The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-27 00:00:00

mended the consideration of this point to the Govern-
ment in their promised R form Bill.
Mr. BASS thought that if the bill bad not been
brought in at so late a period of the sts-ion it would not
have passed so readily. The Secretary of State had given
an incoutestible argument ag,ainsi. the bill when he ad-
mitted that the measure was incomplete, and that he
intended nest session to deal with the whole question.
On the question that the bill do pass, the house di-
vided—the numbers were—
For the motion 92
Against it 59
Majority
The bill was then passed.
INDIA BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was his intention to proczed this evenieg with
this bill, and he understood that the bill would
be reprinted and in the hands of members by 9 o'clock
this evening. If, however, it was the wish of the house
he would not proceed with the amendments to-night.
After some remarks from Lord J. Russell, Mr. V.
Smith, and Lord Palmerston,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER poste
paned the consideration of the Lords' amendments till
to-morrow morning.

a sensible bill, and he should vote that it be restored to 7'
its ori'iral integrity. (Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON said the qnestien had been con-
sidered and debated by the bouPe, and the clause struck
cut by the Lords had been re-affirmed by the Commons,
and he thought the house should adhere to its decision.
The amendments were then severally negatived with-
out a division, and a committee was appointed to draw
up reasons for rejecting the Lords' amendments,
The Judgments (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill was
read a third time and passed.
The Lords' amendments to the following bills were
then severally considered and agreed to :—Stipendiary
Magistrates, &c.; Titles of Land (Scotland) ; and Sale
and Transfer of Lands (Ireland) Bills.
The Endowed Schools Law Amendment Bill was with-
drawn.
The Trustees, Mortgagees, &c., Bill we; read a second
time.
LAW OF PROPERTY AMENDMENT BILL.
Oo tie motion that this bill, as amended, be considered,
Mr. ROLT objected to the bill, and hoped it would
be withdrawn.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he assented to
the request made to him with regret, because the mea-
sure before the house was a good one ; but as be could
not pass it this session he would withdraw it.

PROBATES AND LETTERS OF ADMINISTRA- The hill was accordingly withdrawn.
TION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The following bide were read a second time :—lnter-
The amendments to this bill were considered and national Patent Right ; Administration of Oaths by
agreed to. Committees ; and Leases and Sales of Settled Estates
DIVORCE AND MATRIMONIAL CAUSES ACT Act Amendment Bills.
AMENDMENT BILL. The following bills were read a third time :—New
The amendments to this bill were considered and Writs : Probate and Letters of Administration Act
agreed to. Amendment ' • and Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Act
The house suspended its sittings at 3 o'cloc'c. Amendment Bills.
The house resumed at 6 o'clock. HARBOURS OF REFUGE.
CORRUPT PRACTICES BILL. Mr. WILSON, in rising to call attention to the ro
In reply to a question from Mr. CROSS, port of the Select Committee on this subject, said the
Mr. WALPOLE said he had alteady expressed his late Government bad been deeply impressed by the re-
intention to propose early next session a general measure presentations made to them respecting the deficient
on this subject, the details of which might be referred to accommodation for shipping on parts of our coast, and
a select committee, but he thought it was desirable that early in 1857 a committee had been appointed which
a distinction should be maintained between the law appli- had investigated the subject during that and a portion of
cable to Parliamentary and municipal elections, the present session. The enormous losses of life and
property which took place every year on our coast
THE WAR DEPARTMENT. would fully justify any Government in taking some de-
Colonel FRENCH asked whet her Mr. Ramsay was
still superintendent of clothing and stores in the War
Department, and retained his full salary and title. Also,
