The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-11 00:00:00

items of accommodation which were included in the esti-
mate of the architects ? With regard to the statement of
his Royal Highness the Commander in-Chief about the
barracks of this country, every word of that statement
he believed to be true and incapable of contradiction.
His Royal Highness stated that the Horse Guards was
net accountable for the state of the barracks ; that he
was aware many things were required for the comfort
and accommodation and health of the soldier, but that
he did not hold the purse strings of the nation, and that
any representations made by him were met by the reply
that no funds were available. Referring to the speech of
Lard Paninure, in answer to the Royal Duke, in which
the noble lord spoke of the advantages the soldiers en-
joyed he (Col. North) held that though the soldier had
perhaps no legal right to a pension, it had always been
understood that after 21 years' service the pension would
be given as a matter of course, and he did not believe
that any Secretary of State would venture to rtfuse it.
Then as to the rations, though they might be supplied at
less than the market price in this country, in many of the
colonies the men were charged considerably more than
the price paid by Government for the food. The state .f
Portman-street barracks was disgraceful ; and with re-
gard to the barracks of the Sappers and Miners at Chat-
ham, which Lord Panmure referred to, was it fit that the
barrack accommodation for that or any othercorps should
be so deficient that one set of men had to turn into the
beds from which another set turned out ? The hon. and
gallant gentleman urged that the mode in which thebar-
rack repairs were performed was most faulty. He also
referred to the report of the Sanitary Commie.-ion, in order
to show that it was not the fault of the military authori-
ties that the barracks were not more healthy, as every de-
partment had made every requisition for that purpose. If
the correspondence on the subject, which had been pro-
mised by the Secretary for War, did not show this, he
should move f,n• further information.

General PEEL explained that the correspondence
moved for by the boo. and gallant member for &Amin
would not give a fair and full account of the circum-
stancJs connected with the various alterations which had
been made in barracks. He agreed that plenty of re-
quisitions had been sent in for this object, but where
there was no vote of the house the answer was always
the same—that there was no money.
Sir J. RAMSDEN admitted that the Horse Guards
were not to blame for the shortcoming in barrack accom-
modation, but he also contended that Lord Panmure
was not to blame, as he had immediately on coming into
office, appointed a committee to inquire into the state of
barrack accommodati in, and since then there had been
great improvement. Neither was this house to biams,
for in 1855, 1850, and 1857 not less than 1,500,0001.
had been spent on barracks by the house. The real
truth was, that in long rars of economy the barracks
ha i fallen into such a state of neglect that it would take
year. to do anything effectual with them.
Colonel NORTH —Wuo is to blame ?
Sir J. lIA.MSDEN—The economy of previous
year;'. •

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that Col. North had
made a most unfoueded charge against the house, f
between 1854 and 1858 not less than 3,134 0431. had
been spent on barracks, besides 700,000/. for huts. The
repairs cost 300,0001. a year, and in one year the house
voted 40,0001. for pl..ns of improvements in barracks.
He found that 400,0001. had been voted for Alder.shott,
which had been ex_eieded by 13,000/. This year 88,000/.
was asked for, and a further sum of 20,0001. would be
required, making 531,720/. wl:ech would be required.
But would that complete ihe work, the total sum esti-
mated fOr which was 400,000/ ? There must be some
bad management in laying out these enormous sums.
Sir H. VERNEYwouId like to know who was re-
sponsible for the position of the barracks at Aldershott.
Taey were placed in such a psition that a hospital could
not be erected unless more land was bought.
Colonel B. KNOX had already protested against the
infamous state of the tarracks, especially those in Pert-
man-street. He must remark that tenders had been
a,ke i from architects for plans for barracks, which had
been sent in, and were very creditable petfortnances
Were those persons who sent in the plans to he employed
in building barracks ? He Lared not, and if so it would
be a great fraud on them if the Royal Engineers took
advantage of their plans. He di-approved of the en-
trusting to engineer offi,!ers the of barracks,
and he regretted that the hoe. and gallant member for
Chatham was not present ; but he wished to say he
ttAght great blame attached to that hon. and gallant
gentleman, who bad been instructed to lay out barracks
at Aldershott, and he wanted to know why the barracks
were opened on the confines of the estate. They were
on one side of the road, and the village on the other had
gas, while there was none in the camp. The expenditure
at Aldershott had been very great at a time when
barracks were so much wanted elsewhere. It was to
have been a temporary camp, but it had since been built
up with huts, which were going to pieces. He h.,pad
that something would be done to get the troops in LAI•
don better barracks.

Colonel BOLDERO agreed that the old barracks were
had and uninhabitable, but what he was astonished
at wa; that the new works should be carried on on a
had plan. There had been a reckless expenditure on
Aldershott, which was to hare been a common encamp-
ment for troops, but which had been changed into a per-
mament camp, composed of huts, which were already
rotten, and no a permanent barracks were being guilt.
He wished to know how it was that when there was such
a large ❑umber of men at Aldershott they were not
employed i❑ making the road and draips. The expen-
diture for the present year under these heads would be
550,0001., to which iou,t be added 100,0001. for huts.
As regarded Netley Abbey Hospital, Surwton Gibson
had stated that the si-.e was quite unsuitable for such a
boil ,ing. He was told that at low water the foundation
was on a level wish the sta.

Lord EBRINGTON said, though he bad no wish to
anticipate the motion of which he had given n,,tice
the following day, with rga'd to the rafirtal;ty cf the
army, be must make one or two remarks having a bear-
ing on that subjec:. The teal question was whether,
having f .oled a good deal of money away, at Allershott
and elsewhere, they were not bound to continue their
expenditure till the soldier was lodged in a manner
which would give him as good a chance of life as was
possessed by the community generally. Portman Bar-
ram:6 were, as had been stated, very bad, but they were
far from being the worst barracks that he had seen.
The Wo dwichbarracks were in such a dilapidated con-
dition that the gAileries a ong which the soldiers walked
had to be shored up to prevent accidents and loss of
life; and in the very centre of the bullring, and under-
neath the soldiers' dormitorie=, were laboratories and

other places which were enough to breed a pestilence ;
wlii!e in one part of the barracks there still remained
the old and justly condemned arranenient of a double
tier of beds. It would be impossible to fetch up the
arrears cf accommodation fog :oldkrs without a con-
siderable oufliy, and in a mere economical point of view
it was desirable tat the exis:mg defects should be re-
moved.

Mr. TITE ?aid a few years ago architects were in-
vited to send in plans for barracks, and a promise was
given that the successful competitors should be em-
ployed, the premiums being made very small on that
account ; and the architects who happened to be suc-
cessful new complained, and he thought justly, that
the promise made had not been fulfilled. He had
been in communication on the subject with the Secre-
tary at War, who had promised to give the subject his
best consideration. The great evil hitherto had been that
barracks had been erected without any definite plan. He
could not but think that architects who were accustomed
to erect civil buildings were the most suitable persons to
erect barracks. As regarded Netley Hospital, for which
a 'vote sf 73,0001. was asked, he trusted that the hon.
and gallant general would postpone it till after the re-
port of the crietnission had been laid before the house,
together with the report of the medical officers.
Gen. PEEL paid of course if the architects alluded to
by the hon. genVenaan were promised employment they
had a just ground of complaint. Their plans, however,
did not seem at all economical. The estimate for infantry
barracks was 1401. p,r bead, for cavalry barracks 3001.
per head, and for artillery 3301. per head, whereas the
c st actually incurred at Aldershot was 451. for the in-
fantry, 1501. for the cavalry, and 1571. for the artillery.
He thought that, although Aldershot had been so much
abused, the barracks there were, on the whole, very
good. The only fault which he had to find was that they
were situated at the extremity of the property. With
respect to the remarks of the noble lord (Ebrington) he
thought his wisest course was to deal with matters as he
found them. It was of no use to talk about the money
which had been spent in vain ; what the Government
wuuld do was to endeavour as far as possible to apply a
remedy to existing evil,.
Mr. S. HERBERT agreed with the hon. and gallant
general that the point now was to endeavour to net
right whatever was wrong in the barracks. In consider-
ing the amount of money which had been spent they
shouid take into account the enormous size of barracks.
A barrack was, in fact, a town. There was a larger
population in Wellmgtotabarracks than was to be found
in c,r,ain towns which were represented in that house.
(Laughter,) I bat-mike there must be a prison, read-
ing-room,, and suitable residences far the officers ; in
fact a barrack was a complete town. Lord Panmure
had attributed to him the statement that the great mor-
tality among the Guards was the consequence of their
being over-crowded. He did not say they were over-
crowded: he abstained from assigning any r. ason for the
morality among them. Hisl,r,isbip also remarked that
there were fewer admissions into the hospital of Portman-
barracks than into the'hospital ~f almost any other bar-
rack. If he examined he would find that cases of fever
and other serious complaints were very numerous in the
Portman-barracks, and hence it was that they were re-
presented a‘ so unhealthy. He had the greatest confi-
dence that in the hands of the hon. and gallant gentle
man this question t f barrack accommodatien would be
dealt with in a satisfactory manner. As regarded Netley
Hospital, he was still of the opinion he had expressed,
that the site was a most unfortunate one ; and as to the
aledinal Board, to whom Lord Panmure referred, all he
could say was that they appeared, like many civil boards,
to have paid very little attention to the construction of
ho-pitais.
General PEEL said that as a contracthad been entered
into the vote could not be postponed.
Mr. TITE observed that although a contract had been
entered into, there would be no chlEculty in stopping or
postponing the works.
After a few words from Sir 11. VERNEY,
General PEEL said be bad no objection to take a por-
tion of the vote and postpone the remainder. (Hear.)
Major WORTLEY proposed that the sum of 88,000/.
for the Aldershot barracks be struck out of the vote.
After a few remarks from Colonel Gilpin and Sir J.
Ramsdell,
Captain ANNESLEY said that a more unfit place for
soldiers could not be found than Portman barracks, and
he wideed to know whether they were likely to be done
away with ?
General PEEL said that nothing could be determined
upon until after the report had been received.
The amendment of Major Wortley was then put and