The Sun.
London, England, 1858-10-05 00:00:00

THIS DAI'S SHIPPING.

LONDON', Oct. s.—Wind this day at noon, W.N.W. ;
strong breeze, and showery.
DOVER, Oct. 4.—Wind W.S.W.—Arrived—Sir Edward
(of Cheater), frern London, for Swansea, with damage at
midships, having been in collision with a French vessel.
Orr FALMOUTH, Oct. 4.—Arrived—Lizzie. Scott, from
Sunderland, for Melbourne.
PLYMOUTH, Oct. 4.—Wind
from Quebec; Belmont, ditto. Sailed—Athens, (8.8.), for
Southampton.
FLEETWOOD, Oct. 4.—Wind W.--Arrived—
from from Quebec.

(BY ELECTILIC TELEGRAPH)

Wind W.
Arrived—Athens, steamer, from Cape of Good Hope ;
Despatch, steamer, from Jersey.
Sailed.—Saxonia, steaew York Pera, steamer,
ftr Alexandria ; Havre, steamer for Havre ; Courier, and
Atalanta, steamers, for Jersey; Isabella Croll, steamer, for
Newport

DEAL, Tuesday Morning.

Hanan, from New Orleans, for
Wind •by N., inoderate.
Passed in Tow.—City of Manchester, from Calcutta, for
London • Prince of Wales, from Hudson's Bay.
LoPnadsosne.d.
Anchored.—liannab, for Sydney; Eclipse, for Madeira ;
—Nathan
Queen Dither, for Trieste ; Boxer, for Malta—all from.
London.

LIVERPOOL 2 Tuesday Morniar;.

Wind W., fre

SIR G. C. LEWIS ON PARLIAMENTARY
REFORM.

