The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-09 00:00:00

between the noble lord and many who sat around him.
I The noble lord continued to say that in Australia the
supporters of the ballot were the men who lived in the
towns; the landholders—the squatters, as thty were
called—were opposed to it. That statement of the noble
lord be (Mr. Berkeley) could unequivocally contradict.
Mr. Nicholson, the founder of the ballot in Australia,
had answered the noble lord, and stated that be had
been returned by a rural district, the county of North
Berke, containing 8,000 electors. There was only one
other argument to which he would refer that had been
used by a member of the Government, for whom he and
the whole house bad the highest respect, he meant the
President of the Poor Law Board. In a speech addressed
to the electors of North Wilts, Mr. Sotheron-Eatcourt
had opposed the ballot on a rather new ground, the pre-
valence of original sin. (Great laughter.) The right
hon. gentleman said, "The reason why the ballot in my
eyes is offensive and to be deprecated is this—there is in
the heart of every single one of us such an element of
wickedness, and such a proneness to act contrary to
whatever is good and worthy of approbation, that for
the due and proper discharge of every trust we find that
publicity is the very best possible guarantee." That was
the doctrine of original sin ; every one of them at their
birth inherited the fallen nature of Adam, they had not
the fear of God before their eyes, but, moved and insti-
gated by the devil, they delighted in everything that
was bad, and abhorred everything that was good ; ergo,
says the right hon. gentleman, they must have open
voting. (A laugh.) He could not admit that was good
logic. If they were all of them miserable sinners, elec-
tors and non-electors, how could the supervision of
30,000 non electoral sinners have any good effect on
1,000 electoral scamps ? A flattering picture the right
honourable gentleman drew of them. What a set
of blackguards they must let into their clubs, and
what a set sf mauvais sujete they must admit into
the Bank of England. (Laughter.) He was lately
at a meeting for the election of a chaplain to Dulwich
College. Three hundred clergymen had sent in applica-
tions. Lord Stanley was in the chair. Like the rest
of the nobility he appeared to have a partiality for old
bat voting, and took the poll that way. Of course the
whole election was tainted with original sin, and instead
of electing an orthodox clergyman of the Church of Eng-
land, they must have got a Papist, or a Puseyite, which
meant the same thing. (Laughter.) There had lately
been an election of vestrymen in Belgravia, in St.
George's Without, of course by ballot. The candidates
were Lord Ernest Bruce, Gen. Sir W. Codrington, and
Phipps. (Great laughter.) Not Phipps thewarrior, and
slayer of men—not the knight of the Bath—(laughter)
—hut a peaceful Phipps, a slayer of sheep, a knight of
the cleaver. (Continued laughter.) The result of the
election was that Lord Ernest Bruca was at the head of
the poll, Phipps was second, Sir W. Codrington lost his
election. Now, according to the right hon. gentleman,
they should look on Lord Ernest Bruce and Phipps as
miserable sinners, elected by original sin, but on Gen.
Codrington as a perfect saint. (Laughter.) He had so
often answered the argument as to the franchise being a
trust that he would not now refer to it • but if hon. gen-
tlemen used that argument he hoped they would tell the
house in what did a breach of electoral trust consist. He
had only to thank the house for having allowed him to
make so long a speech on so hackneyed a subject. (Hear.)
It was a subject of great importance, and he trusted his
friends would express their opinions on it. (Hear, hear.)
The time was approaching in which they were about to
enter on their great profligate Saturnalia. The orgies
were in preparation. Shabby-genteel men were to be seen
about the Carlton. The Whig whippets-in were looking
for some respectable gentleman to supply the place of
the lamented Mr. Coppock. Men in the moon were pre-
paring to descend on boroughs in silver moonbeams. In
Vie country, the owners of the machinery were oiling the
cogs end greasing the wheels for the work. Infleence
would again beat work ; intimidation would stalk, and
drunkenness stagger through the land. He would ap-
peal from the House of Commons to the independent
electors of Great Britain and Ireland ; at the hustings
let them have a Shibboleth for every man—elect those
who can pronounce it ; those who cannot whether they
come in the guise t f Whig or Tory, reject. Let the
Shibboleth be " The Ballot." (Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. W. MARTIN seconded the motion, and in
doing so hoped that theihouse would not ignominiously
reject the resolution as had been previously done. He
could not understand how it could possibly happen that
the salutary influence of property could be affected in
any manner by the adoption of the ballot, although he
could readily understand how the abuse of that authority
could be checked by a system of secret voting. The hon.
member proceeded to refer to a speech delivered in the
southern division' of the county of Nottingham by the
chairman of the t lection committee, in which it was
broadly laid down that it was the duty of the landlords
to be down upon any tenant who might happen to change
his political opinions after being accepted as a tenant.
