The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-16 00:00:00

such district hereafter to be constituted within five years
from the date of the licence of the minister first licensed
thereto, and this notwithstanding that any such dis
trict may have become a new parish by virtue of the
provisions of the Act under which such district was con-
stituted."

Mr. S. HERBERT then moved 19 clauses, having re-
ference to the holding benefices with the cure of souls
by deans, canons reldentlary, the residence of the same,
the augmentation of canonries, the establishment of pas-
toral colleges, &c. He did not intend that all the re-
solutions which he proposed should be applicable to
every dean and chapter, but he would give them a choice
in selecting those by which they were to be re-
gulated. It had been an evil which had been felt in the
Church for some time throughout England, that every
day the number of small cures was increasing. The
number of these small cures not exceeding 1501. a year
was increasing. It was of great importance that they
should have men of elevated minds in the ministry, and
if a lower class of persons were encouraged to enter the
Church as in other countries, they would be doing a
great injury to the cause of religion and morality. He
had in making these propositions adhered strictly to the
provisions of the old statutes. It had been asked, if

that were the case, why should he go to the House of
Commons to carry out his viewe ? He had consulted
legal authority upon his propositions, and he hal lea-ned
that the statutes in question were so old that their pro-
visions could not be brought into vigour. 'The Noble
Lord might toll him that his clauses were a Bill in them-
selves, and ought to be brought in as a separate mea-
sure; but the Noble Lord knew very well the difficulty
a private Member laboured under in bringing in a mea-
sure of that importance. He therefore :rusted the Go-
vernment would give every fair consideration to his
clauses, and he would then conclude by moving the first
of them.
Sir G. GREY said the Hon. Gentleman himself had
anticipated the objections which might be made to his
chases. That Bill had come down from the House of
Lords with a certain number of clauses; but the Hon.
Member proposed to add no less than 19 to it. These
clauses might be very important, and the Hon. Gentle-
man asked them to agree to them, and add them to a
Bill which had no connexion whatsoever with the same.
No doubt these clauses ought to be the subject of a
separate Bill, and no doubt were deserving of separate
and distinct consideration. It was quite clear that
many of the clauses could not be adopted in their pre-
sent state, however worthy of consideration, and, there-
fore, he trusted the Hon- Gentleman had only introduce I
them in order that they might be fully considered by the
House.

➢ir. GLADSTONE would wish to hoer a more defi-
nite assurance from the
_Government of their opinion

upon those clauses that had been given. It had been
said that a certain reform had taken place in the Church
i❑ 1840. He denied that it was any reform. Excepting
the case of the archdeacons, hovvever, they had not

effected any practical reform. The objection, then
was, that there were large emoluments to large
bodies of men with no duties. Well, they had re-
duced the number of the men, but they had not
made any proportionate reduction in the emo-
luments with respect to the duties for those who re-
mained. Thus the evil had remained.—(Hear, hear.)
It was impossible to say bow immense was the difficulty
of calling the attention of Parliament to the subject, and
putting a plan of reform into a practicable shape. The
queition could not be brought on except at the close of
the session, and it was then difficult to get the House to
give their mind to the consideration of the practical de-
tails of the proposed reform. The only objection to the
series of clauses proposed by his Right Hun. Friend was,
that the rights of patronage would be affected; but then
tl.at objection was more apparent than real. The reform
that had taken place in 1840 was no reform at all. The
system was, in tact, made more absurd and anGmalous

than before. The real salutary principle of annexing
duties to these high preferments had been recognised
but had not becin fully acted upon, and until that prin-
ciple was fully carried out—until those anomalies had
been rectificd—they woukl not have carefully attended
to the interests of the Church, and to the noble
princip:es on which our cathedral establishmants were
founded.

AGLIONBY pointed out one part in which he
considered the clauses wt.uld not be sufficiently operative.
Mr. J. STUART considered the reasons assigned by
the Government for not alopting the additions were
meagre, alight, and unsatisfactory. The reaso❑ assigned,
that the clauses might be embodied in a separate Act,
was not a valid argument for rejecting them. They
were essential fur the interests of the Church, and ought
to be adopted.

Sir B. HALL considered that the propositions of the
Hon. Gentleman would go far to effect the desirable ob-
ject of making the Church more useful and respected.
There was a scheme fur dividing populous parishes pro-
mised by Government, and this scheme was so good and
so essential that the Government ought to have given it
attention before this. He wished t) know whether Go-
vernment intended to propose a scheme early in the e 1-
suing session for dividing certain large parishes, and
also whether a scheme of a similar sort had no been
prepared this session, but not brought forward. He
hoped the Government would say why. He cordially
thanked the Right 11,-)n. Gentleman for the additional
clauses which he had brought forward.

Mr. P. WOOD said the—Hon. Member for Montrose
had fairly stated his wish that deans and canonries
should be abolished, but he hoped Government had no
such intention or wish. The deans and canonries were
formerly collegiate bodies, but in course of time they had
lost their duties, and had dwindled down into mere offices
of large emolument. Now, he hoped the Government
would take this circumstance into consideration, and be
induced to acknowledge the expediency of joining duties
to those offices, so that they should no longer be mere
sinecures. He hoped Government would bring forward
some scheme which would do away with the present
abuses of the cathedral and canonry system. When Go-
vernment were about this reform, it would be a good
opportunity to take into consideration the increase of the
episcopate. Indeed the whole question might then be
fully and completely considered.
Mr. HUME would recommend those Hon. Gentlemen
who wished to re-establish these large collegiate and ca-
thedral institutions to recollect the different circum-
stances of the country now to what they were when
these institutions were established. He was sure if ca-
thedral establishments were re-established in all their
magnitude and grandeur that the interests of the Church
would suffer, and he further declared that be was cer-
tain the people would not endure them. He recommen3ed
the abolition of all sinecures in the Church Establish-
ment as the best means of securing the interests of the
Church.

