The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-30 00:00:00

the local native army, and the local European army there
had been rivalry, but it did not go beyond that. They all
with great emulation equally well served the State, and that
diversity in the army itself contributed on many occasions
fz maintain the authority of the State, and he did not hesi-
tate to say that it would not be safe to have a homogeneous
army in India. .In that case, any grievance, whether real
or imaginary, would affect the whale army, and such a con-
dition of things could not butprovehighlydangerous. With,
regard to the officers of the Company's army, they had now
been waiting for 18 months, perhaps not very patiently, for
the decision of the Government with respect to their position
They had certainly thewerds of an act of Parliament, which
preserved thunselves to some extent, but they had no secu-
rity for their families and those who depended on them.
They had no security that they might not be placed in the
position of retired officers, and deprived of the opportunity
of sharing in the great enterprises of that army, and dise
tinguishing themselves as they had done before. That was
a hard position for a body of officers to be placed in. And
besides this, recollect that when the language of Mr. Wil.
son was made known the whole of that army would feel that
in the mind of one at least of the most able members of the
Government it was doomed. This state of uncertainty ex-
isted too long ; it ought not to last ; justice should be done
to those brave ()Hirers and men ; some consideration should
be shown to their feelings ; and he trusted that when her
Majesty's Government met Parliament again they would
be able to inform the country that they had recognised their
services and placed the future armies of India in a perma-
nent, secure, and honourable position. (Cheers.)
The 1.)111:e of ARGYLL said that, with regard to Mr.
Wilson's speech, he could notlay it on the table as a Parlia-
mentary- document, because it was not usual to make a
Parliamentary document of a speech of any Minister even
in this country. Mr. Wilson was himself responsible for
the form in which the document was sent, and that form
prevented him from laying it on the table of the house as
a parliamentary paper. He declined to make himself re-
sponsible for the terms used by Mr. Wilson, but the noble
earl had borne a little too hardly on Mr. Wilson in his inter-
pretat ion of the passages of that speech to which he referred.
He was hardly prepared to go into the financial part of the
subject, but the noble earl in his opinion materially exag-
gerated the objections that might lie agahrit the measures
proposed by Mr. Wilson. He seemed to forget the serious
position of the Indian Government, which had a deficit very
much the same as that which the Government here had to
deal with—a deficit of £9,000,000 in the present year, and
a prospective.one of £6,500,000•Vir next year. Ho agreed
with the *le earl that their best economy was to stand

well with the native public; but he defied him to provide
£9;000,000 without finding new sources of taxation, and,
though the noble earl found grave fault with the plans of
Mr. Wilson, he did not point out any that he would substi-
tute for them. The scheme of Mr. Wilson in one' respect
held out a prospect of positive relief, because although he

did not agree with Mr. Wilson in the opinion that the land
tax was not a tax, the Government did not propose to in-
crease, but to afford consecutive measures of relief with
respect to that tax, or impost, or rent, whichever it might
be called. He believed that there was a machinery in India

by which the income tax mid be put into operation in that
country. The noble earl laid too much-stress on the words
which Mr. Wilson used with respect to the army, although
he admitted those words might' have been more thought-
fully conceived. When Mr. Wilson said that the native
army had committed suicide, ho no doubt alluded to the
B engal army ; and the army of Bombay and Madras, which
remained faithful, were not in his mind's eye when he used
the language he did. It could not be said that the Euro-
pean army-had ceased :to exist; but the noble earl had
omitted to point out that almost every regiment in India
was reduced to a mere skeleton.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—Oh, no.
The Duke of ARGYLL said he had before him a return
which showed the numbers who had taken their discharge
from each regiment. In one case it was 496, half the regi-
ment ; in another 509; and in no case was it less than 300;
consequently the regiments had been reduced to skeletons.
As to the maintenance of the local army, the late Govern-
ment had appointed a commission to inquire and report on
that subject. That commission comprised two secretaries
and a considerable number of officers connected with the
army. What was the result of that commission ? The two
secretaries had avoided voting, it was believed because they
.were on opposite sides of the question. The majority re-
ported against the discontinuance of the local army, almost
all the officers in the Queen's service voting against it, and
the officers of the East India Company voting in its favour.
The Cabinet of Lord Derby resolved on maintaining the
local army to the extent of two-fifths, the European army
being three fifths. Such was the position of affairs when
the present Government came into office ; and, after fully
considering the matter, they had determined to adhere to
the decision of their predecessors. But events had since
taken place which had materially modified the onions of
many persons both in India and in this country. At the
time of the commission the opinion was almost unanimous
among the Company's officers in favour of the maintenance
of the local army, but he was told that a very considerable
number of them were now in favour of an amalgamation
with the Queen's army. So far from its being their unani-
mous opinion that their position depended on the mainte-
nance of a separate army, thero were many who believed
that their professional prospects would never stand on a
proper footing unless they were incorporated with the
Queen's forces. He would only mention the name of one
cavalry officer, whose authority was deservedly high, that
of Sir Patrick Grant, the cmmander-in-chief of the army
of Madras, an old and distinguished officer of the Company,
who had publicly declared and published his opinion, using
almost the very words of Mr. Wilson, that the late army
was at an end, and that it ought to be amalgamated with
the Queen's army: He did not say that that was the
opinion of Ithe Government. The question, which was a
very difficult one, was still under their consideration; and
unless means could be found, not only fully to provide for
the maintenance of the existing officers in India, but also
to provide for the future a class of men as valuable as they
had been for the civil service, it would be absolutely essen-
tial to adhere to the determination of the Government last
year. lint it was thought that there mere ()tiler means of
providing for the officers now in India, and of securing in
future a supply of men who were willing and anxious to
devote their whole time to the Indian service. (Hear, hear.)
Unless that could be done the determination of the late and
the present Government must be adhered to ; but un-
doubtedl it was a matter of great importance whether late
events had not materially altered the conditions of the
question. The whole number of officers of the local army
was 1,151; of these only 64 were not employed either in
civil or military duties, and these were chiefly elderly men,
or those who were not in good health. The whole matter
was under the consideration of the Government, ant, he
hoped that before the termination of the session he should
be able to announce the conclusion at which they had ar-
rived.

