The Sun.
London, England, 1867-05-24 00:00:00

the Irish in America, but believed it to have arisen from
their ignorance of the actual state of affairs, and was not
surprised that they had believed the representations of
those who, knowing better, have told them false stories
of Ireland's oppression. Upon those who, in total disre-
gard of truth, make a trade of pouring this poison into
the ears of the poor Irish people, and not upon the latter,
should lie the blame for the unfortunate results which had
been brought out. (Cheers.) Threats of a war with
America are not exactly the kind of appeal or argument
likely to affect the sense of this nation. (Cheers.) The
great desire of the House of Commons and the country is
to do justice to Ireland ; but they will not be urged to
greater iuterest in the subject by such threats. (Cheers.)
There is sufficient knowledge of the real state of things
in Ireland amongst the Irish people in America; and they
know suffinently thst their interest is opposed to such a
war to prevent it. (Hear, hear.) If the powers of the
Government be continued, they will be exercised, as they
have been for the last nine mouths, with care and modera-
tion, but with firmness. (Cheers.) He believed these
powers can be so exercised as that there shall be no inter-
ference with the liberties or the freedom of action of loyal
subjects of the Queen in Ireland. (Cheers.)

Mr. B. OSBORNE said ho was far from gainsaying the
fact that the further suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act
is not only necessary but merciful to the Irish people.
(Hear, hear.) To say it will be necessary for only a limited
period is to deceive the house. But, in acknowledging the
difficulty which has arisen from the ignorance and careless-
ness of this Legislature—(hear, hear)—he did not avoid
consideration of measures which will eventually make the
suspension unnecessary. He did not accuse the noble lord,
knowing his sagacity and humanity, of having tampered
with this conspiracy. (Hear.) He did not accuse him, or
the noble lord at the head of the Irish Government, of any
abuse of this power. On the contrary, they had exercised
it with great judgment and humanity. (Hear.) But the
passage in the Queen's Speech in February was an instance
of great irresolution and weakness—a sop thrown to the
Cerberus of popularity. (Hear, hear.) The Government,
being in possession of such information as the recent evi-
dence shows they had at the time, ought not to have
made that statement to the house. (Cheers.) It is still
true that Ireland is in possession of the weakest Executive
in the world. The Government acted wrongly and weakly,
and in opposition to the unanimous opinion of the police
the magistrate; and the country gentlemen. Wishing to
conciliate Galway they exposed all Ireland to insurrection.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Galway said Irishmen
always betray their friends. Has he never known English-
men to betray, or at least forsake, their friends oven in this
house ? (Laughter.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—When they are wrong.
Mr. OSBORNE said the hon. member said, since 1852,
that Ireland was "occupied, not governed." Yet how he
defends the Church. (Laughter.) Roebuck on the Church !
(Laughter.) He never thought the Church was in danger
till he heard the hon. member's eulogium upon it. (Laugh-
ter.) There is a hardihood of assertion as well as of contra-
diction. New lights are breaking upon the hon. gentle-
man ; he has turned his back on every principle of his
youth, and, like the actor who loses the applause of the
upper gallery, he now plays to the pit of the Treasury
bench. (Loud laughter.) The hon. gentleman's opinion
may be mistaken in Ireland for that of the House of Com-
mons; but the Irish know some little of him, and that little
is in connection with the Gal way contract. (Laughter.)
The houseis always discussing this question in the same
way. We always know what will be the policy of the Chief
Secretary for Ireland, whatever his party may be. It
matters to nobody but the lawyers what Government comes
in. (Laughter.) The leading lawyer will defend the Church,
and be made Chief Justice ; but nothing will be done for
Ireland. (Laughter.) The policy is always that of the
pigeon-hole. There are three measures the Chief Secretary
will feel bound to introduce : first, a bill for the preserva-
tion of salmon in the rivers. Salmon is the only thing
flourishing in Ireland. (Loud laughter.) There have been
four such bills passed. Then, with a great flourish of
trumpets, a landlords' and tenants' bill—there have been
31 of them. (Laughter.) Then a Peace Preservation
Act, of which there have been 26. (Laughter.) And
when you want a great experiment, the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act is proposed. That has been done ten
times since 1801; and yet the Chief Secretary says in
1867 the further suspension is only for a limited period.
He would not say that the Government of England did
not intend to act fairly towards Ireland, but what he com-
plained of was that some were grossly ignorant and some
grossly bigoted in our legislation towards that country.
(Hear, hear.) He was not one of those who put an exag-
gerated importance on the maintenance of the Established
Church in Ireland, but he did hold that it was the duty of
Parliament so to deal with it as to make it in some way
more consonant with, and more agreeable to, the feelings
of the Roman Catholic people of Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
Had the House ever made the attempt ? On the contrary,
they were supposed to have made enormous progress in
Irish legislation, because the hon. baronet opposite (Sir F.
