The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-21 00:00:00

THE -7.- SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY

Wonder at the event, that eminent statesmen have ac-
tually dined together. (Cheers and laughter.)
o I am
yory glad to hear that men engaged in the strife f poli-
tic" can dine together without personal hostility. I will
47 nothing of the viands eaten, or of the beverage drunk
tool the "loving cup" that went round. One of the
oldest and best of beverages was that " nepenthe, drink
of soverayne grace, devised by gods ;" but that drink
was given to the wise, who had arrived at that time
of life when they were prepared to take their
place. with heroes in another sphere. (Cheers and laugh-
ter.) It could not be that liquor which filled the flowing
gup, for these ancient and wise statesmen were deter-
mined to cling to this world, and mix in all the conten-
tion and turmoil of politics. (Cheers.) Now, I ask, is
the house prepared to overthrow the Government on this

question, w- bich the right hop mover had placed before
it in ambiguous tismß, and is it ready to plange the
country into the turmoil of a general election, at a mo-
ment when the people are only just slowly recovering
Iron the effects of the moat tremendous commercial

panics ? (Cheers.) Is the house willing to delay all
legislation and all discussion on reform till next year ?
(Hear, hear.) Above all, is the house willing to take
upon itself the responsibility which will attach to it if it
avows the policy of the proclamation ? lam terrified for
the future of India when I hear of the indiscriminate
slaughter which is going on there. A gentleman—l
believe a missionary, who has written a series of very
able letters to a most respectable weekly newspaper in
London, says it is estimated that more than 10,000 per-
eons have been put to death in India by hanging alone.
(Hear, hear.) When you find that such opinions are ex-
pressed in India as I have to-day extracted from a Cal-
cutta newspaper, are you willing to do anything that
can by possibility be suspected as confirming a policy of
that description ? I have extracted this paragraph from
the Englishman, a Calcutta newspaper, which, speaking
of the men of the disarmed regiments, who probably
number from 20,C00 to 30,000, says—
" There is no necessity to bring every &pay to a court-
dial and convict him of mutinous intentions before
putting him down as guilty. We do not advocate extreme
or harsh measures. nor are we of those who would drench
the land with blood, but We have no hesitation in saying
that were the Government to order the execution of all
these Sepoys they would be legally and morally justified in
doing so. There would be no injustice done.'
I ask the house to remember that these men had com-
mitted no offence—that their arms had been taken
from them—that they were merely suspected of being
likely to be tempted to commit offences—and yet an
Englishman, one of our countrymen, writing in a public
newspaper in Calcutta, publishes such atrocious senti-
ments as those I have just read ! I believe that the whole
of India is trembling with volcanic fires, and that we
should be guilty of the utmost recklessness, and of a
great crime against the monarchy of England, if we were
to do anything which would be an avowal of the procla-
metion that has been issued. (Cheers,) lam asked on
this question to overturn her Majesty's Government.
Why, the policy adopted by the Government on this
subject is the policy that was cheered by hon. members
on this side when it was first announced. (Hear.) It is a
policy of mercy and conciliation. False—may I not say ?
—or blundering leaders of this party would induce us,
contrary to all our associations and all our principles, to
support an opposite policy. I am willing to avow that I
am in favour of justice and conciliation—of the law of
justice and of kindness. Justice and mercy are the
supreme attributes of the perfection which we call Deity,
but all men everywhere comprehend them. There is no
speech nor language in which their voice is not heard,
and they could not have been vainly exercised with re-
gard to the docile and intelligent millions of India. You
bad the choice. You have tried the sword. It has broken
—it now rests broken in your grasp, and yon stand hum-
bled and rebuked. (Some cries of " Oh, oh," from the
Opposition.) You stand humbled and rebuked before the
eyes of civilised Europe. (Renewed cries of " Oh," and
cheers.) You may have another chance. You may, by
possibility, have another opportunity cf governing
India. If you have, I beseech you t ) make the best use
of it. Do not let us pursue such a policy as many men in
India, and some in England, have advocate I, but which
hereafter you will have to regret, which can end only, as
I believe, in something approaching to the ruin of this
country, and which must, if it be persisted in, involve
our name and nation in everlasting disgrace. (Lsad and
prolonged cheering.)
Mr. COLLIER said that all sitting on that side of
the house fully recognised the great powers of the boo.
member for Birmingham (Mr. Bright), and ;were willing
to cooperate with him on certain questions. However,
upon certain subjects relating to peace and war they
were completely at issue with the hon. gentleman. For
example, had they followed the policy advocated by the
hon. member with regard to China, it would have been
impossible for England to have held her settlement in
that country. (Hear' hear.) Had they again adopted
his views with regard to the war with Russia, their
policy must have ended in nothing but humiiiatton and
disgrace to the country. (Cheers.) Indeed, upon more
than one occasion the question had been raised, did not
the hon. member fer Birmingham seem to regard more
the honour of his country's enemies than hie country's ?
(Hear, hoar) Now, with reference to the issue raised
by the right hon. member for Oxford, he must say, in
the first place, that the whole argument grounded upon
the keeping back of the latter received by the bon, gen-
tleman the member for Neatharopton ( Vlr V. Smith)
was given up when it was announced by Lord Eden-
borough in another place, and by the right hon. gentle-
man the Chancellor of the Exchequer in that house, that
the proclamation of Lerd Canning, announcing a gene-
ral confiscation, required no explanation, as it was inde-
fensible aed he ventured to affirm that the despatch
sent out in answer to the proclamation was one of the
most disgraceful documents that ever issued from a
Minister of the Crown. The hon. member f Birmin,g-
ham had spoken a good deal upon the consequ. aces cf
overthrowing the present Government. Now he (Mr.
