The Sun.
London, England, 1858-12-09 00:00:00

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I the United Kingdom,

Mr. GIBSON, on rising to address the meeting,
was loudly cheered. He said he now stood before
his constituents to know whether his conduct since
he had been their member had met with their ap-
probation. (Cheers.) The mayor had referred to
an affair in which he was concerned during the last
session. It was now a pleasure to him to give the
fullest explanation in his power. He alluded to
the defeat of the Goverment of Lord Palmerston
—(hear, hear, and cheers)—upon what was called
the Conspiracy Bill. The truth was, a difference of
opinion arose between the House of Commons and
the Executive Government as to the manner in which
that Government had exercised its discretion in
dealing with our relations with France. The
House of Commons differed with the Government,
and expressed its opinion constitutionally- and legi-
timately, in the form of a vote of censure. That
carried with it the support of the most independent
and experienced men of all parties then in the
House. (Hear.) It was not a question argued in
a sense hostile to France. He was an advocate for
maintaining peaceful relations with all countries ;
but, above all, he strenuously advocated the main-
tenance of the most friendly alliance with France.
(Hear, hear.) The House of Commons thought the
Government were about to alter an important law
in a precipitate -manner, and in a spirit opposed to
the security of the refugees in this country. They
thought that, without calm investigation, to alter
so delicate a law as that of conspiracy deserved
the reprobation of the House of Commons. For,
what was conspiracy ? Of all offences it was
the most difficult to define. A look, a word,
or an act might be the proof of a conspiracy.
To make a mere unfulfilled intention a felony, as
was proposed by the bill—such a change in the law
of England ought only to be made after the fullest
Parliamentary deliberation. (Hear, hear.) But
it was proposed in a hasty, ill-considered manner,
and in a manner somewhat humiliating to the
dignity and independence of England as a nation.
The House of Commons therefore rejected the bill ;
the Ministry fell, and should the same events again
occur he (Mr. Gibson) would pursue the same
course that he took on that occasion. lie never
was more satisfied in his life than with the course
which the Parliamcnt took in rejecting the Con-
spiracy Bill, even although there followed the fall
of a Whig Government. -- (Hear,t(li.) Those who
voted against the bill were charged with having
brought in the Tories. He was no Tory, but what
harm, after all, had happened from the advent of
the Earl of Derby to power ? It must be expected
in this country, from time to time, that the Tories,
like other political parties,would have their innings.
(Laughter.) They soon got either bowled out or
caught out ; but he was not sure whether an in-
nings to the Tories did not do some good to the
Whigs. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) The latter
came out of Opposition a little fresher than they
went into it ; and he had no doubt it would be
found in the next session that the Whig leasers
had made a very considerable step in advance, in
consequence of having been thrown into the shades
of Opposition. (Hear, hear.) He would do Lord
Derby the justice to say that he had done some
very good things since he had been at the head of
affairs ; and that he had given utterance to many
important truths which we were not in the habit of
hearing from our late Whig leaders. He had car-
ried the Jew Bill—perhaps because his lordship
found it an absolute necessity to get rid of that
difficulty, that it might not stand in his way. But
it did not matter how things were carried,provided
they were carried. Now as to our foreign relations.
He thought the spirit of Lord Derby's speech at
the Mansion-house on the 9th of November was
very much to be commended. It was the speech of
a statesman, and of a Minister who desired, without
in the slightest degree impairing the honour or dig-
nity of his country, to maintain friendly relations
with his neighbours. There was no bombast, no
bullying in its tone ; and his lordship said 'that
should any difference arise between England and
any foreign power, before resorting to hostilities
his Government would endeavour to bring into
action the principle laid down at the Conference of
Paris, to try to settle it by reference to some third
and friendly power. (Cheers.) He (Mr. Gibson)
was glad to hear those sentiments in high places ;
for it was his farm opinion that there was no policy
so necessary for the future happiness and good go-
vernment of England as a policy of peace. We de-
pended upon our trade—we had large populations
whose daily bread depended upon constant employ-
ment in our staple manufactures ; and if ever there
was a country whose very security depended upon
the maintenance of a peaceful policy, that country
was England. (Cheers.) He was not a peace-at-
any-price man ; he was simply arguing in favour of
a policy of peace and non-interference. (Hear.)
