The Sun.
London, England, 1857-11-04 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, NOVEMBER 4, 1857.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.

BETTING AT MANCHESTER-TUESDAY.

Betting to-day was chiefly confined to the Worcester
Handicap, now decided in favour of Laodamia, Weather-
glass, Laodamia, and Kenerdy being most in demand.
Speculation upon the Liverpool Autumn Cup was
very limited, many accounts upon the Cambridgeshire
Stakes are at present unsettled, the cause of which we
presume is, many of the subscribers attending Tatter-
sall's and the Worcester Meeting.

LIVERPOOL AUTUMN HANDICAP.
11 to 2 agst Underhand (taken)
6to 1 agst Wardermarske (taken)
10 to ] agst Cotswold (taken)

WORCESTER AUTUMN MEETING.—TIIESDAY.
Sweepstakes of 5 cove each, with 25 added, for two

and three-yr-olds. One mile. 6 subs.
Mr. Barber's Lord Nelso❑, by Collingwood, 3 yrs, Bst 71b
(Dales) 1
Mr. T. Stevens's Barbarity, 3 yrs, Bst 41b (Prior) 2
Mr. G. Drewe's D'Arcy, 2 yrs, 64 71b (Bray) 3
Childrey, Mitraille, end Chaperone, also ran.
Betti❑g-5 to 4 on Lord Nelson, 3to 1 against
Childrey. . _

Won easily by a length, half a length between the
second and third, Childrey and Alitraille welt up,
Handicap of 5 sovs. each, with 40 added for two-yr-olds.
The winner to be sold for 50 novo., etc. About one
mile.
Mr. Cocking'a Sobieski, Sat 71b (T. Cliff) 1
Mr. Curtis's Joe the Quack, Bst 7th .. .(Cowley) 2
Mr. B. Land's Greengage, 7st 911) (J. Land) 3
Babble, Hark-forward, and Thistledown, also ran,
Betting-7 to 4 aget Thistledown, 3to 1 agst Hark-
for ard.

Won by two lengths; half a length between the second
and third, thiritiTdoiin and Hark-forward belted.
The Worcester Autumn Handicap of 10 sore. each, b.
ft., and three only if declared, &c., with 100 added.
Certain Winners extra. Two miles. 30 subs, 10 of
whom declared.
Mr. Saunders's Laodamia, 3 yrs, 6st 71b
(L. Snowden) 1
Mr. E. Jones's Curious, 4 yrs, 7st 81b (French) 2
Mr. Le Mert's Bel Esperanza, 3 yrs, let 31b, (ino.
5113 ext.) (Ducker) 3
The following also ran :—Kenerdy, Miss Harkaway,
Hobgoblin, The Dupe, Blue-Bell, Weatherglass, and
Dusty Miller.
Betting-5 to 2 agst Weatherglass-9 to 2 agat Lao-
damia-6 to 1 agst Kenerdy-100 to 15 agst Miss
Harkaway.
Won by ten lengths ; half a length between the seoond
and third.

Selling Stakes of 5 sows each, with 25 added ; for three-
yr•o!ds and upwards. One mile and a quarter. 4
subs.

Mr. Cliff's Amorous Boy, 3 yrs (301.), 6st 111 b (Bray) 1
Mr. Melli,h's Rotterdam, 3 yrs (301.), 7at...(Cuatanoe) 2
Mr. J. Dawson's Agra, 4 yrs (501.), gat 31b...(Frenoh) 3
Mr. Copses Wellmn, 6 yrs (501.), 9.t 31b (Grub) 4
Betting—Even on Agra--3 to 1 agst Rotterdam.
Won by a neck ; two lengths betifeen the second and
third.

The winner was sold for 51 guineas.
The Hurdle Race Handicap of 5 Boys each, with 30
added. Two miles, over six flights of hurdles. 17
subs.
Mr. Philip's Heads or Tails, 3 yrs, 9st 41b (W. White) 1
Mr. Price's Brompton, 6 yrs, 9:1 71b (R. Sly) 2
Mr. Hylton's Teddesley, aged, 9st 41b (Holman, jun.) 3
The following also ran :—The Farmer, Evington
Lass, The Scamp, Earthatopper, and Perseverance.
Betting-5 to 2 agst Evington Lass-7 to 2 agat
Eartbstopper-5 to 1 ag4 Teddesley-7 to 1 agat Heads
or Tails.