Collier) was well aware that there were a great many
sitting on that side of the house who wished the Fresent
Government to stand, but then the problem of ho v to
enable a Government to stand was a problem more diffi-
cult cf solution than that solved by Columbus. (Hear,
hear.) During the short time they had been in office,
the Government had committed sot one but a series of
blunders, and it was apparent, therefore,"taat it was no
longer sae to entrust the administration cf the affairs
of the country into such hands. (Hear, hear.)
Sir W. FRASER said that the noble viscount op-
posite, the member for the West Riding (Viscount
Goderich) hied in his most indiscriminating manner con-
founded the case of the mutinous sepoys and the native
inhabitants of Oude. The former of these had undoubt-
edly been. guilty of an enormous mime, and he would
aucordingly show them no mercy, but towards the latter
he would deal out a very dlferent order of justice. • He
believed that a great deal of time had been lost in dis-
cussing the meaning of the tern confiesation. Nov he
should not reopen any question upon that point, as he
thought gentlemen in England would pretty clearly un-
derstood what was meant if any were told their estates
were all to be confiscated. (Hear, and a laugh.) He
could not help thinking, too, that the fire directed from
that side of the house against the late right honourable
President of the India Board had been rather too in-
cessant and too concentrated. In that case it seemed to
him the doc:rine as to subor iinate responsibility had
been overlooked. On the other hand, it would have been
more becoming in the noble lord the member for Tiver-
ton if be had come earlier to the rescue of his subor-
dinate. (Hear.)
Captain VIVIAN had listened with great regret to
the speech of the hon. member for Birmingham (Mr,
Bright), for be could not conceives ow one, whose taesets
were so universally acknowledged, could have conde-
scended to such littleness in Lie argument. Ile had
tried to find in that speech something appertaining to
the merits of the question before them, tut so far as he
could gather it was entirely confined to attacks up:;n
those who occupied the front rsuks of the opposi-
tion benches. Ile, for one, shnual give his vote, when
it Game to a vote, on the merits of the care, es he had
no wish as to who should occupy the Ministerial bunch.
But he was called upon to say whether Governeset t
had rightly issued the despatch. They had been
accused 9f shirking the question of the proclamation,
but he bad no doubt that when the proclamation
came before them there would be many on that
Bide of the house ready to uphold Lard Cunning's
policy. The word cohfiscatioa had been wholly
misinterpreted, and any one who unlerstcod the
state of the country, or who bad read General Sleaman's
book, would know that the proclamation did not tench
the real cultivation of the soil. The talmkdars and z :m-
-inders of Oude were a set of robbersand rascals who took
possession of the land, and wanting to get a title to it,
called themselves by those names. He would not go into
the question of the annexation of OoL', though to be•
lieved it was forced on us; but when it was annexed we
found there two classes, the wo:kera and robbers—the
bees and the wasps. Lord Canning had resolved to exter-
minate the wasps, and in doing so was stung by a hornet.
(Hear.) When the papers which had been received that
day were before them, they might better judge of that
question, but in the publication of the deipatch they had
committed, if not a dereliction cf duty, at least an indis-
cretion, which was sufficient to deprive them of the con-
fidence of the house.
Mr. K. SEYMER said they had been talking of India
but thinking of something else, viz., of the question
whether the occupants of the Treasury benches could be
sent over to the other side of the house. He was sorry
the Indian question had been made a ground of patty at-
tack, but they would find the noble lord (Palmerston) too
old to mend. (A laugh) What he was in Feb. he would
be to the end of the chapter. The other side had been
pressing legislation for India during the present a onion,
and now these Government days had been occupied in
this discussion; and it was very probable that would pre-
vent any legislation on the subject of India this se-sion
a result which he should cot much regret. If there were
any independent Liberal members in the house, he would
*ask them if they in their hearts approved of the policy
of confiscation. If not, let them place themselves in the
Position of the Government and ask them what else they
could honestly have done ? He knew that two red le
tired;p(Putaltthneeirii and Russell) thought that whenever
made. heads together a powerful party could be
It" theLzble lord (Palmerston) had lost the con.•
flames of the
regain it ? (Hear, hear.
party, and what had he done to
again they svoold not look If these noble lords came in
k far beyond the peerage and the
bow window at BroolcZeo.
of what
They would then,
have a reinauguration
policy
yhat was called a spirited
foreign policy, viz., the
of
tbi wor.!s and Email
deeds. (A laugh.) When the no*
ain office joined
in censuring what they consideredPary
unprovoked at-
tack on Canton, the noble lord (Palmearat
out guilty as accomplices of the barbarisms madecommitted tomhueabmt
by the Chinese in reprisal for that attack, and
he would now throw upon them the blame of the
sacre of Cawnpore. (Hear, hear.) But the electors evens
of Tiverton would not again be misled. By the time
they went to the country it would no longer he a
question of whether the despatch ought to have been
published, but it would be a question involving financial

expenditure to an Extent of which bor. members had very
little idea. (Hear.) The present Government came in
not on their own motion, but in consequence of the want
of attachment of the Liberal members to their own
leader. (Hear.) They came into a legacy of difficulties.
