The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-15 00:00:00

THE TEN HOURS' BILL.

---- ---
Lord STANLEY presented a petition from Rochdale,
in Lancashire, with respect to the Ten Hours' Bill, which
had been passed by the Legislature to restrain the labour
of children and women in factories. The petitioners
prayed that their Lordships would vote for a Bill intro-
duced into the other House of Parliament, with the view
of giving effect to the intentions Of the Legislature in
passing the Bill, which were likely to be frustrated in
ccnsequenco of a recent decisionof the Court of Ex-
chequer upon a technical point. He wi.s not one of
those who originally pressed forward the Bill, but find-
ing that it had worked well both for the manufacturers
and the workmen, he thought it would be moot !amen-
table if the benevolent intentions of the L:gislature
should be frustrated upon a mere technical construction
of the Act. The petitioners prayed that their Lordships
would support a Bill for giving nem the benefit iuteneed
by the Act.
LAWS RELATING TO BURIAL CLUBS.

Lord MONTEAGLE said he wished to draw the at
tention of their Lordships to the laws relating to burial
societies, and to ask a question of the Noble Marquis
(Lansdowne) although he had given no notice
on the subject. It had been proved of 'we that a
crime of the most horrible atrocity had been making its
way in those districts of the country in which burial
clubs were established. Poison had been administered
to parties by those standing in domestic relations to-
wards them, and they had been cut off by those
bound to them by the dearest ties of nature.
This horrible crime had spread, in consequence of the
establishment of these clubs, who mai° pecuniary pay-
ments, by which even the death of a child was made

prctitable to its parents, ,ho had been induced f Ibis
reason, in some instances, to sacrificetheir own etnprill
f'
He hoped that the Government would deal with this
tr.estion without delay, and that it would nut be r.:
iarded by bring mixed up with the larger and more ill
acult question of interment. Government might dtsi
with the subject by a single enactment, forbidding. the
payment of money by these clubs to surviving relatives'',
and rt ndering it compulsory on the societies then:l9oo
to bury the deceased. his question was whether Bq
measure was contemplated by ae Government on tl3
subject? If not, he would feel it his duty to introduCe 5
Bill himself without delay.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that the Ties'
tion as of a difficult nature. It was, doubtless, tEue'
that frauds of the most iniquitous colour bad been Peel;
petrated, in connexion wit-i these clubs, to a degr
which must he surprising to th • I d -hips• Dl-
etc. t. • i3O
could be no doubt but that the subject ought to ITO
the attention of Parliament, but as it required great etT;
i
sideration, he ft arsd that be could not undertake, 0•
P
art t f Government, to introduce a measure this sesslPird
Any Bill, however, introduced by the Noble Lord, OA%
receive most serious consideration, and, prubsblft
Government would support ur introduce some short tz"
sure on the subject.
Lord NI OUNTCASHELL said he would postr t
ne the
o•
two motions of which he had given notice. until .

morrow.
Their LcuLhips then acj urned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 14.
FACTORY ACTS.
(Continued from our Third Edition of last night.) a
Mr. EDWARDS s, cended the motion, and elaltret
the indulgeLce of the Bowe for a short time. In
question mightily affected the neighbourhood in
he resided; and to shoN the interest felt in the giblieret
he callei on the House to witness the men in the
—(Laughter.) He maintained the working eh'ss'-one
his district were against the relay system; it 'vas
to
which would Lever answer, and be never subreitte 0
by the people of England. Besides. be contended 4110
impracticable, for unless they employed new insPelor
he could not see how persons working 15 hours
beat
could be discovered to have worked more than 10 g°
consecutively. The speed e,f the machinery had beeebe,
much increased, that eery little difference txiste„cif 14
tween the present system and the former syster°,"h" 're
hours labour. The men of Lancashire and Yer's"trias
wanted the Act of 1847 to be carried cut in its to
spirit and integrity, and it was their di tero3los"-thel
urge the Government to do so—a task, he believed,' .0
would accomplish, seeing that they had been 30 Yeile
straggling obtain the boon already granted theitide
had always been a Protectionist; but since free is
came into operation he had not opposed it; and tulsng
could say. that in Bradford thousands of the wo
classes who two years ago were starving in the °trep
the
were now fully employed.—(Hear, hear.) It vf. till
same in his own neighbourhood, but it was Dru',.,‘",:iga
Lancashire, and he had been informed that the 1—,,1t•
markets were absolutely glutted with English 03$11"noes
tures. He believed the matter should be settled at "be
and fur ever, and the working classes would tire,fitiset
satisfied. He would implore of those in that Pacidos,
whose families, like his own, had arisen from the it
try of the working classes, to show their cratliu: the
that occasion, by supporting the Bill brought le
Noble Lord the Member fur Bath.

