The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-18 00:00:00

ROUSE OF COMMONS, April 17.
(Continued from our Aftemen Edition of yesterday.)
EDUCATION BILL.
Mr. W. J. FOX moved the second reading of the
Education Bill.
Mr. A. STAFFORD rose, pursuant to notice, to move
that the Bill be read a second time that day six
months. He believed that there was no person in
that House, and few in the country, who did
not acknowledge the importance cf the subject involved
in, the B:11 of the Honourable Member for Oldham. All
would admit the ability with which the Bill was intro-
duced, but it must he recollected that the House, in
alowing the first reading, had not recognised the prin-
ciple upon which it was founded, but simply
pledged itself to consider the merit of it. On
the second reading of the Bill, the House was called
upon to adopt the principle and to sanction it, and he
therefore felt bound to come forward and record his ob-
jection to the measure. In the parishes in his immedi-
ate neighbourhood the children were educated•generally
at the expense of the landowners, but in the re—
turns to the House with respect to educe-
tion in the. country, no mention was made either
of the number of scholars, or of the parties who had the
expense of their education. He mentioned that not to
controvert the proposition of, the Hon. Member for
Oldham, that the state of education in England, was
lamentably deficient, but to show that the House
was not in possession of full information on the
subject. In considering the question of educa-
tion the House would have to be cautious
not to Violate the religious opinions of the public, and
in the second place not to found a system of centralize•
Lion in educating the- people. The measure now before
the House proposed to disregard the religious opinions
of a large section of the community, and in the next
place to form a system of centralization of the most ob-
jeceionable character. There was a strong feeling in the
country against merely secular education. to the exclusion
of religious teaching combined with secular education, and
he believed that milieu. Member in that House would
stand up and contradict that assertion. Not only was
the National Society for Education against the Bill, but
the correspondence which had taken place upon the sub-
ject by the members of the British and Foreign School
Society tended to show that that society was opposed
to the Bill of the Honourable Gentleqaan. He
looked upon the Bill as an invasion of the
right of civil and religious liberty, because it proposed
to abandon the principle that prevailed in the country,
that religion should form part of every system of edu-
cation, and thereby set at naught the religious feelingi
of a large -majority of the people of this country. The
Hon. Gentleman, after making a most searching ana-
lysis of the provisions of the Bill, for the purpose
of showing that it was founded upon a fallacious
principle, and upon incorrect details, concluded by
moving that it be read a second time this day eix
months.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY seconded the
amendment amid loud cheering. He believed that Eo'
man but an infidel would maintain that that education
was the best for man that was irrespective
of religion.—( Hear, hear.) He was a member
of a church that had always maintained that education
should be accompanied and upheld by the ministers of
religion.—(Hear, hear.) All experience told them that
secular education could not lead to religion. He might
be told that in England religion was too firmly based
to be in any way endangered by secular education,
but he believed that the introduction of a system
of secular education alone would go far to endanger the
moral and religious feelings of the country.—(Hear.)
In conclusion the Noble Lord called upon the Go-
vernment and the House of Commons to reject a mea-
sure -that substituted secular for religious education,
which could alone improve the morals and save the souls
of all. The two contending armies were drawing
near to each other, and the House had to decide which:
they would choose—heaven or hell.
Mr. ROEBUCK considered that secular education
was a species of fashioning the human mind for the per-
formance of duties in this world, and fitting man for that
which was to come, and whatever tended to so desirable
a result was entitled to the approbation of all well-think-
ing men; and as ,the measure now under the considera-
tion a the House tended to that desirable end, he would
give it his support. The education of the people came
clearly within the duty and prerogative of Government,
and even putting it on the lowest foundation, that of a
mater of police, it was the duty of the Government to
give encouragement to all that would improve the mind of
the young, that they might be better qualified to dis-
charge the duty of citizens when they were advanced in
years. In his opinion it was a mockery to talk of sal-
vation of souls when they allowed the mind to remain in
ignorance and darkness. He denied that the measure was
an attack upon tender consciences ors upon religious
toleration or liberty. The language of religious liberty
and tender conscience was .misplaced in the mouth of
the lion. Gentleman who moved the amendment, when
he refused to free the Dissenters from church-rates for
the support of a religious establishment which
they did not approve of. He did not expect
that this Bill would be allowed to pass, but
they might depend upon it that the strong and
growing feeling out of doors upon this subject would
very shot tly manifest itself in such a shape as to compel
the House ere long t pass a measure for the general and
unrestricted education of the people of this country.—
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The time of exclusive
ministries and schools was fast passing away, and that
period was rapidly advancing when the peaple at
large must he benefited by education, and its services
not be limited to a sect or a party.—(llear, hear.)
