The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON' WEDNESDAY EVENT NO, MARCH 17, 1858

ther time for the consideration of so important a bill,
which had only been placed in their lordships' hands
that day. (Hear.)
Lord ST. LEONARDS acceded to the suggestion,
and the second reading was postponed until Monday
next.

Hodge in Sardinia, and asked if her Majesty's Govern•
t hobjection
ptroe
hh
ei sn
ioa
nt i n
ofg tl‘hier. circumstances
innconnectedeexnt had
w
what a
nwas the nature of the correspondence that
had passed between the Sardinian and English Govern-
ments in reference to it
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
There is a treaty and extradition between the French and
Sardinian Governments, under which Mr. Hodge had
been arrested in Sardinia on some allegations connected
with the late attempt on the life of the Emperor of the
French. His person was demanded to be surrendered to
the French Government ; but it appears that by the
treaty Sardinia could not comply with that request with-
out previously obtaining the consent of the English
Government. Under these circumstances a demani
was made to her Majesty's Government that Mr. Hodge
should be surrendered by the Sardinian Government to
France. Her Majesty's Government, in consequence,
requested that the papers seized on Mr. Hodge's person,
which were the foundation of the demand, should be sent to
England, which was accordingly done, and her Majesty's
Government, after having examined them, and being of
opinion they were not sufficient to warrant the com-
mittal of Mr. Hodge by a magistrate in England
—(cheers)—we have declined to consent to the demand
of the French Government. (Loud cheers.) There has
been public statements made relative to the dangerous
state of Mr. Hodge's health, and that he was subjected
to very severe imprisonment. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment instructed our Minister at Turin to inquire into the
matter, and place himself in communication with Mr.
Hodge. That gentleman did so, and found Mr. Hodge was
suffering from a pulmonary complaint, and he had de-
manded from the Sardinian Government that Mr.
Hodge's imprisonment should cease as soon as their
forms of law would permit. (Cheers.)
Mr. HO RSMAN asked if the correspondence between
the respective Governments was concluded ; and, if co,
if the right hon. gentleman would lay it on the table of
the house?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
correspondence was very slight, having been chiefly
carried on by telegraph, and he thought it better to de •
cline laying it on the table of the house. (Hear, hear.)
The subject then dropped.
VOTE OF THANKS TO MR. HALLIDAY.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I now
rice to move that the resolution of thanks which this
house arrived at on the Bth of Feb. last be read. My
object in raking that motion is that we may insert in
the resolution the name of a very distinguished gentle-
man—the Governor of Bengal, whose name by an un-
happy inadvertence was omitted on that occasion. The
thanks of the house were offered to the Governor-Gene-
ral and to the Governors of Madras and B imbay, but
the name of the Hon. F. J. Halliday, the Lieutenant-
Governor of Bengal, was omitted. Now, lam sure the
house will feel that that gentleman has been placed, in
consequence of what may almost be termed a clerical
error, in an extremely painful position. It is not merely
that he has been deprived of the highest compliment that
one of her Majesty's subjects can receive—the thanks of
Parliament fur public cervices—but the omission of his
name seems to cast a slur upon his name and reputation
which never could have been intended. (Hear, hear.) I
do not anticipate, therefore, the slightest opposi:ion to
the proposition that I am now going to make—that the
resolution of the Bth of Feb. be read, and that in his doe
position in that resolution, which would be immediately
after Lord Elphinstoue, the name of the Hon. F. J. Hal-
liday, the Lieutenant-Governor of Bengal, be inserted,
so that he may receive in a proper manner the thanks of
the House of Commons for his public services during the
revolt in India. (Hear, hear.) But since I gave that al-
most formal n tice several amendments to which I must
call the attention of the house have been placed upon the
votes. There is one amendment by the hon. and gallant
member for Westminster, to include the names of Major
General Mansfield, Brigadier-General Chamberlain, Bri-
gadier-General Hope Grant, and Brigadier-Gent ral Wal-
pole and, in addition to the fourth resolution of the 8-,h
of iebruary, the hon. and gallant gentleman requests
us to record the thanks of the house as eminently
merited by those distinguished men who were com-
manding officers, and who lost their lives during
the revolt in India. The hon. and gallant member
for Southwark also proposes a vote of thanks to Sir
William Peel for his services in India. I trust there will
be no difference of opinion as to the course which we
ought to take upon these propositions. I can assure the
hon. and gallant gentleman who made them that there
is no one in this house who more appreciates the services
or more deplores the loss of these eminent men than my-
self. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, when I had the honour of
addressing the house upon the original resolution, as
proposed by the noble lord the member for Tiverton, I
called upon the house not to forget at that moment of
thanks and congratulation the names of the illustrious
departed, and I even took the liberty of expressing my
regret that rules, the wisdom of which experience has
proved, prevented our inserting the name of Sir William
Peel, whose romantic exploits recall the brilliant achieve-
inente of Sir Sidney Smith. (Cheers.) I, therefore, need
not assure the hon. and gallant members that there is no
want of respect or of sympathy on our part with the
deeds and character of the eminent persons mentioned
in their respective amendments. Bus there are certain
rules which have always been observed in regulating our
votes of thanks, and from which, I think, it would be
most unwise for us to depart. Indeed, when we have
passed the line, I do not exactly see where we are to
stop. (Hear, hear.) On reading the names included in the
amendments I am sure, brilliant as they are, I could add
to theta EOM not less distinguished. Why should
the name of Greathed, for example, or of Adrian Hope,
be omitted ? (Hear, hear.) The truth is, however, that
the services of these and other distinguished officers are
acknowledged in that general resolution which thanks
the rest of the officers of her Majesty's army for their
gallant services. (Hear, hear.) Perhaps the house will
permit me to add that I think the thanks of Parliament
should not be proposed except after great deliberation,
and then only by the existing Government. (Hear, hear.)
