The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-17 00:00:00

VACCINATION.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE asked the Tice•President of
the Board of Health when the Committee on Vaccination
agreed to by the Gpvernment during the last session was
to be appointed.

Mr. iSOIVPEEt said he proposed to bring in this ses-
sion a bill similar to that of last year, and then refer it
to a select committee, with the understanding that the
committee should report on it. He hoped to bring in
the bill in a few days.
Mr. BRADY said the answer was so satisfactory
that he withdrew his question of a similar nature.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
Lord ROBERT CECIL asked the Secretary of State
for the Home Department whether it was his intention
to bring in any bill for the purpose of giving effect to
recommendations of the Committee which sat last ses-
sion on the Ecclesiastical Commission.

Sir G. GREY said that a bill was proposed for the
above purpoBe. He would give notice of its introduc-
tion on an r arty day.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.
Mr. M`MAIION asked the Secretary for the Home
Department whether he had any reason to expect that
the commission for inquiring into the administration of
ju,tice would make a report in time to found a measure
thereon this session ?

Sir G. GREY said the commission was now sitting,
but that as he was not a member of the commission, he
could not state when the committee would be in a posi-
tion to report.
THE NEW GOVERNMENT OFFICES.
Lord R. CECIL asked the Chief Cotnmissionerof
Works whether the judges of the approaching competi-
tion, with reference to the new Government Offices,
would be appointed before the day en which the plans
were sent in ; also, whether he intended, i❑ appointing
the judges, to confine his stlection to those who were
unentaogled by any personal connection with the pro-
fession, or whether he intended to include among them
practising architectF.

Sir B:HALL said tbat he proposed to appoint
as judges gentlemen unconnected with the pro-
lesion of engineers or architects, and who were in no
way conn..?cteu with gentlemen competing.
EXPULSION OF JAMES SADLEIR.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for Ireland proposed
the foil swing resolution :—" That James Saaleir,•Eeq.,
a member of this house, having been charged with
divers frauds and fraudulent practices, and bills of indict.
ment for certain misdemeanours having been found
against him, anct warrants issued for his apprehension,
and the said Janes Sadleir baying failed to obey an
order of this house that he should attend in his place oa
Thursday the 24th day if July last, and having fled from
justice, that the said Ja4. Sadleir be Exp 11:d this bouee."
In doing so he thought the time had now arrived when
he should ask the house to accede to the above resolu-
tion, and remarked that the house in former
times had. fx3reised a simil it authority on technical
and legal grouous, and also where none tx'sted, but
where the house cOnsidered their dignity had been com-
promised. Refer:rig to the records of Parliament he found
that In 1580 Mr. Hall was fined, imprisoned, and expel-
led the house for having published a. book reflecting on
some of its members ; in 1606 the then member for
Buckinghamshire was expelled for having used words
of " 'obloquy and scandal "—(laughter)—ha 1620
Mr. Sheppard was expelled for using profane
language ; in 1628 Sir E. Sawyer was expelled
for informing a witness that as his evidence would
not be ' taken before a committee on oath, he
need not tell anything that had passed between
them. The right honourable gentleman then
referred to precedents of 1642, 1667, 1668, 1715,
1720, 1722, 1732, 1810, 1812, and 1814, when many
members were txpelled for contempt of the house. He
then ea Ltd attention te the circumstances of Mr. Sadleir's
case, referring to the facts in order of date, and the diffe-
rence of position Mr. Sadleir now etood in to that he did
in Jtily last. Everything bad been done by the consta-
bulary of Ireland to apprehend Mr. Sadleir, but without
effect, and there could he no doubt but that he had
left the country. In August last be took measures of
outlawry against Mr. Sadleir, that individual having
answering to the indictment, clear his
omitted on two occasions the assizes
--to ap-
pear,
catnedr: by
yOu Friday lest he received a letter from a
gentleman, signing his name James Scully, and dated
from Paris, in which the writer said that on Wednesday
he-met Mr. Sadl-ir in a restaurant in the Paiais Royal,
where he understood from the keeper that he dined
every clay. His countenance was much altered, that he
had lost flesb, and that his appearance was disguised with a
moustache of a formidable character. Mr. Scully was
allnown: to him (Mr. Fitzgerald), but: be believed he
was a gentleman respectably connect 4, and formerly
resided in Tipperary with al ample fsrtune, but owing
to the failure of the Tipperary Bank, had been ruined
and drawn from his country. No doubt the question
would be asked why the Government had not
arrested Mr. Sadleir in Paris, and be would anticipate
the question by auswerizi that the Government could
not do it, because his c +se did not come within the
treaty between the two countries signed in London op
the 13th Feb., 1843, and made law under 6 and 7 Viet.,
arest him
h sh o
u that
in
France,t be Government e r
o frn,
C. 73. The cases that came within that treaty were mur-
der, attempted murder, forgery, and fraudulent bank-
ruptcy,r
iefettuf had
dn o righteighaelre, tot
d demand
eitherantdo
from the tl;verlnnintebut of France his txtradition from
that country,
that, n
waspowerless
are(siplect the Government of this
tytn,dhe
.6:
cuubin 309 he learned from hitti
country
bad replied to Mr. Scully
accordingly,
to the
to the contrar
known the contents
of his letter to the noiseo makeei
trary he
"wolig, and as lie had
known. He (sir. Fitzgerald) ClLileovile
not heard from hi,
made them
liat Mr. Saeleir
had by his own cor.dnot imposedp
than what
uni4tilitnini self _voluntary
exile, which would be a heavier
the law would have inflicted on him, endet
by calling on the hone to vindicate its honouorngyl
ex-
pelling Mr. Sadleir.
The motion having been seconded, concluded
Sir F. THESIGER said he thought there woulfbe
no difference of opinion on that occasion as to the ex-
pulsion of Mr. Sadleir, but it, was necessary to know
before they added another to the list of disagreeable
precedents—(hoar, bear)—on what grounds they
were proceeding, and be asked what additional infer-

