The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-20 00:00:00

some future time a double chamber might not be expe-
dient, tut be advocated a single chamber, because the
sentiments of the colonists on Volt point had been so un-
equivocally expressed. The last dist. etch feom Gover-
nor Young stated one remarkable fact which
dieentitled the resolutions cf the Executive Council
to any *eight whatever. The fourth paragraph
in the dispatch would fully bear cut that assertion.
Governor Denison's opinion bad been too much
relied on—for, in 1848, be had given an opinion
which was adverse to the opinion he gave in 1849. The
Hon. Member for Southwark considered that the proviso
requiring the signification c f her Majesty 's pleasure to
any enactment was conclusive in favour of his views.
But the people of the colony did not so regard it, for he
found in the Adelaide Times of the lit of October, 1849
—a paper which was opposed to Government, and which
demanded the most extensive powers for the people—he
found in that organ of the public opinion of the colony a
statement, after mentioning that the Bill, besides giving
the power of amending the repreeeetatior, provided for
making any other amendment that experience could
suggest; that it the Bill were carried out they
should be quite content with it, notwithstanding
the stipulation that those amendmente, in order to
their becoming valiti, should be submitted to her
Majesty's p 1 aoure and to Parliament. Was it
then open to the Hon. Member for Southwark to say
that the clause was powerless to giie the colonists what
they desired ? The object of the Bill was not to es-
tablish a permanent single chamber instead of a double
one. On the contrary, it empowered the colonists to
establish two chamfers if they choose ; and though
the lion. Gentleman had contended that if the Bill were
asscd a double chamber would ne ve r be et teblished, he
must take the liberty of thinking otherwise should the
colonists see fit to mike the change. He raw nothing
to prevent their bringing the force of the public opinion
of the colonists to bear upon their representatives so as
to effect that a:teration whenever they choose. Ile
cautioned the House against adopting any suggestion
coming from the Colonial Reform Association, not one
of whose members concurred in opinion upon any one sub-
ject but that of colonial reform, and even on the nature of
that reform they were not agreed, for the Hon. Member
fur Midburst (Mr. Walpole) proposed that ore o:
the two chambers should consist of members nominated
by the Crown. The Hen. Member for Southwark pro-
posed two elective chambers, while the Hon. Member
for St,ffordahire (Mr. Adderley) had some other pro-
ject; besides, notwithstanding the assertion of the Lion.
and Learned Member fur Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck), he
contended that the Bowe had not sufficient information
to enable them to decide upon a question of such impor-
tance as the adoption of a double chamber.
Mr. DISRAELI understood they were in Commit
tee on the sixth clause of the Bill, and that the
point in discussion was, whether in the projected con-
stitution for the Australian colonies there should be
one or tyro chambers. That, Le apprehended,
was the subject for consideration, and there -
fore, though the Henourable Gentleman who had just
spoken had told them that that was not the question
only, but that in the Bill there were powers which the
colonists might avail themselves of to have a second
house if they nought it necessary, he (Mr. Disraeli)
apprehended that those were considerations which ought
net to affect their vote that night.—(fleas,hear.) The
consideration of the sixth clause really involved the
question whether they were that night to decide if this
new colonial constitution should possess one or two
chambers, nor were the elements of the composition of
either one chamber or the other at all at issue at that
moment. Those were considerations which were apart
from the sixth clause, he thought; end not only that it
was quite us well that the question should be divested of
those other considerations, but that the question in itself
was sufficiently grave. He hardly knew any one
more difficult to decide upon, or any occasion on
which the responsibility of a vote should be felt
more sensibly by a Member of that House. The
question, however, was not new to the House. Of
late years it had been necessarily brought before the
consideration of every. Member. He thought it was not
four years ago since there had been a change of govern-
mew, and a new government was founded upon other
principles—one of which was colonial rtfurm. In a
question so extremely difficult as the construction of a
political constitution for distant colonies, gentlemen na-
turally looked with great expectation and .respect to the
existing government of the day to be their " guides, phi-
losophers, and friends."— (Hear.) The Government
were not long in existence when they gave to the House
an inkling of the policy which they thought ought to
be bursued stilt respect to the question now under con-
aideration. A constitution for a distant colony being
contiguous to that the constitution for which was now
under discussion, was presented to the House, and they
had an opportuuity of taking the opinion of the Govern-
ment, especially those members of it who were known as
colonial reformers, upon the subject ; and on that first
subject e f a constitution for a distant colony, three years
and a half ago, the Government were ofopinion that there
should be two chambers. Some time afterwards another
project of a colonial constitution—a constitution,
indeed, for one of those very colonies—a colony cf still
greater importance than any he had adverted to, and
after still more mature reflection, after having been in
office some little time, and after having profited by their
former experience arid previous experiments, the Go-
vernment again produced a project of constitution which
again included this plan of two chambers.—(Hear.) So
far, then, the Government, during their still somewhat
brief career, had offered to the House renewed instance s
of their approbation of the principle. But a greet
