The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-29 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON,'

alleged that before the division was expected to take
place at the close of the late debate any intimation was
made of the Royal will, or any indication given of the
policy which the Government would recommend to the
Sovereign in respect to a dissolution. But, observed
the noble lerd--and this is a point on which he and his
friends are very sensitive—this event was talked about
everywhere—in the clubs, in the lobby of this house,. I
suppose, and certainly also with admirable frankness
here by several gentlemen below the gangway. (Laughter.)
"The word dissolution," said the noble lord, " was
spoken every where ; the practice of so speaking it is
most inconvenient, and I must, in a high constitutional
manner, gravely deprecate and denounce it." Well, I
believe the noble lord is quite correct as to the fact.
You really could not enter any house in England
in
which it was not said, " It must end in a dissolution.
Why did they say so What made people everywhere
say " This must end in a dissolution." Why, Sir, it
was the conduct of certain individuals in this house, who
so behaved towards her Majesty's Government that peo-
ple began to see and to feel that there was no alter-
native but getting rid of the house. (Laughter.) The
people who said it everywhere felt that Lord Derby had
been called upon by her Majesty most unexpectedly to
form a Goverment. Lord Derby told her Majesty that
he had not declared followers in the popular house suf-
ficient to give him anything approaching to a ma-
j rity, and in an admirable spirit humbly counselled
her Majesty to reconsider her appeal to him, at
the same time rightly assuring her that, whatever
might be her decision, he was entirely devoted to
her service. Her Majesty graciously condescended
to reconsider her appeal. These are not State secrets.
The noble lord seemed to intimate to the house and to
the country that I had been telling State secrets in
Buckinghamshire, but these are the statements which,
by her Majesty's permission, the Earl of Derby made in
the House of Lords when he announced his accession to
office. (Hear.) Well, the people of this country knowing
all this, knowing that Lord Derby and his friends had
not been eager to seize the spoils of office, but hail acted
very differently from the conduct of others recently—(a
laugh)—knowing that it was after the due representation
of these difficulties to her Majesty that she repeated her
wish, and that it was in deference to her commands and
from a paramount sense of duty, that we took this re-
sponsibility—knowing, as they did, that we had sedu-
lously, honestly, and not altogether without success, ad-
ministered affairs during our brief tenure of office, the
great body of the people, whether Whigs, Tortes, or
Radicals, when they saw a cabal organised—(cheers)—
when they saw the sense and spirit of the House of Com-
mons exhibited by some of its most eminent members
opposed to the Government generally, but yet not con-
deseending to take part with that cabal—(hear, hear)--
when they saw all these circumstances, felt as every man
of spirit, whatever his political opinions, must have felt,
that a Government which had acceded to power under
such circumstances and encountered such opposition
could not in duty recede from its position without hum•
bly counselling her Majesty to exert her constitutional
privileges. It wanted Ale Minister to menace Parliament
—it wanted not even the private intimations of people
in office to influence votes. The fear of a dissolution, the
announcement of a dissolution, came from the opposite
benches—from the opposite party. (Hear, hear.) It was
the general opinion of the country, which felt that the
Government of Lord Derby, encountering such opposi-
tion, ought not to and could not fail without appealing
to the popular tense. (Hear.) That was the general
feeling. It required no unconstitutional, no unduesex-
ercise of our position and authority to influence the pub-
lic voice and the division of this house. Palle
opinion was in our favour, because public opinion was
outraged by the conduct of certain individuals ; to that
public opinion we appeal, and I believe that it will sup •
port us, notwitstanding such sorry attacks as I have
met this evening. (Load and continued cheering.)
