The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-14 00:00:00

EXTENSION OF THE SUFFRAGE.

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD, previous to bringing
forward his motion for leave to introduce a Bill to ex-
tend Parliamentary suffrage, and to secure the
free representation of the people, presented
petitions from Leicester, the Tower Hamlets,
and Leeds, signed by upwards of 10,000 per-
sons, in favour of his motion. The Hon. Gentleman
then proceeded to state, that on former occasions he had
[wrought before the House propositions similar to that
which he now advanced, and had entered into different
arguments in support of his:: views which he:would not
then reiterate. He should only state his general views
on the question, and explain as shortly as he possibly
could, the principles he desired to see in operation. If
they considered the principle of all government,
they would find it to he that the great body
of the people gave up their natural rights, and
entrusted them to others to exercise them for the
benefit of all. This principle was consistent with
his proposition that every man should hare a share in
the appointment of those who were to make the laws
which he was bound to obey. He would not
maintain universal suffrage in all its details,
but the principle of the Bill he would in-
troduce to the House was, that all male adults
of twenty-one years of age should be entitled to vote for
Members of Parliament ; but that principle should be
limited by registration laws, which should confine the
exercise of it to a residence within the locality where the
election took place. He would exclude from the right of
suffrage all those who were under sentence for any
crime, or who were insane, but he would have no class
of the community subjected to limitations to which every
other class was not. He would also propose a now ar-
rangement of the electoral districts, for he could not
think it fair representation, if a district having 100
voters should have as many, representatives as a district
having 1,000 voters. His third proposition was the in-
troduction of vote by ballot. He considered it impossi-
ble to extend the suffrage with safety to the
people unless voting by ballot was also adopted ;
nor did he think that vote by ballot would be
safe unless it was accompanied by extended suffrage.
He had thus stated the three principles to which he
wished to draw the attention of the House ; first, the
extension of the franchise ; secondly, a new arrangement
of the electoral districts; and, tnirdly, the vote by ballot.
He did not wish to trespass on the time of the House by
going into the detail of the argument which bore upon
those three points ; but he would read the petition
which he had formerly'preseated to the House from the
delegates at Liverpool, and which contained a summary
of those arguments. (The Honourable Member then
read the petition, but not possibly be followed cor-
rectly in the gallery.) Perhaps Gentlemen might
admit the principles which he had alleged, and yet
differ from him as to some of the details ; and if so,
they ought not object to going into a Committee when
the details might be examined. The great body of the
people were, by the present system, excluded from the
representation, and the advocates of that exclusion should
show that it was wise, expedient, and just. He had been
challenged by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite io
say why he excluded females from universal suffrage.
But although he did not include women in this measure
he was not prepared to say that women should not in
some cases possess the suffrage. He did not think that
the working classes were represented in that
House or that their interests were sufficiently
attended to. Nor did he think that it was right to re-
fuse the franchise to a poor man, because he was poor and
unlettered. The poor man without learning was still
capable of judging of his own interest, and he was the
person who most required protection. To show that
the working classes required protection, he would only
refer to the recent divisions upon the Factories' Bill,
when the House of Commons twice decided by a ma-
jority, that women and children ought not to be required
to work in factories more that ten hours a day. Then
on a third division the same House divided that they
ought to work more than that time, and afterwards, on a
fourth division, by a large majority, that they ought to
work twelve hours. It was evident that in those divi-
sions the House had not voted as a body that represented
the working classes, whose almost unanimous opinions
had been expressed in favour of the measure; in fact, 1

the House was the representative of the Government
and not of the people.
After some further observations from the Hon Gen-
tleman, Dr. Bowring seconded the motion.
Strangers were then ordered to rsvithdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion 3l
Against it
Majority against the motion
(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.