whether Mr. Webster, who was sent to Rencoi as ac- TlB4 resulted in wrectas or total loss ,and 2 944 in
are there were 5,128 casualties on our coast, of which
tided step on a matter of such importance. In five
ye
2
damages of smaller or greater degree. During the same
countant to the hospital there, but who was sent back by
period 4,148 persons lost their lives, or an average of
the doctor, there not being anything for him to do, was
830 every year. Moreover, the mere money value of
still retained at a salary of 3001. a Sear? these losses amounted to an average of 1,500,000/. per
General PEEL said that Mr. Ramsay never held the
annum. (Hear.) These two facts alone, he though',
office of superintendent of clothing and stores, but he had
should be a sufficient inducement for this house ears- i
been assistaet director of stores' and clothing. In con fully to coneirter the subject and try t ) remedy the cry- '
sequence of some changes which had recently taken
ing evils which resulted from the present condition of
place, Mr. Ramsay had for a time been removed from the
our coast. These losses were contingent to a great de-
department, but he still maintained the office of assistant- gree on the crowded state of our waters, arising from 1
director, at the same salary. With regard to Mr. Web- the great increase which had of late taken place in our
stir, be underetood that on his return ha was employed
ehipping. In 1843 the amount of tonnage of British
in examining certain accounts which were in arrest ; cleared from ports orharbours
shipping which entered or
that he was still so employed, and that whatever he oftiethrwee kingdoms was 7,180,000, and of foreign
might have had to do at R ncoi, there was work enough tonnage 2,643,000—making altogether 9,824,000 tons
in the office in which he was now engaged. of shipping. That was 15 years ago, while last year the
MEDICAL OFFICERS IN THE ARMY. amount of British tonnage wasl3 694,000, and of foreign
Mr. SEYMOUR asked the Secretary of State for 9,484,000 making a total of 23 178 000 tons. Thus the
War when the warrant augmenting the pay of the medi- increase within 15 years had been more than 130 per
cal officers of the army would be promulgated. cent., and this increase had not been caused by any suds
Gen. PEEL replied that the subject was under the den or momentary impulse ; it bad been gradual and
consideration of the Treasury, and as soon as it received steady, and even in 1857 was equal to that of any pre.
the sanction of their lordships it would be promulgated. ceding year. There Wa q , therefore, every reason to
SIR JOHN LAWRENCE. suppose that this great development would proceed at the
Mr. KINNAIRD inquired whether it was the in' en- same rapid rate as before, and if the crowded state of our
tion of her Majesty's Government to recommend to her waters now led to such enormous loss of property and lite
Majesty the conferring of some signal mark of favour on it was reasonable to expect that that loss would increase
Sir John Lawrence, in recognition of his long and die- proportionately with the increase in our trade unless
tinguished services in India, and the more so after his means were taken to afford greater facilities to shipping
successful administration of the provinces under his upon our coast. Another proof of the rapid growth of
care, and the effectual aid which, by his instrumentality, our shipping was that in 1843 the amount of tonnage
was given to the capture of Delhi. built in this country was 83,000, while last year it was
Lord STANLEY said, the house were probably aware 260,000 tons. What, then, under such circumstances was
that in November last the distinction of the Grand Cross the duty of the Government and of this house ? A a a
of the Bath was conferred upon Sir J. Lawrence, and general rule the committee over which he presided had
that he also received the thanks of Parliament in recoge confined their attention chiefly to the question of bar-
nition of his services. Since that time despatches had hours of refuge, strictly so called, and they had exa-
been sent out to India by the Board of Directors, in mined upwards of 60 witnesses, among whom were Capt.
which they desired that the salary of Sir J. Lawrence, Washington and Capt. Veit* of the Admiralty, Capt.