change occurred after that latter instance in the policy
of the Government. In their projects the Government
had not been fortunate; both of them had been rejected
by the populations to whose necessities they had
been addressee),, and a very considerable change took
place in the manner in which the Government pre-
pared their future operations. And he was rathe r
surprised the llouse bad not dwelt more in detail,
and with more interest, upon this very remarkable
character, Almost unprecedented in recent Parliamentary
history, of the mode of proceeding adopted with respect
to those very communities. There suddenly was a de-
lea.ion of the duties of the Secretary of State for the
Colonies to the Comminee of the Privy Council—a very
remarkable circumstance, because, after a Government
distinguished by the liberality c f its me mbers, and re-
markable for the very great reputation of the individual
who presided over the colonies—had taken office—aft r
great promises they had held out to the country of the
great salutary changes in our colonial system, it was very
remarkable that the Secretary of Sate for the Colonial
Department should announce that he was incapable of
forming an opinion upon all those subjects which were
considered as the very subjects, the ability to form an
opinion on which formed the qualification of a man to be
Seere tary of State for the Colonies.—(Hear, hear.) They
were told that those were subjects of great difficulty—
viz , that the construction of the system and the settle-
ment of the principles on which emigration should be
conducted, according to which the wa to lands should be
sold, and on which the political constitution of the colo-
nies should be settled—that those were subjects of such
extreme difficulty that the Secretary of State found it
necessary to deli gate the performance of his duties, and
the decision of those important points to a Committee
of the Privy Council. lie would bare thought, that if
a man was not capable of incurring the responsibility
of advising his Sovereign in Council as to the decision
to adopt on those subject.—if, as a member of the Ca-
binet, he was not prepared on his own responsibility to
decide on the matter of colonial government, when points
so very important, and which had been so long discussed,
and which had SO occupied the attention of all statesmen
connected with the colonies, as the sale of waste lands,
the conduct of emigration, and the principles on
which political constitutions were to be offered to the
colonies—he should have said that such a man was
the last person who should have been ambitious of
being Secretary of State fur the Colonies.—(Hear.)
The Noble Lord said " Hear." He was glad he
had condescended to attend to his observations. The
Noble Lord was a great constitutional scholar, and per-
haps he would explain that difficulty. Well, then, the
Performance of the duties of Secretary of State for the
Colonies was delegated to the Committee of the Privy
Council. It was they who were to decide on the sub-
ject. They knew who the members of that council
were, for they had their signatures to a document.
One of them was the nobleman who now filled the
office of Lord Chief Justice of England. He believed
all felt that the manner in which that Noble and
Learned Lord would discharge the arduous duties of
that high office would make him go down to
posterity with a reputation as eminent as that cf any
of his predecessors.—(Hear; hear.) Lord Campbell
was then Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and
for that Noble. and Learned Lord be had very great re-
spect, but he wanted to know why should not the Secre-
tary of State for the Colonies be responsible fur the per-
formance of his duties in treat capacity, and not the
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster; the second mem-
ber of the Committee e f Privy Council was the Right
lion. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade
(Mr. Lebouchere). He had no doubt that the Right
Hon. Gentleman had every qualification to be Colonial
Minister—he had very greatly distinguished himself as
Under-Secretary for the Colonies—but, if he was to be
Colonial Minister, he (Mr. D.) preferred he should be
responsible for the administration c f the colonies, and
not another person, who born the title c f the office
and left to him the performance of its func-
tions. But the House had every security in Lord
Campbell and the President of the Board of
Trade—for these two members of the Committee of
Privy Council were Members of Parliament. They
could, in the House of Lords or the House of Commons,
bold them responsible for the advice which they gave to
the Sovereign, however much they might disapprove of
the system on which their advice on such subjects had
been solicited. But there was a third member of the
Committee of Privy Council on whom the fulfilment of
the duties pertaining to the office of Colonial Secretary
was devolved—a gentler an who bore the name of Sir
Edward Ryan. He was not a Member of the House of
Commons, he was not in the House of Lords. How,
the ns, was the responsibility of the Minister in the person
of Sir Edward Ryan to be secured? If he wanted to
know where tl at gentleman was, to secure his re sponsi
bility, he must send for the re d book, and,
if he lived in a hotel, the responsibility of the
Minister in his person was not to be fixed. Yet it was
upon his advice thet the Ministers who, for a very con-
sidersble period, had announced to the Ilcuse their ad-
hesion to the principle of two chambers, had b en
drawing up systems of le giolature according t ) that
principle, passing
them in that House, and sending them
out to the colonies—it was upon the advice of that gen-
tleman, and of the Commit'ee of Privy Council, of which
he was a member, and to whom the fulfilment of the du-
ties of Secretary of State for the Colonies had been del, -
gated, in consequence of that funet'onary's previous
failure and pure incapacity to fulfil the duties of his
office—that Ministers now suddenly called on them to
adopt this new project of a single chamber. Let him
first call the attention of the House is the most im-

