The Sun.
London, England, 1867-02-09 00:00:00

MITERIAL PAU

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAST EvENTNa.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
at 5 o'clock.

RAILWAY PROCEEDINGS.

Lord REDESDALE made some explanations personal
to himself, in reply to a pamphlet published by Mr. France,
in reference to railway proceedings before select commit-
tees"-of Parliament, and declared there was not a single
word of truth in the pamphlet.

HER MAJESTY'S REPLY TO THE ADDRESS.
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH intimated that he had
presented the Address of the House of Lords to her Ma-
jesty, and he begged to read her Majesty's gracious reply
thereto, and to move that it be entered on the records of
the house.

The resolution was agreed to.
TIIE NAVY.

The Duke of SOMERSET moved for a return of the
number of ships added to the Royal Navy (stating the
tonnage of such vessels) from 1860 to 1865 inclusive. He
referred to the impressions conveyed by published state-
ments that the navy was left by the late Government in a
very inefficient state, and said ho believed the returns
would show that during the last six years they had as
many ships constructed as was usual and consistent
with circumstances. There were during the last six years
140 vessels constructed. He explained that the advances in
science, and the change in the mode of constructing ships,
had perhaps induced the late Board of Admiralty not to
build more ships than was absolutely necessary. When he
came into office there was not a single ironclad. It was
quite clear, then, they were getting to larger guns, and the
vessels had to be built, in considetation of what guns
they could carry. He remarked that, having regard to the
improvements which were so rapidly taking place in the
construction of iron-plated ships, his object had been to
avoid rushing prematurely into a vast expenditure, which
the experience of a very short time might prove to be use-
less, whilst he maintained the service in such a state of
efficiency as to be ready for unforeseen emergencies. He
contended that he had left the navy in a condition to meet
any exigency that was likely to arise, and declared himself
ready to submit this administration to the most searching
inquiry.

The Earl of DERBY was not surprised at the noble duke
taking the earliest opportunity of vindicating his conduct
at the Admiralty from charges in which he (Lord Derby),
for one, had never concurred. On the contrary, ho was
ready to bear strong testimony to the energy and ability
of the noble duke whilst he presided over the department.
Earl GREY censured the policy of the Admiralty with
respect to building new ships, which he attributed, how-
ever, rather to the unreflective pressure of the House of
Commons than to the fault of the Government.
THE PROPOSED REFORM DEMONSTRATION.

