The Sun.
London, England, 1804-03-16 00:00:00

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F RIDAY, MARCH 16, 1804..'

put it to the House, if there was any thing grave
or serious in this subjed that could claim their at.
tention. If Government had been right in making
an immense addition to our Land Force, to enable
us to meet the Enemy on our own shores; if Go-.
vernment had been serious in the warning which
they had circulated through all parts of the kingdom ;
if we had been taught to believe that the Enemy
had only waited till their preparations were com-
pleted, and were now only waiting for a favourable
opportunity to cross the Channel ; he would only
ask whether Parliament would acquiesce that such an
augmentation to our Naval Force should be design-
edly suspended so long, and that, when the augmenta.
tion was detettnined upon, so long a period should
be allowed for preparing them as three months
for some, , and six for others ? This was the
object of his second Motion ; it was to ascertain
whether he was or was not founded in the propo.
sition he had advanced, whether an increase in our
vessels teal not attar :tile beferc the period at
which it had been attempted by the Admiralty,
and whether such an interval as three and six
months ought to have been allowed for preparing
them. He had an. additional reason for pressing
this subject, which was, the recollection of what
had been done on repeated .occasions, and in cases
of lighter pressure in the course of last War. He
thought he could state and produce Documents to
prove that at three different periods in the course of
last War, viz. in 1794, in 1797, and in 18ot, it
was found necessary to augment the same onerive
tion of force, that a considerable number of Gun-
' vessels were ordered to he cons, rutted, and that in
the two former of those periods, the vessels were
completed in 8 or 10 weeks, and that at the last
period he had mentioned, vessels of a similar con-
strudion to those which were now ordered, were
completed in 12 or 4 weeks, instead of which three
months were now allowed for some, tend six months
for others. if this fad should turn out to be as he
had stared it, it wotiid induce him on a future day
to move for an Address to His Majesty, praying
that he would order the most effectual measures to
be taken for using the utmost expedition for increase
ing that description of our Naval Force which_ was
the best calculated to encounter the force prepared
-by the Enemy for the Invasion of this Country. His
next Motion Would he for Copies of the Golees given
by the Board of Admiralty for building Gun. vessels
by contra& in 1794, 1797, 180 e, 1803, and 1804 re.
spedively,:witlathe number of the Vessels so order.
ed, the dine of their being contracted for, arid the
time when- they. were compleated. This account
related to the general state. of the Force to which
he had alluded, and would enable the House to com-
pare the number 'of those vessels that were ordered at
those different periods; and in making that comperi.
e'en, the Houseevcold always beer io 11-eo-e1 the &Macs) e
degrees of danger that existed now and at those
periods, and the House would thcn,.have to judge
whether they ought not to take some stepsoo quic-
ken' these preparations. These Motions were
therefore calculated to put the House in possession
of the state of our Naval Defence, and of the means
taken to augment it, with reference to the degree
of danger with which, we were threatened. This
was a subject which would naturally press itself
upon the attention of the House ; its import-
ance was such that no words could state it suffi-
ciently strong, and therefore he would not occupy
their time in attempting to expatiate upon it.—
There was not, he was sure there was not one man
in the House that would not agree with him in
thinking that it cdostituted one of the most -im-
portant objects that could engage .their attention,
inasmuch as it teas intimately connected with the
actual safety of the CoUrory ; upon such a subject it
would heretore be a waste of words to say much.
But there was another consideration connected with
it, which though more remote, was still of great
importance, he meant that supposing (that which
was not (Noy possible but preleable) that the present
contest shetaid be continued for any considerable
length of time, what were our means of maintaining
t,ur Nav;,l Fence upon a permanent footing, through
a long War, upon which depended not only the fate
ano fortune of this Country, but upon which the des-
tiro of Europe and perhaps the world depended ? He
would tot enlarge upon this aubjed, but it certainly
was highly 'deserving of the consideration of that
House to know what means had been adopted to ensure
an accession of new ships in order to maintain
that Naval . superiority which we . now possessed.
