The Sun.
London, England, 1803-03-29 00:00:00

rtspre—ting Sir James SillitllarCZ'S AlinUity ;which
b 6,11., read, the Noble-Secretary moved a Corte.
spooding Address tl His Majesty on the-occasion,
IliCh was voted by their Lordship.; nem. disc. and
the Lords with White Staves ordered to wait upon
Ills Majesty with the •sone.
Some documents respeding an Appeal from Ire.
land were presented at the Bar, anti'ordered to lie
on the Table.

Earl O'Nx IL, one of the Irish Representative
Peers, viraiiSWorn, and took his.seati..
Lord Aur'ro. AND, after remarking
.generally
upon the great importance of the .subjeCl, moved
that the Revenue Accounts presented from the
Treasury on Friday last, be printed fur
.the use of
the House. He Was aware that this prodeeding,
fit:4n the voluminous-nature of the docuMenta in
question, would be rather expensive; however this
,consideration would only operate in such a degree,
as to bear no Comparison. against the utility de.
livable from haViog Accotnits such itnpottance,
and which would throw such alight upon the gene_
;al subjea. The Motion being Made as above,
it was ordered accordingly. The Noble Lord also
observed, that upon looking over 'the Bank Restric-
tion Bill, which stood in order for a second reading
this, evening, he perceived that the commencement
of its operation, was so dirant as the first of June.
There could he no necessity, therefore, for at all
hurrying the Bill through its different stages in 'that
House: Thos circumstanced, and with a view of
giving time ,for the farther consideration of the
subject,
,he was inclined to suggest the propriety of
postponing the order for the second reading un-
til the Recess, and named the first Tuesday for
the day. After a few farther observations to this
effedf, 'his Lordship moved accordingly. •
Lord KING seemed to entertain no. objection
to what was proposed by the Noble Lord, hut talkthe opportunity to announce his intention to move•
for the insertion of a clause into the Bill, to the
effeCi, as we understood' his Lordship, of obliging
the Diredors of the Bank of Ireland, after a 'certain
period, to provide for the 'amount of their own
Notes, in Bailc. of Engifind: Notes. A regulation
of this kind, his Lordship seemed to think, would
be prodottive of very salutary effeds, and partial..
lady tend to ameliorate the important 'concern of.
the Extkange bet Ween those parts of the United
Kingdom.
-The Earl of LIMERICK generally vindicated
the condufi of the Bank of Ireland Direnors ; Ile'
anticipated the favourable 'esient of a discussion
thereof,. and obserVed that the result would prove
that they were deserving of praise instead of cen.
sure,

Tbr itfaro4l of SLIGO agreed with what had
fallen from the last- Speaker, and observed, chat
with respeet to any proposition from the Noble
Lord, tending really to ameliorate the concern of
the ExChange between the two Countries, it would
certainly be favourably received by the Absentees,
as well as by other persons interested in that con.
sideration.

The question was then put, and the Bank of Ire.
land Restliaion Bill was ordered to be read a se.
cond time the first Tuesday after the Recess.
Lord PELIMAY rose to move for the second read.
ing of the Ititth. Militia Bounty Bill. The Noble
Secretary stated the outlines of the roeusnre, and.
the causes which led to its adoption : The leading
feature in the provisions of the Bill was, Ito enable
the Government of Ireland to extend the Bounties
payable to .Militia.mcn to four guineas, it such
cases as they found an advance necessary. His Lord_
ship observed, that the Committee on the Bill would
afford Noble Lords a regular opportunity of dis.
cuising any of its provisions, He, then moved, that
the Bill he now read a second time ; which being
done, the Bill was aftertyards,.: coMmitted for -to-
morrow.

Some routine business was then disposed of—
after which an Adjournment took pluce.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

MONDAY, MARCH 28.
THE SrFAKER took the Chair at three o'clock,
when several. private Bills were read and pasied ;
and several Members had leave of absence, from
indisposition.
A Report was brought up from' the Committee
appoin'ted to cry the merits of the Chippenham
Eleftion, stating, that Mr. BRooNs was not duly
elided, and that Mr. MAITLAND was duly elected.
The Clerk of the Crown Was tiler' ordered to amend
the return accordingly.
A Member was sworn in and took his seat.
• The Bill for building a new Theatre in the City
of Glasgow waa read a first time, and ordered to
be read a second time.
Mr. flAwatNs BROWNS moved the Order of the
Day to be read, for bringing Stephen Brooks, who
was guilty of gross prevarication before the Not.
tinghatn Committee, to the Bar of the House, in
order to receive the censure of the House, and his
discitsizze,
TheQ,uestion was put and agreed to, and he was
accordingly brought to the Bar.
S P .4.1 C Stepllen Brooks, a Select
Committee appointed to try the merits of the con.
rested Elation for Nottingham, have repotted to
this House, that you being called as a Witness be.
fore.them, have been guilty of wilful prevarication,
and 'the Tribunal before which your offence was
committed, is entrusted to cry questions of the
highest 'concern to the Privileges of thia House,
and. the Franchises of. the People ; but neither the
wisdom with which it has been established, nor the
spirit of pure Justice with which its powers have
been administered, would be of any avail, if offences
like your's were suffered to go unpunished. Your
casei's beet) loaded with circumstances of peculiar
aggravation : within two days ,before you were
committed, the same Committee had reported to
this Hook, another Offender, guilty also of preva;
rication. You, with this:warning and example be-.
fore you, incurred the same guilt ; and this House
marked its sense of yoat incieenleti crjminaltty by an-
nexit, a greater degrec,ol, ignominy to your punish.
meat : instead of placing you in the custody of its
trwn OfEcers, it tiansfet red yoti to a Co-mmon Gaol;
the couttition
_which since that time you have ex.
prbssed, has induced this House now to consent to

