The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-12 00:00:00

THE FAIN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENIN.G; MAY 12, 1858

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT' I could have wished. I received a letter,—l don't now justice c fit, when we are still totally ignorant of the
remember its date, bet about the time Mr. V. Smith reasons which he himself is prepared to assign for the
received his letter. (Lord Ellenborough.—" After the issue o' f the proclamation. (Cheers,) It is this, and this
despatch had gone out.") That letter was of a private only, wish to impress on your lordships, namely, that
nature, but it referred to three or four snhjects of pub- we are bound to reserve our judgment altogether on the
lie interest which I wished to communicate to the noble questions of the proclamation. As far as I can at present
earl by reading it to him in the lobby. I am bound to judge, T might be inclined to disapprove the proclama
confess that I did not read all that I meant to have done, tion, but I know that men, far more intimately ac-
because after having read the first portion of the letter, (painted than lam with the state of India, believe the
and before I had finished what I intended to read to proclamation, even with the present information they
him, the noble earl gave me so interesting, but at the possess respecting it, to be right. a (Hear.) That being
same time so long an account of his views of the affairs the case, it is fair for ns, on the commonest principles
of India at that moment, that, after having made one or of justice, to suspend our judgment till we know Lord
two ineffectual attempts to get a hearing, I put the Canning's reasons for it. (Cheers.) I only wish to add
letter in my pocket in despair. (Laughter.) I may one word more. I cannot help thinking that a great
state with regard to the letter addressed to Mr. V. deal more is made of the non-communication by Mr.
Smith, that it arrived while he was engaged in Ireland Vernon Smith of a private letter than it deserves. (Hear.)
on a subject which interested both himself and the Lord- Because, what really is the fact ! My right hon. friend
Lieutenant. On returning to London he found a pre- received a letter announcing that the Governor-General
vote letter from Lord Canning, which had been delayed, had not had time to write an explanation on the subject
waiting for him. That letter was private, but it eon. of his proclamation. Mr. V. Smith did not know that
tamed a paragraph to this effect—l don't profess to give proclamation or its importance ; and, though it is greatly
the words,—" I have sent home a proclamation,—not to be regretted that he did not communicate the letter
one that I have issued, but which I mean to issue. I to the Government, yet it was quite natural that he
should have liked to send along with it an explanatory should not have done so, and in point of fact the Govern-
despatch by this mail, but every hour of this day is coon- ment would have learned nothing from the communica-
pied and I cannot do so." Now, could Mr. V. Smith tion but what they ought to have known without. (Hear.)
imagine that upon this intended proclamation—within an The Government received the draught of an intended
hour of its reception by her Majeety'sGovernment—there proclamation, but they had not received the proclama-
would be written one of the strongest censures ever sent tion as issued. Now, we know that the most important
out t (Cheers.) I admit it would have been better if Mr. State papers frequently undergo alteration between the
V. Smith had given even that meagre information to the time of their preparation and issue. (Hear.) We also
government, but he could merely have told them, "I know that the proper occasion for sending a full expla-
understand you have received Irene the Governor-Gene- nation of the views of the Indian Government in issuing
rat a proclamation which is to be issued, and I have re- so important a document is when they transmitted to
ceived a private letter which intimates that probably an England the procltmation as issued and informed the
explanatory despatch will be sent by the next mail." home Government that it bad been issued. Until the
What has happened is that Lord Canning, not having home Government received a despatch informing them
had time to send an explanatory despatch with the pro- that the proclamation had been actually issued, I say
clamation which he intended to issue, has deferred doing that in the absence of any private letter, we are bound
so until he sent home the modified proclamation which to presume that in due time some explanation will
has been issued, and I have no doubt the noble earl will arrive. Therefore, in point of fact, the non-communica-
see that explanatory despatch in the course of time. tion of the private letter which has been referred to left
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—The letter to the Government in ignorance of nothing which they
which the noble earl has alluded, enclosing the erode- were not bound to know without seeing that private
motion, was received on the 12th April. The answer was letter. (Hear, hear.)
not written till the 18th April. It was dated April 19 ; The Earl of DERBY—I will not enter into any dis-
and it was not sent off until April 26. There was, there- cussion of the merits of the proclamation as drawn up
fore, ample time for considering what the letter reflect- in the first instance, or as subsequently published ; but
ing upon the proclamation should contain, and also for I must say, in answer to the statement that the Govern-
further consideration after it was written, as has been ment were bound, after receiving the proclamation as
shown by my ',obi. Mend near me. Reflection only more intended to be issued, to wait before making any expla-
strongly induced me to think that it was absolutely ne- nation of their opinions until it was actually received as
cessary to send the letter as it was originally written. published, that I altogether dissent from that doctrine.
What lam accused of is not the writing of that letter. Earl GREY—I never made any statement that Go-
I have heard no one yet find fault with the letter, vernment might not express their opinions, but I said
neither have I yet heard any one defend the confiecatioi that they had a right to anticipate that an explanation of
of the proprietary rights of the landholders of Oude. The the circumstances under which the proclamation was
only question is—was it or was it not right to publish published was on its way and would in due time be
the letter which was written I As I understand the re-
received by them.
solution which was to be moved on Friday it relates to The Earl of DERBY—The fault which, I apprehend,
is found with the Government is that, on receiving the
that question only. Now, my lords, the publication of
proolamation intended to be published, they expressed
that letter was an act as wholly mine as the
writing of the letter. I take upon myself the whole re-
in a secret letter to the Governor-General their die-
sponsibility, and I will tell your lordships how it bap-
approval of it ; and, without intending to discuss the
proclamation, I must say that the Government were
pened that that publication] took place. Some ties
before I had written a letter in contemplation of undoubtedly of opinion that the issue of a proclamation
in which confiscation was made the general rule would
the capture of Lucknow, which was subsequently laid
upon the table, and which was published as soon produce the dangerous consequences, driving maul to
as we knew we were in possession of Lucknow, despair and inducing others to combine. (Cries of
"
in which I directed the Government of India, " Order I )
having exhibited their strength, to temper justice Earl GRANVILLE rose to order.—When the noble
earl rose, after the important declaration made by his
with generosity, to proclaim an amnesty, to disarm
the people, and wherever the amnesty was proclaimed to noble colleague, I thought he was going to give some
establish the ordinary administration of the law. I ap- explanation of a personal character, which lam sure
prehended obstruction to the Government in the execs- your lordships would have listened to with attention ;
tien cf these orders from subordinate officers, maddened but when the noble earl proceeds to discuss a matter
as I expressed it, by the scenes they had witnessed. I which we have already said we do not intend to argue at
desired the Government to persevere in doing what they this time, and to make a speech applicable to a motion
thought right, and I told them that is acting in that which is to come on towards the end of the week, I have
spirit they would have the unqualified support of the a right to say that the noble earl is not in order,
Government. (Cheers.) Soon afterwards I received this especially as he has already spoken. (Hear.)
proclamation, of which the only very important point The Marquis of SALISBURY rose to move the ad-
was that inflicting confiscation. [Lord Granville here
onrnment of the house, in order to allow the Earl of
made an observation across the table, which was moan-
Derby to address their lordships.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said, he would save
borough continued) to communicate by electric tele-
dible in the gallery.] How was it possible (Lord Ellen The
neeessity for a motion of adjournment by moving
graph I I said that soon after the letter to which I bave ;hat the order of the day hr the second reading of the
referred was published here I received this proclamation Chief Justice of Bombay Bill be discharged. (Hear,
which is a direct contradiction to the principles laid down and laughter.)
in the letter of which the noble earl opposite approved. The Earl of DERBY then proceeded. He said,—l
The principle of confiscation of the whole proprietary certainly was anxious after the statement made by my
noble friend to take an opportunity of expressing the co-
rights of the landowners of Oude was not clemency ; it
was inconsistent with amnesty; it was persecution after incidence of my concurrence, as far as I could concur
defeat ;it was contrary to the principles laid down in pith him, in the course he has adopted, and of explain-
the first letter, to the feelings of the Government, and to ing that point on which lam unable wholly to agree with
the principles upon which they had determined to act. him. I wish also to bear testimony to the manly and
When I read that proclamation I felt it my duty at once generous manner in which my noble friend—if he has
to express my own sentiments on the subject, which committed any indiscretion—has more than atoned for
were adopted by my noble friends. I should have been
that indiscretion, and done himself infinite honour.
(Cheer') I was proceeding to answer some observe-
.e,_ _Lo_ 100 e on the other aide. I thought
en worthy of a seat in this house if I had acted otherwise;
but I felt at the same time that it that proclamation
were really published as it stood before me, it was quite it was made a matter of complaint against us that, with-
