The Sun.
London, England, 1804-03-28 00:00:00

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IMPERML PARLIAMENT-

ROUSE OF PEERS,

TUESDAY, MARCH 27.
THE Bills upon the Table were forwarded in

their respeftive stages.
Lord ELIOT was sworn and took his Seat, on his
accession to the Peerage by the demise of his father,

he late Lord.

A few Private fills were brought up from the
Commons, by Mr. LiVtELLES and other Gen-

lercen,
An Account of the Salaries, Pensions, &c. paid

by order of the Irish Government at par, within a
given periodl were, in pursuance of a former Mo-
tion of Lord KING, laid before the House. And
the same were, on the Motion of the Noble Lard,

immediately ordered to be printed.
On :I>e IVtation of Lord AUCKLAND, a Committee
of their Lord hips was appointed to inquire into
the best means of lighting and' warming the House,
improving, the Passages thereto, and the Aceomrao.
cations of the LORD CHANCELLOR and other Offi-
cers of the House.

VOLUNTEER 131 U.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of

this Bill being read,
Lord HAWKESBURY rose, and in a Speech of
considerable length, delivered his sentiments upon
the measure. He set out with calling the attention
of their Lordships to what had transpired last Session
upon the subjed, and the measures adopted by the
Legislature thereon, and on which the present Bill
was founded. In discussing the subjett, they were
to consider the Volunteer Force merely in a relative
point of view. With regard to the point which
'had been so repeatedly urged, that His Majesty's
Government depended chiefly upon the Volunteer
Force for the defence of the Country, he must de..
cidedly protest against it. The first general mode
of Defence, which they relied upon, was the rege.
lar established Military Force of the Countiy.
In viewing the state and prep,ration of this at pre-
Sent, he would have to look comparatively at what
it was in former periods of equal or nearly similar
urgency ; not in an invidious point of view, but
merelyao apprize their Lordships of the real fans cf
the case. There were at present not less than
xBo,ooo Regular Troop in the United Kingdom.
The Volunteer Force, however, for general service,
thotigh it might fall short of this, was, he contended,
in Sortie points of view, more efficacious than any
other speCies of defensive force; it was intended to
gt, in general, as a Suloidiary Force. In this part
of his discussion, the Noble Lord took a view of the
comparative advantages and disadvantages which the
invaders and the invaded possessed ; one permanent
advantage and great superiority which the latter had
over the former was, that they could have an armed
Nation at their side, the manifold advantages of
which could be more easily conceived than de-
scribed. With regard to the known and esta-
blished prerogative of the Crown, to call upon
all the liege subjeda of the realm to come for-
ward and arm in defence thereof, in case of amual
invasion, it certainly was a consobtory and impor-
tant consideration; but the difficulty lay in rendering
the force thus acquiredadeqoately successful without
previous preparation. This principle G•vernment
had in view when they proposed legislative mea-
sures for arraying the national defence, and divid.
ing the effedite population of the Country into
distinft classes, which could be regularly recurred
to, as the exigency should require. At the same
time, with reference to measures conneled with
that under consideration, a suspending poWer was
Vested. in the Crown, on such occasions, as a cer-
tain proportionate number of Volunteers should
come forward in different parts of the Kingdom.
This species of force, being deemed upon the whole
as decidedly preferable to the other, which it was
felt would be produnive of numerous inconveniences
to individuals, it was thought best to take ad.
vantage of that zeal and patriotic ardour which the
Volunteers manifested in freely coming forward in
defence of their Country ; and under those con-
siderations-, wherever a certain prOportion of Vo.
lunteers' were embodied, it was held unnecessary to
carry the general Defence An into execution. The
number. of Volunteers at pretient in Great Britain
alone, fell, he was happy to inform the House,
little short of 330,000. A force of this immense
number, was-in itself not only of the highest im-
portance, and an acquisition, the advantages of which
were almost incalculable ; taut it must necessarily
be supposed to consist of such a variety of materials,
and to involve so -many various considerations, that
the ground for astonishment fairly was,' that sw few
difficulties were found to iniervene in its otganiza.
tion and advance to its present state of discipline
and efficacy. He then adverted to the idea of the
utility' of an Armed Peasantry, which had been in-
sisted upon by some as so far preferable, as to jus-
tify- the cancelling and disorganizing that part of
the National Force then under consideration. He
was aware, that in some circumstances and situations,
an Armed Peasantry may be used with effed : but it
was held a matter of great dote in some of the
most respelable Military Opinions in the Country,
whether a force of that description were best cal-
culated for a contest of the nature of that in which
we were embarked, and whether in all its different
bearings and relations the force to which the Bill
before their Lordships refe'rred was not far preferable.
With respea to the contest generally speaking in
which we arc engaged, the wisest policy, especially
With refereneeto the measure under consideration,
would be to consider it as likely to be protrated,
and to the force in question, as cne of which we
could avail ourselves at any future period.—
Upon these general grounds, the vitem of regu.

