The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-19 00:00:00

INDIA.

Mr. MACAULAY inquired what had caused the delay
in the presentation of the papers ordered respecting ti.e
[ate occurrences iii India.

Sir R. PEEL said he was sorry if any defy rad
taken ;place. but he had not been certain whether the
House would get the papers printed or not.
• The SPEAKER was understcod to say that they
should be printed by the Foreign Office.
Sir R. PEEL again said he was sorry for the delay.
POOR-LAW (SCOTLAND).
Mr. E. ELLICE, junior, inquired of the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir J Graham) when would the Commis-
sioners of Poor-law Inquiry in Scotland send in their
Report ?

it J. understood front the Noble Lord at
the head of the Commis.,ion that the report would be
ready to be laid before the House soon after the recess.-
THE TARIFF—FOREIGN RECIPROCITY.
Mr. RICARDO rose to bring forward the motion of
which he had given notice, to the effect—that an humble
address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her
Majesty will be graciously pleased to give directions
to her servantsnot to enter into any negociations with fo •
reign Powers which would make any contemplated altera-
tions of the tariff of the United Kingdom contingent on
the alteration of the tariffs of other countries; and hum-
bly expressing to her Majesty the opinion of this House,
that the great object of relieving the commercial inter-
course between this country and foreign nations from
all injurious restrictions-will be best promoted by re-
gulating our ewn customs duties as may be most
suitable to the financial and• commercial interests
of this country, without reference to the amount
of duties which Foreiga Powers may think it expe-
dient for their own interests to levy on British goods.
The effect of the course which had been hitherto pur-
sued was altogether unsatisfactory. Hawing signally
failed in obtaining their object by means of nego-
tiations to extend their exports, it became them

