The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-16 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.-.-(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool-
sack at five o'clock.
PUBLIC MEASURES.
The Marquis of WESTMEA.TH brought in a bill to
suppress barrel organs and other nuisances in the public
streets of the metropolis. (Laughter.)
PATRIOTIC FUND.
The Duke of NORFOLK gave notice that on Monday
next he would move a humble address to her Majesty
praying far certain returns relative to the patriotic fund,
COMMUNICATION WITH DUBLIN.
Viscount DUNGANNON asked the Postmaster-
General whether any arrangement had been definitely
come to on the part of her Majesty's Government with
the Dublin Steam Packet Co. relative to the transmission
of the mails between Holyhead and Kingstown ; and
whether the difficulties repots ed to have arisen with regard
to carrying into effect the object of lager vessels, capable
of performing the passage in a shorter period of time,
being placed on that station, had been overcome I
Lord COLCHESTER said he would endeavour to
answer the question, though as far as he was concerned
he had taken no part in it. A scheme had been under-
taken by three great companies, viz., the North-
Western Railway, the Cheater and Holyhead
Railway, and the Dublin Steam-packet Com-
pany. The contract had been submitted to the
Post•office authorities, and by them referred to theTrea-
silry for their sanction, and there was nothing to lead
him to entertain any other hope than eventually the con-
tract would be signed by all parties and then carried into
execution. There was no specific time prescribed in the
contract for the sea passage, but the companies were
bound under very heavy penalties to effect the journey
from Euston-square to Dublin in 11 hour.
Lord REDESDALE said a difficulty had arisen be-
fore him with respect to this subject. Their lordships
might not be aware that there was now on foot measures
for the complete amalgamation of the North-Western
and the Cheater and Holyhead Railways, the effect of
which would be that the North-Western Railway would
so arrange the fares that the whole of the traffic between
London and Dublin via Holyhead would f .11 into
the hands of that company, including the mails. No
company, if this arrangement was carried into effect,
could compete with the amalgamated companies, and no
large sums had been spent on the improvement of
Kingstown Harbour. He thought Parliament ought to
be very cautious how they granted to any company such
a monopoly as he had mentioned. He had told the
parties who had been before him that he would be no
party to such an arrangement.
Alter a few words from the Marquis of CLANRICALIDE,
the subject dropped.
THE PASSPORT SYSTEM.
The Earlof MALMESBURY—I beg leave to lay upon
your lordships' table the correspondence between the
English and French Governments on the subject of pass-
ports. It may be advantageous to the public generslly if
I should briefly explain what has been done by the late
Government and the present Government on the subject.
Your lordships know very well that after the attempt on
the Emperor's life at Paris the French Government was
naturally alarmed at the plots of foreigners in this coun-
try and in France. They thought that the Emperor's life
would be made more secure by a change in their sysltbe-
em
of passports. As suggestion was made to them by,
lieve, her Majesty's Consul at Havre (if I am in error the
noble earl opposite can correct me). that no passport
given to an Englishman should be signed by any French
agent. That suggestion was communicated t and
adopted by my noble friend. Many complaints have been
made against the French Government on this 'object,
but very unfairly, because, if a passpsrt system be ad-
hered to by the French Government, nothing can be
more just than that they should require that any subject
of a foreign country visiting France should present a
passport signed by the authorities of the country to
which he belongs. The alteration in the system of pass-
ports occasioned some difficulty to English travellers.
Many Englishmen formerly went without any passports
to Boulogne, Calais, and Paris. At all events, if they
had no English passports, they without any difficulty ob-
tained passports from French agents, without being
obliged to came to the Foreign-office in London. lam
glad to inform your lordship: that the French Govern-
moot have most liberally said that Englishmen living in
France may travel from one town to another in Franco
without English passports, and simply with the French
passports given to them in France. They have also said
that any French consul may wiser an English passport,
and have appointed agents at the principal ports in the
Channel and at Liverpool to wiser English passports,
which will do away with the necessity of English tra-
vellers coming to London. So much with respect to
the steps taken by the French Government. When my
noble friend opposite found that he was to give the
whole of the passports granted to Englishmen by the
Foreign. office he required some sort of security that the
person described in the passport was really the person
to whom it was granted. It has been said that an Eng-
lish passport should be merely a certificate of British
citizenship; but I think reflection will bring your lord-
ships and my countrymen throughout England to the
conclusion that that would not be sufficient, and that a
passport must necesssrly identify the person who bears
it. My noble friend sought for that security in a certi-
ficatetomabyr andeogra magistratesntedtoapers of person ate
phpltyoi nwgnsin fora
whch he
passportit
by the
applicant resided. That process, in consequence of the
small number of those who could grant such certificates,
and of the necessity of transmitting such certificates to
the Foreign-office, was found to be very incsnvenlent to
many English travellers. Those teho complained of the
inconvenience sus, gested that mayors and magistrates
should be empowered to give passports independently of
the Foreign- ffice. That was a very plausible suggestion,
but we all know that what is everybody's business is
nobody's business. No mayor or magistrate could be ob-
liged by any act of Parliament or executive authority to
vise' or grant passports. In many cases it was of the ut-
most importance that passports should be granted with-
out a moment's delay, and, if that burden were oast upon
them, applicants fur passports might make their demands
upon them at any hour of the night or day. Some mayors
and magistrates would no doubt be good natured enough
to such applicants, but we may imagine a mayor the mo-
ment he sat down to dinner, or a magistrate just as he
was going to meet the hounds, being asked for a pass-
port. It is very likely that in such cases the applicants
would hear anything but the expression of wishes for a
good journey. (Laughter.) On consideration I thought
it would be best to widen the area of the godfathers (if I
may say s.o), who should give certificates of identity to
applicants, Her Majesty's Government having approved
my suggestion, we have agreed that not only mayors and
magistrates 'but clergymen of the various Christian de-
nominations, physicians, surgeons, solicitors, and nota-
ries should be empowered to give certificates of identity
to persons -wishing to obtain passports. I think it will
be almost impossible for any one in any part of England
to fail in, obtaining a passport under this new arrange.
must. It bas been said that it is a great inconvenience to
travellers to come to the Foreign-office in London with
these certificates for passports, and that passports ought
to he granted at other places besides the Foreign-office

If that were the case the foreign officials would have great
difficulty in ascertaining the genuineness of paeep rte
granted elsewhere than at the Foreign-office, and English
travelers would be detained till the doubts of the officials
had been removed. Those foreign offcials are well ac-
quainted with the arms or the Queen, and the signature
of the Foreign Secretary for the time soon becomes fa-
miliar to them. I therefore thought it was of the utmost
importance to English travelling Ow their passports
should be issued from the Foreign-nffice. In order that
persona may not be under the obligation of repairing to
London to get a passport, her Majesty's Government
have appointed agents at Dover, Folkestone, Southamp-
ton, and Liverpool, for the purpose of delivering Foreign-
office passports, and others may be sppeinted if it be
foand necessary. Persons who wish.to travel, therefore,
will only have to take the certificate of identity which I
have described, either to the Foreign office or to the agent
at the port where they mean to embark, and a Foreign-
office passport will be delivered to them which will be
s by the consul of the French Government at that port;
or, if they do not wish to take the certificate themselves,
they may send it a day or two beforehand to the Foreign-
office, or to one of the agents, with a request that a pass-
port may be ready for them by such a day and such an
hour, or that it may be forwarded to them by post.
Under these circumstances I cannot see that the
slightest inconvenience will be eustaired by any person
wishing to obtain a passport. We have further thought
it right to lower the duty upon these Passports. (Hear,
hear.) The stamp duty is at present is., and there is a
fee of ls. for Foreign-office Expenses. We propose to
reduce the stamp duty to Is., and to retain the le. fee ;
so that the, cost will be 21. It is only fair to the poorer
classes of travellers—pereous who go abroad in search
of employment—that the cost should be as low as pos-
sible. I do not thick we can do more than I have
stated to facilitate the acquisition of passports. 1 have
made this statement, hoping that it will be well under-
stood and circulated through the country in the usual
coarse, because one of the great reasons why so much
inconvenience has been experienced is that the regula-
tions laid down by the late Foreign Secretary have not
been properly understood. I will only add this recom-
mendation to all likely travellers, and especially to that
class on whose behalf there have been so many hypothe-