Mr. RICH said the right hon. gentleman had asked
why the noble lord the member for the City had gone for
information on our foreign relations to Lord Clarendon ;
but who so proper to go to on such a subject as the
late Secretary for Foreign Affairs f He did not regard
the ans wer of the late Prime Minister to Mr. Griffith, or
the change in the French embassy, as forming the
shadow of a shade of foundation for the right hon.
gentleman's assertion with regard to the alleged im
minency of a war with France. He considered the
right hon. gent eman's statement was, in fact, a most
unjustifiable attack both on England and on Franca ;
and it would ill become tiat house to rest satisfied with
such flimsy and irrelevant excuses as the right hon
gentleman had given. (Laughter from the ministerial
benches.) The right hon. gentleman said that he had
praised the house; but, in point of fact, he bad only
praised those who supported him ; and when he talked
about a cabal, was he prepared to recommend her Ma-
jesty to reinstate Lord Ellenborough 1 If the debate
had gone on, it would have been shown that the right
hon. gentleman was more guilty than even the noble
earl who had been made his victim ; for the right hon.
gentleman had himself, without consulting the nolla
earl, his colleague, divulged the contents of the de-
spatch, and thus rendered its publication necessary. It
was the right hon, gentleman himself who had osused
the resignation which Lord Ellenborough had so ma.-
naaimously tendered, and which the right hon. gentle-
man had, with such questionable taste, copied. (Hear.)
Sir G. C. LEWIS said it was with great reluctance
that he made any observation upon toe speech of the
right hon. gentleman, but being the only person con-
nected with the late Government present [a great num-
ber of members had left the hoes° immediately after
Mr. Disraeli's speech], he felt it his duty not to let some
of the observations which had fallen from the right hon.
gentleman pass without noties. The right hon, gentle-
man's observations consisted mainly in denying the ac-
curacy of the report of his speech which had appeared in
the newpapers.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I beg
your pardon. What I objected to was the language
attributed to me by the noble lord. Ido not at all ques-
tion the accuracy of the reports.
Sir G. LEWIS ventured, from his recollection of the
reports of the speech in the newspapers, to affirm that
his noble friend's version was more accurate than the
account given of it by the right hon. gentleman himself.
That was the deliberate statement which he (Sir G.
Lewis) made in that house. (Hear, hear,) With regard
to what the right hon. gentleman had said with respect
to Oude, he (Sir G. Lewis) begged to say that what the
right hon. gentleman had condemned was a policy of
massacre and extermination. He had a distinct recol-
lection that the word "massacre" was used. (Hear,
hear.) Now he (Sir G. Lewis) claimed for the late Ge-
vernment a policy of clemency and mercy so far as justice
to our own countrymen would permit. (Hear.) The
popular objection to the policy of Lord Canning, which
policy had received the approbation of the late Govern-
meet, was that it was a weak policy, that it erred too much
on the side of lenity, and that bis administration of justice
was not sufficiently severe. He was at a loss to under-
stand the panegyric which the right hon. gentleman had
pronounced upon himself for having repudiated the
imaginary policy of confiscation. (Hear.) As to this
country and France being within a few hours of war,
when the late Government left office they were wholly
ignorant of the danger in which the right hon. gentleman
said the country was placed. (Hear, hear.) The division
by which the late Government were put out of office took
them by surprise—(a laugh)—they were not aware that
our relations with France were of a menacing kind.
Undoubtedly there was a strong feeling in this coon-
try with reference to the expressions which had been
used by officers of the French army, and inserted
in the Moniker, and which it was thought had not
been sufficiently disavowed ; but to say that there was
any such misunderstanding between the two governments
as threatened this country with an imminent war
was, in his opinion, one of the grossest misrepresenta-
ti ins which a responsible minister had ever attempted to
impose upon the house and the country. (Hear.) He
denied it in the most positive manner, and was satisfied
that the;right hon. gentleman would find himself utterly
unable to produce any evidence in support of his asset..
