The Sun.
London, England, 1858-04-20 00:00:00

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crease of 7,700,0001. Hewes sorry, too, that t—...— righton. Tuere is rm mystery about `the matter, and on the teble
gentleman had not made provisien for the payment of et the libra -v he will find every inform ktion upon the
the 2,000,0001. Bonds, and the extinction of the income- , pet, from the time when the tax was first imposed.
tax. In that respect he considered the policy of the right The same hououra hie gentleman has great d inlets of the
hon. gentle au, in --0 ling to the debt in time of peace, accuracy of my estimate respecting the returns from
was extremely ehj cienable. He approved of the duty on the Pest-office. Now, that was a subject on which I
cheques, and could hears, wished that the right hon. gentle- dio not pr enterer to exercise any discretion. It is a depart-
man hail imposed a probate duty on real estate. Such a ment on which it was impossible for me to form any opi-
ditty would have realised 2,000.0007. nien, and I entirely depended, therefore, upon a gentleman
Sir F. BARING said that expectations having been held who has the management of that department, and who,
out to the country that the income-tax was to be removed, for thorough knowledge of the subject and for general in-
the financial arrangements of the right hon. gentleman telligence, is scarcely Nettled in the country. lithe hon.
admitted those expectations to be valid, as regarded the gentleman were to hear the manner in which that gentle-
great party whom he led, and the house adopted the repre- man explains the apparent defalcation this year, and calcu-
sentation. That, to his mind, was a great advantage, lates upon the sum of 3,200,6001., which is the sum that I
and so groat a one, that he should have been prepared to have fixed on, for next year, lam sure that be would feel
support the right hon. gentleman in pronosing taxes of a that I was justified in adopting that amount. The hon.
more objectionable nature than those which be had pro- member for East Sussex has made an attack upon me far
posed for the purpose of obtaining it. (Hear, hear.) His the ',c intemptuoue manner, as he said, in which I had
right hon. friend the member for Oxford said he should treated the hop duties.
have preferred to retain an income-tax of 2d. one year Mr. DODSON was understood to explain that what he
longer. in order to pay off the Exchequer Bonds. He had said was that his constituents would not think that
(Sir F. Baring) was not prepared to say that, finan-
justice hail been done to them by omitting to deal with the
cially, that was better. Moreover, if it had effected its hop duties.
object, it would have been at the expense of a breach of The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER continued.
faith. Financial pledges were not always redeemed, but —Well, to be accused of not doing justice is certainly not a
in his judgment it was a great object to observe rigidly a compliment ; but I ask how could I, with a balance-sheet
pledge so made. His hon. friend who had just sat down such as I had to submit to the committee, enter into the
had spoken of the desirableness of effecting economical rc- question of the hop duties or of any other duties to be re-
ductions in the estimates, but there was scarcely the time pealed ? (Hear, hear.) What encouragement have I to
deal with the hop duties? I once attempted to do so and
for a Government, just cnterd upon office as it was, to go
through the estimates for that purpose. He quite agreed I was unsuccessful. (" Hear," and a laugh.) Since then I
however, with the right hon. gentleman the member for have received what I may call a " monster deputation,"
the University of Oxford, that the taking off of an income- which included almost every gentleman in Kent and Sassex.
tax depended on the reduction of expenditure. Perfect I received them, of course, with great pleasure, and felt
efficiency in the public service was quite consistent with highly honoured by their visit; but the primary and cardinal
economy, and was not al ways to be measured by the amount point of their policy was that no remission of the hop duty
short of its total repeal was for a moment to be attempted.
of
J mone expended.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I shall not long detain the corn- Under those circumstances I could hardly suppose that the
mittee, but I cannot help adverting to one or two observe- hon. member for Sussex could have contemplated that I
tions that have been made, es ecially by the right hon. could hold out to him or to his constituents any expectation
member for Oxford city. I confess, too, I cannot agree of being able to afford them that relief which they sought,
with the hon. member for Lambeth that is a time in rine I may add that I have too much confidence in the
which the Government coul-t have reduced the expenditure courtesy of those gentlemen of Kent and Sussex who waited
below the amount now proposed. Considering the revolt in upon me on the occasion to which 1 have referred to be-
India and the state of affairs generally, I think the expen- lieve for a moment that they could fancy I was die-
diture is reduced as much as it is possible it could be re-
posed to treat their claims with contemptuous silence.
duced—under the circumstances. Theme is one step which (Hear, hear.) That they are a suffering class at this me-
the Government have takeu—no doubt adopting the inten- moot I entertain no doubt; but unfortunately there are
tious of their predecessors—that causes me regret, the dis- many such classes and districts throughout the country,
embodiment of the militia. (Hear.) I believe that which and I cannot help thinking that with a deficit of 4,000,0001
wee called into action lest year to be the beat and most before us it is a somewhat unreasonable proposition to
effective force we can have. I therefore regret it is now to make that I should entirely repeal the hop duties, because
be dish tnded. (Hear, hear.) As to the manner in which nothing short of their total abolition will, lam informed,
the right hon. gentleman proposes to meet the expenditure meet thedifficulties of the question. (Hear, bear.) Now,
of this year. With respect to his equalisation of the spirit the hon. member for Dar onport (Mr. Wilson) has corn-
duties, that seems to nie to be a very wise measure; and merited upon the statement which I made this evening,
I think Irish members, although bound to object—(a and has stated that he does not feel much confidence in my
laugh) still felt the force of his observations upon that ts• inmates with reference to the Customs, and still less with
subject. As to the duties upon stamps and checks, more respect to those which I have made in the case of the Ex-
consideration is required, but I de not think they will cise. Ho seems to be of opinion that there has been an
create such embarrassment as has been supposed. There
