The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-19 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 19, 1858.

at Haslar 40 or 50 gunboats were so drawn up that they
could not be launched for two months, and inquire also
whether the Admiralty was properly carried on. The
commission should not be composed of Lords of the Ad-
miralty or of any who had served in that capacity, but
of men experienced in the service who were not warped
by red-tape. Such a commission, he believed, would
pay well for the service done ; and he therefore begged
to move,—" That an humble address be presented to
her Majesty, praying that she wid be graciously pl9ased
appoint a commission to inquire into the best means of
manning the navy and improving its management, with
a view to reduce its ex2enditure without impairing its
efficiency." _ _

Mr. LINDSAY said he believed the difficulty at
preE eat experienced in manning our navy formed one of
the most important subjects to which the attention of
the house could be directed. He confessed it appeared
to him that a committee of the house would form a
better tribunal than a commission for inquiring into the
question. There was a difficulty experienced in the
manning of our ships of war which was not telt in the
manning of our merchant ships. Now that was a ques-
tion which ought to be inquired into by a committee,
which could consider many more important quesCons
relatirg to the subject than a commission could do.
He thought that the inquiry ought to extend to every-
thing connected with the dockyards, which, in his
opinion, could be placed upon a much bettor footing
than they were at present, and at a less expense (hear).
Admiral BUNCOMBE, who had given notice of an
amendment for the appointment of a select committee in-
stead of a commission, said he thought that a committee
of that house would be better able to elicit information
on the important subject of manning the navy than a
commission. At the present moment there were four
ships, the finest of their class, the Marlborough,
Euryolus, Renown, and Racoon, which were unable to
' proceed to their stations for want of men, though the
first two had been in commission three months, and the
last two six months. The time was come when this
subject of manning the navy must be thoroughly inquired
into, and means provided for remedying the deficiencies
which undoubtedly existed in our present system. In
1856, at the end of the Russian war, Sir F. Berkeley
said in that house that the war had thoroughly shown
our weakness in this respect—that we had got to the
end of our tether when peace was made, and that had
the war continued he should have been puzzled to say
how we should have got on for men. The idea was
most humiliating. (Hear.) It the sums voted by that
house were efficiently applied, a general system of man-
ning the navy might be established which would place us
in complete security so far as the supply of seamen was
concerned. He was not aware until he came down to
the house that the Government intended to grant a com-
mission, but having put his notice on the paper, he
should move it, and leave it in the hands of the house
to deal with as might seem best. The gallant admiral
conoluded by moving as an amendment that a select
committee be appointed to inquire into the best means
of manning the navy and of improving its management,
with a view to reduce its expenditure without impairing
its efficiency.
Mr. LINDSAY said he should prefer a select com-
mittee, since the question was far too important to be
eft to commission. A Royal commission would to a
certain extent be a secret committee of inquiry. The in-
quiry ought to be extended to everything connected
with the dockyards, in which he believed there was a
great deal of waste labour. (Hear, hear.) He believed
that 10 men in the merchant service would do as much
work as 15 in the Royal navy.
Admiral WALCOTT preferred a commission to a
committee, because thoroughly able naval officers, not
only in, but out of that house, could conduct the inquiry
if a commission were appointed. The question of man-
ning and managing the Royal navy was of momentous
interest to the country. Ever since he had become a
tnembe,r of that house he had from time to time attempted
to impress upon the First Lord of the Admiralty the
iniportance of 12 sail-of-the line, at all timosrea;dy 'to
defend our coasts against invasion. Iu forus'tFslayil we
; had an abundance of daredevil sallore to ipiOte,CAtiks,in
case of emergency, and he hoped for- the more"
attention would be given by the Admiralty to our home
defences. The manning of our navy had been rendered
more difficult by the introduction of steam into the mer-
cantile navy. Steam had dispensed with the services
of many men in that which used to be the great
nucleus of the Royal navy ; and scarcely any appren-
tices were now to be found in it. Moreover, more
foreigners were now employed in the merchant service,
because they could be obtained at a cheaper rate than
our own seamen. Nevertheless those who had at heart
the defence of our shores need not be much alarmed, for
he believed that there were in our merchant service
180,000 men. The days of impressment had gone by,
and he was glad of it, for impressment was little less
than slavery. We were not in so melancholy a condi-
tion as the hon. and gallant admiral had represented with
regard to our navy, but almost every other statement of
his was perfectly true. It was true that in war our
seamen were not allowed to go on shore for three, or
five, or seven years ; but to say that they were never
allowed during those periods to see the face of a woman
was going a little too far. {Sr C. Napier.—l alluded
to the ships in the Tagus.] Women were allowed to go
on board the ships in the Mediterranean and the West
Indies every second day to supply the seamen with
clean ctothe.

