The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-19 00:00:00

MEDICAL REFORM.

Lord TALBOT DE MALAHIDE asked what were
the intentions of Government with regard to medical
reform and the sale of poison,'
The Earl of DERBY sa'd no doubt the subject of
medical reform was of great importance. Nevertheless,
the noble lord must allow him to remind him there
was a certain class of cases to which everybody was
agreed that something ought to be done; but when they
Came to c ►nsider what ought to be done, they disagreed
as to the details. There was no better illustration of that
proposition than the question of medical reform. The
noble lord himself admitted that the members of the pro-
fession were not agreed among themselves as to what
should be dens. During the 20 years he was a member
of the House of Commons he recollected there was a
subject on which some enthusiastic member—generally
a young member—was continually bringing in bills, and
that was to amend the law with regard to salmon fish-
eries. No one could doubt the necessity for medical re-
form. But the noble earl had not done justice to the acti-
vity of the other house in this respect, for whilst last year
two bills were introduced, this year no less than three had
been laid on the table by different members. He was not
prepared to say that the Government were ready to
enter the lists and bring forth a fourth bill on their own
responsibility. The measures to which he had referred
had been introduced by gentlemen well acquainted with
the subject, and it was the intention of his colleagues to
give their best consideration to these measures, with the
view of making an amicable arrangement which should
meet the views of the profession and the public. (Hear,
hear.) With regard to the sale of poisons, the noble
earl was aware that the late Presides t of the Council
appointed a committee, which sat for a considerable time,
and suggested various amendments to the bill before
their lordships' house, which were inserted and reported.
lie had already communicated with his right hon. friend
the Secretary for the Home Department, and requested
him to consult the Pharmaceutical Society, and if it
should be found that any chance ex;sted of carrying a
satisfactory measure, her Majesty's Government would
not hesitate to introduce it. (Hear, hear.)
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
NEW MEMBERS.
Mr. AIOWBRAY (Judge-Advocate) and Lord DUNKEL-
LIN took the oaths and their seats, the former for Dur-
ham and the latter for Galway (County).
IMPROVEMENT OF THE WORKING CLASSES.
Mr. SLANEY then rose to move that it was expe-
dient to establish a standing committee, or unpaid board
or commission, to consider and report from time to time
on practical suggestions likely to be beneficial to the
working classes. He said that as this was a new sug-
gestion he felt bound to give a reasonable ground for
the demand he made on the house and the Government.
It would be the duty of such a tribunal or council to
consider and report on any plan proposed to them, but
not to do anything that would lead to unreasonable
hopes or unbounded expectations. One ground on which
he made this motion was that the committee to which
separate matters relating to the working classes had
been referred, had not worked out the advantages which
might be desired from them or the causes of failure.
Another 01,11 Se which ought to induce the house to take
up this matter was the great change which had taken
place in the circumstances of the working classes within
the last half century. In that period there had been a
great increase of the population in these Wands, it had
nearly doubled, and showed a much greater increase
than in any other country in Europe ; of course this
increase had greatly altered the position of the working
classes. He admitted there had been a great increase
in their average length of life, and in their general com-
forts. There had also been a great change in the com-
parative situations of a large number of these people.
At the beginning of the present century the rural popu-
lation was two to one to the numbers of the civic, but
now the proportion was exactly reversed, and was two
to one the other way. Every ten years the rural popu-
lation had increased ten per cent., but for the same
periods the increase in the population of the towns was
30 per cent. A necessary result of this increase was to
the working ela,ses to live in thickly populated districts;
it also led to a complete separation of classes. Formerly
the working classes lived with those who were their na-
tural protectors ; but now, in some towns, the working
classes formed 40 per cent. of the population, in others it
rose as high as 95 per cent., so that it was evident they
were entirely separated from their natural guardians.
