The Sun.
London, England, 1858-02-13 00:00:00

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eiseeee--- _
their functions, are yet a totally irresponsible body,
h
use views and acts are seldom known to the public,and
wwhether known or unknown, whether approved or dis-
approved, unless one of the directors happens to have a
seat in this house, are out of the range of Parliamentary
discussion. A gain, as regards our interest in India, I may
state at once that the bill which we are proposing to the
house is confined entirely and solely to a change in the
administrative organisation at home, and that we do not
intend to make any alteration in the existing arrange-
ments in India. In fact, if Parliament were to adopt the
measure which we are about to propose, the only differ-
ence as far as India is concerned would be that the next
despatch would go out signed by the President and the
Council for Indian Affairs, instead of by the Court of
Directors, and that the reply would be addressed to the
President of the new Board, instead of to the chairman
of the body sitting in Leadenhall-street. There can be no
doubt that in India the name of the Sovereign of a great
empire like this must be far more respected, far more
calculated to produce moral and political impressions,
than the name of a company of merchants, however de-
serving. We have to deal with princes, some ruling in-
dependently, and some in a state of modified dependence
upon us, and with feudal chiefs proud of their position,
cherishing traditionary recollections of a wide empire,
and of great sovereigns to whom their ancestors owed
allegiance. flow can we expect such men tofeel any great
respect for a mere company of merchants! The respect
they would feel, the allegiance they would give, would be
increased tenfold if the one were given and the other
tendered to the Sovereign of a great and mighty empire.
I believe that what gives force to the Company in India
is net the fame or authority of the Company itself, but
the knowledge which the p.ople have that behind the
Companyand strengthening it is the power of the British
empire, and that, although the nominal ruler may be an
officer of a commercial nation, the real ruler is the Sove-
reign of this great country. I am therefore satisfied that
the tranerer of the Government of India to the Crown
would, as far as its effect upon the people is concerned,
the
ed
be equivalent to a large reinforcement of troops;
be most
h
impression which would be produced would most ad-
vantageous, and would consolidate and strengthen the
moral and political influence of England in those regions
of the world. What, then, is the arrangement which we
are about to propose
We wish to alter things as little
as we can consistently with the great object we have in
view. That object is to make the responsible advisers of
the Crown answerable for the government of India as
well as for that of all our other possessions beyond seas.
We wish that the affairs of India should be administered
by men responsible to Parliament for the manner in
which that country is governed. We propose, therefore,
that the functions of the Court of Directors, and of the
Coact of Proprietors, should cease; that there should be
substituted for those bodies a President, assisted by a
Council, for the affairs of India ; that that President
should be a member of the Government, and should be
the organ of the Cabinet with reference to all matters re-
lating to India ; but, as men who have distinguished
themselves in public life, and who are likely from time
to time, as changes of Administration occur, te be placed
at the head of that department, could not be supposed to
possess that detailed local knowledge which is essential
to the wise government of the country, we propose that
the President should be assisted by a council composed
of persons named by the Crown, with the condition that
they should either have been directors of the East India
Company, have served a certain period in India in a civil
or military capacity, or have resided there a certain num-
ber of years unconnected with the local administration.
We propose that that council should consist of 8 mem-
bers, that they should be appointed for 8 years, and that
two should retire by rotation every 2d year, in order
that successive administrations may be able to renew the
council from time to time by the introduction of persons
returning from India with fresh knowledge and ideas.
