The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-21 00:00:00

BARRACK KITCHENS.

the Board of Control, to which allusion has been so fre
quently made in debate. lam prepared to read that
extract. It will, however, be necessary that I should
first read an extract from a preceding letter, which is
explanatory of the extract in question. It is as fol.
lo as :—‘• Lord Canning, after giving his opinion as to
what course ought to be pursued with respect to the
mutineers, goes on thus :
" The talookdars, landowners, and their followers, men
who have not eaten our salt, who owe us nothing, who
think themselves (not unreasonably) wronged by us, are in
a very different category. I will proclaim for them a
large measure of mercy ani indulgence after Lucknow is
ours', but until that happens, or at least till Sir Cohn
Campbell's guns have opened upon the city, I will not put
out any public invitation to them. Individually, Mann
Singh, and all others who show a disposition to come in,
are being encouraged to do so. I consider this enough,
and do not believe that mortal man could frame a procla-
mation of pardon to penitent mutineers which, if issued
now to those in thick, would not be accepted as a sign of
hesitation, and weakness, and so work us mora evil than
good."
(Loud cheers and counter cheers.) I will now read an
extract from a letter of the 6th of March—
" My letter by the last mail mentioned a proclamation
which I intended to address to the Oade chiefs and land-
holders. It goes to you officially by this mail. I hoped
that it would be accompanied by an explanatory despatch
showing why it is in some respects so sweeping, and in
others so indulgent, and defending it by anticipation (for
it is sure to be attacked) on other points ; but I have had
things more urgent pressing upon me for every hour of
the past week. You will not, of course, print it until it
has been acted upon ; at present it stands only as part of
an instruction to Outram."
(Ironical casters and counter cheers.) These are the pas-
sages in Lord Canning's letter to my right hon. friend ;
but knowing that Lord Canning had al.o been in cor-
respondence with Lord Granville, his intimate friend, I
thought it desirable to ascertain from Lord Granville
whether be had received any communications from Lord
Canning touching this proclamation, and whether he
had thought them of sufficient importance to be shown
to the Government. My noble friend Lord Granville
wrote me, this day, the f die wing letter on the sub-

ject :
" In reply to your'questions respecting my private cor-
respondence with Lord Canning since the change of
Ministry, I beg to inform you that the only letter of poli-
tical importance is one which I received on the 19th, and
of which I read the greater part to Lord Ellenborough on
the 20th of April. I did not real the whole of it for rea-
sons which I have stated in public, and which it is not
necessary for me to repeat, but nothing of real importance
was omitted. Every word relating to the proclamation
was read, including the fact that General Outram had ob-
jected to its severity, and that Lord Canning had in conse-
quence added a sentence to the proclamation, which would
make it clear that, though confiscation of proprietary right
in the soil is the general penalty, restitution of it is the
reward for coming in and behaving well. I was not cer-
tain of the date of my communication to Lord Ellen-
borough, but he has kindly referred to his papers, and has
read to me a memorandum giving the exact date of it, and
in which it is stated that he informed me that he had
written to Lord Canning on the subject. Lord Ellen-
borough has stated that the secret despatch was written on
the 18th, dated the 19th, and sent on the 26th of April,
and bas intimated that no explanations or announcement
of explanations would have altered his view of the neces-
sity of writing and sending his secret despatch.
" GRANVILLE.

by what he had done, it would noibecotne the house to
follow s.o bad an example. (Loud Ministerial cheers.)
Sir J. SHELLEY withdrew his amendment, and the
Bill was read a second time.
CHANCERY AMENDMENT BILL.
This Bid was read ft third time awl plssed.
MR. CARDWELL'S RESOLUTION.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Lord GODERICH then resumed the adjourned de-
bate, remarking that in the present position of the ques-

, -
tion it was of the utmost importance to keep clearly in
view the issue raised. He hoped also that the house
would not shrink from expressing an opinion on the re-
solution. The right hon. gentleman the Attorney-
General for Ireland and others, had complained that the

"P.S.—I have submitted this letter to Lord Ellen-
borough,_ who says that he thinks what I have written to
you is quite correct."
With Lord Granville's letter is a letter from Lord El.
lenborough, which merely says :
"My dear Lord Granville.—l think that what you have
said to Lord Palmerston is quite correct.
" Yours very sincerely, " ELLENBOROUGH."
(Cheers.) Sir, I thought it reasonable, as so much in.
terest has been excited in this house with regard to these
explanations, to trespass on the indulgence of the house,
and' hope that the house will think that I have only per-
formed my duty in making the statement. (Cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT.—As I trust that this unpleasant sub-
ject will not again occupy the attention of the house, I
wish to put a question to the noble lord. We have heard
to-night of two letters having been received by the late
President of the Board of Control. Before to-night we
have had no statement that there was more than one.
(Hear, hear.) It bas been stated that for 10 weeks
there was no communication of a direct character from
Lord Canning to the Board of Control under the late
President. DJ I understand the noble lord to tea the
house that these two letters, received by the right hen.
gentleman tl4e late President of the Beard of Control,
are all the letters that Lord Canning wrote, either to
him or to the Prima Minister, during those 10 weeks,
referriug to public affairs in India ? If the noble lord or
the right hon. gentleman had been frank enough to have
stated the exact circumstances, we should have avoided
very much of this painful digcussion.
Lord PAL M ERSTON —The hon. gentleman was pro-
bably not in tl.e house a few days ago, when I gave an
answer to a question on this eutject. (Liter, hear.) That
answer was so far incorrect, that I said my right hon.
friend had received three letters from Lord Canning,
when in point of fact he had received four. The dates
were February sth ; February 20th, an extract from
which I have read to the house; March 6th, an extract
from which I have also read ; and a short letter on the
17th of March, containing a communication on a mili-
tary point, whioh my right hon. friend sent to the Duke
of Cambridge, who said he had received the same infor-
mation from Sir Colin Campbell. (Cheers.)
Sir H. RAW LINSON—I wish to ask the ChancAlor
of the Exchequer whei her he would have any objection
to lay upon the table the despatches received to-day from
Lord Canning relative to the Dude proclamation, so that
they may be printed and in the hands of members to-
morrow' before the adjourned debate is resumed. (near.)
Tn. CHANCELLOR' of the EXCHEQUER— It
they are to be printed, they shall be presented to the
house in time for the debate to-morrow. I will give a
more precise answer in the course of the evening.
COUNTY FRANCHISE BILL.