mation they bad now to go on that the house was
not in possession of i❑ July last! (Hear.) He did not
think it discreet in the Government that, knowing where
Mr. Sadleir was to be found, they should inform him of
it through the press, with the addition that he was per-
fectly safe, because his case was without the treaty of
ex•radition. (Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK complained c,f the conduct of the
Government in giving Mr. Sadleir time to run away, and
that the Government had not interfered earlier. AP that
the Attorney-General for Ireland had stated to-night he
(Mr. Roebuck) informed the house in July last. He
said that the time was come when they ought to look
round and see who amongst them was open to such a
charge. (Hear, hear.) It was necessary to the honour
of the house that they should expel every member who
did not on theoutburst of such charges rush to meet them.
Such men were unworthy the nonour of being represen-
tatives ; and sympathy for such persons did not redound
to the credit of the house, nor of those who defended
them, whether openly or secretly. (Cheers.)
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL defended the conduct
of the Government, and said that they had gained
everything by the delay. It was at his request that
time was given in July last. The delay had not got rid
of this denunciation. The Government had not com•
mitted itself by stating that the treaty with Paris
did not meet this case. It was not a " secret treaty"
—(laughter)--but one that such men as Mr. Sadleir
were no doubt well. acquainted with its details, and
Paris was the most pleasant capital a man could, under
such circumstances, reside in.
Mr. WHITESIDE addressed the house, contending
that they ought to have expelled Mr. Sadleir in July
last. They had obtained no new facts since.

After some further discussion, the motion was agreed
to.

