The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-15 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 15, 1858.

LINES LEASED AT FIXED RENTALS.

Leasing
Companies

Closing Prices
yester ta

Basin ail
this day

Ln.SEN.W.
Cal.don...
E.U.dtE.O
Gt.Northn
E. Count.
Caldonian.

99 - 101
101 - 103
13 - 15
138 - 140
4 - 5

Do
Gt. Westn,
V. & N. NI,
Do
Do

109 - 111

S. Eastern
Do
Peto &Co
Do

•••
13 - 14
24 - 25
98 - 100

Lai. &N. W.
do iti dld.
Midland...

100
54

24 -
97 - 99
ip
57 - 59

E. Count
Do
D 0...

L. dx N. W
Do

Gt. Nortiinl
T. Brassey
M. Mel ottil
Stk. &Dar
Do

'l3B 140
91 101

32 - 33 ,
90 - 92

1013t.Westnt:;

PREFERENCE SHARES.

Blyth and Tyne 10 p.
c.pref. (issd.at 50/.)
Brim. & Ex. 4 p. c. St.
Do. 4 per c. Shares..
Caledn. £lO 4 p. c.
Ches. 4 Ho. 5 p. c.
Do. do. 5 per cent...
Cork&Bandonsip.c.
,Dun.Perth.&Aber.J.
E. Anglian Cls. A Sh.
Do. do. Cls. BGp c

_
Do. do. Cis. C 7 p. c,
Eas. Co. Ex, sp.c No.]
Do. No. 2
Do. New 6 pr. c. St,
East Un., G. 6 p. c.
Do. 51., 10 per cent,
Do. 101. Debentr.Sh.
iDo. do. 4 per cent._
East Lancash.6 p.cts.
EALIV. York. J. sth.
Edin. & Gl. sp. c. Sh.

Ed.Prth.&Dun.4p.c
Furness, 5 p, e
Glas. & 5.W.G.5 p.c
Great Northn. 5 p.c
Do. 5 p. c. Redeem
at 10 p. c. prem
Do. 43/4 per cent

.
Do. 5 p.c., Red. at
p. c. pram.
Gt.N.ofScot.lst Pr(
Gt. S dz W. (Ireland)
Do. 4 per c. Pref. St.
Gt. W. (B. dal. Ex.spe
Do. con. red. 4i p.c.
Do. con. red. 4 p. c.
Do. irred. 4 per tent.
Do. 5 p. c, red. pref.
Do. Birm. Pref. Sh
Do. Chester Sp. c. P. S
Do. do. 5 p. c. do
Do. Birm. Qua. Stk
Do. Chesh. Qua. Sh
,Do, do. do

Do. do. do
Lan. & York. 6 pc. St
Lon. &B. G. 5 pc. No.l
Do. P., sp. e. St. No. 2
Do. New Guar. 6p. c.
Do. do. 5 p. c., N 0.4
Lon. 4 N.W., Coy. &
Nuneaton 5 F. et
Lon. & S, W. 7 per ct
late 3d Shares

Londy.dr Color. Sh.
Londy. &Ennis.
M., S.,&L. 6 p. Cent.
Do. do. do. £6

Do. do. 3k per cont.
Marypt. &Carl. 4 P.C.
Do. 44 per cent

Do. dO.

Consol. 6 p. c. St.
Do. Con. Br. Bir. 6 P.C.
Do. 4i p. c. Prof. St.
Do. L. & 11. Pref. St.
New., Aber., &c., pr.
5 p. caed. 5 p.c. pm.
Do. Perpet. 6 pr. ct.
Norf k. D el% 4 p.c. Sh.
Do. 5 p. c. Ext. 1846
Do. 5. p.c. pf , 1847
Do.Wv.V.sp. ~1847
North British

Do. 7/. Preference
N. B. Borw. 4 p. o. Pd
Do. do. do

Leeds 6 pc. No.l
Do. do. Qrs., 1843
Do. York H. &S. Pur
North Staffordshire I
Os., Wor. & Wolv. 6
p.c., Ist guar.
Do. 6 p. c. 2d guar._
Do. do. Debeutr. St.
Scot. Ccnt.New Pref.
Sc.N. E. Ab er.g.6p c.
Do. do. 7 p.c. pf. St.
Do. do.3i p.c. pf. St
'South Devon

SEDo. fixed 44 pr cent.
S. Eastern (Reading
Ann.) of 21 Os. 6d.
o. 44 per cent
Do. Fixed 4i p.a. Sh
Do. New 44 pr. cent
S. Wales Gna. 4 p. c.
Do. do. 4. p. e
.Yorksh.4 p.c.Guar
Stock. &Dar., 5 p. c
!Do, do. do.

