The Sun.
London, England, 1803-07-23 00:00:00

IC

your attption to such an immense eittent 0 ,eav,
c
things must lumen, unless you flail an enormous hire
i:,:ttsigealit ti:inedliiialero!.ow,act art;dtestxme
l:nntto7ctead:
a.t
r: Whileol.lco you
were t,to
v,
t)
my indeed, viz, you ire!st either Coneenter your
Army at. some point equally distant from all,the pro:
'bible points of attack, or else
_it 'Must he fritteved
' away in small detachments, to be ready ,to oppose
the danger Wherever
,it might occur, The olsjed
of the Proposition made-by the pon. Officer was to
avoid this. inconvenience; 'it would, 'in the first
placee afford the means of obstruttting the Enemy
on, his landing, and also of obsqueling his subse-
quent progress. This Watt. the teal meaning of the
Ilan of Fortificir ions whirls had been suggested, not
1 the fdolish notion s';f buildirtg a Wall all round Eng..
land.- By the adoption.,f. this measore moat danger
- would be avoided, andGovermnent would skew that
while the People LI England were desirous, not to be
spared in the. necessary contest in WhiCh they were
obliged to engage, the Goverment were on the
other hand anxious not to make an unnecessary use of
. that courage, which, w hilts they applauded and ad.
• mired, they should at the same time manage and
spare. The third °Nett to which tile lion. Officer
alluded'. Was
.a at of employing fortifications en .t!se
7 . line of, internal defence.: this rested upon so. plain
a principle, that although it tniep require Military
knowledge to state it withprecision, it moulted only
the plainest common sense to see the advahrage of
the measure. lie really had many apologies to
make for trespassing upon time House Upon these
points; he would only make a few observations upon
the +th propaition of the• Hon. Officer, and the
comtnents that had been made upon it by his Right
lion; Friend the SEC R iTAR v at WAR. The manly
feelings, of his Right Hon.,Friend, and if he might
add,- the expression 'of his. obstinate- prejudice in
Emvotir of his own Country, would not -suffer him
to believe that the French would offer such -an insult
to the People ofEogland, is to fight.onEeglish ground
for the Capital. He certainly Was
.one
,of the
last men living who would detract from the merits
of the. Navy, or who would be inclined to place lesi
confidence in them than they deserved. He was as
little disposed to think lightly of the Army, or of
the spirit and exertions of time Peop*..of England.
He had no doubt, they would render. Us invulnerable.
Bu•t• still there trete possible accidents depending
even upon a day, which, would counteran the best
conceived, Plan of Defence, and by which the bravest
and most numerous Army ,might he baled. The
•• Enemy might hazard an operation for which a
General in our service cyanid he brtikeor shot, but
which the Frenelt General would hazard, because he
knew if lie did not litt.rtipt it he would be broke
or shol:'""TiliwZvet Mad such an attempt would tip.
.rr tirttco,ointtal.;.t.peispme it would not appear so to the
illat proud Despot, while trembling
on his usurped til•rooe, svotod feel but little con:
cern fur having sacrificed uOO.OOO Frenchmen,
ah&stili less would he feet for millions of English.
men, it lie had thorn 'within his grasp. They were
iliereldret in :trilling upon their safety, not to
. he-satisfied by probabilities. It was not enough
tor us to know iliac the Fito4 Csmsul was eecentric
' and mad, to justify Ili in tiegledieg any practicable
means of deteoce. . Ile would doubtless in time pay
the price of that madness, but we must take care
-that we did out pay for it first. .We ought,
theter'res not now, to disdain precautions which
formerly were not Considered 'as necessary. He
therefore could not agree in that; short and decisive
answer given by thteSECRETAKY at WAR .to the
Hon. Officer, in which he declared he would not
fortify London while we had suds a Navy and
..Army. In the first place;. with regard to the Navy,
we must retolleethow large a part of it was in very
_distant stations. But even-if we had all our Navy
at home, he could conceive Sittlalthlfli in which Ships
of the Line or Frigates would not be sufficient to
• i •
ntercept all . that innumerable Flotilla that would
issue. at once from the Ports of France, . and
which would coyer leagues of the sea. If in.
deed the Navy. was quite sufficient for this bur.
pose, then where , was the necessity of this ?
because if the Navy Would-not suffer the Eoemy•
to land, there certainly would be ni).