Heygate) moved the previous question, and thus, to use a
Irish " bull," advanced Irish legislation by postponing it
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Parliament had made great
concessions to the people of this country, and wo might
believe him, an Englishman who understood _Leland, that
we shall be making an enormous mistake it we do not take
up the Irish question in a larger, broader, and more liberal
spirit than we have yet done. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. FORT ESC UE admitted that the exception—al
powers chimed by the Government were necessary for the
peace of Ireland ; but he held that it was impossible to
acquit them of blame in declaring at the time they were
in full possession of the secrets of Fenianism that the
continuance of the Act would be unnecessary. (Hear,
hear.) He should not object to the renewal of the Act,
but ho was convinced that we shall cut a poor figure in
the eyes of the world and lay up great calamities for our-
selves if we pass nothing but measures of repression for
Ireland. He was convinced that our first duty is to con-
sider by what moans, within the power of Parlian.ent, we
can dry up the sources of sedition in Ireland, and by
effacing from the minds of the people of that country
the memories of tho past, reconcile them to the law s
and GovernMent of England. (Hear, hear.)
which he admitted they
byhi extending the dura-
tion Mr. C. FORTESCUE frankly declared that, in his
opinion, it was the plinfpl but imperative duty of the
house to support the
o:
Ipowers,
had not abused, and the continuance of which was neces-
saryonof these suo
exceptional
ootp ht
for the preservation of the peace in Ireland.
Mr. NEWDEGATE, replying to the observation of Mr.
Bright, remarked that the hon. gentleman was certainly a
dissenter from tho English Dissenters on the question of
the Irish Church. For the DisSenters of England were
fast coming to the conclusion that these continual at-
tacks on the Irish Establishment as a cause of discon-
tent only tended to promote the designs of the Burnish
hierarchy.
From this point the debate took a very discursive turn,
and the speeches delivered assumed more of the character
of a series of addresses to constituents in view of spending
election, the question immediately before the house being
all but totally ignored or lost sight of. Sir P. O'Brien, who
took credit to himself for the moderation of his views and
feeling, taunted Mr. Roebuck with his advocacy of the
Canadian rebels in 1837, Mr. Whalley trotted out with
his old well-worn crotchet that the discontent pro Nailing
in Ireland was to be traced to the "teachings, the doc-
trines, and the discipline" of the Roman Catholic Church.
I According to Mr. Brady, the only effect of the Emancipa-
tion Act had been to introduce Some 30 Roman Catholic
• gentlemen to seats in the House of Commons, and since
1829 there had not been a single ameliorative measure
• passed for Ireland. And Sir G. Bowyer capped the climax
of Hibernian grievances by declaring that there was no
country in Europe so oppressed, with the exception of Po-
land and Italy. Mr. Stock made the pardonable and amus-
ing error of supposing the house was occupied with the
discussion,of the Irish Land Bill of the Government, and
his criticisms addressed to that measure excited much
merriment accordingly. The other speakers were Mt.
• Synan, Mr. Conolly, and Mr. Pim; but throughout the
whole debate there was not a single attempt made to show
that the bill was not required by the peculiar situation of
affairs in Ireland.
Tho second reading was then agreed to, and the re-
maining stages ordered to be taken this day.
The house having gone into committee on the Reform
Bill resumed the consideration of the 4th (the county
franchise) clause.
Mr. VIVIAN moved an amendment extending the suf-
frage to lessees or assignees of Lends or tenements, of free-
hold or other ten uro, for the unexpected residue of any
term originally created for net less than 60 years, whether
or not on life of lives, or the clear yearly value of L 5 over
and above the rents and charges payable in respect thereof.
A brief discussion ensued, and with the assent of the
Government the amendment was agreed to.
Sir E. C OLEBROOKE then moved to omit the words
" premises of any tenure," and substitute for them a
" dwelling-house."'
The amendineet•Was opposed by Ministers, end led to a
division, which resulted in the words " premises of any
tenure" being struck out of the clause by 196 to 193, being
a majority of 3 against the Government. Tho announce-
ment of the numbers was hailed with great laughter.
On the question that the words a dwelling-houss"
should be inserted, another division was taken, when the
motion was negatived by 212 to 209, which gave the GJ-
verument in its turn a majority of three! The house now
became very excited, in the midst of which
Lord CRANBOItNE recommended that, as the clause
was in such a hopeless condition, progress had better be
reported, 'and the suggestion was received with cheers
from the Opposition.
Mr. Secretary HARDY, however, moved to till up the
blank which tiow stood in the clause with ;the words,
"lands or tenements," whereupon
Mr. AYRTON proposed to omit the words, "or tene-
ments," and insert, " with a tenement erected thereon."
Sir G. GREY hoped the house would accept the advice
of Lord Cranborne. This called upj
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who pro-
tested against reporting progress at so early an hour (11
o'clock) and called upon hon. members on both sides -of
the house to support him in going on with the bill.
After some discussion, which was carried on amid much

