The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-29 00:00:00

THE SUN,

lord consult some member of the late Government in the alleged that before the division was expected to take
House of Commons? (Hear.) Why did he not go to place at the close of the late debate any intimation was
the noble lord the member for Tiverton ? (Hear.) There made of the Royal will, or any indication given of thepolicy which the Government would recommend to the
ect to a dissolution. But, observed
a in r ei
is not, I believe, existing at present such an estrange-
Soverei
meat between the noble lord and the noble lord the II the nobleg
lord:aped this is a point on which he and his
member fur Tiverton as to prevent a frank and candid , friends are very sensitive—this event was talked about
communication between them upon the subject. (Hear, everywhere—in the clubs, in the lobby of this house, I
suose, and certain also with admirabe frankness
and laughter.) If he had consulted the noble lord tho hereby several gentlemly en below the gangway.l (Laughter.)
member for Tiverton, perhaps he might have found that to The word dissolution," said the noble lord, "iwta
iss
that noble lord, as far as his own judgment and public spoken everywhere ; the practticienoaf
highso
speakingoll 8 t i tutional
experience went, would not have agreed with Lord Cla- most inconvenient,
ld areenclaltemaunsd,
denounce it." Well, I
Tendon as to the impression upon his mind. (Hear.)
mbealineavaerllferanvoebire lordep is quite correct as to the fact.
the Why, what happened two days before the break up of Yon really could not enter any house inn
dissolution."
the late Government I The hon, gentleman the member which it was not said, "It must end in
for Devizes rose and put a question to the noble lord Why did they say so
in What hdatteen made people everywhere
dissolution." Why, Sir, it
than at the head of the Governmene, having reference to say " This must end . .
es
nbtotuhsae
t,
pwehoo-
our policy with regard to France ; and what said the sevnahsethhaevceodntdnuwcatrodfe cheerrtammajme
noble lord / (Hear.) Why, Sir, he rose in his place and pie began to see and to feel that there was no alter-
dstiyv'isdaGaolsveiarntmhi
said—
'd it everywhere felt that Lord Derby had
native but getting rid of the house. (Laughter.) The
" Before I answer the question of the hon. entleman people who
I would wish to put a question to the house. (Hear) I been caallendreusrapniloenntle.y her Majesty most unexpectedly to
Lord Derby told her Majesty that
would ask the house what is their wish and what is their fhoerm G
had not declared followers in the popular house suf-
heention on a matter of great national importance. Is
it their wish and intention that those friendly and confi- fi j
cie.ty, and in an admirable spirit humbly counselled
nt to give him anything approaching to a ma-
_
deutial relations which so happily now subsist between
herr' Majesty to reconsider her appeal to him, at
the Governments of England and France should be
maintained ;oris it their wish and intention to inhti s,, the same time rightly assuring her that, whatever
into the relations, between the two countries a spirit of might be her decisioe, be was entirely devoted to
her service. Her Majesty graciously condescended
irritation, of bitterness, and of animosity ?"
to reconsider her appeal. These are not State secrets.
And the noble lord declined to answer the question.