tion. The only fragment or attempt at proof which he
had been sae to produce was the answer made by Lord
Palmerston to Mr. Griffith, when he asked what was
undoubtedly a somewhat indiscreet question at that
moment. Lord Palmerston had declined to answer that
question, and had said that if such questions, pointing
personally at the Emperor of the French, and impugn-
ing his veracity and good faitb, were to be put from day
to-day in that house, it would be likely to lead to mitts
understanding, and perhaps war, between the two coun-
tries. But that did not in any way relate to pending
negotiations, or to anything that bad passed between the
two Governments. (Hear.) He thought that the ques-
tion of India was in a very grave state ; but he was per-
fectly contented to take his share of responsibility fur
having supported the motion of Mr. Cardwell. He
believed that that motion was founded upon perfectly
good and defensible principles. Notwithstanding all
that had passed he retained the opinion that the com-
position of Lord Ellenborough's despatch, and the pub-
lication of that secret despatch in the way_in_which it
hadi deserved the urfavourable notice of the house.
been. done in that house, was a great offence, which
announcementeceeffect—it h a
do f
producedt he motion
the hadre s hadg nationat l eoafs tLoonr
de
juhstey
bo
goodTtEhi
elEllenborough.
potuagnhc.e (Hear)
his resignationenr)Hiswithdbrawthaell
Prime
eoffimce, and
t
was so far an acknowledgment of tyhe justice of tbmiesceenr,-
sure which the house was inclined t'? p
(Haar.) The subsequent publ cation ofatshseupseocn his actretCorr ;-
pondence between Lord Canning and Sir James Outram
—rendered necessary, he admitted, by the previous im-
proper publication of Lord Ellenborough despatch, was
attended with grave inconvenience for many reasons.
On no previous occasion had a correspondence oftbat
nature been submitted to the house. Sir James Outram
was distinctly charged to suppress all the copies of the
proclamation in its original form ; but this identical
proclamation had been laid on the table of the house,
and would thug be made public to all India. (Hear,
hear.) He could not but think that the production of
that correspondence was an atzgravati-m of the ceiginial
offence. Ile had hoped thet the goverment would have
been able to a-in unce the appointment of a responsible
minister to preside over the Board of Control ; but that
expectation had not been satisfied that evening. Lord
Ellenborough, he presumed, held office only until his
succes-or was appointed ; it would be unreasonable to
ask for any explanation of policy from him, or to inquire
what were the intentions of the government until that
office was filled. As soon as this was done, he hoped to
hear from the President of the Board of Control, if a
member of that house, or from some other member of the
government, a distinct statement of what they intended
to do with the territ pry of Oude.
Mr. M. GIBSON—We seem to be in a somewhat un-
settled state, and I shall not venture to intrude my opi-
nion upon the house as to the cause of the uneasiness
which exists ; but I may be permitted to notice the
remarks of the right hon. gentleman who spoke last with
respect
to the publication of the correspondence between
the
(governor-General and Sir Jamei Oatram. The
right hon. gentleman objected to the production of that

correspondence. I hold an entirely different opinion. I ; friend (Lord Palmerston) for having disiolved this house
believe that the House of Commons has suffered far after its vote respecting China. But why had he not
more from suppression and secresy than from publicity, seized the first opportunity to tell his noble friend how
(Hear.) I will not be one to complain of a Government, ! unconstitutionally be had acted? It was marvellous that
whether Conservative or Liberal, who think it consistent he had omitted until the present moment to notice that
with their public duty to communicate information to when the house voted against the policy of the Chi-
the House of Commons ; and I say that I think that nese war the late First Lord of the Treasury, "the most
those gentlemen who brought forward the late motion popular Minister the country ever had," dissolved Par-
in reference to Lord Ellenborough's despatch have no liament, in spite of ail constitutional arguments to the
right whatever to complain of the production of the cor- contrary, which he must have imbibed from association
respondence as respects their own interests, for it far- with the noble lord (J. Russell) and sent hon. members
nished them with a creditable mode of escaping from a about their business. But why should the noble lord be so
very difficult position. (Cries of " Hear," from the Mini- , sensitive about a dissolution ? Did not ardent patriots
sterial side.) I believe that motion was from the begin- always rejoice to meet their constituents ? (A. laugh.) If
ning based on a false issue, and that it would have ended hon. members had been faithful to their trust, why should
in any case in a defeat ; but the being able to say that they fear to appear on the hustings ? The noble lord's
further information had put the matter in a different po- speech showed a just appreciation of the disagreeable
iiion was, in point offset, beine able to take advantage consequences of meeting his constituents to justify a vote
of a mode of escape somewhat more creditable than in condemnation of the policy of Lord Ellenborough.