Mr. GREENE and other Members brought up the
Factories and other Bills from the Commons. _

The Marquis-of CLANRICARDE gave notice that
on Friday he should present a petition on the subject of
the Poor-laws in Ireland, and he should take that oppor-
tunity of asking the Government what progress had been
made by the Commission appointed to investigate the
state of poor-houses in Ireland.
Several petitions were presented praying the House
to legalise Presbyterian mixed marriages in Ireland.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Edin-
burgh in favour of the North British Railway.
Earl SOMERS presented petitions from occupiers and
owners of land.in the city of Hereford and its vicinity ;
in the districts of Kingston ; town and vicinity of
Ledbury, county of Hereford ; parish of Mathan, county
of Worcester; parish of Bromsberrow, county of Glouces-
ter ; parish of Shelton, county of Hereford ; parish of
Canon Frome, ditto ; parish of Colwah, ditto ; parish
of Pulley, ditto ; parish of Little March, ditto ;
parish of Eggleton, ditto ; parish of Munsby, ditto ;
district of Packhold, ditto ; parish of Aylton, ditto ;
parish of Ashperton, ditto ; parish of Castle Frome,
ditto ; parish of Pixley, ditto ; parish of Coddington,
ditto ; parish of Bosbury, ditto ; all praying for the
same degree of agricultural protection as at present exists.
Lord COTTENHAM moved for returns of the num •
ber of persons who were confined in prison at the pre-
sent time, distinguishing the duration of their impri-
sonment, the amount of their debts, and the sums ex
fended in their support.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had not the
slightest objection to granting the returns moved fur by
his Noble and Learned Friend.

In reply to a question from Lord CAMPBELL,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that in the mea-
sure respecting imprisonment for debt now before
their Lordships the sum named in it for the support of
a class of prisoners amounted to exactly 300 shillings
a year, and not to 365, as he seemed to suppose.
Lord BROUGHAM moved for a return of the num-
ber of separations, a menses. et thoro, which had taken
place during the last ten years.
THE SPY SYSTEM IN IRELAND.

