The Sun.
London, England, 1867-08-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAST EVENING.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at
five o'clock.

PETITION.

Lord OVERSTONE presented a petition against cer-
tain clauses in the bill uow before the house entitled the
North British Rail way Bill. "
The Duke of CLEVELAND said there were some cir-
cumstances which would render it imperatively necessary
that a preference should be given to a class of shareholders.
The noble duke then went into an elaborate statement as
to the arrangements which some companies were obliged
to make for the issue of fresh stock, and said that in many
cases it was the only means of saving the credit of the
companies. The House of Commons itself had sanctioned
•this course of procedure.
Tho Duke of MONTROSE said that on examining the
petition he found that it was signed by two persons only,
one of whom was an attorney and a very small
shareholder, and the other was likewise a very small
shareholder. The great body of the shareholders had
assented to raise money in the way which had been sug-
gested, and against which course this petition had been
presented, and he thought that as it was only signed by two
individuals it would be going too far to expect that the
house should act upon it. A railway in the position de-
scribed was like a stranded ship where the captain could
raise money for repairs by a prepreference mortgage.
After a few remarks from Lord REDESDALD and a reply
from Lord OVERSTONE, the bill was road a third time as
amended. - -
DOGS REGULATION. BILL (IRELAND) ACT.

This Bill was read a second time.
THE REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLES' BILL.
The adjourned debate on this bill in committee was then
resumed.

On clause 15 boing proposed,
Lord GREY moved as an amendment that at lino
14 the words 10,000 should be omitted, and the words
12,000 inserted, and at the end of the clause should be
added " the boroughs enumerated in the second part of
the schedule should only return members to Parliament
jointly in the manner described." He condemned the whole
system of redistribution which had been pr-posed. The right
hon. gentleman who represented the other house in Parlia-
ment had stated that he should be willing to
propose a more extensive redistribution of seats if
the house would support him. Now the amendment ho was
about to propose would not be adverse to the principles of
the bill, and ho could not conceive anything more inju-
rious than it would bo to neglect this great question of
redistribution.
The Earl of DERBY, who was received with cheers,
said—When I came down to the house this evening, 1 own
I was under some misapprehension that your lordships
might be induced to consent to the amendment of the noble
earl, which would have the effect of placing the Govern-
ment in a position of extremeembarrassment. (Hear, hear.)
But I confess that, having listened to the noble earl, and
heard the whole of his statement, I am considerably re-
lieved from this apprehension, for I cannot believe it is
possible your lordships will adopt a plan so crude and in-
complete, and that you will not, with the view of settling
the great question of Reform, enter upon a new Reform
Bill altogether, and introduce a number of new and untried

