The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-24 00:00:00

APRIL 24, 1858

pressior, that the army estimates were too much governed
by nancial considerations.
The subject then dropped.
THE CAGLIARI.

Mr. KINGLAKE postponed his motion with respect to
the capture of tha Caglilri and her crew.
THE LAND TRANSPORT CORPS.
_

Lord A. VANE TEMPEST then rose to call the atten-
tion of the house to the allegations contained in a petition
presented to the house from the officers of the Land Trans-
port Corps on the 11th of August, 1857, and to move for
the appointment of a select committee to inquire into the
question of the petitioners' complaints that they had not
received the rate of half-pay which they state they are
entitled to claim. The noble lord observed that the Land
Transport Corps, which was formed in 1855, was enlisted
under the most unfortunate circumstances, for it was not
acknowledged by the military department, but only by the
civil department, and on its disbandment at the end of the
war the troops were not discharged as soldiers of the army.
A committee which was appointed to inquire into the
matter reported that the corps from the time of its crea-
tion formed a portion of ber Majesty's land forces, and
Mr. F. Peel, then Under-Secretary at War, stated, in
answer to a question, that the officers of that corps would
be treated and considered as bona fide officers in the
army. On that assurance a large number of non-commis-
sioned officers wore induced to accept commissions and on
the reduction of the corps they applied either to be trans-
ferred to the Military Train or to receive their proper half-
pay as officers. They complained that the half-pay which
had been awarded to them was a special half-pay not au-
thorised by the regulations of the service—that it had been
fixed not by the military departments, but by the Lords
of the Treasury. The usual half-pay for a captain in the
cavalry was 7s. 6d. per day, but by the special rate the
amount was fixed at ss. The usual half-pay for a lieute-
nant was 4s. Bd., but the special half-pay was 3s. 6d., but
the cornets in the Land Transport corps only 3s. The dif-
ference, so far as the country was concerned, was trifling,
but it was of great importance to the men who had fought
so gallantly fur their country, and were now unable to
maintain the position in which they bad been placed.
Amongst the applicants there were seven who had received
a medal for distinguished services, two who had received
the cross of the Legion of Honour, and eleven who had
been wounded in the service. There was another point to
which he wished to call the attention of the house. Her
Majesty, in expressing her approbation of the conduct and
bravery of the army in the Crimea, directed that a number
of commissions should be distributed, and on a represen-
tation by General Decree that the Artillery were not men-
tioned, an order was made that they should be included,
and Lord Hardinge said the commissions in the Land
Transport Corps were to be considered equal to commis-
sions in the regular army. On this condition 31 individuals
accepted commissions in the Land Transport Corps. The
applicants whose cause ho was advocating consisted of two
classes. There were 12 deserving officers who left civil ap-
pointments or the militia. The case of Captain Stephens
was especially hard, for he had guyed ten years in the
army in China and other pelts of the world. Having
obtained his discharge, he entered the Land Transport
Corps as a private, and from his energy and zeal was
placed in a responsible position, and raised more than 2,000
recruits, On his return he was placed on half-pay. The
twelve officers who came from civil life hail been treated
in a different way from those who were promoted from the
ranks. They had been placed on half-pay at the regular
rate settled by the War-office warrant of 1854, but it was
only a temporary half-pay, which would terminate at the
end of two or three years, and they would then be left
without resources. There were GO or 70 non-commissioned
officers who had been promoted from the ranks, who
sought to have justice done to them, and ivho were equit-
ably entitled to the proper half-pay. He trusted the right
hon. gentleman at the head of the war department would
see justice done to the claimants, and that the committee
would be granted. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CO %VAN, in seconding the motion, said that a peti-
tion had been entrusted to him by Captain Handyside, who
after 18 years service accepted the offer of a lieutenancy in
the artillery, and who complained with great justice of the
treatment to which he had been subjected, stating that the
pledge which had been held out to him had not been re-
deemed. Great as was the demand for reduction of ex-
penditure, he was sure the people of this country did not
desire to see their gallant defenders treated in a shabby
and stingy manner. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON said his right hon. friend the
Secretary for War had no objection to the appointment of
a committee, but as the adoption of the amendment would
have the effect of preventing the house going into com-
mittee of supply, he trusted it would be withdrawn, and
that the noble lord would be content with the nomination
of the committee on a future day.
Sir J. RIMSDEN cordially concurred in every word
that had been said in praise of those officers whose case
had been brought before the house, and was quite sure
that neither the Government nor the house wished to
treat them in an improper manner. The majority of
them were non-commissioned officers who were promoted
from the ranks to be officers of the Laud Transport
Corps in 1851. In 1856 the corps was disbanded.
These officers had scarcely served for two years, and ac-
m:dug to the war regulations were not entitled to more
than a temporary pension. The late Secretary for War,
Ceding that he could not do more than grant a
temporary half-pay, at a reduced rate, for two or three
years, and considering that their services entitled them to
greater consideration, laid their case before the Lords of
the Treasury, who consented, on his strong and urgent
recommendation, to allow them to relinquish their half-
pay for permanent half-pay at a slightly diminished rate.
It had been said that these officers were not treated in the
same way as the other non-commissioned officers who were
promoted
from the ranks. If they had been so treated
they would have received a higher rate of pay, but it
would only have been temporary, and at the end of three
years it would have ceased altogether. If the committee
should be appointed they would find that the late Secretary
for War had obtained for them the best treatment in his
power. (Hear.) _ _

