The Sun.
London, England, 1804-06-16 00:00:00

•,
it did n 3 mere than the new situation of the Coun-
try required.. This argument against the Bill as
unconstitutional, appeared to him unworthy of the
seribus consideration of the House. Those who
urged such an objection, seemed also totally to for-
get that the liouse possessed the purse out of which
the Army leas to be supported, •and that there was
art annual Bill to regulate the mode of its being kept
in existence. With the knowledge of all those
circumstanees, it was ridiculous to talk of the force
to be raised by the Bill, as being at all attended
with danger. The Honourable MeMber, after go-
ing over several other arguments, in which no
novelty occurred, sat down with declaring his deter-
millation to vote against the Motion.
Mr. C ARTWRIGHT was on the same sine.—
After defending the Bill on the common grounds of
its easy applicaticin and tendency, speedily to aug-
ment the Regular Army, he made some particular
remarks respeding the present Administration. He
allowed that he could have wished for a union of.all
tile great and leading political charaflers in the
Country, for the complete oblivion of all: those
Party-distindions which too often prevailed in the
House, without producing any public advantage.—e
Though he, however, might regret that such a com-
prehensive arrangement had not taken place, still
he would not go so far as some Gentlemen, who
seemed to be of opinion, that, the accession of the
Right Hon. Gentleman now at the head of His
Majesty's Councils, was not' of itself a great berme..
fit. He was sure that the Country did consider this
a great benefit to the interests of rite Empire. The
people, he was sure, had not forgotten the services
of that Right Hon. Gentleman, at a crisis of diffi-
culty unexampled in the Historyoof, Nations.—
They had not forgotten, that to his exertions they
owed
,the preservation of whatever was valtabli in
the Empii•e, and that a debt of grati:Udewa's due to
him which, they could never repay. • The H 0,,,
Member sat down by voting against the Motion
Sir W. GEARY opposed the Bill strenuously,' as
quite unconstitutional, dangerous, and unnecessary,
Fie particularly deprecated the pradice of relaxing
our jealousy of a Standing Amy, at a moment when
our means of Defence were so much beyond what
.existed at any former period,- -The worthy Baro.
net declared, in the name of his Constituents, 'that
he could not, consistently with the principles 01
Liherty recognized in this Country, :supporta mea.:
sure ',villa had the effect of augmenting, biiiyond what
circumstances required, what was termed our Dis-'
posable Force.
. . .
,Lord DUNLO wished it to be, remembered, that
on the original disclosure of this measure the sense
of the House was strongly for it. Since that- time
the disposition favour ,of it had increased, and it
had been carried, with augmented appearances of ap-
probation, into a Commit tee.:• 'No objedion.had been.
made to the provisions Cline irothe Commit-
tee, bat an unforeseen cppositioo had been .made:this
day to the second raading of the -Amendaeritsi4 hen
Gentlemen had not expedtd -it. He would not say
now what was the description that should be giVeti
of that proceeding, but if he was in a place in which
he formerly was- conversant, he should
.Gall it
Sharp PrelOice. Now, in consequence of gaining a
very small and a very accidental advantage, .the.
Ron. Gentleman opposite had taken advantage on
the spur of the occasion, without any arguments to
propose, that the Amendments may be read. this
day three months, He .wds sure he was addressing
*limy whose feelings were adverse to the principle
of 'the Bill—but he was sure that every conscien,
tiotts man must he dissatisfied with the manner in
which this question was brought forward. It was
true time question was altered, now :—but the post-
pOheinent of the second reading,of die Amendments
would not be allowed to be a fair mode of getting
rid of the Bill.
Mr. H. L.4SCELLES had not been in the House
at the titne, hut he had heard" of the extraordinary
circumstance 'that had taken place. As far as he
was acquainted with the practice oft the House, and
he appealed to the Gentlemen who were best ac-
quainted with it, such a thing was totally without
precedent.
Mr.' GREY spoke to order, and said that he did
not apprehend that upon any such question it- was
proper to canvas thus the former proceedings of the
House. •
The SPEIKER- said, that it was not out of
order for any Hon. Member to alledge the prior
proceedings on a Bill, as a reason for his voting.
Mr. L.ISCELLES then continued his observa.
