The Sun.
London, England, 1858-11-09 00:00:00

AUDITORS,

Adolphe Boursot, Esq., merchant, 9, Hart-street, London.
Charles Whetham, Esq., merchant, 38, Gracechurch-street,
London.

BANKERS.
The City Bank, London,
The National Provincial Bank of England,
The National Bank of Scotland, And Branches,
The Aberdeen Town and County Bank,
The Provincial Bank of Ireland,

SOLICITORS.
Messrs. Young, yallings, and Jones St. Mildred's-court,

London.
BROKERS.

Messrs. Carden and Whitehead, 2, "Royal Exchange-buildings,

London.
OFFICERS IN AUSTRALIA.

Robert Archibald Alison Morehead, Esq., Head Manager and
General Superintendent.
Matthew Young, Esq., Assistant Superintendent and
Accountant.
SECRETARY (pro tem.)—Charles Grainger, Esq.
OFFICES 01' THE COMPANY.
24, GRESHAM-STREET, LONDON.
O'CONNELL-STREET, SYDNVI, N.S: WALES.
ABRIDGED PROSPECTUS.

The Scottish Australian Investment Company, through
their Manager at Sydney, have long directed their attention
to the acquisition of Lands known lobe rich in Mineral Pro-
ductions. They are possessors of the various Properties men-
tioned in this Prospectus, upon some of which valuable de-
posits-of Copper and Coal have already been proved to exist
but being a Company formed for the Investment of Capital
and not to carry on Mining Operations, they are not in a posi-
tion to develop these Mineral Properties on their own account.
It is therefore proposed that a new Company shall be formed,
to be called, "The Scottish Australian Mining Company
(Limited)," which shall purchase for the'sum of Thirty Thou-
sand Pounds, to be paid partly in Money and partly in Shares,
with certain Royalties, the said several Properties and work
them, commencing at first on a moderate scale. The Com-
pany will also take powers to acquire by purchase or other-
wise such further Mineral Lands in the Australasian Colonies
as shall be deemed desirable.
The following are two of the principal Properties mentioned
in the Prospectus :
No. 1. The Good Hope Property.—This Freehold Property
comprises about 400 acres of generally good, well-watered
land. It is situate near the town of Yass. There exists upon
this Estate a remarkable Copper Lode, of great width, and
standing above the surface in a continuous line (with slight
intermission) for more than a quarter of a mile, and in some
places rising above the level of the ground to the height of
twenty-five feet. The lode is strong and large, and stands
above the level of the River from forty-five to fifty-five
fathoms. Captlin John Dailey, of St. Austell, in Cornwall,
of great mining experience, has twice examined this Lode
and taken out a ton or two of ore, samples of which, weighing
from two to three cwts. each, are now in London. The ore
is red oxide, mixed with native copper, and green
and blue carbonates ; and specimens, broken promiscu-
ously from separate blocks now lying at the office of the
Company, have been found to yield on assay the high
271,f e
h,
eaandd
et
ept e
de r cea
undt .d
rf e
op ut
or
de
copper: one
osfam2ll,e2w7k
j02h713,1r.
to be assayed in the Colony yielded no less than 741 per cent.
of pure copper. The ore is sinilar in character to the ore at
the Burra-Burra. It will be seen that the opinion of Captain
Aix ndtx
Dpalley,wl fully bearsselteport
outon tthheisuPborzesrttaytowmiellubtes. found in the
No: 6. Dartmouth.—Thia Freehold Property, consisting of
100 acres, is pronounced by H. T. Flews, Esq., M.E., who
made repeated surveys of the Hunter River Coal Field, by
instruction of the Manager of the Scottish Australian Invest-
ment Company, " the best position attainable for commencing
operations" in coal mining in New South Wales. It is
situated about five miles and a half from Newcastle, and con-
tains, as may be learnt from Mr. Plews' Report, which is ap-
pended, a seam of coal, lying nearly in a horizontal position,
of superior quality, and six feet in thickness at the outcrop
near the foot of a hill, whence of course it can be worked
without the expense of shafts, and the usual accompanying
machinery. A portion of this property consists of fertile
land, on which a considerable sum has been expended in
bringing it into a state of cultivation and erecting a house.
This property had been long under- the notice of the Ma-
nager of the Scottish Australian Investment Company, as a
most desirable site on which to establish a Colliery ; but he
did not succeed in acquiring it until June last ; and the
purchase having been then made in contemplation of the
immediate formation of the present Company, this valuable
estate is now made over at the price at which it was pur-
chased, with the mere addition of a small commission and
expenses.
The nine other properties, believed to be of considerable
value, are described at length in the full prospectus.
Applications for Shares must be made in the annexed form.
Each applicant will be required to pay .in to one of the
Bankers ofthe Company Five Shillings per share on the num-
ber of Shares applied for, in part payment of the deposit of
Ten Shillings per Share; in exchange for which a receipt
will be given. In the event of the Directors allotting less
than the whole number applied for, the amount paid in to the
Bankers will be applied towards the deposit of Ten Shillings
per
Share payable on the number allotted ; but in case no
allotment be made, the money so lodged will be forthwith
returned in full.

