The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-16 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY !EVENING, APRIL 16, 1850,

first charge of 2s. 60. as at present, but to make the
second charge 2s. 6d. instead of 355. That would cause
a emtsiderahle loss to the revenue.
After a short conversation,
C HANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Hon. Gentleman had not given notice of his proposed
amendments, as he hal of his clauses; and as his propo-
sition would involve a loss to the revenue, he thought
there ought to be some time allowed to consider it.
The CHAIRMAN asked whether the Hon. Member
intended pressing his amendment?
Mr. MULLINGS—I do.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had not had an opportunity of considering the proposal,
and only wanted time for that purpose.
Mr. HUME suggested to the Hon. Member not to
press his motion to a division under the circumstances.
Mr. ROEBUCK also said it was only fair to give time
for the consideration of the proposition.

Mr. HUME—Give notice. -
The amendment was then understood to have been
withdrawn, and schedule A agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved that schedule B should be agreed to. In doing
so he said he proposed to make a reduction of from one-
half to a qusrter per cent. He proposed to reduce the
duty upon bonds for any bum not exceeding 501. to from
sg. to 24. 6 I , and not, exceeding 100/. from 104. to 5.1.
Mr. GOULBURN said he did not approve of the
principle of an ad valorem duty being appliedin matters
of revenue. If they were prepared to go on with that
principle they would make the lower part of their scale
so low that it would entail considerable loss upon the
revenue, while they would be obliged to make the higher
part too high.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know whether it was to be
supposed just that the poor man, who only wanted to
borrow 101., should pay as much in proportion as the
rich one who wanted to borrow 10,000/.? The small
sum to the indigent person was of greater consequence
than the larger sum to the opulent man.—(Hear.)
Mr. GOULBURN said he had at an esrlier part of
the evening stated his opinion with respect to the bene-
fits derived by the community at large and the com-
mercial affairs of the country from affording facilities fur
the execution of securities for advances of large sums of
money. By imposing heavy burdens upon such trans-
actions they imposed restrictions upon the employment
of capital, which would act in a very injurious manner.
If they were going to fix an ad erloremiduty it should
be done so as to press lightly upon the lower party.
Mr. ROEBUCK said if the Right Hon. Gentleman
wished to make his rule from the bottom of the scale to
the higher part of it he would agree with him; other-
wise he would oppose him.
Mr. DISRAELI said if they adopted the ad valorem
duty, be agreed with the principle that the first step
ought to be moderate.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said at
present there was a duty on bonds exceeding 501. of 55.,
that he proposed reducing to 2s. 6d.; and he proposed
making a proportionate reduction on the present scale of
duties like that which he had stated. He proposed that
the duty on no bond should exceed 25/., no matter what
the sum. By the present law, if a trader or shopkeeper
wanted to borrow 5001., he had to pay a stamp duty of
121., while the party who wanted to borrow 500,000/.
only paid 25/. That was an injustice and an anomaly
which he wished to remedy.
After a short conversation, in which several Hon.
Members took part,
An Host. MEMBER (whether Mr. Mullings or Sir H.
Willoughby we could not ascertain) was understood to
move as an amendment that the sum of I s. be substituted
for 2s. 6d. in the proposition of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer.
Mr. DISRAELI said what they were then endeavour-
ing to do was to construct a new system, and while doing
so they should try to construct it upon a just principle.
—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor
of the Exchequer alluded to what was anomalous and
monstrous in the old system, as if they were responsible
for it more than himself, and as if that reference was an
argument for the course he had pursued on the present
occasion. The Right Hon. Gentleman argued as if there
were two questions before the House—namely, the con.
sideration of the interests of the rich and poor. As far
as he understood the matter, be conceived they were en-
gaged in au endeavour to be equally just to the poor as
well as the rich, and it was said the ad valorem system
ought to be carried into effect with respect to both. It
was necessary that in any initial step which they made
in that matter they should take up that position, that
while they relieved the poor as much as possible they
would impose no improper or impolitic burdens on the
more wealthy portions of the community. He should
support the motion of his Hon. Friend if he proceeded to
a division, as he hoped he would.—(Hear.)

