The Sun.
London, England, 1804-06-09 00:00:00

IRISH LINEN TRADE.

Mr. FosTPR moved the Order of the Thy f t
the House going into a Committee to consider ti,t
Petitions ag4i.nit the Duties on the Irish Linen►

The Sr. EAllta having left the Chair,

fPRICESIXPENCE.

Mr. FOSTEI? stated, that his ohjea ,4s to relieve
the Trade of Ireland fromthe dtities of 4. per cent.
and four per cent, on tbi txportation of Linen iron)
Ireland: Linen was the staple commodity of Ire.

land, and die grotinds of the present proccediog.
was this : this important branch of comtnelce was, a 7;

he would spew, decreasing; in 1796, the exportp
amounted to forty.six millions; in iboi, they
minished to thirty-nine millions; and in [to.}, ta
thirty-six Millions, so that in the whole, diiring the
above periods they diminished ten millions. it
was proper; therefore, that the trade should be en::
Couraged by liatinty, instead of depressed by duty;
when it was in this state of decay. A i>ounty was
indeed given, which this duty had in a great
sure counteracted; bat he did not wish that the
Irish Linen trade should be encouraged at the ex:

pence of the British, and he was sure that every
TriShman:would here agree with him. 'Tie British

Linen export had alsodecreased from eighteen mil_

lions to ten millions.

The IVlction, therefore, tnat

,
. • „.
he would make, would he, for leave to bring in a
it Bit! ts; ex-...tpt fr•.;rii the i'aF Aof r...l:itty on Ex..
ports all the Linens of Great train and Ireland.
Sr 80BERP PEEL did nos oppose the toe:..
: . .
sure) but hoped that, in case it should have a bad
etTett on the cotton expbrtation, provision would b=
made for the latter at sortie Ititure time

Sir JOHN NEWPJIZT supported the Measure,
and observed that trie Cotton Manufacture could
not be injured by it.
After a few more observations from Mr. LF
Sir ROli.E11;1' rest, Mr: Posiii, 1%.4r. OitrviNßY,

and Mr; DAWstirt, the Report 01, tie. Committee
was received, and a Bill Ordered to be brought in

as requeited.
PULLER asked, whether the CHANCELLOR
of the ExcHEQo ER would him in moving
for Copies of the Treaty•between De;ialin&, thei
Negro General, in St. Domingo, and Me. Coib-tt,
the.l3-litish Agent in Jamaica, relative to the Lb:,
pOrtation of Negros into that ISland Estoril this it
would appear, that this General pertnitteti the
portation of Negroes from Africa, notwithstaruling
all that, had been said on the suhjel.
The CIIANCELLdi of the E:CE4E;',i_IIER could
not hive a precise answer, but believed , that
there was some arrangement of th'at sort, and that-
theiefore the Motion Was unnecessary.
Mr.FoLL,. . declared that this was all he wanted.

ADDITIONAL FOkCE.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
ed 'the Order of the Day for the second read.:
ing of the Additional Force Bill. The question,
being put,
Mr. CALCR APT rose, and obierted that he did
not intend to have offered his sentiments to the
House on this measure so. early, latit _aa.,he,saw net
other Gentleman who wished to begin the discussioni
he would trouble the House with a few words 4
though nut so well prepared on the subjea as he
cold:1 have .wished to be.; Since the Administration
had gained so much additional strength as the ac.
cession of the Right Hon. Gentleman who now held
the office of Chtticellor of the Exchequer ; since his
abilities were employed in-the Government, for he
could not call it a new Administration, nor was it
by any means such an Administration as the Coml..
try had been taught to expel ; after all that he
heard, he did not look to him for a measure of
• much greater vigour and excellence, mote likely to
meet .the exigencies of the times, and more adapted,
to the circumstance of the Country, than the one
now under consideration ; for the Plan now pro-
posed, was, in fad, neither more nor less than part-
ing with a certainty, in order to gain a chance all ,
that it could be expeded to do, was to raise men
until the deficiencies in the Militia and Army of Re-
serve were supplied, and the whole PorCe to be raised
would thus only amount to about sixteen thousand.
men (observing a whisper on the Treasury,Bench) ;.
he was not sure as to the amount of the Force ;:‘
but at any rate one thing was clear, that by giving.
up the ballot, the means of raising the force was.
rendered extremely precarious. In his opinion, the.
whole Plan had a very strong resemblance to
the measure which was put in execution yo
rm. Men were then raised by the Parish Officers
tot the Navy and Army. The success of that sys-
tem was well known, arid afforded no very sanguine
hopes of what could be dote by the present plan.
Was it reasonable to expea that tuch means could
succeed in procuring men where the ballot had fail-
ed ? The mode in which it was intended to apply
this Force was, by throwing it into second batta-
lions, from which it was expeaed that the men
would enlist into the first. , The Right Hon, Gen...
tleman here relied a great deal upon the family feel.
ing that would be produced by this arrangement.
But when one battalion might be', in the East. or
West Indies, and the other at home, where would
be. the effect of this family feeling,: which had been ,
so eloquently. described ? An Hon. Genleinan, the
other day, had also made an dhledion as far as re-
speded the Officers, which was extremely just, and •
which, in the farther progress of the-Bill, ought to
be attended to. It might- .happen, that Officers in •-
the.F.ast Indies,.Fvho were engaged in adtoal service,
might be superseded by others who remained at
kerne, and were employed in nothing else than dril-
ling their men. This was a thing so monstrous,
that it never could be admitted. It was then ex_
peded, that men could be raised for a smaller
bounty than they received for the Army of Re-
serve or the Militia, at present. This expo Cation
would in all probability be disappoinie,l. Bur
whatever regulation as to bounty was med.:, it was
absolutely impossible to prevent abuses being prac-
tised by the Parish•Officera, who would certainly,
in order to procure men, and save themselves from
the penalty, contrive, by underhand means/ to give
larger Vunry than that fixed by Law,

sure tvould, in all probability, turn out a rrtial
lii ode rating men, and very tew, after all, would
procured. An Hon. Gentleman had said, on a
former occasion, that this was nearly the same plan
as that for raising men by quotas, which was once
put in praaice. He understood that the tenth part
of the men proposed was not raised by that plan
and one might judge from this tat`}, of the success
which this plan was likely to meet with. The men
that were raised by those means were, besides, the.
scum of the population, anti perhaps the cause of
the Mutiny in the Fleet. He would wish to enter
more at length into the subjea, bui he would leave
if, for the present, to others who were more able to
trace th: tnea;ure through all the consequences that
it was likely to produce.—But the design was to
procure a disposable Force, and the question was,
s }lecher this was likely to answer the purpose of
augmenting our disposable Force in any very mate-
rial degree ? The measure of inlisting only for a
term of years, instead of for life, might give facility
to our Recruiting, which it was IA ell worth while
to attend to. Another plan, which in all human
probability would be attended with a great deal of
beilefit, would be to render the West India Service
a particular branch. This would certainly remove
a great impediment to the Recruiting Service. He
would not longer trespass on the time of the House ;
but he would oppose the measure now before the
House, as he thought it perfealy inadequate to its
objek9-. _ . .

