The Sun.
London, England, 1804-03-03 00:00:00

NObil NEES

Wm. P rad., E sq.`

I Phillip Peancis,

The Scotch Bankrupt LAW Bill was read -a second

Lord ARCHIB f) 'HAMILTON said, he had
given notice of a Motion which had dropped in con.
sequence of their being. no Ilouse yesterday; but as
he understood that it was not intended to•oppose it,
he would, With the pe ttnisi:yn of the House; sub.
mit . the Motion then to their cOnsideration
thiit"theie be laid befOre the House an Account
of Slms charged upon the Revenues of Ireland,
for the Payment of. the Officers of the Irish Trea.
situ, '&c. since .the Union, distingflishing the dare.
Of such Payment, dud forni`of the Order Under which
it was paid.
Mr. CORRY said it Was .his wish that the in.
formation which the. Noble Lord had called for,
should be given iii the most full and satisfaaory
manner, and if tlil`:76ble,Lord had nit brought for.
Ward the subjea he shOtild have done it himself, for
the subjea having been
,once starred he could not-,
'Suffer it to pass without being fullyeitplained. He
thought, however, it, would 410,wer even the Noble
Lord's purpose better, if instead of making the
Motion in the form in which it now stood, he would
move for an account of the suites paid at par eaclv
Session,- and also the amount ;mid.ty e.acli
This he thought would bring .tfie sUbjea more
the of the tiou,;c. It
might be proper also to add, in addition to the
Noble Lord's Motion, the rate of Exchange at the
difrerent periods, and its amount abuse par.
Lord A. HAMILTON said, he had no objelion
.to move in the manner recommended by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, but he had omitted one point
which he thought very important, and ;hat was the
orders under which the payment was made at par.
Mr. CORRY said, he had no objection, but in
faa there were ti otht4 orders but those given by
the Treasury of Ireland„ or the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER. The ordinary expences of the Irish
Government in this -Country, . were paid by the
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER in the usual way
by drafts upon'a Banker ; he would however alter
the Motion to inert the Noble Lord's wishes. •
Lord FOLKBSTihE wished, that the words
" in and from Iteland," should be inserted instead
•
of " from Ireland." •

Mr. CORRY said, he hats no other objea but to
give the most ample informition, arid therefore he
should readily agree to the'alteratioh.

The Motion. was tben agreed to.
• PROPERTY TAX.

Lord TEMPLE gave noticeohat it was hii inten-
tion to submit to the House a Motion, the effect of.
which would be to exempt the Subalterns of the.
Army from the payment of the Property Tax out
of their Pay ; preparatory to which he would now
moire, 'thai the proper Officer du lay. before the
HoUSe an 'Account of all SUms collected on the Pro.
petty •Dx from Officers in the Army, from the sth
of April to the sth Of- November last.
The CHANCE4O R of the EXCHEQUER
said, he, should have had no objediort to this Mo-
tion; if theNotrie Lord had not stated the•objett of
it ; but upon a subjea of such importance, he was
sure the Noble Lord must know that some notice
'ought to be given ok,such aMotion„
Lord TEMP La. ottd...he would. move it on Wed.
nesday.
. The Irish Priests and Deacons Bill was ordered
to be read second time on Monday.

IRISH CIRCULATION.
Mr. FOSTER said, he had some days ago given
notice of his intention. to submit ro the iits•Use
motion respe&ing the state of Exchange• between
this Country and Ireland, and he now rose to per-
form his promise. The Exchange against Ireland
had been rising for some time past, but more e.spe-
ciatly within the last six months, so that there was
now, h point of fad, a real loss to Ireland of no
less than so per cent. That circumstance, alone
.would, he was sure, be sufficient to induce the
.House to take the subject into their consitieration.
But when they considered that 'lreland, though now
oi)nsolidated with. Great Britain, was hake to a
toss -of so per cent. on. Exchange, 'while Scotland
and the inure distant parts of this Country; which
were tart.hcr from London thatyDoblin, • suffered no
Itis• from Exchange,. there certainty must be•some-
thing inure ban • common .causes which could produce
:such cifeds, dt iwas•pecuitarly hiltd that any per.