Prospectuses, Mining Reports, Forms of Applications for
Shares and of Bankers' Receipts for Deposits, may be had of
Messrs. Carden and Whitehead. stockbrokers, 2, Royal Ex-
change-buildings; at the City Bank; or the Offices of the
Company, 24, Gresham-street, London, where plans of the
property, a section of the Good Hope lode, and ore from that
property, may be seen and examined.
•
London, 26th October, 1858.

FngOsßpMe r
OF IC
[When filled up by the Applicant, to be lodged, with Fire
Shillings
Share,APwPiLthonAeTolfOtNhe FClRpaSnßyA'sßßankers.]
TO THE DIRECTORS OF THE SCOTTISH AF3TRALIALN MINING
compAziy (LIMITEM,24, GRESHAM-STREET, LONDON.
Gentlemen,—Having paid into the hands of the
Bank the sum of £ to your credit, I request you
will allot me Shares of £1 sterling each, in the
above-named Company, and I agree to accept such Shares, or
any less number that may be allotted to me. And I hereby
also authorise you to enter my name in the register of share-
holders for the shares so allotted.
Name and Surname in full
Address in full
Description
Number of Shares (if any) held
in the Scottish Australian In Shares.
vestment Company (Limited)
Dated the day of 1858.
* It is stated in the last Report issued by the Australian
Agricultural Company, that they sold in '1857, 85,002 tons of
coal, the produce of their colliery uear Newcastle, which
yielded, at the moderate prices then current, a net profit of
£25,007 os. 3d. The Chairman stated at the meeting in Lon-
don in July last, that the company were making from 30 to 40
per cent. on the coal they raised. About six months prior to
that meeting the shares stood at £2l per share ; they are now
quoted at £35 per share. A seam of coal of six feet in thick-
ness is usually estimated to produce about 700,000 tons of
marketable coal. Parties are now paying, at the present low
rate of freight, £2 10s. a ton for English coal delivered at
Port Adelaide.

*** The Prospectus, at length, will be found in the
" Times," "Daily News," "Standard," and "Daily Tele-
graph" newspapers of Friday the 20th, and "Morning Chroni-
cle and " Mining Journal
." of the 30th ult.

SCOTTISH AUSTRALIAN MINING COM-
PANY (Limited.)—No APPLICATIONS for SHARES
in this Company can be received after FRIDAY NEXT, the
12th instant, on which day the list will be closed.
13y order of the Board.
C. GRAINGER, Secretary (pro. tem )
243 Gresham-street, Loudon, S.C., Ngyeraber 5,1e58.

