The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-19 00:00:00

different person from him who, through fear and dismay,
fled his colours, and untimely became mixed up with
the insurgents. He hoped that some general instruc-
tions had been issued for the guidance of those in
India. That something was required to be done in this
direction was plain from the very last telegram which
had reached England. From this it appeared that 1,200
men had been cut down by our troops, with the loss of
but three men on our part. It was clear, therefore, that
no resistance was made by the insurgents, and it was
unworthy of England and of the English soldier, that
such a state of things—little short of butchery—should
occur. He also found that one of the contingents had
been most harshly dealt with. These contingents, it
should be remembered, owed but a qualified allegiance to
this country. They were the soldiers of princes in al-
liance with us. Now in the case to which he referred 150
men of a contingent were huddled together shot and
bayoneted in a body, in the dusk of the evening. No
proper trial and calm inquiry appeared to have taken
place. Again, in many ;letters from India the killing of
sepoys was spoken of in the most iippant manner. It
was stated that they were hung up as soon as caught,
and if any natives harboured them they were themselves
hung up. He could not believe this, but he thought
that it ought to be publicly disavowed by the Govern.
ment, as otherwise an unjustidea would prevail through-
out the length and breadth of the continent. How diffe
rent to this was the course taken by Gen. Calton in Ca-
nada, shortly after the death of Gen. Wolfe. That gene-
ral had a due regard to the honour of the British name,
and he issued a manifesto holding out the hope of mercy
to those misguided wretches who had fled to the woods.
He did not say that the ca es of India and Canada were
parallel in all respects. He would, however, now come
to a case which was not widely different from the case of
America. He alluded to the annexation of Oude. In
that case intrigue was first tried; first one great person-
age and then another was sought after to be suborned.
Those attempts failed, and then the country was seized
by a coup d'etat. It was no doubt necessary now that
our position in Oade should be maintained, but we were
not justified in treating the natives of Oude as rebels,
and treating them as revolted soldiers. He said this be-
cause he saw in the Calcutta papers demands that Oude
should be made one great slaughter-house. (Hear,
hear.) He regretted to bear that cheer ; he had hoped
that no hop, member would be found to support such a
view. He had hoped that here at least some regard would
be shown to those who were fighting in behalf of a cast
down country. Let the hon. member who cheered re-
member what even the sepoys had gone through—let him
remember how often they had been tried and not found
wanting—let him consider whether he himself would
have pro►ed as firm as they under similar privations and
temptations, and let him not, until then, venture to cheer
the sentiment that without mercy—nay, without trial—
these men should be consigned to a bloody grave. And
in the instance of Oude, let the hen, member bear i❑
mind that it was the case of a people struggling for its
independence ; a people, therefore, to be treated as an
enemy, but not as revolted subjects. The hon. gentleman
concluded by saying that he hoped that stern, resolute
justice was done on these miscreants who had been guilty
of atroc tes, yet that moderation would be used towards
the great mass of less notorious offenders. With regard
to the papers for which he wished to move, he had
learned, by the courtesy of the Secretary to the Board of
Control, that those which related to Mann Singh might
be found, and would be produced. With regard to those
relating to the instructions to officers, there might per-
haps be a d.fficulty about them, and he would not press
for them ; but as regarded the third set of papers relat-
ing to Oude, he thought there might be some papers
which might be produced.
General THOMPSON seconded the motion.

