The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-20 00:00:00

INDIA:

Mr. MACAULAY inquired what had caused the delay
in the presentation of the papers ordered respecting the
late occurrences in India.
Sir R. PEEL said he was sorry if any delay had
taken place, but he had not been certain whether the
House should get the papers printed or not.
The SPEAKER was understood to say that they
should be printed by the Foreign-office.
Sir R. PEEL again said he was sorry for the delay.
POOR-LAW (SCOTLAND). . . . . _ _

Mr. E. ELLICE, junior, inquired of the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir J Graham) when the Commissioners
of Poor-law Inquiry in Scotland would send in their
report ?
Sir J. GRAHAM understood from the Noble Lord at
the head of the Commission that the report would he
ready to be laid before the House soon after the recess.
THE TARIFF—FOREIGN RECIPROCITY.

Mr. RICARDO rose to bring forward tho motion of
which he had given notice, to the effect—That an humble
address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her
Majesty will be graciously pleased to give directions
to her servantsnot to enter into any negotiations with fo •
reign Powers which would make any contemplated altera-
tions of the tariff of the United Kingdom contingent on
the alteration of the tariffs of other countries; and hum-
bly expressing to her Majesty the opinion of this House,
that the great object of relieving the commercial inter-
course between this country and foreign nations from
all injurious restrictions would be best promoted by re-
gulating our own Customs' duties as may be most
suitable to the financial and commercial interests
of this country, without reference to the amount
of duties which Foreign Powers might think it expe-
dient for their own interests to levy on British goods.
The effect of the course which had been hitherto pur-
sued was altogether unsatisfactory. Having signally
failed in obtaining their object by means of nego-
tiations to extend their exports, it became them
to inquire whether they might not arrive at-
the same end by simple legislation on their
imports. The treaties which were in question
in 1842 were those with Brazil, with Portugal, Spain,
and France. .The fate of the first of these treaties had
been most pathetically described by the Right Hon.
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade. It was
now clearly understood that the result of all these pro-
tracted negotiations with Brazil was a handsome propo-
sition on the part of the Brazilian Government
not to raise the duties on our commodities more than
25 per cent., in return for concessions on our part. What
the concessions were the Right Hon. Gentleman had not
shown; 'but he ventured to say, however preposterous
were the proposals of the Brazilian Government, those of
our own Government were so in a four or five-fold degree.
Great as was his respect for the abilities of the Noble Lord,
at the head of the Foreign Department, and of the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government,
displayed, as these last were so conspicuously, in making
a good case out of bad materials, he could not imagine
what arguments they had used- in order to entice the
Brazilian Government to adopt the course which they re-
commended. Certainly aproposition to reduce restrictions
would not come well from a nation which had imposed a
duty of 400 or 500 per cent. upon Brazilian produce.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) A convention for tke sup-
pression of slavery was one thing, and a treaty of com-
merce was another, and if slavery were the ground upon
which they voted, he would suggest to the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it
would not be best togrant compensation to the Brazilian
slaveholders, as they had done to the West Indians.—
(Hear.) In Spain they had done more than negotiate.
The Government of Spain could not but know that upwards
of 300,000 of her people were employed in smuggling,
and in smuggling only. And yet with every circum-
stance apparently in our favour to assist and encourage
our commerce, it was a fact that we were further off our
point than ever. British influence hadnever been so low
in the Peninsula as at the present moment. The next
commercial convention which had miscarried was
that with Portugal, and he need not now
point out the derangement in the wine trade
which had been occasioned by
.it. Owing to this
circumstance alone there had been a diminution in the
usual quantity of wine, amounting to not less than
1,080,000 gallons. Those interested naturally remonstrated
on the subject with the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
but, instead of redress, their position had been aggravated
by a fresh impediment, which hadgrown up to a reduction
in the duties on wines, in the shape of a drawback,
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had granted to
the merchants. So that before any arrangement can be
made with Portugal, for every one shilling of duty that
may be reduced an enormous sum of money must be
paid by us as compensation. This was what had
been happily termed by the Honourable Member for
Taunton (Mr. Labouchere), always ending, never ending.
The Hon. Gentleman then referred to a paper which
had been laid on the table of the House, containing a
valuable series of commercial tariffs drawn up by Mr.
Macgregor. A French gentleman, Mons. Saint Ferrier,
had aid down the system of commercial policy pursued by
France. Amongst other things, he said that in the
negotiations of France with England, most of the con-
ditions proposed by the latter should be avoided. The
French Government had lost great sums of money in
fostering its own manufactures, which they might have
had at less expense from other countries. It was usual
to introduce some clause relating to commerce in most
treaties. There was such a clause in the late treaty with
America. Lord Ashburton had a clause introduced that
the agricultural produce of Maine might be admitted on
the same footing as the produce of the American colonies.
But, Maine being now as much a portion of the United
States as New York, the other States might claim to
have their corn admitted on the same terms as that of
Maine. The Right lion. Baronet had admitted
American rice on the same terms as the rice from the
west coast of Africa. The Right Hon. Baronet admit-
ted, in answer to a question from the Noble Lord, the
Member for London, that great difficulties existed in ne-
gotiating commercial treaties, and that even greater dif-
ficulties existed in negotiating them where constitutional
governments and the representative system had existed.
It was unwise and impolitic to wait to see what
other countries would do. It would be better for them
to commence with their own Custom-house. M. Guizot, in
answer to a question put to him by ono of the
Members of the Chamber of Deputies, announced
his intention of not following the ignis fatuus of com-
-mercial treaties, but would adopt such measures as
might be necessary for the welfare of the
country without reference to foreign countries.
He also said that the modification of tariffs
would produce all the benefit desired by all par-
ties in extending their commercial relations. If this
were true, no person could find fault with him (Mr.
Ricardo) for not bringing forward his motion before.
With respect to Russia, a country which was surrounded
by protective duties, he should say that their trade was
much greater. The imports from that country amounted
to five millions sterling, while the exports amounted to
only 1,600,000/. It was asserted that this balance would
have to be paid in gold, but he considered that a
profitable trade could be carried on in gold. He thought
there was no supernatural attribute in the word gold.
The exports to Russia during the year 1841, consisted
chiefly of cotton twist, sugar, coffee, wine, rum,
and such articles, which came from the bonded
warehouses in this country, where they were sent
by the Brazilians, who received in return cotton,
woollen, and other manufactures from England. If they
could not find Ministers bold enough to carry out those
principles which would tend to abolish restrictions which
crippled trade, they might bid adieu to the greatness
and prosperity which this country had so long enjoyed.
He hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would not
content himself with contemplating the present years of
plentiful harvests. He trusted, that the same causes
which were in operation in past years were in operation
now, and it was possible that they might have years of
scarcity again. He hoped he would throw aside all the
old principles of protection and monopoly, and see the
absurdity and injustice of forcing the people into such
costly sacrifices. He trusted that their Ambassadors
would receive instructions to tell the different Courts of
Europe that Great Britain had aroused herself from her
delusions, under which she had so long laboured; that
she now knew she could not sell without buying, or buy
without selling ; that in using the productions of other
countries they were only using their own in another
shape. He hoped they would be able to say that all the
ports of the country were opened, and that the only,
limits to their commerce were those which they them-
selves imposed. He concluded by proposing his motion.
Mr. EWART seconded the motion. In referring to
the history of commercial treaties, he asked what
good result had this country ever obtained from them ?
The first treaty to which he would refer was the cele-
brated Methuen treaty of 1703, which was for a long
time the wonder of the commercial world. The effect
of it was to introduce into this country a taste for
the wine of Oporto, which then superseded French wine,
that until then was the only wine consumed in England.
The next great treaty was that which was concluded with
France in 1786, by Mr. Pitt, of which it was said that it
was so advantageous to the English nation that the
French ought never again to make a commercial treaty.
He turned from our own country to other countries, and
he asked whether the reduction of the duty on im-
ports had not been highly beneficial The most obvious
country in reference to this part of the question was the
United States of America. For a long series of years,
while the United States of America were steadily pro-
gressing, their imports largely exceeded their exports,
and the attention of one of the most acute observers of
human nature, Dr. Franklin, was turned to the subject.
He said, that if the importation of foreign luxuries
could ruin a people, they, the Americans, would proba-
bly have been ruined long ago, for the British nation
had claimed and exercised the right of
importing, not only the superfluities of her
own production, but of every nation under
heaven. But setting aside these questions of the past,
the simple question was, whether they were likely to
succeed in future. There appeared to be no approxima-
tion on the part of France towards a commercial treaty
with this country. He believed that there existed in
France, and in almost every nation in the world, an
extreme Jealousy of English commerce. The same thing
prevailed in Germany. He did not believe that the
United States contemplated any approach towards a
commercial connexion. Our future connexion with them
could only consist in our throwing open our ports to
them, and taking whatever we wanted, convinced
that they would in the end take from us what-
ever they wanted, in return. He did not think
that the answer of the Minister would be
satisfactory to the country. The mind of the country
3C as made up on the subject. The French Government had
given a decided answer on the question, and her Majesty's
Government ought to take the same course, and relieve
the commerce of the country from the mischiefs occa-
sioned by the uncertainty,