T
(Hear.) Now that was, I believe, only 48 hours before The noble lord seemed to intimate to the house and to
the country that I had been telling State secrets in
the break up of the late Government, and the noble Buckinghamsh!re, but these are the statements which,
lord conveyed to the house, when he declined to by her, Majesty's permission, the Earl of Derby made in
answer the question, that asking that question might the House of Lords when he announced his accession to
alone decide the issues of peace or war. (Hear.) Allow
office. (Hear.) Well, the people of this country knowing
me to recommend the noble lord, who professed such ex-
all this, knowing that Lord Derby and his friends badffi
not been eager to seize the spoils of oce, but had acted
t o
our relations with France were of raordinary astonishment at hearing that three month a
character sos very differently from the conduct of others recently—(a
ag laugh)—knowing that it was after the due representation
delicate, to consult the noble lord the member for Tiver- of these difficulties to her Majesty that she repeated her
ton upon the subject. Well, sir, at about the same period wish, and that it was in deference to her commands and
the noble lord will remember that the Ambassador of from a paramount a mse of duty, that we took this re-
France quitted the Court to which be was accredited sponsibility—knowing, as they did, that we had sedu-
and returned to his own country ; and such a step is only lonely, honestly, and not altogether without succeae ad-
taken, as the nolele lord must know, and as every one ministered affairs during our brief tenure of office, the
knows, in a critical state of affairs. (Hear) The noble great body of the people, whether Whigs, Tortes, or
lord is astonished that I should have referred to that Radicals, when they saw a cabal organised—(cheere)—
critical nature of our relations with France. (Hear.) when they saw the sense and spirit of the House of Corn-
Why, air, three months have passed away since that mons exhibited by some of its most eminent members
state of things existed, and what has occurred during opposed to the Government generally, but yet not con-
that period has considerably—l may
say entirely deectuding to take part with that cabal—(hear, hear)—
changed, the feeling which exeited in the Cabinet and when they saw all these circumstances, felt as every man
Court of the Tuileries. (Hear, and oh, oh !) I make of spirit, whatever his political opinions, must have felt,
that statement without fear of being contradicted by any that a Government which had acceded to power under
person of authority. ("Ob, oh I " from Mr. Rich.) 1s such circumstances and encountered such opposition
the hon. gentleman who cries " Oh, oh! " prepared to could not in duty recede from its position without hum-
contradict it I (Mr. Rich—Yes.) Well, then, upon so bly counselling her Majesty to exert her constitutional
grave a subject I hope that he will come forward with privileges. It wanted ne Minister to menace Par liatnent
those proofs which the house has a right to expect.
• —it wanted not even the private intimations of people
(Hear.) Sir, the relations which existed between E ig-
in office to influence votes. The fear of a dissolution, the
land and France three months ago are very much announcement of a dissolution, came from the opposite
changed, I may say entirely changed ; and there subsists benches—from the opposite party. (Hear, hear.) It was
at this moment, as is shown by the accord which now the general opinion of the country, which felt that the
prevails between them in the management of great Government of Lord Darby, encountering such opposo
transactions, a closer approximation to that entire good tion, ought not to and could not fail without appealing
feeling which was prevalent a year ago, and for a long to the popular sense. (Hear.) That was the general
time prior to that date, and which at present forms a feeling. It required no unconstitutional, no undue ex-
marked contrast to the tune and temper that pervaded ercise of our position and authority to influence the pub-
the two countries when we acceded to office. (Cheers.) lie voice and the division of this house. Public
But, says the noble lord, it is not merely the right hon. opinion was in our favour, because public opinion was
gentleman's Sta.-Merit as to France that requires expla- outraged by the conduct of certain individuals ;to that
nation ; a similar explanation is require las to the et ate- public opinion we appeal, and I believe that it will sup •
meet respecting Sardinia. And following the ingenious port us, notwitstanding such sorry attacks as I have
but not very candid tactics which have characterised met this evening. (Loud and continued cheering.)
the whole construction of this not very terrible Mr. RICH raid the right hon. gentleman had asked
attack, the noble lord sought again to convey to the why the noble lord the member for the City had gone for
Howse of Commons that in what I had said in Bucking- infermation on our foreign relations to Lord Clarendon ;
batusire with regard to Naples and Sardinia I relate- but who so proper to go to on such 'a subject as the
seated that an attempt had been made in this house to late Secretary for Foreign Affairs I He did not regard
- upset her Majesty's Government by encouraging a war the answer of the late Prime Minister to Mr. Griffith, or
between theme two countries. Now, that is net true. I the cbange in the French embassy, as forming the
don't, of come, use that word in an offensive sense ; 1 shadow of a shade of foundation fur the right hon.
only mea
nnthout to say that
ent the noble
relordtcti has got
lau upgh ins gentleman's assertion with regard to the alleged innarges i suffici care d fion. (A ) ininency of a war with France. He considered the
The tact is exactly the reverse of what be alleges. I did right hon. gent Oman's statement was, in fact, a most
not assert that the House of Commons bad endeavoured
by exciting a war between Sardinia and Naples, to over- unjustifiable attack both on England and on France ;and it would ill become oa' house to rest satisfied with
turn or inconvenience the Government. What I said
flimsy
was, that there are persons who did this and who are
n such
gentleman and irrelevant excuses as the right hon
had given. (Laughter from the ministerial
trying to do it at this moment. (Hear, hear.) I entirely benches.) The right hon. gentleman said that be bad
avoided it, beatute I felt it would be unjust, to lay this to
praised the house; but, in point of fact, he ban only
the charge of the House of Commons. On the contrary,
when the attempt is made, as I have no doubt it will be, praised those who supported him ; and when he talked
and when the inabout a cabal, was be prepared to recommend her Adana
certain degree influx of these arch-intriguers may to
jesty to reinstate Lord Ellenborough ? If the debate
be felt in this assembly, I shall again
appeal on the part of her bad gone on, it would have been shown that the right
Majesty's Ministers to the has. gentleman was more guilty than even the noble
sense and spirit of the House of Commons, and even of earl who had been made his victim; for the right hen.
