The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-18 00:00:00

1858.

Governrnen t had worked Una had been by contire;i•
ally substituting the slaves who had died for thoie
who would have become emancipated, thus again evad-
in; the conditions of the treaty. He thought be had
row brought the case to this point, end this viclation of
treaties was not the consequence of a weak Go.ernrnent
overborne by a popular movement, but was the direct
act of the Government itself ; and it was the act of
the Government, not from any desire to develope the
resources of the country, but in order that certain
persons might have reserved to them the means of f:ain-
ing wealth through the miseries of the Afticitn pi orle.
Re would now turn to lot-Aber side of the subject. Was
this a state of things which Great Britain, in tie five of
the world, could honestly and lawfully allow to continue t
He conidered that we were bound to see that this evil
was stopped, and that the condition of these treaties
were enforced. We were bound to this curse, first of
all by our duty to our colonist!e in the West India Is-
lands, because by that act, which we should always stig-
rnati,e as unjust, by which tbeduty on sugar from sla,-e
and ft ee countries was equal bed, we had entered into an
obligation with our c,louies that they shooll not be
ca lid upon to c,n+pete with cAintries which import--d
slaves in the teeth of treaties. Again, the people of this
country were taxed to a great aneouot to maintain a •
squadron on the coast of Africa to intercept slavers. It
was a noble use to which to apply morey ; but they had
no right to do that, and at the same time to allow by
breach of treaties the evil to be created. There was here
au inconsistency which went fartodawage our fair name,
and led other countries to suppose that we had some
other secret motive for maintaining the squadron on the
coast of Africa, because they said if our real object was
to step the slave trade why did we suffer a state like
Spain to laugh in our face and violate treaties ? There
was another reason, a great moral conricleral,ion. No na-

tion had a right to undertake the championship c•f the
afflicted and then shrink from the labour and the danger.
We hail no right to put ourselves forward to the world
as the suppressors of the slave trade unless we were pre-
pared honestly and firmly to enforce those treaties for its
suppression which onr allies had made with us. There
was another view of the subject to which it wai imp,—
sible not to allude. Remember for a single moment the
position of the island of Cuba with regard to a or, at
neighbouring country, the United States, and see ho
inefitable it was that the condition of things which we
had so long suffered to exist must add to the danger cf
hostile feeling and acts which might end most unhapi,ily.
Remember that the people cf that country are the inhe-
ritors of our blood, that they have our own blood for the
sea, our own jealousy for thc national honour and the na-
tional flag ; remember that we could not carry on the
operations which wirwere told we were carryir g on,
not with the ships ofthat nation, at least wi-h the ships
sailing under the flag of that ❑ation, without exciting
jealousy—remember the unsettled state of the right of
search, and see how with such a feeling the intemperance
of a single commander in carrying too far the right we
claimed of seeing whether a snip was of was not entitled
to carry the American flag—see how this state of things
might involve all in a common lulls. Be said a common
ruin, because a war between this country and the United
States would be fatal to the advancement of the human
race, to the advancement of anything like rational
liberty, tr the advancement of anything like civilisatio❑
and the welfare t f mankind. But suffering Cuba to be a
slave-importing state must, in the nature of things, be a
continual provocative to war. If happily Spain woull
follow the example set by Portugal which, by using her
influence, had induced the Brazilian Government to
aoolish the slave trade in that country—if Spain would
act up to the treaties to give to these imported Africans
the liberty which, under treaty, they would now possess
—she would take away the desire which now existed in
certain parts of the United States to annex Cuba for cer-
tain purposes of the federation. We had, therefore, in
this way a call which no nation could possibly disregard.
We were bound in the face of Europe, and i❑ the face of
the world, to suffer these treaties no linger to be a dead
letter, and to require onr Government to use every means
at its command to compel the equivocating Government
of Spain to fulfil its treaties. (dear.) .

