The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-13 00:00:00

r first question he asked. on assuming. office was, what appeal to my own personal position. In consequence of
hence tip to the period when the late Government re.
tired. (Hear, hear.) had been donebyhispredecessors in regard to this report. the forms in making out the patents of the new Board
Mr. MILNES suggested that the case which hacqbeen iHe learned that Lord Panmure,. immediately on receiv- of Admiralty the present Board did not commence their
ing the draft report, had. appointed four committees to sittings until Tuesday last, and it would be idle to sup-
laid before the late law officers of the Crown, together
with their opinion, should also be presented to the house. consider the different points referred to. He was autho- pose that any Board of Admiralty could in three days
rized on the-part of the Government to state that they make themselves masters of all the complicated details
iB sot
fi f
os r•
e their
th the
(Hear.) M
theam, to
jir. S. FITZGERALD said the right hon. gentlemen would not hesitate to call on the house to vote such ofrettheensdeinestitmoadteelsivienrsoucihnioansmoanonner
(Air. Gladstone) uttered nothing but the truth when he sums as necessarywereeeg p
to carry out the improve-
months have expired
meats suggested a pfour we shall be prepared, upon
( r.) .
said that her Majesty's Government had no reason whaw
The motion that the house at its rising do adjourn to our own roeusgphotnstiohibliet.y,
Butto sintamteakwinhgattwhies those
any papers which would give any information to
ever on their own account to decline the production of
Monday was then agreed to.
NAVY ESTIMATES. wish to guard myself against two possible misapprehen-
the house. Since the present government came into sions. Ido not wish to be understood n
that
I at all i -
on the
office there were he thought but two papers which at all On the motion for going into Committee on the Navy
tend to hold out to the house that there is now
came under the notice of his department. One of these Estimates, part of the Government any fixed opinion that it is likely
mentioned that one of these men was discharged from Mr. W. WILLIAMS said a motion stood in his they will be able to propose any reduction in these esti-
prison and placed under the British Conseil ; the other
name for referring the army and navy estimates to a mates. (Hear.) I wish to reserveto the Government the
most unfettered discretion,then that they y ihnovuessetigatde
contained the instructions which were sent to 11r. Lyons,
and which were to guide him in his communications with select committee. As the right hon. gentleman bad
these estimates and ome downtoluathe
the Neapolitan government. These being the only two stated that it was only intended on the present occasion
state what they think ought to be done. I deem it
papers in which the present government were at all con- to move for certain sums on account, and had asked the equally due to the late Government to disavow the least
corned, any disinclination on their part to produce these house not to enter upon the general discussion, he would intention of implying, from having mentioned these
papers could not arise from any fear of the result to
not bring forward his motion at. this time. He wished figures, any censure on them, or of leading the house to
them from the production of these papers. The only suppose, from the limited experience I have as yet had,
objection that existed to the production of these papers to state, however, that the estimates for the army and
that there is the the least reason to think that either with
was that they would really put the house in possession navy were the largest that had ever been submitted to
regardz to the amount of force or the amount of votes
of uo information which they were not already possessed Parliament since the termination of the French war, with
the late Government have been negligent of the inte-
of. With regard to the production of the opinion of the
the exception of the two or three years of the Crimean rests of the country. With this brief statement, I beg
law officers of the crown, he believed that would be ,
to submit to the committee the first vote, which is, the
suite contrary to parliamentary usage. (Hear.) INGTON expressed a hop that some- number of men for the navy. The right hon. baronet
however, on looking over the papers he found there were
Is, waGr.ene(rHaelacro, hpeßari.
concluded by moving that 59,380 men and boys be ern
any which would give further information to the house, thing would be done to raise the compensation given to
Di ved in the sea and coastguard service for four months
Lei Majesty's government would be most willing to Pro- the staff officers for the deprivation of servants. The
ending the 31st July, including 15,000 Royal Marines.
duce them. (Hear.) sum of is. a-day in England and is. 6d. in the colonies Sir C. NAPIER was happy to find that the late Go-
Lord 3. RUSSELL regretted that the answer of the
was too little for the labour necessary to take care of the vernment had at last come to their senses, and increased
how. gentleman was so unsatisfactory. (Hear.) The the number of men in the navy, for he could assure the
question was one which could not then be fairly die- horses. He hoped the Secretary for War would take
house that last year Parliament had too much reduced
cussed, but they could discuss what were the means by the matter into consideration and raise the amount, and
that force. The suggestion which he made last year,
which they could obtain information to guide the judg also give the option of employing soldier servants when
civilians could not be found, and which was then pooh-poohed, to put the blockshipe
meet of the house. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman said, in an efficient state, was now to be adopted. He would
and said quite accurately and in accordance with
The house then went into Committee on the Navy suggest that somechange relative to the coast volunteers
precedent, that it was not usual to produce the opinion
was desirable. There was a distinction between them
of the law officers of the crown. But nothing was more Estimates.
