The Sun.
London, England, 1867-03-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARMA I ENT

HOUSE OF COMMONS-LAST EVENING.

The SPEAKER took the • chair at twelve o'clock.
CHURCH RATE ABOLITION BILL.

Mr. HARDCASTLE moved the second reading of this
bill, the object of which was to enable the £50,000 or
£60,000, the sum estimated as sufficient to keep the dif-
ferent churches of the Established Church of the country,
to be raised by voluntary contribution. Various
schemes of compromise had failed, and he thought
the only way of surmounting the difficulty which had led
to hoartburning and ill-feeling was to adopt the principle
embodied in the bill.

Mr. LI. HOPE objected to the measure, and moved that
the bill be read a second time that day six months. He
contended that arguments of " ticketing" was a most ab-
surd way of dealing with the question of church rates.
Everybody was " ticketed;" the members of that house
were ticketed M.P., some D.C.L.; and the use of such a
clap-trap argument was only worthy of a posting placard
at a contested election.

Mr. GORSE seconded the amendment. If the bill was
passed the deserving poor would be the parties who would
suffer by the falling off of the contributions to the offertory.
Sir a GREY said the matter had been so frequently
discussed that it was quite unnecessary for him to detain
the house for any length of time. He could not help
remarking the empty state of the Treasury bench at a
time when a question so important was under discus-
sion, because he thought that the Government ought to
express its opinion on the bill of his hon. friend. He
thought it contained the germ for the future settlement of
this much contested question.
Sir W. HEATIICOTE supported the amendment moved
by the hon. member for Stoke (Mr. Hope).
Mr. READ was of opinion that the best way of stating
this question would be to read all the bills proposed to be
introduced a second time and then to refer them to a
select committee. He thought that was the only course
that was at all likely to bring about an equitable settle-
ment of the question.
Mr. SCOURFIELD said there was much to be said in
favour-of the bill of the hon. gentleman opposite, but he
could not give it his support, because he knew the clergy
were much opposed to having to go round annually and
make collections for the maintaining the church in repair.
The voluntary principle was more or less sensational.
Mr. REMINGTON MILLS said a great deal, had been
said about the chiircfies being in disrepair, but he thought
it would bo well if dome information was given as to
where a church was situated in which the repairs, were not
effected by voluntary contribution. If the landlords
would let their land free of Church Rates that course
would at once settle the question.

Lord JOHN MANNERS said the reason the members
of the Government were absent at the commencement of
the sitting was that a Cabinet Council was being held at
twelve o'clock. It had been said that that side of the
house had done their utmost to resist the abolition of
church rates, but that he denied. His side of the house
had always expressed a desire to agree to a compromise,
but all the proposals that had been made in that direction
for the last 30 years had been rejected by those hon. mem-,
bers who represented the dissenting interest on the other
side. He heartily and entirely dissented from the prin-
ciple of the bill under discussion, and, therefore, he
should give his vote against the second reading.
Mr. HUBBARD supported the amendment. He was
against unconditional abolition, but in favour of a com-
promise.
Mr. NEATE said they were about to alter the constitu-
tion of the holm, and therefore that matter might well be
left to the decision of the country. He could not give his
vote in favour of the second reading of the bill, as he was
anxious that the bill of the hon. member for Stoke (Mr.
Hope) which proposed a compromise should be taken into
consideration.

Mr. F. CHAMBERS was of opinion that no compromise
in the matter would work. There must either be total
abolition or no change in the present system.
Mr. BASS was in favour of the abolition of the com-
pulsory payment of church rates, because he knew in-
stances in parishes where it had been adopted the best re-
sults had followed. In a parish which paid the highest
rates in the district a sum of £260, or thereabouts, was
annually raised from amongst those residents willing to
pay, those objecting to do so being passed over. In this
parish the clergy were all men of the highest intelligence,
the churches wore in the best possible repair, and persons
of all denominations lived peaceably together.
Mr. NE WDEGATE said he was willing to go the length
of consenting to the abolition of compulsory payment of
church rates.
Mr. GOSCHEN said the noble lord the First Commis-
sioner of Works having stated that he was in favour of a
compromise on this matter, he would like to know whe-
ther the Government were of the same opinion ; also,
• • _

whether they would assent to the compromise by support-
ing the second reading of the bill, and adopt the compro-
mise proposed by the hon. member for Hastings?
Mr. WALPOLE replied by stating that when they were
in office eight years ago they brought forward a bill to
effect a compromise, and they still adhered to the principle
of that bill. , Tle thought tho Church Rates Regula-
tion Bill a fair compromise ; but when they were asked to
consent to the total abolition of church rates they should
offer to that proposition their determined opposition. They
were ready to consider any bill which would throw the
rate upon the landlord instead of the occupier, and to ex-
empt those who did not belong to the church from contri-
buting to its support.
Mr. GLADSTONE said the point really remaining was
whethek compulsory powers should remain to be put in
force, not against those who were willing to pay but
against those who were unwilling ; and as a disinclination
had been expressed by the supporters of the bill to consider
such a proposition in committee, he should give his vote
in favour of the second reading of the bill.
The house then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it

Majority 76
The bill was accordingly read a second time.
CHURCH-RATES COMMUTATION BILL.
Mr. NEWDEGATE moved the second reading of this
bill, the object of which was to enable the parishioners to
impose a rate of 2d. in the pound on the property in the
parish for the maintenance of repairs of the church.
Mr. Sergeant GAZELEE moved that the bill be read a
second time that day six months.
Tho house divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it

Majority 132
The bill was consequently lost.
CHURCH RATE REGULATION BILL.
Mr. HUBBARD postponed the motion for the second
reading of this bill until next Wednesday.
RELIGIOUS BUILDINGS (SITES) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
SALE AND PURCHASE OF SHARES BILL.
The. house then went into committee on this bill.
Progress was reported at a quarter to six, and shortly
after which the house adjourned.