The Sun.
London, England, 1804-02-09 00:00:00

VOLUNTEERS.

Mr. Secketary YORKE began by observing, that
although what it might be necessary for, him to
state in opening the measure which he now thoUght
it expedient to propose; might 'be compressed. in-a
narrow compass, yet the subjeti was in itself so im-
portant, it had excited so much expetlation, and
so many misconceptions had gone abroad, that he
hoped the House would excuse- him for entering a
little into detail. He should begin witlaexpressing
his most eatiriest hope that Gentlemen would proceed
to the consideration of this measure with temper and
coolness. 'He was frilly-aware that Gentlemen on
all sides were equally interested in the defence of the
Country, and indeed this was not a subjed upon
which party. spirit could operate. He likewise
hoped that Gentlemen would not be inclined, in dis-
cussing this subjette to increase that clamour which
had been raised
.against the Volunteers, for what
reason he could not imagine, except that a certain
set of men, who did not wish well to the Country,
might be anxious to set the Volunteers against the.
Government, and the Government against the Vo-
lunteers, AS the most effeanal-way of answering
their own purposes. Against such persons, if there
should be any such, he wished to-put the Volunteers
upon their guard. He-also trusted that Gentlemen
would discuss this, subjed as a Whole, that they
would look at it in a general point of view as a
System, and that they would not let particular local,
inconveniencies, which they might. have -observed,
interfere with or bias their judgments in the exarni.
'nation of the system itself.. Having, made these, pre-
liminary observations, he hoped that Gentkmen
would not be disappointed if he did not propose any
thing very new-, very extraordiaary a. very eialenta's
He was
,always of opinion that temperate and made-•
rate ineasurel,.where they could be resorted to, were
the jest,; an' that they ought not to endeavour to
do too much, bat rather to do what was necessary.
Before he proceeded to state the defefts which ap-
peared to.subsist in the Volunteer. System„ and the
remedies which he meant to propose, he wished
shortly to. refer to the nature, purpose, and history
of the 'Volunteer system. With regard to the nature
and purpose, of this institution, it was not necessary.
for him to occupy much of the time of the House
to convince them that in the present state of this
Country, of Europe, and of France, we certainly
did require a larger Military -Force than had ever
heretofore been necessary, and that our Navy,
however excellent and powerful it might be,
could not be sufficient to defend an extent of
coast of little less than 2.e00 miles. Neither
did it appear ,to him that this •Country ought
to trust entirelyfor its defence to its Regular Army.
He couldnot undertake to say to what extent the Re-
gular Airily of this Country could be carried, but
though he-was readyAo admit that a Regular Army
was certainly the bestspecieS of Force, and though
he believed that our-Army, might by proper 'ma-
nagement, be carried to a greater extent than it now -
was, yet it must be obvious to every Gentleman,.
for a variety of reasons, we could not look far our
defence to a Regular. orce alone. 'The next de-
scription of Force to Regulars was the Militia
The Militia in Great Britain and Ireland amounted
at present to 90,000 men, and he did not' think that
force would adMit of any considerable augmentation.
If then it was impossible to rely entirely upon the
Regtilars and the Militia, it followed, that recourse
Must be had, to the Voluntary or Compulsory Ser.
vice of the People. This had been done by the
Laws which had been passed last Session of Parlia-
ment, which proCeeded upon this principle, that
it was necessary to obtain the command of men
without incurring any great additional expence, or
without interfering too much with the labour of the
Country. The Volunteer Institution was not a
new one ; it was first adopted at the latter end of
the American War, during the Administration of
Lard SHELBURNE, but it was not then carried to
any great extent. In the year 5794, after the un-
fortunate,Campaign upon-the Continent, the Volun.
teer system was revived, and a Bill was brought
into Parliament to enable His Majesty to resort to
the voluntary service of the People. At that time
exemptions were given to the Volunteers, and
attually made a part of the system. The number of
Volunteers who were 'enrolled last War, and who
were, as he had before stated, entitled to exemp-
tions, amounted to about.' so,ooo men. This Vo-
lunteer force was subjed to no rules but those of
thaii_own making. The Volunteer system at that
time met with general approbation, and it was
considered as affording a great degree of addi-
tional force, and 'consequently of security. to the.
