The Sun.
London, England, 1868-05-22 00:00:00

THE SCOTCH REFORM BILL.

Mr. DISRAELI said a decision had been come to The
other evening by the house, on the proposition of tho hon.
member for Montrose, which had rendered it neceass ry
that the Government should consider the position
in which such a decision had placed them.
When the Government had determined not to
uphold that proposal they had not received much sup-
port. On Monday night two important decisions :tad
been arrived at, which affected the subject of the distribu-
tion of seats, and were opposed to the proposition of the Go-
vernment. Her Majesty's Ministers had no desire to treat
Scotland in any niggardly spirit, but the house in coming
to its second decision affirmed principles of a very dif-
ferent charact,r. The motion of the hon. member for
Kilmarnock, if adopted, would establish household suf-
frage without any qualification in a country where
householders did not hold houses. (Hear, hear.) He
thought that the decision of the committee ou that occa-
sion was arrived at under a feeling of misapprehension, as
after the motion cf the hon. member for Mon-
trose it war thought that the house would report.
progress. But, iu his opinion, the house proceeded and
arrived at a precipitate conclusion, and that with but a
very limited attendance of members. The course he pro-
posed, under the circumstances, to pursue on Monday
next was to induce the committee to reconsider the decision
it had arrived at somewhat hastily. (Hear.) He did not
propose to ask the house to restore the two clauses which
had been disapproved of, but what the Government pro-
posed was to move the insertion of words in the bill to pro-
vide that no eleetor for any of the burghs of Scotland should be
entitled to vote who was not rated to the poor and paid
his rates. (Hear, hear.) Such a proposal if agreed
to would not infringe the English principle. (Hear,
hear.) It might be said that the Government
by taking such a course was proposing new principles
to the people of Scotland, but in reply to that he had only
to say that such was not the case, as they were using the
language of the act relating to the mode of voting as re-
spected the poor law in that country. Such a course he
thought would vindicate the principles of the English bill
and enable them to carry the Scotch Reform Bill; to a
happy conclusion, and that within a very few days. (Rear,
hear.)
Mr. P. WYNDHAM odd it was the opinion amongst
several of those who sat around him that Government
under all the circumstances would have resigned ; but
not having done so it seemed to be the desire of her Ma-
jesty's Government to adhere to a course which would
draw down upon them the contempt of every
right-thinking man, and which would render
Parliamentary proceedings in a short time almost
contemptible. It was said that the Opposition
did not treat them with forbearance and misrepresented
their views, but the fact was that the Government decu-
pied the not enviable position of place without power
(hear,hear)—which he thought was not enough to satisfy a
noble ambition. (Hear, hear.) They put forward principles
one day which they withdrew the next. (Hear.) There
was a limit to forbearance—(hear, hear)—and he had to
tell the right hon. gentleman that there were many who
would not cons ent to be any longer dragged through the
mud—(hear, hear)—let the position of the Ministry be
what it may. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT thought that if as appeal to forbearance
was made to them by the right hon. gentleman on the
subject of the Scotch Reform Bill, be ought to be quite
ready to make the same concessions to them on the sub-
ject of the Irish Church. If the right hon. gentleman de-
sired smooth water, lot him not himself disturb the pool.
(Haar, hear.)
Mr. BOUVERIE denied that the division on Friday
night was the result of any sudden or hasty impulse. On
the contrary, it was the result of a long and careful deli-
beration of the members for Scotland. (Hear, hear.) He
thought the course of the Government was degrading to
the Crown, disgraceful to the Ministry, and destructive
to the privileges of the House of Commons. Ho thought
that the policy of her Majesty's Ministers was one he
could designate by no other term that of legerdemain.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. HARDY hoped, after what had taken place, the
Scotch bill would be either thrown out or withdrawn.

