The Sun.
London, England, 1867-07-29 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—Tins EVENING.

The Llitn CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsatk a
five o'clock.

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE BILL.
On the motion of the Earl of MALMESBURY for going
into committee,

Lord tf AMP. AX rose and moved the following amend-
ment—" That, with regard to the redistribution of seats
the proposed scheme is inadequlto, and that it is ex-
expedient to provide the means of giving more representa-
tives to large and important constituencies than was given
by the bill, and said toat if ho adopted another p:an to
the one which he had now adopted, he should have incurred
the censure of the noble lords. lie was actuated by one
motive only, that was that this question might bo settled as
satisfactorily and speedly as possible (Hoar, hear.) Ile
thought that the other side of tile house was more likely to
carry such a measure than they on that side were. It was
Government only that could effect this. The motion he
had put on the paper was therefore no party motion. He was
a man of party, and if ho meant this motion as such he
should have avowed it to be so. But as this matter was
above party feeling he would not have brought forward a
rival scheme, for that would be a party motion. Ile
thought that with regard to the redistribution of seats the
scope of the bill was inadequate, and on that ground alone
he brought forward this motion, and without any reference
to party whatever. (Hear, hear.) He wished, before he
went to the question of redistribution of seats, to say one
word about the other side of the bill. The Government
had proposed a very large measure of Reform, and he had
to say for one that with it he was perfectly satisfied. He
had none of those fears with regard to the operations of
the bill which had been expressed in that house. He consi-
dered that there would be no abuse of the privileges
conferred by the scheme. He only wished that
the other half of the bill had been conceived in the same
liberal spirit. With reference to the discussion on the
bill, he would ask would they merely register the opinion
of the other house of Parliament, and not discuss the
question themselves because it had come to them
late in the year? He thought not. If any borough should
lose its seat through disfranchisement, which was under
the influence of a member of that house, it would be a
grateful concession on the part of their lordships to allow of
thoincrease of redistributionthat would produce thischange.
He proceeded then to point out the prominent de-
fects in the scheme. It would give in large boroughs
certain extra members, but in the small boroughs
hardly any alteration would take place. There
were 10 boroughs which had only 5,000 each,
the population of the whole amounting to 38,000 ;
and six of these boroughs had less in population than
they had in 1831. Then there was the borough of Liver-
pool having a population of 440,000, four times the popu-
lation than that of the whole ten boroughs just alluded to ;
and there was an increase in the borough of Wolverhampton
almost as great. It would be seen that as the large
boroughs had increased so had the smaller ones di-
minished. He should like to see certain districts cut up
into equal proportions with an equal number of members.
As under the present scheme there would be the seine
number of members to a county having 15,000
inhabitants as there would bo ill one having only 30,000
or 40,000. He would rather see that there should be a
proportionate number of members to each division. The
noble lord then contrasted the boroughs which were
to have additional members with the boroughs which
were not mentioned in the bill, and stated that there were
many of these boroughs which really had a larger popula-
tion ; for instance, there was the borough of Darlington,
which had 15,000, and that of Stockton 13,000 population,
while many towns around had far larger populations. A
prima facie case, therefore, was made out against the
scheme, which was that it was unfair and inadequate.
These were not solitary cases, there were wily similar
ones. He thought he had shown them that the scheme
of the Government with regard to the smaller
boroughs was unequal, and that it was likely to
cause discontent throughout the country. If he had satis-
fied their lordships that there was just cause that some
alteration should be made in that portion of the bill he was
satisfied. All that he was anxious to do was to point out
what he conceived the course which their lordships ought
to take. The first thing was to test the smaller borough.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—THIS EVENING.
The SPEAKE It took the chair at 4 o'clock.
DENMARK AND PRUSSIA.
Mr. D. GRIFFITH 'asked the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether the French Government had re-
monstrated with that of Prussia against their requiring
any engagement as to the protection of the Garman popu-
lation of North Schleswig from Denmark as the condition
of their giving effect to the fifth article of the Treaty of
Prague ; and whether the English Government had offered
any opinion on the subject.
Lord STANLEY said it was quite true that communi-
cations had passed between France and Prussia, but he
should not be justified in stating the nature of those com-
munication; as the information he had received was of a
confidential nature. Her Majesty's Government had ex-
pressed no opinion whatever on the subject.
THE SCOTCH REFORM BILL.
Sir J. OGILVIE asked whether it was intended to bring
this bill forward for discussion this evening.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
not intended to do so that evening or any other evening
during the present session. (Laughter.) It had been
asked that tho bill be reprinted, and on the motion for
going into committee he should move th it the house do so
profornia, i.ud at the sama time move that the bill be re-
printed with the alterations made in acc.irdance with those
if the English bill ; but before he could do it was necessary
it should be known what was done in another place with
respect to the English bill.
Col. FRENCH asked whether it was proposed to raise
any discussion on the motion for going into committee
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
anticipate any discussion would arise, as the motion would
simply be that the holse go into committeepreforma.
Mr. M'LAREN asked when the discussion would be
taken ? (A Voice —" Next session.") (Laughter.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had already stated that it was not intended to proceed fur-
ther with the bill during the present session.
Mr. M'LAREN said that the hon. member for Ayrshire
had announced on Friday last that the bill should not go
on without an opportunity being given of discussing the
matter.
Sir J. FERGUSSON said on Friday he was authorised
to say that no progress would be made in the bill without
an opportunity being given for discussion. He never said
that further progress would be made.
THE FENIANS.
Major KNOX asked the right hon. gentleman opposite
if it was true that he had seated that champagne and
other delicacies had been furnished to the Fenians by the
place he had the honour to represent.
Mr. MONSELL said his observations applied to Dun-
garvon and not Dungannon.
THE PACKET SERVICE VOTE.

