The Sun.
London, England, 1867-05-14 00:00:00

as applied to individuals, but I am disposed to question the
use of "obsolete." (Laughter.) I presume it is meant to
express " wornt-out," but it does not make the epithet
more compliment:try. (Laughter.) Put he described them
as obsolete incendiaries awl sputters of stale sedition.
-(lTear, and laughter.; I qu:sstion altogether the p-tvience
of denunciations of this vague and general kind by en ad-
viser of the p-own and a leader of this House of Parlia-
ment, eon...lliad in terms which it is free to any parson to
use against the most temperate expressions of. the most.
reasonable ailvorsaries, which cannot be brought to any
distinct test, and which Is does not :tt the time illustrate
by unfolding the statement or the name of the person he
thinks right to characterise. But I may say to the right
hon. gentleman that when authority comes into the field
for the purpose of forbidding or denouncing, unless it can
carry out the prohibition or denunciation upon the point at
issue, the result is that authority loses its credit and
power. (Hear.) If there have been spouters of sedition in
London or elsewhere,awho have received couatenanc,e
from men in this house, it is desirable that the right hon.
gentleman should cause these persons to be called to ac-
count before the proper tribunals, so that if guilty they
should be visited with the punishment they deserve, and if
not guilty, that the party making attacks of this kind
should be reprehended by the house. The difficulty which
the right hon. gentleman has to encounter arises from the
nature of the subject. The borough franchise is a question
of gloat breadth and depth,.:Td the arguments which are
employed respecting it turn upon old constitutional
principles. The objections taken to it are not of a
character to be settled by an adverse vote of this
house ; for, in the belief of those who oppose
the franchise, the distinction to be taken between
the possession or non-possession of a political right
is unjust, offensive, and adverse to the fixed and general
convicawasof_th.o people. (Ileax, hear). Tlte rig 4 hon.
gentleman will readily draw a distinction bAwoen factious
opposition and the sense of an obligation which cannot be
escaped from, to save the house, and save the Legislature,
and save the country, as far as possible, from the incon-
veniences mind, it may be, the perils of a protracted agita-
tiOn. After what has been said with respect to the Scotch
franchise, the right hon. gentleman is himself his own
Most formidable difficulty ; for I tell him that no one has
struck a heavier blow at the franchise for England than he
haS by the Scotch plan, which confers the franchise with-
outThiOsing any offensive distinctions between man and
man. Let the right.hon. gentleman do the same thing
with regard to the borough franchise for England, and all
difficulties will disappear from his sight, and he will have
reason to congratulate the house, and claim credit for
himself for having conciliated opponents and caused re-
sistance to disappear with regard to a subject upon which
all the minds of the people are both excited and exercised.
(Hear, hear.)

Colotril FRENCH submitted that no case Ind been
made out for the increase of Scotch representatives, and
that Ireland had a far stronger claim to an augmentation
of members.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I wish to
make a few observations on the bill I have asked leave to
introduce, and which the right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for South Lancashire assumes is so very different from
the English bill, but which the Government thinks is
identical with it. The principle of the English bill, that
the bona fide payment of rates should bathe test of fitness,
for the franchise, is also the principle of the Scotch fran-
chise, and therefore, making allowance for the difference
between the two countries, I am at a loss to understand the
great distinction which is to create so much popularity as
regards the Scotch measure, and such distrust as regards
the borough franchise in England. With respect to the
English bill nothing has occurred in this houSe of
a discouraging character. It has been brought
in under circumstances of great difficulty ; but,
after repeated discussions, the house has recorded its
opinion that the principle on which the bill is founded
is the right principle. To that principle the Government
mean to adhere, and if it were interfered with they would
no longer undertake the conduct of the measure, but upon
all other points they are prepared to consider the conclu-
' sinus of-the house with sincere respect. With regard to
the amount of increase in the Scotch constituenciss, the
effect of the bill will be to double the existing constituen-
cies, which number aoout 53,000—a number not calculated
t i alarm anybody. The county franchise, which will be a'
eopyhold franchise of £lO, will add a considerable number
to the existing constituencies, but not quite so many as iu
the clue of the boroughs. Other objections have boen
taken to certain details of the bill, which will be found
upon a more careful examination of its provisions not to be
well founded. I may also state that no apprehension need
Ama, ant,,t,aued on thekliabje,ct of boundaries, as it is pro-
posed to appoint. bottudary commissioners in whose justice
and impartiality tho country will have the fullest confi-
dence. Then comes the great question, where are all these
members to come from ? Will they come from their con-
stituencies ? • (Laughter.) The member for South Lan-
cashire says this is a practical, not to say constitutional,
question. But who made it a constitutional question ? The
right hon. gentleman, when I proposed the measure of
1832, said he did not seo any magic in 658 ; there was no
cabalistic charm which should'induee the House of Com-
mons to accept it. (Hear.) It is mull more important
that there should be a fair representation, than to adhere
to any numbers, for it is a practical and not a constitu-
tional question. I shall make the prtiposal I have an-
nounced to-night, and I am convinced it will have the
support of the House of Commons.

After some observations from Mr. Crum-Ewing, Mr.
Kinnaird, Mr. Oiaufurd, and Sir G. Montgomery, leave
was given to bring in the bill.