otherwise would have been the case. (Hear, hear.) I He (Mr. Whiteside) thought that, unexpected as this
was not prepared to-night for a discussion on the state of ; discussion had been, nothing had been said in the course
the nation, and I think that some notice ought to have of it to prejudice either the conduct of the Government
been given of the intention to raise such a discussion— or the speech of his right hon. friend. (Hear, hear.)
(hear, hear)—but with respect to some observations Lord J. RUSSELL said he had not intended to mis-
which have been made in reference to the Conspiracy represent the right hon. gentleman. He thought the word
Bill I will take leave to say that I did not collect from used was " extermination ;" he now found that it was
the public statements of the right hon. member for " unmitigated vengeance and massacre." (Hear, hear.)
Buckinghamshire that he approved the Conspiracy He assured the last speaker that he had not thrown any
Bill itself as proposed by the late Government, but that blame on Lord Palmerston for dissolving Parliament.
he would not be a party to object to the introduction of Mr. GRIFFITH having been frequently ref rred to,
a measure in deference to the wishes of the French Go- wished to observe that the majority of 200 in favour of
vernment. (Hear, hear.) I really, when I brought the introduction of the Conspiracy Bill had been ob-
forward my amendment, framed it with the feeling on tained by the production of a despatch of Count Wa-
my mind that hon. gentlemen were not committed to lewki, disavowing the language of the French colonels ;
the merits of the particular measure, and without know- but it was not then known that that despatch would re-
ing what course hoe. gentlemen would take, I felt that ceive the same publicity as the regimental addresses.
there was nothing in the public speeches which had Finding this was the case, he had put the question to
been made that precluded members from opposing the Lord Palmerston that had been referred to ; and he
Conspiracy Bill on its merits on the second reading, and , thought it a most appropriate question.
I am one of those who never considered that there was CAPTAINS ON THE HALF-PAY LIST.
any inconsistency in a member voting for the first read- Sir DE L. EVANS moved for an humble address to
ing of a bill, and afterwards voting against the principle her Majesty praying that her Majesty would begracion,ly
of the bill on the second reading. With respect to the pleased to take into consideration the hardship experi-
question of Sardinia and Naples, I for one should be enced by captains of cavalry and infantry, who, having
very sorry to see the Government of the day urged into been reduced to the non-effective list by order of Govern-
s* unnece sarily hostile course in reference this mat• meat, at the termination of the late war in 1856, and
ter, as if it were an evil that the question between Sar- tieing replaced on the effective strength of the army on
dinia and Naples should be settled without fighting. the breaking oat of the war in the East in 1857, found
(Hear, hear.) A resolution come to at the Conference themselves posted to regiments in relatively inferior
at Paris pointed out a mode of settling differences that rank to lieutenants, who had obtained the rank of cap-
might arise between the Powers of Europe ; and the tain, by purchase or otherwise, during the intermediate
representatives of the great Powers at that Conference year of peace. The hon. and gallant gentleman, who
all pledged themselves that previously to having recourse was indistinctly heard, said he understood that the cap-
to arms it was desirable to settle such disputes as might Mine of cavalry and infantry were pitched upon by the
occur by arbitration or mediation. That having been Government, when the non-effective list was made out,
the deliberate resolution of the parties to the Conference, rather than the subalterns, beoause 61. or 7d. additional
and it having been so recently agreed to, I certainly per day would be saved ; but he thought that was by no
cannot complain if tba Government did appear desirous means a justification of any departure from the ordinary
of bringing into action the principle of that resolution, practice, and he appealed to the house as a matter of
and of endeavouring by every means in their power to equity in favour of redress being given to these officers.