Mr. HENLEY did not think the clauses, as proposed,
would effect the objects which their proposer and sup-
porters appeared to consider to be so desirable. The
operation of such a set of clauses would really effect that
which the Hon. Member for Montrose wished to see—
namely, the abolition of these bodies altogether. Such,
at least, would be the effect of these clauses as he read
them. He regretted that a measure of this great import-
ance had not been introduced in a separate Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the Hon. Member
for Oxford, when he found fault with the Bill of 1840,
had nut recollected the object of the Ecclesiastical Com-
mission, which was to provide for spiritual de,titution
by funds obtained from a diminution of the canonries.
He doubted very much whether the scheme proposed by
the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member f)r Wilts would
be found to answer its purpose. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman proposed that a clergyman holding a canonry
should not hold a living, except within the cathedral
city. That might answer in populous places, like West-
minster; but ho doubted whether it would answer
throughout the country generally.
Mr. S. HERBERT, in answer to the remark of the
Hon. Member for Montrose, denied that his plan was to
restore all the old cathedral establishments quite the
contrary. He was glad he had called the attention of
the House to the subject.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the clauses ... 84
Against them ... ... 104
Majority against them .. ••• —2O
The Bill was then ordered to be reported.
The report on the resolution for a monument to Sir R.
Peel was brought np and agreed to.
The Militia Ballots Suspension Bill, the Loan Sock-
tiesi Bill, and the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Bill, were
read a third time and passed.
The Poor Relief Bill, as amended, was considered
and ordered to be read a third time on Friday, at twelve
o'clock.

Court of Chancery.
Turnpike Roads (Ireland).
Police and Improvement (Scotland).
Swansea Municipal Corporation.
Reading Cattle Market.
Bohan Improvement.
Dundee, Perth, and Aberdeen Railway Junction.
Cambridge Regulation, Improvement, Markets, and Fairs.
East and West India Docks and Birmingham Junction
Railway.
South Yorkshire, Doncaster, and Goole Railway Amend
ment,
York and North Midland Railway.
Montrose Harbour.
South Walas Railway (Capital).
Dublin and Drogheda Railway.
Snaith and Cowiek Union of the Townships, &c.
Croydon and Reigate Turnpike Road.
Stourbridge Union Rates.
Swansea Dock Company.
Victoria Len;lon Dock.
Pontypridi Gaslight and Coke Company.
York, Newcastle and Bernick Railway Arrangements, &c.
Norwich Water Works.
Eastern Union Railway.
London City Improvements.
North Staffordshire Railway (Extension of Time).
South Yorkshire, Doncaster, and Goole Railway Amend-
ment, &c.
South Staffordshire Railway.
Kent Waterworks.
Southampton Waterworks.
Waterford and Kilkenny Railway.
Great Northrn Railway Deviations, &c.
Herons) ke and Ramat- bridge Turnpike Road.
Ulvers'one, Millthorpe, and Lancaster Turnpike Road.
Tyne Navigation.
Tewkesbury- and Severn-bridge Thad and Amendment.
11Ionrnouihshire Turnpike Raads.
Reading Union Waterworks.
Cardiff Waterworks.
Edinburgh Slaughterhouses Removal.
Garstaug and Heiring Syke Turnpike 112 a I.
Prussian Ministers' Residence.
Brigstocke's (or Player's) Estate.
Cathrow's (or Briand's) E,tate.
Fleetwood's Estate; and.
Cautley's Divorce.
The Lords Commissioners were the Marquis of
Lansdowne, the Earl of Minto, and Lord Eddisbury.
Their Lordships then adjoured during pleasure.
Their Lordships resumed shortly &ter Five o'clock.
The LORD CHANCELLOR (Baron Truro) took his seat
on the; Woolsack.
-VESTRIES AND VESTRY CLERKS BILL.
Lord BIi3OUGHAII moved the second reading of this
Bill.—Agreed to.

