The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-05 00:00:00

EDUCATION.

Lord J. RINSELL gave notice that he should to-
morrow ask a question relative to the appointment of a
Royal Commission in connection with national,"educa-
tion agreed to by the house on a former occasion.

_
EAST INDIA (SUMS REPAID).
Sir F. BARING moved for a return of the sums re
paid by the East India Company in the year 1857-58,
and of the manner in which such sums have been appro-
priated.—Agreed to.
LOANS, ag., TO FOREIGN STATES.
.... _ _ .

Mr. J. EWART moved for an account of all sums of
money paid or advanced by way of loan, subsidy, or
otherwise, to any foreign State, from the year 1854 up
t the present time, arranged a;phabetically, showing the
total amount now owing by each (in continuation of Par-
liamentary Paper, No. 466, of Session 1854).—Agreed
to.

THE MILITIA.
Capt. GRAY asked the Secretary for War what were
the intentions of Government in regard to the regiments
of militia now at Aldershot, and whether such regiments
as had been furnished with the Enfield rifle would be
continued in an embodied state for such a length of time
as would afford them a fair opportunity of being brought
to a state of efficiency in the use of that weapon.
General PEEL said it was not the intention of her
Majesty's Government at present to disembody any
more regiments of militia. I3e bad no doubt those regi-
ments of militia who had been supplied with the Enfield
rifle would have an opportunity of perfecting themselves
in the efficient use of that weapon. (Hear, hear.)
WESTERN BANK OF SCOTLAND.
_ _ _

Mr. BRADY asked the Lord.Advoeate, if the direc
tors of the Western Bank of Scotland had forfeited (in a
legal geese) the right they possessed to circulate bank
notes by the failure of the bank ; if so, was it the inten-
tion of the government to institute an inquiry into the
circumstances connected with the failure, with the view
of granting for the benefit of the shareholders, a power
to said directors to sell the privilege they possessed !
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in the
absence of the Lord Advocate, said he was informed by
that gentleman that the directors of the Western Bank
of Scotland bad forfeited the right they possessed to
circulate hank-notes ; and further, he had to state that
it was not the intention of her Majesty's Government
to assist the directors in auy way to dispose of the pri-
♦ilege they possessed. (Hear, hear.)

SPECIAL MISSION TO PORTUGAL.
Mr. WHITE asked the Under Secretary for Foreign
Affairs whether a special mission was about to be sent
to Portugal ; and, if so, whether the Marquis of Bath
had been appointed her Majesty's Plenipotentiary to
that Court ; and, if so, whether the Government was
prepared to lay on the table of the house the probable
amount of the expense of such mission '4

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a
special mission was about to be sent to Portugal, and
that the Marquis of Bath had been appointed her Ma-
jesty's Plenipotentiary at that Court. With regard to
the expense, when the proper time arrived the expenses
incurred would be laid on the table of the house for the
purpose of being defrayed.
MARRIAGE WITH A DECEASED WIFE'S
SISTER.
Mr. SCHNEIDER asked the Secretary for the Colo-
nies whether her Majesty's Government had received
from the Governor of South Australia a copy of a law
passed by the Legislature of that colony in the year
1357, for legalising marriage with a deceased wife's
sister, and whether the Government intended to advise
her Majesty to give her sanction thereto !
Lord STANLEY said a copy of the law referred to
bad been received by her Majesty's Government, but as
some legal difficulties were supposed to have arisen in
reference to it, it had been referred to the legal advisers
of the department for the colonies, but their report had
not yet been received.

NEW FOREIGN OFFICE.
Sir J. SHELLEY asked the First Commissioner al
Worke, whether the Government had determined upon
the erection of a new Foreign Office ; and, if so, who
was to be employed as the architect I Also, whether the
materials recently deposited in the vacant space near
Downing-street, were intended for the erection of any
public building !
Lord J. MANNERS said her Majesty's Government
had not yet determined on building a new Foreign-
effiee, and consequently no architect had been selected.
