The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-01 00:00:00

THE SUN,

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 1, 1858.

they were Actuated on the opposition benches-(cheers)-a
Government which publishes libels on former advisers of
the Crown, and attacks on former Ministers-(hear)- a Go-
vernment which sends forth to the world and publishes to
the whose of India principles which, if carried into execu-
tion, would lead to the dismemberment of our Indian em-
pire-a Government which, from whatever motives it may
have been actuated, publishes to the world the most offen-
sive and insulting remarks on a Minister of the Crown in
one of our foreign dependencies. (Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER-The
speech which we have just listened to reminds me of an
unfortunate circumstance which has recently occurred in
that country which formed the subject of part of the re-
marks of the noble lord. A. gentleman of letters, h evil];
done or written something which offended a powerful body,
was called to account by a member of that body ; he inet
his opponent without any hesitation, and in the first es-
counter conducted himself with fair repute and success.
(Cheers) But no sooneralid that occur in this house which
was last Friday,. than another gentleman, one whose fierce
mien and considerable reputation it is supposed will put
the matter right, has taken upon himself to demand setae
faction, accompanied by a considerable body of other gene
tlemen, who seem by their presence to signify that if the
second assault is not more successful than the first he will
have others to succeed him, (Cheers) I hope that my
words will not apply to anybody in this house ; but I meant
to state that I cannot at all believe that my fate in this
second encounter will be so unfortunate as that of the un-
happy gentleman to whom I have referred. (Hear.) But I
cannot help saying, considering that the noble lord has
come from the country to make his assault, that he has
greatly over-stated the case, which was more temperately
urged on Friday night. Let me remove the great misconcep-
tion on which his argument was founded. First of all, no
doubt inadvertently, he ascribed to me words which I not
only never used but had no intention of using. I never said
when we came into office this country was on the verge of war,
What I did say was this-that the war might have been an
affair not of weeks or days, but of hours.- (Hear, hear,
from the Opposition.) But the statement that by that I
meant to convey the impression that the late Government
had left affairs in such a state that war was inevitable is an
entirely fallacious one. (Oh, ob.) I will admit all 'that the
noble lord now says. I will admit that when his Govern-
inent retired there was no prospect of a war with France.
(Cheers from the Opposition.) But that is exactly the a
mission on which the accuracy of my -observation rests,
Of course, when there was a Government who had avoided
answering a despatch which it was supposed conveyed an
insult to the people of this country, when there was a Go-
vernment who not only declined answering this supposed
iusu' ting despatch, but also agreed to introduce a bill into
this house to change the 1 ews of England, of coarse it was
easy for a Government of that kind to maintain a good un-
derstanding with a Power whose purposes then (that Power
being entirely misled) the Government was prepared to
fulfil. (Hear.) But the moment the change of Government
took place, the moment there wasan administration bound,
in deference to a resolution of this house, to answer, end
in a becoming manner, that supposed insulting despatch-
the moment there was a Government whose first duty it
was to declare to the Government of France that they were
not prepared at their instance to recommend any change
in the laws of England, the house will see that at such a
moment the issue of peace or war was most imminent -
(hear, hear)-that it did depend upon weeks or less--(hear
hear)-and that it was not so much a question between
the Governments of the two countries as between the ex•
cited feelings of the two nations. (Hear, hear) And those
who have attended to the circumstances know that the ex-
pressions I used in Buckinghamshire were not inadvertent
or inaccurate, or exaggerat ed expressions, but that they were
perfectly warranted, historically accurate expressions, such
as could be used at that time, not only without giving
offence to France, but, on the contrary, only referring to cir-
cumstances which then existed. And how did the Govern-
ment act in that position? Called upon to pursue a policy
at a moment when the noble lord tells us there was secu-
rity for a good understanding between the countries, how
did government act? Her Majesty's Ministers trusted to
the great sagacity and natural good disposition of that
eminent person who rules Franco. They believed that, if
all the circumstances were brought before his unerring
judgment-(hear, hear) -that if the question was extri-
cated from the influence of those parasites of both coun-
tries who had induced him to believe that the people of
this country would submit to a change in their laws
knowing the complete knowledge which the Emperor of
France had of England, knowing his -great sagacity and
his natural good disposition, they were confident that,
if he was called upon to the consideration of the
question, he would decide as was best for the happi-
ness of both countries; and their confidence in that
eminent parson was not placed in vain. (Hear, hear.)
From that moment week after week, and month
after month, our relations assumed a more cordial
character-(cheers)--and, under these circumstances, was
I not justified in saying that we maintained peace, and
that inestimable alliance on which the civilisation of
Europe so much depends? (Hear, hear.) Therefore the
observations of the noble lord to prove that the late
government of the Queen did not leave this country on
the eve of war were founded on a fallacy. I admit the
whole case of the noble lord in the very words of the
noble lord, that " there was nothing when he went out of
office which threatened war bet :seen th s two countries ;"
bat then the condition on which peace depended was in-
fluenced by the change from a shameful and truckling
policy which had been pursued by the late Government--
a policy which was not only not for the honour of this
country, but, as I believe, opposed to the interest and ad-
vantage of Franco, our faithful ally. I believe no one is
more convinced of that now than the Emperor himself,
ant that is proved by the way in which the news of the
trial of Barnard was received in that country. His Ma-
jesty felt that the law of E island had been fairly appealed
to and administered in his own c•tsa, and the Government
felt convinced that the administration of the law, though
no result could be more mortifying or disappointing, could
never bre° ne a source of misunderstanding and coldness
between the tso countries. I was justified, therefore, in
stating that I had, in unison with the declaration of Par-
liament, vindicated and maintained the honour of Eng-
land, without forfeiting that alliance which, I am proud
to say, exists with the most cordial feeling on both sides,
but which, according to the noble lord, could only be pre-
served by pursuing a 'Alley which this country repudiated.
(Hear, hear.) Having made that statement which the noble
lord-I will not say perverted, because I believe he misun-
derstood it-but that I wishe 1 to convey to the country
that France would in Aka a sudden attack upon us-I need
hardly say that no such thing was expressed or intended
by me. I intended to say that which was a matter of fact
- that witkin 24 hours, in consequence of the truckling,
servile, and disgraceful policy adopted, but which as,unied
a temporarily flattering position towards the French peo-
ple and Emperor, there was danger that war might have
taken place between the two countries. (Hear.) But the
wisdom and dignity of this country on the one hand, an
the wisdom and magnanimity of the French Emperor, pre.
vented that great evil, and the alliance between the two
countries is now as firm and as cordial as ever. (Hear.)
What was there to prevent me from s tying that to Eng-
lishmen, and those Englishmen my constituents, or that I
should be ashamed or afraid of making swat a declaration ?
The noble lord says the declaration was injudicious and
improper; but these are words to which I might apply a
different meaning. It would be easy for me to retaliate by
seying that it. was injudicious and improper in the noble
lord to bring she matter again before the House of Come
mons. (Hear.) The noble lord then says that my state-
ment was likely to affect the public credit of this country.
Public credit is indeed a more delicate thing than I ima-
gine it to be if that statement of mine, as I have vindicated
it to-night, could have the slightest effect upon it. What
affects the public credit of the country is a secret and ser-
vile policy pursued to please some foreign power in total
ignorance of the character of this nation, and which, there-
fore, ended in disappointing that power, and baffling the
wishes which it allowed it to cherish. (Cheers.) That is
a policy which, I do not deny, may be injurious to the
public credit of the country. (Hear ) The noble lord has
still a hankering after the case of the Cagliari, in respect of
which he was so reserved and silent when he sat on this side
of the house. (Hear.) The noble lord did not seem quite
satisfied with our having freed two of our countrymen
whom he for long months permitted to remain unnoticed.
(Ministerial cheers.) At last, ashamed of the conduct of
himself and his colleagues, he makes an inadvertent state-
ment to-night by which he wishes to convey to the house
and to the country that our two countrymen were notfreed
by the exertions of the present government. The noble
lord is wrong in the statement he made to the house. Both
men were prisoners when weacceded to office-(hear, hear)
-and the first thing we did on coming into office was to
communicate with Mr. Lyons, to apply to the government
of Naples, and to interfere on behalf of our countrymen.
The noble lord ssys that one of them (Mr. Watt) had been
freed, and was under the care of the English consul. How
was he freed ? Why was he freed ? Wnat were the condi-
tions of his freedom ? That unfortunate man, under the
treatment ho received, and in consequence of the neglect
of the noble lord and his government-(cheers) -was af-
fected in his reason, and on the application being made by,
the English consul, who behaved throughout those pro-
ceedings with great spirit and humanity, he was permitted
to leave his dungeon ansi to enter an hospital or lazaretto,
but the condition was that the instant his health revive d
he was to return to his imprisonment and to take his trial.
(Hear, hear.) As I had the satisfaction of announcing to-
night, in answer to the question of an hon. and learned
gentleman, these two English subjects have left their pri-
son, free and without coaeitions. (Cheers.) Yet the nob'e
lord attempted to state that one bad been freed by the in-
fluence of his own government. (Hear, hear.) I will make
no remark on the statement of the noble lord that I de-
clared there was an attempt amougst sorn a persons to excite
war between Naples and Sardinia. The noble lord has re-
ferred to the observations which I made on that matter,
hut the noble lord was unauthorised in many particulars.
The statement that there had been attempts to embroil the
two countries-that Italy might take advautage of these
unfortunate attempts to excite weer between the two coun-
tries-that the consequences of that war, if it occurred,
would be to set Europe in flames -that theconsequences
would be fatal to that constitution id cause in Sarhula
in which wo felt so much interest, was my firm convic-
tion ; and that those who joined in those endeavours
believed they would prove inconvenient and ember-
rassing-te the existiog Government, was founded on no
slight evidence. s(Hear.) Then the n eble lord, in his dis-
cursive speech, goes to the question of finance, and he
seems sore that the measures of her Majesty's Govern-
ment have been approved of by the house, and passed with-
out difficulty. ([Tear.) The noble lord seems disposed
to place in opposition to the measure of the Government
the budget which had been pseparo I, but happily not
brought roma, d by the late G evernment- (hear, and
ltug,htcr) -of which a
great principle seems to have been
an increase of the income-tax. ( Hear, and oh.) That was
acknowledged by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer,
an I for that policy the nt ble lord himself as the heed of the
Treasury, might ho thought responsible. Then the noble
lord flies to Lathe, anti repeats the charge which was not
much insisted on by the uolle lord the member for the
City, that the policy of the late Government, as a poll
with regard to India, was a policy of extermination or
something of that character. I sin sorry that a spec ch
made at a dinner in the country should be made the subject
of so much analysis in
read the lionie of C unoions. (Hear.)
But if any gentleman- smy of
in a fair and die.
passionate manlier, he will find that it is not possible by
any logical construction to make the observations I them e
uttered apply to aoy previous policy. (Hear, and oh.)
My observations were made with regard to confiscation
and the consequences of confiscs tier. "(Hear.) The con-
sequences of confiscation are vengeance, and of vongeene©
massacre ; and I say that confiscation, vengeance and mas-
sacre are the aggregates in the climax which makes use
policy of mercy. Thit is the statement
constituents; and I said-I leave you to
fpre infearde the
o superior rio r
choose between the policy which we recommend-a policy
of mercy, of religious toleration, and of respect for pro-
perty, and the consequences of the proclamation of Lord

