The Sun.
London, England, 1867-12-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LOND,JN, FRIDAY EVENING, DECEMBER ‘zO,

("11D1
• L .p 5. k. •

SUN OFFICE, 7 o'CLocs.

SPORTING INTEL LIGENOE—This Day.

ST.• ALBANS RACES—Tins DAY.

LUTON PLATE.

Port tiro
Oldminster
Guide
SELLING PLATE

Countess 8010
Carnbroe
Killarney
Eight ran.
The othor racas are postponed.

clout that the prison authorities were to confine
their attention to the inside of the prison and not
do anything to guard the outside?
Witness—That will be for the police to answer.
The governor nor none of the persons in the prison
knew what was done outside.

A Juror—lt is most important we should know
from the Commissioner of Police what was done for
the protection of the outside; at present there seems
to be a great want of precaution:
Coroner—l think so. Is. Inspector Thompson
here ?

Inspector Pottcr—No, but I can tell you what
was done to protect the outer walls previous to the
explosion. We had h:Ad frequent anonymous com-
munications. On the morning of the explosion
three or four plain clothes constables were
place.' at different points of the prison to
watch at:lief:Jed persons, and two o tiers
were appointed to patrol round the pri3:l)n.
I had never 11,:ard before that a communication of
the nature spoken of had been sent to the Commis-
sioner of Police.-- We had been informed of some
attempt t) rescue the prisoners, but nothing about
an explosion.
A Juror- •Then there ware al-nut four oflic3ra to
watch the prisoners in all?
Witness—There were three plain clothesmcn and
two officers in uniform. The latter would go round
the walls of the prison in about a minute and a
half.

The Coroner here directed that Inspector Thomp-
son should be sent for.

John Abbott—l am 13 years of age. Igo to
school of an evening. I can read the Bible,, and I
know it is right to tell the truth, and wrong to tell
lies. If I take God's book into my hand, I know I
must tell the whole truth, and nothing else. lam
now a patient in St. Bartholomew's Hospital. Be
fore the. explosion I lived at No. 5, Corpora_
tion-lane. On Friday last I was at home in
the afternoon, and at a quarter before four
the explosion took place. I was then standing at
the door. I .first. 1331 V something on the other side
of the roal on the footpath. It was covered over
with a white cloth. It looked like a large basket,
and was quite close to the wall. About a minute
after I saw a man come across the road from St.
James's-buildings and go over to the barrel. He
lifted the cloth a little off it. He had two
squibs in his band. He put one on the
pavement. There were some little boys then play-
ing with the lighted paper. They picked up one
of the squibs, and the man put the other into the
front of the barrel. The two boys offered the man
a piece of paper alight, and then the man lit a luci-
fer. I did not see where he took the match from.
I then saw him light the squib in the barrel with it,
it began to fiz. The men stood for about a
minute. He had one foot on the kerb
and the other in the gutter. When he saw the
squib began to flare he moved away. When the
squib had burned about half way he ran away.
When the people saw the man run away they also
ran away. The ,man went towards Rosomau-
street. Mr. Bird told a policeman, and as he
walked towards the barrel it went off. I first saw
hat the thing under the cloth was a barrel when
the man lifted the cloth off.

Coroner—What did the policeman do?
Witness—Before he got to the barrel it went
off.

Coroner—Would you know the man who put the
light to the barrel?
Witness—Yes.

Coroner —Have you been to the priaon to see
come men there?
Witness—Yes.

Coroner—Did you see there. the to who put the
squib to the barrel?
Witness—No, sir.

Coroner—lie is not one of those whom you saw ?
Witness—No, no.

Coroner—You would be sure to know him
again ?,

Witness—Oh, yes, sir.

Coroner—How long did you see the barrel before
it went off ?

Witness—About four minutes.
Coroner—Did you see a policeman go by during
that time ?

"Witness—No.

Coroner—Do you know the other boys that were
playing ?

- Witness—Yes; I was on the doorstep when I
first saw the barrel. I was hurt by the bricks.
A Juror—Did you see any person throw a box of
matches across the road ?
Witneu—No.

A Juror—Does the police know the interior of
the house in Corporation-lane in which the men
ere seen at the window ?

Inspector. Potter—No ; but the presence of the
men is satisfactorily accounted fur, as they were at
work at the time.

