The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-18 00:00:00

1858.

man the member for Northampton. (" Hear" and a laugh.)
Does he recollect the rebuke once given by the late Duke
of Wellington to au official who told him of sortie public
business being mentioned in a private letter :—" What,
sir, do you think we tolerate private letters relating to
official business I" (Hear.) I say every man of sense in this
country will treat the excuse given with reference to this
letter with seen], because no one can believe that the right
hon. member for Northampton withheld the document
on the advice of a statesman more judicious, more experi-
enced, more clever, I may be permitted to say, than him-
self, without an object. (Hear.) And I go fterther, and say
that no one is at liberty to assume that Lord Ellenborough
would not have given to that document all the weight that
he thought it deserved. (Hear.) In what position did the
noble lord stand ? He received a proclamation which he
believed required speedy notice at his hand, and he wrote
in the strong, decided, and honest conviction of his
heart a desnatch which was expressed substantially in the
terms which ho had employed in a previous despatch in
the month of March. (Hear.) That despatch declared
that Oude was a conquered country, that the people were
not to be dealt with as rebels, and that life and property
were to be protected. (Hear, hear.) I appeal to the house
whether this Minister is to be condemned when he has
written in a despatch in the month of May the same opi-
nions and declarations respecting the protection of pro-
perty in India which he had previously written in the
month of March? (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for
Aberdeen and some others said it was all very well to speak
against the proclamation, but this is the way things are
done in the East confiscation is always the mode of pro-
ceeding. (Hear.) I was electrified when I heard that
statement. (Hear.) There were great conquests in India
before that of Oude, and there were large territories ceded
to the Crown, and great statesmen in India before Lord
Canning. I find from a statement put on record by Mr.
Tucker what took place during the Governor-Generalship
of
.Lord Wellesley with reference to the ceded and con-
quered provinces. He says,
" The proprietary rights or zemindars, talookdars, and
other descriptions of landholders possessing a right of pro-
perty in the lands composing their zemindarries, talooks,
or other tenures, to be confirmed and established unler.the
authority of the British Government, in conformity to the
laws and usages of the country and to the regulations
which have been, or shall be hereafter, enacted by the
Governor-General in Council,"

That is the proclamation of Lord Wellesley, and it was
followed up by Lord Mintor. Then I have the judicious
commentary of Mr. Tucker on the subject, in these words :
" In fact, it should be our object to disturb the existing
state of things as little as possible. But a difficulty founded
upon private rights can scarcely be urged by those who
contend for the right of Government to demand ' rent'
from the whole territory. This sweeping assumption of the
right of property in the land is a virtual annihilation of
all private rights ; for I will not permit the right to per-
form a daily task work to be any right at all. We must
create property before we talk of rights; and property in
land can never be created under any system which is
founded upon the assumption of the Government being the
universal landlord."

(Hear, hear.) The statement that confiscation has been the
practice in India is disproved by facts and documents, and
by the corroborative testimony of the best men who have
written on India. (Hear.) What did Lord Dalhousie say
in his proclamation of Oude when he annexed the territories
of Oude. He enjoined all the inhabitants to " rend,r obe-
dience to the officers of the Government," and he conoluded
with the words, " protection shall be given to life and pro-
perty, and every man shall enjoy, henceforth, his just
rights without fear of molestation." (Hear.) I challenge
those who talk of confiscation to show that it has ever been
practised either in the East or in the West under any cir-
cumstances of conquest. (Hear, hear.) In every instance
the private property of the ccnquered has been respected ;
and if hon. gentlemen opposite will show me a single in-
stance in modern times of a proclamation such as that now
under our consideration I will at once give up the argu-
ment. (Hear.) Are you awaro that the highest authori-
ties upon Indian affairs have declared this proclamation to
be a dangerous document ? Are you aware that the descrip-
tion which Cal. Sleoman gives of the men whom the pro-
clamation affects is, that their estates are in general well
cultivated ; and that Mr. Tucker gives it as his opinion that
whenever an insurrection broke out they and the ryots
would be found enrolled under the same standard ? I may
perhaps mention, in corroboration of the statement of
Col. Sleernan, that an officer who lately had to ride into
Lucknow 75 miles for his life, describes the route through
which he travelled to be thickly studded with as comfort-
able homesteads as were to be found within the same dis-
tance in England. He stopped at several respectable
dwellings on his way, obtained refreshment, and was
readily informed as to the best means of saving his life.