We think that while, on the one hand, the permanency
of a councillor for eight years will make him an in-
dependent adviser of the President, he will not, on the
other, by being appointed for life, block up the way to
the accessionlof other persons who may be more capable
of serving the country. (Hear.) Of c arm, as the
proposal is to transfer to the Government of the day full
responsibility for the management of Indian affairs, and
as the President will be the organ of the Cabinet upon
Indian matters, just as the Secretary of State for the
Colonies and the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs
are the organs of the Government in regard to the depart-
ments under their respective care, the decision of the
President must be final in all matters which may be
treated of in the Council. But if we propose that if the
councillors differ in opinion from the President they
shall have the right to record that difference, together
with their reasons, upon the minutes of the Council, so
as to be able to justify themselves afterwardsjor having
differed from the President. The full power of
the President, however, will not extend to matters
involving increased expense to the Indian revenue,
and for purposes of that sort it will be necessary
that he shall have the concurrenee of four councillors to
any proposals which he may ,have to submit. In the
temporary absence of the President a Secretary of State
will be able to act for him, and four members of the
Council will be a quorum for the transaction of busi-
ness. We propose that the Council shall have the power
of distributing among themselves the business which
comes to them, so as to allot different departments of
business to different members of extract', who will make
reports to the Council itself. We propose that the Pre-
sident shall be placed on the footing of a Secretary of
State, and that the councillors shall have a salary of
1,0001. a-year each. We propose that all powers vested
in the Court of Directors shall be transferred to this
Council, and, therefore, that all appointments which
have hitherto been made by the Court of Directors
or others, subject to the approbation of the Crown,
shall be made by the Crown direct, but that all appoint-
ments in India which have hitherto been made by local
authorities shall be continued, so that no part of the local
Indian patronage will be transferred to the Govern-
ment of this country. (Cheers.) We propose that the
President shall be able to appoint one secretary, who
shall be capable of sitting in this house. It will be con-
venient that a Cabinet Minister holding that situation
shall have the assistance of a secretary conversant with
tthe business which may come trader discussion : but we
do not propose that the councillors shall be capable of
sitting in Parliament. (Hear, bear.) We think there
would be great inconvenience in such an arrangement ;
that they would become party men I that they would
necessarily associate with one aide or the other in this
house, and that, with changes of administration, the
relations between the President and the councillors
might then become exceedingly embarrassing. (Hear.)
One point which has always attracted the attention of
those who have considered these matter', and which has
created even a very considerable constitutional difficulty,
has been the question of patronage. Many men have
said that they think the Government of India a
cumbrous and antiquated machine whioh ought to be
done away with. That was the opinion in 1833 of a
great number of those who took part in the discussion,
but it was always said, " How can we manage with the
patronage' We do not wish to increase the patronage
of the Government, and we fear that this transfer would
make that augmentation." But as I have said with
regard to local appointments, all those appointments
which have hitherto been made either by the Govercsr-
General or by other authorities in India witl continue
exactly as before to be made by them, the members of
the local council being named by the Governor-General
instead of being named hence. An arrangement was made
in 1853 by which all appointments to writerships were
given by open competition. Teat arrangement we shall
of course maintain. (Cheers.) Writerships, therefore, are
beyond the range of patronage. The appointments to
cadetships have hitherto been divided between members
of the Court of Directors and the President of the Board
of Control. What we propose is to leave the appoint-
ments to those cadetships as they havebeenhitherto. The reduction from the number
mmsboereowfhtdairectors
to the number of councillors will giro
patronage to the councillors, but the addition to tae
patronage of the President will be hardly erce Cble.
a
It must be remembered that hitherto wo havei hadpi an
enormous native army, and it does not seem nrobabie
that we shall keep up that force to the same amount.
(Hoar.) As regards the civil appointments, they will
remain matters of public competition, and as regards
appointments to cadetships, they will be made as Ihaze
stated, with, probably, the additional conditions that
the cadets shall be appointed to probation in some
military college, their final appointments to regiments
depending on the efficiency of their studies. There is
one condition which we propose to attach to this distri•
bastion of cadetships—vize that a certain proportion of
first appointments, which we cannot fix in a Bill, but
which most be left to the discretion of the Council from
I j
te t to time, shall be reserved for the sons of civil and
ary ofileers who have served in India. (Cheers.)
According to that arrangement it will be seen
of
that no addition
patronage will devolve upon the exe-
cutive Government of an account to excite constitutional
jealouy on the Part
will
iltlhe Rouse of Commons. (Hear.
