The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-13 00:00:00

IMPiatIAL PAit WAILES T.

HOUSE OF CONINIONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The house re•assemb4Jl to-day. Hououra,ole msm-
' ber! comenenee ite-roobling about a quarter pri,t three
aryl amofigst the earliest arrivals were Viscount
Gi:dA Tch, Mr: Ro,buck, Mr. Drerion'iondi iNtr. Card-
well, Sir W. Heathcote, Mr. Belitinck, Lord H.,,thain,
Mr. Ellice, sen., Sir F. Baring, Colonel Wilson Patten,
Sir E. Perry, Mr. I. Butt, Sir De Lacy Evans, Mr. J.
W. Fox, Sir J. Graham, &c., &c.
At twenty mi,iutes to 4 o'clock the Attorney-General,
the Solicitor-General, the Lord Advocate, and Colonel
Forrester, entered the house and took their seats in the
place allotted for newly-elected members.
The SPEAKER took the chair at a quarter to 4 o'clock,
NEW MEMBERS SSORN.
Right Hon. Benjamin Disraeli, for Buckingham
County.
Right Hon. Spencer Horatio Walpole, for Cambridge
University.
Right Hon. Sir John Somerset Pakington, for Droit-
wich.
Right Hon. Lord Stanley, for King's Lynn.
Right Hon. Jonathan Peel, for Huntingdon Borough.
Right Hon. Lord John Manners, for Leicester County
(Northern Division).
Right Hon. Joseph Warner Henley, for Oxford
County.
Jahn Inglis, Esq., for Stamford.
Right Hon. Charles Bowyer Adderley, for Stafford
County (Northern Division).
Hngh M'Calmont Cairns, Esq., for Belfast.
Lord Henry Lennox, for Chichester.
Right Hon. John Thomas Henry Sotherton Estcourt,
for Wilts (Northern Division).
Right Hoc. George Cecil Weld Forester, for Wen-
lock.

Lord Lovaine, for Northumberland (Northern Div
slot)).

Sir Fitzroy Kelly, for Suffolk County (Eastern Divi
sion).

Henry Whitmore, Esq., for Bridgnorth.
On the front opposition benches, amongst the earliest
arrivals of the members of the late Government, were,
Sir B Hall, Sir W. G. Hayter, Mr. J. D. Fitzgerald,
Sir H. Keating, and Lord Duncan.
Lord John Russell arrived shortly after 4 o'clock and
took his seat on the front bench, immediately below the
gangway—the seat usually occupied by Lord Palmer-
ston when that noble lord was the leader of the Oppo-
sition on a former occasion.
Sir C. Wood, Mr. Laboucbere, Sir G, Grey, Sir G.
C. Lewis, Mr. V. Smith, Mr. Lowe, and Lord Palmer-
ston entered the house about half-past four o'clock, and
took their seats on the front opposition benches.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following private bills were read a second
time :—Chester and Holyhead Railway ; Darenth
Valley Railway ; East Suffolk, Yarmouth and Had-
discos, and Lowestoft and Beccles Railway Com-
panies Amalgamation ; Electric Telegraph Company ;
Middlesborough Improvement ; Mid-Kent Railway
(Croydon Extension) ; Tyne River Improvement ; Wal-
lasey Improvement.

_ .
PAPER DUTY,
Mr. GILPIN presented several petitions from prin-
ters and other; in London, against the paper duty.
NEW WRIT,
On the motion of Sir W. JOLLIFFE a new writ was
ordered for Durham, in the room of Mr. J. R. Mow-
bray, appointer'. Judge-Advocate General.
THE CASE OF MR. ISAAC BUTT.
Sir J. GRAHAM brought up the report of the select
committee appointed to inquire into the charges against
Mr. Isaac Butt, relative to the Aweer Ali Moorad, the
particulars of which have already been published, and on
the motion of the right hon. baronet, the ininutts of
evidence and the report were ordered to be printed.
MILITIA.
General PEEL brought up the supplemental estimates
for the militia.

