The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-31 00:00:00

while the members of the Government in that House were
in favour of competitive examination, and only opposed
a technical difficulty to its being enforced by Act of Perlis.
,nent, the head of the Goverdueent in the other hone
poke of the principle of competition as being "en
its trial," and thought it would be " highly inje-
licious to tie up the heeds of the Executive Govern-
ment," and oblige them to take the parsons who had
sustained the best examinations. (Hear, hear.) It did
not, therefore, appear to be in the contemplation of the
noble earl to give appointments as a matter of course to
those who sustained the bast examinations. (Hear, hear.)
He thought the cempetitive principle the best security
that could be adopted for securing the efficiency of the
services in the Indian army, and therefore he hoped they
would disagree with the Lords' amendment. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I am one of those who are ie
favour of the principle of appointments by competitive
examination. I think it is a great improvement of recent
times, but at the same time it is not universally applicable.
(Hear.) With regard to the civil service I think it is an
excellent system, provided always that the standard of
examination is not too high—(hear, hear)—and that per-
sons are not expected to be full of more knowledge than is
necessary as a test of their capaity for the service. (Hear.)
My opinion is that it is also a good system for the officers
of the scientific branches of the army, because in regard
to them high attainments are of the first importance.
(Hear.) At the same time, it is right to admit that the
application of the system to the scientific branches is but
of recent standing, and therefore those who entertain a
different opinion from me may fairly be entitled to require
a somewhat longer experience of the practical result of the
system than has yet been obtained. (Hear.) My hon.
and gallant, friend who has just sat down is right in saying
that the application of the system of competitive examina-
tion to the scientific branches of the British army has been
perfectly satisfactory, and especially in that country of
which he is so distinguished an ornament, and which has
contributed a very large number of young men who are a
credit to the profession with which they are connected.
(Hear.) I disagree, however, with the hon. and learned
member for Sheffield when he speaks of the applicability
of competitive examinations for officers of the line. (Hoar.)
The test of learning which you would apply to a young
man who is a candidate for a commission would be no
necessary test of his capacity for the service in which he is
to be engaged. (Hear.) It would be just as if you
wished to find out whether or not a man was an excellent
pugilist, and the test you applied was whether he
could run fast. (A. laugh.) The test is not at all of the
kind which would prove whether the man was capable of
discharging tie duties which he ha 1 to perform. ( Hear.)
My opinion, then, is that the house is right in maintain.
ing for the civil service of India the system of competitive
examinations which has now been established for several
years. I am also of opinion that it would be expedient to
establish the same system for the scientific branches of the
Indian army which you have .steblished for the scientific
branches of the general army. (Hear, hear.) So far as I
understand the question we ate now called on to deter-
mine, it is simply ono as to the manner in which the com-
petitive examination is to be adopted. (Hear.) I think
there is great force in the argument that it would be a de-
parture from the ordinary principles of the constitution if
we were to pass an act of Parliament which should mender
it imperative rn the Sovereign to give commissions to par-
ticular individuals. (Hear, hear.) I think the regulations
which shall establish a competitive examination for the
scientific branches of the Indian army ought to be based
on orders in Council coming from the "loyal authority, and
not be a system imposed by a standing law. (Hear.) If,
therefore, I am to understand from the Government that
they are prepared to pledge themselves that they will issue
an order in Council establishing competitive examinations
for the scientific branches of the Indian army, I should
prefer that mode of accomplishing the object to having it
done by act of Parliament. ( Hear.) We have now arrived
at the moment wh ii this bill must pass into a law. We
have all of us in the course of the discussions that have
taken place been compelled to surrender opinions which
we have entertained, and the result will be a general com-
promise on the part cf all those who have taken part in
carrying forward the measure. (Hear, hear.) As the Lords
have adopted almost all the amendments we made, I am
inclined to think that it would be graceful on our part to
yield to them upon this question, (Hear, hear) I think,
also, that the method of proceeding by order in Council
would be more in accordance with the general principles of
the constitution than if we were to enforce the principles
we are in favour of by WI act, of Parliament. (Hear, hoar.)
Mr. WHITE said there was an essential difference be-
tween the podtion of the army of India and the army of
this country. In this country we passed a Mutiny Act
for
rd
India, votedthe
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their
army. He was not prepared to give the Crown at much
power as was here proposed without imposing a check of
some kind or other. (Hear, hear.) He thought that this
house would do well to insist upon their original bill, and
as nobody who was right could be ridiculous, he should, if
he stood alone, divide the house upon the subject. (Hear.)
Col. SYK ES said that if, as he understood was the case,
the Government intended to adhere in the army to the
practice adopted iu the Queen's army--if cadets intended
for the scientific branches were to compete for entry into
a military college—he should vote with the noble lord
(Stanley) on this question. (Hear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM—Before the President of the Council
addresses the house it will perhaps be convenient for him
to hear the opinion of different members, who, like myself,
have taken some little interest in the subject now under
discussion. I entirely agree with the Chancellor of the
Exchequer that this question of Indian patronage has
really been the obstacle certainly for half a century, to the
transfer of the government of India from the Company to
the Crown. It has really been at the root of the anomaly
which has continued to the present time the government
of that mighty empire in the hands of a commercial body.
I have always felt the right solution of that question to
to be one of immense constitutional difficulty ; and among
other reasons which swayed me throughout this session, in
an earnest desire for the postponement of the decision
upon the change of government, was the difficulty which I
felt respecting the future distribution of this Indian
patronage. Now, I am bound to say that in my humble
judgment the bill before us, as it went up from the Com-
mons to the Lot ds, did in a very fair manner solve the dif-
ficulty in the distribution of patronage which it provided.