SUPPLY—EXCHEQUER BONDS.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
the order of the day for the house going into committee
of supply was then read.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, before
moving that the Speaker do leave the chair, said it might
be convenient if he stated, for the information of those
members who might not be familiar with thesomewhat in-
tricate rules of the house on the subject of money votes, the
course which he proposed to pursue with regard to the vote
which he intended to propose. The act under which the
Exchequer Bonds were borrowed contained a proviso
authorising the money secured by such bonds to be re-
paid out of such money as should be provided for by Par-
liament, and Government could not be provided with the
means of paying the 2,000,0001. Exchequer Bonds now
due without going through the forms of the house ; first,
by vote in committee of supply ; next, by a vote in com-
mittee of ways and means ; and, thirdly, by a Ways
and Means Act, covering the original vote of supply and
the vote of ways and means. The national faith was
pledged to the payment of these Exchequer Bonds, and
he did not anticipate that the house would resort to the
plan of disoharging their obligation by re-bonding. The
statement which he made on Friday last was in committee
of supply, and wag contrary to the usual practice of
making such statements, and he concluded with a mo-
tion for a committee of supply for the payment of these
2,000,0001. Exchequer Bonds, and that was the only me.
tion which he intended to propose in the presentcommittee.
For the convenience of the house he had circulated on Fr:-
day last his resolutions on the income tax, together with
the scale of duties which he intended to propose on tea
and sugar. By some accident, for which he was not re-
sponsible, these resolutions were not printed as a sepa-
rate paper, but were mixed up with the votes. They
were now printed correctly. He mentioned this for the
purpose of guarding the house against these resolutions
in committee of supply. They could only be moved in
committee cf wa s and means.. Whenever the house
should agree to the resolution relating to Exchequer
. bonds, it would be competent to them to appoint a com-
' mittee of ways and means, and then he should have the
opportunity of submitting his resolutions to the house.
The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving that the
Speaker do now leave the chair.
Mr. DISRAELI said there was acommon understand-
ing on Friday night that on the present occasion an op-
portunity would be afforded of discussing the proposi-
tions of the Government, and if necessary of taking the
sense of the house on those propositions ; and in look-
ing at the votes on Saturday morning he observed the
resolutions to which the right hon. gentleman had
alluded, which, if brought forward as then announced,
would have afforded the opportunity of considering the
financial arrangement of the Government. But on com-
ing down to the house to-day he found that the paper
had been changed ; and, although he accepted without
the slightest hesitation the account of the inadvertence
which had been given by the right hon. gentleman, still
it must he admitted that great inconvenience had arisen
from the mistake. (Hear, hear.) It appeared to him
extremely desirable that an early opportunity should be
given to -the house to enter upon this discussion.
(Cheers.) If the resolution respecting the Exchequer
Bonds should be now agreed to, it might be reported
to-morrow, and then an opportunity might be afforded
of considering the financial propositions which had been
submitted by the right hon. gentleman. If that course
should meet the views of the Government, he would
take the opportunity of moving as an amendment the
resolution which he now begged to read to the house :
" That in the opinion of this house it would be
expedient, before sanctioning the financial arrange-
ments for the ensuing year, to adjust the estimated in-
come and expenditure in the manner which shall appear
best calculated to secure the country against the risk of a
deficiency in the years 1858-9 and 1859-60, and to provide
such a balance of revenue and charge respectively in the
year 1860 as may place it in the power of Parliament at
that period, without embarrassment to the revenue, alto-
gether to remit the income tax." It was his intention
to propose that resolution on tke report being brought
up, and then the discussion on the whole budget could
take place. (Rear' bear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said if
the right hon. gentleman preferred to make a statement
at once the house would be quite ready to hear him.
Sir J. PAKINGTON apprehended that it was not in
the power of his right hon. friend to move any amend-
ment in committee of supp!y.
Tne SPEAKER said that if there was a committee of
ways and means the resolution might be moved, but in
committee of supply, according to the rules of the house,
no such resolution could be moved. (Hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE understood that the right hon.
gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not in-
tend to move any resolution in committee of supply, ex-
cept that relating to the Exchequer Bonds. It would
follow, therefore, that the navy estimates would stand
over until a future evening. (Hear, hear, and No, no.)
That was at the root of the whole matter. (Hear.) He
was not prepared to vete for the Speaker leaving the
chair in order that the house should have an opportunity
of considering fully the financial proposals of the Go-
vernment-. (Hear, bear.) He should be sorry to sit
down, because if he were to do so he should have no
power of addressing the house again. (" Hear, hear,"
and laughter.) He was, therefore, un wiLing to lose or
surrender the 'vantage ground until he could ascertain
how the matter stood. (Hear.) Under present circum-
stances it appeared to him that the subjects of supply
and of ways aed means were, for the purposes of debate,
essentially the same. Tne Government with perfect pro-
priety, in def rence to the sense of the house, had con-
nected these subjects in the statement of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer. It seemed to him, therefore, to be a
fair demand on the part of hon, members that they should
have the power of discussing the question as a whole. That
demand he ventured to make with all due respect and
humility, but with as much urgency and conviction of
duty as any demand which he had ever made. It was
es•entisl to the right di=charge of the duties of hon. entn-
te re, with regard to the finances of the country, that
there should be an opportunity of fully discussing the
propositions of the Government, and he apprehended
that it was beyond the possibility of doubt that if they
proceeded to take any vote upon the navy estimates they
would lose the opportunity of discussing the whole
scherae. He for one cool I not consent to the Speaker
leaving the chair for the purpose of going intocom ,ittee
of supply, unless it should be distinctly understood that
the exchequer bills resolution was the only one then to
he moved.