_____ _, 7 -- ,---- - .. , '-• ' k -- - • -.0'.'4: ..- wit Alir ~.
4Ubifc~ of the humblest Stete. (Hoer.) Be proposed to r enich Las. ; a eieed Ile Government ought to -oleo:Ake
dhow that these two men had been, lung detained in rate. There are other opinions which way be eq :ally
prison at Salerno, not because they were guilty of any entitled is reelect. All will agree that it is t_ ii"P.,t poiflt
offence aga•ust Neapolitan la,e, nor even becauee they , 0. law ; and therefore all that can be done is tinetothose
had had the misfortunes to make herneelves amenable to .1 who have the management of _those affairs should be
the trieunele of that ceuetry, but. because, having been j gu;ded•by the legal decisions which they believe to be
captured on the high sear:, they had no authority to I most sound and.equitable. . This affair having cone on
whom they could appeal for protectioo except that of then for ten nieeW.,--the jeriidictien of -t),e Kingdom ef '. e
British Gov, el-anent, and, from eie teems! encte which •• Two iltee a eig beenacknowledged from the fiat by
e ere yet unexplained, that protection had been with- ' the English Government—the trial proceeding—eta
held. The house might ask why it was, the circurn• they having interfered only as far as the Englishmen
stances having occurred so long ago as June last, that were concerned—it seems to us that we are foreclosed
the rights of these men had been so long infringed. He from opening this question. We have admitted the *tiii •
was prepared with some statements which would explain diction, and I think the boo. and learned
gentlemanj is
the hitherto obscurity of the case. He would first give labouring under a false impression in supposing that
a simple narrative of the facts. (The hon. and learned this was a mere affair of policy which would be changed
gentleman then proceeded minutely to detail the facts by a change of Government. Ido not see that the Go-
of the capture which has already appeared more than vernment of this country could do more, in the position
once in The Sun.) A proof of the perfect innocence of in which this question finds itself, than to take the most
the crew, and especially of the two engineers, was efficient steps to obtain for our unfortunate countrymen
found in the fact that when the steamer came in prompt justice, and to take care that while the investi-
sight of the English squadron precautions were gationsis going on they should feel that they are not de-
taken to prevent any of the crew being seen on eerted by their country. (Hear,bear.) Finding this state
deck, and the portholes were closed up to prevent the of affairs, I can assure the house that her Majesty's Go-
two engineers making signals with their handkerchiefs. vernment have not at all neglected it. It was the very
So late as Feb. sth last, Lord Clarendon had stated in first thing to which we gave our attention. Lord Malmes-
the House of Lords that the captain of the Cagliari bad bury communicated immediately with a gentleman end •
surrendered to the Neapolitan squadron ; but it now ap- nen t for his ability andstation, who was calculated in
peered that this was not the ease. The Cagliari was every way to exercise a very beneficial influence on behalf
captured at a distance of 6 to 12 miles from any part of of our countrymen, who happened to be at Rome, and was
the coast. She was afterward. towed back nearly to the directed to repair without loss of time to Salerno to loves-
place she had come from, the object being to make it tigate from the first the wholeof the proceedings against
appear that she bad been captured near the shore. It these two unfortunate individuals—to take every
was clear that no sort of crime bearing the complexion precaution that that trial should be conducted with im-
of international crime was committed from first to last, partiality, and that they should want no means of assist-
When the insurgents rose against the captain t :ey were ance in conducting their defence; in fact, "to do every
committing an offence against the municipal law of Sar- thing (I believe I quote the language of the ins•ructionei
dinia. When they disembarked in the Island of Ponza to comfort and sustain them in the grievous trial to
they were clearly committing an offence against the which they are subjected"—(hear)—and to accompany
Neapolitan government ; but on neither occasion was all this with as stirring a pretest as possible against
any
there an offence which would bear the construction of delay whatever in coming to a decision on this case. I
international offence. It being impracticable for the hope the house will believe that, in the difficult position
Neapolitan government to treat this as a case of piracy, in which we found this affair, we have done all—l do
they had endeavoured to establish it as a case of war— not say that could he done—but all that it was advisable
not between the Neapolitan government and the Sar- to do for the advantage of these two men. And I must
dinian government, but between the King of the Two express more than a hope that these exertions will not
