The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-06 00:00:00

MARRIAGES (MOSCOW, TAHITI, AND
NINGPO).
This bill was read a second time.
JEWS BILL.
On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
The Earl of CLANCARTY said it appeared that Lord
Derby attached great importance to effecting a reconcilia•
tion with the other house. He (Lord Clancarty) did not
think that any light matter ought to stand in the way of
such an arrangement ; but they should not lose sight of
the fact _that there were three estates of the realm,
and theioought not to presume on the acquiescence of
the sovereign in a measure of this kind. The noble earl
referred to some cases in which George 111. had with-
held his assent from measures passed by both houses.
The Roman Catholic Emancipation Bill had only been
introduced by the Government on a recommendation
contained in the speech from the throne. Where a boon
was to be conferred on a class of her subjects, it was
respectfully due to the sovereign that she ought to have
bad an opportunity of recommending the measure in a
message to Parliament, if she really approved of it. The
Queen, by her position, was head of the Church and de-
fender of the faith ; and he could not suppose that she
would wish to associate in her councils Jews and unbe-
lievers. He wished to know, if her Majesty's approval
ksd not been gives, what course she would be advised to
adopt ? If this bill passed, what would be the position
of the Roman Catholic body, hound as they still were by
an oath not to use any influence they possessed to
weaken the Protestant religion as by law established.
This could not be a final settlement of the question, if it
led to an agitation by Roman Catholics—which had al-
ready begun—against the oath they were now obliged to
take. Was the noble earl prepared to stand by the Act
of 1829, and resist any alteration of the oath ?
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH said that uuder this
bill there was nothing to prevent a Jew from occupying
the position of Prime Minister ; but a Roman Catholic
could not do so. At any rate,_ words 'ought to be intro-
duced similar to those in the Roman Catholic oath, bind-
ing Jews not to use their influence against the Church
as by law established. He deprecated the measure being
passed in such baste.
Lord REDESDALE said it was unconstitutional and
extremely objectionable to allow the houses to act by
resolutions as this bill proposed. They would have cause
to regret deeply, either now or at some future time, if
they allowed so unconstitutional a measure to pass. He
implored their lordships not to be induced, by temporary
convenience, to establish so dangerous a precedent. It
had been recently held in the other house that a Jew
member might act on committees without taking the
oaths. Thus one concession followed another, and it was
impossible to say what they might come to. He was
anxious to see a distinction made in the bill in favour of
their lordships' house. (Hear.) It was desirable that the
provision as it was should only be made applicable to
the other house. The Jew had a nationality distinct
from that of the country where he was born and lived ;
and this was such as to incapacitate him for legislative
functions. This matter was one which he felt deeply; he
was not opposod to what was done, but the manner of
doing it.
After a few words from Viscount l'ilErnmoe,
Lord BROUGHAM said it was quite common for re-
solutions, not of a house of parliament, but of a court of
justice, to have the force of law. Scarcely an alteration
was made in the legal procedure but power was given to
the judges to issue orders for carrying it out; and these
orders virtually became a portion of the statute. He (the
noble lord) did not think the present was the best course
that might have been adopted, but still it was a course
to which he bad no solid objection. He found that he
had somewhat misstated the object of a bill on another
subject, which might be expected from the other house.
At present it applied only to members of the House of
Commons, but he had no doubt that the first thing their
lordships would do, when it came before them, would be
to make it include themselves.
The Earl of DERBY said that his noble and learned
1 friend put him in a somewhat unhappy predicament.
A number of noble lords had risen one after the other and
put questions to him, which he had had no opportunity
elle wed him to ans tier. Now, his noble and learned
friend entered into the discussion of another bill which
had been disposed of, and respecting which the noble
lord had delivered aepeech. He supposed his noble frietid
thought the subject was one upon which he must have a
few more last words ; and a little divergence from the
ordinary course might perhaps be allowed his noble
friend. (A laugh.) The noble earl (Lord Clancarty) had
suggested two different objections to the course their
lordships were about to pursue. In the first place, he
stated his opinion that in seeking to reconcile the views
of both houses of Parliament, their lordship were in
danger of coming in collision with the Crown. In a quei-
tion of this kind he was sure the last thing his noble
friend would be desirous of would be to bring into discus-
eion the perecnal opinions of the sovereign of the realm.
But he (Lord Derby) had not therlightest reason to sup-
pose that her Majesty would interpose her prerogative,
and he had no apprehensions of any rush collision as that
to which his noble friend had referred. Again; his noble
friend said that if it was determined to alter the law, the
proper course would be to send down a message from the
Crown. But the noble lord forgot that none of the bills
had been introduced on the part of the Government. Ss
far from the Government having assented to them, they
bad recommended their lordships to strike out that part
of the Commons' bill by which the proposed privilege was
conferred upon the Jews. But then the noble earl (Lord
Lucan) came forward with the bill now before their lord-
ships ; and by that men, ure each house was allowed to
take its own course, a plan which he (Lord Derby)
thought was the best they could pursue. The bill was
next objected to on the ground that it would place the
Roman Catholics in a position of inferiority as ennpared
with the Jews. But he (the noble earl) could not sea
how the bill ',placed Roman Catholics in a position of
inferiority. A provision had been introduced into
' the act of 1820 for toe purpose of meeting an
objection which was generally entertained by Pro-
testants. They were apprehensive that the Roman Ca-
tholics, being a rival body within the Christian Church,
were likely to avail themselves of their new position in
Parliament for the purpose of injuring the temp ralities
f the Establi bed Cturch. In Olds state of tin ago an oath
was introduced, and unhesitatingly accepted by the
Rerran Catholic body, by which they bound them-elves
not to make use of any of the privileges that might be
conferred upon theta for the purpose of injuring the
church establishment, an object which they emphatically
disclaimed. He (the noble earl) -id not believe that there
prevailed to any great extent any dissatisfaction with re-
gard to that oath, neither did he see how the admission
of the Jews could affect the question. Although they
no doubt thought the Christian religion an erroneous
one, he had never beard that they had any designs against
the temporalities of the Church of England. There was,
therefore, no reason why securities should be taken of
them, as had been done of the Rowan Catholics. (Hear.)
The noble duke (the duke of Marlborough) complained
that the bill did not impose the same limitations with re-
gard to presentations to benefices which were imposed
upon the Roman Cantonese Now, so far as referred to
presentations made by persons of the Jewish persuasien
in their private capacity, the bill introduced no alteration
whatever. The noble earl had consented to insert in the
bill the clause which had been omitted from the former
measure, placing the Jews, in respect to the retuatione
they might hold, on exactly the same footing as the Ro-
man Catholics. (Hear.) It would also be necessary to
introduce an amendment with regard to the oath of ab-
juration. His noble friend (Lord Rodeedale) had taken
an objection to the mode of proceeding by resolution;
but he (Lord Derby) could not see with the noble lord
any danger or possibility of stretching the 1311 beyond
the point that was intended'. It must be remembered
that the measure did not give the House of Commons
the power of passing resolutions generally, but only the
power of passing one specific rasolu ion for one epe-
chic purpose. Se, far, too, from the coarse they were,
following involving the creation cf Jewish . peers, it
would really. place an obstacle upon the exercise of the
royal prerogative in that matter, because it was an ex-
pression cf their lordships' opinion that no Jew peer
ought to sit in that house. Their lordships were not
abandoning their judement that it was not desirable for
Jaws to sit and vote in either House of Parliament, but
on the contrary their lordships maintained their pre-
viously expressed opinions, cud • had sent down to the
other stones reasons for doing so. All that their lord-
ships did was to say that on; of deference to the fre-
quently expressed opinions of the Commons—expressed
by constantly increasing majorities during the last ten
years, although he would admit that the question had
never been put to the constituencies—(near, hear)
their lordship said that, out of respect to teat frequently
expressed opinion of the Commons, they fit it right to
authorise a suspension of the law. (Hear, hear.) There
was no doubt as to there being prece lents for this
coarse. Thera was, for Instance, no law wk ch forbade
peers from voting for members of Parliament. On the
contrary, the law said that any person who possessed a
certain lialification should have a right to vote; and
what, then, prevented their lordships from exercising
tint right t Merely a resolution of the other house.
)ItloßlrYd
Loire CAMPBELL—You have no right to vote by
the common law of England.
aunedLaorl,erchtirepeaerEd. Tvlithhe:rr,at ent(Loofudthcorineosholef
tbaeLsptiaisteem.
was always of opinion that there was no
law whic% prevented our voting, but that our power was
taken away by a resolution of the Home of Commons.
Lord CAMPBELL—That resolution only declared
the law.
Lord LYNDHURST and other noble lords—No, res.
Ie lel DERBY should have felt bound to submit to
the autherity of the noble and learned lord if it had not
been for the emphatic denial of his noble and learned
friend near bin. (Flea*, hear.) However, there Yll3 this
advantage of Proceeding in the manner now sugge Aed.
If they passed an act of Parliament they would give the
Jew art absolute right t) sit in Parliament. But if they
ma rely aat'eori4ed a reeelution of the other house, that
resolution would remain in force only ea font.
as it
wh,
not rescinded, er ue Li! the end of the particular Parlia-
insnt by which is was passel. If there should le in the
country a etroeg feeling against the admission of Jests,
that feeling would no doubt be expressed at the nix•
election, and the resolution woe"! not be renewed ;
tee Jews, it could only
be rescinded by another act tf.
whereas, if they Passed an act cf 'Parliament admittine
Perliatrent. (Hear, hear.) For thitwe reagens, he thought
t isy wau'd be acting more consistently with the view
they had previousle expressed if they supported the bill
of Lis noble anti gallant friend ; and be trusted that by
sending the two billy down together as ono inseparabl;
act they would at length set this lerg vexed question at
rest. (Cheers.)

Lerd CAMPBELL rej,iced at the prospect there was
of settling the question. The law of the land Could not
be altered by resolutions of either house. In West-
winstzr-hall a resolution of the House of Commons, or
even of their lordships, would he treated as mere waste
paper, and with great deference to the noble earl, ancl to
the noble and learned lord, it was not by a TesOlution of
the House of Commons that peers were previ;Pted from-
voting fur representatives of the people, It, was by the

ancient immemorial law of England that peers had no
right whatever to interfere with elections, and they never
bad voted at thew. (Oh !) Noble lords had several times
tendered their names, but they had never been accepted
by the revising barristers. The resolution of the House of
I Commons was, therefore, only a declaration of the law.
• With regard to the proposal, therefore, to proceed on
the' resolution of the House of Commons, it had always
met with his most violent opposition ; and about this
time last year he had left his circuit to come to town and
protest against it. If such a course had been followed, he
should have had no hesitation in directing juries from his
judgment-seat to disregard the Commons' resolution.
But if the bill were passed the same authority would he
given to the resolution as if it were a portion of the sta.
tute itself. (Hear.) He should recommend their lordships
to content themselves with the present measure, to let
the other bill drop, and next year to repeal the oath of
abjuration. That oath was never thought of till the
time of William 111., and it was only intended for the
security of the new dynasty. At the present time, how
ever, there was no one that did not regard with loyalty
and veneration the dynasty upon the throne, and he saw
no reason why they should continue the oath. (Hear.)
Lord LYNDHURST said that so far as he understood
the amendments promised by his noble friend, the bill
would be in substance precisely the same as that which
he had himself introduced. With regard to the present
bill, certain alterations in it would be absolutely neces-
sary. He could not conceive that the noble and gallant
earl was the author of the measure. It must have pro-
ceeded from some other source. His noble and gallant
friend would have gone right to the mark, instead of
adopting the circui:oas and involved language of this
bill. He presumed his noble friend had consulted some
professiona' a'tsser —some gentleman who had been in
the habit of being paid by the number of words be em-
ployed. (A laugh.) This learned gentleman had abso-
lutely drawn the billlwithout taking the trouble of looking
at the oath of abjuration. The clause proposed to omit
the words, " acd I make this declaration on the true
faith of a Christian," words which did not exist in the
oa'h of abjuration, but which this learned person had
copied from the bill that had come up to them from the
House of Comm.,ns. (Hear.) He (Lord Lyndhurst)
had drawn his pan through all the words in the clause
that were superfiLous, and the result was as follows :
" Either House of Parliament may resolve that any per-
son who professes the Jewish religion, in taking such
oath may omit the words ' on the true faith of a Chris-
tian,'.and that the taking and subscribing such oath shall
have the same eff.ct as the taking and subscribing the
oath of abjuration in the form now required by law.'
(Hear.) in reducing the clause to this form he had
struck out four lines of rubbish at the beginning ; then ,
two lines more; then four lines more; then two lines
more ; and then two lines more—all of which answered
no end whatever, except to extend the clause. (Hear.)
After a few words from the Earl of DUGAN, who
was understood to agree to the bill now going through
committee pro forma in order that the amendments pro-
posed by the noble and learned lord might be printed,
The bill passed through committee, and was ordered
to be recommitted on Tnursday.
In answer to a question from a NOBLE LORD,
Lord LYNDHURST said he had postponed his own
bill sine die.

The County Courts District Bill passed through com-
mittee.

The Chinese Passengers Act (1855) Amendment Bill
also passed through committee.
Ths report of amendments to the Hainault Forest
(Allotment of Commons) Bill was brought up and
agreed to.

The report of amendments to the Durham County
Palatine Jurisdiction Bid was likewise brought up and
agreed O.

The County Management Bill was read a third time
and passed. _

Their lordships then adjoupued.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YEgTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.
Mr. COKE took the oaths and his seat for East Nor-
folk.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following bids were read a third time and passed :
—Clyde Navigation, Limerick and Castle Connell Rail-
way, Manchester South Junction and Altrincbam Rail.
way (No. 2), Tees Conservancy, and Warrington and
Stockport Rail way.
QUEEN'S COLLEGES (IRELAND).
Mr. FAGAN asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland
whether the report of the commissioners appointed to
inquire into the slate and condition of the Queen's
Colleges would be laid on the table of the house during
the present session
Lord NAAS said it would ; but he feared, from what
he had heard, it would not be till almost its dos..
INDIA. BILL—SELECT co.umirrEE,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice tbat on the
bringing up of the report on the India 13'11 he should
move the omission of clauses 27 and 23, relating to the
secret committee. (Hear, hear.)
TRAFFIC THROUGH ST. JAMES'S PARE:.
M.tjor SIBTRORP asked the First Commissioner of
Works whether (in the event of there being no va id ob-
jeation) he would take early steps for promoting the
convenience of the public, by permitting private car-
riages and public cabs, under the same restrictions as are
now in force between the Marlborough and Buckingham
Palace Gates, to go through St. James's-park, and out
at the south•eartern gate, near Storey's-gate, into the
Birdcag•-walk ?
Lord J. MANNERS said he had no power in the
matter. After the deckled opinion expressed by the
cutunii,,tee who sat two years since on the subj..,et, he
thought it would ba inexpedient for him to recommend
further facilities for traffic through the Park.

SUPPLY OF GUANO.
Mr. SCOTT asked the Secretary of State for the
Colonies whetl:er any recent communication bad been
received by 11er Majesty's Government on the Nilbiftt
of guano on the Kooria Mooria Islands : and whetber
there was any•oljection !ay on the table of the house
the papers relating thereto, in continuation of those pre-
sented in Anglia'. last.
Sir E. B. Lyrroig said recent communications Lad
been received in refereuce to this &;tibject, which he would
lay on the table of the hence.

THE WL'LLINGTON MONUMENT.
Mr. S. WORTLEY gave notice that on the first cup,
ply night he should call attention to the proposed arrange-
ments for the erection of a monument to the memory cf
the late Doke of Wellington.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA (No. 3) BILL.
Oe clause C 3, a postponed clause,
Mr. MONSELL called attention to the omission of
the continuants of Addiseembe College as a place for
training cadets.
Lord STANLEY said the words had been purposely
omitted from the bill, because it was thought better to
lay down the principle of the hill, mei leave the details
to be decided on hereafter more at leisure. He ex-
pressed the opinion of the Government that it was de-
sirable. those who went out as cadets should have served
some time in a military college, and he believed Addis.
combs had admirably answered the purposes for which
it was establithcd.
After some remarks from an Hole. MEeepen,
The clause, after some amendment, was agreed to.
Ciauee 35, a new clause, provid,e that one-tenth of
the whole number cf peraots to be recommended in one
year shall be given to the sous of persons who have
served in India.
After sonic remarks from LIE. BLACILBURN and Mr.
MiLeze,
Col. SYKES said the principle involved in the clause
hed been often•attempted by the East India Directors,
but the difficulty was of aseertainine, who had the best
at el it had is consequence broken down, and
been abancloeed by them. There was no necessity for
the clause.- The patro:rage saight be lift to the council
unbiassed and unteearraelled in any manner how they
should dispense it.
11r. V. Slab' said this clause would establish Lre-
ditary offices, it carried out universally It would be a
good principle to carry out in case.] where men had dis-
airolishee theremees, and he suggested an alteration in
the clause to that effect.
Sir E. Celebrooke, Sir F. Smith, Sir H. Rawlinson,
and Cal, Sykes having addressed the committee on the
clause,
Lord STANLEY defended its retention in the bill.
He apprehended there would be no difficulty in carrying
• the clause into effect other than ti.at the number
of deserving claimants -might be greater than the
vancaveies to be filed up. That was the case
in almost every case where patronage had to be
dispeneed. The way to get over the difficulty lie
had referred to was by adopting a limited competi-
tion in eueir cases. Since he heel been connect©d with
Indian affairs he had seen sufficient to be convinced
there were a class of Indian officers who would look
upon this, clause as the most vaerable reward they could
look forward to for their oh Wren.
Sir E. COLEBROOKE euegested the words after
served in India " with d.stinction" should be added.
Tao CEIA.NCELT cf the EXCHEQUER. said i
was objectionable to limit it,in the manner propossd ; i
would be better to leave it to the discretion of the corn
raiftee.

The clause was then added to the bill.
Oa 24-4, a new clause, providing that all pf:xsons
to be rPcornuieed.,d for military cadet"hiPs shall be no-
minated by the Secretary of State and members of the
Council, so that out of 17 rominations the Secretary of
State shall have two, and each member shall have one,
but no person so nominated shall be recommended un,
less the nomination be approved of by the Secretary of
State in Council,

Sir L. PER A' opposed clau.;e.
Lord S CANLEY:idefended the clatuo. •
Sir 11. li,AwLiNsazi and Mr. Lowe opposed t 1.3 clause.
Aftir some remar;s fro.n Col. Syg.E.s, the committee
divided. The nunabers were—
For
Against it.

