The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-24 00:00:00

1 8 5 8.

the objects of the military commission appointed to in- 1 METROPOLIS LOCAL MANAGEMENT BILL.
quire into the organisation of our Indian army. The ' On the motion that this bitl, as amended, be considered,
hon. and gallant member proceeded at some length to ex- : Lord J. MANNERS moved, that no works upon the
plain his views on various points, but in so low a tone
:. bed or shores of the said river Thames below high-water
of voice as to render it utterly impossible to hear him. : mark shall at any time be commenced or executed, under
We understood him to advocate the sending out of large ; the provisions of this act, without the same having been
reinforcements to India by the overland route, so as to I previously approved of by the Lord High Admiral, or
insure their getting to India in the shortest possible the Commissioners for executing the office of Lord High
period, to replace the heavy losses we have endured dur- Admiral; such approval to be from time to time specified
ing the hot season campaign. With respect to our position in writing, under the hand of the Secretary to the
in Oude, we did not hold a foot of ground except that Admiralty.
occupied by our troops, and the hon. and gallant mem- Mr. AYRTON suggested thet after the words
ber read the following letter, to show that the rebellion "high-water mark" there should be inserted, " which
was not merely a revolt of sepoys :—"You will under- , shell interfere with the navigation of the river."
stand that, although the great events of the war are at Lord J. MANNERS said he had no objection,
an end, the difficulties of it are by no means so. We are and the clause, as amended, was agreed to.
committed to a very long contest, of which I suspect we Lord J. MANNERS then moved, that it may he
have as yet only seen the beginning. I trust I may be : lawful for the Secretary of State for the Home De-
in error. The insurgents are very easily dispersed ; but : partment, at his discretion, on representation or corn-
then, on the other hand, they gather together as easily. 1 plaint made to him of any nuisance committed in the
I am very desirous to see the Government step forward 1 execution of any works, or in deodorising any sewage,
and lend a hand to us by judicious proclamations of am- 1 or in disposing of any sewage or refuse from sewers,
nesty. There has been too much blood already, and by lor in any other manner under this act, to cause in-
denying mercy altogether, as we do now, to the vast 1 quiry to be made into the matter represented or
mutinous masses, we perpetuate the civil war, and by ! complained of to him, and to direct such prosecution
our own act retain a large army for the insurgent nobles I or prosecutions, or to take such other proceedings as
of the various provinces. Until an effort is made to de- 'he may think fit, in order to ensure the prevention
tech these two interestsfrom one another, the struggle,will ! or abatement of such nuisance as aforesaid.
grow in intensity. As soon as we succeed in dissolving : Agreed to.
the alliance it will die out, bat not till Shen. This might On clause 1,
have been done some time ago ; now it would not be so 1 Mr. PULLER moved the insertion of the words, "or
easy. At any rate, in considering the subject, we must from being brought within the boundaries of the metro-
always look at the Sepoy mutiny as a great national in- 1 polis by the action of the tide."
surrection, and I think, for freedom." Lord J. MANNERS said that the Government had
STAMPED LETTER PAPER. determined not to interfere with the points of outfall or
Mr. MAGUIRE said it had been his intention to 1 the plans. The 26th clause would be sufficient to pre-
occupy the attention of the house for some time to a ' vent any nuisance such as that eontemplated by the
question he had put on the paper, but looking at the I hon. gentleman. He therefore hoped the hon. member
state of the public business he should confine himself would not press his amendment.
to asking the Secretary of the Treasury how the matter The amendment was negatived without a divisior.
now stood with respect to the issue of stamped letter The report was then received, and the bill was ordered
paper, and the convenience that would arise from a large : to be read a third time to-morrow (this day).
and speedy issue. It wen not his desire to see a compul-
-1 DRAFTS ON BANKERS LAW AMENDMENT
sory use of such paper, but the inconvenience in legal
BILL.
and other proceedings from the separation of enclosures I
and their envelopes, and the difficulty of proving that the 1 On the motion that the report on this bill be con-
envelopes themselves had ever conveyed the letters they i sidered,
were supposed to do, rendered it a matter of public im- l Mr. HANKEY said he was absent when the measure
portance that stamped letter paper should be freely
passed through its previous stage, as he had no idea that i
issued. If so, there was no doubt it would be freely used lit would be brought forward at a late hour. He al-o
by the public. i said that he thought the bill might have been made mere
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON said the Commissioners of simple than it was.
