The Sun.
London, England, 1867-04-17 00:00:00

ri!rades' Uni c j .

spiration to take place without unnecessary exertion,
the air being supplied to the lungs at exactly the
same pressure as that of the surrounding medium.
The diver, chosen at haphazard, on being ques-
tioned, stated that he inhaled, during submersion,
the necessary amount of air without any uncom-
fortable feeling, and by the free action of the dis-
charge valve, which is subject to the same pressure
internally and externally. He breathed almost as
if in the free air, and could have remained any
length of time under water. A number of the ap-
paratus was ordered to be supplied to each of her
Majesty's dockyards forthwith. _ _ _

In the inquiry by the Royal Commission on
Trades Unions, Mr. William Allan, the secretary of
the Amalgamated Society of Engineers, has been
examined, and his evidence gives an insight into the
working of a most extensive organisation, formed
entirely of one of the best paid body of workmen
iu the country.

The witness stated that the society was formed in
1851. of a number of societies which had previously

existed, and it now numbered 33,600 members, with
an annual increase of 2,000 or 3,000 a year. There

Her Majesty's iron steam store ship Megwra,
Capt. J. Simpson, on particular service, arrived
and moored off the yard at Woolwich yesterday
from the Mediterranean, and commenced discharg-
ing stores, after which she is to ship provisions and
dockyard supplies for Rio and Ascension.
The screw corvette Barossa, 21, 400-horse power,
attached to the third division of the Steam Reserve,
is ordered to be placed in No. 4 dock at Chatham
as soon as the latter is vacated by the steam dredg-
ing machine, under repair, to undergo some heavy
repairs to Ler hull and machinery, and to be brought
forward for commission.

are, he said, 308 branches—namely, in England and
Wales 238 branches, having 27,856 members; in

Scotland, 33 branches, having 3,218 members ;
and in Ireland, 11 branches, having 1,371 members.
In the British Colonies there are 14 branches,
having 626 members—namely, in Australia,
Canada, Malta, New Zealand, and Queensland. The
United States have 11 ,branches, with 498 members.

In France there is only one branch, having 30
members. All these branches are governed by one code

of rules, and the members of the foreign branches
are principally Englishmen. Those in France are
all Englishmen. Each member pays ls. a week, and
the society has now a fund in different banks, in
round numbers, of £140,000. The annual income
in 1865 was £86,885, made up, besides subscrip-
tions, of entrance fees, each number having to pay
an entrance-fee varying from
,15s. to £3 10s. The

The dockyard and the whole of the naval estab-
lishments at Chatham will be closed on Monday
next, by order of the Admiralty, and the workmen
will receive a holiday, to enable those connected
with Volunteer corps to take part in the review at
Dover. Yesterday the hands commenced working
extra hours, morning and afternoon, to make up for
the time granted. The War Department and Ord-
nance establishments at the port will be closed on
Saturday next, the day following Good Friday, in
this case also the hands belonging to the depart-
ment previously working over time.
His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge is
expected at Devonport this evening. The Com-
mander-in-Chief will review the troops there to-

expenditure in 1865 was £49,172, the heads under
which it was distributed being—Members out of

employment, £14,076 ; to sick members £13,785
14s. 9cl; superannuated members (members who
are " too old to gain the ordinary rate of wages at
the trade"a being allowed 7s. to 9s. a week each),
£5,184 17s. 4d. ; on the death of members and
members' wives, 14,887 ; and the sum of /1,800

among 18 members who met with accidents and were
unable to follow the trade. Then there is a bene-
volent fund, made up of a compulsory levy on every
member. It should be here remarked that a mem-
ber on ceasing, for any reason, to be a member loses
all these benefits, except those who have received
the injury money, and they are entitled to the bene-

morrow.
The following promotions, dated the 10th inst.,
were announced on Saturday to have taken place in
the Royal Marine Artillery—viz., Col. Second Com-
mandant George Augustus Schoenberg, C. 8., to be
Col.-Commandant, vice Colonel George Gardiner
Alexander, C.B. ; Lieut.-Colonel Charles London
Bernard to be Col. Second Commandant, vice
Schomberg ; Captain Henry Way Mawbey (In-
structor of Laboratory), to be Lieut.-Col., vice
Barnard ; First Lieut. W. 11. Townsend Morris
Dodgin to be Capt., vice Mawbey; Second Lieut.
Charles 11. Hallett to be First Lieut., vice Dodgin ;
Capt. Julius Bunce, Inspector of Musketry at the
Woolwich division Royal Marines Light Infantry,
has been appointed to go to*ltipon to take charge
of the recruiting district on the 18th inst. rapt.
Davies, now on that station, to return to Woolwich.
Capt. Delacombe and Lieut. Beadon to take their
departure for San Juan, Vancouver's Island, on the
17th.
The following appointments have been made at
the Admiralty :—Lieut. Henry A. Street to the
Meg:Bra, vice Lieut. Bond, superseded at his own
request ; Heaver Sugden, master, to the Cumber-
land, for the Viper ; Sub. Lieut. C. J. Whitelock,
to the Prince Consort ; Edward P. Tomkinson and
Jasper E. T. Nicols, midshipmen to the Royal
Alfred ; John Breakey, M.D., surg., to the Serapis;
James Flanagan, surg., to the Crocodile ; James
Lilburne, surg., to the Cumberland ; William
Telfer, surg., to the Canopus ; Daniel Donovan,
M.D., assist.-surg., additional, to the St. Vincent,
for the Martin.