,occasion to.
fight them on shore. Nothing appeared to him so
absurd as to argue upon what we (night to do, from'
what our ancestors have done, -1 he present state
of this Country, was not to be compared with its
condition at
,any former petiod. Even at the time
of the Armada,' Queen Elizabeth only colleted
.140,0ta0 men ; now the Regular Army was almost-
as numerous, and wee found it • necessary to arm,
in'additinn 3 or 400,0e50 men. , The times were
changed, the 'system of war was changed, atiti
were' they to ,be told that because they had .not .
Fortifications , formerly, that they ought not to
have any Fortifications now ? It might be as well
said, that because, men :fought with arrows and
lances formerly, that they 'ought now' to oppose
them to heavy artillery and Musketry. But it was
a very great historical error to say, that our an-
cestors in :England, but partitularly • in- Ireland, ;
did -not constriett great numbers. of Portsigeati.
,ons, lunch more numerous than any it was now
proposed to eree4. With regard to the Fotti.
tication of the Capital,' unless iz ' would surpass
the powers of- the Country to accomplish it e if it
could add to our reasonable security, in his .epinion
it ought to be done. Here again the Hon. Officer
did nor, he supposed, -mean that London •was to be
encompassed coMpletely With a Fortification. He
'supposed he meant that.proper advantage should be
mede of that great natural barrier which was capable
Of rendering it stranger than almost any Other Capi.
cal in Europe. The-great error tharGentlemen-ran in-
- to upon this Subjett„ was that of making no difference
between Regular -Fortifications Alla , Field Fortittea.
tions., It was not prOposed to "comma works like
those of Lisle or TOOtllny, Which could not be taken-
till after a regular siege,but if we could by throwing
up these works delay the progress of the Enemy .;
for two or three days, or. .a week, it might make
the difference betweenethe safety and the destruc. '
titin of the Capital.- It was known to His Ma.
jeStyab pll.:Cilt Ministers that this system was in ,
eutatlnplittico, that a plan was d:a wn out which chi.
feted in very feW particulars indeed from the-state-
ment which had been made by the:Hon.. OffiCere-,
The Plan was digested, tint! accompanied with a mi.
note-survey, and the Works were Mutiny traced by.
General Dundas, It was not suggetcd by any waist

of cooklenr.,e ;he the em be the
pie Of ihiS CoUntry, hut was founded Lißcu th isprin.
ctplei that while Weset no liinits to !he e.kt':itions of
the People', oh the, other hand, that every means
should be employed to diminish tWdanger, to mike
the'tontest as short as it was possible, and to prevent
that horror, 'Misery and devastazioo which this
C,,untrytnOtexperiencefroM a more protraaed war.
fare, even though we should be ultimately suecessfu!:
tngland must loek at this ai a contest from which,
L?v.the eittraordinary favour'of Providence, we have
beeh so long exempted ; and if we were at length
called upon to enter into it, we ought tO•meet it vitlt
just gratitude, proportionate to the length,of time
we eujnyed the exemptioM elle. more this.Silhjed
was discuSsedil. the more it was ithpressed upon
his mind; that nothing hut. a 'tide sense of the
mag'tude of our danger, :anda proper view of the'
means of the Country, could bring us to that temper
of mind which was calculated to produce just c•Jt.
fidence, which neither desPised nor dreaded danger.
It would only'4emaiti to exeente' me
asures
that the
that had. been adopted, to, take care that Govern.
ment employed the means with which it was vested
to the best advantage, that the kegular Army be
as high as passible, that the Militia be kept'entire,
and unbroken in. spirit, and the Auxiliary FOree be
as prditiptly raised and disciplined as the nature of
things would admit of, that nothing should be
omitted that military skill, could suggest, to render
success more certain, and the Contest shorter.
