The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-19 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.-(YESTERDAY.)

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
M 5 o'clock.

Lord LYNDHURST presented a petition from
Clerkenwe 1, praying for an equalizcion of the poor rates

THE CAGLIARI.

The NMI LORD then said he wished to call the atten-
tion of the house to a publication lately issued by the
Neapolitan Government. It related to the capture cf
the Cagliari steamer, and the detention of two of our
fellow subjects. The law was laid down by the noble
viscount lately at the head of the Government.
He stated "that the captain of the Cagliari
had voluntarily conducted the vessel into the
Neapolitan waters, in that case he (Lord Palmerston)
would not be justified in interfering in favour of the two
British subjects before the case eae investigated by the
Neipolitan authorities. But if the vessel were taken
by superior force outside the Neapolitan waters, then
the British Government were entitled to demand the
instant release of the two men. He (Lord Lyndhurst)
had no doubt that that was the opinion of the
law officers of the Crown. The document io
question, which had lately been issued by the Nea-
politan Government, stated that the seizure had been
effected by two frigates on the high seas, and by them
brought into Neapolitan waters:. (Hear, hear.) Upon
that statement we had a perfect right to demand the
instant liberation of our countrymen. He did not in-
tend to put any question to the Government on the
subject, bucwas perfectly willing to leave it to them to
determine, owing to the time that had elapsed since the
capture had been effected. He merely threw out these
observations for their considel'ation.

The Ea:l of MALMESBURY—My Loris, before I
make any remarks upon what has fallen from my noble
friend, I beg the house distinctly to understand that up
to the 26th of the last month her Majesty's Government
are in no degree responsible for any steps which may
have been taken either by her Majesty's Government or
by the Sardinian Government with respect to the cap-
ture of the Cagliari. That being, as lam sure it will at
once be, admitted on both sides of the house, I think it
may be as well to state to your lordships in a very few
words what the history of the capture of the Cagliari
really was. That vessel started from Genoa bound for
Naples ; and she had among her crew two Englishmen
as engineers. It appears there were also a certain num-
ber of men, who had disguised themselves as passen-
gers, and taken their passage on board the vessel.
After she had proceeded to sea some distance, these
men rose upon the crew and overpowered them.
They then proceeded to an island on which there
were a number of convicts. These they liberated ;
and, accompanied by them, they proceeded to a point
on the territory of Naples, where they landed with the
object of raising the country against the Neapolitan Go-
vernment. They afterwards permitted the captain and
crew of the Cagliari to depart. It is stated that the
captain wanted to go to Naples, which was his original
and lawful destination ; and though there is no positive
proof of it, I believe such to have been the case ; but
whether that was so or not, he was met by two Neapo-
litan frigates, which were, no doubt, looking out for him
and he was taken into the port of Naples. The Neapo-
litan government laid claim to jurisdiction over the cap-
tain and crew, and instituted an investigation to ascer-
tain whether they bad been parties to the acts of violence
which had been committed on its territory ; or whether
they were entirely innocent of those acts. It is upon
this point that a great controversy has arisen. Her
Majesty's late Government were for a ong time under
the false impression that the vessel had been captured
in Neapolitan waters ; but at length they became ac-
quainted with the real truth, namely, that the vessel
had been captured on the high seas. On the 24th
of December they consulted the law officers of the
crown, and they did so again on two other subsequent
occa'ions before the end of February. They thus con-
sulted the law officers three times, and those officers
declared it to be their opinion that the capture had been
a legal one. Under these circum-tances it appeared as it
her Majesty's Government did not intend to dispute the
legality of the seizure • but it has been stated by the
noble viscount (Lprd ialmerston) in another place that
her Majesty's late Government had not made up t'zeir
minds upon the point. Ot course I cannot answer for
that ; and I wish the house distinctly to understand that
it is only from this point that our responsibility begin.
(Hear.) Some new facts have come outshine thelaw officers
delivered their opinion, and some new papers have been
produced which we did not find in the Foreign-office.
Looking at the great interest which the emu, naturally
excites in this country, and remembering that upon
its
decision, one way or the other, the protracted sufferings
and imprisonment of our countrymen must depend, those
papers and circumstances will, I think, justify us iu
adopting the measure which we have determined to take,
namely, to refer tee case once more to the present law
advisers of the crown, and to lay the papers before your
lordships and the other house of Parliament. Those
papers are very voluminous, and they cannot be col-
Leted or arranged in a short time ; but I will take care
that no time is lost ; and I am informed that the late
prime minister has expressed his willingness that the
papers should be produced. (Hear, hear.) With re-
gard to the opinion that my noble. and learned friend
has expressed upon the legality of the Cagliaree seizure,
I have only to ray that it is not in accordance with the
opinion of the law offieers, as at present given. Her
Majesty's Government are as deeply interested in the
case and feel as much sympathy for the sufferings of
these two poor engineers as any one can no, and they
will not lase ii moment in prosecuting any measures that
may be taken for their benefit, or that may tend to alle-
viate the cruelty of their confinement. (Hear, benr.)
Lord WENSLEYDALE suggested that the Govern-
ment should seek the opinion of a still higher authority
than the law officers, namely, the Judicial Committee of
the Privy Council which comprised many distinguished
persons who were learned in the law of nations.
Lord LYNDHURSr must not be understood as hav-
ing given any opinion whatever upon this question. He
bad only referred to the law as stated by the noble vis-
count at the head of the late Government, and he had
thought it right to call their lordshipa' attention to this
point because the Neapolitan Government had lately
published a document in which they made the case per-
fectly clear, for they stated that the vessel had been
captured byforce, and captured out of Neapolitan waters;
and if the law as stated by the noble lord was correct,
we were entitled to insist on the liberation of our country-
men. (Hear, hear.)
Earl GRANVILLE thought the course pursued by
the noble and learned lord in bringing forward a subject
of this importance without notice was somewhat incon-
venient. (Hear, hear,) He wou'd refrain on the present
occasion from going into the details of the case, further
than to say that the statement of the noble earl opposite
was perfectly correct, except that he believed the original
destination of the Cagliari was Tunir, and not Naples.
[Lord Malmesbory assented.]—An application for the
restitution of the Cagliari had been made by the govern-
ment of Sardinia, and it was the answer of the Neapoli-
tan government to that application which made an open-
ing fer further steps to be taken. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY agreed with the noble earl as to
the inconvenience of bringing up the subject withotit
notice, for he bad been taken quite as much by surprise
as the noble earl. He (Lord Derby) had only to say
that no such document as the answer given by the go-
vernment of Naples to that of Sardinia had been received
by the Foreign-office. Nothing in fact had been received
but a statement from our minister at Turin that the
government d Naples had refused to surrender the
Cagliari to Sardinia. He (the noble earl) did not believe
there was any precedent for referring any matter to the
judicial committee which did not come before it on ap-
peal, The ordinary course was to refer questions of this
kind to the law officers, who included the Queen's Ad-
vocate.
Lord WENSLEYDALE was satisfied that more
i than one instance could be found in which her Majesty
bad sought the advice of the judicial commit,ee. lie
might refer to a question which bad been submitted to it
last year with respect to the appointment of Canadian

