The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-30 00:00:00

sued had the approbation of the noble lord opposite (the
Earl of Clarendon) ; and that being so, he trusted, in
the hope of bringing about an amicable settlement of
this question, that this would close, at least for the
present, the discussions in their lordships' house o❑ this
difficult and delicate subject. Hear.)
The conversation then terminated.
INDIA.

The Duke of ARGYLL moved that there be laid be-
fore their lordships' house, the report to the general
court of the East India Company from the Court of Di-
rectors upon the two bills now before Parliament relat-
ing to the government of India. The noble duke
thought no blame attached to the noble earl opposite for
the change he had made in the course which he had in-
tended to pursue when in opposition. It was undoubt-
edly true that the vote in the other house of Parliament
(which was carried, he believed, by a majority of 200)
had so essentially altered the position of her Majesty's
present Government that they were fully entitled to say
that, whatever might have been their opinions in opposi-
tion, they had no alternative but to proceed to legisla-
tion with regard to the government of India; and be
(the noble duke) could only express his earnest hope that
they would not allow the present session to come to a
conclusion without the question Wing settled one way or
the other. (Hear.) He quite agreed that so long as the
Court of Directors was the de facto government of India
it ought to be respected ; but no one could deny that its
authority had been most materially diminished by the
vote in the other house, especially when the character of
the noble earl the President of the Board of Control was
borne in mind. It was notorious that at no time had the
noble earl been disposed to pay much respect to the
Court of Directors, and he could not conceive that what
had taken place was at all calculated to increase the
noble earl's deference to the Court. (Hear, hear.) He
entirely concurred in the policy which the noble earl had
indicated in a despatch published that morning, with re-
ference to the treatment of oar revolted subjects in
India; but it was a most remarkable circumstance that
that despatch should have been sent through the secret
committee. That circumstance proved that the Presi-
dent of the Board of Control, even under present cir Cum
stances, had an absolute authority over the whole go-
vernment of India. (Hear, hear.) While he (the noble
duke) approved of the determination of the present
Government to proceed to legislation, he could not
help thinking that the steps it had subsequently
taken had only increased the difficulty of the problem
they had to solve. It would be remembered thatthe noble
earl had last year expressed hie aversion to any material
change; for he said that constitutions grew up and soul
act be made. From that he should have expected that
the noble earl would have made as little alteration as
possible when he came into office ; and yet his plan in-
volved an entirely new constitution fir India. There were
in it far more elements of change ; it was much more
complicated, and it was more open to the objection that
it created a new constitution than the bill of the late Go-
vernment. It had been withdrawn, but Parliament would
still have to deal with its main features concentrated into
a series of abstract resolutions. A more inconvenient
mode of proceeding could not be devised ; because in a
case like this the merits or demerits of a measure must
depend entirely upon its details. A great deal had been
said with regard to the principle of election. But there
was no principle whatever involved in the abstract idea
of election apart from the definition of those who were
to be the electors, and the functions cf those who were
to be elected. It was a prevalent opinion that the chief
difficulty in transferring the government of India from
the name of the company to the name of the green was
that which would be experienced in limiting the power
of the Crown. lathe document for which he was moving
their lordships would see that the directors (who were
thoroughly conversant with the existing practice) also
insisted upon the same notion—not, indeed, very con-
sistently, for one part of the paper was contradicted by
another—not from any want of ability on the part of
those by whom it bad been drawn up, but in consequence
of the false position in which the directors found them-
selves. This idea had come down to us from the great con
test of 1788. The objection to Mr. Fox's bill was that it
would dangerously increase the power of the Crown if the
government of India were transferred to it; but the mean-
ing of that objection was that the transference would give
the Crown power to interfere with the commerce of In-
dia. Bat all that had passed away. There was now ne
commerce to be dealt with, and thus there was now no
danger to be apprehended. (Hear.) In 1788 it was argued
that there would be nothing to prevent a Minister Iron
appointing to the great pro-consular commands any per-
son he pleased, whatever might have been his previous
qualifications or services. The danger that was then
apprehended was that of the nabobs, as they were then
called, would come back from India and employ their
ill-gotten wealth in obtaining parliamentary influence ;
but all that was now completely changed, and they
would now be only too glad to secure the services of
persons who had had experience in India for their new
council. (Hear.) Again, it was contended that the pro-
posed council should be absolutely independent. This
doctrine was laid down in one part of the document for
which he was moving, but in another part of it they were
told that the council must be one not to control but to
advise the Indian Minister. (Hear.) And here he must
express the astonishment with which he had read a state•
ment of a right hon. friend of his in another place, for
whom he felt the greatest respect and admiration—viz.,
that the power of the President of the Board of Control
had of late been increasing, and that that increase had
not received the formal sanction of Parliament. The tact
was, the machinery of the secret committee, through
which the power of the Board of Control was exercised,
had received the sanction of Parliament over and over
again. There could be no doubt that Parliament never
intended that the power of the executive should not be
the same with regard to Indian wars and with regard to
wars in Europe. It was true, it might be said, that Par-
liament had an indirect check over the executive with
regard to wars in Europe because it had to provide the
means for carrying them on. At the same time there
could be no doubt that as regarded the authority of the
executive with respect to war it was just the same in
India as in Europe. (Hear.) It would be well, however,
if the principle were more generally recognised that the
chief dangers of our Eastern empire were internal, and
that so long as it made progress in the cause of improve-
ment they might disregard ail the attempts of Russia or
any other foreign power. (Hear, hear.) Bat to return
to the proposed council. The plan for representing special
interests was the very worst that could be conceived ;
and on this point he would quote the words of the noble
earl (Lord Ellenborough) is 1853. [The noble duke here
read an extract, in which Lord Ellenberour h depreea'ed
the giving to the mercantile community any direct share
in the government of India, on the ground that they
might make an improper use of information they re-
ceived.] The noble earl, again, was generally supposed to
he the chief authority for the introduction of the elective
principle ; but he had looked over his evidence in 1853,
and he found that the noble earl only advocated elect io
as an alternative if nomination was not adop'ed ; bat
there could be no doubt that in 1853 the noble earl gave
a preferenoe to the latter as being the mode by which
men of the greatest ability could be procured. At
present the best men would not face the trouble of a can-
vass, and when the constituency was enlarged the objet.
