The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

- -
HOUSE OF LORDS.—(YEsTBRDAY.)
The LORD CHANOELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
SUFFERINGS AT CANNP°RE•
In reply to a question by the Earl of SHAFTESBURY,
asking whether there would be any objection to produce
a certain document to which reference had been made
ae " not received,"
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said he thought the
words "not received" had been written in India. He
thought no good whatever would result from placing ac-•
counts of individual suffering at Cawnpore before the
public ; on the contrary, he thought further debate
would only create feelings inconsistent with good go-
vernment and good legislation.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said that he should
persevere until the doctaiient ww
The Earl of ELLENBOROfIi said he was uncer-
tiin whether the document alluded to was really in
existence.

had only been laid on the table in February. The report
was signed by only three commissioners ; one of the
others dissented from the whole; the other, Mr. Hughes,
dissented from the powers proposed to be given to the
board with regard to mixed schools. Under these cir-
cumstances he thought he was not asking too much on
the part of the Government that they should not be ex-
pected to come to a conclusion on a matter of such im-
portance, involving such grave interests, without the
most serious and deliberate consideration. The improve-
ment of the middle-class education in Ireland was a mat-
ter of paramount importance, especially since the insti-
tution of the Queen's colleges had done so much for the
education of the upper classes ; and under the national
school system the primary instruction of the lower orders
was so much improved, it was desirable that the educa-
two of the middle classes should keep pace with those
above and below them. With regard to the proposal of
the commissioners, he fully admitted their labour and
dil gence, but he must be allowed to refrain from pledg-
siehgouhldimrseeclefitvoe atdhoeprtnetheteierarreecfuolmemonensiddaetriaotni.enTchf eherreport
Ma-
jesty's Government and of the Government in Ireland ;
hietah,eaLndorhdeLwieueuteldnafneetlwgoruealdt
direct
bhjiescpt
ar wastie one
aer
pleasure if he could, either by following the recommen-
dations of the commissioners, or by means of the infor-
thatwtehniet
tion they had prepared, find any means of promoting
obj*icts of such deep interest.
The Earl of CARLISLE said that the observation of
the noble earl bad relieved him from the necessity of con-
tinuing the discussion ; but knowing what was passing in
Ireland, he felt bound to say that it was impossible to
estimate too highly the labour, perseverance, imparti-
ality, and candour of the commissioners, who had been
selected by his predecessor in office (Earl St, Germains).
Their report contained a mass of most useful matter, de-
serving the most deliberate consideration of the Govern-
ment and Legisla'ore. He regretted that he had not
had time to make himself master of its voluminous
contents, but it was clear that the existence was proved
of great and manifold abuses, which called for a remedy.
The education given in Ireland, in the primary schools
under the National Board, would compare with any-
thing in England, but there was a striking inferiority in
the middle class schools. The details given in the re-
port showed that there were great facilities for remedy-

