The Sun.
London, England, 1858-06-25 00:00:00

rn SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JUNE e 5, 186 S.

value hereafter—they would have begun to unite govern-
ment with a governor, and unlsss they did that no Govern-
ment would be safe, and any hurricane might overturn it
or throw it into utter confusion. (Beer.) Now, suppose
the Governor-General gone, th it pr sidercies established,
the governors equal in rank and dignity, and their coun-
cils constituted in the manner he had indicated, was it not
reasonable to suppose that the delay which had hitherto
baon one of the greatest curses of their Indian government
would be almost altogether avoided ? Instead of a Gover-
nor-General living in Calcutta, never travelling over the
whole of the country. and knowing very little about it,
and that only through other official eyes, was it not reason-
able to suppose that the melon of the Government would
be more direct in all its duties and in every department of
its service than had been the ease under the system which
had existed until now ? Their adruinistra don of the law,
marked by so much disgrace, could never have lasted so
long as it had done if the governors of their presidencies
had been independent governors. So with regard to mat-
ters of p'oice, education, public works, and everything
that could stimulate industry, and so with regard to their
system of taxation. They would have in every presidency
a constant rivalry for good. (Cheers.) The governor of
Madras, when his term of office expired, would be de-
lighted to show that the people of that presidency,
were contented, that the whole presidency was pro-
gressing in civilisation, that roads and all manner of
useful public works were extending, that industry was
becoming more and more a habit of the people, and
that the exports and imports were constantly increasing.
The governors of Bombay and the rest of the presidencies
would he animated by the same spirit, and so they would
have all over India, as he had said, a rivalry for good; they
would have placed a check on that malignant spirit of am-
bition which hid worked so much evil— (hear, hear)- -they
would have no governor so great that they could not con-
trol him or who might make war when he pleased ; war
and annexation would be greatly checked, if not entirely
prevented; and he did in his conscience believe they would
in that way have laid the foundation for a better and more
permanent form of government for India than had over ob-
tained since it came under the rule of England. (Cheers.)
But how long did England propose to govern India? (Hear,
hear.) N body ante teseethat question, and nobody (out
answer it. Be!. 50 or 500 years, did any man with the
smallest ! '..anmering of common sense believe that that
glee, country, with its 20 different nations and its 20
languages, could ever be bound up and consolidated into
one compact and enduring empire ? He believed such a
thing to be utterly impossible. We must fail in the attempt
if ever we made it, and we were bellied to look into the
future with reference to that point. The presidency of
Madras, for instance, having its own government, would, in
50 years become one compact State, and every part of the
presidency would look to the city of Madras as its capital,
and to the government of Madras as its ruling power. If
that were to go on for a century or more, they would have
theirfireorsixpresidenciesof India built into so many com-
pact States, and if at any future period the sovereignty of
England should be withdrawn, we should leave so many
presidencies built up and firmly compacted together, each
able to support its own independence and its own govern-
ment, and we should be able to say we had not left the
country a prey to that anarchy and discord which he believed
were inevitable if we insisted on holding those vast terri-
tories with the idea of building them up into one great
empire. But ho was obliged to admit that mere machinery
was not sufficient in this case, either with respect to his
own scheme, or to that of the noble lord (Lord
Stanley). They wanted something else than mere
clerks, stationery, despatches, and so forth. They wanted
what he should designate as a new feeling in England, and
an entirely new policy in India. (Cheers.) They must in
future have India governed, not for a handfnl of English-
men—not
for that civil service whose praises wore so con-
stantly sounded in that house. They might govern India,
if they liked, for the good of England, but the good of Eng-
land must come through the channel of the good of India.
(Hoar.) There were but two modes of gaining anything by
our connection with India. The one was by plundering the
people of India, and the other by trading with them. He
preferred to do it by trading with them; but in order that
England might become rich by trading with India, India
it: elf must become rich —(hear)—and India could only be-
come rich through the sound administration ofjustice, and
through entire security for life and property. Now, as to
this new policy, he had said if he were Minister he
should do so and so; and he would tell the house what
he thought the Prime Minister should do if thisbill passed.
Ho ought to choose for his President of the Board of Con-
trol or his Secretary of State for India amen who could not
be excelled by any other man in his Cabinet or in his party
for capacity, for honesty, for attention to his duties, and
for knowledge of the particular office to which he was ap-
pointed. If any Prime Minister appointed an inefficient
man to such an office he would be a traitor to the throne
of England. (Cheers.) That officer, appointed for the qua-
lities he had just indicated, should with equal scrupelous-
ness and conscientiousness mak e the appointments whether
of the Governor-General, or, should that office be abolished,
of the governors of the presidencies of India. Those ap-
pointments should not be rewards for old men simply be-
eaUse aIICII men had dons eeo. V:Cti:W:l,ll lr ii;
nor should they be rewards for mere party service—(hear,
hear)—but they should be appointments given under a feel
ing that interests of the very highest moment, connected
with this country, depended on those great offices in India
being properly filled up. The same principles should run
throughout the whole system of government, for unless
there was a very high degree of virtue in all those appoint-
ments, andunless oar great object was to govern India wells
and to exalt the name of England in the eyes of the whole
native population, all that we had recourse to in the way of
machinery would be of very little use indeed. He admit-
ted that this was a great work; he admitted also that the
further he a ent into the consideration of this question the
more be felt that it was too large for him to grapple with,
and that every step they took in it should be taken as if
they were men walking in the dark. They bad, however,
certain great principles to guide them, and by their light
they might make steps in advance, if not fast, at any rate
sure. But they started from an unfortunate position. They
started from a platform of conquest by force of arms ex-
tending over 100 years. There was nothing in the world
worse than the sort of foundation from which they started.
