The Sun.
London, England, 1850-03-05 00:00:00

~~.

ditr IV. SO ‘IERVILLE had no olikttion to the lad-
these words.
klela n(nlinent was then agreed to.
thr„4EYNOLDS pretested ag Li, at tl,e clause alto-
Ih,tSiwr•orcisllESlG ER
fellproposo to mit from t, tee
as-
kaee such tenant for .ot Ve lag a lesb
"• lea-ee at a rent, ors for to any estate of
toil, for live, 'renewable for ever, or estate quisl in
(et su
letihrl eh freehold in any lands, tenements, orte ,i,ier,eidbie-
)lttilt.3 which shall be rated on the last rate." a ireehow
fra,eoltee would observe that this
Vie ;se Of the value of 51., but a freweahsolndlcatini, as of
13tft.t," of Si. The Right Hon. Baronet the'Meni-
?sr,re Tamworth had shown the. .0 Committee, in
of th. t.) the former clause, how (AT:cutl7A a clause
ratio description was with regard to the power of
sna-
g which it gave t ) the guardians of the poor.
4nsgl,lleat to create fictitious votes; because
Sl., Cell It freehold which might n tie. of thevallioPearotyf
,)roetiurt:VY of 40s. or ander that sum, if he couli. only
'es hi,"" name to be placed on the' rate as holding...ae
ttl • 4' f the • l of 5/ would be entitled to vote..
%24 tie
espfel:ea that the charge would be much less if they
I;i'd the right on ft.( eholfers of inheritance;. but if
liiii,Zwed it to extend to fr. eholders fur lif s it ap-
I'lieh i? him that they would be. opening the door by
elee,o.a -10,, freeholders fir life would b, revived as
lion t',B: In ,sinuch as they would enablefth b • collu-
tsl4oo put upon the rate as holding freeholds of the
11:)h 41. lie submitted, therefore, to the Noble. Lord,
t ad expressed his objection to the 403: freeholder
b° 1k(1',4/i as leading to gr( at abuses, whether it would
bib's, to omit these word 3, and limit the franchise.
k.l.er,en.itled to freeholds elf inheritance.
h IRATTAN said the lion. and Learned Gentle-
board eg:,,stlll something to learn as to the power, of the
gad w.uardiaes. '1 he fact was that the &uartlianioislit a t
ower t make fictitious votes; they could
Ati.''g'o man upon the register.
'that lass; said, the true construction of
was
franee u; and that intended by those who framed a
I)%rty entitled to have a vote in ref. spe_et it,
tstie
rat,t,d'e ohould be a tenant fur his own 11 of
°'it Of the inheritance. if there were aanny estate
other
be haditaieh would convey the meaning more distinctly,
Sir Dn° objection to substitute them.
with t'h• TIIESIGER slid, on looking at the words,.
,_
'xPlanation given by the Hon. and Learned c
found his objection removed, and he would
Thetheret re withdraw his amendment.
SitpaQteliiaent was then withdrawn.
'Poet • TIIESIGER then proposed to leave out all the
114 pilter " hereditaments," in the 333 line, down to
P11,1,),-" 4.1 F." Instead of providing " that every male
fUll age, and not subject t ) any legal incapa-
tets'e should be seised of, or entitled for his own use
btin estate, 1 g
o% lesl ill or equitable (such tenant for life not
t 5 tin 44e, or assignee of a lessee, at a rent), oro
estate of freehold for lives renewable for ever,
„its 2nasi in tail, of such freehold in any lands,d
'lllll,-.ls, or hereditaments which should be rate in
11,11111.01;rEtte for the time being, under the said Acts for
of teLeffQctual relief of the destitute poor in Ireland,.
,4ly :" net value of 5/. or upwards, should, it
lestion'eglstered, be citified to vote at every
,ta,Uss.'„,°f, a knight or knights of the shire"—the
~;°uld run, in the latter pat t, that a. party
`;'' entitled, &c. (as stated in the clause), in any
814,
n"c",.nlents, or hereditaments, of the net annual
Zs r. or upwards, should be entitled to vote,". &c.