Lord ASHLEY opposed the second reading of the
Bill, and stated it to be his solemn conviction that upon
the decision of the House on this measure would depend
the future history of the British empire. He believed
that secular education would be pernicious without it
was accompanied by the salutary and control-
ling Influence of religious instruction. He had no doubt
-that in England more attention was paid by parents and
relatives of children to their education than in any other
country on the face of the globe, and it was, in his opinion,
a fallacy to suppose that in Prussia or America education
of the young was attended to more than it was in Eng-
land. He believed that the Hon. Member for Oldham was
now perfectly convinced that he kad not the Church of
England with him, or the Methodists, or any religious body
who held the principles that religion was essential as a
part of the education of the young. Such being the
tact, how, he would ask, could he expect to carry
on the measure to a successful issue? His
opposition to the Bill was based upon the ground
that no measure of education would be effectual, whether
undertaken by the State or not, unless it was founded
upon religion, and based upon that Eternal rock which
no storms could shako or uproot. He trusted that her
Majesty's Government, who did not discountenance the
introduction of the Bill, would state upon what grounds
they thought it could be supported.—(Hear, hear.)
Members were called upon to support a measure, which,
it it became law, would exclude all thoughts of religion.
Tithes and church-rates were unobjectionable even to
Dissenters, compared with the rates which would be im-
posed by this Bill. By this measure they were telling
the people that in a state education religion was not ne-
cessary. The object of the state must be to make the
people moral and good members of society, and he could
not see how that could be done without religion accom-
panying educatior.
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES supported the second
reading of the Bill, considering its objects to be to sup-
ply the deficiencies that at present existed in the moral
and religious education of the people of this country.
He trusted that the Government would take this question
into their serious consideration, and carry it through to
a successful issue.
The Kidderminster Election Committee was here
sworn, consisting of the following Hon. Members:—
Viscount Enfield, Mr. A. Stafford, Mr. Morris, Sir W.
Jolliffe, and Mr. Bouverie.
The debate was then continued.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, I should be very glad that
any Bill brought forward for the purpose of promoting
education should be such that I could fairly give it my
support on its second reading; and in treating of this
Bill I will endeavour to avoid as much as possible
everything that may savour of passion or intemperance
in stating my objections to it, and I will endeavour to
make every admission which I think is fairly due to the
author of the Bill and to the Bill itself. In the first
place, therefore, I must say, notwithstanding some al-
legations that have been made, that I think there is
still a lamentable want of education for the poorer
classes of this country, and that it still remains a desi-
rable object of Parliament to promote and further the
education of those classes.—(Hear, hear.) In the next
place, I must say that I think an unjust inference would
be drawn from the words used by my Noble
Friend who seconded the motion for the second
reading of the Bill this day six months, if
it were to be contended that even if we
were to establish schools whore none but secular
teaching could be admitted, it should follow by a neces
sat y consequence that these opinions would be inculcated
by authority, or that those writings, some part of which
we have heard read, would be at all prevalent among the
teachers there. I very much doubt whether, even it
l'arliwnent were to declare that certain schools should
be established, and that secular education only should
be permitted in those schools, giving the ordinary edu-
cation, teaching, reading, writing, grammar, geography,
and history, you would fivnedoptlheatthewrietlwi
otuhled phreeavnayiliiinig_
chlaibniattsioaniadto°aPdinoi;tiltshoefsethaeuthors as the standard of their
creed and belief. I very much doubt whether they
would not go, either, to the clergyman of the Estab-
lished Church, or to the minister of any Dissenting body
to whom they had been accustomed to look, and obtain
from them their religion, and not from such author
But, as
my Noble Friend has cited.—(llear, hear.) sin
making this admission, it does, I think, remain a very
grave question for this House to consider, whether they
will declare that there shall be schools established upon
this principle of giving secular education, and secular
education only.—(Hear, hear.) I own I cannot but
think that any education on such a basis must be lament-
ably insufficient.—(Cheers.) I cannot but think that
nothing but the most absolute -necessity should oblige
Parliament to come to such a conclusion, and establish,
by preference as it were and as a matter of choice, an

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A PAIR OF POST-OFFICE PETITIONERS.—The fol-
lowing instance, for the accuracy of which we can vouch,
may serve as an example of the unscrupulous manner in
which the anti-Sabbatarians (for such, as Lord Brougham
truthfully maintains, they practically are) get up their
petitions to Parliament : —On Tuesday, the 25th of March
last, about a quarter before eight in the evening,
two lads were passing the vestry of Free St. David's
Church, Ward-road, Dundee, when they were invited by the
beadle,. who was in attendance, to come in and sign a peti-
tion against Post-office labour on Sundays. The petition
bore to emanate from the congregation. The lads were
known not to be members of the congregation, and
they were visibly the worse for drink; but yet their
signatures were thankfully accepted. Within little
more than a quarter of an hour thereafter, they were
both in custody on a charge of murder, committed immedi-
ately after signing the petition, within three minutes' walk of
the spot they had done sot As the stand committed for
trial, we refrain from entering upon the circumstances further
than to say that we understand the affray commenced with-
out any provocationbeing offered to them by the deceased, who
was an unoffending young man, quietly going home with
his sweetheart, to whom he was about to be married; and
the more the fatal stab, which one or other of them is said to
have inflicted ,can be attributed to intlxication rather than to a
deliberate fe'kuious purpose, the more disgraceful it is that
the names of such persons should go up to the Legislature as
consientiol is subscribers to a petition of the object of which,
when they signed it, they could have had uo compreheuein
whateyek~Scotaman.

