The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-02 00:00:00

numher,of voters in Ire.and- without.- an . occupation
franChise. But i ftheY made an oc,ciipation franchise,
he agreed with his' Noble Friend that the amount
should be fixed so low as to enable the voters to pro-
tect each other. He thought 30/. was too high an
amount. He entirely agreed with the Noble Lord in
thinking that if they were to create a vote arising
from property in fee, there was no reason why the
'amount required should be higher in Ireland than in
.nearld•—(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, Ireland
being a poorer country, a 40s. fee there was
,a larger amount than the same fee in England,
'The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite
had truly stated that if there was one thing which it
was more desirable to do than another it was to en-
cosirage 'persons in Ireland to acquire a small pro-
f erty in land: - He thought that a Board of Franchise
would -be most valuable in Ireland, testing it by the
poor-law
. valuation. He was very glad to hear that
her Majesty's Government were in favour of encou-
raging the acquisition of the right of voting-by small'
fee dimples.. He hoped - her Majesty's- Government
would adopt some means to render more easy, cheap,
and simple, the conveyance. of land...--(Hear, hear.)
Nothingeso nnich tended to interfere with this' salu-
tary process as the difficulty and expense attending
small conveyances of land. He trusted that' the
question of stamps would not be excluded frOm. con-
sideration whenever that was discussed. He could
not but -express, his satisfaction at finding that they
'were now entering upon the • discussion Of this
question• in a manner which was likely to lead to a
satisfactory -settlement of the franchise .—(ffear.)
Sir R. lIEEIs expressed a hope that Hon. Gentle-
men would not prejudge this question, and deprive
• Inthee
•"ud e tsafterof • the opportunity of giving a deliberate
grn n examining the details of the Bill, and
.having access to the information which ight be' sup-
•phed with respect to the effect of anylc particularm pros
• position.—(l-lear, hear.) The course which the Go-
vernment_ proposed to take with respect to the muni-
.cipal and county franchise in Ireland was this. They
hed found some disqualifications existing in Ireland,
.w Inch they proposed to remove. In Great Britain
occupation. was, not required as a necessary condition
..ef voting as the case in freehold- franchise. In -Ire-
land it was required. They- proposed to remove the
;restriction in.lreland, and to place the 10/. freehold
franchise as to occupation on the same footing as in
Great Britain. In Ireland they did not permit joint
t enatits to exercise the right of voting ; they did per-
Tit .thein -to .do so in England. Again the
Government proposed to remove that disparity.
Government : did not . propose to take away any
existing right,
but to continue for the period of
eight . years
, every such -right, without any other
question than the continuance of the same qualifica-
tion, ,But they proposed to make concurrently. with
-theseichanges a very-great increase of the franchise;
and he cited these two concurrent enactments, 'viz.,
the
.protection or every existing right,- and the con-
ferring Of a suspended right, as a proof that the mea-
sure was conceived in the.spirit of fairness. It had
heel, constantly alleged that there was a great dis-
parity between the municipal franchise in England
and in Ireland. They had availed themselves of the
first opportunity of placing the municipal franchise
in Ireland on the same footing on which it existed in
• England, , They gave An alternatiie franchise in Ire-
land, either occupation amounting to 10/., or -the
holding 'of a tenement subject to the -payment of the
rates. •- So :far 'as the municipal franchise was
concerned it would stand upon the same footing, as it
• did in England.—(Hear.) Great complaints had
been made. as. to the .restrictions upon the right of
voting. They proposed in future to prevent the voter
being dispialified,. on account of . the difficulty
under which, he now lay of proving the payment of
every. rate. That was the- general effect of the mea-
sure which the Government proposed- • They were
quite•aware that there was a tendency in Ireland to
restrict the franchise; on account a the operation of
naturareauSes, and that legislative enactments would
probably have the same effect. - They provided, how-
:ever, a substitute which would make ample compen-
sation for the operation of both these causes, and
-which Would fulfil the expectations •which- the people
of Irelandhad a right to form on-this subject. As the
Noble Lord had justly said, the subject was one of ex-
treme a:
,-ufficulty, With respect to leases, he thought that
if they made the franchise dependent on the holders
°f a lease, the power of, the landlord to restrict its
exercise would be - almost indefinitely extended ; he
ventured to' say, that in a short time, the franchise
would he reduced. to a degree which no one could
desire to see. They proposed, that the man who was
rated-
le, -. a given amount should -have the right of
voting;..
They now fropOsed, for the first time, a 51.
franchisolir fee. On this subject, he must observe,
that some of the worst description: of voters had been
those who voted under a 40s. franchise in fee; and
. the-
J had selected a 51 franchise as -insuring a more
independent class than it was possible to
get with.
the smaller amounts.--(Hear.) He would not enter
into the details of this measure, which was brought
forward to fulfil the declaratithis made on the part of
. her Majesty's Government. —(Hear, hear.) He re-
peated that he hoped , Hon. Gentlemen would take
time to consider •this 'question, and weigh theinfor-
mation to which they had access, instead•-of expres-
sing- a precipitate opinion as
to the. effect Of-th
measure.
Mr. FRENCH would follow the advice which had
Barone.t, He did '
just been given by the Right lion. not anticipate that the Bill would beHreceived in Ire-
land
as a very great co
nceision- elf' the 'benefits
:.given by the Reform Bill
edwere to be taken away.
