The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-27 00:00:00

noble baron had done that night, to make a stateme
from which the public might understand that no peculiar
blame attached to him (the illustrious duke) as the had
of the army, and perhaps therefore considered responsi-
ble for the barrack accommodation of the country.
(Hear.) But in making that statement nothing could
be further from his intention than to reflect upon the
noble baron. On the contrary, he believed that leo man
could have been more anxious than the noble baron for
the improvement of the condition of the soldier. He be-
lieved it would be found that the noble baron ba(cld,ao
more in the way of barrack improvement than any
pre-
vious Secretary of State during a similar period. u
In saying that, however, he did not intend any disre-
spect to the noble lord's predecessors ; for the truth was
that in this respect, as in many others, they had been
progressing in the spirit of the age ; and the chances
pr tbably were, that in a few years they would have
fresh demands, and succeeding Secretaries of State
would be called upon to fled ways and means for many
services which at the present moment were not thought
of. Our ancestors bad not intentionally neglected the
condition of our soldiers ; but while everything had
prin:reused to the extent it bad, it would have been mon-
etrous to have left the s idler in the condition be was.
(Hear,) He (the illustrious duke) bad been referred to
to his two capacities, as colonel of the Guards and as the
head of the army. His noble friend had taken away any
cessity be might have had for making any defence of
his conduct as colonel of the Guards. As the noble lord
het so feirly stated, the colonel of the Guards had no
more power to interfere with the state of the barracks
-hart any otner colonel ; and it would be a most im-
proper thing it be had. (Hear hear.) The situation of
colonel of the Guards was a most honourable one, but it
was exactly as that of any other colonel ; and it would
have a most mischievous effect upon the army if it was
theught that he had any special powers. (Hear.) In the
communications which had taken place between the
noble baron and himself, as bead of the army, they bad
often agreed that many things would be desirable, but
they would have placed the Government of the country
in a very false position it they had pressed for those
things without reference to the means at their disposal.
(Hear.) There was a great difference between intro-
ducing estimates and A iding ways and means. One
was the simplest process in the world ; but it was very
difficult to persuade the country to agree to an increased
amount of taxation. (Hear.) He (the illustrious duke)
was very glad that the subject bad been brought for-
ward, because exciting the public interest by discussion
was the only mode in which they cou'd hope to ob
lain additional means for carrying out the wished-for
improvements. With respect to barracks for the Guards,
the noble lord had truly observed that the difficulty was
in finding s'tee. The cost of the barracks was as nothing
compared with that of the land. Some portion of the
want of accommodation bad been caused by the intro-
duction of libraries, reading-rooms, washing-rooms, and
the like. Of course, neless new rooms were provided,
they must be taken from the barrack accommodation.
Of course, however, it was possible, new rooms were
provided ; but even at the present time the introduction
of these libraries had diminished the amount of barrack
accommodation. (Hear.) Again, if they introduced an
improvement in one barrack, they must extend it to all;
because when the soldier found out its value, sod he
very soon would gad it out, he would ask to have it in
every place at which he was stationed. This led to an
enormous expense • aril it was only by spreading it over
a certain number of years that they could expert to per-
fect the Oen. ([Tear.) With regard to the returns moved
for by his noble friend, he should like them to include
the estimates of the lora! authorities, which were the
documents upon whicb the estimates of the Government
were based. F. rtnerly they were sent to the Ordnance-
office without passing through the hands of the Corn-
tusedn-in-Ohief ; but since the new S cretsrysbip of
State had been established it h el been arreereed that
they shoull go first to the Commander-ie-Chief, and
should then be handed by him to the Government.
These original estimates w. uld give the actual wants
of the army more fely than any pui lic document
would do ; they would show the mode in which diffe-
rent items of improvement were valued by the Govern-
ment. The demands madenpou them were always or very
much tenser sums than the Government placed in it- esti-
:, sees; and some portion of them were necessarily post-
p -red. What these should be Was determined not by the
mileary autboritee, but by the military authoritiee in
eoejuection with the Secretary t f State, (Hear.) In
cot:lda-ion, he (the illustrious duke) had only to say that
tae ceroialty approved ef the returns with tee addition he
h e:1 suggested. They would show that his nenle friend
ILA IF), beet, at all remiss in the way in which he bad
applied the resources ~f the country to the improvement
of barracks. (Cheers.)
Tue Ear, of CARDIGAN had had many opportunities
of inspecting barracks in various parts of the kingdom,
and he must say that the opinion which prevailed wi h
regard to the discomforts endured by the troops was an
exaggerated one. Great improvement.a hid already been
introduced. Toe rooms were lied crowded, and married
couples were no longer allowed to occupy the same
ap ei tire ins as unmarried men. (Hear.) The idea which
bad of late become common that soldiers bad nothing to
eat but boiled beef was altogether erroneous ; fttr in most
reel cute the men had baked meat abd potatoes three or
four times a week. (Hear.) He could n;t say that he
approved of the new regulation with regard t i cardeense
In all well regulaled regiment; the rule was to prohibit
spirt-drinkiog in the canteen until the afternoon ; and
too good would accrue from driving the men out of the
bat racks to public-houses. (Hear.) With regard to night
duty, he would remind their lordships that men enlisted
to perform all military services, and amongst those that
of standing sentry was the first. (Hear.)