Inrd C. PAGET thought that a committee of that
house would be able to procure better evidence than a
Royal COMllligAioll3, which would, most likely consist of
very distinguished old naval officer", some of them pro-
bawdy now belonging to or who had belonged to the Ad-
iniralty. He had the greatest respect for them, but
there was a kind of odour of sanctity about them (a
laugh) which would prevent them from receiving the
opinions of younger officers. Another important rea-
son why he should prefer a committee of the house to a
royal commission was the delay which would take place
in the appointment of the latter. Thera were many
gentlemen in that house well qualified to serve upon[uela
a committee. There was the hon. member for Norfolk,
a perfect Christopher Columbus. (A. laugh) Then there
was the bon. member for Ashton, and there were many
naval officers of experience in the house. At the
present moment the country had in the Coast Guard
a perfect defence against any invasion. That was a
force of great utility, having been recruited as it was
by seamen paid off at the close of the war, and
having been under the able superintendence of Com-
modore Eden. (Hear, hear.) There was, however,
no opportunity for members of that force again going
to sea, and it was most important to consider how its
ranks should be reinforced, for, able and efficient
as it was at present, unless proper means were taken to
recruit its ranks, it might come to consist of a set of men
like those complained of by the gallant admiral foe always
reading the Bible with their spectacles on. [Sir C. Na.
pnaie ld lre
wouldhrye
de an observation which did not reach the
g
sailors should
that the members of the force would become elderly men
a
and activity which was so essential, and therefore he
thought that some steps should be taken to keep that
gallery.]
made
he meant no offence, it was proper thata
read their Bibles, but what he meant was
,consequently, not be possessed of that energy
admirable
pfroorvceedin
mi
ds
ep roefs e
manning
taefficienttathsefl le In h
e. t
would
ldoiin
not
naval officer was perfectly satisfied with the exertions
which had been made by the right hon. gentleman at the
head of the Admiralty, but he found fault with part of
his administration. In 1852-3 there was a committee of
naval officers appointed to inquire into the question of
manning the navy. They reported that it was desirable
to employ ships of war for the purpose of transport in-
stead of hired vessels, where that could be done without
prejudice to the public servic3 ; but their recommenda-
tion had never been carried into effect, notwithstanding
the number of shies available for that duty. At Liver-
p eel there was a line-of-bettle ship, commanded by an
excellent officer, and which was fit to go to sea to-mor-
row, and yet he had seen in a newspaper that the steamer
Pacific, of 1,500 tons burden, had been taken up to carry
troops to Ireland, and in the same newspaper he read
that the City of Manchester, a steamer of 2,109 tons,
had been chartered to convey troops to Gibraltar. Now
these were services which could wr 11 have been per-
formed by ships of war, and in his opinion the statement
which was sometimes made, that carrying troops inter-
fered with the discipline of a man of war was entirely
without -foundation. On the contrary, he thought
that if more ships were employed a larger num-
ber of able seamen would be retained in the service
of the State. In the estimates of the present year
he found a sum of 495,0001. for the hire of transports.