(Hear) They had arranged the diplomatic difficulty
maintaining the alliance, which was firmer than ever ;
they had settled the Cagliari question favourably ; they I
had got over the financial difficulty in a budget—which
had given the greatest amount of satisfaction, and they
had pledged themselves to an India Bill which he
thought injudicious, for he did not think any Govern-
ment would carry an India Bill this session. (Hear.)
He did not think the Conservative party were blind to
the signs of the times, or deaf to the voice of public opi-
nion—(hear, hear)—and he believed they were prepared
to go steadily forward in a course of political and social
reform. (Hear, hear.) He asked them, not for the sake
of Government, but for their own characters as indepen-
dent members, to give them the opportunity.
Sir A. ELTON said the despatch was bad in temper
and in tone, and in many respects indiscreet, but if the
general effect was just, it would be monstrous to throw
the country into confusion because it was not polite.
Honourable members talked of confiscation as if it was
some pleasant process, like shampooing or some other
Eastern luxury, but they would regard it very differently
if their own lands were so taken from them. Legal gen-
tlemen often took great liberties with each other, and in
this debate one had attributed dishonesty to &nether.
He supposed lawyers were used to it. In reference to
the mercy of Lord Canning, all the proclamation pro-
mised to those who submitted was "life and honour,"
and for the rest they were to throw themselves on the
clemency of the Government. That was not very en-
couraging. As for politeness and courtesy, if a robber
held a pistol to his head, be would knock his arm aside,
perhaps with some violence. Would the right hon.
member prosecute him for assaulting the robber ? If he
dragged a drowning man from the water somewhat
roughly, would he have an action against him fur tear-
ing his coat ? (Rear.) It was said that Lord Canning's
feelings ought to be considered ; but they would be suffi-
ciently so by the amendment. Lord Ellenborough was
humbled at the feet of Lord Canning, and politically
ruined. Lord Canning and his friends, real or political,
ought to be satisfied with that, and not to pursue the
Government with a vindictiveness to which party ought
to be a stranger. It was said the despatch would weaken
the hands of Lord Canning, but these miserable party
squabbles would weaken the character of this house and
drag its honour and dignity in the dust. (Hear.) Go-
vernment had endeavoured to do what was right and
just in a manner which was open to censure, bat as the
thing itself was right, he should support them. He then
quoted an article from the Friend of Indict to the effect
that the proclamation would hold us up to the ridicule
of the natives as weak and rapacious ; for we gave the
lives we had no power to take, and took the lands they
could no longer defend. (Hear, hear.) The retainers,
he contended, would go with the chiefs and would not
lay down their arms, so that the confiscation would in-
clude all the population. The vote of this house, it
adverse to the Government, would create a panic
amongst those who were ready to submit, and would
not drive them to take up arms again. He could
not understand how the despatch could encourage
the rebels. It opened to doors of mercy. But to tell
them that if they submitted they should retain their
rights would not encourage them to hold our. He be-
lieved that hon. gentlemen on the Opposition benches
did not think that they were going to stay there so long,
and now showed an indecent haste to recross the house.
Lord BURY said the hon. member for Dorset had
asked what they hoped to gain by the motion. He could
answer the question very distinctly. They hoped to turn
hon. gentlemen opposite out of office. (Cheers and
laughter.) In his opinion the despatch would paralyse
the hands of the Governor General. It was ungenerous
to censure the conduct of the Governor-General before
they had received his explanations. Very likely the mail
now due would bring a statement of the reasons that in-
duced the Governor-General to issue that proclamation.
He thought that some of those who had spoken on the
other side had tried to lead them astray on this ques-
tion. Lord Canning had nothing to do with the annexe-
tien of Oude. He found it a part of British India, and
his duty was to maintain it as such. Deere was a great
difference between the censure passed on Lord Auckland
for his treaty with Oude and that contained in the de-
spatch in question. In his opinion the proclamation would
do less harm in Media than the despatch. In that de-
spatch Lord Canning had been addressed as if he were
a fool. (Hear.) Secving his country as he had done,
Lord Canning had every right to expect that he would
be addressed in different terms. Hos. members opposite
were going to support the amendment of the hon. mem-
ber for Swansea, which recoenised Lord Canning's ser-
vices, although they had ohj acted to including Lord
Canning's name in the vote of thanks lately given by
Parliament. The noble lord the meciberfor King's Ly::n
had said that this was a questioucf right against wrung.
The noble lord did not d-aw his conclusion, bet the noble
lord the member for the West Riding had very naturally
asked if it was intended to give back Oude to its native
King. The hon. baronet the member for Tam worth hail
talked of a dissolution in case of a defeat of the govern-
ment, and coupling that with the statement of the noble
lord the member for King's Lytle, be bad no doubt the
cry of the government would be rieht against wrong.
But if that was meant Lir anything more than clap-trale)
they ought to give back Oode to the natives. (Hear.)
Mr. GILPIN said he believed the noble lord the mem-
ber far Norwich (Lor.l Bury) had never spoken truer
words than when he told them that what he and his
friends wanted in bringing forward this motion was to
turn out her Majesty's ministers. (Hear, hear.) But
passing to a subject de lees personal character he should
ob,erve that ha could not adopt the view taken of the
question tiiea before the house by the supporters of the
motion, when they contended that hon. members ought
carefu ly to abAain from pronouncing any judgment on
that proclamation, while they were to express a decided
opinion with respect to the d ,seatele to which the pro-
clamation had given rise. They were told that they
could n )t understand what was meant by the proclama-
tion. But the document appeared to be well understood
in India ; and as far as he could judge it had ben gene-
rally condemned by the press of that country. The
Hurkara stated that " the wisdom of the Mi.'3,111; had
been questioned on the ground of its sweeping severity."