They should be proposed in both houses, and with such
a concurrence of opinion that there could be no doubt
of their being unanimously passed. I hope, therefore,
that the hon. and gallant gentlemen, feeling that
the house appreciates equally with themselves the
services of the eminent persons whom they have named,
will not press to a division the propositions which they
have placed upon the paper, I am certain with the best
intent.° s, but I think with less consideration than so
important a question would require. (Hear, hear.) 1
hops that nothing so painful may occur as that we
should have a division upon a subject of this kind. The
rules which have been laid down are the result of the
experience of long years ; the practice that has been
adopted has been sanctioned by the most eminent men
who have attempted to control the business of Parlia-
ment ; and I trust, therefore, that the hon. and gallant
gentlemen will be satisfied with an expression cif their
respect and
sthioeny, sympathyhbativt e withw will
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India, the
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officers
thanks
the name of Lord
Canning 773,1 objected to by the present Chancellor of
the Exchequer on the ground that the insertion of that
noble lo7d's name might be supposed to imply an unqua-
lified approl,ation of all the policy he had pursued since
he bad been in ludic. Subsequently, when it was shown
that the vote of thanks was confined to the exertions
used to suppress the mutiny, the right hon. gentleman
gave way, and consented that the resolution should pass
nemine centradieente. Now, as it would be impssible,
when the Indian B 11 came to be debated, and when the
causes which led to the insurrection came to be consi-
dered, not to bring forward some of the conduct (if
Mr. Hall day, he only protested now, as the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer formerly did, against being
supposed that, by aseert;ng to the present motion, he
was precluded from making whatever observations be
should feel to be neesesary when the Indian Bill came
before the house.

EAST INDIA. LOAN BILL.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH, in moving the
second reading of this bill, said their lordships were well
aware that many pecuniary difficulties had arisen from
the present unfortunate state of affairs in India, and
the object of the bill was to enable the East India Com-
pany to raise by bonds and debentures the sum of
8,000,000/., and to give the company power at a future
period to raise other sums for paying off such bonds and
debentures as might be thus raised. There was an ex-
tremely useful clause in the bill, requiring a full account
of all the liabilities and debts, under different heads, of
the East India Company to be laid before Parliament for
the present and the next year. On the 31st January last
the East India Company had in cash the sum of
734,000/. ; in Exchequer-bills and bonds, 1,809,0001.,
besides 285,000/. from other sources, making a total of
2,819,000/. Their premises in Leadenhall street and
other places were stated to be worth 547,0001., and their
unshipped stores, steamers, &c., were valued at more
than 300,000/., making together about 951,000/.
Against the amount in hand there was an actual debt
0f„.9,837,000/. On looking at the receipts for the l,st
year, he found considerable sums which could not arise
during the present year. To meet the expenditure of
next year, which would amount to 5,670,0007., the corn-
oany bad not mere than 1,000,000/. ; ani it was there-
i,re absolutely necessary to increase their borrowing

. _
powers. At present they had an unexhaneded borrowing
power to the extent of 1,000,0001., so that after the
passing of the present bill their borrowing powers would
reach 9,000,000/. He regretted that the la' e Government
had acquiesced in the suggestion for limiting the bor-
rowing powers in the bill t...) 8,000,0001. Although the
Elst India Company had some difficulty in meeting their
preser.t payments, there was not the smallest doubt as
to their ability to meet every demand upon them. With
regard to the state of affairs in India, he believed that
by the end of the present month the commander-in-chief
would have taken possession of Lucknow. (Hear.) He
had no doubt that the bands of rebels who had congre-
gated there would by that time have bees driven out
by a fire unthr which no man could live. (Hear.) After
the commencement of April in his opinion there
would be no considerable force of the rebels remaining
in a body. No doubt for some time there would be de-
sultory and preda•ory movements, and great necessity
would exist for strenuous exertions to pui-, them down
and restore that country to a state of tranquillity. But
he trusted that by the beginning of April our troops
would be found in the palaces of Lucknow, and that no
large bodies of mutineers would be found acting to-
gether. (Hear.)
Lord MONTEIGLE said he intended to make some
observations during the progress of the bill, but would
defer them until after the production of the returns for
which he had moved.
Earl GRANVILLE expressed his satisfaction at the
prospect which the noble earl held out as to the state of
affairs in India.
The bill was then read a second time.
PRIVATE BILLS.

Lord REDESDALE moved that no private bill should
be read a second time after Tuesday, the 20th of July
next ; that no bill confirming any provisional order of
the Board of Health, or authorising any enclosure of
lands under special report of the Enclosure Commis-
sioners of England and Wales, or for confirming any
scheme of the Charity Commissioners for England and
Wales, should be read a second time after Tuesday, the
20,h day of July next; that when a bill should have
passel this house with amendments, these orders should
not apply to any new bill sent up from the House of Com-
mons, which the chairman cf committees should report
to the house was substantially the same as the bill so
amended.
