The Sun.
London, England, 1804-04-20 00:00:00

tras tepidSented to be under the necessity of accept-
siofthe services of 10,000 Irish Militia.
The ,Duke of AVO#FOLK,4isapproved of the pre.
scra measure, oni.the,same principk that he had op.
posit' a.similaroffer of service, from the Militia of
this Country in, the year 1798.. considered the
Militia as the most constitutional, nay as the only
constituttonal.Army of the Country, and he thought
the-present-an. an unconstitutional mode of employing,
their services. It wastone of the many had mea-
sures which the present-Ministry had received in a
legacy from their predecessors in..office. He.could
by no means agree with the Noble Marquis (HEAD-
, Foxr) as to the encomium pAssed on the late. Mini.
ster, Mr. PITT, who had loaded the-fcingdoni with
lan immense load of Debt-and Taxes, and whose
return to power he should consider as the greatest
I misfortune the Country could experience.

The Earl. of LIMERICK supoorted the Bill, and
retorted with.much force.the argument advanced by
a Noble Earl, that the pradice of volunteering tend-
ed to countenance that must dangerous of all prin.
ciples to a free Government, the principle of deli-
beration by armed bodies. He was sure when the
Noble Lord,had made that observation, that the ex-
traordinary resolutions enteredinto,by a number of
'Militia Colonels at the Thatched House, in which
the Noble Earl bore so conspicuous a part, did not
offer themselves to his recolleCtion. He could see
no difference between deliberation by CoMmanders
and deliberation by Common Soldiers. The Bill had
his .concurrence, because it 'would promoto that
which was the earnest wish of his beast, the full
political ideotity of both parts of_the.kingdom.
Lord CARLETON readily admitted, that such
was the.state of defence in which this part of the
United Kingdom was.placed, that there did-nut exist
any absolute necessity for the tranfer of 10,900
Militia from Ireland. Yet he was decidedly of
opinion, that' when a voluntary offer.of service was
made, like that which had 'occurred in the present
instance, it should not be tejetted. It would, in
fad, materially tend •to the consolidation of the Aft
of Union, by shewing the mutual confidence with
Which different parts of the same Empire were ani.
mated. With respell to the observations which hall
fallen from a Noble- Lord, on the correspondence
that had passed between two. Noble Lords in Ire-
land, one of whom filled a most important office, he
had merely to remark, that such cononcilts were
warranted by the incidental mention of the corre-
spondence, since it was not fairly
,befere their Lord-
ships, and could not be made the .ground-work.of a
charge.
Lord Bon.tisoboti explained. •
The LORI} CHANCELLOR. felt himself pecu.
flatly called upon to address a few words to their
Lordships, in consequence of the allusion which had
been made to the condud of a Noble-Friend of hiS
in Ireland, as mentioned in the correspondence which
bad been noticed. The charader of that Noble
Laid, with whom it was one of the greatest plea;
sures of his life to live on terms
.of, the stridest„in-
timacy, stood as high for honour and integrity as—
any other in the 'United- Kingdom ;and whatever
observations the correspondence might have given
rise to, he was confident that there was nothing in
any of the circumstances which could in theslightest
degree contribute to injure the distinguished repu.
tation his Noble Friend was universally acknow.
'edged to possess. It was, he could not ayoid.say,
ing, one of .the characteristics of_the times, that
.a
correspondence which in former instances could not,
unless stolen from the pocket of dither of the Noble
Lords,.have found its- way into the world, should
now be made public as a matter of course. It' was
also extraordinary, that a chargoshoUld be prefer-
red againit his Noble Friend, upon grounds which
were clearly surreptitious, and .which could not,
with any propriety or consistency, furnish a stibjed
of censure or comment in that House, since they
could not be brought forward as- the basis of a Motion
for an Address to His Majesty.. He had thought it
incumbent upon him, since the topic had been intro.
duced, to say these few words in vindication of his
Noble Friend, who, if he had erred, must have er-
red only from a deep and honest conviction that his
exertions and advice would produce the most bene-
ficial effects in that Country where he had the
honour to fill a very high situation under the Go-
vernment. As to the sentiments which had been
imputed to his Noble Friend, it was Sufficient to.
state, that he had been here the best ft lend to those
very men whom he was now accused of persecuting ;
and that in all the measures which had been adopt-
ed of late years for their relief and toleration, lie had
himself been personally and W,aroily engaged in the
passing of the different Bills, which they conceived
so intimately connected with their happiness and
interests. With regard' to the Bill before the
House, he did not see it in the same objectionable
point of view in which it appeared to present itself
to some other Noble Lords. He should not for a
moment hesitate to say, that the principle of an
armed body deliberating was improper' and Uncoil,
stitutional ; but it was at the same time to be un.
derstood, that the power of deliberating might be
occasionally exercised by, attned bodies, when -it.
could alone arise from, and be regulated by, the
force and urgency of peculiar and extraordinary Cir-
cumstances. His Lordship' having considered the
operation of the Bill, as essentially connected with
the safety and welfare of the two Countries, con-
' eluded with saying, that it, should have his cordial
support.
Earl C 4RNARVON defended the former Mi.
litia Establishment, which, by late alterations, pro-
visionS, and ModificatiOns, had dwindled into a i;ys-
tem he could no longer support. He had been the
zealous friend of the „Militia in a true constitutional
view ; but when he considered the many embar-
rassments, clogs, and difficulties, which it every day
experienced, he was called upon to declare that it
had no longer his earnest support. • Having; reca-
pitulated several of the arguments which had been
used witliresped to the detriments arising to the
Militia .Establishment, from novel modes of ailing,
and the Adoption of crude and hasty measures, he
said he should vote against the Bill.
Lord AUCKLAND expressed his Serprize, that,
the opposition to the Bill should. chiefly originate
from those: Noble Peers who had, repeatedly objected
-to His Majesty's Ministers;.that they had not in
'readiness for the defence and safety of the Country..
force of a disposable nature sufficiently large. The

