The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, IMNIION, SATURDAY E V ONTI N7O, JUNE 19, 1858.

even the nearePt quota and were Efficient were to have
the preference over thoi.e who had not given any.
THE WELLINGTON MONUMENT.

Works, and he would like to ask how he was satisfied
with the operations of the body he had called into exist-
mace ? The hill received the royal assent on the 14th of
August, 1855. It provided that before the 31st Discern
ber, 1860, the whole of the works should be completed,
to prevent the sewaae of the metropolis from passing into
the river in or near the metropolis. They were now in
June, 1858, yet nothing had been dono except to pro-
pme three schemes, which all proved ahertive. By the
first plan of the board the outtall of the sewage was to
b.: at Plurnstead ; but as the whole of that parish was
within the metropolitan district the plan violated the
very act under which the board was c instituted. Ilw
wished to know whether the Gwterntnent would take
immediate steps for remedying this great and crying
' evil ; whether they could hold out some hope that this
I
immense metropolis would soon cease to be ascandal tothe
country, and the forms and centre of disease and dea'h I
Lord J. MANNERS said the hor. member (Mr. Stir-
ling) had very fairly stated the course of events thus far
with regard to the Wellington Monument. In 1856 tee
artists of all countries were invited to compete ; in 1857
the judges made their award, that award being sigeed
among others by Lord Overstone, the Dean of St,
Paul's, and his right bon. friend the member for the
University of Oxford. The judges selected the de-igns
for which they awarded the prizss without regarding the
question of their adaptation to the site which was then
in iicated in the oath, dral %here it was intended to
place the monument, and they suggested, and he thought
most properly, that before they determined which, if
any, of the desigaa should be seise' ed, the government
should consult some architect of eminence as to the local
effect which wou'd be produce I by the erection of any
particular monument in St. Paul's. When he came into
office no practicel step appeared to have been taken be-
yond the presentation bf the repot tof the j udges. It
therefore became his duty to consider which of the de-
signs was, in his opinion, most worthy of being selected
for a monument in St. Paul's Cathedral. In all the dis-
cus-ions in that !sense upon art and taste hon. gentlemen
and noble lords wore apt to dogmatise ina manner which
might be pardonable in Spanish Inquisitors pronouncing
on matters of Christian faith, but which appeared to
him singularly out of place when they were discussing
m atters of opinion ; and in stating the conclusion
at which he had arrived on this sulject he wished
to guard himself against being supposed to claim infal-
libility. Under the circumstances he had thought him-
self bound to act on the recommendation of the judges,
that some one onepetent to advise on the subject should
be consulted as to the local effect which wouid b 3 pro-
duced by the various designs. No one appeared to him
better qualified by position and accomplishments to give
adv ce than Mr. Penrose. (Hear.) They went over the
deigns tsgether, and the design which they bo:h
thought the best was that known as No. 18, the design
of Mr Stephen-. They then considered the question of
site, and they agreed that the bust site far the purpose
in view was the chapel a the west end of the cathedral,
which had hi, herte been used as the Coneistory Court.
The dean aid chapter had placed that chapel at the dis-
posal of the Government for the erection of the monu-
ment. (near, hear) One great advantage would be
derived from the circumstance of that 'lace being a
chapel. His hon. friend bad pointed out most truly that
in fernier times it was not theught suffieieat in such a
case as that under consideration to have recourse to
sculpture, but that the sister art of painting was called
in aid ; and the selec ion of a site which bad been made
would enable them to act on that principle. (Elear.)
lie proposed that the a 'aptation of the chapel and its
architectural ornamentation should be confided to Mr.
Penrose. He thought it advisable, acting on the re-
commendation of the judges, to call in the assistance of
some architect of eminence, and that those gentlemen
should form a committee to whom should be cones led the
execution of a monument woe thy of the great duke
whom it was intended to commemorate, worthy of toe
state of English art in the nineteenth century. (Hear.)
With regard to the question put by the hon. member
for Gail:ford (Mr. R. Mangles), he was satisfied that
I he was quite right in the answer which he gave to
a similar question the other day, which was, in effect,
that so fir as the draining of the Thames was con-
cerned, the First Csamnissierier of Works had no power
beyond ti at of vetoing any scheme which inignt be
submitted to him by the Metropolitan Board of Works.
The hon. member fir Andover ('lr. W. Cubits), after
admit' ing thitho had no powcr over the Tbarnesdrainage,
had asked him whether he bad done, or was prepared to
do, anything for the preservation of the health of U:1,123-
beri while they were sitting in that house. He could
only say, in answer to that question that he had that day
received from Mr. Gurney a report in which he stated
what he propond to do to carry outhis (Lord J, Manner-)
wishes on the 81114 tct. Mr. Gurney said—"Sir,—l do
not lose a clement in answering your letter received last
evening, reque,tieg me to report to the First Commis-
sioner what is already being done to improve the condi-
tion of the river TuatneP, ire the neighbourhood of the two
hoaxes of Parliament, and also what, if anything, I pro-
pose to do in the matter within my jurisdiction. With
regard to the river itself there is nothing done, nor can
Ido anything, Bin-a the meeting of Parliament and
during the recess the mud outvde the terrace was re
moved ; but during the sitting of the house and while
the river is in its precent state, the accurnu'ation cannot
be moved. In answer to your latter question, I beg to
say the !mans by which I propose to reiieve the river
(according to my report to the First Commissioner,
pirtni by order of the house, 12th Deo. last, Sessional
No. 21) is now under clusi:leiation of a committee of the
House of (.3.)mmoi,. 1 think it right to state for his lord-
snip's informa ion, that the air entering directly the.
House el Peers and Commons through the proper venti-
lating channels is purified from the river effluvia by the
spray je s. For the pur.filation of the air c timing in
through the windows of the House of Lards and (Join-
mons, should either be epened, I have placed canvass
rnoisted with a weak solution of chi ride of Wm; and lime,
The same is being fixed at all the windows likely to be
opened towards the river in the libraries and committee
rooms." lie might Merin the Lou a that, in ace lel ante
with the recommendation of the noble lord the raemberfor
Tiverton, which was concurred in by Ininsdr, Mr.
Gurney had been engeg-d all that day in distributing
through the Thames, in tbe viciray of the houses of
Perlisinent, four or five boat-loads of lime, and in
spreading line over the mud bank,. (Laughter.) Such
was the simple Incises adopted for the purpose of eff,ct-
ing the object merlin:mei by the bon. gentleman, and at
present he did not know what m we could be done. Tire
questnn raised by hi, hoe,. friend was a very large and
serious one. He had no het-nation in saying that in Lis
own op:nion the provisions of the Local Management
Act in reerence to the drainage of the Thames a,d the
veto given to the F rat Cerarni‘sioner of Works were not
sati-factory. There sae a double government and a di-
vided re• pensibility of the most ineonver Lott kind. A
large body of gentlemen, elected by the popular voice,
were th d down by the words of an ac-, of Parliament to
do a certain thing in a certain way, and by a subsequent
faction they were prevented from doing that without the
api.r >val of the Fast Commissioner of Works, who had
no means of OYaihimg the best information on the su'
ject. The Beard of Works had submitted to the right
hon. baronet opposite (Sir B Hal ) various plans which
he had felt it his duty to rej,ct. A rew plan nad, be
believed, been recetaly proao Ed by the eneeneer , f the
Metropolitan Board of Work-, but it had not yet been
brought under nis notice. Some change ought to be
made, and he should be very happy to confer with any
one wlip could suggest any E 11.13118 by which a useful
°Lange might be effected. The difficulty was this—if
the Governmeat took upon theni-ie,ves the drainage of
the Tnames, at an enormous expense, they cool I net in
ju-tice call upon the en- tr )pnis to pay for that drainage ;
while, on the other band, if the netropolis were call ,t 1
upon to do the work, it was but fair that it should do it
in what manner it pleased. Tee re-poesibility- and the
burden must he imposed on the one party or the other.
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY believed tl at no good step
would ever be taken with regard to drainage until the
relations of the G evernment and the Metropolitan
Board were placed on a more satisfactory footing, and
some one was entrusted with more ,discretionary power.
As regarded the monument to the Duke of Wetingtoe,
he would entreat the noble lord to allow time for the
expression of the opinion of tbe artistic world and of the
community in general with respect to t le decision which
he had announced. There was, he believed, a general
iinpressi no that the designs exhibite2. were anything but
creditable to Engihh act.
Sir B. HALL wished to say a few words with re-
gard to his own conduct in reference to the drain-
age of the Thames. Soon after the Metropolitan
Board of Works came into existence they presented to
him a plan in which the omfall was within the metro-
politan area, and as that was contrary to the act
he felt it Lis duty to reject it. Soon afterwards
there came another plan, which he rejected on a similar
ground. Considering that both these plans were con-
trary to the provisions of the act, he thought it was a
wise arrangeMent that all plans bad to be submitted to
the First Commissioner of Works. (Hear ) He then
felt it his duty to put himself in communication with
the Metropolitan Board of Works on the subj •ct. Pre-
viou•ly to doing so he obtained from the then First Lord
of the Admiralty the assistance of Capt. Banta% and
itnhawthillieDh
tehceemobuetrfallaiswt til,agervelawceads sautbamsiuttined-
et theoienhti resultmd ia., t ap wasnlacen
from the metripolis. He put that plan
in the 1 ands of three of the most eminent engineers in
the Itiagdom, eho substituted fm it are teer plan. This
with an intimatioa it was worthy of c ins! •
last plan he sent to the Metropoloan Boarddoeraoo, toWTor6l,ye,
did c nsiiier it ; they referred it to their own engineer
and two other gentlemen who were associated with therm
Those gentlemen presented a plan to the Metropolitan
Board cf Works, but instead of remitting that plan to
the noble lord who succeeded him in office, they passed
a resolution deiernnz the consideration of the subject
till October next. Ho thought the time was now come
when the Government should vn,:nsider whether they
should not take this matter into their own hands and
appoint a cointnissisn of qualifi4d per-ons to carry out
the object, subject of course to the approval of the Trea.
sury.