The motion was agreed to.
OPERATIONS IN INDIA—(VOTE OF THANKS )
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH moved that the
first resolution of their lordships, giving a rote of
thanks to Lord Canning and the other high official
persons in India, on the Bth February, be read, for
the purpose of including in that resolution a vote of
thanks to the Hon. Frederick James Halliday, Lieut.-
Governor of Bengal. He believed that the omission in
the resolution proposed by the late Government was
entirely accidental. (Hear.) Mr. Halliday, who was
a civilian, had done extremely good service iu India, in
the preparation of the commissariat supplies and dawk
conveyances, and had given the utmost satisfaction to
all persons with whom he had to deal in the great pro-
vince of Bengal. The day beforeyes►.erday`a paper came
into his hands containing the representations of various
officers as to the extremely satisfactory arrangements
which had been made by Mr. Halliday. An Engli,-h-
-man, on landing in India, was seldom satisfied with the
prepar'ations for his reception. Quite the contrary. But
in the paper to which he had referred the arrangements
wade by Mr. Halliday were described as "all good,"—
•• everything g,,ud,"—" everything was arranged to our
entire satisfaction,"—" a►ll in good condition,"—" suffi-
cient quantity,"—''good quality," "arrangements
quite perfect,"—" rations excellent,"—" the men re-
ceived every possible attention." It was a very great
merit on the part of a public officer to provide for the
troops and give satisfaction under circumstances of so
much difficulty, and it was nothing but justice to make
a► proper ackoovilediiment of such services. (Hear.) He
wished to take that opportunity of stating to their lord-
ships that her Majesty had been graciously please,' to
declare her intention of conferring a baronetcy o❑ the
son of the late Sir IT. Lawrence, and that it was the in-
tention of the Court of Directors to propose to the Court
of Proprietors the grant of an annuity of 1,0001. a-year.
(Cheers.)
Lord PANMURE, in cordially seconding the propo-
sition which had just been made, said that the reason of
the omission of Mr. Halliday's name had been accu-
rately stated by the noble earl opposite. There could
be no doubt that Mr. Halliday had done a great deal
towards the success of the movement of the troops of
India, but many of the acts for which he had received
credit had been the consequence of the excellent arrange-
ments of Lord Canning. He had heard with great satis-
faction the announcement of her Majesty's intention to
honour the son of Sir H. Lawrence, and of the vote in-
tended to be proposed by the Court of Directors. He
was sure the country would rej )ice in the payment of
such a tribute to the memory of one of the best servants
of the country, and one of the moat loyal and eminent
of her Majesty's subjects. (Cheers.)
The motion was then put and agreed to, and their
lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF CONINIONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the cl4air at 4 o'clock.

notice, but be had expressed his opinion when the late
Government was in office that the number of officers
thanked was too limited, and that officers of lower rank
than those who were thanked had performed very signal
services. The right hon. gentleman had adverted to the
difficulty, if the house went below a certain rank in
naming officers in votes of thanks, of drawing the line
where to stop, but he would remind the house that there
WAS a time when votes of thanks were reserved for ge-
neral officers of high command, and the line had been
gradually extended to other ranks in the army. How-
ever, he would leave the matter in the hands of the right
hon. gentleman hoping that he would take it into his
serious consideration.
Mr. NISBET, as a personal friend of Mr. Halliday,
who had been under his immediate direction in India,
bore testimony to the gjeat abilities of that officer, whose
success be thought afarded the best proof of his merit.
(near, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I entirely concur with the

of it, because it would now range under the head of
acknowledged savings, and as such would form part of
the consolidated fund. [Sir G. C. Lewie expressed his
dissent.] The right hon. gentleman shakes his head, but
I have the highest authority for believing that he is in
error—the authority of a gentleman who occupied the
position whioh I now fill, and which was recently so
worthily occupied by the right hon. gentleman. I can-
not, therefore, relinquish the opinion which I have ex-
pressed, but whether it be correct or not, I hope the
house will not disapprove the course we are taking—
viz., that where there is a clear deficiency of 500,006/.,
we prefer to come to Parliament for a vote to supply
that deficiency. (Hear, hear.)
Sir G. C. LEWIS—If it is distinctly understood that
what is awed upon the other votes shall not be trans-
ferred I have not the smallest objection to the course
that is being taken, but what I object to is that there
should uneeces,arily be an increase of 500,0001. in the
veto for the army, because, if a saving equivalent to that
'urn is made upon pay and provisions, then, notwith

Chancellor of the Exchequer that the duty of selecting -- etre _ -
standing what the right hon. gentleman says, I appre-
the officers whose names should be proposed to Parl.a- hend it will be (elite competent to the Government,
rnent in the motion conferring on them the high honour under the Appropriation Act, to transfer that sum to
of a vote of thanks is best vested in the Executive other items. Ft r example, they may spend that sum
Government, who are the most fully aware of the rela- in barracks or fortifications.
Mr. HAMILTON said that if there was any surplus
tive claims of all those who may come under their eon it would be put fur war las e saving in the ordinary ways
sideration, and who also are the best judges whether it and mear et.
would be expedient to depart in any case from those Sir F. B aRING expressed his perfect concurrence in
general rules which have hitherto guided Parliament in the course the Government were pursuing. They had
the expression of their thanks. I think that on the pre- laid down the rule strictly, and be hoped the house
sent occasion it would be best for my gallant friend not would hold them t i it. (Hear, hear.)