The motion having been put from the Chair,iettert,blo4i,i:
had
GEORGE GREY said thit although certiinli 0
indulged in the hope that t fter the repested cad
protracted discussions which had taken place ee t •
Or
question of the reduction of the hours of labour bad
twin classes employed in manufactures, although:heed- et
hoped that after those repeated discussions,' they would
Id
length arrived at a satisfactory result, and that it "-tubs
therefore be unnecessary to revive what could neiot
bcarried on without the clashing of interests in they' el
ranches of national industry, between whom i eet•
so much importance that harmony should otist,o4,
andwithstanding all this, the present state of circutn,t.g'" els
of the law, were such that he thought his l'es°lt'
Friend was jueailied in coming to this Howe snu - es
ing a legislative remedy for what he believed Woo
existing evils. He (Sir George Grey) should 00
nothing of the nature of that remedy - indetrs'
Noble Lord himself said nothing et it, for' be 1114"-ettild
firmed the House what the purport of the 1311! l'el- for
be, than the particular details of it; but spesitin% go
himself, and looking back to the part he (Sir Getires
Grey) bad taken in supporting the existing restrica.°o
on the hours of labour of those emelt:le-tea
factories, he believed an amendment was expedient, lea
should as soon as possible be proposed and adoPtede' vi
den
osttwahtnbikel
olteh,cahoe:enntsei%huufaaborjtirremehenneteo.er_wte
occasions,
,hdt: those reasonable
ssteeonn,
er
lat
ne
dand o
t) Tito:,
jeg tey e,er
el,
Though that
ph trabot
eptaho
eas
partl hist ea ed6iel ;do
tbhee
tandeooputsiiosutenotf,abneyor 0
id
say the afterwith
awmouenlddninoetthatyto, of
thelaw
which
ell;butt's
the spirit of the Act of 1847, or against the ohJee",,-efeli
of protecting women and children for which it vFS- teen'
proposed.—(Hear, hear.) It may be desirable, in; -deg
sidering the question, to recur Lriefly to the ex
state of the law, without golf g back to tb• Act eft: 0
the 3d and 4th of William 4, which enacted th() a,,
young person should work at night, or, in ether *cite
from half-past eight in thu evening to half-pal ding
inf the morning, leaving fifteen hours, and Will or
onales from its o elation. The secont. gee'
Lion limited the hours of labour to tteel—meel•
olttt,h;fit'itarweafa,lletaoveinmgpabn,yhour and a half for each eat
provided the won king youngtimedid
five in the morning to half. past eight in the even";;..
and then came the 7 and 8 of Victoria, p.siied ill h"„eei
by which woman were classed with young persons, e"ot
n ut
exceedpersona
twelve b a -,,, i ,
subject to the same restrictions. By the 30th wed "lee
sections of the Act, the hours e f labour for children ~,j,
tween the ages of eight and thirteen, were regelet-ele
and they were worked by what was termed " t e sr ;ec•
e.f relays," as aunerised by that Act. The 260 -oe.