Mr. GLADSTONE did not think it would be difficult
to show the House sufficient reason for refusing the
motion. Whether he should be able to answer the
Honourable Gentleman to his own satisfaction,
he did not know, for he did not quite under-
stand the terms of the motion. He thought he
could satisfy the House that the motion ought not to be
conceded, and that without disputing or even referring
to a great many of the Hon. Gentleman's statements.
The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the negotiations
which had taken place between Great Britain and other
countries. Now, he (Mr. Gladstone) did not think
it necessary to enter with him (Mr. R.) into the policy
of these negotiations. He did not think it necessary,
because if he agreed with him that all these were use-
less, still he had not made out a case for a motion so
broad as this. The Hon. Gentleman last year brought
forward a motion that it was neither useful nor expedient
to make commercial treaties ; but this motion was still
larger, as it would go to declare, abstractly and without
condition, that this Government ought never to enter
into arrangements respecting tariffs with other countries.
It would declare that no to o countries could enter into
any arrangements involving questions of trade. He
thanked the Hon. Gentleman, however, on the part of
his Right Hon. Friend for the high opinion he had ex-
pressed of him and which he believed to be deserved,
and for the extreme charity of his judgment.
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ricardo) in speaking of
Brazil had ventured to say, that the proceedings of this
country in the attempted negotiation with Brazil were
absurd.

Mr. RICARDO—No, I said preposterous.—(A laugh.)
Mr. GLADSTONE--Well, preposterous. He said
that nothing could be more preposterous than that on
the part of Brazil duties on certain articles, to the
amount of only 40 per cent. should be charged, whilst
in our tariff we charged 300 per cent. on some of the
articles coming Brazil. Now, did the Hon. Member
think that this was a fair representation of the case ?
Why it was only the other evening that he (Mr. Glad-
stone), when discussing another question, had been called
upon to show that the 40 per cent. duties of the Bra-
zilians were imposed not for the objects of revenue, but
for the avowed purpose of raising up a protective system.
Surely that was a very different matter.
Mr. RICARDO—It comes to just the same thing.
Mr. GLADSTONE then did not understand tha sub-
ject at all—he knew not the distincticn between duties
laid on for revenue and duties laid en for protection.
However, that was a matter into which he would not
further enter. The Hon. Gentleman had adverted to
the case of Spain, and to the failure of every attempt to
effect a commercial negotiation with that country. He
did not at all wish to disguise the particular objections
which lay in the way of these negotiations. But he
ought to have taken into his view all the special circum-
stances which affected Spain, and the difficulties which
this Government had to encounter in a country where
Government, at the best of times weak, had lately
become powerless, as, unfortunately, recent events
had but too clearly proved.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the case of America,
and had said that one of the clauses of Lord Ashbur-
ton's treaty was likely to produce the worst effects; that
was a question that he would not now go into, but he
thought that the Hon. gentle Man had given a wrong
interpretation of the clause he had alluded to with re-
spect to the State of Maine. The opinion he had formed
on one of the clauses was entirely groundless; so also
with respect to rice. With respect to Maine the privi-
lege given to it was one that had been given by treaties.
The Hon. Gentleman appeared to think it unreasonable
that they should stickle with the duties that had been
put on by Portugal on goods the produce of this country,
while they were placing a duty of 30 or 40 per cent.
on the products of that country. Nov for his own part he
thought there was no comparison between the two cases.
He would not deny that there were great difficulties
connected with the subject. The uncertainty itself was
a great evil. The delay was an evil.—(Cheers.) He
would not deny that, in certain cases, negotiations
of this nature might give rise to hostile feelings. The
negotiators might be apt to over-estimate the advan-
tages which they themselves offered, and to under-esti-
mate the advantages offered by others. He admitted
that inconveniences might attend negotiations of this
nature, and therefore he admitted that negotiations for
commercial treaties ought not to be undertaken without
some prospect of their being brought to a success-
ful termination. He had no desire to underrate
the practical difficulties of the subject, but the
question really raised by the Honourable Gentleman
was this—Could commercial treaties, under any
circumstances, be advantageous ? Because if it

