The Sun.
London, England, 1803-08-12 00:00:00

STATE OF I LZELAND,

Mr. HUTCHIN,SON roseogreeably to his notice
of Motion, and observed, although an Hon. Gentle.
man under, the Gallery, had, said ,that we might
separate for the Summer, as all the great and itn..
portant business of the State had been dispatched,
yet be did not think that we .had done all that might
be done, ai Ireland was still 'in danger, which called
on the. House to rake its present situation into 'Da-
tum consideration before they separated,: the' sub.
je4 was an important one—it was no.less,
tlthan' the
happiness of a large body of people, WllO were U-
der the-direOion and care bi-' the House, and be
would venture to affirm, that there was wanting some
sound principle in order to ensure happiness and una'.
niMity among the 'people of Ireland. It was his wish
to see that Coutitry;a Land of comfort, :not nurse
of discontent. He felt it his duty to complain cif
the supineness which had been shown by, Ministers
towards the People of that Country, in not having
mate a noble endeavour to free them from many
difficulties they now suffer. He should not enter
into a long historical narration with respect toto Ire.
land , the principle of .the Union between this
Country. and Ireland was: established on a principle
of disunion, if he might be allowed to convert
terms. Ireland has not improved in her political
regulations. for several years past, but England, he
Was proud to say, enjoys every blessing in every
sense of the word, and is a grand', example of poll.
tical anti moral greatness to every Country in the
world, which arises fitim the paternal care of a •
great, wise,' and virtuous Monarch : but before
Ireland can enjoy English happiness, every thing ,
'mist be begun afresh : he had to observe that there
must not be any distinaion in that Country. The
distresses IA the Poor must also be investigated and
relieved. It was necessary for the support of Ire.
land that residence of every description should be
enforced. There are vast trails of Country occu.
pied by persons who have never seen their Land.
zts inogi
kinkindness,lords,,or scarcely know their names it was highly
necessary in his mind, that those Gentlemen who
own so much land in Ireland should reside there.
Great advantages would ensue from, residence : the
a
People would be more refined from friendly inter.
course with them, and instead of dislike and hatred
at merely the names. f their-landlords:they would by
living in the neighbourhOod and showing them little
a
get their love, and consequently find
a scourge to any Invader who might attempt their
shores. If the Imperial Parliament Was to make the
State of Ireland once the subjed of their serious
Consideration, and adopt 10PM method 1.6 relieve
the Poor People, the French Tyrant who has
led half 'the Continent, would not then ever think
of invading that Country; There was yet sufficient
Loyalty among the People to put down Rebellion
and even resist a French Force. He highly dis'ap.
proved oldie diScord which has taken place in that
Country, and which has been irjorivos to the

piness of the People: He had been told of the vices
of the Country, but it must be recolleeted that your
Laws have made them. If any person told him that
the House could not give the People relief, he should
be inclined to doubt his judgment or sincerity:. af..
ter what he had said, he hoped that Parliainent
would render the Country some good. Whatever
have been the crimes of some of tit: Natives of Ire-,
land, as. well As their sufferings, he hoped every
thing would be.done to serve the .People of that
CountrY. He certainly di approved tAf His Majes.
ty's Ministersin the Management of Irish 'Affairs:
they ought not to- have procrastinated these (veg.',
tions of Public happiness, which would, if discussett,
tend to benefit-the Country. He hoped.-His Ma-
jesty's Ministers would next Session, be prepared
to go into the subject. He could pidure in him:telt' '
a happiness that would be given; to the People of
Ireland by, the presence of an illastrioui ;
all ranks would ;fink
_round him with adriiirattc..,ri
and delight : the Illusiirinui,Tersonage alluded
to was His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales.
If His Royal Highness was totake the aiive Brarich
to that Country, instead'of Ireland being the thea,
tre of discord and confusion,.it' would, by his shill'.
ties and exertion, .become the temple of peace, It.
WAS hit wish- to stop Rebellion with the utmost
Country. rigour, but heboped Humanity would never be lost
sight
of
in the administration of the Justice of-the
passed throUgh/ the Irish
House in the 4oth of the present King, to indrnnify
the Magistrates of that Country for their public
duty during the Rebellion, which he would leave.
without comment. Bur he thought there Were tom;
Noble Personages who would hiiN't a great deal to
.answer for, from what he knew of public affairs in
Ireland.

He concluded with moving, " That an humble,
Address be presented t 6) His IVI•j..c9CY, pray jog he
will, be graciously- pleased to give direittion,s
,that-
there be laid bel,re this House such ifil.n.rmtion
as has been received respecting the late reltelli,ius
outrages in Ireland, and the present state of ghat--
part of the Unitc4l 'lCingdom."

Lord HAIVKA'SB(IRY said, .he did not intend
to ask the attention of the Hotise for any great
length of time,• nor was it necessary, for indee.l
the speech of the Wm'. Gentleman, as the ground,
for his motion, had precluded the - necessitr"s and •
had almost put it out of the power of the House to
enter into the question in the way he had proposed,
that was to say, Conne6ting the motion with the sub.
stance of the 'speech. Now conSidering the stare
of our affairs abroad, and the great ITICiIIITCS now
PettS'fiaadopted at home ; and considering that
the grerYaitler number of Merbers were lone to the -
different places which most immediately reqtarva.
'their, presence, to gi ye died to the very measures
which they is Legislators had assiited in emo!ting,,
and Which the wisdom of Parlianwnt kid adopted ;
considering all these matters, Ise conic' not. help say.
ing, this motion was highly inexpedient to. be
adripted by the lionse ; indeed he had no difficulty
in .saying, that any motion not proposed to be fol.
towed up by any pradiczl measure, with a viem to
some beneficial effect, must at all times beliab!,-.! to
great objetion in that House, because it was ta::ip'g,
up the time of. the House unavailingly, and
ing upon the Country sothetimes very great inciin.
veniences, by -agitating. jilt minds of the People
upon. topics which, if discussed at all, should be
-discUssed fully and diretily, and not in a collateral
way; .This was a general objection to all .motionsof this nature,- , ineataing always to comine it to
such motions, and not to-say any thiog to preclude
any inquiry' in. the House when a fair ground was,
laid' for it, and when it was prop.se4 to he
up by some poetical and beneficial measure. liav-
ing 'made this general observation, and- beggit,g to
add, that this motion came after all the tit:Unary
business of" the House was over for the Session, or
At the elOse of the Session, as :7ir might be called,
and fur that reason also he permitted to
say, the motion would'be sufficiently objeCtionable
to the. HOuselo reje4t it, unless it was proposed to
he followed up by some radical measure of a [acne.
ficial tendency. Such was the case most 'rematka..
bjy, for not only was this motion brim& forward
at the conclusion of the Session, but the 1-louse did
but 'know the Gntirse. which the 1-Ion„ Gentleman•
intended to pursue itt the event of the House adopt.
ing his.,Motion, and that too when the attendance of
Ivlenthers was Mich as that :the tiouse could have but
few -in it,. Gentlemen being 'now trec,essarily
itt
the Country ; so tharif the -Motion was adopted,
and the Ivan. 'Gentleman: pursued the subjeCt, it
could not, for, the present at least, meet with that
investigation which the subjeft would necessarily
diwnetoteiutnaliii
intended.
hinA: whichi in rit!
rlrnier te,:a:ricteliasociernnin,y,t Ghitionstlaleeleiviiirnt:;l(a)
la,%ps,visrittleiatititeetiti;:cl:yece
farpre s7nktil:nganfonerri.t,atHetheWislted not to be miiond,r„,
stood; he had no idea of resisting imy application
for inforMation to that Mouse, when a proper ground
was laid-for it, either with regard to lteland, the
conduct of the ExeCutive GOvernt»ertt tlwre or here
Or upon any other subjeti ; but then the intOrmation
must be asked for on a ground that it was to be Ital.'
lowed tip by sonic praetical proceedit% for the he,
nefit of Ireland, or any other part of the United
Empire, which it could not be 'in state
of the Session, Having said this on ;• topiesi
215 applied to the present case, he t ,y hoc
little on the particulars to whit'.; ; otie. •
Man kid called the attention Of tl douse. did
not ORO to have anyveat kno,v;,..(ii;c: t
.of Ireland, as to what wag it's present., Or ri
tistuture condition; knoiv it as any ottir
pitfion might knriw it, •by history and by general
observations, and by raking a great drat of inactest
in that pan of the Ut)ited..limilc, ifcMl some