principles, which, if proposed at the beginning of May,
might be worthy of consideration, but which could only
lead to embarrassment at the present time. The principle
we went on was that disfranchisement should coincide
with enfranchisement, and, acting upon this, we thought
we should not deprive any Englishman of enfranchise-
ment, whether he lived in a small or large town, for the
purpose of enfranchising communities which had grown
up ofe late years. But the noble earl goes upon a totally
different principle, and proposes to partially disfranchise a
number of towns fer the sole reason that their population
is under 12,000. There might be some justification for
such a course if the noble earl could show that those towns
had been gradually decaying since 1832. But I find that
the contrary has been the case, and that every one of the
twelve towns has been steadily progressing. But the
noble earl, not merely content with his own plan of dis-
franchisement, has his eye also directed to the proposal of
the noble lord behind him for disfranchising all boroughs
with a population below 5,000 ; or, if that should not be
acceptable, for grouping them a proposal which had been
made last year without success. The noble lord's project
is this, that, without any reason which I cal uuderstand,
your lordships aro called upon to partially disfranchise
every borough having a population below 12,000. This
amendment goes further in the way of disfranchise-
ment than any bill which has ever been laid before Par-
liament, for none of theso have ever proposed to raise the
line of partial disfranchisement so high as boroughs with
a population of 12,000. What has happened this year ?
Her Majesty's Government propose to fix the limit of
partial disfranchisement at 7,000, but the House of Com-
mons, by an amendment moved on the Liberal side, fixed
the limit at 10,000. I have, therefore, the precedent of
former measures of Reform, the authority of noble lordg
opposite, and the sanction of the House of Commons
this year for saying that 10,000 is a fair and sufficient
basis to take as the limit below which a borough shall not
return more than ono member. It would certainly, I think,
require a strong case to convince your lordships that you
ought to go further in the way of disfranchisement than
the House of Commons. The noble earl proposes to do so
in order to adopt a principle entirely unknown to the con-
stitution and entirely novel, except in so far as it was
introduced on a limited scale the other evening by the
motion of my noble and learned friend (Lord Cairns)—
that of extending all over the country the representa-
tion of minorities by the creation of a largo number of
three-cornered constituencies. If I had been present the
other evening I should have had groat difficulty in ac-
ceding to the proposition of my noble and learned friend.
It may, however, be safely adopted on a small scale as an
experiment, but extended over the whole or a large por-
tion of the constituencies, I say nothing could be more
opposed to the constitution of the country, or could work
more partially and unequally, than the representation
of minorities carried out through three-cornered con-
stituencies. The noble lord asks us on the Ist of August
to consider a scheme of partial disfranchisement and
of enfranchisement, the details of which he has not
matured. lie sees the diffieultios of the task; he admits
that he has not sufficient information, but he asks Par-
liament and he invites the Government to take up his
crude and undigested scheme, to make sense of that
which is nonsense—(oh, oh)—at all events, which is no
scheme at all, for it does not give the slightest sketch of a
plan which could be carried into effect as it stands. If such
a proposition had come from the Government, it would
have been justly scouted ; and it passes my comprehension
how any noble earl could have thought that he should be
able to induce your lordships to send to the House of Com-
mons in the first or second week of August a new and un-
tried scheme for the redistribution of seats. If the noble
lord had brought forward this proposition three months
ago, I might have said that it was a very fair subject for
the house to take into its consideration, and I might have
asked for an adjournment in order to enable the noble earl
to lay before Parliament the details of his scheme. But
when at this period of tho session and this stage of the bill
he brings forward this proposition, I can only say that it
can only have ono effect, that of throwing everything into
confusion, and of putting an end to all that has hitherto
been done towards the settlement of a very difficult ques-
tion ; and 1 do not hesitate to say that if so crude an
amendment as that of the noble earl be carried, it will be
my duty to move that progress be reported, in order that I
may consult with my colleagues as to the course which we
shall adopt. (Murmurs.) I cannot undertake on the part
of the Government to accept an amendment which unsettles
everything and settles nothing. (Cheers.)
After a few words from Lord HARROWBY, strongly sup-
porting Lord Grey's amendment,
The Duke of ARGYLL said that the last remarks of
Lord Derby had placed the House of Lords in a most diffi-
cult and delicate position. Yet he trusted and was sure
that their lordships would not swerve from their duty.
They could not be
give
elinuett expectedutweroreaudtnlodete t
remain mi
eovxaeipnr silentes s
a n wheno opinion
nt
upro-
visions of abill like this were before them, and a bill like this
they could never expect to have at an earlier period of the
session than they had it now. It was wrong, therefore, for
Lord Derby to
up whatth ewba bill I virtuallyaltogether a
if their threatwh
en he said
lordships
the very matter which was brought before them for de-
cision. He, for one, quite agreed in the proposed plan of
grouping. It added permanence to the scheme, it would
much diminish bribery, and reduce the number of mem-
bers displaced from the counties to which they belonged.
The noble duke went on to read a table giving the propor-
tion of population to representation in the chief counties of
England, and concluded by asking the Government to re-
consider their scheme of Redistribution, when they might
depend upon the support of their lordships who sat on that
side of the house to pass a really good and useful measure.
Lord CAIRNS said he did not attempt to deny that ho
would gladly have seen the Government plan of Redistri-
bution very much altered and extended, but yet, on the
amendmentwhole of Lord,hecouhl not fora
Greyfor - an
a moment
amendmentconsent
which,to a
supports h
the,dl
been truly said, was little, if at all, short of another Reform
Bill. The result of such an amendment would be, if car-
ried, that the Bill must be abandoned, and this was a re-
fs
rpoomn s. i lei t
cyo
nden whichn
ehde
tbheol i
se
yv
setde theirln
o fgl
roor
ncl
vs ht
ni pgs,
awnodu
el
ad
rsnhersi
tnl
yk
entreated their lordships not to entertain that idea, or, in •
deed, any of
on theirftheideaaseweehpiteahnaee.
t this late hour were sought
to

Lord RUSSELL, after briefly revioyfivs the hietory of

the bill and the long delays in its conception, which had
prevented their lordships considering the matte' sooner,
said they were now told on the Ist of August. that, if they
considered this matter as they ought to consider it, with
a view to its final settlement, the bill might have to be
abandoned altogether. This was placing the House of
Lords in a painful and even humiliating position. He was
most sincerely desirous of a settlement of the question of
Reform, but this was not the way to settle it. His lord-
ship went on to say that it would, in his opinion, be a very
serious evil to the country indeed if the bill was p tssed
without a general. Redistribution of seats being finally
settled, and no room left for further alterations or agitation
on the subject.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was of opinion that the
Government scheme afforded as good a pause and resting-
place as they were over likely to get on this subject. lie
had not heard a single objection made to their plan as far
their general purpose was concerned. All that had been
urged against it was that some of their lordships thought
it did no go far enough. Ile did not and could not see why
if stopping at a limit of 10,000 was not a final settlement
the limit of 12 shan't' be considered final. There was no
reason offered for stopping at 12,000, or why that number
should be considered more satisfactory than that which
had been chosen by the House of Commons after careful
consideration and mutual compromise. It would be wis-
dom not to disturb that settlement, but allow time to show
whether the country was not satisfied with what had been
done. He objected very strongly to the amendment, as it
really upset everything and settled nothing ; still more
strongly did he object to it on the ground of its uncertainty
as to the mode of distributing the seats proposed to be ob-
tained. Lord Grey had no right to force upon the Go-
vernment the performance of a duty which was task
which properly belonged to himself. If a complete scheme
of this kind were brought forward, he, for himself, did not
care how much labour it would ()stall if they could pass
it; but it was impossible to class the present crude amend-
ment in the category of finished plans.
Lord CARNARVON explained the reasons which wo-ild
induce him to support Lord Grey's amendment. He was
in favour of the system of grouping boroughs. It had
worked well both in England and Wales, and had almost"'
put an end there to bribery. The more important ques-
tion was how they intended to distribute the seats they
gained. It was proposed to give them to great and im-
portant constituencies, both county and borough, not one
of which was touched under the bill of her Majesty's Go-
vernment.
Lord CARDIGAN expressed his intention of voting for
the bill as it stood, and begged that, when it had nearly
reached its final stage, another bill would not, at the last
moment, be substituted for it, involving months of labour
and increased agitation; and Lord Airlie twitted the
w Go-
vernmenthattheywith called
thet firmness ness
compactw iwtith t which
hheyhoaadsheerwedhetno
Liberal amendments were proposed, and the ease with
which they threw it over when changes of the most sweep-
ing kind were bought forward by Conservatives.
•
te

