The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-16 00:00:00

PUBLIC OFFICERS.

Mr. WYSE moved for a return of the names, offices,
places of birth, salaries, and ages of all persons holding
offices in the Customs, Excise, and Post•office Depart-
ments of the United Kingdom, with the dates of their
appointment, and present location. It would be unne-
cessary for him to impress on the House the importance
of the motion. The officers employed in the public de-
partments collected large sums of money, and
they were paid large sums of money. lie
admitted that there was to Email improvement

in those departments within the last ten years
He should like to see the service of the public offices'
made as much a profession as the Bar or the Church, and
examinatio.ls established to try the fitness or pei ties to
fill those offices. There were some instances in which
that system had been tried with very good effect—
in the War-office, the Excise,e and!" the Treasury.
With respect to the public' service in different parts of
the empire, he thought there ought to be some recipro-
city on the subject, that Englishmen should be employed
in England, Scotehmen in Scotland,.and Irishmen in Ire-
land. He thought it was unfair to exclude altogether the
people of one country from employment in a particular
department. •
Sir R. PEEL decidedly objected to the returns moved
for. He could not discover from the spirit of the Bight
lion. Gentleman's speech the object of the returns. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had complained that there was
not a due :proportion of Irishmen employed in the
various departments under the Government in Ireland.
The Right lion. Gentleman told the House that
the Secretary of the Post-office in Ireland was
not an Irishman. But, then, the Secretary to the
Post-office in Scotland was an Irishman.—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) The Right Honourable
Gentleman complained that the gentleman at the head
of the police in Ireland was not an Irishman. But he
(Sir R. Peel) would remind the Right Hon. Gentleman
that when it became his (Sir R. Peel's) duty to appoint
two gentlemen to superintend the operation of the New
Police Act, and to govern the police force, he ap-
pointed two Irishmen.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
He thought not of Englishmen, of Irishmen, or of
Scotchmen, but of the two best men he mild find for the
duty to be performed, and he appointed two Irishmen,
desiring no credit for such appointment. Now suppose
some Epglishman were to make a similar motion with
respect to recent appointments in China, what would
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wyse) say to it? Who
was the Pleniopentiary in China'? Sir H. Pottinger,
an Irishman ?—(Hear, hear.) Wlo was the commander
of the troops in China? Sir Hugh Gough, an Irishman.
—(Hear, hear.) But who thought of complaining of
these appointments, or of asking any questions as to
them, or their country, or their birth? Again, whom
have they selected for the chief command ;:in India ?
Sir Hugh Gough.—(Hear, hear.) But what was the
purpose of the Right Hon. Gentleman had in view in
asking for these returns ; He asked for the names and
places of birth of all the persons employed in the Excise,
Customs, Post-office and Revenue Police of Ireland—
but for what earthly purpose he (Sir Robert Peel) was
at a loss even to guess. How many persons should the
House suppose were employed in these several establish-
ments ? It the Customs there were 11,000 im-
ployed ; in the Excise 6,000 persons; in the Post-
office 3,000 persons ; the. Revenue Police,
2,000 : -total, 22,000 persons. And of these 22,000 per-
sons, the Right Hon. Gentleman wanted the age, ap-
pointment, and he (Sir R. Peel) knew not what besides.
And when he had got them, who was there in
the House that would move the printing of them ?
If the Honourable Gentleman thought that injustice had
been done in any particular case, let him specify that
case, and call for inquiry ; but he must protest against
such a motion as the present. He could not sanction
any such principle. He did not believe that when any
person was called upon to appoint am individual to a
public office any inquiry was even made as to what
was the place of that individual's birth.—(Cheers.)
He did not believe that the circumstance of any man's
being born in Ireland would create the slightest preju-
dice against him. They were about to call upon 22,000
persons to state the localities of their birth—he had
shown that such a returm would lead to the most erroe
neous inferences being drawn, but it was not upon that
ground that he opposed it. lle thought it was not right
in the House to sanction the principle upon which this
motion was founded.—(Cheers.) We were all subjects of
the same Swerein, were all united in the enjoyment of
the same rights and privileges, and we ought not to ad-
mit any distinctions as to the locality birth. On that
ground, he opposed the motion.
Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH contended that all
the chief appointments in every department were gii en
to Englishmen and Scotchmen.
Sir R. PEEL—the last appointment to the United
States:—(Cheers,)

Mr. F. FRENCH did not deny that some Irishmen
were appointed to situations of authority, but he still
declared that in all the higher situations in England and
Ireland were filled by English and Scotchman. Of 80,0001
a year paid to heads of departments in Ireland. 60,000/.
was paid to Englishnaen and Scotchmen. He believed
that the same disproportion prevailed in the appointment
of inferior officers, and the report sought for would shew
whether he was right or wrong. He did not want the
testing "22,000 names, but the Right Hon. Gentleman
could give a return of the different clerrks and officers,
which would show whether he was right or wrong
Ho had been told that they were not Three per cent of
Irishman among them. The Right Hon. Gentleman
said there was no opportunity of making these returns.
The same reply had been made 1)3. the Secretary to the
Admiralty to him (Mr. F. French), when he had moved
for a similar return respecting the Navy: He believed
such a return could be made and that "it
would show that of the hundred appointment ,which
Had been made by Lord Haddington, not one had been
given to an Irishman.—(Hear.) He thought his Hon.
Friend was entitled to the return, and he regretted the
refusal of the Government.