fits on paying 6d. a week.
With respect to " trade purposes" the secretary
stated that the average annual payment for mem-
bers out of work for the 15 years the society had
been in existence was £lB,OOO. On being ques-
tioned as to what percentage of this money had
gone through strikes or disputes, he said,—"'We
have only had one dispute which you may call im-
portant in our trade since the commencement of the
society, and that was in 1852. In the first six
months of that year we expended £40,000 on a
lock-out ; but it was not our fault we were out of
employment ; it was the fault of the employers who
locked us out." He added, on another question
being put to him—" We have not kept a separate
account of the amount spent under this head ; but,
leaving that £40,000 out, I should say it does not
exceed 10 per cent. as far as any strikes with our em-
ployers are concerned." He then went on to de-
scribe the organisation and the government of the
society. Each branch is managed by a committee, and
there is an executive council, to which appeal is
made against decisions of the branch committee. The
executive is employed four evenings a week, and
holds day meetings to hear these complaints. He
considered from two-thirds to three-fourths of the
whole trade belonged to the union. At this point
the Chairman (Sir William Earle); asked—" Have
the members of the association any objection to
working with non-unionists ? Is there any attempt
at excluding workmen who are not members of the
association from employment ?" To which the wit-
ness replied—" There is one thing very certain,
namely, that we do not assis them into employment.
We do all we possibly can to get our own members
into employment. If what we call a non-society
man obtains a situation in a shop where our mem-
bers are working we do not object to his working in
the same shop, certainly, so long as he is legal to
the trade,' as we say ; we would not object to his
working in the shop simply because he did not be-
long to the union." The Chairman—" Would you
make it more disagreeable to him than it would be
to a society man ? There are such things, for
example, as not interfering with a man, but at the
same time refusing to speak to him or hold inter-
course with him." Witness--" It will depend on
circumstances ; if the party had committed himself
in some way in connection with the trade, in all
probability if he went into a shop we should put
him ' into Coventry.' " The Chairman—" That
would be for his individual demerit, but my ques-
that case we would not." Sir D.
tiou was pointed to this : if he had only the demerit
of not belonging to your society would you do so?"
Witness—
Gooch —"
There are a large number of men in
every shop who are not unionists, are there not ?"
'Witness—" it, depends on the locality." Mr.
Merivale—" Av bat is the meaning of your term,
In
'legal to the track .
9'" Witness—We suppose a man
who has been five years at the trade, whether appren-
ticed or not, is capable of earning his livelihood at it
and has becot.ie a competent workman." The
Chairman—"'What has been the effect of the union
upon wages and hours, in your opinion ?" Witness
—" To lower the hours of labour and to maintain a
proper rate, or what we conceive to be a proper rate,
of wages." The Chairman—" Are you of opinion
that there has been an increase of wages by reason
of the action of the union that would not have oc-
curred had the union not existed ?" Witness.L
" Decidedly 50.,, " And, similarly, with regard to
the lowering of the number of hours '?" Witness—
" Decidedly so." Sir D.
.Gooch—" What are the
union hours now ?" Witness—" It. depends on the
locality. In Loudon, for instance, it is 58 hours
per week. In Manchester and that district it is
571 hours per week ; and in some parts about the
north of England and some parts of Scotland it is
GO hours per week." The Chairman—" Is there
any prohibition as to men working over hours ?"
Witness—" No, we have no rule to prevent any
member from working over hours." The Chairman
—" But, adopting a phrase which was used just
now, do you either deprecate it or discountenance
it ?" 'Witness—" No, we would prefer that it was
not done, but still we make no decided objection to
it." The Chairman—" Have you any objection to
piece-work ?" Witness—" Yes, we have a very
decided objection to it, and endeavour to do away
with it where we have the opportunity." The
Chairman—" In what way do you make your ob-
jection known to the workman who is inclined to
take piece- work ?" Witness —" That is made
known to him through the committee of manage-
ment of his branch, which I have already re-
ferred to." The Chairman—" Does it lie only in
words to the effect that the society object to piece-
work, or is the man fined? Is there anything more
than persuasion ?" Witness—" We have resorted
to other steps. For instance, if a member will per-
sist in doing so contrary to the wish of his fellow-
members, we sometimes expel him from the society."
The Chairman—" Is there any rule in the society as
to unskilled workmen being employed with ma-
chinery ?" Witness—" No, not in the rules." The
Chairman—" And no such rule in practice ?" Wit-
ness—" Where we possibly can we always like to get
our own members to work the machines, but we do
not, as a rule, take any action against the other
parties working them." Ile went on to state that
the men were generally averse from strikes, and en-
deavoured to avoid them, thinking, " matters ought
to be settled in a different way ;" and the different
way was by sending deputations to the masters. On
the question of piece-work, the Earl of Lichfield
asked what objection there was to it, and the wit-
ness answered, " To be candid with you, and that is
the best way of dealing with the question, we believe
that it has a tendency to injure the trade ; that is to
say, that by the introduction of piece-work and every
one being allowed to use his own discretion in the
matter, ultimately our wages would be brought
down to something like the sweating system among
the tailors ; and so we endeavour to destroy the sys-
tem wherever we possibly can." Sir D. Gooch asked,
"Have you found that piece-work does reduce
wages?" to which the witness replied, " Yes, cer-
tainly." He went on to express, in answer to the Earl
of Lichfield, other objections to piece-work. " We
believe it is not altogether a proper system ; but that
the work in a great measure suffers, that it is not
done in so finished and good a style as if it were done