so.n.taunting from Ireland to attend his duty in Par,
liattient;.
.ttit2n any other 'business,' must ltie ten
per cent. t`i.thin ;{lst was not theease with any other
subject of the tnited kingdom:
,t-le did not roe :rd
to,detain the 1-louse, with going, at large into this
subject, but' it .was 9bir sous that the balance of
trade against Ireland must have hatfa very consi-
.derable citediri creating. the present•state of Ex..
change.
.Previous to the year rBo9 the, balance
of bade between .Great Britain atuf Ireland
was in favour of the latter, but since, that. time
the balance, he said, had "turned completely
against Ireland. In'the year 18ot the balance was.
700,0001.. against Ireland; in the-year iBoit wet,
boa,000l..; and in the year.lBo3 it was. tine,million.:
Without going .any faither,he should he thought-be
• justified in supposing that abe balance of trade must
have had a very cOnsiderable dna.- But there were,'
other causes : there was another balance against /re.
land, and Brat-was the balanee of remittances, : the ne.
Cessary remittances from Ireland for the pay menrof the
interest 'of the Loans conti"a4ed in England amount-.
ed'lO .i,'3267,9991. Another Source of remittances
was the reoisi,.of the absentees : this had been. -esti.
mated at three millions, hut. he alias convivcad that
this was a very exa',..;gL:ited statement ; if it tvaa
'taken at two millions it would, he had:no doubt, he
rather at the outside ,of the mark. However,
these t wo-stains,- viz. t, 360,0001. for interosr, azat
.;,003,0061. for rents, twide a' regular 'annual drain •
neonirelaia, of 3,300,0001. To counterbalance
this there Was nothing but the 'sums drawn everk
yeai- from England into Ireland by 'way of loan,
conaeqttently the balance was very 'considerably
,gainst Ireland. But setting this aside for a mu-
'tient, there was another:consideration that naturally
occurred upon this subject, and that was the dif-
ferent prices of bullion in the two countries. Fa
Ireland,, the price of guineas, which he would kit
this purpose.call bUlltion, was: as. 63, or at leas%
25....41:ni0re
,than it was in 6:eat Britain. Con-
: sequently the guinea was iil Ireland 25. cf. dr
29. above theentrent price. Why the price of
bullion had risen so high in that country'', Was a'
subjeCt well. worth inquiry. There 'were, in his
• opinion, many causes for, it, but the principal One
appeared to him to be the restriaicin.upon thepa-y..
nients. in specie by the Bank, Whether paper' was
-or was not depreciated in value, was yery tasy tt
be ascertained.. When 'paper was convertible'
gold -of eqUal value, it was not' deprt:cfatede lint
nOwWher:At was necessary to give more than as.
'premium fora guinea, it was'obvious-fhat the paper
was•at a depreciation of 'atioVe. to'per cent.' And
he begged the House to consider what 'must ho. the
siattatton cf a country whose paper- was at a depre-
-0.0- cOhr,
ibis depreCiation arose frora an over-issue of Bank
Varier. Whether that was_' the canse he wohld'itiir
determine, but lie had no doubt bur chat there wis
an over-issue, for the quantity of Bank of Ireland
paper in., circulation at the time of the Restristlian
was '690,6601„ and Ow it was 2, 600,0001. As
,payment in specie bad ceased, the 'Bank of IrelAtid
,paper was now becOme the findupon Which private
Bankers et!)-uld issue their paper. And'aa the qhati.
tity of •paper which a' Bank formerly _ could issue
was generally -supposzd to he-as three to one in prO.
portion, to its specie; so' nOw the Bank (.If.
Paper was the prodtaittiveTund Upon which the pri.
vale Bankers in Ireland'eould issue their •Papet%-L-
-.
Another' cause that might operate Tis, the: ski-
posed-insecui ity of the country,
,not. of the t3anle-61
Ireland for he was sure the're was not a Bank in
.EutOpe that stood upon more firm foundations than
the Bank_ Ireland. He',Was•not ... :Ed4+
ever, .to: think that the State of the Country Bard
had much effeEt in prodneing. this very unfavourable
state of E*change.. Withiespea to the remedies
that might be applied to this evil, there,were many
'different opinions ; there was; however, one remi_
dy,land that'a very simple one, and that would
to I,iave.one common cifeulati4; medium
.in 'both
Countries, There was one thing in the situationnf
Ireland which ought to be attended to, which was,
that: before the gestriftion took' place; Ettia'Ad
had two circulating mediums With -Ireland,
Gold and
.Bank Englanri Paper, whereaS
land had but one medium of circulation with
England, And that was gold, and consequently the
.resJiCtion upon the Bank took away 'the only
medium she had—He begged the Hotise to c-tinSitier
what were the future prospeCli of Ireland: '• The
Loaris that Were made in England for the serViceOf
Ireland dUring the War and 'retnitted'to that COtria,,
try, counteraded . the died of the -remittances
from Ireland to England. But when the: Wir
ceased, and there were no More Loans, then there
woad be nothing to eounterbalance the great an_
ental drains upon I'reland With respeCt to the st.t'te
of the coinage. of Ireland, he had befote'srated that
there was no' such thing. as a good`shillintth-be
found. from one end of Ireitical to the. other: the
coinage that represented shillings was so base,' that
six or'seven and
,twenty of 'them were. fr'equatitly
given
,for a guinea note. He would not trouble'the
House more 'presenf,' but move, that-a Confatit.
tee should be appointed to inquire' into 'the itate.of
the..specie, and 'of the. Exchange of ireiand."
.Mr. BROG.D.ON said, he did not mean to. op-
pose the motion, though 4e was not aware that= it
could be attended with any beneficiala-4
ea-44.1411e
bad situation of Ireland was the cause of tliiibala6ce
of Exchange being so, mush against that
be
;
and twill that sabation was aMeliorated, be did ,not
think that any Legislative measure could, produce
any, good effect.-
• •
Mr, G,Ei.htGE said, as'ihe
► Geollern‘an had ,nat ,exprcsaed any .intuition Of Op-
. posing the. tallution, it was-allot perhep,,,neeessary-
: to make. any obser vatiolainon had. said, :but
he thought the lion. Guntleaun might As.well.have