sequences of your punishment do not cease hare—
they will follow you through the test of your life--
you are Hien below the con mOn level of your fd.
low-subjens, and your reputation for ver,ieity is
lost ; you can never appear in a Court of Justice
with unblemished credit, to sustain 'yaw rights 'or'
those of others, and you have tti• exile& that 'you-
will
,be scorned and shunned by the very party
whom you have thus criminally endeavoured. to
sui port. The House ha's ordered you to .be dis.
•charged, and you are discharged accordingly, pay-
ing'your feee."
The Order of the Day was read for taking into
. conaideration the Woollen Manufacturers' Petition.
An Hon. Member moved, that the said Order
he discharge& and that the consideration of the
Petition be postponed to Friday.
• Op the question being put,:
Admiral BERKELEY said, he thought no time
should be lost in forwarding a measure so necessary
to the saffyof the people: riots had taken place
in his neighbourhood in consequence of not having
at present the means which •the Petition proposed,
and which the. Bill would effeCt, if sanctioned by
Parliament. He therefore ItOped, that no further
-delay would take place, but that every means' may
be takep to render all parties agreeable, with all
the expedition possible. -
Mr, INILHOUSI rose and observed, that the
Hon. Gentleman-had: told the House, that tiots had
taken place, which the measure now before the
House would in future prevent; but he had an op_
portunity of being acquainted with every circuits.
stance relative to the present business,• and he could
assure the House, that no riot had taken'place for'
a considerable time past ; he lived in the neigh.
.bourhood of Gloucester, and had many. opportunities
of getting the beat information on the aubjeti ; he
:therefore thought, that the-lithe asked for would by
no means tend to roduc6 any thing disagreeable,
and he thought it a measure of that importance,
that Aufficient time ought to be allowed fur • its ma-
ture Consideration. • :
Admiral Bane et.ty said a few words in explana.
Lion.
The question was then put, and the Petition
was ordered to be taken into consideration on Friday
next.
The Greenland Whale Fishery Bill was read a
third time and passed.
The Catholic_: Oath Bill was read, a,aceOpd time,
;and committed to a Committee of the whole House.
The Committee of the whole House on the- Irish
:Laws Suit Bill was postponed to Monday,nekt.
On the motion of Laird'EtisloN., the Order of
the-Day was read fur bringing• James Trotter to the
Barof the House„ who had Wilfully absented him.
self from the Commit tee
.appointed to cry the merits
of the Dunternillite E!etlitsn. , •
The SPEAKER said, before he put the question,
!be thought it his duty to inform the House, that
7the.Prisuner was to be brought to the Bar of the
House by tke'.Serjearit at Arms, who is to stand
there with die Mace, and that no Gentleman could,
put any question to the Prisoner but through the
medium of the Chair. It was therefore necessary
for those Gentlemen who had any intention to
question the Prisoner, to. furnish him with the
questions they wished to be put to hint, as he did
nut mean to put any question to hint on his'u'vn
account, having no authority to do so. •
- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEI:
,said, that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Tt t,
shoilld state the points on Which' he Meant to rest
his Motion ; at present there was not sufficient be-
fore. the House to warrant a punishment
.equal to
that. Which was moved for on a former evening.'
Mr. TIERNEY said, he had no in-tention to put
any question to the Prisoner, through the medium
of the Chair=; all he meant. to propose wa4 that
James Trtutter may be heard in•his-defence.
The
,S /IK. then addressed the Prisoner—
" James Trotter, a Selest Committee of this House,
appointed to try the merits of the Dunfertnline Elec.
firm, haae reported, that you were summoned by
the SVEAKEICS Warrant to attend the said Coin.
mit tee, aril nfterwards, by :an order from the Com,
mittee, both which you. have wilfully,negleCted to.
obey. What have you got to say in your de-
fence
lis defence was ordered to be taken down -in
wri.tiag, it was-accordingly done, and read.by the
Clerk,' -which • i 3 as follows That he Was not
at home for ten days previous to the time the first
summons- was left with his fically, and when .a
second notice was left at. his house, his wife 'did
not inlbrin him Of it ; he, therefore, left his dwell-
iog, ignorant. of his having been served, with a
second- summons; and he added/ that he was ex-
tremelY :sorry- for the offence 'he' had committed,
and Would have come up to London at hit (IWI.I CX.
pence, if he had known thedangerous consequences
in not attendit -to the tummont."--, •
The Prim:l,ler wai then taken from the Bar, by
order of the SPFAKVR.
Lard EUSTON raid understooditwa
in tact
stltehe
custom of the House, for any person placed
situation of the Prisoner, to be called to the Bar on
the motion:of a Member, to receive a severe,aepti-
tnanat for his offence,.and then dischatged on paying
his fees.
The.SPE,4KER.said, the question now befOre
the House was, whether James Trotter should be
discharged on paying leis fees ?
Mr, TIERNEY said, he could not help obseev.
i.ng, that the punishment Trotter had Already re.
ceived, was by no means 'adequate to the offence.
Thete Was a similar ease on the ReCords Of the
House,,which stated, that AlexanderlVlorris, in the
year t 796, had wilfully. neglected to.attend a Corn.
mince agreeable to the summons he. received for
thit purpose, in consequence of which- he Was taken
into custody and btooght to the Bar, and the House
committed him to Newgate for the. offence. He ,
could not but think this a case inpoint. James
•Trotteritad evidently conceded himself from the
Committee, for if Gentlemen would observe, - the
5p LAll,:b Warrantmia dated on the ad of Febru.'
ary, the Chairman of the Committee's Warrant on
the roth of the saute month, and the fawner never
mddehis appearance till the zest of Mara, It wayi
11111:W411011411 the Minutes should be laid before the
douse, and then Gentlemen would better judge of
the conduit of the Prisoner.,

