The Sun.
London, England, 1804-02-28 00:00:00

he made in this :till ;
if, on the (Air hand, it
was negatived, . the decision might be , assumed
'by Mitustera, as meaning more than it really did.
Giving, therefore, his sincere thanks' to the Hon.
Baronet for introducing this discussion, 'he coOld
not avoid ,pressing most earnestly isot to
press the question -to -a decision. lf he did, he
should find himself obliged, for the reasons he
:had stated, .to vote against the. 'Motion, . though
if he thought- he. shou-hi 'by that vac be consider.
ed as expressing the slightest shadow of confi-
idenee ina_His Majesty's Ministerso he certainly-
•would not giee-it. He therefore earnestly entreat.
'ed the Hon. Baronet to. withdraW•his motion, and
;thereby to spare hiM the Pain which he would feel,
.if he thought there was the most remote possibility
of such a, construCtioo being put upon his condua..
GREY said, he did not propose to prolong
this discussion a he rose merely for -.the; purpose of
;obtaining an explanation of an expression which. had
fallen- from the CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER,
: which appeared
,to him to he rather of an ambiguous
naamee. He 'felt,: in common with everya other
Member of .thea House, extremely, rejoiced at, the
statement they had received of the improved state
of His 'Majesty's health, box his pleasure was very
much .damped by hearing him alter stating, that
" there Was not at this moment a necessary suspero.
Sion of the Royal Authority,". 'add, '' not with re-
: gard to sttch font-lions as ;lily peculiar emergency
tuight render necessary,'.' . lie should be glad to,
hear the Right Hon. Gentleman repeat his declara-•
tion in a in oe enlarged and unambiguous manner :
because thare.could be nothing more dangerous, than
to haveitsta red.and acted upon that His Majesty was
capable of discharging some of his royal functions.
anal rot .Of others. , The declaration of the Mini-
' ster, if it meant. any thing, must mean that the
Royal capacity VlVas in full vigoiir, or else dreadful
indeed would be the .respoo,ibility of Ministers.
aHe hoped, therefore, the 'Right Finn. Gentleman
would:folly .ekplaita his meaning, or else the }tithe
would' not feel so much pleasure in the declaration
artheiMiniater as they at first might be disposed to.
tech. The assurance .of the Right Hon, Gentleman
have been
,more complete if he had stated that
.iVlini-aters.were enabled.as usual to receive his Ma-
jastyas 'commands, and that they spoke from their
:own knowledge and not from the opinion.olothers.
He. would
,keep his word" with the House, and. not.
enter .into any detail. upon the subjea,• but would
wait for the answej of the Right Hon. Gentlemon.
. The -CHANCELLOR of the EXC/IL:QUisR
said, the Hon. Gentleman had not correaly under-
stood the expression he had used ; the tract he meant
to..caanvey- wits this, that THERF, WAS NOT AT
THIS TIiVIE A- NECESSARY' SUSPENSION.
OF THE EXERCISE OF :THE ROYAL AU.
THORITY.
Si, ROBERT L AW LEY rose toots-sure the House
that it was not from any motives of impatience that
he brought forward this Motion it was because he
considered Parliament to' be placedin a most Uncon-
stitutional situation.; It Was atifllitted‘oll all sides
that' the present crisis was -a most alarming one, and
that the alarm was increased by the danger which
threatened His Majesty ; and upolythesegrounds he
had provoked this discussion, and he left it 'to the
House to determine whether it squid or would not
-establish some mode or limiting the responsibility
of Ministers. He was far front wishing to prodke.
any indelicate discussion, and if it was the senst.of
the House that he ought to withdraw his Notion,'
he had no objeClion to do it ; but he thought Par-
liament was not doing its duty when it left the
Country for fifteen days without information upon
such a subject, and at such a period as the present:
;lir. GRENVILLE. sold, the explanation given
by the Right Hon. Gentleman to a questi m put to,
him by an. Honourable Gentleman
.(Mt. Gary), was
so far from satisfying him, that it only, made the
declaration 'more ambiguous ; and he thought he,
shonld not do his duty if he suffered an observation
• so, explained to pass - without notice. The distin&
words which he Understood the Right Hon. Gentle-
ttao :to use, 'when he first alluded to this most an.
xious and important sobjed, were, that there was not
anecessary suspension the Royal Au.
rhr presento;ity. f any4rnj'(*
aft. which was necessary to be done.
Now,_ he would leave it to the House to determine,
whrthetathis did not mean, that the CHANCELLOR
'of the EXCHEQUER thought himself competent to
decide what were the acts to which it was necessary
that the. Royal Authority should be applied. He
wished to know if he had mistaken the sense oldie
-Right Hon. Gentleman's words ? (Mr. ADDINGTON
,Said " Yes") : if he had, he should be very glad to
,be .corrected.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
.said, he should have thought that the answer which
he gave to 'an .Hon. Gentleman opposite to him;
would have precluded the obserVation of the Hon.
