The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-19 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 18,

The SPEAKER took the Chair at five minutes before
Four o'clock.
CLERICAL, MEDICAL, AND GENERAL LIFE
ASSURANCE SOCIETY BILL.
On the House going into Committee on this Bill,
Sir R. INGLIS objected to the Bill on the ground of
its involving the sacrifice of a considerable portion of
the revenue.
Mr. IJAYTER said the Bill only contemplated the
payment of a stamp duty on certain memorials which
were necessary on a change of trustees in the society,
and would not cause any sacrifice of the public revenue.
After some farther conversation, in which Mr.
Brotherton, Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Hayter, and Sir R.
Inglis joined, the Bill passed through Committee.
The Licensed Victuallers' and General Fire and Life
Assurance Company (No. 2) Bill (Stamp Duty on Me-
morials), and the Guardian Fire and Life Asburance
Company Bill (Stamp duty on Memorials) severally
passed through the Committee.
THIRD READINGS.

The following private Bills were severally read a third
time and passed :
Architects, Civil Engineers, Builders, and General Fire
and Life Insurance, Annuity, and Reversionary In-
terest Company (Incorporation of the Company under
a different name).

Buckinghamshire hallways.
CALEDONIAN AND EDINBURGH, AND GLAS-
GOW RAILWAYS AMALGAMATION BILL.
On the name of this Bill being called,
Mr. COWAN moved that the order for the second
reading of the Bill be discharged, on the ground that the
proposed amalgamation went to the confiscation of pro-
perty; he, therefore, moved that it be read a second time
this day six months.
Sir R. Inglis, Mr. Fox Manic, and Ddr. Lushington,
expressed themselves against the principle of the Bill,
on the ground that it had in view the spoliation of
property.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the Bill was so utterly re-
gardless of the rights of private property that he was
quite sure the House would never entertain it.
Mr. GLADSTONE thought that the, introduction of
this Bill had been a great blow to railway inter• ti, and
the only way of reparation lay in its rejection, and in
the reception which it bad met with in the House.
Mr. Denison, Mr. Ellis, and Mr. ilutne supported the
motion.

The motion was then agreel to without a division.
PETITIONS.

Several petitions were'presentAaaaiust the emplo3-
nient of Sundl.y labour in the Post-office.

Sir 11. INGLIS, prese,nted petitions from Durham and
other places against the Marriage Bill.
Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from shipowners
at Dundee for a repeal of the timber duties.
Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition from Bristol
in favour of an alteration of the mode of rating surgeons
in the navy.
Mr. FREWEN presented a petition from a place in
Sussex in favour of summary convictions in cases cf
petty larceny.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY presented several petitions
from places in Lancashire praying that the franchise
might not be given to persons who did not pay taxes.
Mr. WESTHEAD presented a petition praying the
House to extend the jurisdiction of county courts.

Mr. GLAI)STONE presented a petition again it the
Marriage Bill.
Mr. H. ‘VILLYAMS presented a petition praying for
the adoption of ocean penny r,:tage.
Mr. HAMILTON presented a petition praying for the
amendment of the Factory Act.
Mr. CO WAN presentpd several petitions from places
in Scotland against the Marriaje Bill.
COUNTY COURTS.
Mr. STANSFIELD presented a petition from Hud-
dersfield praying fox en extension of the jurislction of
the county court ..
POSTAL COMMUNICATION THROUGH FIFE.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the provost, ma-
gistrates, and town council of Arbroath, complaining of
the manner in which the Post-office communication is
conducted through Fife.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
Lord JOHN MANNERS presented petitions com-
plaining of agricultural distress from places the names
of which were inaudible in the gallery.
MOIIILL UNION.
Lord NAAS presented a petition from the ratepayers
of the Mohill Union, in Leland, complaining of the fla-
grant acts if ale vice-guardians in that union.
TEN HOURS BILL.
Colonel cuATIERTON presented a petition from
the city of Cork in favour of this Bill.
Similar petitions were presented from places in Scot-
land by Mr. Maccnudon and Sir George GREY..
