The Sun.
London, England, 1804-07-14 00:00:00

IRISH !iPIP.ITS.

Mr. 'Po tit moved the Order, which had dropped
ye:itettLiy in consequence •of the thinness of the
tiotw, 1.-.)r the second reading of the Bill fot Ware-
Ilime.made Spirits in Ireland.
itrtc.'lltNstlN sail, he held in his hand a
Petition from Richard 'l'. Blunt, for himleif and
Others, pistilleri of the City of Cork, praying to
be heard by thealseres or Counsel against this
.Bill.
The ti.i.t,ipr.ra Stated, that •it' was a Petition
gainst a Tali %11, it was.contrary to the standing
orders to tr:etive it. The Petition being read, it
fool,l to have nothin3 in it contrary to the
re,or.ding orders (we Stlpposr because the WarOnusing
rail is nut a dire{ Tax Lill), and was ordered to
00 the Table: On the i'Vlotion that the Peti-
rionet heard by himself or Counsel on the Report,
Do Tr p, Nu.ne,ited, that the proper time for
i'TN Fit 1-; Co ousel 4-rt,ulLl be before tie Commit tee, and
tot, •:;e1 that the Bill be now read a second time.

dlr. 1101"CliINSON pleatleil the injury
1113+ rr.ti; vv,,u;tl do to the I r.it. of Ireland, as an ex.
his et:timing lit the tip in it yet,ter.
C r flit Whidl he 14/.IS libUilt to
It ttl toe pre,cilt (yt.tga. it was not necchmry
Itiia here to cntcr into any, panrw
~ tie on toe
lu).Cf). of the I)i•tiNers 01 rid t.,
Of;lo'l33;tibuilpl,7t a tail 11,1(0;
of the r.lblic th;ir C•
tvzii 114 hi:;.J to '.ay C
,nl,l
eody r.Sttih i.h, t,f
II 1. ,on,rny to lie

i. __:

Ttl -..t;, •
•

; c.).15uq,411,:,c

:boonty of.B,per cent, on all spirits distilled in stills
of above soo gallons, of 16 per cent. on all distil_
led in stills oftbove moo gallons. This regulation
was still More beneficial to the Revenue than to the
Stiller, for the effea of it had been to increase the
Revenue from Distilleries from 60,0001. to i zo,oool.
in die first year, and at last to 800,0001.-and to re.;
duce the number of Distilleries from zOOO to boo,
and thereby diminish the' expence of colleCtion.
These provisions were granted prior to the Union,
and 'enforced then. At the Union, by the third
section oldie sixth article, it was enacted, that all
artieles.of the growth, produce, and manufadures
of eithdr`Country, should be imported into the other,
on paying the same 'duties which were paid for si.
milar articles in the Country into which' the iin.
portation was made: A regulation had been made
conformably to this principle, for the mutual im.
portation of the produce and manufaCture of both
countries, and papers had been laid on the Table,
and schedules had been framed accordingly, in which
no alteration had been made, as to these duties, which
were the only advantage the Irish had. This bounty
had now been enjoyed 20 years by the Irish Distil.
let's, and it was'to be supposed that that.: who'had
framed the present schedules:were not aware of this
and the other circumstances, when they arranged
them. In the second clause of the Sth article, where
the rights of the English distillers were provided for,
it was enaaed,' that all duties 'and bounties which
interfered with the mutual intercourse, should cease,
and this allowance was still permitted to subsist.—
It may be said the At of Union did away this
allowance,; he submitted it did not, for all that
the Union allowed was, the power of emitting a
counterkling duty, to counteraa internal regulation.
If there was any pa:son who was more concerned
than another, to guard the rights of Ireland in this
instantx, it 'Was the Right Hon. Gentle Man oppo.
site, the CHANCELLnIt of the EXCHEQUER, whose
faith was pledged the provisions of the AEI of
Union should riorbe a mere dead letter. What he
principally rested on, was the declining state of the
Revenue of Irelard, he would not say in conse.
cuenee of the Union, but at least since that mea.
sore, the increase of the debt of Ireland, the falling
off of, the onanufaaures of that Country, even
of its staple, the Linen Manufanure, .according to
the. highest authority, that of the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr: Fossg), the diminution of its
provision trade, the annihilation of its woollen ma.
nufaCturand•that this was the only point in which
the trade of Ireland had any prosperity. He did
not say that the Union did not, afford many sources
of public benefit, but none of thein had yet come
into afflon, and this was, in fail, the only benefit
that Ireland eijoyed ; but the Manufaethrent here
found out it was some advantage to Ireland, and
they wished to take it away. The question
waa before the Judges, and there was every
reason to believe their decision would be in fa..
your of the Irish ManufaCturers. Why then was
it proposed to turn short, and to endeavour by
this Ad to deprive the Irish pistineft of the. ad-
,
vantage they 'enjoyed ? The most respeaable legal
opinions of both Countries had been taken On
this measure, and the. result of all was, that
this benefit should not be taken away from Ire.
land. This Bill was held.out as a boon to the Irish
Nation, by excusing the payment of duty on ware.
housing ; but on the Distillers it would be a bur.
then, as it deprived them of their former allowance.
.0f the Spirits which were exported from Ireland
nine.tenths were' sent to Britain ; so that on the
remaining portion no advantage could be counted
on. He knew the Csatac soLoit of the EXciilt.
.QUER must be aware of the present stale of Ire.
land; that he must have turned his attention to
it ; that he roust wish to amend it, as the best
means of strengthening the Empire, The Right
Hon, Gentleman built his glory on the achieve.
merit of the Union, and if the Union could be carried
into dila by the consolidation of the aff4aions
and the advantages of .both
,parts of the'Empire, it
would 'Wife that cad; but if the Right lion. Gen.
tleman clearly turned his attention to this Bill, be
was sore he.would not so far counteraa the interests
of Ireland,

