The Sun.
London, England, 1804-02-03 00:00:00

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they claimed the right to vote, for they told the
House they were Freeholders of the County, and
they complained of the Elenion—they considered it
a grievance and they asked relief—they stated them-
selves therefore to be in a situation in which they
had a tight to vote at the Election of which they corn-
plained, and therefore he said their case came within
the sense of the Mt of Parliament, and therefore that

the Petition should be received. He then quoted the
-

case of the Eleetion for the County of Carmarthen,
which he said was precisely in point; this very ob•
jedion was taken, but it was over-ruled by the Com-
mittee, and that decision of the Committee had never
been questioned by the House.— But if that had not

been so decided, theie would have remained about

this case, at least a sufficient degree of doubt to in.

duce the House to send it to a Committee, because.,
otherwise the question would be closed, and the
party could never be heard, which would he a case

of infinite hardship and injustice—so much so, that
the Hon. Gentleman himself, who made the Motion,
would, he was confident, regret the success of his
own Motion. He asked, what the Public would
have thought of this case, if it were the case of his
Right Hon. Friend, the CHANCELLOR of the Ex..

CHEQUER, if such a Petition as.this had been pre.
sented against him, and he were to suffer it to be
received,. suffered a day to be appointed for its dis.
cussion, and then on the very day before it was to
be taken into consideration, he was to start up,
and tell the House that many of the Petitions which
11(1 been received by the House on the subieß of
Eleaions, while he was in the Chair, were impro-
perly received ; that now for the first time he must
tell the House so, and that he must insist upon the
law which prohibited the House from proceeding on
such a Petition; he apprehended that such condua in
a person conneaed•with Government, would sur..'
prize both.the House arid the Public, and yet such
was the nature of the present Motion—for these
reasons he should vote against the present Motion..
Mr. FONBLANQUE regarded the question as a
matter of great importance.---He was clearly- of
opinion the House had no power by Law to pro,.
ceed upon this Petition, because it did not state the
Petitioners to claim a right of voting at the Elec-
tion of which it complained, and that to send to 0,

Committee for decision, a question over which the
House had no power, would be to give to a Coat•
mittee an appellant jurisdiction over the detertninP
non of the House.

Mr. JARVIS thought that if this 'objeaion to
the Petition -had been started when the Petition
was presented, his opinion was, that the ohjeCtion
would have been insurmountable ; but in his rniod,
the receiving of the Petition, and making an -circlet
uppri it, waved the objection.
Mr. DALLAS thought this a case of much im'
portance and that it ought to be seriously consider.'
ed. He thought the question as it stood now, was
very different from what it would have been if the
objedion had been made when that Petition wa,s,
presented ; for if the House had rejefted it then, i`
would have been competent, and very easy for tlio
party to have presented another Petition free fry
objedion, but now that was become impossiblq
and the injustice of the case would be enormotis,'
the Petition was rejeCted now, fur there woula'airi,
no remedy left. If the reasoning of the ,:ett
Gentleman who moved this question.walLsaoll%
by the House, it would. be telling the People c'f
England that the House by overlOoking an AB:4
Parliament which tolel the House its duty, they b v
deceived a number of Petitioners, but there was no',.
no help for it, for on a sudden they had seen then
error, and all petitioners who had beeo governed pie
their decisions upon this point could not have-thclo
cases stated. He thought the House was not drisr4o
by imperious necessity to any such desperettl,
—lt might have been desirable, that the Fettle
tion had been more specifically worded ; but t,,
Aft did not think, that the of Parliament I,reoeu
ed the House from sending this Petition beforest
Committee, for which reason he should vote 30°
the Motion.
I'4l
Mr. DEVIRAL said a few words upon the sn.os,
of precedent, and observed, there was not one 0.4,1
ly like the present case.
Mr. SHERIDAN said, that the question 01
which the House was called upon to decide was °he'
of the most simple that cculd be 'stated. Upo° ti;t
words of the Aft it was impossible to raise a done;
and it was equally clear that the PetitiOn
state that which the Aft of Parliament requLtiet
It had been suggested that this was a point is the
to be decided upon in the Committee than
House, but it seemed clear to him that the 1.41',00
lature meant that this point should he decided Zst,
by the House. The Aft required two things--74' be
that the Petitioner should either stare himself ttqe to
a Candidate' or else that he should claim a rig° ra.
vote at the Eleetion ; and secondly, that afterfili,
senting his Petition he should, within fourteen oaco,e,
enter into a recognizance to prosecute the sa
And if either of these regulations were not
plied with, then the Petition was not tai# the
ceeded upon : it was therefore evident t-
hat
House must decide upon .these points. It o'3' the
possible to suggest any new argument upo,it/
subjeft ; it was, really too plain to admit of ia
'Die simple question was, whether the ter°,
that Petition did or did not comply with the ?ij
visions of the Aft of Parliathent ? Urn till 00
was impossible to entertain a doubt. It Wa,500
answer to say, that this Aft had already 'rely
violated in many instances, because that stl, (0
could be no reason why they should .contio.or4oo
aft wrong. Every body who was really of olloce
that the terms of the Petition were in Comp` vote
with the Aft of Parliament, would of course
against the motion of his Hon.. Friend; indee IhC
thought it would be better to alter the shape °' aid
motion and state it thus, " That the Petifico it
comply with the direftions of the Aft of f!ort
l ac
ment," because that would bring it to a P'isiblef
once, and he really could not conceive it Pot tot)
upon examining the Aft and the Petition, tha.to.
opinions could be entertained upon that questt.,,igift.l
Sir WILLIAM' PULTEIvEY said, he agreed thet
the Hononurable Gentleman who spoke laste'stioOf
that would be the fair way of stating the cla.rAediti
and if it were so put, he should have no d
in saying, that the Petition did substantiallY.hoplo
ply-with the Aft, arid upon that ground. M. ""

