The Sun.
London, England, 1858-03-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 13, 1858

1 tYi , AT PA !;` LI A .11 N 7

subject of the humblest State. (Hear.) He proposed to
swer
y
y
h
h
hwwtoheffehlerdeoen.tmrcyi eebtrrthuahenugyeaanr
wbo uthety tbecause,iiotnvve
ahx sa: except
p tb
ethavingehnat
we been
ett ehhne.
Bchliaarhipd'i cit':iwubsu hrai'dl:4::tohtnSetabmitehirse": Government,tibg tea nbeod- I fuiarjBt imee tyht
Ih'ect• themselves
mee° 'gaatriat e-thes' 'he wibfteyhi:ai cntthoo
circum-
stances having occurred so long ago as Jane last, that
the rights of these men had been so long infringed. Ile
was prepared with some statements which would explain
the hitherto obscurity of the case. He would first give
a simple narrative of the fasts. (The hon. and learned
gentleman then proceeded minutely to detail the facts
of the capture which has already appeared more than
once in Tire Sun.) • A proof cf the perfect innocence of
the crew, and especially of the two engineers, was
unexplained,
sadei thatnameppg,
country,eh a
might ask
Neapolitan
hfaao tsr
kl
protectionp w, nor even because they
found in the fact that when the steamer came in
sight of the English squadron precautions were
taken to prevent any of the crew being seen on
deck, and the portholes were closed up to prevent the
two engineers making signals with their handkerchiefs.
So late as Feb. sth last, Lord Clarendon had stated in
the House of Lords that the captain of the Cagliari had
surrendered to the Neapolitan squadron ; but it now ap-
peared that this was not the case. The Cagliari was
captured at a distance of 6 to 12 miles from any part of
the coast. She was afterwards towed back nearly to the
place she had come from, the object being to make it
appear that she had been captured near the shore. It
was clear that no sert of crime bearing the complexion
of international crime was committed from first to last.
When the insurgents rose against the captain t Joy were
committing an offence against the municipal law of Sar-
dinia. When they disembarked in the Island of Ponza
they were clearly committing an offence against the
Neapolitan government ; but on neither occasion was
there an offence which would bear the construction of
international offence. It being impracticable for the
Neapolitan government to treat this as a case of piracy,
they had endeavoured to establish it as a case of war—
not between the Neapolitan government and the Sar-
dinian government, but between the King of the Two
Steilies and this small body of insurgents. And from
this they educed the consequence that they had a right
of capture, not only as against the insurgents, but as
against all the parties who happened to be parties in
this great war. They said that, finding this force on
the high seas in time of war, they were entitled to lake
the Englishmen into custody, to bring them back, and
to have their innocence tested. The Prize Court was
an institution belonging exclusively to the state of war.
These poor men had been imprisoned ever since the 29th
of June ; and from that hour to this nothing had been
done by the Government of this country towards their
liberation. The statement drawn up by Mr. Acting-
Consul Barber showed the treatment to which these
men had been subjected. He said : " Watt and Park
were landed from the steamer Cagliari at the end of
June last, together with the captain of that ship, her
crew and passengers. The captain, engineers, and pas-
sengers were at once conveyed to the Vioaria prison un-
bound, but the crew were handcuffed. As soon as they
reached the prison, the engineers, as well as the others,
were desired that if they bad any papers they would give
them up. Watt had none; Park gave up his pocket.
book, wherein ho had a copy of a note which the insur-
gents had forced upon him when they took possession of
the steamer shortly after leaving Genoa—the original
remained on board. This note was not 'signed by any
person, nor addressed to any one, and was worded nearly
as follows, viz., 4 We have resolved to free our country
from the yoke of slavery under which we hare so long
suffered, and we call upon ail upright men to aid us. if
you do your duty, no harm shall befall you, but, if other-
wise your lives are sacrificed.' They—the engineers and
others—on arriving at the prison, were stripped naked
by the police or prison authorities, and in teat position
were jeered at by them. After allowing them to dress
again, the two engineers, with the passengers, were con-
veyed to a prison on the ground floor, consisting of two
small rooms, which were very damp, with one small
barred window which looked into the prison-yard.
