The Sun.
London, England, 1867-05-28 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIA TENT

MOUSE OF LORDS.-LAST EVENING.
The LOUD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at
five o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Plymouth Corporation Water and Weymouth Con-
sumers Gas Bills were read a second time; the Salford
Borough and Herne Bay Water Bills were read a third
time.

THE CONVICT BURKE.
Lord CLARENDON said he hoped that in asking a
question in relation to the convict Burke, the most strin-
gent investigation had been made in the matter possible;
and after the announcement that bad been made on Satur-
day last by the noble earl opposite, that, through a depu-
tation which had waited upon his Lordship, that the
Council would reconsider their decision, he (the
noble earl trusted that the greatest consider-
ation bad again been exercised to ascertain if possible
whether his life could be spar6d or not.
Lord DERBY said that no one could conceive the deep
responsibility- which rested upon those who had the duty
of advising her Majesty to exercise her preroga-
tive of mercy or not than he did. It was the
responsibility that should decide the life and death of a
fellow-creature;and deeply had they felt this on Wednes-
day last on looking into all the circumstances, and were
deeply grieved that they could not do otherwise
than advise her Majesty that the sentence of death
should be carried out against the convict Burke.
Bat since that period they had been convinced by repre-
sentations from the highest quarters,which representations
deserved the highest respect, that the feeling of the whole
country was that mercy should be extended, and
therefore they had advised her Majesty to exercise her
royal prerogative of mercy, and her Majesty had
signified her assent. The life of Burke would, there-
fore, be spared. But he (the noble earl) must ask their
lordships to remember that this was no rebellion in which
the feelings of party might be concerned, but an attempt
by misguided people to upset the peace and order of a
whole people, and to retard in all probability the progress
of Ireland for a long period. Under those circumstances
the offences of Burke were of the highest class,
and deserved most fully the punishment awarded
to them. However, they (the Government) had
concluded to exercise mercy, and if they had erred it was
on the side of leniency. He trusted that the warm-
hearted feeling of the Irish nation would appreciate the
concession. (Hear, hear.)
A NOBLE Loan said that would be the crowning act
of vengeance against the misguided Fenians.
THE ADMIRALTY, PROBATE, AND DIVORCE

sought to deceive and entrap the house into a step which
it was most desirable should not be taken. The clause
that had been brought forward by Government was with
the view of fulfilling an engagement made with the House
of Commons originating with the proposition of the hon.
member for Newark. The policy before the house was the
policy of the House of Commons, and not that of her Ma-
jesty's Government. If the house did not approve of the
propositions of the hon. members for Newark, Pomfret, and
South Lancashire, the house objected to their policy, -and
not the policy of her Majesty's Government. With re-
spect to the county franchise, the Government could
not adopt the proposition of the honourable mem-
ber for Bridgewater ; and in the adoption of £l5 as the
qualification for the county franchise, the Government only
adopted that figure because they thought it gave a real
and substantial basis for resting such qualification. With

respect to the proposition of the hon. member for Kent, a
£l2 oounty qualification, the Government feeling that it
was desirable that mutual concession would only enable
them to make a good and efficient measure would if it was

consistent with the general feeling offer it no opposition.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MILL said if any one had on the occasion referred
to by. the Chancellor of the Exchequer charged the right
hon. gentleman with having broken faith with the house
and the country—charges which no man made, and of
which he (Mr. Mill) most explicitly acquitted him—the
right hon. gentleman would now have rebutted them. He
was well aware that the shaft used by the right hon. gen-

tleman was taken from their (the Liberal) quiver—(hear,
hear)—that it was the amendment of the member for
Pontefract ; And from the first he felt and said if it was
carried it would compel them to begin all over again.
(Hear, hear.) It had not been in his mind that the mem-
ber for Newark expressed his concurrence ; and, though
he was now aware of it, he remembered that the hon. gen-

tleman afterwards completely withdrew it by bringing in
a fresh amendment. (Hear, hear.) As the Chancellor of
the Exchequer did him (Mr. Mill) the honour to refer to
what he said, the right hon. gentleman was doubtless
aware of the reasons why he thought the third and fourth
clauses are inadmissible. (Hear, hear.) He made these
remarks to set himself right with the right hon. gentle-

man, against whom he had always endeavoured to say

nothing personally offensive.
Mr. CHILDERS said he had fully understood that the
policy of the Government as to the abolition of the com-
pound householder was the original policy of the Govern-
ment--(cheers)--and therefore thought the original provi-
sions of the measure should be consulted rather than the