The materials in Downing-street belonged to the Metro-
politan Board of Works, and were to be need in altera-
tions in Victoria-street.
POLICE FORCE (IRELAND).
Captain ESMONDE asked the Chief Secretary for
Ireland, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's
Government to bring in a bill for the regulation of the
metropolitan police force (Ireland) this session I
Lord NAAS said he hoped to be able to introduce
such a bill in a few days.
MEDITERRANEAN, &c., TELEGRAPHIC
COMMUNICATIONS.
Mr. CRAWFORD called the attention of the house
to the question of the extension of telegraphic commu-
nications in the Mediterranean, and with her Majesty"
dominions in the East ; and ho moved an address for
certain papers, &c.
Sir W. FRAZER called attention to the inaccuracies
in the telegrams received from India.
Mr. HAMILTON said telegraphic communication in
India was in its infancy, but ho would give directions
that the greatest care should be taken in forwarding the
telegrams cor-ect es p)sBible.
resolution was agreed to.
BALL
AND TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND)
BILL.
Mr. WHITESIDE, in moving for leave to introduce
a bill to facilitate the sale and transfer of land in Ire-.
il an ne
rde, ai d
r.g the subject importance. In
one of considerable and dB,
England they had " hands
books " written to make the
sof real property fAmili a.
to the public, and letters addressed ingenious counse
to John Bull,litnpressing
upon himd by
the necessity of sim-
plifying in
fying the laws relating to land
England
country. But
while theories had been started in
the questiob
::;:quer!c.
kad assumed a practical shape in Ireland is
of the circumstances in the history of that country
were now painful reminiscences. The confusionyortlit'lcel.:
and embarrassment consequent upon it, the encum-
brance upon land in the country, threw upon the Court
of Chancery an enormous amount of business, which a'
last that tribunal became unable to dispose of. By the
returns which had been laid before Parliament it ap-
peared that there were nearly 1,000 chancery suits, in

most of which the rights of the parties had been fully
ascertained and declared, but in which it was found im-
possible to realise the fruits of a decree, for, in fact, dif.
ficulties only commenced after a decree had been pro.
nounced. It was stated in one of the little tracts to
which he had alluded—one written by Mr. Williams—
that the idea of the Encumbered Estates Court was sug-
gested by Mr. Christy, an eminent conveyancer, but
he (Mr. Whiteside) understood that the suggestion was
made to Sir R. Peel by the present Lord St. Leonards.
However, they bad now to deal with the Court and its
practical operation in Ireland. The Encumbered Estates
Act at first was limited to encumbered estates. All par-
tial interests, leases for less than 60 years, were excluded.
Very speedily, however, the court constituted under the
act swallowed up a large portion of the business of that
the of Chancery, and at last it became obvious
the court would soon resemble the Court of Chancery,
and would be reduced to the condition of that Court be-
fore the transfer of the business. Accordingly, in 1855,
a commission was issued to inquire into the practical
operaticonemomfietehieeuEnecautm
ibaerDedehElinst,ataeed Estates Act in
alrreelapnedrt.
That
which was not satisfactory to some members, and the
report itself was submitted to a committee of that house.
That committee, upon which were several of the most
distinguished members of the house, presented its report
in June, 1856. Meantime, the subject had begun to at-
tract public attention in this country, and the Encum-
bered Estates Court was continued by a bill passed from
year to year. The present Continuance Act would soon
expire, and th© question now to be considered was what
course should be taken upon this subject. He had heard
it rumoured that the late Government contemplated a
measure, but after a diligent search in the office, he had
not bean able to find any trace of such a plan. Therefore
whatever might be the defects of the measure which he
now asked leave to introduce, the present Government
was wholly answerable for them, and if there should be
any merit in it the merit would be entirely due to them.