tical complaints in the papers—psreOns residing on the
coast of this country, whose families reside on the coast
of France, and who are liable to be called abroad sud-
denly en account of illness in their families—that as a
passport will now only cost 25., every man might as well
furnish himself with one at once, just as be would with
a Bradshaw or an almanac. If that is done no one who
has to go abroad will suffer any inconvenience on this
side of the Channel, and from the liberal conduct of the
French Government I think I may say that they are not
likely to meet with any on the other. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of CLARENDON—I have listened with
great satisfaction to the statement of my noble friend,
and I have no doubt, from the liberal arrangements
which have been made by the French Government, and
especially from the exten led facilities which are to be
given in this country for obtaining passports, that the
object in view will be attained. The arrangement
which I made after the French Government bad deter-
mined not to allow their consuls in this country to grant
passports to any but their own countrymen was merely
provisional and adopted to meet an emergency, although
it is much the same as that which was adopted three
years ago in order to enable artisans and others ref that
class to visit the Paris Exhibition. I always felt that
the system was capable of great enlargement after there
had been time for consideration. It was adopted at a
time of year when there was not much travelling, and
though of coarse some per:ous will al ways suffer when
there is a cfiange of system, I do not think that the
inconvenience has been so great on the whole as has
been supposed. The change proposed will no doubt be
a great benefit to the poorer classes of travellers who go
abroad in search of employment, and travellers in
general will find great advantage in being furnished
with a passport from their own Government instead
of with one granted by a foreign consul. But the
whole system of passports is a great mistake.
(Cheers.) It gives no protection to foreign Govern.
inents in respect to those very persons against whom
they wish to guard themselves, because they always take
good care to have their papers eta reyle, and it is the in-
nocent and ignorant travellers who sulk's:- annoyance from
some unintentional omission. (Hear, hear.) I know
that this is the opinion of the Emperor of the French.
tSernom, yearsebut heago a
she
fairlywished
beaten to get ridy
the of
objectionsthe passport
ra
raised
aty wasnecessary o aryfor the
represented to
him that pai,pohrtiss owwerneoinfficsoiam4e w
apgreatpinesrtchairEaryibnyg out of that system of strict surveillance
which is deemed necessary.s
The Bail of M RES 11IIRY—There is a great pass.
port interest, in fact.
The Earl of CLA.RENDON—Just so. But things
are not so bad in this respect as they used to be some
years ago. In Austria, where the regulations were
more vexatious and were carried out with greater
strictness than on any part of the continent, a great
change has been made within the last twelvemonths
in the passport system, and I believe there is no
country in Europe where a traveller call go about with
greater ease. But, however, we cannot impose our
notions upon foreign countries ; all we can do is to afford
all the facilities in our power to our own countrymen,
and I think my noble friend has shown his readiness to
do that. I heard with great pleasure that be intends to
reduce the cost of the passport, though I do not under-
stand exactly how he means to do it. When I reduced
the cost, some time ago, from 6d. to 6e. it was by
cutting down the fee of the Foreign-office from 2s. 6d.
to ls., which I found would be quite sufficient to pay
all expenses, without leaving any profit. But when I
applied to the Cha cellor of the Exchequer to do away
altogether with the stamp duty, it was found on inquiry
that this bad been imposed by Aot of Parliament, and
of course could only be abolished by Act of Parliament.
The Earl of MA.LMESBURY—I ought to have said
that we intend to bring in a bill for the purpose.
The Earl of CLARENDON—That of coulee explains
the difficulty, but I think while they are alsout it, the
Government, having made up their minds to sacrifice
45., may as well get rid of all the duty, which will leave
the cost of the passport just is. as far as the English
Government is concerned. Toat would be the moat
satisfactory course, and I am sure it will be a great
boon to all interested in this matter.
In answer to a noble lord,
Toe Earl of MALMESBURY said, that as regarded
Britisb-born subjects there was no limit of time to
Foreign-office passports. As regarded naturalised sub-
jects it had been the custom to grant them only for one
year.

by
e
by
yihe
French
tethieGoEvnt
- Earl GREY slid, there could be no greater proof
Governmentf
the
ror e
iagr
id
atiri
sanctioned proposeds
of the absurdity of the passport system than the regu
office was to deliver passports to any one who brought
a certificate from the various persons whom the noble
earl had named, of the authenticity of which the
Foreign-office could have no proof, be saw 110 reason
why all the mayors and magistrates in the king-
dom should not be furnished with blank Foreign-
gralinshient
office passport.., which they could fill up and
deliver to applicants without any further formality.
There was no pretence of investigation to prevent any
one not a British Subject Betting a passport, nor any se-
curity against a British subject handing over his passport
the next moment to a foreigner. When the noble e.irl
had gone so far he did not see why he should not go far-
ther, and supply passports ready filled up to competent
authorities in the different towns to deliver them on their
own responsibility at once to any applicant. (Hear.)
The Bail of MALMESBURY—I am not here to de-
fend the system of passports. There is not a man in this
house who thinks more contemptuously of them than I
do. (Hear.) But I thought that I had made myself
clear when I gave the reason why I did not send these
Foreign-office passports to the towns, or allow any others
to be distributed by the mayors or magistrates. It is
because they would not be obliged to deliver them.
Some magistrates might choose only to distribute them
between 12 and 2, others only in the evening, and,
again, others might refuse to distribute them at
all. People must be obliged to do it, and paid to
do it, and when they are paid they are obliged to do it.
If it is to be a self supporting establishment, it mast be
conducted econoinios.lly. The more agents there are,
the more agents must be paid, and if each of a large
number of agents distributes a small number of pass-
ports, the payment which would be sufficient for a small
number of agents distributing is large number of pass-
ports would not be enough for their trouble, We know
pretty well how many passports will be demanded, and
we calculate that with. only six or seven agents, who
will be obliged to deliver them at any time of the day or
night, the system w;ll be self-supporting at a certain
charge. That is my. answer to the proposition of the
noble earl—a proposition which has often been submitted
before; but if he can tell me boa I am to oblige magis-
trates in towns or counties to deliver passports it will be
a somewhat different matter. (Hear.)
Earl GREY said he could not understand why there
should not be a concurrent local de'ivery where parties
were willing to undertake the trouble. He quite agreed
that it was highly inexpedient to attempt to compel
parties to deliver passports, or to have too many agents.
Earl GRANVILLE said the country ought to be
grateful to the noble earl the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs for the pains he had taken to increase
the facilities of obtaining passports, but at the same time
the suggestion of the nohl, earl (Grey) was worthy of
attention. The whole thing turned upon whether the
French Government bad aeko rated to this plan, because,
if they had, there was nothing more to be said. He
wished to know whether the new system applied solely
to France or to other countries?
The Earl of MALMESBURY—No country has ever
objected to any passport. signed by the Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs. They have always trusted that the
passport has been signed upon his being satisfied that it
was the bona fide passport of the applicant, and I have
never heard of a Foreign-office passport being questioned
in Any way.
The subject then dropped.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH asked the First Lord
of the Treasury whether it was the intention of her
Majesty's government to proceed with the bill introduced
last session by the late Government into the House of

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YEsTER,DAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BILLS.
The f Mowing bills were read a third time and passed :
—Bury and Radcliffe Water, Eden Valley Railway,
Haslingden and Rawtenstall Water, Madras Irrigation
and Canal, Malvern Improvement, Sculcoates and
Kingston-upon• Hull Gas ; Staffordshire Potterie4 Gas ;
Stoke Fenton and Langton Gas ; and Ely Valley Rail-
way.
The following bills were considered, and ordered to be
read a third time :—Folkestone Water Bill ; Liskea-ci
and Lone Union Canal Company's Railway Bill ; Selkirk
and Galashiels Railway Bill.
EDUCATION OF SOLDIERS' CHILDREN.
Mr. DEASY gave notice that be should, on Tuesday,
the 4th of June, call the attention of the house to
the inadequate provision made for the religious wants of
Roman Catholic soldiers, and the education of their chil-
dren, and move an humble address to her Majesty pray-
ing her Majesty thereon.

