The Sun.
London, England, 1868-03-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS-LAST EVENING.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his siat on the Woolsack
at five o'clock.

BANKRUPTCY ACT REFORM BILLS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he would now
go into a detail of the nature of these bills, which it was
not convenient to do when first introduced. He would
remind their lordships that the last consolidated measure
in bankruptcy was in 1849, and no alteration took place
until 1859. His noble and learned friend, then Lord
Chancellor, who introduced the bill of 1859, added to it
four extremely important measures. One was the total
abolition of imprisonment for debt. It made also a dis-
tinction between trader and non-trader. It regulated the
proceedings of trustees, and also provided for composi-
tion with creditors. Iu 1861 another bill was
introduced, which provided very similar dis-
tinctions. (Hear.) It was found, however, that
there was some inconvenience in the working of this bill.
and some dissatisfaction was expressed. A select com-
mittee was appointed, which sat duri❑g the years 1861-65.
In the latter that committee reported their opinion as to the
alteration in the bankruptcy laws in 32 clauses, and with
the exception of one or two clauses his bills were similar.
His act was a consolidated one, and when they were
drawn any one having them in his hand would
know what was the whole of the bank-
ruFtcy laws. He would go through the different points
which ho wished their lordships to adopt. The first was
the question of imprisonment for debt. Of course they
knew that after judgment execution could be taken, and
the debtor might be taken into custody. Under the
Lew bill they proposed to abolish imprisonment
for debt altogether, that is to say, at the
option of the creditor. Their lordships would then ask
what they would provide instead of imprisonment for debt
after judgment. They proposed that he should be required
to give security, like an absconding debtor, or be put into
prison in default of doing so. He would then resort to
the Court of Bankruptcy. Of course there would remain,
finally, the imprisonment from County Courts
This brought him to the system .of imprisonment from
these courts. Ho proposed that no committal should be
made in any County Court except by the Judge himself,
and then only in open court, and that every County Court
should make an annual return to Parliament of the num-
ber of persons so committed. Individually he would be
glad to see imprisonment for debt abolished, but at pre-
sent it would be difficult to abolish it all at once, though
he thought the course he recommended would lead to a
reduction of the hardship. His lordship then went on to
point out the provisions of his bill as regarded persons
made bankrupt on their own petition, and the checks
which he proposed to impose on this increasing practice,
and also the grounds on which be would give the Court
the right to suspend the order of discharge in certain
cases. He proposed no new courts nor new Judges; but
oa the contrary, that the district courts should be ab-
sorbed and closed as each Commissioner died.

Lord WESTBURY, like the Lord Chancellor, dwelt
most strongly upon the evils and inconsistencies of the
present law, and pointed out the frauds which were almost
openly committed under it. If a really competent tribunal
was erected under the new acts, the frauds anci plunder
now complained of would be prevented, and confidence in
the administration of bankruptcy would be restored, for
creditors would feel some assurance of receiving what an
e,tate was capable of producing without being subject to
the present enormous deductions.

Lord CHELMSFORD, after coinciding with the pre-
vious speakers as to the great difficulties which lay in the
way of satisfactory legislation on this subject, gave a gene-
ral support to the principles of the bills, and agreed, as had
been suggested, that they should be referred to a select
committee, where they might receive the consideration of
noble and learned lords who had devoted special attention
to the subject, and who would put the measure in the best
possible shape.

- Lord RWIILLY thought the bill seemed to go in the
right direction, but did so very timidly. He agreed in all
the condemnations that had been passed on the present
state of the law, but was still not at all sanguine about the
success of this bill, and could not help thinking that the
Lord Chancellor was right when he said his bill would
probably not be found quite satisfactory. If the bill came
before the house from a select committee, he would pro-
pose several amendments in it which, in his opinion, were
required to place the measure on a proper basis.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in reply, very briefly de-
fended the principal clauses of the bill, and said that the
chief evils of the existing system of bankruptcy were too
much official interference and too great expense. In that
sentence all the defects of the law of bankruptcy wore
comprised, and the best way was to make the creditors
themselves the masters of the estate, through the inter-
vention of a trustee appointed by themselves.

The bills were then read a second time, and their lord.
ships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-LAST EVENING
THE ARMY ESTIMATES.