The Marquis of NORMANBY, in moving for the
production of the papers of which he had given notice,
would make a few observations on a topic which had
recently created a great sensation in Ireland. No one
could deny that that revelling and odious employment
which was commonly called the spy system, was one
which met with the reprobation of all good men in every-
country. In former periods the ramifications of that sys-
tem had spread through every quarter of the lower or-
ders of society in Ireland. Although they had not heard
of it during recent years, yet the recollection of it still
produced most disastrous effects upon the well-being of
society in many parts of Ire!and. He would not allude
to its probable re-introduction, but it was a notorious fact
that the sytem existed at present to a greater extent
in Ireland than it had recently done. Ile would not al-
lude to any particular cases which might at present be
under investigation. The Skibereen case, he believed,
was at present under inquiry. It was notorious that the
system was extending. He would allude to a pamphlet
which must be regarded as some sort of authority, as it
had been quoted by the Prime Minister in the other
House of Parliament—it was entitled "A Cryfrom Ire-
land," and there it was stated, that in the gaol
of Kilkenny, persons had been placed in the
same room with persons under criminal charges, for
the purpose of worming themselves into their
confidence, and obtaining confessions to be
given in evidence against them. The system extended
even to tampering with witnesses, and an affidavit of a
boy had been given, in which the deponent described the
process by which he had been led to recognise a party
as guilty of an offence, whom he had previously sworn
that he did not know. He took it for granted, as the
Prime Minister had quoted this pamphlet, that he
had directed inquiries to be made into these cases.
As a proof that this system was not necessary,
he would refer to the evidence taken before their
Lordship's Committee in 1841, from which it ap-
peared that such a system was necessary to se-
cure the proper administration of justice in Ireland.
That evidence showed that between 1835 and 1839 there
was a greater proportion of committals to offences, and
of convictions to committals, than at any previous
period ; and in the entire of it he defied their Lordships
to show the use of such means as were now had recourse
to in Ireland. Though this was an evil it was no reason
why individual injustice should be inflicted on any party
charged with participating in such offences. The Go-
vernment refused this gentleman any further investiga-
tion into his case, and they said that all correspondence
with him must be closed. When those documents he held
in his hand came into his possession he thought it right
to submit his case to the House. He had no acquaint-
ance with Mr. Grey. When that gentleman arrived in
London he called on him (the Marquis of Normanby), but
he did not think it right to receive any information from
him of which the Government were not in possession. Mr.
Grey was one of those persons who were removed at the
accession of the present Government. When Mr. Grey
was employed in Kilkenny, and when it was rumoured
that he was removed, he received from the magis-
trates, in all parts of the country, testimonies
of regret at the prospect of his removal.
and symensorial had been presented to the Lord-Lieute-
nant by the High Sheriff, signed by persons of all
politics, praying that he might be allowed to remain.
Mr. rey laboured under the imputation of having
been the parent and originator of this odious system
which was now acquiring new forte. Now, how did the
facts stand. Two men were arrested in Thurles in
November, for hawking a seditious pamphlet or ballad,
the name of which was called the " Tories downfall."
He (the Marquis of Normanby) never saw that ballad,
and, therefore, he was not aware whether it was objec-
tionable in execution or in its topic; nor did he know
whether it was one of those cases which were described
by the Noble and Learned Lord (Brougham) last night,
of " fond and fantastic prophecies," he was not pre-
pared to say. The ballad, however, was considered se-
ditious by Mr. Attorney-General Smith. It appeared
. then going
on that the persons having been arrested, Mr. Jennings
suggested that they should be tried at the quarter ses-
sions
Attorney-General of Thurles, on; and Mr. Gray consulted
the the subject, and he said,
" The ballad is very seditious, and it was quite right to
commit the parties for trial, the only difficulty is whether
they ought not to be tried at the assizes as we are not
quite certain that the jurors at the sessions would be
likely to do their duty." Now he (the Marquis of Nor-
manby) would not pause to comment upon the doubt
which was here thrown upon the jurors in petty sessions.
The Attorney-General having been obtained the parties
were committed for trial. Mr. Grey, not wishing to
strain the law so as to operate unnecessarily hard upon
the prisoners, again wrote to the Attorney-
General and stated that Osborn has expressed
his readiness to give information respecting
the printers of the ballads, and he wished to
know whether, underthese circumstances, the prisoner
could not be admitted as a witness against the printer
of the ballad, and the Attorney-General replied, "I
have no doubt that similar ballads may be purchased
from Moran, and therefore he can be prosecuted inde-
pendent of Osborn's evidence. I therefore see no reason
why Osborn should be discharged unless he can obtain bail.
It appeared that Inspector Falvey, a sub-constable,
went to the House of the printer with manuscripts in his
pocket, immediately after which Inspector Jenings took
them to Grey, and the printer was immediately appre-
hended. Now, Mr. Grey distinctly denied that he
gave any instruction upon this subject. The Noble
Marquis then read a statement detailing the circum-
stances attendant upon the arrest, and recommending Fal-
vey to the consideration of the Government as an active
And efficient officer ; also a report from the sub-inspector
to the Government to the same effect. This was
altogether a most extraordinary case, for con-
stable Falvey fully bore out the assertion of
Mr. Grey, with respect to not having issued
any instruction. td Falvey, yet Mr. Grey was dismissed,
while Falvey was retained in the constabulary. What
hid Falvey said when he was asked what did he imagine
would hare been his duty if no ballads had been printed.
His answer was, he supposed lie should have to get
them printed, but he had received no instructions. Now
the Government had received these reports on the 30th
of November, and if the Government had not interfered,
the sellers of the ballads would have been prosecuted.
Now, it appeared that Mr. Grey was anxious that these
parties should not remain in gaol, and he
applied to the Government to forward the pro-
secutions. He applied to have Osborne discharged
should be permitted to avail himself of Osborne's evi-
dence against the other parties. No, said Mr. Brewster,
there would be no necessity for that if proper means
were taken. Now, what were those proper means ?
Why, evidently it was meant to send a policeman in
disguise. They could hardly send him in uniform to procure
these ballads. Now, the Government knew as mnch
about this case on the 30th Nov. as they did at the
present moment. They bad received both the reports,
and had had an opportunity of comparing them. These
papers were not returned by Mr. Brewster until the 12th
Dec., when they were returned by him to Mr. Grey
This did not rest on his testimony alone. Reports were
transmitted from day to day by the Inspector-General
to the Chief Secretary, and the most important were
selected by the Chief Secretary, and brought under
the notice, of the Lord-Lieutenant. Directions were given
on those reports, which were" sent to the constabulary.
If blame rested any where, it must be with the Under-
Seoretary, for he was aware that the inspector-general
was most punctual in , sending reports to the Castle.—
(Hear, hem) The fact of the printing of the ballad
was known to the Government on the 12th of
November He did not think there could be the least
doubt of that.—(Hear, hear.) It did not rest
on the silence of the parties, for on the 12th of December
Mr. Brewster returned them :to Mr. Gray, saying that
no further directions seemed necessary in the case. What
interpretation was Mr. Grey to put on this but that the
previous directions bad been adopted. From the
time that those unfortunate men had been
in gaol, till they bad been discharged from the Go-
vernment refusing to prosecute them, which was four
months, Mr. Grey had no reason to suppose that he had
not fulfilled the instructions he had received. It was
not till the matter became notorious to the public any
steps were taken, and he thought that Mr. Grey and
the Irish people had reason to complain that the !inten-
tions of the Government were not clearly expressed
before the matter had become so public and notorious.