Lord BROUGHAM said itshould be remembered that
Spain bad received nearly half a million of money as a
consideration for entering into these treaties, which
she had systereratically violated. His right rev, friend
had alluded to a delica,e sui jest—the hazard of war with
the United States, which we avoided by insisting upon
Spain acting up to her engagement-% The fire bell
which broke their slumbers might prevent their being
burned in their beds, and that was how he regarded this
warning. Therefore he would call the attention of our
Government, of the Spanish Government, and of the
French Government to the bounden duty of them al to
stop the slave trade. It was sometimes said that the
United States had an interest in the slave trade. They
had no interest in it ; not one of those states imported
slaves. If the system of corruption whic.i prevailed iu
the Cel,an Government were put an end to—and that
might be done—one of the greatest difficulties in the
settlement of the question would be removed, so far as
regarded this country and America. We ought to he
perfectly candid with our American brethren. They
soul I not allow the right of search during peace, for the
right of search was belligerent and utterly unknown in
time of peace. The law of nations not only declared that
the right of eearoh did not exist exe, let during war, but
it stated that there is no difference between one ewe
and another—that the smallest state has the same right
to of j,2ct to the right of search as was possessed by
France, England, or America. He had nu hesitation in
Keying that he believed the question would eventually be
sa.tistactor ly arranged, and it would be arranged the
more satislactorily the more we kept up a friendly in-
tercourse with whom we had to continue the discussion.
That the matter might be arranged by Spain being ceded
epou to do her duty and perform ber obligations was a
thmsunemation devoutly to be wished. He could not con-
clude his remarks without briefly referring to a matter
which had recently ex,ited some attention. There could
be no doubt that the slave trade was carried on under
the colour of exporting or carrying free negroes, as they
were called, across the Atlantic. In a recent case, out of
a cargo of 350 not less than 35 died in the course of 10
days, and eventually the poor negroes who remained
rose upon the crew and mut derel the whole of them ex-
cept one,
Earl GREY—Killed.
Li ,r 3 BROUGHAM said his noble friend was per-
fectly right. The negroes " killed" the whole crew ex-
cept one man, and some parties were disposed to com-
plain of the exception. (Hear, hear.) lie believed a
great mistake had been committed by our nc.t, havin;
taken more precaution for establishing a better mode of
communication between ourselves and the African
chiefs, some of whom were men of great capacity and
power, and wholly opposed to the slave trade, looking
upon it with abhorrence, and wishing to see useful com-
merce greatly extended. But instead of increasing dur-
ing the last eighteen months commerce had consider-
ably diminished. With respect to the petition which had
been presented, be thought the people of Jamaica had a
most just ground of complaint, and trusted that their
complaint would not be overlooked. (Hear, hear )
The Earl of MALMESBURY, who was very indis-
tinctly heard, after complimenting the right rev, prelate
on the hereditary feeling with which he addressed their
lordships on the subject, said he wished other nations
took as great an interest in it as the people of this coun-
try. But be regretted to say that we were not aided as
we could wish to be aided by other nations, and this was
one of the great difficulties with which we had to con-
tend. The right rev, prelate had with great justice
blamed the Spanish Government for its continued
breaches of treaty and its cruelties to the natives of
Africa. If all the despatches that had been written
by the English Government to Spain were wove
together he believed they would almost reach fir nn
this country to Cuba. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
It would not be fair to infer that the failure which
bad taken place was the fault of the British Govern-
ment. And he thought it right to state that Minis-
ter after Minister had done his best to induce Spain
to perform her duty, but, unfortunately, had not suc-
ceeded. Spain badtaken a course the most eifficult in
the world to overcome—that of passive resistance. The
right rev. prelate must recollect that a foreign minister
could not entirely act upon those feelings which he pos-
messed as an Eegiishinari. The fee:legs of other nations
who did not view the matter in the same light, and who
did not take the same strong views as ourselves, must
be attended to, and a minister was often uhab'e to act
with the vigour he might othereise be disposed to exer-
cise. A great relaxation of feeling had taken place with
respect to the principle of slavery itself ; but there wits
not a general agreement on the principle laid down by
the noble and learned lord. No doubt we had no right
in time of peace, according to ieternatienal law, to carry
out the right of search ; but there might be established
a sort of ocean police. Some parties bad refused to admit
that principle, asserting that for no suspicion should a
ship carrying the American flag be boarded or detained
except at the risk of the parties so boarding and detain-
ing ber. Attempts had been made to obtain from all civil-
ised nations some kind of agreement by which all officers
might know exactly how far they should g r in cases of
suspicion, and be protected in cases of mistake. In that
we had been anticipated by the French government who
laid down this law, that in time of peace no French ship
should be detained or searched, or boarded, but that
certain forms should be gone through without detaining
her, which to a certain but very small t vent would
ena le them to ascertain her nationality and her right
'o carry the fig. He could not admit the position lard
down by the American minister, unless it should be for-
tified by the opinions of the law officers of her Majesty's
Government, that if the American flag was to have per-
feet immunity, every pirate and every slaver on the
face of the sea would carry that flag and no other, thee
dishonouring that country and prostituting its flag to
the worst and basest purposes. (Hear.) He thought
formed
it very desirable that an ocean police should be
—that there should be some agreement among states
as to how far they sh.iuld he alowed to go for the pur-
pose of ascertaining a vessel's nationality. From the
conversations be had had with the American minister
in this country, and also from the
Case,
observations con-
ained in an able paper written by General he was
not with,ut strong hopes that some arrangementement that
kind
would be come to with the United States, which
would give the officers of both countries the means
of verifying a flag without running the risk
of giving offence. He thought their lordships
would not require him to go into the general
political
difficulties attending suppression of the slave
rude, As he said before, the English Minister was
ften unable fully to carry out his sentiments, and was
obliged to defer in some respects to the opinion of
others. He thought we bad committed a great mistake
in sending a squadron to the Cuban waters instead of I
the African coast. He had been informed by Admiral
Fenshawe, who was about to take the command of the
'Nlediterranean fleet, that at the beginning elf the Rue-
sian war the slave trade was nearly xtinguished—
that
in the first year of his command on the African coast
his squadron captured fifty-four slavers, that in the
following year they captured frity, and that in the
third year the number was reduced to two or three.