had been the basis of the whole policy ef. the Govern-
ment—nsmely, the report cf those Right Hon. Lords of
tie Committee of Council, that report being dated the
Ist of April, 1849. Perhaps the Noble Lord would tell
him that there was nothing unconstitutional in submit-
ting a great public question to the consideration of the
Privy Council of Trade and Plantations. But it should
be remembered that the Lords of that Council were
i'seembers of Parliament. In the present instance the
vice cf the old system c f governing this country by coun-
cillors, with whom the people were not acquainted, had
been adopted and revived by her Majesty's present Mi-
nisters. Now, let the House hear what had been the lan-
guage employed by the Committee of Privy Council on
that very question of a single or a double chamber.—
(The Hon. Gentleman here read an extract from the report
of the Committee to the effect that it was in their opinion
desirable that the political institutions of the British
colonies should be brought into the nearest possible
analogy to the constitution of the United Kingdom;
and that the general practice had been to grant double
chambers to our colonies; but they added that circum-
stances of a peculiar chat aster had reluctantly c mpellsd
them to recommend a departure from that practice in
the present instance, and the appointment of only a
single house of legislation.) New it appeared that the
only reason which had induced the Committee to offer
that advice was the state if public feeling in New
South \Vales upon the subject The Honourable and
e•ned Gentleman the Member for Athlone (Mr.
Keogh) had triumphantly arpeuled to a great public
meeting held at Sydney, in which the idea cf a
second c hember had been universally coudemr ed.
But be (Mr. Disrse:i) wished to know what sort
f a second chamber it was that had be en so denounced.
—(hear, hear.) He wanted to know whether it had
been put to the inhabitants of Sydney or to the colonists
of New South Wales genet ally that the second chamber
was to be the chamber indicated by the Hon. Baronet
the Member for Sotithwailr.—(Hear, hear.) Ue-
doubtedly if the inhabitants of Sydney were asked whe-
ther or not they were in favour of the establishment of a
second chamber choke lull of the nominees of the Go-
verment, he should not be surprised if they were to re-
ject the offer with derision and indignation. He had said
that the duties of the Secretary of State had been dale
gated to the Committee cf tEe Privy Council; and the
Noble Lord had appeared to doubt the accuracy of that
st itement.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that neither the question of
emigration nor the question of the waste lands had been
reserved for that Committee.
Mr. DISRAELI said he found that among the mat
ters referred to, upon which the Committee had offered
their opinions, were the division of the colonies, the es-
tablishtte nt of municipal councils, the levying of district
rates, the management of waste lands, the details of the
civil list, the duties on customs, and the appropriation of
the revenue derived from the sale of land. With all
these questions he found that the Committee had dealt,
'notwithstanding the statement of the Noble Lord that
some, at least, e f those questions had not been submitted
fur their consideration. The Ce mmittee in the course
of their report alleged that until the commencement of
the nineteenth century the almost uniform wage had
been to establish kcal legislatures consisting e f three
estates—a government nominated by the Sovereign, a
council nominatei by the Sovereeign, and an atsembly
elected by the people. Now, he had never before heard
that her Majesty was one of the estates of the realm.
lie had always understood that the three estates
of the realm consisted of certain classes of subjects
invested with political privileges. There were
three estates of the realm in England—the
estate of the Lords spiritual, the estate of the Lords
temporal, and the estate of the Commons; but to say that
the Queen was an estate of the realm was to say that she
formed a class of her own subjects. Yet those a ore the
Gentlemen to decide on the question of a single or a
double chamber.—(Hear.) Nor was that a mete slip of
the pen, for he found that in another and a most impor-
tant portion of the document the same statement was re-
peated. Those Gentlemen, therefore, who were drawing
up con: titutions to be sent out to the Antipodes were ab-
solutely quite ignorant of what was an estate of the
realm, and classed the governor of a colony as such an
estate.—(hear.) He fouled that within a very brief
period her Majesty's Ministers had been advocates of a
double chamber in two cases in which they mutt have
pondered long over the measures which they had intro-
duced—reessures which at great risk and trouble
they had sent on the longest and the most fruitless
voy ages that had ever awaited any legislative enter-
prise. In the middle of the period of four eventful years,
during which her Majesty's present advisers had be en in
office, they fund the Secretary of State for the Colonies
—that hot colonial re former, whether from a too sensitive
feeling of his failures, or the upbraiding remonstrances
of his colleagues—they found him abdicating his
functions and appointing a Committee to fulfil his duties;
and the result of the labours of the Committe a was to
produce a change of opinion on the part of her Majesty's
Government on the vital principle which the House was
thee' discussing. Now, it appeared to him that the House
might safely come to the conclusion that her Majesty's
Ministers were not the best and most infallible guides
whom they could follow on that subject. What did the
Government mean to do? Did they mean to lay it down