Sir ROBERT BUXTON expressed his surprize
That the Right Hun. Q6oleman should have consi-
dered the Pian now pLoposed for raisiflg men as a
partial tax upon landed property, when it went
rather to relieve it from the burden imposed by the
Army of Reserve Act. lle had assimilated this
measure to the Quota System, but there really ap-
peared to him to be scarcely a single feature of re-
semblance between them. .Tloit went to throw our
expence Upon the Parishes; this threw it upon the
Country, which ought always to bear the burden of
raising men. It was of great benefit in another
point of view : it went to put a stop to the ballot,
which was the most unjust and oppressive mode of
raising men that could well be conceived, as it laid
a most 'burthensome charge on the Poor. He him.
self had been a great deal employed in enforcing
ballots, and knew the misery that was often attend_
ant upon it. He could not but rejoice, therefore,
at any prospect of their alleviation. There were
clauses here, no doubt, that would require amend_
menr. To these he would speak in the Committee ;
but in the mean time the principle of the measure
had his warmest approbation.
Mr. YORKE could 'hot give his support to this
measure, and he was sorry that he could nor, for
His Majesty had been a gracious master to him, and
it would be his wish, at all times, to support his
Government, if he could do so in consistency with
his public duty ; but while lie maintained a consist-
eocy with the sentiments which he had ()Itch on
former occasions delivered in that House, he could
not agree in the propriety of the Plan now under
consideration. It had been his fottune to hear many
debates on this tubjeet, or subjeCts similar to it,
but he had not heard the last statement of the Plan
which was given, and therefore it was possible that
his objeCtions might sometimes be misapplied.
There were parts of this measure to which he as-
sented, and parts to which he felt himself bound to
obj,•et. Having turned his attention a good deal
to the subject of the Military System of this Coun-
try, he thought that it required alteration; he
thought that the plan for enlisting for a term of years
was a good one. This was the praCtice in other
countries; but it ought to he considered that this
Country was totally different in its institutions from
those countries ; and it did not follow, because a
system answered well there that it would therefore
answer well here. He thought also that the Colo-
nial Plan for rendering the West India Service a
particular one, was good ; but, however, till such a
plan was established, he did not think that men
could be raised in sufficient numbers voluntarily.—
In all countries there was a sort of conscription; but
in no country were men raised in sufficient numbers
by voluntary service. He was, therefore, friendly
in a great measure, to the principle of the Bill.
But it was intended as a permanent measure, and•
here he could not agree to it. He was friendly to
the principle of the Army of Reserve, and there-
fore his objeCtions did not lie there. His objec-
tions to this measure were these : Ist, He objected
to the amount of men to be raised ; zd, he objeCl-
ed to the manner of raising them ; and 3d, he ob-
jeCted to the time when the measure was brought
forward. He was glad, from what had passed, that
lie could conclude that we were in a tolerable de..
gree of security, as it was admitted that this was
to be considered as a permanent system, rather than
any plan to answer the exigencies of the moment ;
for, reading this Bill, undoubtedly it could be consi-
dered in no other point of view than as a permanent
system ; he was, he said, exceedingly glad that it
was now found that we could discuss any plan of
this sort without apprehension of immediate danger.
Now, as to the numbers, these were greater than
could be obtained without endangering the Re.
cruiting Service ; it was proposed to reduce the
Militia to their ancient establishment, forty thou-
sand for England, and eight for Scotland. The
Supplementary, which were twenty thousand for
England, and four thousand for Scotland, were to
be added to the Army of Reserve. But he thought
that the demands by these Bills were greater titan
what the Country could supply. It was on this
account that he had purposed to suspend the Army
of Reserve ACt, because the Regular Forces were de-
liCient, and especially the Marines, and we ought not
to loso.sight of this very material part of our Force.
He had nu objeCtiOn' to the gradual redaEtion of the

Militia, as the number of men were more than the

Country cotati supply -; but he did objed to throwing
these men ir,Q the Army of Reserve,as that wa3 only
pursuing the Same line of condua, and taking the
same number .of men from the Country. He consi-
dered the obtaining of these. men as impossible, as
theCtimpiernent i:oulti not be filled up within ten
thopsand of the number which had been before de..

maticied In the second place, he objeded to the
mode in Which' these men were to .be raised. It
apfraied 40 him that the relaxation in .the ballot
rer:dr.red the measure inefficient and nugatory. An

Baronet had said, that this was not a tax upon

the landed property, but it seemed to him that the
only efficient part of the whole was that which went
to establish the system of fines (cr;fs of Hear). It
was said that this treasure did not resemble the
Quota Plan : it appeared to him that the one was
twin_brother to the other. The Hon. Gentleman
who had referred to it on the opposite Bench (Mr.
CALCR AFT), had said, that the tenth part of the
men required had not been raised by it. 'The Hon.
Gentleman had only, if he understood him right,
referred to the Army, and certainly so far he was
correct in his statement, for not more than 400
men were taken into the Service, who were all
now at Malta, in the 61st Regiment ; and there was
this peculiar circumstance attending them, that they
had enlisted only for the War, or so long after as
till they returned to Great Britain ; they wet;
however, kept at .Malta, and consequently were
still in the service. It was then said that the bal.
lot was to be stopped. This was precisely one of
the reasons why lie so strongly objected to the mea-
sure. He would not take upon him to say what
was the best possible means of augmenting our Mi.
litary Force in a proper manner, and to a proper
number ; hut he would undertake to say, that it.
was absolutely necessary that there shouid be some
degree of compulsion, such as prevailed in raising.
the Militia. That this was a good system, we had
the best proof, in the circumstance that our defence
had been secured by the Militia, and that we were
now an Independent Nation ; it would be dan-
gerous to set this principle aside, and he ventured to
say, that the Ministry would be disappointed in
their expedations from the present measure. He
exhorted the House nor to put an end to the ballot,
as it was the only mode in which the numbers of
men requisite could be ohtained. In the third place,
he objected to the time in which this measure was
proposed. It was admitted, that the great object
was to augment the Regular Infantry, as the secu-
rity of the Country was in a great measure provided
for, because it 5 or 600,00c0 men were not capable
of defend!,ig it, it was absolutely indefensible.
Now, there was a plan in contemplation for aug.
menting the Regular Infantry : Several battalions
were to be raised in England, and several new re-
giments in Scotland and Ireland. That plan appear-
ed to be given up ; for it was impossible that these
men could he raised, except on the supposition that
the Army of Reserve was laid aside. This was the
reason that the late Ministry had agreed to suspend
the Army of Reserve At for a time, to try what
could be done with the proposed Plan. It it suc-
ceeded, all was well ; if not, then still we had the
Army of Reserve, which was a good species of
Force, though not equal to the Troops of the Line.
He contended, that very little was to be expeded
from the Recruiting by the Parish Officers ; and it
was besides an improper mode, for it was turning
them, though he did not wish to use harsh expres-
sions, into crimps, and that too the worst of crimps.
He was convinced this Plan would not answer, and
he should be sorry it should go on, and therefore
he would wish that it should stand over to the next I
Session.

Mr. STURGES BOURNE replied with great
strength and ability to the arguments that were ad-
duced against the. measure by several Gentlemen,
and principally by the last speaker. He had con-
fessed that some addition was necessary to the Forea
of the Country ; but the Right Hon Gentleman near
him (Mr. ADDINGTON) had said, that no addition
was requisite. The Right Hon. Gentleman had
denied that he said so, but certainly he had under-
stood him to say so, and it Was in the recollection
of the House whether they had not understood
him so also—(Laud cries of " Hear I Hear !") The
same Right lion. Gentleman had also said, that this
measure was nugatory or oppressive, though the
Gentleman who spoke last had not certainly gone so
far, and therefore, if there was any thing objec-
tionable in that assertion, he was not to be
included. in it. He had, however, commenced by
saying, that some instantaneous alteration was ne-
cessary in the military system of this Country. This
was a confession that some measure was still necessary
to complete the Defence of the Country. It was ne.
ccssary to increase the disposable Force of the Coun-
try, and this was the grand objea which the present
measure was intended to accomplish. He al,o
agreed in the propriety of reducing the Militia; and
in this he completely differed from the Right Hon.
Gentleman near him. It was impossible that the
Militia could be maintained at present in the same
state in which it was once intended to he. It was
very desirable that our Force should be as dispos-
abe as possible ;no doubt but it was But how was
this to he attained ? It was desirable that the ser.
vices of the Irish and English Militia should for
this purpose be reciprocal. This, however, was
found to be impossible at present. Well, then,
what was to be done in order to remedy this incon-
venience as much as possible ? Why, was it not the
best plan to throw the men into the Army of Re-
serve, and thus render the- Force in some measure
disposable, which would otherwise be locked up in
the Militia ? The Right Hun. Gentleman (Mr.
Yolucc) then proceeded to the means of raising these
men, and observed, that this was a heavy burden
upon the Landed Property, and it was on this ac,

count that the Right lion. Gentleman near him (Mr'.
ADD NGTON) said that this measure was oppres-
sive. Now it was impossible that any one could be-
lieve that this measure was more oppressive than
the ballot, which went to impose a heavy fine on
all the classes of the ,community, and force upon the
lower uasses. He would put it to the consideration
of the House which was the worst case :—in the

one it fell upon individuals; in the other upon the
parish, or rather upon the State. He would then
ask again), which of the two was most oppressive ?
The Right Hon. Gentleman himself seemed to ad-

mit that this was the milder measure of the two;
but then he observed that his Plan was only tempo-
rary, and that this was permanent. This was, how-
ever, a sorry objeetion; for that was no doubt in.
tended to be permanent as well as this which was

now proposed. On What authority the Honourable
Gentleman or► the other side had asserted that not

•
more than a tenth part of the numbers required had
been produced by the Quota Bill, he knew not.—
There were no documents, as far as he knew, • rela-
tive to the Quota for the Army, but there were
authentic do&ntents relative to the Quota for- the
Navy; and from tbese it appeared, that uut.of 6000,