Sizilies and this small body of insurgents. And from be fruitless, that we shall see our countrymen restored
this they educed the consequence that they had a right to England, and that the end of this unhappy affair will of capture, not only as against the insurgents, but as not be so mortifying and so shameful as the hon. gentle-
against all the parties who happened to be parties in man thinks. The hon. gentleman guarded himself against
this great war. They said that, finding this force on any expression which at this moment might produce ex-
the high seas in time of war, they were entitled to take eitement or arouse feelings—unamiable feelings—to-
the Englishmen into custody, to bring them hack, and wards the Government of Naples. lam extremely glad
to have their innocence tested. The Prize Court was that he spoke in that spirit. Ido not think that the po-
an institution belonging exclusively to the state of war. sition of our unfortunate countrymen would be benefited
These poor men had been imprisoned ever since the 29th by our departing from that courtesy which is usually
of June ; and from that hour to this nothing had been shown to foreign Powers. After all, what is more iin-
done by the Government of this country towards their portant than the question of law—what is more impor- I
liberation. The statement drawn up by Mr. Acting- tent than any question as to sovereign rights and inte-
Consul Barber showed the treatment to which these rests ? and what really touches the feelings of this coun-
men had been subjected. He said : " Watt and Park try is, that we should obtain the release of those two
were landed from the steamer Cagliari at the end of men, and that they should obtain that release by the
June last, together with the captain of that ship, her public recognition of their innocence. Such a result will
crew and passengers. The captain, engineers, and pas- be facilitated, no doubt, by temperate conduct and tem-
sengers were at once conveyed to the Vioaria prison un- perate language. I can assure the house that the subject
bound, but the crew were handcuffed. As soon as they anxiou-ly occupies the attention of Government, and
reached the prison, the engineers, as well as the others, that no means will be spared by which we can obtain
were desired that if they had any papers they would give for these individuals that justice to which they are en-
them up. Watt had none; Park gave up his pocket' ' titled, and the vindication of their character from that
book, wherein he had a copy of a note which the insur- charge of misconduct of which I believe them to be en-
gents bad forced upon him when they took possession of tirely innocent. (Hear, hear.)
the steamer 'shot tly after leaving Genoa—the original Mr. HEADLAM Fad that one of those unhappy men
remained on board. This note was not ;signed by any was a constituent of his, and he naturally f, It a strong
person, nor addressed to any one, and was worded nearly I interest in the case. (Hear.) He of course admitted that
11.4 follows, viz., 4 We have resolved to free our country i the mere change of Government did not necessarily in-
from the yoke of slavery under which we have so long ' elude any change of policy, and lie did not say anything
suffered, and we call upon all upright men to aid us. if of the present government which he would not say of
you do your duty, no harm shall befall you, but if other- ; their predecessors. (Hear.) But he confessed he bed
wise your lives are sacrificed.' They—the engineers and ; listened with some dissatisfaction to the statement that
otners—on arriving at the prison, were stripped naked the previous Government had admitted the jurisdiction
by the police or prison authorities, and in that position of the kingdom of Naples, and that consequently the
were jeered at by them. After allowing them to dress present Government were precluded from taking what
again, the two engineers, with the passengers, were con- he conceived to be the strongest argument in favour of
veyed to a prison on the ground floor, consisting of two the-e unuappy men, namely, a complete denial of the
small rooms, which were very damp, with one small 1 jurisdiction ef the Neapolitan courts. (Hear.) Hs felt
barred window which looked into the prison-yard.: somewhat alarmed lest, between the two Governments,
Through this window the sun never entered, and scarcely I the healths and the fortunes of our countrymen should
were they able to distinguish daylight through it. To the i ba endangered and destroyed. (Hear.) He had for sow e
misery of damp and bad-ventilation was added one still : time taken the doep-st interest in this question. Like tin
greater—viz.. teat in lieu of a water-closet, a wooden ; late Government, for a long time he believed, upon the
tub was placed in the middle e f each room. Thee two i facts that were before the house and the country, that
tubs were emptied every evening, if the engineers paid 1 the strict letter of the law was with the Neapolitan Go-
some person to do so, but not otherwise. They were 1 vernment. Me had thought that the capture was legal—
never washed, and the stench, especially at night, when that the Neapolitann Governinnentthabtad.
