The Sun.
London, England, 1850-04-24 00:00:00

THE SUN,

'ere entered at the tno Universities were invested with
°l3' orde
we_ rs• The Universities ought to be the seats of
meat )fanggenerally, not confined to particular brance h
,o`t`uY, atid he hoped to see the day when the ihtproec
he had suggeeted would be fully carried out.
sii4Ymel got into debt very freentl at theyniver-
lives
,whicell Weighed them down during all their future
knew instances of clergy men not.
ebeerinegte&i: paytehetheir debts incurred at the
knee' "tit an advanced period of lite. lie
alien man who had spent 2,0001. during his
asvetaf ce.„, 84 an university; and he dared say
their Ai:Lemberg in that House had covered
father's tables with bills incurred by them at tee
raversifies
tnisei 4 •He objected, too, to the distinctive ac,aile-
taeear.csaes which the different students wore a, the.
effetie•eity ; he
thought there should be no dis-
llneeril u 1 this respect among the students.
liaise ad these circumstances he hoped the
Whit h
ilwould consent to the Commission of inquiryn
gone Proposed. The Honourable Member
tries of „ reading his motion, given above, amidst
sir riear, hear."
by
c'•1,11. INGLIS complained of the course taken
king fe '°l3. Member for North Lancashire in draq;
the "rward tee corporations in the Universities in
leffltaanner which he had _done, without any grounds
dre4egiven for having done so. In a pamphlet ad-
thebpothe First Lord of the Treasury, he believed
toerft! of indictment which the Hon. Member wished
Itteed.ug„,against the Universities was pretty generally
thet the the first proposition of the Hon. Member was,
.
eecuce. interests of religion and education bad not ad
autete 1? the ancient Universities to an extent commeni
Ilteefhwith their great resources ; but not one word o
o.thisetata:lint2ae Hon. Member brought forward to support
ese--`ut• He did not mean to deny the right of
otiititf'os'cru of visitation, but he did not allow the uncond-
s_cf 111141 right that the Noble Lord at the Leda
44
tleeotnthe.
bdstebe Governrnent should choose a Member here and a
While,' there, as it suited him, to form a Commission,
supervision of the Lord Chancellor; that was
The
right of visitation which he could not
consitee-uhee Universities had, from the earliest ages, been
aad aced the nurseries of the Church of England,
that respect, therefore, he differed from the pro-
--at"
?met down by the Hon. Member. He considered
blatte`ulaent had no power to interfere in spritual
pamphlet connected with the Universities. That
dee e contained what he would not other-
use
ever Ignate than mistakes. No oath was
1%37 telt, en by the students; it was abolished in
the Vicesl lieu of the oath, they were admonished by
the lee,ellancellor to obey the statutes. He warned
tit)! hme Lord (Lord J. Russell), and indeed his saga-
-1104. Zi already discovered it, that the real object of the
letter t,raber was to facilitate the admission of Dis-
of the Into the Universities. It wan really a question
of la admission of Dissenters into those seminaries
Yea Cee'eug• This was not a new question. In the
°Ccupiupon the presentation of a petition, it had
ken. three days of discussion in that House. The
fore petition he thought, from the Dissenters of Brad-
„ote Yorkshire. They claimed a right of admission
Lhe /1.-sc'e,folleges except one. He denied that right.
~aeleeetti bee majority of the colleges had the greatest
ellen " proof their property respectively from Protestants.
tad rtrhclerty the Protestant Church,
Was to the uses of
hawaseb, members of the Church of Rome could not
" claim admission. So propert con-
'hereetu the uses of the established Episcopal
auY # could not be reasonably enjoyed by
it *es ono
members of that communion. Again,
leek te'aid that colleges were necessarily confined to
filet
teat tutors from amongst their own fellows, and
tta% 4t
system was fatal to the production of eminence
tlekegtet them. But neither the fact as stated, nor the
Hell lem taken from it, was true. The system worked
t,':tteeetters an enumeration of the acquirements of the
,
tnfll4l shove. It was described es a hardship that
tate, cra Were compelled to remain unmarried; but the
te,,,tsr!ialth
eough chosen from the fellows, were not ne-
tteh; eto remain unmarried; for, although a tutor
!jail eClve up his fellowship, he was not required to re-
had o:8 tutorshi. Many of them were married. He
ertiefi4l that morning received a letter from one of them,
e etasdea wife and three charming children.—(A. laugh.)