as a principle of their conduct that they should act
exactly in accordance with the general feeling of the
present inhabitants of the colony? One would almost
inter that from some of the speeches they had heard
upon the subject—from the eagerness with which the
Noble Lord had referred to that heaven-sent joureal
which happened to have fallen into his hands,' one
would suppose that ;a public nice ting at a coffee-
e weuld be sufficient to de terming the course
which the Government would pursue upon that ques-
tion. He (Mr. Dist sell) wished it to be understood that
he was not recoaimend.ng any course in total defiance
of the feelings of the people of the colony. Ile thought
those fe clings should be consulted, and that the of eirs
f so distant a settlement should be approached in a
conciliatory spirit. But he could not coincide in tie
opinion tl at they ought to decide that question solely iu
reteience to the feelings of the colonists at the present
u oment, even if they could ascertain what those feelings
were. The Hue. Gentleman the Member for Dundalk
(Mr. M'Cullagh) said that in dealing with that
question, they ougt.t not to anticipate the future. But
in his (Mr. DisraeliV) op;nion, if they were ever to
anticipate the future it was when • they were
legislating for a colony.— (Hear, hear). Fur , his
part, he should give his vote in favour of the prin-
ciple of anticipation ; he should give his vote in favour
of the principle of two chambers ; and he wished to
guard himself against being supposed to commit him-
self to the support of any certain form of second cham-
ber. He wished to avoid any unnecessary elements of
controversy upon that occasion. He aas in favour of a
second chamber, because he thought that, under all cir-
cumstances, it gave stability to a state. He denied that
a second chamber was hostile to popular liberty., It
might be hostile to popular passions, aid yet be the best
security for popular liberty. He looked upon it as a re-
presentation of the conservative principle in its purest
elements. lie believei that its tendency would be to
secure society in the colony, to improve it, and to save
it from the gusts of popular passion and caprice. He
felt assured that if the question was properly put to
the communities of Australia, whether they would have
two chambers— provided alway a the second chamber was
not to be filled with Government nominees—their deci-
sion would be universal and unanimous in favour of such
an arrangement. lie felt persuaded that when the 'de-
bates in that House upon the subject should have be-
come known, and when the public in the colony should
have become enlightened upon the point, the Noble
through
o uhg r
oh w thatve however,
Lord would find it impossible to carry his measure into
house.
operation,Thhoo Noble however he
Lord
dht
mpaigssht o it
care for that, and O. e present would not be
the first constitution re turned into his banes.
But he wished the Noble Lord to profit by experience,
and to prosper for the future in his legislative enter-
prises. He should have thought that after what hal
occurred during the last Rime or four years the Noble
Lord would nut have come to the House upon that
occasion without having a clear conception upon this
point—were the inhabitants of those colonies clearly
aware of what was meant by two chambers? The in-
habitants of Sydney were mistaken if they supposed
that those who advocated a second chamber were advo-
cating a second chamber composed merely of Govern-
ment nominees. That was not the feeling of the House
of Commons or cf the country upon the subject:—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Dundalk had told them that it was better to support the
Government Bill than to legislate on mere theory. But
was the opinion of the Governor of Van Diensen's Land
a mere theory ? Was the opinion of the Governor
of South Australia a mere theory ? Was the opinion
of the Governor of New South Wales itself a mere theory?
It was the duty of the Government when they came
forward with a new project of that description, which
they recommended upon an assumed acquaintance with
the state of public optnion in these colonies—it was their
duty to make sure that they had become accurately ac-
quainted with that opinion. It appeared to him, from all
that he had heard or read upon that subject, that the
Government ware not well informed with respect to it.
Nay, more, the Secretary of State had told them a fen
hours before that he was lamentably ignoraht upon the
subject. But why should they legislate under such ig-
norance? What he ventured to tecommend the Noble
Lend to do, was to inform himself better upon that im-
portant topic, and until he should have obtained that in-
formation, to delay his legislation.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAW ES said he felt it absolutely necessary to
nctice a few of the statements which had fallen from the
lion. Gentleman who had just addressed the House. The
Hon. Gentlemen had alluded to the Committee of the
Privy Council appointed to consider various colonial
questions, and had contended that the Secretary of State,
by consenting to that appointment, had altegether aban-
doned his responsibility. But there was no complaint
which he (Mr. Hawes) had heard more frequently put
forward in that House and elsewhere than that the Se-
cretary of State had hitherto monopolised our colonial
goverume t t ; and he could not therefore understated
the objection of the Honourable Gentleman ,to the
appointment of the Committee which had inquired into
the policy which it was at present advisable to pursue
towards our colonies. Let it bo remembered that
the Secretary for the Colonies had only consult d ti e
Committee for their advice, and that be held himself re-
sponsible for any course which he might a:terwarels

