The Sun.
London, England, 1867-10-30 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENiNG, OCTOBta -80, 1867.

we had a right, as a party, to deal with this
question of Parliamentary Reform ; that this
convenient creed that has been circulated of late
throughout the country, and has been preached so
recently in this good city of Edinburgh (cheers),
that the treatment of Parliamentary Reform is a
peculiar object of the Whig party is not true. I
think you will, therefore, admit that it is clear that
that we, as a party, had a right to deal with the
question. (Cheers.) Now I come to the third point
of this inquiry. Having a right to deal with the
question, and feeling that we ought to deal
with the question, which points, I think
you will agree, are proved (cheers and
laughter), did we deal with the question in the
right manner? (" Hear, hear," and cheers.)
Now, my lords and gentlemen, I say that no man
can give a fair and accurate opinion upon that
momentous question unless he clearly ascertains, in
the first place, what were the relations of Lord
Derby and his party to this question of Parliamen-
tary Reform. Lord Derby succeeded to office as
Prime Minister for the first time in the year 1852,
Lord John Russell having just then failed on the
question of Parliamentary Reform. (Laughter.)
It was not necessary for Lord Derby to deal with
the question. Everybody felt, however wise it
might be to consider it with reference to ultimate
settlement, there was no pressure for an immediate
solution. The measure of Lord John Russell was
considered bad by his friends. Though I, gentle-
men, say so, though there were many to vindicate
his course, yet I considered it was an immature
measure. (Applause.) Then, when we came into
office in 1852, we had to make up our minds to the
general policy we should carry out with regard to
the subject, because we need not bring forward a
measure the Opposition had agitated for three years.
We were quite certain they would bring forward
motions on the subject, and upon these motions the
Government must be prepared to express their
general policy, and so it turned out. We had not
been in office 10 days before notices upon the sub-
ject of Reform were showered on the table like a
snowstorm. (Laughter.) Mr. Hume gave notice
of a motion which he had annually made for
three or four years, and the pressure of which
measure forced Lord John Russell to introduce
a bill about a month after we succeeded to
office. Lord Derby and his colleagues had then to
consider the course they would take, the general
policy they would announce, and the duty fell to
my lot. (Applause.) I hope, my lords and gentle-
men, you will not think me guilty of egotism, if I
speak in these few remarks I have to make of myself
—(cheers)---it is convenient in narrative ; but what
I did at any time I did not only with the consent, but
with the saction of my colleagues. It fell to me to
express the policy of Lord Derby. I told the House
of Commons, in answer to the motion of Mr. flume
and two or three others by Mr. Locke King and
others, that we were not prepared to deal with
the question of Parliamentary Reform, but we
claimed our right if we thought it necessary to deal
with it. We said, " If it be necessary at any future
time to deal with the great question of the represen-
tation of the people it is our opinion a great mistake
was made in that question under the Act of 1832."
(Hear, hear, and applause.) It was the one in
which Parliament destroyed the relations between
the labouring classes and the Constitution—(cheers)
—and I said then on the part of Lord Derby that if
ever we felt it our duty to deal with the question we
should endeavour to remedy the difficulty, as we
believed it to be the real cause of the failure that
express itself in this country in a manner that no
statesman could dispose of, and in my opinion
proved very injurious. (Applause.) There was
another great feature of our policy that I also ex-
pressed to the House of Commons. I said, " If there
is ever to be another Reform Bill we can consent to
new measure unless adequate justice is done to that
majority of the population of England who live in
counties." (hear, hear, laughter, and applause.)
Now, these were the two great points which in 1852
on the part of Lord Derby we announced we should
insist upon if ever we had to deal with the question
of Reform. Well, in 1852, after the retirement of
Lord Derby, and on the accession of Lord Aberdeen's
Government, we introduced a considerable measure
of reform and failed. There was also the Govern-
ment of Lord Palmerston. The Government of Lord
Palmerston was much engaged with the Crimean
war, and that was supposed to be an excuse, and it
was a very fair excuse for his not continuing legislat-
ing on the subject. Bat mark this important fact :
when allusions are made, and in a certain sense
justly made, as by our chairman here, to Lord
Palmerston's Reform. Lord Palmerston on the
conclusion of the Crimean war had to appeal to
the country, and he appealed in a most triumph-
ant manner, and had the largest majority that
any Ministry has had since the bill was passed,
and what did he do ? The moment that Par-
liament met he advised her Majesty to recom-
mend in her Speech from the Throne the ques-
tion of Parliamentary Reform. Therefore, you may
say that Lord Palmerston failed, and unexpectedly.
Lord Derby again found himself Prime Minister in
1859 ; and I am bound to say this, that, whatever
was the levity of Lord Palmerston at any public
meeting on Parliamentary Reform, he did nothing
of the kind in private. (Applause.) He communi-
cated to his successor, the present Prime Minister of
England, that he thought it of the greatest import-
ance that this question should be settled ; that it
impressed the Crown, impressed Parliament, might
be the source and cause of disaster to the State, and
that if a moderate and well-considered measure were
introduced he would give it a very candid and fair
consideration. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I remem-
ber the conduct of my friend when Mr. Baines
brought forward his motion on reform, and none
but some of those artists who have departed from
among us could have done justice to it. (Applause.)