Inspector Thompson having entered the room at
this point, he was at once called before the coroner,
ho, having read over his former eviaence, then
proceeded to put further questions to him. Ile said
—There had been before the explosion a communi-
cation from the police to the governor of the prison.
It was to the effect that an attempt would be made
to rescue the prisoners Burke and Casey. The
governor said that if I had any communications
to make relative to the safety of the prisoners
to put them ou paper, and they wo.Xd be
considered. The report given to the Governor was
that the wall of the prison would be mined, and
that he was to take precautions to guard the in te-
rior. The police, it was stated, would take the
necessary measures for the protection of the out-
side. As I left the prison on that occasion I had
no suspicion that anything would take place at the
moment, and I went round the prison to see that
the police were properly placed.
The Coroner said a great deal of what had been
stated was not evidence, but as there had been a
meeting of the Middlesex magistrates, and as they
had complimented the authorities, which were their
own officers, he thought it right the police should
give their explanation.
A Juror—lf it is not an unfair question, what
should you have considered a sufficient force to
protect the outside of the prison ?
Witness—lf the information had been reliable, I
should have thought a great many constables ought
to have been placed outside, but the information►
being of the nature it was I think constables to
patrol round the prison were sufficient.
Inspector Potter—l never heard a single word
about the prison being about to be blown up.
A Juror—Then you ought to have done so.

inspector ,Thompson—Tho Governor thought
the information very vague and unsatisfactory, and
said that if he lived until the prison was blown up
he should attain a good old age.
Thomas Knowles, 200 G —Superintendent Gar-
non told me the prison was to be blown up, when
I, Ranger, and Sutton were appointed to watch the
prison. I did not believe that antexplosion would
be attempted. At 12 o'clock I went up itosoman-
street, up Corporation-lane, and at that time, being
in front of the prison, I saw Allen. I was in Cor-
poration-lace about four times up to the time of
leaving about half-past two. Ranger left me to
follow Justice. Sutton was left.

Coroner—Then there was nobody else left to
patrol round the prison ? .
Witness—No, at least Idon't know anything about
the matter after I left to watch one of the suspicious
people hanging about the prison.
John Moseley, another of the boys playing near
the barrel, was next called, but as he did not un-
derstand the nature of an oath he was not examined.

Edward M'Leau, the house surgeon,
the deaths in each case arose from suffocation and
loss of blood,.except Evans, who died from chronic
bronchitis, the bruises on the face and neck accele-
rating her death.
Mrs. Jarvis recalled—l have been to the prison
but I did not see there the m in who fired the barrel.

Inspector Thompson said the boy Moseley could
speak to certain matters that occurred the day be-
fore the explosion.
The Coroner —He does not understand the nature
of an oath so we cannot examine him as a witness.
If he is instructed before the trial he will be in a
position to give evidence on that occasion.
A Juror—ls he one of the boys that said " It will
do, master ; it will go now ?"
Inspector Potter—No, he is not.
The Governor of the House of Detention was

then sent for by the coroner, and the inquiry was
suspended until his arrival.

Capt. Codd having arrived,
The Coroner said a statement had been made that
a communication had been made from the police to
the prison, and he had thought it right that be Ole
Governor) should be sent for in order to give an
explanation if he thought proper.
Inspector Thompson said on Thursday he went
to the prisdn and went into the exercising yard.
B.Jore he lift the prison, Cal tain Codd passed up.
and he then told him that Sir R. l\layne had received
certain information which led him to believe that
an attempt to rescue Burke and Casey would be
made by undermining the walls. He (the Governor)
sent for the chief warder, and then he (Tho npson)
stid if the Governor had any sugeestions to make
he would convey them to Sir R. Mayne. Captain
Coll said he was very obliged to Sir Richard,
that he thought he had enough to do to mind his
own business, and that he would take care of the
prison inside'.
Cant. Codd —I had, on a former ocelsiork, Slig-
gPsA that a cordon of policemen should be placed
entirely round the prison walls.
The Coroner— Inspeutor Thompson, you did not,
in your evidence, st tte the matter as precise as you
have now done. I presume you did not state the
Governor's observations entire to Sir Richard. You
told him all but that which you thought would In
considered positively offensive.
Inspector—l repeated all to. Sir Richard except
the latter part.
The Coroner--You have beard, Captain Codd,
what the Inspector has stated. What do you pay ?
Capt. Codd,--In the substance it is quite true.
Coroner—lf formal information was sent to you
that some disturbance was likely to take place, that
the walls were to be undermined, don't you think
some active steps ought to have been' taken to pro-
tect.tl, e prison ?