and the Coastguard. The Coastguard were all seamen,
usual than to produce the letter of the Secretary of State Sir J. PAKINGTON said,—l rise to move the first
but the coast volunteers only entered their names to be
or the Under Secretary of State, which was generally a mere vote on the Navy Estimates, but before doing so I beg called on for temporary service, and were not fit to man
echo of the opinion of the law officers. There were two
to express my acknowledgments to the hon. member the British navy. He regretted to see by the papers
important questions involved in this matter. One was
for Lambeth for the courteous manner in which he that the house and the country were told we could
as to the capture of the Cagliari, whether it was made in
Neapolitan waters or on the high seas, and the other as has waived the motion of which he had given blockade an enemy's ports in the course of a week. It
to threStreatment of the prisoners. As to the first of notice, and which be had a perfect right to bring was all very well to talk in that way, but they might
depend upon it we could do nothing of the sort
these questions, the hon. gentleman informed them that forward. I hope also that the urgency of the occa- When
ships were manned they must be disciplined, ;lid in his
in the opinion of the law officers whatever claim the Ilion will induce the honourable member for Dover (I.lr.
opinion coast volunteers were not fit for the service. Ha
Sardinian Government might found on the fact that the
Osborne) to waive the course which he indicated in his would also suggest the propriety of increasing the mein-
capture of the vessel took place on the high seas, and
speech he would take on going into Supply unless some , ber of marines from 15,000 to 20,000. There was great
not on the waters within the Neapolitan jurisdiction, the
statement was given of the policy of the Government. difficulty in getting proper soldiers, as was evident from
3 itish Government could found no claim on it. If the
The bon. gentleman has been of late years so little in the the miserable children of 15 or 16 years who were en-
opinion went to this, that the vessel was a Sardinian,
habit of addressing the house—(hear, and laughter)— listed and were to be seen daily in the streets. He did
and under that flag, the British Govt rnment could make
that he now seems to have forgotten what is the usual not know why, but the army was not so popular a ser-
vo claim on her, he (Lord J. Russell) fully assented ; but
mode of designating the members to whom he wishes to vice as the marines. The marines were much better
if the Sardinian Government had a claim to the vessel,
allude, and therefore I had some difficulty in making out men, and they could take the seaports, thereby relieving
and if it contained two British subjects who had been
who the gentlemen was to whom he referred a short time troops of the duty and being ready at once to go on
captured and detained in direct violation of the law of
no' (A laugh.) lam inclined to believe, however, board ship in the event of war, when their places could
nations, no one could persuade him that the British Go-
that he did me the honour to refer to myself, and to some be filled by the militia. Lord Panmure had said that ho
vernment ought not to support the Sardinian Govern -
observations which I made elsewhere. The hon.
meat in its demands, and bring the power, the resources, gen- had no objection to give up the seaports to the mail.ioe,
and the name of Great Brea nto the aid of the weaker tleman had little ground, I think, for making the com- if the House of Commons thought proper to increase the
plaint that the present Ministry had made no statement number. He would not support the hon. member for
state. (Hear.) With regard to the other question—the
treatment of the two prisoners—he must say that, even
whatever of their policy. That statement has been made Lambeth in his motion for a committee on the estimates,
supposing the capture to be lawful, the treatment of the most distinctly in another place, by the noble earl at the but he should rejoice to see an address to her Majesty
two erg nears went far beyond what was necessary for
head of the Government. A. very full statement has also voted, praying fora commission to inquire into the manage-
safe custody ; the time had been unnecessarily protracted,
been made by my right hon. friend the member for went of the navy. Until they gave up the system of in-
and their treatment had been unnecessarily harsh, severe,
Buckinghamshire. I availed myself of a similar oppor- creasing the number of ships without any cause in one
and cruel. Even an uric the Neapolitan Govern- likewise to make a statement, and other members year, and raying them off in the year following, it was
meat had a prima facpp
ie case for their imprisonment, it g
of the Government have done the shme. (Hear.) I really impossible they could have a thorough and I?.ficient 'levy.