Mr. ROEBUCK said there was another element in the
whole of that discussion which had been left out by the
Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire. They had a reve-
nue to raise. The Bill itself was a most mischievous
Bill—one t,f the worst that could be introduced. It was
one only for raising money, and as such he accepted it
under an impression of its direful necessity. But he
would put the question, what was to be received
by that Bill. If the House took his advice, they would
throw it out of doors altogether. It was a most mis-
chievous Bill, because of its interference with the ad-
ministration of justice, and could only be tolerated on
the score of the revenue which they were told was to be
raised by it. He would like the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer to tell them what would be the amount of re►e-
nue raised if they began with Is. instead of 2s. 6d.
Mr. BANKES said, that question had not arisen from
a necessity, but a surplus in the revenue.—(Hear, hear.)
It was that extraordinary incident of a surplus which
bad given rise to the present discussion.—(Hear.) He
confessed that his impression of that portion of the sub-
ject, when listening to the debate on the budget, was very
different from what it was at present. He had thou
heard nothing of an ad valorem duty.—(Hear.) He had
heard nothing but of some small relief applicable to the
land. But if he was in error it might be so. However,
they had now come, it seemed, t) an ad valorem duty;
and if it was to be an admitted principle, let them prove
how they were to act upon it.— (Hear.)
Mr. HUME said he believed it would be better to
begin at Is. than at 2s. 6d. He bad been informed that
if a considerable reduction was made in the amount of
those duties the humbler classes would very much in-
crease the number of their deposits in large offices; so
that the Exchequer would perhaps suffer no loss from the
a' teration.

➢lr. HENLEY said it should be remembered that
they were dealing with a surplus, and not with a defi-
ciency; and as, according to the calculation of the Right
Hon Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the
reduction from 2s. 6d. to ls. would only entail a further
loss of 48,0001., they should not be deterred from ef-
fecting that reduction by the apprehended loss to the
revenue.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was true they were dealing with a surplus, but if they
were to calculate too much on that surplus they would
soon lose it altogether. He proposed that the duty
should be reduced from 11. to 2s. 6d., and that would
surely in itself be a very liberal measure.
After a few words from Mr. Henley, Sir H. Wil-
loughby, and Mr. Mullings,
Mr. GOULBURN was disposed to think that as to
bonds and mortgages, being for the relief of persons in
distress, it was better policy to place the duty too low
than too high.

..
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For Sir H. Willoughby's amendment ... 164
Against it
Majority against the Government ... —29
The announcement of the numbers was received with
loud cheering.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER,

The CHAIR MAN reported progress, and the House
hen resumed.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
after the decision which the Committee had come to,
which involved a most serious loss to the revenue, and
which, if adopted throughout the Bill, would render it
impossible for hire to go on, he must ask the House to
allow him time to consider the course he should take.
Although the amendment applied only to bonds, the
principle involved mortgages and other things. He
should, therefore, take time to consider, and would post-
pone the further consideration of the Bill till Monday
next.—(Hear, hear.)

Mr. CARDWELL begged to ask the Right Hon.
Gent!enaan the President of the Board of Trade whether
the Bills relating to the mercantile marine would be pro-
ceeded with on Friday ?

Mr. LA BOUCHERE said they would not coma on;
as he proposed taking the Australian Bill on that night,
and be should not be able to fix any evening for their
discussion.

SECURITIES FOR ADVANCES (IRELAND)

BILL.