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TPRIC2. socrENcki-,

latiOnS which the Bill went to enai,
thought; be the most advisable. The cons -ier.o ion of
diseipiine should not be ptrshele to that extent. as to
render it inconvenient or harrassing to
or to interfere too much with their private oe civil
concerns. It hadbec.n„coptentied that a third or a
fourth part of the present perfedly and re_
gularly disciplined and trained, teould be preferable
to the greater number moderately disciplined, and
less trained to the use of arms ; but this was very
questionable. To take it in every point of view, in
his estimation, the system which the Bill went to
sanction, was decidedly preferable. He then adverted
to some prominent regulations in the Bill, and ex-
pressed his opinion, that it was fair and proper that the
conditions upon which the Volunteers entered, shinild
be scrupulously fulfilled on the part of Government,
and-such it was certainly intended to do. With re-
speet to the idea held out of the right of Volunteers
to eled their own Officers, nothing, he obszrved, itt
the Ads alluded to, tended to countenance such a
position :—the right in the case before them, was
as absolutely and incontcovertibly, vested in the*
Crown, as was its right in every description of
military force: the language of the Ads. was, that
the Officers should be persons holding Commis. •
sions from His Majesty, which clearly implied
a discretionary power in the Crown. The Noble
Secretary then proceeded to describe regularly the
substance of the Clauses and Previsions of the
(which being already known to our readers, it is un..
necessary to repeat them.) He admitted the measure
unavoidably involved some anomalizs, which were in,
separable from a system of such a various a, d exten-
sive nature. It was, however, important, in view.,
ing the subject before them, their Lordships should
bear in mind, that when in case of Invasioo any
part of those Volunteer Forces was ca!led out,
they were subject to the provisions of the Ma,
tiny Bill and to Martial Law, which. would ,e •
for the time, to perfect their efficacy, and to assimf,
late them to the Regular Troops. Drawing to a cmn.
elusion, his Lordship spoke in terms of time higoest
satisfaction of the powerful M;litary force hich
the exertions and policy ot His Majesty's G •vern.
ment had established in the Coturv, and which
would be found on a comoarison with that any
former period to he numerous and effedive b.yond.
alt former example. He instanced the caseof the
year 1798, when these islarids, he said, were held
to be in danger of invasion, the Government of that
day boasted their accumulated force of 250.000 men.
At the present period there were ready ...meet the
attack no fewer than 4.50,000 men in arms. -The
real question, hlwever, he admitted was n t whcl.er -
comparatively more or less had been don',, bat,
whether enough hail been
.done towar4perf.cting
the national means. of defence. He had pointedly
to urge the adoption of those regulations provided
by the present Bill 1,,,r the Volo-tenr -fore' of the
Country. He concluded .by moving, that the Bill
be now read a second time.

