The Sun.
London, England, 1867-04-10 00:00:00

BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS.

Captain ARCIIDALL asked the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer if, in the opinion of her Majesty's Government,
the present tribunal for the trial of election petitions
was a satisfactory tribunal ; and whether he would
consider the advisability of endeavouring to frame
clauses in the Bribery and Corruption Bill which shall de-
fine the limits beyond which clerical interference becomes
"undue influenc3," and which shall state the precise
amount of violence required to constitute a "general riot"
at an Irish election.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
hoped to obtain leave to bring in a bill on the subject
this evening, and to induce the house to read the bill a
second time. on Thursday next. When they went into
committee on the bill the hon. and gallant gentleman
would have an opportunity of suggesting any clauses,
supposing those proposed in the bill were not sufficient
for the purpose intended.
THE REFORM BILL.

Mr. GLADSTONE—As the committee for the represen-
tation of the people was arranged to stand as the first
order for that day, he presumed there would be no dis-
turbance of that arrangement.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
arrangement would be strictly adhered to.
METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

In reply to Mr. TRZEBY,
Mr. HUNT said he could not say why the return or-
dered on the 16th of May relative to the Metropolitan
Board of Works had not been made. The Board formed
no part of the Treasury department, th3refore he could
not say when it would be made.

FALSE WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.

In reply to Mr. ROEBUCK,

Mr. WALPOLE said it was not lawful for magistrates
to sit with closed doors whilst hearing charges against
tradesmen charged with using false weights and measures.

THE METROPOLITAN GAS BILL.

Sir S. NORTHCOTE said he did not intend to proceed
with his bill until after Easter.
THE REFORM BILL.

Mr. GLADSTONE said in the event of this amend-
ment limiting the rateable value in parliamentary
boroughs being adopted in committee, he should move
in the third clause that whenever the rateable value of
any tenant falling below £5 by reason of any deduction
of less than 20 per cent. for gross estimated value the
occupier may claim to vote if otherwise qualified.
THE LONDON, CHATHAM, AND DOVER
RAILWAY.

Sir M. PEW moved for the appointment of a select
committee to inquire into the means adopted by the Lon-
don, Chatham, and Dover Railway Company for raising
the share capital, and exercising their borrowing powers
under tLe various acts of Parliament authorising the con-
struction of the main line and its extensions and

branches.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
could not see how it became consistent with duties of the
House of Commons to undertake the investigation pro-
posed. They all knew and entertained the highest respect
for the hon. member for Bristol ; they all knew the troubled
condition of the railway in question, and they could not but
regret that he had unfortunately become involved with
them. He thought, however, that the house ought to hesi-
tate before they agreed to that motion, because there were
peculiarities about it with which the house had no con-
cern. They were private speculations, and those who em-
barked in them did so at their own risk. He should like
to know where the line was to be drawn if this inquiry
was to take place into the London, Chatham, and Dover
Railway. Why should not inquiries be made into the
affairs of other railway companies? Why should the
position of railways only be inquired into ? Why should
not banks also fall within the scope of Parliamentary
inquiry ? He regretted the motion, but he could not re-
commend the house to agree to it.
Mr. BARING asked the hon. member for Maidstone,
who had the following motion on the paper, whether he
intended to proceed with it :—" As an amendment to Sir
Morton Peto's motion for a select committee on the London,
Chatham, and Dover Railway Company, to add, at end,
and also into the means adopted by three of the mem-
bers for Huntingdon, Bristol, and Dover, for raising money
for the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada, and the London,
Chatham, and Dover Railway.' "
Mr. WHATMAN said he did not intend to proceed with
his amendment. He was quite ready to meet the hon.
gentlemen mentioned in his motion in any way they
thought proper. (Laughter.)
Lord CRANBORNE said he did not know whether the
hon. gentleman who had just sat down implied a challenge
by his observations. (Laughter.) He (Lord Cranborne)
thought it highly unsatisfactory that, after putting an
amendment on the paper, pointing at something like fraud,
that when the time came for bringing it fcrward
he
should fail to substantiate his charges. lie thought it was
desirable that some opinion should be expressed by the
house on such a matter.
Mr. WIIATIIAN said if it was the wish of the house
b was quite ready to go on. (Loud cries of "Go on, go
ou.")
Mr. CRAWFORD rose to order. He thought
it was not competent for the house into his
conduct other than that done in that toinquire
house, ori in his cha-
rector of a member of Parliament.lire
The SPEAKER could not say that the motion pointed
to anything like fraud. He could not say that there was
anything on the paper which was a violation of the rules
of the house.

