The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-17 00:00:00

EVENING, JUNE 17, 18,58.

Graham) felt confident the opinioreollthalbon: member
for Birmingham and the hon. member for Sheffield
would prevail. (Hear.) He considered
-India should
be governed by a responsible minister, with assistants,
He was glad the Government had given up the seventh
resolution. The scheme, however, before the committee
nearly approached direct nomination, the elective prin-
ciple being embraced in it. Under the present system the
Crown nominated five of the Court of Directors. By
this scheme eight were to be immediately nomi-
nated, and -in the choice of the seven, five
nomicees would exercise a voice in the election.
It was expedient that the scheme should be fully
developed in resolutions; and hs suggested the matter
should stand over till Monday, when they should sit on
consecutively till they came to a decisiun on them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sub-
mitted it would be better to let the 6th and 7th resolu-
tions stand over, and get rid of the 'remainder at this
Bitting. By so doing a bill might be introduced this
week and read a second time on Monday, when the pro-
posed scheme lot the council, the term of office, salary,
&c., could be discussed better than at present, and,legis-
lation for India thereby be completed this session.
Mr. BRIGHT said the mode proposed by the
Chanceller of the Exchequer was bath ingenious and
just. He proposed to get rid of the difficulty by their
saying nothing more about it -(hear, bear)--and the
dropping the resolution. (Langoter.) Resolutions
were determined on to discuss the question, so as not to
change her Majesty's Government on a discussion on
an Indian bill, but as there was to be no change of
Government before India legislation had been com-
pleted he thought it would be desirable to, bring
in the bill as proposed as soon as possible. He ap-
proved of the proposition befora the committee, and he
was anxious to get to a second reading of an India Bill
that he' might address some observations generally on
the government of India at home and in that coountry.
After some remarks from Lord PALMERSTON',
Mr. GLADSTONE said it appeared to be the desire
of the committee riot to come to a decision on the
question to-day, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer
wished the commiittes not to further consider the sub-
ject then. Ho (Mr. Gladstone) thought if that plan were
adopted they ought to drip discussion on the remain.
ink; resolutions altogether, and wait for the bill. They
were not going to decide on the principle of election
or nomination, the tenure of the councillors,
whether they might have seats in parliament ; whether
there should be a secret committee, and what amount
of salary should be given, which, thsugh it sounded
very much like details, were matters of importance,
because they were closely .counected with the
rank, consideration, and dignity of the coun-
cil, and the class of men who were to constitute
the council. If they Iconeeded the proposition of the
council they conceded all these points. If they agreed
to the suggestion of the Government in this instance he
saw no reason for discussing the remaining resolutions,
which, to a great extent, were resolutions of details.
Lord J. RUSSELL agreed with the suggestion of
the right hon. gentleman, and thought it would be
better now to proceed as soon as possible by bill.
He looked upon the,schetne of the Government as a
scheme of nomination by the Crown. He asked an
explanation from the noble lord the President
of the Board of Control relative to patronage,
which would lessen discussion on this point—whs-
ther cadets were to be appointed by com-
petition ; and whether the council was to have communi-
cated to them the despatches on foreign affairs, as well as
those relating to the internal affairs of India. It was
necessary the council should possess a full knowledge of
all that referred to India, and some restraint should be
placed on their going to war. He should raise discus-
sion on the bill on these questions if the explanation
was not satisfactory to him. He thought the remaining
resolutions might be reported to the house that a bill
might be brought in as soon as possible.
Lord STANLEY said it was never the intention of
her Majesty's Government to take a final decision to-day
on the plan he had submitted to the committee, but to
give theta time and opportunity for its discussion and
consideration. (Hear.) He did not consider the mode
of election proposed was an indirect mode of
nomination. The principle of open competition was
valuable, and might be beneficial in its results on the
d'stribution of military patronage, ought to have a fair
trial ; at the same time, he considered it was an expe-
riment, and one which the government ought not to
undertake to do, more than to give it a fair trial, on a
scale sufficiently liberal to permit its being properly and
thoroughly tested. The old patronage ought to remain as
at present as much as possible. The minister should have
a share of it, but the great mass of it should remain
is the hands of the council. He could not then
give a definite opinion as to the second ques-
tion of the noble lord the member for the city
of London ; and with reference to war, he thought
it would be impossible to lay down any definite
plan, because war might arise from local circumstances,
which it would be impossible to avoid before a commu-
nication could be made to this country and Instructions
pent i ut. He thought the resolutions before the house
had answered the purpose for which they were intended.
(Laughter.) Enough had been elicited in debate on this
question, on which to introduce a bill, and her Majesty's
Government were prepared to adopt the suggestion and
bring In a bill as soon as possible. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MANGLES approved of the plan now before the
committee. He thought it would work better than a
council merely nominated or entirely elected. The
secret committee might be abolished to-morrow with ad-
vantage to the Government of India. Their functions
were purely ministerial ; they had only to sign their
names to documents that came to them from the office
of the Board of Control.