Without entering into any detail respecting our
Naval Forte at the beginning of the War, he meant
as far as related to the state of the Ships, he wished
only to remark, that'after ten years of a contest such
as the last, it was impossible for any man to sup.
pose but that our Navy must he in a situation to want
much more considerable repairs than they
.did in the
yearl793, after an interval often years peace, during
which time the most unremitting exertions had been
used to put every ship in a-condition fit for service, so
that at the commencement of the War there were
no less than 120 ships of the line nearly fit for
service. If he were wrong in this statement, he
should soon be detected by granting the Papers. He
did not wish to call for a precise statement of the
amount of our Naval.FOrce at the commencement
pf this War, because, for the reasons he hail stated,
it could not be in so good a condition as it was at
the commencement of the former war ; if, however,
he made this Concession, it must, on the other hand,
be admitted to him, that if we felt and knew that
such was the situation of our Navy, that greater
exertions ought to have been made to repair and
renew it. This proposition rested upon such plain
grounds, that he should only abuse the patience of
the House to argue. it. There were. two methods
by which the Naval Force of this Country
was provided, the first .was by building ships

in the King's Yards, and the other was by build.
ing them in private yards. He believed that
he did not go beyond the fad, when he stated',
that if they were to look to the history of the
Navy, they would find that very near two_thirds
of the ships of the line were built in private yards.
Every man knew that during the War the building
of ships in the King's yards was nearly suspended,
and if it existed at all, it was only in one or two
of the minor ports not much used for repairing. If,
in the course of the last War any great number
of ships were added to the Navy from the King's
yards, it was of ships that were begun antecedent to
the commencement of the War, and out of 26 sail of
the line which were added to the Navy last War, there
were not more than two from the King's yards which
were not begun before the commencement of the
War. From this statement he inferred that at the
commencement of a War, unless we were perfedly
satisfied with the state of the Navy, and that there
no reason to suppose. (ha; w:; should want fresh
ships, that our earliest objed ought to be, to begin to
build vecsels in the Merchants' yards. Now,if he were
not much mistaken (and this was a subject that did
not require secrecy, because it was one that must
attract general observation), from .the year rBol,
from the time 'the present Admiralty came into
office, there had been but two Ships of the Line
contracted for in the Merchants yards. He abstained
from reasoning upon this subject, but he hoped
he had said enough to convince the House of the
necessity of Some Ilapiry upon the Suhjcst. It was
not necessary for him to use any argument to show
that was essential at all times, and especially at
the present, that our Navy ought to be in as good
a condition as it was during the former War ; and
that we aught to omit no opportunity of providing
means for insuring a succession of fresh ships. The
result of what he had stated upon this subject was,
that it appeared, from experience, that more than
two_thirds of our Ships of the Line were built in
private yards; , that experience she wed that in time
of war, building in the King's yards was in a great
degree, if not entirely suspended ; that in the last
wax not more than two Ships were added to the Navy
from the King's Yards, except Those which were begun
before the war ; and lastly, that with a greater want
of a supply of Snips than in any former War, that not
inure than two Ships of the Line had been contraed
for in the Private Yards by the preSent Admiralty.
He had been informed from very good authority,
that there were in the River no less, than tor or 15
docks and slips which ttsed to be employed in
ing Ships, which were at this moment totally un-
occupied. Upon this subjet also he should have
to propose an Address to His Majesty. His next
Motion would be for an account of the Ships of the
Line built from the commencement of the nst War.
to ;Sot, and from that•to-Oe present time, :midi -an
account also of such as were now building, specify-
ing the date of the order for building them, and the
elime when they were expeded to be finished. With
resped to the latter point, via. when they were to
he finished and launched, he should viish for infor-
mation upon that point ; but as some Gentlemen
[night think that it would be a means of giving
information to the Enemy, he would not press
it. His great, objed was to prove that building"
in the private yards was a matter of indispensable
necessity. His next Motion would he for a simi-
lar account of the Ships of the Line contracted for
in the present year, the date of the order for build.
