The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-01 00:00:00

EDUCATION.

In answer to a question from Mr. M. Gissox

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
house would bave due notice before any vote was taken
for education.

SUPPLY.

Mr. FITZItOY brought up the report of the Com-
mittee of Supply, on which a discussion ensued on
♦arious suvjecte._

THE SERPENTINE.

Sir J. SHELLEY complained that no vote had been
taken for improving the Serpentine, after the plan of the
Ornamental Water in St. James%-park.

THE LADIES' GALLERY.

Major EDWARDS called attention to the present in•
convenient state of the ladies' gallery. By an outlay of
2001. the gallery might be made to hold 42 ladies instead
of 21 as at present.
Mr. B. HOPE thought the house should first do some.
thing to improve the interior of the house. He had
beard it compared to a S Nies cottage. It certainly did
not afford that convenience and comfort it ought after
lie much money had been expended on it.
Mr. BENTINCK hoped the house would not ear c-
titan the outlay of money for such purposes until our
defences had been put in a proper and efficient state.
The subject then dropped.
The report was ultimately agreed tn.
MR. DISRAELI'S SPEECH AT SLOUGH.
On the motion that the Speaker leave the chair to go
into Committee of Supply,
Tiscount PALMERSTON said— Sir, the right hen.
gentleman on Friday last, when I was perhaps somewhat
negligent in not being present in the house, made an ap-
peal to me upon a matter of very groat national importance;
and I therefore feel it my duty to take the earliest oppor-
tunity of answering the appeal so made. The right hon.
gentleman on Wednesday last, I think it was, before a
large assembly of his constituents at Slough, made a speech
which, he will forgive me for saying, has, I believe, ex-
cited much astonishment. (Cheers.) It was natural that
the right hon. gentleman should feel elated at the position
in which ho then stood. For the first time he found him-
self in a large assembly in which not merely the majority
supported him, but in which he was unanimously sup-
ported by those who were present—a position of somewhat
navel character to the right hon. gentleman. (Cries of
"Oh," and counter cheers.) It was not surprising that he
should be elated by the spontaneous cheers of 500 or 603
honest but deluded farmers—he, who had been accustomed
only to the cheers of a small band of well-drilled sup-
porters—(" oh, oh," and cheers) —following the lead of a
fugleman like well-drilled soldiers. (Renewed cheers.) It
was only natural that he should bo elated by the.heart-
felt and hearty acclamations of these honest but misguided
farmers—("ob," and laughter)--who saw in him the un-
flinching champion of protection, and the uncompromising
antagonist of free trade. (Laughter.) It was not surprising
that he should be elated by the reception he. met with ;
and therefore if ho had male a speech suitable to
his position as a mini ter of the crown going to
meet his constituents, nobody could have found fault with
him for having availed himself of that occasion. But I
must say that the speech which he did make was of such
a character, that if it had been made by a person in hum-
bler condition, ignorant of national affairs, unaccustomed
to the arts of government, and knowing nothing of the re-
sponsibilities of government, he would haie been treated
with forbearance, and perhaps with compassion. Bat the
right hon. gentleman went there with a speech delibe-
rately Studied and prepared, and announced himself as the
representative of her Majesty's Government. What there-
fore fell from his lips was of the greatest importance, not
merely on account of the matter it contained, but on ac-
eount of the person by whom the speech was pronounced.
Now, sir, the right hon. gentleman began by stating that
Lord Derby, when he came into office, succeeded to a
heritage of innumerable troubles. (Loud Ministerial
cheers.) I remember to have heard with my own ears,
from the lips of Lord Derby himself, that when he came
Into office be found the country in every respect in a sa-
tisfactory condition, and that his only hope was
that when he left office, be that time nearer or more re-
mote, he might leave the country in as good a condition as
that in which he found it. (Loud cheers.) Now Lord
Derby is not a man to make a speech without knowing
Well what he is going to say. He is a man who from the
powers of his mind could have made a speech as well on
the spur of the moment as if he had had a fortnight's pre-
pasetione Yet he required two days to prepare his speech
—not to prepare periods of that eloquence which was to
delight an audience representing almost every class ; but
be required those two days to inform himself on all matters
connected with the Government, and to enable him to
speak with knowledge and authority upon the state of the