right,
rhigandtatio.i try
t
the small barred window was closed, was very great, and . tbe,ee, incidentTen,and,.asa
custody. Sutch beingthem
foots,
t supposed
aplinited to
kept in those rooms during the three hottest months in
what the late Government had fulfilled—namely, a mere
the year—July, Augu-t, and September. They were
taken out when required by the police authorities to suggestion that the trial should be a speedy one—an
submit them to an interrogatory. On such occasions they endeavour to obtain justice when it did come on—and
were handcuffed before leaving the room, and brought an endeavour, by remonstrance or other modes, to miti-
back in the same manner. Park mentions that on one gate as far as possible the hardships to which these mu n
occasion they conductei him through damp underground were subjected. Now the facts appeared to be totally dif-
prisons before bringing him to be interrogated, and from ferent. And upon these facts he rested the very clear
the manner of the men who guarded him, he under- and self-evident proposition—that the Neapolitan Go-
stood that the intention was to intimidate him. The vernment were not justified in the capture of the Cagliari
allowance made to them by the Neapolitan Government in the manner in which she was captured, and that, con-
is—black bread of a very bad quality, and soup of so eequently, not only hal we a right to complain of the
nauseous a nature that they had turned always Irons it cruelty to which these men had been subj eted, and to
in disgust, and four grani per day each (less than 2d.) say that they were entitled to an acquittal upon the
in money. Money was occasionally Bent to them by merits, but far more, we were entitled to say that they
myself and some English engineers resident at Naples, never ought to have been confined at all, that they ought
by which they were enabled to buy better food. Their not to be pet upon tLe.ir tritil and that every hour during
beds consisted of boards supported on wooden trestles, which they continued in their state of illegal confinement
with one mattress stuffed with bad tow, mixed with bits was a humiliation inflicted upon thiscountry. (Cheers )It
of straw. They suffered much from vermin. In the was an undoubted fact that this capture did take place
beginning of Ootober they, with the captain and crew, not within waters of Neapolitan jurisdiction, but upon
were removed from the Yiearia prisons to those of the high sea.. (Hear.) But this was the essence of the
Salerno. The manner this was ellsoted was as fol- whole question. (Hear, hear.) When the case was
lows :—The police handcuffed Park, and passed a leather first made known to them it was supposed that the
strap besides through both arms ; they attempted the capture was made within the Neapolitan waters, and
same with Watt, but he resisted this indignity as long not where it actually was male. (Hear.) The reason of
as he bad strength, but being overpowered, he was the mistake was this, that immediately after the capture
handcuffed and strapped in the same manner as Park. the Cagliari was taken in tow by a Neapolitan war
They were then tied together, put into a carriage into steamer, and brought within a few miles of the Nea-
which three gendarmes likewise entered. The windows politan shore. Consequently, when the vessel was first
of the carriage were all drawn up, and thus, suffering seen in capture it was within the waters of Naples, and
from the tightness with which they were bound, they therefore the impression arose that the capture was made
were forced to perform at a slow pace a journey of about within those waters. This Ras the first aid moet ire-
-30 miles by night, in a carriage hermetically closed. portant fact of the case. The second was, that when the
They begged repeatedly that a window might be let vessel was captured no act of violence was done by her
down, for the sake of air. Their request was not com. which could at all be construed into an act of war or
plied with. When they reached the prison of Salerno piracy, or invasion of the municipal law of Naples or
the crew of the Cagliari were placed in two rooms—one any other country. However, she was taken forcibly
a large airy room, the other smaller and well ventilated. by two armed vessels, a shotted gun, he believed,
The captain and the two engineers were put into a was fired over her, and the captain and men were
small room immediately under those occupied by the brought upon shore. The question under these cir-
crew, which belorag'Al to the gaoler. The room being oumstances, was one which any gentleman could decide
situated very low, and the space occupied by their three upon for himself. They knew of course that if any
beds leaving them little space to walk in, the captain Englishman, however innocent, bad been arrested in a
commenced suffering from bowel complaint. Watt has street of Naples for any alleged breach of the peace they
threatened insanity ; and Park, who enjoyed very good could not deny the right of the Neapolitan Government
health before his imprisonment, now suffers from fits. to try him. All they could do was to endeavour to miti-
A petition was sent by them to the Aatorney-General, gate his position and to get him a fair hearing. But if
begging that they might be placed in the same the Neapolitan Government arrested a British subject,
rooms with the crew, which was granted one day even though guilty of a breach of the peace, on the high
before our going to Salerno, viz., on the 24th of seas, they were acting without the sanction of law, and
November. They have now a certain space to walk in, beyond their right; and it was the duty of this country
in the larger room of the two. Since their arrival at Sa- to deny the right of the Neapolitan Government, and
lerno tha engineers have frequently been conveyed from to demand the release of the party. (Hear, hear.) No
their prison to the tribunal to be examined by the Attor- dispute could arise as to facts ; and as to the matter of
ney-General. Oa these occasions they have been paraded law, no doubt (Aloe ias to the course which might to be
through the streets of Salerno, strongly guarded, and taken by this country. That course was taken by the
handcuffed. They have repeatedly begged that they Sardinian Government. (Hear, hear.) The Sardinian
might be spared the humiliation of handcuffs, but their Government rested their case on this view, and he
prayer has always been refused. The handcuffs are made contended it was the duty of the present Govern- ,
of iron. Park states that for several days after they moot, as it was the duty of the late Government, if they
reached etyo
reached Salerno the marks were still visible on their had known these facts, to support the sapitaeuvietwri,haunnals,
wrists and arms, from the tightness with which they bring the matter,
not
beforeoul nthoet submitapo Ito, but befure
were bound when they were taken from Napl s to whose jurisdictionovherenmvient for the purpose of insisting
Salerno. The small sum of four grani per day, allowed the
I,
Neapolitan restitution
of the subjects of this country. (Hear.)
