The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-30 00:00:00

THE SUN,

LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING,

seed had the approbation of the noble lord opposite (the
Earl of Clarendon) ; and that being so, he trusted, in
the hope of bringing about an amicable settlem.nt of
this question, that this would close, at least for the
present, the discussions in their lordships' house on this
difficult and delicate subject. (Hear.)
The conversation then terminated.
INDIA.

The Duke of ARGYLL moved that there be laid be-
fore their lordships' house, the report to the general
court of the East India Company from the Court of Di-
rectors upon the two bills now before Parliament relat-
ing to the government of India. The noble duke
thought no blame attached to the noble earl opposite for
the change he had made in the course which he had in-
tended to pursue when in opposition. It was undoubt-
edly true that the vote in the other house of Parliament
(which was carried, he believed, by a majority of 200)
had so essentially altered the position of her Majesty's
present Government that they were fully entitled to say
that, whatever might have been their opinions in opposi-
tion, they had no alternative but to proceed to legisla-
tion with regard to the government of India; and he
(the noble duke) could only express his earnest hope that
they would not allow the present session to come to a
conclusion without the question being settled one way er
the other. (Hear.) He quite agreed that so long as the
Court of Directors was the de facto government of India
it ought to be respected ; but no one could deny that its
authority had been most materially diminished by the
vote in the other house, especially when the character of
the noble earl the President of the Board of Control was
borne in mind. It was notorious that at no time bad the
noble earl been disposed to pay much respect to the
Court of Directors, and he could not conceive that what
had taken place was at all calculated to increase the
noble earl's deference to the Court. (Hear, hear.) He
entirely concurred in the policy which the noble earl had
indicated in a despatch published that morning, with re-
ference to the treatment of our revolted subjects in
India; but it was a most remarkable circumstance that
that despatch should have been sent through the secret
committee. That circumstance proved that the Preei-
dent of the Board of Control, even under present circum-
stances, had an absolute authority over the whole go-
vernment of-India. (Hear, hear.) While he (the noble
duke) approved of the determination of the present
Government to proceed to legislation, he could not
help thinking that the steps it had subsequently
taken had only increased the difficulty of the problem
they had to solve. It would he remembered thatthe n ,ble
earl had last year expressed his aversion to any material
change; for he said that constitutions grew up and coul I
not be made. From that he should have expected that
the noble earl would have made as little alteration as
possible when he came into office ; and yet his plan in-
volved an entirely new constitution fLr India. There were
in it far more elements of change ; it was much more
complicated, and it was more open to the objection that
it created a new constitution than the bill of the late Go-
vernment. It had been withdrawn, but Parliament would
still have to deal with its main features concentrated into
a series of abstract resolutions. A more inconvenient
mode of proceeding could not be devised ;. because in a
case like this the merits or demerits of a measure must
depend entirely upon its details. A great deal had been
said with regard to the principle of election. But there
Was no principle whatever involved in the abstract idea
Of election apart from the definition of those who were
to be the electors, and the functions of those who were
to be elected. It was a prevalent opinion that the chief
difficulty in transferring the government of India from
the name of the company to the name of the Queen was
that which would be experienced in limiting the power
( f the Crown. In the document for which he was moving
their lordships would see that the directors (oho were
thoroughly conversant with the existing practice) also
insisted upon the same notion—not, indeed, very con-
sistently, for one part of the paper was contradicted by
another—not from any want of ability on the part of
those by whom it had been drawn up, but in consequence
of the false position in which the directors found them-
selves. This idea had come down to us from the great con
test of 1788. The objection to Mr. Fox's bill was that it
would dangerously increase the power of the Crown if the
government of India were transferred to it; but the mean-

