The Sun.
London, England, 1803-03-10 00:00:00

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.4- doubt, if requested on such an occasion, they were
4it sacrificersviti.ch would:be cheerfollyttliade ; but here
1/ he begged it to be undetstood, that all which was
stared:in His Majesty's Message had reference to a
system of Defence,and was only matter of Precaution.
He:was sanguine enough to hope, that, on this day,
the House would give proof of an unanimous deter-
mination to enable His Majesty to adopt such mea-
sures as were essential to the true interests of the
Country. He should not propose to convey the
sentiments of the House in terms by which any in-
dividual should he pledged, or committed, to any
future measure; or by which the discretion of Par-
liament should be pre-engaged; but he trusted, that
Whatever Gentlemen's sentiments migbt.be on some
01. the measures of Government, either on the Terms
ot,the Peace, or the supposed advantages of a state
of War, yet that all would concur in supporting
the Motion he should have the honour of submitting
to the House, the substance of. which was to assure
His Majesty, that he may rely on his 'Parliament
in sappfitting
.His Majesty in such measures as may
be necessary fur the honour of his Crown and the
essential interests of his People. He then moved
an Address to the following substance, " That an
Bumble Address be presented to His Majesty, to
tilAok is Majesty for his most .gracious Message ;
to assure His Majesty, that his faithful Commtins
are,4,.imPtessed with' a full sense of this fresh proof
11s14ajesty's unceasing attention to the wel.
Ara of his People ; that under the present circurn.
!Levees, they could not hesitate to concur with His
.alsiesty in thinking it expedie nt/o adopt additional
"falls*f preeautiOn for the security' of :his Do.
ainions l'that though the preparations to which His
'l4a,lesty referred were avowedly direded to Colo.
Savice,' yet as discussions of great importance
were still 'subsisting between His Majesty and the
French Government, the result Of which might be
t neertain, that they partake of his earnest and' un.
"frit* solicitude for the continuance of Peace,
ltd that His Majesty might rely with confidence on
144 exertions to enable His Majesty to adopt -such
eheasureit as circumstances night require, for sup.
Porting the honour of. his Crown and the essential
interests of his People."
This Address being read, and the question put,
itir• FOX said, that no vote hail ever been given
on any occasion; and particularly by'hins, in 'such
compleat and utter darkness as that which was now
proposed. To thank His Majesty for his gracious
Communication—to concur with him in the support
tif, the Honour of his Crown, and the essential in-
terests of his People, were prdpositiani which it
was morally impossible to oppose. The Message
stated two grounds : firSt, the ground of the Anna,
rnent in France and Holland : this was matter of
fad capable of proof, and therefore must be sup.
Posed to be correEtly stated. The next was the
ground of Disi.ussion.;, and 'here he was entitled to
avail himself of what had been said by the Right
Hon. Gentleman in the opening of this subjed to
She noose, whidi vas, that tie Address did not
pledge the House to any thing. His 'Majesty stated
there were Subjeds of discOssion. He did not give
to the House the remotest hint what they might be,
'whether 'in tetdpe, Assia, Africa or. America ;
tspon no part oj whirh 4.J he Piire any
urhatever ,must assume, that whatever he
-stared to ae of fttspertance was of importance ; but
be had no means of forming his opinion upon it ;
be was left in a state of entire darkness; That he
11435 ready to thank' His Majesty for-his gracious
ehlrnunication, and was ready to join in any tnea.
surer which might be necessary to support the Dig.
Lily of the Crown, and promote the 'Welfare of
the People, tvere 'propositions in this Address to
which he gave his assent most readily ; but not
farther, without some information. Haviog said this,
Le would add,shat any one who would carefully exa.
Mine the present state of the British EmOire, would
feel there never was a period. in Which it was so
essential this Country to avoid the Calamities of
war as. the present, and, therefore, if we were in.
• volved in Vas 'by any fault' of Ministers, they
would be move guilty than any other Advisers or
Counsellors of this or any other Count:3i. •
Lord HA WrE.,SI3URY-said it would not be tie.
cessary for him to trouble the Hthise Lang upon the
preSent occasion, be shoold therefore say but a very
few words. In one p,art of his *Speech, the Hon.
(,;entlernan who spokelast had rather.misapprehend-
ed his Right Hon. Ft-lend. "Ife nieunt; its the two
objeds he had stated, that of the preparations of
Armaments in-the ports of France anti Holland, and:
the D.iscussion, remaining between His Majesty and
G
the OVeirlaiiint iifFrance, Thel-Icin. Gentleman
seemed to think his Right. Hon.,Vriep4, had stated,
that one of these grounds was only fit ground for
this'AddreSs, 'whereas what his Right_ Htm..Ftiend
had said was this, that one of these. graunds was..
sufficient 'fin- the circomspedion and vigilance',ol
Government, but that. both .combined,that. was,
the Preparations and the Discussion, called for some.
thing more, and required that Ministers should advise.
His Majesty, to send; the resent Nessage to the
House, and to secure that caution and that vigilance.
As to what the Hon.- Gentleman had, said upon the
Address, in the latter part of his Speech, he agreed-
with--'him, that the Address did, not pledge or
commit the House to any thing. As .to the subjeet
421 Discussion which might at present be subsisting
oettveenliis Majesty and the French Government,'
Ile Would repeat is hat'hiSitiglit 06. i. Viiend had
already stated : if this discussion should lead to
Yvarr, it would be the duty_ of Government to lay
b_elose the I louse all the. Information it.coold, as to' causes Of tilt War and the.consludoftMinisters ;
t;e Would go. further .and .say, it woultkbe Tight, up..
uler the present circumstances, not to confine it to,
)jea,s itOmediately depending, but,he should wish
most anxiously, that the whole condu6., of Ga..
e, content. since the conclusion , of. the . Definitive-
:lreaty, to the present moment, should be fairly laid
fie fore the "louse. and the Country. 'He was satis.
.on a review of that conduti, His Majesty's
''Roisters would have no reason to repent of it ;
and when that came before the Muse, he .should be
/sad), to enter into the discussion of the. whole or ,
any part of that conduft which any Gentleman in the
tiouse might think proper to require—Under the
present circumstances, however, he thought non ad,
i.v,anrages could arise by catering into the measure of
took at present, or events that antecedentlY
Place; that would answer at presint no useful