Capt. Codd—Excuse me, sir. When prison,rs
with Fenian tendencies were first sent to the HouE.e
of Detention I did wake communication. My sug-
gestion was that a cordon of police should be placed
entirely round the walls. I confirm all the state-
ment of the Inspector, except that I did not wish
to be discourteous to Sir Richard. So far as my
duty went I acted. It was not Fart of it to offer
suggestions to the police, but had I done so after
being told that the walls were to be undermined I
should have`suggested the placing of a cordon of
police entirely round the prison.
The Coroner—How many officers would that
have taken ?

Capt. Cold did not answer that question, but
went on to say the suggestion was ffrst made when
Groves was sent to the House of Detention, and
again when the Fenian prisoners Burke and Casey
arrived. The chief warder went down and saw
Inspector Bryant, who told him he had received an
order from Sir R. Mayne on the subject
The Coroner—Then you never suggested the
matter personally to Sir R. Mayne ?
Captain Cod—No. The clerk to the Justices
went down to Sir Richard Mayne when Groves
first became an inmate in the House of Detention,
and Sir Richard Mayne said he could give no far-
ther assistance.

Inspector Thompson—No suggestion was ever
made about a cordon of police.
Coroner—No, he says not to you.
Captai❑ Codd—l said on Thursday that if Sir
Richard Mayne would take charge of the outside
of the prison I would take care of it within. The
original information came from. Sir Richard Mayne,
and I natural;y thought after that that he would
take care of my outer walls.
Coroner—Then it was no part of your duty to
Guard the outside.

Captain Codd—No, I had nothing to do with
that. I consider the outer walls in Sir Richard's
custody precisely iu the same way as the other
houses in The metropolis.
A Juror—Do you know how many police were
stationed outside the walls of the prison ?
Captain Codd—No, I acted up to my duty and
took care of the inside.
The Coroner---I think something further than
what was done ought to have been done to protect
the prison. If a man receives information that his
house is to be attacked by robbers, he take stops
accordingly. I cannot help thinkingi that the
Commissioners of Police ought to have done tnnch
more than ho did for the protection of the outside
of the prison, and the governor something more
for the safety of the inside. The terrible
affair took place because no police were about
to see what the men did when they first
arrived with the barrel. (Suppressed applause.)
I don't think proper protection was made by the
police after they had been informed that the walls
of the prison were to be tind,rmined —there ought
to have been a much stronger 01rd around the
prison. clad the police taken better precaution the
inference is, that this wretched scene would not
have taken place, and the poor creatures. would not
have lost their lives. (Applause.) I must beg that
these manifestations be not repeated in this place
while iu a court of justice.
Captain Codd—l am an old soldier ; I told the
police I would take care of the kernpl if they would
take care of the shell. lam anxious that my ob-
servations should not be misunderstood with resp3ct
to what I have said on the occasion of Groves. com-
ing to the House of Detention. I may be imagined
from what I have said that no attention at all was
paid to my representations. What I wished to con-
vey was that when I sent for the services of twenty
constables or so for the inside of the prison, the
Commissioner said he could not spare officers to
guard the interior.

The Coroner then summed up the evidence, and
the Jury returned a verdict of " Wilful murder
against Desmond, Allen, the woman Justice, and
some persons unknown."
The proceedings then terminated.

FURTHER FENIAN ARRESTS.
BOW-STREET.-(THIS DAY.)

Nearly a week has elapsed without any one, Ex-
cept the three prisoners already brought before the
magistrate at Bow-street, being arrested, but at
length it is believed that four persons have been
captured who are likely to be found as having
taken a prominent part in the late Fenian outrages.
It was rumoure'l that they would be brought be-
fore the magistrate at Marlborough-street Polic,!-
court. This idea, however, was erroneous, as all
cases of this description would of course be I;rought
to Bow-street. The prisoners were brought before
Sir ThomaS Henry, and their names are Nicholas
English, 8, Holland-street, Hanover-square ; Pa-
trick Mulvaney, 20, Slaerrard-street,Golden-square;
W. Desmond, 10, Cross-street, Regent-street ;
and John O'lieeth, 10, Smith's-court, Great Wind-
mill-street.