O❑ the order of the day for the secoad reading of this
Bill,

Mr. J. STUART said the present Bill was introduced
for the purpose of facilitating the operation of the Sale
of Incumbered Estates Act. He had, in the early part
of the evening, suggested that the House ought to have
some authentic information on the subject. That infor-
mation appeared to him indispensably necessary to
authorise the House to pass the Bill. He had com-
plained that his Right Hon. Friend the Solicitor-General
far England had discharged duties which did not pro-
perly belong to him. It was the duty of the Irish law
officers to attend there and guide the House by their in-
formation and advice. Now, they had not had
a scintilla of information from the Irish law officers.
Nothing could be more absurd in the course of legisla-
tion than that the party in charge of a measure, when
asked for information to guide the House as to
whether the measure was proper or not, should
declare that he was not in possession of any au-
thentic information. Whether the Irish Solicitor-
General had any information to give them he
had yet to learn. He had, in the early part of the even-
ing, asked three questions. First, whether any sales
hal taken place under the Encumbered Estates Bill ?
secondly, how many orders had been made by the Com-
missioners for the sale of encumbered estates, and how
many were cow in operation, but under which no sales
had been effect:d ? and the third question had reference
to the enactments in the proposed Bill by which parties
were enabled to purchase estates, paying only half the
purchase money, and without any personal responsibi-
lity for the payment of the other half. He did not think
that such a sale had been ever heard of in any country
in the world. He wished to know if any proposals had
been ma le to purchase estates on these terms ? He
paused for information.—(Hear, hear.) He thought
the House would consider it but reasonable not to al-
low such a Bill to proceed to a second reading until
that information had been obtained. Having given
the Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General fir England
due notice of those questions, and he having suggested
that the returns which would give that information
should be moved for in the usual manner, and hiving
refused to allow them to be moved for at once, it was, be
thought, only reasonable to move the adjournment of
the debate uutilthat information was furnished.--(Rear.)

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL for IRELAND and the SO-
LICITOR GENERAL for ENGLAND rose together, which
elicited much cheering and laughter from the Opposi-
tion benches; tho latter Hon. and Learned Gentleman
gave way, and
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL br IRELAND said
he felt it his bounden duty, notwithstanding that the
answer to these questions had been postponed, in conse-
quence of the personal affront to himself, to ray a few
werds.—(l.lear, hear.) With regard to the Solicitor-
General for England having the conduct of the Encum-
bered Estates Bill, he begged to say that the measure
was originated bythat Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man before he had the honour of a seat in that House.
(Hear, hear.) The subject had been long under consi-
deration with those parties with whom the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had advised in Ireland, when he
(Mr. Hatchell) had no expectation of a seat in tbat
House.—(Hear, bear.) With regard to the present
measure, although it had been introduced after be had
become a Member, still it was engrafted upon and formed
part of the same code. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man opposite must have been aware of that fact. With
regard to the questions he had asked, he was surprised
that the lion. and Learned Gentleman had not extended
to him the usual courtesy cf
.giving him notice, to pre-
♦ent his being caught by busty answers. Although he
(Mr. lia'ehell) had been charged with not having
answered the lice, and Learned Gentleman, the notice
of these questions had actually been given to his Hon.
and Learned Friend the ti,dicitor•.General for England.
He put it to the good feeling of that House whether that
was just or not?—(Hear, heai.) He could only at pre-
sent inform the lion. and Learned Gentleman, not
having had un opportunity of consulting the Com-
missioners, that sake had taken place, whether
they were five, or seven; or nine, he could
not say, but ho could say that the statement
might be seen. in any of the Irish or English
newspapers. With regard to the orders, they bad
been numerous, but be could not state the precise
number. The third question was, whether any sales
had taken place on the terms of paying half the pur-
chase-money. Now he must ask the Hou. and Learned
Gentleman whether he had ever read the Bill, because
if he had he wotißl find that there was no such clause
in the Bill. The purchaser was required to pay the
whole of the purchase-money into the Bank of Ireland,
and all he was then at liberty to do was to borrow half
on the security of the title.—(Roars of laughter, and
vociferous cheerini; from both sides of the House). He
hoped these answers would be satisfactory to the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman.

