The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-05 00:00:00

_
The government of Englapel professed loudly on behalf of
the principles of freedom, but was very weak in support of
them. New it appeared to him that they had at present
a rare opportunity of establishing a liberal government in
Wallachia, which might never again occur, but it was said
by his right hon. friend the Uneer-Secretary of State for
Foreign 'Affairs that this house should not interfere. New
what did that mean ? He (Mr. Roebuck) wanted to know
why f The House cf Commons—the government of Eng-
land were about to see their representative in Paris
aeain in the Congress of Europ .an Powers, and to see him
supported iu their name on behalf of England, and they
were told they were not to express their opinion, and
tell the other assembled Powershow they wished him to
act. Now it appeared to him that it was the duty of the
House of Commons to tell those who represented England
how they (eight to act, and what the house wished them
to do—what principles they ought to advise and advocate,
and how they ought to exert their influence. And he
would Low tell the House of Commons to exert their in-
fluence, and to say to the representatives of European
Powers that England was about to support a free people iu
an effort to govern themselves. (Hear, and cheers.) Upon
what o caci in were the European Powers to meet, andlupon
what matter? It appeared that, for some years past, the
Emperor of Russia chose to make war upon Turkey, and
in so doing the first thing he did was to transgress certain
limits and to invade certain Principalities on borders
of the Danube, and in so doing the people of England felt
that he broke through the rules, and England declare& war
agaiust him. But in so doing what did England then do?
She said that the Emperor of Russia should not dismember
Turkey, and so long as the Principalities were connected
with Turkey they thereby resisted Russia. But the Prin-
cipalities, as connected with Turkey were connected in a
very peculiar way. They were connected with it. by a
treaty, which provided that, on their union to Turkey, they
should maiatain their own independence. By that treaty
Russia was confined within her dominions, Austria within
hefe, and Turkey within her's ; and then came the Mol-
davian people, and they said, " We are a people of the
Western world, and we ask you, the European Powers, to
maintain our undeniable rights." (Hear.) That was all
that they said ; and on that account they were supported
by France, on the one side, who sail those people are a
people who should have a free government. (Hear.) This
was a free people, deriving their origin from a peculiar
source namely, from the old Roman empire, whose Itves
and order they long observed. They mainlained their in-
dependence and the integrity of their dominions through-
out ages of tyranny and misrule. Eventually they sub-
mitted to the Turkish empire, which was then in the
ascendant, in accordance with a contract which was still in
exissence. They never submitted themselves by conquest
to Turkey ; but by this free and independent contract.
They never lost sight gf their Western origin. They spoke
a language nearly Roman—they had a religion of the
Eastern Empire of Rome—they had 'the institutions of
the Roman Empire—and to the present time they had
maintained their in tividual existence as a Western and an
independent people. When the Russian wer concluded,
these people applied to the European powers to be de-
fended, as a Western people,. against the encroachments of
Turkey on their individual and political liberties. They
asked first for their independence as a people, and in order
to insure that they thought they ought to have a king se-
lected from some one of the monarchies of Europe. They
were doing just what the Italian republics did. They
could not elect a person from amongs themselves to govern
them, and they wished a foreign prince for the purpose.
They demanded respresentative institutions, and wished
to be governed according to the policy of Europe. But it
was sai l that, this could not be done, and why ? Because
it would throw the province:, into the arms of Russia !
But he wanted to know if a people, numbering five mil-
lions, ruled by a king who had been chosen by themselves,
would not rather create a barrier against Russia— a barrier
greeter than we could create by annexing them either to
Austria or Turkey. They were a people who had the
means of prosperity within themselves; their country was
accessible b, sea to England ; and united to this country
by ties of commerce, they would oppose an effectual bar-
rier to the designs of Russia on Turkey, The case of these
provinces was such as ought to arouse the feelings of every
man ;an f England wished to take part in the business of
Continental Europe in a way that she should, as expressive
of her own dignity, and conducive to the interests and
happiness of mankind ; she could only do so by aiding these
people to become free.
Mr. DUFF said the " sick man," to whom the Emperor
of Russia referred, was now assuredly dying, and the duty
of England was to act the part of the family solicitor and
the family physician, and endeavour to secure his rich in-
heritance to his rightful heirs—the Christian population
subject to his rule, and in doing that they would only be
following the natural course of ,events, What they ought
to do was to place Wallachia and Moldavia in the position
of Servia, and in the fullness of time they would have to
do the same for Bulgaria and the rest of the Turkish
provinces.

mail the question was vested with a particular solemnity ;
that it wa. brought before the Congress of Paris, and that
the representatives of the grant Eurepeen Powers were
asked their opinions upon the subject, and gave their com-
mon assent to it. But the right hon. gentleman forgot to
add that this same Congress was to meet in a few dee 5,
when all these questions of the comnsiesieuers would be
decided. Now, it was at such a_time as that he called on
the house, not to give instructions to their own Govern-
ment or their own Minister in Paris, but to come to a vote
which would be looked upon as instructions to the repre-
sentatives of the Powers of Europe. (Cheers.) The right
hon. gentleman commenced by saying that the house
should bear in mind that these Principalities were inde-
pendent. But for what did they go to war with Russia, or
shed so much blood, and expend so much treasure, but to
maintain the independence of the Turkish Empire? In the
very preamble to the treaty of peace, it wag set ferth as
the cause of that war, and one of the most solemn declara-
tions of that treaty was that of the great Powers pledging
themselves to maintain that independence. To t ilk of the
Principalities being independent under these circumstances
was simply a mistake. Now, if that were so, let them con-
sider what would be the result of the right hsre geatle-
Man's motion. He was one of the Ministers of the Crown
when the war with Russia broke out, and when it was de-
clared by him as one of the Government, that inasmuch as
they formed an integral part of Turkey, they ought to be
Maintained, and therefore it was that the attempt by Rus-
sia to occupy them was resisted. But what did the sight
hon. gentleman do that night ? He asserted on the present
occasion that the Principalities were totally independent.
(Cries of " No.") The right hon. gentleman certainly, in
the clearest manner possible, stated that the Principalities
Were independent states.
Mr. GLADSTONE—I never said the words.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD continued—Well, the right hen.
gentlemen at least treated them as such. He asserted
their independence when he refused to recognise the
rights of Turkey. Then the right hon. gentleman asked
them to agree to his motion on the ground that it was the
express wish of the people of the Principalities that a
union should take place. Now, on that he was at issue
With him. They had unanimously an opinion for a
union ; but it was on the express condition that they were
to be placed under the government of a foreign prince.
The right hon. gentleman put it before: the house, first,
that the people preferred a union with a foreign prince,
but if that could not be obtained, they would agree to have
a native. Now, if that were the case, there would be some
ground for his motion, but it was the very reverse. In the
brat instance the five points were put to the vote as one
whole, and nothing done could lead any one to believe a
wish was expressed in favour of such an opinion. The
population, on the contrary, made an express declaration
that if a union under a foreign prince were insisted on,
they would acquiesce, but that a union under a native
prince, or under an authority named by the Porte, would
not only not alleviate their evils, but add to them. So far
from saying that, they expressed themselves clearly of
opinion that any union, except under a foreign prince.
Would be the last thing they would aesire. (Hear, hear.)
H held in bis hand a copy of the report made by the com-
missioners who proceeded to the Principalities; mad it is
expressly declared that the rivalries and jealousies of the
native princes were such as to make it impossible for any
Government to exist, except under the control of a foreign
prince connected with some of the royal houses of Europe.
o that,
as the right hon. gentleman would see, the last
S
thing in the world they looked for was a union of the Prin-
cipalities under either a native prince, or a person deputed
by the Porte. If that be the popular opinion in these
Principalities, the right hon. gentleman, as an advocate
fits —their wishes, was bound to support them. But, in
point of fact, a union under a foreign prince would make
radically and totally independent and incompatible with
those objects for which they went to war. If that took
place, of what use would their army or fleets be ? For
they could not get there. Diplomatic intervention would
be impossible, moral influence also impossible— to England
at • least. It would be impossible, in such an event, to
consider themselves in any position where they could
raise up a barrier against the aggressive policy of Russia.