At the annual meeting of the Radnorshire Agri-
egltural Association, held at Knighton,
Sir G. C. LEWIS', on rising to return thanks for
,drinking his health, said—Gentlemen, I return
:you
my most cordial and sincere thanks for the ex-
tremely kind manner in which this toast has been.
iproposed and received. I may also take the oppor-
tunity of expressing my entire concurrence in the
sentiments which my hon. friend Sir J. Walsh has
:so ably expressed as to the advantages of these as-
alociations and the satisfaction I have felt from the
4ime I had the honour of representing the Radnor-
shire boroughs, in attending your meetings, and
'contributing, as far as I have been able, to the suc-
cess and continuance of the association. I can enter
into the views of those who think that even in the
more advanced and improved parts of the country
than that in which we live, which, from the charac-
ter of its soil and climate, is certainly not amongst
the most advanced agricultural districts, agriculture
has derived essential benefits from associations of
this kind. Much more may we expect that the in-
terchange of ideas, the suggestions of experiments
and other advantages that are derived from meetings
of this kind must contribute to remove those ancient
and obsolete ideas which naturally grow up among
the cultivators of the soil when they are left to
themselves, and where the population is so scanty
that there is little communication between persons
engaged in the same pursuit. The proposer of my
health has been kind enough to advert to my con-
nection withthe late Administration, and although
this is a meeting from which political party topics
are banished—and I would not say a word which
would in any. way offend the feelings of persons
who might differ in politics from myself—yet I may
be permitted to observe that, looking back to the
state in which this country was when Lord Pal-
merston acceded to office, the state in which the
army was placed, the condition of that army, and
the uncertainty of the issue of the contest in which
it was engaged within any limited period, I cannot
but think that that Government may congratulate
itself upon the manner in which that frightful
struggle was terminated and by the conditions of
the treaty which was si! •ed at Paris. (Cheers.)
I also think, whatever • erences of opinion may
exist with respect to the conduct of our agents at
Canton—l have no wish to revive:a subject which
gave rise to such angry feelings and so much ani-
mosity—but I say that all persons, whatever may
be their political opinions, must concur in regarding
the treaty which has recently been made public as
a great advance in our commercial facilities, and as
having settled a question of great difficulty, and
one which all persons who look to the progress
of our affairs in the East have admitted to be an
object of undoubted gain to the country—namely,
the opening of China to English and European en-
terprise. (Hear, hear.) Well, gentlemen, there
is another subject, which, looking, not backward,
but forward, might naturally suggest a few re-
marks at the moment, and which, having formerly
been a subject of the most intense party interest
and violent party contest, seems now to have be-
come one of those questions upon which all political
parties are agreed. I refer to the subject of Parlia-
mentary Reform, for I observe from the reports of
some late meetings of a similar description to that
at which we are assembled to-day, it has been vir-
tually announced by some of her Majesty's Minis-
ters that they contemplate, at all events, proposing
in the next session of Parliament a measure of Par-
liamentary Reform as a Government proposition.
Well, if that party of which the Administration
now in office forms a portion, proposes a measure of
Parliamentary reform, that of itself must be taken
as an indication that Parliamentary Reform is no
longer a party question—(hear, hear)—inasmuch as
in former times they were connected with a party
opposed to Parliamentary Reform. I may say thus
much without trenching upon political controversy,
that thoie who propose a measure of Parliamentary
Reform at the present moment must propose it with
a view of remedying some distinct mischief, some
defined political evil. (Hear.) They must have a
distinct view of some evil which they propose to
remove. Now, I would ask those who propose, at
the present moment, to bring forward a systematic
plan of Parliamentary Reform, to state distinctly
what is the exact evil they propose to remedy ?
Those who proposed the Reform Bill of 1832
had, I believe, in their minds a distinct con-
ception of the evils which they proposed
to remedy, and the country had a clear notion of
those evils. At that time there were large towns
in this country which were wholly unrepresented
—such towns, for instance, as Leeds, Birmingham,
and Manchester, had no representatives. Some of
the largest, the most populous, the most wealthy,
the most important towns in the kingdom were un-
represented. On the other hand, there were certain
individuals who, by their power of nomination in
small boroughs having scarcely any electors, were
able to return to the House of Commons a consi-
derable number of members. Putting these two
things together—observing that there were towns
which were unrepresented and particular indivi-
duals able to return a considerable number of mem-
bers—we found that the House of Commons did not
accurately and faithfully represent the general
opinion of the country. Well, the change was made ;
and I think it may now be fairly said that on all
great questions, all important subjects, the House
of Commons for the most part fairly represents the
general opinion of the country. It may not always
be the faithful exponent of the opinions of particu-
lar individuals, or even of particular districts ; but,
looking at it generally, it is, I think, a very faithful
exponent of the general sentiments of the country.
Then it is said that the circumstances of the times
demand a systematic plan of Parliamentary reform.
I am not disputing that proposition, but I only
say that any Government which brings or proposes
to bring forward a plan of Parliamentary reform,
is bound to state distinctly what is the evil they
profess to remedy, and what are the defects in our
present system which they intend to remove. I
must be permitted to remark that those persons
who think it is possible by some profess of ingenuity
to propose a Reform Bill which shall increase the
power of a particular party, which shall throw an
increase of influence into the hands of a particular
class of the community, are entirely mistaken in
their supposition than any measure, any contrivance,
-any device of that kind, will impose on the general
intelligence of the country, or influence the decision
of Parliament. In my opinion, in whatever form
a Reform Bill may be introduced into the House of
Commons, it will come out of that house a real Re-
form Bill, increasing the popular character of the
Legislature. It will give greater weight to the
voice of the people in the councils of the House of
Commons, and if any Government should entertain
different views, and propose a Reform Bill not hav-
ing that object, in my opinion they will not only be
grievously disappointed in their expectations, but
will attempt to pass off a deception upon the coun-
try. That must, in my opinion, be the necessary
result of any proposal which may be made at the
present time for Parliamentary reform, and I will
add that, as it seems to me, it is the only legitimate
basis upon which such a proposal can be made.
(Cheers.) lam very much indebted to you for the
kind manner in which you have listened to the re-
marks which I have offered on this subject, and I
thank you cordially for the manner in which you
have drunk my health. (The right hon. baronet
resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.)
The toast of " Prosperity to the Radnorshire
Agricultural Association" was then given from the
chair, and the list of prizes having been read, Sir
J. WALsn rose to propose the health of the Chair-
man.

