The Sun.
London, England, 1867-03-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAsT EVENING.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at
five o'clock.

TEE REFORM STATISTICS.
The Earl of DERBY stated that thero would be no dif-
ficulty in placing before the house every information upon
the intended measure which was to be introduced relative
to the great question of Reform. (hear.)
LORD REDESDALE AND MR. FRANCE.
Lord REDESDALE said that he wished to call their
lordships' attention to the report of the committee on
the accusations which hf.l been made against him by Mr.
France ; and as the committee had declared those charges
to be unfounded, ho wuald desire only to occupy them
a few moments with an account of the motives that had
induced him to take the course in the matter that he had
done. For a long series of years charges had been made
against him, which he utterly repudiated. Ho had weighed
all the matters connected with the bill, and had come
to the conclusion he had done. As far as he (the noble lord)
was concerned, he was glad that the inquiry had
taken place, and expressed his satisfaction at the
conclusion which the committee had come to. Under
these circumstances, he could not think but that Mr.
France was other than wrong headed, and that hardly
anything would have made an impression on him. As
far as he was concerned, he should not press for any-
thing against him, but treat him with contempt.
The matter, however, he left in their lordships' hands.
Lord TAUNTON contended that though Mr. France
used rough language towards the noble lord, yet it must
be taken into consideration that a person occupying
the position of a judge was open to criticism,
and that the public had a right to employ it. Therefore
he thought that Mr. France, as he had had no personal
feelings towards the noble lord, should not be troubled
farther in the matter.

The Duke of MARLBOROUGH said that there was no
doubt in the minds of any of the committee relative to the
course they should take. The whole matter was of the
clearest description. He (the noble duke) did not know
what course their lordships might adopt in the matter,
but he thought it only right that as a noble lord
holding an important position, and representing their
lordships' house, some mark of the censure of their lord-
ships ought to be given. (Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that though he
trusted the noble lord would take no proceedings against
Mr. France, that still he hoped that this would be an
opportunity which they would take to improve the legis-
lation and jurisprudence of railways. He had long differed
from the noble lord as to the manner in which these
affairs had been administered. Under the present system
there were many anomalies which could not be sup-
pressed, and that when such great works were
being carried out of feeling, not only companies and share-
holders but the public at large, that there ought to be a
total alteration in the present regulations of the committee
of that house. If in any case the judgment of that
house was not to be commented upon, and if
it were so that it was to be considered to be a breach of
privilege, then all the freedom of public discussion would
be done away with. Thepresent proceedings in relation
to these bills was neither constitutional nor proper. There
ought to be a court and responsible body, and an open
court too, to inquire into matters relative to railways.
(Hear, hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that after the obser-
vations made by the noble marquis that it was just that
the house should know what were the circumstances
which had excited the indignation of Mr. France against the
noble lord, the chairman of committees. The fact was
simply that, in the bill in question, it was considered
necessary that a proviso should be introduced, and
this would be done on the third reading. This was
accordingly done, and it was at that period quite
open to the promoters of .he bill to have opposed this in-
troduction. Now it was difficult to make Mr. Franco un-
derstand this, and ho had alleged nothing against the
personal character of his lordship.
The resolution was unanimously agreed to.
THE REFORM. BILL.