IM ~..

rververi his observations till the Committee went
i-to the inquiry which. was proposed. What had
been said about. Exchange might be perfectly true,
when the Exchange between the two Countries was
real ; bur it was well known that there was a-nomi-
nal as well as a real Exchange, and that ought al-
ways to be borne in mind when this subjeft was dis-
cussed. With regard to the distress- that prevailed
in Ireland, 00 account of the state of 'the circulation,
he was sure no man who had not been in that country
could form a just conception of it from any descrip.
tion, however accurate. There was not to he found
in the country parts of Ireland, except in the North,
any;description of coin whatsoever, except some very
bad copper ; silver or gold there were none-. But
as something must be used for circulation, there
were many persons who, without any capital
whatsoever, set up a kind of banking shops, and
issued Notes of one shilling, of sixpence,
and a
Note for :three shillings and sixpence was consider.
ed as a very large one. The difficulties and it-icon.
venirnce which (his occasioned to the higher classes
of society were very great indeed, but infinitely
more so to the lower classes. No longer ago than
last Saturday, be paid in Dublin 44. premium
for guineas to pay his exoences to London, and if
he had bought Beek ofEngland Paper the premium
would have been something more. Under these cir-
cumstances he did not conceive that there could he any
preliminaryobjeetion to the appointment of the Com-
mittee which had been moved for, which he thought
likely to produce the most beneficial effeas.
Mr. CURRY said he rose by no means to offer
the smallest opposition to the Motion of the Right
Honourable Gentleman, a Motion, the principle of..
which had already been acceded to by some of his
friends round him. -He did not however wish to
be understood as meaning to express any convic-
tion that it vv,old produce any .praaical benefit,
which would remedy the evil which was com-
plained of. If the inquiry would be produaive
of any beneficial consequences, it would give him
the roost sinceie satisfaElion, and even if it should
fail of the desired end, it might have this eifeft,
that it would prove to the Public the troth of the
opinion which had been delivered by the best in.
formed men upon this subjed, viz. that for the evil
of Exchange there was no remedy in the power of Par-
liament. It would set the public mind at rest upon
the subjea, and the House would have discharged
its duty with attention and with due regard to Ire.
land. Every body would be satisfied with the degree
of alleviation if not of temedy which this might
produce, or they would be convinced, after fall in.
query, that it was not possible to do any thing upon
the subjett. With regard to the circulation of Ire..
land, the House would bear to recolleCtion that this
subjea had not escaped .the attention of Ministers.
It had been repeatedly adverted to in the last
Session, aid in the Session before. In the last
Session an Aa was passed to prohibit the circt=
lation of what was celled silver Notes in Ireland,
from the tst of January, 1804. The propriety of
that Aa was at that tale doubted, and as many
Irish Members' were prevented from attending Par-
iiiment by their military duties, an Aft was 'passed
the. commencement of :this -Session to suspend the
Operation of that AU tor am :.
Feared that the statement of the Right'Hon. Gentle-
man, though :rue, had not escaped the attention of
'His Majesty's Ministers, With regard to the state
of Exchange between Great Britain and Ireland,
when it appeared, that the balance of Exchange was
in favour of Iceland in those parts of that Country
where gold was in circulation, and that it was
against Dublin where there was only Paper in cir.
culation, the quantity of Paper issued must he looked
upon as one of the causes of the depreciation of
Paper. But beside this, there was, he was convinced,
tt very considerable degree of management in the
subject of Exchange. When the Treasury of Ireland
ceased to draw upon this Country for the amount of
the Loan, it was observable that the Exchange rose
considerably in four or five days.. There were vita.
'lent fluctuations of two, three, and 'even four per.
cent. He had, therefore, na doubt but that a very
considerable degree of management
.was used in
creating these violent fluauatiens of Exchange,
which were so advantageous to individuals. With
regard to what had been said on..the suhjea of
remittances, there was
,one species of remittance
to Ireland which had not been alluded to.—
The Loan remitted from this Country to Ireland
certainly affeCted the immediate balance ; but the
fad was that. the expenditure in Ireland was greater
than its contribution to the joint expenditure of the
United Kingdom. The consequence of that was,
•
that very considerable sums were remitted to that
Country, and that 'vas one reason 'why Ireland
bad been better able to go on than she. otherwise
would have done. There was one subjed ad-
verted to by the Right Honourable Gentleman
who had made the motion, upon which he could
by no means agree with him. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, in stating the balance of .trade to be
against Ireland, had argued entirely upon what was
called the official value, but it was perfectly well
known that the official value was verp considerably
below the real value. It was certainly true, that
it: Gentlemen were guided by the official value of
the Exports, the balance of trade. would appear
to be against Ireland, whereas if they looked
to the real value of the article exported, which
certainly was the only true way of knowing
whether the balance was for or against a Coun-
try, the balance
:would appear to be in favour of
Ireland—To illustrate this
.point, he would men.
tion one or two instances. It 'was perfectly well
known that the second gieat article of export from
Ireland was provisions. The barrel of beef ex.
ported from Ireland was valued in the official books
at 16s. per hundred weight ; whereas in fart the
real value, that is to say, thed
even real price at which it
ato
was exported was 25, 30, an shillings per
cwt. In estimating the amount of the exports of a
Country it was necessary to look to the real value,
because that was the amount of the money that came
into the Country as the price of the article. With
regard to pork, which was perfeftly well known to
be another great article of export from Ireland, the
official value was nineteen shillings per cwt. whereas
the real price at which it was exported was thirty,
thirty-three, and even sometimes-up to sixty-fivt
shillings per cwt. Butter, which was another
gnat article of export, was stated according to

official value at 42‘. per Cwt. whereas in potato!'
fad it was exported at 70-80, and•even so high as
112 per Cwt. It was therefore a very unfair means
of ascertaining the trade of a country to look mere:
ly to official value. It was true that the real value of
the Imports was greater than the offici-11 retitle, but not
in so great a degree as in the Exports. Therefore
Ireland was by uo means in the desperate situation
which had been represented by some Gentlemen.
However, as he had stated before, he should not op.
pose the Motion, and it would give him the most
lively satisfaaion if it produced any beneficial ef-

