The Sun.
London, England, 1804-07-12 00:00:00

ADDITIONAL STAMP DUTIES.

The Order of the My being read for going into
a Committee on this Bill,

Mr. SHERIDAN rose to give his opposition to
the increase proposed in the Schedule, particularly
on Law proceedings ; and he must still continue to
think, that the House would have been put into a
much lamer way of understanding the Schedule, by
having it printed in the Manner he had before re-
quested, with the new and the old Taxes contrast.
ed in separate columns, opposite to each item. He
understood the Right lion. Gentleman himself (Mr.
PITT) had, for, the better guidance of his own un-
derstanding, a Schedule in his hand at that moment,
arranged in that way ; and he could not see his rea.
son for pertinaciously refusing the like aid to the
House, which he was confident,. the late Chancellor
of the Exchequer would have cheerfully granted..—
It was said, indeed, this alteration was to produce
800,0001. ; but for any judgment the House could
form from this Schedule, it might be 8 millions.—
The Hon. Member might say, every one must re.
culled the old taxes ; -but though every man might
have something ro look at to remind him of the
Taxes on • Bills, Receipts, and Notes, yet it was
impossible to remember the whole of s" complicated
a system:. He believed, indeed, the Schedule had
been actually printed in-the Manner he had described,
by direttion of His Maj,sty's late Ministers, and
had been seen by lion. Friends of his ; '4lnd he was,
hence, the more at a loss to account. for its beirg
withheld. The Right lion. Gentleman had, he
understood, talked of this Schedule as a produttion
of his own ; whereas, it differed in no tittle from
that proposed by His Majesty's late Ministers, ex-
cept in the omission of a Tax ad (valorem on Con.
vcyances, which, in the former Schedule, was esti-
mated to produce 300,0001. but which, he was
sure, would produce soo,oool. and ought to have
been adopted, He must again, however, depre.
Cate as a principle, the heavy Charges upon 1.43 W
proceedings : a principle so derogatory to the spirit
of our Constitution, as that a man in search of
redress, or right, should not be suffered to enter
the portals of a Court of Justice, until Le shall have
first purchased, at an heavy expense, a licence of
the State for the liberty of even seeking a chance
of redress; for this was, in fad, the operation
of such a Tax, which was a bar against enter.
ing the Courts of Justice. On any other thing,
in the way of manufaCture or luxury, a Tax
might be imposed, even to the prohibition of its
use, without doing any considerable mischief: a Tax
on spirituous liquors might be of vast advantage to
society, but for certain financial considet.ttions ; but
a Tax on Law Proceedings was, to all intents and pur-
poses, a violation of public justice. It, under any
arbitrary Government a licence were to he paid for
prosecuting or defending a suit, every man would
call it a horrible Country ; but in this Free Nation
it was not to be endured. He remetni)ered a strong
and apposite remark of a very shrewd and discerning
man upon this subject, Mr. H. Tooke, who observed,
that it was boasted the Law Courts of this Country
were open for every man who sought justice ; and
10 also was the London Tavern : but to a man who
was destitute of money to obtain it, justice was as.
far out of his reach in the one, as /axarier in the
other. The Tax was besides a very dangerous pre-
cedent ; for a Minister might say, a Stamp Duty was.
a handy way of raising money, and it might goon to
an excess which would absolutely preclude men from
'seeking any redress at law. Even in the present
. SchetfoTe, the Tax on proceedings in Chancery were
raised to twenty_five per cent. This must prevent •
men totally from seeking any redress in that Court,
where the uncertainty of success would hardly he
worth the risk of expense, and defeat utter ruin. It
was totally sacrificing the public justice of the Coun.
try for the sake of raising the Revenue. It .was open.
ing the Courts to the rich, and totally excluding the
poor and the oppressed from every chance of justice,
whom it was the ()Ned of the Laws to proteet anti
redress, free of any coarge, for they, contributed to
the original charges for the administration of jut-
tice in the payment of His Majesty's Judges. It
was, in tad, to faring things to the original state
previous to the. attainment of Magna Charta, when
the Subject sustained the grievance of paying a li-
cence to the King for liberty to enter his Courts in
search of jwice, and thus actually selling the jus.

tice of the land, in violation of the principle of OHa►
great Charter—
" Multi vendemus nulli negamus justici;:n."