Canning ; which policy being one of confiscation, must
had to consequences directly the opposite. (Hear.
hear.) To that statement I now adhere. The noble lord
having touched upon the question of France in a series of
observations which I' have shown Ate founded on a mis-
conception ; having touched on the case of the Cagliari,
with a statement which is entirely unfounded ' • having
touched upon a question on which I have shown that the
inference he draws is entirely unauthorised, I now come
to what I believe is the real and- main cause of this ad-
journed debate on the Buckinghamshire dinner. (Laugh-
ter.) The noble lord said I have called the opposition a
cabal, which, irrespective of other objections, he says is an
inappropriate term, because the only difference between a
cabal and a party is, that the former applies to a smaller
number of persons. I should not care to quarrel with the
definition of the noble lord, but at the same time I am not
willing to give my assent to his definition of the word
cabal. I always understood it to moan a secret society of
conspirators—(ministerial cheers, and cries of "Oh, oh,"
from the opposition)—that, it meant a secret and unknown
society. Therefore, when I speak of a cabal, I need not
assure the house that I am not
,talking of any opposition or
party in the House of Commons, whose whole conduct is
public, whose members, whatever may be their opinions,
must be considerable, and whose behaviour within these
walls must be attendee by accidents and circumstances
which are totally discordant with the popular idea of a
cabal. (Hear, hear.) I am quite certain that I never talked
of a cabal in the House of Commons, or used any word by
which any member of the House of Commons might con-
sider ha was a member of that cabal. There may be mem-
bers of that cabal in the House of Commons. (" Hoar,
bear," and laughter.) I am sure there are members of that
cabal who are not members of the House of Commons, and
I protest against the noble lord's taking up these observa-
tions and insinuating to the House of Commons that I in-
tended to describe what must still be a very inconsider-
able number of its members. But I want to know from
the noble lord what is the meaning of these repeated dis-
cussions of my speech—whether this is to be an adjourned
debate, and what is to be the result of it; for I take it for
granted there is not to be a division. (Cheers.) Divisions
are no longer fashionable. (Repeated cheers.) So far as I
could collect the moaning of the noble lord (Russell) on
Fri,lay last, the object of his demonstration was to put the
liberal party of the country in an intelligible position as
opposed to her Majesty's government. That was a legiti-
mate and constitutionalcourse on the part of the noble lord.
(Hear, hear.) If the noble lord the member for the City is
a Liberal—e(laughter)—if he sympathises with the Liberal
party, I think the noble lord was justified in showing to the
country that there is a great Liberal party with which he is
connected, and in contrasting their opinions with those held
by the occupants of the Treasury bench. (Hear, hoar.) But
I do not see how anything of this can apply to the noble
lord who has addressed us to-night, because I cannot per-
ceive that in sentiment, or feeling, or interest there is any-
thing in common between that noble lord and the great
Liberal party. (Hear, hear.) I must take the discussion on
Friday night and the present discussion together, for it is
only from the combined observations made on both occa-
sions that I can understand the scope of these movements.
I understand that questions are soon to arise which are cal-
culated to test the character of the liberal opinions held by
the noble lord. The groat Liberal party in this house' are
in favour of vote by ballot. Are the ncble lords the mem-
ber for the City of London and the member for Tiverton
in favour of that measure? (Hear, hear.) Thegreat Libe-
ral party are in favour of the total abolition of church-
rates. (Hear, hear.) Are her Majesty's late Government,
in favour of that measure? (Hear, hear.) The great
Liberal party are in favour of the measure of the hon.
member for Surrey (Mr. L. King). Are her Majesty's late
Government in favour of the new Franchise Bill of that
hon. member ? (Hear, hear.) All I know is that they op-
posed it on principle, and offered grave arguments to in-
fluence the opinion of the house in opposition to it. The
great Liberal party profess to be in favour of economy.
Were the late Government in favour of economy ? (Hear,
hear.) It is my painful duty to know what has been done
in that respect by the late Government, and I must say
that a more extravagant, reckless, and profuse Government
I never knew. (Loud cheers.) The great Liberal party are
in favour of the publicity of documents. Are the late Go-
vernment in favour of the publicity of documents of im-
portance ? There never was a Government in this country
that exercised eo much reserve in affairs of State as her
Majesty's late Government. The only charge against her
Majesty's, present Government is that they produced a pub-
lic document—the only charge against us is that we pro-
duced this despatch ; but no ono could ever say of us that
we intercepted a letter. (Loud cheers.) There is ano her
subject ou which the great liberal party haveshown groat
interest—that is; the conduct of the executive Govern-
ment. They demand -that the conduct of the executive
Government should be temperate and moderate. But what
has been the conduct of the late executive ? It is the first
Government that ever carried on a war without the sanc-
tion of Parliament. (Hear.) And if I look to the other
great branch of the executive—the exercise of peennege—
is it not notorious that their exercise of patronage has out-
raged all the sense and spirit of the country. (Cheers.)
What, then, is the use of these manoeuvres—l will not say
of a cabal, for I will not suppose that any members of it sit
in this house—(laughter) --but whatel want to know is,
what is the meaning of all these operations • because, as far
as I can form an opinion, there is not the slightest bond of
connectio r or sympathy between the noble lord the member
for Tiverton and his fr:ends of the great Liberal party?
(Hear.) Upon every subject there is a total want of sym-
pathy, and a total dissimilarity between them as far as I
can judge. As far as lam concer ned,:l am quite regard-
less whether, every time we are about to go into committee
of supply, cabinet ministers or those who expect to be ca-
binet ministers rise to demand an explanation of the ob-
servations I may make to my honest constituents. The
proper place I suppose for speaking on matters of state,
and announcing declarations of peace and war, is a carousel
in a club-room, to which you invite great officers, in which
Prime Ministers take a part, and announce amongst what
has been called "an inebriated assembly " though I do
not call it such that a great military expedition is to be
undertaken. (Cheers.) Although Ido not shrink from cri-
ticism of my speeches, and am prepared to meet any of
those who think fit to attack them, what, I ask, must the
country think when it sees the time so precious—
(beer, hear)—when the public business is so backward,
when affairs in thli -house are so urgent—what, I say,
must it think of the conduct of the noble lord and his co-
managers in these operations, in night after night pre-
venting the progress of public business, and giving vent
to hear discouterited feelings at the position they now oc,
cupy? (Hear.) I would put it to the noble lord to contrast
his position at this moment with that which he occupied
three months ago, immediately after that great and unex-
pected blow which deprived his Sovereign and his country
of the services of such a Minister. (Laughter.) The noble
lord entered the house proud, and justly proud, of being
the chief of a great and overwhelming opposition. How-
ever trolusive might have been the expectation, the general
idea was that the noble lord bad each great power that,
though content to sit for a time in the cold shales of oppo-
sition, he could in an instant resume power and place, and
was really the arbiter of the destinies of the country.
(Hear, hoar.) What has made the difference in the noble
lord's present position and that which he occupied three
months ago? I put in no claim for the conduct of the pre-
sent Government in that respect. I can only say, as I said
in the 'speech which has been made the subject of so much
criticism, that we sedulously, diligently, and devotedly at-
tempted to do our duty. (Hear.) But I cannot suppose that
anything we have-done has produced this great change in
the po:ition of an avowed position. It is the sense of the
country which has proclaimed that the conduct of the noble
lord was not prompted by feelings which could win its re,-
spect. That is why I called them a "cabal" What is called
a cabal, whether they boin this house or ia the other house
of Parliament, whether it meet in a private house or in one
devoted to affairs of state, is a body of men who combine
together—not to advocate a policy, not tie recommend by
their wisdom and eloquence great measures, calculated to
win the approval of a sympathising community, but who
hand together, and club all their resources, their station,
their abilities and varying influences—for what? to upset
the Government of the Queen—(cheers, land "oh, oh")—
and who, in taking that step, did not maxim even to de-
clare their policy, and who thereby announced that their
only great policy was place. (Cheers and "Oh.") It is
this c ;racket which made the great body of the people of
this country look with aversion at these manoeuvres and
machinations, and won for her Majesty's Government the
sympathy of all generous and honourable minds.
(Loud cheering) If I wanted tq confirm the
government in power— If a wanted to give them a firmer
tenure of office, I would beg of noble lords to continue
these attacks. (hear, hear.) I should be delighted if,
night after night, they called on me in this manner to de-
fend the statement I made to my constituents, not one
wort of which do I recall, and which I made with the
due thought that such a statement requited. (Hear.) I
should wish them to pursue this course, for I am quite
certain that, whatever differences of opinion there may be
in this house and in Engl and between the great conserva-
tive and the great liberal parties, there is one bond of union
between us, and that we are both resolved in this, that not
only hero but throughout the country we will not any
longer be the tools or the victims of an obsolete oligarchy-
(Loud cheers.) -
Sir G. GREY said that the right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had complained that the pro-
ceeding taken by the noble lord the member for Tiverton
had been an unfair and improper one; —Brit-- he
(Sir G.
Grey) contended that this was a course which the noble
lord, as head of the late Government, felt to be one which
it was his dUty to take. The charges brought by that
right hon. gentleman were most unfounded, and such es
ought to-have been made. The right hon. gentleman had
asked how often were these explanations to bo asked ? He
(Sir G.'Grey) would ask how often was that right hon.
gentleman to give different and contradictory explanations
of a speech ho ought never to have made to his honest and
simple constituents ? (Hoar, hear.) The right lion. gen-
tleman proceeded to road the passage from the speech at
Aylesbury, on the imminency of war with France. On
i a previous occasion, when explanations were asked by the
noble lord the member for the city of Leaden, the right
hon. gentleman hail justified what ho had stated on the
ground of the answer given by the noble lord at the head
of the Government forty-eight hours before he left office,
and on the circumstance of the French Minister having
left the country. Now, however the right hon. gentleman
bad said that when the late dovernment bad left office
there we no risk whatever of war. (Hear, heer;) He trusted
that this explanatioe would go down t. the constituents of
the right honourable gentleman at Aylesbury. With re-
spect to India, he regretted to hear
the right hon. gentle-
man is poet his charges against Lord Canning and the late
Government, that it was one of confiscation and'massacre,
and this was the` more remarkable as the right hon. gentle-
man hal stated on a former occasion that the Government
bad sent a telegram to Lord Canning assuring him that
the noble lord enjoyed the full confidence of her Majesty's
Government. (Ileer, hear.) He cordially tru.cited that
the noble lord the Governor-General would rise superior to
P' rsonel censiderations, and not be influenced in his future
conduct by the personal insults which had been heaped
upen him by ler Majesty's Government. (hear, hear.)
He trusted that what hail talc. n place would afford a use-
ful lesson to the right hon. gentleman, and induce him to
leave n greater regard to the dignity of the office which he
had the honour of holding. ( Hear, hear.)
Sir .T. PAKINGTON said—I think the house will be of
has endeavoured to make up by vehemence of manner for
opinion that the right hen gentlemeu who has just spoken
that lack of 'argument which has distinguished his address.
(Hear, hear.) But Ido not rise so much to offer a reply
to the right boo. gentlemen, as to enter my protest against
what appears to me to be a most unpardonable waste of
the pubic time. (Hear, hear.) After having already
lost a whole week in that faction fight which terminated
in a manner that afforded another remarkable instance of
the rapidity of the descent from the sublime to .the
ridiculous, honourable gentlemen opposite are now en-
deavouring to extract some .p .rty advantage from attack
ing the speech which was delivered on a recent occasion
by my right honourable friend the Chancellor of • the
Exchequer. Now, lam not surprised that hon. gentle-

men opposite should feel some dissatisfaction with that
speech of my right hon. friend, for I believe it has ap-
pealed to the public sympathy, and has excited the public
feeling more than any speech • which has been delivered
for a considerable period of time. The noble lord the
member for Tiverton, and the right hon. baronet the mem-
ber for Morpeth, have both alluded to it—and justly
alluded to it—as a most remarkable speech ; and I have
no doubt that they deeply regret the effect it has pro-
duced on the public mind. Bet while -I wish to protest
against the waste of tho public time, I am arso anxious to
take this opportunity of protesting against what I must
consider the most unfair misrepresentation which has been
made of .the language used by my right hon. friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer on last Friday night in reply
to the noble lord the member for London, as compared
with the language which he has employed this evening in
answer to the noble lord tho member for Tivertou. I deny
that my right hon. friend is, open to the imputation which
has been thrown out against him with great severity and
great injustice, of having held one language on Friday last
and another this evening, and of having on these two oc-
casions offered different explanations of that passage in
his address to his constituents which seems to have given
so much offence to hon. gentlemen opposite. I contend
that there is no difference either in the opinions or in the
language of my right hon. friend. My right hon. friend
has said this evening that he adheres to the statement
which he made at Slough, that when the present Govern-
ment acceded to office the continuance of peaceful rela-
tions between France and England was a question not of
weeks or of days, but of hours. Now, I have no hesita-
tion
Crown,
w stating,
havefr
obtained
from huedn
ed o f
knowledge
teos which,reiiai oansshave
ofo
the
hesitation in broadly stating my belief that those words of
my right hon. friend were substantially correct. (Hear.)
It will not do for hon. gentlemen opposite, disappointed
in a party attack, to endeavour, in the bitterness of that
disappointment, to snatch a party advantage from the
speech of my right hon. friend. It will not do for them to
la y hold of a phrase and quibble upon a word. We all
know that it is a very common form of expression to say
that a thing is not a question of days but of hours ; and
what is, in this instance, the fair and candid interpretation
of that phease ? Why, it is that we succeeded to the ad-
ministration of public affairs under circumstances which
made war with France imminent. (Hear.) We do not
shrink from that statement. On the contrary, we chal-
lenge the noble lord opposite to deny it if ho can. (Hear,
hear.) I appeal with confidence upon that point to
the language used by the noble lord himself. The
noble lord, in moving the Conspiracy Bill, told us in
plain language that the Government offered that measure
as an atonement to France for what had taken place in Eng-
land, and that if it were not passed the alliance between
the two countries would be endangered. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord complained to-night of the reference made
on Friday last by my right hon. friend to the answer he
gave himself to a question addressed to him by the hon.
member for Devizes (Mr. D. Griffith). But the tone of
that answer was that members of that house should be cau-
tious as to the language which they held, and that the re-
lations between France and this country were in so critical
a position that an unguarded word might endanger the
alliance. (Hear.) And again, the noble lord, in his ad-
dress to the house on the morning when he met with that
defeat which led to his resignation of office, distinctly em-
ployed similar language, and stated in reply to my right
hon. friend the member for the University of Oxford—l
do not pretend to quote his exact words, but I believe I
am fairly stating the purport of his observations—the
noble lord stated that so critical was the condition of our
relations with France, that unless the bill was passed there
would be great danger of an interruption of our friendly
relations with that country. (Hear.) I find, too, that the
noble lord the late Foreign Secretary, in another place—in
language more guar.led, I admit, but the same in substance
—expressed his conviction of the critical character of our
relations with our great neighbour and ally. I might also
appeal to the language used in the despatch sent to this
country from Paris by our ambassador, Lord Cowley, im-
mediately after the division which overturned the Govern-
ment of the noble lord. In that despatch Lord Cowley re-
ferred to the irritated state of public feeling in France, to
the necessity of extreme caution in the management of the
relations between the two countries, and to the imminent
dangerof an interruption of their friendly relations. (Hear.)
I allude to this state of feeling without imputing the slight-
ed, blame to the Governments either of England or France.
The state of feeling in both nations was at the moment of
the most dangerous character. Great irritation prevailed—
and I state the fact the more unhesitatingly beceusel believe
that irritation was at variance with the feeling of amity that
naturally exists between these two great and free nations.
The French are not aware of the state of our laws. They
found that a plot had been concocted in England, and
their indignation Was naturally directed against this coun-
try ; bnt then a similar feeling was excited in England
when the noble lord came down to this house with the Con-
spiracy Bill, and when people here found the Government
bringing in at the dictation of a foreign power, a measure
to alter our criminal law. Irritation thus prevailed on
both sides, and it was when that irritation was at its
height that the change of government took place, and that
the present Ministry aeseded to office' What was the line
of policy which we then felt ourselves compelled to adopt ?
Why, we found that we could not outrage the public feel-
ing of this country by persevering with that measure. We
were obliged to reverse the course which the late Govern-
ment haetaken. We were aware that public feeling would
not tolerate legislation which, right or wrong, appeared to
them to proceed from foreign (notation. It then became
necessary that we should intimate to France the policy we
were compelled to adopt ; and that is the period to which
my right hon. friend referred. There can be no doubt but
that the relations of the two countries were at that moment
of a most critical nature, and that the continuance of
peaceful relations between them was strictly, as my right
hare friend stated, a question not of days but of hours. In
confirmation of that view, and in direct contradiction of
what fell from hon. gentlemen opposite, I am enabled, and
I have obtained the necessary permission, to state that on
more th n one occasion the late French ambassador to the
British Court, Count Persigny, did remonstrate on the
policy of this country, and di i state in plain terms that if
that policy were not changed it would be impossible that
the friendly relations between the two countries could
be maintained. (Hear) Under these circumstances, is my
right hon. friend to be assailed for having taken credit to
her Majesty's Governmet —(heer, hear)—for having put
an end to these difficulties, which I have not overstated
by one single iota? (Hear, hear.) But most cordially do
I agree with the statement made by my right hon. friend
that evening that this dangerous state of things could only
be put an end to by the greatest caution, the greatest for-
bearance, and the greatest temper on both sides ; an 1 we
ought to recognise in the distinctest manner that judg-
ment, that sagacity, and that forbearance which were so
eminently displayed upon tout occasion by our loyal and
true ally the Emperor of the French; and through which
that state of irritation I have described has been most
happily removed. I believe that, now that a better state
of feeling exists, the people on bath sides of the Channel
aro fully aware of the important truth that the prosperity
not only of the two nations, but the prosperity of the whole
civilised world, depends in a great degree on the mainte-
nance of their friendly relations. (Cheers ) But I must say
I think we have great reason to complain of the exagge-
rated language used by the noble lord himself.to-night.
The noble lord has been free to-night in hurling imputa-
tions against us. Nov, I beg to tell the noble lord that he
was wholly inaccurate, as far as I remember, in his quota-
tion from a speech of Lord Derby's. He said that when
Lord Derby acceded to office, he did justice to the satis-
factory condition in Which he found this country was
placed ; and tee noble lord evidently intended to draw a
broad contrast between the language of Lord Derby and
that of my right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer.
Now, Lord Dery did speak, no doubt, as he always
speaks,e
ad
ce nofroaehrigphe-crunihnadredoigreenumtlesmtaannee,
gentleman.
circumstances, and
He
gave credit to his predecessors wherever he thought they
deserved credit. But what was the passage to which the
noble lord has referred ? It was a passage that did justice
to the condition in which he found our army. (Hear.) L ird
theto spirit
Ofa
Derby said that, considering the state of our foreign rela-
tions, he felt some anxiety with regard to the condition of
the army, and that he was happy to acknowledge that he
found it better than he had expected, or, to use his own
words, that he found it " numerically respectable." That
is the phrase which the noble lord the member for Tiverton
has twisted into an acknowledgment of the prosperous
state of England under his Government: But it appears
that, as regards the immediate point now at issue, Lord
Derby paid no compliment to his predecessors on the state
of our foreign relations. (Hear.) But Ido not wish to
continue to trespass on the indulgence of the house. I be-
lieve that this attack, founded on an accidental phrase in
an after-dinner speech, is too paltry a mode of carrying on
a political warfare tojustify any further paste of the public
time. There is only one other point to which I will refer.
partlat his
h
I will ask the house whether they think that the noble
lord is the man of all others who has a right to make this
complaint paovl iet incoa
tl
opponents?
forgotten, and I doubt whether any of those with whom I
have the honour to act have forgotten, the language in
f harsh
begrs h
to languagetellth e on
nobletheord otfh
which he thought fit to indulge one year ago in an address
to the electors of Tiverton. (Hear.) That was not an
after-dinner speech ; -it was not an oration delivered in a
moment of excitement— (hear, hear)—it was a letter deli-
berately written in the retirement of his library ; and in
that latter. he noble lord thought it becoming in him to
state that those who ont-voted him on the China question
were willing to make the degradation and humiliation of
their country a stepping-stone to office. (Loud cries of
" Hear.") The noble lord said this evening that some
portion of the language of my right hon. friend was a libel
on his political opponents. Now, I am not ono of those
who like to use hard words in this house, and I think the
noble lord will admit that I am n)t in the habit of doing
B ; but I tell the noble lord that I thought at the time,
and that I think still, this phrase was the most libellous
and the moat calumnious that was ever used by a public
man. (Hear, hoar.) But when Parliament assembled we
did not into rupt the coure of public bus'
mess by complain-
ing of that charge ma-le by the noble lord. It is true that
my noble friend at present at the head of the Foreign-
office 'wrote a very iradig,nant rebuke of that insult, but on
the meeting of Parliament we did not think it deserving
of our notice. It appears to me that the noble lord, after
having used that languego, was the last min who had any
right to come down to this house and to complain of the
expressions used by my right hon. friend. I defy the noble
lord, if he searches the
speeches
of my right lion, friend
from one end to the other, to find in it anything half so
offensive and so unjustifi ,blo as that dial-60. (Hear.) I
will not further occupy the time of the house. I hope this
subject will now be allowed to drop. I trust that after the
time that has been already wasted in this party struggle--
this mere scramb!e for place, we shall be allowed to proceed
with the public business. I think we have this day re-
ceived intelligence which ought to read
duty of addressing ourselves to the consideration of public
affairs, instead of prolonging the contests of party. We
have this day received news from India which may well
make us anxious—l do not say which ought to make us
despond—God forbid ! but which no reflecting man can
read without feeling that the time has come when the Go-
vernment of this country ought to direct its undivided at-
tentitsn to the state of public affairs. (Hear, hear ) Lot me
say further, that I believe there is not a heart in England
that does not ache at the present tidings from ludia. We
have just lost one of the noblest spirits—one of the bravest
men that ever did honour to any country. (Loud cries of
"Hear, hear.") I think thatjthe feelings which such an
event must awaken ought to create in us all a disinclination
to waste our time in mere patty conflicts. If we aro not
worthy to carry on the government of the country tell us
so at once and tell us so distinctly. (Cheers.) We can
then understand your course. But lot tho business of the
country be carried on by somebody ; let us discharge the
duties of our office, as we shall do if not interrupted by
those factious struggles ; or if you are not prepared to allow
us to perform the functions of a government, bring our
right to the position which we occupy to the test of a deli-
berate decision of the Commons of England. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL could not agree in the opinion that
those explanations were a waste of time, and the speech of
the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
was onef which imperatively called for explanation before
the house proceeded to vote those estimates for the current

year, which were usually regarded as votes of confidence in
the Ministry of the day. The statements made in that
speech very naturally provoked discussion, for if founded
on misstatements, which ho considered they were, they
ought to be fairly explained. The explanation which had
now been given was, that the risk of war was not incurred
during the time the late Government was in power, but
after the time when the present Government acceded to
office. This most materially affected the nature of the
statement made in the speech at Aylesbury. (Hear, hear.)
Ho believed that the Emperor of the French, when
the state of the law was fairly explained to him respect-
ing the punishment of assassination, with his usual good
sense 0.7.-proseed himself satisfied with the assurance that
the Government would endeavour to give effect to the
existing law. (Hear, hear.) Where, ho would ask, was
this carrot The right hon. gentleman had said that it
was not in that house ; whore then was it ? Upon this
subject he should like to have had sortie information, but
non() he had given to the house. With respect to the vote
of want of confidence, which the right hon. gentleman the
First Lord of the Admiralty had suggested should be
brought forward, ho believed that it was the opinion of
the noble lord the member of Tiverton that it would not
be to the interest of the Liberal party that the attempt
should be made at once to remove the present Government
from office. He did not think that the late proceedings
on the proclamation of Lord Ellenborough was a good party
move, but the steps which were taken with reference to
were imperatively called for, ashe considered an "abo-
minably bad despatch." (Hear. ) He should not be sur-
prised if Government should now say that it was too late
to go on with the India Bill this session. If that was the
intention of the Government he hoped the Government
would say at once. He must say that this did not give
him much confidence in the Conservative character of the
Government. He was not very impatient about reform
(hear, hear)—because he felt that wo were sure of obtain-
ing sooner or later whatever reforms the people were de-
termined to have—(hear, hear)—but when he found this
Conservative Government going by fits and starts he was
as much puzzled and alarmed as if ho should see •the
Speaker in his groat State coach when on the way to attend
her Majesty at Buckingham Palace, suddenly start, off in
the contrary direction. (A laugh.) Such was his impres-
sion as to this Conservative Government. (Hear.) The
original proposal of Government as to the five members
for towns in the Indian council was hardly even a Radical
measure, it approached commuuism—(hear, hear)--and
when he saw the Chancellor of the Exchequer departing
so much from all precedent and from the dignity of his
office, as he had done in his late speech, ho was alarmed
not lest Government should be too Conservative, but lest,
by their recklessness, they should imperil the security of
the State (hear, hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE.—The speeches we have heard from
the noble lord the member for Tiverton and the noble lord
the member for London remind one forcibly of the relation
between Castor and Pollux. The one rose when the other
set. (A laugh.) The conjunction would appear to be an
ominous one. It was thought last week that the noble
lord the member for Tivertem had gone into the country
to repose upon his Parliamentary laurels; but it seems
that he temporarily disappeared from among us only that
he might favour us with the results of his illustrious re-
tirement. The noble lord the member for London is
afflicted with apprehension as to the policy of the present
Ministry. He thinks it moves sometimes too fast, at
other times too :low, and if it would only maintain the
happy medium of "old constitutional Whiggery" no
doubt it would receive the noble lord's approving smile.
(A laugh.) The noble lord cannot be accused of having
gone too fast, because he did not go at all (laughter) ; and
on several questions of great public interest his puny
efforts at legislation have, to use his own expression, left
a legacy of mischief behind them which it would be a
difficult task for a body of sensible men to rectify. (Hear,
hoar.) My right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admi-
ralty has truly said that if you think the great interests
of the country are in jeopardy under an incompetent Go-
vernment, you can bring forward a motion to displace
them, and restore the noble lord the member for Tiverton
to that position in which he so lately secured the good
opinion of this house, and, what is better, the universal
approbation of the country. (A. laugh.) The noble lord
the member for London now says, it is shocking that such
a despatch as that of Lord EllenbOrough should have been
made public, but that the error had been atoned for by
the resignation of that noble earl, and that there the
matter might have been allowed to drop. If that is the
noble lord's opinion certainly he did not carry it out in
the late debate.

Lord J. RUSSELL.—I did not say that that was my
opinion, but that it was the opinion of some.
Mr. WHITESIDE.—I had thought that I might class
the noble lord himself in his dignified category of "some "
—(a laugh)—but certainly after Lord Elleuborouglers resig-
nation the adverse motion was persevered with, and its
advocates would have presSed it to a conclusion if they
had not trembled in their skins at its impending result.
(Laughter.) From that result her Majesty's Government
had not shrunk, and the withdrawal of the resolution cer-
tainly (lid not take place at their instance. I think my
right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was per-
fectly justified in the expression which he used relative to
li the support rendered to the Government on that occasion
1 by gentlemen who do not agree with its general principles,
and I cannot regard the remarks of the noble lord the mem-
ber for Tiverton on this point as characterised by the best
taste. Every man who can appreciate sound argument
and high eloquence must appreciate the powerful address
of the right hon. member for Carlisle, the hon. and learned
member fur Sheffield, and the hon. member for Birming-
ham. But I ask the noble lord, laying aside forms and
phrases, and looking for a moment at matters of substance,
to listen to a passage from the letter of the Calcutta cor-
respondent of the nines, from which he will be able to
judge whether, after all, the views contained in Lord
Ellenborough's despatch were very far wrong :
" I presume the Oude proclamation reached you some
time since. Lest it should not, I enclose it here. The pro-
clamation has not been withdrawn or softened, but Ur.
Montgomery (our Commissioner in Ondej has received
carte blanche to deal with each case as he chooses,"
What does Mr. Montgomery do ? He sets aside your con-
fiscatory proclamation, and his course is to compound with
the native aristocracy. That is exactly the contrary of your
proclamation. (" No, no," and " Yes.") I say '' Yes,"
because your argument was this :—" We don't mean to
deal with the village proprietors, but with the great nobles
and the aristocracy." And how does this man of sense,
who is, I believe, a countryman of mine, proceed? (A.
laugh.) He compounds with the aristocracy, and here is
the result :

