The Sun.
London, England, 1844-08-13 00:00:00

LAW INTELLIGENCE

COURT OF BANKRUPTCY, Aug. 12.
(Before Mr. Commissioner GOULBURN.)
IN THE MATTER OF JOHNSON, JOHNSON AND MANN, OF
THE ROMFORD BANK.
This being the day appointed by the Learned Cc m-
missioner for the further examination of the bankrupts,
and for the proving of debts against the estate, the Court
was from an early hour crowded by parties interested, a
great majority of whom seemed country persons, small.
farmers, and agricultural labourers.
At one o'clock the case was called, and the bankrupts
were placed in the box to be examined.
The Learned COMMISSIONER thought that as the ac-
commodation of the Court was so limited, that those
who wished to prove debts had better do so before the
Registrar in another room. That done, if any individual
wished to hear the examination, they might return to
the Court again. This mode would enable those who
had come from a distance to return as early as possible.
The Learned Counsel concurred in the propriety of
such a course, and the official assignees and the Regis-
trar baying retired to: Mr. Commissioner Evans's room,
the great body of the creditors followed.
Mr. Commissioner GOULBURN—Now, Mr. Chambers,
for whom do you appear ?
Mr. CHAMBERS—I appear for the bankrupts, Mr.
Johnson, sen., and his son.
Mr. EDWIN JAMES said that he represented the as-
signees.
Mr. Johnson, sen., was then examined.
Mr. JAMES—Now, Mr. Johnson, I believe you were
examined before his Honour on the Ist of July last ?
I expect I was.
Mr. JAMES—Since that time have no papers been
found, and sent to Mr. Hill, of Crutched-friars P—No.
Mr. JAMES—I ask you, did you not send several
boxes of papers to Mr. Hill P—l sent some boxes of
papers, but they have no connexion with the bank-
ruptcy.
Mr. JAMES—When did you send these boxes to Mr.
Hill ?—Subsequent to the stoppage of the bank, cer-
tainly.
Mr. JAMES—Did you examine those papers before you
sent them ; were there not many relative to the bank
sent P-1 was not aware of it at the time. I thought I
had sent all the papers so connected to Mr. Follett, the
official assignee.
Mr. JAMES—Were they sent without examination ?
Without examination.
Mr. JAMES—Did you not suggest that they should be
sent to Mr. Hill ?—No doubt of it, and for this reason.
When Mr. Follett was in my office, I showed him the
boxes, and said that I should like to keep them. He
said, " Oh, send the papers ; put them in smaller boxes."
I did put all the papers that were connected with the
bank in other boxes, and sent them to Mr. Follett ; and
I was not conscious that I sent papers of a similar kind
to Mr. Hill.
Mr. JAMES—Mr. Follett's expression referred to the
boxes, and not to the papers, was it not so ?—No, no.
Mr. JAMES—I presume you have been looking into
your affairs since the bankruptcy ?—I have.
Mr. JAMES—When did you know that you were in-
solvent—before the bank stopped?—rdid not consider at
any time that the effects I possessed in the City of
London were insufficient to meet all engagements.
Mr. JAMES—Did you not know, or hear, before the
bank stopped, that there was a great deficiency as re-
garded it?—There was an apparent deficiency in the
balance-sheet taken at Christmas last.
Mr. JAMES--Of how much ?-19,0001.
Mr. JAMES—Were you not told in May—l'll show
you the letter immediately—that there was a deficiency
to the amount of 31,000/.?—l told you Christmas. Your
May is subsequent to that.
Mr. JAMES—Do you know Mr. Burness?—Yes.
Mr. JAMES—Were you negotiating as to the pro-
priety of taking him into partnership?—l declined for
two years to accept Mr. Burness as a partner.
Mr. JAMES—For two years you say?—Yes; I had
letters from Mr. Burness. I myself never attempted to
negotiate.
Mr. JAMES—You know Mr. Burness's handwriting?
—I had more letters from him than I ever read.
Mr. JAMES—I want a straightforward answer. Whose
handwriting is that letter?—l think it is like his. I
do not know that I should authenticate his letters.
Mr. JAMES—Read that letter, Sir, and tell me whether
you did not receive it?—l do not see wh) lam to read
other person's statements.
Mr. JAMES—But it is a letter with a statement directed
to you, and it says that the bank is deficient 31,0001.,
and the writer declines to be a partner on that account.
I should think that, to tell a banker that such a de-
ficiency existed, was rather a material communication, eh?
—I disagreed with his statement then, and do so still.
Mr. Commissioner GOULBURN—Had you not better
put that letter into Court, Mr. James. Pray who is
Mr. Burness?
Mr. JAMES—He was cashier at the Romford Bank,
toe, with 300/. per annum. I will read the letter, Sir.
It is dated the 29th of May, 1844. (The Learned
Counsel then read the letter, which was in substance
as already stated.)
The bankrupt's examination continued—Now, when
that balance sheet was made out in May, did you not
see it ?—I rather think I did.
Mr. JAMES—And it showed a deficiency of 31,6171.
12s. 10d. P—l say I never agreed in that, nor at this
time agree in any such deficiency.
Mr. JAMES—Then did you ever by any process of
figures attempt to show that Mr. Burness's statement was
incorrect ?—No.