Through this window the sun never entered, and scarcely
were they able to distinguish daylight through it. To the
misery of damp and bad-ventilation was added one still
greater—viz., teat in lieu of a water-closet, a wooden
tab was placed in the middle cf each room. Thee two
tubs were emptied every evening, if the engineers paid
some person to do so, but not otherwise, They were
never washed, and the stench, especially at night, when
the small barred window was closed, was very great, and
their health soon began to suffer. These two men were
i
taken out when required by the police authorities to
tkehep
yt I€* na
year
-13 thosel
yr oAmusg
tr! nag the h .
d tre hottest
September.e ho
They
monthsa in
ywere
submit them to an interrogatory. On such occasions they
were handcuffed before leaving the room, and brought
back in the same manner. Park mentions that on ore
occasion they conductei bins through damp underground
prisonsbefore bringing him to be interrogated, and from
the manner of the men who guarded him, he under-
stood that the intention was to intimidate him. The
allowance made to them by the Neapolitan Government
is—black bread of a very bad quality, and soup of so
nauseous a nature that they had turned always from it
iu disgust, and four graui per day each (less than 23.)
in money. Money was occasionally seot to them by
myself and some English engineers resident at Naples,
by seteei, they were anahl.:l to buy b.tt.e food. Tl,oir
beds consisted of boards supported on wooden trestles,
with one mattress stuffed with bad tow, mixed with bite
of straw. They suffered much from vermin. In the
beginning of October they, with the captain and crew,
were removed from the Yicaria prisons to those of
Salerno. The manner this was effected wee as fol-
lows :—The police handcuffed Park, and passed a leather
strap besides through both arms ; they attempted the
same with Watt, but he resisted this indignity as long
as he bad strength, but being overpowered, he was
handcuffed and strapped in the same manner as Park.
Taey were then tied together, put into a carriage into
which three gendarmes likewise entered, The windows
of the carriage were all drawn up, and thus, suffering
from the tightness with which they were bound, they
were forced to perform at a slow pace a journey of about
30 utiles by night, in a carriage hemetically closed.
They begged repeatedly that a window might be let
down, for the sake of air. Their request was not .
com-
plied with. Wnen they reached the prison of Salerno
the crew of the Cagliari were placed in two rooms—one
a large airy room, the other smaller and well ventilated.
Tae captain and the two engineers were pot into a
smell room immediately under those occupied by the
crew, which belonged to the gaoler. The room being
situated very low, and the space occupied by their three
beds leaving them little evac3 to walk in, the captain
commenced suffering from bowel cemplaiut. Watt has
threatened insanity ; and Park, who enjoyed very good
health before his imprisonment, now suffers from fits/.
A petition was sent by them to tee Attorney-General,
begging that they might be placed in the same
rooms with the crew, which was granted one day
before our going to Salerno, viz., on the 24th of
November. They have now a certain space to walk in,
in the larger room of the two. Since their arrival at Sa-
lerno the engineers have frequently been conveyed from
their prison to the tribunal to be examined by the Attor-
ney-General. On these occasions they have been paraded
through the streets of Salerno, strongly guarded, and
handcuffed. They have repeatedly begged that they
might be spared the humiliation cf handcuffs, but their
prayer has always been refu-ed. The handcuffs are made
of iron. Park states that for several days after they
reached Salerno the marks were still visible on their
wrists and arms, from the tightness with which they
were bound when they were taken from Napes to
Salerno. The small sum of four grani per day, allowed
to each man by the Neapolitan Government, enables ,
them to pay for the hire of their beds. The beds are of
a better description than those they had at Naples. The
company to whom the Cagliari belongs allows about
12e. 2d. daily to assist the crew in their subsistence, out
this small sum, having to be divided amongst 22 persons,
helps them but very little." Such was the cruelty to
which they had been subjected that one of them had
been suffering from illness, and the other had been un
fortunately reduced to a state of iaaanity.