These were great social changes, and he only asked to
have a tribunal, or board, to consider from time to time
the suggestions in favour of the working classes, ren-
dered necessary by them. A consequence of the change
in the position of the working classes was a greater sepa-
ration between parents and children. The latter were ex-
posed to greater dangers, and deprived of the proper
shields against them. He asked the house and the Go-
vernment to grant him a tribunal to consider any sug
gestions likely to benefit these classes. The great body
of the population was now divided into two classes—the
rural and the city : in 1810 there were great complaints
of the distress amongst the peasants, especially in the
southern counties ; in 1817 it still continued, and a com-
mittee was appointed which reported that the abuses in
the administration of the poor law relief tended greatly
to produce it ; in 1819 a similar report was made, but
nothing was done. In 1124 another committee was ap
pointed, on the motion of the noble lord the member
for the City of London, on the subject of labourezV

view it would, he supposed, provide two tables--one set-
ting forth the schemes which the commission recom-
mended, and the other those which it wished to deter
working men from embarking in. The first result of this
would be that all who were connected with the schemes
denounced would band together against the commission,
and, benevolent as were his hon. friend's intentions, per.
haps he would not be able to roach his own office with-
out the a sistance of a body of police. (Laughter.) He
would suppose that a working man laid out his 201. in
accordance with the advice given to him. It might hap-
pen, notwithstanding the best arrangements beforehand,
that the scheme recomeneuded and selected would be
mismanaged and fail.
Mr. SLANEY said his hon, friend had misunderstood
him. What he said was in effect that the commission
should report from time to time as to what was most
likely to benefit the working classes.
Mr. S. ESTCOURT feared the effect would be to en-
courage speculation, and to excite expectations not likely
to be realised. (Hear.) Bare advice would as usual prove
unpalatable, After the commission had existed for a year
or two his lion. friend would advise in vain. Besides
being impracticable his hon. friend's plan would, he be-
lieved, be mischievous, inasmuch as it would be made a
substitute for the caution and intelligence which every
man was bound to exercise for himself. The commission
being issued on the authority of Parliament, men would
be led to depend upon it rather than upon themselves,
and if it led to no good result the discredit of failure
would fall upon Parliament. His hon. friend need not
come to Parliament in order to carry out his object. Why
should he not himself be the unpaid commissioner I In
uld b rzee,
the prove
advice nt
of t o a
private
case the advice given might, like that of some of the
wisest
bare
b een
individual, t he
boat;a n
Par-
liament would not be respensible for the result. He
dbu ptar ito
trusted that his hon. friend would be contented with
having expressed hie views and not press the motion to
a division, and if he did not act upon this suggestion he
should feel bound to divide against the motion.
Mr. SLANEY said, after what his hon, friend had
said, he should withdraw the caution. He wished, how-
ever, to observe in explanation that he had never eon-
templeted wotkinq people being advised how to lay oe
their money, or prevented from relying ou their own
industry, care, and forethought.
Tne motet's was then withdrawn.
TREATMENT OF THE SEPOYS AND INST_TR-
GENT6 IN INDIA.
Mr. RICH then rose to call the attention of the house
to the treatment of the mutinous sepoys and other in-
surgents iu ltalia, and to move for the following papers :
—Copies of any report or despatch relative to the pro-
tection afforded by Maum Singh and others to fugitive
Europeans at the outbreak of the sepoy mutiny. Of
any instructions given to officers in command of troops
as to the treatment of mutinous sepoys or deserters.
And as to natives of Oude (not being sepoys) found in
arms within the territory of Oude. The hon. member
said he wished to call the attention of the house to the
treatment which the rebellious sepoys had received, and
were receiving, in India. In the earlier stages of the
mutiny, and when men's minds were astounded at the
atrocities committed, it was almost impossible to secure
a calm discussion of that subject ; but the time had now
arrived when they might look the Indian calamities
fairly in the face. He hoped that in the observations
he was about to make he should not be misunderstood.
