The Sun.
London, England, 1803-08-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF PEERS,

MONDAY, AUG. 8.
Tire sfveral Bills upon the Table were forwarded
in their re,peEfive stages.
A number of Bills were brought up from
Commons, chiefly by Mr„VANSIIJART among
whieh were, Lord Ainittirst"s Annuity Rill, the
Prize:Money Regulation, the Irish Glebe Houses,
the Neutral Ships, the Wines Prizage, and the.
Irish Cnstoms Regulation Bills, These were seve.
rally read a first time,
The Earl of WESTNiOaLANG moved,' that the
Order which stood for this day, for taking into
consideration the Standing Orders No. 26 and tsg,
be adjourned till 'to-morrow, and the Lords smn.
cloned thereopont which was ordered accordingly.
The Earl of Sl,l 'FOLK observed, that being
Lather indisposed at present, he should beg the in.
dulgence of their Lordships in permitting him to
withdraw his notice for the Motion he had intended
to bring forward this day. As he had just beard
the House ordered to be summoned to.morrow, he
should take the advantage of
.the attendance, which
such a prOceeding was likely to bring, and submit
Ms intended Motion to.morrow, as welt as deliver
his sentiments upon a subjeft which he conceived of
the frst importance at present, namely, the general
defence of the Country.
Lord HOBART expressed h:s wish to learn the
nature of the Noble Earl's 'intended Motion.
Th. Earl of SUFFOLK replied, that what he
proposed to submit to the Nouse, in the shape of a
Motion, was for the aPpointment of a Military,
Council or Committee, with, a view to the better
dirthion of the means of defending the Country,
and far the :assistance of Royal Highness
,the
Commander in Chief, in the execution of leis ardu,
otri and important duty.
After a short private conference between his
Lordship and Some of the PCOS oil the IVlinisterial

_ .
Bench, , •
The Edrl of SUFFOLK proceeded to his place,
and rising, observed, it was his wish by every
means in his power to accommodate Noble Lords : ]
Os it seemed. to be the desire of some that he should.
them go on, he would, indisposed as he was, deliver
his sentimemts on the occasion as well as he could.
The Noble Earl then,' in a. ,speech' of considerable
*kiigth, and, consisting, the.greater part,, of re.
fereeice or detail, delivered his sentivocnts upon the
important topics under consideration ; to • follow
o,hich would be impraXtaattle, we therefore cootent
ourselves with 3, general .display of: thq leading
points. rrs'tlie outset his Lordship noticed, that
ha was that day to have waited on the Minister of
the Country upon the sulljed It would he in the '
recollation of the he observed, that some
weeks ago he broUght forward the.,present topics to
the consideration of their Lordships; ,since that
period, as he hadinentinned his intention of skiing,
he. had been to his estate, and among his tenantry,•
whOse intentions he sounded as to their coining for.
• ward voluntaiily in defence of theirCountryihe found
thr.n. on'this head, patriotic and full of energy as he ,
totild wish, not,w,as such- a spirit
,confined to his
own tenantry ; the inhabitaots of the neighbour..
log parts of Wiltshire seemed animated with the
eistsitl% fitting and impulse : A numher of men, t
the amount of between 'z and soon, appeared will-
ing t,t enrol, and to place themselves under his corn.
tttatul; the measures he' took in consepumce, and'
what Murk, him in the way of argument upon the.
aiobjecl, he should presently state. The Noble Forl
proceeded to obset ve,ilhit so impressed wits he with
the, sentiatchts he 1; d ,141 rd on a former occasion on
these 'topics, that he solicited and had the honour of
obtaining an audience of Ids Sovereign : He there
deliVeretTalotter to His Majesty, containing his sen.
6.aents respeCtirig the defence of the Country, anti
this'Letter he took the liberty to accompany with a
variety of notes illustrative and explanatory upon
the subjeft. However, notwithstandieg he took
these steps', and afterwards made the repres,entation
et other (patters, where. he thought 'heat Most,
likely to produce the desire's! 'effett, no Military
Committee or Council was appointed. The Noble
Earl then adverted to the steps taken by him to
represent the matter to His f(oyal, Highness. the
Commander in Chief,. and thwe representations in.
eluded the affair of the Williegness of his tenantry,
Sic. He thought such at laudable and ardent spirit
thc old not he suffered to cool. He therefore; we .
believe, principally in a letter to Colonel Clinton,
the Secretary of His Royal Highnessp represented '
the circumstanees,, and in the quarter which he
thought the most regular anti most likely to accord
• with, his. wi3ll on the subjeti. He made 'inquiries,
this applicatioo, as to the 'means of disciplinhig
these, of providing them with arms, and to learn
Where they should apply for ;ammunition. He had
waited once or, twice on the Commander, in Chief,
in the isopeof' obtaining an interview on thcsubjat,
but,,,as it ;turned our, without effat. On one of
theae: occasions he 'understood the Noble Secretary
of State awas then conferring with his Royal High.
netts on a sobjeCt certainly of the highest import.
once, In consegneoce of what took places he was
Induced to trouble His Royal Highness's Secretary
with the. Letter above alluded to, and from which
he read Some exttads. To these representations
he'received no answer.' This circumstance, how.
ever, never led bins to harbour an idea the least
diirerpettful of, the Commander, in Chief; on the
contrary, he was well convinced of the talents and
4Shitialty• of Ilia Royal Highness in the executitin of.
his arduous and important pace; but his Well.eon.
olered opinion was, andit was this principally in.
t3ge<l hint to come forward to Parliament upon the
alibi" that it was totally out of the power of any
one individual, horrever exalted his professional
merit; or extensive his powers, to attend, in the
reserit.circumstances,of theConntry, and with such
irprecedentedly numerous force on foot, to ail
the necessary funaion's which: their diration and
command regniretts . was aettiated by no eon-
shieratiou whatever derogatory of the competence
alid ability of bis Royal highness, or wish ,to int»
pede the measures of ilia .Maje,4o Government,
or of hostility to the present Ministers, He thought
tnoq favourably elf the first,: wished to'give every
tncihtty io his power, to the second, and support to
the tht!,:d.- was iris mute of its being impossible