Mr. L. KING postponed the motion for the second
reading of this bill until Thursday, June 2.
COMMON LAW PROCEDURE ACT AMEND-
' MENT BILL.

resolution di.l not cull on the house to express an

opinion on Lord Cowling's proclamation at the same
time that it deprecated the despatch of Lord Ellen-
borough. He (Lord G)dericti) thought that despatch
unjustifiable, because it passed an hosrile opinion on the
proolamation in the absenc3 of sufficient information.
When the papers recently adverted to were prottuced,

Mr. ATHERTON moved the second reading of this
bill.

• THE OUDE DESPATCHES.

that explanation would be forthcoming. He Utterly de-

pled that the proclamation necessarily meant a
whole-
sale confiscation of property in Gude. Such sweeping
confi,cation would be utterly opposed to Lord Canning's
previous policy. The taunt that this proclamation had
emanated from the late Government had been given up,
recalled. (Hear, hear, from the Liberal benches.) The
best answer to the other taunt, that the proclamation
was the offspring of Lord Canning's advisers on the spot,
was the circumstance that the persons who were to

carry out the proclamatio❑ were the secretary to the
Government, Mr. Eclinonstoce, who was with the Go-
vernor-General at Allahabad, and Mr. Montgomery ;

the previous acts of both of whom had shown that they
fullyrec .gnised the rights of that village community.

The hon. baronet the nienibr for Tam worth had spoken
of the difference between the proclamations of Lord Can-
ning and those of Lord D Tne only differense
between the two was, that Lord Dslhon-ie's proclatna-

tions were prospective, and cuiternplated confi4cation in
else rebellion should break out, whereas Lord Canning's

proposed to deal with a rebellion actually raging. The
reasonable prima finis interpretation to be placed on the

proclamation wa; that off,:reCl by the right non. bart. the
member for Hahill; namely, that Lord Canning wa4 pro-

_ .
posing to continue the course he was pursuing, but in
which he was interrupted by the mutiny, and had taken

advantage of the events which hal since occurred to en-

able him to deal with the usurped rights of the Talook-
dare (Hear, hear.) The real question fur decision, how-
ever, was the despatch written by Lord Ed.nborough.
Before approaching the melts- of that quilstlori,'lhe
noble lord replied to some of the remarks ehich had
f•dlen in the previous debate from the Attorney-General
for Ireland, denying that the late President of the Board
~f Control (Mr. V. Smith) bad spoken the word im-
puted to him by the bon, and learned gentleman. lithe
despatch was intended to bo secret, he sliced whether
the Government really believed the Governor General

In reply to Viscount EBRINGTON,
General PEEL said that the report referred to in the
first part of the question would be ready on Monday
next, and it should be immediately after laid on the
table of the house. Diff-rent cooking apparatus had
been tried, aad as sown as the reports on them were sent
in they should also be produced. It was the intention
of her Majesty's Government as soon as a plan was
finally agreed upon to have it adopted in all new bar-
racks, and means would be taken for providing for other
means of cooking in the old barracks otherwise than by
(Cheers.)
CIVIL SERVICE SUPERANNUATIONS.

intended a general coofi-cation of the property of the
people of India ? If such was the opinio❑ of the Govern-
ment, they had committed a grave error in not recalling
him. (Hear, hear, from the Conservatives.) On the
contrary, they had not recalled 1.,-)rd Canning, but had
left the entire responsibility of governing India upon

his shoulders. The Government should either have re-
called the Governor-General, or have distinctly told him
that his proclamation might bear a sinister construction,
and that he was to continue in the course of mercy and
toleration which had been the characteristic of his pa,t
policy. (Hear.) It would have been far better if the
Government had followed the example of the late Sir R.

Peelon a kindred OCCWIOII, in proposing the course for
the house to take in connection with a f miler proclama-
tion of Lord Ellenborough. (Haar, hear.) The question
of
were intended, as undoubtedly
tuned to be the case,
the pduebslpicaattcilionwahsahl beenighlyobgjievc7lioneul), but if publication
a able. Tae first part of
the despatch referred to the conduct of Lord Canning,
and the second to the annexation of Oude. What would
the natives of India think of the disavowal by the Home
Government of the whole of Lord Canning's policy with
regard to Oede ? What would the army of India, of
winch the Governor-General was the head, think of such
a disavowal I But there was another aspect of the ques-
tion, which vitally affected the proceedings f the Go-
vernor-General. It was well known that one of the
pieohlicLy'ro'fl Chains ionugn thrlydi neon °ive In )drni
greatest
the
encroaching
h•
a.
He had overcome that obstacle, but his opponents would
gain fresh courage when they heard that his policy, on
an important point, bad been disavowed by the British
Governmeut. (Chesre.) The Oude paragraphs in the de-
spatch were in the last degree reprehensible, for by them
the natives of that country were told that their land was
obtained by us by fraud, that the rule of their sovereign
was not open to the censure which had been !sassed on
it. A member of the present Government had stated be-
fore taking office that Oada ought to be given back
again to its old rulers. (attar.) Was that his opinion
still Was that the opinion of the collective Govern-
ment I The noble lord the member for London had well
remarked that if one Government were to continue dis-
avowing the acts of its predecesasr in Tudia, calamity
must befall our rule. This was a matter of immense gra-
vity which it was impossible to aggravate, and if they
wished to defend an empire which their anceetore and
contemporaries had conquered, they ought to pronounce