48 - 50
95 - 97

11156 =l6

•.. -- .
6 -.6

112 - 115
107 - 110
115 - 118
113 - 116
132 - 134
79 - 81

120 - 122

112 - 114
104 - 106

64 -- C 6
10 -- Ili

51 ci
91 93
85 87
85 87
100 102
16 117
9i In 4
73 74
181 191
13. 140
138 -- 142

.80 - 185

Waterfddr Kilk. 6 pc.

121 - 123
66 - 6$

fatal SU

137 -- 139
102 -- 104
92 -- 94

"4 - 11

1166 = 16a

97 •- 99
1— i d

••• •••
223 233 J

118 - 120
104 - ]C6
101 - 103

120 - 122
125 - 130
73 - 75
10, -

221 -- 231
101 -- 103
101 -- 103

1® - 102
15 - 17
27A -28 A

••• --- •••
43 -..• 48

MINES.

10 - 11
3 - 4
60 - 70
460 -48 J
90 - 95
14i - 15,
5 -5;
14 -
1 -
6 - 7
-10 A
I 5 - 6-
19 - 20

lf - 1 i
395 -- 405

3. - 4
230 - 240

-- 1
i -- 4
80 -- 100
1 --
1 24. --
100 -- 110
210 -- 215
,280 - 29) 1

4 - 5
9 - 10
47 - 49
25 - 27

MINES.

121 j

$ - i
8 -I P
it - 24

••• ---- •••
12 - 13

42 - 94
U - 13
2
- 21
20 - 21

9i -

••• - •••
6 - 7

L-.•
31 -

1161

i
1021

be periodically trained and kept together fora sufficient
time to allow them to be properly instructed. If it was
intended to call out these regiments it was most im-
portant to consider how they were to be quartered. At
the present moment there was not a single unoc upisd
barrack in Scotland. In Berwick there was sufficient
space for a regiment, but the barracks were in each a
state that they were unfit for occupation. The billeticg
system bad been strongly objected to, and in places
where there were only two or three inns, the hardship
was undoubtedly very great. It might he said that in:
Edinburgh and Glasgow there was ample billeting room,
but he knew nothing more objectionable than the bil'et-
ing of the militia in those places. He trusted the go-
vernment would turn their attention to the points he
had mentioned, and use their utmost efforts to render
the militia an efficient body.
The Duke of CLEVELAND said it was most
important to define what was the object of the militia.
(Hear, hear.) It had been pointed out as a nucleus
for furnishing troops for the regular army. He did not
mean to say that in the event of a great increase of
troops being required, it would not be necessary to take
them from the militia, but to send down a number of
sergeants to keep the men in a state of intoxicati was
destructive of all discipline. If the militia was to be use-
ful it must be kept in an efficient state ; and he thought
it would be bitter, instead of giving them 28 days' train-
ing every year, te give them 56 days every alternate
year. With respect te the adjutants, he did not think
they bad much difficulty in providing suitable lodgings
at the rate of 261. or 301. a-year. (Hear, hear.)
Lord HARDINGE said her Majesty's Government
had determined to constitute a commission, to which
the subject would be referred. The instructions had not
yet been framed, but he believed the duties of the com-
mission would be to inquire into the establishment and
organisation of the permanent militia staff, with the
view of rendering it more efficient for military purposes,
and ascertaining whether it might not be made useful in
the way of recruiting for the line. The inspector of the
militia bad reported most favourably of the condition of
the permanent staff geherally, and it appeared that in
September last they raised upwar 's of 8,000 men of the
line. He believed the whole of the matters which had
been alluded to would come within the scope of the in-
quiry to be instituted by the commission. A portion of
the militia would be called out in the autumn, but at
present he was unable to give any precise information on
that point. With respect to the billeting system, a
committee was now sitting to inquire into that subject.
There were a considerable number of small barracks
unoccupied in Ireland, and one portion of the militia
would occupy those barracks, and the other portion
would be billeted. It was impossible to ray exactly
what amount of force could be placed in the
barracks in England. With regard to Scotland,
he was obliged to the noble duke for the suggestions
which he had thrown out, and could assure him that
they would be duly considered by the Government.
Earl GREY agreed with the noble duke on the cross
benches (the Duke of Cleveland) that the first point to
determine was the object of the militia. (Hear, hear.)
Was it to be an instrument for recruiting, or was it in-
tended to be an efficient reserve force ? Unless Govern-
ment made up their mind as to the accomplishment of
one of these objects, they might fail in both. It had been
said that the militia were not to be embodied in time of
war except to guard against invasion. Now, perhaps
there never was less danger of that than during the Rus•
sian war, and yet a large militia force was embodied, di-
rectly competing with recruiting for the line. The per-
manently embodied mlitia force consisted of 65,000 men.
The number of recruits given to the army and marines by
tke militia was only 33,000 during the war ; while there
were obtained for the army by regular recruiting 80,000
men, although every recruit had a direct bonus of 1/.
offered to him to take the militia as the road to the army.
They bad to consider whether such a system was an eco-
nomical one. The noble duke on the cross-benches bad
told them that it was a common practice for men to enrol
themselves in a regiment of militia which was not imme-
diately to be called out without the slightest intention of
coming up when it was called out ; and besides this, it
was the practice of men to enrol themselves in four or
five regiments of militia one after the other, and there
was no means of checking the practice° Up to 1856,
when the militia had been a few years in operivion,
there were no less than 39,500 men out of 193,500 struck
off the strength of regiments for desertion—that is, one
fifth of the whole number. lie was told that, if the
return was made up to the present time, the number
would be found much greater, and that you had paid
bounty to nearly 800,000 men who had been struck off
_ _