DUTY ON PAPER.
Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from a glace in
Yorkshire preying the House to repeal the duty in
paper and the advertise ment tax.
Mr. EWA RT presented a similar pi titian.
MARRIAGE WITH A DECEASED WIFE'S
SISTER.
Mr. FORBES presented a petition from the Presby-
tery of Edinburgh against this Bill.
Sir DE LACY EVANS presented a petition in 'avour
of giving honorary rewards to surgeons in the navy.
Str J. TYRELL presented a petition front Essex
praying that all Post-office business throughout the
country might be suspended on Sunday.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition agreed to at a pub-
lic meeting at Manchester, in favour of the abolition of
punishtnent for death.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from Chester
for the abolition of the excise duty on paper and the
newspaper stamp and advertisement duty.
THE BALLOT.
. Mr. BRIGHT gave notice that to-morrow he should
present a petition trom the electors of Scotland on the
subject of vote by ballot..
RETURNS.
The following unopposed returns were ordered :
" Return of all Bills draws foi the payment of head
money for the capture or destruction of pirate:, as
directed in the second section of the Act 6 Geo. 4,
c. 49, on her Majesty's Paymaster-Goner al, since the
Ist day of January, 1849.
" Return of the minute addressed by Mr. Rowland
Hill, on the 3d day of February, 1849, to the Pestmas-
ter-Geoeral, on the Sunday duties of the Post-office ; of
all documents and papers relative to the adoption of the
recommendations of that minute ; of the date when such
recommendations were carried into effect ; c-f the num-
ber of persons employed in the General Post.
office previously to and subsequently to such
date ; of the number of persons employed in the
General Post-office on Sunday, the 10th day of March,
1850 ; of the number of persons relieved of Sunday la-
bour in the provincial post-offices of England and Wales,
and of the average number of hours per head, per Sun-
day, to which such relief extends ; of copies ( f all cor-
respondence between the Post-office and the Treasury
on the subject of Sunday duties ; of all Post-office mi-
nutes and reports thereon, and of all memorials against
Sunday labour in the Post-office, addressed to her Ma-
jesty's Government."
"A tabular return of all debts incurred under the Acts
8 and 9 Vic., c. 107, 10 Vic., c. 7, or any other Acr, since
January 1845 (specifying the Acts), which remain due
by (stun electoral division in each union in Ireland; also,
a tabular return of all debts due at the last audit from
each electoral division to the union, in every union in
Ireland."
MARRIAGE AND REGISTRATION ACTS.
Mr. EwAwr inquired of the Right Hon. Secretary
for the Home Department whether the Government ir.-
tended to introduce any Bill this session for pone:aline-
the Marriage lied Registraton Acts passed in the
seventh year of his lstis Majesty's reign; particularly
with reference to the rep, al of so much of the first of
these Acts as requires a seven clays' notice to be given
and read at a meeting of the board of guardians prior to
the issue of a licence?
Sir GEORGE GREY said he had been in commu-
nication with the Registar-General on the subject, who
was of opinion that some modification of the existing
law as to the notice of marriage was necessary to pre-
vent clandestine marriages, but that this might be done
without bringing in any Bill for the purpose.
LIABILITY OF RAILROAD COMPANIES.
Mr. SPOONER asked the Pre-ident of the Board of
Trade whether he intended to propose auy measure for
the purpose of remedying the evils complained of in the
petitions presented on the 14th of March, arising from
the state of the law relative to the liability of railroad
companies in case of accidents.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the conclusion he had come
to, after having consulted competent persons, was, that
it was not expedient to increase the liability of railway
companies in this respect. lie thought the judgment of
Baron Parke, in the Court of Exchsqaer, had nu; only
clearly laid down the law on the subject, but that it
WAS not expedient to alter it.
INSPECTION OF MINES AND COLLIERIES.
Mr. WYLD asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, at what period of the see'ion he will
introduce the Bill for the inspection of mines and col-
leries ?

Sir GEORGE GREY said so soon as he had received
the reports of the three gentlemen who had been sent
to inquire into the cause ut accidents in mines he would
b., able to lay when he could introduce the Bid.
