The Sun.
London, England, 1850-07-03 00:00:00

THE SUN,

limit it to one or two leading points. He hoped the
Noble Marquis would see the necessity of inquiry, with
the view of ascertaining what amendments could be
made in the present system. The Noble Earl, who was
almost wholly inaudible throughout his remarks, con-
cluded by prop ising the resolution.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE admitted that the
Noble Earl had brought the subject before their Lord-
ships in a tone which was wholly unobjectionable. It
was hardly possible fur any one who had not occupied
the official situation which he himself held to form a cor-
rect idea of the difficulties attending the question. He
had certainly no wish to be an autocrat on this subject;
bat as regarded a number of schools, spread over the
country, if there was not a person to exercise something
like authority and control, from week to week, and from
day to day, the whole machinery of the system of inspec-
tion, the importance of which could not be too highly rated,
would at once be stopped. If that inspection had been ex-
tended, it had only been in consequence of the utility
which bad resulted from it. It was highly honourable
to the inspectors that, up to that moment, hardly any-
thing like a complaint bad been made against them.
His attention had been again and again directed to a dis-
position on the part of the inspectors to make a higher
examination than the nature of the education admitted
of. If persons of great educational acquiremeets were
selected for inspectors, it was natural to suppose that
they would be inclined to raise the standard of examina-
tion. On making inquiries in some cases he had received
explanations to the effect, that although the inspectors
felt it to be their duty to take the books they found in
use in the schools, and to ask the scholars questions out
of these books, as an intellectual exercise, yet it did not
follow that theirreports were founded upon the answers
made to their questions. No matter what amount of
intellectual qualification the inspectors might have dis-
covered in the children, it was not by this intellectual
qualification, taken alone, that they established their
standard (.f merit. They had been again and again requested
to make the general good conduct of the scholars, and
their moral and religious knowledge—as ascertained by
the masters, and more particularly by the clergymen—
a chief element in their reports. With respect to
school-mistresses and female schools, his endeavour
had been to form such a system of examination
as should not be liable to exception, and one which would
include an inquiry into their household qualifications.
The individual selected for that purpose was Mr. Cook,
than whom no person was better qualified to carry out
the intentions of the Committee of Privy Council, and
he hoped that his exertions would be attended with suc-
cess. Now, with regard to the jealousies which existed
in the minds of a great number of persons on the subject
of this system of education, he had received the most
concurrent testimony from all quarters of the benefit
which the clergy had derived from the assistance
afforded them; and, since the moment when the harmony
which existed between the Privy Council and the Na-
tional Society was interrupted, not less than 100 appli-
cations had been made by clergymen for assistance.--
(Hear, hear.) Then, with respect to the management
clauses, the points of difference had been narrowed iu a
very considerable degree. These clauses had their
origin in the management of the National Society, and
the inspection was first sought for by that society. The
clauses were at that time drawn up nearly in their pre-
sent shape. In fact they had only been altered so as to
meet one solitary exception. The management clause
vested the management of schools in local committees;
but there was one clause which was meant to apply
to is particular case, and in that case the clergyman was
left the sole judge, not only with regard to spiritual
but to temporal matters; but it was required that
a sufficient case should be made out to justify that devia-
tion from the general system. He apprehended that it
was not the intention of Parliament in making this grant
to vest the entire control in all matters, temporal as well
as spiritual, in the hands of the clergymen, as opposed
to tfie lay members of the Church.—(Hear, hear.) That
was a pretension which he did not consider within the
scope and intention of the grant, which was made for
the promotion of education generally; and if any special
authority was given to the clergymen of the Church of
England in temporal as contra-distinguished from
spiritual matters, equal authority must be given to the
Catholic priest, to the Dissenters, and to the Presby-
terians. Now the intention of the Legislature was not
to place this grant in the hands of the ministers of reli-
gion. It was, undoubtedly, intended to secure their co-
operation on spiritual concerns. and that co-operation had
been provided for and obtained.—(Hear, hear.) He was
glad that the Noble Earl, in alluding to the jealousies
which existed, had alluded to the cause of the Wesleyane.
Now what had happened with respect to that body? He
believed no one denied them the merit of great zeal
and attachment to their religious opinions. In the
first instance, they exhibited a great deal of jealousy
on the subject of these clauses ; but the result of the
comitaunications which had taken place was that they
were now perfectly contented, and were receiving
assistance from the Privy Council.—(Hear, hear.)
It had been stated elsewhere that the Church of England
was placed under some disadvantage as compared with
other religious sects. Now, as far as it was possible to
introduce the same words into the regulations, it had
been done. Of courseewhere a sect did not acknowledge
a bishop the word " bishop" could not be introduced—
where no elders existed the word " elder" could not be
inserted—where there was no priest the word " priest"
could not be given. But where there was any recognised
authority oil parties were treated precisely in the same
manner. He believed the principle adopted by the
Privy Council had been singularly favourable to the
Church of England. Between Jan. 1, 1848, and June
30, 1850, the number of schools assisted was 689, of
which number no less than 533 were Church schools—
(Hear, hear)—and of the number of schools now exist-
ing which had received grants 80 per cent. consisted of
Church schools.—(Hear, hear.) Ho could lay before
their _Lordships a great number of strong testimonies
from most eminent and distinguished clergymen, who
had thought it an act of duty and gratitude CO acknow•
ledge the benefits which they had derived from the
assistance afforded by the Privy Council; but he would
content himself with mentioning one or two instances.