those who are opposed to our general policy, for their gentleman had himself, without consulting the noble
support to enable the Government to prevent the break-
in earl, his colleague, divulged the cont-nte of the de-
g out of hoetilities between those two Italian States.
spateb, and thus rendered its publication necessary. It
(Cheers.) The noble lerd represents that I have gone
the countr down was the right hon, gentleman himself who bad canned
to country was attack and malign the House of
Co the resignation which Lord Ellenborough had so ma;-
the Now, is it no: true that when I aliuded to
naitimouely tendered, and which the right hon. gen la-
the late great debate, on which the fate of the Ministry man bad, with such questionable taste, copied. (Hear.)
seemed to hang, I called the attention of England to the Sir G. C. LEWIS said it was with great reluctance
extraordinary fact that, while the vote of censure upon that he made any observation upon tee speech of the
the Government was undergoing full discussion, and right hoe. gentleman, but being the only person con-
when that vote had , xpanneet under the marvellous and , nected with the late Government present [a great num-
feliciteus handling of the learned knight for Aylesbury ber of members had left the house iaatLediately after
on the last evening of debate into one of general want of Mr. Disraeli's speech], he felt it his duty not to let some
confidence, night after night this " weak Government," of the obserl ations wnich had fatten from the right hn.
this Government placed upon its trial, was defended by gentleman pass without notice. The right hon.
the first men in this assembly, the first men in autho- man's observations consisted mainly in denying the ac-
rtty, in intellect, and in elequence, not connected with curacy of the report of his speech which hal appeared in
them in politics, not bound to them by any ties of peli- the newpapers.
tical co-operatien or association—by men speaking from The CHANCELLOR of ttle EXCHEQUER—I beg
their earnest convictions and lending their high :tattle •
city, unbiassed a your pardon. What I objected to was the lannuane
rid uniefluenced, to the maintenaecn of
attributed to me by tne noble lord. I'do not at all gees-
truth and the defea .of a cabal ? (Cheer.,.) Was that AU troll the accuracy of the reports.
atteck upon the honour,or upon the conduct of the House
of Sir G. LEWIS ventured, from his reco'lecticn of the
Commons ? Was it not a public declaration on the
reports of the spech ipa to arm et
part of her Majesty's Government that they had full hie noble friend'es versionthe wasnews morepers, accurateffithanth the
confidence in the generous justice of the Houle of Coin- I account given of it by the right hon. gentleman hirntelf.
Moos—that conker-nee which they sti 1 reran ? And it net was the delib _rate statement which he (Sr G.
le iu the spirit of that confi fence that I trust I shalt be ' Lewis) made in that house. (Rear, hear.) With regard
able, ails my colleagues, to beffit those intrigues which to what the right hon. gentleman had said w:th respect
I know are already commenced to inconvenience, if pus- to Oude, he (S rG. Lewis) begged to say that what the
einle, her Majesty's Government. (Cheers.) But the neble right hon. gentleman had condemned was a policy of
lord tells us tie was extremely surprised—and this Mee massacre and extermination. He had a distinct recut-
'demanded explanation—at the observations I made re- lection that the word "massacre" was used. (II ar,
specting our policy towards the people of India. He hear.) Now he (Sir G. Lewis) claimed for the late U
setts J. stated that we had prevented a polity of einernin vsrnment a p ilicy of clemency and mercy so far as juttiee
nation in India, that we our-elves were oppo ed to that to our own countrymen would permit. (Hear.) The
policy, and that I had attempted to convey to the coon- popular objecti in to the policy ef Lord Canning, which
try that those who are our co,„petitur, for lower were polcy bad received the approbation of the late Govern-
in favour of extertoiliati.in. N„,,, sir, neither in td meet, was that it wee a weak policy, that it erred too much
lunette nor in the county e f Buckingliain,
nor in ally on the side of lenity, and that his administration of justice
other place, have I ever heard the word ~ eittermiliat was not sufficiently severe. lii was at a loss to ueder-
Lion" uttered. But with that ingenious sprit of ; or- stand the panegyric which the right hon. gentleman had
version and that d -at rises tone of exajgeration which pronounced upon himself for having repudiated the
have to-night dietingunheil the somewhat penurious is-- imaginary policy of confiscation (Rear.) As to this
vective of the noble lord, and which have led him to country and France being within a few hours of a' r,
state that I went into the country to vilify the Roue of
when the late Government left office they were w Lolly
C 'minims, when in truth I offered it the sincere homage ignorant of the danger in which the right hon. gen•ltnian
of my reepect, he has here again distorted what ea, a said the country was ['diced. (Rear, hear.) Toe diviti, n
Mere declaration of our hostility to a policy of confitca- by which the late Government were put out of office took
tion into an accusation that our opponents were in them by surprise—(a laugh) —they were not aware that
favour of a policy of e xtermination. (Cheers.) I s iid our relations with France were of a menacing Med.