Inland Revenue gave every facility for the issue of Mr. MALINS deprecated the custom of proceeding
stamped letter paper. They were quite ready to stamp with important bills like that under consideration at a
every sheet of paper sent in to them by any party for the late hour at night. (Hear, hear.) The question was one
purpose. of the greatest importance, and it was of the utmost con-
ROYAL COMMISSION ON THE ARMY. sequeece to trading and mercantile interests that it
Colonel KNOX inquired when the report of the Royal should be settled. He had been in communication with
Commission to inquire into the state of the army would a gentleman who suggested a very simple plan for her-
be presented ? rectiog and putting a stop to the abuses and frauds which
General PEEL replied that the report bad been sent were for some time back in operation in relation to
to her Majesty for approval, and as soon as he received " crossed" cheques. His plan had been sub-nittell to
her Majesty's orders it would be laid upon the table of 'numerous bankers, and was admitted by them to be an
the house. effectual safeguard against fraud. It was to write the
WELLINGTON MONUMENT. cheque, and on the counterfoil of the cheque, the words
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY asked the Chancellor of the " crossed cheque," and no one was to be at liberty to
banker upon whom it was
Exchequer if he could give him a portion of Monday,
pay the cheque
either at the morning sitting or in the evening, to call at 'drawn. Tne foil but the
upon which the words " crossed
tension to the subject of the Wellington monument?
cheque" were written, was to be torn off, and held as a
g
PUBLIC AFFAIRS. cheque against any fraudulent negotiation of the imam-
Lord PALMERSTON—Before the right hon. gentle- went.man answers the question which has been put to him, I The ATTORNEY-GENERAL greatly regretted that
t
should wish, in the first place, to say
a few words as to there was much misapprehension aniout the character
what fell from my hon. and gallant friend the member for ' and probable operation of the bill. It was well known
Westminster, concerning the transport ef troops to India. to every London banker and drawer of cheques that
cheques
• t
In my opinion, if you send anything more than a small ; " crossing" had been hitherto the best and
most effectual protection against carelessness or disho-
seanumber of men, I think it is far better to send them by
than by the overland route across Egypt. It is not a nesty, in the event of the cheque being stolen or lost.
matter of sound policy that this country should make her That_ safeguard, however, became inoperative, and Mr.
military communication with India through a territory Apsley Pellatt brought in a bill to remedy the defect.
belonging to another. It is far better to keep such things ! It was, however, found that the bill thus brought in was
in your own hands—(hear, bear) —and to send troops when entirely ineffectual; an_d he (the Attorney-Gencral) at
you like and as you like. It has been stated by the noble ' the request of some of the most eminent mercantile men,
lord that a commission has been appointed to consider amounting in number to 1,300, brought in the present
the best means of reorganising the native army of India, i bill. The otject of the bill was to make it obligatory
That course I do not presume to criticise. I do condemn • on parties to cross cheques, and that when crossed the
the reasons which led the present Government to ap. . party attempting fraudulently to convert them would be
point such a commission iu England, but the late Go- ' severely punishable by law.
vernment were of opinion that such an inquiry could be Mr. ROEBUCK cad crossed cheques were certainly
best conducted in India by military men who had recent 'of great importance as a protection against fraud. He,
experience, and who coul lon the one hand value the however, much regretted that in the framing of cheques
danger to be overcome, and on the other know the corn I a change had been made in the bill, doing away with the
penent forces of which such an army should be Com• necessity of having them written upon ruled paper.
posed. It may be that the disturbances in India may Mr. INGRAM was of opinion that writing the words
have led to the dispersion of officers whose judgment i " crossed cheque" across the water mark, would be a
would be of importance on such an inquiry, men whom great protection against fraud.
it would be difficult to assemble at present, or even at an The report of the amendments was agreed to, and the
early 1 viod ; but this, at all events, must be clear to the bill was ordered to be read a third time tomorrow.
house, that if the commission consisted of men in this PROBATE AND LETTERS OF ADMINISTRA-
country, not even the new members of the Indian Conn- TION AMENDMENT ACT.
cif could be equally competent to give sound opinions as , The ATTORNEY.GENER AL, in reeving the second
to the best method of composing and re-organising the reading of this bill, said his object in introducing it was
Indian local and native army, as those persons who had principally with a view of correcting some errors which
been mixed up in recent transactions—(bear, hear)—who had crept into the former bill. The present bill would
knew the tendencies of the army, the difference of races, enable the judge of one of the newly-appointed
and the influence of caste, and in what manner with the .
courts to sit occasionally in the Court of Probate, by way
greatest safety to the public interest in future such an i
of assisting and relieving the judge of the latter, who
army could be composed. The noble lord has said that would also be empowered by the bill to sit in chambers.
he did not intend to make any general statement this He should therefore propose that the bill be now read a
session on Indian affairs, but that he was willing to an- second time, and that it be committed to-morrow (this
ewer any question on particular points. The noble lord dwt.)