Mr. P. 6' BRI.EN thought these officers had more than
a financial objection to make, for they might have b3en
transferred to a position in which they would have been
recognised, and would have received their full half-pay.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS thought the matter ought to be
left entirely in the hands of the Secretary at War, and
that the officers ought to have bean provided for by giving
them commissions in the regiments of the line.
The amendment was then withdrawn on the understand-
ing that the committee should be appointed on a future day.

gunboats, and going through, with much minutenes', a
description of the process of launching each right hon.
gentleman. He characterised the whole system as a mis-
take, such as no one who understood the subject could have
made. Unless 100,0001. and upwards was spent, the
matter could not be made useful. There was a mud bank
which ought to b 3 cleared out at Halsar, and made a
receptacle for these boats.
Sir C. WOOD said that great differences of opinion
existed upon the question whether vessels ought to be kept
in or out of water. The hon. and gallant officer seemed to
think that a mud bank was a good receptacle. (Sir C.
NAPIER : " No, no.") (Laughter.) Now, these gunboats
were chiefly intended for shallow water, and the object in
building them was to have a force calculated to protect our
shores. But they would be of great utility elsewhere -- both
in China, in Australia, and in many other places where
vessels drawing but a small amount of water were required.
Ho believed that the boats drawn up at Halsar would keep
better than if they were afloat, The dry rot had shown
itself slower in the vessels hauled up than in those in the
Mediterranean. It was very desirable to got rid of the
gun-boats from blocking up Portsmouth harbour, and
hence a plot of land belonging to the Admiralty had been
used for the purpose of making slips for drawing up these
vessels. To have constructed a wet cock would have been
to enter upon a work of great extent—a work which would
have required a large grant of money.
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE characterised these gun-boat
slips as one of the most extraordinary ideas which over
entered the mind of man. The place in which these slips
were placed would have made an admirable basin. In-
stead of this, Haslar Hospital had been interfered with ;
the neighbourhood had been incommoded by interference
with the walls. And all this for a system of machinery
which, if it broke—and it was not very well thought of by
competent persons—these gun-boats would be useless, for
they could not be floated for three months. He really
doubted whether these boats were worth preserving at all.
What was wanted in the navy was a light sort of vessel,
carrying a commander, and ready to do service in any
part of the world. A letter had been read from an officer
in command of one of those boats, praising his vessel. This
was all very well. A man's ship was like his wife—put
him into ever such a tub —(loud laughter)— and he would
speak well of her.
After a few words from Sir C. NAPIER,

Mr. BRISCOE said the houss ought not to pass over in
silence the opinions expressed by the hon. and gallant ad-
miral, and if it was competent to him to do so, he would
move that the vote be po,tponed. As well as he could un-
derstand the papers, 11,000/. more than had been voted
had already been expended; yet only 5,00.1. was asked
for now ; if so, t. large sum must be still due. He begged
to move that the vote be suspended.

Mr. FITZROY said the hon. member could not move
the suspension ; he should move the omission of the vote.
Mr. BRISCOE moved that the vote be struck out.
Sir C. NAPIER seconded the motion.
Mr. CORRY said nothing had been expended but what
had been voted.