Won cleverly by half a length ; three lengths between
the second and third ; the others beaten off.
The weather was very bad, the ground deep, and the
attendance small.

SIR BENJAMIN HALE, AND THE WELSH

FORMER.

ese.- -
A. few days ago Sir Benjamin Hall, M.P., the
Frst Commissioner of Works and Public Buildings,
on a visit to his seat at Llanover, in Monmouth-
shire, presided at the annual meeting and dinner of
the Abergavenny Agricultural Association, held in
that town. There was a well-contested ploughing
snatch in the early part of the day, and an exhi-
bition of cattle and sheep, horses, implements, and
poultry. Prizes given by the Earl of Abergavenny,
Sir Benjamin Hall, and Colonel Clifford, M.P.,
were also awarded f r the best specimens of garden
culture, and for which there was a strong competi •
tion. The dinner, at which about 120 persons
were present, took place at the Angel Hotel, and
the company was composed chiefly of the neigh-
bouring gentry and farmers. The usual formal
toasts having been drunk,
Sir B. HALL said,—Having gone through the
general routine of toasts, I will now propose the
toast of the evening ; and, as it is usual on all
similar occasions for the person who fills the chair
to make some prefatory remarks in introducing the
sentiment of prosperity to the association over
which he presides, I will endeavour to make some
observations which shall be brief in character, avoid-
ing as much as possible the example set by some
other gentlemen who preside at meetings similar to
this, and endeavouring directly to confine myself
to the object in view. r shall °whew all political
observations, because they are not only distasteful
to myself, but are nei on enial_nor apposite to
the occasion which hoffebroug us together. We
have heard from the judges this evening that they
are well satisfied with the progress which this in-
stitution has made, and they have expressed their
approbation, not only of the stock and crops,
but also of the ploughing which they have
witnessed. Now, I have lived in this county
all my life, and I have a great stake and in-
terest in it. I have watched the progress of
civilisation, of manufacture, and of agriculture,
and I am quite sure that no country has made
greater advances in agriculture during my lifetime
than this. I will tell you an anecdote that I heard
my father relate very often. About 45 years
ago he endeavoured to persuade his tenantry in
the hilly district to grow turnips, that their abeep
and cattle might eat them. He was told in very
strong and emphatic language by the inhabitants of
the district that a Welsh sheep would not look at
a turnip, and would scorn to eat one. (A laugh.)
The difficulty was to overcome that prejudice and
induce the people to grow turnips in order that
their sheep might eat them and prosper more. He
took the wisest course. We are all Welshmen here,
and I should not be speaking disrespectfully—being
one of them—if I say that it is of no use whatever
to drive a Welshman. You may lead him, but it
is impossible to drive him ; and, moreover, it is
always better to use persuasion than compulsion,
and to appeal rather to a man's good sense than
endeavour to force him to do that which is con-
trary to his own wishes and prejudices. This re-
minds me that a circumstance occurred the other
day which annoyed me very much. I happened
to make a road through a part of my estate at
Abercarne, and I found there a remarkably fine
beech tree ; but its fine silvery bark had proved too
strong a temptation to the knives of the idlers, who
had inscribed their names, perhaps those of their
loves, upon the tree. It was perfectly covered with
all kinds of hieroglyphics, which offended my eye.
As to putting up a notice that mantraps or spring
guns were laid to prevent Welshmen from cutting
the tree, I knew that would be useless ; so I put
up a notice, written both in , Welsh and Eng-
lish, "None but fools will inscribe their names
upon this tree." (A laugh.) Thus appealing to
their good sense, and they not wishing to be in-
cluded in the category of fools, my tree now remains
unmolested by every gentle swain, and no rustic
Villikens has since attempted to address his Divah
by writing upon it. (Laughter.) But that is
rather a digression, and we will go back to the
turnips. My father was determined to convince
his tenants that Welsh sheep would eat turnips ;
so, on the top of a hill, on the very highest
point of his estate, he had a very fine field of
turnips. It was walled round, and a strong fence
was put on the top of the wall, with a kind of the-
vame do friss to prevent those very amiable quad-
rupeds, the Welsh sheep, from getting over and
destroying the crop. Well, the turnips grew, and
winter came ; the sheep began to flock about the
roads, and the chevaux de friss was taken down.
Over jumped the Welsh sheep—(a laugh)—and of