It might be a desirable thing, he would allow, to
discourage the spirit of litigation ; but this ought
not to be done by terrifying suitors from seeking
real right, by Taxes and Penalties ; the expellees -of
Law were already sufficiently enormous and oppres-
sive, and it would be the duty of Government to
reduce instead of increasing them. He objeeted also
to the arr uLil tax upon Attorneys, to which they
ought not to be liable more than men of other pro-
fessions ; thotrgh he would admit the original tax
upon admission might have a salutary operation in
keeping improper persons out of the profession.: He
objected also to the tax on Insurance for Annuities,
a• it would severely affeel a deserving class of peo.
pie ; and he was the more surprized at its coming
from a Right Hon. Gentleman who, in his Bill for
the Income Tax, particularly excepted from the
charge, the Assurance of Annuities. But by this
tax, the pour Curate, who from a scanty pittance
wished to contribute something during life, by way
of assuring for his widow and children some means
of existence on• his demise, would be severely in-
jured. NVishing, however, to separate those Clauses
in the schedule which were peculiarly obnoxious, in
order for future and fuller discussion, and not to
impede those which were not so exceptionable, he
moved, " That it be an instrudion to the Coq,-
mit tee to divide this Bill into two Billst if they shalt
think Et."

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER..
thought that-the most proper place for the discus.sion
of particular Clauses would be in the Cornmittee,
-and ills/afore he would decline going Into them in
the present stage of the Bill. He said, the paper
which the Honourable Gentleman wished for, had
been on the Table for some days, and if he had
applied some time in the course of those days in
reading what he appeared now co anxious to see, he •
would, before that day,, have acquired the infor•.
=don he was so desirous to obtain. Indeed he
himself felt some regret that the Paper had not been
printed, because, in that case, the Hon. Gentleman
might have found some friend to read it for him, and
prevent him from falling into the esregious'error of
estimating at soo,oool. the Tax on Conveyances,
which, .in the former Schedule, was estimated orly
at .60,0001. The. discussion of this day, he ob.
served, opened pn a very different round from alai
which had been taken by the opponents of the Bill
on a former night. They had attacked the Bill on
the principle that it would aa most op,iressively on
that Profession of which he had the honour once to •
be a Member, and to whose interest certainly he
could not wish to ofrer any injury ; but he could ,
now say, that in the conversation he 11.3(1 held with

certain m,mbers of that profession, they seemed to
have very difFerent feelings from thosL: professed for
them by their advocates in that House ; And though.
each individual might not exaaly approvC all tuts
items of increase in the Schedule, yet, in general.'
they were -acceded to, as circumstances called for by
the exigencies of the limes. With- resped to the
very enormous increase that was stated by a tiearnei
and [lon. Member (Dr..LAWR ENCR)) to acctue.on-
der this 'Schedule, upon Procee.,,tils is the Civil
Courts it' was ao efft,il certainly .not, in tended, .hut
arose nut of aMisconeei ti on in wording the .
and norpteci.-ely 'considering the-number of lines anti
word 4 which constitute a folio in the l'rocee4ings of
those Courts ; and if the Tax tsere to attach' in the
manner expressed in the Schedule; upon those Who
sought the luxury of- profectitirg Suits in those
Courts, it certainly would, like most luxuries, he
pretty mirth d by the excess.ulexpence : fig
upon inquiry, it appeared that in some cases it was
necessary tu begin a Suit in one of those Courts bf
a state!nent occupying 4.03 pages, as preliminiity to -
the commencement of any adual proceedings; ionic-
thing aright lw inferred from that saint le of the .
lengt% to which
proceedings in those Courts usual- '
ly extended. It was, however, an error he would
own, 71A, I.,..itunately, one of a nature npt Vert
likely to escape detedion; for, in lad, the only
increase inicGoed to be made was a general propor"
titiO of _ie-third upon the rates in general. Nowt
as to the oblec'tion against the principle of taxing
Law Proceeotngs, G.:litlemen would recoiled that
it Nv.,i one of no very modern adoption, but c0m1.,:
induced in the reign mof King William a period a
our history not very favourable to unconstitutional

