The Sun.
London, England, 1867-03-19 00:00:00

FLOGGING IN THE ARMY.

Sir J. PANANGTON said the Government could not
consider the vote come to tho other evening with respect
to the abolition of this punishment in the army as con-
clusive, and therefore the usual clause would be intro-
duced in the Mutiny Act. The motion could, therefore,
be again raised bymoving that the clause be struck out of
the bill. . •

THE. REFORM BILL.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose at 20
niinutes to 5 o'clock. The right hOn. gentleman, 'tVlinteas
received with ra-thAembdued cheers from the .4.l4niSterial
benches, said,l.r*, sir,. to ask for leave to introduce a
bill further to amend the laws for regulating the principles
of the representation of the peoplein Parliament. Sir, the
principles of political representation, and especially as ap-
plied to the circumstances of this country, have been of late
years so profoundly and extensively discussed and inves-
tigated, that it is really not necessary on this occasion that
I should advert to them. (Hear, hear.) I propose, there-
fore, to confine my observations to two points. I will en-
deavour, first, to convoy clearly to the house the object of
the Government in the bill I am asking leavnto introduce;
and-secondly, I will detail the means by which, in their
opinion, that purpose can be accomplished. It will be for
the houseto consider whether that object is desirable, and
then, if desirable, whether the means we propose are ade-
quate. That is the issue. Therefore, in the first place, I
will say that our object is not only to maintain but to
strengthen the characterand functions of this house. They
are peculiar in any popular assembly. Perhaps they are
not only rare, but unexampled in any other representative
system. The House of Commons• has combined national
representation with the duties of a senate. That peculiar
union has, in our opinion, been owing to the variety of the
elements of which it is formed. That variety of character
has given it its deliberative powers, and it owes to its deli-
berative power its general authority. Sir, we wish not only
to maintain but to strengthen that character ; and we be-
lieve that in the present age, and under the existing cir-
cumstances of the country, the best way to maintain and
to strengthen that character and those functionsis to estab-
lish them on a broad, popular basis. (Hear, hear.) I know
there are some in whom the epithet may create a feeling of
distrust; but, sir, I attribute that sentiment of alarm which
is connected with that word rather to a misapprehension
of -its meaning and to a perplexity of ideas, which too
often confound popular privileges with democratic rights.
They are not the same; they are not similar. More than
that, they are contrary. (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.)
Popular privileges are consistent with a state of society in
which there is great inequality of condition. Democratic
rights, on the contrary, demand that there shall be equality
of condition as the fundamental basis of that society which
they found and create. Sir, I ant apt to believe this a
distinction which ought to be borne in mind by the house
in considering the propositions and provisions of the bill
I am asking leave to introduce. If this measure be a pro-
posal that her Majesty shall be able to concede to her sub-
jects, with the advice and concurrence of her Parliament,
a large measure of popular privileges, then there may he;
many provisions in this bill which may appear prudent,
wise, and essentially constitutional. But if, on the other
hand, it is looked upon as a bill to confer democratic rights,
then I admit much that may be proposed may be looked
upon as indefensible and unjust. But, sir, we' do not' live
under a democracy., I trust it will never bathe fate of this
country to live under a democracy. (Conservative cheerse) -
Certainly the prepositions I am going to make to-night.