Mr. Poland, instructed by the solicitor from the
Treasury, prosecuted.

. It was Understood there was a fifth man in cus-
tody, but this was to be taken as an entirely sepa-
rate charge.

Mr. Poland said he appeared to prosecute the
four men at the bar for treason-felony. A warrant
had been issued for their apprehension, and they
were taken into custody last night.. by Sergeant ,
Cole. With regard to O'Keefe, he must state
that he had been in custody on Saturday and dis-
charged ; but it was thought right to re-arrest him.
Ile did cot propose to do more that give evidence
to justify a remand, and then perhaps they could
be brought up with the others on Monday.
Charles Cole, Police-constable, said—l had war-
rants last night for the apprehension of the four
prisoners. At 10 o'clock last night he went to the I
Lion and French Horn in Poland-street, Regent-
street, which is kept by a person named Kava-
nagh. Ile had known the house before. He
had seen all the prisoners at that house
many times. He knew they were particular
friends. English lived in Poland-street nearly
opposite. Ile used to keep a leaving-shop in
Dudley-street. Witness did not know whether he
had worked at any trade of late. He knew that
Mulvaney lived in Sherard-street ; he is a tailor.
He saw English and Mulvaney at the French Horn,
and 14 or 15 other persons there.
i He was in plain
clothes. Bunco was with him n the same way.
Other officers in uniform were with him. When
he went in he saw Mulvaney standing up and
English sitting down on a form. Bunco took hold
of English, and witness said, " English, I hold a
warrant signed by Sir Thomas Henry at Bow-street
for your apprehension for treason-felony." lie-got
up in a great rage. I said, " I have told you we
are police-sergeants, you have no excuse, here is the
police constable in uniform by our sides, to
prove we know what you are." I then touchel
aaulvaney on the shoulder, and told him I held a
warrant for his apprehension. Ile sai 1 he (lid not
understand. I repeate I what I had said before,
and added, "You must go with me." English
then became vtry And was obliged to be
dragged away by force. When he .got outside he
was much more violent than he was before. I then
saw him thrown or knocked down on the floor.
Bunco got hold of him, and some one had hold of
him behind. There was a vast crowd, and English
halloed out, " Now, my boys, for the revolvers."
After some difficulty I got him to the station. Mul-.
vauey was quiet. When he cried out, " Now, my
boys, &c.," there was a mob; and I saw about a
dozen round Bunce. There were other constables
outside. He did not know how many there
were. They should not have been able to get them to
the station-house unless they had had a good force. I
they went to 10, Cross-street, Regent-square.
Win. Desmond lives there. He is a bootmaker and
. a volunteer in, the 46th Aliddleaex, I found him in

the second floor front room. I said, " Desmond I
hold a warrant to apprehend you for treason-
felony." He said, Mr. Cole, nothing of the sort
with me." I said you will have: to :go. He said
there is no reason why one Desmond should be bad,
that I should be bad. On searching the room he
found a life preserver, rifle, and bayonet. He went
quietly to the station. Searched him and- found
nothing on him. At two o'clock he went to Smith's--
court, Windmill-street, and knocked at the first
floor door. I could here there was some one in the
room, wind on their refusing to answer I put my
foot against the door and burst it open. I saw
O'Keefe in a little room. He pretended to be
asleep, but &nice said, " Get up Jack," he
looked at me and said, " What do you want
now"? This man, alluding to Buno., took
me on Saturday ni.sllt. I got turned up for that,
and shall soon get turned fur this. I told him what
I apprehended him for now was a difLlrent affair
altogeihcr. lie went quietly .to the station. On
Monday, the -17 Ci of Deoember, Jaisies Vangitan
oa him at his house, and gave certain in-
forination.

The in".:3-on-r I),,amond s ti,l what Mr. C,,-)le ha I
stated w:is qaite correct, except thlt h sai i,‘• If
onse lle,s1non:1 was is tro.e)le there was ir.) reason
way he shoulal."

olie,le said that they treated him w•oil last hight,,
but they put a revolver to his head on Saturday.
Mulvaney said that he did.

James Vaughan said that ho lived in Farmer-
street, Golden-square. He was a tailor. Ile
knew Timot•iy Desmond, a man in custody, but
not here to-day. He hid known him five years,
and he was a tailor. He knew Win. Demon'', the
present prisoner. He had known him 18 months.
He knew English, and had known him four or five
years. G'Keefe he had known two years.
0 Keefe—Please to look at me. I don't think
you do know me.

Witness—Yes I do perfectly well. He thought
that O'Keefe was a shoemtker. He had known
Mulvany 18 months. He was a member of the
Fenian brotherhood. He became so in 18G5. Au
oath was administered to him by Timothy Desmond,
the other prisoner. Th 3 form of the oath was, "I
promise, by the divine will of God, to do all in my
power to obey the laws of the Society F. B. to free
and regenerate Ireland from the yoke of England."
When the oath was administered he kissed the
book. Timothy Desmond used the words. The
name of the society was used short--F. B. It means
" Fenian Brotherhood." We were the only per-
sons present. It was at a place called Duck-lane,
Goward-street, Soho. It was in the open air.
He knew that it was the practice. only to administer '
the oath when there were two together. One sworn
could swear another. If a member sweats in a cer-
tain number of men he is raised. He had been in
the habit of frequenting the Lion and French Horn
publichouse, Mrs. Kavanagh's. -He had met all the
prisoners there on different occasions. He believed
them to be members of the Fenian brotherhood. He
remembered a meeting that took place on a Sunday
three mouths ago. Before that meeting Timothy
Desmond spoke to him three days previous. He
told me then there was going to be a meeting held
at Kavanagh's. He said that the watch raffle had
got too stale : they were going to try a meeting for
the Church to see how that would take. It
meaning English, had got the room from Kavanagh.
He told witness to be there early, and try to fill the
room before others came in. Witness had contri-
buted to some of these watch raffles. They were
held week after week for the purpose of buying
arms. Timothy Desmond meant, when he said
that the raffles were getting stale, that they should
have a meeting for the purpose of buying arms. lie
had attended the raffles himself. Desmond said
that the arms were wanted " damned bad." No-
thing more took place then. Witness saw
Desmond again on the Saturday. lie went
into Kavanagh's parlour with him. He said
that a number of the people would be led to believe
that it was for the Church, and we should all try to
be there, as Father O'Connor was going to give a
good lecture. On that Saturday night he saw at
Kavanagh's three now at the bar—English, Mul-
vany, and O'Keefe. They were in his company
and Desmond's in the same room. It was whispered
that there was a warrant out against them. He
made an arrangement to meet Desmond the next
day, and they went to Kavanagh's. When they
got there they saw English, Mulaney, and O'Keefe
there. English was very busy. Father O'Connor
was in the parlour and another man with him.
Desmond asked English if he had not better go
inside.] Ile said, " Not yet, foe he had got the tem-
perance on, and it would nut do to have meetings
like that in a public-house with Father O'Connor :
they might have visitors whom they did not care to
receive. They then went inside the Temperance
Hall. That pl tee is next door to Kavanagh's.
There were :shout 130 or more there alto-
gether. lie was amengst the numb It was
given out that this was a meeting to build
a church in Ireland. There were no bills
or tickets printed. He believed there were
cards, but lie did not see the:n. He had never
seen Father O'Connor before nor since that night,
the prisoner Mulvaney, Father O'Connor, the
Chairman, and some one else on the platform whoM
he knew. O'Keefe and English were standing up
against a door till the hall was nearly filled. Then
O'Keefe came inside the hall. Ile did not see.Wils
ham Desmond there. Th hall was full. O'Keefe
and English were on the look out to see no con-
stable or detective should come in, and they were to
give us the tip. No money was paid for entering,
The chairman first spoke, 'and said they all came
