The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-26 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool-
sack at five o'clock.
The Earl of DIJCIE presented petitions from fourteen
places in Gloucestershire, praying for the abolition of
church-rates.
Tbe Duke of SOMERSET presented others to the
same effect.
The Earl of CARNARVON presented a petition
from Chests field, in D..rbyshire, in favour of the
restoration to their rights of the royal family of
Oude, on terms consistent with the honour of England.
The Bishop of OXFORD presented petitions from
several places in Oxfordshire agaicet the abolition of
church rates, unless an equivalent were provided.
THE SLAVE TRADE.

The Bishop of OXFORD begged to ask the noble
earl, the Under-Secretary to the Celenies' when the
papers relating to the horrible crime which had been the
subject of discussion the other night, would be laid on
the table ? and also with re,peot to the exportation of
coolies, whetherher Mai !ety's Government were prepared
to take in hand such measures as might be necessary
for purifying that trade ? Toe reason why ho was
anxious to get an answer was not only that
the immediate evil, the kidnapping of men,
might be checked by the interference of the
government, bat also because the legitimate exerrta-
tions of those who were willing to go—a thing of the
first moment—(hear, hear, from Lord Brougham)—was
endangered by the continuance of the compulsory
exportation which brought upon the free emigration
the taint cf the slave trade. Toe different journals
in this country in the interest of slavery would stu•
diously and laboriously eudeaveur to represent that he
and those who took the same view with bim
were opposed to the free emigration of
1301ita. Nothing could be more untrue. The
exportation of collies to the Mauritius was
attended with great benefit not only to the island but
to the coolies themselves, who being perfectly free, often
returned home, and, by their accounts, induced their
countrymen to emigrate. It seemed of the greatest
moment to put a stop to the f orced exportation, as the
rise of that traffic threatened the existence of the
wholesome exportation which it was so desirable to en-
courage and promote.
The Earl of CARNARVON said that with regard to
the papers every possible despatch should be made in
producing them; at the same time, since they were of
great length; he did not think they could be laid on
the table before ten days or a fortnight hence. As re-
garded the other point, a measure was at that mo-
ment in preparation by his right honourable friend
at the head of the Colonial Department, and he
hope i it would be in his power some time next
week to lay the bill on the table, and ask their lordships
to give it a first reading.
Lord BROUGHAM. said that how his noble friend
was misrepresented, as be bad been, was to him utterly
incredible. Ile had not the least objection himself to
the legitimate emigration of Coolies to our own settle-
ments of the Mauritius and the colonies, wherever their
personal liber y would be ensured.
PRIVATE BILLS.
On the motion of Lord REDESDALE, the Lancashire
and Yorkshire and East Lancashire Railway Com.
panies bill was read a second time, and the foil wing
were read a third tine and pawed, viz. :—Sir Benjamin
Hall's Estate, Balby and Worksop Road, Llanelly
Harbour, Waterford Gas, Ilalif tx Park and Improve-
tnente (as amended), Dean Forest Turnpike Trust (as
amended) ; and Andover Canal Railway (as amended)
bills.

COLONISATION IN INDIA.
The Earl cf ALBERMARLE moved, "That a mess
sage be sent to the House of Commons for a copy of the
firs' report Irene the select committee of the House of
Gammon,: on colonisation asol seettletnent (India) ; and
to call the attention of the house t the vast importance
of an extensive settlement of British-born subjects in
India, with a view to the promotion of the moral and
material interest of that country, and its security against
future insurrection, as well as to advert to the main ob-
racks which are at present opposed towards such a set-
tlement." Slate most important evidence had been
given before this committee, and it was I kely that their
lordships would be called on to legislate upon the sub-
ject next session. The witnesses examined before the
committee we all men of intelligence. Ho was con-
vinced that a large iefusion of Europeans into Indian
society, an lan extensive conversion to Christianity.
