The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-20 00:00:00

LONDON, SATURDAY 'EVENING, MARCH 20, 1858.

EAST INDIA HOUSE, 18111 MARCH, 1858.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, That the next
Examinations of Candidates for the appointinent of
Assistant-Surgeon in the service of the East India Company, will be
held at this House on MONDAY, the 10th of May, and 12th of July
next, and succeeding days ; and that the probable number of
vacancies in the Medical Establishment to be then filled up will be
twenty-five on each occasion.
Copies of the Regulations for the admission of Candidates will be
furnished on application to the Secretary to the Military Depar'-
mint in this House.

S. D. DICKINSON, secretary.

EAST INDIA. HOUSE, 182 a MARcn, 1858.
THE COURT of DIRECTORS of the EAST
INDIA. COMPANY do Hereby Give Notice, That a Pro-
prietor of East India Stock, John Jones, E sq., has given notice of
his intention to submit the following motion at the Quarterly Ge-
neral Court of the said Compan% , appointed to be he a at their
House, in Leadenhall-street, on WEDNESDAY next, the 24.11 L►stant,
viz.:—

" That It is our duty to return the Kingdom of Oude to the
King, or some representative of his family "
J. D. DICKINSON, Secretary.

FREIGHT FOR HORSES FROM' THE CAPE OF GOOD HOPE

FOR INDIA.

EAST INDIA HOUSE, ISTII 31s.scu, 1851.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN to Shipowners,
Colliers, and Exporters of Coal to the Cape of Good Hope,
and others trading with that colony and with India: That the Go-
vernor and Commander-in-Chief o the Cape of Good Hope has
authority to purchase such horses suited to Cavalry purposes as may
be procurable, to the extent of 1,000 horses, provided Tonnage can
be obtained for their conveyance to India.
The Court of Directors of the East India Company therefore
notify to the shipping interest In the United Kingdo.n, that reight
or that description tray probably be in demand at the Cape of Good
Hope, and that all vessels which may be offered at the Cape for such
service ought to be supplied with water casks or tanks equal to main-
taining a supply of water sufficient for . the number of horses for
Which freight may be tendered.

J. D. DICKINSON, Secretary.

rrHE RHINE AND GERMANY.—The
IL Shortest and Cheapest Route, via Rotterdam, to the Rhine
and Germany, is by THE DUTCH RHENISH RAILWAY.
Through Trains, in conjunction with those of the Cologne-Minden
Company, start three times a day.
Fifty pounds of Luggage allowed free for each passenger.
Further particulars forwarded, post free, on application to the
Company's London agent, Mr. Joint C. Jartsox, 61, Gracechurch-
street.

L OND ON AND, SOUTH-WES TERN
4 PER CENT. DEBENTURE STOCK.
The Directors of the London and South-Western Railway Com-
pany are prepared to receive applications for the issue of portions of
the Company's Perpetual 4 per Cent. Debenture Preferential Stock,
to be inscribed in the books of the Company in the names of appli-
cants, without payment of stamp duty or other like expense.
This stock will be issued under the authority of the " South-
West4rn Railway Capital and Works Act, 1855," and of a resolu-
tion of a special general meeting of the Company held in conformity
therewith, on the 7th Augast, 1856.
The amount thus raised will be exclusively applied in reduction of
the debenture debt of the Company, and it will be entitled to the
same priority against the property and income of the Company as
the debenture debt, in substitution for which it is created.
It will therefore rank before 301 the Company's stock and
share capital, representing upwards of Seven Millions, on which,
in the year 1857, the aggregate amount of dividend (atter payment
of interest on all debenture) was 350,0001. and upwards.
The fixed dividend or interest will commence from the time of
payment and will be paid half-yearly.
Forms of application may be obtained by letter, addressed to the
-undersigned. _ _

By Order of the Directors.
ALFRED MORGAN, Treasurer.
Waterloo Station, London S, March 11, 1858.

