The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-26 00:00:00

the country, and wha acted with impartiality between
the two parties, instead of by an officer of inferior rank,
whose sympathies must necessarily be engaged on the
one side or the other. (Hear, hear.) There were, there
fora, some circumstances which counterbalanced the ad-
vantages of that unity of administration which in itself
would be a great benefit to the general interests of the
country. But after all, the decision of this question ought
to be left to the feeling of the people of Ireland. (Cheers.)
If the people of Ireland agreed with some of those who
had spoken that evening, that the oontinuance of this
image of royalty was no longer of any use, and formed a
barrier which interposed between them and their real
sovereign—if the people of Ireland thought that local
circumstances rendered it desirable that this establish-
ment should be aboliehed, he should at once be pre-
pared to vote for its abolition, and the substitution of
another arrangement. (Hear, hear.) But if, on the
other hand, he was led to believe that the present tem-
per of the Irish people clung to the establishment
rather than wished for its abolition, he did not think
that the small saving of expense or the advantage,
undeniable as it might be, of greater unity of adminis-
tration should counterbalance the feelings and opinions
of the people of Ireland (cheers from the Irish
members)—and he thought that Parlarrent should defer
to the national feeling on that point. (Cheers.) He
thought the pirople of Ireland had a right to expect that
Parliament would defer to their opinions in favour of
the existence of the office of Lord-Lieutenant. (Cheers.)
Mr. ROEBUCK, in reply, said he had been accused
of great presumption, being an humble and private mem-
ber of Parliament, in daring to bring forward this ques-
tion, and that it was a singular mark of his audacity to
do so. (Laughter.) But let the house rememb r the
authorities he had. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) He
had the authority of the noble lard who sat on his right
band—(hear)—who in 1850 brought in a bill expressly
with the intention of abolishing the office of Lord-Lieu-
tenant and appointing what was then called a fourth
Secretary of State. The noble lord's bill was supported
by the late Sir R. Peel, by the present Home Secretary,
by the noble lord the present Secretary for Ireland, and
in fact by the whole of that bench—('' hear, hear," and
laughter)—and a majority of the members of that house.
Then he was told that he was opposing the feelings of
the people of Ireland ; but how was he to judge of that
when in 1850, just after the famine in Ireland, and the
people were suffering from bad government, a majority
of the Irish members voted for this very amendment /
(Hear, hear.) India was now suffering under a double
government, as Ireland had been suffering from it in
1850 ; and as the noble lord near him rushed with a bill
to remedy the government of Ireland, so did the noble
lord the member for Tiverton rush with his bill to re-
medy the evils of the government of India. (Laughter.)
Seine eight or ten years had passed over since the
famine in Ireland ; and if in 10 years' time some one
prepoaed the previous question in reference to the
government of India, did any one suppose that the noble
lord the member for Tiverton would vote for it, as the
noble lord on his right hand was going to vote for the
previous question that night ! The noble lord near him
was not unversed in politics in 1850—he had arrived at
the years of discretion at that time, ho supposed—and
when he brought in his bill be must have thought that he
was providing a remedy for the evils of the government
of Ireland. S r R. Peel voted with the noble lord ; and
yet he (Mr. Roebuck) was charged with audacity fcr
following iu the steps of the noble lord. (Hear.) He
had no doubt there was some truth in that statement.
(Laughter.) But another thing was said—the previous
reOestien had been 'hayed. Ho was the victim of the pre-
vious question. (Laughter.) Last year he brought in a
p'ain and simple proposition for the abolition of the
Lord-Lieutenancy, and ho was met by the hue and cry
that he bad not proposed a substitute. The then member
for Yarmouth moved the previous question, and the
whole. of that beech went out with him. The noble lord
was not present, but ho understood that he gave an hon.
member authority to quote his opinions strongly in fa-
vour of his motion. Toe right hon. and learned Attor-
ney-General for Ireland (Hr. Whiteside) made a won-
derfully eloquent speech, and he never heard more ca.
ital abuse c.f the office of the Lord-Lieutenaet-
-I(hughter)—but he saved himself by voting for the pre-
eloll3 question, on the ground that he (Hr. Roebuck)
had not proposed any substitute for that office. He
now proposed that substitute, and the right hon. and
leareed gentleman still voted for the previous question.
(Laughter.) The late Chancellor of the Exchequer said
tee had great obj -ctioa to the multiplication of Secreta-
ries of State. He said that four was a good number, but
that flee was a bad number. (Laughter.) Was it indeed?
Theu how came his government to propose a filth Secre-
tary of State fir the government of India. ( dear.) The
right hon. gentleman the Home Secretary said the Lord
Lieutenancy was better as a local authority than a secre-
tary of state. Bat he would ask whether anything was
dove without the authority of the Home Secretary, and
whether the gracious answers given by the Lord-Lieu-
tsualt to deputations in Ireland were not frequently
overturned by the cool and calm directions of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer and the liplue Secretary I
(Hear, bear.) The fact was the Lord Lieutenant was
nothing but an Tale pageant, and what he said in open
ing the debate came upon him at its close, that the die-
tribution of responsibility between the Home Secretary,
the Linl-Lieutenant, and the Irish Secretary, destroyed
responsibility. (Hear, h-ar.) Why did they refuse en
this occasion to vote for that which in their hearts they
approved of ? (Hear, hear.) Because to the present
Government, as to every other Government, it was in-
copvei lent to no so. (dean) The noble lord the Se-
cretary far frelaiid sail leave it to time, a change was
Coming over t' e opinions of the Irish people on this
question. The noble lord had indulged the house with
a calm, cone toou., and excellent speech that night, but
he racollected another speech in which the noble lord
spoke in a different frame of mind of the L t.:4-Lieutenant
1 of Ireland, and wi- h the permission of the house he
Iwould refresh the memory of the noble for +. (Laughter.)