year 1847. Under those circumstances, he believed he
was justified in repeating an assurance which had-bt,en
made to him on good authority—namely, that that agi-
tation was a failure. In confirmation of that stated:eat,
he alight reret to the reports of the factory inspectorA;
and he hoped he should not be told that those reports
could not be relied on because they had been written by
Government officers. For his part, he believed that if
any accusation had ever been made against these gen-
tlemen, who stool so high fur intelligsecaAnd character,
it was not that they heti been too subservient to the
millowners, but, in their zaal to proteCt the rights of the
operatives, they had sometimes been disposed to forget
the just claims of those by whona 'the operatives were
employed. Ha found 'Mr. Leonard Horner writing
thus:—
"The plan which you have recently brought forward
for putting an end to that system, if not uu'versally ap
proved, has been received with great satisfaction by a
large majority of all those interested in the question, so
far as I have had an opportunity of judging from per-
sonal inquiries and from the opluions given to me by
the five sub-inspectors in my district as the result of
their inquirie;. The merit of the plan chiefly dwelt
upon is, that by limitation of the factory day to 12 hours,
from six o'clock to six, out of which the hour and a
half for meals must be given, it will secure a uniformity
in the hours of is ork in all mills, an far as concerns the
employment of young persons and wom,:n. It is an
early stopping in the evening that the workpeople chiefly
value; and if the free evening hours from six to nine be
secureil, the great object sought for by the Ten Hours
Act will be attained; for then the factory-workers will
be in what may be called the normal state of the ope-
ratives in the generality of trades, and will, like them,
have leisure for domestic arrangements, for improving
themselves by attending evening; schools, with opportu-
nities for healthful and reasonable recreations. The in-
tended general stepping of the mills at two o'clock on
Saturdays has given especial satisfaction; and it will
prove, I doubt not, a great source of comfort and advan-
ta,c,e to the workpeople and their families."
Captain Kineard said—

The Bills of Exchange Bill passed through Committee,
as did al,o the Stock-in-trade Bill, and the Turnpike
Acts Continuance, &c., Bill.
POPULA.TION BILL.

On the question that the Population Bill be read a
third time,

Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to know whether any
arrangement had been made for the provision of a better
occupation abstract than had hitherto been given. In
the last abstract the whole proprietary body were to-
tally omitted, and not one London proprietor was
named?

"It is my be:ief that the proposed Government measure
will produce generally the most satisfectory settlement
of the question that could have been devised; for, ex-
cepting in the woollen districts, the increase of which, as
I have already shown, will bo peculiarly affected by the
proposed measure, and among the owners of other mills
that aro worked by relays, and who must naturally be
averse to the change, my own observations, as well as
the information of the sale inspectors, lead me to believe
that the proposed Government measure will be hailed by
the mass with great satisfaction."
Then Mr. Saunders stated—
" The evils which leave resulted from the state in
whic'n the law has unhappily been so long left, have
been, it is hoped, sufficient to insure a legislative decision
on the subject during the present session of Parliament;
and I have the satisfaction of stating that the principle
on which the Bill now lecf ire Parliament has been
framed, has given great and general satisfaction. There
are partial obVvtimas, some of which may, in the pro-
gress of the Bill through Parliament, be rem )ved; but
it is earnestly to be desired nothing may interfere to
delay carrying the main features of the Bill into enact."
Then these gentlemen united, including
Mr. Hewitt,
from whom he had not quoted, added
"The Bill now heore Parliament for defining the dura-
tion of the factory working day contains valuable provisions
and we anticipaae considerable assistance from it in our
efforts to obtain a uniform observance of the law. The
abridgment of the working day within the ordinary
limits of twelve hours, including the prescribed intervals
for meals, and the curtailment of the afternoon labour of
Saturdays, appear to us a very advantageous arrange-
ment. We hope that this amending Bill is calculated
to allay the excitement which has existed for so long a
period in the manufacturing districts, by removing
many serious impediments to the full tic eernplishment
of the objects of the Legailature in limiting the hours
f the labour of young persons and women employed in
factories."

Those were the opinions of the factory inspectors, and
he trusted they would have due weight with their Lord •
Ships. Some amendments had been proposed in the
Bill to which her Majesty's Government could not con-
sent ; far in their opinion it would be unfair in an ar-
rangem ut of that kind to deprive the mil,o ?mere
of the very small advantage which was held out to
them in the measure. If their Lordships should
determine on defeating that arrangement he was sorry
to say that it would be impossi,ole for her Majesty's
Government to take any further charge of the Bill. Ho
could not deny that they would then feel it their duty
to abandon the measure. They all know what great
attention the Noble Duke opposite had paid to the
promotion of the interests of the agricultural classes,
and he would venture to say that there was no point to
which the Noble Duke had paid more atten ion, or upon
which he deserved greater credit for his persevering ex-
ertions, than the maintenance of a harmonious feeling
between the different classes engaged in agriculture—
the landowners, the tenant-farmers, and the labourers.
Now, he entreated the Noble Duke to adopt a similar prin-
ciple in dealing with the present subject, and to weigh very
seriously the consequences which would occur if they
were to abandon that Bill, and to give up the only oppor-
tunity they could hope to have of getting the groat majo:ity
of the millowners cheerfully to eJ-operate with them in
carrying out the regulations of the Factory Act. He be-
lieved that by rjecting the measure they would a,•ld
enormoudy to the agitation at present being carried on,
and that they would create a source of interminable dis-
putes between the millowners and the factory operatives.
fie believed that they would bo opening in this country
those perplexing questions the rights of capital and the
rights of labour, and would be doing more than they
could do by any other measure to array the labourer
and the capitalist in opposition to each other. The in-
terests of those two classes might be fairly considered as
identical, and any measure which could place them in a
hostile attitude towards each other would inflict on both
of them incalculable injury.—(Hear.)
The Earl of HARR° WI3Y said he did not mean to
enter upon that occasion into any of these general
questions of political economy which were involved in
the subject, 'rho only point they had then to
consider was, to what extent their interterenco with
the hours of labour in factories should go ? Ile believed
that the parties interested in that measure were
moat anxious that it should not be altogether defeated,
however much they might wish for certain alterations in
its cleaile. lie had risen for the purpose of proposing
that in the enuan ration of parties who should not be
employed at any hour but between six in the morning
and .ix in the evening children should be included. He
could not conceive why that proposal should not be
adopted, as the protection of children was the main
object of their legislation upon that subject. Under the
employed at an earlier hour than six in the morning or
Young' persons and females could not be
Bill as it stood
at a liter hour than six in the evening; and the result
of their passing the measure in that shape would be to
give a stimulus to master menufaeturers to make use of
the labour of children before and after the hours
fixed for the labour of females and young persona.
New, under such an arrangement, children might
throught tray
be detained for two or three hours after ther mothers
or young relatives could have left the mills ; and
in that case those children might have to tra-
Tvehle childrenhem home alone
in euldthan
~,
dark
be andb
reduced dreary
to
a nights.orse
position than any in which they had heretofore been
placed. He hoped that their Lordships would adopt
the emend went which he proposed, and by that means
prevent the harsher class of millowners from employ.
ing children at hours when their kinder and more
considerable competitors could Lever wish to compel
them to work. Under those circumstances he begged
leave to move in the tenth line that before the
words " young person," the words " no child " shall be
inserted.