ton limited the time of night, as he bad alresciLst
served, from halr-past five in the morning to haeetatt
eight in the eveniee, provide d they did not exeeee'dee
hours at continuous labour. No doubt the conliejeiest
decisions given with regard to the constructien(L le'
clause had led to a greet deal of confusion. opinion
specter of factories entetteincd the same ee
regarding it as his Noble Friend the Member for 'Tao,
andb he was bound to say that successive Governerne; fur
is Right Honourable Friend opposite, the Igeo,"`,oeire
Ripon, and himself; and the law adviserst of the u— be
agreed in that opinion. But his Noble Friend renettied
laware that the opinions of secretaries of stiite ••••
that opinions which were binding could only °a 0
legal advisers of the Crown were of no autheriticr,
Glared by competent courts of justice, by thuds
traces, aed ultimately by one of their supreme eei;,, the
judicature. After the construction put upon it :"' s;
judges of the Court of Exche uer- a construetiee.fo
proved of by the Lord Chief Barqun—and of which, Ora
reading it est ntively, he (Sir G. Grey) bad not "steed -
to say— it did, in his opinion, render that clause, 01.
of being a benefit, as it was intended, a positiie iv) tee
The fact was, that section fixed the same hoar for
rtur
commencement of their work of all parties in the inter
ries, bnt under the woi king e f th
of
e sstem, and them- iehS
vais of rest allowed, the period terminating it "eeeed
vary, provided the whole time employed did not d :;-
ten hours. That construction was open to great neetit to
rious objections, not only to the operative
the employers of labour ; and it was, tee relore,de,siiiter
that the law should be made clear and distinct son liat or
peachable, to prevent the inconvenience which nint'deere
cessarily follow to both parties, ii they did nnt ale en'
strictly to the law as now laid down by indisputn,bi bout
thority. The objects of the limitation of hours el 704
were two ; first, a physical object ; for one of thertel bi
grounds laid down during the discussion of the ,;0, es
classes ;800
his Noble Friend and others war, that such 3 sr.:wall,'
applied to young persons and females was PhY""eerd
ebort Ti,
injurious ; that it deteriorated their health,
their lives, and altogether destroyed hodliferey)
gour.—(Hear, ;hear.) But he (Sir George '-eito
dofiffreerleadyswiitrhshbiisftNs o.balse Fureieeensdseirnilysaying that the 1,1 i," ow
attainment of that object. Relays
case where a young person was employed, nolnkneif eat
continuous labour with the same set, as it W-9 tire...--inbill
or, in other words, the set was engaged to v/94..' toe.
all connected with it did not do so at the stone eteelts
iwneaorenssisntaeinstgo%to
01
Some were therefore set to work at six d'work
others at eight, and so on; but those who weal tee wept
at six leaving off two hours earlier than those veufleeer,
to work at eight. The " shift" system was, hnoyed
different, for the same persons may be el moo
throughout the whole range of fifteen hours, an d go
come et half -past five o'clock in the morning and tiro
away at half-past eight in the evening. TbeYlll,eld hod
not work more than ten hours, and his Noble Felenbe ft'
overlooked the fact that the physical objects nolldid not
tamed under either system. On that account heh phi-
object to the sy stem of " shifts" or " relays onett. the
sical part of the question; but whets he eein to
criest fussed,h c s ofta t however,
wHoeefvaerrt, b het ebaairta. 'w')ll,
moral objection it was quite a different thinv—sk .on-
GreY) of
in speaking
lo_
bteheodli
betwe ea the different classes in the factories,, rot'
and that whatever might be the intentions rot'
liament towards women and young children, n° 000
existed that legal restriction was never intended on
II
of_
labour. Many of his Noble Friend's oheeeevettileorge
plied to the adult system, and although
isloliNsteob(sSleigirhF;loefn°drg,
Grey) did not say his Noble Friend had n° eau % were
so, yet it was hardly lair to say that restrictiotLeieet
t i.. 0 ct
ot dn
necessary, when it was the clear intention of Partlind it
in passing the Act to impose none whateeer•ela arid
was avowedly its intention to promote the fowl t sbef
moral good of women and young persons, that
od
should get proper religious and moral inatructtonhoto
should enjoy proper recreation, and that w01:104 be
be enabled to attend to their domestic affairst,tetion
was bound to state—and he did so with great sattbsitiPt the
—that the results in that view bad been ell, two!'
most sanguine advocates of the principle could iteeter.