" His course is to compound with tho aristocracy, and
the landholders, finding that the chief gives them their
property, are coming to him fast."

o That if he had acted on your proclamation, we can easily
conjecture the result. He followed the policy suggested by
Lord Ellenborough, and I am sure there is too much justice in
this house to condemn a statesman for words, if in substance
he was right. The letter from which I have quoted proceeds :
.‘ There is, however, little hope of the pacification of Oude
for some months. We hold only the city, and that we are
compelled to fortify again. I would only mention that the
North-West officials, so long devoted to the village system,
are everywhere recanting their opinions. They admit that the
native aristocracy is essential to our own secur.ty—that the
zemindareo system has preserved Bengal, and that without
permitting landholders to grew permanent peace is almost
impossible.
(Cheers.) That was the argument of Lord Ellenborough's de-
spatch, and now it has received its confirmation. With regard
to the ease of the Cagliari, I have read the correspondence of
' December last, which the right hon, member for Oxford Uni-
versity rightly said gave Sardinia a fair claim to call upon
England to befriend her. If hon. gentleman will have the
curiosity to look into the legal opinions and the facts stated
in the papers on the table, they will see that the despatch m
question is unlike all the correspondence that precedes it, and
that it must have been written by some other person than the
individual from whom all the previous communicatio Os pro-
ceeded. I allude to the despatch which asks whether Sar-
dinia will adopt a different course from that which she had
hitherto pursued ; and the remarks I have made is a fair cri-
ticism arising upon the document itself. The noble lord the
member f r Tiverton asks how my right hon. friend came to
make such a speech aft,r dinner. Did the noble lord himself
never make an after-dinner speech ? (A laugh.) It cannot be
forgotten that, on the sth November last, ho made a speech
at the Mansion-house, in which he challenged France and the
whole of Europe to mortal combat—(laughter) - declaring
that if any foreign nation thought we were not ready for battle
because our troops had been sent to India, he begged to
assure them they were in error, fmr he was quite prepared to
engage in conflict with them. Aud so the noble lord was. (A
laugh.) If ever a Minister escaped f om half-a-dozen votes of
censure which ought to have been pronouuced upon him, it was
the noble lord, The noble lord says he is familiar with foreign
affairs. Of course we can only be guided by the official
documents laid before us. But how the Minister who en-
dorsed the conduct of Lord Clarendon in signing at the Pal is
Conferences the protocol directed against the freedom of the
Belgian press should have escaped the indignant censure of a
British Barliament has always filled me with amazement.
(Hear, hear ) The noble lord said that the circumstances in
which Lord Canning was placed ought to have been taken
into account, inasmuch as he had only 400 men to hold the
country between Calcutta and Dinapore. No doubt this
ought to be taken into account ; but who left Lord Canning
in that defenceless state ? Why, the Government of the noble
lord, which directed our troops to carry on a -war with Persia,
the object of which nobody ever understood—not even the
noble lord himse f. (A laugh.) The effect of the China war,
of which the noble lord boasts so much, was to leave Calcutta
without the protection of a single ship. When Mr. Layard
asked for an explanation of the grounds on which the Persian
war was undertaken, the noble lord told us something about
an epistle from the Shah which was not exactly couched in
the style of the " Polite Letter Writer," and he managed,
with his usual adroitness, to turn the laugh upon his inter
rogator, but he never condescended to give the house any in-
telligible explanation of the origin of that war, (Hear, hear.)
The consequence was that that war, like every other war
entered into without justice, entailed not on'y the loss of
blood and trc +sure upon this country, but pro luced serious
troubles and dangers in othorparts of our empire. The noble I
lord boasts in a triumphant manner of the condi ion in which
he left the affairs of the country when he quitted office ; but
when ho spoke in so triumphant a tone he scorned to forgot lie
was driven from office —that lie had incurred the censure and
disapproval of this house because lie had not replied to a de_
s rttch which implied that assassination w s favoured in this
con .try, but, ou the contrary, accepted the insult, (Hear.) I
was myself a party to the transaction which then took place. I
heard the defence of the noble lord, and I am bound to say
that, after the vote of censure which this house passed, it
does not become the noble lord to boast of the skill and suc-
cess with widch he conducted the affairs of the nation with
regard to France. Such a boast is a reflection on the wisdom
(the House of Commons. (Hear.) I must say Ido not think
the noble lord has much improved the positi in taken up on
Friday night by the noble lord the member for the City of
London, and I think that if the noble lord and his friends
opposite can do ao better than they have done in making this
attack, their wiser course would be to give us some of those
great and brilliant measures which they are always promising
to bring in, but which we are so seldom permitted to see, and
leave the house to judge of the value of their measures when
they aro brought forward. (Cheers.)
Mr. J. A. KINGLAKE said it was en the nth Feb., a fort-
night before the la-t Government Ift office, that Wait was
released f. orn prison, and before that Government left office
Lord Clarendon had written a letter pressing for Watt's libe-
ration on the ground that his return to England would favour
his mental health. When Watt was sent home it was after
time Ire ent Government came into power, but in terms that
followed the desp Act' of Lord Clarendon, showing that it was
owi g to that despatch. He was astonished that Government
claimed the merit of the liberation of those men, which had
rather been in spite of Government.
Mr. FITZGERALD could well understand thlt the hon.
gentleman who had taken great interest in the question
should deny merit to the Government and take credit to
himself. (Hear, hear.) But a slight consideration would show
that it was owing to the exertions cf the present Government
that the men were released.
Mr. LINDSAY found a report in the papers that certain
American ships had been fired on by British cruisers, and
that the British officer had boardea twelve American and one
Spanish vessel in a Cuban port, and demanded an examina-
tion of their papers. The port was not a small creek, but a

. .
• .
os
0
——
Colchester
Harwich 46,124 405
Leigh
Ualdon 1217 5 j

NORWICH-MAy 29.

.

- 1 "
- _ 30

1 370

The corn trade of this district has been quiet during the
past week. There was more firmness apparent to-day, the
sales made being effected on rather easier t arms than on
this day se'unight. Little doing in barley, oats, beans,
an,l peas. Flour, 28s to 28s iid per sack fmnia the miller.
White wheat, 463 to 488 ; red, 40s to 458.; barley. 325 3d.
It is stated that the wheats in Norfolk never looked more
flourishing, and with a continuance of moderately dry
weather a good yield may be anticipated.