He apprehended that it was but just to Mr. Gray that a
full explanation of the circumstances under which his
dismissal took place should be laid before the public ;
and with this view he had brought the subject under the
notice of their Lordships.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE thought he would be enabled
to show that no blame was to be attributed to the Go-
vernment with respect to this matter. The circumstances
of this case undoubtedly had been detailed with great
accuracy by the Noble Marquis, and it was very true
that Mr. Brewster gave directions that means
should be taken to purchase copies of this
ballad from Moran, who was the printer,
according to the information which had been given by
Osborn. The Noble Marquis must remember that
when Osborn gave his information he was placed
very much in the position of a common in-
former, and, therefore, his evidence was not
entitled to much weight, and out not to be relied upon if
they could get better evidence by proper means. A man
dressed as an itinerant ballad-singer was therefore sent
to Moran's house, to purchase one of these ballads, and lest
Moran should have none printed in his possession
the man took with him a manuscript copy of the ballad
in his pocket, with directions that in such case he should
order Moran to print some more copies from that manu-
script. It was ascertained that there were no printed
copies in existence, but he produced the MS., and pro-
cured others to be printed in his presence and pur-
chased eighteen dozen of them. He said, further,
that when Moran received the MS. he asked
it had been procured from Ulver, and was answered in
the affirmative.

(LEFT SPE A KING.)

LIBEL.-PRISON DISCIPLINE.

The following is a copy of the petition presented by Mr.
Roebuck on Monday se'nnight

" TO THE HON. THE COMMONS OF THE UNITED KINGDOM
OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND IN PARLIAMENT
ASSEMBLED:

" The humble petition of Barnard Gregory, a prisoner in
her Majesty's Gaol of Newgate,
" Showeth,
" That your petitioner was,on the second day of December
last, at the Central Criminal Court, holden atthe Sessions-
house, Old Bailey, sentenced by Mr. Justice Coltman to
twelve months' imprisonment in the gaol of Newgate, for
alleged libels on the characters of the Duke of Brunswick,
and of his attorney, Mr. Henry Wellington Valiance; being
four months for that on the Duke of Brunswick, and eight
months for that on his attorney.
" That the gaol of Newgate is a prison chiefly appropriated
for the imprisonment of felons committed to be tried at the
Central Criminal Court, and, after trial, for prisoners under
sentence of death, or waiting to be removed for' transporta-
tion, or sentenced to be imprisoned in other gaols or houses
of correction.

" That upon your petitioner's commitment to the said gaol
he was placed under the rules, regulations, and discipline of
the said prison, the same as if he had been of the class of the
most atrocious criminal offenders, having assigned to him a
cell without any other furniture than that of a small table
and a scat without a back, a narrow ircu bedstead, with a
rope mat to sleep upon, and three horse-cloths for a cover-
ing, without either sheets or pillow.
"That his diet (until slightly altered by the recommenda-
tion of the surgeon of the gaol) consisted of water-gruel,
varied by a small portion of meat and boiled potatoes. That
he is deprived of the use of a knife and fork, being obliged to
feed himself, like an uncivilised man, with his fingers; de-
prived, also, of the use of pen, ink, and paper, and the
reading of newspapers, or any books except such books as
are permitted by the chaplain of the prison; and at night,
he is not allowed the use of any light, whereby your peti-
tioner has been compelled to pass his time in solitary dark-
ness 15 hours out of the 24. _ _

"That, in addition to the above privations, your petitioner
is not allowed by the rules of the said prison to have any
personal intercourse with his only daughter or any of his
family and friends, except upon the especial written order
of a magistrate or one of the sheriffs, which your petitioner
acknowledges with gratitude they have freely granted.
" That the said gaol so being a prison for criminal offenders,
he has had no alternative but either to have for his associates
persons of that class, or submit himself (as he has done) to
solitary confinement.