in Buckinghatnebire what I have said in this house more
than once, and what I am at all times d to I.7edenbtedly there was a streng feeling in this churn-
prepartup- try with reference to the cxereesions which had been
hell ;we that we
iarefaveur opp teeofd toa a
`policy of cool:inane:l—
used by officers of the French army, and ietted
that are n peeey of diseneonetive in the Moreiteur, and which it was thought had not
amnesty, of a p I,cy teat will respect the religioti, en- been sufficiently disavowed ; but to say that there wae
spect the property, and treat with a decent and due re- any, uch misunderetandieg between tbe two governments
regard the right's and cu toms of the natives of Intl in. I as threatened this country with an imminent war
regret to have again to reiterate these sentiments, but it was, in his opinion, one of the grossest miwepreeenta-
is forced upon mo by the unseemly attack of the noble ti ns which a responsible minister had ever attempted to
lord, which prevents us from going into committee of impose upon the house and the country. (Hear) II a
supply. (Hear, hear.j But, continued the noble hoe!, denied it ie the most positive manner, and was satisfied
all these unauthoriztd observations on foreign affairs that the right hon. gentleman would find himself utterly
and lodic policy subside into nothing eempared wi h the unable to produce any evidence in supp .rt of his assert
tine institutitnal declaration of the Ministerto his cur- tion. The only fragment or attempt at prief which I e
stituent, that if Perliament had net supported them a had been ah'e to produce was the answer made by Lord
dissolution would have been the ceneeptenew N,, r, ea 1 nertton to nine GI ifilth, when he asLed what wee
the nnble lord iney rad toy speech again, and peili ips undoubtedly a somewhat indiscreet question at that
he will favour lee with the passage in which that static- moment. L rd Palmerston had declined to answer that
ment is made. (Laughter.) He began by boldly de- question, and had said that if such questiene, pointing
tiering that I had informed my constituents that if on a personally at the Emperor of the French, and impugn-
the majerity tad gone against the Ministry there would ing his vetacity and good faith, were to be put from day
have been a diseolution of Parliament. At the esid of to-day in that house, it wou'd be likely to lead to mie-
his addrese he told us it', was very unconstitutional he-
understanding, and perhaps war, between the two coun-
been successful o,there probably would have been" a
dissolution. Well, that second version of m negotiations, or to anything that bad passed between the
y statement two Governments. (Hear.) He thought that the ques-
makes the matter not quite so unconstitutional as the lien of India was in a very grave state; but lie was per-
firer. All I can say is that I made CO such declare- fectly contented to take his share of responsibility for
tion as the noble lord has described, and that what I having supported the motion of Mr. Cardwell. He
did Fay on that soh dot was so guarded and so cenetitu believed that that motion was founded upon perf-ctly
tional--(latightet)—that I think it is the right of any good and defensible principles. Notwithstanding all gentleman to allude to such a contingency as not iinpoo that had passed he retained the opinion that the
corn-
Bible or even improbahlt. (Oliver'.) No positio i, however position of Lord Eilenborough's deepatch, and the pub-
reeponeibie, which any individual may oectipy, can po - lication of that secret despatch in the way in ch it 1 sibly deprive him of the privilege of making a reference bad been done in that house, was a great offsncew,hi which so guarded in its terms that no man can fairly torture it justly deserved the urfevourable notice of the house.