He had been engaged in at least five contested elections
and at four of these it was clearly
,understood to be the
rule thet the tenants en an estate were bound to vote
according to the opinions and wi.hes of the landlords.
(Hear, hear.) The preamble of the bill was verbatim the
words of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Lord
Chelmsford, and therefore deserved very serious consi-
deration on the opposite side of the house. He denied
that there was anything un-English in the vote by ballot
—it was used at clubs, at municipal elebtions, and an act
passed 150 years since, in the reign of Queen Anne, ex-
pressly enacted that the election of the town councillors
bculu be trieLnially and ny ballot. (Flea.) Tlio
in Australia at the tact election had caused the Govern-
ment candidate to be elected over the popular candidate
and it was universally declared by the populace that the
failure was due to the ballot, with which the populace
was thoroughly discontented in purpose. He would sup-
port any other plan, which would equally secure the in-
dependence of electors.
Si quid novisti rectius istis,
Candidus imperti—si non his utere mecum.

Mr. HUNT would not follow the hon. member into
original sin as he was sitting beside the best au hority on
tract sul•ject (Lord Palmerston). (A. laugh.) But he did
object to a person dropping a ball into the. btx, and then
coming away and telling a lie.
Mr. S. ESTCOURT said that society was interested
in knowing how the elector performed his functions. Ho
was likewise, for publicity, thinking that secrecy under
the present circumstances would be productive of mis-
chief. He might almost say that if they could achieve
secrecy, be should approve it. But they could not
achieve it—they could not shut up the mouth of the
voter himself or bis friends, or his relations. It was
impossible for any mau so to exercise his functions in
this country as to conceal it from the errs of his neigh-
bours. He htld that the franchise was a public trust,
and be had never hoard it spoken of in any other term:,
and the constitution would soon be at an. end if it should
ever come to be considered otherwise. He belisved the
ballot never could secure secrecy. He based his objec-
tion to the ballot on this, that the franchise was a trust
and that trust ought t be exercised openly. He did not
btlieve the ballot could put an end to bribery and cor-
ruption. The best way of preventing bribery and inti-
midation was by an alteration in the present electoral
districts, The true remedy was not_in a little crotchet
like the ballot, but in an alteration in the electoral
systetn.

_
Sir A. ELTON said, first of all the .ballot would not
work, and was therefore a sham. Then they were told
that it would work, but that it would degrade the con-
stitution ; and then they were told that it was a Con-
servative measure. Now, how were these arguments
co-existent with each other ? It bad been said that we
were becoming more virtuous, and that bribers was at a
discount. He believed such was not the case, but that
. members of that house were becoming more skilful in
concealing their delinquencies. With regard to the fran-
chise being a trust, no doubt/it was, but the elector was
not answerable to the non-elector, but to his own con-
science only. It was absolutely essential that there
should be no artificial reetra'.nt on the elector. Ile re-
pudiated the argument that an extension of the fran-
chise would place it in the bands of those who would de-
sire to anon all property. He bad confidence in the
honour and conscientiousness of his countrymen. He
believed the ballot was the only means by which they
could protect the dependent classes. The people of the
country would never believe in the truth of the Whigs,
unless they supported the ballot. -
Mr. BENTINCK could not understand bow any one
could support the ballot. He had never heard an argu-
ment in favour of the ballot. It had been said that the
ballot had succeeded in America. He trusted that each
success would never_ be. seen in this country, if such
scenes as occasionally take place in the AMerican legis-
lature were to be taken as part of that success. The
proper title to a bill for the ballot ought to be a bill for
the prevention of the reaction of bribery. Under the
ballot it would be impossible to prevent bribery, which
would then go on for ever on a wholesale system.
