The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-23 00:00:00

NEW ZEALAND LOAN.

Sir J. TRELAWNEY gave notice that on going into
supply he .hould call attention to matters connected with
the New Z ,aland Loan.
DANUBIAN PRINCIPALITIES.

Mr. GLADSTONE gave notice that he should to-
morrow put a question to her Majesty's Government
relative to the Danubian Principalities.

THE CAGLIARI.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER laid
additional papers on the table of the house relative to
the Cagliari.
DIPLOMATIC SALARIES AND PENSIONS.

Mr. WISE submitted the following resolution to the'
house, that it is the opinion of this house that the diplo-
matic salaries and pensions now charged on the consoli-
dated fund should be brought under the more immediate
view and contra of Parliament, and be paid out of a vote
annually provided by the House of Commons for the
purpose. The hon. member stated that the consular ser-
vice having recently been placed upon a more satisfac-
tory footing, he was desirous of calling the attention of
the house to the advantages which would result from
placing the diplomatic service in a state of equal effici-
ency. It was unfortunate that whenever such subjects
as these were introduc,ad by a rivets individual, he was
too chin mat with the idea that he was actuated by
personal animosity to some particular individual. He
protested against such a conclus on being drawn from
the motion which he had submitted to tile house. He
ret,peoted highly many members of that most honourable
body who followed the prefession of diplomacy. Tile
motion was on the face of it of a financial character, but

it would necessarily combine many other conditions. In
the rsign of the Georges the diplomatic salaries were
charged upon the civil list, but in the time of Wm. IV.
the diplomatic salaries were placed on the consolidated
fund. But be apprehended that there could he no more
difficulty in placing the salaries of the ambassadors
within the Entre' of the House of Commons, in the
same manner as had been done at the commencement of
the reign of Wm. IV., in the case of the Ministers of
the Crown. He had brought forward a motion founded
on the report of the committee, and (tarried it by a ma-
jority of 55, the principal members of her Majesty's pre-
sent Government giving him their support to the mo•
tion. The committee to which he had referred reported
that it would be advisable to convert France and Con-
stantinople into first-class missions ; that one mission
should be formed for the whole of Grmany ; and that
a consolidaten should take place in the mission of Italy ;
and the report concluded by recommending an investi-
gation into the consular service in the next session of
Perliaesent. The committee recommended that no salary
should exceed 5 0001. a year ; but in the next year the
Lords of the Treasury stave an order for the salary of am-
bassador at Paris at 8,0001., and it was shortly after in-
creased to 10,0001. At Constantinople the salary was
14,0001. a-year, and extra expenses 3,0001. If there was
any mission to which he would be disposed to give a
largo sum, it would be for those which were in the East.
He believed that the Eastern question was in reality
only postponed, and that France, England and Russia
stilt looked upon the East as a Neboth's vineyard. It
was most important that our position in Egypt should
be kept ep ; and he thought that a high political func-
tionary should be resident in that country. Tne question
of the dragomans connected with the embassy in the
Es-t alone deserved the most serious attention. For while
France and Austria employed persona who understood
the language, England was entirely dependent upon the
service of the natives to act as interpretere. This was
most disgraceful to the country, and if secrecy was in-
disponsible to the efficiency of the diplomatic service, it
veal evident that the present mode of transacting busi•
ness was a most imperfect one. With respect to the 32
Garman States, he thought that if we had a minister at
Vienna, Berlin, and Frankfort, it would be quite suffi-
cient for the diplomatic business of Germany. Now he
wished to say something upon the anomalies of what
might IA termed "the double system." At Lisbon they
paid an envoy 4,0001. a-year, a secretary of legation
500/., an attache 2001., eltogether 4,7001., or with sun
dries, 5,2071., on account of the embassy at Lisbon. On
the other hand, they had also a consul there with 6001.
a-year, and a vice-consul with 3001. a-year. Now, what
he wished to impress upon the house was, that one or
other ef those establishments must be unnecessary. The_
evidence of Sir 11. Seymour, who had been our repro
sentative at the court of Lisbon, made it pretty clear
that the business transacted by the consul Eight very
easily be done through the embassy. Mr. Cavendish, of
the Foreign-office, had recently written a work on the
subject of the diplomatic service, which seemed to be
written with the intent of breaking up the whole
system. At any ra e, the book made a couplets ex-
posure of the subject. It appeared, according to
Mr. Cavendish, that the it iff of the diplomatic
corps consisted of 136 gentlemen. Well, out of these 138
gentlemen, more than 100 were either peers, or the sons,
nephews, or near relations of peers. And it would be
further seen that, taking the five principal capitals of
Europe—Paris, St Petersburg, Vienna, Berlin, and
Madrid—the representatives of England during the last
100 years at those courts had numbered 146. Now, of
that number 116 were either themselves peers or the near
connections of peers. On the other hand, in France,
Russia, Prussia, America, and most of the other Euro-
pean States, promotion to the diplomatic service went
exclusively by merit ; whilst in England, the most com-
mercial country in the world, they selected their ambas-
sadors inertly on account of their high family connec-
tions. He believed that one of the wisest thing.] the Go,
verntuent of England could do would be to pay all those
connected with the diplomatic service adequate salaries,
and tberefore they should cease to have any such officers
as unpaid attachis, Having said thus much, he should
content himself with moving, that henceforward it was
the opinion of the house that the diplomatic salaries
should be under the immediate review of Parliament.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. FITZGERALD could not but acknowledge
that the hon. gentleman had manifested a singular con•
stancy with regard to the question before the house, and
at the same time his efforts had been most prominent.
On the other hand, the hon. gentleman bad introduced
topics int 3 the discussion, as, for example, matters affect-
ing the residence of ambassadors, and lambassadorial
outfits, which had no leaning upon the question which
the house was called upon to decide. The hon. gentle-
man bad given a very correct history of the subject be.