(Cheers) From t'le reports he received from 01 bond
of religion, and indeed fry all quartere, he evite ;list
to say that young poisons and women bad sn°,."eo3 the
they duly appreciated the benefit; they derived 101
,3,d,
Ten Hours' 13i11.—(Cheers.) Schools had been, ono,
instruction given on religious subjects, industvni.ertbe
suits—such as needle-ww k—tauglit, so necessarye:soo,
domestic comfort and convenience of the poorer that all
and every anticipation realised to such a degree,
ntref.
who supported the Bill had groat reason to betnut'rered
He remembered a prediction which Was would
during the discussiore that the employers oflabolir
_ssed
not give the Bill their heat ty concurrence after It
uPeeree.
into a law. Now, he must say, in justice to 01' '''t
a ete
owners, that the results he had described were In
themve
measure owing to the cordial concurrence they h to
in carrying it into effect. It was competent fore_orlie
keep those in their mills from half-past five in th..tciing
ing until half-past eight, without, of course, suntee, it
then to more than ten contieuous hours' labot%. red it
was because they allowed time for instruction, th ~.18"sei.
great benefits bad been derived to the workng c.

It ass ullr to them to state that circumstance. Without
g" ice the length of his Noble Friend, there was now pro.
t")e8l'Il to remedy the inconvenience which existed. The
hitght Hon. Barone t then referred to the reprt made t.-)
• by inspectors t f feet ales in Menehester and el-, -
ev showing the greet inconvenience produced by the
Present Bill, particularly that portion of it which re -
quired the atiendaie e E f all the labouring classes at the
midis at half-pest feet o'clock in the morning. In most
easees a great number were employed but for a few mi-
ttir'2s. for the purpose of complying with the Act, and were
e'n compelled to go to their homes fir some bouts, beer e
r sureei4 m
work again, which was a great inc venience
te
many,and pressed heavily on al', by needlessly
Right
them of two or three hours' reit. The
le'ht Honourable Baronet then proceeded to observe,
at he did not think that the intention of the Legisle-
tiiT was so clear and indisputable as the Noble Lord
bad assumed it to be. His Noble Friend laid it down us
an ind.
isputable fact, that it was distinctly intended that
all persons. belonging to the classes affected by the law
Were to work ten hours only continuously, and he had
2141,?tel from Mr. Horner in support of that assumption,
it to show e e the in 1844 it was directly intended to
Prohibit-
the emit system. He (Sir G. Grey) w Is, how-
te"rs of opinion that tee ststement of Mr. Horner furred to the Bill, and not ts the Act uf 1841, a dE the
ilteritien of the Legislature was not t be sought, in
but
as at first introduced, or in the (let:wet upon teese,
uutlt in the clauses of the Acts which embodied that in-
ifErni°ll. Baron Parke, in his judetment, had seed that
intention of the Legislature bad been to enact that
the hours of labour should be continuoue, and to stop-
Paget_ of the children and young persons simultatEelus,
et intention should hive been clearl e and definitely
ja.ted. Well, that was precisely the intention of the
h ae introduced in 1814 by his Noble Friend, and
ese
I/ el 4 no doubt but that it was to that Bill Mr.
orn
er referred. In the eighth clause of that Bill
was expressly enacted that all children and young
females should commence work and leave off work
."
the
, same hours. That clause was clear and unam-
biguous,and, if adopt sd by the Legislature, would
have left no doubt whatever of the intention of the La-
tslature to put and end to shifts and relays. But what
Noble
the result of that Bill? It was withdrawn by his
Friend, and a new Bill, in which the eighth
clause was wanting, it was not propose again.