education for the children of this country in which reli-
gion should be entirely excluded—in which the immorta.
part of man should be altogether forgotten.--e(Louo
cheers.) To establish such a principle without an abso-
lute necessity would be a grievous falling off in out
own duty both to religion and the people. I can
imagine that there may be places where such secula,
education may be the only education that is possible. I
can imagine that, supposing the inhabitants; of a parish to
be so divided by religious dissensions as to have come te
the conclusion that it would be impossible even to admi
the reading of the Bible in the schools of the distrits
—supposing it to be utterly impossible for them to
agree on any one point of religious teaching whatever—
I can conceive that, under such circumstances, the State
might say that, in such an emergency and extremity,
ii
was better to give secular teaching to the children than to
omit school instruction altogether.—(Hear, hear.) But
the propositions contained in this Bill differ as widely
as possible from the propositions which I have just
stated. The Bill, I own, appears to me to be as contrary
to all freedom of choice, as little conformable to the usual
liberty allowed to Englishmen on this subject, as any Bill
which it has been my fortune to see introduced into this
House.—(Cheers.) The course which this Bill takes is not
a little singular. In the first place, . the inspector ap-
pointed by the Committee of the Privy Council, who has
the confidence of the Committee, who may or may not
have the confidence either of the Church of England, or of
the British and Foreign School Society, or of the Roman
Catholic body, or who may have been appointed' withdut
any such testimonials, is to state in 'his report, first,
whether there is an adequacy or an inadequacy of secular
instruction in any particular parish.—(Hear, hear.)
And observe it is not stated that he is to go by any
rule in framing that report. He is not bound to say
there are so many children, tbere are 500 children in a
parish, and 100 of them do not go to any school or re-
ceive
any instruction whatever. His discretion is far
more unlimited—(Hear, hear)—far more wide, because'
he is to state whether the education is adequate, and he
is to pay regard to the effect of any exclusion, whether
arising from the expense of schooling or from the pecu-
liar religious teaching adopted in any school, or any
other cause whatsoever. Why, it will depend entirely
upon the opinion of this inspector—it will depend en-
tirely on his opinion whether the instruction shall be held
sufficient er not.—(Hear, hear.) The next step, after
the inspector has made his report, is for the Committee
of the Privy Council to issue an order to the overseers
of the parish, directing the appointment of an
educational committee. Here is no option, no choice
for the parish, but immediately to appoint an educa-
tional committee. The educational committee, again, is
to take into consideration the state of the parish, and
raise rates in order to provide gratuitous instruction
solely of a secular kind.—(Hear, hear.) Why, Sir, we
must consider that we are here dealing with a country
in which many .schools have been established, schools
which, however they may differ on other points, gene-
rally agree on one principle, and that principle is totally
opposed to that adopted in this Bill.—(Hear, hear.) We
have the schools connected with the National Society,
which require that the children shall go to church on
Sunday, and that the Catechisni and certain formula-
ries of the Church of England shall beg, taught; and
the Wesleyans, who teach the Bible in their schools,
and likewise the Catechism, but do not insist on teach-
ing it, or anything but reading the Bible, to those
children whose parents object to the teaching of he
catechism. The British and Foreign School Society, in
the third place, which orders the reading of the Bible,
and makes it indispensable, but do not admit any cate-
chism or the formularies of any religions body whatso-
ever. We have the Roman Catholic schools again,
which are under the direction of their own priesthogd;
many subjects of secular instruction are mixed with '
religion, according to the opinions of the religious
teachers of that large community. Now here we have
many differences. I have stated to you, without men-
tioning the Congregationalists, and various other bodies
in this country, the various modes of conducting
these schools and the matter to be taught ; but
throughout all pervades this principle, that religion
shall be the principal thing taught.—(Loud cheers.)
