The Sun.
London, England, 1858-02-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OP COMMONS.—(This Day.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at two o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following bills were read a second time and
ordered to be committed :—Allendale Stinted Pasture ;
Birkenhead Improvement Commissioners (Gas and
Water) ; Blackburn Railway ; Manchester Poor; Sel-
kirk and Galashiels Railway ; Stockton and Darlington,
Wear Valley, coo., Railway Companies Amalgamation ;
Warrington and Stockport Railway (Capital); and
Chester Gas.

LEAVE OF ABSENCE.
On the motion of Mr. E. ELLIC; leave of absence was
given to Sir Joseph Paxton on account of ill health.
PAPER Bury.
Sir J. DUKE presented petitions praying for a re-
peal of the paper duty.
QUARANTINE.
Mr. C. FORESTER moved for a copy of the returns
received from the British colonies of the number of ships
placed in quarantine, and of other particulars relative
thereto, in each of the ten years ending the 31st of
December, 1854 ; also, for a copy of or extract from a
despatch rom Governor Sir George Grey to the Secre-
tary of State for the Colonies, dated November 7, 1857,
on the subject of the military force in New Zealand dur-
ing his administration of that government P • and, for a
copy of or extract from a despatch from the Governor of
Bermuda to the Secretary of State for the Colonies,
incloriug a report from the commissioners appointed to
inquire into the first appearance and spread of yellow
fever at Bermuda in the year 1856.—Ordered.
ECCLESIASTICAL RESIDENCES (IRELAND)
BILL.

Mr. NAPIER moved the second reading of this bill,
the object of which was to improve the law with respect
to ecclesiastical residences in Ireland, which at the pt e-
sent time was in a most unsatisfactory state. The bill
was urgently called for by the clergy, who complained
of the injustice inflicted on them, by being compelled to
pay more than their fair share for the repairs of their
re sidences, after theyhad been condemned by the proper
authorities. If the house consented to the second read-
ing of the bill, he did not intend to proceed with it until
after Easter, by which time the bill would be printed,
and in the hands of members.
Sir G. GREY bad no objection to the second reading.
He thought the hon. gentleman had adopted a wise
course in not proceeding with the bill until after Easter.
The bill was then read a second time.
CHURCHES (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. NAPIER moved the second reading of this
bill, which was to provide churchyards to certain
churches in Ireland. He intended to adopt a similar
course with this bill as the former one.
The bill was read a second time.
CHURCH RATE ABOLITION BILL.
Sir J. TRELAWNEY, in moving the second read-
ing of this bill, said he regretted that the conduct of
the bill had not fallen into abler hands. He trusted
that in the discussion which was likely to ensue they
would be influenced solely by argument. It had been
generally thought that church rates were a tax on pro-
perty, but he had consulted with a gentleman of great
legal knowledge, and it was his opinion that church
rates generally could not be considered a tax on pro-
perty. Then, again, the law with respect to the
levying a rate was in an extremely unsatisfactory state,
there being no less than five objections to the form of
levying a rate, which might all be urged in the ecclesi-
astical courts, and such being the case he thought that
neither Churchmennor Dissenters wished to see the present
unsatisfactory state of the law longer continued. The
hon. gentleman then referred to the Braintree case, and
detailed the different appeals and re-appeals which cha-
racterised the whole of the law proceedings connected
with that case, and contended that the present state of
the law urgently called for amendment. He thought
that all parties anxiously wished that the present nn-
seeaaly contests should cease, and that there should be
an end put to these disgraceful discussions. Certain
vestries, where stormy debates bad taken place with
respect to-levying church rates, and also whether they
should be expended in such items as washing the clergy.
man's surplice, or whether there should be two or three
bottles of sacramental wine. (Rear.) If the voluntary
principle was adopted there need be no fear that
churches would fall into repair. The system bad been
tried in the borough in which he represented
the happiest effect. The church there needed repairs,
and be knew a gentleman, a dissenter,
who gave 251,
towards that object, and a sum sufficient haring been
raised the repairs were carried out, and the church was
now one of the handsomest buildings in the country. No
one thought of asking for a churoh rate in Tavistock—
the idea was quite exploded. (Hoar.) The principle of
the abolition of church rates had been already adopted
in Ireland by the abolition of ministers' money. (Hear.)
Last year the noble lord promised to bring
for ward a
bill, but this year he wound adeputation round his finger
and dismissed them without any answer. Then,
while the doors of the church
were grudgingly and
illiberally shut, the dissenters threw open the
chapels and invited all to eater. 'The cathedrals
had lately been thrown open, but it was
exceedingly
difficult to erase from the minds of the working-classes
their struggles with the beadle for a small space of cold
stone. He thought that the churches ought 0 open
every day, that short services should be read, alld that
religion should be made an every day thing, instead of,
as now, being reserved exclusively for Sundays,- (Rear,
twoouidldiomnost
wbehiccohnfisvneerde
hear.) Such being the case,
the working classes
private life. (Rear b
' ear.) He thought that if the
iv
churches were opened as he had mentioned, and facilities
were gen to the working classes to visit the parks
foervear y numberdnbroofkehnoutrehrloisotgehninigo
and museums on the Sunday after the services, a
great deal more would be done towards extending the
influence of the Church than had ever before been ac-
complished. The hon. gentleman having
again urged
on the house to put an end to the heartbureings between
churchmen and dissenters by abolishing church rates,
the second re
resumed his seat by movingading of the
bill.