Th; CIiiINCELLOR of the 4XCHEQUV?
sitid„ this question lay in a narrow compass. 'There
Could be no doubt of the religious obligation of the
Aft of Union, in the letter as will as in the spirit,
In the spirit, nothing cot;h:t be More clear, than that
articles of the produce- and manufaCture of each
Country, should be admitted Into the other, on pay-
ing the sarneduty that the hotpe •manufatfturers paid.
On this principle, all spirits from Jutland to great
Britain were to receive a drawback to the amount of
the whole of the dories 'the); had paid at 'homes to he
charged in Engliltni with the satne as home trade
spirits paid here. It happened alit, in Ireliod
an alloy:ortee of 8 per cent. was given .to stills of
500 z 6 per cent. to spirits distilled in
stills-of moo gallons. When these spirits came to
be exported' they received a drawback of the whole
they had paid, with the allowance, which operated
as a bounty of per cent. in one instance, and of
16 in the other, against the British spirit, It was
true, this regulation had subsisted a& an iniernal.one
in 'retain! for twenty years, and great benefit had
been found from it to the revenue, • As an internal
regulation it was allowed to remain, but he did 'Mit
think -any regulation could be regarded as a per.
manent cosnFatt. At the time the regulation was
adopted there could be no view to the Union, but
having been pasted by the Act of Union, was it to
he sup poled that it. WWI to be unaltered ? EVery
Act,of the separate Parli;tmentt Vemained subjeci to
the diScretion of the United Parliarnent. With re.
sped to the legal opinions, the only difference was,
that the Officers thought this allowance so
opposite to the spirit of the Act of Union, that it
most have been dtme away by that Mt ; the Eng.
lildt Law (Akers, though the), agreed that the
allowance was contrary to the spirit of that Atl,
th,tight it Was due to the letter of that Mt to frame
a legliinJive loci:Aire for that purp.)se. One thought
it sva, not net.ssary to apply to Parliament, the other
thout;ht it was. In 'his view the point eras $0 Ck:ir,
001 11.,1,:td, evert per :n in that House WO a dtiS't rent
he would sat' there was aio rcom for a
.Ii lie bad r.:ontndered the rubi,ya
at, n kj-ol), and he w;,., convinced that if this :iro.
»Ot azreed.l.o, there would bt:

;reconcile himself to be a party to.
Dr. LAWRENCE was adverse to the Union, as
it was likely to give birth to questions of this sort
of commercial interference. Of all questions of this
kind the most difficult were those which went to
take away advantages enjoyed on one side, and thus
to impose burthens which were not general. He
would abstain fiom saying more on this point, as
what he should say might have the appearance of
being biassed fly interest.
Mr. FRANCIS, considering the siroat ion of Ire-
land, thought it right to look tenderly towards that
Country whenever an opportunity occurred.
Mr. PANSITT RT said, that,when represents-
lions were made on this bulled Ina ,year, it- wa:,
clearly the opinion of the Irish.Goire nimept that
this allowance was a bounty ; and the only question
was, whether the A.I of Union, coupled with the
temporary Ads which had followed, bad established
them so as to make them a matter of faith. Pro.
=dings had been commenced by. the Distillers here
for laying their ,case:before ;Parliament, but had been
withdrawn, on the assurance of the consideration of
their 'case on the part of Government.
Mr. ORMVir said, the Irish Parliament was
not pledged eternally to an Ad which expired every
z9th of September, and which, if not annually re.
riew,ed, expired at that period. TNs was an internal
question, and so far as it was internal the measure
was continued. He contended that the Corn Laws
of the present Bession did vast :benefit to Ireland be.
yond what it suffered by this Bill. This allowance
of a d,edudion of for every tool. was in fad a
bounty as 161. on- 84.1. or of 20!. per cent.; the
advantage of warehousing was .besides to be con-
sidered.' The Irish Distillers, Who had come to.'
Looduri last year "on the sobjed, would, lie was
Sure, have been very well satis6ed with this ar-
rangement so he was sure would the Whole of the
Irish Distillers, wheo the tneasore was explained
to them.
Mr. SH.ER,DAN allowed the provision alluded'
to had been in force in Ireland for twenty years,
and had been instituted without any view to the
Union. How then could the Right Hon. Gentler
man (Mr. Pita), .be so clear as to the sense of the
Articles of Union, when this provision of the Irish
Parliament, of such long standing, had not been al.
tercd by the Ad of Union; and had been conarrned
by every Ad since that zra. If it was so obvious,
that this was an injustice to the English Distillers,
why was not that injustice pointed out before ? It
was true, application had been made by the English
Distillers, but these applications had always been.
withdrawn, Hence there was reason to presume
that the, allowance would be continued, and the
Irish Distillers had accordingly vested theitclpital
1 in large works, and extensive stock. This was
hard. .The thing should be left to a legit (leeibion,
and while that was eXpeaed, the allowance should
not be withdrawn, where tbere-was reason to ek.
pea that the trade of Ireland would Ix fostered and
cherished. •
Mr. IrM, SM/Dirwas persuaded, that if' this
point was not noticed in fmni ng the Schedule on the. •
Aft of Uni6n, it was by oversight. Application had
been made by the English Distillers, and redress
had been puimised in one way or another. The
only fair principle was, ;he principle of equality ;
and if the extent of Works, and the Expenditure of
Capital was added, it would weigh infinitely on the
side of the English Distillers.
Mr. FOSTAR was sure, that when the Irish Dis.
tillers understood this Bill, they would look upon
what it took away from them as a just privation,
and on what it gave them as a benefit. &fore the
Union no exportation of Irish Spirits could take
place to England ; now there was no limit to that
Eiportation. Before • the Union, there Was no
power of Warehousing; now there was. The duty.
at the Union was very low; it was now 45. a Gal.
lon, and all this was saved to the Distiller. These
advantages were long wished for by Ireland, and he
was happy to have introduced the measure which
gave them.
Mr. DAWSON complained, that this measure
was brought forward at this late period of the Set_
sion, when so few Irish. Members were present, when
those birds of passage-brought over toe occasional
service, and who were seen in such numbers a few
days back, had returned to their native clime (a
cry of "hear hear 1") If this advaritage to Ire-
' land was an oversight in the Ad of Union, the sur.
render of the Constitution of that Country may be
said to be a greater oversight. If it were now to
be said, give us back that Constitution, the surren.
der of which was an oversight, what would be the
answer ? Yet the sole advantage which Ireland en.
joycd was asked back on the same ground. P.irlia-
ment was certainly competent to make an alteration
in this point, but he feared it scarce would.
Mr. ALEXANDER could not suffer the cia as.
serred by his -Hon. Friend to pass without an dbscr-
vation, as it might, if not contradided, prove in.
jurious, from the impression it might tnake in Ire.
land. The Hon. Member contended, that there
was a greater number in proportion of the Irish than
the English Members then present, When the re_
gulation was made, the Export Trade was unknown
in'lreland, it was intended to give the great Dis.
tiller an advantage over the small Distiller, and as a
regulation, he insisted it was competent to Parlia-
ment to make any alteration in it.
Col. LONOPIEt.ti expressed his decided disappro.
bailor) of the measure, as contrary to the Attieles of
the Union, and likely to operite to the ruin of the
Trade.
Colonel FrrzomaLo was a friend to the esta-
blishinent of equality in the commercial intercourse
between the two countries. Those conversations
respe4ting countervailing duties, he considered. as
hot likely to promote the peace or the tranquillity
of either Country. He looked forward with plea.
sure to the period when all countervailing duties
should be done -away, and the produce di either
Country might be carried into the other on theaame
terms as from one County into another.
Mr. Rots ZAT WAR said a few word; in support
of the' Bill.
;sir Gamma Hitt argued, that as the Export
Trade was not in the contemplation of the Irish
;,arli:iment when making the regulation, the present
1 measure could not be considered incon,istent With
the'Article'i of 'the Union,

Cott il s