The Sun.
London, England, 1804-04-28 00:00:00

IRISH LOAN.

The House, pursuant to the Order of the Day,
resolved into a Committee of Ways and Means, Mr.

ALEXANDER in the Chair.

Mr. CORRY rose, and said, he felt it unneces-
sary to trespass long upon the time of the House,
by going at any length into a statement of the Esti-
mates for the Expenees of the year in Ireland, a
great part of which having been already voted.• It
was necessary for the present only to state, that as
the permanent charges upon the Irish Establishment
for the years past, had in some degree exceeded the
appropriated Funds, it bad been thought proper to
borrow a Loan of 1,250,0001. to be raised in Ire-
land, to hake up the deficiency. It was impossi-
ble at this moment for. • him to state minutely the
particulars of the Increased Expenditure of the Pub-
lic Service for Ireland, both here and in that Coon.
try. A considerable sum for those Seryices had
been already voted, and much remained to be voted.
It was only his purpose at this time to move for a
Loan of the small sum. of 1,500,0001. which sum
had already been contraaed tor in Ireland, subject
to the approbation of Parliament, for which it was
his intention to make provision in the Ways and
Means, when that subject should come before the
House. The terms on which this Loan had been
made were at s per Cent. to commence from the
25th March last. The bidding was made ..on the
20th of. April, at the rate of wt. 7s. 3,1. for
every tool. pail ; but in order to cover the prin.
Cipal, interest, and bonus of 1,250,0601. it be-
came necessary to borrow at least 1,404,0001. ; and
according to the above rates, the exact interest per
cent. 'would be 51. 125. 4d. Towards the pay-
ing off of this Loan, a Sinking Fund was to be
created, which, including interest, would be
84., 27 11. per annum. One thing he begged
leave to state, which was certainly extraordi-
nary, considering the existing state of Credit be-
tween the two Countries, namely, that the above
bidding was at the rate of 891. cash for tool. stock,
which, considering that the Funds in Ireland were
at 5 per cent. brought the present bidding for the
new Loan within z per cent*. of the market price of
the oid ; and this would appear the
.more exrraordi.
nary, as the price of Irish Stock in the London
market, on the day of that bidding, was only 801.
a circumstance to shew, that 'the present was a Loan
upon terms as advantageous as could reasonably be
expected, considering the state of existing circum-
stances. He concluded by moving, " That a sum
not exceeding 1,404,0001. he granted to His Ma-
jesty, for the service of Ireland, for the current year,
to be raised by Loan."—Agreed to.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
On the Motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
CH EQU Eit, the House resolved into a Committee of
Supply, and the different Estimates relative to the
Army being referred. to the' 'Committee,
The SECRETARY at WAR rose to move the ne.
cessary grants under the head of Military Ser-
vices. The Estimates now to be voted were,
he said, the supplementary ones, and, with the ex-
ception of the charges for the Militia of Ire-
land, not now' included, the Estimate's for the
present year were of the same nature as those of
the last. The Estimate for the pay and cloathing
of Volunteers was 730,0001. The rest were much
as before, and the only thing added, was for Foreign
Corps. With respect to the Augmentation of the
Army already proposed, by an addition of new bat-
talions, it had been stated so fully to the House on a
former night, as to render any detail on the subject
now unnecesdry. There are, besides, certain ad..
ditional Corpi for the Service both of Great Bt itain
and Ireland, the estimate of which, for the former,
was 30,0001., and that for the latter 70,00001. The
only other item, whiCh it seemed particularly neces.
sary to notice, was the Foreign Corps. In the last
year, the H6use voted for the continuation of several
Foreign Regiments in our service, as De Rolles',
the Queen's German Regiment, and some others ;
the only addition now is, the Queen's German Le.
gion, consisting of 5000 .Hanoverian Troops, of
which number of 4000 are already raised, and the
remainder expelled to he completed in a little time,
all disciplined men, and well uaed.tci service. The
whole of these Foreign Troops together, would
make 7 or 8000 men, and thoke the only ones in-
cluded in the present estimate. The next item on
which there was a difference from the Estimate of
last year, was the alloWance to Itinkeepes in, Scot.:
land, arid which, the nature of the public services,
and' the circumstances of that co.ontry/Con.sidered,
he ttusted would be deemed but 'reasonable.' 'The
ic,t of k he items were in the ordinaTy course,. and

