The Sun.
London, England, 1850-06-18 00:00:00

,irne popular outbreaks in Ireland, will it not be of the
high c,t rgivattage to see one civil officer who hiss to

communicate will the Commander cf the Forces hi

ord€r of to suppress the outrages that have
arisen—to have one man ready to deal with the exi-
gencies of every part of the empire, than to have two
men bosh responsible. for the maintenance of the public
peace, and holding, it may be, different and conflicting
views on a matter of such importnacci as the restoration
of the public peace through the npplication of military
torte?—(Hear, hear.) We see the Secretary of State
for the Home Department already overburdened with
business, and my whole experience tends to show that

the conflict of co-equal authority will_ only add to his
difficulties. Now with respect to unity of legislation.
We all know that it is of the utmost advantage that
our Irish legislation should, as nearly as possible, con-
form in principle and in details with our legislation
for England. It is easy to say that; but, when we
come to the practical application of the prin-
ciple, how many difficulties do we not find in the way?
—(hear, hear.) Must the one Secretary, before he
proceeds to legislate, hold frequent communications with
his brother Secretary on those points that are to form
the groundwork of proceeding for that part of the king-
dom under his jurisdiction'? If, on the other hand,
there is to be no such communication—if one is to legis-
late for Ireland and the other for the rest of the empire,
without communication, then you undergo the risk of
causing such material differences as must disturb the
harmony of the whole. I assume there will be co m-

tuunicalion between the Secretaries; and I only say,
that however pressing the amount of business might be,
I would rather be responsible for the whole of the
legislation of the country than for all the unsatisfactory
details which would be inevitable under such a system.
—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the administration
of criminal justice in Ireland, if there he a separate
Secretary of State for that country what will be the
consequence? There will be communications carried
on by the judges and by the Attorney-
General and Solicitor-General with the .Secretary of
State, and thus you will be keeping up a distinction in
the Irish ainainistration of justice which it isyour ob-

ject to avoid. Whereas, if Chore were but one Secretary
of State for the united empire, who should be respon-
sible for the advice given to the Crown in respect to the
exercise of the prerogative of mercy for all parts of the
United Jiingdom, my opinion is, that the burden it would
cast on the shoulders of that one Secretary would not
be more onerous than it is at present, while the satisfac-
tion it would give would be much greater, from the con-
viction which the people of Ireland would feel that the
same principle in the administration of the law and in
the exercise of the prerogative of mercy was applied to
all parts of the kingdom. I do not wish to deny the
fact as to the extent of the business which presses
upm the Ministers; and there is no effort I would
not make to relieve the Secretary of State for
the Homo Department from many of the functions
which he now performs, in order to make him respon-
sible for the administration of the criminal law both in
England and in Ireland. For instance, if it be true that
the superintending the adminstration of the criminal
Jaw be too heavy a duty for the Secretary of State to
perform, why not, if you are going to alter the consti-
tution of the office of Lord Chancellor, by appointing
two judges to discharge the duties which the Lord
Chancellor now performs—why not transfer the ad-
ministration of the details of criminal justice to those
new officers, in order that the Secretary of State might
be able to apply his undivided attention to legislation
for the united empire, and to the duties of the executive
government? Depend upon it, if you make the change
proposed by this Bill, what you will want in Ireland
will he the moral influence of a man of the highest au-