for one individual adequately to discharge these
important ftindions which induced him to come for.
ward. It may be„ alledged against his preposition,
that his Royal. Highness- was sufficiently assisted
with the advice and co.operation of hie Staff, when.
ever he thought fit to apply for it-rthat he had
the Quarter-master General, and the Adjutant Ge.
neral, to recur to whenever he thought necessary.
Respedably as he might think those offices filled, he
was of opinion the arduous and extensive duties of
their own separate departments, was sufficient for
the exertion of their powers. 'ln considering these
topics, his Lordship observed, he.was unavoidably
led to the repetition of much of what he had ad.
vanced on a former occasion on the same bead.
The experience of the benefits of the Military;
Council in France, which led to their brilliant and
repeated Continental vidoties, should be considered
by their Lordships.. That Committee or Council
consisted of but few members, but it was composed
of the most intelligent military men in France:
Carnot was 'one of its leading Members. Their
elevation of the well known General float was a
striking circumstance : while yet a Serjeant of
Grenadiers and a very young man, that Officer pre.
tented a Memorial to the Committee, respelling
the best means of terminating the War in La Ven.
dee, which struck the Committee as being so prep.
neat with Sound sense and military genius, that they
represented to Robespierre, who 'then had the chief
dirediou of afrairsi the expediency of elevating
Hoche to command. lie was accordingly very
rapidly promoted, was.soon after chosen to com.
mand in La Vender, where it was well known how
he conduded himself, and afterwardachosen to,cOm.,
mand the -projeded expedition to Ireland, where,.
had. he -landed with a ,farce exceeding twenty
thousand men, their Lordships 'would conceive
what might have been done, when sn much was.
achieved in
.that Island by Humbert, an Offices,
infetior in talent and enterprise, at the head onlyof
nine hundred or a thousand 'men. With respell to the
appointment of'a Military Council for the assistance
of the Commander in Chief in. this Country, he
scarcely knew how it could be objeded to, when it
was considered that many of. the leading Offices of
the State had Boards or CotMcils to assist their de.
liberations. For instance, the. First Lord ,of she
AdMiralty had a Board of Commissioners to assist
him: The Noble Lord on the Woolsack had the
Judges to recur to for assistance in his delibcrations.
The Prime Minister himself had the assistance and
advice of the Cabinet Council; ant so it wail in se.
venal other cases. Why then should the Military
Commander in Chief be'alone deprived of the assist-
ance and advice Of his Cooncil ? It was by. no
mean's his (the Noble Lord's) idea that the ',opera.
tioos of His' Royal Highness should be in the least
shackled or contraaed by the Military Cisurica, or
even that they should possess the least controul over
him. !le could recur to them fur assistance or ad.
vice, but would beat full liberty td follow that ad.
vice or not. However, in the present 'cireum.
stances of the Country, he
,deemed it inure ne-
cessary that the Military Coirirnander in' Chief
should have assistance and advice, than any other
of the Officers he had alluded to. With them
an error of a false step 'Might be easily retrieved.
In Military operations such might be Of a foal
tendency.--4his litivecver,, important as is was,was
not theonly topic on which he had to ttoubl,!, their
but one .point lw hid he .had advert
Lordships;
to was of uncommon delicacy-..l-1e sltiiid there.
fore nut comment upon it, a mere allthion wOuld,be
sufficient—He meant time offer of service which
he understood had been made h'y an illuitrious
: in considering this question, ii would be
Petson.age
proper ta recoiled that. His Royal. Highness was.
Col. of a regiment of Cavalry, and had no higher
rank in, the Army—a rank, which, how4ver, he
had held seventeen or eighteen years—if called
therefqre, he might. be placed under the command
of ant ffieer greatly his junior.---Alluding to the
great importance of the life of this illustriotis'per.
sonage,,it its be recolleded with pleasure, that
there were other Membem of that August Vamily
whom same, were ornaments of that House,
and an, honool7 to their Conotry.—On the sObjed
of Appoint ments to Command, and projeded, plans
of Defeoce, the Noble Earl made some obieesia.,
tions.—ln the former, he had to regret the.onaiss.
*ion of an officer so well etualifiedeas his,noble friend
(the .Earl of .MotaaLisdio commanded with so
much honour to himselG,and advantage to his court.
try in AMerica, where, at: the age of 25, lie perform.
ed the most brilliant and. heroic aCtions. America, he
observed, was a country, from its peculiar nature
and the difficult situations with which it abounded,
fit to form good Officers : many were trained there
the -War before last. The superior knowledge
which our opponents naturally possessed of the
Country, ,obliged even the inferior officers to
Vance with the greatest caution and circumspedion.
With yelped to the eredion of works at chosen
. ,00ts in, the vicinage of the capital, and the forma.
tion of lines in other parts of the country, he made
some remarks. 01 defence, by the mode of lines,
he seemed-to thilik unfavourably; he scarcely'ever
anew an instance wherein lines, especially if they
ran to any extent, were not ultimately forced. He
was proceeding to comment upon these topies, upon
which he thought some explanation should be given,
when