confusion, Mr. Ayrton moved that progress should be re-
ported.
At length the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rose, and, pointing to the clock, said that as it was not very
probable they would be able to bring the discussion to a
close at a reasonable hour he would assent to the chairman
leaving the chair.
Mr. BRIGHT, on behalf of the Opposition, abjured all
party motives in the course they were pursuing. Their
object was simply to lake security against the creation of
faggot votes ; and as the committee had now divided twice,
with majorities of three on one side and three on the other,
he thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to whose con-
ciliatory disposition he paid a compliment, should, before
the house met again, consider the matter, with the view of
seeing whether he could not reconcile the conflicting
opinions on the subject.
The house then resumed, and thn chairman reported
progress.

The Public Records (Ireland) Bill was read a second
time. The Army Enlistment Bill was read. a third time
and passed; and the Local Government Supplemental (No.
2) Bill was read a second time.
The house rose at 1 o'clock.

7HE CASE OF TRAFFIC IN FORGED
BILLS OF EXCHANGE.

Yesterday, at the Mansion-house, Adolphe Gold-
stein, of Tredegar-road, Bow, commission agent,
who stands charged with forging and uttering two
bills of exchange with intent to defraud, was brought
up on remand before the Lord Mayor, for further
examination.

Mr. Muliens, solicitor to the. London Bankers'
Association, appeared to prosecute, and Mr. Mon-
tagu Williams, instructed by Messrs. Lewis, of
Ely-place, again attended on the part of the pri-
soner.

It will be remembered that at the former exami-
nation the evidence disclosed that Messrs. J. E.
Woods and Co., of Shepton-Mallet, had had busi-
ness transactions with a Mr. Du Portu, a merchant,
carrying on business in Union-court, Old Broad-
street, whose acceptance for £5OO due on the 21st
of February last, became due. The testimony of
Mr. Woods went to show that Da Portu required
assistance to meet this acceptance on its arriving
at maturity, and with this view Woods was in-
troduced to a Mr. James Adolphus Simpson, who
described himself as a merchant residing at 32,

Hunter-street. Brunswick-square, and who under-
took to procure bills to the amount of about £5OO.
On a subsequent day the parties met again at
Du Portu's office, namely, on the 17th February,
when Simpson handed to Mr. Woods five bills of
exchange, including the two which were alleged to
be forgeries. Both these bills purported to be drawn
by Messrs. Lescbkau, Son, and Co., of Paris, one
on William Parker and Co., of 80, Lower Thames-
street, for £7B 165., and the other on Messrs. Henry
Ruedel and Co., of 150, Leadenhall-street, for £75.
For the fire bills Mr. Woods paid Simpson £25 for
his commission, of which Simpson alleged that he
paid £9 to the prisoner, who had procured and from
whom he received the bills in question. It was also
proved that the acceptances of both the bills, as well
as the signatures of the drawers,were forgeries. The
first witness called yesterday was