"That your petitioner shortly before his commitment to
prison ruptured a blood-vessel in the lungs, being the fifth
time of such an occurrence within four years, and he was
upon his said commitment, and is now, in a very infirm and
precarious st ate of health.

" That for more than the last four months your petitioner
has not left his cell, and, being deprived of his accustomed
air and exercise recommended by his medical advisers, he is
now reduced to such a state of mental and bodily debility as
to excite the apprehension of medical men that his life will
be sacrificed by a longer continuance in the said gaol.
"That, in proof of your petitioner's statement of ill health,
certificates of the precarious state of it, signed by six eminent
physicians, and three general Practitioners, have, with a me-
morial from your petitioner, been presented to Sir James
Graham, her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment, but without procuring for your petitioner any al-
teration in the restrictions complained against, or any remis-
sion of his sentence.

" Your petitioner, however, gratefully acknowledges that,
from the visiting magistrates of the said gaol, and also from
the sheriffs and the governor, chaplain and surgeon of the
prison, he has received every humane attention consistent
with the orders and regulations laid down for their govern-
ment by the said Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment, and the prison inspectors, and your petitioner is .now
permitted the use of a chair with a back to it, and also a
feather bed, but without sheets or a pillow, and is allowed
a partial alteration in the prison diet, without which his life
must ere this have been sacrificed ; and he is also permitted
to read the works of Shakspeare ; all the other restrictions,
as against convicted felons, continuing to be enforced against
your petitioner.
" Your petitioner humbly prays that your honourable
house will be pleased to take his case into your humane
consideration, and obtain for him such immediate relief as
will obviatethe fatal effects of his imprisonment, which are
anticipated by himself, his family, and his medical advisers.
" 1 our petitioner also prays (if not contrary to the rules
and orders of your Honourable House) that he may be al-
lowed by himself or counsel to appear and be heard at the
bar of your Honourable House in support of the allegations
and statements in this, his petition, and against those re
strictions being longer enforced against him.
" And your petitioner likew.ise prays that persons hereafter
convicted of libel may not (like your petitioner) suffer the
same and the like prison discipline and privations as persons
convicted of criminal offences.
" And your petitioner will ever pray, &c.,

" B. GREGORY."

DEATH OF JOHN GUTTERIDGE, ESQ. This
venerable and much-esteemed individual departed this
life on Sunday last, in the ninety-second year of his age,
at his residence, Denmark-hill, Surrey. Mr. Gut-
teridge was one of the founders of the Sunday-School
Society, and, for more than half a century, a zealous
promoter of various religious and benevolent institu-
tions ; among which may be named, the Baptist Fund,
Stepney College, the Baptist Mission, the Widows'
Fund, and the Dissenting Deputies. His active services
were succeeded by many years of severe personal suffer-
ing, borne with exemplary submission to the will of
God, and closed by an eminently peaceful death.—The
Patriot. . _ _