He loathed and detested as strongly as any man could
do the atrooious crimes which had been perpetrated by
the insurgent troops ; but the very fact that the nation
felt so strongly made him anxious that it should stand
clear of any imputation of retaliation or vengeance. As
regarded the early stages of the rebellion, he would
make every allowance for the feelings of those who
found themselves beset with treachery and dan-
ger, and for the stern and resolute manner in which
they stood on their defence. But at the same time he
must pay his tribute of gratitude to Lord Canning for
the manly fortitude with which he held the scales of jus-
tice, unmoved by the cruelties on one side and retalia-
tions on the other. The most extravagant tales had been
told in this country, and had run through it like wild-
fire. Some of those tales were such as made one's blood
run cold. They heard of swarms of mutilated women and
children coming to this country, Well, those most com-
petent to form a correct opinion—the committee of the
society formed for the relief of those who were suffering
through the outbreak in India—stated that after the
most diligent inquiries, extending over six weeks or two
months, they had been unable to ascertain a single case
of mutilation inflicted on any one who had lauded in this
country. The committee very properly remarked that
such cases might exist, but they declared that they were
themselves totally unable to verify one. lie thought it
was but right that this statement should be repeated in
that house ; for while they detested and abhorred the
atrocities committed it was their duty to see that these
were not exaggerated. On the other hand, be believed a
very large proportion of the acts of retaliation attributed
to our soldiers were not committed, and that the burning
of this and that village rested only on the statement of
newspapers, who meant thus to gloeSfy our army, while
in reality they were inflicting upon it injury. In order
to understand this question they must consider the ori-
gin of the mutiny. No one could read the correspon-
dence of Sir Charles Napier without perceiving that a
factious and mutinous spirit pervaded the Bengal army
at the period when it was under his command, and that
it was attributed by him to a want of discipline—that
discipline which was dependent on the existence of tho-
rough confidence between officers and men. From the
report of the committee of 1852 it appeared that not
more than half the officers of a regiment were ever
with it at the sane time. He believed that the mutiny
would never have occurred bad there not been a great
neglect of discipline. Bat beyond this stood the fact
that the European force was most cruelly and unjustifi-
ably diminished. And, moreover, what there was of it
was so placed as not to hold in check the native forces.
A greater portion of the European troops were in the
North-Western Provinces, and in Pegu. In the Cal-
cutta district there was but one regiment. This state
of things gave rise to a temptation, to which, however
well the natives might have behaved, they ought never
to have been exposed. It should be remembered that
about this time the Russian campaign was going on.
Now, Lord Dalhousie had stated that the Russian war
caused the worst effects in India ; indeed, his lordship
had moot urgently, and it might be said particularly,
alluded to the matter in connection with the smallness
of the number of British troops which he had at call.
Things being in this state there occurred the annexa-
tion of Oude. Thus all was ripe for revolt, all was re-
pressed discontent and ill-feeling. The last blow was
given, the fire was placed to the train, by the wicked
and unjust system of the greased cartridges. It might
be that these cartridges were not what the natives sup-
pod • but would it not have been well to respect pre-
judices.se ,
which were honest though mistaken, and to have
withdrawn the obnoxious arms? Nothing of the kind
was done, even though the Government decided to
issue no more cartridges. Difficulties occurred at
Meerut which were inefficiently and, at the same time,
intemperately met. He would not go into the scenes
which had followed -(" hear, hear," and
they were all fresh in the minds of the house. (Divide.)
But he would venture to say, that the whole of those
troubles might, by due care on the part of the officers,

have been put an end to. The question now came, how
were those revolted subjects to be treated. They ought
no doubt to be punished—a due and
just punishment
shou'd be meted out to them. But he trusted that the
indiscriminate cry for blood which had arisen in India,
Ind which had, to his surprise, been echoed in this
country, would not be listened to. Ile hoped that the
Government wculd see that the sepoy who slew his
offioa, and who burnt down cantonments, was a very

haps be a difficulty about them, and he would net press
for them ; but as regarded the third set of papers relat-
ing to Oude, he thought there might be some papers
which might be produced.
General THOMPSON seconded the motion.
Mr. H. J. BAILLIE was not surprised to see the
motion of the hon. gentleman the member for Rich
mond, or that he should hare felt it his duty to submit
that motion to the house, but he had been somewhat
surprised that on the terms of that motion he should
on the present occasion have gone into a genes-al dis-
cussion of the origin and cause of the Indian mutiny,
and into the question of the annexation of Oude.
(Hear.) He (Mr. Baillie) ought to be the last person to
complain of this latter subject being brought before the
house, for not many weeks ago he had occupied,
he feared, a considerable time in dealing with
that question, and he could not trespass again on the
house by entering into it on the present occasion. The
hon. gentleman had commence I his speech by referring
to the excesses committed by the English soldiers in
India. It might bo perfectly true, when first the hor-
rible atrocities which were committed at Cawnpore and
other stations were known, there was some feeling of
exasperation on the part of our soldiers manifested ; but
he (Mr. Baillie) believed that time had passed, and that
there were few persons who were not of the same ()pi-
nion 39 the lion. gentleman, and who did not think that
very little good would be gair,ed by carrying out what
perhaps might be deemed the principle of stern justice.