Sir G. C. LEWIS, after returning thanks for the
honour done him, said,—l must apologise for hay-
ing called your atention to subjects of more general
interest than even that of agriculture, but there are
not many occasions upon which Sir J. Walsh and
myself, the representatives of this county, have the
opportunity of addressing so large a body of our
constituents. There is one sentiment to which my
hon. friend has given utterance, and which I think
will meet with general
concurrence, namely, that
we are not necessarily to identify democracy with
liberty. We are not necessarily to suppose that
progress in the direction of democracy
will of itself,
without proper guards and securities, increase our
public liberties. (Cheers.) He has taken you across
the Channel, and asked you to contemplate the
political condition of the kingdom of France. I will
ask you to look across the Rhine—to look to Ger-
many as well as to France=and say whether the
hasty and ill-considered rush they made a few years
ago in the direction of democracy has not ended in
riveting despotism on their necks. Nothing is
more obvious than that a hasty and ill-considered
attempt to run by a short cut to the goal of demo-
cracy will land you in the very opposite goal.
(Hear, hear.) I will, however, add one remark to
those which
Sir John Walsh has made, and that
is that hitherto, in my opinion, all advances which
we in this country
.have made in the direction of
democracy have likewise been advances in the
direction of liberty. (Hear, hear.) That has been
owing to the cautious manner in which the progress
has been made, and to the manner in which public
measures are proposed and considered in this coun-
try. (Cheers.) That which has been hitherto will,
I sincerely trust, continue to be the case. It is with
a view of contributing my small mite to that con-
clusion that I have ventured to throw out my sen-
timents with respect to the coming Reform Bill.
I trust those who propose it will form a distinct
idea of what it is they seek to accomplish. I trust
also they will make an honest and sincere proposal,
and that they will not attempt to accomplish one
thing under the mask of another. If they do they
will have the certainty of detection before then.

eyes. No political trick in this country ever passes
undetected, and the certain result is a reaction of
public opinion, and a tendency to advance too
rapidly in the direction contrary to thit in which
an attempt may have been made to mislead the
public. From whatever quarter a Reform Bill may
come, and in whatever shape it may present itself,
I trust it will receive that consideration which will,
when it obtains the sanction of the Legislature,
make it tend to the public good ; and as I feel sure
it will be, and must be in the direction of democracy,
so I believe it may be brought to increase our pub-
lic liberties. (Cheers.)
Several other toasts of a purely local character
were then drunk, and the proceedings terminated.

THE DUTIES OF AN J'LP. AND THE
LIBERTY OF THE PRESS.