course in a few days the field was filled with them.
My father was apprised that this was the case? and
That was a very heinous
ten-
ants, and he put a very high price upon the dam-
ageohffe offence fdoerda alll landlord orsdheteop. commit towards his
that had been done. They complained very
much about it, but he begged to assure them that
the business did not concern them ' • that it could
not be their sheep that were pounded ; for he had it
upon the word and honour of Welshmen that their
sheep would not so much as look at a turnip. This
had the desired effect, and at last my father con-
sented to have the sheep released from the pound
upon the owners declaring that on their con-
sciences the Welsh sheep would eat turnips. (A
laugh.) That was the commencement of turnip-
growing at Abercarne. We may come to a
later date when I went partridge shooting.
didf-
fiWc u
le
tfiywan
find
one
sen d e t
oa
we
findfieldl w
always
yno
sfe
ht
aud
.r n
However,giposo,
good sport,
sbut
tht, he enf
rdwi
it
was excessively foul, and we generally knew it
more by its beautiful yellow tinge than by the
green. it ought to show ; and when we got the
partridges into the turnips we always bad better
sport, because, instead of running into the straight
lines made by the drills, they went through the
tortuous
windings of broadcast, which made it
better for us, but not so well for the farmer.
(Laughter.) Now we can find in the county as
good fields of turnips as any in Norfolk or Lincoln-
shire, owing to the stimulus given to agriculture by
societies such as these, and the desire thus created
among farmers
to compete with those in the
more favoured districts. (Cheers.) lam happy
to think that this society goes ou improving.
Although I have long been a subscriber,
this is the first time j ever had the honour
of being present at ono of these meetings ;
and it may very
naturally be asked, " Why
is it that you, a landed proprietor in the county,
and who have an
important stake in agriculture,
have not been present at these meetings before'?"
For the last three years, owing to various circum-
stances, it has been impossible for me to be present.
I allude to duties of a high character which I have
to perform ; and previously I would not attend these
meetings because I might be looked upon rather
as a black sheep in the flock. ("No, no.") Ido not
allude to this particular meeting, but there are
meetings held in the kingdom of this description,
where a person cannot enter unless he is what is
called a "farmer's friend;" that is, unless he happens
to hold some peculiar political tenets ; and as I do
not and never did hold those opinions, rather than
throw the apple of discord into the society I stayed
away from companyin which I should have been ex-
tremely happy to mix, feeling certain that the day
would arrive when all this nousence would
cease, and when political opinions would be
merged on such occasions and I should be able to
come and take my place among the farmers of this
country. (Cheers.) Although entertaining
strong
opinions on certain points, it would ill become
me to obtrude them here ; and I hope that during
the time I have been in this chair I have, by re-
fraining from so doing, set an example that will be
followed. May we never have meetings like this
obtruded upon by matters of that character, and
may the one effort be to support the toast-, " Pros-
perity to the Abergavenny Agricultural Associa-
tion." (Cheers.) At a later period of the evening
Sir Benjamin, in responding to the toast of his
health, gave a general invitation to the inspection
of his farm, and promised that Clow who came
should be supplied with every information that
Within the last •
could be given. six years he said
he had converted a desert waste into a fruitful
source of produce, and where briars and furze and
rank weeds grew they might recently have seen
corn growing in abundance, and might now see the
stacks of corn which did grow there ; and they
would see, too, as good fields of turnips as any that
had been entered for competition this year. Of
course this had been a matter of cost and thought
and toil ; but during the time when it pleased God
to visit him with a great afflictio I—during the time
he was deprived of sisht, and while he was
unable to take part in the healthful pursuits he be-
lore enjoyed—to go across the country, or stalk a
stag, or knock over a grouse--farming became his
pursuit, and had ever since been his pleasure up to
the present mti e Ana when he was relieved
from the more anxious duties which belonged to his
position it was a pleasure to come down to Llan-
Over ; and if, by means of the example he had set
he bad done any good in his sphere he was thankful
for it, and he hoped that that example, as far as it
was good, might
be followed by others and be bene-
ficial to them.
If what he had done could be made