far tetle-ts"uw Surrounded by his colleagues the members
the ief; Universities, and they would be able to give all
ilteef''rolation that was required, without any special
t,t;th ordinary commission of inquiry. Another charge
e`th43tel-tau• Gentleman wee that the university career
I,llsilitnnesined up in fey' words, as it consisted in
but eating dinners, going to church, and
silie,,,e.ueeks. Now, what did young men go to a
Ass; ~BuY for but to read books? Was it not a
their"ti their duty? Ws it, not equally a part of
attee,utY to go to chur ha?•—/ Hear, hear.) And as for
ileelZ) dinners, that was an inevitable necessity.—(A
• tritAttd The prof( ssional system of education was more
14sfere to the infancy than the maturity of learning.
keel: thec invention of printing it was almost the only
tiee-tia' diffusing the knowledge of various branches of
ractiLll` and courses which required the illustration of
eoyter" experiments could now only be properly fol-
uP by that system. The University of Oxford
le foci' lean almost abolished the professional system
i'llteeelr? of the tutorial system. That University con-
efoUreand-twenty colleges, and each college was
4.sitY within itself; and professed to give a com-
ae coots®
of education. He felt totally at a loss to
44,44.4' for the apathy evinced by many of the old
of that of Oxford University, who were now Members
b,`") the "Ouse, and in this ease he alluded particularly
e " Noble Lord. (Lord John Russell), who should
thatchl'illitia,cf the first supporters of such institutions, in
he regretted to say that the Noble Lord was on
tinai:e'aut occasion too quiescent. He should, conel.u-
ja fTt tijay that from his knowledge of these Universities
41,4 ,his duty to oppose the motion. He then al-
those cliff"oe superior qualifications of the professors in
that erent colleges, and expressed his astonishment
latirereY charge should be brought. either against those
eer`rgentlereen, or against himself.
the • tORTESCUE felt it to be his duty to support
fselr4tieu of the Hon. Member, although he did not
the ttitaself called upon to agree in all the opinions of
kites ?°. Member on the subject. The first changes
Itefo' 01 those institutions took place in the days of the
etilwise;atinn, and they had since undergone many
`,1,11d '-e"e Be admitted that since 1800 the Univerities
the :Le many advances in the direction of reform; but
Nil:at cursory glance showed that there were many
cola,' connected with them, and with the interests, as
terom‘e'l with them, of the students, which called for
Would' , Without the aid of public opinion, however, it
Net ue Useless to hope for any great change in those
Would in the way of general improvement. It
ee theill become him to say anything that could reflect
lose ea character of their Universities, and he should be
them ,t 0 any unfriendly course adopted in relation to
course The Hon. Member then took a review of the
ties,— of studies marked out for pursuit at our Universi-
teed 4.111,t1 Commented upon them in relation to their in-
opi4- purposes. With respect to Latin, it was the
tee to uhf Sydney Smith that there was a great deal
• kle -,eu study bestowed on it in the Universities.
‘thief'ourld not but regret the different changes
had been made in their Universities, di-
kle'eeT them from their original foundation.
