The Sun.
London, England, 1867-02-06 00:00:00

CRETE.

Mr. GREGORY gave notice of his intention to
move for certain papers relative to the insurrection
in Crete.

Mr. SLELI gave notice of his intention of moving

certain resolutions with respect to powers of the
Admiralty and Dockyard management,

CHURCH RATES.
Mr. HARDCASTLE gave notice of his intention on
an early day to move for leave to introduce a bill

for the abolition of Church Rates.

THE ADDRESS.
The SPEAKER having read her Majesty's Speech,
Mr. T. DE GREY rose to move the Address on the

house in answer to the Royal Speech ; he said he

felt it quite necessary for him to ask the indul-
gence of the house, while he addressed the house,
especially as at the close of last session a struggle
took place which resulted in a change of Govern-
ment. The different parties had not got settled
down, and if in the observations he should address

to the house he should say anything distasteful to

- - -
any section of those great parties he hoped they
would attribute it to his inexperience. The house

he felt certain was most anxious to adopt good
measures, and therefore he thought it would be

judged of but little importance from which side of
the house those measures emanated. There was one

paragraph in the Speech which, he had no
doubt, would give great satisfaction viz.,
that her Majesty was on the most friendly
terms with the Continental Powers. This

circumstance showed that peace would still prevail
in England. There were other matters in her Ma-

jesty's Speech which would give great satisfaction,

. _
and none so more than that setting forth measures

which would result in the improved comfort of the

soldier. With respect to the war which happily
had terminated in Germany, it was hoped that as
soon as the disturbances that that struggle
hal produced had passed away a better and more
prosperous state of things would prevail. With

respect to the state of matters between this country
and the United States, he also felt that the in-
formation that all chance of becoming involved
in a quarrel with that great country had

passed away, and he doubted not that the

result of the deliberations would be that a recur-
rence of matters like those which had transpired

would not again arise, and that a better and more
friendly feeling would exist between the two
countries. The subject of Canada was also re-
ferred to in the Royal Speech, and after the

noble manner the country had come forward to

support her Majesty's rule, he thought it would
but be just that the Parliament of this country
should take steps to consolidate and satisfy the
scheme of Confederation which had been passed
by the several legislatures in that country. It was
with deep regret that he read the account of the
outbreak of famine in India, but the steps the Go-
vernment had taken during the autumn, he trusted,
would mitigate the effects of the calamity ; and
since the outbreak an abundant harvest had been
granted to that country, he trusted that, under
Divine Providence, the effects of the famine would
be fully mitigated. It is to be regretted that
Fenians still disturbed the peace and quiet of the
sister country, but the steps of the Government, he
thought, would end in the restoration of general
tranquillity. The cattle plague, it was to be re-
gretted, was still lingering about, but he trusted that
the most active steps would be taken to
stop the progress of such a great calamity. He
now came to the vexed question of reform. (Hear,
hear.) If the country wanted Reform, it did not
require resolutions—(hear, hear)—but of this he
was quite certain, that without all parties were
ready to unite, practically speaking, no measure of
Reform was likely to be carried in that house. If the
question was to be approached in a friendly spirit,
he thought it would be scarcely prudent for her
Majesty's present Government to undertake the
task of revising the Constitution in the face of such
an opposition as it was likely to encounter. ("Hear,
hear," and laughter.) The hon. gentleman having
touched upon the other matters referred to in the
Royal Speech, thanked the house for their atten-
tion, and concluded by reading the Address, which,
as usual, was a mere echo of the Speech.
Mr. GRAVES said that in undertaking the hon-
our of seconding the Address, no one felt
more than he the inadequacy of his abi-
lity to perform the task. The Speech
which they had had the pleasure of hearing that
day was, in his opinion, a good one—one which he
fully anticipated would be satisfactory to the house,
and that it would be, acceptable to the country.
He felt that it was of the highest im-

