The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-01 00:00:00

or indemnity was not to be settled off hand; but her Ma.
jesty's Government believed that the compensation they
Wdemanded for the British engineers was a just claim,
and that they would succeed in getting it. (Cheers.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said his question was involved in
the first question, which the right hon. gentleman did
not answer. He therefore had bad notice of it. (Hear.)
VACCINATION.

Mr. MONSELL asked the Vice President of the Privy
Council Committee, whether his attention had been
called to the fact, that out of 1,636 deaths reported to
have taken place from all causes in the quarter endirg
the 31st March, 1858, at Burton-on-Trent, Sheffield,
and Merthyr Tydfil, 419 were reported to have been
caused by small-pox ; and whether he proposed to intro-
duce any amendment of the Vaccination Act?
Mr. LIDDELL said his attention had been called to
the report, and he regretted to find that in many other
places the deaths from small-pox were so great as to
amount to nearly one-third of the deaths during the
quarter. The spread of smallpox was as much to be at-
tributed to bad vaccination as to neglect of it. At present
he was not prepared to introduce a measure for the
amendment of the present law, but he thought a remedy
would be provided by the second clause of the Pubhc
Health Act, that was set down far second reading this
eight.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE—MR. WASHINGTON

WILKES.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from Mr.
Washington Wilke, who was committed on Friday last
to the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms for a libel on
Mr. Clive, M.P., published in the Carlisle Examiner.
The petitioner stated that the author of the information
in the article had misunderstood the information con-
veyed to him, and that he (Mr. Wilkes) un-
reservedly retracted the imputation conveyed in
the State minutes on Mr. Clive relative to his
dealing in the Caledonian Railway, whilst the case was
pending. He did not retract on Friday, because be
then thought the retractation was to have reference to
the whole of the article, and not that part only, imput-
ing corrupt motives to Mr. Clive. He (Mr. Gibson)
moved that the petition should be printed and pub-
lished with the votes, with a view to Mr. Wilkes's dis-
charge.
The motion for printing and circulation was then
agreed to.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that on and after the 10th of Jane the Government
orders of the day should have precedence of notices of
motion, which, after a desultory discussion, was agreed
to.