On the Question being put,.
The Eatl of CARNARVON rose, and me.le a
variety of observations upon the suhjeo. He en-
tertained no doubt of the spirit and patriotism of
his countrymen, and the indignatitin which ;they
would feel. at their Invaders ; but he greatly doubt.
ed, whether the most proper or (ff:etual 'torn had
been given to that spirit by His Majesty's
and especially in the a s e of the present Bill. The
greater part of the Noble EaWs observations, re-
speded the existence of the Royal Prerogative, as
asserted in the preamble of the measure in question.
His opinion was in the negative ; and this upon a
topic of such delicacy and imoortance, was• 00t, he
said, lightly advanced, but was the result of the
inquiries lie had made upon the point, and he should
he glad to hear stated the grounds loon which the
assertion alluded to, proceeded. He animadverted
upon the Legislative Measures proposed by Mi_
nisters last Session for the Defence of the Coun-
try,- particularly that called the Defence A..-t,
the operation, if not the objet}, of which was to
oblige the people to come forward as Volunteers.
With regard to their conduit respeding this de-
scription of force, he spoke in terms of strong dis-
approbation, particularly the provision allowing an
unlimited power of resignation, and at any pet nod,
which so far would leave the Country at their
• mercy, as they might, were they inclined, resign
on the eve of the danger ; what the consequencs of
such a possible contingency may be, were easily
conceived. Recurring again to the consideration
of the Royal Prerogative, as asserted by the Defence
Bill, and the unlimited powers it vested thereby in
Government to call out the inhabitants of the Coun-
try of all ranks and descriptions, from the Prince
of Wales down to .the lowest of the peasantry, he
spoke in terms of disapprobation; and in contending
for his original proposition, with .resoed to the le-
gality of such a Prerogative, he alluded to sum:
documents drawn from early periods of the English
History, which he argued bore him out in what he
advanced. He repe.oed his objections to the un.
qualified power of resignation, which seemed to
constitute his principal objection to the Bid, and
which induced him to object to its second reading.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH rose, in consetm,ce
of some points 'which had (alien from the Noble
Earl, and spoke at some length with a considerable
degree of warmth and animation. He expressed his
surprise at what had been advanced With re-peel to
a known, esablished, and undoubted Prer :gative of
the Crown, and the more as it was stated to be the
result of some inquiry upon the point., No one of
the Royal Prerogatives was more clearly knOwn or
established than the right of the Soverenio to cal
for the military services of all his liege Subjects in
case of Invasion. It was one of the best ,ecutoing
of the Subject, and therefore the duty of the So_
vereign to at upon it in all cases of emergency ;

the position, that such a Prerogative' was unfound-
ed, was of the most dangerous tendency—it tended
to the consideration, that, so far the Crown could
not he relied upon ; but he was surprised that the
Noble Earl, in the course of his,inquiries upon the
subjeEt, should have overlooked some of the most
familiar Books upon the Law and Constitution of
the Country ; in many of these it would Stare him in
the face, in almost every page ; arid further, it was
repeatedly established In the Statute Law of the
Land. - The Noble and. Learned Lord proceeded to
refer to various authorities and documents in illus-
tration and proof of what he laid down. Among
these a Coruinision issued in the reign. of Henry V.
Wa's the first dwelt Upon. He had then in his pos-
session the commission of Array'," which was one of
the authorities referred to:by the. Noble &ad, the
'prerogative in question involved not only a bounden
duty on the Crown,' but it was impossible it could
Constitutionally discharge its fundions without such
pouters. He again recurred' to his authorities, which
wel':e 'drawn from the. Statutes of the Realm. He re-
ferred to the 13th Of Edward VI. and to other Atis;
the provisions of which,.. as to the regulations im-
.posed upon the subjea, all' recognised and pro-
ceeded upon the undoubted' Royal Prerogative in
qoestion :—Not.only this, but it was an established
principle in law* This, among other details, he
argued from various other Statutes and Pro
eeedings,_ which took place in the reigns of
Henry- VII. Edward 111., &co; and particu-
larly from the Commission of Array, issued in the
feign of Henry IV. and the provisions of which
continued' in forte ti) the presentoday. This
Prerogative, he shelved; by other authorities, had
been exercised by Soveteigns of England, not only
in cases of Invasi,o'n but afterwards, as a measure
of precaution. He deprecated the idea broached by
the Noble Earl, that all the persons sod called out,
were to be promiscuously embodied and in one masse.
No ; such would be an-abuse of that branch of the
Royal Authority . But should the day ever unfortu-
nately arrive, when it would be necessary to Meet
the Enemy man for man, upon British 'ground-, he
doubted not the zeal, the'spirit, and the patriotism
of even the most dignified in that House would in:
ditce them to come forward, and temporarily to dii-
i,ense with the advantages of their high rank. For
his part, for an individual, , the Sovereign -of the
Country should have what bodily exertions he was
capable of in such an emergency. , The Noble and
Learned Lord continued io argue, referring occa-
sionally to legal and constitutional authorities, that
the SOveftign had an express right to call, in case
of Invasion, for the personal services of everyman
in .the kingdom capable of rendering such service;
there were evidently eases in whiCh such could not
be carried into e; 8, as cases of inability frouvage,
infirtnities, &c. its extension to 'those 'Would be
an abuse of power, and the laws of the, land may be
resorted to' for redress. ,But the -prerogative
question %vas, orte evidently More for the protection
of the People, than it could he either for the hotiour
or the ad v:;ntage of. the Sovereign.i Such a prero.
gative vesting -in the Sovereign power, was not
peculiar to this Country—ln many other States the
praaice obtained, and in that able Writer on the
Law of Nations, Vaud-, it- was .an .that
every Member of Society was bound to defend the
State as. far as he was:capable : -the (Nett of such
a power was the defence of the people, and the print
olphe was recognized, and in cases of necessity aged
u 1 •tano. in all eiVilized societies and political institu-
tions whaever. •

