The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-09 00:00:00

with the company only in its second character, and took
font it the whole of its governing powers, and vested
them in the Crown ; but the bill left untouched all its
rights aato stock, dividends, redemption, and the secu-
rity fund. lnasonach as the rights as to stock must be
protected, and as the dividends mast be paid by some
particular body, the bill preserved the company in that
which was strictly and legitimately its functions in refe-
rence tq those matters, and money would be placed in
its hands for the payment of the dividends.
Mr. ROEBUCK said, that they now-had a specimen
of the joint work of the noble lord (Lord Stanley) and of
that house in the matter of legislation for India, and he
thought it but fair to himself to record his opinion of
this great effort in legislation. lie believed, with the
hon. and learned member for Devonport, that a greater
opportenity of distinction was never offered to any man
than that which was offered to the noble load ; but the
noble lord, united with that house, had produced a
scheme of government which appeared to be wholly in-
efficacious, and which would prove by experience to be
totally .inefficient. In a very few years they we-cU be
called on to patch up
this rickety production of the
noble lord's. It happened that England had a task im-
posed on it with respect to India, such as no country
ever had imposed oa it before. At a distance of many
thousands of miles a very small body of enlightened
men were called on to frame a government for a people
wholly different from themselves in religion, manners,
customs, and thought, and if that house were tasked to
furnish forth a good instrument of legislation, it was on
the present occasion. And what had they done ? The
great objection to the existing Government was its
double character, which introduced delay and every
possible mischief into the Government of India. They
had now done away with the existing Government, but
what bad they adopted in its stead ? In a few words he
would compare the Government framed by the present
bill with the existing Government of India. The first
part of the existing Government was the President of
the Board of Control, who, by Mr. Pitt's bill, was really
the paramount authority in the Government of India.
The Prelident of the Board of Control had the power of
doing anything and everything, with the subsequent
sanction of that house. What had they done with re-
spect to that functionary ? They had changed his name
and called him Secretary of State for India, and that
was Unit only change with respect to him. What had
they done with respect to the council that surrounded
him ? They had in place of the Directors of the East
India Company created a council. Now, the directors
were, to a certain degree, responsible. They were chosen
by a body, not weli selected, but still a popular body.
What had the house done with respect to them ? Toey
bad put in their place a body called the Council for
India, eight of the members of which were to be chosen
by the Minister, the other seven were to choose them-
selves, and they were all to be chosen for life ; so that
in place of the directors now responsible to the proprie-
tors of the East India Company, they had a body of
persons responsible to nobody. That was the great alte-
retion which the skill of the noble lord, ccupled with
'the labours of that house, had produced in the way of
the Government of India, and he defied the ingenuity of
man to propose a plan for the government of a distant
province worse than that. (A. laugh.) It had not one
quality which a Government ought to have. With re-
spect to the councillors the choice was circumscribed,
and instead of looking round to find the cleverest men
in the community the selecting parties were bound to
choose the best they could out of a small number. He
believed the very fact of being in In lia 10 years unfitted
men to govern India. That might appear a paradox, but
it was not one ; for men could learn in England far mere
of India than they could by merely travelling in India.
The historian of British India, Mr. Mill, and that most
remarkable man now in the the India-house, Mr. John
Mill, never were in India. It might be that those two
persons might be selected, but it would be very remark-
able it the Government of this country selected the two
best men for the Government of India. (A. laugh.) The
house bad created a machinery that wood not work, and
the clause that enabled the Secretary of State to do away
entirely with the Council for India was the sole clause
in the bill which would enable it to work. He believed
the council would be a sturnblingblock in their way, and
that five years would not. pass aver the head of the noble
lord opposite (Lord Stanley) without a necessity arising
for the amendment of this bill, and he hoped the noble
lord would live for those five years—(cheering)—to ex-
perience the truth of his prophecy, and to amend a mea-
sure upon the preparation of which he had bestowed so
much trouble and attention. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—I do not join in the maledic-
tion which has been launched against this bill by my
hon. and learned friend the member for Sheffield. (A.