Soon were raised fit. for service. But there was this
ditference between the two cases : there the bur_
den fell upon the Parish ; here it fell upon the State.
As to the expressions of the Hon. Gentleman oppo.
site (Mr. CALCKAFT), he was surprized how they
could be used to people in this Country. What he
called scum lie knew not, but one thing was certain,
that if the men raised by the Quota were the occa-
sion of the Mutiny, it was not because the lowest
of the people had been engaged, but because the
bounty was so excessive that it reached some of the
middling classes, and hence sprung the mischief.
Due merit was very conspicuous in this Bill, and
that was, that it fixed a limit to the bounty, and ex-
tended the tax equally over all.—lf this Bill should
not turn out so efficacious as might reasonably be
.expeCted, still it threw no obstacle in the way of
general Recruiting. Here a Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite (Mr.Wl reossAm) would certainly agree with
him in the superiority of this measure, as it did not
oppose the general Recruiting, which he wished
to promote, byßecruiting for a limited time, instead
of for life. The good effeft of this latter Plan
might be considerable, but still it was not safe to
rely upon it. It was to be considered, that the
Army of Reserve, with all the advantages of this
Plan, had not been so speedily recruited as might
have been expeCted; and how then could it be
hoped that the Regulars would he recruited.by these
means so quickly as to render any other means .of
supplying our Force unnecessary ? The Right Hun.
Gentleman (Mr. YORKE) thought that it was an
objeCtion to this measure, that it was designed to
be permanent. He, however, thought, that this
was one of its highest recommendations. As to the
difficulty of adding to our Regulars from the Army
of Reserve, experience was the best rest, and this
authorized the most sanguine expeClations, for it
was well known what numbers had enlisted from
the Army of Reserve during the short time it had
been established. Upon the whole, he thought this •
the -best measure that had been ever proposed on this
subject. It opposed no check to the Recruiting for
the Line.; it destroyed the clashing Bounties ; it
removed the burthen from the individuals to the
parishes, or rather to the State, and rendered it the
interest of the parish to find men instead of provid-
ing Substitutes fur those who had wives and chil-
dren, or paying a fine, from a dread that these might
fall upon their hands. For these reasons he gave
his warmest support to the measure.
Mr. BASTARD disapproved of the present Bill
on many grounds : it did not profess to.have I•r its
ohjeCt so much to raise a large body of men for an
immediate exigency, but was brought forward as a
permanent measure, for permanently keeping up a
large standing army. This was a measure so con-
trary to all the old Constitutional Principles of our
Ancestors, that he could by no means approve of it :
he had been educated in the opinion, and he still.
retained it, that large standing Armies, at a time
of Peacei are incompatible with the liberties of-a
Nation, and that such ought not to be the system of
a free Country ; he, therefore, much preferred the
mode of form by which this Country had been hi.
therto defended, and did not expect, even that this
Bill would be able to raise any additional soldiers.
The number called for under the Army of Reserve.
Act was more than the Countries had been found
able hitherto to furnish, notwithstanding every ex_.
ertion had been made. He thought, upon the
whole, that the last AdminiStration had gone on
quietly and unostentatiously in adopting measures
sufficient for the security of 'the Country ; and he
did not know how the majority of the present Ca.
hinet, who were also the majority of the last Cabi-
neck could now condemn their former • measures,
unless, like the French. surgeon, who supposed the
transfusion of young blood would make an old ani-
mal young again, they should now suppose that the
accession of a few men of considerable talents, al-
tered completely the Cabinet.
Mr. BANKS was surprized to hear this measure
opposed as unconstitutional, for it was clear that
the same Legislature who created such a force, could
at pleasure reduce it, or, if it was necessary, abolish
it. No plan could be entirely free from objections.
The Hon. Gentleman had, however, appeared to
take grounds of objections that were not altogether
consistent ; at one time he represented the Bill as
likely to be inefficient; at another time he is alarm_
ed, for fear such a Force may be raised as would be
dangerous to the liberties of the Country. The ob-
jection, however, of the difficulties of raising the
men was more serious. He certainly believed the
power of the Country to furnish recruits, for a
very considerable Force, was much more limited

than was generally supposed. He did not think
the most vigorous system of ballot which could
be adopted, without being revolting to the feel.
ings of every one, would be sufficient to furnish

a very considerable addition to the Army, and
in every free Government it was absolutely. ne-
cessary to consult the feelings and the sense
of the People. The People at large would nor
much objet to any Plan, however vigorous, that
was stated to he necessary for the internal defene,
and security of the Country ; but when it was stated
to be for foreign objeds, it might be felt very dif-
ferently. He thought, however, that this Bill
was pretty free from any weighty objections ; the
increasing of the Army of Reserve would serve the

purose in a manner less evident ; it would imme.

diateiy render a great body of the Regular Army
disposable, and might ultimately render the whole
of them, amounting to 74,000, 'completely so. 'Phis
was the principle upon which ihe late Ministers
begin their Plan, by prowsing the transfer of the
Irish Militia to England, fur the purpose of li-
berating an equal nuinber of the Regular Army.
As to the comparison between this and the Bill in
1795, for compelling the parishes to furnish their
quo a, he could not see much similarity between
them ; then it was the parish which was bound to
furnish the men, at ~tbeir. own expence ; but here
it was the Nation: that, was to pay the expences,
and parishes were only called upon for what every
body oq es to their Country in critical times, their
exertions :.besides, the p radical inefficiency of the
Quota Bill of 1795, might have been from want of
proper inspection ; this in the present case might
he renvdied. After considering the Bill in various
lights, both a 3 to its probable efilo, and the
advantages •immediately resol.ting from getting rid

t
of the ,he conchhica by expresstng —►-5
‘•
probatio, of it. n
Mr. ATKINS IF-a? 'GUT wished the prese- t
to be judged of rather by irs own merits
1,3,
comparing the system cf the present Adrninisyre ry
Lion with. that of their predecessor.... wgi-
doubtful of the expediency or policy of the sot
though he approved. of many parts of ; he "'l'll
like to see additional burdens on Parish Officer
who. most of them served without any remunerali°onst
:
and were intended by the Constitution mereiY.too,,,
gulate points of internal policy ; he thought Ir
►
too much to throw this
.additional burden on the!
which would, in fan, charge their to Rectuitrel'r
Serjeants, or even to crimps ; there W,5 ''ll°tlls,
part of the system which he disapproved of, tarter,
the raising men for a limited service, with an in,
tention and a hope of geting them afterwards to
e,c,
list. loran unlimited service ; he thought this Prllit
tice not perfedly fair, as it was well known. l'ce
soldiers once enlisted, are under such an influeni?
that this second enlisting was not always entire
voluntary.
Mr. ELLISON wished also to abstain froth C,0,r111,3
parison between the present Administration go
late one. As to the Arnie of Reserve Bill, ►a°°?or •
he considered it, as he was sure it was Stine µ,n;
felt, very oppressive to individuals, yet there •ir
a reason fbr it; the Country appeared to
danger, and it must be saved at all everts ;i
1 set
in the present case, no such urgent neces'iLnecessity'up; it is merely a measure brought forward lz0•
ly to have a permanent eff,%q in making "r
!at Army more dis7osable, by increasing or '...i.'llloea-
ing the Army of Reserve. Ai a pers' ‘
1,,, to
sure, then, he conceived it also oppressi\le,),',•erl;
the Parishes, and particularly to the Parish to L
he therefore disapproved of it as a permanent
sure.