Well then, Ido say that such being the case, if such
are the prevailing opinions orthis people of this
country, it is too much to come with a scheme
which shall oblige the ratepayers of any parish to
subscribe for the purpose of the schools to be
supported or established by this measure, and thus de-
stroy those schools already established by voluntary
contributions, for gratuitous education, which, accord-
ing to many teachers and persons having had experience
in education, was held to be the very best method of
teaching the people.—(Hear, hear.) What is. the feeling
which has been excited by this proposition, I will not
say amongst those belonging to the Established Church,
but others? What is the feeling expressed by the Wes-
leyan •conamittee ? They protest " Against any such
method these united conferences feel thems, Ives bound
to enter an earnest and renewed protest. The children
whom it may be deemed necessary to educate in whole
or in part at the public expense are—equally with all
others in more favoured circumstances—immortal beings,
and any system of instruction which does no regard
there in that light, and deal with their highest and
most enduring relations, must ever be viewed. by these
committees as essentially defective, and calculated, by its
omissions, to exert a most dangerous influence over
those who receive it."—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I believe
that this is not the opinion of the Wesleyans only, but
the -opinion entertained by others, engaged in the
great matter of education in this country ; and there-
fore I say, in the first place, with the Hon. Gentleman
who proposed the rejection of this Bill, do not interfere
with the conscientious liberty of those great bodies in
this country, whether belonging to the Church or dis-
senting from the Church, but leave them to continue
the education which they have hitherto supported.—
(Hear.) In the next place, as I have said, I think the
education that you would give without religion, though
it might, in extremity, be that which you would permit
in certain cases, must be exceedingly inferior to any
education which admits the teaching of the Bible.—
(Hear, hear.) I cannot but think it would be a great
fault, when you are providing a law for the instruction
of the people of this country, not to inform them of the
great and leading truths of religion; and I think, when
you are teaching moral doctrines, you lose nine-tenths
of the force with which they might be inculcated if you
do not tell the pupil that these are the precepts which
are given by I),vine authority—(Hear, hear)—which
have received Divine sanction, and upon which their
eternal welfare or misery is to depend—(Loud and pro-
longed cheering.) But, Sir, when you shall have estab-
lished these schools, what can you expect will be the re-
sult? I cannot but think, according to whet I have already
stated, that there would be, in the first place, very
great discouragement to all those who are now occupied
in teaching in schools supported by voluntary contribu-
tions. I certainly understood the Hon. Member who
proposed this• Bill, when he asked for leave to introduce
it, that the first and main object of tke Bill would be the
supporting by rates of schools which already exist, and
that any schools which were to be added would be sup-
plementary and in addition to the existing schools. But
I own I cannot read this Bill without feeling that it is
intended that these schools—these secular schools, are
to be the substitutes for the existing schools.—(Float,
hear.) How are the people of this country, who wish to
avoid establishing such schools, if this Bill were to be-
come law---and you are to suppose the Committee of the
Privy Council agreeing with the plan here laid down—how
are the people of this country who may still retain their
opinions in favour of religious instruction, and their love
for their old teachers and their established schools, to
which they have been accustomed, to' retain the power
of maintaining these schools, and refusing to establish
others for secular education?—(Hear, hear.) I find
this Bill so framed that there remains no mode of
escape, because it provides that if after the precept has
gone forth—after the edict has been issued to the over-
seers of the parish to appoint this educational committee
—if this committee shall not perform its duty in the
manner prescribed, then it shall be lawful for they Com-
mittee of the Privy Council to undertake to suplythe
deficiency, 'by establishing a school or schools for se-
cular education under this Act, and exercising the powers
given to the educational committee for that purpose.
Why, here is a power given to the Committee of the
Privy Council in these few words to force on the people
title Privy
free schools according to this scheme, and to frame and
object.—(Hear.)
such an
laemyyouunptoonf thteamasstinocnh :satetsheoretaLems7tteine fact,
power,'
Councilere s
Renewed cheers.) When
and which I cannot grant.--(
ampaoyw think necessary
which,ne slsarreyp!oatr, tihsisa odbejspotic
the Committee of the Privy Council was established
the Noble Lord who is now the President took especial
care, in writing to me upon the subject, to say that he
conceived the powers of the Committee ought to be
limited to the disposition of grants made by
Parliament for the purposes of education. Here
is a limited power—Parliament making the grant
and the Committee of the Privy Council disposing of it
according to rules and regulations which are laid before
Parliament, and if Parliament makes no grant their
power entirely ceases. But according to this Bill a
power of taxation is given to the Council which, even
though the calculation of my Noble Friend the Member
for Bath should prove unfounded—even though the
amount should be 1,000,0001. instead of 3,000,0001.
sterling, is still an enormous power to confer, especially
when not asked for by any parish, when not desired—
even if not objected to—by the people.—(Hear, hear.)
Seeing. then, that the Bill is so framed, certainly in'a
manner different from what I bad originally expected,
and certainly in a manner which I cannot believe
will be in conformity with the opinions or wishes of the
people of this country, I feel myself compelled to
give my vote for tl;e amendment moved by the
Honourable Member for Northamptonshire.—(Cheers.)
I must again repeat, that I do not think the means pro-
vided for education in this country are such that we
should rest satisfied.—(lisar, hear.) I think it would be
most desirable if we could obtain, before we went any
further into the subject, further information than Parlia-
ment now possesses as to the existing means of educa-
tion, and as to the schools which have been established
since the year 1833, the date of the last full information
on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) I think it would be most
desirable likewise to ascertain, where there is a de-
ficiency of education, if that deficiency arises from
want of schools to which parents might send their chil-
dren, if it arises from the state of poverty existing in
the district, or, as the Noble Lord opposite tells-us, in
SQIIIO instances from the employment of children o con-

weeessaseseeeas....
tenuously that there is no time lett for education. Infar- el GRAND BANQUET to MINISTERS.
oration on those subjects I think is stilt much wanted. In pursuance of the custom which the munificence
If we obtain that we can then reconsider the question; of the civic authorities has established, the Lord
but that it is one full of difficulties no man will deny.— Mayor and Lady Mayoress entertained her Majesty's
(Beer. hear.) When the Right Honourable Baronet u. e.
