The Sun.
London, England, 1867-02-02 00:00:00

Union of English and Irish Reformers.

MANCHESTER, Friday.
A meeting was held in the Free Trade-hall this
evening, for the purpose of hearing The O'Donoghue
" on the Irish Question, and the Importance of the
Union between English and Irish Reformers." The
chair was occupied by Mr. Bright, M.P. There
were also present Mr. T. B. Potter, M.P., Mr. G.
Hadfield, M.P., Mr. J. Lutt, Mr. R. Whitworth,
M.P, Mr. J. Field, M.P., Sir E. Armitage (the High
Sheriff), the Mayor of Oldham, Mr. E. Beales, Mr.
Ernest Jones, &c. The hall was densely crowded at
an early hour, and the popular leaders were loudly
cheered as they made their appearance on the platform.
The Secretary read letters from the Hon. G. For-
tescue, M.P., and Mr. P. A. Taylor, expressive of
their entire approval of the objects of the meeting.

Mr. Batairr, on rising, was received with loud
and prolonged cheering. When the applause bad
subsided he said—Although I am altogether unac-
customed to take the chair at great popular meet-
ings, yet I undertake this office of chairman to-night
without much anxiety and without dismay. (Laugh-
ter and cheers.) lam not aware that I have ever
before been on this platform with a greater sense of
ease and comfort than that which I enjoy at this
moment--(cheers)—and this is accounted for by two
circumstances—the one being that I think we shall
pass this evening in great harmony—that the meet-
ing will be very unanimous on the sentiments that
will be offered to you ; and the other circumstance
is this, that as chairman, keeping myself to my duty
as chairman, it will be rather my business to listen
than to speak. (No, no.) There are several thou-
sands of persons in the hall, and to most of them
the privilege of listening is a very common one, and
I have no doubt it is so common that it is by no
means sufficiently appreciated (loud laughter)—
but if you had occasionally to stand on a plat-
form, as I have often done, and as my hon.
friend is expected .to do to-night, to address a
great audience on a great question, with a great sense
of responsibility, you would find that hitherto you
have very much undervalued your privileges as lis-
teners of this kind. (Cheers and laughter.) The
object of this meeting—the direct and immediate
object—is to present an address to my hon. friend
the member for Tralee, and to hear a speech from
him. (Cheers.) I need hardly tell you that he is one
of the most distinguished members that Ireland
sends to the Imperial Parliament. (Loud cheers.) I
think I need not claim for him from you that cour-
tesy which youwill besure to extend to him. I think
I may promise myself that you will give him your
approval, and, judging from what I hi-e heard on
past occasions, I shall be greatly surprised if you do
not listen to him with admiration. The O'Donoghue
is a near relation of the great O'Connell—(great
cheering)—a man of whom English writers of this
day—some of them, at least—are accustomed to
speak in terms of condemnation. My hon. friend
represents a considerable portion of his countrymen,
and, standing here to-night, I feel con fident that he
will be able to do something to draw Englishmen
and Irishmen nearer together for purposes highly
honourable and advantageous to them both.
About three months ago I had a short but very
pleasant visit to the city of Dublin. I believe it was
truly a visit of peace, of goodwill, and of an un-
doubted patriotism. I was entertained there most
magnificently at a grand public banquet, and I had
the opportunity the night before I left Ireland to
speak to a considerable and public meeting assembled
in one of the halls of the city. Now, I venture to
say, whatever may have been the comments upon
that visit, and upon the speeches which I delivered
in Dublin, I have some reason to hope that my
labours there were not wholly fruitless. (Cheers.)
There is, as you all know who read the newspapers,
or associate with Irishmen in England—there is a
very considerable party in Ireland hostile to Eng-
land, and hostile to the Empire. When speaking to
them in Dublin I did not blame these men, for I
think in my conscience that nothing can be more
justifiable in Ireland than a dislike for what Ireland
has seen for a long period back of the legislation of
the Imperial Parliament in regard to the perma-
nent and just interests of that island. (Cheers.)
Ireland has been governed for the most part as a
conquered country, and I am sorry to say it has
been governed with less of wisdom and of justice
in some striking particulars than any intelligent con-
queror would show to the conquered. (Cheers.)
There is a party in Ireland who think that if Ire-
land were severed from England, whether it were
governed under a Monarchy or under the form of a
Republic, as an independent State,—that if Ireland
could be floated 2,000 miles to the westward, and
were to become a portion of the great United States
