The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-27 00:00:00

1 IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS. —(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
THE RANELAGII SEWER.
Viscount TORRINGTON said be had received
a letter from the engineer of the Metropelitan Board of
Works with reference to the returns he had moved
for in connection with the Ranelagh Sewer. The letter
informed him that the returns had already been printed
by order of the house. He had• answered that letter,
stating that the returns already printed did not contain
the information required. Until he received a reply to
that answer, he ehonld abslain from any remarks on the
subject.
THE LATE MR. TURNER'S PICTURES.
Lord ST. LEONA.R DS asked whether there was any
intention on the part of t`te Government to build a gal-
lery annexed to the National Gallery, to be called the
Turner Gallery ; and whether they intended to transfer
the pictures now at Hampton Court to the National
Gallery
Tbe Earl t f DERBY said he entirely agreed with his
noble and learned friend that it would be a great mis-
take to transfer the pictures from Hampton-court to the
National Ga lery. It was, undoubtedly, the intentien
of the Government to take steps to provide additional
accommodation f tt e various treasures of art
presented to the country as soon as they were re-
lieved from the pressure of Parliamentary business. He
t t,
the
was fully seneiblo of the value of the Turner Collection,
artei
ration.
PRIVATE hwehtakenc h
mtro.
andgive
Turneri nfull h
made
iffee newch ti
as
rrangements
thebequest
conditionsra
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
On the motion of Lord REDESDALE the Warrington
and Stockport Railway (capital), aid the Clyde N • aviga-
lion Bill, were read a third time and passed.
ATLANTIC TELEGRAPH BILL.
The third readieg of this bill having been moved by
the Earl of DERBY,
Lord REDEIDALE and Lord STANLEY of ALDERLET
offered some of jection, on the ground that the original
agreement had not been carried out as was intended by
Parliament.
The third reading was negatived without a division.
CORNWALL SUBMARINE MINES BILL.
The standing orders, after some discussion, were sus-
pended, in order that this bill, which was to settle the
rights of the Crown with respect to certain minerals
in Corn wall, between high and low water marks, might
be read a second time.
THE RIGHT OF SEARCH.
Lord LYND auftsr, in rising to put the question
of which he had given notice to the Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs with respect to the right of visit,
said,—Your lordships, no doubt, may most of you have
read a speech which was made by Mr. Dallas, the Ame-
ricau Minister, a short time since, at a meeting of his
fellow- ,übjecls to celebrate the anniversary of American
independence. On that occasion the hon. gentleman
stated that the question of the right of visiting American
vessels in time of peace on the high seas had' heei finally
settled. This is a subject, my lords, of so much import-
ance a:.d such deep interest that it is material thet wo
should receive a clatieet and precise account of the terms
on which t'iat settlement is based ; and I have therefore
given notice of a question which I intend to prop ise to
my not.le friend the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, in order that he may give us some exalanation
on the subject to which I have referred. Many persons
—perhaps I ougU not to say " many persons," but se-
veral persons, teed those in a high political position—
appear to think that Veat proceeding was not justified,
acid that in point cf face we have eurrendcreq a incat
valuable and iaiportant right. The ace vet' which I inake
to that is that we have surrendered no right, f irthat, in
point of fact, no such right as that which he conteuiled
for has ever exited. We have abandoned the assump-
tion of a right, nod in doing so we have, I this k, act, d
j istly, pruderoly, and nicely. (Hear, hear ) N.,w, my
lords, with your permission, I eteall pre seed t make a
few observa bins upon the general qneitior; and to refer
to some authorities on the euliect ; t us I •aesure you
that I 5h0.,11 not have troubled you were it riot that I
think it is of great importance that this question elieniii
ho distinctly and finally mideretood and settled The first
propositim wbich I stain is this :—Tnat in ro writer
on international law has that rig! t ever been ass. red ;
and, in the next piece, that there is no decision of any
c-curt of justice having juriediction to decide such
questions in a hich that right Las been admitted. I
wish in making this asser ion to fortify myself by
some authorities ; and I cannot qusts as higher it
a better authority than that of the English judge
Lord Stowell, who s,atos distinctly, in the words which
I nue about to read—in' confurwi y with what I Lace
,toted—that no such right has ev.r been asserted by any
competent authority. His words are these—
" I can find no 'authority that gives the right Of inter-
ruption to the ravigatien of States in amity upon the high
sees excepting that which the rights of war give to both
belligerents against neutrals."
This is a distinct statement made by that noble lore, in
addition to which I beg leave to refer to the authority
of Wheaton, who states the proposition in these terms—
" It is impossible to show a single passage in any insti-
tutional writer on public law, or the judgment of any
court by which that law is administered, which will jet'-
tify the exercise of such a right on the high seas in time of
peace, independent of special compact."