was not justified in treating them in such a way as that think, therefore, that if my right hon. friend (Mr. Ships were only fitted out for three years, when they
Disraeli) had now given us a repetition ef what has been could just as well be fitted out for five years, and the
one had lost his health and the other had lost his reason.
so fully made known, the hon. member for Dover would waste of iaoney was not so much upon men and provisions
The right hon. gentleman had expressed confidence as to
have been the first to complain so great a waste of the as upon materials. The First Lord of the Admiralty had
the result of the trial ; he (Lord J. Russell) had no con •
time of the house. (Hear.) The state of public business 10 councillors—five at Somerset-house and five at the Ad.,
fidence in the justice ef their treatment before the trial
' renders it desirable we should have some grant of money miralty. Those gentlemen, whether from jealousy or some
nor in the justice of the court before which they were to
on account. The house has already been made aware of other cause, seldom agreed, and of the number were ro-
be brought. (Hear.) He knew perfectly well it was
the necessities for doing so, and I accordingly rise to move duced the work would be done a great deal better, and
net an unusual course for the Neapolitan government,
the first of a series of votes fur the navy. I have to state, at less expense. He would not throw any obstacles in the
when it found any spirit of independence or regard for
in the first place, that the votes on account with which I way of the estimates being voted ,• but, on the contrary,
law on the part of a judge, to change that judge, either
shall conclude are founded entirely on the estimates of the would do everything possible to keep the navy in proper
previous to or during the trial, and he would not be
late Government. My right hon. friend stated the rea- strength, because he did not think that affairs at the
surprised if the Government, wishing these men to be
son why it is essential that we should ask the house for present moment were in a state, to justify any negligence.
convicted, should find a judge not likely to do so, that
this vote immediately ; but I hope the house will bear in Mr. W. WILLIAMS thought the present Govern-
he should be changed to one more subservient.
mind that I have succeeded too recently to the arduous went were taking too long a time in requiring four
His noble friend, the late head of the Government, did
and important office which I hold, to be able to come for. months before introducing their own estimates. In
not defend the Neapolitan government ; and whatever
ward at once on the part of the Government with a die- allowing them to have this vote without opposition, he
course the new Government might think it necessary to
tinct and definite opinion with regard to the estimates wished it to be distinctly understood that when he came
adopt, he (Lord J. Russell) hoped they were not ready
of our predecessors for the maintenance of the navy. to propose to refer the estimate to a select committee he
to make an admission that they considered everything
(Hear, hear.) I am bound to admit that I have did not expect to be met by the argument that the house
dons by the Neapolitan government was in strict accord-
received every possible courtesy from the right hon. gen- bad already voted a third part of them. He had always
once with justice, and that it was necessary to enforce
tleman the member for Halifax (Sir C. Wood), my im- been an advocate for maintaining the efficiency of the
on them those principles of jestice whist& our Govern
mediate predecessor in office, and that my right hon. navy ; and the conduct of the men under Captain Sir W.
meat and other governments considered it due to them friend has given me every explanation that was necee- Peel showed they were capable of performing the moat
selves to maintain. He hoped that the hon. gentleman
nary to enable me to proceed with the duties the his glorious achievements. (Hear, hear.) Theexpenditurefer
opposite and the noble lord at the head of the Foreign-
charge of which I have undertaken. Bnt, notwithstand- the army and navy alone was 6,000,0001. more than when
office would lay on the table of the house all the papers
which it was possible to produce, including the despatch ing that assistance, if I were to state upon the present the present Government were last in office. The number
of Count Cavour and any from Sir J. Hudson in sup- occasien the policy of the Government, instead of fulfil- of officers had increased of late years out of all proportion
port of it. Before he eat down he wished to refer to ling the duty which it is incumbent upon me to discharge, with the number of men. For instance, in 1346 there were
the request made to him by the hon. member for North I should be guilty of an act of folly and presumption only 153 admirals, in 1851 there were 235, in 1857 316,
Warwickshire to put off the Oaths Bill, which was fixed which could not fell to deserve and to receive the cen- and in the present estimates there were 341 ; about an
for Wednesday. That was the only day he had, and he curs of the house, considering how elaborate and im- admiral and a half for every ship in commission. Oat
certainly should not postpone the committee. (Hear) portant those navy estimates. (Hear.) Undoubtedly, it of the 341 14 were employed in active service, and
The hon. gentleman might make his motion at any other would be in my power to come down to this house to half of them were employed as port admirals or super-
stage of the bill, but he certainly would bring it for- declare that we had adopted the estimates of the late intendents of dockyards. The China war could not
ward on Wednesday. Government for the whole year, and to shelter myself be any great cause of increased expense, for only
Mr. RIDLEY said that with regard to the produc- and the Government under the course which the late a few additional small steamers had been employed.
