The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-02 00:00:00

2, 1858.

attempt had come on his life or security. In such a case I Conspiracy to Murder Bill has been better understood.
the iuj ured friend would say :" An attempt has been made i My noble friend, the Lord Chief Justice, described the bill
upon my life ; I know that you did not wish it SUCCCEI3; as an important ame .dment of the criminal law ; he, how-
and lam sure you will do all in your power to prevent its ever, approved of it, and expressed his hope that their
repetition." What would your lordships have tho'ught of lordships would pass it when it came to their house. It
the person so addressed were he to reply, "lam s wry that was never disguised that the object of the late government
I
these people have attempted to kill you, but you must take was to check these conspiracies against the Emperor of the
care of yourself, and, as you presume to allude to them, French, but beyond that it does not go. When the true
I can tell you that nothing shall induce me to alter my character of that bill comes to be considered, lam greatly.
domestic regulations." Clotho it how you will such was mistaken if the upright and generous people of this oonn-
substantially the answer which her Majesty's late Go- try will see any humiliation in supporting the passing of
vornment was required to return to Count Walewski's this bill. (Cheers.)
despatch. lam aware that after the vote of the House of Lord ST. LEONARDS made a few observations, but in
Commons my noble friend opposite will not write such n so low a tone that hardly a word reached the gal ery. So
despatch. (A laugh.) I could almost write the despatch far as could be understood, he appeared to be stating that
myself. I did not answer it, and I say "I" because I con- his chief reason for declining the Chancellorship was the
eider that on me rests the responsibility of not answering want of physical strength.
more than upon any member of the Government. Why did LORD CAMPBELL AND THE LATE ATTORNEY-
we not answer it? We felt that great allowance was to be GENERAL.
made for the feeling that was universal iu France, stagger- Lord CAMPBELL begged their lordships' attention for
ing as she was in her escape from an imminent danger. a very few minutes in his own justification, without attack-
We wished to avoid going into any unnecessary centre- ing any person whatever. It was necessary that he should
versy, and we thought we should better exhibit our sym- do so, because his character as a judge had been assailed.
pathy with Franca by considering what our course should It had been supposed that he had in that house given an
be, without attending to any of the nonsense which was be- opinion respecting causes which were, or might shortly be,
ing talked or written on the subject. It would have been depending before him. If he had done that, he should
easy—the opportunity was, as it has been said, tempting have done what would have been most reprehensible. But
—to have written a despatch which would have made a he had only done tha which he considered his duty to do
good figure in the blue book, and have used that despatch he had given his opinion upon an abstract question of law.
as the justification of a restrictive measure. But we were Unless he could do so, for what purpose had he a Seat in
not anxious to figure in a blue book, and, besides, to make their lordships' house? That practice had been adopted
our answer to Count Walewski satisfactory, it was neces- by the most illustrious of his predecessors. With respect
ware that it should be true, and that we should be able to to another question, viz., the taking notice of what took
disprove his assertions. Now, I assert that they could not place in the other house of parliament, he agreed that, ea
be disproved, and for this simple reason, that they were a general rule, such a practice should be abstained from ass
true. (Hear.) Count Walewski says : "It was in Eag- one most inconvenient. But there were exceptional cases,
lend that Pianori formed the plan of striking the Elope- and such a case bad arisen. Looking to what was stated
ror ;it was from London that, in an affair, the recellec- in the public journals as having been laid down for law in
tion of which, is still recant, Mazzini, Ledru Rollin, and the case of aliens, and believing that such statements would
Campanella directed the assassins whom they had furnished have the most mischievous consequences, he had felt it
with arms. It is there, also, that the authors of the last his duty to contradict the statement which had been made.
plot have leisurely prepared their means of action, have He was bound to believe that the hon. gentleman to whose
studied and constructed the instruments of destruction speech he referred did not intend his speech to be andel,.