the strength of the force. But how did the recruiting
go on in the regular army, to which, in time t f war,
we could a'one trast t There was an instructive return
on the subject on the table of their lordship' house,
from which he found that when we went to war with
Rnssia the army was below the establishment voted by
28,800 men, including the Artillery, Sappers and Miners,
and colonial corps, and that the whole force we kad
available was only 151,000 men. Daring the whole war
the force was never brought up to anything like that
voted by Parliament. In 1855 the ordinary deficiency
was 45,000, and at one time it was 55,000 below the
number voted, and in 1856, at the termination of the
war, it was still 44,800 short of the proper number the
total force of the army being 183,300. So that during
the war, with all the stimulus which was put on recruit-
ing, allowing for the wear and tear of the war, we only
increased our army by 37,000, and the total force, in
cloding colonial corps, was only 188,300. Could any
one tell him why, looking at the great armed force that
we maintained during the Spanish war, and considering
the great increase in our population, in the two years of
the last war we were only able to add to our army the
contemptible ;number of 37,000 ? Tbii was mainly
owinglo the militia, which was kept up at 65,000 -met,.
These fac s required consideration, and if the proposed
commission was appointed be hoped that its inquiries
would not be confined to the organisation of the perma-
nent staff of the militia, but would be extended to the
consideration of arrangements now in force for keeping
up the militia, and for adding to the army in time of
war. He believed that if proper arrangements were
made we might keep the regular army at all times at its
proper number, and in time of war readily increase it to
meet an emergency ; while if you put the militia back
to that which ►t was intended to be, and what it ought
to be, a strictly local force, not embodied even in time of
war, composed of those classes who could not afford
permanently to leave their homes, but who would be
willing• to come out in the defence of their country, and
officered in the same manner, you would obtain a large
augmentation of the army during war. What he wished
to say was, that the question of the militia could not be
considered apart from the mode of recruiting of the re-
gular army, and he thought that the attention of the
Government ought to be turned to the question of how
you were to provide a competent reserve force on which
you could rely in case of war.

The Marqu'is of CLANRICARDE hoped the com-
mission would inquire into the state of the law as effect-
ing the militia in Ireland, where the law differed from
that of England. He also hoped that sufficient barrack
accommodation would be provided, e-pecially, in the
sleuth of Ireland. This was most important, in the event
1-f any sudden outbreak of hostilities. (Hear.) Tht-re
was money laid out to a very considerable extent in order
to erect new barracks, because the old barracks had been
condemned by every inspector-general for the last 20
years. (Laughter.) Whenever they might have the mis-
fortune to be coccerned in any serious European war, it
would be necessary to have a large militia force in the
south and west of Ireland. He merely threw out those
suggestions, and he hoped they would be deemed de-
serving of the consideration of the commission.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE said that after all that
their lordships bad heard that evening, he thought it
was evident that the best thing to be done was to have
a commission of inquiry. Various questions had been
proposed to the house, and several valuable suggestions
made in the course of the discussion. Ho was, he be•
lieved, justified in saying that the inquiry proposed"was
to be a full and ample one ; and that being the case, and
it being intended that the inquiry by the commission
should go to the arrangements and organisation of the
militia, past and future, he did not propose now to trou-
ble their lordships with any lengthened observations on
the subject, especially as he had no doubt that if he was
called on to do so he should be obliged to detain their
lordships a considerable time while he dealt with the
various questions which bad been raised. There were
only one or two subjec•s which he thought it essential
that he should notice. The noble duke on the cross benches
(Cleveland) very naturally thought that the militia regi-
ments were placed in an inconvenient position when they
were called on to volunteer for the army. He (the Duke
of Cambridge) could fully enter into the feelings of com-
manding officers of militia regiments on that subject, and
it was with the view of meeting their objections that the
late Government gave orders that no officers of the line
should be sentdo ten to militia regiments until the men who
had volunteered were made over to the line. Be believed
that those directions were adhered to, and that at the
last volunteering not so much inconvenience was ex-
perienced by the commanding officers of the militia as
before. He did not quite concur with the noble-duke
that it was not desirable that the militia should furnish
volunteers for the army. The noble duke and the noble
earl opp isite asked what was the object of the militia.
He thought it might be made useful for both the objects
to which it had been turned. By good regulation he
believed that militia regiments might be kept complete
for the purposes of the defence of the country, and yet
afford valuable aesistaece in recruiting the ranks of the
reeular army. The noble dupe had said that it was diffi-
cult to g et non-commiss oned officers from the line for the
militia. He was not aware to what period the noble
duke alluded, but if he alluded to the time when the
army was reduced and it was intended to transfer a
certain number of non-commissioned officers of the line
to the militia, it should be remembered that very shortly
afterwards there was a sudden call for troops to India,
and the transfer of non-commissioned officers had been
stopped, as it was necessary to retain as many non-coon.
missioned officers as possible for the ordinary duties of
regiments, and there a ere scarcely enough for that pur-
pose and to perform the duties of barrack yards ; and
no doubt the non commissioned officers of the line whom
it was intended to transfer to the militia were not made
over. With regard to billeting there c iuld be no two
opieions that it it were possible to put the militia into
barracks that would be the proper course ; but it could
not be done unless barrack accommodation was largely
increased, while it was to be doubted if the country
would go to the expense, and even if the country was
inclined to do so it would be years beftre they were
completed. The emergency pressed, and the question
was abet was to be done with the militia when they
were called out. Wherever there were barracks in Eng-
land, Scotland, or Ireland, they would be willingly con-
ceded by the military authorities, but there was a very
small amount of barrack accommodation vacant and very
little could be afforded to the militia. With regard to the
calling out of the militia and their embodiment, the noble
duke had referred to the embodiment of that force in
the last war. But it should be remembered ithat the
militia was embodied because there were no regular

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following private billg were read a third time and
passed : —West•end of London and Crystal Palace Rail-
way; Lancashire and Yorkshire and East Lancashire
Railway et mpanies.
The following hills were furthrr considered and ordered
to be read a third time :—Great N ifthern and Western
(of Ireland) ; Hove Improvement ; Limerick and Foynes
Railway ; Oxford, IVorcester, and Wolverhampton Rail-
way; Severn Valley Railway (Extension of Time) •
Shrewsbury and Welcbpool Railway; Waveney Valley'
Railway.

ROYAL ASSENT.
The Speaker and the members of the bou=e were
summoned to the House of Peers to hear the Royal
assent given by o,.)mrnith,ion to several. WIN. See lord,'
report.

troops left in the country, and but for the militia the loam di rooms had their full comp_ s many of iite
country would have been entirely denuded of troops. To toesiej were um er canvas, and they mere in a very
I • • --
a certain extent the same thing existed now ; there was healthy date. (Hear, Lear.)
a great ecroand for troops in India, sod a large force was
, MAIL SERVICE BETWEEN THIS COUNTRY
required for the colonies, and in order to make up the '
AND AUSTRALIA.
deficiency of force in this ccuntry, a certain portion of Mr. H. BERKELEY asked the Sccntar to the
the militia was eini,odied, and he ventured to think that Treasury whether any• apriCation had been Ymade
.bye
that arrargement was the best that could be made nnder the present cc:ntractors, for performing thee mail s.ervioe
the circumstances. He agreed with the noble earl 0
PP°- between this ceuetry and the Australian colonies, to
Bite that the question of recruiting the army and rniLtia any r obtain icizsion
.of the existing penalties, or any
ought to be considered by the commission ; but he was
modification of the s'z.3 of the vessels employed ; the
happy to say that so far as recruiting for dot:tautly wont,
ex osier of the term of the said contract ;or any other
nothing could be more satisfanory. (Hear.) Although
this was a time when labour was in den,aed, there were alteration iu the conditions thereof !
daily received large accessions to the ranks of the army, Mr. HAMILTON said the Treasury some time sines
w,re in communication with the Australian and Euro-
and if their lordships would look to the returns of the rweatant.Steam-Packet Company, in consequence of a de-
recruiting, they would be astonished at the good feeling
jeer
v.via:t(%)vaiting on them from the. Colonies. The oh-
exhibited in all parts of the country in the coming for- •
with the Rrle.ca°lrimeind the projnotionamalgamation
ward of men to join the army. (Hear, hear.) He would
3t`he lal Steam-Packet C impany, and the
not go further into the question, as this was not the Extension cifterm, of the contract, when. the coma:in-
exact time, when a commission of inquiry was about to ideation was bre
Australian and Eur'onphcan C.:inpany entercd into further
i ff, and the direction of the
be appointed, to enter into details, and he would only
caminunntation eith t e Treasury for the furtherance of
add, that he was rejoiced that her Maja,ty's Govern-
objects similer to those asked for by the other company,
went had det'rmined on taking that step.
but seeing certain reeolutionsmin,atnhe newspapersh relative
Lord LYTTLE lON said, with reference to whet had
been stated to be one of the main functions cf the militia, ,
t 0 the winding up cf that c •
gentler 'paten to state what
ithYthee had thought fit
rrraulipated tom,
the feeding cf the army, he was of opinion that
you called on celonels of militia to do what it was not in to suspend further negotiation with
human nature to do ; for as fast as they made gw-cl sal- ' Mr. DIV ETT asked the hon.
t-- s were losine taken to secure uniU diers of their men they were urged to get rid of them, steps
between this country and Austr
alia,
always renew a test like that cf Penelope's web, which was
always beginning and never ending. II:s own regiamet, .3', udder the
. Mr EIAMILToN said it was necessar
f her Mt.,. 's Government to pre,
circumstances, for or' p_sty
the Worceetershire, which was a very good one, was
1/4..
with caution. He assured the hon. gentleman her
recently embodied, and was disetnb :died again in a short 11-. let( ' Government world take steps to Retire mi.
: j,s,,y e time because it had not furnished its quota of men to the •
interrupted communication between the two countries,
regular army. It was a fundamental mistake to regard
THE CONFESSIONAL IN BELGRAVIA.
the militia force from this point of view, and not to con-
sider it as a reserve force fur the home service. With Mr. BUTLER asked the Chancellor of the Erwin-
regard to the statement that men were not got for the quer if it was the intend an of her Majesty's Government
army fast enough, the reason was to be found in the to take any, and what steps, to allay the feelings of
fact that the army were not paid enough, were not made irritation and disgust, created net only in the neigh-
comfortable enough, and had no sufficient prospect of a bourhood of St. Barnabas, Pimlico—(hear, hear)—but
throughout the breadth arid length of the land in cones-
ision f a th.ir old age. Our system stood self-con-
prov • -
eleinned by the existence of a bounty 33 a necessary (pence of the conduct of that gentleman. He also
adjunct to recruiting. Why should there be any neces- called attention to the reported sermon delivered by the
teityl Rev., Mr. Ingle yesterday at St. Barnabas Church, in
for a bounty ? There ought to be a sufficier t mili•
tary spirit in the country to bring men into the army if Btleport of the abominable practices he referred to.
there position there was made such as it ought to be. I The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
I honourabe gentleman had put a question of which he
The proper system would be that the bounty which was
now wasted should be given to the soldier at the end of i had Oven no notice, referring to a great variety of par-
his time of service instead of at the beginning. It was
Cedars, some of which he admitted only happened yes•worth consideration whether there might not be a rc- I terday. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought
serve established consisting of men who bad paned the hon, gentleman would consider, upon reflection, that
through the army, which would be &tore economical it would be more convenient to the Government, and
than the militia, but at the present moment he would more in accordance with the rules of the house, if he
were t i put his questions on the paper, when they would
not go into that question. What would be the condi-
tion of things if the whole of the militia were to be called be answered in due course. (Btar, hear.)
out it is difficult to say, for it was known that men had Mr. BUTLER said he woult repeat the question to.
enrolled themselves In several regiments at different "Joirow. (Hear.)
times, and if the whole el the militia was called out there INDIA.
would be at least 40 per cent. of the men missing from Sir E. PERRY renewed his question relative to Mr.
the different regiments. 13c Lop. d the subject would Mountstewart's despatches and the paper referred
be careful y and fully considered, aid that the Govern- t i on a former occasion by the noble lord the President
merit would not be satisfied until an effective reserve of the Beard of Control, relative to the state of Rohil-
force was established in this country. conch.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that there were Lord STANLEY said that after the question put to
him the other day by the hon. and learned gentleman
only two points among the various suggestions which
had been thrown out in the course of the discussion ;`tent the member for Davenport, he thought it right to apply
to Lord Wore noticing them he would press on the Under Secre-
Ellenborougb, to whom Lord Canning's letter
s
tary for War the advisahlity of laying on the table the was addressed, and i whose possession it was.
instructions to the commission as soon as they were As they were private communications, and as
issued. With reference to the suljsct of whether the they reached him in a private form, it would be
militia was to be considered a reserve force or as a feeder contrary to precedent and inconvenient to the Govern-
moot to lay them on the table as official documente,
to the regular army, he thought that no report of any
commission was likely to prevent the recurrence by Perhaps th© hon. and learned gentleman's object would
Government to that system on an emergency; but it be attained by reading a sentence from Lord Canning'a
might perhaps guide them to knowledge of that which letter and the enclosure. Lord Canning said that the
it was important to ascertain—namely, how the progress made in bringing in the landowners, and in
system had really operated, arid whether it had added coming to a settlement with them, was very satisfactory.
to the effective force of the army, or whether it was only —(hear, hear)—and Mr. Mountete wart's enclosure wag
an expenditure of an additional bounty, and in fact realty of a similar character, (Hear, hear.)
interfered with the recruiting of the army. The noble RELIGIOUS PROCESSION IN TUAM.
earl (Grey) had referred to the origin of the system in Sir W. VERNER asked the Attorney-General for
the last war, and the illustrious duke (Cambridge) had Ireland whether the government had received any ao-
truly said that the embodiment of the militia during the court of a proces-ion in the streets of Tuarn, which pro-
war arose out of the necessity of sending a large nuns- cession was composed of priests and others of the Church
ber of regiments of the regular army on active service, of Rome, in their ecclesiastical costume, and carrying
and which rendered the militia requisite for the purposes the Host, and whether such procession was conformable
of garrison duty. But he (the Duke of Newcastle) to law
thought that the system had been carried on too long The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said
and too far. He looked on it that at the beginning of such preces-ions would not becoeformeble to law, but the
the war the militia force was an effective means of application of the law depends on the existence of the
speedily recruiting the army. In the beginning of that fact. He had seen a report describing what had taken
war it was a question of bounty, when it was necessary place, but it did not state that any procession as that
to get 30,000 to 40,000 men, but at that time recruits described took place in the streets of Team. (Hear,
did not come in as fast as was required, and you bad to hear.) lie hoped there would not, and that the good
make soldiers of them arter they were recruited, while sense of the persons referred to would prevent thous
the militia supplied trained men. This system, however, vielating the law.