Lord Derby did make an effort, but I have always
drawn this inference from it—that Lord Palmerston
wished the question of Reform to be treated not by
his own friends. (Laughter.) Lord Derby did make
the effort in 1859 ; he failed. This is the next rela-
tion of Lord Derby and his party to the question of
Reform. He had to deal with the question. It was
his opinion, after the most deliberate thought, and
after the most painful investigation of the subject,
that with regard to the borough franchise no reduc-
tion, no degradation of the borough franchise from
£lO to £B, or £7 or £6, would be truly satisfactory;
that it would lead to no settlement ; that you could
arrive at no settlement unless you came to household
suffrage. He was not prepared to recommend
that. He did not believe the country would have
supported him in such a course, and therefore he en-
deavoured to carry out the policy which he recom-
mended as to facilitating the admission of the work-
ingclasses into the Constitution by a variety of fran-
chises, into which 1 am not going to enter. The lodger
franchise was one. It was treated, of course, with
contempt, but I understand that now it is the pal-
ladium of ourliberties. (Laughter.) Well these were
the relations of Lord Derby to the question of Re-
form. Ile had in 1852 laid it down in his own view
of the case that no settlement which did not revise
the relations of the working classes to the Constitu-
tion of Englund, and at the same time did not do
justice to the populations in the counties that were
so feebly represented, would be satisfactory. In
1859 he endeavoured, so far as he could, with re-
gard to the borough franchise, to carry that into
effect by this new franchise which would have given
some considerable opening to the working classes,
and he also endeavoured, as far as he could, to give
some increased representation to the counties. These,
then, were the relations of Lord Derby and his
friends from 1852 to 1859, and now mark this. In
1859 you know what occurred. We were expelled
from power by a resolution of Lord John Russell,
that no settlement of the question of reform could
be satisfactory which did not involve lowering of
the borough franchise. We resisted that, believing.
that it was a policy which ought not to be sanc-
tioned by the House of Commons unless it was de-
finitely brought forward, and feeling confident
that it was no mere degradation of the borough
franchise that could bring any satisfactory settle-
ment, we dissolved Parliament upon the issue ; we
appealed to the country. The country did not give
us a majority, and therefore the Parliament and the
country were pledged to the lessening of the fran-
chise in boroughs. That was a settled point. Well,

now, what happened during the seven memorable
years that elapsed from 1859 to 1865 when Lord
Derby was again called into power, and when he
did me the honour to ask me again to attempt to
lead the House of Commons ? (Cheers.) Observe
what has occurred in Parliament on the subject of
reform during these seven years. They commenced
with the measure of Lord Palmerston in 1860 ;
that failed, and these seven years ended with the
measure of Lord John Russell. That also failed,
and in the interval there were all these separate
motions of Mr. Locke King and Mr. Baines. Con-
sequently during these seven years the question of
Parliamentaryßeform was before the public mind
and under the examination of Parliament. Dur-
ing that period of seven years, with the advice, I
may say under the instructions of my colleagues,
I expressed the 'principles upon which any measure
of Parliamentary Reform ought to be established.
Now, mark this, because these are things which you
may not have beard in any speech which has been
made in the city of Edinburgh. (Laughter and
cheers.) I had to prepare the mind of the country,
and to educate—if it be not arrogant to use such a
phrase—to educate our party. It is a large party,
and requires its attention to be called to questions
of this kind with some pressure. I had to prepare
the mind of Parliament and the country on this
question of Reform. This was not only with the
concurrence of Lord Derby, but of my colleagues.
The first great point which it was my duty always
to impress upon Parliament was that we should
listen to nothing that was not a complete and com-
prehensive measure, that all the points of the subject
of Parliamentary Reform should be treated together,
because we knew that upon our treating them de-
pended the political equilibrium which has hitherto
prevailed in this country. That is the first ques-
tion. What is the second ? During these
seven years I bad to vindicate the principles
on which disfranchisement and enfranchise-
ment should take place. I said, "We cannot
listen for a moment to the reasons assigned for
grouping boroughs. We cannot say that the
representation of any place should be entirely
abrogated." We insisted in our bill that no centre
of representation should be abolished, and we said,
" For the increased representation you want in Eng-
land you must look to a certain class of boroughs,
no doubt, to give up a portion of their claim." And
what was the third question ? It was whether any
Parliamentary reform could be satisfactory, unless
you had a real and bona fide Boundary Commission.
What was the fourth point? That justice should
be done to the representation of the majority of the
English nation who live in counties, and that it
should be done not merely by giving representation
to the great towns which have sprung into im-
portance since Lord Grey's Act of 1832, but by
adding a considerable number directly to their re-
presentatives. What was the fifth point? We in-
sisted upon, and supported by our vote, that the
borough franchise should be established on the prin-
ciple of rating. (Cheers.) These are the five
points which, for seven weary and toilsome years, I
have, with the entire concurrence and at the instiga-
tion of those who share your confidence, endea-
voured in the House of Commons to impress upon
the conscience and conviction of Parliament. There
was a change of Government. Lord Derby came
into power, and, having to consider the state of the
country, it was his opinion that it was necessary to
bring in a Reform Bill. Well, we brought in a Re-
form Bill. (Cheers.) We passed a Reform Bill.