purpose...lithe Addresi, if it pledgeA the. tense to
any thing upon, it, tinittht embarrass the House.--
The Address pledged the House to` nothing but that
to which the House was ready to assent at all
times, namely, to, sUpport Maj?s!y
ing the dignity of the Crown and the essential iu.
teres,ts of the Country. . •
Mr. lel xpl-LOT assured the House he had no
intention to claim its attention long. He agreed
with an :Honourable Gentleman who spoke' before
him, that the House was put into rather an hard
situation, because it WAS called upon to ad in -the
dark ; he. did not think it was sufficient for the
House to be told that hereafter they shall be in pos-
session of the ground on,Which the,present proceeding
was proposed. The House ought •to be, in.a
tion where it might have some knowledge of events,
in a crisis so considerable; the House ought toknow

something upon this subje4l,, instead of Proceeding
upon a nullity of information ; for upon this matter
which now occupied its.most serious attention, the
House knew literally nothing; it was told only in
general terms, that exertions are necessary.. The
House indeed knew that very considerable arma.
ments, had been made, --and a great change made in
the system of what was called Peace. He must
therefore enter a species of protest against the mode
.now adopted, the necessity, being in his opinion,
such as to call for it, and.requiring exertion : that
the force proposed to be used should.be used merely
as defence; now all species of force might be so
used, especially in the first instance, but it was
here of the last importanee, when great force was
necessary, to know what that force was, because
prudence might require force of dilferent sorts in dif-
ferent circumstances : there was some that was in its
nature defensive, and defensive only ; that must be
the case of the Militia ; but for the interpretation
of the present vote, nothing. more need be said,
than that the Houseconcurred i,t. They pledged
themselves to nothing but •that which had been
already stated, and in that no man 'could have
any difficutty. Here he should have ended, if it