MEDICAL PROFESSION.
Mr. WYLD rose to ask the Secretary of Slate fer the
Homo Departssent, if it be the intention of the Govern-
ment to bring forward any measure fur the bettor regu-
lation of the medical profession?
Sir G. GREY said that a Bill was in the ha'ids of the
Lord-Advocate, who was in communication with various
parties on the subject, and that he would probably bring it
forward at as early a period as possible.
GORHAM T. BISHOP OP EXETER—MR. DENI-
SON'S PROTEST.
Mr. HUME rose, according to notice, to ask what
notice the Government intended to take of the protest s.f
Mr. Denison, published in all the raecrs, impugning
the judgment of her Majesty's Council ia the case of
Gorham v. the Bishop of Exeter, and denying the
supremacy of the Crown as head of the Established
Church.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that it would be only
just to Mr. Denison to read a statement which he (Lord
J. Rusteli) had that morning received, which professed
to be a statement of the opinion which that gentler's se
held as to the supremacy of the Crown in this matter.
Mr. Denison did not deny that her Majesty was supreme
over all causes iu her dominions, whether ecclesiastical
or civil; in ecclesiastical causes by her ecclesiastical
judges, in civil causes by her temporal judges; but he
denied her right to decide questions of doctrine through
the medium of her Privy Council. He (Lord J. Russell)
thought Mr. Denison was entirely mistaken in the
opinion which he had formed, and that the judgment
given by the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council
was entirely within their jurisdiction, and was such as
they were authorised by law to give.—(Hear.) lie
believed likewise that this decision had given very gene-
ral satisfaction. With regard to the other question, as
to what notice the Government intended to take of the
matter, the Noble Lord said he feared any at on the
part of the Government would tend to disturb the
Church still further, and that they certainly were not
prepared to adopt any proceedings with respect to the
protest of Mr. Denison.—(Hear.)
TIMBER DUTIES.
In reply to Lord JOCELYN,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was not in a position to give any positive answer as to
what his intentions were with tespeet to the abolition of
the timber duties until he bad beard the wishes and opi-
nions of the parties more particularly interested in the
matter.
In reply to a question from the same NOBLE LORD,
Mr. MITCHELL said it was not his intention to
bring on his motion for the repeal of the timber duties
till after Easter.
HUNGARIAN REFUGEES.
Mr. OSBORNE wished to ask the Secretary for Fo-
reign Affairs whether the Government of this country,
or our Ambassador at Constantinople, are parties, by
advice or otherwise, to the conduct of the 'I urkish Go-
vernment in condemning Kossuth, and the other Hunga-
rian refugees in Turkey, to banishment and confinement
in the interior of Asia Minor ; and, if not, whether her
Majesty's Government had offered any remonstrance to
that step ?
Lord PALMERSTON replied that her Majesty's
Government, through her Majesty's Ambassador at
Constantinople, had recommended the Porte to make
the detention of these persons—if the Porte considered
himself bound, by his communications with Austria, to
detain them—as short as possible, consistent with
his engagements with the Government of
Austria. Upon the broad quesOen he could only say
that his opinion was, that it would have been desirable
for the Porte, if he were under no engagements
not to detain them at all.—(Hear, hear.) The
Porte, however, might be under some engagement
to Austria, but if the Porte bad been at liberty to nut
with these persons as he thought proper, it would
have been much better had he not drtained them at all.
—(Hear.) But, believing that the Porte had placed
himself under an engagement in his communications
with Austria, which compelled him to detain them,
he had, no doubt, removed them to se-
cure the tranquillity cf Turkey, and her Ma-
jesty's (Internment, under these circuinstmees, had
tendered to the Porte the advice which he had just
mentioned.—(Cheers.)
AUSTRALIAN COLONIES BILL.
In reply to Mr. GLADSTONE,
Loud JOHN RUSSELL said lie. intended to brine en
this Bill next Friday.
SURVEY. OF THE THAI'sIES.