The first point which he had to consider in dealing with
the subject was whether be should bring forward a mere
continuance bill or whether, with the ample materials
already in his possession, he should endeavour to submit
a plan permanent in nature and comprehensive in prin-
ciple. He thought it would be more respectful to the,
house to take the latter course. The princ.ple of the En-
cumbered Estates Court was to confer a Parliamentary
title upon the purchasers of land. The committee that
sat in that house differed in opinion on some important
principles, but the majority
.of them decided that the
principle of the Encumbered Estates Act should be ex-
tended to unencumbered estates. In that state the pre-
sent Government found the question, and it was desir-
able to consider what oughtnow to be done. It was im-
portant to draw the attention of the house to the fact
that the sales in that court had gradually and in a re-
markable way diminished. It appeared from a return
which he held in his band, that in the first year of the
existence of the court 1,085 petitions were presented to
it ; in 1851, 801 ; in 1852, 508 ; in 1853, 488 ; in
1854, 414 ; in 1855, 362 ; in 1856, 273 ; in 1857, 226 ;
and from August, 1857, to March, 1858, 145. It was
also interesting to observe what had been the case with
reference to the presentation of petitions during
the last three mon' hs. It appeared that in Feb. 17 pe-
titions were presented ; in March, 18 ; and in April 10
or 20 at the most. There was an apprehension at one
time that the Court for the Sale of Encumbered Estates
would become worse than the Court of Chancery. The
original staff having consisted of two judges, it was
deemed advisable to add a third. One of these was a
very learned person, a baron of the Exchequer. The
commission considered that that learned person could
not discharge the duties of a commissioner and a judge
at the same time. The noble lord at the head of the late
Government gave a pledge that he should be restored to
the Court of Exchequer ; and the right hon. gentleman
the member for Stroud (Mr. Horsman), then Chief Se-
cretary for Ireland, very much to this honour, recom-
mended a gentleman holding different p slitical opinions
from those of the late Government, but eminently qua-
lified for the place he now filled, as chief commissioner
of that court. Since the appointment of that gentleman
the arrear of business before the court, whatever it was,
had been cleared away altogether, and therefore the
house was now in a condition to deal with the court, in
which there
-was a staff consisting of three commissioners
and a master, or fourth commissioner in disguise—that
was to say, four judges of eminent abilities—before each
of whom there now came only four petitions a month.
It might be asked, what did the Government propose to
de with the question of the sale and transfer of land ?
He answered, that the question of a Parliamentary title
had been established by the experience of nine years in
Ireland to be highly satisfactory to the people of that
country. (Cheers) It had been shown that few, if
any, dangers or inconveniences resulted from the con-
ferring of that title on the proprietors of encumbered
estates, and it was now proposed to confer it on the pro-
prietors of encumbered estates. (Cheers.) It was a
1 fallacy to suppose that in Ireland any danger would re-
sult from it, for the old Registry Act in force in
that country since the time of Queen Anne conferred
on the registered owner of an estate a statutable
title against any title or legal instrument of a prior date
which he did not find on the register. It was clearly
proved before the committee to which he had adverted
that encumbrances were created on property in Ireland
for the sole purpose of bringing the property so encum-
bered within the practical operation of the Encumbered
Estates Act—(hear, hear)—and of obtaining a Parlia-
mentary title, which would remove difficubise and em-
barrassments previously affecting the title. If those
facts were true, and if it was clear that no greater risk
would be run from extending the principle of a Parlia-
mentary indefeasible title to unencumbered prop-rty
than to encumbered property, it was obvious that a
principle which applied to the one case ought to be ap-
plied to the other ; and, accordingly, it was contem•
plated by this bill to extend that principle to unencum-
bered estates. (Cheers.) But there were many other
cases that ought to be provided for, and he bad felt that
the measure should be undertaken in a comprehensive
spirit. It was, therefore, proposed to bring all judicial
sales in Chancery within the application of a like prin-
ciple. It should be recollected that there were sales in
the Bankruptcy Court and sales in the Insolvency
Court, and when the judges of those courts were asked
in the Commission which sat in Dublin whether they
would confer a Parliamentary title on property sold in
the Bankruptcy and Insolvent Courts, each answered
that he would not ; but they admitted that the Encum-
bered Estates Court might confer an indefeasible title,
which they themselves did not dare to do. It had been
stated in Parliament that generally sales in the Bank-
ruptcy or Insolvency Court produced little or nothing,
the property being usually bought in by a friend of the
bankrupt or insolvent, and the creditors failed to re•
ceive the benefit of a bona fide sale in open market. It
Was therefore proposed to include all sales of pro-
perty in the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Courts within
the operation of the bill. He must remind the house
that this bill would enable A. B. to sell an estate to
B. C., without waiting for a decree of Chancery. Any
person, without the intervention of a Chancery suit.