laugh.) There aro some redeemine features in the bill
to whiCh the hon. and learned gentleman has not re•
ferred. My hon. and learned friend has truly said that
under the last of Pitt's Bills the President of the Board
of Control became, in fact, the Governor of India ; but
the original intention was that the Board of Control, as
its name implies, should control the directors and pro-
prietors of the East India Company, who it was supposed
—and upon very just grounds—were at that time in-
clined to carry on aggressive wars in India, with little
regard to justice or true policy. The Beard of Control,
however, became in fact the supreme Government of
India. Now we take away that mask, and give to a
Secretary of State for India the power of directing and
controlling the affairs of that portion of the empire.
I say, then, that if we have merely removed what was
a delusion we have made an advance by exchanging
the Government of the Bard of Control for that
of a Secretary of State. My honourable and learned
friend has said that the directors were chosen by a
body of proprietors, to whom they were responsible ;
and, undoubtedly, the directors were appointed by
the proprietors, after a canvas which was not very
seemly, and by means which would be very di'tasteful
to men of high character and honour. I helieve, how-
ever, that after the directors were once chosen nobody
ever heard of their being called to account by the pro-
prietors on the ground that their constituenth were die-
oath fled with the course they had pursued. In the place
of the Court of Directors we are now to have a Council
eompo.ed of men well acquainted with Indian affairs,
who will afford information to the Secretary of State
with reference to any questions upon which he may re-
quire assistance or advice. I think this is a great im-
provement in the government of India. I can imagine
that a Secretary of State might ba so unwise as to trans•
fer to the members of the council mere routine duties,
without asking their advice upon points of importance ;
but I should conceive that any Secretary of State who
acted in such a manner would ill discharge his duties. I
think the Secretary State may derive most valuable
seisietance from the Council with regard to important
quesions f policy, and revenue, the administration of
justice a'.d war. The Council ought, in my opinion,
to be independent, and my belief is that that object will
be effected by appointing the members during good be-
haviour. With regard to the numbers of the Council,
their exolusion from seats in this house, and the main-
tenance of the Secret Committee, I differ from the views
which are embodied in the bll ; and I have no doubt
that with respect to these and other questions we shall,
before the lapse of five years, or of three years, or even,
perhaps, of two years, have the Secretary of State com-
ing down to this house and in,orrning us that there are
poi t one of the measure which leave t ocanswere.l the it.-
tentionti of its framers, and which require alteration.
There are other questions which are not touched by the
bill, and which if they do not require legislatiou on
the part of this house will undoubtedly require the
earnest attention of the Government. By this measure
we merely regulate the borne Government of lodic, but
the great questions of the terrace of land, of re-
veller, '•f the government of the army, of the services of
the army, and of the administration of justice, will re-
quire careful and anxious attention, and I think that in
the course of a year er two the Secretary of State and
the Council will probably be prepared to introduce great
measures of reform with reference to these subjects, el-
though it may not be necessary to submit them to this
house.. Hon. gentlemen are aware of the settlement of
the land question in India which was effected by Lord
Cornwallis, and which was at the time, and long after-
wards, regarded as a measure of great wisdom and pru-
dence. Lord Grenville declared in Parliament that he
regarded that settlement as one of the most important
and beneficial measures that could have been adopted
by the moot benevolent Government. Some time after-
wards, however, public 'opinion veered round, strong
opposition was manifested to the arrangement, and
the Government sought to substitute everywhere, but
especially in the Presidency of Bengal, a system which
would destroy the power of the Zemindare, and establish
an immediate connexion between the Government and
the peasantry. Another change of opinion has taken
place, and many persons now state that observation
and experience have convinced them that unless
there are considerable landowners between the
rulers' and the people it will be impo sible to se-
cure the welfare of the population, and to provide for
their good government. (Hear.) These circumstances
Ahoy that questions of this nature require the most care-
ful consideration. The mode in which the revenue is at
present collected in India is most unsatisfactory, for in
some districts-there is an excessive amount of laud-tax,
in others of the salt-tax, and in others of the opium-tax.
