The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-27 00:00:00

nohe barn tied done that eiel•t, to make a statem en
front win .h the public migtv. uederetaud that ne peculiar
blame attached to hire (the illustrious duke) as the head
of the army, and perhaps therefore considered responsi-
ble for the barrack accommodation of the conntry.
(Hear.) But ie making that statement nothing could
be further from his intereien than to refirct upon the
noble barr). Oa the contrary, he believed that no man
could have been mere anxious than the noble baron for
the improvement of the condition of the soldier. He be-
lieved it would I.e. found that the noble baron had done
more in the way
of berrac't icripros ems ,t than any pre-
vious Secretary of State during a similar period. (Heer.)
fn eayiee that, however, he .lid hot intend any dime-
for the truth was
tehpaecttintoththise
they had been
rnecs,pbelectl,orads's preinmdaenoyessootrhse;rs,
progressing in the spirit of the age; and the chances
er rbably were, that in a few years they would have
lr2eli demands, and succeeding Secretaries of State
would be called upon to fled ways and means for many
services which at the present moment were not thought
of. Our ancestors had not intentionally neglected the
condition of our soldiers ; but while everything had
pro 'reseed to the extent it had, it would have been mon-
strous to have left the a idler in the condition he was.
(Hear,) He (the illustrious duke) had been referred to
In his two capacities, as colonel of the Guards and as the
head of the army. His noble friend had taken away any
necessity he might have bad for making any defence of
his conduct as colonel of the Guards. As the noble lord
had so fairly stated, the colonel cf the Guards had no
more power to interfere with the state of the barracks
than any other colonel ; and it would be a most im-
proper thing it he had. (Hear, hear.) The situation of
colonel of the Guards was a moet honourable one, but it
was exactly as that of any other colonel ; and it would
have a moot adichievocis effect upon the army if it was
thought that he bad any spec:al powers. (Hear.) In the
communications which had taken place betvreen the
noble baron and himself, as head of the army, they had
often agreed that many things would be desirable, but
tLey would have placed the Government of the country
in a very false position it they bad pressed for those
things without reference to the means at their disposal.
(Hear.) There was a great difference between intro-
ducing estimates and fi Kling ways and means. One
was the simplest process in the world ; but it was very
difficult to persuade the country to agree to an increased
amount of taxation. (Hear.) He (the illustrious duke)
was very glad that the subject bad been brought for-
ward, because exciting the public interest by discussion
aas the only mode in which they could hope to ob
lain additional means for carrying out the wished-for
improvements With respect to barracks for the Guards,
the noble lord had truly observed that the difficulty was
in finding s'tes. The cost of the barracks was as nothing
compared with that of the land. Some portion of the
want of accommodation had been caused by the intro-
duction of libraries, rea liog-roome, washing-rooms, and
the like. 01 course, unless new rooms were provided,
they must b 3 taken from the barrack accommodation.
Of course, however, it was possible, new rooms were
provided ; but even at the present time the introduction
of these libraries had diminished the amount of barrack
accommodation. (Hear.) Again, if they introduced as
improvement in one barrack, they must extend it to all;
because when the soldier found out its value, and he
very soon would field it out, he would ask to have it in
every place at which be was stationed. This led to an
enormous expense; and it was only by spreading it over
a certain number of years that they could expect to per-
fect the plan. (Hear.) With regard to the teturns moved
for by his noble friend, he should like them to include
the estimates of the local authorities, which were the
documents upon which the estimates of the Government
were based. Formerly they were sent to the Ordnance-
office without passing through the hands of the Com-
mander-in-Chief ; but since the new Secretaryship of
State had been established it had been arranged that
they should go first to the Commander-in-Chief, and
should then be handed by him to the Government.
These original estimates `would give the actual wants
of the army more fully than any public document
would do ; they would show the mode in which diffe-
rent items of improvement were valued by the Govern.
meat. The demands made upon them were always for very
much larger sums than the Government placed in its esti-
IT Ives ; and some portion of them were necessarily post-
p med. What these should be was determined not by the
military authorities, but by the military authorities in
conjunction with the Secretary of State. (Hear.) In
conclusion, he (the illustrious duke) had only to say that
be cordially approved of the returns with the addition he
had suggested. They would show that his noble friend
bad no been at all remiss ,in the way in which he bad
applied the resources of the country to the improvement
of barracks. (Cheers.)
The Earl of CARDIGAN had had many opportunities
of inspecting barracks in various parts of the kingdom,
and ho must say that the opinion which prevailed with
regard to the discomforts endured by the troops was an
exaggerated one. Great improvements had already been
introduced. The rooms were less crowded, and married
couples were no longer allowed to occupy the same
apartments as unmarried men. (Hear.) The idea which
had of late become common that soldiers had nothing to
eat but boiled beef was altogether erroneous ; for in most
regiments the men had baked meat and potatoes three or
four times a week. (Hear.) He could not say that he
approved of the new regulation with regard to canteens.