documents which he might have, which were open'
to the eye of any individual ; but he protested that
as to Ireland he saw nothing in this Motion which.
tended to be of any advantage whatever. . The
pos,ible effea of agreeing to it was that of un-
' hinging the minds of the people at a time ,when
it
was most essential they should be undisturbed by •
political disquisitions. .Indeed, he had no difficulty
of saying, that Motions Upon the foundation of al
lodged grievances should never be assented to, un-
less those who state the, grievances are provided
•wiih.inime remedy fur them, such a remedy as may •
at least seem to he expedient to be adopted. He
rev/lied this as a general maxim,' that when any
pt,ison roinpliiined of an evil, he should produce the'
reified), he proposed to apply to it ; so that the
ffluse may have an opportunity of deciding upon.
the evil and the proposed remedy together. This he
had no difficulty in laying down as a general doc-
trine, applicable to all species of complaints made.
for the mismanagement of politiCal affairs ; hut if
circumstances ever made a Motion particularly un-
fit, they had. that effea at the present moment ; in
supporiing which assertion, he need poly revert to
the present situation of our affairs abroad .and at
home,' and those things which we had lately wit.
nessed with regard to Ireland; for without en.
tering into the question, whether Ireland has been
more or less well or ill governed lately, or how it was
governed, or what may have been the causes which .
have proanced certain effeas, or what the remedies
may be, he did not believe that the motion now
titf)re the lou‘e would have any good effra, for
he did nut believe that those which were stated to
be the cause of the evils of Ireland had any con.
nection with' them, nor did lie believe that some
of the remedies which had been. mentioned would
have the effect of remedying these evir. Be that
as it.might„ the qtiesiion now with
_every man in
Great. Britain, and indeed every, part of this United
Empire, was this—What is best to be done tit this
moment, to oppose the foreign Foe,. and to put an
end to the machinations of domestic Enemies and.
Traitors ? the result of deliberating on that
question ought to be, and must be, to exercise,
firinly and steadily,. all the power and energy of
the EMpire, not by looking back and asking in.
gerliet.s men to see whether they, could not find
something that might possibly have been better if
troll ,acted over again ; he was confident such a course
Of proceeding could produce no good whatever, but'
might he the cause of great evil. He was of opi-
nion that the energy ut the United Empire should
.be called forth at this period,; that the whole of
its strength should be exerted to support the Con.
stitution of the Country in Church and State, as
1w law established, and against the Enemies of the
Empire, foreign and domestic, at the present crisis;
and he would ask the House, whether, under all
the circumstances by which we were surrounded;
this motion was likely, in the least degree, to pro.
duce that effea ? on the contrary, he thought it
pregnant with evil.
Mr. W. ELLIOT declared that he was so far

from
,thinking the Motion now before the House
' an improper one, that if it had not been determined
some time to be brought forward by the Han. Gen.
tittnao who made it,- he should have 'thought it his
duty to have made it himself. As to the informa.
Lion now asked for, he was astonished that• Mini.
sters themselves had not laid it befere the House ;
be was astonished that they had permitted so much
time to pass without 'making some further commu.
nication to the House .than they had made on the
sobjekt of Ireland. It:might be asked of him, if
this was his Opinion, why was he silent when His
MaieStyls Message upon that subjea came to the
tiou+e to which he would observe, that he was
not pre,,ent when that soak place ; when he heard
it he was much apdeil by it, and. particularly as it
relved to the fate of the late Lord KILWARDNST,
on whose charader he pronoUnced an handsome pa.
oegyrie. He ohherved, however, that he thought
that that- horrid event, attocious as it. was, arose
out of same sudden affray, and was no part of.a
systematic rebellion, for then he hail not read
the Proclamation which was issued on that 'oe.
cation. , Ile observed that Ministers had mis.,
cot:dueled themselves towards :the. House upon
this sobjc6, and said, that if he had been in the
House at the Lyme of the discussion of it, he
sh old have c,oicurred in the•sentiment of his Right,
I'h Friend (Mr. Witinomst), not that he
should have opposed the measure which the House'
adopted, because that appeared to be necessary, but
he should have coot:omit in the sentiments expressed
by his Right Hon; Friend, that there never was a
Thea.ure of that narure before adopted by• the House.,
upon such scanty information; for Martial La'N had
never before been ad opted by Parliament. wi; boat
ample information of mattrr on which it was foupd,
col,---Fie neverlbeleis would have adopted Martial
Law, he had said so already, but he should have
&he so from a conviction of the necessity of the
thing, not becan,e Ministers had done their duty in
laying proper information before the House, nor upon
the statement of the Proclamation.—He said there
• milli a gnat difference between the present case and
that on , which,- Parliament had formerly adopted
Martial Law in Ireland, for then they had the reports
of two ,`,ecret Committees, stating much matter
on which the 1-1011,C 141,1 justified in proceeding, but
in the present
.case, IVlittisttis would not give to
the Howe idorniation. They might say they had
not•perfed informatioo at that time .to give, and
therefore they could not give what they had rot,
but they pnasessedinformation now, and they ought
to give it. He maintained, that Ministers had
dispfayiel great ignorance on this subjea; or they
• had been criminal—He must presume that Ministers
had informatilon upon this sohjqt, or he must
pute to them a systematic delusion towards that
House and the Public. There was, in the most fa.
vourable way of viewing the matter, a culpable re.
missness on the part of the Executive Government:
in Ireland—He believed that Government had infor-
mation upon the subjed of the Coriipiracy—Now, if
their ioformation was Byer so defeCtive, :he thought
they had been remiss, for in 4 Country like Ireland,
there woold have been no harm in a little Preclit
tion ; but he tunderstood, that a wetk before the Ate.
bfilion broke our, some men had been wounded, and
there wars a discovery of some gunrowdet ;. and nit
theYritLyi' the day 1)10,:e thtsConspirack happened
to be detected, Goveenment received informa.

