The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-23 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.-4YRSTERDAY,)
The Loup CIIANOBLLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
LEASES AND SALES OF SETTLED ESTATES.
Lord CRANWORTH brought in a bill to amend a
defect in the bill passed in 1356. The defect complained
of was that by the bill married women residing abroad
wishing to dispose of property were put to inconvenience
in consequence of being obliged to employ an offioer of
the English Court of Chancery.
The bill was read a first time.
INDEPENDENCE OF PARLIAMENT BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition in favour
of this bill, the object of which was to require peers and
members of the Commons House of Parliament, as well
as other persons to pay their just debts without being
privileged from arrest.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the provisions of
the noble and learned lord's bill, which stood for
a second reading that evening, very seriously inter-
fered with the privileges of both houses of Parliament,
and such being the case he trusted the noble
and learned lord would not, in the absence of the noble
earl at the head of the Government, press forward the
bill.
Lord BROUGHAM said he had no wish to go on
with the bill in the absence of the noble earl. The bill
was by no means a new one, and he regretted there
elLould be any delay in proceeding with it, yet under the
c;ecumatances mentioned by the noble and learned lord
on the woolsack, he bad no objection to the postpone-
meat of the discussion.
Liao second reading of the bill was then postponed.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
On the motion of Lord REDESDALE the following
bills were read Cornwall time : —Brantford and Rich-
mond- R.ailway, Railway, East Suffolk, Yar-
mouth anti Haddescoe and Lowestoft and Beccles
Railway Amalgamation, Norwich Gas, Eastern Coun-
ties Railway-,
bills were
The following read a third time and passed :
—HAr. ycl'e I:state, Eastern Steam Navigation Corn
pany, Globe Insurance Company, Cromford and High
Peak Railway, Manchester Poor, Wallasey Improve-
ment, Ballymena- and Balleymoney, CAraine and Port
rush Junction, iTar Bridge, Liverpool Improvement,
and London and South-Western Railway.
THE OATHS BILL.

The Earl of MALMESBURY moved that a com-
mittee, consisting of certain noble lords, be appointed
to draw up reasons for their lordships persevering in
their objection to the Commons' amendments to the bill,
and that the said reasons be sent to the Commons on
Thursday next. The noble lord appealed to bis
noble and learned friend (Lord Lyndhurst) to postpone
proceeding with his bill in the absence of his noble

friend.
Lord LYNDHURST said he was extremely sorry
for the cause of the postponement. He bad no objec-
tion to postpone his bill, but what was the course to be
pursued wi h respect to Lord Lucan's bill.
The Earl c f LUCAN said his bill could be postponed
tintil the same day as the noble and learned lord's.
After a few words from Lord Campbell, Lord
Brougham, and Earl Grey, the second reading of the
bill was postponed till Thursday week.
PROBATE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
Lord GRAN WORTH moved the third reading of this
bill.
Lord T. LEONARDS said he had a great objection
to the 19th clause, which was to vest the property of
intestates, in case of failure of heir, in the era wn.
He
moved that the words "judge ordinary" be inserted in-
stead of the word " crown."
Their lordships then divided—
Contents 22
Non-contents 22
The numbers being equal the LORD CRANORLLOR e•
Glared the amendment to be carried.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
DIVORCE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
Lord CRA.NWOR'TII moved the third reading of this