might go before this Court, to be called the Landed
Estate Court, and there make out his title and sell
his estate if he thought fit. He had submitted to the
house a plan by which facilities would be given to the
sale and transfer of land ; and then arose the question
what was to be done in the case of owners of property
who did not wish to sell, but whose titles were a source of
confusion and embarrassment, and to whom it would be
a great boon and blessing to have those titles adjudicated
upon, so that, though they did not intend to sell their
land at the moment, they might have the power to sell
or lease it in future. This was a large step in advance,
and he frankly admitted that it was not essential to the
principle of this measure or to its purpose. But just as
it had been shown in the case of the Encumbered Es-
tates Court that persons entered into encumbrances in
order to bring their property within the jurisdiction of
that court, so it was obvious that if this bill did not pro-
vide for the case of owners of estates who did not wish to
sell, they would enter into contracts with the sole view
of enabling them to take advantage of the machinery of
the court which it established. (Hear.) This matter bad
been investiga'ed by a commission, with which his right
hon. friend the Home Secretary was conneeteil, and there
was a passage in the able report which his right hon.
friend had drawn up which he would read to the house.
The commissioners, in relation to the registration of
titles and the transfer of land, drew a distinction between
the facilities afforded for those purposes in Eceland and
Ireland, their object being to ascertain, if possible, a
method by which land might be transferred with as much
ease as stock—a great problem to the solution of which
his right hon. friend had directed his great talents ; and
he (Mr. Whiteside) would only remark that if the object
to which his right hon. friend had devoted his time and
attention could be carried into effect, it would be the
greatest and most beneficial change in the law of real
property that had ever been effected. (Hear, hear.)
He was not at present concerned with that exten-ive
project of his right honourable friend, except only as it
nowref read,
referred to, Ireland, and the passage which he would
desirous provision
te
s o
sell,
ll
he might state, had laid the foundation of
thatthe bill which related t 3 owners
not
, but anxious to obtain adjudication
upon their titles. (The right hon. gentleman here read a
passage from the report, which state I that in Ireland the
land valu
eamtd i
aotcnhh,
ei theoe
ry Encumberedfregionor sterffaetci
tiEn
gsotafa
et dehaeaendcgsee,
eitrnht,ethOfeerrpdnrnei
sail
hi:
ene
det
sseyuxsrctveelemly:n, atand afforded far great facilities fur that purpose
than existed in England.) The statements in that pas-
sage established conclusively to his mind that the opera-
tion of the registry of theclP' survey,the
general Ordnance
general valuation, and the Encumbered Estates Court
enabled them safely to extend the principle he had laid
ilown in the case of proprietors who did not wish to sell,
but who were anxious to possess an indefeasible title to
their land. The next proposition he had to submit re-
lated to the Court which was to be permanently eetale•
fished for the purposes he bad named, and the first thing
• bey had to consider et as its staff. It was prove ! before
the committee that with the three comrnitsioners sitting
together there WhR, in point of fact, two dais lost in the
week, and that the labour would b 3 much better per-
formed by each individual sitting alone, and astir g on
so, and having sati,_
fiheied etwhen hroeuspseonsbiybiltihtye.