t'a.u]

Leaiing
cConapanios.

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HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The house reassembled to-day. Honourable mem-
bers commenced assembling about a quarter past three
o'clock, and amongst the earliest arrivals were Viscount
Goderich, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Drummond, Mr. Card-
well, Sir W. Heathente, Mr. Bentinck, Lord Hotham,
Mr. Ellice, sen., Sir F. Baring, Colonel Wilson Patten,
Sir E. Perry, Mr. I. Butt, Sir De Lacy Evans, Mr. J.
W. Fox, Sir J. Graham, &c., &c.
At twenty minutes to 4 o'clock the Attorney-General,
the Solicitor-General, the Lord Advocate, and Colonel
Forrester, entered the house and took their seats in the
place allotted for newly-elected members.
The SPEAKER took the chair at a quarter to 4 o'clock,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—
Though I have already spoken in this debate, I will ask
permission of the house to be allowed to do so again ;
for it would be an apparent want of courtesy to the hon.
and learned gentleman if I did not answer the statement
which be has made. No doubt the case of these two
engineers is one of a very distressing character, aid one
which bas the marked sympathy not only of every mem-
ber of this house, but of the country generally. (Hear,
hear.) That men from the north of England, in the
peaceable pursnit of that ingenious industry which was
their means of livelihood, should be suddenly thrown
into a prison in the south of Europe, under the circum-
stances in which these individuals find themselves, is a
combination of circumstances which at once engages the
attention of all. (Hear.) It may be that these individuals
are morally innocent. Indeed, I would not hesitate to
say, so far as I cilia form an opinion, that I have a strong
impression that they are morally innocent. (Hear.) But
the hon. and learned gentleman must know that a per.
son may be morally innocent, and yet ay, by unfortunate
cam-es, be placed in circumstances in which it is abso-
lutely necessary that, to demonstrate that moral inno-
cence, he mast submit to judicial investigation. Ido
not clear:y understand from the lion. and learned gentle.
man what it is that be expects from her Majesty's Go-
vernmentl Let us look at the facts of this cats. It
happened about nine or tan months ago ; and of course
that alone would render us most anxious to pay every
attention to the position of these individuals. But there
was no neglect on the part of the late Government in
attending to these circumstances. They were submitted
to the investigation and to the decision of the law officers
of the Crown, and the course of the Government was
taken in accordat.ce with the decision of the lsw officers.
They have continued, during this long period of ten
months, to act up'in the opinion and by the advice of
those high authorities. It was not a casual or cursory
opinion. The attention of the law officers was drawn to
;
every incident that has occurred in these transactions
and therefore it was the continuous and freq
of the late officers that guided them in talite:t
cre of opinion
policy
on
urse they
e
have pur-ued. It is not, therefore, a m
which can be changed by a change of Government ; it is
a matter of law. Ma Government of this country has
acknowledged the jurisdiction of the kingdon of the Two
Siciliee in the instructions which it has sent out; and
we have been interfering in the regulation and manage-
ment of their prisons. We have demanded permission
that th, se two Englishmen should have the privilege of
receiving the visits of their relatives and legal advisers.