which was a' present 7,2001. a-year as Chief Commis. Sutherland, of the Board of Trade, professional gentle-
sioner, should be increased to the salary of a Lieutenant- men of great eminence, and local engineers and practical
Governor-10,0001, a-year. the increase to date from men who navigated our coast. The labours of the corn•
the let of January last. (Hear, hear.) The distinguished mittee, be thought, entitled their report to consider .tion
and invaluable services of Sir J. Lawrence had not been from the house, and that report was, he trusted, a fair
overlooked by her Majesty's Government, who were statement of the facts and summary of the evidence ad-
now considering whether any further reward should be dated. They found that various parts of our coast were
Ibestowed upon him. (Hear, hear.) well studded with natural harbours. The attention of the
BRITISH TROOPS IN THE WEST INDIES. committee, however, bad been concentrated upon a few
Mr. HANKEY asked the Secretary of State for the important points. The part of the coast which had come
Colonies whether it were true that orders had been sent specially under notice was that lying between Pentland
out to the West Indies, or whether transports had been Frith and the Frith of Forth in Sc tland, and in the case
taken up in this country, for the removal of the British of that line of coact they had indicated the localities with-
troops which were now remaining in those colonies. out naming the precise spot at which, as it contained no
Toe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied large natural harbours, harbours of refuge should be
that it was not the intention of her Majesty's Govern- erected. The part of the coast which had come nex under
went to remove any of the British troops in the West their consideration was that stretching from St. Abb's to
Indian colonies. Flamborough Head in Yorkshire, between' which points
ST. JAMES'S PARK, it appeared there was no secure retreat for shipping.
Mr. GRIFFITH asked the Secretary to the Trea- In that case also the committee had recommended that
entry whether, in any arrangement that might have been no precise locality should be fixed upon, but that the ad
made for the sale or lease of Berkeley-house to the Me- vantages which any portion of the coast possessed for
tropolitan Board of Works, care had been taken that the construction there of a harbour of refuge might
sufficient space was reserved out of the premises to allow form the subject of inquiry. With respect to the east
of a carriage entrance being made from Cockspur-street, coast of England the c mmittee h.d come to the con-
into the roadway surrounaing St. James's Park ? elusion that, inasmuch as it was furnished with such
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON said that he was not aware places of refuge as the Wash, the Humber, Yarmouth-
that there was any intention of constructing a carriage roads, and the Thames, it was amply well supplied in
road from Cockspur street to St. James's park, and no that particular, while the existence of the harbour
of Dover thou net ha woe read todmit
arrangement had been made on that subject with the , gh , y a, so
Metropolitan Beard of Works. The arrangements which much a harbour of refuge as of defence—of the new her-
bad been made would admit of the footpath being boar at Portland, which when finished would be one of
widened to the extent of 22 feet, and if in future it the most magnificent paces of refuge in the world, and
should be thought desirable to construct a carriage road of the natural harbours of Falmouth and Plymouth upon
into St. James's-park, it could be effected by widening the south coaat, rendered it in the eyes of the committee
inexpedient that any expenditure of public money should
Cock-pus-street on the east side, which was the pro-
perty of the Crown. be incurred in that quarter. Directing their attention,
LAND TRANSPORT CORPS. howeve -, to the line of coast which lay between the
Lerd A. V. TEMPEST asked the Secretary of State Land's-end and the Bristol Channel, the committee had
found that there was in that direction a great want e. f
for War, if the report of the committee on the Land
harbours of refuge, and had become strongly impressed
Transport Corps had come under the consideration of
with the expediency of erecting a harbour at Bristol,
her Majesty's Government; and, if so, whether her
owing to the rapid extension of the trade with New
Majesty's Government were prepared to carry out the
South Wales in iron and coal. With those exceptions,
recomtnenda.ion of the committee, and to grant the offs there was no point on the coast of Great-Britain at which
curs of the Land Transport Corps the usual rate of half
the committee had deemed it necessary that expenditure
pay cf the ranks they held at the period of the disband
should be incurred, especially when they took into ac-
tnent of the coma. count that a magnificent harbour at Holyhead was now
General PEEL begged to acquaint the noble lord
rapioly progressing towards completion. Turning to