have no tendency in that direction. (Laughter.) Generally
speaking, I would say that, looking-at what haS occurred
since the Reform Act of 1832—looking at-the increase of
population, at 'the spread of industry, at the spread of
knowledge, and at: the ingenuity which has generally pre-
vailed in the arts of this country, we aro of opinion that
numbers and thoughts end feelings have been created since
that time which it is desirable should be admitted within
the circle of the constitution, and we wish that admis-
sion should take place in the spirit of our existing in-
stitutions and with deference to the provisions of our
ancient line. (ilear, hear.) Sir, in considering the
question of the distribution of power in the State, which
is really the one before us, I would at first call the at-
tention of the house to that portion which is perhaps
the most important, certainly the most interesting—that
is, the possession of the clectorial franchise ; and I would
ask tha consideration of hon. members in the first instance
to that part which has most engaged attention of late years,
and which may • be fairly described as that which most
commands the interest and attention of the public at pre-
sent—that is, the franchise which should prevail in
boroughs. I would at once ask the house to consider
the principles upon which the occupation franchise ought
to rest, and upon what principles it is expedient to found
it. Now, sir, in 1832, the borough franchise was founded
upon the principle of value. Those who 'Jived in £lO
houses—tbose who paid £lO for the house in which they
lived—subject to certain 'regulations as regarded rates and
residence, had the borough frauchiso conferred upon
them. Sir, I. believe that franchise might fairly
be considered as having been an efficient and
satisfactory franchise, and that in its generation
it operated to the advantage of the country. My opinion is,
and has always been from the commencement, that the
seed sown in the arrangement of the borough franchise
would in the course of time lead to some disturbance. That
may be a question of controversy—it is a question of con-
troversy, and I will not indulge in any controversy.
Nevertheless, it is an historical fact that 20 years, and only
20 years, after the passing of the great measure of 1832,
the principal, or at least one of the principal, authors of
that measure announced in this house that the arrange-
ments with respect to boroughs were no longer satisfac-
tory, and called upon the house to consider a new arrange-
ment, which might bring about a more general assent. It
is a fact which cannot be denied. The proposition which
was then made by the statesman who individually had
taken the most prominent part in the ;Act of 1832 in this
house—the proposition which he made to allay the dis-
content, and to meet the requirements of the time—was a
diminution of the value on which that franchise was esta-
blished. That pictexeSition was received with no satisfac-
tion ; and from o_4 time jantil the presevt—now, I think;-•
some 15 years - the subject has more or lessengaged public
• attention, and haffl been considered by public men, .who
have proposed various schemes for the solution of the diffi-
cult queStibu. All have been unsatisfactory, all have been
unsucessful, and all have been distinguished by the one
characteristic that the only remedy which they proposed
was the diminution in some form or in some degree of the
principle of value upon which the franchise was at that
time held. The house will easily call to its recollection the
numerous combinations and figures which have been sub-
mitted to Parliament. Rating and rental, £7 in every
form, £6, and now we hear of other figures—but no pro-
position has given any satisfaction, because the country,
and the house, reflecting the feeling of the cour.try, have
only recognised that changes were proposed, but that set-
tlement was not insured.- (Cheers and counter cheers.)
Now, sir, last year a bill was brought forward with the
same object as the one which I am to propose to-night,
namely, to amend the laws with regard to the representa
tion of the people in Parliament. !That measure avowedly
was not founded upon principle. (Murmurs.) It was
avowedly fonnded, as I understood, upon expediency. The
right hon. gentleman who so powerfully and eloquently
brought the question befdre the house, if I understood the
course of his argument,- laid down as a principle that it
was necessary there should be an admission of the work-
ing classes into the constituencies, and, at a certain figure
which he fixed, ho calculated a certain number would be
admitted, and at another he fixed upon a different number,
which he thought would be excessive, would be admitted,
and therefore ho considered the first figure sufficient. I
mean no offence to the right hon. gentleman, but the ar-
rangement which lie esteemed a proper arrangement has
not been an expedient arrangement. The house knows
what took place during the long discussions last year.
