The Sun.
London, England, 1867-05-30 00:00:00

I,ODON HOUSES.

154, 155, 153, 157, Miuories ; 83, 81, 85, BG. 87, FB, 8:.
Aldsate ; :5(1;, 507, OxfoAl-stniet, 12, 3, Ilan:
Street ; 137, 138, Tottenham-court-road; 283, Euston-road.

COUNTRY Bralford, Yorkshire,

LONDON, THURSDAY, MAY 30,_1867.

It is well known that there are difficulties in
the way of all new schemes, and that if the'Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, concerning the arrange-
ment of morning sittings, met with a check on
its first trial. The " count out" was last night
made the subject of some discussion, but no par-
ticular conclusion was arrived at respecting it, ex-
cept that the transaction had been a very unneces-
sary one. Certainly if this plan is to answer at
all, it will not do for such summary proceedings
to be adopted. Col. FRENCU called attention to
the subject, and state I that he did not complain
of the conduct of the Government, because its
members were all ready in their places but the
count out was due to a private member, who, at the
very commencement of the proceedings, rose and
moved that the House be counted, and he asked the
Home Secretary if the Government were inclined to
provide against the recurrence of such a thing.
Mr. G. HARDT replied that the Government only
acted in the spirit of the resolution of the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer, and they did their best to get
a house together. The right hon. gentleman said
that he could not account for the matter by saying
that it was an accident such as might occur in the best
regulated family, because it was no accid.ent at all,s:nce
there were plenty of members to make a house who
were outside. He added that the Government never
intended that private members should lose their
opportunities, and he felt " sure that no such oc-
currence as that of the count would take place

again."
We hope that this prediction will be verified,
because it was a most unbrtunate thing for all
parties concerned in the affair, and made that ar-
rangement appear a failure which was in reality
admirably adapted to the state of things it referred
to. We expect that Mr. HAlnv's definition of
the affair was the correct one, when he said that
the probability of the count out which they heard
of upon their arrival at this House, that it would
be counted out did not depend so much upon those
who were outside as upon those who were visible.
Colonel KNOX'S explanation of the steps he had
taken in the matter was not a satisfactory one,
although it acquitted him of any intention to in-
terfere deliberately with the Government scheme,
which he indeed opposed as being one likely to
further the interests of private members, and also
to procure advantages to the House. The
reason he gave for moving that the house
be counted was that he wishel to prevent the com-
mittee on the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill from Wing
nominated, because, in his opinion, it was not pro-
perly constituted. We think that this was most
extraordinary conduct on the part of the bon. and
gallant member, and Mr. DEN3IAN'S remarks ou
the subject were much to the point when he said
that he considered it a gross abuse of the spirit of
the laws of Parliament. Because there happened
to be on the paper a proposition which appeared ob-
noxious to him, that was no justification for him to
interfere with the business of Parliament by a
factious proceeding.
_ _ _

We hope that there may be no repetition of such
proceedings, which can serve no purpose but that
of retarding public business, and it is manifestly
unfair that all arrangements shoull be stopped be-
cause one unp')pular thing, in th opini Ai of some,
is to be movei for. AcJordiug to this theory a
count out might take place any night if some eager
spirit were oa the watch to prevent business being
carried on, so that the principle must be a false one
which dictates such proceedings.

The evidence being given before the royal com-
mission on Trades Unions is in the highest degree
important and interesting. During its earlier sit-
tings much valuable information was elided from
the secretaries and managers of the Trades Unions
themselves. We say elicitel advisedly, for there
was a manifest reluctance on the part of these wit-
nesses to say more than could be helped. The con -
trast between the evidence•of the employer and the
employed is very m irked. The former are
not only ready bat anxious to give full infor-
mation, and so far from measuring their words
or weighing their answers, they often volunteer
statements, and give practical illustrations of their
answers. The witnesses on behalf of the Unions,
on the contrary, for the most part speak with a
certain reserve, and the interrogatories have often
to be put in two or three different forms before a
direct answer can be obtained. In som: cases where
circulars requesting information have been sent to
the Unions no answer has been vouessafel. There
is a wish to preserve a degree of mystery about
their proceedings, which may be attributable either
to a wish to. enhance their dignity, or to a fear of
losing ground in public estimation. Certainly so far
.L 1 revelations have as yet gone, they have confirmed
the prevailing impression of the tyranny of the
system. Indeed the perpetual domination and inter-
ference that goes on with both masters and men
appears to lookers on simply intolerable. The rights
of labour, the independence of the workman, and
all other fine and liberal theories may sound very
well on the platform or the hustings, but they evi-
dently will not do for the workshop. The accounts
of every-day life in this old-fashioned, straight-
forward England of ours in this nineteenth
.entury asssimilate more closely to the do-
ings of the Inquisition or the Secret Tribunal
in the middle ages than to anything nearer at hand.
The incessant vigilance which is exercised over the
proceedings of non-unionists is something wonder-
ful, and the sense of being so persistently watched
and spied must be of itself irritating and depress-
ing to either man or master. Here is an instance
cited before the Commission. Among the clerks of
some master house-painters at Blackpool, whoee
names were given, was a non-union man, who had
been brought up as painter and writer. One day
when he was measuring some work he found that
the rods with which he usually measure I were worn
out, and lie therefore took a little paint and marked
the feet and inches afresh on the rods. Upon this
the committee of the • Blackpool Operative llouse
painters' Asseeiation ad Ireesed a remonstrance to
the employers, because " their book-keeper had been
ruing &Jule writing or painting, he not being a

dain'cr."

:A [any other elts2s were cite,l, illtutrating the
one 111330 fl) 1.1 az;r3-ssive sDitit,

canner in whiA the Unionists t tke advauta.!e c

pressure of ,work to threaten the masters
to say the I;.ist of it, mean. One fruitful
of their
ioar,:e of dispute is the employment
owu rehtions by the masters whni they are
not Union men. Mr. TANNER, a maser slater,
arid plasterer of Liverpool, has two sons • work-
ng at the trade. He received an intimation from
the men working wiAi them that if they did not
subscribe to the union the same as those who were

the shop they uould strike against them. Air.
rANNER ultimately gave the required amount rather
than disturb the worl-. More. ieremktory and un-