Sir J. FAKING lON wished to ask the Fit Lord
of the Admiralty, whether the survey of the river
Thames had been completed, and if so, how soon the
Board of Admiralty was prepared to communicate to the
public the result of the survey?
Sir F. BARING said the survey was already com-
pleted, but probably two months would elapse before it
could to made public.
STAMP DUTIES.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER said
that the resolutions he was then about to move would
deal only with that ohm of damp duties which related t 9 .

the tr.►nsfer of property, to mortgages, bonds, and leases.
He did not say that no other portion of our system of
s'amp duties required the consideration of the House;
but it would be remembered that the subject of a ge-
neral revision of those duties had been under the consi-
donation of various Governments for many years past.
In the time of Lord AlthoT p a scheme had actually been
pr,i,rtd upon the subject; a similar scheme had been
entertained by his Right Hon. Friend (Sir F. Baring),
th First Lord of the Admiralty, and he believed the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth bad also
had his at'ention directed to the matter. It bad been
found, however, that the greatest difficulties presented
themselves in the way of the adoption of a general plan
f)r dealing with the question. The experience they
had already had upon the subject, and the inquiries he
had himself instituted with respect to it, convinced him
that it would be better to deal with the case in de-

•ached portions than to attempt to embrace all COw
p'ex details in a general measure. The object of the resolu-
tion he had then to submit to the Committee was the adop-
tier, es nearly as possible, of an ad valorem duty on
that class of stamps on which ho proposed an alteration
of the existing law. Of course, however, it would be
irepcestble strictly to enforce such a duty, as that would
render it necessary that they should enter into endless
detaile. At present the "jumps" were very large, being
fur instance from 1,0001. to 2,000!., and from 2,000/. to
3,000 E He proposed to adopt a more minute scale. to
make the differences vary from 25/. to 50/., from 50/, to
1001., and then every 100/. after up to 1,0001. Perhaps
the most convenient course he could then pursue would
be to state a few instances of the changes which be pro-
posed to effect. In doing to ho should first confine him'
self to mortgages and bonds. At present on mortgages
and bonds not exceeding 501. the duty was 11, he pro-
posed to reduce it to 55.; on mortgages and bonds be'
twe en 50/. and 100/. the duty was at present 11. 108., be
proposed to reduce it to 10,; on mortgages and bonds
between 100/. and 2001. tee duty was at present 2/, he
proposed to reduce it to 11.; on mortgages and bonds
between 500/. and 1,000!. the duty was at present 5/., he
proposed that between 500/. and 600/, it should be 3/4
, between 600/. and 700/., 3/. 10s.; between 700 e and
800!., 41.; between 800/. and 900!, 4/. 10s.•' and
between 900!. and 1,000!., 5/. After that, and for
sums of er 10,0001, be should propose to go by sums
of 1001. He did not see why an ad valorem duty
should not be carried to the higher scale for the purpose
of indemnifying the revenue for the loss it might sustain
by the reduction cf the duty on the lower sums. Het
therefore, proposed to approximate by half per cent.
upon mortgages over that amount. The question of
stamps upon conveyances end transfers of real property
was of a more difficult and complicated character. In
reqect of this branch of the subject, he proposed to
edopt, in the first place, a d,ff2rent phraseology front
that used in the present law-namely, to substitute the
words not exceeding" such an amount, instead of " be-
tween" that and the following anaemia. He had, on the
last night on which he had addressed the House, read
an extract from the report of the Committee appointed
by the House of Lords to inquire into the burdens on
land, and he had shown, by the quotation of evidence
taken before that Committee, that the stamp duty
upon the transfer of real property was one of those bur-
dens. He had quoted the evidence of Mr. Baxter en
that subject-a man of intelligence and information--
and if it was any consolation to Honourable Gen'
tlemen opposite. be (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) might add, he was the Conservative agent of
toe West Riding. What he should propose in ac-
cordance with that statement was as follows •-` Con'
seyances and transfers, relieve up to 1,4001., half per
cent. up to 500/, a to 1,000/, 1 after 1,000/.-Not
amounting to 20/, lease 10s., release 10a.; not exceeding
251., proposed 2s. 6d.; amounting to 201. and under 50/.
lease 155., release 20e, present li. 15c.; amounting:to
501. and under 150/, lease 205., release 305., present 2/.