• "Dr.. Giffard was born in Dublin on the 4th of Aug., 1788,
and died at Folkestone on the6th of the present month, having
just entered his 71st year. His father, John Giffard, of Dro-
martin in the county of Dublin, Esq., a man who occupied a
large space in the politics of Ireland in most troublous times.
was the son of a gentleman of the- house of Giffard of
Brightley, in Devon, who, going over to Ireland early
in the last century as a partisan of the* de facto Lord An-
nesley, in the famous case of the Anneiley peerage, married
and settled there. Mr. John Giffard, in the period of the
Irish rebellion, and while the state trials which preceded it
took place, was selected by the Government of the day for
the perilous office of Sheriff of Dublin an office which he
exercised With a determination and effect that ensured for
him and his family.an amount of hatred from the defeated
party, and from it certain section of the Irish, which has
not been unfrequently displayed. Mr. Giffard's hostility
to the insurgents was not abated by the brutal murder of
.his second son, Lieutenant William Giffard, by a mob lying
•in ambush, beta; 11-11)- was found in the King's uniform,
His youngest EOl, whose death' 'we have the truly
melancholy duty to-day to record, was at a very early Age
sent to the grammar school of Mr. Samuel White, cele-
brated as having had the hollow -to have wider hivare
Sherid an and Tom Moore. Atpn equally unusually early
age Dr. Giffard entered Trinity College Dublin, where he
aelieved all the honours of his time, and laid the foundation
of that classical, learning •which he did not possess merely
as an acquiremenVhitt wielded with a polder of application
both severe and witty, which those, only familiar
with his style could properly appreciate. In May, 1811,
having gone through the usual exercises, •-Dr. Giffard was
called to the bar by •the Middle Temple, and made that
feint of practising which scholars and men of letters are apt
for some time to attempt. He neither had the tempera-
ment, however, nor the disposition ,to make a successful
barrister, and his logic was too close and his language too
elegant for that pursuit. He gradually, therefore, neglected 1
legal duties, and devoted himself to literature, editing at
this time anonymously some editions both of the Classics
and of Hebrew, with which latter language he all his life
kept up his familiarity, and from which he translated some
episodes of the Talmud that we have seen attributed to
other pens. His first engagement as a journalist
he made with the - St. James's Chronicle, where,
as to learning and readiness, he was not an un-
worthy Successor of two of his illustrious countrymen
who had contributed to the same columns, Edmund Burke
and Oliver Goldsmith. - His hereditary family politics and
his own ability had directed to him the attention of the Irish
Tory party, and he was asked by the then Primate of Ire-
land to some into Parliament for the city of Armagh, but
declined the proposal, being always unsuited by his habits
for public display, and having that shyness before an
audience which arises from indulging a studious disposition.
In the
,St. James's " Chronicle he continued to be a writer
during.the exciting period of the trial of the Queen and the
Ministry of Lord Sr mouth, at all times showing the same
character of unswerving loyalty to a principle, and strongly
supporting Lord Castlereagh. At length it became obvious
that it was -determined to carry the measure of 1829, now
called Roman Catholic Emancipation ; and the Standard
appeared as the uncompromising opponent of the policy or
honesty of the act, opinions which Dr. Giffard never aban-
doned, refusing even the solution offered by one of his most
distinguished friends, fiery non debuit, factum valet. He
looked upon the Roman Church as simply a political con-
spiracy carried on under the name of Religion, and although
he bore sincere friendship, and did innumerable kindly ser-
vices to Roman Catholics, he gave them credit as far as
their religion went for little more discrimination or inde-
pendence of thought in that particular matter, than if they
had belonged to some of the philosophical sects of the
middle ages. The Standard expressing as it did the opinions
of so many in the Church and in the country, and being
conducted with unexpected vigour, soon rose under Dr.
Giffard's direction into an importance which made its oppo-
sition very serious. In fact, it expressed at the time, and
that in language far above the phraseology of journals, and
with illustrations drawn from a rare and general fund of
learning; the indignation of the Churchmen of England
at the -sordid*race for votes which had just then begun in
relation to Roman Catholic Emancipation. The writings
of any man, however able or learned which have for their
subject the passing questions of the' day, necessarily are
of an ephemeral nature, but it may be fairly said that
as regards learning, eloquence, and argument, the
articles of Dr. Giffard against the bill of 1829, continued as
they were throughout two or three years, have not been
surpassed. in the history of journalism. The bill of 1829
was passed, and the Whigs having found the Irish contin-
gent ready, to- their hands, started the Reform agitation.
The Standard had now another field, and the editor entered
-upon it with characteristic vigour, and to his suggestions
-and arguments it is not difficult to trace some of the modi-
fications which the bill received. In this .period of transi-
tion the peculiar powers of Dr. Giffard were called forth by
subjects which he treated con amore. The Irish Church, of
which he was for years the sole champion at the metropo-
litan press of England, was labouring in the distress of a
tithe war, an agrarian system of massacring the clergy, and
the appropriation motions of Mr. Ward. The case of that
Church was stated by Dr. Giffard in the Standard, and by
his friend, Sir Ifobert Harry Inglis, in the house, with a
power which not a little contributed to its being saved at a
time when a powerful party in Parliament were urging its
destruction on a weak Administration, and when the
Government depended for its own existence on the votes of
certain Irish members bound to obey the late Mr. O'Con-
nell. At this period the conduct of foreign affairs became
an engrossing subject, and the peaceable Government of
Louis Philippe seemed disposed to alter its character.
Tho Standard, generally admiring the policy of that King,
endeavoured to allay the cry for hostilities got up in certain
quarters in England, and continued to advocate with de-
voted ability the Throne of July, to the last prophesying
that end of the republic which followed rapidly. In the
controversy with the Anti-Corn Law League, and in that
on the Navigation Laws, Dr. Giffard had more scope for
powers which transcend mere vulgar debate. The depth of
the principles involved and the extent of the interests at
stake, made both these questions more the subject of specu-
lation than of certainty ; and the attack of Mr. Bright from
the stage of Covent Garden Theatre, upon Dr. Giffard by
name was sufficient proof how far the weapons of the
Standard had reached the political enemy. During this
period Dr. Giffard undertook for a short time the manage-
ment of the political department of the Morning Herald. After
the sudden, and at all events unexpected, repeal of the corn
laws by Sir R. Peel, he adopted that section which looked
on Sir Robert's conduct as wanting in honesty towards his
own previous followers, and dealt with the event as mem-
bers of a deserted party will. -In the general election which
followed Dr. Giffard offered himself as a candidate for the
representation of the University of Dublin in Parliament,
more, however, to meet a challenge than with any serious
intention of sitting for the college. In the violent contests
which arose on the Irish Municipal Corporations Bill he
had strongly defended those corporations—more aristocra-
tic than commercial--which had been so long existing in
Ireland. That of Dublin in particular, with which his
father had been identified as its principal executive officer in
times of great danger, he particularly defended, when Mr.
Shaw, its recorder, had declared his intention of assenting
to the bill. In this controversy Mr. Shaw had challenged
the editor of the Standard to " come from behind his lair of
anonymous types," and Dr. Giffard accordingly offered
himself on the hustin;a of his own university, sad was re-
ceived by a great body of theelectors with much enthusiasm.
He contented himself, however, with stating his opinions
to the college, justifying his conduct on the Dublin Como'
ration Bill, offering Mr. Shaw what explanation he pleased,
and then retiring from the contest. From that period public
questions were not of that importance that demands any
very brilliant effort from a journalist, and Dr. Giffard's
failing health and want of interest in questions that were
not of the spirit of his time, induced him to retire from the
press, especially as the journal with which his name had
been se long identified was about to assume a form and sys-
tem more suited to. the commercial spirit of the present
time.