were the only means by which our empire in India could
be maintained. It was only since 1853 that Europeans
generally had been permitted to enter the country, and
new they could only do so wi h the license of the E .st
India Company. They naturally loeked for protection to
their persons and property ; but there was a want of a
proper administration of juvice which had been admitted
ever since 1853. A commission then appointed had cost
the country 800;0001., hut its suggestions had been worse
than useless. The commissioners recommended the abo- '
lition of the Qaeen's courts; and by the " Black Art,"
as it was called, Europeans were deprived of trial by
jury and habeas corpus. Toe judges of the courts were
the company's servants, whose twee ircompotency for
their office bad been pointed out by Mr. Halliday, the
Lieut.-Governor of Bombay. It was said that the com-
pany's servants knew the language of the country, but
it was impossible they could know them all. Not only
would the Europeans be subject to the jurisdiction of
these musts, but also to that of native judger,. In the pre-
leidenoy of Bombay there were no lees than 65 Sepey
judges, some of whom bad rebelled. There were also
great objectionsto the e xisting syitena of land revenue, and
unless something more nearly approaching to revolu-
lotion than reform were adopted, our supremacy in India
would be at an end. The assessment was most escorbi-
, tent; in roost cases nine-tenths of the produce was
claimed as rental. The talookdar system, introduced by
Lord Cornwallis in 1793 into Bengal, was the only re-
deernieg feature in our Government ; in rll other parts
of India, where it did not prevail, there hal been severe
and frequent famines, Tne taleokdars held their lands
by a title not more exoepti matee than that by which
- many of their lordships held their e4ates. In the north-
west provinces, which were coded and conquered in
1801 and 1803, the permanent system established in
Bengal had been promised, but was never granted. In
many cases the whols of the land ha l been ,xaeted for the
rent; and the result was the 'recent rebellion, with all
its horrible consequencee. The people were everywhere
in favour of the talookdare, who were received with open
arms, although dep ived of their land. Tel a clear un-
derstanding was arrived at between the Givernrnent
and the talookdars be believed that peace would be im-
passible. The system of Lord Dalhousie ought to be
immediately set aside, having been established in perfect
ignorance of the wants of the country. The course we
bad been pursuing in India was without any precedent
in history. Our predecessors had won the country by
the sword ; but it was not with the sword that they bad
retained it. They had retained it by settling on the
scene of their conquests. The same thing had been
done in Central and South America ; but in India, after
an occupation cf a century, there were ecarcely,a thou-
sand permanent European settlers.
The Earl of MALMESBUH V regretted that the
noble earl ebou d have selected such a moment for specu-
lations such as those in which he had just indulged. He
(Lord Malmesbury) was afraid there would not be much
temptation for Europeans to colonise India until the
• •ietry was in a more settled state.
Tire returns were then ordered.
THE RIVER.
The Duke of BUCCLEUC a said that, although there
Iwere three or four bodies who were charged with the
care of the metropolitan sewage, nothing whatever had
bean done to improve the state of the Thames. He did
not bring forward the subject as a question of personal
annoyance, because, although the state of the river was
no doubt a grievous annoyance to him on account of the
nearness of his house, be had it in his power to go else-
where. The same might be said of there lordships ; but
there were large bodies of their fellow-subjec's who must
perforce submit to the nuisance ani the peril of the pre-
sent state of things. (Cheers.) He (the noble duke) some-
times heard itsaid, "Oh but the stench is not so bad as
it was yesterday." The truth, however was that a change
of the wind had only relieved them at the expense of
their neighbours. There might, for ia-tance, be days
when their lordships Would be scarcely cognisant of the
nuisance, but when the smell atlambeth would be intole-
rable. The condition of the river had been rapidly alter-
ing for the worse during the last few years. Many causes
had no doubt contributed to that result. The enormous
increase of the population and the improvements which
bad been made in the drainage of the metropolis had
been greatly instrumental in bringing about this change
and the extraordinary dryness of the season had also bad
a good deal to do with it. Formerly it was found that
what little offensiveness the river possessed was at low
water ; but now the worst time was before and just
after high water. He believed that the action of the
steamers during the last ten years had diminished the
amount of mud in the neighbourhood of the house, but
the removal of old London•bridge had,
by increasing the
scour, and thereby deepen tog the channel, caused more
of the river's bed to be exposed at low water. A great
many schemes had been proposed for remedying the nui•
glance. They were told for instance, that they might get
rid of it altogether by simply embanking the river. No
doubt by that means they would get rid of the mud which
was now exposed at low water, but it was the water
itself that was infected. Some people again said that it
was oily on the upper part of the river that the nui-
sance was complained of ; but that was not true. The
medical officers on board the Dreadnought complained
just as loudly as any one el-e of the effiavia which
came from the Thames. The passengers on board the
steamers had materially decreased, and instances were
not rare of persons having to be removed from the ves-
sels in a sick or fainting c edition. One case of Asiatic
cholera arising from the stench had already been re-
ported, and it was dreadful to think what would be the
result if an epidemic were to break out. (Hear.) He
thought the matter had come to such a state that their
lordships were bound to press upon the executive the
reeeseity of taking some steps iu order to remedy the
evil. (Loud cheers.)