not requiring any particular• observation. Unj,ser
the head of Barracks in Ireland was 4.61,8001.
next item was for the new Military Establishment;
in this Country, the Royal Military College an, •
Asylum ; the one for educating young men, t°;
sons of Officers, desirous of a regular military edu'
cation, with a view to the service ; the other, for ,
the children of soldiers who may have fallen in the
defence of their Country. The sum necessary
complete the buildings was 32,6001. In the tatter
establishment, it was intended to provide for soot
'children; but the number as yet did not exceed 600;
and the former required some new arrangemenls;-•
under its present regulations it was required Oaf.'
+Ol. should be paid' with each pupil indiscriminate-
ly ; but this, even though a small sun, was found
to be incompatible with the circumstances ofemant
deserving Officers, who were desirous of advael'
taging by the Institution ; and, therefore, it Was
intended to open the Establishment upon a scale
of expence proportioned to the circumstance*
of
11“
of the parents, and "to educate gratis those ,s
could not afford. to pay any thing ; beside, as rt
was desirable to add the advantages of an Ordinal
edecation to those of a milietry one, it was inters
ed to accommodate, both under the same roof,
provide apartments for masters, &c. and form a 5:
miler arrangement to that at Great Marlotv. The('
was one more head, under which the expence
indeed of very considerable magnitude, nameir,Yl
that of Barracks. But though the sum was ue-,;#
''
doubtedly large, yet when it was considered, t";
by such an arrangement there would be a very n();
siderable saving, under the head of lodging-104n;
barrack.bire, stapling, &c. he trusted the sav'e°';
would in a very Brea; degree warrant the exoen,..s.i.
The hire of B. 'racks in the last year already
te
5,250,0001. and in tl.e Barracks already built, elle,
was accommodatioa for z 6,000 Troops in canto;
ments along the Coast, and the estimate for tilers,
Barracks was 1,534.,0001. including premises purcliawae
ed. The contratt was now before the House, antiantiof.
framed from a plan which. met the approbati°ll.
sti
Military Men of the first experience. The w9r
were to he subject to the contreul of a Barrac,ica,„
,master, who was to judge and check every pros
to
t:e
ing of the Centrattor, and without whose ceriiv,4
no money was to be paid to any Cootraftor•a,...
Besides this, the public would be completely go'r,
edagainst any loss fOr waste of time, extraordinable
wages, or debts contracted, as the work was tc)eel
measured., and both that and the materials C"10
fdr et the ordinary rate -of the vicinage. wileo
such buildings were to be ereeled, unless it Were . nee
very remote situations, where extraordinary Ore;
dition should be required, and where 'it would `,e
but mist to make a reasonable allowance, when
Con:ratios was unavoidably subje4ed to extraota%
nary expence, either in conveying his men to
considerable distance, or paying an extraordiria7.
price for materials or labour. bHaving stated thro
much for the satisfastion of the Committee, .0%
should be ready to give any further
which Gentlemen might require, He c°''C'n.
with moving, fc That there he granted, for 1113 C art
of the United Kingdom called Ireland, for ti''el
cruising, 98,0001."
Mr. Fa/enters inquired if, in the rrese°d
mates, the Forces in India were conep"eem.l
would
The SECRETARY at WAR replied, they.v,
appear by the Accounts to be included. ncy io
Mr. FA ANCIS remarked on the inconsiete -i.q,
the" reasoning of the Right Hon. Gentlemanin
ended
spec to the Barracks. The expence eg-
all reasonable computation, and deserved the ser`rA,
attention of the Heuse ; the extent of the Cb4(74
did not at all correspond with the expedients sekibii4,
n.
to have bee resorted to for the purposes of 139 ere
economy, and if some satisfaCtory explanatitire
not given, he should think it right to stibmiE.. alas
abuses which had prevailed, to the attention

