The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-13 00:00:00

that the Protestants of Ireland might be at rest as
to the maintenance of their rights and privi-
leges ; but he at the same time would desire to
see a provision made for the Roman Catholic clergy,
which he thought would contribute to the pacification
of the country.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL said that the Hon. Baronet
who had just sat down would, it seemed, most gladly
make a provision for the Roman Catholic clergy of '
Ireland, which was not wanted by them, and which
they refused—(Hear, hear) ;—but he would not give
them that to which they were justly entitled. The
time was when they would have gladly accepted
such a provision ; but the Honourable Baronet
might thank the party with which he, at present
acted that their proposal was not received. He
thought the allusion to the want of interest mani-
fested upan this subject was more infelicitous, be-
cause it could not be supposed that, after listening to
a long discussion on the mode of preserving dead
bodies, they could give a very rigid attention to the
important motion of the Hon. Member for Sheffield.
They had already induced a state of despondency in
Ireland ; by their vote that night they might super-
induce a state of despair, and what would be the result
of that it was impossible to say. Consenting to go into
a Committee on this subject at this late period of the
session would be a matter of much importance.
What Irish measures had been introduced in this
session ?—(Hear.) The Irish Registration Bill had
convinced the majority of the people of Ireland
that the Government intended to limit, rather than
extend, the franchise. The Municipal Registration
Bill was, if possible, still more offensive, and if it ever
came to be discussed he believed that would be
proved to be the fact.—(Hear.) He alone had
presented, during the present session, more than 300
petitions against that measure. Now, they had an
opportunity at present of exciting the gratitude
of the Irish people by going into Committee on this
subject. The State trials were over. Had they checked
the influence of the conspirators ? Had they not at this
moment a cry throughout Ireland for the great mea-
sure of relief which it had been their effort to preclude.
In the same district, where Archdeacon Lacy re-
sided, and where he died, possessed of the wealth that
had been mentioned, the Catholic dignitary died, after
fifty years of labour, possessed of only tenpence-half-
penny, and the expense of his funeral was defrayed
by subscription. It was incumbent on them to do
something for the Catholic people of Ireland. The
memory of the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the
Colonies, seemed to have failed him regarding the
language used by him on the subject of the Catholic
oath. His observations were most injudicious and
ill-timed, and rankled in the minds of the people of
Ireland. Their attempts to prop up the Established
Church in Ireland were only sapping and under-
mining it, and it must, ere long, tumble about the
ears of its supporters, if they did not make a material
change in their policy. The people of Ireland were
now in a state of the greatest political excitement ;
and there was an immense number of troops which
they could not at present withdraw, whatever their
exigencies might be. Within the last two months a
patnph'et had been issued from the French press
which had excited general attention—it was the pro-
duction of the son of the King of France, and it had
sunk deeply into the minds of the French people.
Suppose the amicable relations with France became
disturbed, which was not at all unlikely, and that the
plan of the Prince tie Joinville was carried out, that
war steamers and gun-boats were sent to the coast of
Ireland, let him ask the Government then to whom
would they trust for the defence of the country ?
Was it to the Established Church, or to the Protestant
clergy, or was it to the stout hands and warm hearts
of the peasantry ? Well, he really thought, notwith-
standing the high opinion the Right Hon. Baronet
seemed to entertain of the strength of the Protestant
squirearchy, they would make but a feeble defence
against a formidable invasion.—(Hear, hear.) Were
they wiling to give the people some earnest that they
intended to legislate on principles of equality and jus.
tice ? If they were, they should begin in time, and
not wait until it might be too late—until the enemy
was at hand, when no doubt they would be lavish
enough of promises, but when promises would be
useless. He would not trespass further on the time
of the House.

Mr. HORNBY opposed the motion, and dwelt
upon. the necessity of maintaining the Established
Church in Ireland in its present condition. No-
thing would more tend to weaken the connection
between the two countries than impairing the
strength of the Irish Establishment.