Mr. STUART hoped he would be allowed to explain.
He gave notice of the questions he intended to ask of the
law officer of the Crown who had charge of the Bill.
Finding that that Hon. and Learned Gentleman was
not informed on the subject, he thought it but due to
the Solicitor-General for Irelan'd to inform him of the
questions he had asked. He begged to assure him that
he meant him no discourtesy whatever. The 13th clause
of the Bill distinctly stated that one-half of the purchase-
money should no: be deemed a debt due from the
purchaser. _ _

- Mr. HUME hoped that the progress of a Bill that
was so necessary would not be impeded by the amend-
ment of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL said that the Honourable and
Learned Member had not satisfied the House that he
had read more than the 12th clause of the Bill. The
first clause required the whole amount of the purchase
money to be paid into the Bank. In consequence of the
whole amount of the purchase money being required to
be paid under the existing law, property was sold at a
great disadvantage. By that morning's papers they were
informed of a fine estate being sold for only 61- years'
purchase.
Sir J. WALSH appealed to the candour and fair
dealing of the Home not to force so important a measure
on at that advanced perod of the night. It was impos-
sible at that hour to bestow the adequate attention upon
such a subject.
Mr. ANSTEY hoped the Government would perse-
vere in urging forward the measure, which was one of
the best Bills brought forward for Ireland during that
sessiou. The Hon.. Baronet opposite, who now objected
to this measure, which was to enable more purchasers
to come forward, and thereby to procure for the owner
a higher price for his property in Ireland, had himself
complained last session of the existing law, by which he
said estates would he sold for an old song.
Lord J. RUSSE:GL hoped the House would not occu-
py any more time by the discussion of this question. We
have unfortunately got into a custom latterly, when a
Bill was proposed after eleven o'clock, of discussing for
a considerable time whether or not the Bill should be
introduced. The question was a simple one. If the
House meant to deinde that no Bill should be introduced
after eleven o'clock_ we might as well adjourn the House
at that hour. He did not think that that would be a
wise or convenient oourse.—(Hear, hear.) Let us, how-
ever, not argue the question from eleven to one o'clock.
Mr. DISRAELI, as a general rule, quite agreed with
the Noble Lord. At the same time-there were circum-
stances connected wi th the present measure which should
induce us to modify that opinion. The Noble Lord must
remember that the House had been engaged up to the
present time in the constant discussion of a subject of
a very different character. And as this was a
question of great importance, in respect to which
the Noble Lord behind him (Lord Naas) had
already notified his intention of moving an amendment
to the motion for the second reading, tie trusted that it
would not bo onside) ed unreasonable if they objected to
proceeding•with it at that late hour. He was most un-
willing to enter into a series of divisions for the purpose
of preventing the progress of any measure ; but he put
it to the Noble Lord to consider the position in which
the House would be placed if we comment. d the debate
now, and if the Noble Lord near him were to make his
statement against the passing of the Bill which ha con-
templated making. We should in such a case be kept
here mail four o'clock in the morning. That was a
course which he did not think would be fair or conveni-
ent for the House to take. By stopping discussion now
the Government would not succeed in advancing the pro-
gress a the measure, for that discussion would be taken
upon the next stage of the Bill, and in all the form and
sustained oharacter as the House would have had on the
second reading of it. This was no hostile movement
got up to prevent the progress of the measure, but the
reasons he had already stated wore, he thought, quite
sufficient to justify a postponement of the present
question.
Mr. HENLEY hoped the House would not fail'to
notice what had been stated by the Hon. and Learned
Solicitor-General for Ireland—namely, that this Bill
was part and parcel of the Encumbered Estates Bill of
last year. These measures proposed to deal rather vio-
lently with property, and it was therefore important
that the present one, at all events, should be well con-
sidered before it was passed into a law. They had al-
ready passed the Judgments Bill this year, which should
also be viewed in connexion with those other Bills. By
the Judgments Bill they had exempted for the future
land in Ireland from antecedent judgment. The Bill
would simply enable a man to throw over his passive
creditors, and to stand possessed of his estate as if
nothing bad happened.—(Hear.) Now could it be ex-
pected that any respect would be had for the large mass
of property in other hands, if puisne creditors were thus
treated? They had in the newspapers an instance re-
corded of a man who, under the operation of this Act,
bought back his own estate. Under the operation
of the three Bills, what chance would that man have
who refused to put his estate through that court, and
chest his creditors?—(Hear, hear.) If considera-
tion was to be shown to men who threw 20 or 30 per
cent. of their creditors overboard, what would Govern-
ment do for those men who slid not want anything of
the sort, but who wished to act honestly and fairly to
all? He did not think Government were acting fairly
to what he would call the honest part of the community
of Ireland. He was only anxious to call the attention
of the House to the statement made by the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman the Solicitor-General, as to the
reasons why he would not undertake this Bill.
Sir. G.' GREY said one of two things must be done,
either the Bill must be discussed on its merits, or the
discussion must be postponed. The Hon. Gentleman
(Hr. Henley) had made a speech on the merits of the
Bill—he should not follow that course, but he would
ask the House not to take the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man's interpretation of the Bill. As the discussion on
the merits was not desired he was willing to postpone it.
He must, however, remark that Government did not,
as stated, oppose the wishes of Irish Members, in this
matter. fur no Irish Member had yet signified, any
opinion. • If it was the wish of Irish Members, or, in-
deed, of Honourable Members generally, to enter on
a discussion of the principles of the Bill now, he
should not offer any opposition, though certainly
twelve o'clock was not the best time to commence
such a discussion. If time were lost it was not the
fault of Government, but must be attributed to the
course adopted by the Honourable Member for Newark.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said nothing was more un-
fair than the suggestion of the flon. Member (Mr. Hen-
ley) as to the intention of the Bill. There was' a class
which this Bill would particularly serve, and that was
the puisno creditors. There was . a class which it
would not serve, and that class was the great capi-
talists who hoped to go over to Ireland, buy land at less
gave way to his Hon. Friend, because
than its value, and sell it so as to make a profit.—(gear.)
Lord NAAS
he thought the question could he more satisfactorily dis-
cussed by the proposal made. But he hoped the House
would allow him to put off his statement for the present
until a more eligible opportunity.
Colonel DUNNE was convinced that the Bill, instead
of raising the Value of estates in Ireland, would depress
it, and he was sure that no money, as was anticipated,
would be lent on estates.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL would move that the
debate be adjourned till Thursday next,
Sir L. O'BRIEN wished an order to be sent to Ireland
to suspend the operation of the.previous Bill, a, it had
been proved that an estate had recently been sold for a
year and a half's purchase.
The debate was then adjourned till Thursday next,
MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND)._