Country ; and after the termination of the War,
the Parliament unanimously voted its thanks

[PRICE SIXPENCE.

to .the Volunteers for their services. So highly
was the Volunteer system then thought of,
that it was judged expedient after the. Peace to
adopt measures to adhere to the system and to
establish it upon a .permanent basis.—Aceordingly
a great part .of the. Yeomanry Corps Were kept up
during the Peace, and some of the large Infantry
Corps in different towns were retained.—When that
measure was discussed in Parliament, there was no
opposition .to it nor to theesystseas ie g*nr.,;:r.;
the present Waif broke out, it very soon became
evident that we-could exped no assistance from our
friends upon the Cnntinenr, and that the whole force
of France would he under the direCtion of a mini
equally enterprizing and ferocious.- It then became
necessary to adopt some strong measures for the
•seturity of Great Britain and Ireland—ln conse-
quence of. which the, 43,1 of GEO. 111, cap. 96, was
passed, and at that rime met with general approba-
tion, and which was aided by the spirit of the
people, . which manifested itself in a way that he
believed_ never was equalled, ,certainly not ex-
ceeded-epoo.any former occasion.—ln a very short
space of time 'a number of Volunteers started, as it
were, out.of the earth, not less than 4.00,0ci0 men.
It appeared upon an examination of the Subdivision
Rolls, that the number of men liable to be called
out, under, the first Class, appeared to be about
500,000 men, and Government were enabled to
carry the Volunteer system to the extent of 3e0,0c0
men, heemeant exclusive of Ireland. He could not
name the Volunteers of Ireland without paying a
just tribute to their Unifbrm condisd ; they had had
opportunities of shewing their loyalty and their
courage, and of setting a good example to their
brethren in England. He begged here to take no.
tice of an observation which had frequently been
thrown out, and which had been very industriously
circulated, viz, that GoVernment had checked the
spirit of the Volunteers, that they had damped the
ardour of the People. In answer to this iri of
charge he begged leave to observe, that in adopting
the Voludteer force it became necessary to fix some
limitation of numbers for very obvious reasons, and
the limitation first suggested, and the one of
which Parliament approved was, that it should not
exceed three foUrths of the first Class liable= to
be called out on. compulsory- service.• Having made
these general preliminary -observations respeding
the Volunteer System,
.he would now state the situ-
ation in which he conceived the Volunteers at pre-
sent to stand, the imperfeClions that' existed and _the
improvements that might be made in it. It appear..
ed by alate decision in the Court of King's Bench,
that. Volunteers, when not summoned out in the
case of actual Invasion or imminent danger thereof,
had a right, if they pleased,, to quit the service into
which they had entered. That decision was cer_
rtainly different front the opinion given by a Learned
and Right lion. Friend of his (the ATTORNEY GE.
NERAL) and though, in his opinion,- the Court had
determined rightly, yet he thought, that taking all
the Ads together, his Learned Friend had a great
deal of ground for the opinion he entertained. That
opinion of -his Learned Friend was founded upon
n legal deduCtion from all the Afts,- because it cer-
tainly was not the intention of Parliament to im-
pose such a restrietione and no such idea had ever
been thrown out by those who brought ih the Bills.
He certainly-was not, as he had before stated, inclined
to quarrel with the decision Of the Court of King's
Bench; on the contrary, let the law have been how it
would, if the decision had been diredly the reverse,
it was the intention of Government" to propose a
Bill, allowing Volunteers to withdraw whenever.
they thought proper, except they Were called Out.
on actual duty, in case of Invasion, or the appeat.
ante of the Enemy on the Coast. He could not be-
lieve that it would be either politic or necessary toitn;
pose any rtotriCtions 'of that kind upon the Volune
teers. It was not.politic; because he was persuaded
that, in proportion as men felt themselves to bell a
stare of coercion, they Would, in the same degree, be
.disposed to struggle against it, and wish' to free
themselves. It was not in his. opinion necessary,
because, though among, such' an immense mass of
men, some individuals might, either from good or
bad causo,.wish to withdraW themselveS from the
engagements into which they had entered, yet he
was saconvineed that the zeal, pat riotism,and energy ,
which induced the Volunteers to stand forward so
nobly in the defeaace of their Country, could not at
once forsake them, that he would never believe it till
he saw it—it was to him periedly incredible. The
only thing he was sure that would make Volunteers
anxious to Withdraw themselves, or make them feel-
uneasy in their situation, would-be to endeavour to
place them in a state of coercion. One of the most
material differences between the Volunteer Force as
it now subsisted, and that which Was established last
War, was that' the present Volunteer Force was
founded upon the Defence Act, the e insequence of
which was this, that if there Should he any defalca.
tibn in the numbers which were. deemed necessary
for the defence of the Country, the King was autho.