So that your lerieliipe perceive that both on this side of
the water and iu America, by the best authorities and
by the highest jurists, that right, in the peesagee to
which I have referred, is controverted instead of bei- g
:daeitted. (H.,ar.) It has beer. agitated long between
this country on the one side and America on the other.
Tile eminent jariet on the other side of the water makes
his etwetnent and assertion ; tour correepondieg suttee -
rity on this side of the water makes bis assertion—and
those assertions directly and distinctly agree. For ma-
self, my I rds, I have never been able to discover any
principle of law or reason on which that right conld be
supported. I will refer nein to the same high English
au' hority—Lord Stowell—upon this subject, and y 4 u
shall hear what he emphatically states with respect to it.
Teat distinguished jurist says—
" No nation can exercise the right of visitation and.
search on the high seas except on thu belligerent
No such right has ever been claimed nor can it be exer-
cised, without the oppression of interrupting and harass-
ing the real and lawful navigation of other countries, for '
the right when it exists at all is universal and will extend
to all countries. If I were to press the consideration fur-
ther it would bs by stating the gigantic mischiefs which
such a claim is likely to produce."
I may add that another very high authority— he Arne•
riean Judge Storey—in a well known case expressed
the same opinion in almost the same terms and in lan
gunge as emphatic. So here again is a coincidence of
I authority between the two parties agitating the gni-anion
--the authority on this side of the water cerreepani ing
ex icily with the authority on the o her. But I do not
think it necessary to refer to any ewes in support of the
question I am considering ; I will refer only to the
principle on which the question rests. What is the rule
with respect to the high seas and to the navigati in n f
the high seas ? All rations are equal upon the high
seas. Whether they Le wrong and powerful or weak and
imbec le, all are on a looting of perfect equality. What
is the position of a niercbant ship on the high seas ?
to she
ship is part of the dominion of the country w. •
one nation to tn-
belongs, and what tight has the ship of .
other natter where the
tell: re with the ship of sty ,
righte of both are eve! ? The principle is so clear and
so distinct that there can be no doubt about it. I am
unwilling on is qoestion of this kind to refer to any ar-
guments of my o en, cr to any authority which I can
possess on the subject ; but hear what is said by Lord
S owell with respect to the navigation of the high seas.
His language is this
All nations being equal have an equal right to the un-
interrupted Use of the unappropriated parts of the ocean
for their navigation. Ire places where no local authority
exists, where the subjects of all States meet on a footing of
entire equality and independence, no one State or any of
its subjects has a right to assume or exercise authority
over the subjects of another."
That is a confirmation of the doctrine which I have
stated, that the principle on which this question is to
be decided is the equality of all nations on the high
seas. Admitting this principle how can it be asserted
that the ships of one nation can interfere in any way
with the vessels of another Then, having laid this
down, the consideraaion next occurs that difficulties
may arise out of frauds which may be prat) hod on the
high seas, and it is said that the flag of America may
for fraudulent purposes be assumed by another Po war.
But bow can the acts f a third Power, or of the subjects
of a third Power, by poesibilty affect any right existing
on the part of the United States Take this case :---By
our treaty with Spain we have a right to visit and search
Spanish vessels with a view to prevent the slave trade.
But how can that agreement between us and Spain by
any possibility affect the rights of America? Clearly in
no way at a 11. But then what arc our cruisers to do I
They are placed in a most difficult position, because it is
quite clear and plain, if one of our cruisers see a tie ssel
hearing the American flag, and have reason to believe
that that fi g is assumed, he nits-. examine and it quire
into her right to carry that flag as best he can. It the
result should be to give biro a strong suspicion:that the
vessel bas no right to the flag she beire, he may visit
and have an examination of her papers, and if he then
find that his suspicions are correct he may deal with her
. its the manner in which be would be justified in dealing
with her as between. England and the country to which
she belongs. The American Government has ao right to
interfere in this ease. The matter is entirely, between
the English cruiser and the vessel seized. But, if d as
should turn out that the vessel is an American, an
stb of
a right to use the flag the situation is this—he
course apologise for his act?, and make sienspelessoocy
I
cation for any injury done. (Hear.) Tbat i laced.
Tthehe
position in which the two countries
a. aretb tlii
P states the
American Minister for Foreign • __ a
ie police ma-
else of the Unite i States. Fie Yea
-orneer to seize a par-
gistrate gives a warrant to a police
bedoes not Lulls the per-
ticular person; the officer, if be
he ventures to execute
son, will make inquiries Beforee
result of his inquiries sae
the war rant, and ehould,at
of the individual he •
him to the kdontitt,will
tisfy as
execute the warrant. If his information turn out cor-
rect his proceedingsa
are correct also ; but if it turn out
that mistake and arrested the wrong
tuan be must make ample compensation for the injury
which he has done. The two cases seem to -me to be
perfectly. analogous. A distinction has been attempted
to be drawn—for which I think there is no foundation
__between the right of visit and the right of search.
Visit and search are two separate march in our vocabu-
lary of international law, but they express what is con-
veyed by a tingle term in foreign vocabularies "le droit
de visit ,e ' What is the ire of visiting U you cap do no.
thing! How can a mere /hit convey the information

which you desire to obtain ; and the moment you ask
for an examination of the papers, the moment you ask a
single question the visit becomes a search—in other
words you are xsrcising the droid de visite. But sup-
• pose a party visits only in the strict sense of the word—
what right, I ask, has any person to go on board a ves-
sel to visit it without the consent cf the master 2 The
Same principle applies that I have just laid down.
