The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-08 00:00:00

•
a secret despatch; they cou'it have no scruple iu produc•
ing a puttlic correspondence. (Hear, hear.)
The Eail of DERBY—I certainly heve no se iris to
complain that the noble earl sheuld have aveiled himself
of the present opportunity to pass an eulogium, in some
respects well deserved, on the conduct a Lord Canning;
but I must say he has done injustice to those who sit on
this aide of the house in stating that when they occupied
the benches opposite Lord Catining was subjected to any
attacks from them. (Hear.) Ou the cottrary, although
from information we possessed we thought there were
great reasons to doubt the propriety of some pares of the
conduct of Lord Canning, the language we unifcrenly
held while sitting on the other side was that every allow-
ance ought to be made for the unexampled difficulties in
which Lord Canning was placed, and we studiously and
carefully forbore to prejudge or condemn any portion of
his policy. (Hear.) I must say, my lords, that the
complaint of the publication of those papers comes with
bad grace from the noble earl opposite, because it was
he himself who, with an intensity of interest which your
lordships must have remarked, last night urged upon the
Government the instantaneous production of these docu-
ments, and it was in order to satisfy his natural anxiety
to have an opportunity of calling attention to the sub-
ject before the mail left London on Monday next that
my noble friend the President of the Board of Control
consented to lay the papers on the table in the course of
today. (Hear.) The noble earl, however, was riot
satisfied with that promise, but he earnestly pressed upon
my noble friend and myself the necessity of producing
the documents then and there. (Hear.)
Earl GRANVILLE—The noble earl was not in his
place yesterday when I addressed my first question to
the President of the Board of Control, and he seeing to
have forgotten that before I opened my mouth on
the subject a member of the Government in the
other house had promised to produce the papers to-
day. (Hear, hear.) The President of the Board of
Control agreed to lay the documents on the table
of this house, but that wag after a similar promise
had been given in the House of Commons, and it
was at a subsequent part of our sitting that the
departure of the wail being fixed for Monday next, I
urged the necessity of producing the papers yesterday
instead of to-day.
The Earl of DERBY—The noble earl has given us a
rather long explanation, but Ido not complain of it. I
only say he is not the person, having urged so strongly
the immediate publication of the papers, to find fault with
us for laying them on the table. (Hear.) I admit that
the premature and partial discussion of so grave a ques-
tion at the present moment may be productive of incon-
venience, and that inconvenience has been in a great
measure caused by the practice, exceedingly prejudicial
to the public service, of putting questions without suffi-
cient notice to members of the Government upon diffi-
cult and important subjects. (Hear, hear.) At the same
time, recollect what the circumstances in the present in-
stance were. A proclamation appears in the public press;
it is read and commented upon out of doors, and a mem-
ber comes down to the other house, and asks a member
of the Government whether he has received the procla-
mation in question, and, if so, whether it meets with the
concurrence of the Government. What was the particu-
lar form of expression used by the Chancellor of the
Excheqasr with respect to this proclamation t Ido not
think your lordships need inquire, though the noble earl
holds a different opinion ; but it would have been im-
possible for the Government, that question being put to
them, to abstain from expressing their opinion relative
to the character and nature of the proclamation. (Hear,
hear.) Observe what the proclamation was. It was a
proclamation issued at the conclusion of successful ope-
rations against the capital of Oude, declaring that
from that time, with few and partial exceptions,
the whole of the lauded property in Oude—not public
property, but the private property of every individual
landholder—was confiscated to the service of the Go-
vernment. (Hear.) We were asked whether we ap-
proved that proclamation. Our answer was that we had
received a copy of that proclamation as it was about to
be issued three weeks ago, and that we had thought
it our imperative duty forthwith to express our opi-
nion that, taking the proclamation as it would be
seen and read by the inhabitants of Gude, apart from
any instructions which the Governor-General might give
to his agents for the purpose of mitigating its apparent
severity, it would prove most impslilic land most inju-
rious to the public interests. (Hear.) We felt it to be
our duty, on receiving the proclamation three weeks
ago, to send out to the Governor-General that expression
of our opinion, but when the noble earl opposite comes
to read the despatch to which he has referred he will see
that we have made allowance for the position in which
the Governer-General was placed, and that, although
we have expressed our opinion as to the inspolicy of the
proclamation, we have not taken upon ourselves the re-
sponsibility of ordering him to withdraw or rescind it,
but haVe simply expressed our anxious hops that in prac-
tice, and in accordance with what no doubt was his own
intention, the apparent severity of the proclamation
might be materially mitigated. (Hear.) Less than that
it would have been impossible for us to do. God forbid
that I should seek to vindicate what has been done by
the people of Oude ; but there is a broad and manifest
isistinction to be drawn between the mutiny of the army
and the revolt of the people, (Hear.) The mutiny of the
army ought to be and must be followed by wholesome
severit y and punishment. The revolt of the people has
enlisted in its favour a large amount of sympathy, and—
there is no question about it—it arose out of acts of
doubtful policy upon our part. (Hear.) It was not a
mutiny of those who had eaten mar salt and sworn alle-