measures, and sinci taken up and adopted by suc-
cessive Parliaments; and he could bet no reason whY
lAA, Proceeding,: were not as fairly objeets of lax•
ation as oilier transactions of intercourse between

men in society. With resped to the plea of injury
to the Poet, it was the peculiar charadsristic of
our Constitution to assign a nilde to them of seekiog
justice in forma pauprrir. But he utterly denied
that this was a Tax on Justice, as the cost must fall
upon the party maintaining An unjust suit; and so
far was he from coinciding in the argument of the
Hon, Member,, fur opening the Law Courts for Li-
tigation without expellee, that he thought it a g 9.4
thing to discourage it. The Hon. Member has
said, that a
.Tax on Law proceedings was a. viola•
lion of Maa Charta, and a Sale of Public Justice.
He totally denied the inference, and asserted, that
the princip:e of Magna ChArta was only against the
practice of .:etting up justice to Auction, and de-
ciding in favour of the highest bidder. He would
nor, for the present, go more into the arguments of
the lion, Gentleman ; but regretted the Honoura•
ble Member had not resorted to the information he
might have had from the Papers on the Table.
Mr. SHERIDAN answered, that it would be 1
.tedious operation indeed, for Members to be obliri
to read the Papers, one after another, instead of 110•
ingit printed.

Dr. LAIrRENCE, at considerable length, °P.
posed the increased Taxes, as operating with pec"'
liar injustice and severity upon the proceedings in
the Courts where he prattised, and more especially
,t
in the Ecclesiastical, where the rate of charge viola"
now he raised to 50 per cent. while the rate the
Court of Chancery would he only 25. The Right
lion. Gentleman, had wasted his wit in alluding.
the voluminous length of proceedings in' the Cr"
Courts, ore of which he bad seletied for oblerv.3:f
tion ; but from the ef,tablished order and nature ,;,,
proceeding in those Courts, it was necessary, tl
in many instances, the preliminary ararimenrs shout,:
be of considerable at well ;s the I„hsecittei

