The Sun.
London, England, 1858-02-23 00:00:00

. .

..ÜBLICATIONS. RT-UNION OF LONDON.-..
.
I, /Al. SUBSCRIPTION LIST IS NOW OrEN.--.—Prizeluolders
sweet from the Public Exhibitions. Every Subscriber of -One
Guinea will have, besides the chance of 'a prize; an Impression ora
1 large and important line Engraving, by J. T. Winmore, A.R. t., from
the well known original picture, by the late J. M. W'. Turner, ILA,
' Venice."

witted In Able country. Although be was reported to
have been a-party to -that decision, he had no trace of
zvgoljeOtion of" the fact, and on considering the matter
now be must say he should feel great difficulty in arriv-
ing at that conclusion. The present was not a proper
flame pr.:occasion for' 'discussing this subject—(bear,
hear)—but he oeuld- not regret that the question bad
arisen, because it was of thelast importacce that it
should not go forth to the Amite of our laws, that we
had one law for British subjects and another for aliens,
anl that aliens iniglik Conspire to do what British sub-
JeOlfr could mot do. 11 Was absolutely impossible that the
statement attributed. by his noble and learned friend to
his hon. and- learned friend could have fallen from him.
;Lbrd LYNDEIURST concnrie t in the views ex-
pre-zed by his noble-and leaned lrien'd (Lord Campbell).
With regard 'to' the decision 'alluded to by the Lord
Chancellor in the tate "Regina v. Azzopardi," three
chief justices agreed. in it. The Government executed
the sentence, and-the man was banged.
Lord DROUGRAIK alsteentirely agreed in the law
as laid down byhie:sioble and 'Waned frend. No doubt
had ever been expresaed that an alien in this country was
just.as amenable to the municipal law of England as a
natural-born subject.
jf tried under that law an alien
might t e proceeded ite'nst by the same course of law
and punished by the -
ai e penalties as a natural-born
subject. Their lordsbipti; however, were now discussing
not what the Attornei-General had' actually said, but a
report of something which he Was reported to have said.
There would be nr) end to: their lordship? debates if,
on account of a paragraph in: -a neaspaper, whether it
were au ordinary ankle of news or comet nt upon what
had teken place, or sere Port of what had-occurred else-
where, their lordships v. ere to be drawn habitually into
discussions of thielthid, 110 did not believe that any-
thing like the doctiine imputed to the Attorney-General
had bmen ventilated by
Lord WENSLEYDALE,wse understood to express
his assent in the, laie as hid down by his noble aid learned friend Luet Stacupbell.
' 7le rd.-8i; E• would not ,enter into the
tp say' that he entisfelybonentied in
what-had fallen frowAsis Stehle and leaned friend the
Lord Chief Justice.
The subject then dropped.
HAVELOCK ANNUITIES BILL.
On the m,,tiou of Lord PANAWRIC, this bill was read
a third time and passed.
Their lordships then adjourned.

THE HON. c'ENRY COKE'S NEW NOVEL.
Now ready, at all the Libraries, in 2 vols., 21s.
WILL AND A WAY.
By the Iron. HENRY COKE.
Author of " High and Low," &c.
Hurst and Blaci:ett, Publishers, successors to Henry Colburn, 13,
Great Marlborough-street.

444 West Strand,

'IEORGE GOD WIN, 2 Honorary
LEWIS POCOCK, S Secretaries.

THE AMERICAN ' HORSE-TAMER.--,
Mr. J. S. RAREY has discovered the art of TAMING the
WILDEST and MOST VICIOUS HORSES, whether old or un-
broken colts, and is able to COMMUNICATE THIS SECRET
(which kvolves neither dancer to man nor injuty to the animal)
in one lesson. He has arrived in this country from Canada, with
the highest testimonials to his success and skill from ,he Governer-
General and Commander-ln-Chief of that colony. Major-General
Sir Richard Airey, K.C.8., Quartermaster-General of ll.' M.Torees,
Lord Alf e l Paget, Clerk-Marshal to her Majelty, and the. Hon.
Colonel Hood, have testided to the value of the art and to the faci- .
lity with which it may be applied and communicated.
Mei:sls TATTEasALL have kindly consented to take charge of a
subscription-list. This list will be confined to noblemen and gentle-
men.

Now ready, in I vol., price 10s 6d. bound,
R. TUPPER'S NEW WORK.
"RIDES D REV rITITES OF 2EROP SMITH."
By 'MARTIN FARQUHAR TUPPER.
" The Eideg and It,veries' will add considerably to the reputa-
tion of \fr. ' The volume may serve as a suitable companion
to Proverbial Philosophy ' "-0- server.
Hurst and Blackett, Publishers, 13, Great Marlborough-street.

New and Cheaper Edition, in 1 vol., 10s- Gd.
TORN HALIFAX, GENTLEMAN.
417 " 'John Halifax' is one of the noidest stories among modern
Works of Oct on The interest i•; enthrallinz. the characters admir-
ably sushined, and the moral excellent."—Press.
Hurst end I3lacitett, Publishers, Successors to Henry Colburn.

The Fee is TEN GUINEAS, which must IA pred in advance to
Messrs. TATTERSALL, who will retain the stlbscription until the
secret art has been communicated to the subscriber.
t-:ach remittance must be accompanied by a reference, and each
subscriber, be'bre hie name can be positively received, Must sign a
compact not io.diselose Mr. Mimi's art to others.
Mr. itaumir reserves to himself the right of refusing to receive any
name.

This I ,ay is pieblislied. price Is.
T" E COMPANY'S RAJ.
By the Il,:,. GP.ORG% Tat, VOR, M.A.,
Cation of York, iormerly liaplain on the Madras Establishment.
Reminted from " B'ackwood's Magazine."
William Blackwood ail Son, Edinbur4h and tendon.

• Mr. RAREY will commence teaching in classes, in the order of
registration, at the private Riding-school of his Grace the Duke of
Wellington, which has been kindly placed by his Grace at his service
from Ito 1 o'clock daily.
When rive hundred subscribers' names have been received the list
will b c'osed, and a week's notice wilt be given before opening the
instruction classes. Further inflirmation, with important testimo-
nials, may be obtained from Metisrs. Tattersall, Grosvenor•place, to
whose order all checks mast be made payable. .