tion of the opinion of the law officers, be might remind Government adopted. But we do not think that this The City of Canton had been taken by one regimae f°l nd
course.the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. S. Fitzgerald) that would be either an advisable or proper course. Conei- , a few marines ;in fact the French claimed to have bad
when the China papers were laid on the table, the opi- daring the present state of public affairs and the demand the most important share in it. Looking to the result
nion of the Queen's Advocate was also given. upon the re.ouroes of the navy which the state of affairs which was obtained the estimate for materials was enor-
Mr. B. OSBORNE (who, on rising, was received with
in China and India has created—Considering, too, what mous ; there must be the grossest corruption or mis-
all parties in this house must admit, the necessity on management somewhere. He had received letters from
derisive cheers and laughter from all sides of the house) persons in the dockyards, in a position—whose names,
said he did not wish to stand between the house and the every ground of prudence and propriety that the navy at
business of the evening. He agreed with the right home and in our own ports should be maintained in an of course, he was not at liberty to disclose—to know all
hon. gentleman the member for Oxfordshire that until effective state, the house will think that the Government about these matters, which showed a disgraceful eye-
the papers were produced they were not in a state to
are only taking a proper course when we announce our tem of waste and an entire absence of all superintend-
discuss the question ; and he was far from blaming the intention to take votes on account for four months, ence. No less than 7,000,0001. had been voted fel-
present Government, but he must be allowed to express founded upon the estimates of the late Government. At stores and dockyard wages since the termination of the
kis surprise and regret that the two questions put by his the later period of the session I shall move the remain- French war, and not a single ship had been destroyed
ing estimatos, and I will then state the views of her Ma. in that period by an enemy. If the present First Lord
_
hon. friend the member for Richmond and the member .
for the King's County had not been treated with the jesty's Ministers, anti move those estimates upon the re would look well into this particular matter he would
courtesy vouchsafed to the hon. member for Bridport.
ponsibility of the existing Government. This is the render most essential service to the public. He was
'
He did not think it would have been at all unnatural course which we think it our duty to take, and which bound, in justice to the late First Lord to say that these
when a Government came into power, or rather into we are more inclined to follow on account of the very estimates were thoroughly intelligible, but he pitied the
office—(laughter)—under such peculiar circumstances, large estimates that we find were prepared by the late gallant Secretary for War who had to deal with the
if some account had been
Government. It wouldbeinconsisteet;with the announce- army estimates, for a greater mass of coefasiom he had
policy which they intended to ven to the house of pursue.the He believed such went I now make to go into details, bunl will state the never seen.
had always been the case, even when the head of the
leading points which justify the course which I propose to Sir C. WOOD thanked the hon. gentleman for the
Government happened to have a seat in another place ; take on the part ofehe government. We observe not unna. compliment—though he could not take to himself the
turally the difference between the amount of the navy credit for the undoubtedly clear and intelligible shape in
far any explanation of policy given them was not coasts turally
for 1858-9, prepared by the late Government, which the estimates bad been laid on the table. He
tutionally before this house. (Hear.) He was much
and the amount of the same estimates in 1852-3, when quite approved the course which the Government pro-
surprised to see the hon. gentleman resume his seat
my colleagues and myself were in office during the Go• posed to take with regard to the estimates. Of course
without giving any answer, even to the amiable language
vernment of Lord Derby. In the year 1852-3 the gross it was (pita impossible that the right bon gentleman
which he so much insisted on, to the questions of the
amount of the estimates for the service of the navy was opposite could have bad time to make himself acquainted
hon, members for Richmond and King's County. The
6,705,74 d/. I find that the gross amount of the navy with all the details of the estimates or even to form an
hon. gentleman had intimated his intention to call for a
estimates for 1853-9, including the packet service, is opinion on his own responsibility of what they ought to
large vote en credit and asked for the utmost forbear 10,128,6151., the difference between the two years being be. The estimates for the year ought certainly to be
since of the house. As an hon. member he (Mr. B.