(Ironical cheers and counter cheers long continued.) The
house knows—and, as I infer from that cheer, the house
recognises—the truth of what I say. (A laugh.) On both
sides there was a very general feeling that the propositions
made by the Government afforded no prospect of a settle-
ment. (Cheers.) I believe there will be no question of that,
and a very considerable period of time was employed in an
unsatisfactory manner, until at last the house took the mat-
ter in its own hands - (oh,' oh)—and in a debate, followed
by one of the largest divisions that ever took place, the
House of Commons then did, with regard to the borough
franchise, assert a principle, and it was carried by a majo-
rity. That principle was that the borough franchise should
be founded upon rating. (Cheers and counter cheers.) Hon.
gentlemen seem to agree that that statement is fair and

ample. No one doubts for a moment, the Government did
not doubt, the importance of that decision.- That was a de-
cision entirely opposed to the whole policy which the Go-
verument during that session had recommended. Of course
had they not acknowledged the importance of that deter-
mination, they would not have retired from the possession
of power. But they felt that that decision of the House of
Commons, arrived at in a very full house, was one entirely
opposed to the whole policy which during that session they
had advocated. I do not say that every gentleman on'
either side of the house-and gentlemen on both sides of
the house largely contributed to the majority-I do not say
that every gentleman iu a division which numbered, I be-
lievetabove 600 members, had thoroughly investigated and
pursued to its last consequences all that must result feorn
the assertion and adoption of that principle. But:There
happeneti, chat ha ppens, in all popular assemblies, a great
and hop irtaut decision was arrived at by the unerring
instinct of the House of Commons. (Oh, laughter, and
Ministerial cheers.) They felt that, for fifteen years, this
qitestiounf the borough flauchise had trot been treeted
in a satisfactory manner by any who bad attempted to
deal with it, and that the time had come when some
principle ought to be laid down for the guidance of those
who might have to offer propasitious to the letuie on the
subject; and they did that in a distinct and decided
manner. Now, sir, I take it fur granted that if ever there
was a decision of the House of Commons which was not a
trifling, decision, but a decision which Meant something, it
was that decision which decided the fate of a Ministry,
and which the Ministry of the day understood to mean
something ; and if anything has added to the character
and reality of this house of late years, it was the vote at
which the house arrived on that occasion. I assume and
cannot.doubt that the house meant by the vote which they
arrived at on that occasion title-that a person who `was
entrusted with a vote to elect members of Parliament
Should be ono who for the regularity-of his` life and the
general trustworthiness of his conduct some qualifications
and security should be given, and they thought theta man
who was rated to the relief of the poor, and who paid his
rates, gave that fair assurance which the State had a right
to require. - (Hear.) I take it that the house meant this, if
you are going to invest men with the exercise of public
rights let us accompany that great trust with with the'ex-
eicise'ef public duties.- (Hear.) They said that, in their
opinion, being rated to the poor: and paying the rates,
was ti fair assurance that the man who' performed this
office was one who for the regularity of whose life and the
general trustworthiness of whose conduct there was a pro-
per guarantee. That was a principle they thought ought
not to be lost sight of, but ought to be a sine qua non in the
settlement of the borough franchise-In having to consider
this question we accept to guide us that, decision of the
house, upon which we have placed what "we believe to be
the real interpretation. We believe that the House of Com-
mons has resolved and wishes that the borough- suffrage
shall be bound up and united with the duty of paying,rates
to the maintenance of the poor, and paying them really.
-That rating franchise is what the house intended by
the resolution, Well, sir, having accepted the decision
of the house with that interpretation to guide us, we
had to consider how far we could unite that
with the principle of value which hitherto ' had
been and which still is the law of the country with re-
gard to this franchise, and which almost, without an ex-
ception, has been adopted by Parliament in all its discus-
sions upon the question during the last fifteen years. Well,
sir, but lin.. this attempt the result was not satisfactory.
