The Sun.
London, England, 1803-05-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

I

_ .
HOUSE OF PEERS.
itiDAY,' MAY
Cat/NUL were Nailer beard 'relative to the Scotch Appeal.
/f.ts,r,ri ERSOW Wad. Othert A ridg A Y viz.—Mr. H.
Err sKIN:: in cor.tinuition on the part or the Respondent.

. The further be.iring was adjourned till to-titorrow.
The Farts of 'B crest...ow EA LCA.kitts, two of the
Scotch Kepreeentative. Peerseand the.,Bislibp of DOWN, one
of the I 6s:it Spirituel RePresetitative Peers were sworn, and
-
took their seats. • •
The various Bills before the-House were forwarded in their
respective stages,
The Order being. yead frit the Commitment of the Bank
of Ireland Restrietiou 'Bin; 'their Lordships accOrdiegly reL.
solved into a Committeeosport the saute, Lord WA LSI kJ G.
si AM in the Chair, -
Part of-the Bill:Wee forthwith acceded to by the Com-
mittee. ,
Lord K tee took the first regular opportunity that pre-
senttei for proposing the int roduaton.of the. clause he
had given-notice of on t'Arn• formeroccasions I the substance
earl etKt of this Clause Was, to authoeise the Creditors dt
the Cove:Mire and Company of the Bank of Ireland, to com-
pel, by legal process, that. Corporation to pay them, tthe
amount of t heir 'demands in Bank of England Notre, at lowing
for the did-ciente of the Cuerency in Ireland. Theadoption of
this tot:ammo, thteNoble Lard contended, would in a great de-
gree remedy the evils prodecett in Ireland by the depreciation
of its currency, in consequence of the enormous circulation of
Bank Notes. He pointed out the tlifferenee between a real
and nominal eXchsnge, and .argued that the latter was by tio
• means so much against Ireland as was generally 'supposed ;
inasmuch as the ielttel ballance.of trade *timid he found to
be in ire favour.-- The causes of the unfaveurable state of the
Exchange with respeet to Ireland, arose, he contended,
chiefly, it not solely, from the great depreciationJof its-cur-
rency. The great objection against what he proposed was,
that it would tend to draw the specie out of the Catinfry :
this he could not think would be the case.--He was of opi-
nion that an adequate supply orßonk of England Notes-
could be procured.fey means of Bills of Exchange, and in the
way of ecentherce. He contended, that unleSs the eatises of
the depreciatien of its currency were done 'away, ,which his
propnsition would tend more than any other MeitStire, equall
imexceptionable, to do, the consequences mutt eventually
.he, ruinous to that Country;—The Noble Lord„Concluded
with moving his chime, which waeto the eKCI above stated.
The Marquis cf SLIGO said, oothltig could niore clearly
spew the difficult), of finding any. remedy for the grievance
tinder which the
Irish laboured in the high and increasing
exchange, than that a propesition should conic-front a Noble
turd, who had considered the subjedt so ,much with intent
to de it away, which was in do sort practicable, and which
if praetticable, by any poesible means, would leprodiiitiee
Af the most serious miechiefs: his Lordship said, he had
considered the suhjc a great deal, not only as a duty to Ire-
land, but also for .the purpose of giving such local informa-
eicnt..to their Loidships, as they might not otherways obtain
and by tieing of which, perhaps on such occasions, the seat
he had the honour of 611ing would he of most public •titilitv.
A Bill for confirming the Restrictions on the Bank of Ire-
heti could scarcely.have any• Clause added to it more entire-
ly inconsistent with its principle than that which was pro.
poo.d ; neither could his Lordship possible understand what.
elittereece there was between ;flowing the Bank to pay their
'epeagements with Cuineae, or with Notes front another
Country, which they must euy with Giii.reas. It would
ppen the Bank in the worst manner possible, by. aliowingall
foe .eercie to go out pf the Country, without circulating
any of it through it for its own Internal purposes.
Lordship said. the eliffieulty in considering money questions
arciee pertly from •not considering Specie like any other at-
tide of complex:es. 'fake it in that view, and much pf its
apparent eorttpije3ey Vanished. Oolti, it was very certain;
br,t,:t a proolikini of ebov,e e per cent. in Ireland above its no.
mittal wine in Bank Notes; "e r though he was not prepared
to say Paper us, not in some. degree of depreciation,' he
would not agree t hat it was• necessary consequence result-
ing from it ; and in the present instance.', he wee much in. •
dined to think it eels not the case; Specie it was well
keown, was indispansibly necessary, tier the -Linen Trade,
the great staple manufacture of Ireland, and not neeeseary,
from any preference .eiven to it alone he those who carried
on the mete, but from ether very good anr.l eufficient reasons.
With a lirnitrcJ rprintity of Free in the Country, it was
very itethrol; when intlispeuseily wanting any where, that
tho:se who chanced te hole what there was of it, should
ivc it au ieenteesed. value.. An horse worth 301. at Smith-