Yet these are the men whose properties are, in accordance
with the proclamation of Lord Canning, to be confiscated
—(cheers)--and confiscated, too, without reason, and in
opposition to all law and justice. (Hear, hear.) And
it is because they have declared that it is the guilty
alone who ought to be punished, and not the innocent,
that you call upon the Houee:of Commons to censure
her Majesty's Government. (Cheers.) What has
one of the most experienced chairmen who ever presided
over the East India Company said of the talookdars and
zemindars of Oude? "You may call them middlemen,"
he observed, " but they are the gentry of the country."
It is argued that no sane man would confiscate indiscri-
minately the property of a class such as that; and the
noble lord the member for London, in adverting to the
subject, was pleased to speak of what he called the forensic
habits of my hon. and learned friend the Solicitor-General.
But I may tell the noble lord that no judge would form
his opinion of a document upon any other ground than
that which was justified by the expressions which it con-
tainer]. It is therefore idle to tell us that Lord Canning
means something entirely different from that which the
words of the proclamation imply. Her Majesty's Mini-
sters were compelled when the document came under their
notice to look for the meaning of Lord Canning in the ex-
pressions which he used. It is, however, said that the
letter of Mr. Edmonstone renders the intentions of Lord
Canning perfectly clear ; but I must beg leave to remind
hon. gentleinen opposite that the people never saw that
letter. (Cheers.) The 14th paragraph, indeed, implies
that those men against whom the proclamation is directed
may have permission to return to their homes; but that
permission is idle, because it is carefully provided that
they shall have no homes t o which to return—(loud cheers)
—inasmuch as the letter states that the privilege thus
accorded "must not be considered as a reinstatement of
them in tile possession of their lands, for the deliberate
disposal of which the Government will preserve itself un-
fettered." (Hear, hear.) The whole thing is, in fact, as
plain as a pikestaff. (Cheers and laughter.) It means
this, and nothing more—" Go ; thank God your lives have
been spared. How you are to sustain yourselves is a mat-
ter about which we give ourselves no concern." (Cheers,
and cries of " No, no.") Some hon. gentlemen seem to
dissent from that view of the proclamation, but the right
hon. gentleman the member fe r Northampton seemed dis-
posed to abide by that construction ; and, indeed, the
point is one upon which our own unaided understand.
jugs will enable us at once to arrive at a just deci-
sion. (Hear, hear.) The more thoroughly one examines
this document, the more clearly must he perceive
that it is meant to have a general application. It
is addressed to the chiefs and people of Oude, and although
the right hon. gentleman the member for Radnor says that
it does not affect the (smaller proprietors, yet I maintain
that it does not distinguish between the greater and the
lesser or village zemindariee. There are passages in the
blue-book referring in the clearest terms to the latter class,
which is described as composed of a numerous and a brave
race of men, who would be, found prepared, whenever oes
casion arose, to sot aside the plough and take up the sword.
(Hear, hear.) Well, against a class of men such as that it
is that this monstrous proclamation is fulminated—(cheers)
—mid yet it is said that, in seeking to prevent Lord Can-
ning from doing not that which is right, but that which is
clearly wrong, in their regard you impair his authority.
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman the member for
Northampton had upon a former evening alluded to Sir J.
Lawrence, and had expressed it to be his opinion that ho
(Lard Canning) must have consulted with that distin-
guished person in reference to the expediency of issuing
this proclamation. Has the right hon. gentleman, I would
ask, received any private communication showing that to
be the cage? (Cheers, and laughter.) Was Sir J. Outram
a party to the issue of the proclamation?—(hear)—or Gen.