country, as it was when he came into office. (Hear.) And
'therefore I say, sir, that the assertion of Lord Derby that
'the country was in a satisfactory state, is a refutation of
the right honourable gentleman's statement that he suc-
ceeded to a heritage of innumerable difficulties. (Cheers.)
Bat then the right honourable gentleman went on enume-
rating what these difficulties were ; and he placed in
the first rank to that which I am now going to direct what
I have to ssy in answer to the right hon. gentleman. The
right hon. gentleman stated that when they came into
office they found the country on the very verge of war;
that the question of peace or war hung not upon days, but
upon hours. (Hear, hear.) Now, air, all I can say is, that,
so far as I am informed—so far as anything I know goes,
with regard to our relations with France at that period—
that statement is utterly and entirely groundless. (Loud
cheers.) It is not only groundless, but it is the very oppo-
site of truth— (renewed cheers)—and I cannot but express
rely suprrise that the right hon. gentleman should have
wade such an assertion:as that, more especially in the place
and at the time he did. (Cheers.) Why, sir, did not the
right hon. gentleman know the gravity of the statement
he was making? (Cheers.) Assuming it to be true, was it
a statement to be made in a booth at Slough to a parcel of
carousing electors ? (Cheers and laughter.) If that state-
ment had boon true, and if the right hon. gentleman
thought it for the public interest that it should be rev:le—
i f the right hon. gentleman thought the country was
apathetic with regard to the national defences, as stated
just now by time hon. gentleman the member for Norfolk
(Mr. Bentinck)—if the right hon. gentleman thought it
right to caution the country against the chance' of danger
which from time hung over our heads, in order that it
might provide a remedy—it should have been in this house,
on the estimates, by the right hon. gentleman speaking
with the responsibility of a Minister from the Treasury
bench. that a statement of that description should have
been made. (Loud cheers.) I deny that statement utterly
and entirely. (Cheers.) On Friday last, when Lord John
Russell alluded to the subject, the right hon. gentleman,
with an sir of triumph, got up and cited something that 1
said in answer to a question as a proof of that statement ;
and he referred to other circumstances connected with
the French ambassador. I say that the words of mine
which he quoted utterly repudiate and demolish the
assertion which he male. He quoted the answer
which I made to an honourable member who asked a
question which I thought calculated to give offence to the
Emperor of France. I said that before I answered the
question, I should wish to ask the house whether it was
their wish and intention that the intimate and confidential
relations which then existed between England and France
should be maintained, or whether it was their wish and
intention to infuse a spirit of irritation, bitterneas, and
ani:nosity into those relations. (Hear, hear.) I said no-
thing about war. What I said was that we were upon a
footing of most intimate relations with Fiance, but that I
'thought a repetition of questions such as that' which had
bee" proposed, which were personally aimed, and in a very
offensive manner against the sovereign of France, were '
calculated to ithose friendly relations. ( Rear, hear.)
My assertion i then was that our relations with France wore
intimate an
The right
When was it that that asser-
tion
was made'
before th© lraitieht hon. gentleman says that it was
43 hears
hours went out of offi.:e.
Then I say that 48 before the late government fell
our relations with Termite) were intimate and confidential
But he says that the French
is ambassador
wi suddenly quitted
Englaiti ; and he aided--" It known that ambas-
aatiors do not suddenly leave those coSuenizsit which they
are accredited without ite.inaplyinn,
countries."
a dis•
-
till-W.l state of the relations bet7ween thosneg
But does not the right hon. gengentan knowhilthtartietshe
. French ambassador (than whom there is not a more honest
and patriotic wan, anal one more thoroughly imbued with
the love of his own country, but at the same time deeply
imbued with the desire to render the alliance between
Eugland and France of mutual advantage to both cowl-
trios), that Count Persigny, the model of plain dealing,
want over for a fortnight to France on his ownaairs, and
was in France when the change of government took place?,
Meer, hear.) Instead of going away coincidentt
t
with
h
ithauge of government, he returned at that time. (Hear,
hear.) Instead of the departure of the French tni. as-
seder flour England happening to coincide with the
change of government, I believe that two days after-
wards he returned to England- Therefore, so far as any
inference is to be drawn from that, it is valueless for the