Gentleman who just .sat down.
Mr. GRENFILLE, said, he'really did not know
whether other Gentlemen were in the same situa-
4ion .that he was, but it appeared to him that .every
word. which was gilt:ea. by, way of. explanation, had.
only the effect of ,rendering the suhjel still more'
Clouded and obscure, with a view, as he supposed,
to divert the attention of the House from the real
6 übjett. Without, pursuing this part of the subjea
any farther, he Wished shortly to advert to some
other points which had-occurred in the debate. He
perfedly agreed with his Right Hon. Friend (Mr.
W t_tioxAtt) that according to the theory of the Con-
stitution, when thecapacity for exercising the Royal
Fun6ions had ceased, at that moment Parliament
ought to be informed of the circumstance, not:for
the purpose of immediately proceeding to adopt some-
arrangement, but to enable Parliament to decide
whether it ought or ought not to take any immediate
steps upon the subject or not. It by no means fol-
lowed_ that Parliament was bound to adopt some pro-
ceeding immediately urgn a communication being.
made, because he could easily conceive many cases
in which the discretion• of Parliament would be pro.
perly applied in postponing the adopting of any
measures ; but Parliament being
_ooce informed,
should hold in its own hands the choice of the time
and moment when any. measure should be taken.
Wsliat discretion should not• remain in the hands of
these whia were the King's Servants when the Royal
Fundions were in full exercise. A very general but
erroneous opinion prevailed both within doors and
witli6ut that clic consequence of a rroier, Comriau,

•nication tO.Pailiantiat must tbe adopt:on. of
some -arrangement upon . the tubjeet : ,to this he
could by `no means agree for the reasons he had be-
fore 'stated., Wilco he spike of a proper Comranni.,
cation, he did not mean one froM those who called
theMselves His M stjest y's Confidential SerVac ts, but
from
.the Privy CoUncil after they had examined the
subject. This would prove an additional defence
against the operation of any improper motives, not
that. he meantio insinuate any motives of that kind
in His Majes,ty's Ministers,, hot, the jealousy
expressed ,was, founded upon Constitutional_prin.
ciples,. After such a Cominuoication had been tn,.de
from the, Privy Council, it wptild then remain for,
Parliament to decide 'how they were to. at% He
dwelt so long upon this subjeCt,--because it appeared
to hire ormof,-the greatest importance. • Whence
did ;Ile Ministers their information 1. From
the Medical Gentletnen, and he should be• glad to
a,lc what reasons there 'woe why the Commoos of
Eugland.shotdd take that, iolormation.from Mini-
sters- which, they might, have from the Physicians
'themselves ? . What:was -the ptakice of the .House
upon ordinary cases ? In the instance which 'most
naturally occurred to him, viz. that, of an Eiedion
Committee, if a Member was ill, a Modica! Gentle.
man was examined at the Bar ; if he stated that the
Member was
.so ill as not to be able to attend the
Committee, he wits,4ischarged altogether from his
attendance if his illness was ',likely to be of short
duration, the Committee wits postponed. for a day.
This might, appear a. trifling comparison, hut' he,
saw no reason why they should he su strid •upon
small occasions, and be inattentive upon those
of greater importance.. Uponthe whole -•then,!it
Was his.opinion that this ought not to be: consi.
dered as a .question- of confidence in Ministers,
and that it was the duty of Parliainent to be in-
formed of the state of tie .King's health from the
best authority,. viz. from the Physicians who at'.
tended_liis Majesty. Would not the. Country be
better satisfied with regard 'to its situation if it. salt,
Parliament properly and duly informed and exercis-
ing its own judgment' upon the subject, and dis,
charging- tho,,t: fun6tions. hick their duty 'and the
safety. of the State req4r'e,; t:,ern to perform
The question f Picij Inpment 'was then init. and
negatived without a di, isinn.

~ • • • • VW.UN
The 'cittrition,wali then put 9n the second, reading
of the. Voiumcei Biili

Afr..T. GRE:,‘'VILLE aniMalverteci at consider-
able length on -the Correspotacleacc.. re_lative
,to the
Volunteer .SYsteni, in whiesli'he pointed out several
incongruities in the co:hind cf •Mini;,:ers with te-
speef to the Volunteers.
Lard 0 i'Bl-8.-.STDN spoke also' at considerable
leng 1, hut in so .low a tone of . voice that we
could not catch the train of his argupent.