The greatest genius who had shed lustre on the literature
of this country had said, " There is no sure foundation set
on blood ;" and it might be the unhappy position of this
country that in regard to India we wore verifying the
truth of that saying. We were always subjugators, and
were looked at with hatred and suspicion. He said we
must look at the thing as it was if we wore to see our
exact position, what our duty was, and what chance there
was of our retaining India and governing it for the advan-
tage of its people. Our difficulties had been enormously
increased by the revolt. The people of India had only
seen England in its worst form in that country. They
bad seen it in its military power, its civil service, and in
the supremacy of a handful of foreigners. When natives
came to this country they were delighted. They found
themselves treated with a kindness, a consideration, a
respect, to which they were wholly strangers in their own
country, and they could rot understsa how it was that
men who were so just, so atter tive to them here, some-
times, indeed, too often, appeared to thorn in a different
character in India. (Hear, hear.) He remembered that the
Hon. F. Shaw, who wrote some 30 years since, !dated, in
his able and in,tructive book, that even in his time the con-
duct of the English in India towards the natives was less
agreeable, less kindly, less just than it had been in former
years ; and in 1853, before a committee, presided over by
the hon. member for Huntingdon, evidence was given that
the feeling between the rulers and the ruled in India was
be cming every year less like what could be desired. was
only th, • her day there appeared in a litter of the Tiinesi
correspondent an anecdote which it WAS necessary to repeat
to the house. Mr. Russell, of the Mlles stated :
" I went off to breakfast in a small mosque, which has
been turned into a salle a manger by some officers sta-
tioned here, and I confess I should have eaten with more
satisfaction had I not isreen as I entered the enclosure of
the mosque a native badly wounded on a charpoy, be,
which was sitting a woman in deep affliction. The expla-
nation given of this scene was that '—[the name of
the Englishman was left blank---(hear)--] had been lick-
ing two of his bearers (.I.' servants), and had nearly mur-
dered them.' This was one of the servants, and, without
knowing or caring to know the causes of such chastise-
ment, fcannot but express my disgust at the severity—
to call it no harsher name—of some of our fellow country.
men towards their domestics."
(Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman proceeded to say, the
reading of that paragraph gave me extreme pain. People
may fancy that this dues not matter mush, but I say it
matters very much. (hoar, hoar.) Under any system of
government you will have Englishmen scattered all over
India, and conduct like that I have just read in any dis-
trict must create ill-feeling towards England, to you rule,
to your supremacy; and when that feeling has become
sufficiently extensive any little accident may give lire to
the train, and you will have calamities more or less se-
rious, such as we have had during twelve months. (Hear,
hear.) You must change all this if you mean to keep
India. Wear, hear) I do not make any comment
upon the mode in which this country has been put into
possession of India. I accept that possession as a fact
There we are ; we don't know how to leave it, and there-
fore let us see if we know how to govern it. (Hear,
her.) It is a problem which, perhaps, no other
nation had to solve. Let us see whether there is enough
of intelligence and virtue in England to solve the diffi-
culty. In the first place, then, I say let us abandon all
that system of calumny against the natives of India which
has lately prevailed. (Hear, hear.) Had that people not
been docile—the most governable race in the world, bow
could you have maintained your power for 1 0 years ?
(Hear.) Are not they industrious, are they not intelli-
gent, are they not—upon the evidence of the most dis-
tinguished men the Indian service ever produced—endowed
with many qualities which make them respected by all
Englishmen who mix with them ? I have heard that from
30, perhaps 50, men of the widest experience, and have
read the same iu the works of some of the best writers
upon India. Then, let us not have these constant calum-
nies against such a people. Even now there are men who
go about the country speaking as if such things had never
been contradicted, and talking of mutilations and atroci-
ties committed in India. (Hear, hear.) The less we say
about atrocities the better. (Hear, hear.) Great political
tumults are, I fear, never brought about or carried on
without grievous acts on both sides deeply to be regretted.
At least, we are in the position of invaders and conquerors
—they aro iu the position of the invaded and the con-
quered. Whether I were a native of India, of England,
or of any other conntry, I would not the less assert the
groat distinction between their position and ours in that
country, and I would not permit any man in my presence
without rebuke, to indulge in the calumnies and expres-
sions
of contempt which I have heard poured forth with-
out
measure upon the whole population of India. (Hear,
hear.) There is one other point to which I wish to
address myself baforo I sit down, and in touching upon it
I address myself especially to the noble lord and his col-
leagues in the Government. If I had the responsibility
of administering the affairs of India there are certain
things I would do. I would immediately after this Bill
passed issue a proclamation in India which should reach
every subject of the British Crown in that country, and be
heard of in the territor les of every Indian Prince or Rejah.
I would offer a general amnesty. ( Hear.) It is all very
well to talk of issuing an amnesty to all who have done
nothing; but who is there done nothir g in such a state of
affairs as has prevailed during the past 12 months? If
you pursue your vengeance until you have rooted out and
destroyed every ono of those soldiers who have revolted
when will your labour cease ? (Hoar.) IZ you are to
punish every non-military native of India who bas given
a piece of broad or a cup of vi aStr to a revolted trooper,
how many natives will escape your punishment and your
vengeance ? I would have a general amnesty, which should
be put forth as the first great act done directly by the
Queen of England in her sovereign power over the terri-
tories of India. In this proclamation I would promise to
the natives of Tndia a security for their property as com-
plete as we have here at home, and I would put an end to
all those mischievous and irritating inquiries which have
been going on for years in many parts of India as to the
title to landed estates-- (hear)- -by which you tell the
people of that country that unless each man can show an
unimpeachable title to his property for 90 years you will
dispossess him. What would be the state of things here
if fic4 a tealklatim woo adopted? (Hear) I nulti alto

proclaim to the people of India that we would hold sacred
that right of adoption which has prevailed for centuries in
that country. (Hear.) It was only the other day that I
had laid before me the case of an native pines who has
been most faithful to England (luring these latter trials.