to each man by the Neapolitan Government, enables
theta to pay for the hire of their beds. The beds are of OHetfeelt that these men were our fellow-subjects— men
on whom great and grievous cruelty had been inflicted,
a better description than those they had at Naples.abTohuet
and he for one was not satisfied with the course which
company to whom the Cagliari belongs allows
subsistence,her Majesty's government had pursued, (Hear.) He
this small sum, having to be divided among
12-,. 2d. daily to assist the crew in their
t22persons,
butons
understood from the newspapers that Mr. Lyons had
helps them but very little." Such was thes
cruelty to' been directed to attend at the trial, and to Bee that
which they had been subjected that one of them lead- justice was done. He doubted if that was sufficient or
been suffering from illness, and the other had been en adequate to the gravity of the occasion. He believed
fortunately reduced to a state of insanity.
that the truest course to take for the honour and dignity
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—
of the country, and the best for those unhappy men who
Though I have already spoken in this debate, I will ask
had been now subjected to ten months of grievous
erse-
cution, would be with firmness and dignity to denyP the
permission of the house to be allowed to do so again • ; right of the Neapolitan tribunals to try them, and to
for it would be un apparent want of courtesy to the hon. claim in conjunction with the Sardinian government,
and learned gentleman if I did not answer the statement that they should be restored to their liberty and their
which he has made. No doubt the case of these two country. (Hear, hear.)
engineers is one of a very distressing character, and one Mr. ROEBUCK said if anything could astonish him
in that house, it was the language of the right hon, gentle-
which has the marked sympathy not only of every mem-
ber of this house, but of the country generally. (Hear, man on that occasion—language which was wholly un-
hear.) That men from the north of England, in the worthy of a British minister. (Loud cheers.) Two
peaceable pursuit of that ingenious industry which was Englishmen had been seized unjustly on the high seas,
and subjected to ten months of horrible
imprisonment,
.
their means of livelihood, should be suddenly thrown
into a prison in the south of Europe, under the circum- and the government of this country were cognisagnwttor!
these facts. The right hon. gentleman wasnotHaen
(sin
stances in which these individual, find themselves, is a
combination of circumstances which at once engages the able for what occurred in the first instance.nw
attention of all. (Hear.) It may be that these individuals Roebuck) did not care whether these le
He should
are morally innocent. Indeed, I would not hesitate to the Neapolitan waters or out of them. (
taken out of them,
ear.) re taken in
say, so far as I can form an opinion, that I have a strong enhance his case by weresaying*tfhteaykenin Neapolitan waters,
impression that they are morally innocent. (Hear.) But but he would say that even i
they should have been protected by
the hon. and learned gentleman must know that a per- being g
unfortunate
son may be morally innocent, and yet u.ay, by
) But what was the case ?
causes, be placed in circumstances in which it is assn- elate trial. (
Hear,
but consigned to a dungeon, where
the poEwenr-loisfhEmennilanhdiaarnd have had a fair and imme
lutely necessary that, to demonstrate that moral inno- They were not
oence, he mast submit to judicial investigation. Ido they were exposed
lookedto heour—rilowlebiplertivatthioansNpo
privations, aenadwlietalnookgeod.
not clearly understand from the hon. and learned gentle- one—tamely
man what it is that he expects from her Majesty's Go- vernment committed these indignities on English
(Hear, hear.) But the ease did not rest
vernment.l Let ns look at the facts of this case. It subject:o.r
they were captured out of the Neapolitan
Then the Neapolitan government
happened about nine or ten months ago ; and of course there,
that alone would render us most anxious to pay every waters. filo eseary.)