During his long and onerous newspaper labours Dr.
Giffard found time to contribute to the Quarterly and
Blackwood, and had projected and begun some historical
works, with which we do not know far he had proceeded.
One was a "Life of the Great Duke of Ormond," and one
a work which he was the only man of his time fitted to
accomplish, a " Vindiciae Anglican," intended to give
for the first time a true account of the government of
Ireland by the English. We have heard, also, that he had
adventured some of that kind of historical fiction of which
his friend Sir Walter Scott was the founder. • These works,
with his political essays, and espedially those biographies of
great men, at whose death he did so nobly and so imparti-
ally the sad task which we grieve to have to endeavour to
do for hires to-day, it is the duty of his representatives to
give the world, for we doubt if so much true scholarship
and so much matured thought will soon again be expended
on the pursuit of journalism.
To estimate the character of Dr. Giffard would require
some of the power which he himself devoted to such sub-
jects as Canning, or Cobbett, in the pages of the Standard.
With all his sincere devotion to the Church of England he
joined a Presbyterian plainness in reference to ceremonial,
and though a true Tory in politics he was always
careful to distinguish between an ancient and
plebian aristocracy, and not slow to point out
the faults, either of the Peerage or the Church. Half
a century of daily reading, added to a memory unusu-
ally accurate and retentive, had.made his accumulation of
ger eral learning s)em almost incredible in amount, and the
readiness with which he availed himself of it in composi-
tion was one of the greatest charms of his writings. In the
obduracy of his sympathies and antipathies in
_politics he
was a man after Dr. Johnson's own heart, and with him
departed, perhaps, the last of the school of the Georgian
political writers, who brought so great a fund of learning to
the pursuit of the press.
Dr. Giffard died of an excruciatingly painful disease—
cancer, which ho had borne with a courage that prevented
those around him from perceiving the amount of his suf-
ferings.