Ittee,;•'"teed to see that there was, notwithstanding, a
isey"tiß spirit of reform in their Universities,, particu-
it4 velsile the University of Oxford; and if the State, in
C 5 tel e-r°,lci• would so direct its attention to the subject
'11(1 ari"4aTge the basis of education in their Universtiee,
llastioe'rcit the different classes of the community to a
Peleiell'ation in its benefits, it would be effecting a great
With,the
And this the State might do
Ivita,„-a aid of the immense funds of the Universities,
Peree--" diverting ono shilling of those funds from the
the t'e; for which they were originally intended. 0. f
tertnsee'esiastical Commission he could not but speak in
its ate;e4teenect and commendation, as having directed
the et--`tien in the fairest and most unbiassed manner to
they ate of their Universities, and the objects tor which
llttet:,'ere originally instituted. The Hon. Member.
Of the t,""0 Work of a German philosopher on the subject
,55 to teriglish Universities, and cited a passage from it
"Rae eft certainty of a reform taking place in them when
W 55 eeee?'site, may demand it, although he (the writer)
that a"eJUdiced against any interference with them in
thZterki_;:::::ing attached to th eir operation as he found
;_iat (!eaud concluded by repeating that he felt great sa-
giving his support to the motion of the Hon.
lour' FAGAN did not think it necessary to follow the
'Dace earecluet (Sir R. Inglis) in all the observations
Could -a uad made on this momentous subject; but he
)1 notarone Ut comment on the assertion of the Hon.
`, ithout,that Rumen Catholics ought not to be educated,
lie Without restraint, in the Universities of this country.
%lel/4'st tell the Hon. Baronet that the University in
were originally au Catholic founda,-
iit,,o of 'Lea by
Roman Catholics, and for the educe-
a Roman Catholics. Since 1793.4, Roman Catho-
tee e"e admitted into the Dublin University, and
I.herew;
.annually permitted.to. enter for education
Ited " subject to great restrictions. It was.c,lcu-,
eteefu hat more than 1-75th part of the " honours" and
all th meats of the University, to that of the whole, was
sent fell to their lot; and since 1794, up to the pre-
dent
.. 'wit!
rtheeeepserage number of Roman Catholic stu-
:Nset",' wed education in the University did not
',loam,
.more than 30 in each year. He could
.make
Prete ce, in the case of the fellowships, for a desire to
ter ty° an •
ieloe. exclusiveness in favour of a. particular
eluder. but why should Roman Catholics be pre;
te_ Irene the emoluments of the scholarshivipen
let th'ec, e University ? Scholarships were
44410114'0e neat of all the students, and they surelyg
d cicel ?Pen to all.—(llear, hear.) He knew
.that
"Ate' calvene
82 was kept up for the purpose of in-
etholies to conform to the Protestant religion.Duhl.
"Kt refer to the charter of the University of
wtheefflili,_.eanatdhtnielieersefervoatas nhoetihnging in that charter to prevent
has f's ututima admitted to the benefita of
io that But the system of which he complained
whiceWhichwas encouraged and acted on in a country
sari " there were or had been until the famine swept
Latheunmed th • lies their ranks, upwards of 7,000,000 of Roman
Betvatien; The Hon. Baronet, in the course of his ob-
re fr, Stated that a single college in Oxford was an
that enfgrtersity; but be (Mr. Fagan) knew, however
be, that the colleges of the Universities were
they or. Y Catholic foundations and he must say that
he now, as originally,. open for the public
e wet al'' hear) It was said that the Univer-
uesieed to intended for the education of young men who
Ate, let teeernter into holy orders; but to that he would
tart`ar e the ee
he other colleges instituted, and forming
ot eeteY.rversity, in which young men not intend-
seeer. r lute holy
th •P ler ee .
orders might receive the benefits
at in file uaion. He wished particularly to see
\v, Geld then f!atse of Trinity College, Dublin, and he
Tritely elLia,''e no objection to its retaining the name of
evaetabliiier"oe 40 was one of those who advocated the
L'eu the tit of the provincial colleges in Ireland,
?w, in h?' Were first introduced into Ireland, and he
t'a'l Pla.ce in Parliament, repeated that he was
'at eller, their introduction int that country, believing
' were greatly calculated to center benefit on

ad
all of e lona he hoped would eveii themselves of heir
vauteges. While there were provincial colleges in
Ulster, Munster, and Connaught why should Roman
Catholics be excluded from the colle -e in the province of
Leinster and the city of Dublin? He could only hope
that the House would carry out to its full extent the
reform of this great University, and that under the sanc-
tion of Victoria, the intention of Elizabeth, the founder,
would he adopted.