Treaties have been entered into with toreign countries
giving the right of visit ; but why enter into such
trearies if the right of %i-icing is a eationalright founded
on internati ,nat law. W i
What took place n the year
1315 after the Tree' yof Vienna! Lord Castlereagh ap-
plied to the French Government to establish some system
by which cruisers o uld visit the vessels of either country,
but the Duo de Richelieu replied,
.that France never
would consent to a maritime police being established over
her own subjects except by persons beto nging to her own
country. I think I have gone fer enough to establish
the poeition with which I started—that there is, in truth,
no such thing as the right of visit. Whatever arrange.
ment may have been made with the American Govern-
ment, we have renounced no right that we ever pea-
raised. It would be material, if possible, to adopt sem°
plan by mutual understanding for verifying the fl
alear,hear.) lam told tnat some negotiation and some
correspondence is going OR for that end. It is a difficult
question, and I hope it may be brought to a favourable
termination. I cenclude with what 1 stated at the be•
ginning, that the G .verathent were wise, prudent, and
net in the course which they have pursued. To pro-
secute a claim which you cannot enforce consietertly
well law, or to make an attempt to enforce it which
must lead to resistance, and which may afterwards
lead to war, would b 3 a most unwise and impru-
dent mode of prooeecneg. kilear, hear.) No war is so
deplorable as a war fetiede I on injustice. Before siting
down I moat, in justice to the hon. gentleman to whose
statement I referred before, read to your lordships the
concludicg words of his speech, because it is in complete
accordance with the high character which he has always
b rae both in America and in this country, where he
acts as her representative. The hon. gentleman said :
" While I am able to announce to you this. gratifying
fact, I think it. should be accompanied also by the assur-
ance that the termination of that for which we have
strugged for nearly half a century has been brought about
with a degree of honourable candour and fair dealing on
the part of the British Government deserving of every
acknowledgment on our part."
That statement is in perfect unison with the excellent
el aranter of the honourable gentleman to whom I have
referred. (Hear, hear.) My lords, I thought it my
duty to make these observations, and to bring this Matter
clearly before you, accompanied by the quotations
which I have read—with which, no doubt, many of your
lord hips are perfectly familiar—in order to afford an
opportunity to any noble lord to refute the position,
which I have laid down if they are c,pable of refu ation.
The question which I wish to put to the Foreign
Secretary is this,—whether he is prepared to lay on
the table of the hou e the correspondence with the
American Government with respect to the right of visi-

It ation
The Earl of MALMESISURY—I am very glad, my
lords, that my noble and learned friend hae made an ep-
portunity—it I may so say—for giving us his opinion on
this very important matter. (Hear, hear.) That opinion
must be of immense importance in Europe and America.