ing of that objection was that the transference would give
the Crown power to interfere with the commerce of In-
dia. Bat all that had payed away. There was now no
commerce to be dealt with, and thus there was now no
danger to be apprehended. (Hear.) In 1783 it was argued
that there would be nothing to prevent a Minister fro:n
appointing to the great pro-consular commands any per-
son he pleased, whatever might have been his previous
qualifications or services. The danger that was then
apprehended was that of the nabobs, 39 they were then
called, would come back from India and emp'oy their
ill-gotten wea'th in obtaining parliamentary it. fluence
but all that was now completely changed, and they
would now b• only too glad to secure the cervices of
persons who had had experience in India for their new
council. (Hear.) Again, it was contended that the pro-
posed council should be absolutely independent. This
doctrine was laid down in one pare of the document for
which he was moving, but in another part of it they were
told that the council must be one not to control but to
advise the Indian Minister. (Hear.) And here he must
express the astonishment with which he had read a state-
ment of a right hon. friend of his in another place, for
whom he felt the greatest respect and admiration—v;z.,
that the power of the President of the Board of Conlrol
had of late been increasing, and that that inare,aa had
not received the formal sanction of Parliament. The fact
was, the machinery of the secret committee, through
which the power of the Board of Control was exercised,
had received the sanction of Parliament over and over

again. There could be no doubt that Parliament never
intended that the pwer of the executive should not be
the same with regard to Indian wars and with regard to

wars in Europe. It was true, it might be paid, that Par-
liament had an indirect check over the executive with
regard to wars in Europe because it had to provide the
means for carrying them on. At the same time there
could be no doubt that as regarded the authority of tho
executive with respect to war, it was just the same in
India as in Europe. (Hear.) It would be well, however,
if the principle were more generally recognised that the
chief dangers of our Eastern empire were internal, and
that so long as it made progress in the cause of improve-
ment they might disregard ail the attempts of Russia or
any other foreign power. (Hear, hear.) Bat to return
to the proposed council. The plan for representing special
interests was the very worst that could be conceived ;
and on this point he would quote the words of the noble
earl (Lord Eilenborough) in 1853. [The noble duke here
read an extract, in which Lord Ellenberou, h deprecated
the giving to the mercantile community any direct share
in the government of India, on the ground that they
might make an improper use of information they re-
ceived.] The noble earl, again, was generally supposed to
he the chief authority for the introduction of the elective
principle ; but he had looked over his evidence in 1853,
and he found that the noble earl only advocated else ie
as an alternative if nomination was not adop' ed ; but
there could be no doubt that in 1853 the noble earl gave
a preference to the latter as being the mode by which
men of the greatest ability could be procured. At
present the beet men would not face the trouble of a can-
vass, and when the constituency was enlarged the objec.
Cone would be proportionably increased. Indeed, when
he recollected the noble earl's speeches, he must say he
had been much puzzled to account for his bill. The task
which lay before them was a most difficult one. They
had to rule a distant empire with an absolute government
on the spot and a parliamentary government at home.
They had to bring to bear upon it their own purer faith,
their greater knowledge, and their more perfect civilisa-