These are questions which require minute and careful
investigation ; but we have not attempted to deal with
them in this bid. I think we have acted judiciously in
abstaining from any such attempt, for they are subjects
which require much closer examination than we could
devote to them ; but, after establishing a Counc I in
which such questions can be considered, and enabling
the Minister of the Crown to obtain information, and ad-
VIVO from persons of Indian experience, we may expect
a volution of these difficult questions. In referring to
this subject I cannot abstain from adverting to the re-
nnarleabie speech which was made the other evening by
the honourable member for Birmingham (Mr. Bright).
and which did not at the time attract much obser-
vation. I think the speech of that honourable gen-
tleman was one of the most remarkable aver de-
livered in this house. Ido not concur in some of
the opinions which he expressed. I do not agree with
bins that it will be possible—at least for a long time to
important '
come, perbaps-never—to abolish the office of
Governor-Genera! of India, but I do agree with him that
we oirght to endeavour to give large powers to the Go-
vernor
Go-
vernors of the different Presidencies in Incite, and that
it is only by entrusting great powers to them, and en-
abling thorn to govern their Presidencies with vigour
and tffiniency, that wo are likely to improve the govern.
anent of India. I agree, generally, in the principles laid
down by the hoe. gentleman, although they may not bt
immediately appbcaela I think they are the trot
principles upon yds ca the government of India ought
in future to be cemincted. Olean hear.) Whether oat
decisions may have been wise or nut, we have, at all
mots,. gone through this bill whh an absence of part)
spirit which, I believe, echoed on the part of the house.
a desire to come to a right determination upon the
various insportaet questions which have been brought
under our coeeideration—(hear, beery--and I am our:
that, ltmtvfng fraheod the bition cnoh u. epirit, it will
BlOst satiefactery LI the ht,:qt:e if its operation
4ho
old

prove beneficial to the people of India, and honourable
to the Parliament of this country. (Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I can-
not refrain from congratulating the house upon having,
by the combined exertions of hon. gentlemen on both
sides, brought this bill to its present stage, and from
-offering them, on the part of her Majesty's Government,
our sincere thanks for the candour and patience with
which they have assisted us in the progress of the mea-
sure. There is, believe, no one in this house who re-
cognises or appreciates more completely thad I do the
necessity and importance of party organisation. Indeed,
I do not know how a popular assembly so numerous as
the existing House of Commons could be defended from
the iofluence of the Crown without an organisation of
that nature. There are, however, occasions on which
there is an universal agreement that that political
discipline may most advantageously be modified or sus-
pended, and I cannot but feel that when we are called
upon to consider a question relating to the better govern-
ment of India—especially under the existing circum-
stances of that country—the occasion is one on which
we should combine our common efforts for the common
good. (Cheers.) I think this measure is a very great im-
provement upon the state of affairs it is intended to
supersede, and, although it pretends to be no more than
an effort to institute in this country a vigorous home
government for India, it is impossible not to believe that
it will have a very beneficial effect on the government
of India in India itself. That is the point to which the
feeliega of all England must now be directed. Having,
by the cordial assistance of all parties in the House of
Commons, succeeded in framing a measure which I trust
will institute a vigorous government of India in Dig-
land, let us now hope that by the wisdom of our states.
men, by the skill of our commanders, and the bravery
of our troops, we may soon pat an end to the great re-
bellion which has so long raged in that important part
of her Majesty's dominions, and that we may be able to
re-establish her empire in that part of the world on these
principles of truth and justice without which no empire
in this age ca❑ be established or maintained. (Cheers.)
The bill was then read a third time and passed amid
considerable cheering.
GOVERNMENT OF NEW CALEDONIA BILL.