According to the Calcutta Phcenix, " the temper of the
people of India had never been so excited against acy
former rulers as it was at present against the British ;"
and the Friend of Indict contained the fell swing pas-
sage :—" That unhappy document makes every man in
India cur declared enemy. The British government will
be held up a; weak and rapacious—weak in offering to
save lives which they could not take, and capacious in
seizing estates to which they had no right." He ( \Jr.
Gilpin) had hitherto been an admirer of Cm just and
temperate policy pursued by Lord Can clog in liadia arid
ha could only suppose that the noble lord bad been in-
duced to adopt that measure of confiscation under a pres-
sure put upon him by the English party in that country,
which had before raised a howl of indignation against
his display of wisdom and moderation. lie (Sir. Gilpin)
believed that the present despatch would be ca.lcu'ated
to strengthen hi; hands, and to enable him to return to
the c-curse originally dictated by his own better judg-
ment. If an announcement of confiscatioa really meamt
what it professed to mean, he (Mir. Gilpie) could not kelp
regarding the proclamation as one of the most immoral
public documents that had ever been written. But one
of the arguments employed by the noble lord the mem-
ber for London in support of the motion, went very
nearly to this—that we never could consider any of our
public servants to have been in the wrong. (Hear.)
No .v, fur his part, he should say that he believed that
was a most dangerous doctrine. The hon. and learned
gentleman fur Plymouth (Mr. Colliec) had stated that
evening that on every question of f )reign policy the hoe.
geutlemen the member for Birmingham (Ur. Bright)
was always to be seen ranged ou the side of the enemies
of England. But the hon. and learned gentleman might
well congratulate liioaselF if he should find at the close of
his career that he had done for his country a titee of the
good which had teen done by the hon member for Bir-
wiegeern. Ho fejt persuaded that in voting against the
motion ve should be voting in favour of the principles of
justice and of humanity. He hal hear!. a good deal
sail in the course of the discussion w.th regard to the
fact that the contents of a certain letter fro a Lord Can-
ning had not been communicated by the right hon. gee-
tlercan the member for Northampton to the noble earl
who had succeeded him in the office of the President of
the Board of Control. It certainly seemed to him that
too much had been mode of that c room twice. He be-
lieved that hon. gentlemen opposite had truth and jus-
tice on their side upon thatocciesien, and, in his opinion
they would do well to take their sand on these prin-
ciples, and to ahe'ain from dwelling on mere personal
considerations. He was lad so think that that was an
attempt to raise the somewhat questionable benner of
the noble lord the member for Tiverton. (Hear.) Ile
ou
ifhl
calledtitiehh upon
understood
barn-r—
-oieadduent tpe_oca t the arms of Bedford e ere to be quartered
rnr—da
el(
rally
yt ue
ra
orm) members
mabinted. r
s (du)
independenteesaerr.ved t memberstuhta hte
ti saidti title,
werethe
y that
charmer would charm in vain, unless they saw mor'e o f
benefit than he could see to the liberal
cause from
y
contemplated change of ministry. A short time ago
there had been held a large
meeting of "independent
members," and he had then 'upposed, itthis simplicity,
that they were going
ghbcve an independent party.
But one of the eldest living politicians, had, with deeper'
first
res eafretrye na e
wellt athat
discrimination, said to
s
expectation, "You' do not knnlow
tir)ael for them
do. They will fall into the very
nch."
by the late occupants of the Treasury
)
The fact was that the trap was scaricnioellioyoawta
eidd,i people,cthtne i pitfallwthteh ne
one
es
partnot coofvtehreedLoivbeerratloptahreveyheasdef
new opposition whipper-in. (Hear, and laughter.) 119
should vote against that motion on its intiiasic merits ;
and he should vote against it still more heartily on
account of what he believed to be its real and not its
declared spiel's—the removal of the ministry, acid the
transference to their places of a number of gentlemen
who were at present in opposition. He was convinced
that such a charge would not promote the interests of
the great Liberal party throughout the country, and he
should therefore offer an uncompromising resistance to
a motion which was calculated as he Leleeved, to lead to
that result. (Hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he should be prepared to
rest his vote on the able and comprehensive speech which
had been deliv, red that evening by the noble lord the
member for the West Riding (Lord Goderich) ; but ho
did not wish to give a silent vote on that extremely im-
portant question. Hen. gentlemen had entered in the
course cf that discussion into mere party allusions ; bu t
he should have thought party considerations must sink
into utter insignificance in presence of the great interests
to which their attention was then directed. He had
alwaysn been a ptdey man, and he did not pretend to
chweeakhyne ou_vi thatt h
anything
knowledge,had pafi
operneedei I
hise c ti
judgment
which.