giance to us, bat the revolt of a people who thought—l
am not saying whether rightly or wrongly—that their
native Sovereign had been unjustly dethroned, and who
rose as an armed nation against those whom they con-
ceived to be usurpers and oppressors. (Rear, hear.) It
is absolutely necessary, upon all grounds of policy and
justice, not to speak of humanity, that in the treatment
of the vanquished there should be a broad and palpable
distinction drawn between the mutinous sepoys and
the revolted but loyal people of Oude—loyal I mean
to their own native King. (Hear, bear.) The punish-
ment to be inflicted upon our rebellious soldiers is the
punishment due to treason, but the people of Oude ought
to be dealt with like people who have been conquered in
legitimate warfare, and I know of no instance in which a
people having been so conquered were subjected to the
sweeping declaration that, with few and partial excep-
tions, all their private property should be confiscated to
the use of the victors. (Cheers.) Da I say that it might
not be necessary to issue a proclamation to the people of
Oude, and even to threaten with confiscation those who
continued to stand ia arms against us ? By no means ;
but for putting an end to future strife, anti inducing the
great landowners—who, like the feudal proprietors of
former times, are chiefs with armed retainers, men of im-
mense wealth and influsnce—to came in and subject
themselves to our authority, the course was not to drive
them to desperation. It was to hold out a hand to those
who might be willing to acknowledge our rule, and I
could not have complained of this proclamation iu sub-
stance provided it had teen reversed—if that which ap-
pears as the qualification had been made the main article
and that which is now the main article hal been made
the qualification. If, instead of proclaiming the confisca-
tion of all estates, with the exception of nose persons
who might come in and receive the indulgent considera-
tion i f the Government, proclamation had in the first in-
stance been mtmde, that the Government were ready to
receive wi h every degree of iudulgence those who had
been seduced into revolt, and to restore the lands, pro-
perties, and possessions of those who might have been
temporarily in arms against them, provided they at once
submitted to the clemency of the Government and pro-
mised allegiance to the Sovereign ; but that, on the other
hand, those who continued in revolt must expect no
mercy and ne f irbearance, bu- that they would be sub-
jected to the just confiscation of their property for con-
tinuing to carry on a hopeless struggle—l think that in
that case the Governer-General would have held out
to those great chieftains of Oude an inducement to
come to his terms and to submit to his au-
thority, which would have materially shortened the
struggle in that country. By taking the other citurse—
by driving these men to desperation, he was likely to
protract the struggle, because these chieftains bad noth-
ing but their arms to trust to for the maintenance of
their property. Therefore I think her Majesty's Go-
vernment would have failed in their duty it, when that
proclamation reached them, they had not intimated to
the Governor-General their opinion of its policy, and
had not expressed their hope—and they had done noth-
ing more—that in practice he would see reason to
miti-
gate to a great extent the wholesale confiscation which
the proclamation itself was likely to convey to the minds
of the people of Oude. That is the course which her
Majesty's Government have pursued. It may have been
—I think it was—unfortunate that a question should
suddenly have been asked, the conserpence of which
has been the production of this letter ; but it would have
been impossible to satisfy the public mind that the Go-
vernment of this country had not neglected the interests
of humanity if they had allowed it to be supposed they
sanctioned and consented to the issuing of a proclama-
tion apparently confiscating the property of those whose
crime was not to have mutinied, but to have been in
arms against our authority. (Hear.) The noble earl
opposite has said that at an early period Lard Canning
was blamed for too much clemency, and that he is now
apparently blamed for too great severity. My lords, what-
ever may have been said of the too great clemency which
Lord Canning was supposed to have exhibited towards
the Sepoys, 1 thick the noble earl will do me the justice
to recollect that when on that side of the house I can-
didlyand plainly stated that I thought Lord Canning's ex-
planation had satisfactorily vindicated his conduct, and
had removed every imputation which had been cast upon
him. (Hear.) What I complain of in this case is that
Lord Canning has not drawn the distinction which it it,
most important should be drawn between the mutinousSe
pays and the rebellious people of Oude, and that he is treat-
ingt
with great severity, or apparently intending _ a
m
to treat
with great severity, men who have been guilty
of
paratively trifling offence. The noble earl
Canning
asks from
whether
we have recalled or intend to recall Lord
the Government of India. We have no such
Ginotveecrtnioonr:
and the communication which wassen
was studiously
General with respect to that
proclamationt to
not consider it as
imposing upon him the so worded that Lord Canning should
necessity, in accordance with his
own honour, ofresigning the office which he now holds.
We did noteven go
sofar as desire him to recall the
proclamation--we only expressed a hope that he would
act upon it in a merciful spirit. The same view appears to
have occurred to Lord Canning himself, for the last para-
graph but one of
the amended proclamation which ap-
pears in the public papers seems to indicate the existence
in the mind of the Governor-General of an intenti n to do
to a certain extent that which we urged upon him the
neccsity and propriety of doing. (Hear, hear, from Lord
Grey.) But that mitigation did not appear in the original
proclamation, and it was to the original and not to the
amended proclamation that the despatch which has been
sent to India had reference. (Hear.) lam glad to be