The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-19 00:00:00

THE OATHS BILL.

At half•past four o'clock the SPEAKER announced that
the hour appointed for the conference with the House
of Peers had arrived.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that the members who
drew up the reasons of the Commons for disagreeing
with the amendments made in their lordships' house be
appointed to manage the conference.
Tne motion was agreed to, and the members heft the
house.
After an absence of 10 minutes the members returned,
and Lord JOHN RUSSELL announced that they had been
to the cooference, and had left the bill and the reasons
with their lordships for their consideration.
Lord NORREYS gave notice that on Thursday
next he should ask a question of the Secretary of the
Board of Control, with respect to his silence regarding
the proclamation of the Governor-General of India.
HARBOURS IN IRELAND.

Mr. 11A.SSARD asked the Secretary of State for
War, if any report had, within the last year, been re-
ceived at the War-office or Horse-Guards, relative to the
great facilities afforded by the harbour of Waterford for
landing and embarking troops to and from the south of
Ireland ; and, if so, whether he had any objection to lay
the same on the table of the house !
General PEEL said the most favourable reports had
been received, and as those reports were asked for, there
would be no objection to their production.

THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL'S PROCLA-

MA.TION.

Sir D. NORREYS asked the Chancellor of the Ex•
chequer whether the Governor-General of India bad
seat home a copy of the proclamation addressed to the
chiefs and inhabitants of Oude, which was actually
issued after the taking of Lucknow, and whether
it differed in any respect from the proposed proclama-
tion, a copy of which had been laid before the house ;
And whether the Governor-General of India had given to
the Government of England, or to the India Board, any
other explanation of such proclamation, or the reasons
which have led to or justify its issue than such as are
contained in the letter addressed by Mr. Edrnonstone to
the Secretary to the Chief Commissioner of Oude, dated
31 March, and which has been laid bef ,re the house.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—In
answer to the first question of the hon. baronet, I beg to
inform him that we have not received any " copy of the
proclamation addressed to the chiefs and inhabitants of
Oude, which was actually issued after the taking of
Lucknow," and therefore I cannot say whether it differs
in any respect from the proclamation which has been
laid before the house. With respect to the second and
more important question, whether the Governor-General
of India has given to the Government " any other ex-
planation of such proclamation, or the reasons which
have led to or justify its issue, than such as are contained
in the letter of Mr. Edmonstorae," I beg to inform the
hon. baronet that we received on Saturday three pri-
vate letters from Lord Canning, which have been al-
ready referred to in the debates. There are references
in these letters to the proclamation, but previous
letters, in which the Governor-General may have
given the explanatioas which he had promised, and in
which probably there were other statements that seem to
be referred to in those letters, and which are conse-
quently involved in obscurity, have never reached us. li
(Ministerial cheers.)
Sir D. NORREYS asked whether the Government
had received positive information from the Governor-
General that any such proclamation had been issued 2
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—We
have not received from the Governor-General any posi-
tive information that such a proclamation had been
issued ; but we have positive information that it has
been issued. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I wish to make an observe
tion with reference to the cmcluding part of the right
hon. gentleman's answer to the first question, which
seems to contain an insinuation, which some mem-
bers of the house accepted in the sense it was pro-
bably intended to convey. The right honourable gen•
tleman said that three letters hail been received from
Lerd Canning on Saturday, containing references to
previous letters that hal not reached the Board of Cm-
trol, but which he supposed contained Explanations of
the proclamation. I have only to say that my right
bon. friend who was lately President of the Board of
Control hag received no xplanation from Lord Canning,
in any private letter, with refeemence to the proclama-
tion in Oude. (hear, bear.) Consequently, if these
letters have not reached the present Government,
neither have they reached my right hon. friend, who
was formerly at the head of the Indian Government.
(Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I beg
to say that I did not intend, and that I did not make
any insieuation of the kind to which the noble lord ha-
referred. (Cheers.) There Ere gentlemen who are ever
ready t 0 believe that insinuations are made with regard
to
Ito theirinaL nation.
I repeat unequivocally that I made
ion. (Cheers.) If I had a charge to make, I
should mw
make it not in ene of inzinuation, butie
language that could not be
may
mistaken. (Cheers.) The
noble lord has entirely misunderstood what I said. I
ssid there were expressions in the letters received frod'
L )rd Canning which seemed to ref sr to what had'
stated in other letters ; that there were observations
them which contained references to matters of which in
had no account ; that they were, therefore, neceasarili
involved in obscurity; aad that under these circumatanc,e
I was unable to give the explanation which the hon.
taronet asked. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. SHELLEY asked whether the Government
had obtained information of any proclamation having
been issued?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I
I eeed before that we are in poesession of coulinunica-

tions which speak to the fact of the proclamation having
been issued, but we have no official communication from
Lord Canning to that effect. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PALINGTON-1t is in my power to give an
answer to the hon. baronet. I have within the last
few hours seen a gallant officer who arrived from Luck
now last night, and who before leaving Lucknow had a
conversation with Sir Colin Campbell. In that conver-
sation Sir, Colin Campbell stated to him his opinion of
the proclamation which had arrived. (Hear, hear.)
Sir C. WOOD asked whether it was to be understood
that the proclamation bad arrived, or had bean issued at
Lucknow.
Sir J. PAKINGTON was understood to say that
the explanation he had received was that the proclama-
tion had been sent to Lucknow. (Hear, hear.)
Lord A. V. TEMPEST asked the right hon. gentle-
man the late President of the Board of Control whether
he bad any objection to produce those parts of the
private letter he had received from Lord Canning which
referred to the subject of the proclamation.
Mr. V. SMITH—I have already stated the substance
of the letter, and also that had I, to the best of my judg,
went and discretion, considered it important enough to
be communicated to the Government, I would have done
so. I did not think any part of the letter important,
and therefore did not send it. (Hear, and oh, oh.)
Lord A. V. TEMPEST said the right hon. gentleman
bad not answered his question. (Order, order.)
The SPEAKER said the noble lord might put a ques-
tion, but was not at liberty to enter into any comments.
Lord A. V. TEMPEST would repeat his question.
Had the right hon. gentleman any objection to lay be-
fore the house those parts of the letter he had received
from Lord Canning which related to the subject of the
proclamation ?
Mr. V. SMITH-I have already stated the substance
of the letter, and that is the only answer I have to make.
(Ironical cheers.)
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE rose, amid loud cries of
" order," to make a statement. In order to put himself
in order he said he would move the adjournment of the
house. He understood there was a gallant officer who
had held a high command in Oude now in town, who
had stated publicly on various occasions that he had had
communications with officers high in command and with
the Governor-General since the publication of the pro-
clamation. He had also stated what were the impres-
sions on Lord Canning's mind, and the mind of others,
with regard to that subject, and he (Sir J. Elphinstone)
thought it would be desirable to have, if possible, the
substance of that officer's evidence given to the house.
(Ohl and No, co.)
Mr. V. SMITH thought this a most irregular pro-
ceeding. Why did the hon. gentleman, if he had the
evidence of this gallant officer, not communicate it to
the house himself

The motion for the adjournment was then withdrawn

Mr. DILLWYN asked whether, in the event of the
amendment he had given notice of to the motion of the
right hon. gentleman the member for Oxford being car-
ried, and in effect becoming a substantive motion, it
would receive the support of her Majesty's Govern •
ment. (Oh, oh.)
The CLIA.NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said--
I wish to explain to the house the state of business. I
understand we cannot hope to make any arrangement
by which the debate on the Oude question can be re-
sumed to night at any reasonable hour. I do not,think
it would be just to the Government that this disbussion
should be recommenced atjthe fag end of a debate.
(Hear.) I understand that the hon. and gallant admiral
(Sir C. Napier) acting, no doubt, from a sense of duty,
declines to give way, and one cannot expect those
gentlemen who precede him on the paper to make a
sacrifice of their position. I think, therefore, that there
is no probability of the adjourned debate occurring to-
night at any reasonable hour, and I confess I am some-

what reconciled to the delay, because there is no pos-
sibility of the house dividing to-night. But I must beg
that, on every practice of courtesy and every principle of
justice, bon. members who have motions on the paper
for Thursday will consent to an arrangement by which
the discussion on the resolutions of the right hon. gent le•
man (Hr. Cardwell) will be resumed at the earliest pos•
Bible moment on that day. Thursday is a day in
the occupation of private members, and the hon. mem-
ber for Surrey has a motion of the greatest importance
for that day. It is with the greatest reluctance that I
make an appeal to that hon. gentleman to sacrifice the
occasion of bringing forward a matter of so much in-
terest, but my appeal to that hon. member is not made,
under light circumstances. (hear, hear.) I hope,
therefore, that, the hon. member for Surrey, taking all
the circumstances into his consideration —remembering
that a bill of indictment, as it were, has been preferred
against her Majesty's Government—that they are on
their trial, and that we are, further, on the eve of a re-

teas, will see the neces3ity that the decision of the liotie

on this subject shall not be unnecessarily postponed.
(hear.) I cannot but believe that the hon. gentleman,
animated by the sentiments of a generous mind, will
allow the adjourned debate to be resumed on Thursday.
(hear.) if the hon. gentlema❑ gives his consent I shall
feel it to be my duty to give him facilities for bringing
on his measure on the earliest practicable occasion.
(Cheers.) If the hon. gentleman consents that the ad-
journed debate shall be resumed on Thursday its termi-
nation must be near at hand, and cannot fail to take
place either on that or the succeeding night. With
regard to the question of the hon. member for Swansea
(Mr. Dillwyn), if the motion of the right hon. gentleman
the member for Oxford is negatived, as I hope it will be
—(a laugh)—l see nothing in the amendment of the
hon. gentleman to which I could not give a willing
consent.

Mr. L. KING, after the appeal made to him, would
postpone his motion on Thursday. (Hear, hear.)
ADJOURNMENT OVER THE DERBY DAY.
Captain VIVIAN moved that the house at its rising
adjourn to Touraday. He had no doubt that bon.
members were anxious to have an opportunity of at-

tending to-morrow those amusements which were o

such importance that they were almost a part of our
constitution. (A. laugh.) He trusted that the right
hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who
so often levelled the shafts of his eloquence in that house
would offer no objection to the motion, and that he
would find to-morrow another Toxopholite in another
place. (A laugh.)
The motion was then agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. BOUVERIE it was ordered,
amid a slight murmur from members of committee, that
committees have leave to sit to-morrow, not withstand-
ing the adjournment of the house.
LORD CANNING'S PROCLAMATION.

Mr. CRAWFORD said it was generally understood
that Colonel Franks, the officer alluded to as having
just returned from Lucknow, bad stated that before Lis
departure from Lucknow it was understood that the pro-
clamation which had been so much referred to, had been
issued by Lord Canning in obedience to instructions
sent out from this country. (Hear.) He begged to ask
the late President of the Board of Control whether such
was the case or not ? (Hear.)
Mr. V. SMITH (after a brief consultation with Lord
Palmerston) said the question was so obviously ridicu-
lous that it hardly required an answer. (Hear, and a
laugh.) He had already said that the first instruction he
had received respecting the proclamation he had given
the substance of to the house.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that a feeling of justice to-
wards Colonel Franks compelled him to take some notice
of the question. Colonel Franks felt considerable deli-
cacy with respect to the conversation which had taken
place between himself and Lord Canning, and was most
solicitous that he should not be supposed to have re-
flected in any manner upon that nobleman. The hoc.
member for London was misinformed as to the facts.
Colonel Franks had heard a rumour that the proclama-
tion of Lord Canning was the result of a communication
with the late President of the Board of Control (Nlr. V.
Smith), but Colonel Franks said that that impression
was erroneous, and had arisen from the inference that
from all that had taken place the proclamation must
have issued from instruc iotal from home. Col. Pranks,
however, did not it.teud to say that the proclamation
had so issued. (Rear, hear.)
The motion fur adjournment till Thursday was then
agreed to.