opposition was therefore the mare ex.traortrmary,
while they blamed Ministers for not having in-
creased the disposable force, they denied to them, :"
the same breath, the power of that kind of force, b)
refusing their assent to a Bill, professedly dire.etea
to the accomplishment of an ohjet admitted on all
hands to be so wise and salutary. No man could
deny'- the wisdom and policy of immediately wig'
mentioa the disposable Focce of thia_contrya-mom
particularly when he looked i-at the avretched
of the Continent. . Yet out of that wretched state
,some_.hopes ,were .natt rally-excited.
the nature of
.tnen:or of, things, :that ;the War calla,
last for any lorsg time,- and:in 'that opinion be-Wag.
justified by the atiswerS,:given,hy-she Repraientativeg
of the differenr.Powers
_to :the Official Commoni'
cation made 'to, them of _the late lying correspond•
ence, and :the fabricated Plot. It was impOs-
sible that ' a Government . which -was•-;-founded
regicide, which: was raised arid. exalted by. 40°,4
and: poison, and ,which was - supported' by itia"
night murders .and assassinations, ishould long
continue to be guided- ,by ;hand _ stained with
the blood of innocent arid rdyal "viEtims. M
to the benefits likely to result from the Bill before
their Lordships, there_could-he -but-one-opirtione--ri
From-their residence here, the Itish Militto
acquire,improveme,nts and habits of industry, vihk:
could not fail to. beprodueliVe of real advantag"
when they returned- to their' own Country.; and 25'
to any diminution of the Militia in Ireland, bYha,
transfer of Ten `Thousand .to England, he thonAl
that could form no-ground-of opposition to the m.„;
since it was well known, such 'wars the attachn'e-ri
of the People.of that Country to the Noblemen a%
Gentlemen, that the number would be replaced
In
very short time by a new levy.
Lord.H.aIRRQUIBY thought the Bill objeaiell.•
able, because it .went to deprive Ireland of what
most wanted for her
.own proteftion, a strong e6CII;
ent force ;' while the principle of reciprocity, lw:ta
regard -to the Set-vices of -kith Militias, -weni',l7l,
nothing in the present case, as to the disposaim
Force; for
.by substituting ten 'thousand 'Men 7e
the wise numbet taken away, there was no incteas..
whatever.
• The Marquis of SLIGO praised the condo& of ti.c,.
English Militia ,in Ireland, and was convinced, tha`
the principle of-reciprocal service would contrihnl
inco toinacovire.icirdyatH.itoeiAannisii.,Rnoooeffiwiatthlßledyieu.,ge:minepieeold,anin.B eo.
explained.
improvementpf:osed hi
.The Duke ,of. MaNTROSE, as le r
.enemy 50 04.
delibera
mst
inimical to the Bill.'
-Earl WESTMORLAND- entered:at some length
into a variety of considerations and compariso.nst tt),.
spewthe important .bernelits which the measure ila,a"
likely.to produce;in the security and welfare 01°c
Empire at *large; • When he 45oikerl:-stt the-pieset
Bill, which went to enable His Maj-esty to aCCqe
the voluntary offers of service made,bypart of t-
t.
MO Militia, he confessed he could not separateLi,'
from the Bill by which the same Militia was to
coca
augmented. In this connefied point *Of view it "9040:1
