The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-04 00:00:00

ESDAY EVENING, MAY 4, 1858.

correctly he holds that an act of parliament that calls tions and proposals are none of them dictated by personal
upon us to pay so 2,000,0001. of Enchequer bonds is i motives,, brie entirely from a sense of what is required
not a binding engagement—that attach of parliament that ' for the public interest. Similar .plans are brought far.
requires to pay out a million and a half as a sinking fond ward as respects the navy. Then we have suggestions
is not a binding engagement - but that it is competent for promoting :education, for encouraging science and
for parliament to take is band the revision of both those_ art, for improvements in our public edifices, for making
engagements. When, LoWever, he comes to the rem's-- electric telegraphs by land and by sea—in short, time
sion of taxation, then he says the act of parliament is a would not suffice for me to enumerate the different pro-
national engagement which we are bound to respect. I jects which are urged upon the Government from time
would ask the house, in considering this question of na- time to time, and which in some instances they are coin-
tional engagements, to recollect the necessity of balanc- pelted to adopt, and which necessarily add materially
ing the income from year to year with the expenditure, to the aggregate of the public expenditure. If this
and that in a country whose taxes can be so little be pre- system is to go on, and the Government are to be
determined, every year that question of balancing the charged with 'backwardness, and with being influenced
expenditure with the income must be solved. Now, what by a niggardly spirit if they 'vesture to interpose an
I want to know is, are we tolayrit down that all engage- obstacle on the ground of expense, and the house, as
orients of thi, sort for the remission of taxation are to be bas been stated on some occasions, decline to support
beldsacred, whileengagementsfor thepayment ofdebt are the Government in resisting such demands—then it
to be looked upon as absolutely worthless T I quite agree will ba impossible to make those reductions in taxation
that engagements made by act of parliament to discharge which the right hon. gentleman opposite speaks of as
rational debt are always subject to certain conditions, necessary, (Hean) The same rule applies in regard to
I admit that Parliament never can tie up the hands of those rues of Colonial and Indian policy which are ad-
its successors, and that it is always open to the house to vocated by many gentlemen in and out of this house. If
reconsider engagements of this kind that it may have . we are to extend cur armies in those dependencies—if
entered into. lam not the advocate of irrevocable and we are to go on enlargieg our empire, and wherever
unchangeable laws—that is a fallacy which has long there are a few British merchants we are to send ships to
since exploded—but if this doctrine of holding to na- protect them—in the event of any dispute between them
tional engagements where it is for our immediate eon- and the natives—and if we are to maintain nearer home
venience we should do so, and treating them as valueless that spirit of foreign policy which the house has recently
when to fulfil the obligation would tend to our present shown so strong an inclination to support—(oh, oh, and
inconvenience—if this be the principle on which we are hear, bear)—if we are to be perpetually menacing our
to act it ought to be dedared. (Hear.) The right hon, neighbours, and if at the extremity of the world we are
gentleman, in applying this doctrine to the finances of always to be prepared with fleets and armies to afford
the present year, sap we are under a sacred engage- protection to British interests, it will be in vain for Go-
ment
to reduce the income tax, and by allowing the law vernment to attempt to reduce expenditure to that point
to take its course to dininish that impost from 7d. to sd. which will admit of the abandonment of an im-
in the pound. lot when we are thus called upon to give portant source of revenue. (Hear, hear.) . I did not
effect to a solemn national engagement, perhaps we may intend to trouble the house at such length, but before I
take a more commonplme—a less dissolving view of the sit down I would again urge the house to caveat itself
amount of benefit that will be derived by the taxpayer with a settlement of the financial affairs of the present
from this relief. Now et me ask, what is the extent of year. Hon. members can scarcely forget the experience
relief which that change will afford ! During the war of the previous 'year, when, after the estimates were
the income tax was 16,.. in the pound—equal to 6/. 13s. prepared, the Indian revolt broke out with such intensity
43. per cent. On the return of peace the late Govern- as threatened to reverse all our calculations. (Hear,
ment, not acting in obedience merely to popular de- bear.) I believe that the assurances which, at the close
mends, but in accordance with what they thought the of the session, were given by my right hon. friend (Mr.
interests of the countre, proposed to take off the war 93. V. Smith) with regard to the pressure upon our finances
which was equal to 31.155. per cent. Everybody will caused by those Indian disturbances, have been realised
see that that was a eunstantial relief, and it was felt as (hear, hear)—but we gave thoswassuranees with great
such by every class of hcomes, upon whom the high rate reserve and great mistrust in our own judgment, and
of the war income tax tressed with great severity. The without any certainty that they would be justified by
result was the income tax of last year was 7d. in the the result. Had events taken another turn it might
pound, or 2/. 18e. 41. per cent., which for an income tax have been our duty to have called Parliament together
cannot be considered oppressive or severe. Well, the in the course of the autumn or early in the winter, to
right hon. gentleman takes off 23. in the year—one roil- have laid before them the increased estimatese and asked
lion of which only comes into effect this year—be talt.a their assfsta.n.o i. making 1,.. ........,...._„,,;],,,,„ eeeenee_
off 163. 81. per cent., and so reduces the 21. 18s. 4d. to tions than those we have been compelled to resort to.