Mr. NAPIER characterised the statements which had
been made ran ecting Trinity College us totally on-
f tundet. In the fist place, the land revenues of Trinity
College were less than the sum annually voted by the
Rouse :or Ma) nooth College. He denied that Dissen-
ters and Catholics were excluded from the honours and
emoluments of Trinity College. They participated in
all except the fellowships and scholarships, which were
connected with the foundation of the University, and
in Erasmus Smith's professorship. The object in
founding Trinity College was for the purpose of main-
taining the Protestant religion. Up to 1793 Catholics
were excluded altogether, but in that year they were
admitted to take degrees, while they we:e carefully pre-
vented feom becoming lay members of the corporation.
Out of the land revenues of 30,0001. a year, nearly
4,000/. were open to Catholics. The scholarships to
which it was now sought to admit Catholics were not
founded by Elizabeth, but by Charles the Second. Mr.
O'Connell had given evidence before a Committne of the
House of Commons, that it would not be wise to admit
Catholics to scholarships, inasmuch as he considered
they were intended solely for the benefit of Protestants.
The proportion of Catholic to Protestant students was
about one-tenth, or the same proportion as the Catholic
wealth and influence of the country bore to the Protes-
tant. The organ of the Catholics in this country ad-
mitted that even if the scholarships were thrown open to
the Catholics it would not satisfy the Catholic popula-
tion. They should have Catholic service and Catholic
supervision, and a purely Catholic system of education.
The present system had worked well and harmonising,
and if it were disturbed by forcing Catholics in on
the foundation of the University, they would be
looked upon as an aggressive body, and for his part,
if this extreme step were persisted in, he, for one,
should much rather see them entirely excluded. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman then applied himself to
the portion of the motion which advocated an extension
of the interests of religious and useful learning, com-
mensurate with the great resources and high position of
the Universitea He contended that sufficient progress
had been made and that everything was done which the
requirements cf the age demanded. Every branch of
sound knowledge and useful science was carried out in
Trinity College, and the system of university education
there adopted was without a single blot. The salaries
of the senior fellows did not exceed 1,500/. per annum, and
those hard-worked and industriotis men, the junior fel-
lows, who directed their mental energies and physical la-
bours to the cause of education, did not realise more than
6001. or 7001. per annum. No commission was neces-
sary to enable the fellows to marry—for, by an old
statute of St. Patrick, it was provided that priests should
have wives.—(Hear, hear.) The consequence of the
system of tenure of the college lands led to the great
sub-letting and sub-division of land, which was
one of the great evils under which the country lay. The
very worst college lands were held upon a lease of lives
renewable for ever. He could not see, under these cir-
cumstances, of what use a Royal Commission could be
in altering this state of things. The proper question
was, whether the property held by the University of
Dublin had been properly applied to the objects of the
founder, and to a useful dissemination of knowledge
throughout Ireland. If it had, then he contended that
not a shadow of a case had been made out for interfer-
ing with this celebrated institution, and least of all by
means of a Roy al Commission.
Mr. SADLEIR said he thought the Learned Gentle-
mast who had just spoken had properly confined his ob-
servatious to the state of Trinity College, Dublin. He
confessed, however, that he was disappointed with the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech, for he had ex-
pected, from the declaration which he once male, that
Christianity was his creed, and his country his politics,
that he was about t i speak in a liberal strain of the ad-
vaittages which would be afforded by that institution, or
that he would have approved, in f .ct, of the proposition
once mace in the It ieh House of Commons, by the cele-
brated Claudius Beresford, the kinsman of the Honour-
able Member for Essex, that Trinity College should be
thrown open to the Roman Catholics of Ireland.