their censure on such dangerous doctrines as were con-
tained in the proclamation and the despatch. He might
almost stop there, for he was content to east the vote he
was going to give on the peragrephs of this despetch,
but he found the motion was to be net by an amendment
which was to be supportee by the Gov ei nment (Cheers.)
Tne amendment was harmless enough in itself. It ex-
pressed a great deal of truth which most could admit,
but it also partook of the metteneT the Lords, when the
Lord Ceencel,or met a similar vote of censure by the
previous question. (Hear, hear.) The amendment stated
that the policy of Lord Canning in Dude, and the pro-
clamation referred to, was worthy cf the confidence and
approbation of tho House of Commons, though they had
not sufficient information on which to form an opinion
(elpeers)—notwithstanding it was te the interest of the
Government to give all the information they possessed
with reference, to it, whether it told is favour or against
them. The Government, however, had pronounced a
censure upon Lord Canning's policy without informs-
tion, and they were going to get rid sf a direct censure
on their conduct by adopting an implied one; but be
thought the house would not arrive atsnch an important
conclusion. (Hear, hear.) Hon. mer4ere on the Minis-
terial side of the house said the real questioa, a 3 raised
by the right hon. gentleman the member for Oxford,
was between pursuing a policy of clemency and a policy
of cruelty. kffear, hear, and cheers.) Ile was not there
to defend a revengeful p eicy or a tyrannical or cruel
rule, but to ask the house to deal fairlyand justly to the
man who, in a tremendous crisis, and in the midst of the
greatest dangers and alarm, had almost alone
amongst his countrymen in India resisted the cry of
blood. (Loud cheers.) L ord Canning had thrown the
whole weight of his influence and aathority against
those who had clamoured fur indiscrimirate justice, and
be (Lord Goderich) was here to defend e clemency Can-
ning," a name which ho (Lord Goderich) looked upon as
conveying the highest pen Dee title of botour upon Lord
Canning. (Cheers.) But what did eertlemen on the
Ministerial side of the house mean when they spoke of a
revengeful pacy 1 He had heard maae suggestions as
to the ceurse teat ought to be pursued towards the re-
bels and mutineers. It bad been said teat every man
taken in areas againstus ought to be put tr death, except
a few who should be reserved for a worse punishment
than that, and feat he had reason to thick was the po-
licy gentlemen on the other silts of the hose approved.
(Opposition eheete and `cries of "no, no, from the Mi-
nisterial benches ) if hon. ineurbere on the Ministerial
side of the house disapproved a this< polio", he refereed
them to a, recent speech of Lord Derby's in another
place, in which that noble lord had laid dawn that cer-
tain of the Indian rebels should be reserve( for a worse
punishment than death—viz., by keeping ',hem in con-
finement, and make them drag out an existence less pre-
ferable than death. (Hear, hear.) Tnat might be the
ministerial policy, but it certainly was not the policy of
the Opposition.r (Rear.) To that they opposed Lard
Canning 's policy contained in her orders issued in July,
and asked that due consideration for him which the ext.
geocies of tee case demanded. They vitro, however,
called upon to deckle a question of greater importance
than the interest of an individual, viz., whether they
should appreve of, or condemn the course that had been
taken by the G vernment in censuring the Govereor-
General in the midst of a [Ante of things existing in India
that was likely to endanger the safety of that empire,
and inevitably multiply the =spied] difficulties the Go-
yernor-Generel had to encounter, and leave him to meet
them with his hands weakened. (Hear.). The course the
Government had pursued led inevitably to the conclu-
sion that her Meje.teee Government were ready to
reverse the arrangement whinh had become a part of the
policy of that countr
settled Y. and abandon provinces of
our Indian empire which, as Ministers of the Crown it
was their duty to retain. (Rear.) He had heard it
said on the other side of the house that every man taken
in arms against us in India ought to be put to death, or
reserved for a worse fate (murmurs). Was that their
policy, or was it not (nn,
no.) They disapproved of
then,it, ?
" in every stiles," (cheery, and counter cheers).
He himself had heard a noble lord in another place deli-
berately reeernmendthat
policy,and a right hon. and
learned gentlemen in that hothe (no, no, and "read").
Well, be would read the remarks of the noble lord to
whom he referred. They were as foflews
"But for every ono who fought against us, or who
treacherously joined the ranks of our opponents, whether
soldiers or not—for them, if taken in arms against us, there
is but one righteous penalty, and that is death (cheers
from the ministerial benches). But for those miscreants,
who perpetrated upon the booties of our women and chil-
dren atrocities and horrors over which human nature
sickens, and the veil of decenoy must be drawn, who have
been guilty of unimaginable atrocities against human
nature—for them death is too slight a ptinishment.
What punishment,
what terror, can death inflict upon
them, when one man who. was about to be blown from
a cannon's mouth—behoving that a short and sudden
death would put an end to hie sufferings—tells you that
he dies rejoicing in this, that with his own hand he
slaughtered three or four of Your countrymen and country-
women. For such men death is no punishment. They
should have the heavier doom inflicted upon them of
protracted life, of life with the brand of Cain upon their
brow, denoting their offence, lest any man slay them.
Severe, degrading, painful corporeal punishment should be
their lot. Hopeless, constant slavery should be their fate.
Condemned to the most degrading occupations, be they
Brahmins of the highest caste they should be the slaves of
the lowest pariah; and in chains and in hopeless bondage
they should drag out an existence to which death itself
would be a relief they should vainly pray for—a terror to
those who may be tempted to share in their guilt —an
object of contemptuous execration to those whose feelings
in the tenderest points they have outraged."
(Cries of "Hear, beer," from all sides Of the house )
That was the pr 1 cv r commended by the Earl of Derby.
An Hon. MEMI3E ft—Yes, for mutineers. (Cheers.)
Lord GODERICII—The noble lord (the Earl of