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that the late Govern-
to press the vote of which he has given notice. Wit", ment had taken a large surplus of above half a million
respect to the question about Mr. Halliday, my hon• voted for one service, and applied it to another, but
friend the member for Guildford has correctly stated the the present Government had pursued a more constitu-
circumstances of the case. The vote of thanks was cern- tional course. (Hear, hear.) He thought it was the duty
municated beforehand by the President of the Board of
of this house to limit the powerof Government, under
the 27th clause of the Appropriation Act, which gave
Control to the two Chairs. It did not contain the name
them in general terms the power to apply surpluses
of Mr. Halliday because it did not appear to us that ac- without naming to what amount. They might take a
cording to the words in which the resolution was put his million under that clause and so apply it. He (Sir H.
peculiar position brought him within the scope of the Willoughby) thought there ought to be some limit to
vote, The draught of the motion was returned by the this power. He thought the limit should be 50,0001., or
at all events some specified amount.
Chairs without any suggestion that Mr. Halliday's Mr. CARDWELL said the right hon. gentleman
name should be inserted. Some time afterwards my (Mr. Disraeli) deserved great credit for the course he
hon. friend the member for Guildford (Mr. Mangles) had.. onthis occasion. He hoped it would be a
stated to me what he has just represented to thepursued
for
future
precedent Governments.
house—that there were certain circumstances con- The report was received.
nected with the peculiar duties which Mr. Halliday •
WAYS AND
into Committee NS.
had per f wened relative to military arrangements
The house then resolved itself
Bengal which, in his opinion, and in the opinion of the
ways and Means—Mr. FITZROY in the chair.
Directors of the East India Company, entitled that gen-
tleman to the thanks of this house. I pointed out to On the vote of 500,0001. for the deficiencies in the
the hon. gentleman—as also did my right hon. friend militia estimates of last year,
(Mr. V. Smith)—the difficulty and inconvenience which Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to call the eaten
from revising a vote that had been adopted by tion of the right hon. gentleman opposite (Sir C. Lewis)
Parliament ; but I stated that if the Chairs would offici-
Control totne
wealasugsieveinnto ppthaeAly pptswoorprlioastimononAscynvuotriedderfowrhoicnhe
of
ally ,
and would recommend that a proposition for
communicate their view of the matter to the Board power
purpose to other purposes, it might be entirely different,
a vote of thanks should be submitted to Parliament, we for instance, under it Government might take army
should be ready to give due consideration to such a re- money and apply it for navy purposes. He had no doubt
commendation. It appears that a recommendation on such was not the intention of the framers of the claute,
the subject has been made to the present Government, hat he wished the right hon. gentleman to state the cir-
and as they have thought fit to adopt it, I certainly am cumstances under which that clause was introduced, and
not going to object to the vote now proposed. whether it was taken from any previous act ?
General CODRINGTON thought the rule laid down Sot C. LEWIS said that the explanation was an ex-
with the apparent consent of the leaders of both sides of tremely simple one. There was a dissolution of Parlia-
the house, that the executive Government ought on ment last year in the middle of the session, which of ne-
their responsibility to determine to what persons the cessity disturbed the continuity of the estimates and the
thanks of Parliament should be proposed, was one which ordinary course of proceeding. They had then referred
it was most desirable to observe ; and he would not back to 1841, when a similar dissolution took place, and
have said a word had not the hon. and gallant member had followed exactly the precedent set them by the Go-
fer Westminster (Sir D. L. Evans) given notice of his vernment of that day, and the clause to which the hon.
intention to move the thanks of the house to several baronet referred was taken from the act then passed. It
should, however, be remembered that this clause '.did
nd in his motion. He (General
Codrington) did act wish to enter into any discussion not enable Government to apply surpluses to any other
object than those enumerated in the 27th section of the
officerswweitrhe r
mentioned
regard wereo named
tin those
the
names,heon.
andbut, gallantas ev
hact.
sera
member'sl brigadiers
m o.
tion, he thought it right to remind the house that there The vote was then agreed to, and also a vote of
were other brigadiers who had led assaults at Delhi ; 10,000,0001. towards making good the supplies out of
that there was
dead, he might mention—General Barnard, who had The house then resumed.
a general officer whose name, as he was the consolidated fund.
for some time commanded the forcer before Delhi, and MARINE MUTINY. BILL.
in several actions ; and that there was also Major-General This bill was read a third time.