Mr. STIRLING asked the Chief Commissioner of
Works, if it was the intention of her Majesty's Go-
vernment to order any one of the Prize Designs for the ,
Wellington Monument, now exhibited in the conference '
room, to be executed for St. Paul's ; and, if not,
whether he would state the course which the
Government proposed to adopt with regard to
the design and construction of the monument.
He characterised the exhibiton of models as a failure,
and it was to be reeretted so much time and labour had
been thrown away in producing models totally unfit for
the severe teyle of Wren in connection with St. Peure.
Lord J. MANNERS said he would answer the ques-
tion at a later period of the evening.
THE INFORMER BURKE.
The O.DONOGROE asked the Attorney-General for
Ireland, whether he had any objection to lay on the
table a copy of the notes taken by the Solicitor-General
ler Ireland in his examination of the informer Burke,
after the revelations said to have been made by Burke
to the policemen and driver of the car who took him
from Nenagh to Itomcrea ; and also a copy of
Butke's evidence on the trial of the Cormacks ?
He had reason to believe the cause of Burke's second
statement w as the threat of the resident magistrate that
unless he told who murdered Mr. Eilis he should remain
in gaol till he rotted—be being in confinement at the
' time, The honourable gentleman also took occa-
sion to c emplain of the proceedings on the trial
of the Cormacks, e-pecielly the irregular discharge
of the j cry on the first trial, because they did not agree
to a verdict, and to the manner in which the jury for the
second trial was selected. Mr. Justice Keogh, who tried
the prisoner, charged the jury in a manner as he (The
O'Donoghoe) hoped juries sere seldom charged within
these realms, for he frightened the jury into a verdict , f
condemnation. Every attempt was made to save them,
but without success, and the men were executed on
the 11th of May. Since then, circumstances had
occurred that tended to shake the belief in
the credibilty of the witnesses. There was grave
matter for investigation (hear, hear), and it was not
right to put Burke out of the way to prevent it.
There were persons to be found that had heard him
say he male the statement on the trial to please the
public. The case must sooner or later be investigated,
to satisfy public indignation of feeling in Ireland.
Mr. GILPIN urged that the circumstances of the
case should be fully investigated.
Mr. BAGWELL said the greatest excitement
prevailed in the county of Tipperary respecting this
trial. There had never been a trial in Ireland before
this where the public fechng had been so much excited,
there was a prevalent feeling that justice had not been
done.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to cases of
this kind being brought before that house, so as to make
it a c iurt of appeal against a cenvictien. The right hon.
gentleman referred to the position of the late Mr. Ellis
in Kerry, and the circumstances connecting his murder.
The tnen who were executed were in Mr. Elli-'s employ,
and were well paid. Spillan, the informer, and Burke,
were also in the deceased's employ. The C:xmacke re-
sided near where Mr. E its was murdered, and it was
proved by independent evidence tbat the Cormacks
were in the heuee, and f firmed a portion of a card-party
there, near the time when Mr.Ellts passed inui, car. After
referring to other details in connection with the murder,
he said the case was fairly tried, and every justice was
rendered them on this tiled. They challenged nearly
thirty jurymen. Burke'e reason for not stating 011 the
corover's inquest who murdered his mater, was, that he
was terrified on seeing him before him—one of the Cer-
imacks being actually on the jury. It was a mot un-
worthy thing to impugn the justice of twelve men taken
from the c eii tit.
The O'DONOGEME said he had done nothing of the
kind,
Mr.WHlTESlDEcontinued—With regard to tl-e jury
it was a mixed jury ; nobody was set aside on account cf
hie migious opetione. They hone,tly tried the ca,e, they
came to an honeet verdict, and that house had no

