The Sun.
London, England, 1804-03-10 00:00:00

COTTON TRADE.

Mr. H. ADDINGTON moved, that it. be .an,in.
struftion to the Committee, appointed to coneidet
of a speedy and effeetual mode to settle d;fferenc,:s
subsisting between the Whisters acid Viosrktnen inane
Cotton Manufatioeies, that they. may-6ke-
mitasures as may be tiecel,:ary for pificniiig such

„

differences in future, and report the matter, toge.
O'er with their opinion thereupon, to the House—

Agreed.
He then moved, That the several Proceedings of
the House in the last -Session of Parliament, upon •
that subjeft, be referred to the said Committee.— ,
Ordered.
SirtioriN•ANDEßsotcy brought urr the-Report of
Mr. Aldermanßoydeir§,Lottery Bill ;—the Amend-
, ments were read and agreed to, and the Bill was
orderd: td 14
- Mr. DRrasuir lirottAlitsupo Report, ci lbeSuper
intending M ,gistraie of the Police of Dublin, whirl
being read, _lle mved-,=.That
.lease be giver, td
bring in a Bill to.provide for defraying the Ex:
pence of preserving the Pnce of the City of Dub_
. lin.—Leave giveo.
• Sir W. PULTILStrit moved for leave-to-bring in
-a Bin.. fcr increaitng the Capital Of the Bank of
Scotland.—Granted.
The Bill for regulating•the age at which persons
• are.to be aihnicted into Holy Orders in Ireland, was
read a third time and passed upon the- motion of
Doti& DIfICEN.AN: •
Mr. CaRRY moved the Order :of the • Day -for
gah'g into :41,Comtilittei: on the Irish Duties Bill. •
Col. HUTCHINSON said, it was nOrhis inten--
• tion to oppose the Motion of :he Right Hon. Gentle-
man, but he cotrld not avoid making a feW onset_
vatinns .upon .the SChethile before the House. He
was!willing to 'pay every tribute to the Right Kin.-
Gentle/4)oi. -the Chancellor of the Exchequer af Ire.'
land,, for the Candid and liberal manner in which he'
had, cunduded himself upon this iiceation,- but lie
was.sor.ry'.to find-that the 4. per cent. duty;
,upon
Irish Exports was- tobecantinued upon every part
of the Exports of Ireland. The .Right-Hon. Gen-
tleman had himself acknowledged, oh! a former oc-
casion; that the `Provision Trade of Ireland was in
a languishing copilitiOn, and he thoUght that was
a sufficient, reason why it
.should be exempt from the
general export duty. , He then adverted to the tax
upon leather, which, he said; had .been laid. on under
an idea that it . could not exceed one penny tier
pound, but in fart it was considerably more.---*
Another subje4.to which he i'viitted to-call the at.-
tendon of the House, liecause it materially concerned'
his Constituents, was the duty upon Foreign Her
rings imported into Ireland. He did not inearn to
propose that the duty should be taken off; 'hut he
wished that a full drawback should be granted when.
they
,were re.exported, .otherwise-the trade would
be tbrown-inta foreign hands. He was anxious to
press this subjeft upon the consideration of the
House and the Right Hon. Gentleman, because it
materially affe6ted the trade of the City he hid the
honour to represent.
Mr. CARR said, that with regard to the export
tax upon, linen, considering it as,he did' as a War
Tay., -he should certainly not oppose it; but -he
wished the Right Hon. Gentleman to advert to oile
circumstarce, which he considered as bearini bard:
upon Ireland. By the Articles of Union, il there
was a surplus of any foreign artielein either Gr,eat
Britain or Ireland, it might be exported to- the
other with a full drawback of the duty : but if a'
merchant in Ireland Wished to export tol)acco, for,
instance, to England, he could only di) it in a ves-
sel of a certain size ; this appeared to him to he an
impediment upon trade. With regard to the Win-
dow Tax, when it was laid on. in'lreland,' it -was
always considered as a War T.x, tho Ugh now it
was made a permanent one.

Mr.
.70IIN L4TUUCHE adverted to the state
of the exchange between Great Britain and Ireland,
and said it was a subjetl that called for the imme-
diate attention of Parliament. With regard to tile
schedule before the house, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had certainly attended with the utmost candour
to the representations of the Merchants upon the
subject'}, and in most instances their wishes: were
complied with ; in others, however, they were not.
There were two articles particularly upon which he
thought a. reduClion of duty ought to' take place,
and they were Foretn Oils and Foreign Hops, the
latter be coneei%sed ought to be admitted to be im-
ported free of duty. .
Sir JOHN NEWPORT also expressed his thanks
to the . Right Hots. the CHANCELLOR of the EX
ell mu* Ett for Ireland, for the attention:he bestow.
ed upon -every suggestion or ohjetliOn that was
made to him. But there were some points in which
he still did not approve of this schedule. In the
first place, he agreed with the Hon. Gentlethan
(Mr. HuTct-tiNsoN), with regard to what" he had
said about the importation of foreign herrings ;- but
the subjeft to which he wished principally to-advert,
was the importation of the article of deals into Ire-
land. He was sorry to find there was an increased
duty upon that article. The Peasantry of Ireland
had of late expressed a wi,h to have their cottages
slated instead of thatched ;
.this disposition 1 e
thought ought to be encouraged, because he knew
that several v Wages were. actually forced into the
Rebe.lion, by the threat of having their cottages
burnt, which cculd he easily accomplished while
they were covered with thatch. He therefore realty
hoped that this duty would not-he increased.
Mr. 'HAWTHORN approved of the Schedule in
general, but wished merely to advert to the in-
creased duty on Grocers' Licences. He did not know"
upon what ground that duty had been increased, and
he did not think if it was persisted in that it would
be produClive of any increase of Revenue.
Mr. CURRY, after expressing the satisfaElion he
felt at the approbation which had been expressed of
his condo& by so many Members from that part of
the United Kingdom, proceeded to answer the diffe-
rent objections which had been made. He said that
though these duties were now to be voted with-
out limitation, they would of course be liable
hereafter to revision, alteration, or repeal, and
therefore he. hoped that no apprehension would
be entertained upon the idea that these Taxes were
to be suited permanently—. Another observation he
wished to make-was, that all the Duties laid on in

Ireland, to correspond with War duties 'laid Jan icl
this Country, would of course cease as soon as the
War ceased, and the duties were taken off in' this

Country.. With regard to the Provision Trade' of fre-
land, it certainly did languish, but he hoped it was
only for a time ; the faa was, that the War:deriind