extraordinary addition to the revenue during the past year
may, however, be objections of detail which are not in the shape of spirit duties, for which I ought net to
yet apparent. There is ono thing in which I agree with take credit in framing the estimates for 1858-9. Now,
the right hon. member for Oxford (Mr. Cardwell). Of under the head of Excise for the year which has just
elapsed appears an amount which may be called extra-
course I do not mean to say in what manner the money
should be raised to pay the Exchequer-bonds or to con- ordinary, but I doubt whether the hon. gentleman
tinue the Sinking Fund—that is especially a difficulty for was correct in attributing the existence of that amount
the Chancellor of the Exchequer (e. laugh)—but I own, entirely, or even mainly, to the duties upon spirits. For
without at all maintaining the wisdom of establishing the my part, I believe it arose from the malt duties to an ex-
Sinking Fund, I think it would have been a good example tent upon which we cannot now calculate ; but, be that as
if this country had been called upon to pay off in this year it may, I altogether differ from the hon. gentleman as to
some of the debt incurred by the lest war. (Hear, hear.) the principle upon which the estimates ought to be framed.
My right hon. friend has said that these two million Ex- I think, indeed, that in order to illustrate tho financial
chequer-bonds were to pay off a debt incurred before the position of the country, it is essential to call the attention
taxes were imposed in the first year of the war. It has of the house to some particulars connected with the va-
always appeared to me that when a country enters into rious branches of our revenue for the year which may have
wur—and the doctrine is applicable to this as much as to just expired, but I must at the same time maintain that
any other country—it is a great temptation to be the only sound course to pursue in dealing with the depart-
able to raise thirty or forty millions at once, and if ments such as the Customs and the Excise is to frame your
only the interest of that sum is charged upon the pre- estimates in accordance with that which you believe will
sent genes ation it will willingly accept that burden be the probable consumption for the year for which you
and leave the greater one to posterity. It appears are about to provide. (Hear.) You must not argue in this
to me that the intention was that we were to pay each crude manner that, because last year 18,0,0,0e0/. were
year a certain portion of the expenses of the war. The obtained from a particular source, you would be justi-
plan of the right hon. gentleman does away with that ob. fied iu estimating the revenue from that source for the
ligation. The nation acquiesced in that war, and if we next year at 18,2 AWOL (Hear, hear.) Upon the
in the
ott
the
eee
ours opinione , ai
u committee, tih neotze
he
respect
r taoe
had paid off a part of our debt we should have shown our contrary, you must take article by article, and frame your
sslitaan:oesw,
opinion of the necessity of the war, and that we were wil- estimate upon the probable consumption of that article
ling to bear our burden on account of it ; when welcome within the year for which it is your object to snake pruvi-
to 1863 the Chancellor of the Exchequer of that day will sion. I cannot, therefore, concur with the hon. gentleman
naturally say, "This is not an obligation incurred by us •
which
ill: the
tohaotsiemtaotews which ho t
to
has
assume.
mll eed. the(a attentionear,hea r
.)
fog upon myself the responsibility
we may as well leave it to posterity, and put it in the great
estimates which I have laid mass of debt; let it be a part of the National Debt—we
will provide for the interest, and that is the extent of our
the
the
apr,oys,i
position
otno
wt the c
them ; but I may add that I have accept
obligation." I certainly do regret that we are about to
repudiate that obligation, as ethink it would have shown
statek upon the authority of those
iwledge and experience I and every gentleman who
a good example if we had proved our readiness to meet
and embrace
our liabilities on account of the war we ourselves hail
gentleeemnenempowerehdosteo
waged. We are now paying, as the right hon, gentleman
just observed, 23,e00,0001. a-year for the debts incurred
by our ancestors. They found it so easy to raise loans
hnolo
upon the best terms, and to leave us to discharge the ob- place the utmost dependence—thathonour to occupy must
ligation of re-payment ; lam sorry the right hon. gen- which I have submitted to th there is not a figure
tleman has not thought proper to teach the present gene- their fullest committee which has not
sanction. (Heare)
ration a better lesson. (Hear.) I have had documents
containing a general view of the state of
Mr. WHITE said the Chancellor of the Exchequer had the country, its
trade and manufactures, sent to me b
referrel to China in order to explain a possible expendi- Influential but still subordinate positions to
who hold
tura, but he (Mr. White) thought the right hon. gentle- lout gentlemen to whom 1 allude, and who tailehose einih.
mats might be perfectly tranquil on that score, as the costs more sanguine view in reference to the Customs athmall" I
of the late war were paid with the utmost facility by have thought I should be justified in taking as the bases
China, to the extent of 21,000,000 dolor. ; and so upon the of the calculation which I have made. My object has been.
present occasion, if those now representing this country in ,
- to lay before the committee estimate which I conceived to
China knew their position they would be enabled to make fullest
I ihd !rave
ordinary
xbv decerxifctsotihr ioeensaettael if lldeht
,o.ocvstu influencecihhe, rnn6l:
int.
trkfti
raeum. fromel)ei
du. ti littahhokneel
bo fair, temperate, and cautious. (Hear.) I have the utmost
proper arrangements for trade which would insure us confidence in the progressive prosperity of the country.
against any ultimate loss on that gccount. All moneys (Hear.) Ido not look forward to any sudden or violent
which the China war had cost. or might cost, should be change in that respect; but I anticipate that steady and
regarded in the light of money lent rather than as money gradual improvement will continuo to take place which, if
spent, because the expansion of trade which would follow no calamity should befell us, will, with the blessing of
upon judicious arrangements would more than repay to
the imperial revenue any indemnification which might be Divine Providence, ea Ise our refs u •ces next year to assume
a more satisfactory aspect. Meer.) It remains for me only
exacted from them for the cost of the war, to thank the committee once more for the indulgence which
-The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I must it his extended towards use this evening, an indulgence