Butndghtif
of laic own feelings, Le would give in

support of that motion as conscientious a vote as he had
ever given in his life. (Hear.) He did not believe that
frequent changes of ministry were of advantage to this
country ; he was of an entirely different opinion ; and
he honestly declared that be should have heartily re-
joiced if the conduct of horn gentlemen opposite bad
been so prudent as to have enabled the house to continue
them for a considerable period their present tenure of
office. (Hear, and a cry of oh.) But he would leave
those personal considerations, and he would pass to an
inquiry into the general merits of that question. He
believed that her Majesty's Government were deeply
censurable for the present state of Indian affairs. They
bad exhibited to the world the unfortunate spectacle cf
Indian Government at home differing in opinion upon a
most important point of policy from the local govern-
ment in India. Had any one, he would ask, ever before
seen members of an administration coming down to the
house and reading extracts from newspapers, or detail-
ing scraps of conversation held with persons who bad
lat:ly returned from India, for the purpose of casting
discredit on the decision at which the Governor-General
had arrived ? (Hear, hear) He did not deny the right
of the Government to express their condemnation of any
act of Lord Canning of which they might have disap-
proved ; but he said that they ought not to have dis-
ele,rged that duty in a tone needlessly bitter and offen-
sive. He had not heard any one attempt to justify the
terms tmployed in the despatch towards Lord Canning,
and he could not believe that that portion of the docu-
ment had been read to the Cabinet before it had been
sent out to India. He said that was the first great error
committed by her Majesty's Government. But the
course they bad pursued had, further, led to the un-
happy result of destroying the harmony of opinion and
unity of action which it was so desirable should prevail
between them and the Court of Directors. The very day
after the publication of the despatch the directors had
met, and had determined, to their own infinite honour,
that the mail which took out that document should also
take out the expression of their approval of Lord Con-
ning's policy. Since the last occasion upon which they
had met they bad heard with surprise that her Majesty's
Government had stated their intention to support the
proposition of the hon. member for Swansea. He (Mr.
L.) was utterly at a loss to reconcile that determination
upon any principle of consistency. He would not then
enter into the question as to whether Lord Canning's
proclamation was, in its terms, politic or impolitic. He,
however, thought that the intention of the noble lord no
member in that house could for a moment doubt. It
was a policy of clemency rather than one of harshness
and cruelty, as some honourable members had the hardi-
hood to attribute to him. The very circumstance of Lord
Canning having no party connection with the present
government ought, in his mind, to have made them
much more delicate in doing anything that could in the
deal degree disparage his authority as Governor-Ge-
neral. He (Mr. L.) could not acquit the government of
having committed some grave errors is those most
im-
'portant and delicate transactions ; and, that being the
case, be would certainly support the motion of his right
hon. friend the member for the city of Oxford.
Sir J. GRAHAM.— Sir, for some time past I have
abstained from trespassing on your indulgence, for my
shattered nerves and drooping spirits dissuaded me from
taking part in angry contention, and I would gladly
avoid expressing my opinion on this occasion it my sense
of public duty had not persuaded me that I cannot
avoid explaining, as far as I am able, the reasons which
lead me to the conclusion at which I have arrived. If I
may be permitted to refer for one moment to a subject
so insignificant as myself, I wish to state that it is by
the courtesy of hon. gentlemen that I occupy a seat on
this (the Ministerial) side of the house, although I am
no adherent of her Majesty's Government. By no en-
gagement, express or implied, am I their supporter. -On
the contrary, my sympathies and opinions are with the
Liberal party sitting on the opposite side of the house
(hear, hear), and from a recent kind communication I
have resumed those habits of friendly intercourse and
confidential communication with my noble friend the
member for the city of London which formerly existed
bat rseen us. (" Speak up.") It is with pain, therefore
that on the present occasion, after much deliberation, I
have arrived at the conclusion that it is not possible for
me to give my support to the:motion of my right hon.
friend the member for Oxford. (Loud cheers.) It has
not been my good fortune to be in office contempora-
neously with Lord Canning. I do not know him as in-
timately as many of those with whom I have long acted,
but I am bound to say that, considering the circum-
stances of extraordinary difficulty in which he has
been placed since his appointment to the Governor-Ge-
neralship of India, I have, up to the present time, re-
garded his conduct with unfeigned admiration. I
think, as was well said by noble friend the member fur
the city of London, that while others trembled, his
firmness remained unshaken ; while the passions of
almost all those around him were greatly excited, his
calmness remained undisturbed, and he refused to shed
ienocent blood. (dear, hear.) I think, therefore, the
greatest praise is due to Lord Canning for his conduct
up to the present moment. This motion is said to be
actively promoted by most intimate f•iends of Lord Can •
ning. Lord Canning was introduced into public life by
my noble friend Lord Aberdeen. Lord Aberdeen is no
f. irwea her or lukewarm friend. (Cheers.) He regards
Lord Canning with parental affection ; and while he
th ught that with reference to the present state of 'bi-,
transaction anything was duo to the honour of I.,rsi
Canning or to his administration of Indian effoirs, be
was quite willing to concur in a vote censuring the
conduct of the Executive Government. But from the
tine that Lard Ellenborough withdrew from the Mini-
i.istration, declaring himself the author, as might well
be presumed, of the despatch censuring the proclama-
tion, I am authorised to state, oa the part of my noble
friend, that he felt that all that was doe to the honour
of Lord Canning had been achieved—(cheer,)—all that
ho thought nece sary for the vindication of Lord Can-
nicg's administration of affairs had been accomplished
—(renewed cheere)—aud when pressed by a friend of
Lord Canning—an old colleague and intimate friend of
his own—to concur in the vote of censure in the other
house, my noble friend L.rd Aberdeen positively refused,
and, to use his plain and emphatic language, he declared
that he seas not prepared to take part iu a faction fight
(Cheers again renewed.) I wish, with permission,
frankly to state that my first and strong impression on
reading the proclamation woe, that it was an impolitic
one. (dear, hear.) I am also bound to state that the
publication of the despatch censuring that proclamation
n the terms which were implied did appear t o me a
harsh and u jeitifiable proceeding. (Hear, hear.) It
does so happen than when it was announced that
toe despatch commenting on the proclamation
woul I be laid before the house, and when ie was
also announced that that despatch censure] the policy
indicated in that pro&arnation in every respect, Isail to
my right hon. friend the member for the University of
Oxf.oal, who was sitting near me, "I fear that that cics-
patch, CO reprellencli.,g the proclamation, will contain a
censure upon the annexation of Oude ;" and I added,
"if so, I think it aoald be most impolitic and inex-
pedient." (Cheers.) That paragraph which comments
on the annexation is even less prudent than I had
anticipated. I must say with great regret that it lI the
paragraphs relating to that subject that I am most die-
posed to reprehend. Let me recall the recollection of
the House to the circumstances that attended the publi-
cation of the despatch. I believe implici ly the state-
ment made in this House by my hen. friend the Secre-
t try of tlre Board rf Control. Tnat waternent was, that
on the morning of the day on which the hon. member
for Birmingham asked in his place a gat anion with re-
spect to the proclamation ho himself had wcenfidential
communication with Lord Eilenborongh. The hon.