[AnvEumstmENT.—Rarey's Horse and Cattle Improv-
ing Food is equally adapted to improve the stamina of ill-
conditioned Horses, Cows, Bullocks, Calves, Sheep, and
Pigs. It causes no extra expense, as it contains far more
and better nourishment than its cost of lid. per feed sup-
plies in corn and hay; hence ensures an actual saving in
the keep. But its principal "advantages are a great improve-
ment in the digestive functions, the stamina and general
condition of horses enabling them to perform far more
labour without getting distressed. It imparts new vigour
to sick, debilitated, or old apparently worn-out horses, and
it puts rapidly the finest flesh on cattle generally, and im-
proves the milk in cows, as it enables them to extract the
entire nourishment out of everything they feed on. RareY
and Co:, 77, Regent's Quadrant, Piccadilly, London.
Packed in tins of about 90 feeds, lls. ;In casks of about 450
feeds, 60s, ; of about 1,000 feeds, 45, being about lid, per
feed,

Mr. WEBSTER presided, and having briefly ex-
plained the purpose of the meeting, remarked that
many had supposed Mr. Williams's conduct in refe-
rence to Lord Palmerston was objectionable. (No.)
They had now lived long enough to change that
opinion. He hoped, however, as they were livine. on
the eve of stirring times they would tell their member
plainly what they wished him to do. A Reform Bill
could not be long delayed, and it was their duty
to confer with their member, let him know what he
was to. insist upon on their behalf, and through him
to inform the governing powers what,they were de-
termined to have. They must look: to measures
henceforward, not men. If he were-disposed to fol-
low any statesman of the present day,: it would be
Lord J. Russell. (Hear.) But the time was come
when the people must help themselves, and not de-
pend upon Lord this or Lord that. The Times said
that John Bright could not concoct a Reform Bill :
but why not John Bright as well as anybody else ?
—he was one of the people and knew what they
. wanted.
Mr. WILLIAMS, who was warmly welcomed, said
he had invited. his constituents to meet him that he
might give them an-account of his conduct in the
last session, nod to afford them an opportunity of
demanding any explanation they might desire. He
could not suppose he had succeeded in satisfying all,
and in every particular, but he was ready to give his
reasons for every . vote he had given. He had not
been absent a single day or a single night' during
the whole session. (Hear.) They could hardly form
an idea of the arduous duties of a member of Par-
liament who conscientiously carried out the trust
reposed in him by his constituents. He had during
great part of the session to be on a committee at
eleven o'clock in the morning, and to remain in the
house until two or three on the following morning.
When the Reform Bill was carried, Lord J. Russell
said that among other advantages that would fol-
low was the putting an end to past-midnight legis-
lation. But that had not been the case, and he
believed that the session of 1858 was more remark-
able for late hours than almost any of its predeces-
sors of late years. He had always been strongly
opposed to the transaction of the legislative busi-
ness of the country at unreasonably late hours,
for the consequence was that important mea-
sures were hurried through without discussion
and almost without the knowledge of members.
If a few members would unite with him he
hoped to put a stop to this system. The last
session commenced on the 3d December, having
been called together for the special purpose of
passing an act to enable the Bank to set aside tem-
porarily the provisions of the Bank Charter Act, in
order to ease the pressure upon the money market
which then existed. It was somewhat curious,
however, that the mere passing of thatnct had been
quite sufficient to meet the object in view—the
ewers it conferred never having been resorted to.
hen Parliament reassembled in February they
would recollect that the Government brought for-
ward the Conspiracy Act, at the instigation of the
French Government, in consequence of the attack
which had been made upon the life of the Emperor
of the French. They would recollect that a long
debate took place upon the first stage of that bill,
and that upon a division 99 members, himself being
one of them, voted against its introduction. (Hear,
hear) They would remember the bullying tone
assumed by certain French colonels and officials,
and that although the Lord Chief Justice of Eng-
land stated that the existing laws of the esuntry
were sufficient to meet the case, the Government
still proceeded with the bill. Upon the second
reading, however, a resolution was moved by Mr.
Gibson as an amendment, which was carried by a
majority of 19, and that led to the resignation of
Lord Palmerston's Government. When the new
Government came in their first act was to bring in
a bill of the most incongruous and unaccountable
character to transfer the government of India from
the East India Company to the Queen. The dis-