right hon. gentleman's purpose. But will not the right
hon. gentleman explain what were the grounds on which
he madethat most injudicious and improper statement ?
(Hear, hear.) It was a statement calculated to affect the
public credit, a statement calculated to throw distrust into
all our commercial transactions, because when men are
told that they were totally ignorant that we were within
a few hours of war with France, how can we expect confi-
dence to exist with regard to the commercial relations of
the country ? Is it not an indiscretion on the part of the
ministers of the Crown thus to throw distrust into all the
commercial transactions of the country? If the statement
had been well founded and in accordance with the facts it
was an improper statement to make there and then.. But
if it was not so, if the right bon. gentleman had no state
reasons wherewith to justify his opinion; I envy him not
the state of mind which led him, in order to gain a little
popularity for the government to which he belongs, to as-
sert that they had accommodated a matter which with the
late government was calculated to produce a war with
France. And " war" was the term he used, and " hours"
the period, it was not a mere interruption of our friendly
relations, but actually war with our ally. (Hear.) But if
this statement was initirious and indiscreet with reference
to the affairs of this country, how much more was it inju-
rious with regard to our relations with France ? Will not
that power feel that it has been accused of a covert inten-
tion to attack this country within an hour, without our
being prepared for it? Is not that imputing to France
something approaching to disloyalty and treachery ? I
call upon the right hon. gentleman to explain or retract
the assertion he then made. (Hear.) I again affirm, speak-
iug from-my knowledge as the then First Lord of the Trea-
sury, that there was nothing whatever between the twogo-
vernments to indicate, in our opinion, any probability of
there being any seriousdispute, much less the state of things
which the right hon. gentleman has so strongly described.
There may have been differencesbetween the governments,
after the present government came into office, there may have
. been charges or complaints of intentions evaded and pro-
mises broken. That I know nothing about. It is possible
that that imminence of war which the right hon. gentle-
man has attempted to charge upon our administration, may
have taken place after the present Government came into
office. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman went on. in that
boasting speech, to allude to the affair of the Cagliari, and
he claimed credit for the present Government for having
rescued our countrymen from the dungeon in which they
were immurred, and for having brought them to this. coun-
try. (Loud cheers from the Ministerial side.) But these
men had been set free, and handed over to the charge of
the consuls at Naples, before the present Government came
into office. (Hear.) They had both been rescued from the
dungeon, and placed in a comparatively healthy place of
imprisonment before the present Government came into
office. (No, no.) Brit as to the trial to which they have been.
brought, I expected an answer to the question that was put
about half an hoar ago-I expected the right hon. gentle-
man to say that they had been unjustly tried- that the law
officers hal advised that compensation was due-that the
Government had demanded that compensation' and had
triumphantly obtained it. That yet remains to be stated.
(Hear.) That was one of the boasts which the right hon.
gentleman made. Then he went on to say-for the greater
part of his speech seemed to be an attack upon the late Go-
vernment - that there was an intrigue carried on-I pre-
sume by us-to bring about about a war between Sardinia
and Naples. I utterly deny that there is any truth in that
assertion ' • and I have no doubt that the right hon. gentle-
man will have the goodness to state the grounds on which
it was made. He aways says that they have performed
wonders in the •way of finance. He says that there was an
immense deficit-millions of deficit-(cheers from the Go-
vernraent side)- and that this immense deficit had been got
rid of simply by a small tax upon ardent spirits and a penny
duty upon bankers' cheques. (Hear.) Why, sir, if an im-
mense deficiency is to be got rid of by such, easy methods
the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer would be much
easier than it is. (A. laugh.) But I regret to say that
the Government have only proposed that which they were
afraid to meet. (Hear.) They have thrown uponother years
that deficiency which they shrink to meet this year. (Hear,
hear.) So far from that being a subject of boast, if it is
