The Sun.
London, England, 1803-03-16 00:00:00

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FAL PARLIAMEN 7.

HOUSE OF LEERS.

TITESDAy, MARCH IS.

Tx v. various Bills before the House were forwarded in their
respective stages.
The Irish Revenue Perpetuation Bill was brought up
from the Commons by Mr. ALLXAWDZR and others, and
read a first time, _ _

Messrs. ElWAftes NOEL, GORE LANC,TON. and STU...-
ART brought up a Private Bill each from the Commons,
which were respectively read a first time. ,
The Order being read for the Committee on the
Prince of Wales's Annuity Bill, the -House accord.
ingly resolved into the same, Lord WALSINGHAM
in the Chair.

On the first Clause being read, and the Question
put,
The Earl of,CAR LISLE rose and observed, that
after his deelaratiol.l of yesterday, respeCting his
intention, not, under the present circumstances, to
bring for Ward any distinft proposition on the sub.
.jest, it could not be expeCted that he should. have
to trouble theirlordships wit h any detail thereon, the
more especially as the Bill was now before a Com.
inittee of the whole House, in which stage of it,
.no efficient alteration could be proposed.. With re.
sped to the subjear, however, he would then stale
generally, that he retained those opinions upon it
which he had formerly avowed—that with a refer_
epee to thC:prestint traniaaion in particular, he
was of opinion the Illuirrious Personage who was
the objets of it, was as ill-used as- any man
could be.. The Bill before the Committee would
toe voila -live of those effeets which would disap-
point hopes held out, and frustrate expeCtations
formed. Without adverting to the personal feelings
of His Royal Highness upon such an oeczsion, it
was now,'he said,7known that the public expeAation:
or seeing him resume that State and Splendor with,
ivhich it wets agreed on all hands, the Heir.APpa.
rent to the Crown should be invested, would be
entirely disappointed. He thought the question of
the Arrears of the Dutchy of Cornwall, should be

legally decided the general subjeet would then
come before Parliathent in a clearer point of view,
and they would be the better able to judge what
course to take. The Bill before the Committee,

would, be "contended, not afford that relief to

His Royal Higheess which it professed—that_ 11.
Justrious Personage would be -left by it, at least
for some time to come, in that degraded, nay, al.
most ignominious situation, in which, for a consider.
üble time, he would be placed. Royal High.
tress, it appeared, was so eircumscinced, with re-
spcet to claims upon him, that the Bill could not
have even its proposed circa, for at least one year
and a hair. Ministers had much better have waited
until the period -of the liquidation of those claims,
when they
•e-Antltt have effedually cork: forward ;
but though, notwithstanding he felt himself called
upon to' offer these general observations, yet his
principal motive for Iroubling their Lordships was,
,to explain an expression which he Made use of yes-
terday,.,which then seemed to make some impres.
stem upon a Noble Earl, and `which appeared to be
since, in some !legree,, misapprehended.. Recur.
ring Again to .the subject of his former animadver-
sions, the , Noble Earl observed, that the measure
under the consideration of the•Comnilittee, was like
all the Other measures of ,the
,present Administra.
two, weak, ineffieicstt, futile • in fad, a hall'rnea.
sure ; inefficacious as to its objet}, and falling short
of its avowed end. He then adverted to his
language' of yesterday :—he had, he observed, ex.
pressed his opinion, that the Country was in a, peti-
, lints state, and he would repeat, that the Country,
under all its present circumstances, was perilously
situated :—this idea, however, was provisional.
We were to lie regarded as on the eve of experien-
cing au Invasion, at least, little less than such a
state of things was to he inferred from the tenor of
the. two R-yal Communications to Parliament.—
Thus circumstanced, and when it was considered,
that the Kuidanee of the Affairs of the Country W4B
kft in the hands of the present Ministers, its situa.
sion could be-truly said to be no other than perilous:
the-Puhlic, he asserted, did not look up with con.
fidence to the talents and abilities of the present
Ministers—the National Spirit, or the Public
could not he called forth' or efficaciously ex-.
ied, under their auspices. Were men of emment
talents, and • real abilities, 'as Statesmen, called to
the guidance of Affairs, the situation of the Court.
try would be diametrically opposite to that in
which it was placed at present ; from a state
of dismay and despondence, it would pass to one of
hope and exultation ; Public confidence and energy.
would revive, and we may bid daance to all mite
efrorts:of Fcancq, anti laugh-her menaces to scorn.
W may 'then say, in the concise but comprehensive
language of the Poet, '' Come take !" which lie
feared we could not.do at present; These were his
feelingq when he had used, perhaps tastily, the
expression, that the Country was in a perilous state :
under her present Rulers, he • feared is was; but
under the guidance of those great Charaders he hail
in contemplation, its st4te would be foll of well.
founded lope, and justly. codden't expeaation..