forgot to notice two or three points to which my right Mr. MALINS hoped his hon. and learned friend
hon, friend directed his attention. My right hon. friend would not persevere in his motion to commit the bill
asked him, regarding the Indian loan, whether the I to-morrow, and that he would postpone the going into
amount which bad been authorised by Parliament would
committee until Monday. He assured his hon. and
be sufficient for the services of the Indian Government learned friend that his object was not to gain time that
until the beginning of next year. Without entering into I he might oppose the bill.
any general statement of Indian affairs, perhaps the noble , Lord HOTHAM complained that the effect of the pro-
lord will answer that question on Monday next. I must i viso of the bill would be to interfere with and obstruct
say that the statement made by the hon. gentleman, the country practitioners in the pursuit of their profession ;
Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, with regard to the and he hoped his hon. and learned friend would not per-
question put to him by the hon. member for Loutb, severe in maintaining that proviso in the bill.
was to me anything but satisfactory. I think my hon. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL begged to suggest to
friend was perfectly justified, in the present state of i his noble friend that the consideration of the queetkm
things, in not allowing the session to close without I would be more proper for the committee ; and if the bill
asking for definite information on the point to which
should, on passing through committee, appear defective,
he had directed the attention of the house. I wish it could, in a future session, be amended, when they
the house to remember the actual state of this would have more experience of its workitig.
matter. Unfortunately there bave been differences Lord HOTHAM—It was all very well forlais hon.
between this Government and the Government and learned friend to say, " wait until we go into corn-
of the United States, with regard to transactions i mittee." The question was important and ought not to
in the waters of Cuba. The Under-Secretary for be thrown over.
Foreign Affairs told us two months ago that cer- Mr. WARREN said he had given notion already of
taro concessions had been made by the British Govern- ihis intention to move an amendment in committee,
mann The public had since then been informed by the "That the Court of Probate be thrown open to the
Minister for the United States, who stated with great members of the bar generally to practise in ;" and he
pi ide, and in a manner which was received by his as- 1 should also take the opportunity of moving in committee
serubled countrymen with ehou's of triumph, that this I that all members of the bar, and all attorneys, should be
Government had made great concessions to the Govern- at liberty to practise in the Admiralty Court. He
meta of the United States. That this Government bad I would now give notice to his hon. and learned friend
abandoned some rights or pretended lights for which that it was his intention to persevere in those amend-
preceding Governments had always contended. Of course I ments. (Hear, bear.)
lam ready to admit that it is inexpedient to make in- I Mr. HA.DFIELD begged to remind the house that
quiries pending negotiations, and, therefore, my honour- last session, when the Probate Bill was before them, it
able friend was right in saying that he did not ask what was agreed to give compensation to those who were to
the convention was that was proposed by the United be deprivsd by the provisions of the bill of the advantages
States. I think, from what fell from the Secretary of which they exclusively possessed in the exercise and prac-
State on a former occasion, we might justly have in- tice of their profession under the old system, provided the
(erred that some arrangement had been made, but now monopoly which those persons possessed were broken
it appears that no arrangements have yet been made. down, and that the ceurt was to be thrown open to all
But though he was quite right in abstaining from asking practitioners. (Hear) The bill passed that house,
for information, the house had a right to be ieforreed as
the clause being retained, and the measure was sent up
to the facts ; for, from the statement of the Minister of in that state to the other house. There, the part cf the
the United States, it would appear that there are some clause relating to compensation was retained ; but the
incomplete transactions with regard to our maritime part giving power to all barristers and members of
rights ; and it is desirable to know whether these trans- the profession to practise in ihe coact was struck out by
actions have r ferenca to matters which former Go- some influence. He therefore proposed that the whole
monopoly be thrown open to the profession in the Court
vernments have never assented. Now, what I wish the
right hon. gentleman to state is, whether we have given of Probate, and also in the Court of Admiralty. (Hear.)
up pretensions which we never made, and which former He wished to know whether his hon. and learned friend
Governments in this country never had asserted ? Is
the Attorney-General would introduce a clause in the
that the nature of the transaction which has taken place ;
: bill to that effict. (Hear.)
or is it that we have abandoned a right which former .
Mr. WARREN hoped such a clause would be intro-
Governments have claimed and insisted upon T If so, I ' du din both bills, in teat of the Court of Probate, and
,
ask him to state clearly what is the pretended right : ce
also in that of the Court of Admiralty. (Hear) He
given up which we have never insisted upon. On the
other hand, if a right which we have claimed and in- ! hoped his hon. and learned friend would reprint the bill,
which would them an opportunity of seeing what
sisted upon, has been abandoned, I wish to know what
;were
thprovons.
i give
that right is ? That question is a plain one. It has
' The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
no refererco to anything at present under negotia- be committed this day.
tion, for the statement of the American Minister was,
that the matter was complete. As nod oubt, accord- .