Well, that was the state of the case. The people of the
Principalities had expressed a wish which was incompatible
With the treaty ; and was the house to be called upon to
support the people of the Principalities merely because
they expressed a wish for independence ? The sight hon.
gentlemen was calling upon the house to adopt a course
More dangerous than it had yet been called to enter upon.
They might, he did not deny, give them their sympathy,
and even their moral support, when the proper time came,
but at present they could only be called upon to fulfil
those wishes according to the preponderating interests of
Europe. If the house agreed to this resolution, it would
be entering upon a most dangerous course, and so far from
doing good to the people of the Principalities by a recogni-
tion of their independence from the conferences about to
be held, it would be the last thing for their interests and
for the interests of this country. It was upon these
grounds that he called upon the house not to assent to this
resolution, which invited us, in fact, to be parties to a
dismemberment of the Turkish empire. (Cries of "No,
no.") That he maintained was the tendency of the reso-
lution, and it was not for the interests of the very people
whose interests it was the object of the right hon. gentle-
man to promote. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DEASY thought that the hon. gentleman who had
just sat down had failed to give any answer to the case of
the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone). One complaint
he made was as to the time when this resolution was
brought forward, namely, just before the Conferences of
Paris. But it was just because the question was to be
irrevocably decided by these conferences that the decision
of this house should be asked upon it. If they waited till
after the conferences it would be too late. The house was
called upon to express an opinion for the purpose of in-
structing our own Minister as to the course he should pur-
sue. The hon. gentleman said they were called ups n to
dismember the Turkish empire ; but these provinces never
Were portions of the Turkish empire. The relation to that
"Wire was that of treaty. The capitulation of 1460
defined the nature of that relationship, and by it the
Wallachian nation was to have the free enjoyment of
their own liberties. That was the origin of the con-
nection between Turkey and Wallachia. The relation-
111,,hip between the Turkish empire and the province of
°Muria, originated in a similar way, and its effect
:was the same. It was true that these treaties might
have been subsequently modified, and at the Treaty of
-ruin it was considered that all previous treaties were
annulled, Mt by that treaty they were declared entitled
to the privileges of which they were then in possession,
and then came the arrangement by which the Sultan
agreed to convoke the Divans of the two Provinces, for
the purpose of ascertaining the expression of the popular
feeling as to the form of Government the people would
prefer. The Conferences were about to assemble to consider
that question. The French Minister had undertaken to
make the Danubian Provinces independent, and the Eng-
lish Minister had undertaken to support him, and when
such intention was expressed, what said Ali Pacha ? Did
he object that they were a portion of the Turkish Empire?
No ; he only objected that they were about doing a thing
contrary to the wishes of the people of the Pr incipality and
upon this it was agreed that no conclusion should be come
to' ntil the wishes of the people of the Principalities were
ascertained, and it was for that reason that the Porte un-
dertook to convoke full and free assemblies of the repre-
sentatives of the people. These Conferences at Paris were
about to be held to determine this question, and that was
the state of the case. In the House of Commons they ought
to give some support to the wishes of the people of the
Principalities. Those wishes had been expressed in full
and free Divana held for that purpose. In the Moldavian
Assembly 81 out of 84 voted for the union of the P • .
palities, and only 2 against it. In the Wallachia
bly 94 out of 100 voted for the union, and only 6 roetmed-
against it. Mr. Johnson, an English traveller then in the
Principalities, bore testimony to the admirable manner in
Which business was conducted in these assemblies. That,
therefore was the expression of the wishes of the Walla-
chian and Moldavisn people, and could we, after having
made ourselves parties to the treaty of Paris, refuse to give
effect to their wishes. What was it for which they in-
voked those Conferences but that they should give autho-
rity to those wishes. But it was now proposed to negative
those wishes. They should be careful how they acted, for
in these provinces they had a special interest. There they
had large commercial interest. Upon them we depended
for a considerable supply of food. They had, therefore, a
solid interest in maintaining their independence, and he
believed that -filiation numbering five millions of people on
that bank of the Danube would be the beet barrier against
the aggressions of Russia. He contended the house should
aid the wishes of a people hitherto oppressed, but he hoped
to be so no longer. If the Conferences decided against
them they would be bound by force to establish a form of
government opposed to the express will of the people, and
„against the adoption of that policy he protested. It had
DOen tried before, after the former treaty of Paris, in the
case of Belgium and other countries; but the result was,
that those Governments, so forced upon the people, were
tuermponintaiti,:dpby forcible disruptio, s. If they now forced
wishes of the
lities a Government contrary to the
those revolutionarye it would be terminated by one of
and establish a form of
to which he had alluded,
2aoviernment like that which they
now asked to obtain,
then be ? They would haven towhat a position would they
-oork to a Russian or an
Austrian occupation, or submit
to
which they had assented, torn in pieceasvtlftehriestitireiratr
He trusted, for these reasons, that they would not run
counter to the wishes of the people. All they were asked
to establish on the banks of the Danube was a Government
which they had already instituted on the banks of the
Nile—a course which, he maintained, would be for the
benefit of the Turkish empire, and, he believed, also for
the interests ef humanity. (Hear, hear.)
-Lord R. CECIL had listened with attention to the argu-
ments of his right hon. friend in support of his motion,
and he considered those arguments most forcible; while,
on-the other hand, he regarded those of the hon. gentle-
man the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs were
feeble, and of a nature calculated only to defend a bad
cause and bad cases. The hon. gentleman, for instance,
stated that should the house assent. to the motion cf Mr.
Gladstone, they would be aband ern's.. all that they went
to war for. Now, what did they go to war for? They went
to war to maintain in all its expansion, integrity, and in-
dependence' the Turkish empire against the designs and
invasion of
Rusaia;thbue but y
dwit h regard to the independence of
the Principalities,
the not go to war to aid any power
in subjugating them dominion of Turkey. He would
suggest to the hon. gentlemanowr shouldparallel e case.ize
upon S u
opnpeo
oe ,f
for instance, that any
the lonian islands, would tte hon,Brit gentleman say that,
that was an invasion of the
re-
scuing the Danubian Principalitielssilf empire ? But in
rom the aggressie n of
Russia, it was not contemplated to 13071,1 them over, as en-
slaved appendages to the rapacity
gentleman the Under Secretary for iseurerl'ey. The hon.
principles
re-
ferred to certain pipers, as illustrative of the
upon which the Principalities were to remain
tsaubei.ecatntoi
Turkey; but those papers were not laid on the
the house, therefore, had no means of knowing the ccn-
tents of those papers. Ho (Lord R. Cecil) would, haw-
ever, quote, from the resolutions of the Divan, certain pas-
sages which showed the principles upon which Turkey pro-
posed to bind the Principalities to her, and to give her
complete dominion over them. The noble lord here read
an abstract of the resolutions, which hid it down as a
Principle that the Danubian provinces should be bound to
Turkey by a bond of union, binding them inseparably,
and subjecting the provinces to entire Turkish dominiou.
lie hoped the motion of his right hon. friend would be
Zgroed to by the house, and he was satisfied, should it not,
that the effect of its rejection would be very serious on the
provinces- It was necessary for this house to interpose,
and so
express the opinion of the British nation, respect•
ing her
them views in relation to the Principalities, as to save
Bera from being handed over to the rapacity of Turkey.
'l warned the house, that in consn ting the feelings anti
wishes
.oet,her European nations with regard to the
Policy; at';',l .they were pursuing a very questionable
the case of their conduct towards other
l'ati°ns, he hoped their course towards the people of the
Deffs_eneutsb.ianmperaorv:hnecaers.)would not be professions without
Mr ROEBUCK said the interference of England with
foreign
iseel , countries had seldom proved advantageous to the
cause of those nations in whose behalf her interference was
ezerc
and whose objects she endeavoured to support.