were possible to form an advantageous commercial
treaty, it would be most unwise in the House to preclude
itself from taking advantage of such a circumstance, by
consenting to this resolution. Now, the treaty with the
Brazils was an advantageous treaty. He admitted that
the treaty was in one respect an illustration of the ar-
gument of the Honourable Gentleman, because in later
years it had tended to create a belief among the Bra-
zilians that they had been unjustly dealt with. No
doubt in that treaty political countenance and encou-
ragement had been exchanged for commercial advan-
tages, and when that political countenance was no longer
necessary, those who had to pay for it, in the shape of
commercial advantages, felt no doubt a degree of sore-
ness. The Hon. Gentleman said that the trade with
Russia was as great as that with the Brazils. He de-
nied that such was the case ; but it should be recollected
that the Brazils had a population of six millions, while
Russia had a population of sixty millions. The stipula-
tion with regard to the limitation of duty in the Brazilian
treaty, was a most advantageous one for the manufac-
turers of this country. The Hon. Gentleman had referred
to the commercial treaty with France, in 1787. Now,
that was an example of a good commercial treaty.
He wished to draw a distinction between occasional
duties, and an indiscriminate system of commercial
duties. He hoped that the present Government, and
those who might in future govern, would profit by ex-
perience, and give to commercial treaties not mere than
their due weight ; but that need not preclude the possi-
bility of making any treaties. The question was, whe-
ther abstract propositions in commercial matters were
the most convenient forms for expressing the opinion of
legislative bodies upon them. Instead of allowing cir-
cumstances their due weight, they were called on to tie
up their hands, and put it out of their power to legislate
at aIL The lion. Member talked of the spinning jenny
and steam-engine being abstract propositions ; he was
not aware that either of them made their way into this
world as abstract propositions. He thought they were
the result of labour and invention, perfected by men who
studied, and followed Nature, according the guide of cir-
cumstances. That was the principle on which he should
wish to proceed. The doctrine sought to be laid down
extended to all commercial treaties. He denied that no
case could arise in which it might not be desirable to
make a remission of revenue duty, without depending on
the contingency of concessions made by foreign Powers.
The Hon. Gentleman appeared to assume that because,
as he said, he would gain his result in another shape, as
in the case of Russia, from the shape in which it would
be obtained in the case of India or America, that there-
fore it was a perfect matter of indifference in what shape
it was obtained. He (Mr. Gladstone) admitted that the
trade with Russia was beneficial to the country, but that
it would be more beneficial if their tariff, instead of being
almost restrictive, was more liberal. It was a great
mistake to exclude from their view the purposes for
which the commercial treaties had been completed. The
Methuen treaty was a case in which the manifest result
was, that they paid in hard money for real or supposed
political advantages. The treaties entered into during
the last two years had not been entered into
with a view of establishing permanent systems of dif-
ferential duty. It had always been plainly avowed that
the reductions would be extended to other countries.
The negotiation with France five or six years ago was
not undertaken merely with reference to Sheffield and
woollen goods. He believed the object was to break
down the system. Let them watch the use of the
means as much as they pleased, but let them not take
from the Government the means of doing what, in
given circumstances, would be a powerful instrument in
producing a favourable change in commercial legisla-
tion. Unless the Hon. Gentleman could show that it
was immaterial to this country whether other countries
with which we dealt should have prohibitive systems or
not—unless he could show that the treaty with Brazil
had been injurious to our trade, and that the treaty en-
tered into with France had been injurious—he had no
right to call on the House, in language perfectly clear
and perspicuous, to affirm each and every one of
those propositions which he (Mr. Gladstone)
had mentioned. He, therefore, called on the
House to reject the motion, and to affirm
the principles of common sense, that if a commercial
treaty was to be attended plainly with advantage it
should not be refused in consequence of the Hon. Gen-
tleman's proposition. He again called ou the iltHiSe -to I
reject the motion, and not to tie up their hands for the
future, and shut the country out from the possibility of
availing itself of advantages which might hereafter
offer.

Lord HOWICK had heard with satisfaction much of
what had been said by the Right Hon. Gentleman. His
Hon. Friend who made the motion did not more clearly
show the impolicy and inconvenience of those negotia-
tions than the Right Hon. Gentleman himself.—
(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed,
with greater force and conciseness than he (Lord
Howick) could attempt that inconvenience and impolicy.
The only objection which the Right Hon. Gentleman
alleged to the motion, and in which he called on the
House to reject, was thit there was a probability that a
case might arise when it would be desirable to enter
into a negotiation.—(Hear.) He (Lord Howick) con-
fessed that he was astonished to hear the Hon. Gentle-
man object to this motion on the ground that it was an
abstract one.—(Hear, hear.) Would the Right Hon.
Gentleman inform him how anything could be less ab-
stract than this : that the House in the exercise of its
constitutional right should address the Queen, praying
her to exercise her prerogative in a certain manner,, and
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Majesty upon any subject which they might think justi-
fied or required such a step. The only question for them
to consider was this—is that advice proper on the present
occasion? He (Lord Howick) for one, was prepared to
argue that it was. It was impossible to compare the
language of the leaders of the great political parties in
this country, and not be surprised at the practical re-
sults of their legislation. In the abstract—that was in
their language—they were free-traders ; but in their
practice, they were complete restrictionists. Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite said, .free trade principles were the
principles of common sense—they said they ought to
buy in the cheapest and to sell in the dearest market.
Though this was their general doctrine, they did heir
best to encumber the trade of the country wi the