Windham, under whose command one of the brigadiers MUTINY BILL.
mentioned in the gallant officer's motion served, to On the order of the day for the second reading of the
whom the thanks of Parliament had not been proposed. Mutiny Bill,
(Hear, hear.) He had merely risen to say that if the Mr. BAXTER called the attention of the house to a
proposal of the hon. and gallant member for West- most injurious alteration, so far as . Scotland was con-
minster had been brought forward he (General Codring- cerned, which had been made in this act at the end of
ton) would have moved the addition of other names last session, when most of the Scotch members had re-
to the resolution. He agreed, however, in the pro- turned to their homes. Before that time almost every
priety of the principle that the Government should householder in Scotland was subject to the billeting eye-
upon their responsibility, submit to the house the names tern, which was a grievance almost intolerable, and in•
of the officers to whom they considered thanks ought to
stead of devising a proper remedy for this, the Govern-
be voted.
ment, in August last, assimilated the law in Scotland to
Colonel SYKES said that, had the hon. and gallant that in England, and threw the whole system of billets
member for Westminster persevered with his motion, he ing upon innkeepers, although there was really nothing
should have felt it his duty to move the addition of an• in common between the two countries in this respect.
other officer's name. (A laugh.) He alluded to Majer- It was his (Mr. Baxter's) intention to have taken the
General Lester, commanding the Bombay army it the sense of the house on this motion. (Hear.) He did not,
Southern Mahratta State, who, with 100 European however, wish to give any ground for a charge of fact
troops bad contrived to preserve that province in tran- tious opposition, and therefore, under present eircum-
quility and security amid the symptoms of conspiracy stances, he (should not divide the house, but he
and mutiny which were manifested around him. hoped the subject would be fully investigated. In
Capt. VIVIAN found, on reference to a book which Montrose, there was a population of 15,000 per-
recorded the votes of thanks passed to the army en va- sons, and of that number 33 were publicans, and
rious occasions that in some instance as many as 14, 15? for two months last autumn a whole regiment of
16, and even 24 officers had been included in the votes, and militia, consisting of about 800 men, were billeted on
that all officers. in command of brigades had 'invariably been these unfortunate innkeepers. No less than 35,963
thanked. It appeared that when a vote of thanks woe passed billets were issued during the months of October and
in 1312 to officers who had commanded at Salamanca, November, being equivalent to a tax of 2241. 13,. 4d..
the names of seven officers were omitted, and among them, upon each innkeeper. One man paying a rent of 1701.
singularly enough, was that of Marshal Beresford ; but a
-year was paying at the rate of 1331. 11g. 63. for the
in February, 1813, an amendment, iccludiug the seven accommodation of militia, and some of these poor pub-
omitted names, was proposed and adopted. He did not lfcans bad actually to sell off their effects to avoid this
wish to say anything in the slightest degree disparaging cruel infliction, and were entirely ruined. (Hear, bear.)
with regard to the gentleman who was the subject of the In Edinburgh, the state of things was worse. Some of
vote before the house, but he thought if it was a slur to the publicans there had thousands of billets issued to
omit the name of that gentleman from the vote lately them. This was a matter which demanded the serious
adopted by the house, the omission of the names of offi- consideration and prompt interference of the Govern-
cars who had commanded brigades before Delhi, and in
other parts of India, was quite as much a slur upon merit. (Hear, hear.) He would put it to the Govern-
them. In his opinion this was especially the case with ment' whether this whole system of billeting was not a
remnant of barbarism, injurious to military discipline,
i regard to General Barnard, who had commanded the and destructive of domestic peace. These were solid
army before Delhi for some time, and to other officers
who had lost their lives in the struggle. He hoped her ought to be immediately redressed
grievances which
i --
(hear, hear)—and f no remedy was granted it would be
Majesty's Government would take this subject into their
his duty, in the conrseof the session, to bring the matter
consideration, and that, acting upon the precedents to before the
House of Commons. (Hear,
which he had referred, they would include in the votes Mr. A. KINNAIRD said he wished hear.)
d to add his en-
of thanks the names of brigadiers and of officers holding treaty to that of the hon. member for Montrose, that
independent commands•
this subject might be taken into the early consideration
Mr. ELLIOT observed that, in his opinion, Lord of the Government. There was in Scotland every desire
Elphintleo e had deserved the thanks of Parliament, not
to afford facilities to pass troops, but the mode in which
merely for his civil services, but also for the admirable i this was done at present amounted to a great grievance,
military arrangements which he had made at Bombay,
which by a little inquiry and consideration might, he
and he believed it was on that ground that his name hadv
thought, easily be removed. He concluded by suggest-
been included in the former vote.
isg teat a committee should bo appointed to investigate
The motion was then agreed to. the subject.
SUPPLY.
Mr. BUCHANAN raid that the injustice of the pre-
The report of the committee of supply was then sent billeting system was so obviousi that it hardly required
brought up by Mr. FITZROY. any further notice to prove that it was a grievance which
The first vote, 500,0001. for the militia, having been ought to be remedied. If it costa certain soul per night
read,
Sir G. C. LEWIS said—l wish to ask for some should
that
planation from the Government in addition to that munity. It was a gross injustice. (Hear, hear.) Why
which has already been given with reference to this vote. should this particular class of tradesmen be exposed to
The house will remember that last year the army esti- be plundered by a lawless soldiery ? (Hear, hear.) It
mates were voted before the news of the Indian mutiny was a very great annoyance to have these men coming
arrived, and the votes of men, and for pay and pro- wrargling about the money welch they were to receive.
