The Sun.
London, England, 1804-07-03 00:00:00

EGYPTIAN• MONUMENTS.

Mr. Rose Drought op a Petition from the Tuts.
tees of the aritish Museums praying a grant of
the min of, 16,0001. to enable them to make
an addititin to the , British Museum, in order
to secure those valuable Monuments from the effects
of the. weather. The lion. Member stated, that
the application had the sanCtion of the Crown, and
that the object of the Petitioners Was to provide
suitable apartments for the preservation of invaluable
monuments of antiquity, which had been acquired
by the valour, intrepidity, and skill of our Troops;
in an Expedition seldom equalled in the annals of
any country,•and which were now tinder a'alte4 ex-
posed to the injuries of the weather:
Sir JOHN SiNCL,AIR thought the sum a consider.
able one, and wished to know whether it was in.
tended to submit thoPetithm to the consideration of
a, Cotnmittee, 'or to vote the sutn. in the Committee
of Supply, without further investigation ?
Mr. Rosa. replied, that he did not propose to
vote moo than half the SUM this Session. All that
could be done during the recess would be to lay the
foundation, and no money would be laid out but
what was absolniely necessary,:
•Mr. Ft ANC is wished to have stated to the House
the nature of the monuments which required a sum
of t6,0ool„,to provide thein with a shelter from the
Weather. • ' •

Mr. Wistottma thought it an objets of much
gfeater importance, if it was desirable to lay ow a
sum of 16,00a1, to know giat it was to be corn.
mitred to prOper hands.
The CitAilcaLtos of the EXCH Vlt stated
the ohjen to he not merely to provide .a saved's&
but a fit residence for these important monuments,
as well as for any others which, the accidental
circurnst:mces, or the zeal tat individuslet might
hereafter supply ; and he trusted, whf.n kith was
the °Neel, that the House would not be disposed to
cavil at the amount of the sum, which would be a
disgrace to the national magnanimity.
Mr. SHER titAN did nor mean, to oppose the ap_
plication, but if the Museum were to be added to
at the public expense, he trusted thest some measurei
would be taken to affird greater facility for the ad.,
mission of a larger proportion . of the Public to the:
enjovniept of the exhibition.

Mr, Wm. SM ITH thOusht that too little had been
expended on objeets of so much interest to the na.
tional charatter and taste. As the matter had been
explained by the CHAN C R1.1,01t of the 4CH PciU ER.
he thought that but one sentiment could prevail in
the House,
Sir ArttAt Ati YOUNG- VillalCated the Tiustiesof
she Museum.

The, Petition was onletetl-to lie on the Table.

The CRANCILLOR of the Excutgova moved,,
that the Emitnate and Plan, alluded to in said Peti.,
tionr be laid .before the }louse.

-After it few words in explanation from Mr.
13ANICits and Mr. Rosa, the Plan and Estimate were
orderctl.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

The CHAPICKLI,OI( of the Excsisqvatt. moved
the Order of the Day fir the }Lithe to go into a
Ctimmitice of Supply, and that the Reports of the
Civil List, of the last, and likewise of the present
Sessi"nt and the several Accounts relative thereto,
together with the Achlitional E.timates for the
pltvy, the Sietril •Leone Company, .the African
Ctstnpany, and the Veterinary College Extimatp,
be referred to.--,Ordeted.