had ,not bren for some observations made on the

other side of the House It was said, on a former
occasion, by au Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox), that
Peace was his policy and first wish, said Mr.
WI 0-DHAM, and that War was mine. '4 I am, at
present, in no state to say, I can be in no state to
say, whether War would_ be expedient or not ; if it
were necessary to come to an opinion, no conclusion
could be drawn from the. conduct of those who were
the most vehement opposers of the. Peace, what their
"opinion would be now. That they should be sup-
posed. -to. be glad of what was now proposed,
that they exulted in it, would catch with
patience at any prospett at the renewal of the
War, would be a conclusion as false in red.
suning, as unfounded in fad." The very reverse
was the fact ; he who was a vehement oppose! of
the Peace of Amiens, who had no reason now to
alter the opinion he gave then, but abundant reason
to adhere to it, might nevertheless not conclude
now. that War could be made with advantage: he
might think otherwise, in proportion to the.con-
vielion of his mind at the time he oppose
did
the
Peace.' He might be the less readtto catch 'at War
now Irian lie was then, because he might be of opi.
•nion that we had lost the opportunity which might
have been then afforded, -and therefore persons
tertaieing the opinions which he did, would consider
thia as a very serious matter, An Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Fox) had often said, , that no
evils could be stated which were equal to the evils
of War. Ha believed that •it now began to be
snspeCied, perhaps felt, that there were dangers in
Peace as well as in War, and they might go on as ra.
picily too. in that state as the, evils' of War, and
might lead a. Country into :that state in which no-
War could stop them. Now he would beg leave to
observe to the Noble Lord who spoke last, that
there was a double responsibility attached to a Mi. ,
sister, that of making an improper Peace, and also
that of making an improper. War ; the danger of the
.one might in some cases, be equal to the danger of
the other. Consigning this, as he did, ,completely
to His Majesty's Ministers, he could only remind
them of .their responsibility, and that it applied to
either side, the alternative of Peace or War.

Mt. SHERIDAN said, that there was something
very extraordinary in the speech of the Right Hon.
'Gentleman' who had just sat down. That Rt. Hiin.
Member had stated, that he might feel an extreme
relUttince in agreeing to a War at present, that lie
had been a vehement opposer of the Peace, 'and
that by beingio, lie was necessarily reludant to
our now going to war. He understood the Right
lion. Gentleman by this to mean, that this Country
had, by agreeing' to the Peaceo incapacitated itself
from going to War. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had also said, that we were not now able to renew
the War ;' he had even stated, that we were not
now able to.defend ourselves. Such language had
certainly been held by the First Consul of +ranee,
but he, did not exreci to hear it re-echoed by any
'Member of the British House of 'Commons. This
Country had'observed great moderation and for-
beatance, in order to maintain Peace, but if re.
pealed insults and provocations rendertdit neces.
sary for us to go to War; single-hatided its we were,
yet he had the most: perfect confidence that we.,
should. be able, to cOnvince France that we were
capable of supporting our honour and dignity, and'
that each Individual in this,. Country would he
ready to follow- the illuatrious example of His Royal
Highness the Prince of Wales, in .determining to
forego every consideration of personal convenience
or accommodation, when the interest of the Coun-
try was,at stake, and, with fortitude and magnani..
miry to preserve the Country in that state which
he was sure had not been injured by' our modera-
tion..

Mr. WINDHAM. said, that the Hon. Gentle.
man bad impute& to Itint that which he hail, never
said, for he had giverr no decided opinion whether
this Country ought. to go to war or not.
Mr. CANAING said, it was highly necessary,
whether the result was War or Peace, that the House
Should know if the explanation given this day Was
all the explanation the House and the Country were
to have: lie waited till that moment, because he
was not willing to suppose the existekee of any dis.
ability on the part of His MajestYis, Ministers to
give a proper explanation, till after a full opportu.
pity. biid been afforded thew. It had been said by