P,4ll;l'll.pahle ,dv,then propose to insert aft-r the word up-
Words "over and above all rents and charge
i'441115,5) na Zll,teorfyor in
important
to the same." They now
point. They all agreed in the
4ti t'f up for the deficiency which had
:ro:11 41 the count !constituency, and the question now
;P:owr,ll,`;ther, in creating a new freehold
b. 6 ,I;l,`'eS, they would take rating as the test, or have
,gitll°,- fide fieehold qualification of a certain valuee.
ee4l°% distinction had always been maintained b
the franchise in counties, in cities, and in boroughs,
''thi• tger having always been based on property, and
hkel4 Principle the Noble Lord at the head of the G0:44
:44 :tilt had invariabl adhered. Now, however, they
L'era Ve(l on to declare that property should no longer
b741,1--e evelsis of the qualification, though the Noblehad
hiliotai„,a so long ago as the Chandos clause,
~4tier toed the principle How would the matter stand_
'Aid '413 clause ? Clearly, that every person who
'll4 tt,bis name inserted upon the rate to the. value
;tsas°iTcl be entitled' to vote, although he might not
r -pliu °au farthing, because six months' possession,
~,-41)ett of the rents' or profits before the 16th of
i'lititim'es to be the ground on which a party was to be
ile_og-tihe kh:.regiter-el, and
.he would be so entitled al-
quray atudathpeatid6tnhonrfadtenissy,hatever between the sth of
and none might be due
t'ser i; that Period, because he might never till thefor-
pet 14 have been liable to a payment at all. Take
;44;,.' again, of a party with a lease for life renewable
s'4lor-i might be rack-rented, and possess, in fact,
rrtie sbilling'sgworth of beneficial interest in the prod-
"tt4i Yet would be entitled to vote if he were rate
,tteehlain, is
ose a person borrowed money to buy
and thenl mortgaged it to its full amount, such
be. put on the. register, and yet would not
a 141,7 farthing of beneficial interest in the land, and
it °llld Paupers would acquire the franchise. They
s43,tuar'h tr,c)uablY find landlords and mortgagees too ready
t Pay the rates at the time of a general election.
111?-8.44,tire principle on which the county franchise
lb had I would be destroyed. 11e feared the Noble
o"fron, changed his views on this subject. It was said
qeteter, jit tthh: nOnst Ant waste and renewal of our bodily
end of seven years not a particle of cur bo-
-11124',;;4"d; but the mental changes which men some-
tliht .h‘tt'e'sed were infinitely more extraordinar One
:051atiri2tsav the Nohhele Lord at the head of the
Conservative shield before
kJ:llll,4l'or_ throwing"' Act when assailed by the Honourable
)114 hi' r fel' Montrose and the very next night t ey
"„111.11a,,,N0b1e Lord' coming forward to suppor.t
la
101,1lielnteloto1y more destructive of the principle
rel Act than anything proposed by the
ikettlt"--(flear.) He could assure. the Noble
11.,•sethh "e viewed with great apprehension the course
lit„,Sots,;" ea •e- for if he went on loosening or
h7its•,.;„'llg the pursuing;
te the exigencies of the
7 (ht.."' wouldnsfinadcchimself at last dragged headlong
of those
and were
downward tendency in our in-
aerdat.were desirousa of infusing into them a
titut°ll.44°
to
ric
nleaven.—(Hear.) He called on the
h influences; and he called upon
'titatteetreittee, easitslateay such
a new 5/. freehold c0n-
ti,,t,04.;) to make it a bona fide one.
u• ITSSELL said, the proposal was to give the.
kLa of
to persons who had property valued a.
;Iq'ilttYPh,-",and were owners either in fee or who had an
;rlifa to that amount. He owned that appeared
• -,.,Tronosal not open to the objection urged by the
ttOt thit,-,," Learned Getleman; and except in the case
might be mortgages on property, he thought
ilea,,. and Le dG Gentleman hail entirely failed to
p.`")ll4k "tat a casearne(Hear, hear.) lie owned that he
4APell.„4„ellPiers.—ofrating, aud persons holding
rilop,'°l the yearly value of 5/., might be and were
might fairly be entrusted with the elective
11.11 did n Ireland. The Hon. and Learned Gentle
ip „not •• maintaining the Irish Reform
ti'ot'eektiolaiet blns inotshtlosgtritot)n,, but had concurred in making
No one denied that alters-
ketraWZntnerasiatry,awindto u on consideration the
upon consideration the
No one denied that alters-
t had come to the determination to
t4fttithe Principle ceommbodied in this Bill, which ap-
1014ssivt° thera to furnish a sufficient, but by no means
414 e rlonab elt er of electors, whose electoral rights
totem.) founded,,, on property.—(Cheers and counter
ace 110 did not mean to say eases of abuse would
Ctilts-rikil% hot did not they happen in England and
'1,4 Le a",,hiso? II bymeans served with the Hon.