that the report was under the consideration of the Go -
Ireland, they had ascertained that there were three
vernmert. If its recommendations were adopted, it
points at which it was desirable that something eh )old
would itivolve an expenditure which had not been pro-
be done with the view of affording greater etcuri y to
'sided for iu his estimate, anti which it would theref re
shipping. One of these was Carlingford- bay, which
be necessary to submit to the Treasnrey for their ap•
simply required that a large sandbank at its entrance
prove.l, but he might add that ho was the last person to
should be removed, in order to render it capable of ad-
keep any class of men out of that to which they were
nutting the largest class of vessels. Then there was
entitled. Waterford-bay, to which a precisely similar obtervation
Lord A. V. TEMPEST said that if the matter were
applied ; and lastly, Portrush, on the north coast of Ire-
not satisfactorily settled by next session, he should move
land, which, by means of natural rocks called the &der-
an address to the Crown on the subject.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL. rice, formed an almost natural harbour, bat which,
Mr. WALPOLE moved that the order cf the day for owing to the fact that the interstices between those
rocks, did not admit a sufficient amount of water to
considering this bill in committee to-morrow at the
float large veesels, would require that a sum of about,
early sitting should be discharged. (Hear, hear.) The 100.000/. should be leid out upon it before it could be
bill had been so much discussed, and so many objections
had been taken to its principal clauses, that at this late made thoroughly available as a harbour of refuge. Those
period of the session he did not think he could usefully to which he had adverted were the only points along the
press its consideration on the attention of the house. coasts of these islands which the committee had recona
Mr. INGRAM regretted that any aecessity existed mended as the sites of puttlic works ; but in making
for withdrawing the meature. that etaaernent he was by no means pre tette d to contend
Ater a few words from Mr. Flom= and :Nita that the commission which was about to he appointed
migh-, not extend beyond them the scope of its inquiry.
KNATCIEIBULL-EIIIGESSEN,
Lord A. V. 'FE lIPEST expressed a hope that the He was at the saute time of opinion that the Govern-
Government would next session exert themselves to meat shoal be extremely careful wi,h respect to allow-
carry a similar measure to that which he now learned ing an extension of the limits of the inquiry, because the
with regret they were about to withdraw. result might be that tbe whole question would again be
Mr. WALPOLE said that he would do the best he raised, aid that works of urgent importance would not
could. in the meantime be constructed. with that expedition
UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL. which was desirable. (Hear.) He had stated that the
The order of the day for considering the Lords' probable cost of the proposed works would be two mil-
amendments having been read, lions and a half, which was the subtraction of so much
Mr. DUNLOP moved teat the house disagree with from the aggregate capital of the country, while the lo„
the Lords' amendment, which omitted the 3rd clause, of life amounted annually to 800 ptrsone. The evil
w
The clause bad been carried against the Government in which the house was called upon to remedy was not one
of a merely speculative character, but one which either
that house by a considerable majority, and the omission
lof the clause by the other House of Parliament he had as involving considerations of humanity, or of pounds,
; not seen justified by any sound or reasonable arguments. shillings, and pence, demanded the most serious atten-
Mr. BLACKBURN said be thought that the bon. tion. Of-the expenditure which it would be necessary
to incur in order to obviate that evil it had been cog-
thismember for Greenock was not well advised iu raisin, Bested that the shipping interest ought to bear a pertion.
question. There was not one word in the bill In that view be had concurred, because he thought the
which prescribed the oaths to be taken by the principals, - advocates of the establishment of harbours of refrog-
or the duties they would have to perform. That was would come to that house with a better chance of success
entirely left to the university commission, of which the if they could state that tbe classes more immediately in-
hon. gentleman himself was a member. That commis- terested in the question were prepared to contribute to
sion would have the matter entirely under its control,
the. attainment of the object which they sought to ac-
and he was afraid that by raising tots question, the hon.
complish. There were others, he was aware, who held a
gentleman ran great risk of losing a measure which
contrary opinion, and he, for one, should offer no oppm
would, in other respects, be a most valuable one. (Hear.)