Sir G. PECHELL said there was great difference of
opinion as to this system of drawing up the gunboats. The
late Marquis of Angle,ey'syacht was always considered one
of the best in the Royal Yacht Squadron, yet she was
hauled up every winter. It was necessary to take some
means to preserve these vessels. The Admiralty was
utterly at a loss what to do with them, and it was there
this plan was devised. He had suggested last year that a
number should be sent to Cuba to act against the slavers,
but he was told by the late Admiralty that they were
utterly unfitted for such service ; yet it now appeared that
they had proved most efficient in a similar service in China.
(Heir, hear) He thought they ought to be told on whose
authority this plan at Haslar had been selected.
Mr. T. BARING said that last year the house had fully
approved of the plan of these slips. It appeared that the
apparatus for launching these vessels was not yet com-
plete, and the present vote was intended to perfect it.
The hon. member for West Norfolk said only eight of these
boats could be launched in a month. He (Mr. Baring) had
wiittea to Captain llacres, the superintendent of Haslar
yard, to ask if that was the case. The answer he gut was,
"Thirty of the 60-horse power; there are only eight of
the 40 and 20-horse power on the slip, and these might be
worked off with the others." If the vote was refused the
very object of the hon. members opposite would be de-
feated.

Sir C. NAPIER said there wore only forty boats on the
slips now. Where was the money to come from to prepare
a place for the other forty ? He thought the vote ought to
be postponed for inquiry; the whole plan was wrong.
Sir J. PAKINGTON hoped the hon. member for Surrey
would not press his motion. He was not responsible for
this plan , it was utterly the act of the late Govern-
ment. He had lately visited Portsmouth, and found a
great difference of opinion amongst naval men on
the point. He made every inquiry, and found that
at present for eight days of each fortnight two a
day could be got off ; and if the present vote was
judiciously applied the same could be done every day
in the month. These boats had proved most efficient, and
demands were now made for them from every quarter.
With regard to additional sheds, he would take care that
no money was spent until after full inquiry. The original
estimate was 7J,000/. ; only 51,000/. had been expended.

Mr. FIORSMAN wished to know whether the sum o
56,0001. would_entirely complete the work?

'sir J. PAKINGTON understood so.

Mr. HORSRAN thought if that was the case, and if this
vote would place the whole system in an efficient state,
there ought to be no hesitation about granting it; but if
there was any doubt as to whether thi sum would render
the machinery complete, he thought it would be better to
postpone the vote.
Sir J. PAKINGTON had no hesitation in saying that
from what he had heard, this sum of 5,0001. was absolutely
necessary to render efficient what had already been expended.
He was told at Portsmouth that even a smaller sum would
enable them to launch the boats at all times of tide.

Sir J. ELPHINS2ONE sail, even if the launching
machinery was as complete as possible, it would be necessary
to csaistruct a baain in which to float them. It might be
th•it there were demands from all quarters for these ves-
sel., but that only showed the necessity for providing small
vessels; but these gunboats would not do, they were utterly
unfit for sea—the officers and men were worse off thAn in the
old 10-gun brigs.

Mr. KIRK wished to know where the 11,0)01., which
bad been expended in addition to the 40,0001. voted, had
come from ?