IGS

,riti . 74
Tho clause was added to tl.e bill.
The minainino: (separate) clauses were then ngreed
Mr. ELL.IOI.I proposed to bring up a chime. He
feared clz,,t as the bill was now. framed it would be ;in-
possible to keep up the proper relative proportion in the
council, and therefore he proposed that a clause be in-
serted, remedying the ditbculty.
.Lord STANLEY opposed .the &awe. There was
Pait as veat a chance of the elected members obtaining
kho majority as the crown nominees. He did not wish
to fice•riny distinction kept up between the two classed
of membpre from the moment of, their election.
Mr.V. SMITH said that the intention of Parliament
Pra4 than there should be eight nominated and se:ven
elected rnepalprs, and to preserve that proportion was
rtheui4j;'et bom'friend'i els:use: --At present there
were nominated and elected members in tht Curt of

Directors, and he had never heard of there being any
invidious distinction kept u 0 between them.
Mr. ELLIOT said that the first elected member that
died would cause the numbers to become -nine and six,
which would be contrary 'to the intentions of Parlia-
ment.

• Sir F. SMITH said that the second election would
neutralise the inequality pointed out by the honourable
member.
Lord J. RUSSELL supported the clause, and recom-
mended the noble lord to consent to its adoption.
The clause was pat, and negatived without a division.
Mr. CAMPBELL moved the insertion of the follow.
ing clause :—" That with a view to enabling the Secre-
tary of State for War and the Commander-in-Chief of the
army for the time, being to have proper cognisance of the
constitution and organisation of our army in India, they
are hereby appointed ex-officio members of the council
for India."
Lord STANLEY opposed the clause as premature.
The whole subject would be referred to a commission of
inquiry during the recess, and the result of their labours
would be placed before the house at the commencement
of the next session.
Mr. V. SMITH asked whether there would be any
objection to laying a copy of the commission on the

Lord STANLEY would take some opportunity of
explaining the nature of the commission.
The clans' was withdrawn.
Mr. FAGAN begged to call the attention of the com-
mittee to the claims of Colonel Frith, of the Bengal
army, to compensation for pecuniary losses sustained by
him in connection with a regulation relating to the native
army of Oude. He had a clause on the paper which
would explain to the committee what the nature of Col.
Friths claim was. By a treaty passed in 1781 the East
India Company agreed to withdraw their troops, and to
allow the native prince to subititnte his own troops, pro-
vided they were commanded by a British officer. Colonel
Frith received the appointment, acd there was a consider-
able sum of money due to him in relation to it. He was in-
duced to raise a sum of money in order to liquidate arrears
of pay that were due to the troops, and the object of the
clause which he (Mr. Fagan) begged to submit to the con-
sideration of the committee was, to obtain for him that
compensation to which he was justly entitled. The sum
due to Col. Frith for the money he had raised was about
30,000/ , and that sum was admitted to be due to him.
He had shown that the debt was fairly and honestly due,
and he contended that. the time had come for the just
e3nsideration of the claim. The case should be disposed
of one way or the other, and the best mode of doing so
was by the introduction of the clause he now proposed.
Lord STANLEY declined going into the details of
the case brought forward by the bon, member, inasmuch
as it would be impossible to•do justice to it in a discus-
sion on the bill. He admitted that there might be some
valid claims against the former Government of Onde,
and that the transference of that government to the East
India Company did carry with it a certain degree of re-
sponsibility ; but he submitted that the settlement of
those claims, and the tribunals by which such settlement
should take place, could not properly belong to a mea-
sure of this kind—to provide for the future government
of India. Nor did he believe that the proposal of the
hon. member was the best for carrying out the object he
had in view. This class of claims, he believed, would be
,best inquired into by a commission upon the spot, and
he understood, that there was an idea to appoint such a
commission: •In that-case it would be obviously incon-
venient to have another tribunal here to take up any in-
dividisa! case, or any number of cases, (Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT remarked that though it 'had often
been admitted that some tribunal should boi established
to deal with these cases, no attempt had been made to
create such a tribunal—and the noble lord, though he
admitted the want, gave no distinct pledge that it would;
be supplied. He (11r. L'righi) did not think a corn-
mission would be the most suitable tribunal, which be
though ought rather to be formed of a certain number
of judges of the land acting under the responsibility
of tueir high office. But as it appeared to him, the,
government of India had always been afraid of any
such tribunal being constituted, because they knew that
there were many oases in which inju dice bad been done,
and that they might have to refund large sums of
money, which was just what they were most anxious to
avoid.
Mr. GLADSTONE, so far from blaming the East
India Company for resisting the claim referred to by the,
hon. member, considered that they were entitled to great
credit for having, regardless of personal consequences,
resisted that and other similar claims in the interest of
the people of India.
After a few words from Mr. Y. SMITH and Colonel
SYKES,
_ _

Mr. FAGAN consented to withdraw the clause, and
withdrawn it was accordingly.
Mr. Gl...limos): and Mr. D. SErmourß postponed the
clauses of which they had given notice until the bring-
ing up of the report.
The preamble was then agreed to, and the house re-
sumed. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply
to Lord J. Russell, stated that the report would be
taken to-morrow (this) afternoon, and that the bill would
be reprinted in the evening.
UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the question that this bill, as amended, be con-
sidered,
Col. SYKES moved that the magistrates and council
of the city of Aberdeen be heartily themselves or by
counsel against the bill.
The LORD ADVOCATE said, when he (the Lord
Advocate) had the honour of being made Lord Rooter
of the University of Aberdeen, he was asks +, as any
person occupying that position would have been asked,
what were his opinions with regard to the union. To
that question he replied by saying that he had only
turned his attention to it in a very general way ; but,
from what he understood of it, he was inclined to the
opinion that the uniVer.ities should be united, and the
colleg s separated. He had occasion to study the mat-
ter subsequently, however, with the view of being ex-
amined before a committee, and he then came to an
opposite conclusion, though that which he had mentioned
to the 'house was rosily that which he formed at the time
to his appointment as rector, with the best information
which ho then po sessed. He would, then, leave it to
the•housse to ray whether he had not acted more honestly
in acting upon the opinion which, upon mature reflec-
tion, he had been led to form, than in continuing to pro-
fess that which he no longer thought. (Hear, hoar.)
The motion was negatived without a division.
Mr. GLADSTONE moved to insert before clause 15
the following words :—" It her Majesty shall be pleasee,
at any. time within the duration of the commission,' to
grant a charter for the foundation of a National Uni•
versity for Scotland, the Scottish Universities named in
this ac: or any of them, may, if they shell think fit, sur-
render to the Commissionere the power of examining
for and of granting degrees, with or without the excep-
tion of degrees in theology, and to become colleges, one
or more, as the case may be, of the said National
University."
Tee motion was agreed to.
Mr. DUNLOP moved a clause for relieving the prin-
cipals and certain profiseors'from their exemption from
the operation of the act of 1853.
The LORD ADVOCATE objected to the clause as
it now stood, but would not have done so had the hon.
gentleman proposed that the question, as regarded
Aberdeen, should be left to the commissioners. (Hear.)
He did not think his hon. and learned friend the mem-
ber for Greenock would come forward to, disturb the
arrangement that had been made'under the act, unless
he hart strong reasons for doing so.
After a few words from Mr. DUNLOP and Lord
DUNCAN,
Lord ELCHO said a compromise was made on the
former cccasirm when the subject of tests was before
the house, which, he thought, should not now be dis-
turbed ; and he woud therefore support the views of the
learned lord.
Mr. BLACKBURN entertained a similar opinion.
After a fete words from the LORD AlavocAmc in ex-
planation, the house divided, when the numbers were--
For the clause .
Against it
53
Majorityfor the clause —24
The clause was then agreed to, and was ordered to be
added to the bill.
Mr. DUNLOP then moved the insertion of another
clause to the effect that no distinction should hencefor-
ward be recognised among the professors of Glasgow
University.
Mr. BLACKBURN hoped the house would not agree
to this &setae.
Mr. BUCHANAN said the change recommended by
his hon, and learned friend (Mr. Dunlop) was one quite
in accordance with the feelings of the citizens of Glas-
gow, who were deeply interested in the prosperity of the
University.
The LORD ADVOCATE supported the clause be-
cause it went on the principle of putting, in future, all
the professors of colleges on the same footing, and that
would have a great effect of removing hearthurnings and
jealousies.
The clause was then agreed to, and added to the bill.
On the clause being • proposed, appointing the number
of the commission,
Mr. CAIRD moved that the name of Mr. Dunlop, the
member for Greenarck, be added to the list.
After some discussion the name was inserted.
Col. SYKES, in page 8, clause 16, moved to insert
" that a faculty of arts being such as shall afford a course
of education sufficient to qualify etudents to be examined
for degrees in arts, shall he maintained, in each of the
said King's College and Marischat College."
After a fee, observations from Lord HADDO,
The LORD ADVOCATE said that the difference
between the clauses as they steed and this amendment
was very small indeed: The clauses provided that the
commissioners should determine the number of pro-
fusions, with a discretion as to what was necessary in
other casee, of which this was one. He thought it was
better to leave this to the discretion of the commissioners.
He must, therefore, oppose the motion.
The house then divided--
Fur the amendment 47 •
Against it
Majority
Mr. BAXTER. moved the following proviso to the
clause :—" PrOvided also, that it shall not be lawful for
the Cerninissieuers to apply any portion of such money
for the salaries of principals or professors required tr
subscribe a religious test, and not included in the pro
visions of the 16th-and 17th 'Victoria, chap. 89."
Mr. ELLICE, jue.,•defied the ingenuity of any mar)
to say there:was anything ,unfair in the bill new before
the house,. 'lt was, in hiseepinion, a bill entirely free
from allz-ectatian character, and was free, also, frorn
anything whatever of preindic?. (Hear, hear.) II
should, therefore, meet the proviso of his hon. friend
with his most decided opposition. He certainly Saw a
growing opposition to votes for theological chairs in this
house, a3Tin the case of Ireland, and having voted against
them, to be consistent, he felt that he could /lot support
any distinct vote for them in this case ; but he, never-