In connection with the Conspiracy Bill, he was
charged with being indifferent to the maintenance
of friendly relations with France ; but what had
been the result of the defeat of that bill in respect
to our relations with France ? Why, the Prime
Minister had stated that never in the history of the
two countries were they upon a more friendly foot-
ing than now. (Hear, hear.) Although no man ad-
vocated more than he did the perfect freedom of the
press of England—though no man was more alive
than he was to the importance of free discussion as
regarded other countries as well as our own—ne-
vertheless he could wish that our newspapers did
not favour us so continually with repeated disserta-
tions upon the internal Government of France. We
had plenty of abuses in England. (Hear, hear.)
Let editors employ their talents in exposing the in-
justices and corruptions that exist in our own in-
stitutions. We had plenty to do without constantly
discussing the affairs of our neighbours; and,
more than this, he would say that if the press
of this country was to be constantly put-
ting the most unfavourable construction on
everything that occurred in France, in re-
ference to their designs upon England, then,
do what you would, it would be impossible to main-
tain those friendly relations that every true lover
of his country heartily desired to see maintained.
(Cheers.) Therefore, he did sincerely wish that
our leading journals would stick, day by day, if
they pleased, to the new Reform Bill. (Cheers.) Let
them expose the gross extravagance of our own
executive Government—let them expose corruption
in high places, and write with a view to give to
the industrious classes their fair share of political

power. (Cheers.) If they were true advocates of
freedom, instead of abusing France, let them en-
deavour to set an example of their confidence in
freedom by extending political rights to the great
body of the people of this country. (Cheers.) As
soon as Lord Palmerston's Government had fallen
they began to make preparations for getting back
to office; and it was thought they would seon suc-
ceed, for it was in everybody's mouth, " Lord Derby
can't hold the Government for three weeks." And
there happened an event very favourable, as it
seemed at first, to Lord Palmerston's chances. Lord
Ellenborough published a despatch—a secret de-
spatch, as they said it ought to have been—ad-
dressed to the Governor-General of India, and re-
proving him for having proclaimed the confiscation
of all the private landed property in Oude. In that
despatch there were some magnanimous and gene-
rous thoughts, expressed in powerful language ;
and the whole of the offices were actually up in
arms at the idea of a Minister saying anything
generous and kind in a public despatch, and then
publishing it. (Laughter.) They rose in rebellion.
The great official mind was in a state of perfect
excitement at such a deviation from the mere rou-
tine of official practice, that routine being a system
of secrecy and mystification. (Hear, hear, and
laughter.) He, for one, was very glad to read the
despatch ; not only because he approved entirely of
a great part-of its torrtentv 'but - because he never-
would quarrel with a Minister for giving to Par-
liament information upon public affairs. (Hear,
hear.) We had suffered a great deal from this
system of secrecy—of keeping everything in the
dark, and leaving members of Parliament to
argue public questions without any knowledge
of the designs or the policy of the Ministers of the
day. (Hear, hear.) However, a vote of censure
was brought forward, condemning Lord Ellen-
borough for publishing the despatch. Lord Ellen-
borough admitted that he was individually and
solely responsible—that he had written the despatch
and taken upon himself to make it known—that he
had acted independently of his colleagues; and as
the Government appeared to be endangered by his
proceedings he resigned. Lord Palmerston was in
such a hurry to return to power, that they actually
went on with the vote of censure, although the only
man who deserved censure had made the aniende
honorable by leaving the Government. A man
with the smallest experience in political life must
have seen at a glance that that was a great politi-
cal blunder, and so it turned out—(hear, hear)—for
after going on with the debate—making speeches
of talent, but of the most vindictive and determined
character—they withdrew the motion, put their
papers into their green bags, and disappeared in
confusion. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) The
affair was nothing but a great blunder on the part
of those political leaders who some time since put
themselves at the head of the Liberal party. He
thought the time was come for many of those old
leaders to retire from the field. (Hear, hear.) Lord
Palmerston himself—why he had nothing to com-
plain of—he had been in office about N years.