visions, were taken on the supposition that the ordinary (Hear.) He noticed that in the report of the sanatory
number of troop would he sent to India during the state of the army the mortality was stated to be greater
year. After the army estimates had been voted in the army than it was in other classes of the corn-
news of the Indian mutiny was received, and it munity, and no wonder, for these soldiers having
hecorne necessary to transfer an unusual number wrangled till they got as much money as they could,
of men to India, tie effect of this proceeding went and spent it in low haunts, and thus got into a state
being provisions of the regiments sent of health from which they never fully recovered. If this
to India thatweredia h()
providedpayand
by the East India Company, in- 43. per night were devoted to the purpose, a very good
defrayed from the army estimates. It place might he provided in Edinburgh, and justice would
becameiecessary for the Government to bring in a be done to all parties ; but he could not conceive of a
also
oad of being
bill to enable them to embody the militia, and a vote of greater injustice than that some four or five hundred out
200,0001. was taken for this purpose. At the same time of a large population should be victimised. (Rear.)
a statement was furnished to the Treasury by the War Mr. RIDLEY complained that the publicans were
Department, that, although the estimated expense of out of pocket by complying with the net. When troops
the embodied militia would exceed 200,0001., , there were marching 'through the country, billeting perhaps
would neveretheless be a saving upon other branches of could not be altogether done away with, but he would
the army estimates, in consequence of the great number
and that therefore the sum which bad -ei ter A P
be satisfied if the present Government would give the
of men who would be tran ferred to India, and the re- same assurance 1.8 the late Government, viz., that it
yfor the army estimates would probably Mr. '''' ''
'''''''
.
payment of whose expenses was to be expected from should be resorted to as little as possible. o
shthueeffieocceovrofoT supported the proposition to refer this
iptreadtnhe service of the army during the 1 subject to a select committee, because he was sure that
Now, I had not heard before I left office whether
Year' 1 such a step would give very great satisfaction. At
that anticipation was likely to be fulfilled. I had Liverpool e- had th v good barrack accommodation, and
from this burden'.
therefore the town was excnerated
not been informed that any supplementary vote
General CODRINGTON said it was settled by the
would be required for the army estimates. The
late Government that the lays of England and Scotland
right honourable gentleman the Secretary for War in
should be assimilated on this point.
proposed yesterday, however, in committee of supply,
Scotland the same means of accommodatinghthe soldier
an additional vote of 500,0001. for the expenses of the
that there was in England, especially in the more popub-
embodied militia. That vote was agreed to, and it was
lons parts of England, It was no very muc
500,0001., and that
explained en the part of the Government that there was
better for the soldier that he should be in barracks ; and
a deficiency inwas certainly not fair that the sum allowed should not
it
the
c oanrsqu
en estimatest l
consequently 500,0001.
to t h emore eaten:th aoof
be proportionate to the expense incurred ; but they
the sum voted iast year would be required for the see- could not h •it the present state of things give up the power
vice of the present year. I don't doubt that that state-
ment wan correct,
of regiments transferred to of quartering
.soldiers where they could be lodged and
fed when moving about the country.
am desirous of knowi gwhat will be done with the large
but before the report is agreed to I
saving which must en- l accrue from the number Colonel NORTH said that it was as hard for Ireland
1 as it was for England ; but there must be some provision
mates furnished by the W Department l the last sus tier. infor troops when marching about the country.
believe Mr ELLIOT said there was not a Scotch member in
sion, and which the Treasury that time were led to "
at
soarllnydia, and whether the esti-
the house who would not agree with the objections
correct, have proved incorrect.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—After ; •
whicha had been made against the present system for it
was grievance which was felt severely throughout the
the army estimates were voted last year the house will whole of Scotland, and it would be a great boon to that
recollect that a hill for empowering the embodiment of country if the Government would carefully consider the
the militia was passed as late as the 22d of August. The
sion which was the case, and mode of remedying the
matter awl take some steps to ascertain the real state of
consequence of that bill being passed is that the pious- . what was the best
a-iinetted evil.
Mr. BLACKBURN said, as a Scotch member, he felt
merit of the railitia—namely, 200,0001., was exceeded by bound to say that he did not see how the billeting
made in the estimates for the embodi-
the sum of 500,0001., the whole expenditure under this system could be done without. He did not see that
that we were only
head having amounted to 700,0001. There was therefore, there c mild be a better plan than to quarter the solsdieforar
a clear deficiency of 500,0001., and we have thought at the public-houses, which were open at all hours a
the purposes of trade. It was by no means. so g
aar iamen ary course grievance to have soldiers billeted on public houses as on
asking the house to vote that sum without seeing who- private houses.
taking P I tin
titer we could under the Appropriation Act, by availing Mr. COLEBROOK said that many of the Scotch
ourselves of surpluses in other items in order te meet publicans had not the means of lodging
.the men
deficiencies, find other means for obtaining that supply. billeted upon them, and had to provide lodgings else-
(Hear, -
(Hear, hear.) It is our opinion that, although under the where, which pressed particularly hard upon
)themh. e
Appropriation Act there is a power to apply surpluses Government could readily meet the evil, either y p.ro-
to meet deficienc'es, that is a power which ought only viding proper barracks for the troops, or else by taking
to be exercised by a Minister at a moment of emergency the simple course or paying these persons certain sums
and certainly ought notto be t xercised when Parliament on account of the expenses to which they arc put. He
is sitting—(aear, hear)—and when, therefore, you can suggested that the hon. and gallant member the Minis-
apply to Parliament in a straightforward manner. for for War should take the subject into his careful con-
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the other sources to sideratien.