(Loud cheers.) And now I ask you to consider
whether the five points which for seven years on
the part of Lord Derby were impressed on the
country were obtained or not. Our Reform Bill
was a complete and comprehensive measure. We
did vindicate the principles on which enfranchise-
ment and disfranchisement should take place. We
had no grouping, we did not abolish entirely
the representation of any place, but we did ap-
peal successfully to certain boroughs to give their
surplusage of representation to supply the wants
of other constituencies. We did justice to the
counties ; we did issue a Boundary Committee,
which has examined, and is examining, the
Parliamentary boundaries of every borough. And,
fifthly, and lastly, we did establish a suffrage
for the boroughs which was founded upon the prin-
ciple of rating. (Cheers.) And then lam told, when
the policy which we recommended for the country
for seven years has been so triumphantly carried
into effect, that we have done nothing, and that it
is our opponents who have carried the bill. I can
only say this—that if you had seen the countenance
of the gentleman who had recently made a speech
in this city when I did carry that bill—(great
laughter and cheers)—you would not have read in
those lineaments the triumph of the Liberal party
after their toils of 70 years. (Loud laughter.) I
must say I never saw such a command over the
exultation which is natural and peculiar to man
when he succeeds in an object dear to his heart and
to his country. (Laughter and cheers.) But, gen-
tlemen, let us not in the exultation of party cease to
be impartial in the consideration of a great measure.
It may be said, and it will be said, " What you say
is very true ; you carried your fifth point, which
nobody can deny, but your fifth point involves all
your treason. True it is you have established the
franchise of boroughs on the principle of rating, but
you have established the democratic government in
England, because you have established household
suffrage, and then you have gone much further
than the measure you previously opposed." Now,
let us see if there is anything in that. lam not at
all prepared to admit that in establishing household
suffrage with the conditions of residence and rating,
upon which we have insisted, we have established a
democratic government. (Cheers.) But it is unne-
cessary to enter into that consideration, because we
have not established household suffrage in Eng-
land. There are, I believe, about 4,000,000 houses
in England, and under our ancient laws, and under
the act of Lord Grey, about 1,000,000 of the occu-
piers possess the franchise. Under the act of 1867
something more than 500,000 were added to that
million. Well, then, I want to know, if there are
4,000;000 of householders, and only 1,500,000 have
suffrage, how can household suffrage be established in
England ? You may question my statements, but
they have beedprepared by those who have been ap-
pointed by the Liberal party. I have seen an esti-
mate given by a man of extreme and advanced
opinions, and than whom no man is more acquainted
with the working classes—l mean the hon. member
for Oldham, Mr. Hibbert. He has recently spoken
upon this subject. Ho supported the Government
Reform Bill. He says, "It is a good bill, and I
am grateful for it. lam content with it." This is
a Man of extreme opinions, who is looked on with
feelings of adoration in the densely-populated
manufacturing districts. He says the addition
to the suffrage will be about 520,000, of which
something under two-fifths will be county electors,
and 355,000 or 850,000 will be borough electors.
He entirely confirms the knowledge on which the
Government acted. But is that a Democratic Go-
vernment? Are we to be frightened at such a re-
sult as that ? Are we really to believe that a con-
stituency of one million and a half—one million of
whom we know from our own knowledge for a very
considerable space of time have exercised that suf-
frage according to the disposition of the country,
and are now to be assisted in the fulfilment of their
duty by some half a million or more—are we to be-
lieve that is the establishment of Democratic Go-
verement in England ? 'Why, to say that this can
be maintained even by an ex Lord-Advocate—
(laughter)—l can only look upon it as one of the
most preposterous conclusions. I say, in brief, that
Lord Derby could not have fixed upon any other
solution of the borough franchise question than
that which we have arrived at. Remember that
every degradation of the borough franchise —I used
the term originally, and I do not shrink from it ;
I used it advisedly and for a purpose—l say, that
every degradation of the franchise declaring, first,
that every man shall have a vote who pays £lO for
his house, and then that every man who pays £8
should have it, and thus through all the notes of the
gamut, £7, £6, £5, and so on—these successive de-
gradations of the franchise, I repeat, cannot recom-
mend themselves to the statesman. How is it that
five Prime Ministers have consecutively failed to
deal with the question ? Think of five Prime Minis-
ters—the wisest men, the chief, the prime men of

the country, representing all the great political

parties— failing in this. There must have been

some cause for this failure. The cause was this :
—Every hon. statesman in the House of Commons
—all the independent men in the house—came to
this conclusion, what was the use of these continued
changes ? I say there was only one mode of settle-
ment. When you try to settle any great question
of this sort there are two great merits which the
statesman should not forget. First of all let the
settlement be founded upon some principle ; but
that is not enough ; let it also be a change that is
in harmony with the manners and the character of
the people that you are dealing with. When you
came to this question of the suffrage for boroughs
there was a principle in saying that a man who
has a house, and by his residence and by his contri-
bution to the taxation has shown that he is an in-
dividual interested in the welfare of the community
of which he is a member, and the kingdom of which
he is a subject—there was a principle in saying
that that was a man whom you could trust in pre.
ference to the migratory pauper. That is a prin-
ciple ; but, then, if you can apply that principle in
deference and harmony to the manners and cus-
toms of your country, I say you have a chance of
settling this great question. If you find it was the
old custom of the country that the householder
should possess the suffrage, that the man who, by
his residence and position, proved that he could be
intrusted with it—you had a principle, and your
traditionary practice consecrated your principle.
If ever there was a settlement, that was a settle-
ment. I say that under these circumstances the
measure we brought forward was the only one, and
that the settlement of Lord Derby's Government is
the only settlement, and is universally acknowledged.
(Cheers.) I think you know it -must be acknow-
ledged that it is said we have not treated our friends
well ; that we have been unstatesmanlike, and, on
the whole, that we have behaved in a. very extraor-
dinary manner. Well, we proceeded by resolutions,
and [ say that the common sense of the House
of Commons vindicated our original course,
and though theoretically we did not pass the Re-
form Bill by resolutions, yet practically we did.
