The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-11 00:00:00

would admit into the House of Commons some artisans
and poor men, for ha should like to see in that house
representatives of all classes, and there was not &greater
mistake than to suppose, in respect to the Chartists, or
any particular class of men, that it was desirable to ex-
clude them from the House of Commons. On the con-
trary, he thought that there would be great, safety in
admitting to that assembly men of all classes. Ile did
not think that any fear used be entertained of increased
corruption in the House of Commons b cionsequence of
the abolition of the property qualification. Such poor
men as might be introduced into Parliament through the
instrurnentality of the present measure would be found,
be had no doubt, much more honest and independent
than some Of those speculative poi&cians who got them-
selves returned for the purpose of supporting any Govern-
went from whom they might obtain advantages either
for themselves or for their friends. (Hear.) He supported
the bill, therefore, because he believed it to be a moral
measure, because it would effect 'au improvement of a
really useful end substantial character, and because the
xistiug law, to use the words of a learned judge, was
"a mockery, a delusion, and a snare." (Hear, hear.)
Earl GRAN VlLLE—Without wishing or intending
to trouble your lordships with many observations, I may
be permitted to say that the bill before us bas not only
my concurrence, but the concurrence of those noble lords
with whom I have the pleasure of acting in public life.
(Hear.) I feel that I should be merely wasting the time
of the house if I were to repeat the arguments which
have been advanced in favour of the present measure.
The noble earl who spoke second in the debate did not
object to the bill in itself, while the slight reasons stated
by the noble duke opposite, the only person who has ex-
pr, seed any decided opposition to the measure, have been
sufficiently answered by the speeches already made on
the other side of the sue.tion. I cannot admit that we
ought not to pass this hill on account of the probable
introduction next session of a large and comprehensive
measure of -Parliamentary reform. Considering that
every Government which has existed during the last 20
years has virtually admitted that the representation
requires amendment, I do not think we oan .remaix
much longer where we are ; but when we are asked to
resist small measure; on the ground that a large and
comprehensive measure may be introduced, we are bound
to consider what chances there are of such a measure
being pa,sed. That object, as it appears to me, can be
obtained in only two ways. The first is, that the lead-
ing statesmen and politicians of the country should con-
cur in seine measure of reform. Now, lam afraid that
there is little chance of such an agreement, except by the
ordinary means of Parliamentary di-eussion; and, though
it might be-destrable to have the general concurrence of
prominent statesmen in a measure of reform, I am act
sure that the jeaiouq of the nation would not. be excited
if political leaders were to set le, as it were out of court,
what changes should be introduced into our representa-
tive system. (Rear.) I cannot, therefore, regard that
plan as one likely to be c,..rried into effect. The other
way iu which a great measure of Parliamentary reform
may be passed is, either that a strong Government should
undertake to push it through, or that there ebould be a
general expression of public opinion on the subject.
Now, without meaning any disrespect to noble !elide
opposite, I must say that the position which they hold
at the present moment, ehatever may be the case here-
after, is not such as to enable them to carry whatever
measure the-y might consider sound and beneficial, or
succeeefully to resist in the House of Commons any pre-
position which they might deem injurious and unsafe. I
am bound to admit, at the same time, that some portion
of their weakness has been communicated to the other
parties in the State, and that at the present moment we
cannot calculate upon the formation of a Government
strong enough to carry by its own unaided vigour a large
and comprehensive measure of reform. Nor does it seem
to me that the public generally are much interested in
the question. There is no excitement anywhere, and I
sincerely believe that the feeling of the country is not
such as to overcome all the difficulties and obstacles
which exist to the passing of a really great measure. I
think the members of the House of Commons personally
are disposed to say—
" -- better bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of."
while the constituencies, being naturally ratiefied with
their present position, are not particularly anxious for
tha introduction of extensive alterations into our tepre-
Rentative system. At the same time, I feel certain that if
we were to stand perfectly still--above all, if we were to
put our.,,elves in opposition to such reforms as could be
shown to ho reasonable and desirable— we_ should
immediately have a strong and overwhelming public
opinion, not directed to a measure full of checks and
balances such as has been described to us, but capable
of being wielded in favour of a wild and dangerous
scheme. For this reason I thick it would be prudent
fur us, whenever bills like the present come under our
consideration, not to put them off with souse' vague
notion that a larger and more comprehensive measure
may be preposed, but to consider carefnlly whetheithey
are ca'culated to improve our it stitutions, and to per-
fect that representative system which I believe even now
he superior to what exists in many other countries, but
which, I think, requires considerable change and modi-
fication to meet the progressive increase in wealth and
enlightenment of different classes of the community.
While giving my vote in favour of the present bill, I
shall equally deem it my duty to support other measures
that may come before us, provided they seem likely to
promote the public good. (Hear, hear.)
Lord CAMPBELL had always thought that the pro-
perty qualification was inexpedient, and therefore be
should vote fur the protect bill. Let Parliament look
to the qualification of the electors, and then the elected
could be found to be fitting representatives of the coun-
try. No inconvenience had arisen in Scotland from the
want of a property qualification, and the Scotch mem-
bers bad nothing to tear from a comparisoe, in point of
station and respectability, with their English or Irish
brethren. He would support this bill, and he hoped it
would be the precursor cf many other measures for the
improvement of the representation of the people.
(Hear, hear )
The bill was then read a second time.
SALE OF POISONS BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill, and the
clauses were agreed to with some verbal amendments.
MUNICIPAL FRANCHISE lIILL.
Lord AI3INGER moved the second reading of this
bill, which he said was intended to remedy an anomaly
in the existing law, whereby occupiers of houses valued
at 61. per year possessed the right of voting at municipal
elections, while occupiers of houses valued between 61.
and 201. were unable to do so.
After a few observations from the Earl of DONOUGH-
MORE, the bill was read a second time.
COMPENSATION IN THE CASE OF THE
CAGLIARI.
The Earl of AIRLIE asked the noble earl the Secre-
tary for Foreign Aflairs whether a final answer had
yet been returned by the 'Neapolitan Government to the
demand which had been addressed to it by her Majesty's
Government for compensation on behalf! of the engi-
neers Park and Watt
The Earl of MALMESBITRY said that no final
answer had as yet reached him upon the subject, but
that he hoped to receive one in the course of next week.
Their lordships then adjourned at ten minutes to
eight o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at font o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.
Sir E. B. LYTTON toJk the oaths and his seat, on
his re-election for Hertford.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The East Suffolk, Yarmouth, and Iladdiacoe and
Lowestoft and Beccies Railway Companies Amalgama-
tion Bills were read a third time.
The Carron Railway Bill was withdrawn.
THE MILITIA.
Mr. C. LEIGH asked the Secretary of State for War
if any order had been issued by the war department re-
stricting the paymasters of embodied militia regiments
from paying to the men the full amount of bounty due to
them at the expiration of each quarter in the aggregate sum
of se. to which they were entitled, and instructing
them to make the payment only by instalments of
2d. per day during the 30 days next ensuing I
Gen. PEEL said no alterations bad been made
in the regulation of Nov., 1857, which made it optional
with the colonel of the regiment to pay it in one sum or
by instalments. The regulation was made on the repre-
sentation of several colonels tbagtawbenthteomdreunnwkeen.ro
paid the ss. in full many of them ye way
11080.