He dad
the
don Thure-
'
which the right hon. gentleman has referred ae pre- General PEEL said he. would do so, but the only
Viably mnpplyirg means equal in amount to this pledge be could give them was, that the subject should
500,000/., or more, from other military votes, I receive hie earnest attention•
shall be very glad if eventually that turns out to be day next to receive a deputation on lo sus jec from
the case ; lout it is impo.sible that the account of this Edinburgh. He admitted the hardships of the billeting
price of provisions, 'he sum
saving can be concluded in time for us to form any system. The hardship varied from year to year, fen with
opinion at present as to what may be the amount of the all the fluctuations in the
i the difficulty It was inn-
saving which may be effected under that head. If, how- allowed had remained the ;trite sinc_e. 1830.
.Vhat waa's
ever, the amount of that saving be equal to the 500,0001., the best mode of dealing wi
or even greater, we should not be able to avail ourselves possible for him at the present moment to eay. He could

only repeat that he would carefully consider the matter.
The bill was then read a second time.
COMMONS ENCLOSURE BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
MILITIA ACT CONTINUANCE BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
EUROPEAN COLONISATION IN INDIA.
Mr. EWART moved for a select committee to inquire
into the progress and prospects, and the best means to
be adopted for the promotion cf European colonisation
in India, and the fermation of military stations, especi-
ally in the hill districts and healthier climates cf that
country, as well as for the extension of our commerce
with Central Asia. His object, he said, was to hear
fully what could be said on both sides of this imperta,nt
question. He owed an apology to the house for
ing forward the question, and the best defence he could
offer, was the interest he felt in the subject, and the
plea, which was as old as Demosthenes, that in a delibe-
rative assembly it was competent for any person, who
honestly thought himself acting for the public good, to
propose that which ho thought was ireful to the state.
Committees which had sat bad :lightly touched on this
subject ; but it had not, to any great extent, engrossed
the attention of any committee ; and now, therefore, he
proposed a committee for this single question. No one
could read the evidence on this subject, without being
struck with the difference between the colonisation of
India and our other dependencies. In our other depen-
dencies, new British empires, as it were, might be seen
rising up ; but in India, beyond the military and the
executive, there were not more than 22,000 Europeans.
(Hear.) The climate wan ure.ed as an objection ; bat in
some districts the climate se far from being unfavourable
was highly favourable to European constitutions. It
might also be objected that the ground was occupied,
but there were suitable districts where this was not the

case. It might be objected that the East India Coro
pany had made the experiment and failed; but railways
and other facilities for inter-communication would bring
about a totally different state of things. He quoted the
opinions of two governors-general (Metcalfe and Ben-
tinck), who were strongly in favour cf the European
colonisation of India. Of late years the East India
Company itself had been favourable to it, though
formerly it was not so. The tenure of land might be
urged as an objection, but the company denied that
there were grounds of complaint, and declared that
there was no objectioa to any person holding the fte
simple of land. The hon. gentleman then went at con-
siderable length into the reasons why he thought that
the hill districts of the Himalayas, and some other parts
of India, were suitable both with respect to soil and
climate for European colonisation. But there was some-
thing more important than military occupation, and
that was sett!ernent and ccbni-ation. Armies could
conquer a country, but it was only by settlers and colo-
nists that it could he retained. He would now advert to
what might be called the Indian view cf the question, i r
the effect on the natives. It could not be denied that it
would be a vast boon to India, if Eoglish gold could be
made to flew freely into it, and that could only happen
by facilitating the admission of colonists. The country
was rich in the varied products that did not invite else-
where the attention of the cultivator. In the bill coun-
try there was abundance of Indigo and cotton, and in
Assam there had been a great increase in the cu!tivation
of tea. It appeared that in 1851.5 the weight of the
Assam tea crop was 538,0001b5., in 1855-6 it had in-
creased to 638,0001b5., and in 1856-7 to 700.000110.
Until now the inhabitants of the Himalayas had been
supplied with tea from Thibet, but a supply of it from
As-am would be of infinite benefit to them, while it would
be of great importance to trade. The existence of the
bill stations was of great importance to India, and that
importance was daly augmenting. Dr. Harker said
that Daijeelirg had doubled itself during the last two
years, while trade had made immense progress.
Dr. Campbell, too, stated that thousands of natives were
attracted to them from all quarters, and these state-
ments were amply confirmed :ey Mr. Wellby Jackson.
And now he would turn from the Indian to the English
view cf the question. They heard it said on all sides
that these hill stations, having an European climate,
could be rendered great centres ef European civilisation,
by the establishment of colleges and schools of law, and
it had been eeriously proposed, in consequence of the
advantages which arose from the extension of telegraphs,
to establish the central government more in the northern
part of India. If they had places of education in those
regions one great use of them would be to extend the
knowledge of the English language among the native
tribes. In the 7th chapter of his first book, Gibbon
pointed out the importance which the Romans attached
to the influence of language in their colonising efforts,
and the language of Virgil and Cicero, not in its purest
form, perhaps, took root in Africa, Gaul, Pannonia, and
Britain. Another important means of colonisation,
which should be borne in mind, was in the establish-
ment of free municipalities. In the ancient cities which
the Romans founded on the frantiers of Gaul, and which
were still to be met with in the south of France, were
still to be found the last lingerinr beams of their civili •
sation, and their example was well' worthy of imitation
in India. Another view of the question was the great
value of opening up their trade with Central Asia. As
long ago as the year 1783, under Warren Hastings, we
had a trade with Central Asia, across the Ilimalayae,
but Russia now supplied a large extent of that region,
poor indeed, but well worthy of attention, and
of some effort to rouse their dormant energies. (Hear.)