Lord STANHOPE had no difficulty as to which way he
was to vote on this occasion, for ho looked on the amend-
ment as not nearly so much intended toimprove the bill as
to injure the Government. The plan of grouping had been
the death of the last bill, and would have been the death of
this had it been adopted ; yet at the last hour they were
called upon to adopt this grouping plan in its most objec-
tionable form, and coupled with an extensive scheme of
disfranchisement. He could not believe in any statesman
bringing forward such a measure at such a moment. It
was not of the lateness of the Session of which ho com-
plained, for while there was public work to do their
lordships ivero bound to sit and do it; but it was the
scope and mischievous tendency of the amendment, cutting
up the country into three-cornered constituencies, to which
he objected, and he most certainly should record his vote
against it.

Lord KIMBERLEY thought the motion had been
brought under their notice in a most careful, moderat),
and statesmanlike manner. No greater misfortune could
happen to this country than that they should constantly
be debating and altering its Constitution, and this was
certain to be the case for some time to come unless a total
settlement were made of the Redistribution plan now. It
was not done by the present bill, and tho amendment
would remedy this debCt, and therefore he should sup-
port it.

Lord FORTESCUE expressed his approval of the
amendment, and

Lord GRANVILLE said that, so far from
.this bill being
considere I as finally setting the Redistribution scheme,
such a merit was not even claimed for it by its most par-
tial advocates. It was, on the contrary, suggested by the
Lord Chancellor that they should wait for two or Three
years to see how the people t )01c it.. If they went on with
this bit by bit Reform, there rcaliy would be no end to the
question or the agitation it would give rise to. His lord-
ship drew an amusing parallel between the condition of
the Conservatives alai the volunteers who went to defend
Chester Castle, and who did not know whether they were
entitled tc defend the Castle, their arms, or oven them-
selves. He then went on to blame this part of the bill,
and intimated that. her Majesty's Government knew their
duty too well to abandon the measure because their lord-
ships might sea fit, after mature deliberation and debate,
to strenghten the bill where it was weakest, and confirm
its finality on a most important point.
Lord DERBY replied, briefly complaining of the time at
which the amendment was brought forward, and above all,
of the incompleteness of the proposal. He repeated that
if this measure was now forced upon the Government it
would be his duty to ask the committee to report progress
until ho could consult h4i colleagues as to the course they
might deem it consistent with their honour to pursue.
Lord GREY said that to complain of the time at which
he brought his motion forward was most unreasonable,
inasmuch as so early as March last he had taken the op-
por:unity of stating his views on Reform, and on that oc-
casion Loid Derby had rebuked him as being premature.
After pointing out what ho considered the merits of his
plan—its completeness and its definite character —ho wont
on to criticise with keen irony of manner the concluding
threat, as ho termed it, of Lord Derby, which, if it
was a threat, he said, was one which would only have in-
fluence on those of the smallest pclitical experience. He,
however, denied that it was iu the power of Lord Derby
to take so extreme „a step as to drop the bill and plunge
the country into renewed excitement, especially when ho
was sure the decision of the Peers would be supported by
the public feeling and opinion of the country.
Their Lordships then divided on the question that the
words "ton thousand" stand part of the clause, when there
appeared--
Contents
••• 98„,
Non-contents
••• 8°
Majority 12
Lord GREY'S arnonduaent was therefore rejected.

On clause 16,
Lord LYDEDEN said he was convinced that without
some disfranchisement of the smaller boroughs any re-
distribution of seats would do little good. He moved that
all boroughs under 5,000 population should be disfran-
chised. Ile asked their lordships to consider his motion
well before it became a violent public question. There
was not an amendment which they hal adopted which
was not a Conservative amendment. This was an oppor-
tunity for them to show their impartiality.
'

After a few words from Lord ARUSDELL,
The house divided, when there were
Contents
Non-contents
Majority •• 000000000000 —56
The original clause was then agreed to, as were also the
clauses up to 27 inelusive.
The house then resumed, and the other orders of the
day having been disposed of, their lordships adjourned at
five minutes to 12 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAST EVENING.
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
THE JAMAICA moT.
Mr. MILL asked the Attorney-General whether ho had
taken into consideration the evidence produced at the trials
by court-martial lately held in Jamaica on Ensign Cullen
and Staff-Assistant Surgeon Morris, and whether it was
his intention to institute proceedings against those officers
in the ordinary tribunals of this country.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said be had considered
the evidence referred to, and he had to say that it was not
his intention to advise Her Majesty's Government to insti-
tute any proceedings against those gentlemen.
THE NAVAL REVIEW.
Mr. GRAVES asked the First Lord of the Admiralty
the number of royal naval reserve men who took part in
tlie late naval review; and, if any report had been made
oa their conduct and efficiency, to state the nature of same,
together with any reasons which might have been given
for non-attendance.
Mr. CORRY said the number of reserve men, exclusive
of officers, who took part in the naval review was 450.
No reasons were either given or asked for as to non-
attendance. The attendance of the men was quite volun-
tary.