bring about a settlement of this question between Sar- Those officers had been reduced improperly and inequi•
ditlia and Naples by arbitration or mediation. I there- tably, and were called upon after 10 months to come
fore could not, for one, have been a party to support any back, not to a peace but to a war service, many of them
motion made in this house with a view to prevent, as it being men of most distinguished merit. He would not
were, the peaceable settlement of the question. (Hear, detain the house further.
hear.) lam extremely glad to find that on the question The amendment having been put,
of India both sides of the house are willing to support, Col. NORTH bad no objection to second the motion,
or to avow their support of, the principles of humanity and wished its objects could be carried into effect. He
and mercy. I remember reading not long since a re- had upon a former occasion remonstrated against the
markable passage in the leading journal to this effect— unjust treatment of those officers. Still, he must own
that in the affairs of India humanity and justice were there was great difficulty in dealing with the question.
secondary considerations. Well, lam glad to find that The amendment on the original motion having been
we are not ashamed to be thought capable of acting in put,
the spirit of humanity, justice, and mercy to the people Gen. PEEL replied, admitting the hardship of the
of India, notwithstanding the great atrocities which case put by the hon, and gallant officer the member for
have undoubtedly been committed towards our own fel- Westminster, but it was quite impossible to make the
low-subjects in that country, (Hear.) I, therefore, am exception for which he asked without ex ;ending it over
glad that this discussion has arisen, in order that the the whole army. He was not in office at the time the
world may see that as passions have become subdued all reduction complained of took place, and was not there-
parties are favourable to a policy of humanity and fore responsible.
'mercy. (Hear.) If there bo astonishment felt that a Sir DE L. EVANS withdrew his amendment.
great party like the Liberal party, being superior, no EDUCATION IN THE ARMY. .
doubt, in numbers both in the country and this house Mr. MONSELL put three questions to the Secretary
to what is called the Conservative party, should never- for War. The first was whether or not the right hon.
theless find itself on the Opposition benches, I think gentleman intended to carry out the principle affirmed
that that state of affairs can only be explained by this by a resolution of the House of Commons with regard
simple circumstance—that the party has been badly led to the scientific corps of the army • if a minute had
and badly handled ; that those who have conceived the been issued to that effsct, and if suchl minute would be
policy which it should adopt and support have been laid upon the table of the house l secondly, wilt-
mistaken, and we have, unfortunately, by those mis tiler any changes were in contemplation in respect
takes been led to the ",cold shade" of Opposition, when to Woolwich, in which place it was absolutely
otherwise hon. gentlemen near me would have still been necessary to make changes for the reception of
on the Treasury benches. lam firmly myself of this cadets, of whom there were now three or four of 21 or 22
opinion, and I see no chance whatever of the restoration years of age sleeping in the same room, and without pri-
to power of the Liberal party, unless that party brings vale rooms for study ? and thirdly, he wished to ask the
forward its own measures, founded on its own prig- right hon. gentleman as to the constitution of the coun-
ciplea, and carries its measures through into practical cif of military education ? They were much indebted to
effect, and shows to the country that it is not merely the the Commander-in-Chief for the establishment of the
Liberal party in name, but that it is earnest in the cause council of military education, which would produce the
cf reform, and will use power, when it has it to carry its beet results, but he wanted to know whether upon that
principles into practical legi lation. (Hear, bear.) councl the right hon. gentleman would not place an
Mr. COLLIER said that the Chancellor of the Ex- artillery officer, and also some civilian like Canon Most.
chi quer had charged Lord Jofin Russell with grave tins- ley, who was conversant with the subject generally ?
representations of what he had said at Slough ; but, as He mentioned Canon Moseley as it was well known
the correctness of the report was admitted, be would what time and attention he had given to this subject.