On the order of the day fOr the second reading of this
bill,

Sir E. B. LYTTON said—The bill which I ask the
house to sanction is necessary to the maintenance of
law and the preservation of life in the district in which
it proposes to establish a Government, and it rea-
lises at an earlier period than was anticipated an
object which has already entered into the colonial
policy of this country. The house is aware that in
1849 the Crown granted to the Hudson's Bay Com-
pany the soil of Vancouver's Island, on the condition of
establishing a colony there, disposing of the laud to emi-
grants, and defraying its expenses, the Crown to resume
the land on the expiration of the grant of exclusive trade
in 1859. But the company enjoy in Vancouver's Island
no rights of government or of judicature. The govern.
ment is administered by a Governor appointed by the
Crown, with a Legislative Council, and a House of Re-
presentatives chosen by the people. The judicature is
administered by Courts instituted by the Crown, under
the special authority of an Act of Parliament, " to pro-
vide for the administration of justice in Vancouver's
Island." Next year it is the intention of the Crown to
resume the soil, and the whole public connection of the
company with the island will cease. Indeed, my right
hon, friend the member for Coventry (Mr. Ellice), in his
able evidence before the committee on the Hudson's Bay
Company, says, "The sooner the public re-enter into
possession, and the sooner they form establishments
worthy of the island, and worthy of the country, the
better." My right boo, friend proceeds to say, " that
this island is a kind of England attached to the continent
of America ; that it should be the principal station of
our naval force in the Pacific ; that it is the only good
harbour to the northward of San Francisco, as far
north as Sitka, the Russian settlement; that you have
in Vancouver's Island the best harbour, fine timber in
every situation, and coal enough for your whole navy ;
that the climate is wholesome, very like that of Eng-
land ; the coasts abound with fish of every description ;
in short, there is every advantage in the Island of Van-
couver to make it one of the first colonies and best
settlements of England." (Hear, hear.) But when my
right hon. friend was asked by the committee if he
thought it desirable to attempt also at once to colonise the
land on the adjacent coast be answered "No, we should
have enough to do in colonising the island." He will not
say that now. He knows that new circumstances have
arisen which call upon us to place, as soon as possible,
the adjacent territory under the safeguard of an esta-
blished Government, such as this Bill would provide.
And those circumistances are the discovery of goldfields,
the belief that those goldfields will be eminently produc-
tive, the number of persons of foreign nations and un-
known character already impelled to the place by that
belief. I •ieeed say no more to show the imperative
necessity of establishing a Government -wherever the
bope of gold, to be had for digging, attracts all adven-
turers and excites all passions. (Hear, hear.) At this
moment there is no imperial Government at all in the
place, for the Governor of Vancouver's owns no com-
mission on the mainland. Thus, the discovery of gold
compels us to do at once what otherwise we should
very soon have done—erect into a colony a district that
appears, in great part, eminently suited for civilised
habitation and culture. (Hear, bear.) Before I pro-
ceed further it may be interesting to the House to give
a sketch of the little that is known to us through official
sources of the territory in which these new goldfields
have been discovered. The territory lies between the
Rocky Mountains and the Pacific ; it is bounded on the
south by the American frontier line, 49 deg. of latitude,
and may be censidered to extend to toe sources of
Frazer River, in latitude 55 deg. It is, therefore, about
420 miles long in a straight line, its average breadth
about 250 to 300 miles. Taken from corner to corner
its greatest length would he, however, 805 miles, and
its greatest breadth 400 miles. Mr. Arrowsinith corn.
pa tea it s area of square miles, including Queen Charlotte's
Island, at somewhat more than 200,000 miles. Of its
two gold-bearing rivers, one, the Frazer, rises in the
northern boundary, and flowing south fells into the sea at
the south-western extremity of the territory, oppo'ite the
southern end of Vancouver's Island, and within a few miles
of the American boundary ; the other, the Thompson
River, which rises in the Rocky Mountains, and fl, wing
westward joins the Frazer about 150 miles from the coast.
It is on these two rivers, and chiefly at their confluence,
that the gold discoveries have been made. Lion. gentle-
men who look at the map may imagine this new colony
at an immeasurable distance from England ; but we have
already received overtures from no less eminent a person
than Mr. Cunard for a line of postal steam-nest:ls for
letters, goods, and passengers, by which it is calculated
that a passenger starting from Liverpool may reach this
colony in about 35 days by way of New York and
Panama. With regard to the soil, there is said to be
some tolerable land on the lower part of Frazer &tor.
