The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-04 00:00:00

parish or union of parishes might carry out the object
multiplicity
but upon consideration, looking to the
of interests concerned, ho came to the con-
clusion that it wesild be physically impossible to carry
it out if it were left to parishes alorae. He believed,
therefore, although he would net defend all the provi-
sions of this Bill, that it would be impossible to aba,s,
the nuisance c mplained of, end to carry on extramural
interments without some such board as was now pro-
Posed. He did not wish to cone-alit j—the less of cen-
tralization the better—but there might he pecu'iar cases
where selt-governmeet was improper. Tike Smithfield
Market—would they leave that entirely in the hands of
the Corporation of Loud an? And there were other
Similar cases. He believed that it would be better for
the people to accept this Bill than to run the risk of
loving it altogether, and have the possibility of the
cholera again occurring.—(Cries of " Oh, oh!") The
Bill was absolutely necessary for the welfare of the
country—it was loudly called for by the people, and
ought to pass into law.
Sir B. HALL said, the statement of the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Home Secretary was most unsaasfictory.
lie had stated that in 18.54 the'suhject might be again
considered. They had, however, had such assertions
before; for instance, when the income-tax was proposed
they were told they might reconsider it at the end of
three years, but they had had it from that time to the
Present. Once let the board in question be established,
and it would be difficult to get rid of it. The Tiestion
at issue was, whether they should take from the metro-
politan parishes the power of interfering in these matters.
if they could show that the three large parishes with
Which he was connected, St. Maryleb me, St. Pancras,
and Paddington, had so maladministered their affairs
that it was necessary to take the control of them out of
their hands, he would say, let it be done at once; but
Whilst he would go as far as any one where private
burial- grounds were concerned, he did object to inter-
fering with metropolitan boards that showed intelligence
sad activity, and would, as ho believed, conduct their
business much better than it would be done by the cen-
tral board.
,The CHAIRMAN explained that as the proposition
O' the Hon. Gentleman was to expunge the clause, and
eoraething had been said about amendments being pro-
Posed in the clause itself, it was necessary first to dis-
Pose of such amendment.
Sir W. CLAY said, the real question was as to the
best mode of constituting the central body, for it seemed
to ba quite admitted that the end they had in view could
not be carried out by all the parishes without intercom-
kunication. Now, there were 87 parishes to be cora-
Prehended by this Bill, and the question was whother
each parish was to have a control in constituting the
beeentral body, each sending a representative—than which
Could conceive nothing less adapted to the end in
tiew; or whether the body was to consist only of three
at four persons chosen by the different parishes.
Lord ASHLEY, after complimenting Mr. Chadwick,
*ll,O he spoke of as a useful public servant, proceeded
Say that the measure would impose no expense upon
the
of the metropolitan parishes. Power was taken by
Lae Bill to levy a rate of a penny in the pound, but it
Would be mere)), nominal, and in the nature of a security
money enable the central authority to raise a sum of
'44bey for the purchase of ground and to defray the
eXpence of the arrangements ;which must neces-
sarily be entered into. The payment of interest and of
capital would be provided for out of the fees to be
Charged for burials. There could be no d übt upon that
Point. If the number of interments should amouet to
the usual averages—namely, 52,000, the fees would be
!note than sufficient to repay the capital with interest.
4t was not until after mature deliberation the Board. of
tiealth determined against employing the agency of the
Parochial system in carrying out this great work. If the
parishes should act singly they would be too weak to
effect good; if they should act in combination their ma-
chinery would prove too unwieldy for efficient operation.
Then, again, if parishes were to act separately the ex..'
Pense would be greatly enhanced, for each would have
its own burying-ground, its own officers, and its own
estab:islimeut charges. At present where the burial-
Places w. re of easy access the expense of funerals
Pressed heavily on the humbler classes; but it was evi-
dent that the expense would be seriously aggravated wla n
t became
recessary to convey corpses six, seven, or ten
'taigas from London accordingly as the different parishes
!eight select the places of sepulture. The only way
In which it was possible to reduce the expense of extra-
tural interments was by undertaking the business on
a 14140 scale. The experience which he had of parochial
authorities in August and September last, when the
incline cholera was sweeping away its hundreds per day, did not
an him to confide to them the administration of such
limportant measure as that under the consideration of
s"e Committee. It could be carried int) complete effect
?' a strews. and independent body. As to responsibility,
It
trot vvhic% so much was said, it would be greater under
l„ e Plan proposed by the Bill than it could possibly be
_ader the parochial system. Could it be seriously
"laintained that the responsibility of any parochial officer
.
e 4 equal to the direct and personal responsibility of a
etaber of the central board having a seat in the House
ebCommons, and liable at any time to be questioned
rarest the proceedings of himself and his colleagues?
Ole Parochial system which was sought to be upheld had
t?h'eb in existence for many years, and under it had sprung
all those abominations in churchyards which it was
object of the present measure to put an end to. The
Neel of extramural interment was established in the
I:eater part of the civilized world—in Prussia, Ger-
ie4nT, Italy, France, and even in Turkey; and in every
aitance it was carried into effect by means of central
authority.
ii.,4r- Alderman SIDNEY said it was estimated that
,Zaooo/. would be required for launching the scheme,
N, 1 le,ooo/. annually for the working of it. The
s(.lule Lord said, that the money required would be
52,0 by fees upon interments. Well, if there were
,00 burials annually the fees must amount to 21. on
cash burial to cover the expeuse.—(Hear, hear.) The
off of London was prepared to abandon the practice
,':huryint, within the walls ; they were provided with
wil`tahle g;ound in the country, and all they desired
as to he allowed to make their own arrangements.
eiahir. HENRY DRUMMOND said, that almost every
th--te in the Bill was objectionable. At the same time
eould be unwise to reject it altogether. Rather let
,a discard what was bad and retain what was good.
tra'ir DE L. EVANS opposed the clause. Because ex-
it 'buret interment was necessary it did sot follow that
ai,w,ea necessary to appoint an irresponsible tribunal
than powers. of the most extraordinary description to
Peil„nge the whole system of our local administration.