House. 1/6.
imoi,pvtefoawnsr.aceacectslsivioecn:olci;niuttchins
je,stliYtcyrweeucnfil:i
The SECRETARY at WAR said, among t„i
roltEgdhnenasocst
Encampments.
i3hei)ittilishar eeamncyßkteesaasr.rsy,ru,anrceleokt:
the
Eesiotssanci
reaoa,
riar.ata liiiv:si
al rerci
epoecl:(ic:iflic, k
i. , f i
mature to give any
charge in this impDrtant and .necessatY
decisive opinion on thee',' as .;
servicgi,
the accounts are not yet made up, by whicli ill4C,iecrtil'
ti.ion must be guided. With respell to the eltori
tion of the Works, if the Right Hon• Ger''' eld pc
which those doubts originate entertains any d'oubts on that subjett• it I°l.l from
candid it he would advert to some p iftiCtle.„l44r,93 14
discover
ihsictleirolavib:tal
had und!rstood nothing of the kind irt(,; 1-1°:
Barrack Office, and 'he trusted that 5--,;/01:111
ginate ; he' conv-em (ha
satrnien:agott just:ia' ,n
ie ri i,iaf further
1 ground
nr
the
hi,-sq:
same
f je:c
eY: 9'o: lit n
li'l,, eti ; ell
oer
r
terlyemtGlgeterre,retnesattleeivnsm, at
curing the interest of t;le public, and providing on
the exigencies of the Contrador. rhe SCI to
which the engagements are made, admit the lartde for.
the benefit of instalments, and he i 9 also entitle der,
o .mney on account in the progress of his tl.? the
taking ; but twelve per cent. is retained .tintideott
conclusion of the business, to apply to anY , ~of
that may be discovered either in the qu.rti(4o
:the materials, or the strudur6 of the editlce's,,f a
payment is made excepting it be authorized wlv,
certificate of the officers appointed to surve4 re,
buildings, and bad materials are ordered to
nagell,
moved, and unsubstantial eredions to be Price,
down. No day-work is charged at a fixe4 1:„oia.
but the price is regulated by the rate of labon' r,f,
in the tespedive counties where the service' ° isoribie
formed. With these precautions, it is no 010
to suppose much negida can arise, or that the, Pavo,,,
money is employed without a correspondiq ° '
cage from its application. id on °III!
Colonel Ca'AuFoir. signified, he shot,-,-,1( - • t.. 6
ing '
fulake day, take' an oppurtu nitx of ex.,Eg's- expo
neglea of Ministers in every .branch Of the
dilute for Military Purpuses: he
de off-
kra. if. SMITH lamented the magnitu
sidoc,
burthen in the Barrack Department, and „'"ticalan
that, contrary to whit the Right Hon. tier' b;ec,
: q to 0 A; ,
had stated, the Present plan was sub.re.‘•, the. 1°
tions, both on account of the public anu t by
. le fat • ay
. dividual., He would mention 'a; sing , the 13 ,
Which i; would ;he interest or A small
ppcar,ital. - ('' ,ur-
was not very sedulously consu
and was
1 Contraticl delivered in hiJ account,
.- -
- ,