DOVER, MAY 13.—The Orion from London to Africa,
grounded off Cape Point, Folkestone, but was got off and
proceeded.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 13
CRIMINAL LAW.
Lord BROUGHAM (in continuation, said)—
The judges it behoved to read, to understand, and to
inwardly digest that mass, because they were out-
wardly called upon to give the results of that diges-
tion when they passed judgment. This process of
accumulation was now going on more vigorously than
ever; for every one of these common law reports which
were published half a century ago, ten were now
published, and at the present moment no less than
fifty-nine learned persons were employed in reducing
to writing the judgments which had been given,
and in adding to this enormous mass of matter.
This was a mass which it defied any property to
procure, any memo-y to retain, or any perspicuity
to understand. Was it then to be wondered at that
the most venerable of judges and ablest of men who
had written on jurisprudence, should have impressed
on the Government to reduce this mass to something
like order ; to enable those who administered the law to
do it with satisfaction to themselves and with justice to
the country. This was attempted in the Roman law
towards the end of the sixth century ; and even Julius
Caesar and Justinian, two of the greatest men that ever
lived, had made similarZattempts. He would now come
down to the history of this country. As early as the time
of Edgar an attempt was made to place the law upon a
plain footing. Lord Bacon, in later times, said that
a digest ought to be made to give law a new light, but
not a different nature. But it might be said that Lord
Bacon shone more as a philosopher than a lawyer, and
that upon the latter subject he was a visionary. But,
then, what did they say to Lord Coke : he said
that to repeal many penal statutes and make ono
plain, perspicuous law, divided into articles, so that
every subject might know the law, and how to obey it,
would be necessarily a work of singular commendation.
Sir Matthew hale, considering how great the mass of
law books had became, and they were then as the box on
their Lordships table compared with a house in the City
—but; leaving these authorities, and coming to the Legis-
lature itself, they would find in 1650 a Committee sat
with Whitelocke at its head; in 1656 another Committee
sat upon the same subject, formed by men of similar
eminence. And, in later times, in 1816, a resolution was
come to by both Houses of Parliament, that the great
work of digesting the law should be performed, and the
House of Commons passed a vote that eminent lawyers
should be employed for that purpose. Sir Robert Peel,
in 1826, introduced a measure for digesting and conso-
lidating the state of the law of property. He (Lord
Brougham) bad spoken of digesting not only the
statutary law, but the common law, and thought the
statement he had made of the diffused condition of the
statute law was sufficient to show that the common law
ought not to be excluded from the operation of his
motion. The dictum was that all men should obey this
law, yet 4 was embodied in no less than 150,000 closely
printed pages, which was elucidated by an index with
no less than 1,150 pages. He thought it was a
most painful thing to judges to have to
depend, in deciding upon • those cases, upon
their own discretion ; what he wanted was to have
some fixed rule by which judges were to decide, be-
cause he was confident that the crimes of murder, arson,
treason, and such like, were the same now as during the
days of Coke. A judge should be alone influenced by
what was the actual law as declared by the Legislature,
and not be induced to declare what law was. Let their
Lordships suppose a case wherein a judge had to
decide a question in relevance to which no statute law
had been enacted. What was his position ? Why, he
had to consult the reports of all the decisions which
bore the slightest analogy to that particular case, and
there he was left to grope in the dark through all those
cases, in order that • he might find something like
that which was under his consideration. The
consequence of all this was inextricable dis-

