The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-01 00:00:00

in dealing with Indian subjects we should take care that
the liabilities of this country should not be in any way in-
creased by the change we aro recommending. (Hear.) That
without any change whatever in the Government, a pos-
sible liability, very much to be deprecated with respect to
Indian finances, may be incurred on the part of the people
of England is no novelty in our debates, and is a truth
which has impressed itself on the minds of those who have
deeply considered this subject. (Hear.) But no course
that we can take with regard to this present project of
legislation can diminish a possible liability which existed
years before. (Hear.) No doubt, as has been said by the
highest authorities in this House, there is an intimate
connection between Indian and English finance, and so
long as India remains the principal dependency of this
country we must all be deeply interested in its finances,
knowing full well what are the possible consequences to
England if those finances are badly administered. What
I wish to impress upon the committee, however, is the
true and common-sense view of the question, that the
change now contemplated will not increase the possible
liability in this respect which existed before. (Hear.) As
I mentioned to the committee just now, it is iu the 14th
resolution that this point is really contained, and there
you will find the words " for continuing the charge on the
revenues of India alone" specifically introduced. (Hear.)
I do not know that I have any further observations to
make upon this resolution, because the subject of it has
been so long in our minds, has been treated of late in so
many modes, and in so many papers, that we in this House
have pretty well arrived at a conclusion upon it. There
are other resolutions as we proceed which no doubt will
lead to very great controversy and to protracted discussion.
But it appears to me that, upon the whole, this resolution
expresses the intentions of the committee in language not
justly liable to criticism. That it has no legal efficacy we
are of course all aware. But if it conveys, as I maintain
it does, in clear and precise language what is the intention
of those who propose it, and what I believe is also in the
mind of hon. members, I trust the committee will pass this
resolution, and, I hops without a division.
Mr. LA.BOUCHE RE was willing rather to consider this
resolution in its popular sense, as embodying the opinion
of the House, than to go very closely into its precise mean-
ing, which might be deferred until the whole subject was
considered in the form of a Bill. At the same time, it was
desirable not to assert anything actually contrary to the
fact. Now, he wished in no captious spirit to point out
one part of the resolution which seemed liable to this im-
putation. He referred to the words alluded to by hie right
hon. friend (Mr. Gladstone) that the transfer was ex-
pedient, " in order that the direct superintendence of the
whole empire may be placed under one executive
authori.y.' Now, there was one very large part of the
empire which was now completely out of the direct super-
intendence of the Crown at this moment as the territories
of the East India Company—he meant the whole of
that portion of British North America held under a char-
ter by the Hudson's Bay Company. (A. laugh.) If the
words he bad quoted were allowed to remain they would
assert that which was actually contrary to the fact, and,
as he believed, they could be omitted without weakening
the force of the resolution, he thought it would be desir-
able to do so.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. —I do not
mean to say it is absolutely necessary that these words
should be in the resolution. There are, probably, a groat
many words in these resolutions which might be omitted,
but I think it would be a great pity to strike these out.
The resolution would be more meagre, and would not, I
think, express our meaning so well without them. (Hear.)
I am not surpri.ed that the only exception throughout the
wide dominions of her Majesty which can be brought for-
ward in order to prove the inaccuracy of the resolutions is
the case of the Hudson's Bay Company. (" Hear," and a
laugh.) The fact is that, for the moment, I thought the
Hudson's Bay Company had been put an end to. (" Hear,"
and a laugh.) But that is the only instance which can be
adduced, and I still therefore retain my opinion that the
expression in the resolution conveys more fully and accu-
rately what I believe to be the intention of the committee
than it would do if altered in the mode suggested.
The resolution was then put and agreed to amid some
cheering.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. —The se-
cond resolution embodies the principle that there should be
one great officer of state responsible for the administrai ion
of India, and specifies his title. It defines generally the
powers and duties of that officer, who we suggest in the
resolution should be called a Secretary of State. The
Committee will, of course, decide whether they think he
should be called a President or a Secretary of State. It is
our opinion that on the whole it would be more convenient,
though it is a matter of no great moment, that the Minis-

ter who is responsible for administering the governmea of
India in England should be a Secretary of State, and we
hays attempted to express the powers and duties which
will devolve upon him in consequence of the change we
propose. The resolution is :

" That for this purpose" (referring to the first resolution)
"it is expedient to provide, that her Majesty, by one of
her Principal Secretaries of State, shall have and perform
all the powers and duties relating to the government and
revenues of India which are or may be now exercised and
performed by the East India Company, or by the Court of
Directors or Court of Proprietors of the said Company,
either alone or with the approbation of the Commissioners
for the Affairs of India."
That would concent re all the powers exercised by the Board
of Control and the Court of Directors in the principal
officer, whose style we have defined as Secretary of State,
and I hope this resolution may pass.
Mr. ROEBUCK sug;eeted the expediency of postponing
further discussion upo❑ the resolution at that hour of the
night (a quarter to 12 o'clock).
Mr. GLADSTONE was of opinion that it was an error
to constitute a new Secretary of State, and contended that
the arrangement proposed upon that point in the bill of
the noble lord the member for Tiverton was preferable
upon all the principles of constitution and analogy to that
embodied in the resolution. under the notice of the Com-

mittee. It would under those circu;;E4tances,_ he thought,
be advisable for the present to substitute some such general
words as " responsible advisers" for the words " Principal
Sec-etaries of State."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
no objection to comply with the suggestion of the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield, and should therefore move
that the Chairman report progress. He should postpone
any observaticns which he might wish to make with refer-
ence to the resolution to a future occasion, simply observ-
ing that he could not a,cree with the right bon. gentleman
the member for the University of Ox ord, so far as the
question of constitution and analogy was concerned.
The CHAILIMAN then reported progress, and the
house resumed.