read a short passage from it. Lord John Russell had Gen. PEEL replied to all three questions in the affir-
said that he (Mr. Disraeli) accused certain statesmen of tnative. It was the intention of the Government to early
advocating a policy of cruelty, massacre, and cxtermina- out the resolution of that house. A minute in accord-
tion. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said he had ance therewith had been printed, and would be laid on
done no more than allude to confiscation. (Hear, hear.) the table, that would improve the condition of the Wool-
Let the house judge between them. The right hon.
wich establishment, and Carson Moseley had been ap-
gentleman was reported to have said, " But we had to
plied to, and would accept a place in the council for
decide—for it was the turning point of our Indian em- military education. (Cheers.)
pire—the character of the policy which ought to be pur- ARMY ESTIMATES.
sued ; whether it should be a poliny of unmitigated von- The house then went into committee on the army esti-
geance, or whether the time had arrived when we should mater,(aLe".
attempt to rebuild ourgreat empire in the east on principles
of a very different character, and leading, as we believed, to chareesaforeducation,
vote of 118 71817t/hebeeeiienngtipfireofroasteieds
oft the
efray the
Sir D. NORREYS asked when the report on tlseO
a very different result. Was it to be m litary occupa- nance survey would be laid on the table. r service.i.
tiou by an army four times greater in amount than any General PEEL replied that the report was ready, and
army of Europeans that ever entered that country ? would be laid on the table in a few days.
Was it to be military occupation, attended by enormous Mr. MONSELL called attention to the scale of pay-
tax ttion, by a draining of her Majesty's subjects from mentsnow required for cadets at Sandhurst College. Tue
this country, and by a perpetual exhaustion of our re- establishment scarcely cost the country anything for the
sources ? Or were we to recognise that vengeance had payment of the cadets supported, but he wished to know
done its duty ? Were we to recognise that the time had awhyda genit le
F 'at colonel son paida-year, while the son of
n dai nega a t
arlong i ran t
andpaid
so but
on
arrived, or was fast arriving, when, upon the fall of the 8011 a aulliie'uotrenant-cnceolra7T
rebellious capital, we ought to announce to the inhabi- Re should be sorry to makean'y objectionp against facilities
tants of India the principle on which we proposed to re- being afforded to the sons of officers receiving an educe-
construct our empire—a principle that we believed must tion at a cheap rate, but that ought not to be done at the
contribute to their happiness and to the welfare and expense of private gentlemen who sent their sons into
power and glory cf this country ? Was it always to be these schools. In no country in Europe was such's system
massacre and confscatite ? Or, on the other hand, was practised but iu this. France, Austria, and Prussia, had
it to be discriminating amnesty'? (Loud cheers from the bourses for the sons of officers where they received a free
Ministerial benches.) Hon. gentlemen opposite cheered education, but however that maybe, the public ought not
to be made to pay for the sons of other people.
loudly, and they had given efficient support to the Go Col. NORTH reminded his right hon, friend that Sand-
vernment lately by their lungs at least. (A. laugh.) The hurst was-intended originally for the orphan children of
question was whether the right hon. gentleman was con officers, and was established. by the Duke of York, and
rect in stating that he had referred only to confiscation, mainly by the exertions of a gallant officer, the father of an
Mr, WIIITESIDE said it was right that the house hon. baronet (Sir Denis le Merchant), who headed a bril-
should understand what the noble lord intended to int- Rant charge•at the battle of Vittoria. In lels it contained
pute to the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the 412 cadets, 156 of whom were the orphan children of offi-
Exchequer. The right hon. gentleman inquired whe- cars who had fallen in action, and the country contributed
Cher the policy to be pursued is India was to be one of to its support no less than 21,3001. Ten years after, how-
vengeance and confiscation, or one consistent with an ever, the services of the army were forgotten, and through
enlightened amnesty I Now, he (Mr. Whiteside) upheld the instrumentality of certain
w hon. members of that house,
orphan
with altogether.
and the
and abided by that sentiment, which was a sentiment of
away
yrom Sir D.gNORREYS, the vote was
humanity and reason, and consistent with the opinions
of the people of this country—(hear) —and he was stir- agreed to.