When ho came to the throne at 10 years of age he was
made to sign a document, by which he agreed that if ho
had no children his territories should be at the disposal of
the British Government, or what is called the paramount
power. He has been married ; ho has had one son and two
or three daughters, but within the last few weeks his only
son has died. There is grief in the palace, and there is
consternation among the people, for the fact of this agree-
ment entered into by the boy of 10 years old is well known
to all the inhabitantsof the country. Representations have
already been made to this country in the hope that the Go-
vernment will cancel that agreement, and allow the people
of that State to know the right of adoption would not ho
taken from their prince in case he sbould hive no other
son. Let the Government do that and there is not a
corner of India into which that intelligence would not
penetrate with the rapidi'y of lightning. (Hear, hear.)
And would that not still the anxieties of many of those
in.iependent princes and rajahs who are only afraid that
when these troubles are over the English Government will
recommence that system of annexation out of which I be-
lieve all these troubles have arisen? (Hear, hear.) I
would tell them also in that proclamation that while the
people of England held that their own, the Christian,
religion was true and the best for mankind, yet it was a
doctrine of that religion that those who professed it should
hold inviolable the rights of conscience and the rights of
religion in others. (Hear.) I would show, that whatever
violnt, over zealous, and fanatical men may have said in
this country, the Parliament of England, the Minister of
the Queen, and the Queen herself aro resolved that upon
this point no kind of wrong of the slightest degree shall be
done to the millions who profess the religions held to be
true in India. (Hear, hoar.) I would do another thing.
I would establish a court of appeal, the judges of which
should be judges of the highest character in India, who
should sit somewhere and for some period, and for certain
periods, for the settlement of those many disputes which
have arisen between the Government of India and its sub-
jects, seine native and some European. I would not suffer
these questi, ns to acme upon the ft or of this house. I
would not forbid them by statute, but I would establish a
court which mould render it unnecessary for any man in
India to cross the ocean to seek for that justice which he
would be able to get in his own country without corrup-
tion or seeret bargain. (Hear.) Then I would carry out
the proposition which the noble lord has made to-night, and
which the right hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) made when ho introduced his bill, that a commis-
sion should issue to inquire into the question of finance. I
would have other commissions, one for each presidency,
and I would tell the people of India there should be a search-
ing inquiry into what grievances existed there, and that
it was the interest and the will of the Queen of England
that these grieVances should be redressed. Now, perhaps
I may be to:d that I am proposing strange things quite out
of the ordinary routine of Government. I admit it. We
are in a position that necessitates something out of the ordi-
nary routine. (Hear, hear.) There are positions and
times in the history of every country, as in the lives of
individuals, when courage and action are absolute salva-
tion, and now the Crown of England, acting by the advice
of the responsible Ministers, must, in my opinion, have
recourse to a great and unusual measure in order to allay
the anxieties which prevail throughout the wholeof India.
The people of India don't like us, but they don't know
where to turn to if we left them. They are sheep literally,
without a shepherd. They are people whom you have sub-
dued, and who have the highest and strongest claims upon
you—claims you cannot forget—claims which, if you do not
act upon, you may re!y up.,n that, if their be a judgment
for nations, as I believe there is, as for individuals, our
children at no distant generation must pay the penalv
which we have purchased by neglecting our duty to the
populations of India. (Hear, hear.) I have now stated my
views and opinions on this question, not at all in a manner,
I feel, equal to the question itself. I felt the difficulty in
thinking of it, I felt the difficulty in speaking of it—(bear,
hear) —that there is far more in it and about it than any
man, however much ho may be accustomed to think upon
political questions, and to discuss them, can comprise at
all within the c )mpass of a speech of ordinary length. But
I have described the measures which I would at once
adopt for the purpose of soothing the agitation which now
disturbs and menaces every part of India, and with the
view of inviting the submission of those who are now in
arms against you. Now I believe—l speak in the most per-
feet honesty—l believe that the announcement of these mea-
sures would avail more in restoring tranquillity than th
presence of an additional army, and I believe that their full
and honest adoption would enable you to retain your power
in India. I have sketched the form of government which
I would establish in India and at home, with the view of
securing perfect responsibility and ais enlightened adminis-
tration. I admit that these things can only be obtained
in degree, but I believe that a government such as that
which I have sketched would be free from most of the
errors and most of the vices that have marked and marred
yn,lr pact career In.h I have givin ma-.:h !y 1,,
this great and solemn question. I entreat the house to
study it not only now, during the passing of this bill, but
after the session is over, and till we meet again next year,
when, in all probability, there must be further legislation
upon this great subject—(hear)--for I believe that upon
this question depends very much, for good or for evil, the
future of this country of which we are citizens, and which
we all regard and love so much. You have had enough of
military reputation on eastern fields ; you have gathered
large harvests of that commodity, be it valuable or be it
worthless. I invite you to something better, and higher,
and holier than that ; I invite you to a glory not " fanned
by conquest's crimson wing," bat based upon the solid
and permanent benefits which I believe the parliament of
England can, if it will, confer upon the countless popula-
tions of India. (Loud cheers.)