• ne Bill in that respect was altogether different, and
s that Bill which passed into a law. He, there-
ret thought his Noble Friend was not fully justified in
assuming that the intention of Parliament was as he had
stated it, That intention must be taken as it was found
In
the statute-book. The withdrawal of the Bill in its
Proposing
form by his Noble Friend, and his not again
ri'vroposing the unambiguous clause he had referred to,
tee auffleient to cause doubts upon the subject. He did
As however, mean to say that the intention of Parlia-
tent had not been truly stated by his Noble Friend; he
~early
contended that that intention had not been so
~verly and unequivocally expressed as to justify the
decided, statement made by his Noble Friend.—
Is tears hear.) Witn respect to the course proposed by
13 Noble Friend, he was gratified to find that he did
net intend, as he understood him, to call upon the
i 'use to pass a declaratory Bill as to what was the
2tention of the Legislature, because he thought it
Was not well for one Parliament to declare the inten-
tb4 of another. It would not be necessary for him on
tee
present occasion to uffer any observations upon
e course proposed to be taken by his Noble Friend, or
st,s'
anticipate the discussion on the provisions of the Bill.
would enter upon that discussion with an anxious
eesire to secure to children and young persons all the
41rantages which it was clear the measure was calcu-
-Iraod to make upon them, while at the same time he
uld desire to lay as little restriction upon adult labour
as Possible.—(Hear, hear.) Whether that was possible
'orteuld be matter for future consideration. He should not
ect to the introduction of the Bill—(Hear, hear)—
• "hide at the same time he did not bind himself to any
Portion of it. He was not ashamed to confess that on
ir important subject his mind was not finally made up,
fevanse he saw that there were vast and great interests
I'eolved in it, and he was most sincerely desirous that
4
nutter should be settled in a way that would give
satisfaction and the greatest amount of benefit to all the
taroes interested in it. He would suggest to his Noble
liend the propriety of introducing a strict difinition of the
term" Noble
night." As to one point he must remark that his
to Friend appeared to be in error when he stated that
" certain districts it wae"almost impossible to get magis-
:Pea to levy the fines for the infraction of the provisions
the Act. He had before him a report of the inspector
rth respect to a case at Blackburn (as we understood),
which the magistrate, though by no means a friend of
tee Ten Hours' Act, inflicted upon the Messrs. Hop-
tli,°°4 penalties to the amount of 701. for fifty cases of
sot
Infraction of the Act. He repeated that he would
oppose the introduction of the measure, but in dis-
cussing
the question his great desire would be, as far as
feasible, to reconcile the master and the operative, whose
'lltereets were identical. lie believed the manufacturers
Were animated by a fair and generous principle in their
d
44iing3 with those in their employment. He saw his
h en. Friend opposite (Mr. Bankes) shako his head, and
„e, Was sorry to see that he did not concur in that
extreme
But ho thought that, without favouring an
view on either side, it was possible, by a fur
conciliatory adjustment of the claims of each, topro-
duce that amity betweea manufacturers and operatives
,
uich was essential to the prosperity and welfare of
all---(Elear, hear.)
Mr. BANKES said, the Right Hon. Baronet had ex-
. lleined with his usual ability the state of his mind at
'twat moment with reference to this question. It was a
~„leatter-Nbiete must be very soon deciled, because the
Present uncertainty and division among those interested
Wits not creditable either to the Government or the Le-
Lialature.—(llear, hear.) He thought the House would
t`isreei with him that they were very much indebted to
Noble Friend for taking the mutter up, after the Gie-
,,errement had declined to do so. He must dissent from
'"e statement implied in the Right Hon. Baronet's re-
• marks as to the course proposed by his Noble Friend.
ills Noble Friend had most distinctly stated that it was
ta intention to call upon the House to declare that
the Act was a Ten Hours' Act of continuous labour, to
ue reckoned from the hour the first young person com-
menced, work. Whether that ought ts be done by a de-
claratory or an enacting Bill, was comparatively of little
lbasequence, though, under all the circumstances, per-
,.46 an enacting Act would be the most proper. With
respect to the intentions of the Legislature in 1844, be
41 not profess to he able to give a very decided
0
Pinion, though his impression was the reverse
•:4 that of the Right Honourable Baronet at
ii)it time ; having been very gradually induced to
eeol3lo a supporter of measures inteuded to lessen
tee
labour of the factory operatives, he contented him•
%elf with taking a very humble part. The statements
Nr his Noble Friend, and the high authority which be.