On the motion for the second reading of this Bill,
Lord NAAS objected to the proposition.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said his object in moving the
second reading of the Bill was that he might have an op-
portunity of hearing remarks and objections before he
made his statement. He had no wish to press on the
Bill, but he thought it would be advisable to have the
second reading acceded to at the pre:ent time. He would
wake a statement with reference to the 'demerits of the
present system.—(Great interruption.) He would not
go into a long statement respecting the demerits of the
existing system in Ireland, as he was satisfied every one
acquainted with the existing system condemned it. The
present system was unequal and expensive, and he pro-
pored to remedy those defects by a central board and
superintendence. This system was approved of by nearly
every one who was a friend to Ireland, and every one ad-
mitted, to do any practical good, it was necessary 'to have
a central board. He promised to remedy the evils of the
existing system. The subject for their consideration
was, how they best could husband their resources, and

lessen, if it were possible, the amount of rates collected.
He believed that there might be a saving of 20,000/. a
year effected. The present subscriptions could scarcely
bo callei voluntary. Under the poor-rates not more than
one• half would be paid by the occupier—the other by
the owners of property, who now paid, or who ought
to pay, subscriptions for such au object. In 1848,
the sum charged upon the poor-rates for temporary
fever hospitals was 80,0001. This, however, was not a
mere question of economy—it was a question that in-
volved the first of charities—the attendance and care of
the poor. Various objections were made to the mea-
sure; but they were rather objections to details. He
wished fairly to consult the interests of the medical pro-
fession, of whom he could not speak but in terms of the
highest praise. He was anxious that the Bill should be
read pro forma, in order that he might introduce several
amendments.