Mr. WHITESIDE said, he had listened to the speech
of the hon. member for Birmingham with much interest
and no little instruction. The hon. gentleman had deli-
vered to the house his sentiments on what he agreed with
him was one of the greatest and grandest subjects which
could occupy the human mind, and that was how they
were to decide to govern groat nations. The flatterer of
Augustus told him, and with some truth, that to establish
communities, to frame wise and wholesome laws, and to
govern with equity was a godlike task. The hon. gentleman
said they ought to approach the subject with hesitation.
He doubted whether the hon. gentleman was ever found
hesitating at anything. (Laughter.) While ho threw
out that wise and prudent remark, that the affairs of
India were to he discussed with hesitation and caution,
ho straightway proceeded in his own peculiar fashion to
demolish everything that existed in that country in the
shape of government, and told them they might proceed to
erect what he did not very dis inetly explain as a remedy
for the evils which existed. Ho asked a perduent question,
but he (Mr. Whiteside) did not think he answered it.
"What," said he, " would have boon your condition if you
had never had an East India Company ?" Why he (Mr.
Whiteside) should answer that by asking him, " Could we
have had the East Indies to govern or to misgovern ?"
(Hear, hear.) It was very easy to put that question, but it
was not so easy for the hon. gentleman to give a satisfac-
, that we had an empire
twobryi
cba nbs wade r
bteoe
n thisob
tgarienaetd fabcyt
a body of individuals
through a chain of the most surprising actions which were
recorded in history. He confessed his disposition was not
to take leave of the East India Company as the hon. gen-
tleman had clone, in terms of severe sarcasm, but rather
with an expression of admiration and respect. (Hear.)
'Acre were two views to be taken of the. Government of
the Eist Indies. You could point to them with some truth
as a country in which there had been actions dodo at which
we ought to blush--in which there had been exhibited the
worst passions of human nature ; but, on the other hand,
ho maintained that the very historian whom the hon. gen-
tleman had quoted, but to whose authority he would not
defer—because the hon. gentleman yielded to no human
authority—he meant the historian, Mr. Mill, himself
afforded the best vindication of the character
(nldbiaeeCnoarnsked centuries ago by ono of
and general
Ives to be governed. Now, that was
q
world had ever seen. Alexander the
',any. The hon. gentleman
tp,b,
hoail
liugcaeyrssetkaoi
eotf(eilistbth,ole
ulwa Easteicnihiithi
the
Greet had discussed that question with Aristotle, and the
philosopher advised the warrior to act upon the principle
of Greece, to look upon all other nations as barbarians,
and to govern India according to the rule which prevailed
is his own country. Alexander, however, was a man of
sense—(a laugh) - and he replied that Greece was teo small
a country to hold a mighty empire upon an exeluaivo
principle—(hear, hear) - that if India wore gained by
force of arms, the next step was to establish a Govern-
inent which would be acceptable to the people of the
country ; in fact, that they must be governed but not Co-
erced.hen' ) Now, that repy contained a sound
principle of and ho was prepared to maintain
thnt
the
English rule in India, although, of course, open
to some censure, had, during the period for which we had
held that country—a conquest and a holding which has
been described by a distinguished foreigner as a modern
miracle—had teen more just and more beneficent than any
rule to which the people of India had beers beforesubjected.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman had touched upon
°my conceivable subject in reference to India--education,
the cultivation of the land, the administration of justice,
country,
his intention to enter
willing to confess that Ire
y, and a great number
iofinrntoaotnbscuee
such
subjects.ntldetr4e
ilse andNe Now,
(itoiht ewwcaosaus
should feel himself incapable of at once grappling with
those great questions.. To attempt to do so would be, as
had been described by his eminent countryman Mr. Cur-
ran, to attempt to grasp a sphere whore each attempt
caused it to roll further from one's grasp. As regarded
the mere question of the tenure of land, there were various
Some persons approved the settlement of Lord
Cornwallis, and others approved the mode of settlement
in Madras and the North-Western Provinces, and ho
e ns
otl em
withn ha i nis e f , in dealing with
feeling
of respect for
those persons who had made those settlements. The hon.
gentleman had lei I down the principle that the govern-
ment of India should he based upon the principle of
theth
thought o
question,h at
tale
would do dog
action and boldness. Now, he could understand that
those pm • ciples should be adopted in the mitigation
of taxes, in the reduction of expenditure, and in every
measure calculated to promote the welfare of the people ;
but if the hon. gentleman by action and boldness meant
the introduction of a mixed system of law, he made
as great a mistake as it was' possible for a public man
to commit. As he had lately read in a work upon the
rise and pr gross of an empire the go-ahead principle of
endeavouring to override the various habits and customs
of the east might produce incalculable mischief. There
was not a nobler page in history than that which recorded
the opinion of Sir W. Jones to Lord Cornwallis upon the
mode of governing India. That distinguished scholar and
eminent man had laid down the same principle which Alex-
ander the Great had laid down before him— namely, y that a
nation which meant to hold the East must do eo by acting
in accordance with the habits, manners, and customs of
the people. That such must be so was evident. The
people of the East believed their laws to Proceed directly
from the Deity, and in the East the code of law and a
reference to the Divinity were iuseparably connected.
Would it be wise, then, to entrust to an uncontrolled sac•
rotary of state, whose mind was itnbii,d with Western
Politics, the power of arbitrarily interfering with or alter-
ing laws and customs which the people of the Best suppose
to emanate from the Deity 7 Why, any imprudent attempt
at change might cost the lives of 100,000 men.
(Elea'', bear.) Tice idea of the hon. gentleman, that the
government of India should he entrusted to a minister
uncontrolled in any way, and unassisted by the advice of
learned and experienced men, could not be too strongly
deprecated, Why, such a minister, if he were possessed
of a mind and body as active as that of the hon. gentleman
the member for Birmingham, if ho ENw anything in the
Indian system which he thought an absurdity, if he saw
anything central y to Manchester nolious, would most pro-
bably forget all about ancient habits and customs, and
do that which would give rise to roost serious difficulties,.
But, let the house observe the inconsistency of the aegis-
raent of the hon. gentleman. The hon. gentleman com-
plained that the Governor-General of India was uncon-

trolled, and yet he wished to confide the naanagena;nTa

Indian
affairs to a person subject to the control of nobody. made by. Pitt. He introduced the Board of Control,
If it were so difficult to find a proper person to act as do- which, in fact, overruled the government of lades
vernor-General of India without control, :where was an by the _Hest India Company. When this was done
uncontrolled Secretary for India to be obtained? Mush there was intro lueed a power that governed India
had been said in reference to Parliamentary responsibilits, without responsibility, and fir m that had arisen, he
but, of er all, what did that amount to I A secretary for believed, all the mischief that had followed from the go-
India might lose that empire, but when he hell done that verument of India. The real government of India was the
of what use was his Parliamoutarytespond bill ty ? ( Hear, Pr sident of the 13 ard of Control, while the ostensible rulers
hear.) The hon. and learned member for Sheffield might were the Board of Dine- tors with an irresponsible power.
probably move a vote of censure upon such a Minister, and But when he brought forward a resolution condemning the
might carry it—(a laugh)---but what use would that be Board of Control on the occasion of the Affshan war, the
when our empire in India was destroyed ? But the house members of the Board of Directors in that house voted
had laid down the principle that there should be a council against him ; and yet they professed to condemn the
which was to act as a control and as the advisers of the Affghan war It must be acknowledged that the East
minister charged with the government of India ; and he India Company had built up such an empire as the world
was sure that if the hon. and learned gentleman would never saw before; but the result had been such a revolt as
take a short course of reading on Indian subjects for six mankind never saw before. (Hear, bear.) He considered
months, he would withdraw all the speeches against that , that the bill of Lord Palmerston was a far better one than
plan which he had made of late. Considering that we the one now before the house, which was a thing of shreds
in this country bad undertaken, as hon. gentleman and patches, brought in under pressure, and which, though
had said the task of governing twenty nations living 'it might pas; would suffer a speedy death. The bill of
at a great distance from us, no doubt we bad to face the Chancellor of the Exchequer ho believed to have been'
a difficulty ; but it was not an impossible thing for an• concocted by the late and present Presidents of the Board
intelligent and powerful country to govern a country of Control; but it was of so extraordinary a character,
like India even from a distance. That empire had that every one saw it could not pass. The Government
always been so governed. Akbar Khan had so governed then fell back on resolutions which in fact embodied the
her. It was not a sound doctrine to say that we could not bill of the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; but those resole],
hold and govern distant countries. Austria had several tions they had been compelled to abandon, and now an-
distant countries under her rule ; you compltiined of it, but other bill was before the house.r,On the principle of trans-
it was a fact, she con rived to do it, and was a powerful ferring the government of India to the crown, and adtninis-
state in Europe. The hon. gentleman had talked groat tering that government through a responsible minister, all
good sense when ee talked of the wars and the annexation were agreed; but the cork which floated the measure was
which he de: razated. But let us be just to the East India the great principle that the council was to be partiy else-
Company. There could be no stronger protest against that tive and responsible; but it would in reality be responsible
system than was taken in Mr. t'ucker's note on the subject to no human being. The council of fifteen would be there
of Affghanisten. -But of what good was your boasted Par- for life; the Minister would come in and go out with the
liamentary responsibility ? When his right hon. friend the Government; but the permanent members would be respon-
Chancellor of the Exchequer brought forward a motion siblo to nobody. The only way to avoid that was to give
eondemnatoryof that policy, why did not Parliament sup- the minister power to do just as he liked. A more 'iris-
port him ? He would rather prefer to this notion of Par- chievoas way of governing a country could not be con-
liamentary responsibility a coo cil of experienced and sen- ceived. The 27th clause provided that all orders and direc-
sible men who would eedeavour to avoid such a policy and tions which would have been sent through tho secret corn-
such errors as the hon. gentleman had spoken of. He did mittee might be isued by the Minister of the Crown
not understand that we were less likely to get into troubles without consulting the Council. The real governors of
by having an uncontrolled secretary of state for India, for India would turn out to be the Council, who would be
in the course of a Parliamentary recess we might have a wholly irresponsible, and this would be tho rook on which
war, with which all that Parliament would have to do the scheme would split.
would be to pay the bill. The hon, gentleman had spoken Mr. T.BARING said he had all along opposed legislation
well on the subject of annexation. He (Mr. Whiteside) bad for India in the present state of affairs, but be found him-
read the history of the annexation of many of those states self in a minority when the noble lord the member for
of which we bad taken possession. The principle of legality Tiverton was in office, and he was in a similar position
was set aside, and you had not paid the least respect to the now. Although it would have been wise to postpone the in.
ancient laws of the country. The doctrine on that subject auguration of a new system of government until a measure
had been expounded by Sir W. Jones' 'who showed that it wasproposedwhich couldnothave been met with owelttioer,
had been acted on by the Greeks and Romans in all their yet after the repeated decisions of the house he shod not
conquests, but which had been sat aside by Lord Del- oppose the second leading of the bill. The hon. gentleman
housie, when he set at nought the ancient custom of the who had just sat down had advised that there should be a
country. The laws of iubetitance and marriage had been Parliamentary Government for India; but Parliament
interfered with most unwisely. it was a
_mistake to say could never govern India, and he entered his protest
that such things did not affect the army. General Briggs against the views of the hon. and learned gentleman (Mr.