pursue upon the subject. But how had that Commi tee
been constituted ? The flori. Gentleman had himself

bore testimony to the eminent ability of Lord Campbell,

one member Committee ; illen there was Sir F.

Ryan, a Privy Councillor, and formerly Chief Justice of
Bengal ; and there was also Sir G. Sevens, who l ad
long been distinguished at the Colonial-office for bis
knowledge and ability. The lion. Gentleman had also
said that it was in consequence of the report of the
Committe e that the Government had abandoned
the principle of two chambers. Again, the
Honourable Member was mis•aken. In 1842 Lord
Stanley introduced a Bill, constituting a single chamber,
which went through both Houses without a division,.and
even without an observation, except one of congratula-

portant doetaneniCiallintheilposaession upon that
subject, the one which they had last received, and which

SATURDAY
_EVEN LNG, APRIL 20, 1850.

tion. So much for the ground laid by the Hon. Gentle-
man f.r the rejection of the Bill. But the Hon. Gentle.
wan said the Government were ignorant—that Lord
Grey had avowed his ignorance—and that they had re-
commended two chambers previously. The Government
had certainly changed their opinion, but it was because
ties colonists had expressed their satisfaction with the
constitution of 1842, and prayed his Noble Friend at
the head of the Col; nial-etfice not to alter it. Was
there any thing to Le ashamed cf in that ? On the
contrary, there was much to be honoured. The Bill
wood on the broad principle that it was founded on a
knowledge cf the Opinions and feelings of the colonists.
Would asiy one pretend it was opposed to the wishes
of the p e,rple of New South Wales? It was, in fact, only
the exiting constitution of that colony. That it was
not opposed to the wishes of the colonists of Victoria
asis proved by the resolutions he (Mr. Hawes) held in
his hard, wherein the people of that colony prayed for
a council composed of 18 elected rr embers and 9 mem-
bers appointed by the Crown. It was opposed that
all four color ins should have constitutions comprehend-
ing two legislative bodies ; hut the answer to this was,
that Nov South Wales an Victoria were content with
the constitutions they had, and desired no change.
Were Van Diemen's Land and New South Wales satis-
fied? The pe ,ple c f those colonies had nut expressed
their opinion on tae subject of two chambers.
The Governor of Van Diemen's Land was certainly
opposed to a single chamber, but he said be hal no pre-
cise weans c f knowing the sentiments of the color ial
community, and then give his own opinion ; but it any
decision could be arrii el at from the usual chancels of
information, it winli appear that the colonists only de
sired a single elective chamber, and not two bodies.
The Honourable Member fur Sheffield said that it was
the duty of Parliament to frame the best constitution in
its power for the co:onies ; but he (Mr. Hawes) unpin-
ideally denir d that proposition. Ile stood on a broad
principle. If a constitution was to be framed, it
should be framed, in his opinion, in conformity with
the wishes of the colonists, and not in pursuance of
the views of any individual Member of that House.
That was the cause of the duration of the Ameri-
can Coastitution— all of whom had begun with a single
chamber, and established a second us a necessity of their
conformation, in the coarse of time. It would be the
same with the celoray of New South Wales in due pro-
cess. With reference to the objections raised on the
operation of the 35. h clause, he (Mr. Hawes) would
clearly state that the policy of the Government, in con-
ferring power upon the colonists, was to permit them
honestly to exercise that power for the purpose of ame-
liorating their constitution. Hitherto the Crown had
been constantly opposed to the colonial constitutions,
but now powers of haat self-government were conferred
on Australia, which were intended should be exercised.
Reference was made to Lord Grey's dispatch of 1847,
proposing two chambers for New South \Vales, but the
course adopted by his Noble Friend was to
adopt that constitution which the colonists were
attached to, and give them the means of im-
proving it. Was that a policy to be condemned as
it had been by the Pon. Baronet and the Hon.
Member for Buckinghamshire? In framing a Bill such
as that under discussion, the colonies were obtaining
that expansive form of government which was beat
adapted for their present state, as well as for their future
extension. If, however, the amendment proposed were
adopted, a delay would take place, which would cause
great discontent, and mate. ially impede the application
of the measure on the colony. He (Mr. Hawes) there-
fore entreated the House to conciliate the colonists by
waiving its right to legislate fir them, and by deference
to their feelings aid opinions to lay the foundation of a
work which they would look up to with pride and satis-
faction as the production of their own hands.—(Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI explained. He had omitted the
name of Sir J. Stephen, because he had not signed the
report of the Committee of the Privy Council. As to
Sir Edward Ryan, who the Lion. Gentleman said was a
chief justice, all he (Mr. Disraeli) could say was, that he
was sorry that two chief justices should have to decide
upon the colonial policy of this country.
Mr. SCOTT then rose, amidst loud cries for a divi-
sion. He was understood, in the confusion, to say the
majority of the colonists had expressed themselves
against the plan of a single chamber, and in favour cf a
double chamber. Recent accounts showed that it was
condemned at a public meeting in Hobart Town, Van
Diemen's Land; while at two public meetings held at
Port Philip and Sydney, no resolution was come to on