theless, felt that the theological chairs in their universi-
ties ought, in order to make them efficient, to be main-
tained respectably ; and he therefore hoped the com-
missioners would, out of the existing _finds at their
disposal for such purposes, allocate a sufficient sum to
support the theological chairs in the Scotch universities,
in a manner to enable the principals and professors to
discharge their duties with the dignity and efficiency
which should appertain to them.
The committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the proviso
Against it
Majority against it —l6
The bill was then ordered to be read a third time to-
morrow (Tuesday),
SALE AND TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND)
BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill, when
Mr.-DOBBS moved an amendment on clause 87,
making the duty uniform in all cases, and fixing it at 11.
per cent, on all property instead of 10s. per cent. on
property under 10,000/.
The amendment was withdrawn owing to some infor-
mality, and
Mr. VANCE moved an amendment to reduce the
rate to an uniform duty of 108, per cent.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON opposed the amendment, as
it would prevent the court being self-supporting, as it
was intended to be.
Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD thought there should be
a maximum duty of 1/, per cent. to be graduated accord-
ing to the rule of Court. Tie thought it was proceeding
upon a wrong ground to attempt to make the court self-
supporting.
Mr. WHITESIDE contended that the plan proposed
by him was just and equitable. The bulk of the pur-
chasers were in truth under 10,000/. At the per tentage
fixed, 15,0001. a year would be the result, exclusive of
5,0001., which they expected to out of the Bank;
and 20 Num,
000/..would be amply sufficient, 'they calculated,
to defray ail the expenses of the court. So long as the
poor paid Ea ainps and fees, so should the rich.
After a few words from several Hon. Membere,l
Mr. WILSON said the proposition of the Attorney-
General for Ireland was contrary to recent legislation,
to all commercial practice, and all sound principles of
social science, and be' hoped the house would not agree
to it.

Mr. WALPOLE said the principle on' which the bill
was framed was an exceedingly simple one. The object
of his right hon. friend was to achieve an, object of great
importance to individuals, and at the sarn.e time to make
the court self supporting. (Hear, hear.) The whole
matter amounted to this, that if parties having a large
estate to dispose of thought that one par cent. was too
'high a price to pay for the advantage, they would not
come into the court at all. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ORMSBY GORE would vote that the court
should be,self-supporting.
Mr. VANCE said his only object was to have a uni-
to roe rate, and not to prevent the court from being self-
arepporting.
The-committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment • 104
Against it
Majority for the clause —l3
Mr. WHITESIDE moved to add, at the end of the
clause, a provision to enable the Lords of the Treasury
to lower or raise the rate of duty from time to time
within the limit of the maximum, according as the rate
obeli seem sufficient to provide a fund for the support of
t'ee Court. ,
The motion was agreed to.
Colonel GREVILLE next moved to add a proviso at
the end of the clause, that no such dutee be payable in
respect of property sold in pursuance of an order of the
Commissioners of the Encumbered Estates Court, made
before the passing of this act. The Government could
not consistently advocate a retrospective action in this
clause, and his motion should be acceded to as a measure
that was only reasonable and fair.
Mr. WHITESIDE consented to the motion, which
wrs then. agreed to; and the clause, as amended,
ordered to stand part of the bill.
On clause Bs,
Mr. ENNIS moved to leave out the words, " public
securities," and insert " public funds ;" and to add, " or
in the stock of the Bank of England, or of the Bank of
Ireland respectively." He thought it was highly im-
politic to exclude the public money from these invest-
meets, and he felt sure the concession would work ad-
vantageously.
Mr. J. G. HAMILTON consented to the first part of
the amendment, but objected to the latter.
The first amendment was then agreed to, and the last
negatived.
After a desultory discussion, in which several mem-
bers took part, the clause was agreed to, as were also
clauses 80 and 90.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for Ireland movedi
the insertion of a clause to follow clause 51. The effect
of this clause would be to cause due. publicity to any
application to the court for a declaration of title, such
declaration not to be signed by the judge until the ex-
piration of three calendar months after the publication
of the rule.
- Agreed to.
The preamble was then agreed to, and the house re-
sumed.
CLERK OF PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
The house went through committee on this bill.
CIVIL BILLS, &c., (IRELAND) ACV AMEND-
MENT BILL.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for Ireland moved
the second reeding of this bill.
Mr. COGAN objected to proceeding with the bill at
PO late an hour (a quarter to one o'clock). He 'moved
that the debate be now adjourned.
The motion was agreed to.
THE FOUR COURTS (DUBLIN) EXTENSION
_BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
The Legitimacy. D.claration Bill passed through com-
mittee pro flans.
The Wilk of British Subjects Abroad Bill passed
throeeli committee.
JUDGMENTS (IRELAND) ACT AMENDMENT
BILL.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND
moved the second reading of this bill.
Mr. Serjeant DEASY said time should be allowed for
its discussion.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said
the bill was of so much importance that no time could
be lost. Tie was determined to press it forward with
out delay. There was no amendment given notice of,
and any objections to it might be dismissed in committee.
The house then divided, when there appeared-
-. For the second reading B9
Against it •
34
Majority
—55
The•bill was then read a second time.
The'Police (Scotland) Act Amendment Bill, and the
Lunatics (Scotland) Amendment Bill were read a second
time.