POOR LAW MEDICAL OFFICERS.
Mr. S. BOOTH asked the President of the Poor Law
Board whether he intended, during the present session,
to introduce any measure with the view of providing a
remedy for the grievances of the poor law medical
officers I
Mr. S. ESTCOURT said he was aware the present
state of tbe medical relief was not in a satisfactory stets.
lie hoped before the end of the session to be able to lay
a bill on the table for the consideration of members and
the public during the recess.

- PUBLIC-HOUSES (SCOTLAND). 9
Mr. COWAN asked Viscount Melgund if be intended
to move for a select committee to inquire into the ope-
ration of the Public-houses Act (Scotland) during the
present session • and, if so, when he intended to submit
his mo ion to the house ?

Viscount MELGUND said be intended to bring the
subject forward on the 6th July.

THE ARMY AND NAVY.
Sir C. NAPIER gave notice that he should to.
morrow, on the motion for adjournment, ask the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer if it wail his intention to ask for
additional voted of seaen and marines, ha consequence
of the vast preparations ma kisgEurope both by sea
and land, and if he intended to call out the Be-
ber of militia for home duty as the men of thea .line sent
to India.

In
anßswEcSrltGoNaAciTLOtiNon Of
rFO
naM R
Mr.
.111300
vVyABI: D
Mr. S. FITZGERA.LD said the Government had re-
.
calved no official information of the particular circum-
stances of disrespect to the Grand Duke and Grand
Duchess of Tuscany, on the part of Mr. Howard, re-
ferred to. \Vhen Mr. Howard left England, he was
Paid the usual sum for his expenses, but, on bis resigna-
tion ho repaid it into the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.)
i e
Lord Normanhy had been instruiontwedartdofeetpliat
ne cu this
cirr;
curnstances under which Mr. j
to leave Florence'

PROCEEDINGS AGAINST FATHERS COICV7Ay

AND RYAN

Lora J. BROWNE asked the Attorner_Generd
for Ireland whether the Government were, going to
take auy more proceedings against the %M. Mr.
Conway and the Rev. Mr. Ryan ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRV.LAND to