most noxious and oppressive provisions. They laid
upon our various branches of national industry the
heaviest duties—duties which could be defended on no
grounds of necessity, and on no sound political or com-
meecial principles. What was the reason for such
conduct ? It was plainly this, that private interests
were enlisted against the public good. It appeared to
him, that the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ricardo)
was a motion calculated to be most eminently useful to
the country ; but it was calculated to bring before the
House, and the country, distinctly and separately from
other questions, the policy of insisting upon what were
termed reciprocity concessions. If the House might
judge of their conduct, there really appeared to be very
slight grounds of difference between her Majesty's Go
vernment and those who supported the motion. The
supporters of the motion held that all restrictions in
trade were disadvantageous ; and that restrictions by
other countries were just as disadvantageous as those in
this country. Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite held
that it was injudicious to maintain high duties, and there-
by punish ourselves because other nations did so. No
man had avowed that opinion more strongly than
the Right lion. Baronet himself did in his speech when
he introduced the tariff. So far they were entirely
agreed, and the only difference between them was re-
duced to this, first as to the expediency, even for a
short time of submitting to the inconvenience of restric-
tion upon our own trade, in the hope of getting other
countries to join with us in taking off the restrictions they
imposed, and next as to what would be the best course
to pursue for the purpose of placing the trade between
this country and the other nations of the world upon
that footing which all agreed was desirable that it should
be placed. Now it appeared to him that if they ad•
mitted that it was inexpedient to punish ourselves by
high duties, because other nations imposed high
duties on our produce, it was hardly possible to
avoid the conclusion that it was necessary at once to
make the change ; because time was a very material
element in this case. If they admitted that the system
was punishing themselves, and that it was unwise per-
manently to continue it, he could not conceive how
they could reject, even for a day, that relief which was
available to them, and which would better the population
of this country. Ile could not conceive how they could
do this under the vague expectation that by main-
taining the system they would get other countries to
join them in the establishment of perfect freedom. It
appeared to him that this must be a mistake, arising
from misconception as to the relative importance of re-
striction upon our imports and exports. Her Majesty's
Government seemed still, with all the advances they had
made in the doctrine of free trade—they still seemed
not entirely to have shaken off the old notion, that it
was the export trade that was the most advantageous,
and that what was long ago called a favourable balance
of trade was desirable. It was now nearly three-
quarters of a century since that theory was exploded
by every educated man ; yet something of this opinion
still hung on the minds of statesmen, and still seemed
to be the governing influence of the conduct of nations.
We still seemed to think that the exports were really
the most advantageous. Now he entirely concurred
with the Hon. Gentleman behind him, that the real
value of trade lay in the imports, and not in the exports.
—(Hear.) The first question to be considered was,
what amount of goods they were able to obtain for the
consumption of the population.—(Hear, hear.) The
export trade was no doubt important, but it was so only
as a means by which they were enabled to obtain their
imports. It was a most extraordinary course of policy
that they should refuse to receive imports because they
were not quite certain that there would be no difficulty
hereafter in providing the means of payment. Now he
would ask whether that difficulty had been particularly
felt hitherto?—(Hear, hear.) It was enough to state
that for a considerable time we had been carrying on
what was called a triangular system of trade, by means
of the smuggler. The greater facility they gave to the
introduction of foreign goods into this country it was
clear that a corresponding extension of the export trade
must follow. That was a truth which seemed to him to
rest upon the most obvious principles of the commonest
arithmetic. For his part he did not deny that extrava-
gant duties existed in foreign countries, and he thought
that by such duties those nations not only obstructed
the progress of civilisation, but also prevented them-
selves from benefiting by the produce of other nations.
—(Hear, hear.) It was in that sense only that he be-
lieved those duties were injurious to us. The grounds
for such a cause of policy therefore appeared to him to
be almost inconceivable. In considering this question
he had derived considerable advantage from the state-
ments of Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and he thought
he (Mr. Gladstone) had stated the grounds for antici-
pating what would be the result of commercial treaties.
He (Lord Howick) would appeal to experience upon
this subject. Ever since the termination of the war
we had been engaged in one unceasing course
of negotiations. We had lost no opportunity.
Our ablest Ministers at home and abroad—
Mr. Canning, the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton
(Lord Palmerston), the Earl of Aberdeen, the Duke of
Wellington, the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir
Robert Peel), and some of the most distinguished men
this country ever produced, had, for a period of nearly
thirty years, been engaged in attempts to negotiate ad-
vantageous commercial treaties with other countries.
What had been the result ? Why, that at this time we
were no better off than at the beginning. Right Hon.
Gentlemen opposite themselves admitted that there was
a growing desire upon the part of foreign countries to
throw obstructions in the way of trade. What would
I have been the result if a different course of policy had