bill.
Lord REDESDALE said that on a former evening,
when he had called attention to the extreme rapidity
with which undefended suits had been hurried through
the court, he was assured that nothing could be more
certain than that due inquiry bad been made into every
case, whether undefended or not. Since then he bad
heard from persons practising in the court that serious
objections were felt as to the manner in which causes
were disposed of. On a single day no fewer than one de.
fended and nine undefended petitions were granted ; and
one of those cases only occupied 11 minutes —probably a
less time than the union which was dissolved had in the
first instance taken to cement. It was really impossible
in that short space to make a proper investigation.
(Hear, hear.) He was told that in the cases in question
the parties had long lived apart, or the respondent was
charged with bigamy, but that was no answer at all ;
because there was no proof that the wife's conduct bad
not itself led to the separation or the bigamy. In point
of fact there were no cases in which collusion was more
to be suspected than cases of this description ; and
though it might be impossible for them to receive the
same care as used to be bestowed upon them by their
lordships, he hoped that at least more care would be
shown in future. (Hear, hear.)
Lord CAMPBELL complained of the noble lord's
conduct in standing up in his place and impeaching the
conduct of the judges of the land. He thought that such
a step was a nary rash and ill-advised one. Ile had him-
self had the honour of presiding in the Divorce Court on
four or 'five'days, and he would underteke to say that no
case that had come before their lordships bad ever been
more deliberately considered than those which had been
decided by the court while he was present. Since then
Lord Chief-Justice Cockburn and Mr. Justice Wight-
man had attended, than whom no more learned or cau-
tious judges had ever sat in Westminster-hall. Of Lord
Chief-Justice Cockburn the highest expectations had
been entertained ; but those expectations had been more
than fulfilled by the learning, the caution, and the
vigilance which he had uniformly displayed since his
elevation to the judicial bench. He felt certain that
the cases tried before Lord Chief-Justice Cockburn had
been as fully sifted as those which bad come before him
(Lord Campbell). He believed that in the nine cases re-
ferred to, there had not been the possibility of collusion,
and that there was not the slighest ground for the sus-
picion of any improper haste in arriving at a decision.
He believed, too, that the court would have a most salu-
tary effect in preventing bigamy from being so common
in future as was now the case, because there was no
doubt that the impossibility of obtaining a die, olution of
marriage under the old system, had bad a direct. ten-
dency to produce bi.arny amongst the lower orders.
The Bishop of OXFORD said the noble and learned
lord bad read his noble friend a very unnecessary lecture,
for his noble friend had really done no more than speak
out that which was felt by a large number of persons
bath in their lerdships' house and in thecountry. (Cheers.)
Many of their lordships, who had given a somewhat rapid
adhesion to the Divorce Bill, were beginning to be of
opinion that too great facilities were afferded for the dis-
solution of roarria6e ; and those who felt the sacredness
of the marriage bond, however they might think that for
great causes it, might be dissolved, were beginning to
regard with apprehension the rapidity with which suits
could be carried through the court. (Hear.) Toe noble
and learned lord said that in nine cases which were dis-
solved the other day the parties had long been living apart.
That was precisely the stafe of things in which they
might expect to meet with collusion—a state of things,
namely, in which both the parties were desirous of dis-
solving the connexion between them. (Rear.) His noble
friend had not impugned the conduct of the court ; he
bad only called attention to a fact which was well calcu•
dated to excite alarm amongst the thinking people of this
country. (Rear.)
Earl GRANVILLE did not object to any member cf
their lordships' house speaking out what he felt ; on the
contrary, if he thought there was any abuse in the ad-
ministration of justice it was hie duty to bring the sub-
ject before Parliament. Neverthless, he considered that
a severe reflection ought not to be cast upon the mem-
bers of an important court by a noble lord in an official
position without giving notice to those upon whose con-
duct he thought proper to make remarks.
Lord CRANWORTH said that the rapidity with
which a court disposed of the business before it was an
advantage, unless it could be shown that there was an
undue baste, or a want of proper precaution. But he
should like to know in what respect the old system af-
forded a better guarantee against collusion than the new
one i He protested that there was no advantage what-
ever on the side of the old procedure. No doubt there
was an accumulation of ca es just now among the pauper
classes, but nothing that bad occurred excited the least
doubt in his mind as to the policy of the Divorce Act.
Lord ST. LEONARDS knew nothing about the court
except from what he had read in the papers, but he had
read with great attention the reports of its proceedings,
and he certainly thought there was no fault to be Lund
with the manner in which the learned judges discharged
their functions. Under the old system the:r lordships
had no power whatever to detect collusion. (Hear.)
The Earl of WICKLOW said injustice hail beers done
to the noble lord the chairman of committees by the noble
lord, who said that he had brought forward this subject
without notice. In point of feet, the noble lord gave no-
tice when he mentioned the subject the other night, and
the noble lord the Chief Justice ought to have been suf
ficiently prepared for a repetition of those remarks. For
his own part he felt much obliged to the noble lord
(Lord Redesdale) for bringing the subject forward.
Lord CAMPBELL had never heard anything more
illogical than the speech of the noble earl. (Cries of
spoke, and order.)
Viscount MELVILLE rose to order. The noble and
learned lord had o r ght to make another sp, eel).
Lord CAMPBELL had a right to make an explana-
tion. If the noble lord had been a lie tle more familiar
With the forms of their lordships' house he would not
have interposed. There bad been no notice given.
(Loud critis of ,seder.)
The Bishop of OXFORD rose to ord r.
Lord CA XPBELL--1 Lace a right to offer an ex-
planation.
The Biahnp"a OXFORD —What
The noble and teartied lord
answering n is tgh thee ex
pnloabalaeticoantl!
(clear.)
Lord CAMPBELL, 'however, continued hie remarks
for a few moments longer, but, it was amid loud cries of
" Order."
Lord REDESDALE also wished to explain. Many
things had been attributed to him which be lad
never
said. He had cast no imputation upon members of the
court. He bad only called attention to a system, and
be must repeat that the rapidity with which gases
had
been disposed of was incompatible with due precautions
against these practices against which' their lordships
used so carefully-to guard.
Earl GRANVILLE rose to order. The noble lord
was hardly giving an explanation.
Lord BROUGHAM thought that greater licence had