PATAGONIA.
Mr. GREGORY asked the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs whether any report had recently been received as
to the present condition and prospects of the W elsh colony
in Patagonia; and, if so, whether there was any objection
to its production and publication ?
Lord STANLEY said the attempt to found the colony
had been attended with much difficulty, but, according to
latest information, matters were improving. The Argen-
tine Government had determined to continuo the subsidy
for twelve months longer, and if it should in that period
be resolved to continue the efforts to found a settlement,
lauds would be offered by the Argentine Confederation to
colonies in the interior,

THE IRISH ESTABLISHED CHURCH.

Mr. MaNSELL asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland
whether he could state the names of the Commissioners
appointed to inquire into the revenues of the Established
Church ; and when he would lay upon the table of the
house the instructions to bo given to the commission?
Lord NAAS sail he could not give the hon. gen,loman
the informa ion ho required et that moment, but he hoped
to be in a pc, Ition to do so next week.
UNIVERSITY EDUCATION IN IRELAND.

Mr. FA\VCDTT askod the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether he would give a promise that Parliament shall ho
consulted, and its opinion expressed, before either a charter
is granted to a Roman Catholic University, or before the
Government sanctions any other scheme affecting univer-
Fity education in Ireland.
The CH.ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
subject would be treated in a constitutional manner, but
he refused to enter into any promise at the bidding of the
hon. gentleman.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL.

The next question on the paper was the following, to be
put by Mr. WitALLEY, " To ask the right hon. member for
the University of Cambridge whether the Select Com-
mittee on the Ecclesiastical Tides and Roman Catholic
Relief Acts were about to close their inquiry without hear-
ing evidence in support of the present law? and why the
evidence of the Rev. Mr. M‘Ghee, which has been offered
in support of the present law, had not boon taken ?"

The SPEAKER said he did not call upon the hon. mem-
ber to put his question, because it referred to a matter at
present before a select committee which had not yet made
its report.

SIGNALS AT SEA.

In reply to Mr. KENDALL,

Mr. CORRY said no definite decision had been arrived
at with respect to adopting Sir Goldswortby Gurney's
system of flashing light generally throughout her Majesty's
navy.

CONTAGIOUS DISEASES (ANIMALS) BILL.

In reply to Mr. NEWDEGATE,

The eIIANCELLOR of the EXCITEQUER said ho Pro--
posed to proceed with the bill on Tuesday morning next.

PARKS REGULATION BILL.

In reply to Mr. OTWAY,

. -
Mr. HARDY said it certainly was his intention to pro-
ceed with this bill at the earliest opportunity that presented
itself. (Hear, hear.)
THE LODGER FRANCHISE.

Mr. M. TORRENS gave notice that on an early day he
should bring forward a motion to the effect that that
House saw no reason for alte►ing a decision it had unani-
mously arrived at—namely, at fixing the lodger qualifica-
tion at £lO. (Hear, hear.)
IRISH RAILWAYS.

On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr. MONSELL brought the condition of the Irish
railways under the consideration of the house, and asked
whether her Majesty's Government intend to propose any
moasure for the consolidation of the Irish railway system ?

Lord NAAS, in reply, said at the present period it was
impossible for the Government to take any stops in the
matter without further information being in their pos-

session.

Mr. LANYON expressed his approval of the course pro-
posed to be taken by the Government; while Mr. J. B.
Smith protested beforehand against the purchase of the
Irish railways, and Mr. llorsfall and Mr. Lemon-Gower
doubted whether Government purchase would be advan-
tageous to the Irish railways, and defended the Commis-
sion.
Mr. LAING remarked that the question could not be
decided on the principles which were applicable to Eng-
lish railways, and that it was hardly worth while to move
at,all except to do something considerable and important.
If by Government purchase the fares could be brought
down to somewhere about the Belgian level—looking at
the political and social circumstances of Ireland—it might
be worth while to throw political economy for once to the
winds. The Government must guard against buying the
railways at too high a rate; and if this were done, looking
at the figures, ho believed that the tariff might be reduced
without any great loss.
Sir P. fieygate, Mr. Childers, Mr. M‘Laren, and Mr.
Henley made some observations, and

