The Sun.
London, England, 1858-02-12 00:00:00

EDUCATION (ENGLAND.)

Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to move the following reso7u-
tion :—" That an humble address be presented to her Ma.
jesty, that she will be graciously pleased to issue a commis-
sion to inquire into the present state of popular education in
England, and whether the present system is or is not suffi-
cient for its object; and to consider and report what changes,
if any, are required for the extension of sound and cheap
cletaentary instruction to all classes of the people." He said
he Was Personally reluctant again to invite the attention of
the IT" to the question of national education, and he hoped
the house had to hear _ use would believe that in doing so he was only actuated
by a sense of public d ,• •
that though this"' uty. He well knew the disinc 'nation
by th.
Bunt,
pers a subject repeatedly brought forward
but he trusted they would bear in mind
the highest sense sense' it
fellow-subject Inmostsubmit
it was a subject directly affecting in
bealing in a partywsas no Party subject, nor of any political
val of a newly-eleeted Horse of numerous. ar.d helpless class of our
ohfr e
Commons, ?reposition
hfee thersh ou
should
pnroot-
enter into a detailed sta 13,:inent as formerly, with a view to
establish the educational deficiency that exist: d in this coun-
try. The statements he
had forth on a former occasion with
respect too. thatoii deficiency
contradicted,etnase his argument
f
presentienoccasionneer tb: deficiency on them. On a
goarrzer occasion he referred to the
of Preston,
amongst them to the
a , l ai
Rev,n 8
fir o f
statements
statement ofof theehClay,
40 per cent, of the prisoners comrnitted rston, who stated that
ignorant of the name of our Saviour, ane7Pfrrestonigaol were
cent. were ignorant of the came of the Queer 116e0alo 7°
per
the ignorance of an immense number of the children in
London workhouses, as well as those in the workhnoussen the
Birmingham, Manchester, and other large places, obtained
from from the official statements of the inspectors of schools. The
Dean of Hereford also spoke of the great ignorance that
existed in Bath and Wells, Wiltshire, and other places, and
as they had not been contradicted he (Sir J. Pakington)
had a right to say they were correct. That rev. gentleman
often lamented the ignorance that prevailed both in the rural
districts and the towns, the want of schools, anti the illeffi.