SECOND READINGS.
On the motion of Lord REDESDALE the following bilk
were read a second time :—Aberdare Water, Merthyr
Tydvil Water, Selkirk and Gateshead Railway, Folke-
stone Water, Ely Valley Railway, and Liskearl and
Lore Union Canal Companies.
GAME LAWS.
.A noble lord asked whether there was any intention
meths part of the Government to amend the Game
Laws.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the subject not
having been considered by the Government he could
give no definite answer to the question.
THE COURT Of CHANCERY.
Yiscou.nt CLIFFORD asked the noble and learneerde
lord on ti:e woolsack, whether any further steps were
to be taken in exdite causes in the.Cdoutto f
question
of
The LORD CHANCELLOR sat
the noble vie count was so
generally r
e
't
fgChan his
-
cery. Me, however,
that he had been precludedrauu offromt
worded,
e Curtdicin
o
inquiries to any particular
b
complained of the delays that took
place, more particularly besfaoyre
thate chaillef
thcleerkiusfeart:
Chambers, but he must
nation he had been able to collect did
hot
confirm the noble lord's complaint, He found that '
instead of the business being conducted in a very dilatory
and Unsatisfactory manner, the contrary was the case,
sa he found that the chief clerks pursued and
transactee their business in as expeditious a
manner as possible. If the noble lord would point out
any particular branch in which delay was unnecessarily
caused, he would institute an immediate and searching
Lord CRANWORTH must say that he had no recol-
lection of the candid but not very courteous answer of
his to which the noble viscount referred. With regard
to the complaints made by the noble earl with respect
to the delay in the chief clerks' offices, he must say that
he thought them if not absolutely unfounded, at least
grossly exaggerated. He bad before now inquired into
this matter, and the thing he found was that sometimes
when parties wanted to proceed on a particular day the
pressure of other joesiness would not allow the chief
clerk to appoint a Iday for taking up their case until a
day or two after the one which they were anxious to
have. This must occur with any tribunal. It was im-
possible for any court having a large amount of business
to transact so to be constituted that the suitor could, as
it were, at any time ring the bell of the court, and say,
" Now just take up my case." Each matter must take
its tarn, and beyond the delay which this necessarily
created, he believed that no delay whatever arose.
Lord CAMPBELL said that the practice of 'putting
off causes from time to time was a very objectionable
ohe. It was the thing which had been the ruin of the
system of the Masters' offices.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said that the practice in the
chief clerks' chambers was by no means similar to the
old practice before the masters. The intention of the
Legislature was not to put the chief clerks in the situa-
tion of the masters, but to give them as subordinate
officers to the judges, in order that the latter might
with their aid do that which the masters had formerly
done. The Court of Chancery should make it a rule that
when it took up any particular matter it would not leave
it until it was concluded ; bat at the same time he was
bound to admit that from what he had seen of the chief
clerks he had the highest opinion of their capacity and
industry.
Lord LIFFORD said if it could be shown that the
statement upon which his complaint was founded was
untrue he would at once admit that he was wrong in the
position he had taken up, but in the absence of any di-
rect proof to that effect be should retain the opinion he
had already expressed in this matter.
The subject then dropped.
ENDOWED SCHOOLS IN IRELAND.
The Earl of CORK called the attention of the house
to the report of the commissioners appointed to inquire
into the state of endowed schools in Ireland. The com-
missioners were appointed, he said, in 1854, and the
duty entrusted to them was to ascertain the state of the
schools ; the mode of managing the funds that supported
them, and the nature of the instruction given in the
schools. Having made themselves masters of the entire
subject, they were to report the evidence, together with
the opinions they had formed in collecting it, to her Ma-
jesty. Subsequently to the appointment of the commis-
sioners difficulties arose in the way of pursuing the in-
quiry in consequence of the refusal of parties interested
in the endowments to admit the authority of the com.
missioners, and -an Act of Parliament was passed to
enable them to carry out the investigation. After a most
diligent inquiry, the commissioners made their report,
which had now for some time been before Parliament,
and although it formed no part of his intention to die-
cuss its merits, ho must yet trouble their lordships with
a few extracts from it. The middle classes in Ireland were
daily becoming alive to the importance of securing a
sound administration fur their endowed schools. They
saw the benefits that resulted to the poorer classes from
the working of the national system, and they were at a
loss toconceive why some system of management equally
efficient could not be devised for securing to their chil-
dren the full benefits of the endowed schoois. The noble
lord then proceeded to quote largely from the report of
the cornmis,ioners to show that the management of en-
dowed schools in Ireland generally was grossly defective
—not only as regarded the nature and quality of educa-
tion given by them, but also as regarded the husbanding
and distribution of the estates with which they were en-
dowed. The middle classes of Ireland were anxiously
waiting to see what course the noble earl at the head of
the Government intended to take in consequence of this
report, and he should be rejoiced to learn that the noble HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
earl was alive to the importance of applying sonic reme d
to the defects which the commissioners pointed min y The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
The Earl of DERBY said that the noble lord had tor- PRIVATE BUSINESS.
reetly stated that the commissioners were appointed in The following bills were read a third time and
1854. They found it necessary in the course of their in- poaeses,eden:—d
oßeirrmu inagdhßamuad.Canal Navigation, Beentford
quiry to appoint four assistant commissioners; they had The following bills wer3 further considered and
also a very extensive staff of clerks and short-hand ordered to be read a third time :—Cornwall Railway,
writers, and the result of their labours they had embodied Eastern Counties Railway, London and South Western
in four large folio volumes. To one of these, which con- Railway, Plymouth Great Western Docks, Stokes Bay
Railway and Pier, and Trent Navigation.
tamed upwards of 200 pages, the noble lord had just HAINAULT FOREST (ALLOTMENT OF COM-
called attention, but the others no doubt embraced
MONS) BILL.
equally valuable information, though of a somewhat ex- Mr. HAMILTON nominated the following Select
tended nature, as might be gathered from the fact that Committee on Hainault Forest (Allotment of Commons)
