The Sun.
London, England, 1867-02-02 00:00:00

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by the Government of the investment in the Pot
Office Savings Banks.
\h. GUILE the ftuid:; of the Amalgamated
Engineers amounted to £l-10,000, and they were
scattered in various parts of the country.
In reply to Mr. Walpole, Mr. GUILE said that
the rules were pretty nearly alike in all cases.
Mr. Ili:Gum said those of the Bradford Boiler-
makers were rather stronger.
Mr. ALLAN said the rules on which Sir Alexander
Cockburn gave his opinion were quite as strong, if
not stronger than those of the boilermakers, yet he
said distinctly that they were not illegal, but per-
fectly sound according to law.

Mr. WALPOLE then read the judgment of the
Lord Chief Justice, to the effect that he thought
the society could not be brought within the Friendly
Societies' Act, first, because the purposes for which
the trades' unions were organised were not analogous
to those of benefit societies, and because its rules,
though not criminal, yet, acting as a restraint on
trade, they were by the law of the land illegal. He
also read the opinion of Sir Alexander Cockburn,
which was to the effect that it was legal for men to
combine to protect themselves and to persuade others
to act with them, provided no violence were done to
person or property ; that all threats, intimidation,
and molestation were avoided, and that the rules
were not objectionable in point of law, though they
might have been prepared with greater accuracy.
The hon. gentleman then asked the; deputation to
point out what they specifically asked him todo.
Mr. GUILE said the society which he represented
instructed him to ask the Government to take their
rules and put them into the hands of the law advisers
of the Crown for examination. If they were of opi-
nion that they were not legal, he vv as requested to
ask the Government to provide such au act as would
place them within range of the law for all practical
purposes. The speaker mentioned a case in which
an agent of his society had £B3 belonging to it, but
which, after the recent decision, they could not claim.
Ile also furnished a number of statistics to show
that the object of the societies was more for bene-
volence than the advancement of trades' unions. LI
eight years the society to which he belonged had
expended on men out of work, but not through the
operations of strikes, on the sick and the disabled,
ou the aged and on funerals, no less than Xi 38,303,
whilst in the same period the total amount paid for
strikes was £1,877. This was at the rate of ss. 6d.
per member to support strikes or disputes, while for
benevolent purposes there had been paid
£2l ss. Cqd. per member.
Mr. IVALroLE said there was no doubt that
would be perfectly legal. lie did not know really
how far the facts in the case, as decided by the
Court of Queen's Bench, were or were not identical
for the purpose of the law with the ease as regarded
the deputation. He thought it so important a
matter that the best thing the deputation could do
was to put into writing in the shape of a memorial
to be presented at that office the exact thing they
wanted him to do. That would enable him to
conside
ar,asiltd oo , how far ee
hssatrye to consult with his col-
leagues y could fall in with the
swigestions made to the Government. Ile saw a
difficulty about consulting the law officers merely
on the application of one society, for he should, if
granting the facility in one case, have to afford it
in others.

Mr. lILTGIIES said that the case of the societies
was that they had been led into this present scrape
by previous Governments ; they had dropped their
old system of protection by checking their officials,
and they had been led to rely upon the protection
of the Friendly Societies Act. Now their funds
were scattered all over England, and their affairs
were exceedingly critical, because if the officers
turned out rascals they had no power to recover a
penny.

Mr. WIT Pni.E Raid the matter really depended
on the ulterior question whether the societies
were legal or not according to the judgment of the
Court of Queen's Bench. The law officers could
not decide such a question. Nothing but the Court
could decide whether the rules were contrary to
law or not within the meaning of the decision of the
Court. The law officers of the Crown could not
give them any valuable opinion except as to what
the decision of the Court of Queen's Bench would
be.

Mr. APPLEGARTII said the important question
was—were trades unions simple, or were they not
to be outside the pale of the law ? They had been
of opinion that it was quite lawful for working men
to combine for the protection of their interests,
provided they did not bring themselves into collision
with the law that provided against intimidation,
&c. He would admit that, if in any part of the
country work was plentiful, men underpaid, and
employers refused to raise their wages, they would
draw the men from their-employers, and pay them
15s. a week as strike pay; but they set their faces
against all kinds of intimidation ; and as for strikes,
they would not say they dreaded them, but they did
all they could to oppose them, set their faces against
them, and endeavoured to substitute for them a
system of arbitration. He thought the suggestion
made to them by the hon. gentleman was a very
good one, but he should wish that, after they had
put in writing what they desired, there should be
some sort of inquiry to let the Government see
what trades unions were. No doubt they did many
sad and serious things, but they were not so bad as
they were painted. Such an inquiry was necessary
before any legislation was attempted. They required
some specific law for their protection ; for even now
at Bradford and Hull they had cases of agents
from whom they could not obtain large sums of
money on account of the decision in the Court of
Queen's Bench. The question was, what wore
they to do ? Were they to be placed at the mercy
of unscrupulous men, when the Government had
led them to believe they had protection ? A favour-
able solution of the difficulty would lead to the
purging of their rules if on impartial inquiry any-
thingwith thisobjectionableexception, could
that be
they could no
strike wages, for if they were abolished the unions
would go. He did not think they could give up the
foundin them;t abolishbut
union even for a bill.