impossible that my letter with respect to it should be out waiting fur explanations from the Governor-General,
withheld from the public. I knew that the moment the we hastened to express our disapproval of the proclama-
tion about to be issued. I say that if we did disapprove,
proclamation was published in this country questions
would be asked in Parliament, and that neither in this as was certainly the case, the tenour of that proclama-
house nor the other house could the answers be satisfac-
tion, and feared the effect it would have upon the popu-
tory without the publication of this letter, which we lation of India, it was our bounden duty not to lose a
could not resist. My lords, I did desire its publication single mail in expressing to the Governor-General our
—(cheers) —and I will tell you upon what grounds, apprehensions as to the consequences which might ensue.
Having informed the Government of India that I Such was the object of the despatch sent out by my noble
would remove all obstructions raised against them by friend the President of the Council on the 26th of April,
and I still think it is deeply to be regretted that be officers, and that I was determined they
tween the 19. h and the Nth my noble friend was not
should be assisted and supported in doing what they
thought right in the prosecution of principles of cle-
informed that explanations of the intended proclamation
inency, I was determined they should know—the gover-
might be expected to arrive by an early mail. (Hear.)
nose as well as the governed—that the Cabinet were
But your lordships must bear in mind that the despatch
resolved to enforce that system of clemency be the parson sent out on the 26th was intended to be, and was, a
who he might who noted in opposition to the principles
secret despatcb. (Hear, hear.) It communicated our ap-
thus laid dowe. I felt and still feel that letter is a roes-
prehensione to the Governor-General, and we hoped it
sage of peace to the people of India ; I hold that it lays would be in time to alter the determination to which he
down principles which, if not so laid down, never would had come ; but, after all, it did not contain a distinct
have been generally adopted throughout that country ;
injunction to Lerd Canning to recall or revoke his pro-
I know that it will offer conciliation to those who dread clamation. Far from it. It simply expressed our anxious
retribution—that it will compel all in office to act in the hops that in carrying into effect the doctrines put forth
spirit of the Government by which that letter was sent in his proclamation he would find it necessary and proper
out, and, therefore, for the public peace I desired that to mitigate their strictness and rigour. (Hear, hear.)
that letter should go forth. But I take to myself the Although the proclamation as we have since received
whole responsibility of having given publicity to the it does not go the length which I might desire in that
letter. I knew it was right to do so, and I did it at once. sense, yet undoubtedly one paragraph, which has been
I might very properly, no doubt, have taken the letter inserted since the receipt of the copy to which the de-
to the Cabinet, and in the Cabinet have asked the opi spatch of my noble friend the President of the Council
nions of my colleagues before deciding to make it public I applied, does materially modify the terms of the original
That might have been the right course—(hear)—but proclamation. (Hear, hear.)
that course I did not adopt; and, therefore, to accuse The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—Not with respect
my colleagues of any misconduct with respect to the to the principle of confiscation.
publication of that letter, is to raise a constitutional fie- The Earl of DERBY—My noble friend says not with
tion. lam responsible, and let me alone bear whatever regard to c mfiscation, but I hope and believe it must
censure may be attributed to the act of publication, I be the intention of the Governor-General, although un-
thought this explanation ;to be due to my noble col- fortunately he lays down confiscation as a rule, to make
leagues in this house, and to my right hon. friends in the large exceptions, for the purpose not only of freeing
other House of Parliament ; but now I have to consider, from further penaLies, but of restoring lands and pro-
under these circumstances, what is my duty not only to party to those who may have forfeited them by their
my colleagues, but to the people of India. I have served recent conduct. (Hear, hear.) The despatch sent out
the people of India as much out of office as in office for on the 26th of April, as I said before, was a secret
den-
nearly thirty years. The most earnest endeavours of my patch. When the proclamation finally came home and
public life have been used with a view to their benefit, was made known by the public journals it excited con-
and I will not do any act towards the close of that siderable attention and animadversion. My right hon.
public life which by any possibility might injure their in- friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer arrived late
terest. This question will be differently construed in in the hou3e that day. A question of which no notice
this country anc in India. Here it is a question be- had been given was immediately asked as to whether the
tween one party and another. (Cheers) Here it is proclamation had been received, whether any despatch
more a question whether my noble friend near ine had been written in answer to it, and whether we
should remain in office, or whether we should sub. were prepared to lay that despatch upon the table of the
mit to that to whiCh we have an intuitive dislike—the house. Without any communication with the Chancel-
restoration. (Hear, hear.) This is the real practical epees- for of the Exchequer, or with any other person in either
tion to be brought under the consideration of this and the house of Parliament, unfortunately, as I think, the Se-
other house of Parliament. (Cheers.) The question in cretary to the Board of Control rose and at once stated
li:idlibae understood isavery different question. The question there that a despatch bad been sent out, and would be laid on
w
to be the conflicting principles of con- the table. Now, I concur with my noble friend the Presi-
fiscation and clemency—(hear)—and I feel satisfied that, dent of She Board of Control in thinking that sooner or later
according as the decision of this and the other Howe of it was indispensable that that despatch should be pub-
Parliament may appear to incline to one or the other of lished. Questions must have been asked as to whether
these principles, there will be broadcast (VESTERDAY.) throughout India such a despatch was sent, and whether we approved the
lIOJ.SE OF COMMONS. --t_
the seeds of perpetual war, or hopes will be given to the policy indicated in the proclamation ; and if the silt j-,ct The &Linea took the chair at 4 o'clock.
people of India and of England—the hopes of permanent had given rise to discussions we should have been ex- PRIVATE BILLS.
reconciliation and peace. (Hear, hear.) I know well that, pected to show the terms in which we had written to the The Altidstone Gas Bill was read a third time and
passed,be the public importance of a question what it may, and 1 Governor-General. But I regret that that premature
Vie Mowing bills were considered and ordered to
no matter bow great may be the interests involved in it, announcement should have been made. (Hear.) I ex- be read a third time :—Aberdare Water ; Dundalk and
personal considerations but too much sway the decisions pressed my regret on the following day, and I recollect Er.niskilen Railway ; Sculcoates and Kingston-upon-
of both Houses of Parliament. I have determined, there- that upon that occasion a noble earl opposite drew atten- Hull Geo
fore, to remove those Personal considerations. lam re- tion to the fact that, instead of defending the publics- GLOIE INSURANCE COMPANY—(STAMP
solved that this question shall be con'idered on its merits; tion of the despetab, I confined nay observations to the DUTY ON MEMORIALS.)
and, determining to do everything I can to the last ino- ! policy expressed in it. (Hear.) That is perfectly true. The muse went into committee on this subject when,
r.FORSTER moved the following resolution :
aunt of my life for the benefit and peace of India, I have I fslt then, as I feel now, that, that haat and immediate That ; stamp duty of five pounds shall be payable for and
tendered to her Mojesty my resignation, and it has been apnunboliushnctehmeednat,ptahtacth_thaenGaonvneorunt.inceeninteenvyterienaedireepwairtehdoutot uponthe first memorial which may be enrolled pursuant
accepted. to a bill to enable the Globe Insurance Company to
Earl GREY said,—The question whether it was pro- t communication with any member of the Government alter and amend some of the provisions of their deed
cof ettlemfent, and to confer further powers on the
)h)npsahnayl
br
eo from
deemed,w h which memorialheld,
a ndt
per or not to publish the despatch which the noble earl was an act of imprudence, and that the results of the
I eminentlya m o f that
upo no
all
in
occasionsi opinion now ;
sent out to India will come regularly before the house on pub'ication of the despatch would be unfortunate. I wtakenhenames
toe he thete trusteesperso persona
a subsequent day, and it would be inconvenient for me Was oafntdbahto:sitt,yioi:
htlileehns;oof ,he company shall appear, and upon and for every
now to anticipate the discussion which will then arise ; and my noble friend near me, with that cat dour, frank- otier such memorial in which the name of any person
stall for the first time be inserted as a trustee
but I must protest against the fairness of discussing at fleas,
o
that act was his and his alone, and that he and he
only .ble upon pthe
this moment the question whether the proclamation off characterise his conduct, comes forward and states that the Stamp
companytam the like sum of five pounds,
Dutiesbe
lieu
Lord Canning was right or wrong, and I protest againste dew h icshu r rweonudledr othaec mcv lisses ions,e aoy;
it going out to the country that it is a question between I ought to be responsible for the consequences. (Hear.) assurances in the law which, in case the said bill were
confiscation and clemency. (Cheers.) I deny that that is There is nothing, my lords, so painful to my feelings „ not passed, would be required in order from time to time
al accurate version of Lord Canning's proclamation— 1 the possibility of being suspected for any purposes of to vest the trust estates and property of the company in
(hear, hear )—but I will not be dragged into a course sothe trustees for the time being of the company.—Agreed
ever to.
unfair towards r sacrificing a colleague, and I knew not that I have
Lord Canning as to discuss the grounds in my life felt deerEr pain than when I received from my RAILWAY BILLS (GROUP 8).
on which he issued the proclamation, and the policy an / owe friend, not a teDder of Lie resignation, but a coN Of Mr, B. CARTER moved that Mr. Hussey Vivian

