The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-13 00:00:00

EVENING, APRIL 13,

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.--(YESTRADI.T.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
THE PASSPORT SYSTEM.
The Earl of MALMESBURY gave notice that on
Thursday he would lay ou the table some correspondence
relative to the passport system, and he would take the
opportunity of tusking a communication on the subject.
SCOTTISR UNIVERSITIES.
Lord CAMPBELL inquired whether the noble earl
opposite could give any information with respect to a
bill for the impr ',lenient of the Scottish Universities
The subject had been brought before the notice
of the Government previous to the recess, and
he wished to know whether it was the intention of
the Government to introduce a bill on the subject!
The Earl of DERBY was happy to say that his learned
friend the Lord Advocate had a bill on the subject in
the course of preparation, and would shortly introduce
it in the other house.
ACTON'S NATURALISATION.
On the motion of Lord REDESDALE, Acton's Natu-
ralisation Act Amendment Bill was read a third time
and passed.
TRANSFER OF ESTATES (SIMPLIFICATION
BILL.)
The report of amendments on this bill was brought up,
and receiv,-d.
Lord CRANWORTH objected to the first clause of
the bill. It would give no security; and he should, there-
fore, move that the bill he further amended by its omis-
sion.

Lord WENSLEYDALE agreed with his noble and
learned friend that the clause was unnecei-sary.
Lord ST. LEONARDS coniendsd that the clause
was absolutely necessary. His great object in bringing
in the bill was to lessen the expense of transferring estates,
the charges for which were enormous. The omission of
this clause would damage the efficiency of the measure
and tend to keep up the present evil. He would make
a term of 30 years sufficient to give a title good against
all the world, and a bill possessing such a provision he
hardly thou ,ht could be termed not worth having.
Lord ABINGER supported the bill, and said be was
irclined to rely on the authority and experience of Lnrd
St. Leonards, rather than on that of the noble lords
who oppose i the bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR al-o opposed the bill.
He ojected to the new principle of legislation which it
introduced. Six or seven of the claui,es of the bill de-
pended on the first, and tfn principle which they em-
bodied would be mischievou, and vexatious. The prin-
cple of limitation established by the 3 and 4 Wm. TV.
was a safe one—that actions must be brought within 20
years ,f the right accruing in possession. It was now
proposed that no right should be asserted within 20
years of the time when a conveyance was made for a
valuable con-ideration to a purchaser. This provision
might extend the limitation in certain cases. A person
might be in unlawfcal possession for 19 years ; he might
then convey the property, and the right claimant would
, still have 20 years to bring his action.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said that was remedied by a
subsequent clause.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the dance re-
ferred to would nut apply in all cases ; and the effect of
the bill in many instancss would be to extend the pre-
sent limitation. Anether objection to the bill wag, that
it plac d the remainder-man ent rely at the mercy of the
tenant-for life. The latter might make an illegal con-
veyance, and might survive the period within which it
could be disputed by the remainder-man. Those were
the leading provisions of the bill on which their lord-
ships' opinion was to he taken. He thought the old
principle the same one ; no ground had been shown for
disturbing it ; and the praposel alteration might be
most mischievous. He called on their lordships to re-
ject the clause.
Earl GREY hoped to see the conveyance of real pro-
perty put on a proper ground by the estab!ishruent of a
registry of title. (Hear, hear.) He thought the objec-
tions urged against the bill were such that no great Ai-
vantage would result from its adoption. Many of the
ablest jurists and p ilitical economists objected to the
power of tying up land by settlements for a great length
of time ; the principle had now been so reduced and
limited that it was no longer ohjectionable ; but
artificial rights of thin class ought not to be allowed to
interfere with practical improvement in les:Motion. He
was not prepared, on that ground, to reject the clause
proposed by the noble and learned lord.
Lord CAMPBELL proceeded to address their lord-
ships a second time, but he was received with loud cries
of " order" and "spoke."
Lord ST. LEONARDS said that, as he had only the
privilege of speaking once, it was hardly fair in the noble
and learned lord to make two speeches.
Lord CAMPBELL assured their lordships that his
remarks would be strictly in explanation. The noble
earl (Earl Grey), whom it bad given him great satisfac-
tion to hear on this occasion, bad quite misapprehended I
him.