Sir J. V. SHELLEY wished to ask the Chancellor
of the Exchequer whether he would undoubtedly lay the
despatches from India upon the tah!e to-night. (Cries
of "Order.")
The SPEAKER intimated that the hon. gentleman
was not in order in putting a question unless it were
relevant to the bill before the house.
Sir J. V. SHELLEY. moved the adjournment of
the debate, in order to put himself in order. It was im•
portant to understand whether these papers were to be
immediately laid before the house, or whether there was
any reason why they should not be in the hands of
members.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—I
theug;ot that my answer was sufficiently clear. (Hear.)
The hon. gentleman must remember that when papers
of importance are sent home and received there are
many e!rcumstaaces which a Minister mast consider be-
fore he can promise to place them on the table. (Cheers.)
He has to consider not only the public interests, but the
feelings of private individuals and their friends. All that
I undertook was, that if they were presented to Parlia-
ment—a nd on that point I did not give an opinion—l
would take care that they were presented in time to be
in the hands of members to-morrow morning. (Cheers.)

Lord J. RUSSELL—I cannot but think that the
question of my hon. friend was perfectly reasonable,
because it is understood that papers have been received
in tbis country, some of which contain observations
against the proclamation issued by Lord Canning, and
others contain his own views on that proclamation.
There may be remarks affecting individuals' and state-
ments that ought not to be published, but Ido not con-
ceive, while we are still carrying on a great debate in
which it is admitted that we are not in possession of the
grounds on which the Governor-General acted, that it
would be right for the Government totally and entirely
to refuse the publication of those papers. (Cheers.) I
think that whatever may be the modifications which the
right bon. gentleman may make, he cannot but agree to
the production of the papers which ought to be in ours
possession.
Mr. VANSITTART asked whether there were any
other letters received from Lord Canning relative to the
Oude proclamation before those mentioned by the noble
lord.
Lord PALMERSTON—I have stated that there
were
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY was sure the noble lord (J.

In reply to Sir J. ELPHINSTONE,
Mr. HAMILTON, in the temporary absence of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, said that a measure was
being prepared on this subject, and he hoped it would
be introduced shortly after the Whitsun holidays.
Mr. GLADSTONE asked if the recommendation for
the adjustment of salaries would be embodied in the
proposed bill, or form the subject of a separate one.
Mr. HAMILTON declined to state the purport of
any portion of the proposed measure.
HARBOURS OF REFUGE.

Mr. MACARTNEY asked the chairman of the
Harbour of Refuge Committee (the member for Devon-
pork), what had caused the delay in furnishing the draft
resolutions, as promised by him to the committee at
their last meeting on the 19th day of April ; and whether
there was any probability of their being delivered to the
several members previous to the recess.
Mr. WILSON said the reason of the delay arose
from the importance of the interests involved. He hoped
to have the draft ready in a fe .v days.
NEW ZEALAND.
In reply to Lord A. CIICTROHILL,
Lord STANLEY said the governor of New Zealand
had no power to repeal an act of the Legislature of that
colony. A proclamation was issued some time ago,
which imposed severe restrictions on the sale of wines ;
but it had been found to increase the evils of the
contraband trade, without being effective for the pur-
poses intended ; and recently the governcr of New Zea-
land had issued another proclamation, removing some
of the restrictions, subject to the approbation of the
Government.
THE 21sT REGIMENT OF BOMBAY NATIVE
INFANTRY.
Mr. DILLWYN asked the Secretary to the Board of
Control whether any account had been received by the
Board relative to the suppression of the mutiny and
the disarming of the 21st regiment of Bombay Native
Infantry at Kurrachep, in September, 1857.
Mr. H. BAILLIE said it was quite true her Ma-
jesty's Government had received intelligence of the
mutiny referred to, and the disarming of the 21st Regt.
of Bombay Native Infantry at Kurrachee, and he was
at a loss to know how it happened that it did not appear
in the Gazette. In justice to the officers, whose merito-
rious conduct had been called to the attention of the
Commander• n-Chief in India, he (Mr. Baillis) read a
letter from the Adjutant• General to Sir Celia Campbell.
OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON— LAW
REFORM.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave notice that be
should, on the 3d of June, ask for leave to intro-
duce a bill for consolidating the law relating to
offences against the person, and also six other
bills for consolidating certain acts of parliament. The
learned Attorney-General also gave notice of a series of
other bills he intended to introduce for consolidating
the law.
LORD CANNING'S PRIVATE CORRESPON-
DENCE.

Lord PALISERSTON—I have to ask the indulgence
of the house for a few moments while I make a state-
ment which, I think, carries out a wish expressed by the
house on a former occasion. The house was anxious to
become acquainted with certain passages in Lord Can-
ning's letter to roy right hon. friend the late President of

Russell) would not be an advocate for laying papers on
the table without due consideration. The houee had only
.jut learnt a lesson nn that subject. (A. laugh.) The
Chancellor of the Exchequer would neglect a public
duty if he did not take cars that these papers were not
laid without due consideration.

