The Sun.
London, England, 1867-12-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LON DON,; FRIDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 13, 1867.

THE VOLUNTEERS.

The annual distribution of prizes to the members
of the Ist Middlesex Artillery Volunteers who had
been successful in the various shooting competitions
of the year was held last night at the headquarters
of the regiment, Leicester-square. It was expected
that the Duke of Buckingham would preside at the
ceremony of presentation, but his Grace was pre-
vented from attending through the pressure of offi-
cial business. The attendance at the distribution
was very numerous and fashionable, and the display
of prizes, consisting of massive centrepieces and tazza
cups by Streeter, was unusually brilliant and pictur-
esque. Mrs. Creed, wife of the commanding officer of
the corps, presided, and was supported by Lord
Ranelagh, Lieut.-Col. Creed, and the other officers
of the Ist Middlesex Artillery. Col. Creed, in open-
ing the proceedings, alluded to the part the corps
had taken in the field-days at Dover and Wimble-
don, and said he was happy to congratulate them
on the creditable appearance they made on those
occasions. Col. Chirnside had lately inspected the
corps, and had given his highest testimony to the
manner in which the men had performed their
evolutions. The regiment was in a very satisfac-
tory condition as regarded efficiency and numerical
strength. The brigade to which the Ist Middlesex
belonged consisted of three regiments. There were
383 members of the corps, and of these no less than
301 were efficients. They had seven batteries, and
in one of these, consisting of 71 members, which he
had inspected the night before, no less than 60 were
efficient. The number of Government drills required
to qualify a man as an efficient was 12, but he was
glad to find that some of his own men had performed
as many as 119 drills during the past year. The
following are the names of the principal prize win-
ners and the rewards which they respectively
received :—Garrison gun prizes.-Ist prize, Por-
trait, painted and presented by Gunner F.
A. Phillips, Sergeant Gibbon. Other prizes
in the same class :—Trumpeter-Major Orme,
Corporal E. Tracy, Bombardier Herbert. Bom-
bardier Gibson, Gunner Haig, Gunner Phillips,
and Gunner A. Rymer. Field gun prizes, value
£loo—First prize, Sergeant Long, winner of the
Duke of Buckingham's prize. Other prizes in
same class—Gunners Boswood, Shanks, G. N.
Miller, Warner, and Edwards. Colonel Creed's
prizes for field guns at unknown distances—First,
Captain Hunt. Other prizes in same class—Assis-
tant-Surgeon Donne, Quartermaster-Sergeant
Tabrum, Bombardier Waud, and Gunners Parry,
Badger, and White. Brigade competition with
garrison guns—First prize, Captain Dixon. Other
prizes in same class—Sergeant-Major Taylor,
Bombardier Everist, and Gunners Prichard, Wells,
Badger, and Newton. Carbine prizes were awarded
to Bombardier A. Garnham, Corporal Clarke,
Gunner Brooks, Corporal Meens, Captain Dixon,
and Bombardier Edwards, in competition 1 ; and to
Bombadier Garnham, Lieutenant Craggs, Bom-
bardier \Vaud, Captain Monkton, Sergeant-Major
Tilfor, and Gunner Bird. The Ladies' Consolation
prizes were won by Gunners Shanks and Hist and
Bombardier Gibson. Lord Ranelagh said he had been
called upon to make some remarks on the Volunteer
movement in its general aspect.. The subject of artil-
lery was a very difficult one upon which to speak,
for the changes that had taken place in modern
warfare were so extensive that what was expedient
50 years ago would not be so now. Defence had
become more difficult than offence, and artillery,
which used to be directed from positions against
large masses, was now employed as the circum-
stances of the time demanded. In coast defence,
too, heavy guns were now directed not against
wooden ships, but against broadsides which could
resist them. He had very strong opinions, and he
would utter them in that place. Those who said
that the great Volunteer force as at present consti-
tuted could not keep the field for 48 hours were
quite right, and those who thought otherwise
were wrong. They had not the proper appliances
of warfare; they had no commissariat, no hospital
staff, no telegraph train. All would be confusion
and chaos i❑ the field under the present organisa-
tion. When a review was held in Hyde-pack with
some 20,000 men, they required 100 or 150 officers.
One hundred and eighty thousand men would re-
quire 900 officers ; and where were they to be ob-
tained ? Why had they not proper combination ?
When the service was first instituted they were
told they should remain in companies, but on his
(Lord Ranelagh's) representations, Lord Herbert
had the volunteers formed into battalions. Nothing
but jealousy now prevented them from being formed
into brigades. A great deal had been lately said
about what took place at Mentana, but he believed
that the men fought there as well as men could
fight ; but they were like the volunteers in England
—they had no proper organisation. The cere-
mony of presentation was then proceeded with,
after which cheers were given for Mrs. Creed and
Colonel Creed. The proceedings terminated with
the performance of the National Anthem by the
band.

saved by Hoodlers riding into the water and bring-
ing them off. It should be added that many parts
of the Lincolnshire coast are very flat, and often
shallower at some distance from the land.—Taos.
DonsoN, Coxswain of the Lifeboat."

upon Italian unity, it wishes, as M. Rouher said,
that mutual hatred and distrust should be forgotten,
and it would hasten the time when that unity, being
constituted, must understand that its part is to de-
fend the sovereignty of the Holy Father. It believes
that as the advice of Europe can exercise a happy
influence in causing this idea of conciliation to pre-
vail, the Conference has lost none of the opportu-
nities open to it. It has expressed itself in this
sense towards the different Governments, and the
negotiation entered into before the deliberations in
the Chambers is still proceeded with."

ROME AND THE POLICY OF THE
FRENCH GIIVERNMENT.

-~►-

SPEECHES OF M. TIIIERS AND M. ROUHER.

In a former number we gave the substance of
M. Thiers' famous speech, which forced from the
Government a clear and categorical statement of
their policy on the Roman question. The conclusion
of his speech, and the important reply of M.
Rouher, we now give in full :
Look at Italy. The situation there is deplorable, for
we have made no one happy ; neither the Pope, nor Italy,
nor France. You expected to work wonders by the Con-
vention ; but you have not placed the Pope out of reach
of danger, and you have deprived Italy of her strength in
removing her Crown from the strong city of Turin to the
soft and pleasant city of Florence, which received it with
a smile. Sicily is absolutely detached from the govern-
ment ; Naples ready to rise ; Milan unsettled ; and Turin,
irritated, speaks openly of destroying Italian unity. And
that unhappy King, enclosed in the Pitti Palace—built
for the Medici, and not for the wolves of Savoy—not
daring to return to his native country, where his statues
are overthrown—he is well punished for having played
the Mazzinian part of overthrower of thrones. He is
perhaps the only man in Italy that clings to France, and
he has said—" If you do not give me Rome, I am lost."
This mistaken policy must be quitted. But it is asked—
The rest of Europe ? We must not misconceive the ties
which attach this question to that of Germany. There
is always the danger of seeing these two causes united,
and our situation would then be that of Austria, but
with this difference—that we should have the French
army. (Hear, hear.) The eminent statesman who at
this moment directs Prussia is too able not to be moderate.
He feels that, when France has such duties in Italy, to
intervene against her would be to draw on himself uni-
versal censure. We must not, however, believe that
Prussia will too easily abandon her ally of Sadowa, and
I do not say that if we sent an army into Italy Prussia
would not interfere. I do not, therefore, ask the over-
throw of Italian unity. What I demand is, that we should
not permit ourselves to be deceived by Italian cunning.
I repeat, I do not say it is necessary to destroy Italian
unity ; no, the fault is committed ; but confident in the
power of frankness, I would say, "You have never been
willing to comprehend me. Well, now, lam going to be
clearer : and in no case will I abandon the Pope to you."
(Rear, hear.) And here are the reasons ;" I compromised
my interests in permitting you to unite with Prussia ; I
allowed you to doubt my loyalty in delivering up to you
the various states of Italy ; I cannot sacrifice my political
considerations to you !" Let us look at the position of
France before the world. From Mexico (various move-
ments)—from Mexico we withdrew our troops to pre-
serve peace with the United States ; last year we allowed
to be consummated in Germany an immense revolution
against us ; and to-day we should abandon the Pontifical
States to Italy ? What ! France, so powerful, so proud,
abandon thus positions which her honour commands her
to retain ! (No, no.) Should she do so, the world
will say the conduct of France towards the Pope has
been one long perfidy. Even should the Conference
pronounce that abandonment, it will be said—France
hid herself behind Protestant Europe to abandon the Pope.
I should say, therefore, to Italy : I cannot deliver you my
honour. Before such a declaration what Power could
seek a quarrel with you ? Either Italy would submit, or,
throwing herself on your sword, you, like the wise man
obliged to defend himself against a maniac, would use that
weapon to cover yourself and not to kill. You would not
have destroyed Italian unity, but the latter would have
impaled itself on your steel. (Hear, hear.) The counsel
I give you is a friendly one. I gave it you three
years ago, and again last year. I have always told you,
and I repeat it. You can only escape from the difficult
situation in which you are placed by an act of frankness and
loyalty ; that is to say, of good policy.,,; (pyol.onged move-
ment, and applause.)

M. ROUHER said—Gentlemen, I shall address myself
principally to the justification of 'the conduct of the Go-
vernment in the past and at the present ; I will then in-
quire whether it be true that the policy pursued is
marked by indecision, reticence, and ambiguity ; and I
hope to make my declarations so clear as. to Idisrel all
obscurity, and enable me boldly to appeal to the loyalty
of public opinion. First, I believe it will be of use to
inquire what are the character, the scope, and the object
of the revolution which has threatened Rome ? I will
then judge the conduct respectively of the Italian and
French Governments; afterwards, I will turn to the ob-
jections of the hon. M. Thiers against the Italian cam-
paign and against Italian unity, and will endeavour to
justify, from every point of view, social and moral, the
intervention which the Opposition reproaches us with ;
finally, I will approach and ripple with the dilemma in
which some have sought to place us, and I hope to do so
with a frankness which will bring every troubled con-
science round to the loyal declarations of the Government.
(Hear, hear.) What was the character of the revolution
which menaced Rome ? Was it prepared in darkness
and mystery, in order suddenly to show itself in the light
of day ? No ; it was publicly organized, developed in
view of the Pontifical territory, on the soil of Italy, alto-
gether too hospitable towards it. Was, at least, the im-
prudence of these preparations compensated for by the
rapidity of the execution? Not at all. During eight
months the Pontifical States were under the double menace
of an invasion and of an insurrection at Rome. Italy was
disturbed by it ; France was disquieted ; Europe was
moved. The Revolution was anxious, during this inter-
val, to assume the appearance of a regular power. General
Garibaldi addressed to the Ministers of England, Prussia,
and Russia, resident at Rome, a circular note, informing
hem that he had been appointed, in 1848, Governor of
Rome, and that his authority not having ceased to be
valid—for the Pope is only a usurper—he intended to re-
sume his rights and his power. (A laugh.) What was
its plan ? To provoke insurrection in Rome, and then to
support it by corps of volunteers who should by that
time have crossed the Pontifical frontier. What were its
means of organization ? Subscriptions which had been
collected, chiefly in England, depots of arms, enlistment
offices where, amongst men of honest convictions, there
were mercenaries—(hear) —because on etrroling them they
were paid a premium, and promised quadruple pay. Gari-
baldi was at the head of two secret societies at Rome—the
National Committee and the Centre of Insurrection. He
also acted at Florence, and that publicly, as President of
the National Committee of the Roman Refugees. Some
time.passed ; the volunteers drew near to the Pontifical
frontier, and on the 21st of June 200 of them attempted to
cross. But the insurrection did not break out at Rome,
and these 200 volunteers were repulsed at Terni and
dispersed by the Italian army.
A Voice—Roman.

M. ROM:MR.—No ;by the Italian army. The two
Roman committees were reconstituted, and all the mem-
bers suspected of moderatism excluded. Discouragement,
however, seemed to have seized on the revolutionists,
and Garibaldi appeared to be on the point of abandoning
his project. A Peace Congress was then assembled at
Geneva (laughter), where all the revolutionists met.

M GARNIER-PAGES.—Tkere were secret agents to pro-
voke excesses. (Noise).

M. Rouiten.--the Governments would not have ex-
ceeded their rights in sending agents to Geneva to watch
the meetings of the revolutionists ; but they were spared
the trouble by the publication of the bulletins of the pro-
ceedings. I will only quote some fragments of the
speeches of Garibaldi ; M. Garnier-Pages will then see
whether he ought to apply to him the qualification em-
ployed just now. (Laughter of approval.) Garibaldi, who
had received an ovation on his arrival, left like a fugi-
tive. This miserable Congress terminated amidst the in-
dignation of the inhabitants. The impulse had, however,
been given, and some Italian deputies of the Left and
senators took up the movement. Menotti Garibaldi formed
bands openly, and took them to Monte Rotondo. Those
acts were taking place before an expiring Government.
The Italian press entered into a conspiracy of falsehood.
The successes of the Pontifical troops were transformed
into defeats ; Rome was said to have risen in insurrec-
tion; the Pope was stated to have left the Vatican, and
the credulous populace considered Rome as already con-
quered. Garibaldi arrived at Florence, harangued the
people, and told them that they were menaced by a foreign
fleet, which would, however, be dispersed before the breath
of the people. (Laughter.) The French fleet did not,
however, disappear as he had predicted, and the invaders
received a just chastisement at Montana. Yes! a great
number of men fell before the improved fire-arms of our
soldiers ; but let their partisans be consoled ; all the
chiefs escaped, and not one was touched. On several
occasions the leaders of the Revolution in their incendiary
proclamations promised to conquer or die. Garibaldi cried
out, "Golgotha or Rome!" He wished for a calvary.
But we must do them the justice that they did not receive
a scratch. What did Garibaldi want at Rome ? I have
heard during the last three :days ingenious and subtle
distinctions between the spiritual and temporal powers.
But that was not his object. He wished to crush them
both in his hatred. In February last, at Venice, he said,
" There is still a portion of our country out of the fold.
If those mitred gentlemen will not give up Rome, which
is our capital, to Italy, we will force them. It is time
for the priests to finish deceiving, sullying, and drag-
ging in the mire the first :people in the world, and
making a sewer of the city. Italy has brave men
enough to take Rome by arms, if necessary. Rome
is ours legally. We must go there as if we were
going to our own house." And one of the audience, in

his excitement, exclaimed, "He speaks like -a god."
On the 22d of May he wrote to Colonel Chambers,
in England : " Hundreds of years ago your
brave and energetic nation overthrew the taber-
nacle of idolatry and falsehood ; we will follow your; cou-
rageous example, and in the place of impurity, misery, and
tyranny, we will place the true religion of God the
Father, the Saviour of all, and the real fraternity of free
nations." Such was the first symptom of a true religion
inaugurated by Garibaldi. (Laughter.) At Geneva, ad-
dressing the people from the balcony of M. Fazy's house,
he said :—" Here your ancestors had the courage to attack
that pestilential institut'on called the Papacy. I ask you
now to complete the work of your ancestors when we
shall give the first blow to the monster." (Exclamation.)
Lastly, in the first sitting of the Congress, he brought
forward his political, social, and religious programme, of
which the following is an extract :—" Sixthly. The Papacy
is declared to be abolished." This statement was followed
by bravos with prolonged cries of " Vive Garibaldi!"
" 7th. The religion of God is adopted by the Congress, and
each of the members engages to propagate it over the
surface of the world." One indiscreet hearer asked,
" What god do you mean ?" (Laughter.) Garibaldi
continued :—" I owe you a word of explanation on the
religion of God of which I have just spoken. By that I
mean the religion of truth and the religion of reason."
And every one exclaimed " Bravo !" Such is the doctrine
of the revolutionists whom we have to combat. They
make no distinction between the spiritual and temporal
powers. What they desire is the fall of the Papacy and
the inauguration of a new religion. At Voghera, a few days
later, Garibaldi addressed the crowd: "Be ready," he said,
"to cure yourselves of the black vomit." (Murmurs.) A
few miles further on he continued in language which I can
scarcely quote. (Yes, yes.) " I am not a rhetorician,"
said Garibaldi, "and I will speak frankly. If Italy has
not the place in the world she ought to occupy the fault
lies with the black race. Let us go to Rome to drive out
that nest of black vipers. The place must be thoroughly
purged (exclamations). It must be rid of that black tribe
which is more fatal than cholera morbus." (Fresh excla-
mations.) Europe and France should know what are the
objects of this revolution. And now, did the Italian Go-
vernment do its duty, as France accomplished hers ? I
believe that up to the 21st September it was sincere but
weak. After the22nd of that month I do not hesitate to
declare that it 'was complaisant, subordinate, and almost
an accomplice. (Movement.) It had declared in all its
despatches that it would execute the September Conven-
tion even by force. I believe that M. Rattazzi was
sincere, but he was pursuing a chimera - that of prevent-
ing an aggression on Rome by his good relations with the
Left. That is an idea often nourished by statesmen, who
think that by concessions to the Opposition they may con_
ciliate it ; but they only arrive at lamentable and dangerous
compromises with the Revolution, and are eventually
swept away by it. (Hear, hear.) After the 21st September
the dyke which had been opposed to the invasion was re-
moved, and the revolutionary torrent•hurried on unro•
strained, profiting by a parliamentary interregnum of a
week, which left Italy for a time without a government.
Were we dupes, as M. Jules Favre says ? What could
we do? We pointed out to the King of Italy the revo-
lutionary leaders indicated to us by our counsels. Could
we have Garibaldi arrested and the offices of enrolment
closed by French gendarmes ? Do you think that in the
verbal relations which continually take place between an
ambassador and the Foreign Minister of the country to
which accredited, opinions are not being continually ex-
changed? Do you believe that the Italian Government
had not been warned that on the day:on which Garibaldi
should set his foot on the Pontifical territory France
would interfere ? A part of the French press, by its cry
of "No intervention !" contributed to diminish the effect
of that salutary menace. Those journals said, " Will you
crush the weak ? will you destroy yourown work ? The
nation is not with you." Abroad the journals of the
Opposition are willingly believed—they are supposed to
represent public opinion ; and this language of the press
it was that encouraged the perturbators and hurried so
many unfortunatejmen on to the battle-field of Mentana.
The French Government exercised great moderation and
firmness. It refused to identify the Italian nation with an
ephemeral Cabinet ;it gave tune for a Liberal-Conser-
vative Ministry, disposed to respect treaties, to be for
med; and was able to preserve the Holy Father,without
having to combat with Italian troops. (Hear, hear.) I
am here led to explain the differences which separate me
from M. Thiers, for on many points we share the same
ideas. :He said yesterday that nations are in a state of
nature ; that they have no law or jurisdiction to cause
it to be respected ; that might decides their conflicts ; that
the weak group around the strong for protection against
other nations which are stronger, and that this state of
things is called the balance of power. In this order of
ideas politics consist in not allowing one's neighbour to
become too great. M. Thiers also said that this principle
was contested in the name of the false principle of na-
tionalities, that unsound theory had already several times
compromised the interests of France, and that no other
nation had applied it. The campaign of 1850 was directed
against the interest of that equilibrium, and it was in
opposition to that same interest that bypersevering conni-
vance, in spite of the treatise of Villafranca and Zurich,
Italian unity was constituted. I earnestly protest against
the idea that nations are without laws and jurisdiction.
Has not the Emperor Napoleon always taken the initative
of that arbitral jurisdiction, the absence of which M. Thiers
regrets ? Has he not attempted to constitute it in such
a manner as to put an end to the scourge of war ? (Hear,
hear.) But in fact what was the Italian war? I have
already explained its origin twenty times. But as the
same criticisms are repeated they must be again refuted,
or at least not be allowed to pass unchallenged. (The
honourable minister then passed in review the causes
which led to the war in 1869, showing that the presence
of Austria on the Alps was a continual menace to France.)
He then continued :—We are told that after Villafranca we
failed in fulfilling our engagements by allowing Italian
unity to be accomplished. It was based on two elements :
the first I respect, the second I blame. The states whic:i
Piedmont first annexed had beefrabandoned by their Sove-
reigns. Were we to go and support those princes who had
fought against us at Solferino, and who had taken refuge
at Vienna ? When subsequently the hero of Caprera at-
tacked Sicily with his thousand men, that was no longer
a movement of independence but of revolution. That is
the element I blame. Yes, the conquest of the Two
Sicilies, accomplished by Garibaldi and accepted by Victor
Emmanuel, imposed on the King of Italy a heavy mutual
responsibility, of which he is now supporting in a large
measure the chastisement. His responsibility became
afterwards greater when he seized on the Marches and
Umbria. I must here again contradict the calumny which
M. Jules Favre has repeated, namely, that the French
Government had verbally authorized the expedition against
those provinces. I have now to examine the question
whether the expedition of 1867 is justified by international
law, by the Convention of September, and by great Euro-
pean interests. We are told that we have violated the
principle of non-intervention in going to protect the
Sovereign Pontiff. This is as much as saying that it is
unlawful to aid the robbed against the robber. (Loud
cheers of adhesion.) Our duty as an allied power was to
arrest the invader. (Fresh applause.)

M. EUGENE PELLETAN.—fiat was what Austria said
to Charles Bonaparte in 1831.
M. RourrEß.—l did not catch the purport of the inter-
ruption, but what I can say is, that on the day on which
such principles shall triumph, civilization will have re-
ceded before barbarism. (Hear, hear.) M. Thiers has
qualified the Convention as absurd. Yet by it Italy
recognized the Pontifical States, contracted an obligation
towards Rome, and effaced the vote of the Italian parlia-
ment in 1861. (Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, if, after the
invasion of Garibaldi, France had remained indifferent,
she would have fallen very low in the opinion of the world.
(Yes, yes.) Our intervention against parasite and disor-
derly forces was not commanded solely in the interest of
Rome. It served also to protect the throne of Victor
Emmanuel. In preserving Rome from invasion we have
saved Italy from anarchy. I do not reveal completely
enough all the plots made at Geneva ; the foetid miasmas
of the demagogy have reached even the soil of Paris.
There was a miserable attempt at an appeal to arms,
which sank into shame. All conspirators are acquainted
with each other ; evil passions know how to unite, and
the three projected centres of insurrection were Rome,
Florence, and Paris. (Movement.) I would not have my
words exaggerate my thoughts. We were not in any way
disturbed by it. All Governments are exposed to such
attempts. The dregs of all evil passions accumulate in
the lower social stratum, and sometimes will come to the
surface. (Hear, hear.) M. Jules Favre has endeavoured
to show that the Convention has been destroyed by the
Encyclical Letter of the Bth November ; by the Pope's
allocution in the Consistory of 1857, and again by the act
of France. Lastly, he says that we are dispensed from
executing the treaty by superior interests. There is some-
thing strange in those arguments. He does not hesitate
to say that the independence of the Holy Father should
be absolute, that his spiritual power ought to be protected
from all attack, and that to defend itself it has no need
of the temporal power. And yet, in the face of that tem-
poral power, he seizes on words addressed exclusively to
Catholic conscience—language which the Pope uttered,
not as a Prince, but as a Pontiff.
M. JULES FAVRE.—You confound what I said.
M. ROURER.—M. Jules Favre makes of the allocution a
cases belli against the Pope. But let us grant him what he
asks ; let us suppose a King of Italy enthroned at Rome
by the side of the Papacy, and let the Holy Father then
oppose himself to any recent law, the sale of ecclesiastical
property for example. Would not the Sovereign on his
side then have the power of charging him with preaching
up sedition, and even of throwing him into prison ? Such
is the independence you offer to the Holy See ! And the
Legion of Antibes ! How much agitation has been caused
by the formation of this corps of 1,200 men, for some
months past reduced to 800 ! Nevertheless the Conven-
tion authorized the Pope to form an army composed of
foreign Catholics. At the request of the Roman Govern-
ment we authorized enrolments in the legion, and con-
sented that the men enlisted should not lose their nation-
ality. We even allowed French officers to take the
command. But did that make it a French legion, under
the control of the Minister of War? By no insane. The

Moniteur de rArmee, in February, 1866, published full
details about the constitution of the corps in question, and
explained that the grades conferred on the officers by the
Roman Government would in no case be recognized by
that of the Emperor, and that the soldiers could not allege
their nationality to withdraw themselves from the Roma"
jurisdiction and discipline. Certain desertions subs&
quently took place, and the colonel wrote to the Minister
of War on the subject. Marshal Niel replied ; but his
letter, made public by an indiscretion, had never all
other than a strictly private character. A short time after
General Dumont went to make personal observations aS
to the desertions in a military point of view. Was that a
violation of the Convention ? How was it that Italy,
under such circumstances, did not demand the suppres-
sion of the legion ? She certainly did nothing of the
kind ; and upon explanations being given she recognized
the probity of our conduct ; but, in fact, such matters are
really too trivial to dwell upon. Gentlemen, allusions,
partly ironical and partly serious, have been made to other
treaties, which we are accused of having left to take care
of themselves ; the London Treaty of 1852, concerning
Denmark, for example. But by that act we never bolted
ourselves to guarantee Denmark against all aggression;
we merely adhered to the settled order of succession. An
did the other great Powers who signed the treaty feel
themselves called on to intervene ? By no means. As t°
the German war it was not brought about by the events in
Denmark ; the duel which ended at Sadowa was inevit'
able, and had been long before premeditated. But We are
also charged with violating the Treaty of Miramar, and
thus becoming responsible for the tragedy of Queretaro'
That treaty, however, did not fix any date for the with-
drawal of our troops ; and we recalled them, not in obe-
dience to any foreign injunction, but in compliance If°
the desire manifested by this assembly. (Yes, yes.)
M. JULES FAVRE—You ought to have consulted it lx-
forehand.

M. Rounzen—We wished to bring back the unfortunate
Maximilian to Europe, and few knew the supplications We
addressed to him to induce him to quit that land f
anarchy. Let us leave the responsibility on those qho
have assumed it by a crime, for if we were to go Wit
to original causes we should, perhaps, find too many in
the dangerous revolutionary feeling directed against we
French flag from France itself. (Great applattee.)
Another reproach has been cast on us by M. Jule's
Fevre ; we are accused of having picked up fragments
of the Encyclical Letter to serve as wads for the Chas"
sepot rifles. The metaphor, however striking, is °l3 :
plagiarism ; for long ago M. Billault said that the speeches
of the Opposition served as wads for the rifles of Juatr
(Applause.) I have now done with the opponents of Wed
Government, and shall next turn to the majority, all
say a few words in reply to the questions put to
These are three in number, viz. :—What will your Stet-
do at Rome ? If the Conference meets, what will be Y°`
attitude ? And, lastly, if it does not meet, what will
the conduct of the Government ? On the first
reply, the French troops will remain at Ronie as long '
the security of the Pope shall render their presence Pe;
cessary ; and by the word "security" the Goverulnent
means to speak not only of material tranquillity,
also of serious guarantees to be given by Italy, care,
cially after all the deceptions we have expericeee-;
(Great applause.) On the subject of the Conference wsi
have declared to all the Powers that we would li°t
form any programme. Do you wish to be more Mtn
lml than they ? We shall present ourselves to that asse
with our past akd our present in our hands. And has ll°
the Pope, the most interested party of all,
idea without reserve ? How, then, can you feel an)
tation under such circumstances ? I now come W
this
dilemma : the Pope wants Rome, and Italy cann°t "0-
without it. We declare that Italy shall not seize leo
Rome. (Sensation, and prolonged applause.) 11113:4
will never submit to such a violence committed on m"
honour and on Catholicity in general. (Renewed 11„P;
probation.) She demands from Italy the -rigorous 11-1.
accepted th.e
energetic execution of the Convention of SePteln. be„,.;
and if this be not conceded she will supply the deficiency
herself. Is that clear enough ? (Applause again renewe',
Gentlemen, if your plaudits cause me great emotion the'
are also the occasion of some little embarrassment, lnansi
much as whilst we firmly support the Convention va
September we desire to see Italian unity respected 9:13d,
strengthened. We wish the two Powers to co-exist
by side.

GIIEROTJLT—That is very difficult.
M. RolmEn—We should be very unwilling to See °Pit,
work accomplished by our victories torn to pieces. 1811-$
tertain a profound conviction that if the two questi°,-0
were proposed to the people of this country-I)°,3f
or
wish for the overthrow of the Pope, or do you wish ,
the destruction of Italian unity, the answer would be 416
gative in both cases. Our best policy lies in allowing :fig
two powers to co-exist. We should be wrong in
towards Italy the menacing language of M. Thiers.
cons btu;
should rather say to her, " Above all. things
yourself. You who are a nation without precedent/ trti,
dition, or experience, cast out of your bosom the Bev°„r,
tion which unfortunately contributed to your origin; -to
ganise your credit and finances ;in fact, become ti,l3
like the others. Have no fear because an old rnae :or,
drezeers prayers to heaven under the arches of St.
for with his extended hands this same old man tran,clo„l,t
lizes the disturbed consciences of all Catholics. (ur,:„r
applause.) We should also counsel Italy to live on in P-1.,
present unity, to respect the domain of the Holy Fatis3.o
and then the Liberal and Conservative element
gradnally develop itself in that country. Gentlemen/ o,
Gueroult said just now that the task which rre ffere.
posed was a very difficult one; but in our favour
letuo,
is time, whose sovereign power always ends in

ing to justice and truth.
M. GURROULT-But have you time at your disroB4l? 01
M. Roman—The interruption is a strange °lle'oy
what are you afraid Of the Revolution ? Idle
hension ! The power of evil is only ephemeral, awhile
lasting greatness depends only on the power of c,
which has the impress of God Himself. (Warm aPPrLa,9
tion.) And is not history full of examples of ha"-ti.
extinguished, interests reconciled, harmonies re-0•
Llished ? Why, then, suppose that the inveteracy beilfeem
Italy and the Papacy will remain eternal? (Adheß:i
Gentlemen, I have now given all the explanations
power. As to the two interpellations, we reject the
in toto, and hope we are in a complete commutsu°l3ol
ideas with those who presented the second. Is f $
(Yes, yes.) Well, then, let this accord be slip Bros
unanimous vote of confidence. The Revolution is e'do
the watch, seeking to enter the stronghold by anl,b; col
that offers. Can you doubt our capacity for E.,:cipoot
when you have as pledges the victory of Montana'''. awed
flag floating over the walls of Civita Vecchia? Oell-
applause.)
.„„ ia.
The sittm. g then remained suspended for 0°"":
stants, and a great number of members crowded '-
4
00
the hon. minister to congratulate him. In the ella'aid,'
M. ROEMER again ascended the tribune, and 4, tie;
Gentlemen, during the short suspension of the 8; or
some members have expressed to me a fear i.tjj,..for°'
words were not sufficiently clear. I will add, tn,..e-nei the
that when I spoke of Rome, I meant to speak 'aro'
present Pontifical territory in all its integrity
longed approbation, and cries of " Vote, vote n