103.; exceeding 251. and nit exceeding 50/., proposed
55.; exceeding 50!. and net exceeding 751., proposed
7s. 6d.; exceeding 75/ and not exceeding 1001, proposed
10-.; exceeding 1001 and not exceeding 125/. proposed
12s. 63.; exceeing 125/. and nut exceeding 1501, pro'
posed 153.; amounting to 501. and under 300/., lease 355.
release 40=. present 31. 15..; exceeding 150/. and not ex-
ceeding 1751., propose! 175. 61.; exceeding 1751. and not
exceeding 200/., proposed 203.; exceeding 2004 and not
exceeding 2501., proposed 255.; exceeding 2501. and not
exceeding 300/. proposed 30e.; not exceeding 500!., pre-
sent, 71. 155., proposed 2/. 108.; not exceeding 8001.
present 10/.155., proposed 6/. 153.; not exceeding 1,0001.,
present 131. 15 e, proposed 71. los.; not exceeding 1,200/,
present 13/. 155., proposed 121.; not exceeding 1,400/.•
present 13/. 15c., proposed 14/." He proposed to repeal
altogether the stamp duty upon leases for years. At
pre: eat the transfsr duties upon small properties were 11
eensideration. It amounted to 10e. on the lease, and
10a on the deed-that was to say 1/. in all. He
proposed to reduce them to hat'-a-crown upon all leases
under 25/. This was his proposition-" Leases, where
the rent reserved is under 20/., present 1/.; not exceed-
, ing 25!., e per cent. proposed 2s. 60.; amounting to 201'
nod under 100/, present 1/. 101.; amounting to 100/. tied
under 2001, present 2/.; amounting to 2001. and under
4001, present el.; exceeding 251. and not exceeding
50!..
proposed 55.; exceeding 501. and not exceeding 754
proposed 7e. 63.; exceeding 751 and under 100!., pro-
posed 101.; exceeding 2501. and not exceeding 3001.. pro'
posed 11. 103.; exceeding 350/. and not exceeding 4001,
proposed 2/.; and so on." He had intended to have
uniform scale to 1,0001.; but he found it would only in'
crease the amount of the duty upon the lower trivafere.
lie proposed, therefore, that the stamp should be half
per cent. urn' 500/, 4 per cent. up to 1,0001., and 1 per
c nt. afterwards. Upon all transactions of this hind
between 1,000/. and 2,000/. the duty was now 3/. 15a.
He proposed that the new duty should vary with every
1001., leaving the smaller tre niters at the low rate he hsd
named, and increasing in an ad valorem ratio with the
higher. On the authority of Mr. Baxter, he could state
that the consequence of the existing duty was iejurieue.
This was his statement-" There is one suggestion that I
would 'peke with reference to the expense of the conveyance
of property of small value: that is, that the stamps upon
the sate of laud should not stand, es they do now, higher
upon the smaller amounts of property, but be regulated
by a per centage. I find that at present the stamp urn
a 50/. sale, calculating a certain length of conveyance,
would amount to 12i per cent. That the stamp upon
100/, sale would amount to 5/. per cent., and upon a 300/.
sale would amount to 2/. los. per cent.; upon a 500/.
sale to 1/. 14s. 3d. per cent., and then above that only
one for cent. This is not effected by saying, in so many
words, that a hue er to the amount of 50/. shall pay
12!. 103. per cent., which is the amount that he does pay;
but it is in consequence cf burdening the transfer of pro-
perty with a second conveyance, which we call a lease
for a year. It. was a principle of law that you were
obliged to have a lease for a year, and a release, in *
transfer of property; so that you had two distinct stamps
and two distinct deeds. An Act was passed, about O.
twelvemonth ago, relieving you of the necessity of basing
two deeds, but continuing the necessity of having to,a,
stamps. The consequence cf that is, that that men
stamp attaches to a 150/. purchase as much a*
it attaches to a 100,0001. purcnase. It tears, there"
fore, peculiarly hard on small properties ; and
a reduction of the stamps to an equal rate of one
per cent. upon the amount of the sale would be a see;
Bible relief, if it would nut be a gnat loss to the revenue.