might be carried too far, and he believed it did not result ' INDIA RESOLUTIONS,
in getting men for the army as easily and speedily as The house then went into committee on the India re-
might be expected. Under our present system, in ease solutions, commencing with the sth resolution, as fa.
of war you must have regiments of tniiitia embodied to lows—" That with a view to the efficiency and indepen-
garrison the different pelt 4 and stations at home, but he dance of the council, it is expedient that it should be
believed that was the extent to which the embodiment e f partly nominated and partly elected.
the militia should be carried, at least for a short time Lord STANLEY said it became his duty to propose,
after the beginning of a war. It was, however, a mistake for the consideration of tle committee, the resolution
to maintain a militia force not for the purpose of defence just read. The house had already decided, without a
at borne, but the purpose of supplying the army with division, that the Minister for India should have the
recruits. It was a system which was enormously assistance of a council. The house undoubtedly intended
expensive, and by no means efficient. He knee, that that council should be real and not merely nominal
however, that some persons were of a different opinion, —an assistance, and not a screen and a pretence. If
and he was certain that he proposed commission would the council was to be a reality, it must possess substan-
only do a portion cf its duty it it did not inquire teal independence. (Hear, hear.) Not only FO, but it
how far this system of recruiting was to be carried, must be known to have that quality. It was a question
With regard to the question of barracks, the illus- how far it would be possible for a council formed on the
trious duke bad said that if militia regiments were principle of nomination, as proposed by Lord Palmer.-
embodied it was necessary that they should go with ton, to possess that character of independence. The
toilets, because there were at present no barracks to principle of nomination might be applied under
accommodate them, and it was peusible to erect a suiti- throe several modifications. The members of the
cient number of barracks I r the purpose. He (the Duke council might be nominated for life, or during good be-
of Neweestl: ) was anxious to say a few words on the saviour—the more common form—as proposed by Lord
subject of barracks. He could state from experience, J. Russell. They might be nominated fora lung term of
as a Secretary for War, that there was no regular sys- years, without the power of re-election, or for a compare-
tetu with regard to barracks in existence. For years Lively short term, as proposed in Lord Paluterstou's bill,
every succesive secretary fur war and commander-in- the Government having the power of nominating them
chief had gone on mien a hand to mouth system. He a second time. As to the first proposition—nomination
was desirous that some means should be adopted to re- for life—no doubt it did, to a great extent secure that in-
Inedy this, by establishing some regular system for pro- dependence which was desired. It placed the members
viding barracks in every locality where they were re- of c tuned, relative to the Government who appointed
Tailed. During the late war he bad felt great anxiety them, and all succeeding Governments, very much in the
on this subject ; but, at that time, such was the pressure position occupied by a judge on the bench. The most
upon every department connected with the adteinistre- forcible objection was that in a council of 12 or 15, under
Lion of the army, it was impossible to deal with it. That a system e f nomination for life, there would always be a
pressure no longer existed, and he hoped the attention of certain proportion who, from mental or physical infirmity
the government would be directed to the subject, with a would be incapable of performing their duties in a
view to the introduction of some settled and permanent satisfactory manner. (Hear.) It might be said that that
system. He hoped their lordships would shortly have did riot necessarily follow, and that the objection would
before them the instructions issued to the commission, apply equally to the case of the judges. But there was a
and then they would have the opportunity, if those in- materialdistinction between theduties of ajudgeand those
structions were not sufficiently extensive in their charac- of a member of the proposed council. A judge was brought
ter, of pronouncing an opinion upon them. constantly and prominently More the public eye ; he
Viscount MELVILLE complained of the utter nee- must be able to go to circuit, to sit eight or nine hourees
dequacy of the barrack accommodation in Scotland, and day for days together in caurte of justice, to give his un•
remarked that not one tenth of the money which had divided attention during that time to close argumen's
been spent upon the erection and improvement of leer- it difficult and complicated subjects, and to deliver his
reeks in this country had been expended for similar pur- judgments orally in the presence of a most vigilant,
