The Sun.
London, England, 1858-02-23 00:00:00

the revenues of this country they should be independent
of all aid from the Imperial Exchequer. There have
been loans from the Government to the East India
Company, bat I am not aware that there has been any
grant of public money from the British Exchequer to
the Company. I can see no ground for departing from
that invariable practice, and I hope the committee will
agree that this bill is founded upon a just principle, and
that, should it be passed, the East India Company will
have no difficulty in raising money as they may require
it for the wants of India. The Company, I must observe,
do not contemplate an immediate call upon the money
market for so large an amount of loan as the bill men-
tions. If they raise two or three millions within the next
six months, that is quite as much as they are likely to
require, but as cacumstances arise they will takea million
or so in order to defray current expenses in India, and
therefore it is that so wide a margin has been taken in
the bill. Every one will see that it would not be a suffi-
cient justification for calling Parliament together next
October or November simply because a bill was necessary
to enable the East India Company to borrow another
million. While upon the one hand there is nothing in
this bill which is likely to bring any prospective charge
upon the British Exchequer, upon the other hand it
provides the means for raising money at the least prac-
ticable cost to the taxpayers of India. It is admitted
there is a real want of money. Then, what is to be
done ? Has anybody anything better to propose I It
is clear the current revenues of the East India Company
are in the present conjuncture insufficient ti meet their
expenditure, and the question which these facts raise
is whether they can borrow sufficient funds in India. I
understand the Indian loans do not fill as rapidly as
would be necessary to enable the wants of the present
year to be met by that means. What course, then,
could the East India Company adopt but to borrow the
money in London ? If you will not permit that there
only remains the question whether the British Exche-
quer should supply any deficiency. Really the reason-
able and proper coarse to pursue appears to me to be
so obvious in the present necessarily embarrassed state
of the Indian finances that I cannot but believe the
committee will he satisfied with the explanations I have
given.
Mr. T. BARING regretted that the right hon. gen-
tleman had thought it necessary to make such a long
speech in the present state of thy house. The right hon.
gentleman had challenged opinions upon three points of
the state of Indian finance—on the power of the India
Company to borrow money, and to what eaten', and
whether there was any claim upon the honour and
liberality of this nation to support the Company, in
order to enable them to meet their engagements. He
(Jr. Baring) was not one of those who thought so badly
of Indian finance. The right hon. gentleman said the
Company could always borrow money in London. If
that was so he (Mr. Baring) should like to hear him and
the Chairman of the East India Company state why
they slid not borrow on as good terms last autumn—
(hear, hear)—and why the right hon. gentleman did not
raise the rate upon India Bends so as to place them on
the same footing as the most favoured railway shares.
He thought the reason was plain ; it was because the
right hon. gentleman thought that would interfere with
his own Exchequer Bills. It seemed to him (Mr. Bar-
ing), looking at the state of the house, and knowing the
state of the Government, that it was most objectionable
to give power to borrow 8,000,0001. when there was
only 6,000,0001. wanted, and giving that power to they
knew not whom. (Hear, hear.) They knew there
was to be a council, hut that was all they knew, and
therefore he repeated it was objectionable to give
a power to borrow 8,000,0001., when not more than
6,000,000/. were required. ([Lear, hear.) Much
had been said regarding our liability from Indian
debt, but this be would remark, that hehoped so long as
England retained the possession of our Indian empire it
never would repudiate such obligations. He maintained
we were bound to keep the Indian finances in order so
long as we assumed the responsibility of administering
them. The late Sir R. Peel had observed that there was
no direct connection between the finances of India and
of this country, but that we were bound to keep those
finances in a state of regularity ; and that to say there
was no connection between Indian finances and the
finances of this country, was to take a merely superficial
view, and that any serious disorder in Indian finance
would be felt generally throughout this country. The
hon. gentleman also quoted the opinion of Sir C. Wood,
spoken on June 3, 1853, to the same effect. For the
British Government to say that it had nothing to do
with Indian finance, as the right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor o' the Exchequer seemed to say, was in effect
to cause the Government of India to borrow at the
highest posible rate of interest. He apologised to the
house for so long trespassing on them, but the Chancel•
lor of the Exchequer had most unexpectedly made a
long speech, much of which he felt called for his marked
dissent.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex-
plained. The hon. gentleman who had just sat down
had not fairly represented what he said. He did not