As to the relative number of Catholics and Pro-
testants that enter that college, it is right
that the House should remember that whilst there
wete only thirty-two Catholics that entered it there
were 350 Protestants. The Hon. and Learned Member
had repeated to the House that it was thrown open to all
claeses of society in Ireland without distinction of creed,
though it was establi.hed for the benefit of Protestants
only. View in the debate which occurred on this subject
in the session of 1845, when it was brought forward by
the Hon. and Gallant Member fhr Middlesex, it was
stated that according to the terms of the charter granted
to the college, after it had been endowed out of the con-
fiscated estate of the Earl of Desmond, the object of the
institution was to disseminate knowledge and civility'
throughout the Irish poor. In those words there was
not the slightest allusion to creed of any kind. lie (Mr.
Sedleir) was quite sure in this respect, and with refer-
ence to the principle and policy by which the University
managed its lands, there were strong and cogent reasons
for acceding to that portion of the motion of the
Honourable Member for North Lancashire which re-
lated to Trinity College, Dublin. The subject of the
cultivation of the vast territories owned and cold-
vated by Trinity College had been investigated in a
Committee of the House of Commons, and the evi-
dence there given was strongly condemnatory of the
system of cultivation pursued by the provost and
fellows. Under the present system, there was not
nearly the amount of produce derived from the land
which it was capable of yielding. At this day, when-
ever a piece of land belonging to the college became va-
cant, instead of listening to the proposal of an intelli-
gent or practically agricultural occupying tenant, the
college would bestow the land on any sir or squire who
was willing to put himself in the false position of being
a middleman, by which he transmitted to the college
about 75 per cent. of the rent only which he received
from his sub-tenants. All who were acquainted with
the relations between landlord and tenant in Ireland
knew that the middleman system was one of the greatest
Curses which the country laboured under, and yet here it
was practised by the very heads of the Metropolitan
University. The operation of this system, and the great
disadvantages which resulted from it, were put under a
strong point of view, by the report on the subject made
by the board of guardians of a union in the county of
Kerry, where the college had extensive possessions. He
hoped that that system would be put an end to, and that
some method would be ultimately adopted by which the
many evils he had adverted to might be obviated, and the
means of the college better enabled to effect the great
objects which it had in view.
Mr. HAMILTON said he was unwilling to render
this debate an exclusively Irish one, and he should,
therefore, content himself by expressing an earnest
wish that these serious evils might be considered and
remedied.
Colonel THOMPSON was bound to thank the Hon.
Member for the University of Oxford for bringing up
before his eyes those Dissenters of Yorkshire whose case
he had introduced into this debate, because it removed
some considerable difficulty which he should have other-
wise experienced in determining what vote to give on
this occasion. He should have felt a difficulty in sup-
porting, the motion if he thought he should have been
judged as giving a harsh decision against the University
with which it was his boast and his happiness to be con-
nected. and of which he could never speak without the
most friendly sentiments. But there were flaws even in
that University, and one was the exclusion of Dissenters
from all participation in the advantages it gave to the
public. He did believe that that was a point on which,
without the smallest unfriendliness, he was authorised to
say they mat in the end give way, simply because it
was not just, and not in accordance with the events that
were daily taking place in the world. To the Dissenters,
however, he would say, that if they were desirous of ob-
teining the advantages of a collegiate education, the most
likely way to advance their object would be to establish a
college of their own. Ho could not allow one dictum of
the lion. Member for the University of Oxford to pass
without, at all events, expressing his disagreement with it.
The lion. Gentleman had said that no right existed on
the part of that House of Parliament—meaning thereby
the whole Government of the country, of which that
House was a component part—to interfere with the de-
cisions or doctrines of the church named of England.
That dictum could not be passed over, because he (Col.