right hon. gentleman's purpose. Bat will not the right I they were actuated on the opposition benches—(cheers)—a
hon. gentleman explain what were the grounds on which i Government which publishes libels on former advisers of
he made that most injudicious and improper i the Crown, and attacks on former Ministers—(hear)— a Go-
(Hear, hear.) It was a statement eaten' te, to affecte
stat 1
vernment which sends forth to the world and publishes to
m e
nt
the e ?
'
public credit, a statement calculated to throw distrust into j the who e of India principles which, if carried into execu-
all our commercial transactions, because when men are tion , would lead to the dismemberment of oar Indian em-
told that they were totally ignorant that we were within pire—a Government which, from whatever motives it may
a few hours of war with France, how can we expect confi- have been actuated; publishes to the world the most offen-
dence to exist with regard to the commercial relations of sive and insulting remarks on a Minister of the Crown in
rto_the
one of our foreign dependencies. (Cheers.)
the country ? Is it not an indiscretion on the
.pa _ f
ministers of the Crown thus to throw distrust into all the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The
statement
commercial transactions of the country ?If the
had been well founded and in accordance with thethenfactsßaitt
unfortunate circumstance which has recently occurred in
was an improper statement to melee there and
if it was not so, if the right loon• gentiomlanenhvayd.hniom• state tmhaartkcsooufnttrhye
nwohhilcehlfoorrdm. edAthgeenstulebmjeacet ofof part of
hthaveiroeg-
reasons wherewith to j.ustity his opinion,
done or written something which offended a powerful body,
th a state o ffomind
zwohviecrhn lme ae'
government
ma
which be belongs, to as-
was called to account by a member of that body ; he met
popularityinorder to gain a -little
whichwith
matter
the
sert that they had accommodated a
with his opponent without any hesitation, and in the first en-
lculated to produce a war
late government was ea
he used, and "hours" counter conducted himself with fair repute and success.
Franca And " war" was the term .
'mere interruption of our friendly (Cheers.) But no sooner did that occur in this house, which
the period, it was not a .
butactually war with our ally. (Hear.) Bat if
relations, was last Friday, than another gentleman, one whose fierce
reference
and indiscreet with
this statement was injuriousi
mien and considerable reputation it is supposed will put
to the affairs of this country, how much more was it nju-
rious with regard to
taken upon himself to demand satin-
that power feel that it has been accused of a covert inten- faction, accompanied by a considerable body of other gen-
tion to attack this country within an hour, without our tlemen, who seem by their presence to signify that if the
being prepared for it ? Is not that imputing to France second assault is not more successful than the first he will
something approaching to disloyalty and treachery ? I
have others to succeed him, (Cheers.) I hope that my
call upon the right hon. gentleman to explain or retract
the assertion he then made. (Hear.) I again affirm, speak- words will not apply to anybody in this horse ; but I meant
ing from my knowledge as the then First Lord of the Tree- to state that I cannot at all believe that ray fate in this
sury, that there was nothing whatever between the twogo- seemed encounter will be so unfortunate as that of the tin-
vernments to indicate, in our opinion, any probability of happy gentleman to whom I have referred. (Hear.) But I
there being any serious dispute, much less the state of things
which the right hon. gentleman has so strongly described.
cannot help saying, considering that the noble lord has
There may have been differencesbetween the governments, come from the country to make his assault,
after thepresentgovernmentcameinto office, there may have greatly over-stated the case, which was morn temperately
been charges or complaints of intentions evaded and pro- urged on Friday night. Let me remove the gnat misconcep-
mises broken. That I know nothinc, about. It is possible
tion on which his argument was founded. First of all, no
that that imminence of war which the right hon. gentle-
man has attempted to charge upon our administration, may inadvertently,
doubt he ascribed to me words which I not
have taken place after the present Government came into only never used but had no intention of using, I never said
office. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman went on, in that when we came into office this country was on the verge of war.
boasting speech, to allude to the affair of the Cagliari, and What I did say was this—that the war might have been an
he claimed credit for the present Government for having
affair not of weeks or days, but of hours. Rear, hear,
rescued our countrymen from the dungeon in which they
from the Opposition.) But the statement that by 'that I
were immurred, and for having brought them to this coon- from
to convey the impression that the late Government
try. (Loud cheers from the Ministerial side.) But these
had left affairs in such a state that war was inevitable is an
men had been set free, and handed over to the charge of
entirely fallacious one. (Oh, oh.) I will admit ill that the
the consuls at Naples, before the present Government came
n
into office. (Hear.) They had both been rescued from the noble lord now says. I will admit that when kin Govern-
dungeon, and placed in a comparatively healthy place of merit retired there was no prospect of a war with France.
imprisonment before the present Government came into (Cheers from the Opposition.) But that is exactly the ad-
on
office. (No, no.) But as to the trial to which they have been
mission
e, which the accuracy of my observation rests.
brought, I expected an answer to the question that we.s put Of course, when there was a Government wile bad avoided
about half an hour ago—l expected the right hon. gentle-
answering a despatch which it was supposed conveyed an
Go-
man to say that they had been unjustly tried— that the law insult to the people of this country, when there was a
s
vernment who not only declined answering this supposed
officers hal advised that compensation was, clue—that the
Government had demanded that compensation, and had
iusuling, despatch, but also agreed to introduce a bill into
this house to change the laws of Euglanel, of course it was
triumphantly obtained it. That yet remains to be stated,
(Hear.) That was one of the boasts which the right hon,
easy for a Government of that kind to maintain a good un-
-
gentleman made. Then he went on to say—fur the greater derstanding with a Power whose purposes then (that Power
part of his speech seemed to be an attack upon the late Go-
being entirely misled) the Government was prepared to
vernment that there was an intrigue carried on—l pre-
fulfil. (Hear.) But the moment the change of Government
same by us—to bring about about a war between Sardinia
took place, the moment there was an administration bound,
and Naples. I utterly deny that there is any truth in that
in deference to a resolution of this house, to answer, end
assertion; and I have no doubt that the right hon. gentle-
in a becoming manner, that supposed insulting despatch—
man will have the goodness to state the grounds on which the moment there was a Government whose first duty it
it was made. He always says that they have performed
was to declare to the Government of France that they were
wonders in the way of finance. He says that there was an not prepared at their instance to recommend any change
immense deficit—millions of deficit—(cheers from the Go-
in the laws of England, the house will see that at such a
moment the issue 'of peace or war was most imminent
vernment side)— and that this immense deficit had been got (hear, hear)—that it did depend upon weeks or less--(hear
rid of simply by a small tax upon ardent spirits and a penny hear)—and that It was not so much a question between
duty upon bankers cheques. (Hear.) Why, sir, if an im- the Governments of the two countries as between the ex-
mouse deficiency is to be got rid of by such easy methods cited feelings of the two nations. (Hear, hear ) And those
the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer would be much who have attended to the circumstances know that the ex-
easier than it is. (A. laugh.) But I regret to say that pressions I used in Buckinghamshire were not inadvertent
Sire Government have only proposed that which they were or inaccurate, or exaggera Led expressions, but that they were
afraid to meet. (Hear.) Tney have thrown upon other years perfectly warranted, historically accurate expressions, such
that deficiency which they shrink to meet this year. (Hear, as could be used at that time, not only without giving
hear.) So far from that being a subject of boast, if it is offence to France, but, on the contrary, only referring to cir-
their lot to bring forward a budget next year, as they seem cumsts.nces which then existed. And,
how_did the Govern-
to suppose it will be, I think their vaunting will be its own mentact in that position? C.dled upon to pursue a policy
punishment, and that they will then have a larger defici- at a moment when the noble lord tells us there was scow