I the iiiitie-titott of the tliai in the
eVent of. War,-,the
.fullest .explanation:lhould, be
inade ; het that was not sufficient ; it sirsisnecesiary
the ground- of, this inest alartnio; communication
- should be explained ,to its very foundation.--It was.
a measure, compared with which, any thing in big
memory was.. triiiyt; and ,unimportant—it had
planned and agitated the minds of all the people of
the Country, ;and yet he had not" heard that -the'
1m141105t communication as to the cause which had
produced it was.to be laid before the House. He
did not mean to detain the 'House - with 'comment-
ing upory.the Message of His Majesty, but it did
seem to him to behard to be thus dealing with the
feelings of a generous people, jt was not that
degree ofcommunication whicli ought to exist be-
tween the Executive GoVernment,and the People:
There had beers shewn in the two feverish and anxi.
ous. years which had. last passa,-, that there. had
been a docility in the minds of the people to adopt
the impression of the Executive Government. Those
-feelings ought not to be met by.a reserve,- which he
would venture to say, the most despotic Govern-
ment never maintained, towards's!rhe most enslaved
People. .He did not believe there:ever was an event
in the World which had- produced a greater sensa-
tion than theone announced yesterday, or one which
• had ever been less expeded. It it should announce,
that a communication would, at all events 'be Made,
and that it was intended to be sufficient, ample, and
sasisfadory ; its such case,. the few observations he
had made would have been thrown away. He trial
waited with impatience, but hut heard the inten..
Lion ola Communication to Parliament announced
only in the'tvent. of one alternative. Not that it
could make the least alteration as to the Vote, li.
miledand understood as it was ; he only meant to
infer, that it was nut a proper modetO- be 2dr:tined-
towards the Country, considering the uniform de.
claratiotis of its Loyalty.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in
explanation, alluded to what had fallen from a
Right Hon. Member (Mr. CANN 1 NG), •OR bad
stated, that no information had been promised to
the House, except in the alternative of
.War, And
that no communication would have been'made, but
in that event. He begged leave to stare, that lie .
had given no pledge whatsoever ; but this he would
say, that whatever might the the event,' he
ed the reserve which had been imputed to him, and
that he never would withhold any communication
from Parliament upon any subjed relative to the
.publie interest,
.which might be communicated with
a due regard to 'that interest.
AIr.T.GRENYILLE rose, to 'make a few ob..
servations uptin what had 'fallen froth a Right Hon
Gentleman respeding the Answer which had been
given by the Minister. He admitted that, which
he was very sure was felt by every Member in'
that House, that upon such a subject as this there
ought to be no dissenting voice, but a question had
been put to the Ministers, whether, in anratterna.
tive, eXcept that of War, they intended to lay any
information. bel-ore .the.Hottse To. this question
the answer was, that no pledge whatever had been
given upon the suhied. Now he could not help
observing, thoethe.very mode in- which this answer
had been given, was a satisfactory justification:-of
the Hon. 'Member who had put the question. Hay-
ing ssid tittti'Mtreti, beg-ged to obseive, 'that no
man was more unwilling than himself tti enter into.
any °discussion whatever that could operate to re, .
raed, or even to throw a shade upon the Resolution
which had been proposed. He did feel a great deal
11 of embarrassment on his mind as to the ignorance
in which thelioust. Was placed on .this occasion ; for
when Government proposed to the House an Ad.
dress, which the Right Hon. Gentleman had de.
scribed as containing no pledge whatsoever, yet
the House must be supposed to be pledged. in the
customary manner to the fads to which they as,
seated. He could not help remarking, ,that if on
the one hand unanimity was felt to. be, so desirable,
yet on the other the effed of it would he consider_
ably lessened in the eyes of alle ntankind, if the
present Vote did not. convey the tangible opieion
of every man in that House ; for so it must be, when
the House voted an Address Without any informa-
tion respeding fads.- With these few remarks he
should conclude, assuring the !louse that there MIS
.
no man in it mare ready or eager he was to
carry up to the Throne the Ausseet contained in
the present Address. His mind was certainly stn
pressed with sentiments' of great anxiety upon this
subject, but he trusted that the measures now pro-
posed would be of a' nature to produce peace and
tranquillity. . , •
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL 'said, he could, ,
not be surprized that any Gentleman' who concurred
in the vote should wish to lay in his- protest against
giving any pledge as to the future sentiments.he
might think proper to adont, lie thought nothing
could be more reasonable, than that at a time when
a _Message of this sort was brought from the Throne,
And when the: iI()LISe,WaS called upon to express its
thanks for the gracious communication,' those ,Gen.
tlemen who were 'of opinion the statement was not
sufficient to justify the War, shoald lay its their
claim to express their semi scents, whatever they
Alight he, on a future occasion ;;.but he could not
help thinking, that the House had no reason to deem
,ItSelf hardly dealt with, by inforinaiiim being kept
back, when in lad,','no information had been called "
for, and when the qUestibn to be consiAeted
Only a communication' from the Throne, stating
.there were certain 'measures which tendered it ne.
Cessafy for us to make defensive preparations and
hold, ourselves on our guard, and when it was ex-
pressly stated too, thava satisladory cononunica.
'ion would, In due time be made to Parlianient.
The Hon. Member who had Jest spokehactsaid the
Message seemed, to augur well, because it manifested'
a disposition to exertion ; buthe thougifflie might
as well have .spared that observation- it inferred,
that no conclu`siOn- the House should adopt could
be too violent. With resped to' what had fallen
from a Right Honourable Gentletnan behind him
(Mr. CANNING) he answered him 'a little premature,
as to the disposition he had anticipated of His Ma-
jesty's Ministers- withholding- any ornatunication
upon the subjed. There• had been no disposition
expressed by-His Majesty's Ministers, that in the
event of War being 'unnecessary, no- informanion
'would be laid befOte the House. Whether such in-
formation shoidd be laid befune tilt 'Kowa, ingsi-