Mr. GLADSTONE did not think it was the wish of the
house that the matter should go on. There was n? charge
of fraud, therefore the character and' high' lifinOiir 'of 4the
hon. gentlemen mentioned was not impeached. He could
not but regret that the hon. baronet, member for Bristol,
had brought forward the matter, and no one sympathised
with him, who had conferred so great a benefit on his
Country some years ago, more than he did. lie hoped,

however, the motion for the committee would be with-
drawn.

Mr. Baring, Mr. Watkin, and Mr. Hodgson having de-
clared their willingness to defend their conduct when and
wherever it was called in question,
Sir M. PETO said, after the kind remarks of the two
right hon. gentlemen, he could not hesitate to withdraw
his motion. He could not express how deeply he felt the
kind observations that had been made respecting him by
the right hon. gentleman the leader of the house.
The motion was then by leave withdrawn, so also was
the amendment of Mr. Whatman.
OATHS AND OFFICES BILL.
In committee on the Oaths and Offices Bill,

Mr. CANDLISH moved, by way of amendment, the
omission of those portions of the measure which proposed
to allow the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland to be a member
of the Roman Catholic faith.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The right
hon. gentleman the member for the City has observed that
we all know what is the matter with Ireland. I can assure
him, so far as I ant concerned, that I do not share in that
knowledge. 1 know he is an able man, and must be a
favoured man if he is a master of the causes which afflict
that country. I think the debate of this evening must have
given them all reason to feel that there is some truth in the
observations I am making, for at this moment there is a
conspiracy constantly breaking out, for the cause of which
no one has given an authentic reason, which is not indi-
genous, which is said to be imported, and which is assisted,
if it comes from the other side of the Atlantic, by the sym-
pathies of those who formerly went from Ireland. But
there is no doubt that certain effects are produced by these
extraneous agencies, which are extremely perplexing and
inconvenient, not only to those who govern but to those
who are governed, and lam surprised that the right hon.
gentleman should have announced so distinctly that we are
all acquainted with the causes of the discontent which ex-
ist in that country, and which deserves the deepest consi-
deration. The course of the debate has thrown some light
upon that matter. We have had considerable references
made to the conspiracy which is now so prevalent in Ire-
land, and the cause of that has been attributed to the Catho-
lic priesthood. I do not want to go into any detail on that
subject or to divert attention from the simple matter before
us ; but I cannot allow the observations which I have heard
charging sympathy and connivance with the Fenian insur-
rection to the Roman Catholic priesthood, without rising
and stating, as a Minister of the Crown, that from all our
experience in regard to this unfortunate conspiracy, and front
what is occurring at this moment, we have no cause to feel
any distrust of the loyalty of tho Roman Catholic priesthood.
I can truly state that their sympathy with the Crown
and the interests of England, that the information which
they have given, that the counsels they have offered, that
the valuable knowledge for which we are indebted to
them, have greatly assisted us in the management of
affairs of extreme difficulty, and although we have been
obliged to have recourse to severity—l trust the country
will feel that it has not been extreme severity—that it has
been tempered with discretion. (Hear, hear.) Now, with
regard to the question before us, it is very important to
distinguish between the nature of things which seem to be
similar, but which are distinct. The Roman Catholic
Emancipation Act was a statesmanlike settlement, adapted
to the time and circumstances with which former statesmen
had to deal. The act was no doubt founded partly upon
principle, and partly upon expediency of the moment and
requirement of the time. But although I look on that
arrangement to have been au arrangement of very wise and
considerate men, 1 do not feel that we are foreclosed from
considering the policy under which that arrangement was
recommended. With regard to the two offices which are
involved in this discussion, I believe, from what I have
heard, that some years ago people of great authority and
much connected with the settlement of these affairs, that
including the office of Lord Chancellor of Ireland iu the
arrangement then made was an error, and that was a
misconception which confounded that office with the office
of Lord Chancellor of England. (near.) The Lord Chan-
cellor of England is placed in a peculiar position with re
gard to the church. He has great control over its patron-
age, and is the peculiar advisor of the Crown in all
questions connected with the dispensation of church
patronage. There is, therefore, very good reason that,
we would maintain that the constitution of this country
should be Protestant, the office of Lord Chancellor of
England should bo Protestant also ; but there is no-
thing in the office of Lord Chancellor of Ireland to pre-
vent its being held by a Roman Catholic. The office is
in no way connected with the dispensation of church
patronage, nor does it hold those peculiar relations
with the established church which would form a
valid objection. It is simply the highest office, the
greatest prize that is open to the legal profession in Ire-
land, and therefore I think it desirable that every Irish-
man, whatever might be his religion, should have it open
to his ambition. But I thin there is a groat difference be-
tween the offices of Lord-Lieutenant and Lord Chancellor