gfrt ae:a classtfoe strd the school
prised to see those gentlemen who were so confident The text vote was a sum of 15,3201. for military services.
of the censure they sought to cast on the Government, Lord HOTHAeI complained of the practice which now
but who shrunk from bringing their motion of censure prevailed with respoot to the decoration of the Order of
to the test of a division, now come forward and corn- the Ba;h. Instead of a gallant officer who received that
plain of that language. The right hon. gentleman the reward being allowed to transmit the decoration to his
member for Radnor said he abided by all that the posterity, the first thing done oat the news of his death was
right hon. member for Oxford did and intended to do, the Order,
r applicationtohtigy
1. ordera eonft
at
thiev Princeet
Order
off
that he was affected by no arguments, changed by no the Bath 'whicLrheepofficers of the rleitriltriashit.serviihcee received
facts facts ; in fact, that he wail unchangeable, and to be con- were obviously of so little value that they felt it necessary
vinced by nothing. (Hear, and laughter) The right hon. to go to a jeweller, and to have it furnished with a silver
gentleman abided by all his original and erroneous opi• decoration, without which he would be ashamed to appear
nions, and sought to persuade himself—for he never with it. He might advert to the distribution of the Order
would persuade any one else—that the whole House of at the close of the Crimean war, when the French officers,
Commons was wrong and he himself alone right. (Hear, as well as the British, were selected to receive it; and state
and a laugh.) The right hon. gentleman said that he had that while the Order distributed to the French was mounted
not been aware in reference to France and England of in silver, that distributed to the British officers —he spoke
anything likely to lead to a collision between the two it not offensively—was mhunted in pasteboard, and was
countries. The right hon. gentleman mu tt surely have of. s o
Hien fe r k ior a description that they could not wear
libertybringing of the subject under
M the consideration of
been living in the Republic of Plato, and not the ordi-too
the house last
year, and it was his
nary world. (A. laugh.) He asked for proofs of this fact? intention to have followed it up eserlyr, in this session,
but it was rather a strange thing to call upon a Minister had not a change of Government taken place. There
of the Crown to prove seriatim all the different matters was, however, a gallant officer now in the War-office, who,
communicated to him which would justify a statement he had no doubt, would recommend such an improvement
to his constituents, but which yet might not be capable in the order as would give satisfaction.
of accurate and logical demonstration. Did the right Col. NORTH could bear testimony to much of what had
hon. gentleman, however, mean to toll this house that fallen from his hon. and gallant friend, and he was rites
the matter could not be in better hands than
there was no language used by French military men, thehaN;rflt-
none publi-hed by the journals, none employed in high pharoniroaenadt.gallant friend now at the head o
quarters, which offended, and justly offended, the people General BULK ELEY, in calling attention to the distri-
Of this country ? Did he mean to say that there were no bution of the Victoria Cross, referred to its bestowal on
facts patent to everybody which justified the apprehen• the present Sir H. Havelock in a manner not undue to
sion of a collision between the two countries I The right that gallant officer, for his distinguished service in heading
.hop. gentleman might have remembered these facts in the 64th regiment in a difficult service, but complained of
ilia calmer moments—for he had been unusually lively this by that gallant regiment as being limited in its honour to
evening, while the noble lord was particularly tranquil, a single individual, whereas the service was of a nature
(A laugh.) The allusion to what had passed in this house entitling the whole regiment to a participation in the glory
respecting our relations with France was not quite fair agedis).actktnowledgment of the valour of attacking
e ne
t to Sir Henry
and accurate. The motion of the right hon. gentleman HavelocE'crys.a He must, howeesier,tintajtuos
acceptic
the order,
(Mr Gibson) censored the late Government for not having which he coryasiiierwereqvuearTlyrduace toa the valour of the gal-
replied to a despatch affecting the honour and dignity of lent 64th Regiment. (Hear.)
this country; and the House of Commons in passing that Mr. BRISCOE agreed in the opinion that officers who
resolution did not decide that the law of conspiracy might received the Order of the Bath were ashamed to wear it.