of America, the result would be that Ireland would
be governed by the majority of her own people, and
would be directly responsible for her own welfare.
(Hear, hear.) Now, the separation of Ireland from
Great Britain, from the United Kingdom, would in
all probability involve a desperate and sanguinary
strife ; the floating of Ireland 2,000 miles to the
westward is a thing not physically possible, and
therefore in the discussion of this Irish question I
proceed from the basis that the political union of
Great Britain and Ireland is a thing decided and
fixed for a long time, and therefore upon that basis
we should consider what can be done for Ireland.
If I had sufficient time, or if it were my duty to go
fully into the question here, my object would be to
show that the people of Great Britain are not hostile
to the people of Ireland—(cheers)—that if you could
poll all the men in Great Britain, throughout Eng-
land and Wales and Scotland, you would not find a
majority of them in favour of maintaining an estab-
lished Protestant Church in Catholic Ireland.
(Great cheers.) Nor would you find them anxious
to support a system of law with regard to land
which perpetuates, and will continue to perpetuate,
if continued, many of the evils of the great confis-
cation which took place two centuries ago ; and if
the Irish National and Liberal party will join with
the National and Liberal party in Great Britain I
have undertaken to show that we can make the rule
in Ireland just as good for the true interests of
Irishmen as if Ireland were an indepen-
dent State, or were, what we know to be
impossible, annexed to the Republic of Ame-
rica. More than 14 years ago I spoke in the
House of Commons on the Irish question, and I sug-
gested that there should sometimes be an Irish ses-
sion of the Imperial Parliament ; but lam consci-
ous now that Parliament is not in a condition, and
has not within itself the elements and the power, to
deal fairly with this great question. (Hear, hear.)
The Tory party, although the minority of the House
of Commons, is yet a very powerful minority ; it is
a large minority in the house, although it is in num-
bers a very small minority of the people. (Cheers.)
The present Government, even if it were to be ad-
mitted that there are in its numbers or in its ranks
intelligent and capable men—(laughter) ; if it were
to be admitted that there are members of the Go-
vernment who would gladly see a great change in
the legislation of the Parliament on the Irish ques-
tion, still I venture to affirm that the Government
would be wholly unable to carry out the necessary
reforms. (Hear, hear.) The party is a blind party
and a perverse party. (Cheers.) Its principles are
formed upon a disregard of equality and justice;
and I hope before long, as a party governing this
country, that, as its rise to power during last year
was built up upon tactics the most base, so its fall
will be as rapid and as ignominious as to
correspond
with its rise. (Great cheers.) The only path to a
real improvement in the legislation of the Imperial
Parliament on the great question which would affect
Ireland is through a representative reform. (Cheers.)
I have said before that the class chiefly represented
will not or cannot do it, and that it will require the
strength of the opinion of the nation to effect the
reforms that are required. (Cheers.) If the Par-
liament at Westminster would really represent the
people of the United Kingdom, then an Irish ses-
sion would be possible, and justice would be done
where justice has been so long denied. The mea-
sures connected with the Church and connected with
the land once passed through Parliament, once
having received the royal assent, every Irishman in
the lowliest cabin would have a new hope and a new
life. The spring and summer that are yet to come
will not more revive the herbage of our fields than
those measures of justice would restore harmonyand
loyalty in Ireland. I believe, after long considera-

tion, much reading, and much study of the question,
that we might rely on the sovereign remedy of jus-
tice to heal the wound, and toremove the discontent
of Ireland ; that if these measures were passed—but
probably this is only a dream—but if I were the
Minister of the country—(laughter)—having influ-
ence—if I were in a position so responsible and so
powerful—extravagant figure of speech, doubtless—
(laughter)—but which, forthe sake of my argument
I may be permitted to use—if these measures were
once passed, and were once the law of this empire,
then I would throw open the prison doors and let
every political prisoner free. (Loud cheers.) And I
would trust the right of the Crown of this kingdom
with an unfaltering faith to that sense of loyalty
which would be begun by the magnanimous justice
of the Imperial Parliament. (The hon. speaker sat
down amid loud and continued cheers.)
The following address to The O'Donoghue was
then moved by Mr. Howson, and seconded by Mr.
Ernest Jones :