The house then went into committee of supply, and
Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to move the army estimates.
The gross total required for effective and non-effective
services was £15,455,400 against £14,388,000 last year. The
right hon. gentleman proceeded to refer to the different items
making up the above totals, and remarked that, wi,h re-
spect to recruiting, it 'WM at present progressing most
satisfactorily. There was a matter which ho hoped soon
to see abolished, and that was the scenes that were now so
familiar at public houses, a matter altogether most objec-
tionable. (Hear, hoar.) He was glad to say that General
Edwards, the Chief of the Recruiting Department, also was
of opinion that the using of public-houses for such a pur-
pose was altogether most objectionable, and it was pro-
posed to form recruiting depots in all the large
towns in the country. (Hear, hear.) They had at pre-
sent two of those depots—one in London and the other in
Bristol, both of which had worked so satisfac-
torily, and an extension of the system could
not but be considered beneficial both for the
country and the recruit. (Hear, hear.) In the 'militia
there Wftt3 an increase of £Bl,OOO, bat this was produced
by the receipt of allowing lodging money to officers.
The case of the Quartermasters had also been con-
sidered with respect to the same subject, and it had
been determined to increase the amount given to
them as lodging money, viz., 10s. to 14s. per week. He
also proposed to carry out the arrangement made by his
gallant friend the member for Huntingdon (General Peel)
of forming the militia into a reserve foie() of 30,000
men, ready at any emergency to join the regular
army, and General Lindsay had been appointed
to the command of that reserve force. The hon. gentle-
man then went on to refer to the charge of the ♦olunteers,
which he said amounted in ,the present year to
£385,150, an increase of .£21,150, and ho expressed his
regret that ho was unable to increase the capitulation
grant. In the number of men there was a slight decrease
—from 137,245 to 136,650—and there were slight increases
in the clothing and barrack votes. On the Hospital vote
there was also an apparent increase of about £105,000-
caused by the transfer of the medical officers from one vote
to another. Sir John next explained his reasons for not
agreeing entirely in the report of the committee on retire-
ment in the Artillery and Engineers, and he congratulated
General Peel on the unqualified success of the change he
had made in the recruiting system, which was shown by
the large number of re-engagements, the unusually small
discrepancy between the actual establishment and the
numbers voted, and the improvement in the class of re-
cruits. He stated, too, his intention of carrying out some
of the recommendations of the recruiting commission as
to military schools. Passing to the Reserve Forces, Sir
John stated that in the Militia Vote there was an

increase of a little over £Bl,OOO, caused by an
increase in the number of men and by the allow-
ance of lodging money to the quartermasters. In the
Volunteer vote there was also an increase of £24,150, the
capitation grant having risen from £205,500 to .£228,235 ;
while the efficionts had risen from 115,427 to 124,605, and
the extra-efficients from 78,280 to 90,515. He canvassed
the claim of the Volunteer officers for an increase in the
capitation grant—justifying his refusal—and announced
his intention to place the Militia, Volunteers, and Reserve
forces generally under the command of one officer, Gen.
Lindsay. On the votes for stores and supplies, he explained
that the increase was chiefly apparent, arising from a trans-
fer of charge. It was proposed to convert this year
160,000 Enfolds to Sniders, against 210,000 last year, at a
cost of £159,604, and this would exhaust the Enfields
available for conversion. With regard to the arm of
the future, Sir John mentioned that no decision
had yet been come to, but Lord Spencer's sub-
committee was inquiring into it, and he expressed
a strong belief that no country poSsessed a bettor
arm than the Snider. Pointing out that it would be ne-
cessary immediately to undertake considerable expense for
arming the fortifications which we had already built in
different parts of the world, he announced his intention to
place the manufacturing establishments at Woolwich
under the control of a commandant, and in the concluding
part of hisspeech he canvassed at length the recommenda-
tions of Lord Strathnairn's Committee on Army Admini-
stration, and explained what he intended to do towards
carrying them out. Sir IL Storks and General Balfour
had been added to the War-office, and they had already
drawn up plans for improving the external control of the
War Department and the ;system of audit, which would
lead to a considerable saving. They were also prepared
to recommend changes in the Traasport Service, which
would give us a most complete system.

7 -
The Marquis of HAR FINGTON complained of the
continuous tendency of the Army Estimates to increase
under the present Government, and contrasted it with the
decrease effected by the late Govetrunent. As to the plan
for reorganising the administration of the army, it would
require very close investigation, and ho deprecated a pre-
mature discussion of it.

General PEEL pointed out that for our increased ex-
penditure we had got a vastly improved system of recruit-
ing, and had armed our troops with breech-loaders. The
usual desultory conversation followed, embracing all the
points touched on in Sir J. Pakington's speech. Towards
the clgie vl it Alr, OtWaY rami tv mime tie WWI num-