The Ear/ of C4RN,IRVON spoke at considera-
ble le'ogth in eliplana;i!"ln, and referred more c6pi-
.ously •thitt in his original Speech, to authorities
W*;,,!; contended were in support of the ProPo,
adyituced 'by him, respcaing the regal pre.

I,o;d ELLENR•3ROUGH explained.
4.
In the course of the Earl of CAR I,TAR VON'S explan-
ation, he was called to order, first .by the Earl of
...,7:OR row, and secondly by Lord ; and t:.e
relev 3;3- Stafidislg Order was read, by which it ap_
}eared, that on
.any .IN,ltle.Lotd's moving it, the
.140a3e was liable to be. resolved into a Cernmittee,;'
_this., was, in the first instanc.e, referred to ,by the
.Earl of CAP,NA2.VON, who urglithis right as aiPeer,
:to speak twice upon an important suhjeci,.;
Lord ICING delivered -his sentiments generally
to',Dri:the measure before the House. and" censured
tive'Coralu‘t of Ministers with ,respeft to the Vo-
litkteers. The Bill itself, he regarded ai a mass of
inkotogrnity...and absurdities, which he thought to be
the gserierai charafter of all the measures adopted by
D,linisters.apon the subjetl. -The: point of- view in
tx-lich the Bill was that night held ont, was, by no
means a fair- one the injurious effeds of the mea-
ture, as at pre,ent constituted, were kept out of
Sight ; .it had the elf:e't of ,colinteraBing, not only
;e Regulai Army, but the. Militia -Force, ,and-the,
of•Reserve.:—This-ivas principally done by
'rneanscf-the,extmptions; .the Militia,; and the Army
Qf Rei-e;.rvealso, in .a great degree, cnunteratted each
7 °did; In proof of the Volunteer System materially
ihe recruiting service, he referred to the
- state arirecruiting in these -parts of the Kingdom•
where the Volunteers were proportionably the most
,:.I,ultierous, as in Kent, Surrey, end the Metropolis.
'With respea to the Bill, he repeated, it- Was a
'mass of'• incongruity—every, separate part was jar-
Akith the other, and the whole was in. the
teeth of e.very 'systematic regulation. •
PORING DON -made a few, Observe-
upon the measure in question. Upon the
he regarded it rather. as a matter of indiffe-
rr:nce. whether it pitsSed or 'riot ; some few of its re_
“tiiations,-howeveri were likely to prove beneficial,
and this cr:nSideration' induced him not to objeft to
,econd. reading of the Bill. These parts of the
measure to which he- alluded, should, in order to
ensure their salutary effea, be speedily carried into

The Bishop.qf LAND AFF, without then Mean-
any opinion as to the general condul
t not having sufficient information or
documentary evidence relative to these points, ob-
I served, that the situation in which they were at pre-
,- sent placcd,—was one of unprecedented difficulty.
With,respta to the Bill, the present was not the
proper time to discuss. its 'provisions :—lt was no
longer a .question;.: wheater or not, the Volunteer
4:V.11 1: d 5 hest flJr the Defence of the