" Sir,—We welcome in you no ordinary adherent to the
cause of Reform, but the representative on the part of Ire-
land and of a union between the reformers of the three
nations. This union has been too long delayed. Its delay
has been the postponement of justice alike to the English
and to the Irish people. The sufferings of your country
touch all hearts, and inspire all hearts not clothed by class
interest to the prof ptings of equity or humanity, with an
earnest desire to redress her wrongs, but that redress may
be obtained it is necessary, as experience shows, that power
should be taken out of the hands of a class and restored to
the hands of the nation. You are now among those who
are resolved with the assistance of your countrymen to put
an end to the reign of coercive acts and martial law in
Ireland, and to inaugurate the reign of religious equality
and of social and economical justice. Divided we have been
weak; combining our efforts we shall command success.
Welcome O'Donoghue! Through you, the foremost cham-
pion of her cause, Ireland places her hand in that of the
English people."

Mr. T. B. POTTER, M.P., supported the address
in a brief speech. He welcomed The O'Donoghue
as the representative of the Irish people, and as
bringing to the English people the aid of their Irish
brethren in redressing the grievances under which
both nations suffered. United he believed they
would prevail, and that it would be impossible to
stem the tide of justice and progress.
The address was unanimously adopted, and, hav-
ing been signed by Mr. Bright on behalf of the
meeting, was presented to The O'Donoghue amid
great cheering.
Similar addresses were presented by Mr. E. Beales
on behalf of the London Reform League and by
delegates from Rochdale and Bradford.
The CHAIRMAN said he had received a letter from
the Scottish National Reform League, of which the
closing paragraph was as follows :

"Recognising in the sister country ono of the chief mem-
bers of the British empire, we cannot but feel that every
unrighteous law, every act of oppression enforced upon her,
falls also upon us and on every member of the body cor-
porate. As common injuries beget common sympathies, so
the only effectual remedy lies in a common union between
the Reformers of England, Ireland, and Scotland ; that
union so auspiciously begun between the three countries by
means of the Reform League receives our hearty support,
and we are assured that all true Reformers will bid it God's
speed."

