The Sun.
London, England, 1867-11-20 00:00:00

THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.

Tho LORD CHANCELLOR then read the Speech,
which has already appeared in a former edition of The
Sun.

Lord BROWNLOW said that in rising to address their
lordships' house he would claim their kind indulgence. Her
Majesty had submitted many important subjects for their
consideration, but the foremost in imprntance it seemed

was the Abyssinian question. He would upon this subject

advert to the fact that Mr. Rassam had been sent by her
Majesty to the King of Abyssinia to demand the captives,
and they had actually been delivered up to him, and only
awaited the season to arrive to pursue their homeward
journey. When Mr. Rassam waited upon the King and
was asked what had become of the prisoners, he said they
had started on their homeward journey. So faithless was
the King that he sent after the captives and compelled
them to come back to captivity, and when this was done
he made Mr. Rassam write a letter, which being delivered
by Mr. Flad, caused English workmen to be sent under
the direction of Col. Merevrether ; but the latter very
wisely would not allow them to proceed into the country,
but informed the Sing that the artisans and presents
would be forwarded when the prisoners were liberated.
After a great deal of equivocation, it was at last intimated
to King Theodore that force must be used to obtain pos-
session of the English prisoners in his territory, and after
great reluctance on the part of her Majesty's Government
an expedition had been sent to that country. With regard
to her Majesty's relations to all foreign nations it appeared
that nothing could be more harmonious. It was also men-
tioned in her Majesty's address that a most calami-
tous disturbance, termed Fenianism, had given a
great deal of trouble, and was most vexatious, but with
regard to it he was very sure no English loyal subject had
anything to do with it. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord
then adverted to the other points in the address—the ex-
tension of the franchise, cattle plague, &c.—and concluded
by moving that an humble address be presented to Her
Majesty.
Lord H YLTON, in seconding the motion, said that the
Abyssinian question had long been a vexatious question
before the public. It had been often agitated that an
expedition should be sent to Abyssinia, but it had not been
done until the present Government came into office.
Even then every means was taken to effect the
end aimed at without resorting to hostilities ; and
now when it became impossible to do otherwise,
although a groat tax would be placed upon the naval and
military forces, yet he believed our Anglo-Indian army
would maintain its ancient renown, and that every aid
would be given from every department of the Empire.
(Hear, hear.) With regard to our relations with foreign
nations, it was gratifying to know that the Emperor of
the French had expressed himself our firm ally. He trusted
that her Majesty's Government would be firm in deal-
ing with the hopeless and fruitless conspiracy which had
been alluded to in her Majesty's Speech, and that all would
bo done which could conduce to the peace and security of
English subjects. He would only glance at the clause
which had stated the probability of introducing a measure
of Reform for Scotland and Ireland, but after the large
measure of last year in Eagland he had no doubt such a
bill would be carried. The bills to prevent bribery
and corruption at elections and for the educa-
tion of the people were most important ones.
Having alluded to several other features in the speech
from the Throne, he concluded by seconding the Address.

Lord RUSSELL said that there was no doubt about
the propriety of calling the Parliament together for the
purpose of discussing this most important expedition to
Abyssinia. There were two questions, however ; one was
whether there was a casus belli against the King
of Abyssinia, and of this ho had no doubt;
and the second was, whether it was advisable
to send such a large military force to that coun-
try. Of the bravery of our troops, and of their doing their
duty, he had no doubt, but what weighed upon his mind
was that the climate and the difficulties of obtaining sup-
plies should first be cleared up. Ile had no doubt that the
means of ascertaining these facts had been taken by the
Government. He thought it impossible the Government
should not consider the outrageous conduct of the Sove-
reign of Abyssinia to their fellow-subjects, according to
every principle of international law, to be a cause of war.
But as to the second question, if he felt any doubts, they
had been suggested by Lord Stanley himself, who had
stated a great many difficulties in the way of the expedi-
tion. Having no interest of their own to serve, the Go-
vernment were, no doubt, correct in the course they had
taken, but he should suspend his judgment until he knew
more of the grounds on which they had acted. Us was
glad to observe in the speech that the expedition was for
the recovery of the prisoners, and "for that alone." lie
then adverted to the other portions of the Speech, and
expressed his pleasure that no apprehension was enter-
tained by the Government of any disturbance of the peace
in Europe. With respect to the events in Rome and Italy,
he referred to an article in the Convention of September
which he thought was likely to give rise to complications
—namely, the article giving the Pope power to raise
foreign troops. Serious difficulties might arise from this
provision, and he considered all these interventions in the
internal affairs of other countries injurious to the interests
of Europa and inconsistent with the principles they pro-
fessed. With regard to Fenianism he thought very cul-
pable negligence was shown in Manchester in not pro-
perly guarding the State prisoners, and it behoved the
Government to see that there was no laxity in the admi-
nistration of the law. Lord Russell then made some ob-
servations upon the forthcoming Reform Bills for Scot-
land and Ireland, and offered some stringent criticisms on
the speeches made by Lord Derby on the subject, re-
marking that it would bo much better he should show
that his measures were calculated to conduce to the public
benefit rather than that he should merely inform them that
he was about to take two further leaps in the dark.
Lord HARDWICKE was of opinion that the expedition
against the King of Abyssinia was necessary to the main-
tenance of the national dignity.