The question is ono of law, and not one of polcy ; and
I have not heard from the hon. and Darned gentleman
one reason why we should take it out of the chin in
which we found it. I cannot presume to give an opinion
thick that the opinions
cn this legal question. Some may

. _
which have'guided the Government ought to prenonde-
raw Tore are ether epiraens which may be stea,ly
entitled to eespect. All will agree that it is a moot point
of law ; and therefore all that can be done is that those
who have the management of those affairs should be
guided by the legal decisions which they believe to be
most sound and equitable. This affair having gone on
for ten months—the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of the
Two Sicilies having beenacknowledged from the first by
the English Government—the trial proceeding—aed
they having interfered only as far as the Englishmen
were concerned—it seems to ns that we are foreclosed
from opening this question. We have admitted the jui i •
diction, and I think the hon, and learned gentleman is
labouring under a false impression in supposing that
this was a mere affair of policy which would be changed
by a change of Government. Ido not see that the Go-
vernment of this country could do more, in the position
in which this question finds itself, than to take the most
efficient steps to obtain for our unfortunate countrymen
prompt justice, and to take care that while the investi-
gationiis going on they should feel that they are not de-
serted by their country. (Hear, hear.) Finding this state
cf affairs, I can assure the house that her Majesty's Go-
vernment have not at all neglected it. It was the very
first thing to which we gave our attention. Lord Malmes-
bury communicated immediately with a gentleman emi•
nent for his ability and station, who was calculated in
every way to exercise a very beneficial influence on behalf
of our countrymen, who happened to be at Rome, and was
directed to repair without loss of time to Salerno to inves-
tigate from the first the whole of the proceedings aeainst
these two unfortunate individuals—to take every
precaution that that trial should be conducted with im-
partiality, and that they should want no means of assist.
ance in conducting their defence; in fact, " to do every-
thing (I believe I quote the language of the instructions)
to comfort and sustain them in the grievous trial to
which they are subjected"—(heat)—and to accompany
all this with as stirring a protest as possible against any
delay whatever in coming to a decision on this case. I
hope the house will believe that, in the difficult position
in which we found this affair, we have done all—l do
not say that could be done—but all that it was advisable
to do for the advantage of these two men. And I must
express more than a hope that these exertions will not
be fruitless, that we shall see our countrymen restored
to England, and that the end of this unhappy affair will
not be so mortifying and so shameful as the hon. gentle-
man thinks. The hon. gentleman guarded himself against
any expression which at this moment might produce ex-
citement or arouse feelings—unamiable feelings--to-
wards the Government of Naples. lam extremely glad
that he spoke in that spirit. I do not think that the po-
sition of our unfortunate countrymen would be benefited
by our departing from that courtesy which is usually
shown to foreign Powers. After all, what i 3 more im-
portant than the question of law—what is more impor-
tant than any question as to sovereign rights and inte-
rests! and what really touches the feelings o' this coun-
try is, that we should obtain the release of those two
men, and that they should obtain that release by the
public recognition of their innocence. Such a result will
be facilitated, no doubt, by temperate conduct and tem-
perate language. I can a.sure the house that the subj-ct
anxiou-ly occupies the attention cf Government, and
that no means will be spared by which we can obtain
a thee individuals that justice to which they are en-
titled, and the rindicetion of their character from that
charge of misconduct of which I believe them to be en-
tirely innocent. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HEADLAM Pa d that one of those unhappy men
was a constituent of his, and he naturally f It a strong
interest in the case. (Hear.) He cf course admitted that
the mere change of Government dia net necessarily in-
clude any change of policy, and he did not say anything
if the present government which he would not say of
their predecessors. (Hear.) Bte;, be confessed he had
listened with some dissatisfaction to the statement that
the previous Government had admitted the juiiseliction
of the kingdom of Naples, and that consequently the
present Government were precluded from taking what
he conceived to be the etrongeA argument in favour of
these uncappy man, namely, a complete denial of the
jurisdiction f the Neapolitan courts. (Hear.) Ho felt
somewhat alarmed lost, between the two Governments,
the lieulthe and the fortunes of our countrymen should
be endangered and destroyed. (Hear.) He had for soiree
time taken the deepest interest in this question. Like tLe
late Government, for a long time he believed, upon the
facts that were before the house and the country, that
this strict letter of the law was with the Neapolitan Go-
vernment. Ile bad thought that the capture was legal—
that the Neapolitan G..vernmeut bad a right to try
thee men, and, as an incident to that right, had a right
io detain them in custody. Such being supposed to be
the facts the duty of the Government was limited to
what the late Government had fulfilled—namely, a mere