. _
had ceased arid•the Peace"..ddniand had not begun, which
was a reason for a temporary diminution of the Trade;
but he had no doubt but that would soon revive,

particularly as there was a large Army maintained
in Ireland and a' largi,:Fleet.dn'the Ce,,,t, and the
consumption :of Provisions by them would at least
cqmpensate for the ternporary degrease .of-_.thereign regard to the Drawbacks on
Sugar, they certainly ought to be the same in both
Countries, and if there were any instances in which
frarrreanyeaniaralete-theyewere-recar-saY,--rerey-wcruld be
rectified.—With'resped to. the Leather Trade, he.
did not conceive that any reduatt on of the duty was
nec'essary, because it-haddoritinued ro prosper; and
he:believed rhOse who' Wert,engttged in it were per.
feali Viii regard to the duty . upon
`414 Importation of Foreign Herrings; lie could
mit agree with the... Honourable. Gentleman that
ought to '-be, reMedl. the duty .:was
an.tt .I..tndSr that. duty the trade
creased, and he. was, sure it . would nut he denied
that' Parlia.ettena'auil,Ato:adopt evet-y, means to en.
courage Otir'oWn f,:hertes. With regard to to-
bacea,.. the 'reason vvhy-it could only be shippi..d on
hoard' vessels Of ..becaUse it.was
necessary,; in order-to prevent • its .being smuggled
into theelittie 'Creeks' and harbdurs. of Irelind in
small vessels wilich•tlie Citstorn-hoUse cutter's could
not follow. He thew-proceeded shortly to advert
to tl'ie* other objections which had been made to the
-schedele, bit! contended that, they were not .such as
ought to induce the House to lower the duties.
Mr. D4if7SONobjededstronglY.to the duty, on
. the Export of. Linen. from.lreland, and said; he
-Vtis sure that 40.11 a: measure would not have been:
proposed in the Parliainent of Itelandeil it had emu,
tinued to sit. •
The I
,C:t the EXCIIEQUES..de_
fended the measure; staid said, be could. not See upon
what principle of justice Irish Linens were to be
jrnpertad free-of chity, while English Linens were
to pay a duty of per cent.
• Mr: .Groabi PoNSoarhY also opposed the duty
on the Expot tof Linen; a ;
Mr. .F ..STE R said, that without entering into,
any detail upon the. Subjed, he Wished only to.state
,that they were by One Mt vesting a perpetual Re_.
venue in the Crown of '3l millions a year. But. this.
was; not all, ,-the was what was called the here;
ditary Revenue of the Crown in Ireland, which it
of without any 'Message or
Aasentbeing.deliVered from the' Throne tipon the
subject.
Mr. PITT said, he certainly was not aware of
the objeEtion which had been made by the. Right
Hon. Gentleman who spoke last : He was not
prepared now to give a decided opinion,tipon the
subjeml, hut he was prepared to say, that upon such
aitabjedion coMinefrom such a quarter, the House-
.ought not to proted' Without very miqufery con..
sidering the subjed. If the Right Hon: Gentle...
man was 'not mistaken in the ohjettion had made,
-(and he shciuld be r;iirpriied indeed if, he were
--taken) it the Billenow -before the House wenCto
produce,that effe.d, anti the:re si,,as no Message-:from,
e•theCroWo to authorize that proceeding, it- was tin.
doubtedly'it breath' of the proceedings and consti-
tution'of, Parliantent,- and one that ought nor, and
he hoped aVotild not, be passed over lightly, ,
_ Mr;Coßky was about to proceed in farther-ex.'
planation, .and tozadd some further arguments,.when
he was interrupted-by' .
Ali:: POSTER; wilovalled to order, saying, tifat
by explanation he, understood that 'Member of
• Partial:fent was to explain what to 'meant by what
he hid 'already-said, 'ant nbt'What he was going to.
say., , . „
The SPEAKER observed,, that if it was objed—
edto, the Rig* HOn: Gentleman.-could nor be al-
lowed to go into argument upon a questidn to which
he7had already spoken, withoUt.the siveiarleaiepf
the House. • , • „
Mr. CORRY said, that for obvious reasons, and
out of respea to the "Howie, he should certainly.
'confine him Self toluePlanation; and he very short
what he had to say arose out of the observations of
a Right Hon.' Qcntletnan, whom he never heard.
without great resped. He should, however, state.
how the matter stood. -The Civil List was granted,
in Ireland in the 33d of the King, and these Provi.'
sions which were now under discussion, were enaelL
ed in lieu 'of those duties which subsisted before
that time. His Majesty having given up the re.,
ceipts of his Revenue, the Hereditary Dues to:
the Crown bad merged during, that time ;- but
the right to them was. not disturbed, but was
to revive in full. force at -the. expiration -of. the
term for which.tbeCivil List was granted thus: it
was, that from year to year the Hereditary Duties
to the Crown remained' as it were in abeyance,
during the continuance of this arrangement between
'the Crown and the Public, hut would reviveagain
after the time had-elepired during which thq agree-.
.trient was in force. This Bill was formed on the
model of-other Bills which had passed from year•ta'
year in' Ireland from that time, and this only to ien..
:der' permanent that system which had beeq adopted
and annually passed in Ireland. The: right of the
Crown necessarily revives when the period arrived'
wby which the arrangement as at an end; nor was
there the least intention to the contrary. Thus the
case Stood on Constitutional principles. Now,
certain. portion. of these duties Was gtanted annually,..,
some of Which were now inaertedin this Bill, whiCh
~, to be permaoent and a certain
was proposedpro_
portion was omitted in this Bill, such as the Land.
and Malt, that was an annual measure yet ; and
with 'regard
.to the other duties,, it. waa.ntopoSed
'that they should be permanent, and therwere,. the
Consolidated Fund of Ireland, charged with the In-
terest of the National. Debt andalso the Civil List
of His Majesty, and that of, the proportion which
Ireland was. to bear. of its contribution it was bound
to make to thepublic burthert-bythe Union, as well
as:all the pensions, and other-Parliamentary payments
that 'were to" be. Made: He was not aware ahere
was any thing in,this Bill, or that any thing would
arise out of it, which would in any 'degree.. aired
the Hereditary Revenues of. the Crown, lungef
than they, are already by the consent of the Crown,
and by agteement betweeer the Cross u and the Pub,
lie' had been already pravided.
FOSTER said, he 'should also make a short
explanation, ofavhat be had said, and that he should
do: by: way of: reply to xehate hadebeeo said by-the
Right Hon. Gentleman. He had. just said, that on
forming the Consolidated Fund. of. Ireland these
Hereditary Revenues bad, been: given up by. His

