The Sun.
London, England, 1867-10-17 00:00:00

raeli on the other? The Russell and Gladstone "
Ministry sacrificed office in order to carry a Reform
Bill ; the Administration of Lord Derby and Mr.
Disraeli carried a Reform Bill only because they
would not sacrifice office. (Loud cheers.) Ile
asked those present to agree with what Mr. Lcat-
ham had said as to the honour of public men and of
statesmen, and then they would agree with him
(Mr. Baines) that if the leaders of the Tory party
had been honestly convinced that they had been
wrong for so many years, and at last saw it was
necessary and safe and wise to carry a Reform Bill
the course of honour was to say, " We arc not the
persons who have all our lives opposed it to be the
means of carrying it ; but a Reform Bill should be
carried by Reformers, and, therefore, we resign and
give place to those whose duty and prerogative it is
to carry one." (Loud cheers.) But what was the bill
which after all they brought forward ? It was
just a nose, of wax which might bo twisted into
any shape by those who were around it.
(Laughter and "Hear, hear.") They knew what
Lord Cranborne said about it in the last debate.
He said that it had the ten fatal vices which had
been pointed out by Mr. Gladstone early in the
Session, and every one of which had been removed
at Mr. Gladstone's dictation. Then he (Mr. Baines)
would say that the bill as it passed with its good
points was not the bill of Mr. Disraeli certainly, but
a bill which he allowed to be shaped by those around
him, his own business being to stick to his post.
Now, he (Mr. Baines) was not disposed to sail under
false colours. (Hear.) They knew that in former
times he had frankly told them when he did not
entirely agree with them, and they had always been
so kind to him that they had received what they
knew to be his honest and hearty sympathy—(ap-
plause)—in the substance of their demands, and not
exacted from him that he should go the full length
that they went. He did not believe, then, that they
would fiud fault with him now, when he acknowledged
that he should not himself have gone the whole length
of househould suffrage. But he believed that suf-
frage he was prepared to adopt would have been
utterly as extensive and vastly more satisfactory—.
infinitely less unsatisfactory, as experience would
show, than the measure which had passed, and which
would lead to endless complications in consequence
of the payment of rates. But now having said this,
because he did not wish, and could not bear to ap-
pear before them in false colours—having said this
frankly, he would add that he was not afraid of
the suffrage being intrusted to the householders of
England on one condition—namely, that they
could get the honest, the uubought, the unforced
verdicts of the constituencies. (Applause.) What
he had always been afraid of, and what seemed to
him a measure rather to be approached gradually
than adopted suddenly, was what Mr. Bright had
expressed his doubt about, namely, that there were
certain classes scarcely deserving to be called the
working classes, certainly not the enlightened think-
ing artisans of our great towns, but a class below
them, and he was afraid of the effect of intimida-
tion and of the beer barrel upon a certain class.
(Applause.) He wanted to know how they were
to get rid of that danger. It was a danger
which still loomed in the distance. He confessed
that he himself did not know how to do it, except
by the adoption of one measure, and that was a
measure to which he believed they (the Reform
League) bad always clung. (Applause.) It was a
measure, too, which he had always maintained. He
did not see how they were to avoid the enormous
influence of the purse, exercised in every variety of
improper manner, except it could be by the ballot.
(Loud cheers.) It had always seemed to him so
clear an acknowledgment of the right of con-
science, and of the right of every man to exercise
his own judgment in giving his own vote, that he
never had seen how it could be fairly and honestly
withheld. (Applause.) He knew there were those
who differed from that opinion, and he could only
say that what he had stated was the light in which
it presented itself to him. He believed the ballot
to be the only effectual means of preventing the
evils to which he had alluded, and be did not see
why they ought to have any fear of that which
would enable every man to exercise his vote accord-
ing to his conscience. (Hear, hear.) One word
more and he had done. lle had said in the speech
he made in the House of Commons in bringing for-

ward his Bill, when it was thought that in some
dozen boroughs or so throughout the kingdom there
might be a majority of the working-class voters,
and when that seemed to be a terrible bugbear to
many gentlemen—he said he was not really alarmed
at the prospect of having working-class voters or
having working-class representatives. (Hear,
hear.) It seemed to him that, on the contrary,
it would do a great deal of good to both
sides to have working-class representatives.
(Applause.) First of all, he thought it
would bring a great deal of valuable informa-
tion to the House of Commons itself as to the inte-
rests and opinions, the wants and sympathies of the
larger portion of their fellow countrymen ; and he
believed, in the next place, that to those who might
get into Parliament it would also be a great advan-
tage. They would there have the opportunity of
comparing and exchanging opinions with so many
men that, perhaps, if they had prejudices and pre-
possessions of their own they might be led to mo-
dify some of their views. At all events, there would
be a fair expression of opinion on the part of both
parties, and it seemed to him (Mr. Baines) that
good and not evil would flow out of it. (Hear,
hear.) He retained the same opinion still. (Ap-
plause.) He should not be in the least sorry, but
glad, to see some of the hardest headed, best edu-
cated, most virtuous, and best informed members of
the working classes taking their seats in the House
of Commons. When he said that he must be
allowed to explain. He did not think, expressing
his own opinion, it was desirable that they should
appear there simply as the representatives of labour,
and as representing only tha working class. He
thought they should appear there on a level, on a
complete level, with all the rest of the men who were
assembled there--(hear, hear)----with the best uni-
versity scholars, the practised statesmen, the gene-
rals, the admirals, the governors of colonies, the
great travellers, the merchants, the manufacturers,
and the men of high names and long descent and
great titles, who appeared there. He thought they
should appear on a level with them, and as repre-
senting like them all classes of the people, and not
one class alone. He thought they would stand in a
very invidious position indeed, and that it would
damage there influence there if they went
simply to appear there as the representa-
tives of labour. He did not think they
would have the weight they otherwise would have. It
was always a delightful feeling that came from the
blending of the different classes of society together,
and whatever differences there were amonc, them
socially they should diminish the breadthb and
strength of them as far as they could, and seek to
consider the interests of England alone, and with
patriotic hearts and a brotherly spirit meet
there to do the best they could to consult the
greatest happiness of the greatest number. The
hon. gentleman then sat down amid loud cheers.
The toasts which followed included " The Reform
Act of 1867," " The newly Enfranchised," and
Civil and Religious Liberty." To the last-men-
tioned Mr. Edward Allan should have responded,
but he was not in attendance, though his name ap-
peared in the printed programme.

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