The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-06 00:00:00

EXPORTED BRITISH SPIRITS.

-
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved a
Nuys and Means,
In Committee of Way
drawback of 2d a
g anufactured,
allon on raw
spirits, and 3d. on rectified spirits, British m
resolution allowing a
entered for exportation.
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY said it was usual to print reso-
lUtions of this kind, in order that those who took an interest
in such matters might
at the discussion of themhave an opportunity of being present
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
substance of the resolution had been printed, and had been
in
that thful handsnotice of
had been members some four or five days ago; so
l
The resolution was then gi
agreed everybody interested.
t. •
SAVINGS BANKS AND FRIENDLY SOCIETIES
INVESTMENT BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER pro-
ceeded to explain the objects of the bill. The law authorised
savings banks, under voluntary and independent manage-
ment, to receive money from depositofs, with conditions as to
interest and other matters; and itprovided that the managers
should forward the deposits to an institution in London,
whence they passed into the immediate custody of govern-
ment. The savings bank, then, was intermediatebetween the
government and the depositors, and divided the whole sub-
ject into two departments. With the first of these the present
bill had nothing whatever to de. The subject was one of
great importance, and he regretted that the recent con •
mitten on savings banks entirely ignored that part of the
subject. It was with the government management of the
funds that the bill proposed to deal. The first principle of the
bill was the substitution of a real and Loran fide statement of
this portion of the national debt for the present unsatisfac- ,
tory, because untrue, statement that was ennually made.
At present the a sets of the savings bank commissioners
did not quite equal their liabilities, and a difference of opinion
existed as to the cause of this. Some thought it mainly
owing to the nature of the terms on which the money was
received. A fixed rate of interest was allowed to depositor s
itn savings banks. It followed that when the funds were
high, and the rate of interest generally was low, the re was
a great disposition to invest in savings banks, because the
fixed rate of interest was something better than they were
likely to obtain elsewhere ; but when the funds were low the
case was reversed, and there was an inducement to call in
money from the savings banks, and sales were necessary In
order to procure the cash. Thereforel the normal state of
these saving banks commissioners was to buy when the
market was high and sell when Ihe market was low. Dut
whether or net this was the cause of the discrepancy in h.
aecOunts, We amount between the deposits and the asset 4
was £2,000,000, There wag ;t doAbt that the 4spottos