the expense of printing it cost 5,2001, while the quantity Mr. Bil!
D—eMedre.s,tmiwltoan,,
BMerre.sflitmore. Mr. Crawford,
of paper which the publication of it had consumed and five members to be added ibayndthMe rC
jomaginNiVttielsonf
amounted to no less than 15 tons. (A laugh.) He did Selection—five to be the quorum. e e
not know whether the noble lord who had put this ques- IRISH RETENUE POLICE.
Mr. F. RUSSELL moved for copies of a memorial
tion to him had found leisure to make himself master of
- from the officers of the late Irish Revenue Police to the
this light reading ; but for himself, he must confess that
he had not yet had an Lords of the Treasury, presented on the 23c1 day of
y time to go through it. The re- March last to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with
port was not that of the commissioners, but only of the the accompanying statement of the present and of the
majority, as it was only signed by three of them, while
othertwo absolutely and entirely dissented from all
the
the conclusions to which their colleagues had come. Far minute made thereon.—Agreed to.
be it, however, from him to dispute the labour, the in- WESTERN BANK OF SCOTLAND.
dustry, and the value of the inquiry, and he had no heel- Mr;BRADY gave notice that he should to-morrow
tation in saying, that in the managementy of manyd of the"
put a question to the Lord-Advocate relative to the
schools there appeared to have been great and Western Bank of Scotland.
ustifi-
able neglect. The commissioners badgeneceeCleduinj THE INDIAN PRESS.
instances in demonstrating the want of sufficient audit Mr. MAGUIRE gave notice that he should to-mor-
of the funds of these schools, and of proper schoolmas row present a petition from the Madras Presidency rele,
tern to conduct the educaton given in them. It was not tive to the Press Act.
desirable to enter then into any discussion of the indi APPOINTMENT OF MAGISTRATES FOR THE
vidual cases of mismanagement : it was enough for the- BOROUGH OF CANTERBURY,
purposes of the discussion to admit that mismanagement Mr. JOHN LOCKE (Southwark) gave notice that he
did exist. But what was the remedy which three out of should on cally theFrida-attention of the house to the
the fiVe coMMissiOnera proposed fiir remedying the defects? recent appointment of justices of the peace for the bo-
The commissioners were the Marquis of Kildare, Dr. rough of Canterbury.
Graves, Mr. Andrews, members of the Irish bar; Mr. MERCANTILE LAW OF CANADA.
H. G. Hughes, the fete Solicitor-General for Ireland, Mr. VANCE asked the Attorney-Generalif his af-•
and Mr. A. J. Stephens a member of the English bar. et, tention had been called to the
present state o f the mer-
HughesandAir. Stephens were the dissentients from the cautile law of Canada, which sanctions preferential
conclusions at which the other three had arrived. The eese. assignments of debtors' e' ffects, without affording any
miseioners proposed to make a distinction in the schools, means of redress to the general body of their creditor: ?
and to divide them into non-exclusive and exclusive The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he was unable
school,. With regard to all non-exclusive schools it was to afford any inforMation on the subject. It was one ex-
proposed that a new board should be established on the elusively within the cogni-iance of the Canadian Legis-
principle of the National Educatiou Board, and composed lature. The Attorney-General for Engl
and had co
of persons varying in their religious persuasion. Ti was means of taking the final step towards redressing any
proposed that the board should have an office in Dublin such grievance as that alluded to.
—a solicitor, an inspector, an audit department, with a BANDFMRST AND WOOLWICH.
paid treasurer, and various other officers, and that the Mr. LYGON asked Viscount Palmerston whether
charge of supporting the board should be thrown upon the minutes relative to the recent alterations at Sand-
the Consolidated Fund. That was the first proposition. burst and Woolwich were submitted to, and sanctioned
The next was, that all endowed school:7, of whatever (Is- by, the late Government or not. (Cheers.)
nomination, provided they were non-exclusive, should Lord PALMERSTON raid his noble friend Lord
Panmure showed him the draft of a regulation to form
be placed under the actual and, as he understood, tt,e
t sole control of the new board ; that they should keep a the new arrangements referred to, and, generally speak-
register for the entry of bequests, and that all Co
ing, it seemed to him (Lord Palmerston) to be very right
Comes of
and proper. It involved two material points. One was
Prolsate should furnish them with extracts of such wills
that young men who wishe I to become competitors for
as left money for the establishment of new or the cup-
Port of existing schools ; that the management of all exatninwion in the scientific branches. instead of regis-
Papers connected with the property of the school, and tering their names at the office of the Secretary of State
the ehtronege of the endowed schools vested in the lord- for War,
lieutenant should be transferred to them ; and that the
funeds of
methuein
were to register them at the Commander
Chief's. The other was that competitors for coin.
be from Sandhurst
endowed_ imbeds should be brought into missions in scientific branches should
on
then,
and distributed by them amongst the instead of those educated elsewhere, which was sag-
differentedby
ne Theseb were some of the powers to be g
to be both exterisivwe and ex ested with a view of imps- the education at
and certainly they appeared Sandhurst, with the understanding that if the change
most serious Considerationtx lea:f prop ;sal could be
rdinaryaud demanded the was objected to competitors should be taken one had
made to put them in force. H:ree•
it might not be found necessary j'e,ether th
from Satelburst, and one half from elsewhere. With no
not meals to say that gard to the part of the question omitted, e h
in the constitution of these schools, b
make some alteration minute bore any minute of his (Lord Palmerston)
Come to the conclusion, on the re but
rthoef would say to' in his own handwriting, he was unable then to give :se
one opt of five, to transfer the whole of these Majority of answer, but he had no doubt his right hon. friend the
all their endowments to a new board to be seceireols and Secretary h r War (General Peal) could best answer the
with a new staff of officers, was a matter which would question, (Hear, bear.)
quire very serous consideration • He •didnot know vihel EXCHEQUER BONDS (2,000,00010 BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
titer the new board was proposed to be separate from the •
national board, it would involve a serious expense, which the second reading of this bill.
•proposed to throw on the consolidatedr fund of this Sir G.
it was C. LEWIS said—Sir, in rising to offer a
had time to make himself ac- remarks •
country. He bad not as yet on this bill, lam d • estrous at the outset to ad-
quairited with the contents of these bulky volumes which vest to a report which has been industriously circulated,