.. fide 1:.••t feonth, might be Nverth eel, now, without any de-
'pos.:ear:on in shc Notes of the hank of Englaert, arid the
eaneeareiretent ...you're apply to epecie. --His Lordship said,
that the high price ;of Bid hoe is Ireland, and the high ex-
.ehaege. egainst that Country, were both circumstances neuch
to he regretted; and yet though , in soma degree as
rouse they tended ro countereet, the mischiefs of
each other; and if it were poseible to remove' the tete eetli.
out the Other, it wriuld be attended with cOnsenuences the
"lruost le:items. The high value. of Specie for internal pur.,
Nee; kept the money in the Country,- whichaotherways
would be forced out by the hieh rremitun of the emchange ;
anti the high exchange reimbursed the merchaat' what he
had paid far Specie, without obliging him to adder° its
prices epees the ceneutrier. The exchange operated ai a tax
)Ipoll Al I ttlhiprtS, and as a Comity oe our rove tilaitofidure ;
end thus perleips it carried with it a kind of Sinking Fund,
;hat tit .lit ultimately do away a grieeinice in which it tars
'scarce pessible to find a direct remedy ; the prop°.
sets for which were so full of difficulty and danger, that in
hisenind it was better fir to Bear the ills we have, then taste
of others that we know not ore—With reseed to the C4tIS,CS
for the high exchange against Ireland, they were pretty gene-
raPy known : a great Military Establishment in times when
the Cotintry Was disturbed, het incurreclex pence, the means
ter which were neeceserily got out of it. The interest on
t hose Louis, great in comparison to the wealth of the Court-
and paid out grit, was one cause. Coale imported, and
amounting to near seven hundred thousand pounde a year,
one-113110f which wee used in Dehl:n, and paid for in NrieCie,
'eyes another cause. An increase of expense in those who
Wird out of; the Country, by the rise in every article 'of con-
semption, was another cause.. een . increase ofelroreigo
arcade, and every other natural CatiSC fur the haLnces of
trade, also operated ; end it was untinvitiately No true what
WaS aiVAnCed by the Noble-Lord., that Ireland had not
1:14.111cg i
of trade n her r4vuttr with any' Cotmtry in the,
\mitt. Stich were her present circumstances, hint he hoped
trusted with much bctter, prospects helore her.loidship said, there Was 011 P Point adV4llCOti, to which from
p.srsonal motives he.wes perticulerly anxious to allude - it
had he very industriously circulated, Ilt;it the -r.igh ..ex-
chauge againet I relend had he...n 00031011CCI ii iiiereaee of
-eebecitteee in conseeputirree of the ttnien, and that it wee
fife prica t pay- ror it. ills Lordship said,. the titni. xrac not,
$O, 41}ere vats no iilCfCatie of Aheentees worth oomph?;—that
lie never believed f he. Union, would inc.reese the A leseiftres,
and tfiat if tic had, 'he never would have voted for it, not
from regard to the paltry sum which a few individnals might
er:penrl, and eseich would be provided for by halt the value
of a Linen Ship, lett because' nothing could compen-
sere any Country- for the loss of its Resident Gentry.
The aim-mile of their lives,' the ericouregerneee. of. their.
countenance to jedustry, the proteetion of. the weak, end
t; cling and caorcing:a regular andltnpartial administration
of were dpries.wnich the Great owed to their situa,
twin.; they helniAcci to their residence, and the want,of them
no advantage could eoitneensete.
Lent K tun and the Margins of Set Go spoke severally in
'expiate:thin.
- The Eqrl,of L LITER ICK shortly, hut
decidedly expressed
his dieapprobetion of the:cletzse, on the grounds generally
weed by the NOW astertinis, and for the additional and im-
r,,,tant tqsoni that .its introduOion would entirely do away
gqd counteract the imenciert effeels of the bill ; the. purpose
of which. was, to rested') the !link of Ireland Illireaors from
iesuing.speeie.
The SOilfeeten wee then put, and the proposed Clause was
rieg:triveil without :t clivistun.
.rd hma then propoctet a second provision, which he
argued, would bi: attended *itli very salutary 044: it was,-
thate he Dieee.lorsesf the Bank of Ireland should be required,
at the *cud of every Month, to publish the Amount; am of
their Notes it, Cirenlatioo, In the Dublin Gazelte, This-
itroposition Wii3decidedly opposed by
. , •
The Earl:/ LIME!? fal.", and upon two general grounds:"
as it would tend to"east some degree of tenet-cm 0.1, a
Body of Meti, against 'whom, whatevpf• may be asserted, no
whatever of mistahclati '.v,4 iglablished; anti second.
he, ott Thu ground °fits' beine'etniertluous-As the Sessions
bf f' arliiltriciit of late 'were lcry long in this Country, hia
Lordehip Would leave frequent epportuhifieg' of !nuyi-ng for
Accort44 respecting the Non suestiori. • - , • .
fx; a few wards from Lord KING, the.Queetion %vomit,
;tuft rll4,proposed`Cleuse was'negatived;- their Piidships then
Wfni titratkli the remaining 1)1,0'4 the Bill, ancj the Hpur,4
reap,;: in,tl i4E4eltAith; ftcp9r.; Ixr rvccivoi 0444941:9w,.-;-
eldipornett..-,.