MAYNOOTII.
Mr. SPOONER gave notice that ho should postpoce
his motion relative to Maynooth, which stands for Tues-
day next, till this day fortnigh,. (Laughter.)
PROPERTY QUALIFICATION.
Mr. LOCKE KING gave notice that he should, on
this day week, move for leave to introduce
a bill for the abolition of property qualification for mem-
bers of Parliament. (Hear, hear.)
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.
Mr. J. LOCKE (Southwark) gave notice that he
should on Tuesday week move to bring in a bill to
amend the 5 and 6 Wm. IV., chap. 63, relative to
weights and measures.
TITE METROPOLITAN BRIDGES.
Sir W. FRASER, asked whether there was any ob-
jection to the bridge about to be erected over the Thames
next above Waterloo-bridge being called Sebastopol-
bridge ; also, whether there was any intention of provid-
iog additional means of crossing tho Thames for vehicles,
either by building a bridge near Charing-cross, or by
purchasing Waterloo-bridge, and opening it free of toll ?
Lord J. MANNERS reminded the house that on the
late visit of the Emperor and Empress of the -French to
this country it was gravely proposed, and seriously con-
sidered to change the name of Waterloo-bridge and
Trafalgar-square out of deference to those illustrious in-
dividuals, but be was happy to ecat,:%.:rst the good sense
of the country declined to ma.e she change, and it
might be urged as one reason against adopting the pro-
posed change. (Rear, hear.)... He thought that the
proposal to change the name of Waterloo•
bridge to Sebastopol-bridge came too late. If it
had been suggested at the close of the war, no
doubt it would have been considered, but now that our
armies were engaged in another quarter, and bad
achieved deeds' of renown fresh in the minds of
the people, and associated with a portion of
our own foreign empire, it would be impolitic
to adopt it. So far as the Government was
concerned, he knew of no intention on their part to erect
another bridge over the Thames for the accommodation
of the metropolitan population. With respect to West-
minster-bridge he thought it would be better to retain
that name, associated as it was with the palace in which
they conducted their legislative labours, than alter it.
(Hear, bear.)
LIGHTHOUSES AND BEACONS ON THE COAST.
Lord C. PAGET then rem to call the attention of the
house to the present modes of superintending the lights,
buoys, and beacons on the coasts of Great Britain and Ire-
land, and to the manner in which funds are now, and have
been, raised to defray the expenditure thereon; and to move
that this house will, upon this day week, resolve itself into a
committee, for the purpose of considering an address to her
Majesty, praying her Majesty to direct that measures maybe
taken for giving effect to the recommendation of the select
committee on Lighthouses of 184 -, namely, " that all ex-
penses for the erection and maintenance of lighthouses,
floating lights, buoys, and beacons on the coast of the
United Kingdom, be henceforth defrayed out of the public
revenue." Ho said he felt it was incumbent on him, so
uninfluential a member, to apologise to the house for ven-
turing to bring forward a motion which must involve a
total change in the system of lighthouses on the coasts of
the United Kingdom, and an eventual expenditure of pub-
lic money on them. He had requested several more influ-
ential members to take charge of the subject, but they
thought it would come better from him as a seafaring man.
(Rear.) He therefore asked their indulgence, more especi-
ally as he would have to refer to a number of dry details
to explain the sy stem on which the coast was now lighted,
and show the house that this great maritime country, the
pioneer of free unrestricted intercourse, was the lowest of
all nations with regard to lighting and buoying the coasts.
The danger to life and property from the present utter want
of system was a sufficient warrant for his motion. He be-
lieved no one would dispute that it was a matter of vital
importance to mariners to have some simple and uniform
system of lighting the coasts. Anything which tended to
complication would inevitably involve them in groat dan-
gerought to be some simple and uniform rule for approaching
the coast with as few and uvcomplicated regulations as
possible—(hear, hear) —with a simple system of lights and
buoys.
the present
beforepresent systemdohig onso ourie
in
nd si vslatreons
st,h they t ahpp lossr o acohfedsp tahres, coorassthe
oi
iot
.bhasro weather, or
e
wished to return his thanks to the French Minister of
Public Works and to M. Louis Renaud, the head of
coast
with
he
that wld
ofcompareFra
the Lighthouse department, for the aduainible work which
they had drawn up for his guidance. France was not the
only country which had done much in this respect. The
nce ,
United States and Russia had made great reforms, and
Spain and Portugal had carried out a regular system of
lighting and buoying. What was the case with the south
coast of England ? Ho would quote from the book of sail-
in., directions.
b The first harbour he would refer to was
Shorehatn. That was a bar harbour, as were the greater
number of harbours on that coast, for which a foreigner if
caught in a gale of wind would be obliged to run. Here,
when there were 10 feet of water over the bar, a red flag
was hoisted, and at high water a black one. At Newhaven
(only a few miles off), a black ball was hoisted when there
were from 8 to 10 feet, and two balls at high water ; at
Dover a red flag with a black ball, from 7 to 10 feet, and a
red and blue pennant from !l0 to 13 ; at Sunderland a red
flag half-mast high, 8 to 10 feet, at high water the flag was
hoisted to the mast head. On the coast of Scotland—at
Arbroath, a blue flag and black ball showed from 8 to 10
feet. He would not trouble the house with further details ;
he had given enough to show that every harbour was regu-
lated under a different system. In making this motion ho
had no wish to attack the Trinity House, which had care
of the lights on the English coast ; those in Scotland were
under the control of the Commissioners of Northern Lights,
and in Ireland under the Dublin Ballast Board. All three
were indirectly under the control of the Board of Trade.
Ho' did not want to accuse the Trinity House of jobbery,
but merely to show that there was no regular system of
lighting or buoying on the coasts. He had given instances
with regard to signals - it was the same with buoys. Every
little harbour had its own system. He was, however, bound
to say that in all cases it was well done, and the different
corporations showed the greatest anxiety to render their
harbour as safe and accessible as possible. If they looked to
a chart of the Thames they would find the most complicated
system of buoying. In every channel there were red, striped,
chequered, and black buoys. No stranger, without a pilot,
could possibly steer clear of the dangers. He remembered
some eleven years ago asking a gentleman connected with
the Trinity-house why they allowed such a system ; saying
that he would defy any stranger caught in a gale of wind
off the Galloper to make his way into the Thames ; and
that they ought to adopt the French system, of having
buoys of a given colour on the starboard hand entering all
harbours, and of a different colour on the port side. In
France the buoys on the starboard hand were red, black on
the port, and striped in the middle. No matter how com-
plicated the channel, no one could mistake the course. The
answer he got was, " Oh, if we put buoys like that in the
Thames, no one would ever take a pilot." (Laughter )
Hundred of lives, therefore, were to be imperilled to com-
pel mariners to take a pilot. " But," added the gentle-
man, " we have a etronger reason than that : if there were
such a simple system as you suggest the French might
come up any night and burn Chatham." Was it to be
tolerated that for such puerile reasons this country should
be the last in Europe to reform her system ? He was
bound, however, to exclude from Scotland his sweeping
condemnation, as the Commissioners of Northern
Lights had within the last few weeks given notice that
from a given day an uniform system of buoys would
bo adopted in all the harbours under their control,—
via., red buoys on the starboard hand, black on the port,
and chequered on banks in mud chanuel. With his
system a man could find hie way into any harbour. The
French system was so gcod that he would venture to
hand to his right hon. friend the President of the Board
of Trade, for his guidance, the book ho had received
from the French authorities. But it was not in France
alone that a proper system of buoys was adopted. On
the Scheldt and the Elbe, very difficult rivers, the same
system was in use. The French system of signals was
equally good. They used balls, which were better than
flags, being more easily seen in calm weather, and with
directions which did not cover half a sheet of paper a cap-
tain might find his way into any harbour on the 1,500
miles of French coast. He wished to keep this question of
the establishment of afregular system entirely distinct from
that important question which now occupied the att3_
ex.
of the shipping interest —viz., the mode in which. tu'9
„Ilia refer to
regard to this question of expense hcomes
French coast
the example of France. On the 1,500
divided into two
there were 210 lighthouses. 'Thee? 77.0,ht0,
The cato trio
pense of keeping up the lights was to ben etfrat.yed With
classes—the catoptrio and dioptro p

was the old reflective system, such as was used by every
gentleman in his back passage---(x laugh) —viz., a lamp and
a reflector behind it. Of late years a new system of light-
ing—the dioptric --had been invented by a Frenchman, a.
Trenelle, and improved by a Scotchman, Mr. Stephenson.
Of the 210 French lights 154 were on the dioptric system,
and only 56 on the old catoptric. The public lights on the
coast of England, under the Trinity-house, were 14 in
number ; the public lights on the coast of Scotland, 45 ;
and, the public lights on the coast of Ireland, 65 ; making
a total of 224 public lights, for which, in the year 1356,
353,000/. was paid in the form of light dues. The French
had 210 public lights, three-fourths of which were on the
dioptric or modern principle, while only 17 of our lights
were on that principle, and the cast of these 210 lights was
only 48,000/. (Hear.) He did not wish to overstate the
case. He was perfectly aware that, in order to make the
comparison a fair one, it was necessary to enter into detail?.
For example, the French had but one floating light for the
entire coast, whereas they had 33 floating liph ts for England
and 4 for Ireland. In order to avoid wearying the house, he
should con fine his remarks almost entirelyto the lights under
the Trinity-house, leavitig out the cases of Scotland and
Ireland, more especially as the former were sufficient forhis
purpose. He admitted that the sum of 353,000/. required to
be given with some qualifications ; and he would state the
real cost as he had been enabled io arrive at it by access to
the accounts in the posssssion of the Board of Trade. In
1356 there was paid for the maintenance of lighthouses to
the Trinity-house 139,50?/., to the Dublin Corporation
38,139/.,and to the Northern Light Commissioners 30,359/.,
making together a total of 203,003!. Now, he would ask
the house whether it were not just and right, when the
cost of the lights in this country presented such a contrast
to the cost of the lights of France, that public opinion
shoul Ibe called to the subject? (Hear, hear.) He knew
there were many causes which tended to make the light-
houses of England more expensive than those of France ;
but it was impossible tobelieve that there was due economy,
duo care in the expenditure under this head ; and eonsider-
ing that this money was paid by a very suffering class of
the community, a class which was suffering from competi-
tion with foreigners, and whose difficulties were increasing
from year to year, it behoved Parliament to watch this ex-
penditure very narrowly, and if possible to prevent a shil-
ling being spent beyond what was necessary for the due
maintenance of our lighthouses. The 43,0001. expended
on the French lights included a very large outlay for new
works. That sum included 1,655/. for new works and
buoys. (Hear.) Having shown the house that there was
great extravagance in the maintenance of our lighthouses,
he would endeavour to show by what means they could
get rid ortliis inordinate expenditure. He had gf.ne very
carefully into the details connected with that branch of the
subject. He had, in the first place, put the public land
lights of England at a cost above that of the first-class
lights of France. The average coot of the French light-
houses olthat class, was, for eclairage 8,546 francs, and
for ropairs 1,250 francs, making a total of 3901. per annum.
The second-class French lighthouses cost 3031., and the third
class,l42l. per annum. He had allowed for the English
lights 400/. a-year which was more than the cost of the
first-class French 'lights ; and, assuming that the number
would remain as it was, with the exception of the addition
of two new Scotch lighthouses, for which he had allowed,
there would,he thought, be no difficulty in reducing the coat
of our lighthouses to 186,003/. That estimate included
5 ~000/. for new works for the neat wear. There were cer-
tain places where the Government had wisely determined
to build new lighthouses, and he was informed by the
Board of Trade that about 50,000/. would be sufficient for
that purpose. It would be impossible to get rid of the old
system without pensioning off some of the old servants. He
had allowed 14,000/. for that, and for the establishment of
a central board, whose duty it would be to assimilate our
system to that of the French, and which he thought should
consist of intelligent engineers and an officer of the Board
of Trade. Ile proposed to get rid of the immense staff of
steamboats. At present there wore in all seven vessels em-
ployed. The Trinity-house had five, involving a cost of
from 27,00 ,/. to 30,000/. per annum. Considering that the
coastguard ships were now all to have tenders attached to
them, ho did not see why they should not look after the
lighthouses. It would very easy for them to supply the
lighthouses with provisions, to watch them, and to keep
them in repair. This would at once cut off about 33,0001. a
year. Well, then, there rsmain al that ancient corporation
the Trinity-house. He would not for a moment urge that
that corporation should die along with its twin brother
whose case was before them ; on the contrary be should be
very glad to believe that the Trinity-house could be advan-
tageously retained as the new central board ; but he very
much doubted whether theyleould get an od corporation
to amend its ways, and tointroduco the necessary economy
and reforms. Why, one of the five steamboats which the
Trinity-house possessed was a yacht. He had very great
respect for the elder brethren of the Trinity-house, and
should be glad to see them take an airing—(laughter) but
let it be done at their own expense ; he did not see why
the shipping interest should provide a yacht for them.
(Hear, hear.) If the Trinity-house could be made useful as
a now central board, let it be so ; but in these days, when
every country in Europe and the -United States also bad
established a simple and uniform system, it was incum-
bent on England, the great leader in all maritime matters,
to reform her system of lighthouses, and to make such
arrangements that every foreignev who approached our
coasts would have the utmost protection that could be af-
forded. So manifestly superior were the French lights in
brilliancy to our own, that, as he learnt from a report
issued by the Board of Trade, the French system had been
recommended by that department to the colonies for their
imitation. To the disgrace of the English nation, there
were points on the coast of the most dangerous nature,
where there were lenticular lights of the first order ;
whereas, on the coast of France there was no light of any
importance on that principle. Thelight at Dungeness and
the light at Heathy Head both being important, were both
catoptric lights. Just before reaching Folkestone, they had
no doubt all observed behind the vessel a magnificent light,
which was almost too strong, even there, to be looked at,
while in a contrary direction they beheld a light which in
comparison with the other, resembled a farthing candle.
The one was the light at Dungeness 10 miles off ; the other,
the light at Cape Grenet, 25 miles off. (Hear.) The ex-
pense of changing a light on the catoptric principle into a
light on the dioptric principle was only about 2,000/., and
when 350,000/. was being paid yearly for light dues, there
could be no solid excuse for not placing our lights on the
beet modern footing. (Hear.) In the report issued by the
Board of Trade for the guidance of the colonies it was
stated that the saving of expense secured by adopting the
new instead of the old system would be about 4 to 1, and
that the comparative brilliancy would be about 3 to I.
(Hear.) He had begun by admitting that the adoption of
his motion would eventually entail an expenditure of pub-
lic money, but he would console the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, by assuring him that no public money would be
actually required for two years. The right hon. gentleman
had at hisdieposal 400,0001., which arose from surplus light
dues, and which a deputation of shipowners who waited ou
him the other day asked him torefund to them. (Laughter.)
Now, supposing the right hon. gentleman should be of
opinion that the coast could not be lighted in a satisfactory
manner without being brought under the operation of one
uniform central system ; supposing the right hon. gentle.
man did agree with him that, however hateful the princi-
ple of centralisation might be to Englishmen in relation to
most subjects, yet exceptions were to be made, and no
efficient system of lighting the coast could be established
without centralisation, then he trusted the right hon. gen-
tleman
would be prepared to resign this surplus of
400,000/., which would maintain the lights for two years, I
at the expiration of which time there would, it was to be
hoped, be an overflowing exchequer. At all events he be-
lieved there would be no difficulty as regarded expense at
the en l of the two years, as the utmost amount of expen-
diture that would then be required would be 150,0e0/. In
making his calculation ho had put down 50,0301. for now
works ; the number of private lights was 149, each of thee.)
being under a separate corporation, and the expense of
maintaining them being over and above the 350,000/. ex-
pended for the public lights ; all these lights would, if his
motion were carried out, pass into the hands of the Board
of Trade, and he had no doubt that the 373 lights would
be efficiently maintained at an expense of 150,000/. per an-
num. He thought that the central board should be under
the control of Parliament ; that is, should have a repre-
sentative in that house, who would be held responsible for
the money expended. The Trinity-house was, he was
aware, indirectly responsible to the Board of Trade ; but
the Board of Trade had no means of controlling its ex-
ponditure, nor could it control the expenditure for the
Scotch and Irish lighthouses. The present system was,
in fact, one of the worst forms of double Government.
The coil which they were now seeking to get rid of, in
relation to India, would be perpetuated iu this country
so long as they kept up the Trinity Board, the
Northern Lights Commission, the Irish Board, and the
Marine Department of the Board of Trade. If he had
not already occupied so much time, he should have
entered at some length into an examination of the
jobberies under which the shipping interest had suffered
and were still suffering. He might, for example, have
referred to the reports of two committees on this sub-
ject, both of which were presided over by one of the most
indefatigable detectors of abuses that ever sat in that house
—he meant the late Mr. Joseph Hume. (Cheers.) These
reports wore dated 1834 and 1845 ; they were monuments
of Mr. Hurne's care and industry, and they showed that
iu his opinion the case of the shipping interest deserved
the greatest consideration. As regarded the private lights,
Mr. Hume thought that Parliament should take upon itself
the payment of the debt. He was happy to find that the
noble lord the member for Tiverton, who was a member of
the committee of 1841, was in favour of bringing all the
lights under the operation of one central system. It having
been proposed that the Trinity-house should be the central
board, the noble lord unsuccessfully offered that proposal.
He afterwards proposed that one-third of the members of
the Trinity-house should be nominated by the Crown,
thinking that, as the board was then self-elected, that ar-
rangement would tend to improve it. The amount of debt
of this country was 2,180,0001. The debt was manifestly
ftworaer whichsmhegi
ishryayackdoi
iounbunesgeleyanr.
trecently paid off by the shipping interest
incurred in consequence of a system of improvident leases
of lighthouses—leases which were granted by Parliament,
by the Trinity-house, and by sovereigns. In former days,'
whenever a king had a favourite to provide for, and found
a difficulty in doing so, he gave him a lighttounigye
(Laughter.) In one case a gentleman got a ll,eicf
To go only as far back as the reign len, ,—" Mr.
because his wife was the daoghter of an Earl
Third, they read in the Grenville corresprilo. The king
Grenville went to London, August 13'. Mr. Gren-
received him with great good h
disr,osition, took the
villa, finding his Majesty
in a gr4s7; that there was a grant
opportunity of apprising his 3!.aPriL,,„gnter.) He humbly
of a lighthouse at his lisp
°"o,,i, upon him as a provision
Lori
sB shy: eurl ode
bk
e, tahr°lle reason as-
his Majesty to besto
nted,
(Renewed laughter.) The king
ing interest have had to pay for this ?
grant the request, and did so
no
fresh
leases
ghtliousehad been held by his
to do with that It was no doubt ex-
had the shipowners
king
to grant this liel th
Psclobefialkieirdoe auto
kindness toward
e I ouse, but why
should the slopp
to say that
, Ile was sorryas recently as 1826 a
(fear.' granted to L
ancestors for 160 years. Isaniasit:hiteesohfipthpeinrgeci
" f • t being that the li
sig„ee or George the
leasesewithml eiehtaxat:Pde er.:ebßetdaBeShi;the granted,:lntemreesnt dhaatdi°biel been
saddled with the payment of a debt of 2,186,000/. With
regard to the last point embraced in his motion, he must
say it was beneath the dignity of Parliament to allow light
dues to be levied on foreign vessels, while our own ships
were not subjected to any such imposts in return. There
had, he believed, been a sharp correspondence between the