,ri-zed to call out the different classes under the corn.
pelsory clauses. Thia constituted a great and most
essential difference between the present Volunteer
Force, and that which subsisted in the last War.
He would now shortly advert to the present state
of the Volunteers, and to the into:en-let:ions which
either really did, or were said to ehist in that
system. One' of 'the principal objeCtions which
had been urged against the Volunteer system
was, that the number of 'exemptions which were
granted, was in many instances extremely bur.
thensome, and greatly impeded the formation of
the more Regular Forces. Upon this subject lie
begged leave-to observe, that there appeared to ex-
ist a great and very general misapprehension of the
law. A Volunteer, while serving and performing
all his duties, was not thereby exempted from the

vt' nen

k)aIlot for ale Militia, he was only exempted from
sere ing in the Militia while he continued to serve.
in 'the 'Corpse and the moment 'he withdrew himself
from the Corps, he became liable of course to the
Militia,. He could not help expressing his astonish-
ment at thee-general misapprehension of the law upon
this part of the subje& which prevailed, and which
he had had an opportunity of obseeving from a very
voluminous Cor-resportdencte which it had b-een his-,
duty to enter into. With regard to the Army of
Reserve the Law was different, for the Volunteer
was not only exempted from serving in the Army
of Reserve while he was serving in the Volunteers,'
but he was also exempted froth the Ballot. The prin-
cipal difficulties and inconveniericies of the Volunteer
System related to the Volunteers when they were dis-
embodied, that is to say, when they were not called
out upon aEtual duty' in consequence of the Invasion
of the Enemy, or his appearance on the Coast. Be.
cause, if the 'Volunteers were aftually called out in
case of either-of these events, they would of course
be under -6'l'e-rain-day Aft, and. s.ubjea to' all 'the
Atticles of War, and in that case very little would
be heard about Committees. One alledged defe&
of the Volunteer System was, that the service being
voluntary, it was impossible that Military disci-
pline could ever be carried to the extent that it was
in the Regular Army, or in the-Militia. Indeed,
it was absurd to suppose that they could be made
equal in paint of discipline to Regulars, nor did he
know that it wasdiecessary. When-the Volunteers
were first established, it certainly WAS desirable
that they should devote as much time as, possible to
training, in order to enable them to perfarm- their
ordinary &ties, and therefore every—effort was
made at first for that purpose ; but when once the
Volunteers had learned-their duty, it 'was not only
unnecessary that they should be called out so fre-
quently as they had hitherto been; but it might
even be injurious 'to the System itself to at.
tempt it. '!'he next objeaion which had heen
urged against the Volunteers was the existence
of Committees. Fie had taken' considerable pains
to examine into this subjeft, and the result of his
inquiries was this, that in some Corps there cer.
tainly were Committees ; but for what purpose ?
not to regulate the Military business of the Corps,
but fur the purpose of managing their pecuniary con-
cerns. He hoped that before any general prejudice '
was adopted about Committees, that Gentlemen
would for a moment consider the nature of the Vo-
lunteer System, and they would find that a very
great number of Corps had completely equipped
themselves 'at their own expense, by subscriptions
which they had entered into fur that pUrPose. - It
surely then could not be. a matter of astonishment,
or of blame, that they should appoint Committees
to manage the' disburseMent of their own money,
and to take care of their pecuniary concerns. This
was a measure which, in fart,, could hardly be
avoided, and it preirailed very generally doringthe
last War. He was perfeftly aware that in--some in-
stances the Committees enieavoured to interfere in
the Military'affairs of the Corps ; but wherever that
happened, it always had, and be hoped always
would be resisted. This inconvenience, however,
scch as it was, could only subsist when the Volun-
teers were in what might be called their disembb-
died state, for whenever they were called out
into inual service, :hey would be in the pay-otthe
Public, and consequently would not want Commit-
tees to manage their pecuniary
point upon.which' some misapprehensions had pre-
sailed was, the Eleftion of Officers. There was
a -very great distinftion between the Eleftion of
Officers at the first formation of a Corps, and their
choosing them whenever any vacancy might after.