Earl GREY—I beg your pardon. I did not allude
at all to anything you had said. (Loud laughter.)
Lora CAMPBELL proceeded to make some observa•
tiane, but the cries of " spoke" being renewed, he re-
sumed hie seat.
Lord CRANWORTH said that, with regard to the
other parts of the bill to which his motion was supposed
to apply, it was restricted to the first clause and to these
which depended upon it—in other words to the first
thirteen. (A. laugh.) It would be a great loss to the
public if, because their lord hips did not agree to the
proposal on the en' jest of limitation, they should he
deprived of other parts of the mea'ure. He thought that
some of the subsequent cl musea, and especially that which
made it penal to palm off a bad title, would he of great
benefit to the commui,ity.
Lord REDESDALE was prepared to support the
clauses of his noble friend, in order that they might be
referred to the select committee.
Lord ST. LEONARDS wanted their lordships to
affirm the principle cf altering trio time of the limitation ;
after that he should be quite willing to refer the amount
of the alteration to the Select committee.
The Earl of DERBY said the question appeared
rather to be at what point the period of the limitation
should commence ; and with the greatest deference to
his noble and lenrnea friend, he
should say that the
starting point ought. in jue..ice to be the period at which
the riidat of the successor accrued. He should, there-
fore, be very reluctantly compelled to vote against his
noblp friend's clause.
A d-vision was then called ; but Lord St. Leonard,
consented to strike out the clause.
The twelve clauses f. Hawing were also omitted.
LAW OF PROPERTY AMENDMENT BILL.
On the rnoti.,n of L rd ST. LEONARDB the order for
the committal of this bill was discharged.
Their lordships rose at a quarter before seven.
HOU

SP OF COMNIONS.--(YESTERDAY.)
The Srzeluta took the chacr at 4 o'clock.
EW MEMBRS
The Right Hoe. STUART WORTLEY t Eook. the oaths and
his_seat for Buteshire.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
—Dundalk and Enniskillen Rail.vay, Midland Great
Western Railway of Ireland.
The Middlesborough Water Bill was read a second
time.

THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA.
Mr. TURNER presented the petition agreed to by
the Manchester Chamber of Commerce relative to the
two India Bill 4 now before Parliament.
TELEGRAPEIIC COMMUNICATION BETWEEN

CORFU AND ALEXANDRIA.
Mr. CRAWFORD gave notica that he should to-
morrow put a cpestion to the Chancellor cf the Ex-
chequer with reference to the estabiishment of telegra-
phic communication between Corfu and Alexandria.
(Hear, hear.)

THE WESTERN BANK OF SCOTLAND.
Mr. BRADY gave notice that on Friday text he
should 0%11 the attention of the house to the circum-
stances connected with the failure of the Western Bank
of Scotland.

TUB CAGLIA RT.
Mr. HEADLAM asked the Chancellor of the Ex-
eheqner when the opinion of the law officers of the Crown
relative to the Cagliari would be laid before the house
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that, in con,equence of the receipt of very important
papers on Saturday in reference to the question, he was
unable then to give the information required. The
papers bad been submitted to the law officers of the
Crown, and he hoped to be able in a day or two to give
the requi,ite information.
THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT.
The CHANCELLOR of the EX.CHEQI.-; ER ,•aid it
was of the utmost importance that no unnecessary
delay should take place in making the financial
statement. (Elear, hear.) At pro 3 ent the only
votes taken were on account, and he was afraid
voteson account in supply were hardly sufficient for going
into a committee of ways and means. If hie right hon.
friend made
progress to-night and Friday with re-
gard to the great services he should propose to
make the financi statement on this day
week. He had fixed the second reading of the East
India Government Bill for Monday
but if he made
the financial statement on that. day he should take
care to provide for the second reading of the East India
Bill on the earliest day possible.
_(Near, hear.)