Country ; it was a System adopted, and must
now be encouraged and maintained : for his part
he thiiiiglaCthe
.system evinced a most noble and
patriotic.spirit on the part of the People ; the diffi•
culties however of. properly guiding it were great,
yet he hoped- the whole would be successful in its
final operation. Th., system should not now be dis-
couraged or abandoned ; there was nothing in His-
.tory equal-to what Great Britain had to boast of in
its Volunteers ; they were not composed of the
miserable dregs of the Nation, nor of the promiscu-
ous herd of the rabble ; they were on the contrary,
composed of men of rank, of letters, of property, of
farmers, yeomen, tradesmen, of persons all equally
estimable and respeCiable in their respective and se-
veral ranks and degrees, and all equally evinced a
patriotic ardour and .zeal in the cause of their So-
vereign and Country : they were aluated by no
mean or selfish motives ; it was by the generous
spirit of men coming voluntarily forward in
the defence of their.. Country ; their spirit was
not a proud, saucy, or capricious spirit, it was
a spirit of manly patriotism, and such as would
yield to proper rules and regula;ious, and cheer-
fully submit to the restraints of military dia.
cipline.. The Country was' abundant in resources,
and every way capable of meeting the impending
danger. The want of arms, muskets, and other wea-
pons, had been spoken of; were this the case, why
not place under, he would call it requisitionjeall the
GunmakerS, Cuttlers, and Blacksmiths of the Coun-
try, until a sufficient number of firelocks, swords,
and pikes were procured ? Were men wanted ? The
Country had a right to call upon' its population, ac-
cording to the distina clases in which they were ar-
ranged. If horses were wanted, why not put every
serviceable animal of that species in the Country in
requisition, every post and saddle horse, and'train
them for the various purposes of War ? He was
confident none of •his: Noble Auditors would
grudge, did the necessity of the case require it, the
trouble of walking inslead'of riding down to that
House. Did they want Ships ? Why not Culled all
the small Craft, and every Smack upon
.the Coasts
that was fit for service., and prepare them for the
annoyance of the Enemy, should they attempt In-
vasion ? As to the larger Vessels, he hoped our
gallant Admirals and Seamen, would condua, in- the
event of meeting, those of the Enemy into the Ports
of Old England. Was money wanted ? Taxes to
an adequate amount might be levied. The property
of individuals was subservient to the necessities of the
State, to which they were. bound to contribute in
that respea, as well as by their arms.' For his
part, he. would rather trudge through the dreary
wastes of Westmorland, a free silbjea of our li-
mited Monarchy, thin . live in. all the pomp and
luxuries of an abandoned metropolis, under the
tyranny of, Bonapartle's;Governinent. He would
trouble their Lordships It)tat with one word more
He was warmed to the very heart by `the Stibjea of
His J 'S Message of yesterday ;
othepa-
triotic.offers of the Irish Militia ere such as con_
vincedhirn nf the adlian,uggek of the' Union'; both
Countrieawerc but asonarnberarof one.body, where;
if but a part *wits toothed, 'the:whole-was afFeCted.
After a few further obseryatiOns:to this general.
