846. When he found the
revenue prospering to an unexampled extent, when he
saw trade sound and active, notwithstanding all the diffi-
culties arising from a short crop of cotton, and when be
looked at the general state of the country, he did not think
the returns to which the Noble Lord had alluded gave
the slightest reason to doubt the success of the policy of
1846.—(Hear, har.) The Noble Earl had referred to a
return of the quantities of wheat that had been sold in
different years, and had stated that the sales of 1849
showed a falling off as compared with 1845 of some
1,200,000 quarters. He should have thought- that his
Noble Friend must have seen how fallacious that com-
parison was; for the return for 1849 showed mainly the
sales of the crop of 1848. and it was notorious that that
crop in the south of England was one of the most defec-
tive that had been known. The crop of 1849 would not,
of course, appear in the return until the latter part of the
year; and he believed that the agricultural distress now
so much and, he admitted, so justly complained of, had
much more to do with the consequences of the very bad
crop of 1846 than with the change in the law. If the
Noble Earl compared the quantity of corn sold in the
last six months with the quantity sold in the correspond-
ing six months of the year before perfect free trade was
established, he would find that since the harvest of 1849
came into operation there had been a very
large increase is the amount of corn sold
as compared with the latter period.—(Hear.) He
would only edd, that he considered this a question far
too important to be argued upon the imperfect data ( f
the occurrences of a few months. tie believed that those
who would dispassionately and carefully examine into the
practical effects of protection, as it had been tried under
various modifications during a period of 30 years, and
would look to the melancholy consequences which had
resulted from raising expectations on the part of the
farmers which were constantly disappointed, would admit
that—judging even at this early period of their expe-
rience of the new policy—it was impossible to say that
the interests of agriculture had been disadvantageously
affected. He believed there never was a time when
greater exertions were made to improve the system ef
cultivation and to diminish the cost of obtaining agricul-
tural produce, and he was satisfied that those efforts
would meet the success they deserved.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY said the Noble Earl (Earl Grey)
seemed perfectly convinced of the merits of the system he
bad adopted; he saw nothing in the state of the country
to cause the slightest apprehension or alarm; and he
thought all interests were at this moment prospering in
the highest degree.—(lronical cries of " Hear," from the
Protectionists.) He (Lord Stanley) was not surprised
to hear the Noble Earl say that if he and his Noble
Friends on that side would only tell the Noble Earl
what measures they intended to propose, he (Earl Grey)
was satisfied—without knowing what the nature of such
measures' might be—that he could show very good
reasons against their adoption,—(Laughter.) The
Noble Earl opposite had said that previously to the abo-
lition of the corn-laws many incidental discussions had
taken place with the object of preparing the public mind
for an alteration of the then existing state of things.
Now, although he (Lord Stanley) agreed with the
Noble Earl that this question was not to be decided
upon the imperfect information they now possessed, and
still less by desultory discussions like the present—and
he wished to remind the Noble Earl that he and hiti

Noble Friends did not on these occasiotiscall-ui;on
their Lordships to come to any decision on the subject
—yet he woul.l tell the Noble Earl that his intention
and that of Li: friends was t y these discussions
to impress upon the public mind, week by week, and
day by day, if need be—(Cheers from the Opposition
benches)—the practical operation and working of the
system which had been introduced by the revision of the
import duties upon agricultural produce. Ho would not
answer the Noble Earl's queston as to what form or
amount of duty they might think it right to propose,
He (Lord Stanley) would say, however, that he was sa-
tisfied a change was coming over the public mind,—
(Cheers from the Opposition benches.) He did not ex-
pect that change to come over the mind of the Noble
Earl—(A laugh)—but the public, who watched the pro_
Kress of events, and that portion of the public especially
of events, werey
who were suffering under that progress
beginning to open tam eyes to the real effocts of the