rle'thuartnsbehmeg bad quoted that the
number of petitions had so greatly diminished, it fol-
lowed that when they permanently established !hi+ court
they might safely make it consist of two judges, instead
ef three. (Hear.) It was believed that two judges sAttng
clone each day in the week would be amply sufficient,
cud do, in fact, more than three judges had done under
a less advantageous system. (Hear.) It was likewise
proposed that there should be an appeal direct!y
from each judge to a court of appeal in Ireland,
consisting of the Lord Chancellor and the Lords
Justices, one of the best courts of appeal that could
be devised in that country. He had spoken of the
Masters who, it was contemplated, should be the com-
missionersin the court—Mr. Mastley and Dr. Long-
ld,it would be for the house to consider what was
to be
done with the third commissioner of the
Present
court—that excellent public officer, Mr. liar-

grieve. He was taken from this country to Ireland, and
he was bound to say that, though he bad heard complaints
of certain things in the Encumbered Estates Court, he
never heard a single complaint of that gentleman. He
had been a most impartial, punctual, and laborious judge;
and if the Home Secretary carried out his great scheme
for facilitating the transfer of land in this country there
was scarcely a gentleman in the profession better fitted
to be employed than Mr. Hargreave. In the meantime,
till he received some office suited to his position, he
would receive the full salary to which he was now en-
titled. (Hear, hear.) The office of master was created
under a mistake. He doubted indeed the authority to
create such an office. That office of 10001. a-year was
bestowed upon a gentleman highly competent to dis-
charge its duties. But the office of Master of the Court
of Chancery had been abolished, and here was a master
created forthe Encumbered Estates Court when the office
had been exploded in Chancery. The committee which
sat upon the court admitted thatthis was an abuse. The
principal of the court was thus enabled to shuffle the la-
bour and responsibility upon the master, and to leave
him to do the duty which the principal ought to do him-
self. It was proposed by the bill to abolish this office,
and the gentleman holding it was, by a clause in the bill,
recommended tolthe liberal consideration of the Treasury.
Whatever the Treasury might consider the present offi-
cers entitled to—such portion of them at least as were
not required for the working of the new tribunal—he, at
least, should not grudge them. He bad now to deal with
the financial part of the plan. The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer bad told them that they ought to economise in
Ireland where they could. That was very good advice if
it could be carried out. The house bad already paid for
this court not less than 133,0001., to which he might add I
the sum of 10,0001. voted for the erection of new buildings
in which the court were to sit. Every estimate of the ex-
penses of this court had been on the increase. The court
began with 4,0001., and the estimate gradually rose to
15.0001., finally stopping at 18,0001. He thought it quite
right, however, that the estimate should be reduced this
year by the sum of 2,0001. The proposition which he
had to submit was one by which it was hoped the vote
for the expenses of the court would disappear altogether
from the estimates of that house, (Hear.) This pro-
posal was made by her Majesty's Government with
satisfaction. In the first place, the circumstances of
Ireland wore altered. Ireland was a great country,
with resources now in a rapid course of development,
and that a course of this nature should be permanently
established at the expense of the House of Commons
was a proposal that he had not the courage to make. It
must be remembered that this was a court which would
increase the value of the land on sale, which gave a per-
manent title, which increased the facilities of the trans-
fer of land, and which secured the purchaser in peace-
able possession. There could surely be no difficulty in
raising, by simple means, a fund sufficient to recoup the
consolidated fund for the expenses of such a court.
(Hear.) The tales during the last three years were very
great. In 1856 the purchasers of estates of the value
of 5,0001. and under were 1,098 ; above 5,0001. and
under 10,0001., 265; above 10,0001., 23. The gross
total produce of sales in 1856 was 2,580,4071. In 1857
the number of purchasers under 5,0001. was 1,171 ;
above 5,0001. and under 10,0001., 238 ; above 10,0001.,
16. The total number of purchasers was 1,425, and the
meant of sales 2,140,8101. Last year the purchasers of
estatee of the value of 5,0001. and under were 1,402 ;
above 5,0001. and under 10,0001., 182 ; above 10,000/ ,
26. The number of purchasers alt Tether was 1,610,
and the produce of sales was 2,185,2601. It was not be.
lieved that the sales in the next few years would repre-
sent a less amount of purchase money, because there was
now a rental of 200,0001. a-year for sale. The purchase
money, however, produced by sales varied very much.