which to contend with. (Hear, hear.) The next point on rity for a good understanding between the countries, dew
colleagues, the right hon. gentleman belauded himself and his did government act? Her Majesty's Ministers trusted to colleagues, and cast opprobrium upon us was the question the great sagacity and natural good disposition of that
of India. The right hon. gentleman said that our policy eminent person who rules France. They believed that, if
was one of unmitigated vengeance and massacre. On this all the circumstances ware lfrought before his unerring
I may appeal to the words I uttered many months ago, as judginent—(hear, hear)—that if the question was extri-
intimating the policy which we had recommended to Lord cried from the influence of those parinites of both conn-
Canning, and which I have no doubt he was about to follow. tries who had induced him to believe that the people of
I stated at a public meeting—not like that which the right this country would submit to a change in their laws-
hon. gentleman addressed on Wednesday—that the policy knowing the complete knowledge which the Emperor of
of Lord Canning would be to punish the guilty, to spare the France had of England, knowing his great sagacity sad
is and to reward the deserving. (Hear, hear.) That his natural good disposition, they were confidant that,
is the policy by which we stand—not the policy of massacre if he was called uponaition,
to the consideration of the
and confiscation. (Hear.) Therefore it is a libel upon us question, he would decide as was best for the happi-
to accuse either us or him of having fallen back upon a ness of both countries ; and their confidence in that
principle of unmitigated vengeance and general massacre. eminent parson was not placed in vain. (Hear, hear.)
(Hear, hear.) But the right hon gentleman said they were From that moment week after week, and month
going to rebuild and reconstruct the government of India after' mouth, our relations assumed a more cordial
upon a secure and sure foundation ; and the method by character—(cheers)—and, under these circumstances, was
which they aim at that is by sending forth to all the world I not justified in saying that we maintained peace, and
and publishing to all the netiene of India, a proclamation that inestimable alliance on which the civilisation of
the purpose of which tended to the dismemberment of our Europe so much depends ? (Hear, hear.) Therefore the
empire, and the object of which was to weaken and under- observations of the noble lord to prove that the late
mine the power of the Governor-General of India. (Hear.) government of the Queen did not leave this country on
And that is their reconstruction of our Indian empire. the eve of war were founded on a fallacy. I admit the
Bat the right hon. gentleman was somewhat severe upon whole case of the noble lord in the very words of the
his colleagues, lie said, speaking of the manner in which noble lord, that " there was nothing when he went out of
the latedebate h
thadmen been
oni conducted,
those that the only speeches
office which threatened war between the two countries;"
he grn were of memb not but then the condition on which peace depended was in-
connected with the Government. Anybody who heard financed by the change from a shameful and truckling
that speech, and knew nothing more of the matter, would policy which had been pursued by the late Government--
suppose that the Government had not said a word, and a policy which was not only not for the honour of this
that the whole defence of the Government was left to inde- country, but,- as I believe, opposed to the interest and ad-
pendent members. (Hear, hear.) Did the right hon. gentle- vantage of Fresco, our faithful ally. I believe no one is
man forget that there were four speeches—five, indeed— more convinced of that now than the Emperor himself,
made from the Treasury benches, all remarkable speeches ? and that is proved by the way in which the news of the
(Hear, hear.) Did ha forget the speech of the Solicitor- trial of Bernard was received in that country. His General—a speech which I shall not easily forget? (Hear,
Ma-
hear.) That was a speech of great ability—of great promise
—and one that, even though made against us, I was glad
to hear from any member of this house—especially from
one who is a distinguished member of his profession.
(Hear.) If was a speech, no doubt-, somewhat forensic in
its character—that is to say it was the speech of an
advocate speaking from a brief, and liable to be met by an
Par-
hon, an I learned member on the other side. (Hear, hear,
and "No, no.") But it was an admirable speech, and not
one to be passed over asit was by the right hon. gentle:pee.
There was the speech of the Attorney-General for Ireland testy felt that the law of England had been fairly appealed
to and administered in his own case, and the Government
felt convinced that the administration of the law, though
ono result could be more mortifying or disappointing, could
never la,co•Le a source of misunderstanding and coldness
betwein the two countries. I was justified, therefore, in
stating that I had, in unison with the declaration of Par-
lianlint, vindicated and maintained the honour of Eng-
land, without forfeiting that alliance which, I am proud
to say, exists with the mose cordial feeling on both sides,
but which, according to the noble lord, could only be pre-
-a speech marked by the national eloquence and the manly
served by pursuing a policy which this country repudiated.
(Hear, hear.) Having made that statement which the noble
power with avli.da be always addressed the house—not s ) lord- I will not say perverted, because I believe he misun-
ornamental as the speech of the Solicitor-General—(:s laugh) deratood it—but that I wish° ito convey to the country —but still a speech which, being made in defence of the that France would make a sudden attack upon us—l need
Government, was entitled to some notice from the right hardly say that no such thing was expressed or intended
hon. gentleman, (Hear, and laughter.) Then there was by me. I intended to say that which wawa matter of fact
the speech of the Under-Secretary of State (Mr. Hardy) that within 24 hours, in consequence of the truckling, also a very able speech—and also the speech of Lord Stanley, servile, and diserwieful policy adopted, but which as.nrued
now appointed to the Presidency of the Board of Control a temporarily fretterine position towards the French peo-
a speech of calm and sound argument. which ought not to pie aria Emperor, there was danger that war might
the
S
ir been passed over as it was. (Heir.) It is true that taken place between the two countries. (Hear.) But the
Sir J. Pekineton, Mr. Henley, Mr. Wa;pole, and others of wisdom and dignity of this country on the one hand, and his colleagues, held their tongues—l think very prudently the wisdom and magnanimity of the Freneh Emperor, pro-
- they probably felt that " the least said the soonest vented that great evil, and the alliance between the two
menled," red accordingly left their policy to be defended
countries is now as firm and as c irdial as ever. (Hear.)
by
ble thfurose
it .wh I
oßut certainly those members of the Govern- lishmen, and those Englishmen nay constituents, or that I
merit who did speak have a right to pretest against the should be ashamed or afraid of making Buell a declaration ?
slight that was put upon them by the right hon. gentleman. The noble lord says the declaration was injudicious and
Then ho takes a view of the relative position of the two
improper ; but these are words to which I might apply a
parties in the house, and makes what ha conceives an al- different meaning. It would be easy for me to retaliate by
most overpowering discovery. Ho says that there is at dying that it was injudicious and improper is the noble
present in this country what has not existed since the lord to bring •he matter again before the House of Com.
time of Charles If.—namely a cabal. (Cheers from the
Lone. (Hear.) The noble lord then says that; my state-
Ministerial benches.) He says that upon this side of the melt was likely to affect the public credit of this country,
house there exists a most extraoi din iry, a most unjuetifi-
Publie credit is indeed a more delicate thing then I ilea-
able, and a most unheard of into :thin to dispossess the Go- due
it to be if that statement of mine, as I have vindicated
verninent of office. (Laughter.) The word `` cabal," if
it to-niche, could have the slightest effect upon it. What
I understand it right, means only a party consisting of a affects the public credit of the coon try is a secret and ser-
small number. I take it that the distinction between a vile policy pursued toter plase so.ee foreign power in total
cabal and a party is that between few and many. Well, if ieuorance of the characr of this nation, and which, there-
those who sit on this side of the house are deserving to be rot.ended • disappointingthatand b fff the
the inpower, a ing
called a " cabal " because they are few, I do Lot are wishes which it allowed it to cherish. (Cheers.) That is
the ground for the alarm which the right hon. gent e-
a policy which, 0 notdeny, may I d be injurious to the
man expresses at their designs ; for those designs, how-
public credit of the country. (Hear ) The noble lord has
over, unheard of and alarming, and mischievous, are still a hankering after the case of the Cagliari, in respect of
designs which a few will find it difficult to carry into which he was so reserved ant silent when he sat on this side
execution. Bat when he compl tins that El) long as his
of the house (Hear.) The noble lord did. not seem quite
Government has been established it has been the object of
with'
satisfied our having free t two of our countrymen
incessant intrigues and attacks I should like to know who
whom he for long months permitted to ram tin unnoticed.
leads those attacks. (Hear.) 'He cannot charge us who (Ministerial cheers.) At last, ashamed of the conduct of
sit on thee:, benches with doing so. On the other hand we hieaself anti his colleagues, he makes an ineelverteut state-
have acted with the most kind forbearance towards him. went to-night by which he wishes to convey to the house
(Cheer s and laughter.) And it has come to my ears that and to the country that our two countrymen were net
noble
wore .of those who wish us well have thought that we b of The noble
y the exert ens the present government. were neglecting and shrinking from our duty— that we lord is wrong in the statement he made to the house. Both
were allowing the Government to go on from blunder to
blunder, proving every day its incapacity to govern men were prisoners when we acceded to office—(hear, hear)
, and
--and the firs', thing we did on coming into office was to
its unworthiness of the confidence of the house and the communicate with Mr. Lyons, to apply to the government
country. (Hear.) We did not pursue that factious course ef• Naples, and to interfere on behalf of our countrymen.
which the right hon. gentleman has attributed to us; but a The noble lord s iys that one of them (Mr. Watt) had been
case arose which appeared to us to involve the utmost freed, and was under the care of the English consul. How
danger to our empire in India, and in which, as stated by was he freed ? Why was ho freed ? Winit were the condi-
an hon. member, the course pursued by the Government treat of his freedom ? That unfortunate man, under the
might have subjected them to impeachment, as tending to treatment ho received, and in consequence of the neglect
disturb our possessions in India, and to throw dismay and of the noble lord and his governmentcheers) —was discouragement amongst amongst our troops. That occasion having fectechin his reason, and on the application being made by
arisen, I should have been ashamed of myself if I had not the English consul, who behaved throughout those pro-
stepped forward to endeavour to procure the opinion of ceedinge with great spirit and humanity, he was permitted
the house on conduct so extraordinary, and so unworthy
to leave his dungeon arrl to enter an hospital or lazaretto,
of a Government. (Hear.) But if it were such a factious
proceeding that within three months of the formation of
but the condition was that the instant his health revived
he was to return to his imprisonment and to take his trial.
the Government a vote of censure should be moved upon (Hear, hear.) As I had the satisfaction of announcing to-
them, let the right hon. gentleman recollect what has oc-
night, in answer to the question of an hon. and learned
curred in former sessions, and he will find that he has him- gentleman, these two English subjects have left their pri-
self been guilty of the same factious proceeding ; but those son, free and without conditions, (Cheers.) Yet the noble
votes of censure were negatived from time to time by
lord attempted to state that one had been freed by the in-
small numbers, which the right lion. gentleman would
fluence of t. ear, hear.) ill make
perhaps call a cabal. (Hear.) Then, we are told, this
no remar his own governmenk on the statement (H
of the noble to
I wrd that
cabal is exceedingly well formed. That is the charge dared there was an attempt anmegetsoine persons to excite
aeainst us ; it certainly cannot be a charge against the war between Naples and Sardinia. The noble lord has re-
present Government, and I acquit them entirely of that. ferrad to the obseevations which I made on that matter,
(Hear, hear.) Bate the right hon. gentleman charges but the noble lord was unauthorised in many particulars.
us with obtaining a knowledge of foreign affairs by un- -
constitutional means. I hope, he will be good enough to The statement that there had been attempts to embroil the
two countries—that Italy might take advantage of these
specify what he means by that (Hear, hear.) No
doubt we do unfortunate attempts to excite war between the two coun-
know a good deal about foreign affairs ; and t.-h t the consequences of that if itoccurred,
it a
it would be very repraseusible if we did not, having been would be to set Europe in flames—that theconsequerices
in offico fur a considerable time. And I hope k •
. in ‘•
•
we now a would be fatal to that constitutional cause Seriatim
little about domestic affairs tar). (Hear, hear ) But I • feltmuch interest,firm •
should like to know who those f • in which weso
foreigners are who are cabal- -
ling aide us about deposing the right hon. gentleman from tion ; and _
that those who joined in those endeavours
his seat. If it were true that we bad brought the country believed they would.o prove inconvenient and emb ir-
to the verge of war it is not very likely that the reres , rassing to the ens g
ti Government, was founded on no
tatives of foreign governments would be desirous to restore slight Then the'
ti- evidence. (fear.) noble lord, in his (Its-
us to office—they would bo more likely to wish for the con- curer va speech, goes to the question of finance, and he
tinuance of the more peaceable government which the right seems sore that the measures of her Majesty's Govern-
hon. gentleman repres mete. (Hear, hear.) I entirely repo- meritd f b the house, d
have been approve 0 y e ouse, an passed with-
diate the charge which the right hon. gentlemen maSee ?I l .
t difficulty. (Rear.) The noble lord seems disposed
against ns of obtaining information by unconstitutional ' opposition to the measure of the Government
eP
ace,in
had been prepare I, but happily not
means and by foreign !ntrigues. But the right hon. gentle- the budget which.d
by the late G.everninent--(heer, and
man attacks the press. I leave the press to defend itself; brought forms'
which a root principle- t have been
that beerllS. I)
• able c, so. (Rear, h-ar.) But when he says laughter)—°f g , r.
it is quite to d
Contributors to the that some candidates for office are
hon. press, an increase of the income-tax. ( Hear, and oli.) 'That was
I should like to know whether there acknowledged by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer,
are any gentlemen
on that side of the house wh ) have not contributed to "the an .l for that policy the 11cl-els:lord himself as the heed of the
press" for the purpose of bringing themselves into office. Treasury, niight be thought responsible. Then the noble
(Cheers.) Those are the grounds oa which I object to the ford tires to Italie, and repeats the charge which was not
speech of th sight hon. gentleman. deny altogether,
as much intiatettem by the noble lord the member for the
e _ I
n that there was any City; that the policy of the late Government, as a policy
fel. R 3 my knowledge goes, the assertion
at the time we with regard to Italia, was a policy of extermination or
chance of war between England and France •
t. Ts were something of that character, lam sorry that a speech
left office. (Hear, hear.) I say that our rele io .
as
made at a dinner in the country should be made the subject
most friendly, intimate, and confidential; and therefore,
of so much analysii in the House of Com mone. (Haar.)
fir as we are concerned, that assertion is entirely without
But if any gentleman reads my speech in a fair and dis-
foundation. I say that when it is asserted that we arc a
catal, I care not for that assertion; it implies only teat
wo passionate manner,. he will find that it is not possible by
any logical construction to make the observations I there
are few in number; and the result will show which of the
two fides has the greatest number of adherents in the house. uttered apply to any previous policy. (Hear, and oh.)My observations were made with regard to confiscation
But I deny further, if wo are a cabal, and areaiiniug at up-
and the consequences of confiecttibta (Hear,) The con'
setting the present Government, that this is a novel pro- and
of confiscation are vengeance, anal of vengeanee
cee,:ing. (Hear, hear.) To say that such a proceeding had
massacre ; and I say that confiscationewengeance and mas-
never been known from the time of Charles 11. is an asser-
sacre a:e the aggregates in the climax }nick makes me
tion Which I di I lot expect to user from so competent an
Prefer the superior policy of mercy. Thst is the statement
stitherity Re the right hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.) P
.i. made to my constituents, and I said—l leave you to
Butt will state what I think is a novelty—not that there
between the policy which' we recommend—a policy
sionld he a caballing opposition, but that there should be a choose
fee •
of mercy, of ,„ religious toleration, and of respect for pro-
. tiousgovernment— (hear)—thatthereshould be a govern-
mell
ty, and the consequences of the
t carrying into °Moe all the factious feelings by which Per • ,

Canning ; which policy being one of confiscation, must
lead to consequences directly the opposite. (Hear,
hear.) To that statement I now adhere. The noble lord
having touched upon the question of Fr trice in a series of
observations which I have shown are founded on a mis-
conception ; having touched on the case of the Cagliari,
with a statement which is entirely unfounded ; having
touched upon a question on which I have shown that the
inference he draws is entirely unauthorised, I now come
to what I believe is the real and main cause of this ad-
journed debate on the Buckinghemshire dinner. (Laugh-
ter.) The noble lord said I have called the opposition a
cabal, which, irrespective of other objections, he says is an
inappropriate term, because the only difference between a
cabal and a party is, that the former applies to a smaller
number of persons. I should not care to quarrel with the
definition of the noble lord, but at the same time I am not
willing to give my assent to his definition of the word
cabal. I always understood it to mean a secret society of
conspirators—(ministerial cheers, and cries of "Oh, eh,"
from the opposition)—that it meant a secret and unknown
society. Therefore, when I speak of a cabal, I need not
assure the house that I am not talking of any opposition or
party in the House of Commons, whose whole conduct is
public, whose members, whatever may be their opinions,
must be considerable, and whose behaviour within these
walls must be attended by accidents and circumstances
which are totally discordant with the popular idea of a
cabal. (Hear, hear.) I am quite certain that I never talked
of a cabal in the House of Commons, or used any word by
which any member of the House of Commons might con-
sider he was a member of that cabal. There may be mem-
bers of that cabal in the House of Commons. (" Hear,
hear," and laughter.) I am sure there are members of that
cabal who are not members of the House of Commons, and
I protest against the noble lord's taking up these observa-
tions and insinuating to the House of Commons that I in-
tended to describe what must still be a very inconsider-
able number of its members. But I want to know from
the noble lord what is the meaning of these repeated dis-
cussions of my speech—whether this is to be an adjourned
debate, and what is to bo the result of it; for I take it for
granted there is not to be a division. (Cheers.) Divisions
are no longer fashionable. (Repeated cheers.) So far as I
could collect the meaning of the noble lord (Russell) on
Friday last, the object of his demonstration was to put the
liberal party of the country in an intelligible position as
opposed to her Majesty's government. That was a legiti-
mate and constitutional course on the part of the noble lord.
(Hear, hear.) If the noble lord the member for the City is
a Liberal—(laughter)---if he sympathises with the Liberal
party, I think the noble lord was justified in showing to the
country that there is a great Liberal party with which he is
connected, and in contrasting their opinions with those held
by the occupants of the Treasury bench. (Hear, hear.) But
I do not see how anything of this can apply to the noble
lord who has addressed us to-night, because I cannot per-
ceive that in sentiment, or feeling, or interest there is any-
thing in common between that noble lord and the great
'Liberai party. (Hear, hear.) I must take the discussion on
Friday night and the present discussion together, for it is
only from the combined observations made on both occa-
sions that I can understand the scope of these movements.
I understand that questions are soon to arise which are cal-
culated to test the character of the liberal opinions held by
the noble lord. The great Liberal party in this house are
in favour of vote by ballot. Are the noble lords the mem-
ber for the City of London and the member for Tiverton
in favour of that measure? (Hear. hear.) The great Libe-
ral party aro in favour of the total abolition of church-
rates. (Hear, hear.) Are her Majesty's late Government
in favour of that measure? (Hear, hear.) The great
Liberal party are in favour of the measure of the hon.
member for Surrey (Mr. L. King). Are her Majesty's late
Government in favour of the new Franchise Bill of that
hon. member? (Hear, hear.) All I know is that they op-
posed it on principle, and offered grave arguments to in-
fluence the opinion of the house in opposition to it. The
great Liberal party profess to be in favour of economy.
Were the late Government iu favour of economy ? (Hear,
hear.) It is my painful duty to know what has been done
in that respect by the late Government, and I must say
that amore extravagant, reckless, and profuse Government
I never knew. (Lou cheers.) The great Liberal petty are
in favour of the publicity of documents. Are the late Go-
vernment in favour of the publicity of documents of im-
portance? There never was a Government in this country
that exercised so much reserve in affairs of State as her
Majesty's late Government. The only charge against her
Majesty's present Government is that they produced a pub-
lic document—the only charge again-t us is that we pro-
duced this despatch ; but no ono could ever say of us that
we intercepted a letter. (Loud cheers.) There is ano her
subject on which the great liberal party haveshown great
interest—that is, the conduct of the executive Govern-
ment. They demand that the conduct of the executive
Government should be temperate and moderate. But what
has been the conduct of the late executive ? It is the first
Government that ever carried on a war without the sanc-
tion of Parliament, (Hear.) And if I look to the other
great branch of the executive—the exercise of patronage—
is it not notorious that their exercise of patronage has out-
raged all the sense and spirit of the country. (Cheers.)
What, then, is the lee of these manoeuvres—l will not Fay
of a cabal, for I will not suppose that any members of it sit
in this house—(laughter) - bat what I want to know is,
what is the meaning of all these operations • because, as far
as I can form an opioion, there is not the slightest bond of
connect:o a or sympathy between the noble lord the member
for Tiverton and his friends of the great Libetal party?
(Hear.) Upon every subject there is a total want of sym-
pathy, ancl a total diesimilarity between them as far as I
can judge. As far as lam concerned,: lam quite regard-
less whether, every time we are about to go into committee
of supply, clinet ministers or those who expect to be ca-
binet ministers rise to demand an explanation of the ob-
servations I may make to my honest constituents. The
proper place I sapposa for speaking on matters of state,
and announcing declarations of peace and war, is a carousel
in a club-room, to veich youinvita great officers, in which
Prime Ministers take a part, and announce amongst what
has been called "an inebriated assembly " though I do
not call it such that a great military expedition is to be
undertaken. (Cheers.) Although Ido not shrink from cri-
ticism ofeny speeches, and am prepared to meet any of
those who think fit to attack them, what, I ask, must the
country think. Nihon it sees the time so precious—
,(hear, hear)—when the public business is so backward,
when affairs in this house are ao urgent—what, I say,
must it think et. the cmduct of the noble lord and his co-
managers in these operations, in night after night pre-
, venting the progress of public business, and giving vent
to hear discce.tan led feelings at the position they n )w oc-
cupy? (Hear.) I would put it to the noble lord to contrast
his position at this moment with that which he occupied
three months ago, immediately after that great and unex-
pected blow which deprived his Sovereign and his country
of the services of such a Minister. (Laughter.) The noble
lord entered the house proud, and justly proud, of being
the chief of a great and overwhelming. opposition. How-
ever aelusive might have been the expect stion, the general
idea was that tine noble lord had such great power that,
though content to sit for a time in the cold sha ies of oppo-
sition, he could in an instant resume power and place, and
was really the arbiter of the destinies of the country.
(Hear, hear.) What has made the difference in the noble
lord's pres,ert, position and that which he occupied three
months ago ? I put in no claim for the conduct of the pre-
sent Government in that respect. I can only say, as I said
in the speech which has been made the subject of so much
criticism, that we sedulously, diligently, and devotedly at-
tempted to do our duty. (Hoar,) But I cannot suppose that
anything we have done has Prof uced this great change in
the position of an avowed position. It is the sense of the
country which lies proclaimed that the conduct of the noble
s,;ect. That is why I called there a "cabal." What is called
lord was not prompted by feelings which could win its re-
a cabal, whether they bein thishouse or in the other house
of Parliament, whether it meetin a private house or in one
devotedh
eis a body of mon who combine
ttogether—notirw isi to
on nd e
of a
el f faa toi rs
lo advocatecisutetnec,
a not to recommend by
e
great measures, calculated to
win the approval of a sympathising community, but who
band together, and club all their resources, their station,
nasences—for what? to upset
(cheer 3, and "oh, oh")
step, did not venture even to de-
clare their policy, and who the. eby announced that their
only great policy was place. (Qheers and "Oh.") It is
and thetheir
a. Governmenthaob,l l
iin abilities
t 1 ka n i of
varyingtthhae t ( ueene_
rhse great body of the p,ople of
ion at these manoeuvre .+ and
m thish
ai e country
s hin c induct,to e s whichoaond k
othn made
for et
her
Majesty's Government the
and honourable minds.
( Loud cheering ) If I wonted to confirm the
sympathy of all generous
government in power—lf a warred to give them a firmer
tenure of effice, I would beg of noble lords to continue
these attacks. (Hear, hear.) I should be delighted if,
night after night, they called on me in this manner to de-
fend the statement I made to n<y coestituents, not one
wont of which do I recall, and which I made with the
due thought that such a staterneat required. (Fleur.) I
should wish them to pursue this course, for I am quite
certain that; whatever differences of opinion there may be
in this house and in Engl mud between the great conserva-
tive and the great liberal parties, there is ono bond of union
between us, and that we are bothresolved in this, that not
only here but throughout the country we will not any
longer bo the tools or the victims of an obsolete oligarchy.
(Loud cheers.)
Sir G. GREY said that the right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had
complained that the pro-
ceeding taken by the noble lord the member for Tiverton

men opposite should feel some dissatisfaction with that
speech of my right hon. friend, for I believe it has ap-
pealed to the public sympathy, and has excited the public
feeling more than any speech which has been delivered
for a considerable period of time. The noble lord the
member for Tiverton, and the right hon. baronet the mem-
ber for Morpeth, have both alluded to it—and justly
alluded to it—as a most remarkable speech ; and I have
no doubt that they deeply regret the effect it has pro-
duced on the public mind. Bat while I wish to protest
against the waste of the public time, I am also anxious to
take this opportunity of protesting against what I must
consider the most unfair misrepresentation which has been
made of the language used by my right hon. friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer on last Friday night in reply
to the noble lord the member for London, as compared
with the language which he has employed this evening in
answer to the noble lord the member for Tiverton. I deny
that my right hon. friend is open to the imputation which
has been thrown out against him with great severity and
great injustice, of having held one language on Friday last
and another this evening, and of having on these two oc-
casions offered different explanations of that passage in
his address to his constituents which seems to have given
so much offence to hon. gentlemen opposite. I contend
that there is no difference either in the opinions or in the
language of my right hon. friend. My right hon. friend
has said this evening that he adheres to the statement
which he made at Slough, that when the present Govern-
ment acceded to office the continuance of peaceful rela-
tions betwi en France and England was a question not of
weeks or of days, but of hours. Now, I have no hesita-
tion in stating, from the knowledge which, as a minister of
the Crown, I have obtained of those relations—l have no
hesitation in broadly stating my belief that those words of
my right hon. friend were substantially correct. (Hear.)
It will not do for hon. gentlemen opposite, disappointed
in a party attack, to endeavour, in the bitterness of that
disappointment, to snatch a party advantage from the
speech of my right hon. friend. It will not do for them to
la y hold of a phrase and quibble upon a word. We all
know that it is a very common form of expression to say
that a thing is not a question of days but of hours ' • and
what is, in this instance, the fair and candid interpretation
of that phsase ? Why, it is that we succeeded to the ad-
ministration of public affairs under circumstances which
made war with France imminent. (Hear.) We do not
shrink from that statement. On the contrary, we chal-
lenge the noble lord opposite to deny it if he can. (Heat',
hear.) I appeal with confidence upon that point to
the language used by the noble lord himself. The
noble lord, in moving the Conspiracy Bill, told us in
plain language that the Government offered that measure
as an atonement to France for what had taken place in Eng-
land, and that if it were pot passed the alliance between
the two countries would be endangered. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord complained to-night of the reference made
on Friday last by my tight hon. friend to the answer he
gave himself to a question addressed to him by the hon.
member for Devizes (llr. D. Griffith). But the tone of
that answer was that members of that house should be cau-
tions as to the language which they held, and that the re-
lations between France and this country were in so critical
a position that an unguarded word might endanger the
alliance. (Hoar.) And again, the noble lord, in his ad-
dress to the house on the morning when ho met with that
defeat which led to his resignation of office, distinctly em-
ployed similar language, and stated in reply to my right
hon. friend the member for the University of Oxford—l
do not pretend to quote his exact words, but I believe I
am fairly stating the purport of his observations—the
noble lord stated that so critical was the condition of our
relations with France, that unless the bill was passed there
would be great danger of an interruption of our friendly
relations with that country. (Hear.) I find, too, that the
noble lord the late Foreign Secretary, in another place—in
language more guarded, I admit, but the same in substance
—expressed his conviction of the critical character of our
relations with our great neighbour and ally. I might also
appeal to the language used in the despatch sent to this
country from Paris by our ambassador, Lord Cowley, irn-
me,iiately after the division which overturned the Govern-
ment of the noble lord. In that despatch Lord Cowley re-
ferred to the irritated state of public feeling in France, to
the necessity of extreme caution in the management of the
relations between the two countries, and to the imminent
danger of an interruption of their friendly relations. (Iles r.)
I allude to this state of feeling without imputing the slight-
est blame to the Governments either of England or Franco.
The state of feeling iu both nations was at the moment of
the most dangerous character. Great irritation prevailed—
and I state the fact the more unhesitatingly becausel believe
that irritation wasat variance with the feeling of amity that
naturally exists between these two great and free nations.
The French are not aware of the state of our laws. They
found that a plot had been concocted in England, and
their indignation was naturally directed against this coun-
try ; but then a similar feeling was excited in England
when the noble lord came down to this house with the Con-
spiracy Bill, and when people here found the Government
bringing in at the dictation of a foreign power, a measure
to alter our criminal law. Irritation thus prevailed on
both sides, and it was when that irritation was at its
height that the change of government took place, and that
the present Ministry acceded to office; What was the line
of policy which we then felt ourselves compelled to adopt ?
Why, we found that we could not outrage the public feel-
ing of this country by persevering with that measure. We
were obliged to reverse the course which the late Govern-
ment had taken. We were aware that public feeling would
not tolerate legislation which, right or wrong, appeared to
them to proceed from foreign oictation. It then became
necessary that wo should intimate to France the policy we
were compelled to adopt ; and that is the period to which
my right hon. friend referred. There can be no doubt but
that the relations of the two counts ice were at that moment
of a most critical nature, and that the continuance of
peaceful relations between them was strictly, as my right
h us. friend stated, a question not of days but of hours. In
confirmation of that view, and in direct contradiction of
what fell from hen gentlemen opposite, I am enabled, and
I have obtained the necessary permission, to state that on
more th one occasion the late French ambassador to the
British Court, Count Persigny, did remonstrate on the
policy of this country, and did state in plain terms that if
that policy were not changed it would be impossible that
the friendly relations between the two countries could
be maintained. (Hear) Under these circumstances, is my
right ben. friend to be assailed for having taken credit to
her Majesty's Government—(hear, hear)—for having put
an end to these difficulties, which I have not overstated
by one single iota? (Hear, hoar.) But most cordially do
I agree with the statement made by my right hon. friend
that evening that this dangerous state of things could only
be put an end to by the greatest caution, the greatest for-
bearance, and the greatest temper on both sides; an 1 we
ought to recognise in the distinctest manner that judg-
ment, that sagacity, and that forbearance which were so
eminently displayed upon that occasion by our loyal and
true ally the Emperor of the French; and through which
that state of irritation I have described has been most
happily removed. I believe that, now that a better state-
of feeling exists, the people on bath sides of the Channel
are fully aware of the important truth that the prosperity
not only of the two nations, but the prosperity of the whole
civilised world, depends in a great degree on the mainte-
nance of their friendly relations. (Cheers) But I must say
I think we have great reason to complain of the exagge-
rated language used by the noble lord himself to-night.
The noble lord has been free to-night in hurling imputa-
tions against us. Now, I bag to tell the noble lord that he
was wholly inaccurate, as far as I remember, in his quota-
tion from a speech of Lord Derby's. He said that when
Lord Derby acceded to office, ho did justice to the satis-
factory condition in which he found this country was
placed ; and t,e3 noble lord evidently intended to draw a
broad contrast between the language of Lord Derby and
that of ley right hoe. friend the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. Now, Lord Derby did speak, no doubt, as he always
speaks, in the spirit of a high-winded gentleman. (Hear.)
He acceded to otllco under peculiar circumstances, and he
gave credit to his predecessors wherever he thought they
deserved credit. But what was the passage to which the
noble lord hes referred ? It eets a passage that did justice
to the condition in which he found our army. (Elear.) L )rd
Derby said that, considering the state of our foreign rela-
tions, he felt some anxiety with regard to the condition of
the army, and that he was happy to acknowledge that he
found it better thee he had expected, or, to use his own
words, that ho found it " numerically respectable." That
is the phrase which the noble lord the member for Tiverton
has twisted into an acknowledgment of the prosperous
state of England under his Government. But it appears
that, as regards the immediate point now at issue, Lord
Derby paid no compliment to his predecessors on the state
of our foreign relations. (Hear.) But Ido not wish to
continue to trespass on the indulgence of the house. I be-
lieve that this attack, founded on an accidental phrase in
au after-dinner speech, is too paltry a mode of carrying on
a political warfare to justify any further waste of the public
time. There is only one other point to which I will refer.
I will ask the house whether they think that the noble
lord is the man of all others who has a right to make this
complaint of harsh language on the part of his political
opponents I beg to tell the noble lord that I have not
forgotten, and I doubt whether any of those with whom I
have the honour to act have forgotten, the language in
which he thought fit to indulge cue year ago in an address
to the electors of Tiverton. (lear.) That was not an
after-dinner speech; it was not an oration delivered in a
moment of excitement— (hear, hear)—it- was a letter deli-
berately written in the retirement of his library ; and in
that letter the noble lord thought it becoming in him to
state that those who out-voted him on the China, question
were willing to make the degradation and humiliation of
their country a stepping-stone to office. (Loud cries of
" Hear.") The noble lord said this evening that some
portion of the language of my right hon, friend was a libel
on his political opponents. Now, I am not one of those
who like to use hard words in this house, and I think the
noble lord will admit that I am not in the habit of doing
so; but I tell the noble lord that I thought at the time,
and that I think still, this phrase was tin most libellous
and the most calumnious that was ever used by a public
man. (Hear, hear.) But when Parliament assembled we
did not into rupt the course of public business by complain-
ing of that charge made by the noble lord. It is true that
my noble friend at present at the head of the Foreiem-
office wrote a very iiidignant rebuke of that insult, but on
atbtehaltastthme nobleen wbr had
da
a anyf te r
the meeting of Parliament we did not think it deserving
lo
o
of our notice. It appears mes
having used that language
right to m
sed ons u coe dewn to this house and to complain of the
expressi by ray right hon. friend. I defy the noble
lord, if he searches the speeches of my right lion, friend
from one end to the other; to find in it anything half so
offensive and so unjustifiable as that charge. (Hear.) I
will not further occupy the time of the house. I hope this
subject will now be allowed to drop. I trust that after the
time that has been already wasted in this party struggle--
this mere scramble for place, we shall be allowed to proceed
with the public business. I think we have this day re-
ceived intelligence which ought to read us a lesson on the
duty of addressing ourselves to the consideration of public
affairs, instead of prolonging the contests of party. We
have this day received news from India which may well
snake us anxione—l do not say which ought to make us
despond—God forbid ! but which no reflecting man can
read without feeling that the time has come when the Go-
vernment of this country ought to direct its undivided at-
tention to the state of public affairs. (Hear, hear) Let me
say further, that I believe there is not a heart in England
that does not ache at the present tidings from India. We
have just lost one of the noblest spirits—one of the bravest
men that ever did honour to any country. (Loud cries of
" Hear, hear.") I think thatfthe feelings which such an
event roust awaken ought to create in us all a disinclination
to waste our time in mere party conflicts. If we are not
country
duties o
fb oura carried
office,
an s b
we
worthy to carry on the government of the country tell us
so at once and tell us so distinctly. (Cheers.) We can
then understand your course. But let the business of the
these factious struggles • or if you are not prepared to allow
us to performs the functions of a government, bring our
to the test of a deli-
'
„
right to the position which we occupye , ninterrupteddischnre theby
bsrete decision of the Commons of England. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL could not agree in the opinion that
eso smhaelbloisilyo let o
t us
those explanations were a waste of time, and the speech of