the desire of the 119-11. Gt nth:in in, il '..*;v.i'et.:; !lie
N'lii.l.ltc:R of the Committee hod belore the House,
As it %vas contrary to Cllitoni, a:itl Avould operate as
:1 1., Id precedent. ". , .
'17,;. x I'EzIKER said there was nothi'il,- improper
4:
iri reading the IVtittOtes mentioncti by the Hon.
Mernb,r. :-- '-' - ,'—'"'—'

Mr. R/MGGE observed, th;it the iutroduZlion
of the. Minn.! es would he higit y iityr.Tet, and that
Extra 1s front the .evidence given before the Coin.
mittee. had nothink to d4i with lilt ixr•fs*it question.
The Prisoner was placed before she House as a per.
son guilty, of an offence, and tilt-refire there was not
any reason Jgitit7 to .prove his guilt ; that held al.
ready been done.

Mr. T. IERNEY said, he surely ought to be al-
lowed to read the Minutes as a part of his speech.
it was his wish that the .Minutes should he read, in
order to form a proper judgment of ihe c a .e now be.
fore the House. fle found gr6at y in his pre,
sent situation to please several Hon.. Gentlemen, as
:to his manner of. addressing the House on this
question,. He again reverted to the case of Alex-
ander Morris, which he considered H case in.. point,
and the punishment the House had iriiiided on him,
as an example to 'others, evineed ,Inuch wisdom.
that thiS man.now before the House bad wilfully
negleeted to attend the Committee, .was beyond all
doubt : he heard what he was about: to say,- from
,good authority, that 41 Witness for Sir John Hen.
derson was ready to prove, that the Prisoner offer-
ed' soot. to keep our of the way. This offence was
too gross to 'pass unpnni bp thereforhould
move, That James ratter be sent to Newgate
for six months."