Mr. HIBBERT thought that, whatever alteration was
made, a proposal ought to be introduced into the bill that
those who sought to be exempted from the rates should
not be placed upon the register.
Sir R. KNIGLLTLEY said he was induced to tolerate
the present state of things only by the desire to put a stop
to the present disturbing state of things. He had a great
desire tspa see the Scotch ant! Irish R,forin Bills passed,
and if the Scotch members really desired to pass their
Reform Bill, he did not see how it could be accelerated by
turning out the present Ministry. (Hear, .hear.) Ile had
no desire to maintain the present Government in power
for a di), longer than was necessary. (Hear, hear.) Pass
the Scotch and Irish Reform Bills, and then turn the Go-
vernment out the next day if they thought fit.
Mr. RENDALL denied that the decision taken by the
member for Kilmarnock was the result of a d -.liberate
conclusion. It was, ho contended, altogether a catch veto.
(11-ar, hear.)
Sir G. BOWYER condemned the conduct of
the hon. member for Kilmarnock as derogat,ry
to the dignity of Parliament. Ho thought
that the proper course to pursue was not to go on bandy-
ing charges, which if persevered in could not but disgrace
the house, and also the honour of the country. He
could not see, although it had been ruled as being
within the privileges of the honourable member for
Montrose, the justice of a proposal which endeavoured
to benefit the representation of Scotland at the expense

of that of England. He thought the right honourable
gentleman had only done his duty by asking the
house to reconsider the determination that had been arrived
at the other evening. He considered the last division a
chance division, and therefore he felt much satisfaction
that the subject was to be again submitted to the decision
of Parliament.
Colonel L. LINDSAY also strongly condemned the im-
putation of mean and paltry motives to the Government,
who ho believed were acting under great difficulties, and
at great personal sacrifices. He repudiated all sympathy
with the speech of Mr. Wyndham, whom(luoting a passage
from the Spectator) he compared to the "raw dug who
might yelp his heart out without any notice being taken
of him," and urged the Government nut to give way until
they had passed the Reform Bills.
After some remarks from Sir 11. VERNEY, who taunted
the Ministerialists with having supported measures which
they believed to be disastrous,
Mr. 11A.RDY retorted that if those who had indulged in
offensive imputations against the Government really be-
lieved them, they were grossly neglecting their duty by
not taking immediate steps to put an end to so discredit-
able a state of things. "For a decision of the house on that
point," Mr. Hardy said, provoking loud cheering, "I long,
and if 1 am called on to vindicate my personal or political
honour I shall not be wanting." The Government were

quite prepared to meet any charges brought against them
in a shape which permitted a reply, and with groat
warmth he defied any one to allege that in his public GA2-
duct ho had acted dishonourably. He confirmed Mr.
Disraeli's statement that the vote on Monday was a sur-
prise.
Mr. OSBORNE thought that the amusing process of
" baiting a Minister" might be carried too far, and he held
that those who talked so loudly of the honour of Parlia-
ment, instead of raising these miserable discussions, should
put their charges into a definite shape. He had no sym-

path', with the Government, but if he thought as Mr.

Bouverie did of their motives he would lose no time in
moving a want of confidence; and Irastead of interrupting
public business Mr. Bouverie ought to do this or to sup-
port Mr. Sergeant Armstrong's motion. But he hoped no
vote of want of confidence would be moved, for the
sensible course was to pass the Scotch and Irish Bills, and
to get rid with all speed of this miserable Parliament.
Mr. MONCREIFF brought this animated conversation
to a close by inquiring whether the Government would
state what other alterations they proposed to make in the
Scotch Bill, but he received no answer.

Replying to a question from Mr. GRAPES,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
meant to go on with the Electric Telegraphs Bill, and
suggested a morning sitting.

Mr. M'EVOY asked whether, in the event of Parliament
being dissolved, and an appeal made to the present con-
stituencies, he would in the new Parliament propose the
disestablishment of the Irish Church, to which Mr. Glad-
stone, protesting somewhat against the nature of the ques-
tion, replied that under any cireumstances Le intended to
adopt every legitimate measure to forward the great
object which he had taken in hand.
The house went into committee on the Election Petitions
and Corrupt Practices at Elections Bill, and much time
was taken up by a discussion (on a motion by Mr. Den-
man to report progress), which turned entirely on the
principle of the bill. At half-past ten Mr. Disraeli offered
to consent to report progress, stating, in answer to a ques-
tion from Mr. Denman, :that the GoVernment desired to
pass the bill in its entirety ; but so strong a feeling was
expressed in favour of going on at once that Mr. Denman
withdrew his motion, and the house went on with the
clauses. On clause 5, Mr. Mill proposed an amendment,
the effect of which was to give the tribunal power to in-

quire, not only iuto contested election,, but all cases where
corrupt practices aro alleged to have prevailed. On a
division it was rejected by 219 to 74.
At this point the further progress of the committee was
suspended.
The Reformatory Schools (Ireland) Bill was passed
through committee.
Some other bills advanced a stage, and the house ad-
journed at a pallor past ono o'dock.