tion, stating that thediSaffeCled tsartrhad betrayed
symptoms of great agitation—That :they, had left
their work in parties ; which was a signal of Insnr. I
ration ; and above all that men were coming from
various parts of the Country to Du : now this
ought to have put the Executive Government fin their
go ird. Fie did not say that no preparation was
made against this Insurredion, but he said it was.,
an inadequate preparation Ministers were stir..
prised by what bad taken place, but he was not.—
.
,
He had received a letter from a person not likely to
form any opinion adverse to Government without
good evidence, stating, that the Tenops in the Bai_
racks did not come for a considerable time after the,
assault was commenced,; and it was quelled by the Vo.
lunteer Corps called « the. Liberty Rangers."—The
Garrison was not prepsted, the. Troops of the Line
were not informed in time. He spoke from informati.
on which satisfied him of culpable negligenCe of the
Executive Government, for which reason he should
be glad to see their Dispatches, to know how the filets
stood. He wouldfamiliarite this case by example.
Suppose Government here had information of a Com,
spiracy against London, and that they had learnt,
the People in Kent and Surrey had left their work,
and were coming to London in parties; would not
'Government here be thought remiss if it suffered the
Metropolis to be surprized as Dublin was ? He be-
lieved that the indignation. of the whole Town
would be directed against them. Why, then, he
would ask, did we not feel the same sentiment with
regard to Dublin ? Why shoiild we neglect Ireland.?
Could Ireland feel. that Government had done its
duty with regard to that part of the UniteaKing.
dom ? Could the Member's of that House lay their
hands upon their hearts and say that they had done
their duty, without calling for full information
upon this sub
jai , Some months ago the CHAN.
CELE:OR of the EXCHEQUER proposed a provi.
sion tor the Prince of Wales, and he said the.
time was particularly proper for granting it, be.
cause a time of profound Peace, and he na,de an
impression upon the House, and on the Royal Ex.
change, that there was a probability of the Peace
being of long duration ; but in a month afterwards'
a Message came stating armaments whichiindicated
the danger of an Invasion, So that at one day Allis
great and prosperoUs Country sylts represented by
Ministers as being free front danger, and then in a
month it was represented as being in danger of In-
vasion, This he called a misrepresentation of the
state of things, and for which- Ministers were re.
sponsiple, or they. were culpably negligent in nut
procuring the necessary information. It' he awas
told of any great effea being produced, he naturally ,
looked for a great cause fur it : but when he looked at
the correspondence between His Majesty's Ministers
and the Enedy, and found that Military Spies were
deteded in Ireland in the beginning of the Peace,-
under the name of Commercial Commissioners, he
would haVe thought that the vigilance of Ministers
had been turned to Ireland. He could not account
for this 8611 of surprise on Ministers with regard
to Irelatid ; a lulling spell 'seemed. to have over.
spread their faculties. They seem to have been
almost petrified or rendered calloOs. ' He should
trouble the. House no More' upon the' present occa.
sion, for ,varions, reasons ; but he did think it ought
to know the present circumstances of Ireland. Ile
saw things in the Newspapers sun which the Hoo,e
ought to have information. He had heard of the
Declaration of the Rebels. We ought to knoW the li
movements in ahe.North. Ina word, he protested
.against the separationunder this ignorance of affairs.
Lord CASTLREAGRiIaid he should submit to
the House a very few words on the.subied now be-
fore it'. The Speech of the Hoe. Gentleman who
brought this matter forward was Ala general na-
ture, and embraced tooicka much too large for the
present mode of,di.cussing, for each of them would
demand
.a separate discussion before justice could be ;
done it so that he should have little indeed to say
if his HonaFriend (Mr. ELL toT) had not brought
forward some topicks of which it was his duty to'
take some notice. lie thought the view his I tan.
Friend took of this matter, divided itself into two
points ;--one," that the Executive Government
were bound to give more information on the Af.
fairs of Ireland than they had given relative to
the late melancholy occasion.—Where his Ho.
nourable Friend formed the 'principle 'or states.
man-like Motive fur giving that information,
he was at a loss to know ; as little was the ap.
plication for this informationlounded on precedent
in ,the pradice of the, Executive Government of
Ireland'; and he did not think that the precedents
to'be foundia the pradice of the Executive Govern.
ment were wholly 'unworthy Of notice upon This
occasion—He spoke of the Executive Governments
of Lord CAMDEN and Lord CORNWALL ; no Go.
,vernment of which he had ever known the History
was placed' in la situation more difficult and critical,
and extricated itself oot of its difficulties so well as
those ache two Noble Lords whose names he had just
mentioned, but certainlyneither ot' these two Govern.
meats .furnished 'a precedent to support the Mo-
tion now before the .House. It was indeed true,.
that after the Rebellion', when all the Treason was
put down, when individuals were brought 'to jus-
tice, Government came to Parliament 'with all the
information they possessed, but not until 'all the
in lividuals accused of being concerted in ilte Re.
hellion had,beep brought to justice ; this was after
the danger was' over,' ntat like the present, where
the tlangei was, pending, and therefore how a
than of reasoning powers and enlightend Mind Could
eiaaatthis Mutton to-14 agteed to, by which a full
vieW,wai to be given
,of all that Government knew
With relied to danger, he was at a loss, since all
reasoning was against it, 'andho precedent for it,—
Thre was manifeatly in this 'Motion great danger,
if the House;comply with it, for if Govennuent
brought fortvaid the information now called for, the
atatementivinahl present to thalouse a pan ial account,
tipoti which they would not endeavour to. judge,
because they could.. not judge fairly ; it was
therefore impossible that this information should be
produced without either not .being relizil, u t
p,m
air, iifarrliad npoo, .wonlkcontiuce to an unfair
decision. 'The 'loose wouldoherefore not require,
because it would not determine, upon infaraiatiou
that was impeafeet, anti he trusted he had oow 6;116-
fled his Hutt. Friend hiMself; that this unto iry was,
'improper at the present nymeot. As to whit •xvits
formerly, done his Hon, Friend had no grouad, for

this Motian by way of reference to former Noma.
ings. On the former occasion the House had aned
nn his ,Motion for the renewal of Martial Law in
Ireland ; the ground on which he 'urged lhat-tatb-
jea was, .the pressing or immeliace (I.lnger that way
felt at that time, but he rested- it on the foundation
of a precautionary system. There were no argil.
mews at that time on the sithjed of the, produ4tion
of all information in the hands of Government ; the
argument then was an argument upon the inconve,
nience of delay, and Parliament thought they best
discharged their duty
;by granting that .poWer to
Government for a short_ period, and 'leaving the
Matter to be afterwards reconsidered by Parlia..
ment when the time should expire. The Pio-
clathation in Ireland declared that Treason had.
Appeared in the open streets of Dublin, and if
Parliament believed the fad, thii was a founda-
tion for their proceeding to provide for the Safety
of that Country by declaring Martial Law ; for
certainly in many cases, Parliament had afted on
.the notoriety of an evil, without any formal or
specific communication from the Executive Govern-
ment ; and therefore, he
,trusted, his Hon. Friend
would no longer persist in censuring Government
for bringing forward the measure of Martial Law,
without•laying more information before ParliaMent
upon this occasion. Another p.m of the charge to.
day was, the criminality of the Irish G•vernmen
for not cOunteraeling the mea,ures of the Rebels :--
Upon this his Lordship said, he begged. to be UR.
derstood as not designing to impn!e to any one a.y
improper views, yet he th,ught it Was one to ite