wards occur. It was very natural upon the 'first
establishment of a *Volunteer Corps, in a large town
foi instance, that they should wish to put them-
selves under the command of men whose charaaer
they were acquainted with, and in whom they could
place confidence. This had always been allowed,
though the Aft of Parliament allowed of no such Elec-
tion, When an offer was made to form a Volunteer
CO'rps, the names of the Officers Were transmitted to
the LorA-Lieutenant ; if he knew of any objeClion
against any of the persons recommended, it Was in
his.' power not to transmit their names to the Se.
cretary of State ; and again, if the Secretary of
State knew of any solid objeftion against any of
them, he ought oat to lay them before His Majesty
for his approbatibn : so that in fad this claim of
eleaing Officers'amounted to nothing. He had no
hesitation in saying, that if such a claim could be
set up consistently with Law, it would by in the
highest degree dangerous, and if any Coips should
be so ill advised as to insist upon this supposed
rieht, it would be the duty of Ministers to advise
His Majesty to discontinue the services of such
Carps. He did not mean to :ssert that instances
could not be found among old Corps where such a
praClice had prevailed ; one_case in particular then,
occurred to hiM, and that was the Light Horse;
Volunteers, but this was a very old Corps,
and subsisting under particular regulations.
There might be (miler cases in which such a Hi,
vilege had been exercised, but they were in old
Corps, and. certainly not in any that had been
formed since the commencement of the present -War.
Another defeat whieh had been stated to subsist in
the Volunteer System was, that there were no
means of enforcing regularity ,of attendance and of
behaviour 'in the Members. It appeared, however,
to him, thet there were at present means of enforos:
ing them which appeared to be 'tolerably efficient.
In, case of repeated negleft of drills or field-days,
or of misbehaviour, the Commanding Officer, inde-
pendent of fines, had. it in his power to cause the
Member so misconduCting himself to be dismissed
from the Corps, 'anti as soon as he was dismissed,
he became liable-to the Militia,
.and to the Army
of Reserve.- It was equally clear, that no person
was entitled to any exemption, unless he attended
a certain number of days prescribed by Aft of Par_
!lament. It was contended that stronger measures
were necessary ; but he was very much inclined to'
doubt it.; he did not think it was part Of the system
--it certainly did not form a part of the system in
the last War. It seemed to him quite sufficient, that
if a V,olunteer did not attend 'regularly, that he was
liable to be dismissed; and to he thrown backinto.the;
gut-4.r,i a-lass of the People, liable, as hehad before
stated, to serve in the Militia, or in .the Army of
Reserve. He had now, he believed,. stated the ge.

• tad defeCls and inconveniencies that were said
tt bed:; eg to the Volunteer System. Some of them.
were inherent in the. system, and could not4be_ got
rid of without geesez it up altogether ; others cere:
tainly were. capable of remedy. But the question
was; wliether it was not-bette.t. to rake the Volon-
teer System, with all its defeas, then to .resort to
another We were now in a situation which left
us- only a choice of difficulties, and in his opinion
they were the wisest who chose that plan which was
attended with the fewest difficulties, and which was
most consonant with the feelings of the People. It
was; therefore, in his opinion, the duty of Parlia-
ment to endeavour to improve this system as far as
was 'praaicables but nor, by endeaisouring to do too
much, to run the. risk of rendering • the whole
useless. He would now shortly state the reme-
dies which might. be applied , to these various
deleas, distinguishing, between those which the pre-
rogative of the King would enable him to apply,
aid those which required 'the interference of Parlia-
ment. It appeared to him that the power vested in
the King by his prerogative, and by different Ads of
Parliament, tended to check many of the inconve-
niences which had been stated. In ihe first place,the
King had the power of making such rules and regu.
