The Sun.
London, England, 1867-05-04 00:00:00

upon the people to purchase the bonds of the Irish
Republic, alai that in 60 days from that time the
blew would be struck for Irish independence. I
attended meetings of the organisations subsequent
to March, 1866. I saw the bonds of the Irish Re-
public circulated at the meetings. The object of
the other meetings that I attended at, as expressed
by the members of the organisation, was to raise
money on the Fenian bonds. I heard John
O'Ma.hony state at one of the meetings that he
hoped to have sufficient money to enable Stephens
to commence fighting by the fall of 1865. I ceased
to be an active member of the organization after
March, 1866. Previous to that I held the position
of secretary to a circle. The circle was called the
Rogers' Circle. Thomas F.Burke succeeded Rogers
as District Centre for Manhattan.

This witness was cross-examined by Mr. Butt,
but without shaking the effect of his evidence.

John J. Congdon was then examined by the
Attorney-General. Ile repeated the evidence given
by him on the previous trial with reference to his
being in the Federal army, and his connection with
this Fenian organisation. He stated that- in the
month of August, 1865, he was sent by J. O'Ma-
hony, the head of the conspiracy in America, to
Ireland. After coming to Dublin he attended a
meeting in the house of J. Doniffe, a tailor, in South
Anne-street, where he and the officers with him met
Stephens, Rossa, Duffy, Brophy, and other men
who held high positions in the organisation. He
proved he met the prisoner, M'Afferty, ip Dublin,
in February, 1866. He was introduced to witness
as Captain M'Afferty, of the Confederate or rebel
army, who had served in Morgan's guerillas. There
was no statement made at that time that he belonged
to the Fenian Brotherhood. All the others present
were Fenians. Met several Fenian officers fre-
quently while he remained in Dublin. Saw Colonel
Kelly, Gen. Halpin, and others. Met a person
named JAn Flood. E, Duffy was the Fenian or-
ganizer for the province of Connaught. Witness
was sent to Liverpool and ordered to remain there.
He was receiving Fenian pay at the time: Captain
O'Rorke, who was known by the name of Beecher,
was paymaster. Met the prisoner next in Liver-
pool, January, 1862. Saw him with Colonel Kelly,
John Joseph Rogers, Captain Dunne, and others.
Saw them at a meeting in Brickfield-street, in
Liverpool, one of the head-quarters of the Fenians.
They stated that Stephens did not mean to fight,
and that they would not put up with his nonsense
any longer, as they had come to have a fight.
M'Afferty was at that meeting, and was near enough
to hear that statement. In the month of February
be again saw the prisoner in Liverpool. Late in
January there was a meeting in Liverpool about
forming a directory. There were only American
officers present. Captain O'Rorke, who was in the
chair, stated that the organizers had come to the
conclusion that Stephens did not intend to right. He
wanted them to depose Stephens, and they them-
selves to constitute the authority of the Irish Re-
public. He further told them that the Head Centre
in. England, Flood, left there by Stephens's instruc-
tions, and bad joined the directory as well as Capt.
M'Afferty. He wanted to know if the American
officers then in Liverpool would sanction the names
of M'Afferty and Flood as members of the directory.
,The meeting agreed to the names being adopted.
Saw M'Afferty and Flood iu Liverpool about the
7th or 9th of February. A meeting of Fenians was
held afterwards, at which they stated that they
came from London, representing the directory.
They stated that they brought some money amount-
ing to about £2O, which was for the purpose of
paying the way of the officers there to Chester,
where the Castle was to be seized on the following
Monday. The witness proceeded to give evidence
as to his having given information to the authorities.
About 500 persons had got into the train at Birken-
head to go to Chester, when a man named Gibbons
spoke to witness and said that he had been directed
by Capt. M'Afferty and the Fenian authorities in
Chester to tell all hands to go back, as " the
affair" was sold. Witness was afterwards sent to
Dublin to await further orders. A meeting was held
in a small shed near the canal, off Brunswick-street,
at which information was given with reference to
the night when the rising was to take place. Wit
ness was directed to go to 3.e1i11-street, in the county
of Cork. The meeting was held about a week be-
fore the rising. At a meeting in the Zoological-
gardens in Liverpool, O'Rorke paid 30s. to each of
the officers in order to keep them in Ireland until
the rising would take place. O'Rorke stated
that there would be French and German officers to
head the rising in Ireland. He did not say what the
movement would be. They were all to receive in-
structions, O'Rorke said, when they got to Dublin.
The prisoners Flood and Edward Duffy were then
put forward and identified by the witness.
This witness was cross-examined at much length
by Mr. Dowse, Q.C., but nothing of importance
was elicited.