I must say that it must finally settle this dispute, and,
if it be ever again mooted, my noble and learned friend's
opinion will be quoted, as he himself has quoted the
opinion of his great predecessor, Lord Stowell. It is a
pleasure to me to hear that he concurs entirely in the
opinion of the law officers of the Crown, which we took
before replying to the note of General Case. They as-
serted unanimously that the international law was
exactly as it has been described by my noble and learned
friend. Upon that opinion her Majesty's Government
acted, and at once frankly confessed that, having no title
to make the assumption which had hitherto been made to
a general right of visit and search, they abandoned bath
those claims. At the same time we placed before the
American Government the paramount necessity of draw-
ing up some instructions perfectly identical in character,
which might be placed in the hands of the naval officers
of the two countries, and, if possible, of all maritime
nations, so that, all acting in the same manner, commerce
may no longer be obstructed, and we may never again
run the risks of those quarrels which have been caused
by former assertions of a greater right. Negotiations
have gone as far as this—that we have given up the as
sumption which we have so long made to a right of visit
and search ; and the American Government, on the
other band, have stated that they are ready to listen and
consider any suggestions which we may make with a
view to the verification of the lag. We have made the
same suggestion to the Government of France ; and that
G ivernment, appreciating the great importance of the
epiestion, have agreed to consider any proposition that
we may make, and on their part to suggest any proposi-
tion which may appear likely to be of service. But
there can be no doubt that, although we all agree that
the dignity of our several nations would be compromised
by allowing a right of visit and search, it is inevitably
necessary that some security shon!d be taken against a
fraudulent use of the national flsg. (Hear) Further
than that negotiations have not proceeded, and although
it is not usual to produce papers under these circum-
et ances, yet h r Majesty's Government have no objection
to place on yourlordships' table the correspondence which
has taken place as far as it goes. Your 1 irdships will un-
deretand that it goe3 no fur-her than that we have aban-
doned the right of search and visit, and that the Ameri-
can Government have agreed to entertain and consider
in a fair ep rit any suggestions we may make in order
to obtain soreie security against the fraudulent
adoption of the American lag. The French Govern-
ment have also been communicated with, and they are
ready and even aezions, to assist ns in attaining that
otjsct. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, —lt has happened to
me, when former'y at the Foreign-office, to have to write
a great many despatches upon this subject, more I hope
than will ever fall to the I of the noble earl (Earl of
Malmesbury). But the correspondence which then took
place left the question completely settled, and, there-
fore, it was with great astonishment I heard of anything
which could give rise t complaint on the part of the
American Government. It was in the years 1842 and
1843 that a long correspondence took place between
the American Minister and myself, and Mr. Webster
declared over and over again to the late Lird Ashbur-
ton that the mater was perfectly and satisfactorily
settled. The noble earl talks of referring to the law
officers of the Cream as if it were a new question. The
instructions under which our officers acted, and I sup
pose they are the same instructions now, were drawn
op under the supervision of Dr. Lushington, Sir G.
Cockburn, and the Admiralty. They were communicated
to Mr. Everett, the American Minister, and I never
heard a word intimated egeiust them. I was astonished
to hear my noble and learned friend (Lord Lyedhurst)
quota toe statement of the highly ra pected American
Minister who is now in this coun`ry, to the effect that
we had given up frankly and fivally the right of visit
and search. Te'erety years age we repudiated the aeserien
of any such right, and ih,rtfere what the noble earl the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs can have given up
I am at a loss to understand. Any such right was given
up then as frankly and finally as it possibly can Le given
up at this moment. After my noble and learned kind's
costing the high authority of Lord Stowell, it may ap-
pear ludicrous in me to quote myself. At the same time,
in crd'.r to show how. the matter stood, I will just quo e
a note of my own. Though an bumble antbority, still I
wet speaking the language of the British Government,
aid that language was received bylaw American Govern-
ment with acquiescence and satisfaction. My words

were these :
"The undersigned resigns all pretensions on the part
el the British Government to visit and search American
vessels in time of peace ; nor is it as American vessels that
ouch vesselsare ever visited. But it has been the invariable
practice of the British nary, and the undersigned believes
of all navies in the world, to ascertain by visit the rtal
nationality of merctaaot vessels met on the high seas, it
there were good reason to apprehend their illegal cha-
ter. In certain latitudes, and for particular 0- jects,
vessels are visited not as American, but either as British
vessels engaged in an unlawful traffic and assuming the
American flag for criminal purposes, or as belonging to
States which have by treaty conceded to Great Britain
the right of search, and which right itis at tempted to
defeat by fraudulently bearing protective flag of the
Union ; or, finally, they are visited as piratical Dula we
having not the least title to any flag or any nationality
whatever."
-Minder those three categories we have exercised the
right to visit vessels so acoected. Bat if our officers
knew that an Anaerioan ye set was full of slaves, they
would have no right whatever to visit or arrest her
unless they had good ground to suspect that she was not
an American vessel. No doubt the flag is prima fade
evidence of nationality ; but the flag alone is not suffi-
cient evidence, and is not sufficient to outweigh informs.
tion to the contrary received from any quarter, or any
other grounds of reasonable suspicion. No doubt our
cruisers may commit a mistake and overhaul an Ameri-
can vessel, believing her to be a Spaniard or a pirate.
But it has been found over and over again that instant
and ample reparation has been offered for such an inve.
lantary et ror, and that is all that cars be expected be-
tween two nations acting in good faith with each other.
I saw,
some time ar, an extract from a despatch of
General Cass, which appeared to Ine to state the case
with perfect fairness—(bear, bear)—and they are the
very words which I used myself. As I have said
already, I have written more ppon this subject than. I
hope it will ever be necessary for the noble earl to write,
' and the result of that writing has been perfect content
sod tear quittity for 16 or 18 years until this year, when
we hear tor the first time of British outrages. I believe
it has arisen from the zeal of our cruisers. The addition

of a squadron on the coast of C3l3a,TM:tead of operations
being confined to the coast of Africa, has led to a more
fregneitt Exercise of the r;gl3t of and I am
the -z-!al of our cruistra has converted into n
rule that which was only intended to be an exception•
`Without any ground of suspicion, the American flag is