The Rouse having rescle,ed into the Committee,:
' Mr. A.LRXANi/ER in the Chair',
The CIiANCE.LLORof thr EXCHEQUER ob.
served, 'that ' as: tree state of His IVl:ejes!),./s Civil
List had been so fully before the fieuse, in the Report
both of the last and the pre3ent Session, it would
.not be necessary fur him to detain the C,ommitree,
, by. dwelling at any length upon the.subjed towhieb
he proposireoeall the 'attention of the Committee;
The Reports skewed, that a considerable exceeding
hid taken place in several atticles- in the year t. 8024
heyondehe Estimates of t 787. This exceeding, it
appeare 1, hie; taken place only in acuities of three
descriptions ;---first, in the third class, which come
ptehereied the S..laries and Establishment's of Foreign
Ministers ; next in the fourth class, eomprehendin‘
the
.Expences of the Huthelecild ; and lastly, in:that
class of Expenditure, ranked under the head of Ogee
sional payments. Many of the items of increase
tender this. head, arose from the addititinel eipenceei
Of Foreign Service, from objets of internal police,'
from the augmented expences of the two Haulers, of
Parliament, from secret f areign services; and the
additional expence in Messengers, in conscquence4
the renewal of hostilities. The H :Use, on the groundi
stated in the. Report of tßgt, had voted .a sum todis-
c'earge the arrears then due on Hif M qesty'sCivil
List, and when they had voted that sure, ,it had ette:
peared tri be their, opinion that some further arraege_
merit should 'he . mule- to .trovitle against the IICCS.!
MUlAtiOn of debi on it ilefuture ; but Onemeasur- brief
been since taken tooquelize. the Revenue to the ek-
penditure. Two years a•ni a half had since elapsed;
and the debt, which he had then to Proeose in rneke
a prevision f arneunred t a esto,ooce.
wou'd perceive .that; the debt enethe Civil List
was last year zeotooo'.; the actessiott of it sieve
bad been oitly' in e pr yortion conforewthle to. this
gradual excess of cite expenditure -over the foriwr
there was besides aeettall debt which had not
been (,sought to account in 18oe. The Right Hen.
G,!-ntletnen, therefore, hoped tense on the- ground on
which the-House had-lfranted the money in tßos,
to discharge the debt affeaing,tter, Oivil List,, there
t'Vauld be no objeetion to vete, in the.present in-
'stance,. the sum necessary, to liquid ice 'the -debt
that had since accumtilateel. -With respca to the
the feetre stare of the il 'List,' all the Cort.
mine--; that had reported on ne steelecl hid agreed,
that tnete were many cheers that otielit. te be
tranaerred to the Retimetteit ermually voted by the
Hoes e, most rif theM new ire theiteeteture, or cat+
tied to an extent not foreseen in the torm'r Eel".
111.1t0. Many of those arose tram the War, foto
the internal circumstances and siltation of tke
Country, from increesed Law Exeene;s, from the
Additional Expence for Stitionary foe Parliemente
from the 'arrangement for the improvement of both
Houses, .and from the Multielicition of Private
none of which ought properly to be ch aged-
on the Civil List. It wou'd also afford a foe.
titer Inducement. to relieve the Civil . hest frets
such Charges, that 'they might. vary with cite:ult.,
stances, and !tome of them even be diminished on-tii&.
recurrence of- Peace. Many ton wenid increase'
from the effeft of that inclease in the objects of Lee
gistation,' arising nut of the growing prosperity og
the ,Country.'filse Charges came' all under the
heed of' Occasional Payments, but it was net his
intention to propose to transfer them all to be. an-
nually voted, but such a prnportioti of then as
would PM 111111 to rite Sum of 135.P001. , on the
Scale on which they were estimated tot the present
year, anti which would he subjet to some, ditnine.
tion on the return crf Peece, 'ln, addition to the'
Expencea of Printing ,for the Court of Exchequer, for'
the Houses of .Perliame:nt, to a Provision fur the
Officers of Parliament, to Law Charges, and certaiii'.
allowances Sheriffst they would else include 4
Provision for the French Refugees, Clergy and
Laity.- The other heads
,were of a politicel nature.,
In the Estimates of 1787, no allowance --had been
Male far Foreign Secret Service. A Sum was
usually voted by Pariiatneet, under the- head of
Secret Service Money, which 'was generally, insufa-
cient, and. the deficieney was made up out of the
Civil List, but in future he 'ett-tee'flsOle
Estimated Expence Shottle(be laid before the Hoteeee
in order to its being provided for by Perliem-ne.—
The extraordinary alloweeces to Foreign Minist.e.ese.
and the extra Contingencies in the 011 ice of Set:eatery.
of State in War, could tent have nettle any pare of ra.
Pence Estimate.. The seholeof the Stints for Civil,
and* Political Purposes', from which he proposed tee
tdieve • the Civil-List, would be, as he begoes'
stated, re- meg'. This he did not think proper
3,
vote at present; beesentioned it milk ley -way of
explanation of What- he meant to submit to the
House on a future day.. The Other preposalthae he
had to mike, was a Grant of a positive addition ,to
the Civil List. The etaition, he trUsted, 5v,414
appear to Gentle Men moderate, when t 4 vas consi-
dered that the necessity of making ix etroacealsiellir-
from the increase strider the Hied4"TeitiesMeli't
Billsi- in the different Departments of His. 41/140
jesty's Household, in that' of 'the Lord Ciente.
berlain, of the Lord Steward,' a ci Master
the Horse, and of the Master of the Robes. Nes
Gentleman who rcfle'ted On the very Conattlerahte
rise-that had taken piece in the price in every Artie
'etc of -domestic accommodation, could be eutenizert
that Ilia Mee Mr had not confined his ExPences
under that head, within limits that hail beep
marked out so long Since. An increase of *et,
o!. or Got. per cent, had taken place it, such arti-
cles since 1787. The expences *rider this heel
chergeable on the Civil Lilt, amounted in do* to.
218,0001. anti he was convinced that a positive ade•
dition of 6tetegol. to meet the increase in the differ
rent articles, would appear moderate, especialleee
when it was considered that these were articles that
-most' intimately contributed to the-caitiff:sus uleveryi
branch of the Royal Family. It would alio be a.
satisfaftion to the House to be assured, that they
who bad the superintendence 'of the, disbutsemeeus,
were studious in avoiding any unnecessary expencee-
These formed' the chief addition to the Civil List,.
for it was apparent, that the other charges under
the head of Occasional Payments, grew out of
:the political circumstances of the Country. its
the article of Pensions, there was a diminution
:rather than an increase, being this year teectmele .
less them in 1802. Rite were to propose; an inereese,
in proportion to the depreciation in the
of money, and to correspond with the pregrossiel

itter 'age of other.rstablishments,iit would not;by
any olfititS, be unreasonable. but, however desir.
able, it be to furnish His Majesty with the
means,of exercising his benevolence on a scale befit.,
- ring a great nation, he, in consideration of the pres.'
Sure of the circumstances of the times, proposed that
' the Estimate under the head of Pesssions, should he
taken at 92,0001. as it was in rßoz. The only
other kern in which there was any teal excess, . was •
in certain allowances to the Foreign Ministers, and 1
this Would not exceed 80001. There was another
instance in which there would be' an apparent in.
crease. When His IVlajesty's Civil List liad been
settled, the sum of 58,p001. was. granted to the
Queen to cover all the expences of the Royal Family,
and it was thought, right nowthat Parliament
Should enable Hip Majesty to grant the sum of ,
pool. annually !Rim the_ Civil-List, the allowance
to her Majesty being altogether insufficient.—This
would create a charge 42°,0001. up' in the Civil List.
7he. whole amount then of the charges to be voted
annual 'y
would be 135,0.061. The Estitnated.Cliarges •
on he Ci 111..ist AntrlUtiled 975,0001. ; the Re venue of
the Civil List not.. quite :labium to 90bk0301.. ;
St appeared, 'however, that certain fees s hich had
been added to the,Civii List, raised it to 92 1,0001. ;
which left a deficit of 64.00001. The Right H',n. Gen.
tletnao, tltcref.ire, proposed to 'vote a positive addi.
tiou'ot 60,00&.,t0 the Civil , and
,trusted that
the .grounqs he had stated would be so satisfaelory. •
to the Comnitt lee, that ,they Would feel rt:;•tig.
linnet to adopt his propositions. Ht. conclu l LI by
inowipg,‘s. That the sum o 1591,8; 11. be granted to
111 S Majesty, to inake'rod the I)elits on the Civil
List, up tA, the dist. inst. , ,
BANKES,t.aiti, thatit, was generally expeEt.
etir When the t.tst application ,w.tts..ffiade to Parliament
for a discharge of the 4ddsrs of
,the,Civii List,, that
measures Would-have' been taken to prevtot re•
cuetenci of a simitsr application in 'wore, by gu std.
ink against. the accumulation of arrears. This titlrre
might, in his jnrigineot, have been produced, if not
silt.'gether avoicleil,,hy. attending to the proviiions
Air.lll) a X t torn whicb ,vas sorry to observe
an almost total departure for rt ~.y years back. The '
Non. Member. thought that seer) an appication as
the present, which went to Ana, e a,perin silent ad.
vance in the amount of the Ci it List, ought to have
been accompanied by some proposition upon the
same principle as Mr. Bet SKS 's Bill, which should .
serve to regulate the expenditure of that 'List. Poi
x 6 years previous to the year i Boz, the arrage of
the Civil List 'Debt was not. nylre than 80,4001.
onnuady, but for the two last years that average had
trebled. The cause of this increase he particularly
...wished. to have explained. The lion. Meino,r
-there proceeded to animadvert upon several items of
~
the ate. out upon the table. The sums under the
teat, of Special Sts,r %Oct-. for' Ike last two years, struck
Lim as rather extratirdipary. The 4.0.0001. for F. 4
reign Minisiersj he thought, should be Specificoly
accounted f,r. Ile did • not like this. way of lump.
ing. it. .It might lead men to coteture that it was
made a cloak fur the application of the. public money
to inyroper purposes. At the same timelliat he
expresSed a wish that the House mid.' the Public
should he satisfied upon this point, he begged it to
lie 13,14.15r00d, that, tar from-desiring to abridge .she
.I,cr 'Mr Ambassadors, heentersaineti a hope
that 8,.1,,,11 a; ~winces wnuld,be augmented, so as: to
ceiricuit the rank and suitable accommodation Of bur
DipLma:ic Agents.. . tinder the head of the tord '
Chamberlain's C.)lser, anti Particularly with respett
to the B )ard of Works, he observed a considerable
increat., beyond former years. For the augmenta.
",ion of the allowance of presents, &c. tit Foreign
.14iniTters.wititin the-last .year, he could not conceive
a reason.. tic meant that kind of allowance granted
s.,,for executing CiinVentiOns, 'T'rea'ties, Stc;.'as there
were none such that he recollected. Yet .this sum
.1114eriallyr exceeded tie expenditure fors:, .‘siotilar
c.
purpose in the year. previous to the histWar,'wlien
many Convetr ions ;old 'friatiett with Foreign
-• PolverS "We're' excess -n)ight,
perivarre.• !saves. ..proeee.derl fr.; nt p reits t
States; but of *this he ss islied to •be. in.
ri" are ;I (id n" `os' r tit s,r,'s for, loss at
Cgtogartheiar-st4o,--Inrativance o.ecio!. ► hich mat!
• , for die, 0,0021:. .1 lilt Veils'o,n•Liit.,
,Whidhltati bettrtiolict 11.");
andjifiercfc►t•
eiliete was nn %.*'t t!, t„•tIlL unblic,. The ,
4'414 itto a 1 7g.xpvwe to thr.U'fi::iilleq;ree.
,Se-
cretaries of pirate, hich Wit! leSti ~,
77;0331.
d.t.Ppe_titerl tu'hith partiodarly exlll,lo.ltion.
Omm,e of those ()Meet Nov no douhkniew, t,d'he did
'tor tnekrr Ati-contend'e that .it was tiiineceNsitfy in
War • hut uppil.the pttlirn of Pence, ‘...lienever. it
alinuld arrive, Ile hoped 'it ):),q)uld'be'd;),n:
-The -Hon: ,IVieinbee-stattalJhitv-apprithalion of the
proposal' of his Right;, don, tralisi.el4
3ntil4r4,Fttod.-those ellatges which- did 1101,01opetiy'
belong to the Civil List titre wa.t mother item•
rt an the , `rable upon which the Hon.
Member confessed. that he could tint. touch witbo4t
pain,:bnrhis sense at duty woulthnot -suff+hito f()
overlook it. • 'Phis was an adViince of 26,0001. 10
the: D ihux?. C It t NC v, Which 'was ji) be .retesd
' by 'in"-mehts, and of which 70001; were still due.
. If the ...Salary of that Illustritsuk Personage, of any
other hranch of the Royal, Family, were. found:in.
4litiquire- to provide for the ioniforts which belOng-.
cv she station they Occupied,i lie would be ;as-
1111dy as any man to consent to any y increase thk
!night be raceisary
~;',..bUt lie disliked the priaCiple
of such- crecaoanal sdisoCes ss, that-;to which he.
d. It was a • coinplete deviation - from the
spirit Anti Setter of Mr. Bouxt's Bill. It 'tended.
. to disorganize the whole System of the Civil List.
It'wouitilarrve to place the Princes of: the'Slood in
a kind of dependence on the First Lord of the 'rm.
Silty, who might, if this pratalce were-tolerated, ad..
Vance any sum be pleasedin this etandestine manner,
'without the 'consent of Parliament, to any person he
chest accommodate, whether that person belonged
t" the • Riayal, Family, or nor.. Fur it was hard to
vsay- to 't hat in tXltrit the principle might be carried.
111,1. • indeed,' in, ont instance, been extended to
a Military bificer .(Major.Gentrol Citiot Nast), to
Whom above 2QOOI. had been advanced, with the
of.repayment.at the. rate Of 3001. a year,
nor a guinea of which had been yet received. iHow
'cable. it, he' asked, that. the performance of Such an
,s!ngagement was not enforced by thOse Who had the
Means of doing so, by dedueling froui•the Salaries
thrY had to-pay t The *next poor' to
.whial..l6*

Hun. Member called theattentintluf the House, was
the deficiency the tees' of Ulcersin the `Frei..
miry, which amounted to ts,oool. a sum equal to!
the whole salary of the higher Officers in that dc.
partment. How such a deAciency gre,w up he wish.:•
ed to learn. Upon the whole, indeed, of the items'
to which he bad alluded, he was anxious for expla.
nation ; perheps that•explanitiori might remove his}
ibiultts.—Aoubts he called them, for there W Hirtithiogl
in the Report to which he abs-lutely objetled, but:
the occasional advances he referred to. To the:
time-at • which this proposition' was 'submitted; he
could not help saying,. that he hal much Ohio -thin,
At such a crisis as the present, when the Country;
had such bus !hells to hear, and such ra en-
counter, he did not think'it was decorous or fitting':
fio make this application on the part' of the Crown.
As it was determined to make it, however, it was
. incumbent on 'His .Majesty's 'Ministers to couple'
with is some measure io prevent the farther accumn.:
lation debt 'in this departMent.• :He had heard,
• it Said, that such a general measure was imprac.
; but this ,assertion was not borne out
by the experience of many years immediately
succeeding she enaftment tit Mr. BO:tees Bill.
was evident 'that 'either some-means must be
' adoptedof keeping the expences of this Department
within the Revenue assigned, or a necessity would
perpetually recur of tesorting to Parliament in the'
way 'then before the House. After recapitulating
several of his cfnestions, the Hon. Gentleman ad.
misted that, Wit permanent addition to the Revenue
of the Civil Litt were deemed necessary, dm ar.
rangernent could not be put on. a better footing ,than-
that proposed by his Right Hon. Friend: He ex.
rted the •Treasury, with whoin the cuntrool rest.
e-1, to keep all the Government. Offices within die
silks of etonomy, and not permit'extravuganie of
oty, kind. A trio:,i the Other explanations required
by t:te Hon. i.onan, he requested to be inlortn:d
'uf the amount 'of she four•and half per cent-. duties
`which were appliCable to,-the purposes of the Civil
List, and also of the other resources which were ap.
plicablein aid of that Fund -
the CHANCKLLOR of ib'e EXCHEQUEIt he-
gin by- coMplimentlng the *fair and pith:twittery
manner in which his Hun. Friend had stated hit opi-
nions. The principal voint upon which his ltut.
Vriend 'seemed to liesitite as to the propriety of
concurring in ;he ,prop_isition before the H 'use was
this, that the time of War was not that witic:i ought
to have been seleCted for an applicatisin
nature ; hut, in answer to this obje,qioi,, he would
. say, that it was become necess:try to AO one Of two
00gs—either •refuse to the Throne 4A adeduate
phowance, or to break in upon the establitilitwot of
itoyaity; and he did not believe that there was a in in
who, in any eircumstancee, would, merely fora Siving
of so or 60,00.61. consent to an abridgment of that
dignity hien t lined a necessary part of-the Mod
starchy, and therefore formed a necessary patrol out
Constitution. Thie, however, must be done, or elsi
we mustlo on suffering the debt of the Civil 'List
to accumulate in time of war, and shards} the nemi.
•sit y oimaletog good the payment of it in tituestipeace;
but he would submit it to the judgment of the:House
and the Public, whether it Was nut better, even antidit
• the premiere of war, at once to provide for she dis-
charge of this arrear, and also, to guard, as much as
pusitillogainst the recurrence of such debts,,than to
•adopt either of the Alternatives he had referred to
To state the dilemma in which, his Hon. Friend's
I:o)jt:dion., would place-the House, was, he. was satis.
fled, quite enough to ensute their assent to the propo,
• sition he 'had the hotiour to submit, a. proposition
, which had for its Oka the support of that increased
expence of the Crown, which arose ncxfromoily d spa.
anion to prodigality or extravagance,' bps from that
enhancement in all the necessary article, of life,Whieh
had taken place since the revenue' of the Civil List
was last fi xedond Of which every iudi v idualin private
life must be sensible. The arrangement he propos-
ed, it must be Obvious to 'any dispassiOnata man, hash
nit view to any, advance in the quantum of magnifi•
cence; or the indulge tides whichishOuld belting to the
R ,y,al Family. as she dilly intention was to enable
that Illnstrtous Family to maintain the rank which,
adeniding to the'grant of 1186, it was admitted they
'ought to ' the-nuly etre& of the proposed
•• addition would be to equaliie their Revenue 'to- the
change olcircumitances which had taken plaCe,he was
confident that there wits not one of tehe Constituents
of that House, whoilmuld.itatTeonsidetthat economy
. extremely misplaced, whielirshould, under such cit.
.eunbtances, call upon His Majesty's Family to re.
',trench their .neceseartrexpences,,pr reltie assent to
the proposilion in plehite, pa tiettlaily when it was
rec lietted, that the. Civil List was but a commute.
, !ton wh,c: His ;;I,sly had accepted on his acces-
t;ti it, to the throne, t6r 'a large hereditary; re. venue,
W!len it was considered how long His Majc•stYhad,
'• hdtTily fur. this 'COOtitty, occupied the 'throne, for, a
• perish Finger almost (liatt any Sovereign 'to be fohrid
in our history ; When the grow,th .of the 'reveout,
• which he' had surrendered in riechange, Wds taken
into aconsideration, he was 'sure it woul.l ad.
tlittit'd, that a' Call upon.: Parliament for an advance
of 60,0001. a year fn hii.Rettenue, and the trans.
fee to another food "of clsims which'do not at all
• belneg to the CiVirtist,, according to its original
cont.autition,fornished no fair ground of objetftion; fur
' he begged it to he distinctly understood by that; House.
.hnd the Public, that that branch of the hereditary ft—
Venue Which habeen enjoyed by His Majesty's pre.
• decessors, and in•lieu of which he had thought proper
to accept theCiiiilList,hadsofir advanced slut it noW
amounted to between 1,40cL001. and i',5'30,0001.
‘l..year; From thii; therefore, it appeared, that 'the'
Addition of 60,0001. to gobsoobl. a-year left a con.
sidersble balance in favour of the Public. He 'would
put into the candour of theHoute and the Country,
whether any proposal could • stand upon fairer
'• groinids—whether any -thing could be' imagined
• moreself.evident, and less liable to- mi,itake At to
ittiother point in the speech of his Hotr; Friend, which
recommended the pioposi t ion of some measure of gene.
ral regulationsupon a principle analognits to that upiin
'which Mes Burke's was founded,- he- always'
thoutiht ,that•such a measure was impraaieable, and
, ih this opinion he warconfirmed from a consideration
of the nature, and altnowledge of the,freas
kiirkes.system, which was fowil-to be quite ioap.
Heti the 'Right Hon. Gentleman took oc.
casion to state the, execs* in the expenee of the Civil
List bed by no
...weans- proceeded,. as hrs Honour.

able trand prof-emit& to think, from an improisey at 4. --
tention.to Mr. Burke's Ildl, but froth finding that', •
a change ofcitcumstancrtshad rendered a eltiscatten.'
don to that measure impratticable. He hoped that
his condufl for 'some- yeAts after tilt enaelment of • .
that Bill was Aiteh as to shew,, that if it had failed ..
of 'it's objed, that failure Was not to be attributed to
the want of a sincere desire upon his part, -and that
of hil,, Colleagues iii 'office, to carry it into corn.
plete•execution. • That, .indeed, was an At which
fell fit short of the hips of its .amh-r, and, in
•
its operation, he :saw that'a projeel tray be ' very,
tine In description, and' good in theory, 'which inay .
have a different aspell wbfn it comes to be a•praPicalT
measure. To the mode of classing the'creditors of
the'Civil List, in the Atialluded to, theGovernmene
with which he had the honour of being conne6led,
had al ways adhered. • No preference was ever given:
to any but the Royal Fatuity, the Judges, and' '
the - Foreign 'Ministers, and upon all the other'
classes' the , debt was suffered• to fall in equal p-rp..,
portion. The Right Hon. 'Gentleman, Bolt ever,
dwelt uptinalie Corniequences.Which would result from
a rigid adherence to the letter of this All, portico.
.larly in. regard to the extintlion of a debt which,
shottid. he suffered to go a certain number of quartets'.
in arrears. This, straily afted upon, would, he as.
prehended, expose the Royal nuttily themselves to
have their salaries stopped.• The measure altoge.
then was not reducible act, pradice, nor did he think
any 'thing of a similar nature would he efNitial.
All'he'thOught advisable or necessary Was, that, in
case the'Civil List should at any future time be in ,
debt, and he could not pretend to provide-against
such an event, Parliament should be immediately ap.
ptiied ill the existence •of suell'iltiebt.: ,For this
purpose he would have no objeflion to ihtroduce a
clause, into the -Aa, which Was meant to be grounded
upon the 'Resolutic:to of ' the Committee ; such a clause
enjoining, that whenever the CiVil List shoUld don.
!rad a debt of 'a specified ainoutit, or whenever it.
shout() be la certain time in a rrear, the f...a ,houkl-bc
laid before Parliament. This appeared to him to
be the most simple mode of proceeding, anti the only
'plan that Occurred too hire a!; necessary: After the
circumstance of the•debt should be laid before Parlia.
ment, then it woultl,become a Subjen fOr coosidera.
lion What tOurse, to follow. Further particulars might
berealted far, and , the littlest iovestigati,so might
take p1..C0,, it .it should 'appear to be necessary%—
, This idea would, he hoped, melit the wishes and be
calculated to answer the of fa which his_lion.
Friend sought for. Ai to the explanatiim required
by itislimaric nal, respeil big the lid derived to the
Civil List from the +-1. per cent. duties, and other
funds, htec;:ittlil state to his Honourable Friend and
the House, that this a'.Alvao insignilvant iiuited: :\d.
verting:to the Avances made Iferlie ljttit E dfCl.lt•
R ENCe-Itid (idler& GAP DM o,lt, the . Right. lf.n,
Gentleman presumed that it !would .he 'mind the ,
stipulaied intitalllloo,‘ were
,tlCdtlaed from their 114.
lades. He did Ott mean to, state it positively, as
lie• 11311 triode MI Inquiry'on the subj!ilf.'
'Here Mr. il:tx.F.s stated acrosa the' Yible, 'that
the contrary appeared to be : the .W..i, from
,the aC.
r.unts before, the Ilowe.).
Mr. Purr ieitinied..• ‘With respe% to the ptin.
eiple of occasionally- advancing money. :to persons •
connected With the Civil List, whete the cause ap.
peared 16 be pressing, and not otherwise, he difi!red •
Widely from the opinion of his 'Hon, Friend. Such ~
advances, he admitted, Ought not to be. frequent,
and 'annuld,he made only 'upOrt ekiratfrdintry raeca.
sions; bpi in point of tact', theadvartceS alluded to
by his. pion. Friend were not of such 'rmounf,' as
much to alarm the .jealousy of the House upon this
subjea. .As to the •allusiMis of his Hun. Friend;to •
the Selieral. items of the accotinis on the table, he
most say, that he w,as nut prepared'to satisfy him
• but, he was at liberty to move for any dom. •
ment he thought necessary to the full explanation •
of the points, he referred to.' With many or most
of the points adverted to by his llon. Friend, he had
no immediate concern, but yet he had no doubt that
they could all be satisfadorily accounted, foro lie
wished the Hon. Gentleman, the House and the coop:
tryo clearly to comprehend. every pars •of the state.
meat, and that every light should be thrown upon it.
1-le2bad no other desire than that it should be probed
to 'the bottom, in order that it should
.be seen, that
the application he had the
,honour to submit, was
the result of a . real unavoidable necessity, and
in no part of the expenditure. had Government ceased
to exercise a proper and vigilant contralti. Feel.
ing a just solicitude fur the credit of His Majesty'a
Goveroinent, .it, was .WS anxious wish that every
means illintild be taken to satisfy', the Country of
the truth of the 101,t he had Stated,' There were
many parts of the Household, ill which the Right
Hon• Gnitteman stated, that he maths his estimate
lower than was formerly fixed; particularly in the
Board of Works, alluded to. by his .Honourable
Friend. In .that department an increased expen-
diture had been incurred within the two last ) ears,
which was'not likely to recur again. It Aros: from
the fi;liog up Of apartments for the aceomm,dat ion
of some of the branches of His Majesty's Family.
In ahis'depart Mert, and also in"many others, he had
'1;l-t, it. his
:duty, to draw up a reduced estimate. He
hoped it would not he•fouttd 103 late, ana that in,'his
endeavour to prevent unneettiary expent, heihrauld
nut expose himself to the charge of laying a. del4.
sive statement before the House, or of contributin
to reduce the just claims of. any deseription of pc ~
sails.