Though we proceeded by resolutions or by bill, we
had a policy of our own, from which we would
never deviate. (Cheers.) Well, then, the next
thing is about the condition of residence. That was
a fair question for the resolutions. The conditions
of residence in municipal franchise is about three
years— practically three years. A great many of
what are called the working classes communicated
with us through their different bodies, and they all
said that they were perfectly willing, indeed anxious,
to take household suffrage, provided that they had
the three years' residence. We felt, however, that
we could not get a majority, and then we must feel
our way. The House was in favour of one year ; I
thought two years very reasonable, and divided the
House. A great many of the Tories voted with
me, a great many remained away, and a great many
who voted against me voted in the encouragement
of their leader. (Laughter.) Then there was a
third security, the reduction of the county franchise.
Mr. Locke King proposed a £lO. I went down to
the House prepared to support the proposal of the
Government. The county members of both sides
met that afternoon. They said that a £l2 rating
franchise was, in their opinion, perfectly satisfac-
tory. Why, what was I to do ? Of course, I
thought myself very fortunate to prevent Mr. Locke
King carrying his £lO franchise, and to make an
arrangement which my own party desired. There
is one point I must introduce, if I have not tres-
passed too long on your attention. (Cheers.) I
speak of an animal not known in Scotland, and,
thank God, no longer known in England—the
" compound householder." (Laughter.) The com-
pound householder is a being who wants to vote
without paying rates. Well, that we opposed ;
nothing in the world would induce us to consent to
any man having a vote who did not personally pay
his rates, and I believe that is a sound principle. Of
course, we know very well that:it is a difficult thing
to deal with, because no doubt there are a
great 'Luny men who are compound householders,
who do not pay rates, and there is the apparent
injustice, of which every one is sensible ; but we were
firm upon it, and would have withdrawn the bill if
that had been insisted on. We were perfectly right.
As for attempting to do away with the compound
householder when Parliament first met we should
have had all the vestries of London agitating, and
Mr. Gladstone himself, quietly contemplating our
difficulties, had announced that the laws under which
the compound householder existed were the result of
the civilisation of the age. (Laughter.) But as the
thing went on we got a little stronger, and our
opinions were more understood. Months afterwards
the Liberal party themselves proposed to do away
with the compound householder. What was the
course we ought to take ? We had insisted that no
man should vote who did not pay his rates. We
had sympathised with the compound householder by
having clauses prepared by which his vote might be
facilitated, and if he choose to come forward and
commit suicide, he would no longer be a compound
householder ; he would give up those privileges and
restrictions and pay rates. What was our duty to
do ? It would have been most inconsistent in us to
reject that. I say that the compound householder
bowing down, giving up his peculiar position, and
seeing that to exercise the franchise he would pay
rates, was the very triumph of the principle of our
bill—(cheers)—and in the municipal franchise to
show that household suffrage, which very much
influenced Lord Derby, could not be a very danger-
ous affair, he always used to refer to this—that when
the Municipal Act was passed in England every
man who fulfilled a certain residence, and paid his
rates, had a vote, and nothing could be more satis-
factory than the elections under the Muncipal Act
in its first 12 years. No man was ever elected
hostile to the constitution of the country. Ad-
mirable measures for the sanitary improvement of
towns were passed, but at last there was no
doubt considerable corruption in these muni-
cipal elections, and there was a committee of
the House of Lords, and a report by the com-
mittee to Lord Grey on the subject ; they re-
ported that everything went on admirably in the
municipal elections until the compound house-
holders, who did not pay rates, were allowed with-
out paying rates to vote, and the consequence is that
by the alteration in the law you not only prevent
the compound householder voting for au English
burgh, but you prevent him exercising the muni-
cipal franchise, and therefore we have greatly imp
proved the municipal elections in England. (Cheers.)
Now, my lords and gentlemen, you have, by what
I have told you, some notion of what a speech in
detail is in the House of Commons. There must
be considerable zeal for party to induce you to
listen with so much attention to a narrative of this
description, and yet is it not expedient that state-
ments of this kind should be made by those who,
however unworthily, occupy great positions upon
these questions, especially when, week after week,
and month and after month, the enormous nonsense
that you have listened to—(hear, hear)—has been
circulated through the country, and, therefore, I
think that, as you have been so kind to me as to ask
me to be your guest and offer me your congratula-
tions and your encouragement for the work that I
have done, my observations are not altogether out
of place. I think I have shown to you, if you will
allow me briefly to summarise what I have said,
that we were perfectly justified as a party in dealing
with this question, that it ought to bo dealt with,
and that we have dealt with it in a proper manner.
(Hear, hear.) I think I have shown to you that
the story that we have democratised the country
by establishing household suffrage is a fable. I
think I have shown to you that the assertion that
we have misled and betrayed our friends by giving
up all securities which were talked of is unfounded,
and that we have carried on our bill on the prin-
ciple upon which we have always insisted. But if
I am right in this assertion, pardon some feeling
on my part when I remember that it is in con-
sequence of my conduct—in consequence of
our unprincipled withdrawal of those securities—
(laughter)—and the betrayal of our friends
who insisted upon being betrayed —(laughter) —that
I miss to-day the presence of one of my oldest and
most valued friends. I should have liked to have
been. welcomed by his cordial heart, and by that ripe

scholarship which no one appreciates more than my-
self. He has commemorated the withdrawal of his
confidence in a letter which, strange to say; has not
a quotation. (A laugh.) I picture him to le— if
at this moment in the castellated shades ,- se
Thurso—
(laughter)—with the Edinburgh ReG....few on one side
rlicLervative surrender.tten the summary of
and on the other the Co
(Laughter.) He who hay written
the scasion in the Edinburgh is not mounted on the
fiery barb of Francis Jeffrey !, Le is rather placed on
a hearse horse, with whict he consummates the en-
tombment of Whit! principles. (Loud laughter.)
The Conaervat;:re surrender—to borrow an expres-
sion from the pleasing volume of art of my friend
the chairman—is what one would call a replica. You
find the subject treated in speeches, in articles, in
reviews, and sometimes in manifestoes. (Laughter.)
The colouring is not without charm, but the draw-
ing is inaccurate, the perspective is false, the subject
is monstrous. (Great laughter.) Far be it from me
to discover a man from his style, for it is thus com-
memorative for ever of the character that knows you
under these circumstances. If, therefore, I make
an observation on the " Conservative surrender," it
is founded entirely upon abstract principles. (Laugh-
ter.) I should say that article was written by a
very clever man who has made a very great mis-
take ; the leaders of the Conservative party are
traitors, the Conservative party are false; they do
not know they have been abused ; they have not
recognised that their confidence has been betrayed and
outraged. (Laughter.) I see many gentlemen here
who have been, I have no doubt, inspectors, like my-
self, as magistrates, of peculiar asylums, who meet
there some cases which I have always thought at the
same time the most absurd and the most distressing—
it is when the lunatic believes all the world is mad and
that he himself is sane. (Laughter and cheers.) But
to pass from such gloomy imagery. Really these
Edinburgh and Quarterly Reviews, although no
man more admires them than myself,—l admire
them as I do first-class, first-rate posting horses,
which in old days, for half a century or so,—to use
a Manchester phrase, carried on a " roaring trade."
Soon there come some revolutions or progress which
no person ever contemplated. They find things so
altered that they do not understand them, and
instead of that intense competitiOn and mutual
vindictiveness which before distinguished them, they
suddenly quite agree—the' boots" of the Blue Boar
and the chamber-maid of the Red Lion embrace,
and they are quite in accord in this—in denouncing
the infamy of railroads. (Loud laughter and
cheers.) Now, it occurs to me that hitherto I have
been speaking upon the English Reform Bill, but
you must remember that I have been speaking of
an Act that has been passed, and that I have
already declared in a place even more public than
this that I thought the same principles, adapted to
such changes as the laws of this country require,
ought to be adopted in Scotland as in England.
With regard to the Scotch Reform Bill, there are
two points of great importance. One is the ext en-
sion of the franchise, and the other the increase of
the representation. (Cheers.) The other clauses
of the Scotch Reform Bill are really matters of de-
tail. But with regard to these two points I will
repeat what I have stated in other places—that it is
our intention to extend to Scotland that ample and
considerable increase of the franchise which we
have established in England. The next point is one
of much more difficulty and delicacy, and I think it
requires your very earnest consideration. My opinion
is that in due consideration to the increase of popu-
lation, of wealth, and of the tax-paying power, and
other influences, the representation of Scotland
ought to be increased, but when you come to the
mode by which you can increase it you will find very
great difficulties in the way ; and I say at once that
unless the Scotch members can forget for a mo-
ment all party feelings and will support the Govern-
ment, whatever that Government be, which is pre-
pared to increase the representation of Scotland, no
increase in the representation of Scotland can pos-
sibly occur. "'Having given most deliberate conside-
ration to the subject my opinion is that you cannot
increase the representation of Scotland unless you
increase the number of representatives of the House
of Commons, (Hear.) I do not express the opinion
as a mere abstract opinion formed by reflection upon
certain circumstances. I say, as one who is and
has been a leader of the House of Commons, and
who knows something of the character, disposition,
and mind of members of the House of Commons—
and I am certain as that I am speaking now—that
there is no other mode by which the representation
of Scotland can be increased. You will have fifty
other modes—(laughter)—before you, and some of
them proposed, I am sorry to say, by members for
Scotland.• Nothing is more easy than to point out
a class of English boroughs, for example, with a
small population, and contrast their circumstances,
social, commercial, and political, with some flourish-
ing places in Scotland, and form an argument for
the enfranchisement of the places in Scotland ; but
the people of England know that they are represented
at present by 500 members, that their members have
already been diminished to increase the representa-
tion of Scotland, and that they do not believe—
various as their opinions may be as to the distribu-
tion of seats and disposition of power—they do not
believe but that they can completely dispose of them
for their own use, and will not let Scotland have
one, and I do not blame them. And permit me to
say I cannot blame them therefore. If any members
for Scotland join in taking means to disfranchise
boroughs in England with the idea that they are
obtaining them " for group boroughs" or divided
counties in Scotland, they will find that in the last
scene of the pantomime all changes in the disfran-
chised boroughs are apportioned from the small
Einlglis be hry th
cityess o Scotch city ; therefore it
w
for smorthaellpeople of Scotland to make
English
up their minds on this subject. So far as the Go-
vernment are concerned, they will, at the earliest
opportunity, when they meet in February, bring
forward their Scotch Reform Bill. They will propose
a considerable increase in the number of Scotch
members, which must be finished by increasing the
number of the members of the House of Commons
—(applause)—and they will stand by that proposi-
tion if the Scotch members support them. (Cheers.)