ing this defect, and he could only express a hope 6-at
uo do narrow an adherence to the oH forms of the
establishment would be allowed to prevent them from
dealing with these endowments in such a manner as
would best promote and extend middle class education
in Ireland.
The Bishop of CASHEL concurred in the testimony

to the character and labour of the commissioners ; but
with regard to the report of the three, one of the other
two dissented from it as vicious in principle and bad in

law, the other, Mr. Hughes, declared the system to be
wrong in principle and impossible in practice ; separate
education he pronounced to be right in principle, and
the only one practicable in Ireland. No Government,
no people, would act on a report which was so denounced
by two of the commissioners. The report divided the
schoole into two classes, exclusive and non-exclusive,
and proposed to transfer all non-exclusive to the new
board. By exclusive schools they meant those into
which children of only one persuasion had a right to
admission ; but there were a number of schools founded
by Protestants to encourage the teaching of the estab-
lished religion. Into these schools Catholic children
were admitted, that they might be turned from what the
founders considered error ; but by the thfiuition of the
report these would be held non-exclusive schools. They
would, under the board, be devoted to mixed educa-
tion, and the intentions of the founders would be frus-
trated. He admitted that there was great need of doing
something ; but he conceived the great want was that
of a good inspection. There was now a number of
schools subject to no inspection, and there ought to be
a staff of properly trained inspectors.
The Earl ST. GERMA INS had no wish to prolong
-,he discussion. He thought his noble friend (the Earl
of Cork) and the house ought to be satisfied with the
assurance given by the noble earl (the Earl of Darby)
that the subject should receive the consideration of the
Government. He feared that an impression had been
made on their lordships that the education in all these
schools was defective ; such was not the case—he could
speak from personal knowledge of the Royal School of
Armagh, which he had visited and which was not infe-
rior to any school in the conetry. He believed several
others were equally efficient.
The Earl of BELMOR E said that the schools of En-
oiskillen, Dungannon, and Armagh were in the most
satisfactory condition. A number of others, however,
were in a very inferior state, and the commissioners pro-
posed to improve them at the expense of the others.
The subject then dropped.
CHRISTIANITY IN INDIA.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY rose, pursuant to no-
tice, to present a petition from various religious denomi-
nations respecting the promotion of Christianity in India.
He said the object of the petitioners was to clear them-
selves of imputations which had been lately made against
them. They had been charged with bigotry, with vio-
lence, with a wish to make proselytes by force, and with
a desire to obtain the aid of Government in their objects.
They denied all these charges, and wished that this pe-
tition should be regarded as a sort of confession of Lath.
They wished to place it on record as an exhibit Lin of
their principles and objects, so that hereafter. when any
such charges might be ma le against them, they could
refer to this petition for their justification.

The Earl Of ELLENBORdUGH would not say more
with regard to the petition than that so long as he had.
anything to do with the government of India he should
adhere most strictly tl the ancient traditional policy of
the British Government in India—that was absolute
neutrality in matters of religion. He intended, so far as
in him lay, that this neutrality should be real, that it
should exist not only in the language of the Govern •
meet, but in its acts and the acts of its officers. He
had heard with satisfaction from his noble friend that
the petXoners did not desire the aid of Government;
he felt satisfied that nothing could be co injurious
to their object as even the appearance of such aid
they should stand by themselves; by individual exertions
by private missionaries, they might have some success ;
but be felt convinced that if it was for a moment step.
posed that Government extended any aid to them (he
feared there was a belief that such was to some exten t
the case), the result would be the greatest danger to
English interests in India, and the utter destruction of
all the hopes of the missionaries of religion.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table.