Lord PALMERSTON.—Sir, I never beard a debate in
which, if I may be permitted to say so, those who have
taken a part seemed to understand so little of the
facts of the case. From what has passed this evening it
might be supposed that the question at issue was whet er
these Principalities were to be subjected to the tyrannical
and oppressive government of a Turkish paths, or whether
they were to have self-government and be ruled by chiefs
belonging to themselves, and have representative govern-
ment. That seems to be the alternative which the hon.
and learned member for Sheffield appeared to consider to
be the matter at issue; and the hon. and learned member
for Cork (Sergeant Deasy) seemed to think that the ques-
tion was, whether we should comply with the wishes of the
Danubian Principalities, by placing them in the same rela-
tion to Turkey in which Egypt stands, or whether we
should make them in a greater and more strict degree sub-
ject to Turkey. But none of these questions are really the
questions at issue. The real question at issue is, that
which has been so well stated by the Under-Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs, viz., whether we should take a
course which would infallibly be the first step towards the
separation of those two states from the Turkish empire,
and thus commence the dismemberment of that empire.
The right hon. gentlemen the member for Oxford has ea-
deavoured to refine end draw a distinction between a pro-
vince and a country ruled by a sovereign, If I understand
his argument it was that, inasmuch ae these provinces were
only under the suzerainte of Turkey, that meant nothing
at all, and that they were free and independent, though
forming a portion of the Turkish empire. The hon. and
learned member for Cork read a treaty, •by which it ap-
peared that in 1460 these provinces acknowledged the
Sultan should have supremacy over the sovereign of their
country that seems to be something like " sovereignty,"
and that sovereignty was a part of the dominions of the
supreme authority. If these provinces were not a part of
the Turkish empire, how came my right hon. friend the
member for Oxford to be a party to a war which would
only stand justified upon the ground that they were a part
of the Turkish empire ? Can it be supposed that the Go-
vernment of that day would have called upon England ?
Can it be supposed that the Emperor of the French
would hove called upon France, and that the other
Powers of Europe would have united to protect
the population of Moldavia and Wallachia from
Russian aggression, if these provinces had been a separate
and independent ate ? Much as we might all have re-
gretted the invasion of their territory, and the annihilation
of their rights, I do not think that the nations of Europe
would have taken up arms and made that sacrifice of
blood and treasure which they did make for the purpose
of saving these provinces from the aggression of Russia.
It was because of an encroachment upon the territories and
independence of Turkey, the integrity of which was con-
sidered essential to the balance of power iu Europe,—it
was on that ground, and on that ground alone, that the
Government of that day called on the people of England
to take up arms, and to resist that invasion. Well then,
I say that, if we look to the ancient history of these pro-
vinces, I believe I may say that from the time they ceased
to be a part of the Roman Empire down to the present
period they always have been two separate stases; and,
therefore, that which we are now called upon to sanction
is something totally different from anything which has ever
existed before in regard to these Principalities. But has
their connexion with Turkey been a state of oppression ?
On the contrary, if these two nations have suffered, it has
been from foreign aggression, from military occupation—
first by Russia and then by Austria, though for a different
purpose and with different views. It is the occupation of
these provinces by foreign troops which has been the cause
of grievance and complaint, suffering and impoverishment,
and not their relations to the Turkish empire. The con-
dition of their connexion with Turkey was that the should
be self-governed, that there should be no Turkish troops
within their limits, that they should be ruled by native
chiefs, and have such an internal organisation as they
thought fit. Secondly, it was agreed that they should ac-
knowledge supremacy on the part of the Sultan, make a
payment of tribute, and render military assistance in case
of foreign aggression. I say, therefore, sir, that it is a
fallacy to argue that what we are now called upon to de-
cide is whether these nations should or should not be free.
Free they are, free they have been, and free we intend
them to be. The question is, not whether their internal
freedom shall be taken from them, and they shall be sub-
jected to the tyranny of a Turkish pacha. The ques-
tion is, What shall be the conditions of that free-
dom which the Towers of Europe are pledged by the
treaty of Paris to secure to them ? It is said that we are
called upon by the national honour and by national en-
gagements to yield to the motion of my right hon. friend
the member for Oxford University. I deny that the
Treaty of Paris made any engagement of that sort. In the
conferences which took place opinions were expressed by
the French and by the English Plenipotentiaries that such
au arrangement might be desirable; but no decision was
come, and further deliberations were arranged to take
place. The question which was to be referred, under the
article of the Treaty of Paris, was not simply the question
of union or of separation, but a question of internal orga-
nisation. It was a misrepresentation, when we were re-
ferred to the Reglement Organique as an expression of the
feelings of the people in foreshadowing and suggesting the
union of the two provinces. Who were its authors ? It
was a Russian document. (Hear, hear.) If it anticipated
a union of the two provinces it was a Russian view of the
matter, and not a Moldavian, Wallachian, or Turkish.
It is quite true that this question of union was one of the
matters which the Divans were not precluded from con-
sidering as a part of their organisation. We are told that
faith has been broken with these peeple—that the condi-
tions of the treaty of Paris have not been fulfilled. Why,
they have been fulfilled ! (Hear, hear.) Divans for the
purpose--Divan ad hoc as they were called—were con-
voked. It is said that they were elected with great regu-
larity, and it i 3 said that their proceedings were well con-
ducted ; but the house may well imagine the electoral pro-
ceedingsai t tally
learnedl yf aa
n people unused to the system of election, and
agitated by foreign agitators for a particular purpose. As
to their 'lebates, I have heard accounts which do not en-
tirely"
subtle intrigues"ie well
open. It itelintbheerletterfor
C which h
Ithas
is beensaid read by bthyerthe ewhoenre.
cause of these excitements
this questinpneotiftion
known that
which
set on foot • they were not subtle, but
because theMorfddzi prevailedforeign ge
incy rowgaasrathteo
union and separation. The Divans did
rities which could lioioni
un-
doubtedly,fora union, not in the first instance,
an Divan was known to be adverse to
the question
which were paramount, and it
beAdd‘o.annietadg;e
twhaasttarinvaonf
wirareagsuelnat-
about its business, and another was elected tinder influ-
ences Under
pSheucerete Y
What union! Why
statedvoti f
byo r union.the
for
ForeaigunnioAnffsavihrisch(kars.
prince. It was on that conditionthe provinces under a foreign
S. Fitzgerald) would
u that they were for a union,
and not under any other cir
they be ? For obvious reason:alVdesaaidwould never sub-
athlleamchisau,bninoi‘ty"uablleacrhuilaedtob
nanpdrince sent by the
And why should
avia. Nor would
meiitthetor
ofW
Sultan. They want of resign prince, and
foreign prince be? Why, they are all of whothe wouldro that
eon, and would they take a Catholic? I doubtwhether a
Catholic prince would be permitted by the five to
rule over the country. Russia would raise objections s
placing any but a Greek prince r n that throne, and whet))
will they find the Greek prince? In the Russian royal
family, to be sure. (Hear, hear.) Let the house be assureda
that union under a foreign prince means union under a
prince of the Russian family. How is a Catholic prince to

E SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EV ENING MAY
.aintain himself against all the Greek influences whi, of the noble lord the member for Stamford, although put
_ ..._
'1 be brought to bear upon him ? Why, by leaning fc forth with considerable confidence are not the opinions of
or bon
on that power which would sway those Greek in one who bas given sufficient thought to the subject on which
es. But, whether the prince were Catholic or Greek, he has spoken to-night. But that those opinions should be
ld be equally obliged to become a vassal of Russia, in any degree sanctioned by the right hon. gentleman the
#o secure the geed. wit of the Greek?. I say, there,- member for Oxford is to me a matter, indeed, of astonish-
the appointment of a fonign prince would be e meet. On the ground of that policy I would deprecate the
'the first step towards a separation. Would auy ex house sanctioning the carrying of this resolution. I can as-
eovern a country of four or live millions, pr sure the house that at this moment it will be impossible
be tho vassal of the Sultan ? No. He would of for the House of Commons to take a step more enabarras-
n lence, and independence he would soon men sing to the conduct of the Government of this country—
on, would be a small country of four or woul (heir, hear)—a conduct carried on in entire accordance
surrounded by Russia, Austria, and crease with the policy which the general view of this country
nopulations. How could that little friend, has so long sanctioned. No moment would be more incon-
venient— I am not putting it upon that basis which is so
often justly ridiculed, that it is always inconvenient to give
'Pteoneineencoer?toj the
13 e wouldothe necessarilyother,
me that such a State could be any and pros, an opinion after an event, but I say that if indeed this
lay that a country with four or such a pe, strong feeling bad been entertained by the right hon.
