The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-25 00:00:00

25, _ 1858.

JUNE

Indian affairs to a person subject to the control of nobody.
If it were -so difficult to find a proper person to act as Go-
vernor-General of India without control, where was an
uncontrolled Secretary for India to be obtained? Much
had been said in reference to Parliamentary responsibility,
brit, of er all, what did that amount to ? A secretary for
India might lose that empire, but when he had done that
of what use was his Parliatnentaryresponsibility? (Hear,
hear.) The hon. and learned member for Sheffield might
probably move a vote of censure upon such a Minister, and
might carry it—(a laugh)--but what use would that be
when our empire in India was destroyed ? Bnt the house
had laid down the principle that there should be a council
which was to act as a control and as the advisers of the
minister charged with the government of India ; and he
was sure that if the hon. and learned gentleman would
take a short course of reading on Indian subjects for six
months, he would withdraw all the speeches against that
plan hich he had made of late. Considering that we
in this country had undertaken, as hon. gentleman
had said the task of governing twenty nations living
at a great distance from us, no doubt we had to face
a difficulty ; but it was not an impossible thing for an
intelligent and powerful country to govern a country
like India even from a distance. That empire had
always been so governed. Akbar Khan had so governed
her. It was not a sound doctrine to say that we could not
hold and govern distant countries. Austria had several
distant countries under her rule ; you complained of it, but
it was a fact, she con'rived to do it, and was a powerful
state in Europe. The hon. gentleman had talked great
good sense when lie talked of the wars and the annexation
which he dei recated. But let us be just to the East India
Company. There could be no stronger protest against that
system than was taken in Mr. rucker's note on the subject
of Airghanist le. But of what good was your boasted Par-
liamentary responsibility ? When his right hon. friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer brought forward a motion
condemnatoryof that policy, why did not Parliament sup-
port him ? He would rather prefer to this notion of Par-
liamentary responsibility a cou cif of experienced and sen-
sible men who would endeavour to avoid such a policy and
such errors as the hon, gentleman had spoken of. He did
not uudentand that we were less likely to get into troubles
by having au uncontrolled secretary of state for India, for
in the course of a Parliamentary recess we might have a
war, with which all that Parliament would have to do
would be to pay the bill. The hon. gentleman had spoken
well on the subject of annexation. He (Mr. Whiteside) bad
read the history of the annexation of many of those states
of which we had taken possession. The principle of legality
was set aside, and you had not paid the least respect to the
ancient laws of the country. The doctrine on that subject
had been expounded by Sir W. Jones, who showed that it
had been acted on by the Greeks and Romans in all their
conquests, but which had been set aside by Lord Dal-
housie, when he set at nought the ancient custom of the
country. The laws of inheritance and marriage had been
interfered with most unwisely. It was a mistake to say
that such things did not affect the army. Ganeral Briggs
said in a work of his that any change in the laws of the
country thrilled through the army. If therefore there was
any sudden change made la the laws or customs of the
country it operated on the military power, and the results
would be bloodshed and revolt. The government of India
therefore required the greatest amount of wisdom, caution,
and prudence. and that be hoped would be possessed by the
council which it was proposed to establish. The hon. gen-
tleman spoken of the futura policy to be observed towards

India, and he had urged the declaration of an amnesty ;
but all that was not his own thunder, for it had all been
laid down already by hi. right hon. friend the Chancellor
of the Exchequer ; but he could not agree with the hon.
member for Birmingham, who, if he were suddenly in-
vested with absolute authority, would proceed to make great
changes in the laws and customs of India ; for ho (Mr.
Whiteside) believed with Bacon, that sudden changes of
laws and customs led to revolutions. He differed also with
the honourable gentleman with regard to his estimate
of the character of the East In lie Company. Ho had,
however, listened wi h pleasure to the speech of the hor.
gentleman, and he only hoped that the picture which the
hon. gentleman had sketched of a happy future for India
would be realised ; but believing as he did that this would
bo a great and difficult task for any Gevernment so he be-
lieved that it would require the most watchful care to per-
form it wisely and well. He believed that Parliament
had taken a prudent and sensible course in adopting the
priuciple of a council in the government of ladia. He
agreed in the plan which had been laid down by his noble
friend, and ho hoped that some portion of the future of
India which the hon. gentleman had sketched would be
realised, as he held with the hon. gentleman that the end
and duty of government was not the f .Ise glory of c. n-
quest, bat the happiness of the people. (Hear.)
Mr. P. O'BRIEN urged that the matter for consiiera-
tion was not the past government or misgovernment of
India, but the establishment of a system for its future
government. He wished to Fee a responsible Minister, and
a responsible council to advise the responsible Minister.
- - - - -

