The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PAITLTATiENT

HOUSE OF LORDS.—•,(YESTEILDAY.)
THE OATHS BILL. • -
The Earl of DERBY said,—Before 'my noble
iwd
learned friend (Lord Lyndhurst) rises to move the second
reading of the bill of which he has given notice, perbsOn
your lordships will alio sr roe, though not strictly in
order, to say a few words upon the position in which
the house stands with regard to the three bills which are
tonight to be considered. But before Ido Bo I feel it
my duty in a single sentence to express to your lord-
ships, and more especially to noble lords opposite, toy
grateful thanks for the forbearance and courtesy with
which they have submitted to my very involuntary ab-
sence, in consequence of an illness, from which I am
now only imperfectly recovered. (Hear, hear.) I must
also express my hope that no material public inconven-
ience has arisen or will arise from the postponement
until I should be able to attend of some discussions from
which I should be very sorry to be absent. (Hear, bear.)
With respect to the question which is about to be brought
under your lordships' notice, a bill passed through the
House of Commons, and was submitted to your lord-
ships, for the alteraeion of certain oaths now required to
be taken by meinbereof truth Houses of Parliament, and
a clause was introduced in that bill, as it came up to
your lordships, which dispensed with certain words of
one of the oaths. Those clataes were struck out by your
lordships, and the tell so amended was sent down to the
other house. Toe House of Commons returned the bill,
objecting to your lordships' amendments, and stating
their reasons. Upon the second &sett sem of this bill
is your lordships' house my noble and gallant friend very
unexpectedly gave notice, on the day before the Whit-
suatide holy lays, of his intention to move an amend-
metit, without stating the na, ore or character of that
amendment. On the first day at er the holydays my
noble and gallant friend (the Earl of Lucan) moved
a resolution substantially to this effect,—that the
other house should have the power, by Act of Par-
liament, to (Aspens°, by a resolution cf the house,
with the words " on the true teeth of a Christian,"
_ in
the case of members of the Jewish persuasion:• That
amendment took me and most of -your lordships by
surprise. My noble and gallant friend having only
given notice of his intention ou the day before the
recess, and having brought forward his resolution on the
first day after the hoLyclays, it was itnpoesible for any
private communication to take place between members
either on one side or ttse other, and we came to the
discussion of an important amendment without the pos-
sibility of pre ious consultation or deliberation. Under
these circumstances I took upon manelf to suggest to
your lordships that the question brought forward ey my
noble and gallant friend was one of too much importance
to be decided on in an accidental discussion of an
ieeendurent iu the last etags of a bid. I euggeeted to
‘yoir Lordships that, it my noble and gallaut friend in-
tended to propose his amendment, it would be better
done by a separate bill than by a lucre amendment.
confess that in my opinion it would have been more
satisfactory to your lordships and to the country if my
noble and gallant friend bad been satisfied with the ex-
preAsion of his own opinion—with throwing a ut a sug-
.geetion that such a modification !alai' required, and had
'then left the other Heinee of- Perliaineet to eerie back
the bill with the amend Dente so introduced, to alititt
ye ur lor ?ship; migileatier; have.giviiri your as.ient. But
the course which has been pursued Is that two bills have
beer at roni,ht in—one by my noble and gallant friend
(the •E ri cf Lucati) and another by may noble and
learetcl friend (Lord Lyudhurst), than whoa) no one is
more entitled t Oe heard on a subject to which he has
devoted so much time and attention. (Cheers.) Upon
looking at the two bills there does nut appear to be
much difference in their provitsioree but in the framing of
his bill my noble and learned friend yermits what may
be coneidered an irregularity in the course e f Pails t-
mentary proceding, because a bill bits passed through
all its stages her', arid roust eecesoiaily be communi-
cated Le the !Luse of CALI:110W, with the final decision
of your lordships upon it. The bill of my noble
aed learned friend, Lowever, takes steps to re-enact
all the clauses tnat f ave been already pa. sad is
the bill that has been before bete Howie. of
Perliareent. The toll i f try nimble and gallant friend,
on tee Co arary, tikes a uttlereet comet, and deals
only ;vita tire viugte question of ena Bugg the House
at Commons to deal by way of resolution with the
question, and t dispense with some Wuede in this par-
ttcu'ar oath. I chutes that lam dispored to view with
every favour the euggestein of my noble and gallant
friend to wend down such an ensuring power to the
House of Oentenone, and I think suca a course prefer-
able tie that puremal by my noble and gallant frieud. I
think it would be far better to send down the first bill as
it stand', and then to seed down the bill of my treble
and gallant friend, dealing with the cage of the Jews as
a separate measure. I confess, my lorda that I have
cot altered my views is regard to the policy or inexpe-
diency of admitting the Je.ss as members of a Christian
.Legisfatere, hut, having carefully and anxiously consi-
dered the subject, I see that the proposal of my noble
and gallant friend is the only possible solution of the
difficulty whic'e bas existed for a period of ten year-. I
see no other practical chance of bringing the to o Houses
of Parliament into agrerrnent. Tae measure proposed
by my noble and gallant friend is one that ceitaiuly
maintaine the principle adopted by your lordship in
dealing with this teetteure. It maintains the dignity of
your lordships hinge with regard to that portion of the
question which is inure immediately subject to your.
juriAlic•ion. It rasintaies the ist.v as it stands. at the
present moment, but it enables the House of Commons,
upon a question that ape cially relates to persons taking
their seats in that house, to dispea,e with the words
which stand in the way of what appeals to he the decided
wish of that house. This solution appears to cue to
afraid a practical and not unrea.onable mode of settling
a (laced; and complicated question. And however
much I regret the determination taken by the Hones of
Common,, and the impassibility of maintaining invio-
late the principle for which your lordships' house has
ever centendee, I confess I think there is less difficulty
and less practical inconvenience and danger arising
horn giving a limited eonsent to the views of the
House of Cotemous, as embodied in the proposition
of my neble and gallant friend, than in persisting in
an opposition which all practical experience proves
cannot be pushed beyond a certain limit between
the two hoteree. While, therefore, on. the one
baud, I object to the bill of soy noble and learned
friend, arid while I cannot say that tae bill of my noble
and gallant friend is not susceptible of and may not,
indeed require same amendment, I shall be eatified, if it'
come to a question of diaiding upon the cecoud reading,
to give my support to the bill of my noble and gallant
friend. My lords, it is with the greatest regret I feel-
that I may differ upon this question from many of those
with whom I have agreed for many years. If upon
this occasion these Mho have honoured me with their
confidence find it impossible to adopt the course which
I have recommended, I will only say for my own part
that, c'ainaing from them that justice which I am ready
to give in return, I t a'rre the course which I have adopted
from no otaer feeling than a desire to see an amicable
settlement between the two houses with regard to a
question of grave interes', and with respect to which I
see ea other solution. (Cheery.)
.Lerd LYNDHURST—The ccuree recommended by
my nob e trtend has taken me by surplice. Before I
give an , .1-• wee to the coneiteretione which he has eug- e
geieed it is uecessaey to make some explanation. Wheu
this eubjset was last before your lordship I listened
with great attention and satisfitetion to the speech of my
noble friend, who with that readiness of illustration and
clearness of etatement tiyahich hu is characterised,
shaped nut the c..urso which he said must be pursued iu
order to put an end to the difference between the houses
of Pariament. I c msidere 1 most carefully the sugges-
tion made by my noble friend, and I took it as the foun-
dation of the bill I have brought in. If your lordships
will hark to the clauses you will find that they cores-
spendwith the suggestions of my noble friend. By the
till I have brought in, if a member of either house come
to the te.ble to be sworn, and says that he cannot con- '
scieptiously make' the declaration on the true faith of
Ch istian, those words are to be struck out of the oath, •
rind the taking of the oa'll with that omission will - •
be a sufficient -taking of the oath. That, my lords,
is the wain c'auae of the bill that I have brought
in. My noble friend, it is true, did not pledge himself
to support a bill 50 drawn, but he expressed him
-
s if stn otigly is favour of such a measure. I will read to
your lordships a report of what fell from my noble friend,
which accords exactly with my own recollections of what •
took place. Woe' lam now stating is said in my own
jeetification, in presenting the bill in the form in which
it now appear,. Ido not read this in any controversial
spirit, but in explanation. My noble friend, speaking
of the areendarect of my noble and gallant friend, ex-
pressed himself. in these terms
" I could better understand it (the amendment) had he
introduced into the latter portiOn of the clause the same
provision which is to be found in the brat part, and pro-
vided that in the case of any person presenting himself at
the table (fur I can t see why the resteictiou should only be
removed in the case of Jews), and having been (ally
elected, declaring that he was willing to take the prescribed
oaths, but than the words on the true f dth of a Chris-
tian' were not binding on his conscience, each house should
be empowered to omit those words, and to allow the eub-