thority. I consider that authority will be much higher
if it be exercised by the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, possessed of all the authority which
the Crown can confer upon him for the administration of
the whole connected affairs of the united empire. That au-
thority will be much greater than if you constitute a dis-
tinct Secretary of State for administering those separate
functions in one pars only of the United Kingdom. But
Ido not at present understand how it is proposed that
the Secretary of State is to discharge his duties. Is he
to ba resident in Ireland during that period of the year
when his Parliamentary duties may not require his pre-
sence in England? and, if he be resident in Ireland, will
he have full power, which a Secretary of State ought to
have in times of emergency, of acting, not only with
formal authority, but with a known, patent, and unques-
tioned authority, which free access to the Sovereign ne-
cessarily confers? Will he be enabled to suggest the
Queen's commands as the ground for those acts of au-
thority he may at any time exercise? But, if he be re-
sident in Ireland, I don't see why the objection which
has been made to the applications that are frequently
forwarded by the magistrates of Ireland to the Lord-
Lieutenant for advice in the execution of their magiste-
rial duties, should not be equally applicable to the case
of the Secretary of State, to whom, no doubt, the magis-
trate would be as ready to apply for advice as to the
Lord-Lieutenant. If, however, the new Secretary of
State is to reside in this country, then I do not see why
you should not make the experiment you are now about
to make by calling upon the present Secretary of State
for the Home Department to perform these united
functions. I recollect, during the late war, that all the
functions, and the whole of the administration of Colo-
nial and foreign affairs, were performed by one Secretary
of State. If the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey)
would only say " I will undertake to perform the Irish
as well as the English affairs, only give me a proper
number of subordinates," my opinion is he would find
it perfectly practicable to accomplish the object desired.
If he would take upon himself the sole control over the
administration of criminal justice, and over the legisla-
tion on that branch of the government, he may depend
upon it he would not have a greater demand upon his
duce than he would have if he were united with an Irish
colleague who would be constantly telling him, what all
Irish Members were ever telling us, that Englishmen
knew nothing about Ireland—(Much laughter)—that
no Englishman is at all fit to govern that
country. It is true, when Irishmen came over
here they heard Englishmen talk of certain
principles of justice and of equity, and so forth;
but still no Englishman could understand the mystery
of Irish society.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) This
Irish Secretary would no doubt be followed by many of
his Irish friends in this House, and the Right Honour-
able Gentleman would soon find the Irish Secretary,
co-ordinate and co-equal with himself, a very disagree-
able colleague, and one not likely to relieve him trom
the burden of any portion of that business the discharge
of which was the cause of great anxiety and uneasiness
of mind to him on whom the responsibility of that de-
partment of the Executive Government devolved. I
therefore most honestly and earnestly advise the Right
Honourable Gentleman to take the administration of
those functions upon himself, even though he should
have another 10th of April to contend with. For it is
of importance that the same mind which has to
guard against any dangers that may threaten this
metropolis should be equally called upon to
take into consideration whether similar arrangements
would be necessary in the event of the city of Dub-
lin or any other part of the United Kingdom being in
danger of having its peace disturbed. A command of
time, and less of change, a unity of system, and a pros-
peCt of inspiring confidence, besides the facilities for con-
ducting a joint administration of affairs, are in my opi-
nion advantages infinitely more likely to be enjoyed if
the functions of this department are exercised by one
Secretary of State than if the duties should be performed
by two. I wish to destroy the impression which ap-
pears always to rest in the minds of Irish gentlemen,
that it is necessary for them constantly to refer to Go-
vernment for advice. I wish them also to see that the
proposal for transferring a portion of the authority now
held by the Lord-Lieutenant to the municipal corpora-
tions would not at all solve the difficulty. It may be
quite right. for •aught I know, to transfer some of those
goiters to the corporations, and considering that the
successful result of the exercise of the municipal autho-
rity in the city of Dublin has been so great—( Much
laughter)—it may be the opinion of Honourable Gen-
tlemen that by increasing their powers we should
be increasing the benefits arising from their exer-
cise. Still I do not apprehend that any increased
powers given to the municipalities of Ireland would
solve the difficulty created by taking away the govern-
ment of the Lord-Lieutenant. Let the corporations
have additional powers, if it be necessary, but that is a
separate question altogether; and let it therefore stand
upon its own independent merits. Giving increased
authority to the municipalities will not assist either one
Secretary or two Secretaries in determining the princi-
ples of legislation, or aid them in conducting the ordi-
nary affairs of government. Ido not, however, view
with complete freedom from uneasiness and anxiety the
change you are contemplating. I will not stop to con-
sider some questions which have been suggested in the
course of the debate, but this I will say, ,that if you
think the city of Dublin is likely to be injuriously af-
fected by the loss of the Lord-Lieutenant, I am of
opinion that we shall be bound to consider, equitably
and liberally, the claim which Dublin may have for
compensation. I do not mean a claim in the shape of
a grant, bat a general claim, without pretending pre-
cisely to say whet pecuniary compensation it should be.
I do net entirely agree with the Noble Lord in the opi-
nion that all the sums which have hitherto been spent in
Dublin would henceforth return to the different localities
and be 'expended there. lam rather afraid that a single
Court with increased, splendour—for the splendour of the
British Court, eplendid as it now is, would undoubtedly
be incensed, and would be adorned by Irish gentlemen
and Irish ladies—would have a tendency to increase ab-
senteeism—(Hear, hear)—and that it would not be to
the counties of Ireland that the benefit would accrue,
but rather to England, by a concentration of society in
this country. However, I am prepared to incur that
risk, but that which I shall ask as a compensation for
the risk I am willing to incur is, that we shall so make
our arrangements for the legislation and government of
Ireland as shall insure as much uniformity and as much
unity as it is possible for legislation to effect.—(Hear.)
Mr. ROCHE was greatly surprised and much pained
at the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman. It was a
speech that would revive feelings for a repeal of the
union in breasts where those feelings were 'gradually
dying away. The Right Hon. Gentleman was of opinion
that the Bill did not go far enough, because it still
maintained in Ireland a separate bar and a separate
Lord Chancellor. He, however, derived one consolation
from the Right Hon. Baronet's speech. Though, if its
principle were carried out, it would be injurious to Ire-
land, still it was a speech altogether against this Bill.
He warned the Government against making a change
for the worse, and making that change at a wrong time.
They told them they were not self-dependent enough,
and then they brought in this Bill to make them depend
still more upon them. As far as he was concerned,
they might take away the Lord-Lieutenant altogether,
but do not take with him every valuable and useful in-
stitution they still had left in Ireland. But he did not
think the Government would succeed in carrying the
measure. The Idea of March were come, but they were
not passed. The Irish Members were few and weak in
that House, but they possessed the confidence of Ireland,