A large estate belonging to the Thomond family was for
sale ; among he purchasers were many farmers, who
appeared in the Encumbered Estates Court, who were
very noisy and angry when they were outbid, but who,
notwithstanding their vexation, bought a great deal
of land at 30 years' purchase. A small property
for sale in Fermanagh county fetched 34yeare' purchase.
It was not to be endured that the State should undertake
the great task of simplifying titles at its own expense.
(Hear.) The purchaser would have nothing to do with
it. He would pay his money and take his deed, but
when their money was lodged in the court he proposed :o
deduct a very moderate poundage—viz., i per cent. on
sums under 5,0001.; i per cent. on sums under 10,0001.;
and 1 per cent, on sums above 10,0001. It was com-
puted that such a poundage would yield 18,0001. a-year.
But that was not the only fund upon which he relied.
Besides abo'et 1,500,0001. invested in securities, the ave-
rage cash balances in the Bank of Ireland were :—ln
1852, 807,0001.; 1853, 1,110,0001.; 1854, 1,146,0001;
1855, 1,052,0001.; 1856 (the court having begun to in-
vest more, and to leave less with the bank), 757,0001.;
and 1857, 603,821/. The gains of the bank were esti-
mated at 40,0001. a-year ; he believed the court would
easily make 7,0001. or 8,0001. a-year. If a gentle hint
were given to the bank that unless a moderate per cent-
age were allowed on the deposits they would not have
them, the directors, with the good sense which they
possessed, would come to terms and gihe what was asked.
The expenses would thus.be met he two ways—partly by
a moderate deduction from the amount of purchase-
money, and partly by interest allowed for the use of the
cash balances. The whole burden of the reconstructed
court would be thrown on the consolidated fund, and the
funds provided by the two modes he had mentioned would
be paid into the consolidated fuud. He proposed that
course in con, equence of the experience derived from the
Suitors' Fee Fund. The Suitors' Fee Fund was formed
by appropriating 200,000/. or 300,0001 belonging to
suitors in the Court of Chancery who bad not claimed
the money, and the interest was to be applied to cover
the expenses of the court. But whenever a new place
was made or an old servant superannuated, the cost
was thrown upon the fund, with a proviso that, in
the event of the Stotors' Fee Fund not producing a
sufficient amount, it was to be paid out of the consoli-
idated fund, which never failed. (Hear, hear.) The
consequence was that under the outward appearance of
charges on the Suitors' Fee Fund the consolidated fund
bad to bear upwards of 16,0001. a-year more than the
former produced. It led to a complication of accounts,
therefore his proposal was to pay everything out of and
into the consolidated fund, and to keep an account of
what was paid iu, that any balances over the expenses
of the court might be known and made applicable to
paying any new officer or to pensioning officers who had
efficiently served in the court. He hoped to give to the
proprietors of land iu Ireland another very great boon.
The costs of the Encumbered Estates Court, particularly
for surveys and maps, were enormous. An arrangement
had already been made as to the maps, and he confidently
believed an arrangement could be made whereby the ex-
penses of the court could be reduced. in other particulars
50 per cent. Therefore, while giving a Parliamentary
title to the owner of an estate, they would reduce the
aexs ppeonsseei sof h b
le .
Thet e courtcom somi aes
iosnteor
sm,
aaak
tehtehe yobuugrdn as
hte, wouldlight
elevated to judges, and the court would be as respect.
able and dignified as it was influential and important.