they were pirates. The piracy was
attention to the position of these individuals. But there attempted t
p uTthtenyt
hweeirrehgeonidnig,
of tie Neapolitan government, and not on
was no neglect on the part of the late Government in on the part
attending to these circumstances. They were submitted the paGretuoofat;hethseeymwene.re
s(eHizeeadr:
pistols to the investigation and to the decision of the law offieers
and
dm
commanded to do certain things. They did them.
of the Crown, and the course of the Government wass
to
nVtien released they went back, and were on their way
taken in accordance with the decision of the law offiofcetern.
Naples to give information of what had occurred.
They have continued, during this long period
advice of They were taken by the Neapolitan vessel, thrown into
months, to act upon the opinion and by
those high authorities. It was not a crassuwathalseor cursory prison, and treated in a way which was a disgrace to a
drawn to civilised country. (Hear, bear.) All these IaC'LF3 came
opinion. The attention of the law officers
every incident that has occurred in these transactions ;to the knowledge of the Government now Bitting on that
and therefore it was the continuous and frequent opinion (the opposition) bench. Wasanything
a tdfoanr ce to
e. (C.ti e e r sa.l
(Hear hear.) We
of the late officers that guided them in the course they the honour of England 1 Nothing.
fa
Government matterof p;oliitciy,
vv recalled
ha t happened
aopupre minister
ned
afterwards
;w e enacted 3 have pursued. It is not, therefore;
of this country has jecta were subjected to this horrible imtwo. English subd-
which can be changed by a change
a matter of law. The Government
jurisdiction of the kingdon of the Two there was no one to watch over their t)
r l
interests.son m e n t 1
v,
acknowledged the
and
acknowledged the jurisdiction of the kingdon of the Two there w&s no one to Watch over their interests. What
which it has sent out; and
Sicilies in the instructions should have been done was this : An immediate mee-
and
have been interfering in the regulation manage Bagel sage should have been sent to the King of Naples,
• •; no We have demanded permissionand • I_, have ment of their priso .
he ammo n been told, supposing these
that those two Englishmen should have the privilege of then•
were taken in Neapolitan waters, " These men
receiving the visits of their relatives and legal advisers. are not to be
to I e tried immediately, they are
The question is one of law, and not one of policy ;
their honour, their
and ill treated or ' ' red • their health, 7 have not heard from the hon. and learned gentleman fortunes, i
theirnu
not to be endangered ;they
reason are one reason why we should take it out of the class inmustbetroired fairly and immediately, and if this is not
which we found it. I cannot presume to give opinion of- air. Lyons, be would
, have
an done"—instead sending -
on this legal question, &Ann ;may think that thy opinions seat
I
Lord Lyons.—(laughter and ,
" hear, beer )—with a

. ;1. tlires-deale'r Ito Chu Rl3 01 :Naples cahnol:
shot of,the royal pa!ace. (Hear, huit.) was what. he would luive.done. The right hen:
.gentieman spoke
of uslug amiable fanguage. The amiable .lar'4ua:ge.Le
ivould have Uked would have heed eamionlFE6f,*.f.i;aug4.
ter and cheers.) They were told;tbal-r. -
ratirol•
te,"

and that,
"Her home was un the deep,"
but this won:d be true no longer if these things were to
be permitted. (Hear, hear.) When Spain committed
an act of oppression and treachery on an Englishman,
he, believing that his last hour was come, after
describing the horrors to which he was subjected, com•
mended his soul to God, and vengeance to his coun-
try. He (Mr. Roebuck) said on the part of these men
that though they west abroad, they went abroad with
the great tegis of their country over them, and
that they might walk the waters as safely as they might
the floor of that house ? What was the worth of ElIg•
land's navy, England's name, or of England's power, if
they did not protect English subjects wherever they
went ? (Hear, hear.) These men were in pursuit of
peaceful objects ; they did nothing contrary to any law
and yet they were treated in this cruel way, and one of
them lost his reason in consequence of the severity of a
Neapolitan imprisonment. We stood by, and were told
not to use unaimable language. Unaimable language !
When ho knew that one of his fellow countrymen had
been rendered insane by the conduct of Naples—(hear,
hear)—he should be unworthy of his position as an Eng.
lists rei
nprwe iheanttetr veciiin,le Erig
f he di raiseelm ihgihst
bvoei,c ea
nadn
wdt
ever say
Government might be in office, it was the duty of
ethvat,
England and England's Government to defend them.