thank the house for the courteous and candid manner in which I can assume you I deeply feel. (Loud cheers.)
which it has received the propositions which, on the part Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked what change the right
of the Government, I have had the honour of submitting. boa. gentleman proposed to make in reference to xc E he•
The position in which we found ourselves was one of great quer-bonds
difficulty, as every hoe, gentleman has recognised, and one The CHANCELLOR of the E.XCHEQURR-elt is my
in which it would have been impossible for us to have
dealt with these matters ha Iwe not trusted to the iudnl- intention, when the bill founded upon these resolutions is
before the house, to brine under its notice the accounts of
gence of the house. (Hear, hoar.) The right hon. mem- the appropriation of the' public money, and I shall then
bar for Oxford (Mr. Cantwell) has expressed a wish, in
taken in e case of Exchequer bills.
we.
state w hat are the l measures ptrhope ocsoeutrosebriisnigv
hforwardroan.
which, financially, I quite sympathise, that we had been
ons embodying the proposals contained
the subject generally, and
whatth able to pay off the two million bonds, but the right hon.
member for Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring) has replied so well
in the financial statement. were then
to that wish, and has explained so completely my feelings,
that I need not dwell upon that point. We had to consider Commend
varieaatoreboeluti
put and agreed to,
and the heese resume l
whether it was a matter of high policy or not that we should
Quadruple
announce to the country that what it believed to be the com-THE RECALL OF' LORD HO LADEN.
Yt6oVtAheNot im en proceeded to call the atten-
pact of 1'853 and which, at all events, we know was a tatoun Sirfrom
fD
the
e Madrid.L
houseA
solemn erneengagnt—should be carried into effect or not.
Spain was in a most deplorable was, subject of the recall of Lord How-
but he expressed his
ycereuarnstrhymiinmEmulerope which
However greaterdif he said, generally thought that
It seemed to maeter mature deliberation upon the course min
depioralle state. This might be so ;
which we had resolved upon, that it should be (larded out
Confident opinion that there was no
in a manner that would not lead on the part of the nation
jell Baring the last tea or twelve
to any suspicion ; that the country should not imagine that
try.country, itasatidlilitenj al progress than that coun-
what we proposed was only fur the moment and for the
occasion—that it was only to be a semblance of fidelity,
respect to that c
character.
raiti.ame et
enrt.,
results hail been obtained, eyed the form of a constitutional difficult wore
wore the circumstances of the
and not the fact. It appeared therefore to be necessary that
as most important that our policy with
we should make an arrangement with respect to the Ex-
office some important changeswaspreviouslytie-
the
had been made in the (Epic-
astonishment to allofeatrties in Spain.
which were expressed by the right hon. gentleman upon
expressed their detertnina-
and St. Petersburg. where our
that head ; for although the income-tax in 1'360 may have
Howden. All the organosseo.
ceased --as I hope it will—l cannot believe that the re-
thNo case weiitnh Lord
t
sources of the country will not be able to meet
ifepcaulbilhiseoloppirnoidonuceodf
ethveery
shade greatest
rerceaLlll.of
What Lord
the claim of 1,000,0007. a year for two Sears. Has
the right honourable gentleman no confidence in the pro-
the French Minister,se
of politics,
country was aware
had expressed hteheciaruistegsroeft atthteh;
Lord Howden. Ho
greys of the prosperity of the country ? Does he sup-
panosde ththatatouf
pgearliscoi nthael
rienctaeirleostf
twhhaatt
.s
hmTc:
Qurrriedg
orltei,kn
at
kttabhbeelreesfa: was.ee the eokuarneeocilawtl 1
ooalfs
visited
what grounds this removal had bieen made, therefore,
ho had no
it most important that teent
resources
st yew:ill:I. n
is
not
calamity—such
elotsaniancpcirla
ass
ass
saeo
unless,vwearr
oo ru ra
fwaem heads,ai
rae
—that we shall be enabled to meet such a demand with per
facility ? He has no confidence in increased revenue, in
? e matter.information
urt:berletinnartihas
increased retrenchment, and in that Sycee silver which and
promised by the hon. member for Plymouth. (Hear, an
a laugh.) I, sir, have confidence that these bonds will be given to the country on the Subject.
an unpopular act on
He could not bat re-
met by the revenue of the year, and that they never will
become a part of the permanent debt of the country ; and I the part of the Government,
have the ereater confidence, because' believe that there will hon. gentle'', ere woull be and ho trusted that the right
(able to state that this change
be a ready disposition on the partof the nation to support had not been
made in consequence of the dictation of any
sound financial views if they find that in this matter Par- foreign Court (Hear hear 1
ne liaent has kept faith with them. (Hoar, hear.) It will Mr. S. FITZ eEtt .eeisie :"
be necessary to have a vote of Committee in Supply for the justification for any
of
ths.aid there was not the slightest
ius ns of the hon. and
purpose of those bonds, and I have prepared a resolution gallant member, and he could not think that the course
which I propose to move to-night. That must be followed proposed was an almost unprecedented
by a Committee of Ways and Means on Wednesday, and ironical cheers.) Thehen.aaaui one. (Oh, ob, and
gallant member had said
I trust that the house will not object to our taking that that coincident with the recall ot Lord Howden there bad
course. (Hear.) I have listened to all that has been urged boon the recall of the Mar iris of Turgot. H
with regard to the two new taxes which I have proposed ; that no representations on the subjegct had°hweaes confidentmode
and, with respect to the first of them, I must say that I the Cabinet of France, and if such had been made,n by
think that the general expression of feling on the part of confident that they would listened
was
not be to for a moment
the Irish members appears to bo most genuine and good- by her Majesty's Government. It was perfectly true that
natured, for I cannot believe that the opposition they have the recall of Lord Howden • was rather abrupt, Inasmuch
shown arises from anything more than a desire to exhibit as it was firs; announced by the telegraph ; but thee upon
that eloquence which characterises them, and in which I the same day that the telegraph nt to him, • t
candidly confess they excel both Englishmen and Scotch- letter to thesame effect was forwwaaredesel to him b ahipsritivohalee
men. (Hear, and a laugh.) lam sure they will find on re- friend the secretary for Foreign Affairs, couched in as
flection, however, that the measure is really calculated for courteous lasguage as it -possible was to Use. The only
the benefit of their country. One hon. gentleman alarmed reason why the telegre Li e was employed in the first in-