-----
American Government and our own in . referee,
subject, and be must confess he thought the Amos
vernment had right on their side. They edttst
ships into their ports without any senablense of rig,
whereas in this country American vessels were ten,
to a paltry impost; for, after all, the aggregate wee
for the use of lights. For these reasons: he Ardet,
house would accede to his motion. He did not wisii-tn
the Trinity Board put clowie because it was an old CO:.
raeion ; but, as a seafaring man, ho felt it his duty to press
this matter on the attention of the house, believing that,
as long as the lighthouses and buoys remained uuder the
management of different independent bodies, there must
be such a want of efficiency and uniformity that they
would continue to be a disgrace to the country. Be-
lieving that the shipowners had a strong claim
to consideration, remembering that iu bringing for-
ward a former budget the Chancellor of the Exchequer
admitted that the light dues as at present levied were inde-
fensible, and that the noble lord the member for Tiverton
had supported the views of Mr. Hume on this subject, he
trusted his motion would be agreed to. The noble lord
concluded by moving the resolutions.
Mr. LINDSAY seconded the motion.
Mr. HENLEY said it was not necessary to say one word
with regard to the importance of this, subject. He was
thankful that he was relieved from many difficulties which
might have beset his course. Ho was in no way responsible
for the construction or arrangement of the present system,
except, indeed, in common with every other member of that
house. He was also relieved from the difficulty of this ques-
tion being regarded as a party question. It was within his
knowledge that the noble lord would have brought forward
his motion, and in precisely the same terms, had there been
no change of government,and therefore the motion hid to be
considered simply on its own merits. Moreover, as regarded
his own opinions on the subject, he agreed in almost every
word that the noble lord had said ; and he had often said
that in his judgment it was utterly indefensible that the
shipping interest should have been required to buy up psi.
vats rights• That point, however, might now be discussed,
inasmuch as the annuitants had all been paid off. Lid
should have been glad, indeed, if the noble lord had con-
' fined himself to the consideration of the management of the
lights, and not introduced the question who was to pay for
them, the two questions being perfectly distinct. Ail of
them had a common interest in the adoption and carrying
oat of the best system of lights that could ba discovered.
Tho noble lord had with perfect candour admitted thet all the
information in his (M,. Henley's) power had been given to
him. He had afforded every facility to the noble lord in
the way of giving information, because he considered that
it would be well if the subject wore fairly and properly
brought before the house. The noble lord had not dealt so
candidly with the question of the relative expenses of
English and French lighthouses. He had taken the ex-
penses of English lighthouses at 350,0301., instead of
20 i,0001.—( hurl C. PAGET - I stated the actual exianee at
208,0001.)—The noble lord at all events seetned always to
contrast the larger sum with the sum of 48,0001., which
was the expense of French lighthouses. The noble lord,
however, omitted at importa.ut, element of calculation. He
(Mr. Henley) believed that the French did not maintain
any " light vessels"—or at all events maintained but one.
These light vessels were a most important. item of expense.
The average annual cost of lighthouses in England was
27,000/., whilst that of light vessels amounted to 37,0031.
The not le lord did not dwell on this fact. [Lord C.
PAGET : I mentioned the exi tepee of light vessels.]
Neither did the noble lord distinguish, between mere har-
bour lights and more expensive lighthouses. In France,
according to the noble lord's statement, the average cost of
a lighthouse was 3901. per annum. In England, light-
houses were classed as first, secoud, and fourth class, and
the average cost of their maintenance was 3871. So that the
house would see when they came to actual figures that the
English system did not stand in so disadvantageous a posi-
tion as his noble friend seemed to think. The next subject
on which the noble lord touched was that of buoys. No
doubt the simple system which the noble lord advocated was,
in many respects, much to ba admired, but there were two
reasons against its adoption on the English coast. The
estuary of the Thames was in three channels ; it was
necess•try that a vessel should know which of these chan-
nels she was in, and the system of the noble lord would
not enable her to know this. The second and more im-
portant reason was this : The Thames and the other great
rivers of England were visited every year by thousands of
ships, who never had on board a pilot. The masters and
crews of those ships were able to navigate at the present
timo with safety ; if the system were changed, although
for one theoretically more perfect, the practical result
would be that these rivers could be no longer navigated as
they are at present with safety. The noble lord had also
referred to the question of reflecting lights, and complained
that the lights in many lighthouses were not upon the
most modern and improved principles. The course which
was being adopted with reg ,rd to this ma! ter was as each
set of lights wore out, they were replaced by others of im-
proved modern construction. He believed that a duo re-
gard to economy justified the pursuing of this course. The
noble lord next touched upon the question of steamboats,
which were, as he said, maintained at a very groat cost. No
doubt it would be possible for the Admiralty to furnish
boats, but the only result would be that the expenditure
would be paid by one department instead of another. He
did not know whether the Admiralty might manage the
business as cheaply as it was at present managed, but he
felt sure that it would not carry it on at a less expense.
He now came to what was, he believed, the most im-
portant portion of the noble lord's slatement, and the one
to which he (Mr. Henley) felt the most inclined to agree
with him—he meant with reference to the question of
management. Down to the year 1853 a different system
had prevailed to that now in existence. Up to that time
all light dues collected on the English coast were applied
ti English purposes, all Scotch to Scotch purposes, and all
Irish to Irish purposes. In the year 1853 Mr. Lowe made a
great change in this respect—a change which might justify
still further alterations. He threw all the light dues into
a common fund, and this made the larger amount drawn
from those parts where considerable traffic prevailed, appli-
cable to those places where less tolls were received. This
was a great improvement ; but there still remained some
defects in the power which regulated those lights. No
doubt that which the noble lord had called a double go-
vernment had some disadvantages. There was, besides
what the noble lord had referred to, a large class of lights
' also to be provided for in the colonies. The noble lord had
spoken of some sum of 400,0001. as being in his (Mr. Hen-
let 's) hands, end applicable to the extension of lighthouses.
This sum was in truth but the surplus of dues, and was an
amount upon which calls weco constantly made for the
purpose of no,intaining the lighthouses already existing.
He (Mr. Henley) quite admitted that this subject was a
very important one ; he concurred in some respects in the
views of the noble lord, but ho thought that to ask the
house at once to transfer the expenditure upon lighthouses
to the public revenue was takings step in haste, and doing
that for which as yet there was not saffice-nt ground. He,
therefere, proposed to the noble lord that he should with-
draw his motion, upon which the Government would issue
a commission to inquire into the subject. (Hear, hear.)
He thought that by this course the house would be enabled
to obtain valuable information upon the subject, and thug
be put in a position to do that which iu its wisdom it
might think fit. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LINDSAY regretted that the right hon. gentleman
had net gone a little more fully into the subject. How-
ever, in what he had sail he (Mr. Lindsay) could not
eltogother agree ; more especially ho differed from him in
his estimate of the relative expenditure of the English and
French lighthouses. From a statement which he (Mr.
Lindsay) had had access to, it appeared that the expense of
the French lights was only one-half the expense of the
Eugli-h. The right bon member had, indeed, thrown out
a suggestion that those lights were not so good as those on
the English coast. Hen. members, however, who had
crossed the Channel could judge for themselves whether or
not this ilea of the right hon. gentleman was a correct one.
With regard to the sum of 400,0001., to which the right
hon. gentleman had referred, it certainly seemed, notwith-
standing the explanation which had been given, that that
sum was applicable to the improvement and increase of
lighthouses. He had had no wish to press upon the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, who hadjust entered office, to
find a deficient exchequer, but he thought that the exist-
ence of this very sum would aid the right hon. gentle-
man in an endeavour to adopt the plan proposed in the re-
solution before them. He was most desirous that some-
thing should be done to amend the existing system o
light dues. America, France, Prussia, and even Russia
heti adopted the principle that a nation was bound to place
lighthouses on her own shores. That same principle had
been affirmed in the committee of that house which had
sat upon this question. Was it just, then, while other
countries gave us the benefit of ;their lighthouses without
charge, and whilst we admitted that, upon principle,
we ought to do so too, that we should continue to place
a tax upon foreign vessels in this respect ? And in the
result we were not one whit the better, for the toll only
increased the freight ; the increased freight was charged
to the merchant; the merchant cast it on the manufac-
turer, the manufacturer on the retailer, and the retailer on
the consumer. At every step it was increased ; and thus
we were not only no better, but actually worse off than we
should be if these lighthouses were properly and directly
supported out of the revenue. The Americans complained
loudly of the present system, under which each of their
steamers paid 62/. for light duties. Had they subjected our
vessels to a similar tax the steamers of the Cunard line
alone would have paid, in the year 1850, no less than 3,2501.
The house might be sure that the Americans felt very sore
on this subject, and thought that their ships should be
treated more on terms of equality. On the whole, he (Mr.
Lindsay) was inclined to prefer a royal commission to a
committee of inquiry.
Mr. LOWE said that all the evils complained of by the
noble lord arose out of the double government under which
the whole of our lighthouse system was placed, bet7eiettli
the Board of Trade and the Trinity-house. The proposition
of of the noble lord did not go to the abolition of tohri_ect
ma.
government, but would retain the present
to
r
topthe copse-
chinery while transferring the
*whole e'Velethat the only
lidated fund. He (Mr. Lowe)
effectual way of working the sywatge satsviould be under one
must object to the
single head, and for that reason 11.3 min
tbink it fair to call on
mo-
tion of the noble lord. He did r?!.)
a Minister of the Crown foil.
t I If the whole of our light-
res.titnates over which ho wa,
subsequently to have no col
d under the Board of Trade it
consolidated
house system were
would then be a fair aPubjeeectofuotr
ofconsideration t e
charge should be defrayed
iapposed the motion. He remem-
bered CARD wEL,-vheio it fell to their lot. to discuss this
11;net by the difficulty, that there were in bored that,
subject, theyrwt erri
of the most remote antiquity, and that
existence' charters
difficulty in dealing with the question on
there w"
,:y. since then ono corporation of groat impor-
that accolu
antiquity had voluntarily submitted to public
tance n,
and control, but with respect to the other corporations
audit ~(7, yel commission was issued. The commission extended
its inquiries over every part of the three kingdoms, and re-
commended several very important results. Not one of those
results however was carried out, and it was only in that cor-
poration which proceeded on its own voluntary motion
that any useful alterations were effested. With respect to the
speech of the noble lord, he (Mr. Cardwell) begged to say
that not one penny of the 12,0.07. which came before Mr.
Hume's committee was now levied on the shipping interest.
His hon. friend near him had compared the expenses of the
lights at Grinez and Dungeness, but he should recollect that
the report from which he quoted referred to a period ante-
rior to 145, and the noble lord opposite, whom his hon.
friend supported, had shown that now the expense at
Grinez exceeded that of the light at Dungeness. That the
English lights were well managed was proved by the single
fact that they were under the direction of Mr. Faraday ; but
furtherthan that, an American commission that had visited
Europe some years since highly eulogised the English light-
h'iuse system, and recommended its adoption in the 'United
States. The committee of 1815 had been much relied es in
support of this motion ; but the committee of 1845 had re-
commended that all the lights of the three kingdoms should
be placed under one authority, that authority to be the
Trinity-house, London. (Hear, hear.) As to handing the
control over to the Board of Trade, he objected to handing
over so much responsibility and patronage to any depart-
ment of the Government, and to transfer the expense from
local sources to the Consolidated Fend would be to ensure
a rapid increase of expense in every part of the kingdom.
There was a. committee sitting upstairs on harbours of
refuge. The proceedings of that committee were, until