(LL)I1 TED).

Mr. WALPOLE said two distinct propositions had
been laid before him. One was to deal with this
particular case by some legislation immediately, and
that he understood the deputation were prepared
to lay a memorial before him as to the exact points
on which they wished legislation. Secondly, with
reference to importance of a full investigation into
the working of these societies all he could say now
was, and he believed Mr. Hughes would bear him
out, that they would in a very few days see that he
was not in the least unfriendly to such an object as
that.Tle
deputation then thanked the hon. gentleman
and withdrew.

STREET-NAMING IN BELortAvu.---The Metropo-
litan Board of Works has ordered the following alterations
to be made in the names of public thoroughfares in Bel-
gravia :—Tho name of Belgravo-street South to be abolished,
and the whole line of thoroughfare to be called Lower
Bolgrave-street ; the name of Ranelagh-street to be abo-
lished, and the street incorporated with Ebury-street ; the
names of Grosvenor-street West and Hobart-place to be
abolished, and the whole line of thoroughfare to be called
Lower Grosvenor-place. The five houses called Belgrave
Mansions to be incorporated with Grosvenor-gardens.
UNIVERSITY BOAT' RACE.—The official challenge
from the Cambridge University Boat Club has not yet been
forwarded to Oxford, but a meeting of the officers is to be
called in a few days by Mr. W. R. Griffiths, the captain,
when the matter will bo determined, and there is every
reason to believe will ra3ult iu the usual form being gone
through. Mr. Griffiths; steered the following eight down
the river on Thursd:ty :--Anderson, Trinity; Bromby,
Christ's; Still, Caius; Iton. Gordon, Trinity ; Kemp, Tri-
nity ; Nadon, Pembroke ; Collard, Lady Margaret; Pinck-
ney, Trinity. W. 11. Cltiffiths, coxswain.
There were nearly 4,000,000 pounds of wool
gathered in Vermont; last year.

NEWSPAPER
STATE OF TRADE 0"4:
doe
MANC STER, Feb. I.—For cloth an of
trade yarns the market has been quiet.
ping yarns the market opened rather quietly, but
later in the day there was considerably more busi-
ness done, at a shade in price under the rates spin-
ners were asking. Where spinners have been dis-
posed to meet buyers pretty freely at a little under
yesterday's quotations they have in some instances
done a considerable amount of business, and this
branch of the market closes more cheerfully than
for some days past. home-trade yarns have been
very quiet, and the recent slight improvement in
these goods has been entirely lost. The only busi-
ness done has had to be effected at the rates of this
day week. In cloth sellers report the market very
flat to-day, and say very little business has been
done. The buyers who were operating lately ap-
pear to have satisfied most of their present require-
ments, and they manifest little or no disposition to
go further at present, except at lower prices. These
have been offered to some extent, but have not
found general acceptance, consequently the busi-
ness of the day has been small. The recent busi-
ness done in some descriptions of goods having
placed manufacturers under contract, they are
naturally less easy to deal with on that account.
Heavy goods, such as Bolton counterpanes, have
been active for export to America, but the anticipa-
tion of a reduction of from 45 to 20 per cent. in the
tariff had the effect of checking operations, and the
business both for export and home consumption is
flatter, perhaps, than it has been known to be for
the last six years.
BARNSLEY, lst.—ln addition to the Northfield,
Midland, Milton, Elsecar, and Parkgate works, the
proprietors of the Cyclops and Atlas works have
given their employes notice of a reduction to the same-
extent as at the other works-10 per cent. A simi-
lar reduction was made at these works a month or
two ago, against which the men struck work, but
which they afterwards accepted. For railway ma-
terial the demand continues brisk, more particularly
in the heavier branches. Very little pig iron is being
manufactured, as the requirements of the trade are
very small, and orders are only given to meet imme-
diate wants. The steel trade is still very brisk, both
for the plain and manufactured article. The coal
trade is without alteration, and now that the canal
traffic has been fully resumed a good export trade is
being done at Hull, Goole, and Grimsby. A heavy
tonnage of the best house coal and those descrip-
tions known as Barnsley and Silkstone is being sent
to London and the south.