Sir D. NORREYS had wished to save his Right Hon.
Friend the trouble of making a statement. The Bill
contained a dangerous principle—that of establishing a
medical board separate from the general administration
of the poor. Ile thought that all the medical charities
should be transferred to the poor.law board. He ob-
jected to the establishment of a medical board, as it was
only pandering to the vanity of the medical profession
in Ireland. Why did not the Governmeat exercise the
power they had under the poor-law in establishing dis-
pensaries and fever hospitals?
Mr. G. A. lIA MILTON said that there was a gene-
ral opinion that there should be a change in the ma-
nagement of medical charities in Ireland. lie suggested
that his Right Hon. Friend should withdraw this Bill,
which was a very objectionable one, and introduce a
new Bill, when they might discuss a Bill upon principle.
Lord 3. RUSSELL remarked the principle of the
Bill could be discussed afterwards, by having the Bill
now read pro forma. By that means they might dis-
cuss the best manner iu which medical charities might
be managed.

After—a
few words from Mr. F. FRENCH and Lord
BERNARD,
The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed.

The Process and Practice (Ireland) Bill, as amended,
was considered, and the amendments agreed to.
The Indemnity Bill was passed through Committee.

EXTRAMURAL INTERMENTS.

Sir G. GREY rose to move, in pursuance of notice to
that effect, fur leave to bring in a Bill to make better
provision for the interment of the dead in and near the
metropolis. The Right Hon. Baronet said the House was
aware that by an Act passed in the last session of Par-
liament power was given to the Board of Health, under
certain circumstances, to inquire into the state of the
burial-grounds in the metropolis and in other large and
populous places in the kingdom; and if the result of that
inquiry showed that the mode of conducting burials was
prejudicial to the public health, the Board was further
empowered to prepare a scheme, and submit the same
to Parliament, for prohibiting a practice so prejudicial
.to the public health, and substituting for it the system
of extramural interments. In the exercise of
these powers the Board, in the course of the last
year, instituted extensive inquiries into the state of
the burial-grounds in the metropolis and its neighbour-
hood, and in certain towns of the United Kingdom; and
they had prepared, in pursuance of the further powers
given to them, a scheme, which was embodied in the re-
port that bad now been some weeks upon the table of
the House, that scheme being applicable exclusively to
the metropolis and the immediate neighbourhood. The
board had considered this important subject in two
points of view—first with reference to the effects of the
existing practice upon the public health, and next its
effects upon the solemnity and decency of burials. At
that hour of the night (a cleaner to one) he should not
think of stating at length the purport or nature of the
evidence collected by the Board of Health, and which
formed the basis of the recommendations embodied in
the scheme contained in the report lying upon the table
of the House. That report had attracted much of the
public attention, and he believed that moat Hon. Gentle-
men were aware of the nature and purport of the mass of
facts which had been collected by the Board of Health,
and upon which their report was founded, as well as the
Bill which he had now the honour to ask leave to intro-
duce. [The Right lion. Gentlemen here read a passage
from page 50 of the report, giving a summary of the
facts which came under the notice of the board.]
Without entering further into the evidence con-
tained in the report, ho said he would at once pro-
ceed to consider the general recommendations of the
Board of Health. The substance of those recommenda-
tions was the 'prohibition of interments within the me-
tropolitan districts, and, as a consequence, a complete
change in the practice of interments. After considering
various ways in which the practice might be altered,
they recommended the appointment of a commission,
expressly vested with powers fur carrying out this object,
and which powers they then went on to enumerate.
The Bill which he had now to propose was based upon
this report, although it did not follow the recommenda-
tions of the board precisely in all their details. On the
present occasion it would be sufficient if he contented
himself by simply stating the main provisions of the
Bill, reserving matters of smaller importance and of
mere detail until the Bill had been printed, and placed
in the hands of Members. It was proposed in the first
instance, in accordance with the recommendation of the
board, to form a district to be termed the " Metropolitan
Burial District," the parishes to be comprised within
which would be enumerated in the schedule of the Bill.
They constituted the district which was generally known
as the " Registrar- Geaeral's District," with the excep-
tion of some outlying parishes, which, on account of
their locality and other circumstances, it was
thought right should not be included. For this
district it was proposed that burial-grounds
should be provided within or without the district
to be placed under the control and management of the
parties who were to be entrusted with the execution of
the Act. It was proposed further to give power to these
parties to take any of the cemeteries which had already
been established under Acts of Parliament in the district,
upon making compensation to the companies to which
they belonged, with a view to shutting up those which,