Lord CARNARVON dwelt strongly on the many diffi
culties that would have to be overcome in a war with the
King of Abyssinia, and expressed a doubt whether such a
campaign as the country had embarked in was the sole al-
ternative that presented itself. He spoke highly of the tact
and ability of Mr. Rasram in the management of wild races,
but thought ho did wrong in accepting money from the
King of Abyssicia, as it placed him in a false position as
the accredited envoy of her Majesty. Mr. Flad also was
an excellent man, but was not the person to be entrusted
with a grave and delicate mission. There was nothing,
however, now loft to be done, but to go on as vigorously
as they could with the war which had been commenced.
Lord HOUGHTON, referring to the relations existing
between France and Italy, said he could have wished that
the words in the Speech with regard to the early with-
drawal of the French troops had been omitted, because
they assumed that it would lead to a solution of the Italian
question. With respect to a Conference of the European
Powers, he hoped that before her Majesty's Government
disposed of that matter, whenever it should be referred to
them, they would seriously consider that the Papal ques-
tion was territorial as well as religious.
Lord LYVEDEN regarded the Abyssinian Expedition
as one of the most formidable misfortunes that could have
befallen the country; and, in order to show its necessity,
the Government would be required to give a further ex-
planation of its policy than was contained in her Majesty's
Speech. Before any money was voted it should be clearly
stated what limit would be put on the operations of the ex-
pedition, and how those operations would be carried out.
Earl of DERBY—My lords, in the first place I have to
return my sincere thanks to my noble friends who moved
and seconded the Address to the Crown in answer to her
Majesty's gracious Speech ; and if I am to make any dis-
tinction it is due, I think, to my noble friend (Lord Brown-
low) who, for the first time, addressed your lordship;
and who, in the course of his observations, exhibited
a clearness and accuracy and knowledge of the subjects on
which he treated which aro to be found only in those who
are in the practice of speaking. (Hear, hear.) I only
hope, my lords, that we shall more frequently hear him in
the debates of your lordships' House. (Hear, hear.) I
have next to express satisfaction at being able to infer,
from the language held by the noble lords who have ad-
dressed your lordship, that there is no intention of inter-
fering in the slightest decree with the unanimity with
which your lordships are prepared to vote the Address in
nnswer to the Speech from the Throne. But there were
some observations which it would be impossible for me to
pass over in silence, and upon which I must 13,.,g the indul-
gence of your lordships to make a few remarks. I understood
the noble earl to say tha; he is not disposed to offer any
objection to the pdiey of Ivr Illjesty's Government in
cJnnection with the expedition, while at the same time he
reserved to himself the liberty of dealing with the ques-
tion on a future occasion, and expressing any opinion
which he may form upon more mature reflection. I can
assure your lordships that there never was a decision to
which a Government came with more reluctance, or with
a greater sense of its imperative, necessity, than the deci-
sion which her Majesty's Government took of despatching
an expedition to Abyssinia, and that that decision would
not have been taken if they had not the firmest conviction
that the time had arrived when any other course would
have been unworthy of the Government of this country,
and would have seriously detracted from the estimation
in which we are held, and would, in point of fact, have
exposed us to the well-grounded complaint that we
allowed her Majesty's subjects to remain in unjust cap-
tivity, and her Majesty's Crown to be insulted with im-
punity by a semi-barbarian. (Hear, hear.) The noble
lord below the gangway (Earl of Caraarvon) expressed an

opinion that the course pursued was not the most desir-
able, but the greater part of the observations of the noble
lord referred to a period far antecedent to that for which
her Majesty's Government are responsible. He objected
to the mission of Mr. Bassani, and thought that a
Minister charged with the important function of repre-
senting the Crown should have been sent to Abyssinia
with a small escort of cavalry. I can only say that if my
noble friend had volunteered to undertake such a
mission with a troop of the Hampshire Yeomanry —(laugh-
ter)--I should not have had the least objection to his try-
ing his persuasive powers on King Theodore. (Laughter.)
No more certain plan could be adopted to lead to absolute
discredit and failure than the sending out of a Minister
with a small escort, incapable of protecting themselves,
and certain, if Theodore objected to the mission, of being
altogether destroyed or taken into captivity. Mr. Has.