suggestion that the trial should be a speedy one—an
endeavour to obtain justice when it did come on—and
an endeavour, by remonstrance or other modes, to miti-
gate as far as possible the hardships to which these m, n
were subjected. Now the facts appeared to be totally dif-
ferent. And upon these facts he rested the very clear
and self-evident proposition—that the Neapolitan Go-
vernment were not justified in the capture of the Cagliari
in the manner in which the was captured, and that, con-
seqaeutly, not only hal we a right to complain of the
ct uelty to which these men had been subj cted, and to
say that they were entitled to an acquittal upon the
merits, but far more, we were entitled to say that they
never ought to have ban confined at all, that they ought
not tr, h.e put upon their tri,.l and that every hour during
which they continued in their state of illegal confinetnent
was a humiliation inflicted upon thiscountry. (Chters ) It
was an undoubted fact that this capture did take place
riot within waters of Neapolitan jurisdiction, but upon
the high area. (Hear.) But this was the essence of the
whole question. (Hear, hear.) When the case was
first made known to them it was supposed that the I
capture was made within the Neapolitan waters, and
not where it actually was made. (Hear.) The reason of
the mistake was this, that immediately after the capture
the Ca;,iltari was taken in tow by a Neapolitan war
steamer, and brought within a few miles of the Nein
pelitan shore. Consequently, when the vessel was first
seen in capture it was within the waters of Naples, and
therefore the impression arose that the capture was made
within those waters. This was the first and most im-
portaut fact of the case. The second was, that when the
vessel was captured nu act of violence was done by her
which could at all be construed into an act of war or
piracy, or invasion of the municipal law of Naples or
any other country. However, she was taken forcibly
by two armed vessels, a ehotted gun, he believed,
was fired over her, and the captain and men were
brought upon shore. Tee question under these cir-
cumstances, was one which any gentleman could decide
urea] for himself. They knew of course that if any
Englishman, however innocent, had been arrested in a
street of Naples for any alleged broach of the peace they
could not deny the right of the Neapolitan Government
to try him All they could filo was to endeavour to miti-
gate his position and to get him a fair hearing. But if
the Neapolitan Government arrested a British subject,
even though guilty of a breach of the peace, on the high
seas, they were r.cting without the sanction of law, and
beyond their right; and it was the duty of this country
to deny the right of the Neapolitan Government, and
to demand the release of the party. (Hear, hear.) No
dispute coral arise as to facts ; and as to the matter of
Law, no doubt exietei as to the course which ought to be
taken by this country. That coulee was taken by the
Sardinian Government. (Hear, hear.) The Sardinian
Government rested their case on this view, and he
contended it was the duty of the present Govern-
ment, as it was the duty of the late Government, if they
bad known these facts, to support the same view, and to
bring the matter, not before the
Neapolitan
tribunal.,
submit to, but hefore
the Neapolitan government for the purpose of insisting
on the restitution of the subjects of this country. (Rear.)
He felt that these men were our fellow-subjects—men
on whom great and grievous cruelty had been inflicted,
and be for one was not satisfied with the course which
her Majesty's government had pursued. (Hear.) He
understood from the newspapers that Mr. Lyons had
been directed to attend at the trial, and to tee that
justice was done. He doubted if that was sufficient or
adequate to the gravity of the occasion. He believed
that the truest course to take for the honour and dignity
of the country, and the best for those unhappy men who
had been now subjected to ten months of grievous perse-
cution, would be with firmness and dignity to deny the
right of the Neapolitan tribunals to try them, and to
claim in conjunction with the Sardinian government,
that they should be restored to their liberty and their
country. (Hear, hear.)

three decker to the Bay of Naples and within a cannon-
shot of the royal palace. (Hear, hear.) That was what
he would have done. The right hon. gentleman spoke
of using amiable language. The amiable language he
would have used would have been cannon shot. (Laugh
ter and cheers.) They were told that—
" Britannia's march was on the mountain wave,"
and that,
" Her home was on the deep,"
but this would be true no longer if these things wore to
be permitted. (Hear, hear.) When Spain committed
an act of oppression and treachery on an Englishman,
he, believing that his last hour was come, after
describing the horrors to which he was subjected, cow.
mended his soul to God, and vengeance to his coun-
try. He (Kr. Roebuck) said on the part of these men
that though they went abroad, they went abroad with
the great r gis of their country over them, and
that they might walk the waters as safely as they might
the floor of that house ? What was the worth of Rug.
land's navy, England's name, or of England's power, if
they did not protect English subjects wherever they
went (Hear, hear.) These men were in pursuit of
peaceful objects ; they did nothing contrary to any law
and yet they were treated in this cruel way, and one of
them lost his reason in consequence of the severity of a
Neapolitan imprisonment. We stood by, and were told
not to use unaitnable language. Unaimable language !
