The Sun.
London, England, 1867-02-06 00:00:00

real question—viz., the amount of franchise—whether
£7, or £6. That was the way in which they evaded deal-
ing with the bill on its merits. They endeavoured to defeat
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those who had to meet it should know what that mo-
tion was, that step was taken without that notice and with-
out any knowledge on the part of the Government that any
motion was about to be made. That was the course adopted
by the Opposition. I call that an unfair and underhand
course. I say with regard to the bill of the late Govern-
ment it was not met on its merits, but an attempt was made
at a combination against it on the part of those who were
unable to combine on any other subject. If that was the
case, and I am well founded in the history of what took
place, the noble earl opposite had no occasion to say that
he "thanked God that he was not as other men," because
he was quite as bad as those "publicans" of 1859. (A
laugh.) With regard to this bill, which the noble earl is
to produce, I only trust that it will be introduced soon ;
that it will contain clear provisions; and that it will be
considered by the House of Commons. For my own part
I neither promise support, nor threaten opposition. If it
be a good bill, no doubt we shall be happy to see it carried.
(Hear, hear.) If it be a bad bill, with au incomplete or de-
lusive franchise, why then it would do just that to which
the noble earl objected, and truly objected. Above all, if
we think it leads to future agitation of a perilous character
it will be our duty to oppose it. If the House of Commons
pass a fair bill, and your lordships approve of it, giving a
great body of the artisans of this country that privilege
they are well fitted to exercise; if you impose on them
that duty which they are well fitted to perform—that of
exercising one of the most important functions which can be
exercised in a free country, in voting for representatives to
Parliament; in short for selecting men on whom the conduct,
power, faith, and freedom of this country depend for many
years, if you give them that advantage freely and fairly, and
to a proper extent, then you may hope to settle this question;
. but if you endeavour, by any tricks or shuffles, to cheat
them of that fair right, and endeavour to give them less than
that to which they are entitled, you will not succeed. Public
meetings have declared for manhood suffrage, but hardly
any one in either House of Parliament wishes for manhood
suffrage ; but if you give the working classes a fair pro-
portion of votes you may hope to settle this question for a
considerable time. But if you deal with it unfairly and ina-
dequately there can be no butter theme for agitation at the
general election which must tale place soon after the pass-
ing of that bill than that the present House of Commons
cheated the country, and that it was necessary to have a
new Reform Bill and new members who will do their duty
to their constituents more honestly than the members of
the present House of Commons. If I were an agitator I
should wish for nothing better than such a state of things.
(A laugh.) The noble earl having arrived at the conclu-
sion that there ought to be a large reform, will, I trust,
reduce the franchise to such an extent that his measure
will be accepted by the country. We all know very well
that there are different methods of reasoning, which affect
different minds. Some people are well convinced by the
inductive method. Others are more convinced by the me-
thod of deduction. Some like the algebraic, and others
the geometric method in order to arrive at the truth. But to
noble lords opposite there is no way which succeeds so well
as being in office. (A laugh.) The noble earl, in the speech
he made at Liverpool bathe course of the summer dwelt upon
the advantage arising from a change of Government from
time to time. I quite agree with him in what he said, but
there is a further advantage which he did not mention—
namely, that in coming into office he perceives the truth
of propositions to which be had been opposed for 15 years.
(A laugh.) I have only further to say that I trust the mea-
sure which the Government have announced with respect
to Ireland will have all the merit which should belong to
it, that it will have no injurious effects on the rights of pro-
perty, but will enable tenants to make improvements. If
the noble earl effects those objects he will confer a great
advantage on Ireland. The last time the noble earl was in
office he was fortunate in his selection of his Lord Lieu-
tenant. Lord Eglinton performed his duties in a manner
which satisfied all parties in Ireland and in this country—
(hear)—and I believe he is equally fortunate in his selec-
tion of the present Lord Lieutenant, who has conducted
himself in a manner to which no one can object. (Hear.) Of
course the duties of a Lord Lieutenant are those of adminis-
tration only. As the late Lord Wellesley said, the duty of
the Lord Lieutenant was to administer the law, not to alter
it. There are other questions of importance affecting Ireland
when we have got rid of reform, and which will deserve
your lordships' attention as much as any question can. My
noble friend whom I see near me, Lord Kimberley, made,
as Lord Lieutenant, many valuable suggestions on the sub-
ject of landlord and tenant, but nothing can be undertaken
on the subject of Ireland without the deepest consideration.
The best intentions are not enough; but I do trust that
measures for the amelioration of Ireland will be considered
with deliberation and carried. I thank your lordships for
your attention, and I have only now to add that I do not
consider it necessary on the present occasion to move any
amendment to the address. (Hear, hear.)

