The Sun.
London, England, 1867-05-31 00:00:00

PRIVATE BUSINESS
The following bills were read a third time and passed:
Ford and Lowiek Roads, Gateshead Improvements, an
North Western aud Charing-cross Railways.
REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE BILL.
On clause 9 being proposed,
Mr. LAING said the portion of the bill with which they
were now about to proceed, viz., the distribution of seats,
was as important as that which related to the settlement of
the franchise. The bill of the Government proposed to take
one member away from any borough with a population under
7,000, but he did not think that that provision was sufficient,
and therefore ho moved as au a.nieudment to the clause
that no borough with a less population than 10,000 at the
census of 1861 should return more than ono member to
servo in Parliament. As e specimen that the bill of the
Government did not go far enough, he would point out that
Ccckormouth, whore in the year 1866 the population had
fallen to 7,000, was left untouched by the measure, and it
would continue under the bill to return two members,
giving that place as great a return as Liverpool, whore
the population amounted to 443,000. That was merely a
specimen of the provisions of the bill, and it was to remedy
• that which he took the liberty of thinking an anomaly
that be proposed the amendment now before the
house. if his proposal was adopted it would give
52 seats for distribution, and they could be dealt
with as follows:—In ell large boroughs where the
populatioa exceeded. 150,000, he proposed for the future
they should send three instead of two members to Perlis
meet. This arrangement would take six out of the seats
obtained. Next, is all large towns with a population of
over 50,000, two members should he sent instead of one;
this would take another four. He adopted the 12 new
borou,;lii proposed by tl.e Government, and these with,
the two additional members to the -Tower Hamlets, an•l
the member to the Loudon University, would amount to
25 seats. With respoct to the counties, he proposed that'
in all, whore the population exceeded 150,000, three mem-
bers should be elected instead of two. This arrangement
would take 26 of the additional seats, making, with those
enninciated, above 51, leaving a small margin of one seat
to be disposed of as might be thought best. The hon.
gentleman then proceeded to Compare his proposal with
that of the bill of the Government, and contended that his
was by far the better arrangement of the two. :.With re-
spect to grouping, he believed the feeling of the house
was against it, generally speaking, and therefore he had
not adopted it to any very largo extent. He had only
made seven groups, viz., the Bodmin boroughs, consisting
of &inth' and Launceston, returning one ; the 'Torquay
boroughs, consisting of Torquay, Dartmouth, and Ash-
burton, returning one ; the llouiton boroughs, consistin g
of Honiton and Lyme Regis, returning 1; the Eye
boroughs, consisting of Eye and Thetford, returning one ;
Chichester boroughs, consisting of Chichester and Arun-
del, returning one • the ;Chippenhani boroughs, consisting
of Chippenham ain't Cable, returning one ; and the Rich-
mond boroughs, consisting of Richmond and Northaller-
ton, returning one. He thought the plan he had laid be-
fore the house would, on examination, be found the best
that could be adopted, and therefore he confidently re-
commended it for the adoption of the House.
Mr. 13. COCHRANE said unfortunately Honiton always
stood No. 1 in schedule A. when disfranchisement was talked
about. (Laughter.) He had had to stand up for what he
called the forlorn hope ; but he was very much afraid that
their fate Was now doomed. (A laugh.) However.
there was one circumstance which had not been pressed
upon the right hon. gentleman, and he hoped he would
consider the matter. In most of boroughs from which it
was proposed to take away one member territorial influ-
ence prevailed to a very large extent. The effect of the Go-
vernment proposal would be to leave the remaining repre-
sentation entirely in the hands of those possessing that
influence. The plan would leave 70,000 persons without
a vote, because they would not be able to exercise the
franchise for the counties.
Sergeant GASELEE said the hon. member for
Wick (Mr. Laing) had appropriated to himself the idea
ho (Sergeant Gazelee) had put forth. He had jockyed him
out of his proposal solely by being better acquainted with
the technicalities of the house than ho was. (Laughter.)