But the Thompson'e River district is described as one of
the finest ceuutries in the British doruini ins, with a cli-
mate far superior to that t f countries the same lati-
tude on the other side of the mountains. Mr. Cooper,
who gave valuable evidence before our committee on
this district, with which he is thoroughly acquainted,
recently addressed to me a letter, in a hich he state.;
that—
" Its fisheries are most valuable, its timber the finest in
the world for marine purposes; it abounds with bitumin-
ous coal well fitted fur the generation of steam ; from
Thompson':; River and Colville districts to the Rocky.
Mountains, and from the 49th parallel some 350 miles
north, a.more beautiful country does not exist. It is in
every way suitable for colonisation."
(Hear, hear.) Therefore, apart from the gold-fields, this
country affords every promise of a flourishing and im-
portant colony. (Hear.) In Charlotte's Island, which
we include in this new colony, geld was discovered in
1850, but only in small quantities. Here I may perhaps
correct a popular misconception. In Vancouver's Island
itself no gold has been yet discovered. The discovery
of gold on the mainland was first reported to the Colti•
nial-uffice by a despatch from the Governor of Van-
couver's Island, dated April 16, 1856. The Governor
had received a report from a clerk in the service of the
Hudson's Bay Company at Fort Colville, on the Upper
Columbia River, Further reports followed in
October, 1856, testifying eo the importance of the dis-
covery. From experiments made in the tributaries of
Frazer River there was reason to believe that the gold
region was extensive ; the similarity in the geolegical
formation of the mountains in the territory to those of
California induced the Governor to believe that these
would prove equally auriferous. Subsequent accounts,
in 1857, varied as to the quantity of gold obtained, but
confirmed generally the opinion of the richness of the
mines, especially above the confluence of the Frazer and
Thompson Rivers. The Governor writes on July 15,
that gold was being discovered on the right bank of the
Columbia, and the tableland between that river and
Frazsr's. On Dec. 29 he ascribed the small quantity
found to the want of skiil and tools on the part of the
natives, who opposed any white men digging. The In-
dians were especially hostile to the Americans, and op-
posed their entrance into the country. Great excitement
now prevailed in Oregon and Washington Territory. An
influx of adventurers might be expected in the spribg, in
which case collisions between the whites and the natives
might be expected to occur. As far back as the first
discovery in April, 1856, the Governor had suggested
the system of granting digging licences. The right hon.
gentleman the member for Taunton, then Secretary of
State for the Colonies, pointed °Olt, in reply (Aug. 4),
that it would be abortive to attempt to raise a revenue
from licences to dig for gold in that region iu the ab-
sence of effective machinery of Government, and left to
the Governor's discretion the means of preserving order.
In the exercise of that discretion be issued a proclama-
tion (December 28, 1857) declaring the rights of the
Crown to the gold in Thompson's and Frazer% Rivers ;
establishing licence fees of 10s., which, on Jan. 1, 1858,
be raised to 20e. ; and prohibiting persons from digging
without authority from the Colonial Government. But
this proclamation has virtually proved a dead letter,
for, in point of fact, the Government had no legal
power to iSSU3 the proclamation, or cause it to be re-
spected, heahnaving no commission as Governor on the
indeed, his sole power has been the
moral power of hie energy, talents, and extramdinary
influence over the natives. Toe manner in which lie has
°reserved peace is higNy to his honour. (Hear.) In a
l-tter from the Governor to the Hudson's Bay Company,
March 22, 1858, he trusts that H. M,'s Government would
:eke measures to prevent crimes and prevent lifeand pro-
perty, or there would be ere long a long array of diffi-
eultiee to settle. " A large number of Americans had
-ntered the territory, others were preparing to follow.
On the Bth of May be State. to the Colonial-office that
450 passengers, chiefly gold miners, had come from San
Francisco ; that they all appeared well provided with
tools ; there seemed to be no want of capital or
iz.ttlligeuce among them ; that about 60 were British