`"'''''"'""--"-•'"-----."------"--''-""- etree -----p
willingness, and satisfaction to the country' His belief the employment of a short-hand writer to take notes of the
the presentation of the report, ender an was that Tribunals of Commerce would never prove satis- trials, and for whom a salary might be fixed, and he trusted i
veil. He wished he could lift that he f:TaeMoment,
factory in this country, but ho was quite free to admit that he would consider the suggestion as deserving of considera-
and see how many harbours ineetrh)e kingdom had de-
Having had the the subject had been so ventilated in commercial circles, tion.
mended five millions. (Hear, h he thought it desirable there should bo a committee ap- Mr. MALINS entirely approved of the objects of the b:11
honour of proposing the reformed.sysiem under which the
ointed to look into the entire question. For their in- proposed by his learned friend. He thought it right, how-
Trinity-house lead worked for five years he had no objet-
h proposition in vestigation he did not anticipate any useful result, but it ever, to state that the Court of Chancery had at present the
Lien to inquiry, and should support was only right that the subject should be investigated. \ power of cross-examining the witnesses vfycz voce. They
preference to a special commission. Lord JOHN RUSSELL expressed his satisfaction that were so examined by the Lords Justices when there was any
Mr. BENTINCK saidh there was one point in the noble
wobject. He could not agree the Government had given its assent to the modified pro- disputed point in question ; but some of the Vice-Chancellors
lord's motion to which e position of the hon. and learned gentleman. He thought did not act upon the power. Ile hoped provision would be
to the transference of thee lighthouses to the control of the
some good might arise from investigating the complaint made in the bill for cross-examining the witnesses in the mane
Admiralty. He hoped the noble lord would acquiesce in
of those who were engaged in the commerce- of the coup- nor suggested.
the proposal of the Board of Trade, and accept a royal
try, at the same time that he agreed with the learned Mr. M'MAHON said the speech of the rigmhbtyaththeoenp.trrgoivebniustniloaenel
commission.
Lord PA.LMERSTON said that the house ought to be Solicitor-General in his view of the efficacy of the pro- man, tbahineldiSfoohlie.icdteloctri.s.-iG3tolennsive,fraianhlo,anwl)lochulaosdpeesndoohfdeoduvrisbpothnugitdieve great satisfac-
obliged to his noble friend for bringing forward a subject loosed Tribunate of Commerce. It appearedl to him tthoatthine tiniohnis;
a so much national importance. He agreed in many England. commercial men had been too
points which had been stated by his noble friend. Since Previ 1 eg e of bring
the
superior
judges oc
of
rya
, jury,sitting nest
t Linecessarilyncei n,
B eI nin
np,a
butue Igltehdi
nep
rictnohopetue
ir.(cetteynoCnfoaturcrorihseteas:wfcaehCnrelydri aentai
nos-
the committees referred to by his noble friend an import- courts of common law,
.where. they _
ao
forpnp. ya
and
leavetdo le findatr
no thateindt
introduce
oetdnhutelceehmot
gentleman
ant change had been made in the constitution of the highly instructed and administering a code of laws which ' twhheicdhistphueytemdio.qhutesbtieendsirercetsepdechtyin
e . The hon. and learned
e bDd i
l.
gentleman
FlTZGERALDandhehhosdhoped
d movedw
Triaity-house, and he should therefore strongly mcommend had grown up during
propose andli l. e. a l' - j•dn.
him to accept the proposal made by the right hon. gentle- gentleman had said thmaatntyheag•uedges were not permitted issues,
man the President of the Board of Trade, namely, that a to dictate the law to
had
a eins , thatx consequencewu asw ti htohef
theas hh
commission should issue. He believed, notwithstanding cage, and the ruletns beenhein
oaerifdetejuries. But with regard would act upon the psuggestion thrown out by his hon, and
the improvements which had been made in the arrange. political considerations
would
doyed to take notes of the merits of the Trinity-house, that considerable economyquestions,ehbetegbflelieved that juries could not learned friend Mr. Se lat
might yet be effected in that department. In the abstract theto
commercial questions
l Deasy, and provide that a short-
very much relieve the judge, who
proceed-
there was a great deal of plausibility that the expense of do better than acce t the opinion of the judge trying the hand writer should berje
H could notp think the specfie remedy proposed ings. Such a toupee
lighthouses should be borne by the public at large instead
cause. He
likely to be adopted, but undoubtedly complaints could, by being relieved from taking notes as at present, pay
of calling upon the passing shipping to pay it, for the light-
was
one
unnaturally made that in a country like England more attention to the case,.
pore not delay was experienced in the trial of commercial Mr. MELLOR was sorry to say he could not agree in the
ing of our coast was undoubtedly a duty that belonged to
the nation rather than private individuals. Take the aria
causes. He must also consider it to be a great grievance views of his right hon, friend who had just addressed the
that London jurors should be so frequently called upon to house, with respect to. the employment. of a short-hand
logy, though it was upon a smaller scale, of lighting v.
try country causes. Probably, however, by extending and wrier to take notes solely • and he did hope that the neces-
streettticiatlhse would not large town. We did not call upon the travellers of the
improving the jurisdiction of the county courts much of city which existed for a judge taing a full note of the evi-
to pay the expense of its lighting; no, the parish
paid that ; and, reasoning by analogy, the nation ought
the evils complained of would be removed.
Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD believed that the state of the odbejneecetiionn be dispensedH with. e had no
to pay the expense of lighting the coast. On the other.
tary notes of a short-hand writer ;
band, however, until the department which was reopen
present law admitted of great improvement, and that the but he ho
11 power of hoped, whether one be employed or not, that the hon
if hie to Parliament should be vested with fu proposed committee would, in a great measure, effect that and learned .
arrangements gentleman, the Solicitor-General, would resist the
.eontrolling the expense and enforcing the. object. It was said 30 years age that their laws were the proposal to '
the o
the service, and ec - relieve the judge from the necessity of his taking
Crest adapted for the efficiency of .
it would be proms- perfection of human wisdom, but any one who witnessed a note of the evidence.
noreical performance of that service, . .
to the con- the reforms that since took place, must be surprised they The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the billwould
from the shipping not be
tore to make the transfer were allowed to continue so long. He was one of a tom- compulsory in summoning • all witnesses in cases to London
Solidated fund. se ought to have a winds- mittee that sat a few years ago on the bill which passed and should it be found to work well, provision would be mad:
Mr. WHITE thought the hon . .
he didnotquite respectieg bills of exchange, and was deli ghted at the im- hereafter for having parties •
examined in the counties wherein
teat policy, and that being leis opinion
of the right hon• gentleman the provements made on that occasion. But why should not they resided. With respect to the suggestion to ern
share the apprehensions . the same principle be extended to allwritten employ a
ht hon entleman seemed to contracts ? short-hand writer to take notes, he did not think it would
member for Oxford. The rig
.t
to. g
lace some 200,000/. And why should not many material changes •d be
think it would be a great calami y p .
in the Court of Bankruptcy_ require act well, inasmuch as after he had been all day taking notes
osal of the executive ; and yet how effected ? With res et to tri- the could not be read 'pe . . yuntil he transcribed them. (Laughte.)
of patronage at the dish .
dthe
it since the house arrive at conclusion bunals of commerce, he hadheard that they were originally Leave was given to bring in the bill, which was read a first
long ago was lndia should be handed over to adopted in Spain, from whence they spread themselves
that the vast patronage of
No later ago than last session Parliament France and all over Europe. The whole question would,
the executive? CHELSEA HOSPITAL.
250,000/. to the King of Denmark for extinguish- he believed, be advantageously sifted by the proposed corn-
votedig the Sound dues. Now the light dues on the coast were mittee, and on that account he gave the motion his cordial
farTL more oppressive and vexatious than the Sound dues, approbation.
2:nd if it was proper and judicious to extinguish the dues Col. SYKES wished to say a few words on the subject,
in the one ease, it was equally so in the other. Let it also and they would be but a few, as the motion was acceded to.
be remembered that in making the transfer to the conso- The hon. and learned gentleman (the Solicitor-General)
lidated fund they would be benefiting the consumer, and said that tribunals of commerce were the offspring of the
,carrying out the principle of direct taxation, in favour of ages of barbarism ; but he had in his hand a document,
'which the house had pronounced years ago. describing such tribunal established in Calcutta. It com-
,Mr. A. SMITH observed that the right hon. gentleman prised the whole of the details of such a tribunal, the cases
the Member for Oxford was mistaken in supposing that the which would come before it, and the judges to preside,
United States commissioners had reported in favour of the who were to be elected by the commercial community. He
English system of lighting. On the contrary, they reported believed that such tribunals were absolutely necessary in
while the that,best English light, which was inferior to this country, and should support the motion.
that of France, cost 500/. a year, that of France only cost Mr. M'AIAHON agreed with the hon. and learned gen-
-300/. Moreover, proceeding upon the French system, they Osman (the Solicitor-General) that tribunals of commerce
reported the whole of the United States coast could be were the relics of barbarous ages, and not at all suited to
lighted for 81,0001. a year, although the number of lights this country. Such tribunals in the case of insurances
far exceeded those of England, At the same time he agreed existed from the time of Elizabeth, but such was the par-
with the right hon. gentleman wheuhe said, that this mat- tiality evinced by the judges that they fell into disuse, and
wore at last discontinued. He believed it was utterly
for ought not to be placed in the hands of the Government;
but nevertheless, he should like to see the Trinity-house impossible they could give satisfaction to the people of this
thoroughly remodelled. He wished to me it made suitable country- In France, the judges of these courts were
eelected b the Crown, but such a proceeding would not
for looking after not only the lighthouses, but also many
tolerated, foe not only would their lives,
other matters connected with the mercantile marine. At furhu t e moment be
o ,laced-at its disposal. He corn-
present the eighteen brethren were self-elected, whereas theiro
of the
ro p egrrteye,t
delays
lained in the country in the ad minis-
they ought to be selected by the mercantile marine body p
tration of justice, as compared with that of London • and
from persons amongst themselves, connected with the
certainly
he thought the number of assizes ought 'to be
chipping interest. The Trinity-house would then become
considered also before that committee. He, however, cor-
e% useful department. dielly concurred in the appointment of a committee to
Mr. L. PHILLIPS protested against the. ar ument that
o gOO/. for the inquire into the whole subject.
hecaOse Parliament had agreed to pay 1,25e,0
Mr. BLAKE said it was a great satisfaction to him, as
extinction of the Sound dues, they ought to. vote anether
re resenting a commercial community, that such a motion
the light dues. If P
three or four millions for extinguishi:g was acceded to, and he had no doubt whatever but that the
f the hon. member
the house admitted the prinfceiplteo
the
consolidated
fund
greatest possible amount of good would be effected by its
for Plymouth, that the trans r appointment.
that it would benefit
should be made for the simple reason g Mr. COLLIER did not believe tribunals of commerce
light dues ; the
the consumer, they could not stop at
from lighting harmonised with the institutions of the country, but he
' ht have railways seeking to be released
was of opinion that, instead of creating new courts, they
might would then be able to carry
charges on the plea that they would do better to extend the jurisdiction of those now in
It a said a abort time ace)
}passengers se a cheaper rate. wa
the office existence. He thought that if they improved the juria-
ntleman who then tilled f
bY a right b°°' r; dictiondiction of the Courts of Assize and the County Courts, it
Chancellor of the Exohequer, that the clangor to the public
• would confer immense benefit • but as an inquiry would
from the useful projects of benevolent inch-
finance arose dgreat dealofgoodonall '
o a
.. these subjects, and throw
, and unless a check was put upon their efforts to .
light upon many things requiring reform, he should sup-
saddle their schemes upon the consolidated fund, the con-
ort the motion.
soli a •ti ted fund would cease to be consolidated. It would P
Mr. BUCHANAN denied that tribunals of commerce
In the words of Hamlet,
"Thaw and dissolve itself into a
were the relics of barbarous
laugh.) times, and from his know-
A.
Mr. COWAN said the Northern Light Commissioners
de w. (
ledge of the working of one in Hamburg, he could say that
they were of the greatest value. The greatest benefit de-
bt.' long given satisfaction to the commercial interest in rived from such tribunals was a speedy decision, an I be-
Scotland ; but since the commissioners had been placed
cause they prevented serious and mischievous litigation
under the Board of Trade, their proceedings had not been He would suggest, if they were to be adopted in this
co satisfactory. Their plans were set aside for others in-
ountry, that merchants should be associated with the
ferior, and which cost double the amount in carrying out. 9
Mr. J. E WAR r could not agree with the noble lord in judges, in order to give them the benefit of their mercan-
asking that the whole charge should bo thrown on the tile experience.
consolidated fund. The lighting system pressed heaviest Mr. HORSFALL thanked the hon. member for the'
upon the coasting trade, and he would therefore suggest Tower Hamlets for the manner in which lie had brought
that the coal dues amounting to 60,( 00/. only, should be forward this motion; for although he was personally not
transferred from the shipping to the consolidated fund, very sanguine as to the advantages to arise from the estab-
lishing of tribunals, many of his constituents took a dif-
(Hear, hear,)
ferent view of the matter; and as an inquiry by a select