of any avail by examination let them come and ex-
amine it by all means, and he should be happy to
see them, and explain what he hail done in de-
tail. At all events, if they did not follow his ex-
ample, they would admire the results of his system,
for they would see now a smiling farm where for-
merly there was an unsightly swamp. (Cheers.)
The meeting was also addressed by Col. Clifford,
M.P., and several of the local gentry present on
the occasion.

MR. LINDSAY AND HIS CONSTITUENTS.

TYNEMOUTH, MONDAY NIGHT.
Mr. Lindsay, M.P. for this borough, addressed
a large meeting of his constituents in the Assembly-
rooms, Albion Hotel, this evening—Mr. Alderman
Pow, chairman of the Shipowners' Society, pre-
sided.
Mr. LINDSAY was warmly received, and, after
alluding to various matters, merely. of local in-
terest, remarked that, as they were aware, there
was at the present time a great depression "in the
shipping trade. But it appeared to him there
was a better time coming. They had had
great reverses in America ; there had been
very little ship-building going on there, simply
because there was a great want of capital and
also a want of credit. It was a remarkable fact and
he had noticed it in the course of very many years
experience—that if the coal trade was depressed
within six months the shipping freights in the In-
dian trade fell ; and his reason for supposing that
the shipping trade would ba properous before tong
was, that there was little ship-building going on in
America and less in this country, while all the time
the trade of the world was going on increasing, ren-
dering an increase of the carrying trade inevitable.
(Applause.) He for one deeply regretted those re-
verses which had taken place in America ; and he
deeply regretted the system of over advances and
too great facility for credit out of which they had
arisen. He was sorry also that the system was not
confined to America. In Liverpool and Glasgow,
as well as at New York, over advances were a
great evil, because the man of industry who had
made his capital by the sweat of his brow also suf-
fered and fell in the long run with his less prudent
competitors. But they would notice that the state
of things brought with it to a certain extent itsown
remedy, and his opinion was that this tightness of
the money market would bring about a more whole-
some state of trade, in which the shipowners would
be materially benefited. One more word about
shipping, arising from some conversation he had
had with their worthy chairman. A new era in
shipping matters was very shortly expected to be
introduced by the launch of that vast ship, the
Great Eastern. If that ship answered, it became a
question how they would stand with their small
ships. It was a matter of great interest to all, but
particularly to those directly or indirectly interested
in shipping, whether the ship was likely to answer
commercially or not. He had strong opinions on
the subject commercially ; but firstdet him say she
would be a great triumph of mechanical art. He
believed no finer or stronger ship was ever put to-
gether. With regard to speed, he doubted whe-
ther she would attain to what had been stated,
though he fully believed she would attain a greater
speed than any ship over yet launched on the
waters. Our nation had reason to be proud of such
a great triumph of mechanical skill. Bat now com-
mercially—that to them was the most important
question, because if such a ship as it was answered
commercially, then all their property in shipping
must in a short time go to the wall. His expe-
rience, however, and he believed it would coin-
cide with theirs—his experience was that they had
found they had, in fact, been building their ships too
large. The Americans, who were a far-sighted
people, had discovered this fact. They said a
3,000 tons ship was too large for the ordinary pur-
poses of commerce; and it had been found that
the ship from 800 to 1,200 tons for the East India
trade, was the most profitable description of ship,
while from 1,500 to 1,800 tons was about the limit.
The course of commerce was, if a Manchester mer-
chant had a thousand bales of cotton to send to
Calcutta, he did not send the whole in one bottom,
because that might overstock the market. The
merchant did what was called feeding the market.
The same thing would hold good as to passengers.
They did not all go together or in masses, but at
intervals, to suit convenience. So for the purposes
of war, politicians found it the wisest policy to
send out their troops—not a thousand in one bot-
tom, much less 10,000 (hear, hear) ; but sent them
out in numbers of 400 or 600 at the very most.
That was the policy. Imagine, then, a whole army
sent out in this Great Eastern. He did not say
anything of the risk of a wreck, he did not contem-
plate any such fearful tragedy ; but suppose her
engines went wrong, he said it was not policy to
send so many troops ; so that, looking at the
matter both politically and according to the
ordinary course of commerce, he was of opinion
that the ships we had had nothing to fear from the
competition of those vast leviathans, such as the
Great Eastern. He now came to that question
which had caused such great excitement through-
out this country, and he might say the wcrld—the
fearful mutiny in India. Iu doing so he should go
back very shortly into a brief review of the history
of India. The hon. gentleman then briefly sketched
the origin of the East India Company and its &o-
gress from being a purely trading corporation in
1602 until its assumption of territorial power under
Lord Clive, and thence to the present time. In
extending the Indian empire as it had boon ex-
tended, be trusted those who had held tho reins of
government had fully considered the serious respon-
sibility which they took upon themselves in annex-
ing district after district to the vast extent of ter-
ritory we now had, because when a people stepped
in to assume such a power of government there
were responsibilities which could not by any means
be violated with impunity. Before assuming it,
they out to be prepared at once to govern the peo-
ple wisely and well. He famed, however, teat the
East India Company had not on all occasions go-
verned India either wisely or well. (Applause.)
He did not mean to say that the people of India
.wero not in a better position than they were when
Clive stepped in to take away part of their territory,
because at that time, and long before, India was
disturbed by the Mahommedan races and rulers.
Originally, as they were aware, India everywhere
was governed by the native Hindoo princes, and
whether the people had been better under our rule
than they were under the rule of their native
Hindoo princes was a question he was not pre-
pared to enter into. He believed they were well
governed under the Hindoo princes, because
when they looked on India they found vast re-
mains of roads, reservoirs, canals, and public
works, which bad gone to decay, but were evi-
dently constructed under the rule of the Hindoo
princes. He was sure that our government had
been more advantageous to the natives than that of
the Hindoo princes; though that it had been better
than that of Mehommedan princes he did not for a
moment doubt. But that was not the question

