The Sun.
London, England, 1858-12-01 00:00:00

THE STATE OF SARAWAK:

A deputation, consisting of the following gentle-
men,—Mr. Crawford, M.P., Lord Goderich, M.P.,
Mr. Gregson, M.P., Mr. Horsfall, M.P., Mr. Ewart,
M.P., Mr. Drummond, M.P., Sir Dalrymple El-
phinstone, M.P., the Mayor of Manchester (Mr
Mackie), Mr. William Fairbairn, Mr. Thomas
Fairbairn, Mr. Pender, Mr. Ross, and Mr. Simpson,
from Manchester ; Mr. Charles Turner, Mr.
M'Micking, an&Mr. Adam Gladstone, from Liver-
pool ; Mr. Nicol, from Glasgow ; Mr. Ingrain Tra-
vers, Mr. Coulson, and Mr. John Smith, had an
interview with the Earl of Derby yesterday, in
reference to the propriety of retaining the State of
Sarawak under the protectorate of the English
Government.

Mr. CRAWFORD said that the gentlemen who had
asked for this interview formed a deputation which
might bp said very fairly to represent the state of
the public mind at the various places from which
they had come. They were gentlemen from Liver-
pool, Manchester, and Glasgow. There were also
some gentlemen from London, and Lord Goderich
to express his own private opinion upon the sub-
ject, and the sentiments of those whom he repre-
sented in Yorkshire. Mr. Drummond, who had
taken a warm interest in' Sir J. Brooke's private
and public career was also there, and some gentle-
men acquainted with the local trade of Borneo. He
would compress what he had to sal; into a very few
words. He need not refer in any detail to the
early part of Sir James Brooke's connection with
Borneo. The matters in connection with it were
well known, but he would remark, in passing, that
in every instance Sir J. Brooke's proceedings in Bor-
neo had met with her Majesty's approval, and spe-
cial favours were conferred upon him upon his
return to England after his first proceedings in
Borneo. He (Mr. Crawford) would come to the
beginning of last year, whence in consequence of
the outbreak in Canton a feeling_ was generated
and instigated among the Chinese m Sarawak, who
rose in opposition to Sir James Brooke's govern-
ment, when he had almost a lucky escape with
his life, but finally he succeeded in put-
ting, down the rebellion, and established his go-
vernment, upon as firm a basis as he could. There
were gentlemen there who would testify to the fact
that the energetic measures taken by Sir James
Brooke saved Singapore. The effect produced upon
Sir James Brookes mind was that unless he received
sonic degree of protection from this country it would
not be possible for him to carry on the government
of Sarawak as an independent State; that he must
fall into one of two courses—he must either aban-
don the settlement, to the great detriment of the
British name, or he must accept offers from other
foreign Powers. They knew perfectly well that if
Sir James Brooke were to leave Sarawak and he
did not surrender the territory to the Dutch, the
Dutch would themselves take it. They knew that
the American Government were not indisposed to
avail themselves of the opportunity of establishing
themselves in that quarter. And it was with a view
to convey to his Lordship the view taken in Eng-
land as to the position of British interests in Borneo
that the deputation had called upon him that day.
Although he had known Sir James Brooke per-
sonally for a great many years, and had a strong
sense of what he deserved at the hands of his coun-
trymen, he was prepared to argue this case not
upon private rights, but simply upon general and
public grounds, and with that view he would first
call attention to the general geographical position
of Sarawak : how it commanded the China seas ;
how, :should it fall into the hands of a foreign
power, the position of Sarawak might be made
detrimental to our commerce, particularly consi-
dering the great extent of trade that would take
place between this country and China. There was
another commercial consideration connected with
Sarawak which seemed to contain an element for
very serious consideration, and it was this :
We might reasonably hope to be within a short
time in possession of an electric telegraph as far as
Singapore. The laying it to Singapore was a
matter of no difficulty, and in taking that course
to India it would pass through a consecutive chain
of the British possessions, from Malacca to
Singapore. But how it was to be carried up the
China sea, we hardly knew, unless they had these
means of continuing our chain of telegraphic com-
munication: They looked to the necessity of tele-
graphic communication with China as paramount.
They saw from day to day that the telegraph was
superseding the post; how the post had become
subsidiary to the telegraph. They saw the great
advantage it had given to this country over a great
number of others to have the postal service of all
the world in its own hands, and not to be depen-
dent upon a foreign Power for its political and
commercial despatches. They thought there was
a great principle involved in regard to telegraphic
communications, and they looked upon the position
of Sarawak as being essential to the foundation of
our supremacy in that part of the world. They at-