Mansfield ? (Hear, hear) Do you imagine that those
gallant officers aro men likely to sanction a policy which
will convert a brave people into your mortal foes ?
(Cheers.) And are you, let me ask, prepared to say that
the Government is to be censured for having pronounced
a condemnation upon that policy? (Hear, hear.) Do you
think that if you do so, and that if you succeed in turning
out the Ministry which had the courage to denounce the
proclamation of Lord Canning, there is one man upon the
benches opposite who will dare to enforce the policy which
it enunciates. (Loud cheers.) That proclamation is
against the opinion of Sir J. Lawrence, whom eLord
Ohaftesbury had said to be the greatest authority existing
on this subject, and the fittest man, with one exception,
to be Prime Minister of India. Will you run counter to
this opinion ? Does the house remember the part taken
by the late Sir R. Peel in the committee on Ceylon ? A
proclamation was said to have been issued, confiscating
the property of certain persons, and declaring that unless
they delivered up the property which they weresupposed to
conceal such persons would be killed and their property
confiscated. The Government were called upon for an ex-
planation. The late Sir R. Peel recommended that a Royal
commission should be sent out to Ceylon to discover if
such a proclamation had been issued. They reported that
it had been issued. Col. Watson appealed to the noble loi d
(J. Russell) who never attempted to justify that proclama-
tion. That officer persuaded the noble lord to give him a
military inquiry, which reversed the decision of the civil
tribunal, and the plant officer thus got out of that pro-
clamation, and so escaped the punishment which would
otherwise have been indicted upon him. (Hoar.) Sir, I
now coma to the great speech iu support of the noble vis-
count (Canning) by the noble lord the member for the city
. of London. The opinion of that noble lord isal_rewaysaceivead
with the great respect to which it is entitledf
the diffimcultygrt
with
experience, and I am well aware of
humble authority
which I have to conetfenhdisienuppuetritoinr
against the weight gkmnoywledge. The noble
circumstances connected with the annexa-
tionedxepspreasteclhy
despatch into the wen
lord first asked, " How came you to endterat all in your
of Oude?''
refers to it to lead The
too ntohbel ecleonredl whoi wrote that
that, for the reasons given in
the several statements preceding, you ought not to deal
stated in the 14th patagranle,
have conquered in fair and legitimate
warfare. the people of Oude as a people who are rebels, but
as people whom you
that portion of the noble
speech is not satisfactory. But then the noble lord
lord's warfare. I submit, therefore, this
said, 4, What business have,you to cast reflections upon the
past governments of India ? ' But the noble lord forgot the
wee°, in his speech on the India Bill of the late
speech of the right hon. baronet the late Chancellor of the
EGv querelt, covereJ the East India Government with
obloquy,chereuee and accused that Government of perfidy, rapa-
city, cruelty, and spoliation, ajear, hear, and cheers.) I
do not, therefore, know why the ten,;)erate observations of
Lord Ellenborough upon a single transe:tion, and that
the annexation of Oude, is to be visited with Zuch severe
censure. (Loud cheers.) I am afraid I shall slat:ek the
noble lord, but the historian speaks truth while the
statesman sometimes suppresses it (a laugh) -- and
Mr. Mill says that when the historian considers the argu-
ment that we ought to take possession of rich provinces
because we govern them better, such an argument appears
to rest upon a basis of hypocrisy. This is the pith and
marrow of the noble lord's speech :
" Hitherto it has always been the practice for a 0-ow rn-
rnent on coming into office to accept the settlements which
have been made by former Governments, and when a con-
quest has been made, a war entered into, or an acquisition
secured to the Crown, not to look any further into the
abstract merits of the question, but to adopt that which
has been done, to-carry on the war, and to defend these
acquisitions. In this manner alone can the policy of the
otepire he carried on with safety. If one Government were
to nay--' We disapprove what was done by the East India
Company under Lord Dalhousie;' and another were to say
' We disapprove what was done with regard to Scinde ;'—
if, when Mr. Fox was in office in 1806, he had said, I
disapprove she wars of Lord Wellesley, which secured to
us Delhi and 83-,
;ngapatam,' it is evident that the empire

would be in a state of continualfluctuation, and you would
have no policy lasting from year to year."