trusters at a magnificent banquet at the Mansion-
opposite, the Member for Ripon, then Secretary of State
souse yesterday. All the means and appliances which
ear the Home Department, brought forward a scheme
he residence of the first magistrate of the greatest
tor the education of a limited part of the population
—namely, those connected with the factories—l city of the world can boast were put forth in honour
certainly thought the scheme likely to be ben( ficial. .f an occasion in the due celebration of which no
But t'lere arose so much opposition to the scheme tha, party differences are allowed to intrude ; and the
the Right Hon. Gentleman, with all the care which he 4.n05l citizens of the ancient city met the first officers
ippliefl to modify it so as to meet the objections urged ;f State if not in the same guise, at least in the same
.against it, so completely failed in the attempt that to spirit as in those days when their trained bands de-
eas obliged to relinquish it.—(Hear, hear.) Groat part cided the fate of many a battle-field, and when the
of the objections which arose to that plan, as I heare lecision of their Lord Mayor ruled the fortune of
from the objectors whom I saw from Yariens parts a the
contending houses. The banquet was spread in the
country. and from various religious bodies, was that Etp,p„our which might he expected in the mansion of
tiara-hall hall with all the display of wealth and
people were apprehensive that freedom of education, such
as it then existed, would be interfered with. One Dis-
splend
senting minister, from a town in Lancashire, told me of of the representative of the commercial and industrial
2,000 children who had been educated by the voluntary wealth of London. The " loving cup" was duly sent
efforts of the people of that town. He feared that those round in honour of the long list of names which Mr.
schools which bad educated 2,000 persons would be Harker, the toast-master, duly enumerated in long
destroyed by the measure which had been intro- array, and as each toast was proclaimed, a flourish of
duced. These apprehensions, so natural, so wide- trumpets from either end of the hall called attention
spread, shared by every religious denomination alike to the titles of those whom the Lord Mayor of Lon-
-felt no less by the Church than by Dissenters, doct delighted to honour.
no less by Roman Catholics than by the British
Among the guests of the evening were—Lord and
and Foreign School Society—are so wide•spread, so
Lady Russell and Miss Lyster, Marquis of Lane-
deeply rooted, that we must be very cautious in any
nowne, Lord and Lady Palmerston,E and Countess
measure we introduce not to run counter to that feeling,
and likewise, and above all, not to stifle zeal and destroy Grey, Marquis of Breadalbane, Lady Grey, the
and crush voluntary efforts. Sir, that we may by vo- Danish Minister and lady, the French Ambassador
luntary efforts still do much, and arrive at some scheme and lady, Lady Mary Wood, the Netherlands Am-
by which education may be still further promoted, is bassador, Lord and Lady Langdale, Mr. and Mrs.
what I confidently hope.—(
Hear, hear.) I regret that Fox Maule, Lord and Lady Roseberry, Earl and
the present Bill should be such as I think it will be ha- Countess Zetland, Earl and Countess Arundel, the
possible for this House to consent to, and in saying that Attorney-General and lady, the Solicitor-General of
I cannot vote for the second reading of this Bill. I de- Ireland and Miss Hatchell, Sir George Strickland,
Clare that my desire for the general education of the
Sir George Staunton, Sir Charles Napier, &c. &c.
people of this country is not in the least diminished in
etestrusth or intensity.—(Cheers.) But Ido wish—a wish Messrs. Ring andßryrner, of Cornhill, who provided
once uttered by a Sovereign of this country, above all the materiel of the banquet, did not omit to furnish
things, that we should enable the people of this country shy of those ingredients which are usually called
to receive such instruction as to be able to read the Bible the delicacies of the season, and it may be added that
—(Hear, hear)—that they may receive it at an early the wines were excellent. In addition to such sources
age, when they are first beginning to receive lessons in of enjoyment, the band of the Coldsteram Guards
morality. I wish that the Holy Scriptures should not be gave their aid in the performance of several pieces of
reserved merely as a present to the pupils when they music.
leave school, but that they should be the object of their When we mention the names of Miss Birch, Miss
respect and reverence during their educational career.— Dolby, and Mr. Locket', with an efficient band of
(The Noble Lord resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.)
supporters under the superintendence of Mr. Hobbs,
Mr. HUME supported the second reading of the Bill.
we.
artment.
have said enough for the excellence of the vocal
No answer had been given to the statements of his
Hon. Friend who had introduced it, and he trusted the
dep
House would read it a second time. His Hon. Friend did On the removal of the cloth after grace, and the
not wish to interfere with the mode of education at usual flourish of trumpets from both extremities of
present in existence, but all that he wanted the hall,
was to give the means of education to all. The LORD MAYOR proposed the healths of " the
He regretted exceedingly the course that had Queen," of " Prince Albert," and of " the Prince of
been adopted by the Noble Lord at the head of the Go- wales and the rest of the Royal Family," in succes-
vernment, considering it inconsistent with the rule sion, which were received with the customary honours
hitherto adopted by the Noble Lord. and enthusiastic respect.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD opposed the second
The LORD MAYOR then proposed " the Army and
reading of the Bill. Navy." Althou h n ears
Mr. C. ANSTEY moved the adjournment of the de- g ma y yea had elased since the
bate to to•morrow fortnight. gallantry of either of the services had been displayed
Agreed to. in war, he was sure every one in these times of peace
The debate was then adjourned. would drink the toast with every satisfaction.