The Eati of DERBY—I trust that in addressing your

lordships I may be permitted to express my gratitude to

my noble friends behind me for the clear and distinct man-
ner in which they moved and seconded the Address.
(Cheers.) I should have hardly thought it possible to go
through the various topics of a Speech from the Throne
with so much clearness, discretion, and brevity as was done
by my noble friend who moved the Address. (Hear.)
There was not one topic of the Speech which he left un-
touched, and not one that he did not touch upon with per-
fect fairness and discretion. I must also express my satis-
faction that the noble earl who has just sat down has not
found any matter for comment, certainly not for objection,
in the Speech from the Throne. lam more satisfied with
the course which the noble earl has found it expedient to
pursue than oven with the noble earl's assurance that he
does not intend to move an amendment to the Address, be-
cause in his somewhat lengthened discourse he has not
confined himself, with one exception, to the various and
important topics of the Speech. The noble earl has entered
into an historical description of the progress and non-pro-
gress of Reform during the last 35 years, and the various
bills, discussions, and disputes which have taken place.
Now, I must say, at the outset, that I decline to follow the
noble earl through that portion of his speech. Her Ma-
jesty's Ministers have expressed their hop that the great
question of. Parliamentary Reform may moot with an early
and satisfactoty settlement ; they have announced their
intention to bring forward the question at a very early
period ; and I may at once relieve the noble lord's anxiety
as to any attempt at delay upon our part by saying that
npon the very earliest possible day—l believe as early as
Monday next—it is the intention of my right lion. friend
the Chaecellor of the Exchequer to lay before the House
of Commons the Government's proposal in reference to this
matterin detail. (Hear, hear.) But lam sure that there is
no hope of a satisfactory settlement of the question, if it be
taken up in the spirit and temper with which the noble
earl has chosen to approach it. (Cheers.) If when this
question is mooted wo are to commence bandying
recriminations between parties, and charging one another
with unfairness, inconsistency, double-dealing, and what
not, in connexion with the political history of the past 15
years or more, and instead of entering upon the subject
with the view of considering what is best to be done, then,
I say, there is no hope that the matter will be settled, an.
I shall deeply regret that her Majesty's Ministers have been
induced to bring forward a question which the event will
then have shown can lead only to angry discussions,
(Cheers.) My lords, if we do desire and hope for a satis-
factory settlement of this question, if we desire to see tho
representation of the country placed upon a sound basis, if
we desire to see a settlement of the question which I will
not say shall be final, but which shall render unnecessary
and improbable any further agitation upon the subject for
a very considerable time, then, I say, this object cannot be
attained by making the question one of party and political
strife for the purpose of obtaining office or .Parliamentaty
majorities. The question must be examined in a fair, deli-
berate, and dispassionate spirit ; we must be prepared to
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but I am speaking from the deepest convictions of my mind
when I say that there is no possible Government in this
country that can at the present time carry a Reform Bill.
The noble earl tried to do so last year, and he thought he
had a majority with him when ho laid down the principle
that no Government was required, and that no Govern-
nient was ever justified, in bringing forward a Reform Bill
unless it had a reasonable prospect of being able to carry it.
I do not go as far as the noble earl, but I say that in the pre-
sent state of parties no Government can hope to carry, by their
own separate and distinct exertions, such a Reform Bill as
would in their view be most desirable ; and I repeat that, if
this question is to be settled, it must be dealt with in a spirit
of mutual forbearance, and not by bandying recriminations.
(Limn) Although I cannot commend the noble earl for
accuracy in reference to the recapitulations of what to-•k
place in 1859 or 186 G, I will not follow him with regard to
one of the points he raised. I will not argue with him
touching his statement that from 1832 down to 1866 the
desire and working of the Conservative party was to keel)
the borough franchise from being reduced to £lO, or the
county franchise below £5O ; but I will remind him, with
regard to the county franchise, that iu 1859 the Govern-
ment of the day proposed a larger extension of the county
franchise than has been proposed since. It is undoubtefily
true that at that time a proposition was made to place the
county and borough franchise upon the seine footing, and
in that view of the matter the Government declined to re-
duce the borough franchise, while it proposed a large re-
duction of the county franchise. This principle, however,
was not sanctioned by the country or Parliament, and has
not been introduced since ; it has been universally admitted
that there should be a difference between the county and
borough la •
f • nchise (Earl Russell—" Hear.") Then I would
also remind the noble earl that he has nut since then
given us many opportunities of expressing our opinion
upon the subject of Reform, for from 1860 to 1866 the noble
earl had been perfectly satisfied to leave the whole question
at rest, and it was not until last year that he awakened
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