lations as he might deem necessary, to discontinue
the services of any Corps, to dismiss anyindividu.
el, or to remove any Officer that might reiscondua
himself, and in case of any defalcation in the num-
bers, he might resort to the Defence Ad, and call
out the different classee as circumstances might..re-
quire. Under these circumstances, it. appeared to
him, that a Moderate and temperate use of the pre.
togarive of the Crown, would be sufficient to get
rid of many of the inconveniences which sub.
sisred. , In - the same way with regard to the
Election of Officers, in a very few instances, where
the claim had been
_set up, it had been resist-
ed ; if ever such claims should again be set up,
the Corps must be informed that it was in an
error, and if they should be so ill advised as
still to persist, he for one should conceive. it to
be his duty tn. advise His Majesty to discon-
tinue the services of such Corps. Upon these
points, therefore, the interference of Parliament was
unnecessary, because the prerogative of the Crown
was sufficient, but Parliament might interfere to
consolidate the different
,Aas upon this subjesf,
which certainly would tend to the better understand-
ing of the Law, and wculd in every respesl be more
convenient. Another objea of the measure be meant
to propose would be to make some .regulations re.
speeting the Exemptions. At present Volunteers
were exempt from the Militia, upon exercising with
their Corps for five days, but to obtain an exemp-
tion from the Army of Reserve twenty-four days
exercise were necessary for Infantry, and fourteen
days for Cavalry. In his opinion all ought to be
put upon the same footing. He shouldeherefore
propose, that no persdn should in any case be ex-
empted from the ballot for either the Militia or the
Army of Reserve, but that he should be exempted
from serving as long as he regularly attended exec,
rise in his Corps, that any such: person who should
be ballotted for the. Militia or the Army of Re-
serve, should, upon stating that he was-upon' the
muster_roll of a Volunteer Corps, be set aside, and
be exempted from serving as long as-he continued
upon the roll, but that as soon as he withdrew from
the Corps, the Commanding Officer should transmit
his name to the Clerk of the Peace, or Deputy Lieu-
tenant, in order that he might be compelled to serve
in, or final a Substitute, for the Militia or Army. of
Reserve, according as he should happen to be drawn,
But he should,certainly propose that no exemption
should be granted to any man unless he had attend-
ed. exercise ze days in the Infantry, and le. days in
the Cavalry: He also thought that the returns
should be made oftener than once a year, and that
they should be all made at the same rime of the
year, and char in cases where a Corps might happen
not to be provided with arms, still that they should be
entitled to their exemption. He had before stated,
that if the decision which had been given in the
CoUrt 'uf King's-Bench had not taken place, he
should have proposed a Clause, allowing all Vo-
lunteers to withdraw themselves from their Corps,
except when, summoned. out on actual duty, upon
giving a notice in writing to the Commanding Offi.
cer, for the sake of notoriety ; and in case of his
having been furnished with arms or accoutrements
by Government, or by a subscription, returning
them in as perfea a state as•possible, -allowing for
reasonable wear and tear. He thought it would
also be advisable to re-enact all the Clauses that re-
late to the obligations of Volunteers when called out
into aftual duty. Upon this 'subject the Law was
perfealy clear. Whenever an Invasion happened;
or the Enemy appeared in force on the coast, all
'persons whO were enrolled were liable to assemble
and to march, if ordered, and they were to .conti-
nue so until the Enemy was defeated and driven
from the Country : these were the principal points
in the Bill which he meant to bring in, and he
hoped that Gentlemen would not be disappointed
that it did not contain any thing new or _ex-
traordinary. There were some other minor
.points which it was nor necessary then to trou_
ble the House with, except one provision, the
objea of which was to enable the Deputy Lieute..
rants, in regulating the ballots, to throw the
greatest burthen upon those places which had "pro-
ducedehe fewest Volunteers. Having thtis stated
the general outlines Of the Bill, he hoped there would
be no objeCtion to his bringing it in, and probably
. the best time to discuss it would be on the second
reading, after it :had been printed ; however that
was of course entirely at the discretion of the House.