Mr. John Baptiste James Da Portu, who was
examined by Mr. Mullens, and deposed that he was
a merchant, having offices in Union-court, Old
Broad-street, and was aware that the two bills pro-
duced, together with three others, had been given
by Mr. Simpson to Mr. Woods, in witness's office,
and in his presence. The prisoner, whom he knew
by sight, was not present at the time. Witness
was not aware that the bills were given to enable
Woods to take up an acceptance for £5OO.
Cross-examined by Mr. M. Williams—The bills
were given to Mr. Woods for his accommodation,
and were to be discounted by Woods' own bankers.
Though Woods did not say so, I, being an agent,
knew his wants, and that he had facilities of dis-
counting at his bankers. I say distinctly that the
bills were simply and purely given to Woods for
his accommodation.
By the Lord Mayor—l knew that there was a bill
for £5OO coming due on the 21st February, and
that bill was drawn by J. E. Woods and Co., red
accepted by Vincent Du Porta, my father. It was
given for an advance tnade on goods for Wood's'
accommodation, and Woods gave an undertaking
in writing to provide for it three days before it:
became due. 'These bills were procured, not to sup-
ply funds for the £5OO acceptance, but as a further
accommod ition to Woods, who found the money to
pay as commission to Simpson for procuring the
bills. I cannot speak to the whole of the arrange-
ments, for Simpson and Woods were frequently
alone together in a private room, while I was en-
gaged on other business in another part of the office.
I have known the prisoner by sight many years, but
never knew his name until the other day. He has
been two or three times at my father's place, where
I have au office. He came there to propose business
in buying goods, but more generally he came to sell
goods. I had never any conversation with the pri-
sonor about the bills, nor did I know until now he
was the man who-had given them to Simpson. The
commission was £25 paid to Simpson by Woods, and
not by my father, Mr. Vincent Du Portu. •
By Mr. Mullens—Simpson was to give me part of
the commission he received from Woods, as it was
arranged I was to have a share in the profits or com -
'mission made on business done by Simpson with any
of our friends. If I was not paid I was to charge it
in an account current I had with Simpson:
By the Lord Mayor --Of the £25 commission paid
to Simpson on this transaction, about £6 was to
come to me. I knew that was the sum coming to we
because Simpson told me so, and I charged it., Simp-
son said he had paid the prisoner £9 for getting the
bills, and deducting that I was to have a share of the
remainder of the £25 received from Woods.
Mr. Robt. H. Morris was next called, and proved
that he was clerk to the firm' of Robarts and. Co.,
the bankers, who were the London agents of'Messrs.
Stuckey, the bankers,, who had a branch bank at
Shepton Mallet. The two bills produced had been
sent on 11th February last to- Messrs. Robarts by
Messrs. Stuckey and Co. for collection. They were
presented, and marked by the alleged acceptors as
being forgeries.
Police-constable Edward Cable, 210 K, was next
examined, and proved that on Friday evening last
Mr. Simpson came to him in the Tredegar-road,
Bow, and at his request he went with him to a
house, No. 1, Vernon-road, and there inquired for
the prisoner, who was called down stairs by his wife.
When the prisoner appeared Mr. Simpson said he
would give him into custody for forging two bills of
exchange—one for £7B 165., and the other for £75.
The prisoner said, " I have committed no forgery."
Witness took the prisoner to the police station at
Bow, where the prisoner said that Simpson bad
given him into custody in order to save himself.
Witness then brought the prisoner to the Bow-lane
station, and Simpson came with them. The charge
was made by Simpson, and taken down by the in-
spector, who asked Simpson why there had not been
a warrant issued in the case. Simpson replied that
Mr. Mullens had told him it was too late that day
to obtain a warrant.
Mr. Mu:lens begged to say that he had not had
any conversation with Mr. Simpson on the subject
of a warrant, and therefore his statement in that
respect was incorrect.
In reply to Mr. Montagu Williams, the witness
Cable stated at the Bow-lane station the prisoner
told Simpson that he had got the bills from a man
named Stoven.
Mr. Mullens informed the Lord Mayor that this
was the case for the prosecution, and asked that
the prisoners should be committed for trial on this

charge.
Mr. Montagu Williams sad that happily he knew
very little of bills of exchange, but certainly the
evidence in this case opened his eyes to a system that
appeared to him to be perfectly miraculous. He
submitted, however, that on this evidence no jury
would convict the man now at the bar, who stated
he had received the bills from Stoven, who had been
seen that morning, and had promised to attend at
this hearing.,. ; -
The prisoner (interposing) said that he saw
Stoven in the court when the proceedings just com-
menced.
Mr. M. Williams—Surely Stoven ought to be
found by the prosecution. It was clear that he
would not come here now on his own accord.
Mr. Mullens said he was quite willing to take any
steps to secure the attendance o Stovall, but he