Lord .1. RITSS'ELL trusted that before the question
was put the Government would declare whether they in-
tended at once to go into the navy estimates or not, It
appeared to him that the proposition of the right hon.
gentleman the member for the University of Oztord was
a very reasonable one, and he did not conceive how the
hot:ee could, with any propriety, go into the navy esti-
mates and vote several large sums, and then 0)1118 down
on another occasion and discuss the question of the
general expenditure. If a proposition should be made
to go into the navy estimates, he ehould feel it his duty
to propose to the house the adoption of such a course as
would induce it t resume. (Hear.) _

Lord PALMERSTON said as Flush a course did not
appear to be palatable to the house he would not take the
navy estimates tbat night.
The house then went into onnrnittee, Mr. FITZROY in
the chair.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the following resolUtion :—That a sum not exceeding
2,000,0001. be granted to her Majesty to pay off and dis-
charge Exchequer Bonds issued under the provisions of
the act 17th of Vic., c. 23, and dated the Bth of May,
1854, which will be due and payable on the Bth of May,
1857.

The motion was agreed
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER before
referenceproceedi to the termsngtoofferto
of the
thecommimttoeteioann, explanation with
had been given by the right hon.
genotfletnwahri which
hopuPootsiictee
(Mr. Disraeli), wished to advert to a point to which
the right hon. gentleman (&tr. Gladstone) referred on
Friday night. The right hon. gentleman then asked
whether he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had in-
cluded in his estimate of the taxes remitted in 1853 the
sum of 165,0001., the loss consequent on the change of
the law with regard to bills of exchange. That amount
was accurately stated and included in his allowance.
There was, however, one stun, being the produce of the
reduction of the assessed taxes of 1854, which he had
included in the taxes remitted in 1853,, and which ought
not to have been included in the total, inasmuch as the
charge was announced in 1353. Therefore the amount
which he had mentioned ought to be rectified by the
omission of 220,0001. He now came to what he under-
stood to be the material point raised by the resolution of
the right hon. gentleman, as to the supposed deficiency
of the revenue for the two years.after the ensuing year, to
be created by the financial plan which he had submitted
to the house on Friday last. He did not understand that
any allegation was made that the estimated revenue for
the ensuing year, beginning April 1, was likely to be de-
ficient. What he gathered was that his financial arrange-
ments would cause a deficiency of revenue as compared
with the expenditure in the years 1858-9 and 1859.60.
Now, he held in his hand the best estimates which he
had been able to make of the revenue Ad expenditure
of these years, accordieg to the plan which he had sub-
mitted to the house, For the year 108-9 he estimated