Mr. AY RTON expressed his satisfaction at the result,
so far, of the proceedings of committee. They had leare•
ed the view of her Majesty's Government; the natle lord
the member for Tiverton, who was gradually cotninground
to the opinions of her Majesty's G overnment, and those of
the noble lord the member for Llndon upon this subject,
and the house would in conoequence.be in a better posi-
tion to legislate on it. Her Majesty's Government ap-
peared to have appreciated the general views if those
who took an inttrest in Indian affairs. The opening ( f
the Manchester school, if carried out, would be subver-
sive of the happiness of the people of India,and at no dis-
tant day they would be found to be subversive to our rule
in that country. Those who were greatly interested in
the affairs of India had come to a determination that the
opinions of the Manchester school did not prevail in the
Government of India.

Mr. C. FORTESCUE appealed to her Majesty's Go-
vernment if it was worth their while to retain the last
remnant of the electoral system embodied in the scheme
of this day. He thought the appointment of the council
should be by the responsible Minister of the day, and he
hoped that on the second reading of the bill the house
would adopt that principle.
Colonel SYKES was sorry to find the noble lord the
President of the Baard of Control had given up the re-
presentative principle in the formation of the council.
Representation and taxation he (Colonel Sykes) consi-
dered the principle of the British constitution. (Hear,
bear.) It was embodied in the constitution of
the present Court of Directors, and ought to be
extended to this council. The proprietors of India
Stock had hitherto well discharged their duties, and if
necessary the noble lord might increase the number of
that constituency by 4,000, by taking in the retired
officers of the Indian service, both civil and military.
After some remarks from Mr. Du;,l3p, Mr. Meth,
and Sir E. Verney,
Mir G. C. LEWIS thought the noble lord had done
right in not attempting to engraft a constituency iu the
bill, and of limiting the election to a narrow sphere, but
he (Sir G. C. Lewis) did not concur in the limited con-
stituency the noble lord suggested. He considered the
far preferable course would be for the Government to
name the seven Members instead of the present Court of
Directors.

Lord A.V.TEMPEST said various important questions
involved in the resolutions had not yet been discussed,
and he asked her Majesty's Government to give further
time for their consideration. Between this and Monday
was not sufficient time to consider the important ques-
tions involved. Ile was of opinion that a portion of
the Council should be e!ected by an independent con-
stituency. He suggested that the future discassiJu on
this question should be taken at the evening sitting..
Ttie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER pro-
posed that if the bill be introduced, as he hoped it would
be to-day, to take the second reading at the evening sit-
tini: on Thursday ntzt. (Hear, bear.)
Lord PALMERSTON suggested that in the competi-
tive examitmtion for the cadtts, there should be a stan-
dard es•ablished for each branch, but not a very high
one, up to which they expected the candidates to come.
Lord STANLEY agreed in the main with the sug-
gestion of the noble lord the member for Tiverton.
Mr. ELLICE hoped the house in adopting competi-
tive examinations would not run from one extreme to
another, and lose good officers by requiring too high a
standard of education.
After some remarks from Lord CIinfICHILL and Sir
.
WILLOUGHST on examination and finance, the motion
was then withdrawn, and the Ctlairman reported the
resolutions pro forma, as suggested in the debate, fur
the purpose of introducing the bill.
The house suspended its sitting at 10 minutes to four
o'clock.
Tue house resumed at six o'clock.
[LEFT BITTING.]

The following is the seventh resolution referred to in
the debate, and now superseded by the new scheme of
her Majesty's Government :
" That the members of the elected portion of the coun-
cil shall be chosen by a constituency composed of persons
who have previously hold military commissions or civil
appointments in India, in her Majesty's service or in that
of the Government of India, or who. may possess a direct
interest, to an amount to be specified, in some property
charged or secured ou the revenues or territories of India."

STOCKE3ID-CiE RAO-11$.--(.C#is Doy.)

(13i ELEOTRIC TELEaItAPII.)
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