Itri,ert'hecl &tomb° nothinking thlt these persons en
1i%°5111- „,,was pro oseerdinto confer the franchise would be
fiet:Nath,"„"houtpproperty. On the contrary, he be-
-IthiY, vollld be found to possess sufficient pro-
(11 (41 vt nat degree of intelligence and responsibility.,t
N pl,l Ithem worthily to exercise the fra
ki,e Itla•e s cd Member said that the
10°1 et t' and re dangerous the*
hp~ fro 1,, no Government was morn
e few nights ago by the Hon. Member for
defethia Ile would not now enter into a comparison,
'etldin would say, he did not think the best way o
bWtt°Or tittitons was to
.rhefute reforms which
lade,,,`!'ernselves useful, and whtc were founded on
yl
Arc4tlPles• He was told
line of
time of the Re
the
the Conservative of conduct was to
144,11 the 'Ala. He had, however, lived to see the time
111 `e
be reoyt Conservative statesmen thanked God
thi°rs:e had been swept away by the Reform Act in
tti °pi .°l4tinnary times. Therefore he had coment_ to
r
the ‘l4:Ateil with respect to this Bill and many h
w 1404, ----that those who conceived themselves to be
tspg!etsv.e°llservative were often the most revolutionary.rasetva
Iltistfturlyd counter cheers.) The best way to
111‘1°,,trtl LOns was to do away with abuses.—(Einar.).
lore MANNERS said the object of' this clause was
1,10. 4,eeholders with a Si. a year holding the right. to
111:aftatdis lion. and Learned Friend (Sir F. Thesiger)
light. tam the clause, as it now stood, not only gave
hi 4t4.
pet 3 that class, but also would bring on the res
r,sltllt:ll° who were not in that position.To this
era ,„".,etk.Fl,,,ble Lord did not address two words.
'"JRNE GENERAL said the effect of the
°Yet„ %e at
Would be to perpetuate the beneficial interest
11e ur which this Bill sought to substitute the more
1. Ntkri
1)t, .4k, on (4' rating.
ketaittelaLTON thought the property test ought to
tlt, itt.,„•
teee,eat.„'NOLDS thought the clause would encourage
tisti'Ktel,l4 of fictitious votes. There was no provision
et :s tter"etY rated should pay the rate. If he were
to
tat °le thine to this clause, he should call it a clause
I)ttp°,,llfse tureendlords of Ireland, without any . limi ,
PsB('. 45 many faggot voters as suited their
telA
Vist i'I)LEIR objected to the clause altogether, as
atitel°,,locrease the manufacture of fictitious votes.
renal 4 the meat proposed, however, appearedd him to
tof 40or to the most inconceivable frau s, and the..
Vits %doption would be to substitute the test of
or the test of rating.—(Boar, bear.)
pou..4ls‘ittee divided, when there appeared_
A Pl e amendment
13006
Ogatnat t
it
re •TR Majority ••• —76
thiltbiro ESIGER asked whether it was reasonable
litqklitlbe that a party should merely be rated without
it 6 that he should pay his rates? He did rpt
1414,14°4a5) and should therefore propose the following
I)tq'jzto s" the end of the clause:—" Provided always,
lat'''sioolloh Person shall be registered according to the
til3q hereinafter contained unless on or before the
by blet t, t
In each year he shall have paid all rates in
olch lands, tenements, or hereditaments due
thhotitcylously to the Ist of January preceding."
TillZut that addition was required in order to make
the h% 44,11sistent with a previous clause.
atilt 11j~e NEY-GENERAL said the provision of
ekteeetiti,,W, ass that if the party did not occupy, , he was
kt 4 the
to vote. Now the' owner, not beingin all
tittitv
10 l'ecupier, could not be rated, and could not be
'‘
..a, the rates due.

Si