putes and difficulties. During fifteen years
of his life, he had had opportunities of being impressed
Keith the cogency of those arguments; and, in making
this assertion he was fully borne out by M. Dupin, the
celebrated French writer upon criminal jurisprudence.
(The Noble and Learned Lord then road a quotation
from M. Dupin's pamphlet, in which he stated that the
greatest benefit had resulted from the formation of a cri-
minal code in France.) This gentleman, it must be re-
membered was originally far from being enamoured of
codes, but was a sceptic on the subject. Experience,
however had taught him better. To show the necessity
of a criminal code, ho would inform their Lordships that
the Criminal Law Commissioners had collected no 'less
than thirteen definitions of the crime of theft. There
were 1,540 statutes in force, 658 repealed, or supposed to
be repealed. There were 142 repealed, or repealed by
implication ; 234 of what was called obsolete statutes,
and 780 expired, being 3,354 Acts of Parliament
altogether. Now, of those repealed, or supposed to be
repealed statutes, 142 were doubtful. No man could
tell whether these 142 were or were not repealed.
There was, for instance, the 3d and 4th Edward VI.,
chap. 10, which made it a very grave offence for a per-
son
to have in his possession images taken from a church,
with the merciful provision, " except Noble Lords, who
are reputed saints "—(Laughter)—so that if he (Lord
Brougham were to buy an image which came out of a
church, under this statute, „hick was not repealed, he
might be punished. Then there was an Act in ex•
istence which provided punishment for " fond and plian-
tastic attempts to stir up faction." This Act might be
brought with force against many of their Lordships.—
(Laughter.) There were Acts, 26th Henry VIII., and
sth and 6th Edward VI., by which it was made treason
to call the Sovereign an infidel, so that 140 years are,
under this Act, it would have been treason to speak the
truth, and have said of William 111., that he was a
schismatist. The Noble and Learned Lord then enume-
rated several other obselete statutes, respecting which,
much doubt existed as to whether they had been re-
pealed or not. One was to prevent corn being exported
when the price was above 6s. Bd. the quarter ; another
to prevent the importation of foreign cards for wool-
carding, and a third was for the purpose of imposing a
shilling fine on all persons neglecting to attend their parish
church on a Sunday. This statute was supposed to be
obsolete until a short time ago, when it was brought
into life in Lancashire. Three men were brought
before the magistrates fvr poaching on a Sunday; but
the case was not made out against them. Before how-
ever they were discharged, one of the justices inquired of
the prisoners if they had been to church the previous
Sunday, and finding that they had not, he sentenced
them to a fine. of eleven shillings each, and costs, and
these men suffered an imprisonment of eleven weeks in
consequence. He (Lord Brougham) in his letter to Sir
James Graham last year, mentioned this circumstance,
and a Right Hon. Friend of his, shortly after the publi-
cation of the letter, wrote to him (Lord Brougham) to
say, that the printer had made one of the greatest
blunders that printer ever made, for he had printed
" poaching," for " preaching."—(Laughter.) But. what
was Mr. Cooper's, h's (Lord Brougham's) friend's sur-
prise, when he was informed that the printer was right.
Mr. Cooper believed, when he read the letter, that the
men had been fined for preaching in some conventicle.
There was another absurdity in our statute book, and
that was the manner in which the various Acts were
described. In the 31st of George the Second, ch. 33,
the following things were all found together :
an Act for preventing trading by bankrupts ; for pre-
venting abuse as to the admeasurement of coals in the
City of London and Liberty of Westminster ; and for
preventing the stealing or destroying madder roots.
Another Act in the same reign, the 29th George 11.,
was fur regulating places of entertainment, for regu-
lating the burning of gorse, for regulating disorderly'
houses, and clerks to attorneys and solicitors.—
(Laughter.) They then came to the 22d George IL,
for preventing excavations along the shores of the River
Thames, for amending the laws regulating attorneys, for
regulating the assize of bread, for making roads in the
Counties Palatine of Lancaster and Chester, tied to prevent
the spread of infection amongst horned cattle. In the reign
of Edward VI. it was laid down by the oracles of the
law that an Act was not to be taken as dated from the
day it was passed, but as dated from the first day of the
session in which it was passed. An Act was passed by
which it was made penal to import foreign goods of a
certain description after the date of the Act. A man
imported a quantity of these goods before date of the
Act, but he was, however, prosecuted under it, and
punished, although he imported his goods in
February, and the Act was not passed until May.
The case was moved upon a writ of error,
to their Lordships' House, and the twelve Judges iu
England were consulted, and they gate it as their
opinion that the judgment of the Court in Ireland ought
to be confirmed, and it was 'confirmed accordingly.—
(Laughter.) This was a part of that which was termed
the perfection of human reason. In the 13th year of
the reign of Elizabeth, of blessed memory, an Act was
passed, declaring that any person should be liable to im-
prisonment who dared to take more than ten per cent. as
interest of money. The clause ran in these words :
" That forasmuch as all usury, being forbidden by the
laws of God, is detestable, therefore be it enacted that
all usury, that is loans of mone3r•with above ten per
cent. interest, shall be punished in manner following—
that is to say whoever receives a sum beyond that for
interest shall pay it back upon action being brought."
That law was in existence at this very hour.
The judges in all cases in which it was attempted to
carry these obsolete laws into effect were obliged to be
mere instruments ; they were obliged to help the man
who attempted to ensnare others in the meshes of the
law, to help him who in the heat of revenge had
warmed the torpid viper into life and mischief: Whether
a defendant made a foul defence, or the plaintiff brought
a foul charge, the judges were obliged to aid them. The
Bill which he asked their Lordships to read a second
time digested the criminal statute law, and unfolded the
principles upon which that digest of the criminal-law was
made. All the statutes, all the judicial decisions, all the
definitions of the test books, had been carefully weighed
and considered, and, from the light derived from these
different sources, the enactments of this Bill, which he
prayed, them to pass into a law, had been framed. If
they accomplished that great work, they would reduce
into one digested body, luminous in its diction, clear and
logical in its arrangement, symmetrical in its form,
easily read, easily understood, easily remembered by the
subjects who have to obey, by the counsel who were
to administer, and by the judges who were to decide, the
whole criminal law of the country. They would, by so
doing, confer on their country an inestimable blessing,
and on themselves lasting renown, realising the wish of
Edgar, the Saxon King, that the laws of Britain should
be bound up in small compass, like unto a faggot, that
thereby they might be the better kept together—realising
the boast of Bacon to his Sovereign, that he would do
honour to his reign by a work useful to his country—
fully carrying out the sentiments of the highest legal
authority of these realms, the great Lord Coke, that a
code of laws, digested, and methodized, and reduced to
separate articles, as these were, was a work well worthy
the age, and one which would confer lasting benefit
on mankind—realising the wish of the first Stuart who
had reigned in this country, who was the enemy to
every innovation, and the friend to every established
prohibition, who had said that such a work were
worthy of the summoning of a Parliament to sit if it
were only for that ; realising the wish of Sir Mathew
Hale, the most venerable of legal authorities, who com-
plained in his turn of the- unnecessary accumulation of
law books, small as their numbers were in his day, but
who had not lived to see the process of accumulation
carried on as it had been in our times, but who had said,
Alluding to the comparatively small mass of law hooks
existing in his own days, that it would be a work worthy
of the Prince and of the country, to make one clear me-
-thodical digest of the whole ' • doing a work which had
occupied the attention of all classes of statesmen, from
Fursell, and Atkins, and Whitelocke, down to Barebones
and Harrison, as a living kind of intellect, from the
highest to the lowest, had felt the necessity of accom-
plishing this great work; doing a work, which both
Houses of Parliament, in 1816, in an unanimous
resolution, recommended should be done without
delay ; and which the great criminal law reformer,
the Prime Minister of the present day, had alone been
partly able to accomplish, and who had said that high
official station, and large official influence, was chiefly to
be prized because it enabled those who possessed them to
do such acts as these.—(Hear, bear.) The subject was
so important that he would not apologise for having de-
tained them. but would beg of them to give the Bill a
second reading, in order that it might be referred to a
Select Committee up stairs.