been allowed o the Chairman of Committees than to ate
Lord Chief Justice.
The bill was then read a third time and passed,
The Peace Preservation (Ireland) Act Contioxiance
Bill was read a third time and passed.
DELAYS IN CHANCERY.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said that sor.ne time ago
a noble lord (Lord Lifforti) called his attention to cer-
tain complaints which had been made with regard to the
state of the Court of Chancery, and he mentioned a par-
ticular case in which he understood the noble lord him-
self was in some degree interested. He (the Lord
Chancellor) had misapprehended the direction of the
noble lord's complaint, which he-had understood re-
ferred to the delay that had taken place in the chief
clerk's office. Helhad made inquiry into the subject, and
he had had the valuable assistance of a noble and learned
friend of much greater experience than himself, and who
would be able to give their lordships much more accu-
rate information. He (the Lord Chancellor) had required
a report to be made to him ; and from that report it
would appear that there were some grounds for the
noble lord's complaint, although the blame did not at-
tach to the chief clerk's office. It appeared that a mat-
ter had been referred to a Master in Chancery in March,
1850, and the Master's report was not made until Dec ,
1855. Zor that long , and unjustifiable delay not
the slightest explanation was afforded. It had, how-
ever, taken place under the old system ; and since the
matter had come into the chief clerk's office no delay
was attributable to him. The order for an inquiry was
made in June, 1856 ; and the order was rather of a
complicated description. It was for the purpose of
ascertaining what portions of a certain fund paid into
court had been received on account of the settled and
unsettled estate; what annuities were in existence, and
what arrears still remained to be paid. When the chief
clerk appointed a day for the parties to meet, it fre-
quently Kapp( cad that they were not ready, and the
matter had to be adjourned. There were only two days
on which the postponement had been occasioned by the
chief clerk himself. There was an annuitant who was

dead, but the noble lord, and those whose interest the
noble lord represented, bad no possibility of proving that
fact. There was no knowledge of it, except that which
existed in the breast of the parties who opposed him ;
but the noble lord informed him that the solicitor on the
other side was perfectly aware of the death of the man.