(Great laughter.) That was an argument that met the
whole ease. Under the ballot every borough would have
its price, just like an article in a shop ; and the legis-
lature of the country would have debarred itself from
therefore,
eweorfe tthhaestaa.iddvTohcaotsees who supported the
1,
itGdeindenraolt TdliesOirelltPo SSOtoNp
tbakalliontg,
the advocates of the
voter'sbal-
thewl(i mouth. He might
proclaim his vote to ali the
object i f the ballot was to allow or
the
olfvhoet el; pleased
vote; butsecretlytbe
if he phased. He trusted that
would soon change their views übponn. gentlemen opposite
- subject.. The
country expected much from. them. Hitherto their ex•
peciations had not been met with diaappointment
Mr% A. B. HOPE said the hon. gentlemen ;h0 had
submitted the motion had at all events shown courage
in appealing to the example of America on the subject.
The ballot bad been tried on thirty-five millions of in-
habitants in France. 'What had been its effect there ?
Perhaps the supporters of the ballot did not think there
should be freedom of the press in this Country, or inde.
1 p-.ndence of the courts of law. The effects of the ballot
in France had been to suppress the press, raise the army,
and abolish the independence of the courts of law. It
was in the cause of liberty that he protested against the
ballot, and he did so with the example of France pro-
minently before hie eyes. He believed that the screw
had really been placed on the 101. householder employed
by the manufacturing intereat'. The ballot would place
the working man in the dilemma of either baying to tell
- the truth and lose his employment, or tell a lie , and
keep it. Another evil consequence would be that the
present incitement to vote at all would be wanting, for
under a system of open voting each individual in the
community Mt a pride in letting his neighbours know
that he really possessed political predilections. The ex•
periment had signally failed in America, where the cha-
racter of the individual was not thought of. (Hear.)
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that the friends of the ballot
contended that under it intimidation would cease. I s
opponents, on the other hand, 'maintained that the
-erciae of the franchise was a solemn trust. But would
the ballot produce secrecy ? Reasoning from the opera-.
tines of the system i America,itcould
- n
,he ballot did not secure secrecy. (Hear.) With the ex-
, caption of one State in the United States, where staled

---
r HE SUN,

envelopes were employed, every publicity was given to
the proceedings of an election. The late Governor of
Connecticut had addressed a letter to the Ballot Society,
in which he saidthat although many voters so contrived
their ballot-papers that they were not.made public, the
majority of voters in that State paraded their ballot
papers, preferring that the side on which they voted
should be known. The general practice of voting in the
United States—the country referred to as the model for
imitation—the country of native talent—the country of
revolvers—(a laugh)—was paraded as the one which
ought to be followed. (No, no.) In that country, how-
ever, as he had shown, the voting was practically open.
The mode of voting in the East India House was also
extolled by the advocates of the ballot, but the system
there employed was really quite as open to analysis as
the machinery for taking votes for members of Parlia-
ment. But was it possible to keep the fact as to which
way constituents would vote a secret ? If not, and the
ballot were adopted, how could candidates be permitted
to canvass ? (Hoar, hear.) If the ballot were to become
the law, the whole system of canvassing, the whole of
our electoral system, must b 3 given up. • Under a sys-
tem of optional secrecy the door would be opened to
coercion, and upon the supporters of the motion the
onus lay to prove that the-ballot would insure secrecy.
(Hear, hear, and cries for a division.)
Mr. MARSH had every reliance on the character of
the Australian colonists, and that it would work out the
destiny of the Anglo-Saxon race, but he was firmly con-
vinced that the ballot had worked injuriously to the
colonists of those lands. The source of all freedom was
responsibility. (Hear.) According to the hon. memher
fcr Bristol, the ballot had insured "respectability" in
Australia, but he (Mr. Marsh) had been credibly in-
formed that one of the first persons elected for the
colony of Victoria took his seat in his shirt sleeves.
(Laughter.) The honourable member proceeded, in a
humorous vein, to read certain proceedings in the Vic-
toria Legislature, the style of speech of the principal
interlocutor causing considerable laughter. A Mr.