HIGHWAY'S (SOUTH WALES) BILL. Lord lIOWDEN returned thanks on behalf of the
Lord EMLYN moved the second reading of this Bill. army. He could not but feel proud at being called
After some observations from Mr. C. LEWIS, the on to respond to the compliment that had been paid
Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. to that portion of her Majesty's service who followed
COPYHOLD ENFRANCHISEMENT BILL. the profession of arms, and were serving the Crown
Mr. AGLIONBY moved the second reading of this
withunswerving fidelity in all quarters of the world.
Bill; but, on the suggestion of Sir George Grey, the
(near, hear.) He was assured that amid the ex-
second reading cf the Bill was postponed to the 16th
of Alay. citement of battle or the more noiseless dangers of
POOR RELIEF (CITIES AND TOWNS) BILL. disease, they could have no greater satisfaction than
The second reading of this Bill was also postponed. that of knowing that their countrymen tendered to
LIFE POLICY OF ASSURANCE (No. 2) BILL. them their thanks and approbation.—(Cheers.) He had
This Bill went through Committee pro forma. never had the satisfaction of enjoying the princely hoe,
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES. pitality of the chief magistrate of London in that hall
Sir J. DUCKWORTH obtained leave to bring in a without thinking how nearly connected were military
Bill to alter and amend a law relating to weights and and civil duties. The former preserved to the latter
measures. the full ability to extend the art of war and peace.
Mr. TWISDEN HODGES obtained leave to bring
They procured for commerce the enjoyment of her
in a Bill for repealing so much of the Act of the fifth
riegaLefh!s_,ul course without aggression or disturbance.
while they enabled her to march on her
and sixth year of his late Majesty King William IV.,
as relates to the revision of the burgess list in corporate p
boroughs in England and Wales, and for making more And, on the other hand, the achievements of military
effectual provision for that purpose. courage could avail but little, if unsupported by the
The other orders of the day were then disposed of peaceful but solid glories of commercial honour. Such
and the House adjourned. were the means by which the reputation of the Bri-
tish merchant had been rendered synonymous with
all that was known of hononr and integrity. After
two years of continental convulsions and of European
war, the happy consummation of our peaceful career
could not be attributed to any fortuitous concourse of
counsel, but to that continuity of purpose which sprung
from wise and well-founded principle. He thought
they owed great gratitude of her Majesty's Ministers
for the peaceful condition of this country, and for the
prosperity which she so largely enjoyed ; and, with
that feeling, he begged to return to the distinguished
assemblage before him his hearty thanks for the
honour done to the British army, identified as it was
with the welfare of the British people.— (Cheers.)
Sir C. NAPIER, in the absence c f some one better
qualified than himself to return thanks for the navy,
telt that the duty devolved upon him to say how
deeply the honour which had been done that branch
of the service in drinking their health was felt by
him, and would be felt by the navy. Connected as
he had been with that service for fifty years, during
no small portion of which time he had served abroad,
in various parts of the world, it was not at all won-
derful to him that in that great city the health of the
navy was always received with the loudest applause.
The city of London was the great resort of the com-
merce and iedustry of the country, and he was sure
they would feel that, if it had not been fur the British
navy, and for the protection afforded by our fleet, they
could not have carried on, in the same safe manner,
trade and commerce with all the quarters of the
globe.—(Cheers.) 'With respect to the recent mea-
tures which had been proposed for the regulation of
our navy and marine power, he hoped he might be
allowed to express an opinion, that it would greatly
add to the energy of our navy, and that he trusted
the energy and vigour of our marine would enable
them to compete with all the nations of the earth. At
this moment he might say their navy was engaged,
not only with the known but the unknown parts of
the earth. At this moment there were gallant officers
and their crews struggling to discover a passage
between the Northern Polo and the uninhabitable
land that surrounded it. A. private enterprise, too,
had been brought to bear upon that object; and
Americo, in the most noble manner, had sent out to
assist those whose lives were at stake in that service.
Ile hoped it would not be long ere they would see
their gallant brethren restored to them.—(Cheers.)
The improvement of the mercantile marine which
was contemplated by the Bill of the Government
would be of the greatest importance to the country.
He thanked them for it, and trusted it would give the
service a greater supply of men—that it would tend
to the promotion of greater discipline, and greatly
improve the captains and officers of merchant ships,
and would maintain sobriety and good conduct in the
service.—(Cheers.) In making these remarks in the
presence of the First Minister of the Crown, he hoped
he might not be accused of indiscretion, and that the
Noble Lord and those whom he addressed would ac-
quit him of any such error in the observations he
bad made to them.—(Cheers.)
The LORD MAYOR proposed " The health of the
clergy of the United Kingdom, and with it the health
of the Dean of St. Paul's.
The DEAN of ST. PAUL'S, in returning thanks,
said that so long as the Church' lived in the regard and
attachment of the intelligent portion of the commu-
nity, of which the chief magistrate of the metropolis
might be regarded as the exponent, he felt confident
she would live in the support of the people, while
she maintained that moderate, tolerant, and com-
prehensive character by which, longer than any
other Christian church, she had been distinguished.
That character which during two centuries of fierce
polemical contest, and one century of peace, she had
unswervingly maintained, he had no apprehension of
her fall, however the thunder might roll around her,
and clouds charged with the electricity of dissension
seemed to threaten her. He felt as little anxiety for
her as he did, in similar circumstances in the physical
world, for that most magnificent of Protestant cathe-
drals which arose in the midst of the great metropolis,
and over which he had lately had the honour of being
called to preside. lie trusted, so long as he filled
that post, and lived among the citizens of London,
no conduct of his would impair the respect and at-
tachment through which the Church lived, and on
which hung her influence and usefulness.—(Cheers.)
The LORD MAYOR said he was sure the next toast
was one which would afford the greatest satisfaction
to every one present. He gave them " the Healths
of her Majesty's Ministers," and coupled with it
"the Health of Lord John Russell."
Lord J. Russeee—l rise to return you all our
most grateful thanks for the honour you have clone
us, and those of her Majesty's Ministers present, in
drinking our health ; and, in the first place, I deeply
regret to say that my right Hon. Friend the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and the President of the
Board of Control, are unable to attend your hospitable
board this evening. In receiving the hospitality of
the city of London, I can never forget the mighty
changes that have taken place with which this city
has been so intimately connected—connected too with
ancient times and early beginnings—without feeling
that we are now, in modern times, beholding growing
up around us the present state of society, and this
vast city, affording room for human growth and civi-
lisation. lam happy to perceive that you continue

//
s hose efforts of coomerce which, while they add to the
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bonds
dare of this. country, will tend to unite in the
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it ..i.
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.• tt ,
. 4:
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__ of amity all other nations, and bind in one feel-
ing the general influence of mankind. My Lords and
_ -- gentlemen, you have done us the honour of drinking
e". ' - ''' • , e,.... . our healths as 'persons intrusted with the important
- -- -- 74 e office of advising the Sovereign, and directing the go-
vernment of the country. During the time we have
had the honour of holding cffice there have been times
of difficulty, times of famine, times of distress. •
-q SD. We hare had a scarcity of some kind of food, amount-
ing in one part of the empire to actual famine. We
have had to contend with great distress in this me-
tropolis, as in other large towns ; we have had to
contend with times of rebellion, and with attempts
at the separation of the united kingdom. It would
not be proper for me in this place if I were to ven-
ture into political topics, or in any way to talk of the
political distinctions which exist in this country ; but
this I will venture to say, that we have not been
despondent in those times ; that we have not quailed
before the efforts of our enemies in any extremity,
and that in times of commercial distress we gave at
least our best attention and our best labour to restore
commercial prosperty. I can answer f,:r the spirit
which has animated us in those difficulties, and I
trust it was not unworthy of Englishmen. I trust it
was not unworthy of their great country, whose
affairs we have the honour to direct.—(Cheers.) Let
me assure you that we shall endeavour to conduct .
those affairs for the future in the same spirit—that
we shall consider the institutions cf the country are
never so safe, are never so honoured, as when
they receive all the amendments of which, from
time to time, they are capable—that they will
never throw aside anything that is useful merely
because it is ancient—that they will never reject .'
anything that is strange merely because it is new.—
(Cheers.) It is by combining that reverence for
antiquity, by promoting that respect for the principles
on which our ancestors have founded our institutions,
and at the same time adapting them to the present
age—it is by this combination of respect for antiquity
and regard for all modern improvements, that the
freedom and happiness of this kingdom can be secured.
—(Cheers.) I. am happy to observe that there is
again near me the. Ambassador from France, whom,
on a former occasion, I heard so well say, that his
presence among us was a ,token of intimate political
union between the two countries. May it long con-
tinue ! I believe that the union and intimate
alliance of two such countries—countries which have
anciently proved their prowess in arms so well that
they need not be daunted by any foe who may wish
to oppose them, and who, in later days, have, in
literature and civilization, proved that they could do .
all which could promote the one or the other—the
union, / say, of two such countries can do nothing '
but promote the peace of the world and the welfare of
mankind.—(Loud cheers.)
The LORD MAYOR said, that on an occasion when
they were at peace with all the world, it was with the
greatest satisfaction he rose to propose " the Health
of the Foreign Ministers," and to couple with them
" the health of the French Ambassador.'
The FRENCH AMBASSADOR—My Lord Mayor, my
Lady Mayoress, I beg leave to thank you, in the
name of my colleagues and of myself, for the honour
you have done us in drinking our health. I begin to .
be somewhat familiar with City legends. 'remember
having read in one of your quaint chronicles some
strange accounts of the military duties which were
formerly imposed on the members of your corpora-
tion. At one time it is " that such of you as are
well skilled shall be got ready, and that good, apt,
and able persons of quality be armed with corslets,
pikes, and bills, and dressed in yellow cloth, to fight
with Flanders." At another time it is that you aro
to send forth ships to annoy the King of Spain.
Again, you are summoned to send forth, pinnaces for
the suppressing of the Dunkirkers. When on such
occasions the brave citizens of London were assetn-
bled, with what a burst of patriotic warmth they
must have responded to the royal summons I If Gog
and Magog could now but re-echo the words they
hare heard uttered against offending foreigners, what
dreadful things we should hear at this moment I Now,
thank God, you appear in this splendid hall, not to
provide means to suppress or annoy your neighbours,
but to greet them with a gracious and hearty wel-
ceme. At the Mansion-house not a bitter drop is to
be found in the loving cup, and with the sincerest
gratitude we acknowledge the cordial reception you
have given us, and the honour you have bestowed
upon us in drinking our healths.—(Loud cheers.)