Mary Anne Day was then called, but in conse-
quence of a misdescription it was ruled that her evi-
dence could not be heard. She was described as an
innkeeper at Chester, but it appeared that her
mother, Mrs. Evans, was the keeper of the King's
Head Inn, and she (witness) had no share in the
profits of the establishment.

Mr. Bray, examined by Mr. Macdonogh—l am a
detective officer iu the city of Chester. I know the
prisoner. 1 was on duty in the city of Chester on
the 11th of February. I first saw him between 5
and 6 o'clock on the evening of that day. I saw
Lim at the railway station in company with another
Than, I saw the other man several times during the
day. (The prisoner Flood was then put forward
and identified.) I first saw Flood about 9 o'clock in
the morning on the railway platform. I did not see
21.`Afferty there. About 30 men came by the train
that came in from Liverpool at half-past:9 o'clock.
They appeared to be working men. They all left
the station together. I saw Flood addressing those
men. He went among them and spoke to them,
and then went away. The men then left the plat-
form and then went up the town. By the next train
about 100 men of asimilar appearance came to Ches-
ter, and went in a body up the town. I remained at
the railway station till 12 o'clock. Several trains
from Manchester and Warwick came in in the mean-
time, and about 50 people, apparently working men,
came by each. They kept together in bodies, and
went up the City-road. I remained at the station
and saw other trains coming in. Numbers of per-
sons came in by each train. There wereabout :O(' of
the same class of persons by those trains. They kept
in bodies. 1 went into the city and soon came back
to the railway station, where I remained for about
two hours. About three trains came in during that
time, and numbers of men came by them. About 4
o'clock I went to the police office again, then to the
railway station. Between 5 and 6 o'clock a train
came in from Manchester, via Crewe. There were
men in the carriages, but they did not get out. A
few came out. I saw both M'Afferty and Flood at
that time. I eaw them speaking to the persons in
the train and those on the platform. All compart-
ments of the carriages- were filled. They appeared
to be through passengers from Holyhead. I don't
know where M'Afferty and Flood went to. They
did not go away by the train. I was at the station
again about 7 o'clock, and I remained there till 12
o'clock at night. While there I saw 11PAfferty and
Flood. I saw them go into a train for Birkenhead.
Next day I assisted in making a search near the
railway station, and I found a large quantity of
ball cartridges in the railway field, and a number of
Pistols and bullet moulds in the canal. Altogether
about 1,200 or 1,300 strangers came into the town
that day. I saw some of them going by the Liver-
pool and some by the Manchester trains. About
4,000 of the Guards came to Chester that day. I
know the Castle of Cheater Iknow there was a
large quantityofa,rtsasotfl various kinds belonging to,
her Majesty in the
vions F riday. e. I saw them on the pre-
There were about 100 soldiers there
at the time. The volunteers at Chester were under
arms early on that day.
The Lord Chief Justice—ls the Castle a stroncr
place ?—No, my lord. 0
The witness was cress-examined by Mr. Butt, but
nothing important was elicited.
The Court adjourned at 20 minutes past 6 o'clock
till 10 o'clock this morning.
The Special Commission for the trial of Fenian
prisoners was opened at Cork yesterday in the

LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 4, 1867.

-----..--

There is, fortunately, still time for the Council of
the Reform League to illustrate the wise old adage
that " Discretion is the better part cf valour," by
abandoning the
proposed asEenibly on Monday, or
at lout by adjourning it to some 1120:q Auitablepotii,