tached importance to it in that respect. But there
was another consideration of still greater magnitude
—the immense mineral resources of that part of the
country. There was a gentleman present who left
Borneo not more than three months ago, who had
been employed for some time in working the coal
mines in Sir James Brooke's territory, and he would
- be able to tell now, or in any other form, the cha-
racter of the coals that were produced from the
collieries and the comparatively very cheap and
economic terms upon which coals of the best qua-
lity could be supplied at Singapore. When they
looked at the enormous quantity of coal sent out
annually to Singapore, when they saw that steam
was superseding as far as it could all other means
of conveyance by water, and that that coal can be
supplied in any quantity that may be desired from
Sir James Brooke's territory, they thought they
had upon that ground alone an ample and sufficient
case for coming and stating to his lordship, as the
head of her Majesty's Government, that they con-
sidered the retention and control over Sarawak to
be at this juncture a matter of paramount import-
ance. These were the principal commercial grounds
upon which he, for his part, entertained the view
he had endeavoured to express; but there were
others. A company had been established under the
name of the Borneo Company, which had commenced
and was now carrying on a large and beneficial trade
with Borneo. What the consequence would be of
that trade being lost by passing into the hands of the
Dutch was only too apparent. The exclusive
character of the Dutch trading with the East was
a matter of fact ; it was particularly adverted to in
the correspondence that passed in 1844 between
Lord Aberdeen and the representative of the Dutch
Government, the papers relative to which were pre-
sented to Parliament in 1854. The exclusive
character of that trading was the subject of a re-
monstrance on Lord Aberdeen's part, and even at
the present time the restrictive policy of the Dutch
had been pushed as far as it ever had been before,
and he had no hope of anything like a fair dealing
between us and the Dutch in those seas. They
therefore, upon those grounds maintained that every
interest in this country in a commercial sense was
dependent upon our allowing or not allowing
Sarawak to go into the hands of other parties, and
it would be a disparagement to us in the East if we
were to allow Sir James Brooke to retire from Sara-
wak and suffer the country to fall back into the
same state in which it was before Sir J. Brooke
went there. Those were the principal grounds,
taking the commercial view of the case; and he
ventured to ask his Lordship seriously to consider,
on the part of the Government, the proposals which
the deputation now made, which proposals were
two :—They asked, in the first instance, either to
take the State of Sarawak under-British protection
—that is, formally to say to the world that Sara-
wak is under the British Crown, who will resent
any attack made upon it ; or else, if that view
should for any reason not be an agreeable view to
the Government, that they would be prepared to
take a cession of the rights to the Crown. Sir
James Brooke's views were directed towards a pro-
tectorate ; he was in that condition of health which
would render it extremely doubtful whether he
would be ever able to return to Sarawak. He had
a nephew now in charge of the Government of
Sarawak, who was perfectly competent to
dis-
charge all the duties of the Government
there with credit to himself, and with the
same amount of
James Brookesatisfaction which Sir
himself had given. He believed
that he expressed the sentiments, not only of
b
Sir James Brooke,
the
of many gentlemen present,
when he said hempLublic would prefer seeing
name Sir James Brooke's
still connected with the
administration of affairs'in Sarawak, and that he
should be placed in a situation made secure by the
occasional visit of a British ship
war, or by any
other means which the word " of
protectorate" would
imply, and that he should be secured from yan
ex-
ternal attack, or from insurrection ammog his-
people, which would be the consequence, in a greato
degree, of the English protectorate being granted
to him. The deputation would not be, perhaps
unprepared to hear that political considerations '
may suggest themselves to some minds as to the
inexpediency of such a step being taken. As to the
power the British Government had of adopting
Sarawak, that question was set at rest by the de-
cided view that was taken byLord Aberdeen at the
time that the correspondence was passing between
himself and the Dutch Minister. They conceived
that the questions as to the position of the Dutch
and English interests were thoroughly considered
at the time ; the Dutch then stated the utmost of
their demands, and those demands were unequivo-
cally set aside hy.the English Government ; and
they were of opinion that the view which Lord
Aberdeen then took was not only a right view, but
entirely consistent with the policy and interests of