Capt. Turner, who was sent to Thibet by Warren
Hastings, and whose statements had been confirmed by
those of the Abbes flue, Thibet had rock salt, wool, and
many other valuable products in great abundance. More-
over, there was a large quantity of gold, and unless he
(Mr. Ewart) were mistaken, Thibet was the California
of Asia. The Abbe Hue said the finding of gold was so
common that the shepherds amused themselves by puri-
fying the gold which they found while watching their
flocks. lie thought, therefore, the possibility of opening
up an extensive trade with Central Asia was a fair me-
jeet for inquiry. There was, however, another question
far more momentous, namely, the extension of Chris-
tianity in these regions. (Hear.) He could conceive no
better means of promoting that object than the establish-
ment in districts where the climate was European a
European population, which would from age to age teach
the precepts and exhibit the example which distinguished
a Christian community from every other. He trusted
there was reason to hope that tranquillity would soon be
restored to India. Might they not believe that through
such means as he had suggested a now era would dean
upon that country ? They won it—not always by the
fairest means—by arts and arms ; but he hoped they
would soon be able to say, in the words of Shakspere—
" I won thee by the sword,
And gain'd thy hand in doing thee injury;
But I will wed thee in a softer key,
With peace, with freedom, and with equity."

In the name of commerce and civilisation, and in the
name of Christianity itself, be asked the house to assent
to his motion.
Mr. H. BAILLIE said thet the motion of the hon.
member for Dpmfries was, doubtless, oncof great import-
ance, but he would forgive him for saying he thought the
time he had selected for bringing it forward was inoppor-
tune. The hon. gentleman was aware that in a few days
they would be cal! ed on to legislate for India, and to form
a government for that country, and ho thought he
woul.l have done better to have waited, in order to see
what f em of government it might please that house to
determine upon. He must express hie surprise, too, at
the sanguine views as to the colonisation of India which
the hon. gentleman bad announced, since all authorities
were said to be agreed that, even in the bill stations cf
India, Europeans could not live beyond the third gene-
ration. But the lion. gewlernan did not appear to anti-
cipate that those colonies would be self-supporting, for
he proposed that the Indian Government should apply
the revenue; of India to these three objects—the estab-
lishment of schools and colleges, the construction of rail-
ways to the districts where the colonies were to be
located, and the establishment of military stations fur
the benefit of the colonists. Now, first, with respect to
military stations in the hills; that was a favourite
theory with many gentlemen, but he was sure that if
the plan were adopter], it would turn out most inju-
riously for the troops themselves ; for though whilst in
the hills they would be in an agreeable climate, yet
they would not become acclimatised, and, whenever re
quired for service in the plains, they would soon become
unserviceable. Further than that, they should ask
whether it would be just to the people of India to make
them pay for tbo-e colonies. India was a highly peopled
country, and did not want colonists, and, therefore, the
country that sent them out ought to pay for them. If
ho could not convince the lion. gentleman of that, he
hoped he could at least show him that, if the attempt
were made, it would prove impracticable. Tho hon.
gentleman must, in the first place, expect the colonist
to take out a certain amount of capital, for labour in
India was cheap. But what Eeglishman would do so
far from home, and invest his money in a comparatively
unknown country, without having some reasonable pros-
pect of a return tor his capital and even then he would
find that he mast cultivate the plains and not the hills.
High upon the hills, where the European climate
was to be met with, the country was rugged and barren,
derth expenditure of no amount of capital would ren-
thee soil productive, of that he had be n well assured.
The honourable gentleman talked of Simla, at an eleva-
tion of 17,000 feet above the level of the sea, but Simla
was situated en the f ce of a steep and rugged moun-
tain. Simla might do well ono.ugh for invalids, and
there was a large population there, but that population
was constantly fluctuating, and it was not such a one as
was likely to realise the views whiee the hon. gentle man
had explained to the house. He was told that the Go-
vernment of India was opposed to colonisation and
against Europeans acqu'ring land. Bet he believed that '
of late years land bad been offered to Europeans on very
fair terms. So much delusion existed on this subject
that he would remind them that the land of India did
not belong to the Government. It was private pro-
perty, subject to a land tax, and some of the titles of the
natives were very old. Whatever belonged to Govern
went was offered to colonists, but officers and pen-
sioners could not be induced by such offers to accept it.
Neither in New Zealand nor in Australia could land be
offered on more liberal terms. A complaint bad been
made against the operation of the 'and-tax by hon. gen
eemen connected with Manchester who were interested
in the cultivation of cotton ; but in Bombay the land-
tex was fixed at a rate for 30 years, and a change in the
levying of that tax was going on in Madras. As to the
motion of the hon. member, the Government did not
wish to prevent inquiries, and if his hon. friend would
be satisfied at present with getting all the ieformat'on
on the subject which could be afforded, be could next
year, when the government of India was remodelled,
renew his motion ; bet if he persisted in moving f r tt e
committee of inquiry at preeent, Government would nut
:iirew any obstructions in his way.
Mr. W. EWART, in reply, intimated his intention
of proceeding with hie motion.
Colonel SYKES said the East India Company bad
anticipated the wishes of the hon. member by Eending out