leas.
Mr. FOSTER said, that the observations which
the Right Hon. Gentleman had made as to the dif-
ference between the real and the official value of the
Exports did not apply, because in the calculation he
had made he had taken the official value both of
Imports and Exports. He knew very well that
there was a great difference between real and offi.
cial value, because the cattle that were exported
from Ireland to England, were valued in Ire.
land at t al. a head, but when they came to Eng-
land their official value was fixed at 61. so that it
might he supposed they lust one half of their value
by sea-sickness.
Mr. CORRY said, he had before stated, that al.
though there was a difference between the real acid
the official value of Imports, it was by no means so
great as the d:1 fence between the real and the offi-
cial value of the Exports.
Lord HENRY PE'T'TY said, he felt great sa-
tisfaawn .that the Right Hon. Gentleman had
.brought forward his Motion, and he was also gra-
titled at the very candid manner in which Ministers
had declared that it was not their intention to op-
pose the Motion. But he wished to state an evil of
very great magnitude, which was one which
was under the immediate eye of Ministers, and
which they might remedy 'by a single order.
—There was not, he believed, any doubt but
that the excess in the issue of Private Bank
Paper in Ireland had very much contributed to the
bad state of that country. He certainly did not
mean to propose, nor should he wish to adopt any
violent measure to check the circulation of the
Private Bank Paper ; but, on the other hand,
there was no reason why it should be' encou-
raged and forced into circulation. He understood,
from very good authority, that one of the great
means by which private Bank Paper in Ireland had
been forced into circulation was, that it was used
principally in the payment of the Army and the
Yeomanry of that country. He was very much in.
dined to believe that the-re was a corrupt under-
'standing between some of the Army Agents in that
country and the private Bankers. Though he did
not wish to over-rate the importance of this prac.
'tice, it certainly was a very great evil.—With re-
gard to the Motion before the House, he by no
means agreed with those who thought that
no good consequences could result from it,
because, at-all events, it would be the means of
asc-rtaining a number of fans which would afford
the fairest chance of enabling Parliament to apply a
remedy to this evil.
Lord C ASTL ERE AcH saidothat he did not .un-
Aararaast hi. Right Hon. Friend-to say, that he ex-
petted no.' advantage from the appointment of thts
Committee, ; he had Only stated, that he did not at
present see any remedy that
.cOuld be proposed—
There appeared a disposition among some Gentle-
men to take it for granted, that the high stare of
the Exchange against Ireland arose from the depre.
ciation -of Paper ; now he hoped that Gentlemen
would not make up their minds upon.these points,
and take them .for granted before the inquiry took
place. He was inclined to entertain a very differ-
points ; but he thought as
cot opinion upon these
an inquiry was to be instituted, Gentlemen-should
suspend their judgments until the tans were ascer-
tained, and that no point should be considered as
conceded either on the one side or the other.
Mr. DICK said, he did not think that any good
could arise from the appointment of this Commit.
tee. There seemed to him to be a kind' of pre-
judice entertained against the Bank of Ireland,
which he was sure was very ill-founded.' The Di-
rectors of the Bank of Ireland had been attacked
both in and out of that House : he had seen a Pamph-
let, written by a Noble Lord, not a Member of
that House, which contained a most violent, un-
warrantable, and unsuccessful attack upon that most
respeltable body of men, and the ground of attack
was the great issue of Paper; bin there were many
circumstances which occurred since the year 1797,
when the Restriction was laid on, which completely
justified the Bank of Ireland in increasing their issue
of Paper, and which indeed rendered it absolutely
necessary. He understood that a Deputation of
Merchants of Ireland had waited upon the Right
lion. Gentleman who made the Motion, with a view
of consulting him upon this subjea, and that the
Answer they received was, that it was-'a subject
upon which no Legislative measure could be pro.
du of any'tentedy for-the evils He wished to
know if that was the faft.- •
SirlollN NEWPORT said, he did not see how
any Legislative measure could affect -the state
of the Exchange between the two Countries,
any more than it could between Great Britain and
Hamburgh, or Cadiz. With regard to what had
been said about the Manufacturers of the North of
Ireland carrying on their business entirely in gold,
he was ready to admit they sustained considerable
injury from it ; but if they did, it was an evil of
their own creation—lf they wanted that confidence
in the Paper of their Country •which-all the test of
their Countrymen felt, if they would only deal
upon gold, when that had ceased to be the medium
of circulation both in that Country and in this, the
evil of which they complained was certainly one of
their own creation. Suppose the County of York,
or any other great manufaaurings County in Eng-
' land, should determine to transaa no business ex.
cept in gold, when Paper was the medium of circu.
lation through the rest of the kingdom, they must
necessarily very soon feel the same inconvenience
that was felt in the North of Ireland. He then ad-
verted to the subjeft of the Country Bankers in
Ireland, and said, some means ought to be taken- to
prevent men setting. up as Bankers, without first
proving that they had some capital which entitled
them to confidence.
Lord A. BAMILTON rose, merely to advert- to