The OTONOGHUE, M.P., then came forward to
acknowledge the welcome he had received. He was
greeted 'with cheers, again and again renewed. He
said be regarded the meeting as one of peculiar and
even momentous significance. He did not look upon
the reception he had met with as personal to him-
self, but as an emphatic declaration from the people
of this country to the Irish people of their approval
of opinions which he held in common with the mass
of his countrymen. He thought that the Irish
people were the best judges of their own grievances
and of the remedies which ought to be applied
to them. He condemned the system of class
legislation which had been adopted in Ireland, and
was of opinion that it was owing to class legisla-
tion that the country had been brought almost to the
brink of ruin. The best guarantee for the stability,
power, and happiness of the empire was the union
of all the subjects within it in a brotherhood of free-
dom based upon and guarded by the independent
exercise of a widely extended franchise. (Cheers.)
The events of the last few months had done much
to insure a candid and consequently a useful discus-
sion of the Irish question. It was impossible that
there would now ba any difference of opinion about
the political state of the country, and thus a formid-
able obstacle to candid discussion had been removed.
The late Vicaoy stated openly in the House of
Lords that there was a widespread disaffection, and
that statement had been endorsed by the present
Lord-Lieutenant and his advisers, who had taken
great credit to themselves for having prevented an
insurrection by renewing the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act, and making a great display of
military force. An attempt had been made to re-
present the disaffection in Ireland as foreign in its
origin, and as deriving its origin from the other side
of the Atlantic. That was not so. English rule in
Ireland was synonymous with oppression and
tyranny. There always had been a profound sym-
pathy between the Irish in America and their coun-
trymen at home, but that sympathy had only re-
cently taken a political shape, owing to the increas-
ing facilities of communication, and to the growing
strength of those who, from a despairing band of
flying and crouching emigrants, had gradually
swelled into a great nation, confident in their might
and almost frantic with the spirit of retaliation.
(Cheers.) No doubt Irish disaffection had a power-
ful auxiliary in American Fenianism, but no one
could assert with any show of reason that this Fe-
nianism was anything more than the result of that
dissatisfaction which had created and fed it, and in
the absence of which Fenianism would be inexplic-
able and its objects aimless. Personally he was
convinced that nothing could put a stop to the com-
bination unless a voice went across the Atlantic an-
nouncing a new era of equal laws and justice, and
proclaiming that the past must be forgotten. To assert
that Irish disaffection was the result of foreign in-
terference and to abuse the American Irish were
only convenient methods of glossing over the diffi-
culty, and of drawing the attention of the English
public from the actual condition of Ireland.
He denied that the outcry against the Established
Church in Ireland and the existing system of laud
tenure were mere blinds, or that there was any co-
vert attempt to resuscitate long-buried animosities,
and to interpose a barrier between that cordial spirit
of friendship which ought to unite the people of both
countries. Having had a close intimacy with all
classes of his countrymen, then he could confidently
assert that no antipathy existed in Ireland either to
Englishmen or to Protestantism purely as such. He
never knew an Englishman settled in Ireland who
was not popular, or who owed his want of popula-
rity to some encroachment on the rights of others,
which would have made him unpopular wherever
he was. A daily increasing manifestation of friend-
liness between the masses had softened down that
antagonism, which was, no doubt, a prominent fea-
ture in the past history of the two countries. A step
in advance had now been gained by the recognition
of the reality of Irish disaffection. But beyond that
ground he feared they were not likely to advance
for some time. He believed that the causes of Irish
disaffection could be removed by legislation. The
Government of Lord Derby and others believed
otherwise, and assumed that there were no legitimate
causes of disaffection, and that the disaffected could
only be appeased by legislation of a character which
no good man could sanction. Hitherto, no doubt,
legislation had sadly failed, but the failure was to be
ascribed, not to causes of disaffection, being beyond
the reach of just laws, not to the incapacity of our
legislators, nor to an accidental miscarriage of legis-
lation, but to the fact that our legislators were
elected from a class with special interests of their
own. (Cheers.) In Ireland there were about
600,000 persons occupying land as tenants. This
number included only the heads of families, but
taking the most moderate estimate of Lord Dufferin,
that each family consisted of five, they would have
an agricultural population of close upon 3,000,000.
Of the 600,000 heads of families about 580,000 were
tenants at will without leases, and could be dispos-
sessed of the land on the service of a six months' no-
tice to quit; there were therefore 580,000 persons in
Ireland without legal security of any kind for the
possession of their farms, each of whom at the end
of six months might find himself on the roadside, in
the poor-house, or, if he could scrape a few pounds
together, on board an American ship. They might