BANDS OF REGIMENTS,
Mr. LAURIE asked the Secretary for War whether
some arrangements might not be made to relieve officers
of the army from the expense cf maintaining the bands
of their several regiment,/
General PEEL said he intended to bring the subject
under the consideration of the Government. He con-
sidered it a grievance that regimental officers should be
taxed for maintaining tho.-e bands.
Ills Royal High•
miss the commander-in-chief was anxious to reduce regi-
mental officers t xpeases, and he (Gen. Peel) should be
happy to aq,iet him. (Hear, hear.)
SCOTCISU UNIVERSITY REFORM.
Colonel SYKES asked the Lord Advocate when the
Report of the Committee on the Aberdeen Universi-
ties would b 3 laid upon the table of the house ; whether
be had a bill upon the tAilj,-.ct in preparation ; and whe-
ther he intended to bring ill any general measure on the
subject of Scottish University Reform
The LORD-ADVOCATE said he was engaged in
Preparing a measure relative to Scottish University
Reform. The report of the committee on the Aberdeen
University Bill had not been received.
THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA.

On bringing up the report of the committee of supply.
Lord J. RUSSELL maid—l rise, sir, with consi-
derable doubt and hesitation to address the house on
Nubj t et f the deepest iutereFt. The right hon. gentleman