Now, the estimate this year for carrying out the recom-
mendations of the committee was 50,0001. If a part of
this useless expenditure of 495,000/. was applied towards
keeping up men-of-war transports, employment would be
found for half-pay officers who were now wasting their
best years on shore, while a great saving would be
effected in the item of tran,porte. He had suggested on a
former occasion that the crew of the 11 .yal Albert, three
decker, instead of being turned adrift upon the world,
should be kept together and made to do the work of the
dockyard at Portsmouth or Plymouth. In the dockyare's
we had now 500 men einpl iyed in our boys, 400 riggers,
and 2,500 labourers, the work performed by all of whom
might be done by the sailors of our fleet. He was con-
vinced that, without adding a shilling to the r xpenditure
of the country, we naught obtain a ltrge accession to our
force of regular seamen ; and he trusted that a com-
mittee would he appointed to take these matters into
cersiderae

Mr. BENTINCK contrasted the thinness of the house
on that occasion, when a question involving not the
honour or the reputation, but the very existence of the
country was under discussion, with the crowded attend-
ance the other evening, when the simple issue was
whether certain gentlemen should sit on one vide of the
house or the other. During a portion of that important
discussion only 15 members were present, though that
assembly was the reeresentative chamber of the firs
maritime nation in the woll J. It had been shown
that what was called economy in these matters WAS
in nine cases out of ten nothing but extravagance
and waste. There was no u, e blinking the fact,
that when they tAlleid of the necessity of maintain-
ing their naval defences they meant simply this—were
' they or were they not in a position to resist attack
from their near,st neighbour I The exact condition of
our naval defences and everything that passed in ow
dockyards were very well known in France, an l it was
therefore quite and absurd to affect any mystifica-
tion about the ma'tr. They had to cousider how far
;hey were able to repel a French invasion, not that he
anticipated anything of that kind. The distinguished
m in now on the throne of France would, no doubt, do
a 1 in his power, in the interest of both countries, to
p .event the outbreak of hostilities hetween them ; but
he was not omnipotent, and after what had recently oc-
curred in England no man could say what might be the
consequences of a casualty. Not withinanding what bad
fAlen from the gallant admiral opposite, it was not very
clear how we could at all .times command a sufficient
numher of seamen for Mbetiog what was termed an emer-
gency, but which simply meant an invasion, without.

maintaining the "continuous service" system. It
appeared that a few months ago we bad not a
single vessel in commission that was efficient for
the purposes of defence, and he believed we were
still in an unprotected state. He was in favour of the
appointment of a committee, which he thought would
be the most expeditious mode of inquiry. That inquiry
ought to extend to the constitution of the Board of Ad-
miralty, which was totally inefficient to perform its
duties. The proof of this was furnished by the fact that
that house was now trying to solve the problem of the
manning of the navy. He entirely concurred in the ob-
servations of his noble and gallant friend (Lord C.
Paget) with regard to the transport service, and was
quite convinced that if he moved for a return of the
cost of that service since the commencement of the Cri-
mean war he should be able to show that the money
wastefully expended upon it would have been sufficient
to build a navy. He hoped that the present Board of
Admiralty would entirely remodel and re-organise our
transport system. (Hear.)