"G.," in one of his debates, expressed a wish "not
only that the typhus fever might sweep away the
ministry for the benefit of the colonists (laughter), but
that the whole house might share the same fate"—a
wish for which the speaker was called to order by the
Attorney-General. (Laughter.) The Attorney-General
was then told that he might "grin," but that he was
" a miserable penny-a-liner," who had condescended to
write for some blackguard newspaper, and that he had
stolen his (tbe interlocutor's) spoons—language for which
the chairman ruled him "out of order." (Laughter.)
In another legislature one member wished another
" dead," then said he didn't, and deprecated the
blandishments of "soft sawder." (Renewed laughter.)
Mr. Marsh then continued to speak against the motion
of the honourable member for Bristol, stating his belief
that bribery and intimidation were daily increasing in
this country, which bad set its face against such prac-
tices. (Hear, hear.) If ever it was proved to him that
such practices were on the increase, he would vote fJr
the ballot. If ever the ballot was introduced, however,
he believed it would be through the wrongdoing of its
supporters.

AYRTON chimed the indulgence of the house, as
neither the noble lord the member for Tiverton, nor the
noble lord the member for
,London,, were prepared to
grapple with this question. For the last 150 years
penal statutes had been passed to secure the freedom
of election, and yet Parliament refused to sanction a
means of escape which would render all those penalties
unnecessary. The system of penal and repressive laws
had arrived at. its climax of absurdity (cries of " divide,
divide"). The ballot was not, proposed as a principle
in itself, but to give to the principle of free election (re-
newed cries for a division). With what would the ballot
do battle ? Primarily with bribery (ob, oh). -What a
mockery was it to Fay that bribery was not resorted to,
when it was well known that towards the end of an
election votes were purchased wholesale. (Oh, oh).
The ballot would next deal with intimidation. (Oh, oh).
He was well aware that this was a still more tender
point with hon. members. (Renewed cries of " oh, oh,"
and calls for a division). Secret voting would prevent
intimidation. (Oh, ob). Balancing the inconvenience
at ached to the ballot with those bound up with the
present system, there could not be a doubt that the
former were insignificant. As the system was practised
in Australia, it was utterly impossible to divine the
manner in which a man might vote. The plan of the
honourable member for Bristol was equally perfect
The honourable member, amidst the impatience of the
house, which induced him to taunt honourable members
with making a noise in order that they might not hear
the truth, demurred to the doctrine of a member of the
present Ministry, that "Education, Property, and In-
dependence" were to be the electoral tests. His own
election had not been an affair of influences. At that
election political questions had been examined by men
as intelligent as those whom he now addressed. (Oh, oh,
and repeated calls for a division).
Lord PALMERSTON—I am anxious to state a few
reasons why I cannot agree with my hon. friend, whose
speech I allow, with the hon. member for Norfolk,
although very humorous, was more deficient in argu-
ment than any of his former speeches on the same sub-
ject. The question is whether vote by ballot shall be
permissive or compulsory. If permissive, it will be a
trap to the timid ; it compulsory, it will be a gag upon
the freedom of the voter. Whether they be employers,
or customers, or landlords, they will understand why a
vote is given in seerst, and the consequence to the voter
w 11 be the sArrte whether the vote be given onenly or
stcretly. If the secret vote be cotepuieory, it is imp.,
restrictions upon the liberties of the electors of Eng-
land quite incompatible with our national feeling and
the principles of our constitution. But you must go
further; you must make it penal for a voter to state
how be has voted—(no, no, and bear)—yoti must pre-
vent canvassing—(no, no)—as your objet,t is to prevent
it being known how a particular individual votes. Take
Vie case of a shopkeeper, a tenant, or workman. His
vote is asked. Ile says, "I cannot state how I shalt
vote. I shall take advantage of the -law, or I eleall act
according to the law, and give my vote in secret."