The Earl of MALMESBURY said the noble duke
bad not at all exaggerated the unf n-tunate condition of
the river ; and he could not but feel, in common with
their lordships, that it was disgraceful to the country
that such a state of things should have occurred, and
that there should have been so much mismanagement,
for he could give it no other name. (Hear.) There could
be no doubt that it was the duty of her Majesty's Minis-
tered to take immediate steps to arrest, it possible, this
evil ; but their lordships must be aware that an act of
Parliament would be necessary to give the Government
the necessary powers. (Hear.) His own opinion was that
so body of men in the form of a corporation was compe-
tent to undertake the remedy that was required. An act
of Parliament would be necessary ; but before her Ma-
jesty's Government proposed any measure they must be

content to wait until the committee which was now sit-
ting on the subject made its report.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE could not but exprees
the regret with which he had heard the answer of the
noble earl. For a long series of years they had had com-
mittee after committee, and commission after commis-
sion, and their lordship's table was laden with evidence
which, if anybody could read it, would give them all the
information they could possibly desire. He could not,
therefore, see what advantage could he expected from the
report of the cimmittee now sitting. (Hear, hear) He
hoped, therefore, that her Majesty 'e Government would
deal ciurageously with this subject, for they had a
great opportunity before them. (Hear, hear.) Par-
liament was helpless : they were willing to be saved,
if the Government would only come forward and save
them. (Hear.) Every step they had hitherto taken in
this matter had been a step in the wrong direction. Only
last year he bad ventured to object to the passing of an
act which had greatly complicated the difficulty—the act,
namely, which vested the conservancy of the river in
the Corporation of the City of London, but be had only
received the support of five noble lords. In the present
state of things an arbitrary act would be absolutely neces-
sary. (Hear.) They would never accomplish their ohjee•
unless they gave the Government power to deal with the
question themselves. If they referred to the history of
sanitary improvement, they would find that the same
thing had always occurred. Take the case of the burial
grounds, an evil, however, which could not be for one
moment compared with that under which the metropolis
was now suffering, and respecting which be believed
there had been some exaggerati in. But an evil it was,
and ne remedy for it could be found until they gave the
cretary of State power by a peremptory order to do e
every cemetery he thought proper. He hoped that a
short bill conferring upon the Government the neces-
sary powers would be brought in as soon ai possible.
(Elear.) None of the schemes that had been proposed
would meet the case. Mere erabent ment R OUI I not do.
Embankment on both sides would no doubt be found
essential ; but unle-s it was accompanied by a system
of intercepting sewers it would absolutely increase the
evil. The river must be brought back to the state it was
in former years, and to the state in which the Stine now
was in the city of Paris. (Hear.) They must, in short,
be prepared to expend a very large stun cf money ; but
without expressing any opinion as t) whether the public
should not bear some portion of the cost, he hoped the
Government would not consent to spare the metropolis
any very large amount of the burden. The metrop
was an enormously wealtSy community, and it ought to
be able to provide itself with everything necessary for the
preservation cf the health cf its inhahitanta. (Hear.) Un-
less they took immediate steps to abate the present nuis•
ante, they must expect, not typhus or choleramerely, but
a second plague. They seemed to he entirely upon a
cycle of hot seasons ; and though, by the blessing of
God, they might escape this year, they could not hope to
do so a Second time. (Hear.) He trusted, theref ire, that
the government would not wait fir the report of the
committee to which the noble earl had referred.