o r - in Russia.
the
a military barrier against co- sien and i gentleman, it is deeply to be regretted that so
Thus the end of their foreign hear )—a ha great a delay has taken place in bringing forward
ul.l establish a scene of in- treaty. Th., this subject for the consideration of Parliament. At
• a detrimental to the peace In the divisit this very moment, when there exists between the two
allow the fate of Poland, whom that an Governments of England and France the most complete
-1 between Russia and depeFted from identity of opinion on this subject, that an address of this
it the people of Wal Belgium with , kind should be offered to the house I shdil ever deplore.
rt is a short-sighted was joined to H, But; not taking that large view of the question, but adopt-
and Moldavians body knows the ieg a view which must touch the feelings of every gentle-
-
ight hon. gentle- and demanded a man, no matter on which side of the house be may happen
rt and to assist governed theme-31v to sit—namely, the condition of the Principalities them-
ought not to the Belgians, whose selves—l equally lament and deprecate this motion. I
by, by the from Os-ire. These equally lament and deprecate this motion. I think that
there is at this moment a prospect, and something more
4lie meet- dosn under King Le than a prospect, not of rising up in the Danubian coun-
llussia pre- in 1832, Belgium wa,
rded its made by my noble Iris tries a fantastic kingdom or a phantom of independence,
eblies, was then Foreign Seer but of raising that:country to the enjoyment of a greater
these had been a strong natiot share of civil rights' and even of political liberty, than has
'led enjoyed their own constit ever been enjoyed by any population on that great stream.
or here, and their free press. And believing, as I do, that there is a prospect, and more
and I believe nothing woul than a prospect, of attaining so great and desirable an
likely to create resistance, a. end, I entreat the house, on every ground connected with
or any other foreign influenc the future prosperity of those countries not to sanction an
utters which those who e address which if carried would lead to consequences of the
'etimes neglect to take in most fearful character to this country and to Europe.
tto remember, in makiub ("Hear, hear," and cheers.)
etent of a people, the love Mr. GLADSTONE said he would detain the house but
form a barrier against i a few minutes; yet, having heard the speech of the right
he most skilfully drew!. hon. gentleman he thought it necessary to remind the
'ions as to the arranges. house of the nature of the question before it. The right
ink the house ought t, hon. gentleman had been most liberal to him and others
'eland (hear) for i of his commendations and eulogies on eloquence which
1 that the Gevernn had been displayed, and which seemed to have made a
sent to consult the I strong impression on his mind ; and he bad lavished his
ommit the faith of t compliments on what he called the rhetorician of the day.
,e justice of the stet He (Mr. Gladstone) would not be guilty of the affectation
'sat we are too often of modesty in order to pretend that he did not understand
ens to ascot thei, that that designation was intended for himself—
ence, and then c. The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER (jumping
'seers.) up from his seat)—l beg your pardon ; I really did not
erobria nobis mean that. (Loud and long-continued laughter.)
non potuisse re Mr. GLADSTONE said the right bon. gentleman had
this, coming fe entirely satisfied hie (Mr. Gladstone's) mind. The right
a is exciting . hon. gentleman had drawn largely on his own powers of
int, we are ab oratory. What were the sesquipedalian words he employed
eloped of th in the long catalogue of horrors which he had presented to
ntment, his the house ? ' Do not," said he, " let us have your phan-
her Majest tactic interference. If you do, the consequence will be
lot to sup, confusion, anarchy, armed intervention, European war ;"
acipalities and then he relieved the dark side of the picture by words
4o Bulges from which a single grain of meaning could not be ex-
-a unite, tracted. He intimated that if the English Government
',ey will wore only let alone, they would shower down blessings on
the Principalities with a more liberal hand than had ever
—Sir, been opened for their advantage. He (Mr. Gladstone) did
only not ask for any interference, fantastic or otherwise. The
house was not called upon to decide anything now, or to
Tema express an opinion on anything which was original, or
"rod. which bad been introduced for the first time. They were
of not asked to bind the hands of the Paris Conference, or to
place the Principalities under a foreign prince. (Hear.)
I He only asked the house to maintain the principle laid
down in 1856 by the Paris Conference, namely, that the
Principalities should be united. The noble lord (the
member for Tiverton) and the Earl of Clarendon had in
1856 sanctioned that principle ; and if it were not, the
fruits of the late war would be sacrificed. The question
now was, whether we were going to abandon the policy
which had been declared, and the pledges held out to the
population of the Principalities. (Hear, hear.)
The house then divided, The numbers were—
For the motion
Against it.
Majority against the motion -178
THE CAGLIARI.

maintain himself against all the Greek influences which wee in consequence always a number of families intriguing
will be brought to bear upon him ? Why, by leaning for against the reigning hospodar, who would get up corn-
support on that power which would sway those Greek in- plaints, and carry them to the Sultan, in order to get him
fluences. But, whether the prince were Catholic or Greek, deposed. In that way the state of these province.; was
he would be equally obliged to become a vassal of Russia, constantly disturbed, in consequence of the intrigues of the
in order to secure the geod wit of the Greeks. I say, there- nobility against the reigning family. Then they say, and
fore, that the appointment of a foreign prince would be I think very reasonably, let us have a prinse who is not
necessarily the first step towards a separation. Would any subject to these influences —let us h ‘ve a foreign
prince, fit to govern a country of four or live millions, prince. Let us imagine what would be the state
long submit to be the vassal of the Sultan? No. He would of things then. They would have that self-goveru-
aspire to independence, and independence he would soon meat which, but for the interference oft Russia, they
obtain. Here, then, would be a small country of four or would have enjoyed very many years, and they would in
five million people, surrounded by Russia, Austria, and crease iu wealth and prosperity. But, says my noble-
Turkey, with large populations. How could that little friend, that would be no barrier against the designs of
State maintain its indepenlence? It would necessarily be-
Russ It appears, on the contrary, that ape ople enjoy-
come subservient either to one or to the other, or follow the in„ the benefit of self-government, increasing in wealth
fate of Poland. Don't tell 'us that such a State could be any and prosperity— a people in the enjoymeut of liberty—that
barrier against Russia. To say that a country with four or such a people form the best barrier against foreign aggres-
million of people would be a military barrier against co- sion and foreign conquests that can be devisee—(hear,
lossal Russia is an absurdity. Thus the end of their foreign hear)—a barrier far better and more effective than any
princes would be that they would establish a scene of in- treaty. That has been the result in other parts of Europe
trigure between Austria and Russia detrimental to the peace In the division of Europe in 1815 those wise persons by
and well-being of the country, or follow the fate of Poland, whom that arrangement was fleetly made, it is well known,
an Ibe absorbed by Russia, or divided between Russia and departed from the plau of Mr. Pitt, with regard to uniting
Austria. Would such a result benefit the people of Wal- Belgium with Prusna -in that final arrangement Belgium
lachia and Moldavia. Far from it. It is a short-sighted was joined to Holland, and what was the result ? Every-
policy- even towards the Wallechians and Moldavians body knows that Belginui speedily became discontented
Governed themselves very well, had not the art to govern
themselves, to wish for that which the right hon. gentle- and demanded a separation The Dutch, though they
in establishing. But we are told that we ought not to the Belgians, whose language, religion, cad habits differed
man urges upon the Goeernment to support and to assist g
deny them representative institutious. Why, by the Loin tie ere. There wag get or 1 discontent ; and at last,
Organic Statutes they ought to have them but Russia pre- in 1832, Belgium was ere.to 1 into au ind .rendent king-
vented them from meeting, or so arranged that the meet- doin under King Leopold. That was au arrangement
ings were merely sham. The Congress of Paris recorded its made by my noble friend the member f,r Tiverton, who
opinion that they should have representative assemblies, was then Foreign Secretary ; and ever since then there
and it was to ascertain their views and wishes that these had been a strong national re irit in Belgium. They have
Divans were held ; but these unhappy Divans, carried enjoyed their own constitution, their representative cham-
away by the agitation and intrigues of those who had other leers, and their free press. They value those institutions,
interests to serve, refuse to go into all their real paints, and I believe nothing would be so irksome to them, or so
and confined themselves to the unattainable object, as I likely to create resistance, as any attempt to extend French
will call it, the separation from Turkey under the rule of a or any other foreigu influence iu that country. These are
foreign sovereign. I say, therefo:e, it is not for the into- matters which those who negotiate diplomatic treaties
rest o the Principalities themselves, or in accordance with sometimes neglect to take into consideration. But they
the engagement of the treaty of Paine, that the address ought to remember, in making those arrangements, that
which the right hon. gentleman proposes should be acceded the content of a people, the love of a people for their insti-
to. We are dealing with this matter as if we were met in tutions, form a barrier against foreign foes more success-
congress at Vienna in 1815, when the map of Europe was ful than the most skilfully drawn treaties. These, then,
spread out, to be divides according to the wishes of the are my opinions as to the arrangements which ought to be
parties immediately concerned. But it should be remem- made. I think the house ought to feel indebted to my
bered that we made waragainst Russia for the maintenance right hon. friend (hear) for bringing forwar 1 the
and integrity of the Turkish empire. We concluded the subject. I feel that the Governments which at Paris
treaty of Paris for that purpose, and now we are called made an engagement to consult the Principalities, did, to
upon, as the result of that successful war waged to main- a certain extent, commit the faith of this country. (Hear,
tain the independence of Turkey, and in accordance with hear.) I feel also the justice of the statement made by the
that treaty, agreed to for the same purpose, to take a step noble lord opposite, that we are too often licensed of giving
encouragement to nations to asesrt their liberties and to
which the Turkish Government, and which I should hope
every reasonable person would think would be the first proclaim their innependence, and then calmly and coldly
step towards the dismemberment of the Turkish empire. deserting,their cause. (Cheers.)