The fact was, the offenders were so numerous that some
other mode of punishment than that hitherto adopted
must be devised, for it was impossible to treat all the
different classes of offenders in the same way. The hon.
gentleman had asked what the instructions were which
were sent out to the Indian Government in re'ation to
the carrying out of martial law. The boa. genaernan
was aware that the question of martial law was a very
delicate one ; and when it was resolved to establish mar-
tial law, the practice was to leave its execution to those
whose duty it was to carry it out. No special instruc
tions bad been sent out, nor was it the practice to send
out instructions of that uaturi to the GovernoleGeneral.
If the English officers had received any instructions on
this subject, it must have been from the Commander
in-Chief. The Commander-in-Chief, however, was aware
of the opinions of the Governor-General on this subject,
because the Governor-General and his council had issued
e,rtain rules and instruction., with regard to it. The
boo. gentleman had read certain resolutions of the Go-
vernor-General in council, dated in Sept., 1857. which
laid down rules for the treatment of each class of offenders
some of which expressly referred to persons in the situa-
tion of the people of Oude. The Bth resolution was to
the effect that the Governor General was anxious that
no measures of severity should be carried to excess for
acts of rebellion committed by persons who were not
directly in arms against us. That applied to the people of
Omit,. There were many other rules laid down which
showed what were the sentiments of the Governor-Ge-
neral in this matter, and it could not be supposed that
the Commander-in-Chief would not feel it to be his duty
to act in accordance with those sentiments; and he (Mr.
Baillie) had little fear that any of the excesses to which
the bon. gentleman had referred would take pace. No
doubt there were accounts in the newspapers of things
which bad taken place which were too terrible to be be-
lieved, and he agreed with the hon. gentleman that they
must be exaggerations. The hon. gentleman had re-
ferred to Oude, and he (Mr. Baillie) could not think
that the people of that country who were assembled
under the banners of their chiefs and fighting for
their independence could be placed in the same category
as mutinous Sepoys who bad murdered their officers.
On that subject he had no doubt that proper instruc-
tions would he given. With respect to Maun Singh,
when he (Mr. Baillie) came into the house he was pre-
pared to say that he had no information to give ; but
since he came into the house some despatches had been
sent to him, in which he found some statements relating
to Mann Singh. They were to the effect that Mann
Singh, at the commencement of the rebellion, declared
for the British Government, and took under protection
a number of women and officers ; but he (Mr. Baillie)
was afraid that afterwards he changed his opinion, and
marched at the bead of a large force to Lucknow. Any
information that was to be found with regard to him
would be given. As to the other papers he had no infor-
mation to give, and he hoped the hon. gentleman would
withdraw those two portions of his motion, and the other
papers referred to would be granted.
Mr. W. VANSITTART hoped that the house would
not be led away by the opinion expressed by the hon.
gentleman opposite. In this country and in India very
different opinions were entertained. When an act was
passed in India to enable the government to brand the
mutineers, great alarm was felt, as it was thought that
it showed a disposition on the part of the government
to look to transportation only as a punishment. He
had always thought that the punishment for mutiny
went beyond transportation, and surely the severest
punishment was required for the outrages which had
been committed in India, where, as it regarded every
mutineer, and participator in the mutiny, it was expected
that strict justice would be done. Another order of the
Government of India had given groat dissatisfaction.
He alluded to the order that in the case of sepoys who
were on furlough who belonged to mutinous regi-
ments, on their return to head-quarters they were to be
paid and discharged. Another order also stated that any
Sepoys who could prove that they bad taken no part in
the mutiny were to be received again into the ranks of
the army. In an English mutiny, if a soldier did not do
his best to suppress it, he was guilty of telony. In his
opinion the course pursued by Lurd Canning towards
the committers and abettors of the crimes which had
been committed, was too conciliatory and inadequate to
the occasion.
Mr. C. BUXTON said that no one who had considered
the events of the last few months in India would do any-
thing to discourage the men who had done their duty so
well, but he thought that an expression of opinion from
that house would strengthen the Indian government in
carrying out the manly and conciliatory policy of Lord
Canning. It would be difficult for him to keep his sub-
ordinates within bounds, and he needed some backing
up from Parliament. No doubt if we in England had
been in India, and had seen what bad been done there
—if we had seen our wives and little ones butchered—if
we had looked into the well at Cawnpore, we might
have been carried away by our feelings of indignation.
still we, who were in a position to reflect, ought not to
be influenced by the excitement which was excusable in
them, and we ought to support Lord Canning, not in
excusing the guilty, but against those who confounded
the guilty with the guiltless. The frightful reports that
we had heard of the violation of wives under the eyes
of their husbands, and the torture of children under
the eyes of their mothers, had caused strong feelings of
indignation ; but those tales, if not wholly groundless,
were much exaggerated, and some of them were without
any foundation ; and Sir John Lawrence and others had
so stated distinctly in their despatches. If so, those
statements ought to have no weight in our minds ; for
though no one could exonerate the sepoy from the charge
of having committed the most abominable wickedness,
yet it was unjust to conclude that all the nat ivf
India were unmitigated scoundrels, without touch es
ofo
goodness about them.