sam was sent out because he was considered perfectly
competent to deal with the question. He was received
with great cordiality and attention by King Theodore, and
then suddenly, from some of those caprices which seize
the minds of cemi-barbarous people, he thought fit to
change his tone, and to prove the depth of his attachment
by putting Mr. Rassam in prison. Mr. Rassam was the
bearer of letters from the Queen, which were treated by this
potentate with utter contempt. He was the bearer also of
presents, but falling under the displeasure of the King, he
was informed that he and other prisoners should bo de-
tained until certain artificers, whom he desired to instruct

his troops, were sent out. That was the position 01

affairs when we acceded to office. Mr. Fladarrived in
July, and in October he returned to Massowah, bearing an
autograph letter from the Queen, and also bearing with
him certain presents, an assurance that if the prisoners
were released her Majesty would overlook the past, and
continue to entertain for him sentiments of friendship. At
the same time we sent out a certain number of artificers,
who were to be handed over to the Emperor on the delivery
of the captives. Upon the arrival of the artificers at Mas-
sowah he expressed great pleasure at receiving the presents
but he said nothing about the release of the captives, and
that being considered by Colonel laerewether a one-sided
proceeding, he was informed that the presents would not
be delivered until the prisoners wero released. In the
month of April, 1867, my noble friend and relative at the
head of the Foreign Department sent a peremptory de-
mand requiring the release of the prisoners, and three
months were given to Theodore for deliberation. The
papers were received by him on the 13th of June, but
from that time to this not the slightest notice has been

taken of the communication. Now, my lords, so stood
matters when Parliament was about to be prorogued ; and

as some question has been raised, partly with regard to
whether all other means had been exhausted, and also
whether Parliament had been fairly dealt with by the
Government in the matter, I hope your lordships will

allow me to refer to a debate which tock place in the House
of Commons on the subject on the 6th of July. The noble
lord then quoted at len ;,th f:om the debate in question, and
in which Mr. Henry Seymour, by whom it was initiated,
Sir Henry Rawlinson, and Mr. Layard declared that an
armed expedition was absolutely necessary for the release
of the Abyssinian captives. It is said that the first inti-
mation of the intended expedition was on the prorogation
of Parliament. The explanation of that is perfectly simple.
In the commencement of the month of June my noble
relative applied to obtain the most perfect information
which could be obtained from India and from other sources.
That information was not received till the 13th of August,
when we first received the intelligence which led us to
believe that we might with a very reasonable prospect of
success send an expedition for the accomplishment of our
object. On the 21st of August Parliament was prorogued,

and it was not till the 19th that we came to the determi

nation to send out the expedition. We therefore on the
21st gave Parliament the earliest possible intimation of our
intention. There has been no desire to conceal anything
from Parliament, and there has been no contradiction be-
tween the language of Lord Stanley before obtaining in-
formation and the subsequent decision of the Government
to send out an expedition when we did obtain informa-
tion. We determined that the expedition should be sent
out from India, and, for the purpose of having undivided
control, we appointed to the chief command an officer
who had gained the highest reputation in India, and on
whose ability and talents we placed entire reliance. We
left to Sir Robert Napier to say what force he required,
what amount cf equipment and armament of every
description. Your lordships will find from a blue-book
shortly to be laid upon the table that the greatest possible
pains have been taken that the expedition should be sent
out with every means and appliance which could possibly
be suggested. I may say here that that expedition is en-
tirely of an Imperial character. It has been supposed
that there was no power on the part of the Crown to em-
ploy Indian troops except in India. That, however, is a
misapprehension. The prohibition is as to the Crown
applying any portion of the revenues of India fcr the pur-
pose of paying troops for any external war, and thereby
withdrawing from Parliament the consideration and the
control which Parliament ought to exercise with regard
to furnishing the means of carrying on war. There is
nothing in the Crown employing Indian troops, but it is
illegal to apply Indian revenue to the payment of the
troops, except with the consent of Parliament. Now, we
do not intend to impose one shilling of burden ou the
revenue of India. India will only have to furnish the ordi-
nary pay of the troops, as if they were still in India ; ev,ry
other charge will be borne by the Imperial revenue. With
regard to the object and purpose of that expedition, I
thought nothing could bo more emphatic than the lan-
guage of the Speech. that the expedition had been sent for
the release of the prisoners, and for that alone. Having
effected the release of the prisoners, the force will at once
retire from Abyssinia. As to the suggestions of occupying

that country, establishing sanatoriums, and God knows
what besides, such ideas never crossed the minds of her
Majesty's Government. We have not the slightest inten-
tion of going one step beyond the release of the prisoners.

