The Sun.
London, England, 1858-11-11 00:00:00

ROYAL COMMISSION. ; p.S7 ARMY
-

STORES, AND CLOTHING.

The Royal Commissioners continued their inquiry
yesterday at Woolwich Arsenal.
Mr. Rolt, in respect of whom a statement had
been made during the progress of the inquiry which
created an impression that he offered for sale to
Government a quantity of Dantzic firs which were
not in his possession at the time the offer was made,
came before the commissioners to explain the trans-
action, and to remove from the minds of the com-
missioners and the public the impression which had
been created. Mr. Bolt read his letter of the 3d of
April, offering 150 loads of Dantzie fir to Govern-
ment at •£4 ss. per load. When that offer was
made the timber was lying in the Commercial
Docks. ' On the 14th of April a letter was received
from the War Department, stating " that timber of
that dekription was not at present required by the
department." He therefore found another channel
through Which that timber was disposed of. The
timber was therefore in the market at the time it
was offered ; it was not inspected by the Govern-
ment, and it was therefore sold to somebody else.

When he saw the statement and the comments

which had been made upon it he felt acutely on the
point, and thought it right to remove the censure
which had been cast on his commercial honour and

activity.
Mr. Turner said that he was chiefly responsible
for the remarks which had been made, but those
remarks were founded on certain premises, for the
accuracy of which he was in no way responsible.
Mr. Bolt said he quite concurred in the justice
of the'remarks made by Mr. Turner, if the facts
were trite; I?tit the facts being untrue, the remarks
were unjust. With regard to Mr. Sim, he must in
justice him of any imputation whatever in
this malter, because Mr. Sim told him last night
that he- had fallen into a gross error in what he
said, as-he would communicate to the commissioners
by lett&. Mr. Sim was not in the country at the
time, and he did not receive any order to buy tim-
ber till the 24th of April ; he inspected it on the
29th, aiid on the 10th of May he bought it.
In reply to Mr, Selfe,
Mr. Rolt said that the offer was made on the 3d
of April. On the 14th the refusal of the Govern-
ment to accept was received, and on the 18th he
disposed ofit ; it was cut up for ships' decks, and
was sold all round for £4 10s. per load. It was
offered to the Government as it lay ; they might
have taken 100 loads of the 150 at £4 ss. It would
not have damaged the remainder. It was very
excellent timber—Crown Zabboladowski. Made
an offer of timber of the same description to the
Government ton the 6th of May, which he " ex-
pected" ex the Condor.
Mr. Turner—Your offer to Government of 480
loads of timber which you " expected" must be
taken as a proof that when you offered the former
timber, and requested an inspection of it, you had
it on hand ?
Mr. Rolt—lt would depend on various circum-
stances whether the Government could be as well
served •by buying through brokers or through
competition. He unquestionably approved of the
principle of competition. The broker acted for
buyer and seller. It might be desirable for the
buyer to have a broker of his own, but in the timber
trade it would be difficult to accomplish such a
thing.
Mr. Dolan, an army clothing contractor, requested
that a letter which he had addressed to the Com-
missioners might be read. They, however, objected
to the reading of the letter. Mr. Dolan then
stated, in reply to questions, that his house had
been in the habit of making allowances to the
quartermasters, and were still in the habit of making
them. • The allowance was not fixed, but in accord-
ance with the services rendered. It was generally
never more than 5 per cent., and all round it was
about 21 per cent. on the necessaries sold. Did not
consider that this was in contravention of the
regulations issued. The practice prevailed for
many years, and there was a necessity for it. The
necessity arose from the fact that the goods sent
out for the regiment, though inspected and passed,
might be returned to the contractors, and therefore
it was considered right that the quartermasters
should have an allowance for the care of the goads.
[A good deal of discussion here arose as to the
incidence of the liability in case of the loss of
regimental necessaries which had been sent out by
the contractors, and passed by the regimental
committee and commanding officer. Mr. Dolan
considered that the property of goods which were
not actually issued to the soldiers was in the hands