ciency of those in existence. He had been asked what was
the necessity of a commission of inquiry, when all the infor-
mation they desired was to be found in the reports of the
Government inspector—but his answer was that he needed
no stronger evidence in support of an inquiry than the re-
ports themselves. The first report he called attention to,
contained in the blue-book of last year, was that of the Rev.
Mr. Stewart, the Government inspector for Cambridgeshire,
Huntingdonshire, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, and Bucking-
hamshire, at pages 446 and. 447, wherein he spoke of the dif-
ficulty that existed in remote agricultural districts for the
advaneement of education, and the insufficiency of the Go-
vernment grants for the demands of the various districts re.
quiring help. The Rev, Mr. Wood, the Government inspec-
tor for Berkshire, gave a similar statement; and Mr; Mit-
chell, the Government inspector for Norfolk, Suffolk, and
Essex, reported that out of 205 schools, 41 were excellent,
35 were so bad that it would be a great aivantage to stop
them, and 129 were more or less efficient—some progressing,
others retrograding. He did not know how the Government
proposed to meet his motion, but he had based it on the re-
ports of their inspectors, whom he presumed were trust-
worthy, and would not be contradicted or disputed by the
Government, (Hear.) In his (Sir J. Pakington's) own neigh-
bourhood, Mr. Bellair expressed his regret at the partial ex-
tent of education there. In very many places, both in town
and country the schools were inefficient, and it was much to
be desired that an inquiry should take place into the edu-
cational deficiencies of the country, from the statements being
so vague and contradictory that it was almost impossible to
arrive at a proximation of the truth. The right hon. baronet
read a letter he had that morning received from the Rev.
Dlr. Stone, of Bethnal-green, stating that a school in the
new parish of St. James's, Bethnal-green, for 200 boys, had
been obliged to be closed for two years for want of funds,'and
there was no chance of its being re-opened. In reference to
the funds of schools, Mr. Watkins, inspector of York, on a
former occasion, stated that he had divided England into
twenty-two educational districts, and there were only two out
of that where the expenditure did not exceed the income, In
1855-56 the excess of expenditure over income was 6 per cent.
and in 1856.57 it had increased to 7 or 8 per cent. Another
point which attracted attention was the early age at which
children left school—an overwhelming proportion of them
were under 10 years of age, and what was worse the number
increased from year to year. From a return furnished him
by the Secretary to the Educational Board, he found that the
children at school, above 10 years of age from 1850 to 1857
inclusive, was 37 and a fraction per cent. ; in 1852 it was 39
and a fraction, but every other year it had decrea- ecl until
it had sunk from 37 and a fraction to 27 and a fraction.
From " Johnson's Atlas of Physical Geography," he found
that:out of a list of 17 countries, showing the estimated per-
centage of the population between 7 and 14 years of age re-
ceiving instruction in those different countries, he was sorry
to find England stood tenth on the list—(hear)—the highest
was Saxony, where, within a slight fraction, the whole of the
children of the above ages were at school. In the United
States and New England, they were 95 per cent ; in Holland
91 per cent. ; and then came Prussia, Switzerland, Denmark,
Sweden and Norway, Belgium, Austria, and then England,
which only amounted to 45 per cent. The same contrast was
presentelby other portions of our own country, for Scotland
stands very far above England in that respect. In Canada
an admirable system of education existed, and in Australia
the people were most anxious to establish a sound system of
education that should reach all parts of the population,
The question of education was regarded less within the
walls of that house than any part of the kingdom which
he attributed to their being too prone to devote
their attention to party struggles than to direct
their attention to those matters that only affected the welfare
and interests of the people apart from such party struggles.
(Hear, hear.) A strong feeling was entertained out of doors
on the question, not by noisy politicians, who were striving
to promote political changes, but an important class of persons
who constituted public opinion on this question, and to which
he deferred ; in support of which he referred to the educa-
tional conference held last summer, and presided over by
Prince Albert, for the devising means for preventing children
leaving school at an early ago. He (Sir J. Pakington) believed
they must look to the half-time system for a remedy both in
towns and agricultural distriets. He considered it could be
carried out successfully, and he alluded to its adoption by
the hon, member for Nottingham and Lord Hatherton in the
country districts. He also appealed to the noble lords (Rus-
sell and Stanley), and also to the hon. members for Hudders-
field in reference to the interest expressed in the question of
education, at a meeting for the promotion of social science,
presided over by Lord Brougham, If he had established
that the educational state of the country was unsatisfactory,
and out of doors great interest was felt in the question, he
wasjustified in asking the house to join him in his endeavour
to solve this difficult question ; and then arose the question
in what manner it could best be done. In asking for an in-
quiry into the subject, he did not consider he was departing
from his former expressed opinion that the house was compe-
tent to do so ; but it was perfectly clear the Government were
not disposed to do so, as he thought they ought (and in say.
ing that he begged to remark that he was not censuring the
Government, because any other Government would feel
equally indisposed to do so.) (Hear.) In 1855 and 1857 he
attempted to legislate on the question, but he failed from acci-
dental causes. In 1855 he was unable to go to a division and
take the sense of the house en the question from want of
time, and in 1857 he was prevented by the dissolution of Par-
liament. But in the intervening year the noble lord the
member for London brought forward his bill, which was de-
feated, more from feelings of opposition and prejudice rather
than reason and argument, He believed that had tke house
gone to a division, though the pricciples were sound, they
would have been defeated. As the question now stood there
was no immediate prospect of legislation, and the question
was, whether they should lean it as it now was, or whether
they might fairly and reasonably expect that the present sys-
tem under the Committee of Council and grants of Parlia-
ment, would so grow and expand that they might look to that
system as sufficient for the educational requirements of the
country. He was as conscious as any man could be of the
great advantages derived from the Committee of Council, and
had hailed with satisfaction their grants, and the extent to
which they had fostered and encouraged education. In 1856
the noble lord the member for London said it was not the ob-
ject of those who founded the system of the committee of
council that that system should supersede all local efforts, but