this country. In that view of the case they came
here to ask her Majesty's Government seriously to
give their consideration to this very important
question, and not to suffer the British character and
name in any way to be impeached by the with-
drawal of Sir James Brooke from Sarawak, and
much less that we should allow people who, in a
commercial sense, are entirely hostile to us, as the
Dutch are, to obtain possession of this state, when
the use which they would put it to would be to
damage and impede our interests in the East. He
believed he had now stated the views generally
entertained by the deputation present. There were
gentlemen there who would express the views of
those they represented from other parts of the
country, and there was a gentleman also present
who would be able to speak from his own personal
knowledge of the enormous resources in a mineral
point of view of the state of Sarawak.
Mr. TURNER said, that after the remarks made
by Mr. Crawford he scarcely thought it necessary
to do more than express the great importance at-
tached by the mercantile community of Liverpool
to this State. They were unanimously of opinion
that it was of vital consequence to their trade that

Sarawak should be maintained under the protection
of the British Government, so as to give to that
country those rights and privileges which are en-
joyed in this country ; and it was quite clear that
it should not be allowed to go to the Dutch, or any
other foreign country. It could not have escaped
his Lordship's notice that there was scarcely any
country in the world, in the Eastern seas, where
British merchants enjoyed that freedom of trade
which the British Government afford to foreign
merchants, and the greatest importance is attached
to the maintenance of this possession, which will
almost give the command of the China trade to

those who may hold it. His Lordship had already
heard from Mr. Crawford that there is a large field
of coal in the territory of Borneo, and held in his
hand a memorandum, made by an officer in the
Dutch navy, in which it appears that the Govern-

merit attach very great importance tothe coal fields
there. I was sent to a merchant in Liverpool. The
genticinan states that he cannot give his name be-
cause $t might compromise him with his Govern-
ment.

The Earl of DERBY—It is from an officer in the
Dutch navy ?
Mr. TURNER—Yes. The Dutch are extremely
_ _ _

jealous of any settlement in the Straits of Malacca-,
or anywhere in the Straits leading to China. They
have a large settlement close to Sarawak, and they
look with considerable anxiety to the decision of
her Majesty's Government on this point. There
had been paragraphs in foreign journals stAting
that his Lordship's Government have decided not
to encourage Sir James Brooke, and there was a
paragraph in the Singapore paper, which showed
that the Dutch Government are quite alive to the
desirability of increasing their possessions in Bor-
neo. All the merchants connected with the East

India trade and those best acquainted with the
country are of opinion that the retention in some
way or other by her Majesty's Government is
necessary, so as to secure the freedom of trade at
Sarawak, which can only be done either by a pro-
tectorate or some other mode which must be left to

her Majesty's Government. They think it of im-
portance not only that the trade with Borneo itself
should be protected, but also our anticipated trade
with China, the whole of which will pass through
that sea.