-- The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII said that his own
opinion was strongly in favour of a.aintaining a local ermy.
It was his firm conviction that our future rulein India de-
pended materially on maintaining those diversities in the
Indian army which had hitherto prevailed.
Lord LYVF,DF,N hoped that if the Government were not
able to lay on the table of the house Mr. Wilson's speech,
they would give some information which would enable their
lordships to discuss the subject hereafter. The noble earl,
in the course of his able speech, had introduced nearly every
topic connected with the maintenance of our Indian empire,
and this he had done unexpectedly. It was impossible for
their lordships now to go into the discussion, but he hoped
that an opportunity would be afforded for it. If he under-
stood the matter right, Mr. Wilson would be ebliged to
propose acts of the Legislative Council for every one of his
measures ; and unless that body had altered its mode of
conducting business, three months would have to elapse be-
tween the different stages of a bill. He should like to
know whether the Government meant to send out orders for
passing the acts in a more summary manner. The moment
the acts were passed the duties would be levied, though the
home Government might afterwards annul those acts if they
chose. He had been the first to propose, in the other house,
that a financial counsellor should be sent out to India.
Without approving all that Mr. Wilson had done, he would
observe that he was the only person who had grappled with
the difficulty. For years we had gone on with a deficiency,
complaining of the Indian accounts which nobody could un-
derstand ; but no one had made any proposal to meet the
difficulty until Mr. Wilson arrived in India. The first thing
he had done was to pass the income tax, of the elasticity of
which their lordships knew something, or would do next
year. The noble earl had admitted that no class was so
lightly taxed as the merchants of India ; and it was said
that it was impossible to levy this tax upon them. He con-
tended that it could be levied on them as easily as on the
tradesmen of London. He wished to know whether the in-
formation on which Mr. Wilson had proceeded would be
laid before the house ; also whether his proposals had the
sanction of Lord, Canning and the council, and whether
some despatch had not been sent home that might be laid
before the house. Ho entirely concurred with the noble earl
as to the necessity of maintaining the local army.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH thought it probable that
Mr. Wilson's measures would be passed in India without
any discussion. He proposed to tax all classes. The idea
of taxing the army was suicidal. The capitalists of India
lent out their money at high interest ; and he believed that
it would be impossible to get at that money. -
The Duke of ARGYLL said that the Government was
not in possession of any official information which it. could
lay before the house. lie hoped that the Government in
India would lose no time In passing the measures. It had
been the object of Parliament in passing the late act to form
a strong Government for India, and also that the Gove -
ment of India should be in India. (Hear, hear.) rn
groat
measure Earl of ELLENBOROUGII said this was a
measure of taxation which disposed 'of the property of all
claSses, and many of the natives thought it contrary to good
faith that they should be taxed. Notwithstanding the im-
portance of the measure not one man in the Indian Council
was capable of expressing his opinion on it.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said they had estab.
lished a council in Leadenhall-street at an enormous ex-
pense; now they were sending out a gentleman who had
never been in India before, with power to tax the whole
popnlietion. As the plan must have been commented upon
either in a despatch or a minute, the house ought to have