The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-16 00:00:00

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When it was determined that a change should take place is any danger, bet the danger might be 'possible
in the home Government of India all parties agreed order a Sovereign less constitutional than Her Ma-
unanimously that the nominal, as well as the real autho- jesty—for the Crown to employ ladian troops in wars
rity ought to be transferred to the Crown, and that the wholly and entirely nnsanctioned by Parliament the
affairs of India should be conducted in the name of the whole force of India might be carried to any portion of
Crown. The noble earl below me (Ellenborougb), when the world without the exercise of the constitutional pe-
on the other side of the house, said that, though he did cuniary check to which I have referred. The bill intro-
, not desire any change at present, whatever change was duced by the late Government contained a clause to the
made ought to go to this extent. The home Governmect effect that Her Majesty should not be empowered to
of India no doubt has been conducted with singular pro- send out of Asia any part of the force wholly maintained
dente, and I should be sorry to look upon this bill as it and paid out of the Indian revenues. As far as the re-
has been represented at the India-house as a bill of pains • striction on the prerogative goes, the principle is pre-
and penalties. Ido not believe that any men could have , cisely the same, whether the restriction is that the troops
administered the affairs of India under the system which , shall not be sent beyond the limits of Asia or beyond the
they found established with more success than the East : limits of our Indian possessions, and I think it would
India Company ; but the complicated and unnecessary I have been perfectly competent for Parliament, in- hand.
correspondence, the unavoidable delay which that sr- , ing over to the Crown the government of this vast empire,
tern required, made it obvious that the only change ! to make a stronger provision, and to provide that the In-
which could be made was to put the Government of ' dian force rattail be levie I upon the footing of a militia
India undera Minister responsible directly to the Crown I -consequently, not required to serve beyond those
and to Parliament. (Hear.) In point of fact, however, ' dominions. While the principle cf the exception in
the transfer is more nominal than real, because though r the bill of the late Government was the same as ours,
the Court of Directors exercise certain powers of obstruc- ; •it would have allowed that which is the real and
tion and delay, yet, with the single exception of the recal substantial danger. Within Awe you migbt carry
of the Governor-General, they can perform no act which ' on w it with Persia, you inignt carry en war with Cbina,
not subject to the revision of the Pretident of the Beard you might carry on war even with Russia, and without
of Control. Not only does the President of the Board of further exception than that the troops should not serve
Control possess the power of altering or of vetoing the out of Attie, all this might be done by the authority of
instructions proposed by the Courtof Directors, but he has ' the Crown, and Parliament have no control over the ex•
I pendit are and no right to express an opinion on the the power, and it has been sometimes exercised, of senning
pro-
out in-tructions diametrically opposed to those which the priety of the war. It was not our intention to limit, the
Ceurt intended. There is a question whether the Court j prerogative of the Crown, but our intention was to pro,
might not have interposed delay, aid even perlitted, an, tact the revenues of India, and consequently when we
til compelled by a mandamus ; but in point of tact they come to the clause I shall propose an amendment to
hare generally been obliged to yield to the suggestions remove all ambiguity, to the effect that it shall not he
of the President of the Board of Control. We all remem- competent, except to repel actual invasion or in a snd•
leer that my noble friend below me (Earl of Ellen- den and urgent emergency, to make the revenues of India
borough) who has on various occasions been at the applicable without the consent of Patlisment to defray
head of the Board of Control, told the committee that I the expense of military operations, citified on beyond
when be was in office the Government of India was in the frontier. (Hear) Tne other point to which I
his hands altogether. (Hear, hear.) There was no great would refer is contained in an earlier clause of tho
difference of opinion, therefore, between the two great bill—l think in the 321 or 333—which has reference to
parties is the other house as to transferring the powers admission to thecivilservice. The lawns it etandsprovides
of the East India Company to a responsible Minister, that all persons who are admitted into the civil. let-
and carrying on the government in the name of the vice ;,of the East India Company shall pees each
Crown. (Rear.) Neither was there any difference of opi- examinations as shall be from time to time prescribed
then in this, that, although it was expedient that the and regulated by the Court of Directors and the Presi.
business should be conducted by a Minister responsible dent of the Board of Control. That power is now trans-
to Parliament, yet, inasmuch as it is not possible that ferred to the Secretary of State, but this bill goes, fur-
any one man should have sufficient knowledge and expo- ther than I think the justice of the Case warrants, and
rience to administer the affairs of all the difftrent pro- gives to the principle of competitive examination, for
vinces of India, it would be nectssary to give him a the first time, a Parliamentary sanction, fettering the
Council more or lets numerous by whom he might be acts of the Executive by an Act of Parliament, and corn-
advised or controlled. It was with regard to the cue- polling an adherence to the principle of competitive exa•
stituteon of that Council that the greatest difference minntion. It is my intention to move the omission of
existed between the late and the present Government. the worde which render it necessary for the Government
The late Government proposed that the Council thould to admit candidates for the civil service in the order of
consist of eiebt members, holding office for six years, all I their proficiency at a competitive examination, leaving
nominated by the Minister of the day, and two to retire the law as it stands with regard to admission to the In-
each alternate year. We, however, were of opinion that dian civil eeiviced sue ject to such regulations as ramp
that mode of selection would not give sufficient indepen- i be ironed by the Secretary of State, with the approval of
derma to the members. One-third would just have been ' the Crown, and laid before Parliament. There is one
nominated, and another third would be looking forward other most important point—namely, the reconstruction
to immediate re-nomination by the Minister or the day, and organisation of the future Indian army. That
and there would, therefore, be a greater temptation than ,is a question of the most vital importance,
there ought to be to give way to the opinion cf the and her Majesty has been advised, and will, I be-
Minister of the day. We were of opinion that a Council , believe, act upon the advice, to issue a commission for
of eight was not sufficiently numerous, and we thought I the purpose of instituting an inquiry into all the subjects
that 18—the present number of the directors--eras not 1 nom ect el with the reorganisation of the future forces to
more than was required by the business of India. The Ibe employed in India. (Hear.) Tnis commission will
Council of India we thought ought not to be—as the have to consider the proportion of Europeans to be em-
directors may have been before—a screen between the played, the mode in which they shall be relieved, the
Minister and Parliament, but a body of men well ac- I conditions upon which they shall serve, the number of
quainted with the affairs of India, to give the Minister the native army, and the conditions upon which they
advice, which, on his own responsibility, he might be at I shall be engaged, and every other question connected
liberty either to accept or rej ct. I have heard it stated with the future peace establishment of India when the
that a Council so constituted would either be the master revolt shall be happily put down. In the meantime it
or the servant of the Minister, according to his charac- will be necessary for Parliament to provide for the
ter. There is no doubt that it depends very much upon maintenance of the present state of things until the re-
the self-reliance of a person at the head of a great depart- suit of this commission shall be known. and until Parlia-
ment of the State how far he is influenced orcontrolled by meet shall have acted upon its recommendations. The
those who fill permanent situations under him ; but I be- bill, therefore, provides what may be necessary for the
lieve i hat the Council which we propose in tbis bill will present, leaving to her Majesty the perfect freedom
neither be masters nor servants, but valuable advisers of of making such regulations for the future ad•
the Minister. To secure their independence we c ,nsidered ministration of the army, both as regards
that a certain portion of the members of the Council should the European and native troops, as she may
be elected, and another portion nominated by the be advised. The bill also provides, as far as it refers
Crown. We were also of opinion that their term of Ito individuals and bodies, that they shall have re-
office, to secure their independence, ought to be extent I served to them all the rights, privileges, audexpectations
Ave, and we propose in this bi.l that the members of the which they were led to form at the time of their adnais-
Council shall held office during good behaviour, with sion to the service. (Hear.) It would be the grossest
the provision that after 10 years' service they Abed be injustice to introduce a similar system at once in both
entitled to retire upon an adequate pension. When we descriptions of the Indian force, and to apply the same
came to deal with the elective portion of the Council we 'principles to those who ebali hereafter enter and those
found considerable difficulty. My noble friend below— who entered the service under different expectations.
not now a member of the Government. but for whose (Hear.) I have now stated to your 1 nelships, I trust
scheme we are all responsible—proposed originally an not at too great length—(cheers)—the principles cf the
elaborate plan, by which the military and civil services measure to which I ask your lordships' assent. The bill
of the three presidencies would have been represeu-ed in has receive:l the careful deliberation and attention of the
the Council. It was objected, however, to that provision House of Commons, and it has be: sent up to your
that it would fetter her Mti etty's Government in the selec- lordships with the universal concurrence of that house.
tion of the butt men, and that they might frequently he I have 'without; entered at too great length into an ex-
compelled to choose inefficient men and to pass over the planation of a measure to which no objection will pro-
most competent. Another provision in that plane which liable be made ; but while the'laboure of the House of
also was not received with any great degree of approba- Commons render it probable that a e very numerous
tion, was one by which we thought we might be able to amendments will be necessary, her Majesty s Govern-
obtain in the Council representatives of the commercal ment will be happy to give the fullest anti most impartial
interests connected with India. We preowned to give to I consideration to any amendments which may he sue-
four of the great towns most connected with Indian corn- ' gested in tbe course of the discussion of this bill.
merce tbe right of eelewitet a member of the Council; but I (Coeers.) The noble earl concluded by moving that the
there appeared to be so many difficulties in the way of bill be now read a second time.
carrying out that proposition that we did not insist on it. Earl GRANVILLE said it was not likely there would
;ever be a complaint from either side of the house that
The col c'twion at •vhich we arrived eneh the view of ee.
curing int, lligence, exp-rievos, and ii d •per.dence in the I any speech of the noble earl's was too long. (Hear,) He
members of the Council was that it was neces-ary a oer-
tain portion should be elected and a certain portion nomi-
bad only one cease of regret--that the singularly clear
nated ; that the loosens elected should have served or I and lucid statement of the noble earl had not been made
resided a cerwiderable peried cf tome in India, and that I at an earlier period and in a house still more full. The
tney should hold their offices, as I have stated, (luring 1 noble earl had stated with perfect accuracy, what bad
pleasure, subj-ct to be removed upon an address of the
pateed when the late Government introduced their bill,
Houses of Parliament or for gross tniscouduct But when
which was opposed by the noble earl and his friends.
we came to apply the principle of election v. e found con-
siderable difficunies. It could not he argued, hardly I When they came into office there were two courses open
with more that plausibility, that the Court of Proprietors I to them—either to adhere to their original opinion, sr,
as they wisely and prudently did, feeling that the matter
possessed such an interest se to entitle thee: tot em to
the Council. Their funetione, as y.oir 1 wdshipe are awarr, bad gone too far, and the House of Commons had too
are limited to the receipt of dividends on their stock,
strongly pronounced, to adopt the legacy left them. The
and though they have the power to pass resolutions,
practiCally they can give no effect to them. It Wls pro- noble earl said they might have adopted the bill of the -
posed to add to this body, to make it more nurneroue, and late Government, and introduced certain amendments.