Sir J. PAKINGTON was sorry that the hon. and gal-
lant member for the East Riding of Yorkshire should
have thought that the Government had been guilty
of any discourtesy with regard to this motion ; but he
certainly did anticipate that another debate, of which
the house was now in the middle, would have occupied
every night this week, and that this question would have
been postponed. Turning to the speech of the hon. and
gallant officer opposite (Sir C. Napier) he thought that
he had borne rather hardly upon successive Boards of
Admiralty when he said that it was in vain for any offi-
cer to approach the board, because any representations
from officers of the navy were always treated with indif-
ference. (Hear.) He should himself he exceedingly sorry
to be guilty of any discourtesy either to the gallant
admiral or any other officer of the navy, and from his
experience, which was limited to a very few weeks, he
could not believe that the members of the naval profes-
sion, who succeeded each other at that board, would show
any disiuclination to entertain proposals which might
come from such high and justly respected authorities as
the gallant admiral. He honoured the feelings which
had led the hon. and gallant officer to pre: s this matt r
upon the attention of Parliament ; he fully admitted the
difficulty, if not danger, to which this country was ex-
posed by attention not having been paid to this subject
earlier, but be thought that the house would do him the
justice to admit that a great part of the speech of the gal-
lant admiral was directed to the topics which he himself
brought under the notice ef the house when introducing
the navy estimates. (Hear.) He then expressed in
strong terms the deep sense which he entertained of the
importance of this subject, and stated how anxious he
felt to find some remedy for the existing state of things.
He then referred to the slowness with which our ships
were manned ; but he was happy to inform his hon. and
gallant friend behind him (Capt. Duncombe) that con-
siderable progress had since been made is completing
the crews of the very ships which he had mentioned.
He a'so alluded to what he thought the very unwise dis-
missal of the continuous service men and the paying off
of ships last year, and to the necessity of recomuais-
sinning the same ships this year ; and stated the views
of ithe Government upon that practice of commis-
sioning ships for a short time, which he then and still
thought a most unwise practice, and which he hoped to
amend. He was sure that the gallant admiral and
his hon. and gallant friend behind him would admit that
those were matters which could not be coryected in a
few days or weeks. On the same occasion he stated,
almost in the words of his hon. and gallant friend, that
the defenceless state of our ()coasts was humiliating and
disgeaceful to the country as a naval power. (Hear.)
Since then he had from day to day been endeavouring
in conjunction with the Board of Admiralty to remedy
that state of things, and he hoped with some success.
We had now more ships and men available than we had
at that time. He did not seek to attain impossibilities
by endeavouring to correct in a few weeks evils which
were the result ,of the irupolicy of years; what he
aimed at and what he did not despair of accomplishing
was, to put our navy an such a permanent footing that
England should not again suffer- the same risk and the
same inconvenience to which she was now exposed.
(Rear.) At the same time he must express the regret
with which he had heard the gallant admiral say that
we had no means of defence and no ships. (Sir
C. Napier said that he had not used such an expression.)
lie could assure the gallant admiral that he took his words
down, and they were that we hed no defence whatever
and no ships. No doubt he meant that we had no ships in
lull commission or in the channel. [Hear, hear, from Sir
C. Napier.] In the ports we had some of the noblest
ships that were ever built. (Hear.) At Sheerness, at
Portsmouth, and at Pqmouth, we had some of the no-
blest men-of-war ever launched, which were in the first
condition of steam ordinary and could be prepared for
sea in 43 hours. (Hear.) He was sorry to say that at
this moment we had not the means of manning them so
readily as he could wish, but supposing an emergency
should arise he had that faith in the spirit and energy of
the country that he believed there would be no difficulty
in sending a fleet inter the channel at a very short no-
tice. (Hear, hear.) He was very glad to hear trom I he
hon. and gallant admiral that he did not think that this
country would sanction the resort to any compulsory
manning of the navy or any return to the
system of impressment. (Rear, hear.) He did not be-
lieve the spirit of the country would hear a return to
that system. (Hear, hear.) The only result of its adop-
tion would be to drive our sailors to other countries,
and he hoped that we should never sanction any plan
• for manning the navy more stringent than that adopted
for recruiting the army. (Hear, hear.) If, then, we could