The Earl of HARD WICKE said that the only diffi
culty the Government felt was as to the proper course
to be adopts I under the circumstances. The comninee
was not sitting on the general question of draining the
metropolis, but its inquiries bad special reference to the
state of the river. Ho thought the committee woel I very
speedily come to its decision, for there could be no great
difficaty in determining that the riser was in a very dan-
gerous condition, and it was no doubt the intention of
the Government to act upon the report. (Hear, hear.) It
seemed to him that in draining the metropolis they had
begun at the wrong end. The most ordinary labourer
would have told them that in making a drain they ought
to begin at the outfall, instead cf which they had pro-
ce tided to abolish :be old cesspools, and to drain into the
existing Brasserie without determining where the sell ige
should eo. To remove the mud of the iiver would effect
little, fur it was the water itself that was infected. There
was no way in which they could satisfactorily deal with
the nuisance unites they made a large main newt r, which
would carry the refuse of the metropolis directly to the
sea. (Hear.) The residium of the sewage was of no value
at all in an agricultural point of view—all its valuable
ingredients being held in susper se by the water its, If
(Hoar.) They in short mast be prepared to spend three or
four millions of money upon the works that wou'd be
required. (Hear, bear.)
Eerl GRANVILLE said the house was entitled to
bear the opinions, not of the noble earl, hut of the Go-
vernment; and he hoped that at the nest rneetivg el
their lordship they would do so. (Hear, hear.)
Lerd CAMPBELL referred to the state of the courts
at Westminster, and was understood to say, that if
things went on as they did at present, it would be ne-
cessary to move them to Oxf rd or St. Alba, s, or some
other provincial town.
Lord PORTMAN said a noble lord had talked of re-
storing the Thames te the state in which it was in former
years ; butithat was not easy to do, for they abstatc:eil
from it 82,000 000 gallons of pure water which they did
not restore till it had been ternigh all the water closes
io London. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) If they prop, sod
to commit this matter to a committee, it must not be one
consisting of many persons. (Hear, hear) It would be
far better to have only one man whom they could trust,
but at all events the fewer the better. (Cheers.) He
hoped an act of Parliament would be passed without de-
lay for the purpose of carrying out this suggestion ; but
in the meantime he would remind their lerdships that
nothing could be more dangerous than to create a plague
panic. (Rear, hear.)
The Marquis of SALISBURY agreed with the noble
lord that nothing could be more prejudicial than to create
an alarm of pestilence. The subject was ono of great dif-
ficulty. A few years egos Metropolitan Bard of Works
was appointed, and things had been a great deal worse
than aver they were before. The subjsct had not escaped
the attention of the Government; and he hoped that the
present session would not pass without some result.
Earl GREY said the observationsof the noble marquis
had filled hint with extreme disappointment. There was
one thing even worse tban creating a panic, and that
was to underestimate the magnitude of the danger.
(Cheers.) If any of their lordship wculd go int. the
libiary he would leave them to pay whether they had
ever smelt anything like it before. (A. laugh.) I. Wag
was impossible to conceive how such a smell could fail
to be eminently prejedicial to the public health. (Hear.)
He quite agreed that it weal Ibe far be t-r to entrust
the tnat'er to one, two, or three professionel men of emi-
nence. If, for instance, such a man as Mr. Stephenson,
would undertake the work, so much the better; but at
all events they should appoint only two or three persons,
and make them responsible for the work. Give them
authority to epsai money under the supervision of the
Government, and provide them with means. (Rear.)
Lord REDESDALE agreed with the noble lord as to
the desirability of putting the matter into the hands of
some person, if any engineer of sufficient eminence
wend undertake the task, Whoever came forward,
however, would have to throw himself, like Curtius,
into the gulf, and he must expect to find himself exces-
sively abused, (" Hear," and a laugh.) This was a
question which not merely affected London, but ail
other towns. The condition they bad brought London
to was very nearly that of every other town in the
country. Nearly all the rivers and water channels in
the country were being rendered impure, and unless this
question was taken up generally throughout the coun-
try, and a new sy-tem adopted of getting rid of the ffth
of towns, there was no tolling wbat the consequences
might be. He might state what had occurred this year
with regard to Manchester. In Manchester they cleansed
the town by means of cesspools and local arrangements,
which, he was informed, were admirably managed. There
was a bill before Perliament connected with that town.