If there existed the same disposition GoVern.:
ment to apply'the means with which thy were en.:
trusted, that Parliatherit had shown in giving them ;
if the Nation was inclined to follOw up that spirit
of which Patliament Mind yet the.exaMple; and of
which there was every day fresh proofs arhong
the People, then 'the Country was safe, ,a 4 he
should not be considered as sanguine, when he
said.that this contest Was sure of being teminat.
ed to the eternal glory of this Country, and to the
shame and confusion -of the 'Enemy ;
,that it would
open the only dbor to-animate the spirits, to revive
the courage, to' break the lethargy of the surround.
kg Nations. He was sure that a French Army
that invaded these ,Coasts would tieviir again revisit
the shores of France,' or. that if it did it would only
be to find alining the People ofithe Continent a re-
viving spirit,
.thas.would induce them to retaliate
upon France all the-oppressions which had protecd.
ed frOm that wretched fabric, fbuntled upon the pro,
stitution of Liberty, which had reduced the People
of France to a' state of wretchedness and slavery, and
which had produced greater scenes of'oareision and
injustice against the. surrounding Nations, than the
history of mankind ever affolded an example of.

Pecs.

I The SEC B.I:TARY a. t WAR, in explanation, said,
that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pm) had mis.
coneeived what he had observed with respeti to, the
remarks t 4 the Hon. Officer (Col. CRAW ram)) on the
' subject of fortifying the Coast and I.ondon. It was
his private opinion that the System of Fortification
• adverted to by the Hon; Officer had not been carried,
to that extent in this Country to which it might to
have been carried, His, opinion, howeVer, went'
more particularly to the propriety of, taking the
steps advisetkat the pretent moment 'rather than to
the general poliey of the measure. ' With respect
to the'llattalions formed out of the Army of Re.
serve, the Plan attled upon had' been sanetioned by
the best Military Authorities;. and so far as he was
concerned, had his approbation. Jr was tp ,he ob.
served, at the same time, that the other Regiments,
besides those he had alluded to, would afford their
aid to the formation of the Battalions of Reserve.
'with respect to the training of the new Levies,-
measures had been taken to call upon all Serjeants
who were capable of 'such a duty, above 3000 had
been. already provided,. and a 'much greater number
had appeared to tender their exertions fur the same
service. . . , , ..
Ms. COV RTEN AY said, :that . if the utility of
the ideas suggested by the lion. Officer (Colonel`
CRAWFORD) wanted any confirmation, they had ob.
mined it from the eloquent and -masterly Speech of
theißight lion. Gentleman (Mr.Ptre).. That Right
!lon. Gentleman had .shewo that, the plan of defence.
with fespeet to the objects alluded to in this De-
bate, were in possession of,Government, but not a
single idea with eespeet to,ithat std,jed.bad been
1., acted upon. The ideas suggested by the Hon.Of-
fleet bad previouslx.received,a confirmation' in that
HOuse from the opinion:of General Lars 0x,.. who
was Certainly as perfectly capable as any one to form
a correct
Gen
upon the tibjett. The Right
Hon. Gentleman ( the Ss ca c VARY eitAVA4) had fri..,
dictded the idea Of defending London, but the,Right
lion. Gentleman under the GAllery (Mr. Pt rT) had.
stated a very jest opiniOn upon...th4subjed. ;The
fortifying of London bad indeed been done aleeady
in the Civil Wars between Charls 'I. anti His Par.
liament; anti when the, Duke of Brunswick was on
his march to Paris, the Inhabitants of that Capital ex..
ertedthemselves in every possible way to throw up not
regular fintifications`hut field redoubts to check, his,
progress.. He saw no reason why the fortification of
Linnitio should not now he proceeded upon,it had been
santliOned by ate opinion of the best MiliraryOffieers.
Former times.badbeen,recurred to by the-Rt. lion.