The moment we accepted the real, genuine, and authentic
principle of rating to guide us, we found disturbiug
meats which promised no prospect of solution, and which
gave no chance of permanent settlement, and therefore
under these circumstances the course of consideration we
proposed to ourselves was to examine the whole question
'of occupation in boroughs, and to see what would be the
effect of the application of the principle of genuine rating
without reference to value. Now, let me call the attention
of the house to these figures, which I take from a return
which will be immediately in the hands of members, but
in a much more detailed form than that which I now hold
before me. There are in the boroughs of England and
Wales 1,367,000 male householders, of which there are at
present qualified 644,000. There would remain therefore
unqualified to vote 723,000. Now, in dealing with these
723,000 and applying the principle which we are for the
moment considering, of a franchise founded upon being
rated to the poor and paying the rates, we find that out of
these 723,000, now under the existing law disqualified, or
rather not qualified for voting, we should have at once to
take away 237,000; that is to say, that beneath the £lO line
which now prevails there are 237,000 persons who are
rated to the poor and who pay their rates, and who
if the law were altered so that value was not an element
of it, would then be qualified to vote for members of Par-
liament. Now, if we adi these 237,000 poisons who are
rated to the poor and pay their rates to the 614,000 who
are at present qu dolled, you will find then 881,000 per-
sons who would then fulfil these conditions; that is to
sa y,' almost exactly two-thirds of the whole of the' house-
holders in the boroughs of England and Wales. There
would then still remain 486,200 householders, who
would -not be qualified under alms° circumstances
because. they du not pay rates personally. No.douht from:
the 486,000 persons great deductions must be made for the
migratory character of a large portion of 'them. Bat there
would then remain a great proportion of those 480,000
persons who have not the opportunity of being rated to the
-poor, because by certain acts of Parliament, some of a gene-
ral character and souse of a local character, the owners pay
the rates, and compound for the rates of tenants and occu-
piers, who in consequence of that arrangement aro called
compound householders. Most of these are under the ope-
ration of an act with which doubtless every gentleman in
the house is familiar, viz., the Small 'renementsAct. There
are in England 58 boroughs which are entirely under the
operation of the Small Tenements Act, and 96 boroughsin
which there are parishes under the operation of that act, so
that they aro partially under the operation of tho small
'Tenements Act. Now, sir, in considering the settlement of
the franchise for boroughs, and considering the possibility
of attempting to establish it, not upon a fluctuating prin-
ciple of value, which is only a question-of degree, and which
may vary, and which you may be called on to change from
year to year, it is impossible not to consider the question of
, the peculiar position of the compound householders. A
question had arisen whether compound householders should
have a vote. Well, sir, in our opinion, and assuming that
the house is of the sante opinion, the foundation of the
franchise should be rating-the payment of rates ; and that
that is adopted by the house, not as a check, as some may
say, but, on the contrary, as a qualification-(hear, hear)
-and because it is the best evidence of the trustworthiness
of the individual. We have no hesitation in saying our-
selyea that we du think the compound householders, as a
compound householder, ought.to have a vote, (Hear, hear.)
But, sir, we aro far from saying that. any person who is a
compound householder-from the influence of acts which
have been passed for the convenience of vestries -should
be depiived of the opportunity of obtaining, and enjoying
those rights which persons iu the sante sphere may have
had . granted to them, and which, for aught we know,
these compound householders may be equally competent
to enjoy and fulfil. Therefore, we shall have
.to cons
sidee.whether it would not be possible to concede to all these
compound householders who are deprived for the moment,
by the rating acts to which I have referred, either
.of
general or a I,cal character-whether it might not be poss.