NEW VOLUME.-OONTINVA.TION OF ALISON'S HISTORY

OP EUROPE.
This day is pu'Aished, Vol VII of
all
".1.. from the Battle of Waterloo to the Accession of Louis Napo-

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.--;(YEsrERDA.Y.)
, .
The LORD CLIANORLLOR took his seat on tne woolsack
at 5 o'clock.
The attendance of peers
numerous—The Oily
present when the cord Cbaicellor took his-aea-- t were.the
Marquis of Lansdowne, the Earl of Clarendon, Lord
Pam-mire, Lord Stanley of AlderleY, and the Marquis
of Clahricarde. Earl Grey occupied
,his usual seat
Earl Granville entered the house about 5 minutes after
5, and entered into conversation with the Earl of
Malmeshury for a few minutes, and then retired
to his usual place. On the Opposition side of
the house were the Earl of Eilenborough, the Earl of
Malmesbury, the Earl of Hardwicke, Lord St. Leo-
nards, the Earl of Eglinton, the MarqUis of Silisbury.
The attendance of strangers in the space before the
throne was rather large, and f,ur or five ladies occu-
pied seats in the galleries.
THE ALIEN LAW.
Lord LYNDHURST begged to ask his noble and
learned friend as to a
.certain statement attributed to
him With respect to the law affecting aliens.
Lord CAMPBELL said that his attention had been
drawn to the statement, and that he had been sur-
prised and distressed at it. He would not
cad it a misstatement of law, but a misapprehension,
and it was of the utmost importance that the facts of
the case should be stated, as otherwise they would be
held in a most odious light by foreign nations, if aliens
residing within the Qseen's allegiance could suppose
that ttley might with impunity commit crimes of the
deepest dye
Lard GRANVILLE rose to order.
Lord CAMPBELL—Then, at a later part of the
livening I shall feel it my duty to recur to this question
again.
RESIGNATION OF MINISTERS.

In Octavo, price 15s.
The EiAtli Volume, completing the Work, and contatni. g a care-
149+
ly compiled Index; will b• pltdiSho4l iti a ceurae etV: pear,

:venin,

was not vi

NEW NOVEL BY THE AUTHOR OF " THE WIFE'S
SISTER."
This day, at all the Libraries, la 3 vols.,
-r HE STAGE and THE COMPANY.
11,.. By the Authoress of " The Wife's Sister," " The Old Vicar-
age," &c.
" Nearly gilled by genius, as she is by blood to the first of English
(stock novelists—'hiss Austen."— Saturday Review.
Charles J. Skeet, Publisher, 10, King William-street, Charing-cross.

EISPS RACING RECORD for 1858.
Part Y., price 21., will be published on the Ist of 314RC11.
The record, containing' a complete calendar of `port in England,
Er, land, and ticotland in 1857, and Nominations for 1858, may be had
price two shillings.

- -
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The resignation of ministers, in consequence of the
adverse vote on Friday bight, caused an unusual
amount of excitement in the neighbourhood of Palace-
yard and the House of Parliament. Large num-
bers of persons congregated at an early hour,
anxious to learn the earliest information with
referenbe to the late Ministerial crisis. Within the
house the save interest was manifested by the
members, who began to assemble to take their
places as early as twenty minutes past three o'clock.
The prevailing topic of c >nversation amongst them was
the anticipated Ministerial statement. One hon. member
who possesses a strong clear voice, met his friends
in a jocular strain, with the ( xclarnation—" What
a pretty mess we made of it on Friday night."
By a quarter to 4 o'clock the house was three-parts full.
Amongst the early arrivals were Sir J. Graham, Mr.
Cardwell, Mr. Ricardo, and Sir B. Hall. Mr. Milner
IGibson, Mr. Disraeli, and Mr. Henley, entered the
house immediately after prayers, and took their
respective seats without any ebullition of feeling.
The arrivals of the members of the Government were
few and far between. Amongst those who first entered
the house were Mr. Wilson and Sir B. Hall. Mr.
Hayter and Mr. Fitzroy both entered the house at au
early hour, and almost immediately communicated with
Mr. Disraeli.
Lord Palmerston arrived at a quarter to 4. He entered
by the door at the back of the Speaker's chair, and
took his seat without any demonstration of feeling
on either side of the house. Mr. Labouchere, Sir 0
Wood, the Cbancellsr of the Exchequer, Mr. M. T.
Baines, the Attorney-General, Mr. V. Smith, Sir G.
Grey, and the other members of the Government, fol.
lowed alertly after.
Sir J. Palcington, Lerd John Manners, Mr. Glad-
stone, Mr. Bright, and Mr. S. Herbert arrived shortly
after 4 o'clock,
Ttie Boor of the house at 20 minutes past 4 o'clock
was very full, and the members' gallery facing the
Ministerial benches was crowded long before that time.
Lord John Russell arrived at 25 minutes past 4, and took
his usual seat on one of the back Ministerial benches.
The SPEAKER, took the chair at tea nainutea to four
o'clock.

W. Wright. Futwood's Rents. H Morn.

NEW WORK ON SPERMATORRFICEA.
Just published, ?Tice 25., by post, free, 2s. 2d
ON SPERMATORRHCEA, and the
PRDEES,IONTIL FALL kCIES and POPULAR DELU-
SIONS whiehprevall in relation to Its NATURE,CONSEQUENCES,
and TREATMENT.

WY A IfEMBER OF THE ROYAL COLLEGE OF SURGEONS.
" We never commence the perusal of' works on this malady with-
out preparing ourselves to meet most appalling descriptions of human
Buff ,rings. It was, therefore, a most a4rftable surprise to us to
find this error (as It anneal,. to us) carefully avotled in this work,
and the subj!ct treated in a common sense, and• truly practical
manner. . . N medical man should undertake the treatment
of Spermatorrhoea without first consulting this work."—Medical
Circular, Jan. 13, 1858.

Lo,don: IC. Railli6re, 219, Regent-street

ON THE DISEASES OF WOMEN.
Second Edition, with illustrations oa Stoel, Price One Shilling,

Fm, for eighteen stamps,
AN ESSAY on the PHYSIOLOGY anti
SPECIAL DISEASES OF WOMEN, forming a complete
guide to, and with fall instructions for the removal of, the emer-
g'encie3 of Youth, Womanhood, and Old Age.
By Dr. HALL.
OPINIONS OF TUB PRESS.
" The subject is treated in a clear, concise, and practical manner,
and should be in the hands of all females."—Lattect. " Will form a
valnable •ddition to the -domestic household " 4edical
" Every husband ought yo oresent this Essay to his wife, and•every
mother to her daughter, containing as it does most valuable infor-
mation that concerns their physical and Social happiness."—Meath
Journal.
London: Direct from the Author, Dr. Hall, 1, Upper-Groier-street,
Bedford-square ; and by order of all books-liers.