The Mayor of Ripon (Mr. R. Kearsley) provided
a banquet at the Town-hall, Ripon, on Friday, to
which he invited the members for the West Riding
of Yorkshire and the city of Ripon, the magistrates
of the liberty of Ripon, and a number of the local
clergy and gentry. Among those who were present
were—the Right Hon. Viscount Goderich, M.P.,
Mr. J. A. Warre, M.P., Mr. J. Greenwood, M.P.,
the Hon. and Very Rev. the Dean of Ripon, Mr.
J. Dalton, Sleningford-park ; Co!. Crompton, Azer-
ley-hall ; Capt. Smith, Green Royd ; Col. Byrne,
Ripon ; the Mayor of Wakefield, &e.
After the usual loyal and patriotic toasts, that of
" The Lord Bishop and the Clergy of the Diocese "
was drunk—to which
The Dean of RIPON (Dr. Erskine) responded, and
proposed—" The Members for the West Riding,"
coupling the name of Lord Goderich with the toast.
He observed that the people in the consideration of
their Parliamentary representatives, were so much
mixed up with the broils of political life, and so
much influenced with mere party spirit, that they
were too apt to forget the real sacrifices which honest
and honourable men made for the good of their
country when they entered Parliament with a de-
termination to endeavour to do their duty. As the
son of a member successively of both Houses, he felt
entitled to speak of what he knew, and had known
during many a long year, to be the anxiety, the
care, and the intense interest which the mem-
bers of Parliament felt, not merely for popularity
and for the advancement of the party to which they
might be attached, but really to work out that
policy which they sincerely and conscientiously
believed would contribute to the welfare of their
country. (Applause.) He did, therefore, and had
been accustomed all his life to respect highly an
honest and devoted member of Parliament ; and
the public were very little aware how much they
were indebted, under Providence, for the great
benefits which this country had received from the
deliberations of those men. (Applause.)
Lord GODERICH replied to the toast. After re-
marking that, from his earliest boyhood, many of his
most pleasant recollections were connected with the
city and neighbourhood of Ripon, for which he
had a hereditary affection, he said that he would
—if his honourable friends on his right hand
and on his left (Mr. Warre and Mr. Greenwood)
did not think he was poaching on their manor
—address a few words to the assembly as
being to a certain extent their Parliamentary
representative. He need hardly tell them that it
was a proud thing for him to stand in that or any
other company and return thanks as one of the
members for the West Riding ; his only regret was
that he was so little worthy to fill the high position
in which the favour and confidence of the first con-
stituency of England had placed him. The duties
of a member of Parliament in these days ap-
peared to him to be peculiarly responsible. His
friend the Dean of Ripon had spoken of the
warmth of party feeling. It was a happy cir-
cumstance in very many respects that the
bitterness of party spirit had passed away
entirely from private and social life, and he trusted
that it was also passing rapidly from public life ; but
if the ties of party were to some extent lessened,
that only threw greater responsibility upon indivi-
dual members of Parliament. If, now-a-days, a
member of Parliament was not inclined as formerly
to follow the beck of a party leader, it increased the
difficulty of his task—it required of him a larger
amount of thought, and cast upon him a greater de-
gree of responsibility. (Hear, hear.) For himself,
he trusted that he felt that responsibility deeply ;
he had always, since he had had a seat in Parlia-
ment, endeavoured to discharge those duties to the
best of his ability ; but though his friend Captain
Smith had spoken of the great difficulties in which
officers of the navy were sometimes placed, he
thought they were almost inconsiderable compared
with the numberless difficulties in which members
of Parliament found themselves—difficulties so great,
that they very frequently became, to use a York-
shire expression, quite fast. (Hear, hear.) Their
constituents expected that they should be a sort of
political encyclopaedias--that they should be able
to vote upon every possible subject, and to judge of
it with an independent judgment. He believedthat
in the House of Commons in the present day there
was a very widely spread and earnest desire among
the members faithfully to do their duty. (Hear.)
How far they were successful it was for their con-
stituents to judge. He had very frequently differed
from the majority of the House of Commons, and,
of course, on those occasions he had thought them
wrong ; but there was one thing which the members
of Parliament were always ready to do, whatever
might be their party differences or their personal
divisions, and that was to unite whenever they were
called upon to defend the honour or the indepen-
dence of their country. (Applause.) He trusted
that the gloomy forebodings to which some persons
of late had given vent might not prove true ; but
this he knew, that if any nation in the world should
be so rash as to think that she could attack Eng-
land with impunity, this country would be able to
show her her mistake. (Applause.) He could
assure the assembly and Captain Smith, who had
specially referred to th• subject, that they would
not find him in the least inclined to enjoin parsi-
mony in respect to the national defences. (Hear.)
That was no party question ; it was the duty of
Parliament to keep the country in a state of ade-
quate defence, but it was also their duty, and espe-
cially the duty of the House of Commons, to see
that the public money in regard to those defences,
as well as in regard to every other branch of public
expenditure, was not squandered or wasted by mal-
administration. (Hear.) His lordship expressed
his regret at the absence of Mr. Denison, his col-
league in the representation of the West Riding,
and made one or two observations as to the impor-
tance of social gatherings like the one he was pre-
sent at that evening. Such meetings, he said,
brought together friends and neighbours, they led
to convivial intercourse, and certainly to members
of Parliament they were of great advantage, be-
cause they enabled them to discover the sentiments
of their constituents and to ascertain what was the
public opinion of the country, which must be of
great use to politicians or statesmen, for no man,
whatever might be his power or position, could
govern this country long without the approbation
of public opinion. (Applause.)
The toast of " The Borough Members," proposed
by Mr. F. WooD, was responded to by
Mr. WARRE, who confirmed the remarks made
by Lord Goderich as to the difficulties and respon-
sible duties of everybody who had the honour of a
seat in the House of Commons. He referred also
to the Act of Parliament passed last session for the
government of India, observing that it was an act
for the government of India in England, and not
for the government of India in India, so that India
still remained pretty much under the same system
of administration which existed until the recent
alteration had been made. It was a matter of con-
gratulation, he continued, that active field opera-
tions on a large scale were over in India, but he
apprehended that there still remained what Capt.
Smith in his Peninsular days would have called
an active guerilla warfare, which entailed on our
troops a great deal of labour and fatigue without
that amount of glory which attended those who
were engaged in general action. (Hear, hear.)
The mention of anything about military operations
led him to what had been more or less touched
upon in various addresses delivered by members
of Parliament at meetings of their constituents, and
in other places—he referred to the great and pro-
minent question elf our national defences. He
did not wish it to be supposed that he breathed
suspicions and mistrust of our great and powerful
neighbour the Emperor of the French. There he
was, the ruler of that great country, and he (Mr.
Warre) was willing to give him credit for the sin-
cerity of his pacific intentions; but when mem-
bers of Parliament came to speak, as they would
have to do when Parliament met, of the amount of
the estimates of the expenses of our distinguished
services, the army and the navy, the question which
they ought to look at with a degree of apprehen-
sion was—if it should be the will of Heaven that
anything should happen to the present ruler of
France—what is to come next? (Hear, hear.) If
the historical events which had happened since the
year 1789 were considered, it would be found that
there had been organic changes in the Government
of France once, upon the average, in every five
years; and if that had been the case during the
last 70 years, was it possible for any human saga-
city to calculate what would be the form of Govern-
ment in France, or what would be the disposition
of that Government, if anything should happen to
bring about some change in the relations of our great
and powerful neighbour ? (Hear, hear.) This
might be rather a dry matter to talk about after
dinner, but, as it would be his duty, as well as
that of others, to consider the estimates which
would be brought before them on the reassembling