Mr. V. SMITH regretted the course which had been
pursued on the present occa-ion, and thought it would have
been much better to have discussed the principles of the
measure on the second reading than to have postponed the
discussion for the committee. The house had only asserted
one principle, on which the two first bills were founded—
namely, the resumption by the Crown of the powers of the
company, end that there simnel bo some sort of council to
assist the Secretary of State. The remarks of the hon. mew-
ber for Birmingham applied more to the future then to the
present ; and although hediffered from many of those re-
marks, ho thoueht them well worthy of the consideration
of the house. The hon. member thought the presidencies
ought to be divided. That question was discussed by the
committee of 1853, and it wee matter of grave considera-
tion whether, on creating an additional Colonial-office, the
presidencies might not be divided ; but still it would be
requisite to have some central authority. The other ques-
tions which the hon. member hai discussed were of great
importence—whether there should not be a general am-
nesty, and whit ought to be the treatment of the native,
princes hereafter. Now he (Kr. Smith) thought the con-
duct•of the native princes who had stood by this country
ought to be rewarded in a suitable manner, particularly
the Minister of the Nizarn, and another Minister, who, an-
eeeiliea to the statement of hrsdnr kant
A contingent for four months, and thus materially assts e
in the preservation of India, for had that contingent been
allowed to march down rapidly it would have been a much
more difficult matter to save Lucknow. He agreed with
the hon. member for Birmingham that a bill ought to have
been introduced in 18e3, and entertained no doubt that if
some improvements had been effected at that time many
of the difficulties which had since occurred would ha, e
been prevented. But he went further than the hon. mem-
ber. and thought that a change ought to have been effected
in 1833, for the moment the commercial functions of the
company ceased their political functions ought also to
have ceased. The noble lord (Staulay) had stated that in
the present bill he bad adopted the number of councillors
sanctioned by the resolution which had been agreed
to by the house. Bnt the noble lord had gone beyond
the correct version of that resolution because it: declared
that the number should not be less than 12 or more than
15, whilst he adopted the maximum. The question of the
appointment of the council wasone of immense importance,
and its constitution ought to be very narrowly examined.
ife considered a council of 15 would be cumbrous, incon-
yoneent, and dilatory. And then with respect to commit-
tee', there were six departments of the Board of Control,
and he thought it would be much bettor that each of them
should be represented by ono member rather than by a
committee. Responsibility, when spread over numbers,
was greatly weakened, and yet responsibility was one of
the main objects of the bill. The system which had been
pus sued by the Board of Control and the Court of . Direc-
tors had been one of compromise, and there was some jute
in the remark of the hon. and learned member for Sbeffield
that the system was a mere sham. But how did the noble
lord propose to get rid of that sham ? By forming such a
large council that it must necessarily be a sort of sham.
was glad eliet the noble lord had gone tee length of
abolishing sere ;lead committee, but regretted that he had
etre& °et the Jim,Fetion se to increase of expenditure, for
if the doundll Wes to he o:
any use at all, it would be ex-
- unnecessary expenditure
tremely nseftil cotoroning arie
on the part of the Sectretary, of Mate. noble,, lord had
talked of the introduation of dempetition in eee services cf
the artillery and engineers. He fritsfed the ecael!' lord
would keep the college at Adliecomh P, tl sd eitend
end render it more useful then it had hither-to been,
He was glad that the noble lord hid given up the elect feu
by constituencies. Bat what he bad substituted was only
nomination by another body --nomination by the directors
instead of nomination by the Crown. Now, be trusted the
committee would press the noble lord still further, so as to
secure rieminetion by the Crown altogether. A new prin-
ciple had been announced by the noble lord,- the appoint-
ment of a commission of inquiry into the organisatime of
the army. That was a very desirable measure, but he
thought members of the Council might be appointed who
would be able to conduce the inquiry in a perfectly satis-
factory manner. The next paint was that the noble iced
proposed to put in his bill the appointment of the council
of the Governor-General. Now he did not think that any
persons could be found who could be so well en-
trusted with the appointment of the council as
the Goyernor-General and the governors of the presi-
dencies. He did not think that the Company had always
made the best selection. They had always gone, it appeared
to him, on the principle of seniority. He had ventured to
mako these observations on' the bill now rather than wait
until the bill was in committee. He cordially concurred in
the second reading of the bill, which, in fact, he considered
was now nearly the same bill as that of the noble lord the
member for Tiverton, the greatest difference being that by
this bill there would be a Secretary of State for India, while
by the bill of the. noble lot d (Lord Paltnerston) there would
have been a President of the Connell. (Oh.) B aidee which,
he admitted there was the principle of election, instead
of nomination. He only regretted that the house would
leed• go one step further, and take up the bill of his noble
friend,
Col: SYKES said, With regard to the eclministration of
astice in India, from 98. to 99 per cent of the whole num-
ber of cases decided wiare determined by native 3,zreges.
And with re and to the constittionci by whotri the members
council might be elected, he Waled Undertake to
fln3 it Constituency of three or four thousand p.strecte, re=
tired military and teneil eervants of the company, who had
foiliod in India. lie did not approve of the provision
inich fefeeetreed Members of the council sitting in that
house. For 16 yeele riienetets of the Cotirt of Directors had
eet in the house, and they *tete ad likely to tome into gen-
tlest with the President of the Board of control are the
mertitiete Of the proposed council were with the Pectetary
of State for Inelitie Why deprive the house of the bate fit
of the knowledge of those persons
Mr. fiIDDII4LL said he did not rise to prolong the dis-
cussion, but for the Willies° of putting a question—whe-
theret communication had been made from the Court of
Elireeeers to her Majesty's Government on the subject of
trier ineetnee now before the house
gr.:ACED-Wit said it was with great reluctance that
lie inttuded himself on the notice of the house on this
teeeretion. lie knew well that he was in a small minority,
and that anything that he might say would have no in-
fluence with the &Me. Bet as. he 'believed that the opi-
Ada he held was true he would not shrink from
uttering It, lie believed that this bill
was not des-
tined for any lots efilistence. It had been brought
forward under pressure, mad by persons unwilling to
do the thing that they were duipg, and *lio, when they
wore out of office, took a course directly opposite to that
which they wore now taking. When in opposition, in their
judgment the proper course was that there should be no
legislation; butlwleciahey were in office they foun I them-
selves coerced by the majority of the house to do, that whrch
they were now doing. He hoped the house would allow
him for a few moments to pass a retrospect upon the sub-
ject of India. Something more than a century ago a band
of merchants began to trade in India. They acquired a
footing in India, and a power over the people of India.
As time went on the Government of England encroached
more and more on the government of India, and in reality
absorbed the whole power. The next step was to compel
the East India Company to cease from trading.
The con-
sequence of that was that there was a body of men called
traders who did not trade, and who were supposed to be the
political rulers of a country which in fact they did not rule.
Their next step had been to take away not onl the reality,
but the ueme and power from the companyy. The last
:great political change to which be should refer was that

