The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-28 00:00:00

evidence was taken, and one witness, Mr. Denison,
the chairman of the Great Northern Railway, recom-
mended that the jurisdiction should be taken away
from the house altogether. It frequently happened that
member's of the committee, from ignorance of the man-
ner of conducting investigations in courts of justice,
pursued lines of examination wholly irrelevant, and
they allowed counsel to play all sorts of tricks with I
them. Occasionally a member of the committee struck
up a mare's nest, and detained a witness a day and a
half, although the expenses to the parties amounted to
2001. or 3001. a year. Permanent chairmen would have
to sit 50 days in the session, four times a day, and he
thought it was only just that they should receive com-

pensition for their labours.
Mr. D. GRIFFITHS complained that in these com-
mittees counsel received enormous and unreasonable fees,
and rushed about from one committee to another. He
trusted that that system would r?ceive a check, espe-
cially as the counsel practising before Parliamentary
committees were not required to be B'3 astute, or their
logal talents so perfect, as those who practised in courts

of justice.
Sir D. NORREYS thought that gentlemen degraded
themselves by the centralisation of business in that
house. He believed that much of that business mi4ht
be transacted in their visions countie2, at a very much
smaller expense than Was incurrel in bringing it to

London,
Col. WILEON PATTEN hoped the day would never
come when members of that house would 1).3 paid for
their parliamentary services.
The CIAA.NCE LLO It of the EXCEIEQ [TER promised
that the attention of the Government should be called
to the report of the committee appointed for the revision
of the standing orders.

Colonel PA ITEN moved, that this house will not in-
sist on its privileges .with regard to any clauses in pri-
vate bills sent down from the House of Lords which re-
fer to tol;s and charges for services performed, and are
not in the nature of a tax.

The motion was agreed to.
GOVER,NNIENT OF INDIA. BILL.
On the order for the consideration of the Lords Amend-
ments on this bill,
Colonel SYKES moved as an amendment that they
be considered this day three months. The East India
Company had gained an empire which Alexander the
Great or Augustus Caesar might have envied, and
he thought, therefore, it might have been re•
spected by the Government instead of seeking its
extinction. He had been for a long time con-
nected with the company, and he could say that
there had always been a desire to prevent war,
annexation, and extensions, and that what bad been
done bad been forced upon them by the home Go-
vernment, and they had been obliged to confirm the acts
of the. home Government against their better convic-
tions. With those exceptions, there bad not been a
failure'in its administrative power. Millions of men and
abundance of stores bad been conveyed to India, and he
held that there bad not been a single failure, and, so
far as he was aware, not a complaint. The directors,
he maintained, bad been actuated by the best intentions
to ensure to the people of India their right,, privileges,
and justice. (Hear, hear.l It could not be contended
that the Company was responsible for the Indian mutiny,
which arose from the fact that a certain number of
gallant men preferred death to dishonour, and would
not d.o that which was opposed to their roli-
gieus convictions. That spirit rapidly ran through
the army of Bengal, and speedily made it a mass of
mutiny. The hill cinched a court which enabled the
people to come before the public with their complainte,
and which put an end to party strife in that house on
Indian affairs—strife which he contended had been a
disgrace to the British character. What was the
preserb state f India? Everything must succumb
to our „arum thete, but it was like putting
a man's fingehttoo*on a globule of quicksilv r.
He thought be had got it under his power, but
only let him look around, and he would see 20
globules starting on every side. That was the exact
state of India at prevent in reference to our military ope-
rations there. He believed that the present state of this
question was tb a result of a mistake. Some mendacious
papers had stated that there was a determination on the
part of the public that the authority of the company
should be transferred to the Crown. Many members of
that house beieved those statements, and hence the
large division which took place on she question. Be
might remind the house that there were at that moment
481 petitions before the house in reference to India. Of
these 126 were for the removal of the system of caste,
89 were against i iolatry, and 145 were for the extension
of Christianity. So that there were 360 petitions closely
touching the feelings of the people, (Hear, hear.)
He believed that in this movement the natives of India
would come to the conclusion that the Government
was not caring for them, and that the only object they
had in view was to secure the patronage which would
fail into their hands as a result of this transfer of power.
That would necessarily tend to increase the distrust of
the English Government which so extensively prevailed
in India. The result of all this was that there was in
India at the present time a more dangerous enemy then
the mutineers in India, and that was a want of confi-
dence on the part of the people. He would say, let t"e
missionaries in India pursue their arduous and, he had
no doubt, beneficial labours. They were doing good,
for they were unsuspected, not being c ,nnected wit•l the
Government. There were 460 of them, of all denomi-
nations, labouring in various parts of the country, to
which they had free access, but if they once had the
official prestige of Government they would be the worst
enemies India ever had. He would say, in conclusion,
that the Government should endeavour to respect the
prejudices of the people of India, as far as they were
reasonable and just, and that they should mark the
transfer of power to the Crown by a discriminating am-
nesty. Unless these things were done, there would lie no
peace in India, and no safety for our doneidons. (Hear,