been pursued by Great Britain ? Suppose that at the
end of the war no negotiations of any sort had been
entered into—suppose we had commenced by reducing
all our duties to as low a point as revenue considerations
would allow. If that course had been taken in 1815—if
they had dealt on that principle with Brazilian sugar,
with Prussian corn, with Baltic timber—did they think
that they would have driven foreign countries to the ne-
cessity of adopting a commercial system of so exclusive
a character as they had ? He believed no man would
contend that such would have been the case.—(Hear.)
Although this course had not been pursued hitherto, it
was not too late to adopt it now. Let them teach other
countries by example, not by precept.—(Hear, hear).
That would be the practical result of the motion of his
Hon. Friend. It was not an abstract proposition, but
was one eminently calculated to be useful to the country.
The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Gladstone)
admitted the general impolicy of commercial negotia-
tions, but he said " Do not tie up the hands of the Go-
vernment, for it is not probable"—(The Right Hon.
Gentleman knew it was not probable)—" but et is pos-
sible, that a case may arise in which we may be able to
conclude advantageous commercial treaties." The
Right Hon. Gentleman then referred to examples, and the
first to which he adverted was a treaty in 1787, with
France. He (Lord Howick) did not question the advan-
tage of that arrangement. Although he was a great ad-
mirer:of Mr. Fox, he must admit that, as a commercial
Minister, Mr. Pitt was superior to him ; but he (Lord
Howick) believed that if the treaty of 1787 had not been
entered into the result would have been more beneficial
to this country. If we had then adopted a liberal po-
licy, and had left France to follow our example had she
pleased, at this moment the beneficial effects of such a
' cburse would have been visible. The Right Hon.
Gentleman's next example was the treaty with Brazil.
Now the Right Hon. Gentleman himself was obliged to
admit that, in point of fact, that treaty with Brazil gave
her no commercial advantages, as they were called,
while it required a great deal of her in order to secure
our political countenance. That he (Lord Howick)
thought was the strongest condemnation of the treaty
that could be found.—(Hear.) He firmly believed
that if, instead of driving this hard bargain with
Brazil—if; . instead of doing that, they had liberally
admitted her produce, and shoe n her the same poli-
tical countenance, only giving in return what, accord-
ing to the opinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, was
little better than a bribe—if they had given freely their
political countenance, and admitted her produce, he
believed they would have obtained greater commercial
advantages than they had enjoyed from that time to
this. He believed that now, in the year 1844, there
would have been no reason to apprehend that Brazil
would impose differential duties with respect to our
commodities. He believed that they would not have
had to apprehend that Brazil would impose a duty of
40 per cent, on British commodities. But further than
this, he said that he was prepared to tie up the hands of
the Government on this point, and he was prepared to
lay down a rule, that commercial treaties ought not to
be entered into. He would do this in such a manner, as
to show to foreign nations that this country did not
merely disclaim any attempt to enter into treaties
which they thought they could not get but in such a
manner as to show that there was a bona fide pre-
ference of the principle of dealing largely and
liberally with all the nations of the world. If they
acted on that principle—if they said we want no com-
mercial treaties—we want no stipulations with foreign
countries as to the rates of duty to be levied on our
goods, but we will proceed at once to adjust our duties
with regard to the financial interests of this country—
if they did this, he (Lord Howick) was persuaded that
the result would be, that the trade of this country
would make such an immediate spring, and such an ex-
tension of our present export trade would ensue—he
did not say at once, but in the course of a very few
years—that other nations would see the wisdom of fol-
lowing our example. He believed that the feeling which
now influenced the conduct of foreign countries, which
had been so graphically described by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, would no longer be called into play. The
monopoly interests in foreign countries—the iron
interest of France, for instance—would no longer be
enabled to enlist, in support of that monopoly', the
angry passions of a great portion of the com-
munity. The commercial policy of foreign coun-
tries would be so influenced, that in a very
short time—in the course, he believed, of a
very few years—the practical effect of their adopting the
policy which he recommended would be, that trade in
this country would be relieved of extravagant rates of
duty in foreign countries on our goods, which were now
levied. Ile asked them, was it a satisfactory answer to
them, now he wished to secure those great advantages,
by the adoption of a liberal, a generous, and a manly
system of commercial policy—now, when he wished to
secure those great advantages, was it a satisfactory
answer to him, for the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite
to say—" Don't tie up the hands of the Government.
It is not probable, but it is possible, that the case may
arise when we may conclude some commercial treaty ;
and, for the sake of that possibility, surrender those large
and great advantages we have now in our power to
secure ?" He (Lord Howick) said that the adoption of
that address to the Queen, by the House, would be a
most important step with reference to the civilization of
the world at large—(Cries of " Hear, hear")—it would
be a -pledge in the face of Europe and the world,. that
this, the first commercial nation in the universe,
was determined to give up her narrow and restricted
system of commercial policy. It ' would be a pledge
binding upon them in future time, and therefore it would
give confidence to foreign countries, and furnish a
btrong inducement for them to follow our example.