s"
- ,:, Vote agalrlSt lOC MIZII)rt. Iv ilti re.
gird to whether the Cornrniaee had a right to
discuss this point or not, he shn&d not enter into
that consideration at present, but should give his
vote upon the ground he had already stated.
M. FOX said, that in taking adeantage of the
right which he hal of replying uonn this ocoasi3nt
he should not trespass long upon the time of the '
House ; but there were some poinis upon which
. ,
he could not help saying a few words. lie'
confessed he was sorry to observe the indifference,:.
with which the real question in this case had been'
treated; The question as it appeared to him was
simply thii,e-stiA, Whether the House was or was
not bound to-ohay a positive. Aft of Parliament ?
A Right Hon. Gentleman who stoke early in the
DebatellVle..Git servreee). to whose opinion upon -f
all subj'eas, but particularly upon this, the greatest
attention -was due, had contended that the objeft
of this Bill was to bring hack the House to the old
praEtice which subsisted before the Grenville /Vl'
He could not help entertaining an opinion diredly
opposite to that of the Right Hon. Gentleman, be. •
cause if the Legislature had any such intention, it
would certainly have expressed itself in a more
clear and disti\nd manner, and indeed the intention'
of the Legislature, if it was to be collefted from
the ad itself, appeared to be diredly the reverse.
It had been said this was a question to be decided
upon by the Committee ; upon this, however, he
entertained very considerable doubts. The Leg's.-
lature appeared to have very clearly divided the
two jurisdidions they meant to establish, firsts the
lizuseevt4s to decide upon what might be. called the
pleadings of the case, and the Committee were to
determine upon the -truth of tile allegations. But
it had been urged, that a mere dash of a pen.
watlld remove all the doubts upon the subjed : This
was certainly true, that a dash of a pen might alte
every thing that was sacred among.men.
To obli-
terate- the short, but significant word " nor,"
might alter the whole meaning or an Aft of Par-
liament, but he was sure such kind of reasoning
could not seriously be relied upon. The persons
who had signed this Petition nut only did not claim
Z tight of voting, but they did not even state that
they were aggrieved. .But it had been argtiedi thkt
their applying for redress implied that they were
aggrieved; but it was to prevent these constrne-
ti,ons by-timptieation ; it was. to
take away that
6,"eretiunary power in the House, that the Aft of
.
ftiattiarrient expressly stated the allegalons which
„le Petition must necessarily contain. Suppose this
reti •
, au: steferred to a Committee, and that
the Cominittee were about to vote the Petition hi-
'vnlous and vexatious, because the Petitioners had
3)0 right to vote, and had sustained .no grievance ;
(he did not mean to. say the fad was so, he was
Only stating a possible case); would not the Peti::
tioners have a right to say, " we never stated that
'we had a right to vote—we never complained that
we were aggrieved __consequently there was no de..
eeption in our Petition." With regard to the tirtie'at
which this objedion .‘vzs made, he certainly wished it
had been made earlier, and undoubtedly if it had oc-
curred to him he would have made it sooner ; but as
to
.the argument which had been used,that because this
°bJeCtion had not been made at first, the time was
tone by, and it could not.be made at all, it was not
_rtitled to any weight. It-might be a very goad
argument to use against a patty, whose business it
immediate_rtl4,9..6takene
iuuse, when tit,
but. it. was no argument, in that
ought or
ought ht Y We!'e considering .whether they
of an At} of Parliament. comply with the provisions
Suggestions had been thrown
out during the Debaje of bringinig
pending one tf their standing oraers, for the purpose
in a Bill or of sus.
loners to be heard.
of enabling these Petii•
measures were
either of these ' Whenever
of course Proposed, they would
be ful:y considered ; but he bad no hesiti_
tion in saying now, that ether of them would be
much less objedio
,meaning of a cle "able than to construe away the
'lie would without positive Ad of Parliament.
that Howie, 'evenutti eat._ challenge any Member in
rfose of the learned pr,,lession, to!
suggest any form
than those in the words more distinft and clear
°clause alluded to. It had been .
Urged that the Aft did not point: *out any specific
for
drawnf' worde •
~,-;_i_.-..._ which the Petition was to be
sobs4ntre.„u 3.Yas. t rue it did not, butt it stated the
Itiankne'inelli)74ll.tvith-va'..s.9,ught to he stated in the l'eti-
-D ,*. Mtn ;/ I,'' that it was impossible to mis ' -(etitior,.- 77.1' this ci, • • -,
t .14 ih --, 'Ns:: did not attach upon this
. Would store- -;
°uld be
lbest, a pct.,. glad that any Gentleman
suppose the l'etit• Petition of which it cuold attach •,)
loner, hail habitants" of the C-,) Stated they were " riti-
House have received
„thianti)4l,ls)!l !lion ?‘
unty of
Middlesex, would the
said that the word'
ti t
g.it of voting, limt might be
necessarily implz
holder., neither di,aints:' did not imply a
- the word " Fret-
. there wer such a tieht because
tlisriu i. e great numbers of F 1- -' '
1 a 'fiedtee iolders who were
3mallnesby law from vot• - -
'ng, either from the
excisesr°f Customs
freehold, holdine- places in the
and a variety b
e sineereb, la 3
.411 a-vis) ' mented that 4 Noble Lord (Greie-
itc%, —as ntit
01. the L Present, because' from his lc-now.: Rouse
would haw of Eleetions he was sure the
Several ce e received great information.
the ca,„ ntletri
th ,t, and haaen had argued upon the justice of
.”, had a . u contended that in-doubtful cases
lilts were right to checideaccording toeouity• If
Meanina, an old. obscure AEI of Parliament, the
tained,ottot Which could not be accurately ascer-
it an e .uen it might be right to endeavour to give
was luitable construCtion, but in this case there
the t° doubt, unless Gentlemen were determin.
they
wouidse doubts, which he sincerely hofte4
not. With regard to whit had been
said abb....! ~
been 0,-..".(1e,' hardship of the case, that had
ozsit`,:Y..n.atliolY. -answered by the Learned Serjeant
ring, fiiii4hiurn,era,ble cases were constantly occur-
ehiii,dividuals hardshps,certainly did suffe great
but 'that was an evil inseparable from all
human
Legislation, which could only proceed upon
a general system, and meetcoud not be caated to
eet every individual case.l There was nolcul maxim in
the Law
reo.declaim.
a Tarently more harsh, or-one which miht
aimed against with more eloquence than this,
fa?'"antla Lep: non excusat, yet it was a maxim
. ' an the Law oh
no la every civilized country ; and indeed
w could subsist without it. Therefore every
-argument
.upon the hardshi
no W p of the case could have
PI ,
eq,,ht ; though if any rational mode could be

LONDON, FEBRUARY 3, 1804.

GENERAL RdCHAMBEAU, the late Commander
in Chief of the French Forces'in the ,Istand of St.
Domingo, has arrived at PortsmoutlA,itrthe Revolu-
tionaire Frigate, which has likewike brought home.
the Dispatches of Admiral Sir Tirora*M"pirt-:x-
wolt-rx, respefling the Surrender ofntbelr)vnch in
that Colony, which will of course be published in
the Gazette of to-morrow.

We are sorry to learn by our Port Letters of this
morning, that the Outward-bound West India
Fleet which sailed from Portsmouth about a month
since, have been dispersed by the late tremendous
gales. The Courageux, of 74 guns, Rear-Admiral
DAcars, returned to Plymouth on Wednesday
with about forty sail of the Convoy ; another of
the Vessels has put into Portsmouth. Several bore
away for Cork.

THIS morning two more Hamburgl Mails arriv.
ed, but as they are of a date prior to that of Sun-
day, which came to hand yesterday, they contain
nothing worthy of detail.

A SELECT Committee was yesterday appointed
in the House of Commons, to consider of the state
'of the Civil List Revenue. The objeft of this tnea-
sure, as stated by Mr. AootNoroN, Aq,Eut,the
House in complete possession of the-statez.ofithe
Civil List up to the present time.
.'t

Yesterday morning between elevelluind 'twelve
o'clock the KING rode in his Riding-house.
At twelve o'clock the QUEEN and the PRIM.
CESSES took an airing in their carriages, attended
by the Countesses Ay LESBUZY and CARDIGAN, for
about two hours.

Soon after one o'clOck HIS MAJESTY gave an
audience to Mr. ARTHUR PAGET, previous to his
going to Vienna on his Embassy.
At two o'clock His MAJESTY held a Privy Coun-
cil, which was attended by the LORI) CHARM./

N.,
Lll uußc MI • kJ r... 1 L.:IOW, I,IEI
LAND, Viscount CASTLEREAGH, Lord HOB ART,
and i\lr. YORKE. The RECORDEr. Of LONDON,
attended, and.made his Report of :tlir:.Con;ikis capi.
tAlly conviaed the two last Sessions in the Old.
Bailey. The Council did not, break. up till half.
past three.
• .
The PRINCE of WALEs!s indisposition, we are
happy to say, was very slight. On Wednesday a
small quantity of blood was taken from His Royal
Highness, _which restored him to perfea health.
Yesterday His Royal, Highness the DUKE of
CUMBERLAND arrived , at his apartments in St.
ja mes'i Palace from Winchester.
Yesterday the Earl of'Gcrt,t.ntoßti arrived in
London, from a visit to the'rfetziont. of WAI.S. at

Brighton.
Lady DEE kHuks.i,isiorepartng an elegant Pair of
Colours for the Loyal WjrCester Volunteers, which
are to be presented to her son, who is the Lieute.
nant_Colonel Commandant of that Corps.
The Duke of MONTROSE arrived on Wednesday
last from Scotland, at his house in Grosvenor_
Square.
It is stated, upon the authority of a Perscit who
lately left Paris, that it was confidently expe6ted
there that an attempt would be made upon England
before the tMI instant, but what reliance is to be
placed upon this authority, we will not attempt to
decide,

It now appears that the small squadron, with
zo Troops, which lately sailed from Toulon, is
cominanded by Admiral GANTHEAUME, hut its
destination is not known.

The following particulars have been received from
two Gentlemen who have lately arrived in thiscoun.
try from 111adrid,and who came by land from that capi.
tal to Bourdeaux. At Bourdeaux these Gentlemen
found the Irish Officers belonging to the Irish Corps
des Guides. They are 30 in number : Dr. M'NEv IN
was one of them. ARTHUR O'CoNNoR and Mr.
tNIMETT were not among them—the former is at
Paris, and the latter in some other part of France.
The Commander of the Corps is a Colonel of the
name of SHE r, who was with BONAPARTE in Egypt,
and is much in his confidence, At Bourdeaux these
Gentlemen found it impossible to obtain a dinner
in private at the Hotels, and were therefore forced
to dine at the Table d' Note. At one of these Tables
di !Jae they dinedin company with twelve of the
Irish Officers (Dr. N(l.4Nt vIN was one of them) of
the Corps des Gltidet. The,::Army under General
AUGEREAU, amounting to ws,oco men, was at that
time defiling from Bayonne and Bourdeaux to Brest.
The Officers made no' secret of its destination,
which was for Ireland. The Troops were extreme.
ly well disciplined.
The late disturbances in La Vendee are represent.
ed to have been very serious ; they must have been,
or they would hardly have been noticed with such
earnestness in the Annual Exposition of the State of
France. In this country we did not know that they
existed, at least to any alarming extent. They are
said to have been produced by the following cause :
The Western Departments of France, at least those
in which the Royalist War had raged, were exempt-
ed from the Conscript Laws for five years. The
young men of other Departments, who wished to
avoid the Conscriptions, removed into the exempt-
ed Departments ; and this praflice coming to-the
knowledge of Government, they- took off the ex-
emptions.—Hence these disturbances.
These Gentlemen add, that there is an idea en-
tertained in France of some explosion against the
Government.

New-York Papers to the 3tst of December in.
elusive, are received. They contain nothing inte..
ret,ting.

It appears that JEROME BONAPARTE is at length
married. The circumstance is mentioned in the
Nevll'l' ork Advertiser of the 31st Dec. in the fol-
lowing terms :—" At Baltimore, on Sunday even-
ing L sr, by the Rev. Bishop CAttitot, Mr-JEROME
BONAPARTE, youngest Brother to the First Consul
of the French Republic, to the agreeable Miss
ELIZABETH PATTERSON, eldest daughter of Mr.
WM. PATTERSON, of Baltimore."

:9 r:n!:i.

.......
Yesterday morning the 6:ities of London and
Westminster Light,Horse Y.olunteers were insped-
ed. in Hyde-Park, by
,colonel. JENKINSON. They
mustered very strong,Gbothimounted anci*dismount-
ed, and after a most minute inspedion, at which
Lord HARR I NGTON, General BURR AR D, Colonel
MQUARR E, and several other Officers of distinc—,
tion assisted, this pattern Regiment performed, a
variety of new mancouvres to the admiration of a
vast number of spetlators. The ground was kept
by a detachment of Dragoon Guards.
On Wednesday morning, about three o'clock, the
town of Ramsgate was alarmed by the drums of a
detachment of the Ist Surrey Militia, under the com-
mand of Capt. WM. THomsort, beating to arms. In
less than a quarter of an hour 200 of them, with
their Officers were on their parade, as well as a
detachment of the ,sth Light Dragoons. The Sea
Fencibles, and Boatmen of every description, were
on the alert, in full expedation that the French had
landed. Nor is it easy to describe the disappoint-
ment expressed by the Troops, when they fouud
that they were only called out to assist in extin-
guishing a fire that had broken out in the house of
Mr. Ramell, a tallow-chandler, whose premises,
with their contents, were totally destroyed. The
town was greatly endangered, and the exertions of
the military preserved a considerable part of it
from being involved in the conflagration.
On the 23d of last month, a magnificent Coffee-
house, called Borfenhalle, was opened at Hambu;gh,
which has been erected for the meeting of Merchants
and other persons of. distinclion. The opening of
it was celebrated in ispeech byMr. HOSTRUP, well
known in London ; and by a.Clincert under the di-
ration of DtrssEc and ROM B EtRG. Upwards of Soo
of the subscribers to this undertaking were present
on the occasion. The expence of the building
amounted to 400,000 marks ; and during the week
it was publicly shown, 7000 marks were collected
from its visitors, and were applied to the relief of
the poor. It is situated near the Exchange, and
unites every agreeable circumstance and accommo-
dation. It contains Concet t-rooms, and a Literary
Cabinet, where all the most popular Newspapers
art to be found.

PLYMOUTH, FEB. t.—The Col , of
guns, Rear-Admiral J. R. DACIES, whir about
forty sail of the criatward.bound West-India Fleet
under convoy, which sailed from Portsmouth abotit
ii Month since, returned here this morning, hay.
ing been prevented from proceeding on the voyage
Hy the tremendous gales of wind they have experi.
.eneed at sea.' On the 213th January, seventy-eight
Sail were in company, and on the 29,h, only forty-
three Sail ; the remainder bore away for Cork. The
following are part of tilt-. Ships arrived here, viz.
Tlic Matthew, Flora, Sir Charles Hamilton, Jonah; Juno,
To'loch Castle, folios Cmsar, an:., Francis and Eliza,
Lady Arabella, Alligator, Canada, Anwlbella, and Reward.

Sailed the Niobe Frigate* and Seagull Sloop of

War, on a:crUize.
A few days since the Boats of the Golia h and
Defence Men of War, were sent to cut out an
English Merchant Ship that had been captured by
the Enemy, from under the Batteries near Rochelle,
which was effeeted, but unfortunately with the loss
of Lieut. KENT, and another Officer of the Marines,
and some of the Biats' Crews wounded.

Arrived the American Ship. Ohio, Capt. HALL,
from New-York, with tobacco, for orders.

PORTSMOUTH, FEB. 2.—AI-rived this day HiA
Majesty's Ship Rewlutionaire, Capt. LOCK, front
Jamaica, having the Dispatches from Sir THOMAS
DUCKWOKTH, and Gen. ROC HAMS EAU, on board.

Also arrived the Bon Citoyen Sloop of War, from
the West Indies.

Sailed His Majesty's Ship Fortunie, for the West

Indies.

The Montagu, of 74 guns, is this day gone out of
the Harbour to Spithead.
This evening put back to thl Motherbank, the
Ship Crown, which Vessel sailed the ad u't. under
Convoy of His Majesty's Ship Coffrageux, accom_
panied by a large fleet of ships, all which have ex-
perienced very bad weather, and were dispersed,
The Courageux is gone into Plymouth with about
seventeen sail of ships. The Crown has her stern