The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-19 00:00:00

as
intosatisfied
exist .
wWi
tohr ktsh,eaonpdehr
met
iwo on us lodf ltihkee
bt oo
dask
he
hhoawd
called
ence ? The bill received the royal assent on the 14th of
August, 1855. It provided that before the 31st Decem-
ber, 1860, the whole of the works should be completed,
to prevent the sewage of the metropolis from passinginto
the river in or near the metropolis. They were now in
June, 1853, yet nothing bad been done except to pro-
pose three schemes, which all proved abortive. By the
first plan of the board the outfall of the sewage was to
be at Plumstead ; but as the whole of that parish was
within the metropolitan district the plan violated the
very act under which the board was constituted. He
wished to know whether the Government would take
immediate steps for remedying this great and crying
evil ; whether they could hold out some hope that this
immense metropolis would soon cease to be a scandal to the
country, and the focus and centre of disease and death ?
Lord J. MANNERS said the hon. member (Mr. Stir-
ling) had very fairly stated the course of events thus far
with regard to the Wellington Monument. In 1856 the
artists of all countries were invited to compete ; in 1857
the judges made their award, that award being signed
among others by Lord Overstone, the Dean of St.
Paul's, and his right hon. friend the member for the
University of Oxford. The judges selected the designs
for which they awarded the prizes without regarding the
question of their adaptation to the site which was than
indicated in the cathedral where it was intended to
place the monument, and they suggested, and he thought
most properly, that before they determined which, if
any, of the designs should be selected, the government
should consult some architect of eminence as to the local
effect which would be produced by the erection of any
particular monument in St. Paul's. When he came into
office no practical step appeared to have been taken be-
yond the presentation of the report of the judges. It
therefore became his duty to consider which of the de-
signs wren in his opinion, most worthy of being selected
for a monument in St. Paul's Cathedral. In all the dis-
cus-dons in that house upon art and taste hon. gentlemen
and noble lords were apt to dogmatise in a manner which
might be pardonable in Spanish Inquisitors pronouncing
on matters of Christian faith, but which appeared to
him singularly out of plaoe when they were discussing
matters of opinion ; and in stating the conclusion
at which he had arrived on this subject he wished
to guard himself against being supposed to claim infal-
libility. Under the circumstances he had thought him-
self bound to act on the recommendation of the judges,
that some one competent to advise on the subject should
be consulted as to the local effect which would be pro-
duced by the various designs. No one appeared to him
better qualified by position and accomplishments to give
advice than Mr. Penrose. (Hear.) They went over the
designs together, and the design which they both
thought the best was that known as No. 18, the design
of Mr. Stephens. They then considered the question of
site, and they agreed that the best site for the purpose
in view was the chapel at the west end of the cathedral,
which had hitherto been used as the Coneistory Court.
The dean and chapter had pl iced that chapel at the dis-
posal of the Government for the erection of the monu-
ment. (Hear, hear.) One great advantage would be
derived from the circumstance of that place being a
chapel. His hon. friend had pointed out most truly that
in former times it was not thought sufficient in such a
case as that under consideration to have recourse to
sculpture, but that the sister art of painting was called
in aid ; and the selection of a site which had been made
would enable them to act on that principle. (Hear.)
He proposed that the adaptation of the chapel and its
architectural ornamentation should be confided to Mr.
Penrose. He thought it advisable, acting on the re-
commendation of the judges, to call in the assistance of
some architect of eminence, and that those gentlemen
should form a committee to whom should be confided the
execution of a monument worthy of the great duke
whom it was intended to commemorate, worthy of the
state of English art in the nineteenth century. (Hear.)
With regard to the question put by the hon. member
for Guildford (Mr. R. Mangled), be was satisfied that
he was quite right in the answer which he gave to
a similar question the other day, which was, in effect,
that so far as the draining of the Thames was con-
cerned, the First Commissioner of,Works had no power
beyond that of vetoing any scheme which might be
submitted to him by the Metropolitan Board of Works.
The hon, member for Andover (Ar. W. Cubitt), after
adm;tting that he had no power over the Thames drainage,
had asked him whether he had done, or was prepared to
do, anything for the preservation of the health of mem-
bers while they were sitting in that house. He could
only say, in answer to that question that he had that day
received from Mr. Gurney a report in which he stated
what he proposed to do to carry out hia (Lord J, Manners)
wishes on the subject. Mr. Gurney raid—" Sir,—l do
not lose a moment in answering your letter received last
evening, requesting me to report to the First Commis-
sioner what is already being done to improve the condi-
tion of the river Thames, in the neighbourhood of the two
houses of Parliament, and alp what, if anything, I pro-
pose to do in the matter within my jurisdiction. With
regard to the river itself there is nothing done, nor can
Ido anything Before the meeting of Parliament and
during the recess the mud outside the terrace was re•
moved ; but during the sitting of the house and while
the river is in its present state, the accumulation cannot
be moved. In answer to your latter question, I beg to
say the insane by which I propose to relieve the river
(according to my report to the First Commissioner,
printed by order of the house, 12th Dec. last, Sessional
No. 21) is now under consideration of a committee of the
House of C3mmons. 1 think it right to state for his lord-
ship's information, that the air entering directly the
House of Peers and Commons through the proper venti-
lating channels is purified from the river effluvia by the
spray je's. For the purification of the air cawing in
through the windows of the House of Lords and Ooin-
mons, should either be opened, I have placed canvass
ruoieted with a weak solution of chloride of z.ne and lime.
The same is being fixed at all the windows likely to be
opened towards the river in the libraries and committee
rooms." He might inform the hou-e that, in accordance
with the recommendation of the noble lord the memberfor
Tiverton, which was concurred in by himself, Mr.
Gurney had been engaged all that Islay in distributing
through the Thames, in the vicinity of the houses of
Parliament, four or five boat-loads of lime, and in
spreading lime over the mud banks. (Laughter.) Such
was the simple means adopted fur the purpose of effect-
ing the object mentioned by the hon. gentleman, and at
present he did not know what more could he done. The
question raiscd by his hon. friend was a very large and
serious one. He had no hesitation in saying that in his
own opinion the provisions of the Local Management
Act in reference to the drainage of the Thames and the
veto given to the Fret Commi-sioner of Works were not
sati:faotory. There was a double government and a di-
vided responsibility of the most inconvenient kind. A
large body of gentlemen, elected by the popular voice,
were tied down by the words of an act of Parliament to
do a certain thing in a certain way, and by a subsequent
section they were prevented from doing that without the
approval of the First Commissioner of Works, who had
no means of obtaining the beat information on the cute
jest. The Board of Works had submitted to the right
lion. baronet opposite (Sir B. Hal ) various plans which
he had felt it his duty to reject. A new plan had, he
believed, been recently propo,ed by the engineer ( f the
Metropolitan Board of Works, but it had not yet been
brought under his notice. Some change ought to be
made, and he should be very happy to confer with any
one who could suggest any means by which a useful
change might be effected. The difficulty was this—if
the Government took upon themselves the drainage of
the Thames, at an enormous expense, they could not in
j uetice call upon the eastropode to pay for that drainage ;
while, on the other hand, if the -metropolis were called
upon to do the work, it was but fair that it should do it
in what manner it pleased. The responsibility and the
bumrdr.
en
J.
s. must\sb,eoißmipiosEedy bontihieeved t
onerat no g
rty or theother.
osp
t
would ever be taken with regard to drainage until the
relations of the Government and the Metropolitan
Board were placed on a more satisfactory footing, and
some one was entrusted with more discretionary power.
As regarded the monument to the Duke of Wellington,
he would entreat the Noble lord to allow time fur the
expression of the opinion of the artistic world and of the
community in general with respect to Vie decision which
he had announced. There was, he believed, a genera
itn•pres • eion that the designs exhibited were anything but
creditable to English art.
Sir B. HALL wished to say a few words with re-
gard to his own conduct in reference to the drain-
age of the Thames. Soon after the Metropolitan
Board of Works came into i x:stence they presented to
him a plan in which the outfali was within the metro-
politan area, and as that was contrary t ) the act
he felt it his duty to reject it. Soon afterwards
there came another plan, which he rejected on a similar
ground. Considering that both these plans were con-
trary to the provisions of the act, he thought it was a
wise arrangement that all plans had to be submitted to
the Firet Commissioner of Works. (Hear ) He than
felt it hie duty to put himself iu communication with
the Metropolitan Board of Works on the subject. Pre-
vl'u lY to doing so he obtained from the then Fret Lord
of Admiraltyuthe the assistance of Capt. Burstall, and
the result was that in December last there was submitted
to him a plan in which the outfall was placed at a suffi-
cient distance from the metr ipolis. He put that plan
in the hands of three of the roost eminent engineers in
the kingdom, who substituted for it an. ther plan. This
last plan he sent to the Metropolitan Board of Works,
with an intimation it was worthy of consideration. They
,did c ,nsider it ; they referred it to their own engineer
and two other gentlemen who were associateri with them.
Those gentlemen presented a plan to the Metropolitan
Board of Works, but instead of remitting that plan to
the noble loaf who succeeded him in office, they passed