The army in India )
troops, fornaing part of consist,
regular army of this country,
as heretofore, of Queen's
and local corps art
in India. With regard to Queen's
troops no change will
others, they will be transferrmeadteo:he same conditions of the With
e ro
wr engfaorrd t
ht oe
stehre.
vice of the company, subject tod
service as those under which they were
justice they will
enlisted, and if
dislike that change I think in common rn
be entitled to their discharge.
gard to local military services, that theloop proposed, with re.
paid out of the revenues of India, and that their shall
Nlbe
are paid out of thee 2
alial limited to Asia so long as they
Indian retreats°. At present, I believe, the limit of service
for the company's troops is as far as any place eastward
of the Cape. It is proposed that if at any time a part of
the local army shall be employed out of Asia, the troops
shall then not he paid out of the Indian revenue. It
must be for this house to determine whether a force
so employed shall be paid out of the revenue of this
country and whether their employment is consonant
with what the interests of India may be. It is proposed
that, whereas we transfer te this President of the Coun-
cil the functions of the Court of Directors and Board of
Control, both of which will be abolished, the functions
and powers of the secret committee, which govern mat-
ters, involving great discretion and temporary secrecy,
should be vested in the President, as representative of the
responsible Ministers of the Crown. But we propose
that in any case in which orders shall be sent to India
involving the immediate commencement of hostilities
communication thereof shall be made to Parliament
within one month, if Parliament be then sitting, or
within one month after Parliament shall next meet. Tbat
interval will prevent injury
to the public
willservice
by the
publfcation of orders so issued, while it give Parlia-
ment the opportunity of calling upon n the Government
for explanation of the causes for which such orders were
issued. Of course it will be necessary that there should
be an effective audit of the revenues of India and their
applications It is required by this bill that the revenue
shall be applied solely for purposes of government in
India. It is proposed that an auditor shall be appointed
with the power of appointing assistant auditors for the
purpose of examining minutely the accounts of receiptfl

and expenditure, and that the accounts when audited
shall be laid before Parliament. Of course power will
be given to the President of the Council to issue to the
Company such sums as may be necessary to defray the
expenditure required for paying their dividends and
keeping their books, until the Company determine
whether they will or will not avail themselves of the
option given them of being paid in a certain time for
their stock. This, then, is, generally speaking, the
outline of our measure. Of course, the details would
come under the consideration of the house if it should,
as I trust it will, give us leave to bring in the bill ; and
when the bill shall be in the hands of hon. members,
they will then have to consider the details, such as I has e
described, as well as some other points which I have not
thought it necessary to advert to. But the question now
to be considered is simply the great and large question,
whether or not we shall transfer to the esecutive and
respeneible Ministers of the Crown the direction of the
affairs of our Indian territories, or whether that direction
shall be leftlas heretofore under the cumbrous and compli-
cated system described as the double government, which,
in my opinion, is full of embarrassment and calculated
to accomplish the purpose good government ought to
have in view—(hear)—and which, though continued
heretofore, because no great events called on Parliament
to reconsider it, ought, I think, to be abolished without
further delay. (Hear, hear.) Now, Ido not think I shall
be met by objections to this principle itself, because,
when I recollect what has passed on former occasions in
this house, and when I know what is the general
opinion of the country on the point, I cannot persuade
myself that we shall meet with any strong opposition to
the general principle on which the measure is founded.
(Hear.) When I look back to see what passed in 1353,
fIL'I some of the Indira' members of this house ex-
pressed strong opinions that the time must come at no
distant period when an entire change must be made, and
that the introduction of Government members into the
East India direction was only the first step to a further
and ulterior measure ; and the only doubt was whether
a full measure ought not at that time to be
adopted, But whatever may have been the opinion of
Parliament at that time, I am much mist aken as to the
signs and indications of opinion in the country now if
the nation at large had not made up its mind that this
.euble government ought to be made to cease. (Hear.)
I am convinced that this is the opinion of the country,
and great disappointment would be felt if this house
should negative the bill upon an objection to the principle
itself on which it is founded. (Hear, hear.) We shall
no doubt be met by a motion for delay, and be told that
this is not the time for discussing the measure—(hear)
—that India is unsettled ; that we should wait until a
calmer period, and until the difficulties in India are

over. Why, that plea for delay is invariably the plea set
tip by those who are anxious to oppose that which they
cannot resist directly, but which they wish to get rid of
by th• intermediate policy of proposing del iy. (Hear.)
They say, " Da not alter the machine of government at
a time when India is nnsettled and in daoslty, when

you have not fully got rid of the mutiny, and when you
have not entirely re-established authority in every part
of the country." What does that argument amount to
when it is analysed ? It is said, "Do not change your
Government now, because there is in India that to be
done which is difficult to be accomplished, and which
therefore it might require great power to accomplish."
Will, then, any man pretend that a single Government
at home will not be a much more effectual instrument
for the purpose than a double Government ? (Rear.)
Will any man pretend to tell me with a ♦iew to rapidity
of discussion, unity of purpose, and responsibility to the
public, a Government administered by the responsible
advisers of the Crown would not be a far more efficient
instrument for everything to be done here than the exist-
ing conflict of checks and counter-checks, the system of
previous c)mmunications and subsequent communica-

Cons, of objections to a d, oda tch and as transfer by cabs
from one part of the town to another, by which delay
was created, so that a despatch which ought to go out
to-morrow might not go out for a month, or be ready
until it was too late to send it out. Why, no reasonable
man will venture to get, up and tell the house that the
present machine can be so effective and so powerful a
machine for administration at home as the machine we

propose to substitute for it. ',Hear, hear.) Will any man
acquainted with India tell me that the name of the Com-
peny (which is now pretty well seen through by the
natives in India) can have half or the tenth part of the
powerful influence of the name of the Crown. (Hear.)
I declare it is nonsense to say that the Indian chiefs
would not feel ten times more respect for the Rajah of
England than for the name of an unknown company.
(Cheers and laughter.) Well, then, I say, if we look te
India, the machine which we propose to substitute is a
much m ,re powerfulmachine, and infinitely more inflaan-
tial than the existing one. Then we are told that there
is a state of difficulty in India, and what is the proposal
of those who want delay They say that is order to
overcome this difficulty and to restore tranquillity in
India, which we are told is a matter of great difficulty
and which will require great strength and power to
effect, we should prolong the existence of the present
weak system, instead of substituting for it a stronger,
more powerful, and more effectual system. (Hear.)
In that argument there is no sense, I submit. (Hear.)
However, we shall be told by some that the Government
of India is a great mystery—that the unholy ought not
to set foot in that temple—that the House of Commons
should be kept aloof from any interference in Indian
affairs—that if we tranfer the Government to the Minis-
ters responsible to Parliament, we shall have Indian
affairs made the subject of party passions in this house,
and that great mischief would arise therefrom. I think
that argument is founded on an overlooking of the
fundamental principles of the British constitution. (Hear.)
It is a reflection on Parliamentary government. The
management of India is mainly dependent on those
general principles of statesmanship, which men in public
life in this country Acquire here, and make the guidance
of their future coarse. I do not think so ill of this
house as to imagine that it would be disposed for
factious purposes or for the momentary triumph of
party to trifle with the great interests of the country as
connected with the administration of our Indian affairs.
(Hear.) I am accustomed to think that the Parliament
of this country does cembine in itself as much adminis-
trative ability and as much statesmanlike knowledge
and science as are possessed by any number of men in
any other country whatever, and I own, with all repect
for the Court of Directors, teat I cannot bring myself to
think that the Parliament of England is less capable or
wisely administering great affairs of State in connection
with India than the Court of Directors in Leadenhall-
rtreet. I am not afraid to trust Parliament with an in-
sight into Indian affairs. (Hear, hear.) I believe, on
the contrary, that if things have not gone on so fast in
India as they might have done—if the progress of im-
provement has been somewhat slower than might have
been expected, that effect has arisen from the circum•
stances that the public at large were wholly ignorant of
Indian affairs, and had turned away from them, being
daunted by the complications they imagined them to be
involved in ; and because Parliament has never had face
to face, in this and the other house, men personally and
entirely responsible for the administration of Indian
affairs. No doubt a good deal has been done in the
way of improvement of late years, but that which has
been done I may venture to say, has been entirely the
result of debates in this and the other house of Parlia-
ment. (Hear.) And, so far from any discussion on
India having worked evil in India, I believe that the
greater part of thoseimprovements which the East India
Directors boast of in that publication which has lately
issued from Leadenhall-street has been the result of pres-
sure on the Indian administration by debates in Parlia-
ment and discussions in the public press. Therefore, so
far from being alarmed at the corei.:quencee which may
arise from bringing Indian affairs under the cognizance
of Parliament, I believe that a great benefit to India,
and through India to the British nation, will result
therefrom. Therefore, I say, I see no reason, either on
the score of principle or on the score of the augmenta-
tion of patronage, or on the score of time or con- titu-
tional danger, why we should not at once pass the
measure which it will be my duty to present to the
House. I trust that Parliament will feel that great
power is not given to nations without corresponding
duties to be performed. We have, by an almost
miraculous train of events, been intrusted with the
destinies of 150 or 160 millions of men—with the
government, directly or indirectly, of a vast empire
larger in extent than all the face of Europe, putting the
Ressian empire out of the question, That is a task which
involves great responsibility. (Hear.) Do not imagine
that it is the intention of Providence that England
should possess that vast empire, and that we should
have in our hand the destinies of that vast snultitude
of men, simply that we may send out to India
the sons of gentlemen or of the middling classes to make
a decent fortune to live on. That power has been in-
trusted to us for other purposes ; and I think it is the
duty of this nation to use it in such a manner as to pro•
mote, as far as they can, the instruction, the enlighten•
nient, and the civilization of those great populations
which are now subject to our rule. (Cheers.) We have
letele witnessed in India scenes of Lartar.ty which
would make any man shudder, but are we wholly irre-
sponsible for those scenes ? If, during the two centuries
for which we have exercised power in India, we had
used that power to enlighten and civilise the people, do
you think their nature would not, in some measure at
least, have been changed, and that the atrocious crimes
which they have committed would not have been as re-
pugnant to their feelings as they were to those of the
People of this country We ought to remember that we
have a great duty to fulfil in India, and I an sure that
that duty will be beat discharged if we commit its per-
it'erTleee to Cee hands of men who will be accountable
Parliament far their conduct, • d who will feel them-
blees ,_un _ t .l
will add With
epeiroupaoinaet,the public of this country, step
atina
Co`nP
,einth the arringements which they may make. I
it will increase,,re tshte
wineauaernecuaeub_out,t
to
Parliament should adopt the measure
withat while on the one hand it
epnogwtheroof
fouthrispocsoiutoiotnryi,na India,nd render o whileu r
able
enable
us mere firme_u and snedceudr e,it
that willwe on
shouldthe otherdi,,e discharge
de
in
iree
ty liee wg,reiatt
was
id
ieiannrileyemeoprf,ovrams tthro.asnesfdeurrti
cwointrol. I beg for leave to bring in a for transferred
the ewt boheitoctuhe rr, I
government orlndia. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. T. BNItING, in moving
~iiat
an amendment, that it was
toleziiat
house
the government
of
Innodt
everyoneioax,pseadidieltaatt,resen t
in use and the country
must concur in the noble lord's remark,
object they all had in view was the
welfare
that the great
faarre
hear).of India an .I
our fellow-subjects in that country-- he
was in consequence of his believing that tlie bill and
it
the noble lord at the present moment would not °f
con-
duce to that object that he proposed the above
amendment. It was unnecessary for him to follow the
noble lord through his description of the rise of the
East India Company, nor into a discussion of the compa-
rative merits of the elective body of proprietors nor cadet-
ships, other than to aid that if the noble lord had carefully
NA the evidence taken in 1553, he would net haTe charged

of cadetships. The appeal he made to the house was this
all canvassing directors with obtaining votes by promises
—to say, aye or no; was this the right moment to make
change. The noble lord had said he proposed
e India, but would any one assert
totth ra
heatpatrko7 no scohaendgcehatnhge system in this country would not also
have the effect of changing the government iu India. The
constitution of one reacted on the other, and when they
deprived a body of men (two-thirds of whom were elected
by an independent constituency) of their administrative
functions, and placed them in the hands of eight Crown
nominees, the effect must be to create a great change in the
government in India. The noble lord commenced by com-
plimenting the East India Company, and afterwards said
their government was a cumbrous machine, which he was
not aware till au emergency arose needed so great a change.