Majesty, by a gracious Message, desit ing that
Parliament miklitlifing them to theeptililic, aide alai
dispose of theniaiiParkatneet. should-think poper,
and that in iieU of them the brown had a
List;: Now;ethifigreernent could only be binding
on the Crown (luting the existence of the Right in
His Majesty. His Majesty had only 'a • life inte-
rest in -these-Hereditary- Reevemiese"iner -what
to be the .effeo-of this Bill ? ,It :was that of a perpe-
tual disposal of these Hereditary. Revenues..of the
blOWn, tint-only Cluring-HiS-MijairsTaiini,'VUr
also during every reign, to eternity: He would
ask,. if that Was Parliamentary ? He, would
„ask,,
Was it constitutional to divest -the-Cr'own'for-eiric
of its. rightse virliout any cooseet.froin tho crown;
without even so much as a Message from the:Crown r
This was a point too clear to enterdargely int 4 it;
and therefore he should. not trespass: any /or:gelletr.
the patience of the House. • • • •
.
-Lard C ASTLEREAGH.said,•hehad pot had an
oppoetooity.
:of teadingethiS ILiil, .and he .had no
means• olknowing what it contained he did. not
apprehend it • would Barre the 'effeet stated by
,the!
_Right Hon.Y.c.ienifernan, 'However, ,if the wards
in-the Bill shock; be found to go further than His'
Frieed appreheededethd, had stated,".i!.
would ehe .for. the House ,toeconsidet, it, when .tlite
clatises'-came 'The principle of the Bill
was clear; Joist as the interest.' of. the CroWn was
concerned, it was important ttetake•care that noe
thing should find its way into it by inadvertency,:
which
.might ii4veth-teffeEt of disturbing the settle...,
.thent. 'made. between the Crown and the-Parliament
of 'lreland, on the. Hereditary Revenues and the
• Civil List,l,as•it took plaee on the
.33d ,of the King.
Now how did it, stand? The Irish Parliament, after
this agreement with ‘the.Clowo, provided that,the,
duties giveWup CrOWn ShOuldbe..akplied.to
the use of, the Publicfor,One year, and continued
them from year ,to year; nntil they had been made
perrnanent since. the :Union ; for the 'pradiee ofehe
Parliament of irelatod,WaS di fYerierielteien that of Fow_
land in that respeil His Right klop.'Friendhad
said, that 'on:poblit rotinds'it:•was'exPdienttliat:
, these duties should continue in ,operation withoite
fresh arrangement every .y=ear ; 'and this Bill was'onty
to render perManenf,sduries which Were t''.oteclaway:
- hythe Parliameot of Ireland, ,annually, since the,
, 33d year of the . present 'Reign, it was a' principle;l
;tact) Upon. by the Crown eifer.sinee ; nor 'was there,
the. least idea that. its operation .should .eontinne.
furolier thanduring the lite of the Monarch now. ern
_ the Throne; it could not affea, the rights. of.,tte
Crown afterwards. 11;m. the. Right Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last said that it Weitild-bezeein -oriration:
during the succeeding ~Reigns:• W
.he., had ...not..
read'rhe Bill,. and therefore he could not say *hat.
it contained, but'. if ie had Afly,
might so operate, that...provision .• might be
tered, The surrender` of these -duties, by agree:e
nieni. between -.the, Crown and ...the 'Paeliaaneet:
was absolute diiiing the life of his present Majestro
and it 'Was .fo'i''the -Parliament to consider
.wbether
the appropriation-Of them should ,he pertnaneot,e,or
-only -Irmrryear-ttryterrereHe ethought-that-on -sentilde
principles of Revenue they-ought to be pertraneot; in.
order. to to-the politic Creditor better security;
than could attend .the passing of them to the 'pub..:
lic use from year to year. He believed that .his
Right Hon: Friend. would be able .to:.sitisfy 'chef
jealUtis-Y.i.ir7h7-1171u-se that there-was pOiting-in
this Ilia to, area' the'.'interest 'of the Crown unia...
- vourably; 'at least nothing tharcottld not be-alter-,
ed to the satisfaction of the House in a Committee.
Mr. RQcS'4 wished to knoW whether there was in:
this Billany:specifiC-VroViSiOn titi.ihew that" the He-
reditary-Revenues of the Crown shall revert to the
Crown, when that period shouhi occur when there
was a demise. 'of the Crown? for if there was no
such provisiOnir 41is Bill, he doubted very much,
Whether the. Bill:should have dome into 'the House;
at all ; and he. Was sure-thatif not, the' House ought
'not to go into. a Committee upon it, at least until
a 'Message came- to the House from the Crown,' de-.
, siring them to proceed upon such a measure. As to the
Malt Duty in. Ireland, Which. was still an annual
vote, he did pot know the amount 'Of
.it 'so • as
to be able- to -judge of- the check which- Parliament
retained .in•that reaped upon the Executive Govern.
;pent, . by way of power' to, withhold
.the Supplies.
from year to year. If the Right Hon: Gentleman"
cOuld:,satisfy the House. upoo, thes•e two points he.
should be glad to heathim. . -
Mr. C jRRY said, that accounts kepr
of'the Hereditary Revenuerdistind friiireifie-otterse
and he was informed-that' the -LaW Officers
Ireland prepared a .clause.for the purpose 'of 'sieirig,
the lights of the Crown. from every thing, exCeoo
the operation of the agreement between iliC.Ctownapd
the Parliament of Ireland, in the 33d of the Crown..
Whether the mode which had-hCee. adOpted for that:
puipose etas such, .was not for-him to state.; .he knew
that that principle had always been-preserved,: and
had enderstood that :the, provisions were adecoaie
for that.purpose..- That provisiop had always been
-inserted in every Revenue Bill since the agreement
had been entered into between the Ctown and. the
.Parliament of Ireland* and he iook it for grarired
that every thing would be adopted. by theHoieset
that was necesslry for perfed-clearness'. ee This Bid
-
Was clearly of the form -of the* former Bilis,. which-
contained a provision for saving the rights of the
Crown. Here. he read the, provision. out of the
Statute'Biiokein a former Ad of Parliament.
[Mr. FOSTER asked if that provision was in die
I. present Bilf?) - •
Mr. CORRY said, he had' no doubt of it : the
IrthiSewtiard.Cotisider how- 'it was prtliared:' He:
had no doubt.it was correezto though he had not had
an opportunity of reading it ; it was sent to him
• to the usual manner after it was drawn up by the
Law Officers of the Crown. As to the amount of
the Duties proposed 'to be voted permanently, and.
those which were to be annual, the annual. was
above one-tenth of the whole..
Mr. _CANNING said, that the. first question now.
was not whether there was sucha clause as that which
was alluded to by. the Right lion. Gentleman, but
whether in fad, the. House could. do any thing fur-
ther without tnrther explanation, or whether indeed
. the Right Hon."Gentletnark ought not to have been
• reaeloo with his explanatioo before be eatne for rd
with
.his Bill ?, The next question was, If there Was
not such a clause, what the'House should allow to be
dofie,upou such a gross 'violation of form, and such.a