1:46;
[ADVEATlSEMENT.]—llyepepsia(lndigestion), ConstiPaAnd
bility, Consumption, and all nervous, bilious, stonntell',,,eieWvii
complaints in every stage, are only aggravated and tie IVA II
by thugs of every description, but perfectly Cura-rove-0•11
Barry's health-restoring nevalents. Arabica Food, Jess,
thousands of cases which had been considered hoP-,. ver
as—cough, asthma, also diarrhoea, haamorrhoid6, thre-0,1
plaints, flatulency, nervousness, biliousness, fevers, forboci
diphtheria, catarrhs, colds, influenza, noises in the ..,enrTA,
ears, rheumatism, gout, impurities, eruptions, hybsetaerirtt_lDirsni,c3;llbreal::
irritability, sleeplessness, acidity, palpitation,
ache, debility, dropsy, cramps, spasms, nausea an." ficr°,ool
even in pregnancy or at sea, sinking fits, brouchos!,,chlib
tightness of the chest, pains at the pit of the stel"ee h jolt
between the shoulders, &c. We quote a few7Peroe,4,ll,
restored by Du Barry's Food. Cure No. 68,413.-- espe",ell
12, 1866.—The health of the Holy Father is excelletn%d bon' Do
since, abandoning all other remedies, he has cznilrobieD•or.
entirely to Du Barry's Revalenta Arabica Food, °,,„cetl 001
consumes a plateful at every meal. It has Pre"- ees ati
prisingly beneficial effect on his health, and his prase, bei
praise this excellent food too highly."—From the rts, tP•;,ss,
Midi, July 25 Cure No. 46,270 Mr James itnbeied
merchant, of Frimley, Surrey, of thirty years' disei deaf,' of
spitting of blood, liver derangement, and VOWS Lictwtl
Cure No. 1,771. Lord Stuart de Decies, Lor
.32. ;00,
Waterford, of many years' dyspepsia.—No. 49,:lervon! eoc!
years' indescribable agony from dyspePsieh s'icsoe';oon,
asthma, cough, constipation, flatulency. spasms, of tile,tooo.
vomiting.—Maria Jolly." Important Caution.—aware 1,1!
unsavoury and more than sloppy imitations to att.o ile..
authority, Baron Liebig's name is most audacious Y
In tins at Is. lid.; 1 lb., 2s 9d. 2 lbs., 4s. 6d4Co, inijoi;
12 lbs., 225.; 24 lbs., 405.— BARRY Do BARBI!. et",, pfoOrg6g,
ategent-street, London; also Fortnam and Mason,_"so, and
and at 61, Gracechurch-street; 4, Cheapside;
Oxford-street; 330 Strand; and all grocers and nnv—

ROTTON Births.
Henry
lEli sqh .i,nosft dtaFugihkter. of
DUNDAS
Henr n the 11th inst., at Dundas Castle, the
, 0 0:.•t 0 ,
Rotton, R.A f
STIFF—On the 10th inst., at 135, K Pri'-
re'enniegton-
no the wife of C°3l:

the wife of Wm. Stiff, Esq., of a son.
Marriages.
CHAPMAN—HARDING—On the 11th inst., at Ale's-di_.,q;
Upper Norwood, Frederic Chapman, Esq., cd
to Annie Mai ion, the eldest da-ughter of 13,01/8"
Harding, Esq., of Sydenham-hill. pall°
Hoommt--HOwELL— On the 11th inst., at Sai„.t-rtl6l'
r
Church, Edward, youngest son of George 1:10c6:01;5hle
of 10, Gloucester-crescent, to Matilda, youllgereat.
of James Howell, Esq., of 15, Mornington-reB
,tford'

Deaths. Str9":' g-
EDEms-sAeßxn, sG—eoOrng
et the
William
inst.,
Edwards,at T hEesqG re 00,
lane, aged 72.
HAYLES 011
Hayles, Esq., of Somerset House. pro ~I
—On the 12th inst., at Stoke Ne.vv' :aig26t:ae°ll6
PnovAN—On the 11th just., at Macclesfield, Josh. lop
Esq., for upwards of 30 years editor of the "gacc ~
Courier," aged 67.
the 11th inst., at RadiP°le )3°y-'gouges 101"
TAYLOR —On
Taylor, Esq., aged 71. t
WETHERALL On the 11th inst., at Governif enf cleaer
Sir George
College, Sandhurst, Sotahnedrhaluir,t. Frances Diana, wile °
__-----------;-11h,,tg

London : Printed and Publiehed-by--W-112.141).A. 14° I.lo't
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Tas Sun °P'lO/4
Strand in the Precinct of the SPvoy, Siie
filidcUe6ox.—Friday, December V, 1867.