Lions, and was proceeding to consider the merits of
the Bill itself, when

•
Mr. 7EKYLL again spoke to order, saying, that
he thought the Hon. Gentleman had most grossly
infringed the order and privileges of. the House.
ne CHANCELLOR qf the EXCHEQUER said,
that the Hon. Gentleman who thus spoke to order as
to the impropriety of speaking of a past transaction,
had, with a singular sagacity, called the other Gen.
tleman to order at the very moment he (Mr. Lits-
aELL Es) seemed to be entering into- observations as
to the Bill itself.

Mr. FULLER rose amid the general cries of
Question," and " Strangers withdraw;" and
said, " never
.be such a. tool for Party as to
speak for time ; let us come at once to a division."
M. D R said, that although the avowed ob-
fed of the present :Motion was- to produce
discussion, none 91 the Gentlemen supporting
• it seemed inclined to say a single word upon the
subjed. He appealed to the oldest Member of
the House, if they ever recollected such a pro.'
ceeding having been attempted upon the Amend.
merits suggested by a Committee, He never heard
of any attempt of a similar nature having been
praCtised in order to get 'rid of a. Bat.. He,
fur one, should not think it his duty to go in.
to a division, upon such an incidental point,,
out, at least, stating his reasonS's,vli,y* he thought the
,Hon. Gentknian's Motion ought to be negatived.
With resped tO the objeCts of the Bill, he expressed
surptize that Gentlemen should be so very in_
consistent 7;n' their condtid; for, 'when the Right
;'Hon- Gcotlemati formerly .!Mentioned his Plan, pre.
;vious 'to his coming into otEce,
,it ypq generally ap-
prived cf by .those very Gentleinen-who uutiv seemed
03,13.19P.)5e it, He was inClinecl to think, that their
conduct must,
this occasion; be influenced* bY
lurk' ?: U ~,ir,ary; motives.' He concluded Yvith
raviiing
gsn•7Atne.dment to,• tha • Motion, which ,

........---
i three
was,. rr that instead of the words this tai,,teil,
months, the words Monday next be an,l3",le'i on
for the further consideration of the Arreznon''""3
the Bill." detain
Sir IV. DOLBEN said, he only rose t°,,,iiie
the House fur a few minutes, in order to jus"h'love,
vote he would give upon the occasion. Alt the
he had formerly 'voted with the Gentlemen on
other side against the Bill, is being thought wort
stitutional, yet he thought the present Motw° 00,
unfair, and therefore he could not think of .suPP
ing them in that particular. n the
Mr. WARD supported the Arriendnient, ° .4,
same principle as his Hon. Friend (Sir W..D°L13,11-c,
with
.this difference, that he was friendly to the,2 pre,
sure. An Hon. Meinber over the waYl the eg's.),
senrative. of a respedable County (Mr. fur' e;
the same fair
had talked of his obje&ion to speaking against 'ci 'al
he was sure the Hon. Gentleman was influente he
and ~tiliat. the
principle throughout,
would feel the same objeaion to getting ri",,°„ of
Bill by the question to put off the second reauc'd to
the Amendments for three months. He adverted
the warmth which had been ;:hewn in this' 'er in
si, attributing it to the extraordinary 119%11610f
which the House had been divided. He arin.°"entitt
Mr. PITT'S condud, in assuming the GoYerngn
the circumstances in which he did. , ninion
Mr.. SPENCER STAA'HopE was O' °raver
that such
,a‘ proceeding as the present hza`i tpere
taken place on any former occasion. if might are ir,
haps be consistent with order, but he ":/
airi: do,'
would be Considered by• the Country as
er 'lb cv
art, q
en
and contemptible.—(A land and g
" 0rde..1.! Order! Chair! Chair!") ilzOe'll
The
.SpEAKER decided, that in ani''YhViion•
epithets' to any prOceedings of that House t"
Member had been highly disorderly. iorpinber'';
Mr.' 3,EICY LL move\ that the Hon, 04-
Words be taken down. - self/
- -Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE declared hunoto,
on being correted from; the Chair, ready 10 3,1..45
giZe to the Housefor having transgressed the
.11"'so,
of Order. He entered into a coniparison of Me.,
for increasing
veral plans that had been suggested.
the "Regular Army,: and said, he approved or tp,
one more than any other. Any roan (he observed'
who had attended to the History of th 4 Country
inirst-know;, tliat a 'Tar generally begins upon. oar
Finances fur one or two ears previous to odr haul., _
y
a Disposable ArMy ; but this Plan was to enableil
to start with "
men at the same time that we start!'