Lord C. PAGET said, after the assurance of the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade, he would not press his motion. committee could not fail to be of advantage, he was glad
to find that the hon. and learned Solicitor-General hal
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
agreed to the appointment of a committee on the question.
TRIBUNALS OF COMMERCE. There were many things which appeared very beautiful in
Mr,AYRTON in moving for a select committee to iu- theory which • •
turned out very different in
practice,
and
quire respecting the expediency of establishing tribunals this
Thera might be one of them. •
era was one point that had
of commerce, and otherwise improving the mode of pro- not been clearly stated—viz., whether the members of
oedure in actions and suits of a commercial nature—said these tribunals were to be paid or not, and the answer to
a large body of commercial men in the city of London that would have a very atur I influenceon
conceived that the present mode of administering justice question. It was saidthatnthesae tribunals
in commercial cases was dilatory and unsatisfactory. I ; werebut therenecessary
- n or the speedy settlement of differences was
foreign countries these matters had been adjudicated by now in existence a mode of obtaining such a speedy settle-
tribunals of commerce, and he thought it was worthy the meat, where the parties wished it, by referring the matter
couoideration of the house whether the practice of foreign in dispute to arbitration instead of goine, into court. Iu
countries in this respect might not be imitated with advau- the course of the discussion Liverpool had been alluded to
tage. In important commercial cases in London they must as an example of the evils arising from the delay in the
be tried by special juries, and some months must elapse administration of justice, but he must state that they had
before a case can ba tried. When a judge tries such a four courts in the year, in which justice was as speedily
u.see he reserves certain points and decides others. It was administered as could bo well desired, and he agreed with
no affront to judges to say that they were not as good the hon. and learned member for Plymouth that if this
judges of commercial documents as those who were familiar kind of business could be engrafted on the present jurie-
with commercial dealings. It was a very serious ques- diction of the County Courts, it would meet all the re-
tic,n whether the administration of justice in commercial
quirements of the country.
sages might not be improved. (Hear, hear,) Persons Mr. AYRTON briefly replied, and
generally who litigated preferred having their cases tried The motion for the appointment of a select committee
in London instead of the country. But was that satiefao- was then agreed to.
tory to those who were compelled to sit as jurors without
COURT OF CHANCERY PROCEDURE.
any compensation ? He found that where there were
1,248 causes tried in the metropolis, there were 1,110 tried The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he would endeavour
in the country. He found that in causes for sums above in a very few words to explain the object of a bill which
201. and under 501., out of 4,000 there were 400 tried in he asked the leave of the house to introduce, entitled the
the metropolis ; and in causes for sums above 50/. more Court of Chancery Procedure Bill. In the course of the
than half the number were tried in London. The hon. debate which had just terminated he had been struck with
end learned member referred to cases for the purpose of the remark of his hon. and learned friend, the member for
showing the increased expense to which a suitor who lived Eunis, as to the serious evils arising from the present de•
in the country was put by the trial taking place in London. fective state of the law of bankruptcy, and the manner in
Arbitration was generally a compulsory course, and was which suitors, after having gone to one court fur redress,
the beginning of a new snit, when, to be of value, arbitra- were afterwards compelled to go to another fur a supple-
tion should be resorted to in the first instance. Evidence inentary remedy. (Cheers.) He trusted that in the course
bad been given to prove that merchants sometimes gave up of a few days a bill would be presented in one of the
accounts fur the purpose of closing their books rather than houses of Parliament by which the defective
the bill
bankrupt
wait the delay of a trial or have a trial at all. In France law would be amend d—(cheers)— rid he hoped
asked 1s e leave to would a tribunal such as he contended for had jurisdiction in ho now a e introduce 3
be found to go far
ell cases such as those to which he was alluding. In Eug. to prevent these double suits in order to b •
land, with the exception of Liverpool, there was no such mental remedies. The
ef
theh.lo tam supple-
mown object I was to enable ,
tribunal, and he saw no reason why other towns should the suitor to obtain iu court all the relief
nut have such tribunals as well as Liverpool. The hon. was entitled. The Courtneof t to which ha
Chancery a present. gave re-
member concluded by moving for a select committee to lief in the case of breach of contract by restraining any
inquire respecting the expediency of establishing tribunals future breach ; but it could not now t
give any remedy fur
-of commerce, or for otherwise improving the aelministra- breaches in times past, and to obtain that remedy the suitor
aiun of justice in commercial disputes. was obliged to resort to a Court of Common Law. So also
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL admitted the great im- w:th respect to actions for the performance of specific
port:taco of the question brought forward by the hon. and agreements. The Court of Chancery could decree that these
learned gentleman, and desired briefly to state his reasons specific agreements should be carried out in fature, but
for offering no opposition to the motion, and generally his could not give damages for past breaches up to the time
views of the case, especially with reference to the estab- at which it decreed relief. The Courts of Common Law
liehment in this country of Tribunals of Commerce. The hal now in these cases complete jurisdiction, and what he
title was, no doubt, an attractive one, and they probably proposed by the present bill was that the Court of Chan-
benefits would be conferred upon the eery should in future have similar complete
freei
might suppose that
commercial world by institutions of the kind ; but they (hear, hear) -and that suitors might be left in all cases
must not be led away by names however attractive. It to choose whether they would go to the courts of common
should not be forgotten that they
had established in this ' l.sw or to the Court of Chancery, with the knowledge that
country a most successful improvements in their courts. in both cases they would be able to obtain complete relief.
They had introduced county courts, giving them consider- That was the first object of the bill. The second was a con-
able jurisdiction. That they were successful no man could responding, though somewhat different one, namely, to ob-
for one moment doubt, and that they had established a vista the defects now existing in the practice of the Court of
speedy and cheap mods of administering justice was equally Chancery in trying questions of fact. It would be retnern-
indisputable. They had modified the courts of common bared that in 1852 the mode of taking evidence in the Court
law, and made their proceedings as speedy as he thought of Chancery was very materially alters '. Previous to that
could well be done, consistently with doing justice to the time the practice was to take all the evidence by means of
parties engaged. Latterly they passed an act on the sub- depositions, and all the parties were examined in private,
sleet of bills of exchange. All these three different classes of and without being confronted with their opponents. That
measures had occupied the attention of the Legislature had been altered, and at present there was a system of
with the view of reducing delay in judicial proceedings viva voce examination, not before the judge who had to
steel he believed that delay had beau reduced to the try the case, and who would therefore be able to form an
timeliest possible amount; but if it could be shown that opinion as to the character and the demeanour of the wit-
the period could be further lessened, he should gladly ran- nessee, but before an examiner. That was no doubt, so far as
der all the assistance in his power to accomplish that ob- it went, an improvement upon the ' previous system, but
ject. Was the Tribunal of Commerce proposed to be in- there were numerous and grave complaints as to the very
et i tilted to be a court of appeal, or a court without appeal ? serious evils to which it gave rise. In the first place, the
If it was to be a court without appeal, when, as the hon. judo who had to try the case never saw the witnesses, and
au 1 learned gentleman suggested, causes would be decided had still to rely on written depositions. In the next, the
iu 24 hours, then in his (the Solicitor-General's) opinion it examiner had no discretionary power as to the evidence he
would not enjoy the confidence of the pub 1 e or of the mud receive. Parties might come forward and say what
persons involved in the cause under its judicial cognisance, they pleased, relevant or irrelevant, and the consequence'
but if it were to be a court of appeal, where execution was, that when the depositions came into court, they had
would be suspended, and the case brought to other courts to go through piles upon piles of paper, which he was sur
for final judgment, then why not go to the higher would frighten any hon. member who had never seen theme
courts in the lint instance i The hon. and learned gentle- --(hear, hear)—and to wale through page after page l
•n
man had objected to the mode in which mercantile order to get at a simple fact, which
might have been
cases were handled in this country.. He was dissatisfied, stated iu a tenth of the time, and at a tenth of the ex-
that while the facts wore left to the jury, the judge should pause. (Hear, hear.) The Court of Chancery, under the
take the question of law and place his construction upon existing system, could not chock this prolixity and unneces-
the bearing of some document which had been made evi- nary expense ; nor could it, without seeing the witnesses
demo, in the course of the hearing, while the Tribunals of personally, judge as to whether they were speaking truth
Commerce, they were told, decided questions of fact and or falsehood. Now, in cases of action for breach of
springing out of a coin- contract, or the performance of specific agreements,
law. But why should a document,
cuniary damages were almost always at
inertial case be treated differently to any document arising issue, and in the
out of, or connected with any other description of case. common law courts it was found that the moat effective
uriepru- method of settling any such questions was to refer them
Any innovation of that kind on their system of j
dance must be eminently unsatisfactory ; and he felt quite to a jury. He proposed that the Court of Chancery should
satisfied that the house would not for one moment enter- in such cases have the power of ceiling in a jury, and
Ciu an proposition of the sort. Tribune's of Commerce, thus at once speedily, satisfactorily, economically, and
y p
he Might permitted to say, sprang out of a state of completely settle all the questions
the of fact at
issue.
things much less enlightened than that existing at present. (Hear, hear.) He did not propose, in first nstance,
They were institutions of the remote state of the barberian that this measure should be compulsory. He would leave
age., and very far inferior to those we enjoyed. He ad- it, in the first instance, to the discretion of the court ; and
emitted the justice of the complaint male b the lion and if it should be found in the course of time-as he bored
learned member and he admitted ity most 't. it would be-"a successful experiment, he trusted it would
was a
usethat
when one encourage them to make still further improvements in the
court they were frequently handed and pioCe
• dure of the Court of Chancery, and to
ferred from law to . over to another trans- practice
au
the demeanour of the witnesses.
Le doubt, a serious equity and from equity to law. It was, enable the judge to s
saying
• no hesitation in that the b.ll
10 1..
but ,
e.
%, blot on our system of jurisprudence, Mr. HEADLAM had
. " happy to state jurisdiction to the Court of Ciro'.
leave, that evenint, that he intended aeking, fur would give a very valuable
..
t t• of justice. '
remedy some of
oft; ttgntroduce a bill which would go to eery, and greatly improve the adunnis ra iv , lt
0: h w complaint which evilsthe haend mischiefs of the system. Au- eras impossible to over-cstiumte the advarif ag s o suitors of
was, that an unfair amount,
hon. and La•ned member made having a complete remedy in one court. I a jury wit the
Loudon jurymen, who
had
too.f work was thrown on the best means of deciding in eases, tlici•e was no reason why
but country gases. rhi,,h,,ppentazestigate not only London that tribunal should be confined to a court of comiu in law,
opened a greater number of days because the courts He wished that in all cases in the Court of Chancery the exa-
werelocal courts, partly because they were presided
tee assize or mivations of the witnesses should be taken viva voce before
jud 4es eminent for their skill and the ''esided over by the judge in the earns manner that they were now taken be-
in which they administered the law, and satisfactorya ;manner fore a jury in courts of common law. It was quite certain
the skill, intelligence, and competency partly
yh fromt that the decisions in the Court of Chancery were not, ill all
J themselves brought to bear on the die-' cii es satisfactory. and he hoped his hon. and learned friend the
charge of their duties. They could not expect greater Solicitor-General would extend his bill, and make a provision
speed in the hearing of commercial causes nuess they h (1
for the examin
a of Chancery.
ation of witnesses by the judges in the Court
le,tabilished a greater number of courts in the country. sees. se e
Were the proposed Tribunals of Commerce to be paid or to
England,
DEASY hoped th t bill would net be confined
unpaid ? Did the hon. and learned gentleman think that Attorney-General
ithf,,at the hon. and learned gentleman, or the
l'arliisment would sanction the appointment of a new staff bill, for that country.
Ireland,,.‘ would introduce it, or a similar
throughout the length and breadth of the country ? Fos witnesses in the Ceuyr.t of Chanceryt i present, the system of examinng
Abe proposal was that those tribunals should be established live and unsatisfactory, nod.he hoped
of Ireland was most defec-
Vfhereier commerce was carried on. Such an orgauisation ing• them by the judge and beforieepe.d the power of examin-
Would entail a serious snout of expense. If the tribunals to the judges of the Court of ChajnacryeiW,?l;l4 be extended
Wore'not paid, how could they expect that persons would thought it would be a great improvement7iainthelreland. lie
di4clearge the duties appertaining to the tribunals with lion, and learned eentlemau would make . bill, if the
provisions in it for