130,1 •
ColoNel MITFORD also disapprove," of the -
on nearly the same ground as Mr. BATA
taken ; he thought that large standing Armies
always been, and must ever be, theruin
free Stare, not to mention the Manywas ind, exariapies::
which theage of Ancient Historyc
should onlyp
r)°w state the-exatere• that Fray;
held out to
them. A few year's ago there w
some millions of men in that
c,uotry,
1_
perhaps a mistaken zeal
ed by 21.1 ardent, though
for Liberty, as ever ,ny Nation was aroiafer`
by.`They were ready to fight an to die
Liberty-, and yet what has been the "cci cousequ..
,„
in the course of a ft:short regular w years; the regu fto
rartn of a large stAntiinr-Arany, ler; killed
soirit of liberty, and those millions who were arrnb,
for its defence, are now kept in die mOst.ahje°
Jeaion by z or 300,000 of Regular Suidie,rip
This was an example which this Country "'""Ii
cioa
well to consider with attentinn. Our ConOtilt tit
was altogether different front that 'of the.Colitini,"4o, •
Nations, and he wished much Ministers woul"'corr•
ploy tbeir great talents in improvbig die
System, which, in this Country, was most Pfour
ful, when most consonant to the free principles°
Civil Constitution. I Bill,
Sir JOHN WROTTESIT supported'. tl'e
He • '
eonceived Gendetnen were mistaken, wh" vete
posed.that this•Psill imposed any Add Of se
theory
duty on Parish Office's. Whatever was. the ,ce,
of the Constitution in this respen, yet n
; i Prerae,,eri -
forave thCalway last 4
ino or 50 years, the P
hs terfered with respea to the Mlle
As to the increase of the Regular Lie •0;110 •
ceived it was a thing universally wished t""
could say that an occasion might not occur, sto "
the
would be of the utmost possible advantage •
Country, both now, and for its future a"a
manent security, that we should have a lafgerenup
posable Force ? He did not allow that the"";haf.
try was exhaused of Recruits ; he thotiet
every year ought to furni-s-h its supply
men, enlisted, as most of them were, itnilleir‘Je.
ly• after serving their apprenticeship to sonle: o' the
'The Honourable Member then went fully
Bill, which he supported with considerable 11,0",ohe
Mr. FULLED, after very shortly spealting.ht-on-'
Bill in question, alluded to an expression (ais..gurol-
derstood it) of Mr. YORKE, of a party b'ivi-never
ed out the Administration ; for his party have
wished to turn out the Hon. Gerstleman, bu";,rn•lit
his exertions under the direaion of a 1113 n s„aritrf'
conceived to possess the first talents in tile -,,iotitre
(Mr. PITT) ; he did not wish ,e
for a id) 00
system either ; wished to see associated t";,iertil
Right lion. Gentleman, Mr. Fox, wbc'(loini'
were also transcendant. Under such a" bee"
stration, he hoped that the War would hay" or
conduaed with "the greatest possible suceeose'koetsf
Peace made on the most honourable tern's'
ereign 01.
that in the magnanimous mind of the Sot,i,ere "15
this Country, next to personal courage, 50E1 or-c-
-m) virtue in ;re prominent than a gener, ,s„,ition o'.
giving disposition ; lie knew that a':/ P 7,
the Lilo/arch, (a loud cry' Chair
" • J
to the lon •
On which the Speaker i'appealed
bey' s 3-,econewon whet! I r t peL
:Cr Dr ci" ll'
10°1 •
v ratrug from' the question then, „tivee.l'
the Hon. Member, I am for a Coalition v",
those Gentlemen; °and what is more than Indof 1.11 e•,
nion, say, I convinced that the opini'';', r ,
Public is 'the same way. (The Hon. Vlem,ue,o3lira .
several times called to order, for digressiog 1,e3 ,
question before the llciuse, b regularly ret 0( 01'2)"
o se, t
the principle which be•lwished to impress 01,,
llouse, in such a manner as occasioned conside,
laughter). oulr
Mr. DENT reminded the House, that this W 35 ,10
a question for the second reading of the J. scal
not whether they should agree to the measure'
t)ioto
only, whether they would entertain it,-and g 51,11, ,r
a Committee, in s' hint stage it might be ion,
ciog
—He charged the late Administration with 11 f„r.
brought lbrward a measure they html abendon!'
which this was a suitvite :--he thought it fa,
'e ,t
time to bee. another Adannlstr.tt ion to blilfatel
ward treasures mf)re teaLc al,!e.. then 000,
to observe, that he had it said by 311
,ff
Cv...nrlemm lee? to.niee,
• yid 013
Je
speech-but it ri,q tie! fe (Jr..
ail extra.nrdinary spceel in t I .:,.e----111""
. .
ner,d was sent Int to cwile oCc,,
ecanolaisoi tI infitter,e, tee! le),,,es of in,i're''
j tit
boa I want to kr,ew v.e;hz,- the- t
n, 1,411 •
ae only towc !kat :.elloh•; an ir,i,Tenderq
FarliJilleta, atii ~v62:1,,:r die Member to:

the only Member • who doe% not want a place—
'Deice! Order/ Chair! Chair!) from different
Darts of the House.
Mr. SPEAKER decided it to be disorderly, to
tridee any di•gracehal or personal allusion.
111 r. ELLISijN spoke to order.—'' I appeal to
you, Sir, and to the 1--i,use, whether I brought a
eliarge against an
Hea y Member of the House, (//ear!
r! Hear!) either for City or Borough, or
against his Constituents for not sending Independent
Aqk'inberS. I ask, and I hope lam not wrong in so
doing, it I did any thing more than assume to myself
it dependence; and that I did not trouble the House
"'ter', and never but from a sense duty ; if I said
any thing more on that subjea, or to offend any
Gentleman in the f- Ouse, I most humbly beg par-
k! ;if I have said any thing that tended to convey
:t thought that Hon. Members were actuated by any
but independent motives, lam liable to be called to
order for indecorum, and I am obliged to the House
for overlooking an offence which I had no intention
to conitnit.—(Chair I Chair from several par-
sers.)
Mr. DENT.•^" I Only wish to call the attention
of the House to this—Whether, when a dire& attack
is made on Government, and a fad. is stated that a
General was sent for, for public political purposes,
I have not, as I say I have, a right to remark upon
that assertion. I did understand also, that some-
thing like an -arplication was made to a Militia
Officer, fur a similar purpose, which was reftved ;
1,25 I believe ever
: y Gentleman comes into this House
fore" intention to speak his mind—l•will there-
.' , put
k mkt,
arrelf under your prweCtion while I
I declare tl r whatever :he Hon.
iG.entleman may think, I meantla nothing personal to
tirri ; but I contend that I have a right to remark on
%%flat is. advanced, otherwise We may be ac-
cused without being allowed to defend ourselves
against the accusation." Mr. DENT then proceed-
ed to support the Motion fur the second reading of
the -Bill 'ofn said it was a measure which the de-
ficiency the late Administration had rendered
necessary. It was not the first time this had been
declared in that House, and he believed it would
not be the last. It had been said by an Hon Gen.
tleman, who did not speak more bluntly than honestly
(Mr. FoLLER), that we wanted an Administration
on a broad basis. If we had not an Administra-
tion on a sufficiently broad basis, it was not the
fault of the Right .1-Inn. Gentleman below him, but
that was no argument against reading this Bill a se-
cond time, which he supported, conceiving that if
there were any material faults in it, they might be
'removed, and the whole Bill ameliorated in' the
Conbmittec.

Sir LAWRENCE PARSONS believed there was
but one opinion in the House as to the expediency
of making provision for an increase to our dispos-
able Force ; the only difference was as to the man-
)ler in whiCh we should obtain that addition. would ould state fairly his H
opinion, which was, that the
measure proposed by the late Administration was
preferable to this, and preferable to any other he
had heard of, as applicable to the object it professed
° accomplish ; but he supported the resent, because
v„Ile was convinced that at this-crisis some teleasule
z"'lls1 be resorted to ; and he trusted this might be
improved in the Committee. He hmented
.that
When mealures were prepoed by the late Adminis-
4taAtiont-elarnourairat raised against them, and they
gave them up. This was not the course he thought
proper to he followed at the present moment.
Mr. CHAPMAN made 4 aistinetion between our
Home and Colonial demands, and rezommended that
...idea to the House. Spoke highly of the system of
~Militia, a Force lie considered as the guardians of
,out Liberties and Properties; and observed, that he
should Rot assent to arty encroachment upon the
principles of that system.
Lord DE BLAQUIERE considered this measure
as necessary to render fruitful a piece of imbecility
engendered by others, but he would not vote for it,
if he were not convinced there w
in agitation that would ere other measuresbe brought forward by the
jßight Han. Gentleman flow at the head of His Ma-
esty's Councils, to whOse genius, as well as corn-
manding influence, he looked up for much energy
jo behalf of his Country ; but he also.took occasion
to of
that such talents and virtue as lie saw op-
P°skte to that Right Hon, were not made
Gentleman
. avadable to the service this C of
uy at this pe-
ntr
riial. Such ;in event he consid
Order being called, the SPEAered as a calamity.KEß
ther this was not a deviation from submitted whe-
it ?
Lord DE BLAQUIERE said he did not mean to
transgress the bounds of order, and he conceived he
had not done so ; and repeated his coofalence in the
advantages that would result to this Empire if the
Ilight Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded, had a
share in the Administration; that he had not, he
regarded as a public calamity.
• I:°Me. II'iNDIIAM then rose, and proceeded to take
tice of the observations of Sir LAWRENCE PAR.
b )
the with which he did not agree;
for it appeared
t
vi, the Hon. Baronet seemed to think, that,
tfatever was proposed to that House was worthy
t.
.if ba Second reading, by way of giving it a chance
etng inoulded into a good measure in the COM.
Inittee. The Hon. Baronet had acquiesced in the
)'econd reading of this Bill, although it was inferior
10 another measure which had been already rejeaed.
!I'this course was. novel ; he preferred the old course;
ntl, therefore, instead of sending
tore to a C a proposed mea-
ommitee to give it the chance of becom-
i"g Palatable by amendments, he would investigate
t before it was read a second time. He then
pro-
t=eeded to examine the arguments in support of this
lill, as well as its provisions, and said, that much
t)f the arguments in its support arose out of a corn-
Patison with other measures which were rejealed.
And here he de-:ended himself for die part he had
itaken upon tire discussion of oth ermeasures ; but
t'ae did not allow that the tickets of any of the
torrner measures could he taker) as evidence of the
!:merits of the present Plan, unless our situation was
:nuch that we had to choose Got of the two evils, which 11 case, to chew the defeats of the one would ).e a conclusive mode of reasoning in favour of the
I)ther--that was not Our case, we were nor driven
:c)_ that alternative. This Bill contained a provision
ta,l;ich
Was of a compulsory nature, and yet the
mpulsiokaawas of no use for theroper object of
the Bill, that of raising inert, for riot one man was
to be r4iscd by the compulsory part of the Bill. The