coruni, that however Willing giceculive Goverement
might be to discuss all m burrs relative to their
conduct, vet it was due to dec..rum; not to take
it up collaterally or 'accidentally, but that question
of their ended should he made one large general
question, capable of embracing the whole• ot that
conduCt. Now. his Honourable F; had accused
the Government Irelarid for n t taking measures
of precaution ; he difreted front his Honourable
Friend upon that subjed life amount of the daily
guaril'in Dublin was very greet. As to the. Gat.
iiion not being ready to turn out, immediately in. the
streets of Dublin—nothing appeared to make that-a
reasonable expedazion in itself at the time t—a body
canceled, in that part of the town which was the
soene of outrage, and in which unfortunately
.fell a
venerable charter whosse loss wps much to be de-
plored, but it' was a thing that might have hap.
pened to any other person who
,had become
conspicimos for his virtue,. and the übjed
,of hatred
to the Assassins ; but if this event of the mot.
'der of this elevated person in the open street
had not happened, the Insurredion not
have 'been considered in the serious light in
which it . was considered in consequence 'of that
event—lt was a Rebellion•to be sure, for the men
were in arms committing a rebellious at ; but they
were soon dispersed ; and there wits no proof what.
ever that Dublin was not suffieienily guarded ;. and
he would observe that if- the Hon. Gentleman made
this a charge againit His Majesty's Government in
Ireland,
.he • would only observe that this was not
the proper course to be taken for that putpose ; but '
certainly there was nothing in the
.nature of the
Rebellion in Thomas-street' that demanded more
force than the Government brought against the
Rebels.— there was no 'proof that the arrange.'
'ilts made by Government on that occasion were
not adequate for the purpose of proteding the City. •
—He had gone through the twopoints which had
been stated against His Majesty's Government in'
Irelared, namely, want of information from. Govern-
ment to the House, under the present circumstances,
and negligence, in not providing against the miss
chief. BAs to the general observations made by. the-
Hon. Gentleman, he went. into much too wide a
field for him to follow on the present occasion,, and'
therefore he should decline it for the present • but
as to the censure which had been cast on the 'Ext..
cutive GosCernment or Parliament of Irefand, he
- couid not, consisiently with the sense he ,had of his
duty, sit silent. Be considered that the Parliament
of Ireland bad-shewn itself as jealous'of Public Li.
berty a 3 any body of men had ever been, under cir.
cumstances similar to theirs. He observed, that the
Clause which was inserted in an.Ati of Parliament
kit the proiedion of the Magistrates who had done
their duty in Suppressing, the Rebellion; was a very
just and wise one. In'some cases there had been ex-
cess of authority, and Adkins were brought by pee.
sons who had suffered by such excesses. Juries adopt.
eel in sitme casei a wrong rule of decision, which was,
by calling on the Defendant in Such.Adions to shew
the cause of his conduct, -and find a verdift against
him, if he could.nnt do so to their satisfadion. This
introduced a' complication of haaishipattpon -Ma;
gistrates in many instances,, from the very nature
of the business in which they were engaged, from
the death of witnesses, and a 'thousand other cit.
cumstances incident to a' RebelliOn ; and many Ma.
istrates who, had tided with the purest love of their
Lountry, might have been ruined ; Parliament
therefore enaded, th,ieinstead of calling on the De.
fendant in sucleadions, to skew that he aded bona
file, the CoUrt should call on the Plaintif prove
the malui aniiims'of the Defendant before a Verdia
should pass against him, and this his Lordship
maintained was an ad 'of justice. The Natite,
Lord- then proceeded to deiced the GavernMent;
of. Lord CAMDIIN and Lord C-ioitalwAitAs in Ire.
land, which he- praised hig)tly, and.observed that-
:they had been so far from being rigorous as some
had imagined, that they Were remarkable inf lenity ;'
that the Military Power had 'lever' been ern p oyc.i ,
except in cases where the. Civil Poser had been tried
in vain : that if there could be any deft.ct im-
puted to them, it arose from too novit disposition
to lenity ; but he was gl id it Lei so happened,
.becaue in Ireland it was_ most es,iential that the
current of public opinicin shOuld go with Govern..
ment, and-that could not he the case wiless tigor,ais
measures were a good deal delayed .; and speaksin,,,,
in the, abstrate, rigorous measures had been La) et .1.1 • -t
too long,. bur considering all circumstances was'
wise. As to outrages, there had been many on bath
sides, -but there never was a Rebellion without
them, He had no doubt that the Hon. Gentleman
Who brought this subject forWird pes,,u,ded that
the publiC interest deneteded that theselonies shOuld
be raked 01,, and all the evils of the. late Rebellion
brought forth anew ; .but'he differed toin'that HOU.'
Gentleman on that subjed. Th. des:ress of itetoni