Earl GRANVILLE then rose, and, amid profound
silence, said—My lords, I rice to make an aenounce-
ment that most of your lordships must already be pre-
pared for. In consequence of a circumstance that took
place in another place on Friday night, her Majesty's
Ministers have thought it their duty to tender
their resignation to her Majesty, and that her
Majesty had been pleased to accept that resignation,
and to communicate with Lord Derby. I understand
that that noble lord has undertaken to form a Cabinet,
and_ it was the wish of that noble lord that the house
should adjiurn until Friday next. I understand from
my noble and learned friend on the woolsack that the
benne will sit to-morrow for judicial business,
but I think it convenient that no other business should
be transacted. I have now only to announce that we
hold office merely till our successors are appointed.
The Earl of MALNIESBURY said he was too well
acquainted with the noble lords opposite as men of
honour and having a high sense of public duty to doubt
far a moment the course they would pursue. (Hear,
hear.) He was free to admit that ho felt justi-
fied, however, in saying that he was much gra-
tified that men whose
,politics wero in accordance
. with his own had -been called by her Majesty to her
'-corinsels.• (Rear, hear.) Ho oould not' help feeling a
'trati.raotion in looking bast,l6-Lhat...their debates in that
house had been carried on without acrieS-ny o retg-
on either side, and he would only add one word to
ieform their lordships that his noble friend Lord Darby
was at that moment occupied in fulfilling the task her
Majesty had imposed upon him, and it was his wish that
the house should adjourn until Friday.
The motion for the adjournment of the house until
Friday was then agreed to.
THE LORD CHIEF JUSTICE AND THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
Lord CAMPBELL resumed his statement upon the
subject of the law affecting aliens by saying that be did
'not impute anything to any individual, but he read in
'the public journals the following :
: 6‘ The state of the English law I believe to be this—
that foreigners are able to do in this country that which
your own subjects are unable to do, nail that which
would be a crime in natural born British subjects is a
matter of impunity in foreigners."
Now, that was not the law of England, and it was of
the last importance that it should be known to the
country and to Europe that it was not the law of Eng.
land. (Hear, hear.) He appealed tohisnoble and learned
friend (Lord Lyndhurst) to confirm his statement, that
there was no distinction whatever between natural born
subjects and aliens with regard to acts committed within
the realm of England. It al ens were in England, within
the Queen's allegiance, they were her subjects as long as
they remained there, and they were liable to the same
procedure as natural born subjecte. (Hear, hear.) If
they were tried for high :reason, or any offence between
high treason and the lowest known to the law, done
in England, it would be wholly immaterial whether they
were aliens by birth or foreign subjects, and it would be
most disastrous if it were supposed that such was the
disgraceful state of English law that they, owing allegi-
ance to England, were not subject to the law which
bound English subjects. He said that while they were
under the protection of English law they were bound to
obey it, and were liable for any infraction of English law
exactly in the saline manner as any person who was born
within the sound of Bow bells. For conspiracy and every
other offence they were amenable to the law of England.
(Hear.) It would be monstrous that it should be pro-
eairned to the world that they who lived here and
enjoyed an asylum could commit with impunity crimes
for which English subjects might be punished. If a
foreigner in a foreign land committed a crime and came
to England we could not punish him for what he bad
done in a foreign land. It would be contrary to the law
of nations to attempt to do so. But we could legislate
for our own subjects all over the world, and make them
amenable in an English court for anything which they
had committed abroad. With regard to a foreigner who
committed a crime abroad, we had no jurisdiction over
the offence, but for everything done within the realm of
E. gland he was equally amenable as a native born
British subject. (Hear.) He had heard with astonish-
ment that it 'was made a question whether it was an
offence in England to conspire to murder the consort of
the Emperor of the French at the time she was about
to give birth to an heir to the throne. He was
sat b
joc,kcetd. t hTo at
othonersepicroeul d
anythingbe which the smallesti
oh
was doubtnz
a uponiarn in
t hue
in England was an offence to the law for which the
conspirator would be liable to be prosecuted, and if it
were to murder one of the lowest subjects in a foreign
country, such an efface would most undoubtedly be
committed. 'With regard to the ceesort of a Sovereign
there was the instance of Lord George Gordon, who
was found guilty of libelling Marie Antoinette. The
Bill which had been brought in elsewhere did not create
any now offence ; it wily altered the punishment, and
if it had been introduced as an amendment of the Eng-
lish code he should most unwillingly have supported it,
because he thought there ought to be uniformity of
punishment in every part of the United Kingdom.
He would advise any future Government to go on with
this bill, and if it came up to that house he felt certain
their lordships would support it. (Hear, hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR felt bound to say a
fow words in vindication of his hon, and learned friend
the Attorney-General, with whom he lied had no commu-
nicatioa whatever on this subject. He ventured, how-
ever, to say, without authority from his honourable
and learned Mend, that if he had been reported to have
said what his noble and learned friend bad imputed to
him he must have been misrepresected. It was abso-
lutely impossible for his hon. and learned friend so to
have expressed himself. It was so very difficult a task
to report the debates in Parliament that occasional mis-
takes were not to be wondered at. He apprehended there
could be no doubt that if a native of another country
committed a crime abroad and then came to this country
it was perfectly impossible to punish him or give him up,
except so far as it could be done by a treaty of extradi-
tion. The Attorney-General probably spoke with refe-
rence to a case of this sort, or perhaps he referred to the
question that had of late been much mooted—namely,
what would be the offence of a British subject who
should murder a foreigner abroad. Their lordships might
remember the case of a man named Azzopardi, who was
tried for that offence 10 or 12 years ago. The case of
this man was carefully considered, and the judges ruled
that for a British subject to murder a foreigner abroad
was punishable as much as if the crime bad been com.

Sent free by Post, Price Is. (in stamps), 64 pages,
THE EASY SELF-CURE, without MEDI-
INIIONVENf ENE IA:, or EXPENSE, of constipation,
indigestion (dys.,epsia), diarrhoea, phlegm, dysentery, nervousness,
hiliousrpss arid liver complaints, flatulence, distension, acidity,
heartburn, palpitation of the heart, hysteric, neuralgia, nervous
headache, deafness, noises in the head and ears, erysipelas, eruption
of the shin, imnit,ities and poverty of the blood, scrofula, couch,
asthma, bronchitis, consumption, dropsy, rheumatism. gout, nausea,
and -sicknes,, low spirits, spasms, cramp., epileptic fits, spleen,
general debility, in mietule, s'eeplessness, paralysis, tremors, dislike
to society, unfitness for study, loss of memory, .delusions, vertigo,
Llo.ai to the head, exhaustion, me'ancholy, groundle4s fear, indeci-
sion, wretched .ess, by a natural and pl,,asant means, which eaves
fifty times its co,t n other remedies. Supported by many respect-
able persons, whose health has been restored by. it, after all ntlie,
means of cure had tallest.—Ntsnn. Nephews, 39, Corn/rill, and through
all Booksellers in town and country.

