The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-13 00:00:00

FRAME-WORK KNITTERS.

Mr. FERRAND said that during the last session he
had presented petitions from ukiwards of 25,000 frame-
work knitters, complaining of the injustice done to
them by their emp'oyers, and stating that the last Com-
mission had been productive of no good results to them.
They now prayed for another Commission.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, that at the last Commission a
gentleman named Mugeridge presided, and the fullest
inquiry had been entered upon.
Mr. FERRANI) said, that those people complained
of the appointment of this gentleman, as _ the
Commission gave groat dissatisfaction to them.
Sir J. GRAHAM defended this gentleman's appoint-
ment.

FACTORIES BILL.
The Factories Bill was read a second time.
METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS BILL.

Upon the Order of the Day for the third reading of
the Metropolitan Improvements Bill being put by. the
Speaker,
Mr. HUME wished to ask the Noble Lord, at the
head of the Woods and Forests department, whether
Government intended to adopt any measure, whereby the
inhabitants of those neighbourhoods where new improve-
ments were to be carried out, would be prevented from
injury to their trades caused by leaving those places in
such a state of dilapidation as they had been for an un-
necessary length of time.
Lord LINCOLN said the Government had adopted
every means in their power to prevent the inconvenience
to which the Hon. Gentleman alluded.
The Bill was then read a third time. On the question
that it do pass—
Mr. HUME begged to move as an amendment in
page 2, line 15, that the words " Governor and Com-
pany of the Bank of England," be struck out.
Mr. HAWES seconded the motion.
The SPEAKER having put the question,
Mr. MASTERMAN said the Hon. Gentleman was
perfectly right in the objection whieh he made. He
(Mr. Masterman) was one of those who thought it was
most prejudicial to the interests of the public for a body
like the Bank of England to lock up their money in those
securities, because they could not readily recal it for the
public use. He very much objected to the principle, and
he was very glad that it had been brought before the
House.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that, as he had stated to the House before, a power
had been given by an Act of Parliament to the Woods
and Forests to borrow money for the purpose of carry-
ing on improvements in particular parts of the metro-
polis. By that Act the power was given to borrow the
money generally from the Bank of England. There
had been considerable competition as to who should be
the parties to lend the money. The terms offered by
the Bank of England had been more favourable to the
public than those which had been offered by any company,
and when the plan came into execution, a legal doubt
was raised as to whether it was competent for the Bank
of England to lend the money—a legal opinion was
taken, and it was in favour of the Bank of
England's lending the money, without any altera-
tion of the law being requisite for the purpose.
Upon the matter being submitted to him, notwith-
standing the legal authority on the question, le thought
it better to submit it to Parliament; and, therefore,

the present Bill was only a fulfilment of the powers
given by the 4th and sth of Victoria to the Woods and
Forests to borrow money for public purposes. It was
not, as he had stated before, locking up money in the
same way as that which was lent upon mortgage. The
money thus lent by• the Bank of England would be all
repaid in the course of five years, by instalments from
time to time, as there were proceeds arising from
the improvements which had taken place, that made
it less acceptable security for private parties, but at the
same time it rendered it deeper security to the Bank of
England, for the money was not locked up during the
whole period, but was gradually taken out from time to
time, as he had mentioned, and the arrangement there-
fore did not appear to him to be liable to the objection
taken to it by the lion. Gentleman opposite.
Mr. HAWES took rather a different view of the
matter from that taken by the Hon. Gentleman (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer). Nothing was a more es-
tablished principle in banking than that capital was to
be invested at all times in such securities as could be
most readily converted into money. That certainly was
not the case with the system suggested in this instance.
Would any one say that the investment was one which
accorded with any approved banking system ? If he
understood the Bill, it gave a clear power to invest
without the necessity of repayment for four years. It
was an injudicious use of banking capital, and he hoped
the House would not give its sanction to such a mischievous
principle. The House had heard what had been said
upon the subject by his lion. and Learned Friend, the
Member for the City of London. lie did not believe
that any one who was at all conversant with banking,
could approve of the course taken by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the ChanCellor of the Exchequer. They
were going to raise large sums of money for metro-
politan improvements from another source—the coal
duties, and he thought that it would be expedient to
look to that fund as a means of raising this money. At
all events, the Bank ought not to set such an example to
the other banks throughout the country.
Mr. M. PHILIPS said he quite concurred in the
view taken by his Honourable Friend, the Member
for the City of London. He thought the security
was quite inadequate, and as a mercantile man
his confidence in any individual banker, however re-
spectable, would be shaken, if he thought that any con-
siderable portion of his funds were invested in mort-
gages, and therefore not available for immediate use.
He would, especially, object to the Bank of England
holding securities that were not thus available.
Mr. C. WOOD said that in consequence of the objec-
tions which were entertained to the Bank of England
advancing money on mortgage, it had entirely
ceased to invest money on such security.
It would be highly inexpedient for Parliament to sanction
such a practice. The security would not be available,
and the repayment was contingent. If he thought that
there was no possibility of obtaining money from any other
source, he might be disposed to waive his objection, but he
apprehended that such was not the fact. He did not
know why money should not be obtained, for instance,
from the Exchequer Loan Commissioners. Under such
circumstances he could not give his consent to the Bill.
Sir R. PEEL said his own opinions on this subject
would prevent him from giving his sanction to the
general principle upon which it was stated that the
measure was founded. There were very great objec-
tions to any banking establishment advancing its funds
on securities which might not be available in cases of
necessity. But he really thought it was hardly possible
to consider this case as a violation of the rule.—(Hear.)
The total sum which it was proposed to borrow did not
exceed 200,0001, and he thought the proposed arrange-
ment was both economical and convenient. He hoped
that the House would not consider that, by consenting to
this Bill, they were instituting a dangerous precedent.
Mr. HUME said it was not the amount, but the prin-
ciple, to which he objected. He hoped the Right Hon.
Baronet would postpone the Bill till to-morrow, in order
to see if any modifications could be introduced.
• Mr. S. WORTLEY felt the same objection as the
Hon. Member for Montrose to the principle involved in
the Bill, but ,he thought that considering the smallness
of the sum and the circumstances of the case, there was
little danger to be apprehended from assenting to the
measure.