Gentleman (the SECRETATY. at Wmt) but it should
be, recollected that the urgency of the tiwes was '
now ten times Mute pressing, and thelorce of France
ten tunes greater. With jeave4 to the Army Of
Reserve, he had understood that the Regular keg. -
merits were to be completed before any now B;tha.
liOns were formed; but from what hatl been said by
the 'Right Hun. Gentleman, (the Sec a ETAar at
WAIL) he woold ask if the skeletons
.of Regiments
were to remain whilst the Army of Reserve was to
be tortned into now Batt4lions (the SE6R F.TARY at
WAlt answered across the TohltkqM)).• Then were
the old Regiments to be completed, he would ask,
before new _Battalions were form:d out of "the Army
,of Reserve ? (the SeCa STARA' at WAR. answci.ed in
:the saute manner, Yes)„ Mr. CouturcNAY cx.
l'ireiieLl himself satisfied with this explanatioo.
The Representatives 'of the People had, he sdid,
done their duty in putting a great machine in mo.
'lion, it only wanted animation. fie wished that the
Pe.ntle might be able to liiok up with confidence
to the skill and eXperienCe of a Military "Council,
CoMposed ,of Offieets, such as Lord ', Grey, LOrd
Howe, Lord Cornwallis, and, other,-,equally dis,
tinguished men, who bad often-led- the Britith '
Troops to viaUry . and glory. Measures of the ut.

I •
tunsf iniplrtince '1;;:d bCCn 4
Hon; (Co:6)nrl CR Av.' I, it the P;,.;.kti.
Hon. Gentleman-011e r-i ) 1. had
not been
,totiilly omitted, but had :lit); et.et bten
begun upon
Captain 11/Mr& Said a sVottis With tespen
to the prohataity Of Inva,.fo!!, a, tillutred tO 1.));
ilatiouriibie Officer (Colonel CaAw n).did
not Cont.eive' it pra6i,..:able, which opine in hi.
was sanctioned, .Ire said"- by that of several Nay.ll
Officers, that the Pnemy could einbatk 2sckor too',6a
Oki t ran, pot. t them hither and disemoaik
them in the course of twelve (ours.
Calonei WOOD stated, that there had been this
day a Meeting of the Lieutenancy of the Coulty.
of Surrey, in which the whole Plan rot the 1),1e4o
of the City of,London had Wen bronght forward iiy
the Officer commanding the Distria, and commente.l
upon with' the greatest ablity. The Right 1-1„m.
Gentleman (Mr. Prr-r) had alltuftd to the fl.s-irt
of Elizabeth, but had forgot to notice Ow
titrifs issued/by her to her, Lientena n to
assemble a7Military'Couneil, cOmpotied of most
able and` effeCtive r.rder, that ihe most
able Plans might be suggested fir the crefenee of
the country., If such a Plan was deerti7d necessary
at that time, when Miiitary Science was compara.
tively, in its, infancy, how initcli more was it •neces.
sary at present? lie agreed' with the Right Hon.
Gentleman (the SECA t:TAR.Y AT WAR) with re.yeCt
to the propriety of arming those melt of the new,
I,evies with !tikes, for whom imps of anoth,r ,
scrip! ion would not be fottod ; such a farce, added to
a small ntuntor of Rogular 71!roops, ssint6l be lonia
of the most essential service in the case of lov'ation:
With respen to the stibjol of Fllt:ll.:ati6o, as al•
bided to by the Hon..otll:er,(Coi. CRAVti•otto), it
Was certainly true that-there was not time fur eon..
stritaing new Batteri4s; as it .wasAtighly probable ,
ihey could 'not be finished in time, acid if so they
bad, bettertiOt be'ltgun at .
IYIND "MAI 5',1,1 he !loved the splendid .
elorreoce of
,his 'Right Hone Friend (Mr. OtTor)
would !Pave its etieCt itt rousing that in:tnl)'.. fortitude '
which grew ttift of the steady cov,templation of the
danger. Exhautited as the House Was
however, upon . th 4 subjeti, lid must 'detain them
with a few opinions. advice given by the
Officer (COI; Ott Aw Fo n) had not km•
treated in the most kindly manner by the Right
Hon.