In all well regulaled regiments the rule was to prohibit
spirit-drinking in the canteen until the afternoon ; and
no good would accrue frornAriving the men out of the
barracks to public-houses. (Hear.) With regard to night
duty, he would remind their lordships that men enlisted
to perform all military services, and amongst those that
of standing sentry was the first. (Hear.)
The Duke of SOMERSET hoped the Government
would not be terrified by considerations of expense from
giving the subject of barrack accommodation their moat
serious attention, because he thought there were many
improvements which might be effected without materi-
ally increasing the burden upon the estimates. At the
same time it hardly became them to grudge the cost of
providing the soldier with decent accommodation, when
they had spent two millions sterling upon the Houses of
Parliament, and when they had filled Westminster-hall
with deigns for new public offices, which would cost
several millions more. The other day he happened to
be at the Welliogton Barracks, which were considered
a model. It was three o'clock in the afternoon, and the
sleeping rooms ought to have been tolerably fresh ; bat
the eir was so foul that he could not stay in it. He was
told that he had no idea how he should have found it if
he had come iu the morning. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY was sore their lordships would
not regret the time they had spent in listening to the
speeches of the noble lord and the illustrious duke. It
was well the country should know that the couse which
had been pursued with regard to the improvement of
the sanitary, moral, and social condition of the soldier
had not been that which many persons had hastily and
rashly assumed. If any one would compare any gentle.
man's country house at the present time with what it
used to be 30 or 40 years ago, he would understand
how great had been the increase which had taken place
' in the number of the comforts and conveniences of life.
It was not that the corrforts of the soldier had not lat.
a
lat-
terly been increased, but that increase was now looked
from a different point of view. There was an earnest
determination on all hands to look carefully into this
most important subject, namely, the social condition of
the army; but they must recollect that everything
could not be done at once. One of the last act of the
noble baron opposite had been to appoint four sab-com-
mittees, at the head of one of which was a right hon.
gentleman to whose exertions the army owed much,
namely, Mr. Sidney Herbert ; and her Majesty's Go-
vernment were waiting for the reports of those sub-
committees as to the best manner of carrying out the
recommendations of the sanitary commissioners. In the
meantime the committees were themselves empowered
to expend a small sum in the removal of Borne of the most
glaring defects. (Hear, hear.) When the Government
received their reports, they would not hesitate to take
steps for carrying them out, and they would not shrink
from making the necessary application, to Parliament.
He deeply regretted to notice the tone of the remarks
which had fallen from the noble duke opposite. He (Lord
Derby) was not prepared to defend the expenditure on
the Houses of Parliament which had taken place, but it
was hardly true to say that the reason army improve-
ments were delayed was the enormous waste of money
on public buildings. In 1852 he was very near applying
to Parliament for funds for a new Foreign-office, but
from that time to this nothing had been done ; and
the noble earl opposite (Lord Clarendon) had never en-
tered the old building without alarm, or quitted it with-
out congratulating himself upon his safety. (Laughter.
With regard to the papers that were moved for, he was
not prepared on the part of the Government to offer any
objection to them. With regard to the papers last men-
tioned in the notice, viz., the correspondence within the
last ten years between different departments of the Gc-
vernment, he should preferthattheyshould not be moved
for, especially as, from the manner in which the motion
was worded, it implied that suggestions for the welfare
of the troops had been disregarded. Now, there was no
Idoubt that there were many things which were desirable, .
but at the same time economy must be looked to to
some extent. No doubt financial difficulties had pressed
upon the department, which had caused some of the pro•
jects to be abandoned. He did not think there was any
objection on the part of either of the departments to the
production of these papers, but he thought, as this ()or-
respsndence went back for so long a period, and partook
necessarily to some extent of a private character, that it
would place the departments in an invidious position if
the correspondence were produced.
Lord PANMURE said, with regard to canteens, he
could only say he did not express his own opinions
merely, but the opinions which were expressed by the
committee. In some regiments pains were taken to close
the canteens at a certain hour, but in many regiments
that was not done. It had been said that the late Go-
vernment were willing enough to expend a million and a
half over public offices, but they were not willing to
spend a comparatively small sum in the erection and al-
of
icaotueldd saysopnelnydi
ng tahamtitlhlieonlaatenGd oa-
tveerrantmi oenn ot fnbeavrerra celco
ns .
half in public offices. Not only had the erection of addi•
tional offices become necessary, but it was a matter of
economy to erect them. A vast expense was immured
every year in the hire of buildings in which to con-
ductdea the public business, and this year they
i in the
large saving by enlarging the Ordnanci_e;soiffi.
had prevented the necessity of hiring
Pauli:unapt
neighbourhood of that office in Pall-Ina
sum of 40,9001.
bad for the last three years furnishedkin order that they
for the enlargement of barracks, in a
f soldiers' wiv la 3
might no longer have the exhibition buildings
Inwahioh
Bleeping in the same room with
was
now
obviated, He
other soldiers, and he
believed the necessity cf that
but as to the first two there could be no objec-
quite agreed with the Earl of Derby as to the latter re.
turn ;
tion.

Lord DE ROS observed that it was of the greatest
importance that the guard rooms should be made com-
fortable and healthy for the men, and hi hollered that