authority to review the case. It was said, what had
become of Burke and Spillan ? why, the answer was
that if they rem dried in Tipperary ►hey would be torn
into a thcusand pieces. I; was an impoitant thing to
know that the Crow❑ never deserted a witness WhoiA3
lie was j.,:opa-di:ied by evidence which be had given.

As to Burke having denied his evidence, the Lict, was

this. He had to be—removed, and the car driver who
conveyed him having some •uspicicn who he waq, said,
"Are you the fellow who gave evidouce against
Corwack e His rep'y was " I am ;" and then upon a
supposed conversation between these two, it was asE,umed
that a case tried bef,re a jadge and jury and upon evi•
deuce sifted on oath ; the case alter the trial was
th,,roughly investigated ; a period of Eix weeks was
allowed after the sentence was passed, and after the
fullest investigation the L-.rd-Ueu'enant did cot feel
himself justified in interfering wi.h the sentence.
Mr. BRADY reviewed the evidence, and contended
that it WAS most uusatiefictory.
The subj.ct then dropped.
THE CONFESSIONAL IN BELGRAVIA..

Mr. 13UTLEEt asked whether it was the intention of
her Maje-ty's Government to take any steps in conse-
quence of the practices alleged to have taken place at the
confessional in the district i.f Si;„ Biireahae, Pimlico ;
and the statements that similar practices are being con-
tinued by other ministers of our church in that neigh-
bourhopd ; and whether her Majesty's government is in
communion,' ion with the proper eccl siastical authority,
in order to the punishment of all who may hare taken
part in such practices. 11,3 had always felt t at ques-
tions of a religious character ought al says to to avoided
in that Louse, or, at all events, to be lightly touched

upon. The borough be represen tt d had populati,,n
over half a million, and in duty to them he tbought he
wiis entitled to this informstion. Ho did not wish to
say anytaing of the q‘i,i,tihn in the at..;.,l.nazi, as he iinde-
stood that an appeal against the deci,ion of the Bishop
of London was in the hands of the Archbishop of
Canterbury.
Mr. WALPOLE had no he,:itation in ?aying that if
three practices bad talien piece, the sooner they were
puF Ra end to the bet'er. But there had been dubs and
denia!S aq to these practices. Tois was a subjoc-, f)r the
judicial cognisance cf the 131,.11,p, and it wouLt be uriwn,e
on thepanto` the Government to expreA4 what might 13J
a premature opinion.

Lord ELCIIO thcuillt the public had aright to know
that the large sum of 20,0001. which had been raised
for this monumect should be laid out in a marina which
would produce the most eflective result.
Sir J. V. SHELLEY thought that the Metropolitan
Board of Works tad been rather, hardly dealt with ;
that it was not so easy tr.) purify the Thames as
seemed io be iniagir:ed. If, as the hon, member tai I,
it should be, an imperial undertaking, the met•opoli.,
would be very willing to be relieved from payiug for it.
The maropolrs (might not to be celled on to carry a main
drainage far beyond the'r own limits.
THE NAWAB OF SURAT.

Mr. COLLIER asked the President of the Board cf
Control whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Go-
vernment to refer the eliicui of Meer JafEer All Khan
to the private pr party of the late Nawah of Surat,
the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council ?
Lord STANLEY did not think that the house wa-
very *all inclined to go into the affairs of the Nawab of
SnrAt, atar, hear, There was a very considerable

legal difficulty in the way of the course recommended ;
and, as it was his intention to consult the law officers
of the Crown, till be received their report he could not
state what course would be pursued.
THE AMERICAN DIFFICULTY.