the Chancellor of the Exchequer, before the Easter re-
cess, asked for leave to introduce a bill to provide for
the future government of India, by transferring the go-
vernment to her Majesty. At that time I did not think
it would be respectful to the right hon. gentleman, to the
government, or to the house, for me to state any very
decided opinion on the bill. It has since been publicly
canvassed, and a great many objections made to it.
(Hear.) These objections are very generally felt, and I
confess they appear to me to be sound, and I think that
the opinion expressed by the hon. member for Birming-
ham (Mr. Bright) when the bill was introduced, was
founded on substantial reason. I cannot bir conceive,
sir, that if this bill is now to be brought forward for a
!iecend reading, if all these objections are to be met, and
if every portion of the measure is to be sifted, it will give
rise to a most extensive discussion, and a discussion
which must be affected by party feelings moat injurious
to the settlement of the question. Sir, a most consider-
able questina in itself is the question of the government
n is one not only of the deepest interest, but
it is one in which we tread on as'ees -.Thiel hardly cover
smouldering fire. This being so, I think it most desirahie
that there should be some mode adopted by which the
house might arrive at a conclusion as to it; opinion on
the future government of India, without a debate of the
character to which I have just referred, and without
discussing the parts of the measure which are likely to
meet with objection. Sir, on ri ferrieg to what took
p'sce on former occasions I find that the fiat great
ch +nee since 1784 was that of 1813, by which the East
India Company was deprived of its monopoly, and a eye-
tem of monopoly and restriction changed into one of free
trade. On that occasion Lord Castlereagh intro.:laced into
this house, in committee of the whole house, a series of re-
eolutious on which a bill was to be founded. Lord Li•er-
pool, in the other house stated such a course had this ad-
vantage that all the mai', principles could be placed under
separate beads, and these heads fully and completely
discussed, the resolutions would then be submitted to the
House of Lords, and after the two bout es had agreed to
the general principles, a bill would he iutrodused. This
course involved a considerable discussion at the time,
but after the resolutions were once agreed to there was
very little discuoeion on the bill, and it passed that ses-
sion. No w, sir, there are three ways in which people
view this question. Some wi-h to reconstitute under
another name the East India Directorate, and would
give the power of initiating to another body—they would
change the name but retaiu the substance ; another p'au
is that on which was founded the principle of the bill
ietreduced by my noble friend the late head of the Go-
vernment, viz., a miei,ter of the crown with a coencil ;
a third plan is that brought bcf ire the house to-night by
the petition from Manchester, that there should be a
secretary of state with subordinate officers, similar to the
other secretaries. Ido not now wish to discuss the
merits of any one of these plans ; but I do tnink that
if a few resceutiens were discussed in a committee of the
whole house we should be enabled to ascertain the opi-
nion of the house, whether it would wish to retain in
fact or in Lame the Etch India Company ; whether it
would wish to have a council, and if a ceuncil, how far
it was to be independent and how nominated ; or a secre-
tary of state without any council. There are some other
points, but not many of great importance, whether the
government in India itself is to be left in nearly the tame
state. It seems to me it would be most cenvenieet if
the government thinks that such a course should be
adoired. Is may lead to some loss of time at fiat, but it
wilt be a gain of time in the end if we consider those re-
s"lutions. if the government du not think fit to adoi.t
this course, I know it would be very presumptuous in
any individual member of Parliament to propose resolu-
tions ; but at the same time I feel so strongly the incon-
venience which must ensue from discussing tee most im-
porant alterations in committee on the bill, I cannot but
state that it appears to me the only way to evade this
evil and obtain a discussion in the house free from party
feelings, would be to Owe before the house, in tee
form of resolution, the chief points to be decided. I
must say we would be placed in great difficulty in dis-
cussing in committee points ef substantial importance,
mixed up with points of inferior and subordinate import-
ance, and pith the particular wording of every clause
which was intended to carry the law into effect. Ido
not know what the Government may thick of this sug-
gestion, but I could not forbear from euggesting this
ceuree to the house ; is appeared to me so loug ago as
last December that this was the course which ought to
be adopted. Neither of the plans which have been pro-
posed may be acceptable to the house without alteration,
and I therefore venture to make this suggestion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir,
the proposition which the noble lord has just made, it
must be obvious to every hon. member, is one which
would afford a most convenient mode of dealing with
the question of the Government of India. A different
course has been adopted by the Administration, but I
am quite ready to admit that the course now suggested
is better adapted for the convenient discussion of this
great measure. (Hear, hear.) I am also, sir, free to
admit that during the recess her Majesty's Government
have had this subject under their consideration, and
were not insensible to the convenience of such a course