Mr. MANGLES said that in h!sr opinion the wijholde
ly left in the hands of or

of this matter might be safely
Canning, who had throughou i
t the whole of thismelan-
choly affair shown great firmness and moderation n deal-
ing pith the subject. The noble lord had by his conduct
incurred a vast amount of unpopularity from his fellow-
countrymen in India, but he had gained the applause of
his fellow-countrymen at home. In a private letter which
he had received from Lord Canning, he told him that
although he had been charged with undue leniency by

_ '
wages, but nothing was done on their-report ;in 1825 _s-------, , r '
. .
different pelage him who, through fear and dismay, E— eiropeans in India, he feared that in future times it
he (Mr. Slanes) obtained a committee on the wages of fled his colours, and untimely became mixed np with relight be said of him- that be had not shown sufficient
the insurgents. He hoped that some general instruo- forbearance. It was because he held those opinions that
able-bodied labourers ; from the inquiries it appeared
that in 18213 great distress revelled and the mode in
thins had been issued for the guidance of tbose in lee (Mr. Mangles) had on all occasions supporter the Go-
which the poor law relief was administered had a great India. That something was required to be done in this vernwent of Lord Canning. He mint, however, sat'
tendency to lower the wages of the able-bodied. The re-
direction was plain from the very last telegram which that he thought the hon. gentleman who had brought
port of the committee" was distinctly in favour of some
had reached England. From this it appeared that 1,200 i this question forward had made excuses for the sep ,ye
great change, hut the evil continued to increase, until men had bean cut down by our troops, with the loss of l for which they were not entitled.
(Hear.) He had
in some counties the poor rate amounted to 7s. in the but three men on our part. It was clear, therefore. that I spoil en of the grea-ed cartridges—which no doubt was
pound. It was not tiillB34 theta remedy was provided. .
no resistance was made by the insurgents, and it was I the snatch which fired the mine—as if they had been
Since that time there had been a considerable improve.
unworthy of England and of the Englishsoldier, that I issued to every regiment
in the service. But the fact
such a state of things—little short of butchery—should was that the greased cartridges had not been issued to a
moot, but children and old people were still subjected to
occur. He also found that one of the contingents had single regiment in the service as a regiment. It was
great hardships in workhouses, and their condition re occur.
most harshly dealt With. These contingents, it true, they had been issued in the Affghan and other
should be remembered, owed but a qualified allegiance to frontier districts for a long time, and still used without
quired constant attention. He now turned from the rural i
this country. They were the soldiers of princes in al- remor istrance ; but with regard to the regiments of the
to the ctvio population. For a considerable period great i
1 fiance with us. Now in the case to which he referred 150 line, t bey had not been issued to a single regiment, but
misery prevailed among those who were employed in
!men of a contingent were huddled together shot and only to the military schools in which the men wore in-
factories, more especially among children and young per-
sons, and it was not till after the evil had continued for
bayoneted in a body, in the dusk of the evening. No struct ed in the use of the Miele rifle. He warned the
at least 25 years that a remedy was applied at the in-
proper trial and calm inquiry appeared to have taken hon, gentleman who spoke last how he attached credit
stance of a noble lord in another place. He thought it
was the duty of the legislature to see if something more place. Again, in many ;letters from India the killing of to the, Indian newspapers, for the very prints which bad
could not be done to improve the condition of this sepoys was spoken of in the most flippant manner. It attae-ized Lord Canning, and endeavoured to throw odium
useful class of persons. Again, notwithstanding the was stated that they were hung up as soon as caught, upon. bins,
and if any natives harboured them they were themselves site direction. With regard to the alleged mut:lations
and children in India, it was said that there
vast increase of the civic population, it was not till 1830
hung up. He could not believe this, but he thought of women that any one thought of making proper provision forhad used similar exaggerations in the oppo-
the health of the people. In 1840 a committee reported that it ought to be publicly disavowed by the Govern. were many cases of such a nature, but he confessed that
that there were 30,000 children living in close narrow meet, as otherwisean unjustidea would prevail through- he had not been able to ascertain the existence of a
courts with no outlet and no facilities for the admissien
out the length and breadth of the continent. How diffe- single authenticated case. He believed that in the ma-