Mr. C. LEWIS said the census would not be taken
till the latter end of March next, and there would be
ample time to prepare a proper scheme for making the
abstract.

After a few remarks from Mr. HENLEY,
The Bill was read a third time, and passed.
The Population (Ireland) Bill was also read a third
e and passed.

The Upton-cum-Chalvey Marriages Validity Bill
passed through Committee.
The Highway Rates Bill was read a second time.
The Public-houses (Scotland) Bill was ordered to be
read a second time that day six months.
Mr. SOTHERON pestponed the Friendly Socities
Bill until next Friday.
The Cruelty to Animals (Scotland) Bill was read a
second time.
The Committee on the Engines for Taking Fish (Ire-
land) Bill was postponed till this day.
MARRIAGES BILL.

Mr. S. WORTLEY moved that this Bill do pass.
Mr. GOULBURN was not disposed to offer any fur-
,her opposition to it.
The Bill then passed.
The House adjourned at a Quarter past One.

Earl GRANVILLE said he felt compelled to oppose
the amendment of the Noble Earl, because the object
of that measure was merely to remedy an error in a
former Act of Parliament, and ho did not think that in
endeavouring to accomplish that. object they ought to
attempt to deal with an' entirely different portion of the
question. In his opinion it would be a great hard-
ship to millowners to prevent them from employing
children except at the hours stated by the Noble Lord,
for the result of that arrangement would be practically
to impose a complete limiwien in the use of adult
labour.

Lord KINNAIRD supported the amendment, which
he thought in no way inconsistent with the general
objects of the Bill.
Lord STANLEY said he wished to state the reasons
why he could not support that amendment. He con-
curred in the observations of the Noble Earl opposite
(Earl Granville), that the object of that Bill was to re-
assert a principle which had been defeated by a technical
error in the Bills of 1844 and 1847; and it was on that
account that he should refuse his assent to the proposal
then under their Lordships' consideration, while he was
prepared to support the amendment of which his Noble
Friend the Noble Duke near him (the Duke of Rich-
mond) had given notice. There was a broad distinction
between the case of young pi rsons and women. and the,
case of children. He should first, however, observe
that his Noble Friend on the cross-benches (the Earl of
Ilarrowby) and the Noble Lord who had just spoken
seemed to have confounded two things entirely distinct
—namely, the system of relays and the system of shifts.
The great objection to the system of shifts was, that
under its operation, young persons and women, sl-
thongh not worked more than tea hours a day,
would be practically deprived of tte benefits intended
for them by the Acts of 1844 and 1847, inasmuch as
they would be kept waiting about the mills during
several hours, which could be productive to them neither
of profit nor of amusement. But in the case of children
no such evil could arise, because children could not be
worked more than six hours and a half each day, and
those children who had bi en worked before dinner could
not bo worked after dinner, while those children who
were to be worked after dinner could not be worked
before it. his Noble Friend seemed to think that the
relay system was en abuse. But he (Lord Stanley) had
never heard it talked of as all abuse; on the contrary,
the relay system had been contemplated in the Acts of
1844 and 1847; nay more, it had been. provided for in
,ta9rgtiodellt relatives.
the case of children, because unless it was adopted the
whole work of the mills should be !tipped
taot,tthhleeexpi-
ration, not of tenwaloisrts,asibduet. c.ifTs.hiex honoiyurrseaasnodriawhliaielhf.
For ore set of children onec of the day was set
aside; and for the other set of children the remaining
half of the day
his Noble Friend ball advanced in favour of his proposal
lone, without
Id compelled
afford
1847.
facto-
riescgna st
tt
„hr
aa
to
tt
e leaveirc u m childrentsi
t,er
ci might
ovt
13 but a very
weak argument for introducing n. very liesvy adcli sole
restriction on the p-.vvcr of employing labour Lictorie.q
110 did not ICA POsf! such a resttmtion, which h-a-d.
never been contempl.qcd in the A( f 1844 •:,nd
motion of
and, ho repnate•, that 11., should, therefore, give h,:
vote against that smendment.
14,,rd HARNOLIFFE, who was almost inaudible
in the gallery, was understood to support the
the Noble Earl (flarrowby). lie contended that the

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JULY l6, 1850.