eft-,CI: 'in ;vtii.cli`the Reverend Nerate manifested
his accuStorned talents: and eloquence, he expressed
hi; assent to the Noble Secretary of State's Motion;
The Earl of. DARNLEY made a, variety of. ob.
iservatiOns. upon ;thetomeastite.. under consideration.
He condemoed a great, part of the conduct of Mini.
stern with, fOpett .to. the Volunteer system ;.yet
conceived,, that under the present, `'circumstances
of the' Country, • the Bill .contained •some be-
neficial provisions which ought speedily to •be,
carried into effea. There was little of system,
he observed, in the conduct of Ministers rela-
tive to the suhjea in question; and as to some
points, on which the ideaa of a breach of ;faith
was held
_forth, lie thought it could not well ap.
.ply, when ,the many allowances, . and tire unlimited
_power of Resignation were :considered. . His Lord,
auirnadverted•upon some of the detailed Provi-
sions of :the Bill respecting maintenance and dis-
eiplinee but obaerved, . there were many important
considerations-.connected, with the Bill, which could
more 'regularly 1)e. discussed. in
,the Committee.
Lord .RCEIIaVEY entered into 4 general defence of
:the Volunteer. System, and of.the zeal, ardour, and
courage of those who composed it. He contended
that a force
_bad been raised greater than ever bad
before• been known in this Country ; and, though,
they had certainly not the discipline of.complete Re-
gular Troops, yet, at. the same time, they were,a
description of force which would enable this Coun-
try to look with contempt upon the attacks of the
Enemy. With respea to this Bill, he thought-it
contained many regulations which would tend to im.
pro -ve and meliorate that System ; and, therefore, he'
.should give it his entire support.
The Duke of SoaazitsaT said a few word, bot.
in so low: a tone of voice, that we were unable to
hear his Grace.
Lord..QRENVILLE in a speech of considerable
length Opposed ,the Bill. 'He said it was a_common
subjea of misrepresentation, that those
,who did
not approve of the measures. proposed by- the
nisters for improving. the Volunteer.systein, were
enemies 'to the Volunteers, and, had no reliance upon
their zeal and courage. Nothing could be more
unjust than such an insinuation ; no expression that
had ever fallen from him, or from any of his Noble.
Friends could justify such an assertion. It would
have been most absurd for any man to asset"! that.
among 400,000 Englishmen who voluntarily offered
their. services in support of their Country, that
there
_was a deficiency of courage or patriotism.
Such an assertion never could have dropped from
the lips of any in that House or any where else,
yetthat was the language, or at least the sentiments
always imputed to those who censured the conduit
of Ministers 'with regard to this description of
force. He did not wish to flatter the Volunteers,
because be thought flattery as contemptible when
applied to numbers as when it was applied to in-
dividuals, but he sincerely believed that the Vo-
lunteers were as brave, as zealous, and as loyal a
body of men as ever existed; hut surely it was no
imputation upon their courage,. their zeal, or their
loyalty to say, that His Majesty's Ministers had
adopted nu measuies to guide and dirett that zeal
and courage in the way the most advantagous to
the Country, nay, that they had by obscure, übin.

