The Sun.
London, England, 1867-10-03 00:00:00

TB E SUN. LON DON. TH URS OA V E V ENING, OCTOBER 3, 1867.

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sour ed at I they were by the imperfect state in which
it caime :to Birmingham, been false, he might have
died a pauper, with the stigma of wild speculation
on his i nemory ; and if Muntz had not discerned a
distinct ion which escaped the eagle ken of Davy,
yellow sheathing, with its magnificent rewards to
himself an( I its still greater benefits to the public,
would hav( I had no existence. In conclusion, the
learned president expressed his conviction that the
removal of every obstacle to the permanent welfare
of the tow; o, and the promotion of whatever tended
to its advt ncement, must concurrently foster the
love of kno..xledge in the rising generation. Thus
imbued, ithe young would flock into the Birmingham
and Midl and Institute, and thence issue forth to use
their acci, airements that their own profit might go
hand in hruad with the good of others. That they
might offer such an example to successors without
number wP,s, and would ever be so long as life re-
mained, his heartfelt prayer. (Applause.)
A vote of thanks to Mr. Hill was moved by the
MAYOR, and carried by acclamation.

SHIPS AND GUNS.

On Wednesday last the American 15-inch gun,
charged with 100 lb. of American powder and Ame-
rican shot weighing a little more than 4501 b., pene-
trated the 8-inch Warrior target at Shoeburyness
twice. We had anticipated its success with this
high charge for the following reasons :—lt has been
found by experiment that a pointed Palliser shot
requires about 109 foot tons per inch of its circum-
ference to perforate the 8-inch target, and the power
of a pointed shot is to that of a round-headed shot
as 10 to 9, nearly, so that the latter, if of steel,
would require about 121 foot tons per inch of cir-
cumference to effect the same penetration. Now,
the actual energy of the two shot fired on Wednes-
day were—first round, 7,208 foot tons, or 152.7
per inch of shot's circumference; second round,
7,300 foot tons, or 154.6 per inch of shot's circum-
ference. Each projectile had, therefore, more than
30 foot tons per inch of circumference to spare, and
the penetration was certain unless the shot broke
up before it could get through. The iron of which
these projectiles are cast is most excellent in quality
approaching very nearly to the strength of steel for
the particular work required of it ; indeed, it is evi-
dent that we have something to learn of the Ameri-
cans in this direction. But when we come to in-
quire what probability there is of the gun's employ-
ment under such advantageous conditions in real
warfare, the answer cannot but reassure the minds
of those who live in perpetual dread of being
behindhand in military materiel. Suppose two
ships or two fleets engaged in combat. There is
but one chance out of thousands that a gunner
gets a fair and square shot at his adversary. Even
if the ships were at anchor, there is only one point
in each of them where the target is presented at
right angles to the enemy's gun, and if we follow in
imagination the swift and circling war vessels through
the maze of their terrible manoeuvres, we cannot
fail to see that the opportunities given by those
who wish to avoid their antagonist's close and
direct fire must be few indeed. Nevertheless, such
opportunities will occur, and if our navy is really
intended for war purposes we should spare no pains
to have at least some of the strongest ships afloat.
We may say at once that the Hercules would not
be pierced by the 15in. gun with 100 lb. charge,
whatever may be the loose ideas on this subject
entertained in some quarters. Nor must it be for-
gotten that this 19-ton gun is no broadside piece.
It is for turrets only at present, though we are far
from believing that the progress in shipbuilding will
not leave behind all existing models, and give us,
perhaps, platforms capable of supporting many such
guns as these.

Forts should always be ab;e to hold their own
against smooth-bored guns. Torpedoes, the watch
dogs of our coast defences, will prevent intruders
from advancing within the limits of their chains for
a regular bombardment at close quarters and
bouquets of mortar shells falling like thunderbolts
from the sky upon the weak decks or turret grat-
ings will carry with them a far more terrible and
certain ruin than can be assured by any other kind of
artillery fire against exceptionally strong ironclads.
We are of opinion that this point has not yet re-
ceived the consideration due to its importance.
Mortar fire can never be as accurate as horizontal
fire from guns, but it can be greatly improved, and
no vessel yet built is protected against vertical fire
with heavy shells.