Mr. GLADSTONE, whatever might be the decision as
to the purchase of the Irish railways, deprecated decidedly
their management by the Government, bet thought there
would be no difll mlty in providing for their independent
management. He agreed with Mr. L ling that it was not
wo.Mt.while to make a small experiment in vein but did
i< it think with Min- that there no- risk of loss, and
after expressing a strong opinion that there was no more
efficacious mode of benefiting all classes of the population
than to facilitate the means of communication, he urged
the Government to sift to the bettmn the figures whiek
would show how far a decrease in the faros would lead to
an increase of traffic. .
Mr. GRAVES drew attention to the restrictions on the
importation of foreign cattle into Liverpool, drawing from
Lard R. Montagu the reply that the Privy Council was
anxious to make every relaxation consistent with the ex-
clusion of the cattle plague.
Mr. COWPER moved an address fora royal commission
to inquire into the best mode of classifying and exhibiting
in our different museums the national art collections.
After a lengthened argumentfrom Mr. B. Hors in favour
of creating a separate Art Department which should take
charge of all the national collections,
Lord J. MANNERS replied that there was no necessity
for further inquiries, for within the last few years there
had been no less than 11. commissions or committees on
our museums, which had collected sufficient information to
enable the Government to act on their own responsibility,
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he reminded the
house, had promised to bring in a bill next session.
Mr. Cowper withdrew his motion ; and Mr. Taylor
brought under the notice of the house the recent decision
of a Cornish magistrate sentencing six persons to three
weeks' imprisonment for trespassing off a path through a
wood, and the legality of the sentence was called in ques-
tion by Mr. S. Leferre and Sir R. P. (Jollier.
Mr. KENDALL and Mr. HENLEY defended the
conduct of the owner of the wood and of the magistrates ;
and Mr. G. HARDY explained that the Home-office had
no jurisdiction in the matter, and painted out that if there
was any illegality in the sentence tho proper course was
to take it before the superior courts.
The House then went into Committee of Supply, andon
the Packet Service Vote,
Mr. CRAWFORD called attention to that part of the
report of the Committee on the East India Communica-
tions which refers to the postal services with India, China,
and Australia, complaining that the Government had not
comi lied with its recommendations, and animadverted
strongly on a presumed intention to give the India Mail
contract to the Messageries Imporialos.
Mr. HUNT defended the course taken by the Treasury,
contending that they had carried out the spirit of the
Committee's recommendations, and had kept the consider-
ation of economy steadily in view.
This discussion, which turned chiefly on the inexpedi-
ency—both ins political and economical point of view—
of encouraging a foreign lino of steamers at the
expense of
the Peninsular and Oriental Company, which was epre-
sontod to have performed such important public services,
and on the objections to making contracts without the
sanction of Parliament, was continued by Mr. Childers,
Mr. Samuda, Mr. Laing, Mr. Ayrton, Mr. Gladstone, and
claims of Falmouth, Plymouth, and Southampton, as the
station for the West India Mail steamers, the vote was
Smith,otb ers ;sai
rn ;111controversy betweenth3eirr..vJal.
agreed to. and the House ad-
aPf.teCrolalier, sharpand Mr. R. Gurney, over rival
otheriouTrnheedat a qouradretrts,rwtoertehrdeiespoo'scelodeokf.,

WANT OF HOSPITALITY TOWARDS A JUDGE.—The
Carnarvon .Assizes were held last week by the Right Ron.
Sir F. Kelly (Lord Chief Baron of the Exchequer), who has
taken the North Wales Circuit; and when the first of the
grand jury answered the summons, his lordship, address-
ing him, said he exceedingly regretted that it was not in
his power, on this his first occasion of visiting the county,
to extend to him and his brethren the ordinary hospitality
of inviting them to dinner. The reason was simply that
the high sheriff had been unable to supply a suitable house
wherein to lodge her Majesty's justices of assize. lie cer-
tainly should have considered it his duty to fine the high
sheriff, but he was bound to say that it seemed to hint
that ho had furnished a sufficient explanation of the posi-
tion in which ho had been placed; but if it should again
occur that this rich and prosperous county of Carnarvon,
with some 70,000 or 80,000 inhabitants, was unable to
adopt proper measures to yield that accommodation to her
Majesty's representatives on these important occaitions, to
which by the law of the laud they were entitled, ho know
not what course would be pursued, excepting that her
Majesty would be compelled to remove the assizes from
the county, the authorities having faile I to pay her repre-
sentatives respect. He had spoken thus with great pain,
but it was on account of the honour due to the office which
he held that ho considered it his duty to make some re-
marks upon the fact that the judge of assize in this county
had been obliged to resort to a public hotel.
MARINE DISASTERS. —The monthly record of the
Bureau Verita,s of Paris shows that in June last the num-
ber of vessels which were totally lost was 168, of which
80 were British, 30 American, 9 Dutch, 8 French, 8 Nor-
wegian, 5 Prussian, and 28 bearing various other 113 gs.
Of these vessels 19 are supposed to have been lost with
their crews, no intelligence concerning them having been
received. The total number of vessels lost during the
first six mouths of the present year is 1,517, or an excess
of six over the number lost during the corresponding
period Qf 1566,
•