of Ireland, and that even if there were not such an absolute
distinction it would still bo unwise and indiscrot in tho
Roman Catholics to press further the throwing open of this
office. I think that such a line of conduct would only re-
vive prejudices and call back animosities which we all hope
have passed away, because the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland
is the representative of a sovereign who holds the crown
by a peculiar religious tenure, and such being the case the
Lord-Lieutenant is placed in very peculiar relations with
the Protestant Church in Ireland. 1 think, then, that to
insist on the throwing open of this office would be a course
most unwise, and that it would create great distrust and
dissatisfaction amongst the people of this country, whilst
at the same time it would be a mere shadow to be obtained
at much loss to those who contended for it. I think, there-
fore, that the course taken by my noble friend, the Secre-
tary for Ireland, wes a discreet and wise one, one that can
be defended upon principle; and that if we cross the line
which he lays down we shall create such distrust and alarm
amongst the people of this country as will be a great ob-
stacle and discouragement to those feelings which it has
always been our object to foster. I think that instead of
producing that equality of position and sentiment which is
sought by all of us, its tendency would be to produce some-
thing which would be entirely the reverse. (Hear, hear.)
I shall therefore support the views of my noble friend, as
expressed in the amendment. I am quite prepared to open
tho office of Lord Chancellor of Ireland to Roman Catholics
because I see no reason why differences of religion should
be an obstacle to the acquirement of that office ; but at the
same time I cannot support the other object of this bill. I
think we shall be acting a wise and discreet part in accept-
ing the amendment. (Cheers from both sides of the house.)
Mr. GLADSTONE—The right hon. the Chancellor of
the Exchequer has spoken on this subject with a modera-
tion, and a studious and unaffected concern for the feel-
ings of the people of Ireland which did him honour; but
at the same time it must be obvious to the house that the
argumentative portion of his speech fails entirely of its ob-
ject. To use an old but familiar illustration, " his wheels
draw heavily." (Hear, hear.) I think it is on very nar-
row grounds that he offers opposition to the most important
portion of the bill. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentle-
man began by saying that he did not pretend to know the
sources of all the evils of Ireland, and it would be pre-
sumptuous in mo to contradict him, or to assert for myself
any superiority in such knowledge. But although we
may not be able as yet to heal the wounds of Ireland—
although we may not as yet even have probed them to the
bottom, yet the skilful physician, when dealing with the
constitution of the ;patient, may, pending the ultimate
cure, pursue such mitigating and soothing methods
as must afford him good grounds fer hoping for the ulti-
mately successful treatment of the case. (Hear, bear.)
Now, admitting frankly the difficulties which have been
stated by the right hon. gentleman, yet I must observe
that if we observe the principles of simple justice we may,
with reference to the evils of Ireland, very much assuage
irritation and greatly promote an ultimate cure. The
right hon. gentleman draws a distinction between the
offices of Lord Lieutenant and Lord Chancellor of Ireland
—indeed, with respect to the latter and to repeat the com-
plaint of the hon. member for Armagh, the noble lord the
Secretary for Ireland has submitted to a frightful degra-
dation in throwing open the offices to Roman Catholics.
But the distinction drawn by the right hon, gentleman is
that the Lord Lieutenant holds a peculiar position with
respect to the patronage of the Church. Now it should
be observed that my noble friend proposes to divest
the Lord Lieutenant of all concern in the ecclesiastical
patronage, and even if he did not there would not remain
to the Lord-Lieutenant a shadow of responsibility, because
as is well known, he is completely sheltered by the Home
Secretary, a Minister of the Crown, in whose case, be it
remembered, there is no reason why the office should not
be filled by a Roman Catholic. We are told the Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland is the representative of the Crown ;
and so he is in all matters of ceremonial, courts, and draw-
ing-rooms, and all similar public occasions when the ladies
aro presented to him,with various functions of that descrip-
tion. (A laugh). But his more important functions are
controlled by the Home Secretary, who, as I said before,
may be a Roman Catholic. Well, but the main reason given
by the right hon. gentleman is this—he thinks that the
motion of my hon. friend will revive prejudices and excite
animosities and my hon. friend behind me concurs in that
sentiment. Let me take this opportunity of assuring my
hon. friend that most painful it would bo to me if in sup-
porting this bill I should be injuring those institutions
which ho holds is such just reverence; but when I am
told that we are to apply in Ireland principles different
from those which rule in England and Scotland I demur,
and say we sheuld apply the same principle, namely, that
in as far as may be consistent with the unity of the empire
you should consult, in framing your laws for each country,
the character, dispositions. and convictions of the people of
that country. (Loud cheers.) And I respectfully assure
my
hon.friend that in my belief the best way is to follow
that principle firmly and conscientiously, and consistently
with the principles of civil justice is the way to confirm
and strengthen, not to weaken our institutions, whilst on
the other hand the pursuit of a different policy would be
the sure way to revive prejudice and to create animosities.
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman says that this
motion will revive prejudices, but where?ln Ireland?
Is it a good reason to give the majority of the people
for withholding their civil rights that the minority say
their animosities will be awakened and their prejudices
revived? I think we can forego our prejudices on this