SfiER/D/iN said, it did not appear to him
`as necessary to offer any additional proofs of the Pt i..
saner's guilt—he had aekoowledged his fault, and
very candidly told the House, that he ,hould have
obeyed the summons had he' known 'the bad can-
sequences which would attend his improper condal
this, he said, was the comtnoolanipage of persons,
who have been made sensible e.r• the oiftnce theY
have committed. It was now nete:,:„try
.to ir~f}tt3
sortie punishment on the Prisoner as an example to -
'others.
71.,e Lord AD VOC AT.O of S;COT/. /1 said, it,
was his wish that the House should ;‘.'t with mode-
ration, and on a cool consideration of the case; he
had no doubt but the House would (scat the prisoner
with lenity, notwithstanding the Gentleman
opposite to hint had painted . the prisoner's
condoet in the blackest colours. He e. as ready.
,to acknowledge titan the -prisoner had done
'Wrong, and he was glad to tee that the House
• was determined to punish 'pet-,tAis • Wilily of any
offent.4 that went CO iiijore any of its Members.
Rut before punishment was itdlikled, it was proper
to be waster of.. the case : he said, the SPEAKER'S
Warrant was dated on the 2,.1 nf and the
Prisoner received it On the 7th of the sane month,
and by the purport of the Wartant, he was ordered
appc.araiNC,9ll.k.foUowini; tUy,
•
:-at the 1-louse of Commons, a distance el4oomiles.
was unnecessary to make an excuse lot- his not be
i,„g in London, at the time „mentioned in the War.
rant, as the dist:w.ce was beyond human power,tone-
Icomplish. The poor mon w•holtneW nothin of the
rnitatelij a Sr Warrant, thought;
,f 5. he could. '
be in in a short time, it ryasnO.csn-:
sequence, consequently lets his house On business,
which has nceasiculett him to incur the: displeasure
of the House. The case which had been mentiooed
Was AI very ditl:rent ate
by the Hon. Gentleman,
Adexantler Morris was acquainted wiih the nature of
.the offence, and it was clearly proved„ that, he
.negleaed to attend the Committee, for
which offence, ilea was very i!roperly seia to •New-
'gate. But this poor man "re.ddes in a part of' the
.country where he had no opportunity of learning the.
nature of the warrant, as being of. rethed habits,
he did not suppose it of any" con;;equctic'e, partien.
larly when he fOund it impossible
,to comply with.
the meaning of its letter, in so short a time. He
'hoped the House would take into consid.:ration the
'siMplicity of the man, his family, and
,4ituatiop
life, as every day's confinement in. London would •:
:injure him much, as this eras a tithe of.year his
vierts were required on his.larm.' 'Ho thought this
was.it'case. where indulgence might bz,giaitted, as
;the objed before•them was a par, ignorant man,
;who did not know the meaning of' t)ie Warrant.
Mr.HAWKINSIIROWtiE said few': words.-
Mr. ie. Dum.m.s reemintiended to the House to
be merciful rather than severe with the prisoner, who •I
had said in his defence that' he
,did not 'know the
consequences of not attending to*the order of the
House ; this arose from. his ign'orance in not- being
acquainted...with the nature of the warr.int, and,(or
this offence the Hon.. Gentleman opposite 'to him
would tvish to send the prisoner•to Newgate for six
moutho . lie could not but think the Hw. Gentle-
r:lm wished to push his principles of justice too far.
The poor man had been ,brought no trout his,
hum, and locked up it the top Of this, '1 lot.ltie
Shuttle Worth, who had been' guilty of grows
'rication, was disehargrd. I thought his off9)el
:deserved the most Severe eastiption b,O he found
Gentlemen hi.at now ::he%vo difi;;;L:lWe t.f opinions
and tharisotier, whose n.; ca,inned his
guilt, was to be bent to pristur"--foehOe \:l,l:fidiint)
a ::false`Witriess, who had irnAted the L',.ymmittee
by.his-tross prevat Ica tiuns, cocci tf.'d -a re-
primand &vm the Howie. This did n'm ac'eord with
"Itii sem itnents, and he hoped the f.f.,il,:t .01'ew
every icdttlgenee in tlwit ver to tie Vrisuner.
Lord,DUNLOIr said, the
,question before the
House I,s, what punislanent might to l> it.tiiii*ted on
a nun who had cominitted such an offence. ;It was
certainly an important question, and deser vet; much
consideration. But under all tht! circumstance:4'bl
the: present though 8014:7.c:cm punishment
had been infikied to prevent a repetition of the of.
fence. The rase, he said, was very dif'rerent with
.
respea to- IVlurns ;—it. was clearly proved last Ire
knew, the nature of his offence, 80(1 therefore he ad.
ded insult' to the dignity of the,liouse, by Petting
, its Order and Liter But he thoOght
the case of a Mr.-„Sitick applied more than the
on: mentioned by Mr. Ti Lltt; Xy, Where a' contest.
• ed eledion jiati been determined 3 u cOtlimitte'e,
without the evidence of Sirick,,Whn kei.,t. Out
of the way, eigisegtiptiroile of Petition:;s.was
precluded from hawing the benefit of his evidence :

Hofts«, and theltecordi would spew that aLlce
was not sent to Netvgate for the offence, but tva!
kepi in cuytody a short tim:,- then censured and dis.