Lord HOBART rose and observed, that if the'
Noble Rill thought proper to proceed in such a
a line of observation and discussion, with respect to
which he would use his discretion.-.he should feel
it incumbent on him to mov.e the Standing Qrders
for the
.exclusiOn of strangers.—'—h shoultt be re.
,collected by the Noble Earl, that with reaped to
much of. what he had latterly said, he could not
fairly expect to be answered by his Majesty's Mi_
nisters-The present circumstances were obviously
such, as that 11/littisters'could not Consistently with
their duties, say what they intended to do, or not
to do. He would therefore parit' to the discretion
of the Noble Earl, but if the' latter persisted, be
should be under the necessity of Moving to enforce.
the order.

'The Earl of Sorroui and Lord llou Aar_ spoke
iin explanation—after which,
The Earl of SUPEOLK proceeded to bbwrve,
that he should then have to call the atiention of
th sir Lordships to t topic of a different naturi, but
Which, at the same time, was imp vrtant to the ge..

neral subjed of the Defence of the Country. What
he-alluded to, was the condu& of the City of Lon.
dun dn this head,: their Lordships would recoiled,
that when he last addressed them on the subjed, he
alluded -to certain Letters he had received, one of
which contained some strong assertions, and which,
if true, merited the most serious consideration.—
His Lordship then read some Extracts from the Let.
ter in question, and which seemed to contain some
severe strictures on the condud of those in power
and authority in the City, with respect to the share
to be taken by the. Wropolis in the General Defence
of the Country ; the original proportion of Militia
to be furnished, by the City of London, it stated,

as we could coiled, to be 12 or 14.,000 men ; this
force it said was commuted in 1796 for two small
Regiments of Militia, of, 600 men each. It no.
ticed the pairiotism and energy displayed by the
Volunteers in the first instance, who came-forward
to the -number of nearly 60,000, anti declared their