the question, though the speeches were all against it.
Silence gave consent. If there was one duty more
than another iecumbe nt upon the governor of any of our
colonies, it was that he should particularly define such
a form of government as they ought to enjoy.—(Loud
cries of "Divide.")
Mr. MO WATT said the present Bill was brought
forward in such a fair spirit, and was really such a de-
sirable measure, that he was unwilling to oppose it. The
Hon, Member for Athlone had dressed the Bill up in
such colours, that he felt it to be his duty as a colonist
to say half a dozen words upon the subject. His prin-
cipal objection to the Bill was, that the colonists were
not permitted in future to legislate for themselves as he
thought they would wish. By the dispatch received from
Sir W. Denison it would appear that the colonists
under his goverment were so delighted with the
idea of a representative government that they were not
in a fit position to examine the measure now proposed—a
measure which he regretted to say gave the nomination
of one-third of the chamber to the Crown. For his part,
he thought that it was the duty of this country to le-
gislate for her colonies, to profit by her experience, and
to select such a form of government as might be calcu-
lated to work well. He would ask, could there be a
doubt entertained of the decision to which the colonies
would come as to the question whether they were to
have two chambers or one chamber, with a third of it
nominated by the Government ?—(llear, and wits of
" Divide.") by
could not sit down without expressing
his regret !het the Pill should have such a blot in it as
that to which he alluded.—(Loud cries of " Dit ide, di.
vide.")
Mr. BASS proceeded to address the House, amid loud
demands for a division, but even the substance of what
he said could not be caught in the gellery.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it he did not think that some
llon. Members were not exactly aware of the immedia.e
question upon which they were going to divide, he
should not have again troubled the House. The Hon.
Baronet the Member for Southwark proposed to leave
out the words " of persons proposed by the Crown and
elected by the people," and to substitute other words in
their place. But the Hon. Baronet, in pressing his
views with respect to the two chambers, did not state
whether or not the two chambers were to be elective.
Both the Hon. Baronet and the Hoe. Member for
Buckinghamshire bud avoided that question; and, in-
deed, the latter had said that he would not bind himself
to the two chambers to be so appointad. He thought
it was of importance that the House should not
comer to a decision ti throw aside the plan of the Go-
vernment without seeing what they proposed in its place.
—(hear.) It they were to have two elective chambers
without any persons appointed by the Crown, he would
ask them were they sure that two chambers su composed
would not be the echo of one another?—(flesr ) Sech
would be the case if the House adopted the propo-
sition of the Honourable Baronet. Ile would ask them
then to consider what danger they might not incur if
they attempted to frame that Constitution in a different
manner for that colony than they proposed framing
constitutions for other colonies. The Bill they now
proposed was in conformity with one which had been
introduced by Lord Stanley in the year 1842. It had
been laid before Parliament last year, had been sent to
the Australian colonies, and from them no voice
of dissent had proceeded. If that were so, if the
colonists were pleased after examining its details, that,
at least, was a proof that the measure would not be
badly received in the colonies. The persons in this
country connected with the colonial interests implicated
in the Bill, had asked the House to pass it.—(Hear.)
The Honourable Gentleman who spoke last but one
had said there was no poWyr to alter the constitution
subsequently. What he proposed was, that they should
adopt a known principle of government before they at-
tempted to form what was a new constitution altogether.
The colonists would be likely to receive it with glad
ness now, but the only alternative of the acceptance of the
proposition before the House would be to delay the
measure for another years and that would be a great in-
jury, and would to felt with great dismay in the colo-
nies. Ile trusted the Bill would be received with the
view of ads ancing the interests of the colonies, and no-
thing else.—(Hear, and cries of " Divide.")
Sir W. MOLES WORTH, in reply, said his proposi-
tion embraced four distinct alterations in the clause.
The first cf them, upon which they would then divide,
was upon the omission of certain words. The principle
fer which he contended was that of the American states,
and the question was whether they would adopt a spstem
which had been only eight years in operation in Aus-
tralia, in preference to that which had been found to
work so well, alter an experience of many years, in the
United States.—(Cries of "Divide, divide.")
The 1 alleries were then cleared, when there:appeared—
For the amendment ... 150
Against it ... ••• 218
Majority against the amendment ---68
Mr. ANSTEY then propssed the omission of certain
words in the clause, with the view of placing the
carrying out of the Bill in the hands of the Got ernor,
instead of the Legislative Council, but did not press it to
a division.
Mr. WYLD, who arose amidst loud cries of "Ad-
journ," said tie did not rise for the purpose of moving
the amendment of which he had given notice, but to
ask the Government whether it was their intention to
make any peculiar provision for the convicts in Van
Diemen's Land, because a very material point would
arise upon that subject, as he held tine existence of free
institutions and the continuation of transportation in-
come atible.