y

'K

charged.
Mr. FOX said, he was astonished that 'any Mem-
her in that House would sanelion the by
the ti' f.-.1)1e Lid, as it was necessary to puniSh offen.
tiers of this description, for the,supportOtEle4tiorl
Laws, and the dignity of the Hoitses.,The.4l,o44
rerjury w.ts not worse titan the offence now the sub.,
Alehate,
.and Gentlemen might beg the indui.
genre' of the House to Istgranted to offenders, a nisaY
:that ti es-e is no, precedont for the Motion : he woolti.
ask; if the:House of Commons could not punish the
offence now complained of ? The Prisoner had saidi
he 'knew- no dangerous consequences that would
%follow his conduct, but:he ought to know, for the
example of others ; and unless it is severely punish:ed, a party
"" of the way, till the business of a Contested Eke.may in future send witnesses at any time
non is over, and be able to calculate the exalt expence
'of keeping the Witnets in "confinement, and persons
!
careless as to the light punishment that will accom.
tany his crime, and in the course of a week or t,vo,
he able . to return to his friends, with an ample c,ro•
_pensation for being locked up in the House of Corn- •
mons.—That it appeated•upon the face 'of the re'
,port, the it.famous conthaof the Prisoner is beyOnd
all doubt, whether the minutes are read or not; and
he believed that the subpoenas of that House were
similar to Ahe itilstptinas of the Courts of Law, andt
therefore, some' heavy penalty ought to attend those::
persolstisias negled, to obey them.
CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUEI
!said, he. confessed that he felt considerable anttietr.;
upon thiS subjet% He certainly was not disPgiew
to proceed with any degree of severity or ri&nor:'
beyond what the -occasion called for ; 'hut he also'
s
felt. the necessity of preserving the authority of 04'
:11ousekillnd he. also felt what was due to a Com.;
mit tee such as the present ; and when the Chairmatt
of the 'Committee -recommended' .3 proceedingi
cettainly catoe with great 'Weight. Ifany
was enteilained with regard to the punishment tte,
be upon, this•man, the-leaning of his mink
he tO stiript the oeinion of those who had
amp:e. means of judgingopon 'the subject. . But as clic'
/-lottse might have the
he
tanesi kroine:di ;it; Gicw:e
nsria.etioenes3re
s
e,ntinai t
pollieg:si:stinersti,coskoitio.rmsuspend tulle
opin.
ma
the it juclg'
Men t.---Firs.onlessed that. when .this stibjea was fir!'
-brought forward, he was astonished that a proPoli
tion of this !kiiiefliatt not been' made. If he CQUi,a
not have access to suct . materials, he should Or.",
tairdy accede to the proposition made by the
moan Of the 'Corninittee—But lie 'could not shut his
eyes.to-theisineveilingiv.ofthat. Rouse in cases wines
-
appeared to him to be similar. to the presents—ln the
case of Alex. Morris, he was committed to New:
gate, but there was certainly some degree of dit:'
,fetence between that case and the present; he hid
.not aCkn,,Wledged his . offence, beti,les, he was re-
siding iu this town, and had nut undergone the,tle•
;gree of pifoishineOt which-has-beeo already
the Pri'soner the present instance.
-.--
`But though these considerations might operate upon ,
`the rompaSiitin of the House, it should be recolk-41.
edshat, her wasuld not appear 41fans.H1 :fournsit• r
it lielifintro4mt therefore'cotild not °relate in 13°.s/Te
e)tatnple in future times. With regaj!'i "
! ignorance of the crime ;
'ease tiiriek, it undoubtedly was not in p:)int ;,rie
soner pleaded ignorance of the conseonenco. lie
di Present' only wished to ask the Ilot.r.x. to pause
bid°!er, they inii4cd their judgthent. shonla
pr.opt:se to get rid of the present irititin_ns.
:miter by proceding to the Orders of the Day, fey
nvgativ-it'g it, ori what would be,much more agree-
able to !lion, by the Noble tord's consentiug to
withdraiv it, II the. Noble Lord should consenr
the preset,-
~e
to withdraw it, he would be aw:ste that he would be
it hiring is forward,' if he. tlvnight prol'ets
.On .another occasion.
Mr., POSE said, be was 'of opinion that this
question he as well decided by the house
by the Commiiiee. He wished to observe that be
_
knew nothing of t:iis! case, , but what he hall heard
iii' that liause. Pie had always understood it tO'
a.fundatnentat rule of Justice, that a person ghoul' •
not benefit by keeping witnesses out of die way.
It had been stated that Perjury was a greater crime
than the one for which this man was no A' ICI be Poe
nishedi undoubtedly, morally speaking', it was a
more enormous ofFznce, than that of a witnesewils.
fully Dissenting 'himself. But he believed that it,
very seldom happened that a man either served -
self or his party by Perjury, because when he Cattle
into Court, it was almost always possible!eithet to
extract the truth, or else to deten him in his false-
,
hood ; but it was impossible to foresee or totuaril
against the consequences' of a Witness being kept
out of the way. It .had been stated. by a Noble
Lord (Dun I. ) that' there was a' case in point in
whiCh the.person had been dismissed with a repri.
tnantl, bat if this man was dismissed with such a
ponishrtvmt, and with aoexpenee, perhapsi'of sot•
it
would really he an cecouragement to others to com-
mit the same offence. He was thtrefore,of opinianr
that cal;ing this wan to the Bar and reprimanding
hint, would by do means be a sufficient punishment..
It had been urged in the course of the debate, that
the COnf law were armed with poWets to pet.
SVitnes)es w!n did,, not attend, but he had
I:ntg thcl74itt it a great defea in our Laws; that the
Courts of I.aw had not powers sufficient fir
that
purpose. lie Maid had opportunities- as a Grand Jut v-
tnstt',ol seeing that if a Witness whose name was on the
Lic4 of the 13ill,'Ilid not attend, the only punishment
was, that he forfeited his reeogn',.zance ; therefore, it a
person was rash enough to keep a' Witness out of the
way, the ends of ..},nia might be defeated. lb'''. •
was not an opinion now taken up for the first time
—he did not wish to punish this man more Oaf',
was necessary: to. deter others front committing
similar offences ; but he really thought a reprimani

