The Sun.
London, England, 1804-02-03 00:00:00

PRIC2 SIXPENCE:

Mr. FRANCIS thought that the tendency of the
Speech of the Right Hon. Gmt. (rhe CHANCELLOR
of the ExwikkQiint) went to set the usage of the
House, as exhibited in the journals, above the pasi.
tive words of an Alt of Parliament.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER

referred to several precedents, whiCh were read hi,
the Clerk, in none of which did the Petitioners state
that they had a right to vote at, the respeetive
Elthions of which they complained. Upon that
relative to Carmarthen, decided upon last Session,
he remarked, that a question similar to that brought
for Ward by the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Foxy was agitatedi
but the Committee decided that the Petition was
good, allowing at the same time the opposite party
to prove, if they could, that the Petitioners were
nut Freeholders, which was not attempted.
Mr. T. GRENVILLE entered into some explana.
tiori to.tite irlotives of passing the two Aft;
loth an*i.tbth of His present Majesty. He believed
it would be, found that previous to passing the formet
or Grenville A&t, that the usage of the House with
respeCt to receiving Election Petitions' was nearly
the same as it had been of late years. That Act left
the subjeCt open, and by the general u;e of the word
Petition, allowed of the presentation of Petitions of
that nature without restrietion. It was afterwards

found nccesssary to place some restriaion upon th6e
kind of Petitions, and the Ad of the zSch was pass.
ed, enading that no Petitions should be received
unless the Parties stated that they were candidates,
or had a right to vote at the EleCtion of which they
complained. This nearly brought them back to the
former system. Heconfessed, however, he should
have been better satisfied if the Petition in question
had complied with the words of the Al of Parlia-
ment, in which case there would have been no degree
of doubt upon this subjed, but as the case appeared
doubtful, he thought they aught to give it an equita.
ble construction, particularly as the Petition was con.
formable to the practice of Parliament, and as such a
construdion would prevent that wrong and injury
which individuals would otherwise sustain.
Mr. JEKYLL expressed his surprize that the
present should be called a doubtful case. It seem.
ed to him impossible to adopt words more manda-
tory than those of the Ad alluded to. With re-
spea to the Carmarthen Petition, which had been
alluded to by the Right Hon: Gent. (the CHAN-
c E L i.ok of the EXCHEQUER) the Committee in that
case were compelled to receive the Petition, it hay..
ins been referred to them by order of the House,
and they could therefore only decide upon it as it
lay before them. Precedents had been quoted, but

in the cases cited, if any question of This nature

had been raised upon them, they might have been
of some avail, hut they had pftooed
When the blot was hit, it was for the House to con.

eider whether it was rightly hit or not. It had
been Laid that the Freeholders had a prima facie
right to vote, but it was considered that various

disabilities might preclude them from the exercise
of that privilege. Much stress was laid upon pre-
cedent, but how often had it been decided in the
Court of King's Bench, where an usage had been
set up contrary to the express words of a Charter,
that it did not signify for how many years that
"usage had subsisted, it must fall to the grouncl,•be-
cause it was inconsistent with the provisions of the
Cl;'3rtet ; in this case they could not contravene
:Le express words of an At of Parliamebt...
Lard A. HAMILTON thought -tliey •-could .not
contrary to the express words At of
Parliament.

Air'. TIERNEY said, it had been his-prat-tide,
'when any matter was doubtful, to,open the door as
widely as, liossible for its discussion, and ht en..
treated the House to see what the hzirdship- would

be, and it must fall on The Petitioners, if this ,Peti-
tion. was now rejetted: Ir.wat.,worth while to look
at the course-which this proceeling+ had taken.; no
objedion whatever was started against this-Petition
when it was presented. What was 'the reason why
the Hon. Gentleman, who now brought this moticin
forward, had stilled all those feelings which he
kneW behad:upon this occasion in favour of sub-
stantial justice, and to insist on the dry letter of the

? It certainly must be his superior sense of duty
to support the regularity of the proceedings of the
.tlouse, -But why had he not told 'these Petitioners
of 1114 informality sooner ? If he had said at the
'time of presenting this Petition,-that the Petition
could' not haite been received hecaus'e the words were
not in it which the Hon. Gentleman contended the
mt required should 'have'been in it; the-Petition
might have been rejected without any hardship on
the Petitioners ;
,so that the formality of the pro.
ceedings of the House would have been' preserved,
and 'substantial justice might have been done to the
parties complaining at the same time,- for then ano-
ther Petition might have been -presented, and the
words, now said to be.wanting, might have been
But what was the consequence of being
silent then and Intid now, if the House should adopt
,this tnotion.;?. That of ,placing the Petitioners in a
situation in which they could- never have tiYei!ccOln.
plaint heard at all -The House would recollect chat

the parties were brought into this situnion by the
at of the anise itself, in which the Hon. Gentle..
man had acquiesced, as welLas every other NI-ember.
•
No objeaion was made to this Petition when it was
presented the last "Ses'3ion. 'The Petitioners,wo4&
have been subjel to a penalty of zoo!. if they had
not renewed it in this Session, that was,- in other
v‘ords, if the Hon'. Gentleman was right in his mo-
f ion, there wyluld havr been a.penalty-of 2001.
caching on these Petitioners if they did nit repeat
th, offence, that of renewing an irregular,
Pezitiort. It was said that the spirit of the Gren.

Vile- Bill, as well as the letier of it, requirett it
Should be stated in the Petition that the Petitioners
had a right to vote at the eledion, which this Pal.