He submitted •to the noble lord that there was an easy

remedy by calling the solicitor before the chief cler,
but the noble lord told him that the chief clerk had no
power whatever to summon parties before him. He
could not have believed that such a state of things o)uld
have existed. However, he believed that the case to
which the noble lord had referred was now almost ripe
foz the certificate of the chief clerk. There had been

consiJerable delay in the case, but that delay was not at-
tributable so much to the chief clerk as to the old
system. With regard to the delay in the office c 4 the
chief clerk, the noble lord had made a thorough investi-
_ _

getion. His noble and learned friend had submit' ed
some changes which might be introduced, and if they
were adopted, he believed hie noble and learned friend
would be of opinion that the business it the chief clerks
might be conducted in a satisfactory manner.
Loral ST. LEONARDS, who spoke in a low and in-
distinct tone, so as to be frequently inaudible, said the
statement of the noble lord was one that called for ex-
planation. Their lordships were aware that by the act
of 1852 great alterations in the procedure of the Court
of Chancery were made. The masters were abolished
they were judges of a minor character. By the altera-
tions it was provided that there should be no person act-
ing in the character of a judge but thejudge htmsele and
that he should have a chief clerk, to whom matters of
detail should be referred. The object was to avoid the
necessity of referring matters in the cause, and having
long reports from the masters, and to keep the chief clerk
in the chamber of the judge in constant communication
witu him, to enable the clerk to receive the instructions
of the judge, and thus come to a conclusion with a say•
ing of expense, of time, and of labour. The chief clerks
had thrown upon them onerous duties ; they had inqui-
ries to prosecute as to who were heirs at law or next of
kin, to decide on questions under the Winding-up Act,
and a variety of other business to transact. The noble
lord asked if the chief clerks prosecuted each matter de
die in diem. He could not answer that question, but the
instructions he laid down when Lord Chancellor were
that, as far as possible, each case should be proceeded
with de die in diem, before they commenced with another
Lord CAMPBELL observed that they did not give
the whole day to a case, but only one hour.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said at some offices he knew
they proceeded the whole day, but there were other
offices where they did cot act upon that system, but hay •
ing appointed certain matters for the day, when the hour
or two hours allotted to a particular case had expired
they went on with another case. That was one of those
things that required to be corrected ; and the noble and
learned lord on the woolsack, with the judges, could
easily correct that and lay down one uniform rule for
all the offices. He believed that the new system worked
admirably. When it was first adopted he went to each
judge and communicated with him, and then he went to
the chief clerks' chambers, and saw the chief clerks, who
showed him their systems, and he never was so struck
with the competency of men. The plan was this,
for every day there was a paper drawn up of all
the business to be done during that day. They first
took all the business that was unopposed, and then
Until 11 or 12 o'clock they finished the cases that re-
mained for deci-ion. After that the heavy cases came
on, and they proceeded with them as far as they could.
They worked till 4 5, or 6 o'clock, and did as cinch as
it was possible for men to accomplish, But it was fre-
quently impsssible to proceed with a case until it was
finished. For instance, a heavy case was fixed for a
Tuesday, and perhaps one hundred persons, many of
them from the country, would have to prove their debts
in the case ; but a case which had been expected to be
concluded on the Monday was not concluded, and if
they put off the case which had been fixed for the
Tuesday the parties would be greatly inconvenienced.
With regard to receivers, when the court appointe I a
receiver it ought to see that he did his duty. Some of
the chief clerks thought they ought not to take an
active part with regard to receivers. He thought
differently ; and he would have a rule promulgated that
the chief clerks should at the end of every term make
out a list of all receivers who had not passed their ac-
counts. This list he would have hung up in the Lord
Chancellor's court, and if within fourteen days after-
wards the receiver did not pass his accounts, the solici or
to the suitors' fund should be instructed to proceed
against the receiver, and to apply to the court to appoint
another. He had said that in appointing the chief