.
1 which ha en statei to have been general, was -'s
by no me 'the case : the statements of the lustre
al Irani; w
ell as the disposition to Rebellio
had been' y much exaggerated : he would venture
ffir to am, Power in Europe had made more rapid
Isfittafrldie'eltienos n:'ene. :Ili ahansati:lid'eartgs uep;litateirretiallofilat thatri eli)rislißepsrrCtifsitte rtEiltimyejia'ainrs;
its. happin were increasing,still very
i
that the ' ason which had lately been found there,
and whit ad been so much lamented, arose from ota.
jeCts (litre, it from those which the Hon. Gentleman
rapidly, arid
recommerjed remedies fax Most of the topics
touched uon by the
.Hon. Gentleman were .of deli-
Cue discrsion, on which,, from the nature of things,
it was neeasonable to expect uniformity of opinions.
''''d thertfore thelast day of a Session of Parliament
was but it adapted tblheir discussion, and that the
Pot*" esecially, when the Honourable Gentleman
dal noostate, that in his Own mind,- the prop si-
tion which should follow the discussion was made
UP ; but even if he had, . whit ptadical means were ...,
there, .at this instant, .of carrying that mpositiori ~
into effed. The HOnoUrabie Gctltlelllial felt 'inn-
self justified in bringing this suhjed forward before .
rile very few, Gentlemen whl had the °poor on i (Y,,a .
hearing the discussion of it, or-of lisrentog td his
statement. Ile had no doUbt bur, the I lonoua
/Ale Gentleman had satisfied lsis mint that he
was performing a public duty by qtkiag this
Come, but the Noble Laid sail he thooglo, it
avas calculated rather to distrad the Countra, w talk,
of grievant:CS without proving 1% hat Oa y sped..
fivallyare, where thy are tole toiled, ..,r what the
temedies fir them area; and that at a : itill'• o. lico the --.
Vigour the. energy, the wealth, the hoe ur of the ..
Empire are and ought to be embaih..a in the great
cantest in which we are engaged—Whatever ques-
tions may arise on the minute p ints w ilia itvg!,t
be calculated to difrose 'in time still greater we:a1:11
and happiness in Italy d, [rimy t f them disptoahle
in theory, and on which a great diveraity t l °pillion
prevailed, and on which a disquisition would.
he long and Jedious, because it tons be mioutet
and, therefore, it should be sufferidlo sleep Ou;i1
one great previous question, namely, whether the
British EMpire shall retain its Wealth, its I lonour,
and its Happiness, or the whole shall be laid at the
foot of a eirrciless Foe? That was the question nay
for us to consider and to ad upon, o :a1 of O'. eliing
on general points of supp,sed defect,. in ; or GoVent-
mein, which was well calculated to oppose us to the
Enemy, and to preierve our Glory.
Mr. Et LIOT explained:
, Ms. IV/NUHAM said, the N. ble Lord who haa
'first spoken (Lord HAWK ESBUlt.y) had objected to
the proposed Motion, that this was probably the
last day of the Session ; that there was a thin at-
tendance,- and no time to deliberate upon the sub"
jed. So far as the objections applied, they were
of considerable weight ; but those Objettions ap•
plied much more to the speech of the Hon. Gentle.
man (Mt. IitarCHINSON) than to the:Motion. Thar
speech contained a variety of general topics resoe'!l"
ing which he must give a general opinion. lite
Mite of Ireland, improved as it had been oflates
years, wanted a great deal" more to bring it to l'er'
fedion. To use medical terms, that Country was
ailliaed with a chronic complaint, attended win!,
violent paroxysmsr the former required the oh'fr
-operation of a remedy, whilst the latter, wsosaatVeY,
occurred, required -an immediate application : ara
lout of the embarrassment which these circumstances
occasioned 'arose the difficulty of treating that Coon.
try in a proper way.' He thought, at the same
time, that speeches like those of the Hon. Gentle,'
man (Mr. HUTCH INSON) tentred to operate gowit
inasmuch as they skewed a disposition in the 'Le-
gislature to attend to those °Netts more irorne•
diately conneded with the wellareof Iceland. The
objedions of the other Noble Lord (Lord Caoratie.
itsaon) more immediately applied to the qu6ticil* -
Thar Noble 'Lord had- urged the general danger.
which would result from the information called for
being laid before Parliament : the degree of danger
to result depended upon Government, u.s 'they might
Nukok,octshLeicrhincommunication
:aissktehde yfo.rt htzgoh ts
hpotriti)(Pl
he
considered considered compatible with the public interest a" j
f
safety. With reference to this Stilled, as much 1";,
askl h eetli'n;tiv id
mlautchle ciYt'ilfy,kn ?.uleta cif he a idn:ei:rartYrLff"Trs of lea
heis': i'l'.';url,
upon Parliamentary grounds ? They knew, it wa"
'true, that the King's Proclamiiion. stated the c%"
i:thernen theoety's rebellious insurreCtion,. but what colter
infotmation upon the subject was before-Path:llo°C
suspended the Habeas. Corpus AO iiii.,re;
land, and enaded the Martial Law Bull ? lf t"'
InstirreCtion was merely a sudden thing, why s'''''"
strong measures I if it -was permanent, why not i'"
formation I Upon the discussion of the 'lYless3ge
relative to that subject, he was charged with OH'
ing out for deity, but what he proposed was jibe(
to defer the coniideration•of it till the it :tc
it 114;
according to the established usage of Parliametirf ''
at.
to return an Address, coOtaining general declTha
H !ion of the sentiments of that ou,e, and Olen /la
tiring in the-Bill after a short interval. The 1"1,a
Lord had alluded'to a Message brought dowel tc'i'er
Irish Parliament, May 22 , 1.798, but there wast',li..
rt.', material difF:rence, that it was stated that .
'lnsurrection 'then expected might break our t11',1;,•:.
very night; and the whole.of this transaction I°‘34,
place in t:.e vety- City w here the InsuireClion Writ
expedetl to break out, And consequently wlicrei,lo,` '
la ere more competent to- judge of the sups;"'' ' t.ca
we' possibly could be in this Ceuntry. Z- o"" l;(o - .
Message relative -.to sending the Militia to Irellie
'sonic delay t.,uk place, in Compliance With to),
Usages of, the liont.e ; and witloresped to 11'"'IYIL ra
_Pet, he recollected that an Min. Gentlemin i 1
SHERIDAN) not only oPposetil delay, but °V 1'51,,:t
the measure when it was brought forward• be, al,
stated .that the Irish Government were surr,:zi(raf
and chat the Capital was within an ace of' be'
-it.l:,i:nk,,,,,eibibeit't
olett,:istiatsir::eisus iGo t(in
eott
n;:uttir:itil thetiet
eLeatettenr,dsleyntiefrfotulici
lir:.
themissueil nl yof asked,tli e cuoinwt ens twviagrolgdrob::.,,,i Joie,
stated this ai'd it had been denied that the L'the
veroment ot Ireland were surprized, . and tbstilca
Capital was in danger : if they could not al'•
lie o brwgo
upon this. subj :a, the best way would 1 - ihere '
in a special verdid, and state fads. Were wogea '
not powder mills, and, other preraz4oollsl ' ..