TIMES.—" It is the first of Aas fie fttku titv s prin_
cipal argument of Lord Derby and of his supporters
last night. "It is the first of August," and Alto°
late to do anything more than is proposed i-. 12 the
Reform Bill as it stands. "It is the first of August,"
and if an amendment be carried the Government
will have seriously to consider what course they
shall pursue. The argument and the threat told
in a way to convince every impartial observer how
completely the judgment of the House of Lords was
at variance with the decision cf the Ministry. In
spite of the fact, reiterated with " damnable itera-
tion," that it was the first of August--in spite of
the menac.: which is dec'ared not to have been a
inensce, though delivered with all the solemnity nod
producing all the effect which could ever characte-
rise the most solemn menace in the world, 8G peers
supported Lord G-rey's amendinent for the extension
of the redistribution scheme of the Reform Bill
against 98 who voted foraltleh,eiaGn Government. The
supremacy
1 partyaosisllo Cot: thane enjoyed
OtwifehsLicoohfrdL°slol:recdeoupal:eirldbooyf
reopen and
latonudseen hat al mise-
rable2members inj odr ieteyl i on
declined
dt twelve 1 %rteeni np
nee a
therydoo
pro-
posals of redistribution which have beeng al
enlarged by the House-Of Commons in defiancealready
reluctant Government. As to argument against
of at
Lord Grey's amendment, there was none. slltnsis
the first of August," said Lord Derby. The most
dexterous of advocate—Lord Cairns—upon whom
must be directly charged the small transfer of votes
which gave the Government their feeble victory,
wrapped up the same plea in more voluminous dis-
guises, but the argument is the same. Lord Cairns
did, indeed, profess that he would have preferred a
larger scheme of redistribution as snore states-
manlike and more Conservative ; and he opposed
the amendment of the Government plans upon the
simple ground of the dangers which might ensue
should the Government prove restiff. The especial
defenders of the Constitution—the leading members
of the Conservative Ministry—appeared to forget
olaifn'rthe ii()tise
that, if the late period at which the Reform Bill had
reached the House of Lords were to be attributed as
a matter of blame to any one, it must be laid to the
charge of the Ministry themselves, and that in any
of
case their arguments tended to the extinction the
house of Lords as a branch of the Legislature co-
ordinate with the House of Commons. Lord Grey's
amendment was singularly simple. He proposed to
take a member apiece from each of twelve boroughs
now returning two members, and having a popula-
tion of between 10,000 and 12,000. This was the
amendment upon which the vote was taken. Had
it been accepted, however, he would have gone on
to obtain eleven more seats by grouping, or as an
alternative by disfranchising, the boroughs contain-
in°. less -than 5,000. inhabitants. The 23 seats thus
to be obtained he placed, of course, at the disposal
of the Government, but he very properly indicated
a complete plan of distributing them. Three he
desired to give to a new constituency—the barristers
of the Inns of Court; twelve as third members to
each of twelve counties and divisions of counties
numbering more than 150,000 inhabitants; eight to
as many boroughs--Bristol, Sheffield, Wolverhamp-
ton, and the five metropolitan boroughs of Lambeth,
Westminster, Marylebone, Finsbury, and South-
wark. As we have said the Government had not a
fragment of argument to urge against these pro-
posals, but some- phrases they could and did employ.
Who,- asked Lord Derby, has ever before suggested
such a plan of redistribution as is now pronounced
essential to peace? The limit of 10,000 was the
lowest limit of boroughs containing two members
prescribed in the bill of 1854, which went further
than any other in recommending a transfer of seats.
But we have advanced since 1854. Who has ever
before proposed household suffrage? Lord Derby
altogether neglected the truth that it is impossible
to make an essential change in one branch of our
representative system, and to leave the other com-
paratively unaltered. The franchise and the distri-
bution of seats must move together. This was the
doctrine insisted upon with unimpeachable argu-
ments last year, and it remains true now, however
convenient it may be to forget it. We shall not
resign it, however often we may be assured that
Barnstaple, Beverley, Bridgwater, and the rest aro
thriving, growing,
populous, and pure. The ex-
tended scope of Lord Grey's scheme was justified
by the extended scope of the Enfranchising Clauses,
and the decision arrived at reluctantly by the Ilouse
of Lords against its bstter judgment leaves un-
guarded a weak defence, which wig be the object of
immediate assault. But always, and throughout
the apologies of the Government, appeared the plea
of tune. "lt is the first of August," and if any
change be male, even for the better, the
House of Commons must be consulted. "It
is the first of August," and a sort of
ground swell of approval raponded to the well-used
phrase. We should have been more ready to receive
this defence for inaction, dishonourable as it is to
the House of Lords, were it consistently acted upou.
But who, we ask, have most outrageously disre-
garded it? If we review the progress of the bill
through committee, we find that to the Ministry
must be attributed-the most important occasion of
conflict with the Commons, the most threatening
source of protracted discussions, prolonged con-
ferences, and loss of time. When Lord Cairns
proposed to raise the lodger franchise from £lO to
£ls—a proceeding as unwise in its inception as it
will probably prove unsuccessful in its sequel—he
had no sooner ceased than Lord Malmesbury jumped
up and assented to the proposal. He did it, indeed,
as a compromise; but not even Lord Malmesbury's
ingenuity could explain between what conflicting
elements it was a compromise. The truth is that the
plea against extending the Redistribution scheme
on account of the time which must be occupied
in settling it is thoroughly unreal. No one
knew better than the Ministerial advocates who
advanced the argument that no time whatever
would be wasted except by the Government itself.
The House of Commons would not occupy au
hour in assenting to an extended scheme of Re-
distribution. The Ministry has throughout been
the impediment to action on a broad scale, and if
the opposition of the Ministry were removed all ob-
stacles would vanish. Lord Derby had another plea.
Lord Grey, he said, asked the House to disfran-
chise certain boroughs, but the Government had
always gone on the principle of ascertaining what
places should be enfranchised before considering
where disfranchisement should begin. We are aware
that Mr. Disraeli avowed this principle in the House
of Commons. We are aware that Mr. Gladstone •
approved it. All the same we venture to declare—
we use Lord Derby's own vigorous phrase—" that
it is absolute nonsense," and that no Ministry ever
has, or ever could, proceed on such a principle. En-
franchisement and disfranchisement are simply two
sides of the same transaction, which is a transfer of
a respective privilege from one community to
another ; and uo statesman couli ever propose the
transfer without having in his mind at the same
instant the relative claims of the two constituencies.
It is as rational to talk of trying to balance the
weights at the end of a b3ain by attending only to
what is put in one scale as to talk of enfranchising
one borough without considering the disfranchise-
ment of another. As the Duke of Argyll well
pointed out, the Government have by their action
flatly contradicted the professed but impossible
principle. They proposed to enfranchise certain
northern boroughs. The House of Commons pro-
posed to confer additional seats on certain large
towns, and the Government consented. Had they
acted upon the principle they had before and now
put forward, this acquiescence could not have inter-
fered with the enfranchisement of the northern
boroughs, because their claims to enfranchisement
had been independently considered. It could only
have produced a further disfranchisement. We
know that it did not. The Ministry, being not
wholly unwise in their acts, however distracted
they may be in their motives of action, with-
drew the proposal to enfranchise those boroughs
which bad established an independent claim to re-
presentation, and which may be expected, now that
their claims have been acknowledged by Conserva-
tive Ministers, to clamour for a confirmation of the
privileges promised only to be withheld. Tho Go-
vernment have withstood a practical and safe pro-
posal for the transformation of their scheme of
Redistribution into a permanent shape, and a
majority of twelve have supported them. So pitiful
a victory in spite of every effort of Ministerial whips
to secure it, and the most solemn warnings of the
consequences were it not secured, is a defeat. The
Government said they would have seriously to con-
sider their position in reference to the bill were the
amendment carried. We have heard these threats
before. There is nothing in them, though repeated
for an hour's duration. What has the Government
not yielded to secure the passing of their Bill?
What would they not yield which can by any pos-
sibility be proposed ? Who ;could lose by the re-
jection of the measure now so much as themselves?
Much may he uncertain, but of this we may be sure
—that they will be successful, and yet, though suc-
cessful, little of the credit of victory will be theirs.
They have resisted when they could ; they have
yielded when they must ; and refusing to meet the
wishes of Parliament by making their Bill worthy
of the occasion, and obviating the certainty of re-
newed agitation, they have shown how little
wisdom
the events of the session have taught them.