Mr. H. J. BAILLIE was not surprised to see the
motion of the hon. gentleman the member for Rich
raond, or that he should have felt it his duty to submit
that motion to the house, but he had been somewhat
surprised that on the terms of that motion he should
on the present occasion have gone into a general dis-
cnseion of the origin and cause of the Indian mutiny,
and into the question of the annexation of Oude,
(Hear.) He (Mr. Baillie) ought to be the last person to
complain of this latter subject being brought before the
house, for not many weeks ago he had occupied,
he feared, a considerable time in dealing with
that question, and he could not trespass again on the
house by entering into it on the present occasion. The
hon. gentleman had commence I his speech by referring
to the excesses committed by the English soldiers in
India. It might be perfectly true, when first the hor-
rible atrocities which were committed at Cawnpore and
other stations were known, there was some feeling of
exasperation on the part of our soldiers manifested ; but
he (Hr. Baillie) believed that time had passed, and that
there were few persons who were not of the same opi-
nion as the hon, gentleman, and who did not think that
very little good would be gained by carrying out what
perhaps might be deemed the principle of stern justice.
The fact was, the offenders were so aumeroae that some
other mode of punishment than that hitherto adopted
must be devised, for it was impossible to treat all the
different classes of offenders in the same way. The hon.
gentleman had asked what the instructions were which
were sent out to the Indian Government in relation to
the carrying out of martial law. The lion. gentleman
was aware that the question of martial law was a very
delicate one ; and when it was resolved to establish mar-
tial law, the practice was to leave its execution to those
whose duty it was to carry it out. No special instruc-
tions had been sent out, nor was it the practice to send
out instructions of that nature to the Governor-General.
If the English officers had received any instructions on
this subject, it must Lave been from the Commander
in-Chief. The Commander-in-Chief, however, was aware
of the opinions of the Governor-General on this subject,
because the Governor-General and his council had issued
certain rules and instructions with regard to it The
hon. gentleman had read certain resolutions of the Go-
vernor-General in council, dated in Sept., 1857, which
laid down rules for the treatment of each class of offenders
some of which expressly referred to persons in the situa-
tion of the people of Oude. The Bth resolution was to
the effect that the Governor General was anxious that
no measures of severity should be carried to excess for
acts of rebellion committed by persons who were not
die ectly in arms against us. That applied to the people of
Onde. There were many other rules laid down which
showed what were the sentiments of the Governor-Ge-
neral in this matter, and it could not be supposed that
the Commander-in-Chief would not feel it to be his duty
to act in accordance with those sentiments ; and he (Mr.
Baillie) had little fear that any of the excesses to which
the hon. gentleman had referred would take place. No
doubt there were accounts in the newspapers of things
which had taken place which were too terrible to be be-
lieved, and he agreed with the hon, gentleman that they
must be exaggerations. The hon. gentleman had re-
ferred to Oude, and he (Nlr. Baillie) could not think
that the people of that country who were assembled
under the banners of their chiefs and fighting for
their independence could be placed in the same category
as mutinous Sepoys who had murdered their officers.
On that subject he had no doubt that proper instruc-
tions would be given. With respect to Mann Singh,
when he (Mr, Baillie) came into the house he was pre-
pared to say that he had no information to give ; but
since he came into the house some despatches had been
sent to him, in which be found some statements relating
to Maun Singh. They were to the effect that Maur,
Singh, at the commencement of the rebellion, declared
for the British Government, and took under protection
a number of women and officers ; but he (Mr. Baillie)
was afraid that afterwards he changed his opinion, and
marched at the head of a large force to Lncknow. Ans
information that was to be found with regard to him
would Le given. As to the other papers he had no infor-
mation to give, and he hoped the hon. gentleman would
withdraw those two portions of his motion, and the other
papers referred to would be granted.
Mr. W. VANSITTART hoped that the house would
not be led away by the opinion expressed by the hon.
gentleman opposite. In this country and in India very
different opinions were entertained. When an act was
passed in India to enable the government to brand the
mutineers, great alarm was felt, as it was thought that
it showed a disposition on the part of the government
to look to transportation only as a punishment. He
bad always thought that the punishment for mutiny
went beyond transportation, and surely the severest
punishment was required fur the outrages which had
been committed in India, where, as it regarded every
mutineer, and participator in the mutiny, it was effected
tat strict justice would be done. Another order of the
Government of India had uiven great dissatii.-fAction.
He alluded to the order that in the case of sepoys who
were on furlough who belonged to mutinous regi-
ments, on their return to head-quarters they were to be
paid and discharged. Another order also stated that any
Sepoys who could prove that they had taken no part in
the mutiny were to be received again into the ranks of
the army. In an Eegli.i mutiny, if a soldier did not do
his best to suppress it, he was guilty of felony. In his
opinion the course pursued by Lord Canning toward,
the committers and abettors of the crimes which hail
been committed, was too conciliatory and inadequate to
the occasion.