(erred to en important meeting of delegates from Lanca-
shire, Yorkshire, and other places, who had resolved- to
petition the !loute of Lords in favour of the proposition
contained in the amendment. He contended that the
manufacturers would adopt the relay system now in-
s'e ad of the shift system. He announced his iatimtion of
dividing the Cjusmit.tee on his amendment.
The Bishop of OXFORD said there was one view of
rho case which he wished to present to the Noble Lord
(Lori Stanley), which he seemed to have overlooked.
It was said that the whole of the important principle of
legislation by which they wore to be gelded was a desire
to keep faith with the working-classes. The Noble Lord's
objectien to that amendment was that it would infringe the
compact entered into with the working classes. Now he
(the ashop of Oxford) thought it was all the other way.
Technically speaking that was a new boon which they
were about to bestow; but, taking many things into
consideration, it was not so; for that Act crave 1 new
evil, for childron, and philosophical statesmanship re-
quired that when an evil was inflicted upon any par-
ticular class an attempt should be made to produce a
counterbalancing good. They were now creating a new
condition with the various terms of their own agree-
ment. The highest principle—that of keeping faith with
the operatives—required that they should introduce a
coutiterbalancing change. When thy !Awned to be
keeping their compact they were violating it in the most
important particular. When they were creating a new
evil they ought to preserve their compact by introducing
into it the means of counteracting its effects.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
Contents
Non contents ...
Majority ...
On our return to the gallery,
The Duke of RICHMOND was moving the amend.
merit of which he had given notice. He had heard with
some considerable astonishment that it was the invention
of the Government to give up the Bill if he carried his
amendment. But ho could relieve his Noble Friends
from all difficulty on that subject, for ho would
take charge of the Bill himself--(Heir, hear)—in their
Lordships' House, and he would get his Noble Friend
Lord J. Manners, to do the same by it in the House of
Commons.—(Elear, hear.) He would tell their Lord-
ships not to be alarmed lest the Bill might be lon for
want of some person to take charge of it.—(Hear, hear.)
He could assure their Lordships that ho was
actuated by no party or political motives in bring-
ing for ward the amendment of which he had
giv..m notice. But he could not but feel that a great
portion of their subjects, the operatives employed in
factories, came before them to ask, not any favour of
their Lordships, but to maintain inviolable the provisions
of the Act of 1847.—(Rear.) He asked their Lordships
to make no change; he did not ask them to sanction
any interference in the hours of labour, excepting as
they were intended to be regulated by st, stute. He
asked them to advocate no principle; hut he called upon
them to do in their public capacity that which in their
private capacities they would not for a single instant
hesitate to perform.—(Hear.) He asked them not to
break faith with a large p irtion of their follow.country-
mon—(Hear, hoar)—the factory operatives, who,, after
a struggle of between 20 and .10 years, obtained a Ten
Hours Act, which they considered the great charter of
their liberties. The operatives told them that the Act
of Parliament they had intended to give had certain pro-
visions; and it was not until after a certain decision had

... 58
... -33

been come to in the Court of Exchequer that a
flaw had been discovered in the Act of 1844,
of which a fir( manufacturers sought to t Bic
advantage. That very censurable system—the shift
system—had been then introdueeo. Ha would ti,k the
1.:;oble Lords opposite, if the decision of the Court hal
been in favour of the operatives, would coy one
venture to propose the repeal of that law for the
diminution of labour waiah they hal given the opera-
tives?—(Hear.) He would ask them, as upright, ho-
nourable, honest men, could they take advantage of their
osva hobos?—(Hear.) it was said that a certain com-
promise was to be entered into with the millowners.
But that was not doing justice to the operzitives. He
would ask, had there been anything in their conduct