Such a course of proceeding would, in my opinion, be tan- ' Pudet et brae opprobria nobis
tamouut to stultifying ourselves, and would be in opposi- Et dici potuisse et non potuisse refelli."
tion to the great interests of the country. I hope, therefore, It is painful in such a case as this, coming forward at the
the house will not be led away by the eloquence of the time when the ease of Ser iinia is exciting attention, to
right hon. gentleman, and accede to the motion, which find that after giving encouragement, we are about to with-
is adverse to the fundamental policy of the country; ad- draw from the Principalities the support of this country.
verse to the engagements of the country, as entered into It will give rise not only to disappointment, but the com-
by the Treaty of Paris; which cannot be of advan-
plaint of want of faith. I think thit her Majesty's pleni-
tage to the inhabitants of the Principalities them- potentiary should have instructions not to support the
selves; which may lead to European dissension, if placing of a foreign prince over the Principalities, whose
not to European war ; which can be of no benefit to aim it would be to extend his dominion into Bulgaria, but
the Principalities, as they would have the same advan- that they should have a united government—a united legis-
tepees of trade, commerce, military arrangements, and lature. If they have this I believe that they will give
laws, separate as if united. While separate they would security to the future peace of Europe.
continue to have the additional security which their con- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir, the
nexion with Turkey would give them ; whereas, if they noble lord who has just sat down thinks that it is only by
a
were left amiddespoticaed military states, theirfate would adopting the address moved for by the right hon. gentleman
speech dilemma.
the member for Oxford that we can extricate ourselves from
on the
etztel em
houseau
be sealsd, their representative assemblies would be quashed,
neighbouring military and arbitrary powers would come
has in thathi
s eloquent
eloquence
down upon them, and they would become the tool of a dilemma. It appears to me that if we adopt that motion of
Russia, or be partitioned, like Poland, between Austria the right hon. gentleman, we shall find ourselves in a
and Russia. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, the Under-Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs asks us how it is that the house should was calculated to bring forth, for his address was conceived
be called upon to interfere in this matter of the Danubian produced The
rai gn
he
tff hon,ecto
in a generous spirit—its object was a generous one. Now, t
Principalities, and has found fault with my right hon. this present moment, on this subject, there is, between the
friend the member for Oxford University as if he were pro- Government of her Majesty and that of France, a perfect
posing that the house should dictate to the powers of Eu- unanimity ofsentiment, of • dofpolicy,
views,an
rope in conference assembled. To the first of these ques- and truestand in few days the
sense;
tions I answer that here is a question to which the good these two governments will be prepared to maintain, to r
faith of England is pledged—(hear, hear)—and I ask, can commend, and to enforce that policy, Now, how it
t
wille -
it be a matter of indifference to the House of Commons facilitate that policy that at this moment the House of
that the good faith of England should under any circum- Commons should come forward, on the eve of the corn-
stances be called in question ? I hold that whether our mencement of negotiations, and carry an address like this
to the Crown, embarrassing the English representative
character for good faith stands high or is impaired is a Frencr ve
without in any way embarrassing the b
represents
matter that the House of Commons must necessarily feel tive, Ido not see. On the contrary, I think thatth
at
will
some interest in ; it is not one that they can afford to pass place us in a dilemma. (Hear ) And, air, the noble lord
by as if it did not concern them. (Hear, hear.) But with who has just addressed us has told us that the honour of
regard to the hon. gentleman's second question, I should thistbie hqouuessteieobf Paanrldiazetntwaenadreoftat country is involved in
say that my right hon. friend (as I understand his motion)
in accordance with the engagementsg ainctoourwsebrclii2ich is not
w
does not propose to say what the powers of Europe should entered. That, sir, is a very serious charge. We
eae have
does
give as their opinions in the conferences of Paris, but merely guardians of the honour of this country in this house. But
before come we cos to a vote which
may have an influence upon
says what in the opinion of the House of Commons should the
coarse of events which few, perhaps, in this house
be the language of our plenipotentiary. (Hear, hear.) It prepared to anticipate, we ought to have a cleari areeaof
is not my right hon. friend's wish to Bay what should be the engagements into which this country bar really entered
the language of the other powers of Europe. But if we on this subject. (Hear.) Therefore, I must refer to the
articles of the treaty. They ar.o beien but if they were
are informed correctly, I believe lam right in saying that long I should not apologise on reading them when so grave
the language of Great Britain in these conferences has not a statement has been made. Now, here are the articles. •
been confined to expressing her own views, but has been I find in article 22 of the Treaty of Paris, " The Princii-•
used to influence other powers. (Hear.) Coming, however, palities of Wallachia and Moldavia shallte continue to en-
, under the surainty of the Port and the guaraetee
to the question itself. I look upon it as one of great mag ni-
joufythe contracting powers, the privileges and immunities
tude, and as one that must cause considerable anxiety,
of which they were in possession. No exclusive protec-
(Hear.) I agree with the Under Secretary of State, that we tion shall be exercised over them by any of the contracting
ought not to set up any power in the Principalities that powers, and there shall he no separate right of inter-
should be in any way snivel to that power whose integrity
is ference in their internal affairs." (Hear.) Who then,
prepared ss to aert that anyone who has boo, or is
and independence we are bound by the treaty, in common
Minister of this country is trying to recede from this en- 1
with the other powers to that treaty, to maintain. We are
gagement ? There is another article to which I will refer.
bound in good faith not only directly to protect the lute- " His Majesty the Sultan promises to convoke in each of
grity of which we guaranteed, and for the sake of which the provinces a Divan ad hoc chosen in such a manner as
we went to war with Russia, but we should not make any to represent all interests These Divans shall be called
arrangement by which that integrity would be impaired upon to express the wishes of the people in regard to the
and the independence of that power diminished. So far, organisation of the Principalities." Who desires that any.