When he knew that one of his fellow countrymen had
been rendered insane by the conduct of Naples—(hear,
hear)—he should be unworthy of his position as an Eng-
lish representative if be did not raise his voice and lay
that, in whatever clime Englishmen might be, and what-
ever Government might be in office, it was the duty of
England and England's Government to defend them.
(Cheers.)

Mr. W. EVVA.RT said that it appeared to him that
the circumstances of this case had conspletel changed, foe
it was now clear that the Cagliari had been seized not in
the waters of Naples, but on the high seas. It was upon
that view of the case that Count Cavour founded his
excellent and dignified despatch. He now wished to ask
her Majesty's Government whether it was their inten-
tion to act with the vigour which signalised the Sardi-
nian Government by sending a memorial to the Govern-
ment of Naples on this subject ? (Hear.) The only
consistent course for this country to adopt under the
altered circumstances of the case who to demand the
observance of international law, to vindicate the rights
of Englishmen, and the claims of justice. (Hear.)
Mr. HORSMAN said he agreed with the hon. and
learned member for Newcastle that this question could
not be suffered to rest where it was, and whether it
was the present Government or the late Government
who were in fault, it was now high time for the House
of Commons to take this question into their own hands,
and that they should make themselves acquainted with
all the facts of the case. (Hear.) If, as appeared to be
the case, these facts were uncontradioted, he must
say that, after these two countrymen of theirs had
been for ten months in this state of imprisonment, the
position cf that house was most humiliating, and the
conduct which had been pursued was not creditable either
to the Ministry or to the house. (Hear, bear.) A
despatch of Count Cavour's appeared in the public papers
which had out been laid before the house. That docu-
ment bad, he presumed, received an answer from the
Neapolitan Government, a copy of which answer was no
doubt in the possession of her
_Majesty's Government.
He wished to ask whether it wad not the fact tbat the
Neapolitan Government admitted that the capture of the
Cagliari was made on the open Seas ; and if that vessel
was such as was described, and her capture effected in
the ~pen sea, he would ask the late Attorney-General
or the present Attorney-General, or any lawyer in the
h 'use, whether that capture was not an illegal capture.
(Hear, hear,) Ante if the capture was not legal, wheth,r
tee detention, the imprisonment, and every subsequent
proceeding was not a violation of international law !
(Hear, hear.) If that was the fact, and the state of
the law, was it any answer for the right honour-
al,le gentleman to tell the house that the last Gc-
ve:nment chose to submit to have two British sub-
jeets imprisoned and tortured, and dealt with in such a
manner that both lost their health, and one his reason f
(Hear, hear.) Though her Majesty's Government knew
tbis to be illegel,iheugh they knew twat those outrages
were perpetrated against their countrymen in violation
of international law and every principle of justice, were
they to be toll by the Government that they found
themselves iu this condition, that they c )uld not back
the demand of Count Cavour, and that Sardinia must
fight this battle by herself ? li, when the new facts be-
came hnown to the present Government, they persisted
iu that course, especially when the despatch of Count
Cavour wad made known to them they were as much to
blame as the late Government. He wished to know from
the right hon. gentleman whether there would be any
objection to lay on the table all the papers connected
with this subject. He should like to have the communi-
cations that passed between the late Government and
the acting consul at Naples, between the acting consul
and the authorities at Naples and between her Majesty's
late Secretary for Foreign Affairs and the Neapolitan
ministry. He thought the time was come when they
should have before them all the information, so as not
to remain any longer in ignorance of the real circum-
stances of the case—(hear, hear)—tbat the time was
come when they should insist ou putting an end to that
system of secrecy—(cheers)—which might be wed suited
to despotic governments, hut which was alien to the
feelings of a free constitution, and in consequence of
w'eieb our own international affairs were so constantly
getting into difficulties. (Hear, hear.) He thought it
relit to give the Government notice that whatever they
did new this house would justly bold them as respon-
(
sail° as if they were in office six months ago—(oh, oh,
and hear, hear)—for eveey act which they now commit-
ted with a full knowledge of the real facts—as respon-
sible as if they were originallypartiee to the transaction.