ENCUMBERED ESTATES (WEST INDIES)
ing to their system of government, the people of the '
ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
lJnited States have by this time been made folly : S nne amendments proposed by the ATTORNEY GENE-
aware of what the transaction is, I think this house 1 NERAL having been considered, they were ordered to be
and the people of this country—interested as they na- read a third time to-morrow.
turally are in the question—have a right to be put upon DIVORCE AND MATRIMONIAL CAUSES ACT
an equal footing as to informat.on upon the subject with AMENDMENT BILL.
the people of the United States. I therefore hope that The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in moving the second
we shall hear an expl, action what the pretended right, reading of this bill, briefly explained its provisions, and
or right we had claimed and abandoned, is. stated that it was not his intention to retain clause 5,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it whicla.had reference to parties residing abroad.
is not for me to inform the house what were the rights After a few words from Mr. HADFIELD and Mr.
contended for by the late Government. (Laughter.) LIZGON, the bill was read a second time.
All I can say is, that when the misunderstadding between V COPYRIGHT OF DESIGNS BILL.
the two Governments occurred in consequence of the The Lords' amendments to this bill were considered
disturbances in the Cuban waters, several controverted and agreed to.
points arose, upon which we cen(ulted the law officers CORRUPT PRACTICES PREVENTION ACT
of the Crown, and upon their opinion as to the legality CONTINUANCE BILL.
or the illegality of our conduct we acted. Tne result On the order of the day being read for resuming the
was that at present matters are in abeyance, and the adjourned debate in committee on the first clause of this
claims are unsettled ; but during the interval that has bill, •
taken place the Government of the United States have Mr. DUNCOMBE hoped the Home Secretary's
made a friendly overture to us, requesting us to prepare proposition for passing this bill merely as a contheu-
or adopt a plan which we think will accomplish the ob- ance measure would be accepted by the house. Let a
jects which both Governments have in view, namely, the good bill be prepared during the recess and referred next
suppression or the discouregement of the slave trade, session, if necessary, to a select committee. He should
without producing those misunderstandings which have support the motion of the hon. and learned gentleman
previously occurred, and which it is so desirable to the member for Sheffield for omitting the first clause,
avoid. Her Majesty's Government have that sugges- which would, in effect, make the bill a continuance bill
tion under consideration, and hope to be able to propose einy,
a plan which will be satisfactory to both countrie', and Lord PALMERSTON said he thought the law should
at the same time obtain the object which the Gov ern- not be allowed to remain in its present unsettled state,
meats of both countries so sincerely desire—the dis- and therefore he would vote for the clause.
couragement of the slave ti ado, Teat plan will shortly M. B. OSBORNE differed from the noble lord. The
be submitted to the Government of the United States. bill was an attempt to legalise bribery and corruption,
With reference to the question of the right hon. member and as such he would decidedly oppose it.
for Bute (Mr. J. S. Wortley), lam afraid that so much Mr. GREER said it was a Corrupt Practice Con-
tinuance Act, and therefore he would vote against it.
business is set down LT Monday that i will be impos - {
Bible to accede to his request, but probably on Tuesday, 1
(Divide.)
or the fellowing day, an opportunity will be given to in- Mr. BRADY opposed the clause.
troduce tee question referred to. Mr. AYRTON said he had suggested the clause, and
Oe the motion for adj iurnment being again put,
, I a
xe
shoped
do the house
ts a s
to wouldthe adoptbgaii t
yi t,
of ase a itn d would Taut leds removep )y
ing
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON said he bad discovered that 1e
it would be necessary to sit to-morrow (Saturday), at for conveyances.
twelve o'clock, for the purpose of forwarding several 1 Mr. CRAWFORD objected to the o'ause, amidst con-
bills a stage. Untied cries of "On, oh," and "Divide."
The motion was therefore witle'rewr. Mr. HOLLAND supported the clause:
CIVIL BILLS ite. (IRELAND) ACT AMEND-
The home then divided-
- MENT BILL. For the clause 94
On the order o the day for the third reading of this
Agaitnt it 66
bill, —2B
• Majority
Mr. J. D. FITZrnERALD said the bill wee so obnox-
sous in principle that, without detaining the house by Theta clause was then agreed to. _
any observation ehe should simply meet the question On clause 3 having been proposed
k e wordthe
e'l
susselertieoand, '
with a direct negative, and divide the house upon it.
wake
lair. HUG ESSEN moved an amendment to leave out
The house divided-
83the effect of which would be to
For the third reading ..
54 Mr. WALPOLE said the amendment, if agreed to,
Against it " and all persons nominated."
Ma grit
The bill was then read a third time, and passed. ' only amendment which he (Mr. Wapolt) introduced in