(Laughter.) And when a man had been in office
for 50 years with all Governments, and had given
satisfaction to all parties, he might very well re-
tire. He (Mr. Gibson) wished him health, happi-
ness, and a long life, provided he did not trouble us
any more with aspiring to be the leader of the Libe-
ral party. ("Hear, hear," and laughter.) There
were several ancient politicians who, he thought,
with all respect to them, ought to retire. There
was no promotion in the political world—the old
heads stuck to their posts so long, and people said
longer than was justified by their bodily energies
and mental powers. There was a propriety in
men retiring from the leadership of great political
parties when they had arrived at that period of
life when they could not conduct matters with the
vigour and promptitude which were required
for such important duties. (Hear, hear.) Had
Mr. Cardwell's motion come to a vote,
he (Mr. Gibson) would have voted against it, even
though it might have laid him open to the charge
of keeping in the Tories. The next question in
which he interfered with was one in which he had
been interested for many years—viz., the total re-
peal of the paper duty. His reason for moving in
this matter, while there were so many taxes press-
ing heavily upon the springs of industry, was that
some years ago an agitation was commenced for the
emancipation of the press of England from all taxes.
There were then three taxes—the advertisement
duty, the newspaper stamp, and the paper duty.
The two former having been repealed, he was bound
to go on for the repeal of the third. In the last ses-
sion of Parliament this movement met with some
success, for the House of Commons agreed to a re•
solution that the paper duty should not be per-
mitted—or rather that it was impolitic to raise re-
venue by a duty on paper—thereby laying down
the principle, that taxing an article of this descrip-
tion was not a fit and proper mode of raising the
income of the State. The Government were there-
fore bound, if they wanted the money that the
paper duty now afforded them, to find out some
other less objectionable mode of raising the sum I
required. Could anything be more monstrous than
that they should be voting money for schools on the
one hand, and at the same time allowing a tax on
books used in the schools for the purpose of instruc-
tion ? The paper duty was imposed by Queen Anne
with the avowed object of preventing the circula-
tion of cheap publications; but there was this absur-
dity in it—it was an instruction to the committee
of the House of Commons that imposed the duty,
that with the view to the encouragement of learn-
ing there should be a remission of the duty on all
books in the Latin, Greek, Oriental, and Northern
languages. Could it be conceived that in this 19th
century the duty was remitted on the classic books
printed at the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge,
and that it was put on the artisans' primer and school
books? And yet we avowed ourselves to be anxious
to extend knowledge and promote education among
the working classes. He never could get one clergy-
man or bishop to say a word in favour of the repeal
of the paper duty. They would quarrel over the
forms of religion to be taught in the schools, but
turn a deaf ear to a scheme which appeared to him
(Mr. Gibson) calculated to deserve the support of
all parties, because it would enable the working
classes to educate themselves. (Hear and cheers.)
When he went on a deputation to the late Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, Sir G. C. Lewis, with re-
spect to this tax, he (Mr. Gibson) inquired whether
English was not a Northern language, and if not
what the term meant. He was told that it meant
Russian ; so that an Englishman might print and
circulate as many books in Russian as he pleased,
and pay no paper duty ; but if he printed a book
in his native English, then came the exciseman and
claimed and received his
.11d. in the pound. He
hoped he had the support and approbation of his
constituents in his endeavours to repeal this
obnoxious tax. (Hear, hear, hear.) If the
paper duty were repealed to-morrow, in a short
time the loss to the revenue would not be known,
for the remaining taxes would become more pro-
ductive. The late Sir Robert Peel, by his sagacious
selection of taxes for remission, removed many
burdens from the people, not only without impair-
ing the revenues of the State, but actually increas-
ing at the same time the public income. (Hear.)