I

un--Ic 1101 Flfiretl:riipers really 101" Cllstrum!itili, alit;
the Country People coining in. by preconeerted
agreement ? If all the circumstances were taken to.
g6her, did they nor pr9ve the -existence of a Con
sPi,racy of great depth and breadth ? The mere
assassination of Lord Kilwarden might have been
the sudden ad of a feW traitors, but combining all
the circumstances together, no man could say that
the C ,verninent- were not sorpriled,- or that the
Capital was not in danger. It -halt been- said that
the guards were doubled, as a measure of precaution ;
hut he was well informed on this subjedi that drat
uas not a Measure of extraordinary precaution, but
that it had been done, and was constantly done upon
much more trifling occasions besides, to'say that
a measure was equal to what was adopted, upon such •
. and such an occasi.)n was nothing, the question wai,
Was it enough ? If the Insurredion had broken out
at midnight, instead of breaking out, as it fortunate-
ly did, three hours before, would any one say that
the Capital might not have been one continued scene
of horror and massacre ?" Every, one knew that the.
Insurrection and the Castle were on .one side, and
the Barrack's on the other. If it lt-rtd not been for.
the delay occasioned by the assassination :of Lord
Kilwarden, the next step would have been to the '
Castle, where he understood there was nothing like
a sufficient paid. In one sense, the Irish Govern..
went were notsurprized, as they were continually,
• -receiving information upon the subject, bur,• as in
.this Country, where the warning voice of the -ap.
:ptoaching danger was . treated with disregard, and
those Who talked of that danger held out as alarm.
'lsTs,.tio in Ireland all infoitnation upon. the $111)-
jea of the intended Insurredion was treated with
disregard ; and even a Genera) who gave some in
formation. was. treated in such a manner as to induce
him. to demand a Court-Martial upon his conduft,-
vhich, hoWever, was not granted. The Govern.
mem of :Iceland._ would not believe there was any
danger whilst the mine was digging under their
feet ; they sat in the most serene tranquillity
whilst the explosion Was preparing. The con.
• sequences of which it was very fortunate' were
no worse. It had been said that, he. wished to
.• 'make .people, feel their danger throuth the medium
of their fears, he knew dm) other way, they must
• • •
take'lt as they chose, it might have a different if_
feCt upon different people ; but he believed that the
People of this Country would fight most manfully
against the danger which threatened them. The
syjtem however of Hon. Gentlemen on the other
side of the House, was quite the reverse ; they said,
rdo not tell them of their danger, for they wilt he
frightened out of their wits, and at lase they. were
obliged to confess the danger. • Uron this subjeet
they were much obliged to' himself and those, with
Whom hi acted, for stating broadly and openly the
danger-to which .we were, exposed, it was 'like
throwing School.boys into the water ,to make them
swim. Ministers. hid decried him anti' his Friends
as a set of alarmists, and had then delayed the mea.
sures necessary for -the defence of the Country to -
so late a period, that it was to be feared they would
come too late. The object 'of the Motion was
, •
onlyto talatam information as to the. state of IrelaOd.
On the same principle that a Council of War"was
wished , for, so he thought- a' Cormnittee of that
liouie might sit very usefully, in the interval be.
tweet). the prorogation and their next Meeting, for
the,purpose of considering what had been, and. what
was Ow state of Ireland. He was sure that such a
Committee, from the materiali which Might be af.
forded them, might Make a 'Report against the
next Meeting of Parliament, well worthy their at-
tention. He therefore gave his support to the Liao-
lion.
Si;•
,RORERT; ,WILLIAMS, said he was now
well convinced, that when the guards in Dub.
lin were doubled, and the Garrison under arms,
•that the Government were not surprised. He had
, • been seven years in. Ireland and had never during
that time seen the gtiards doubled.
Colonel COLE said, that every Irish Gtntleman
in the :House must feel that the' Irish' -Government
had been :very remiss. , He was sure that no man
Ivished more than. himself to support Government at
the preieot crisis, .but the Government or Ireland.
Ought to have paid more attention to the; informa-
tion they
,received from .the Gentlemen of that
Country,
,As to the preCaution of doubling the
w
guards, it as wholly insufficient, and- he knew-it
to be a faa, that when the Yeomanry came to re.
teive their artns there was no ammunition to'give
them : he thought that a Government who sported
With 'the lives of the loyal inhabitants of the Coun.
try, deserved the censure of that .flou`se; • •
Ti' CIIeIiV,CELL >R of the EXCIIAQPER'said,
Ile :should almost have supposed that the Right Hon.
Gentleman •felt a little sore at the observdtiona
which had lv..en made upon his condust %.vith,tesPed
to the Message relative to Ireland. He might in.
deed suppose that the Right Hon. Gentleman-Was a
little s.q,e tipot that subject, as scarcely a day passed'
that the' Right Hon; Gentleman did not make art
attack Government, and at the•same time tit-
plan) some fornv.,r attack. • :The Right-Han "Gen..
p,.
tlemao -was however aware that no,pradical
purpose
.
[ could ensue' froth agreeirtg to tbe present Motion,
and .had then recommended -a Standing-Committee
!t• • -.2 duriduringa Prorogation, a 'species of Con—unitteewhich
it was well known could not it without
;Parliament, :and for which there was no, precedent
whatcv an Mt of
r, er. Before the Bills were brought for..
• ward relative •ta, Irelaltd, a Statement was made
from His Majesty, which,.-was a complete
1t
31, s fiestlon for the voting of those measures; a
rodamation was laid on the . Table, stating the,
'existence of a Rebellious C against
Conspiracy
:Majesty's Government ; and he asked the House
'ether there was not a sufficient proof of the ex-
.iitenCe of a Traitorous Conspiracy ? The House
' •, were then' called upon to adopt measures for the
-tafety of the loyal inhabitants of Irelana ; the,
ight Hon. Gentleman. who comphtined of being
VA"::v.hatged with attempting to cre4tte delay, then wish-
,td not only to postpone the measure, bat to delay
twenty.four hours even before they addressed His
MA. •
testy in answer to the 'Message. The scruples
urged then by the-Right Hon. Gentleman were ex••
ttemely ilktimed, and likely to be. produffive of the
woritt consequences • dispatch at that period • might
fof fts ety the. Lountry, and delay might be
4estruilion. He,would ask whether the deci-,
*ion
of l)at.tament upon that occasion did not_give

;;;;;; ‘3.,%.
• '7=-7 ;;;; •
• culaily to the inhabitants 'of Dublin. 'h t n vesper``}
to the' Message which had been allu,led, to,, which
was delivered to the. Irish Parliament on the 24. th
of May, 1798, they did not take t'wenty.four hours
to Co9Siddr'cif it; but Voted that it should be forth..
With taken_ into consideration. The .Right Hon.
Gentletriao had said, that the Go:I-meta of Ire-
'arid and of this- Co.untry were taken by surprize.
No opinion '6'o been stated by'HiS.Majesty's
.Government,- that' Ireland .was in •a state of safety,
he only stared that oliere!,was. no necessity to recur
to those measures which had been before adopted.
Ministers were hot so weak as to suppose that the
contagion which bad ihil'aed sd large a mass of the
people of Itelandovirs etrtirely dissipated,- but Ivhen
they, considered how much in the conrse,of the last
two .yearS, , the state of Jreland had' been athelio.
.rated and improved even beyond the most san-
guine expeEtation, and • that the. people .15f that.
Country had had the opportunity of observing
that-in another Country a: military despotism.had;
supplanted all those visionary ideas of liberty athi
'equality which had been cherished by so many in
Ireland.; they were justified io 'imagining that those
persons would. take a lesson from what they had oh.
served, and he. was convinced that many of them
had taken a lesson, and a very useful lesson The
'GoVeromeht of Ireland were not taken by surprize,
•as it had been alledged, and the measure of doubling
the Guards was fully sofficient,as a measure of pre-
caution, The Right Hon. Gentleman had said,
that no other orders were given 'till midnight :
this. ss's not the Eta; whai the orders were, it was
not material to state, but they could have- been
acted upon if the continuance of the losurreetioo
had rendered 'it necessary. Information had cer.
tainly been received .by the Government of Ire-
land, respecting the intended Insurrection, but they
also received intelligence of a different nature, and
lite), were to judge as to what credit or weight was
to be given to the information which came to their
hands. The Right Hon. Gentleman •had alluded to
Col. Despard, and had called it 'an insulated -Conspi-
,l racy; but the Proclamation of the ROsels.in Ireland
'proved that it was not so, as they alluded to an at.
,tempt made in this Capital which had failed. The
Government of ;Ireland would have been charged
with credulity, if they had stated they believed
what the}' knew to be true. , That Government'had
been charged' with dilatoriness, but they were to
considerhow they could best 'catty into tired the
great object of making an example Of Traitors : it
was the,great duty ot Government to confider when
they ought timely to interpose, and when measures
ot vigour and energy ought to be resortedro. If they
had not aeled as they did, the calamity would have
been ten times 'mote dreadful ; they did not •lisre-
gard measures of precaution, for they took all those
that were necessary. Theßight Hon Gentleman
thought it necessary that the details .
respecting
land should be laid before the House ; he did not re
.colled. that that Right Hon. Gentleman fOrmed a part
of H4' MasiestY's- GOvernment or that he brought
forward any details respeding the state of, Ireland
notwithSthndint the 'strong measures then proposed,
and although repeated Motions were made for that
purpose that Right ;Hon.: Gentleman then resistedall
was
of Inquiry, o,,peditig Ireland-but it
was not Merely reSpeding Iretana, but many' other
circumstances relative to: which .the Right Hon.
Gentleman, doting the seven years he held a seat in
His Majesty's Councils,resisted all inquiry whatever;
disastrous expeditions oh which there might
be ou
the :face of them misconduti were equally %Jellied to
be ir.quircd Into. Was not all ,inquiry resisted
with. respect to the expedition to Quiberon, in which
of the. Country were so much interested
athned
is'eotimi!'gs
much hurt I -He did not say by any means,
that the Right Hon. Gentleman improperly resisted
inquiry in these instances, but he only adduced
the coodud Right Hon: of the Gentleman upon those
occasions,. to prove that that Right Hon. Gen*.
man was not exactly the Person who
.ought now'.„ser.
call for inquiry. The Right Hon. Gentleman had
said, that the Irish Government was inert, which'
he denied, and that the Government of this Coon.
try refused, to listen to the coercing voice ot danger,
but measures had been taken fvotn the
.moment
of signing the Treaty of- Amiens :to place
the Country in a. state of security, and since
the ,Message of the Bth of "March measures. had
been, adopted for the Defence of. the Country Which
were ;completely unexampled in the history of the
Country. The Right Eon. Gentlentan-had said he
had only told truth with respect to the danger of the
Country ; but there were different modes of telling
truth, and certaioly.that was not .the best mode of,
telling.. the. truth to magnify the resources
,nf the
Enemyond to depreciate our own. With tespeft
to the Motion itself, it has. been said that this
would probably be the last day of the Session for
bus(n,ss, and yet they were, called upon to ask for
infOrMaiten, front which no possible good could
arise. Not only that, but from the 'oroduetion
which great &tiger must arise, as'it was impossible
to;g•iible it in the :Manner stirred by the Right'HOn.
Gentleman. Ihe Hon. Gentleman (Mr. HuTcrtri4-
d .
SoN) had himself stated the obje of his Motion to
be prospediVe, and it was evident that a ..standing
Committeedikethat alluded to, could not be esiab„
lished w ithoUr art Ati of Parliimeot,irom whenee.
no benefiCial
,iffeda could arise. if the House thought
'the Government of Ireland capable of taking thee,
sures for the safety of that Country,' let that Go,
veitiment .take. these . measures which it thought
most adviseable, and it bhould always be recolleded
that 'iii cases of Conspiracy-measures of haste were
1 not adVisable, as they prevented. the guilty from
being brought to that puitishinent which they tie.
served. Being convinced that the House were
satisfied, that the present Motion ought not 'to be
carried 'into circa, he should give. it his decided
negative. s .
.
Mr. WINDUAM explained several points his
speech, in which he conceived that he had been
..misunderstood h the CUAtiC F I.LOR oldie XC
ER ; he partichlarly alluded to, the Expetiition to
Quiberon; and said, that*, far; from deprecating
any inquiry upon that subkd, it .was one tilioa!
which :belied always called upon Gentlemen, and
dared them ,to enter into the inquiry.
The CHANCELLOR of
,the EXC.:IIEQ(2
begged leave to state one lad which he. had
nrltit
ted in his former speech ; it had been stated that