cussions upon that subject occupied the greater
part of the session, and upon every division which
took place he was present doing
.his duty, as he
best could, with the view of improving the measure
and making it suited for its purpose. Ultimately
the Government bill was withdrawn, and another,
founded upon the resolutions suggested by Lord J.
Russell, was carried. And he believed that that
bill, which effectually, removed the powers of the
Government from the jobbing East India Company
and:placed it in the hands of the Crown, would be
attended with beneficial results, and afford satisfac-
tion-to the people of India. He (Mr. Williams) did
not care what party was in power, if they intro-
duced measures for the public good they should
have his cordial support, but if they brought in
measures which he thought injurious to the country,
they should have, be they Whig or Tory, his most
earnest opposition. (Cheers.) Lord Derby's Govern-
ment during the past session had lent their aid to
the passing of a bill for enabling Jews to sit in
Parliament. It was a queer, crotchety sort of bill,
but it effected the object in view, and placed the
country:in the high and proud position that no man
could be excluded from his political rights on
account of his religious opinions. He was happy
to say that under it Baron Rothschild had taken
his seat as member for London by virtue of that
bill. (Hear.) This Tory government had also given
their aid to the passing of another useful measure
—a bill to abolish the property qualification of
members. (Loud cheers.) The immediate effect of
this bill was not, perhaps, so important as the prin-
ciple it introduced. Henceforward any man who
had a majority of the electors in his favour in any
borough or county might take his seat in the
House of Commons without any question as
to what property he was possessed of. (Hear,
hear.) He would refer to a few of the principal
questions upon which he had voted during the ses-
sion. The first question of importance was the
motion to support a commission to inquire into the
state of education. Nothing was more wanted in
this country than education ; but the great differ-
ence of opinimi that existed on the subject had
hitherto prevented any satisfactory settlement of
that long debated question. He hoped, however,
that the labours of that commission would ere long
enable them to frame a measure which should satisfy
all parties—by each conceding something to the
other. He supported that motion ; and he voted •
for the total abolition of church-rates. (Cheers.)
He voted against the motion that was brought for-
ward to make the landowners of the country bear
the burden, because he was for the total and un-
conditional of the rates. He was convinced
that if this impost were abolished, the members of
the established church would provide ample means
to maintain the fabric of the church and for
public worship. Why should they not do so as
well as the dissenters, who paid their clergy, built
their chapels, and maintained them without any
aid ? (Hear.) He voted likewise for the abolition
of the Lord-Lieutenancy of Ireland. (Hear.) This
was a very costly concern, and after all was but a
ridiculous sham royalty, and which inflicted an in-
jury, as he believed, upon the people of 'lreland
rather than confering any benefit upon them. lie
voted for theabolition of the Septennial Act and the
substitution of triennial parliaments, and for Mr.
Locke King's motion to reduce the county fran-
chise from £5O to £lO. (Hear.) He voted likewise
for that most important of all questions, vote by
ballot—(hear)—without which a Reform Bill would
not only be incomplete, but scarcely worth having.
This was aquestion which did not affect the consti-
tuency of Lambeth personally, for the large menu-
, factoring and commercial houses there did not
interfere with the votes of those they employed ;
but if they went to many parts of the country
they would find that a system of coercion exten-
sively prevailed, whereby the aristocratic land-
owners and the great squires compelled their
tenants to vote for them and their nominees, as
though
atnelaenrtds.' voHteeslw_eteerde
iancttuhaellpyastt session alsohe property
to abolish the protectionwhiredehh, formtemb heers couldo notfPariia-
ment enjoyed from arrest for
understand why
liinamaryenetenwrhseo
owed money should
be flee
a member
• ee fr o motfh ePoarici
of law any more than other people. (Hear, hear.)
He voted several times against the pernicious
measure which enabled candidates to pay the ex-
penses of voters going to the poll, which he thought
was calculated to encourage bribery and corruption.
Re made several motions against various items in
the estimates. He 'believed as many as twenty-
five divisions were taken against the extravagant
estimates of the past session, in all of which he
voted against the Government. (Hear, hear.)
This would give them an idea of the general
character of the estimates. But he brought forward
One moat impOrtant motion yfith regaxd to supply,