(Hear, hear.) I turn now to one or two of the other
topics of the Speech. The noble lord who last sat down
expressed regret at the paragraph containing a
hope that the Emperor of the French might find him-
sif able to withdraw his troops from Rome as early
as possible, and thus remove every ground of misunder-
standing between the Governments of Franco and

Italy. I am glad to find from the Emperor's Speech
that his view entirely coincides with the view
expressed by her Majesty's Government, and that he sees
the near approach of a time when his troops, having ac-
complished their object, may be withdrawn. The noble
earl (Russell) has commented on the September Conven-
tion, and on the arrangement which enabled the Pope to
employ a number of mercenary troops. Her Majesty's
Government were no parties to that convention, and it
is not the duty either of her Majesty's Government or of
any British Statesman to comment on the terms of a con-
vention between France and Italy alone, and which they
alone are bound by. Neither does her Majesty's Govern-
ment think it necessary to express any opinion as to the
Emperor of the French in sending an expedition, which
he no doubt felt called upon to send, for the purpose of
protecting tho Pope, not against the Italian troops or the
King of Italy, but against bands of invaders who bad
escaped the vigilance of the Italian Government. Having
effected that object, I think I may say on the part of the
Emperor that the earliest opportunity will be taken of pre-
venting any future misunderstanding by withdrawing the
French troops. A. noble baron opposite expressed the
opinion that no hasty decision would be come to with re-
gard to the Conference on the Italian question. We have
received an invitation to join in the Conference which the
Emperor of the French proposes. We have neither ac-
cepted nor declined that invitation. In the first place we
should be most happy to second the efforts of the Emperor
of the French to restore peace and secure Italy against
future complications, aad on personal grounds I am bound
to say we should feel it a satisfaction to be enabled in the
slightest degree to relieve the Emperor of the French from
the state of embarrassment in which this matter involves
him in his own country, in return for the cordial friend-
ship and goodwill which he has never failed to exhibit
towards this country—(hear, hear)—but there are various
subjects which are necessary to be considered. First, is
the Conference acceded to and accepted by Italy and the
Popo ? To call for a Conference to mrange the affairs
of two countries, neither of which concur in being re-
presented in that Conference, and neither of which
would hold themselves bound by the decision, would be
a superfluous waste of diplomatic energy and ability.
(Hoar.) Again, where the points of divergence are so
great as between the programmes of Italy and the Pope,
we may reasonably desire to know, before entering into a
Conference, what is the basis on which it is proposed the
decision shall rest. To proceed without such a basis, or to
discuss the affairs of Italy and the Papal See, would be
only to launch on an interminable sea of difficulty, which
leads, not to ultimate success, but to ultimate disaster.
The answer we have sent to the invitation of the Emperor
of the French is a desire to know whether the consent of
Italy and the Pope has been obtained to that Conference ;
and next, whether any basis is to be submitted. I turn
with regret to the next paragraph of the Speech, which
treats of the Fenian conspiracy. I regret., too, that the
noble earl (Russell) should have cast an undeserved impu-
tation on the Government first, and then on the local autho_
rides of Manchester, for what he considers great remiss-
ness in respect to guarding the Fenian prisoners. If there
is any blame, which I do not admit, it does not attach to
_ _

- -
her 14 j.sty's Government, because it is entirely attribut-
able to the course pursued by the local police at Manches-
ter.. -The noble earl misapprehends, and misrepresents the
course which was pursued. He says these Fenians were
sent under the protection of three policemen alone. That
is not the case. They were sent under the special guard
of twelve policemen, some on the van itself, and others
following in a cab, for the purpose of affording assistance ;
but it never was conjectured by the local authorities in
Manchester that an attack would be made in broad day-
light, in what may be called the middle of the town of
Manchester, of so determined and violent a character, and
therefore the policemen were only armed with their ordi-
nary weapon, and of course were no match for fifty or sixty
men armed with revolvers, and quite prepared to take life,
if necessary, for the purpose of effecting their object.
(Hear, hear.) Ido not think, therefore, the police of Man-
chester are liable to the imputation of recklessly discharg-
ing their duty.