Dr. ROWRING said the Right Hon. Baronet was
sanctioning a principle which he acknowledged to be
bad, and, concurring in the objection, he (Dr. Bowring)
should oppoSe the measure.
Sir R. PEEL said, perhaps it would be best to intro-
duce a limitation for the purpose of removing the ob-
jection.

Mr. TURNER thought that Parliament ought not to
interfere with the Bank in making the best use of its
money.___

GISBORNE thought this Bill made it imperative
on the Bank to lend their money, and he would certainly,
therefore, vote against it.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the clause 145
Against it
Majority -- 75,
A provision was then agreed to, by which the amount
to be lent by the Bank. should not exceed 220,0001.,
after which the Bill was passed.
BETS ON HORSE-RACING PENALTIES BILL.
Sir R. PEEL then rose to propose that the thanks of
the House be presented to the Hon. Sir Charles Napier,
upon which
Mr. _HUME rose to order. He thought there was an
Order of the Day not disposed of, namely, the Gaming
Penalties Bill.
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY said, this was not a Gambling
Bill.—(Laughter.) It left the laws with respect to
gambling precisely in the same state.as they were before.

Mr. HUME—Then I shall move that the Bill be''',
this d six mths.
Sir Ray
. PEEL said he had brought his motion.f°
ward, as he understood that there was no other busitir:
on the paper that would occupy more than five Inifluf,
Mr. HUME said the Bill could be postponed to
3
ture day. tIO
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY said it was important
1
this Bill should be brought forward, as tiel
were at present actions pending which might be,
at the assizes, which would commence next Saturosi'J
Mr. CHRISTIE wished to know, as his motion '4(%
next to the Gaming Penalties Repeal Bill, whethenr;
that Bill were postponed, the motion following 4
be postponed also.
The SPEAKER said it was usual, when a ctio
thanks was to be proposed, to take that motion
the Order of the Day.—(Hear, hear.) The Right' fi
Gentleman had, therefore, taken the proper course•ets
present there was no motion for the postponement e`
Order of the Day.
Lord J. RUSSELL entirely concurred in 0%30
just laid down ; but he must say that it was ;snoleisf
irregular to go half way through the Orders dale
and then go on with a motion of thanks.—(Hear,
Sir R. PEEL—I did it on the assurance that t
was no Order of the Day that would take any tinle.to
was not his fault that he had not brought forward
motion at the usual time.

After a few words from' Mr. HAWES,
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY said he would postro,";#
reading of the Bill till Wednesday, provided "' .i
generally understood that he woultn)e allowed to
it on first that day, no!
Mr. M. GIBSON, for one, could not concur
4
arrangement which would take preedence of the 11,1'bel
of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell), for it wool(' ri)
most extraordinary thing, in the middle of an eV
debate, to introduce a new subject.—(Hear, hear) y
Mr. CHRISTIE thought the Order of the P5,);1rl
reading the Gaining Penalties Repeal Bill ought
read for the purpose of postponement. 1011
The SPEAKER then put the question, and dec
that the " Ayes" had it.
Several Hon. Members on the Ministerial side /1:10
House here exclaimed, " No ; the Noes had ,