Lord J. MANNERS obtained leave to bring iu a bill to
confirm a contract for a sale by the Commissioners of her
Majesty's Works of certain lands to the Commissioners of
Chelsea Hospital, which was read a first time.

TELEGRAPHIC COMMUNICATION WITH THE EAST.
Sir H. RAWLINSON moved an address for copies or ex-
tracts of correspondence that may have passed between her
Britannic Majesty's embassy at Constantinople and the Fo-
reign-office, during the last six months, ou the subject of the
establishment of a line of telegraph between Constantinople
and Bassorab. The hon. member said he had intended, iu
moving for papers on the subject of telegraphic communica-
tion between England and India, to make a few observations
on the general character of the arrangements, more particu-
larly with regard to the lino of communication through Tur-
key, but at that late hour of the evening ho would not tres-
pass on the patience of the house ; and as he found that the
subject was to be brought before the house on another mo-
tion, he would reserve his observations for that occasion. He
would only observe at present that the object of his remarks
would be to show that the telegraphic communication be-
tween England and India, via Egypt and the Red Sea, would
be ♦ery difficult, not to say impracticable, while on the other
hand telegraphic communication with India via Asiatic Tur-
key and the Persian Coast, might with the exercise of tole-
rable skill and care, be carried through successfully within a
very short time.
The motion was then agreed to.
FIRE INSURANCE.