Torpedoes constitute a vast addition to the de-
fence ; but let us not put too much confidence in
them. They can never be more than auxiliaries to
delay and embarrass the movements of an attacking
fleet, for, be it remembered, they can be exploded
by the shock of other heavy masses than hulls of
ships, or sought for and removed by brave men in
the darkness of night. They are but submarine
mines, after all, and are not more to be dreaded than
the subterranean horrors which lurk round every
land fortress. It is strange how often men cry out
" Eureka! Henceforth lam invulnerable." Soldiers
and sailors carry their lives in their hands ; and
when the day comes that England can find no officer
chivalrous enough to lead a band of men to almost
certain death, no faithful soldiers to follow him striv-
ing among themselves for the post at once of honour
and danger, she may burn her ships and strip the
uniform from her degenerate sons, for success in war
will have become impossible to her for ever.
There will be many to say that the Shoeburyness
target was unfairly pierced by the Rodman gun on
Wednesday, because it had been previously shaken
almost to pieces, and, indeed, when we consider that
it had suffered during the many months of its ex-
istence the successive shocks of projectiles, weighing
about 16,0001 b., hurled against it by 2,7001 b. of
powder, and representing an energy of 193,000 foot
tons, or 519 foot tons per square foot of surface—
that it had been perforated till no absolutely sound
spot could be found in it—the opinion is not without
some reason. Both indents made by the shot on Wed-
nesday's firing ran into old holes, the second was on
the junction of two plates, and there can be no doubt
that the work would have been more difficult had
the target been sounder ; but, as we have shown
above, the force was more than sufficient to pene-
trate even a sound target, provided the shot were of
sufficiently good material. We can estimate almost
exactly what the gun can do against perpendicular
resistance, and it is easy to say what targets it will
penetrate and what it will not, under the excep-
tional condition of 100 lb. charges, or ordinary ones
of 601 b., but we have as yet no experience of its
power at an angle, though we can guess pretty nearly
what it will be. This should be ascertained as soon
as the Ordnance Select Committee have anything
to fire at, and while the gun remains unharmed by
its heavy charges. Such an opportunity for com-
prehensive experiments has never yet been seen.
Cannot we persuade the War-office to carry it a
little further, and bring the Northern European
gun, the 9 inch Krupp's breechloader, into the com-
petition ? Nothing is to be gained by secrecy in
these matters. Our light burns strongly enough to
bear a few breezes, and there is no reason to put it
under a bushel. We know what our guns can and
what they cannot do. Let us by all means ascertain
the powers of the best foreign guns by direct expe-
riment under the eyes of our own officials and in the
full light o public criticism.
In all such comparisons there are two dangers to
be guarded against. On the one,hand, the rocks of
prejudice iu favour of our own weapons; on the
o: her, the whirlpool of popular opinion and popular
fallacies. The former tends to make our officials un-
dervalue what goes on outside the charmed circle
of British manufacture ; the latter would drive them
to over estimate the importance of every novel in-
vention. Between these two dangers careful steer-
ing is required, and if our pilots would show them-
selves worthy of the trust reposed in them they must
ascertain and mark out clearly, not only the rocks
and quicksand; but also every practicable channel
however removed from the one most in favour.

The second part of Wednesday's firing was of con-
siderable interest, though not of a character to chal-
lenge comparison with what went before. A solid
Palliser shot from the 9 inch gun of 12 tons, less than
two-thirds the weight of the Rodman gun, was fired
at the same target, but at an angle of 25 deg. from
the perpendicular to the face of the target. The 8
inch plate was penetrated, and the shot lodged in
the backing. The position of the gun was then
changed so as to reduce the angle to 20 deg. from the
right angle, when the shot penetrated plate and
backing, and cracked two of the ribs supporting
the inner skin. The range was 70 yards in either
case—a range which straugely.enough suits the rifled
gun less than that of 200 yards. These penetrations
at various angles are of high importance, because
they represent the cases most likely to occur in real
war, and it is to be hoped the Rodman gun will be
put to the same test as soon as arrangements can be
made for it. The big American gun cost the country
£1,500, and there is some natural objection to risk
its early destruction by continuing to fire 100 lb.
charges. But while acknowledging that the life of
one cast iron gun may be very different in duration
to the life of another, such a test will, at least, show
what may be counted as one possibility on service.
The bursting of such a gun in a turret would be ruin
to the morale of the whole ship's crew, but if the life
of one gun be as much as, say 20 rounds, a reckless
captain might risk it in action for a few rounds on
the chance of getting a pingle shot in between wind

and water. Shells from the 15 inch gun will be of
no use against ironclads, but no wooden ships could
stand before them for half an hour.—limes.

THE SPECIAL FISHERY COMMISSIONERS
lIV CUMBERLAND.

WORKINGTON, Monday.