He was, .he confessed, extremely anxious that the
Bill should be discussed with' temper and 'Modera-
tion. He trusted that the Volunteers would see
the necessity of adhering to those engagements into
which they entered at a very critical period, but.
certainly, not more so than she present. If in Au.
gust and September last the threats of the Enemy
induced every roan who valued his `King, his Coun-
try, his property, and his honour, to stand forward,
surely the present moment, when the pteparations
of the Enemy were completed, menearly so, when
we might cxpea. to be attacked in a very short
space of time, surely such was not the moment'
when English Volunteers would wish 'to with-
:draw their services. • He knew they would -be
actuated by no such feeling; nay he was convinced,

that those who might from business or other rnotiv-e;
be induced to resign, would be anxious again to I
stand forth when the hour of attack arrived, and to
shew their zeal and_ patriotism in defence of their
Couotry.
He then moved, That leave be given to bring
in a Bill to consolidate and amend the provisions
of the said several Afis made for the Regulation of
-the-Volunteer Corps."
The question being puts
1111r.,S HERID AN said, he entirely ogreed with
the Right Hon. Genii-ern-an who made -this motion,-
that this was. not the proper' time for .the general
discussion of this subjed- He should only say, a
single sentence upon it for: the present, and that
on part of what had been said by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, anti that lie should do vvithoitt any view
of entering into the orgesnent. He understooll the
Right Hon. Gentleinan* iii say,'.,that there was no
right of eledion of Officers in any of the CorPs at
all In thatihe entirely agreed. ; there could be no
such right, and any Corps' insisting on it 'would be
wrong ; but he understood the Right Hon. Gentle-
man to say, not only that there was no right of
eleCtion in such Corps; but also that no recommen-
dation of theirs would be attended to; if so, he
should like to ask the Right Hon. 'Gentleman,
where were the Commissions to originate front 1
He did not suppose that any of His Majesty's Mi.:
nisters had any idea they should originate from the
Crown, as they generally dojo the Regular Army ;
if they were not to originate from the Corps, nor
from the 'Crown", where there they to come florn ?
Ile believed that the recommendation had generally
come from the Corps, and that such recommenda-
tions had been generally attended to and acquiesced
in. 'Bat the Right Hon. Gentleman said, that if
any Corps should insist On having this recommenda-
tion from' them adopted, that he should' advise His
Majesty to dis Miss such Corps; undoubtedly that
s•
Was in the power of His Majesty's Ministers,. and
it would best' coodudfor which they would of course
be responsible ; but there was something in this
part of the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
which was not -perhaps pettedly clear. sille said,
that in the original formation of the Corps, they
were entitled to recommends—not to eled ; for Elec-
tion, it seemed, was a 'wrong word, but they were
entitled to recommend Officers according to the ori-
ginal construction put upon their body when as-
sembled ; now he wished this matterto he cautious.
ly considered, for it was essential to keep up good
faith with every' Corps. in the kingdom, for bad
faith was always attended with had consequences;
and he should wish to see.'that the Right Hon.
tletnan was right beforehe proceeded in this mat-
ter. .Care should be taken:in this patticutir, -for a
Corps may have been instituted expressly seating,
that they would.serve under' a particular Officer of
their own recommendation, and their offers of set-t
vice may have been accepted without any intima-
tion being given to them that they *should not be
allowed to continue' their- recommendation of their
Officers. The Right Horn, GetStleman said; their
recommendation should, not be attended to if they
made an improper recomMendation ; certainly not,
if it was either 'for a 'catonr, ,or Major; or any
other Officer; that was never thought to have been
right, for certainly it was always understood to be'
in the power of the Lord Lieutenant, or the Secre-
tary of State, to refuse, to follow -up that recom-
mendation ; but if they were allowed in the fist
instance to recomm-endAlieir Officers, he did not see
why their recommendation. should not be allowed to
be continued, and 'that fOr this among others reasons,
he did not see. where the recommendation could origi-
nate, if it did not originate with, the Corps. It could
not be eetpeoed from the nature of things to originate
in like. manner . as the appointments ofeOfficers in
the Regular Army oZ figinate, that was. directly from
the
ci
own_,,Leot
all should it .come from the
commandantof the Corps: There were many rea-
sous in his opinion, why the Commandant should
he the last person, who should have the rebornthen-s.
dation of alr the Officers, -but then he should ithink,
that the, approbation of His Majesty's Ministry
should always he indispensable to the appointment;
of any Officer, and so in fad it always was, and:
nobody he believed, ever contended the contrary.