There was a question now occupying public atten-
tion upon which he supposed it was becoming of
him to say something, though he did not know
much, because he had not seen any of the plans
likely to be proposed to Parliament in reference to
reforming the representation. He saw that a gen-
tleman was charged with having stolen a public
despatch ; and he wished that the document stolen
had been the new Reform Bill. (Laughter.) He
should like to have seen what it was Lord Derby
was going to propose. It was reported in London
that Lord Derby, who was rather a sporting cha-
racter, was going to astonish the old Whigs ; that

he was going further than they, perhaps, would
like to follow. Then there was his (Mr. Gib-
son's) esteemed and excellent friend Mr. Bright
—(cheers)—but he had not seen Mr_ Bright's Re-
form Bill. Although it might not go to an ex-
tent that would meet all the wishes of Reformers,
he had no doubt it would be a real and solid im-
provement in the representative system. (Hear,
hear.) There were three questions we had to ask
ourselves—Was reform wanted ? What sort of
reform would we have ? How are we to carry any
Reform Bill ? Taking the last first, it was clear
that to carry a real measure we must be content to
sacrifice minor differences. Those who wish to go
a little way must be content to go a little further ;
'those who were prepared to go a great way must be
satisfied with stopping somewhat short. By that
union of forces, we might be able to carry a good
and valuable measure, improving the representa-
tion, and giving the people a more effectual control
over the Government. (Cheers.) The Bill of 1832
was carried in that way. That measure was dis-
paraged now; but it was a large one as compared
with the then existing state of things. Earl Grey
said a few years previously that he could prove that
145 individuals, peers and great commoners, re-
turned a majority of the House of Commons. (Hear,,
hear.) It must bo admitted that the bill of 1832
was a greater advance, comparatively, than any
well consletaittniCatmre We-could now eitipeut*nittd,
be. People were not now so alarmed as they used
to be at the idea of reform. Sir It. Inglis predicted
that if the bill of 1832 passed, in 10 years there
would be no King in England, and that the Lords
would be turned out of their house. (Laughter.)
But now we had epon the throne a monarch who
was, perhaps, more loved and respected than ever
before was monarch of England—(cheers)—and we
had the House of Lords still in full feather. (Laugh-
ter.) What we were now going to ask for was not
the destruction of the House of Lords or any inter-
ference with the prerogatives of the Crown. What
we wanted was a real House of Commons, as well
as a House of Lords ; a House of Commons returned
by the people,and not nominated by the Lords ; and
that there might be freedom of voting through the
protection of the ballot. (Loud cheers.) The first
and staggering fact we met with in reference to
reform—and it was a complete answer to his first
question—was, that out of 5,000,000 adult males
scarcely 1,000,000 enjoyed the elective franchise.
(A voice—" And a great shame 'tis !") That state
of things could not last. Every man must feel
that it was a question that would have to be dealt
with, and what he wished was that it should be
dealt with calmly and dispassionately, when the
passions of the people were not aroused, and with
the knowledge that the great mass of the people
were daily improving in political and other know-
ledge. Lord Macaulay had well said, " The great
cause of revolutions is that nations move onwards
and that constitutions stand still." Let us in Eng-
land, as we knew that our people were moving on-
ward, see that our constitution moved also. But
he would bo asked, " How far will you go ?
(hear, hear)—are you prepared for universal suf-
rage? What will you do" He answered, that his
individual opinion upon the question of the suf-
frage—of it being a political right appertaining to
the man—availed nothing in the consideration of
a matter of this sort. He would support that ex-
tension of the suffrage which appeared to meet the
approval of the grsktest body of sincere Reformers
which appeared the most likely to be carried, and
to confer a great advantage upon the country. He
would not be deterred from supporting a moderate
measure, because it might not come up to those
abstract theories of the right of the suffrage being
in the man which everybody no doubt, whether
Tory or Liberal, must in his conscience hold.