The house will, however, no illect that in the first at-
tempt at legislation on this subject, the noble lord the
member for Tiverton proceeded by way of bill ; that
course was sanctioned by the house so far as permitting
the bill to be introduced. There was a general feeling
in the house that no unnecessary delay should take
place on the subject of legislation fir India. The pre-
sent administration adopted the same course, and
brought in a bill. The two hills are now in precisely
the same situation in the house. The principle of
neither flee been adopted, but permission has been
granted for their introduction, and both have been read
a first time. No doubt, sir, if we had originally pro-
ceeded by resolution, the discussion would have been
attended with much advantage, the task cf legislation
would have been facilitated, and there would have been
no great delay in the long run ; at present it is im-
possible not to be sensible that we have a pro-
spect of a lenethened and animated discussion, if not of
a party struggle, arid not that prospect which the coun-
try would look to for a satisfactory settlement of the
question. I should certainly have felt great difficulty,
after having myself proposed the bill, in asking the house
to consider these resolutions, but as the noble lord has
raised the question, I shall not ebriult from the task ; at
the same time, as the noble lord bee introduced this mat-
ter, I am sure every gentleman must feel that the reso-
lutions could not be in better handethan his. It the house,
therefore, should consider it ,xpedient that this course
shall be adopted, instead of coining to a single vote and
discussion on so many and such various questi, 714, we
shall have an opportunity of proceeding by resolution in
a committee frf the whole house, and obtaining their opi-
nions after full discussion. On the part of the Govern-
ment there will be no objection to such a course. The
her,s will feel that if we are to adopt this course, there
should be no unnecessary delay in doing so. The two
bills are now in precisely the same state ; but if we are
to decide in a committee iif the whole house what are to
be the principles on which the future government Of
India is to be framed, we should proceed without any
unnecessary delay to discuss them, whether the task of
introducing them falls to me (it it does I will no;, shrink
from thet ask) or whether they are to be prop, sed by
the noble lord who has suggested this course. No one
possesses more authority in this house than the noble
lord; no one has earned it by greater efforts, or more
richly deserved it. I must say, it would be most agree-
able to myself that the cobs I)rd should propose these
resolutions—(a laugh)—but 1 do not shrink from the re-
sponsibility of doing so. (Hear, hear.) On one paint we
are all agreed - that there should be no unnecessary de-
lay—and that the earliest day consistent with the pub-
lic service should be fixed for the discussien. It the
noble lord consents to propose these resolutions, it will
be our duty to facilitate him in bringing them forward.
It is of the greatest importance that the financial
statement should be made as soon as possible ; I
have fixed it for this day week ; but if the Friday
after, or that, day week, will be convenient for the
noble lord, I bare no objection. I trust, however, be
will allow the house to see the resolution before that.
Sir, I shall look with interest to the discussion. I believe
the course recommended oy the not le lord is one which
will condece to the public interest. (Hear.) We shall
have an opportunity of giving a formal and mature opi-
nion on many points with regard to which I cannot but
feel there is a great misconception in the puulic mind as
to the effect of rho proposal made by the present Go-
vernment. It is molt desirable that we should have an
ample and complete discussion on all the points involved
in the transfer of the government of India from the com-
pany to her Majesty, as to the character of the officer at
home to be entrusted with that office, as to the question
whether there should be a council or not, or if there is a
council what are to be its materials, whether it is to be
par !y e'retire, what is the mode of procedure it should
a(!opt. If we adopt the coura- Fooeested by the noble
lord, not only will the great question of toe gevtrament
of India be amply and completely discussed in this honee,
with all the advantage to be derived from the knowledge
and experience which many of our members possess,
hot it will bo discussed in a spirit totally devoid of any
party feeling, and we shall arrive at a conclusion which
will be satisfacomy to the country, and which will tend
to promote the safety, honour, and welfare of our sove-
reign and her dominions.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I should explain that when I
stated teat I should be ready, although it migtit be con-
sidered great presumption, to propose a resolution of this
subject, it was on the suppesiiion that the Government
might altogether decline to take that course ; but now
that the right hon. gentleman has said that be does not
shrink from it, I must say that it is a question which be-
longs properly to the Government. (Hear, hear, from
the opposition.)

Sir C. WOOD Paid ho was very glad t.) bear the last
few words of his noble friend, having en at the same
time as his noble friend to express his utter astonish-
ment that, however able his noble friend might te, er
ho wever competent bernight be, to deal with any question
which might be brought before tie house, a question
of that kind should be suffered to fall into the hands of a
private member—(Opposition cheers) —ai.d not 'be
brought forward on tav authority and re=poupibility of
Government (Cheers.) He did not concur in the notion
which had been prevalent of late, that the Goverpm, n
of the day should be called upon to undertake legislation
upon all kinds of petty and minor sus jests ; but every
one must admit that questions of primary importance
ought to be dealt with by Government, and never had
there been a question of greater importance than that
which related to the future administration of India. He
was surprised that upon such a question the Chancellor
of the Exchequer could have even indicated the possibi-
lity of the Government abdicating its functions. (Cheers.)
Ile had endeavoured at all times to avoid the introduc-
tion
of party questions in connection with Indian type t
and
wishing to
wotopuuld not yet
pursue the
evensam
imeinctourasteeoptig pi thoeppie
occasion—he oir
of
the bill proposed by the Government; but he must say