The Sun.
London, England, 1867-06-29 00:00:00

The resolution was carried amid acclamation.

Sir J. GI:1Y, M.P., who was received with loud
cheers, then addressed the meeting on various points
connezted with the Reform question, and declared
that the Irish Reform Bill ►would not have been
withdrawn had the Ministry known of the true
union between the English and Irish peoples, and
he asked to be allowed to bear the resolution just
passed to the Ministry, so that he might show, he
said, amid loud cheers, that the people of England
had the warmest feeling towards oppressed Ireland.
Mr. LAYARD, M.P., then came forward and was
received with cheering, which was again and again
renewed. He said he was unwilling to attend this
meeting for more than one reason. Mr. Mill—
(cheers)—had shown a devotion to the cause of
Reform that might well be followed by other metro-

politan members. One reason why he (Mr.
Layard) had abstained from taking part in these
meetings was that he felt in a different position to
Mr. Mill from being a member of the late Govern-
ment. He felt unwilling to give rise to any sup-
position that he was desirous of throwing impedi-
ments in the way of the Government, or, in other
words, to be factious. Whatever might have been
his opinions, what he had seen during the last few
days had convinced him that, unless the agitation
which had gone on of late were continued, and unless
the full pressure of public opinion were kept on the
Government, the bill which was now going through

Parliament would be in its main features and essen-

Bally a restrictive bill, and not a bill of Reform, but
opposed to Reform. On the question of redistribution
of seats it was said that there was to be a compromise.
Now, he thought that the present anomalies were so
great that the country would not put up with them,
and he, for one, should advise the people not to take
any half measure, because, then, the weak-hearted
Liberals who had hitherto deserted their party would
say, " They have met you half-way, and it will be
as well to give this up." (Hear.) This question of
redistribution of seats was as vital a part of the Re-
form question—no less vital than the reduction of
the franchise itself, and the Government must be
forced to concede a full representation to the large
constituencies. (Cheers.) He was not in the secrets
of the Conservative party, but he believed that they
deeply regretted already rejecting the moderate pro-
position made a short time since on this question.
Bat he really pitied that party. (A laugh.) They
were rejecting one day a proposition which they were
ready to support the next, and proposing things
which they were readily brought to throw over. But
the party had been brought -to begin a work which
they must continue. They rejected the moderate
but honest measure—(cheers)--of the late Govern.
ment, and he himself was received with those noises
which Mr. Gladstone called the "inarticulate ex-
pressions of opinion," noises which were like nothing
so much as the sounds issuing from the Zoological
Gardens. (Laughter.) If he had devised means
of revenge for this treatment he could not have de-
vised a more effective revenge than the appearance
of the country gentlemen in the house now, for they
were in the position of persons upon whom a peculiar
Japanese ceremony of twisting a sword into the
bowels was being performed, so much did they
writhe while engaged on this bill as in the utmost
agony and extremity. (Laughter and cheers.) Since
the passing of the Reform Act the most libmd mea-
sures had been brought forward, and it must be a re-
sult of this bill that the franchise must be further ex-
tended so as to take in to a certain extent the agri-
cultural population. (hear.) He then proceeded to
speak of Mr. Gladstone,at the mention of whose name
the whole meeting rose and cheered, and he bore testi-
mony to the earnestness, the consistency, and sincerity
of that gentleman, who, he said, was well entitled to
be looked to as leader of the Liberal party. He then
proceeded to say that the manner in which cer-
tain members of the House had acted in opposing
a measure of Reform one year, and then, in de-
ference to excitement out of doors, proposing one
the next, was sufficient to destroy the faith of the
country in the character of public men, for he
said the Ministry had only brought in this bill
when they found that they must give a Reform
Bill or abdicate. One thing must be said for Mr.
Disraeli, though he was acting to the country party
as if he had really sworn, as it was said he had,
to be their ruin for the discouragement they cast

upon him when a young man—(a laugh)—yet he
had succeeded in breaking up the Liberal party.

This was a question, however, which would have
to be settled on the hustings at the next election.

(Cheers.) Whatever became of the present bill the
Conservative party were pledged to household suf-

frage, and the bill shorn of all dodges would be a
household suffrage bill. When this was obtained,
and an equitable distribution of seats with it, the
people would be as near manhood suffrage as pos-
sible. Ile concluded with moving :—" That in the

opinion of this meeting the redistribntion scheme of
the Government cannot be regarded as even a tem-

porary settlement of the question. It is unfair and
deceptive, seeking through the instrumentality of
increased representation to the counties to counter-

act the wide extension of the suffrage at length

given to boroughs, and while retaining members
for small and decaying towns of 4,000 to 5,000

inhabitants, leaves Marylebone, Finsbury, West-
minster, Lambeth, Manchester, Liverpool, Bir-

mingham , Leeds, Sheffield, and Bristol, without

increased representation.
Mr. PRICE was then announced to speak amid
loud cries of " Mill." Silence having been obtained
for him, it was announced that he was a working

man, who had made good use of his time, and
he proceeded to speak with remarkble force, and in
a manner which enchained the attention of the
large meeting, even at the late hour of nearly 11
o'clock. He urged the meeting, amid loud cheers,

to keep united, that the present truculent Ministry,
who, he said, had Virice placed London in all the
throes of civil war, should be ousted from power if
this question were further paltered with.
The resolution was carried.