say the British Crown might be indifferent to the pos-
session of India, but that he entertained serious doubts
as to the value of India to this country. He repeated
that the exchequer of England derived no advantage from
India, but he admitted fully that we were bound to ob-
serve all our engagements with tthe native princes
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY al,o explained. He hoped
the house would see what the state of the Indian revenue
was before it permitted a fresh debt to be contracted.
Sir F. BARING regretted that the right hon. gen-
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had brought this
great subject before the committee, but he supposed his
right hon. friend thought that as Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer he would not have another opportunity of
doing so. He (Sir F. Baring) adhered to his former
views regarding the responsibility of this country for
Indian loans. He wished the loan to be no more than
8,000,0001.
Mr. WILLIAMS did not see what connection there
was between an Indian loan and the taxation of this
country. He hoped never to see the views of the hon.
gentleman the member for Huntingdon adopted here.
Mr. V. SMITH did not desire to raise a large question
concerning Indian finance, but if such a question was
raised the blame was attributable to the hon. gentleman
the member for Evesham. He did not see why India
should not be at liberty to borrow as well as any of our
colonies.
Mr. CRAWFORD said the imperial revenues were
answerable for the capable stock of the East India
Company.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied
that this was so.
Mr. AYRTON gave his opinion of the nature of the
guarantee. He trusted the right hon. gentleman would
not press the bill through committee, considering that
there was no responsible Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended
the form in which the bill was drawn, and said that
neither in law nor equity would the imperial revenues
be made answerable for the liabilities of the Indian
exchequer.
After a short discussion,
Mr. MANGLES said that it was necessary the Com-
pany should be supplied with funds to go on ; if the bill
were not passed through committee that night, it would
probably be delayed until after Easter, and the Company
would be without the necessary funds.
The committee then proceeded to the consideration of
the clauses.
Upon clause 1,
Mr. LINDSAY said that he understood from the
Chancellor of the Exchequer that only two or three
millions would be required for the next six months ; he
would therefore propose as an amendment to the clause
that the VIM of 8,000,000/. be reduced to 2,000,0001. :
ihat sum would probably be sufficient for the next three
months; and after that period Parliament would pto-
bebly know in what situation the Company would be
placed.
Mr. MANGLES said that the very small sum pro•
posed would be totally inadequate to meet the emer-
gencies of India.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped
the amendment would not be pressed. The hon. gen-
tleman was confounding two things which were quite
distinct—namely, the way of borrowing for the Imperial
Government, and the way of borrowing for the East
India Company. All that this bill would give the coin-
pacy was the power of borrowing to a certain extent up
to April, 1859 ; but the company would probably not
take up more than two or three millions immediately.
The first clause was then agreed to.
After a short discussion,
Mr. CRAWFORD asked whether the stock to be
issued ender the bill would have priority over any other
Indian etaeo t
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
would have no preference.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the
bill was reported to the house.
The other orders were adjourned until Friday next.
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH.
Mr. COWPER obtained leave to bring in a bill to
confirm a provisional order of the General Board of
Health, for the application of the Public Health Act to
the district of Skipton, in the West Riding of the county
of York.
ABSTRACTION OF INCOME TAX RETURNS.
On the motion of Mr. CRAWFORD an address was
agreed to, for copies of ail
.correspoudence which has
taken place upon the subject of the abstraction of income
tax returns in the City of London.
The house adjourned at half•past nine o'clock until
Friday next.

Mr. Colville paired in favour of Mr. M. Gibson's
reAolution and against the second reading of the Con•
511"acy Bill with the Hon. W. B. Portman.

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lost his life. It appeared that on Saturday a number of
young country fellowe, of the agricultural class, attended
a club meeting in Cove, after which they adjourned to
the Plough Inn, to have some refreshment. About 12
o'clock a qua] rel arose between two of them, named
John Rummay and 'William Goddard, and they got to
blows, after fighting some little time the latter drew
forth a knife, and not only stabbed, but ripped up the
abdomen of hia unfortunate opponent. The bystanders
were perfectly horrified on perceiving the entrails of the
unfortunate Runamay protruding through the wound,
and they, without delay, removed him to the Plough
Inn, and a medical gentleman was at once rent for.
Such, however, was the event of the frightful injuries
he received that to prolong his life was beyond all human
aid.
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