had, if not altogether a legal, yet in every case an equitable
claim for every farthing the Government had received, and
this bill would give them their full legal title. It was pro-
posed to open a book in which should be written all the
sums which the Government had received. Instead of
holding this amount of stock with its varying and fluctuat-
tin,g value, the Government should cancel a great amount
of the stock, and in lieu of it enter into a book which was
to contain the State deposits, carry forward the capital
from time to time, and so to balance the capital as to render
as much as possible the real amount of the obligations of
the State to the savings banks. That was the explanation
of the Ist and 2d clauses of the bill. The 3d clause had
been framed upon the principle of maintaining the annual
charge at somewhere where it now was. The principle
was exactly analogous to the principle which now regu-
lated by law the unpaid dividends of the national debt.
The commissioners were to retain in -their hands such a
sum as might be sufficient to meet any probable amount
of calls. The possibility of calls extending beyond
the limit was provided for by the bill, which gave power to
the commissioners to change the stock into marketable se-
curities. The general rule would be that about three-fourths
of those liabilities would henceforward be represented in the
sums described in the state deposit account. In the sth
clause was provided another and most important limitation
of the powers of the executive government. It was there
provided that deficiency bills, if Exchequer Bills, might not
be funded by the Commissioners for the Reduction of the
National Debt. By means of that power, whenever there
was a deficiency in the public revenue, or in the sum appli-
cable to meet the Consolidated Fund charges for the coming
quarter, it was in the power of the executive to supply that
deficiency by means not of therevenue of the year, nor of ti •
funds of Parliament, but by means of monies obtained from
the savings banks or friendly societies. Even in cases when
the revenue of the year was sufficient for the year, yet still,
from the peculiar arrangements of the Consolidated Fund,
it was in the power of the executive to meet the charge by
deficiency bills, and subsequently through the Commis-
sioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, without
consulting Parliament; and thus a large permanent addition
to the public debt of the country could be made without the
knowledge or consent of Parliament. That power would be
entirely done away with by the fifth clause. They now
came to a set of provisions, in which it was provided that
the commissioners should have a larger liberty for the in-,
vestment of those funds than they had hitherto possessed.
Heretofore the power of the commissioners, as far as invest-
ments were concerned, was limited to Exchequer Bills and
Exchequer Bonds. Now, he thought that a greater latitude
ought to be given to the commissioners for the investment
of those funds, provided that the further limits of such
investments should be distinctly defined. He proposed
to give them power to invest in other stocks issued by
the authority of Parliament, sach as the proprietary
stock of the East India Company, in respect to which
a certain amount of guarantee was given by the
legislature. And there were other more recent stocks
also issued on the authority of Parliament to which the same
liberty would extend. The commissioners were also em-
powered to exchange the securities under certain circum-
stances, which he thought it would ba better to explain
when the bill was in committee. The Bth and the 9th
clauses provided for the bolancing the accounts on the Bth
November in each year, so as to show the real amount of
the liability of the state to the depositing parties. The 11th
clause provided the anode by which an absolute title would
be given to the friendly societies and savings banks. It
gave them in all cases an absolute claim on the securities of
the state. The general effect of this measure would be to
create a considerable public economy in the management of
those funds. It was impossible for him at that moment ac-
curately to estimate the extent to which that economy
would go, but recollecting that the commissioners had in
their hands about £40,000,000, they would be empowered to
cancel £31,000,000 out Of that amount. By the law as it
was at present fixed a certain sum per million was payable
to the Bank of England for the management of every mil-
lion of that money passing through the hands of the Com-
missioners for the Reduction of the National Debt. When
that arrangement was made it never was contemplated that
the state should become possessor of those vast sums, nearly
the whole of which remained without any transfer. There
would thus be it saving of £3OO on every million, which
would amount, in the whole, to a saving of about £9,000 or
£lO,OOO a year, under the proposed arrangement. Over and
above that the commissioners would realise a better income
upon funds guaranteed by Parliament, although not of the
nature of Parliamentary stocks nor securities of the United
Kingdom. Ho thought probably in the course of two or
three years the effect would be to sale permanently to the
country about £40,000 or £50,000 a year. Power was given
to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt,
over and above the forms of investment he had mentioned,
to invest for the purposes of the Exchequer Loan Fund. He
did not intend to ask the house at that time to agree to that
part of the bill, but he thought it was worthy of considers.
Lion whether the Government ought to become lenders of
money, for even the most-useful purposes, at a time when
they were already in debt, when they had a fund open to
them for that purpose. He believed the Exchequer Loan.
Fund to be of a most useful character, and one that had
worked extremely well; nevertheless, he thought that the
power to which he had just referred might be exercised
with the greatest advantage. He had no further explana-
tions to offer, and would conclude by the. expression of a.
hope that the details of the bill would secure the best atten-
tion of the house. (Hear.)
Mr. HENLEY did not rise to offer any opposition to the
second reading of the bill, or to discuss whether the mode
in which the Government proposed to carry out the object
in view, was the best or not. The object was an important
one, and much of its efficiency must depend upon details
which could only be fully and properly considered in com-
mittee. Those were the only observations he had to make
on the subject, and as it was one on which both sides of the
house could have but one interest—that of putting it on a
satisfactory footing—he hoped an opportunity would be al-
lowed for discussing it deliberately in all its details.
Mr. AYRTON trusted that, in committee, the interest,
of the depositors would be properly secured.
The bill was then read a second time.
VALUATION OF RATEABLE PROPERTY
(IRELAND) BILL.
This bill as amended was considered and ordered to be
read a third time.
PACKET SERVICE (TRANSFER OF CONTRACTS)
BILL.
The bill passed through committee and was reported.
MEDICAL ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill.
The several clauses of the bill were agreed to, and the
bill passed through committee.
SETTLED ESTATES ACTS (1856) AMENDMENT
BILL.
Mr. WHITESIDE moved the second reading of this
bill.