• whole of the Bill, as far els-it went to r rise men,
was a system of voluntary service, and as such it was
no better than that .which he recommended ; for his
was a system of voluntary service. The Army of
Reserve itself, of which this was a kind of substitute,
was not a system of compulsion in any instance,
for no man was compelled to serve under it, as he
might commute the service by the payment of a fine,
i
As to the Militia, t appeared that the ballot was so
far from ailing compulsorily on thoSe who were
drawn, that not one in 99 of them had served in
person. We had at ieest 200,000 men in the
service who were not serving by compulsion in the
Army, but serving for bounty—why then the men
were to be had, and the question was, what were the
best means of obtaining them ? He agreed that the
bounty should be reduced, and that we should have
recourse to recruiting ; but then he maintained it
should be by the ordinary mode, not that of Parish
Officers, which lie condemned : he maintained that the
Public Money thus to he employed should be under
the care of Officers, Sojeants, Corporals, and those
who had some knowledge of the Recruiting business.
He objetted to the system of our having a double
Force, an Army of unlimited service for life, and an
Army of limited service for a term of years—lf they
were all upon one footing, that of being unlimited
as to service, but limited as to time, it would be
much better, because there would then be only one
service to go to, and men of military habits would
enlist them as readily as they do now ; but while
there were two, the unlimited service for life could
never be recruited. This system was therefore a
bad one. He objeaed to this system, from the ef-
fed it must have on military feelings ; he desired
that military honours, military distinaions, and all
military advantages, should be confined to one body,
and that to the regular body ; he was averse to any
system by which we could possibly have the form
of the Soldier without the substance ; where the
honour could he separated from the danger. This was
the case by our having a hams army, as it were
in oppesition to that of an army of unlimited service.
By this the fervour of military spirit was damped,
when rank, honours, distinctiou and applause, were
not confined to that species of military force
which had a chance to encounter danger. It was
thus we lost the " Chief defence of Nations," so
beautifully stated in a celebrated publication. It
was thus we should destroy our own strength. He
did not approve of the system of two battalions in
this Plan, by which it was expeCted that a man ac-
customeri for a while to military habits will enter
from a limited into an unlimited service. Men might
acquire militar) habits, and yet they might never go
from a limited into an unlimited service; they might
renew their engagement in that service which was
limited, but never enter into that which was unlimite
ed. The two• services were not like the two sto-
machs of cattle who chewed the.cud, who masticated
their provender in the false stomach, from whence
it passed into another stomach, and thence into the
general system of the animal economy, but they
would remain in the ruminating false stomach for
ever. ! He did not say there were no advantages
attending this Plan; what he said was, that if
the advantages were weighed against the disadvn-
tages, the balance would be found to be against
this measure. He then took notice of the manner in
which the Army was proposed to be recruited under
this Bill, and he condemned it with much severity.
The only possible advantage to be derived from it,
must arise front what was called the aaivity and
zeal of the Parish Officers, who were to be quicken-
ed by the apprehension of a fine ; and on the other
hand there was to be a Bounty if they were success-
ful : this was a curious system of re,eards and punish-
! merits : this was placing the Parish Officers in
the situation of Recruiting Officers, in Which it was
very disadvantageous to them to be placed, for
they must either turn Crimps themselves, or apply
to Crimps to do the business for them. Parish Offi-
cers would make very bad crimpsthey would go
to real crimps—they could not, under such a Bill
as this, do without them ; they were the middle-
men, and would be as necessary as warehousemen,
as intermediate agents between the buyer and the
seller of the commodity ; when each of them was
ignorant of the other's wants, they must thus be
brought together by the person who knew the course
of the market better than both together, and who,
therefore, for their mutual interest, they employ
between them : besides this, he apprehended much
rersecution to the inferior classes of society by.
this parochial Recruiting—men who were called
vagrants, or those resembling them, would be forced
to go. The Churchwarden of the Parish was to
be an aaive Officer in this case. He had heard
of an union between Church and State, but this
was an union between the Church and the Army ;
it was an improvement upon the (Joanne of the
Church Militant. There was also in this system a
fruitful source of litigation, in which the Lawyer
might " beknave the Divine." Certainly. it was
easy to foresee that much litigation must arise by
Parishes being sued, either for penalties for not
furnishing the number of men, or furnishing such
as were improper; and that there would be many
such, he saw no chance of avoiding. The Pa.
fish Officers would naturally take the most despe-
rate and worthless man, as they were interest-
ed in taking the first that would offer ; and
they would naturally be such ; that they would be
the refuse of the parish—from houses of industry
and correaion, and from the work-houses ; and
he would submit to the House, whether it was to
our interest to have our Army so supplied, and then
to hold the Army up as an honourable body. In a
word, this was the very worst species of Quota .
Bill ; and whatever some Gentlemen may say, or
think to the contrary, he had no doubt but the
men furnished by the Parish Quota Bill were the
cause of the Mutiny in the Navy, which et one
time created so much well-founded alarm. He
was well informed, that out of a thousand of them,
not three hundred did duty on board ship. But he
could not help observing on the most glaring injus-
tice in the mode in which the fine was to be imposed
in case the men were not raised. The bounty wars to
be limited, and the place wherein the recruiting
was to take place was to be limited, and if it be-
came impossible to raise the merounder this compli.
cared difficulty,
what was to be the consequence -?
Why, that a fine was to be levied on people for not
doing that which they could trot do ; and the Bill

statel, i 1 they should trot raise tlle trier, or if ;11,7
slion;d he una!ale to raise them, then they are to
be fined. He maintained th!t this ,wits gros:, ai
palpable injustice upon the face of for it wns fining
men for what they Might be unable to do. Ile
maintained that if this Bill was carried into effea,
at best it would only furnish the Army with a worth-
less rabble, whereas he wished it to be filled with
;Tien of very different charAtfier;, and he wished
better provisions to be nude f,r the Army, and that
they should have solid advantages in addition to
faint and glory, for their toils in the field. Braving
recapitulated his objedions, he concluded with giv-
ing his decided negative to the Bill.
Mr. FULLER explained.—He said, by the com-
mon law of this Country, persons called night_
walkers (not of the female kind) who had not done a
day's work in a given time, and could not give a
good account of themselves, might be committed,
and such were vagrants : this he mentioned in con.
sequence of what the Right Hon. Gentleman who
spoke last, had said on the probable abuse of the
power of Parish Officers on this Bill.
General NORTON expressed (as we understood),
his approbation of the Bill.