sible to give them the right of accepting a public duty arid
enjoying in consequence the public right which others in
the same sphere of life, and influenced in their conduct by
the same condition of existence, might possess. And taking
this general view of the question, seeing the impossibility
of nettling this question upon any principle connected with
value, and that it is only by talgug the rating principle
in its completeness and authenticity that you can get a
principle op which you can rest, and upon which there is
a perfect settlement-our opinion is- and we shall make
• thatproposition to the house-to establish the franchise
in boroughs.upon this principle : that any man who has
oedupi6d a house for two years and been rated to the
relief of the poor, and has paid his rates-that every
householder under • these conditions should enjoy the
borough franchise. (Cheers.) By that means the 237,000
peisons who aro now rated and pay their rates would be,
of course, at once qualified to enter; but with regard to the
compound householders, we propose that every facility
shall be given to them-that they shall be allowed to outer
their names 'upon the rate book, and to fulfil the constitu-
tional. conditions to which we have adverted ; and then
they can of course accede to theconstitutional right I have
mentioned. .(Cheers.) Now, sir, by that, it we pursue- that
course, you have your borough franchise fixed upon a prin-
ciple. .(Hear, Lear.) You know where you are. You know
that the power of electing members of Parliament must be
exercised by men who by their
position in life have shown
that they are qualified for the trust. And meeting the
dif-
ficulty -of the compound householder by the provisions
which are in the bill, which will give every facility to claim
the exercise of the same right, on condition of fulfilling the
same duty, the whole of the 723,000 householders in the
boroughs of England that aro at present not qualified to
vote for members of Parliament will be qualified by the
bill I propose and am asking leave to introduce. Nor will
there be a men among them who, if he deserves the frau-
&lase, may not have it. (CheerS.) Now, sir, I have
heard many:. observations on this question of the com-
punad honsehold,T;. They are not arguments -Alley are
plausible statements. Th"y really du amount to this-
that those who wish that the compound housohold'or
should not qualify himself for a vote by the constitu-
tional condition we propose as a means by which the
suffrage should be obtained, really, in fact, make one as-
sumption upon which all their remarks are founded ; and
it is this, that the working classes of this country are really
so little interested in the possession and exercise of the
suffrage that they won't take the slightest trouble in
order to avail themselves of it and to possess it. (Hear,
hoar.) Well, that may be the opinion of those who make
these observations, but it is not the opinion of her Ma-
jesty's Ministers. We . believe that the feeling of the
great body of the people on this great subject is very gene-
rid, and that it is a feeling very-likely to increase in this
country- (hear, hear) -and that the couditlonS'whlch we
. have laid down as those which should qualify a house-
holder in a borough for a vote are consistent with the
, security of society, and are at the same time conditions
, which would ho agrooable to the mind of every industrious

man of integrity. (Hear, bear.) Now 1 will just recapitulate
to the house for a moment the figures we have to deal with,
because such vague assertions are made, in the absence of
accurate statistics on the subjects of voting and house-
holders, that it is well for the house to bear in mind what
these figures are : There are 1,367,000 male householders
in the boroughs of England; and, at the present moment,
there are 644,000 of them qualified to vote.
Mr. BRIGHT—May I ask if only houses are counted, or
whether the figures include warehouses, shops, and other
buildings ?

Tho CHANCELLOR of tho EXCHEQUER—These are
housps.

Mr. BRIG LlT—Houses only?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIE4UER- -11ou-see.;
dwelling-houses. (Hear, hear.) The male ocettp'sirs of
dwelling-house's. Of the 723,000, if the house accedes to
the building which I am asking leave to introduce, 237,000
now rated to the poor; and paying their rates, would im-
mediately be qualified to vote; and to the 486,000 who re-
main, and who are compound householders, faCilities will
be afforded, so that if they chose to claim their vote—that
is to say, to pay their rites, insert their names in the rate-
book--they will also, as a 'water of cou.s., attain to the
enjoyment of the franchise. Well, sir, that appears to us to
be the onlysiohl foundation upon which you can settle
t'xis question of the borough franchiss, and I have heard,
nothing which gives m 9 any hope that any other plan can
be offered which involves at the same time a permanent
settlement. The State has a right to ask that a person who
exercises the suffrage is not a migratory pauper. And
as regards settlement, I can see no satisfactory settlement
unless you lay down the, principle that every 'householder
who fulfils the constitutional conditions to which I have
adverted, aid which prove hint to be fitted for the exer-
cise of such a trust—unless you take that course, I can see
no chance but that this question will be fur ever -agitated.