' NEW MEMBER.
Major CARTWRIGHT took the ()mina and his seat for
South Nerthamptenshire.
CORPORATION REFORM.
Mr. Sheriff Lawrence and Mr. Sheriff Allen appeared
at the bar of the house and presente4 a petition from the
Corporation of London against the Government bil', and
praying that the Government Bill and the Corporation
Bill might be referred to a select committee.
PRIVATE BILLS.
4_4eaueabee,of vlrefrte hide were read a socomi time.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.—MR. I. BUTT, M.P.
Mr. ROEBUCK, on presenting the petition of which
he had given notice with reference to Mr. Butt, said—l
rase, sir, to present the petition of •whieh I gave notice
last Friday, and I think it will save the house some
trouble if I read the petition, which consists only of a
few lineF. The hon, and leained gentleman then read
the petition. The petitioner (Mr. E. L. Coffey, of
Sheffield) stated that Isaac Butt, Esq., M.P., in or
about the month of July, 1856, entered into a corrupt
agreement with the Rajah Ali Moored Khan, or his
agents, the effect of which was that the.said Isaac Butt,
for a sum of money stipulated to be paid to him, should
eadvocate and prosecute n
.for
been the
deprived recovery
by n
in the House of Commons the
terri-
tory of whichthe East India Company ; and that in pursuance of such
he
had o a of, lt thea t
°ilby
corrupt agreement divers sums of money had been
actually paid by the said Ameer Ali Moored Khan to
the said Isaac Butt. The petitioner was advised and
Ibseal
ai ecv
Be du thata
had
f
house, and he therefgourieltypreafyaedbrtehaaatil ofth
into the cirearnstances it would be found that the said
beenthe house should institute an inquiry
eprivilegewof o
ithed
take steps to investigate the allegations in the petition.
The hon. and learned gentleman then presented the
petition, which,
upon big motion, was ordered to be
printed and circulated with the votes. The hon. and
learned gentleman then said :—I beg to give notice that
I will on Friday move for a select committee to inquire
into the allegations contained in the petition.
Mr. I. 1317 FT-I rise, sir, to protest against the course
suggested by the hon. member for Sheffield.
.A charge
has been publicly mtade against me which I now denounce
as false, and, more than this, I say that I am prepared
to prove that it is the result of as vile and unprincipled
a copppiracy as was ever made against a member of this
house. I demand, sir, from the justice of this house an
icnmediate investigation. (Cheers.) Let that investiga-
tion be conducted in the way that I would prefer—
namely, by a public inquiry at the bar of this house.
Until I vindicate myself I am content to stand as a
criminal, if the house will permit me to meet my accuser
face to face. If the house see an objection to that course
sand it is not, of course, for me to choose my tribunal)
let a select committee now be appointed, because this
being a question of privilege can take precedence. Let
that select committee have leave to sit to-morrow—
(cbeers)—and let it determine the matter. I wish to
throw ne imputation at all upon the course taken by the
lion, member for Sheffield. The simple question whioh
the house has to determine is whether the charge is
true evening I came down to
this er
housenut. t
intending, idfalcame should have had the good
fortune of having an opportunity
of doing so, to take
part in the debate. I found in this house a letter
from the honourable member enclosing a copy of this
petition. On Friday morning I wrote him a letter (of
which I did not make a copy, but the honourable mem-
ber, lam sure, can say whether lam stating its con-
tents accurately) to the effect that I had received this
petition, that it had taken me by surprise, that I denied
the charge, and that I wished that it should be ininee•
diately investigated, inasmuch as it was of so grave a
nature that no member of the house should allow .24
hours to pass without contradicting it, if unfounded.
(Cheers.) But I also told him that, in order to make
my statement complete, it would be necessary for me to
refer to documents and correspondence which were in
Dublin, and which I was afraid no person could find
but myself. I therefore asked him to defer presenting
the petition for three or four days to give me an oppor-
tunity of going to Dublin to obtain the documents, that
I might meet the charge. I went further—I told him
that as I was writing to him I might add that such a
charge, even if fully refuted, must be deeply painful to
caonmypmroamn—(hisetehaer)c—asaenodf tthhaetptrhinecedwishcuosssei(nmamoef
referred to. "Therefore," I said, "relying hitoandwb youregn
honour and sense of justics, if you will permit me I will
lay before you a statement of every transaction in which
I have taken part in relation to that prince, and I ask
Ipdeetitninotnwuinstbill youn t b
the
slightestav e read
l'le(inCnthineoegfrstie course taken by the hon.lt
degreey°u that ts
ot
a tdt
oee statement." eeree tml!)tr.t
complain
member. I told him at the same time that I was certain
that, whatever course be might take, it would be dic-
tated by \itis sense of public duty. I received from him a
Jotter stating that if I attended in my place to-day I

,27 -
t -

-

< - t„..3„.
-.4 .. ,
•
2'...-'
Alar.,,,i
/,?-'2 '.'' "'
A•' , ."..- ' -4" ....'
fA)'\* 4. ' 1 'l4 . -‘'. r •,,..-i • 7 •-•
'.. - .
......,
14144111',1111W' ,
PR ' . , < ,!" ~ - ' -`
, . 411,....., . . ' ,C4+ii M`. ...2 '• ' " lit
. .. - . ~----- , or •
..
_
~ ``.
,
''' If` ,w-^
..../
••-` ' i ••• A...'
P G I
'-'..", -•.-- --i ' -4'.. '" -, •- . '''',?"4".'"!ir*Z
..L44 k-- N.J.: ' '''..'.'.. '.4t,....1, .::
. . wt "'-i-----, tt,,,. -- '4." '.
•::1-4) :::',.`, , . ,-.,...... gd3s"'
,f,.
'1
it4.-11-l• '':' . - -§s, ;, 1
' • , ::,.4 L.?. *, A
~,. : • - ---___,", • , , , .46 ,
'-" -,- .4:::: ',4:!-.!....;:•f:,.:1 .f.P.7,-.4 ~,, -- On Ar'''' s ' -
. .....,,,....k ,•
.i. 24,..
• ..,....... I, •.- ,51174,
.. ,
-11, -,•," .
::4.
:414c::71.w..,-."7.,as
•;7*'. 1. . :,,I, ,17,...t.-.1
i -. 4. Pik
. .
_ -
t ' . ...

