The Sun.
London, England, 1867-07-02 00:00:00

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE BILL.

The house went into committee. The discussion was
resumed on the question that the following clause moved
by Colonel Dyott be added to the bill :—" That any person
possessing a freehold, copyhold, or leasehold property
within the Parliamentary boundary of any borough, and
residing within seven miles thereof, shall be entitled to be
registered as a voter for such borough, and to vote at the
election of a member or members to serve in Parliament
for such borough, in respect of such qualification, and not
for the county in which such borough is situated."
Dlr. BAXTER appealed to the hop :and gallant member

to withdraw the amendment. He (Mr. Baxter) had made
up his mind to do everything in his power to facilitate the
passing of the bill during the present session ; but, look-
ing at the amendment which at present stood on the paper,
and considering they were then in the month of July, he
feared that if each amendment were to be discussed there

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would bo little hope of the house passing the bill this

year.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said Mr. Howard strongly opposed
the amendment, and Mr. Scourfield was favourable to it,
and remarked that it was not because a similar proposal
had been already fatal to one Reform Bill in the year 1859
that therefore it was to be withdrawn. .

Mr. GILPIN said, as the proposal would result in a
wholesale disfranchisement of county voters, he hoped the

house would reject it.
Mr. BRIGHT strongly objected to the proposed clause.
After some discussion, the clause was negatived.
A clause to check the practice of creating rent-charges
for the purpose of conferring the franchise was proposed
by Mr. Neate and supported by Mr. Gladstone ; but, being
opposed by Mr. Disraeli, it was withdrawn, Mr. Neste pro-
mising to bring it forward again if ho received any en-

couragement
The new clause was moved by Mr. CANDLISH, to do-

prive all electors of their votes who are employed for re-
ward at an election as agents, canvassers, messengers, or
in similar capacities, and to make it a misdemeanour in the
elector so employed to vote, and in the candidate or agent
who employed him. It was discussed at great length, and
in a more than usually discursive manner. Objection was
taken at the commencement by Mr. Crawford and Mr.
Powell to the inclusion of agents, whose value to a candi-
date did not consist in the single vote they possessed, and
Mr. Gladstone took the same view. Mr. Powell suggested
that the point should be referred to the Select Committee
on the Bribery Bill ; but Sir R. Collier and others replied
that it was out of the scope of that committee, and ulti-
mately the clause was passed with an amendment inserted
by Mr. Neato extending the disqualifying period of em-
ployment to six months before the election, and with the
exclusion of the latter part of the clause, which subjects
the employer to the penalties of a misdemeanour.
Mr. lIORSPALL then brought up his clause conferring
a third member on Liverpool, Manchester, and Birming-
ham. In support of it he showed, referring in detail to
the statistics, that in point of population and property
these towns were on a par with, and Liverpool, with which
he was best acquainted, was superior to, the city of Lon-
don, and in intelligence also, he contended, they had an
equal claim to a larger representation.
Mr. ADDERLEY opposed the clause, arguing that the
principle of representation by numbers on which it was
ba3ed was new, and utterly opposed to the old principle
of local representation—that each place should send the
number of members, and insisted that the innovation would
degrade the representation, by making members mere
counters instead of delegates to consult the public good.
The clause, he objected, was proposed with an ultimate
view to the representation of minorities by the multiplica-
tion of unicorn constituencies ; and he urged that no town
would be better represented either in its local or general
interests by an increase in the number of its representa-
tives, and that if the amendment were accepted these great
towns ought to be subdivided, as was proposed in the case
of Glasgow.
Mr. 11. LEWIS advocated the claims of Marylebone, on
the ground of population and property, to at least two ad-
ditional members.

Mr. SMOLLETT complained of the resuscitation of a
question already disposed of, and urged the committee not
to convict itself of vacillation by accepting an amendment
which was inconsistent with one of the main principles of
the redistribution scheme—that there should be no uni-
corn constituencies, agreeing with Mr. Adderley, that if
additional members were given to these towns they ought
to be divided. His main objection to the bill was that he
distributed the " mob" constituencies which wore about to
be created, and ho apprehended that to increase their mem-
bers would be to make the house more unmanageable.

Mr. GOSCHEN, in support of the clause, combated the
objection that the members for largo towns were over-
whelmed with private business, and argued as they had
more varied Imperial interests to represent than the mem-
bers for small towns, their numbers ought to be increased.
On many subjects, too, the large towns had a separate in-
terest from the small towns; and as an additional argu-
ment he pointed out that half the borough population was
contained in the large towns of over 150,000 population,
which returned only 34 members.
Mr. SANDFORD replied to Mr. Goschen that he him-
self was a signal proof that it did not require a multiplica-
tion of members to secure the representation of the most
varied interests.
Mr. T. CHAMBERS,. taking all the arguments urged
in favour of the clause, showed that they applied with
greater force to the case of the metropolitan boroughs,
and insisted that tho acceptance of this amendment by
itself would but increase the anomalies of the present

system.
Mr. BRIGHT argued that it was not more representa-
tion by debating power that the groat towns required, but
an increased voting power more commensurate with their
wealth, population, and the greatness of their interests,
and reminding the committee that as it was from these
large towns had come the movement which had brought
Reform to its present position, ho predicted that when
they began to turn their minds to this question of redis-
tribution, the now electors in these groat centres, if this
demand wore refused, would see that the house had not
dealt justly by them, and would, in the very next Par-
liament, demand that some of the smallest boroughs should
be extinguished and their members added to the great
towns. For the sake of three members he urged it was
unwise to miss a satisfactory settlement.
Mr. BLECROFT explained that ho had voted against
Mr. Laing's amendinen+, not because ho was opposed to
giving a third member to Leeds, but because it was a cri-
tical division, and ho did not wish to endanger the passing
of the bill ; and after some observations from the other
member for Leeds, Mr. BAINES, in support of the clause
and its extension to the claim of Leeds,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, replying to
Mr. Bright's argument that the great towns required in-
creased voting power, urged that their interests were not
represented merely by the two members they sent to Par-
liament., bat by all the members representing s'milar inte-
rests—the metropolis, for instance, could command at least
80 members. After touching on the mode in which our
present legislative machinery had adapted itself gradually
to the representation of the varied interests of an empire,
and explaining once more the spirit in which the Govern-
ment had drawn up their redistribution scheme, both in
relation to the counties and towns, ho repeated his objec-
tions to the accumulation of members, and finally an-
nounced, as a compromise, that Government would accede
to the claim of a third member not only for Liverpool,
Manchester, and Birmingham, but for Leeds, feeling sure
that this waiving of their principle would not be pushed to
au inconvenient extent, but that their scheme for the ade-
quate representation of counties should not bo interfered
with—these four seats must be got exclusively from a re-
modelling of the borough schedules of the bill. Salford,
for instance, must yield to Manchester the additional seat
ho had proposed to give it (here there were decided ex-
pressions of disapprobation from the Opposition), and other
boroughs in the schedules would have to submit to a simi-
lar sacrifice.
This concession on the part of the Government called
up

General PEEL, who, avowing that if ho could accept
the franchise in the bill, he should be ready to go to equal
electoral districts, predicted that the whole redistribution
scheme would be swept away by the next Parliament, and
energetically repudiated all responsibility for the measure.
Amid loud cheers from the Opposition, and oven from some
of his own party, he declared that three points stood out
conspicuously in these debates—that nothing had less vita-
lity than a " vital point," that nothing was loss secure than
a "security," and that nothing was more elastic than the
conscience of a Cabinet Minister.

Mr. GLADSTONE admitted that this was not a ques-
tion between town and county, but between different
classes, and while accepting the concession as a groat boon
he warned the Government that the proposal to got those
four seats at the expense of large towns would not bo satis-
factory.

Mr: Neville-Grenville and Mr. 11. Berkeley urged the
claim of Bristol to a third member. Mr. Baxley and Mr.
Cheetham deprecated the proposal to deprive Salford of
its expected member, and Mr. Sergeant Gaseleo urged the
Government to revert to the suzgestion ho had made some
time ago to disfranchise all boroughs under 5,000. Mr.
Laing asked whether the Government would state to-day
the boroughs which wore to be eliminated, on which Mr.
Disraeli declined to pledge himself. After some conversa-
tion as to the best mode of procedure, Mr. Sandford post-
poned his amendment that two of the members be taken
from the city, and the Chairman put the question that the
clause be road a second time. There were loud cries of
"Agreed," but several members on the Ministerial benches
persisted in pressing a division, when the clause was car-
ried by a majority of 231-297 to 63, and the eommittee
then adjourned until to-day at 2 o'clock.

The third reading of the Railway (Guards and Pas-
sengers' Communication) Bill was carried on a division
by 43 to 5.
The other business was disposed of, and the house ad-
jcurned at a quarter to 2 o'clock.

The State Auditor of Virginia announces that
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