Mr. BRADY moved that Lord Goderich be dis-
charged from attendance on Mr. Barber's Committee,'
and that Mr. Csird be appointed in his place:
Mr. HARDY opposed the motion as unusual and un-
precedented.

After some discussion,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the debate be adjourned.
The houge divided, when the numbers were—
For the adjournment
Against it

-10

Majority
The debate was then adjourned.
The house adjourned at half-past one &cluck.

T_HE LATE PETER THELLUSSON.

Ye who listen with' credulity to the whispers of
vanity, and pursue with eagerness the phantom of
a name, attend to the history of one richer tban.
Rasselas,—even to the history of one Peter Thel-
lusson, late of the City of London, merchant.
It is now siity-twO years since Peter Thellusson
took stock of his worldly possessions, and found
that he had 600,0001. in money, and land of the
annual value of 4,500/. Peter Thellusson had satis-
ged the ordinary ambition of an English bourgeois
—be had founded a family. Peter Isaac, the son
of his youth and the prop of his house, was heir to
35,0001. a-year in money and land, and might
claim to be a born gentleman. Peers and Peer-
esses might hereafter spring in intermediate suc-
cession from the loins of that denizen of a
dingy little back parlour behind the Bank. The
best man upon 'Change envied the rich and
prosperous Peter Thellusson, who had no object of
ambition unsatisfied. Peter was of a different
mind ; he bad not nearly money enough. Let
other men be satisfied to found one family : Peter
was lucky enough to have three sons, and he would
found three familiee. It was not that he loved his
sons, or his sons' sons ; but it was the hope and
desire of this- magnificently posthumous miser to
associate his name in future generations with three
colossal fortunes. If he did not love his sons, he
did not hate them ; ho was simply indifferent to
everything except to his one cherished object.
Pete: Thellusson took the very best legal advice,
and made a wily. He left a few trifling legacies,
probably to show that no unnatural antipathy to
his children tainted that will with mania. But his
great fortune was all conveyed to trustees. It was
to accumulate until every man, woman, and child
of the offspring of Peter, and alive or begotten at
the moineret of Peter's death, should also be de-
ferret. No one of the children or grandchildren
who had ever looked Peter in the face, or trembled
in his presence, or squalled at the sound of his
harsh, hard : voice, should ever be the richer for
Peter's 'wealth. "And the rich man also died.''
Twelve months after making his will, and sixty-
one years from the prsent time, Peter wits gathered
to his unknown fathers. The will was opened,
and crewed sensations which vibrated through the
land in widening circles; Our law books picture
to ua the blenk disappointment of the then living
relatives, the gentle cachinations of a past gene
ration of lawyers' ..end the gaping wonder of the
general public. There, were three sons and six
grandsons of this malignant old merchant then
alive—all destined-to live thelife of Tantalus ;to
see this.great pagoda-tree growing up before them,
yet never to pluck one unit of its fruit. The t arms
of the' will enjoined, that when the last survivor of
all the nine children and grandchildren should
yield up, his breath; then the chaini was to
end ; the' great MOuntain of accumulated weal.h
was to be divided..into three portions, and 0110-
third was to be giveli to each of' the "elddt