The Sun.
London, England, 1858-02-19 00:00:00

identity of circumstances exists which would justify the
inference on which the noble lord laid such stress.
Nor, when the noble lord enters into the causes of the In-
than revolt, and finds arguments in it in favour of legisla-
tion, can I forget that when last year I asked the house to
inquire into this subject no one was so strong, I might
even say so violent, as the noble lord in impressing upon
the house that until the insurrection was completely put
down it was idle to investigate its causes, and that all the
energy of the country ought to be devoted to its suppres-
sion. Sir, I have long been of opinion that it was a mat-
ter of high policy that the relations between the sovereign
of these realms and the inhabitants of India should be
drawn more nearly and rendered more direct. I have for
a long time been persuaded that by such a consummation
the administration of India must be greatly improved, and
that such a change would be the precursor of benefits to
the population of that country, and indeed to the popula-
tion of our own, which it would be difficult to exaggerate.
In examining the 'question that is now brought before us,
and in bringing my powers of investigation to the measure
of the Government; I at least am influenced by no preju-
dice, because the bias of my mind—and none of us can
consider a question of such magnitude free from bias—
would rather be in favour of the object sought to be ob-
tained by the proposition of the Governreen le Nor, Sir, as
we have heard a great deal of patty feeling, could Ibe at
all influenced in considering this question by any such
feeling in regard to the proposer of the amendment. It is
an honour that I deeply appreciate that I enjoy the ac-
quaintance, and I hope I may add the friendship, of the
hon. member for Huntingdon (Mr. T. Baring). It was,
however, only recently, at the end of the last session, that
my hon. friend informed the house, and not for the first
time, that he regretted to say, upon the subject of India,
that my views and his own sex loin agreed. Therefore,
when I come to ask myself what course I ought to
pursue upon this question, I feel that I am approach-
ing it without prejudice, and until the arguments that
have satisfied my mind are answered I shell believe that
the coarse which I shall take is also the most prudent
for the house to adopt. If I had thought that a change in
the direction recommended by her Majesty's Ministers was
one that would draw the relations between the inhabitants
of this country and India nearer—if I thought that it
would greatly improve the condition of the inhabitants of
that country—l must still express my opinion that the
operation and result of the measure of the Government
would produce is both instane.s quite a contrary effect.
Before we come to the vote I must ask the house to con-
sider the influence which the vote they are asked to adopt
will have on the finances of this country. I have not heard
that question clearly put in the course of this debate, but
it appears to me to be one, not only of the greatest import-
ens; but also extremely pressing and imminent. We have
had on several occasions a controversy on the identity be-
tween English and Indian finance, and I believe the gsneral
opinion is, that although it will not be possible ultimately
to disconnect them, yet that the means by which they will
1 be inseparably united will be a gradual and slow process.
Let me remind the house of the bill now on the table for
, raising money for the service of India, and of the effect op
our finance and upon Indian finance of the proposal of the
Government. It is idle any longer to distinguish between
English and Indian finance. If the President of the Indian
Council—a Queen's Minister in Downing-street—should
find it necessary to raise money by a public loan to pay
her Majesty's troops in India, it will be idle, when the
divinends are due upon that loan, to pretend to assert that
he will be able to say, if the means are not at hand, " The
exchequer of India is empty, and the revenue of India is
alone liable." (Ile ar.) Every gentleman will feel in his own
mind, that such a distinction as this between the finances
of India and England cannot be retained for a moment,
and titat a blow upon British credit at its very source,
and where the tide is highest, will be infallible and in-
evitable, if such a plan can be urged by a British
Minister. (Hear, hear.) Before we agree to the in-
troduction of this bill I ask the house to consider
what are the financial relations at this moment between
England and India. Sit, we have official documents
upon the table that show at this moment a chronic deficit
in India of about 2,000,0011. sterling per annum. We have
a paper—l do not know whether it is official, but it is au-
thentic, and it is generally circulated—which shows that
next year there will be in India 92,000 of her Majesty's
troops—that is to say, 52,000 of her Majesty's troops in
excess of the estimates to which we are so long accustomed
and which we may consider the routine finance of India.
You can't on an average put down your reeiments of artil-
lery, cavalry, and infantry at leas than 90,040/. a-piece, and
you must estimate the cost of these 52,000 troops at a sum
of between 4,000,0001. and 5,000,0001. sterling. Of course,
you are to deduct the expense of your Bengal Army, which
is now abolished, but that expense is only one moiety of
that sum of 4,000,0001. or 5,00 000/. Therefore, when you
are adopting the government and the liabilities of India,
which you are now asked to do without consideration, you
are adopting a chronic deficit of at least 4,000,0001. ster-
ling. (Hear.) I beg the house to observe that I have put
the case without reference to the consequences of the late
and present disturbance to the revenue of India. The defi-
cit of the Indian revenue will be 10,000,0001. this year. I
am throwing this extraordinary influence and result out of
the estimate, but I take the clear deficit which for several
years has regularly accrued. lam adding to it the inevi-
table increase of expenditure caused by this force, which
must maintain your authority in India, and I tell you you
will have to deal immediately with an Indian deficit of
between 4,000,0001. and 5,000,0001. What, then, is the
position of this country ? Have we a surplus 'avenue of
such an amount that we can look forward with calmness
and composure to a proposal of this kind, and a to policy
that entails such responsibility ? The Chancellor of the
Exchequer has not yet told us the state of our finances.
It is a communication that cannot be long delayed, and
will be an addition to those nights of interest
which the present session promises to produce.
I do not presume to form an accurate estimate of that
statement, but I would not take 7,000,0001. to pay
the British deficit that will be introduced to us by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer in the course of a month.