21. ls. id. per cent., the whole amount cf relief afforded With our enormous empire, and the extent to which the
this year being, however, only the 41. per cent. I say energy and enterprise of Engliehmen is carried, and the
that that is an amount of relief that will scarcely be felt extent to which that enterprise is protected and en-
by those who pay the income tax.. A reduction of couraged, it is quite impossible at the beginning of any
163.83. per cent. is not an amount that would be seuibly year to say with confidence what will be the limit of the
felt by persons el large means, who do not gene- expenditure even of that year, much less what may be
rely calculate their incomes with such strict accuracy as the state of things two or three years hence. There-
for so small a chauge to make any difference to them, and f•re I trust the house will not enter into any prospeo-
on the other hand the persons with -limited incomes— tive engagements with respect to the taxation of future
those with 2001. or 300/, a year—the 16s. 83. per cent. years. (Hear, hear.) :I do not ask them to keep up a
per annum is so small a sum that it cannot be said to particular tax, but merely to abstain from entering into
afford to them any substantial relief. (Oh, oh, and -any rash obligation, and to leave themselves, when the
laughter.) Therefore I say that the ,night hon. gentle- proper time arrives, free to exercise their discretion in
man, in his arrangement, by not payitig the Exchequer dealing with the question according to the circumstances
bonds either wholly or in part, but applying the money as they then exist. (Cheers.)
to the reduction of the income tax, has violated an im-
portant principle of finance without giving any substan-
tial relief to the taxpayer. (hear.) There is another for the convenience of the house if there had been some
notice of the discussion of this question. He entirely
important question involved in the right hon. gentleman's
plan. He denounCes the income tax as unjust, and re- concurred in the endeavours of his right hon, friend to
garde it as a notional obligation that that tax should draw attention to certain serious consequences of the
expire in 1860. But we know nothing of what may be practice now unfortunately on the increase, of view-
the state of our finances in 1860 ; we do not know whe-
ther our expenditure will admit of our dispensing with lug the house, not as a curb upon expenditure, but
o
5,000,000/, of taxes, which is the amount at which then the contrary, of bringing its influence to bear as a
. income tax will stand. Is it probable that there will be stimulus to increased expenditure. But when censure
a surplus revenue of 5,000,0001. to .enable you to dis- was thrown on the house, he must say, as one of those
people with
that enoug hat act ? (H
toear suppose that we may- in a for an increase of expenditure, that Governments were
position in the year 1860 to d not without blame in the matter, as they sometimes
problem. I hope it may so prove ; but it may turn out offered to the attacks of this house a feeble resistance
that there is no surplus, and then if it is to be under- which scarcely carried with it the air of seriousness, and
stood that we are bound to abandon this 5,000,0001., the they had thus pernaitied the house th
produce of the income tax, the question will arise what of the executive. The right bon. to
gentleman
e functions
ni ticed a
other source of taxation you can resort to obtain an equal rumour that the state of
the finances was not satisfac-
sum ? The income tax falls for the most part on the tory. As to last year, he (Mr. Gladstone) hat hoped
wealthier portion of the community. (Hear, hear, and that they had had enough of the subject; but while he
Oh.) It is easy to get up here in an assembly of gen- did not think it was convenient to discuss any matter in
tlemen and denounce the income tax in the strong terms that house on the grounds of rumour—(hear)—he must
which the right hon. gentleman thought fit to employ, point out that the state of the finances was not a matter
That is a very easy mode of getting up a cheer; but of rumour, but a matter of figures, and he for one ad-
before that tax can be
abolished,abolihe ,and before you can hered to the opinion that it was anything but satisfac-
substitute for it 5,000, taxes levied upon tan hered
(Rear.) In speaking of the reduction of the debt,
general consumption of the country—and therefore the right hon. gentleman had included the 1,100.000/.
taxes affecting all daises of the community-ea will be- fer the redemption of the Sound Dues, It was a mis-
name necessary for you to address assembles of a take to call that a reduc ion of debt. It was a payment
different character—assemblies of persons who will no of a charge arising in the course of the year, and the
doubt meet together, 'and which wiil oontain amongst a money was borrowed from the expenses of the war. To
large number who do not pay the income taxa very few call that a reduction of debt was to use a form of lan-
who do pay it—as this house contains very few.persens guage calculated to mislead. These were matters of fact
who are exempt amongst a large number who are liable. which there was no occasion to enhance or exaggerate,
and which it could be no great advantage to discuss.
