The Sun.
London, England, 1868-06-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS —LAST EVENING.
The LORD CIIANCELLOR toJk his seat on tile woolsack
et five o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Dundee Gas Bill was read a third time and passed,
COMPULSORY CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL,
This bill was committed and passed.
THAMES EMBANKMENT AND THAMES IM-
PROVEMENT BILL.
This bill was committed and passed.
THE CHURCH IN IRELAND BILL.

The Earl of CARNARVON resumed the debate on the
amendment as to the second reading of this bill. Ho said
that ho must express his regret that this bill should come
before the house at all. He did not intend to enter into
any recrimination like that which occupied the greater
portion of last night. But he must protest against any-
thing like party feeling in the matter, and regretted that
benefits with regard to Ireland should be mixed up with
party questions. He thought the position this bill would
occupy must cripple the organisation of the Irish Church.
He contended that the bill intended the disestablishment
of the Irish Church, and it was on that ground that he op-
posed the bill. It could not but be admitted that Ireland
was in a disaffected state, and it was urged that this
bill was to be the great panacea for all evils.
Ireland, although there had been seventy years
of parliamentary government was still in any great dis-
turbance likely to be d:saffeetel iu this country. Ou
various occasions it was Loped that Ireland would bo re-
conciled ti this country—at the accession of the Sovorei,egn,
and on many occasions when English justice and
munificence were exercised, but it was not so
He had listened attentively to all the objections that Lad
been used. To some he objected, of others he approved ;
but he must say that parliamentary securities are of little
value when once the power of practical government is
reversed. When once the Church of Ireland
was disestablished it would cause great hardship
amongst the greater portion of the population
of Ireland, and thus alienate that portion of the population
who had been so generously loyal to this country. He
heard, too, that the ultramontane feeling was more preva-
lent than ever in this country. This feeling was not
favourable to civil government—(hear, hear)—nor calcu-
lated to advance it. This was the point that struck him
during the debate. It was their duty to seriously consider the
place which the bill occupied. He had looked at the question
itself, and the position in which it was now placed. The
position was made greater in a much greater degree by the
course which had been adopted by Her Majesty's,Govern-
ment. (Hear.) He could not forget that at the return
of the Earl of Derby as Minister of the
Crown that there was a promise. (Hear.) It was a
Conservative promise, and the question of the Irish Church
was to stand in the van. Soon after that promise was
given his noble friend the Secretary for Ireland made a
speech, in which he intimated in plain language that it
was the intention of her Majesty's Government to endow
a Catholic university —(hear, hear.)—but a university
which should be under no public control. (Hear, hear.)
Neither party w2s satisfied. It did not satisfy the
Roman Catholics, and the Irish Protestants viewed it with
dismay. The noble lord ha I termed this religious
equality, or a process of levelling up. This did not suit
any party. But this was nut all—there was a deputa-
tion which provided for the increase of the Regium
Donutn, and that no further assistance should
be given to the Roman Catholics. The answer to this
was most satisfactory. The present cry was one which
was justified only by the direst political noceseities. It
there was one thing that he coredumued her Majesty's
Uoverment for, it was the course that it had taken with
regard to the buoying up of the Irish Church.
There was nothing more wanton than this conduct.
The English Church would obtain greater power in the
hearts of the people, while on the other hand the Irish
Church would be in quite a different position., The noble
earl who introduced the second reading of the bill
was probably not aware of the importance of the ques-
tion. Ho did not know that the House of Commons
had passed an act which in the West ladies disesta-
blished every right that the Church of England had. In
the West Indies they had a Church which, when this
measure came into operation, would be much worse off
than the Church of behind. With these views he could
not take upon himself the responsikility of voting for the
rejection of the bill.

Lord REDESDALE pronounced the b!11 an act of sacri-
lege; and contended that the Sovereign, who conscien-
tiously objected to it, would be justified in alleging the
Coronation Oath as a reason for refusing to accept the ad-
vice of any Minister to sanction the dlsestabl:shment o
the Protestant Church In Ireland.
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH taunted Lord earner-
von with never having lost an opportunity since he se-
ceded from the Government of attacking and bespattering
his former colleagues with political dirt. He denied that
Ministers had ever proposed to endow the Roman Catholic
University, as their scl:eino contemplated merely the pro-
vision of certain expenses, and not endowment. This

question, however, had been taken up as a prlitical cry--a
last deswrate effort to reunite the scattered fragments of
the Liberal party. lie expressed an earnest hope that
their lordships would r, j,:ct a measure wirch sooner or
later must lead to the disestablishment of the Church of
England, united as it was iu the most solemn bonds with

the Church of lreiand.