Earl RUSSELL then rose to move that an humble ad-
dress be presented to her Majesty, praying that there be
laid before this house :-1. A list in alphabetical order of
the cities and boroughs in England and Wales returning
members to Parliament previously to the passing of the
Act 2d and 3d Will. IV., cap. 45, and stating the nature of
the suffrage existing in each city and borough. 2. A return
showing the number of electors in each city and borough
in England and Wales for 1865-66, classed according to the
several qualifications in respect of which they are entitled
to vote, and the number of such electors who come within
the description of mechanics, artisans, and other persons
supporting themselves by daily manual labour, classed iu
like manner. 3. The number of electors made out from
the foregoing return, distinguishing those who come within
the description of mechanics, artisans, and other perscns
supporting themselves by daily manual labour, in the cities
and boroughs entitled to return members to Parliament
before the passing of the Reform Act, and distinguishing
the mechanics, artisans, and other working men entitled to
vote as scot and lot voters, potwallers, and other ancient
right qualifications, from those entitled to vote as freemen
or as £lO occupiers. 4. A similar return of mechanics,
artisans, &c., in cities and boroughs entitled to return mem-
bers to Parliament for the first time by the Act 2d and 3d
Will. IV., cap. 45; and also in the borough of Birkeuhead.
Ills lordship said that ho had given notice of his inten-
tion to move for these returns, with a view to call the
attention of the house to the present state of the reform
question. That house was as much interested as any part
of the nation in the representation of the people, and
therefore he should make no apology for adverting to the
topic. In the Queen's Speech tho attention of Parliament
was directed to the subject of Parliamentary Reform, and
notice was given that on the Monday following the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would bring it under the con-
sideration of the other house. The right hon. gentle-
man's statement is, however, so obscure, that it is
impossible to gather the intentions of the Government
either from that or from the resolution which was laid on
the table of the House of Commons ou the following morn-
ing. After some time the intention of the Government to
proceed by resolutions was abandoned, although no oppo-
sition was made to such a course. It was resolved to in-
troduce a bill. But again, on February 25, the House of
Commons was told that there was another change of inten-
tion on the part of the Government, that the bill which
had been sketched out by the Chancellor of the Exchequer
was not to be brought in, but that it was intended to in-
troduce one founded on entirely different principles. This
was a course utterly without precedent, and full of incon-
veniences. In the course of one of the statements made
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer it was said that one of
the objects of the first Reform Act was to exclude the
working classes from the franchise, and it was added that
the present Government was about to restore to the work-
ing classes the franchise of which they were so unjustly
deprived. That induced him to look to what passed at the
time of the Reform Bill, and what had since taken place
in reference to the admission of the working classes to the
franchise. Afted reading an extract from his speech in
moving the second reading of the Reform Bill in 1831, in,
order to show that it was the intention of the framers of
that measure to admit to the franchise a considerable por-
tion of the working classes, the noble earl said that,
although the working classes were not admitted to the
extent which he and his colleagues desired, it was never-
theless the fact that they were admitte4 to a large extent.
It must be recollected that in towns like Leeds, Manches-
ter, Sheffield, and Birmingham, none of the working classes
previously possessed the franchise ; and the general effect
of the Reform Act was that, in twelve of the newly en-
franchised towns, more than 25 per cent. of the electors
admitted to the franchise belonged to the working classes;
in twelve others from 15 to 25 per cent. of the voters
enfranchised were working men ; and in twelve others the
proportion of this class was under 15 per cent. By that
Act, in the whole, 58,000 of the working classes were ad-
mitted to the franchise in new boroughs, while 70,000 more
were admitted in old towns. Undoubtedly there were in
some towns scot and lot voters, freemen, and burgess
tenants, who ceased to enjoy the franchise in consequence
of the Reform Act ; 50,000 persons, not, however, by any
means all of the working classes, have been thus struck off
the list of voters. It was the view of the promoters of the
Reform Bill, that in the boroughs where these voters,
where these franchises existed, there had been so much
bribery and corruption, that it was better to entrust the
right of voting to a new class marked out by a property
qualification. That certainly conferred the preponderant
power upon the middle classes; but this is in itself a source
of stability, and the result has been that since the passing
of the Reform Act the principles of the Constitution have
been maintained intact—the prerogatives of the Crown
and the rights and liberties of the people having been
equally secured. It was mainly due to Earl Grey that that
great measure, which swept away so many nomination
boroughs, which were a scandal to the country, was passed.
Every one who has read the recently published work which
contains his currespoudence with King William IV. must
be of opinion that it would be impossible to combine in a
greater degree than he did the loyalty and respect due to
the sover)iju with the niaintenanco of those popular fain-
to which be was attached. It has been said by one
of~oue poets in praise of books, that they
To various people tell not various things,
But what they say to subjects say to kings."
Earl Grey had the merit of a volume in that respect. Ho
never concealed from his sovereign what be was saying
to a subject, and be never ceased to impress on the
subjects the loyalty due to the sovereign. (Hear, hear.)
In 1851 it became the opinion of the Government of
which ha was the head that some further chnege ill 'the
representation should take place with a Tim-of extending
the right of voting to a larger number of the working
classes. In that year he propoeeer a Reform Bill based on
the double principle of admitting a large number of work-
ing men to the franchise and of lowering the occupation
franchise in counties. It is said that since then five reform
bills have 'seen introduced and five have failed ; but only
three out of the five—those introduced in 1859, 1860, and
1866 —were discussed—the others having been withdrawn;
and therefore they were the only ones which can be said to