What bail ben said about the Pamphlet publlshect by '.
a Noble. Lord, which he contenth!d, did not cuntain
any thing violent or unwarrantable; on the contrary,
-in his opinion, all the reasoning was fair, anti found.
ed upon the clearest fads.
Mr. ALEXANDER said, he hoped the House 1.
would go into the proposed inquiry. He wibbed that
there was a uniform medium of Circulation in both
Countries, whether it was Of gold or of paper. He
contended, that there was no ground for aeiy charge
upon the Bank of Ireland, the- Diredors :of which
afted from the best motives; and if there was any
inconvenience, it arose from the issue of their Paper
being too small instead of being too large. The
fact was, that the issue of their Paper h:rd been in-
tercepted by an extraordinary degree of Agency on
the part of the Private Banks.
Mr. FOX defended the Pamphlet which' had been
published by his Noble Friend, and said, he was
sure that nothing would give his Isioble Friend more
pleasure than to have his opinions closely investi-
gated. With regard to the general. question, he
thought the House ought to go. into the Committect
and he had no doubt but their inquiries would be
roduaive of much good. It had been said that a
Legislative measure could not alter the exchange
between this Country aad. foreign Nations, but the
fad was, that about 32 years ago, when the ex
change between this Country and Hamburg , was
against this Country, on account of the bad state of
our coinage, Parliament had, by reforming the state
of the coinage, turned the rate of exchange in favour
of this Country.
Mr. Drcx explained.
After a few words from Mr. DENT the motion
was agreed to, and a Comthittee appointed, amongst
whom are the following Members:—
Mr. Foster, Lord A. Hamilton, Lord, Henry Petty, Mr.
Pitt,' Mr. Fox, Mr. Grey, Mr. Rose, Mr. Canning, Sir
William Pulteney, Sir john Newport, Mr. j..C._ Beresford,
Mr. Sheridan, and Mr. Brogden ; live to
,be a quorum.

IRISH REVENUE.
Mr. CORRY said that an order of yesterday for
a Committee of the whole House on the Irish Re.'
venue Afts had dropped in consequence olthere
not being a sufficient number of Members to proceed
to a Ballot, but he trusted there could be no objec.
tion to the House now voting itself into a Committee
on the said Mts. It was his intention to propose
in the Committee the renewal of the Irish Duties,
and as they would expire on the 25th of March, he
trusted he should not be considered as too rapid in

pressing the subjeCt.
11IS MAJESTY'S INDISPOSITION.
Mr. GREY said, he did not rise to oppose the
MOtion, but to put a questioil relative to a subjeCt -
which deeply affected the Public, a question which
he was impelled to put.hy the sense he entertained
of his public duty. Declarations had been- made in
that House and in other places respecting the state
of- His Majesty's Health, which though at the first
iriew seemed calculated to give satisfaction to the
Public, had yet only tended in their effea to in-
crease the anxiety, doubt, and alarm which had
prevailed upon the suhjeti. What he rose at pre-
sent for, was to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
(theCamictLLott of the EXOiEQUER) for a pre-
cise explanation of the expressions he' had used on a
forrnci occasion, in order to prevent any doubt from
existing in the public mind, as it must he the wish
Of every one that any such doubts should be entirely
done away. The words used on a former occa6on
by the Right Hon; Gentleman, he understood to be
" that there was not now any necessary suspension
of the personal exercise of the Royal Authority.!'
He wished to know whether the Right' Hon.