laughter.) „
The SPEAKER, after a pause—l think the
have it.—(Renewed laughter.) a 0
Several Hon. Members on the Ministerial side"
the Noes have it."--(Continued laughter.) ft,
The SPEAKER—Then strangers must withal tie
'
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, sn" tin
our re-admission we found that there would be OS
sion until after the vote of thanks to the army en
in the operations in Sinde had been disposed of. TIP
THANKS TO SIR CHARLES NAPIER ANI'
ARMY ENGAGED IN SINDE.
Mr; BRIGHT presented a petition from Durha ;00
preenting the passing of a vote of thanks to thee(' *I
in Sinde. The first reason the petitioners urg'rolle,
that a large number of the British troops had neti
in that war ; and next, because they (the petit Ot
considered that the House of Commons would u'obi
prived of its title to that of a Christian Senate if
,efee "
vote were passed by them. The petitioners the,
prayed that, for the honour of the British Parli3sitl!'
the vote of thanks would be either negatived or t
drawn. He should state before sitting down th.ll„ister
petition was signed by no less than seventeen
of religion. aft,lP
Sir R. PEEL—Sir, Irise to move that the thanks 6011 r,
House be voted to the British Army and its be if,
Commander, for the services rendered, under t,'3o
critical and trying circumstances, upon the Iffet,,
the Indus, and which army, under the greatest, Intl
ties, exhibited the utmost good discipline, an sho
taMed—nay, even exalted—the high character.eb ee
the British army has always supported, and svi.isie
titles the army of Sinde, and its Commander, t°
thanks of the House.—(Cheers.) Sir, with the Putiot4,
the measure, in the carrying out of which tbsoisii
was engaged, I have nothing to do on this ,seti
whether it was justifiable to exact from the •Imefo
cession of their territory, in lieu of the tribute oisl
paid, is, in my opinion, a question whie,ll,csee;;
to be altogether forgotten in this matter.---k 11, 4.
I now only call the attention of the ~boys
to the conduet and merits of the gallant men .sbeditaf'r
formed the first duty of the soldier, namely,
to lawful authority; and the mode in which t"`,1);04,"
bited that obedience entitles them to the public 3) 'ls
lodgment for which I now ask.—(Hear,
gallant Commander got his instructions ir"gt horl'
Governor-General, and also had his a
choll
from the ex-Governor-General. Sir, I be' 4
prepared on the proper occasion, if neehat,lp
vindicate the instructions which were given':„lcetf.
the present occasion, in conformity with the us%did
I shall altogether abstain from introducing any 110,1;
sion upon the policy of the operations.—(ll,clieliki
Sir, the information which has been recentlY -I,ttes`)
table of the House, and the degree :of public -tions
which has been directed to the present opersii,to°or
Sinde, relieve me from the necessity of entering the
detail with regard to the measures which led t°,.„
Ind
ployment of the British army on the banks of tw-dellw,,
I take for granted that every gentleman has 013 „bet,
self sufficiently master of the papers which Iltt!otel
laid before the House by the Government, to obil,0110"
necessity for any such detail. The House will V:
that about the month of September, 1842, Sir-,
Napier was directed to take the command of the `,‘,
army in Sinde. The active operations in which.;;4l
engaged extended over a period which was inclituot
tween the Ist of January, 1843, and the latter eo,
March in the same year. That period of three,
includes the battle of Meeanee and the battle of
abad. The two battles, which are the most rile
operations in contemplating that eampaign--yt
battles of Meeanee and Hyderabad—were feu„ can
far different circumstances. In the battle of oseor.
the first report of Sir Chas. Napier, makes the
reel;
posed to the British arms about 22,000 men; ye g`;
his own force to be about 2,800 men. I'3 01.4
-reason to believe that ho has overrated the battli,4
of the British force which he commanded at t,.llcos
Meeanee, and that he has underrated the 11-,1. choii)
was opposed to him.—(Hear, hear, from Silei6f
Napier.) I believe it would be more cons's 5 solit)
truth to state that the number of British trot/ad
arms at the battle of Meeanee was 2,000 Ine:1'000 I:r;
the force opposed to them amounted to 25,0.„,is
The force of the Ameers consisted of men asolildi?
war, of great natural power and of desperate resole
.jr(
to which full credit was given in the Oral oat to
patches of Sir C. Napier. That force—let 115tioliS?
it according to the original estimate as
22,000 men—occupied a very formidable r se, ter,
was placed in the dry bed of a water-coral, 101010
during the inundation of the Indus is filled "Itors',,, I