Sir, I say that is not a usual argument. (Hear.) I sal'
next that it is not, historically speaking, the course which
has been pursued by the greatest statesmen of this country—
that it is opposed to the liberty and happiness of the
human race—and, lastly, that it is opposed to the dictates
of Christianity. (Cheers.) I will not go beyond the history
of India. The noble lord says that when provinces are
obtained you are not to inquire into the means by which
they have been acquired. Was that always the policy
of this country ? Warren Hastings was a man of great
talents and capacity, who stole provinces, who in-
creased our empire in India, and then returned to this
country. Was the policy indicated by the noble lord
that of the illustrious Whigs of that time ? (fear, hear.)
Did they say that you could not apply the principles of
morals and international law to the acquisition of pro-
vinces? Burke, on the contrary, asked if the principle of
what he called a " geographical morality" was to be acted
upon by the Parliament of England, and whether a thing
which would not stand the test of inquiry in the East was
to be tolerated in the West ? Why, sir, that argument of
the noble lord would sanction all the acquisitions of all the
conquerors, exterminators, oppressors, and tyrants of the
world. I repudiate that argument. It is an unsound ar-
gument. I would not unde what we have done. Yet if
a great Power acted to-morrow as we have done in Oude,
I should hold myself at liberty to revert to the past, and
to judge of the future by the past. The house will re-
member what Warren Hastings did. There was a Scotch
gentleman who vindicated the policy of Warren Hastings.
and wrote a pamphlet upon what he called the hypocrisy
of the House of Commons. They ordered that a prosecu-
tion should be entered against that man ; but his defence
fell to an advocate who in his domain was as great as the
statesmen of that time. How did Erskine defend him ?
On the great principle that the house had allowed Warren
Hastings to do what they might have prevented his doing
by interfering to check him ; that it was only when he
had attempted to exceed the ordinary bounds of hu-
manity that they called on the country to condemn
that policy which they by their tacit acquiescence had
sanctioned. (Cheers.) The jurymen of England ac-
quitted the writer of that admirable pamphlet in defence
of Warren Hastings. In the speech of that wonderful
advocate there occurs a passage which might have been
quoted with truth by the inhabitants of Oude to those who
have served the Queen in these transactions in the East.
" I speak of man and his nature and of human domi-
nion (said Mr. Erskine) from what I have seen of them
myself among reluctant nations submitting to our autho-
rity. I have heard them in my youth from a naked savage
in the indignant character of a prince surrounded by his
subjects addressing the governor of a British colony, catch-
ing a bundle of sticks in his hand as the notes of his un-
lettered eloquence. Who is it,' said the jealous ruler
over the desert encroached upon by the restless foot of
English adventure, ' who is it that causes this river to rise
in the high mountains and to empty itself into the ocean ?
Who is it that causes to blow the loud winds of winter,
and then calms them again in summer? Who is it that
rears up the shade of those lofty forests and blasts them
with the quick lightning at his pleasure ? The same Being
who gave' to you a country on the other side of the waters
and gave ours to us, and by this title we will defend it,
said the warrior, throwing down his tomahawk upon the
ground and raising the war sound of his nation. These
are the feelings of subjugated man all round the globe, and
depend upon it nothing but fear will control where it is
vain to look for affection."
(Cheers.) The noble lord has said, "You will damage the
power of England. You have no right to desert a pub-
lic servant who has never been heard." Was that argument
in the debate on China? (Cheers.) When the question
was discussed whether the conduct of Sir John Bowrieg,
who happened not to be a noble lord, should be repudiated
or sanctioned, what said the noble lord ? (Hear, hear.)