portance that neutrality should be the policy
of England in all differences abroad, and he
thought that if those laws were found to be lax or
overweighted, and this country was called upon to
make compensation, it would lead to the making of
those laws more intelligible for the future guidance
of all maritime Powers. The great question,
however, which was agitating all parties was
the question of Reform. (Hear, hear.) The necessity
of an extension of the franchise was admitted by all
parties, but the real question with all was, how was
a just and wise solution of the difficulty to be ar-
rived at. Whether the measure which her Majes-
ty's Government intended to bring forward would
include a redistribution of seats—(hear hear)—
or whether it would boldly grapple with that
great mass of corruption which had been recently
brought to light, and which he regarded as a blot
in the honour of the country, he did not know.
But this much he felt certain, that the measure of
the Government would be conceived and framed in
no narrow spirit, but that a broad and good measure
would be submitted in an earnest and honest desire
that it might he found acceptable to the house and
the country. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentlemen
then proceeded to comment on the other paragraphs
in her Majesty's Speech—one of the mast important
of which was the announcement of the relaxation of
the navigation laws, for which they were indebted to
the enlightened wisdom of the Emperor of the French,
and it was in the highest degree satisfactory that
her Majesty had announced to his Majesty her
desire for their extinction on equitable terms. His
Majesty, it was highly satisfactory to learn, had
shown that he was anxious that an arrangement
should take place, and to show that he was earnest
in the matter he had already admitted British ships
to the advantages of the proposed new law. The
panic which had existed last year had exercised a
very depressing influence upon manufactures and
commerce ; but he trusted that no such ele-
ment would again disturb or destroy the prospects
of the country. He rejoiced that it was intended
to introduce a measure for the improvement of the
position of landlord and tenant in Ireland, because
he knew from his own experience that that confi-
dence and security which it was most essential
should prevail did not exist. Until the railways
of Ireland were put upon a better footing the
resources of that country would never become known.
To do this State control might be required, but he
thought that should such be called for the result
would prove highly advantageous. He thought if a
precedent were required that he could point to
India, but he thought that before long they would
be able to point to one nearer home, because the
post-office would soon have to take over the whole
of the telegraph system.
The SPEAKER having read the Address,
Mr. GL ADS TONE, amid much cheering from:the opposi-
tion benches, rose and said—l rise, Mr. Speaker, for the pur-
pose of supporting the Address which has been moved and
seconded from the opposite benches. I heartily approve
of the well-established rule which on all occasions dis-,
courages the needless importation of subjects of difference
into the debate upon the Address to the Crown in reply to
the Royal Speech, and I confess that on this occasion, in-
dependently of much other matter which the Address con-
tains, and which we should wish to see brought under dis-
cussion with the most favourable auspices, there are three
announcements I think quite sufficient to make any candid
or well-judging man reluctant to see dissension introduced
into this debate —I mean the announcement of the measure
for the union of the North American provinces ; secondly,
the announcement of the measure on that most important
subject, namely, the state of the relations between landlord
and tenant in Ireland—(hear)—and I must add in a form
to which Ido not think the most fastidious amongst us
will find anything to object to—(hear)—and thirdly, the
announcement not less, but even still more, gratifying,
namely, that in the judgment of her Majesty's Government
the time has arrived when the existence of exceptional,
and in one sense arbitrary, power in Ireland may reach its
termination. (Cheers.) Sir, lam not only indisposed to
make any amendment on the present occasion, but if there
be any gentleman who entertains a different opinion, and
to whom I could offer a recommendation, I would earnestly
beseech him to forbear from executing such an intention.
(Hear.) Passing, however, from the numerous and im-
portant subjects introduced iflto her Majesty's Speech, I

~pe~~~,

am anxious to offer some remarks upon a few of the
paragraphs which that Speech contains. And first, I

will touch for a moment on that momentous subject
—the correspondence that has taken place between
the government of the United Kingdom and the government

of the United States of America in reference to questions
pending between the two countries, and which questions
have arisen out of the late civil war. I wish to convey to the
noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairsonthe

part of those with whom I have had the opportunity of com-
municating, that what he has done or proposes to do on
that subject, will be judged by us, not in the narrow spirit

of endeavouring to exact from him a precise conformity to
the steps we ourselves may have taken, but so long as his
measures and policy are consistent with the honour con-
ducive to the interests of the country, everything which
proceeds from the noble lord and his colleagues shall receive
from us a most favourable consideration. (Hear.) I will
now go on to the paragraph relating to the insurrection
which has distracted, and I know not how much or to what

extent it still distracts, the important island of Candia. I
miss in the Royal Speech an intimation which it is so com-
mon to convey upon certain subjects, especially foreign
subjects that have reached some degree of maturity,viz., that
it is the intention of her Majesty's government to present