Mr. BYNG moved that the bill be read a second time
that day six months. The hon. gentleman said that there
was no new question. It was first introduced into Parlia-
ment in 1829, and the object was to give to the promoters
of the measure power to build houses on Hampstead-heath.
That bill was, however, rejected, ae were also several other
bills ha"ing a similar object. Believing that this measure
was calculated to affect the rights and privileges of his con-
stuents, he must oppose it.
Mr. WHITESIDE said he did not understand how any
man who respected the rights of property could object to
this bill. Some persons, however, objected to the measure
on the ground that it would give Sir Thomas Wilson power
to apply to the Court of Chancery to enable him to build
houses on Hampstead-heath. It was suggested that if a
clause were inserted in the bill expressly preventing Sir
Thomas Wilson from applying to the Court of Chancery
to build houses on Hampstead-heath, that that would get
rid of the objection entertained against the bill by the hon.
members for the metropolis. Well, a clause of the kind was
inserted in the bill, but now it was said that this clause
would not prevent Sir Thomas Wilson from erecting houses
in sight of Hampstead-heath, and it was upon this ground
it was still objected to. He did, not, however, think the
house would assent to the amendment which was in oppo.
University;
sition to the rights of property.
Mr. E. JAMES said that if an English member had
brought in a bill to enclose a heath used by the people of
Dublin for healthful enjoyment, there would be no more
eloquent opponent of the measure than the right hon. and
thDunibleain..
is
The bill would give the promoter of it the power to build a
wall round Hemp
learned gentleman
sthteesmdhmebatehr.forThis
was the el
sure that had been brought into that house on this subject,
It had also been reported against four times by the judges.
The other m
theasuresam s had been rejected by that house, and
he trusted e e res Ult would occur in this that had
taken place on former cases.
Mr. ALCOCK expressed his determination to support the
amendment proposed by the hon. member for Middlesex.'
Mr. ROUVERIE supportedthe second reading of the bill.
Lord FERMOY thought there could be no hesitation as
to what was the intention of the testator, who had devised
three estates, in respect to two of which he gave ample
leasing and building
powers, and in respectto the third of
which he abstained from doing so. It was fair to presume
therefore, that on the two estates he intended that his heir
should build, and on the third that he should not. The
promoters of this measure took credit for not encroaching
upon the actual Heath; to which he replied, " Thank you
for nothing ; you could not do so, inasmuch as the Heath
itself belongs to the copyholiers, and you dare not inter-
fere." He objected to their even building round the Heath,
as they would very much cut it up by carting their mate-
rials overt;
to build a wall right round it. As to what had been said
about the metropolitan members, they had naturally an
interest in all that could contribute to the health, recrea-
tion, and enjoyment of their constituents. The promoters
of this bill endeavoured by a sidewind, by bringing in as a
public bill what they knew they could not pass as a private
bill, to defeat the objects of the testator. There was, how -
ever, no chance of the attempt succeeding.
Mr. GEORGE supported the bill, because he saw no
reason why this should be made an exceptional case.
Mr. ROBERT HAN BURY said this was a question on
which he need say but very little. The metropolitan mem-
bers represented people to whom fresh air and recreation
were of the utmost importanca. This was a poor man's
question, and those who supported the motion opposed the
poor man's interests.

The house then divided—
Ayes
Noes B6
Majority against
The snnoundement was received with loud cheering.
REPEAL OF THE PAPER DUTIES.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER obtained
leave to bring in a bill to repeal the paper duties, which
was read a first time.

ROSCOMMON.
A new writ was ordered for this county, and the house
adjourned at 25 minutes past 11.

BIRT us.

EIZON.—On. the 4th inst., at Erith, the wife of Henry
Elton, ' of a
d4atuh ngihtsetr.:
n the
at Southfield, Wandsworth,
the wife of Charles Kinloch, Esq., of a daughter.

MARRIAGES. •
MITCHELL—BEECROPT.—On the 3d inst., at St. Mary's,
Islington, William henry Mitchell, Esq., of her Majes-
ty's Customs, London, to Sarah, sister of the late Thos.
Beecroft, Esq., of Milk-i•treet, city, and Richmond Villas,
Larnsbury.

DEATHS.
BAILKER.---011 the 3d inst., at Broadwater, near Worthing,
John Barker, Esq., aged Si.
WORTLEY.—On the 3d inst., at Overton House, Wake
field, Amy Cicely, infant daughter of the Hon. Francis
and Mrs. Stuart Wortley.
WRIGHT.—On the 11 inst., in Path, Stephen Amand
Wright, Esc! , late at the head of the Ordnlnce Depar4-
ment, Tower of London, and of West-hill, 'Wandsworth,
aged 71.

•
LONDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG,
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. 112,
Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the onati of
Middle/oz, Tuesday, March 6, 1860.