Osborn) would give every assistance in carrying on 3,422,869 i., or in round figures not less than 50 per cent, brought f erward on the fell and clear responsibility
public business, but at the same time, when the hon. lam quite aware that there are many circumstances thy Government, and under the circumstances the of
y had
gentleman made such a request, he thought it would which explain this large difference between the navy done quite right in proposing only vote on account at
have been but respectful to the house, and still more to estimates of 1852.3 and those of 1858-9. a
In the first the, present moment. For the estimate-', as they
the country, if he had given some programme of his in- place the war with Russia led to an enormous increase at present stood, he held himself responsible, and
tention before he asked for money. He would not press of the navy estimates. lam bound next to refer to the when the estimates for the whole
the subject at that moment, as the hon. gentleman had wari with China, or I might rather call it our quarrel forward ho should be happy togive yearthe were brought
Governmentl
already spoken twice, bat b,sfore he asked for money he ''''ctri2 Commissionertheseest.l: eht, whichT has also led to a great all the aseieance is his power o pass the
would have time to make up his mind as to what his
~ini;ideatshee
great increamseaoefshsteamships,house will also bear in supposing that they were such as theknowlemd'eawwhls
future policy would be; as yet the house knew nothing
incurred in the (Lek arc's ite the great expenses he had acquired told him were necessary knowledge
the
wiseq,eence of that in- p
of it. They had just heard that the Government public service. He hoped, however that t'
and the recentYtrau f ofeney would be
crease,
to
he
Admiralty,eer the Coastguard service brought forward at the earliestpossible•
had succeeded to the inheritance of the noble lord's period alter
from the Customs
,ort
thises whichditi go in a great Easter. (Hear, hear.)
foreign policy with regard to Naples, but he did not
degree to accountlBt..o- enormous
If, erence betweenl Admiral WALCOI'T said that he had heard with
know how far the house would be satisfied with that.
the estimates of a. 3 andhowever,
185 - 9 Icon- great Boo satisfaction the proposal now made to augment by
(Hear, hear.) As far as he could see some painful [Ms. the table for
pare the estimates now upon
conceptions were likely to arise with Nesples. The right of 185- 8 here with
he d uthhe present number of seamen and boys, nor could
tho estimates for the present year i - ; ; again o t the ready acquiescence of the house, which had
hon. gentleman had taken credit for putting au end towhich I think imposes upon always been willingly I find a very large increase,
painful misconceptions, which, however, had existed in
his own fertile imagination, for until the' right hon. - me the duty of carefully investigating its causes. (Hear, country demanded a similar increase. (Hear, hear.) At
hear.) I will first take the difference in the number of this moment our force at sea was unworthy of our
pre-
tleman went on the hustings at Aylesbury he M geßn.
Osborne) was not aware of a misconceptions
( r.
men. The number of men voted fur the current year, tensions to be the first maritime Power in Europe.with regard to France. It wouldny be but becoming existing 1357-s,
was,—
officers, seamen, and boys for the fleet, Without doubt our docks and harbours presented an
the right hon, gentleman when he asked in 31,000; for surveying, store, and troop ships, 20,000 ; imposing array, and we had stages with gunboats • rn
jos.-
fora supply to
be prepared to give some programme for the Coastguard service, 8,700 ; making a total of ling each other, a magnificent fleet, comprising sailing
of what his intended
measures were. Until he did so the house ought not to 38,700 men. To these may be added 15,000 marines, and screw ships of unrivalled strength, capabilities and
grant one shilling. (Hear, hear.) It was his intention and the estimates submitted tot the house by the late speed ; yet we had been lately unable to furnish t;ans-
to use the utmost forbearance, and the most amiable Government this time twelvemonth amounted to s. ports for a few thousand troops without having recourse
language towards the government. He believed the right gross total of 53,700 men. At a lat r period of the to the merchant navy. It was only last year that he had
hen. gentleman who represented Buckinghamshire would, session, however, in the month of July, the late Go. recommended as indispensable the maintenance at sea of
if he had it his own way, be as good a reformer, and as vernment came down and proposed a supplementary not less than 12 sail of the line, fully manned and offi-