He te f.,ll6Wed by Admiral Bruce, who stated trot
number was infinitesimally small. But during the
Russian war the greater part of our squadron was with.
drawn from the African coast, and in the course of
those two years the slave trade made considerable pro-
gress. He had already referred to the number of
despatches which had been written to Spain, who,
notwiihstaeding the assistance she bad received from
this country, had not evinced the least gratitude. The
su.picions and fears of Spain with regard to Cuba were
always directed to the United State. ; and it had been the
policy of this country to defend that island against any ho.a
s.
tile invasion. But he did not hesitate to say in his place l
that house that if Spain should continue to show theutter
wantof principle—the utterand base ingratitude—which
she had always displayed towards this country, she must
expect amity to be exchanged for indifitrence, and in-
stead of our taking her part she must expect to suffer
whatever consequences might ensue from her conduct.
(Hear.) With respect to the case which the noble and
learned lord (Brougham) had referred, the facts w re Ae
he bad stated them. During the absence of the captain
and a portion of the crew the remaining porlion were
killed, with the exception of one individual. An E eglish
vessel having heard of the disaster, chased the eater,
who gave herself up without offering any resistance.
She was taken into the Liberian waters. The F, ench
authorities claimed the ship, and took her on: of the
Liberian waters. It appeared e e were not justified it%
taking this slaver into Liberian waters without an
order or permission from the authorities. Wha' ever
quarrel there may be is between Liberia and the French
Government, and her Majesty's Government had no•
thing to do with the matter. It would be his duty to
protest to the French Government against the coutee
which they were pursuing, which, although it appeared
to be a system of immigration, coal only be cons tiered
a renewal of the slave trade. (biter )
The Eat! of CARLISLE expressed his horror ht
the system of slavery carried on in Cuba, of which he
had been an eye-witness. The suppression of the Flare
trade must be carried on with reference to changes and
circumstances. Care should be taken not to exceed the