The house should insist on the production of all the
papers without reservation, in order that they might be
enabled to form their opinions on the judgment they
ahorld pronounce. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said he felt they were falling into
a discussion, or rather into a half discussion, cf a mat•
ter of immeasurable importance, under disadvantages
which must preclude any progress---at least any satis-
factory progress towards a solution. His principal ob-
ject in rising was to express a hope that her Majesty's
Government might be inclined to accede to the request
of the right hon. gentleman who had just spoken, and
produce the papers asked for. (Hear.) lie did not
understand that any negotiations were at present in pro-
gress, he thought the aspect of the facts was such as to
make it the duty of the house to take them into their
careful consideration. (Hear, hear.) He was not pre-
pared, in the present state of the information he pos-
sessed, to join with those who were prepared to cut
blame on the Government which now held office. Ile
thought it impossible, without a much more minute
knowledge of the facts and circumstances than the
house possessed, to pass any opinion with regard to the
culpability or blamelessness of any Government with
respect to this question. It turned very much upon
dates. It appeared that originally there was a complete
misunderstanding with regard to the facts of the ewe.
He regretted that his hon. and learned friend (Mr, Roe-
braked ) enteredwhatit awtouaildl
be
ottobe thdeutbyyszfththeits Gicalovceasrne,meaantd
a
to'do if this vessel had been captured in Neapolitan
supposed
dhaint
Neapolitan waters,
waters. They now
tkhnoeuwghthitatwsahseatw
first not
tt
she was. From where fault did that error arise I The
error arose i I not from the fault, at least out of the pro-
ceedings of the Neapolitan Government. This print
seemed to be of essential and vital importance in the
consideration of the question ; for if the error arose out
of the prooeedings of the Neapolitan Government,
it clearly followed, as it appeared to him, that the
Neapolitan Government could not be entitled to
take any benefit whatever by its own wrong. (Hear.)
If the admissions made by the late Government
were admissions which were made when they were mis-
informed as to the facts, these admissions were not
binding on her Majesty's present advisers, and still less
on the House of Commons (Hear, hear.) But what
he trusted might prove not to have been the case—what
he trusted he should be informed not to have been the
case—was that no further admissions had been made,
because it was now a long time since they read the
account cf the despatch of Count Cavour ; and he con-
fessed it was with pain, shame, and astonishment, he
found that the duty of vindicating the law cf nations—
of vindicating the rights of Englishmen—should have
fallen into the bands of feeble Sardinia, and not of mighty
England. (Hear, hear.) He trusted they should have
all the circumstances of the case before them. It was
true our position was most unfortunate, because the
proceedings had now reached a point that any expres-
sloe of the wishes of the house might be too late, and
appear ridiculous in the face of the world—that was to
say, after the trial bad been brought to a conclusion.
But, at the same time, partly with regard tie these men,
but still ore with guest to the principles of public
right invomlved , and the qon of ministerial responsi-
bility, it was most imp( //tent, in his judgment, unless it
could be shown that public inconvenience would arise
from the contrary course, this house should be placed in
immediate and full possession of the facts (Near.) He
niust say this, that, if there was any reluctance on the
part of the present government to produce the papers, it
could not be any interested reluctance, because be knew
they could not have any selfish motive in refusing them,
and if they refused to produce them, he WAS sure they
would be able to state strong reasons of public conveni-
ence and principle for such refusal. (Hear, hear.) If
none such existed, he hoped they would accede to the
request which he thought had been judiciously made by
the right hon. gentleman.