:11 since,nehrt
el
yt
it)
aeie themP
trycsateioninvdge tid)ohofet
theth the
justice
ootAiuoCncEeet
soN which
with.
f lB47:gahral theyaimuhle
nec,nth,hoaawwndoistucshl
showed
themselves ogn die-
entitle
d?i-
themselves worthy of it. Ile would not put that ques-
tion as one of expediency, he would put it on the
ground cf keeping faith with a great body of these men,
humble indeed in station, but honest and loyal, and most
worthy the boon they had given. He would not, then, tres-
pass on their Lardships by reading any extracts from the
reports of inspectors or others, but all the information
1 which they had showed that the system had worked
well—that the social and moral condition ef the opera-
fee add his wife and children was much improved.
Instead of going to the beer-houses, as they used for-
merly atter their long day's labour in the factory, they
now were found working in their little gtrdens. The
medical gentlemen told them that the health of the ope-
ratives was much improved. When every thing was
going on in a most satisfactory manner, he would ask
where was the cause of any change? The operatives
told them that they were much happier than before; that
their wives were much more cheerful, and their children
much better brought up. In moving that amendment,
the effe et of which was to limit the hours of labour in
factories to tea hours per diem, to lessen the number of
hours per week by two hours, and carry out really the
Bill of 1847, he was by no means desirous of attacking
the manufacturers of this country. He thought in a
pecuniary point of view they would not be losers.
They would find that the waste work would be very
much diminished. Ia the great towns of this country
an attempt was made to abuse them through the means
of reckless demagogues. They ought to show the
great towns of this country, the inhabi!aerts of the
manufacturing districts, and the public at large,
that they were ready to hold the scales of justice
with a steady hand for the humblest as well as the most
opulent—the most lowly as well as the highest in the
land.—(Hear.) Knowing that there were several Noble
Lards more conversant with the subject, and who no
doubt wished to address their Lordship, he should say
no more on the present occasion.
The question having been put,
Earl GrRANVILLE thought the case had not been
stated fairly. The Noble Lord had laid great stress on
the as3,ertion that the Bill as it stood would deprive the
operatives cf the benefits of the Act of 1847, but he
could not agree to that assertion. He opposed the
amendment.
The Bishop of RIPON raid he had formerly been a
fallow-labourer of Lord Ashley in favour of aT. it
El ears Bill, and that Noble Lord must pardon him if
he continued still in favour of such a measure.—( Rear,
hear.) It aught to be a great encouragement to all
those who supported the former Bill that the prognos-
tications which had been uttered as to the evil conse-
quences which would follow its passing had been f dsi-
tied, while the benefits of it had exceeded the most
sanguine expectations of its supporters.—(Hear, hear.)
in almost every parish in his diocese meetings of opera-
tives bad been held in favour of the Ten Hours Bill, at
which not one voice had been raised against it.— (Hear,
hear.) The Right. Rev. Prelate here re ferred to a re-
port of Mr. Homer to show the beneficial effects,
physical as well as moral, of the Ten Hours Bill. He
could of his own knowledge speak of the effect it had had
in educational matters, for in the parish of Leeds 100
night schools had been opened for the factory children.
—(Hear, hear.) He denied there was any necessity for
a compromise on this question, and maintained that the
object cf the Ten Hours Act was to protect the opera-
tive against the relay system.—(Hear, hear.) If the
present Bill passed it would very much shako the faith
of the onpratives in the honour and integrity of the
Legislature.—(hear, hear.)
Lord WODEIIOUSE thought their Lordships would
act very unwisely if they refused to pass this Bill, and
for that reason he should vote against the amendment.
Lord FEVERSHAM assured the Noble Lord who
had just spoken that if he went to the manufacturing dis-
tricts of Yorkshire and Lancashire be would find the
fe,,lings of the operatives to be very much against this
measure, and in favour of n Ten Hours Bill. There
could be no doubt of the feelings of the operatives on
the subject. The Ten Hours Committee of Leeds peti•
tioned that the addition of two hours and a half per
week to the hours of labour would be grossly unjust,
and would create the greatest discontent. A petition
from the operatives of Bradford prayed for an efficient
Ten Hours Bill, and stated that the present Bill was not
just, and would not be acceptable. He sincerely hoped
their Lordships would not deprive the operatives of the
mistakes
Lt,groh ert
eaedsnws
hhhibenefitsopotlsuoe,
rbossofut wfi
suppose
ahpt
oehoh
rneseeeevyt
necessary
thedahheeseaastnedotaacceaarrl
ehalydds
utewheeasfrtheci,
for
allusion
anrvfaanfeadet
tstdidhstarameoecl from
hsehodiohatdeeemt
oyaeAl t
settlement
ot
itthehbTthhe:eettianntAdacumtl omou frri
moral
al 1846. t
oinlim-
provementl
had been tried in Pennsylvania, and had been found
l
itv
roe°
Inlci.obne
idnegc conduce
of
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He
e
been
t.
aha
the
It
tap
mpmwoe
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dea
Earl GREY had no intention of addressing their
whenr
the Bill was in that
of the Factories Act. It was not until 1
eatBndpo4:4it
on—hfee
votedaiti
prht iledem gat
c,
chi
ofeheonsinri.
se
also now supported this measure
iHswti
because. ioot
a ao sin
aodhmdeci odolrBue4glt
Bd:rsa
io.eorinldi
ou,
operatives
ict
adr:t
oneoai
rdanrt
w ket
iryse we et
or e
continue
ti
neade to
wo makea
working
o fnocre sa-
tti4oinfi.ed
Tinhtehfaatetory
machi-
ne ry, compel
certain time. Besides, if they adopted the amendment,
they would put an end to legislation daring this session,
and thus leave unsettled a question which must bo
source of great discontent for the next few months. As
to tlle inspectors, they all agreed this would be a compro-
mise far the benefit of the working classes.
Lord STANLEY observed that there were two argu-
ments in favour of this Bill—the first was, that if the
amendment was adopted the Bill would be abandoned;
the second was, that a concession and a compromise had
been made. Both the Noble Earls had threatened to

abandon the Bill if this amendment were tulop'>cd.
Now, he hPi;::,eti to call their attention to the re3o!o-
- of the committee of the cotton-laVory workers of
Lancashire, agce(tl to on May 4th, 1850, whol they
A,:e! tlat they preferred the all being thrown out
,11;04eihcr than to Lave tr-Bailie erlop:e3. els,.
referred to ie3elutions of the same effect, also adopted at
a ia,-.e:ing in Lancashire, and stated that he could cite
half-a-dozn others, where the same opinion was ex-
pressed as to the Ten Hours Dill, that there should be