their lot to bring forward a budget next year, as theyseein
to suppose it will be, I think their vaunting will bo its own
punishment, and that they will then have a larger defici-
cisncy to contend with. (Hear, hear.) The next point on
which the right hon. gentleman belauded himself and his
colleagues, and cast opprobrium upon us was the question
of India. The right hon. gentleman said that our policy
was one of unmitigated vengeance and massacre. On this
I may appeal to the words I uttered many months ago, as
intimating the policy which we had recommended to Lord
Canning, and which I have no doubt he was about tofollow.
I stated at a public meeting-not like that which the right
hon. gentleman addressed on Wednesday-that the policy
of Lord Canning would bo to punish the guilty, to spare the
innocent, and to reward the deserving. (Hear, hear.) That
is the policy by which we stand-not the policy of massacre
and confiscation. (Hear.) Therefore it is a libel upon us
to accuse either us or him of having fallen back upon
principle of unmitigated vengeance and general massacre.
(Hear, hear.) But the riga hon gentleman said they were
going to rebuild and reconstruct the government of India
upon a secure and sure foundation ; and the method by
which they aim at that is by sending forth to all the world
and publishing to all the nations of India, a proclamation
the purpose of which tended to the dismemberment of our
empire, and the object of which was to weaken and and-=r-
mine the power of the Governor-General of India. (Hear.)
And that is their reconstruction of our Indian empire.
Bat the right hon, gentleman was somewhat severe upon
his colleagues. He said, speaking of the manner in which
the late debate had been conducted, that the only speeches
he thought worth mentioning were those of members not
connected with the Government. Anybody who heard
that speech, and knew nothing more of the matter, would
suppose that the Government had not said a word, and
that the whole defence of the Government was left to inde-
pendent members. (Hear, hear.) Did the right hon. gentle-
man forget that there were four speeches-five, indeed-
made from the Treasury benches, all remarkable speeches ?
(Hear, hear.) Did he forget the speech of the Solicitot-
Gen-ral —a speech which I shall not easily forget ? (Hoar,
hear.) That was a speech of great ability—of great promise
-and one that, even though made against us, I was g 1.1,1
to hear from any member of this house-especially from
one who is a distinguished member of his profession.
(Hear.) If was a speech, no doubt, somewhat forensic in
its character-that is to say it was the speech of an
advocate speaking from a brief, and liable to be met by an
hon. and learned member on the other side. (Hear, hear,
and "No, no.") But it wasan admirable speech, and not
one to be passed over asit was by the right hen. gentlernao.
There was the speech of the Attorney-General for Ireland
- a speech marked by the national eloquence and the manly
power with which be always addressed the house -not s
crnamental as the speech of the Solicitor-General-(a laugh)
-but still a speech which, being made in defence of the
Government, was entitled to some notice from the right
hon. gentleman, (Hear, and laughter.) Then there was
the speech of the Under-Secretary of State (Mr. Hardy)
also a very able speech-and also the speech of Lord Stanley,
now appointed to the Presidency of the Board of Control
a speech of calm and sound argument, which ought not to
have been passed over as it was. (Hear.) It is true that
Sir J. Pakington, Mr. Henley, Mr. Walpole, and others of
his colleagues, held their tongues-I think very prudently
-they probably felt that the least said the soonest
men led," rnd accordingly left their policy to be defended
by those who were not in the cabinet, anti were not respon-
sible for it. But certainly • those members of the Govern-
ment who did speak have a right to protest against the
slight that was put upon them by the right hon. gentleman.
Then he takes a view of the relative position of the two
parties in the house, and makes what he conceives an al-
most overpowering discovery. He says that there is at
present in this country what has not existed since the
time of Charles 11.-namely a cabal. (Cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) He says that upon this side of the
house there exists a most extraordinary, a most anj ustiti-
able, and a most unheard of intention to dispossess the Go-
vernment of office. (Laughter.) The word " cabal," if
I understand it right, means only a party consisting of a
small number. I take it that the distinction between a
cabal and a party is that between few and many. Well, if
those who sit on this side of the house are deserving to be