Mr: WARD defended the Bill, which he con.
tended was pettedly consonant to the ancient usages
of the Country. .
The question was then loudly called for, and the
Gallery was about to be cleared, when
Mr. PITT rose.—He had expetted, he said, that
he should have heard those who were most in the
habits of delivering their sentiments in that House,
and therefore should not have spoken, had not the
Debate appeared to be drawing to a close. Before,
however, entering into the consideration of the
question immediately before the -louse, he wished
to take notice of some observations which had been
personally direCted towards himself, some flattering
him with praise, and others, on the contrary, in a
tone of accusation. He had been accused, as if he
had forfeited sonie pledge, but had he nut now
forward the measure which he recommend-
brought fo
before to the House ?—He then recommended it on
the same grounds on which he now brought it for-
ward--the measure was then distinctly approved,
and was preferred to that brought forward by the
Right Hun. Gentleman (Mr. ADDINGTON), by se-
veral Gentlemen who now opposed it. He confess.
ed he was; id some measure, mortified and disap_
pointed, that many of those who had supported this
measure, when he before recommended it, and which
was now brought forward with no other alteration
than they themselves suggested, should now turn
round upon him, and in an unqualified manner op-
pose the whole. He was surprized, that an Ho-
nourable Gentleman opposite to him (Mr. Fox) had
not delivered his sentiments upon the subject ; he
did not' mean, at 'the same time, to represent,
that that Honourable Gentleman had given any
pledge, but it did appear a little singular, that now
the measure was brought forward; after receiving
the concurrence of that Hon. Gentleman, with the
exception of One objectionable part, which was now
omitted, that it should not have the support of that
Hon. Gentleman, the only difference being the
Omission of what respected the ballot. The Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. WINDHAM) had, however,
chosen to suppose that ballot had formerly been his
(Mr. PITT's) favourite Order of the Day, and that he
had now, unaccountably, and, on a sudden, de-
serted it. The House, would, however, recol-
led, that he had before objected to the Ballot
being brought home to the poorer orders of the Peo.
pie, compelling them either to serve or to' pay a
heavy fine, and that his proposition was to take off
1 the pressure of individual compulsion. What was now
the charge? simply, that having had, in the mean time,
the means of ascertaining how little the ballot corolla-
' buted to personal service ; he was tempted to try a
moderate fine, and a small Bounty; but upon farther
investigation, finding that a heavy fine, and a large
Bounty, in many Counties, produced only one-thir-
teenth of the whole number for personal service, and
in others only one-sixteenth, he was induced to give
up the Ballot altogether, retaining only a fide as an
inducement to bodies best able to pay. On this
ground he had a right to ask in what particular he
had failed in meeting the just expectations of the
House ? It had been said that if this measure was
all they were to exped, then the .danger of the
Country was not so great as he(Mr. PITT) had repre-
sented it ; he had but proposed it before as a more
efficient measure than that proposed by the then
Ministers, and better calculated to meet the
danger of the Country, and - he had the con.
currence then of those who now opposed it, and op-
posed it without even hinting at any other mea-
sure instead. But it was not merely this speci-
fic measure, of which he had given notice ; he had
already stated, that an inquiry was on foot as to the
propriety of rendering the services of those soldiers
limited in point of time, which were unlimited in
point of space; the result of that inquiry must, in a
great degree, guide him in other measures. Besides
he had never, as had been alledged, contended that
the amount of our Force was insufficient for our de-
fence ; he had only expressed an opinion that the
allotment of the different parts was not originally
wisely distributed; he also said, that all was not
done that ought to be done fpr improving the qua-
lity of our Force. The House would recoiled, at
the same time, that he had suggested several prin-
ciples
.with resped to the i rovement of our Vo-
lunteer Force, many of w inn, vere incorporated in
(sa,
the Volunteer Bill a and the one on which he most '.
relied, that of encouraging the Volunteers to go on
permanent duty, was acted upon, even before the Bill
passed into a Law, to so great an extent, that every
one must be satisfied that the Volunteers in general
were now in a far different and more improved state
of discipline. The House would also recollect the '
statements he made with respett to our Naval De-
fence, and the propriety of erecting fortifications in
various exposed spots ; these objects could make no
part of the present Bill, but he begged that the
House .would not imagioe, that they were forgotten
by Hiss Majesty's Ministers, and he trusted
that the Executive Government was aCtiog upon
them al this moment. When be came more '
immediately to the general quesrion of the pro-
priety of the present Bill, he could not help remark.
ing what a sort of cold, verbal approbation had been
given to it by some Gentlemen who had not chosen
to oppose it, It was not long since they hod heard

froro a Right ITon. (Canelfelar: j yle. WIND .I%;}
danger of the Co re t t tenpeted lonic ii the Imo's
est tones; they Ito! .heatl, it recommended in the
strongest tnanner, tint they were not tO toer=ure the
situation of. the Country by the Maxims of (Fah.
times, but that they ought to raise their minds a d
their exertions to a level with !he danger. Ile fe:t
at the time the manliness and die part iotism of ibis
advice ; but were they now, instead of all this, to
hear a discussion about the burthen of the Poor's
Rates, and the expellee of a supposed litigation he.
tween a Deputy Lieutenant and an Overseer, which
would be more than the parish could bear !
must own he did not expeti to hear the tone of
the Right Honourable Gentleman stink so low
(Hear ! Hetni ). He hoped they would not
forget the sacred and necessary duty imposed
upon them. He admitted that every burden was
an objeaion, but let them argue in a fair way,
let them not appeal to inferior interests, or co-
deavour to get rid of a measure by words. They
were told the Bill would convert Parish Officers into
Recruiting Serjeants ; and suppose it did, if an ad-
dition was thereby tn ide to the military feelings cif
the Country, he desired to know whether they would
not be amply overpaid ? It Was said that this noel.
sure was novel iu its nature; on the contrary, he had
availed himselt of the to .chinery which had been iu
use for fifty years past, for raising a certain descrip-
tion of military force in the Country, a machinery
which had been extended to the Army of Reserve ;
and by mean; of which a greater number ()linen had
been raised than ever had been before in the same
period of time. He did not understand, tinted re,
the nature of these imputations—He would ask,
first, whether a greater number of . persons could
not be got for limited service than for general sr r_
vice ? Secondly, whether a greater number of
Recruits were not likely to be got from.hmited ser-
vice to general service, that; from the plough or
loom ? And, thirdly, whether they were not likely
to be better soldiers than raw recui:s ? Did they
not know that a greater number Hof men had been
raised by local Recruiting, then could hive been
recruited by 'the Regular Army in the same space of
time? Did any man believe that to,ooo men raised
for the Militia and At my of Reserve, since the spring
of last year, could have been recruited in that space
of time, by any possible means, by the Reguhir
Army ? With respeCt to the aecond question, he
would recur to the test of experience ; the Militia
had furnished little less than 30,003 men to the Re.
gular Army. The Army of Reserve was only began
upon in August last ; it of eaurse took seine length of
time before the men could he raised ; before they
could be got to their quarters, or assume military ha.
bits ; yet, let it be recotleaed, that out of 30‘003
men, 13,000 had entered into the Regular Army.
—Then if at any future period, at the breaking
out of a war, they might be enabled to call out
70,000 men, of the description which lie now wish-
ed to raise, would they not have a better Regular
Army procured than had ever been known in this
Country ? And need he detain the House by proving
the superiority of such men over rae Recruits ?
His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. WINDHAM), had de-
scanted in praise of Regular Troops, but the ques-
tion was, how far the regular means of Reeruitiez
would go? He believed die Right lion. Gent. would
find it difficult to send Recruiting Parties into every
Parish in the Kingdom ; and was it not better, that the
Parish Officers should carry the King's Bounty to
each man at his door ? The Plan, besides, gave
persons of Landed Property a dired interest in pro-
curing Recruits ; and were not the Parish. Officers
likely to get more men than general Recruiting
Parties ? They had keen told, that the Bill gave a
power to Parish Officers to kidnap.and entrap men ;
but did they forget that there were Laws, aed Ma-
gistrates to execute them ? and, as to force, there
was not one word in the Att about it. Another ob_
jeaion was, that these poor persons who refused to
become Recruits, would feel the effes'ls of anger of
Churchwardens and Overseers when they came to
solicit relief ; but what description of persons were.
those who in general applied to Parishes for relief ?
the lame, the infirm, and those with large families.
Was it likely that the Churchwardens and Overseers
would look for Recruits amongst the lame or the
blind, or think of taking a man who was the father
of ten children, all of whom must necessarily in
consequence become a burden upon the Parish ? and
even supposing a Perish Officer was inclined to op.
press a poor person in this respecl, were there not
Magistrates to appeal to, who would see justice
done ? Another objection was, that the charac-
ter of the Soldier would be depreciated in the
general estimation, by die assumption of it by
those who were dissociated front danger; but if those
who were,associated together for rile Defence of the
Country, were to be degraded in point of military
spirit,because they had not an opportunity of fighting
the battles of the Country abroad, then was our dan.
ger greater than ever, for where were we to look tor
defence when those who started forward in! our be-
half were to be considered in a state of ?
The regulation with respeft to Officers, would ensure
the Army proposed to be raised under this Bill ex.
perienced Officers, and with them the Troops might
be rendered as near Regulars as
.possible, in
point of discipline, and a large portion of the
Regular Army thus rendered disposable. It was,
he said, to be observed, that at the present moe
ment a new Military System was required, adapted
to the disastrous state of Europe, and therefore some
departure from established principle could not but
take place. To meet this exigency the present Phu
was calculated ; and he fruited would he esteemed,
in the judgment of the House, sufficient. One of the
principal objects of the Plan was to provide every
year for an accession of i7.,00n men to the Regular
Army, the vacancies occasioned by which would lie
filled up in the way pointed out by the Bill, without
at all interfering with the usual mode of Recruiting.
Under such a provision, was it possible that any one
could assert that the prospect of keeping the Balta_
lions of the Regular Army full, wai not infinitely
greater than that arising from any posfible ope.
ration of the present mode of Recruiting ? At pre-
sent, the Regular Forces of the Country, 'io_
eluding the different brancheS in England, Ire-
land, and the Colonies, was 140,000 men ; and
the addition of effective Force, the operation of this
measure would at least produce, was 1.1.00n00
more, This augmentation and permanent source of

sufply, he traveLl, was as great as the most san-
guine wishes of flit Right Honourable Friend

(.Mr. WINDHAM) could Propose. The measure had
doubtless every reasonable prosper' of success;
but whether, in 661, such were or were not the re-
sult, they were- now to, chuse between complicat-
ed difficulties, and would only decide according to
the rational presumptions of "the case. A Right
Hon: Gentleman (Mr. YORK E) had complained ot,
the ptcsent measure as if he had been guilty of-in-
onsistency by relinquishing the mode of ballot ; but
he would hardly state that a ballot, though original-
ly proposed, was the substantial object of the Plan.
He had already stated on what ground he had relin-
quished that idea. While he thought that mode eXec_
tual he was a warm friend to it ; but on coming into

efiicc, he had had occasion to learn, by indisputable

docuinents, that it was ineffeBual. Oat of the 35,000
men raised under the Army of Reserve Bill, it ap.

reared only two or sOOO were raised by that mode.