which they have employed ; and it is from thence that stood in the manner in which it had appeared in the pule-
they set out to carry their plans into execution " And lire journals, but from this speech, as reported, mischievous
then proceeds to say :—" But, M. le Comte, how diffe- consequences would not unprobably have followed. He
rent is the attitude of the skilful demagogues established (Lord Campbell) could only say that he was recommended
in England. It is no longer the hostility of misguided by some of the judges of the land, and by other persons ip.
individuals, manifesting itself by all the excesses of whom he placed great confidence, to take the earliest op-
the press and all the violences of language ; it is no portunity of stating what the law was, and he had accord-
longer even the work of the factious, seeking to rouse ingly done Po.
opinion and to provoke disorder ;it is assassination Lord BROUGHAM entirely concurred with what had
elevated to doctrine, preached openly, practised in fallen from the noble lord. If other opinions were correct,
repeated attempts, the more recent of which has just struck then no member of their lordships' house—for they con-
Europe with amazement. Ought, then, the rights of stituted the ultimate court of appeal—ought to give an
asylum to protect such a state of things? Is hospitality due opiuion on a question of law.
to assassins ? Ought the English legislation to contribute to THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
favour their designs and their plans, and can it continue The Earl of DERBY said he was informed that the
to shelter persons who, by their flagrant acts, place them House of Commons had adjourned to Friday week. He
selves beyond the pale of common right, and under the ban therefore proposed that their lordships should adjourn to
of humanity ?" That, my lords, is strong language, but it that day fortnight.—Agreed to.
is literally true. My noble friend answered the question by The house then adjourned at a quarter past 8 o'clock.
saying that we had a law against conspiracy, but it could
not be brought into operation, because there was not suffi-
cient evidence against the perpetrators of the crime. We
have had at one time publications brought under our
notice, which we would have prosecuted but for the insuf-
ficiency of evidence. At anot her time the substance of a
speech advocating the murder of the Emperor has been
transmitted to us in English, but we could not prove the
French words. It was only very lately that a most den-
serous publication was circulated at a meeting, half of the
expenses of which was paid by Bernard, aid as the law
stands we could not approach it. Now, knowing all this,
although Count Walewski did not, how could I as an
honest man say he was mistaken in saying that assassina-
tions were concocted in this country —(hear, hear)—and, on
the other hand, what good purpose could have been served
by admitting the truth of the assertion, and at the same
time expressing our regret that we were unable to grant
any redress? Such being the state of things, I suggested to
my noble friend at the head of the Government that it
would be better to be content with the explanation which
I had offered to M. de Persigny, and not to enter into a
written controversy which might continue that exacer-
bation in France which all friends of the alliance should
wish to see calmed. I said that it would be much better
to wait for the report of the law officers of the Crown,
and see whether a bill could be introduced and passed
through Parliament. We should then have had the
benefit of the debates in Parliament, which would show
to the French Government and the French people to what
extent the people of England were prepared to go, and
beyond which they would not move. I thought then,
and I think now that that was a friendly and cautions
course. Ikn )ve how we were condemned for our silence in
another place, and how Lord Hawkesbury's despatch has
been used against us and set up for a model, but any one
who knows the history of the two periods must be aware
that there is no possible parallel between them. Recollect
that in Lord Hawkesbury's time the First Consul was at
enmity with this country and looking for a pretext to quar-
rel, and, besides, made the most extravagant demands upon
the British Government. On the other hand, Count Wa-
lewski carefully abstained from making any demands on
us, a difference which I wonder did not occur to the House
of Commons. In 1802 the French minister, M. Otto, wrote
to Lord Hawkesbury on the 17th of August, making the
following demands : —First, that effectual means should be
taken to repress the newspaper attacks on the First Consul;
seconds that two French bishops should be sent to Jersey ;
third, that Georges and his adherents should be transported
to Canada; fourth, that the Bourbon family should be re-
commended to repair to Warsaw ; and lastly, that such of
the French emigrants as continued to wear the dechrations
of the old regime should be sent out of the country. (Hear.)
