The Sun.
London, England, 1867-05-30 00:00:00

LONDON, THURSDAY, MAY 30,1867.

It is well known that there are difficulties in
the way of all new schemes, and that if the Chan-
cellor
of the Exchequer, concerning the arrange-
merit of morning sittings, met with a check on
its fir-it trial. The " count out" was last night 1
made the subject of some discussion, but no par-
ticular conclusion was arrived at respecting it, ex- '
cept that the transaction had been a very unneces-
sary one. Certainly if this plan is to answer at'
all, it will not do for such summary proceeding%
to be adopted. Col. FRENCH called attention to
the subject, and stated that he did not complain
of the conduct of the Government, because its
members were all ready in their places ; but the
count out was due to a private member, who, at the
very commencement of the proceedings, rose and
moved that the House be counted, and he asked the
Home Secretary if the Government were inclined to
provide against the recurrence of such a thing.
Mr. G. HARDY replied that the Government only
acted in the spirit of the resolution of the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer, and they did their best to get
a house together. The right hon. gentleman said
that he could not account for the matter by saying
that it was an accident such as might occur in the best
regulated family,because it was no acciden t at all,since
there were plenty of mem')ers to make a house who
were outside. 111, ad led that the Government never
intended that private members should lose their
opportunities, and he felt " sure that no such oc-
currence as that of the count would take place

again."

We hope that this prediction will be verified,
because it was a most unfortunate thing for all
parties coneernel in the aff ,ir, and mad.: that ar-
rangement appear a failure which was in reality
admirably adapted to the state of things it referred
to. We expect that Mr. HAADY's definition of
the affair was the correct one, when he said that
the probability of the count out which they heard
of upon their arrival at this House, that it would
be counted out did not depend so much upon those
who were outside as upon those who were visible.
Colonel KNox's explanation of the steps he had
taken in the matter was not a satisfactory one,
although it acquitted him of any intention to in-
terfere deliberately with the Government scheme,
which he indeed opposed as being one likely to
further the interests of private members, and also
to procure advantages to the House. The
reason he gave for moving that the House
be counted was that he wished to prevent the com-
mittee on the Ecclesiastical Thla 13.11 from being
nominated, because, in his opinion, it was not pro-
perly constituted. We think that this was most
extraordinary conduct on the part of the hon. and
gallant member, and Mr. DESMAN.S remarks on
the subject were much to the point when he said
that he considered it a gross abuse of the spirit of
the laws of Parliament. Because there happened
to be on the paper a proposition which appeared ob-
noxious to him, that was no justification for him to
interfere with the business of Parliament by a
factious proceeding.
. _ _

We hope that there may b no repetition of such
proceedings, which cto serve no purpose but that
of retarding public business, and it is manifestly
unfair that all arrangements should be stopped be-
cause one unpopular thing, in the opini,n of some,
is to be znoved for. According to this theory a
count out might take place any nignc it some eag,:i
spirit were on the watch to prevent business being
carried on, so that the principle must be a false one
which dictates-such proceedings.

The evidence being given before the royal com-
mission on Trades Unions is in the highest degree
important and interesting. During its earlier sit-
tings much valuable information was elictel from
the secretaries and managers of the Trades Unions
themselves. We say elicitel adviselly, for there
was a manifest reluctance on Via part of these wit-
nesses to say more than could be helped. The con -
trast between the evidence of the employer and the
employed is very marked. The former are
not only ready but anxious to give full infor-
mation, and so far from measuring their words
or weighing their answers, they often volunteer
statements, and give practical illustrations of their
answers. The witnesses on behalf of the Unions,
on the contrary, for the most part speak with a
certain reserve, and the interrogatories have often
to be put in two or three different forms before a
direct answer can be obtained. In some cases where
circulars requesting information have been sent to
the Unions no answer has been vouchsafed. There
is a wish to preserve a clgree of mystery about
their proceedings, which may be attributable either
to a wish to enhance their dignity, or to a fear of
losing ground in public estimation. Certainly so far
as revelations have as yet gone, they have confirmed
the prevailing impression of the tyranny of the
system. Indeed the perpetual domination and inter-
ference that goes on with both masters and men
appears to lookers on simply intolerable. The rights
of labour, the independence of the workman, and
all other fine and liberal theories may sound very
well on the platform or the hustings, but they cvi-
lently will not do for the workshop. The accounts
of every-day life in this old-fashibnei, straight-
forward England of ours in this nineteenth
century ass.similate more closely to the do-
ings of the Inquisition or the Secret Tribunal
in the middle ages than to anything nearer at hand.
I:he incessant vigilance which is exercised over the
procee hugs of non-unionists is something wonder-
ful, and the sense of being so persistently watched
and spied must be of itself irritating and depress-
ing to either man or master. Here is an instance
cited before the Commission. Among the clerks of
some master house-painters at Blackpool, whose
names were given, was a non-union man, who had
been brought up as painter and writer. One day
when he was measuring some work he found that
the rods with which he usually measured were worn
out, and he therefore took a little paint and marked
the feet and inches afresh on the rods. Upon this
the committee of the Blackpool Operative House-
painters' Association addressed a remonstrance to
the employers, because " their book-keeper had been
Icing some writing or painting, he not being a

uainter."

Many other cases were cited, illustrating the
same medilesome and aggressive spit it, and the
manner in which the Unionists take advantage of
ti pressure of work to threaten the masters
is, to say the least of it, mean. One fruitful
source of dispute is the employment of their
own relations by the masters when th"y are
not Union men. Mr. TANNER, a master slater,
and plasterer of Liverpool, has two sons work-
:ng at the trade. He received an intimation from
the men working with them that if they did not
subscribe to the union the same as those who were
in the shop they would strike against them. Mr.
CANNER ultimately g we the required amount rather
than disturb the work, more peremptory and un-