Lord J. RUSSELL—I did not say that doe conside-
ration ought not to be used. I only meant to Fay that
the papers oueht not to be totally refused. (Hear.)
Mr. SCOTT said, that the despatches received by the
right hon. gentleman (llr. V. Smith) related to the pre-
sent subject of debate. They appeared to be a continua-
tion of other despatches that had previou-ly arrived, and
it was, therefore, only fair to the house teat the noble
lord (Palmerston) and the right bon. gentlemen (dr. V.
Smith) should give the house those parts of these letters
that related, not to private, but to public affairs, so that
they might be laid on the taqe at the same time as the
despatches of the Governor-General just received.
Lord PALMERSTON said that if he received any
despatches he should be very happy to produce them.
(" Oh !")
Mr. MILES said that the noble lord the member for
the City of London had entirely misunderstood the an
wets' of hie right hon. friend (Mr. Disraeli). It seemed
perfectly clear that a Minister of the Crown would not
promise to lay them i:nmediat• ly before the house.
(Hear.) His right hon. friend said that if he could pro-
duce them they should be in the hands of members to-
morrow morning. (Bear, hear.)
Mr. AYRTON wished to point out the extraordinary
course which was being pressed upon the government.
The motion was made to exclude from consideration the
cause and the consequences of the proclamation ; but
now there was a wend _rf el desire to have both the cause
and the ceusequencee considered. (Hear, hear.) If the
mover of the resolution wished to go into those ques-
tions he should do so honestly, by amending his motion.
(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Why not ask for
all papers, and demand either the approval or condom-
naion of the proclamation , (Hear.) Let the right hon.
• gentleman take that course or abide by that into which
1
' e had fallen—viz., of considering the despatch apart
Boon the question which it raised. Though it might be-
come the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Cardwell) to abide

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 21, 1858.

Derby) said for all who had joined in the mutiny. I away all proprietary rights in the kingdom of Oade,
An Hon. MEMBER (from the Radical benches) havetitheteeo-tiebldumwithbi e these
laud b
aren
cultivatorsu l results—that
the bbu
at therevte
hr
etvislleol
niblte7n(fh leobanoid) —n
l iyaod
c"n-
Treacherouslyd joined. (Hear, and cheer-.) - n
•
labned
divided ofOude
into, and
tw of
o
Lord GODERICH—That might be the policy of hon,
members on the Ministerial side of the house. It was
that the whole produce of the i
not that of the OppositiOn. (Cries of "Hear, hear.) He the ndustry of its _people, will
should conclude by saying that he would not wriggle most unequal -port-iane ; the largeeshare will go to the
out of the question that was fairly before the house by
No per
w thisdayw
is thei
l l
Government in the shape of tax, and the Brim lar
vot ng for the amendment of the hon. member for Swan-
shoatrc,,tbet,,hoinchl
ti
vwjol
rboef
the
e s handfuleil. (aoefa
(Hice
ear.)
sea, and he should therefore support the resolution of
a
his right hon. friend the member' for Oxford. (Great Indian system. It is the. grand theory of the civilians
cheering from the Opposition.) under whose advice I very much fear Lord Canning has
unfortunately acted ; and you will find in many parts of
Mr. BRIGHT—I am afraid that lam hardly able to India, especially in the Presidency of Madras, that the
take part in this discussion in a manner becoming the population consists entirely of these humble cnitivatore,
magnitude of the question, or in any degree in accord- tied that the Government stands over them with a
ante with the anxiety I have long felt with regard to screw, which is perpetually turned, leaving the handful
Indian affairs. I happen, however, unfortunately and
of rice a day to the ryot, and transferring all the rest cf
theproduce of the sod into the exchequer of the
accidentally to have been mixed up with this matter, and I India East
Company. Now, I believe that the proclamation
my name has been frequently referred to in the course of sanctions this policy, and I believe further, that the re-
the debates in this and in the other House of Parliament, I solution which the right hon. gentleman asks the house
and lam therefore unwilling to sit still and vote without to adopt sanctions that proclamation—(hear)—that
it
expressing my opinion to the house. (Hear.) In the first iwnifidn,bneeseo in Id
aasn dI tbhealtievwehaittevweirllmbaey boe the
the
place I may, perhaps, be allowed to say that almost proclamation itself, the statement that this, the highest
everything which has been said or imagined with regard court of appeal, has pronounced in favour of Lord Can-
to any part whiclel have bad in bringing on this discus- fling's policy aill be one of the most unfortunate deela-
sion has been altogether erroneous and without any rations that ever went from the Government of India to
the people of that country. (Cheers.) Let me, then,
foundation whatever. (Rear, hear.) There was no for one minute—and it shall be only for one minute—
arrangement whatever between the hon. gentleman the draw the attention of the house to our pecuniary deal-
Secretary to the Board of Control and myself with re- ings with Oude. A friend of mine has extracted from a
gard to the question which I thought it my duty to put book on this subject two or three facts which, as we are
to the Government on the subject of Lord Canning's considering t e policy of England towards this afflicted
proclamation. I bad some time before spoken to the hon. c }untry, I ehoul i like to read to the house. It is stated
gentleman on the subject, because I bad been informed that under the government of Warren Hastings up to
by Mr. Dickinson, a gentleman who has an extensive the arrival of Lord Cornwallis, in 1786, the Best India
correspondence with India, that some proclamation of Company obtained from the King of Oude, and therefore
this character was in preparation and was about to be from the industry of the people of Oude, the sum of
issued, and when I spoke to the hon. gentleman upon 9,252,0001. Under Lord Cornwallis they received
the subject he told me that he llad no information with 4,290,000/. ; under Lord Teignmouth, 1,280,0001. ; and
regard to it, and I told him then that if anything of the under Lord Wellesley, 10,358,0001. This, I ought to
siert took place I should put a question to the Govern- say, includes the acquisition of the Doab in 1801, in
ment on the subject. That conversation took place three lieu of a subsidy, the revenue of that district being
weeks before I put the question which I did put to the 1,352,000/. Comitig down to 1814, there was in
hon. gentleman, and when I read the proclamation in that year a loan of a million, in 1815 a loan of a
the newspapers I came down to the house, not having million, in 1816 a loan of a million, in 1825 a loan
seen the hon. gentleman in the meantime.. (Hear.) On of a million, in 1826 a loan of a million, in 1829,
my way down I met my hon. friend the member for 600,0001., and in 1838, 1,700,000/. Some of them are
Stookport, and he told me that, having read the procla- loans, and in one case the loan was repaid by the ce.sion
mation in the newspaper, and knowing my intentions of a portion of territory, which the Company in a very
upon the subject, he had t if the hon. gentleman the few years, and under an excuse which I should net like
Secretary to tkie Board of Control that be thought that to justify, reannexed, and therefore the debt was virtu-
in all probability I would put a question to him upon ally never. repaid. The total of all these sums is
the subject. 'I came down to the house and put my 31,50330001., to addition to which the people of Oade
question, and the answer which I received is before the base paid va.t amounts in salaries, pensions, and email-
house and btfore the country, and I confess that I did manta of every kind to the Company's servants in the
not think that we were going to lose a week from the employment of the Government of Oade. Now, I am
di-cession of the Indian r-solutions on aec 'ant of that not going further into details, but I silty that the history
q leetion. (Rear.) As regard the question before the of eur connexion with the country whose interests we
house I should have been content to leave it as it was are now discussing is of such a nature that• it oeght, to
when the hon. area learned Selicitor-General eat down— wake us pause before we consent to any measure which
;hall fill up the cup of h,jury which we have presented
(near) —and I think that then the house might very well
have come to a vote, (Hear.) I could not but coin- to the lips of the people. (Caters.) Two years ago we
pare the speech of the how and learned gentleman with oeposed the sovereign of Owie. Everything that ne had
that of tbe right hon. gentleman the member for Oxford. was seized ; much of it was sold. Indignity and wrong
(Loud cries of "Hear.") I thought that the right hoc- were offered to his family, as the governors of that
curable member for Oxford tacked together a great kingdom. I have heard some hon. gentlemen speaking
many very small matters in an attempt to make up from this side endeavour to persuade the house that
some great case, and it appeared to the that he ad- this confiscation policy only intended that we should
dressed the house in a manner which indicated receive the taxes of Oude (hear, hear) ; but that is a
tbat he himself was not perfectly satisfied with the delusion ; it is a statement so ab urd that lam anto•
course which be was pursuing—(loud cries of " Hear, aished that even hon. members who support this w-
hew ")—for I think that if '''ha had been stimulated tion should offer it to the house. (A laugh.) In 1856,
by the sense that he was undertaking a groat public duty when you dethroned the King of Oude, you stepped
he would have delivered a more lively and impressive into his place, you becatae the recipients of all legit:-
speech. (Rear, and a laugh.) Now, the speech of the mate national taxes ; and now, havlng seized the
