The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-20 00:00:00

cern:di-1a thcplan of the right ton. gentleman. It is for
that rea-on---in order that we may act fairly, candidly,
and sincerely towards the country on this question, in
order that he wise arrangemenis of the right hen, gen-
tleman -ea) be a s-nted to, and that that great eel cy—
fo: a great policy with regard' to the income-tax I be-
lieve it to be—iii.ulti be ixciimpli,loel, that 1 .44'411-pro-
pose not. to encumber •1860 or 1861 with the bonds--
which at present we cannot meet, but I shall propose
that in 1862 and 1863 1,000,0001. should be apportioned
to each year. (Hear, hear.) When that is done I have no
doubt the policy of 1853 will be carried into effect.
(Hear, hear.) I now submit these propositions to the
candid consideration of the committee. When they re-
collect the expectations of the country as to the revenue,
and the fact that at the end of last year, and indeed so
late as the period at which I assumed office, the esti-
mated deficiency was not less than 6,500,0001., I hope
they will not be dissatisfied with the information that
by the rallying of the revenue during the last quarter,
and by judicious retrenchment, the immense deficit that
so long brooded over the spirit and depressed the energy
of the country has been dissipated, notwithstanding the
reduction of an impost most odious to the people, in a
manner which guarantees an entire accomplishment of
the right hon. gentleman the member for the University
of Oxford. This result will, I think, be satisfactory to
the country as well as to the committee ; and I trust
that these propositions will not only receive the candid
consideration of the committee, but obtain, after due
thought and discussion, the cordial acceptance of the
country. (Loud cheers, io the midst of which the right
hon, gentleman resented his seat.)
The CHA lItMAN having put the first resolution, the
effect of which was that the dirty on Irish spirits should
be assimilated to that on English and Scotch spirits,
Mr. GROGAN said he thought the committee could
not but admire the ability and clearness of the Chaneel-
lor of the Exchequer's statement. (Cheers.) His state-
ment as to the deficit no doubt seemed to alarm them,
but they must feel he had conferred a substantial benefit
OD the country by adhering to the arrangement of 1853,
arid thus insuring the extinction of the income tax in
1860. (Hear.) The committee would not feel surprised
at an Irish member's objection to one of the right hon.
gentleman's propositions, viz., that as to Irish spirits.
(Laughter.) He had that day presented a petition signed
by upwards of 4,000 of the inhabitants of Dublin, com-
plaining of the ruinous effects of the present war impost
on Irish whisky, one of the chief articles of Irish mann-
f .cture, and praying for its reduction. What must be
the ft eling of the petitioners when they learnt that not
only was that impost not to be reduced to its amount
before the late war, but further increased S The statement
of the right hon. gentleman showed there was no neces-
sity for that increase of taxation. He had congratulated
the committee on the fact that an increase of the impost
had not been followed by an increase of illicit distillation;
bat the peculiar circumstances of Ireland during the last
two or three years prevented such a result. The right
hon. gentleman might rest assured that illicit distillation
would revive in full force as soon as the Irish crop be-
came favourable to it ; and that the gain to the revenue
from the proposed increase of duty would be more than
counterbalanced by the expense which endeavours to re-
press it would entail.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY observed that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had omitted the estimated expenses of
the Chinese war. He apprehended that as the expendi-
ture last year was estimated by the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer at 65, 474,000/., but proved to be 70,000,0001.,
so the expenditure this year would be considerably more
than the estimate of the present Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer. He therefore wished to know whether it
was not probable that the expenditure on account of
the army and navy this year would, as was the case
last year, exceed the estimates by some millions I It
was, of course, impossible fur any Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer to estimate accurately in respect of contingen-
cies ; but on that very account the committee ought not
to rely on the right hon, gentleman's estimate of the ex-
penditure of this year. He most coriially approved his
prop )sition as to the income-tax, but begged to remind
him of the great injustice to which the holders of the
annuities that would expire in 1860 were subjected.
That class of public creditors paid 17 times more tax than
the holders of perpetual annuities. He wished to know
whether there were no outstanding debts which would
be included in the expenditure of the present year.
Mr. DEASY said that as the propositien of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer would affect a most im-
portant branch of Irish trade, and involve consequeincei .
of great importance in a social point of view, he hoped
the right hon. gentleman would not call for a decision on
the question at once. He (Mr. Deasy) feared the measure
proposed by the right hon. gentleman would lead to the
increase of illicit distillation in Ireland, and he hoped the
resolution would be postponed, at all events until Friday.
Sir C. LEWIS—In the very lucid statement which
the right hon. gentleman has made to the committee he
has adverted principally to the finances of the current
year, commencing in April last, but he also made some
partial allusion to the finance of the preceding year. His
statements, so far as they related to numerical facts, ap-
peared to me to be strictly correct, but some observa-
tions which he made in the nature of comment upon the
character of last year's expenditure I cannot allow to.
pass without explanation. In arguing upon the question
of a war sinking fund the right hon, gentleman adverted
to the expenditure of last year, as proving that the op..
