The Sun.
London, England, 1850-05-28 00:00:00

______,....•
Ual..
gaup " of Lords, in order thit the Government might
the
shin,' , opportunity of laying the report of thetr Lord-
The
" eeoretaittee toore the HnAP.
e "ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER snid the
thqnsmittee on Missellaneons E :.inaate • exoressed a hepes
,watttitelese accounts and expendieure of the House of Lord
thin be Rlbraitced to a searching revision by a C' m.;
of that House. This revision was going on, and
tte sho 1
4 n d therefore oppose the motion.
• /NJ* IRIMB replied that the House had at present no
1 of thin searching investigation.
ine House divided. The numbers were—
. l'')I. Mr. flume's amendment ... . 48
Against it ..
110
••• ••• .•• ••
Majority against the amendment ... —62
The vote was then agreed to.
THE TREASURY.
eirsla the vote of 56,1001. for the salaries and expenses
the Trees
kr ~,. ury,
the , ' •t°RI3ES moved a reduction of 10 per cent. upon
the -itte °f 30,836/., being the amount of the salaries
the
e . assistant-secretaryclerks, and other persons on t
Ki'llbli3heleat. He e-frounded this motion as well upon
10.7.Pheapnss of the necessaries of life as.
for eco-
' tort of' the public burdens, and the necessity
he
upon the
th 3'. Such a reduction as he proposed would,.
h" °sitht,, greatly add to the popula-ity and stability of
due —l,3JestY's Government. He therefore moved to re-
e i-e 4)411 ve'e by the sum of 3,096/.
Atii
0° ouel HC.3II.)SON bogged to remark that the pron•
aeo f his constituents had gone up 20 per cent., notc
but lint c't any wrong which they had done to any class,
on a._
dee, ecount of the cessation of a wrong that. had been
sr te them. He considered himself, therefore, as a
`j'ff to le
A ROn. Gentleman.—(A laugh.)
44°1°4'1 I LITHORP said his Hon. Friend (Mr. Forbes)
; rose
steno. y. Properly exceted the sallries of the first and
t • -wordy or the Treasury and the Chancellor nf the
llittebheecl4" from his motion, because the salaries of_ those
loot or efacea were now under the consideration of S
ell 'utrinsittee. Ile thought, however, that the Chan-
adopt'l the
pledge himself to
Exchequer was bound to
.m.,,,__
be tile deei.sion of that Committee, whatever" . might
tsial!!l4 whatever reduction they might recommend idn the
s
tell;14 tiPon which the Right Hon. Gentleman an
t:tgues had fattened.
Set e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
_wrooulscl.
letlenter into the question whether her Majesty's A, i i
I had, grown fat or lean since. their accession to
40etiti-- k A laugh.) But if the Committee upstairs
high recernmend a reduction of the salaries paid to 1
ti,,;' Political officers, those salaries would be reduced
la_tl that time.—(llear, hear.)
titieiLIIIIIIE should not be disposed to agree to a Fe-
ted -"u of 10 per cent. in the salaries of the 45 juniorf
501
.etlur clerks, who were now in the receipt of
lerotme
i_',o2oo/. or 400/. per annum. He was faeourtahban
of
'bee
h'tseaction et the number of the clerks, rathe.r
in sslaries. lie trusted that some examination would
sitsttit,lited into their qualifications before clerks were
tr. e'l because young men very unfit to enter the
este.
tee, • Y were sometimes appointed. Was there any
se
ratt pot/ to have 20 messengers in the TieesurYe at a
1,, r to
of 2,3150
v'. hue CHANOELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed.
1111ttllehe,i3110°. Friend that the true principle of reduction
atter 'rasury was rather a reduction of numbers. than of
Dead!". A reduction of 5,800/. in the salaries and ex-
leg nuns of the Treasury bad been made within the last
%1". lie did not think the number of messengers
meet
'tie. es'
lell ACGREGOR believed that at the Treasury,eas.
'to at at the Board of Trade, there were too few m s
lit rB' instead of being a superabundance.
prowl said there
.were two circumstances at
6 wntch made it impossible to carry any motion
s %glacial reform. The first was the existence. of
boa`let Committee whose infleence upon the delibera-
„es the House I'w ld not venture to foretell; and
e(dieetld was, the ee
existence of the financial reformers.
'lael -"ra and laughter.) As long as those two ob-
fsetare.nsained, any motion for retrenchment was per-
Pae!!ntile, and he should therefore recommend his Hon.
itt'lettest° withdraw his motion.—(Hear, hear.)