not be denied, that a disposable force was give"tet
Government both in this Country and in lOW
and he should therefore vote for the Bill.
Lord DARNLEY, at considerable lengthal:l7
the Bill.
,The Earl of EG REAM:ONT said, that a-t, rt to
he had not for a considerable time had ooca3'-°-scat
addres. their Lordships, yet he conceived the Plc'
ac...
measure so novel,- and so objeflionable on nonft,iia
counts, that he thought it his duty _to make
avowal of his disapprobation,of it.
Lor;I CREN:VIILLE blamed-Ministers for.
submitting, in a fair and.inanli„tritide, to the COns,t,
deration of Parliament, the-principle of reciproc,V,
between the Miiit E stablishments of both Clot
tries, if such was their intention when 0' rc
countenanced the present measure. But they sto
not, perhaps, aware- that the question had het!' of
some measure already decided. By the artideofto
the Union with *lda; d, it was deterrnirleat °oaf
great deliberation, that the Militia Of Enganci °their
that Country, should be confined in reSpea 501 sa.
services, to the Countries by avhich they wer.e.ho
vcrally paid. His Lordship defended, o'l4lll.lig
accustoined ability, the :meeting of the xvi.,120/
Colonels at the Thatched liothe, and challenge"vo,
Noble Lord to point out why, or where, ifl"sll.'erti,
constitution-al for a number of Officers, all of „I ?of•
without scarcely an piception, either Peers ossbia,
liament or Members of another House, to Is*: awl'
and capes% their opinion on a subjed ;we hi*
materially concerned them. His LortialljP
most decided-dissent to the Bill. egsuce iii
Lord If AffiKESBURY sueported the "II iaticna
a short speech, and found fault with the ga°d their
e
entered into by the Qificers who subscb gear,
names to therh. He considered it as a eery
~, old a
error in them, to speak as leniently .as he and
,their conduit, to have assembled in " 4r • astO
military capacity, and to have pub a
lished ti
of their deliberations at that meeting. • rto
and gl A
Eirl RossNeY condemned the measure,
dicared the conduft of .the Meeting at the 'IP',
House, at which lie had. the honour to b
I 3 e c"'
I,.'t efr
Lords HAWKESURY antiFurzwlLL'lA 000
by the ,L tohße
by the Loao CHANCELLOR,Iti
Lord CARNARVON rose, and contended loge&
Noble Friend was.striAly. in order. The livijek
.being Put on, the second reading, the House"
bsaetindaw.cvani,lcawl"te°,:'
dog
'Contents: Peers -64 Non- C.ontents Peear,fie;s
. Proxies - 577 Pr
Majority -
Lord HAWICESBURY said,' at that'
would not move for the second Leading of .t
.1,)!Aor
Bill before their Lordship's, the Irish Mll..tolf 47diat
mentarion Bill, but confine himself' to mov! E.'6001
the Bill, now read. a second time, 410140 ult.::
; ,teti
mitted for tomorrow.
I ha& i°filij lie
Lord GRE.NVILLE 'stated, that han goo
greater objedions to the second ,_t•• etioo
some length to,morrov. He agree pOp
Lord, that it was itow too late to eliciocje.
one now. read,
.and would statethdos.:XiteheSatl2,4‘
-discussion of it.—Adjourned at-Eleve,n°

IDUSE OF C01g1004..
THURSDAY! Aritu. 194 foro
This day a ‘4llot was to have taken•—lir-latt,'" ell,
13
Committee to try and determine Me merits°

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