The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-31 00:00:00

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

On the motion of Lord COLVILLE the Great Western
Railway and Liskeard Water Bills were read a second time.
The Athenry and Tuam Railway, Wesi. of Fife Mineral
' Railway, and'' Morayshire Railway Bills were read a third
. time and passed.
' CONSOLIDATED. FUND (£850,000) BILL..
This bill was read a third time and passed.
THE CHINESE EXPEDITION.
Ti4e Earl GREY; after presenting_a_p_etition from Leeds,
x essing regret at the proceedings which had taken place
at the mouth of the Peiho, said he rose to move for an esti-
mate, as nearly as the same could be made out, of the pro-
bable cost of the expedition to China up to the close of the
financial year 1860-1, the said estimate to include the pay
and supplies forherMajesty's naval and land forces (whether
.of the regular or Indian army), if they should continue in
China to the above date, together with all charges for trans-
port freight, military stores, and coals. The noble earl said
the information which their lordships now possessed upon
this subject was very scanty and imperfect. All they knew
was that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in introducing
his budget, was reported to have said that during the present
financial year, ending to-morrow, nearly £1,000,000 would
be required for this purpose. That, he begged to state to
.their lordships, was for the liquidation of expenses the re-
sult of measures taken by the Government during the three
or four months before Parliament assembled, and without
the slightest authority from Parliament for the expenses so
incurred. Their lordships had not taken notice of that
iiregirlarity, nor had any notice of it been taken in the other
house of Parliament—the house which had charge of the
public purse ; but he (Earl Grey) was old-fashioned enough
to believe that these expenses ought not to have been incur-
red by the sole authority of the Government, and without
previolts application being made to Parliament—(hear,hear)
—or without Parliament having had an opportunity of ex-
pressing an opinion upon the circumstances. It was true

they had heard from the Secretary of State 'for War that
her Majesty's Government had, in the estiniates laid before
Parliament, made a further provision to the extent of 21
millions for the costs of the expeditiOn ; but that
right honourable gentleman said he would not speculate
upon what might be the cost of those operations ; and he
(Earl Grey) thought the right honourable gentleman was

highly prudent in declining to state that that estimate
would be the ultimate cost of the operations to be carried
on. He would, indeed, be a bold man who would venture
to predict what the cost would be when he considered the
enormous expense of conducting military operations at so
great a distance from their resources, and the uncertainty
when war had once begun of its being limited in extent, or

of its being brought to a close. When all those things were

considered, they-must feel that it was only too probable
that the cost of this expedition would swell to the most
formidable dimensions, and have to be reckoned by millions.

Even if these operations should be brought to as early and
successful a close as it would be possible to hope for, still,
in that case he believed there would have been a very con-
siderable expense incurred; and of all those expenses he
thought their lordships ought to have a proximate estimatt._
(Hear.) No doubt it was impossible that anything like an
accurate estimate could be prepared, nor was it necessary
that such an estimate should be presexted ; but it ought to
be practicable to make out, for their lordships' information,
an account which would show the probable cost of the
measures which had been already taken and ordered by the

arise.ing, no
H e at; , shaepapro)B
Governmentunforeseen contingencyoli tto should
make ou t
the cost of sending to China, and maintaining there until
the close of the ensuing financial year, the large naval and
land forces which had been already- oraerea. mat
estimate which he (Earl Grey) proposed their lordships
should call for. It was proposed to take the expenses up
to the end of the ensuing financial year—and he indeed
must be a sanguine person who expected the return of the
expedition at an early period ; and even if it should happily
return before that time, the cost of the return voyage would
absorb the funds provided, and there would be no imme-
diate reduction in tho expenses of the ensuing year. It was
necessary that their lordships should have this estimate
before them, in order that their lordships and the country
might have an opportunity of knowing what might be the
cost which, in the most favourable events, would be thrown
upon the country by the measures which had been taken
by her Majesty's Government. Their lordships could not
clearly understand what the Government proposed to do
without this estimate, and 'it was the more necessary that
they should have it before them, because, contrary to what
used to be the practice of Parliament. her Majesty's Govern-
ment had adopted their measures, had undertaken this great
expedient to a distant country, and had, in all probability,
commenced a long and costly war without having first in-
vited Parliament to express an opinion upon it. (Hear.)
The ancient practice of Parliament was, that when war, in •
volving probably a large expenditure, was imminent, it was
felt to be the duty of Ministers, at the earliest period in
their power, to cail upon Parliament to advise the Crown,
and to share the responsibility of Ministers. That was ali
good and a wholesome rule, but it had not been followed in
the present instance. It was true that the other house of
Parliament had been asked for a vote of £850,000 for the
expenses which had been already incurred, but no formal
judgment of Parliament had been asked upon the subject,
and their lordships had had no opportunity of expressing
any opinion. That might be a convenient course for a Go-
vernment to follow, but he did not believe it was consistent
with the spirit of the constitution, nor did be think it was
just to the members of either house of Parliament, or to the
nation at large. It might be a convenient course for a Go-
vernment to throw the papers upon the table, as thereby a
vote of censure could not be obtained without difficulty,
for it was much more easy to avoid a vote of censure than
to obtain a vote of approval. It was a difficult, an invidi-
ous thing for a member of either house of Parliament to
propose a vote of censure ; but this he would say, it was
by no means just to throw upon Parliament the responsi-
bility of a silent acquiescence, although the measures
which Government had taken might in the opinion of Par-
liament be erroneous ; still less was it fair to expect that
private members would come forward in the character of
accusers. It was not just that the nation should have
to bear the cost and burden of, it might be, an expen-
sive and protracted war, and the expenses of military and
naval preparations, without the luestion being in the first
instance submitted to the judgment of Parliament. Al-
though the course pursued by the Government was one of
which he did not approve, he owned he did not wonder that
they had followed it. It showed impliedly that they had
but little confidence in the strength of the case which they
would have to submit to Parliament, had. they come for-
ward to ask for its support. Had the Government done as,
they would have been called upon to prove that the quarrel
with China was a just one—to show that the Chinese were
not entitled by the law of nations to resist by force the
breaking down of the barriers erected for the protection of
that river which gave access to the capital—how it was
that the precedents which had been followed in the wars
with other nations, and especially in the last war with
Russia, had been neglected in this instance—how it' was,
in short, that a convention had not been signed with France
clearly defining the object of the war. In undertaking
combined operations with an allied and independent power
there were always difficulties to be overcome in order to
maintain cordiality and to prevent jealousies and animosities
from arising. In order to guard against those dangers it
had 'ben customary at the very earliest possible period, and
before anything was done, that the terms should be clearly
definel and agreed upon, so that there should be no room
for doubt or dispute as to the real objects in view, and

what me allied power had a right to expect from the other.
_ _ .

Nothiig should be left to vague understanding—nothing
to conversations of which there might be an imperfect and
jarring recollection. Whatever passed in conversation

ought to be recorded; in due diplomatic form. The prece-
dent of the Crimean war showed that those precautions
had nit been needlessly observed, and still more recent
events showed that one at least of the stipulations in the

Russian War convention had not been useless—that
neithei of the contracting parties should seek for itself

any territorial accession in consequence of the
war. Would such a precaution be needless now

after _ what they had

seen

within the last

month' (Hear, hear.) Had the question been submitted
to Parlament, Ministers would have been asked what ad-

vantages were to be derived from the war—what was the

promised end of all this costly preparation—were the cost
and risk commensurate with the advantages to be gainet
They lad been told that a great expedition was sent out to