would be dissolved. It might be replied that it wowed
rest urea Indian revenue elene, but he had shown that
lone ago, when the Company was a trading company,
the doctrine was recognised that England was bound to
come forward in seasons of exigency. He knew that
the argument he was now urging was not 'a popular one,
but he knew also that the noble earl at the head of the
Government did not wish that Parliament should legis-
late in the dark, or that any doubt should exist as to
the effect of the law they were now passing. He had
high authority in support of his views, for the present
Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the debate upon the
India Bill on Feb. 18, said :
" Let naseremind the house of the bill now on the table
for raising money for the service of India, and of the effect
on our finance, and on Indian finance, of the proposal of
Government. It is idle any longer to distinguish between
English and Indian finance. If the President of the Indian
Council, a Queen's Minister is Downing-street, should find
it necessary to_ raise, money by a public loan to pay her
Majesty's troops in India, it will be idle when the dividends
are due upon that loan to pretend to assert that he will be
able to say, if the means are not at hand, ' The Exchequer
of India is empty, and the revenue of India is alone liable.'
Every gentleman will see in his own mind that such a dis-
tinction as this between the finances of India and the
finances of England cannot beretained for a moment, and
that a blow on British credit at its very source, and where
the tide is highest, is infallible arid inevitable."
The rigbt hon. gentleman who had used this language
had expreesed in the most distinct and irrefragable man-
ner the c )nc'ti ions to which to-(Lord Monteagle) had
also come. He could net understand, indeed, by what
process of rea oning any hon. Lentleinan could satisfy
email that the reeponsibility would not fall upon this
country if there were any deficiency in the revenue of
India which the Gevernment had not the power of sup-
plying by taxation there. This was a point that required
to be clearly explained, because the government had no
right to leave those who lent money for India in any
doubt as to the obligation for repayment. He had thought
it his duty to address these observations to their lord-
ships, but he would not aik the noble earl for one me.
meat to postpong the bill, the; great importance of ithlai
he freely admitted; (Hoer.) - •
'The Earl of ELLENBOROITak (who from turning
h's back on the gallery was occasionally very indistinctly
heard) said—lf I understand aright the object of the mea-
sure which was proposed by the elate Government, and
the object of the measure to be proposed by her Majesty'si
present Government, it is to give to India the benefit of
a cheaper and better government, and if that object
should be accomplished, undoubtedly the danger to this
country from being called on to assist India in her pecu-
much diminished.
y
to be the duty of
noliaeryar,dhiffieacru.)ltiews
hwaotulldunbceiersvtaernd
the person placed at the head of Indian affairs in
endeavour thin country,
to whoever
reduce be
theexpenditure may be
in India as to, is, that he should
make that expenditure come within the revenue. (Hear,
hear.) That is undoubtedly his first duty, and above all
things he must desire, and I trust will succeed in reliev-
ing this country from any burden on account of India.
(Hear, hear.) My lords, though the difficulty is very
great, I venture to look forward with some degree of
hope to the ultimate result. I recollect that when, nearly
30 years ago, I undertook the duties of the same office
which I now hold the pecuniary difficulties we bad to
encounter were similar to those now experienced, and
then, with the assistance and under the advice of the
late Duke of Wellington, in less than two and a half
years we carried into effect a reduction in the expendi-
ture amounting to 1,800,0001., a large portion of which
was permanent. (Hear, than) No doubt the pecuniary
difficulties arising cut of the present condition of India
are very great. We are compelled, and will be compelled,
to employ ha that country more than 40 additional bat-
talions of European tr ;ors ; at least 10, if not many
more, additional regiments of European cavalry ; and
also a large force of European ar illery—a portion of the
army which was formerly in the hands of the natives.
Undoubtedly this causes a oval addition to the expen-
diture, for the expense of European soldiers is very
nearly equal to three times that of the native troops. It
is, therefore, perfectly impos,ible for us to effect au
equalisation of the revenue and expenditure without a
rseindguctien in my mind
with of 64
very great reduction of the native army. (Hear, hear.)
presentAtthreegardto
them moment that B
wehnigchalisis a
passing
battalions ; and my noble friend may depend upon it
that if I am to be at the head of this great work, I shall
do it with the determination of succeeding if success be
possible. (Hear, hear,) I know it will be necessary to
make a great reduction of expenditure, and I am pre-
pared to find that this will be All act of great unpopu-
larity. That will be to me, however, a matter of very
small account. (Hear.) I shalt proceed, as I proceeded
before, in the way I have mentioned to your lordship?,
by endeavouring in every direction to make all such re-
ductions as appear to me can be made consistently with
the pubic interest. (Heir, hear.) My noble friend ob-
served that this loan differs altogether from the loans
raised in this country--that the loans raised in this coun-
try are for a definite obj sot. but that this is not, being
for the general expenditure of India. But, though dif-
fering in its general-character from the loans raised for
the service of-this 'Country, This loan -entirely agrees
with the power of raising money which from time im-
memorial has been extended to the East India Company.
(Hear, hear.) The-East India Company has always had
the power of raising 7,000,0001. in India, of which bor-

rowing power a portion remains at the present moment
unexhausted. At this moment there remains the