The motion of the Hon. Member he considered veil
well-timed; first, because it was introduced when the
long protracted negotiations with the four great Colt
mercial nations had utterly and lamentably failedneL
was there any prospect of these negotiations being re-
sumed with success. Now the ound was clear before
them—they had given a trial oft hirty years to one sY.st/i
tem of policy. Let them give as fair and as long a trlid
to the system proposed ; but he was convinced it t
prove eminently successful before a fourth part of tit
period had expired.—(Hear. hear.) But the motion '6'';
well-timed in another sense, because it was impossible IcL
any man to look around him and behold the present sew
of the country without being convinced of the urgent. 33e;
cessity there existed for the extension and improversenos
of commerce. It was true the distress was not
to
great as it had been two years ago. He was hag& t
believe that trade had revived to a great extent---wsol
there was, in some measure, a return of corninele
prosperity ; but no man, who looked deeply iii
condition of the country, would say that it was 1,-;
factory. Were not the rate of wages and the prO
of capital ruinously low ? That the profits were le
was proved by the measure which the Right Hon.
Gt
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had brouTe
forward a few evenings ago. He agreed in the approve
tion which had been bestowed on the measure for „.0
reduction of the Three-and-a-Half per Cents, but w
high prices of the funds, which caused the introdlic'
tion of that measure, must be regarded as ,s 11.1;
thing but satisfactory. The high prices of the nil;he,,
proved that there was great difficulty in finding ).
means of profitable investment for capital.—(eainro
When there was a low rate of profit there was a had
rate of wages. The Hon. Member for Stockport
adverted, a few evenings ago, in the course of his 102,
liant and unanswerable speech, to the low rate of wisrd:_n
in the agricultural districts of the south of Eni,no
and he vtry properly observed, that he threw no DIM
on the employers.—(Hear, hear.) He said the low rsi.,
of wages did nut depend on the will of the employs)
but on causes far deeper. That was his (Lord Howie me,
opinion too. The same state of things had existed °the
years ago, and the cause was admirably described
lamented Mr. Huskisson, who said it arose from the get
pressure on the springs of productive industry.
same state of things existed now from the sam e CaUS;4I
(Hear, hear.) It was the great pressure on the sPetbe
of productive industry that caused the low wag ees the
Dorsetshire labourers, and the miserable earnings est'
London semptresses.—(Hear, hear.) The Bigill"%re
Baronet told them last night that wages and profitsl-ra,
ground down to so low a state that they could net ?I:ilia
to make any restriction in the hours of labour, er.'",e.
protecting females from over exertion, which, in fbelo
street, was most desirable. That pressure on the ®Pr
of productive industry arose now as then from a'
ciency in the field for the employment of labour al
capital. It was their restrictive laws which prey( lot
that field from being enlarged—it was these laws tot
kept down profit and labour to the lowest point. log
therefore it was those restrictive laws which it sh %tie
be the first object of every man to get rid of. Aa:tiot
of the most important steps towards accomplishing "jag
object, he should concur with his Hon. Friend in Igo
down the rule that they should not unite for srbs: ries
termed reciprocity of concession from foreign count 014
but ought at once, trusting that other national! i tot
follow our example, take into serious consideratios
means of consistently, and upon general principles
clueing the rate of Custom duties as far as revereue;X
poses would allow them.—(Loud cheers.)
Sir J. HANMER, after complimenting the be
Lord on the ability and force of his speech, ss' he
could not agree in the principles enumerated bi,t he
Noble Lord. He thought this country should Del he
altogether indifferent to commercial negotiations, IT peg
thought to them it owed much of its greatness. WhYst; is et
we allow corn and cotton to come free from the ban inet
the Mississippi to our ports, whilst they mail
their present high tariff; or what guarantee bit pall
country that America, or the European States we ia•
renounce their import duties, some of which weave.
most prohibitory, if we adopted ever so liberal an be
restricted a system? This Government should /3 :NO
indifferent to the reciprocity of concession.
authority, Lord Ashburton, had declared in lBis°o .; et
presenting the great petition from the raercba%pe
London, that reciprocity was by no means to be uj3"oe'
garded.—(Hear.) He was quite as anxious as_..,trif
Members opposite to extend the trade of this 07,1,
and promote its commercial prosperity, but be t"
think the course at present proposed would hare I/0 or
dency to affect those objects, and he should therefor ,
pose it. #‘, tYI
Mr. HUME said it must be very gratifying vis
House to learn that the Hon. Member was desire alit
extending the commerce of this country. He, the so°:
' neither the Right Hon. Baronet at the head or '";ii:ee•
vernment, nor the Right Hon. Gentleman the Ffe,o4l;
of the Board of Trade, had—judging from their,. r yea
• ments—read the motion of his Hon. Friend, Ict, feted
I, one point adduced by him, he thought, had been 113:15i,40
by them. The Hon. Member was about enterNois
' some financial details, to prove the injury whienaiso
restrictions inflicted upon the commerce of this c"
' when, coin'
• An Hon. MEMBER moved that the House be jjev.
and only thirty-nine Members being present, the
adjourned at a Quarter to Eight o'clock.