present Bill would be imperfect in its operation without no surrender and no compromise.—(Hear.) But then
such a clause, as that proposed. Without it children it was said that there had been a compromise. By
might be kept two hours and a half at work in factories whom, he asked, was that compromise entered into?
after their parents had gone home. He thought the chil- i IVhere was the evidence of the manufacturers hatin
cl:en would gladly consent to that limitation, and to the demanded any concgssiop? It was a concession on theg
final sz tt.ement of the question es proposed by the Bid, part of the Government, not made in public, but in pri-
The Duke of IIICIIMOND wished to know, if such a va,e, and between unknown parties,—(Hear, hear.) The
propozidon as that of the Noble Earl was t.f so much im- operatives were almost unanimously against it, and as
pot-mune and so touch desired, why it had not been in I to the millowners. he had presented a petition a short
the original B. 11? He was in favour of the principle of time back, signed by 271 millowners, 40 alone of whom
his Noble Friend's anaehdment, but ho did not wish to employed 30,003 hands, and so far were they from pray-
hamper the Bill with additional difficultlts. ing for this Bill, that they prayed that the principle of
The E'trl of HARROWBY briefly replied. He re- the Ten Hours Bill might not he departed from.—(hear.)

They had, too, the petitions of niedieal men, showing
that the health of the operative 3 had been improved by
the Ten hours Bill, and that it would be de' ericrated if
interfered with; and he called the attention of the Right
Rev. Prelate (the Bishop of Manchester) to a petition
signed by 34 clergymen of the town of Manchester, who
declared that no enactment of' modern times had con-
ferred greet r advantages upon the operatives as re-
garded their moral and social condition. The petition
of these clergymen was entitled to their respectful atten-
tion, and tended to show that the proposed measure
would not ho a satisfactory settlement of Ois great
question.—(Hear, hear.)
The Bishop of MANCHESTER said he was not pre-
pared to take the same course with the Noble Lord who
had just sat down. Ile admitted that the petition of the
clergy of Manchester was entitled to the greatest atten-
tion;
but he was obliged to say that a large number of
the manufacturers were not indifferent to this
question. He was prepared to say that a large
number of the operatives were anxious that whatever
was done should be done in accordance with the wishes
of their employers, used he thought this measure was
nearer to a lair compromise than any Bill that had been
proposed. He could say that a change most gratif; leg
had taken place in the manufacturing districts, and this
he admitted was the consequence of the Ten Hours Act.
—(Hear, hear.) But what was asked for? Two hours
a week.—(Hear, hear.) Was he to be told that all the
advantages that had been gained would be lost by the
tvo additional hours of labour? No, ho did not think
t so operatives would reject all these advantages if two
hours' additional labour were imposed upon them. He
believed the working classes would accept this measure,
would soon be reconciled to it, and therefore he would
vote for it.
The Earl of GALLOWAY was unwilling to forego
the practical benefit to be obtained by this Bill, but if
he c.tuld gain the other two hours for the operatives, he
would willingly supp )rt any practical propesi;i-gin that
could confer it upon them.
The ashop of OXFORD said they had to consider
whether this Bill was or not a breach of the compact en-
tcrod
into with the operatives in 1847. In his judgment
it was a breach of that compact, and thf refore he could
not vote for it. It was a breach of a compact for a small
—a very small advantage, to the millowner.—(leer.)
It was said the factory labourer was better off than the
agricultural labourer, bnt it was not grown-up labourers
they were legislating for now, but for women and ehil-
dren.—(llt ar.) They had as yet heard nothing to show
that the operatives were parties to this alteration of the
law. The contrary he believed to be the fact. The work-
iota classes should be taught to look to that House as the
ultimate appeal between class and class, where they
would find inflexible integrity.—(Hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to effer a few
words for the consideration of the Committee before
proceeding to the vote upon the amendment of the Noble
Duke. La the first place he must observe, in reference
to what had fallen from the Right Rev. Prelate who had
last addressed them, that if the Right Rev. Prelate had
listened to the course of this.debate it would have been
impossible for him t 3 have contended that every one
on that and the other side of the House had let slip
an avowal that he was an enemy of the Ten Hours
Bill. It so happened that the two last speakers on his
ride of the House, instead of letting it slip, did more
than let it clip that they were friends of the Ten Hours
Bill.

The Bishop of OXFORD explained that what he had
.aid was, that the objection was to t`►e principle of legit:-
lative interference.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would accept the
explanation of the Right Rev. Prelate. The two Noble
Peers to whom he h2d referred stated distinctly that
they were friends to that interference.—(Hear, hear.)
He contended that the advantages of the present mea-
sure vvas that it united both the enemies and the friends
of the principle. Those who were the enemies of in-
terference rejoiced to see it definf d, and not liable to
evasion. He was sure the Right Rev. Prelate would
agree s ith him that among the friends of the operatives
Lord Ashley stood conspicuous. That Noble Lord,
who, by his exertions for the last seventeen

