The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-20 00:00:00

that Government, and he was there to repeat his solici-
tation to the present Government, when new circum-
stances had arisen, and when the case had become more
urgent. The first view which naturally presented itself
to their eyes, was the number of universities in existence
in Ireland. The College of Maynooth had no preten-
sions to be called a university, still less the academy of
Belfast. He would ask whether any other country in
Europe was similarly situated to Ireland, with respect
to her universities. Was there any other country where
there was but one university to 8,000,000 of inhabitants.
He looked round him, and directed his attention to Ger-
many. He found that in Germany there was an aggre-
gate of not less than forty universities. He found that in
the smallest States in that country there were large and
flourishing establishments. If he looked to Prussia, were
there were only twelve millions of inhabitants, he found
that there were not less than six universities. He looked
to Belgium and to Holland, and he found that the in-
habitants were better provided with respect to the uni-
versities, in proportion to the inhabitants, than in Ger-
many. He found that there were four universities, and
in Belgium four. In Belgium there were two millions and
a half of inhabitants, and in Holland there were four mil-

lions. In Holland there were in the universities 900 students,
and in Belgium, 1,400. In France, too, it was the same—
there were universities all over France. Even in Italy, in
the Pope's dominions, which had been so much vilified,
there were five secondary universities, and two principal
ones. In the small state of Florence there were not
less than ten universities. So in America. From north
to south universities were continually rising up. In a
few days they would be called upon to vote an estimate
for not less than four universities, while that country
did not contain more than two millions of inhabitants,
and in Ireland there was but one university for eight
millions of inhabitants. It was said that this must ne-
cessarily be a Protestant university, and therefore it was
impossible to convert that university to Catholic pur-
poses. There was a misconception on both these points
—misconception with respect to the original character
of the endowment, and misconception as to the
means by which it might be converted. It
need not be converted to Catholic purposes, but it should
be open to national purposes, whether those pur-
poses were Protestant or Catholic. The University
of Dublin was generally supposed to have been founded
by Elizabeth. This was partly true, but the foundation
established by Elizabeth was only an atonement
for the loss of the ancient University. The old Uni-
versity of Ireland was founded in the year 1312, by
John Elyard, Archbishop of Dublin, who obtained from
Pope Clement V. a bull for its foundation. After a
considerable time that University fell into disuse, and it
was supplied by other institutions for the learning of the
people. In the year 1475 the University was re-
established in the capital city of the kingdom,
in consequence of a memorial which was addressed to
Pope Pius IV., who issued a bull, authorising the new
foundation. This Catholic university obtained the ap-
probation of the monarch of the day, as well as of the
holy see. This university continued in existence until
the confiscation of the monasteries, when it fell with
other institutions in Ireland ; and it was not again es-
tablished till the time of Elizabeth. It continued in ex-
istence during the successive times of trouble, and
during that time the preservation of the library and
other valuable parts of the institution was principally
attributed to the Catholic members of that university. In
1703, however, an Act was passed by which Catholics were
excluded from that university, and this Act had re-
mained in force down to the present time. Students en-
terinz
.the university were, by the present rules, com-
pelled to take the Sacrament, and give other proofs of
their being members of the Protestant persuasion. Now,
the same authority that had established those rules,
could, if it thought fit, repeal them ; and there was no
reason why there should not be added a number of Ca-
tholic fellowships to those now in existence. He would
now proceed to inquire what were the funds and the
means within their power of extending the benefits to
this institution. He had not been able to get at any
accurate account of the funds of this College ; the re-
turns did not state them, and, therefore, he (Mr
Wyse) had been compelled to get indirectly such in-'
formation as he could. The chief funds were derived
from land, not less than 231,000 acres in extent. The
exact value of this land he knew not, but its general
state of cultivation and improvement was, he be-
lieved, about equal to Bishops' lands in that
country. Still they had an immense estate,
the product of which must, even under the most disad-
vantageous management, be exceedingly great. Next
to the revenue from land was the revenue from fees,
which amounted to 5,6091. 15s. This sum was from
fees. Here then were the means of extensive usefulness,
had they the power and authority by law to effect it.
They had that power by special Act of Parliament. By
the 14th and 15th of Charles 11., the Lord Lieutenant,
by and with the advice of his Council, had the power to
erect from these funds another college, to be called
King's College, and the endowment of the said college
was to be regulated and governed, not by the old law of
Elizabeth, but by such laws and institutions as her
Majesty might think fit. Therefore they had the power
to establish another college, and they had moreover the
power to establish new institutions, different from those
which otherwise might prevail, and which could be made
in perfect consonance and harmony with the habits,
manners, and opinions of the present day. Now he
would turn to his second point. They had a Roman
Catholic population to deal with in Ireland. They had
admitted that that population ought to be educated—
that the whole population of this great country ought to
be educated, or why had they for sessions past—why
had they this very session—voted money and passed
laws for this very purpose?—(Hear, hear.) And they
had declared, too, that all education to be sound should
be religious.—(Tory cheers.) Then, ought they not to
be most careful of the religious education of this
religious educator?—(Cheers.) Ought they not to
afford the very best means in their power to educate the
priests of Ireland that the people of Ireland might be
educated too. And yet all they did was give them May-
, nooth—a miserable hovel—and to dole out a few paltry
pounds with the niggard hand of cold charity.—(Hear.)
He asked Honourable Gentlemen on the other side, set-
ting aside all political questions, to consider the
subject, and see if something could not be done
to remedy the grievances of which the Catholics
complained. But then it was said this could not be
accomplished. He said that it might, either by
annexing Maynooth and the College at Belfast with
the University of Dublin, making the college at Dublin
the proper place for the education of Protestants, May-
nooth for Catholics, and Belfast for the Presbyterians ;
by that means they would link the professors of
the different religions in Christian brotherhood. But
it might be said, would Maynooth agree to this ? or
would Dublin allow a new intruder, or become the
abettor of Presbyterians ? There would be nothing of
the sort ; he could not see why the same course could
not be adopted with respect to the University of Dublin,
and Maynooth, and Belfast, as had been done with re-
spect ,to Oxford, King's College, and the London Uni-
versity. He would aggregate the three, giving to each
of them the power of conferring degrees in everything
except theology. He did not think the college of Belfast
would object to this ; and if, upon consideration, it was
found impossible, there was no other course left en
but to establish a Catholic university in Ireland.—
(Hear, hear.) If they would not give them the first,
they owed them the second. There were places in Ire-
land where universities might be established ; in Cork
they might lay the foundation of Catholic instruction.
He wished to lay these observations before the Right