of an adequate supply of fresh air, the remedying of this rent to this was the course taken by Gen. Calton in Ca- Jot ity of cases there was no proof whatever of any such
evil also having been delayed for very many years be-
nada, shortly after the death of Gen. Wolfe. That gene- outrage having been committed. There might have
cause there was no council to consider the matter. It
ral bad a due regard to the honour of the British name, been isolated cases of the sort, but he believed the state-
and he issued a manifesto holding out the hope of mercy meat with regard to the wholesale mutilations was
tion of 3,000,000, 47 of which had a deficient water also appeared that there were 50 towns, with a papule-
to those misguided wretches who had fled to the woods, devoid of truth. He had seen Captain Low, an aide-
supply, while 48 had no proper system of cleansing and
He did not say that the ca es of India and Canada were de-camp of General Barnard, who had been present
draining. Ultimately the Health of Towns Bill was parallel in all respects. He would, however, now come at the siege of Delhi, and all through the campaign, and
passed ; but it had not been universally adopted, and to a case which was not widely different from the case of that gentleman had assured himthat, when the British
there were still great evils prevailing which such a tri- America. He alluded to the annexation of Oude. In forces took possession of the city, every endeavour was
basal as he proposed to establish might be the means of that case intrigue was first tried ; first one great person- made to ascertain the truth o. these reports, but that
removing. There were thousands of persons devoted to age and then another was sought after to he suborned. they had not been able to obtain any evidence to show
the improvemeet of the working classes who would be Those attempts failed, and then the country was seized that they were found,d on truth. (Rear, hear.) Teen
prepared to make the most useful suggestions if they by a coup d'etat. It was eo doubt necessary now hat there was the ca-e of Miss Jennings, who was said to
knew how to do so with effect and on behalf of tee
our peeidon in Oude should be maintains t, but we were have been put, to death after having surf red many in_
corking classes, who had done so ;
much to benefit the
not justified in treating the natives of Oude as rebels, dignities ; but, from all tney has beer. able to ascerraor,
rest of the community, be asked for a board—an unpaid area treating them ae revolted soldiers. Ile ti said this e- there was no reaeon to believe that she had been put to
board if the house pleased—to consider suggestions made cause he saw in the Calcutta papers demands that Oude death in the way de-cribed. Most bon.
gentlemieu had
from time to time for their benefit. The mode in which should be made one great slaughter-tiouse. (Hear, read the letters which appeared in the public p.. pets.
proper amusements and r creations might be provided hear.) He regretted to hear ;bet cheer; be had hoped The writer of these conatnunicatiees hAd been at Delhi
would form a very proper subject for consideration. that no bun. member would he found to euppert such a when he heard
ef the mss acre at Catvepore, and hoe-
Fairs having been abolished, the poor were entitled to view. He had hoped that here at. least some regard would toned there immediately ; but they were after wards said
some substitute. He felt convinced that if the boon he he shown to those who were fiehting in behalf of a cast to have been committed at I,elhi. Now, with regaid
asked for the working classes were conceded it would down country. Let the hon. member who cheered re. to the iesceiptions found on the walls of the prism.] where
secure the gratitude of those who by their conduct had member what even the sepoys had gone through—let him the u. fertunate people were confined at Cawrpore, be
so richly deserved the care of Parliament, remember how often they had been tried and not found was assured by an officer who was one of the first who
Mr. En'TCOUar said no man could have listened to wanting—let him consider whether he himself would entered the town that they were not there when he saw
the speech of the hon. gentleman without respecting the have proved as firm as they under :similar privations and it. They roust then have been written by sone one who
motives by which he was actuated, but having listened temptations, and let him not, until then, venture to cheer wished to record scenes of horror, but who certainly bad
very attentively to what had fallen from him, he could the sentiment that without mercy—nay, without trial— exaggerated them. The hon. gentleman who brought
not, he confessed, understand whet practical measure he these men should be consigned to a bloody grave. And forward the motion spoke of the mutiny as being general,
was desirous of having carriedout. His hon. friend would in the instance of Oude, let the hon. inemb,r hear in and of its being occasioned by the abhorred dominion of
