The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-26 00:00:00

TitlE SUN,

the property the prisoners were now charged
with stealing in the hold. The captain and
elate of the Zoophite identified all the property which
bad been stolen from the cabin and state room of the
ship. The cabin had been broken into while the captain,
mate, and crew were asleep, and every portable article
of value removed. The captain's writing desk contained
his papers and documents of considerable importance
The prisoners bad put on a few things belonging to the
captain and mate, and they were taken from them.
Evidence of similar convictions summarily was given.
The prisoners had been convicted summarily six or seven
times. They had also been convicted by juries.
Mr. Yardley—l intend to commit there men for trial
when the case is complete. Take the evidence of the
inspectors as to the summary convictions, and bring me
forward proof of their conviction by a jury on Monday
next. I remand the prisoners till Monday.

LONDON,

nistrative ability he possessed. The business of the
Home-office was already quite sufficient, if not more than
sufficient, to occupy the attention of the ablest man,
and he was sure that the end of the scheme, if adopted,
would be the transfer of the Irish business to a separate
department. The second scheme recommended was, that
the Lord Lieutenant should merge into a Secretary of
State, who should remove to London and conduct the
business there instead of in Dublin Castle. He was far
rom saying that this was impossible, but he thought it
would be atteaded with great inconvenience. Personal
communication between the lower officials and the Lord-

L;eu:enant had been productive of much good in Ireland,
but if this were carried out, that practice must cease.
The third scheme was now before the house. It was

proposed that a Secretary of State should be app3inted,
but that the staff should he left in Dublin, and that

during the recess the minister should reside in Ireland,
but without the ceremony and splendour that now sur-
rounds the head of the Irish government. The objection

t) this scheme was that it would place the head of the
department at a di,tance from his subordinates, and it
would therefore be quite impossible for him to be so well
informed upon the details of hie administration as though
he were on the spot. These were the three modes sug-
gested, and the oljnti3ns standing in the way of
their adoption. He thought the obj3ctioes ought to
be answered before any one of the alterations was
tried ; but be that as it might, be did not think that
the hon. and learned gentlea.an had proved that there
were any great evils existing in the pr ?sent Government
calling for the sudden and immediate change now pro-
posed. No doubt Island had wonderfully improved
wihin the la=t t-,n years ; indeed, its progress was little
short of miraculous. Far be it, however, from him to