should Lot fail to name an early day for We jr
reading. He moved, therefore, tha: tf e order 10
charged.—Agreed to.
The Xi erehunt Seamen's Fund Bid, which stood
second rf adinr, was postponed.
MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL. gOO%
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that tt is Bill, adve', '.;lot.
for a fe.!( ad reading, related to an aleration of ITT' #0
nage of vessels, as it IA present existed. • 0
r,„,„§oilt
founded on the recommendation of the Come'
( f last session, and had been circulated 9-oft
the classes connected with the mercantile circulated,
He believed that serious objections were enterts7pol
the Bill in its present form, and that it weelino,'
be right to press its adoption in the present enrol
(Lle,r, hear.) The subject, which was one Pseli
difficult), ould be considered between this widths .0,
session; and if he should then hold his present sillilt4fell
he thought, from the communications he bad "(140
that he should be able to submit a measure on the
lesl
ject. He be gged therefore to move that the Bill beA v,
a second time that day six months.—Motion egreeil
12
The ether orders were disposed of, and the
adjourned at One o'clock.

LAW IN TELLIGEN-Cl4l

BAIL COUR7', A ril 19.
I (Sittings at Nisi Pri us, before Mr. Justice CoLEritn6s
a Cemmon Jury.)
DAVIS U. DICKINSON. 011
This was an action on a warranty, the dect1
,-ahr
ti°
r
alleging that the plaintiff had purchased a cow e'Leolo
Pendant, which was warranted to be with calf, o"i:dial
calve bib weeks, ta which allegation the title-00
had pleaded that at the time of the sale she vitilitbt
calf, but she afterwards miscarried in consequence -nf
over-driving of the plaintiff. k
Mr. James, Q.C., wiih whom was Mr. ITulbne
peered for the plaintiff ; and Mr. Sergeant Sl'ee'
whom was Mr. Pearson, appeared for the defendant'or
Mr. JAMES stated the case. The plaintiff was° ilsot
chant carrying on business in the City, and the ciefri3 boul
a cattle-dealer, frequenting the various fairs thro4ng
the country. In November last the plain°ill. oplf
anxious to procure a cow which would ;fit -00,
his family with milk during the winter, and .our
",,
therefore, necessary that the cow which he thel to
chased should be in so interesting a situation a-ttsi
admit of her " calving down" in six weeks freallite
time. Accordingly he instructed Mr. Ilillinsdai‘lior
tired cattle dealer and agriculturist, to go over to b $0
ton fair, and see if he could secure such a CO
thillinsdale did so accordingly, and finding the dele,a-
eye
in possession of a large herd of cattle, he selec e
f—d
cow in question, for which the de feudant wacif; 91'
guineas. Mr. Hillinsdale, however, would only Vnrica
and ultimately the bargain was struck at thasrooll
the defendant warranting that the cow was in ca''; col
would calve down in six weeks. The..;,000
was driven that day from Kingston to 13",..70411,
and the following day to the plaintiff's Pf" 00
residence at Camberwell, where she was fencer
to be exceedingly friskey, in fact, a complete
breaker, and exhibiting symptoms which indicate: olio
,
thing but being in " a situation that cows should `",i tet
love bulls." An infallible test was then respite wilt
which satisfied Mr. Hillinsdale that she was n°„d00lo
calf, and ultimately she was returned to the defer 001
with an intimation that he must refund the IneceL'oogli
had been paid for her. This he refwel to do. 1.7,-$lll
he offered to exchange her for another, and Wain-eye
the matter ended in the present action at 104
id be
course of which it was anticipated that there Welted
a good deal of hard swearing, as generally 1345
in settling disputes abut quadrupeds. • 0
Mr. Hillinsdale was called to prove the purchase
the watr ant.
area
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant SHEE—Sbe „p
to be with calf, but the best judges were liable No
mistaken. Not being with calf, her aside
scarcely 5/.
oyd
John Chapman, the gardener of the plaintiff, yirib 01
that he received the cow at Camberwell on the ,:hete
November. She was put into a paddock "0-00
she was exceedingly restive, breaking a Ailed
and getting in amongst the other cows. This inw-gtoti
him to believe that she was not with en 14,4 10
at his recommendation the test already refers.'n As°
was put in practice, and the result proved that n'';asleri
not in calf, and she was therefore returned to the so'
who offered to refund tl a 9/. or exchange her ie-cjio
other, but Mr. Davis demanded more. The defe, Al.
denied having warranted her in coarse terms, an noo
though the cow was left with him he never waited.Pr
the plaintiff or moved further iu the affair. „j;
Cross-examined—When the cow was taken 'a-aito
the defendant he said he selected her out as being eye
calf bet ause she would run with the bull. Whedvaell
was returned she appeared to be tho same size 0 "
he
Rrece-ex eived her t
amined— Dwo months before.
isarrie r

ted—., -le cow could not have raj old
-
without his observing it. She was about two You."
this spring.

This was the case. tte' 4
t
Mr. Sergeant SUEE pointed out to they jury iRa-A0 d
was an hiatus in the history of the cow from the u,i-ies
the sale and the day of her return. The man wb°"-tlisl
her to Brixton was not here, and as ho should pre" for
she was in calf at the time of the sale, it would hed.i
the jury to determine whether or no she had not sliPbrt
her calf through over driving before she reached
destination at Champion-hill, Camberwell. 001
A nephew cf the defendant, named Bradshsfi'nur
then called, who stated that Ililllnsdale, when Ili!' 01
chased the cow, examine I her very minutely. S,he°o4
at the time very full of milk, and there could
doubt that when she was sold she was in calf or
me:est trifle would make a cow ma:carry. Eating
thing ff the I edge, such as a piece of yew, would Li° Os
Cross examined—A cow that miscarries 51300 bod
afterbirth fur two or three days, and if this OW heel;
slipped her calf on the way home, it must have "
visible to any one familiar with cattle. 4toll
Mr. James Smith, a cattle-dealer, was at givb,,lts
fair a hen this. cow was sold. Previous to the s'd-001
examined het, and found she was in calf: defee-
a.ked too much for her, and he did not buy.
Cross-c xanaita d—The reason he hit upon this Polo
cular he,fir was that it was his faucy, and fsncy we ilk'
great way sometimes. The dtfaidant asked hi
for her.

This was the defendant's case.
Mr. JAMES was about to reply, but,
The jury said they had made up their minds t°
for the plaintiff. O
A verdict was accordingly entered for the P-
W
damages 91.

Mr. HAWES said the Bill contained no provisions
rt Litive to the government of convicts.
Mr. PEEL wished to know why the number of the
Legislative Council in Van Diemen's Land was restricted
to tat. my-fur, when no limitation was placei on the
nu eber of the Members in New South Wales and West-
ern Australia.