The noble lord had, however, failed to state its defects,
and, if they existed Government was to blame for them.
He denied that the proposed change would be so beneficial
as the noble lord considered, and he asked the noble lord
to show in any of Sir Colin Campbell's despatches that he
had found the Queen's name of such power and influence
as the noble lord considered it would be in India. Ho
doubted if the noble lord would get the support of Lord
Canning, or any man who had been in India to this mea-
sure. The hon. gentleman remarked that the noble lord
had wisely abstained from noticing the Calcutta memorial ;
and with regard to the system of checks and counter-checks
complained of by the noble lord, he said he considered they
were highly beneficial for the government of India. The
proposed change was looked to with great apprehension
by the people of India under existing circumstances.
Would the Hindoos not be in some manner influenced by
tkis change of Government? Let this change take place,
and the Hindoos would say that the change of Government
would involve a change in the privileges which the native
population had hitherto enjoyed. We were now in the
midst of a gigantic mutiny, but a greater task than that of
suppression hay before the Government, and that was the
task of conciliation. (Hear.) Was the Parliament of
England in a position to say what was required for the
tranquillisati mof India ? Not a c,n-ub cJwf,,c tin this
respect had fallen from the noble lord, who seemed to rely
solely on the magical influence of the Queen's name. He
denied that that house was qualified in point of informa-
tion to decide what the precise measure for India ought to
be. He hardly met a man who did not ask him where ho
could learn something about Indian affairs—(hear)—and
with the froth complications which had arisen out of the
mutiny it was most unwise to precipitate a measure in-
volving radical change. Tho noble lord did not frame the
measure on any alleged shortcomings on the part of the
present Government. The noble lord lead no special
round for the measures nor did he say that the Indian
Government had disappointed reasonable expectations. All
the noble lord asserted was that the machinery was " cum-
brous." (Hear.) The noble lord sneeringly stated that he
did not expect opposition from that (the opposition) side
of the house. The noble lord might better have uttered
that taunt to his supporters, who had made themselves re-
sponsible for the measure of 1853. (Hear.) What had
oceurred since that time to justify the impugning of that
measure ? (Hear.) If, when that measure was passed, he
had known that the then formed Government was to be
changed in four years, he should have said, " Pass such a
measure in 1853, when there is tranquillity in India." A
measure which might have been prudent to pass then it
may be madness to propose at this moment. A committee
had sat on the affairs of India, but not one of its members,
he believed, had asserted that the existing machinery of
the Indian Government was a cumbrous machinery.
(Hear.) The President of the Board of Control would no
doubt state in what respect his benevolent suggestions had
been followed or rejected. (Hear.) The present First Lord
of the Admiralty was a member of that committee, as was
the present Secretary for the Colonies. The First Lord
would no doubt state in his place to what extent be thought
the act of 1833 and that of 1853 had been successful or not.