. . .
. ,
prized to find a gross deduftionmade in it. He
applied to the Barrack.office to be informed of the
particular items to which the deduCtion referted ; it
was in vain that he remonstrated ; he could obtain
no explanation, and he was at last 'told that it he
would not take the amount thus seduced, he might
bring his aftion. Although the deduelion ex-
ceeded the. 'amount of his profit, yet the whole
affair was so small, that he could obtain no
redress by bringing an adion at the expence
of sot. or 601. The Honourable Member was of
opinion, that the large discretionary powers given
to the principal- Barrack-officers, was neither con-
sistent with public policy or private convenience ;
but at least it would be expeded, where they have
such extensive confidence reposed, that they would
use it with some moderation, and not only avoid in-
justice, but the appearance of it,
by explaining to
a creditor their objedion to his claim.
The SECRETARY at PP A R explained, that the
Leneral charaaer of the Officers to whom the Bar.
tack department was assigned, would incline him to
avoid hastily concluding that they were culpable in
the particular to which the Hon. Gentleman ad-
v.,rted. All the correded Accounts he had seen in
the course of his official duties., had the ground of
objeftion stated on the face of the Account, against
the Item to which it applied. If the Hon. Gentle..
man would privately communicate the circumstance
of the grievance to which he adverted, the matter
should be examined, and any just ground of com-
plaint should be immediately removed.
The following Resolutions, on the amount; to be
devoted to particular services, were then put and
agreed to :
For 'Supernumerary Officers, . .
•
Increa&ed rate's of Subsistence to Soldiers and Inn 36,464
keeper.:, .- - - ;
British Officers on Half-pay, 5,464
- . - 1 - 489,268
Chelsea Hoz..pltal,
Reduced Half-pay Officers on the British Establish. 245,000
ment, - , - - -
Militia Officers, - 5665-
- . Chelsea Pensioners, in and out, - 5°,000
245,45
barracks for Ireland, ,: - - - - -
46t,31
•lospitals, - -
-
-
'Volunteer Cavalry, . - - 22,5o0-
Further charge for Volunteer C 500,0.i0
Corps, -
Foreign Corps
.. - 582,216
Military College,s7o,noo
•
- - -
Military Asylum, 14282-
32,600
ekugmentation of the Military. Forces in Ireland, 20°,°°°
Garrison Seryice, in the; West Indies, _ -
,48,8z0
Barrack Department of Great Britai, - - 2.0;82:693232
Recruiting, - - Increase for the Commissary-Cenera- lof Stores (not
Usually in the Estimate) -
-
The' CHANCELL
-,R 330,0°45
cf the EXCHUUER ob-
es of served, that the excess hat year in the Extraordi-
lad the Army would not appear, under the
existing circumstances, at all extravagant, when he
flitted it to be 339.0001. He then moved, that it is
then pinion of tois Committee, that there he applied
to the Extraordinary Expences of the Army for the
year 1804
In Cteat-Britain • -
k. 1,400,000
In Ireland - -
-
i300,0c0
EXpences of the Journals of the House, a-ncl other
33,643
incidental Charges, ..
Alien Offices, - -
8537
-
repairs of Military -Roads in North Briiain - - 5300
Board of Agriculture
- 37:
-
Civil Establishment in Can-ada - - )in Nova Scotia - 7165
txtraordinary Expellees of Prosecutions - - 3309
Civil Establishment in New Brunswick - 4660
in Prince :idwattl's Island :.Yoe
4
in Cape Breton • 200-
in tvewfoundland
in Bermuda - - 37,5• 580
in Dominica - - Coo
. in Nesv Walee • -
IMprovements in the two [lousesSouth of Parliament, and oo
~• in the Speaker's House, t 0,069
_ -
vublic Record Offices _ -
Repairs in the King's Bench Prison
for the Lazaretto in Kent, under the Ad
These Resolutions were put and agreed to.
. CALEDONIAN CANAL.
Tine CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
sh
all again rose.—" The only remaining Resolution I
now submit to the attention of the Committee,
!elates to What has been called the Caledonian Canal,
l_ritended to conned the Eastern and Western Seas by
Inverness to Fort William, for which the sum of
25)0001. has been already granted. It will be imme-
diatelyt:d seen, that this is a concern of too much magni_
e to be undertaken by individuals. This vast inter.
sedion a tilt Country
plan of o is not robe on the contratied
adls for Inland Navigation; it
i 3 in actor'le c.O
to admit the passagener
Frigates
on a superior scale, and
are many local considerraittantess guns. There
sobjeft which should no coof n3n2e tt e d with this
t escape the attention of the
tom
Tt
rheea
syuerayr
is.
Igor the Lords Comm
to he
sioneti of the
taken of that part of the Birgeltillaenddsa Sbuyrvme
yr. Tel_
!Toyed The Sprin and e •
nsuing Summer were em-
ployed on this duty. D .
tiring the last Session ,the
report was made, and the House •
in consequence
doptcd the measure.
Commissioners were then,
under the same authorit awho pursued
their inquiries with •-. y, a. ppointea, _
they,
were
assisted
bbreatcdiltgence and ability, and
s ofentlmat2 pertealy con-
versant in undertakings 'this kind, from whom
they derived the most valuable information. The
Report was dir
eded to two princi ,al ob. Cl •
1. je s ; the
importance, and the prallicabil• ity of the work. The
expence was stated at [tern 4. to 'c 1. The
zeal of tile Country has been 3 °'°°°
f
SO
_great to or-
Ward the projea, that in many instances the
land for the Canal has, been offered free of all
expence Among the motives, I must not omit
to notice the considerable • • • from
Highlands, emigrations the
which this improvement is calculated to
Prev I beg it may nt be supposed that this
emi:ration is id 3
1
any degree to he attributed to
l the negled of the great Landed Proprietors.A -a
riet
N -
y of causes have cond.
ace. d to inclined the
High.
!antlers to abandon their of Government, as
much native soil, and it is the duty
as possible., to remove these,.
that this gallant and valuable body of 'en May be dis-
posed to listen. to t!le din
patriotic
atc3 of their own .
I feeliegs. This '
great natiotial work will provide em-
Itollyment for a great number of the people of that
Y 9 and it is expteted that the blessings of
CoMine . -
1, Re dr)(1 of the Arts will emanate from the
same spun and i• t, tfDase not only the means of bare
il , tent g'
1 nce, but
the comfottFt conveniencies, aed
luxuries - • .
es
of life. I think I sheUld detain the
i p
louse imp, 1 1 ,
Were I to dwell longer on the
importan - ° 'el
) I
Ce of this measure ; I shall tht!refoie con,
Elude with •
prorn„t„. the
, moving, " That so,oool. be granted to
tins!!' ' lnland Navigation of Scotland, by a
tkcipassing Inverness "''`i For f \V-111- -and • .
4% the Eastern and Western Sea."
tam, con.

12,345

74'
- 2,010
- 30,000

.. . .
The Resolution being agreed to,,ilie House Was
reiutned, and on the Motion being put from the
Chair, the Report of the Committee of Supply was
ordered to be received to-morrow: