The Sun.
London, England, 1803-07-15 00:00:00

D,AOt LAW RI. NC t tnade a few observations on
he Clause.

IAI.I)EIZ(AL PA RLIAMEN

lIOLTSE OF PEERS, ,

TIjU!t'DAY, JULY I+.

Tl 7 BiliS.Upo:l tnc Tatjle ver, liinvarilvd in tlicir aeveral

SiagCS.
ill the Committee on the Lower clergy Provision
The Earl of So r f observed, that he should take the
opportunity of the thod reading, to ,Hike Some observations
respecting the principle of the
• Elie rill vas afterwards repOrted, and Ordered to be read a,
third time to-inorrow.:
A Petition was pr.:.:;:z.nted an behalf of certain Metchants,
1(:c.. of ,Itristol, again,st•tho Bristol Port Bill, and praying to
h iie:ird-.hy their Countiel on the second r::-.iding against the
saute, which was ordeiedaec:ordingly,. .•
Mr. ALoit AsN unit and others, brought ulna number of Bills
from the Common.*; . arnowe, thenuOtitzouei*eievtbc Irish
Malt Duty Portugril Wine I.loutrulg.,l3ill, and the
New Vomit (Jame Bill, winc:t. were sevaally lead a first,

tune.
The further consideration of the case, LOIHIAN V. thri.,l
OE it SON, Was, onthe :.16tion of the Lox D CltA,Ncebbox,
postpan m 4,1 until to-orrow, on account or the absence tit the,
ludgesJiletained in consequence ut some.eXtritordinary bust,
bess iii The Courts below), whose assistance was necessary on
the occasion,
On the Question for the second reading of the Bristol Port
Bill, ,Counsel -were called in pursuant to an older di: their
Lordships.
Mr. gerjemit 11E4 woo re attendcd'Oti the part of certain
Petitioners•• ;Against the orineiple of the'Bill. He addressed
the House at cousiAlcratile length uon the subject, and in
thuxourse aid contended,s argument tharthe.propose.d plan
would be injurious instead of being serviceable to the. Port of.
lltistol ; that it would-tendan au, inconceivable degree -to in.
crease the opportututieS ut plunder, and, in some
,points
of view, operate untavouratily with respeCt to-the ReVenue:
Atter the Learned Serjeant had concluded, and Mr. An
in support- of the Bill, oared a few observations a-short,
conversation ensued between Ldrd SitsFr tritio and thel Los o,
CU A to; F. 1.1:0' upon the subject of the further pro'giess of.
tite Ibll. Tito twiner expressed his apprehension that it was
'Meant to dete.it Atte' hilt this Session through the niediuM of
procrasOtiatien, He, as a supporter of the Bill, was,wiliing,
in order to. obviate every unnecessary delay, to admit to
a certain extent the Allegations'of the opposing partyti he
adverted fu the very late period of the Session, tind the;pro-
priety, of selfering as little delays as possible' lu the future
progress of the II:11, . .
The Lpito CHANCELLOR admitted 'that the Bill' being
brought in at so late a period, was a mistbrtune With respect
to the House; but being once before it, it was' the ditty of
their Loidshins to pay every due attention to the discussion .
01i the me,isute. Tht priipsitiun of the Noble Ltird was
irregiLlar—thisre-Were no parties itt that House. ,All then
Lordships could bike coginzanix of in sueha way,„. was what.
was admitted by tne parties at the Bar, who may.admit so
and so to be; facts•;--what 'passed elsewhere they could not
'regularly act upon, .
.After some explanatory cohversatiori4SWltigen orie'or two of
their Lordshir.sand the Counsel, it was agreed t ;lilt evidence
should be ii,l,iuLtt at the BM' 1)11 certain points touching the
principle ut the ljitl..
Two ‘VitnesSes ware examined, Mr. Gordon, who was

principally questioned as ,to two leadingrpoints— He ststted
that the plan proposed by. the Bill, would tend incalculably
to increase opportunities •of plunderin at Bristol ; and,
farther that it would be of no advantage to tiie bonding system..
Mr. KING was examined at some length, !ds evidence
went princially to point out the disadvantage which he con-
ceived would accrue to the Port of Bristol, (in reldence
chiefly to the increased Port-charges,) were the plan carried
etreet. • • • r
At length the farther consideration of the Bill, was on the
'motion of the Duielt.or C 1.4 It X 1.41 Cis, deferred till to-morrow.
Tice' Commitment of the Woollen ' ManUfaaurers
which stood for to-morrow, was, on the suggestion (we' be.
lieve) of the Earl of RADNOR, pOst pont:A till Monday.
AdjOurned at seven o'clock, until halt past three to-jr,or-
row. . '

was no o..):..gation imposed upon the Cottriittee.to
he did, tie said, feel himself disposed, under the