Noble Lord were
The
?lectors would bed confessed
of
the
two-thirds of the
'it must be 'remembered, franchise, and these,
were. the most popular class
savotess ; and for this franchise he proposed to sub-
. esltaitute.7Hhat.. he could not but designate as a Chandos
0 thought some of the alterations proposed
. by. the 11•0'ble Lord would have the effect of producing
greater- purity in the exercise of the franchise in
. Ireland; - s •
Mr• ItyseE
'.l was glad the present Bill had been
introduced; because glad
determination had been broken
through which, for a time, seemed to prevail on both
The-aid ea ef the llouSe, that the Reform Bill must be final.
question was would this. measure satisfy the
People of Ireland—
• desire' for separation- from this
Would it remove that unfortunate,
country so universally
thought there ? He f
thought it— -
• there were eared not ; and more, he
• rsally
!aught not to satisfy them. At present.
anly '6O 000 voters for 8,000,000 people.;
The Noble Ford '
proposed to add • 30,000-to them,
raiklng• a tOtatof9o,ooo—not more voters than one
tnglish
• Retse, -cf9ll°V contained—not more than the West
' Irish °- Y-tikihirer 'contained.' With respect to the
.of 3/ boronB'hs, they had at present but a constituency
MO, and the Noble Lord did not propose to
,asidd to that number. lie admitted that the principle of
isrlifirkes the lectoral franchise contained in the
ell e "1-4°r4's. Bill was an • improvement. The fran-
ass ° niu,,,t.e -greatly extended in-Ireland in order to
individual who
to the people of that country. Every
have
at all-fte"te at elections, - The Irish franchise'ought
as Pessiblet
possible assimilated assimilated to the Englishai much
the Imp -
• ment-toserhove
in-order to give the people a confidence in
erial Parliament,' and to enable the Govern-
.t_y.
risoned the count
sent na• ' sane of those troops which .now gar-
lie had no doubt that the pre •
sas
a.f. .
insult m would be held forth 'to the Irish people
fresh (C •
•R. Peels) .He '7Ol ries of " Hear, hear," from Sir
and gel) leavelitoe-erstod the Right Hon. Baronet,
opinion, it vvas
a fresh in 1
racterised su t, and deserved to be cha-
,h• • as such •• and .
• smself were an hi II if the Right Hon .Baronet
no
.other light. There he Would look upon it in
seislionsin the proposed dill ht be some salutary, pro-
.t nething in the way of cony t might be considered as
i was rather calculated. tossion ; but, on•the whole,
satisfied.— make the Irish people dis-
(Rear. hear, ) 34r. Al. GOR, thou h
not refrain from expres an English Member, could
the preee:ip4,s
embedi expressing his entire concurrence in
•Lordcatid felt confide et
in, the Bill of ' the Noble
greatest F 4.tisfaction ton the measure must give the
Mr: M.
T.
o,oo_ &Irish people.
justice to his ' NNELL said he should not- do
Protest a' ". c!" feelings if he did-not 'enter his
gainst the till of the N-
P°rti°4 of the jest- e oble'Lord: Itextendeda
whiebithouoile se.rm• Bill—the Chandos clause-
-never heard anvhadiit:en nine years its -that House, he
He objected the • . Member say a good word of.
on the 1 increased power the Lill Conferred
andlords,
The increase of' .
lsovoio already possessed a great deal.
,not Mach more All' 00 in the county voters would
which wbuld takean counterbalance the diminution
- - ~fiery
day= at place from causes which . were
work--suc
cores and e e h as the reduced prices of
Ih ' ' In high rents of land taken
. n at a period' when
. eir
.produce 'was of present state-of ar" i mach greater vallie. In the
-of ihe toitii.f v lg leis ture the stringent enfoeuement
on
the
.f.,_,
nc..
ia ue would have injurious effect
ra 11 se.—(l-lear hear ) Ile thought the
fears-of ~the II 111 b ' *
, on. ein es .for Aiontr
svesstd net bo.
well
received . ose that the Bill
grounded. ' Irelandl were well
It was acknowledged le v ( ged to be 4
great ' desideratum to remove. the present state
of .-%uncertiint -
land/. ' Y that revelled between the
ord and tenant h tP
the present Bill. was
every Way -calculated' t •11
There ~,,,a 6, • . . . 0 proynote that uncertainty.
land-
lords ' positive inducement in the Bill' to land-
, preserve a stateofuncertainty, and h feared
that tI I'll ..
'
le -a would harp the
effect of perpetuating
'arid enshitterin those landlord and tenantgnitnfoirtitrate differences between
:much crime and diseoutelent.. alibei en thi7ource of
dso.
Ing Qlling in Comities much needed"ereealteration.ensregarln
,n Iseglish polling-booth 100 b
polled
in an how; b ,_ . . votes would e
se/I*ns_, .Y:a !Ingle Clerk, whereas in Ireland the
-sse-..„:-- 1-rre-1' la a day was considered a great deal.
he caul not'oispose the introduction of the Bill, but
ain tould not for !a moment think that any registration
atsa,rT-'esithlibessatisfactor which • d a -higher
'e
_ -,, .s. . y impose.
a nfic - •
Deo p q, ~ . . a ta, eri en the .poorer than on the richer
. 1 •Pke,-----'thlear; ear.)b • '
Mr, i.j7 ss s , ' - -
a- Slis hpleased with the _manner in
Which the Noble
•
Lord-iiktiiodtiesedchi,zßilli:iiridivottld