Mr. BRIGHT rose to put a question to the Under-
Secretary of State for F reign Affairs on the subject of
the proceedings of the English squadron engaged in the
suppression of the slave trade, and with respect to our
relations with the United States. He said—l do not
wish at all to enter on the discussion of this question,
just now exciting so much interest, for I understand that
before long an hon. member is likely to submit the whole
subj-ct to the consideration of the House of Commons. I
must say, my own opinion has always been very much
adverse to the position of the armed squadron by which it
is attempted to suppress the slave trade, and if such
motion as I have alluded to hi brought forward I will
give it my support. I wish to ask whether the Govern-
ment has received any information as to this matter
which can be laid before the house, to put the house and
the country iu posseesion of the position in which we
stand, and also give information relative to the appre-
hensions that exist in this country and on the other side
of the Atlantic, for the influence of any et itement by
the Government will be felt here and felt there, I think
this is one of the cases in which great frankness and
openness will be advantageous. There may be a few
persons in America and here also who do not object to
aquarrel, but I think that the great
in both countries would take a diffe-
rentsboumi
ken the like
people
view, and would rsgrt t that anything should occur
to cause discord between the two countries. (Hear,
hear.) Perhaps the noble lord will ray how many ves-
sels have been sent out, whether the number has in-
creased or decreased since last year? Lord Aberdeen
had referred, in the House of Lords, to instructions
issued in 1844, and said t hat if those instructions had been
adhered to no difficulty c"uli have arisen. I do not know
whether any fresh instructions have gone out, but
I hardly think that the officers on the station would have
cent:flitted—l will nut say the outrages—but the acts
comp'aiued of. I bag to ask the question now, as the
steamer leaves Liverpool to-morrow, and anything that
may be said to-night will go out to the United States
with the least possible delay.
Mr. S. FITZIERALD, who was very indistinctly
heard, was understood to say—The hon. member for
Birmingham (Mr. Bright), and the hon. member for
King's County (Mr. P. O'Brien), have deprecated any
minute discussion on this subject, which certainly is one
of a delicate nature, and, though I cannot say it has
produced alarm, has caucd anxiety. 1 will therefore
make a direct statement upon the matter. The
honourable member for Birmingham asks me whether
I have received any more specific infermation as to
what has occurred. Oe a former occasion I took an
opportunity of saying that the information which had
arrived was not official ; and now I say that we have
not received such information as will enable me to
give a satisfactory answer to that question. This, how-
ever, at least I may say, that there have been such a
c antinued course ti pr iceeaing on the part of our agents
there, that I cannot but think that over-zeal may in
some instances have led them beyond their instructions.
I can on y say if that is so, that there will be on the part
of the Gavernment the roost anxious wish if wrong has
been done, to meet that wrong with the most candid
acknowledgment that it has been dtme. I hope that the
time is far distant when this country will give up any
right which it c mceives itself justly entitled to. Bat I
hope that the time is equally distant when this coun-
try from any folse pride wid refuse to acknowledge when
she is in the wrong. (Hear, hear.) As to the question
whether I have received any additional information, I
trust that the statement I have made will be so far saris-
faetory. There is one other point on which I will make
one or two observations; and I will do so princ!pally
bectuse I think it will justify not only the hope I ex-
' press, but the ceefelence that these circumstances, which
have hitherto had this anxin us character, will be saris-
fectorily arranged. I wish to state this in justice to our
officers abroad, that, though there may have been in-
stances of over zeal which have lsd officers to exceed
the bounds of discretion, yet it is obvious from all that
has come to our knowledge, that it is pertrc ly char that
tho-e statements of what have been termed British out-
rages have been most grossly exaggerated. I will not
at this period of the evening enter into an explanation
of the circumstances that induce me to hold that of;-
nion, but I will say that in the lest publication of one of
the New York papers, and which have been copied into
every journal in this kingdom, there appears this state-
ment, that 32 American vessels had teen detained and
searched ; and these proceedings go under the name of
British outrages. I may state what this outrage turned
out t ) be. Tao brig C. F. O'Brien ehich was said to
hove been outraged, " was boarded on the 21 of May in
the harbour of Sagua la Grande, by an armed boat from
a British steamer. The boat pulled alongside without
hailing, and boarded without asking permission to do so.
Tee usual questions as to the name, ownership, and de-
stination of the vessel were asked and answered, and the
captain was requested to produce' his papers, These,
be informed the officers, were at the office of the Ameri-
can Consulate. He made no further search of the ves-
sel, and having satisfied his curiosity, departed. His
behaviour was civil, and no threat or intinsalation was
suggested. This is only one ; and as to the Escort, and
as to another vessel, there is a similar statement—"Se p
Esc,rt, from Havre to New Gleans, when off the south
side of Cuba, the wind being quite light, a British
etc Liner ranged alongside, and her commander said that
he wished to communicate with the ship if her captain
bad no obj,ctioa. (Heir, hear.) Captain Bryant said
he would be happy to receive any communications the
steamer pleased to make. The ship was not re-

quested Co heave to, but the steamer ranged a-tread uf
toe ship and droppecl a boat wnica ‘:ame a'o-.E.,,! de. An
offi.:er from her went on board, asked ‘.vhere the ship was
from and boua', tut made no re quest see her paper,.
He stated that the steamer was from Port Royal, Ja-
maica, and was then under sealed orders, to be opened
,ff Cap..! May. The officer asked it he caul I render the
ship any service, snd being thanked retnrned to his
Coat. Caytain Bryant states that from first to last the
conduct if the steatner, her officers, and men was
friendly. He states, moreover, that the ship's hold
might half, been filled with negroes for aught the officer
seemed to care. His visit was not prying in any cease.
Captain Drya!,t c ,old nut call to mind the name of the
kteamer wi hoot referring to the ship's leg. The brig
Pulaski, C;:p!.ain Hawthorn, from Cienfuegos, arrived
here tat evehiow, and r,p)rts chat on the 11th inst., in
lat. 23 deg. 21 min., long. 83 deg. 34 min., she was
hailed from a British war steamer, barque-rigiiel, arid
asked where she aas from and bound, but was 'A re•
quested to heave to, nor was she boarded, nor did the
4eaint. r fire at her. Captain Haw:horn, says the com-
mander of the steamer, c)nducted bins If just as arty
de:ent shipunaiter wou:d when speaking :tau _nor vessel,
at sea."