He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had heard an ob-
jeation to this proposition. Ile she uld he sorry to 500
the land in England so subdivided us it was in a neigh"
bouring country, where many proprietors were but little
removed from the condition of paupers; but he did be-
lieve that the operation of the reduction he proposed
would be to cause the purchase of land by labouring
men, who might be anxious to invest the fruits of their
industry and skill in that description of property. lie
thought that this would be an eject gained, because he
believed it to be most advantageous to bold out an in'
ducement for agricultural labourers to better their con-
dition by becoming proprietors of the soil. With regard
to leases, he believed, as he had before stated, that many
persons had attached more importance to them than be
did, as connected with the improvement of the land.
They were not common in his part of the country, and
their scarcity was not found to be an evil. In fact, as
far as he could discover, this circumstance did not any
way interfere with the improvement of the land'
Others, however, differed from that view of the case;
but be that as it might the present heavy stool)
duty upon leases bad the direct effect cf preventing
leases from beirg given in most instances. It
was, therefore, desirable to reduce that duty,
and he proposed to do so. His proposition was to
adopt the same principle as he had laid down in thefts;
instance-namely, an ad valorem duty. This would be
the effect of that reduction :-Leases for rack rent,
under 501,, now 1/.; proposed,:up to 25/., 2s. 6c1.; 95,
to 501, Sc. Rents, not exceeding 10/., now 55., propose':
2s. 6d. ; 10/., and not exceeding 201., now 10s., propose!
2s. 6d. ; 251., and not exceeding 50/., now 155., prorW
ss. Rents, with a fine, lower, up to 75!. per annum,
He wished to call the attention of gentlemen from Ire
land to what he was about to say in in connexion 114"
this point; because leases in Ireland were exempt in
some cases from stamp duty, and in so far that count,'
was not on the same! footing as England in this respect;
His wish was to place them upon the same footing, but
he was not prepared to insist upon it, if there was any
objection on the part of Irish Members. He proposed
that leases under 501, should have a half-crown statOP'
With regard to all the others there would be a consider-
able reduction of the present amount. At present there
was a difference between ecclesiastical leases and cow;
mart leases, which he proposed to do away with. What
he proposed was that leases of 10L per annum should
beer a stamp of half-a-crown, and so on up to 501
Up to that there would be a relief on the present stamp_
duty; Ether that there would be an increase to a cella!n
extent in the existing duty. He was not, however, as e"
said, willing to do anything calculated to raise cbjee7
thins on the part of Irish Members; and be would not
insist upon altering the present exemptions if he W 55)
opposed. These were his propositions. He !Alive!
upon the whole, that it would be more convenient t
postpone the discussions on the details to the next stage
of the Bill, inasmuch as all the transactions of the ,
country, which it affected, would be held in a state_ of
suspense until it was passed; and ho should bo very glad
if the House would take that pOn
stage a s
nuttier of course, accerditigly; or defer the discussion n
tl,O details wail alter Easter, erpecially as he could net
c coneive cloy opposing a reduction of taxation.
re'
The Eight Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving a
end •
3 the, schedule ' t(3'to th
e n
effectid h
thaartethe ) stampree
in duties Great cßornittsaiinne 0
1.
Ireland after the pas.iug of the Bill, and that the pre'
amended
seat law reeulating those duties should be so
and altered.
the flight Hon. Ire ntlemen applied to house proper
aerr,_
Alderman SIDNEY inked whether the proposition,
.01
And also whether it was his inteniton to alter that p:
o the Stamp Act which regarded persons taking tip
__,.,
their freedom in cities upon redemption (55 Geo.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
pr
reduction would apply to the transfer of all kinds of Bi°
re The only difference was that leases for y°ll*-