have toiled upon their farms from morn till night,
and in doing so they might have improved the let-
ting value of the land, but nevertheless the law en-
ables the landlords to evict the tenant without giv-
ing him scarcely a shilling of compensation. (Hear.)
There were millions of his fellow-countrymen living
in Ireland from year to year in this state of inse-
curity. It rendered them the merest slaves ; and un-
less they were differently constituted from the men
of Manchester, in their inmost souls they must long
for the overthrow of a system which compelled them
to endure such a life. (Hear.) Then, again, the
tenant could not bargain ; he must keep his farm on
any terms on which it was offered to him, or bring
either ruin or misery upon himself and those dearest
to him. It was the fashion to talk in some quarters
as if land in Ireland was to be had for the asking,
whereas the truth was there was no land to be had,
because the landlords fancied it to be their interest
to have as few tenants as possible, and keep the
population at a low figure. Some years ago an in-
stance occurred, which would probably be still re-
membered, in which a considerable portion of
the county of Donegal was almost depopulated by
Mr. John George Adair. The tenants were able
and willing to pay the rent, but one on the
estate had been shot by an individual, and for the
offence committed by this one person it was decreed
that hundreds should suffer the most excruciating
agonies of mind and body. They expostulated, cried,
and implored for mercy, but Mr. Adair was inexor-
able, and, surrounded by the seldiers of the Queen,
his myrmidons went forth to drive the people out
and to level their houses to the earth. (Cries of
shame !) The case was brought before the Lord-Lieu-
tenant, the late Lord Carlisle. He expressed his sor-
row, but could not interfere. It was brought also before
the House of Commons, and the Chief Secretary for
Ireland, in the name of the Government, deplored
the act ; but nothing could be done to remedy it,
for Mr. Adair had the law on his side, and there was
no law for the tenants. Could it, then, be wondered
at that the people regarded the law of Ireland as
bad and intolerable? The tenant farmers of Ireland
desired to dwell on the land of their birth, and they
hada prescriptive right to do so. They were prepared
to toil in its cultivation from morn till night as no
negro slave ever toiled before, and therefore he as-
serted, in the presence of that great assembly of free
and enlightened Englishmen, that it was the bounden
duty of the State, if they valued the allegiance of
the people of Ireland, to protect the present race of
occupiers in the possession of the soil. (Loud cheers.)
In conclusion he had one word to say with regard
to the Irish Church. He considered it one of the
healthiest signs of the times to be able to find an
assembly of
,Protestant Englishmen eager for oppor-
tunity to pass sentence of condemnation on the Irish
Established Church as an unparalleled injustice to
Ireland. (Loud cheers.) He could not understand
how it could be reconciled with justice that 700,000
Irish Protestants should possess the whole of the
ecclesiastical revenues of Ireland, while an equal
number of Presbyterians, and about 4,500,000 of
Roman Catholics derived no benefit at all from
them. (Hear, hear.) It was for this reason that the
disendowment of the Established Church was called
for, and the application of its revenue to some pur-
poses of national utility. In debating the question of
the Irish Church he paid no regard to the numerous
collateral issues which were sometimes raised, such
as " Which is the true Church ?" " What were the
theological views of St. Patrick ?" " Did he re-
nounce the spiritual supremacy of the Pope and con-
form to the 39 Articles?"—(laughter)—but he (The
O'Dunoghue) adhered to the simple argument that,
na matter how these various issues might be de-
cided, the fact still remained that the Established
Church was the Church of a small minority of the
Irish people, and therefore had no title whatever to
the ecclesiasticalrevenues of the country. (Cheers.)
He hoped no one would believe that antipathy of
the people of Ireland to the Established Church in
that country proceeded from hostility to the tenets
of Protestantism. If it were not a symbol of as-
cendancy it would be no more interfered with than
Presbyterianism. Indeed, if the Roman Catholics
were offered the ecclesiastical revenues of the country
for the support of their own religion, they would
reject the proposal. They believed in tha adequacy
of the voluntary system, and they were convinced
that it was the only sure foundation on which
reli-
gious equality and the toleration of differences could
rest in these realms. Last, though not least, they
saw that the voluntary system commanded the ap-
proval of that vast majority of Englishmen with
whom on every possible occasion the Catholics of
Ireland were anxious to harmonize. He was certain
the Established Church could not long retain its pre-
sent position in defiance of the progress of an en-
lightened public opinion. As he had said before
good legislation might remove many of the causes of
Irish disaffection, but it could never be done until
there was a thoroughly reformed Parliament. (Loud
cheers, in the midst of which the hon. gentleman
resumed his seat, having spoken nearly an hour.)
Mr. KEEVET, of Dublin, expressed his conviction
that Irishmen were basely, badly, and treacherously
governed.

Mr. DARLING, of Dublin, followed, and declared
that the people of Ireland were determined, under
the presidency of the Chieftain of the Glens, to un-
furl the banner of Reform, and show their tyrants
that they were ready to unite with the people of
England and Scotland in obtaining their rights and
defending them at all hazards.

Mr. WHITWORTH, M.P., moved, and Mr. ROE-
BECK seconded, a vote of thanks to Mr. Bright,
which was passed with great enthusiasm.
Mr. BRIGHT, in acknowledging the compliment,
said he was quite sure that every one who had at-
tended the meeting had been amply compensated by
the remarks which had been made respecting Ireland
for the time and trouble he had expended. (Cheers.)
He entertained the most confident hopes that the
result of the meeting would be beneficial both for
England and Ireland, and that it would last for
many a day, probably after all present were for-
gotten. He thanked the meeting for their kindness,
and must say he had never presided over a nobler
meeting called for a nobler purpose. (Loud cheers.)
The proceedings then terminated.