wore framed in the most temperate spirit, and they were
ho believed communicated to the Government of the
United States. For fifteen years those instructions had
been acted on in the most amicable spirit ; and the ques-
tion occurred, whether these complaints bad arisen from
increased vigilauca, perhaps an over-stepping of duty on
the part of the commanders of British cruisers, or from
the unwillingness of the Americans to submit to the exe-
cution of those instructions, which for fifteen years h rd
bee❑ punctually carried. out. In thesfirst place, it was the
duty of the Government to restrain the overzsal of any
commander, and, as the hon. gentleman had sal 1, it became
us as a great nation, to repair any wrong which wo might
have done ; bat on the other hand, it would be for the wis-
dom of the Government to devise, in concert with the
American government such measures as might be necessary
He thought that this was clear, that General Cass, on the
part of the American Government, felt that it might be
necessary to ascertain the nationality of yes els on the high
seas. By the law of nations, or the enmity of nations, this
power was always exercised, that on meeting a merehant
vessel you require her to show her flag, and might test her
nationality. It would never do for the American nation in
carrying on their commerce in the Chinese seas, where
piracy prevailed, after a pirate vessel had plundered an
American vessel, and perhaps murdered her crow, that
that pirate vessel on being met should only have to hoist a
British ensign, and that that flag should protect her from
any examination on the part of American commanders.
As the hors. gentleman had justly said, here were two great
nations having the s une purpose. He did not think that
too much weight should be attached to speeches made oven
in the American Congress ; he believed it was the interest
of these two great nations engaged in the same work, and
be hoped to hear that it was not their purpose to deviate
from that line of policy which we had now followed for so
many years, he meant the suppression of the slave trade.
He only wished further to state the pleasure he had bail
in hearing the temperate and proper speech of the hen.
gentleman opposite.
Lord PALUSIISTON--As some question had arisen as
to the cruisers sent out to suppress the slave trade on the

" Tie brig ElizA C.iptain Gordon, from
Sao's, is Cri antic, arrived here yesterday atterooon.
Wbdc at Sagua her captain bays she was nGt troubled by
the Briti4), and be b,lieve3 that two-thirds of the stories
in c.renlAtion about ow,rays, & , are ma le out of old
cloth."

is xt statement I wish to refer to is by Captain
Cline, boarding offic.er of the Merchant Exc'sange at Bea-
ter). He says let he has conversed freely with the ma;-
ter and crow of every vessel that has arrived, and not
o of them has been damaged to the a nount of one
cent ; and in two cases where ve.sels are said to have
been fired at, neither the crew nor the mates knew any-
thing about it. (A. laugh.) It is further stated that the
British officers appeared moat a,axt us to avoid giving
offence. I do not wish to throw doubts on the bona
fides of the American government, cr to doubt for one-
moment that they thought that they ha,' grounds for
the representations which they have made ; but I only
want to put this before the house in justice to the officers
%bon conduct is implgael, and to show the reason
I have for the confident Lope that this menacing
state of circumstances may be equitably and justly ar-
ranged. Another circumstance is, that from the docu-
ments laid before the Congress by the American Govern-
ment it would appear that the abuse of the American
flag has been great. (flear.) What I mean is, that the
American flag has been made use of by those who are
not Americans, and who have no right to use it, and
that it bas been prostituted in the vilest manner. (Hear.)
I cannot help thinking that when these circumstances
are brought to the knowledge of the American Govern-
ment, and when they find that this Government is dis-
posed to act in a conciliatory spirit, they on the other
side of the water will meet us in a similar Fpir.t. As to
the right of search, it has always been a constant source
,•1 irritation between the two countries ; the right has
never been admitted by the Americana, and consequently
it became our duty, in the face of circumstances so se-
rious as those brought before us, to ascertain exactly
what were our rights ; if we had rights, that we might
be prepared to stand by them, and if not, that we might
acknowledge our error. Consequently we took the ad-
vice of the law officers of the Crown, and it is their de-
cided opinion that by international law in time of peace
we have no right of search, and that being the case, it
would be unbecoming to delay acknowledging this for
one moment to the American Government. It would,
however, be wrong that we should be called on at once
to cease our efforts to put down the slave trade. The
cour,e taken by the English Government is what has
been laid down by Gen. Cass, who says :
"A merchant vessel upon the high seas is protected by
her national Character. He who fore bly enters her does so
upon his owa responsibility. Undoubtedly,
if a vessel as-
some a national el &rector to which she is not entitled, and
is sailing under false colours, she cannot be protected by
the assumption of a nationality to which she has no claim.
As the identity of a person must be determined by the offi-
cer bearings process for his arrest, and determined at the
risk of such officer, seerunst the national identity of a vessel
be determined at the like haz ad to him who, doubting the
flag she displays, searches her to ascertain her true charac-
ter. There, ne doubt, may be circumstances which would
go far to modify the complaints a nation would have a
ight to make for such a violation of its sovereignty. If
the boarding officer had just grounds for suspicion, and de-
ported
himself with propriety in the performance of his
task, doing no injury, a ,d peaceably retiring ohen sa' is-
fied of his error, no nation would make such an act the
subject of serious reclamations."
That is the petition we are entitled to take by inter-
national law ; it is that whidh thi., American gentleman
has himself acknowledged, and tlett ie the course which
it will be the duty of our el ei?eis in these seal to pur-
sue for the future. The hun.• gentleman has asked me
whether any addition has been male to out fleet in the
Cuban waters? During the time that this government
has been in office there has been no increase of the fleet
in those waters, and I may say further that it has come
under the consideration of the government whither me
continuance of this squadron in the Celine' waters ha-.
answered the ebj,ct which we have in view, and whether
there were not attached to the continuance of that fleet
in the Cuban waters other objections of a different kind
The maintaining a squadron on the coast of Africa is a
different question to that of maintaining a squadron on
the coast of Cuba. The squadron off Cuba is in the
high way of American commerce, and there Would always