v •
Lord PELHAM' rose to answer SOtlit pliserya.
rintia which fell from the. Noble Earl, 44 greater
part of which, however, were obviously ikrelcvant
to the soOje.et' before the. Committee. With ri-
Sra to the,affAirs cif the Illustrions Personage, who
was the objet of the 4111,. the Noble Earl seetued
to be under some misconception, and, itt

ing which, the N.;ble Seeretary was neees.
satily led into some detailed exposition of tlau
nifair, from she time when the lira arrangements
were niade in 1795 to the present moment-; which
train of Circumstances- being already knowo to our.
Readers, we deem it unnecessary to• repeat them.
Ily the operation of the Bill of 1795, the Debts
of His Royal
_HiglinesS would not, his Lord Ship
ob.t;crved, be liquidated:bthre the end of four years,
instead of the expiration of a year and' an half, ad
misconceived by the Noble .I:4=arl. Much stress
seemed to be laid on what' fell from Noble Lorthi
Supposed to be in babits of communication, 'with
His Royal' Hielrieis, but he could state, that as
fir as hit; owp-Aservation went, the Prince himself
see6ed to be tery well satisfied with what was pro..
robed by His Majesty's Ministers. The operation
of th,- present 80l was to restore to His Royal High_
tiess tine full possession of that income, which, alter

much deliberation, and discussion, was deemed ti the
the year Y 795 to be sufficient for maintaining the
dignity and splendor of the Heir Apparent,...;..
With resped to the other considerations, to which.
the Noble Earl's observations were dire led, he
would only say, that assertions, however strongly
made, did not amount to proof, and that the feel.
ings and opinions of a whole Country, or the Pub-
lic, were not to be colleded from the sentiments of
a-few individuals. His Majesty's Ministers held
opinions on that. point, very different 'from those
held by the Noble Earl. He denied that they had for.
kited or lost the confidence of the Country. As one
of those Ministers, he could say, that he had !Icier
courted the possession of the Office he had then the
Honour to hold. It had been his lot to he placed
in situations of great public trust and importance,
in which situations, as well as in his present, he al-
ways exerted his honest endeavours to perform his
duty to his Sovereign, and to his Country, in a pro-
per, fair, and unexceptionable -manner. That he
had filled offices ofitnportance, in situations of ex-
treine'peril and danger, fully to the approbation of
those by whom he was entrusted, he assumed no
personal merit, for it was his duty so to ad. The
Noble Earl, and the House, should recoiled, that at
the tune His Majesty's present Ministers were
called to their Offices, the Country was in a state of
unprecedented difficulty and peril ; and the Noble
Earl .would do well to recoiled the situation in
Which the Country was left, by those men of great
abilities, and eminent talents, when they had re.
, tired from their offices.