1

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AA," vu Sr. WA'
%of ViIXIVIW4Va•

at hi

THURSDAY, MAY 5.
Mr.'Lovii.REß brought up the Report from the
Committee appointed to try and determine the
merits of the Eledion fore Taunton. The Report,
after stating that the legal Returning Officer of. the
Borough was the-Bailiff chosen by 'the Court Leer,
concluded with determining, that the Sitting Mem-
bers were ,duly elected, and that the Petitioa was
neither frivolous or vexatious.
• The_ Order of the Day was read for going into a
Committee, to consider of making a better provi-
sion for the Schoolmasters'of Scotland,
The House having_ resolved itself into a Com-
mittee,
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND rose,
to move for leave to bring in .a Bill fr, making a
better Provision for this very aeserving, class of
persons. He commented upon, the great advan.
cages that had resulted to Scotland from their la.
hours with resped-to the morals of the People.; as a
proof of which, he said, there were. fewer crimes
-committed in Scotland, than in any other Country
in Europe ; and it was a notorious fact, that there
were more persons convicted of crimes in Manches.
ter iti one year, than there were in all Secitlarid in
the same .period. The prOviSion made for Paro.
chial Schoolmasters formerly was fixed thus : the
Minimum was too marks Scotch, or little asore
than 51. a-year, and the Maximum was 300 marks.
—A salary so small must obviously appear totally
inadequate to the purposes of subsistence, and in
proposing an increase, he thought the best standard
to take would be the average price of oat-meal, and
taking that "as a guide, he should propose that the
Minimum should be in future' 300 'marki, and the
M4ximum 400. In certain cases, where the Pa.
rishes were very large, and where one school would
not be sufficient, lie should propose`, that if the'He.
ritors could raise a salary of 600 m.oks, that two
or more schools should be instituted in the .Parish.
He concluded with moving for leave to bring in a
Bill fur making a better Provision for the Paro.
chial Schoolmasters of Scotland. •
Mr. DEN!' said, lie should not have troubled
the House, if the Learned Gentletnan had not Ira-
yelled out of his way.as far as Manchester. The
Learned Gentleman had stated, that there were
more persons convicted in Manchester •in one year
than in all Scotland, hut the Learned Gentleman
had forgotten to inform the House, how`many of
the criminals were furnished by Scotland.
The Resolcrion was agreed to,- and the House
being resumed, leave was given to bring in a Bill.
GeneraIGAG:OYNE moved, that there be laid
before the 1-louse an account of the quantity of
Coffee charged with the Duty of Excise for the last
seven years, and the amount of the Excise Duty ;
and alSo an account of the number of Prosecutions
instituted for frauds cotmoitted against the Excise.
Mr. VANSITTART eaid, that with regard to
the first part of the motion, he had no objection to
it, but with resped
,to the latter. part of it, he
doubted whether such art account as the Hon. Gen-
.tleinan required could be made up.
Mr. ROSE was also of opinion, that an account
'could not be made oat of the number of Prosecu.
tiers ; it would he better to move fiat the number
of fines paid into the Exchequer.
Mr. W. DUNDAS conceived that some ground
ought to have been stated for the motions because
certainly the House ought not to grant papers merely
to gratify Curiosity.
• Ginerai GACDY said, it was the wish of
the Merchantsrto have some information upon this
subject before the question cane on to he discussed
relative to the Consolidation of the Duties, and it
was upon that gtound he made the motion.
Mr. DUNeDAS said, that tlte Hon. Gentle-
Man having stated his --reason for the motion, he
should agree to it ; Ire merely meant to contend,
that; motions of this kind ought. not to he made
as maters of course, without any notice being
givens.