mo by stating that the policy which I was pursuing would stance was to prevent the intimation of the earliest an-
open the door to smuggling; but I can have no apprehen- nouneement of his recall reachitl, Lord Howden through
eion with the aid of the constabulary, to whom will be other channels than her Majesty's Government. He could
confide - the duties of the late revenue police of Ireland— add that although in recAlliug Lord Howden, his noble
that smuggling will increase. The right hon. gentleman friend only exercised what was his undoubted right, he
the member for the University of Oxford did me the jog- did not thereby intend to cast any
censure upon him.
tics to suppose that I would not take the responsibilty of (Hear, hear,) All that ho intended to convey by
introducing this proposition to Parliameet, had T not, after the act was the expression of an opinion that, under the
careful research, satisfied myself that there was no probe- peculiar circumstances of the moment, England would be
bility of there being any recurrence to illicit distillation better served by having a different representative at the
in Ireland. We have three times sinee 1833, I think, Court of Madrid. As for the supposition that iu taking
raised the duty upon Irish spirits—the aggregate of those this step her Majesty's Government had a secret. intention
amounts being greater than the change which 1 now pro- of promoting certain dynastic changes in Spain,
could
pose—and illicit distillation has not been heard of. Ido only say that no such absurd Wee had aver bee h
entertainede
not ascribe that especially to the constabulary force, but by the Government. And certainly if the hat eutt•ned
I ask is there no change in Ireland? (Hear, hear.) Isn't such a notion, it was not to the Court Of Denmarkera
they
there a higher tone, a greater sense of duty and love of would base gone to select the instrument of their policy.
order in Ireland; and isn't it true that things that were No, they would have looked elsewhere,
_instead of appoint-
done 25 years ago in that country sin man would think of ins to the post one e earsif the most cl ghted and Reewn"
doing at the present time—not merely because the moral plished servants of the Crown. (Hear.)
sense of the country is higher, but because its material pros- Le rd PALNIERSTON quite agreed to the general prin-
perity has also improved? (Hear.) Ireland has risen- She ciple laid down by the hou. gentleman, that
with
stands much higher, both in the material and the moral to the diplomatic appointments it was expedientthat
scale, and I am satisfied that the result of this change willadviser'
of the Crown should be at liberty toal
n hethie
r
when it is understood, receive the approbation of the Irish own diplomatic agents. At the same time he did choose
think
people. It is not in my power to consent to postponing the prosout Government as the host entitled of all others
the resolution on the subject, but the hon. member for to maintain the principle, because he remembered that the
Cork will lose nothing by that. It must appear hereafter noble lord at the head of the Government hadc
called upon
in the shape of a bill, and he will have every Parlia- Parliament on a former occasion, and with s
mentary opportunity of discussing it ; but I trust that we to interfere with regard to the freedom of the eGmoev success,
shall hear no more of opposition, and that the Irish of the day in choosing their owe agents at vet- important Government
members generally will give it a generous support. (Hear, foreign posts. On the other baud, with reser ay
man-
hear.) With respect to the stamp upon checks, I must in Val Lord Howden had beenr to the
ner w i recalled, he could not
inform the hon. meinher for Kendall, who seems to think say that he thought the explanation of the honourable gen-
that Chancellors of the Exchequer bring forward mea- ! Comm et all satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) He did not
sure' without giving them the least previous consideration ' question the act of the Government, but he must declare
that I have endeavoured to make myself master of all the' his inability to recognise the necessity (his recall
objections that can be urged to that proposition. They 1 being eotrimunicate Ito Lord Howden in so abrupt
man-
have been urged before ; and, nevertheless, a resolution , nen It certainly seemed strange to make the a
sanctioning a similar measure has been passed_ No doubt went by, as it wore, an electrical shock,in order '
etonnouncei
I shall herr many complaints and there will be many the contents of a courteous and amiable letter frompre"n
oozing
letters and deputations with respect to it. All that He imagined the P '
out. should have Foreign-office knew how
lam prepare,' for ; but is it possible to propose any to keep tl •secrets better than that
. their house. He felt it due
addition to taxation without undergoing that ordeal? The
to Lord Howden to bear testimony to the greatability
question is,—ls it just and will it be beneficial ?As to its with which he had discharged his important
_duties during
justice, I propose to do that which is the first principle of along time at lit d.• d •
course of
legislation in finance—l propose to put all cud to an ex- •
i p yaw and public grounds, he lamented the necessity for
eurptiou. As to the result of the measure, all that I c 1 -11 • in other hand'.
on 1 placing the trust
say is, " try it." (Hoar, and a laugh.) When it is nieces- I Mr. 10ER said that whatever might be the merits of
nary to raise revenue, and a measure is proposed which is ' Lord Bowden, it was beyond the possibility of dispute that
just in principle, I think that the best way of settling all t Br •t' appointed
he ilns er to succeed him was one of the ablest
disputes as to the result is to try it. (Heer.) So much
public servants at the disposal of the Crown,
with respect to the two new taxes which I propose ; but The house then went into Committee of
there have boon some miscellaneous observations and ap- SUPPLY.
peals ma le to myself in the course of the discussion which The fist sum of , :Ist vote taken was for a
,0001. to pay
it would be a want of courtesy not to notice. The hon.
off '
Exchequer-bills during the current year,
mouth mt. for Ripon has declare i that there is considerable The next vote agreed to was for a sum of
amount necessary for the payment the nt of
34,671'., to
mystery connected with what accrues from the succession complete
duty, and he asked if I would object to lay a return before wae4 g of labourers in the mail establishments abroad.
the house of what was obtained from that source. 'Chu Thy ,les next vote was for a sum of 789,7421., to complete the
honourable member, however, will find all the informa- sum voted for mail stores, steam machinery, outfits, sec,
the
time that he reqn.rea in annual bnancial accounts, Admiral DIINCOMBE though the reduction which had