had been an unfair and improper one. But ha (Sir G.
Groy) contended that this was a course which the noble

lord, as head of the late Government, felt to be one which
it was his duty to take. The charges brought by that
right hon. gentleman were most rufouaded, •an'l such as
ought to have been made. The right hon. gentleman had
asked how often were these explanations to be asked ? lie
(S:r G. Grey) would ask how often was that right hon.
gentleman to give different and coatradictory explanations
mple constituents
proceeded to
? road(
of a speech ho ought never to have made to his honest and
wimple The right hon. gen-
tleman from the speech at
Aylesbury, on the imminency of war with France. On
a previous occasion, when explanations were asked by the
ea
ther passagehear)
noble lord the member for the city of London, the right
bon. gentleman bad justified what he had stated on the
ground of the answer given by tte noble lord at the head
of the Government forty-eight hGurs before he left office,
and on the circumstance of the French Minister having
left the country. Now, however, the right hon. gentleman
had said that when the late Government had left office
there w s no risk whatever of war. (Sear, hear.) He trusted
th it this explanation would go down to the constituents of
the right honourable gentleman at Aylesbury. With re-
spect to India, ho regretted to hear the right hon. gentle-
man repeat his charges against Lerd Canning and the late
Government, that it was one of confiscation and massacre,
and this was the more remarkable as the right hon. gentle-
man hal stated on a former occasion that the Government
had sent a telegram to Lord Canning assuring him that
the noble lord enjoyed the full confidence of her Majesty's
Government. (Hear, hear.) Ile cordially trusted that
the noble lord the Governor-General would rise superior to
p,reonnl considerations, and not be influenced in his future
conduct by the personal insults which had been heaped
upon him by her Majesty's Government. (Hear, hoar.)
fie trusted that what had taken place would afford a use-
ful lesson to the right hon, gentleman, and induce him to
have a: greater regard to the dignity of the office which he
had the honour of holding. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. YAKING TON said—l think the house will be of
opinion that the right hon. gentleman who has just spoken
has endeavoured to make up by vehemence of manner fur
that lack of argument which has distinguished his address.