of Parliament, he thought he would mention what
were the feelings on his mind which should induce
the House of Commons to place this country in a
state of adequate security. (Applause.)
Mr. J. GREENWOOD also briefly responded to the
toast.

Lord GODERICH, in giving "The Press," said
that free discussion was the breath of liberty, and
though there might often be articles in newspapers
which ought to be disapproved, and though news-
papers very frequently contained criticisms of all
men—(laughter)—he was certain that no man who
loved the institutions of this country would desire
to fetter the freedom of the press. (Hear, hear.) A
great many errors were propagated by the press,
but a great deal of truth also. He believed that the
truth was greater than the error, and that, there-
fore, the country gained by the unfettered freedom
and liberty of the press. (Applause.) He was par-
ticularly pleased to have to propose the toast of the
press on that occasion, coupled with the name of
Mr. Baines, the editor of the Leeds Mercury, than
whom no man connected with the press had pur-
sued a more consistent, honest, and honourable
course, or had done more to elevate the character
of the press. (Applause.)
Mr. E. BAINES, in responding to the toast, said
Lord Goderich had truly stated that the press was
an instrument which might be used for good or for
evil, but he (Mr. Baines) was quite sure that on
the whole it was one of the main props of the liberty
of England. (Hear, hear.) There was, however, a
great responsibility attaching to those who had the
use of and the control over that power. (Hear.)
The press might be used to promote the highest
interests of the country; not merely to uphold
liberty, not merely fairly, freely, and boldly to
canvass the merits of a minister, a statesman, or a
Government, but to allay terror in the time of
danger, to heal panic, to unite those who were
divided, to put down prejudices, to remove un-
founded accusations, to carry on the great princi-
ples of liberty and progress, and to aid every
improvement in the country, moral, social, intellec-
tual, and political. (Applause.) He believed that
the press had been for years past doing much more
good- in this country than evil, and had advanced
to a very considerable degree the material and
social interests of the land. (Applause.)