side of the water, and I ask is it fair, just, or equitable '
that we should resist a motion which is calculated to as-
suage prejudices and to soothe wounded feelings ? Shall
we say to England and Scotland, "Even your prejudices
must be consulted ;" but when the people of Ireland de-
mand only their rights every objection must be taken ?
(Hear, hear.) There is no man in this house who seriously
believes—l am sure that the right hon. gentleman will not
urge, and cannot possibly believe, that danger can arise to
the Constitution, the Church, or the religion of the coun-
try from the contingency, perhaps remote, but even if it
were ever so near—that the Lord Lieutenant may be a
Roman Catholic. Ido the right hon. gentleman the jus-
tice to point out to the house that in his speech he has
made no such allegation. He has rested on the ecclesiasti-
cal patronage which is taken away from the Lord Lieute-
nant by the bill ; ho has rested on the representation of
the Crown, which is exercised subject to the control of a
Minister whom the law permits to be a Roman Catholic;
he has dwelt upon the revival of prejudices, which preju-
dices, I say, it would be most unworthy of us to plead
against, the civil rights of the Irish people in a matter
which is Irish, and not English. Of danger to the Consti-
tution the right hon. gentleman has not said ono word.
That danger, I am persuaded, he believes to be a phantom ;
and I say that if there be danger to the Constitution, it
lies in this—in slackness, in reluctance, in niggardliness
on our part in dealing with the claims of Ireland, which
are founded in civil justice, and that to extend to her with
a large and liberal hand that treatment which civil equality
dictates is the true way to consult alike the interests of
religion and the constitution of the country. (Cheers.)
The committee divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment 143
Against it

The amendment was therefore carried. The announce-
ment of the numbers was received with cheers and counter
cheers.