to inquire whether they might not arrive a
the same end by simple legislation on their
imports. The treaties which were in question
in 1842 were those with Brazil, with Portugal, Spain,
and France. The fate of the first of these treaties had
been most pathetically described by the Right Hon.
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade. It was
now Nearly understood that the result of all these pro-
tracted negotiations with Brazil was a handsome propo-
sition on the part of the Brazilian Government
not to raise the duties on our commodities more than
25 per cent., in return for concessions on our part. What
the concessions were the Right Hon. Gentleman had not
shown; but he ventured to say, however preposterous
were the proposals of the Brazilian Government, those of
our own Government were so in a four or five-fold degree.
Great as was his rc spect for the abilities of the Noble Lord,
at the head of the Foreign Department, and of the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government,
displayed, as these last were so conspicuously, in making
a good case out of bad materials, he could not imagine
what arguments they had used in order to entice the
Brazilian Government to adopt the course which they re-
commended. Certainly a proposition to reduce restrictions
would not come well from a nation which had imposed a
duty of 400 or 500 per cent. upon Brazilian produce.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) A convention for the sup-
pression of slavery was one thing, and a treaty of com-
merce was another, and if slavery were the ground upon
which they voted, he would suggest to the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it
would not be best togrant compensation to the Brazilian
slaveholders, as they had done to the West Indian.—
(Hear.) In Spain they had done more than negotiate.
The Government of Spain cannot but know that upwards
of 300,000 of her people are employed in smuggling,
and in smuggling only. And yet with every circum-
stance apparently in our favour to assist and encourage
our commerce, it was a fact that we were further off our
point than ever. British influence had never been so low
in the Peninsula as at the present moment. - The next
commercial convention which had miscarried was
that with Portugal, and he need not now
point out the derangement in the wine trade
which had been occasioned by it. Owing to this
circumstance alone there had been a diminution in the
usual quantity of wine, amounting to not less than
s,oBo,ooogallons. Those interested naturally-remonstrated
on the subject, with. the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
but instead of redress their position had been aggravated
by a fresh impediment, which had grown up to a reduction
in the duties on wines, in the shape of a drawback
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had granted to
the merchants. So that before any arrangement can be
made with Portugal, for every one shilling of duty that
may be reduced an enormous sum of money must be
paid by us as compensation. This was what had
been happily termed by the Honourable Member for
Taunton (Mr. Labouchere) always ending, never ending.
The Hon. Gentleman then referred to a paper which
had been laid on the Table of the House, containing a
valuable series of commercial tariffs drawn up by Mr.
M‘Greggor. A French gentleman, Mons. Saint Ferrier
had laid down the system of commercial policy pursued by
France. Amongst other things, he should that in the
negotiations of France with England, most of the con-
ditions proposed by the latter should be avoided. The
French Government had lost great sums of money in
fostering its own manufactures, which they might have
had at less expense from other countries. It was usual
to introduce some clause relating to commerce in most
treaties. There was such a clause in the late treaty with
America. Lord Ashburton had a clause introduced that
the agricultural produce of Maine might be admitted on
the same footing as the produce of the American colonies.
But, Maine being now as much a portion of the Uuited
States as New York, the other States might claim to
have their corn admitted on the same terms as that of
Maine. The Right lion. Baronet had admitted
American rice on the same terms as the rice from the
west coast of Africa. The Right Hon. Baronet admit-
ted, in answer to a question from the Noble Lord, the
member for London, that great difficulties existed in ne-
gociating commercial treaties, and that even greater dif-
ficulties existed in negociating them where constitutional
goverments, and the representative system had existed.
It was unwise and impolitic to wait to see what
other countries would do. It would be better for them
to commence with their own custom-house. M. Guizot, in
answer to a question put to him by one of the
Members of the Chamber of Deputies announced
his intention of not following the ignis futuis of com-
mercial' treaties, but would adopt such measures as
might be necessary for the welfare of the
country without reference to foreign couutries.
He also said that the modification of tariffs
would produce all the benefit desired by all par-
ties in extending their commercial relations. If this
were true, no person could find fault with him (Mr.
Ricardo) for not bringing forward him motion before.
With respect to Russia, a country which was surrounded
by protective duties, he should say that their trade was
much greater. The imports from that country amounted
to five millions sterling, while the exports amounted to
only 1,600,0001. It was asserted that this balance would
have to be paid in gold, but he considered that a
profitable trade could be carried on in gold. He thought
there was no supernatural attribute in the word gold.
The exports to Russia during the year 1841, consisted
chiefly of cotton twist, sugar, coffee, wine, rum,
and such articles, which came from the bonded
warehouses in this country, where they were sent
by the Brazilians, who received in return cotton
woollen and other manufactures from England. If they
could not find Ministers bold enough to carry out those
principles which would tend to abolish restrictions which
crippled trade, they might bid adien to the greatness
and prosperity which this country had so long enjoyed.
He hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would be not
content himself with contemplating the present years of
plentiful harvests. He trusted, that the same causes
which were in operation in past years were in operation
now, and it was possible that they might have years of
scarcity again. He hoped he would throw aside all the
old principles of protection and monopoly, and see the
absurdity and injustice of forcing the people into such
costly sacrifices. He trusted that their Ambassadors
would receive instructions to tell the different Courts of
Europe that Great Britain had aroused herself from her
delusions, under which she had so long labOured; that
she now knew she could not sell without buying, or buy
without selling, that in using the productions of other
countries they were only using their own in another
shape. He hoped they would be able to sry that all the
ports of the country were opened, and that the only
limits to their commerce were those which they them-
selves imposed. He concluded by proposing his motion.
Mr. EWART seconded the motion. In referring to
the history of commercial treaties, he asked what
good result had this country ever obtained from them; ?
The first treaty to which he would refer was the cele-
brated Methuen treaty of 1703, which was for a long
time the wonder of the commercial world. The effect
of it was to introduce into this country a taste for
the wine of Oporto, which then superseded French wine,
that until then was the only wine consumed in England.
The next great treaty was that which was concluded with
France in 1786, by Mr. Pitt, of which it was said that it
was so advantageous to the English nation that the
French ought never again to make a commercial treaty.
He turned from our own country to other countries, and
he asked whether the the reduction of the duty on im-
ports had not been highly beneficial. The most obvious
country in reference to this part of the question was the
United States of America. For a long series of years,
while the United States of America was steadily pro-
gressing, their imports largely exceeded their exports.
and the attention of one of the most acute observers of
human nature, Dr. Franklin, was turned to the subject.
He said, that if the importation of foreign luxuries
could ruin a people, they, the Americans, would proba-
bly have been ruined long ago, for the British nation
had clpimed and exercised the right • of
importing, not only the superfluities of her
own production, but of ever nation under
heaven. But setting aside these questions of the past,
the simple question was, whether they were likely to
succeed in future. There appeared to be no approxima-
tion on the part of France towards a commercial treaty
with this country. He believed that there existed in
France, and in almost every nation in the world an
extreme jealousy, of English commerce. The same thing
prevailed in Germany. He did not believe that the
United States contemplated any approach towards a

commercial connexion. Our future connexion with them
could only consist in our throwing open our ports to
them, and taking whatever we want( d, convinced
that they would in the end take from us what-
ever they wanted, in return. He did not think
that the . answer of the Minister would be
satisfactory to the country. The mind of the country
was made up on the subject. The French Government had
given a decided answer on the question, and her Majesty's
Government ought to take the same course, and relieve
the commerce of-the country from tjie mishaps occa-
sioned by the uncertainty.
Mr. GLADSTONE did not think it would be difficult •
' to show the House sufficient reason for refusing the
motion. Whether he should be able to answer the
Honourable Gentleman to his own satisfaction,
he did not know, for he did not quite under-
stand the terms of the motion. He thought he
could satisfy the House that the motion ought not to be
conceded, and that without disputing or even referring
to a great many of the lion. Gentleman's statements.
The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the negotiations
which had taken place between Great Britain and other
countries. Now, he (Mr. Gladstone) did not think
it necessary to enter with him (Mr. R.) into the policy
of these negotiations. He did not think it necessary,
because if he agreed with him that all these were use-
less, still he had not made out a case for a notion so
broad as this.

(LEFT SPEAKING.)

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 18.
Their Lordshivs met at Five o'Cleek.
The Bishop of BANGOR .presented several peti-
tions against the union of the sees of St. Asaph and
Bangor.