there for a charitable purpose, and to hear a lec-
ture on Ireland which Father O'Connor would give
them. Another party spoke next, and then Father
O'Connor spoke. lie said he was not prepared to
give a lecture, and said he would speak to them a
little on Ireland. They all knew, he supposed,
what he came there for. Of course he came there
to get contributions to build a high church. lie
then laughed and the people clapped, which led
witness to believe they all knew what they came
there for. lie said it was a mistake for the
people to think that the clergy were against
the people. • That they were not. Timothy
Desmond then hollowed out —" How about
Maynooth." Father O'Connor said, " I was not
prepared for that." He then said, "I'll tell you, al-
though the clergymen take an oath they take it to
be loyal to their God, the Church, and then to their
country.".i4lle then proceeded farther, and Keefe
said, " Bravo, you are not like Father Moriarty or
Cullen." At the end of his speech he said, " You
think Ireland is almost dead, but believe me she
has got a kick in her yet; and, believe, ire, that
kick will go through the belly of John Bull."
Ile was speaking altogether about fifteen or
twenty minutes. The sentiment as to John
Bull was rec;ived with great clapping and
cheering. A collection was then made. .Mul-
vaney went round on one side, and another party
on the other side of the hall. The collection was
made on a plate. It was passed round the room
from form to form. Mulvaney took the chair, and a
vote of thanks was passed to the chairman. They
then left the hall. lie did not know what they
callee,ted. He subscribed 61 that night. The
people on the platform who had the money went
inside Kavanagh's. Neitlnr before nor -iucc had
I e ever seen o'Connor or the ehairman. On the
Tuesday after this he went to John-street, Golden-
square. He went with Timothy Desmond to a
public house there. He went insi le. There were
about thirty other men there. lie saw all the pri-
soners there except William Destnoncl. He did not
know the name of the house. He was t )1d by
Timothy Desneond that the " Boss" was to be there
that night. He understood that to mean the Head
Centre, and he was to come from Manchester. He
did not come. They waited till 10 o'clock. It
was about half past seven when they went there.
English said that it was no good waiting, that the
"Boss" could not come on any occasion. He said
something, very important must have detained him.
He afterwards took part in a raffle. It was osten-
sibly for a destitute widow and children, but it was
in reality to buy arms. Timothy Desmond told
him so. On Tuesday last the 10th December
Timothy Desmond and the prisoner English came
to his house in King's place, and Desmond said that
he had brought Mr. English round with him to know
about the cards, the money for them that was
owing. Witness had purchased some cards, ten
white ones and two green ones. The price of the
white cards wss sixpence and the green ones one
shilling. Ile got three from Timothy Desmoed,
bat the initials of Mr. English were on the back of
each of them. Hu had had them three weeks. The
lot would be 75., and that sum and Gs. that he
. had borrowed of Desmond, was owing. lie sol
I the cards he bought to different parties. The cards
were to aid the wives and families of the Manchester
prisoners. There was to be a meeting addressed
by Clinton Hoey. None of• these tickets related to
the Bower Theatre. They said that the money was
wanted very badly, and he told them to come down
on the Friday night. Desmond asked him
whether he would go to Stangate with him.
He said he could not, as he was rather busy.
Witness asked Desmond to come down on Friday
night, and English said, " No, you can't ; I will
come clown," On the Friday, Timothy Desmond
came to .him about half-past one or two. He
hollded- out " Ahoy l" lie said " Hone; Ted,
have you been muddling it this morning ?" He
said "Nu, I have been having a little drop." He
said- his sou Danny had gone to sea that moruiug.
He asked witness's wife if she had seen anything of
his wife. She said " No." Witness s " You
don't mean to say year wife's hooked it then."
lie said, " Yes, she has, and by the God that