The Duke of SOMERSET hoped the Government
would not be terrified by considerations of expense from
giving the subject of barrack accommodation their most
serious attention, because he thought there were many
improvements which redght be effected without materi-
ally increasing the burden upon the estimates. At the
same time it hardly became them to grudge the cost of
providing the soldier with decent accommodation, when
they had spent two millions sterling upon the Houses of
Parliament, and when they had filled Westminster-hall
with deigns for mew public offices, which would cost
several millions wore. The other day he happened to
be at the We Liogton B trracks, which were considered
a model. It was three o'clock in the afternoo^, and the
sleeping rooms ought to have been tolerably fresh ; but
the aer was so foul that he could not stay in Lt. He was
told that he Lad no idea how he should have found it if
lie had come in the morning. (Hear, hear.)
Tue Earl of DERBY was sore their lordebips would
not regret the time they had spent in listening to the
speeches of the noble lord and the illustrious duke.b It
was well the country should know that the couse which
had been pursued will regard to the improvement of
the sanitary, moral, and social condition of the soldier
had not been that which many persons had hastily and
rashly assumed. If any one would compare any gentle--
, man's cruntry hotner at the present time with what it
used to be 30 or 40 years ago, he would understand
how great had been the increa-e which had taken place
in the nutnLer of the comforts and conveniences of life.
It was not that the con f,,rts of the soldier bad not lat-
terly been increased, bet that increase was now looked
at from a different point of view. There was an earnest
determination on all hands to look carefully into this
most important subject, namely, the social condition cf
the army; but they must recollect that everything
could not he done at once. Oue of the last act of the
noble baron opposite had been to appoint tour sub-cone-
tnittees, at the. head (1 one of which was a right hon.
gentleman to whose exertions the army owed much,
namely, Mr. Sidney EL rbert ; and her Majesty's Go-
verntuent were waiting fur the reports ed those sub-
committees as to the best manner of carrying out the
recommendations of the sanitary commissiouere. In the
meantime the cemmittees were themselves empowered
to expend a small tutu in the removal of some of the most
glaring defects. (Elea-, bear) When the Government
received their reports, they would no' hesitate to take
steps for carrying them out, and they would not shrink
front making the necessary application to Parliament.
lie deeply regretted to notice the tone of the remarks
which bad fallen from the noble duke oppos te. He (Lord
Derby) was not prepared to defend the expenditure on
the Huu es of Parliament which had taken place, but it
was hardiy true to say that the reason army improve-
ments were delayed was the enormous waste a money
on public buildings. In 1852 he was very near applying
to Parliament for funds for a new Foreign-office, . but
trom that time to this nothing had been done ; and
the noble earl opposite (Lord Clarendon) had never en-
tered the old burloing without alarm, or—quitted it with-
out congratulatieg itimself upon his safety. (Laughter.
With regard to the papers that were moved for, he was
not prepared on the part of the Government to' offer any
objection to them. With regard to the papers la-t men-
tioned in the notice, viz., the correspondence within the
last ten years between different departments of the Gc-
enhe shoull pre fer that they should not be moved
fvoerr,newspectially as, from the manner in which the motion
was worded, it implied that suggestions for the welfare
of the troops had been dist egarded. Now, there was no
doubt that there were many things which were desirable,
but at the same time economy must be looked to to
some extent. No doubt financial difficulties had pressed
upon the department, which had caused some of the pro-
jects to be abandoned. He did not think there was any
objection on the part of either of the departments to the
Production of these papers, but he thought, as this cor-
respondence went back for so longs period, and partook
necessarily to some extent of a private character, that it
would place the departments in an invidious position if
the correspondence were produced.
Lord PANMURE said, with regard to canteens, he
could ouiy say he did not express his own opinions
merely, but the opinions which were expressed by the
committee. In some regiments pains were taken to duets
the canteens at a certain boar, but in many regiments
that was not done. It bad been said that the late Go-
vernment were willing enough to expend a million and a
half over public offices, but they wore not willing to
spend a comparatively small BUM in the erection and al-
teration of barracks. He could only say that the late Go-
vernment never contemplated spending a million and a
half in public offices. Not only had the erection of addi,
tional offices become necessary, but it was a matter of
economy to erect them. A vast expense Was. incurred
o
every year in the hire of buildings En
theywdb ibex% made
con-
duct the public business, and this y
had prevented the necessity
inParliament
large saving by enlarging
neighbourhood of that office
furnished a sum of 40,000/.
theef Ordnance
_hiring buildings
iwnhti he
the exhibition
bad for the last three years
of soldiers' wiv es
of barracks, in order that they
might
with other soldiers, and he
sleeping in the same room
for thennieng
enlargementer leave
d with the Earl pf Darby as to the latter re-
turn; the necessity ( f that eas now obviated, He
quite agree
but as to the first two‘there could bas no objec.
Lion.

Lord DE ROS observed that it was of the greatest
importance that the gnard•rootno should be made com-
fortable and healthy far the wen, and he believed that