(Cheers.)
Mr. W. EWART said that it appeared to him that
the circumstances of this case had completel changed, for
it was now clear that the Cagliari bad been seized not in
the waters of Naples, but on the high seas, It was upon
that view of the case that Count Cavour founded his
excellent and dignified deepatcb. He now wished to ask
her Majesty's Government whether it was their inten-
tion to act with the vigour which signalised the Sardi-
nian Government by sending a memorial to the Govera-
ment of Naples on this subject? (Hear,) The only
consistent course for this country to adept under the
altered circumstances of the case was to demand the
observance of international law, to vindicate the rightle of Englishmen, and the claims of justice. (Hear.)
Mr. HORSMAN said be agreed with the hon, and
learned member for Newcastle that tLis question (*laid
not be suffered to rest where it was, and whether it
was the present Government or the late Government
who were in fault, it was now high time for the House
of Commons to take this question into their own hands,
and that they should make themselves acquainted with
all the facts of the case. (Hear.) If, as appeared to be
the ease, these facts were uncontradicted, he must
say that, after these two countrymen of theirs bad
been for ten months in this state of imprisonment, the
position cf that house was most humiliating, and the
conduct which had been pursued was not creditable either
to the Ministry or to the hones. (Hear, hear.) A.
despatch of Count Cavour's appeared in the public papers
which had not been laid before the house. That docu-
ment bad, he presumed, received an answer from the
Neapolitan Government, a copy of which answer was no
doubt in the possession of her Majesty's Government.
He wished to ask whether it was not the fact that the
Neapolitan Government admitted that the capture of the
Cagliari was made on the open seas ; and if that vessel
was such as was described, and her capture effected in
the (Ten sea, he would ask the late Attorney-General
or the present Attorney-General, or any lawyer in the
h whether that capture was not an illegal capture.
(Hear, hear.) And if the capture was not legal, whether
the detention, the imprisonment, and every subsequent
proceeding was not a violation of international law I
(Hear, hear.) If that was the fact, and the state of
the law, was it any answer for the right honour-
a! le gentleman to tell the house that the last Go-
ve:nment chose to submit to have two British sub-
jects imprisoned and tortured, and dealt with in such a
manner that both lost their health, and one his reason f
(Hear, hear.) Though her Majesty's Government knew
this to be illegal, though they knew tbat those outrages
were perpetrated against their countrymen in violation
of international law and every principle of justice, were
they to be told by the Government that they found
themselves in this condition, that they cmild not back
the demand of Count Cavour, and that Sardinia must
fight this battle by herself t If, when the new facts be-
came known to the present Government, they persisted
in that course, especially when the despatch of Count
Cavour was made known to them they were as much to
blame as the late Government. He wished to know from
the right hon. gentleman whether there would be any
objection to lay on the table all the papers conneced
with this subject. He should like to have the communi-
cations that passed between the late Government and
the acting consul at Naples, between the toting consul
and the authorities at Naples and between her Majesty's
late Secretaty for Foreign Affairs and the Neapolitan
mieistry. He thought the time was come when they
should have before them all the information, so as not
to remain any longer in ignorance of the real circum-
stances of the case—(hear, hear)—that the time was
come when they should insist on putting an end to that
system of secrecy—(che,rs)—which might be well suited
to despotic governments, but which was alien to the
feelings cf a free constitution, and in consequence of
which our own international affairs were so constantly
getting into difficulties. (Hear, hear.) He thought it
right to give the Government notice that whatever they
did now this house would justly hold them as respon-
d Bible as if they were ire office six months ago--(ob, oh,
and hear, hear)—for eveey act which they now commit-
ted with a full knowledge of the real facts—as respon-
sible as if they were originallyparties to the transaction.