upon inquiry, should appear unfit to be continued as
places of interment; bat with regard to others making
use of them as burial-grounds to be established under
the provisions of this Bill. Every such burial-ground so
to be provided would, like all the great cemeteries hi-'
therto established, be divided—one portion being conse-
crated, with a suitable chapel, for the use of members of
the Established Church; the other part being left for in-
terments for persons of other religious denominations.—
(Hear, hear.) Power would also be given for setting
apart any portion of the burial-ground to the use of any
other Christian sect who, upon religious grounds, re-
quired a separate place of interment. After this, power
was to be given to the Queen in Council, upon the report
of the persons who would be entrusted with the execu-
tion of the Act, and after due notice, to order the dis-
continuance of all interments in the burial-grounds
and grave-yards within the district. And this pro-
hibition might from time to time be extended until
,the system of interments should be altogether
discontinued throughout the metropolis, with a
saving of the existing rigbts in vaults, but
having regard to the necessary precautions for
the preservation of the public health. The Bill
then proposed that the inhabitants of the parishes whose
burial-grounds might be closed under the operation of
the Bill should have the same rights of interment in the
new grounds as they bai in the present burial-grounds
within their parishes; and that power should be given,
without the expensive process called the faculty process,
to remove bodies from the old places of interment to the
new burial-grounds. The parties entrusted with the
execution of the Act would also be empowered to pro-
vide houses of reception for the bodies of deceased per-
sons—an arrangement which would be of peculiar be-
nefit to the poor residing in a confined atmosphere and
densly-crowded dwellings.—(Hear, hear.) One great
practical difficulty in the way of the adoption of a sys-
tem of extramural interment was felt to be, the placing
the poor in the same position with regard to distance as
they were at present. In order to remove this difficulty,
means might be devised and provided for the convey-
ance of bodies to the places of interment, and for con
ducting funerals in those grounds at specified and mo-
derate rates.—(Hear, hear.) A large portion of the
revenue of the London clergy was at present derived
from burial fees; and justice obviously required that
compensation should be given both to the clergy and to
the official persons who were connected with the exist-
,ing burial-grounds for the loss of fees which they
would incur by the proposed change of the law. With
regard to the clergy, looking at the large proportion of
iheir incomes which are composed of those fees, it had
been thought necessary to continue the compensation
to them beyond the existing incumbencies, as in some
parishes the clergy would be left almost without the
means of support ; but power Would bo given for re-
vising, from time to time,, the matter of compensation.
With regard to clerks and sextons, and other officers, it
was proposed that compensation should be given to the
tenure of the respective offices which they held, The
Board of Health, in their report, stalled that the re-
ceipts for the interments in the new burial-grounds
would be ample to cover all the expenditure to be in-
curred under the Act. But as it would be necessary to
make provision for the immediate purchase of burial-
grounds, and for other expenditure, before any large
amount was received in the shape of fees, power would
be given to borrow money on the future payments under
the Act, and also upon the security of a rate which they
were to be authorised to levy, and which was not to ex-
ceed the annual amount of Id. in the pound, in the event
of the fees and payments being insufficient for the ex-
penditure. With respect to the parties to be entrusted
with the execution of the Act, the Board of Health
had recommended that a commission should be specially
constituted for that purpose. There were, however, ob-
vious objections to the creation of a new commission,
unless some indispensable necessity could be shown for
it; and it was thought by her Majesty's Government that
the members of the Board of Health were fully compe-
tent to the task; and upon the whole, in the first in-
stance, the very best parties for effecting the recommen-
dations which they themselves had made. To a gnat
extent, also, the existing staff of that board might be
-made available for the new Act. It was proposed that,
instead of constituting a new board, one paid member
should be added to the present board; and it was thought
that with this addition, and with the help of such sub-
ordinate officers as might be requisite, that board would
Le competent to establish a system of extramural inter-
ments throughout the metropolis.—(Hear, hear.) The
House was aware that the Board of Health had only a
temporary existence, the period for its duration not
being extended beyond August, 1953; and it might
therefore be necessary eventually to continue the opera-
tion of the Bill by some other agency. This circum-
stance, however, afford( d a security that before the powers
of the Board of Health expired the attention of Par-
liament must be called to the working of this measure,
and an opportunity would be afforded for correcting any
defects which experience might have discovered in its
operation. Before he sat down he wished to express the
sense which he entertained of the ability and efficiency
with which the Board of Health bad discharged the

