The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-22 00:00:00

BILL.

On clause 2,
Mr. ALCOCK moved the omission of the clause. By
enabling the Government to retain 12 acres in their own
hands, they would probably cause great expense in
future, and thus they would defeat the professed object
of the bill.
Mr. SLANEY supported the clause, believing that it
tended to benefit the community.
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to see the clause some-
what modified. As it stood the Government could only
retain the land for purposes connected with the depart-
ment of science and art. That appeared to him too
stringent, and he thought it would be better to enlarge
the discretion of the Government. He thought the hon.
member for Surrey (Mr. Alcoclt) could hardly be aware
of the eff,ct wh ch would be produc2ol by the omission
of the clause. In that case, uadr the first chose the
commissioners would have it in their power to exempt
themselves from the obligations of the deed which they,
had concluded with the Treasury, and they wooll be-
come possessors of the whole of the beildirge with their
valuable c ntente. He thought 60,0001. was a perfectly
equitable price for this land. It coneisted of about 124
acres, which cost 4,0001. per acre, or 50,0001. eltogethi.r.
A small piece of land was purchased for 2,0001. to im-
prove the approach, and 2,0001. mere was expended in
laying out the road, and 4,0001. per acre was paid for
two acres, which formed the site of the road. These
inms made together 62,0001., and therefore 60,0001. was
a very fair price for the public to pay.
Mr. SPOONER said the rig'at hon. gentleman had
spoken as if the commissioners were nut trustees for the
public. In point of fact they were so, and therefore
there was no reason why the Sheepshanks collection
should not be placed in their hands. The object of those
who wished to have the clause omitted was that the
Government should have no more to do with the depart-
ment of science and art ; and if this second clause were
given up, and the 12 acres handed over to the cominis•
sionere, these gentlemen would after warde ac; in the
matter as trustees for the public. I; was bad in prin-
ciple for the Government to employ, in any way what-
ever, the general taxition of the country in the promo •
tion of any particular object in which the whole count,e,
was not concerned.
Mr. COWPER said the hon. gontle,nan who hail ju-t
sat down was mistaken in suppo,--ieg that under Mr.
Sheepshanks' ail!, his gallery ceu!d be handed over to
the commissioners. Mr. Sheepshanks exhibited the
strongest objection to the placing of his collection in the
bands of any board, or trustees, or commissioners ; his
desire was that his pictures should be taken care of by
those responsible ministers of the Crown who had the

supervisiOn of the education department. As to the
hon. gentleman s views of art and science, it was well
known that they were rather ancient, and better suited
for the times of the Goths and Vandals than to the pre-
sent day. (Lloghter)
Mr. SPOONER said, notwithstanding the allusion
made to the Goths and Vandals—(laughter)—he should
not abdicate the function of protecting the tax-payers of
this conntrv.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the oljeetions of his hon. friend (Mr. Spooner) to the
department of science and art might be perfectly sound
and valid, but they had really nothing to do with the
question before the house. As he was himself respon-
sible for the inseetian of this clause in the bi.l, he would
briefly state what was the object of it. The Royal COM.
missionera wished to dissolve this partnership ; the Go-
vernment agreed to it, and the commissioners undertook
to pay the sum of 182,500/. The commissioners natu-
ral;y said, "If we pay you this money 37,u must put uc
in possession of the property which Ws have purchased."
The Government thought it fair; but it happened that a
small detached portion of the property was occupied by
public institutions and galleries of art which were le! t
to the country, and for the acceptance of which the
Ministers of the day were responsible. The Govern-
ment having been bound by Mr. Sheepshanks' the
question arose whether they should pay a rent for the
location of these objects. The rent would have been very
high, as it must have been calculated . npan the original
cost of the plot of land ; and it was therefore suggested
that, instead of their paying rent, the establishment
should remain till the original arrangement was matured,
a sum being paid equal to the original price given
,by
the commissioners, and not increased by the increased
value which the land had acquired in the interval.
It appeared to him that the terms which the Gevern-
ment had made for the public were as fair as any that ,
could be expected. Teat was the only issue raised by
the clause, and all that his hon. friend the member for
Warwickshire s..id about the inexpediency of Govern-
ment interference with ,cienee and art, had no more to
do with this matter than it had to do with Kensington-
Gore. As to the comroirsienrr; taking charge of Mr.
Sheepshanks' collection, th:A was simply impossible,
They had no more tight to take chareo of Mr. Sheep-
shanks' gallery, er of the Department of Science and Art
than any members of that house. They might as well be
expected to take charge of the Home Department.
Mr. JOSEPH LOCKE was surprised to hear the
right hoe. gentleman say that the commissioners had no
right to interfere with science and art. If that were
true, why was there a partnerrhip ? (Hear, bear.) It
was remarkable that the persons who were at the bead
of the department of science and art firmed the Royal
Commission. _ _

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY thought the great defect of
the clause was that it did not state the precise sum that
was to be paid.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND thought there was something
kept back io this matter. They were told that the com-
missioners had nothing to do with science and art ; and
at the same time they were informed that those gentle-
men had to provide schools for the people. There was
some secret influence somewhere ; there was something
that was not fair and above board.
Mr. CONINGHAM said if the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer wished to advance science and art he c ,uld not
do better than assent to the motion of the right hon.
gentlemen the member for Ashton for the repeal of the
paper duty. _ •

Sir G. LEWIS observed that some bon. members ap-
peared to labour under the impression that this clause
was inserted to guard the interest of the commissioners
against the public, whereas it was evidently inserted to
guard the interests of tha public against the commis-
sionere. (Hear, hear.) The department of soierca and
art was a department which had no connexion whatever,
except as a matter of negotiation, with the ,Commis-
sioners of the Exhibition.
MJ. WILSON would submit 'o the. Chancellor of
tbaE. Exobequer, in accordance with the sumstion of the
right tion• gentleman the member for the University cf
Oinz fqoureds,titohnsiubseenrition of war& to the effect that the land
The CR ANCEILt retained for the use of the public.
think the word " üb:C.:IR of the EXCHEQUER did not
Mr. 1
BARING
;)10t2 language which was usually
introdue,e.d into Jr tictitc"f wasuP aen
tbe emission of the clause
would militate against objtha et in view,
Toe clause
through committee. theta agreed to, and the bill passed
Tho house resumed.
THE PAPER DUTIES.
On the motion for going into committee of supply on
education estimates,
Mr. M. GIBSON moved the following resolution •
.
" That this house is of opinion that the maintenance of I
excise duty cm paper, as a permanent source of revenue
would he impolitic, and that such financial arrangements
ought to be made as will enable Parliament to dispense
With that tax." He thought it m;ght be right fcr him to
say, in order to avoid being misunderstood, that in pro-
posing this resolution, which he had placed upon the