Gentleman meant to state that the personal exercise
of the Royal Authority was at this moment corn-
plete. Tn prevent ambiguity he wished to'under-
stand precisely, whether Hts MAJESTY was not now
prevented by indispoSition from attending to
public
business, and that the personal exercise of the Royal
Authority was not thereby prevented ? l^ie hoped the
Right Hon. Gent. would give an explicit answer,
and would also explicitly state whether his know-
ledge was derived from a personal access to ,His
Majesty, or from the information of all the'Physi-
cians now attending upon His Majesty. He trusted
he should receive an explicit answer, to a question
in the way of which no considerations of -delicacy
ought to stand, an answer which was expeaecl
by
an anxious' and affectionate people. It was his duty
to put such a question, in order that the House
might know whether, they ought now to prcceed to
public business; or whether in so doing they were
not violating the first principles of the'Constitution.
Whatever the answer might be,' he should not fur-
ther interrupt the business of the day, but ilk
was not satisfatiory, he should think it his duty to
bring the subjed before the House in another shape.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'
said, whether the question put by the Hon. Gentle.
man, was one which was likely to create a feeling of ie.
pet amongst an affectionate and loyal People, he
would not now decide: It was his wish on a for_
met occasion to put the House in poSsession of the
most explicit information upon this subjed. He
then stated what the Hon. Gentlemen had men-
tiOned. To that statement he begged leave to refer
the Hon. Gentleman. and the House, with this ad.
dition, that he bad not had personal access to His.
Majesty, but that a better criterion had been (forded
him, (whereon he formed that opinion, he meant the
concurring sentiments of all the five Physicians at.
tending His Majesty.
Mr. GREY said, that if things continued in the
state they were at present, he should think it his
duty to submit a Motion to the House 'upon this
subjea next week.
The question was then put, for the House to re,,
solve itself into a Committee on the Irish Ads.
Mr. PITT wished to know whether the business
would, take up a great deal of time ; he submitted
whether it would not be better to postpone it. in
order to give way to another measure of consider,
able importance, relating to the National. Defence.
Mr. CO RRY said, it was necessary to lose no
time in voting the Irish Duties, as they would ex-
pire on, the zsth. If,. however, it was the pleasure
of. the House that he should merely propose the
schedule,lte should content himself with that, la ith
. an understanding that the Report should be made to-
,. morrow. •

It was at length agreed, that the Resolution;
should be proposed only proprina;, which was done

its thc Committee, and the House having, resumed
orrow.
the Rerott .-ts ordered to be received to-m
.
The House resolved itself into a CommitW

the MutiO Siii. Report to-morrow.
Me SPEAKER vir
irro
informed the House that he.
would be in the House at three o'clock to.m
and take ,the Chair as soon as he was enable(l to d°
so by a sufficient number of Members being present'

VOLUNTEERS.
Mr. Secretary YORKE moved the Order of the
Day for the House to resolve itself into a Commit",
tee on the Volunteer Bill. As there were seer'''.
Clai4es, to prop gg
ose, he su ested that it would be
better to debate the principle of the Bill on the Re'
•

port.
The House having resolved itself into a Co3l'