duties imposed upon them, and of the value of that great
mass of information which they bad collected and em-
bodied in their report. The thanks of the public were
especially due to the Noble Member for Bath (Lord
Ashley), who, as an unpaid member of that board, had
most assiduously and usefully devoted many months of
his valuable time to carry out the objects of the board,
and to obtain information on the subject to which this
Bill referre I. He (Sir G. Grey) would wily express his
cordial concurrence in the hope expressed in the con-
cluding paragraph of the report of the Board of Health,
that their inquiries and recommendations might prove
eminently conducive to the public health, by leading at
no very distant time to the discontinuance of the great
evil of intramural interments.
Mr. LACY asked whether the sum of 112,0002 a
year would be required for keeping up the establishment
created by the Bill, and what would be the probable
amount of rate necessary to be levied?
Sir G. GREY said those were matters of detail that
could .be more.conveniently discussed when the Bill was
before the House. The amount of the necessary ex-
penses could only b: estimated ; but the penny rate was
proposed Merely as a collateral security, the Board of
Health aaticipating that the lees and payments received
for burials would cover all the expenses.
Lord ASHLEY observed that it was confidently
hoped that there would be no necessity whatever fir the
rate, and 'it was merely proposed as a matter of secu-
rity, and to enable the Commission to raise the neces-
sary funds.
Sir B. 'HALL expressed his obligation to the Right
Hon. Home Secretary for having brought forward this
question, and hoped the Bill would very specdily pass
into law. He wished to ask whether the commissioners
appointed to carry out the measure would he required
to lay their proceedings and accounts before the House?
Sir G. GREY replied that the Bill provided that ab-
stracts of their proceedings and accounts should be an-
nually laid before Parliament.
Mr. WYLD hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would
take measures for abolishing the post-horse duty charged
upon horses engaged in conveyihg hearses.
Leave was then given to introduce the Bill, which was
brought in and read a first time. •
The House adjourned at a Quarter past One o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY DI VISIONS.

(From the Yates and Proceedings of the House of Common's

MONDAY, ♦PRIL 15.
STAMP DUTIES BILL.
(IN THE COMMITTEE.)

Schedule B (Bond in England or Ireland and personal
bond in Scotland given as a security for the payment of any
definite and certain sum of money not exceaing 504) :
Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Duty be
two shillings and sixpence :"—Afterwards, Motion made,
and Question put, " That the Duty be one shilling." The
Committee divided: