The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-11 00:00:00

in a very full house that measure was rejected by the
House of Commons by a verrlarge majority. I believe 1
that at this moment the House of Commons is engaged in
considering another of the meagre es to which the noble
earl referred, and it is impassible for me to say at what
conclusion that house may arrive. The noble: earl, who
seems to think that her Majesty's Government will give
their support to all the measures which may be sent up
to this house by the House of Commons, has alluded to
the measure which may be sent up founded upon Mr.
Locke King's proposition to extend the 101. franchise
to counties. I can disabuse the noble earl of any impres-
sion he may have formed by assuring him that such a
measure will meet with the most strenuous opposition I
can offer to it. (Cheers.) It will be for your lordships if
referredeerairnlghtahse present
sahnoyuoldf tchoemme euansdnerreaytonurwchoirnashidtehreatninobnlde
session, to express your opinion upon each of them singly
at
ined
,ited separately,
without e a
rceo
fredrinetg to , e
et
et h meritsthosee
ro f eachgue questions
epersopwoi st ih-
which it is supposed they may be connected. With re-
gard to the bill now before us, although I am not anxious
either for its adoption or rejection, I am not prepared to
offer any opposition to a measure which immediately
affects the composition of the House of Commons, which
has been passed by that house, and which appears to me
of such intrinsic unimportance that it ought not to be
allowed to add to the causes of difference which exist be-
tween the two houses. If I thought that the existing law
afforded an actual security for the independence the sta-
tion, and the position of those who sit in the House of
Commons, and that the adoption of this bill would materi-
ally diminish the status and position of members of that
house, I should hesitate long before I acceded to the pass-
ing
of the measure, although it comes up to us recom-
mended
by a large majority of the House of Commons.
But when I find that from time to time the law upon 1
this subject has been relaxed ; that the question has
always bees dealt with, not as part of a great measur e
of reform, but as a separate measure ; that in the course
of the present reign the rigour of the previous provi-
sions,
which required that the qualification of members
should consist exclusively of lauded property, has been
relaxed and extended to property of every kind ; and
when I see that the amount of qualification required is
not, in the present day, what can be regarded as a
guarantee for the independence of any man who mixes
in society, and who has to maintain his position as a
member of the House of Commons—such a guarantee
of independence as would withdraw him from the exer-
cise of undue influence—l confess it does not appear to
me that the alteration proposed by this bill would effect
any real and substantial change in the position of mem-
bers of the House of Commons. There is one difficulty
which I certainly do anticipate, and which I think re-
quires some consideration before this measure is sane- ,
tioned. I refer to the probability—or, at all events the
possibility—that the absence of any qualification may
lead to vexatious contests and to vexatious opposition—
(hear, hear)—by putting up on the hustings men of
straw, merely with the view of causing vexation and
annoyance. (Hear, hear.) I know I may be asked
whether such instances have occurred in Scotland, where
no qualification for members of Parliament is required—
(hear, hear)—and how a system can be defended
with reference to English members of Parlia-
ment which is not considered necessary in the case of
Scotch members. Ido not say now whether I think it
desirable or not that the bona fide qualification of mem-
bers of the House of Commons should be of a somewhat
higher character. I do not agree with the noble earl
who introduced the bill that the requirement of a quali-
fication is a violation of any of those civil and natural
rights which belong to individuals. [Earl Fortescue
was understood to say that he did not state that as his
own opinion, but that it was entertained by some per-
sons.] lam gratified to learn that the noble earl does
not rely upon that principle, but when I find that the
qualification of members of the House of Commons has,
from time to time, been altered and relaxed ; that such
I steps have been taken, apart from all measures of reform,
that the law relating to qualification, such as it is, has
in many cases, almost by the connivance of the House
of Commons, been evaded; that almost any person may
obtain—l do not say whether justifiably or not—a
qualification which is not real ; that the fact of qua•
lifications beirg so granted, may, owing to biueders
or burgling on the part of lawyers, lead compara-
tively innocent men into the commission of ap-
parently great offences, which no one thinks
very discreditable, but which may expose them
to grave censures and animadvert ion, and subject
them to heavy penalties—when I find that this is the
case, and that the House of Commons, by a considerable
majority, have sent up to your lordships a bill with the
view of abolishing a requirement which is in many in-
stances evaded, I think—apart from questions upon
which we may have, and have had, considerable diffe-
rence with the House of Commons, and others which
may come before us, upon which it may be necessary,
and essential that we should make a stand against dan-
gerous
propositions emanatis g from that assembly—that
in point of policy and wisdom it is is not advisable and
expedient, it your lordships think this subject is really
and substantially immaterial, that for the purpose of
keeping upa vain and shadowy app arance of gealifica-
tion you should unnecessarily put yourselves in opposi-
tion to the House of Commons upon a question which
materially and directly and exclusively concerns the
composition of that house. (Hear.) For these reasons,
without saying that I should have thought it necessary
to introduce a measure of this kind, but finding that it
has been introduced, and has received the assent of the
House of Commons. and believing that it would be
practically innocuous—that, if unproductive of any very
considerable benefit, it would be perfectly immaterial, I
certainly am not disposed to offer any opposition to the
bill, aid I would humbly advise your lordships not to
reject it. (Hear, hear.)
Toe Duke of NEWCASTLE said, that as the bill ap-
peared to have been supported by faint praise, and, en
other hand, to have been opposed by hesitating dislike,
he was anxious to explain that be supported the bill on '
its merits, because he thought it important in itself and
in its consequences. The noble duke opposite said he
opposed the bin, because he did not think that any
grievance existed in consequence of the present state of
the law I but it was astonishing that the noble duke
should have made such an assertion, when their lord-
ships had heard that a gentleman was now undergoing
imprisonment for a violation of the law, when they
hoard from the noble earl who moved the bill that
that viola:ion was participated in by nearly one-half
of the.members of the House of Commons, and after
they had heard the evidence of a noble lard behind
him as the results of election committees. (Hear, hear.)
He had had himself a great many years' Experience of
the House of Commons, and had sat on election commit-
tees, and he recollected instances of hardship occurring
in both directions. Gentlemen notoriously not pos-
reseed of the qualification required by law bed had their
eeats disputed, but bad been seated on petitions; while,
on the other Land, gentlemen notoriously pceissessed cf
ample qualification, but in whose title lawyers found
means to detect certain flaws, had actually been un-
seated on a technicality of law. The noble earl who op-
posed the bid considered this matter as part of a great
constitutional change, and the bill as a concession to a
party advocating greater and more exter sive changes.
Now, he could net ce.nceive that this was a great change
in the constitution. The present law was not very an-
cient in its origin, but was introduced by an act of the
oth of Queen Anne, under the Harley Government, and
was passed for a special par ty purpose. The stock-brokers
and merchants cf that day were opposed to the Govern-
ment, and therefore, to throw the balance in favour of
tie Government, the act was passed, essentially in-
tended to iscelude the trading interests from the House
of Cm-tenons, and requiring a landed qualification for
members. So the la ‘v remained until about 20 years
ago, when a mitigation of the law was introduced, and
the same amount of qualification in personal estate was
placed on an equal footing with a landed qualification.
(Hear, bear.) Still, a great many anomalies remained
in respect to this matter at the present moment. The
Scotch reembere the members for th© universities, and
the eldest sons Of peers, needed not to possess any p: eta
niary qualification to sit in the House of Commons. But
a greater anomaly than all was that the son cf a knight
of the shire was entitled to sit in the House of Corn•
wens without a pecuniary qualification, though his
father was required to have a pecuniary qualification of
6001 a-year ; and the moment his father died, he would
then become disqualified to sit unless be possessed a cer-
tain amount per annum. (Hear, hear.) Another ano-
maly was, that no pecuniary qualification was required
from a peer to sit in the House of Lords. (Hear, hear.)
He attached importance to the present bill, because a
law which was frequently evaded inflicted a moral evil
on the country, and ought to be repealed as speedily as
possible. Again, the maintecance of the prevent qualifi-
cation for members of the House of Commons excluded
cici:auhtraeri
airyi
iefil ocen:htetiaeohduna
rt.
arl dalliance i a
he
yc e
the with
establishmentw
many good members from that house who were unable to
beenll
certainlythreatened
hOfehthile'eprLees'enn't"
had
inno ftehaer ofeththeorseheevhieles
in the event of the existing qualification being
Cnoemlmonegheer
woad
dirhede
—flienoTdelYWiththbatinktrhun fdanidannidsenf
rweeitphecrtes
swin-
dlers. In the first place, the exi-ti lawPl
ex-
clude characters of that kind, but hnegslmuld r 'nor t
ofse ecaommmeaeshusr,e pbaustseadizotwointhly toe tlneljeeHuctoluesoef
ptoenttli
Lords, which would abolish that privilege froin
which the members of the Legislature at present erd
arreste,c d
(Hear.) He certainly did not dread the passing jef the
present HI on the ground that the alteration of the law
would admit into the House of Commons some artisans
and poor men, for he should like to see in that house
representa4
' lives 0-1 all classes, and there was not a greater
nab-take than to suppose, in respect to the Chartists, or
any particular class of men, that it was desirable to ex-
clude them from the House of Commons. On the con-
trary, he thought that there would be great safety in
admitting to that assembly men of all elatitea He did
not think that any fear need be entertained of increased
corruption in the House cf Commons in consequence of
the abolition of the property rptelificatiou. Such poor
men as might be introduced into Parliament through tie
instrumentality of the present measure would be found,
he had no doubt, much more honest and independent
than some cf these speculative politicians who got them-
selves returned for the purpose of supporting any Govern-
ment
from whom they might obtain advantages either
for themselves or foreheir friends. (Hear.) He supported
the hill, therefore, because he believed it to be a moral
measure, because it would effect an improvement of a
realty useful and substantial character, and because the
existing law, to use the words of a learned judge, was
"a mockery, a delusion, and a snare." (Hear, hear.) 1
Earl GRANVILLE—Without wishing or intending 1
to trouble your lordships with many observations, I may
be permitted to Ray that tho bill before us has not only
En?, concurrence, but the concurrence of those noble lords
with whom I have the pleasure of acting in public life.
(Hear.) I feel that I should be
merely wasting the time
of the house if I
were to repeat the arguments which