It was a water bill, be believed, and in all water hill,
there were certain provisions which he might almost say
were stereotyped. The parties came before him, and die.
tinctly said that any system of that sort would be preju-
dicial to the town, and that at present all the filth was
removed through the act of the corporaiicn. He said
he could not take upon himself the responsibility of
placing them in a different position from all other towns;
but, if they would put in the preamble of the bill a state-
ment that there was such a state of things, be would
raise no objsctien ; but he was told tbat the committee
of the Commons would not hear of the provisions of the
bill being different from those of other towns. It might
be all right, but he believed that the system of turning
all this filth into the sewers and thence into the water-
c ,ursee and rivers would produce in the country evils
similar to that which now aft oted London. From hav-
ing local bills brought before him, he knew that this evil
was spreading. He had bad complaints from various
districts ; there seemed a general desire to get rid of
the filth of towns, with ageneral inability to accomplish
the object in any other way than that which was now be-
coming so prevalent. He believed that one of the causes
that had led to the impurity of the Thames had been the
taking away of old London Bridge, and getting rid of the
darn which the bridge made. Before that was done,
scarcely any of the tide water came ap above bridge at
all. Now, the tide flowed a long way up the river and
brought back all tee impurities. He thought that the
expense of the drainage of London ought t ) fall solely
on the district. When they remembered the enormous
works now being carried on in all the provincial towns
for the improvement of those towns, which did not ask
for one sixpence of the public money for those improve-
ments, and would not get it if they did, surely they
would not look to any other source than the wealthy me•
tropolis for the expenses of its own drainage.
Lord EBURY said he was exceeding glad that atten-
tion had been called to this subject, because it was not
London only, but a great many other towns in the king-
dom were suffering from the impurity of the rivers,
which were polluted with drains. Two or three years
ago a Nuisance Removal and Prevention Bill was recom-
mended to the House of Commons by a committee, which
sat for a long time and entered into a variety of details,
and in that bill a clause was inserted that no manufac-
turer should be allowed to discharge the offensive mat-
ter produced in the manufactory without using the best
known remedy for rendering the matter se discharged
innocuous. With regard to gas, there were stringent
provisions in the various gas acts to prevent the dis-
charge and the refuse, and if the house would in the
next General Health Bill insert a similar clause with re-
gard to other manufactories, they would do a great deal
to remedy the evil they were now complaining of. Until
within the last 10 or 12 years, they had commissioners of
sewers for the various districts of London, whose duty
it was to prevent any one turning filth into the sewers.
But the Legislature chose to insist on a different system
being adopted, and now, instead of no private individuals
being allowed to drain their houses into the sewer, they
were all compelled to do so. They must not blame the
local authorities too much, because it was only lately
that this system had been adopted, and it was Parlia-
ment that had compelled them to adopt it. With regard
to the Board cf Works, be did not think any men could
have been more laborious and painstaking than the gen-
tlemen composing that board had been. They bad exa-
mined plans and consulted engineers, and they went to
the late Government, and said, " If you will give us a
little assistance by a guarantee, so that we shall not have
,o borrow money at a ruinous intertSts WO can Footed

PAPERS.
Sir D. NORREYS asked the Secretary to the Trea-
sury whether any arrangement had yet been made for
the more speedy and regular delivery to rnemberg at
their residences of papers "presented by command ?"
Mr. WALPOLE said that if the hon. baronet would
ref. r to the paper of the 221 June he would find a list
of papers with the notification, "The undermentioned
papers have been presented by command ; copies will be
delivered to members applying at the office for the sale
of Parliamentary papers." A similar notification con-
stantly appeared ie the votes. Formerly all papers so
presented were delivered to every member, but as the
expense was very great a restriction was introduced by
the late Government. The papers were left a' Han-
sard's office, and any member wishing for them had only
to call there and sign an order. The papers were de-
livered at his residence ni xt day.
S:r D. NORREYS complain,d that the report of the
Department of Science and Art had not yet been de-
livered to many members who had applied for it.
FURBER V. STURNIEY.—COUNTY COURT I
JUDGES.

Mr. FITZROY asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether his attention bad been called
to the ju talent delivered in the Court of Exchequer
on the 25th of May last, in tha case of Farber v. Star-
mey ;" and if so, whether he was prepared to introduce
a bill to alter and amend the 43rd section of the act
19th and 20th Viet., c. 108, or take any other course to
place the state of the law in this respect on a more satis-
factory footing ?
Mr. WALPOLE said his attention had been called
to the judgment-. He thought it would be very unfor-
tunate if the law there laid down was to be maintained
as regarded county-court judges. The Lord Chancellor
had a bill in preparation relating to county courts, and