The clause as amended was ordered to stand part of the
bill. •

On the motion of Sir C. 0 LOGHLEN a clause was
inserted to the effect that when the Chancellorship shall
be held by a person not a member of the Established
Church the jurisdiction of nominating delegates to hear
appeals from ecclesiastical courts shall be exercised by such
other of the judges as the Crown shall appoint.
The bill so amended was thereupon passed through
committee and ordered to be reported to the house.
In committee on the Transubstantation Declaration Abo-
lition Bill, Mr. NEWDEGATE moved an amendment
which, while dispensing with the offensive phrases in the
declaration now made by persons being Protestants and
holding public offices, professed agreement in the true,
usual, and literal meaning of the 22d and 28th Articles of
the United Church of England and Ireland. Upon a divi-
sion, however, after much discussion, the amendment was
rejected by 135 to 76 ; and the bill passed through com-

mittee.
The Criminal Law Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Fortifications (Provision for Expenses) Bill was
passed through committee ; and, some other measures
having been forwarded a stage, the sitting was brought to
a close at 25 minutes past one o'clock.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.

NEWMARKET CRAVEN MEET IN G.

TUESDAY.

At the betting-rooms on Monday night there was some
brisk speculation on the Biennial, the amount of money
for which D'Estournel was backed bringing Mr. Savile's
colt to the position of first favourite. Vauban, who came
in for a good deal of support, left off a point below, but
this was only when the Marquis of Hastings had accepted
1,000 to 500 about D'Estournel. Dragon was backed for
the Derby at 1,400 to 100, and several other horses had
friends at the quoted price. The wind continued very
boisterous throughout the night, so that the effects of the
rain on the previous day were not observable on the heath ;
on the contrary, the dust was driven in blinding storms
across the heath, rendering it particularly uncomfortable.
The going was all that could be desired, and but for the
wind and dust the day would have been thoroughly enjoy-
able. The company present exceeded that of the previous
day, notwithstanding the disastrous time the backers had
of it ; and the programme presented a very full appearance,
bringing together very decent fields. Owing to ono of the
matches set for the day falling through, racing did not com-
mence till half an hour after the time fixed, when it opened
with the match between the Duke of Newcastle's Novice
and Lord Westmorland's Wings of a Dove filly, which re-
sulted in favour of the latter. The only remarkable featute
about this affair was that Kenyon scored a victory, which
is getting quite a rare thing for him to do now, as the
backers of his mounts can testify, who have had a most
heart-breaking time of it lately. The Sweepstakes of 50
soya, for 2-yr-olds, brought out a dozen of youngsters, and
the winner turned up in the Duke of Hamiltoa's Leonie,
who started first favourite at 2 to 1, and took up the
running immediately the flag fell, and, never being ap-
proached, woa in a common canter by three lengths. She
is a chestnut filly, by Newminster out of Gaspard's dam,
by Hampton, and from her magnificent shape, as well
as horn her performance, is very likely to turn out
the Achievement of her year. The Duchess, another of
the speedy progeny of St. Albans, cut down a couple of
opponents in the succeeding race ; which was followed by
a sweepstakes of 50 soya, where Baron Rothschild's grand
filly, Hippie, found no difficulty of disposing of the
pair opposed to her. Then came the race of the day,
the Ninth Biennial, producing 15 competitors, amongst
whom were some whose performance was fraught with
much future interest, as it involved the fate of more than
one of the big races to come. D'Estournel steadily kept
his position of favourite up to the start. His backers
would no doubt have wished his steadiness to have con-

tinned further; but he himself seemed of a different opi-
nion, for he made such an exhibition of himself as to
stamp him a perfect brute, and thereby promising to lot
all his friends and adherents into the hole who have
backed him for the Derby. Tom Aldcroft had certainly a
nice chance of recommencing his career in the saddle—
first with the Buckenham dam filly, who bolted out of the
course, and then with this pantomimic animal. The race,
when it commenced in earnest, showed but the three placed
in it, as all the rest were done for a quarter of a mile from
home, Mr. Savile's horse being out of the race as soon as
anything, running unkindly all the way. The finish be-
tween Vauban and Wroughton was really splendid, and
the head decision was fought for inch by inch. The New-
market Handicap, following in the groove of the other
spring events, resulted in the veriest outsider in the bet-
ting winning anyhow. Such a season of reverses to
backers and " floorers" to prophets has surely never been
known; and what will become of both of these ill-used
classes of the sporting community, if this bad luck con-
tinues, is a melancholy conjecture. Leases, however,
should have been backed, from the report of his having
beaten Quick March in a trial previous to Northampton,
as also from his improved running on the first day ;
but the " talent" were all mad after Ansley, who got no
nearer than third. The only other event deserving of no-
tice is the Beacon Stakes, and that only from the ridiculous
ease with which Grimston " walked in" in front of the
three others who tried to race with him. Below will be
found a full detail of the day's proceedings. After the de-
cision of the Biennial some heavy betting followed on the
Two Thousand, the chief feature of which was the im-
mense support awarded to both Vauban and Julius, who
were backed for several thousands of pounds. The other
transactions will be sufficiently explained by the table of
quotations appended to the day's running :
Match ; 100, h ft. First half of Abingdon Mile.
Lord Westmorland's f, by Lambton—Wings of a Dove,
2 yrs, 7st 111 b
Duke of Newcastle's Novice, 3 yrs, Bst 71b (A Edwards) 2
Betting-6 to 4on the Wings of a Dove filly, who made
the whole of the running, and won in a canter by three
parts of a length.

A Plate of 50 sous, for two-year olds ; colts Bst 1011), fillies
Bst 71b; winners of a plate or sweepstakes value 50 sovs,
including the winners own stake 51b, of two such races
or ono of 200 soya value 71b extra ; the first half of
Ab.M.
Duke of Hamilton's Leonie, by Nawminster—Gaspard's
dam, Bst 71b (Edwards) 1
Mr. G. Hodgman's Vex, Bst 71b (Parry) 2
Mr. Padwick's Milton, Bst 101 b (T. French) 3
Mr. Do la Ce's Lady Glencora, Bst 7lb (Lynch) 0
Mr. Chaplin's Offering, Bst 71b (Cannon) 0
Lord Westmorland's Earnley, Bst 101 b (J. Goater) 0
Mr. Fleming's Jasmine, Bst 71b (Cartwright) 0
Mr. Ten Broeck's Stockholm, Bst 1011) (Fordham) 0
Mr. Savile's f, by Skirmisher—Buckenham's dam, Bst 71b
(T. Aldcroft 0
Mr. Ward's Haze, Bst 7lb (Norman 0
Lord Vivian's Bouquetiere, Bst 71b (Challoner 0
Mr. G. Angell's The Shrew, Bst 71b (Huxtable 0
Betting-2 to 1 each agst Leonia and Milton, 7to 1 agst
Vex, 10 to 1 agst Bouquetiere, and 100, to 8 agst the
Buckenham dam filly. The moment the flag fell Loonie
took up the running, and, never being headed, won in a
canter by three lengths from Vex, who ran second through-
out ; Milton was a bad third, Bouquetiere fourth; Offering,
who ran prominently until entering the cords, was next,
slightly in advance of E trnley and The Shrew. The last
pair wero Haze and Stockholm. The Buckenham dam
filly the moment the dig fell bolted out of the course.
A Sweepstakes of 100 soya each, h ft, for three year old
fillies ; Bst 91b each ; a winner of 400 sous 51b extra;

D.M. ; 5 subs.
Mr. Edgar's The Duchess, by St. Alban's—Bay Celia,
Bst 91b (Cannon) 1
Mr. Payne's Pussy, Bst 91b (Challoner) 2
Baron Rothschild's Camilla, Bst gib . (J. Daley) 3
Betting-5 to 4 agst The Duchess, and sto 2 each agst
Camilla and Pussy. Camilla made play with a clear lead of
Pussy, the favourite lying last till the commencement of
the cords, where Camilla was beaten, and The Duchess,
taking up the running, won easily by half a length; bad
third.

A Sweepstakes of 50 sovs each, for three year olds; colts
Bst I.olb, fillies Bst 7lb ; not engaged in the Two Thou
sand Guineas, Newmarket, or the One Thousand Guinea

Stakes ; D.M. 5 subs.
Baron Rothschild's Hippia, by King Tom—Daughter of
the Star, Bst 71b ' (Daley) 1
Captain Hawksley's Bismarck, Bst 101 b ..... (T French) 2
Mr. Thellusson's Pirate Chief, Bst 101 b (Fordham) 3

Betting-5 to 4 agst Hippia, 2to 1 agst Bismarck, and 3
to 1 agst !irate Chief. Pirate Chief ramie the twining for