The Ear/ of CrIRL/SLE, in explanation, ob.
served, that what be had said relative to the sohjeet
regularly before the Committee he merely offered
as an independent Member of Parliament, actuated
by no other motives than those arising from a sense
of his duty ro the Public and the Country. That
he had no communications with the Illustrious Per.
sonage on the occasion, whom, the Noble Earl re-
peated, had been ill-treated in the present instance,
and was, in cad, left by Ministers in that de-
graded and comfortless situation from which they
professed to extricate him: With respeet to what
had fallen from the Noble Secretary of State rela-
rive to the situation of affairs at a former period,
he, deemed it then unnecessary to expatiate.
Though a great deal, he observed, might in ordi-
nary cases proceed upon presumption, yet when
the safety and existence of an Empire was at stake,
such grounds of action should be exploded. With
record to the charader and conduct of a certain great
and Illustrious Man, which not only by him, but try
the , Nation in general, was regarded with feelings
of gratitude and admiration, he would aver of that
reat man, he meant. Mr. PITT, that he was the
Political Saviour of his Country :—this great man
was, with others, accused and suspeEted by Mr..
Bonaparte of being concerned in the affair ofwhat
ht Called the infernal Machine, for taking away his
life. Of this accusation, he believed, every honest
map would acquit him i, but there was another Ma_
chine, he could not say ap Infernal, but a very mis.
chievous one, which, (so we understood his Lordship),
possibly he had some concern in, namely, the forma.
tion of the present Ministry, whose conduct had
abUndantly compensated Bonaparte for whatever in.
jury he might have sustained, from the machibutioni
he at first alluded to.

The LARD CHANC4LLOR..onswered the re.
marks of the Noble Earl shortly, but with a consi
derable degree of Spirit and animation. He first
observed upon the evident irregOlarity of the greater
part of what had fallen from the Noble Earl. Llpon
the measure itself before the Committee, he had ap-
plied the general expressions of weak, inefficient,
and an lialf.measure—snch as, according to the
Noble Earl, were all the measures of the pre.
sent miserable Administration of the Country.--;.
However, .with respett to the Bill regularly under
discussion, he would tell his Lordship and the Com.
mittee, that it was such, .as Ministers, upon a full
consideration .of the stibjett with a reference to
the situation of the Prince himself, and their,duty
to the Public, in which view of the subjed, that
situation made a part, thought it adviseable and
proper to propose. That it was .an half measure
would be contradiaed by the very
.tenor and
spirit of His Majesty's Message; and the Noble
Earl should be aware 'that there' was more real
magnanimity and genuine spirit in firmly ad.
hering,. against the opinion olothers, to a,mea.
sure, which upon due .deliberation, they decided
upon as good and serviceable, than there was in
leaning to what the precipitation. of others may
wish to be tiene. With respeCt to the general.
question of confidence: to Ministers, he thought
precisely with ,his Noble Friend, who spoke second
in the Debate ; and personally to himself he. had 'to.'
observe, that the litvour of his. Sovereign had cle.
vated him to that situation, which certainly he'
had. nut coveted, hut which at the same time, he
thought it his duty to his Sovereign--to others, and
to his Country to accept of, and Etc hoped he had
honestly and ,conscientiously 'performed his duly
therein, while he held it. 'With regard to the.
Noble Earl's explanation of his language of yesier.
day, he would only say, that he hoped the
liistration had shoulders broad enough to bear that
and even more. 'Much was'said of the confidence of
the Country, but that Ministers were not destitute
of it was plain; by the almost unanimous appioba.
Lion of :their measures, by that Constitutional on.
gan of. the Nation, the Parliament—these measures.
ivere founded in their sense of what they deemed
the best interests of their Country ;, and, by the
decisions of that Assembly„ with respeCt to the
wisdOm or spirit of their Fondues, they would wish
to be judged, and not by the observations of
idUals.

The Clauses and Provisions of the. Bill were then
arced to without farther observation from the
Comtoittee, and the House resuming, ordered the
Report to be received to.mc►rrow.