That is a consideration I would press upon the notice of
the house, before they take a step which may have the When his right hon. friend said, "Don't let us make
.effect in a future year of fettering their deliberations, these engagement binding and unconditional," he (Mr.
and prevent their taking that course which they may Gladstone) could not help feeling how strongly the
then jtolge to be most conducive to the interests of the warning applied to the right hon. gentleman's own en-
country. I would call attention for a moment to a brief gagement to pay off under the name of Sinking Fund
comparison founded upon the right hon. gentleman's one million and a half per annum. It was true that Mr.
own figures for the present year of the direct and tee in- Pitt's proposal, which it was said by his friends would
direct taxa ion of the o luntry—with a view of seeing be his beat title to the approbation of posterity, had been
waethet it is realty advisable that we should pledge our- abandoned, but there was much more to be said for that
selves to the abolition of the income tax. Aocordiog to project as invented by Mr. Pitt, than as now revived.
the right bon, gentleman's statement, the produce of the If the theory was one which would not bear the teat of
customs and excise, which form the great bulk of our practice, at least Mr. Pitt had never seen it fai'. But
indirect taxation,. will be 41,500.000/. This is the wh tt was to be said of those who having seen it fail, and
amount of our indirect taxation. Lit us now look to having heard every eminent man give testimony against
the direct taxation, and see how very small is its com-
parative amount, it, bad three years ago constituted it afresh ? (Hear.)
mount, and that alter all that has been said How had it operated 1' Why, this year the want
about raising a large, part of our revenues by direct amounted to 250,000/., and the Minister of the Crown
taxation from the more opulent classes. The customs told them it was impossible to fulfil the engaeeneent.
and excise produce 41,500,000/. ; the land tax, The right hon. gentleman did not appear to have suffi-
-1,200 ; the assessed taxes, 2,000,000/. ; the in- cient confidence in his' own plan to go to a division.
come tax at the reduced rate, 5,000,000/. ; making to- (Hear, and a laugh.) He was sorry to hear the right hon
gather 8,200,000/. S.rictly speaking that is the total gentleman say that the only means of reducing the debt
of our direct taxation, and if you take from that the was by the meats he suggested; for there was no doubt
whole of the income tax, all that will remain is that the debt had been reduced very considerably 3,200,0001. There There is another class of taxes which I class ing the last 30 years. Did lie think that the system
with direct taxation, though they differ in some respects which be designated as alone Practicable would pay off
from the preceding. Thema are stamps, probate duty, half as much in a similar period i He hoped the matter
and succession duty, amounting to 7,550,000/. Then would ba brought 'to a fair issue. (Hear, 'hear.) The
tbere is the revenue from postage, which in some house ought to have an Opinion one way or other. If the
respects partakes of the character of a direct tax, though pre sent system was to last, let them declare it by taking
it is in fact payment of service rendere.d—that is calcu- some positive step. If they considered that it was bad,
lated by the right hon. gentleman at. ,200,000/ , making' let them bane done with it altogether. If 1,500,0001. a
together 10,750,0001. But, adding this total to the year was to be paid in this manner, of course the fund-
other, they do not equal one-half the amount of the in- holder had a great interest to keep up that system. The
direct taxes, (Hear,.) Well, sir, under Vaese circum- objections originally raised when this arrangement was
stance, I confess it seeps to me that the house ought proposed gained fresh strength so long as it wa, cor-
net to come to a distinct pledge with regard to the tinued, but not allowed to become efficacious. (Hear.)
period at which either the income tax, cr any other tax, They were bound to pay off 1,500,0001. Was there any
shall cease. Ido not wish to beunelerstoedal expressing possible condition of affairs in which the income being
any opinion against the cessation of the income viz at sufficient all but that amount, the Chancellor of the Ex-
any time when the interest of the country shall permit chequer would come down to the house and ask for an
its abolition. lam no advocate for the income tax All increase of 1,500,000/. to pay off the debt I Would any
I desire is that when the time arrives for discussing that conceivable Chancellor of the Exchequer do so ? (A
subject we shall be free to deal with it, and not find our- laugh.) Would the right bon, gentleman do so himself if
selves tied up by a declaration of the right hon. gentle- he were Cbanceller of the Exchequer when that state of
man's by which the hots° is to be held bound. (Hear.) things should arise I (Hear, and lauelater.) He had not
I for one refuse to allow my judgment to be interfered done justice to the ordinary sinking fund, as in most
with and fettered by the declaration of the right hon. there was, under fair circumstances, a surplus, the
gentleman, and wish to hold myself perfee ly free in In- yearsapplication of which tended much to reduce the debt.
gore years to exercise nty own judgment upon questions It appeared to him that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
tying;affectin the revenue and expenditure of tbacountry at was under no engagement as to the Exchequer Bonds ;
he and I hope the house will join with me in re- except to reimburse the holders there was no obligation
futing to be bound by any test of that sort which may be to pay it this year. He proceeded to review the caicum-
thought to have been imposed upon them. (near, hear.) stances under welch they were made redeemable in 1858.
The question of the probable remission of the income They were put out as redeemable in this year as the most.
tax must depend upon the view which the house might convenient mode for tbe ehigennes of the time, but that
take of what should be the amount of the public expen- was not intended as a promise that they should be paid
i ditare. It is for the house to regulate that expenditure, this year. As respected tbeincome tax the right hon. gen-
and I must here remark that whatever proposition the tleman had, over-stated the doctrine of covenant or coin-
government may bring forward at the commencement of lead as alleged by those who were in favour of the reduc-
the session fit the different public establishments, when non. No person thought that the house was absolutely
the estimates have been once adopted by the house they pledged to the extinction of the income tax in 1860.