Mr. T. FAIRBAIRN said he appeared for another
large manufacturing district—Manchester. Very
soon after the return of Sir James Brooke from
Sarawak he was invited to Manchester, and a
petition to the Government was adopted and signed
by between eighty and ninety of the leading firms
of that city. At that time the India Bill to take
over the Indian territory to the Government was
not settled. The prayer of the petition was in
these words ,—" 1. To bring the future Govern-
ment of the Straits settlements under the direct
control of the Colonial Department of her Majesty's
Government. 2. To secure for the benefit of Bri-
tish commerce the manifold advantages, natural
and geographic, of the Sarawak country. 3. To
urge upon the Executive Government at once to
conclude arrangements with Sir James Brooke, the
present rajah of Sarawak, for the exercise of his
rights and powers either by making Sarawak at
once a British settlement, or by bringing it into
direct dependency upon the new Straits Govern-
ment." He might add, quite irrespective of the
benefit, that Sir James Brooke has conferred, on
civilisation by his conduct in Sarawak, by the sup-
pression of piracy, and the organisation of order,
his trade with his own political capital had been
very remarkable. At the time of Sir J. Brooke's
settlement the town of Sarawak was not worthy of
the name. It was a straggling village, with a tribe
of about 1,000 or 1,200 ; at the present time there
is an ordinary town of 25,000 inhabitants, courts of
justice, mosques, and other matters indicative of civi-
lisation. In 1847 the trade was very small; then the
exports to Singapore did not exceed in value

£i5,000 to £30,0013. In 1857, during the lapse of
ten years, the value of the exports has increased to
£300,000, and the interests involved are very con-
siderable. - There are close upon 100 English men
and women living under Sir James Brooke's Go-
vernment; but the British subjects amount to
between 300 and 400 people. If Sir James Brooke
retired from that country it cannot stand alone.
The interests involved both as regards the lives of
hundreds of fellow countrymen and the amount of
capital invested on the faith of the protection
thrown over Sir James Brooke during a portion of
his career is very serious. Ile was only speaking
the opinion of Manchester of those who are here.

The -majority of those who signed the petition,
were in favour not of a protectorate, but that it
should be ceded to the British Government.
The Earl of DERBY—There was some gentleman
who wished to speak of his own personal know-
ledge with regard to the resources of Sarawak.
Mr. CRAWFORD—It -vas Mr. Coulson. He has
been employed in working the coal mines in
Sarawak.

Mr. COULSON said he had examined the coal
mines of Borneo, and he would only speak of what
'he had seen. The extent of coalfield that he had
discovered there is 40 miles in length and 80 in
breadth, and very valuable coal it is, it being used
by the Peninsular and Oriental Company, and also
some other commercial steamers. They had also
opened a coal mine, which is at present at work.
The Earl of DERBY—Where is that coal mine ?
Mr. COULSON—It is in the dependency of Sara-
wak, about 20 miles from the sea.
The Earl of DERBY—Within the Rajah Brooke's
territory ?
Mr. (10ULSON—Yes, my lord.
The Earl of DERBY—Within what has been
ceded to him ?

Mr. COULSON—They have laid down a tramway
of three miles, and the coal mines are in full ope-
ration. At present two Dutch steamers have been
there and taken coals from the colliery. They
have pronounced it a very good steam coal, and he
knew of a good many seams of coal in the district
from four to five feet in thickness, which could be
produeed for about 6s. a ton, and from his expe-
rience of coal mines in this country he had no
hesitation in saying that it is equal to a great
many of our Durham coals.
The Earl of DERBY. —To what extent have
those mines been worked?

Mr. COULSON said they had been worked under
the mountain for about 300 yards, and when he
left Borneo there were about 500 tons of coal in
the same steamer for Singapore, which sold for
about 6 dollars a ton, which is equal to 30s. in
Singapore. The mines were driven at the foot of
a hill, without any machinery. In fact, the gene-
ral coal deposits in the Isle of Borneo were very
easy of access without any machinery.
The Earl of DERBY.—We have all been told a
great deal of the value- of coal in Labuan, and in
Sarawak itself; hitherto we have had no great
proofs by experience. It is now some time since
that territory has been occupied, and we have not
derived any advantage—so much so that the last
Government were on the point of giving up La-
buan, and abandoning it as a costly and useless
settlement.

Mr. COULSON.—There can be little doubt about

s value.
Mr. TURNER referred to a report written to the

Pacific Company from the managing director of
the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Company, re-
ferring to the subject of the Borneo coal.
Mr. FAIRBAIRN.—When you sold the coal at 6s.
a ton, do you know what the price of English coal
was at the same time ?