The Special Commissioners for inquiring into
fixed engines in the rivers in England have been
holding an adjourned Court here, for the purpose
of inquiring into fixed engines on the River Der-
went and estuary. At the first sitting here,
about a fortnight ago, several cases were left
over, and among these a very important claim
made by Lord Lonsdale to a fishing coop on the
Derwent, two or three miles above this town. This
case, which was opened on Friday last, has occupied
the Commissioners three days, and is likely to
occupy a fourth. It is one which excites a good
deal of interest, as evinced by the large number of
persons attending the daily sittings. The Commis-
sioners are James Paterson, Esq., chairman ; Capt.
Spratt, R.N. ; and Major Scott.
The evidence and the legal points raised on both
sides were very voluminous, aud, therefore, we
must confine our report to a comparatively brief
summary of the chief points in both.

The case of the claimant, as opened by Mr.
Lamb, his lordship's solicitor, was that this was an
ancient fishery. Lord Lonsdale claimed a " several
fishery" in that part of the river Derwent lying in
the parishes of Seaton, Stainburn, and Working-
ton ; and traced his title by deeds as far back as
1751, when the property was sold by Mr.
Curwen, a member of a well-known Cumber-
land family, to Sir James Lowther, an ancestor
of the present Earl of Lonsdale. The deeds con-
veyed a "free and several salmon fishery and pis-
cary," with a " garth and coop nigh Seaton Mill."
This was the coop now claimed. About that time
the fishery was let for £5O a year, as shown by a
lease produced in Court. As to the way in which
the fishery had been fished, it appeared that when
the Solway Act was passed in 1804 these coops (for
there were then two) were fished in accordance
with that Act, which required that the becks, or
rather the bars of the hecks, should be 3 inches
apart, and that they should be upright, and not
horizontal. The then Earl of Lonsdale, however,
obtained a private Act in 1809 exempting his Der-
went fishery from the operation of the Solway Act,
and accordingly from that time the fishery was
fished with horizontal bars, and 1 inch instead of
3 inches apart. This continued up to 1861, when
the General Salmon Fishery Act for England was
passed, and that act among others repealed the Sol-
way Act as far as it related to English rivers, and
also repealed Lord Lonsdale's private Act. There-
fore after 1861 the hecks were again put perpen-
dicular and the bars widened to 2 inches. But,
between 1819 and 1861, Lord Lonsdale fished
with the horizontal bars and lf inch apart with-
out challenge, :except in 1819 when an action
was brought against his tenant (Mr. Peat) for
using these horizontal bars, but Mr. Justice Bailey,
who heard the case at the Carlisle assizes, directed
a non-suit. The fishery in 1862 was let to a
gentleman named Walker, who gave the fish a
year's " jubilee" by throwing open the coops, and
in that year Mr. Eden, late one of her Majesty's
Inspectors of Fisheries, came down and visited the
Derwent, and at his suggestion the second coop was
closed up and a free pass was made near the other
and now existing coop. A plan was drawn up, sub-
mitted to the Home Office, and approved, and the
pass made according to that plan. The claimant
contended, therefore, that he was now fishing under
the direct sanction of the Home Office, although, of
course, that did not establish the original legality of
the fixed engine.
After the production of certain deeds, the oppo-
nents to the claim, Mr. Saul of Carlisle, on the part
of Lord Leconfield, and Mr. Waugh of Cockermouth,
in the interest of riparian proprietors higher up the
river, called for an inspection of the whole of Lord
Lonsdale's title deeds, but this was resisted on the
part of his lordship; and, after much argument, the
Commissioners decided that Lord Lonsdale could
not be required to produce all his deeds.
The witnesses examined were Mr. Walker, the
tenant of the fishery in 1862, Mr. Peat, and Mr.
Glover, previous tenants— the fishery having been
in the hands of Mr. Peat's family for a century
Mr. Steele, M.P., for Cockermouth, Wane Fletcher,
aged 78, Joseph Scott, aged 80, and John Hodg-
son, aged 79—a1l of the family of "oldest inhabi-
tants"—Mr. Dalzell of Salmon Mill, the present
tenant of the fishery, and one or two others.
The total width of the weir across the Der-
went at Seaton Mill was proved to be 272 yards.
It is divided into two weirs, with an island between
them. The weir serves Seaton mill with water
power, and also some ironworks near, called Beer
Pot Works. It was proved that, there being a grat-
ing at the top of the weir, old spent salmon in the
spring were killed there in numbers—sometimes
eight or nine were found dead in a morning, al-
though men had been backwards and forwards all
night pushing them back into the river. In 1798
520 salmon were caught in one day at this fishery,
and Mr. Peat said he had caught a cart load in a
day in 1815 or 1846. Nothing like so many were
caught now. Mr. Peat also put in a stake net at
the mouth of the run in Lord Lonsdale's right,
which he considered he could do without asking
anybody's leave.

The priucipal grounds of opposition are a denial
of the several fishery, and an allegation that the
coops had been moved from another dam to Seaton's
dam; but the opponents' case has not been fully
opened yet.