perhaps permit him to put tins matter at once to a test. mind that it was the case of a people struggling for its the East India Company. But that was not. so. for the
He would propose that the motion was acceded to, that independence ; a people, therefore, to be treated as an great body of the people remained faithful. At present no
the commission was issue , and that his hon. friend enemy, but not as revolted subjects. The hon. gentleman d nibt they had nat a single magistrate in the whole of the
himself was, as he very properly would be, placed at the concluded by saying that he hoped that. stern, resolute territory of Oude, nor did they occupy a single inch of
head of it. He was quite at a loss to conceive what
justice was done on these miscreants who had been guilty ground except the A lumbagh where Sir J Outram was eta-
was likely to be the lint step of the commission. Per- of atrocities, yet that moderation would be used towards tioned, but that did not prove that the entire population
the great mass of leas notorious offenders. With regard was opposed to British rule. He did not believe that the
haps his lion, friend would desire to afford facilities, by
to the papers for which be wi,,hed to move, he had people of India knew or understood what patriotism
means of that commission, to the labouring classes for
ascertaining how they might best lay out their money.
learned, by the courtesy of the Secretary to the Beard of Was as understood in England ; and it was a most re-
His hon. friend gave a nod of assent. If the commission Controls that those which related to Mann Singh might markable fact that while ancient Greece and Rome, and
be found, and would be produced. With regard to those modern Europe in more recent times, made the greatest
were appointed its practical business would be to enable
;he working classes to improve their income. With this relating to the instructions to officers, there might per- exertions to obtain a popular Government or monarchy
- -

in Asia it was always a succession of despotic Gnvern-
ments. The only change which occurred among them
wag, that one tyrannical Government wag pulled down
and another set up in its place. He believed, therefore,
that the annexation of Oude had nothing whatever to do
with the mutiny, for the people there absolutely knew
nothing of what could be termed in this country a
national cause. It was said that 50,000 er 100,000raen
were now assembled at Lucknow, but it must be recol-
lected that the population of Oude amounted to five
millions, and that the force thus congregated, taking it
at its highest figure was cemposed entirely of disbanded
soldiers and retainers of the Rajah's. He believed that
the measures taken with regard to Oude were wise and
just ; that those whom they affected were not the real
proprietors of the soil, and that the people generally were
much benefited by the changes made on the occasion.
For his own part he had no objection whatever to the
production of the papers called for, because he believed
the moderation, humanity, and right feeling displayed
by Lord Canning, who he hoped would remain at the
head of the Government of India, was an answer to the
charges made of indiscriminate daughter and cruelty.
He believed that during his administration justice
would be tempered with mercy, and that Lord Canning
was not the man to countenance or permit the atrocities
which had been referred to during the debate.
Captain SCOTT observed that the family to whom he
referred had mot with the fate ho had described. A bro-
ther and sister had fled from Luckuow into Oude, where
the brother was blown from a gun, and he feared the
sister was reserved for a worse fete.
Mr. ADAMS regretted that throughout the discussion
there was not more of justice dealt out to those officers
who had been engaged in suppressing the mutiny. (Hear,
hear.) The hon. member for Richmond alluded to a
case where 300 natives lost their lives, and only one
European ; and to another where 250 were destroyed
with a similar loss. But surely that did not show indis-
criminate slaughter. (Hear.) It evinced great military
strategy and skill ; and surely a British army would not
be justified in allowing these rebels to get to a safe dis-
tance, and then return to attack them with grater farce.
(Hear.) When mercy was asked for rebels, they ought
not to forget the, justice was done to their o u ceuntry-
men. (Hear )
Colonel SVIiES sail that no doubt >tied might he
done, but, as he had formerly -tate t, it must be justice
with discriminating mercy. The truth wa., no greased
cartridges had been issued to the troops, but, unluckily,
an alteration had taken place, and anew paper was used.
The effect cif that was, that a.though the troops which
first mutinied knew they were not greased cartridges, yet
they entreated the authorities that they might not be
campelled to use them, because their comrades elsewhere
would not believe otherwise than that they were greased
cartridges, and they would be subjected to unp'easant con-
sequences as the result. Aa to the natives of India having
been subj ected to despotism at all times, the history of
that country would prove the reverse.