Mr. COULSON said he did not know what the
price was at the time ; the average price of Eng-
lish eoal in Singapore was about 355.
Mr. FAIRBAIRN.—The price of English coal in
Singapore has averaged between six and seven
dollars.

Mr. CouLsoN.—The Borneo coal is equal to any
thing we can get from India.
Mr. CRAWFORD.—Thero is another production of
Sarawak, which is antimony, which is used for
type, and, mixing up the two questions together,
when we look, at sonic future- day, to the removal
of the paper duty, that may be of importance.
Mr. TURNS';,.—Is not the Sarawak coal con-
sidered generally better than the Labuan coal ?
Mr. Coui.sox.—So far as it had been tried, the
former coal in Sarawak was not so good as that
discovered lately.
Mr. FAIRBAIRN—The evidence of Mr. Coulson is
that the last coal discovered is superior to that
found before.
Lord GODERICH said he did not wish to detain
his lordship after the full statement made by those
who had preceded him, but he believed he might
say it was the opinion of Sir I. Brooke, and all

those who had examined the case, that some final
opinion must be come to at the present time, partly
from Sir J. Brooke's illness, and partly from the
insurrection of the Chinese. He had reason to
think that mere fact, although it was put down,
had somewhat interfered with his authority, and
had also deprived him for the time of those who
were his best labourers. He (Lord Goderich) be-
lieved this would be borne out—that if the colony
were taken under the English protection the Chinese
would then feel that security which would enable
them to return, and give that supply of labour
necessary for the proper working of the country.
He ventured to ask his lordship to consider the
position of this country in regard to Sarawak at
the present moment. Sir J. Brooke had been re-
cognised and rewarded by- the English Government
for what he had done in that country. He had
received rewards and encouragement, and it did
appear to him it would be extremely difficult, and
the people would never consent that the Govern-
ment should desert Sir J. Brooke and those other
Englishmen whose capital had been expended there.
Supposing that any attack was made on them, or
they were to be threatened by foreign countries, or
a native Power, it was quite impossible under these
circumstances that the British subjects could be
deserted, looking upon them in the light of British
subjects. If the period had arrived at which some
change in the mode of government must be made
there, the only alternative, if the English Govern-
ment do not agree to give him protection, or to take
to themselves the territory, would be, that Sir J.
Brooke would be obliged to give it up to some
foreign Power. It was doubtful if he could do that
without direct permission of Government, and was
Government prepared to give that direct authority to
enable him to hand over that settlement to the Dutch
or to any other foreign Power ? If not, Sir J.
Brooke, after what he had done, after the approba-
tion of the Government and of his Sovereign, was
put in a very hard position. He should be exceed-
ingly sorry if the Government gave him leave to
hand it over to the Dutch. One point was not
touched upon very much, which was, if we really
are in a position not to take possession of that colony,
we are bound to give some kind of support to our own
subjects, who on the faith of what had been done,
have embarked their capital, and to a certain extent
their lives in that district, and he would venture to
impress upon his lordship the political importance
of a coal field of that kind. In these days of warfare
possession of a coal field of this kind is of the highest
importance, and they should not let it slip through
their hands, if they had the power of retaining it.
In Mr. Devereux's report be left the question of Sir
James Brooke's title very indefinite by the want of
a deed of possession on the part of the Rajah. Now
a copy of that deed was in the room, and it gives to
Sir James Brooke full power to make that territory
over to any person or Government.
The Earl of DERBY—By whom is that drawn ?
Mr. FAIRBAIRN—It is drawn by Sir Jas. Brooke.
Mr. CRAWFORD—I wish to make one observation
more with reference to the question of boundary.
The boundaries are clearly defined, by the sea on
one side, by mountains running on the other, and
also clearly defined on the other side ; so that there
can be no question of the boundaries.
A MEMBER of the DEPUTATION—Your lordship
will allow me to observe in point of fact that if Sir
James Brooke has no protection from this country,
there is nothing to prevent a Dutch ora French ship
.of war going and taking possession of it. It is clear
that he cannot carry on a war with the French or
with the Dutch, and he must at once give way. If
Sir James Brooke had taken my advice; after the
treatment he got from Lord Aberdeen's Government
he wouldnot have troubled any other Government.
These gentlemen have aright now to ask for a deci-
sion—" Yes' ;or "No ;" whether this county mean
to grant this protectorate or not. As far as I am indi-
vidually concerned for Sir J. Brooke, I confess that
I do not care either way.
The Earl of DERBY said, he had listened with
great attention—the attention to which the depu-
tation was entitled—to the statements:made upon
this subject, which was one of considerable import-