telligible, and contradiaery measures, done every
thing in their power to damp that courage, and to
check that zeal, which had been so honourably
manifested.—The first great fault which he found
with His Majesty's Ministers was, that in preparing
and forming the Military Force of this Country to
meet the most formidable attack with which any
Country was ever threatened, they had never aced
upon-one system ; they had never considered-it as- a
whole,and combined their plans so as not to counteraCt
arid obstruct each other, but that they had taken up
every part of our military force one by one, without
any reference to each other ; the natural conse-
quence of which was, that system of confusion, per-
plexity-, and contradidion, in which they were now
involved. In proof of this assertion, he begged
their Lordships to advert to the mode 'of proceeding
which had been adopted. Their first plan was to
fill up the old Militia, which of course could only be
done by ballot ; before this measure could be accom-
plished, before the.ballot was finished in some places,
and before it was begun in others, they proceeded to
raise the Sopplementary Militia, which was also to
be done by ballot ; without waiting till this force
could be compleated, they immediately proceeded
to raise the Army of Reserve, and this also was to
be-done by ballot; and then, as if their objed was
to counteraa their own measures, they passed
a Bill, by which every man who entered into a
Volunteer Corps should be exempted, not only
from •all ballots then subsisting, but from all
future ' ballots that might be enacted by any
future At of Parliament. It was utterly out of
his power to guess upon what principle Mini.
aters atied upon this occasion; the Volunteers did
not claim. these exemptions ; they did not expert
them ; he spoke not from belief, but from expe-
rience upon the subject, because he knew that the
Volunteers who first stood forward, certainly had
no expectation or idea of them. But it had been
urged in defence of Ministers that the Volunteer
System was adopted last war,- and that the Volun-
teers were. exempted from the ballot for the Militia
and Supplementary Militia ; this was certainly_
true, but their Lordships must obserVe one material
distinction between the two cases, which was this
in the last. war the Volunteers were raised and the
Exemptions granted after the Militia and the Stip-
plementary Militia were raised.; in the present
war the Militia, the Supplementary Militia, and
the Army of Reserve were all concomitant
measures with the Volunteer System, and with
the granting' of these ex‘emptions. In the one
case the exemptions could not affect a force already
raised ; in the other they most materially-at:deg
a force to be raisalv The Ministers had,, in faa,
began at theewilsng end, and the consequence was;
that their measures were continually obstructing and
thwarting each other. His Lordship then adverted
to the principle laid down in the Bill, of His Ma-
jesty's Prerogative of calling out' every Man in the
Country, in case cf Invasion. He said, that a
Noble .and Learned Lord (ELLENnoitouo.)"..had
argued at some length iii support of- that Preroga.
tire of the crown, and of that-Clinie of the Bill,
by which it was proposed to carry. that power into
execution, and which vested in His Majesty a
power to place any individual subject. in' the King-
dom in any Regiment •of Regulars -or Militia he
thought proper. The Noble and Learned Lord, in
arguing this extraordinary propolitiont had quoted
Cases from EdWard.the lIId, and Henry the Vtli,
and had even quoted Vattel. He was glad to find
that the Noble Lord now condescetided to quote
from Vaud, and the other Writers on, the Law of
Nations, because be 'remeMbered Non a former oc-
casian the Noble -,Lord had represented them as a
parcel of- antiquated lumber. With all due &le.
rence, however, tb odic' Noble and Learned Lord,
he begged in the •most distinct terms to deny the
proposition laid dOwn -in the Clause of the Bill, and
he would defy:ll4li Other lawyer to produce
a single casein any of the good periods of our his-
tory, wile-Wench a power had been exercised. The
proposition he meant to deny . was this, that the
Crown had7any constitutional right to take any in-
dividual in the Country, and compel him to enter
into any Regiment of the Line or Militia. Could
it be contended that such a right was founded upon
the Feudal System, because the, very laws and usages
which enabled the Sovereign to call for the services of
the vassals; restricted and limited the nature and ex.
tent of thoseservices ? ht was equally impossible to
infer such principle from the Gild Commissions 'of ar-
ray. Such a power as was now auntended for, certainly
existed under the present most arbitrary government
Of France ; but he begged to ask,- with what pro.
priety could the Ministers call upon: the people of
this Country -to stand forward against ; the -attacks
and the principles of France, if they were tobe.tcild
that- they were liable to the most .odiousepart of
• that most odious Government ? that is to say, that .
any individual who was obnoxious to the Ministers
of the Country, might be forced into any Regiment
of the Regulars or the Militia; such a principle was
inconsistent with the principles of the Briti,h Con-
stitution, and yet such was the principle maintained
in this Bill. His Lordship . concluded with ex-
• pressing his most decided disapprobation -of the
present measure.
The LORD CHANCELLOR rose in reply to the
Noble Lord who had just sat down, and began by
defending the principles, laid down by his Noble and
-Learned Friend (Lord ELLENBOROUGH). The
principle laid down in the preamble of the Bill, and
foi which hiS Noble and Learned Friend had con.
tended, was.this,• that His Majesty had by his pre-
rogative, a, right, in case of Invasi,jm,
,to call upon
the services of ail his Liege Subjels. This was a
proposition which he did not exped to have heard
called in question, big as the Noble Lord had ex-
pressed such strong doubts upon the subject, he
:would not give any opinion upon it at present, not
-because he entertained any doubts about it, but be-
cause, upon a subject of such immense importance,
he did not think it consistent with the respect he.
owed their Lordships, to state his. opinion- without
stating all the authorities upon which that opinion
was founded. Some Noble Lords had spoken of
Martial Law, and seemed to consider that Mar.
tiai Law only subsisted under the authority of the
Mutiny Bill; but he begged leave to state, that
they were completely in error upon that subj6a.—.
The Mutiny. 13111 s re-i:ited to the Military Force of.
the Cot ;:try.; but the Martial Las', which. the'