It was theiefore necessary to endeavour to ,supply
the deficiencies of that plan by some other. Accord-
ing to the present measure no compulsion was to
fall on individuals, but if the Quota of each Parish
was not made,up, then an equivalent rate was to be
made on the Parish in general. This would give
every individual in the Parish a motive to induce,
by every means of private influectr, proper indivi-
duals to enter. It must be recolletted that the House
had already determined to put a stop to high boun-
ties ; and it appeared their sense, that individuals
should not be vexed by ballot. What then was to be
done ? Sorely no measure w..uld be so operative as
that of giving every individual, a motive to

influence persons to enlist for moderate boun-
ties. This was all the efficacy that could he
given, unless the House were driven back to those
measures Of high bounty, or ballot, which they hid
'already relinquished, unless, indeed, they meant to
say, that as they would not have all they desired by
extra exertion, they would have nothing. He was
not, however bound to prove the fact, that the pre.
sent Plan would he efficacious to its objeift ; it was
sufficient for his purpose if he shewed that it was
likely to become so. To judge of its operatiOn,
it was not sufficient to say, that the wood sources of
Recruiting, as it had been expressed, were " dried
op;" those sources, by the natural operation of time,
became again replenished : young men grew up; ap-
prentices served out their time ; in fad, the Recruito
ing had lately a good deal revived. Between Feb.
and the present time, 4 or ecioo men were obtain-
ed from. the ArMy of Reserve. Another error also
was manifest in the fernier mode of Recruiting
for the Atorky, of Restive. The distribution was
made wilhour any attention to the number of
Volunteers cxistieg in the respedive Districts.--
Where nineteen out of twenty were exempt, it was
impossible that distrift could furnish as many as
another, where not half that number were so re-
leased from the operation of the ballot. Another de.
felt was also observable : the penalties of the for,
met Aft were very high ; but no mode was ap.
pointed for recovering them. So, that in point of
fad', there was no compulsioh used in the Army of
Reserve Plan at all. By the present Plan, a mo.
derate fine was fixed, but then a really meanS"of
rai,og it was established. This, therefore, might
make the measure more operative; and constituted
an additional argument in its favour. He should, •
notwithstanding the attention he had bestowed on
the stihjeft, think it his duty to listen attentively
to any objection, and to its detail, which might
be made in the Committee ; and he should be anxi-
ous to receive every amendment consistent with the
general principle on which it was grounded. The
ruling ohjea was, in a moment of imminent danger
to provide some effectual and permanent Plan of Mi-
litary Defence for the Country ; and believing such
to be the effea of the Bill, he trusted it would re.
ceive the unequivocal sanftion of the House.
Mr. FOX rose at half past one• o'clock, and in a
speech of considerable length opposed the measure.
On a former occasion he had voted with Mr. PITT,
and in favour of this Plan,. for two plain reasons,,.
Ist, Because he thought any Plan „corning from
him, it was fit . to listen to—and ad, Because
he disapproved of the measure then attempted
To he carried by the late Administration, namely,
the Army of Reserve. He thought, however, Mr.
PITT was the last person who should catechise them
on the ground on which they had joined him.' As to
his nor having proposed any Plan of his own, let the
House recoiled that he moved for a Cominittee to
inquire into the state of the National Defence, and
that Mr. PITT voted with him, when the Motion
Was brought forward, and approved of the identical
measure. This he would move again to.mor.
row-, and should see if he would then vote with
him.-7(A laugh).- His own Plan was objected
to by several of his Friends now around him.—
It was true they might say, we did not wish to hear
it, but now we have, vee ',Fprove of it. Thiio in
candour, he was obliged to allow possible ; but then
let them ad consistently, and, at least", give him
and those with him, though in a minority, more the
means of being heard, with a little credit. Though
disapproving of the present Plan, he confessed he
should prefer it to that of the Army of Reserve.
He feared that the power given to the Constables
and Parish Offiners, wOuld be abused in its exercise,
and thought that its local influence so relied on, would
be converted into Pounds, Shillings, and Pence,
and so 'restore high Bounties. Here Mr. Fox
strongly reprobated the idea of alluring the soldier
into a limited service,, for the purpose of afterwards
entrapping or kidnapping him into an unlimited ser,
vice. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQU'ER had
spoken of the influence of parents and relations ope.
rating to keep youths from the Army ; but would it
not be much. worse to deceive those parents and re.
latinm:? lie had also observed, that the recruits
I,'rould enter on his Plan soonest : certainly they
seetild, and thit made it more objectionable, for it
tell cut a competition with the Regular Army.
Let 411 competition and impediments be taken
away compulsion did riot seem to be necessary.
1, 'it- t.-.re necessary, it must be resorted to,
theujk not certainly for Foreign Service. But
first let voluntary Recruiting he tried, and be
tried fairly, by removing all obstruCtions to 'it.
Begin first with the Foreign Service, and when
Certain point is gained in that branch, let the
other descriptions of Forces be attendatie but
let the most inipeutant have the: precereLnce..• He
concluded by observing, that the ?resent Bill, • for 4

which there had been so much preparation, and about
which so much had been said, was not worth the
trouble that had been bestowed upon it by such a
person as the Right Hon. Gentletnan.:
The Question being then loudly called for, the
House divided,
For the Motion, 221
Against it, - x 8 r

Majority, 40
At Thtee o'Clock in the Morning, the House
adjourned.

MAI LS.

DUE. ARRIVED.
lia►riburgh 2 -

PRICE OF STOCKS,
THIS DAY AT TWIELVE O'CLOCK.
Rcd. .:11111. - - - 55 o Omnium - - 3
Consols for July sO

THE SUN.

SOLEM QUIS DIDEILE FALSUM AUDEAT ?

LONDON, JUNE 9, 1804.

LAST night a very long Debate took place in the
House of Commons, on the second reading of Mr.
PITT's Bill for the better Defence of the Coun.
try. Upon a question of such great magnitude,
it was natural to expel} that much difference of
opinion should prrevail, but tlthough there was a
considerable Minority against the Bill, we trust that
Mr. PITT will persist in a Plan which, as far as we
have been able to consider the subject, appears to
be admirably calculated to increase the regular Mi.
litary Force of the Country. A great degree of exul-
. •
tation has been expressed by The Opposition Papers
this morning, at the, largeness of the Minority, but
it is by, no mean; to be inferred; that all those who
oppose this Bill, are hostile to Administration.; for
we know that several Gentlemen, 'who are decided
Friends to the present present Ministers, felt them-
selves bound to vote against this measure from
motives of consistency, having upon former oc.
casions given, their support to a Plan of a dif-
ferent tendency. The Division, therefore, of
'last night can by no means be considered as what is
called a fair trial of strength between the Parties.

THE following particulars have been received
with respea to the firing which took place off the
Funch Coast on Sunday last. The Jamaica and
Champion Frigates ; Dart, Orestes and Speedy Sloop
of War, and Fuu Bomb, sailed_from the Downs
on Sun:lay morning, but in consequence of a calm,
did not reach the .French Coast till the evening,
when they discovered about 20 Sail of ;he Enemy's
Vessels proceeding along shore between Calais and
Boulogne. On the approach of our Squadron they
constrict-iced a heavy fire, aided by the Batteries on
shore, which unfortunately, from there being too
little wind, -our Ships .were unable to return with
eifea. On the approach of day-light next morning,
it was discovered that the Enemy had taken advan-
tage of the night, and returned to Calais.