coast of Cuba, ho must remind the house that thrt arrange-
ment had been adopted in deference to the frequently ex-
pressed wish of Parliament, and in consequence of frequent
deputations which came to membersof the late Government
' urging that that emirate should be adopted. The Under'
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs also reminded the
house that the plan was suggested and counselled by the
American Government itself ; therefore there was nothing
in that proceeding not founded on good grounds. It was
always to be expected that those whose traffic was thus in.
terfered with should endeavour to raise a cry, and he hoped
that it would turn out that the complaints which we had
heard so much of had originated very much from such a
source. It was just to the American Government to say
that they had always not only expressed but 'manifested
the same feeling, and that they had acted up to their en-
g tgereents in regard to the suppression of that most
abominable crime, the slave trade. The American Go-
vernment had by law made it an offence liable to the
highest punishment ; and when the American Congress
co-operated with the British Government in the suppres-
sion of the slave trade the American officers did their duty
in the most efficient and amicable manner. (Hear.) There
were many instances of the American officers preventing
by their own action the abuse of their flag by Portuguese
and Spanish bandits and slave dowers of all nations. He
quite agreed with his noble friend the member for London,
that it would be quite impossible to admit the naked prin-
ciple that hoisting a 11)g was to be taken as conclusi% e
proof of the vessel's nationality. It was well knewn that
ships carried the flags of every country to be used as sig-
nals, and if they were allowed to identify themselves' with
whichever of these flags suited their purpose, commercial
nations would soon find the effect in the insecurity of their
trade. He did not understand the Under-Secretary for
Foreign Affivrs to admit the principle to that extent. His
right hon. friend the late First Le: cl of the Admiralty Ir.
formed him that his instructions had been sent to the
cruisers on the coast of Cuba diff,ring from those in the
circular of Lord Aberdeen. These instructions, he (Lord
Palmerston) believed had been framed in co-operation with
the American Government. Ile presumed that if any
fresh instructions were now sent, their purport would be
communicated to the house.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had hoard
ith great satisfaction the ohsef Tatiotia of the noble load the