ion than Ilyde Park. They may possibly be re-
luctant to make any concessions to law, to autho-
rity, or even to public opinion, but they can scarcely
think it dignified for themselves or creditable to
their cause to become associated in the public mind
with rioters and disturbers of the peace. Their
aocante
that
e ecacnl deu
possible
period
eirrisnioyoGgril de
Government
theloepielai
lastrvl
rsieens
precautions
na:rtunerehi
tni
yei
evening,
attention.l
Ig‘tvms
wed
ere
oaerttfweno:
pdhharAacaertil
though
Parliament
ms
suogldpsri
eAel
latnseLonnet.
pryoafvoovvdei
while:oedEari
avoid
ci
dooadennnecsoyf upadni.
declared
eneort
del
-f
Itl
dpri
disturbance
nntcghesa
otofrt htrchiroeet willteha ogubugee
hr s not
lteeisfocvtreherneni
resmeet uewi rnsibtttaashkon. cnnhi elgeel.
he
have a sufficient police force in reserve, and
givenFermis-
oto as
unnecessary
special
residentshe
o
eas:.tbhhi
ee:v;
Gi c
inT hi taypopf the
scll'aeaunrtkii loatnossbu -obaeereesnuotrn inThese pre-
to think, since the' cost of reglazing the window
s
frames of a large West-end house is an unwelcome
expense to some householders, notwithstanding that
it may assume the form of a forced contribution to
the Reform League. Mr. BRIGHT has come for-
ward as the champion of the Leaguers, and made a
lengthened speech in their behalf, but as he also
presented a petition on behalf of the Fenians his
advocacy lost something of its value. Mr. BRIGHT
holds that great meetings in England are never
provocative of breaches of the peace. Whether the
Leaguers' demonstration came under the bead of
" great meetings" or not may be uncertain, but if
the hon. member for Birmingham, in his monopoly of
the study of hiatory, has not altogether overlooked
the records of his own time, he may remember that
some five years ago Hyde Park Was the theatre
of a series of "great meetings" to demonstrate
popular sympathies respecting GARIBALDI and the
POPE. Sunday after Sunday the Park was the
scene of riot and serious disturbance. No toler-
ably respectable person could pass through it in
safety, and severe injuries were in many cases
received. It was tho stronghold of ruffianism till
the respectable half of London lost patience, and
vigorous measures were taken to put it
dfoorwunnv;ithandr,esoil
if we
that rememberno rightly,
forthwith
meetings
should be permitted in the Park. Mr.
BRIGHT asks " whether any number of persons have
not a perfect right to enter the Park ?" And taking
the affirmative for granted, he goes ou to ask
" whether they have not the right of standing
shoulder to shoulder, and of expressing their
opinions in a loud voice ?" A very loud voice it
must be if a hundredth part of the hundred thousand
men he would allow to assemble are to hear two
words of what is said. But who believes
that the demonstration of Monday is intended
for the delivery of speeches, which could be
very much better heard in the Agricultural Hall
or some other large building. We cannot think
Mr. BRIGHT free from blame in citing the conse-
quences to the Government of Louis PIIILIPPE in
refusing their sanction to the proposed banquets,
and we should think he had lived long enough in
London to know the sort of characters which every
mixed and noisy company attracts in the public
thoroughfares. In the case of great public proces-
sions the cause of order is always safely left to the
public themselves, but the very classes who keep
order on sight-seeing days, the steady mechanics,
the sober artisans out with their families, and the
general body of the working classes, will be the
very ones who will keep away from -Monday's
demonstration. The roughs, and idlers, and pick-
pockets will probably muster in strong force, hoping
for an opportunity for riot and plunder, and the
collection of these worthies at the Wet-end is not
a very creditable object of ambition.

We are glad to find that Mr. GLADSTONE has
thrown his influence into the scale, and, after his
appeal to them last night, the Reform League have
an excellent excuse for altering their programme.
The good sense and justice of Mr. GLADSTONE'S
remarks were indisputable. The working men, as a
body, were, he said, as loyal as any members of
that House, but it was not consistent with the
duty of such persons to place themselves in conflict
with those who were responsible for the execution
of the law. He advised them to conform to the
wishes of the Government; " so much, at least, of
respect is due to the Government as the adminis-
trators of the law, from the private individual, the
loyal subject of the QUEEN." Both sides of the
house, said Mr. GLADSTONE, fully agreed upon this
question, and we may hope his opinion will have '
weight. The members of the League can scarcely
wish to get mixed up in a discreditable disturbance,
especially as they have no shadow of a ground
for just complaint. They have been allowed
to hold meetings in Traf.►lgar-square, to form
processions through the streets, and they have had
the use of some of the great city halls. If the
object was to prevent them from discussitig the
Government measure, it would certainly not be
attained by keeping them out of the Parke. But
no English Government would dream of such a
hopeless effort. Mr. BRIGHT says that, had it not
been for these meetings, the Conservatives would not
have introduced a Reform Bill, and would, conse-
quently, not now occupy the Government benches.
This is another instance of the hon. gentleman's short-
ness of political memory, since the Reform League was
not heard of in 1859. We cannot think that the
present agitation is at all likely to further the inte-
rests of Reform, and we arc not surprised that Mr.
WALroLE should have received a memorial signed
by some thousands of persons against it. The
ambition of Englishmen has always hitherto been
to combine political liberty with universal respect
for law. The desire of the Leaguers appears to be
the substitution of what Mr. NE.L.TE ca11ed...." A
Parliament in the streets," in which the noisiest and
most aggressive become the most important,