(Hear, hear.) Now, sir, there is a plan which lam told at
this moment is popular among certain persons—some of
them, no doubt, members of this house. There are a great
many', plans, both as regards tke suffrage and the distribu-
tion cf seats and other matters, which I have no doubt will
come uudor the consideration of the houSes and when they
do it will be very much to the advantagoaef-these who in-
troduce them to our notice; for I believe that no subject
can ever be better understood-Shan situ-, a -diacussiou in
the Ilintse of Commons. -;:(litiar.) But there is a plan I ton
toldwhich is popular with dertain persons, and which is
held forth as a more satisfactory settlement of this question
than the one I have proposed; and that is what isscalled
the £5 rating—the suffrage to be established on 1,..f..5
rating. Now, sir, I must say, having brid very much.iin
consider this question, I know' .no §erbonian bog deeper
than this £5 rating would involve us in. %In the present
state of the law, as I have told the house, lithe interpre-
tation that we have placed upon the great Vote of last
year be a sound one, and if really the ll9tssa 9f Commons
means the principle of rating to be the foundation of the
suffrage—the rating to be bone fuse and authentic rating-,
then there is no such thing. Taking what is nominally a £5
rating as your foundation, you get a very numerous and in-
discriminate number of persons let in to the enjoyment of
rights without the preliminary performance of chides ; and
who when let in, will leave a great many behind them who,
because Others are let in, immediately cry to be ad-
mitted. If, in the present state of the law, there is no no-
minal rating which does not practically admit a multi-
tudo of compound householders, then where is your settle-
ment ? Because there is no more reason why a£s rating
should give a vote than a £4. Then lam told this great
difficulty is to be overcome by these moans—there is to be
a violent change in the law of England. Nominally £5
raters are to be turned into boua fide £5 raters by the ope-
ration of the law, and the law is to provide that after this
change takes place, and men who were nominally rated at
£5 are really rated at £5, no Englishman with that fran-
chise is to enjoy the privilege of voting, and that all under
that are in fact to be taken out of the sphere of self-go-
verntnent, and deprived of the opportunity which the
humblest now possesses„ and would possess under the plan
we propose, of performing a public duty and consequently
obtaining public rights. (Cheers.) I can imagine no
scheme more injurious, I may say more fatal, than a pro-
position of that kind. It seems to me that if we were to
adopt it, manhood suffrage would bo the logical and neces-
sary consequence ; and every man who finds that he is in
a position in which he may not be permitted to fulfil a con-
stitutional condition which may give him a constitutional
right, would naturally fall back into the arms of the lowest
agitators, and feel that his only chance of everattaining the
rights of citizenship would bo by a process which hitherto
has not been recognised by any authorities in this country.
(Hear, hear.) I have now expressed to the house, so far as
the occupation in boroughs is concerned, on what principle
we recommend the borough franchise to be founded. It is
one which would make at once 237,000 persons qualified
for the suffrage, and would allow all who were not rated
before to avail themselves of the right, and so, if they
choose, to become electors. (Hear, hear.) But it is said,
and it has ,been said by a very high authority, ono for
whom I have a great personal regard arid respect—though,
consideriusswhat a high. Authority,ho•its-I tlink-ho some-
times, especially with regard to his opponents, makes very
reckless remarks - (laughter) —that the plan of the Govern-
Mesa, with which at the time that great authority was un-
acaptainted, and for. which he really might have waited—
(laughter)—was an insult on the rights and power of the
middle classes. That certainly is not the intention of her
Majesty's Government. ller Majesty's Government ate
anxious that, on the one, hand, the aristocracy, and, on the
other, the working classes, should have their full share in
the parliamentary constitution•ef 'the- country; but thay
recognise with sincerity the extreme expediency that the
influence of the middle class of the country should not be
diminished. They look to the steady virtues of that class
to exercise a right bias on the constitut.on of this country,
and they believe that the influence and authority which
they obtained to a groat degree in 1832 has beets exercised
wisely, worthily, and to the advantage of this country.