advanced a liberal as any man in the house. If he could estimate of 2,000 men, which made a gross total of cerod, in the highest state of efficiency and preparation,
only get rid of three or four of his colleagues, incladine 55,700 men for the year. In the estimates now on because it would afford the immediate means on the most
the head of the administration, he would be sure to 017- the table for 1858-8 the number of men is very con- sudden emergency of supplying twice that number of
. tain the support of the liberal party, but to do so he aiderably in increase of that estimate. The number ships for the service of the country, independently of
should considerably weed his own party. There was aof officers, seamen, and boys for the fleet is put down at frigates and smaller vessels. At a period when science
. right hon. gentleman (Sir J. Pakingtoo) sitting next to 35,000 ; for surveying, troop, and store ships the num- was making fresh advances, hitherto unexampled, and
the right hon. gentleman whom he was reported to have ber is the same as last year—namely, 2,000 ; but for other maritime Powers were strengthening their navies
converted to his opinions on the Jew Bill, and if he Coastguard service the number is increased from 5,700 in proportion, no caution could be too great in a timely
would, through him, give the house some assurance that to 7,330. The number of marines is the same, viz., consideration of the construction of our ships before they
15,000, for both years, but the general result of the were commenced. The position—one of the higieret
when he called on it for a grant of money on credit he
number of men proposed. by the late Government to be importance and responsibility—of the Surveyor of the
grttt be prepared to give a statement of the intentions I
I voted for next year is 59,330 men. The difference in Navy, demanding as it did the display ofgreatability,
. ehe government he II be re-
( r. Osborne) would p
. pared to listen and grant men between the original estimate of the two years and a judicious ex oinof pan wure the public re-
grant the money, but if that was
not done he woulda therefore stands thus :—Thera is an increase of 4,900 in quired that it should be accom • money,
feel it his
ourahle gentleman . duty, when the right hon-
the vote for officers, seamen, and boys for the fleet and Board of Admiralty, by which palsied by a seat at the
opportunity and autholity
attention' tori came down to ask fur a vote, to call "C d
an addition to the oastgnar of 1,680, being a gross would be afforded him to
the „rev,represent his opinions with
meat had succeed instances under which the govern-
increase of 5 680 men for next year as compared with freedom and cogency. The navy, from its peculiar cha-
t° place himself ored to office. He should be sorry
'estimatefor thecurrentmeter, required '- '
position. He felt thatthe right hon, gentleman in that the original
odo
July
the year. lf, however,
of rewards.' ater-seeing policy and a generous rust, ni
we add the men
.v voted difference betweenshould encourage those officers who
came into power
ender whens the right hon. gentlemanexhibited l•They
ears will be 3,630 men. lam bound to add zee in acquiring the knowledgeof •
such cir their profes-
difficult task for him to decidecristances it must be a , the two ye
tmoment this increase ofmen is, • sion and in the dischar eof its arduous
right hon. gentleman who sat
non his measures. The that at the present moment this increase of men is, in sion and in the discharge of its arduous duties, and merit
atituenta it was not hum eat next hini hid told his conS my opinion, absol
necessary—("Hear, hearl'n' should constitute the only elarimuoutes duties, and merit
atituents it was not humanly
oext. him had told his con- fromray
' nd I will show it to the in, insure fidelity in the seamen they must promotion,sho
Sir C. Napier)—and
ofshow a scrupul-
then gentlemen coming intoP
offset
for twelve or thir-and boys house
u adherence to every promise and discrimination with
this way :—Tbe total number men voted o
blinds. He (Nfr. Osborne) would bee° to
make up theirlibsr l• el. Economy and retrenchment
last year for the service of the navy, including the sup- s a ity in reward,
content if the right
Ilan. gentleman would
only tell them h ' elementary vote of July, amounted to 35,000. The be employed in careful forethought before incurring ex.
humanly possible he make up his 'w en it Was they were compatible with the Integ-
..sl r could - pease, and only as
h Po icy. If that was not done, be Should eels in commission by the return of last February was rity of the national defsnces. The navy of England
enllTlTHation with his right hon.