that it should rather form a nucleus of an educational move-
ment, In that statement ho (Sir J. Pakington) concurred :
but he still considerd it questionable whether that system
could be carried much further. He believed that for the future
the amount of the grant would be increased by 100,0001,, but
if the system was to be extended, the number of inspectors
would have greatly to be increased. Would not this augmen-
tation lead to centralisation ? (Hear, hear, from Mr. Henley,)
He doubted whether the powers of the committee of council
were not greater now than they ought to be. The expenditure
of so large a sum of money, spread over so largo an area, must
inevitably, he thought, baffie a proper supervision. Minute
and complicated arrangements connected with the distribution
of the grant would not work advantageously. The present
system ho might characterise as half a system, and he should
like to see it more nearly approximated to the poor-law sys-
tem, into which local superintendence largely entered. In-
quiry, he contended, was desirable on these grounds, but
it was also called for by reason of the length of time which
had elapsed since the question of publio education had been
the subject of Parliamentary inquiry. There had been inquiry
in 1818 at the instance of Lord Brougham, whose exertions
deserved all praise. Inquiry was also made in 1834-5 ; but
since 1852, when a committee sat on the Manchester and Sal-
ford Bill, public investigation had not taken place. The last
committee had dealt rather with a subject of local than of
national importance. Believing that inquiry was loudly called
for, he had the alternative of a commission or of a committee.
By asking for a committee he might, perhaps, have obtained
a greater share in directing its deliberations, and pressing
them forward; but the collection of evidence was a matter in-
volving considerable time, and all such inquiries were more or
less tinged with the opinions and views of individual mem-
bers. A commission, on the ether hand, would prosecute its
labours with the assistance of Government. There was a con-
siderable analogy between the reference to the Poor-law Com-
mission of 1833 and that which he now asked the house to
grant. Much advantvge had arisen from the former commis-
sion, the Government of the day having immediately founded
a measure of lasting benefit upon its report. The only differ-
ence between the former commission and the ono ho asked was
that the former was the spontaneous.aet of the Minister of the
Crown, whilst the present commission was asked by one not
an habitual supporter of the Government of the day. Ho
hoped the Government would rise superior to any considera-
tion of this kind, and that they would grant, in the great in-
terests of popular education, the commission. (Cheers.)
Lord STANLEY seconded the motion,
Mr. HARDY complimented the right honourable baronet
the member for Droitwich upon the moderation which
had marked his speech ; but the real question at issue was,
whether the present system of education had gradually
advanced that boon in the country, and whether as much
progress had been made as (*aid reasonably be expected.
He believed that education had ramified of late years, and
that in proportion as the educating class improved the con-
dition of the poorer classes would also improve. The present
commissioners of education were obtaining more knowledge
respecting education, and adding to the number and improv-
ing the est aracter of our schools. They had already as much
information as was wanted and were not to rest their opinions
on the report of a commission. They could best improve edu-
cation by their own efforts in their respective localities. If,
as was said, the matter was not ripe for legislation, the rea-
son was the country did not want legislation.
Mr. HADFIELD moved an amendment to the resolution
to the effect that the commission should be appointed to in-
quire whether the education should be wholly secular or
wholly religious, or partly the one and partly the other; and
if religious, what religion they would recommend. The right
hon. baronet appeared alw Lys determined to make out that
there was a great want of education in the country. But what
were the facts? During the last year 544,000,0)0 letters of
all sorts passed through the Post-office, and this enormous
amount of c nfidence must afford evidence of how well the
people were educated, and if the existing system were con-
tinued for a few years longer, he felt confident that the num-
bers of letters pas,ing through the Post-offic 3 would not be
less than a thousand millions in the year. There were in the
different Sunday and day schools in the country not less than
3,591,000 scholars, and this out of a total p )pulation of
18,000,000. The number of scholars was greatly increasing,
and the next census would, he believed, exhibit a most sur-
prising increase in the number of teachers and scholars. The
increased circulation of the newspapers was also another proof
of the extent of education in the country, The Sunday schools
of the country were doing an immense amount of good, and
they would be seriously endangered by any act of the G rveru-
meat which would bring it into anything like opposition to
the conduct of those very excellent establishments, in which
the working classes felt so much interest, and in which they
reposed a large amount of confidence. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. GILPIN seconded the amendment.
Mr. ACKROYD expressed himself favourable to the pro-
posed commission, and thou4lat that such a mode of inquiry
would be mere preferable than one by means of a committee.
ntqouti
hr iee se
aoufs
e theof catedmu me
aitsisoi
no n,
hew o us
hl do n
lb
de
the right hon. baronet the member for Droitwich (Heap,)t Believing
attendedt wptilhtehaa that the
:fia giving his suppo t to the resolution of
t
Mr. A. B. HOPE could not make up his mind to believe
than an additi m of a bulky blue-book to the
any other .
that the practical effect of the proposed resolution would be
numerous other works of a similar class under which the
shelves of public and private libraries already groaned.
There was already a huge Tower of Babel of educational
literature, and the effect of the appoin ing of this commission
would be only to add another coping stone to the already
bulky
woulde as .. )
only il He
endorsebe I i e v believed
tthhea
pt
ri
ef
se thellt
commission
and useless
issionwe pile
reapp
oin(tHedea it.' leer.)
system of education, which had been found to work so well
and so practically.
Mr. RICHARDSON said that if the motion hail applied to
Ireland he should have given it his most strenuous opposi-
tion.

Mr. W. J. FOX said it had been assumed that the commis-
sion would come to certain conclusions and recommendations,
and then those conclusions and recommendations had been
vlll'urously assailed. Now he saw no reason at all why they
should anticipate such recommendation% This was a com-
mission Of "'quiz"-, and ho was content to wait the results of
that inquiry.

Mr. AIDLE ItLEY said the house had been anxious to hear
the opinions of the Government. When the right hon. baro-
net proposed his resolution he (Mr. Adderley) was called on
to weigh the proposition whether the present system of edu-
eatioa had been advantageous or detrimental, and he was in-
Present tO believe that the prenout syr
etera laa,t wOrkecl w©ll,