On the question for the second' reading of the
Trish Postage Duties Bill,
:Lord AUCia AND called the attention ,of their
Lordships to the effeel of a particular Clause in the
Bill, which, notwithstanding the evidently intended
operation.of the Bill, would, toil certain extent,
go to an internal regulation, with respect to this
Country. His Lordship referred to the impossibility
of reading the Irish Bills thoroughly as they came
up; but the arid of the Clause lie alluded to,

strut him so forcibly that he should call their
Lordships' attention to it, when the Bill should go
JO a Committee ; and he ,doubted not but the ex_
planationi he should then give, would bring their
Lordships perfectly to coincide with him.
The observations of the Noble Lord gave rise to
an explanatory conversation of some length, between
the Duke of Noa Foot, on whoi suggestion the
clause was read, and Lords AUCKLAND, PELHAM,
and the Earl of LtMIR tet. As this conversation
related principally to the nature of these Offices in
Ireland, the holders of which it was proposed to
exempt, and as the clause itself is to be regularly
discussed in the committee, we forbear to recite
what passed in the present instance.
F The Bill was then read 'a second time, anti as we
could colle&,- committed for to-morrow,

• The Order,being read for their Lordships going
into a Committee on the Bill_ for the more effeetual
Prevention of frivolous and vexatious Arrests, &c.
the House accordingly resolved itself into the same,
Lord WALSINGHAM in the Chair.
The leading Clauses and Provisions of the Bill
were then discussed by the Committee.
The principal speakers were Lords &Lax-
aostoirou and AINANLEY, and the Esti of.Motaw.
In the course of the, observations that were made,
the Noble Earl seemed, for the present, to relinquish
his idea of raising the lowest amount for which.
Arrests were to take place to the sum of zol. deem.
ing it under the present circumstances of the case,
preferable to let it remain at the original amount. He
also stated his intention to propose that after the
amendMents should be made in the Bill, and the
blanks filled up, it should be printed, and let lie
over until the return of the Judges to town, when it
should be recommitted, &c.

The amendments were made principally on the
suggestions of the Noble Earl..and Lord &Law.
BOROUGH, and On the-Motion of the latter one of
the clauses of the Bill was negatived;and afteiwartis
supplied by.a proposition of his own.
Thi LORD CHANCELLOR shortly. observed,
that as the Bill was to be recommitted, he should
not then trouble their Lordships upon the subjeft;
it had certainly undergone already much serious
investigation, and probably would still farther be
discussed ; fur his ow.n part he was ready to co.
,operate in really ameliorating that part of our legal
system, and in supporting the Bill, as far as a re-
gard to the genuine interests of the administration
of justice would warrant.
The Bill being gone through. by the Committee,
the House resumed, and ordered the report to be
received to-morrow.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

TUEbDAY, MARCH 15.

THE SPEAKER took the Chair at Three o'clock, and went
through a great deal of private business.
Several rapers relAtive to the Stamp Duties were present.
ed, which were ordtred to lie on the Table.
Mr. Di CKEP SON, jilt). brought uli a Report from the Se.
led Committee appointed to try the merits of the Heretbrd.
shire Median, stating, that JOHN GXICRS COTTER ELL, Esq.
was not duly elected, but that Sir Gao. CORNEWALL was
duly eleCiedto serve a a Member for the,abOvemtrned-Coun.
ty, and that the Petition was not ftivolous or vexatious.
A new Writ was then nrdered for the County of Hereford,
in the MOM Of 3. COTTpELLL; Esq.
Sir MA TT it tw WHITE fIIDLEY presented a Petition front
john Hall, who was m the custody of the Serjlant at Arms,
for prevarication on his examination as a Witness before the
Select Committee appointed to try the merits of the Great
Grimsby Illetition.

OH ;Ile Petition being read, which was expressive of great
contrition for the offence he had committed,
Sir MATTHEW WHIT/ RfpLvy moved, that John Hall
should be brought before the House tomorrow an discharg..
ed ; which was agreed to, and tale Petition was ordered to lie
on the Table.

The Order of the Day Waf read for taking into
consideration the Grand Juation Canal Bill.

Sir JOHN ANDERSON *lid, he begged leave
to cal) the attention of the House to a part of the
Bill now under their consideratioo; he did not
mean to make any objection to the sum which the
Bill provides for the completion of this great under-
taking; but it contained a clause which went to
enable the Contrnittee to dispossess any mo of his
house or land, for the gratification of their pleasure
or convenience ' • this he considered highly arbitrary,
as it gave the Committee the power to do as they
might think proper, with the property of
.whom
they pleased. He therefore moved, that the clause
to the died h,e had just stated, he left out.
This amendment being agreed to, the Bill was
ordered to be
,engrossed.
•Mr. ALEXANDER. brought up the Report of the
Expiring Laws Bill, which was read and agreed to,
and the Bill ordered W be read a third time to.
morrow.