made by Pitt. Ho introduced the Board of Control,
which, in fact, overruled the government of India
by the East India Company. When this was done
there was introduced a power that governed India
without responsibility, and from that had arisen, he
believed, all the mischief that had followed from the go-
vernment of India. The real government of India was the
' Pr :sident of the Board of Control, while theostensible rulers
were the Board of Directors with an irresponsible power.
But when he brought forward a resolution condemning the
Board of Control on the occasion of the Affghan war, the
members of the Board of Directors in that house voted
against him ; and yet they professed to condemn the
Aff€,,han war. It must be acknowledged that the East
India Company had built up such an empire as the world
never saw before ; but the result had been such a revolt as
mankind never saw before. (Hear, hear.) He considered
that the bill of Lord Palmerston was a far better one than
the one now before the house, which was a thing of shreds
and patches, brought in under pressure, and which, though
it might pass, would suffer a speedy death. The bill of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer he believed to have been
concocted by the late and present Presidents of the Board
of Control ; but it was of so extraordinary a character,
that every one saw it could not pass. The Government
then fell back on resolutions which in fact embodied the
bill of the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; but those resolu-
tions they had been compelled to abandon, and now an-
other bill was before the house.lOn the principle of trans-
ferring the government of India to the crown, and adminis-
tering that government through a responsible minister, all
were agreed; but the cork which floated the measure was
the great principle that the council was to be partiy elec-
tive and responsible ; but it would in reality be responsible
to no human being. The council of fifteen would be there
for life; the Minister would come in and go out with the
Government; but the permanent members would be respon-
sible to nobody. The only way to avoid that was to give
the minister power to do just as he liked. A more mis-
chievous way of governing a country could not be con-
ceived. The 27th clause provided that all orders and direc-
tions which would have been sent through tho secret com-
mittee might be isued by the Minister of the Crown
without consulting the Council. The real governors of
India would turn out to be the Council, who would be
wholly irresponsible, and this would be the rook on which
the scheme would split.

➢lr. T.BARING said he had all along opposed legislation
for India in the present state of affairs, but he found him-
self in a minority when the noble lord the member for
Tivertnn was in office, and he was in a similar position
now. Although it wouLt hive been wise to postpone the in-
auguration of a new system of government until a mtasure
wAsproposed which could not have been met with off'-:•',tioi e,
yet after the repeated decisions of the house he sho..id not
oppose the second rea,ding of the bill. The hon. gentleman
who 12,,d just sat down had advised that there should be a
Parliameutary Government for India; but Parliament
could never govern India, and he entered his protest
against the views of the hon. end learned gentleman (Mr.
Roebuck). The right hon. gentleman (Ur. V. Smith) bad
stated that there was no difference between the bill of the
present Government and that of the noble lord the mem-
ber fur Tiverton, but he thought there was the widest dif-
ference, 'the present Government proposed an independent
Council, whereas the Council proposed by the noble lord
(Lord Palmerston) gave the nomination to the Crown, each
member holding his office for a short time only. The pre-
sent gave the power of filling up vacancies to the ex-
isting council men who would be well acquainted with the
condition and the demands of India, and who would know
precisely the man who should be selected. (Rear, hear.)
The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committo t to-morrow.

PRIUS COURT (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
RAILWAY ACT (IRELAND) CONTINUANCE BILL.
TLi,, bill passed through committee.
PORTENDIC AND ALBREDA CONVENTION BILL.
This bill passed through committee, and was ordered
for third rca ting to-mot row.
CLERK OF PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND) STAMPS.
This bill went through committee.
CLERK
.OE PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL.

This bill passed through committee.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILv
This bill was read u second time.
CHIEF JUSIICE OF BOMBAY BILL.

This bill w:l4 read a second time.
SA.LE AND TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND)
BILL.

The housir went into committee on this bill, commencing
with clause 51, which had referen_ie to the mortgage of
Property.
Mr. DOBBS movel tho omission of this clause, thinking
it would enable persons to go to the court to obtaiu a
fraudulent declaration of title.

Mr. GROGAN trusted the committee would notsanction
the omission of the clause, which he considered essential
to the bill.

llr. S. MILLER supported the clause.
Mr. BUT r would rather see the bill abandoned than
that this clause should bo struck out.
The t,enimittee then divided on the question that the
51st clause shoul I stand part of the bill
Ayes
Noes
Majority in favour of the clause —l23
Clause 51 w,a agreed to, and
The CHAIRMAN reported progress.
COMPENSATION OF EXECUTORS, &c , BILL.
This bill passed though committee.
LEGITIMACY DECLARATION BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS.

. 131

Mr. KIRK moved that the order fur the renewal of the
deb•►te ou this bill be dischar6ed, which was agreed to
without a division.

The house then adjourned at one o'clock.

REINFORCEMENTS FOR INDIA.