a resolution deferring the consideration of the subject
till October next. He thought the titre was now come
when the Government bhould c n•ider whether they
.houhl ❑ot take this matter into their own hands and

appifint a commissi.n of qualißed per-ons to carry out
the obj,ct, subject of course to the approval of the Trea•
elll
large
.CsO thought t2o,ohoeo7.ubwlhicictihaadrigbhetetnoktlow
that
raised
sury.
Lord
th E
fur this mo nousirtnkuseEt, tLLsaLdhEo übytedrynhh
oe
urlagatihdhteotrlu,
athtai ntrhdael ryuivia dealtentur mannerwhich
iiwith
Metropolitan
would produce the moot effective result,
was not so easy t) purify the Thames ao
sane'le°dSratrittredhdjaotft VoiWth.e imagined. If, as the hon. member 'aid,
i
nt oP carry a f mainorit
drainage
should be an imperial undertaking, the metropolis
would be veryl willing
ngtoot
to b
be relieved
calledlieve dfroo m
The m
e tr
°pos g
far
THEbeyond N
limits.tAhlev.rAoßwnoFßAT
su.
Mr. COLLIER asked the President of the Board of
Control whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Go-
aj:affibeorf ASluirKath,
au
tvi
hoe
ertni
Judicial
the private
to
iivaal
tcerefer
no
petty
teitletecyloo,
fifmtthsheeof
pl
arNitlveeyeNrc
Council
?
Lord STANLEY did not think that the house wa,
very web inclined to go into the affairs of the Nawab of
Surat. (Hear, hear. There was a_ very_conaiderable