Earl of DUDLEY, in rising to ask what were the in-
tentions of the Government with respect to the proposed
trade procession on Monday next, said he was fully aware
of the delicacy of the subject to which he was about to ad-
dress himself. He was at same time so sensible of the evils
of such an assemblage taking possession of the streets of
the metropolis that he deemed it to be his duty to bring
the matter under the notice of the house. He had no doubt
the majority of their lordships would feel with him that it
was very much to be regretted any member should feel
called upon to take such a course, and he must confess
that after the announcement which had been made by
her Majesty's Ministers on the first day of the session, he
had hoped that those who took the most active part in pro-
moting the intended demonstration would have come to
the conclusion that there was no necessity for making it,
fora most distinct promise had then been given on the part
of the Government that they would lose no time in deal-
ing with the great question of Reform. He was, under
these circumstances, greatly grieved to find that the leaders
of the movement should, instead of waiting to learn what
course Ministers might take on the question, deem it-neces-
sary to speak out beforehand with respect to it. He was,
-however, unwilling to say a single word which could lead
to anything like irritation, seeing that the public mind was
at the present moment sufficiently excited without hearing
a word uttered in either House of Parliament to inflame
the popular feeling. He was one of the last to deny to the
people the most perfect right to meet whenever they chose
to discuss any subject which they pleased, but then that
was quite a different thing from the procession with which
we were threatened on Monday next, which, in order to
assemble in the Agricultural-hall in Islington, it was deemed
desirable should proceed from a central point by a circuitous
route through the most populous parts of the town, as it
were for the purpose of intimidation. (Hear, hear.) It was
not,in his opinion, required for any object of free discussion
that persons should come from the north, east, or west of
London to meet in one central square and march to the
place in which the meeting was to be held, as was proposed.
He felt bound at the same time to add that he had no
doubt the intentions of the promoters of the demonstration
were peaceable. A certain number of those who were to
form the procession were, it appeared, to be sworn iu as
special constables, to the extent of six out of every 100 ;
but such a procession must nevertheless cause very con-
siderable inconvenience, and it was quite evident that the
line of march had been arranged with the view of propuc-
ing a certain effect on the clubs and the west-end of the
town. He was, under those circumstances, he thought,
justified in looking on the demonstration in the light of an
evil, which, having once been admitted as a precedent, it
would on future occasions become more difficult to deal with.
He trusted, therefore, that the Government, who had been
in more direct communication—he would not say unwisely
—with the leaders of the demonstration than any previous
Ministry, would be able to inform their lordships that they
had come to some understanding with them on the point,
so that the inconvenience to which he referred might be
obviated. After all, if the proposed procession were per-
mitted now, and even though it should have peaceable re-
sults, thii evil would at last become so enormous that it
would be necessary to stop it. He therefore hoped that
their lordships might hear from the Government some-
thing which would at all events encourage them to trust
that the proposed procession would not be carried out. He
should be the last person to raise any question which
would at all embarrass the Government. The course they
had announced their intention to adopt was, ho felt, the
only one which they could pursue; and he was far from
wishing it to be thought that he doubted that they were
fully sensible of the responsibility which rested upon
them. But as they were now within a comparatively few
hours of the assembling of the contemplated procession he
was convinced that the Government must have made up
their minds on the subject ; and he, therefore, believed
there could be no objection to his putting the question of
which he had given notice.
The Earl of DEBBY—My lords, I can assure the noble
earl that no apology was required from him for asking the
question which he has just put to me. There can be no
doubt that this question is one of very serious importance ;
and I can assure him, also, that he cannot regret more
deeply than Ido that those who have the conduct of the
vast organisation which has been put in action with so much
pains and care for several months past should not have
taken a more correct and a sounder view of the duty they
owe to the public and the interests of the country generally
than to persist in holding arprocession which, although I am
bound to say it is strictly within the law, yet is certainly
liable to produce, .and must produce, vary great incon-
venience, and, perhaps, also, acts of illegality. (Hear,
hear.) But the noble earl does her Majesty's Government
too mach honour in supposing that their powers of persua-
sion are such as to induce these gentlemen to forego the
advantage of being allowed• to display in the streets an im-
mense organisation,with marshals and sub-marshals, with
stars, scarves, banners,and an exhibition of the most perfect
military discipline. We certainly cannot pretend to•such
influence with the leaders of this movement as to have
persuaded them, in deference to any opinions of ours, or to
any measures which we are likely to introduce on the sub-
ject of Reform, to desist from the course on which they
have determined. I entirely believe that these gentlemen
desire, as far as they can, that the procession may be per-
fectly peaceable and orderly ; but the noble earl will allow
me to say that he is in error when he supposes that a cer-
tain number of each of these bodies are to be sworn in as
special constables. It is not within the lafr that they can
be sworn in as special constables; for no man can be so
sworn in except upon sworn information to the effect that
the person who swears such information believes that a
breach of the peace is imminent, and that in order to guard
against such breach of the peace he tenders his services
to preserve the peace. Now, it is quite clear that these
gentlemen, coming forward and saying, I believe most
sincerely that they are acting with the most peaceable in-
tentions, could not be expected to swear that the assem-
blage of delegates and of various other bodies which they
are organizing will be such an assemblage as endangers
the public peace. But when in the heart of a crowded
metropolis processions of, it may be, 40,000, 50,000, 60,000,
or 70,000 men gather and occupy busy thoroughfares for
a considerable portion of the day, it, is impossible that the
idle and vagabond class on such occasions should not cause
much inconvenience and some danger. (Hear, hear.) And
I would have the gentlemen who undertake the conduct of
these vast processions to recollect that although the pro-
cession itself may not be illegal, yet it may become illegal
through the circumstances attending it. (Cheers.) And in
that case those who so recklessly expose the metropolis to
danger cannot escape from the responsibility they thus
incur. (ricer.) They must and they will be heldpersonally
liable for any loss to property or person which may result
from their acts. There can he no doubt that the proposed
meeting will cause very considerable obstruction of the
ordinary traffic, and great inconvenience, and also great
loss to the operatives themselves, who will lose a day's
wages, and also to the shopkeepers; and all for what ? For
the purpose, as they state, of making a demonstration in
favour of Reform. But her Majesty's Government, as the
nobld earl says, are quite prepared to deal with that ques-
tion, and bring it forward for the consideration of Paths-
rnent. And hare I must remark that demonstrations of this
kind little conduce to promote that calmness with which
so grave a question ought to be submitted to Parliament.
(Hear, hear.) Moreover, if we are to believe the asser-
tions of the leaders of the vast multitudes who are about
to assemble in this way, the object they have in view is One