which, had it been carried, he was persuaded the
consequence would have been that a large saving
would have been effected in the public expenditure
, without impairing in any way the efficiency of the
' public service in any department. That motion
was to refer the army and navy estimates to a
committee, but he was in a minority, twenty-six
members only voting for it. They would be
astonished if they knew how small a woportion of
the money voted for those two services was ex-
pended in the pay, provision, and clothing of the
troops and seamen. He believed that the com-
mittee, had it been appointed, would have struck
out hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds
from the gross aggregate of the estimates for the
two services. They had seen lately statements of
the extraordinary frauds committed in Clothing the
army: - He -(Mr. -Williams) had always had an im-
pression, and which he had expressed over and
over again in the House of Commons, that the
public money was not safe—that the public ex-
penditure was not properly looked after under the
existing system. A. committee was some years ago
appointed, at the instance of Sir F. Baring, on the
subject, and they found that although the expendi-
ture amounted • to between £60,000,000 and
£70,000,000 a year, there was no effective check—
no protection. They passed certain resolutions
with a view to the establishment of greater se-
curity. ,But although the Government of the dam
promised to bring in a bill to carry out those reso-i
lutions, nothing had been done. it was only just;
however, in reference to the present Government,
to say that they had as. yet had no opportunity of
taking steps in the matter. Under the old borough-,
mongering X'arliaments the army and navx_expeni
diture had been much less than it was now. 11, heat
Sir R. Peel and the Duke of Wellington were in
office—the one the greatest statesman, and the
other the, greatest general of modern times—
£ll,s7o,ooo was found to be sufficient for the army
and navy expenditure; whereas last year, under
- the Government of Lord Palmerston, it, was
.L 22,520,000, or almost double—in fact, upwards
of £11,000,000 more. (Shame.) He was sorry
to say that the Military expenditure proposed
by the present Government was but very little less.
Ministers and gentlemen connected with the mili-
tarp services were always holding up the Emperor
of the French' as a sort of bugbear to justify a
heavy military expenditure, on the plea that it was
necessary to protect ourselves against invasion.
Why, there had not been for ages on the threne of
France a man more disposed to maintain friendly rela-
tions with this country than the present Emperor. It
Was his interest to do so, and we might depend that
he would always consult his own interest. In the
year he had referred to, when Sir R. Peel and the
Duke of Wellington were in power, the total public
expenditure was £15,730,000 less than it was under
Lord Palmerston's Government last year—(shame)
—which £15,000,000, had it been saved to the
country, 'would have enabled the Government
take off the whole of the income tax, abolish the tea
duty, and the duty on malt and on hops. Tea would
have been is. 4d. a pound, and good strong beer
might have been sold at 2d. per pot. (Hear.) Then
the present Government in their estimates this year
wanted £7,500,000 more money than they did in
1852, when they were last in power, and the only
explanation they gave was that they could not
make reductions all at once. (Hear, hear.) These
were matters it was the duty of representatives
to attend to. One of the first duties of the House
of Commons in. ;olden time was thought to be to
hold the purse-strings of the nation, but now they
seemed to think their duty was to open the
purse as wide as possible. Again, with regard
to the civil service estimates—in 1830, when the
Duke of Wellington was Prime Minister, the total
amount was £2,000,000. Last year, under a re.
formed Parliament, and with a liberal Government
in office, it was £6,000,000, exclusive of the expen,
diture on account of the revenue, as the excise and
customs, which amounted to between £4,000,000 and
£5;000,000 more. If these matters were looked into
as he proposed by a committe many millions a year
would be saved. He brought forward another im-
portant motion for imposing the probate duty upon
landed property, which was not successful. They
were aware that every description of property ex
cept land paid probate duty. When a poor man died
he had perhaps a few pounds in the savings bank,
the Government could send in a broker to value hip
furniture and clothes, and if his whole property was
worth £2O his children must pal, 23 per cent. upon
it ; but if a nobleman died leaving estates worth
£2,000,000, his successor did not pay a farthing.
(Shame.) Was not that-abominable? (I es.) He also
proposed that appropriated tithes, which amounted
to a large sum, should also pay probate and legacy
duty. The tithes in many parishes were in lay hands,
ancidescended like other property. Why, therefore,
should they be exempt from the duty ? They did
now pay legacy duty, Mr. Gladstone having, but
not without considerable difficulty and much oppo-
sition, carried a bill for that purpose. He proposed
that not only those appropriated tithes, but corpo-
rate property, the property of universities, deans,
and chapters, and bishoprics—exclusive of the
bishop's income—should be subject, like other pro-
perty, to these charges. -He had brought this
question forward several times, but he could only
get 64 members to vote for it last session, and he
was almost surprised that he got so many.
Having been one of those who visited Cherbourg,
they would expect him to say something of what
he saw there. Well, he saw the whole concern
—(a laugh)—about which so much had been said
and talked in this country. Cherbourg was no
doubt a place wonderfully fortified, but what had
we to do with that ? Wu did not want to
attack Cherbourg. All that was required was to
protect our own coasts, and to provide for our own
safety, for which he was as desirous as any man
could be. (Hear, hear.) He looked at all that was
to be seen at Cherbourg, but saw nothing to be
afraid of. But the partisans and hangers-on of
• Government were trying to frighten the people
about Cherbourg, as if the great batteries there
could be floated and sent against this country. But
the object of those persons was to put their hands
in the pockets of the people. Why, we had at
Portland, immediately opposite Cherbourg and
aimost in sight, a harbour that would hold all the
ships of war in our navy, which might be collected
there ready to destroy any force that could come
from Cherbourg. The great works were still going
on at Portland, and it was about to be fortified,
People connected with the army and navy said that
our coasts were defenceless, and that our military
forces were insufficient. Why, there were 59,390
sailors and marines voted last year—the largest
force we ever maintained in time of peace. For
several years after the French war our force was
not half that amount. If this force was properly
applied no power or powers could approach our
shores. They would perhaps be surprised to learn
that the House of Commons voted last session for
the regular army, militia, enrolled pensioners,
dockyard battalions, and yeomanry cavalry,
220,000 men ; then there were 12,000 Irish police,
all picked men and trained like soldiers—thus we
had a force of 232,000 for the defence of Great
Britain and Ireland. Besides this there were
32,000 men for the colonies and 92,000 men voted
expressly for India. With such a force what had
we to fear ? He did not know how many of this
mighty army were enlisted, but, with regard to the
navy, they had been told by the First Lord of the
Admiralty that the full number was completed and
something more. Now a word or two upon the
promised Reform Bill. (Cheers.) He had no great
faith that the present Government would intro-
duce any bill worth accepting ; but he was willing
to see what they would propose, and support
that which was good in their measure, while
he would oppose that which he thought in-
jurious. He apprehended that they would
enlarge the franc ise—that would be good. Then
they would no doubt abolish some of ' the small
boroughs. But it was to be feared that they Would
give to the counties the members they took from
those boroughs, and would form other small
boroughs into county electoral distticts. If that
was the Reform Bill of the government, they ought
to oppose it, for they would be worse off than they
were now. The seven constituencies of the metro-
polis returned sixteen members to Parliament,
exclusive of Greenwich. These were returned by
a larger body of electors than 285 members returned
by 194 other constituencies. Was not this
monstrous ? (Hear, hear.) If they added Man-
chester, Liverpool, and Glasgow, they would have
186,000 voters returning 22 members for the 10
constituencies, whereas there were 216 constitu-
encies with 180,000 electors, returning 329 members,
or a majority in the House of Commons. Look at
this effect. The laws which govern the 28,000,000
people of this country might thus be made by the
representatives of the 180,000 electors, seeing that
if they voted together they would form a majority
of the whole house. Was this a state of things that
ought to be allowed to rest? Some people talked
of equalising the constituencies, but he did not ex-
pect they would be able to do that. They must
endeavour to approximate as near to equality as
they could. To apportion the members equally to
the constituencies they ought to have 70 members
for the metropolle, yfith regard to the reduction