tions would be proportionably increased. Indeed, when
he recollected the noble earl's speeches, he must say he
had been much canceled to account for his bill. The task
which lay before them was a most difficult one. They
had to rule a distant empire with an absolute government
on the spot and a parliamentary government at home.
They had to bring to bear upon it their own purer faith,
their greater knowledge, and their more perfect civilisa-
tion ; and they had at the same time to guard it from
being made the sport of political parties or the sacrifice
of European selfi-hness. (Cheers.) He thought the noble
earl himself must have had a higher opinion of the good
sense of the English people when he found that itref used
one of the main features of his own bill, that portion of
it by which he proposed to give certain great cities the
right to elect a portion of his council.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that whatever
might be the present or future difficulties of the Govern-
meet of India, the present Government was not reepsea
sible for them ; because at the end of last year he had de-
precated any change beyond the introduction of the
Queen's name, which would have required very few altera-
tions to effect. Her Majesty's late Government had appa-
rently not made up their minds on the subject till after
Christmas. They seemed to have considered it in the
recess, and they intreduced their bill at the commence-
ment of the present session. He rejoiced to find that
the noble duke was of opinion (and he hoped that the
colleagues of the noble duke agreed with him) that as
the question bad been stirred, the present Government
were bound to go on with the proposed legislation ; for
certainly after they had passed sentence upon the Court
of Directors it would be most improper to leave the
government of the Indian empire in the hands of a body
they had thus stigmatised. (Hear, hear.) Tne news of
the overthrow of Lord Palrnerston'a Government,
and
opp
naa of h
enr
eyl
Parliament
mwt
They
ne intended
etlwould
ncrn create
overthrow
ganhtdete
intended
t
great
odconfusiono ,
ltof
h themei n
proceed
rnaosdatieaeld;n dtioa C
and
dwoohr
aar.-
tt
depend upon it that the state of the
country was not such as to make it ad visible and desir-
' able to add to the difficulty in which the government in
India was involved. It was with the greatest g ratifica
tion, therefore, that he had heard the noble duke
expres
his opinion that they ought to legislate on the subjects
this year. With regard to himself and the East India
Company, it was impossible for the Natalie business to be
conducted more amicably than it was conducted between
himself and the East India Company. He was now for
the fourth time at the Board of Control, and he never
had a dispute with the East India Company, or with any
individual member of the Board of Directors. He did
not believe that the Court of Directors had thrown any
obstructions in the way of her Majesty's Government ; if
they would have done so at any time, they woad have
done ro last year, but they had not done so, and that
was not any reason fur 1-gislating on the subject now
The great evil of the present system was the evil f
nece sary deleY. He had explained the circumstances
s
under which it was not only allowable but right to pa,
this letter through the secret department ; if he had
passed it through the public department it would not have
been brought to I.ght by this lime. The directors could
times
easy
extremelyoi avoid the
twoearecsisocmue„-
sion on the resolutions or the it would be irreguia•
in him to do so. The late government proposed a eelleeil
of eight persons nominated by the crown, and these ei.:ht
persons must t f necessity either have resided fifteen year
in India or have served ten years in India. Every efficer
of her Majesty's army would of necessity be excluded,
and more than that, every person who viewed Indiar,
affairs with
Now n
win India without
ithanEno glish mind would be prat icalie
person
experiencingcoul d
thhaev
great
r esaatt
difficulty i
n foru
there was from not havingtelr on it a person with a fresh
English mind. Alllndian,;,encivyiepwesrswoenrewhohad E
andngsloisiht
would be here. The
be
would beuld Secretary
of State himself, who,
El seriously embarrassed from