hon. and learned Solicitor-General—and I think that 500,000/ a-year, the revenue of that country, under a
every gentleman who beard it will agree with me—was solemn treaty con-aining a clause that if there was any
closely logical and appeared to exhaust the arguments surplus revenue it should be put to the credit of the
which might be used; and I have nut spoken to any one kingdom of Oude, end having, contrary to the treaty,
who will not admit that speech was a complete answer applied that surplus to the general purposes of India,
to all that is at all serious in the charge now brought you descend below the rank of the king, and to every
against the Government. (Cheers.) The motion now be• tatookdar, to every landowner large or small, to every
fore the house is important considered in two aspects— man who has a proprietary right in the soil, to every
in the Arra place, as affecting the interests of party at man but the smallest, the humblest capitalist who culto
horns—which some persons, perhape, might think the sates it—to all these you say, in language which cannot
most important; and, in the second place, as to the be mistaken, "Come down from the independence and
effect which will be produced upon the minds of the pen. dignity you have hitherto et jeyed. As we have done
pie of India by this discussion and the division about to in other provinces in India we shall do her,: Two.
take place. Now, let us beer in mind that the great bulk fifths of you have not been mixed up iu this war,
of the native princes, whether, under or not. subject to but in this general confiscation innocent must
English rule, are not very likely to correctly understand suffer with the guilty, for such is the fortune of
what is the result of any cabal or political conspiracy. war, and such is the misfortune which we are about to
(Clear.) They knew nothing of Individuals here, and inflict upon you." (Cheers.) If this be not a procla-na-
those "loud cheers" which in a debate excite us so much tion of unheard of severity, how comes it that so many
here are nothing whatever to them. The question which Persons have protested against it? Does any man in
they will ask will be, what is the opinion of the Parties the world believe that the noble lord the member for the
went of England with regard to the policy announced the West Riding understands this proclamation better
than the high military authorities whose opinions have
in the proclamation of Lord Canning—(oheers)—and I
complain, and I think the house has a right to complain been quoted ? (Cheers.) Does he suppose that the Hon o
that the resolution of the right hon. gentleman carefully of Commons veal take his authority upon a matter of
avoids that question. (Rear, hear) The noble lord the this kind before that of the united press of India? (Cries
member for the West Riding says that he does not want of Oh, oh 1 and cheers.) I dare eay hon. members have
to meet the matter by a side wind or a side blow, but nut read anything in the newspapers of India upon the
that he wishes to deal with it in a direct mermen Now, subject. Some of them applaud the proclamation be-
what can be lees direct than the resolution itself 1 cause, they say, that at one fell swoop it does that
(Rear, hear.) And that it is so has been proved by the which has taken us 20 years to do in other districts—
fact that through the whole course of the debate it destroys every man who can influence the people of
every a rime@ argument which has been used, every the country against the British rule. Others say that it
serious feeling which has been tipressed, has had re- is a proclamation of such a character that it must cause
femme° to the character and nature of the proelanna- war to the knife against the English name in Oude, acd
tion, and not to those little matters which have been that the Governor-General who issued such a document
mixed up with this great question. (Hear.) No one, ought to have been prepared with a new army at his
I believe, defends the prorearnation. (Hear.) All that back in order to enforce it. (Hear, hear ) The right
has been done is to endeavour to show that it was not hon. gentleman the Attorney-General for Ireland re-
rightly understood by those who censured it as announ. ferred to what was said two or three weeks ago by the
cling a policy of confiscation. In.fact we are asked to him and learned member for Devonport (Sir E. Perr}).
believe that it means something which it does not, say, I will call the house to witness whether, when, in an-
and that it does not mean that which in the English ewer to my question which brought out this desparath,
language it distinctly states. (Haan) The right hon. the Ciiaieestier of the Exchequer said that with reepec;
gentleman asks the house to do that which appears to to the policy of confiscation—for that is the only thing
be an absolute impossibility, for he wants us to con- in tee proclamation about which there is any dispute—
demn the censure without expressing any opinion as to the Government disavowed it in every sense,—l call the
the policy of the proclamation. Now, I do not believe Louse to witness whether every gentleman present dawn
that the right hon. gentleman, although he has unfortu. here (below the gangway) did not cheer that sentiment.
stately been led into this movement—(loud cheers)— (Cheers ) Why, of course, every men cheered it. They
wishes the house to pronounce an opinion in favour of would nut be men, they would not be Englishmen, they
the principle of confiscation. (Renewed cheers.) No wools not he English legislators, if they not done so.
man, I believe, would wish us to pronounce that opinion Teey would be men who had never beard what was just
—(near)—but if we pronounce now a decision against anti right if, at the very instant they heard the de-
that censure, I ask any man whether it is poseibie that claration of the Government, every instinct within
the people of India can form any other opinion than them did not compel them to an enthusiastic assent.
that the House of Commons is favourable to tee prin. (Hear, hear.) It was only when the fatal influence of
ciple of the proclamation (Rear, hear.) With regard party—(theirs)—and the arts that party knows how to
to the publication cf their censure by the Government, employ—(renewed cheerine)—were put in motion that
I can only say that it is remarkable how men can turn hon. gentlemen began to discover that there was some-
round upon that which they themselves formerly pro- thing serious and dangerous in this memorable despatch.
fessed. Upon this side of the house hon. gentlemen have Now, I would ask the house—because that is the gees-
ofteu complained that the secrecy of the-Foreign-office tien—are we prepared to sanction tee policy of that
and of other departments has been the cause of the despatch f lam sorry that it did not occur to me until •
greatest possible mischief—(hear)—and will they now after the amendment now before the house was proposed,
say that the publication of their censure by the Govern- or I would have moved an amend :rent expressly on
went was a very high crime and misdemeanour? (Hear.' that point; because I feel—l speak it without the
Wby, surely, hon. gentlemen below the gangway upon slightest reference to the influence it way have on any
this side of the house ought to regard it with some de- party in this house—that it is of the very highest cm-
grey of sympathy as leaning rather to the side of virtue. sequence tbat whatever decision we came to shall be in
(Hear.) Now, with regard to the language of the de- capable of any misinterpretation when it arrives in
spatch, why any Government or any Minister might be India. We have been treated to a good deal of eloquence
censured if we chose to take up every word of every de- upon the manner of the despatch, and I must say a word
spatch. (Hear.) Some men are more strongly lin- or two upon that point. Tne noble lord the member for
pressed than others, and write with stronger feeling., Land.tn has fallen into the (-riser committed by mo-t of
and 1 for nay own part like persons to write and speak the speakers in favour if the reeolution—the error
