The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-20 00:00:00

rica? By the want of forethought. Let not a similar
blunder be again committed. Let the Noble Lord learn
experience from the past. Let this country not again
commence a series of events which must finally end in
separation. We did so with respect to the thirteen
great colonies of America,
.which had now become inde-
pendent states.—(Hear, hear.) The question bofore the
House tens, whether they would have two chambers or
not. The Government proposition was a single cham-
ber, one•thild of which were nominees of the Crown.
Another proposition was two chambers, one of them
being elective; and then there was the proposition of the
Hoc. Baronet to have both the chambers elective. In
such a case as this he thought they might well permit their
deliberations to be guided by the seasoning and the ex-
ample of the great founders of the American Republic.
By them there were two elective chambers established.
They thus established a principle of government, the
want of which was even now felt in Canada. And now,
in proposing a chamber, two-thirds chosen by popular
election, and one-third by the Home Government, they
established an element of quarrels. Why, he asked
them, not try an a xperiment with their colonies which
had been/found not to fail in the United States, begin-
ning at Ohio and ending with California? By such
means they had established a Republican Government
which took its place amongst the nations cf the earth.
Let them not act as as if they believed Englishmen
incapable or unworthy of institutions which they, as
freemen, ought to demand. But then it was said,
these colonists were ignorant. He denied it. They
had acted as enlightened Englishmen in refusing
to receive a contaminated population from this country,
and in so doing they showed the dignity of their own
na.ure and the purity of their minds. 'I he English Gc-
verunrent never bad made a colony; the English people
had done so in spite of Parliament, and in despite of
Downing-street. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
smiled, but this was no smiling matter. The United
States showed what Englishmen could do when they
were free from their official trammels. Let them com-
pare Canada with the adjoining portions of the United
States. In the latter there was a great and a contented
people; and in the other a faineant, discontented, " an-
nexation" people. Let them not have any doubt or
hesitation as to Englishmen being able to govern them-
selves. Let them, he said, lay down a good principle,
and then leave it to their countrymen to prove that they
were of the same blood with themselves.—(Hear.)
Mr. M'CULLAGH said that, notwithstanding the able
speech if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he was es
yet unaware whether he intended to vote with the Hon.
Baronet or not. Those Hon. Gentlemen who were so
much, afraid of now applyiag to Van Diemen's Land the
principle, which they had acquiesced in when it was pro-
posed to apply it to New South Wales in the last Parlia-
ment, seemed to have forgotten altogether that then was
the time to have been indignant at, and to have
knocked on the head this proposition for a single
chamber. The Bill which embodied that proposition
was, however, gassed without a single division or protest
against it; and in the House of Lords nobody said any -
thing with reference to it but the Duke cf Buccleucb,
on the second reading, and •his Noble Friend Lord
Monteagle, who expressed his satisfaction at the mea-
sure. 'The exterienee we had had with regard to
America pointed to this simple rule in legisla-
tion—that if we desired that the colonists should
be 'animated with the spirit of the country from
which they sprang, they should seek to infuse into them
the babit•of finding remedies for their own wants, and
adopting institutions for their own necessities. Hon.
Gentlemen were assembled in a free senate, because their
forefathers had gradually and slowly made the institu-
tions of this country what they now were; and they
would never have been made otherwise. And we could
only Lope that those who were to be the image of our
institutions would enjoy the same happy fate and pros-
perity—if w e put upon them the duty--he would net call
it the burden—of performing for themselves gradually,
and as they progressed, that which was the most impor-
tant task that any free community could undertake.
Lord J. MANNERS—The Noble Lord at the head of
the Government had told the He use that so great was the
ignorance cf the Government at d this House with re-
gard to the feelings, wishes, and position of the colonists
for whom they were about to legislate, that they could
not fairly and properly take upon themselves to say
whether one or two chambers were better
too the' Australian colonies or not. If the Noble
Lord was sound in his reasoning they would thus
be debarred not only from deliberating upon the pro-
priety of having one or two chambers, but from deli-
berating upon this Bill at all.—(Hear, hear.) When the
Noble Lord said that two chambers could not bo legiti-
mately settled by this House, he would allow him (Lord
J. Manners) to Ink by what process of reasoning he had
arrived at the conclusion that the House, in the absence
of that necessary information, could take upon itself to
say that a federative assembly of all those Australian
states ought to be calls(' into existence? True, he read
a paper to show that some manifestation of feeling bad
taken place in one of the colonies against the proposi-
tion, not of the Hon, Member fur Southwark (Sir W.
Muleswol th), but of the Hon. Member for Mulhurst.
But if a newspaper report, which had not been seen by
Hon. Members, was to be taken as evidence, he (Lord J.
Manners) asked the Noble Lord if the paper then lying
by his side might not be taken as equally good evidence
that the proposition ccntained in the Bill was distasteful
to the population for whom he was about to legislate?
So far as he could gather the feeling was unani-
mously against a federative assembly. Why, then, were
they to be debarred from considering the question of two
chambers, whilst they were competent to legislate not
only with their ignorance, but with their knowledge of
the opinion of the colonists upon the subject of a federa-
tive assembly? They were called upon to lay deeply and
broadly the foundation of a colonial constitution, which
should afford a shelter to law and to religion. He should
have thought that all experience, all analogy, and all
tradition al feeling would point to a second chamber as
the more preferable form of a legislative body. But
the Hon. Gentleman dived into the recesses of Ameri-
can history, and brought to the notice of the House
two circumstances, which, however, had been satisfacto-
rily disposed of by the Hon. Gentleman ho sat near him.
The Hon. Member referred to Virginia; but what was
the burden of his story ? Why that Virginia, after
some y ears, found the anomaly and confusion created by
the system so great that the system broke down under
the burden—and with a candour that did him credit, the
Hon. Member also admitted that every one of the Ame•
rican states, as soon as they had the opportunity, upset
the very sy ate in he now called on the House to adopt for
the colonies.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member spoke
of the single chamber of France. What was the spectacle
the capital of that country presented? Why, tl at
the very existence of civil society depended on the
struggle fora single eeat in this single chamber between a
licentious novel- writer and an heroic tr, adesmar.—(llear,
hear.) He thought there was no need to refer to the tx-
perience of the past—the experience ci common sense
would suffice to tell them that a double chamber was the
best for all purposes. He did not hear the principle openly
repudiated by her Majesty's Government. The Noble
Lord, however, took care not to indicate a preference for
a single chamber. But this was to be expected from
those who aspired to tread in the footsteps of Pitt and
Fox. He would detain the House for a short time by
referring to an expression of opinion by Mr. Fox in
1791, when the Quebec Bill was debated. The opinion
of that statesman was to the effect that it was indispen-
sably necessary to make aristocracy a branch of the Ca-
nadian constitution, and for that purpose there ought to
be a legislative assembly established to correspond to
hereditary peers in the British Parliament. Govern