HOUSE OF LORDS. —(YESTERDAY.)
ROYAL COMMISSION.
The Royal assent was given by commission to the
following bills, viz.:—Exchequer Bills (20,911,500/0,
Exchequer Bonds (2,000,000/.), Customs' Duties (No.
2), Excise Duties, General Board of Health,
(Skipton, &c.), Cambridge University Matriculation
and Degrees, Birmingham and Staffordshire Gas, Chel-
tenham Water, Whitehaven Harbour, Edinburgh Life
~aanranceCompany, Chester Gas, Nottingham
Gas, Madras Irrigation and Canal, Hasling-
den and Rawtenstall Water, Gosport Water, Folke-
stone Water, Liskeard and Looe Union Canal Company
Railway, and Acton's Naturalisation Act Amendment.
The Royal Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor,
the Marquis of Salisbury, and the Earl of Hardwicke.
Their lordships adjourned during pleasure.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
al Ova o'clock.

Earl GRANVILLE.—It has been stated that the
question was put without previous notice. Mr. Baillie
must have had notice of it, or how could he have com-
municated with the noble earl upon the subject? (A. laugh)

a letter in which he had already submitted his resignation
to her Majesty. I was bound to consider not private
and personal feelings only, but what was due to the great
interests of the country. I was bound to consider whe-
ther it was desirable that the Government should stake
their existence as a Government upon their liability for
an act of which they were not in the slightest degree
cognizant—whether they should take upon themselves
the defence of that which they felt they could not
wholly defend ; or whether they should accept the noble
self-sacrifice of my noble friend, and thereby through his
generosity allow his colleagues to have justice done to
them. The conclusion to which I came,—and I never
felt greater pain than when I arrived at that determine.
tion,—was that, in justice to the public interests, it was
my bounden linty to accept the self-sacrifice of ray noble
friend ; and, painful as I felt it to be to separate from
one for whom personally I entertain the highest respect,
whose knowledge of Indian subjects, whose long ex-
perience, whose devotedness to the cause of India, and
whose entire abnegation of all selfish feelings for the pro-
motion of the public welfare render him an invaluable
councillor on Indian affairs—(cheers)—and whose with-
drawal could not but be regarded as a great loss to the
Cabinet of her Majesty, I yet felt bound by still stronger
considerations, though with the deepest pain, to concur
in the suggestion of my noble friend that his resignation
should be received. (Hear, hear.) I have now made
all the observations which I think it necessary to address
to your lordships upon the present occasion. I will
admit to the noble earl opposite that this is not the time
to discuss the policy of the proclamation of Lord Can-
ning, either as it was intended to be issued, or as it
may hereafter be proved to have been issued. I regret
with him the premature publication of a document which
I think, ought not to have been so soon laid before the
public, though sooner or later it must have been '
submitted to Parliament. Still, feeling myself unable
to defend the hasty prounulg ation of that despatch,
I have been, with the greatest reluctance, com-
pelled to accept the resignation of nay noble friend near
me ; but in doing so I feel it due to myself, and due
to my colleagues, and due to him to say that we sepa-
rate from him as colleagues,—I trust we shall never
separate as friends,—with the deepest and sincerest re-
gret for his loss, and with an earnest hope that we may
still have the benefit of his disinterested and impartial
advice in our effort to settle the great problem of the
government of India. (Cheers.)
Earl G RANVILLE--I shall trouble your lordships
with only a few observations. I was certainly not pre-
pared for the important announcement made by the
President of the Beard of Control in a statement which,
as truly remarked by the noble earl who has just spoken,
was most honourable and straightforward ; and, how-
ever widely we may differ upon points of policy, I can-
not but feel that a large portion of the eulogy to which
your lordships have listened is well deserved. (Hear.)
How far the resignation of the President of the Board
of Control may affect the position of his colleagues I am
not prepared to say. My object in rising is simply to
call attention to a small matter of fact upon which some
doubt still seems to rest. The noble earl at the head of
the Government has stated that the question in the
House of Commons was asked without any notice having
been given, and that it was answered by the Secretary
to the Lard 6f Control without previous communica-
tion with any other member of the Government. Now,
what I want to ask is—and the fact must surely be
known to the noble earl—whether Mr. Baillie was
net aware that a question would be put to him, and
whether he gave his answer without knowingq the wishes
of his colleagues.
The Earl of DERBY.—My noble friend (Lord Ellen.
borough) stated distinctly that Mr. Baillie gave the
answer by hie authority and on his responsibility with-
out the knowledge of any member of the Cabinet. For
myself, I had not the slightest idea that that question,
or any other question upon that subject was going to
be put.

- -
house had of late years greatly improved. He did not
think that the proposal of the noble lord would work
practically, and he therefore felt bound to oppose it.
Lord STANLEY denied that the members of the house
were unfit to perform the duties of deciding upon private
bills. Still he thought that the practice of those com-
mittees could be much improved.
The discussion was continued by Mr. Inseam, Mr.
D. Griffiths, Lord Ebringten, Mr. W. Evart, Mr. T.
Egerton, and other member., after which,
Lord R. CECIL withdrew hie motion.
BARRACK ACCOMMODATION.
Lord EBRINGTON moved a resolution to the effect
that the mortality of the British army was caused by the
bad sanitary condition of the barrack accommodation.
That while the house viewed with satisfactien tho efforts
hitherto made for the improvement of the soldier, much
yet remains to be done with regard to barrack accommo-
dation —first, for its increase with a view to the discon-
tinuance of the billeting system ; and secondly, with a
view to the healthy accommodation of the troops in gene-
ral, and to the decent accommodation of the married sol-
dier; and that, in the opinion of the house, such increase
and improvement are imperatively called for, not less by
good policy and true economy, than by justice and
humanity. He compared the mortality in the army with
that of other classes of the community, to show that its
bad accommodation was the cause of its great relative
mortality,
Sir F. SMITH yielded to no man in the desire to im-
prove the accommodation of the soldier. There was no
doubt that of late years the amount of accommodation
given to each soldier was much increased. They no longer
slept two in a bed, or one over another. He referred to
barracks where there was a less proportion of chilli° feet
per man the mortality was not so great as in some where
there were more cubic feet. The amount of duty was not
of so much consequence as the character of that duty, the
running in and out instead of taking the duty " right off"
as the policeman did. When a policeman had done his
night duty he went home, had a cup of tea, and went to
bed. But the soldier was not allowed to turn down his
bed in the day time, and he had his accoutrements to
clean. The married soldier was batter off; he went home
like a policeman, had his tea, and went to bed; and by'
the time he got up his wife had cleaned half his accoutre-
ments for him. The army was much indebted to the noble
lord for bringing on the question, but they must not run
away with the notion that it was the small num-
ber of cubic feet alone that caused the morthlity.
There was touch less mortality amongst Sappers
and Miners, chiefly froni the circumstance that
they had only about one-tenth the night duty that other
regiments had.
Capt. ANNESLEY read some statistical statements,
comparing the police with the brigade of Guards, which he
said were about equal in number.. He observed that the
greater portion of the police were married, and their pay
allowed them to live in comfortable houses. A policeman
could retire by giving a month's notice. The soldier must
serve his time unless he was invalided. Bad characters and
drunkards were discharged from the police, and policemen
were not imprisoned, whereas the colonel of a regiment
could not get rid of them in so summary a manner, but
must have them punished by imprisonment with hard la-
bour, and came back with health impaired. He compared
the number of men required to keep up the str sngth of the
police and of the Guards respectively. There were 25 men
per week discharged from the police, so that in 12 months
1,300 new men were required to keep up a force of 6,000,
while the Guards only required 623. If the army could get
rid of their bad characters and unhealthy men at that rate
they would beimmortal.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said a barrack was one of the best
buildings to look at in London, so there must be some great
mismanagement in the interior arrangements. The house
had been charged with niggardliness, and the Commander-
in-Chief was reported. whether correctly (..r no, to have
said in another place that he could not get money enough
from this house to repair the barracks. He did not know
whether that was after dinner. The sums laid out in bar-
racks for the last few years was enormous. In 34 years it
had been upwards of 76 millions. It was said that the
night duty did the mischief, and it was suggested that the
police should be employed to do the duty, but he was sure
that no gallant officer in that house would wish that the
soldiers should have police to take care of thew. He un-
derstood that there was a costly pavilion erected for the
Queen at Aldershot. It was a strange thing for the Queen
of England to require a pavilion in the middle of a camp
of soldiers ; but if she wished for it the house did
sot grudge it to her. Only it was not fair to say that money
could not be got for barrack accommodation. The soldier
was a costly article, aud should be taken care of on grounds
of economy.
Cal. NORTH said the thanks of the army were due to
the noble lord. He could not understand why the soldier
should not be allowed to take off his great coat. Of course
he must wear his accoutrements to guard against surprise,
but a man was better prepared to act freely witkout his
great coat than with it. But the real reason was that in
most of the barracks there was no means of hanging upthe
great coats. It was a mere question of pounds, shillings,
and pence. There were sometimes two pegs, but that was
not sufficient. He was quite sure that after dinner or at
any time his Royal Highness the Commander-in-Chief
would bo found to speak the truth, and would show him-
self, as he had always been, a true friend of the soldier.
Mr. PEASE said that however they were satisfied that
there was a right thing to be done, there was also a right
time to do it. They had spent three and a half millions on
barracks within the last three years, and with the expense
of the war on our hands, and our financial affairs only just
patched up by the clever arrangement of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, he had great doubts whether this was a
proper time to undertake fresh barrack expenditure, with-
out first ascartaduing whether the expenditure at present
going on was to any purpose.
Sir J. PAXTON said it was agreat mistake if the house
supposed that the three and a half millions referred to had
been spent in giving improved barrack accommodation.
It was applied in providing barracks for the greater num-
ber of men required in consequence of the Russian war,
&c. He would recommend that all these town barracks
should be sold, and that the money should be appropriated
to the erection of barracks out of town.
Sir H. 'VERNEY thought the motion a good one. It
would be productive of good to the seller, and of economy
to the country.
Col. BOLDERO advised the adoption of the motion.
Lord PALMERSTON thought the army would be
greatly indebted to the noble lord for bringing forward
this motion, which he hoped would be adopted.
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT had no wish to make any
objections to the accuracy of the statistics that bait been
advanced by the military commissioners in reference to
the mortality of the Guards. He thought the great want
was of a statistical department in connection with the
military department of the Government (Hear, hear.)
The right bon. gentleman thought that intemperance was
not the real cause of disease amongst soldiers, but that it
arose generally from the bad ventilation of barracks.
General PEEL said that every man who had the welfare
of the military at heart would thank the noble lord for
bringing forward his motion, to which he should offer no
objection. The accommodation had no doubt been bad,
but the attention of Government would bo directed to the
subject.

and Viscount Bury be discharged from further attend-
ance on Group 8 of Railway Bills, and that Sir E. Cole-
brook° and Mr. W. Martin (W. Kent) be added to the
said committee.—Agreed to.
ROYAL ASSENT.

The SPEAKER, accompanied by many hon. members,
attended the House of Lords, and heard the Royal
assent given by commission to various bills. [See Lords'
report.]

EQUALISATION OF THE POOR-RATES.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS presented a petition, signed by
3,400 persons resident in the borough of Lambeth, for
an equalisation of the poor-rates.
ABOLITION OF TURNPIKE TOLLS.
Mr. W. Williams, Mr. Ingram, Mr. Byng, and Mr. T.
Duncombe presented petitions for the abolition of turn-
pike and toll bars within the metropolitan district.
THE BALLOT.
Mr. H. BERKELEY gave notice that he should on
the Bth June, move for leave to introduce a bill for
taking the votes of electors by ballot.

THE PROCLAMATION OF THE GOVERNOR
GENERAL OF INDIA.

Mr. STUART gave notice that he should, to-morrow,
put a question to the Under-President of the Board of
Control whether her Majesty's Government had yet re-
ceived any communication addressed to the late Presi-
dent of the Board of Control relative to the proclamation
of the Governor-General of India.
THE VOTE OF CENSURE ON THE
GOVERNMENT.

Lord V. TEMPEST gave notice that he should
move as an amendment to the motion of the
hon. member for Oxford (Mr. Cardwell), to the effect
that this house in its present state of information, ab-
stains from expressing an opinion on the policy of
any proclamation which may have been issued by the
Governor-General of India in relation to Oude, or on
the course pursued by the Government with reference
to such proclamation. (Cheers.)

THE COLONIES.
Viscount BURY gave notice that he should on the
Bth June move the appointment of a select committee
relative to the expediency of putting Penang, Singapore,
Malacca, and other places In the East under the con-
trol of the colonial department.
POSTPONEMENT OF THE VOTE OF CENSURE.
Mr. CARDWELL said it was the wish of her
Majesty's Government that the motion of which he had
given notice for Thursday should be discussed on that
day, and he appealed to hon. members who had notices
on the paper for that day to give way, that the motion
might have precedence on that day. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HEADLAM said he would give way and post-
pone his motion if other hon. members would do the
same. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. TRELAWNY declined to postpone his mo-
tion on Thursday relative to the Church-rate Bill, unless
the Government would give him another day. (Hear,
hear.)

Mr. CARDWELL said it rested on the Government
under the circumstances to state whether the motion
should come on on Thursday or on the fullowing day
(Friday).
____

Mr. DISRAELI—Friday ig quite at the right hon.
gentleman's service. (Cheers.)
Mr. CARDWELL—Then I will bring it on on Fri-
day. (Cheers.)

BENGAL ESTABLISHMENT.
Mr. W. VANSITTART asked the Secretary of the
Board of Control whether it was true that the three new
European infantry regiments, already authorised for the
Bengal establishment, were to be officered by a simple
transfer of European officers borne on the rolls of the
first six Native Sepoy corps of the line ; if so, what
peculiar claim the officers of the first six Native regi-
ments, no longer existing, had over the other extinct
Native regiments.
Mr. BAILLIE said it was true, as stated by the
hon. member in his question relating to the efficiency
of the regiments referred to, the selection rested with
the Governor-General of India.
ENDOWED SCHOOLS (IRELAND).
Mr. BAGWELL asked the Chief Secretary for Ire-
land if her Majesty's Government intended to legislate
this session upon the report of the Endowed Schools (Ire-
land) Commission, with a view to the improvement of
endowed sehools in Ireland, for the better manage-
ment of their endoweuents, and for the better regulating,
managing, and governing of such schools, and for the
general promotion, in connection with them, of acade-
mical education in Ireland.
Lord NAAS said it was not the intention of her Ma-
jesty's Government to propose any measure of the kind
this session.

THE CAGLIARI.
Mr. BINNAIRD asked the Under Secretary for
Foreign Affairs, whether the Government had settled
the amount that ought to be claimed as compensation
from the Neapolitan Government for the engineers of
the Cagliari, Watt and Park ; and, if so, whether the
demand bad been actually made, or whether it had been
left to arbitration under the arrangements suggested at
the meeting of the Congress of Paris ?
Mr. CRAWFORD put a question to tba Under-
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, of which be had given
notice, relative to the statement in the morning papers
of what had passed in the Turin Chambers, relative to
the negotiations between this country and Sardinia,
which was different to the statement made by the hon.
gentleman to that house on a former occasion.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD, in reply to the last question,
appealed to the house whether anything was more un-
usual—(cheers)—more inconvenient, or more unfair,
than that questions of this kind should be put with •ut
previous notice ? (Cheers ) In reply to the other gueE-
don, the right hon. gentleman said her Majesty's Go-
vernment had inst••ucted Mr. Lyons as t‘) the definite
sum to be demanded as compensation from the Neapo-
litan Government.