to give it more connection with India, all parsers who for He must say that that would have been the most
a certain time bad served in the military or civil service i simple and tpeedy course. He thought they would
of India and had returned to reside ie this country. But ;
have been able to introduce even all the amendments,
it was found that it would be a constituency very difficult,
to bring together, very inconvenient on account of its they at first proposed, and certainly all they now had
number, and having the same disadvantage as the present introduced, and the matter would have arrived at a much
East India proprietors—namely, that the most compe- speedier conclusion. After the Government had intro-
tent, the ablest, and the highest•minded men will not duced their bill, all the original matter they had inserted
submit to go through a canvass for the purpose of being was disapproved of, and the Government at length
appointed directors, and still less would they go through a adopted the suggestion of Lord John Russell to proceed
canvass of a more extensive body for the purpose of being by resolution ; that would have been very well in the
elected members of Council. After much consideration first instance, but after the bill had been introduced it
her Majesty's Government decided to adopt with regard was rather an anomaly ; it had, however, one advantage
to the elected members a principle whicb, if I mistake —that if the usual course had been taken, as the noble
riot, was recoutmended by a noble earl not now present earl the President of the Board of Control bad induced
(Earl Grey)—namely, to give to the existing Court of the holier) to believe it would, and the resolutions sent
Directors, or persons by them fiat elected, the power up to them, if not simultaneously, at least at a certain
of filling up vacancies by the election of duly quali- period, they would have had ample time to discuss fully
fled persons ; and, upon the whole, in a choice of the whole bearings of the question. Certainly the time
difficulties, I think that course the best to escape thedif- would have been well spent, as the house included many
ficulties attendant upon the adoption of a system of elee • well informed on Indian affairs, and had the advantage
tieD. With regard Co the change of name, from Presi- of great legal minds. Such, however, was not the case,
dent to Secretary of State, though not very important and the result on the whole appeared to be, not that the
of itself, it was considered more advisable and more in bill had been particularly well considered in the other
conformity with constitutional practice to give the name house—(bear, hear)—but that the constant discussion
of Secretary of State to a high officer upom whom her had produced a weariness which, added to the present
Majesty is pleased to devolve the exercise of duties under state of tbe Thames, made the house too ready to accept
her Royal sanction. As regards the Colonies and Foreign any proposal which the Government threw to it. He
Affairs, so as regards India, the same title is given ti the very much feared that, considering
the late period of
presiding officer, and there will bji this additional con- the session, and their desire that nothing factious should
vertience, though not at first contemplated, that either appear on their part, it would be difficult in passing the
of the Secretaries of State will be able to sign papers and bill to pay that attention to the details which was so re-
perform duties in the absence of the Secretary of State quisite. (Hear, hear.) The noble earl had stated with
for India. The Secretary of State for India has full power perfect accuracy the principles and objects of the bah.
of acting in opposition to the advice of the Council, but The principle was to transfer the government of India,
if he acts in opposition to the advice of a majority, be is so far as this country was concerned, from the Board of
compelled to put on record the reasons why he puts Directors to the Crown. These were the of to be
aside the advice, and members of the Council have the attained—one to simplify the machinery of the govern-
same right to enter their reasons for dissenting from any went at home, the other to secure the inestimable ad-
proposition made or adopted by the Secretary of State. vantage of governing India in the name of the nove-
There is a provision also requiring that the Secretary reign. He would not weaken the noble earl's arguments
ef State shall call the Council together within seven by repeating them. A.s to the change made by the pre-
days, and submit to their consideration any orders whiob sent Government—namely, of the name of the Minister,
in a case cf urgency he has the power to issue without it was better that he should be called Secretary of State
their previous cogniztnee. There is also a provision than President of the Council. The late Government
which your lordship,' generally believe to be antolutely would have made that proposal but for some technical
neces-ary, and without which the noble earl below me difficulty as to making a high officer, the organ
says the government of India could not be advantage- of the Crown, subject to the control of another body.
ously carried on—namely, a transfer to the Secretary of With regard to chief differences between the two bills,
State of the power formerly exercised in a secret com• it would be hardly honest for him to conceal that, atifar
niittee of sending out orders and instructions without as he was individually concerned, he had from the first
communication with the Council. Ido not mean to say felt very great doubts as to whether the council was at
that that power on certain occasions bee not been
all that amiable adjunct it appeared to some. (Hear.)
abused. Ido not mean to say that it has not been too There were these advantages suggested—the advice and
extensively used ; but I am sure your lordships will support they gave to and the control they exercised over
agree with me that with regard to the two questions tbe minister. The noble earl rather threw over the con-
to which alone it is properly applicable—the carry-
trol, and if he threw over that, there was not much force
ing on operations of tear, or making diplomatic in the rest of the argument. As to advice, he believed the
States—it
arrangements with native is absolutely difficulty of getting it was not great ; one invaluable
essential the Secretary cf State should poetess. the
source existed in the permanent servants of the India
power of preserving entire secrecy, even from the
House ; and he did not see why the now government
Council. (Rear.) There are two questions upon which should not be able to secure the same class, who had to
the Secretary of state is overruled by a majority—first, a great degree carried on the government of India. As
with regard to the election of a member, and second, to his own experience, whenever be felt it necesary to
with regard to the expenditure of the revenues of India. obtain information on Indian subjects he always found
The election of members would be a farce if the Secretary old Indian server's ready to give every information, but
of State, by his sole authorny, could overbear the ap- be found that with regard to general questions they were
pointtnent of any particular man. With regard to ex- more apt to dwell on individual circumstances in par-
penditnre we must bear in mind that the House of Com- ticular districts where they had held office. If he wanted,
mons does not exercise any control, and therefore it is to go into the general question he should consult a man
essential that there should be a bona fide control over like Sir J. Melvill, who whether he might be right or
the Secretary of State by the independent body which wrong in his views was able at once to state the whole
I hope this Council will be. There are only two other position of the question, give the history of it, and cite
subjects to which it is necessary to call attention, and I all the authorities. It would be easy enough to find men
call attention to them because I think upon them the arriving from India perfectly well informed on depart-
principles and intentions of this bill have been some- mental questions, but if the council was to be repre-
what misapprehended. The one relates to the etre sentativo they would be in thedifficulty of exciting 80010
ployneent of Indian troops, and the other to the jealousy in a member by applying to the unofficial source
admission of persons to the civil strei.e. With for advice. Witte regard to the support, he believed itd
regard to the first, it has been objected to the was very muctwoverrated ; v,ith a men of nhh.i.,:7"o
clause which particularly deals with teat question temper, when the geternment was in no d'illttolt:ithinv
—tee 55th clause—that it proposes to interftre with doubt the minister and council would
the prerogative of the Crown, inasmuch as it provides although if any proposal
would be
that none of her Majesty's forces maintained out of the Commons, a minister, quoting
regard tto a tvhaeil
hoont-
revenut,s of India, except in oases of urgent emergency, met by the reply, "Of course yo,ong,
not your autho-
was
hieint ra c °dee' otiuginnono ci
on
council,
agreestivio 11
se
Withll
shall be taken beyond the Indian frontier, without the you ;" or "Let us hear your reasons,
previous consent of Parliament. It was thought, and I tits." On the other hand,
w woulduld the
h have v e the Council writ-
the words might bear the construction, though it trot, a strong minister would
difficulties, and they was not intended by the framer of the clause—that it self of the loopholes given by bill ; but when itah;
ought to be
correspondence and allowing Others see it. Re
was an interference with the indisputable prerogative of Government got
to the natural rejoin-
practical Crown to maka war or peace. Although there is no supported by the
prerogative more indisputable than that, the constitution jog long
viDg
gas provided an equally indisputable check upon the knew he wlea
such were his opinions, himself open
wits, had he supported
practical exercise of that prerogative, by rendering it der,
why,
if
for a Council I •
necessary that the Crown should come to Parliament for any
.prepoe His answer simply was, the
inn the bill was the paramount •
object, and public
the supplies, without which it would be impossible to Par-. would not consent
carry on war. But with regard to nor troops in India, opinion to the transfer without some
control, and the
there was and there can be no such Parliamentary con- such course proposed by the late Gu-
ent would b
trot, and, consequently, if there were no such clause as vernm
„aye given all the advantages-with the
this, it might have been corapeteat—l do not seypossible
theta least ic•:)rulou of the disadvsntages of snob s body,