cease to be the estimates of the government, bat become The doctrine of his right hon. friend was not that the
the votes of the house, and it is in vain for hon, gentle- income tax was a great instrument of taxation, which
man to get up and attempt to separate their responsi• might be properly continued for great objects of public
bility from the responsibility of ministers. his the House policy, but that it was a convenient part of the ordinary
of Commons that passes the votes, and nothing can be financial system of the .country—(hear, hear)—but that
more urjust to the right hon. gentlemen oppoeite (the was not the ground on which they obtained the income
government) than to hold them responsible for the ex- tax from the peoele in 1842, when it wa.s enacted ; in
penditure involved in the estimates atter they have been 1845, when it was re-enacted ; and in 1853, when it was
voted by the house. It is with the house that the re- extended to Ireland, and carried down to a lower Oahe
sponsibility ultimately note, and whether before in- (Hear, hear.) _ A directly opposite language was held,
quiry or after inquiry they sanetisn the expenditure it and Parliament and the country were told that they
'a h. t competent fur them afterwards to blame the go- were asked to pay an income tax because it was a coil-
vernmeue. (Rear, hear.) Well, sir, baying had tbe ex• venient portion of the ordinary resources of the country,
perience during the last few years which is gained by but because certain great ends of policy were to be at-
sitting on the opposne bench, and having the respon- tained by it. (Hear.) First, an active reconstruction
sibi ity of balancing the revenue and expenditure of of our commercial and financial system; and, secondly,
the country, I feel bound to say that I have witnessed the maintenance of the honour and interests of the coun-
with some surprise that in the present slate of try in an European war. (Hear.) Both objects had
peitiee— in the absence of any strong feeling, a
anyan been attained, and if they were going to change the in-
great public demand out of doors—' n the absence of Y come tax from a special tax to an ordinary tax, to be
compact party organisation in Parliament, it is the Go- applied to the common expenditure of the country, it
vernrnent that has become thegreatadvocate of economy, ought not to be done in the dark, It ought to be well
and the different sections of the house that have taken understood. And before making it such, the country
upon theme, lves t) be the advocates of increased exPeil- ought to have an opportunity of giving its verdict whe-
diture. lam bound to say that the great pressure now ther or not it would gay taxation on that footing or not.
brought to bear on the Government is not, as formerly, (Hear, bear.) The income tax was first put on twelve or
for the diminution of expenditure, but comes from sail- thirteen years since, and hail been kept up, to a certain
one quarters, and is in its nature personal and sectional, extent, for the benefiiial remission of taxation ; but that
and is directed to an increase of
exp Govern)enditure. Rear. was not the case now, and he asked them what had been
It is a pressure which it is verthe history of tine paper duties, the wine duties, and
y difficult for any-
meat to resist
marine insurance chines of late years. (Hear.) The pro-
; and the house will never become ful'y
conscious of its responsibility in this respect unt it the
cess of remission of taxation had been completely ar-
problem is solved of equalising revenue and-expenditure,
rested, and without saying one word about its resurnp-
What the house is too much pledged to in the present tion they talked of the continuance of the income tax,
circumstances of the country is the increase of expendi- because it was a convenient mode of taxation. (Rear.)
tare, and at the same time the reduction of taxation. Not only had the changes for which the tax was imposed
(Hear.) Teat is a process which of course cannot ge on been stopped, tra. for benefitting the consumer andthe
very long, unl se you have recourse to the ruinous sys- general body of the people, but they had begun to travel
tern of peace lean?. I admit the right hon, gentleman the in an oppo.ito direction•-(bear)—by the reimposition of a
Coanceiler of the Exchequer has not hinted-at any such duty on sugar of 10s. per cwt. and of ls. per pound on tea.
course ; but toleea the house is prepared to have recourse His right hon. friend the member fir Radnor had
to a system of peace loans, increased expenditure and
reduced taxation cannot go on very long together. Whentaeoured the house with an immense number of figares
to show that a great extent el indirect taxation bad been
I urge that the pressure in the house was in the direction
remitt-d, but he Lad omitted to eta e that two millions
of increased expenditure, I only do justice to those gen- were last year added to the permanent taxation, (Hear.)
tlemen who are the authors cf that pressure when I eay, ; It was right, he, thought, the house and the country
that 'it is very rarely that it is made without a view to should have a clear utetersland in; upon the subject, and
ects of a public and useful nature. The desire fee the if the-latter were of opinion that the income tan should
improvement of each branch of the public service which be permanent, by all means let it be .; and he was
those connected with it entertain, and the desire for the bound to say that he dil not think thepaid house had shown
attaioraen tof some particular object of a public character that degree of personal selfishness as a body to the in•
which each person has in view, naturally induces him to come tax, ought to expose it to censure from the course seek the largest grantsfor that puapnse. How fee clue nty it might pursue in reference to it. There were many ob do we bear in this house suggestions for improving the jectfons, however, to the income tax being made a per-
condition of the solder—the improvement of barrack ac- tnanent tax. One of them was a moral objectien—(eear) commodation—and what numerous Power° brought for-
:---and he Expressed his belief that it did more to corrupt'
ward for the benefit of the army and the extension of our
military force, all of them involving a large increase to and demoralise, not from the accident of its levy, e r the
fault of those who levied it, bat from the essential nature
the public expenditure. lam aware that those suggth-
of the tax itself—(hear)—and the other objection was,

that so long as it was a permanent tax so long it would mnd sea vvhicb are easily reached for a few pounds, and
be vain to talk of economy and effective reduction in o which your population as been draughted off year
expenditure, from its being so productive a source, and Stet- year. Every, man who goes to those colonies re-
an engine so convenient and easy te levy. (Rear, hear.) ,radiates your policy, repudiates you r debt, and thanks
It was, therefore, in consequence of his b-lief that our
Maven that et last he has found a country where in-
scale of expenditure admitted of considerable reduction tretry can have its reward, and where men calling them-
that he wee of opinion the tax should come to a speedy elves statesmen are not using every engine of Govern-
termination. (Hear, hear.) He thought the house were sent to deprive him of the produce of his industry and
justified in entertaining the Expectation that the right ;o diminish the comforts and independence of his family-
horiouraele baronet the member for Radnor would have Ind you, landed proprietors of England, remember that
told the house in the course of his remarks what be however many of your countrymen may emigrate, your
would have done if he bat been the Chancellor acres remain, and you will have by-and-by a different
of the Exchequer. (Hear, and laughter.) He, however, tone in this house after another reform in Parliament.