said in a work of his that any change in the laws of the Roebuck). The right hon. gentleman (Hr. V. Smith) ha I
country thrilled through the army. If therefore there was stated that there was no difference between the bill of the
any sudden change made is the laws or customs of the present Government and that of the noble lord the mem-
country it operated on the military power, and the results ber for Tiverton, but he thought there was the widest dif-
would be bloodshed and revolt. The government of India ference, !the present Government proposed an independent
therefore required the greatest amount of wisdom, caution, I Council, whereas the Council proposed by the need° lord
and prudence, and that he hoped would be possessed by the 1 (Lord Palmerston) gave the nomination to the Crown, each
council which it was proposed to establish. The hon. gen- member holding his office for a short time only. The pre-
Liman spoken of the future policy to be observed towards sent bill gave the power of filling up vacancies to the ex-
India, and he had urged the declaration of an amnesty
; isting council men who would be wall acquainted with the
but all that was not his own thunder, for it had all been condition and the demands of India, and who would know
laid down already by his right hon. friend the Chancellor precisely the man who should be selected. (Hear, hear.)
of the Exchequer; but he could not agree with the hon. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
member for Birmingham, who, if he were suddenly in- committed to-morrow. ,
vested with absolute authority, would proceed to make great NISI PRIUS COURT (IRELAND) BILL.
changes in the laws and customs of India ; for he (Mr. This bill was read a third time and passed.
Whiteside) believed with Bacon, that sudden changes of RAILWAY ACT (IRELAND) CONTINUANCE BILL.
laws and customs led to revolutions. He differed also with This bill passed through committee.
the honourable gentleman with regard to his estimate PORTENDIC AND ALBREDA CONVENTION BILL.
of the character of the East India Company. He bad, This bill passed through committee, and was ordered
however, listened with pleasure to the speech of the hon. for third reading to-morrow.
gentleman, and he only hoped that the picture which the CLERK OF PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND) STAMPS.
hon. gentleman had sketched of a happy future for India This bill went through committee.
would be realised ; but believing as he did that this would CLERK OF PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
be a great and difficult task for any Government so he be- This bill passed through committee.
lieved that it would require the most watchful care to per- ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BIL
form it wisely and well. He believed that Parliament This bill was read a second time.
bad taken a prudent and sensible course in adopting the CHIEF JUSTICE OF BOMBAY BILL.
principle of a council in the government of India. He This bill was read a second time.
agreed in the plan which had been laid down by his noble SALE AND TRANSFER OF L AND (IRELAND)
friend, and he hoped that some portion of the future of BILL.
India which the hon. gentleman had sketched would be I The house went into committee on this bill, commencing
realised, as he held with the hon. gentleman that the end with clause 51, which had reference to the mortgage of
and duty of government was not the f also glory of cm- property.
quest, but the happiness of the people. (Hear.) Mr. DOBBS moved the omission of this clause, thinking
Mr. P. O'BRIEN' urged that the matter for considers- it would enable persons to go to the court to obtain a
tion was not the past government or misgovernment of fraudulent declaration of title.
India, but the establishment of a system for its future Mr. GROGAN trusted the committee would notsanction
government. He wished to see a responsible Minister, and the omission of the clause, which he considered essential
a responsible council to advise the responsible Minister. to the bill. •
Mr. V. SMITH regretted .the course which had been Mr. S. MILLER supported the clause.
pursued on the present occasion, and thoughtit would have Mr. BUTT would rather see the bill abandoned than
been much.better to have discussed the principles of the that this clause should be struck out.
itrees uon the set.riid roAdinj 'irtn to !:a•-c! pa 3tponed the The committee then divided on the question that the
discussion for the committee.. The house had only asserted 51st clause Blend I stand part o the Lill
one principle, on which the two first bills were founded— Ayes
namely, the resumption by the Crown of the powers of the Noes
company, and that there should be someesort of council to Majority in favour of the clause —l23
assist the Secretary of State. The remarks of the hon. mem- Clause 51 was agreed to, and
ber for Birmingham applied more to the future than to the The CHAIRMAN reported progress.
present; and although he differed from many of those re- COMPENSATION OF EXECUTORS, &c., BILL.
marks, he thought them well worthy of the consideration This bill passed through committee. - •
of the house. The hon. member thought the presidencies LEGITIMACY DECLARATION BILL.
ought to be divided. That question was discussed by the This bill was read a second time.
committee of 1853, and it was matter of grave considers- BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS.
tion whether, on creating an additional Colonial-office, the Mr. KIRK moved that the order for the renewal of the
presidencies might not be divided ; but still it would be debate on this bill be discharged, which was agreed to
requisite to have some central authority. The other clues- without a division.
tions which the hon. member had discussed were of great The house then adjourned at one o'clock.
importance—whether there ahould not ba a general am-
nesty, and what ought to be the treatment of the native
princes hereafter. Now he (Hr. Smith) thought the con-
duct of the native princes who had stood by this country
ought to be rewarded in a suitable manner, particularly
the Minister of the Nizam, and another Minister, who, ac-
cording to the statement of Major Macpherson, kept back
a contingent for four months, and thus materially assisted
in the preservation of India, for bad that contingent been
allowed to march down rapidly it would have been a much
more difficult matter to save Lucknow. He agreed with
the hon. member for Birmingham that a bill ought to have
been introduced in 1853, and entertained no doubt that if
some improvements had been effected at that time many
of the difficulties which had since occurred would hake
been prevented. But he went further than the hon. mem-
ber, and thought that a change ought to have been effected
in 1833, for the moment the commercial functions of the
company ceased their political functions ought also to
have ceased. The noble lord (Stanley) had stated that in
the present bill he had adopted the number of councillors
sanctioned by the resolution which had been agreed
to by the house. But the noble lord had gone beyond
the correct version of that resolution because it declared
that the number should not be less than 12 or more than
15, whilst he adopted the maximum. The question of the
appointment of the council was one of immense importance,
and its constitution ought to be very narrowly examined.
He considered a council of 15 would be cumbrous, incon-
venient, and dilatory. And then with respect to commit-
tees' there were six departments of the Board of Control,
and he thought it would be much better that each of them
should be represented by one member rather than by a
committee. Responsibility, when spread over numbers,
was greatly weakened, and yet responsibility was one of
the main objects of the bill. The system which had been
pursued by the Board of Control and the Court of Direc-
tors had been one of compromise, and there was some PlE-
in the remark of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield
that the system was a more sham. But how did the noble
lord propose to get rid of that sham ? By forming such a
largo council that it must necessarily be 'a sort of sham.
He was glad that the noble lord had gone tee length of
abolishing the secret committee, but regretted that he had
struck out the limitation as to increase of expenditure, for
if the council was to be of any use at all, it would be ex-
tremely useful in controlling any unnecessary expenditure
on the part of the Secretary of State. The noble lord had
talked of the introduction of competition in the services cf
the artillery and engineers. Ho trusted the noble lord
would keep the college at Addiscombs, and extend 'it,
rind render it more useful than it had hitherto been.
He was glad that the noble lord had given up the electisn
by constituencies. But what he had subssituted was (rely
nomination by another body—nomination by the directors
instead of nomination by the Crown. Now, he trusted the
committee would press the noble lord still further, Co as to
secnre nomination by the Crown alteigether. A new prin-
ciple had been announced by the noble lord— the appoint-
ment of a commission of inquiry into the organisation of
the army. That was a very desirable measure, but he
thought members of the Council might be appointed who
would be able to conduct the inquiry in a perfectly satis-
factory manner. The next point was that the noble lord
proposed to put in his bill the appointment of the, council
of the Governor-General. Now, '
he did not think that any
persons could be found who could be so well en-
trusted with the appointment of tho council as
the Governor-General and the governors of the presi-
dencies. He did not think that the Company had always
made the best selection. They had always gone, it appeared
to him, on the principle of seniority. He had ventured to
make these observations on the bill now rather than wait
until the bill was in committee. He cordially concurrsd in.
the second reading of the bill, which, in fact, he considered
was now nearly the same bill as that of the noble lord the
member for Tiverton, the greatest difference being that by
this bill there would be a Secretaryof State for India, while
by the bill of the noble lord (Lord Palmerston) there would
have been a President of the Council. (Oh.) Besides which,
he admitted there was the principle of election, instead
of nomination. He only regretted that the house would
not go one step further, and take up the bill of his noble
friend.

REINFORCEMENTS FOR INDIA.

Col. SYKES said, with regard to the administration of
justice in India, from 98 to 99 per cent of the whole num-
ber of cases decided were determined by native judges.
And with regard to the constituency by whom the mem bet
of the council might be elected, he would undertake to
find a constituency of three or four thousand persons, re-
tired military and civil servants of the company, who had
resided in India. He did not approve of the provision
which prevented members of the council sitting in that
house. For 15 years members of the Court of Directors had
sat in the house, and they wore as likely to come into con-
flict with the President of the Board of Control as the
members of the proposed council wero with the Secretary
of State for India. Why deprive the house of the benefit
of the knowledge of thoso parsons ?
Mr. LIDDELL said ho did not rise to prolong the dis-
cussion, but for the purpose of putting a question—whe-
ther a communication had been made from the Court of
Directors to her Majesty's Government on the subject of
the measure now before the house ?
Mr. ROEBUCK said it was with great reluctance that
he intruded himself on the notice of the house on this
occasion. He knew well that he was in a small minority,
and that anything that ho might say would have no in-
fluence with the house. But as he believed that the opi-
nion which he hold was true he would not shrink from
uttering it. He I”lieved that this bill was not des-
tined for any long existence. It had been brotight
forward under pressure, and by persons unwilling to
do the thing that they were doing, and who, when they
wore out of office, took a course directly opposite to that
which they were now taking. When in opposition, in their
judgment the proper course was that there should be no
'violation; butjwhen!they were in office they found cthem-
salves coerced by the majority of the house to do that which
they were now doing. He hoped the house would allow
him for a few moments to pass a retrospect upon the sub-
ject pf India. Something more than a century ago a band
of merchants began to trade in India. They acquired a
footing in India, and a power over the people of India.
As time went on the Government of Eng and encroached
more and more on the government of India, and in reality
absorbed the whole power. The next stop was to compel
the East India Company to cease from trading. The con-
sequence of that was that there was a body of men called
traders who did not trade, and who were supposed to be the
political rulers of a country which in fact they did not rule.
Their next step had been to take away iv t only the reality,'
but the nune and power from the company. The last
great political change to which he should refer was that ,

Yesterday the Duke of Cambridge, Commander-in-
Chief, arrived at C hatham for the purpose of inspecting
the battalions of infantry and the draughts of the East
India depots at t hat garrison under orders to embark
for India. His Royal Highness, who was accompanied
by Major-General Sir R. Airey, K.C.8., the Q tarter-
master-General, and Colonel Charles Tyrwhitt, his aide-
deeeamp, was received at Chatham station by Colonel
H. Byte, the commandant of the garrison, and on cross-
ing the drawbridge leading inside the fortified works a
royal salute of 21 guns was fired. The troops belonging
to the three battalions were drawn up on the inner lines
in review order, and presented a very imposing appear!
ance, there being 5,000 men of all ranks on the ground.