~1:~

I-I?, I

Tril
1855.--

-

taken place under this head was a false economy ; in amo
m• nt of emergency it might be impossible to obtain au
adequate supply of proper stores.
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON slid the reduction bad only (From, the Tunes.)
ti b re-
qty ha 1 been kept open till the last momee noono the ade to
art the vo
the Board te after the most prot
altr acted d
delibethe ra-
We are all of us familiar with the buoyancy of our re-
of Admiry,
nt with that an that
venue, the elasticity of our resource., the fertility of our
v
view. productive powers, and such phrases or feats ; but there
is one civility of the British Exchequer which his hardly
Lord ELCHO, although not having the smallest preteu-
had due justice, and which appears to want even a name.
kolas to the character of a sailor, must warn the committee
Something can always be " rummaged " out of the Ex-
from approving of a suggestion given upon a former even-
ing by the gallant admiral opposite (Sir C. Napier). The chequer by a good search into all its holes and corners,—
gallant admiral had expressed a strong opinion in favour
enough to supply the present emergency. There are house-
wives and households with an eccentric sort of thrift who
of the very ships whose sides should be plated with iron
delight to play at hide and seek with money —generally in
for war purposes. Now he believed the adoption of such
small sums, sometimes in a larger way. So, when a elid-
e policy would be, to say the least, very questionable.
During the late war the French had employedq a ship of dere demand is made—when, towards the end of the quer-
that character before Kimburn, and it certainly had not ter, the baker loses patience—there is the money in the
del, and the silt or in the purse, and the collection in the
proved itself shot proof. If wrought iron shot were fired
missionary box—of course to be repaid—and Miss Lucy'.
at wrought iron plates the effect would be the same as
under the present system. Even the repeated discharge hoard of fourpenny -pieces, and the balance of the unsettled
the old guineas, and the
iron
of cast shot against such a surfaca had the effect of account with Untie William, and
splintering the inside timber coating of the ship to such foreign coins, and other odds and ends, making up a won-
an extent as greatly to endanger the lives of the seamen, derful sum, considering the petty scale of the several
item'. In fact, an idea of affluence is produced by the
Sir C. NAPIER, hoped the Admiralty world less no
tim in trying the iment of den•sided ls review of sums which a month ago it would have been
against
w-irono plates. Theyvesse had thought ridiculous, if not sacrilegious, to touch. The
plenty of old three-deckers applicable for the purpose. present Chancellor of the Exchequer appears to have had
Mr. LINDSAY thought that some means ought to be his eye first on these relics of old thrift and wrecks of specu-
devised for enabling the House of Commons to form an lative finance. Instead of drawing deeper on the inexhaust-
opinion as to the character and size of the ships that were ible and increasing resources of the country, or laying on a
being built. The votes ought to set out such details, as huge tax, he pulls down from its dusty shelf the time-ho-
there were plenty of gentlemen having seats in that house 'mural Sinking Fund, an I lays his profane hands on Mr.
who were e apeble of forming proper notions on the Glad t ines'i pet scheme of finance,—the Exchequer-bonds.
buildingof shies. We were building largo ships fern° re sson Why should we pretend to pay our debts, he asks, when
that he could learn, except that France was building large we havn't a surplus ? Why should we net renew
ships, and the reason given by France was that England was a running bond if there is the the same need of it now as
building large ships. He could imagine a small ship ever ? The truth is, we must face a deficit of four millions
capable of sinking half a dozen large ones, which could not this year. It is caused not by the decrease of the revenue,
touch her. (Hear.) If she could go one knot an hour which, in t; to of untoward circumstances, continues te
faster, and throw shot five hundred yards further, she increase ; not, iu great measure, by increase of expenditure;
would render them utterly worthless. He should advise but by our professed obligation to pay old debts and the
that this building of large ships cease, and offer a premium cess anon of taxes. After the repeated resolution of the
for designs of ships to give a greater speed, with greatest counts and the legislature to get rid of the Income-tax,
Mr. .3
ofl)israeli will not propose to put off further the reduc-
e: 2d. in the pound. So he makes out his budget as
amount of stowage, Sec. We should endeavour to get ships
g:
91on',oissftoproane millionth e operation
lot! theile o Sinkingew
till i
sF6ou Fund
e;
of the greatest speed, and then they would leave every-
thing behind them. (A laugh.) He then alluded to the follows
.that
o is.
to7ramthillio Exchequer-bands now falling in. The balance
recent improvements in anchors, as an examp!o of the re- two
than helf a million he makes up by eq eels-
sult of a competition similar in principle to what he sug-
riashsoaropdluEs
bugylipsuhtStipoigritaDpuotoioeys
gested. The Admiralty anchor was found by the committee .I.'l the Irish
of 1853 to bo the worst in use, and yet they had continued
ltohgobktai n ;s
t aa ne
: ire heo
n lb) raonpkoesres"
to use it to that day. Trotman's was the anchor then
c ,erc -s, which he expects to produce e03,0J0/, a-ye r.
stated to be the best. We were losing a large amount of
The only feature of importance in this speech'. is the
money by continuing to use the antiquated anchors which
Chancellor of the Exchequer's view of Sinking Funds and
had been declared to ba the worst. He thought it advis-
erellyof all attempts at aregular system of repayingdebts.