at the Bar would not he suffiaent.
Mr. GEO. rANSITTART said, the two'
mcndation of sue Committee was resolved upon,
before this Min had teen heard in his defence, boi
that defence was that
so inconsistent and evasive OM
there. would 'be an end of the. authority of
tiou-e, if he did nor undergo a further punishment.
Lord Ef:SI.QX said, he had not stated, that be

I

171

e••- Motion
at the destte of tilt Corninittee,
distinetly- stated that he bid communicated. with
Bever I MeMbers of Parliament upon the subjea.
,rsetr. T. GRENVILLE said he hoped the Noble.
Lord would not press the Motion, hut that he
would adopt :the advice given by the Right fron
the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, and thereby
relieve the House from the difficulty in which it
was now placed. He was firmly convinced that
if the present Motion was adopted, all hope of purity
of Ele,aitn would be at an end Brit that was not
all, he was afraid of putting this Motion upon the
Journals, because then it would appear to posterity
that in a Most serious ease like the Present, the
3-. st question which the House considered, was
merely whether the offender should be reprimanded,
and then it would be urged as a precedent in all
'cases of a similar nature. The case had been so fully
discussed,
,that he would not occupy the time of the
House by making any further observations upon it.
If any Gentleman felt any cifitibt upon the Subjeft,
and requited any further information, there could
be no ohjeflion .to the Minutes of the Committee
being laid before the House.
Lord EUSTON said, as the House seemed to be
of opinion that his Motion ought. to be, withdrawn,
be bad no objeCtion to withdraw it.
• When the SPEAtEIi put the question for with.
drawing the Motion,- several Members tibjs:Ct6d to
it, and the discussion therefore proceeded.
The CHANCELLON' of the EXCHEQUER
said, that the Noble Lord had relieved his mind
from one great difficulty, by stating that he was not
instrufted by the Committee to make the Motion
Which he had made to the House.
The Motion was then put, and negatived without
a division.
The CHANCEL OR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved; that so much of the Minutes
.Of, the said
Committee as 'related to. the sthirmoning of James
`Trotter to appear as a Witness, be laid before that
House.
Mr. TIERNEY said; did not think that
motion went far enough; he thought if dui), were
to call for the minutes of the evidence, they ought.
to have all the'.evidence that related to the Prisoner,
in order to know whether he wai or was not an

important witness, because if they merely wanted to
know that he had been summoned and did not attend, .
the House was already in possessiou of that fa& by
the report of the Committee. •
Thi Th7n,. R. DUNI) /IS said,that if the Hon. Gen.
tletnan's proposition was acceded to, he thought the
whole of the evidence ought to be laid before the
House, so' that they might
,judge as well upon the
evidence Which was gitien upon the one side as the
other.
(111% TIER NEY, in explanation, said, that no-
.
thing could be turther from his intention than to
tall for the whole evidence that was given before the
i Committee, or to go at all into the merits of the
decision of the Committee, which he was convinced
was pereealy proper ; he only wished for
.so much
. - Of the evidence as related to the coodua of Mr.
•
Trotter.
7-h CH/INC ELLOR of tht EXCHEQUER said,
that, it the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman who
spoke last but one was agreed to, it would tend to
destroy all the advantages that resulted, from then
Grenville Aft, and would lead the Huse to try
over again the whole of thetase which had been de.
cided by the ComMittee. He was disposed to ac.
cede to the proposition made by the Hon. Gentle.
man (Mr. Tt ERllayexcluding, however, all idea of
going any 'further, or of referring to any thing,
but that which immediately concerned the Prisoner;
with this exception, he had no objeklion to the pro.
clotlion of the further information which the Hon,
Gentleman required. • • - . •
Mr. TIERNEY then proposed to amend the 'Mtn_
lion Of the Cit 411 g ELLOR Or the EXCIIIiQUER . by
tallingfor such parts of the minutes of the evidence
of the said Committee, as related to the said James
Trotter. . .
The Motion being put on the ,Amendment,
, .
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND rose
to oppose the Motion : he contended, that the House
could not have punished this person in time manner now
proposed,' unless he had admitted the raft at the Bar
of that House.: The question was not now, whether
this man should be punished for dislmbeying the
order of that House ; but the objeB of the present
proceeding would •be to punish hint for an offence
with which he was-not charged by the Ccmtnittee.
but had been said, that this man had offered a bribe;
o
was that a crime of which he was accused ? And
it would be contrary to every principle of jtistiee,
to go into the examination < of a crime with which
The man had never been accused, and against which
he had never been heard in his defence.. If the
Committee had .entertained any suspicions of the
kind that h.. 1 now been thrown- out, they would
haVe asked leave to adjourn their proceedings till
the man could have been found and examined. Sip.
pose it should be stared in the minutes of the evi.
dence, that tliis man did offer a bribe, would he be
permitted to ether into his defence ? And it eel..
mainly would be unjust to punish hho without hear.
ing what he 'mad to say in his defenc. On the
• other hand, it would be irregular to enter into an
examination of the whole Case, and to examine tvit.