i

'Mr. -ROSE observed, this clause had been treated present circumstances of the Corintiy, and consider•
as new; certainly the House had a right to discuss ing the expeditions which hod been formed by per-
'it as .ii .new clause, but it was by no means new to sons who had less than 601. a-year in land, to accede
that houses and he must be permitted to join other to the proposed Exemptions, as applying to Incomes'
IVlembers in opinion that it was not only contrary , derived from Land and the Funds under 601. t-'
to .the custom of the House to postpone the con- year, and ttyproposeea. scale between Incomes. aris-
, -
sideration of the clause, but unnecessary. .' - ' ing from these sources between 601. and 1501. e
The clause was then read, and received as part year; He certainly acquiesced in this •pro; °eel
,
of the Bill. . , . with .great- regret, because: it would. be attend.
- On the clause being read which grants an Oath . ed with greatedifficulty. But this was a moo-,
of Secrecy, to `the Collefting Officer, . men!, of all others, when it was necessary ands ..
Mr, IV/Ll3LRFOlcGE,objeeted to the principle importesei to carry with them the -opinions and
of increasing the number a Oaths, which not only feelings of the People. It was neteesary to carry
i•
reduced the' niportance of that' sacred pledge, but • with' them the •opiniona ' and , feelings. of that l'e
lessened its etkeiiht with the Public ;he wished Class- of Persons' to, whoth thOse Exeniptions.r.-.,
some other measure could be suggested equally plied, and who, if the Returns Under the Income
effsetual fur persons filling situations of trust. Ad were, ,corted, would pay about •220,0001.
' 'The Arra RN EY GENERAL observed, that he They consisted 'of that Class of the COmmodify- ..
fel( the full force of the Hon, Gentleman's remsrks, whose efforts in the public cause: were most impor.
and knew there was a greet, danger in making an rant, and most laboriously made. They consisted
‘,
Oath too common, bkit,how to find a secure substi- of the Yeomanry, whose zeal and ardent love of '-
tuts; fur it was a question of difficulty. There was their Country had been- inatm ifested in a most eri- ',
1
• certainly a great difference; in the nature of Oaths torious manner, and never in a more ardent manner
befit; administered Lira person came into a Court than at the present mrsment. He had been assured . '.,.
of Justice prepared to support the cause of his friend that an expqtat ion was entertained on their part
by a legal Onth, which would give weight to a story that they should experience the inslutgerce. of the
entirely false, it was unnecessary for hint to obseive, Legislature. L ter tli.se cireinnstance,;., to disepe -
that such an ael of wickedness was considered wit. point their hopes, to damp theirspirie, to check .
ful Perjety, and punishable by Law. But there wes their ardour, would be a .great burthen Upon his
a different species of Perjury---chat which arose mind. Having said thif; he could not but look
from a man having taken a customary oath on enter-, forward to a consider ,ble defalcation ;n die ,n-nrinrir ".
ing into.aPuhlic Office, because he has not at that of the Tax, in •corisequence -of these deduetions, '
moment any knowledge 'of the-various future cir- which would create in a !inure Ssssion of Parliemente
cumstaoces Which may-lead him into the commission the necessity of supplying the deficiency. lie there.
of perjury, consequently' an oath of office was not . fore hoped that no Gentlemen, would corsair in these . .
.an ofFenceesithaemagnitude., which the former must Exemptions, unless they had male up their mind. ,
„1'
ever be in the eye of the Law, and the 'lliad of the to till. up, in a futUre Session of Varliatnesst, the . 1
Philosopher, • chasm in the Revenue which Would beethos created.'A
Dcr4or LAWRENCE disapproved of the increase He begged pard:,n for entering into this subjedt
of oaths,' but he thought it necessary, because they were now,::
. - A share
.conversation ensued,, between Mr. H. coming to the Cleoses elludee" to. He should noreeri:
13s2o.were, 'Mr. Wtemeefoesse, Mr. WINDHAM, propose to leave out those Clau ',.,c,,, with a vi,:w oti,
kid Lord, liesw )(use u eye upon the propriety of in- proposing others, which he could not do before toe
trodUcing (Lobs in eases of this kind ; after which morrow,.es ill, would require great labour and Lillie ~,
'the Clause hay irts.been agreed to, S gence to prepare theme - 1
The CII Antl2llP-of Ihe E XC: IIE QV E IN! rose Mr. PITT said, that. he had heard with ineze ee