,send upon eiretiniStancei: When it Oias ?lessen tit
would be ih7the powet of ;last
Member to detnand if, and the Hob: 1i; If It
proper, would t nlnrce its produCtion: He set-p.!:-;
not prolong the Debate, except by tit:CritidniwA,
one circumstance. The Honourable Gentleara•i
he had mentioned seemed td have recurred to
the opinion he had expressed, respecting the ea.:
;amities piOdticed by the conclution of the Defi-
nitive 'treaty of .Peace of Amiens; on the groun4
that it'was calculated to promote a war ; nnd that,
in the event of this Country going to War, we shOuld
he so crippled, that the circumstance Of having had
Peace would be attended with the-effeA of render.
ing a futitre War more diffictrft: He *holly
agreed with him. niaietained, that the opinion
of the People at large, going along with tl-fe opinioo
of Government, upon a question so important as the
present Onej was infinitely mote to be eonsidered
than the precise state of the proportion of ninitaty
force, referring to, the period when the Peuti
Ives concluded. If it should ultimately
,ttlin out,
t 'be oh I iged to renov fiostiliz
ties, the Government, he had atO doubt, Would be'
able to state to the House, that ihosellostilities had
not been provoked, aod.that they Could not, by any
proper, temperate, and honourable conduct, be pre.
vented. IfFlkMajesty'i Ministers should lay before
the House this state of the case, he was persuaded
that the spirit 'of the country would be is unison
"With that which- aetuated His Majesty's-Ministers*
and that the absOlute necessity of tertewirtg ho4tili-
ties;Would give enure stteng,tll, vigour, and energy
to those which should be undertaken, than could pos.
siblyabeimparted, by preserving the exit& miatary
position of a particular period. lie trusted the
House would think the- question was left open to
discussion, 'and- that whatever the measures of Go-
‘fernalent, had been, they would he fully inquired
into. lie hUped Oarliament and the Country would
not be too fond of Peace—an unstable, delusive
Peace. He trusted they, would not be indueed. to
think, that nothing short of an attack on the Coun-
try would justify "Hostilities. He flattered himself
they would bring their niinds temperately to the
discusiton of the subjed; and to the consideration
of--whether His Majesty's Ministers had. aded,
wisely in taking the course they had done with
regard to both these points ; he was persdaded
'there 'could -be no material difference of 'opinion
on generallrounds ; and. respeaing, the question
immediately before the House, nothing was pro.
posed, than that supposing the case to be ex+
aCtly as it was stated in His Majesty's Melineg
the House should pledge itself thus far. and no far.
cher ; that it. should admit it ,to be a case which
justified Military Preparations, but nothing ..more:
if afterwards it --should appear that the ctrcu:n.
stances and situation, of the. Country did not justify
the present application, it would properly be a Suit.
jea for future consideration, To give His 'Wok:sty
an assurance of our determination to guard itgitinse
surprise, was all the House was ar present called
upon to hetrusted, therefore, there could be
DO reasonable ground of complaint on the one hand,
and that on the other there:would be no. teltidanee
In-giving further itlforfnation.
The questions was put, and carried in the affiraia.
tive. Nernine clntradirente.