mir tee, -
Mr. Secretary YoRKE proposed some Amenclineoti; r
in the body of the Bill, the first of which went to cone"
fine the repeal of former Laws to those relating to 'lie,
Yelomanty and Volunteer Corps of Great Britain, l
it being thought better, he said, to leave the Lawi
relating to the Yeomany and Volunteer cow' i
Ireland as they stood. He also proposed to insets
some words to render the Fines anfl Penalties clod
former Ads recoverable. His next Arneedffler:
went to authorise the continuance of the Corr 41°.r,
in existence, unless His Majesty should pleasefts . •
discontinue the services of any Corps, or par' L
Corps,
,by an order through the Secretary of StaC.'
These
,Amendments were severally agreed '"' a ' I
Sir IVM. YOUNG then rose to propose an Amen. ( - !
'Dent in the second Clause, The House, lie s"'i.,`; I
must be aware that the War was likely to be rilrr; '
duration, and it her fore became necessary 0 ''),,fi)C
towards a permanent system of defence. He Ow*t.
that the Exemptions, tended to withdraw froill -,ce
force of the Ceuntry a great proportion of WI! 4
pulation. With respeCt to these he wished ro`',"Aje
'
the line between those Volunteers who had orieila,:
ly come forward on the puteit principles of Pertrs-rii
tism, and those who lent afterwards come fr'''''cit.
only to avoid the compulsory provisions of tbr ,i9e
fence A. He wished only to extern; the PY'
he'illes
~
tions to those Corps who had been accepted Rd
is
previous to the 27;h -of July rS°s''o or
which means they would only attach uf° e our
too.coo men, whilst zi-0,000 of the floWer "''
cote
youth would be brought back again into the ge,dt
ral force of the country. fie 'thought 111(1 tlcsi
to do ail they could to render this great rrlaelll.l,,Ose
the population of the country as effective 35 tair
m
stole, and therefore to strike out from the e%c''i'cif
lions all those who had no idea at the tie of O, I.
coming forward of any exemption at all. lie eese
chided by moving an Amendment, for the Purrhol
10
of confining the exemptions to those Corps 0. ,
been aeceoted previous to the 27th of July i9°3 ;bet '
Mr. Pal' said, he thought it itupooil;le eivi
they could, with any oegree of eolliiatenclit :reC,le; t
this Amendment. They kid estiblieked tliteir,4,,eeri ;
that exemptions should be giver+, to all live v"%entr. '
to whom this had been let Li our as an i""c%er of
on condition of their raereisieg a certei* nu:ll' ad
days ; they had complied with ()Ili conelitOnhaoh.
this amendment would certainly he a Wadi c' tarts
with them. Parliament had bound iteelf li",ee
instante by an express Statute, and not* the4o:‘,
advised to 'recall. it, and
.to make the eNer'‘' t r
not mrely in favour of he original Corpsi,),‘ltti,
favour of all those who had since been edmiti.',,-110
fill up vacancies, ' by which means those 'vrT,' tO,
earned their exemptions by complying wito,etfir
reouisiteconditions, were to be deprived "' c. cre
whilst others who had come recently jot° °e ssfe
were to becime fully entitled to them. -,.() eel'