Thompson) knew that it was contrary to the opinion of
a large portion at least of the Members on his (the Minis-
terial) side of the House. There were many who be-
lieved that a compact existed between the Church of
England and the State. If the Wesleyans or the Society
of Friends chose to establish an exclusive system of
education, they were at perfect liberty to do so, because
they held no revenues from the State. But he and his
friends maintained that there was a compact with the
Church of England; and that it was not from any ab-
s=tract merit or desert that its revenues were given to it,
but because its doctrines coincided with the opinions of
the great mans of the inhabitants of this country; and if
ever, unhappily, it should come to pass that the doc-
trines of the Church of England should cease to coin-
cide with the opinions of the majority of the people,
then he and his friends maintained that there would
exist a right on the part of Parliament to enter into the
question as to the future application of its revenues.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that in addressing the House
on the important subjeet then under discussion, he felt
very sensibly the great disadvantage of having no per-
sonal experience in respect to those two great Universi-
ties which were mainly the subject of the present mo-
tion. It NW, however, a subject upon which he thought
it was necessary (brought before the House as it had
been), that some member of the Government should state
the views which the Government were disposed to take
of it. It was for that purpose that he had risen to ad-
dress the House. In the first place he would observe
that he did not think it would be possible for him to
agree to the motion as it was now placed before the
House, combining as it did a great number of questions,
and placing them in a form which had induced his Hon.
Friend the Member for the University of Oxford to say
that the motion constituted a bill of indictment against
the Universities. Now, in whatever way he might view
this subject, he must in the outset declare that he saw
no cause for adopting any plan cf proceeding to which
the term " indictment" could be applied; nor could
he see any cause for considering that thee Universi-
ties were objects of accusation by the majority of that
House. There was another part of the subject likewise
which, in his opinion, ought to bo kept totally apart
from the main object and purport of that motion. The
question of the admission of Dissenters to the Universi-
ties, important as it was, should not, in his judgatent,
be considered together with a question that related to
any improvements in the plan of education that might
be pursued in those Universities. Whether Dissenters
" ' -. .._ -6—a— :

-vit h CI

t':! r tle y shoal), ne admitted to the honours conferred
by the Universities—and how far these or any other
admissions should extend—these were questions of prin-
ciple which, as the Hon. Member had correctly said,
were debated several years ago ut great length in that
House, on the occasion when his Noble Friend (Lord
Stanley) made an able speech in favour of the admis-
sion of Dissenters t the Universities, supported by rea-
sons which, in his (Lord J. Russell's) opinion, bad never
been answered. It was quite unnecessary to ask gentle-
men to sit in commission on a question which was
really one to be settled by Parliament, and on which
the Irish Parliament did decide, when they allowed that
Roman Catholics should be admitted to degrees in the
University of Dublin. He did not think, therefore, they
should take into consideration the question of the admis-
sion of Dissenters. But when he proceeded to the other
and more important questions, with respect to the edu-
cation which was given in our English Universities—
approaching that subject with all that care and with all
that respect which he felt for those Universities, he
must in the first place say that he did not think there
could be any objection in principle—he did not conceive
that even his Hon. Friend the Member far the University
of Oxford could make any objection in principle—to the
appointment of a Commission to consider the state of
those Universitieswith regard to the nature of the educa-
tion they imparted. On the subject of precedents for
issuing such a Commission, allusion had already been
made to some that were most apposite. A Commission
of Inquiry into the state of the Church of England had,
with all due respect to the Church of England, been
made with the consent of the Archbishops of
that Church. A Commission of Inquiry into
the Scotch Universities had been issued, on
which Commission the principals of some of
the colleges of those Universities were placed.