Would a person exercising any influence be satisfied with
such au answer ? If a person makes a promise and
breaks it, it is introducing a system-of falsehood and dis-
simulation, instead of promoting those objects which
are to be promoted by this bill. (No, no.) I defy you
by y huinsn lames, by ba'lot'b xor other contrivance,
to prevent a person who wireies to know from ascertain-
ing bow an elector has given his vote. Publicity is an
essential principle of the British constitution. Tae elec-
tor has a trust, or why do you punish him for selling his
vote, sires every man has a right to do what he likes
with his own ? The principle upon which, bribery is
punished is that the vote is a trust, and that the voter
has no right to part with the. trust for his own private
advantage. All our political functions are exercised in
open day, open to all the consequences, and there is no
security for the exercise of political functions unless pub-
lic opinion can be brought to bear upon them. Those
who seek for secrecy in one political function ought to
extend it to many others to which I am sure they would
not be disposed to extend them. Vote by ballot would
put au end to party spirit, and party spirit is an essen-
tial element in the working of the British constitution.
Ou former occasions we had the example of the United
States given to us to follow. The hon. gentleman went
to such a length as to attribute to the ballot all those
qualities of inventive powers and all the prosperity which
tne Unite I States enjoyed, for unless he went to that
length he meant nothing. Setting aside the United
States, they now take refuge in the Australian colonise.
In the United States there is no secret voting, it is
by ticket voting, because it is customary to elect a num-
, tier of officers at the same time, and it is convenient to
place their names upon one ticket instead of voting
several times. They do not pretend to say that their
votes are secret. And I say that the feelings of the
people of this country would be opposed to secret vot-
it g. (Hear.) Do you think that the Blues and the Yel-
lows would go mute and colourless to the poll ? It is not
in the nature of Englishmen to do it—(hear)—and if
you accomplish your object you wi:l strike a blow at
the national spirit of the country. I will take the
example of our North American colonies' neighbours of
the United States, and acquainted with the working of
the ballot there. Have they adopted it ? No ; they have
seen the advantage of our system, and follow it them-
selves. Your law will not accomplish what you intend
it should accomplish. Great frauds will be occasioned,
even in the ballot-box, which I defy you to prevent. .11
will not accomplish the secrecy you wish for, and if it
did it would strike a great blow at the country; and as
it. will not afford the protection you desire, and as it will
inflict a great injury upon the public spirit of the people,
I cannot recede from the vote which I have always given
upon this question. (Cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT said he would endeavour to take up the
time of the house for a few minutes only. He had not heard
this question discussed for some three years, but during
his absence from the house he had formed a rather unfa-
vourable impression, from reading the reports in the news-
papers, of the way in which it had been received by the
house, who were disposed, he thought, to deal rather un-
fairly with his hon. friend the member for Bristol. Trey
seemed to have treated him somewhat rudely wheni he
brought this subject forward, as though it were not large
enough to occupy the consideration of the House of Com-
mons, and he (Mr. Bright) thought ho had observed a little
of this feeling to-night in what had fallen from the hen.
member for the Tower Hamlets. (Hear.) But he would
beg to say that this was not a small subject; it was not
one that they could hustle out of the door of the house,
and say they would have nothing to do with it, because
nobody in the country really cared anything about it.
(Hear, hear.) There never was a greater mistake than this
conclusion. He admitted that it was rather an unpleasant
questions wish
to
dismissesues if tßh
aa
tt wh
ee rhe
aad rseeaesno nmwa why yy
ut hnepyl
esahs os
na ltd
discussed there which had at length come to be welcomed
in the house by very large majorities, who had admitted
that their previous conduct upon them had been en-
tirely wrong. If they wanted to know what sort
of question it was, let them ask any portion
of ttre pspulation of the country who had expressed
taitwei,ish for Parliamentary reform. Hon. gentlemen oppo-
site,
was a very
when they went to their constituents did not see so
manyto reformers as those who sat on his (Ur. Bright's) side
of. h house, bat they must see quite enough to know that
many o ft
membershe ho.wu nshoeoof
thee ese
important question with their constituents
and the public, and if they wished to know how far mem-
bersors emthiheonaulf In
2sue2em3hn
ooca influenced dt
membersrh
recorded
cyao
r diot,e,
dowl themfetethtrhee this
assembledrs
vveo
rtayesskH onhuoi
tstwoi
nooflavCkooeumrt.hmeWonnhsoble lorl the member forg Tiverton dictator—
(cheers)—and came to this house to support him, had voted
e introducewools
D anythingt go to
iii favour of a proposition which he had treated to-night as
one which could only be advocated by idiots or fanatics.
(61 Oh, eh," and cheers.) He wanted to put to the house
At twos torra
itihaTh pointse
was onne
now
the
unwilling t
o
subject,and 12
into this country which was growing up across the Atlan-
tic, or on the other side of the Pacific. They required it
for their own interests and for their own security, Was
there a country in the world in which there was so much
colonial wealth by the side of such deep and miserable-po-
verty as this ? (Hear.) Did not the majority of the people

LONDON; WEDNESDAY

—whether in the counties or in the boroughs, consist of
persons who were struggling in business, and under the
pressure of a fierce competition? And was it mot clear from
this that this was peculiarly a country in which unfair in- •
fluence might be expected at elections; and if a remedy
could be suggested, was it not -a subject which the house
might be asked, at least, fairly to consider, and, if just, to
apply it. i(Cheers.) The noble lord the member for Tiver-
ton had spoken of the force of party feeling which waline-
cessary to carry on the Government of the country, and he
bad spoken of the manly spirit and great strength of that
feeling. But if that party feeling be strong must
not the position of men be raised in a correspond-
ing degree ? Did be not recollect what it was for which
they hat b ten contending ? Some ten years ago
there was a great question before the country—the
question of the corn laws. We were all, continued the
hon. member, exasperated upon that question. You com-
municated your wishes to the public. We charged upon
you crimes and•misdemeanonrs which you had not com-
mitted. But great feeling was excited, and if the election,s
on your side were influenced by your endeavours, so they
were also by the Anti-Corn Law League. When those
struggles were impending mans' feelings were under the
apprehension, on your part, that you were going to be
ruined, and upon our part that we were going to rid the
country of an unjust and iniquitous law. There was exas-
peration ou both sides ; but when there was so great
wealth on one side, and so much struggling poverty, temp-
tation,
and trial on the other, I say that power was brought
to bear upon that poverty, and the wealthy and the power-
ful acted upon the weak and the defenceless. (Cheers.)
In thousands and tens of thousands of cases, to my certain
knowledge, men went up to the polling-booth, not with a
lie in their mouths, but when they were asked how they
voted, by what they then and there did they committed
themselves in the face of Heaven to a lie as gross as ever
wee' uttered in the world. (Cheer..) And look at the
great prize for which you were contending the other day,
if theca had been a general election, in consequence of the
vote of confidence, which did not came off. (Cheers.)
Hon. gentlemen who were very anxious to continue in the
Government have made a very great struggle to bring
themselves back, and a friend or two with them. Thera
would have been abundance of party spirit and manly
feeling - (ironical and counter cheers)--and what would
have been the result ? I don't say you would have fought
harder than we should on our side. But the harder the
battle the greater the victory—the .richer •the prize the
greater would have been the struggle— the greater the
temptation to bribery the greater the incentive .to undue
influence. (Cheers.) In your elections, what is there that
would have enabled the weak to shelter themselves from
your power ? Their virtue would have succumbed to the
influences brought to bear upon them. (Cheers.) It is
not the noble lord the member for Tiverton who wants the
ballet. (Cheers.) I never advised the ballot for the sake of
the noble lord. I advised the ballot for the poor, the de-
fenceless, and the weak. It is the shelter whlch`common
sense and common morality have afforded in every com-
munity which has granted to its members the right to ex-
ercise the elective franchise. (Cheers.) And if we had never
seen anything of elections in this country—if we had only
studied the question in our closets, from what we have
read we should be led to the conclusions to which I have
endeavoured to lead the house. I believe it is a' farce to
bring any new evidence before the house, because with re-
gard to the facts of this case every member on this side of
the house and the other is equally convinced on the sub-
ject. But I have here a letter which was handed to me by
a gentleman who, while he lived, had a great deal to do
with election matters—thelate Mr. Coppock—who, though
he was connected with many election operations which I
should be very sorry to defend, and which I greatly regret
to believe to have taken place in the country of which I
am a citieen—•yet in public and in private was always the
advocate of any measure which should make it possible to
work election's in this country without impurity anti cor-
ruption ; •and he believed there was no weapon whatever
by which you could at all hope to s'rike dowii 'Undue in-
fluence and corruption at elections like the ballot. (Hear,
hear.) The hon. member then read the note, which was
dated Portobello, July 23—no year—and addressed to a
Mr. Welder ; and was in the following terms: ----" I under-
stand that you are in doubt which way to vote, and I de-
sire you to vote for Mr. Fitzgerald., If you don't do this,
yon leave my farm." (Laughter.) That was very laconic;
no tenant whatever, however obtuse, could mistake its
meaning. That letter was written to a farmer. Mr. Cop.