I agree with the hon. gentleman. But let us see what the expression by this Divan with regard to the interior orga-
condition of the Principalities is, and what is that we have nisation of the Principalities should not be respected ?
undertaken. In the 15th century certain stipulations were We have just heard from thunoble lord that a joint legis-
made between the Sultan and the rulers of these Principe- lature is most desirable. But no engagement exists on the
lities, by which a certain tribute was to be paid to the part of this country for the establishment of a joint legis-
Sultan, but in which the largest powers of self-govern- lature. In dealing with this subject we must have re-
ment were reserved to the rulers of these Principalities— ference to the engagements of treaties and to the rights of
powers extending even to the making of treaties and to powers. You cannot settle a question
of this kind by a
the making of war. These regulations, it is true, were not brilliant oration—turning this house into a divan ad hoc.
very strictly observed ; the Sultan frequently violated (A laugh.) You must look to the rights and obligations of
them, and Russia found an opportunity during the reign the parties—that, at least,
of Catherine of interfering, and of asserting a power of in- lord (J. Russell) when he was the opinion of the noble
terference and a power of meddling with that portion of Sovereign at Vienna. Nothing
was the representative of his
othing could be more statesmanlike
the Turkish empire by treaties she made after successful than the expressions of the
noble lord at Vienna when he ob-
wars.
wars. Those powers of interference had been carried so served—" Though in the discussion of the first point of the
far by various treaties, that at length there was hardly any negotiation I have not touched on several questions, such
transaction in any part of the internal government of the as the union of the two
Principalities,
Principalities with which Russia did not claim the rightof importance had escaped
me,
it was not that their
e, but it seemed to me that the
interfering. That being the case, when the war between consideration of aproposition
Russia and France and Great Britain broke out, those sovereign Porte." (Cheers of this kind belonged to the
and laughter.) But we do not
Principalities, according to their organic statutes, had now seem to have from the noble lord that consideration
complete power of self-government. They could make their for the views of the Ottoman Government which the noble
own laws as to religion, their own laws for regulating lord expressed when at Vienna At that time the noble
commerc a and trade, and their own laws respecting the lord went deeply into the consideration of this question,
administration of justice. In short their whole internal not taking it up merely as a topic of deb eta, but wiedding
government, so far as the Porte was concerned, was ind e- it under the weight of the -whichattached
responsibility
pendent. But the interference of Russia, as I have said, to him as a plenipotentiary taking ' part in affairs having
was frequently employed in intriguing with respect to the for their object the settlement of Europe. The noble lord
internal affairs of those provinces, andagainst the influence in his despatches at that time, dlf lf Ik '
should statesman, expresse imse ie a
of the Porte. Well, sir, when we had settled what
be the terms of peace, if the first object was that Russiat always does. (Laughter.) The noble lord then thus ex-
should no longer have the power of control ?and perpetual pressed himself :—" With regard to the other point, as to
interference which she had formerly exercised, the quern establishment of a power ire the Principalities, such power
tion naturally arise what was to be the state of the Printer- would scarcely long remain a vassal to the Porte."
palities themselves. That was a question of great ail:Seal Y, (Cheers But we have heard to-night sernethine of the
because, when the powers of Europe were ready to place P ache of Egypt ; let na see what the noble lord has in
themselves in the position in which Russia Lai previously former times said of the Pacha of Egypt. The noble lord
stood, so far as guaranteeing the privileges of thesePrlng
pez saidlikely
that the Pacha of Egypt was through religious feelings
Mice as against Turkey, it led to a discussion of what
t. to remain a vassal of the Porte, but that a Christian
privileges should be, and besides being the duty, it ass
slat., (Hear)ould be, for all practical purposes, independent.
interest of the great powers to make those privilege! s s e
with regard to their internal position and their internal free institutions—alluding to an independent or quasi inde
peace, in order to prevent the necessity of the interference pendent state ---it must be remarked that the sovereigns of
could do. Austria. and •
of any other powers, as in their wisdom they Russia would never tolerate in the neieheour•
have hood of
Those powers, especially England and France, might and rebellions Poland and Hungary promoters of disturbances
taken one of two courses. They might have said we. will amongst their subjects." (Cheers and
consider what is best for the Principalities--we will re-laughter.) I recur to these important
documents, be-
view this organic statute which contains many excellent cause, when we are told that the government and parlia-
provisions, and we will guarantee the statute so revised went of England are about to b 3 false to the engagements
p
and altered—leaving the Principalities with all the privi- which they have entered into, it is of dee engagements
andimportunes
leges they have hitherto enjoyed, and with such improve- that we should, by the light of treaties and oocu-
ments as they may make. No doubt the Principalities ments applying an interpretation to them, see what
would have submitted to that arrangement if it had really these engagements really are, and see,
moreover, the po-
been one that would have contributed to their happiness sition in which those treaties place English honour and
and to the safety of their internal organisation. Or we English interests. (Hear, hear.) But tha noble lordwhen
might have taken another course—we might have said we plenipotentiary took especial care to exhaust the ssubject.will consult the people of the Principalities themselves— Tear, hear.) Speaking of the united provinces, he said,
we will go to the people of Wallaceia and Moldavia and ' The freedom iof discussion and the liberty of the press
ask them to elect representatives—let them say what they would scarcely be sufferen to exist to any large extent.
will have, and then grant their wishes so far as they ao- Disturbancesit would occur, and an armed intervention
cord with the treaty we have concluded. Neither of these follow:tabnedeectwould be difficult to interfere with prudence
courses did we take. But we took a third course, the most and wi ff
houll tis therefore worthy of consideration
unwise and irritating that 'could by any possibility have how we s promote institutions which hereafter we
been adopted. We assembled the Divan—the represents- should be
unablewhole to protect."
(Loud cheers and laughter.)
tives of-the Principalities—and when they had deliberated That is the question. Nothing in the world is so
and expressed their feelings, and agreed almost unani- easy as tocorneto forward, and make representations such as
mously what their wishes were—then you turn round upon we have heard •nugnt, which, when you examine them,
them and say you are a disorderly set—you don'tknow what vanish like
.a fairy_ dream. These descendants of the
you are about—you have been acted upon by external and ancient Damns-. (laughter)--so free, brave, prosperous,
by private influences—you have acted under excitement with whom every generous Heart must sympathise, to att-
end in ignorance of your own interests, and therefore we complish whose destiny every
man would be willing to
will cast to the winds all that you propose and entirely make some sacrifice, are picturesquely and eloquently
neglect your wishes and requests. Now, that appears to me placed before us ; but when we ask ourselves what is the
to be the most unwise course that could have been taken. reality, what is the securityilt that such a perfect at .te of
(Hear.) There has been a great deal of talk here--my right sneiety can be brought o existexce, and kept existing,
hon. friend, my noble friend, and every member who has every practical man. felsee en_ a moment that the entire
spoken in this debate, has talked about the power and in- theory is the mere pictur .ef a generous fancy, one, too,
wo
d
fluonce which Russia will have if these Principalities are which, if encouraged, I eud in consequences which
united as they desire. Why, sir, it seems to me that we would effort? a painfu , nay, an awful contrast to the
have paved the way for Russia—we have opened the road dream in which for a moment we might have indulged.
for her. Last year I stated that it was quite obvious that (Cheer F.) We ought to consider ;the position of the
without your interference the influence of Russia in the limited population scattered over a sonsiderable region.
Principalities was secured. For if you set up a prince No doubt there is great undeveloped wealth and re-
over Moldavia he would naturally look to Russia to increase sources in the provinces, but the people, as cone
his power by uniting the two provinces. He would know pared with the territory are not that multitude which
that the other great powers could not forward his views. gives strength to a state. (dear, hear.)