'HE SUN, LOiNDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 17. 1867

by day-work. Then, too, the wages of piece-work
_ _

are generally settled by an expert workman ; that
is, the employers generally give a piece of new ma-

chinery, or whatever they want doing, into the
hands of an expert workman, so that if he gets what
may be considered a fair wage, those who are not
such good hands come down to almost a starvation
price." In reply to Sir 1). Gooch he said he had
known instances of men on piece-work having to
go with less than what an ordinary day's wages

would have been, and such eases had occurred at

the Royal Arsenal and other Government works.

Mr. Merivale asked, "Is the rate of wages really

and permanently lower where piece-work prevails

than-the rate of wages where piece-work does not

prevail ?" To which the witness replied, "No ;iu
Manchester the wages are higher than in any other

part of the district, and there - piece-work exists to
a very considerable extent, though not so much as
formerly." And he added that the work, as a gene-
ral rule, was, he thought, inferior. He hesitated to
affirm this, however, and on questions by Mr. Thos.
Hughes and the Earl of Lichfield he said piece-work
was carried out at the Woolwich Arsenal, and there
could be no question, generally speaking, about the
work being well done. In some cases, he said, the
Government " were good employers."
On the question of rules, he said there were some
by-laws in addition to those printed for general cir-
culation, and these bylaws are read to every candi-
date when he is admitted. They had relation to
piece-work and obtaining situations for non-society
men. "If," he continued, " a member obtains a
situation for a non-society man, without the con-
sent of the president or officer of his branch, he is
liable to a fine of 55." . . " And we have a
fine of 10s. and a fine of 20s. and exclusion to
any member who is working piece-work and will
not share the surplus money with those engaged
on the work, and the phrase those 'engaged
on the work ; does not apply simply to our own
members, but to boys and non-society men as well."
After the great strike or lock-out of 1852 the funds
of the society fell to £3,000 in band, and 2,000 mem-
bers left out of 12,000. After that a levy of 6d.
a week each man, in addition to the ordinary sub-
scription, was made in order to realise a fund. There
had been no strike since 1852 of any importance,
but if there were to be the society would call on the
members to subscribe a sovereign or half-sovereign,
so that there was no fear of the fund going down.
Mr. Hughes asked, " It is very difficult for a strike
to hapren in your society, I believe ? What mea-
sures have men to take, for example, before they can
strike in your society ?" The witness answered.—
"They have to represent their grievances to the
committee of their branch. In a town where there
is more than one branch there is what is called a
district committee, composed of seven members from
the different branches, or more in proportion to the
number of the branches in the district ; and instead
of the branch committee dealing with the question,
the district committee deals with it, because there is a
larger representation. For instance, in London we
have a district committee composed of 24 members,
because we have 24 branches in the district, and
when any dispute arises in the district the whole of
the 24 branches are represented, thereby bringing
about a proper understanding in relation to the
question at issue, and affording a better opportunity
for arriving at a satisfactory conclusion. Mr.
Hughes—" But supposing that the men who wished
to go out had got the consent of their branch in,
their own town, what else would they have to do ?'
Witness—" Then they would require to get the con-
sent of the district committee, and the approval of
the executive council." Mr. Hughes—" Therefore,
unless approved in the first place by the branches
of their own town, and in the second place by
the central executive council, no member of your
trade can strike Witness—" No, or at least they
ought not to strike." Mr. Hughes—" That is to
say, they would not be supported if they did ?"
Witness_" I would not take upon myself exactly
to say that, because a great deal would depend upon
the nature of the case. If some employer, for
instance, went and said to his workmen, Your
wages after to-morrow night will be reduced 3s. a
week,' in all probability the men would leave there
and then ; in that case we would consider them en-
titled to the benefits of the society." Mr. Hughes
—" But as the ordinary rule they would require to
get first the consent of their own branch, and then
that of the executive council ?" Witness—" Yes,
where there was time." Mr. Hughes—" And upon
the consent of the executive council being given the
men would go out, and get their allowance'?"
Witness—'‘Yes."
The further examination of the witness ended for
that occasion with some general questions on points
already noticed.