Mr. lIUME felt reluctantly obliged to oppose the
motion. Everything that tended to keep up the na-
tional distinctions between England, Ireland, and Scot-
land, was wrong, and on that ground he opposed the
motion. The return•with respect to naval officers would
lead to most unjust and unfair inferences. It was not
the disposition of the Irish to go to sea, and conse,
quently, the proportion of Irish naval officers was
small as compared with Englishmen and Scotchmen.
He thought the motion would be attended with un-.
pleasant and bad results, and he trusted, therefore, that
his Right Hon. Friend would withdraw it.

Sir L. NAPIER said, that in that portion of the ser-
vice with which he was best acquainted, he did not be-
lieve any questions were asked, about country. The
question was who had gat most interest.—(Laughter.)
He believed the reason why there were not mere Irish-
men appointed, was that they had not as much interest
as others.

After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON,
Mr. V. STUART said that the motion of his Right
Hon. Friend at least showed there was a strong feeling
that Irishmen did not get that fair share of patronage
to which they were entitled. He trusted that, in the
future distribution of patronage, a fair proportion, not
only of the higher offices, but of the minor appointments,
would fall to Irishmen.—(Hear, hear.)

Mr. WYSE having replied, the motion was uegalived
without a division.

INCOME-TAX.

Mr. WYSE then moved fora return of the amount of
Irish income which is assessed to the Property-tax in
Great Britairi, distinguishing the amount charged under
each schedule. He should not go into any details, but
simply move for the return.
Sir E. PEEL said that the papers already printed
stated that there were no returns which would enable the
Commissioners to furnish the information required.
Mr. WYSE under those circumstances would with-
draw the motion.

ANATOMY ACT.

Mr. Alderman COPELANI) moved for an address
to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously
pleased to lay before this House, a copy of all Commis-
sions, with the names of the Commissioners, appointed
to inquire into the working of the Anatomy Act, and
also into the official conduct of any inspector or in-
spectors of schools of anatomy for England, Scotland, and
Wales ; with the dates of each commission, and Reports
(if any) of evidence taken by the said Commissioners.
Mr. P. BORTH WICK seconded the motion.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that this was a subject not only
of great delicacy, but, as it appeared to him, unsuited to
discussion in a popular assembly. With respect to the
Anatomy Act, his experience in the office of the Home
Department had confirtned him in his opinion of the
successful working of the measure. Indeed, its quiet
and silent operation was the best test of its
usefulness. He would remind the Honourable
Gentleman, that previous to the enactment of
that measure, there was hardly a Churchyard within a
hundred miles of the metropolis, where the sanctity of
the grave was not violated, and the state of the church-
yard was such as to render human life in the neighbour-
hood quite insecure. He had had a quarterly return
made to him, which it was his duty to inspect, and, like
all his predecessors, he could answer for its accuracy.
Some irregularities bad from time to time been brought
under the notice of the Secretary of State. Commis-
sions of inquiry had ben issued, evidence had been
taken ; reports had in some. instances been made,
in others it had been thought better to confine the

information to the Secretary of State. If any
subject could with advantage be left to the public, this
could. He did not ask for a blind confidence ; but
it NV as notorious that the evils which this Act
of Parliament was passed to remedy had disap-
peared. The schools of anatomy were sufficiently and
regularly supplied ; all outrages on public decency were
avoided ; and it was his opinidn that the greatest
possible inconvenience would wise from the pro:
duction of the reports to which the Hon.
Gentleman's motion was directed ; and he hoped, there-
fore, that the House would support him in refusing the
Hon. Gentleman's motion.

Mr. FRENCH said, that when he brought forward
a motion on this subject some years ago, he
was met by a statement that it was under the considera-
tion of the Commissioners. If they had maintained the
delicacy which the Right Hon. Gentleman wished them
to maintain, they would not have procured the retire-
ment of Dr. Sutherland.—(Hear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Baronet had affixed the epithet " noxious agita-
tion" to a motion brought forward by a supporter of the
Government.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM—I did not use the words.

(LEFT SITTING.)

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