Mr. C. BUXTON said that no one who had considered
the events of the last few months in India would do any.
thing to discourage the men who had done their duty so
well, but he thought that an expression of opinion from
that house would strengthen the Indian government in
carrying out the manly and conciliatory policy of Lord
Canning. It would be difficult for him to keep his sub-
ordinates within bounds, and he needed some backing
up from Parliament. No doubt if we in England had
been in India, and bad seen what had been done there

—if we had seen our wives and little ones butchered—if
we had looked into the well at Cawnpore, we might
have been carried away by our feelings of indignation.
Still we, who were :n a position to reflect, ought nut to
be influenced by the excitement which was excusable in
them, and we ought to support Lord Canning, not in
excusing the guilty, but against those who confounded
the guilty with the guiltless. The frightful reports that
we had heard of the violation of wives under the eyes
of their husbands, and the torture of children under
the eyes of their mothers, had caused strong feelings of
indignation ; but those tales, it not wholly groundless,
Nere much exaggerated, and some of them were without
any foundation ; and Sir John Lawrence and others bad
so stated distinctly in their despatches. If so, those
RttaotuemhentA ought to have no weight in our minds ; for
ofl having g
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Yet it
Mr.
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mightMANGLES kaki that in his opinion
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ing with the subject. The
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his fellow-countrY :left ii, theid
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In a private iettrirZic't
Lord Canning, he to hl him lk
he had received from that
although he bad been charged with undue leniency by