able in all cases to adopt the principle of public compoti- geu
The right practice, and the only sound system he appears to
tion, and that without pledge to accept the lowest tender.
consider that which is really no system at all, applying the
In many cases it might even be better to accept the lowest
the annual earplug to the reduction of the debt. Certainly,
tinder. every ether system has hitherto proved a delusion, and
Lord C. PAGET differed widely from the opinion of
scarcely pretends to be more. For the proof of this we
his noble friend. He referred to the opinion of Mr.
have only to follow the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his
Moorsom as to the comparative merits of iron and wooden
review of the several systems at work. Last year we were
sided ships as to the resistance to shot. There was a
actually paying off a quarter of a million of the national
limit to the size of shot, and if they could get a vessel
debt by the operation of the general Sinking Fund ; we are
able to resist shots of a little more than eight inches, which
now paying a million and a half a-year by the operation of
was the most they expected to got, that might be con-
the War Sinking Fund to pay the debt of the late war;
sidereal as shot proof, at least as regarded horizontal
and this year two millions of Exchequer-bonds, which are
shots, and would resist cast-iron shells. Guns of
only a terminable form of national debt, fall due. All
more than eight inches calibre were unmanageable and
these three processes are founded on the supposition of a
dangerous to the ship. Thus we had arrived at the limit
revenue exceeding the expenditure. It was anticipated
of the size of the shot, but not at thelimit of the strength
that they would be ; aid out of revenue; and, could it have
of a ship's side. If a four inch iron casing would resist an
been shown that when the time came we should have to
eight inch shot, then a casing of six inches might be con-
borrow for the purpose of carrying out any one of these
sidered sufficient for all purposes. three measures it would not have passed the house. Yet, in
Mr. WARRE said the vessels sent out to Chili% were
fact, we have had to go into debt, and are doing so still,
not intended for so long a journey, and it washy a good pro-
for the very purpose of making these repayments of debt;
vidence that they had arrived safe. He would throw out
en I, like merchants trading without capital, we are simply
a suggestion whether it was worth while to subject them
borrowing with the left hand as much as we pay with
to the risk of a journey home. The engines might be
taken out. If one of them was lost on the passage home the right' Such a practice cannot be justified in theory.
The system of, a fixed 'annual repayment of debt was, as
in bad weather, the loss would be greater than if all were
Mr. Disraeli observes, in the great war in the be-
left. It was clear we were on the eve of great naval im-
ginning of the century, and utterly failed. It has
provements. He referred to the committee before which
always proved a loss, as in order to pay our debts,
Lord Carlisle gave evidence, when he said that if we were
we have borrowed on worse terms. The only question is
at war with ships moved by steam machinery, which was
the moral effect, Mr. Disraeli thinks it ba I. It makes us
now used for every other species of vessel, there was no
imagine we are reducing our debt when we are doing no-
knowing what the expenses of such warfare would be.
thing of the kind. It also confuses and falsifies the public
Sir F. SMITH observed in reference to improvements
accounts, telling us on one side of them that there is a cur-
ia warfare, that the Marquis of Anglesea had first sug- plus, on the other that there is a deficit. The supposed
gested the introduction of the Minis rifle.
Lord PALMERSTON said that Lord Vivian was the good moral effect of the practice is the national a Itnission
of the duty, and the prescription of an exact amount. The
first person who drew the attention of Government to
frequent disregard and consequent inutility of a self-
the improvement of the means of warfare, though Lord
imposed law does not prove it a bad one. Such rules are
Anglesea had afterwards taken up the matter with more
addressed to those who have the strength to observe them.
practical results.
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE said that in the case of iron The 13. itish public clearly has not that strength ; perhaps
circumstances do not leave it the power Is such a moral
vessels every one who had been on board of one of them
rule, then, as a Sinking Fund applicable to our case ? The
must come to the opinion that the vibration to which
question is hardly one for mere abstract considerations. If
they would be subject would render them useless in a few
it ems be shown that owing to the operation of the general
SinkingyearsFund,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked7what security the co- or any other, we have repaid more debt
rn
than we should have done otherwise, that is a reason for
mitten had as to the amount that would be spent in stores?
retaining some such system. If no such results can be
Without some such assurance he did not see the use of all
shown, let us fall back oa our n ational honesty and thrift,
their discussion. Supposing a surplus on last year's votes,
and have no Sinking Fund.
would he think himself justified in using that, or would he
The Budget itself is a very practical question. How are
pledge himself that only the sums voted would be used.
we to meet a deficit of four millions ? Whatever may be
Enormous sums of money were wasted in the purchase and
said of the moral effect of a Sleeking Fund, or any system
sale of stores. It was perfectly astounding that her Ma-
whatever for the repayment or the determination of our
jesty's Government appeared to be the largest dealers in
stores in the world. He believed it was a serious item of debts, that morel effect moat be in abeyance unless we are