Secretary to the Board of Control tail to Lord Ellen-
borough, "If I am rooked a question with regard to the
proclamation which has appeared in the newspapers
what am I to say ?' L;rd Ellenborou,h, without con-
sulting any of his colleagues, at once and oa the spot
told the Secretary to the Beard of Control to promise
that a cspv of the despatch commenting upon it shoul I
be laid before the House. When that promise was made
it was clear that the publication would take place the
following morning. Toe hon. member for Mrmiogbara
pressed for farther information. He asked at once what
was the effect of the despatch, and the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, racing itostantly and without prenle.litation
to answer that question, said that the despatch die•
approved the policy indicated in the proclemati n iu
every sense. The sight hon. gentleman the Caacced
of the Exchequer will excuse me for saying that
I think that answer so hastily and uopremeditat;dly
given was an indiscretion—(bear, bear) —but at
the close of a very long public aed official
life I cannot forget t'sat I have committed many
indiscr,tions myself—(laughter)—and I am not prspared
to visit wi h severe censure what I cannot believe, an]
do not believe, was anything more than an indiscretion.
(Cheers.) The right hen gentleman knew that on the
following morning this despatch would be published,
a,nd,llAnxions at once to satisfy the house as to the con-
tents of that despatch, he anticipated the readi g of it
by every menaber of the house in the course of a few
hours by stating what was its nature. Tea', as it ap-
pears to ins, is the front of the offendir.g of a. .y other
member of the Administration, excepting Lord Eden-
borough himself. Wel!, what took place in consequence
of this ? Within three days of this publnatioo, for
which Lord Ellenhorough was a'oee rosponsible—no
other member of the Cabinet having consented when he
gave the order to the S.,cretary of the Board of C;ntrel
to publish tee despatch—yielding to the force of public
opinion in the two Houses of Parliament, which was
very uneerivocally I xoressed, the noble lord, not,
ashamed of what he had done, th:nking, on the c •ntrar,
that he had honourably fulfided what his sense Of
public duty prescribed, but ac xious to roheve his col-
leagues from all embarrassment, and tiziili,tg to take
upon himself the whale responeiblity which redly at-
ttpgiNahraicea: aijetreenoßdbt oyt it) 0
concurrence,uwl
gi m,
til which
These,t t
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edaprr
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enfnrdioaaTE act performed
atohafe
e it
yth :er
t.rchia:
swoitfh
LUert
c. The
hold to be atoned f or. 'by, the resignation of Lord
do;
ecs:
dt nuuscd
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holly sate fi d
b:7:llatuitiehincke
o.t:ethehenour of Lord Canning
Di-
rectors to which na;yr,siguAton, e.)upwa with the vote
cc ad right
CourtAhnodpjna.a"sflorifeelria"dtoeoshlso tj uh(setlADai-:
ministration, I I)9'.ie.ve it woul 1 be pushing the
()hi tr
d err aP:ounwps:lb late
power fir
hre ridiculous ul ot
bdioncttrithoeano:mtr.ceorzal
uhse to Ca
-
tend it to their ex. rtion from
a
colleague without their cognizance or cnonaseetndtonae.
' b
dy n
a ar ce.et of which act that c Teaguss has quitte'd office.
(Cher I no w come, Sir, with your permission, ghoul;
to examine the substance c f the proclamation. And
the caline.-t an I int st dispassionate coneideration I have
been able to give this matter has led-me to the conclusion

that my first impression was right—viz., that the sub-
stance of this proclamation is impolitic. (Hear, hear.)
I beg the house to remember the circumstances under
which the proclamation was considered in the early part
of April by her Majesty's present advisers. The procla-
mation is decidedly at variance with an instruction sent
out by the Cabinet on the 24th March with respect to
the policy to be pursued on the capture of Lucknow. The
passage has been read before, but still it seems to me
so important that if it is not wearying the house I shall
quote it again. (Hear, hear.) Here, then, are the terms
of the instruction given to Lord Canning by the Cabinet
at the date I have named
To us it appears that whenever open resistance shall
have ceased it would be prudent in awarding punishment
rather to follow the practice which prevails after the con-
quest of a country which has defended itself to the last by
desperate war, than that which may perhaps be lawfully
adopted after the suppression of mutiny and rebellion—such
acts always being exempted from forgiveness or mitigation
of punishment as have exceeded the license of legitimate
hostilities."