Mr. 13Awicit'expltinea. - •
iippi Narchvareed in feivotti of the pro- I,
position before the Houte. The Right 1-lootombhle
Gaitlettran who Prtiposed it appeared to have rc.
plied in a' prtiper and parliatnentary rtizirMer tta his
lionottrable Ftiend on the tither side, by telling him
that lte,might have, upon mottart, piny -doturneht he
•desited, to eluciA;ite the hUbjcal uptin which he
had thought proper to auto-144,11. The Right
Hon. Gentleman went on to supp.)rteyerfarglitmoc
ahvaneed
,by Mr. Port'. I4e eXpfesSed 4particuhr
-wish fur a iuitabk provision to he allowed to out.
DiPlornatic Agents. fie chntended, upon the subjetl,
ot.MrtA43arke's that illo,trioui pernsn was
Itirwelt conscious of the difficulty of executing!thttr
Bill, and •tht oonteiousnesta .-ha nt.inifested, wher,4,'•
twine_.yors itter in enattnetit.„. ptoposition7w*s-
rwide and carted in that House; to alter tile Pr6v
siott& thAt Bill, without it single observation- frvfn
The Right Han, Gantlentaa vindicittid

the xtlvance fitule to, the Dula of C%eta t rIC
'which he deicribed .as the petin mance. of .r promise
Made to His Royal Highness r!otne. years hcfL,re,
thi; advance served to mieve
frinn acme difficulti:3 which then pres.eti nn him,
and any person who had a knowledge ti thecharm.
ter of His R ,yal Highness, could entertain no
doubt of .his stria attention to any stipulation
that he_ might have entered into. The Right
Honourable Gentleman took notice of the difFerence
between the proposed amount of the Civil List,
and the produce Of the. Revenue which had been fit.
changed for it, .obierving, that from this comparison
it was Manifest, :that Were it po,Sil;le, after a long
reign, forfora ditputed account to arise between:ill erte.,
sOlt!ntSovereign and an afkiiunotfPe,iple, the gains
would he 'found on the 'side of the latter. In the
proposettaugmentalion Of the-itilowance to the Female.
llraneLes of the Royal Family, the Right Honour..
able Gentleman expressed particular satbfattidn,
and concluded with stating his readiness' to afford
anyexplanation that might be demanded +i ith revel
to those parts of the account on the tattle with. which
he had had an immediate concern.