Crown was authorised to proclaim, was founded up )ft.
the Common' Law of the Kingdom. The Question
which their Lordships were then called upon to con-
sider wag, whether this Bill ought or ought not to
go into a Committee now ? Though many Noble
Lords might objea to particular Clauses, yet it
seemed to be the universal opinion of the House,
that many of the Clauses and Regulations were not
only proper, but necessary ; he therefore could not
conceive any objection to suffering the. Bill to go
into a Committee.
Lard G RENrI ELI? said, he had never contended
that the Sovereign had not a right, in case of inva-
sion, to call upon the services of his liege subjects,
because that the King had a right, representing the -
Community, to call, in such.a case of extreme neces-
sity, upon the services of all his subjects for the
public defence, was not only a constitutional
principle, but formed a part of the essence of civil
society. The thing e; hick he objected to was thisr
that this Bill, in carrying this principle into exect!"
tion, gave the Crown a power, not to call upon the
whole or any class of the People, . but upon any in.'
dividual, and to place him in any Regiment of the ,
Line or Militia.

The LORD CHANCELLOR explained.
Lord SPENCER expressed his disapprobation of
the Bill, and said, that Noble Lords seemed t°
argue, that if this Bill was not passed, the w h°l6
Volunteer Force would be dissolved ; but the lig'
lunteets had subsisted without it, and he saw n°'
thing in this Bill that in any degree tended to itli‘
prove this system.
Lord HOB ART entered into a vindication of the,
measures adopted by Administration, with regard
to the Volunteers, and contended, that although r,
was impossible but that some parts,of so co llo'
cated a system might be liable to objeaion ;
upon the whole, there was a force created greater till°.
this Country had ever known, and capable of frustrafr'
ing any attack that could be made upon it. He Cofin;
eluded, by briefly summing up the Force of ttci
Country, which he contended was fully adetica'e,
meet the dangers with which we were threatened'
The Dule of MOIVT ROSE thought it was ~*
possible, without the greatest danger to the C9,°'sti.tution,
stitution, to have a Force equal in number to til;
Volunteers in any other way than by means of suct,,,
Volunteer Service. He was of opinion that tu,
efficient ; he instanced several Corps in Scotlano
Volunteers were capable of being rendered vet/4
which had been declared fit to be brigaded withßegular Troops. He objeaed to the Exempllo°3
is• a part_ of the Volunteer System, but at the same
time he thought that they ought not at the present
moment to be taken away. It was not to he ex".
Peaed that they would perfeft the Volunteer Sys.,
tern in a day, they must make provisions as the net
cessity arose. He trusted that the second reading
of, the Bill would be agreed to Unanimously.
?The Ear/ of TESTMORL AND hoped that those
sues
rii6 which—were considered as strong at'ct
efficient by the late Ministry, would not be cone
tdered as weak and inefficient because
adopted bl;
the present Ministers. He could not perceive al.!!
ihe number of -Volunteers impeded the ballots.i?:
the. Militia and the Army of Reserve, or stood.re
the; way of Reotuiting fur the Regular Army ;
contrary, men who had been accustomed fort m.
trine io handle the inasquet, became the Of
clined.to enter into the Regular Service. sideo
• Lord AUCKLAND- followed on the sat° -;rig
he thought there were some Amendments svant:4-
in the. Bill, but. that the measure itself was VP"
• The Bill was then read a second time. bd
Lord HAWKE,SBURY said, as it seemed t°
thought that the Committee' could not be conve°o
ently gone thrOugh before the Recess, he 911°s_
move that the_ Bill should be committed on Tl'
day se'nnight, which would be the first day ye
meeting after the Recess which he intended to in°
for.
Lord I-JARROW:BY expressed a wish, as vore eta
derstood him, that the Recess should be short
ie:1;
in order to give their Lordships an oprituintiO
of going through a Bill of this importance, wit°
utmost sHAd.peeit f cal;
tailing wastuttlty opposed the idea - o
or;
tailing the intended Recess, as it would be unu9°
ly short. ei 0°
The Bill was then ordered to be comtlutt .
Thursday se'nnight.
Adjourned at half past eleven till to-morrow',

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PI

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
TUESDAY, MARCH 27.
st tfitt
SEVERAL Petitions were presented °gain the
vessels, -
Marine Society Fishery. Bill ; among them
141 lowing : two from the Owners of Fishing i
of
at Gravesend, the one against the prii`c,T„ests
the Bill; the other against some specifid t•-`3l"-eir
• which they. apprehended would materially affe6trtp,
Interest. They were presented by Mr. ""

CRAFTe . en,
Another from the Owners of Vessels, FisberiTlA
&c. of the Town of Harwich, against the uponge
priociples of .the Bill.—Ordered to be tola
d eco°j
, the Table until the Bill should be read second
-••••
time; and Parties to be heard by Counsel; v`c*
wAasno
presentediNoTov.
by Mr'
a of
llr. il.
Pir'A7c:tehde Another y
Petition I\p tlve
iEr to the same eff,..et, from the Fishermen 41
Faversham.—Orchired to be laid On the Table vivo
in
the Bill be read a second timei—Counsel
heard, &c. . i i
Pv ne
Sir \V. GEARY then "moved, that the raar
Society Fishery Bill be now read a second tirne'
. The question being .put, n tlie
Mr. C ALCR AFT opposed the Bill, upo-- h.
merits of which he entered at considerable lengbtic
He said, that a great number of the most vainda at
•and.intlustrious'classes in society were alai this
this 'Bill. He contended, that a measure tt° osef
_nature. ought' not to be entertained by the 1-1°„, of
unless a strong case was made out of the nee or
of
such a'measure, of some..evil to be removed. °I.• g
NOW
sornegreat,advantage to be gained by it. c the
of this. kind was pretended : the advocates ni'i to
Bill hkl not held forth any advantage ciOca ld
had hot held
be derived from
the measure: they , w
forth any expettation to the Public that fiso of
be cheaper after this Bill was passed than if eras be
et f it, f':E,,
present ; ?tor could that be the effe- otb•iiipe..vatc
4.;F:derttood that fish was altev,dy sQld at 0,4- v,
•
.

.

I
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