stantive oath to b 3 taken iu the form which might be most
binding. I do not pledge myself to that view, but there

is intiea to bd said in it4slavoilr, and that by adopting it it

. .
is possible to a great extent to get rid of tlio very pa:nful
subject of difference between this and the other house. In
voting against the latter portion (of the amendment) I de-

sire totZelve to myself, and th:;se with whom I act, the

opportunity of eonsideritz upon some future occasion
whether any compromise, framed according to such. pi in-
ciple as I have mentioned, may not be adopted to termi-
nate the inconveniences arifiitig from, I fear, the permanent
difference cf op.n;ou betwetu your lurdsLips and the other
house."— _ _

Your lordsbipi.mu,t see that the bill which I framed
was founded on the statement of my noble friend. Ido
bliyh bound un
e dv,, to
not dry that my ncbtes friend w•a . a
• uPPort the Lill as I have framed it, sboulutt
reason to believe, from the manner in which he tx-
pressed himself and from Lid stating that much was to
be said in favour of a b'd so drawn out, that it woulit
hare the entire concurrence of my nolds friend. (near,
bear.) In that, hoeever, 1 Mil sorry to lay, I have
iwen elizNppuinie d. (Heed', hear.) I have not in point
atje.ctou to the bill of my noble
of principle 1,1;•3?
andgd'l+nttre,,d. I Lave ile per.riaal object in this
matter. (Hear, 14 .) have nothing but a public object
in w, and that object is carried, whether it be ac-
c,,copii..hed by my WU or
I
,apant i.drifi is to me a MZE ttrhre ofbipderoffearutiyndngeireeriacned•
(11.,,ar, !vier.) I Lave uo personal vanity to gratitt.
(Bear.) I t are been too long engaged in public hie to
Lflutne'ed by at,y fdainge of that desciipt,ou. (Elearr,
tear.) lam dtiiirous to eccomplish the object and to
V..taiu the end I have in view, and by wheineoever it