Yesterday evening, about six o'clock, 'THEIR.
MAJESTIES, in a post-chariot, followed by the.PR/N-
-cessEs and DUKE of KENT, in two coaches and
four, 'took an airing in the neighbourhood of Brent.
ford, and .returned soon *after eight.
Yesterday, about one o'clock, the Russian Am.
bassador had an audience of- Lord HAR ROWS Y, at
his Office.

Yesterday, at two o'clock, a cabinet Council was
held at Mr. P ITT'S House, which was very nume.
rouslyi attended.

Lord anti Lady VILLIERS have left Osterly Park
for the Earl of JsasEy's seat in Oxfordshire.
Yesterday a Court of Common Council was held
at Guildhall, at which were present the Lord Mayor,
Six Aldermen, the Sheriffs, Recorder, and a great
number of Commoners.

The LORD MAYOR laid before the Court, Letters
-he had received from Adrniral-CoßtitvALLis and
Rear-Adibiral NHORNBROUGH, expressive of their
acknowledgments of the rfeiht of the Vote "of
Thanks of' chic Caw. of the 26th of nipih
to the Admirals,-Captains, Oflicetb; Seamin atkt
Marines'of the Fleets blockading ate' Encitty's
Ports.

The Court voted their Thanks to Capt. Dom rrr,
First Captain under Admiral CORNWALLIS, whose
name was, by mistake, omitted in the former
Thanks. lb

•
The Members in Patliamcnt for the City were
requested to oppose the Bill nOw pending in Par-
liament for the Re e. of cenitin Incumbents of
Livings. •
Mr. ROSE, jun. yesterday metwith a sevtre acci-
dent in the House of Commons. He had come express
from Southampton, and was seized with a dizziness
in the, head, upon ,the stairs, which occasioned a-
violent fall. LYNN, of Parliament street, was
instantly sent for, and we are happy to repeat his
opinion, " that the accident is not likely to be fol-
lowed by any very serious consequences."
K.I.;MBLE played Ofiarvitm, in The Mountaineers,
for the fifgt time, last night, at Covent Garden
Theatie. His person, talents and •habits, are well
fitted for this- charin'ter, which he performed in the
mast animated and interesting manner.' The Play
altogether -went off very
- Mr. .Stec the Dancing-Master, we have
-,u-t•hdriiy for stating,' has been appointed by the
Hon. JOI3 N SP:E NC F and F. H. GIL EVIL L'E, Esq.
Master of the Ceremonies -to the Assembly and Ball,
which succeeds the Amattur Concert, at the Hano-
Ner-Square.Rourivi:Five •English-Dutchestes pa-
troniZe this 4iiiendid EntcriAil;ment,

AAP.,I L NEWS.

TORBAY, JUNE 7.—Arrived the Nemesz's Fri_
gate, and the Pheasant Stoop of War, from a Crui4e.

PORTSMOUTH, JUNE B.—Arrived the Prospro
Bomb, from a Cruize off the Coast of France.

Came into Harbour the Zo/us Frigate.
His Majesty's Ships the l' Atheniene, with tier
Convoy for the East Indies, the Beaulieu, with
her Convoy. for the West Indies, -and the Ambus-
cade, with her Convoy for the Mediterranean, yet
'remain, the wind being still at Suuth.west.
Arrived the Sea Nymph,, FERGUSON, from Sun.
derland.

SHEERNESS; JUNE B.—The Court-Martial held
on board of His Majesty's Ship Amethyst, at the
Little Nore, to try Capt. ALEXANDER CAMPBELL,
the Officers and Crew of the said Ship, for miscon-
duet in, the late Anion which she had with some
Privateers off the Coast of Norway, having beard
the evidence adduced on the part of the prosecu-
tion, as well as what was offered in their defence,
adjudged Capt. ALEXANDER CAMPBELL to be dis-
missed His Majesty's Ship Amethyst, and put at the
bottom of the List -Of Post-Captains. The rest of
the Officers and Ship's Company were acquitted.—
Messrs. MARTIN and ERACINE, jun. attended as
Counsel for Capt. CAMPBELL.

This day the Imalortalite Frigate, Capt. Owsx,
was taken into Dock to be repaired.
Went out of Harbour the Rattler Sloop of War,
Captain MASON, having repaired the damages sus-
tained in Sir SIDNEY SMITH'S A4tion with the
Enemy's Gun-boats.
The Charles Armed Ship, and Aaive Cutter,
are expeted to sail to.morrow with 36 sail for the
Baltic.—Such Ships as sail in future for the Baltic,
must comply with the 43d Geo. 111. chap. 57. and
bring a certificate to that effea, or they will not
rcrive Convoy Instrudions.

DEAL, JUNE B.—Arrived the Flamer Gun brig,
from the Note ; Sheerness Lighter, from Sheerness,
for Boats from the King's Yard, and remain with
the Ships and Transports as per last.

Mrs. HEATHCOTE, of Portman square, had last
night a charming Concert, which was attended by a
numerous train of the fashionable orders. The Band
was led by CRAMER. Mrs. ASHE was delightful
in a beautiful Italian Air', and two favoUrite Songs
of HANDEL. The WELCHES, and a Mr. MAGRATH,
contributed their vocal exertions. ASHE and LIND.
LEY- distinguished themselves in a Coricertante for
tilt'. Flute and Violoncello. CRAMER acquitted
himself in a masterly manner in a Violin Quartetto,
and the, whole went off with great precision and
spirit.
Yesterday evening the Countess of BRISTOL was
safely delivered of a Daughter, at his Lordship's
house, in St. James's Square.
. SHROPSHIRE REGIMENT OF VOLUNTEERS.—
This fine body of men, in number nearly 2000, one
of the largest Regiments in the United Kingdom,
was -inspected on Saturday the 2d instant, on their
parade ground, by Lieutenant Culonel CHAYTOR,
I. F. 0. of Volunteers for that County, whose at-
tention to the duties of his station, we understand,
has been invariably unremitted. When the Corps
had gone through the different marchings and ma-
nceiitvres, the Colonel expressed his opinion of their
discipline and good condua during their stay in
Shrewsbury, to Col. KYNASTON POWELL, as nearly
as we could coiled to the following purport

'- SIR,

" I have great pleasure in declaring my entire approbation
of the appearance of your Corps this day, and of the manner
in which they have performed their manoeuvres ; and I shall
have infinite satisfadion in making this report to Lieutenant-
General His Royal Highness Prince WILL; AM FREDERICK.
I understand the. Mayor will present an Address of Thanks
from the Corporate body to you, Sir, the Officers, and Men
under your command, for their good conthitt during their stay
at Shrewsbury on permanent duty—will you' allow me to
add, I Wave been a witness to their exemplary condud,
and that they are justly entitled to this acKnowledgment.
I beg to return my best thanks to you, Sir, the Officers, and
the Corps, for the great attention I have at all times ex-
perienced, whenever I have had the honour of inspeding the
Corps.

After which the Mayor, in pursuance of the Re.
solutions of a House. Meeting of the Corporation,
held the preceding day, presented the following
very flAttering and highly honourable communica.
lion Colonel POWELL :
" At an Assembly of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Assisr.
ants, of the Town of Shrewsbury, held in the Guildhall, the
first day of lune, 1804:
" It was unanimously Resolved,

" That the Thanks ot this House be given to Col. KY.
N ASTON POWEL L, and the other Officers ot the Regiment
of Shropshire Volunteers, under his command, for the po-
lite attention they have shewn to this Corporation in parti-
cular, and the Town in general, while upon permanent duty ;
and for that good order and regularity which have prevailed
in the Corps, and which would have done honour to the most
experienced Regiment, and have so materially conduced •to
that mutual harmony and good understanding between the
Soldiers and the Inhabitants, which are soilignly honourable
to both.

" That this House cloth highly approve and acknowledge
the steady, soldier-like, and exemplary condua, uniformly
displayed by the Non-commissioned- Officers and Privates,
and that the Commanding Officer be requested to signify the
same to them.",

The Regiment then formed a circle, and Colonel
POWELL addressed them in a very appropriate
speech, particul-arly urging them to persevere to the
last hour of their stay, in that line conduit which
had drawn forth such. honourable testimonials of ap-
probation from the Inspening Field Officer, the
13Jdy Corporate, and the Inhabitants in general of
Shrewsbury. This was followed by three cheers from
the Corp:;, which soon after marched in regular or-
der to town; and previously to being dt,,missecl,
each individual received a printed Copy of the fore.
,Oing Resolutions, as an encouragement to future
g''
~d order and discipline. About six o'clock the
poilnies,tning, the Regiment assembled in se
parace and st Aon after roarclied csi to
their respeF}ivy Homes.