The LORD CHANCELLOR would not then follow
his Learned Friend through his able, eloquent, and com-
prehensive speech; he thought the Bill ought to be read
a second time. The Commissioners hal been required
to direct their attention-Ist, to a digest of the statute
law; 2d, to a consolidation of the common law, as it re-
garded the criminal jurisprudence of the kingdom ;
and 3d, .to consider the expediency of combining
the whole into one statute. They had considered it ex-
pedient so to do, and that was the foundation of the
present Bill. There could be no doubt as to the ex-
pediency of that part of the Bill which digested the
criminal statute law, and repealed those contradictory
and obsolete enactments which were a disgrace to the
statute book; but with regard to a consolidation of the
principles and rules of common law, he had thought it
his duty to make inquiries of persons employed in the
administration of justice upon that point, and the ques-
tion was one of so much doubt and difficulty that he
should advise their Lordships to pause before adopting
those suggestions. The principles by which the common
law was at present administered were derived from the
text books, and were applied by the judges to the circum-
stances of various cases as they came before them.
Now, it required much consideration before he
could consent to subvert such a system, and
substitute in its place fixed and invariable
rules. He must be satisfied that those rules were so
comprehensive as to embrace the whole of the principles
of the system which it was intended to subvert. He be-
lieved his Noble and Learned Friend would not admit the
policy of abolishing the system, unless he were satisfied
upon
.that point. He did not think that much benefit
would be derived from sending the Bill to a Select Com-
mittee up stairs. He would advise his Noble Friend to
have the Bill read a second time—to let it stand over—
and early next session to have it re-produced. In the
meantime, the Government would devote its attention to
the subject, and persons would be employed, he hoped
with the concurrence and co-operation of his Noble
Friend—(" Hear, hear," from Lord Brougham)—to go
through all the details, so that the country should have
a sufficient guarantee that the rules would
be comprehensive enough to embrace every case
which it was intended they should meet. An-
other reason why ho wished for delay was,
that the Commissioners were at this moment employed
in examining a very important branch of this subject,
he meant that which related to trial and procedure. In
a short time they would have completed their labours,
and the result would be that in the same measure they