Speaking language worthy his character and the character
of a British statesman, what he said was this :—" I am
told that if we pause in the prosecution of this war the
Chinese will suppose we are afraid of them. I am told that
we must not oast aside our officials—that all is necessary
to be done to maintain the prestige of England ; but the
prestige of England will never sanction injustice. lifY
answer is, let justice be done, and I am content." (Cheers.)
I appeal to the noble lord in the spirit of that arguments
The source of the power of this country is not to be found
iu her victorious arms, or the terror of her mighty name.
She has conquered and ruled, but she will not confiscate,
exterminate, or destroy. That is the true policy of the
country. England never executes her great mission more
completely than when she flings over a prostrate nation the
shield of justice. (Cheers.) Upon that ground the policy of
the Government is to be maintained. I defend it, not in the
letter but in the spirit. I throw the despatch on the table
and I say it is just and politic. (Hear.) It is a policy dine
tico against a policy of injustice. It is a policy of equal'
against a policy of inequity. It is a policy of mercy againeg
a policy of cruelty. (Cheers.) That is the case which I Pre'
sent to you, and I decieve myself if that appeal be ever
made to a British Parliament and made in vain. (Hear,
hear.) The light hon. gentleman the member for Halifa%,
spoke of this as a weak Government, of its weak policy, el
the inferior power of its members. Condemn its policy 11
you like, but condemn it manfully. (Hear, hear.) Brsug
forward a motion and say the policy of the despatch iB
wrong. (Cheers.) We will meet it manfully. If you, es
you pretend to do, but do not do, attempt to question the,
policy of that despatch, bring forward your motion, and
try whether that policy will be approved by this house,
and then try whether it will be disapproved by the cotta-
try. (Loud cheers.) The right hon. gentleman says-118
may say, and it is fair to say—that this Administratie.a
has failed to perform their duty. This house has a rig"
to say so, and if it say so to-morrow it is their duty to
submit to the decision with cheerfulness and respect, and
the only effect will be to inspire them to labour more ear:
neatly to deserve and redeem your favour. (Cheers.) But
I say that during the short time they have been in office
they have discharged their duty. (Cheers.) They hell°
quenched rebellion in the East and pacified the Wee"
They have endeavoured to repair the laws and institutions
of the country, and I think they may make a fair core;
parison between the budget of my right hon. friend en't
the budget of the right hon. gentleman opposite. (Cheers
What the result of this motion may be I know note
but 1 hope, whatsoever may befall, it will, at least,
be known that their policy did not lead them to truckle
to the great or trample on the weak, but to uphold'
the honour, to maintain the independence of the countrys
to cherish the free spirit of liberty, and to keep unsullied,
the grandeur of the monarchy and the glory of the empires
(Loud cheers which lasted several minutes.)
Mr. COLLIER moved the adjournment of the debate%
Mr. DISRAELI hoped that hon. gentlemen who had
notices on the paper for to-morrow would allow the debate
to be resumed.
Lord PALMERSTON joined his request to that of the
right hon. gentleman.
Sir C. NAPIER considered his motion for to-morrow of
so much importance that he must persevere with it.
(" Oh.")
The debate was then adjourned until to-morrow.
The Non-Parochial Registers Bill was read a third tire°
and passed,
On the motion of Mr. MILLER, leave was obtained 0,
bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the law in Ireland
relating to game.
On the motion of Mr. CHEETHAU, leave was given to
bring in a Bill to amend the Copyright of Designs Act. to
On the motion of Mr. ADDERLEY, leave was given bv
bring in a Bill for vesting in the Privy Council certain
powers for the protection of the public health.
The Bills were severally introduced and read a first tine"
On the motion of Lord A. TEMPEST, Captain Vivian
was added to the Select Committee on the Land Translo't
Corps.
The House then adjourned at 25 minutes to 1 o'clock.