I don't mean to say that there is no inconvenience
in altering the number of the members of the House
of Commons ; the number has been changed before
this, and the question is not whether you are to in-
crease it, but whether you are to increase the num-
ber of members for au adequate and proper purpose.
(Applause.) It is said, if you increase the number
you will have every twopenny-halfpenny borough
that rises like a fungus in the night, and gets a
population God knows how—(laughter)-where
they come from, •or where they go to—for they often
as soon disappear—clattering at the door of the
House of Commons. My answer to that is, the
good sense of the House of Commons would imme-
diately put an end to such an appeal ; but when it
comes to the question whether your ancient nation,
which joined us ou equal terms—(loud applause)--
from its altered circumstances, should receive in-
creased representation, I believe that the good sense
of the House of Commons will fairly consider that
question, and they will say that there is no cabalistic
charm in the number 658. With regard to the
question of education, ever since I have been in
public life I have done everything I p )ssibly could
to promote the cause of the education of the people.
I have done so because I have always felt, with the
limited population of the United Kingdom, coin-
pared with the Imperial position it occupies with re-
ference to the question. it is not only our duty, but
it is an absolute necessity of the State that we should
make every man the most effective being that edu-
cation can constitute him. It was said in the old
times that one Englishman could beat three mem-
bers of some other nation— (laughter)—but I think
if we want to maintain the power of England we
ought to make him equal in the business of life to
three other men that any other nation can furnish.
Therefore, as far as I am concerned, whether it
be after a more greatly advanced system of
education—whether it be that system of com-
peting which I have ever supported, though
I am not unconscious of the pedantry with
which it has been accompanied if I eve
wanted au instance at any time to convince me of
the advantage of national education, I should have
always referred to the country of which I am now
the guest. (Cheers.) It has been my lot, as it has

probably b eP-
seat. + _Ls the lot of the majority of those pre-
'
T " ..) have found myself in many distant lands—
i have never been in any one without finding a
Scotchman, and I never found a Scotchman who
was not at the head of the poll. (Laughter.) He
was prosperous ; he was thriving ; often the confi-
dential adviser of persons of the highest position,
even of rulers of States ; and although I myself am
inclined to attribute much to organisation and to
race, I am bound to say I never met a Scotchman
yet, even if he were the confidential adviser of a
Pasha, who did not tell me he owed his rise to his
parish school. (Cheers.) Well, gentlemen, under
these circumstances, do not suppose for a nioment
I at all depreciate the system of national education,
but I think no person who has candidly and com-
pletely examined its details but must acknowledge,
though the principles on which it is founded are
admirable, the application of these principles is not
certainly complete and extensive. I can only say
that, since the report of the commission upon your
schools was submitted it has been considered by the
Government, and I hope that in this session we
shall bring forward a measure upon national educa-
tion which will be successful, and pass the Legisla-
ture ; and if we can give you a good Reform Bill
and a good Education Bill I think you will remem-
ber the last year of the old Parliament with feelings
of softness and regard. (Laughter and cheers.)
Gentlemen, I may be allowed to say one Word upon
the subject of education generally. I think myself
that the issue that has been raised is in a certain
sense a false issue, but as it touches very great prin-
ciples and the character of the nation, I would say
myself that I do not believe that in this United
Kingdom any form of education founded upon a
compulsory principle, and forcing every part of the
country to adopt the same system, could be success-
ful. (Hear.) I am not prepared at this moment
to believe that the same system ought to be ex-
tended to every part of her Majesty's dominions,
and I am not prepared to admit that the British
nation generally is au, uneducated nation. (Hear,
hear.) On the contrary, so far as our primary
education is concerned, no doubt the multiplicity of
our education and the value of labour have pre-
vented that complete education in a primary sense
which is to be &sired ; but if you look even to our
primary education as compared with the primary
education of other countries for the last 30 years it
may not reach in some respects the point which
other nations have attained, still, as a whole, during
these 30 years the advance in England has been
greatest, but I deny that the education of the people
of England differs merely. I am talking of the
general population in regard to our system of
primary education. I say that the technical edu-
cation of the English artisans, especially since what
I may describe as the Albertine movement took
place—since Albert first laid down those principles
which have been carried out in the localities affected
—the technical education of England has been ini-
proved, and if you come to mere secular education
there is an influence prevalent in England which
exists in no other country, and which forms in a
very great degree the character and opinions and
conduct of the English people, and that is the in-
fluence of a free press ; that influence is never con-
sidered. The press of this country, conducted by
whatever party, is, on the whole, conducted with
great energy, with great intelligence, and with high
moral feeling, and it perhaps imparts a secular edu-
cation to the people of this country, which none of
the boasted climes that have been held up as models
we cannot rival can for a moment compete with. I
do not care what may be the opinions or feelings of
those who conduct the press of this country. It is
immaterial whether they are animated by a high
moral feeling or motive, but this is quite clear—they
cannot successfully direct their labours to any great
class in this country unless they give that class credit
for that high moral feeling, and therefore, without in-
dulging in any cant upon the subject, I say the condi-
tion of our press, which for energy, general intelli-
gence, information, and moral feeling cannot be excel-
led, is a proof of the souud condition of the country and
of the progress of secular education highly profit-
able, which is at present going on. I cannot deny
that the great measure which has been passed this
year will give, in some degree, a new character to
our Constitution, and introduce some new powers
and influences into its action ; and, indeed, to ac-
complish such ends was the object of those who
brought it forward. I hear every day that in con-
sequence of the changes that have been effected, we
must expect great questions will arise, and I should
be sorry that great questions should not arise.