Dr. LAWRENCE contended, that Gentlemen
had a right to bring forward motions of this kind
without any notice, if they pleased ; and he hoped
ro see Motions- made for accounts • relative to our
Finance, our Commerce, and the state of our Navy,
and th'itt it would not be said to the Gentlemen who
•made the motions, that they were kluged merely
by Curiosity. •
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, that his
Hon. Friend had only contended, that when a Mo.
tion:was made, some ground ought to be laid be.
fore the !-louse to.induce them to agree to it.
The Motion was then agreed to.
• General PASCOYNR made a' similar Motion, re.
seeding the Custom Duty upon Coffee 'for HoMe
Constuiiption, which was agreed to. .
• The Me?nbers chosen to try the merits of the
Kilccudbript peaion, were.
j. Forster Barham, Esq. Sir ohn Dashwood King, Bart.
Right Hon. C. Bpgge, Sir win Cox Hippesley,
Robert Duncomhe, Esq. Sir R. Wm. Vaughan,
f. johns, Esq. Sit Jacob Asrley, Bait. •
Ehah Harvey, Esq. - F. lane, Esq.
Lord Viscount Clements, • M. Archttall, Esq.
Hon. lohnNeweomen,'

NOMENSES.
lohilYonblanque, -Esq.. Lord Advocate of Scotland.,
The 009- of the Day, being read for calling John
Simpson, Esq. Mayor of Great Grimsby, to the Bar,
in, order- to his being reprimanded, and -discharged,
Mr. ROSE objefted to it ; lie said he was sure
that the Hon. Member who made this Motion en a
former day, was only actuated. by motives of com.
passion. It was true that Mr. Simpson appeared to
be an ignorant and uneducated man, and aurally un.
acquainted with. the Rules and Orders Of that House,
but there were some circumstances conneeted with
his case which deserved the attention of the House.
This man was not only attended by Deputy Re-
corder 'ache Borough, but he called In a Counsel
upon the occasion, who advised him how to at, hut
he-had chosen to ad upon his own judgment, and in
direa contradiction to the advice of his. Counsel.--
He not only ,admitted persons to their freedom who
were not entitled to it, but suffered persons to vote
w ho wcrenot qualified. Under these circumstances
be wished to ask how it would appear upon the Jour.
oats tinit a Man' who had been guilty of such enoduil
should escape with it slight fignisliment of three or
four days confinement in the custody of the Serjeanr
ar'Actus, whe.o he had lived touch better than
would; 94abli have don at tiool' ansiprohabiy n6t