that because Parliameot had thought prol:er,s,,u,VlY
out an inducement to persons to come breaded se°
lunteers, that therefoeeit ought to be tak.en el ' lOC
a sort cif reasoning he could not cempreben'tveric
'could he agree that those latter Corps had 00 poyi .
in coming forward in the defence of their C"t`,,,itill'
they had shewn their zeal in coming fortear3 elfeJ'
' tarily rather than suffer themselves to he cotof
rocet
and he could not comprehend why the incliner beet
held out by Parliament to excite them t"' r,.(11 d'el:
which it was wished they should do, and wh'''' pia' I
. had done, should now be taken away.. The re,'
,:t 0 ir
of the Hon. Baronet appeared to him lilee''''s' it se
as inapplicable as the proposed regulatioot aj scull'
posed, that. all the 'Volunteer Corps accer'ter ;fie4
quent to the 27th of July rBo3,were offetedl;o,l
Defence Ad, whereas several offers had l'—, -J1e61.1,`,,
previous to that period, which remained' ti'' ?ell":
upon in consequence of that Act being beOrco eleP'';
ment. The line attempted to be drawn by the
We
Baronet, although not intended ,by him, '''''selte;4
the effeft of disbanding all the Volunteer-00's;
8o or octopoo of the old Corps. He 41,3 (I' lie.`l/:,,,1
Gentlemen to run away with. an idea 01",i'eet Pel
friendly to exemptions, but if after Pirli''"i sli':4ltilf
given the exemptions by a -specific AttL'''''' die
then take them away in the manner rf0:;)e-Siup
the Hon.. Bar net from three fourths of -, avid
lunteers, it Must necessarily be considereu 'light tie
Jiamentary discouragement. Whatever sni,seroiof
the opinion entertained of the Volunteer ,57, sr Ade
disband it now would be an 'aft of mtri--501,1 /1'
he flattered himself that the Committee
.:tee
dvell;
agree to the proposed amendment.
Mr. If IND Il AM addressed the Corninl," ael
the order and course of debate. He t"-rolsijo
would be the better way to receive all thee.Pitia Y(,
.clanses and amendments, and to print the..lslthe PeA,,,
state, wheu they might he enabled to see rite,,
ings of each
.upon the other, and thereby bewaell' ,Pie
ter enabled to press wear was still further or li) of
He thonght his Right Honourable Friend °hind il'ie
misunderstood his Honourable Friend let,ede'Oi
(Sir William Young)
as it never Was 'll teers A
give the exemptions to the class of V°l° of(°-11'
. hided to
_by his Honourable Friend ; bY Peril '''lr''‘‘.
the amendment his Honourable'Friend 1141 ~ ec
ed-to take away from them what in fact i'vt'
o tll•C
given to them. five c Ov
Mr. FULLER said a few words rel 3. rfig (l
s for $
iiinteioitnva
ennill.i'Ancren'loy€
its neighbourhood where the f3allor t°° e 5 00 ,11c
Mr. Sccr e t fir] YONKE said, . thc : +4° . 6te
reh ;1 i at ,i,
o f cute
iter
51
el irtlyge Siruobtsnt i ttui,tee
(.1.;,
0001,:corei
to
pivirt:lviiisiiaonoor f
At 1: :int
yk i(r)lid
Rie%trivie,..Bilil_le
cdeirrosoi
oft
the propriety or• expediency of. the \OW OP- 'lll.
W 1149 01'P
by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr• - , 010
accepting every Clause and Ainendaiell-
„/A

i