, stel
A disastrous accident occurred on the Mallene,ruer,
Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway at Gainsborough Tin,7o4:
day morning. The down mail-train leaving Gahouvi-4010
at 8.25 A.m., had passed over the bridge on the Spitecigiael
and about a quarter of an hour afterwards a fine efoie'
called the Sysyphus, constructed by Sharpe and Co. e' of oe
chester, was shunting on the down line; when it had g;rclerg
the bridge by the length of the engine, the cast-iron fi pito
snapped in the middle, and the bead of the engine fe
„Vag/
the road, the ether end remaining connected by the CO line'
with the tender, which came to a dead pause on te:7l,cee
The driver a. d stoker escaped without injury. Had
a passenger-train, the consequences would have been eft*
As there are points on each side of the bridge convert the
both lines, the traffic during the day passed the bridge °IO ef•
up-line without interruption. Great inconvenience
perienced by the carts, Etc., from the country on thelnrd
to the market. All of them had to make their way ruti:t
Morton or by Foxby-lane. The girders were clot se;
foundry of Mr. Farmer, and were amply tested under t'oleo',
perintendence of the engineers before the line was fP„,
Whether, after all, there was some defect in the csenelr
the molecules of the iron had been disturbed in the'rcer
tive cohesion by the variation of temperature, is note r, be
tamed with certainty. Cast-iron girders will, boWevot
distrusted for the future, and public confidence will 'leer
restored till the principle of safety be more correctly u
mined in these bridges.—Lincoln Mercury. art°
THE Jowl R. SlLlDDY.—Several of the passe° an'
by this unfortunate vessel have returned to OswestrP,
they declare that instead of the plundering of the snip
the wreckers, the crew, as soon as they set all bande,; n
psr
pumps, went below and broke into the boxes of tr
sengers and took everything they could catch hold of. ott
majority of the passengers set sail again from. LiverPtore'
Monday last, in the ship A. Z., to try their luck once
—Hereford Journal.
[ADVERTISEMENT.]—The best Medicine for
plaints incidental to Females are Holloway's Pille*--'con°
Talbot, of Mitcham, informs Professor Hollowa that she br,
siders it her bounden duty to acknowledge the all onishiug, og
nefit she has derived from taking his pills. At the igot of
forty-five she began to suffer from a general derangeree oos
the system, langour, 'woollen legs, and other ailments je%,,
to females; and notwithstanding the most careful attentibibif
the advice of eminent phys.cians, her weakness and dea tool
continued to increase untilshe adopted another course, an well
Holloway's Pills, and this inestimable medicine has 0,11010
her to a soundness of health and buoyancy of spirits seu.,,c
bad not enjoyed for some years.—Sold by all DruggistelL, _
Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand LesuThre'
(711
NORTH STAFFORDSHIRE
„Tort.;
rences between this company and the London and an*
Western Company have at length been finally adjust7A's of
a satisfactory arrangement entered into under the id P
both companies, by which all litigation is superseded,
general adjustment of the traffic effected. -

Mr. HAWES could assign no particular reason for
axing the number at tws-nty-four, but it mu.t be re-
ti,e,bbered that in New South \Vales the Legislative
Council was a repieseatutive body,
.while in Van
Diernen's L &nd it was a Crown legislature. •
Mr. ANSI EY then proposed the omission of the
pr,sLion ehich ..omitted the nominees of the Crown to
seats in the. legislature with the members elected by the
people.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amoJchnent ••• 27
Against it ... ••• ••• 159
Majority ... ••• --132
Clause 6, as a nendvd, was then agreed to, and
The CHAIRMAN reported progress and obtained
leave to sit again.

HS.
On the 10th inst, at BIR
theT &kid'
Forest-green House, ,
Surrey, Mrs. K. G. Ftarmer, of a son. 1. °'
• the WI of
On the 11th inst., in Merrion-square, Dublin, -dge,
J. Purchas, Esq., M.A., of Christ's College, (Jambi'
a son. • bits.

On the 13th init., at Sharston, Northenden, Cheshire, -
Josiah Roberts, of a son. flelch
On the 14th inst., at Woodfield-house, near 'bade°
Mrs. Bentley Shaw, of a daughter. ~,AOOl
On the 16th inst., Mrs. F. Lawrence, Milton-on-41"
of a daughter.
At St. Alb, le JO''

_ Jan's, on t
Hall, of a son.

'th inst., the wife of tb

JIARRIED.
~
ide
On the 15th inst., John Wise Stevens Esq., of lutirglit`"
wells, to Mary Tenterden, the youngest surviving '•"*.--
of T. Abbott, Esq., of llorsmonden, Rent: ChArlei
On the sth inst., at Anton's hill, Berwickshire,
Samuel Grey, Esq , second son of the late lion. Sir ''f
the
Grey, Bart., to Margaret Dysart, youngest (laughter -
late General Sir Martin Hunter, G.C.M.G.,

. _
DIED.
~ willio'
ill
On the 15th inst., at Tynemouth, aged 61, J. 11 • .
son, Esq., of Wbicham. t of Ir.
On the 16th inst., at Beckenham, Kent, Mary, relierigh-
0. Powis, Esq., late of Grafton-street, Marine•parade,
ton, aged b 6. eg,
On the 16th inst., at Farnborough, Warwickshire, Faille
fourth daughter of V. Hotbed), Esq., aged 39. /ic tot
On the 16t1: inst., at Stoke-next-Guildford, Kitty', re
Mr. H. Webb, of Lambeth. r` _pat
On the 17th inst., in Tavistock•square, Caroline Law
niece of Mr. Alderman and Sheriff Lawrence.
On the 17th inst., aged 59, Susanna-Andrews, the Wire of
T. Hibbert, Esq , of Lverton, near Lhierpool. be DO
At Croydon, on the 17th inst, Elizabeth, relict of t •
J. Bordwine, Esq. '-f''''-

MERCANTILE MARINE BILL.
Ur. LABOUCIIERE said he wished to withdraw
this Bill in order to bring in an monde.' one. He

of 0,
London: Printed and Published by MURDOYOI)I4iIk
co,
No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Elms Oin „nog
strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the 10'—_
Middlesex, Saturday, April 20, 1850. .)