...s own expence ,e would therefore go back,
if he was now discharged, with only this slight
punishment, and his case so far from being an
example to deter, would rather be an encourage-
ment to'other Returning Officers to set in the same
manner:: Since the Revolution another case had
occurred with regard to this very town 'of Great.
Grimsby : in that case the Magistrates 'had been
guilty of very great offences, though not so great
as that imputed to the present Mayor; bur in that
case the House ordered the ATTORNEY GBP/ER.11.,
to prosecute the offenders. Under all the circuns.
stainces of' the present case, he was therefore of opi-
nion that the slight punishment which this man had
undergone, was by no means adequate to the offence
he had committed.
Mr. EL giCKBURNE, Jun. Rid, he. had been
informed that the allegations of Mr. Simpson in his
petition, were not.stridly true ; he understood that
he was by no means so poor a man as. had been re.presented ; on the contrary, he was on the point of
building a house which' would cost him 2001. and at
to his having a family to sustain, it appeared that
two of his sons had voted at the Eledion, and
.that
the rest of his children wire grown up; as far as his
pecuniary circumstances were concerned, he was not
so far an object of compassion as . had been rePre-
sented. •
•
Mr. CALCR4FT said, he had been creditably
informed, that the fads stated in the Petition' of Mr.
Simpson were true : with resped to his building a
house, the fan was, that he had been warned.out of,
a farm, which he held, of 01. a year, And. he was
also obliged to quit the house, and be' was theiefore
obliged to expend whai little property he hid to
build a residence for himself and his family.
really' thought that. this poor man had. suffered
enough for the purpose of example, and it was" in
that view of the subjea that he had presented the
Petition.
Mr. SHAW WEFR4 said, if the punishment
was merely of a 'pecuniary nature, the arguments
- which had been used would be entitled to weight,
but he thought that in cases of this kind, the punish_
'meat ought to be corporal.—Punishment was to be
inflitqed merely for the purpose of example—the
man himself ought to be punished for the commis-
sion
.of a crime so very serious and flagrant. He
was sure, that the Hon. Member who moved for the
entailment of this man, had been aauated by the
bear motives, but he thought the dignity of the
Hope, required that. Mr. 'Simpson should be con.
tinued in prison.
• Mr. BURDON thought he ought not to be con.
tinued in- the custody of the. Serjeant at Arms, but
that he should be sent to Netvgate. -
Mr. BURTON and Col. PORTER also spoke on
the same side..
Mr. QRMSBY and Serjeant BEST spoke shortly
for
,a mild punishment for Mr. Simpson, on the-
ground of his acting from ignorance. .
The question being put for the discharge of Mr.
Simpson, it was negatived, and he was, on .the
tion of Mr. BURTON, ordered to he committed to
Newgate.
. •
.The Report of the: Committee on the Ri;:h.Coorts
of Law Bill was read, and the, Report was then or.
tiered to be referred to a Committee on Wednes-
day next.

? N

Mr. GREGOR moved, that there be laid before
the House ark account of
,the Flour and Corn im-
ported into this Country, from the ph of January.
180 i, to the ph of January 1803.
. Mr. V ANSITTART said, than he was prepared
to lay before the House the Accounts asked for by
the Hon. Gentleman, except those of the last Quar-
ter : he then suggested that it would be better to
move for those Accounts to be laid before the House
from the loth of 041ober 18oz, to the loth' of
Ottober 1803, which wAs agreed to.:
The Report of the Militia Families Bill %vas or.
dered to be received to-mOrrow.
A Message from the Lords stated; that they had
passed the Bill for the Relief .of Soldiers and Sailors
Wives, and desired the concurrence of this House.
Read' a first time and ordered to.be printed.
A person from the East India House brought up
some Accounts; which were ordered to be panted..
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved,
that the House be called. over on Thursday next,.
which was Out, -and agreed- to.
The SPEAKER their informed the. House that the
names of the Members would• he called aver on that
day, and those. absent, be reported to the Sr eAxeit.'
Sir WM. SCOTT moved that the House should re.
solve itself into. a Committee of .the whole Howe
on the Clergy Non. Residence
Sir Wm. STOTT then proposed several Amcnd..
merits; which were agreed to without opposition.
• Owthe clause being read, which gives *IL: Rec-
tor, &e. leave of absence for three months,
The ATTORNEY GENERAL opposeti it, in a
speech of utansiticrable 'length. He said this had
been entitled a Bill .of Restriction, when it ought
more properly to have been termed a Bill of Relaxa.
tion. He was inclined to. give to its authors and
supporters every credit for the relitude of their in-
tentions, but he could not approve of this clause,
which extended from one to three months, the leave.
of absence, without a penalty. The avowed objed
of this Bill was to enfore the residence of the Clergy,
hut in this instance there was an obvious departure
from the principle, as three months of absence were
given with a subsequent extension of that term, at
the discretion of the Bishop. He felt this so far
objeelionable, that he should move to contrail the
term to " six weeks" at one time, or to " three
onsits'l at different periods in the year. He con.
eluded with a motion to this effeet.
Mr. GREGOR, Mr. G. Rose, and Mr:WILBER.
FORCE, were for the original Clittat's and for a
clause of indulgence to the Clergy.
Lord PORCHESTER, after stating that the Aa
Of HENRY VIII. was a dead letter, until certain
lots persons had taken it up as a trade, said, that
fhe leave of absence fur three months was by no
means.too far extended. The House should look to
the talents and respectability of the Clerical Pro.
cession ; the • English Church would be greatly
endangered by their degradation,

Tke clidarc,#LLOß of the EXCIIEfZURR said,
owe was ituiterial difference between the clergy
of thepresenf dun and clime of the reign of Henry
.end'iherfore 0(414 .the Htrise
not math!), poncur ritil the 1-fonourablF would