(" dear, hear," and a laugh.) You are not, therefore,
merely doing a sentimental act, and changing the Govern-
ment of a country by an aye or no, but the question is, are
you prepared to entail upon the Minister of Finance an
immediate deficit of 11,000,0001. or 12,000,000/. sterling ?
(Hear.) The House may rely upon it that this will be the
consequence of the act which it is so lightly called upon to
sanction, and which so many of its members are so care-
lessly prepared to ratify. Before the Horse !of Commons,
before the people of England incur such a responsibility,
they ought to make themselves wasters of the resources of
India—(hear, hear)—they ought to make themselves mas-
ters of the means by which the revenue of that country is
raised and the expenditure controlled. That shows how
completely we have in this business begun at the wrong
end. (Hear,) India is not governed in Cannon-row or in
Iseadenhall-street; it is governed in Calcutta. (Hear.) If
you pass an act of this kind which, by a phrase, seems to
change the Government of India, you will, without acting
upon the more distant and real Government, entail upon
, this country all the consequences of the policy and the
engagern• its of the Government in India, while, in fact
you will have no control whatever over the system which
prevails in that country. Yon will find that when you
have passed this bill you will have less means of governing
1 India than by the somewhat roundabout system which
exists you even now obtain. (Hear.) What is the real
Government of India? If you were to form your opinion
from the bill which the noble lord has described you would
imagiue that the Government of India depended upon a
few individuals living in England, receivingpnblic salaries,
and obeying the dictates and commands of a Minister of
State ; but the Government of India is something vary dif-
ferent. The Government of India has, in the first place, to
deal with the rising of an immense revenue, which is not a !e-
-quate to the expenditure,and unless, when you take u on
yourselves the pecuniary responsibilities of India, you at the
same time take measures by which you can appropriate and
prudently manage the resources of that country, all that
you will oMain by the bill which the GOvernment now
asks permission to introduce—all that you will obtain will
be that you will have to supply the deficiencies of a distant
Government over which you will have no control, and the
course of whie, as I shall show you, will inevitably aggro,•
vote all those injurious consequences which you imagine
that by this you are going to terminate. What you want
is a total change of the system of administration in India.
You want to put an end to the expenditure which pro-
duces deficits. You want a power that will examine your
relations with native princes ; you want a power that will
examine the means by which your revenue is raised, which
will examine into the tenure of land, and which will bring
native capital, which is abundant, to the cultivation of that
laud. You want all these things, and without them the
' revenue of India cannot expand. Remember what that
revenue is. You have heard it before, but it was not a
matter of the slightest interest to the House of Commons
or to the country, because they were not responsible for the
engagements which upon that revenue were entered into
by the persons in pow'er. The revenue of India is princi-
pally raised from the land by a means which pauperises
the country, and under which all those who are acquainted
with it agree that that revenue cannot increase. That re-
venue is also made up from a precarioas and not very hon-
ourable source. These things, managed with great talent
and discretion by a particular service organised for that
object, and whose existence depended upon the raising of
the revenue, have with,great occasional disadvantages and
deficiencies worked pretty well ; but it will bo quite diffe-
rent when the credit of England and the credit of India are
perfectly identical. If once the deficiency in India is to be
supplied by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the House
of Commons, no one will have any great interest in the
prudent ruauagement of the resources of that country.
(Hear, hear.) I say again, you are beginning at the wrong
end. You ought to have adopted the course which I took
the liberty of recommending last year. When you had
put down the Xabellion you ought to have sent to India a
Royal commission with plenary powers. It would have
been for that connnission to investigate the great questions
to which I have referred P • it would have been for that com-
mission to revise and establish your relations with native
princes, and to organise and construct your forces which
never can be formed of the crude material to which the
noble lout has referred. You will have to raise a large
native force, and upon the manner and upon the system
in which that force is raised the pecuniary disposition of
India will mainly depend. That commission ought to have
inquited whether the 'tenure of land, upon which all de-
pends, might not be modified beneficially for all parties ;
and then when you had made yourselves, when the coun-
try had made itself master of the situation, then it would
have been high time to consider whether formally and
completely in the metropolis the change should not have
been carried out which would transfer the supreme autho-
rity in India to her Majesty. At present we are undertak-
ing an immense liability ; we are entering into engagements
which will some day make us tremble, and we have no
security whatever that those who really possess power in
India, who really manage the resources of that country,
will be in the least controlled for our benefit, or will so
manage those resources, or exercise that authority, that
the proposed arrangeuient shall not produce increased
evils. Let me ask the house to consider how this measure,
if carried, will act as regards the real government in
India. Let us for a moment assume that this bill, as de-
scribed by the noble lord, has passed both heusas of Par-
liament and received her Majesty's assent. We shall have
a president of India, and a council of eight nominees.
Now, sir, when in 1853, I, in company with my noble
friend the member for King's Lynn (L'rd Stanley), im-
plored the house not to hasten to a settlement of this
question, but to enter into a full examination before they
decided upon the government of India, we had before us e
proposition that one-third of the directors should he
Government nominees. To that proposition I raised au
objection which I thought was never answered. It ap-
peared to me that if there were to be directors or members
of council nomin 'led by the Crown, they ought, above all
things, to be independent— (hear, hear)—and I could not
see how that independence could be obtained unless they
were permanent. There seemed to be for independence and
knowledge two qualities which were indispensable, no se-
curity but permanency. (Hear.) That I thought a vital
objection to the Bill of 1853, and if it were a vital objection I
to that bill by which only one-third of the directors or
councillora were to be Government nominees, what shall
we say of a proposition according to which all the members
of the council are to be nominees ? (Hear.) How will this
work? What will be the inevitable course, the influence
Which it will exercise upon the real government, of