called a " cabal " because they are few I do not see
the ground for tho alarm which the right hon. gent'e-
man expresses at their designs; for those designs, how-
ever, unheard of • and alarming, and mischievous, are
designs which a few will find it difficult to carry into
execution. Bat when he complains that so long as his
Government has been established it has been the object of
incessant intrigues and attacks, I should like to know who
leads those attacks. (Hear.) He cannot charge us who
sit on these benches with doing so. On the other hand we
have acted with the most kind forbearance towards him.
(Cheers and laughter.) And it has come to my ears that
many of those who wish us well have thought that we
were neglecting and shrinking from our duty - that we
were allowing the Government to go on from blunder to
blunder, proving every day its incapacity to govern, and
its unworthiness of the confidence of the house and the
country. (Hear.) We did not pursue that factious course
which the right hon. gentleman has attributed to us; but a
case arose which appeared to ua to involve the utmost
danger to our empire in India, and in which, as stated by
an hon. member, the course pursued by the Government.
might have subjected them to impeachment, as tending to
disturb our possessions in India, and to throw dismay and
discouragement amongst our troops. That occasion having
arisen, I should have been ashamed of myself if I had not
stepped forward to endeavour to procure the opinion of
the house on conduct so extraordinary, and so unworthy
of a Government. (Hear.) But if it were such a factious
proceeding that within three months of the formation of
the Government a vote of censure should be moved upon
them, let the right hon. gentleman recollect what has oc-
curred in former sessions, and he will find that he has him-
self been guilty of the same factious proceeding ; but those
votes of censure were negatived from time to time by
small numbeetreesd,ceienrewthlialayiilns.hlywteHhellaeenafrrnoi.orftmht hon. gentleman would
ebTdeh. Then, we
chhwaater
gaiesr are
the
againstd, chargetthhies
aI ra
cabalhins
is
csea;xl lci
(Hear,prosen t
hGeoavr e)r n n
Butt ,
taini
ed Iriaecriht
°tub! mg e entirelyetle man
etrhg
et. a o a
us with obtaining a knowledge of foreign affairs by un-
constitutional means. I hope he will be good enough to
specify what he means by that. (Hear, hear.) No
doubt we do know a good deal about foreign affairs ; and
it would be very represensible if we did not, having been
in office fur a considerable time. And I hope we know a
little about domestic affairs too. (Hear, hear ) But I
should like to know who those foreigners are whoare cabal-
ling with us about deposing the right hon. gentleman from
his seat. If it were true that we had brought the country
to the verge of. war it is not very likely that the represen-
tatives of foreign governments would be desirous to restore
us to office-they would be more likely to wish for the con-
tinuance of the more peaceable government which the, right
diate the chaile which the right gent mates
hon. gentleman represents.
.(Hear,
hon.hear.) I entirely repo.
against us of ,Obtaining information byriuc,nctonostuitutiotnal
man attacks the press. I leave the press ,
means and by, foreign intrigues. But the
to
dehfen.d4ietsnellt-
it is quite able to do so. (Hear, h-ar.)
Bu
that somecandida tea for office are contributorst wthneethehe aprsesys
press,
of shouldn th: it
dkee
ot
ro
tkhne,
twi
sheeathhe)r
haveth e renaorte
press" for the purpose of bringing themselves into office.
the
caonnYtrhiobnulegtelnttole`m` thene
(Cheers) Those are the grounds on which I object to
speech of the right hon. gentleman. I deny altogether, as
far as my knowledge goes, the assert ion that there was any
chance of w. r between En;land and France at the time We
left oilier. (Hear, hear ) I say that our relations wein
most friendly, intimate, and confidential; and therefore, ae
far as we are concerned, that assertion is entirely without
foundation. I sly that when it is asserted that we art
cabal, I core not for that assertion; it implies only that we
ore few in number; and the result will show which of the
to les has the greatest number of adherents in the house:.
But I deny further, if we are a cabal, and are aiming at up-
setting the present Government, that this is a novel pro-
, "eveiirni4. (Hear, hear.) To say that such a proceeding had
tujeouown from the
t
ectimo eheosfrireel so competent a
harlesll.isanassert;
authority as the right hon gentleman. (Hear, heard)
But I will state whet I think is a novelty-not that there
olio old be a caballing opposition, but that-there should be a
fa .t. fouseovo-
_utnent-(hear)-thatthereshouldbe a govern-
ment carrying into office all the factious feelings by which