The despatch next recommends a general disarmament and
as far as possible a general amnesty, and then goes on to
declare that—

" In every amnestied district the ordinary administration
of the law should as soon as possible be restored."

Now, try the proclamation as the Cabinet tried it early in
April, by the terms of that instruction, and I think you will
see that it is diametrically opposed to the spirit of that
instruction. (Cheers.) Arriving thus unexpectedly, and
violating an instruction already given by her Majesty's
Ministers, you must also bear in mind what were the
peeuliar circumstances attending this proclamation. No
covering letter giving any official explanation of it ; all
private communications with reference to it, from no fault
of Lord Canning—who was unaware of the ehange of
Ministry—addressed to their political opponents, and from
some accident or misconception, on which I should be
most sorry to dwell, no portion of those representations to
the late Government bearing upon the subject were made
known to her Majesty'e present advisers. Remember,
likewise, that the mitigating passage in the proclamation,
which has been advisedly added in consequence of the re-
presentations made to Lord Canning in India, was unknown
to the Cabinet when their despatch was written. (Hear.)
Recollect, moreover, that the Cabinet consented to that
despatch being transmitted in a particular form which
exists only with respect to despatches sent to India—viz..
through the Secret Committee of the Court of Directors.
They believed that secrecy would be religiously- observed ;
and with all my objections to the passages relating to
Oude, with which I shall deal presently, I am not of opi-
nion that, under the seal of secrecy, any of the topics
touched upon in that despatch as a warning to the Governor-
General in regard to the danger of the proclamation were
improperly introduced. (Hear.) But is this the whole?
By no means. At the same time that the proclamation
reached the Government information of a very painful—
at all events of a very anxious kind—came to hand. It is
vain to dissemble it; a very serious difference has arisen
between the civil and military authorities in India.
(Hear.) It is quite plain that the entire scheme of the
military campaign against the judgment of the Com-
mander-in-Chief, by the over-ruling authority of
the Governor-General, has no`, only been changed, but in-
verted. (Hear.) After that most splendid operation which
has warmed the heart and gratified the feelings of every
Englishman, when by a bold advance with a handful of
men Sir Colin Campbell at infinite risk relieved the belea-
guered garrison of Lucknow, the Commander-in-Chief's
own plan was not then to march upon the capital of Oude,
, but, leaving that capital as the centre open at a future period
to be attacked by his united force, rather to deal first with
the insurrection in the extremities, to tread out the mutiny
at its furthermost points, and afterwards to return to
Lucknow with its concentrated strength. (Hear.) The
Governor-General, however, from the purest motives, but
from political reasons, interfered with the strategy of the
Commander-in Chief,
and called upon him instantly to at-
tack Lucknow, and thus to depart from his preconcerted
movements. Now, it is neces ary to be just. This intelli-
gence reached the Cabinet simultaneously with the procla-.
illation. There is a division between the civil and military
authorities; the Governor-Ganeral, acting on his own re-
sponsibility, with a high hand directs the military opera-
tions; and he issues this proclamation, or avows his inten-
tion to issue it. We know already—to-morrow we shall
know more accurately—upon the official information of the
Secretary of the Board of Control, that Sir James Outran
protested strongly asaiust this proclamation. (Cheers.)
Who is Sir James Outran ? Ile was the civil commis-
sioner of Oade in 15.5) under Lord Dalhousie. He had
the most intimate kilo sledge at that period of the state of
feeling in that country, as well as of its socisl condition.
More than that, topping his civil capacity, during a later
period when the military difficulties became great, he toted
as second in command, and was himself exposed to all the
dangers of that groat centre of the revolt. He could, there-
fore, best appreciate what were the sentiments of the tended
proprietors of Oude—he bust understood by experience
what had been their conduct . Yet knowing them well, bath
by his earlier civil and later military experience, ho in the
strongest and aeost decided manner objected to this pro-
clamation, and pressed upon the Governor-General the po-
licy of abandoning it. (Cheers.) Ss much for the view taken
by Sir J. Outa am. Well, who is the next highest military
authority ? Sir John Lawrence. (Hear.) We have all heard
from the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and are all
aware that Sir J. Lawrence prersed for a discriminating
amnesty indeed, and also objected to this procianaation.
(Cheers.) The statements I now make rest upon official
authority. I don't like to mention my own sources of
information, but I have reason to knew that General Mans-
field, the chief of Sir Colin Campbell's Staff, has likewise
expressed in strong terms his doubts with respect to the
policy of this proclamation. (Cheers.) We have reason,
also, to believe—it has indeed been uuecittivoellly stated by
the First Lord of the Admiralty—that General Franks, who
has just returned fr=sh from most gallant and distinguished
military service rendered at Lucknow, declares his indivi-
dual opinion that this proclamation is an unfortunate
step. (Cheers.) So much, then, for the conflict of autho-
rity as to the expediency of the proclamation we are now
discussing ; so much as to the weight of evidence that
would lead us to pause before we give an opinion directly
or indirectly sanctioning this proclamation and condemn-
ing the caution of the Government in taking measures
with reference to its revision and limitation. Now,
what is the correct interpretation of this proclamation?
Wo have heard a groat deal of argument meant to prove
that confiscation does not mean confiscation—(!rear,
hp's) —that proprietary rights in the soil of Indian pro-
vincesdees Lot imply ownership of the land. (Hear, hear.)