Mr. PROBYti proposed the following resolution :
—" That, in the opinion of this meeting, the Na-
tional Reform Associations are bound to continue
their present organisations, in order to secure a just
redistribution of seats, the ballot, and such an ex-
tension of the county franchise, as will give the
suffrage to the great bulk of the inhabitants of the
numerous large county towns and villages which,
with a £l2 rating franchise, would remain excluded
both from borough and county representation."
Mr. BEALES, amid cries of " Mill," was called
upon to second the resolution. He commenced by
saying that he regretted to stand where Mr. Mill
should stand, and to this there were cries of
" Hear." He proceeded to speak of the Hyde-park
riots, and announced that the League, of which he
was the head, was about to hold a demonstration in
favour of the Irish Reform Bill. The course of his
observations was stopped by a cry of " Time," fol-
lowed by some disturbance in the part of the hall
whence the cry arose, and the speaker, in a greatly
excited state, said if the person who uttered that
word was present at the meeting a fortnight ago in
that hall he had no business there that evening.

Mr. MILL, M.P., in coming forward to second I
the resolution, was received with the most enthu-
siastic cheering. He said there was not the slightest
need that he should address the meeting, for all
that he should have thought it useful to say had
been anticipated by some speaker or other who
had preceded him, he hoped therefore they would
excuse him. (Loud cries of "Go on," and cheers.)
Considering that many of those present were his
constituents, he certainly felt that they had a right
to know what he thought on the subject of the
redistribution of seats, and he would therefore
at that late hour very briefly tell them. (Cheers.)
He thought, then, that if the Reformers
were willing to continue to do their duty
they would agitate until they had got a far
better Reform Bill than the one then before
Parliament upon the subject of redistribution.
Above all, no Reformer ought to be satisfied
until the large towns obtained, not three members
here and there, but a great number of additional
members. When he spoke of the large towns he
naturally included the metropolitan boroughs, which,
even upon the single ground of of population, were
entitled to a large increase of representation. But
all the large towns were entitled to an increased re-
presentation, not only upon the principles advocated
by the Liberals,but upon the principles even of their
opponents, for Mr. Disraeli hal himself declared
that the conutits ought to have a much larger re-
prescmtation than they had at present, because,
taking the whole population into account, the
counties were more populous than the towns. If
that argument were good for the counties it was
good for the large towns. London contained
3,000,000 of inhabitants. Now, if they allowed to
the counties 12,000,000, then, according to the ratio
of the population, London ought to have one-fourth
of the whole county representation of the country;
therefore London would be entitled to 40 or 50
members, and other large towns to a proportional
increase of members, this increase, of course, being
at the expense of the representation of the small
to wns. But he would invite the meeting to look
more closely into the question as it affected the
counties. Of what was the population, consisting,
of eleven million inhabitants in the counties, com-
posed ? First, there were the landlords, and next
the farmers ; but these did not constitute the whole
eleven millions ; there were the small shopkeepers
and the professional men living in the small unre-
presented towns, though it was not known how
many of them would have votes. But even these
did not make up the eleven millions. how, then,
was that number made up ? Why, it was made

up by the agricultural labourers. Now, he should
like to ask whether there was any gentleman who
would stand up in the House of Commons or any
other place and say that the landlords as county
members represented the agricultural labourers ?
Why, those were precisely the only people that
the agricultural labourers ever had any dispute
or quarrel with. But let them look at the subject
in another point of view. These agricultural
labourers had no votes, nor were the landlcrds dis-
posed to give them any ; but if they possessed no
votes the Conservatives had no right to count that
portion of the population as forming a part of the
county constituencies. But sometimes it was said
that, although these people were not represented
directly, they were indirectly or virtually repre-
sented—that was to say, they were represented vir-
tually or indirectly by those who had the same
interest as themselves. lle would ask, had the
agricultural labourer the same interest as the land-
lord and the farmer? It might be all very true to
say that they had all the same interest in the long
run ; but mankind were influenced by their imme-
diate rather than their remote interests, and if he
had any immediate interest to be settled he should
much prefer that the man who had to decide the
matter should not be chosen from persons who had
opposite interests to his own. (Cheers.) The town
and borough members were better representatives
of the agricultural labourers than either the land-
lords or the farmers. The town members had no
disputes with them ; they were not their masters ;
they never disputed with them about their wages.
Moreover, it was their wish to educate the agricul-
tural labourers, while the farmers did not want
them to be educated. They said it made the
labourers too independent, and they wanted them
to labour at an early age, and therefore it was im-
possible for them to go to school. He did not apply
these remarks to the landlords, many of whom were
very desirous that the agricultural children should
be educated. But, after all, things might and
would, no doubt, go on much better, even between
the farmers and the labourers if it were not forthat
accursed gang system. Now, the town members
never had anything to do with such things as gangs ;
but, the system having taken possession of the agri-
cultural interest, he could not conceive that any man
would choose to be represented by a person connected
with it. Then, again, there was the gamekeeper, whose
word was law ; it might be denied, but it was a great
pity that every now and then something hap-
pened that gave a great deal of colour to the state-
ment. A recent case had been brought to light by
a clergyman of which the world would otherwise
have known nothing. A gamekeeper, who had pre-
viously had an accident of making a mistake in
charging a person wrongfully, made another mis-
take in swearing that two persons had been seen by
him in the act of poaching. The father and mother
of the two delinquents gave positive evidence that
those two persons were in their houses the whole of
the night. They were disbelieved and the game-
keeper believed. One of the accused was dis-
charged, and the other sent to prison; but while