-Dr. L etIFREN(.'B entered into a long and Minute
defence of Mr. Burke's Bill, and dwelt on the pre.
privy of separating the different accounts yelating
to the Civil List. , He complained particularly that
the. Foreign. Politics were too little attended to,
while too much encouragementiswas given te
rX-
penditure in the:home department.
Sir Fit ANCtS ,BUPD /IT T found it impossible
to take that view of the subjeet, which the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite had done, The present
circumstances of the Country, he thought, rendered
any demand on the public purse extremely delicate.
The Right, Hon. GentlVliin opposite had argued,
that because the necessaries, of life were high, and
because difficulties were felt, even in the itigher
„walk, of society, we must, therefore,. necessarily
lay on a.liitional burdens on the general classes of
the pen.-le. So fee, however, rrom ;assenting, to that
proposition, he thought the very tevetse to he the
truth.. On account of the particular pressure of the
times,, he felt it his duty to oppOse any burden's on'
the people, but such. as were absolutely necessary.
He did not think it proper, that any additional re.
venue should be allowed w. the Prince at the et.
pence of the People, merely on account of the ell.
gency of tloa times, which muit fait equally heavy
on both. wished it particularly, howeveit; ici
be understitod as his opinion, at the same limes that
the Prince should not be tilt-tressed by any incon-
veniency of any description but the allowance
already made, he ilvoight sufficient fur every exi.
geney. He could trot help thinking, theref4e,
that there must exist some abuse in the distribu.
tiost,of the public money. The intster.Ce ti) it
was to be, drawn from this! t of his :Via.
jesty's Ministers was, that the Ciy is List
,VVAI l!Ot
adequate to the tletn:tnds that touSt bt.made cart at
but this would always be. the cose,',lle'argued.
nisters were allowed to apply. it what ma-user
dui though! proper. the Civil List ought, Mete.
fore,. not at' all tnexist, of the purposes to which it
was tolie applied, he coratepled, ought to be paid.
cularly specifvd. have n,) that
persons in real %limos all raid receive assiatatoce
from :die Civil List, but in the present circton.
stances of the PUlliltry; no other reason perhaps, could
be urged, or at least ought to be urged; far the die-
tribution of 'the, public money. lie did nut deny,
that instances might occur when particular to-Tit
might` claim a particular reward ; but, in this respect,
he thought Parliament had hitherto discovered no
very particular generosity. When he thought of
the Pension allowed to the gallant Lord Net.sota,
when lie.thought of. the gratitude Sir S. SMITH hail
experienced, lie could riot help thinking, that the
rewards they had met witli,werelmall indeed when
compared to those Sums lavished on others who had •
'IC. :Alin duties to fulfil. But there was yet another
article in which Ministers were very 'much to be
blamed, from the faceOf the accounts that now lay be-
fore the House. He did not see that Ministers Nil a
right to advance ro any niche Royal Family any peen.,
niary grants whatever.: Such giants alone ought to he
efi made by the House. Thei a...apparent particularly,
Itle argued, ought not to be dependent on Ministers for
the grant of any,advincei or ofsny semi, He would
take a future opporluttitar, he said, in Nom; stage of
'this business, to declare his sentitnenti mere
lie did not mean, however, to expross any hostilitt
ty to taxation in • general. On the contrary, "he
thought, th tt where the wealth of a nation was pro.
perly and judiciously taxed, instal's' of being any in.
coOvenience, it would retembie rather the vapours
that arc raised from the earth, by► the operation of
the rays of sun, and (hat again return in rains
and dews, enriching and fertilizing the Soil. It
was to the abuses of taxation only,. that V/Ji an
enemy, and to their. improper application.
Sir JOHN NEIPPORI' was of .'opleitro thettell
those estimates eliould be separated TroittAilt
List, that did nut belong immediately to the digit,
laity sand splendour of the Crown. He could nut
agree With the Hoti..Baronet who hail just sat down,
that the Monate!) ought not toile supported in pe.
rinds, particularly where extraordinary Expenditure
was necessary. He lvoulttappend to the French, if
they had tior found their 'situation worse, and rheit
expences increased, notwithstanding the, resist sort
they bed made to their old Government. He did nit
-wish, he said, to-see the c)enforts and colivenieneir*
of their„Staverelgn-abridged ,1n any degree, nor that
dignity, which' ought to ecchtnpany hie rank, in any
-way diminished; No private Gentleman, lie tikinglit,
,even in the Country, could give an exact statement
of his probable eipenecs for anyone year ; was it
'then lb be wondered at, he asked, if every item of
expenditure belonging to the Civil List, could nut
be accurately foreseen
APDITIPNAL NAvx,ESTIIVArESt

Mr. W. DtcxertsoN, in filiCg to wove, for a
grat;t' of 3t1,0001. for additional expellees *to die
DeNettneot, did I.( thmk it Iltectsary to
trouble the etammittee at length. lie would tmrely
sttateolut 15°,0001. of this sum was for three ships;
vessels from 40 co 6o ;tans ; the rest I-or-sloops,
gtto.visels, and mortars, thought oecevsery for the
preterwstri. ice, by the Admiralty Boatii, aid intr.
0,45 ed or coutratt.za forsihee the isth May.
Mr. jot NST9NE wislicd to know, whethrr a fur..
ther.suM, fOr the M'Aintettance of Semeen, tvet4not
be regaical in'isaidth than were 89,booSeirareo,