We ought to
He would be dissatisfied, and the whole of the inhabi- remember that these four or five millions of
beings are
taste of the province would become discontented be- surrounded by powerful military states, having all the or-
cause Great Britain and France had refused th • 'te f governments. rio
their ganisa ion e despotic w are we to aid
desires, ens they would turn to Russia as the
power them, hew to support them, nwe do to maintain
that could assist them in attaining their object. So that them? It is not by speeches in the House of Comus
you have so contrived it that whether you grant or refuse (cheers)—it is not by votes even of the House of Commons
the wishes of the Principalities, you increase the influence that you can maintain a factitious independence like this.
of Russia- The only way, as it appears to me, to get (Cheers.) We must therefore consider this question in as
out of this dilemma is the course proposed by my right practical a 'neither as possible. What are the engagements
hon. friend. (Hear, hear.) The Under-Secretary for Fo- pinto which this country has entered ? I have read them
reign Affairs tells us (and he read a paper to the house to the house ? I have read them to the house. Those en-
upon the subject which I had never heard of before) that ga ements we ought to fulfil, not only to the letter but
Wellachie. will not hear of this union unless she has to- the t • ought to exercise ell our a to spirt ,we power and all
reign prince to rule over her. Is that to be understood as the influence which we justly possess to obtain for these
(Cheers.)
come formal declaration of the two provinces ? Have they provinces good government sad self-government.
come to any formal resolution to that effect ? And if so, We ouglet to obtain that—and I believe that we
(ran obtain
what has been said to them ? Have we no commissioner that—with the cordial co-operation of the French Govern-
there? : believe that we have employed there one of the /writ. Doing that we not only fulfil all our engagements,
ablest men in our whole diplomacy. Have you said to hut we ob sin all that is practicabl tto desire eon the wee.
them, will yon take the union without the foreign prince, fare of these Principalities. But if we take any other
or will you accept a prince from some part of the Turkish course—if on the one hand WO entirely neglectt
them— we
empire? Has that question ever been put to them ? Have should iudee 1 cause a stain upon our honour; if, on the
they ever been asked, and if so, have they ever re- other, we encourage any fantastic settlement, we cast the
fused? For unless they have it is Most unfair for a Seers- seeds forth of inevitable ruin; ,we encourage intervention
tary of State to 'come down here and say that if wo grant —the armed intervention ot "le noble lord-- and
inter-
four-liftles of their demand they will not be content unless fthe tof the great military pow
era Terence on par era ;we en-
we grant the other fifth. That appears to me to be a pro. courage hopes which eve shall then be bound in honour to
posal that might be made. I believe it is a proposal they support, and wo may be drawn into a war—a European war
would accept—viz., to have a union of the Principalities, —the end of which no man can foresee, the cost and ruin of
but with some person to rule over them not connected which no man can foretsl. (Cheers.) It is impossible to
with either of the great Powers of Europe—one that should eeneeiee a coarse more impolitic than that which has been
not be a Prussian prince or a member of any of the great recommended to us to-night. You have undergone great
families of Europe, bat one who is acquainted with their sacrifices in blood and in treasure in the course of the last
habits, manners, arid customs.' I think the hon. gentle- war ; aro you prepared to take a course to-night which win
man said they would not like to have a prince who would involveu to a policy the consequences of which will be to
be liable to be deposed, and it is no doubt the constant 61e- you iu another ? Are you prepared to entangle
position of their hosnodars that has been the great cause yourself in difficulties to be followed by fresh ig comp ica-
of the discord and difficulties of these Principalities. The tions, ns, offering another theme at some future period to the
Sultan reserved to himself the right of deposing, and there rhetori;ian of the day ? I must say that I think the liews

Ox the SPEAKER calling upon Mr. Kinglake, who had a
motion on t'le paper with reference to the Cagliari,
Mr. RINGLAKE said that at that late hour he could not
feel justified in proceeding with his motion, but ho should
like to ask a question with reference to the liberation of the
Sardinian crew.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD said the continual postponements
of this important question was much tl be regretted. He
had hoped that the explanation made by a noble lord in
another place would have been as satisfactory to the hon.
gentleman as it had been to the public ; but, though not
satisfactory to the hon. member, it had been so to the Mini-
ster of Sardinia, and he had that afternoon received a de-
spatch from Count Cavour, stating that he was satisfied with
the explanation, and that he would act in the spirit of that
despatch, and in the spirit of the protocol of the 14th of
April, last year, iu Paris. He was not able to give the hon.
gentleman the information he required with reference to the
liberation of the Sardinian prisoners ; but he was surd that
the harmony of action which had beau established betty en
the Government of this country and Sardinia must lead to
such consequences as they all must desire. (Hear.)
METROPOLITAN WORKHOUSES.
- -

Viscount RAYNHAM moved for a select committee to in-
quire into the condition and administration of the Metro.
politan Workhouses, and into the general arrangements made
and carried out by the parochial authorities of the metropolis
for giving relief to the poor.
Mr. S. ESTCOURT said if the committee moved for were
granted, it would rather retard than forward. the object the
noble lord bad in view. But be bad been unable to gather
from what the noble lord bad stated. what were the grounds
for his motion. He could not expect the motion to be ac-
ceded to without giving instances to satisfy the house that
such a committee was rendered necessary by same miscon-
duct in the condition and administration of the workhouses
in the metropolis. Every assistance would be afforded to
the noble lord by the Poor-law Board. Ho hoped the noble
lord would, not press his motion, as he had not laid sufficient
grounds for his motion.
The motion was negatived without a division.
On the motion of Mr. WALPOLE, leave was given for the
Sworn Deputy Corn Meters, the Sworn Deputy Fruit Meters
and the Fellowship Porters of the City of London, to be
heard by counsel before the Select Committee on the London
Corporation Regulation Bill, with reference to the 66th
clause r. f the said bill.
Mr. WALPOLE brought in a bill to amnid the act of the
fifth and sixth years of Queen Victoria, for enabling eccle-
siastical corporations, aggregate and solo, to grant leases for
long terms of years.
Sir W. HEATHCOTE obtained leave to bring in a bill to
enlarge the powers of the Universities of Oxford and Cam-
bridge, and of the colleges thereof, for the sale, exchange,
and leasing of lands.
PROPERTY QUALIFICATION BILL.
Mr. L. KING moved that it be read a second time.
Mr. MILES thought that at that late hour they should
postpone it, and he would counsel the hon. gentleman to
postpone it.
It was accordingly postponed to Thursday.
The Galwsy Disfranchisement Bill was postponed.
The Exchequer Bonds, 2,000,000/., went into committee.
The other orders were then disposed of, and the house ad-
journed at a quarter past 12 o'clock.

5, 1 8 5 $.

PAPLI AMEN T A RY DIVISION.

HOUSE OF CO VI MONS—NIAv 4.
DANUBIAN PRINCIPALITIES.
Motion made, and Question put, "That an humble ad-
dress be presented to her Majesty, to submit to her Ma.
jesty that this house, bearing iu mind the obligations.
imposed by the Treaty of Paris, so far as they affect the
Danubian Principalities, has observed with satisfaction
the general tenor an .l spirit of the Declaration recorded
by her Majesty's Chief Plenipotentiary at the Confer-
ences of 1856, concerning the future organisation of .hose
territories : &lid humbly convey to her Majesty the
earnest hope of this house, that, -in the further prosecu-
tion of this important subject, juit weight may be given
to those wishes of the people of Wallachia and Moldavia
which, through their representatives elected in con-
formity with the said treaty, they have recently ex-
pressed." The house divided—Ayes, 111; Noes, 292.
AYES-114.
Baring, Sir F. Ewing, Crum North, F.
Barnard, Thomas Fagan, W. O'Brien, P.
Bass, M. Fortescue, Hon. F. O'Donoghoe, The
Baxter, W. Fox. W. J. Ogilvy, Sir J.
Beaumont, W. Gavin, Major Taget, Lord C.
Biggs, John Gibson, Milner Paxton, Sir J
Black, Adam Glyn, G. Perry, Sir E.
Bland, L. IL Goderich, Viscount Pilkington, J.
Bowyer. G. Graham, Sir J. Pinney, Col.
Brams ton, T. W Greene, John Potter, Sir J.
Briscoe, John Greer, Samuel Rayntiam, Viscount
Browne, Lord John Grentell, Charles W. Roebuck, J. A.
Bruce, li. A. Griffith, C. Itou;All, W.