power of borrowing about 1,000,0001. No doubt the
Company has been favoured with a large extension of
the power of borrowing, but all times this has seemed to
Parliament to be perfectly consistent with the public
interests. (Hear.) It is extremely probable that cir-
curnetancesiarising out of present events may render it
necessary for the Government of India to depend alto-
gether for a time on the means of borrowing, and not on
revenue. (Hear, hear.) My noble friend has looked
back for 20 years, and has mentioned years in which
there has been a surplus of 5,000,0001. and other years
in which the deficiency has been as high as 15,000,000/. ;
but my noble friend must recollect that those 20 years
embraced four of war with Affghsnistan, two of war in
the Punjab, and also, what I certainly cannot call a
costly war, that of Seiude. The result of these wars
was to add many millions to the expenditure. But if for
the last 10 years of the period my noble friend has re-
ferred to there has been apparently added a sum of
7,000,0001., as he states, to the expenditure, he should
recollect that during that time the balances in the
Indian treasury have increased 3,300,0001. ; so that, in
point of fact, the total increase of debt was only
3,700,0001. ; and if against the increase of debt he will
place 4,000,000/. or 5,000,0001. expended on public
works, some cf which are of a lucrative nature, he wilt
find that the revenue during these last 10 years stands
better than it did in the period before. (Hear,
hear.)
My noble friend has gone into details with respect to
the land and other portions of the revenue of India. I
speak from recollection, but when I was in India I con-
sidered this question of the land revenue as closely as
possib'e, and I thiekthe result of myinquiries as regards
Bengal was that the land revenue might be increased
about 100,0001. a-year. As regards the revenue horn
opium, no one can look to it without apprehension, for
varioue circumstances occurring from time to time may
affect the amount received. I should have mentioned
among the things that affected the Indian revenue in the
period of 10 years to which I referred, the war with
China, which though in one sense it cost India nothing,
occasioned great lose to its revenue, the. trade in opium
having been reduced to the extent of 50 per cent. At the
present moment the amount derived from opium is very
large, and the demand for it seems to increase greatly,
for it is an extraordinary fact that, notwithstanding the
large amount of opium now sent to China, the cetnand
is still extending in that direction. (Hear.)
Now, I must
say, on the supposition that we are enabled to give good
government to India, that I do not see why we should
despair of seeing India hereafter raised to a state of great
prosperity. It is the meet extensive empire and the
richest in the world. It is traversed in all directions by
noble rivers, which can be made navigable by art. We
are now ti aversieg it in all directions by railroads, sad
I cannot msderstand why, with all our European energy
and knowledge and civilisation, we should not make
India as productive as it was in the time of Arangzebe.
He derived a very large revenue from the portion of In-
dia which he had—as large a revenue, I believe, as we
now derive from the whole country. (Hear.) I confi-
dently look forward to the realisation of that object,
which, if it can he accomplished, will be particularly gra-
tifying to my noble friend, who very naturally takes a
fiscal view of this question, and considers mainly in what
manner the revenue of India is to be raised. I know
acts with injuri-
ill do more
tlihguaentnp:eirdwonable thatfoours t
:s
parsimony
rgsiou governmentjndo ntyf,
on
ne
the
legenupoi
ldneee d
than b y
hand,i
nt
or
rl
extra-
vagance on the other, and so impoverishes the country.
(Hear, hear) I w'll only venture to say further that I
hope that bef ire a fortnight has elapsed my noble friend
will see that we have taken steps for proposing to Par-
liament measures that will have the effect, not only of
giving good government to India, but of greatly im-
proving its revenue. (Bear, hear.)
Earl GRANVILLE—I recollect that at the last
stage of
the bill my noble friend near me
complimented the noble earl opposite on
the very
satisfactory statement which ho then made with regard
esat (Lord Mont-
to India ; but I cannot help thinking that my noble
friend has not to-night followed the text on which Fe
then preached. (Hear, hear.) There is no doubt that
the finances of India require great attention, and I be-
lieve that a reform in them might be most advanta-
geously carried out. 1 th'nk, even with regard to the
system of accounts, much remains to be done under that
head. The income of last year has of course suffered
from the rebellion, but I believe some compensation for
that will be found in the fact of the Company having
been released from some of its liabilities. I do trust that
in the reorganisation of thearmy, although I quite agree
that it will be necessary to increase very much the num-
ber of European troop', it will not be found impossible
on the whole to
(Hear.)reduce aconsiderably
tafone the expenses of the
Indian army.thing I am quite
certain, and that is, that the real economy
must depend
on the local Government of India. (Hear, hear.) If
you once encourage the local Government to believe that
they have facilities for raising money, not
on the sena-
rity of the Indian revenue, but-on the security of. the
Crown and the Parliament of this country, there will be
encouragements to a lavish expenditure, which will not