tinges to ascertain his innoceoie ; upon th.! whole,
1 . therefore, he was of opinion that the proceeding
now proposed, could not he listened to for a turnout:.
Af.r... HOBHOUSE spoke shortly in favour of
tile= Motion,
Lord GLENBERVIE said, he was decidedly of
opinion, that before She House proceeded to pass
Any sentence Upon the Prisoner, they ought to be
, in possession nor only of the fad of his contempt of
the Order of the House, bit. they ought also to know
, the degree of guilt that was imputable to him. In
Calling for this further information, there was ter.
vainly no kind of imputation upon the COMlTlittte,
!ftause in apportioning the degree of punishtuent,
i st would .be
.necessary to ascertain the different
I shades and degrees of guilt, This was analogous
to the proceilings
.in Courts of Law, in eases of
lof misdemeanour ; 4fter a person was conviacil, the
1 14dges when the Prisoner was brought up for judg.
!tient, read over the whole of the evidence of the case,
in order that the Court might know whether there
l!ere any circumstance of extenuation or ofaggrava.
!um. He aamilted, that it would be improper to
1 zotOire whether this man Legs been guilty of 44

Otilfr
Main; Mit it teas rCrtalrlfy "TICC.CSiary ro
ascertain the inotiVel which irfluenbcd his condut‘t,
not as a substantive et lute, bot to ascertain tht de-
gree of his guilt upon this occasion, and to appor-
tion the punisluhent accordingly.
Mr.' WM. DU D4S wished to know, whether,.
if if should appear from the Minutes, that there was
any imputation of bribery against this man; he would
have an opportunity of being heard in his defenee.
The CHANCELLOR cf. the EXCHEQUER
said, he presumed there would be no ohjettion to
the Minutes being read over to the Prisoner, and
that he mighrbe permitted to offer any thingin- ex-
tenuation of his offence.