Power would be given to each judge to appoint convey-
ancing counsel, with the assent of the Lord Chancellor ;
but to secure the independence of the bar and the court
he bad taken the liberty of providing that those counsel
should not practise in the court. It was provided that a
code of intelligible and distinct rules should be drawn up
ofb opt
ohe
%judges,be r
,h
t eLord
Justices and th atifthey
o f failed
Appealtod and oso
the
Lord
byt be Ist
Char cellor should prepare them. If the house approved
the bill the court would be reconstructed, not exclu-
sively for the sale and transfer of land, but as a landed
estates court, affecting and including the entire landed
property of the country. The court itself would be self-
sustaining. It would no longer be a burden upon this
country, and the burden would be lightly felt by the
owners of estates, and not at all by the purchaser, who
derived property from the conveyance of the judge.
Should he be so fortunate as to obtain leave to introduce
this bill, the house would see that the working machinery
was practicable, and that the court might be safely
intrua'ed with the powers proposed, although such
powers had never yet been conferred on any tribunal.
They must, however, judge of the future by the past. It
was a gratification to him to have received the support of
his right hon. friend the Secretary of State for the Home
Department and of her Majesty's Solicitor-General. Their
desire was to apply similar principles to this country.
(Cheers.) Meanwhile it was his confident hope and belief
that in submitting this measure respectfully to the House
of Commonsit was one calculated to promote the industry
of the people of Ireland, and to pursue the course which
they had so happily pursued, contradistinguisbed from
the sil y and stupid agitation of past times, and which
was likely to make of them a wise, a peaceful, and a
wealthy nation. (Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman
concluded by moving for leave to introduce the bill.
Mr. J. D. FITZG'ERILD said it was somewhat
against precedent for Government on a Tuesday evening,
which was usually devoted to the motions of private
members, to introduce a bill involving considerable mat-
ter for discussion. The right hon. gentleman had endea-
voured to give the credit of the Encumbered Estates
Court to Lord St. Leonards, but he believed Lord St.
Leopards had no claim whatever to the origination of
that measure, and he certainly had cone to the carrying
of it into law. It was introduced into that house by Sir
John Reinilly, and it was mainly by his zeal that it was
carried into law. (Hear.) He had rlways been a supporter
of the system of the sale of encumbered estates, and had
constantly advocated its enlargement, but the right hon.
gentleman opposite, on the contrary, bad hitherto
strenuously opposed that system. But it was never too
late to be converted to the right opinion, and he was
glad at last to find the right hon. gentleman alter his
"lied. The right hon. gentleman bad fallen into error in
confounding registration of assurances with registration
of titles. There was a system of registration of assur-
ances in Ireland, but it was a very different thing
from registration of titles. He entrely concurred in
the principle of the measure as exp'ained by the right
hon. gentleman, and should be happy to give him his
gupport in paseing it into law, and in improving it
if, when the Bid was printed, it seemed likely to carry
out that principle. Considering, however, the exte.
nsive
character of the measure and the late period at e bleb it
was introduced, it was hardly likely that it could be
passed into law this session, and possibly Parliament
might be driven into a renewal of the Encumbered
Estates Court as it stood. The right hon. gentleman
titeetrhaeeasa
tmsaee convertedltteshuuerpep. to his opinion also on the financial part of
iWhenawg,
t Courtsien o
rl.B,
thesb6 but
tet
rigs,ieias hod proposed
foanr. h e gentlemanh a d t
adopted
ideaor t
it. . He could not quite see the justice of the provision
77 which
holocohl. taxedalea r, theby Bankc.oinp
eli. n Irelandg i
tto pay
to
interest
rae
snteo
ounn amount
the
balances. Surely it would be fairer that the parties
interested should be allowed to invest their balances ar,
they chose. It was singular that while the jurisdiction of
the Court was to be extended and new business given to it
one of the commissioners, Mr. Hargreave was to come to
England on his full salary ; and if Master Flanagan were
to be superseded after his longand valuable services to the
court' it ought certainly to be on exactly the same terms.
Sir E. PERRYthought that the right hon. gentleman