Mr. Secretary YORKE replied in detail • to the
observations of Mr. 'l'. Grenville. In the course
of his Speech .he adverted to the quancitylof Arms
in store at different periods, and the quantity de..
livered out since the commencement of the present
NITUr, which he stated as follows':
Musquets in Store.
_ _

1755 - 36,04
177.; - -
- - 984488
1343 - - 94,786
- - • - - 92,131
1793 - - . 53,02 . •
4803 - - - 329.244
Number of Mus'quets delivered out.
l the first three months 7 1803 - 101,034
Up to the 27th Feb. 1804.
And a great number of Pistols and other Arms.
Of these at7,r96-had been delivered to the *Vo-
lunteers of Great Britain, and I 8 2,05 t to the' Vo.
luntiers of Ireland. About 25,000 Musquets had
been provided by the Volunteers themselves. To ,
prove the advaorages in point of recruiting derived
to the Regular Army from the Volunteer Carps, he
stated that, from. the St. George's- Corps in the
Metropolis, from the s ith of March 1795, to the
31st of FiCcember t 801, 337 mil had entered into
' the Regular Regiments. That,Corp's did not con-
sist of more than 60t men, and of 'about the same
number now., It had, •dtrriog the present War,
given 40 to the Regiments of the Line. He also stat.
cd that out of A Regiment at Norwich, consisting of
not more than 300, 25 had'entered into the Line.
Mr. PITT said, he should nbt have been anxi-
oos to have taken any part in the present dis-
k had agreed with hiS Right Hon. Friend
c(mussri.orTi i.f
PsviLLs) 'that such discussion ought
to be confined within the narrow limits of ake Bill
before the 'House, On the contrary, he was of
opinion tliat it Was-Perlealy natural and consistent,
not Merely to discuss the present Bill, but,also to
.consider the Volunteer system ; they were to con-
-sider likewise how' far that' sysem Was adequate or
defedive, and how far it might be brought in aid
of other measures of defence. It -was their duty to
consider what defeZ,is there were to he remedied in
that system, and what remained to be done to render
as effeCtual as possible our whole plan of defence,
in order that we might be enabled to meet that great
crisis Which had been long hanging over our heads,
and which now seemed tube rapidly approaching. It '
was also material that they shuld.consider how far
that plan might be rendered permanent as a system,
not merely calculated totneet the first moments ofdan-
ger, but how long it might be rekoered coeval with
the duration of the contest in which we were now
engaged. They must study the most effednal Means
of prosecuting that contest until it arrived at a ter-
mination •fir different• to that conclusion Which
closed the late War Nar ought the discussion to.
stop there; and here he agreed, that it was not pos-
sible,to decide upon a whole system irra diScussion
n mere details, when they must blend the consi-
deration of the Volunteer -Syte,in with that of how
far it was connected with other points of our
force. It was not his' intention to trespass 'upon
the time of the House at that late hour, parti-
. cularly upon matters of detail,• which would more
properly come before the Xommittee ; 'but he
still thought it necessary to give a general view of
the subjett, in'order that- other Gentlenien might
turn his ideas in their mind, and thus come better
prepared to decide upon them in the eornmittee.—
Thu were, above all, to consider what further aids
were, necessary, for our.safety-upon the present occa.
sion ; and also, whether the system now adopted,
with.all the necessary amendments, might not be
continued for years to come; and whether they

Might by mean o,- of it create a new era, anti through
the medium of a happy combination of force; for ever
lay asleep that danger witla which the despot, of
the present tithes theaatened the worldoHe did not,
thetefore, over-rate the question,,when he said, that
they sivere to discuss how far the spirit and the pa_
triotism of the Country might be raore effedually
di-
rected to its objea, and better secured to its porpose;
They were .not then to discuss whether a Volun.'
tear Force was necessary or not at the present mo-
ment, for that pOlot had been already decided. He
knew there were some who differed as to the mode
of aratoilii which ought to. have been adopted with
resped to the. Volmiteers, and also as to their use;
but;the question for the consideration' of Govern_.
men r, and of Parliament, was, how a sufficient Force
could. he provided calculated to. meet the impending
danger ? Regular Forte could not he kept up-inn
sufficient numbers .; the only remaining measure to
obtain a Volunteer Force, or if that failed, compel,
led
.Iseviea.pf the .same destription, hut who might
not be takeo. wholly ..away from .their avoca.,
tiona. Whatever..difference of opinion might
prevail as to .a Volunteer Force, he, thought no man
would
~say, that this moment of imminent danger
was the precise period in whiCh , they should bet
obout thocircuitous and difficult process of changing
the nature .;of the. Volunteer. System. Whatever
might be the opinion, of, the Right Hon. Gentle.