he most serious risk of misunderstanding in cages of member for London. Thebest answer to the violent speeches ,
vessels in such seas, whereas, on the coast of Africa, in the American Senate was to be found in the calm and dis-
where commerce is much more scattered, it was much passionate manner in which English statesmen expressed
easier at once to ascertain the character of suspicious their opinion on the subject. Without conceding the
vessels than where they were among a number of other principle to which the noble lord had alluded, and which
vessels pursuing lawful commerce. It is therefore under had not been conceded, they (the Ministers) had written to
the consiceration of the government whether it is
not much more desirable at once to withdraw that the American Government telling them of the abuses of
equadron ? The original plan of having a squadron their flag and the abuses that had been committed, and
there was adopted on the suggestion of the American , asking them to confer on some mode by which those
government, and neither they nor ourselves at that time . abuses might be corrected. They bad not, as yet, received
saw the olj,ctions that it was liable to. The last an answer to that proposition, but he was induced to think
question is whether any additional instructions have it would be received by the American government in the
lately been sent out ? In reference to that question there spirit in which it had been sent. He believed that the gc-
are the instructiens referred to by the hon. member for vernment of the United States would feel convinced that
Birmingham, which were issued during Lord Aberdeen's the interests of civilisation required that a united course
government. My right hon. friend at the head of the Ad-
should be determined on. So far from being annoyed, he
miralty found it necessary since he came into) rffice to g:ve
should rejoice at hearing of American ships of war being iu
even more stringent instructions for enjoining greater
the waters of Cuba, as their crews would see what was
caution and di, cretion on our cruisers on the coast ef
Cuba. 'Whether there were any instructions in the mean taking place, and would act with the promptitude and
time which gave rise to increased vigilance on the part good faith to which tho noble lcrd the member for Tiver
of our cruisers, lam not disposed to say ; but I can say ton bad borne witness. Another reason he had for hoping
for the present G orernment that our earliest efforts a satisfactory solution of the present difficulty was, that
were directed to enjoining the greatest caution and in all great questions of policy as between the two nations,
prudence on the part of those engagett. I can only fur- the government of the United States and her Majesty's
ther say that, expressing as lam sure I do, not (rely the ministers were in complete accord. People in this country
sentiments of every gentleman in the houie, but of the
witnessed, without any jealousy, the expansion of the
people of this country, that a more fatal thing to the
civilisation and happiness of.. the world could not occur United States, nor did we find in the general tenor of
t` an a misunderstanding between ourselves and the American policy any cause of distrust. And feeling that
Uoit d States ; and I believe that meeting the case as there was, generally speaking, amongst the public men of
we are disposed to do in this candid spirit, the Ameri- America a desire to cultivate friendly relations with the.
can people, when they know the truth, I believe, I may 1 government and people of this country, they did not allow
say, I confidently hope, that these differences will be any occasional ebullitions like those which had of late
satisfactorily settled. (Cheers.) prevailed to induce them to believe that the established
Mr. ROEBUCK said, that from the position he held policy would be disturbed. The matter now in dispute
in the house he thought it advisable for him, very bum- was only of a very transient character, although there was
bly, to express the views he entertained on this question. no doubt but that if it were treated in an irritable spirit
He did not think the time of night was any obstacle to it might be more dangerous than its original character had
his stating it. He thought that if properly understocd led people to expect.
Mr. WARRE said that if our squadron were to be with-
by the American people it would lead them to
different concleeion to that which they now entertained. a very
drawn from the Cuban waters, and the Americans seat no
other in its place, there would, he feared, be direct en-
At the present time there were two peoples at the head
couragement given to the slave trade.
of the civilisation of the world, and they were going on
Mr. FITZGERALD said that the withdrawal of our
in their coarse towards civilising mankind ; they were squadron had not yet been decided upon; it was as yet
identical in language, they had the same institutions, under consideration.
and neatly the same government ; they were derived ASSISTANT BARRISTERS (IRELAND).
from the same origin, and were, in fact, one nation. If Mr. I. BUTT asked the Attorney-General for Ireland
in the course of these two peoples any obstruction arose, whether it was the intention of the Irish Government to
it would be the business of those who wished well to man- bring in tory bill to make better provision for the retirement
kind to bru-h away that oh sruction, and to keep there of assistant banisters, and whether any such measure had
two peoples friends. He thoeght the statement of the been prepared either by the present or late advisers of the
hon. gentleman was in accordance with that sentiment. Irish Government '
H
e had in the most conciliat o w Lord NAAS said it was felt that the interests of justice
n manner stated the vies I suffered in Ireland from the retention of their seatsby as-
of our Government on this question. No one word had sistant barristers to au advanced age, in consequence of the
fallen from his lips, either derogatory to this country or absence of any retiring allowance. If tine permitted, Go-
insulting to America. (Cheers.) He had shown through- vernment would introduce a bill to remedy the evil dui--
cut that he understood the delicate position in which we lag the present session.
were placed, and be knew well the great, he might say, NETLEY HOSPITAL.
the overwhelming, duty that was now impressed on both Mr. TITE asked the Secretary of State for War when
nations in this behalf. He was quite prepared to allow the reports of the commissioners on the hospital at Netley
the great destinies of America ; he believed that they would be laid on the table of the house, and whether any 1
were intended to be the great leaders of mankind ; he steps had been taken to suspend the works, or any part
believed that by Vie position of theirt'country, their in- thereof? The hon. member stated that although the '
healthiness of the site of. the hospital had been admitted,
stitutious, and by their character which they had de-
of there were many faults in the design which required car-
rived frau us, they were intended to be the leaders .
ti He hoped th work oaurlrdaniretd.be proceeded
mankind. But he ',as not one of those who wished to rweith°uuntil aeproper plan had. beensw
det ogate from the character or dignity of England, and Sir F. SMITH defended the design of the hospital, and
he said the language used in the American congress on General PEEL said that the reports asked for would be
this matter wis not worthy of gentlemen at the head of laid on the table in a week or ten days. With respect to
a great nation. There had been more of the Ancient alterations in the design, the officer who hal charge of the
Piste 1 and of Bo badil kind of talk than became a works Lad received orders to suspend that portion in which
great nation. They had al ways assumed that England alteration was contemplated, until such alteration had
desired to insult her, but the speech of the hon. gentle- been decided upon.
.
tnan to-night sheeted FUNDED DEBT BILL.
that we did not desire to do any-
thing to give cif:nee to our brethren over the water, This bill was read a second tame.
that we were desirous of maintaining our own dignity, SALE AND TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND)
and that we did nst intend to wound their's at all. He BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill.
sail these few words, because he had read with great On the third clause, in which Government had inserted
pale th sere i uente made by leading men in America. the appointment of a sherd judge'
He said ' hat we acting as a great people had only desired Mr. MALINS objected,- considering that two would be
to put d two that which we believed to be the great gist sufficient.
on humanity, tied slave trade—(hear)—and that in order After a short dismission the clause was agreed to.
to do this, we bad given instructions to our eahors. If, On clause 4,
in tee heat of the moment, and in the desire to do their Mr. MALINS moved an amendment to leave out the
duty, young men had been induced to go beyond the words at the end of the clause, making the qualification
line, would a great people, a friendly people, have made 15 years' actual practice at the Irish bar ; his object being
thet a reason for indulging in abuse of the country
stotamniikne tahtetrailification, as it was in England, 15 year,'
mourdstoaswthheyinst.otod wouat!,
taicte-
from which they supposed tease instructions bad ems tually egxclude ther. geTnhtlemw
meted ? He believed that our force hal merely done country was indebted for the success 'o) of tihisw.c.aosusrt—Mr.
their (il, and that the blustering statements an Tut the Hargrave— who never practised at the Irish bar, and he
neater were not true. The honourable gentleman believed never held a brief in the English courts, having
employed a cant phrase to signify that they were not been previous to his appointment a conveyancer.
rue, but he would use a shorter phrase, and he hoped The SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Mr. WHITESIDE (who denied
it would go across the water—they had told lies, and that the whole benefit of the measure was due to Mr. Har-
these lies had been told for the purpose simply of pan-
grave, who was, however, in obedience to the general wish,
denote to bed habits. He was sure that the English speciaely retained), and other members, opposed the
peopleb wished to entertain kindly feelings towards Arne, amThanedarnmenemanendi awftesrnseogmateivdeizussion,
ice. Ile was sure that the people of England wished to Sir D. NORREYS thought they oueht to have the power
employ their great power—for we possessed great power, of securing the services of the best lawyer they could get,
though we did net b act of it —in the service of inankinte• whither he were English or Irish, and he proposed that
(Hear.) If we wished to put down the slave trade, it was the clause should be altered for that purpose. He believed
not that tie wished to hurt; anybody, but to do what we as a rule the lawyers of this country were deeper read than
could for the benefit of Inanktal. We might have irju- those of Ireland, the reason being that in Ireland gentle-
dicious and generous eflicers, but he did not believe one- men of the legal profession practised generally in all the
hal nor one-tenth of the stories that had been told, and branches of the law, while in Engl ,ndthey confined their
he would not believe that Englishmen had done aught practice to separate branches. He moved that the last
sentence' of the clause should be altered by inserting the
that called on the Government to blame them for their
words, " or Westminster ;" it would then read, " who
esmdect, in the matter. lie was sure that the people of shall have practised in the superior courts of üblin or
England in this matter would maintain that great posi- Westminster:"
tion which they had over hell. They were riot to be Mr. WALPOLE suggested that the question should bo
bullied out of their rights ; they did not wish to main- deferred until the report.
taro power they ought not to have, and they did not de- After a few words from Mr4BA.G WELL,
sire to eh anything to incur the hostility of America, or The committee divided—
aoytbing to woun i the feelingi of our relatives over the For the amendiannt
water; but while they woul I do ail things proper to Against it
conciliate those on the other side of the Atlantic, they Majority --57
wool I take care of their own honour and dignity.
The clause was then agreed to, as were clauses 5-12.
Oa clause 13,
Lord J. RUSSELL thought that there was no doubt Mr. HAMILTON stated that the court would be self-
that the house would give the credit due to the Govern- supporting, a tax being imposed upon the land sold through
motif. (Hear.) With regard to the facts of the case, it the medium of the court. As it had been decided that
appeared that there was 11111011 thet yet remained to be there were to be three judges, it was proposed that Mr.
kn iwn. The instructions, as he understood M
had not boon ertley should continue to receive 3,00 e/. a year, and the
, other twojudges, 2.5)D1. a year calla CV hen year,
Martley
altered since 1811, except so far as this, that there had been ceased to hold the office, the judges would receive 2,susg.
additional instructions advising caution. The original in- each.
structions were issued by Lord Aberdeen, after a great Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked whether the officers of the
court were to be pensioner] ?
deal of consultation with persons fully competent to advice old
Mr. WHITESIDE said that every ono of them would
and among others Dr. Leshington, and those instructions be employed in the new court.