,Gentleman (the. SECRETARY• at WAAL; hot
whatever .the opinkttis of. the I kit. Qiiker were, he
wished to share in them,. as he had statt!d on a fir.
met' night, or at least meant to state the'stne"dpi,....
niont. He thought thin a Military Collodi Ought.
to be assembled„ Ile should be ext remely sorry if,
in urging this measure, it should be considered to
be ;any 017ttlion upon the Illltstritaus Person at
the head of the Arniv, but he could nit conch:
der it as any re fizEtintl‘ 111,,ni the ChAroaer of
that' Illustrious Person, that he c,,uld rot dis-
patch a quantity of business which no man was
equal to. -Without -the least
,refl::tinn ihe
charafter of that Blustrious Petson, lie thon,!ht :there,
was a strong call for the assembling of a
Council. It •was no answer tri say that there wqs
a depaitment in the Quarter-MaStetGen,eral's Q
lice immediately appropriated to receive the ,
alluded to by the Hunburable Officer. He wlq •
.happy to bear testimony to the gallantry of the
Officer who held a distinguished situation in that
Office, and he was glad that the prrjudice a,:aiost
Foreign 'Officers being employed in the Service 4
this Country was in sonic measure: overeotne. fle
hoped that' distinguished Officers in Foreign Service
would not be prevented from corning forward in sup.
port of what
,was a ciunnionCauie. Jr iv:is, however,'
impossible for one man, whatever might be his ta.
lents, to receiVe and examine the greater part of thent,
and thus form a-correet judgment. 'They should
nut -
`overlook in this r'esped the abilities of persons in
Another Country, or the abilities in this ; L'lrd
Grey, Lord' Cornwallis, and Sevetiti other drstin-.
guished Officers : Was it politic that the taleots of
these Gentlemen thould he suffered to run to waste
without any Of that 'measure ? It' was also to, be
obserVetl, that military plat;s 'would be much bet.
ter considered in Council, than when they
were-submitted to an individual, There, were.sr...
verakopies urged, on which he thought it onneces.
nary noW`to speak, lot they had been so ably corn. '
!Dented upon by his Right I-Jon. Feiend (tVIr.-Pmr).
But if theSO things slimed the utility'of this sort
of discussion, hOw much- did ,they tell against the
Judgment of Flit Majesty's Ministers, because the
first inquiry was, had these Things been adequately'
considered ? The plans urged by.the Hon. Officer
were of the greatest: importance ;
,and 'even if they
were not, they cainerecornmeu&d by it high degree
of military authority, The, Right Hon, Gentle.
man (the SECRETARY at WAR) had said, that the
plans alluded to were considered; and if dicey had not
been adopted, it was because they were deettied not .
advisable";
..but he (r.'\'Vt:cou.A.:t) had seen many
things adopted which were not comtiOtred advisable
at the time they were. plopOsed. It appeared ti)
hint that Ministers al:vays spoke in the wrri
tense'; it was tiot,the past or the present, but tilt:
futuret it was always that skit a thing willobe
considered. He wanted to know if any .one;thiog
had been done which might not have been dona•
long ago. Now„ when they were on the very
brink of f.lairger, those measures were brought
ward by Ministers
.whteh there al: ),ved to he 0.e.),
cessary, and yet they were Ira brought forward in
Hine. Ministers semi .'d to play last and 10-tio ;
they now sail, that under the resell( c-!reutrt.
stances Of dan,,,,er, it' any ohan4es were .rnadf:
iii
the Military 6ysteuti they ought he
with still greoter danger. The prestott
sure was ,a ndessi,:u i,t,. the danger, ar it
must be a lOng titw., fore it coital he c,rri, J 1 1 To
(;xec‘otion ; lie ,a,vno reason why it
been brought forward at an earlier i t
?pith of the Country had not 1/41
now, Because Ministers had not talke,.;
ss hich they were now talking. Wi,c,
iMastire, the c7,,“.;;:ttlioil of it It.
the discretion of Goverionent,
upon the training tit the then, ss iti;dl
very likely to he faulty, hod that
appointed to perform that si:rvice
the old system, and attempt 19 ters:::l
necessary, by which a :nu .n
would .be consuitsed,

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