The battalions were arranged in the following order :-
Ist battalion, under the command of Colonel H. J,rvie,
consisting of the 7th Royal Fus'l iers, 24th, 32nd Li, bt
Infantry, 35th, 43rd Light Infantry, and 53rd Regi-
ments ; 2nd hattelion, commanded by Col. R.N. Philltps,
comprising the 10th, 20tb, 23d Royal Welch Fusil.ers,
29th, 52d Light Infantry, and 61st Regiments ; 3d bat-
talion, under the command of Lieu.-Col. C. E. Fair-
tlough, including the Bth, 19th, 70tb, 75th, 81st, 84th,
and 94th Regiments. The troops having been formed by
depots, the Duke of Cambridge, attendee by Gen. Airey,
Col. Tyrwbitt, Col. Eyre, Col. H. Sandhatn, command-
ing the Royal Engineers, and other officers of the staff,
arrived on the lines at 11 o'clock, the troops receiving
his Royal Highness in the usual manner. The Date
then proceeded to make a minute inspection of the de-
pots comprising the three baAalions, and likewise in-
spected the noie commissioned officers and men who are
under orders to embark for India. On the conclusion
of the inspection, which occupied some time, the batta-
lions broko into open column and marched past in slow
and quick time, his Royal Highness expressing to
Colonel Eyre his general tati-faction at the appear-
ance of the troops. On the termination of the review
f te troops of the Una his loyal Highness inspected
the Royal Engineers, the men of which corps were also
drawn up on the lines, under the cctemand of Lieut.-
Colonel A. P. G. Rees. The Duke, after leaving the
Hues, proceeded with a numerous staff to the buts at
Prince Henry's Bastion, which were occupied by the
troops belonging to the 31 battalion, for the purpose of
making an examination of the encampment which has
been recently formed at the rear of the huts. His Royal
liighneA rode through the camp, the whole of the troops
having been turned out to receive him. The new bell-
shaped tents, similar to those which were nied in the
Crimea, s‘hich have just been erected for a portion uf
the infantry, were also examined by him, his Royal
Highness expressing his approval of the manner in
which they bad been arranged, and also of the site
chosen for the camp. Thee° tents are a great improve-
ment on those formerly used, and appear to be better
adapted for military purposes ; the corps at present
using them is the 19th Regiment, nearly 300 men of
which are now under canvass. While at the huts his
Royal Highness inspected the new model canteen, which
has been erected by Mr. Budden. Before leaving, the
Duke expressed his opinion that it was the beat building
of the kind he had ever seen. After leaving the huts
his ROyal Highness and staff rode to the Spur Batt-ry,
where a portion of the Ist battalion are encamped. The
Duke occasionally 14oked in at the interior of the tents, .
which appeared to be perfect models of cleanliness and
order. These tents are larger than those recently erected
for the 3d battalion, each tent accommodating 16 men,
the troops sleeping on small bedsteads adapted for tent
use. His Royal Highness was occupied until two o'clock
in the inspection a the camp and troops, when be left
th 4 garrison and returned to the Horse Guards, the guys
from the saluting battery firiog a Royal salute on his
leaving the garrison. • •

NAVAL AND MILITARY I.NTELLIGENCF.

In consequence of the length of time required to make
good the defects of the Vulcan, steam troop-ship, Com-
modore Seacombe, it is understood that the officers and
crew will turn over to the Perseverance. The latter is
fitted with Conningharn'a patent reefing topsails, being
the first chip in her Majesty's service so fitted.
The screw steam frigate Racoon, 21, Captain J. A.
Paynter, Laving had defects made good, sailed from Ply-
mouth on Wednesday for Spithead.
The screw steamship Brunswick, 80, Capt. E. Om-
maney, went from Harneaze into Plymouth Sound on
Wednesday.
Her Majesty's yacht Victoria and Albert, Captain the
form. Joseph Darman, loft Portsmouth harbour at 6
o'clock last night on her cruise.
Mr. Samuel W. Garratt, senior member of the firm of
Garrett, Gibtron, and S':DEt agents to Lloyds,-bas been
appointed by the American Goverurarent United States
consular agent for P. r'smouth.
The Geliatle 80, eertree line-of-battle cteaurer, bas pro-
ceeded from Chatham to Sheerness for the purpose of
heidg attached to the steam reserve.
The following appointments were made yesterday at
the Admiralty :—Sir L. Loraine, irate, and C. G.
Jonee, mate to her Majesty's Royal yacht Victoria and
Albert ; P. R. Parker, midshipman, to the Cas-ar ; J.
Allen, acting assistant surgeon, to the Victory ; C. W.
Jones, aed J. T. Kilgour, naval cadets, to the Curaeoa ;
W. B. Turner, and F. Hicks, naval cadets, to the Marl-
borough ; A. H. Bradshaw, A. Little, and W. G. L,
Cocq, naval cadet, to the Brueewick ; E. W. Wickham,
J. A. Dash wood, F. Gareault, and E. R. Matthias,- na-
val cadets, to the Caesar ; E. A. Botellas, and F. D. E.
Jerninglaam, naval cadets, to the Renown ; C. A.. Blake,
H. H. Justice, and J. Bradford, naval cadets, to the
Orion; A. Grenfell, naval cadet, to the Diadem.

• THE MILITIA.. -
The coloneloy of the Suut►h lipperary Militia Artillery
le vacant by the death of the Earl of Gilengall,