pock also gave him (Mrr Bright) at the same time two or
three extracts from letters written by solicitors ftei king to
be employed as agents. One was this, "I wish to know
whether lam to be retained again for Mr. —. I am
offered 25 guineas from the other side ; and if I don't hear
from you by two o'clock, I shall accept the offer." Another
was—" As every vote is of importance, I drift wish to
have or take any retainer ; as in the case of a scrutiny it
might be inconvenient; and I must rely upon you for pay-
ment on the same scale as last time." Another solicitor
wrote to say that his father-in-law had considerable inte-
rest-in the borough, and that several of his men had votes
which they would give to Mr. A--, but that a retainer
would be expected. Other letters went to the same effect
—offering services and expecting retainers ; being profes-
sional men they could not be expected to work for nothing.
Now he would ask the house the reason why these solicitors'
votes wore worth 25 guineas each ? It was bbCause these
men turned the screw ; they knew their influence over the
list of. voters, and that A, B, C, and D had small or largo
mortgages upon their property, and they knew that many
of the voters were under struggling circumstances; in fact,
they knew the private affairs of the larger number of elec-
tors, and before they were so essential to the candidate ;
and, therefore, when they were paid 25 guineas they got
more at the marrow of the subject than any other man
could do, and thus it was that all this machinery of lawyers
became apparent; and thus it was that the evidence showed
this intolerable working of the screw. (Cheers.) He sail
the noble lord the member for Tiverton did not want the
ballot. Well, rich people did not want many things that
the poor required. Laws were not so much in necessity for
the rich as for the poor, and it was for the defence of the
poor voters that they asked the house to grant the protec-
tion of the ballot. Out of doors the subject was much dis-
cussed, and would au), wan say that. Llum.., who ad v.ca,'...41
the ballot did not represent an enormous amount of opinion
in the country ? (Cheers.) Did they think the poor voters
could not batter tell whore the shoe pinched than the noble
lord the member for Tiverton? (Cheers.) Of course they
could. There was no question which would attract to its
banner so many persons as the ballot. They cool t pass n 3
Reform Bill without making it a part. They had been
given to un lerstand that something in the shape of a Re-
form Bill was in the contemplation of the Government ;
but he (Mr. Bright) did not place much reliance on the
statements. Governments did not live long now-a-days,
an I perhaps the Government might not live to next ses-
sion; and if they did live they might not b 3 able to keep
the promise. But he begged to tell the Government ---and
they had already exhibited seine good points—that if they
should introduce a Reform Bill, and not add to it a clause
conferring vote by Latta on the people, they would tint
existing constituencies show no enthusiasm for their mea-
sure. (Cheers.) The great body of the people would regard
such a bill as another mode of subjecting them to another
species of degradation. (Cheers.) The noble lord the mem-
ber for London once brought in a Reform Bill, so called—
though it was no Reform Bill at all—and subsequently
thousands of people, at a meeting at Stockport, declared
that the franchise would be of no use to them without the
ballot was included with it, because hundreds of these men
worked for one particular employer, or one firm of em-
ployers; and although he (Mr. Bright) did not believe that
manufacturers would exercise this power more than dand-
ier•ls in counties did, yet when they came to a fierce and
exciting contest he would not trust any poor or defenceless
countryman to the tender mercies of either a landlord or a
manufacturer. (Cheers.) There were several members who
proposed a reform in Parliament, but he b dieved the noble
lord the member for London was the most sincere in his
convictions upon the question, though at present he (Mr.