The question was—Had we done all we might have
done for India ?He believed we had not. He be-
lieved we had much to answer for on account of
India. He believed that though we had been draw.
ing large amounts of revenues from the people of
India we had been neglecting public works ; that
we had not been opening out canals, or adding to
the facilities of communication as we ought to have
done—that we had done much, but that we had
also left undone much that we ought to have done.
When he looked at the enormous revenue derived
from India, he askedhow much was spent in public
works. And taking Glasgow or Manchester, he
found that one of these large cities, viz , Manches-
ter, had spent more in a year in institutions for the
benefit and elevation of the people than the Court
of Directors of the East India House had done for
the whole of India in the same period. He said we
had not governed India wisely, and we had not
done it well. To him there seemed a sort of fatility
to follow this course of aggrandisement, grasping
vast extensive territory without taking the means
to govern the territory we had already. It seemed
to him it would have been much wiser had we
limited our territory and governed it better. We
were told that we had been compelled by necessity
to increase our territory, but he doubted that much,
and he thought we had taken possession of mere
territory in India than we could govern well, and
that if we had had less we would have governed
it better. India was still governe Iby a company
of traders, and the machinery was the same as in
1834, when their trading functions ceased. He
said the system of double government was not a
system to govern wisely ; and from what he bad
seen considered that there should be vast change
in the government of India. What that change
should be it would be presurop nous to a certain
extent for him to say ; but it struck him, if they
were to govern thepeople of India well, thegovern-
ment ought to be on the spot, in India itself—
(hear)--subject to the check of the House of Com-
mons. (Applause.) Mr. Lindsay then entered
into the subject of the mutiny among the sepoye.
He was for no half measures with those traitors.
He was a man of peace ; and it was said, "