(Cheers.) But if there is, by the proposition which I have
to make, a chance of such a result as that which has been
intimated by this great authority, why I think that we
meet it by a proposition to iestituto a franchise founded on
a most popular principle, and one in which the middle
class must largely partake, that is, the franchise founded
on the payment of direct taxation. (Hear, hear.) We pro-
pose that every person in England who pays 20s. a year
direct taxation shall possess a vote. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE —Whether he be a compound house-
holder or not ? • • •

The CHANCELLOR of tha EXCHEQUER—NiThoever
pays 20s. annual direct taxation shall have a 'rote, and
thus we can build up the constituencies' which would
establisik the franchise in the boroughs upon two great
principle; the payment of direct taxation, and the pay-
ment of rates. (Cheers.) But it has been urged that the
enjoyment of this franchise, founded upon the payment
of direct taxation, is ono that would not be enjoyed as in-
tended in a great degree by the class whose influence it is
said our proposition may assail. That is te.say, that most
of them are householders, and, therefore, they would not
enjoy this franchise. We meet that objection by propos-
ing that a person who pays 20s. direct taxation, and who
enjoys the franchise, which depends upon the payment of
direct taxation, if he is also a householder and pays his:
rates, may exercise his suffrage in rospect'ef both qualifi-
cations. Oh, oh !" from the Opposition, and Ministerial

cheers.)
Mr. GLADSTONE here put a question to the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, but was received with cries of " Order.''
The Chancellor of the 'Exchequer having resumed his seat,
shltowpisuitl atoqiniessktiownhAovihhiecrh
ai s
cvoeurly-
. Lave
e payingvote
mMs.rieGril,aildtsototnheesasidu—bjelcwt.i,
payingnt mentioned,his
ow
awroautlT
disi)ruenctd, oeuiax:toe lietlhdeera, lout
in respect of paying direct taxation?
'l'he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—He would,
of. course, have a vote in respect of the franchise he enjoys
as a payer of direct taxation, and if he chose to pay his
rates in addition Le would have two votes. (Hear, hear.)
13:fere I give to the house a general summary of the re-
sult of this upon the borough constituency, there aro yet
some other franchises with which the house is familiar,
but whien I wish to recommend to their consideration.
Mr. ROEBUCK—WiII tlui right hon. gentleman state
what he moans by direct taxation ? (Hear, hozir.).
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to oliserva that that would not include the qualification
which was so humorously referred to by an hon. gentleman*
opposite, because it would not include anything paid under
licences of any description. (Laughter and cheers.) But
there;nre other franchises which we propese, and though
they are not of vast importance, still they are founded on
right principles, and I hope the house will candidly consider
them. The vote which we wish to found upon the poi-
session of £5O property in the funds and £5O property in
the savings banks constitute property qualifications of this
character. We will give to small holders of personal pro-
perty the same privilege which the small holden; of real
property have ; and as a man with a freehold of 40s. has a
votA, we think that a person whohas an equivalent-property
of a personal character shoal I also have a vote. (Hear.)
And they are votes which we believe would be entrusted
to a class connected in a great degree with' the working
classes, and which would be vary advantageously exer-
cised. (Hear, hear.) Then, again, there is the educatioLeil
franchise. It, has been said that if you introduce a suffrage
founded on the payment of direct taxation, it would sup-
ply means for exercising a vote to those persons who would
otherwise figure under the head of educational franchise.
This is to a certain degree no doubt true ; but after inves-
tigating what would be the operation of such a franchise
I find there are many persons in whose conditiou the house
would be deeply interested, who, especially in the country,
would not have the opportunity, either as householders or
payers of direct taxation, of exercising the suffrage. Yet
they are people peculiarly qualified for such a trust, and
amongst others the position of ministers of religion
is remarkable. (Hoar, hear.) I speak of ministers of
all sects, and I find that those men devote their
lives to the solace and the elevation• of their sense of ex-
istence, and would admirably exercise to a certain degree
a political influence; but either as householders or as
payers of taxes, especially to the amount of 205., they
would certa:nly be debarred from voting. Therefore I
trust that the house will allow these three suffrages to
pass. Now the general result of this would be —I speak