:c

Il

substantial objection in principle,
C.mstitutional praCtice of the House as occured in tl
Bill ? He put it, to the 'Hon. Gentlemen who, sill:,
ported this most defeCtive Bill, whether they slwuti,u,
not think it more
.decorous in them to ask kV
to withdraw this defeCtive Bill, and ask leave °:
present another less imperfea, as the best rnatin..!,
4,r4lticlf-ttiettotrittt lt-dre for IllirEtittcritigtirdfra"l
so essential - .0
principle on which they had attempted to prat on
in. the I-lu.use... ,It..was now allowed, he said, ~91
all'fiWt"cfs, that s'ailiias a gross Osieriiihr:i.i -least ;
anti he thought g4,ing. into a COMmittel t;9o*
f.tetifoutE to cure the. de-felt there, would'nut '._
per, because it wOuld riot sitfliCiently
oftthe House dpon . a proCeeding so' glaringly ,{e'
pugnant to its Rules, and. to. one of the most lIt'"
•pyrrant-.principles, of:
.the Constitution., ...'•': ,
- , iMr..,FOX, said,..rhat if -there was any founa4P°,dr)
inpoint of fat in the ohj'ektiOn; the House 06w
not cure it in 'a :Coininittee. because it could not'
atNordiag to arty rule of piaCtice or principle Pf t'e
isc orrslitation,rgo into'.a Committee at - all' uisbo. the
'Bill.- It was "hot in The• legal power of "1
itl.c,us.l: to .proceed at all.,UPon'a
.Bill 7 of f. this 1:-.('' t
without consent : here .there was no pretence 1113
mark. the s s°
any. such consent was given: There coulkbe r;:e
d,..mht whateyer, that -the House'must nellit'e-tc.
que,s,cion that the SI.:EA.K.ER do.DOW leave t le 01"1,-„'
for 0-le House: onght,."-tO• wait at least-until, (""
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who broughtlll
the Bill. knex what it contained, before ,they Pr-
„,
I ceeded to discuss it ; the Right Har. . G C.. 11 i i CIMI jil
111' 0 llid itaidly-a.sk the. House Until. he hirnelf- 113
.
had an.op'porettnity 'of reading it. - .-
1 it
I .-
.:::I\llr NT ,- SI7AITAR4 was proceeding' to speak, We-
-1 - was c,
he inter rup:eo by - ',..., 4
1 Mr, FOSTE:I?, who ('-tbjeCted to thafflom 14chnlici : •
lir. speaking*
,tipon, this question, because: he n"-
gPii"l„*Fes44Y-%; :.:,'';' -,:.. - ' 1.4
j.'
.
1., The SPEAKER decided;tnat as it was Ohjev..e‘ it°'
.1--the Hon; Grit trettrar COnlif i',or troAriae- heard- :lc' car‘
... ill
_gmCro...i. '.l.k.'i:EtilY:"....9,sf.a':Cil':,••,.l-11,..r•-14'e.thought7-..... .;;;:ColiS iti', 01' -t1111:,
i-slatitu.de had been given to dirfltigfit Hon. Gen 1
man .who had sp(A--O Lieforell; . ,. i - , i that
1 ; - "''-, • ''' !'sC.C!"`-' „e, Abc- •
!•Li :%9-tr7'.noA7going ~.tfi. explatu„: bui-'40,;a117.-. I
Hon. Genttern. an.-.u:as a...Ile:1)1)1(4 lg- prOcied-c°,l,l,riejrry)
to the rtices of &h ate, tncl'ltierau're lel4Peit
properly stop!. ' r , .., ' • - • I 'ug '''i
•••: 4-6 r.! - cf-lA-Ntglio R -cf.
.tbe%-I,3OFitEsL • hi /
~.said, ...gar .his..HOn.,...i.riend had. iii*Al--:.i.:OuisC 4).i.1-.1-'5.
• ,
debate—, I „, .2 , -
'.
' .-..- • •' • '
~, „„ , ~.,„ ,
.....apivin.e. le-'7,:iltoii.rni'i.4.,thß,ls.yke to order for that this Riall!`e
Jeff.... , : .
..i.;1,-,al]eadSr..s,p'okcri ti.P..0.:111.1.hi6,..-b..l4:'''''
...0
l'• -I.lpcm- v:7ltich- lbf t•.---2/I)DiNOTfY 'Aca4t4tr.,t6ll:
i. -- - • •, - 1,-- ~ • • --- - i'r,
wartritlf said, 6 I am: '01:11g- ‘to`inA.--t' a motion, ,
. ' pndiulhai()%aT,tiiiehtcatinieido sti(sytoor2l6lilt
aagee,teihd i,,pit.;.:,tfiale.,
!-- • ,•-• - , . •
1- Right Iftin„.Getirtletit an had spoken already. iti•:' /li,s
.4.7
!..liel-ate. -.- ':!- ', ~. : .-- . ,• - •
!.- - Mr;- AbDINGTQTI' said lietdse for the ,P9.o'
0
maim°. a °non, and he. -Wia a$ itber ty he v
„ fiG,'
to. intrOtuct, 4hat ';'vvh•ith -hd-was'ainut to s"(J,,• „el.
'`was desirotis'''there should be In'ts ditictili' wi...,.."(P;'
1 -- , —..........................,...„.„,•,..,.:,....1a5it ~, . a „,-
~ in going upon. rim ix i', 4,nt.. tat: none snot' no
tailed upon to proceed iii-ihe .disCussion, .of.thi',Y,,
• „A-, •- . • ..
ana it,:xtratnt tee' wit non t knowing ti,illat'o4.Ct3r.niTe?,..'
H of,iheßill were;. for that, reason he 6110,140'118ifr:
.that
.the, Mouse -should. ietiolv•citself into.a Cr:7., ,?,s'..
iee,. of the'...W_hole .1-rAlq.'ni.itin' thi Bill- to::flicic,„- ia '''
~ 11-....0,.. aill. was, wisj,:dra,wn attogether, t'ne.te ‘v,t-t,t;
of course be an cod brit:;.Vrltertvise he sbo'il':d/e
gative tlle.question;Of the ,S'illAittk leaving its
Clair,
:with a ; view to move:afterwards that `,.,,ite
clißliati.lilst,ibis:::cioiiiims.:TinriToiatit:eii:::_.!?....a_93.2..re.__ of the 'lll'
log
Air.- FOX said, the. Right Hon. Gentl-emin' t
(P
to,be heard, on the ground ,00 .
' he was gt,ing. to make a Motion, the• only grotino.,o
whoich he .had any right. to. speak a seclOnd ti iii • ,
in the 'Debate ; thus .his claim was ailowedrit
,poi.. of order, and yet after all in poirt of :',,,,
he'did not make -any :notion, hut ni.lly gave e; •.
tire. of - a motion which he. i0t.5,,,i,:.d to inal‘.ll, •
l and.. this was .attended with, , additiofi-A irreg,r:
i. I.iirkry ';.:thjat he now negatived', the question,..(i,,g
the'. Sp-E AK ER leaving • the- . Chair, .. ,ha k' '
triter , ..... .
„once spok..- for the Sr E,AI.: ER_ lear i rlg the C113.'1;..01
But lie belieVT:d it wouldbe Lf.great use: to so° 14'
His' fyji,j;..stys.•Kiniter9.;:and- ~'particularly (0 :lie
Right,,Hon...gentletrian„ if the}' c,uld chavie-4
• Rillds, of..the. House so -that.- they :t night not „vo
'f...cha.nge'chir nii.nd4. bUt b'' allowed - - i live's';-- sts
, .,
Opl)Cslte;optilton's. in, one. right, upon' onejci'
..
.in a' debate,, -.. . '
... . -1• i Bill
'..... Ph'".--OR7V/S/W ‹.i'icr'•-• h -:I 1- '' ii Pi- •''., t at 'he tea:ye . T•rlon
Wa.s precisely on the same principle and cOn`Tiett
las Bills wiiich.had. fornierly. Massed, the su'i)tect
iOf ",thesedntis. He. di-,.l rtor, feel himself warfanyvss -
to seak,-on
.tl.i.is i".ill, not-having reattit,siei" co.
inz.toduce(linto:tht linoNe i all he knewwas, ("I't„ it
' !ilb,jeti to .which. it reforred,.was trn.decdisco6sto“
of
:11:elafittt h , atp(-;ng•, the Ltw Ofileers ofthe Crow,oliis,.
whonelLidilit h;an,)tir to he ore. He kr:ew die;ry.
ensiioril'ad been7,on the subjea of the King's hereali ,fr,
P.,evettue ; peili,ys he,thight be out of ~order ii::710.
"tog/what he ,3,vas about'
to state, but he.vii"co*J''
- dtA tv, t-t,- attention_ of the i-louse to it. He, o°3- ins'
- IlleTCfatise`whieti had been inserted in outer r ;Ili.
:--tViolt this 5 ttbje.l, to shew that the Rights °' 4#'
4c, fa f a-
CtAwn had al'wafs been' saved in them all, a! I',
. , 0,0
relsted to the Here4iititry Revenues of the Cr to-, ~:
revtirting after the ,termination of the agreeirri,est
l trCi+een the CtOWn and ti:e Public', in the ',3" !toy'
.. of the present reign.
..:',lt vas for the House -
soto:to'
er-whether, the words-in-this Clause ''''''e „re-
cent to save the Rights of the Crown ; he li, by
lier4ed illy were,' and it :had been so thoug (Itiot
the:ciown Lawyers in Irela'nd. But whethcf,oo
stlatise wits to be:found in the present Bib lie,",it'
riot undertake to say. The,Bill was in the hand', to
, it:lg of.two or three persons, and. lie rook sir3fic' ori
himself that he had not read it since it Was' I', th:lc
[ the Tableof-thatHouse, All he could say "Itt' the
the
.4111 which w'as
..considered and petweil j),J'olr3. .
Crown.talsyers in Ireland, .of which she Picl' off,'
this to be a Copy had 'been by them deco'''.
~,,
cient to presere entire the rights of rite CO:d. tilt
Mr, Pli Al, PONSON BY said, he •beiev.o., tod
Bill :contained no such Clause as .that sclll o,lirc''
! been react by the Learned G-tntletnan out °I a'e to/
Act: of ParlParliament. In a wor,:, he knew s")f ro - •
wit'''.
to proceed upon this business, but that 0" oo'
drawing de present Bill to enact way . for 11
...