bishops.
Lord REDESDALE thought they ought to consider
how this country would have acted under similar circum-
stances ; because nations as well as individuals ought to
"du unto others as they would they should do unto
them." If a vessel were to land a number of persons un
our coast ; if these persons broke into a prison, let out
the convicts, and then joined with them in making an
insurrection, it was not probable that we should quietly
submit t o such au insult. (Rear.) He thought, there-
fore, that the Neapolitan government was justified, at
least up to a certain point, in what they had done.
Whether they had gone beyond that point was a matter
that remained to be proved ; bet he thought they had
been very unjustly blamed for sexing the Cagliari.
Earl GRBY cautioned their lordships agaiust express•
ins any preaiature opinions upon the case, or expressing
any opinion at all, until they had thoroughly ex swined
the papers. He thought there was much value in the
suggestion of his noble friend as to taking the opinion
of the Judicial Committee. The steps to be taken
ought to be carefully considered ; and it did not appear
to him that it would be very satisfactory in a case in
which•insportant national rights might be waived, to pro•
coed upon the mere opinion of the law officers. (Rear,
hear) He trusted that the papers to be laid before their
• lordships would include not merely the communications
which had passed between her Majesty's Ministers and
the Neapolitan authorities, but also any communications
which might have taken place with Sardinia ; so that it
might be seen how tar the British Government bad or
had not given support to the Government of Sardinia.
The Earl of DERBY said that the papers would in-
clude every document on the subject. (Hear, hear)
Lord BROUGHAM could answer for the the Jutentiods
ni
of those by whom the bill for constituting
-
cial Committee had been passed. No doubt ittewea.s
but
tended to give the fullest scope to the
.n"dmeicVing what
very great discretion ought to be used
questions should be referred to it, becat:psoenitawsausb
joebcvtiothues
that after it had expressed an opinion n
same subject might come before it judicially. (Hear.)
Lord ORAN WORTH entirely agreed with the noble
and learned lord as to the difficulty there would be in ap-
plying to the Judicial Committee. Besides, they could
not after all obtain a
satisfactory opinion from it, be-
cause the question would not be argued by adverse parties.
(Hear, hear.) When the question relating to the ap-
pointment of a Canada bishop came before it, the Crown
I was represented by the Attorney-General, and a legal
gentleman aupeared for the colonial legislature ; but that
was felt to 1;e after all a mere makeshift, and not at all