SOUTH EASTERN COUNTIIig'
RAILWAY.
Yesterday, at one o'clock, a special meeting
.4°
Proprietors and Directors of the above BailwaL,wsl or
at the terminus, London- bridge, for the Pulte" r,
taking into consideration the draft of a Bill to sibrits___4
improve the harbour at Folkestone, and to f 0011,3%
railway from the main line to that place; also ,-14.;,),e_i
of a second Bill, empowering the Company te,:te;_tw
branch line from Ashford to Canterbury, OW- 0;5
Margate ; and to consider the propriety aitio
rising the Directors to raise, by the issue of .eel'
shares to the amount of 28,000, a sum 11°t earrtes e 7,
696,0001., for the purpose of providing for C°l..
ing amount in securities now existing under t"
the Company. 711W7),1,
The Chairman of the Company, Mr. BAOt
took the chair at one o'cloek, and said, the ohitessct
present meeting was only to confirm certain P'eetingo
which had been adopted at the last general ltd 110
the Proprietors. As they had so recently ex„010f4s
the objects for which the present meeting 105,70 per',le
should not detain them longer than to express 1
willingness to answer any questions which the
tos Innight wish to put to him. 0,-Onri°Sirot
reply to questions put to him by severs, '..,-0"010,..01
The CHAIRMAN said that the new shares rhaiJ v'ott
be registered until the first instalment of 4'• lelhe
paid, otherwise it would be only a scrip. 1.,,e-' jjfien ,
who paid 4/. would have his name enter cord 0004
Company's book for 61. 55., and be debited nec,aoP..,e
The sum of money so raised would be strictly.
ated to the purposes named in the requiowl,ool;
the meeting, and if there were a residue, it..,hieti
applied to the Parliamentary liabilities to " lot
Company was subject.the obipseds
A number of resolutions, confirmingll „re
which the meeting was convened, having m--e
,Datiff '-
and thanks voted to the Chairman, the
rated. ohs