ration of such a sinking fund was fallacious,—that there
was a deficit of 2,000,000/. upon the expenditure of hint
year, and the payments for the liquidation of Exchecerier-
bonds to the ex ent of 2,000,000/. having been taken out
of the balances of the precedine year could not be 'consi-
dered as a redemption of debt out of the revenues 'of last
year. Now, I wish to call the attention of the core mitts*
to the payments which were made out of the rev enue of
last year in the nature of the redemption of debt, beyond
the 2,000,000/. of Exchequer Bonds. Out of the re-
venue of last year there were redeemed in the 'Datum of
debt 2,000,000/. of Exchequer Bonds, and there were
also Exchequer Bills paid off in money to the !amount of
288,6001. I am not able to state whether therm billshave
been reissued, but, so far as my knowledge extends, they
have not, and therefore their payment won/c1 be a re-
demption of debt. There was also the war e4nking fund
of last year to the amount of 250,0001. ; there was a
sinking fund under the operation of the Act of Parlia-
ment, of 77,8621. ; and there was a payment of
1,125.206/. for the redemption of Sound Dues, which
was iu the nature of the payment of debt, inasmuch
as if it had not been defrayed from the revenues
of the year the amount must have been borrowed. That
amount was not included in the estimates laid before the
house at an early period of the session. The total of these
sums is 3,741,6681., which was paid last year in the na-
ture of the redemption of debt. The committee will
bear these facts in mind before they come to the conclu-
sion that there was anything fallacious or deceptive in -
the redemption of debt last year. The amounts I have
mentioned were not the only sums paid last year out; of
the revenue, in addition to the estimate which I submitted
to the house at the beginning of the session. We paid,
besides, 635,0001. for the Persian expedition, 401.,0001.
for the dowry of the Princess Royal, and a suppt omen.'
mry vote of 500,0001. for the militia. Now, all these
charges, in addition to the estimates I laid up on the
table at the commencement of the session, w ere dis-
charged from the revenue of the year, with thee excep-
tion of 2,000,0001. taken out of the balance of the pre-
coding year, and I will state why I thoughst it a per-
fectly legitimate operation to diminish the ba lances to
that extent. On the 31st of March, 1857, the balances in
the Exchequer amounted to 8,668,000/., a Bum which was
unnecesearily large. On the 31st of March thiis year the
balances in the Exchequer amounted to 6.,657,0001.,
which, as the right hon. gentleman has said with
great truth and candour must be considered es large sum
to be retained in the Exchequer. But out of the revenue
of last year many payments were made which were unex-
pected when the estimate of expenditure W 249 submitted
by me to the house, and which wore rendered necessary
by the Indian mutiny, and by the consequent, increase of
expenditure for the army and navy. When these facts are
taken into consideration the committee will, I think,
come to the conclusion that there was nothing fallacious
or diceptive in the operations for the redemption of debt
last year, I shall not trouble the committee at any length
with regard to the plan of financial arrangements for the
current year which has been submitted to them by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. I will merely state that;
I certainly concur with the right hon, gentleman in think-
ing that there is a fundamental distinction between a de-
ficiency of revenue caused by current expenditure, and
such a deficiency caused by operations in former years
for the redemption of debt. I reserve any observations
with regard to the war sinking fund of 1,500,0001. until
the right hon. gentleman brings in his measure. I retain
the opinion I formerly expressed that some arrangement
of this nature is expelient to provide for the regular re-
demption of debt, f e. if we trust merely to the operatic see
of the existing Sinking Fund Act there is no security for
the regular reduction of debt, and if we are to redeem
any considerable amount it is necessary to impose a dis-
tinct obligation for the redemption of a certain sum.
When the Loan Act was passed it was impossible to fore-
see how long the war would continue, and I folly admit
teat when we are called upon bylaw t 'redeem 2,1000,000/.
Exchequenboude, and there is a heavy Expend:Aura for
military and naval purposes, it can scarcely be expected
that weshould impose fresh taxes to meet the warr sinking
fund of 1,500,000/, The right hon. gentleman has said
with regard to the Exchequer-bonds, that be proposes
simply to postpone them, but he must be aware that they
do not admit of postponement. They fall due on. at certain
day, arid there is nu provision for the payment of these
bonds unless the right hon. gentleman takes a vote in
Committee of Supply. What the right hon. [gentleman
calls postponement is, therefore, in fact, the creation of
another loan. (Hear, hear.) Ile can only pay off those
Esc:he-per bonds by borrowing, and therefore, instead
of postponement, the proposal of the right bon. gentle-
man weal lead to the incurring of another unfunded debt
to the extent of 2,000,000/, for a certain number of
years. With reeved to the equalisation of the spirit
duties in Ireland and Great Blitain, I can quite confirm
the accuracy of what the house seemed to regard as a
peradoeieal statement un the part of the Chancellor of
tee Exchequer—that great incidental advantages will
accrue to the II isi spirit manufacturers from the freedom
of iuterc tars,: and the abelitiou of all fiscal restrictions
between Ireland and Great Britain. Although it may,
no doubt, be inconvenient to the Irish consumers to pay
an additional duty upon spirits, the Irish spirit trade
ev:11 thrive great incidental benefit from the equalisation
of duties. It is a perfectly fair proposition which the
r girt hoe. gentleman has laid before the committee,
and I trust that he will not consent to any application
for a postponement of the resolution—(near, heer)—
inasmuch as any delay in a matter of iris sort would
afford an opportun ty for taking spirits out of bond, and
thereby make a considerable diminuiion iu the revenue
which the Exche cpasr would receive during the present
year. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, if the committee are to
come to a conc'usion upon the subject, I would strongly
advise them to canto to that conclusion to-night, with-
out agreeing to defer the question till souse nature day
0( lf
jaetipr,rehsenai
vg o
hear.) would
thel d a takelrsioghth
tehn. gentleman the presentgen emanand u
opportunityt•