years, and his sacrifice of time tied con-
nexion, had proved himself their tree friend, had,
after exerting his great abilities and great
knowledge of the subject in the preparation of clauses
t) be introduced into this very Bill for the purpose of
giving security to the operatives, had openly proclaimel
that he found it impossible to give that security by law.
He found that which all would find who had consid rea
the subject, that it was one thing to interf-re by statute
and another thing to carry it into effect. A mode had
beers devised by means oc, ho would not call it a cons-
premise, as that word was objected to, but by means
of a happy understanding which now, for the
first time existed, if not between all, at least
between a very largo number of the masters and
operatives, by which the interests of both might be con-
sulted, aua roasans had been assigned, which he hoped
the Right Rev. Prclste had seen—(llear, bear.) The
Right Rev. Prelate asserted that a compact had been
violated. He denied that any such compact had been
mane. He maintained that it was not only the unfet-
tered right, but the duty of the Legislature to set right
any misunderstanding which might have occurred in
passing an enactment; and knowing as he did the acute-
ness of the Right Rev. Prelate, and his knowledge
of every branch of the trade of this country, he
certainly had heard his statement with no little
surprise. Half an hour might be very little fir the op( -
rative to give up, but it might be everything for the
mAnurautur r to gain.—(Hear, hear.) Did the Right
Rev. Prelate know that four-fifths of the capital of a
manufacturer was invested, not in wages he paid to the
operatives, but in the machinery which he employed,
and that it that machinery stood still for half an hour,
or even for a quarter of an hour, he would lose infinitely
more than he would gain for the work of all his opera-
tives in an hour?—(Hear, hear.) The whole question
lay in this—whether the manufacturer who had been
invited to invest his capital on the faith cf the existing
law should be compelled, without positive proof of its
necessity, to make such a sacrifice? fie contended that
Parliament was perfectly free to legislate on this question.
It was now proposed that it should legislate on an impar-
tisl view of the interests of both parties, and pals an
Act, which, wbile it relieved the operatives from a low
which had enabled the masters to introduce a system of
shifts and relays, conferred on them an inestimable
boon ; for what greater boon could be given them,
V al the provision that they should commence at six
o'clock and end at six o'clock—thus assuring to
them- the possession of the whole evening. and which
secured to them half the Saturday, which Wits most
valuable for every purpose of recreation and instruction.
It Noble Lords who opposed the Bill would look to the
report, and see the effect of the law as it now stood,
they would perceive that all its beneficial effects would
he enhanced by the proposed alteration. The beneficial
operation of the law consisted chiefly in affording facili-
ties to the operwives to pass the Evening in receiving
instructions and cultivating their garden allotments It
was upon these grounds that Mr. Horner, who, he sup-
ix sec!, must not be tegarded as a man totally ignorant
of the subject, and incapable of forming an opinion, said
on the 17 th of June that the plan recently brought for-
ward, if not unisersally approved 01, had been received
with great satisfaction by a large majority of all those
interested in the question. He would say no more than
that he in his conscience believed that this Bill afforded
a better opportunity than had hitherto been presented
of bringing this difficult question, if not entirely to a
close, ;at least to a state in which the parties would he
better able to understand each other. Seventeen
years bad passed away, during which every firm of
difficulty had presented itself in the way of reconcilingl
the conflicting interests of capital and labour.
—(Hear, hear.) He would not say whether, if the
amendment should be carried, the Bill would pass into a
law or not. He believed it would not, for it was not
unconstitutional for him to augur that the other House
of Parliament would refuse to adopt the opinionof their
Lordships. It was, however, unnecessary for the pur-
pose of his argument to enter into this speculation, for
whether it passed or not it mattered but little if' it did
not succeed in enlisting the sympathies of both parties.
—(llc.ar, hear.) They might depend upon it, that pro-
hibit as they might, when they came to act upon the
avowed system of interference, if they created in every
place where that interference was to be exercised a pro-
portionate opposition, their enactments would vanish
into air, and they would be unable, by all the clauses
they could invent, to enforce the regulations which they
desired. Such interferences, when they succeeded at all,
could only succeed by meeting with a certain degree of
approbation and concurrence from all parties interested.
Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority against the amendment —l3
The Bill then passed through Committ, e
The Bills on the table were forwarded a stage, and
their Lordships adjourned.

COFFEE AND EATING-HOUSE KEEPERS ASSOCIA-
TION.—The general annual meeting of the subscribers and
friends to the association was held yesterday evening, at the
Freemasons' Tavern, for the general transaction of business;
Mr. Thomas: Sherwood in the', chair. After the usual pre.
liininaries the committee's report was read, which stated,
with much gratification, that the amount of donations and sub-
scriptions received during the past year exceeded the arnourt
received in either of the two preceding years by about 10/.,
and also that the funded property had been increased by 2001.
The interest upon the sums previously invested, amounting
for the year to about 83/., had also been added ; thus making
the funded property of the assocition, in the hands of the
Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt,2,44 ,
and there was a balance in hand of 6/. 7s. 4d. During
the past year about twelve new annual subscribers had been
added to the list, but about the same number would be
erased. The committee expressed regret that, cousidering
the large number of persons connected with:coffeeland eating-
houses so few had enrolled themselves among the supporters
of the association. Among the efforts of the committee to
add to the funds of the institution was an excurcrc,n to
Southend, in July, 1849, which produced a profit of 25/. 4s. ,d.
The ball and concert at the Eagle Tavern, in January last,
yielded a profit of 43/. The annual dinner in May was the
means of adding nearly 1.00/. to the funds. The financial
statement showed a total amout of receipts of 417/. 6s. 7d.
The repeat having been received and adopted, the meeting
proceeded to consider the applicati n of a subscriber to be
eie,ted a pensioner, and to elect cilicers for the ensuing- year.
A vote of thanks to the chairman concluded the proceedings.

On Sunday no fewer limn seven persons met their
deaths by drowning in the Thames, between Battersea and
London-bodges.