aN4•ll4.Uay

V 3•{~N !• •• a•• • v 7 r .~•w• •~~v ~ii~V

Conmthtcial.Agents, 11ad been grrested Irebind;
this w is not lite ease; because tlmernment had 'pre.
vente,l thost persons from going la, the place of
their destination; •

Lora L'Aoi-Lv FACII explained,

said'he did not host, of this
Motion before he came into the House, lint having
heard. it, he was--determined to_give it his support.,
He, by no means stgreed with the Noble Secretary
of State that, this Motion was objeBitsnable becaitae
it could have no pradieal and immediate effeCl,it ap.
geared to him that such a MotiOn as the present was
perfealy er ; and he also contended, that the
Hon. Gentleman who brought it forward was per_-
feOly justified4n his, opening speech in going into
thoic general observations for which he had been
so much censured: ..The.Hon.Gentletnan then pro-
ceeded to enter at considerable length into -a de-
fence of his Right -Hon. Friend (Mr. WINDHAM)
rartklliallY for his conduit an the day when the
Message was delivered respeding Ireland. .He
then adverted to the assertion of Mr. WINDHAM,
that the Government of Ireland had suffered itself
to ne 'surprised this he contended was stridly
true„ and-, they were the more culpable because-
they had.not only received information froiii dif.
ferent quarters, but they had the evidence of fatis
to warn them of their approaching danger. He,
however, did not °Neel to the measures which had
been adopted with regard to Ireland, he, only COM-
plairied that they had been adopted without sufficient
information having been laid before Parliament. He
repeated the charges which he had before advanced
against His Majesty's'Ministers of procrastination in
their Measures for Public Security, and he instanced a
Circular Letter which was sent lalt week from the
Admit:thy to the Captains of the Sea Fencibles on
the Coast, desiring theffi to transmit to the Ad-
miralty an accnunt of the Soundings and Bearings of
the Coast -within their Command : this was certain-,
ly very proper, but was information,of which the
Admiralty ought -to have been in poasessian
tong ago. He denied that he, or his Right Hen.
Friend, had ever endeavoured to depress the spirit
of the People ;. they had not indeed flattered..them,
but they had told' them their real situation.—
They hid never daubted the energy of the Peo.
ple, they had complained that the Ministers
had not taken nseasures to make them acquainted
with the danger with which they were threaten..
ed. ' The Hanourable Gentleman then made a
variety of comments Open 'the conduet of His 'Ma-
. jesty's Ministers, which lie censured_ very strimgly,
particularly,
.with reference to the conclusion of the
Treaty of Amiens, and u the NegOtiation which
tertninated in the rupture 'of -that Treaty.. He and
,hisTion. Friend had not taken theirsual and 'popular
ground of attack against 'Ministers, viz. that they
were extending the Prerogative of the Crown ; they
only complained of then for not having displayed'
sufficent energy. With regard to the Motion before
the House—if the 'infOrmation called for in this
Motion could be granted with safety, lie sincerely.
hoped it would not be refused. •
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, it certain.
ly was not his. intention to follow the Learned Gen-
tleman through the whole of his mull ilaripos speech,
because it seethed as if it had been the intention of
the Learned Gentle Man in his speech, at 'the con.
, elution of, the Session' sto sum up the whole of the
Debates which had occurred during the Sessions
There were a variety of subjeals upon Which the
Hoff:Gentleman had commented, which appeared to
him 50i have not 'even, the-most—remote connexioh
with the Question before the House, and upon these
points he was not tempted to follow him. Nothing
certainly could be snore true than that %viten a Re.
hellion was suppressed, it. was, 'desirable that. -the
, • Laws should revert as soon as 'possible tortheir an.
rient
,channel.;• this prirciple was felt strongly
by His Majesty's Ministers, illat they wished even
in time of Rebellion to keep the Laws in their usual
channel, except only in cases of ;lanai 'Rebellion,
1 and consequently in.the Martial Law Bill which had
been passed, there was no stoppage ut the regular
course of Justice, except in those particular ca-a.!!;.
A considerable part of this -discussion had. Rimed
upon the manner- in which 'the late measures with
regard to Ireland had:•been ivssed, and tie Right
Honourable GentleMaff scented to soppAt 110. Mo.
tiOn with a view' to enable 'Ministers W. justify
themselves-, for their 6ndata upon- that occ,ofion
Ile was not of opinion that the Coodua of Ministers;
or of Parliament, upon that occasion, ictinired any
justification. With regard io the Motion 'before
the House; the only ptatiieable mears of cairying
it into effea would he to address the King nut ta,
prorogue, Pat:iament, a..measure which he did not
suppose any Gentleman would recommend at a lie.
60.1 :like the present, when the presence of Gentle-
men was so'- necessary in the Country. But it had
beer,.: said that a Committee, might be appointed to
sit dining tbe.Prorogation, for the purpose of exa.
mining into 'the state. of Itel,trel.. He wished to
.know whether thesilight Hon. Geotleman meant
that an Ati of Parliarneptsshould he na,ssed to appoint;
such a Committee? LMr. WINDUA N 1 said he had
not stated how it was to be apr,intcd, he had only
reempmended that it should be Lione.] The only
way,in: which he was aware that
.such a Copmiiiee
could he instituted teas, by an Aa of Parliament,
and he would venture to say, that there was
not a precedent for such meaiure on the livr.
nab, of qie 148,use. There were besides great eon.
stitutional difficulties in the -way of such a mea•
sure, because a ComMittee so eonsti t toed: would he
intl •prtrid,-nt of the po,ser of the use, and cf the
Prerogative of the- Crown. The Hun. Gentleman'
haw iecemmerided: this, -in order 'to she w the people
of Ireland the vigilance with which thfir :664
were attcnded.tii. .131 t. it ot.tld sheW a .straogr
kind of vigilance to agree to a inens:ure of this kind
On; the last day of a Se,sion, v.lte'n it, could not he
attended ;with '-any ptinliical good' rfTe t ; -bur. he
admitted it Was..noL, only the I eti,:d of the Session
which induced him to oppose the IVILn becatisi
'tie should equallyJippose,it if brought forward on
the first -day of the,SEssiion.- Intistal he "did not,
.
shit k
th-,:t Secret Committees ought (.1 lie .;11,+.),:int.ed
on'ess when applied for by. Government, N:›thing
C,)nl,lbe. more obl7i,:,us, than that in the c;the ,01
treasonable Conspiracierk theExectitiVe G;,)vcrnment
ought toile left tri itself, hccause the eae:oast pos.
sin:a. „kaki 0g11; arste fivin the insri; wino of