should have an opportunity of heaeing the notice which
he would give of his intention to move on Friday even-
ing for a select committee to investigate the charge. I
have no reason to complain of the tons of that letter.
In reply to that letter I said I was sure he would, on
reflection, see there was an objection to that course, and
that, under whatever disadvantageous circumstances, I
was ready at the first moment to meet my accuser in
public. ((Moen.) I stated that I believed I was ready
to meet the charge (I am speaking from memory), hut
he would feel that to make my defence in a public
assembly would be a very different affair froth making
it before a select committee, apart. from the danger
of inaccurately stating the purport of documents of
which I was not then in poaeeseion. I proposed to leave
for Dublin on the morning after the division on Friday.
evening. To that letter I received no answer, and I
waited until half-past 4 e/pecting one, end then, upon
coming down to the house I found that the hon. and
learned gentleman had not only given notice of his in-
tention to present this petition, but that he had stated
that he believed in the truth of the allegations contained
in it. Under these circumstances all that I ask from
this house is justice. (Hear; hear.) I make no appeal
to their sympathy, because I know that in addressing
the first assemblage of gentlemen in the world such an
appeal would be out of place, but I demand of their jus-
tice that not one hour, not one moment longer than the
rules of the house render necessary, shall this odious
charge be kept hanging over my head. (Cheers.). Whe-
ther yen agree that the investigation shall take place at.
the bar (where I may meet Mr. Coffelface to face) of
this house, or whether you refer it to a select committee
—whatever course you take, let It be taken at once)
(Hear 'beard Ido not w..,vieleiedar I 'should be- in
e ,
.order t t a-opmegtt be now aiTointed' in-
oriler to inquire tube-t 7 this petition. petition. I'ga-ie.-
spokeicto no one en the subject, nor have I canvassed
any member of this house ; but I leave my case in the
hands of a friend, who I know will do me justice, and
who is in possession of full information as to the circum-
stances of the case. I shall now, sir, retire from' this
house, but I feel confident that whatever course the
house may take I shall, after a full investigation into
the subject; return to my seat without any stain upon
my homier—(hw, heal)—.without any other stain upon
my reputation than that blot which an accusation of this
kind always leaves behind it made against a wan cll.-
cumstanced as I am. (No, no.) Ilowever false the
charge may be, or however vile the motives in which it
may have originated, all that I ask is that not one day,
not one hour longer than is absolutely necessary shall
elapse without this charge against me being havesth
gated. (Cheers.) The hon, gentleman then retired
from the house.
Mr. ROEBUCK--I hope that it may be in the reool.
lection of the house that when I gave notice of my in-
tention of presenting this petition I also gave notice that I
should move for a select committee to inquire into the
truth of the allegations contained in it. Exception was
taken to the course which I then proposed, and you, Sir
—the highest authority in this house—suggested the
course which I have adopted. I think, therefore, that as
far as I am concerned I am without blame for the course
which I bavo pursued. (llear, hear.) Moreover, Sir, I
stated that I believed in the truth of the allegations con-
tained in this petition. Now, I thought that in bringing
forward a charge of so grave a nature against a mem-
ber of this house I was bound to carefully investigate the
evidence upon which the accusation was made, and
having done so I arrived at the conclusion.
Mr. BAG WELL rose to order. He did not think that
the hon. and learned gentleman was in order, in making
an ex parte statement.
The SPEAKER said the hon, and learned gentleman
was only entitled to ad3ress the house if he wished to
make any explanation of big former statement. He
would suggest to him the propriety of acceding to the
wish which had been expressed by the hon. and learned
member for Youghal, and of moving at once for a com-
mittee.

Mr. ROEBUCK—I shall then, Sir, move that the
committee of selection proceed at once to the appoint-
ment of a select committee to inquire into the allegations
contained in this petition.
Mr. PAGAN objected to such a course being adopted,
because one or two days would necessarily elapse before
the appointment of a committee, and such acharge ought
not to be kept hanging over the head of an honourable
man for one hour longer than could be avoided. He
should move as an amendment that the house at once
proceed to the election of a select committee to inquire
into the circumstances of the case, For himself he hoped
that the committee would consist of some of the most
dia-
tingui.bed members' f •the house, and be felt sati.fied
that his hen. friend *child come out of that investiga-
tion in the moat triumphant manner, and would-be able
proze• that the—nhAresf against him were the result
of a conspiracy of the vilest character. Another reason
for the inanaediate appointment of a committee was that
his hon. and learned friend would have to proceed to
Ireland on professional duty on Monday ntxt, and be
hoped that the house would accede to that course, He
would venture to suggest- that the committee should
consist of Mr. Henley, Lord J. Mennen, Mr.
Walpole, Sir J. Graham. Mr. S. Herbert, Mr. Bright,
Sergeant Kinglake, Mr. Thuverte, Col. W. Patten, Mr.
Deedee, and Lord Goderich. (Hear) He should there-
fore move that a committee be at once appointed to in-
quire into the allegations of the p etition of Mr. Coffey,
and that it should continue its sittings notwithstanding
the adjournment of the bowie, which he understood was
about to be proposed. (Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—I at once accede to the suggestion.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said that in the confusion which
had prevailed be had not observed whether the house
had agreed to the motion for printing the petition and
circulating it with the voter. He had understood the
hon. and learned gentleman to move that the petition be
printed in order that it might assist the house in coming
to a decision as to the appointment of a committee ; but
if the committee were at once appointe i that object was
at an end. It was usual also when petitions of that na-
ture were printed to include in the motion the restriction
that they were printed for the use of members only, and
then any newspaper that printed them did it at its own
risk and responsibility, and that house was saved from
any possibility of being brought into collision with the
courts of law upon the question of libel. It was only fair
also to the hon. member attacked that such a realliction
Should he imposed.
Mr. ROEBUCK—If the house should think itself
bttter qualified to appoint this committee than the corn-
inittee of selection, lean have no objection to that course.
I therefore at once accede to the proposal of the hon.
member. As to the printing of the petition, ysu, sir. will
bear me out in saying that I proposed that that should
be done simply in consequence of your suggestion. If
the house thinks fit, it can rescind the order for printing
the petition, and direct that the inquiry be proceeded
with at once.
Mr. DISRA.ELI—Sir, I cannot help feeling that the
house is asked to act with some precipitation. (Hear,
hear.) Of course, it must be very painful to any gentle-
man to be subject to an accusation of the nature which
we have just heard; and it is only fair that such an
accusation shenki meet with as prompt an investigation
as possible. But, at the same time, we have certain rules
which have been accepted by this house, and which long
experience has proved to be very salutary ; and I fear
that if we were to appoint this committee on the instant
we should be taking a course hardly regular. I think it
would be much better to allow it to be appointed by the
committee of selection. (Hear, hear.) Is has been
always the custom for the names of those who are no-
minated to investigate, especially in cases of this nature,
to be place fairly before the house for their considera-
tion and approval, and I should have thought it would
be much mere agreeable to the bon. gentleman whose
conduct has been impugned that there should not be
the appearance of unseemly baste in a matter of this
kind. Another point is the number of persons whet
should form the committee. From the hurried man-
ner in which the hon. gentleman read his motion
I really don't at this moment know either the
number or the names of the members whom he proposes
to appoint. But it appears to me that the tribunal he
suggests is inconveniently large, and should be much
more limited. It should consist of those members in
whose temper and high character the house as well as
the hon. gentleman may have the fullest confidence.
Under any circumstances it would, I believe, be better
to leave the nomination of this committee to the com-
mittee of selection, instead of to an hon. member who
has been indicated to the house as the friend of the hon.
gentleman whose conduct is impugned; lam sure the
house will feel it to be the wisest course to follow their
usual practice in such cases, and that if the choice of the
names are not left to the committee of selection it would
be more satisfactory to the hon. member for Yougba I
househims iaelftr dhatutehecyansahiodativalrdaa.
at least be placed before the

Sir G. GREY (who rose amidst cries of "Divide!")
said—This case is brought before the house as a question
of privilege ; and on that ground alone, I apprehend,
can any such departure from the ordinary rules of the
house be justified as the nomination of this committee
on the motion of any independent member. llquite
agree with the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) that
it is extremely desirable, excepting under very urgent
necessity, that the rules should be adhered to ; and I
am inclined to think with him that in this instance there
is no necessity for departing from them. The house can
have but (me that consistently with the
thorough investigation of the charges preferred aqainst
the hon. member, he shou'd have the earliest po's-ible
opportunity of vindicating himself. With that vi
bon. and learned member for Sheffield has proposed w.ththaet
the committee of selection forthwith nominate
a
mittee to inquire into the allegations of
the co
mittee
If that proposition is agreed to, the commit.
tee of selection will in the course of this
evening
to-morrow morning appoint the committee,inocir

- -cr

x

E WSPAJ

. ..
although, perhaps. the motion of the hoe. member
for Cork Of a Fagan) was suggested by an anti-
cipation that the hoes° would not sit for the next
few days, and that therefore tome delay would
be incurred, yet I apprehend that no such delay need
take place, because, if nominated by the committee of
selection, Iho committee might meet to-morrow and
proceed with their inquiry forthwith. (Hear.) It would
be decidedly preferable on every account to- leave the
aorninatiou in the hands of the committee of selection
—(cries of "-Divide ll') - and the house should express
its opini )n that the members should not exceed the
usual number.
- Mr. BRIGHT, who on rising was received with cheers
from all parts of the house, raid : —The course proposed
by the right hon. gentleman opposite does not appear to
me to he quite consistent with what, if I were in the place
of the honomember behind me (Mr. Butt) I sh'.uld think
ought to be taken by the house, and the right hen. baronet
the Home Secretary has recommended a course which
appears to me just as contrary to rule. He proposes: that
the committee of selection should nominate a number of
gentlemen to act on this committee, and, as I suppose,
that they should proteed with their duty, although this
house does not sit tceconfirce their nomination. (Disset t )
That possibly may ne#be neoesshry, but it appears to me
to be an unusnal course that a number of gentlemen
should be appointed ses a committee by. a committee cf
selection that wes never intended to appoint committees
in cases of this kind—(hear, heet)ee—and then that that
committee should sit, although it has received ro con-
firmation from the House of Common,. (Dear.) Now, if
my own name were not included in the het gi veil in by the
hon. member for Cork, I should think the c ,mrniltee that
be has propoeed, as far as I heard their names, would be
:composed of men before whom any member of title house
iwould be quite eatiefied to have Lie case tried. (Rear.)
llre have been told that the hon. member for Youghal,
I who ieconcerned nsost immediatelyin this matter, ieabout
Ito leave for Dablin on a profession:it-engagement. Now, I
'thisk the Houee of Cornmoue :ought not to alley a nee
moat's delay that might involve him in the nrplea,aet po-
sition that he rnutitogeath Ireland on his proicidonal ave.
'cations with a charge-tot this nature hanging over hie
head. If this house were to meet to-morrow night, and
every night this week, it might not matter much, he-
cause to-morrow the whole question might then be
settled. Bet it cannot be settled to-night ; and as the
case is one of privilege, involving the character and hon-
our of an hon. member, I would recommend the house
not to take the advice of any person, however high his authority, who would interpose a mcment's delay between
the charge that has been made and that justification which every one of us, I believe, iu hie heart hopes the
hon. gentleman may establish. (Hear, hear.) As one of
theta whose names are proposed by the hon. member for
Cork, I would ask of Lim to excuse rue; but, whether I
am excused or not, I could certainly urge the house to
agree to this committee, that it may begin to investigate
to-morrow and report as so mas possible. (Ceeer3 )
Colonel W. PATTEN believed that if the house
devolved the duty of nomination upon the Committee of
Selection it would discharge it with impartiality ; but he
saw an objection to the course suggested by the Secre-
tary of State for the Horne Department. It would be
the first time that the task of appointing a committee
of this kind had fallen upon the Committee of Selection,
without their nomination being afterwards submitted to
tLe judgment of the house. (Hear.) Tee Committee of
theSelhect ion ve,eret,
.boundt.
,ft.e
~repio,r,•ut
itdirebirepdoreeedaisngitno the
house, and could not releet any committee even on a
private bill without submitting their choice to its con-
firmation. He would suggest that, instead of this duty
being intrusted to the Cenunittee of Selection, it should
be inotarusestewdasteathae C., iniren..,itthe.ie of Elections, which cen-
siated of six members fairly chosen from both rides of
the house, and which would, perhaps', carry with it
mere of the public confidence.
Lord ELCI-10 t mit it for granted that the feeling of
I possible in this case. The right ton. gentleman (Sir G.
Grey) had recommended that the Committee of Seleetion
should appoint the committee either that night or the
following morning ; but as the house would probably
adjourn that night for a week or so, many hon. mem-
bers would be leaving town immediately, and it would
perhaps be very difficult to collect together any cem•
mitt ,e which might be thus chosen.
Mr. BLAND pointed out the precedent of the Roch-
dale Election Committee, in which the house appointed
the Committee of Inquiry the very Caine evening that
the allegations were made The pre.ent was not an
orlinary case, and therefore ought not to be. left to the
Committee of Selection. Under these circumstances he pressed upon the house the desirahility of nominating
the committee which bad been proposed by his hon.
friend the member for Cork.
Mr. NEW DEGATE, who spoke amid loud cries of
re Agreed, agreed," recommended that the suggestion of
the right hon. gentleman the member for Buckingham.
shire, backed as it was by the authority of the Home
Secretary, should be adopted.
Mr. S. ESTCOURT thought that the question for the
House to con,ider was which mole of appointing the
cornmitt,e would be fairest re the hon. member who seas
liitll,j6oc to this charge. They had before them three
prooosittons—firs:ly, the repose! of certain names by
an hon. member who spoke oil behalf of the accused, to
which the Louse might—not quite in accordance with '
pr,ccdent, but without any great violation of it—assent;
secondly-, thlif.tba appointment of the collect:duce thoeld be referred to the committee of selection ; and, thirdly,
that it should be left to the general committee of elec-
tient,. To both of these two last prepmitions there
was the same obj2ction, that neither committee could
report to the house, the names which they had selected,
which would, in kis opinion, be a grater violation
of the ordinary precedents and usages of the House
than the immediate nomination of the committee.
(Hear, bear.) Every hon, member must feel that if
they were to etrain a point at all it ought to be in order
to give to the accused party the earliest opportunity of
refuting the charges which were made ageinst him.
(Hear, bear.) He theref re thought that they would
the least vielate precedent, and would do the most sub-
stantial justice by acceding to the motion of the hon.
member for Cork. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. :MANNERS asked his hon, and gallant fiend
(Mr. W. Patten) whether he proposed to refer the peti-
tion itself or only the nomination of the committee to
the general committee of elections. (Cries of " Agreed,
agreed.")
Mr. H. FITZROY suggested that if the matter was
referred to the committee of selection, that committee
'night at once retire, nominate the committee, and report
it to the house, (Cries of "No, no.")
Mr. ROEBUCK asked leave to withdraw his original
motion, and, leave being given, it was withdrawn.
The SPEAKER then put the question "That the
hoeea forthwith proceed to appoint a select committee."
Lord PALMERSTON suggested that the hon. mem-
ber for Cork should again read the names of the gentle-
men :whom he proposed as members of the committee.
Mr. FAGAN having complied with this request,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that, as it was generally
understood that the members of committees of this sort
should attend de die in diem, ho trusted that the mem-
bers named to the house would consider themselves
bound to discharge that duty. (A laugh.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON obj cted to the committee, as
being too numerous and consisting of an even number.
He suggested that there should be only five members.
Mr. BRIGHT objected to the number five, as likely
to give too munch power to the chairman, as was often
the case in election committees. He thought the
number ought nut to he lees than seven.
Sir J. PARINGTON would agree to that number.
Tae question having been put and carried,
Sir J. PAKING lON moved that the committee
should consist of 7 rhea-ars, and this was also agreed to.
Mr. FAGAN said he would move the first 7 names
upon his list,
Mr. WALPOLE said that the committee could not
be nominated withoutfirst suspending the standing order,
which required a day's notice of the names. (" Oh, oh.")
Ott the question " that Mr. Henley be a member of
the committee,"
Lord GODERICH raid that it was quite possible
that some hon. gentlemen wheao names were proposed
might in a few days no longer be members of that house.
He wished to know what would be the result of such an
occurrence (Laughter.)
Sr G. GREY understood that if the name of any
hon, member was agreed to without hie objecting to
die
tit in candour, if not expressly, agreed to serve dc .
i
iit diem. (Renewed laughter.)
serve
ht have
suddenly scads EmNadLeEtYo h'iamk,i that, as
committee. Had he had a day's notice
laughter.)
g
mostas thed decline
Ipropositioninetoh
ehad n been
s
taken a different course. (Increased
tLheorredfo
J.
withdrawn. The next
his name being put from the char,
The name of the right
on Lou.tlie list gentleman
Manners. On that at was
of

;.‘3,,,...iti
:(....A7r-.14._-_,. ~,...*:
I suppo, e there iii-nat. rig ientigiOnio. IA:13.11 . . , - -''
01
Now, lam not very. Itt:ii.',ll4 to nr aertake ,o-Ai§W,-ea h 1
a tbsk, but, having presented th.. petition, I ebrAltiii to pres,int myselt to the house. (11-,r, J" r.)
Sir J. GRA.ITAM_ raid that in c nf-rnaly with re.
c,..dent Sod the claim:Vol juqic, Nfr4Di3_tt 0.941 t:. to be It
liberty to rictininat atA 4 ~:._, .tv.eqilicti ',4ittti-ipl Ole
COo)ll:titte on AiR -bait.
..,- - . l'
Air. F.A GA-N, oci the''part Of 11r. h:tizE, uanicAl Mr:
Sergeant Deasy. •
Ou the motion of Sir G. G.ll/- it was tLen'res,.l,:•ed
that, in addition to the seven member., a rraly tomi,
zattd to serve upon the coutinit.tee, Air. Rtiebuck and
lir. Sergeant Deasy 1, appointed raer-bets o f the catri-
'
iniittee, with pi-.v.er to tako.paa in il : to - 7'n•e
p ~.e... g
1, t at ithcut the poWar -of votirg.
•
The petition wag then reArred to the canimittef,N,4
-the suljtct dropper.
.„. .

CHINA. •
Lord PALMERSTON presented to the house, by
command of her M.:jetty, certain papers which
wait
understood to be the correspondence which Las xprEntly
passed between Lord Elgin and Oomminsionee Yeb.
The Noble Lord also presented a Oespatoli from h...r
Maj,sty's Ambassador at Paris.
Tu! se documents were ordered to lie On the table.
RESIGNATION OF MINISTERS.
Lord PALMERSTON having laid on the table cer.,
Lain papers with rererenca to certain despaches frsea
l'Arie, ruse, amidst loud cheers, and maid the fellowin4t
statement, at 20 minutes to 6 o'clock. He said—l. wie
to make a statement to the house with respect to tirs..
course which her Majesty's Government have thought:
it their duty to pursue in consequnce of the vetet
this house gave on Friday n;ght. I thick it catt.
scarcely be necessary fur me to say that that vote'
led her Majesty's Government to feel the only cour.a.
they could pur,ue, with due regard to their own•hOrionr;
and a due r-spect to the house—(hear, hear)—Aas
tender their resignations to her Majesty. They --did,
so on Saturday, and her Majesty was gracionkl,
pleased to accept them. We now, therefore, ordy-
office for the purpose of carrying on the lausines of the
tiuntry till our successors are appointed. Under.these,
eircuwatanc:,s I aui sure the house will feel that it would;
be inconvenient for the house to meet, and therefore, se'
is usual under similar circumstances, I venture to
pose that the house do a:lieu= far a fee' days. I Levi.
ascertained, from a private comnatiz=iCatiin I bare hat .with the'.ottoble -lard . who, I venture to say, is at
this time' engagecV •ha —coustrUcting- a Govern-
ment, that it will ha sufiint for tite house to
adjourn till Friday, and I ti.icr,-.ore propose tat the
house at its rising do adjourn till Friday next. (Cheers,. )
Tile motion was agreed to,

FOREIGNERS AT MALTA.
Mr. BOWYER asked the Secretary of State for the
Colonies whether it was true that the Rev. Father
Sapetti, a Catholic priest, greatly respected at Malta,
having left the island for a temporary purpose, was, on
his return, refused permi,zsion to land in Mal a, and cent
in a Goveroinent vessel to Italy ; and, if so, for what
real on and under what circumstances this was done.
Mr. LABOUCHEREsaid that the Governor of Malta,
Lke the Governor of Gi.ralLar, had a summary power
of sendliz any foreigner out of the colony over which lie
presided upon his own reTonsibility. l'he Governor of
Malta thought right to exercise the power in the case of
the individual referred to by the hon. and learned mem-
ber. That individual was an Italian priest, who had been
resident in the island of Malta, and during his stay there
had been very active in fermenting disturbances, the
object of his attacks being the Roman Catholic Bishop of
Malta. When, therefore, he I,ft the island Sir W. Reid
thought it right, under the circumstances, not to allow
him to return.

Lord J. MANNERS, whov;as received with cheer 3
and shouts of laughter, said—l say ditto to nay right
hon. friend.

--S r J. PAKINGTON thought that the house had
now had sufficient proof of the inconvenience of the
coarse which had been adopted, and renewed the sum
g -
evtion that the nomination of the committee should be
referred to the committee of selection.
Mr. S. 'HERBERT suggested that the house might
be adjourned till to•morrow to receive the report of the
committee of selection. (Cries of " No, no.")
The name of Lord J. Manners was then passed over
and that of Mr. Walpoleover, proposed, amid renewed merri.
meat.