tion ; and they had at the same time to guard it from
being wade the sport of political parties or the sacrifice
of European selfishness. (Cheers.) He thought the noble
earl himself must have had a higher opinion of the good
sense of the English people when he found that itrefused
one of the main features of his own bill, that portion of
it by which he proposed to give certain great cities the
right to elect a portion of his council.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that whatever
might be the present or future difficulties of the Govern-
meat of India, the present Government was re:.t rerpon-
sible f..r them ; because at the end of list year he bad de-
precated any change beyond the introduction of the
Queen's name, which would have required very few altera-
tions to effect. Her Majesty's late Government had appa-
rently cot made up their minds on the subject till after
Christmas. They seemed to have considered it in the
races', and they introduced their bel at the cennnence-
went of the present session. He rejoiced to find that
the noble duke was of opinion (and he hoped that the
colleagues of the noble duke agreed with him) that as
the question had been stirred, the present Government
were bound to go oc with the proposed legislation ; for
certainly after they had passed sentence upon the Court
of Directors it would be most improper to leave the
government of the Indian empire in the hands of a body
they had thus stigmatised. (Hear, hear.) The news of
the overthrow of Lord Palmerston's Government,
and of the intended overthrow of the E ist India Corr.-
pany, would create great confusion in India ; and what
Parliament intended to do, l_t them ptoceed to do at
once. They might depend upon it that the state f the
country was not such as to make it advisible and desii
able to add to the difficulty in which the government in
India was involved. It was with the greatest gratifica-
tion, therefore, that he had heard the noble euke express
his opinion that they ought to legislate on the subject
this year. With regard to himself and the East India
Company, it was impossible for the pieblic business to be
conducted more amicably than it was conducted between
himself and the East India Company. He was now for
the fourth time at the Board of Control, and he never
had a dispute with the East India Company, or with any
individual member of the Board of Directors. He did
not believe that the Court of Directors had thrown any
obstructions in the way of her Majesty's Government ; it
they would have done so at any time, they would have
'done so last year, but they had not done so, and that
was not any reason for 1-gislating on the subject now
The great evil of the present system was the evil f
necessary del :y. He had explained the circumstances
under which it was not only allowable but right to pass
this letter through the secret department ; if he had
passed it through the public department it would not have
been brought to light by this time. The directors could
not avoid the delays which occurred, and they were some-
times extremely serious. He would not go into a eiscu 4.
sion on the resolutions or the bills, it would be irregular
in him to do so. The late government proposed a council
of eight persons nominated by the crown, and these eight
persons must of necessity either have resided fifteen years
in India or have served ten years in India. Every officer
of
uher Majesty's army would of necessity be excluded,
more than that, every person who viewed Indian
affairs with an English mind would be praeicalle
excluded. Now no person could have sat in the
council in India without experiencing the great difficulty
there was from not haverinrg on it a person with a fresh
English mind. All their were Indian, and so it
The h
would be here.only person who had English
opinions would be the Secretary of. State himself, who,
he was confident, would be seriously embarrassed from