r

vent the ptiniShment of the 'guilty, and to cu up
ihe soirrees of futore information: He was far
limn attributing -any such motive Hto the on.
Gentlenian who brotight forward they Motion, bet
certainly its 'adoption alight have that eta. 'That_
Honourable Gentlemak had talked much of con.
ciliating the people of Ireland, but it should be
recolletted, that in attempting to conciliate part of
t! inhabitants ef that Country,. they might run
the risk of ahenatiog others. There was
in that Country some as loyalty aff
and -tried BUbjeCtS as any in ,His Majesty's
titans ; and it was necessary to `take care, that in.
endeavouring to conciliate those whose affedions
we had nor, we did not Alienate those whose 4f
ledion we had; whose loyalty was fried, trd whose
energa, and bravery- had, in a m, at critical :no.
merit, saved that Country. He could if it were•
necessary enlarge very much, upon this subjed,
which however he should not do'e he only tlnaight
it right ,to throw out this consideration to those
who were constantly, talking of conciliation. Con.
v'inced therefore 'as he lust's that this mutton could'
have no practical good cif et if adopted at this mo..
ment, convinced that it was a 'motion which ought
not at any time to he agreed`to, he Should give
it Ids decided opposition.
Lord TEMPLE observed, that words had been
attributed by other 'Hon. Gentlemen to his Right
Hon. Friend, which he had never eXpressed : he
talked much of pre'cedents, without recolletting ti at
his Right Hon. Friend threw out the into of ap.
pointinga Conimi:tee In the way of suggestiart, and
not advanced in argument; and Pie lamented that
the Learned Gentleman should exhaust so much
time in endeavouring,to refute a hat was never se-
riously Meant to be !imposed. He deprecated the
idea of our alienating the aff ftions of tt ose who at
present were Fat ourab'y inclined to in the at.,
tempt to co: ciliate those who -may feel differ, nt y .
The Rebellion was by no means a Catholic one ;'
the•Cottagerstand others, of.both, religions, ware
coil illy insacure Item its' ravages; they were
toptidy the vidims: 'it could 'not therefore be
justly :ailed a Catholic Rebellion', He 'should
support the motion, because he thought it tin.
portant ,to know whether Goveinment was in
possession of information sufficient to enable thein
to ad decisively sooner than they had die r.
verting to the occurrences which took place. in
'I-Mho, he observed, if G eminent had previous
information,' or were aware of what was g ,ing fitr.
ward, they 'ought to be brought to a severe account
for it; they in such a case speedily coole for_
ward with vigour and decision, the life of Ltd
Kilwarden and many others' might have beensaeed,.
He censured the precautions taken by the Govern-
ment of Ireland fir the security of the Capital as
inadequate and, iti,ecure, Having served on gar.
rison duty in that City, he bad an oy, poortunitof
understanding that part of the subjed. The Mo-
tion was one which he
thought
ought to be adopted
as a means of learning'. whether Government hail
those means of information• whit h those who aired
with
shim contended they had, and 'on• account of
which they 'should haVe acted very differently.
Lord.. CAsTL RE EACH 3puke in explanation. of
some points whichiell, from him, and adverted to
the equal; reapoosibility, its a general sense, of all
the Members of His Majesty's-Goternment.
Lord 'I'EMPLB saida few words in explanation
as did • .
• The, ATTORNEV.GENREAL,WhO rindicated
self from the charge of having aspersed the Roman
`Catholics of Ireland, a great number of %Omit hr
believed in his conscience, to be as faithful aiA
loyal Subjeib as :ittly in that part of 'the *United_
Kingdom. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQU ER explain.
ed, that-the reason °C hit going into a statement of
many of the leading ineasares of His Majesty's Got
vernenent was, the assertion Made by an Hon. Gen.
tleman, athat. a kindred system of remissness and
delay existed on the part of:both Governments.
~
With a viewa. therefore, to 'obviate any Unfavoura—
ble impressions that. such assertions may give rise
to, he had entered into soda detail.
CoI.GRAUFORD 'thought :the language held
by some Gentlemen in Ole House, that night, would
almost:induce hitu, forahe Sake of Ireland, to regree
that the Union had taken place, He was astoooha
ed, that' at. a time when a Rebellion had recently
broken taut,'when many people in Ireland imagined
a degree of remissness on the part of Government
existed, and when the 'capital was nearly serpriied;
when under anch circumstances a motion like the
present was made in the United Pirliament ; they
should be told: that no useful purpose could be
answered; by ,it, and chat the United
anent could, do nothing in it. -• Very different,
he believed, would be the condo& of an Irish,
Parliament in such circumstances. He thought
the sobjeft should be.' inquired into. Witco
he heard of a Want of 'precedent objeded to the ap.
pointment of a Committee, 'he ,would ask, where..
was a precedent to be fitund for the present sit teirion
of the Empire ? Adverting 'the conlual A the
Irish Governtnent, he oberved, that the discovery
of the secret Powder-mill, and the carrying about; of
`Ammunition in the night, were two strong facts to
induce a supposition that a serious attack was
tended: The 'measure' of doubling the guards Was
a paltry and ittadequate precaution : he &mold like
to hear the.alledged part explained, that asilett rite
Yeomanry of Dublin, with that zeal and prompii.
!tide which always animated them, applied for am.
munition, they were told 'they could not get ira
'ro answer this charge would not reqttire much
time. He thought great pradieal.advantages would
arias from acceding. to the MotiOn—one of which
Was; it' would tend to strengthen The confidence of
the loyal and well affeded people of Ireland
the Goveinment. The discasofilure of the Re.
bels in their first artemat, was chiefly owing
to 'the fortunate circumstance' some of ratan
getting drunk, :and comtnencing their Operations..
too Soon. - It should he known what state of pre.
partition the Garrison was in at 'the time: the
inquiry would go -to exculpate the iridi Go.
vet nment ; were it, as was then contended, irre.
proachable, and which would be another advantage
for his Party the cotultid of those who opposed the
Motion, had rather given him Unfavourable impres.
Wished to say a few words respeding the