. Itliait:Pß,.BES said that his Hon. Friend had stated
af. a, believed to be a melancholy truth, and. as it was
Atie Ilse to divide the House he would withdraw the
• •ee,
* 'ftel THOMPSON hoped the financial reformers
, oehi
• neathstaerer agree to any motion for a reduction coming
the II" other side of the Houee—(lronical cheers from
Sahettrinteetionist,)—prefaced, as he was about to say
ts6,ll°Y stopped him, by the assertion that it was
out
qth '' 'Von the sufferings of the country arising
slliste)re,cent changes in our commercial policy.—(Hear,
.kisaieta; 4he financial reformers were always ready to
u'a thiii.l'i° °PPosition to any such views, that so far as
* - Ity of t,
' 43 00,,, the country to bear the burden of taxation
its
'rerned it was vastly better ablo than everointowajays
thotsicle•-(Cheers ) This was no reasen why ec
erttintigelr;tb.jeoupsufrosrued, but it was a reason for not sup-
the .
retrenchment upon grounds to which
„kr, 1117IT•eformerscould not subscribe.—(Hear.)
!ad Gall protested against the doctrine of the Hon.
p, ant Colonel. He would support a proposal for
ttde tnY coining from any side of the House. The
stalitt. ietlsaeation at present before them was, whether the
titth, Riven everts more than was necessary, consider-
eitt, reetnount of businese done.
itstiei `'eRDEN wished th s House distinctly to tin_der-
fsitre4het was the difference between the financial re-
Z'te,, on his side of the House and those who called
tatlis,se'ses so, acting with the Hon. Member for I3uek-
ha Zshire. The proposition of gentlemen opposite
tlil'oat the no longer continue to p y.
is34ine salaries andwagges, because it no longer en
11 the bl • 'tithe blessings of a corn-law.—(Hear, hear.) That
• Ptopo • Principle on which they proceeded; and the
kiela 31\ton of the Hon. Member tor Oxfurd hire (Mr.
reduce the
,IIS,Yol?„', was simply this, that they should
;iaael„,.• -'s Made to all their servants, whether in yearly
let itsd e ) e ,
'ne -'1:11 week' ' wares and that they should not stop till
ters, °one down to the very postman, who delivered
r,fet,et 10a. a-week., Now, it was here that the financial
N1,,,--.::ra and the Protectionists parted company, and. he
,11 e the e
'ltot'ite willing that they should join issue on that subject
e:e country; for what would be the result if the
;''te reo,,iared that the wages and salaries of all public
9%4'5 should be reduced? The Government was the
.`i Parso "Ployer in the country. It ad 8,000 or 9,000
. Itt 48 etla
'i- the 11 PlOYed in the dockyards, and tens of thousands
'7.;oth'ost-office, besides an immense number cf persons
' etiL'sta 7, departments, and the proposition was that it
4 -11 4 dire th the countr of a universal d
h kitttae e eigne. ° of wage a
war
.—e(llear,
s 1 le) 11'43 reduction of the rate
. l'oti .14,5 had already pronounced that to b
4iAtra,_ a o",geat and unless gentlemen were prepared to
'Cate .-ht this principle in their own private eetsblish-
Or
' . At; -e. "Wanted to know how in common justice
,2,ate, 4th
k ~41 the (ley could propose to deal with the Government
i eke ts. ifferently from their own? .If they meant
ihitittlittiry,
e • 'ere should be a universal reduction of e
he would be no. party to it. He did not
,efdist Ivae necessary; he did not think it was just, and
eirf,, „ .
eo,,,'lat believe it was practicable.— (Hear, hear.) So
\th4Q the commercial policy of this country. disabling
,fore, ils g e. .
PaYin th same wages, or rendering labour
.tter t, e could positively say that in Yorkshire at no
rt 5t‘,,!,,,, had the people been ao well employed, or
''pets.)t 4,, 'triple remuneration as at present.—(Hear,
461Phs Clad when they measured the earnings of the
the amount of
:,- -.eh Y the comforts they enjoyed—
t:ii,'sges 11:eg power that the money they received received for
':set' alt, ic)!cotnanded, it was found that never were the
eine hs.ettee off--(Elear, hear)—while,
'stldtits `ll3g a tendency to reduce wages in Yocroksfbairref,rtohnle
'‘est we"' (luring the last 12 months had been all the
lee-Neal IV. When;:therefore, they argued
‘`qt -"ltti because the country was
‘1 • !la,,ss es should be reduced,
.14Neetli from our commercial policy, the facts were.s
~;;else 'ere. If the agricultural labourers were in
Lliesw_ state /rom others, why not employ them?
yjellit,,ere, abundant means of giving employment In the
"Cadie.mtal districts if they only increased production,
`(1/4riettght i
ph, a more capital to be expended on the land
f i otspe
Vie, era, )—but let them not.come to that House and
ha tt 'fat incluPtion of wages, on the ground that free trade
%Liles-e are, when all the facts went to prove thatli ite
• Issl'a het- Singularly successful.—(Hear, hear.)