The Secretary of the Colonies had, in a recent speech, said
that our colonies wore well governed, because they had
been left to themselves. Was the right hon. gentleman pre-
pared to acid the same language with respect to the go-
vernment of India ? The proposal of the Government was
in fact a revival of a system which had proved unfortunate
in our colonies, where patronage and domination had led
to the most disastrous results. (Hear, hear). The noble
lord said tha . party and political feeling was not rife in
India, but he (Hr. Baring) much feared that the state of
things, in which the late Lord Hardinge said that he
knew a man's politics in India only by accident, had
passed away. (Hear, hear.) He repeated his opinion that
the change in the name of the Government would be con-
sidered to be without meaning in India. There was a
growing feeling out of doors in this country that there
was to be an attempt to Christianise the native population.
For his own part, ho desired that the conversion should
be tho result of conviction, and not of any forced measures
on the part of the Government, (Hear, hear.) Groat
progress had been made in India both with respect to in-
ternal improvement and in the spread of education, and it
, was clear that the "delay" of which the noble lord spoke
had not checked these stales. A member of the late Go-
vernment had stated in the House of Lords that the
Government of India was an anomaly. Bat the circum-
stances attending our possession of this great dependency
were altogether exceptional, and we had no precedent to
guide us. (Hear. hear). The noble lord said that public
opinion was the safeguard required ; but he (Mr. Baring)
asked whether the public opinion of England was at this
moment rips for taking the initiative. (Hear, hear)? He
feared that at this moment the public feeling of England
was heated with regard to India. (Hear, hear). The pro-
posed council would no doubt be composed of intelligent
men, but it was absurd to say that they would be inde-
pendent. (Hear, hear). He did not know who the first
eight names were to be; but in Mr. Fox's bill there was at
least the semblance of deference to some other authority
than the Government. (Hear). Before they put down a
Goverment it was their duty to put down a mutiny, and
ho implored the house to pause before it asked for the de-
struction of one Government in the absence of proper in-
formation. His hen. relative, the member for Portsmouth,
had recently said that the East India Company would
shortly be matter of history. Fortunately, the pages of
that history were still open, and he trusted that when they
were read it would be admitted that although faults might
be detected, there had been unexampled success accom-
plished by the spirit of commercial enterprise and by the
indomitable courage of the European soldier. (Hear.) In
reading that page of history, they would find that great
statesmen had wisely governed that country. Ho hoped,
moreover, that it would not be found in that history that
British Goe-erainent and a British House of Commons had,
in the midst of a gigantic mutiny, converted the dominion
of the Queen into the shuttlecock of party. (Cheers.) The
hon. member concluded by moving an amendment, that it
is not at present expedient to legislate for the government
of India.

The SPEAKER having put the question,
Sir E. PERRY said, that having laid on the table a
motion involving the same objects as the present bill, he
trusted ho might offer some observations in reply to
the hon. member for Huntingdon. Although he was desir-
ous for the introduction of such a measure as this in 1853,
he nevertheless thought that the time chosen by the noble
lord for his proposed law was vary well chosen. He said
that the company's Government had erased to receive that
respect from the inhabitanteof India which it had formerly,
possessed, and that a desire for a change was almost uni-
versal there. That government was condemned by the
public as an effete, useless, and cumbrous machine. Pro-
bably no government had acted with purer intentions ; but
his complaint was, that their practice was not in accord-
ance with their intentions. The system of education in
India owed its origin to Parliamentary influence. He re-
collected when he had the honour of being elected presi-
dent of the board of education in the presidency of Bom-
bay, he received one of the ablest and roost luminous state
papers drawn up by Mr. James Mill on the subject. That
state paper was looked upon as the magna charta of Indian
education. It was not the business of those who supported
the present bill to bring any charges against the Court of
Directors. His objections to the present system applied
both to the Court of Directors and the Board of Control.