the circumstance of his having no one to support him in
the views that he might have. Practically, under the
present system, which was one of election, there was in
the court some merchant, some gentleman, who had not
an Indian life before him, and whose opinions were not
altogether formed in India. He considered sit was of
very great advantage to preserve that element in the
council, and it was of much more importance to do so
now than it was five years ago. There had been a great
increase in our commercial intercourse with the East ;
there had been invested in railways and public works in
India not less than 30,000,0001. in the course of the last
four or five years. Capitalists were beginning to address
themselves to India, and he thought it advisable that
they should have in the council for India some persons
with whom the president of the council might advise on
subjects connected with commerce. In.the bill of the
present Government care was taken to effect that object.
Toe noble duke had said much on the principle of elec-
tion. On every occasion on which he (the Earl of Ellen-
borough) had spoken on the future government of
India, he had always insisted on the council being
elected. He should desire to find in that council not
only men eminent in the different services of India,
but the best commercial men who could be discovered.
He knew that, in point of fact, the Government could
not find these men. The only means of obtaining them
was by election. He saw day lily day questions put about
India, exhibiting the grossest ignorance of the real state
of that country, which filled him with alarm, and what
he desired was to give to the minister who might have
the charge of India devolving upon him, a council so in-
dependent, so influential, that he might derive great
strength from their support in resisting attacks upon it.
He did not know how they were to obtain such a body
except by election. The system of nomination, however
well exercised, would not create a body which had the
same weight and influence as a body which was elected.
That was his reason for desiring to have the principle
of election carried out in this council. It was no new
opinion of his. He bad always looked with a degree
of jealousy, almost morbid, on a newly nominated coun-
cil. He believed that such a council would lead to a
system of jobbing. He would not have jobbed, but he
did not know what others would do who followed him.
The object of having an elected council was to render
it impossible to make that a bad Government which they
wished to be a good Government. His of jest was to
lay the foundation of a government which would make
India happy, strong, and powerful, and make it so in
connection with this country. He thought that by con-
necting the council of India with some of the great cities
of England he was giving a stability and an influence to
the council which would enable the president of the
council, when he was right, to support his opinions in
%Parliament. That might be wrong, but that had been
his object, and he trusted that the friends of the noble
duke, acting in the spirit in which ho had spoken to-
night, would feel the absolute neces:ity to legislate on
this subject this year. Depend upon it they must not
trifle with the security of India.
Earl GREY said he was particularly envious to follow
the noble earl, because, although there was much in his
speech in which he concurred, there was one point on
which he differed both from the noble earl and from the
nob'e duke—he meant as to the necessity of settling
this question of the home government of India in the
present year. The House of Commons had considerably
it creased the difficulty, but the danger of delay was
nothing compared to the danger of taking a false step.
(Hear.) If they now re-organised the home government
of India upon a wrong principle, in a manner not cal-
culated to work according to their intentions—if they
took a wrong step, it would probably be irreparable. If
he,had that conviction before, he mu,t say it had been
strengthened by the speech of his noble friend below
him. He did not think that the subject had as yet been
so will investigated that any man, be he who he might,
could deal with it with the wisdom which it required. Let
him also say that he thought the danger of delay in re-
organising the home government of India was greatly
exaggerated, because, after all, it was a mere question as
t o the manner in which the authority of the home
Government was to be exercised over the govern-
ment of India. At this moment the Queen's Govera-
ment was supreme. The President of the Board of
Control exercised a power so large and so cemplete
that his policy must be adopted. The noble earl told
thsm that he had acted most harmoniously with the
directors, that he had no difficulty with them. Now the
only alteration effected by any bill he might introduce
would be some modification of the manner in which the
Cabinet cf the day would act on the Indian Govern-
ment. They would not touch materially the constitu-
tion of the Government in India. The people in India
looked exclusively to the Governor-General, and knew
nothing whatever of the authority which was exercised
over him. They were utterly ignorant of the machinery
by which the Court of Directors and the President of
the Board of Control impressed their views on the Go-
vernor-General. All they looked to was the Governor-
General, who, whether a bill was passed or not, would
continue in their eyes to be the ruler of India. There-
fore, he did cot apprehend any serious difficulty in India
-from delay. He did not deny that there would be some.
He did not deny that the introduction of the measures
made it more difficult to pause than if those measures
lead not been brought forward, but still he .thought the