In reply to Mr. CRAWFORD,
Mr. HUNT said he had intended toproceed with this
vote on Wednesday, but as it had been representel that it
would be exceedingly inconvenient to members generally
if he did so he would fix the matter for Thursday next.
PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS BILL.
In reply to Sir G. GREY,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
not intended to proceed further with this bill during the
present session.
The order for the committal of the bill was then read and
ordered to be discharged.
METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENT BILL.

In reply to Mr. Holm,
Mr. AYRTON said when the order of the day for the
second reading was arrived at he would state what course
he intended to take with regard to the bill.
THE PURCHASE SYSTEM.
Col. NORTH rose to bring under the consideration of
the house the casesof Lieut. Frederick Nind Woodall and
Lieut. and Adjutant H. Curry, of the 74th Highlanders;
and Lieut. and Adjutant R. F. Stirke, 69th Regiment.
The hon. and gallant gentleman said the cause of those
officers was ono of peculiar hardship: they had been pur-
chased over no less than five times, and the whole cause
of their non-advancement in their profession was
simply because they were not in possession of the
means of obtaining their promotion under the pre-
sent objectionable system of purchase. The officers
he had mentioned were men of the highest honour
and undoubted courage, and it was to be regretted that
such efficient officers should be so unjustly treated. 110
concluded by moving the following:—" That in the
opinion of the house no monotaiy consideration should
delay the promotion of these three officers.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he should decline to touch
upon the question of any expenditure from the reserve
fund until he had seen the report of the committee whictho
had been sitting to consider the subject. With respect
the 3d West India Regiment, it was a peculiar case, and
he had already dealt with it. (Hear, hear.) With ,to
to the officers of the 74th Regiment, he was quite contest
accept the high character that had been given to them by
dtted that
the hon. and gallant gentleman,. and
lie
al sourami
chased over
it must bo extremely depressing to be p
circumstance
less than five times. The unfortunate
was an incidental of the purchase systeten,aarnmd_i,t
the change that had been made in
.t,ti .
ad r)oco?', decided
Government. By that Government n
b 'cutting off two bat-
...tu.rhn:di,,oten
to reduce the strength of the armyt Zed
at 1101„0. Great
talions from every regiment ti
'ned from the circumstance
mentcomeinto operation,:occasttroength
abroad and another
of having regiments of ono s
1 When this arrangement
hardships and inconvenience hadqrever since that arrange-
b t 40 regiments at
at home.
came into operation tikerfvro
battalions from each 240
(Rear, hear, heari.,i.ore a ou
home, and knocking
..vided for. An arrangement was
officers had to ho prThaf 60 captains without purchase,
made for the promotion
--r in the other regiments to be
athrreanl
hu
otion
main as supernumeraries
offered, and the case of those
eancdougldallnanott
with the understandin,gietshat the other officers should re-
absorbed as opportunity
he
much regretted, arose entirely out
two officers, which
gemen'ts anmdo vneodthbinygthelesellonli.
assent to
of those
member.
NSELL hoped that as the 74 h was about to be
Mr MO
hoped the case of the two officers
soot. ;broad and would be strengthened by the addition
of two battalions,
would
be favourably taken into consideration.
The house divided, when there appeared—
For the motion 5l
Against it
Majority
The motion was consequentli lost.
THE REVENUE OF INDIA.
On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr. OT WAY asked the Secretary of State for India
whether there was any, and if any, what limit to the sums
of money which the Secretary of State for India iu
Council may expend in this country without obtain-
ing the sanction of Parliament; and, should the
balance in the Home Treasury be insufficient to meet
any exceptional expenditure incurred by the Secretary of
State for India in Council, whether there was any and, if
any, what limit to the sum for which he may draw on the
revenues of India ; and if the Secretary of State for India
could fix the day for the discussion of the Indian Budget.
Sir S. NORTIICOTE said there was no limit to the
home expenditure of the revenues of India, which were
vested in the Secretary of State for India in Council.
There were limits, however, with respect to the salaries
of the Secretary of State and the members of
the council. With resepect to allowances that wore made
to officers dismissed for misconduct, the money was
awarded those persons to prevent them from actu-
ally coming to starvation. It was thought very
objectionable that persons having enjoyed certain positions
in India should be seen in this country in a state of desti-
tution.

(LEFT SITTING.)