ance, but one of considerable difficulty. What had
fallen from Lord Goderich had only strengthened
the view which he had always felt of the extreme
inconvenience, to say the very least of it, of such
undertakings as Sir James Brooke's. He wished
to speak of him with the highest respect. He was
a man of great energy and influence, and there was
not the least doubt, to his personal influence and
efforts the improvement was owing in the district
of Sarawak. But what fell from Lord Goderich,
to the effect that it was impossible that the British
Government could allow British subjects who have
invested their capital on the faith of what had been
already done and to a certain extent sanctioned, to
remain unprotected was a very strong argument
against the extreme inconvenience of sanctioning
such undertakings as those of Sir James Brooke.
Sir James Brooke, a mere private individual, and
upon his own ',responsibility, without consultation
authorisation from the Government, entered into
a treaty or arrangement, or whatever they pleased
to call it, into the terms of which he need not in-
quire too closely, by which Sarawak was made
over to him, subject to the Sultan of Borneo. He
exercised very considerable influence in the coun-
try, and no doubt effected considerable improve-
ment; but if every English subject were to:be allowed
to settle in any district he might think fit, and
afterwards to call upon the Government as a matter
of right to give him military and civil protection,
and to secure him from the consequences of con-
duct which was not in the slightest degree° an-
ticipated by the Government, it must lead the
Government into endless difficulties and expen-
diture. With regard to the opinion that seemed
to be entertained as to the seizure of Sarawak by
the Dutch in the event of its not being taken into
the possession of the British Crown, he rather
thought that the negotiation to which Mr.
Crawford referred between Lord Aberdeen and
the Dutch Government some years ago, and the
treaty which had been concluded with the Sultan
of Borneo, did away with all apprehension of any
exclusive jurisdiction being exercised by Holland ;
and, whatever the importance of different posses-
sions might be, in point of fact that country which
had the command of the sea would always have
the command of the trade and commerce of those
districts. He (Lord Derby) did not deny the merits
of Sir James Brooke, and he did not deny the ad-
vantages which he had conferred on Sarawak ; but
he very greatly doubted Sir James Brooke's power
to make over—certainly not to the Dutch, but to
make over to the British Government —an absolute,
entire, and unconditional sovereignty of that terri-
tory which he had been permitted to govern.
Moreover, the question was one of very great diffi-
culty and doubt whether, apart from the personal
influence of Sir James Brooke, the settlement of
Sarawak was one of the importance which the gen-
tlemen present seemed to attribute to it, and of
course that very much shook his opinion upon the
subject. But certainly hitherto it had not been a
thriving settlement. It had not conferred very
great commercial advantages, although there had
been some ire ease in the exports. Under the pre-
sent circumstances it seemed to him very doubtful
whether it was one which it would be for the in-
terest of the Government to take into their hands,
multiplying and increasing the colonial dependen-
cies of the country, which were already too nume-
rous; every fresh, addition to which added fresh
expenditure--not only the expenditure of the local
government, but the consequent increase of the
military and naval forces to protect them. So that
he looked with very great jealousy tat increasing
the number of our dependencies or new settle-
ments. They were not additions of strength but
of weakness, and all these considerations had been
very carefully inquired into by the Queen's Govern-
ment. They did not think there was any appre-
hension whatever with regard to the case of the
Dutch. He must say, at present they were
not fully satisfied with regard to the commer-
cial advantages of Labuan aad Sarawak, and
the various propositions put before them by Sir
James Brooke appeared to them to involve a choice
of difficulty, inconvenience, and embarrassment.
Of all the proposals which had been made, that
which was the least objectionable would be the
absolute surrender of Sarawak to the British
Crown as a colonial possession ; but, then, there
must betaken into consideration whether the ac-
ceptance of that as a colonial possession was worth
the price to be paid for it in the first instance and
the expense of maintaining it afterwards, because
they must bear in mind, although it was very true
that Sir James Brooke, by his personal influence,
may have been enabled to improve that settlement
and keep up good relations with the native tribes,
it (lid not follow that the same consequences would
ensue if the settlement were made over to the
British Crown, and thrown open to British enter-
prise and colonisation. And all experience showed
them, and Sir James Brooke would be the first to
admit it himself, although he has been able to
make the revenue of the settlement pay for the
government—the revenue being about .£15,000 a
year—that, if it were handed over to the British
Government, twice that sum would not maintain