The clergy of Preston, who were convened to petition
against the system adopted by the Privy Council, after
hearing it fully explained, subscribed a declaration as
to its utility, and that declaration was signed by seven-
teen out of nineteen.—(Hear, hear.) He also had
before him the opinion of Archdeacon Hare, who, in his
charge to the clergy, said that in the correspondence
between the National Society and the Privy Council, the
latter shows so conciliatory a spirit and such retie-Rims
in altering and modifying whatever was objected te, as
to afford a ground for hoping that all real difficulties
would soon be removed; and he felt convinced that they
would soon have been removed but for the agitation
which had been so pertinaciously maintained. After
describing the infinitesimal points on which the differ-
ences turned, the Archdeacon went on to say that it
might be urged that the fault lay with the Privy
Council, who ought to have considered these points, but
it was not usual for a body to alter its laws and rules
except when some ground existed for their doing so, nor
ought the Church to require them to take such a step
unless there was such ground. Now, the Committee of
Privy Council had provided from the first for all cases
in which the religious principles of any party could be
involved, by laying down that appeals on all religious
questions should be to the bishop exclusively; and it
would not be becoming to alter its well-considered rules
for the sake of an unreasonable prejudice. Besides it
was asserting the important principle that laymen ought
to exercise jurisdiction on Church matters without
being placed under the tutelage of ecclesiastical authority.
He (the Marquis of Lansdowne) held it to be of great
importance to invite and to secure the co-operation of
laymen as far as it could be obtained in all works of this
description,—(Hear, hear.) That was all that was
sought for by the management clanses which hal at-
tracted so much attention—an invitation to the lay
body as well as the clergy to take part in the govern-
ment of schools, while the religious interference was
carefully secured to the clergyman. He could see
nothing objectionable in such a system—nothing that
required further adjustment upon this one point, when
everything had been conceded to the various bodies of
th© clergy on this subject. He believed that from day
to day clergymen were becoming more sensible of the
value of the system of inspection which had been 'es-
tablished. The inspectors had been invited again and
again to take a more active part in giving advice and
assistance in the administration of schools. They had
been instructed never to take such a part unless in-
vited to do so by the committees and the clergymen
themselves, and they had been continually invited.—
(Hear.) With respect to the assertion that the system
of examination was carried too far, and the allusions
which had been made to the questions put for the
purpose of eliciting all the details connected with the
battle of Hastings, he would merely say that the system
ought not to be judged of from one or two cases in which
particular questions had been put. Education did not
stand very high some twenty or thirty years ago. On
one occasion, when be was benighted on Salisbury Plain
he
sought shelter for the night in a place where there
book, he was told there was
was some ten or a dozen houses. inquiring for a
self during the night. The titnl
school, and with that book he:nd-
ly'oneOnbeloging to
.the
endeavoured to amuse him-
Account of all the Events that eh:
specifying
otrurred since the
the book was. " An
ygorHaletnywinas which each
Creation of the World,
as desirous
yames. of the
recol-
lected Mayors of Salisbury and the Ma
Event occurred."—(Loud laughter.)
as the Noble Earl that a full and searching
should be instituted into the system, but whenh
lected that this was the 2d of July, and that any
now made must necessarily be a partial one, and tralt7
could not be attended with any practical results; he
felt a strong objection to the appointment of a Commit-
tee at the present moment. He trusted the Noble Earl
would defer the inquiry until the season when full jus-
tice could be done to the subject, and when it could be
instituted and carried on in both Houses at the same
time. He entreated their Lordships not to accede to the
appointment of the Committee at the present time. As
the Most Reverend Prelate at the head of the Church
was not present he presumed he could not be convinced
of the necessity of the Noble Earl's motion.—(Hear, and
a laugh,) He (the Marquis of Lansdowne) was pre-
pared to lay every document connected with the subject
before the House, and hereafter *ma voce evidence might
be taken for its more complete elucidation. With re-
spect to the schoolmasters for workhouses, it was
thought they could be more effectually supplied by
the establishment of a system of teaching under
clergymen of the Church of England, and in that re-
spect it differed from the proposition which was many
years ago under the conideration of Parliament, and
which admitted perfect equality between persons of dif-
ferent religious persuasions. There was not one boy at
Kneller Hall at present who did not attend the service
of the Church. But it was thought that in an estab-
lishment where school-masters were to be provided for
workhouses, and for the support of which money was
voted by a body representing all persuasions, it would
not be right to exclude those dissenters who might be
willing to attend a school so conducted, and where the
education given was of a superior character.—(Hear.)
Lard LYTTELTON regretted the opposition given