Such conditions required an energetic answer, and Lord
Hawkesbury's answer was certainly energetic; but it must
be remembered that then we had an Alien Act, and neither
is it to be supposed that in consequence of Lord Hawkes-
bury's answer nothing was done. On the contrary the First
Consul, although refused his first demand, the English Go-
vernment declining to take any steps to alter the laws of the
press, obtained apromise of the removal of the bishops should
they attempt to stir up the French people to rebellion. The
British Government also premised the removal of Georges,
and expressed itself quite willing that the Bourbons should
remove to Warsaw, although not prepared to deny thorn the
right of asylum provided they did not disturb the peace of
the country. The trial of Peltier was promised : and with
respect to the emigrants wearing decorations, Lord Ha wkes-
bury said their number was so few as to make them of no
account. Yet that is the despatch which is considered to
have preserved the honour of the country. But, although I
did not send an answer to Count Wale wski's despatch, I
repeatedly and in great detail informed my noble friend,
our ambassador iu Paris, what were our views and opinions
respecting it, what we were able to do, and what we could
not do in reply to it. The French Government were thus
made aware of our views and intentions, and if they had a
desire to invite us to a means which would be repugnant,
to. the honour of England, they were informed confiden-
tially that it would be totally impossible to grant it. The
despatch which had reference to those private letters is
now in the possession of your lordships, but in order to give
your lordships an idea of what these private letters were,
I have referred to them this morning in my letter-book,
and I trust the house will permit me to quote them. On
the 21st January I wrote—" The more I think of the whole
matter the more allowance I make for the feelings of the
French, who believe themselves to be in imminent danger,
aewl that England, if she choose, might put them in safety.
We know that this is not the case, and that we cannot
prevent conspiracies ; but this cannot be understood by
men who are profoundly ignorant of our laws and customs,
and who reason 'respecting England by analogy with other
states, where police regulations and measures of public
safety are always passively submitted to. Such men think
only of their own perils, and of the unfriendly obstinacy of
England in doing nothing for their protection. I have,
therefore, been perfectly frank with M. de Persigny, and
have spoken to him in the sense of what I have written
above. He brought me to-day a despatch from Walewski,
I which hal been seen and approved by the' Emperor. It
was, I think, more moderate in tone, much more so, I
think, than our mut etis mutandis would have been. It is
impossible for any one to behave more loy element and like
a gentleman than M. de Persigny does upon this painful
matter; for while he is in a state of extrema agitation, and
fully shares the feelings of his countrymen respecting the
attentat, ho makes as much allowance for our difficulties
as you or I could do." On January 23d I then wrote:—
" The refugee question has been discussed in every possible
form, and may with truth say that there has been an
earnest desire to do something which will both clear this
country from unjust imputations, and at the same time
give some satisfaction to public opinion in France ; but the
difficulties, when ono comes to the practical point of what
that something shall be, are beyond imagination great, and
everybody agreed that to ask for authority to send away
every or any foreigner when a foreign government may
suspF ct. or say they suspect;, without even adducing any
proof of guilty purpose, is utterly out of the question.
We might just as well ask parliament to annex England
to France." On the 2d of February I wrote .—" A. bill is
to be introduced when parliament meets which will make
conspiracy to murder felony, and you must rely upon it
that if the bill passes it will be amply sufficient for the
purpose, and immeasurably better than if we passed a
power to send away people on suspicion ; for what is to con-
stitute suspicion, or to wake a man suspected ? —a denun-
ciation from the French police ? If so, it is clear that we
should be perpetually asked to send away people on mere
rumour, or perhaps the personal vengeance of spies, and
that the only result would be ill-reeling between the two
governments. Parliament, however, would never grant
such a permission, because, setting aside all other reasons,
it would be inverting the fundamental principles of juris-
prudence in this country, where a man is always considered
innocent until he is proved to be guilty, and weheshoulldd
have to propose that he be considered guilttye until
added :—" What I foresaw haseoicheu! ,
prove himself to be innocent." And ond the 4.h
eFxeeutie.tel.