by ' sition to the payment of the whole of the expenditure
Mr. EWING said he hoped the house,its vote, out of the public money, should that course be deemed
would defeat the attempt to fetter and restrict the' the one which it was most expedient to adopt, (Hear )
choice of the universities.. (Hear, hear.) He did not, however, think that it would be wise to
Lord ELCHO said that, having taken some part in
discuss that question at present, deeming it more advis-
the discussion of the act of 1853, he was bound to say able that it should be left for the future consideration of
that the bill was looked upon in the light of a compro- the Govedrnment. Thhaed inexhaustiblebeenh resources of our
wise, which was not in future to be disturbed. By that
the professional chairs were thrown open with the torraedaseeaonf commerceoure x by the immense in-
allorts, but our shoressawa werelt limited in ex-
exception of the principal's chair. As far as he could tent and our ports limi.ed in number was, therefore,
see his way at that moment, be thought it was unwise our duty to provide as much accommodation and security
to re-open the question, and be should therefore feel in- for the ships which frequented ourforships coasts as ingenuity
thanked the Government
dined to vote against the motion of the hon. member, and capital could provide.
Mr. WALPOLE concurred in the view taken by the for the readiness withwhich they had met his proposal
noble' lord as to the effect of the act of 1853, by which for the appointment of a commission, and hoped that
an alteration was made in the tests to be taken on ad- its labours would result to the advantage of the
mission to the professional chairs in Scotland. The ' country. (Hear, bear.) The bon gentleman concluded
change then made was, in fact, a compromise by which
by moving for address for
ththe appointment of a Royal
En the terms recona ,it was settled that the principal should continue to be a Commission
orderinno
to the inquiry
member of the Church of Scotland while the other chairs mended in the report of the Select n
Committee upon
were thrown open. Upon one p tint referred to by the Harbours of Refuge.
Mr: LINDSAY seconded the motion and observed
hon. member for Greenock, he did not like to place his
thathehiandionever read arep.ort which contained more
opinion against that of the hon. member, but if he was
valuable • . rmation. He rejoiced that the Government
rightly informed, the principals of two of the universities
at this moment were the theological teachers. For his
assented to the appointment of the commission, but
own part, he frankly confessed that he saw no great
harm or difficulty that could arise from having a laymite hed that the inquiries of the commissioners would be
in the office of principal—(hear) —but on the other hand, limited to the evidence that was adduced before the corn-
when a settlement of the question had been effected in mittee, otherwise there would be a constant competition
1853, he thought it was undesirable to disturb that of corporations ,as to the best sites for harbcurs of re-
eettlemeht, and he should therefore vote against the fuge. He recommended that the commissioners should
have a steamer placed at their disposal, a competent and
motion.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, as Secretary of State for unprejudiced engineer, that they should be furnished
the Home Department of the Government of Sir R. with the report of the select committee, with the evi-
Peel in 1846, it became his duty to resist the repeal of dente given before it, and all other necessary documents,
theca tests altogether. He did his duty to the best of
and thus it was provided, that they should visit the va-
his ability, and bad such men as Lori Macaulay and Mr. I rious plan s indicated in that evidence, and if necessary,
,
Ruteerford to contend against. He was bound to add, itake any additioealnvidence up: n the spot, the capabili-
that his arguments did not prevail—(a laugh)—and the ties of which they could examine for themselves. The
consequence was the compromise of 1853 e which, was report pointed nut that the main difficulty was the ques-
tion
Lt.; i.:lng at tho tion of how the means were to be raised, and he was glad
carried when he was in the Government of Lerd Aber-
,,hoi„ q„stio,, he di!! not F,, to 6 ,:t tb•“ ;It -> 1ic.1,. ;,..i.t.tti it-,tna (Mr. Vt7'l,tto) did not
,:
upon what greunds tney could any longer maintain that object to the expense being defrayed from the Consoli-
theseated Fund. It was quite certain that there could he no
d
tests should be applied to principals alone. He ;
thought the bill as sent up to the Lords was a right and recurrence to passing tolls, which had been all but