On the secom; reading of the bill introduced by the noble
lsrd nsar irim, the noble lord thus spoke. He quoted
from Ilansurd : "L ioking back as he did upon toe his-
tory of Ireland, he believed that that history was but
one continued scene of misgovernment. He looked upon
the office of Lor .slsieutenant ar the chief feature of that
system, and now that it was proposed to abolish that
office, he could but rejoice at the change." (Laughter.)
Again, in page 1439, lee hand these words of the noble
lord : "As an Irishman he could not view with any
feeling cf el tem a measure which might have the effect
of drawing closer the bonds of union between England
and Irsletel. It Irish influence was really to be felt—if
Irish interests wore really to become powerful—it was not
by provincial, but by imperial influence that those ends
were to be obtained. As m emb members
intrigueo f the
iu imperialthe
C asenate,
Irishmen coaA far hater minister to toe welfare of
Ireland, than by backstairs
Dublin." (Cheers and laughter.) Then he was askeo
on what minority he made this motion. (Laughter.)
Second thoughts, it was said, were best ; but second
thoughts sometimes came under very peculiar cironce•
esa e -s—(laughter) —and the noble lord's speech tc-night
owed its origin, he supp shed, to the peculiar circum-
stance s in which he 110 W wag. (Hear, h ar, and laughter.)
The hot,. member for Norfolk (elr. Bentinek) assailed
him in a mode which he did not think he ever deserved.
(Roar, hear.) But there was a bucolic state of mind,
on which to cast arguments was very much like throw..
ing seeds ueon a rock. (Laughter.) He had done his
duty in this matter. He fonnded his proposal on great
authorities—authorities on which he had more faith thsn
the authors themselves had. (Laughter.) He supposed
it was o :yin to his fault that the question failed that
niglit, for it could not be that the noble lord, and those
whe fillowed them, and who were wise, reasonable,
and exoerienced, did in 1850 what they were ashamed
of in 1858. (Laughter.) In conclusion, he would only
say that if any hon. gentleman were going to vote for
the previous question in honseqnence of the last portion
of his resolution, it was his intention to strike eff that
part of his motion if the house negatived the motiou of
the previous question. (lean)
The house
they qn
t tlaeen,ti cioinvitbleedn:
put."
Toe question.—
Toe numbers were :
Aye 5.............................. 116
Noes .............................. 243-127
The original metier) was, theref ire, not put.
THE DESIGNS FOR MODEL BARRACKS AND
PUBLIC OFFICES.
Mr. B. HOPE moved for copy of a memorial pre-
sented to the Treasury, the War Department, and the
Office of Puolie Welts, from the Royal losetute of
Briti h Architect,,, in reference to the recent competi-
ti ills tor in -del barracks and for public uffices.
Tee Inetion was agreed to.
COLONISA.TION {INDIA) CONINIITTEE.
On the motion a Sir R. FERGUSON, Mr. De Vere was
added to this committee.

i.Kiring movedt the
e f o
r i .
~ENDOWED SCHOOLS (IRELAND).
Mr. BLai:I6IC.::
b
ap rotorsca,t of
the toee
evidence
coat cal
apar print
ing an de-
endo ved sc!loela of Ireland, in four folio volumes, com-
Frising 2.680 pages, and by whose authority the same
-..-e as Kin • '. hon. gentleman held up 415 large
b'ue-blukx, and sail las should :ilia to know the cost of
ttieir production. (Loud cries of "Read, read," and
Imghter.)
Mr. WALPOLE sail he had of en exorcised a wish
that earns s cps should be t•skan far curtailing the ex-
pense of printing reports of this kind. He hoped the
treater wool n.,t drop until it was put on a better foot-
log.. He disapproved of the system of commissioners
ruak'ng separate reports.
The motion was agreed to.
AGRICULPuRcu STATISTICS (SCOTLAND).
Mr. CAI RD cal the attention of the house to this
,übjeet, ' Li' t a 'Ai ;
w to the future o.diection of statisticF.
'Pnose co Lctial volip„tarily in Scotland had peen of
great pul lie utility, and no cla,s derived more benefit
fr.an them than the farnvrs themselves. They had now
13.:en publidred for four years. He would suggest in
suture that the acreaoe of crops under cultivation should
b rv-c:u-tairi ased
'a precaution against scarcity. The
of the proltica was very expensive, and of
ittla u'e. By confining the return to the acr,?a,.4") of
crops u...der cultiva ion much expense would be avoided,
and an uulertaking be cosmic to between the
Goverlimo.,t an I ths Highland Society. The hon.
gentleman cor.cluded by movng fur papers relating to
the agricultural statistics of Scotland.
M"..IILICK said that tl e parties connected with the
li gill mud Soc'e'y had come to the det, rtninatiou not to
coati:. U 3 the lasourg they bad for eerly carried on.
Alr. BLACKBURN doubted th c utility of these
tatist,cs. 14
-ey came out so many mo,ths after the
arves, that they Were of nn use whatever. As to the
acreage that was no guide at all to the amount of the
crop. The difference between the G-Jvernment and the
Ilighian'i S City had arisen from the Govern-
ment objecting to the very small charge which was in-
curred and which was below the estimate.
A'ter a few words from Sir J. OGILVY,
Mr. PENLEY said ho believed the return to the hon.
member's motima would be nil, for there were n.) further
pap,:n. (Laughter.) The statements of the Scotch
members did not hold out much encouragement to the