matt did na openly repudiate this opinion—they simiry
passed by it.—(Hear.) The papers on the table of the
House showed unmistakably what were the opinions of
the governors of the colonies. The Noble Lord had told
the House that the opinion of the Legislative Council of
South Australia was of little worth, as the members

were nominees of the Crown. If that was a valid ground
for placing no value on an opinion, what would be
the worth of an assembly to be constituted under
the Bill of the Noble Lord ?—(Hear, hear.) Was it not
clear, from all that had transpired as connected with
the subject of colonization of late years, that Government
could not do too much to create enterprise in that di-
rection? How could a combined movement be secured

unless by holding out inducements for respectable par-
ties to go out to the colonies? If you desired to see men
and women of gentle blood and high breeding led to
take a part in the colonial enterprise of the day, it could
only be affected by holding out a new home, in which
they would find the refinements, the courtesies, and, may
be, those honours which in their own country they
would not be debarred from?—(Hear.) It was partly
on that ground he was anxious for a second chamber,
net that he thought it would be wise at once to create
an hereditary chamber, such as the Legislative Council
of South Australia recommended, but became, by laying
the foundation deeply and broadly, they might rely on
it feelings would spring up which would in tune enable
the colonists to carry out sound constitutional prin-
ciples to their full development. This was one of his
main re asons for supportuig the amendment of the Hon.
Baronet. He might quote numerous dispatches which
had been recebtly received in support of his views, but
ha would not du so, as they doubtless were familiar to
the House. Those dispatches, however, must have due
weight with those who wished to do justice to the colo-
nies.—(Hear, hear.) He was anxious the House should
decide in favour of a double chamber, because of his
conviction that, by including as much of the aristocratic
element in the government of the colony as was advisable,
we should see the benefits of it in after time. Whatever
might be the decision of that House, he should have
the satisfaction of knowing he had done his duty, and he
would now venture to ask the House to support the pro-
position of
aioluedof tnhde Hon.
benefitedßaronet,by t h
efeei9lisut.gitucto.inovnisn_cweed
dtheraitveads

from our for. fathers, so it ti as right South Australia

should also enjoy the benefit of similar institutions.
Mr. KEOGH said many of his fellow-countrymen felt
a great interest in these colonies, and this induced him
to address the House. The Hon. Baronet had stated

that it was right and proper Englishmen should have
laws made by a majority of their representatives ; this
he concurred in—but tilt n the nor. Bacot et's amend•

meat was totallyt at variance
with
amendment
who supported b
that colonic.; shculd Le allowed to govsrn themselves,
didthat s principle,
on t h
Those
e groundand to moeel their own constitution. But which party,
ho asked, carrbd out those principles best—they only
who supported a single chamber, with a power to change
a constitution according to circumstances, or they who
wished to have two chambers withi ut such an import-
at. t power ? The Governor of S 3 (key in his dispatches
called attention to a numerously-signed petition, the prayer
oF which was to hope her Majesty would not sanction
any alteration in their constitution without first con-
sulting the colonist?. But had the colonists been con-
sulted on this subject. He asserted they had not, and
he would undertake to prove that the colonists were in
favour of a single chamber. At the various public meet.
Tugs, the speakers were generally in favour of a single
chamber, on the ground that at the pi esent time proper
materials for a second chamber did not exist in the colony.
He was not contending for the superiority of a single
over a double chamber. Ile did not mean to say that at