On the flanks of the enemy were a village at ~did
woods of the country. The position was defci
think, fifteen pieces of artillery, an relied
such a force 2,500 men at the utmost 111
the purpose of defending their lives, a° the
ing their country's greatness.—(Cheers.) ~.
of Hyderabad, the force of Sir Charles Na.Pli(l i;ote`i
ceived some addition. He had called to hi„ estkiste
three regiments, and the British force maY eel lie
at 5,000 men, while the force opposed to him cor„,,
of about 20,000 men. No greater proof of tn 0011/
and resolution of the Ameers can be .i`'e,..)es 143'10°:
which is adduced in the dispatch of Sir do' the Terr
that upon the approach of the British aritl'onsl
chees gave that evidence of valour which is st JeChldl'e
with respect to European armies, the 01, ?, IP]
and which corresponded to actual conflicts
bayonet. After discharging their fire-al...J:3st°' V'
troops of Sir Charles Napier, the ellant
rushed from the water-course in which theiroapv;
up their position, and attacked the British t pr°.
,ereof
the swords and shields with which they " test'
.10 k
Nothing can be more decisive than the `,hiP'
the.
borne by Sir Charles Napier to d 400:11
of those who opposed his army, alltbst
the whole of their conduct shows doll' tr,
valour was supported by considerable °sir, jo,is
on the part of the leaders.—(Hear, hear.) stit.lit;gtit,l",,,
two battles, notwithstanding that there wand of 'itt4
mense disproportion of force, the small ba. .r
soldiers fully maintained the charaetwerheorfet.ihetair:,loispilio4;
:-(Hear, hear.) In the first battle,
was greatest, the force consisted of Britistto thip.ter,,,of
partly of'Sepoys, and it is most gratifying the
there was no disproportion of valour betwere;aorel he
and the Europeans ; that, animated by ti'egshin at t
their officers, both Sepoys and Europeans 130tietViij
equal degree of courage and determination: not Ove,
same time, justice requires that we shouln „tea°
the great cause of victory. The victories of '-ajolf
offiCe,
of Hyderabad are each, in my opt
°oat
wad`
ascribed to the example set by that gall C h
who was responsible for the issue of t'ot,te
—(Hear, hear.) It is most fi)rtf of sc:
at such a crisis, and under circumstances
hazard, the command of the British area eliel'4l
, ha% , iin t
mitted to one of the three brothers, wn° ratite ,130 h ,
upon the stem of an ancient and honoil tiobleo,
that personal nobility which is derived folnof hon,°„l,
private character, from the highest sense th
is
from repeated proofs of valour in the fie.' ais °Ale(
on sr- (le
made their names conspicuous in the th se tss°
country's glory.—(Cheers.) Each tiseconi•Ab
learnt the art of war under an Mastro,
_tops,!itosj, seri
During the whole of those memorable, 70.,/,ar.Lrstlios
which one of them has been the faithful,
,hrea,e five,
eloquent describer, the exploits of those
..Lntry. A`,
entitle them to the gratitude of their
ce°,!;eninsi!'the'„
hear.) In almost every action of th -1- r. 11104
gave proofs of their military skill and vgi;-:::;(10 PIO
tions at Corunna, Civitta Vecchia, and Li_s, no
and during the operations of the Pyren,e4 00.'1 lof
000
officer was more prodigal of his blood in t,',;
country, than were each of the officer.,?
•Lr sow !'1,.0
referred.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, the 0ttr.,,,,, ths`:6ol3'ol
command of our Indian army bears a ,tifi;t pogo 004‘,
there is none more conspicuous in the hf,'l6,.P:r, or l'ot 0:00,
contain the records, whether in them ult,rsiiscesl 100,4
omit. oval cool
annals of this country, of desperateti
fare. Sir, when we read the account ° ,sit 1
in which, in the course of five minutes'
wholly unable—except as directed by
te
and valour—to compete with the enealYn twilled hi so
of five minute: signal victory has bee
~,(1, an ast,t so
glories of St. Vincent have been re" a clyTsucP
the
mere effect of that victory a change 11-1„ot °the l'ilete
taken place. When we read the ace° t .e
action, we find that the commander 71.1 in Oil
e e
of Napier.—(Loud cheers.) Nay' ; s, ottP t°
limited and circumscribed operatl the etnpoent
similar indications of bravery. Wit"' iat)riolle,rete6l
the last year, it became ot the uttnos the tiire'oll
show to a misguided multitude, what
,ers,,-hclitite ere,
strength of the law, and of the civil pow woo\ qiity
by the consciousness of right and 131 ce°lisnitetotpts'id,
and valour; even in that case, on a more sis. apeislf
when one man attacked hundreds wit'', e
of 1,4
and captured more of the party to wholr t.totihl ti,sotoy
than the men whom he commanded, I (atoe
thinking, that the man who set this courrortio
in the maintenance of Va., civil laW b°