papers to the house. I observe that an hon. friend of mine
has already given notice of his desire to obtain information
in that shape, and I venture to express the hope that her
Majesty's Government will be prepared to lay before us such
information on this subject as they possess, for this question

is one which, although of foreign concern, nevertheless can-
not be regarded as very remote from our interests, but still
more, it cannot bo regarded as a question in which we are
altogether without rights. (Hear.) Wa do not know from

any authentic sources the causes of this insurrection. We

certainly know the deplorable calamities that have attended
it and the desperate resolution, against enormous odds,
with which the battle was fought. What lam desirous

of knowing, and what I hope the papers will prove is,
that the Government of the Sultan is not responsible for
the insurrection—(hear, hear)—but that he had before the
ou• break given faithful and full execution to that important
instrument, the hatti-scheriff, which he had issued at the
close of the Crimean war, to secure to the Christian sub-
jects of the Sultan that civil equality to which they are
justly entitled, which had been for too long a time withheld.
(Hear, hear.) This is a question, not only of the utmost
gravity in itself, it is one rather in the general interests of
humanity than of especial British interest, viewing it in a

narrow sense, but it is likewise a qusstion of tho utmost
importance in reference to the future. (Hear.) I congra-
tulate her Majesty's Government warmly upon the fact
that the time has a rived when they are able to promise or
to form a judgment on the circumstances of the moment
that they will not, under those circumstances, apply for the
extension of the exceptional powers of the Government in
Ireland. (Cheers from the Irish members.) And I join witli
them in rejoicing that the spirit displayed by the community

itself iu aid of that Government has proved to be so potent
an ally in averting the evils which at one time we had been
led to apprehend a phenomenon new in the history of Ire-
land, but one which, I trust, will lead to much reflection as
to its cause, and that that reflection will prove a powerful
encouragement to us to prosecute that policy of liberality
anti justice to Ireland of which in part we now witness the
happy result. (Hews.) Her Majesty's Government refers to a
subject of great interest relative to the condition of the
army and reserve. If I caught correctly the words of the
Address, it is proposed to state to her Majesty, in reply to
the Royal Speech, that we will cheerfully consider any pro-
posal or demand she may make for our assent to a mode-
rate expenditure. I must confess that if I were a captious
critic I should entertain a little doubt whether a cheerful
consideration is exactly that form of consideration which the
representatives of the people should give to a demand for an
increase of expenditure. That the house will carefully and
readily consider the proposal I have no doubt, and I trust
the subject will obtain a fair and liberal consideration.
Most certainly I will express m) confidence that while we
shall expect the Government to show that the expense
proposed is necessary in the one direction, it is, neverthe-
less, one which may be compensated for in another. Her
Majesty's Government, however, will receive, I have no
doubt, the cordial support of this house in their efforts to
enact a well-concerted and effective measure for the ac-