limits of our well-defined ;igli;and duties, nor to inter-
fere with the general rights of otbers. But he hit bound
to express his opinion that, in the long run, the people -
of this country, who had done so much for the sup-
pression of the slave trade, would not adopt a retrograde
course ; and he rejoiced co hear that there was a pros-
pec', of a satisfactory solution of the dispute between tbie
country and America. (Hear.)
Lord WODEROUSE said, however much it might
have been our duty to put an end to the slave trade, he
doubted whether it was wise to embark in a speculation
for suppressing the slave trade, as carried on in the ships
of other countries. But having done so, he did not
mean to eay that they ought now to abandon that course.
He rejoiced to hear of the course which had been taken
with regard to the United States, and had no doubt that
the greatest exaggerations had appeared in the American
papers as to what had bee❑ done by the officers of our
cruisers. But be would put it to their lord hips to
oon,ider what v•ould be the feeling of the people of
this country it there wal an armed squadron in the
Channel stopping and searching our outward-
bound vessels ; whatever might be the reason for

doing so by a foreign power it would cause a disagreeable
fe&ling in this country. He felt convinced that the
moderate course pursued by her Majesty's Government
would tend to calm the existing excitemen.:, and cau4e
some agreement to be o ,me to on the subject. But her
Majesty's Government should consider how far it was

advisable that we should from time to time be liable to

ernbrdil ourselves with a foreign power, which disagree-
ments, however we might be able to accommodate them.
were very inconvenient, He regretted to hear what the
noble earl, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, bad said
with regard to the French immigration of negroes. He
had hoed that the French Government would have re-
considered that matter. He agreed that it was neither
mere nor less than the stave trade, and be hoped that
the remonstrances of her Majeity's Government would
have eff, et. This was a proof of the diffleulty that existed
in dealing with foreign governments in this matter ; fcr
there was no disguising the fact that other nations did
not Im.k with the same abhorrence on the slave trade

as we in this country did. There was one point which bad
not been touched on which he was anxious to bring