necessity, however tvplesisant. He felt the same
necessity with Mr. SIIEKIDAN, that the Schedule
he described should have been printed, and thought
that the voluminous Papers often laid on the Table,
. . confused, and without reference or arrangement,
were ill calculated to give clear or satisfaaory in-
-1 formation. He then took an enlarged view of the
operation of the Bill, upon the various pro.
! ceedings of the Civil Courts, ,nd observed, that in ! cases of comi)laint between husband anti wife, where,
the costs on both sides must always fall on the hus.
hand ; in Prize Causes, where the parties ,on one
side were that gallant set of men British Sailors,
and on the other,. Foreign IVleschants, who were
obliged to follow their Ships into Our ports, and vin-
dicate themselves it, our Courts against the charges
on which they were seized ; in suits instituted on
the subjeet of Wills, the' fees on the admission of
Praetors, and a vast variety of other cases, the cx
Pence of Stamps would be so enormous, as to deter
,men from seeking justice nr Yedress, and fall most
heavily on those who were least able to bear it, and
Mostly' on the injured party:
• Mr. ADDINGTON said, that finding the:Sche.
dole on the Table a counterpart of that which he in.
tended to bring forward, he felt-it his duty to avow
it as his, and to assume his spate of any obloquy
that might attach to the measure. Fre thought the
Babied Of the. Schedule very fair objets of Taxa-
tion; arid said, the Hon. and Learned Member who
just sat down, had not duly adverted to. the Sche-
disk, or, he would, have seen, that on a' vast variety
of prize causes, to which he had alluded, there was
no increase whaitier. Another inarlvertencytintv.
which another Hon. Gentletrian (Mr. StisittoAN)
bad fallen, respeted annuity assurances of certain
classes, upon which he would find that the charges
had been decreased instead of being enhanced ; and
with respect to the Tax on Law Proceedings, it was,
for the most part, a mere consolidation of former
Taxes under one Stamp, with a very trivial addi-
tion, Which was amply compensated by tl.e security
and simplification of the, Duties, effeaed by reduc.
lug various Stamps to one, and thereby preventing all
possibility of invalidating such proceedings by the
error of improper Stamps, an advantage of much
importance, both to pratlitioners.and clients. He was
against the Motion of the Hon. Gentleman, because
he thought the Committee would afioid the fullest
opportunity for discussion, and enable him to tis,,ve
for expunging of any 'Clause he disliked, wilich
Ile could trot do inithe present stage of the Bill.'
Sir &Al. PtiLtENEY objeaed tti the Tax on
Law Proceedings, as utterly unconstitutional ; and
said, that the plea of that tax originating in King ,
WILLIAM'. reign, was no argument in its favour.
Many obnoxious takes were adopted in that reign,
'under the pressing ekigenciet of the times, which
were since repealed, and would be scouted if they
Were proposed at this day.
Mr. Serfeant BEST very ably opposed the Tax
'on Law Proceedings, as absolutely barring the doors
of the Courts of Justice agaii,st all the po' ri as well
as the middling order of society ; and said+ that no
tnan could venture to seek justice for a moderate
sum of money without an expence of a Stamp more
than it was worth his while to pay. He denied
that the costs of suit fell upon the losing party ; for
that party frequently became insolvent during the
eourse onitigation, and not only the Costs of prose.
cution, hut the enormous expence of stamps, was to be
added to the loss of debt already stlstained. In many
cases the circumstances were'so equally poised, that
no costs were allowed by the Court to either side,
and in this ease4he incurred charge of stamps would
fall heavily op both. He considered it as in effea
a sale of justice, and a measure which would deter
Men from seeking justice. He always understood
the fair principle of taxation to be, that taxes should
be laid on those* who were most able to bear them ;
but in this case the principle would be inverted,
and the butthen of the tax thrown where it
could least be borne, upon the indigent and clic.
tressed. The tax ad valorem on the transfer of
Property was a principle equally oppressive, as it
was a tax on the Property, and not on Annual In.
come, which the distressed borrower paid, by fre-
quent transfer, while the rich possessor for twenty
Yeats paid nothing. Upon the whole he consider.
ed it as'a decided bar against public justice.
Mr. Dicicssnibts said, the Tax did not oppress
the poor, nor debar them from justice, because it. did
mu attach upon the prceimtlings before Magistrates
throughout the kingdom.
The ATTORNILY GENERAL salt', the whole of the
arguments against taxing Law Proceedings were not
against the present Bill, but against all the priced.
'NI, Bills for imposing such taxes, and which,the
present Bill did no more than increase.
. Mr. WINDHAM said, that if it was an evil ori.
dually to tax Law Proceedings, as Ire fully agreed
'rage the
it surely must be a still greater evil to me.
the tax. He coincided with all the arguments
urged against It,
enrols, against li. as a tax on public justice, and de.
_e maxim of Dr. Johoson, that to
Itciriunagi
tethrienspooforman and the rich 00e to meet on
Justice, was the greatest desideratum
fn out ~,,,,,. of ,
of
Witicii-hej..,si jurisprudence ; a desideratum
always despaired, but which this sys-
tett.tris)ve ci
ould. render
, still more impradicable.
‘ANCELLOR of the Esou Ea stated in
"Planation, that the root maw uld hve a it
to full cosIS to the
extent of nA
theoStampli right
Duty he
admitted, however' that such costs would he inside.
(Pate to the exPences he should incur in the prose.
Fution of Ilia tight ; but he contended they would
Include the whole of the additional duties.
e After Mr. WINDHAM had said a few 'worth in
.
aphtnations stsangers were ordered to withdraw,
beet the Motion was r
negat•' .Iwithout division.
When admission was again vg
iven,lltefit aiuse was in
'll,,L,Cominittee on the Clauses of the Stamp Duty Bill,
Ivir. ALEXANDER in the Chair.
Mr. SHERIDAN ob' q iiz,ll i I becom
les et to the ...t. e, u e
in