(Hear.) Great questions are a proof that the coun-
try is progressing. If there were no great ques-
tions it would only show that we are in a stagnant
state ; but we ought to contrast the present state
of affairs, when the Reform Bill of 1867 has been
passed, with what was the state which will be re-
membered by my noble friend the Duke of Buc-
cleuch. (Cheers.) Whatever different feeling
there was in the country at that time, no one can
believe that the st ise and experienced men of those
days were afraid of the Reform Bill. It was not
the Reform Bill that was brought forward by Lord
Grey, the eminent statesman, who produced that
alarm ; it was the way in which that Reform Bill
was passed ; it was the bludgeon and the brickbats ;
it was Nottingham Castle in flames ; it was cities
like Bristol that were sacked. But contrast that
state of affairs, with what was our experience. We
have had a riot, a little riot, just to show that we
are freemen. (Laughter.) We have had, as we
had in 1832, violent opinions expressed, but in 1832
they were expressed by men of mark—by men who
influenced opinion. By whom are they expressed
now? By the nincompoops of politics—(cheers
and laughter)—by men more absurd than lludibras.
(Continued laughter.) If you consider the different
position of the country at these two periods, it is
very remarkable. You passed a Reform Bill then,
and everybody was frightened ; they were so
frightened, that they collected together and believed
that the only security against further danger
was the associating together to prevent further
change. Now we all feel what an error was that.
It is as fallacious a triumph in politics as in science
to suppose that you can establish a party upon re-
sistance to change ; and for this reason, the change
is inevitable in a progressive country. Change is
constant; and the great question is, not whether
you still resist change which is inevitable, but
whether that change shall be carried out in defe-
rence to the manners, the customs, the laws, and
the traditions of a people, or whether it shall be
carried out in deference to abstract principles and
arbitrary and general doctrines. One is a national
system ; the other, to give it the worst epithet which
it may deserve, is a philosophic system. But,
although they both have very great advantages, this
must be remembered. The national system is sup-
ported, no doubt, with the fervour of patriotism;
the philosophic has a singular exemption from the
force of prejudice, but the national system, although
it may occasionally improve by its advanced views
the condition of a country, precipitates progress,
and may occasion revolution, and destroy States.
(Hear, hear.) Now, I have always considered that
the Tory party was the national party of England.
It is not the freedom of a combination of oligarchs
and philosophers who practise upon the sectarian
prejudices of a portion of the people. It is the
freedom of all classes, from the highest to the
most homely, and it retains a series of institutions
that are inherent and ought to be in practice the
embodiment of the national requirements, and the
security of the national rights. Whenever the
Tory party degenerates into oligarchy it becomes
unpopular, whenever the national institutions do
not fulfil their original intentions the Tory party
becomes odious ; but when the people are led by
their natural leaders, and when, by their united in-
fluence, the national institutions fulfil their original
intentions, then the Tory party is triumphant, and
then, under Providence, it will secure the pros-
perity and happiness of the country. (Cheers.)
Events may now be occurring which may in-
fluence the condition of Europe and affect the
position of this country. For my own part, I should
not be doing my duty if I did not express my con-
viction that it is not only the interest but the inten-
tion of the great powers of Europe to favour, and to
favour permanently, the cause of peace. But no
doubt, whatever Ministry may have to regulate the
fortunes of this country, whatever may be their

abilities, whatever may he the favourable circum-
stances they can command, they are nothing without
the confidence of the great mass of the nation, and
without the encouragement which assemblies like
these must give to all. (Cheers ) For myself I assure
you, encouraged as I have been to-day by the cor-
dial kindness with which you have greeted me, I am
the last man who would attempt to depreciate the
difficulties which a British Minister has to meet, or
would attempt to exaggerate the qualities which my
colleagues possess. Indeed, when I remember the
interests of these British isles, so vast, so various,
and so complicated—when I recall to recollection
the differences of race which, however blended, leave
a very significant characteristic ; when I recollect
that the great majority of the population of the
United Kingdom rise every day and depend for their
daily sustenance on their daily labour ; when I re-
member that it is on the common sense, the pru-
dence, and the courage of a community thus cir-
cumstanced that depends the fate of uncounted mil-
lions in ancient provinces, and that around the globe
there is a circle of domestic settlements that watch
us for example and inspiration ; when I know that
not a sun rises on a British Minister that does not
bring him care and even inexpressible anxiety—an
unexpected war, a disturbed and discontented colony,
a pestilence, a famine, a mutiny, a declining trade,
a decaying revenue, a collapse of credit, perhaps
some insane and fantastic conspiracy—l declare I
feel very often I wonder where there is the strength
of heart to deal with such colossal circumstances--
(cheers)—but when I withdraw from the pressure
of individual interest and take a larger and deeper
view of human affairs, I recognise that in this
country, whatever may have been the tumult
and the turmoil of our now almost countless gene-
ration, there have been three master influences that
have at all times controlled and commanded our
powers and passions, and they are industry, liberty,
and religion. (Hear, hear.) So long as this sacred
combination influences the destiny of this country
it will not die. (Cheers.) History will recognise
its life, not record its decline and fall. (Cheers.)
It will say this is a great and understanding people,
and it is from such materials we make the magni-
ficence of the nation, and establish the splendour of
the terrestrial globe. (At 11 o'clock the right hon.
gentleman concluded, amid enthusiastic cheering, a
speech which occupied upwards of two hours and a
half in delivery.)