ing them, the places where they were to be built,
and the time they were to be finished. The next
Motion he had to. make was one to which he did not
think any objection could be made. The House
had heard on a former day from his Noble Friend
(Lord CAsToattaAcH) a general statement of our
Naval Force, and a comparison of our present Force
with what it was in the late War. But as far
as he could recolled, that was only a statement of
the number of Ships, without specifying how they
were employed. The next material subjea to
which he wishes to dire& the attention of, the
HOuse, was the number of Seamen that had been ob-
tained. In the former War we had started from a
Peace Establishment of i 6,000 men, whichimme-
diately before the War had been augmented to 18,000
men ; and before the end of the first year of that War,
the number of Seamen amounted to between e and
76,000 men, including Marines. In the present they
started from an Establishment of 50,000 men, and
it should he recollected that Ministers always acted
upon an impression
.that from' hour to hour they
might be engaged in a fresh contest. It should
also be recollected that at the commencement of the
present War, our Commerce was so increased, that
our mercantile shipping had been augmented in a
very large proportion. Under these circutristances
he believed that the number of Seamen was increased
last year from 50,000 to -86,000 men, so that
in the one case nearly five times the number of
Seamen had been procured, and in the other they
had not been doubled. The House would perceive
that he had confined himself to stating the general
nature. of his Motions, and he would not trouble
them further at the present moment. Whether the
whole or only a part of the Papers were granted,
heshould certainly, on another occasion, trouble the
House with a Motion for an Address, such as he had
before alluded to, and which he conceived that con-
siderations of public safety. at this moment would
render it' the indispensable duty of Parliament to
acquiesce in. H:, should now conclude with moving,
“ that there be laid before the House an account of
time number of Ships of the Line, 5o gun Ships,
Frigates, Sloops, Armed Cutters, &c. in commission
on the 3 tst December 1793, the 3oth Sept. I SW,
and the 31st Dec. 1803."
Mr. TIERNEY said, that no man could be more
impressed with the importance of this subject than
he was : But the Motion of the Right Hone Gentle.

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IPRICE SIXPENCE;

man appeared to him to. be one of the most extraore
(Unary he had ever heard, and was brought forward
upan the most extraordinary grcunds. He shou:d
have thought that those who entertained 'the •saile
sentiments which that Right Hun. Gentleman had
always professed, would have abstained from rnoe
tions which could have'no other efred but to coooe
despondency and suspicion throughout the Kitigdoo)
with respeet to our Naval Force. That the Rt. Hon.
Gent. should have made such a motion appeared to
him extraordinary, but it was more so that he should•
have brought it forward without any grounds tvha
ever. For he had founded his Motion merely upen-
his own opinion and judgment, as superior to that
of :he Board of Admiralty. He confessed that
be-
was in general a friend to .Inquiries, when there
were any grounds of complaint made out, but in this
case there was no complaint, for he should he glad!
to know in what girt of the Couotry any discontent
prevailed. (Here there was a cr.) of !fear 1 Hear ! )
Gentlemenmight cry Hear ! Hear ! He was ready
to admit, that if he confined hiunielf to the House
of Commons -there was noise, and the only thing
that astonished him was, that that sh 'old be the
case when the Country was so. quiet. •It had. al ays
been usual to lay. sonic foundation for theselchohof
Motions, to say .that our Convoys had been , ap_
tared, that the Enemy's Fleets had escaped from their
Harbours, or that out Coast had been in-lilted. . But
when it was notorious •thah the Enemy's, Fleets!
were sealed up in their Ports ; when it was un,verallyt
admitted that our Commerce was amply proteoleil•;:
when there was no complaint against.the Admiralty,'
except from a small number of men who were guilty;
of back-bhing and back-sliding ; with that excep_l
tion only, there was, he would maintaine a reefed;
confidence in the wisdom and vigilance of the -ATLI,'
mitalty. He wished •to know how long it ..wasp
since the Right
,Hune Gentleman had changed
mind about Lord ST. VINCENT ? He rememberede
to have heard him in that House pay that .Noble:
Lord the most high and deserved compliments,!!andi
represent him as deserving, the confidence of:thei
Nation. These eulogiums were well descrved,,foto.
there never was a British -Admiral that more ga1...7
lantly fought his way up to his exalted station than:.