Yesterday the Duke of Cambridge, Commander-in-
Chief, arrived at C hathain for the purpose of inspecting
•
India depots at that garrison under orders to embark
for ledia. His Royal Highness, who was accompanied
by Alejer-General Sir R. Airey, K.C.8., the Qtarter-
master-General, and Colonel Charles Tyrwhitt, his aide-
ne camp, was received at Chatham station by Colonel
11. Ey, e, the commandant of the garrisoe, and on crese-
lug the drawlitidge leading inside the fortified works a
loyal salute of 21 guns was fired. The troops belonging
1 to the three batutlions were drawn up on the inner lines
in review order, and presented a very imposing appear-
ance, there being 5,000 men of all ranks on the ground.
The i attali ins were arranged in the folowirg order :
let battalion, under the command of Colonel 11. Jervis,
consisting of the 7th It iyal Fus I i era, 24th, 32nd Li ht
Infantry, 35. b, 43rd Light Infantry, and 53rd Regi-
ments, ; 2ed batte lion, commanded ty Col. PeN.l'hiil
comprisit"e the 10th, 20th, 231 Royal Wel.h
29th, 521 Light Infantry, and 61-t Reeinieuts ; 31 hat-
talion, under the command cif Liaun-Col. C. E. Fair-
tieugh, iecluiieg the Bth, 19%, 70. h, 75ib, 81st, 84th,
and 94th Regiments. The tro ps having been formed by
depote, the I)uke of Cambridge, attended by Gen. A irey,
Col. Terwhitt, Col. Eyre, Col. H. Sandharn, command-
ing the Royal Engineers, and other officers of the staff,
arrived on the lines at 11 o'clock, the tro, ps receivir g
h;s Reyal Highness in the usual manner. The Dole
then proceeded to make a minute inspection of the de-
pots cornpiising the three ba,talions, and likewise in-
spected he nom cetninis,icned officers and men who are
under orders to embark fur India. On the concluson
of the inspection, which occupied come time, the batta-
lions broke into open colon n and marched past in sloce
and quick time, his Royal Highness expresing to
Colonel Eyre his general sati'faction at the appear-
ance of the troop. On the termination of the review
f the troops of the Lioe his Royal Highness inspected
teo R eyel Engineers, the men of which corps were also
drawn up on the lines, under the command of L'eut.-
Colonel A. P. G. Ross. The Duke, after leaving the
tines, proceeded with a numerous staff to the huts at
Ileery's 13estion, which were occupied by the
tromps betn24-Ing to the 31 battelior, for the purpose of
making an examination of the encampment
lies which hasforme.forme.been recently forme. at the rear of the_otul,teo.f
tromps
Royal
r
Highne,s rode through the camp, th.e.wh
~ed the
having been turned out to rece:nve.
Lim. The new bell-
sheped tents, similar to thene wn;_eh were u-
Crimea, which have just been erected for a portion of
the infantry, were also exetnined by htt:, his Royal
Highness expressing his approval of the ria.`oner in
which they had been arranged, and also of the site
chosen for the camp-
These tents are a great improve-
ment on those formerly used, sad appear to be better
adapted for military purposes ; the corps at present
n-tog them is the 19th Regiment, nearly 300 men of
which are now under canvass. While at the huts his
Royal Highness inspected the new model canteen, which
has been erected by Mre Budden. Before leaving, the
Duke expressed his opinion that it was the best building
of the kind he bad ever seer. After leaving the huts
his Royal Highness and staff rode to the Spur Battery,
where a portion of the Ist battalion are encamped. The
Duke occasionally looked in at the interior of the tents,
which appeared to be perfect models of cleanliness and
order. These tents are larger than those recently erected
for the 3d battalion, each tent accommodating ld men,
the troops sleeping on small bedsteads adapted for tent
use. His Rep' Highness was occupied until two o'clock
in the inspection of the camp and troops, when he left
the garrison and returned to the Horse Guards, the guns
from the saluting battery firing a Royal salute on his
leaving the garrison.

AY AVAL AND MILITARY INTELLIGENCE.

In consequence of the length of time required to make
good the defects of the Vulcan, steam troop-ship, Com-
modore Seacombe, it is understood that the officers and
crew will turn over to the Porstverance. The latter is
fitted with Conninghe.no's patent reefing topsails, being
the first ship in her Majesty's esrvico so fitted.
The screw steam frigate Racoon, 21, Captain J. A.
.IYaynter, having had defects made good, sailed from Ply-
mouth on Wednesday for Spitbead.
The ecrelw steamship Brunswick, 80, Capt. E. Om-
maney, went from jlamoaze into Plymouth Sound on
Wednesday.
Her Majesty's yacht Victoria and Albert, Captain
at the
Hon, Joseph Denman, left Portsmouth har 6
o'clock last night on her cruise.
r member of the
Mr, Samuel W. Garratt, senio firm of
Gnrratt, Gibbon, and Sons, agents to Lloyds, has been
appointed by the American Government United States
consular agent for P,rfinioutb.
The Goliath, 80, scre..v line-of-battle steamer, has pro-
ceeded from Chatham to Sheerness for the purpose of
being attached to the steam reserve.
folowing appointments were made yesterday at
the Admiralty :—Sir L. Loraine, mate, and C. G.
Jones, mate to her Majesty's Royal yacht Victoria and
Albert ; P. R. Parker, midshipman, to the Cm ar ; J.
Allen, acting assistant surgeon, to the Victory ; C. W.
Jones, dJ. T. Kilgour, naval cadets, to the Curacoa ;
W. B. Turner, and E. Hicks, naval cadets, to the Marl-
borough ; A. H. Bradshaw, A. Little, and W. G. L.
Cocq, naval cadet, to the Brunswick ; E. W. Wickham,
J. A. Dashwood, F. Garnault, and E. R. Matthias, na-
sal cadets, to the Caesar ; E. A. Botellas, and F. D. E.
Jerningbam, naval cadets, to the Renown ; C. A.. Blake,
H. 11. Justice, and J. Bradford, naval cadets, to the
Orion ; A. Urenfell, naval cadet, to the Diadem.

THE MILITIA..
The coloneloy of the South Tipperary Militia Artillery
is vacant by the death of the Earl of Glengall,