ADDITION
.Q SEAMEN.
The.CHANqt,I,LOR of the .ExcHNo grt'e no-
tice,.that on Friday near, in the Conunittee of SUN
ply, he should move fur an increase .of to,Ooci Sea.
men and Marines.. •

- The I-louse resolved itself into a Cointrlittee of
the whole Hottie,-on.the Irish Revenue Aets.
Mr. C.dRRY said, several Hon." Gentlemen hid
inade:amobjeaion to the.Schedtile, as well as com-
plained, that the time for taking the same into con..,
Sideration was too' short. As to the Schedule, ht
assured the Committee, that it had been tfra'wn ttis
by very able persons; who had been furnished with
the Iwo materials fur the purpose. ; and that he had
taken considerable pains to have it as' eorrea nfi
posssible ; yet there might be ttifling errors which
he should be glad to see correaed. With respen
the notice: which hadheen given, and which kitTord.
ed time for, the consideration of its merits, he must
be permitted' to observe, that he bid given notito
of his intention two Seisions-ago, Which tie thought
was' quite; long' fur the investigation of the
subjeasnow before them. He therefore, hoped, there
would be as little delay as possible, as Much had
ready been said on the subjeat; and.arit Was tho
wish of-Several Hon. Genttemen, he had, no:objec..
riots, to the Taxes being ow voted in the usn ,ray
for one year, as it had hitherto been usual, reservior,
to himself the privilege of renewing his present
proposition, to make them permanent in the present
Session, if it should be thought necessary to adopt
such a proceeding, As it appeared, however; to be.
the opinion of -several Gentlemen who represented
that part of the United Kingdom to' which this Bill
particularly referred, that a further time should
be -given,. for the consideration of this subjcet„
he certainly should not objeit ro it. In bringit,
forwaidthis•subjeft, he only adeti in pursuance or
:the notice he hadgiven, and the discharge of that
,which he considered to be his duty. But if there
renuined any doubt in the mind of any Gentleman,
-with reipe4 to the notice he had given, he should
certainly conceive himself bound to adopt the line
'of conduit which he, now did, namely, to vote
the ..1~ s for one year, as it had hitherto been done,
instead of permanently. He coneludzd with mov.
ing the Resolotioh for the continuance:of the: Duties
for one year.

Mr. iPICKII,IM said 'lle was of opinion that
the time had biri sLlSEciencl., long under all the
circumstances of stile cite,. to investipte the merits
of thr.subjed and he thought every respe& was
due to the Gentlemen mho had paid so much wen-
'lion to the business. of their constituents.
Mr: said he approved of the Taxes
being annual, instead Llf being:noted permanently,
awl h shoold.tonsider hiteseii bound to bring Tor.
ward the question a future period, to Make smile
alterations io the ScleclAt. He hoped" th.o I-lan,
.Gentleman would send a printed Sehedu3e to thfri;?.,it:
14erchants of, different towns Lfl Ireland, bo tIAS
they may he able to judge of the sulljeCt.
A Mtgnut, whose ,name eve could not 1m.,4f.:
saia, he hoped torte svoulA be settle atterati**6
mxts betore they were'made permanent,. •
Autss said a few, winds.
•

~4. :~-_.
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