not adopt compulsion we must turn to other means, and
must ends tvour to put our navy on sceperinanent a foot-
ing that we might at all times, and under all circum-
stances, rely upon having a force which should amply
provide for the defence of the country. The real and
practical question was, how that was to be done ? and
he quite acknowledged that that was a fair subject for
inquiry. When notice of the motion was given he stated
in private conversation with the hon and gallant mem-
ber for Southwark that inquiry had already taken place
to a sufficient extent ; but, upon reconsideration, he
had altered that opinion, and he would shortly ex-
plain to the house the reason of the change. The
noble lord the member for Sandwich had asked
him whether he had ever seen the report of the
committee of 1852 with respect to the manning
of the navy. To that report he had alluded
at considerable length upon a former occasion,
when he stated what the noble lord would admit to he
the fact, that the report in question was the origin of all
the improvements recently introduced as regarded man-
ning the navy. He thought that the hon. and gallant
; member for Southwark had hardly done justice to the
contents of that valuable report. The hon. and gallant
admiral had stated that the recommendations of the com-
mittee with respect to bounties and other matters had
not boon carried out, but, with one exception, he had
omitted all reference to those parts of the report which
hail been carried into effect. A great deal of what had
fallen from the hon. and gallant officer on the subject of
the continuoes service system he bad heard with regret,
for he bad no idea that the gallant admiral disapproved
the system of continuance for 10 years. He believed the
dismissal of 3,000 continuance service men by the late
Government was one of the most unfortunate steps con-
nected with the navy which had ever been taken. The
Board of Admiralty had been occupied for the last few
weeks in anxious endeavours to give extended effect to
the continuance service system. Their object was to in-
crease the number of continuance service men. They
were also considering measures connected with the sys-
tem of pensions, and were devoting a good deal of atten-
tion to the present state of the petty officers of the navy,
being anxious to adopt a system under which no man
should be allowed to hold rank and pay as a petty officer
unless he had entered for continuance service. It was by
such measures that they hoped to effect their object of
est ablhbing a good standing navy. The noble lord the
member for Sandwich had referred to the Royal Albert,
and had recommended that the crew should be held to-
gether. That, however, could not be done until all the
Men were entered under the continuance service system.
In addition to that system the country had derived con-
siderable advantage from thecoastguard and naval volun.
teers. The establishment of the corps of naval volun-
teers was entirely o wing to the committee of 1852. It
might be termed a marine militia, and he thought the hon.
and gallant member for Southwark would hardly re-
commend that more compulsion should be resorted to
wOh respect to it than was now adopted in the case ef
the land militia, at all events until it had been proved
that the present system had failed. At present the vo-
lunteer plan was most successful, and solar as the naval
volunteers and the Coast-guard were concerned we had
a reserve which, though nut so numerous as it ought to
be, was still very effective. The noble lord tie member
for Sandwich bed expressed a fear that the Coastguard
were allowed to become rusty and unsuited to sea ser-
vice. That was a point to which the Board of Admi-
ralty were directing their attention. They hoped to
perfect a system under which the seagoing po tiers of
the men should be kept in constant activity. With re-
spect to the three most important points c onnected with
the navy—the continuance service system, the Coasts
guard, and the naval volunteers—the committee of 1852
had conferred great benefits upon the. country, and had
rsndored unnecessary any further inquiry. But there
was one branch of the subject to which the attention ef
that committee had not been sufficiently directed—he
meant the value and cepabileee3 of the mercantile marine
as an auxiliary to the Royal navy, and it was here, he
thought, that further inquiry might take place with ad-
va eye. Since the committee drew up their report consi-
derable changes had occurred in the constitution ( f the
mercantile marine, and in consenting to a further in-
quiry he by no means wished to throw the slightest
„ ,;ne upon the gallant and very distinguished officer wire
eunducted the investigation of 1852. It was of the ut-
most importance, however, that means ,hould be found
for makieg, the mercantile marine more useful to the
navy in case of emergency, and with that view hs
thought it desirable that some inquiry should be insti•
cutest. Teen came ths question whether the investiea-
tiou should be intrusted to a commis .ion or to a com-