difficulty was greatly, exaggerated, and that it was
nothing at all to the danger arising from precipitation.
Then, he ventured to say that the principle on which
the home government of India should be constituted had
hitherto been very little considered, either by the public .1
or by Parliament. A. few Months ago there ran through
the country a sortof general cry, to snbetitute the power
of the Crown for the power of the East India Company.
That cry rose more from passion than from sober con-
sideration. What people really meant at that time was to
transfer the government of India to the Cabinet of the
day. By the constitution of this country it was aSso-
lately necessary that the head of the Indian department
should hold his office by the uncertain tenure of a Par-
liamentary majority. It was therefore quite impossible
that the man who held that situation should be trained
to it by long Indian experience ; and to expect a person
of that sort to govern India without assistance, or even
to exercise that control over local administration which
was necessary, seemed to he absurd. He himself bad
the honour for five years and a half of holding the offic
of Secretary of State fur the Colonies. Many of the
colonies had representative assemblies, which prevented
the necessity as to them of superintendence as to local
affairs; but even with that assistance it was impossible
for him to attend to the many and complicated affairs of
all the colonies. India, however, was very much more
extensive than all the colonies combined, and the Secre-
tary of State for India must be as-isted by competent
advisers to exercise effectual control. He quite admitted
that the Imperial Government must in the end be su-
preme, but there was a moral control which could only
be exercised by a powerful and thoroughly independent
body. (Hear.) Hitherto the Court of Directors had
been such a b gly. When ho presented the petition he
called their lordships' attention to the fact that in many
cases the East India directors had, when they hat found
justice on their side, successfully resisted the wishes of
the Minister of the Crown. He thought it abso-
lutely necessary that the body which was about to he
associated with the minister for India should have
that power. The two things, responsibility and
power, went together. Even Parliament itself
wanted to have some moral control over the Govern-
ment. The interests of England and India were nut
always the same. There was a well-known case, the
war with Persia—n• t the recent war, but that of 1840.
Their lordships might think that the cost of the war
should be a burden on India, and not on the people of
England. It was essential, therefore, that there should
be some body which was able to exercise an independent
authority, which would be able t ) state the case of India
in a manner that would demand attention, and to insist
upon justice being done. But how wee that to be acoorn-
plished by the bill of the late government. They were to
have a council of eight persons named by the crown, only
for eight years, two of them going out annually, so there
would always be in the council two .persons going out,
and anxious to be re-appointed, and two who had just
come in, and therefore there would be no check on the
minister. He could not c )ncur with the noble ea. I,
however, in what he said as to the principle of election.
An election was an excellent means of obtaining the opinion
of the electors on matters in which they were concerned,
bet he was quite at a lose to know how the electors of
the City of London, for instance, could be expected to
make a Also choice of a person to administer the affairs
f India. If they !sad a numerous constituency of that
-ort an election could not be won except by management
out of doors, and which would be liable to abuse. The
great fault of the existing arrangement was the mode of
electing the directors. He thought it worth considering
whether the best course would notlbe to adopt avowedly,
and with soma precautions, some system of self-election,
but subject to the check that the nomination should not
take effect without the approbation of the crown and the
names being laid before both Houses of Parliament.
Thera were various considerations connected wit ) this
subjec', which was not yet ripe for legislation. It should
be farther discussed not only in Parliament but out of
doors, and hereafter, he believed, it might be dealt
with much more satisfactorily than it could be at
present. Therefore be for one raj Bred at the great
change of opinion which had taken place on this 3 ilejec'.
A little while ago the public seemed to be in favour of a
sudden change in the form of government. That had
passed away, and it was a very remarkable circumstance
that both ties late Government and the present Govern-
ment, in introducing their respective bills for the aboli-
tion of the East India C ,nspany, had tried which could
go fur hest in praising that body. And what was the
prospect of legislating this session ? Taey were now at
the end of April, and the resolutions on which they were
to found a bill were still to be discussed in the House of
Commons, and to be discussed in this state of things,
that they had the present Government pr'apossing one bill,
the heart of the present Government proposing another
bill, and a n ,ble lord who was formerly at the head of
another Government proposing another plan. Then
they had the Chamber of Commerce in Manchester re-
commendinggsluoipntepeutsaheinthegha,at:a,nd the Chamber of Commerce
111;1 Liverpool recommending something quite difFerent.
Caul“ tre wkaesy
couldwhich
wlegislateasdt,i
desirable?
e?t seilintis :h.: fuocuctoh:llaiwtnsii
ttioic th it
at on tdtt
the glhemoeil
ointsnieserir, 'ajt:hicoetyt.)
Go-
vernment abandoned all idea of legislating en this sub-
ject this session, the better.