MARRIAGE LAW COMMISSION.---We understand
that tho roport of this commiaion will not be ready till the
beginning (Aunt year.

THEATRE ROYAL DRIJRY-LA.NE.I
Sole Lessee and Manager, Mr. F. B. Chattertcz.
THIS EVENING, THAT RASCAL JACK. Messrs. J.
Route, J. Neville, C. `Varner; 3lesdames B. Aleyne, C.
Thompson.
To conclude with T HE GREAT CITY. Messrs. C.Warner,
F. Morton, J. Fitzjames, F. Villiers, J. C. Cowl u'• W.
M'lntyre, J. Rouse, J. Irving, J. B. Johnstone; Mesdames
M. Robertson, R. G. Le Thiere, C. Thompson.
Commence at Seven.

TH.EATRE ROYAL, HAYMARKET,
Sole Lessee and Manay.r, Mr. Buckstone.
THIS EVENING, THE LOVE CHAS.E. Messrs. Chip-
pendale. Howe, Rogers, Kendal, C' ark, White, Weathersby,
&c. ; Mesdames Sedgwick, Chippendale, Burke. Sze.
Alter which, TO PARIS AND BACK FOR FIVE
POUNDS. Mr. Buckstone.
T.) conclude with THE RIFLE, AND HOW TO USE IT.
Mr. Compton.

Commence at Sever.

ROYAL OLYMPIC THEATRE,
New Management.

Sole Lessee, Mr. B. Webster; Manager, Mr. 11. Wigan.
T )-NIG LIT, SIX MONTHS AGO. Mr. Clayton, Miss n.
Fa!mer.
After which, THE LIAR. Mr. and Mrs. C. 3lathews.
After which. COOL AS A CITCUAIBER. Mr. Char'es
Matthews.
To be followed by THE CRITIC. Mr. C. Mathews, Mr.
U. J. Montague, and Miss E. Farren.
Doors open at half-past Sig; commence at Seven.

ROYAL PRINCESS'S THEATRE.
Sole Lessee, Mr. Vining
Under the Management of Mr. Hermann Vezin.
THIS EVENING, the performance will commence with
THE DAY AFTER THE WEDDING. Mr. E. Price and
3liss Nelly Moore.
After which, at 8, THE MAN 0' AIRLIE. James Hare-
►sell, Mr. Hermann Vezin ; Messrs. E. Price, H. Forrester,
&c. ; Misses E. Stuart and Nelly Moore.
To conclude with THE CLOCKMAKER'3 HAT. Sally
Smart, Miss Charlotte Saunders.
Doors open at 7 ; commence at half-past.