When the Reform Bill was first introduced he (Sergeant
Gazelee) give notice of his intention to move precisely
that which the hon. gentleman had just detailed
to the house: He denied that the plan brought
forward by the honourable gentleman (Mr. Laing)
as his own pert of the scheme which he had put forth
with such a flourish of trumpest belonged to him (Ser-
geant Gazeloe), part of it belonged to the Government,
and the other pie t belonged,. n oubt, to somo-e
body who would yet be found out. Lod laughter.) 4
had a plan for a distribution of seats, but lie had purrplosiecly
kept that a secret in order that the hon. member fo
I.(rnokt
might not filch that from him. (Laughter.) c_
but feel indignant when he beard the inembillel ooia
dW i
nc ko
talk about " his" plan, when, in fact, lie
ce loaui
ld Nnvohta
bate 0117 ra
admire
oig i
coolness
oa
ol toye
sosf
vhf et p
wr oc shi t itohT
member for Wick gave advice to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer—(laughter)—but ho felt the right hon. gentle-
men would estimate the advice at its pr oper
G valuovernment
e.
Mr. GOLD YNE thought .the bill. of the
wont far enough, and ho hoped the cormnittee would pause
More it gave its assent to the proposal of the hon.
member for Wick.
Mr. SAMUDA thought the Ministerial proposal much
the best and safest one fur the adoption of the house.
Mr. NEWDEGATE supported the amendment of Mr.
Laing, and expressed a hope that it would be adopted by
the Louse, as it was onl[tngianrilei:unielititiuysru.arilleiuootdefernejiusetsdt;:etcottlttoitsiejeiatasgmoroeoassotint
h thee(7 t!
cof Preeearssi nregpmreessesultd
theof
not Derby,inth,
wealthy landed proprietors, such as the Marquis of West-
nheaidu smteors, themost
of
the
rpqruois
;eorftySsailtiusabtueryil and
w s, Earind
ltowns,
counties.
Sir G. GREY said it was to be hoped that the matter
of distribution of seats would have been dealt with
in such a manner by the Government as would
put a stop to future agitation on the subject, but he thought
that such an object had not been attained by the Govern-
ment, but that in the new Parliament to be elected under
the bill amongst one of its first duties would be called upon
to make a very great addition to the proposal at present
under discussion. • Ho thought the proposal of the hon.
member for Wick would make the bill more valuable, and
therefore ho should give it his earne,:t and hearty support,
at the seine time he reserved to himself the privilege of
reservation with respect to the details.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
deny that there were anomalies in the present arrange-
ment • but in the representative system there always
must be. The principle the Government have gone ova,
in framing the bill his been to give reprosentatior
3)
I
those communities that have sprung up since 8-
and which aro not now represented in Parliament,
curl with o
the exception of giving vernuen„, r
~,
have
seu-
Udell to a. seat of learning-, the. Go
entirely acted in that spii (H ear ,
d
in the present instance en f thegreatest difficulty, be-
hear.) The matter was one o
scgheme the morning
cause you can easilydrew upi.
'tit could be de:rrei
which looked eirerything t •
vunine into the details,
tairness, but when you come toh e.,
rcatest difficulty, arid
the subject became one of t g
,r.so
and
unsafe
that it would be both. t
one-ninent had given the greatest
to adopt. The Ciov.et
I bill • but with respect to
attention to the proposals t _
ie
inewber
for
the aendment of the lion. guntritea
beforeit adopted it.
Wick, be hoped the house would
,tern of "-Mpg a double
((fear, hear.) With respect to t s) 0
•d to o
And AS was now popes,. 6
representative, Hy he was
Some places three representatives; persona
• ' that one' member alone was quite sufii-
of opinion ,
eiont to represent one community. (Hear, bear.) That
was his individual opinion. The attempt to represent
minorities could only, in his opinion, result iu a feeble
executive ; and, therefore, it was not for the advantage
of the country that it should come into practice.
Her Majesty's Government had acted on practical and
proved principles, and had sought to give representation
were it was wanted; and, under these circumstances he
hoped the house would not involve itself in that sea of