14;",,,4113 the next proposition would be that the Poor-
‘-ocainissioners should put down the boards of guar-
e,'es and the patocbial vestries. He hoped the Go-
titnaent would suspend the passing of the clause, and
the le, time to suggest a substitute.
°rd J. RUSSELL observed that all the opposers of
th clause seemed to have fallen into two errors—first,
Practice Our parishes had been tor the last 300 years in the
are of burying the dead; and, secondly, that the
eo-aP°sed board would be irresponsible. He had always
pltr".erstood that if a pauper died in a workhouse the
b 1111413 had to take care he should be decently interre
lir.a;' to parishes having any general control over the
thol`" of all person,, he sad not say it was a power
soh); had never exercised, and one which could only be
IN: erred on them now by an Act of Parli anent.
khc:::th,r. the whole of the declarations they had heard
l'ish,"alf•governnaent fell to the ground, and the pa-
th had no more claim to exercise that power than
44; "ad to say to the Admiralty, " We can build ships
wter than you, and ought to build them exclusively."
kb Avg admitted, without a dissentient voice, that int, r-
-1/41 ja in that great metropolis and in the thickly inha-
in,:.Puhurbs should no deriver take place, because the
°f the dead was a cause of disease and mortality
tet.4:ni?: the living.—(Hear. hear.) It being necessary to
th,t that system, let the House consider in whose hands
'lial);•Coold best place the power of carrying the alters-
, lite Ant° effect. If they could obtain a better body than
' oard of Health they would be wise to give it that
lieolert but let them not run away with the notion that
they had parochial bodies already those
%kQll`a were the best fitted to exercise that power. Was
ta „Parish to find a separate burial ground, and to
th:tlcie a cemetery according to its requirements? In
,Ilee*,,,aY the Bill could never be carried into effect at all.
,Igoe
p `-tontlemen talked of the expense of this Bill, but
leetliPpente to which the ratepayers of the metropolis
,'cited be put by such a proposition would be something
llued'ond contemplation, and persons of small
togameas
`traabinue. utterly ruined.—(Hear,. hear.) Then as
ation of parishes, was this a sort of business a
fro
of parishes ought to undertake? Let them
htlet met that in adopting that plan they were departing
Parochial constitution and self-government they
ao highly.—(llear, hear.) If they had 80 or 90
Itoolcietsa taking on themselves the burial of all persons, it
as great an innovation as the proposal of Go-
eale rode
It was,in fact, necessary to create a new
k et, because,, what was proposed was new, and their
effecting it must be new also. If 80 or 90
Ititt, were to combine it would be necessary to have
taut trace of meeting which would, of course, be clis-
kts; ()ttrin the residence of some of the parish represen-
-11:sa e attendance, consequently, could not always be
t;terly On, and a board so constituted would be
i; neat °dyte carry on the business. He came, then,
of, conclusion that they must have some small
N MIK:IDS—he would not say with the precise
ApptoProposed, but wilib such powers as would enable
e
t tO thetri o the objct as to wich all were geed.
11°,1he
art, irresponsibility of the Board of Healtha r, it was
enleinbered that the chief Commissioner of that
h':le%to " also chief Commissioner of the Woods and
%a:4 °d that, in the, case of any abuse or complaint,
Pet. seta° responsible, for anything done in his depart-
en 4:0 one had suggested any better body to intrust
th-se Powers; ai id, if they determined to do away
t: P?eaent systiern, they had better take the means
t,elioorrl, thee,. The Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr.
Nty e?,e) had dec'aered himself convinced of the ne-
iibl,o doing eorbething for the preservation of the
Oabtie -41 th, and then said the Government Bill was a
rt,etis of J;)h- If it was advisable to indulge in impute-
ofsPect kind., it might be easy to make them with
ito the the oleposition to the Bill, and to the motives
betatioPPosers, which would be quite as valid as the
va the
wpns of the Hon. Member.—(Hear, hear.) He
we're the °°- Gentleman full credit for wishing to pre-
Oat , Public health, and hoped ho (Mr. Duncombe)
thegive ,v,_
tte aesoe, `." Sallie credit to Government. The Hon.
to. Ideate ".(Mr. Alderman Sidney), who had reminded
Iti:tete
tohit would cost 112,0001. to work the Bill, forgot
th_tita ,0„.1t. the estimated saving on the annual inter-
. I‘,oat eeialutlif
Die be in round numbers 350,0001. Though
effect exaggerated, it must be admitted the Bill
al a eat diminution of expense.
I
t-`450 gr
are T thought the Noble Lord went too far
Thty (4 e r sued that if all were agreed as to the neces-
ehiclotioblee7l,,edYs they must adopt the means he offered.
vie e. rd had quite failed in showing the paro-
tioq,tll.,t'iu:
Nlvtie3 Could not carry out the proposed change,
ehaalble b_ 43 necessary to appoint a new and irre-
litiater thaa:rd, With
Powers unknown to the constitution,
'htll4 ilos, those of any board at present existing.
~ttac On leny departure from the principle