Earl GRANVILLE did not understand why the
speech of his noble friend (E,rlGn=y) had been cheered
by the other side, for in its views it had been utterly
opposed to the scheme of the Government. He would
venture to add very few 'observati.ms, but when the
nob!e °srl said that the present state of things with re-
gard to the future of India was the fault of the late Go-
vernment, he must be permitted to my that his noble
friend was gr-atly ini4taker. (gear.) The noble earl
seemed to think that the late Government had hastily
framed their bill on this subj,ct, Now, he had not had the
great experience of some noble lords, but so far as his ex-
perience went, ke must say that he never knew a bill so
fully considered as the bid of the late Government on India,

The noble lord (Ellenborongb) said that he was always in
favour of an elective council. But in a speech which he
made in that house some time since he had himself stated
that he should prefer the nominee system. (Hear.) This
was not an old but a late opinion of the noble earl. In
this very year he had said that the members of the Board
of Directors which were nominated by the Government
were worth all the rest.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—That was a bad
constituency ; I provide a good one.
Earl GRANVILLE—WeII, then, it was very strange
thatl the noble earl's colleagues should have so soon
abandoned that constituency.

Lord ELLENBOROUG-11—We have not abandoned
the constituencies to which irefor.,

Eerl GRANVILLE—ReaIIy it was very difficult to
follow the noble earl, because ire this bill there were so
many constituencies; all in el sbence at one time. The
noble earl had to-night spoken very highly in favour of
his commercial constituency, and hail stated that great
results would come of evading one.Felf of their knowledge.
But he (L ,rd Granville) remembered that some time
since the noble earl had expressly stated that a council
for India should be well versed in Indian matters, and
he had then asked triumphantly, " Would a man go to
his bankers for information on India?" (Hear, hear.)
Really it seemed that the noble earl had forgotten to-
night the statements which he had made on former oc-
caeione. (Hear, hear.) regard to the question of
going on, he certainly agreed with the noble earl on that
point, for much had cow been done towardsthe assump-
tion of the government of Irdia by the Crown, and to
let it go out to that country that the intentions of the
Government had been thwarted at home would be
fraught with great danger to our Indian empire. (Hear,
hear.) There were many other points upon which he
could have addreeeed their lordships, but at that late
hour he would not venture to weary them. (Hear, hear.)
He would only say that be quite believed in the honour
and public spirit of the noble earl opposite—(hear, hear)
—but he must add, that a more dangerous bill than the
one he had submitted to the house it was impossible to
conceive. (Hear.) _

Lord MON LEA. GLE pointed out to the house that it
was highly inconvenient that their lordships should pro-
ceed with a discussion like the present, when no measure
was before them. He deprecated the discussion of this
question with the meagre information now lo,fore the
house. When on former occasions less changes than the
present were contemplated, greater care had been taken
to oLcain conclusive and reliable information. This was
the most difficult solution of the Indian question that
was ever presented to them.. He believed that the Go-
vernment would come at last to the postponement of the
question, and would not be sorry to arrive at that con-
clusion. He did not believe there was any feeling in the
country in favour of legislation. Bill after bill might be
introduced, but he was convinced the result would show
the impracticability of legislation.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said his noble
friend appeared t f irget that the pending legislation was
but a preliminary step. What was required was the en-
tiro reorga.c.isation of the government of India, and the
first step towards that was to get rid of t'ie Court of
Directors, who had hitherto prevented measures of im-
provement from being carried ont in India. The cry of
Indian reform had been called a senseless cry ; it was
not a s9nseless cry ; it arose from the fact that the Bri-
tish felt that they had not derived such advantages from
their magnificent possessions in India as they ought to
have done, and could not do so while the present system
of government continued. The almost unanimous opi-
nion of the public in favour of a change wag founded en
a conviction that India ha-1 been greatly neglected, that
its resources had not been developed, and that the coun-
try had been kept in a disgraceful condition. The com-
mercial interests would not stand any longer the non-
development of the products of Indic, and the want of
eff to bring them to the aid of our manufacturers.
There must be changes in the administration of the laws,
fiscal changes, changes in the military organisation; and
were these' he asked, changes to be entrusted to the
handa cf those who had brought about the present state
of things? It was now 12 months ago since he proposed
an alteration of the system, aid he hoped, after what
had recently occurred, there would be no further delay.
The motion was then agreed to.
Their lordships adjourned at half-past 10.

HOUSE O COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
. .

The bilowingbidi were road a third time and pa;sed:
Burghead Harbour ; Maneheater A.,s;z j Court
House ; Manchester Itnprovemant ; and Tay Fisherieß.
The Birmingham Canal Navigation Bill and the Vale
cf Towy Railway 131113 were further considered and
ordered to be real a third time.
ADMISSION OF JEWS TO PARLIAMENT.