Mr. CORRY moved for leave to bring in a Bill
lo continue the R.estridinns on the Payment of
Cash at the Rank of Ireland. He.observed,_ that
this Bill.geew nut of a similar measure which had
been adopted in this country.--Leave
The Irish Customs Bill was read a third time,
and passed.
Several Members had leave of absence from in-
disposition.
C. DICKENSO~r gave notice, ..that he' should
*love for leave, •to.morrow, to bring .a Bill ,to
SUITSIId PTOSCCtitlettS.4gainst- Clergymen, ;under the
Attof Henry VIII.

The House resolved itself into a Committee upon
the Irish Militia Bill. •
Mr. WIt'KH44I moved the insertion of a Clause,
authorizing the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to cause
a sum, not exceeding four guineas, to be paid to
each person inrolling himself in the Militia of Ire-
land,

Mr. ELLMTrequested to know, whether this,
Bill w•as intended
.to extend to every part of the.
Militia of. Ireland, or only, to apply to a particular
part of that Country ?
Mr. WICKHAM said, this Bill was brought in,
to authorize the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to raise
Militia.men at four :guineas, in consequences: of the
difficulty which_ had been experienced in getting
persons ,to serve, when chosen' by Ballot y at the
same time, it left the Lord Lieutenant the power to
get them at a smaller Bounty if possible :. he how.
'ever, had the privilege to offer every induceirieni
to persons to enter. _

Mr. ELLIOT observed, that he thought it his
duty to make a few observations on this Bill be-
fore it passed into a Law : he thought it would
tend to subvert the Recruiting Service of Ire.
land, He was not an enemy to the Establi4hment