be'ore the notice of the house, and that was our present
relations with Brazil with reference to the slave trade-
and our treaties on the subject. There was in ex-
ieteece an act, called Lord Aberdeen's Ant, by which
this country was precluded from entering into any
commercial treaty with Brazil during the continuance of
the :1 ,ve trade. No doubt that measure bad induced the
Brazilian Government to act with energy in the matter,
and had raised a public opinion against the slave trade in
that country ; but he thought it would be a wi-e policy to
repeal that act, and to enter into a slave trade treaty and
at the same time a commercial treaty with Brazil, and
generally to modify the policy which was rightly adopted
souse years ago, but which altered circumstances no
leuger required. lie was told that the general trade on
the African coast had greatly diminished ; a fact which
would be productive of fatal results in reference to the
advance of civilisation in that country. He had always
ished not only to put an.end to the slave trade but to
increase the legitimate trade on the African coast which
was a large aud increasing trade, and carried civilisation
and Cbrietiani y in its wake.
Earl GREY entirely concurred with his noble friend
who hal just eat down with regard. to the extreme ime
pertance of the trade with the African coat, as the
means of civilising and Christianising that country. But
he must remind him that it was the opinion of every one
acquainted with the subject, and especially of Dr. Living-
stone, that the legitimate trade could not go on until the
slave trade was put an end to. Legitimate commerce was
destroyed by the slave trade, and it was only by the inter•
fcrence of tt,is country that it could be put an and to. The
true le&itimare trade was increasing, and great hopes had
been entertained that the slave trade would be put down.
But that bright prospect had been blighted, and that by
t No great countries—the United States of America and
France. Ile would assert boldly, and without fear of con-
tradiction, that in the eyes of God and man the United
States and France were responsible for the renewal of
the Alric in slave trade. With regard to the United
States, he concurred in the opinions which had boon ex-
pressed of the necessity of our acting with the greatest
caution and forbearance. However indignant we might
feel at the monstrous prostitution of the United States'
flag, it was not only our duty but true wisdom—having
regard to the object in view—to remain rigidly within
the line of cur duty, and not to put ourselves
in tree wrong. But he could not help thinking that his
noble friend who spoke lose attached too much credit to
the American accounts of what had occurred, which had
not yet been checked by those of our owe officers, and
that we were acting too hastily. His noble friend spoke
of an American squadron in the Channel overhauling
our outwar I bound vessels. No doWet we should not
allow that for a moment, and he doubted whether we
had ever consented to the right of search. Our orders
to our eflicere were, if they knew that a ship was bona
fide a vessel belong'ng to the United States, though she
might he engaged in the slave trade, though there was
proof legal and moral that she was a slaver, the orders
to our cruisers were not to interfere with her ; but we
hal a treaty with Spain ag einet the slave trade, and we
were not to be prevented in the ca=e of a ship corning
out of Cuba, though under the United States flag, from
aseeta.ining whether she was a United States ship or
whether she was
was Span eaishcarsegen ly a pirateshenotti,or.whether; in b
hrotlnae:
papers at all, and
case only we claimed a right to visit a vessel, and to see
what she really tear ? It she had American papers, we
dischareted her, and left to the United States the dis-
grace of being engaged in suet is traffic. But io order
t r 118C-otain whether a flag was properly carried by a
vessel we must have the right to visit. At the Came
time ho hoped that the orders to our cruisers would be
strict not to visit ships against Ns hich there was not
strong prima facie evidence that they had no right to
use the American flag. Great discretion ought to be
exercis• d, and if it was not exercised officers who failed
in that respect ought to be recalled. With regard to
France the case was stronger. That a great Ceretian
nation, that the great Emperor of Frarce should be a
gigantic slave dealer, was a fact almost too disgraceful
to be believed ; but so it was. We knew that it warn
with reference to the ship which was captured by ne-
groes. We knew that wars were stirred up in Africa
in order that prisoners might be taken for the purpose
of being acid to the French Government. France was
amenable in the eyes of God and wall fur destroying
legitimate commerce with Africa. It was known
that negroes were brought down to the coast and put on
board vessels commanded by French officers. In the
case in question the slaves rose, and did not murder,
but in the exercise of a sacred right, the w
e attempth to re.
cover their liberty, kiled the crew of the veesel he
h.
ship
r%vasinir ltilleer powertyby force.
of the
negr"9'
they
having
toh
112.aYv—edTtlbreuytmcould not
maTnhaegeEtbarelsboif, AuluAd L UuualrEvSeE,Bsel
saved
ly right, but what he
thought
Earl GREY—
p board,to lb! t wbeseri done should have been to
p:lt iands u
and take the ship to Sierra Leone.
ioognht
The Earl of MA
LMESBURY—She was in Liberian
waters Earl G
,
aßEV—Neither the authorities of Liberia, nor
and it could not be done.
any one else, bad a right to interfere with the possession
the negroes, which they had de facto and
dofe raeres,hainp by d
if we had sent her to any port they chose
to go to, no one could have had any right to object. He
hoped that poor Liberia would not he brought into the
quarrel. Wo were bound to give these negroes all the
assistance in our power, without iequiring into the
nationality of those who, by an act of piracy, had taken
poesession of them.
•The Earl of ABERDEEN said that the instructions
to our officera, unless they bad been changed, were
drawn up under his superintendence ; and when they
were communicated to the 'American Government they
were approved by Mr. Webster and the Government of
the day ; and he believed that our officers were now
acting on those instructions. If that was the case, he
was at a loss to comprehend what were called British
outrages on American ships. We made no claim to
visit or to search any American vee.sel, slayer or other-
wise ; and it was only in cases where our cruisers had
well-feunded suspicions that a vessel was not an Aineri-
can that they had a right to visit her. That rule was
laid down by his noble friend with perfect accuracy,
according to the instructions he (Lord Aberdeen) caused
to be drawn up under the direction of Sir George
Cockburn, Dr. Lushington, and others acquainted
with international law. They were then certainly
approved by the American Government, and he did
not know what new circumstances bad arisen to clause
difficulties in those waters. If our officers obeyed_
iceiruclions it was impossible that therrthereonu could
be any
oot hear thaty
such difficulty, and he hoped he shoal
can Government had no
cient for the purpose, the Ameri _h
those instructions had been changed. They were sue.
could be no dificulty. For when our
caution there
01 jection to them, and if they were only acted on wit
bad a suspicion that a vesse
can flag wag WA an American, the officer! were hued
l
cruisers bearing the Alneri.