suggestions of an independent member. But when he pu
his amendment on the paper he had no idea the abolition
would receive any general support, and regarded it as a
sort of forlorn hope. Thinking abolition would be at-
tended with difficulty, he thought he should not do wrong
in attempting to remove some of the difficulties. His an-
ticipations were pleasurably disappointed; and finder the
circumstances ho thought it unnmeszary to take any course
with respect to his amendment. The right hon. gentle-
man must have forgotten that he told the house he had
an original policy, and that he promised to bring down
clauses to carry it out. (Cheers.) The clause now on the
paper differs most materially from that which he (Mr.
Childers) proposed. It enables the compound householder
system to be carried on in all parishes in parliamentary
boroughs; and that whereas the latter took it for granted
that the first general election after the passing of the Act
would take place on the votes of all householders, leaving
them the power afterwards to accept. the compound
system if they chose and disfranchise themselves, the pre-
sent amendment has a proviso, the effect of which will bo
that the first general election will take place on a register
which does not include the compound householders. He
trusted that proviso will not be pressed. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HODGKINSON explained that he from the first,
and still, disapproved of the amendment of the hon. mem-
ber for Pontefract.
Mr. GLADSTONE said he did not think any charge
of breach of faith could be brought against the right hon.
gentleman. He understood that the provision accepted by the
Government was the proposal of the hon. member for New-
ark without any regard to the rider, as it had been called by
the hon. member for Pomfret. He hoped that some pro
posal would be made which would relieve them from the
difficult question of the compound householder—(hear,
hear); and that, he thought, could only be effected by
separating the matter of compounding altogether from the
franchise.
The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Dodson) explained the position
of the question, and said that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer having availed himself of the indulgence of the
House to make a statement and take a retrospect, and
members alluded to by him having given explanations, it
would not be convenient to confine the discussion to the
subject-matter of the clause. The question was, " That
the words `or tenement' stand part of the clause."
Mr. AYRTON thought the words "land or tenement "
are not sufficiently definite. He had proposed to negative
them, intending to withd:-aw the amendment of which he
had given notice the other night, and to substitute " a
house, with or without land." No one desires to promote
the manufacture of voters for dependent persons by the
manipulation of land. The only ground for objection
raised the other night was that in some cases farms in one
county had a portion of the land attached to them situated
in an adjoining county. Ile did not believe this to be the
case with regard to small farms generally —(Oh oh)
though there may be a few cas,s of this sort, and more
cases of large holdings on the boundaries of two adjoin-
ing counties. But we are to frame a definition
of the franchise to meet such exceptional cases,
while by so doing we shall leaVe an opening for the
wholesale manufacture of votes? (Hear, hear.) He thought
that the opposition to the words "dwelling house" arose
from the misapprehension that some amount of residence
was proposed as a part of the quelification. That was not
intended, and it is hoped to get rid of the difficulty by the
present language, which is to the effect that there shall be
a house, or building, or appurtenances, whatever they may
be, on the land. He proposed to withdraw the amend-
ment which he formerly suggested, and to negative the
amendment of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. G. Hardy),
in order to insert other words.
The hon. gentleman's former amendment was then
withdrawn.
Sir J. TROLLOPE was surprised to hear the hon. mem-
ber for the Tower Hamlets (Mr. Ayrton) propose disfran-
chisement instead of enfranchisement. (Hear, hear.) He
will by his amendment not only disfranchise voters situated
on the borders of counties, as already stated, but a larger
class of very respectable dwellers in towns who occupy
small plots of land beyond the borough boundaries. (Hear,
hear.) These men are as independent as any other class
of voters. Many years ago a gentleman in his own county
(Lincolnshire), a relative of and bearing the same name
as the right hon. member for Pontefract (Ur. Childers),
cut a large farm up into these small plots of land, and let
them to the inhabitants of the town in the neighbourhood
of which they were situated. This gentleman was a
Liberal, and came down to oppose his (Sir J. Trollope's)
election, but he did not find that the renters of these plots
of land voted in accordance with his principles. They
were men of intelligence and education—(laughter)—and
therefore nine out of ten voted for him (Sir J. Trollope).
(Loud laughter.)
Mr. R. GURNEY said, in his experience as a revising
barrister, he could not remember a case in which votes
were manufactured in the way which the hon. member
for the Tower Hamlets suggests. That is not the mode
in which votes were manufactured. If a landlord wishes
to manufacture votes he does so by the creation of life rent
charges, and other persons do this by the creation of forty
shilling freeholds. (Rear, hear.)
Mr. G. Hardy's amendment was then put, and the house
divided:—
For the amendment ...
Against ... ... ... ...
Majority for the amendment ...
(Laughter).
The words of the amendment were accordingly added to
the clause.
Sir E. COLEBROOKE moved the addition of the words
"with a house" after " lands or teLements."
The committee divided on the question, that the pro-
posed words be inserted. The numbers were-
-254
Flues ••• ••• ... 264

.:. ... ... 255
... ... 254

Majority ...
The amendment was, therefore, lost, and the announce.
ment was received with cheers from the Ministerial side
Mr. LOCKE KING moved to substitute £lO for £l5
as the limit of the franchise in counties. He urged that
the principle of reduction in counties having been agreed
to, they had simply to determine on the figure ; and that
looking to the democratic change in the character of the
borough franchise, it was impossible to propose a less
liberal limit than that which was offered by the Chancellor
of the Exchequer in the bill of 1859. In that measure it
was proposed to fix the county franchise at £10; it was
a constitutional figure, and if now adopted would prevent
renewed agitation. In proof of the necessity for such a
reduction, the hon. gentleman mentioned that although
the county population was eleven millions as against nine
millions in the boroughs, the number of electors in both
was nearly the same.
Sir T. LLOYD had no fear of the consequences of pass-
ing the bill, for the influence of country gentlemen did not
depend upon the franchise, but upon the identity of inte-
rest between them and the electors. The Government
measure was a large and liberal measure, but it was not
the measure of a party so much as of the bowie. If it were
the bill of a party he would not have so much confidence
in it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LIDDELL trusted that after the large and liberal
concession which had been already made, the house would
hesitate to deprive property of its legitimate influence by
accepting the proposal for reducing the county franchise
to £lO.

. -10

Mr. BRIGHT said the hon. member who spoke last
took up some of the phrases which he thought the house
had got rid of. The Chancellor of the Exchequer spoke
last year of the representation of interests, but the House
had passed all that a good way. (A laugh.) They must
all admit that the reduction of the county franchise from
£5O to £l5, or £l2, or £lO was a large 1-, duction ; but no
one need be frightened at that, because they had seen such
a wonderful change with regard to th • boroughs that it
was quite impossible for any member t get up and alarm