He really wished this matter to be cautiously con-
sidered 'and well understood-t--He knew of One,-
instance which was a very striking, one, where a-
Corps had been raised and was commanded by an
Honourable Friend of his ;Mr. WHITBREAD) it was.
a Corps raised at Bedford by that Honourable Gen-
tleman, of whoM the Corps were:proud, and he was
also proud of the Corps—They offered their Ser.-,
vices ciplicitly on condition that they, should. be
commanded by that Gentleman, their Services had-
been
been accepted on such terms, and they also expressly
claimed the ,right of recommending others—Now
since these. Services were accepted explicitly on
these terms, goad faith Should. be .kept up with
theM, and 'indeed he had no doubt it would, and
with all other Corps, for he .was .perfediy satisified
that Ministers felt warmly for the Volunteers, as
was ipdeed very hand,soinely announced by the.
Right Hon. Gent. who had now In-might the subjefi
forward, for he had said that if the decision of the
Court of King's Bench had been otherwise -than it
was, he shoidd have proposed to alter the law in
that particular, and
:make it so that a Volunteer
might be allowed to resign, a sentiment chat was
worthy of the Gentleman who uttered it, and for
which he had no doubt the Volunteers would feel
gratitude.
Lord C ASTLEREAGH observed, that the Hon.
Gentleman who hadjust spoken, had not followed
his Right Hon. Friend very closely-in his observa-
tions upon the speech, by wthich thisssubjed was
brought before the House. ,His Right Hon. Friend
had stated what was the principle on which the. Vo.o
lunteers proceeded previous. to their existence as a
regular body, and what was to. be understood of their
power after they were ereded into, and constituted
a body. The sentiment of his Right HonoUrable
friend upon that subject was this, that a popular
eledion teas, generally speaking, contrary in prin-
ciple to that discipline which is absolutely essential
to every largemilitary force; and entertaining that
idea, his Right Hon. Friend conceived there 'was
a distindion between that which a Corps might do
previous to its becoming a Military -Body, and that
which it might do 'after it had been formed into a
Military Body. It was generally through the me.

'I

- chum or tie recommendation of the different Corps
filar their'Officers were submitted for the approba-
tion of His Majesty through the medium of the
Secretary of State ;,_but none of them should have
apprehended that they shtsolti have continued to have
these reconunendations after, they had formed into
a Military Body,. because it was a principle which
was in itself objeaionable on the ground he had
stated-e-thate of a- poptrlar eieaion, --which was un-
favourable to military discipline., In the first
instance., that_ was, before they were formed into
military 'bodsiefliere-W:i-s* no evil to be apprehend-
ed with respect todistipline; bat the case was quite
otherwise.' after they were formed into military
bodies. Having once been formed into
.a Military
Corps, it was a delicate thing to expose such a Corps
to the inconveniencies of a popular election. But
his -Right Hon. Friend had made -this diktinaions
and lie had also stated, that, although thissgeneral
military principle operated upon the minds of :His :
Majesty's Ministers, yet there were exceptions to
thine where His Majesty had been pleased to recog-;
size a custom of. chusing the. Officers by the men,
and where, that was the„case that custom should re-
main undisturbed,- for 'that was what good faith
required.; That was. .the case with some Mi-
litary Forces in .the City of London ; this
the constitution of the Military Force e•
in that and therefore 'although the 7');
of preventing Military Corps being expos*. •.o
inconvenience of a popular Ekeaion of O.
extteMely.important lobe preserved,
excepted Cases they were to be endured, ' .:.clt
cases the, principle had been relaxed, anti
Stance. experience had shown that it. might P. re-
laxed without prejudice. to the Public Safety. the
principle itself: star important, but it might be re-
laxed-, and the discretion which. governed this prin-
'ciple could not be left in bettei hands than those it
was in. at present, nainelyi in, the hands of His.
Majesty, advised as he was by his .Ministerss,
who were responsible -for the advice they gave.