Mr. JAMES—Did you never, on seeing this alarming
deficiency, try to ascertain whether it was correct or
not ?—I did a few days after, I think, direct an account
to be made out by a clerk of the bank, which I brought
up to London, and the balance then appeared 19,0001.
Mr. JAMES—Were your books correctly kept ?—I
expect they were. I depended on their being so kept.
Mr. JAMES—Then had. Mr. Burness any other means
of making his statement, except from the books of the
bank ?—I think not.
Mr. JAMES—Had you a private account with the
Romford Bank ?—I had.
Mr. JAMES—How much is it overdrawn ?—I will ad-
mit myself a debtor from 12,0001. to 15,0001. Will this
satisfy you ? But I don't call it overdrawn.
Mr. JAMES—Oh, it will satisfy me. Will it satisfy
anybody else ? I suppose, in fact, you have had your
customer's money out of the bank, and paid your old
debts with it. That is the plain English of it. Pray
what did you do with this large sum of 12,000/. or
15,009/. ?—I paid off a bond which was given thirty
years before with 15,000/. It had been always delayed
till I could pay it.
Mr. JAMES—Then this specific money went to pay the
bond 7—Yes, in instalments.
Mr. JAMES—What, at the time you drew it out ?
Oh, no ; I wish for an adjournment in order to give a
better answer than now. I did not expect to be ex-
amined to-day.
Mr. JAMES—Were you not in the habit of paying in
bills and cheques drawn and accepted by yourself to your
own private credit ?—I do not say a habit, but I have
done so.
Mr. JAMES—Have you never paid in cheques which
never went through your bankers ?—lf they had been
presented they would have been paid. When not pre-
sented they were used as vouchers against me.
Mr. JAMES—Were you not in the habit of giving such
them in the hands of the clerk in the
,and telling him to credit you with such
cheques,Rom
Romford
placingßaoc
cheques, and thus falsely receiving credit to a large
amount ?—The bankrupt returned no answer.
Mr. JAMES—I will refresh your memory. Look at
that cheque for 1,000/. Did you not direct it to be car-
ried to the credit of your private account ?—I do not
dispute it.
Mr. JAMES—Did you not, after having received such
credit, prevent that cheque being paid to your bankers ?
—I do not think I did so. I never saw them from the
time I paid them.
Mr. JAMES—Did you not give the clerk directions not
to present this cheque ?—lt is a possible case that such
an order might have been given in a single instance. It
is possible it might have been ordered to stand over for a
month or two. There is a memorandum upon it to that
effect. The cheques were placed at the end of the book
to my debit.
Mr. JAMES—Did you not, Sir, give a distinct order
that they should not be presented, and do not you know
that they were not ?—I certainly do, for they were placed
at the end of the book.
Mr. JAMES—Was this an universal occurrence P—l
held myself bound to make up the amounts when our
books were made up.
Mr. JAMES—They are drawn in the names of Johnson,
Mann, and Co. Pray, did your partner know anything
at all of them ?—I did not ask his sanction. I was made
cash-keeper with his assent.
Mr. Commissioner GOULBURN—Wha,t are the dates
of those transactions, Mr. James ?
eMr. bJeAr3,llEBs4.
—oJanuary and March, 1839, drawn to
Sptem
The bankrupt—They stand to my debit now.
Mr. JAMES—Did you not draw your customers' money
from the Romford Bank, and take credit for cheques
which never were, and never were intended, to be paid ?
—They would have been paid if presented. lam sure
if, at that time, they had gone in singly, they would have
been met.
Mr. JABIES—When you wanted money for the bank,
did it never occur to you to take them out of the strong
box and get cash for them?—l had intended to take as-
sistance for their full amount.
Mr. JAMES—Oh, you meant to redeem them from the
bank by borrowing the money P—Yes.
Mr. JAMES—Did you have recourse to the same sys-
tem with bills of exchange?—We
Mr. JAMES—Don't say we. Have you never accepted
bills and deposited them with the Romford Bank to in-
c r eAaisre.
JAMES—Werey our ownprivate credit?—Not
they
e di
nott? my private credit.
deposited in the bank of Romford
by you, and by you
My
to increase your private account ?-1 acknowledgeit.
partner had concurred in it. —drNaw°tn by you, accepted
Mr. JAMES—What, do you say that your artner in
London knew of it? —I do not suppose he knew of
every transaction, but I am sure that he was aware that
one house was made useful to the other.
Mr. JAMES—Did your partner know, in 1840, that
you were in the habit of drawing bills in your joint
not account to my partner for every transaction, and
names, and taking credit in Romford for them?—l did
therefore cannot speak positively of those bills.
Mr. JAMES—By this mode did you manage to get
credit for an amount of 10,355/. ?—I did not call it
credit, for at the time the balance-sheet was made out it
Was placed to my debit.
Mr. JAMES—Have you not drawn your customers'
money out?—The 10,0001. drawn went to the interest of
the bank.
Mr. JAMES—You do not answer my question. Did
you not draw out your customers' cash for your own
purposes ?—I did not use it for my private purposes.
Mr. JAMES—The bond was connected with the oil
concern in London, and had nothing to do with the
Romford Bank?—Yes, it had.