take place if they find they are checked by the difficulty
of raising loans merely on the security of the Indian Go-
vernment itself. (Hear.) I think this is a most impor-
tant consideration. The noble lord referred to certain
assistance which-- bad been given by this country to
India at a former period. No one can doubt that el-
- may arise in which this country might think
fit in some way or other to afford assistance to India ;
but I don't understand how the form of Government at
home can in the slightest degree affect that question. It
appears to me that it would be entirely unreasonable to
raise money now at a higher rate on the security of the
Indian revenue, and then to look afterwards to the Eng-
lish Government for the repayment of the advance. I
believe that could not have been the intention of Sir R.
Peel when he stated, as he did on one occasion, that it
might be necessary for this country to come to the
assistance of India in a time of great difficulty. I really
have nothing more to say in defence of this bill. The
noble earl upon whom has devolved the responsibility
of conducting it through your lordships' boase has dis-
pose] of the arguments raised against the measure. I
entirely deny that by this bill we glee in the slightest
degree any collateral security further than the revenues
of India. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—The noble earl is
quite right. Neither by this bill, nor on any ether
ground, can India evade in the slightest degree the lia-
bility thrown upon it to repay the whole of this lot!.
As regards what Sir R. Peel appears to have saiii,l was
in India at the time he made the speech to which refe-
rence has been made, and I recollect reading that speech
with complete astonishment. What he could have meant
I cannot understand. I felt I was thou thoroughly lode=
pendent. I had to pay my own way, and I never had the
slightest chance of obtaining assistance from this noun-
try. beWhat assistance Sir R. Peel could have contem-
plated, I repeat, I cannot understand.
Earl GREY—My lords, I rejoice to find that, with a
single exception, there is a general repudiation by your
lordships of the doctrine that by this bill any engagement
whatever can be implied on the part of Parliament to make
up any deficiency in the revenue of India to provide for
the interest of the loan about to beneade. (Hear.) Ithinic
there is no obligation, either moral or otherwise, imposed
on this country to pay the debts of India. If it were
otherwise, what would be the consequence I If you adoph
the principle that this country may be answerable foe
debts contracted by India, you must follow it up by
taking care that the whole expenditure of the Indian
Government shall be brought under the consideration of:
Parliament, and Parliament must exercise a close ecru

tiny over that expenditure. (Hear, hear.)— But more
than that. If that principle is to be applied to India,
must it not be extended to other dominions of the Crown!
(Hear, hear.) And remember there are domieions of
the Crown—such as Trinidad, the Mauritius, and others,
which do not possess any representative Legislatures. I
contend that the principle is one which we cannot too
studiously guard against admitting either directly or in-
directly. (Hear.) I hold that the revenue of India, and
the revenue of India alone, is pledged by this bill.
(Hear, hear.) There are reasons of policy which make
it desirable that English security should not extend to
loans contracted on behalf of India. I think it desir-
able that there should be a great number of persons
in this country who would take an interest in seeing
that the affairs of India are so managed as to con-
duce to the welfare of the native population under our
rule and to the interests of the mother country,- and
who would exercise a check on the misgovernment
of India by which the security of private property
might be injured. I am persuaded that if India
is properly governed the security it affords for
this loan is a very good one. (Cheers.) I have heard with
great satisfaction the views stated by the noble earl op-
p site (the Earl of Ellenborough). I believe with him the
resources of India are so great that, if properly adminis-
tered, they will furnish ample means of repaying the debt.
I was glad to hear that he looks to the possibility of re-
ducing the expenditure of India, especially the military
exp-nditure. (Hear.) So, from the fearful calamities
consequent upon the mutiny, we may at least derive this
benefit, that in future the policy pursued towards India
will be very different from what it has been heretofore.
We have hitherto kept up a disproportionate army in
India, not so much for internal purposes as with a view
to meet imaginary external dangers. The real source of

our calamity in India and of our future danger, is the
warlike policy on which we have acted. I trust we shall

now feel the necessity of keeping our army in India, and
particularly the native army, within moderate limits ;
and we shall then adopt the principle of not meddling in
' the affairs of our neighbour?, a course which has drawn
us into expensive wars and been the cause of all our
diffleulLies. If the money thrown away on the Affghan
war had been applied to internal improvements, how far
it would have gone to increase the security of our posi-
tion in the country and to e,tablish our influence in the
central parts of Asia. (Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE reminded the
house that in 1773 Lard North complained of the con-
duct of the East India Company being so oppressive
towards the natives that it was absolutely necessary to
subject it to the control of the Crown, and at the same
time proposed a loan from Parliament to the Company
of 1,400,000/. No doubt, the resources- of India, If
properly developed, were folly equal to make it one of
the richest governments, as it was by nature about the
richest empire, in the world. But to attain that end a
very different system of administration must be in-