complishment of that important object—the foundation o:
a good army and a system of reserve. (Hear, hear.) Tho
Speech also touches upon a subject as delicate as it is im-
portant in the reference which it makes to an inquiry that
is about to be instituted into the circumstances of the dis-
agreement between the employers of labour and their
workmen, and to the means by which that inquiry is to be
prosecuted. I think there have been exaggerated state-
ments on this subject, which to a certain extent may have
acted on the public mind. Such statements tend to pro-
pagate the idea that the differences between employers and
workmen aro now either of a more aggravated character
than in former times, or that the effect of those differences
is to menace the commercial and trailing interests of the
country. If there be those who really entertain that ap-
prehension, let them pay attention to a single sentence in
the speech of the seconder of the Address, which acquainted
us that the joint increase of our exports and imports for the
nine mouths of the last year, as compared with the cor-
responding nine months of the preceding year, amounted
to no less than X 65,000,000. hear_) But that is no
reason why the attention of Parliament should not be
given to a subject of the utmost importance and to a mat-
ter undoubtedly presenting great and serious evils to be
remedied. But what I hope for is that the interposition
of the Government will be of an amicable character, and
in particular, that when my right hon. friend the Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department frames his
bill for obtaining powers to make the inquiry effec-
tive, he will bear in mind, as I am sure he will, the
full and absolute right of all individuals, whether they
be employers or workmen, to bring to market the com-
modity they have to dispose of, whether it be labour,
its produce or capital, on the best terms in their power, so
long, and only so long, as they exercise their own rights
without prejudice to the rights of others. (Heal.) There
is but one other subject to which I wish to advert for a few
moments. It is one, as has been rightly observed by the
hon. member for Liverpool, which attaches to itself at this
moment an all-absorbing interest—l mean the question of
the representation of the people. (Hear.) I will, however,
first offer comments on that which many of us anxiously
expected to see alluded to, and, which, probably for some
good and sufficient cause, dues not appear in her Majesty's
Speech. I presume the cause to be probably this, that the
recent inquiries into corrupt practices in certain boroughs
are not at present so absolutely completed as to enable the
Government to advise the Crown to refer to this subject in
the Royal Speech. I am sure, however, that the subject
deserves our best consideration, as being one of the utmost
importance. The question of Reform is certainly a diffi-
cult one, but I am quite sure that there ought not to be any
difficulty in dealing with some of its branches, such as the
cases of proved corruption. (Hear.) That evil, which has
gtctbrhori alometrrNyve: lavoe
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aspens:
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scandalousuol
ytf oiotuf
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national
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more
years.
h ao r
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o
long as we were in something like exclusive possession of
a representative system little notice was taken of these
offences in foreign lands; but we have lived in a period in
which almost every country is possessed in more or less
perfect forms of representative institutions, and in which
some countries enjoy them in the highest state of efficiency.
Since that has been the case it appears to me that Europe
has conceived what I may call a sentimental disgust at
finding that evils, of which in that country they are
scarcely conscious, have become so rife and so virulent
amongst us. (Cheers.) I hope it will be understood, and
I assume there is cause for the silence of the Speech upon
this subject, and I close the few remarks I have made
upon it by expressing a hope that when her Majesty's
Government take into consideration any reports—l
will not presume to say what they may be—butany reports
in which it shall appear by judicial authority that the con-
stituencies are tainted, as they have been in some pr3vious
well remembered instances, they will not ask us to inflict
the almost nominal and wholly unsatisfactory punishments
which have bounded their action in former years, but will
give evidence to the world, by something in the nature of
strictness and severity, that we are in earnest in these
matters. (Loud cheers.) Now, as regards the paragraph in
the Speech of her Majesty, it is obviously open to the re-
mark that its language is in some degree enigmatical. But
I do not think it will be fair to make that circumstance a
subject of complaint. On the contrary, I think that her
Majesty's Government are perfectly justified in reserving
that full explanation of their intentions to a future day,
which, if it had been attempted to-day in a form necessarily
imperfect, would probably have tended to prejudice a set-
tlement of the question. Of course, therefore, in assenting
to the paragraph as it stands, I do so upon the double
ground that there is nothing in its language which can give
rise to ajust reflection, and that important as is every matter
in connection with this great subject under present circum-
stances—every matter both as to substance and procedure—
. I for myself, and others if they are so minded, will retain
the most perfect liberty to canvas both the substance and
the procedure of the measures and the steps to be taken by
her Majesty's Government when at the proper time we shall
become acquainted with thorn. (Hear.) I think there are
three points in which our interest in the consideration and
management of this bill will be looked at. There is the ques-
tion by whom a measure of Parliamentary Reform is to be sub-
mitted to Parliament; the question of what is to be the sub-
stance and effect of such a measure ; and lastly,there is the
question of when it is to be brought under our notice.
As regards the first inquiry, by whom such a measure is to
be submitted, I humbly represent to the house that at this
moment, in the interest of the country the speedy settlement
of the question is all important—(hear, hear)—and if there
be any of us who are less sanguine than gentlemen opposite
at the possible proceedings of her Majesty's Government, that
will be no reason for endeavouring to cast impediments in
their course. It is our duty to accept, wherever we can
get it, a measure that will adequately meet the just expec-
' tations of the people ; and if we intend to be willing par-
' ties to the introduction of such a measure by the Govern-
L ment, we ought not, by anything we now say or do, to cast
the smallest difficulty in the way of a settlement of the
question. (Cheers.) Sir, as respects the substance of the
measure, that is a matter which I not think the present a
roper moment to discuss ; but as respects the time of the