for the purpost Of itikitise Some obset valions, which ptessible satisfaCtion what had been uttered bytlo'.e'
he hoped would save sole "of 'the time of the Como- Right Honourable Gentleman' who had just spokefe eel
mittee. He heel maturely` considered the obsessea_ because it relievedd-hiM from the necessity of ad..'
..,,'4
tions which were thrown noi last night froin. diffe- dressingstheCommittee on that part of the subjea ee
rent quarters oir'ein the-Subjed of. Exenietioos, iota which the Blight Hon. Gentleman had Just stated? ;!,sr.'
he still'retained the' opinion lie then expressed, that and till's retrioved from his own mind a 'very heti!). , '.:Ss.'
'none of the imputations of brertefi'ut faith which had pressure, 'lnd .which 'would have impelled him. to, :;.
last night hecn thrown out could possibly attach .to enter agein'uptirethe subjeCi in a general view, and -..-:-.1
ttis Bill, for allowing certain -exemptions to per. to renew.thoee. topicS 'which-he had brought hefove ''.,l
"sons possessing Incomes: derived liens Teade, which the Committee' on a former occetsion; but these oh'1; '*,.;
were not extended to persons deriving similar In- jedionS hod, been oevieted by the acquiescence
comes frotnehe Funds or from Land. It was unne. The-Right'Hon. Gsntleman irt the principle he legl.,
cessary for ltim to repeat the argurnetits he had submitted. As to the idea of raising.. WO ,ei
urged last nighi against the pr'opr'iety, _upon the . supply withips the year, ref which the nre'e'it
,)
pritlciple of the Bill, of extending those Exemptions att owe was.ene ofthe 'nest imporeint tnesnse that '
to other Classes of Income. He wished the Cum. teas a principle the prop cots of which A'''' n" ass's" .1
inittee to advert to the pfinciple.of this Bill, which disputed, it.:d that a great prier of that should be ac.
.. 1
was this': It was Ooposed to charge with the Tax cotnplislccd by a direct taxon 1,c,,i11e, hi.lalsn been' !
.41 Income arising from Capital, - It was proposed already rec.,gnited bY the • w m m
isdo ;,f P.,rliaent ; ...,,
,ta make
.a distitiaioti between 'nese.= arising Merely
from, Capital, and Income arising from C
, ap,ta a c es. ,
e • ,
tweed with kotbour mid Skill. In' the ease where „ .
Income was derived from Capital and Labour,plots was endtaieouree to be accomytidlcki, h 0 nisei
~
, 1 1 bil !it)ievealtillzretr, ,ovilyieol.,%el.leaiilllabdyaprheticlehodichc,eitir;7o4i3.:.
was right, in his opinion, to grant the indulgence which' the Right Hon. Gentleman 110 4.1v..,."'. 'll7-
„which had been proposed, because in those strait: . broil
the assurances 01 toe elteretteite
Incomes it :might be considered as; the-wages of .""d*
_ otpltlittet., oi'biinging t )1:w.41d. 'is herr- yes migbile
removed by
bodily labour, but when you. arrived At a -certain difficulties in this inee,nre, het the fundamental prto-
exissession without pedantry) the' labour of the -
higher point of Income, then (if he. might use the 'cipk :for which he had tatentred, althia!kh h:t4 ''..11-
indeeti there aiwicys. wyuld be, consider.l . :..
person' became as it were evanescent, "and the
Capital might fairly be charged. .'. way to the cloviaiorr9t the
,further recommendation to thiS measure There as Way apparent bYs": ~,,„
gui4ttnerSeittit:
hhaxte
rtii,outi.e,biete:l convincing when they
,v.p.er_
,was this -Right Hon. Geettletnan,
the former Income- lag no petson with an Income wes slot anxious to'go over stir Controversy uplal
of less than' 1501. ayear that as in ' he 'tad just nosy said,and therefore Mr. PIIT sato, ete
was charged with more upon that salijeiet lit was enough fur hire nowiht
than 5 per cent, so accerding to -the provision% of the :. present course was taken by the Right Hon',,
„}his hills no person would pay more fur a similar Gentleman: upon* this branch of ' the subject, and !''
'lncome.There was an exception to the general difference Of Opinibn being removed, he had no Wish
principlc,"and one that was adverted to last night ; than
ro say more now. on the stehjeet of Exemption,
he meant that' sort of IncOine'which did not arise ►, to add, that he .had no doubt- the Right Bjn. Gen•
from bodily Wee's, but which Still required great
,tleman would alter rhe'Schedule, and make it cone
exertion, he meant the Incomes arising froth' pro. •
formable to the principle he had just stated.
lessionis. 'Of all the Cil/;C3. 'of' hardship tinder this • Dr. LAWRENCE approved highly of the alter-
1,
a. ,x, ho.tlititight its application .to ,professions was 'ation just ' stated by his Right Hon. 'Friend, the i'
the most eseyere ;:ltht,•:Oill it was not the policy of