Lord DUFFERIN declared that he was connected with
the most Protestant provincJ in Ireland, and yielding to no
one in attachment to the Protestant Church, yet ho could
with an unfaltering judgment give his vote for the bill.
The Archbishop of YORK opposed the measure from a
purely ecclesiastical point of view.
Lord ROMILLY supported the bill.

The Archbishop of ARMAGH said he was sure that
their lordships would never assent to such a measure
until they had that which they had not now, some infor-
mation respecting the disposal of the funds to be derived
from the process of confiscation. The Established Church
in Ireland was felt by all classes of Protestants to be the
bulwark of their civil and religions liberties. Its mainte-
nance was guaranteed by the Act of Union ; its spiritual
influence was never more widely and beneficially felt than
at present ; and as the fruits of its teaching, the Pro-
testants of Ireland wore the most enterprising and indus-
trious portion of the community, and in agitated periods
had always been conspicuous in their loyalty. In the de-
gree in which the Protestant Church was depressed would
the Roman Catholic Church be raised ; and if this measure
was adopted the Queen's supremacy would be eventually
transferred to a foreign potentate, and her crown in Ireland
Would be almost at his disposal.

The debate was continued by the Earl of Cork and the
Duke of Somerset, who spoke in favour of the bill, and
the Duke of Rutland against it.
The Marquis of SALISBURY comment3d on the fact
that the supporters of the bill had shown an ostentatious
contempt for it, inasmuch as they had scarcely said a syl-
lable about the measure itself, but a good deal concerning
every other possible question. The framers of the bill
might have adopted the usual course, and prepared a bill
providing that all persons who accepted benefices in future
should have no claim to compensation ; but as they had
not taken that course, he concluded that they had the
further object of committing their lordships to their larger
and ulterior designs. There was no plan of " disendow-
ment " before the House, and the supporters of the bill
were very chary in reference to the subject. Late expe-
rience had taught him the folly of the "no surrender "
policy, which personally he should have preferred, but
the strongest fortress was of little use when the
garrison would net stand to their guns. With
regard to the property of the Irish Church, he trusted
their lordships would discard the watchword "spoliation,"
and inquire for themselves by what right that property
could be regarded as belonging to the nation, to be dealt
with now as unscrupulous despots and Parliaments might
have disposed of it previously.

The Earl of HARROWBY was of opinion that the pass-
ing of this measure, so far from having any influence in
haling the wounds of Ireland, would only have the effect
of opening fresh ones.

The Bishop of KILLALOE complained of the combi-
nation which had been formed for the destruction of the
Irish Church. The State had been unable to ally itself
with the Church of the majority in Ireland, and had there-
fore established the Church of the next largest body, and
which institution was identical with that of England.
On the motion of the Duke of ARGYLL, the debate
was adjourned until Monday.
Their lordships then separated.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—YESTERDAT.
The SPEAKER took the chair at two o'clock.
FOREIGN CATTLE MARKET BILL.
Lord R. MONTAGU moved the house go into com-
mittee on this bill, the object of which was merely to
carry out a policy originated in the clause formally moved
by the hon. member for the Tower llamlete. Ile argued
in support of his motion that the bill would act as a great
security against the reintroduction of the cattle plague,
and act in every way for the benefit of the consumer. The
beneficial effects of slaughtering anim ils not in a good
state of health at the point of debarkati)n was much to
be preferred to allowing the beasts to bo sent a long
journey by rail during which the most serious results
would follow. There had been so:no objection urged
igainst the bill by the importers of foreign cattle, but ho
.bought what they had p trtlealarly to deal with was not
the effect the bill would have on the foreign trade, but
what it would do for the English an lScoteh cattle farmers.
.fe could understand the opposition that was raise I to this
bill, as it was a preventive measure in the meat extended
,;ense, and oven those who did not approve of the measure
were compelled to admit that there would be an advau-
t ige of confining the importation of foreign cattle to ono
icnall spot, and the bill ought to establish a foreign cattle
narket at a place down the river. Every facility would
be given to the importer and dealer as to the removal and
'laughtering, and he thought the measure was ono that
vould bo of the greatest advantage to both importer,
leak; and consumer.

Mr. M. GIB 30N moved the following amendm3nt :
That the propmal to pass a permaaeut law, requiring