(Hear, hear.) To her Majesty directly was given by the
29th clause of this bill a great accession of patronage.
The Governor-General of India, the Governors of the Pre-
sidencies, the fourth member of the Council of India, and
the Advocate-General—all these officers are henceforth to
be appointed by her Majesty under warrant and by her
sign menu's. It placed these offices at the disposal of her
Majesty, acting by her constitutional advisers, whereas
heretofore none of these appointments were made by the
Crown ; and with respect, I think, only to one of them,
that of the Governor-General (I am not quite sure as to
the Governors of the Presidencies), the power of veto only
was vested in her Majesty. Then, with respect to the civil
atlhrreeaedyyestaartsedu,ndtheer arrangement
an order
ent
Council—namely, that the civil service shall be open to
patronage, n a
igiae a
valthe free competition of all classes-- has now been confirmed
prevailed has
setl been
for
by a clause assented to by both houses, and is thus ren-
dered irrevocable except by a repeal of this act duly
sanctioned by the Legislature. Now, such a concession
appears to me a most important one. It recognises for the
first time in an act of Parliament the principle of open
competition with reference to a great branch of th public
service. Much. therefore, as it appears to rue, is gained
by the measure as it stands. But then comes the consti-
tutional question. By tying up that, or other portions of
the patronage, do we infringe the prerogative ? The House
of Lords in their reasons seem to assert that such an in-
fringement is involved in the clause, as we sent it up to
them, respecting a portion of the Indian patronage Now,
I cannot. draw that fine distinction between the military
patronage and other large portions of the civil patronage.
(Hear, hear.) In the very clause which gives to her Ma-
j -sty the great appointments I have mentioned, those of
the Gov rnor-General end the Governors of the Presiden-
cies, there is a special reservation of another very im-
portant branch of patronage relating to the councils of
the Governors of the different presidencies ; and there
\ is a statutable assignment of the patronage for ever.
not to her Majesty, but to the Secretary of State
in Council, with the concurrence of a majority of
his council. The clause does not say that her Mejesty's
pleasure shall be taken. It does not. even provide
that these appointments shall take place under the sign
manual. As I read the clause these appointments are abso-
lutely vested in the Secretary of State and a majority of
his council. Here, then, is a very important branch of
patronage not to be exercised by the Crown ; and with re-
spect to the junior members of the civil service I have
already stated that these appointments are, by the consent
of the House of Lor is, henceforth to be given to those who
upon an examination shalt stand first in point of merit.
The constitutional objection, therefore, whatever relay be
its force, appears to me to apply equally to both these pro-
visions. (Hear.) Now, it is very remarkable that in the bill
of the noble lord (Palmerston) it was provided that there
should be an attestation in respect to the European troops
to be furnished by her Majesty in Council. The bill sent
up to the Lords provides no such attestation, and does not
deal in the slightest degree with the transfer to the Crown
of the attesting power with respect to the European por-
tion of the Indian army. Clause 4) in the noble for .'e bill
declared that all Indian officers henceforth shoul f be the
officers of her Majesty. There is no such declaration in the
bill which we sent up to the other house. We have hitherto
studiously reserved the question o the Indian army. It
was so stated by the noble lord (Stanley), who, in answer
' to the right hon. gentlemen (Mr. V. Smith), said that the
whole question of the Indian army was referred to a com-
mission here, and partly also to a commission in India, and
• that the subj cts. connected with the reorganisation of? that
army were not to be mixed up with the question at present
under discussion. Now, clause 33 of this bill, as we sent it
no to the Lords, has drewn quite rightly the distinction be-
tween the military and the civil service,. It has most
guardedly recognised to a certain extent the authority of
wChr'o)wlenr;pypeotiulvmitehnotusttomtahkeilnngdaiacnomar
eyt.e c‘(v)
tc
he s sr concession
rodf
the
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to the civil service it is distinctly provided that those pt-r-
-sone only, without exception, who shall succeed in open
competition shall be appointed; and as to the military ser-
vice, clause 33 enacts that the names of alt persons Domi-
no.' ed in the manner which the bill provides shall be sub-
mitted and recommended to her Majesty. But there is a
reservation as to the scientific branches—the artillery and
engineers ; and in the clause immediately following that to
which I have adverted, even with respect to them, as we
sun it up to the Lords, persons who receive the certificate
of superior merit are to be recommended for these appoint-
ments ; clearly, therefore, recognising the general control-
ling power of the Crown—not going the length as regards
the reilitary which we went as regards the civil service—
but adhering to the principle that open competition in the
Indian army, as in her Majesty's army in the scientific
branches, ought to he the rule of appointmeet. (1-rear,
hear.) Now, it only remains to consider the question as
between an Order in Council aod the statute, If I could
bring myself to believe that the application of the statute
to the Indian er.ey, in which her Majesty's authority is
not now supreme, was a dangerous infringement of the
prerogative, nothing would induce me to vote in favour of
that principle. It appears to me, however, that there is
no such infraction of this prerogative. But we are told
that we in this house are enamoured of this principle of
open competition, and that it may with advantage be ap-
plied to ourselves. (A laugh.) Now, Ido not wish to bandy
any jeers trod gibes of that kind with the other House of
Parliarneut. (Hear.) To do so would conduce neither to
the advantage of this house nor be quite consistent with
the public interests. (Hear.) I am, however, entitled to
ask, where is hereditary wisdom to be found? (bear, and
a laugh.) In what consists the justice of the taunt that
India must henceforth be governed by gentlemen to the
exclusion of the middle classes—a gentleman being defined
to be something between a peer of Parliament and those
who buy and sell. (llear, and a laugh.) Is this, I would
• 'ask, the ()Lily fo.g.atuent tiaat can ha advaucW agllLst the