clerks one great object had been that they should be in
constant communication with the judge. The chief clerk
ought to be in the chambers of the judge, and to have
constant access to him. But from the confined, space on
which the courts were built, the requisite accommoda-
tion could not be given, and in consequence each judge
bad a set of chambers at some die ance from the court.
He saw no way of obv:ating this difficulty but by taking
down the range of buildings at the east end of Stone-
buildings, and building new courts there, with the re-
quisite chambers attached, He might observe that one
of the great evils in the administration of properly was
the long continuance of a manager or receiver, who
generally considered himself master of the property,
and nothing was more difficult than to get rid of him ;
and with regard to the selling of property, he thought
the court ought not to fix a high price, and he did
not know whether it would not be. best .to announce
to the world that the sale would be without reserve.
He thought it was due to the character of the court to
make these statements, from which it would be seen
that there had been every desire to remedy the evils that
existed.
Lord CRANWORTH said he bad beard the state-
ment of his noble and learned friend (Lord St. Leonardo)
with the most unmixed satisfaction. His noble and
learned friend had the happiness of being instrumental,
in a great degree, in reforming the Court of Chancery.
It was his (Lord Gran worth's) fate to receive the great
seals just as those reforms came into operation. It little
booted the public to know that the holder of the great
seal did not come into contact with the officers of the
court, but he felt it was one of the duties imposed upon
him to see that the new system should operate fairly and
in the mode contemplated by the act of parliament ;
and in order to accomplish that obj,ct ho adopted the
course every term of having an interview with the
judges, who used to C 91,18 to him in the evening, when
they discussed the alterations made and how for they
worked well. It was the universal feeling of the judges
that the proceeding in every contested matter which had
been begun should continue till it was ended, but though
that was unquestionably the correct theory, it was im-
possible to carry it out in practice. They might re-
quire the debts against an estate to be proved, and there
might he creditors in India or Australia. Then a case,
which it had been calculated would be finished on a
Saturday, was not finished, and another case had been
previouly fixed for the following Monday. B, fore ha
lboef tmtandee great
nsoeatliegla
ies
af etlotritahla
bt
ut
th emreecahl
ainmi
cparlo. vle
tm
we notu tl
do
be
placedan i n advantagean ai
ryc
leeboreimkynsfoonrdt
aabllle p ewe
ritf,
withhe judgea o cp oe
rufil du bt
ye
of chambers, where
immediate
eatdth.tmee
juniorl
contiguity
nt st
gc
uemightirtkys t o
ei wait,
co and
dt
ductwher e
theirthe
business chief
•
of the judge. (Hear.)
Lerd CAMPBELL expressed his great satisfaction at
the exilanation which had beeni given by the not le
and learned lord who had taken so much trouble to ire
eeHtigate the matter.
Lord LIFFORD said be had received numerous letters
from suitors, who felt the greatest satisfaction at the
promptness with which the question had been taken up
and invo-tigated.
The subject then dropped.
CHUI;CH RATES, TUE JEWS, so.

The Earl if CARLISLE, in presenting a petition from
the Society of Friends against church rates, baid he did
not feel called upon to declare the manner in which he
should vote before hearing whether her Majesty's GJ
vernrnent had any euggeetion to make on the slibj(ct.
His obj,:ct in giving notice of his intention to present
the petition was merely a mark of respect for the cha-
racter of the petition and the respectable body from
whom it proceeded. The petitioners were the members
of a body representing the Society ( f Friends in: Great
Britain, and he believed the petition conveyed the una,
nimous opinion of the members of the society generally.
They stated that they had for more than two centuries
stedfastly maintained those great principles which they
believed to be founded on the Gospel—that man is re-
sponsible to God alone in matters of religion, and that
legislative interference with the rights of conscience is
not only impolitic, but contrary to the spirit of true re-
ligion. They went on to say that, influenced by these
considerations they had felt themselves called upon to
refuse payment of chbrola rates, because they were en-
forced for the upholding of buildings.and- ceremonies in
connexion with a mode of worship which they did not
consider to be conformable to the spirit of the Christian
• religion. They expressed t'aeir gratification that a bill