eted to the late Mr. Fielden as a large manufacturer,
combined with the advantages which all experience had
shown to result from every approach in that direction,
cad, however, fully confirmed him in the soundness and
Justness of the policy he had advocated. Whatever
might be the case with respect to the Bill of 1844,
Lucre certainly was no doubt about that of 1847. But it
:as somewhat strange that there should have been such
too
between the Bill of his Noble Friend, and
141 Act which was passed in 1844. His Noble Friend,
after obtaining the sanction of Parliament to that Bill,
Ras induced, by the belief that the Government of that
c were cordially with him, to leave to them the carte -
tO6 of
of the measure. and withdrew his own upon that
;Ilderseending. Perhaps the Right lion. Baronet (Sir
"t; Graham), who was then Secret try of ;State for the
Department, would inform the House how it
:al the Bth clause was omitted.—(Elear, hear.) But
Te he bad said, whatever doubt there was as to the
illtt'otion of Parliament in 1844. there was none as
° the intention in 1847, the Bill was distinctly
argued as a Ten Hours' Bill. It was argued
4 both by its supporters and its opponents. Not one
the Hon. Gentlemen opposite had any idea of the
shift system, by which the law had been subsequently
revaded. Indeed they taunted the opponents wish the
et , that practically the Bill would restrict even adult
• our to ten hours, because though it only referred to
Children and young women under eighteen years of age,
!ek it was impossible to work the mills without their
-aaistiince.—(Hear, hear.) That. was a view of the
',batter which the supporters of the measure did not con-
-4,,te• It was, in fact, their opinion that for the benefit
Z' all parties it was better that it abould ba so—(}deer,
,:111)—and that opinion had been amply borne out by
fain
general results of the measure wherever it had been
ialtly tried. All the expectations of its advocates had
Zee!) fully realised, and all the predictions of its oppo-
eats had been felsified. Under these circumstances it
would have been atrauge, indeed, if Government had
°Posed that confirmation of the law which the recent de-
cision in a superior court had rendered necessary. But
e..had a great authority to adduce to show that there had
:tell in 1844 been no doubt as to the intention of the
Promoters of these Bills; that Hon. Gentleman was at that
and was now, a Member of that }louse, and a great
authority not only in that House on these matters, but
also in the country. In 1844 he said that if we extended
'°„111' markets, and thereby enhanced the value of our
productions—if we opened our ports freely to the corn,
e.,tfree, and sugar, which were then excluded by heavy
dut• ies, then ten hours labour would be as good as twelve
:ours was then, because the advantage of larger markets
e_4or our own produce and the saving from cheapened im-
Ports, would go into the pockets of the labourer. Such
Were the opinions of the Hon. Member for the West
Vding—(Hear, hear)—in 1844, then the Member for
tockport, and then, as now, an authority with the ma-
nufacturing interest. He trusted that in the course of
the-i debates on this question they would see that Hon.
7ernber in his place, and that as we had now granted
'la demands for the cheapened importation of corn, coffee,
And sugar, the Hon. Gentleman would redeem his pledge,
4M support the Ten Hours Bill.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that the Hon. Gentleman who
last addressed the House had stated that the object of
the Bill was to limit adult labour.
Mr. BANKES denied that he had said so. What he
ileid was, that such would be the eff .ct of the Bill.
M. GIBSON wonld accept the explanation of the
'"▪
On. Gentleman. In giving his support to the motion
eir the introduction of the Bill proposed to be brought
1.4 by the Noble Lord, he must not be understood to
ittPport the various provisions of th Bill shadowed forth
't•IY the Noble Lord. Ho admitted,e however, that the
ner, as it stood, required alteration. lie could not
trash that the manufacturers of England had systems-
' 'eally evaded the law. although he thought they were
tuStitied in feeling jade:slant that this House should
have interfered with factory labour in the way it had
'Pile. The Nobl© Lord had allowed his feelings to go
far in saying that to his factory Bill he attributed
re improved state of the people engaged in factories.
A° (Mr. M. Gibson) thought that much of the system-
.ll4Provement in the state of the people was to be attri-
utei to the alteration which bad taken place in the com-
mercial laws of the country. The Noble Lord referred to
:11e Bistiop of Dundee—(A laueli)—the bishop
el that locality, and had spoken of the large
"lereale in his congregation, which be attributed
•