The Question was 'thin• piit; diet the SPEAKER
do now leave the Chair, and negatived.
The CittacCE.l.t.olt of the, EXCI-Igtlrl'lt. then
moved, that this, ficuse do to-morrow resolve itself ,
into a Committee of the whole House. . .
Mr. PITT paid, he was extremely glad that an
opportunity had -been given to examine into this
question ; but it was matter Of regret that Jive at-
, tention of the House had not been called to this im-
portant circumstance before any progress whatever
had been made in the Bill, for nothing could be more
important for that House to attend to than the He- .
reditary Revenues of the Crown, and that the more,
especially, when the measure brought forward was
without the consent of the Crown, and without an
opportunity of discussing the contents of the Bill.
He was very far from
pledging himself as to the
opinion he should have on. this occasion ; but after
what he had beard from the Honourable Gentle-
man belowim, he had great doubts indeed whe-
ther, if the clauses.in this Bill Were, as he had stat-
ed them to be, out of another Bill, the objection to
this measure would he removed, for they; -only re-
laced to a part of His Majesty's Revenue, instead
.
of the. whole : Ifso, the defeft was. radical ; for it
was a clause by which a stated sum was to be per-
petual, and set off againSt a-p
.given
.value some years agoerpetual Revenue of a'
with the increasing prosperity of the general Reve-
nue of the Empire, for durinhe'happy period of His
Majesty's reign, g t
from that time to the present; hat
Revenue had inereased„to aeveral hundred ousand
pounds, and chit ReVenue now was
much ,hi Cher than
the Civil. Lis.t..for ivnich it had been exchanged ; so.
that by this enaament to app ro.Priate in perpetuity
the hereditary Revenues ofParli
would be doing neither 'More thnor leSsrownthan thisament
—to
' abolish -His Majesty's- inherent claim.' to a peim-
tient improveable Revenue, and giving for it a fixed
..nnimproveable sum, and that too,. Without any con_
sent or intimation 'on the part of the Crowe. If
This was-the case, and nothing had been said to in.
• duce him. to doubt it, he Could not help &tying,: it.
- was very unfortunate that the attention of the House
had not been called. to it before any progress was.
---,made in the 13ill; for...it was twitter of great im-.
-portance, h. on the'constitutional principle, that the.
Hereditary. Revenues of the Crown should- not be:
taken away by -Parliament without the consent of
the, Crbwnthat was a printiple which -it was
, topossrble to: he itie wish of any of the King's Mi-
nisters to neglea-, and quite as little could it be the
wisn ofany -Mei-ober of
.that House.
The question was then put; - that this House do
.i_.ca.tocmorroW resolve itself into the. said Committee.
rtied. - : . _ .

..
MLLITIA OF-IRELAND. .
ago he men.
Mr. FOSTER said, that some days
„toned a matter of serious, moment to Irehuid, evich
• . was, an apprept.breach.of Faith.uf Parliament with
the Militia of. Ireland; In November the Militia,
:lett:embodied-in-Ireland by order of the Lord Lieu.
tenant,' they were et9hOdieti by the.existing Law ;.
hyrkiatcLaw each Militiaman ,who provided for his
:relatives was to have 25, per week for' his wife, and
/,-...fcif his father', inOther,.Or cijkf,' •Vihn were 10. be
xnaintained by.hint, In August following,. this Law
was.repealed„ by which these as. were reduced tuns.
The, lylilitia had been embodied under the faith of
the first„ and no compensation was gi yen. to. them for
the rest'. and
;..this was a breach of Faith, at which
'.ll*:lYfitilia murmured very, much--,—lte "had letters
informing him of much discontent upon this-occ.t.
sion, pot woold.he.-he,,.answerahte -fiar -the- and quenCs, if some measure was nut .taken ; ancLiif
taken-at all, it must be taken before the 'Assies;
which are now approaching,. otherwise it would be
too late.. . . .
- . .
111r.-Secretary YORKE state by . .admitted the difficulty
call
dhe -the Right -Hon.Gentleman., and he should
t attention of the House to it ; but the Chief
Secretary-,of the Lord Lieutenant- had brought the
13 ill forward", he had not ye had an oppommity -o
e.
consi4grink that subjea, hut in a few days he. should
come,,forward with. an arne-ndment to that Bill, or a
separate Billjor that purpose. . ' - • ..- ,- '
-.V.ORIY KILIVARDEN*S FAMILY. : ' ":- •
Atr".G"ffo. p,O.NSON BY ask ed the CH iclIC E L LO it"
at:lyof the x.cit scau E R whether' it. was intended to take
~
"ePAci-wards making
,sorne provision for; the.
'anvilY uf.the lateturS IC./ i • RDF N ? it was now
near eight,:montha. since thawtAtragical event hp_
pened,, by which he was destruYed. H 1.3 family were
riot in affluent circurstarices, and- the consideration
of the manner - -in which he camel to his un-
timely and lamented fate,
of his virtues, ,made this a and the recolledion.
matter of great, concert,,
and he thought that no time should be lost in mak-
ing an adequate provision . for . his family.; and he
Was sure every, loyal man -in the empire would feel
the necessity of this .attentiUn on the part of the
'Government.
The Cii AIVCELLO ROfthe CI,Ek EUER said,
that this stibieft was one on which His Majesty's
Servants had hut. one on
and. he believed
in %t but course of a few day
s/House-would' the attention of 'the
called ,to it.
DEFENCE.
Mr. P. . NAVAL
da gave notice that he should
the , on Thurs-:
y next, move for some Information relative to
State of the Naval Defence of this Country.

HIS MAT ESTY'S HtAL-rti.
Mr. GREY, "I wish to.say a very few words, on a kitibjeet which appears to e t be of the Utmost im-
portanCe.- Th m for attention of th
been necessarily called e House has this,,day
, by Witnessing in ihe House
of Lord 3 an instance of the personal .eXercise of_ an
Aet of Authority from the Kin
rence naturall g.—Sir,' the infe-
y drawn from that Af.t of Authority,
$o exercised, is Undoubtedly of the Most satisfaCtory
It would indeed -be completely saris
faEtory to me, if I were assured by the Right
• }-I°n• Gentleman opposite to Ifle IMr. ADDING.
N), that that Aft was-dont in .
Its puolicity indicates, and W full hi att-h; which
ithbur which Such an
tft of authofity ought.not. to have
.been exercised.
It Would have been satisfanory to me: if there were
. rip t some doubts upon tliat 'stiTcjen—bur under-all
the circumstances, considering what we know from
,public.reports, arid comparing them with DeclAra-
a_ti°ns made in this Houk and other places,_ there
'.. ei 'appear to.
me to-- be surge doub-t and mystery
.130 n this transaCtion,' whith .fettv-e (in ! my mind'.
'6ehrirtientra considerable Uneuiritsi and apprehen.;

sion. It would be great relief atid stisfaaion
me to have this serious apprehension removed by
an explicit Declaration from the Minister ; but if
not, the .House is placed in a rte araawful'sitUa-
zior, in,which it will he incumi)ent on us to think
what steps it is proper for us to take."
Mr. Secretary YoRKE, " I move the Order of the ,
Day-upon the Volunteer Bill."

_ .
On the Clause for allowing Adjutants and QuaF,
ter-hilasitrs`Fialf-pay,
Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that there were
many persons who bad never been in the ',Replaps
but who, from the excellence of tpeir conduet as.
Adjutants in Volunteer Corps vVe(6, he thoughts
equally intitled tts. Half-pay. He NVa% of opinion,
that it should depend upon the Report of the Inspea-
ing Field .Officer as to the good discipline of the
whether the Adjutant of such Corps shoUld
be entitled to such pay or not. In the course of
:his. speech, be adverted to • an expression used by•
Gen. MAITLAND on a farmer occasion, that there
were not six good Adjutants to be found in the
whole Army.

Mr. Secretary YORKE said, it was necessary to
lay down'a general principle with
..resped to the
Half-pay to be allowed to Adjutants,. as .other.
wise, persons who aaeti as Adjutants in Volunteer
Corps, and who were wholly incompetent, might-
become entitled to it; and thus saddle considerable
expence upon the Public. To this rule however
there might he some exceptions, as, if the Inspea..
ing Field Ocer reported the
.good qualifications of
-an. Adjutant, it certainiy•was intended to represent
such case to His Majesty, with a view that such.
Adjutant Might become entitled to theallowance in
question.
General MAITLAND said, the expression he
used on a former occasion,,was not that there were
not six. good Adjutants to be found in the Attny,
-.but that there wele not six new Adjutants to be
found

Air. NTT said, he agreed in the general outline
with respett' to Adjutants receiving pay. He thought
hoWever chat where there was .a difficulty in getting
goOd •Adjutaras, that Serjeant_Majors from Re-
. gular Troops might be resorted to as Adjutants for
,Volunteer Cops-. He then adverted to, and
re.stated his former proposition with respeEt to
transferring Officers froin the Line as Field Officers.
in Volunteer Corps,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, it was the strong disposition of Ministers to
agree to any thing that could tend to improve the •
discipline of the Volunteer Coips, consistent with
the nature and principles of the constitution. It
was his opinion • that the -,purpose of the Right
Hon. Gentleman. would' be better answered by the
appointment of Inspecting Field. Officers who were
appointed from Officers of the "Line. He objeaed
to the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman for
the appointment of Field Officers. to Volunteer Corps
from. the Line, because the Volunteers should not
- be led to suppOse that it was intended to graft upon
the system,any thing not congenial to its nature.
He knew that a degree of jealousy 'had been cawed
in some Volunteer Corps by the appointment of In.
speEting Field Officers, because 'they were .liable to
a sort of compulsory inspedion by persons receiv.
ing ,pay. He was convinced, however, of the
necessity of appointing Inspefting Field.-Officers, and
that the Volunteers could not be an efficient_ force
without them ; but if Field-Officers from the Line
were introdUced into the Volunteer Corps, it would
necessarily create jealousy. It had been made part
of the proposition, that Field. Officers from the Line
should not 'besappainted to Volunteer Carps without
' the consent of the Commanding. Officers.; but this
was placing a .Commanding Officer in a situation of
great difficulty and delicacy. If he 'recommended
the appointment of a Field Officer from the Line, it
might he considered as a confession of his own in.
sufficiency ; whilst, if he refused to assent to a re-
commendation of that nature, he might be liable to
censure—add to this, there were many Volunteer
Corps which already had the benefit of the a—
sistance of Military Officers of great experi-
ence, either. as Commandants, or as holding
Commissions in such Corps. At the same time it
was his wish that it should be a part of the instruc-
tions from the Commander in Chief to the General,
Officers commanding Districts, to spare Field Offi-
cers from the Regulars, wherever it can be done, in
order to perfect the discipline of the VOlunteer Corps. .
1-ie:repeated that .the objed of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman was answered by the appointment of InspeCt•-
• ing Field Officers, and 'also by the appintrnent from
the Line of Adjutants and.Serjeant Majors.
Mr. PlTT.s.aid, as. to the appointment of In-
spetting FieldOfficers,•it was obvious that could not
interfere with his -proposal -of appointing Field Offi.
cers from the Line to assist in disciplining Volun-
teer Corps, as the persons appointed Inspecting Offi.
cers held the rank of Lietitenant..Colonels---whilst .
he proposed to .appointlersems, probably Captains,
from Half-pay:- At feast they might try whether any
such persons itighi be obtained; at any rate, the
two descriptions of persons Were wholly distinet,
as 00 one Wits appointed an. Inspefting Officer who
had not been a Field Officer in the Army, whilst he
proposed to take Field Ufficers 'for Volunteers from
those in the Line-Whn held Subaltern Commissions.
The Right. Hon. 65entlernan had said, That such 'a
•meastkrvwoold'he likely to create jcalbusk : he was
sorry to hear ii, hut certainly the. appointment of
Inspeeting Field Officers was not sufficient to render
Volunteer Corps-in any degree well 'disciplined.--
Some of those Officers had half a County to attend
to, And he would ask, whether they could in that
case do much more than relate what they had
beers told by others, with rasped to the dis.
cipline of Corps, instead of being intimately ac-
quaintml with it them Selves. now, how-
ever told, that because persons had been appointed
to see that instructions had. been given to Vo.
lunteer Corps, that it was unnecessary.to appoint. -
persons to instruct them i he could nottonceive.this
to be very Conclusive reasoning. He did. not be:. -
lieve that aur•jealousy wool( be eXcited by.tfic
pointment of Field Officers of the.desnription hehad
-allutieti to ;. it woultiii‘ila .o
rather: lcieers7.4.ushe,(l).f.bwytehestiapep:
-pointing inspeU.ing
riot to the Commanders of the Regiments. Add to
-this, that Inspecting Field OfficerS .were: appointed •
by a compulsory regulation, whilst all he proposed
was tu proti4e' Field, °filters where it was request.