- -
2. 1Z
kV
S

LEEDS, lst.—The following is the trade report of
the Leeds Chamber of Commerce for the month of
January :—" In the woollen warehouses business has
been dull throughout the mouth, with a slight ten-
dency to improvement towards the close. The ship-
ping houses have also, with few exceptions, been
unusually quiet. •The home trade has no doubt been
affected by the weather, which has caused the spring
trade to be rather later in commencing. The manufac-
turers have been so far very fairly employed, but un-
less there is an improvementin the dernandmerchants
will be slow in repeating their orders. The cap trade
partakes of the general dulness. The aem and for colo-
nial wools has been languid, and with the present
prospect of the wool market manufacturers have been
unwilling to increase their stocks of wool. Prices
remain about.the same. The English wool market
has been less active. There has not been much done
in flaxes, and the trade is dull. Better classes are
very scarce, and maintain their price. Lower classes
are not much inquired for, and though stocks are
low yet they are not firm in price. Fine tows are
in demand at full rates. Common sorts are plenti-
ful and in little demand, and prices are unsteady.
limps are tending downwards. The yarn trade is
dull and orders scarce—more for low than for fine
numbers. Prices are nearly unchanged, but rather
in favour of the buyer. Threads are without change.
The iron trade has been unusually dull during the
month, but has improved during the last week. The
iron girders for the Apperley viaduct, weighing 500
tons, have been made in this neighbourhood, and
the iron rolled for them by a house in the town in
the unprecedentedly short time of three weeks. The
machine makers are nearly all doing less. The en-
gineer tool makers are also very dull. The demand
for cut nails is quiet. There has been a quiet month
for rapeseed and linseed, but prices have been well
maintained, and merchants are notdisposed to accept
lower rates. Rape oil has been in moderate con-
sumptive demand. Linseed oil, as usual at this sea-
son of the year, is flat, at unremunerative prices.
Cakes are in brisk demand, and prices very firm.
Olive oils have been more inquired for, and have
advanced £2 to £3 per ton. Stocks are small, and
held for higher rates. The past has been a very
dull month for all descriptions of leather. There
is no material change to report in prices. The tan-
ners are very dull. The shoe trade continues to be
very indifferent both for home trade and for ship-
ping. There is a better demand for both sanitary
tubes and bricks, and makers are busier. There has
only been a limited demand for paper. Material
continues plentiful at about former prices. The
tobacco trade is without change. The supply of
cattle has been large, and prices have been lower.
Number shown (five markets), beasts ,1,962 ; sheep,
14,250. Corn.—There has been a fair supply of
wheat, but prices have advanced Is. per quarter.
There has been a good demand for barley, which
has advanced about Is. Oats and beans without
change."

THE UNIVERSAL TOURIST COMPANY

TIIE DELEGATES OF THE TRADE SOCIETIES.

A meeting took place on Wednesday evening at
the Terminus Hotel, London-bridge, of the Direc-
tom' Universal Tourist Company (Limited), to lay
before the delegates of trades societies and working
men plans intended to offer special facilities to those
classes to visit the Paris Exhibition.* A memorial
has been drawn up to his Imperial Majesty the
Emperor of the French, calling his attention to the
prohibitory sums which will be demanded for lodg-
ings, and tend almost wholly to exclude the work-
ing classes from the Exhibition. The directors
propose to despatch a deputation from their board,
accompanied by the representatives of the working
men, who, they are in hopes, the Emperor will
honour with an interview to further an object his
Majesty is known to have at heart, and that the
opportunity may not be lost, offered by the coming
Exhibition, of bringing together the French and
English working people. The memorial requesting
the audience of the English trade delegates has been
most graciously and favourably received by his Ma-
jesty. It was intimated that there was reason to believe
the Emperor would grant the use of certain barracks ;
and it was promised that any boon thus derived
would be freely given up to the tourists, without
benefit to the company. If, however, the lodgings
provided gratuitously by the Imperial Government
should fall short of the need, as would, in all pro-
bability, be the case, it was proposed that the ad-
vantage should be distributed over the whole body,
so that, assuming that six thousand could be lodged
in barracks without cost, and six thousand would
have to pay, the twelve thousand should be charged
a level sum. Some Questions were put and sug-
gestions offered by Mr. Mackey (bookbinder), Mr.
Brighty (wood turner), and other delegates. Re-
solutions in accordance with the views expressed
were passed by the meeting ; and twelve delegates
were elected from among those present to accom-
pany the deputation to the Emperor.
AI. A. Duboys de Lavigerie, the general manager
of the Tourist Company, has given years to mature
the plans he now proposes to bring into operation,
and the explanations he offered at the meeting were
most favourably received.

* Mr. Coffey, director of the English and French Steam-
ship Company, presided.

THE PUBLIC PRIZE TRIAL FOR SPORTING DOGS.
—The public trial of sporting dogs on game in the field,
which is under distinguished patronage, and excities con-
siderable interest amongst sportsmen, has been deferred in
consequence of the wild state of partridges and grouse.
Birds are yet paired and in largo covies, but as soon as
partridges "couple off," and will lie to pointers and setters,
the trials will come off. Some well-stocked grouse moors
and partridge manors have been secured in Staffordshire,
and the trials will probably take place next month.