Mr. DILLON BROWNE, after a preliminary
observation on the reason which induced him to
come forward, proceeded to say, that he regretted the
Hon. Member for Sheffield had not made his motion
more definite, and had not aimed a more determined
blow at the Irish Established Church. The speech
of the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, had
extinguished all hope of the Government making any
change in the present system. He declared the Church
must continue a fixture—that it was an irreproachable
monument of the wisdom of their policy, and that not
a ray of truth or inquiry, should penetrate into the
darkest of its recesses. In his native parish, Glencoville,
for forty years,there had not been a-Protestant Church
nor a Protestant rector, and yet his tenantry were
obliged to pay tithes, or rent-charge, which was the
same thing, although they all went to mass, and
though there was not a single Protestant in the pa-
rish. His father was a Roman Catholic ; his mother
and sisters were Protestants ; but his mother and
sisters had travelled eleven miles to church every Sun-
day. They might have gone to the next parish church,
but there they would have heard a long sermon, in
which Roman Catholics were attacked in the coarsest
and most vituperative language, and they did not like
to listen to a sermon in which their father and bro- ,
thers were denominated infidels and idolators.-1
(Hear, hear.) Archdeacon Marlay, of the parish of
Anaghdown, in Galway, had no other congregation
than his clerk, and he was a Roman Catholic.—
(Laughter.) Once the Archdeacon was invited to
dinner on a Christmas-day by a parishioner, and ex-
cused himself for delay on the ground that his clerk
had been at mass, as it was Christmas-day.—(Re-
newed laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to
applaud himself for the more equal division of the re-
venues of the Established Church, which had recently
take place in Ireland, but what was it to the people
as long as they were obliged to pay the same money,
whether the remains were given to few or many ? It
w as little satisfaction to the man who had been robbed
by several highwayman, that the spoil had been
equally distributed among them. Before the French
Revolution broke out, M. Necker, father of Madame
de Steel, took the tax off the hat to put it on the
shoe. The French people laughed at him ; and be-
fore they guillotined the Monarch, they caricatured
the Minister. He approved of Lord Howick's no-
tions on the Irish Church, and thought that, if car-
ried into operation, they would be productive of the
greatest benefit to the whole people. The Executive
Government of Ireland were persons who were inca-
pable of performing the functions which had been en-
trusted to them. How could the people of Ireland be
contented under the present system of government in
that country ? It would be contrary to nature to
expect it. The Church Establishment must perish
sooner or later. Even if repeal were not carried,
such an Establishment could not continue with the
sanction of such an intelligent population as the inha-
bitants of this empire. The mind of Ireland had be-
come too elastic and buoyant to sink under so unna-
tural a burden.
Er. HAMILTON regretted that the Hon. Mem-
ber for Sheffield should think it his duty to make an
annual attack upon Church property in Ireland. The
time was gone by when the question of the Church of
Ireland was likely to be an engine to be used for
party purposes. He believed that the maintenance of
the Church of England in Ireland was calculated to
maintain religious truth. It ought to be kept up be-
cause this was a Protestant State. He would ask
whether 2001. a year was too great an
income for a gentleman of education to enjoy who
held the situation of a beneficed clergyman ? yet this
amount was that which would only fall to the share
of each clergyman of England if the annual income
of the Church were divided equally amongst them.
Considerably more than one half of the benefices of
Ireland were less than 3001. a year, and only about
twenty-six were more than a thousand a year.
These facts were shown by the reports of the Eccle-
siastical Commissioners. The Hon. Gentleman then
read a statement of the amount derivable from several
benefices in Ireland. He was sure that the more the
question was discussed the better situation the
Church would stand in.—(Hear.)
Sir C. NAPIER thought that they would never
do justice to Ireland as long as they were in a state
of peace; it was not wise or politic to let Ireland re-
main in the state she was. He thought great consi-
deration ought to be given to the pamphlet of the
Prince de Jonville.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no
division took place, and on our re-admission to the
gallery we found
Mr. P. BORTHWICK addressing the House in
opposition to the motion. He regretted extremely
that this motion should be brought forward annually,
as he considered it calculated to excite irritable feel-
ings between the Roman Catholics and the Protestants.
The real grievance of Ireland was not in the Church,
but in the poverty of its people and the bitterness of
party feeling. Even the cry of repeal had carried
but little weight, till the magical words " fixity of
tenure," had been brought to its support. Then was
it that the multitude rushed to the support of Mr.
O'Connell, and that the isle was frighted from its
propriety. This " fixity of tenure" was that which
roused Ireland, and not the connection between
Church and State—a connection which he (Mr.
Borthwick) maintained was a desirable and a neces-
sary one in any country. Only a short time ago an
illustrious individual in another place had declared that
every man, whatever his belief might be, Was inte.-
rested fn maintaining the principles of the Reform,