actuallydiwinishingthedebt. This wasnotthecaselastyea ,
eost. It came out in a committee that many of their old
stores were in point of fact new stores. (Rear, hear.) nor does the Chancellor of the Exchequer expect it will bo
Sir F. SMITH related the circumstances under which this year. He proposes simply that, as we are not actually
he had communicated with Sir J. Burgoyne and the repaying, we must suspend the nominal p racers of repay-
Marquis of Angleeea on the subject of the Minie rifle. He unmet. Sir G. Lewis admits this to a certain extent. The
was aware of the merits of Lord Vivian in connection with two millions of Exchequer-bonds he appears to regard as a
this subject. financial ear riment,based on the supposition of en increas-
Lord ELCHO said that he had only asserted that Lord ing surplus, and therefore now a failure, or, at least, not
liar din had suggested the introduction of a lighter
yet successful. Let them be renewed till 1800, or any more
ge
convenient time. But he maintains the moral duty of inn-
weapon. mediately repaying the debt contracted by the late war,
Cap sin VIVIAN remembered to have formerly seen
and is therefore against borrowing again to repay the
in the room of Lord Vivian when in office samples of all
million and a half now payable under the War Sinking
the arms in use in Europe. Lord Vivian was the first
Fund. There is much force in the distinction, and Sir G.
person who introduced the two-groove rifle in the army.
Lewis is entitled to make it with authority, Mr. Gladstone
The Mimic invention consisted of an improvement in the
broadly maintains that the deficit may be met by reducing
ball, and not in the rise, which was precisely similar to
the expenditure. This opens a very largo question, and
the two-groosse rifle. Ile did not wish to detract from
takes us away from the Budget a together. The Chancellor
the merit of those who had introduced the present
of the Exchequer confesses that ho is not hirneelf in a posi-
weapon, especially for having placed it in the hands of the
tion to dictate the expenditure necessary fur the defence
common soldier—(hear, hear) ;- -but the noble lord the
of the country under present circumstances. The scale of
member for Tiverton was quite justified when ho claimed our army and navy, of our ships and fortifications,
for Lord Vivian the merit of having first drawn attention
depends on matters beyond his control. Everything
to the subject. (Hear.) here augurs expense. England is an expensive country.
Sir J. PAKINGTON could give no pledge that these
A. House of Commons which, at a moment's warn-
estimates would not be exceeded, nor could he give any ing, throws down the gauntlet to a man at the
assurance that moneys appropriated for one purpose could
head of six hundred thousand soldiers, and a navy
under any circumstances, bo applied to others. He had scarcely loss than our own, is an expensive body. The
heard no complaint with respect to the amount of timber
system of trial by jury which produced the acquittal of
in the dockyards. Perhaps the best thing that could be
Bernard is an expensive institution. It must not only
done with regard to gunboats would be to make there
be surrounded by the ocean, but backed by a good army
available for useful purposes in whatever part of the world
and navy. We may set down the professed conspirator
they might temporarily come into disuse. He admitted
and dealer in fulminating powder and grenades himself at
that the question of cutting down our three-deckers to
single ships had been mooted. (Hear, hear.) The hen. classa million
this piquant
to thlaacvountry.
must Luxuries of this high
A strong
and gallant member for Southwark and others had sug- national
sentiment and the habit of feelingbe
eid
for.
a deep interest
in
.
gested a duel between the two classes of ships. No doubt the affairs of all other nations must be expensive. We
the hon. and gallant admiral was prepared to take the
could hardly wish it otherwise. Who cares for cheap
command of one of the opposing vessels. (A. laugh.) But .
benevolence, cheap
patriotism, or cheap virtue of any
who was to command the other ? kind ? Now, we aro a great nation, and cannot do it
Sir C. NAPIER —The First Lord of the Admiralty,
cheap. So we cannot follow Mr. Gladstone's advice just
(Laughter.) now. At all events, we must wait till his own Parliament-
Sir J. PAKINGTON—No doubt. (Laughter.) But, tary tactics aro no singer of a sort to entail additions to
to speak more seriously, he assured the house that the our national defences.
question was now under the consideration of the Surveyor ....._
of the Navy. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. WILLIAMS complained of the large sums ex
paneled for these purposes. The votee
last sixs for this ear were
e th years they
more than 2,000,000/., and dunes,
had reached the enormous slam of '20,000,090/.
Mr. BENTINCK commented upon the large amount
expended upon anchors, and asked for information as to
the system which the Admiralty thought beat.
Mr. RICHARDSON re-urged Sir H. Willoughby's in-
terrogatory as to what had been done with respect to the
sale of old stores.
Gen. CODRINGTON urged the more continued use of
the Minis rifle.
Sir C. WOOD (who had been indirectly appealed to)
said that he had not brought down papers with him which
would have thrown a light upon what had been done as to
the sale of old stores ; but he replied generally, that only
such stores had been sold which were in disuse for the par-
ticular purposes for which they had been intended, and
which would be converted to other purposes.
Sir J. PAKINGTON thought this answer conclusive ;
and replying to Mr. Bentinck's question, said he believed
that Trotrnan'a anchor had not come into general use, owing
to the existence of great numbers on the old construction
in use. (Hear, hear.)
The vote was then agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the house
resumed.