in a way that they can be understood. (Laughter namely, of treating some of the outside circumstances of
and hear, hear.) In my opinion the motion the case as if they were the case itself. (Rear.) He
before the House is a disingenuous attempt to lead the did not &tate that there was a single word in the de-
House into a very unfortunate dilemma, and I think spatch which was not true—(hear, hear) —although he
that no judicial mind will deny that by voting for the did express what I thought was a rather immoral eenti•
resolu ion we are acknowledging the policy of the pro- went for so eminent a statesman. (Alaugh.) Toe until.
clemation—(Ns, no, and bear. hear)—and that is a step lord told us that after a great crime had been committed
which will produce an effect which may be very dan- men in office were never to let it be known or sueptcied
gerous in the winds of the population of India. (Hear.) that they thought it was a crime. (Cheers.)
I now came to the real question, namely, the policy of LordJ. RUSSELL —no hon. gentleman is mistaken;
confiscation as announced in the proclamation. (No, I never said anything of the kind.
no, and hear.) There are certain, things upon which I Mr. BRIGHT—I did not hear the noble lord, but I
think we are all agreed, and one of them is that the read his speech, and I can say positively that many
people of Oude are enemies, but they are not rebels. friends of mine, not members of this house, have come to
(No, no, and hearohear.) No, no I Why, I thought the same unfortunate conclusion' as myself. The noble
that I understoood that those persona who blame Lord lord, however, did not say what I have just told the
Ellenborough are of opinion that be would not have house, but what he did say was, that there was a great
been deserving of blame if he had written a despatch deal of sarcasm and invective in the despatch, and he
like that of the Court of Directors. (Rear, hear.) read a passage to show that such was the case. Bat
Well, in that very despatch the principle is laid down the fact is a good deal depends upon the reading. (Hear,
that the people of Oude are not rebels and ought not to hear.) I could read a despatch of the noble lord in
be treated as rebels, but enemies ; and if so, then we such a manner as to astonish tbe house with its
have no right to treat them otherwise than the law of concealed irony and sarcasm. (Laughter) The noble
nations indicates. Will the house accept that proposi- lord, if I ana not mistaken, told the house that if
tion ? (No, no, and hear. hear.) Very well, hon. gen- the despatch were a proper despatch to be sent out to
tlemen who will not accept it cannot be included by the India Lord Canning was not fit to occupy the meanest
noble lord the member for West Riding in the list of official situation. Now, Indian despatches have never
those in favour of the policy of clemency and concilia. been very gentle. I have read over and over again in
tion. (Loud cries of hear, hear.) I am certain that Mill's filisiory despatches sent out by the President of
the people of England will accept that definition—(hear, the Board of Control and the Court of Directors, and I
bear)—l am certain that civilised Europe will accept it ; have often thought that they were written in a tone
and lam equally certain that history, which will record rather, more authoritative and dictatorial than I should
this debate, will accept it as one which no man claiming myself be disposed to use or pleased to receive. (Hear.)
to be a statesman, a moralist, or a Christian can pos- The explanation is obvious. In old times the magnates
sibly escape. I now come, and ou that point I will be sitting in Leadeohall-street were writing, not to Lord
as brief as possible—to the question, what is the mean- Canning or men of that altitude, but to merchants and
ing of confiscating the proprietary rights in the soil? agents whom they bad sent to India, who were entirely
We have heard from a noble lord in another place, and dependent upon them, and to whom they could say just
it has been statel in the course of the debate here, that what they liked. The consequence is, that their des-
this sentence of confiscation refers only to certain un- patches for 100 years had l• chat acter for severity and
pleasant persons who are called talookdars, who are arrogance which I think might now well be dispensed
barons, and robber chiefs, and the oppressors of the with. (Hear, hear.) Still, that is a matter to be taken
people. (Hear, hear.) This ia by no means the first time into consideration when many of us are disposed not
that after a great wrong has been committed the wrong- only to pensure Lord Ellenborough, but to dethrone a
doer has attempted to injure by calumny those upon Government because a despatch has not been written
whom the wrong has been inflicted. (Rear, hear.) Lord precisely in those gentle terms which we think ought to
Shaftesbury, who is a sort of leader in this great war, be etnployed in a document addressed to the Governor-
has told the world that this proclamation refers only to General of 'mina
_(llear, hear.) But the noble lord
600 persons in the kingdom of Oude. Let us take hire the member for London ought to be very ferbeariug, in-
upon his own terms. The kingdom of Oude ha• astuuch as he lives in a house as brittle as that of any or
5,000,000 inhabitants, about one-sixth of the population us. (Cheers and laughter.) When the noble lord takes
of the United Kingdom. Applied to the United King- his pen in his band it is imporwitele to say what he will
dom in the same ratio, this population would affect send forth to the public. (Laughter.) I have known
3,600 persons. In both Houses of Parliament there are the noble lord to write an extraordinary letter, which he
probably 700 landed proprietors ; it would, therefore, be doubtless intended to be very proper in its phrase°i ogee
an edict of confiscation to landed proprietors in the to a bishop. (Renewed laughter ) lannot anxious to
United Kingdom equal to five times the number in both deal severely with the noble lord, bet whena gmightria,vhet
Rouses of Parliament. (Hear) An hon. gentleman say• statesman writes to so holy a man as a bishope one
and ie vec-
that lam all wrong in sly figures ; I shall be glad to hear at lenet txpect that be would avoid
his figures afterwards. (A laugh.) That is not the fact, tive. (Cheers and laughter.) Yet, in
but if it were, it would amount, not toa but to a I refer the noble lord hurled
his sarcasm and invective
f hie fellow-subjects, and
sarcasm
letter to which
a
complete social revolution in Oude; and living in a coma- against some 6,000,000 o
h
try where we have one great province, in Scotland, be- did great mischief to
tbe r peace of the united king-
ea and cheer e). I can tell the
longing to one member of the House of Lords, and 70 or dom at the time. (aeal.'l • which there was not
latter,
but an amazing amount of
80 miles of territory to another, and having Dukes of noble lord of anotherter,
Bedford and Dukes of Devonshire in England, surely much sarcasm or invective,
we ought to be a little careful that we do without insinuation of
GmoovsetrnuontlGdeeaneearnatl
ocfhalrnadcitac,r.a
plrtoewoans
e.
justice overturn the proprietary rights of the great
noteel 10,000 to the
wiles away, but to a nobleman filling one of
talookdars and landowners in India. (Hear, hear.)
But it is a fact which anybody may ascertain
by the most delicate and difficult offices connected oith the
referring to books which have been written, and
home government of the united kingdom. Upon that
witnesses who cannot be mistaken, that this
lo,ctctaesi oanntdh
tehe
rnobleeb lyorda transgressed
weak en further,ed ftohrei
handsn the
applies to more than 40,000 landowners in the king
most manner, when nobody asked him, he published the
documdoenmt
of
Oude. And what is meant by these proprietary
right: ? We must see what is the general course of and damaged the character of the noble viscount the
the policy of our Government in India. If you sweep member for Tiverton. (Cheers, and laughter.) There is