Gen. THOMPSON seconded the motion, although he
looked upon the present bill merely as a feeler to try the
power of public opinion, as it contained no provision for
the pecuniary loss which would be entailed en the Esta-
bli.hed Church. He thought the deficienc.T
should be
made good by the imposition of I d tax.
Lord ROBERT CECIL opposeda
the motion, and
moved that the bill be read a seoond time that day six
a il
months.
and The noble lord, at some length, stated his
Church
reasons,
of England should said he thought
belt extremely hard that the
firsfirst
contributionsblo
vr
t,::
wapanrdd
st that be
nthe
g looked
uponrevenues
thio
called u on to collect her
Church from the State,
Sir A. ELTON thought that the abolition of church
h by
bill voluntary
a s
the
rates would be attended with the best possible results,
but he did not wish to see them abolished without sonic
of the
remedy
being afforded by the State towards the repairs
chnech. He thought the same plan adopted by
jealousy, hearth •
the State towards schools should be extended to the
"horrible question of church rates,
church. (Hear, hear.)
oar tme do t
itohne
payment of which was most obnoxious,
Mr. E. BALL said he did net think there was a single
else to keep urning,
aatq
hnnu
edde dedd:ii omds
gnpmuustolths:oeatr
thanys ceased
the,,
anything
up bitterness
between dissenters and churchmen, Ile cordially sup-
amendment.
ported the bill.
for the aboli-
tion of the established church, and complained of the
"sneaking and petty larcenous" manner ill which its
HeMlor.okHed uppiotnUtliheisim°eNaDsurenapsp
opponents were trying to effect their ohject. He trusted
the house would reject the bill.
Lord STANLEY thought the noble lord who moved
the amendments had gone too far in matting forth the
rights of a majority. It was the first time he had ever
heard that a majority could do no wrong, Re appre
beaded the rule of Government was that the majority
were entitled to tax the whole for the benefit of thewhole.
The noble lord bad quoted a return showing how man.
parishes had accepted church rates, and how email many
number had refused, but he had entirely passed over an
important item in the statemeJt. The return which he
bad quoted included only where the rate had been re-
fused. A refu.al must be preceded by a demand, and the
noble lord had passed over the large and increasing num-
ber of places where no rate had been denianded, beoau,e
it was well known it would be refused. Considering
the present law was untenable, he had no choice lett but
to support the bill.
Sir G. GREY said he could not agree to the abolition
of church rates without an equivalent, nor could he
oppose the bill on the ground stated by the noble lord
who moved the amendment. What he suggested
as a compromise on a former occasion he now
again urged—namely, that they should recognise
the abolition of church rates, wherever they had been
abolished for a certain time by the inhabitants, and that
they should relieve the individual consciences of those
who differed with the Established Church, by exempting
them from payment of church rates, but at the same tivae
they should not be allowed to have seats in the vestry,
nor take part in any ecclesiastical business. He
also suggested that landowners should charge
their eetates to a limited amount to church rates.
Under the circumstances he should feel it bia duty to