TTTE BUDGET.

(From the Daily News.)

Mr. Disraeli's Financial Statement has, at all events,
the merit of being neither very complicated nor unreason-
ably diffuse. A certain amplitude of manner and mina-
danc3 of expression appear, by the general consent of all
Chancellors of the Exchequer, to be regarded as absolutely
indispensable in addressing the Committee of Ways and
Means. If our income exceeds our expenditure, it should,
of course, be appropriated to the liquidation of debt ;
but to incur debt in order to pay off debt is an ope•
ration hardly less objectionable in the case of govern-
ments than it is ruinous in the case of individuals. By thus
suspending the War Sinking Fund and deferring the pe-
riod for the liquidation of the Exchequer Bowls, Mr
Disraeli sweeps ,away 3,5U0 0001. of his 4,000,0,0/. deft:
ciency, Ile has still 500,0001. remaining to provide for
before he can make both ends meet.

His mode of accomplising this very necessary purpose is
by imposing two new taxes. By the first he equalises the
duty on Irish and British spirits ; raising it on the former
from 6s. 2,1. a gallon to Bs., the duty now imposed on the
latter. The calculated produce of this increase of duty is
500,0001., the exact sum wanted for filling up the deficit.
In order, however, to be quite sure about the matter, and
to secure a little elbowroom, Mr. Disraeli falls back upon
a device, familiar to more than ono of his predecessors, of
imposing a penny stamp on all bankers' cheques.
Such is the financial scheme of the new Chancellor of
the Exchequer. The imposition of new talcs, however
small iu amount, is necessarily unpalatable to the classes
' more immediately affected by them. That the banking
interest should protest against the penny stamp on drafts
was of course to be expected, but it is difficult to conceive
how a tax so trifling can seriously impede the current of
those payments which are principally made by cheque.
In disclaiming all intention of seeking to re-impose the
lapsed 2,1. of the income tax, Mr. Disraclinas probably se-
cured the substantial popularity of his budget. A. very ge-
neral apprehension had come to be entertained that the
exigencies of the public service would render such are-im-
position almost indispensable. Happily the elasticity of the
national resources has proved far greater than under all
circumstances could have been expected ; and had the re-
mitted portion of the tax been renewed, the estimates
would have shown a considerable surplus. Mr. Disraeli
has, we think, shown a wise discretion in not unnecessa-
rily resorting to a resource so generally odious as a reim-
posed income tax. A Budget that, rather than replace on
the whole middle class of the three kingdoms a burden
they had just shaken off, imposes a new duty on Irish
spirits and a penny stamp on bankers cheques, ought to
have more to hope from the support of the many than to
apprehend from the clamour of the few. Apart from the
Banking and Whisky interest, the reception given to Mr.
Disraeli 's Budget by the House of Commons was on the
whole favourable; and the new Administration may, ac-
cording to present appearances, feel some confidence that
they have contrived to extricate themselves without dis-
credit Prone one of the most formidable passages of the
session.

LOAN SOCIETIES BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA. (No. 2) BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
this bill be taken on Friday.
Mr. HORS XIAN suggested the discharge of the order.
(No, no.) As the house had resolved to proceed by resolu-
tions, it would be better to take this course, thus leaving
the housei unfettered. Proceedings would be facilitated by
discharging the order.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the
objection now raised rather technical than material. There
were two bills before the house, and on the whole it ap-
peared to him that the objection was technical; and that
unless both bills were withdrawn, it might be inconvenient
to take the course recommended. He believed the course
he proposed was according to precedent. It had already
been agreed to consider th resolutions on Monday, and he
thought it far better to suspend both bills until the opinion
of the house as to the principle of the two measures had
been affirmed. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON hoped that the course proposed
by the Government would not be construed int, an affir-
mation of the principle of No. 2 Bill. It was yet for the
house to determine whether the proceeding by resolution
was the more advisable course.
Mr. AYRTON suggested the withdrawal of No. 2 Bill,
as the Government in their resolutions ran so counter to
the principle of their measure.
The second reading of the bill was then postponed till
Monday.
POOR LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
Mr. CROSS obtained leave to bring id a bill to amend
the act 59th Geo. 111., cap. 12, " to amend the laws for
the relief of the poor.
The house then adjourned at 20 minutes after twelve.

AQUATICS.

TRADESMAN'S FOUR-OARED RACE.

The members of the Pimlico and Chelsva Unity
Rowing Club opened their season yesterday evening in a
four-oared race for money prizes from Putney to Batter.
sea-biidge, the following being the results :

White-1

Mr. Baler.
Mr. Bette.

1
Cole, C xwain.
Ited--0

Mr. F. Lidyani.
Mr. H. Lidyard

Mr. Blythe.
Mr. Cooper.

I
Fox, Cox wail:.
81113.-0.

Mr. R )nca.
Mr. Reid.

Mr. Stovell. ---- -.
Air. Witcher.
Mr. Redgrove. I MMr. W. Cuiack.
Ilallday, Cex wain.
It, was from end to end one of the finest races,)Wi-r
seen. Red and White went away together, Red having
a !light lead, which they kept all the way dew?,
b !mg clear to Battersea • there Red and White accident-
ally fouled, and it Will given in by the umpire to White.
Red came in firet by half-a-length, and White headed
Bluth by the same distance, the latter baring met with a
slight accident.