(Hear, hoar.) But Ido not rise so much to offer a reply

to the right hon. gentleman, as to enter my protest against

what appears to me to be a most unpardonable waste of

the pubic time. (Hear, hear.) After having already
lost a whole week in that faction fight which terminated
in a manner that afforded another remarkable instance of
the rapidity of the descant from the sublime to • the
ridiculous, honourable gentlemen opposite are now en-

deavouring to extract some p•,rty advantage from attack

Ong the speech which was delivered on a recent occasion
by my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the
_ _

,he right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer

Exvhoquer. Now, lam not surprised that bon, gentle-

was onelwhichimperatively called for explanation before
the house proceeded to vote those estimates for the current

year, which were usually regarded as votes of confidence in
the Ministry of the day. The statements made in that
speech very natusally provoked discussion, for if founded
on misstatements, which he considered they were, they
ought to be fairly explained. The explanation which had
now been given was, that the risk of war was not incurred
during the time the late Government was in power, but
after the time when the present Government acceded to
office. This most materially affected the nature of the
statement made in the speech at Aylesbury. (Hear, hear.)
Ho believed that the Emperor of the French, when
the state of the law was fairly explained to him respect-
ing the punishment of assassination, with his usual good
sense expressed himself satisfied with the assurance that
the Government would endeavour to give effect to the
existing law. (Hear, hoar.) Where, he would ask, was
this cabal? The right hon. gentleman had said that it
was not in that house ; where then was it ? Upon this
subject ho should like to have had some information, but
none he had given to the house. With respect to the vote
of want of confidence, which the right hon. gentleman the
First Lord of the Admiralty had suggested should be
brought forward, he believed that it was the opinion of
the noble lord the member of Tiverton that it would not
be to the interest of the Liberal party that the attempt
should be made at once to remove the present Government
from office. He did not think that the late proceedings
on the proclamation of Lord Ellenborough was a good party
move, but the steps which were taken with reference to
it, were imperatively called for, as he considered an "abo-
minably bad despatch." (Hear.) He should not be sur-
prised if Government should now say that it was too late
to go on with the India Bill this session. If that was the
intention of the Government he hoped the Government
would say at once. He must say that this did not give
him bench confidence in the Conservative character of the
Government. He was not very impatient about reform—
(hear, hear)—because he felt that we were sure of obtain-
ing sooner or later whatever reforms the people were de-
termined to have—(hear, hear)—but when ho found this
CoLservative Government going by fits and starts he was
as much puzzled and alarmed as if he should see the
Speaker in his great State coach when on the way to attend
her Majesty at Buckingham Palace, suddenly start off in
the contrary direction. (A laugh.) Such was his impres-
sion as to this Conservative Government. (Hear.) The
original proposal of Government as too the fi vo members
for towns in the Indian council was hardly even a Radical
measure, it approached communism—(hear, hear)— and
when he saw the Chancellor of the Exchequer departing
so much from all precedent and from the dignity of his
office, as he had done in his late speech, he was alarmed
not lest Government should be too Conservative, but lest,
by their recklessness, they should imperil the security of
the State (hoar, hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE.—The speeches we have heard from
the noble lord the member for Tiverton and the noble lord
the member for London remind one forcibly of the relation
between Castor and Pollux. The one rose when the other
set. (A laugh.) The conjunction would appear to be an
ominous one. It was thought last week that the noble
lord the member for Tiverton had gone into the country
to repose upon his Parliamentary laurels; but it seems
that he temporarily disappeared from among us only that
he might favour us with the results of his illustrious re-
tirement. The, noble lord the member for London is
afflicted with apprehension as to the policy of the present
Ministry. He thinks it moves sometimes too fast, at
other times too slow, and if it would only maintain the
happy medium of " old constitutional Whiggery" no
doubt it would receive the noble lord's approving smile.
(A. laugh.) The noble lord cannot be accused of having
gone too fast, because he did not go at all (laughter) ; and
on several questions of great public interest his puny
efforts at legislation have, to use his own expression, left
a legacy of mischief behind them which .it would be a
difficult task for a body of sensible men to rectify. (Hear,
hear.) My right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admi.
ralty has truly said that if you think the great interests
of the country are in jeopardy under an incompetent Go-
vernment, you can bring forward a motion to displace
them, and restore the noble lord the member for Tiverton
to that position in which he so lately secured the good
opinion of this house, and, what is better, the universal
approbation of the country. (A. laugh.) The noble lord
thelneueber for London now says, it is shocking that such
a despatch as that•of Lord Ellenborough should have been
made public, but that the error had been atoned for by
the resignation of that noble earl, and that there the
matter might have been allowed to drop. If that is the
noble lord's opinion certainly he did not carry it out in
the late debate.
Lord J. RUSSELL.—I did not say that that was my
opinion, but that it was the opinion of some.
Hr. WHITESIDE.—I had thought that I might class
the noble lord himself in his dignified category of "some "
—(a laugh)—but certainly after Lord Ellenborough's resig-
nation the adverse motion was persevered with, and its
advocates would have pressed it to a conclusion if they
hod net trembled in their skins at its impending result.
(Laughter.) From that result her Majesty's Government
had not shrunk, and the withdrawal of the resolution cer-
tainly did not take place at their instance. I think my
right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was per-
fectly justified in the expression which he used relative to
the support rendered to the Government on that occasion
by gentlemen who do not agree with its general principles,
and I cannot regard the remarks of the noble lord the mem-
ber for Tiverton on this point as characterised by the best
taste. Every man who can appreciate sound argument
and high eloquence must appreciate the powerful address
of the right hon. member for Carlisle, the hon, and learned
member for Sheffield, and the hon. member for Birming-
ham. But I ask the noble lord, laying aside forms and
phrases, and looking for a moment at matters of substance,
to listen to a passage from the letter of the Calcutta cor-
respondent of the Times, from which he will be able to
judge whether, after all, the views contained in Lord
.Ellenborough's despatch were very far wrong :
" I presume the Oude proclamation reached you some
time since. Lest it should not, I enclose it here. The pro-
clamation has not been withdrawn or softened, but Hr.
Montgomery (our Commissioner in Oude) has received
carte blanece to deal with each case as he chooses."
What does Mr. Montgomery do ? He sets aside your con-
fiscatory proclamation, and his course is to compound with
the native aristecrecy. That is exactly the coutrary of our
proclamation. (" No y
, no," and " Yes.") I say " Yes," because your argument was this :—" We don't mean to
deal with the village proprietors, but with the great nobles
and ,the aristocracy." And how does this man of sense,
who is, I believe, a countryman of mine, proceed? (A. laugh.) He compounds with the aristocracy, and here is
the result :
" His course is to compound with the aristocracy, and
the landholders, finding that the chief gives them their
property, are coming to bins fast."
So that if he had acted on your proclamation, we can easily
conjecture the result. He followed the policy suggested by
Lord Ellenborough, and I am sure there is too much justice in
this house to condemn a statesman for words, if in substance
he was right. The letter from which I have quoted proceeds :
There is, however, little hope of the pacification of Oude
for some months. We hold on y the city, and that we are
compelled to fortify again. I would only mention that the
North-West officials, so long devoted to the village system,
aro everywhere recanting their opinions. They admit that the
native aristocracy is essential to our own securiW-that the
zernincraree system has preserved Bengal, and that without
permitting landholders to grow permanent peace is almost
impossible.
(Cheers.) That was the argument of Lord Ellenborough's de-
spatch, and now it has received its confirmation. With regard
to the case of the Cagliari, I have read the correspondence of
December last, which the right hon, member for Oxford Uni-
versity rightly said gave Sardinia a fair claim to call upon
England to befriend her. If hon. gentleman will have the
curiosity to look into the legal opinions and the facts stated
in the papers on the table, they will
see that the despatch in
question is unlike all the correspondence net precedes it, and
that it must have been written by some other person than the
individual from whom all the previous conimunicatio is pro-
ceeded. I allude to the despatch which asks whether Sar-
dinia will adopt a different course from that which she had
hitherto pursued ; and the remarks I have made is a fair cri-
ticism arising upon the document itself, The noble lord the
member f r ton asks how my right hon. friend came to
make such a speech aft. r dinner. Did the noble lord himself
never make an after-dinner speech ? (A laugh.) It cannot be
forgotten that, on the fith November last, he made a speech
at the Mansioa-house, in which he challenged France and the
whole of Europe to mortal combat—(laughter) declaring
that if any foreign nation thought we were not ready for battle
because our troops had been sent to incite, he begged to
assure them they were in error, fir he was quite prepared to
engage in conflict with them. Aml so the noble lord was. (A
laugh.) If ever a Minister escaped f om half-a-dozen votes of
censure'which ought to have been pronounced upon him, it was
the noble lord. The noble lord says he is familiar with foreign
affairs. Of course we can only be guided by the official
documents laid before us. But how the Minister who en-
dorsed the conduct of Lord Clarendon in signing at the Pat is
Conferences the protocol directed against the freedom of the
Belgian press should have escaped the indignant censure of a
British Barliament has always filled me with amazement.
(Hear, hear ) The noble lord said that the circumstances in
which Lord Canning was placed ought to have been taken
into account, inasmuch as ho had only 400 men to hold the
country between Calcutta and Dinapore. No doubt this
ought to be taken into accouat ; but who left Lord Canning
iu that defenceless state ? Why, the Government of the noble
lord, which directed our troops to carry on a war with Persia,
the object of which nobody ever understood—not even the
noble lord Mins° f (A laugh) The effect of the China war,
of which the noble lord boasts so much, was to leave Calcutta
without the protection of a siuglo ship. When Mr. Layard
asked for an explanation of the grounds on which the Persian
war was undertaken; the noble lord told us something about
an epistle from the Shah which was not exactly couched in
the style of the " Polite Letter Writer," and he managed,
with his usual adroitness, to turn the laugh upon his inter -
rogator, but he never condescended to give the house any in-
telligible explanation of the origin of that war, (Hear, hear,)
The consequence was. that that war, like every other war
enteredluto without justice, entailed not only the loss of
blood and tie isure upon this country, but pro luccd serious
troubles and dangers in otherparts of our einpire The noble
lord boasts in a triumphant manner of the condLion in which
he left the affairs of the country when lie quitted office ; but
when he spoke in so triumphant a tone he seemed to forget he
was driven front office —that he had incurred the censure and
disapproval of this house because lie had not replied to a de-
spatch which implied that assassination w.s favoured in this
country, but, on the contrary, accepted the insult. (Hear,) I
was myself a party to the transaction which then took place. I
heard the defence of the noble lord, and I am bound to say
that, after the vote of censure which this house passed, it
does not become the noble lord to boast of the skill and suc-
cess with weichhe conducted the affairs of the nation with
regard to France. Such a boast is a reflection on the wisdom
attic, House of Commons. (Hear.) I must say Ido not think
the noble lord hal much improved the positLn taken up on
Friday night by the noble lord the member for the City of
London, and I think that if the noble lord and his friends
opposite can do no better than they have done in makiag this
attack, their wiser course would be to give us some of those
great
ng and brilliant measuresveare
s which they are always promising
to bri in, but which i;o Echlora permitted to see, and
leave the house to judge of the value of their measures when
they are brought forward, (Cheers.)
Mr. J. A. KINGLAKE said it was en the 15th Feb., a fort-
night before the last Government 1 ft office, that Watt was
released f ow prison, and before that Government left office
Lord Clarendon had written a letter pressing for. Watt's libe-
ration on the ground that his return to Eneland would favour
his mental health. When Watt was sent
home it was after
the lre eat Government came into power, but in terms that
followed the despatch of Lord Clarendon, showing that it was
owir•g to that despatch, He was astonished that Government
claimed the merit of the liberation of those men which had
rather been in spite of Government. ,
Mr. FITZGERALD could well understand that the lion.
gentleman who had taken great interest in the question
should deny merit to the Government and take credit to
himself. (Heae, hear.) But a slight consideration would show
that it was owing to the exertions of the present Government
that the men were released.
Mr. LINDSAY found a report in the papers that certain
American ships had been fired on by British cruisers, and
that the British officer had boarded twelve American and one
Spanish vessel in a•_Cubau port, and demanded an examina-
tion of their papers, The port was not a small creek, but a