”.•••••• • .1.• •
the local government. ^ If they pressed him (Lord
Derby) for an immediate answer, the Government
would take into consideration any suggestions that
came from gentlemen of experience and knowledge,
such as themselves ; but he must say his own
opinion and that of his colleagues had been, and
was up to that moment, adverse to the adoption of
any propositions which had been made to them by
Sir James Brooke. He would not say that'decision
had been taken finally, but certainly at the present
moment he was not in a condition to say that the
Government were prepared to accept any of thc§e

propositions, nor did he think it likely any of those
propositions would be accepted. With regard to
Sir James Brooke, he did not conceive he had a
claim upon the Government in respect of what
he had done for his own purposes, and ob-
jects ; his was a half political and half com-
mercial speculation. He (Lord Derby) did
not think he had a claim upon the country
in consequence of the steps he had taken ;
it must be a matter of pure balance of
the advantages or disadvantages of taking or not
taking this as a settlement, even suppo4ing, under
the terms of his engagement, Sir James Brooke has
the power, without the consent of the Sultan of
Borneo, to make over a sovereignty which he does
not, he thought, at the present moment possess. It
• was manifest, unless he had entire authority to
hand it over, it was not in the power of the Crown
to accept a feudal tenure, and he believed Sir James
Brooke had nothing more than that description of
feudal tenure. At the present time the views of the
Government were not favourable to the adoption of
any of the propositions laid before them.
Lord GODERICII.---I did not mean to lay it down
that any British subject can rest a claim upon the
rewards given him.
Mr. FAIRBAIRN said be should be sorry to leave
the room without confirming the remarks of Lord
Goderich and endeavouring to remove the erroneous
impression on his lordship's mind. Sir James
Brooke never asked the protection of England nor
sought her interference in his country until, as a
consequence of the honours which were showered
upon him, and of the shield of apparent protection
which was thrown over him by the English Go-
vernment of the day, British subjects were induced
to embark their lives and their money in Sarawak,
and thus placed upon him responsibilities too heavy
for a private gentleman to bear.
M.r TURNER.—The English Government did
recognise the authority of the Sarawak courts of
law over British subjects. There was that kind
of formal acknowledgment of his position.
Lord DERBY said he supposed there was over any
British subject settling there. They consented
that he should exercise the same authority over the
British subjects as he exercised over the native
population, which authority he derived from the
powers conferred upon him by the Sultan of Borneo.
The Sultan gave him authority, and they on their
part said, if British subjects went to Sarawak they
must consider themselves under Sir James Brooke
and subject to the laws of the place. They could
not hear causes of complaint on the part of British
subjects if they chose to go there.
Sir DALRYMPLE ELPIIIISTONE thought the main
point was the geographical position. The whole
commerce that passed through the Straits of Singa-
pore must of necessity, pass along the coast of
Borneo ; and if there should be a war, and privateers
were to get into that sea, and these coal mines were
in the possession of anyother Power, then our com-
merce would be cut up.
The Earl of DERBY—That depends upon our
' naval superiority.
Mr. CRAWFORD thanked the Earl of Derby for
his courteous attention, and the deputation then
withdrew.