The VICE-CHAIRMAN proposed " Her Majesty's
Ministers," for whom Lord JoHN MANNERS replied.
Mr. LAWSON gave " The Two Houses of Parlia-
ment," for which the Duke of MONTROSE and Sir
GRAHAM MONTGOMERY responded.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
" The Lord Provost and Magistrates, and Pro-
sperity to the City of Edinburgh," the toast being
answered by Bailie lIANDYSIDE.
The remaining toasts were —" The Duke of Buc-
clench, Lord-Lieutenant of the County ;" " The
Agricultural, Commercial, and Manufacturing In-
terests of the Empire ;" " The Chairman," " The
Conservative Press," " Mrs. Disraeli," " The Vice
Chairman and Croupiers," &c.

THE ABYSSINIAN CAPTIVES.

+ -

The following communication, written by Lieut.
Prideaux, one of the Abyssinian prisoners, appears
in the Pall Mall Gazette :

" Magdala, Sept. 7.

" A few days ago messengers again arrived from
Gaffat. The news they bring from the King's camp
is of the most unsatisfactory nature. Prisoners in
chains though we be, our position seems to be far
more agreeable than that of the unfortunate Euro-
peans who are in a state of semi-confinement within
the royal camp at Debra Tabor. His Majesty seems
now to set no bounds to his cruelty and ferocity.
When I last wrote he was on a plundering expedition
against the small island of Metraha, in the Lake Tana.
Every inhabitant of that place he consigned to the
flames, with the exception of three Gondar mer-
chants, who had fled thither for security, but who
unluckily reckoned without their host, for they were
plundered of their property, and are now lying in
chains in the camp of the tyrant, and are frequently
tortured for money. Shortly afterwards the King
made a trip to Ifag, one of the most flourishing little
towns in Foggara, on the north-western portion of
Begemmeder. The place was surrounded, and 1,500
of the peasants captured. These were burned alive
in five large houses selected for the purpose. It is
said there is not now a single man, woman, or child
alive between Debra Tabor and Emfras on the
borders of Dembea. In the camp his Majesty has
been playing the same game. It was reported to
him that 2,000 of his soldiers wished to desert ;
they were surrounded by theothers, and their throats
cut like cattle. For two days the camp re-
sounded with the report of fire-arms ; the mothers,
wives, children, and nearest relatives of these
wretched men were being pistolled by the soldiery.
Ladies of good families, the wives of the chiefs,
were stripped naked and tied to posts, where they
were exposed to the noontide glare of the sun ; after-
wards they were tortured with ropes, &c., until a
pistol shot put an end to their sufferings. Un-
mentionable barbarities have been perpetrated on
the miserable women ; 295 chiefs of districts have
had their hands and feet cut off, and then been
left to die of starvation. Still the King's position
does not improve ; desertions continue daily. The
last expedition he made was against Belessa, a
small province between Begemmeder and Lasta.
The peasants, who are more warlike in their
temperament than those of Dembea, stood their
ground, bravely, and for the first time in his life
the monarch of Abyssinia was repulsed by a hand-
ful of ploughmen. They were led by a certain
Lij Abita, a very old friend of ours, who was for-
merly attached to the King's household, but lately
seized a favourable opportunity for escaping to his
native province. The royal troops occupied a piece
of rising ground, and the rebels were posted on a
similar spot about 400 yards distant. Between them
was a piece of rough and broken ground difficult to
be ridden over. They therefore did not venture to
come to hand-and-hand fighting, but contented
themselves chiefly with hurling defiance at each
other ; on the royal side the King was the only man
who did any execution, he being armed with an ex-
cellent English rifle, with which he amused himself
by taking pot-shots at his opponents, and I believe
he did kill bur or five of them. On Lij Abita's
side, one horseman rode down into the plain and
killed a couple of his adversaries, carrying off the
silver mounted shield of one of them, and quietly
chaffing his Majesty as he did so. Not one of the
loyalists' ventured to follow him. His Majesty then
retired from the contest and returned to Debra Tabor
muttering threats of future vengeance against the
disloyal mountaineers who had dared to defend not
only their homesteads and cornfields, but the
very lives of themselves, their wives, and their little
ones, against their Sovereign, and at the date of Mr.
Flad's letter (Aug. 11) he was preparing to march
against them with four or five of the little cannon
his Europeans have made for him. This, however,
is probably only bluster, as generally he never can
execute what he threatens. If he comes at all to
Magdala, he will probably do so this month ; and
for his advent I can assure you we are not at all
anxious. Another repulse like that he encountered
at Belessa would quite destroy his prestige, which
is his chief bulwark at present. In Gahint, the
southernmost district of Begemmeder, there is a
powerful rebel at present, named Syoom Warregna,
who is said to be determined on fighting should his
Majesty pass by that route ; while should he re-
solve on the other—namely, via Waddela and
falanta—he would have to encounter the soldiers
of Wagshoom Gobazay in the former, and those of
the Galla, Queen Diastyat in the latter district,
these chieftains having billeted their soldiers on the
peasants during the rainy season. Daunt, between
this and Gahint, is also occupied by the Gallas. So,
after all, there are difficulties in the way of his
coming hither, and we earnestly hope never to see
his face' again. But still the name of Theodore may
assist him, unless the brave peasants of Belessa give
him such another thrashing as may convince every
one that it is but a name after all. No messengers
have arrived from the coast since I last wrote, now
six weeks since. This is probably on account of the
rivers in Tigre being now full. Thank God, with
the exception of poor Cameron, whose iron consti-