d grneation caused by tho
merit, or rather, I should say,
th
of the regimental addresses, is
publication in the Mo"hite"ronnt 2
ry. eople here care
universal throe throughout t
are
c
much too free ourselves with our
thing about abuse ;
hard
t words,reat, abnudt
that which no man here c .
ne ko
of
wi resenting
l at a nd
pens and our tonguewsteo think
themselves rather than submit to menace. Now, my
there is no risk or danger to which. Englishmen” will not ex-
pose
lords, it is not my object to trespass on your attention, but
merely to show what were the communto diens which were
made to the French government. Lord Cowley was eon-
writing that despatch, and it was censured by
adl3rmeLeini for
rn
of the House of Commons. Now certainly
there may have heels one or two sentences in that despatch
which I had rather see omitted ; but I thought it better
to lay it on the table entire than merely to give what
would have been called extracts. (Hear, hear.) But that
is a minor question ; the important point is whether the
bsuepdpiespsertolvtehdatbyLtehrde
veryCorde persons
matters contained in that despatch were -true ; and it is
Y w'
hardlywhich could bl
dehitoemthhaet
applied for confirmation, no less persons than the Emperor
bitowwr
and his council of state. I think your lordships cannot
doubt the accuracy of that statement ; and I ask you
whether any rational man, not blinked by party spirit,
could say that in this matter we sated in a way derogatory
tp the - national honour? (sear, hear.) It is now five
years since I received the seals of the foreign department,
and although I am not going to enter into the general ques-
tion of our foreign affairs, I can with confidence say that
during these five years, perhaps the most anxious of the
alliance, the honour of toe coon ry has not been tarnished
in my hands. (Hear, hear.) This bill has been mis' e-
presented ; it has been called an Alien Bill, whereas it i-
uo more an alien than it is an English bel (A laugh )
It has been called a French bill ; wuereas, as I told you,
it was in the laboratory of the law officers before Count
Walewskee despatch was received, and before the ad-
dresses of the French colonels were published in the Meal-
teur. And even at the last moment this errof seems to
have continued, for in the address of Ihe Atternee -Gene-
ral, published this morning, it is said that the bill is " an
invasion of the principle of iedepenc'e it action which has
hithe,o been held wiere I by tees Parliament and the
peeein- -.inn, e-e e n ewy ~,. ~;,) i:1, 1,1,1 •t,,s ; ,; •-.
tirat time iu Lilt) ut.L.,l house, i,utt i 11,,, alter idle ki,,,,p-tch
of. Count Walewski was received, and, it was well
known, had not been answered. Error and tuisrepre-
sentetion, indeed, has followed this bill from the earliest
to the present moment, I rejoice to say that here this

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YEsTERDA.Y.)

The SPEAKER took the chair shortly before 4 o'clock.
Sir J. SHELLEY presented a petition from a place
in Sussex in favour of the Church-rate Abolition Bill.
A singular circumstance immediately afterwards oc-
curred—Sir DE L. EVANS rose to present a petition
from the opposite--thd ministerial—side of the house.
The two members for Westminster, therefore, seem to be
divided.
Ms. Weguelin entered the house at ten minutes past
four, and went to his accustomed seat behind the
ministerial bench. Finding that he was amongst a new
" set," he cast a hasty glance around, and then delibe-
rately walked to the opposite side of the house, amidst
the cheers of his friends.
NEW WRITS.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE moved for the following new
writs, which were ordered,
For North Northumberland in the room of Lord
Lovaine, who has become a Lord of the Admiralty.
For Chichester in the room of Lord Henry Lennox,
who has become a Lord of the Treasury.
Mr. Inniskillen in the room of Mr. Whiteside, who
has become Attorney-General for Ireland.
ADJOITRNaIENT OF THE HOUSE.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE moved that the house, at its
rising, do adjourn until Friday, March 12. He said it
was not the i❑tention of the Government to proceed
with the East Indian Loan before March 12.

LIGHTHOUSES.
Mr. A. SMITH gave notice that on the 18th of March
he should renew his motion for a select committee to Dr
quire into the erection of lighthouses at Godrevy.