man (Mr. Gaaaavo o or) or of hi,s.Right Hon. Friend
(kir. W t ?HAM), or of other HonoNlembers, upon
-that system, he could ~not ,stippose, when, in the
• course-of aJew weeks, we might have to encounter
the most:forooidable attack that
,could be made by,
all tilt lavish .power of despotism,. and the most
desperate that could be didated oy uncontioulect
passion, that- they would think this the moment la
consider „what was to-be done for futurity, instead
of how they. were to provide- for- immediate sea
entity. It._ was now too. late to ask .what
difference. itt , the system 'would have rendered .{e
moreeffaaqual; they had prbceeded ascertain way on
the road, acid if they had not gone far enough,
was it. noti 'better to 'quicken their pace than to
tread - back. their steps, and enter upon a new
system •plan of defence I 'ln aiming at a
general ,and complete Force, -His' Majesty's. Mini.
stern ought not to let any, narrow economy scold in
t hewayolrender log that force as efficient as possible,
during the shOrrspace *Well yet remained before the
attack might be commenced: He did not mean to
say, Islam- he' spoke in.allusion to the- Enemy,
however he. might think . that - our means of de.
fence—fell, far shim of . what 'might have been
done, and that ether additional measures. might
have been resorted to—he did notamean. to soy
that he 'dreaded the result .of such s a contest ;
but he was sure the House would not. be flattered by
being told; that in a' conflict -in whiCh Englishmen
were fighting for every thing that was dear to them,
it was 'enough to say that we' had the means of
finally obtaining victory. The-Goverritnent and the
Parliament were not merely to look to the means of
finally obtaining victory, but to the means of ioflid-
ingspeedy vengeance upon that inordinate ambition
which was now so extravagantly direded against
Great Britain, :at. a time - when nearly the rest of
Europe were in -an- abjea and prostrate state, and
whenarthallenge - was audaciously given to sts, that
we could not meet France single (lauded. They
ought 's° make the result of such a contest an example
to their posterity ; they were not merely to look
to the final issue, but it, was their duty to omit,
no means which could- save one squate mils
of territory or one individual. It was not merely
that they were to rely upon the spirit of English_
men ; but the lives and blood of those who had step.
ped forward in the defence of their. Country, were a
sacred trust reposed in their hands, and if it should
happen that thativalurible blood should be sacrificed
which might otherwise be. saved, they would be
deeply answerable. He therefore hoped he should
not be Considered as pushing. his ideas too far, when
he called for these measures which might render as
effedual as possible that force. to which we must in
a great' measure trust at the present moment. He
should consequently suggest in the Committee on
this Bill, whatever
,appeared to him to be neces-
sary for the benefit of the Coontry, and though
he felt the great, disadvantages which resulted
from measures being originated by those who
were not in Official.. Situations, it yet became
the duty of every one at a crisis like the ,pre-
sent, to state his ideas upon the subjed. With
respell: to the Volunteer Force in'general, he mutt
'say, that he thought it in some measure inadequate,
because there was not sufficient time. allowed in ex-
ercise,. to render -it effedual ; that there was not
sufficient means of instrudion provided, and that
there were not sufficient regulations for the main.
:tenance:Oil,gdod order, and discipline. As to time,
it having been laid down, that the Volunteers- were
to acquire
°the same species of discipline as the Re.
gulars, he maintained, that twenty. days exercise
,Collettively, was inadequate to answer that purpose;
It was unnecessary to argue this—for who could sup-
pose,- that ;four or. five hours attendance at different
times, WithMit any regulations to enforce .that
attendance, or even attendance duriog exercise,
could enable a-Volunteer to acquire his necessary
discipline ? Fit knew that this had been made an
iThjedion 'tilt-Ist the system altogether, but the
rime miisrhe'enlarged to render that system effec.
tivea It however, 'necessary that sonaething
Should bedbne in that tesped during the short time
that probably- rem.ained before the
,attack was made
upon us, and that the Voltinteers should be imme.
diately invited to assemble on permanent duty, for
the purposeof making-that profiCiency in discipline
whiCh was sThl wanting.' The spirit which :actuated
that patriotic body of men was apt to become unbent
and relaxed for want of some stimulus to animate
it, but he was Sure if Parliament appealed to them
uporathe present occasion, to comeforward to peffed
thethselves in that state of disdipline of which they
stood in need, that such an appeal would have all the
desired effect upon British minds. It might pro, •
Willy be advisable to hold out a moderate bounty
to induce them to assemble, and perhaps a bounty
of seven shillings to those who agreed to assemble
on permanent duty for three weeks, or for not less
than one week, might has e the desired effed. From
this, however, he excepted the -troops of the me-
tropolis., but not at the same time wholly excluding
them, By this measure more would be done in that