into an absolute declaration from a Minister of the The announcement of the motion had had at least one
I believe, literally this— good effect—it had produced the resignation of Lord
Crown. What I stateil wan
" If, ae might have Leon the caee, wo hail found ourselves Ellenhorieugb. fir i ee e .
the acoeptauce
f of hie reriguatien by the Prime Minieter,
tier, ....LIS wavier:ewer from efline, and upon the hustings, I should have appealed will' coil!-
and I have no doubt the was soleranackuowledgment of the justice of the cen
donee again to your support,
verdict of the country would have been given in 'stir sure whichTi the house wag Mohnen to [MIS upon his act i. (Hedatoon)Le ie subsequent
favour," (Cesare.) But the noble lord went into many
publ•cation of the secret corn s-
and Sir James Outrano
precedents against the policy of a dissolution, and be told pon t • between Lord Canning
us that in 1852 he bad never counselled the Q teen when —renderedhiinreojtssa(ry,he admitted, by the previous irll-
he was in a minority to dissolve Parliament, IVO, it properpu aion l Lord Ellenborough'is despatch, was
would have been av. ry bold thing if he had-0 laugh) attended with. grave. inconvenience for many reasons,
ci_ciespsit.3o3uotfratre
_fer the liable lord had then, I think, been six years in On no preemie occasion bad a correspondence of tbat
office, and be had several intimations that the House of natero heensub.iiniaitrtreeddttootrhuophporuessee.aiSlirti:Teat
Commons wanted to get rid of him. (Laughter.) Mere- was distinctly
over, he had resigned a year before, and the Parliament proclamation • (-1
its original form ; hut
the ...nee,
at that time had been elected under his own atiepicon. proclamation badii
been laid ou the table of thidehntical
(Cheers.) That a Minister who has enjoyed the high pii- and would thus be made public to all India. (Rear,
vilego of having a Parliament elected under his own awn production of hear.) He could not but think that the
picas, who finds that Parliament so docile that it sup- that correspondence wasi li
it the government wouldg havei
la
gan a, ravation of the ori ' ' I
i'
Perts him for five years, and though, when its pvier.ce offence. He had hoped t
at last in quite txtau-tee, it centpels him to ro-ign, y t been able tp annsutice the appointment et a reepentib'e
by the moat ferton Ate ceinhisatien of luck in the wot lil minister to preside over the Beard Of Control ;'but'that.
evening,
him a renewal of l
that ever fell to the lot of a Minieter, it is willing to ko•vo etopectation hail not been patiefitd that „ Lord
os lease for another 12 months—that Ellenburough, ho presumed, held office only until hie
a Minieter in such a unreasonable to
position should at the end of six successor was appointed ; it would be . .
years claim the applause of the House of Commons and ask for any explanation of policy from him, or to inqture
the approbation of the country because he did not tells° what were the • tentions of the government until that
upon himself to adviee her Majesty to dissolve Pa lie was .
office we
filled."' As soon as this was done, he hoped to
ment appears tome once! the most remarkable instances hear from the President of the Board of Control, if a
of self-complacency which the annals of ' produce. (Laughter and cheery. this nation can member of that house, or from come other member of the
) But though the noble government, a distinct statement of what they intended
an I though he had txhaust:td'hiet of
a di,
-
lord Was evidently very sere oil this
to do with the territ wy of Oude.
solution,
. DS adroit perversions in whichhissn
ghee" bild
by the prem.: .
an Mr. M. GIBSON—We seem to be in a somewhat un-
indulced, yet he his theme advancel he Could
not, settled state, and I shall not venture to intrude my opi-
from the eatural candour of his dieposition, beep nion upon the house as to the cause of the uneasiness
admitting that neither in this_
ann_rnidn tahhe.ohther house had which exists; but I may be permitted to notice the
there been any declaration of kind
renew ks of the right hon. gentleman who spoke last with
debate or theledivci7mbel."A"e"e- respect
stitutionally influence the
to the publication of the coirespondence between
here the col 1, lord spoke only the truth. Neither in the the Givernor-Gerieral and Sir James Outran). The
House of Lords nor in the House of Commons can it be right hon. gentlemen objected to the production of that