went very near it, but he did not quite come up to the Your succession duties will be overhauled, and will not
work—(laughter)—but be (Mr. Gladstone)thought some- be got rid of so easily as at present. (A lauMa.) Your
thing material was to be extracted from what he did _ property-tax which you are assisting the Chancellor of
say, viz., that the reduction last year of the war income fw:Exchequer to throw over will come back to you, and
tax was the deliberate act of the late Government, and Come back in an increased proportion. Rely upon it,
was not surrendered under paltry pressure. (Hear.) He the course which we have pursued forione° years has
was extremely glad to hear the ,datement repeated, be- been foolish and wicked. By casting unfair burdens
cause it was one that had been impugned in various upon the people you will create a spirit of diicontent and
quarters by one hon. gentleman, a memner of the late disaffection, and when they have the power, as they
Government, in his address to his constituents is the shortly will have, to lay taxes upon those who have spent
autumn, who, when challenged by hie constituents whit 1 the money, you may depend upon it the poor will not
the army and tee establishments of the country were thi I always go to the wall and the rich will not always escape.
in a better state when the mutiny broke out, answerel 1 (OM oh.) Those are unpalatable truths. (A. leugb.) I
"How could we have them in a better state, when toe 1 rionn like the income-tax any more than you do, but I
House of Commons, Mr. Disraeli, and others, would not I know it is the duty of Parliament either to diminish
allow us to keep up the war income tax, (Hear, and our expenditure or to maintain the income-tax or some
laughter.) His right hon. friend had now xtee an putl other tax of that kind, and that as we acted in a foolish
e . - guisher on all those rumours, and it could now be no I spirit in involving ourselves in this expenditure, so we
longer said that the extinction of the war income tax was are now acting a cowardly and immoral part in casting
a proceeding extortee from the late Government by the off the burden of expense from our shoulders partly upon
Parliament. But what would the right hon. gentleman the great body of consumers now living, but mostly
have done if he had now been in office? It appears to upon our posterity coming after us. (Hear.)
me if he bad raised the income tax is. 9d., he would The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The
not have reduced the Exchequer bends, but have kept mem h
gentleman the member for Radnor has ac-
up the sinking fund ; but if the income tax had been 5 " °°'
raised by him to 10J. in the pound, he (Mr. Giad- cused me ofintroducing a cowardly budget. After listening
stone) doubted if there would have been a surplus, to the objections of the right hon. gentleman, I think I
He, however, adhered to his opinion, that it was may venture to answer him in the words of the same
the duty of a Minister and Parliament to have a poet whom he has quoted :
clear turplue, and to keep in view that the only time to
pay off a debt was in a time of peace. He did not think "Dug vitat humurn rubes et mania captet."
the Chancellor of the Exchequer was justly charge. The right hon. gentleman first found fault with the state.
able for failing to liquidate the Exchequer bonds, for client I made that there had been a redu .tion in the ex-
which he had not been supplied with a single farthing, peoditure to the amount of 800,0001., and, by comparin and still less ought the charge against hint to proceed
the 'estimates of the present year with those of the
lastg
pend for other purposes the money applicable for their
from those who had induced the house to raise and ex_ estimates
he proved, according to the manner in which he
reduc ion. (Hear.) placed the question before the house, that the statement
Mr: CARD WELL admitted that the Chancellor cf on my part was not authorized. But, sir, I never said
the Exchequer was perfectly justified in postponing the that the saving was on the estimates of this year as corn-
war sinking fund. He t urteer admitted that Govern-
pared with those of last year ; all I said was that by the
ment were not bound to pay off the Exchequer bonds,
but he deneme —mem-. tee course preeema —:,L ..,6“... ems-elements we proposed there would be a reduction
to them was a prudent one. Their payment was poet- in the expencuture to the extent of 800,000/ , and I
posed till a time when we shall have lust the amount of think I can show to the house that that statem.ent was
correct. In the estimates laid upon the table, the army
the income tax. Would they then be able to inset it ?