with-rnciney. , e
The' APT° RAI Pl7-GENER AL said, that
wog
House would easily understand to whom they by
indekreil fo. i any. del,* which he, roight occasi sOunie
rising to escpress his sentiments upon this rig, rf
Kotion. It was one which was fly ruigaj j
perle OO c
and absurd. The Hon. Gentleman who hi°, by
the Motion seemed to fancy, that after faihngnty
argument he could succeed by silence: T leaped,i
consequence of such a Motion, however, °° epoll
would be to necessitate the House to enCernesS °3
01S Stlbjea •of the Bill with more tranutc.-enclea"
Mon.day next. The Hon. Gentleman weliild 116°F.,1*
votiting to defeat by surprize, since he 1:y to '-
defeat by argument. He wisl'ied 'curl"
pout vere noC
heard by that description of persons who 'd
to re-
attached to any particular Party, n4.)r disposed iiger
move HiaMajesty's Ministers from their; COW' , ,he .
and called on them to consider what would beso
effe6t of this Bill, if carried into execution' ,
,
what, on the contrary, would he the conseque nc..aol„
if' such a Motion were to be agreed to. The 4. ' 1
• WAs
Mover seemed to imagine that their palienee lace
tired by the discussion that had already taken.P, by.
upon it, and that he could alone gain his p"u'd al,
some other extraordinary effort, while they liaek 1
e et
ready been hurried to a division, at an unex?„000
hour.. Au Hon. Gentleman had said, that he "flak
never lend himself to be a tool tO any Party t°;raia9
for time; but he (the ATTORNEY GEN"At'e'atjdo
convinced, by his condua, that that Hon' ~--partY
man seemed disposed to lend himself to an,,17 a few
for any purpose_ Here Mr. FULLER
~531,-,ard IT
words from the opposite side.]—He 110°11".-1 'itself
argument to sh.ew that the effea of the ''''ll to
rd'orCt ,
would be ruinous. It was curious Ille. ' in ,
~ij go ,
observe, to what extent Gentlemen sy°- : ni
noion ~
creating an opposition to te further d'sc-ry
the Question, by !
LAUS flying off from the Ve'' ''lie
elusions which they had ro ante
rmerly grant
measure proposed by the Bill was one °:: which
necessity. Minor objenions to a meaSar` -
~, there;
was generally acknowledged to be goods w7ccoult4
fore no objedions at all, unless similar measure-.
proposed,r
u°
bedid
in which such inconveniences wered
exist. The ATTORNEY GENERAL then C .11
diction,
into a minute investigation, and spirited vol
, woults
of -
this Plan, which he said, upon eornparisc °nosed,
he found to excel all others that had been Pr Iriion.
rid conl'ile
by its putting an end: to ballots, ,„I seemed`
Such a motion as the present (conti"ne"-"-''finding no,
to originate from disappointment, . 'n,ition (A try
any just ground or foundation for.°V°l it were,
eye" Hear! llear!") to try the strengt°, as •
of His Majesty's Ministers. ' dOA
Mr. FULLER here. spoke to order, a° he i
•a for t
that be, for one, had th greatest resr
• this vael.
Right Hon. Gentleman who brought in
sure to the consideration of the House:
Gel''
The SPEAKER thought the Right Hon• ot
tor's' I
man (the ATTORNEY GENERAL) had rather
gressed the rules of order, in so alluding CO illP 1110
_
1 tives of others. ' anal said,
The ATTORNEY GENERAL resumed,
res"e
that he could not help' thinking that when every ~
to '
son of opposition to these measures appeared
ire
ma
removed,that he was justified in ascribing she
• ductog
to that of being desirous, at all events, oftn
"A
He hOp
His Majesty to change his Government.
l'll
a. ,
therefore,_that kind of equality would be kept
Id eclu"'
on both sides of the House, and that they would ~,.. . 1
'of ly abstain from deviating from the strictness 0 ~
differeo
He then continued his comments on the ,
' conchided "
d
;measures that h -ad been 'prop
e, osed, an .
speech of great length and vehemenc by. asset',"
11107- •
that this was the beet: measure, and the most
,
to prOduee'the effeet,intentled by it,. . ,
. Mr• It'9sit
'
The question was then pqt upon . . .
4tneridnierit, when there. appeared,.
' 't
Ayes . , ii.4.:L-Noes 186-IViajort y
.tB.aa .
.
Alter the Division, the House iiitreetd'ale)Y
purled to ALoday ne*ll,