WITCHCRAFT IN THE 19TH CENTVg/*----I:filtik.
circumstance, showing that even at tbisintaiiVed,rrstirfroe°.
superstitious belief in witchcraft atnnug
country is not yet altogether extinct, haPPeldi
in the Town's Muir. A small farmer there ha ~,050.„00`,
which the milk fell away, and believing it vrt5,,,,",;, tho,4
" evil eye," sent for a person professingen to
of discovering the agent of the mischief. " 0" it'
called, and Crummy's condition explained to 14, ball
lien's egg, blew it, and filled the shell with In,,,jd 0 'Sof i!
the owner of the cow, and told him to gojt" the tie bis
neighbours with it, and that when on 110103,b„we
up he found the milk did not rp in the "`" h„,e 'ostlet
did so, there was the destroyer oof his COws.,,, ld
man did as he was desired. From walking, s 10-
rally became churned, and at a certain ottso.l oit
drop. The result was, that the occupier, ;dere°, 013,4°
pronounced to be the witch. A very serious ds 0 ,:corw
held by the owner of the cow and hisfrieoloiliftchtilheo....s
then should be done. The projector of the for t'
was called. He told them the only thing 0-orcp—itot_,
to get a nail and scratch the brow of the Os tie;
Tho
the milk would again come to the COw'. fro
better
managed, but the cow was, of course, no
eritnent.—Pert h Courier.

MARRIED. Frotestall 00.
io
On the 3d of January, at the Barra', to gol•
Berhampore, Frederick Arthur Rillwickihpore enioolo,
third daughter ofES" Naligiatke°lresllsl of
On the 27th ult.. at the Palace Chapel, op vit.,
Erasmus Ommanney, R.N., of her aiestY_;stattlit
to Amelia Mary, eldest daughter of M
Samuel
her Majesty's Dockyard, Malta.

ter ti
—__—__
DIED. op- or
• Ilarriott, kw__ 0
On the sth inst., at Torquay, Marla . , Lob" ,
Major-General H. Roberts, C. 8., 0
of I'm
Lymington, Hants, aged 12 , A,,,ightor t
On the 4th inst.', at Elgin, Jessie, secona u- 10.,."
late Robert Marquis, Esq., of Durn, aged 29c: y, j,
On the 29th of February- at Naples, . A"- , ...-
Sir Peregrine Palmer Fuller' Feltner Acland, 9t
field, Somerset. SidneP 04
At Leicester House, Jersey, Richard C 1,!..,, mak
of
On the 16th inst., Eliza, the wife of Will''''" ifif
ef Iliafora
vipan Ir' A
surgeon, Brighton.
On the 16th inst., at Sitting fir. gent, A,-- ° p
0
W. Castle, Esq.child of W. , 1
On the 16th inst., Catherine, only - 0, - '
Henrietts, relict
id,
Seaton, surgeon, Sloane-street
Bl3B:;oo:lfnnnogttugtrooh,nneE7l6.t.h nst., in Curzon-street,
v., fCserb°
Ant,
On the 16th inst., Robert John Harrison, -u'''`l'' °
..cre'
On the 17th inst., Mr. John Groves, of ,-,`'3 Oord,
aged 86 f iGhp 0:1g:1°
On the 17th inst., at Kentish-town, -. 0. P
daughter of Major Baehild, of the Royal gargle 00
On the the 14th inst., at Woolwich, John WY* _7(
son of Captain J. IV. Mitchell, R.A. ;,--,10,;
~..n 'fo,u' 11" I
London : Printed and Published by v_' ,e ;4°.:ty 0
No 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sung v; 'CO".
Strand, in the precinct of the Savoy, ill '1
Middlesex, Wednesday, Afxrch 20,18'4'

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