The announcement which the Chancellor of the
Exchequer made to the Ilouse last night concerning
the course which the Government would take about
the inestion of residence is just what was expected
by all parties, and it is one that is so evidently
suggested by common sense that there is scarcely
any need to comment upon it. The Ministry have
resolved to defer to the decision of the committee.
There was little or no excitement in the Ilouse
when the decision was mado known, because
it was pretty generally anticipated, but of
course a few remarks were made. Mr.
Iloes'stAN, vexed that all his efforts to put an
end to discussions upon Reform for this year were
unavailing, took care to quote from the letter which
Mr. DisRAELI had sent to his supporters previous
to the division ; but this was soon disposed of by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer. These observa-
tions upon past doings and speeches seem quite the
rage just now; but it is a very idle sort of argu-
ment at the best, and in the present instance it was
an inconclusive one, because Mr. GLADSTONE'S
amendments were framed so as to upset
the Government if carried, and it was. essential
that they should be met with a direct negative.
It was the more unfair of the latter to go on in this
manner, because it infused a wrong element into the
Committee, and rendered the 'consideration of the
bill a party que4tion, instead of a subject upon which

the House met to consider upon common grounds of
interest and importance. At any rate the diffi-
culty has been got over, and that is the chief thing
to think of, and all other inconveniences are quite of
secondary consideration in them:tatter. Mr. Dis-
RAELI expressed the regret which the Government
experienced in having to relinquish their proposal
for a two years' residence, but he said also, which
was very true, that " every candid mind must feel
that the course which they had taken, upon due con-
sideration, was one consistent with their character
as men of honour and the duty which they owed to
their country and the Crown." We consider the
remarks of Mr. llonsmAN as factious and ill-timed,
and those who think of following in his track had
better look to the importance of the question at
issue, and not perplex those who have already
enough on their hands. Mr. DISRAELI also explained
that the Government would insert an amendment
in clause three to remove all " ambiguity" as to the
position of the compound householders, and a clause
will be moved to repeal the section of Sir W. CLAY'S
Act in reference to compounders and ten pounders.
All things taken into account the Reform Bill has
made great progress this week, and we trust it will
not be long before it is got through committee and
sent up to the House of Lords, for the public will
guraetsusraals this will
at so significant a sign of its pro-
will afford. To do this will rest with
the House, for the Government are sure to make all
needful exertions in the matter.

" Strange age that thus offers a premium for
crime," was said by one who exposed the fallacies
of the present day respecting the high consideration
in which criminals were held, and really Mr.
BRIGHT, and those hon. members who followed suit
to him last night respecting "the Fenian prisoners,
fully exemplified that description. A petition was
presented by Mr. BRIGHT which was couched in
such extraordinary terms that we are not surprised
that a motion was made that it should not be
allowed to lie on the table of the House. It
was as well that this was not agreed to,
for fear of misrepresentation on the subject,
but the protest was certainly not unreasonable.
Those who drew up the petition were either grossly
ignorant or absurdly indifferent. They actually
said that those who were made prisoners were men
" whose cause and offence were alike free from dis-
honour." This was a curious definition of those
who are committing the offence of high treason,
and endeavouring to subvert the Government of
the country. This is rot all, however, for the
petitioners furthermore declared that the state of
Ireland, in some degree, justified the course
which the Fenians pursued, and wound
up their claim by demanding that the
said Fenians should be treated on the principles of
" honourable warfare." "So are they all, all
honourable men," may well be added in connection
with them, we suppose ; but really we think Mr.
BRIGHT should know beater than to put hiinsAf
forward in such a cause. We are not surprised that
Lord NAAS should declare that the statements
respecting the treatment of Fenian prisoners
were much exaggerated, for we should have come
to the same conclusion without any answer being
officially given. It is quite contrary to the usual
management of convict prisons that there should be
any great hardship inflicted, and as for the notion
that the object was to degrade the prisoners that is
quite absurd, because in the sight of our impartial
judges they are degraded by conviction, the offences
of which they are convicted, and it would be a vio-
lation of the laws to consider them as prisoners of
war. Those who persist in these exaggerated state-
ments, and use this inflatel language, have a
great deal to answer for, and they du a great deal
of mischief, unintentionally no doubt, but not less
surely. It is high time that this folly should
cease ; and we are sure of one thing, that if there
has been an error of judgment on the part of the
authorities in Ireland, it has been on the side of
itiouoa
Imuchieeenecyy, towards file
added,indivi-
that has met with
no return whatever, but seems rather to have been
taken advantage of to prosecute further plans, and
to plunge still deeper into the plots devised against
the Executive.