So also a Commission of Inquiry, generally, into en-
do eed schools for the education of the poorer classes,
was issued under Lord Brougham's Act. All these
were precedents which showed that there was no objec-
tion in principle to the appointment of a Commission on
this subject. Nay, they showed still further that those
who were the leading persons in authority in these Uni-
versities ought not to consider that it was any disparage-
ment to them if a Commission were appointed upon a
subject so important to the people of Great Britain.—
(Hear, hear.) Having thus stated what he thought was
the material principle involved in this question, he
would proceed to consider whether there was any case
—whether there was any ground of reason or of expe-
diency why such a Commission should be appointed
now.—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp, which ex-
cited much laughter.) Its considering that question
they must bear in mind the changes which these Uni-
versities had of late years undergone. It was ge-
generally agreed, and it must be agreed by all who
approved of the changes which had taken place,
that .the education given in our Universities some 20
years, or even so lately as 10 years ago, was not adequate
to the knowledge and wants of the present day.—(Hear
hear.) It had been stated to him in a letter by a person
engaged in the task of education at Oxford, that some
ten years ago chymistry was entirely neglected, that al-
though honours were conferred in mathematics, mathe-
matics were little attended to, that modern history
scarcely received any attention, and that, even on the
subject of classical education, there existed a great de-
ficiency of attainment. The writer of the letter said :
—" I have stated that our studies were almost exclusively
dialectical. How limited the range of reading has been
of late is seeu when we reflect that mathematics, though
encouraged by the offer of high honours, are but little
cvltivated among us; that an acquaintance with the ele-
ments of natural sciences is rare ; that law, though we
give degrees in that faculty, has long been neglected;
that modern history has never formed part of our sys-
tem; that political economy is looked upon with
fear and aversion— nay, that the knowledge of
ancient history exhibited by the able it students
seldom goes beyond the contents of Herodotus and Thu-
cvdtdes, and the first decade of Livy, with the addition
of a small portion of Tucitus. It is confessed by all that
the art of writing Latin well is possessed by few, and
Greek was never well written here. But what will per-
haps surprise your Lordship, neither Homer, nor Cicero,
nor Demosthenes, nor Plautus, nor Quintilian, nor Te-
rence, nor the minor Greek orators, nor Lucretius are
read by any large portion of even the most diligent young
men; and that it is seldom, indeed, that they are pre-
sented at the public examinations." His correspondent
went on to state, that within the last few years this de-
fect had been corrected; that his University was no
longer open to that reproach, that these matters had
been made the subjects of attention and study, and that
examinations ;had been ordered with respect to them.
But, after allowing for all the claims that could be made
for the improvements introduced into those Universi-
ties, there evidently existed still a very great defect
in the system of education pursued in them, a defect
which must be admitted by all who candidly considered
the subject. It was true that, by the decisions that
had been lately made both at Cambridge and at Ox-
ford, the important subject of modern history
and the other subjects which he had mentioned, had
been admitted as questions for examination, and thence
had become subjects of study at the colleges ; but then
tee question arose how to combine that which had been
hitherto the distinctive character of our Universities—
namely, the study iu the colleges by tutorial instruction,
with the instruction by professors who were named and
appointed to teach those important subjects. On this
point those with whom he had spoken—who had been
educated at these Universities, and who had taken an
important part in education there—had stated that
there was a considerable defect still existing, and that
that defect consisted very much in the restrictions which
were placed by the will of the founders, and by the
deeds of endowment of the several colleges with regard
to the mode of electing to the fellowships of those col-
leges. Unless that detect were entirely removed the
great change introduced at Oxford and Cambridge could
never give the full proof which ought to be expected. It
ought to be expected, from the introduction of lectures
on modern history, chymistry, political economy, that
the young men would have in the colleges suf-
ficient instruction upon these subjects to enable them
to derive all the benefit of the lectures they should hear
from the professor. There were two reasons for a de-
ficiency ; one, that the professors could not obtain the
attendance of the young men sufficiently often and with
sufficient continuity of attention to enable them to de-
rive all the benefit they ought ; and, next, that the col-
leges, having been instituted with a view to a mode of
instruction more favourable to classical learning at Ox-
ford, and to mathematical at Cambridge, there were not
in those colleges fellows who were able or inclined, from
their studies, to carry the young men on in the know-
ledge of those parts of learning which the two Universi-
ties, of their own accord, had declared to be necessary
to a good education. The present Professor of Modern
History in the University of Cambridge, Sir James Ste-
phen, as that gentleman had informed him (Lord John
Russell), could give only one lecture per week, of one
hour, or an hour-and-a-half, or two hours duration.