troduced into that country from that which bad pre.
vailed under the East India Company. The noble earl

bad referred to the reduction of the army of Bengal, but
the army of Bombay required almost as much looking
into it as what was left of the Bengal army, Indeed, to

effect great reductions the army of-all the presidencies
must undergo revision. Nor, indeed, ought their eco-
nomy to be confined to the military service. The sala-

ries now paid to the civil service of India were in many
instances in the highest degree exorbitant. If the Ad-
ministration of that country was to be put upon a proper
footing, with a view to its being permeated throughout
by British capital and British enterprise, and to its
being really civilised, they must establish better laws
and an improved judicial system. This, however, would
lead to a considerable increase of expense, the means of
defraying which could be supplied only by °ireful re-
trenchment in the other branches of the Government.

The noble earl took too bright a view of the probable
prosperity of India for Rome time ; and when he stated
that at the present moment there was such a demand
for opium in Cbina that the value of that drug had
largely increased, and consequently that our opium
revenue had greatly advanced, he should not forget that
this growing demand in China would most likely induce
the Government of that empire to alter a policy which,
though beneficial, perhaps, to this country, was yet per-
f-Ttly absurd in itself. English credit and English reve-
nue were therefore intimately connected with questions
of Indian finance.

The bill was read a third time and passed.
Their lErdtlips then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.)

The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
ADMISSION OF JEWS TO PARLIAMENT.
The Sheriffs of London and Middies, x (Mr. Alderman
Lawrence and Mr. Alderman Allen) presented a peti-
tion from the Corporation of London, praying for the
admission of Jews to Parliament.

ORDERS OF REMOVAL.
Mr. PACKE moved for the following return, showing
the number of orders of removal from parishes signed by
justices and executed in Etiland and %Vales, during the
year ending March 25, 1857; stating she number of
persons removed, the nature of alleged settlement,
and the amount of expenses in the removal, including
the cost of obtaining the orders, serving the same,
and travelling expenses of the paupers removed, but not
the cost of relief before removal ; distinguishing the
orders so executed between parishes in the same union
and between parishes in different unions ; stating also the
number of orders of removal of Scotch and Irish
paupers, and paupers belonging to the Channel Islands
and the Isle of Man, during the same period (in con-
tinuation of Parliamentary paper, No. 436, of Session
1856.)—Agreed to.
LIEUTENANTS OF THE LINE, &c.

Mr. BONHAM.-CARTER moved, in the absence of
Colonel Freestun, an address far return of the number
of lieutenants and ensigns of the Guards, the Line, the
Rifles, and Royal Marines, with a statement of the pay
received by each, and the gro,s amount paid on that
account ; similar return of lieutenants and cornets of ca-
valry; and retur❑ of the number of ensigns who have re-
signed their commissions since the close of the Cri-
mean war.—Agreed to.
MISCELLANEOUS STORES,

Cul. BOLDER° moved an address for an explanatory
statement of the services for which the sum of 510,9641.,
inserted in the army estimates for 185 S-9 (Vote 11), for
the purchase of miscellaneous stores, is required.—
Agreed to.

COALS (ALDERSHOT).
Mr. C. LEGH moved an address for copy of any
reports made by any weekly Board of Survey, condem-
natory of the quality of the coals provided under con-
tract for the use of the troops at Aldershot, with the
dates of such reports, since let Nov., 1857.—Agreed to.

REFORMATORY SCHOOLS.
Mr. GARNETT moved an address for return, giving
a tabulated list, alphabetically arranged in their respec-
tive counties, of all Reformatory Schools which have
been certified and sanctioned by the Secretary of State
under the statutes the 17th and 18th of Victoria, cap 86,
and 17th and 13th of Victoria, cap. 74, respectively,
with the date of certificate ; also the number of juveniles
(distinguishing boys from girls) which each of such schools
is capable of accommodating, and the number contained
in each at the latest date for which the return can be
given.—Agreed to.
ROYAL MILITARY ACADEMY AT SAND-

HURST.
Mr. MONSELL moved an address for copy of the
rules and regulations under which candidates are ad-
mitted to oompete for admission into the Royal Military
Academy at Sandhurst, and those under which the
examinations for admission are conducted ; also for a
detailed report of the examinations held during the pre-
sent year ; the names of the examiners ; the
names of the candidates ; the places of previous
education of each of them ; the number of marks
•
obtained by each in the various subjects of exawina
tion ; the final order of merit in which the caudi-