f ,re them-, and had very properly told them that up to
the year 1332 the salaries of the diplomatic agents were
charged upon the civil list. Now, he wished, in the
first place, to direct the attention of the house to the
report of the select committee of 1831—a committee ap-
pointed, be it remembered, by a reformed Parliament.
The committee, after having given the whole question
the very fu'le,t consideration, came to the conclusion
upon which the present system was based. It appeared
to the committee that it was not expedient to introduce
charges, such as the salaries of diplomatic agents,
nto
the annual estimates. The proposal, therefore, of i
the
hon. gentleman was directly opposed to the deliberate
resolve of the select committee. Now, it appeared to
him that the present system was admirably adapted to
protect the public interests
to the foreign relations of
the State, while at the Fame time it guarded against ar.
improvident and 14vish expenditure. The result of the

Lord PALMERSTON said he hoped the house would
go to a division on the motion, not with any precon-
ceived netione or party views, but simply on the geestion
as materially involving our national interests ; and it
was on that ground alone that be rested his argument
against the motion. In the first place, the motion before
the house tended to reverse a former decision deliberately
come to in regard to the payment of diplomatic salaries
and retired pensions ; but, before they did that, he
thought it was incumbent on the hon. gentleman who
proposed to alter that arrangement, to show that public
inconvenience had arisen from the existing state of
things, and the advantages to be derived from the pro-
posed change, but which they bad failed to show. He
(Lord Palmerston) objected to the motion on constitu-
tional grounds, and should decline to fellow his hon.
friend into the topics he had introduced into his speech
far beyond what the terms of his motion permitted. He
held it to be unconstitutional to bring diplomatic trans-
actions whilst pending before the house and under its
oonstant supervision, and at variance with the interests
of the country. (Hear.) There was no medium between
two courses that must be adopted. The house must either
place confidence in the responsible ministers of the Crown,
and make them answerable for the results of the manage.
ment, or they must appoint a standing committee of the
house to take the management of foreign affairs under their
con4ideration, which it was unnecessary for him to say
would be entirely inoonsistent with the constitution, and
opposed to the interests of the country. Nothing could
be worse than giving to popular assemblies a control
over I.diplomatic arrangements, which the noble lord
illustrated by referring to disputes being likely to wise
such as had occurred
.between France and America
from that circumstance, and which, had it not been for
the earnest exertions of many friendy powers, might
have produced a very serious rupture between those two
countries. (Hear, hear.) Whilst diplomatic arrange.
ments were going on, it was desirable they should not
be made public, but as soon as they were concluded it
was the practice to lay them on the table of the house,
when the house had an opportunity of calling ou the,
Government for an explanation of their conduct if it.
were deemed desirable. Had this house possessed free-
dom of discussion in diplomatic transactions recent cir-1
cum,tances might have led to a very different state of
relations than at present existed. (Hear.) He admitted;
it was no degradation fur the Ministers of the Gown to,

have their salaries •oted by that house, but he thought
it would tend materially to lessen the dignity o.
the representatives at foreign courts if from their nalariei
being placed in the estimates were known, and the die.
euseion that would fallow on the ♦otes. His influence

at foreign courts would thereby be much impaired ; fo;-.
he must be a fortunate man who could so perform hip;
duties without giving even intentional offence. Her
Maje.ityie Government who were on the spot were able
to answer statements and charges made against them
when they were brought before Parliament, but it would
not be the case with the diplomatic a;ents. They would
be absent when charges were made against them by
wandering countrymen or ttavillers in foreign coun-
tries, and probably the Foreign-office would not have
the means of Entroverting the statements which such
persons might communicate to hon. members, and
which might be stated in the course of the debate.
He (Lord Palmerton) thought, under these circum-
stances, it was for the interests of the service that the
salaries of our diplomatic agents should not be put
into the estimates, and come annually in review be-
fore Parliament. Such discussion as he had alluded