--But Whatever.: might be brought forward by
his Right Honourable Friend, the House might
be assured that the principle of good faiths
would be kept entire, and adhered to without the
slightest deviation ; but having said this, he must
be allowed to say,. that :he deprecated the ::principlee:{l
as a general one,- that large bodies of:,Militarr
should be exposed to the inconveniences. of popular.
eleftion. That praaice, therefore, of confirming tO
deft Officers in all cases by the Corps, would nq.e •
do as .a.general rule. He would not, therefosr,
support the general right of a Corps to chose their
own Officers, unless upon terms in which they'
might be. allowed to do so, where their services had
been ticcepted by HiS MajestY, -or in Cases ill
'which His Majesty should be pleased to relax the
principle which prevented them from chusing their
Officers ; yet this was not. all ; for while he. •
deprecated, the praaice of Military Corpli being;
subjea to the evils of a poindar Eieftion, on account
of the effect. itmight produce upon discipline, there
were other -evils besides thoc he had hinted at, and
such-as the Corps might feel among themselves ; the/ _ -
would in Many cases be put to difficulties wleeit
they were not perhaps altogether aware of. .117 e
having, said this, he shbuld_add, that it was in,
opinion material -in the highest degree, .let
the recommendation of Officers come from v.-•haw.'
ever quarter it- may, that the feelings of the,l
who were to be commanded should be cOnsultedeati
regarded with great 'delicacy ; for, after Att[a vl3,-
lunteer . Corps could never be made to reserntne
-any '• other, Militatyl3ody, although it was dear
that they could 'never be well provided tethers
His Majesty had the general choice of those
who were to command these Corps, -for Hi 3.
Majesty alone ought, generally speaking, to have,.
the power of saying who was fit for the command 0
a -Military Force within his Dominions; this, flow':
`ever, he said, without any idea of Governmen'.
-having any breach of gd faith with any bodt
of men whomsoever ; butoo lie must again revert I°'
the distinction which was .obvious between a bcdy
of men before they are formed into a MilitazyForceil.
'and after they are formed into a Military Force, an
that what they might be permitted to do in one cal; -
had no analogy to- what they ought to- be perrniete‘,
to do in the Other ; in the one case they might have
a popular Election without any danger, because if)
the one case they did not require discipline ;to
the other, they could not have a popular• F.lccl•
•tion without danger to discipline, or in °th%,
words, in the one case they were a Civil Body's
' the other they were a 'Militaryißody.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that if it had not bej,
.for the allusion made' by his Hon. Friend (;
Sii DAN) he should perhapi tint have said art,i6
thing at present upon the. subject now before t`l
, House, but he thought it necessary to say a le'4,
words on the- subjea of the different Corps chus3l
their own Officers, as stated by the Noble Lord an
the Right Hon. Qentletnan, but particularly on that
• which was 'stated 'by the 'Right Hon. Gentleman,
who had informed the House-of the advice he should,
give to HIS -Mist Esirv, in the event of any Al
tary Corps persisting in the choice of its ov190:
eels. He was more desirous of adverting to the 5-010. '
rinienrs of the Right Von. Gentleman; as they catsic
from himself; titan to the .explanation of the No",,e
Lord. That Right Hon. Gentleman had said, that
any Corps should persist 'in the right of recommendit
to .His Majtisty its• Officers, to command them, that"
should advise His Majesty to dismiss that Corps---.
'that he should advise His Majesty, in the first it;
stancej.not to. listen to.such re-commendation; and, t
the second, to dismiss such Corps if they should per;
sist in such recommendation. This, he apprehended''
was much too general. The terms of the Corps whteo
he had the honour to command were,-that they shoPt.
serve under Officers specifically named by them ; nee
only so, but also such as theYmay recommend hereafC4
to His Majesty, through the medium-of the Ioi„,
Lieutenant of the County.
__Their sersqe7
were- accepted' after they sent in these lefernel
nor were the terms in the least degree quaili'd,
accept when the service of this Corps was aC_
,If they had- been told that they should not• tkif
this choice or-: recommendation; not only of "'a;
present Commander but also of two other , )
that they should not be allowed to continue toll 3 ty.
that reCommentlation, he realFa' apprehended that
ha
• •
such Corps as that which he alluded to would -iv •
been formed at all ; now Officers, .
he should like to aSk;

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