Bright) confessed he thought the noble lord felt :.frail of
disturbing other things. (Rear, hear.) The noble lord the
member for Tiverton hall been paraded through the coun-
try as a great reformer ; not only was he to settle things
abroad, but he was to do everything at home. Well, every-
thing abroad was loft in confusion, and nothing at home
was done by the noble lord— (cheers)—and the noble lord,
in answer to the hon. member for Finsbury (Mr. Dun-
combo), with a frankness which he (Mr. Bright) ad-
mired, admitted that the Government of which he was
the head had not prepared a Reform Bill.' They
might have talked about it, but there was no bill
ready ; he was in favour of a bill for reform, and if ho had
been in office he would have brought one in. He (hlr.
Bright) was not going to make a charge against the noble
lord for not keeping his promise. (Hear.) Then the right
hon. gentleman-opp.osite was in favour of reform, and there
were many persons who thought that the bill of the present
Government would be a good one. At any rate the present
Government wore getting rid of property qualification, and
that would be a groat achievement. (Cheers.) lion. mem-
bers opposite were more reasonable than they formerly were,
and were not half so frightened as they used to be when he
(Mr. Bright) first knew them. (Laughter.) Thus the right
hon. gentleman and the two noble lords were going to re-
deem their promises ; and the right hon. gentleman the
member for the University of Oxford (Mr. Gladstone) had
agreed to a reform bill when a member of Lord Aberdeen's
Government. Bat would the Reform Bill be for the
people? They must please that great body of the people
who since 1832 had been increasing in loudness and unani-
mity on this question ; and was it not a fact that every pe-
tition presented in favour of Parliamentary Reform had
asked to have included therein the ballot ? (Cheers.) Was
it not a feet also that every public meeting, attended by
hundreds and thousands of the people, resolved to have the
ballot. (Cheers.) There were men in the country who had
thought of this subject a great deal more than the noble
lord the member for Tiverton had considered it, and they
thought that without exception secret voting should be
made the cardinal point in the new Reform Bill. The
noble for 1 might get up and say that he hail the argu-
ments ad nauseam, but the people had not them to that
extent. (Cheers.) They were determined to have this
measure ; and they knew that if they rapped louder and
longer the house would listen to them as they had done
on other questions of groat importance to the interests
and welfare of this country. (Cheers.) He declared that
he had never advocated the ballot as a democratic
measure. It was, he knew, the charter of freedom to
the poor man, but if it wore established to-morrow, ho
did not believe it would very materially
Lion of members at the opposite side of the house. Ho ad-
vocated the ballot not because it was a democratic measure
but because he believed it to bo wool and just, and he
was persuaded that if Parliament were to pass a hundred
of the
bills to reform the representation people, none of
change the posi-
them would do so much to effect that object as the little
bill of two or three clauses which the hon. gentleman the
member for Bristol had invited them to pass that day.
The party with whom he ( Mr. Bright) acted were in a little
difficulty, which he would endeavour to explain. The
noble lord the member for Tiverton—(laughter)—.that was
not the difficulty--had been Pi ime Minister for three
years, and had occupied at successive periods many high
offices in the State. He could not avoid showing his con-
tempt for the cpiniona of the great majority of those who
had kept him in office. The noble lord the member fur
London had also been Premier and the leader of the great
Whig party, but the spoils of office had fallen to his lot to
some extent as to-that of the noble lord the member for
Tiverton and his colleagues. If the Liberal party were to
bu I
act under leaders as a great party, it stood to reason that
there must be some sort of accord between those who led I
and those who followed. (Hear.) How could the Liberal
party follow the noble lords an 1 right hon. gentlemen who
had no respect for their followers ? He admired the con.
sistency shown by the noble lord the member for the City
of London, bat he had lived long enough to see consistency
advocated with great disadvantage to the country, and in-
consistency
r ce
'tried t
attended with great advantage. He looked
mepeornelythaesbaamllaitehnnotetry sofoner
with advantage in Belgium, in America, in Australia, and
other pieces, and ho was in favour of trying it here. He
did not therefore think, looking to the experience which
we had of it in other places, that it would be inconsistent
for any hon. member to say that as there 'was so much
utackhin a:vaotegsr.e alt phaidn biepeln
unanimity out of doors in favour of this great experiment, 1
he was willing to try it,, although he might think that
the good likely to arise from' it was very gravely exag.