The house should insist on the production of all the
papers without reservation, in order that they might be
enabled to farm their opinions on the judgment they
should pronounce. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said he felt they were falling into
a discussion, or rather into a half discussion, cf a mat•
ter of immeasurable importance, under disadvantage'
which must preclude any progress—at least any satis-
factory progress towards a solution. His principal ob-
ject in rising was te express a hope that her Majesty's
Government might be inclined to accede to the request
of the right hon. gentleman who bad just spoken, and
produce the papers asked for. (Hear.) He did not
understand that any negotiations were at present in pro-
gress, he thought the aspect of the facts was such as to
make it the duty of the house to take them into their
careful consideration. (Hear, hear.) He was not pre-
pared in the present state of the information he pos-
sessed, to join with those who were prepared to cut
blame on the Government which now held office. He
thought it impossible, without a much more minute
knowledge of the facts and circumstances than the
house possessed, to paws any opinion with regard to the
celpability or blamelessness of any Government with
respect to this question. It turned very much upon
dates. It appeared that originally there was a complete
misunderstanding with regard to the facts of the ewe.
He regretted that his bon. and learned friend (Mr. Roe-
buck) entered at all into the hypothetical case, and
argued what it would be the duty of this
i Govern
to do if this vessel had been captured n Neapolitan
Thy now knew that she was not captured in
men Government
waters.e
Neapolitan waters,h whore
fault did
iwdatshaatt first supposed that
she was. From w
error arose if not from the fault, at least out of the pro-
ceedinge of the Neapolitan Government. This paint
seemed to be of essential and vital importance in the
consideration of the question ; for if the error arose out
of the prooeedings of the Neapolitan Government,
it clearly followed, as it appeared to him, that the
Neapolitan Government could not be entitled to
take any benefit whatever by its own wrong. (Hear.)
If the admissions made by the late Government
were admission' which were made when they were mis-
informed as to the facts, these admissions were net
binding on her Majesty's present advisers, and still less
on the House of Commons (Hear, hear.) But what
be trusted might prove not to have been the case—what
he trusted be should be informed not to have been the
case—was that no further admissions had been made,
because it was now a long time since they read the
account cf the despatch of Count Cavour; and be con-
fessed it was with pain, shame, and astonishment, h.
found that the duty of vindicating the law of nations--
foauftvo intoindicattihnegltahoeds of feeblerigh t s o
Sardinia, of
Englishmen—
andnoshtoouflmd mighty
England. (Hear, hear.) He trusted they should have
all the circumstances of the case before them. It wan
true our position was most unfortunate, because the
proceedings bad now reached a point that any expres-
sion of the wishes of the house might be too late, and
appear ridiculous in the face of the world—that term to
say, after the trial had been brought tope alcso::trfeeclpups:ibnoissai,;.
But, at the same time, partly with regard to these men,
rightbut
involved,m ore
andwith t
hr eegar d
question to theof ministerialp i ci
bdity, it was most impertent, in his judgment, unless it
could be shown hat public inconvenience would arise
from the contrary course, this house should be placed in
immediate and full possession of the facts (Near.) He
must say this, that, if there was any reluctance on the
part of the present government to produce the papers, it
could not be any interested reluctance, because he knew
they could not have any selfish motive in refusing them,
and if they refused to produce them, he was sure thiy
would be able to state strong reasons of public conveni-
enceli
and principle for such refusal.
none such existed, he h
request which he thought had been judiciously made by
e hear.)
to
the
the right hon. gentlemanoped they would.(ira
accede r ,
Lord PALMERSTON said the case to which the die
cussion related was one which occupied for a considera-
ble period the anxious attention of the late Government,
Iftaiohbnueed they s
nrdatany
onny ohul d
ground
fo NeapolitanG hv
their
Government
bron mee countrymen,
which
eunut ttwrmost
oyh mmi
egahnkl a.
wed
o(Slauoflmtedhae
her
demandy, a
rhoeeo
alurel
led to
upon
But
through the whole course of the transactions they were
guided by what they were told, by those who were the
best able to judge, were the principles of internationalt
law. It certainly was for a long time the opinioniittbe
these men had been captured within the
waters. But it turned out by the recent publication
was made beyond the territorial
jurisdiction
he should have
papers by the Neapolitan Government that
of
thcaePNture:
politan Government. The cirbcoutocasse
but in that they
of those most cum-
be also guided by the opinion
But that sub-
; ; on the subject.
retired from
thought,
potent to give an opinionbNliecaaPtiOn of
at the time we
ject was under consideration
the
'With regard to question respecting the lay.
might have altered t
ing ofhe
papersh hadat
do rbeemeir. n d
laidth on
the house
table last session, and, speaking from general recollect
tion of what had passed since, as fares he was concerned
thatsopmar prog r onti theof tathbele'
to saw no objection to the vr4:'lAietl 9: the correepoa