Hon. Baronet, knowing that at this particular moment
it would be impossible to take the opinion of the House
upon the question, nor indeed did he wish to do so ; he
would leave it for the present session in the hands of
the Right Hon. Baronet.
Sir R. PEEL said he believed he was stating what
would be in conformity with the feeling of the House,
and of both sides of the House, when he said that no
Member of that House was better entitled to take up
the subject than the Hon. Gentleman. He knew that
no Member of that House had devoted more time and

attention to the subject of the best means of spreading

the advantages of education throughout the country.
He must also say that the Right Honourable Member
had another qualification, besides that of experience—
the high qualification of discussing the subject with that
temper and moderation which ensured, amidst all the
animosities that divided them, an impartial and favour-
able consideration of the question. He rejoiced, then,
that the Hon. Gentleman had brought forward this mo-
tion, and that he had made his observations in a manner

that precluded him from taking the sense of the House
upon it. The vote they were now discussing was one
for English education, and he presumed the Right Hon.
Gentleman had made his observations on that vote so as
to preclude them from coming to a hostile decision, and
he rejoiced that the House was not to be called on to
give an expression of its opinion. The Right Honourable
Member had alluded to the state of elementary educa-
tion in Ireland. It must be admitted that the
state of this elementary education was satis-
tisfactory. Her Majesty's Government had manifested
a desire to add to the efficiency of that system. The
vote last year for the national system of education was.
40,000/. They proposed in the present year to ask for
an addition of 25,0001., making for the present year the
sum of 75,0001. Within a very short time, there had
been a report laid on the table of the House, signed
by the Commissioners, which stated that the number
of schools was 2,721, attended by 319,792 children,
the increase of attendance in the present year over the
last being 35,000. The report also stated that the un-
founded impressions that prevailed with respect to this
system of education were rapidly disappearing. So
far, then, the state of elementary education in Ireland
was a subject of congratulation. With respect to the
other subject, he had great satisfaction in assuring the
Right Hon. Gentleman that it was one that occupied the
serious consideration of her Majesty's Government. They
Hon. Gentleman must excuse him if, on this occasion'
he purposely forebore from making any statement on
the subject, not because he was not prepared to enter
into details; but it would be impossible in the course of
the present session to submit any practical measure on
the subject. It would be infinitely better to avoid al-
together entering into such details, which must be stated
many months before they could be carried into
effect. But he had no hesitation in stating the result
of the consideration that they had given the subject—it
was, that the means of academical education in Ire-
land were very defective.—(Hear, hear.) There were
institutions in the character of universities—Trinity
College, Dublin, the Belfast Institution, and the College
of Maynooth. As far as the education of the laity was
concerned—the academical education of those of more
advanced years than were intended to be included in the
national system of education—when they compared it
with the means of education and the population of other
countries, it was impossible not to see that those means
were comparatively deficient. He did not at all under-
value the effect of the upper cltpses in
,Ireland being
educated in the universities of England. It was a bond
of connexion between the two countries. The Hon.
Member had not proposed any plan on the subject;
and this was a reason why he should ab-
stain from expressing an opinion as to a preference.