of the clothiers. Mr. Selfe expressed his opinion
that under the regulations no answer could be
given to an action, by a clothier, for the price of
goods -which he delivered, and which had been
inspected and passed by the regimental committee.]
-W hen he (Mr. Dolan) refused to answer the ques-
tion put to him on Saturday it was not from any
desire to conceal the truth, but he wished to con-
sider the matter with others before he gave an
answer.
Mr. Selfe said it would have been much better if
the answer had been given on Saturday, because
the refusal to answer led persons to suspect that
there was more in the matter than appeared to be
the ease.
Mr. Gordon gave some evidence with regard to
the practice followed in the issuing of regimental
stores.: He did not think that the practice of
giving douceurs to the quartermasters could affect
the soldiers in any way ; but if the circumstances
were known to the commanding officer. he did not
know that he could do, otherwise than place the
quartermaster under aritcst. It was against the
Mutiny Act and the regulations. It was part of
the quartermaster's regimental duty to take charge
of the stores. They got no stores from the French
in the Crimea, except in one instance to a small ex-
tent. They supplied much more than they received.
Mr. Bischoff, of the firm of Hibbert and Co., gave
evidence pretty much of the same character as Mr.
Dolan's, with respect to the douceurs given to the
quartermasters. They were given for services
actually performed, and never, as far as he could
trace, as a fee or reward for the purpose of pro-
curing business. There was £37,500 owing to
them from several regiments in India, and when
the money was paid in it was usual to allow the
quartermaster something. lie did not think it was
more than one per cent. in their establishment.
The witness handed in a paper, in which he im-
pugned the data on irliich Mr. Grant founded his
calculations respecting the clothing of the Arillerv,
as manufactured in the Woolwich establishment.
He was prepared to supply the Artillery, with
clothing at Mr. Grant's prices, and to fit the men,
the ordinary facilities for measuring being allowed.
Mr. Turner read a paper which he had received
from Mr. Gordon, showing the number of cars,
carts, and waggons sold in 1853, and the number
remaining in store at the present time. It ap-
peared from this statement that the number of
Irish cars for sick men sold by auction was 30, at
an average price of £5 each ; 165 remained in
store. Army work Cars, 29 sold by auction,
price .£2 18s. ; -none left in store. siacadam's
bo age cars, 4-52 sold at £2 6s. •, remaining in
store, 906. Hospital carts, nine sold at £3 10s. ,•
remaining in store, none, &e. The total
number sold was 1,325, and 2,999 remained in
store.- There was only one offer of purchase by
private contract, and that was the offer of Mr. Dray
of Swan-lane who proposed to buy 500 of the wag-
gons which he supplied at £3510x., and which sold
by public auction at an average of £6 55., at. £5
155., and 1,000 of the land transport carts at £4.
The reply of Mr. Morris, the deputy storekeeper,
to that offer was, that he considered it better to
wait till they knew what might be realised at future
sales.
Captain Clerk said that 400 waggons had been
£Upplied at £35 lOs., and 500 forage carts at £2l
10s.
A; 452 had been sold at £2 6s. In addition to
the 400
145 at wag ere was another e-mtract for
thelil, carriage-300 waggons were
made by Cross ,of Beverley, £42, and 400 at
£43
£4O 300 atl 10s. ; and 2bo at £43 10s.—in all
1,900: These
waggons were made under great
pressure and in a
price.
ery short time, which, of course,
increased the
Lord Raglan,he supply was ordered on
the requisition of
gave the original order but Col. M‘Murdo
The weight was limited
to cwt., but theyh\evye ;ley really 91 cwt. They were
found too light.
weiefhei.t as strong as could be
consistent with the Those which were
sold. had been much used and were greatly deterior-
ated.: Those now in store were quite unfit for war
purposes. They might be useful for market gar-
deners.
Mr. Turner said the total loss which the public
sustained on these waggons was £lOO,OOO.
Capt. Clerk observed that they had been much I
used, and at the time they were ordered it was not
a question of money, but whether there were to be
means for the conveyance and use of the troops.
The Commissioners then adjourned the inquiry
till Wednesday next.

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Packed in t7iiis of about 90 feeds, lls.;'in casks of about 450
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