Mr. O'BRIEN thought that all they did in India they
should temper justice with mercy, and not wage an
exterminating war. When the natives were again
humble it was a statesmanlike view to disabuse their
minds of the idea that they intended to take vengeance
upon them. (Hear, hear.)
Sir H. RA.WLINSON thought they were indebted
to the loon. member for bringing this question before the
house, as the opinions it would elicit would have great
effect in India. Some of the military punishments were
more severe than was necessary. The house, indeed,
should recollect that fur ten months, and after fifty
different combats, there was not a prisoner of war in
their hands. That was a grave feet, and the inference
they must draw from it was that quarter was not given,
and he believed that such was the understanding in the
army. He did not bring any charge against the troops,
but the extreme severities exercised arose from the state
of feeling in that country which being re-echoed from
this country had produced these severities. This dis-
cussion would produce a beneficial influence, and he
trusted that after this debate the proceeding of giving
no quarter would find no favour in their sight. The
practice was nob only unchristian but impolitic. English-
men were naturally brave, and brave men did not
naturally delight in blood and cruelty. They could not
govern India without native assistance, and to obtain
that they should use every means of conciliation in the.r
power.
Mr. RICH, in reply, said he Isere testimony to the
noble conduct of the troops in India. He rejoiced at the
result of this discussion, and at the declaration elicited
from Government that due discrimination would be used
in the infliction of punishment. They were told there
were no papers in this country such as he had moved
for. He therefore would withdraw that portion of the
motion, and he hoped that in regrard to the other papers
they would have them in due course. In that hope he
would withdraw the motion.
The motion was then withdrawn.
GALWAY FREEMEN DISFRANCHISENIENT.
Mr. G. CLIVE moved for leave to bring in a bill to
disfranchise the freemen of the county of the town of
Galway. This proceeding the hon. member justified by
appealing to the evidence lately presented before the
Galway Election Commissioners, showing the existence
of extensive corruption among the freemen class of the
constituency of that borough.
Sir I'. BURKE seconded the motion, in the assur-
aaee that the election for Galway, in which he had
taken an active share, could be shown to be an ex-
ceptional instance of purity. He vindicated especially
the course pursued by Lord Clanricarde on that occasion.
Lord LOVAINE approved of the introduction of the
measure.
Colonel FRENCH remarked on the iejustice of de-
priving 489 electors of the franchise without proof of
any offence. At a future step he intended to offer
strenuous opposition to the bill.
Mr. MAGUIRE characterised the measure as a one-
sided proceeding. Far worse than the poor bribed
elector were the rich bribers, some of whom the hon.
member mentioned by name, and relayed incidents
touching th,ir conduct at recent elections for Galway.
After some discussion, in which Mr. V. Seymour,
Mr. B. Hope, Mr. Ayrtun, and Mr. Fitzgerald partici-
pated.
a
ydvised
i
Mr. WALPOLE said the question
was one of very great importance, but h
he
the house to agree to the introduction o f the bill. What-
ever grave and serious questions involved,
usntrdoenrgdscassion
the measure
f
it would yet be the duty
of the house not to strike
at the low whilst they .
avoided aiming at the high.
(Hear.) Any of their legislation which was not founded
upon equal justice to all ranks,
would not be consistent
with the satisfaction
with the dignity of the house, norrwhich
occurred to him
of the country. The only matte
as important in the report
to present was
that the mass of GI
notice at
the electors in since the away
Re-
form Bill was of
Liberal politics, and the candidates at
elections were, with one single exception, also Liberal.
There were, therefore, no party considerations which
could affect the question before the house, and he could
not see why the house should not immediately enter
upon the inquiry. The only doubts which he had as to
the propriety of the measure—whilst he strongly recom-
mended its introduction—were simply these. They were
proposing to disfranchise the innocent along with the
guilty. (Hear.) They had, upon the face of the report, a
distinct intimation that many of these
electors were sol-
vent and respectable men fr

• or the class of life in which
they moved. Therefore it did not behove the house to
consider whether they should strike at those persons who
were not guilty while they struck at those who were.
lle also learnt by the statement of the hon. and gallant
colonel opposite that 128 freemen had since been placed
upon the roll. This, therefore, would be most e't o
nary legislation if it disfranchised those against whom
a tittle of evidence bad been produced. There were per.