(Cheers.) In dealing with the question, in these
times, we must deal with it as practical men, look-
ing to what could kbe carried. Let a well-consi-
dered measure be laid upon the table by men in
whom the Liberal party had confidence ; let that
bill be well circulated and considered; and, if it
meet the approval of public meetings in the large
towns, then let the whole Reform party unite to a
man and carry it through t he Legislature. (Cheers.)
With regard to the vote by ballot, it was thought
by many to be an unimportant question. He held
it to be vital to the freedom of election in a country
like this. Do what they would with the suffrage a
man could not exercise it freely ifthere was coupled
with the right of voting the condition that he was
to publish his vote to all mankind. In a country like
this, in which there were so many social influences,
so many real powers exercised by owners of pro-
perty over the labour of the country, by landlords
over tenants, and by customers over those who dealt
in articles of merchandise, we had a case for the
ballot without going to Australia or any other
country. It could not be too often repeated that,
when the Reform Bill of 1832 was under considera-
tion, it was distinctly avowed by the ministers of
those days that the ballot was a subject for future
consideration. It was well known that the Cabinet
of Lord Grey had resolved at that time to give the
ballot with a £2O franchise; and that they took
away the ballot when they extended the franchise
to £lO, although when the franchise was extended
he considered there was greater necessity for the
ballot, They might depend upon it there was no
real ground for opposing the vote by ballot, but a
fear of the existing constituency of the country.
There was no danger in reform in England if by
danger was understood confusion or disorder. We
were a practical common sense people, and could
manage our reforms without violence or force, by
simple appeals to reason. He believed there was
nothing in the shape of Parliamentary reform
which the people would have a difficulty in obtain-
ing if they set to work and argued the question out
with those who held high places, and brought the
force of public opinion to bear upon them. (Hear.)
In no, matter, perhaps, was the necessity of reform
greater than in the expenditure of the country.
Our military, naval, and ordnance estimates now
amounted to upwards of £22,000,000 a-year, while
during the Duke of 'Wellington's time, in 1835, he
thought X 11,000,000 or £12,000,000 a-year sufficient
to defend the country. 'What could be the reason
that at a time when we were told our relations with
all the world were of a peaceful character, and
that the Eastern question was settled—what could
be the reason for this enormous expenditure ? They
might rely upon it, it was for the interest of Eng-
lishmen to reduce our public expenditure. The
Parliament was powerless upon the question, for
this simple reason, that there were too many mem-
bers of Parliament interested in upholding and
maintaining this public expenditure. (Hear.)
The people had not the control over the pub-
lic expenditure Which a Parliamentary preform
would give them ; and, upon that ground, as well
as upon others, he believed there was an urgent
need for the immediate consideration of the measure
which now regulated the representation of the
people. He had put his name to a programme pro-
posing that the rate book should be made the re-
gister. He did not know whether that was the
scheme to be presented by those who would submit
a Reform Bill. But whatever bill was introduced,
unless the ballot were part of it, it would be an
imperfect measure and ineffectual for the purposes
intended. (Hear.) There was one other branch of
public affairs to which he wished to allude--the
distribution of patronage. That question alone was
sufficient to justify the demand for political reform.
He contended that the patronage of this country
in the civil departments, in the army, and in the
navy was not fairly distributed according to merit,
but was for the most part allotted to those who had
political and family influence, and who could bring
that influence to bear upon the Government of the
dtiy. The aristocracy had got too large a share of
the patronage and emoluments of office. Every
Englishman, he considered, had a right to serve the
State, and to be upon an equal footing with eYory

Mr. It. Kershaw moved, and Mr. S. Mills se-
conded a vote of thanks to, and confidence in, the
hon. member ; which was carried by acclamation
and briefly acknowledged.

Mr. Gibson then moved a vote of thanks to the
Mayor ; and It having been seconded by Mr.
Reyner, and carried, the Mayor responded, and
the proceedings terminated.