•
made me she'll never lay beside me again." My wife
says, " Don't,be foolish," and be said "Goody"
and kissed her, and, said he was to take a jump. He
did whisper to witness, and told linethe trick should
be done between half-past three and four o'clock,
as Anne Justice had found out the right time for the
prisoners to exercise in the yard. He said that it
must be done. Witness asked him what, and ho
says to blow up the House of Detention. He says,
When I am gone, Aliuny, I don't expect you'll
see me no more, unless you do a corpse, and it' I am
off and unarrested, the next placa will be
Millbank. O'Keefe will do the trick, with Bill
Desmond, for Massey, Corydon, and Duvaney.
So, 3tinny, gobd bye, and pray for me
when 1 am .blasted into eternity." lie
then squeezed my hand very hard and kissed the
and then left. Ha seta that Justice had found it
out by going in with Casey's dint-eh.. He said that
witness was not to give any money to hie wife, but
to English, and if he did not conic down for it tr •
give it to no one but his d tugh ter Poly. His wife
was not near eneugh to hear. Eeglish came to him
that eveeieg exactSy 5 minutee past :seven o'clock.
Ile was in a very excited state. lie said, '' For
Go is s ties Muggy give me as nauelt as you
cati." It was money he meant. lie seid,
" I want all I can get to send some one off."
Witness asked hint who, and he said, " What,
have yoe heard." Witness replied "No." IL:thee
said, "The House of Detention is blown well
up." lie said he had not seen Desmond, but he
hal promised to titeeahim in an hour, but he did
net. Witness asked hint if he would see him that
night. fie said that he did not expectle should.
Witness then gave him two shillings, and told him
he could not give him more, as he was rather slack.
He then said, " Jimmy, for God's sake, get as
much as you can for me." lle then left. He was
there, about seven or eight minutes • he told hint no
particulars about the explosion. He saw hint in
the following morning in Tyler-street. It
leads from King-street to Carnaby-street.
He went . out to buy a newspaper. It was
about half-past eleYen o'clock when he came out
of the shop. He saw English looking at the pla-
card. He said " Good morning" to him. • He
seemed then very excited, and said aloud, " Diabo-
lical!" which word was on the placard. He added,
" We will burn the whole of London before Christ-
mas: that will be more diabolical." Witness asked
if he had seen Desmond : he said no, and wished
him good bye. The same day witness came to
Bow-street at about half past 12 o'clock, and saw
the prisoner Keife in the street. He was standing
outside the publichouse with another man not in
ca ;toly. He saw witness, tan over to him, and
as al him if ho had seen English. He replied
th .t he had seen him in Carnaby-street.
Ii then ran across the road and joined two men.
went into the publichouse, and they began to
to k about the explosion. Some three or four :per-
so is were there. O'Keefe was one. 'Witness said
it yes a bad job about the amount of damage done
as regards life, and that it was horrible to think of
it. O'Keefe replied, " Anything that can't be done
without a great sacrifice." At that time 'Wm.
Desmond came in. He said to witness, :`
Minny, what do you think of that d— fool? Sin's
come around to me, accusing tne of saying th; t he
was a coward." Witness asked him who it was.
He replied,'" Ted's wife. You never beard me say
it, die you ?" He replied no. \‘itneis tuid it was
a bad job. Desmond replied that it served them
d— well right, that they had uo business to be
there at all ; that we sent him back, and told him to
go home and sleep for an hour. This meant Timothy
Desmond. English then came in. The conversa-
tion was than repeated. English said that they
had sent Timothy back, and he had no business
there; that was at the explosion. They then all
left, and witness went home. He went on the Sue-
day to Kavanagh's. He saw Desmond, English,
and Mulvaney there. They were at the front bar;
Englssh was drunk. He asked Desmond to come.out:
Asked him would he gv down with him. He replied
he would. We all went outside. He asked Des-
'mond where he was going, and he replied to the
" Boas" to take hack au answer of a message. lie
said he was in Hooper-street, Westminster, but
they persuaded them not to go, as it might lead
to them being suspected. lie said the best thing
they could do was to settle Derby, Stanley, and
Hardy. Desmond said there would not be so
thought of doing the trick for them by the public
as what there was over the last affair. They then
went home. lie left %I'm. Desmond at his door,
Cross-street, Gol len square. It was at half-past
11 o'clock. lie was at Kavanagh's that night at
10 o'clock with Mulvany. lie was in a l ri-
vate bar with some others. lie called Nick
to have a glass of grog. He drank out of the gi ,ss
and gave it to William Desmond. Last Monday
he gave ieformatien to Sergeant Cole. Ha had
known him for a number of yearn. Witness knew
he was very clever as .a police-sergeant. He told
him he wautel to make a statement.

Cross examined by Desmond—l have seen you
at the raffl24 often. I did not see you at the meet-
ing a hen Father O'Connor was there. The raffles
were on Saturday night. I came to Kavanagh's on
Sunday to see who was there. I did come to your
house on Tuesday with two young men. You never
said anything about standing on your own defence.
Cross-examined by English—lie believed that
Father O'Connor's meeting was private. He did
not say there were no cards.. 113 siid he believed
there were, but he did not see them.
Cross-examined by O'Keefe—There were a lot
of strikers at Kavanagh's at that time. A greit
many tailors assemble there. There were a great
many tailors drinking at the bar at the time. I
have heard that there is a reward. Mulvaney said
it was no good his asking any questions,
but he hoped that the magistrate would allow hint
to see his wife, as he was in delicate health, and
wanted to ariange at his work.
This was acceeded to, and the prisoners were then
formally remanded until Monday next.