~.• • . . .
e,lby the Commitilirtg Officers of:Ctirps; therefore
there was still leis cause for .jealousy,, • Another
griend of obj;:ion was,. that Commanding Officers
wouid he plac:d in a situation of great delicacy;
i;e did =not see the force of this objeftion. Sup_
pose the Commanding Officer were to recommend the
appointment of 4 Field Officer from the Line to his
Corps, he would only indicate that he was a man of
totiMon sense,' and that he was more anxious to do
hii'duty than to be aftuated by. trifling vanity; on
the other side, jibe declined such accommodation,
• Ile might be liable to censure, for not doing that
which'he ought todo.':As to any objeetion of eCo,
nomy, the saving whiCh might •arise from not pm..
suing the regulations he proposed, ought not to:he
put in competition with the. advantages which would
arise from its adoption. For these reasons he was
still inclined to persist in urging the propositions
which he had before made.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEOUER said,
that if the description of persims alluded to by the
Right Hon. 'Gentleman were appointed; they might
assume an, importance which would be inconsistent
with the general system of the Corps. He instanced
the Volunteers of Ireland, who had had .no such
Officers, and who had displayed the best discipline,
as well as the greatest courage•antl.zeah•
GeneraI_TARLETON bore testimony to the ex.
cellence of the discipline of the Volunteer Corps of
Ireland.

General' LOFTUS objeBeti to Officers being sent
from
.Camps or other military stations in the hour
of danger to discipline Volunteer Corps.
The CHANCELLOR of :he EXCHEQUER said,
his idea was, that such assistance shotild be at the
discretion of the General 'of the Distril.

Mr. PIT!' said, that in the Maritime Distrias
such assistance might he provided, .but with respea
to the Corps in the interior, they. shbuld be assisted
in discipline by Officers from-balf-pay.

. . .
Mr. W. 15ICKENSON observed . that there:
must be good, Officers to make good Soldiers.---7.
As to economy,. it was not a question of
econotnizing money, -but the blood and lives
of the people ;- it. was necessary. to have good
Officers to ensure disciplintt, and it , was necessary
to have discioline in infer to elsure success ; and
he would ask Whether defrats were considered as
cheap articles by ,he. piesent Administration ? If
an Enemy were to land, the Country might have
reason to curse such parimonv. If the Bill now
before the House was made any thing of, it would
be made by the Minority, and not by the Mijority ;
for if it had pas,ed as originally brought in, it
would have been one of the strong instances of the
weak conduct of a feeble Administration.
Mr. HIL EY ADDINGTON s-aid, he would leave
to the decision of the House and the Public the
Elon. Gentleman's charge of Economy against the
present Administration. He obje&ted to any mea-
sure for the introduaion of Field Officers from the
Line into Volunteer Corps, as it would tend to
create dissensions amongst the Officers and Privates
of these Corps.
•Mt. WINDHAM wished to understand precisely
the meaning of his Right Hon. Friend'i (Nit. Pyri.)
proposition, as he could not consent, to rob the Line
of Officers, in order to' di.scipline Volunteer Corps.
Mr. PITT said, his proposition was to rake Of-
ficers from the Half-pay, where they were useless,
and'to make them useful by Contributing to disci_
pilot Volunteer Corps.
Mr. W. WiliNE deprecated the economy of i7l /1i:•
nesters, as its only objet'} was to diminish theirex-
penees, which were to come before Parliament,
whilst a greater weight fell upon the People.
Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE adverted to the erec-
tion of B:taCons, and instanced one in the West
Riding of Yorkshire, guarded by four persons, one
of ‘sh,ni had only one leg, another had only
,one,
arm, the third had lost the roof of his mouth, and
the fourth was notoriously, drunken, and each
.of
these were paitiliall-a-goioea per
Mr. .Secretary YORKE said, that Beacons had
been erected in the. West Riding of Yorkshire with-
out consulting the General of the Distrid,. Lord
Mulgrave.
Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE said, they were
ereaed by order of the General of the Districa.
Mr. • Secretary YORKE said, he had understood
the contrary.
After some farther ObserVations from Lord
TEMPLE, Sir WM. MI,IfNER) Sir 'HENRY MILD-
NI,Ay, and other Nlembers, the Clause was agreed to.
On the Clitise relating to the. recovery of Fines
and Penalties,

Mr. PITT sUggested thßt it would be better to
give an option in case of non-payment, either to
levy the fine by distreiS, or to inflid imprisonment
for two or three days or .a week, as the distress
might be injurious to the family of the person dis.
tressed upon.
Mr; G. VANSITDART was for extending the Im.
prisonment to.a.fortnight.
-The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
the ImprisOnMent oftthe. Individual would be more
injurious to his family than levying the fine by dis:
tress.
Mr. Ptrr explained, that the idea Was, to vest a
discretionary power in the Magistrate, to imprison,
suppose for a week., in the default' Of distress.
Sir R. BUXTON strongly recommended the al-
lowing a certain number of days, at the expiration
of which, if the penalties were nut paid, the Magi_
strate should have the power-of commi'ttini, in the
case of default.
Mr. CUR 00, Ell said a few words.-

Mr. S T CMG ES BOURNE Triterided, that:
the optional power proposed to- given to the
Magistrates, proceeded on the mosehumane and IL
heral principle that it was possible to intreduce
into a case of pecuniary. penalty. "t
Mr. BURL AND proposed the introduaion of a
Clause, in subst4ii e enacting, th4t 111,se- of a rc
fusal ounegied to 'pay the fine after a given num.
tor rof days.(fiAte was proposed in the first instance),
it should then be lawful for the Aigjstrate to com.
mit, Fact.