Ashton under-L friend the member for 35,915. So that the number of men in commissioned could never be reduced with impunity. Neither gunnery
_m,,,,,,,anuint.____,yne, who knew so well how to draw ships was 915 in excess of the number voted by Parlia- nor navigation was the acquirement of a few months,
find .tinl klaughter) —and see ment during the year. The marines, however, fell short and the landsman was only by long experierce ripened
make e eseegi, f f . whether he could not
that id o oreing the
lord in another The atrright,tt, hon. gentleman to' of the number voted by Parliament, and the general re- into the practical seaman. If the fleet were undermanned
the house or th-eir' c,,ita statement made by a noble suit is that, including seamen and marines, the number there would be risk, and if there were ignorance of their
The subject then °tteti,Y„,* ea and ought not to satisfy of men last February exceeded by 860 the number voted profession on the part of the officers there might be a
b •
SANITARY s-f a,--i-i,... rg., y Parliament during the year. If, however, the nurn- sad reverse. Here ho might remind the committee that
bars were •.. r
Mr. LAURIE, who had ol;;:n-raz ARMY, raised ea the fall complement, so that all the in order to fit out the Baltic fleet they had to strip the
ships in
t,l call the attention of the houitenCeZh'it his intention. the commission were fully manned, in addition to Coattguard service of men, and when they bad turned
commissioners on the sanitary atAtee.oFZia,„"P"t of he I,s&rerneeennt excess
hof 860 men, we should still require the landsmen into good iailsrs they turned them adrift
Gaily to the portion that refers to the Fooi-oThY, espe_ \ hors voted, inn shoeing
a total excess, above the men and on the Herds at Portsmouth, Plymouth, and Chatham,
Wed in the metropolis, said that nicer he haZh' et"r- I e,timat,..__
the
.a7is of 2,216. (Hear.) Well, sir, the to carry their energy, their zeal, and their vigour, it
report lately presented he had visited po,to),:,,,PP:4lt:Li:t \ fl.oorren,,t yeaurhotybalne I_2, :ec
ep
Rasr
(e_ df by the late Government might be, into the service of any other nation which
for himself. He found 20 men hue. now i! these eetiouhte,e.„.., only 2,000 men there- would find them employment. We wanted, not ships,
Barracks to judge...Lod be agreed to, a
room. The air was so vitiated "‘1:"°"lea13'1°11 we
and if the ships bat the living hearts of oak—the
gallant tars, to quicken
dleal to
in a small _ ~ ‘2l,q „set., " foil twinned
beat a retreat. He was, however, esevernmeee fat 71,7: .th.r, the 'P we should still the mighty mass ; but poor Jack was disregarded when
that he was glad to nestimates of the f
late he was not wanted, and he was di-couraged when they
was far preferable to others. lie 1 the
requirementsmea r,ot . this
or tu,:iar,:x"'' bu .to show that the should have bidden him hearty welcome in the name of
informed the room
t ' Since ort must attract i
convinced that the statemen sin p.
e into the ,
lof money proposed to i„„-,:-,:a. Witi,,eararaewhat short of England. (Hest., hear.) He warned them to be wise
he OM I mated expenditure of the -'l' 1 44
rt that theamount in .
~,__
the attention of the authorities..
tleman the I•e prone -,.._ -..- the ....• time and to show a more generous consideration, a
right lion. gen the packet ' •
ing - wiser
house he had learned that the ~E,, _ ... _B, wiser
th„, policy, and a more far-seeing system as regarded
Herbert) intended to bri ,
n" •the table ' '
estlmates on exacted th' • 'ht, r
member for Wiltshire (I.fr. S. He
would 1858 0,
6 L./ 10,128,615/ is very eeghs,n_ose total endnl::eiv.Y. Justice required imperatively one reform ;
forward a motion on the subject. He, therefore, . ing to, for .15,a,, __• ~ being a;' „x;,Y.:•raontit- tic., htwged the First Lord of the Admiralty's atten-
to express his ci n•of 051 I
resent 956, 2 . have mentioned these"" the In .wlatle he pressed
it. He alluded to the di-do hearten
not further trespass on the house than , • pr year .
Government figures, e" neeresse,
Homed to stand in ,to show that the present are only taking a ""3Pedby 1 h prevalent in the navy thatno ffi u -
o cer n
viction that no parsimony would be a
e when, under pressure of our pe ;4;
1...0., we —,. e..,r
e.,
w, Lfluence or unable +
any sum , o command official favour
reeseeg of
Th. ,utertaia a '
the way, but that they would cheerfully vote proper course
vote supply for four months si
that might be required to secure the comfort of the only ask the house to pot,
on
ti,,,,
,m
in,
Durableh.n eaasonable hope of attaining the
rnbl i
Government. I will once more N.,1,0 11,,t velthtt ambition —the -
soldiers. the estimates of the late ~•., coteuxt.
• At pr„eut it e re At of admiral
hi
D.
calptea_ was confined to those
Gen. PEEL could assure the hon. gentleman that the ' daring four years in war