Mr. WILLIAMS explained if the house or dwell-
ing was worth £lO a year, a formal demand to be
rated might be made, and the tenant would, the
rates- being duly paid,--htrve the right of votior,. But
there was some little difficulty in the way which in
the new Reform Bill he hoped would be remedied.
An Elector thought Mr. Williams, instead of
acquiescing in the striking of 23,000 men off the
effective lists of the' army, to be thrown upon the
parish rates, ought-to have exercised -his' influence
to reduce public salaries, so that those poor meh
might have been retained in the service. (Hear.)
Mr. WILLIAMS denied-that any_men-hut-been
reduced this year.
Another Elector asked what course the hon.
member had taken in regard to Mr. Ayrton's bill
for the equalisation of the poor rates.- --
Mr. WILLIAMS—That bill was withdrawn before
it came to a vote. Had it gone to a division
he should have voted for it. (Hear, heir.), But A
better bill would be brought in next yettr, which
would have his support.
AN-EhEePoß—To-what extent- would-the hen.
member go in equalising-electoral districts? .
'Mr. WILLIAMS belonged to au association. the
committee of which met last week, and entrusted
Mr. 'Bright with the duty of drawing up a. Reform
Bill, which, though that lion. gentleman was nqt
fettered as to details, would generally embrace the
principles for which that society contended, viz:,
vote by ballot, triennial-Parliaments, .a more elm'
division of electoral districts and £5 occupation
franchise. With-such a Reform Bill he should have
no fear of the widest admission of the people to
electoral rights.
The usual rote of confidence in the hon. mernbei•
was then prOposed and carried by acclamation, and
after a vote of thanks to the chairman the meeting
separated. .