bear.)
Mr. MANGLES defended the civil service of the
East . India Company, which be c meidered had been
treated with undue disrespect in that house. He had been
connected with it for many years, and he could bear
testimony to the fact that it had always been guided
with a view tothe benefit of India. (Hear.) Hecomplaieed
that in a previous debate Mr. Bright had asserted
that the company bad labented from a chronic defi-
ciency, a statement which be most positively denied.
The same bon. gentleman bad also asserted that the
land revenue was a most oppressive system of taxation,
but the facts he believed would prove most undeniably,
that it was a most moderate system of taxation, and
that it was cheerfully borne. The assessments had, been
continually reduced in a manner which was satisfactory
to the people, and without any petitive lore of revenue.
The hon. gentleman repeated the conviction he has fre-
quently expressed on tormer occasions, that, with few
and unimportant exceptions, the late outbreak was a
mill ary rebellion, and he held, as a general rule, that
the remark was perfectly true—" Where no Sepoye, no
insurrection." Reverting to the civil service, he denied
that the men who composed ft were overpaid. It was
not to be expected that men would go to India for the
same, salaries they -would accept amongst their friends
at home. if they offered the men connected' with the
civil service in India half the salaries they nov had for
work in India, that civil service would be very soon
denuded of its best men. (Hear.) He made an earnest
anpeal to the noble lord at the bead of the Icdia de-
partment that, in apportioning the rewards for recent
services in India, military success should not be the
sole claim, and that those men should not be forgotten
who had saved us from military successes by preserving
the peace of their respective districts. (Hoer, hear.)
Amongst these he might mention such men as Edwards,
Chamberlain, and Cotton. He hoped that government
would at‘tain from interference with the religion of the
people of India, and that in this respect the government
would hold the scales eqnaliy between all. The Hindoos,
so far from having a dread, had a great respect for the
missionaries, so long as they knew that they were
acting an independent part, and were unconnected
with- the Government. (Hear, hear.) He did not believe
that the noble lord the member for Tiverton r-gretted
that be had ever meddled with the East India Com-
pany, and that if the past could be forgotten,
there were very few members in that house who
would care to revive what hid been done in reference
to the new government of India. An eminent writer had
remarked, that to form a new government for India was
as difficult a task as to build a tree, and be believed those
who bad meddled with Indian matters of late had found
this tree -building a very difficult operation. (Hear.)
Mr. WARREN thought that in the bill a mighty
stride nad been made on a momentous branch of iegifi-
htic n, and that the highest credit was due to Lord John
B.uesell for making the whole house a party to legisla-
tion in this respect by proceeding by resolution, thus
clearing the way from all party considerations, and from
all appearance of faction...(flear, hear.) He was of opi-
nion that they might now look for a rapid extension of
Christianity in India, but that civilisation, he considered,
should be based on Christian principle, and that alt undue
concessions should be withdrawn.
Mr. V. SMITH expressed a hope that the house
wouid go into the consideration of the Lords' ameni-
reents without going into the general question. He
would not, therefore, put the questions he had proposed
to the noble lord (the President of the Board of 0 no-
trol), as the noble lord had stated that he (Ur.
Smith) should have an opportneitY of making a
statement on the subject on Friday next. The ques-
tions were as follows t Whether the 17,000 men
tent to India since January last included any troops re-
quested to be added to the establishment in India by the
directors of the East India Company Whether he will
state the terms and objects of the commission to inquire
into the reorganisation of the Indian army l What
is the amount borrowed under the Indian Lean Act
of this session, end whether the amount allowed
to be borrowed under the act will cover the expenses
of the current year,.. ex _ie billa ara n )77 drawn
upon Inoa in the usual method ; and, whether any in-
structions have. been sent, or will be sent, to proclaim
lice Majesty's Hama and
authority in India, and to an-
nounce the intentions of the government as to non-
interference with the religion of the natives I The right
hon. gentleman stated briefly the reasons which had in-
duced Lord Palmeraton's administration to interfere
with the question of Indian government.
Lord J. RUSSELL, adverting to a remark of Mr.
Mangles, that he did not expect much longer to be a
member of the house, in anticipation of his election as a
member of the new Indian Council, expressed his regret
that the members of that body were prohibited from
sitting in the Renee of Commons.
General THOWSON looked upon legislat!on at
present for India as a crowning madness. -It was
like the corumauder of a teasel changiog his lower sail
in a gale of wind. He had no hesitation in saying that
if a, afahommedan should curse to that table to be sworn
be would introduce him, for he believed there was very
little difference between the religions of Mahommedans
sod Christians.
sygES withdrew his amendment, and the house
proceeded to a cozwideratioa of the Lords' amaudreents.
Upon the additioq wade Py 019.1J:44 to clause