Europeans in India, he feared that in _fature times it
imo irghhe tb a
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ea! d oflt hwi ma s tbheauta
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ose
opinionssufficient
that
he (tlr. Mangles) had on all occasions supported the Go-
Canning.geutl e
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tare
bon,
this qaestion forward had made excuses for the sepoys
for which they were not entitled. (Hear.) He had
i
spoken of the greased cartridgbs—which no doubt was
the match whioh fired the mine—as if they had been
issued to every regiment in the service. But the fact
was, that the greased cartridges had not been issued to a
..eegie regiment in the service as a regiment. It was
true, they had been issued in the Affghan and other
frontier districts for a long time, and still used without
remonstrance ; but with regard to the regiments of the
line, they had not been issued to a single regiment, but
only to the military schools in which the men were in-
structed in the use of the Minis rifle. He warned the
hon. gentleman who spoke last how lie attached credit
to the Indian newspapers, for the very prints which had
attacked Lord Canning, and endeavoured to throw odium
upon him, had used similar exaggerAtions in the oppo-
site direction. With regard to the alleged mutilations
of women and children in India, it was said that there
were many cases of such a nature, but he confessed that
he had not been able to ascertain the existence of a
single authenticated case. He believed that in the ma-
jority of cases there was no proof whatever of any such
outrage having been committed. There might have
been isolated cases of the sort, but he believed the state-
ment with regard to the wholesale mutilations was
devoid of truth. He had seen Captain Low, an aide-
de-camp of General Barnard, who had been present
at the siege of Delhi, and all through the campaign, and
that gentleman had assured him that, when the British
forces took possession of the city, every endeavour was
made to ascertain the truth of these reports, but that
they had not been able to obtain any evidence to show
that they were founded on truth. (Hear, hear.) Then
there was the case of Miss Jennings, who was said to
have been put to death after having suffered many in-
dignities ; but, from all they had been able to ascertain,
there was no reason to believe that she had been put to
death in the way described. Most hon. gentlemen had
read the letters which appeared in the public papers.
The writer of those communications had been at Delhi
when he heard of the massacre at Cawnpore, and has-
tened there immediately ; but they were afterwards said
to have been committed at Delhi. Now, with regard
to the inscriptions found on the walls of the prison where
the unfortunate people were confined at Cawnpore, he
was assured by an officer who was one of the first who
entered the town that they were not there when he saw
it. They must then have been written by some one who
wished to record scenes of horror, but who certainly had
exaggerated them. The hon. gentleman who brought
forward the motion spoke of the mutiny as being general,
And of its being occasioned by the abhorred dominion of
the East India Company. But that was not so, for the
great body of the people remained faithful. At present no
doubt they had nat a single magistrate in the whole of the
territory of Oude, nor did they occupy a single inch of
ground except the Alumbagh where Sir J. Outram was sta-
tioned, but that did not prove that the entire population
was opposed to British rule. He did not believe that the
people of India knew or understood what patriotism
was as understood in England ; and it was a most re-
markable fact that while ancient Greece and Rome, and
modern Europe in more recent times, made the greatest
xertions to obtain a popular Government or monarchy,
in Asia it was always a succession of despotic Govern.
ments. The only change which occurred among them
was, that one tyrannical Government was pulled down
and another set up in its place. He believed, therefore,
that the annexation of Oude had nothing whatever to do
with the mutiny, for the people there abselutely knew
nothing of what could be termed in this country a
national cause. It was said that 50,000 or 100,000 men
were now assembled at Lucknow, but it must be recol-
lected that the population of dude amounted to five
millions, and that the force thus congregated, taking it
at its highest figure was composed entirely of disbanded
soldiers and retainers of the Rajah's. He believed that
the measures taken with regard to Oude were wise and
just ; that those whom they affected were not the real
proprietors of the soil, and that the people generally were
much benefited by the changes made on the occasion.
For his own part he had no objection whatever to the
production of the papers called for, because he believed
the moderation, humanity, and right feeling displayed
by Lord Canning, who he hoped would remain at the
head of the Government of India, was an answer to the
charges made of indiscriminate slaughter and cruelty.
He believed that during his administration justice
would be tempered with mercy, and that Lord Canning
was not the man to countenance or permit the atrocities
which had been referred to during the debate.
Captain SCOTT observed that the family to whom he
referred had met with the fate he had described. A bro-
ther and sister had fled from Lucknow into Oude, where
the brother was blown from a gun, and he feared the
sister was reserved for a worse fate.

Mr. ADAMS regretted that throughout the discussion
there was not more of justice dealt out to those officers
who had been engaged in suppressing the mutiny: (Hear,
hear.) The hon. member for Richmond alluded to a
case where 300 natives lost their lives, and only one
European ; and to another where 250 were destroyed
with a similar loss. But surely that did not show indis-
criminate slaughter. (Hear.) It evinced great military
strategy and skill ; and surely a British army would not
be justified in allowing these rebels to get to a safe dis-
tance, and then return to attack them with greater force.
(Hear.) When mercy was asked for rebels, they ought
❑ot to forget that justice was done to their o An country-
men. (Hear.)

Colonel SYKES said that no doubt justice might be
done, but, as he had formerly stated, it must be justice
with discriminating mercy. The truth was, no greased
cartridges had been issued to the troops, but, unluckily,
an alteration had taken place, and a new paper was used.
The effect of that was, that although the troops which
first mutinied knew they were not greased cartridges, yet
they entreated-the authorities that they might not be
campelled to use them, because their comrades elsewhere
would not believe otherwise than that they were greased
cartridges, and they would be subjected to unpleasant c?n-
seqnences as the result. As to the natives of India having
been subj mted to despotism at all times, the history of
that country would prove the reverse.
Mr. O'BRIEN thought that all they did in India they
should temper justice with mercy, and not wage an
exterminating war. When the natives were again
humble it was a statesmanlike view to disabuse their
minds of the idea that they intended to take vengeance
upon them. (Hear, hear.)
Sir H. RAWLINSON thought they were indebted
to the hon. member for bringing this question before the
house, as the opinions it would elicit would have great
effect in India. Some of the military punishments were
more severe than was necessary. The hou,e, indeed,
should recollect that for ten months, and after fifty
different combats, there was not a prisoner of war in
their hands. That was a grave fast, and the inference
they must draw from it was that quarter was not given,
and he believed that such was the understanding in the
army. He dial not bring any chasge against the troops,
but the extreme severities exercised arose from the state
of feeling in that country which being re-echoed from
this country had produced these severities. This dis-
cussion would produce a benefieial influence, and he
trusted that after this debate the proceeding of giving
no quarter would find no favour in their sight. The
practice was not only unchristian but impolitic. English-
men were naturally brave, and brave men did not
naturally delight in blood and cruelty. They could not
govern India without native assistanco, and to obtain
that they should nee every means of conciliation in thea
power:

- Mr. RICH, in reply, said he bore testimony to the
noble conduct of the troops in India. He rejoiced at the
result of this discussion, and at the declaration elicited
from Government that due discrimination would be used
in the infliction of punishment. They were told there
were no papers in this country such as he had moved
for. He therefore would withdraw that portion of the
motion, and he hoped that in regrard to the other papers
they would have them in die course. In that hope he
woukl withdraw the motion.
The motion was then withdrawn.
GALWAY FREEMEN DISFRANCHISEMENT.
Mr. G. CLIVE moved for leave to bring in a bill to
disfranchise the freemee of the county of the town of
Galway. This proceeding the hon. member justified by
appealing to the evidence lately presented before the
Galway Election Commissioners, stowing the existence
of extensive corruption among the freemen class of the
constituency of that borough.
Sir T. BURKE seconded the motion, in the assur-
aaee that the election for Galway, in which he had
taken an active share, could be shown to be an Ex-
ceptional instance of purity. He vindicated especially
the course pursued by Lord Clanricarde on thatoccasion.
Lord LOVAINE approved of the introduction of the
measure.

Colonel FRENCH remarked on the injustice of de-
priving 489 electors of the franchise without proof of
any offence. At a future step he intended to offer
strenuous opposition to the bill.

Mr. MAGUIRE characterised the measure as a one-
sided proceeding. Far worse than the poor bribed
elector were the rich bribers, some of whom the hon.
member mentioned by name, and related incidents
touching their conduct at recent elections for Galway.
After some discussion, in which Mr. V. Seymour,
Mr. B. Hope, Mr. Ayrton, and Mr. Fitzgerald partici-
pated. •
Mr. WALPOLE said the question under discussion
was one of very great importance, but he strongly ad,. ieed
the house to agree to the introduction of the bill. What-
ever grave and serious questions the measure involved,
it would yet be the duty of the house not to strike
at the low whilst they avoided aiming at the high.
(Hear.) Any of their legislation which was not founded
upon equal justice to all ranks, would not be coneisteet
with the dignity of the house, nor with the satisfaction
of the country. The only matter which occurred to him
as important in the report to notice at present was,
that the mass of the electors iu Galway since the Re-
form Bill was ef Liberal politics, and the candidates at
elections were, with one single exception, also Liberal.
There were, therefore, no party considerations which
could affect the question before the house, and he could
nut see why the house should not immediately enter
upon the inquiry. The only doubts which he had as to
the propriety of the measure—whilst he strongly recom-
mended its introduction—were simply these. They were
proposing to disfranchise the innocent along with the
guilty. (Hear.) They had, upon the face of the report, a
distinct intimation that many of these electors were sol-
vent and respectable men for the class of life in which
they moved. Therefore it did not behove the house to
consider whether they should strike at those persons who
were _ a not guilty while they struck at those who were.
Ictic,nl.!, learnt by the statement of the hon. and gallant
uvo,,, ti3_lsP,?!ite that 128 freemen had since been placed
. nary g7,,f5.::„T.1,,,i.5, therefore,d b e
been
v produced. There
moat ewxetr:elopred,i.-
\
r a tittle of ,v-ur'ntc?) disfranchisedi those against wl,ons not