It part of the Sill, ait nothing had been anticipa t
to the House by which its judgment could be formed
on so material an addition.
The CHANCELLOR of tit: Excncia,uta said, to
leave ciut the Schedule, would be to omit one of the
ltlust important anti efficient portions of the Bill.—
. r the Hon.. Gentleman wanted information of the
e,/tilitihg Stamps, a list was printed, which was in
Lie hands of every Stationer.•• He seems to negled
ordinary means of gaininz intelligence, and CO

him no explanation whatever.
Mr. SHERIDAN was surprized to hear the sense
and understanding of the Committee was thus to be
employed on loose irregular Papers, instead of being
assisted by the produdtion of authenticated instru-
ments. This Bill, which was to disappoint all iii:
ends of Justice in the Country, was introduced un-
der circumstances peculiarly suited to its nature and
design.
As the Chairman proceeded with the Clauses, a
desultory conversation took place, in :Itich Mr.
Se.rjeant BEST, Mr. HUsKIssoN, Sir W. ELFORD,
Mr. WM. SMITH, Mr. FoNBLANQUE, Mr. VAN.
SITTART, and the CHANCELLOR of the Exclls.
QUER, submitted some observations to the Commit.
tee.

The SECRETARY at. WAR conceived the Honour.
able Gentleman opposite (Mr. SHERIDAN), had been
guilty of many inaccuracies, in his fads and reason.
ing, which he hail enjoyed sufficient opportunity to
have prevented.
Mr. SHERIDAN said, the Right Hon. Secretary
had the happiness to belong to a Country where
they possessed the Second sight ; he, unfortunately,
was of a blundering race in the. West, and might
reasonably expect some compassion for his heredita:
ry infirmities. With all that respell he felt for the
superior discernment of the Right Hon. Secretary,
it was his duty to say the Bill was calculated to
prevent the attainment of justice in our Public
Courts ; it was not to impose large sums on Hack.
ney Coaches, ()wick Medicines, and Lavender
. Water ; it was not on the constitutional grounds
connected with the use of Dr. Anderson's Pills,
that he objeted to it ; .but it infringed the sacred
principles of our Political Constitution, which no
pharmaceutic remedy could subsequently restore.—
Four or five hundred thousand pounds were in mul-
tifarious forms io be raised by these Stamps, and the
Poor were to be deprived of that prole:lion of the
law to which they were entitled.
The CHANCELLOR of the ExClirQuEß thought
the present not the proper stage to enter into the
general principles of the Bill: the Hun. Gentleman
seemed to have very soon forgotten, that his Mo-
tion was'not to abrogate but to divide the Bill. The
figures he had also misstated ; and what was most
unlucky fur him was, that he could not comet his
arithmetic without stultifying his argument.
Mr. SHERIDAN made a Short reply ; after which
several otherC:ause4 were read and agreed to. The
House being resumed, it was resolved, that the
House should resolve itself into the same Committee,
and report progress on Friday.
Mr. HusittssoN brought Up a Bill to enable Hts
Majesty to raise a sum not exceeding Two,Mil_
lions and a Halt sterling, in Exchequer Bills, to be
isoltd for that, purpose. It was read a first time,
and agreed to be lead a second time to. notroia,
Also a Bill for a grant to Hta MAJESTY our of the
Corsolidated Fund of the year 1804, went through
the same stages.
Th.: Bill 'hir the Regulation of the Accomptant.
General', Office, was read a second time, and is to he
com;a:,:ed in a Cutmnittee of the whole House on
Friday next.
The ..;her Orders of the Day were then read.
Tile Irish, Revenue Bill is to be committed on
Friday next.
The Bill for the better Support of His Majesty's
Household was read a third tone and passed,
The Bill for the Encouragement of the Leather
Trade was read a second flux, and it was resolved
that it be committed in a Committee of the whole
House to.morrow : also the Bill fur cite Regulation
of the Fisheries.
The House resolved itself into C m.nittee on
the Lottery Bill, and on the Chair
it was agreed to report progress to. oort
The eport on the Circulation tit Bank Notes
was brought up by Mr. ALEXANDER: tit,: Amend.
rents were read a second time and agreed to. The
Bill, with the Amendments, to be euzrossed, and
read a third time to.morrow.
The House will to-morrow resolve itself into a
Committee on the Property
Adjourned at Half past Eleven o'Clock.