,Ceteotc.t4LOß, of,the Exc it it:ll.'6 R,
_who had aClei
Parliament 4,t iiiitt,tituoai the former Income. Tax, most wisely in spewing this tavour to. so mitered .
~.
nor would it e,ttOped now be the policy of Par- a part of the gennine strength of thieCeuntry as thee ..,'•4
'lament, ;to exempt. Incomes atising • froM such Yeomanry, and thbse " bold Peasantry, their Coun'. 1
'source's.. .Capital was not wholly excluded, from try's pride," immediately 'connected with them/ .',l
such species of Income, because there was a consi. from this wise policy, he aotieipated the most jig` :..:.
Potable deal' of capital laid out. in acquiring the ' :mil advantages to. the Stites e
educatiOn and attainments necessary to quality a The Committee' then proceeded on a cor.veriati°"
person for a leerned profession. He therefore could upon the subjeet of exemption' to Clergynien in
tscer;
yti
no.t •bee consider it as a hardship ,00 those, per- lain situations of li-erdshipe. which was throw' ('''
suns that they were not exempted; All persons en- ' rather for discussion at a future stage by 11r.11,0;v ;
gaged in trade could carry it on generally by means in the course of which Loot fleveittsetsiCk itAl .'
of representatives, but this was not thef cast-with his opinion' upon the general principle that the evil
them e they could not employ a substitute.. He, of this-as well as the last Income bill, arose chiefly
seen. qossed this ease to
,shew how hopeless it wee horn the admission' of Exemptions at all ; it wquid, ii.
in64Sei of this magnitude to endeavour to adhere, I- lie better to takt a 11'10dt:rate per Centege upon all se
without- any
.vatietion, to the principle of ptric4 1 ancinilse,- than by- felting a good deal 'frtain some ande
equality, in 'TaXation. He also statedlest night, exempting others, on supposed or teal hardships 1"
that (rem the, peculiar' strudore sand mechanism of the situations of certain chteset.of pet Son,, becau'e
• thitegill,that the adopting the proposed exemptions .he was fully convinced ,it would .be impritaicable 10
would tend to prodoce that which ,et was desirable draw the line so as to come to a rule that would ail'
tO avoid ae.mitch as possible, viz. the necessity of swer all Casey. ,
disclosure in, many instances. He had also stated . .. Mr. .1-ICAST lamented there were any 'ExeroP'
what he felt very forcibly, the 'difficulty .
which. tions Wlvatever, for be, thought that one 'shilling 11
would be felt in carrying this,Bill into execution, the pound
,ought ..to be imposed on every body.ll
If these Exemptions were. adopted ; and that it support theState.in the present crisis; for we I'4'
would creme great additionallabour to' the Coen- all et us ats equal interest in :its preservation.
missioeers, -it did not appear unjust to hint to Mr. KlNseelen and many other Member: Wk.°
make a distindion between Capirel employed in on this topic, ar,l the Com.nittee proceeded in rbc
Trade and Capital emeloyed in any other way which Clauses of the Bill, rti.king many Amendments.
did'n9t Yield! sffelsirAe a Fofitt but 'xiliCh_Wes riot On the fii.st eettermitt tile under Seliedille` A, re' -,
liable to/illirtstiptet land which did not require lative to tile an3de at estimating- the annual Inc`'
bodily lAlitt4t, 11-, Isfittever, the Exemptions whieh
ers pro ed last .night were - adopted, arising from Lands, tkc. a convessaticiti of WI
w
the defat- !meth took 'Mace. Messrs. Pier, SeteßOE't ;Iv' 7,7
catieri'fiornthe Revenue would be male. than ten '-ATTOItNitT GENERAL,' Nl,!NbrS. GILBS, VA144,%_,1-1,:'.!
tinlei:lhe sum which had been stated, Tilts' was 41. J ItAkr:;—Slti W: '...i..i* ,RD 'anl H. MiLomAY, 4!„,..;-'
tilitt raftist certainly weigh with the - 'ee:t Lae eroisoes art lilt HAN ttl.LO '- d C e ti )(the '''tn'"'
A vir., ::4!
consideration.
Cerrenittee, theeigh not at the expellee of Justice.--- -. CII EQU ix, were the principal Nprukr 0., Much di C.
Having..stated the principle of' the
,Bill, and feeling' r;:nc,_ .1 opinion, i'rt.l a degree of difficulty withiret-oees
thee threre was no grestrt3 for the assertion that- it sped ..o the, construction of these Chaise*, seente" 0 - •-'..
was a viOlation of Public Faith—still being satisfied preeti'. A varitty of -observation, 'were madc: uPgg,
by 1!;e repreeentations that hail been made to him, 1 ,4 :LI,
1.1; :.,I,..rent point, in the course of the discussi"n ;'t.
.!
he did feel himself disposed (thin:zit 'he was of opi-- 1 Mr': Pt ri,' hit;) iipcieared to Stave the greatc,
men that 'no principle required- it, and that there I weight with the COADMitiet. With lespeo to or'" .‘