Sir J. PAKINGTON said the late First Lord of the Ad-
miralty migut more properly answer the question, as the
transaction took place during his tenure of office. He bJlieve d
the fact was that the Treasury had sanctioned the expen-
diture of the money before it had been voted by parliament ;
but it was eventually voted.
Sir C. WOOD confirmed this statement. He was glad
that the First Lord of the Admiralty agreed with him that
these gunboats would keep better when drawn up out of the
water than in. No question had been raised about the
draught of water, but about the facility of landing They
had all been drawn up without machinery, and to say that
they could not be drawn down again in the same way did
seem to him to ba an extraordinary notion. It was a moot
question whether the boats ought to be hauled up or not,
bet the question for the house to consider was whether,
when money had been well spent, they chose to expend
5,000/. more to increase the facilities of landing which were
not so good as they should be, and which facilities were
requisite. In reference to a question by an hon. gentleman
as to the order for discharging the continuous service men,
he had to repeat what he had said before, that there bad
been no order rescinding the first order. As to what had
been said about putting an end to thegunboats, and substi-
tuting another class of vessels, he differed altoo.other with
that view; but he had given orders for the building of
three or four small screw vessels to be used in substitution
for the gunboats where they were better suited.
Sir F. SMITH thought they ought to be satisfied of the
effectiveness of these boats before they spent this 5,001. in
providing facilities for hauling them up.
Mr. BRISCOE expressed an intention of taking the
sense of the house on this vote, which he thought was but
the commencement of a much larger expenditure.
Ma. BENTINCK denied the statement of Sir C. Wool
that the money had been well spent. The right hon. gen-
tleman admitted it to be a moot question whether the boats
should be hauled up; if so, why spend this 5,0001. until
that question was decided ? The right hon. gentleman also
said that these boats were useful vessels. He (Mr. Ben-
tiuck) did not deny it; but, if so, why not leave them
where they would be available for service ? He wished to
know whether the 5,000/, was to be the extreme of the ex-
penditure for this ill-advised measure ?
Mr. MACART HY thought the vote ought to be post-
poned until some better information was before the house.
Sir C. WOOD—When the report upon the subject was
sent to the Admiralty he went down to Portsmouth to
make inquiries, and had heard no objection advanced to
the plan.
Sir J. PAKINGTON understood the intention was to
make the existing slip available which would cost 2,0001. or
3,000/., and the rest of the money would ba expended in
completing the ways for launching. He could give no as-
surance that the 5,0001. would bo the last farthing required.
Lord C. PAGET hoped the vote would not be opposed.
It appeared they had forty of these boats hauled up, and
that this money was required to provide facilities for
launching.
Mr. HO ii,SNIAN observed that the late Board of Admi-
ralty claimed credit for housing these boats efficiently. It
appeared that they had been housed so efficiently that they
could not be uuhoused—(a laugh) —and the presint A hni-
ralty found they must spend 5,0001. for that purpose. It
appeared to him that if they votes this money they would
have to vote a further sum next year.
After a few words from Sir C. NAPIER and Mr. BEN-
TINOK, the committee divided on the omission of the 5,00,1.
for gunboat slips--
Ayes
Noes
Majority —l93
The vote was then agreed to. _ _

—•— •
On the vote of 30,0001. for medicine and medical stores,
Colonel BOLDERO said that the present vote afforded
an opportunity of bringing under the notice of the com-
mittee the medical condition of the navy. He had fre.
quently brought before the house the case of the navy
assistant-surgeons. On some occasions he had been suc-
cessful, and on others he failed. The pay of the assistant-
surgeons of the army had been raised from 7s. 63. to 10s.
a day. Now ho was of opinion that it better educated
class of men was required for the navy than for the army,
for this season, that the meoical men on laud had better
opportunities of studying their profession after they left
the school than the navy surgeons. The East India Com-
pany and the mercantile marine wore keen competitors
with the navy for surgeons, and therefore it was the duty
of his right hon. friend to ascertain how he could obtain
the best men for the navy. There was another grievance
under which the surgeons of the navy laboured. When
made full surgeons in the. navy, they were placed on half.
pay, and spent something like ten years on shore doing
nothing. Ho hoped the light hon. ghntleman would take
these circumstances under consideration.

Sir J. PAKINGTON agreed with his hon. friend as to the
importance of this subject and the necessity of having a com-
petent staff of surgeons for the navy. He had not had time
as yet to consider the subject referred to by his hon. and
gallant friend ; but be promised him that the matter should
receive his early attention. (Hear, hear )
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 41,4701. for miscellaneous serv:ces,
Mr. FAGAN asked a question Wi :h regard to Cork Har-
bour.
Mr. MAGUIRE called the attention of the right hon. gen-•
tLman to the importance and necessity of making Queens-
town a harbour of refuge and naval station.
Mr. BAGWELL, as a resident at Queenstown, could corro-
borate what had been said by the hon. member for Dungar-
vou. Every First Lord of the Admiralty for the last 25 years
had promised to consider the case of Cork Harbour, but
nothing had been done. Oue improvement had certainly
been made, arid that was the erection of a pier p.nd so great
was the advantage derived from it that he might state that
he himself saw one of the largest steamers lying alongside of
it, and a regiment of eava'ry was marched down there to em-
bark for the Crimea, and they actually walked their horses