They were laying the foundation for future Chancellors
of the Exchequer to reimpose the income tax, for if they and
navy, we made a reduction of 400,000/., and in the
did not pay these bonds out of that tax , hey would have other estimates, the miscellaneous and civil service esti-
injurto pay it out of new taxes, checking the prosperity and mates which have been prepared show a like diminution
ing the resources of the country.
Mr. T. BARING defended the much-abused sinking_ of 400 0001. as compared with last year, together ether making
fund, 800,000/ I mentioned, The right' hog:). gentleman
fund, which was the honest wish to pay debts and not
'has
stated the circumstances under which I proposed not
to saddle them on posterity. The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had necessarily courted popularity by remitting to intelfere with the decline of the income-tax this year.
taxes and leaving the debt to take care of itself.
He has declared that our compact, as he calls it, with
Thiess
the diminution of the debt was made obligatory it would reference to the income-tax was not more strict than the
depend upon the conduct of Government how we dealt engagement we had entered into with regard to the war
with it in times of financial ease. As to the question sinking fund. Now, all these engagements are expressly
between direct and indirect taxation, the wisest course Acts of Parliament ; technically speaking, the engage-
was to divide taxation between the two, so as to check :rents are the same ; but what I wish to bring before
consumption and embarrass employment, the house with regard to the income-tax is that there
mere
w considerations of policy connected with that tax
upon the subject under discussion. I did not hear the
Mr. BRIGHT—I wish to make a few observations
hich-it was impossible to avoid taking into account.
I may remind the house that there had been objections
whole of this debate, but what I did hear of it is of that of a serious character urged against the income-tax in its
Ipeorcentinnet: fadotiridmo
nn,oaotnfecitohtehesautbijtecwth. was impossible to avoid a grave
confused character which one might have expected from
from
ththeev,e` (Hear, hear.) Those ob-
the dilemma in which we are placed. (Hear.) One
—not from the cirmcles
side of the house casts the blame Of placing us in ourzethntlemedn
tohfeEngllanldt"
present position upon the other ; but the truth of the they came, on the contrary, from pelfeasislional opulent
tram
matter is, that we have been spending a great deal too traders, and from the humbler classes of society, who
much, and the difficulty is how to raise money to meet complained, with reference to the incedence of the tar,
the demands which have in consequence arisen. (Hear.) of its inju'tice, its inequality, and its inquisitorial cha-
There is a contest between the rice and the poor, and, ratter. (Cheers.) These are not objections, I repeat,
as is generally the case in this country, the poor go to that have been urged by persons ef opulence and
the wall. (Cries of "No, no.") I should be very glad wealth ; these are epithets that have not been used
if I could agree with the gentlemen who cry "No ;" but except by persons of humble and difficult fertunee; and
when you maintain a large and permanent tax upon the whole clamour raised against the income-tax has
articles of import which are mixed up with the comfort never proceeded from the opulent and elevated classes of
of every cottager's family in the kingdom, and you rc- the country. It was to meet those complaints that there
duce a description of tax almost touching nobody who have been so many plans propounded with a view to
has less than 1001. a year, I cannot help thinking that recognise some difference between the incomes brought
people out of doors who read this debate welcome to the under the operation of the tax, and that a Committee of
same conclusion as that at which I have arrived. The this house eat to consider the subject for a considerable
fact is, we are endeavouring to do that which is impos- period of time . I rein the opinion that it was imos-
sible—trying to render a very heavy taxation easily Bible to keep the incta p
income-tax in its present form as a
borne. (Hear, bear.) Such a taxation never was and permanent feature of our financial system, and I think
never will be easily endured. (Hear, hear.) You rim,t I did not misunderstand the feeling of the house and the
shift it from one shoulder to another. The rich and the country when I recommended that course which I hope
powerful will do all in their power to shift the burden Morn the house will ultimately sanction with respect to it.
themselves, and it will rest, as in this country is the case, (Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman the member for
mainly upon the great masses of the population, whose Radnor (Sir G. C. Lewis) says, if the course which I
incomes are small, but whose consumption of taxed ar- have indicated is pursued we shall
and
with in 1860
tidies is in consequence of their numbers very consider- with a loss of 5,000,C001, of taxes; and with •no substi-
able. It has been said that much of the difficulty in which tute for it ; but in that argument the right hon. gentle-
we find ourselves in reference t, this question of taxation man took no account of the falling in of the annuities
is to be attributed to our foreign policy. (Hear.) I concur which have been referred to in the course of this debate.
in that opinion, We are pursuing a foreign policy which I think it is of the u most importance that the house
every man among us condemns, in so far as it has been should have a clear opinion on this subject; and if they
acted upon by a past generatton—(hear, hear)—and have a clear one that they should act with fire/mesa and
which will receive at the hands of a future generation an consistency. There is no greater fallacy than that of
equal share of condemnation. Alla, ion has been made to supposing that because you do not approve of the iecotire-
the combative spirit which hay been raised among the • tax yen are therefore opposed to all direct taxation.