On the motion of Mr. GREER, a returi was ordered of all
sums paid into the Inland Revenne Office in Great Britain
and Ireland, for duty on insurances against fire, for the
quarters ending severally the 25th day of March, the 24th
day of June, the 29th day of September, and the 25th day
of December, 1857 (in sontinu .tion of Parliamentary Paper,
No. 142, of session 2, 1857).
IRISH BILLS.

Lord NAAS proposed to adjoura the committee on the
Clerks of Petty Seisions (Ireland) Bill until the 26th of tkis
month. He could not agree to the Medical Charities (Ire-
land) Act Amendment Bill, and would not, therefo, e, pledge
the Government to it. The same observation applied to the
Grand Julies (Ireland) Bill, he thought it was a good mea-
sure, and hoped it would go into committee to be amended.
Mr. J. D. FoITZGERALD said that, under these circum-
stances, he would move that the orders of the day in refer-
ence to the Medical Charities (Ireland) Bill and the Grand
Juries (Ireland) 8.11, be discharged.
Lord NAAS intended to bring in a bill, in a few days, in
reference to the clerk ,a's`l• sessions.
The other orders of thc,.., ~ty were then disposed of, and the
louse adjourned at eleven o'clock.

11E R MAJESTY'S THEATRE.
Third appearance of Madlle. Titiens.
SECOND APPEARANCE OF MADLLE. POCCHINI.
LES HUGUENOTS.

TO-MORROW (THURSDAY), April 17, will be repeated
Moyerbeer's Grand Opera,

GLI UGO:s;OTTT.
DRAMATIS PERSON £.

I 1 Conte di San Brig (Governor
of the Louvre)
Conte di Nevcrs Signor ALDIGHIERI.
De Cosse Signor NIERCURIALI.
Tavannes
De Retz
Meru
Head of Night Watch
Raul di Nangis (a Huguenot
Gentleman) Signor GIUGLINI.
Marcell° (his Servant)
Margaritta di Valois (betrothed
to Henry I V,)
Urbane (her Page) Mdme. LUCIONI LANDI.
Dare* d'Onore
Valentina (d:ughter of San Brie) Madlle. TITIENS,
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Court, Pages, Citizens, Soldiers,
Students, Night Watch, Monks, Musicians, ct c.
Conductor, Signor ADRITI.

With scenery, entirely new and original, by Mr. Marshall ;
dresses, entirely new and taken front the best authorities, by
Madame Copore, and executed by M. Liureys and Mrs.
Nfasterman ; principal machinist, Mr. Slomau ; head of the
property department. Mr. Bradwell ; the miss-en-scene and
incidental ballet, by M. Massot.
To conclude with a new Ballet Divertissement, by M.
Massot, entitled
CALIST ); OU, LE RENVOI DE L'AMOUR.
The principal parts by Madlles. Pocchini, Annetta, Pas-
quale, Morlacchi, Bioletti, F. Brown, La Petite Philipe,
and M. C iron.
On TUESDAY, April 20, Mdlle. PICCOLOMINI will ratite
her first appearance this season as Norina, in Donizotti's
Opera of DON PASQUALE, and shortly afterwards i❑
LUISA MILLER.
A limited number of Boxes have been secured to the public.
Price 21s and 31s 6d each.

The full prospectus of the season arfaipments may be bad
at the Box Office.
To commence at half-past 7 o'clock.

THEATRE ROYAL, HAYMARKET.
Lessee—Mr. J. B. Buckstone.
THIS EVENING, April IG, will be performed• AN
UNEQUAL MATCH. Characters by Messrs. Buckstone,
Chipendale, Compton, W. Farren, Rogers, Clark, and Miss
A. Sedgwick, Mrs. B. White, Miss Lavine, and Mrs. J. Fitz-
wilham.

After which a C:assical Extravagaium, entitled PLUTO
AND PROSERPINE.
Concluding with MY HUSBAND'S GHOST.
irchostra Stall (which may be retained the whole of the
evening), 6s, each. (No charge for booking.)
First Price, s. d, Second price. s.
Dress Boxes ................ 5 0 Dress Boxes 3 0
I7oPer B"es ........... 3 0 Upper Boxes 2
P t 2 0 Pit 1 0
Gallery ..................... 1 0 Gallery 0 6
Commence at Seven.

ft" APLro„r' It
or,
I Nie EeShS'lSs THEATRE.
THIS EVENING will be presented the now farc3 entitled
THE STOCK EXCHANGE ; or, The Green Business.
After which, will be revived FAUST AND MARGUE-
RITE. Me dbistophiles, Mr. C. Kean.
To conclude with the now farce, entitle I SAMUEL IN
SEARCH OF HIMSELF.

THEATRE ROYAL, ADELPHI.
Lessoe—Mr. Bea. Webster.
THIS EVEXING will be presented the drama of
THE POOR STROLLERS, in which Madame Celeste, Mr,
B. Web3t3r, Paul Bedford, and Mr. Wright will perform.
After which, a new operatic spectacle, THE CALIPH
OF BAGDAD. The characters by Mr. Rolfe, Paul Bedford,
J. Bland, and Misses Rolm, Keeley, and Arden.

rIANTERBIJ RY HALL, Westminster-road.—
t.)O PEN EVERY EVENING.—The follow-
In; company of Vocalists are engaged for the performance of
Silections from all the popular OPERAS, MADRIGALS,
CII ORUS ES, GLEES, D UETS, &c., viz. : —Miss Russell, Mrs.
Badzey, Nliaa Brutioll, Miss Ray, Madame Lartoletti, and
Mi,s Montague; Herr F. Jonghtuan, Mr. Renshaw, S. lonec,
J. Barker, W. Melling, Senor Antonio, E. L. llhne, Mr.
Badzey, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Bell, and Sir. Bernard ; Messrs. T.
Maclagan, W. T. Critelifleld, John G. Fordo, and E. Hackney.
Piano'orte, Mr. Cecil Hicks ; harmonium, Master Williams ;
Director, Herr F. Jou,glnans. Commence at Seven o'clock
precisely. Suppers, dte. , until twelve o'clock.

Mr. AUGUSTUS BRAHAM will appear every Evening.
Mr. WOODHOUSE (by permission of Oh rice Kean, Esq )
will have the honour of introducing, every evening, his
highly successful Performance on the Row REGULATION
DRUM.

THE WEATHER—SON OFFICE, APRIL 16.
THERMOMETER, IN TEIE SHADE.
C6—highest since noon yesterday.
53—lowest this morning and during the night,
61—this clay at noon--the highest this season.
BAROMETER, 29.98,
WIND, S.W. ; light, with fine warm sunshiny weather.

)

LONDON, FRIDAY, APRIL 16, 1858.

The Palmerstonian organs are becoming per-
fectly rabid on the subject of Lord JOHN RussELL's
interference respecting the Government of India
&Fs. If we are to believe either the Times or
Post, the No'ile Lord was the Deus ex machin