N i ow, n England we underetaud English, in India all men
may not ; but, although those who issued the proclamation
might not exactly have understood the exact purport of
its terms, what is most important for us to consider is,
how will the people who road it understand it ? (Hear,
hear.) The hon, member for Northampton has read to us
extracts from the Indian newspapers, bat really there is
no newspaper which has arrived from Innis by the last
mail which does not give to the term " proprietary rights"
as broad a construction as has been given to is by any gen-
tleman who has a dressed this house. (Hear.) Now, sir,
what is the object of this proclamation? (Hear.) It is
supposed by sonic persona to be a gre :stroke of p
and it certainly has the _characteristic of novelty. (!tear,
hear.) It is, I must say, an tw course of proceeding. No
doubt, if what was sought to be effected could be offeeted
without danger, it would be the interest of every conqueror
to effect it. Anl what was that? Why, it was simply
to convert the tenure of land in a conquered province from
tenancy for lire, or for a longer period, at a quit rent, to
tenancy at will. (Hear, hear.) Doubtless, if that could
be effected without risk it would be a great advantage to
any conqueror, but from the earliest period of history, wi-
ther in Europe or in has any com-pi:Lr )r att-em pted
to per forsa so difficult and dangerous an operation. (Hear,
hear.) Neither Aurungz3be, Tamerlane, nor Nadir Shah
ever attempted sueli a proceeding. (11-ar, hear.) The
sight hen. gentleman the member for Radnor has described
the Britiell rule in India from 1761 to 1781 as a period of
rapacity so -rcely ever keown, and yet during that period
no British ccriquterar in India ever attempted an operation
of this nature. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I cannot help
thinkieg that, is, consequence of difference of opinion be-
tween the civil and military authorities is India, Lord
Canning in issuing this proclamation has yielded his better
judgment to the influence of certain civilians who surround
bi.n. ([leer, hear ) As regards the value of the opinions of
civilians, I will read to the house the opinion of a great
militery authority W 11133 frien Iship I hist the happiness to
enjoy, I mean Sir John Malcelm. Sir John Maleoln
soya

," Listen not to general reaconers, or, what we term hero
Sircarees. They are always right on paper, and always
wrong in action. . . There is not a human being
(certainly no Nab eh or Maharajah) whom I half dread so
so much as an able Calcutta civilian, whose travels are
limited to two or three hundred miles, with a hookah in
his mouth, some geed but abstract maxims in his head,
the Regulations in his right hand, the Company's charter
in his left, and a quire of wire-wore foolscap before him."
(Loud laughter.) Now, that was the opinion which Sir
J. Malceltn wrote to a Governor-General of India, warning
him as to the value to be attached to the advice of
civilians on matters of this description. (Hoar, hear.)
What, too, was the opinion of Lord Wellesley, one of the
best and boldest Governors-General who ever wielded
power in India ? Was he of opinion that annexing a
province was to be followed by cerifiscation of private
rights? (Hear.) What was the advice which the Duke
of Wellington gave? He slid, if you conquer a province
deal lightly with individnals, but grind the State—that is
to say, respect the rights of in tiviluels, but deal as
harshly as you may think expe.tient with the sovereign
power. What did the great commander who conquered
' Scinie? He, following the a lvice of his great chief,
master, and instructor, dealt lightly with in lividuals, but
he ground the Arneere. Sir W. Napier has very recently
placed on record the actual measures which were adopted
by his brother, and to describes the course pursued by
that dist nsnished mac in these words :
" He proclaimed at once that all rights and possessions
would be safe from confiscation. His expression was that
'the conquest of a country was suMcient convulsioa for
any people to endure, without adding thereto abrupt in-
novations on their social habits.' He even confirmed all
the Government servants in their employments. The
only exception he made was the Lugharee chief, and
that by an especial crier of. Lord Ellenherough, on the
rround of his having treacherously assailed the Residency.
Even this man, because he only acted under the orders of
his Sovr reign, Sir Charles afterwards restored. No doubt
he threatened to confiscate the estates of one or two other
chiefs who continued hostilities after the war was virtually
over; but this was simply as a war measure to in lure
them to surrender. "Thus," went on Sir W. Napier to
say, that " Sir Charles Napier's policy was both vtally
and literally the reverse of Lord Canning s, and founded
upon an essentially different state of affair?. The one con-
fiscated tto whole property of the country with hut seven
Tir eight mentioned exceptions; the other confirmed all
men in their possessions, with ono or two exceptions for
cspeeial crimes."
(Hear, hear.) The doctrine of confiscation is the most
da.ngeroui which any conqueror can adopt. Villemain
tells us that Napoleon on his return ftom Elba in the first
flush of anger determined to issue a proCamation confis-
cating the property of Talleyrand, Angereau, and -about
15 other persons, but his honest and faithful friend and
follower Bertrand, wile true in adversity as in prosperity,
followed his great master to St. Helene, and shared his
captivity with him, refused to countersign the ordinance.
He said to Napoleon that the man who would advise the
Emperor to begin a system of confiscation was his most
cruel enemy. Labe:toyer° also gave the Emperor similar
advice. In the middle ages this doctrine of confiscation
was often had recourse to, and, although I cannot pre-
tend to give the words thernselvee,l must remind the house
of the opinion that was expressed by one of the wisest of
mankind, at the same time begging it to remember that
human feelings and human passions are the same in India
that they are in Europe. (Hear, hear.) That philosopher
said that it is not safe to confiscate a man's property un-
less you era also prepared to deprive him of his life. (Hear,
hear.) Ho said that a son could bier with great com-
placency the death of his father, while the loss of his in-
heritance might drive him to despair. Now, that is a
principal which history has taught us, and I cannot