Lord ST. VINCENT had done, and he now wished to'
know what he had done to forfeit his claims teepubea
lic confidence ? He knew that Noble Lord well, and-
lie was,sure that no hon Ours, no emoluments, 'would;
compensate him for the loss of the public con::
lidence in the hour of danger. The House '-were
called upon to presume that the,re, was a want
of professional skill in the First Lord of the Admi-
ralty, which the abundant talents A4the.Rigiit Hone
Gentleman were able to Supply. ',He llad the,greatesg
opinion of the talents of that. Right-Hon.,,,Gueulea
man, particularly as a Volunteer; and •he -haaladtvezi
heard ti'hn ~!ec)aho Upon „Milieuhy topieooebititgerie---4
pleasure ; but he thought the Right Hone-Genslrmiirt
might content himself_With setting t'he L.Old,Setsvie*
to rights, without undertaking to ibstrud
VI NC ENT in his own profession. • The licit Wrap,*
that Lord ST. VI NC ENT did nutoaetitipath.:.irtr. thin
alarm which the Right Hun. Gentienian felt. -_,BUt,
allowing the Right Hon. Gentleman the privilege.
of being in a panic if he pleased, it surely' did hot
follow, that the firmness of Lord ST. V I NC ENT Mai
to be blamed.. With all due deference to the Right
Hon. Gentleman., it did not exanly foiliaw, that
because he said a larger Naval Force was necessarrYi
that therefore a larger Naval Force was necessary.,
—lf the present motion for Papers was agreed
to, the consequence must be, that an Inquiry.
mui be instituted into the whole of the c.h Mut
iof dte Admiralty ; - and he would ask Gentle,
men, whether, .upon the mere opinion of that Righe
Hon. Gentleman, without any satisfactury grounds
being laid before the House, they would, under the
present circumstances, take such a number of .naval
men front their duty as would be necessary, if this
Inquiry was instituted, and Whether they could
now deihate sufficient time to it ? He' was sure the.
House could not consent to such a proposition; and
be believed that it never entered into the head of
man to propose such t one under such circumstances
before. With respect to what the, Right lion.,
Gentleman had said about the 23 Gunboats, he
certainly saw no reason to oppose that Motion, and
he had also no objection to consent to the account
of the number of the Seamen now in the Service,
though if the Right Hon. Gentleman only wonted-
that account for the purpose of making comparisons .
with former times, he did not exaaly see .hibly
that could improve our System of Defence, which
the Right Honourable Gentleman professed to be
his sole objeEt. If
‘these accounts were granted!
he ,believed there would appear to be a greater
degree of Force now , employed than was supe
posed.. It would appear that the number of
King's Ships in Commission would be about ;co,
of Trinity House Frigates 9,,0f Lighters, Laura:ales;
and other small Craft, 373, many of which were
much superior to the Gun-boats of which. the Right
Hon. Gentleman was so enamoured; East lndiarnen
19, and a Flotilla composed of Vessels ready for
sea, of 62+ Vessels, making altogether a Naval
Force of upwards of 1503 Vessels. Having equip-
ped Such a force since the commencement of the
• War, he thought the Noble Lord might be excused
about the twenty-three Gun-boats, even if there
was any ground of blame upon that teobjeCto He
hoped he might be perunitted to say, that Lord Sr.
VINCENT, with ail his ignorance and all his tailings,
'might be presumed to know something about Ma
own profession ; it was not very absurd to suppose,
that the Noble Lord might have some notion at
what time these Vessels might be wanted; it ape.
pealed that in January he thunght that these •Vessels
would nut be wanted for three months ; the 'three
months were now very nearly elapsed, and it di3
not appear that the Noble Lord 'was very wrong