The clause was agreed to.
On chase 19, providing for the retiring allowances of
the judges,
11.dr. WILSON asked if they would be entitled to the
allowance after a certain number of years' service.
Mr. WHITESIDE could inform the hon. gentleman
that, whatever might be the case in England, it. was not
the practice for the judges to retire. (Laughter.)
The clause was then agreed to.
Clause 20 was expunged.
Clauses 21 to 30 were agreed to.
On clause 31,
Mr. DOBBS proposed that 72 words instead of 90 should
constitute the folio of the court.
The committee divided--
For the amendment
Against
ajority —los
Clause 31 was then agreed to.
Ou clause 3 ~
Sir E. PERRY moved to insert the f-llowing words
"And generally the examination as to all disputed facts
shalt be according to the roles of common law."
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL resisted the proposal,
on ne ground that in many cases tie mode of proceed-
ing by :it-Davits: was preferable ; but power was given to
employ viva voce examinations whenever it was thought
proper.
The words were thin negatived, and the clause was
agreed to. -
Mr. BUTT moved to omit clause 3S, which gave the
judges of the court power to try is-ucs of fact. Those
learned gentlemen had had no experience at nisi prise,
and their time would be fully occupied by the proper
duties of their office.
Mr, WHITESIDE defended the clause on the ground
of its similarity to a similar provision in the Probate
Act.
Mr. MILLER supported the clause. The power pro-
posed to be given was a most essential one.
After some conversation,
Toe amendment was negatived without a division,
and Vie ,Luse agreed to.
Oa clause 40,
Mr. BUTT moved to add certain words to give an
appeal to the full court from any ruling or order of a
single judge. Such an appeal would be especially
neceesary in new trial motions.

Mr. WILITSE EDE could not adopt the amendment.
The appeal to the Court of Chancery aas suffioieat.
There would be no advantage in establishing an inter-
mediate appeal.
Mr. Serg, ant DEASY opposed the amendment. If
adopted it would only load to a waste of the judges'
time and the parties' money.
On clause 41, reguLting the proceeding in appeals,
Mr. MALINS thought the time, thirty days, allowed
for appealing was too short. He moved to extend the
period to three months.
After a conversation the amendment was adopted and
the clause agreed to.
Cltuse 47, after some discussion, was agreed to.
Clauses 48 and 50 having been agreed to,
The CIIAIRMAN reported progress.
STANHOPE AND WA.LSINGFIAM RECTORIES
BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
COWLEY'S CHARITY BILL—HARVEY'S
CHARITY BILL.
These bills passed through countnitoe.
BRISTOL MUNICIPAL CHARITIES BILL.
This bill also paeecd through committee.
PORTENDIC AND ALBREDA CONVENTION.
On the motion of Sir E. BULWER LYTTON, leave
was given to bring in a bill to remove doubts as to the
opera ion of a convention between her Majsty and the
Emperor of the Fronch relivive to Portendic and Al-
breaa.
RAILWAYS ACT (IRELAND) CONTINUANCE.
Lord NAAS obtained leave to bring. in a bill to con-
thine the Mil ways Act (Ireland) 1851, f4.r one year.
The house adjourned at 20 minutes to one.

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Country Markets.

LIVERPOOL, JUNE 18.

Thom was again a very poor attendance to-day, and both
wheat and flour were a very slow sale, at about Tuesday's
prices. Oats and oatmeal neglected. Barley, beans, and
peas the turn lower. Indian corn in small demand at 31s
9d to 35s for yellow, and 33s fid to 31s for white.