The LORD MAYOR then proposed " the health of
Earl Grey and the House of Lords."
Earl GREY, in thanking them for the honour they
had done him and the members of the House to which
he belonged, said that he could not reflect upon such
a tribute of respect without remembering the long
series of years during which the city of London and
the Howe of Lords had occupied a conspicuous place
in the institutions of the country. Both were ancient
corporations. The House of Lords dated its origin
front the earliest days of our history : and, while cen-
turies had rolled away, and amid all the changes that
those centuries brought forth, the present House of
Lords and the present corporation of London had
preserved unbroken, and from generation to ge-
neration, that chain of succession which united
the present to their past existence. He felt
there was use in allowing their minds to
dwell on such recollections of the past, but
while they were bound to acknowledge with grati-
tude that it was to the favour of a gracious and over-
ruling Providence they owed the blessings enjoyed
by this kingdom longer than by any other nation—
the blessings of universal peace and of well-directed
liberty,—whilst they humbly acknowledged, among
secondary comes, as a result from those causes, the
influence of their institutions, they might be permitted
to recognise the disposition which had been so long
felt among Englishmen, to look back upon the past
with reverence. It was that disposition which led
them, when their institutions wanted improvement,
not to lay them wholly aside ; and he believed it was
to that disposition they owed the stability of govern-
ment which had furnished them with so many
elements of success.—(Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON rose to return thanks for the
House of Commons—l am sure I main deeply sensible
of the great honour that you have done me in
coupling my name with the compliment you have
paid to one of the noblest assemblies of Englishmen—
the Commons House of Parliament. It is indeed
natural that when we are assembled in this hall you •
should not forget, among your ancient institutions,
and in the kind recollection of your various public
bodies, the house of Commons, for between that
House and the city of London there are those natural
links of connexion which unite the principles of com-
merce with the principles of political liberty ; for
while the city of London is the great representative
of commercial principles, so the House of Commons is
the peculiar guardian of the constitutional liberties of
the country. Liberty and commerce go hand-in-
hand, and whichever happens to take the lead is sure
to be followed by its companion. While commerce
tpoa vceosmthet
commerce
y for i
ts proper constitutional
security
lai bnedr ty, s
t.
bliberty;
cgoi vine
-s
merce turns the mind of man to consider how the
natural freedom of action and the intelligence of in-
tellect could be made most valuable to mankind ; and
constitutional freedom gives to the commercial man
that liberty of action without which commercial prin-
ciples can never be fully developed. It is on this
account that we have seen that wherever political
is fully developed, no matter how confined the
liberty is
how uncongenial the soil or unpromising
the climate, we see commerce taking root, springing
into youth or attaining to its full development, and
that we have some small states, and even individual
cities, rise to absolute wealth and political dominance,
which never have been attained to by greater and
more mighty empires. Whatever be the natural ad-
vantages which may have been bestowed upon this
happy country—whatever the courage and skill of
your seamen—whatever the intelligence and enter-
prise of your merchants,—whatever may be the safety
or facilities of your ports,—and whatever the benefits
of your insular position, you never could have enjoyed
this proud pre-eminence in commercial prosperity in
which you stand unrivalled, if you had not enjoyed
the happy institutions which have been handed down
to us by our ancestors. But commerce has higher
aims aid higher views than the mere accumulation
of wealth. It contributes to the happiness of
all mankind, by enabling the different nations of
the earth to satisfy their wants by the productions
of the most distant portions of the globe. Commerce
tends to allay these animosities which exist among
the different portions of mankind. While making,
them dependent on and better acquainted with each
other, commerce tends to secure the peace of the
world, and I may venture, without any exaggera-
tion, to say, that this link of amity, whether i
bot
fbe of -
seNa'enstronl belet on dt
of
hoef
the,
gold or of silver, or o.f_scjolirtt:o
munoiroenf,ratogilaensiumbastte u
substance
ins
friendship, than the strongest obligations of treaties
—(Loud cheers)—and therefore I may say the main-
tainers of those great principles, while pursuing their
nor ipeaceful rgelations
own honourable functions, and acquiring wealth for
themselves and their country, have deserved, and still
gst the greatest bene-
dfth
factorsof
ee se,,, )
fat o
ncmdo
abmnkme toassureid I
are
regardedobns a l w
sensible, with feelings
always bega rn obto return you my best
you that the Members of the
of peculiar obligation, of the honour you do them
when you recollect them in the ball of this great city.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL returned thanks in a
short and appropriate speech, for the bar of England.
Sir G. GREY proposed " The health of the Lord
Mayor," and in doing so observed, that he had no
doubt the cooperation and assistance which he bad
received from the Chief Magistrate of the city of
London on all occasions of difficulty or danger would .
no doubt be afforded by the gentleman who so nobly
entertained them that evening, should any occasion
unhappily arise. He was rejoiced to think, however,
The Loin MAXOA thanked the convexly fur the
that such was not likely to be the case.--(Cheete,)

. V r,l •