Mr. SHERIDAN said, he did not think the
Prisoner ought to be perthitted to go into a defence
of the CriMe 'of which he was already Convided.e—
The evidence that was called for, was not evidence
in aggravation, but merely to know whether the
offence proceeded from ignorance or from wilfulness.
If it should appear that this man sees a poor, igno-
rant Country Ferrntr, unconnected with the busi.
ness of the Election, it certainly , would have
great weight in the sentence which the House would
pais.; On the• other hand, if this man was an adive
agent in the eledion, if he was an adive agent for-
! purposes of corruption,. it was certainly right that
the House should be acquainted with the fad. He
• did not mean to' impute any thing to the prisoner ;
he was merely putting possible cases, io shew that.
the House ought to have the fullest informationehat
the nature of the case would allow. It was with
this view that he wished to have the minutes of the
Committee laid befete the House, as far as they re-
lated to the prisoner. As to calling for the minutes
to shew that he had disobeyed the order, of that
Howe, it certainly was unnecessary., because the
House had emple information upon that subjed in
the Report of the 0)1111a:tee.
Mr. T7ERNEY said, that the real objed of the
present Motion was to keow to what extent this
man was to be punielted. The Noble Lord
!(EtesToe) thought the proper punishment would be
Ito reprimand him at the Bar : other Gentlemen
'thought such a.pu.nishment by no means adequate to
the offence he had committed. In order therefore
'to decide between these two opinions, it would he
necessary to have SO much of the evidence laid be-
fore them as related tb the cenduel of Mr. Trotter.
It had been urged that it would ,be a great hardship
to have those Minutes laid before. the House, because
the Prisoner would not have an opportunity of being
heard ; but, for his own part, he knew no term of that
House, which prevented him from being heard at
the bar in mitigation cf his puoishment. The case
of Morris in 5796, was Completely a precedent for
the conduct of the House on this occasion, And. on
that nocasion the House did go into examination of
rite tmitives which influenced his entitled in order to
determine what degree of punishment they should
inflid upon him. If the present proposition tended
in any manner to impair the area of the Grenville
Ad, he certainly would not be a party to it, bnt
be saw no ground for such an assertion, and there-
foie he trusted the House would concor with him in
thinking that the Minutes now called for ought to
be granted. •
Mr. IIRAGGE observed, that ttte.way to judge
of the allegations made aeainst the Prisoner, was
to have the Minutes of the Committee laid befare
the House ; 'and• if there were on the face of these.
Minutes any thing which gave a calouring' to the
conduCt of this. Man, he could net, as a Member of.
the House, refuse his assent to to the pro.
priety 'of .not hearing this matter in aggravation,
be saw no objedion ui it, for the whole of it was
matter of aggravation ;—would
.it not he aggrava,
boil if it should appear that this man was Agent to
any of the Parties, or conneded with any of the
Parties ?' Most undoubtedlyejt would be matter of
aggravation, and such as the House ought. to con.
Sider.—All , that the House knew at present teas,
that he was here in the custody of the Of:leer of the
House, 'and that his name was James Trot ter--
That he had been served with 'the Warraet of the
EAKEIc of that Hotteei, and that he had 4isobeyed
the injunctions of that Warrants and. that a Cam.
mittee of the House had reported him to hive been
wiltully absent, and that he confessed his guilt :
that was ell the House kteew of him, and therefore
further information was necessary, r in order to
the proper understanding of the case ; and if that
information led to the aggravation of the case, that
was not matter to prevent the House from consi..
dering iteeseßut although this course appeared to be.
just, yet he must (Other observe, that this was not
all which justice,required to'be done, for the Boise
• must then hear what the Prisoner had to say in his
own behalf.—That ,the House had done already On
the case as it now stood; of course, ifehe Prisoner
was to be charged with something mare, he ought
to be heard again, fur that was no more than a
common rule of justice ; and this obviated, perhape,
the whole objection which had hitherto been sweet
against the course which was now proposed,---It
was true that the Prisoner could not call eeidence,'
but he. must admit tile truth 'of the case exhibited
against him ; the Ileuse, however, would ,heee
him with indulgence, and give him the full benefit
of whatever he.could reasonably urge in his own
behalf, and the more sus, because he coUld not offer
any evidence but that was a situation, hoWever
hard, it must be remembered, he had brought upon
himself; for had he appeared in, time, as it was his
duty he would have avoided ell this inconveni.
ence, Upon. the ground that the whole of the evi.
dence ought to be laid befare the House, in'order
that it might be fully acquainted with the i;eiure of
the case, Vl4ll at present it was not, he concurred
in the Motion new before the House.

Arr. lIERIDAN explained.—He did not allude
to the Minutes of the Committee as matter of ;lg.
gNifotiott on the general nthconduet of the Pri.
honer, hut merely as it related to the wilfulness of
his absente,, after he was served with the .sTc:titer's
Waitaift to attend.--Tie gliolight, however, that
the I louse could not sutler this person to enter tpon
oath to eontradid what appe.tred against him betore
the Committee.

Mr LORD ADrOCATE of SCOTLAND ex-
plained, and said; that all he contended was, that
this was an ex paste proceeding, :m l might possibly
area smile persons who aught mit to be afretted by
it ; it rnight to suiu degree aff,..cl the `sitting Meat..

to rills matter referred, and that,
aootrhen,ie,', not be regular:
be NA NERAL said, he couhl not
undersiand the iiistintlion which sortie Gentlemen
seemed to take in this case—that they wou:d nut
teeek.e any thing ',that went in aggravation of
punishment, but they would receive that which
would aggravate tit& tolour of guilt. Now, whether
man VII jllllll y abgented himself, or was absent from
ignorance, was a qUestion of colour to the'off'ence,
and to allow evidence of the colour of the offence,
was allowing evidence of the aggravation of the
offerer ; and he cimid see how any
.aggravation
of guilt could be received in evidence without
tog after it, as a necessity consequence, an aggra-
vation of punishmetit. Whether the House should
think that the Prisoner, who bail once an Opportu.
:thy of explaining his condu4 by evidence, lint
which he had lost, either by his own negligence or
wilfulness, should now have that' opportunity re,
stated to him, was a consideration for the House;
perhaps he was not now entitled to any such indul-
, gence, nor was it easy to see how the forms of the
House would admit it, sunosing such a thing was
desirable, which he was out saying it eras; this. was
not the time for discussing that point, but he should
thick that if the Minutes, ,after they were laid be.
fore the House, should Call for a. larger punishment
than the !louse shirold be disposed- in its justice to
infliiff upon the present statement of the case; then
he should think the matter deservekto be consider.
ed ; for they should not punish a man foe ‘vhat he•
did not know the Ho9se were going to punish him,
but that the l !owe should at least allow the Prisoner
to give whatever favourable colour he was able to
any thing that was ohjalcd to him. That perhaps
would be the course w hich the House 'would adopt
in this case.

The question was then put, " That so much of
the Aflinutei of the Evidence given before the Dun_
fermline Commit tze as relates to James Trotter, la:
laid before this i100,e," riLich was ordered.