Earl RUSSELL - Was not a telegram sent from Dublin
to Manchester, giving warning of the intended rescue ?
Earl of DERBY—There was a notion ,frona Dublin to

say that the rescue of these prisoners might be attempted,
and therefore it was desirable to take extra precautions.
Those precautions were taken by sending extra police
with the van. Certainly no information was received of
any such attack being intended as that which really took
place. Now, while four men are lying under sentence of
death, I do not wish to say anything to aggravate the
crimes of the Fenians themselves ; at the same time I must
be allowed to protest against those who, in the public
press and elsewhere, have assumed that these cowardly
outrages are to bo classed in the category of political
offences--(hear, heae)—and that, therefore, they are very
different from ordinary murders. The object of Fenianism
is not the removal of any grievance, or the redress of any
evil of which they complain. The avowed and definite
object is to upset the Government of this country and to
constitute an Irish Rrpublic —overthrow of the authority of
the Queen in her own dominions. That is the distinct
treasonable object of the Fenians. The idea of an Irish
Republic is ludicrous to one who knows the character and
condition of that country. lam satisfied that, if it were
possible to establish an Irish Republic and every British
soldier were withdrawn, in the course of six months
opposing parties there would be breaking each other's
heads, and in the course of twelve months they would
be cutting each other's throats from one end of the
country to the other. (Hoar, hear.) Some respect is due,
notwithstanding the evils of civil war, to people who
openly and avowedly come forward to oppose the consti-
tuted authorities, and who are prepared by force of arms
to establish their principles. In such a case as that,
political crimes and offences may be alleged ; but no such
character can be given to those whose sole means of
effecting their object of subverting all authority, and
establishing complete anarchy throughout the country,
are secret incendiarism, attacks on unprotected houses,
murders of single and unarmed policemen, attacks upon
police barracks, which were known to be undefended, by
men who have not the courage to show themselves, and
who at the very appearance of a corporal's guard or a dozen
policemen take to flight, and leave their unhappy comrades
who do not show sufficient speed to the tender mercies of
the law which they do not hesitate to violate. (Hear.)
Therefore I say, whatever may be said in mitigation of the
crimes committed by these Fenian conspirators, and what-
ever may be the disposition of the Crown and the people of
this country to show all the mercy consistently with the
discharge of tire duties of justice, I cannot for a single mo-
ment, and I am sure the country will not for a single mo-
ment, connect the idea of offences of this description with
those which are ordinarily known by the term of political
offences, and which, as political offences, appeal somewhat
to our sympathies. (Hear, hear.) Ido not think it ueces-
, sary to dwell on those measures which her Majesty's Go-
vernment has announced an intention of bringing before
Parliament ; nor will I follow the noble earl (Russell) in a
discussion of the general principles of the English Reform
Bill or of the Reform Bills to be introduced for Scotland
and Ireland. We shall, however, have au earlier oppor-
tunity than last year of discussing the merits of the Scotch
and Irish bills. He has suggested the arguments with
which 1 should introduce and support those bills, but I can
assure him that I shall use my own arguments, and not
those which he has put into my mouth. I will not deal
with the other topics of the Speech, except to say that the
question of education requires serious consideration. The
circumstances of the three portions of the United Kingdom
are very differentin this respect, and must be treated in a
different manner and at different times. With regard to Eng-
land we require more information as to the state of educa-
tion than we at present possess. We have ample informa-
tion with respect to assisted schools, and some information
with regard to unassisted schools ; but with regard to that
portion of our population which is without education
altogether, we require much more information before we
can safely come to a conclusion as to the principles which
should regulate education for England. The question of
Irish education is under the consideration of a commission,
which would have been long since appointed but for the
difficulty which has been experienced, first from the re-
luctance of the Roman Catholic hierarchy to take any share
in assisting the Government, and next on account of the
death of the Earl of Bosse, who had consented to be presi-
dent of that commission. The other questions will in due
time be brought before you, and it would not be wise in
me now to trespass on your time in regard to them. I will
therefore, conclude by expressing the satisfaction we feel
that the noble earl (Russell) and your lordships see no
ground for objecting to her Majesty's Speech, and that the
first day of the session has been marked by the unanimous
assent of your lordships.
The Address was then agreed to, and their lordships
adjourned at eight o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-LAST EVENING.
The SPEAKER having resumed the chair,
The standing orders were then read and agreed to.

NEW MEMBER.
Lord DE BURGH took the oath and his seat for Gal-
way county. . .