He had no doubt that there were faults on both sides; and
that in their joint action they male an exceedingly bad
system. The hon. member for Huntingdon badpronounced
a great eulogium upon the government of the East India
Company. But previous to 1784 allioaries--Mr. Pitt, and
Mr•. Fox—were agreed that it was venal, corrupt, oppres-
sive, false, and treacherous in its relations to the native
states. It is clear from the language of Mr. Pitt when ho
introduced the bill which was the foundation of the present
system, that he contemplated that eventual transfer of the
government of India to the Ministers of the Crown which
was now, 83 years afterwards to be carried out by the bill
of the noble lord. Mr. Pitt's act did not give the Crown all
the power over the government of India that was desirable,
and various acts had been passed to give them that power.
The course of legislation had left the Court of Directors a
mere c«put mortuum, and ho should, therefore, strenuously
support a measure which, while it would not give
the Government more power or patronage than they now
possessed, would impose upon them a complete responsi-
bility to parliamentary control. Up to the present time
we had noeknown who was respes3ible for the Affghan war.
Such a state of things was most unsatisfactory. We should
know who was responsible for every such event, either in
India or the colonies ; and that would he secured by this
bill. His hon. friend objected to the abolition of the secret
committee. But they were merely the instruments of the
President of the Board of Control, who could secretly and
orders to India through their medium without their nature
being known either to the Court of Directors or to Parlia-
ment. But according to the bill of the noble lord every
order issued by the President of the Council for India would
be laid before Parliament within a month after it was
issued, and would be liable to be canvassed and discussed.
Notwithstanding the inferiority of Ceylon to Hindostan in
soil and climate, and in the races by which it was inhabited.
the progress of that isla,ud,which is under Crown government,
contrasted in every respect most favourably with that made '
in India under the government of the company. The evils
which had marked our colonial government could not appear
in India unless that house neglected its duties. Whyhad there
been an absence of corruption and jobbery in the adminis-
tration of the Indian patronage? Because, under acts of
Parliament, the patron age in India was placed in the hands
of the local government in India, who were obliged to con-
fer appointments upon those who had served a certain
time in India and had certain qualifications. He cer-
tainly did not think that at a time when the administra-
tion of patronage was daily becoming more and more pure
Parliament was likely to relax those salutary provisions.
There was one reason why he thought the present time
peculiarly suitable for legislation. He could not see with-
out the gravest apprehension the antagonistic and turbu-
lent spirit displayed by the English public and the English
press in India towards the natives. He desired that Indiaa
subjects should be discussed in England, that it might be
seen that the opinions of the people of this country coin-
cided with the generous and most politic policy of Lord
Canning, who had steadfastly refused to make any dis-
tinction between a native and an Englishman so long as
each remained a loyal subject. He should support the
measure of the noble lord, because he believed that i s
would promote the civilisation and the improvement of
India, and ultimately its admission into the Christian
fold. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. M. MI LNES thought it was not the proper time to
iutro duce a measure of this description in the midst of the
present crisis in India. He, at all events, who had in
1853 done all he could to perpetuate the Government of the
Gast India Company, could not support the measure of his
noble friend, except the strongest case in its favour were
made out. Now, he could imagine that such a case might
possibly have been presented. It might have been shown
that at the late crisis the action of the double Government
c i hadthelt i
et. ;ueeeneod nvszesrroon, impededm
shown
tnhtthat dangerous
to the permanence of the English
Government. Hetinitb.
power in India that it was necoss try to abolish it. But it
had not been shown by the noble lord that the success of
in 1813 supported
called upon to aba hypeu thetintiundtgio.
instedteetiodnou,•
dangerous to obliteratetk"
time-Lonoured •
calmness on the short •
because they were rather
l part of the Government.
\
nu sybl ol
double
had
dt
Government.hb ee
en
caused
a mutinyu s 3 had
Norabd y beent
hadhat
,tltl,l not see, therefore, how those who
it.balendGhoevetrhu:nefonrtecoloilkdendowwibthe
It always seemed to him most
in a marked and obvious manner a
wanti of good intentions on the
longs of the East India Company,
I man nature than to any due to the imperfections of hu-
a d not think that the free•