Lord PALMERSTON said the case to which the die
cussion related was one which occupied for a considera-
ble period the anxious attention of the late Government,
and they should have been moat Oita if they could have
found any ground on which to make some demand upon
the Neapolitan Government which would have led to the
lieeration of their two countrymen. (Hear, hear.) Bat
through the whole course cf the transaction, they were
guided by what they were told, by those who were the
best able to judge, were the principles of international
law. It certainly was for a brig time the opinion that
these men had been captured within the Neapolitan
waters. But it turned out by the recent publicat
captureioof
jurisdiction papers by the Neapolitan Government that the
cf the Nea-
politan Government. The circumstance,rtbdic
was made beyond the territorial
he shouldhat the]
:could have
thought, might have altered the case; but in t
1. inion cf those most com-
petentwould be also guided by
the
opinion
subject. But that sub-
ject at the time we retired from
was under consideration
to give au opinion on the .
m°. With regard to the question respecting the lay-
ing cf papers on the tails, he had to remind the house
that some portion of the papers had beer_ laid on the
table last session, and, speaking from general recollec.
tion of what bad passed since, as ferns he was coecerned
le saw no cojecll_n :o she proAt);ion of the oorrespou

Mr. ROEBUCK said it anything could astonish him
.n that house, it was the language of the right hon. gentle-
man on that occasion—language which was wholly un-
worthy of a British minister. (Loud cheers.) Two
Englishmen had been seized unjustly on the high seas,
and subjected to ten mouths of horrible imprisonment,
and the government of this country were cognisant of
these facts. The right hon. gentleman was not answer-
able for what occurred in the first instance. He (.Ir.
Roebuck) did not care whether there men were taken in
the Neapolitan waters or out of them. (Hear) H.
oe,stireutnld
enhance his case by saying they
u waters°
but he would say that even if taken laNeapolitanbeen
protected by
'
were takeno t 1
being Englishmen, they should hahve. _ a .
fair and Hume
the power of England, and hvavte d
what was the case I
diate trial. (Hear, hear.) .
guoedtoadungeon,where
privations, and wo looked
Tthheeyy the
I,oked ten—whilst Neapolitan go.
were not tried, bhutrroiobnlesi
is t committed these indignities on English
hear.) But the ease did not rest
one—wtaemreeleyx
t(loileyearw'•ere captured out of the Neapolitan
(Hear.) Then the Neapolitan government
there,wevueall
t, j-eereterc.
for
attempted to say they were pirates. The piracy was
on the part of a. Neapolitan government, and not on
the part of these men. (Hear, hear.) They were going
from Genoa; they were seized, pistols put t,) their head,,
and commanded to do certain things. They did them.
When released they went back, and were on their way
to Naples to give information of what had occurr, d.
They were taken by the NespolitanAvliestshele,stehlrao:ini
cane
prison, and treated in a way which was a disgrace to a
TheeaGr',,vheeranr.m) eat now sitting on that
anything4ll,i!ig. f one to vindicate
toc' vtihi i:
ed
knowledgecocountry.
of
(Rear, hear.) ‘Ve
(the opposition) bench. Was l,
the honour of England ? N
recalled our minister ;we enacted that farce. What happened afterwards ? Why, (Cheers.
tw
jects were subj acted to this horrible
imporisEonlieinsht, saunbd-
st hti eorueldwhaas
have
eobn do
one towtaetch over their interests. What
was this : An sage should have been sent to the KiimugmeodfiaNteapnileess:
and he should have been told, supposing these
men were taken in Neapolitan waters, " These men
are to I e tried immediately, they aro not to be
ill treated or injured ; their health, their honour, their
fortunes, or their remon are not to be endangered ; they
must be tried fairly and immediately,
and it this is not
done"—instead of sending Mr. Lyons, he would have
sent Lord Lyons—(laughter and "bear, hear")--with
a
i,