Mr. 110 MOUSE spoke shartly in support of the
Chancellor of the 'Exchequer''s idea in fa'vour of the
mode' of ilistrtsY, as imptisonrito,'nt would evidently
prevent the individual from earning the accustomed
provision for hit finniiy,
Mr. WHITBREAD made a variety of otiserm
Lions ors thz part' of clio BAH under discuslion : he

tv*:hclined to

- - -
purse but would not resort to iirfprtsontrierti—el,
teiSt '.here it was indis'pencably
proceeding of distress he th.ought car=e of ex .r-

oppression-; bOt as some principle c)f
must obtain, he thought the option ....of distrt'ss
_ _

or imprisonment Should- be given. With respea
to the Application of these penaltie., they were to
go to the common f43nds of the different Corps lot

defraying the necessary ekoences,• &c; But in Ob.,
serving upon this point. •he . must • repeat what he
had said thereon on a former occaio,, ; he tl'inght
it would be a-sounder and More Manly policy•to come
forward ati once and provide lei- the payment of such

expenses out of the public 'purse ;as he -predi:ie!d,-
for want of-certain and unfailing funds, the greater
number of the Corps would fall to pieces and cease
to exist. This he said, to a..cetz'ain degree, was

exemplified by the instance of one of the City Corps,
where, out of the requisite sum of about i
he understood 7 or 80001. or some very large sum
remained due. Several Corps were destitute of
the most necessary articles. It was now of little
consequence, whether the plan of subscription was
originally a wise Measure. He thotiglit them, now
at least, very improper ; they were providing for a
permanent system in the Bill. As
_'that was. the eve,
let them do it with their eyes open, let them nor blink
the genuine question.; they should contemplate die
danger as it ought to be viewed. There were many
articles of expense absolutely necessary to he in-
curred in., respect of the Volunteer Corps :
Keeping.: the arms clean and in repair, • was
one of t the principal items ; the 'payment "of
the Drummers was another indispensal-k requiu
site.: he wished' to know wheihrr that was to be
provided for.out of any particular• Fund ? There
was more money thrown away in respoa of the Vo..
lurneers sl ice their institution than would set on
fOot an immense Regular Force : ler the private.
subscriptions and annual contributions be calculated,
and see what an immense aggregate they would
amount,. to ! The present system was on- of the most
profuse and extravagant that was ever yet broached.
One or two Members rose, and expres.ed theii
sentiments, that what Mr. WHITI3IIEAD was aZI:.
vancing was not in order.
• Mr. 111111TBRE.4D resumed.—Whar he said
was striCtly in order, and adiianced then with a view
to save the time of the House ; the penalties were ap.
plicable to the funds, Isis observations were therefore
in order. As to the qaestiop, he reprobated the tarter
want ofecouumy in the system. A large regular force
might have over and over again be put in.:kill-tick
for less money. In process of time the preSen't
sources would fail, indivtduala would evcts, year
become more weary or less able to pay the contri-
butions. Speakinginore immediately to the point in
question, were the alternative of imprisonmen't 're-
solved on, he should prefer the shortest possible
periud.
Mr. PAUG WAN thought it ineombent "ors him
traexplain ; that of-the. Corps which Ite c'nceiv&l
the Hon. Gentleman to allude to, he 'wits himself a
Member—that so far from the Carps being in'debt,
it possessed ,considerable • funds ; and - that •sii' far
from, being discontented, they we're the first to'
offer.permanent service. . . .
The discussion. continued. .Messrs. HOBHOUSPf
13.NARD, YORKE, and- BURL-AND Ittickei, in the
course of which, Mr. Secretary Yott.KE -piorsed
the introduainn of some words, to render it corred,.
and'suitable to the Clause in the Bill.

Mr. H. LASC ELL ES thought that the SCCEI-
- of fines should he prevented, as they might
run up to an amount that might impede the resigna-
tion of a Member when he should so determine.

Mr. PITT referred. the . Hon. Member to a patiiih,
ticular part of the Clause, where the case was pro•
vided for by the words. . .
Mi. ROSE expressed his opinion, that the Ma.
gistrates should be vested with the power of emir-
Inittingto,the nearest, place of confinement. -

The Clause, as amended, was then agreed to.
Some discussion then took place, tespening a
subsequent provision in the Bill, similar to the pre,
ceding one, in some of its ,effetts, but principally
affeaing a superior class of individuals. s_ The Gen,
tlemen who delivered their opinions were principal-
ly Messrs'. WHITBREAD, CURWEN, Sec. YORKE,
BRAOGE, THOMPSON, and Wm. DUNDAS. It Was
contended on the part of those who supported the
Bill, that those persons who were able to pay, but
who from obstinacy, or other motives, did .not
choose to pay, should be decidedly compellable ;
and with respea, to those, the option of distress or
imprisonment, was _proposed to be left.

Mr. FOX objeded to the principle, as regulated
by the provisions of the Bill. Though the Mem-
bers had agreed to the payment of certain Fines;
they had no idea .of eventually incurring a capital
punishment; by such a regulation, the Volunteer
was put in .a different situation from that in which
he considered himself, when making his agreement,
Mr. W. DUNDAS observed, that if the Volun.,
teer agreed -Zoiltz fide to pay certain fines, he was
bound to male them good, or he had agreed.to no.
thing. , '

Mr. PITT oberved, that .a degree or comput_
lion; case under discussion was evidently
necessary. They should recollea that' the right
(1,41 the Volunteer to resign was admitted, in case
liOl was not satisfied with the . regulationi.--
Thediscipline of the Corps was surely necessary to be
:preserved ;. and farther, the'fines arose out of rep.
lations agreed to by the jodividuals themselves.
The principle was n: new to this Mt. In the
original Ad. a provision to that eftstt Obtained,
brit it was not rriudified by the optional power:-
The' points at issue resolved into two questions t
the !first, whether in a default of distress, pro-,
ceedings should be.. had against the persOn
.the latter was certainly one in analogy to* the taw
the Country ; and the .secnnd, which involved
the only new point,., was, whether an alternative
of suNetting the Individual
,to:inprisontnent should
be allowed, and that this'',avass the mere lenient of
the two, he thought had been‘elearly establiShed.--i
After considering the topic a little farther, he ex-
pressed his concurrence in the restilivion for allow-
ing the optional power. ,v
Some further Clauses and Pr01.491004s of the 'Bill
were then agreed to without c,bservat, when it
was agreed to report progress, and ask leave to sit
again.