:211:itotneethate
CAPTAIN KING'S PROMOTION.
Mr. BRADY asked the Secretary far War why Capt.
King, of the Depot Battalion Department, was promoted
to a majority, he not being the senior adjutant cr senior
captain of that branch of the service, and was not such
appointment contrary to the rules of the service ?
General PEEL appealed to the house as to the pro
priety of those questions being put in that house.
(Cheers.) The only answer he felt it his duty to give to
the question of the hon. member was that he (General
Peel) was fully aware of the appointment, and he held
himself fuLy responsible for the promotion. (Cheers.)
THE CAPE OF GOOD HOPE MAILS.
Mr. MACARTNEY aske I the late Secretary to the
Treasury, the cause for altering the port of arrival and
departure of the Cape of Good Hope Mails in England
to Devonport in place of Southampton, as set out in the
copy
Fof o
rt
thehe moacceptedtiono Union Steam
Shipping Company, bearing date the 27th day of
rd J. RUSSELL, the
August, 1857, laid on the table of this house (No. 119),
whether at the desire of the Postmaster-General, the
Board of Admiralty, or the inhabitants of Devonport ;
and also, why the additional sum inserted in the con-
tract should be 3,0061., in place of 1,2001., as named in
the eighth column of the tender, for such change of the
port of departure 1 .
Mr. WILSON said no alteration had been made
since the acceptance of the tender.
OATHS BILL.
The adjourned debate on the Oaths Bill (Amend-
manta) relative to the nomination of Baron Rothschild a
member of the committee for the Lords' Conference,
was resumed by
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, and after some dis-
cussion, in which Mr. Whitbread, Mr. Headlam Mr.
Macaulsy, Mr. Col'ier, Mr, H. Drummond Mr.
Malins, and other hon. members took part, the' house.
divided. The numbers were—
Against it. .................................. 196
Majority ....................... 55
committee was therefore carried.
once OT nh
ewt hitehdmotionmotion
o ro
appointingL

&lona PENNANT supported the motion.
Sir W. CODRINGTON advocated an extension of bar-
rack accommodation.

Colonel KNOX thought there might be better plans for
the accommodation of soldiers in barracks. He trusted
also that some means would be taken to improve the ven-
tilation of the barracks.
Mr. S. HERBERT explained. •
Mr. MONSELL said that the report with respect to
barracks had not been acted on, simply because no new
barracks had been constructed since it appeared. The
best mode of raising money for the building of new and
efficient barracks would be selling old and useless ones.
Lord BURGHLEY also pressed the necessity of an im-
proved ventilation in barracks.
After a few words from Lord EBRINGTON and Mr. B.
JOHNSTONE, the motion was agreed to.
TURNPIKE TOLLS (IIETROPOLIS).
On the motion of Mr. BYNG, it was agreed that an
humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that
she will be pleased to issue a royal commission to inquire
and report as to the beat means of aff rding to the inhabi-
tants of the metropolitan districts, within six miles of
Charing-cross, a relief from the abolition of turnpike-gates
and toll-bars similar to that which the legislature has
already granted, on the recommendation of a royal corn
mission to the metropolis of Ireland.

ELECTION COMMITTEES.
Mr. COLLINS moved for leave to bring in a bill to fur-
ther limit and define the jurisdiction of election commit-
tees in cases of scrutiny, by extending the provisions of
the act of the 6th Vic., chap. 18, sec. 98.—Agreed to.
ASCENSION DAY.
Lord R. CECIL moved th ,t all committees of the house
stand adjourned over Thursday next, being Ascension Day.
Mr. WALPOLE said it was usual not to sit until after
wo o'clock on Ascension Day.
After a brief discussion the motion was withdrawn.
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.

On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
• Mr. BROWN could only assent to the second reading
on the understanding that by passing it through that stage,
the deliberations of the select committee, to which it was
to b 3 remitted, should not at all be prejudiced.
Mr. HORSFALL opposed the bill.
The second reading was postponed until Tuesday next,
PROPERTY QUALIFICATION BILL
Mr. BEN TINCK gave notice that when it was proposed
to go into committee on this bill, ho should move that that
stage be taken that day six mouths.
The report of supply and ways and means was then
brought up.
The Stamp Duties on Drafts Bill was read a third time
nod passed. _

The house then adjourned at 20 minutes to 1 o'clock.

CENTRAL CRIMINA COURT.—May 11.