. . .
readiness to serve in any part the Kingdom ; this
'spirit was damped by the conduft of the Chief Ma.
gistrate, &c. who ordained that the whole force
should be divided into four grand divisions, and
should be ready to aet in case of Insurredion or
Rebellion, but in this Decree it appeared the word
" Invasion" was never once mentioned. The letter
in other parts appeared to reflex on the conduft
Of the Lieutenancy. of London with respell to the
quota to be furnished by the City, and comparing
it with the conduft of the provincial Deputy Lieu.
tenants, the former seemed, to proceed in such a
way as if they were ignorant such' an aft as the
Levy en Masse existed. Very, different was the
line of conduft observed. by the City of London,
in the memorable days of that illustrious Princess
Elizabeth ; it then came forward with spirit, ala.
criti, .and guided by motives of the pnrest pa.
triotism. Ships to three tim.-s the number of those
required by Government. as the' proportlon to be
furnished by the City, were speedily furnished and
equipped. Men' to three times the number required
as its quota, were raised and prepared for service,
in addition to which was a pecuniary contribution
exceeding so,oool. an. immense stun in those days.
He hoped, however, the present exertions of the
Metropolis would he commensurate , to the great
stake she has at issue, and in an increased propor-
tion to her present wealth and population.' After
recapitulating a few of his leading positions in
favour of the establishment of ti' Military. Council,.
• his Lordship moved to the following effed: " That
an humble Address he presented to. His Majesty,
praying that he would be graciously.pleased to ap.
point a Military Council of General Officers, and
such other persons as His,,Mgjesty should think pro.
per, and which His Majesty may have,Tecolisse to for
, advice, and which should also communicate with. Hit
Royal Highness the Commander in Chief from day
I
to day it necessary,' and also ivith.His.Majesty's
' .
Ministers.

On
the question being put; . •
Lord HO B ART rose and observed, that on such
an occasion he should certainly have to trouble,
their Lordships but foi a very short time. He had
heard the motion, respeaing which he must say, in
general hut distind.terms, thai,in his opinion, it it
was intended to impede the military disposition and
operations of the Cortimander in Chief, .no pro.
reeding could, be more likely 'to effect it, than the.
very measure recommended by the motion.. Under•
this convidion it was certainly his duty to resist it.
The present organization of the Staff was such as
to Etiswer every purpose, and while the arrange-
ments made under the superintendance of his Royal
Highness, and which met with universal approba-
tion must clearly evince, the measure recommend'
ed 'must -have the • injurious' effed he described
or else be. • nugatory, which, in the case of its
possessing no controul, it must incontestably
be. With' respect to the communication
made
by the Noble Earl relative to the disciplin-
ing and arming his tenants, he had to inform
hint he took a wrong cuutse—•the regular mode
would be to have represented the matter to the Lord
Lieutenant of the County, who would have duly
• communicated It to the Secretary of State—such
was the regular channel ; the cfteumstance of the
Noble Earl having received no answer, was no proof
,that his letters were not read, and their contents
duly considered. However the affairs had nothing
to do with-,the department of the Commander in
Chief: Besides his. Staff, that Illustrious Officer had
the advice an 4 communication of the District Gene,
. rals, who were Ltlly competent, from their local
knowledge and admitted abilities to afford it. In
addition to which GOvetnment were in possession
of the opinions of the various Generals who corn.
mantled last war upon all those important topics.
With regard to what had falleo from the Noble Earl
relative to the conduft of the City of London, on
the present occasion, it may be matter of just con
iderarion, how far the contents of such letters
as he had quoted from may be true,—and of the pro.
priety of making their contents public,Much
stress had better not be laid ,00 such communica..
tion.—ln his opinion, the Metropolis Was,making-
every fair and praiticable exertion in the general
Defence—and should the hour of trial ever coinei
it was his confident opinion, the City of London.
would not be found backward. He had to entreat
661 Lordships pardon for detaining theM longer
than he at first • tntended. As —to the MotiOni it
should certainly have his decided negative.
The Earl of SUFFOLK spoke shortly in expla,..
natioh, and repeated some of his former observa.
lions in favour of the appointment of
,a Military
Council, which he begged the Noble Secretary to
recoiled was proposed by him, ,to have no controul,
Whatever over the Commander in Chief, who would
be at liberty to, follow its advice or not. The In.
stitution, he ,proposed would .be of "essential service
even in time 'of peace ; then, on such an occasion as
the present, how necessary must be its adoption?
The .Each of B RIDG EW ATER in a very low
tone of voice made a few observations in support of
what fell from the Noble Secretary of 'State,
particularly WithrespeEl to the advantages to be de.
peed from the communications of the different
nerals. He could not, he said, give a silent dissent
from the Motion. • .
The question was then pot, when the Earl of
Smot.it's proposition was rejefted without a Di.
visiast^; and immediately after, their Lordships ad.
journed. till to.fitottow. •