Butt, I. Hadfield, George Russell, Lord J.
Buxton, C. Hamilton, Capt. Russell, H.
Byng, G. 11. C. Hardcastie, Joseph Satsbury, Enoch
Caird, J. Harlington, Marquis Schneider, Henry
Calcott, M. Heathcoate, Sir W. Scholefield, W.
Cecil, Lord .R. Hodgson, K. Sheridan, 11. B.
Collier, It. P. Holland, E. Smith, J. A.
Coliins; T. Hope, Alexander Smith, J. B.
Conyngham, Lord F. Jermyn, Rt. lin. Ealr Somerville, Sir W.
Cox, W. Johnstone, Sir J. Stapleton, John
Craufurd, E. H. J. Kenn
11W, J. Sykes, Colonel
Crawford, Si. W. King, L. Thompson, General
Crook, J. Kinglake, J. Tite, W.
Dalgiish, R. Ruatchbull-Huguessen Turner, J. A.
Davey, It. Levinge, Sir it. Waldron, Laurence
Denison, W. 11. Lindsay, W. White, lames
Dent, John I ocke, Joh Williams, W.
Devereux, J. Lockhart, A. E. Willyams, E.
Dill wyn, L. L. Macarthy, Alex, Wingfield, It.
Divett, E. MacEvoy, E. Wise, J.
Duff, M. Mackinnon, W. Wood, W.
Dunlop, A. Maguire, J. F. Woods, Henry
Dunne. M. Mills, T. Wyld, James
Ebrington, Viscount Morris, D. TELLERS.
Elton, Sir A. H. Napier, Sir C. Gladstone, W.
Emile, John Nicoll, D. Deasy, It.
NOES-292.

Agnew, Sir A. Foley, J. H. Nisbet R. P.
Akroyd, E. Foley, H. W. Noel, G.
A lcock, T. Fo!jambe, Francis Norreys, Sir D.
Alexander, J. Fords, Colonel North, Col. J.
Anneeley. Hon. Hugh Forester, Col. Packe, C.
Ayrtoa, A. Freestun, Colonel Paget, C.
Bagwell, John Gard, R. 4 Pakington, Sir J.
Bailey, C. Carnett;William Palk, L.
Baillie, H. Gaskell, J. Palmer, R.
Baines Rt. Hon. M. Greaves, E. Palmerston, Viscount
B MI, i Greenall, Gilbert Paull, Henry
Baring, A. Greenwood, John Pease, Henry
Baring, 11. Gregory, W. Pechell, Sir G.
Baring, T. G. Grenfell, C. P. Peel, Sir it.
Bernard, T. Gray, Captain Peel, Gen.
Bathurst. A.:A. Grey, R. Pennant, Co'. E.
Beach, W. Grogen. Edward Pevensey, Viscount
Bective, Earl Gurdon, Brampton Philips, R.
Beecroft, G. Hall, Sir Benjamin Philipps, J.
Bennet, Capt. P. Hamilton, Lord Claud Powell, Francis
Bentinck, G. Hamilton, G. A. Power, N.
Berkeley, F. Hanbury, Robert Pritchard, J.
Boldero, Col. 11. G. Hankey, T. Proby, G.
Botfield, B. Ilarcourt, G. G. Pugh, D.
Bouvet ie, Hon. P. Hardy, G. Puller, Christopher
Bovill, W. Harris, J. D. Ramsden, Sir J.
Boyd, J. Hatchell,...lohu- - : _ _liarriittson, Sir H.
Brady, J. Hay, Lord Jolut Rebow, J.
Bramley-Moore, J. Hayes, Sir E. Repton, G.
Bridges. Sir B. Hay ter, W. Ricardo, 0.
Brocklehurst, J. Heard, J. Richardson, J.
Brows. W. Heueage, Geo. F. Ridley, George
Bruce, Major Henley, J. Robertson, P.
Bruen, H. Hornby, W. Rolt, J.
Buchanan, Walter Borstal!, T. Rushout, Capt. G.
Buller, Sir J. Hotham, Lord Russell, A.
Buller, J. W. Howard, C. Rust, James
Banbury, W. B. Hudson, G. Sandal, Viscount
Burghley, Lord Hume, W. Sclater, George
Burke, Sir T. Hunt, G. W. Scott, Major
Buxto 1, Sir E. N. Hutt, W. Seymer, IL
Cairns, 11. Ingham, R. Shelley, Sir J.
Campbell, R. Inglis, John Sibthorp, Major
Darden, Sir R. W. Jervoiae, Sir J. Smith, V.
Cartwright, H. Johnstone, H. B. Smyth, Col.
Cavendish, W. Jolliffe, EL Smallett, A.
Ca) ley, E. S. Kelly, Sir F. Somerset, Colonel
Child, Smith Kendall, N-. Spooner, it.
Christy, Samuel Ker, Richard Stanhope, J.
Churchill, Lord A. Kinglake, A. Stanley, Lord
Clack, J. Kingscote, Capt. R. Steel, John
Clay, James Kinnaird, A. Steuart, A.
Clifford, C. C. Knatchbull, W. Stuart, Lord J.
Clifford, Lt.-Col. H. M. Knight, F. Stuart, Colonel
Clive, George Knightley, R. Start, li.
Clive, R. Laboachere,Rt.llon.H Sullivan, Michael
Close, M. Langston, J. 11. Talbot, C.
Cobbett, J. M. Langton, W. G. Tancred, IL
Codrington, Sir C. W. Langton, H. G. Taylor, S.
Cole, 11. A. Lasiett, W. Tempest, Lord A. V.
Colvile, C. It. Lennox, Lord A. F. Thornhill, W.
Coningham, W. Lennox, Lord H. G. Tollemache J.
Conolly, T. Lisburne, Earl Tottenham, C.
Coate, Sir C. H. Locke. J. Trefusls, C.
Corry, H. 11'. L. Lopes, Sir M. Trollope, Sir J.
Cowan, C. Lovaln e, Lord Vaue, Lord H.
Cross, R. A. Lowe, H. Vansittart, G.
Cubltt. W. Lowther, Col. 11. C. Vansittart, W.
Dalkeith, Earl Lowther, Capt. Verney, Sir H.
Davison, R. Luce, T. Villiers, C.
Deedes, William Lyall, George Vivian, H. H.
De Vere, S. E. Lygon, Hon. F. Walcott, Admiral.
Disraeli, B. Lytton, Sir E. Walpole. S.
Dobbs, W. C. Macartney, George Walsh, Sir J.
Duff, L. Macaulay, Kenneth Warre, John
Duke, Sir J. Mackie, J. Warren, S.
Dunbar, Sir W. Mainwaring, T. Wegnelin, T.
Duncan, Viscount M alias, Richard Wel by, W.
Dunda:, F. Mangles, R. D. Western, S.
Du Pre, C. Manners, Lord J. Westhead, Joshua
Dutton, Hon. R. IL March, Earl of Whatman, J.
Edwards, *enry Marjoribanks, D. Whitbread, S.
Egerton, Sir P. Marsh, M. Whiteside, J.
Elliott, J. E. Marshall, William Wickham, H.
Elphinstone, Sir J. Martin, C. Williams, B.
Esmonde, J. Massey, W. • Williams, S.r W.
Es tcourt, T. Maxwell, J. Wilson, J.
Evans, T. W. Mellor, John Winnington, Sir T.
Ewart, W. Allies, W. Wortley, Major
Evart, J. Miller, Taverner Wyndham, General
Farquhar, Sir M. Miller, Stearns Wynn, Col.
Fellowes, E. Moncreiff, J. Wynne, J. A.
Fenwick, H. Molise% W. Wyvill, M.
Fergus, John Montgomery, Sir G. Young, A.
Ferguson, Colonel Mowbray, J. R.
Ferguson, Sir Hubert Naas. Lord
Fitzgerald, W. It. S. Neeld, John
Fitzgerald, J. Newark, Viscount Jolliffe, Sir W.
Fitzroy, Henry Newport, Viscount Taylor, Colonel

TELLEati.