not be considered at a fit and proper time. The house When they received the order they sent it to a jeweller,
was of opinion that the Ministry did not discharge their who gave an increased value to it ; but the " order," htt his
duty on that occasion ; but the right hon. gentleman death, was applied for, and his relatives had to give it up.
thought the House of Commons was wrong again. With Sir C. LEWIS said allusion having been he
wpoasted to be
regard to the affair of Naples, he (Mr. Whiteside) main- observation
conferredno2isHwhd n the
kaniiiieui annuity te
beggedwatopsraoy, in expla-
taitied that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had just nat
o n
thato he diinotavmeloeacn, to Gist any imputation on
cause for what he sail as to the atterup•edatnicable set- the gitl'latit officer who commanded the 61th Regiment, or
tlement of that question. He could quite understand upon that gallant regiment itself, of whose gallantry he
that England, being on terms of friendship with Sardinia, entertained the highest opinion. (Hear.)
should wish to stand by a country governed not upon . General PEEL was glad to bear his testimony to the
Mazaininn pr nciples, not by the despotism of the soldier valour of the Glth Regiment, than which a more gallant
or tie priest, but upon constitutional principles. But, corps was not in the service.
however v ell disposed we might be towards Sardinia, we Mr. MONSELL expressed a hope that the hon. and gal-
were • in relation to
not bound at all times to undertake every quart of lant gentlemen would carry nob.
set
ooaj
which the whole
she might engage in with other countries. Why had not theOiewlearso,f,trhoesißath, being j c
this question ben debated ? He had real the papers mi. tense
a r W. CODRINGTON said that there were two things
neatly, expecting a discussion in this house ; and be connected with the " star." One was the " tinselled star."
maintained that the noble earl at the head of the Foreign When an officer received it, ho was obliged to go to a
office, although be might not have tie wgrap n cones to jeweller to get it set in silver. He himself hal distributed
write him up, had discharged hi; duty with firmness, the star set in silver to the French officers; but the star
moderation, and ability. (Hear.) B ith the noble lord given to the British officers was a mere tinselled order,
(J. Russell) and the right hen. tlseemed
gen eman some- .
which they wore ashamed to wear. The other consider*.
what excited with teen was, the; there was a jewel in the order which was
respect to India ; and the latter had
very costlyt
in Ile thought the. jewel might be made much
asked, no doubt with perfect s' '
what incerity, was the o•• •
Pet d his opinion,instead of b ing taken from
smeller, t -
i • i y f the Government? Hal the right hon. gentleman on his death, it ought to be given
the family of an officer
ral the despatches ? If so, he did not appear
to . have by the Drown
to the officer with the understanding that it
mastered the principle which pervaded them. If the would descene to his children. (Hears hear ) Make the
right hon• gentleman would examine these de•Patehes in order as cheap as they liked, but let it descend as an lion-
the philosophical manner in which he read a book, he our to his children.
would understand the policy of the Government—e po- I Loid HOTIIANI said it would be very desirable to have
licy which had not been disapproved by the house, and the order made lighter. A
sh its
was, it was so heatry that
which they were not afraid would be disapproved by the it was always expo-gad to the danger of falling from the
country. The noble lord had concluded his speech by a officer's brew tby the action of his horse.
Mr. WILLIAMS said
, looking at the list, he saw an
shirt dis.ertetion upon the constitution. It was a very immense number of officers air non-commissioned officers
unconstitutional thing, he said, to threaten the house i
. down n it as receiving pensions, amounting in the whole
with a dissolution ; and of course it was even more un- ! to 2,240,0001.
'
constitutional to do the act itself. Then the noble lord, An HON. MEMBER—Including the half-pay.
I
knowing what would otherwise be said to him, took good Mr. WILLIAMS—WeII, including the hallpay. He
care to give a gentle and temperate rebuke to his noble should have thought that, after the Crimean war, a dimi.
:.,