Mr. NEWDEGATE corrected an error into which be
fell on a former occasion relative to the Jews of Prussia.
stated on the occasion referred to that Jews were
not admitted to the Prussian Chamber of Depu-
ties, but from information he had received from
Prussia he found they were admitted, and he
took that oppo: tunity of correcting the err r alluded
to. He complained, amidst the impatience of the
house, of statements having been attributed to him in
reference to the Jews which he h,.d never uttered.
ORDERS OF TUE DAY.

Mr. WA.LPOLE, in the temporary absence of the
Charcell.,,r of the Exchequer, moved that on and after
Thursday. the 13. h day of may next, ordera of the day
or. Thuraday4 simouind have;" zrectedenee of notices of
motion.

Mr. W. WILLIA\IS objected to the motion on' the
ground that the business of the house did not rtquire
such a sacrifice on the part of independent member,?.
This was the first time he ha 1 ever known a similar
motion made so early in the session. The Government
had no important business before the h )use that rtn,
tiered the motion necessary.
In rep), to a que,tion from Mr. BRIGHT,
Mr. WALPOLE said that the object of his propos-
ing the motioa before the house was to facilitate the
progress of the Church-rates Bill and the Joint-stock
Companies Bill. It would not be a Government night,
but an open night. (Flesr, hear.)

After some remarks from Sir G. GREY and Mr. M.
GiusoN, _

The motion was agreed to.
The SPEA.KER announced that, in consequence of
the motion jolt agreed to, hon. members might fix the
motion until TusAay, 18th May.

civil an military, referred to in the question, he could
only say that some of t•iem were exercising military
commands in connection with their civil appointments,
and of course, if they distinguished themselves, they
would be recommended f )r distinction by the Comman-
der-in-Chief. The civil officers came um-I.er the attention
of the Governor-General of India, who had the power
to award distinctions and rewards.

In answer to a question from Sir H. VERNEY,

Mr. BAILLIE • said that about a month ago the
noble lord the President of the Marl of Control wrote
letters to some of the most distinguished of the Indian
princes, thanking them, in the nama of her Majesty, for
the services they had rendered under circumstances of
great peril in India.
MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.

Mr. SPOONER moved that this house do resolve it-
self into a c +mmittee to consider the Acts for the
Endowment of Maynooth, with a view to tha withdrawal
of any endowment out of the Consolidated Fund, due
regard being had to vested rights and interests. The
hon, gentleman said he should not inflict on the house a
lonre7epeech. (Loud cheers.) He had so often addressed
the house on this subject that it was difficult to intro-
duce anything new into the debate. (Hear, hear, and
cheers.) He, however, entered generally on the
subject, and, in conclusion, called the atten-
tion of the house to the fact that the Synod of
Armagh had recently passed a resolution similar
to that passed in 1853, that the priests, under the direc-
tion of the bishops, should interfere in the election if
poor-law guardians and members of Parliament. They
had heard lately a, great deal about foreign interference,
but what did they say to this interference of the Pope
He urged on the house the necessity of their consenting
to his motion. (Cries of Divide.)
Mr. WALPOLE. as neither of the hon. members who
bad given notice of amendments had proposed them,
rose to oppose the motion on two grounds—first, that
when a great questioe had been settled by Par-
liament it was not wise to disturb it, unies4 it was
clearly proved there were great objections to it, and he
was inclined to think the benefit expected to be realised
I from the change would be more than counterbalanced
by the great evils that would result from the
agitation of the question in Ireland. His steeled objec-
tion was that, when Sir It. Peel proposed the grant, he
called it, in emphatic language, the " message of peace
to Ireland." Whether it deserved that designation to
the full extent he would not then consider, but of this he
was sure, if they succeeded in repealing the grant, it
would be considered by the people of Ireland as a re-
versal of that policy, and lo )ked upon almost as tanta-
mount to a declaration of war. He therefore could not
consent to the motion.

Mr. NEWDEGATE, amidst loud cries of "Divide,"
and the impatience of the house, spoke in support of
the motion.

After a few words in reply from Mr. SPOONED,
The house divided. Tte numbers were—
For the motion
Against it
Maj irity against the moti )n --55
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL v. LORD VIVIAN