RATE OF WAGES.
General CODRING"VON asked the Under Secretary
for War if he ccu/c1 lay on the table of the house any
return i f the rate of wages and skilled labour in England
and in the colonies, shoning the possibility of civil ear-
vents being engaged by staff officers at the rate of Is. or
is 6.1, a-Jay its those places napectitely.
Sir J. RAMSDEN said he was not aware of th•
existence of any such return.
THE COAL TRADE.
Lord A. V. TEMPEST asked the First Lord of the
Admiralty whether the Govetument had been made to.
quainted with the results of the experiments made for
the Coal Trade Committee, by Alesirs. Longridge, Arm-
strong, and Richardson, which proved that the report of
(
Sir Henry De la Beebe and Dr. Playfair, in favour of
the Welsh coal for steam purposes, was based upon error,
and which established the superiority of northern coal ;
further, whether the Government, in consequence of
these experiments, were prepared to reconsider the re.
port alluded to, and to institute a fresh inquiry as to
which coal was most advantageous for the steam pur-
poses of the navy.
Sir C. WOOD said the report had been brought under
the consideration of the Admiralty and aas at present
under their consiieration, and, in his opinion, a further
inquiry would be proper.
THE BELFAST RIOTS.
Cal_tain ARCHDALL asked the Chief Secretary for
Irelaid whether any and what measures had been taken
by the Irish Government to prosecute Loughran,
who, as appeared by the report of Messrs. Lynch and
Smyth, was the eisiee of the late Belfast riots which. commenced in July last, the said Loughran having,
as appears by the said report, been guilty with others of
con,-piracy to riot.
Mr. H. HERBERT said that if his hon, friend had
r, ad the report on which be founded his question, his
would not have put it in a form which was opposed to
the facts as stated in the report. The commissioners,
in adverting to the incident in which the person alluded
to was concerned, stated that it hal a very slight and
unimportant bearing in estimating the caused of the riot,
but- still that person was taken bcfure the magi-Crates
and fined 40.,. for the offence.
EAST INDIA LOAN BILL.
On the order of the day for considering iu committee
the East India Loan Bill,
Mr. MANGLES said that it was of the molt vital
importance that the Company should be enabled by
means of this measure to raise money, in order to carry
on the service of the Government. He hoped tae corn.
mate() would allow the act to proceed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid
that of course he should not ask the committee to discuss
the details of any measure under existing circumstances,
but he wished to say that there was a reason for pre.
eeedicg with this bill with respect to circumstances
affecting the state of the finances of the East India
Compai,y. The committee were aware of the statement
which had been previou,ly roads. There were certain
Eastarniy
India
an
Company,avy estimates
which
h which
it was werede
Bir
repayableby
should b
the
repaid before the end of the financial year, on the let
t ihni
so redo eurn ti
royp. r elrte
tnhte
Can oya,dgwe
emr ee nt
not o f
able the
fit ic
es neat,of
ittio,ereepgtay imathe
t:sawmeoeuindt obel
dpeurbaleicgemd.onefleadwvisahnecdedthteo tchoemra.
mitten merely to be in possespion of these facts, and then
they could deal with the bill as they pleased.
Mr. T. BARINGemid that when this bill passed the
second reading rt was understood that any details were
to be reserved till the ceminittee. He certainly thought
this mode of raising money a very clumsy one, and the
general principles of the measure most remarkable. But
if it ,v ere perfectly essential, for the purpose of carrying
on her Majesty's Government that this money should be
raised, of course his objectiees must yield to their con-
eideration, lf, therefore, the hon, and right hon.
gentleman said that it was necessary for the publics service that this measure should pass through committee
he (Mr. Baring) should withdraw his opposition.
Mr. V. SMITH was understood to say that it would
be inconvenient to discuss the principles of the bill at the
present moment, which could be more properly do
f.
done on
member the proposition of the right hon. baronet the
Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring), that the lean should be
reduced from 10,000,0001. to B,ooe,ooof.kri. had al so
been proposed that the nth clause of the bill should be
altered so that the subscriptions to the loan should be
raised in this country. It these alterations were made,
he saw no objection raised why they should not go into
committee at once.
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY said the house had passed
the second reading without discussion, on the under.
standing that the principles of the measure should be
discussed at this stage. He centended that they were
revenue,os wb,.
were
0 utih loetduh h l
et 0
kept ,
like to
seet
kmoisqo,
ne
hearauefnoa:mtwrit l ebl i
ae abilitiesi
:filroi
h:
oofoweonmrrcamtotel,huacestol ion on the subject, and he
thing like 90 , 000 , 000 /. or l dfOu GuildfordleOnn v,makeChancellortoetOrotOff,
propositiona u
i Fished n uj
e nt ose
by one-sixtb, and the :(.00N kindofutl: to. 1 o.ot
upon,l
db
Mangta,e hye edv
,Et.
thereehex:ece) h s
Indiane
whato qwi
n u
aee
;r
was to inereaee the funded railways,debltecoaNfuoslevin'tdhbiaee
question was would this liability
by any possibility fall upon the finances of the exchequer.
There was a chronic deficit year after year, and for the
last four years it amounted to 6,000,000/. TUG revenue
of India was rai,,ed from land tax, salt, and opium, and
other things ; but a great portion of the revenue of the
last year could not be collected, He trusted that some
explanation would be given upon these points, viz.,
what was the present state of the Indian revenue—what
were the charges upon it in the shape of debt of all
kinds—and from what revenue it was proposed
to meat this additional item of expenditure. lie believed
it was a great fallacy to suppose that
outthe ofe etbwtooyf
eathrse
East India Company could be
paid off
revenue. In his opinion the two exchequers of England
and India should be kept distinct, or the house would
become entangled in Indian finance.
Mr. A.YRTON considered it extremely inconvenient
that they should go into committee at this time, ccu-
eidering the present etate of the hetli,e and the Govern. went, and the Government of India. The question before
the house involved serious consideration, for the right_r.
hon. gentleman the member fur Buckinghamshire (Me'.
Disraeli) had spoken in terms very different to the pro.
poiitions contained in this bill, New, he:: I
who
relieve those
debt, and have to come forward andervice
of the State.
they
this fcroaumoetdrythe
wouldbill, tnhoety
ite wouldm orahave r
tt
Fo
1)7.1 i
b.])
ervewfohretthhear
would advance their money for the s
the East India Company
hether the English Government
The great question now
borrow the money, or
shouldtated
bt heat
raised,th er e
the amount the Company required.
should not advance
.d was
to wgh,:tihnetrothtehyesiturlkdeatialon:
I thatas it
thist ha ill
obeen
s
was a public
nnetche present state of India tLat the house
ti.ceouthidonagct
wisely
and prudently in acceding so far to
the measure as to go into committee upon the clauses.
Mr. WhALPOLesEsiiti;
At the same time, he thought they ought not to pass

Mr. WALPOLE was at all times ready to serve ma
committees, but, seeing that the present committee had
been prciposed without notice, and that certain portims
of it had already begged ti be Excused,
he Loped it
would not, be cousidere i disrespectful to the house if he
requested that his narre might be omitted.
.)
The name of the right hon.
gentleman c
quently, not agreed to. eman was, (Hearonse-
The following namss were then put and agreed to
seriatim:—Sir James Graham, Mr. Sidney Herbert,
Mr. Bright, Mr. Sergeant Kinglake, Mr. Bouverie,
General Coirington, and Mr. Wilson Patten.
Sir H. WILLOU'HBY—I beg the house to notice
that all the gentlemen nominated have been taken from
the other side. (Oh !)
On the motion of Sir G. GREY, the committee was
empowered
mphoowuesre ;
fiedtvoe
tos b
sit notwithstanding
aq
uurum. the adjournment o
Mr. ROEBUCK—The
seated is about to be referred to this select petition whic_ehctlcohmamveitpteree:

_
,
-r