m ttee. He pre f. rred a connni,sion. There was no reason
why a commission, as aeticipated by tee noble lord the
member fc r Sandwich, shou'd consist exclusively
t naval officers and Lords of the Admiralty ; on the
c intrary, one of his reasons for preferring a commission
to a cow:in:tee was that it would enable the country to
;team the assistaece of gentlemen practically accurairoteu
with the mercantile marine. B-sides, it was important
that the inquiry should be carried on and concluded as
irornptly;es possible, and the noble lord the menilo r for
eandwich Was wrong in supposing; that delay wou d be
he necessary result of a commission. If the house ap-
proved a coartei;sion he would take care that there
should be no unnecessary delay in its appointment ; and
when once appointed it might sit whenever it
eithout reference to holidat s or aejeurnments, arid carry
on the inquiry continuously. The result would be that
the public would receive the report with greater prompt-
ness than the well.known dilatory proceedings of a coin-

mittee of the House of Committee admitted of. (Hear,
hear.) Such an inquiry would be better conducted
by a commission than by a committee of 15 mem-
bers of Parliament, many of whom would not, of
course, be cognisant of all the difficulties and intricacies
of the subject. To this extent he was willing to meet
the proposal of the hon, and gallant member for South-
wark, but he could not consent to the second portion cf
the motion. He by no means denied the great import-
ance of the subjects to which the hon: and gallant admi-
ral had referred, but what were they I The gallant ad-
miral had adverted to the constitution and working of
the dockyard-, to the whole constitution of the Board of
Admiralty, and to the whole management of the Royal
Navy. Now, he asked hon. members how soon did
they think there would be a chance of obtaining any re-
port, either from a committee or commission, if the in-
quiry was not to be confined to the question of manning
the navy, but to be extended to all those other subjects..
He thought it one of the most unbusiness-like proposals
he ever heard. The manning cf the navy was a most
important, distinct, and practical question, which a body
of gentlemen might direct their attention to and
make their report on ; but if the gallant admiral
thought the constitution of the Admiralty or of the dock-
yards required correction, let him make a distinct motion
on that subject ; but in the course of a long speech he had
alleged ro reasons why the commission should go into
that extensive inquiry. He might be permitted to say,
however, that the present Board of Admiralty were not
negligent with regard to that subject and other subjects.
They were now engaged in organising two committees.
To one of them was to be intrusted an inquiry into our
steam machinery and the best mode of applying steam to
the Royal navy. That was one large subject of inquiry of
great importance. Toe other committee was to investi-
gate the present system of the dockyards. It appeared
that in reference to efficiency and economy some inquiry
was necessary. He was now preparing a committee of in-
quiry on that subject, and he believed that by such a coin-
mittee the inquiry would be more effectually carried out
toan by embarrassing a committee or commission with the
investigation of the whole of these subjects. He would
give the house some little idea of the extent of these in- ,
quiries by stating that a very eminent individual connected
with the mercantile marine informed some of the gentle- •
men organising these committees that the different beacs
of inquiry could not be satisfactorily gone through
under three years. He mentioned this to show that the
gallant admiral was preparing more work than any com-
mittee or commission could satisfactorily perform.
(llear.) These were the reasons why he could not con-
sent to the latter part of the motion, and therefore he
should suggest that the motion should conclude with the
words, " manning the navy." With that alteration he
was willing to consent to the motion. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON thought that they were all
agreed as to the great importance of the subject to
which his hon. and gallant friend had so ably called the
attention of the house, and he should not, therefore,
trouble the house with any observations in support of
the object he had in view. The only question on which
there was any difference of opinion was to the relative
advantages of a committee or commission. Perhaps
either of these means of inquiry would very suffi-
ciently accomplish the object in view, but he thought ;
that there were reasons why a c unmission was
preferable to a committee. Some of these reasons bad
been indicated by the right hon. baronet opposite. In
the first place a commission was a more " continuous
service" instrument than a committee. L. commission
sat during adjournments and prorogations and could go
from place to place. In taking the evidence, there would
b 3 more facility of interspersing conversations with el- .