say that this improvement was attributable t 3 the exist-
ing mode of government ; but, on the other hand, he
might fairly urge that the Government had exercised no
pernicious, blighting, or retarding influence over the
country. So far froth that being the case, it was gene-
rally admitted that the government of Ireland bad gone
with the times, and that it had spared no pains to in-
crease the improvements which a bountiful Providence
had vouchsafed the land. But it was said the office of
Lord-Lieutenant was kept up for party purposes. He
had no great experience in the tactics of the Castle, bat
so far as he hal been able to inveetiga.e the matter, be
did not believe there was any solid foundation for the
stories told of political intrigue. No doubt there had
been some intriguing ; but there were intrigues in Down-
ing-street as well as Dublin Castle—(a laugh)—and at
one time he was disposed to imagine that there was some
very mysterious influence?, always at work in`" Dublin
Castle, but a close acquaintance with its affairs had not
strengthened but rather altered that opinion. The recent
levia at Dublin Castle showed that men of all shades of
opinion were anxious to flock round the Lerd-Lieu-
tenant ' • in fact, there was a strong feeling prevailing in
Ireland that the Castle was now neutral ground whereon
parties of all shades of opinion could meet and enj ly
each other's society. (Hear.) He believed this question
was now being discussed by the Irish people themselves,
and he was not quite sure whether a strong feeling had
not sprung up in favour of a change. Public opinion upon
the subject, however, was daisy growing wronger ; the
people were getting more disposed to pay attention to
their own domestic concerns rather than to mere party
politics; but though a goodly proportion of them might
be favourable to a change, it yet never could be brought
about by the mere votes of English members. In order to
do it satisfactorily the will of the Irish people must be
first unmistakeably pronounced upon it, and the measure
itself introduced into Parliament by the Minister of the
day. The question therefore might be safely left in the
hands of the Irish people, and he entreated the house
not to fall into the error of adopting a motion to force
upon them a change of administration which it was just
poesills et no distant period of time a large proportion
of them would be rea3y to propose themselves. (Cheers.)
Sir G. C. LEWIS concurred in much that had fallen
from the hon. and learned member for Sheffield ; but
there was one point in the speech of the hon. and leareed
member who bad moved the amendment from which he
altogether dissented. He differed from the view he took
of the office of Lord-Lieutenant. He disputed his propo-
sition that there was an implied contract in the act of
union for is continuance. There was, he believed, no-
thing whatever in the state of the law rendering it neces-
sary to keep the office oF Lord-Lieutenant. The argu-
ment which he drew from the Act of Union was directly
contrary to that entertained by the hon. member for
Armagh (Mr. Millar); for if it had been the view of Mr.
Pitt, or of the Parliament of the time, that the Lord-
Lieutenancy should be maintained, that would have
been provided for in the act itself. Therefore, so far as
the propositions of the act were concerned, the inference
he drew was that there was nst an intention to maintain
the Lord-Lieutenancy. The reason for this was quite
apparent. Before the union Ireland was a dependency of
this country, and the Lord-Lieutenaney was calculated
for the government of such a place. Tne government of
Ireland before the union was similar to that of one of our
colonies. There was a separate Parliament, and such
being the case, a Lord-Lieutenant was a necessity. At
the time of the union the office of L wd-Lieutenant was
allowed to remain, though the Parliament was abolished.
Toe position of the Lord-Lieutenant was, hewever,
much altered ; instead of his position as head of the Par-
liament there, he thenceforward became the chief of a
number of administrative officer?. At that time steam
navigation was a thing as yet unheard of, and the
packets to Dublin often beat about for more than a week
in the Channel. Communication between the metro-
polis and the capital of Ireland was therefore liable
to be suspended for a time ; and, under such circurn
stances, there were many reasons why it was expedient
that there should be a head of the administration resi-
dent in Dublin. There were, too, at that time, separate
exchequers for Ireland and England— adistinction which
now no longer eeieted. In addition to the fact that diffi•
culties of this kind no longer txi,ted, was the further
fact that since the anion departments had been created
in Dublin which did not then exist. There had been
created a department cf police, comprising a large body
of men, who now undertook many duties which were for-
merly undertaken by the military. Besides the police,
there was in Dublin a department for the administra-
tion of the poor law. These two constituted important
departments of administration in Ireland, which bad a
local character, and which might continue to hold their
local position though the Lord-Lieutenancy no longer
existed. On the other hand, the administration of re-
venue, the customs, taxes, and stamps, had been with-
drawn from Ireland, and were now located in London.
All these things afforded facilities for abolishing the
office of Lonl-Lientenant which did not exist at the time
of the passing of the Act cf Union. Everybody must see
that through the increased conveyaecee of steam and of
the electric telegraph - - through the changes which had
taken place in the mode of administration at Dublin
since the year 1800—it was impossible to look for the
permanent continuance of the offiee of Lord-Lieutenant.
(Hear.) The house must indeed come, he thought, to
the conclusion, that it should consider the office as a
temporary one, to be left only until some mode of admi-
nistration could be substituted for it. Therefore, with
regard to the first part of the resolution which had been
proposed, he should be prepared to yield an assent to
the views of the hon. member. But the resolution in-
volved a second branch, which was net the abolition of
the Lord-Lieutenancy, but the establishment of a depart-
ment of Secretary of state charged with the affairs of
Ireland. He must in the first place adroit chat looking to
the question as one of expense, bethought no great saving
could arise from the substitution of a secretary of state for
the Lord-Lieutenant. His hon. friend had estimated the
eepense cf,the Lord-Lieutenancy at 60,000/. a-year, but he
did not say how he arrived at that sum, and he tSir G.
Lewis) thought that the amount was over estimated.
The salary of the Lord-Lieutenant was 10,0001. a-ye tr,
and the household expenses could not exceed 5,0001.
There were some expenses fur the maintenance of build-
ings—for keeping up the house at PS eenix-park, and at
the Castle, but he thought it would be very difficult to
swell the entire annual charge to a greater amount than
30,0001. a-year. An office of Secretary of State, with two
under secretaries, and an establishment which would be
necessary fur a Secretary of State, would not fall far 'short
of 20,0001. Then there would be a sum for compensation;
for on all changes of system there were per: gas to be
compensated. Thus, fur some time, the amount which
would be saved by such a change would he very slight.
Hence the institution of another office of Secretary of
State could not be considered as a matter of economy,
but of administration. Dismissing the topic of economy,
he came to the question whether it was expedient to eub-
stitute a Secretary of State for the Lord-Lieutenant. He
wondered that the hon. and learned member did not upon
this point refer to the precedent which history afforded
of the Secretary of State for Scotland. The introduction
of a new Secretary of State was a proposal made some
years ago. Then his noble friend the member for the city
of London (Lord J. Russell) was at the head of the Go-
verment, and at that time be (Sir G. Lewis) was pre-
pared to give his vote in favour of that proposal. But since
that bill was introduced the house ha-. 1 created a fourth
Secretary of State, they had divided the colonial and war
departments. The question now arose whether it was ex-
pedient to conetiter e a fifth secretary. That somewhat al
tered the position of the question ; and moreover, since
that time the state of Ireland had become more tranquil,
and less requiring the institution of a separate department
for Ireland. He confessed that, looking at the matter as
it stood at present, he wee not disposed to accede to the
proposal for the creation of a fifth Secretary of State for
Ireland. What would be the position of such a secretary
during time recess" During therecess would he be required
to visit Ireland and t resio:e there ! If so, how could
he attend the meetings of the Cabinet, which generally
took place during the recess, for the consideration of
measures to be brought forward in the ensuing PArlia-
ment. If be were to live entirely in during the time
when Parliament was not eitting, his position would be
almost the same as that of the Lord-Lieutenant. If, on
the other hand, he was to attend Cabinet meeting., it
would not be possible for him to visit Ireland. He con-
fessed that it seemed to him teat the house ought not to
require the abolition of the Lord-Lieutenancy until the
affairs of that country were in such a position that the
charge might be made without involving the creation of
a separate It ish department. lie did not think that the
time was very distant ts hen it would be possible fer
the Home-office to give all general directions without tee
necessity for a separate department for Leland. Until
that time arrived—and he was not prepared to say it
bad then arrived—it would, he thought, be letter to
retain the present organisation. (C tests.)
At the close of the right hon. gentleman's address
much laughter was caused by the fact that nearly every
Irish member present rose to address the house.
The SPEAKER called upon
Mr. BLACKBURN, who thought that the speech
which had just fallen from the riat.t hon. gentlema'n
proved corolusively the expediency of adopting the
amendment which he (slr. Blackburn) had placed on the
paper, viz., that the the motion should not go beyond
the motion for the abolition of the Lord-Lieutenancy.
Toe hon. menaberopposite (Mr. Roebuck) had attributed
1/4-Zettlua:4 ',s o_rr motive. It was not unusual in the hon.
here seysral motives could he attributed! to