or a Militia in that Ceuntre;. There was a prat.
cal difference between England and Ireland, as to •
the formation of the Militia. In this Country,
men are chosen by ballot ; but in Ireland,. it has
been formed and concluded both by ballot and boun-
ty. He thought, and indeed experience had taught
him, that if a bounty of four guineas were giveti
to induce men to enter into the, Militia, it,avotdd
operate as a great injury to the Recruiting Service,
particularly as so large a oumber of men as 4.e,oCa „
were to be raised.
Mr. IVICKHAM said he was sure that the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Ewen-) had not taken the trouble
to look over the Bill, otherwise he would not now
have made those observations on it. It was almost
unnecessary to' state 'the manner and method adopt-
ed in this Country to raise Militia-men„ as every
Gentleman in the House knew there was but
one. But in Ireland the same method would
not effed the establishment of a Militia: and he
did not hesitate to say, that the Militia had
not been raised in that Country by ballot.
Ia
Ireland it was the province of the Lord Lieute-
nant to procure Militiamen in every .way that.wae
honourable and just, and it was found from expe.
rience, that the methods tried had been in some mea-,
sure defedlve, which has given cause to the. pre-
sent Bill, which Bill will extend the power of the
Lordmayia be
give
eu'eniannctlintoedto figa better
bounty
t~ti of
their Liberty and Laws. The Learned Gentleman
had observed, that he was an advocate for raising the.
for the pro ttoe,apei
Militia by Ballot, and that be thought a Bounty,
,of
rsans
four guineas would be hurtful to the Recruiting
who
Service ; but he would beg the Hon, Gentleman to
consider, that if the Militia was raised by %Hot, -
Substitutes would be consequently got .at a heavy
price ; by that moans, Men would sooner wait fut. s
offers of this >kind than enter into .the Regular Ser-
vice. Heart convinced, that the present measure
was calculated to benefit the Militia Force of Ire.
land.
Mr. ELLIOT said, he did not think it a mea- •
sure calculated to augment the Militia of Ireland ;
helhought -if men were not raised by ballot, they
could not be raired.st all.
The SECRETARY at WAR said, he could not
help complaining
that the Hon. Gentleman hag
thought proper to enter into an examination of the
Militia Laws of Ireland, upon an incidental cepa°
of this kind,, particularly at the present moment,
when every exertion was necessary to complete
the force of the Empire. Whether partieulat
i•
parts of the Militia Laws were good or bad, it was
now the duty of every man to make the hest of it,
and it was rather singular that the Hon, Gentlenvwz
Who was one of the first to sound the trumpet ()s
alami, should now take an opportunity of disl
heartening the public mind with respell to the
public force. It would certainly have been tnote
proper for the. Hon. Gentleman, when the other
Bill was brought forward, in. December last, to.
come forward and to have stated his, general. objec,
tions to the measure; -but he then sat pettedly sie
lent, and did not offer one single objettion ;' he
now, when it was necessary to amend that Bill 10
'some particulars, the Honourable Gentleman cattle
forward with general objections to the whoio
of the system. The Honourable .Gentlems3
must know, that the'. 14ilitia of Ireland, !ma
never been, nor could .lbw be raised, entirehr
by Ballot. Why chell• did he. not bring forward
Bill to correCteliat .evil? It had, however, been,
suffered to go on to'the—present time, end was.
therefore necessary to make the.
.best of it. The'
objet of the preseot Plitt was only to enable the
Lord Lieutenant to grant a greater Bountyt
if it
should be. found necessary; and to coetinue a 1111 i
~
which would expire in a short time, to the end or
the year : and if
the Bount -did not exceed foot
Guineas, it certainly would not materially affed•the
Recruiting Service, if, indeed; it would at all in.
- terfere with it.
s;r L. PARSONS said, there appeared two [Ante
for consideration—ethe one was, whether the me-.
thod adopted by this Bill was Constitutional ? And
•
the other was, whether the way of getting Men hi.
a Bounty, would answer the ptte pose of the Coun-
try better than by Ballot ? He thought with the
'Gentleman who preceded him, that the present Bill
would answer every purpose. the Country could Wish
for, and. give a much greater satisfadion to the pere
sons who served in the Militia. He mild assure
the Committee,. that chusing persons by Ballot, very
often rendered the Officers very unpleasant, as they
had frequently to associate with Men, whom theY
would not hive taken among them, if such a Bill as
the present had been in force.
•
Mr. FITZGERALD said, that he approved Os' . •
the present Bill, and thought it was a much better
method of raising men than by ballot, as it would'
do-away that trouble and ;expence which attended
anlndividual in getting a substitute.
General
,TARLETON expressed his high appro.',
bation of the Bill now -Under discussion; whic"
would tend to facilitate the getting of men in Ire-
land. He well knew the state of 'the Irish Militia,
. and was proud to say, he had the honour tO come
enand a Regiment of Militia in that Country, who
had given ample proof of their loyalty and afreaion • .
to their King, and who were ati honourable example
dander Of a Soldier ; and ho
.of courage and every requisite that can adorn the
hoped that the Mili•
tia of every County in the Empire, would shew the
same desire to proemit from the attacks of an
Enemy.
Mr. ELLIOT said, he thoUght that four guineas,
. was too great a sum 'to give tor- men, as it wcitll4
add a very heave~rr expense to the Country ; with a
less bounty the Lord Lieutenant might increase the '
Militia to double the number mentioned in the Bill.
He Could,not but express- his disapprobation of the
measure, as he thought it would not teed-to serve
the Country..
• The SIC/MARY at 'Walt said a few words id'
answer to Mr. kw or.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL of IRELANP
said, he could not but express his astonishment at. • •
the objections made' by. the Hon.. Gentleman (Sr%
Et,Lio7) who sat with him in another Parliantent;
and he must be permitted to call to the-recolleetioni:
of the Hon. Gentleman, the time he pettedly agreel
to the very principle he now reprobates. A Bill
went through the Itish House of Commons, granting
the sum of six pounds to every man who would