Vges but ) therefore, go in with a-universal rectuction of
Mile 'was quite ready, to join with them in reducing
%I% the salaries, and making them more in accordance.,a
tatioe etccunt of labour performed. He would i
, I,‘t; 6.lllolnoting by every possible way true retreujeh-
' :la ka, " h 6 would never support them in giving what
Ots b3Le..ellthe
a spiteful, malicious vote, intended, in the
to
'S s,:"vrable and petty spirit of retaliation, inhor s )
%Kr /Itezrecle unpopular in the country.—(G eer .
tt:tlete,, rude
said these occasional conversations. on
14,baq,beeenied to create considerable disturbanceaopn.
:.'Cho. -"ea opposite, and their occupants always
-11 .in to be it ' than those Members
'a n -et 1 a more excited state
(lb° at, his side of the House.—(Hear, hear.) The
th, utabl
:'tftelt_of h e tieniber for. the West Riding had assures
,'' ee,.:ee I,,tre Prosperity of the country, and of the success
'''rknbjes' eat commercial changes which had taken place
(ll's 404 that were hardly referred to before he rotshes.
Illtriet Us, would bo glad, no doubt, to hear thathad a
a'- 5'
which the Honourable Gentlemanfiourishing
~",th,l's tei;:stY connexion was in a r
~'ke,„t: leer: sorne had been led tomoircleagine;buat.
11, ;,,,,,, other districts not in so flourishing
I.Nsnses;`l when the Honourable Gentleman told them
~,' ik•ti 'kaki 71°' lack of employment for labourers, he might.
the
Ohl ti ed the Hon. Member fur Manchesser if
that a
tl% taut r on. Gentleman, who was one of the most
111 utcl ? ,',sl°Ployers of labour, were not at that moment.
4s tialcise.ttli-iViter.) That was a circumstance he believed,
if Iti,4(ety,b ° lilted nature.—(Hear.) He did. not. suppose
• lOC he see for Manchester was so deficient in capital
N!‘4lltiefaltild.find it necessary to shut his large estate.
.„.Iko,lest, ta;„'"r• he believed there was no doubt of the fact,
life,,-solt wit"'Y it was a state of things that did)n not all
elk 44 NI w_li the-description given by the Hon. Meanitber
e, 4411, try,,,,e,.1,,t 'Riding of the general prosperity of the
4N,1"3' tilisreati hear.) The Hon. Memberh_a_rdoteeno.-
40Stst)eijask. en the line pursued on that (the P
- --e of the le
llts ittici th mese with respect to riaeltrreeTohrmmeenret..
tts 3, aid ey called themselvea financ. .
, etra••44s.4ell,o,thing of the kind ; but he believed they
:.kbatlot.ltillxl called
oreff.othr:ecrass—omore so than the gentlemen
.4 It
)1, Qtka,,theneselves by that name. What were the
.i_ls„kt:littitiehti,;illcitehseesizlaisses whom eva-
They found distress pr l
_.
the Honourable Gentile
4, 1 gfia -tia*es as the most important, via.,
.t a
544 'ef•eo The agricultural middle class was in a
)ea atisa , t'Y great distress—a, fact which the Hon. Gen-
-4e,• Nod would
tint Wish nfat deny. But the middle classes c.on-
'lV''''ttltreteei carnmerce and manufactures were also in a
oy., ‘.atate,
le --e Aibte ,An Hon. Gentleman sitting close to
ir ieosts that 113,_ eer for the West Ei ling had told the
• to
..'°Qo,ocnitneY had lost the last year not less than
l.lNilii."'d tai --(Hear, hear.) That being the case,
,:11es, had felt
around him, who represented the middle
;sly hat „17, felt it to be their duty to support measures
fe:rl'oe the rational retrenchment, not foundei, how-
' tile,, th% liv" narrow view that the Honourable Member
144rin ntist }tiding had asserted as their solo basis;
, ei„.-elses,„,ever brought forward any measure for re-
sei -ee, e -.eon ae - • of any particular
hilt, eat on count of the distress
thy, The of the distress of the middle classes
"e liortourable Member for Oxfordshire