poses there, critical, and intellectual audience, the English bar.
The conversation then dropped. Hence, if he became physically or men'ally disabled, hie
CHANCERY AMENDMENT BILL, it capacity would become the subject of public notice
This bill was read a third time and passed, and general comment. This did not apply to a member
RAJAH BROOKE, &c. of the Indian council. The business was done in private
Lord KINGSTON was proceeding to put some gees- and so long as he could attend a committee in a private
tieing which he had placed on the paper, in reference to room, look over papers, and go through the form of
Rejeb Brooke, and certain customs appointments; but transacting business, however much his capacity for la-
what he said was quite inaudible in the gallery ; and, t our might be diminished, or hie judgment impaired he
after being called to order by Lord Malmesbury, he was would be able to go through the semblance of perforating
interrupted by a motion for adjeurning the house, which the duties allotted to him, and would not himself be
was agreed to ; and conscious that the time had come when he ought to be
Their lordships adj turned at 20 minutes past 7 o'clock. replaced by a younger and abler man. The system of
life norninioion, therefore, desirable as it undoubtedly
was in some respects, would render necessary the ap-
pointmeet of a larger number of members than need
otherwise belong to it, to make allowance for two or
three who might be incapacitated, and in the next place
if the council were divided, as it ought to be into corns
ruittnes, very likely important rostsiu one or more com-
mittees !night be filled by men who were thus incapeci-
tatt d. The princiele of nomination for a long term,
without the power of re-el ction, was obviously inexpe-
dient, on acc itmt of tLo different manner in which the
rule would operate on different persons. If a man of 40
were nominated for 12 years, he would be excluded from
the performance of his duty at an age when, when for all
deliberative porpoise, his judgment was in its maturity,
and he was as fit as ever to discharge public duties. On
the other hand, if a man advanced in life were appointed
for 10 or 12 years, it was probable that he would be
incapacitate d for duty bef re the close of his term.
Under this system the difficulty of the government.
in selecting efficient men would be increased. With
regard to the third mode in which the principle of no.
ruination might be applied—teat of the treble lord the
member for Tiverton, who proposed that the members of
the council should he appointed for a short time with a
power of re-appointment—he would only say that, prate-
ticaliy, it would place the members of the council in
a position of far greater dependency than that of any
clerk employed in the public offices, for although the
miziister had the power of discharging a clerk he virtu-
ally bold his office for life it his conduct was satisfactory;
whereas the member of the council, knowing that his
tennis of office would shortly expire, and knowing also
that lee had no claim on the minister to be re-appointed
when that term expired, Le would feel it a matter of
favour and individual preference if he was re-appointed
I by the minister. Although this might have little effect
upon men of high honour and public spirit, it would still
affect such a man injuriou-ly, because, however much
la, might be inclined, from conviction to support the
policy of the minister, itwtl
o wouldexpose
wiscotruction, to the risk having h
i t irn
iin pt ou
tt heto • d risk
him of
mi
that he supported the policy
conscience far the sake of obtaining his nomination the
a the minister against his
second time. (Hear.) Moreover, men of ability and ex.
perience would not be so wilbug to accept office for ao
short a term as they would be it appointed for a longer
f they were to fall back on any one, the
term, or in a different [simmer. Of these three modes of
lint was that
tin
which, in his opinion, presented the least
inconvenience. But, Mere they coneented to accept any
one of them, the house ought fairly and deliberately to
consider whether ne ocher means were available for the
appointment of at least a portion of the council so pro-
posed. It the house were inclined to enter into the con-
eideration of such a
project, it would probably not be far.
gotten that in proposing that the principle of election be
substituted for that of nomination, they were not intro-
ducing any innovation, but building on the actual foun-
dation which they found in existence. He believed the
ii u•e would admit generally that if a perfectly satisfac-
t try constituency could be found, that was a method
which would be preferred on all bands to the method of
nomination. The difficulty was to find such a constituency.
(Hear, bear.) And here he wished to say plainly and dis-
tinctly that in proposing to the house the elective pile.
ciple he was not at all confounding that with the prin.,
(tip's' of representation. Anything in the nature of a ri•
presentation of Indian interests in this country wee
utterly impracticable. If the representative system was
to be introduced into the government of India, it must