people of this country ; but whenever that spirit has been (hear, hear.) Approval of a fair amount of direct tax"
raised there have always been statesmen ready to take ation is perfectly consistent with disapproval of the
advantageof it for the warp..o of placing themselves upon manner in which direct taxation is at present raised. I
that (the Treasury) bench, or, if already there, to male- believe it is of the utmost importance on social and
Min their positi n upon it. We have had two wars Since political considerations of the highest character that the
the particular time to which the right hon, gentleman income-tax should not be retained as a permanent feature
has referred, one of which was begun, was carried on, of our financial system. (Cheers.) But if in any year
and was ended without, so far as I k now, one single word circumstances of great difficulty and emergency should
of informati.m being given to this house—(hear, hear)— arise, no one for a moment would pretend that this tax
and, mere, I believe that war was brought to an end a was not to be had recourse to as a source of supply.
the time it was because the Minister stood in some (Hear.) I shall say nothing with regard to my proposi-
fear on account of a memorable debate and division eon with reference to the war sinking fund. I resisted
which had taken place in this house in connection that war sinking fund with the two right hon. gentlemen
with another war. That war the house condemned who have addressed the house to-night, and, as every
—the Chinese war and the Minister thought one knows that under present circumstances the effort
that perhaps be might be trespassing too much on the to retain it would have been perfectly idle, it is un-
patience and credulity of the country, and therefore he necessary for me to say a word on the eutject.
huddled up one war at least, that he might have only Now, on tee point of the Exchequembonde, I ait
the other to manage with the country and Parliament. there is great difference between
our engage me nlnto
But that Chinese war the House of Commons has con- redeem the Exchequer bonds and our engagements
(Heardimmed, and that condemnation has never been reversed. with regard to the war sinking fund, and I did with
, hear.) It stands upon our records now; artd the greatest regret propose to the house that some post-
although, from circumstances which few men will look ponetnent. of the settlement with respect to the Exche-
back to with satisfaction, a Parliament was returned quer bonds should take place. The house has come to
apparently to reverse that sentence, yet no mare Minister a distinct conclusion on that subject. They have placed
or member, has dared to ask that Parliament to reverse at my disposal the necessary sum of 2,000,000/. in order
that sentence. (Oh, oh 0 Let the bon. gentlemen who. to redeem those bonds; and now, as the right hon. gen-
cry "Oh r' try to do it. (Hear.) We do not know now tleman says that the house has a right to know what we
whether we are at war with China or not. I understand have done on the subject of those Exchequer-bonds,
that a celebrated individual, a native of that country, has and has accused me of some want of courtesy in the
been taken primmer and is now in India. Is he a pri- 'natter in not giving the holders of the bonds the alter-
soner of war, or has he been taken away merely as a uative of renewing them, I will tell the house what
curiosity ?'(Laughter,) Ido not know what the Govern- I have thought it rudest to do. The house permitted
meat of Lord Derby ai doing as to that question They me to raise a sum of 2,000,000/. by Exchequer bonds,
at least are not respensible for entering upon that war payable at a period not later than six years from the date
—(hear, hear)—but they will make themselves respon, of such bonds, and the interest not to exceed 3/. 10a.
Bible if they delay one single hour to bring it to a con- per cent. I shall obtain an advance immediately of
elusion. We are in that country, to my mind, as I 1,000,0001., payable in 1862, and at 31 per cent. That,
solemnly believe, making the Eeglish name hateful, and under the circumstances of the case, is a very moderate
making the spread of our civilisation and our religion and fair rate of interest, because, although it is possible
utterly impossible in that portion of the earth. We to get money for a short period at 3 per cent., when you
have no object, for every man admits we can't have ter- come to a period of six years the case is very different.
i ritory. We gain nothing but trade. Trade surely will I have also made arrangements at the end of the year to
be better carried on with a nation with whom we are at call for another 1,000,000/, at the same rate, but I have
peace than with one with whom we have fraudulently a lively confidence that circumstances will not render it
and upon false pretences plunged into war. There is necessary for me to call for that 1,000,0001. (Hear,
one other point cmnected with our expenditure to which hear.) I say, under all the circumstances of the case,
I wish to refer. I never yet have seen a Minister since and with due humility, when these imputations are
I have sat in this house who made any real attempt te thrown out so freely of being disregardful of the publics
diminish tee expenditure of the country. To take one faith, that that is a prudent, and, if carried int• effect,
case. Ido not know the exact amount of the navy will be a very successful arrangement. (Cheers.) I have
estimates, hut I know they are some millions in excess confidence in the state of the revenue because, as I
of what was voted a few years ago. I suppose my showed the other day, there has been during the whole
hon, friend the member for Lambeth (Mr. W. Williams) of this year a considerable rally in its chief brat °hes.
could tell me to a sixpence--(laughter)—for I believe During the last quarter a deficit in the principal articles
these vast estimates weigh upon his mind', and has been absolutely changed into a very erable
disc,urage him () precisely as they do me. Now, b surplus on the estimate of the Chancellor ofcons theid Exche-
country has a fleet that can measure itself vita that of quer; and perhaps it will be interesting to the house if
this country except France. Does anybody who sit, I tell them what is the state of the revenue for the first
there (pointing to the back Opposition benches) deny that month of the present quarter. I will state the revenue
the fleet of Russic cannot compare with ours 1 Austria in some of the principal articles in the month of April,
and Prussia have no fleets at all of any consequence. 1857, as compared with the correspending month of 1858.