Instruction of an hour or an hour-and-a-half, and that
during term time, was not sufficient on so important and
great a subject. It was therefore necessary to combine
that education which was to be given by professors,
according to the system adopted, with the ancient
collegiate manner of teaching which had prevailed in
the Universities, and which he (Lord John Russell),
for ono, would be very sorry to see destroyed, or even
diminished.—(Hear, hear.) But, not wishing to in-
troduce anything in the direction of instruction by
lectures beyond what the Universities themselves had
introduced by the steps they had taken from time to
time—the last, by the University of Oxford, only within
a few hours—he thought it desirable to combine that
mode of instruction with the collegiate, which was the
established mode of instruction in the Universities. The
obstacle was the manner in which, by various Acts, by
the wills of the founders in many instances, fellows must
be taken from a certain family or county ; and there
were other restrictions of. the same kind. It ought to
be the object totcombine these two educations in such a
way that, the fellows of colleges should be among the
men who were the best instructed, not only in classics
and Mathematics, but also in various branches of study
—(Hear, hear)—and that they should direct the atten-
tion of the young men, not solely or exclusively to those
branches of study which had hitherto been taught, but
be able to assist them in all the professorial instruction,
which, without the other, would be very much lost.—
(Hear, hear.) There did not appear to be any great
uillioulty in attaining that object, which at the same
time was ore which could not be attained by the
Universities themselves. It was only in some very
rare instances that they had been able with great pains
to discover that they had power to iteform their statutes.
Supposing it desirable to make these changes, was there
any conclusive reason why they should not be attempted?
There did not appear to be any.—(Hear, hear.) The
only reason which could be alleged was, that such re-
spect ought to be paid to the will of the founders that it
ought not to be interfered with even for a great and im-
portant good. That principle could hardly be contended
for by his Hon. Friend the Member for the University
of Oxford, who must allow that the change, on the de-
sirableness of which he (Lord J. Russell) agreed, that
took place at the Reformation, was a change setting en-
tirely aside the will and intentions of the founders—
(Hear, hear)—and applying institutions for purposes
akin to the purposes for which they were founded;
though there was an entire diversity in the application
of the funds from that intended by the founders, who, in
many instances, had left those funds for Roman Catholic
purposes. When the Hon. Gentleman very placidly ob-
served that the Church of England reformed itself, it was
to be remarked that there was a great deal to be said as
to the reformation of the Church and also of the Uni-
versities; because, if one looked to the heads of col-
leges, he would find that a certain master was appointed
by Edward VI.; that iu the time of Mary another mas-
ter was put in; and, again, in the time of Elizabeth
that master was forcibly ejected, and a new master and a
new head put in his place. His lion. Friend might call
that the Church of England reforming itself, but, in fact,
it was a very strong interference of the State—(Hear)—
and carried out with all the will and determination which
characterised the two sisters, Mary and Elie. sbeth.—
(Eleer, hear.) What was there, if a great object were
in view, to prevent interference so far with the wills of
these founders as to enable the colleges to place in the
situation of fellows, zed thereby assist in the education
of the youth of these two Universities, the most capable
men whom they could find in each University or else-
v. here ?—(liear, hear.) In the report of the Scotch
University Commission it was said, with reference to the
University of Aberdeen :
" One objection, which was very strongly urged, was,
that the union of the two independent Universities ne-
cessarily involved a violation of foundation charters and
deeds of endowment, as well as an infringement on
the vested rights of individuals. Considering that
the foundation charters of both Universities
proceed on the narrative of its having been the
ebject of their founders to promote religion and sound
[ranting in the north of Scotland, we were not disposed
to attach muce importance to this objection as directed
g oust a plan which was clearly calculated to further
tnnaci ends_ WGI were. moreover. disposed to think that