auainations, and a greater freedom of communication
between the persons conducting the inquiry and the
persons examined, in the case of a commission than the
formality f proceedings in a committee would probably
allow. (Hear, bear.) He should therefore support the
motion of his hon. and gallant friend for a commission
in preference to the amendment suggesting another
mode of inquiry. (Elear, hear.) The right hon. bare-
net opposite had„enggested the expediency of limiting
the inquiry to the subject mentioned -in the first part
of the suotkoti,-aid be..would:reco:mmend his hon,. and
gallant friend to accept the suggestion. That; subjSck
would be quite sufficient to occupy the commission
for a considerable time ; and his hon. and gallant
friend, if he succeeded by his motion in providing a good
plan for securing the manning of the navy, would accouv
plish a great national object, for which the country
would be deeply indebted to him. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARRE concurred in the statement of the hoe.
member for Norfolk, that if they wanted a good article
they must give the market price for it, and he trusted as
the continuous service system was about to be restored,
that the house, when the proposition came before it,
would not object to vote the money for the purpose. Ai
the difficulty of obtaining men for the navy had been ad-
verted to, he would observe that there was no difficulty
in obtaining lads from 14 to 17 years of age. They `gele
perfectly willing to enter the service, and would soon I
riss into men ; and when once they began the service-
they were apt to abide by it. If that were so, it
would be worth while to make some expenditure
for the purpose of "receiving a number of these lade,
and training and educating them. He preferred *
committee to a commission, as an instrument of inquiry:
and he presumed that the hon. and gallant admire.'
would not be indisposed to limit his motion in the WO'
ner suggested by the First Lord of the Admiralty.
Mr. BARROW was of opinion that an inquiry by
committee of that house would be more satisfactory
than an investigation by a royal commission.
Sir C. NAPIER thanked the First Lord of the Ad-
miralty for acceding to the appointment of a COMMlS-
sioa, and expressed his readiness to adopt the suggestion
of she right hon, baronet by limiting his motion to the
manning of the navy
Admiral BUNCOMBE withdrew his amendment,
and

The first clause of Sir C. Napier's motion, for the ar
pointment of a commission to inquire into the )014
means of manning the navy, was agreed to.
TITLES TO LAND (SCOTLAND).
The LORI FADVOCATE moved for leave to brief;
in a WI to simplify the forms and diminish the expense
of completing titles to land in Scotland.
Leave was given.
REVISION OF THE VALUATION OF IRELAND,
Mr. GROGAN moved that the house resolve itself
into a committee to consider of an address to het
Majesty praying that directions might be given that the
ratepayers of Ireland be relieved from one-half of the
expenses of the annual revision of valuation, and to ov.
sure her Majesty that the house would make good the
same.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that there were strong grounds for the claim, and he
had called for a report from Sir Richard Griffin on tho
case, which was now in his possession, but which b•
had not been able as yet to investigate. He assured the
hon. gentleman, however, that he would give his serious
attention to the subject.
Mr. GROGAN was willing to leave the matter in the
hands of the right hon. gentleman, and withdrew hie
motion.
WEIGHTS .9ND MEASURES BILL.
Mr. LOCKE moved the second reading of this bill'
Mr. HORSFALL moved as an amendment, that the
bill be read a second time that day six months.
Mr. PAGET seconded the amendment.
After some discussion,
Mr. HENLEY said it was clear, from the diversity
of opinion upcn the subject, that they were not at Pre-
sent in a position to legislate upon it. He therefore ra"
commended Mr. Locke to withdraw his bill.
Alto' some observations from Mr. LOCKE and Mr'
PACKE,
The house then divided, when the numbers were--
For the second reading
Against... 92
Majority again-t the second —•
CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL.
The bill was considered as amended, and the thin'
reading fixed for Tuesday week.
STAMP DUTY ON PASSPORTS BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
The house then adjourned at five minutes to on.
o'clock.