THEATRE ROYAL ADELPHI.
Sole Proprietor and Manager, Mr. B. Webster.
THIS EVENING. a new Musical Drama, GAMe ssrRIBALDI
R.
IN SICILY. Miss Roden, 8 Ewily ritt ; s.
Phillips, J. G. Taylor, and Ashley.
Atter which, at 8, THE LA DY OF LYONS, Ali ssrs. H.
Neville, Billington, Milky, Steuart, and C. H. Ste; henson ;
Miss Kate Terry, Mrs. St. Henry, and M rs. Bi lli ngton.
To conclude with A SLICE OF LUCK. Messrs. J.
Clarke, J. G. Taylor, C. IT Stephenson, C. J. Smith; Miss
A. Seaman and Miss E. Pitt.

ROYAL STRAND THEATRE.
Sole Lessee and Manageress, 3lrs. Swanborough.
TH EVENING REVERSES. Messrs. S. Emery. Par-
gel le FIS
. Robson. W. Swanborough ; Madames Ada Swan-
borough, Johnstone, and Handers.
After which, the Latest Edition of FRA DIAVOLO.
Messrs. Thorne and James; Mesdames Gwynne, Newton,
Holt, and Weathersby.
Commence at half-past Seven.

-NEW ROYAL AMPHITHEATRE AND
CIRCUS, HIGli HOLBORN.

!AFEN EVERY EVENING.

COMIO BALLET, and

CENES in the ARENA.

TAGNIFICENT 'HORSES.

UNEQLTALLED RIDERS.

riillE Feats are of the Most Varied Kind, and
j_ every one of them is executed t o perfection."—Times,
_

May 27.

GRAND HORNING PERFORMANCE every

SATURDAY at HALF-PAST TWO.

THEY afford an excellent opportunity to the
triend4 of the rising generation to give them a treat
which the little ones will not fail to enjoy."—Standard,
July 3

THE "SUN" NEWSPAPER.-
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terrace, Edgware-road, d ,livers the LATE EDITION of
" T LIE SUN " at the earileit possible moment after leaving
the press. tie is able to deliver copies in Town, the Suburbs,
and in many parts of the Country at a9ompa.ratively early
hour the same cveninz. say 40 miles by o'clock.
Orders by Post punctually attended to.

_----=------_
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LONDON, FRIDAY, AUGUST 2, 1867.

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_____-----_
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JOHN GOSNELL and CO.'S CHERRY
TOO r a PASTE is greatly superior to any tooth
powder; gives the teeth a pearl whiteness. protects the
enamel from decay, and imparts a pleasant fragrance to
the breath. Price Is. Bd.—lted Bull Wharf. V 3, Upper
Thames-street, London.

NOTHING- IMPOSSIBLE.—The greatest and
most usettilinvention of the day, A.GI3 A MAR ELL A.
Wieners. JOHN GOSNELL and CO.' Red Ball Wharf, 93,
Upper Thames-street, Pertamers to her Majesty, respect-
fully offer to the public this truly marvellous fluid, which
gradually restores toe human hair to its
has n pristine hue—no
matter at what age. The Agua Amarella of ti.e
properties of rives ' • it, on the contrary, is beneficial to the
system, and when the hair is once restored one application
per month will keep it in perfect colour. Price one guinea per
bottle, or in half bottles, 10s. 61. Testimonials from artistes
a the highest order, and from Individuals of undoubted re-
spectability, may be seen on application. Mem& John
Goinell and Co. have been appointed Perfumers to her Royal
Highness the PriftoeBs of Wales.'
-------

HIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE.
l'ins DAY.—Morning, 3h. 12m.—Afternoon, 3h. 37m.
To-Moßnow.-Morning, 4h. Om.—Afternoon, 4h. 20m.

tft)it .t 1- SUIT
te-44

Another victory for the Reform Bill was obtained
last night, and it will, we hope, prove the last mo-
mentous struggle that has to be overcome. It is
true that the majority was not a large one, but still
it was decisive, and removes the measure from
danger in the direction indicated. Lord DERBY was
fortunately enabled to take his place in the House,
and his arguments were unanswerable, especially as
regarded the labours of the session. Perhaps it is
not surprising that there should have been so much
difficulty found in disposing of this motion, when
we remember that Reform is one of the most awk-
ward, if not the most awkward,subjects to deal with.
Every one has a plan of his own, a suggestion or
crotchet, or something to which he seeps to give
precedence, and when the rare opportunity of legis-
Iry ion presents itself, he is naturally unwilling to
lose the chance of realising Lis cherished idea. Re-
form, indeed, is actually not a party question:
although it may sometimes have been made its stalk-
ing-horse, for it relates to principles that affect the
state of society, and no one can be supposed to
decide hastily on a subject of so much importance.
The chief fault to be found with Lord GREY'S pro-
posal was', that it was too complicated, and could
hardly, under the most auspicious circumstances,
have been successful as an addenda to an already