Tue United States have one slip of the line and a few Tnisetatement is confined to the Excise, because, although,
frig rtes, bvt not one ship of war in 10 compsred with our the account for the customs is extremely favourable, the
navy. I should like to know why it is necemary thatthis large amount paid for tea duty in April last year would
country ehoule maintain many Istredrtd vessels of War of render it an unsatisfactory subject of comparison ; but
ali sizes, when there is no other country which has a really there is an absolute increase in the month. In
fleet to oppose to us, except that country which is out the month of April, 1857, when we were in the very
nearest neighbour and closet ally, and which, we are height and flesh of our prosperity, and before the own-
told, is only anxious to be on teems of amity with us ? looroiai crisis we have since experienced was dreamed of,
Hon, gentlemen may Mink the amity of nations is not the amount received from the Excise was 1,366,0001.
always to be rilied upon, and althoueh I (to net d ium For the month of April this year, after having passed
in the least the desire of the Emperor of the French t, be through the !ate commercial calamities, the amount was
upon terms ef friendship with this country, yet I never 1,602,000/ (Hear, hear.) For stamps, the receipts in
had myself the slightest sympathy lor that alliance which Awril,lBs7, were 484,0001.; in April, this year, 578,000/.
has existed between France and England. Arney with (dear, hear.) Then, there is ;,11 increase in the land and
all nations, justice and courtesy to but intimate aid :t-sensed taxes, taking the Caine periods, of from 663,3001.
political alliances with none.
That is my policy, and I to 668,000/.; not a large increase, but important as show-
' believe it is the only policy in these matters which cat, big the tendency of our revenue to improve. (Hear,
emd to good. If you ask the French Minister of Marine hear.) The increase
why his estimates are so large, what will he tell Le
you 1 tee most favourable kind, and we have therefore a
He will tell you he is building great ships, which he be- right to assume that the striking indications of a rising
Laves will never be of the least use, because England is revenue, of which I have spoken, are not of a fleeting
building great ships, which every sensible Englishman man and evanescentfti charocter, hut arise from the essential
also knows will nut be of the slightest use. He will say, .e, ource ceuritry. (Hear, hear.) The right bon
France has almost no colonies, very little foreign cone gentleman did not end his speech with any motion to
morce as compared, with this country, that France has indicate that he meant to oppose the second reading,
pretension whatever to a great navy except her near- and therefore I will n t anticipate anything so disagree.
policy of Eegland in alwal a able. (Hear, and a laugh.) The hon. member for BM-
nneoms to England, and the
maintaining an envrtnous navy. Suppeeing that a mi, is- ruingharn made some observations respecting taxation
itr efteis couetry, dari,,g to grappe. with this questi .ri which Id i riot think are just. (Hear, hear.) Ido not
were to say to the Emperor of the French, inste: d i f think it is the main object of this house to remove taxa•
squabbrne a',-boul the Sut a Canal, or, I will not nay bc- eon from property to labour. (Hear, hear.) I do not
t ' but diffmlem from him upon the question of the (Mirk there is any desire in this holm to evade the fair
may i Fig,,
D o,abian Principalities, or neg Aiatieg about some pm - burdens a hich it should bear, and if this were a fitting
try matter the decision of which eitear way WI lio opportunity to go into the subject is detail—and it is
affect any man in England —suppose, jested of that, a impossWee to forum a just opinion regarding it without
Mini le rwtre to say, " Why are we thus always plat - g,ming into detail—l could show that the position of the
ine at heg"..taring one another with millions spent wpm, hon. gentle:emu, that the necessary consequence of our
,tir nev while our populations are guff' ot in g ~, ere! % -.)pi em is that t ixaiiou must rest on the great bulk of the
that we may hold our fists. in each Meter; face ?" 1 popuhi ion
,c. hose incomes are small, is a position which
ask the house i
!On
bg all eeriousness, would it not be bet.
ao c inn' t demonstrate, and that, on the contrary, I will
ter, vl i on for the next five years, as we resit say the great bulk, tut the greater part of the taxa.
have for the last five years, building vast, ships, which t:oo raised in this country is a burden on those who are
a'l geed men hope will never be u;ed, and which all c:ll,d people of propel ty and the mass of the population
sensible men know are not necei,sary for the purposes who, a hether as doilies' cservante or in other oepacitielle
of our security—would it not be better to ask the actually depend upon that property. not
French Government, "Is it not possible to relieve your ttie
emeirtute ty or the occasion to enter i anto ,the discus.
Exchequer and our Exchequer, to relieve your p ople Moe, hat I could not listen to such an expression of
met our people from ne Pressure of this vast Meatus, opieete en ihe part of the hon. member for Binning.
which ice are constantly compelled to wring from them ?" hatn without at least entering my protest against It
ll
Why riot try some such course as that ? You have a seerditm and i xere•eing my readiness whenever the ocoa•
million cf paupers in England and Wales, you have pion offers to grapple with him on that subject, and esta•
others in Scotland and Ireland, you have colonies be- blish ti the satisfaction of all unprejudiced men that is

I, and
f year
es re-