The Sun.
London, England, 1804-03-29 00:00:00

LISKEARD ELECTION..

Mr. SHERIDAN presented a Petition from
Thomas Sheridan, Esq. complaining of an Unt'ue
Eledion for the Borough of Lisk,:ard. After slat-
ing that he wished to propose that the Petition
should be taken into consideration .on the first open
day after that fixed for the consideration of the:PC.
Orion of Right, he observed, that he thought it
uiterly impossible that the House could suffer the
other Petition ftom Mr. Hiv.kisson to be taken into
consideration previous to the discussion of the Peti-
tion of Right, as it was impossible to say that the
Committee on either Petition might not go into the
merits, which would interfere with the consideration
of the right.
The SPEAKER observed that the only question
which could then be put, was r.:pr,`ling the day
for taking the Petition just presented into can-.
sideration.
Mr. SHERIDAN then moved that it should be
taken into consideration on Monday the 23:1
April.—Ordered.
Mr. SHE I DAN afterwards moved the reading of
the order of the day, for taking into consideration,
on the 9th of April, the Petition of Mr. 1-lusK
SON. - _

Mr. PITT urged, that there had been no re.
gular notice given to move the postponement of the
consideration of this Petition, and therefor:. at any
rate, such a motion ought to be delayed. With a
view to the consistency of- their proceedings, they
ought to adhere to what they had already done,
unless some very strong reasons were shewn to d-c
contrary. It was also consistent with the pranice
cf the House, that a double return shOuld have the
priority in consideration, whilst in this the sues.
tion resFßing that return could not interfere wi h
the question of right. It was wholly uncertain
when ft at question of right would be determined;

and, it, the 'meantime, aemtaing to the proposition
‹)1 the Hon.-Gentleman, the House was to be kept
without any Member being there to represent the
Borough of Liskeard.
Mr. SITERIDAA said, -he had given notice o'n
the preceding day that he intended to move to de-
fer the consideration of Mr. HUSKISSON'S Petition
until after the discussion of the Petition of Right.
As to the argument, that thereby the House might
'be kept without any Representative for Liskeard,
lit begged leave to observe, that if the other Can_
didate chose to give notice that he would not de.
fend the double return, Mr. Husxissort might be

:kept out of his scat for sixty days.
Mr. PITT observed, that if such a notice as
that mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman was given,
the House would know Low to proceed, but the
threat of giving such a notice was no argument for
deferring the consideration of the Petition.
Mr. BURROUGHS observed, that the former
order was.made with the consent of all parties, and
it ought .not to be rescinded without due notice.-
Mr. SHERIDAN explained.
The SECRETARY at WAR observed, that no
question affcaing the right was likely to arise
out of the consideration of Mr. EiusxISSON'S Pe-

•
•
The.question was then put for reading the order
of the day, and negatived.

LORD HOOD—TOULON.
The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER
moved the order of the day for the House to re_
.solve itself into a Committee of Supply, and that
the papers respefting Lord Hoop's claims relative
to the captures at Toulon should be referred to the
said Committee ; which was ordered.
The House having resolved itself into a Corn-
.mittce,

• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
stid, he had to call the attention of the Committee
to a suljed, which he could not help thinking re-
quired all that indulgence and liberality which they
were always accustomed to shew to the exertions
of the British Navy, a subjea which connected it-
self with one of the most splendid exertions of our
Navy,during the last War, and related to Officers
and Seamen as meritorious as any in, the British
Service. It was impossible that any one could
doubt the merit of the service performed by Lord
-loan at Toulon. The present subjed afreded the
interests of Lord Hoon, Lord KEITH, Lord RaD-
sTocr, and other distinguished Officers, and of all
the Officers and Seamen under the command of
Lord Floors, upon that ;occasion, who were now liv.
ing, and the families of those who weredeceased,
411 were involved in the consideration of the sub.
jell, which he felt it incumbent upon him to sub.
mit soetlte•Committee. It was not his intention
to go into any particular detail with respee.).--toe the
surrender of Toulon ; it would be recolreded that
the inhabitants of the Southern Part of France,
*weary .of the worst•of tyranny that ever degraded
the human race, expressed a wish to be placed under
the authority of the legitimate Heir of their ninr-
deredSovereign. In consequence of this, Lord HOOD
became possessed of the Town_anci Harbour of To.
Lin, and several French Ships, wliich, by s.Conven.
Lion, went to, be held, in part, for,Louts. XVII.
to whom they were to be restored. During the con-
s' mince t, of f. Wur t elit.e'the natuic
Or the terms agreed upon, precluded.Lord,Hoodfrom
claiming any,
,remuneration f9r himself and the
cers and Seamen under his command. After the
R,atification.of the Definitive Treaty of Pace, Lord
I-loon pfesented a Memorial to His Majesty, claim-
ing .a reward. for the Officers and Seamen, on ac.
count of the French Ships destroyed and taken pos.
seesion of at Toulon, together with their Ordnance
and Stores. His Majesty was pleased to refer the
Memorial to the Privy Council, a Committee of
whom took it,into consideration. It was the opi.
nion of that Committee, that it was not expe-
dient to grant any remuneration for the ten sail of
the line; and other vessels which were destroyed,
because it ,was not the practice to grant remunera.
tion for Ships destroyed at sea, it was only when
they were captured that the Captors becaMe enti-
tled to Prize-money, Head.money, &c. The Coma
mittee of Privy Council however recommended that
a remuneration should be given for those ships which
were brought away from Toulon, and afterwards
employed in His Majesty's service. It was then
referred to :he Lords of the Admiralty, and to the
Master General of the Ordnance, to report the va-
lue of those -ships, and of the ordnance and stores
taken in them. The Lords of the Admiralty re-
ported the value of the ships at 236,74.26 and the
_valueof the ordnance and stores at 28,594.1.14.5.10 id.
On these- reports being received, the Committee of
Council recommended the granting of a remuneration
to Lord Floor), which was approved of by His Majes-
ty in Council, and it was upon this recommendation
approved of by His 'Majesty, that he submitted the
proposition for remuneraticnto the Committee. In
considering this subject, let. it be remembered, that
in this instance, the Officers and Seamen of His Ma.
jesty's Navy -had been favoured in a similar manner
to that now proposed. At the Helder several Dutch
Ships were taken possession of by Admiral M IT.
CHE Li, in the name of the Sradtholder; and without
detrafling from the merit of that service, would any.
man say that the service performed by Lord HOOD at
Toulon, did not establish at least an equal claim to
the gratitude of the Country ? The Ships taken at
the Fielder, were libelled in the Court of Ad-
miralty, but, never condemned : the Ships taken
by Lord HooD, at Toulon, had not been li.
belled; but, would any man say, that if they
had, they might not have been condemned. The
distindion, however, was immaterial. The value
was given for the Ships taken at the Fielder. The
two other instances were, the. Ships destroyed by
Lord NELSON at Aboukir, and those destroyed and
taken at Copenhagen, in both which compensation
was given. He only asked that the House would
sot, in this instance, take advantage of the want of
condemnation, and that they would give the Officers
and Seamen employed at Toulon the value of those
. Ships which they had taken, and which had been
employed in His Majesty's Service. It might be
asked, if the claim he now made was so just, how
ii happened that it was not brought forward sooner ?
FKOM the nature of the terms agreed upon with re.
spe& to the Ships taken possession of, it was evident

it could not be hrouglit forward tinting the War. Af-
terwards, some time was taken up in the considera- 1
tion of the subjett. The Reports of the Board of
Admiralty and Ordnance were made on the 31st
of March and the ist of April last year. There
was no necessity to recal to the -•recolletlion of
Gentlemen how much Governtnent and Parliament
had been employed from the rat of April to the
end of the last Session. On the 3 tst of August •
the Privy Council finally recommended the re-
muneration, and it was approved *1 by His Ma-
jesty. He did not think it proper to bring for-
ward a subjeti of such importance ir. the present -
Session previous to the Christmas Recess, when the
attendance was thin, and afterwards it had been
delayed from obvious reasons. He wished, how-
ever, that whatever blame might he attached to the
delay, it might be wholly imputed to him, and
that it might not be suffered to injure the cause of
Lord Hoot), or the Officers and Seamen who were
under his command, and who, he trusted, would
experience that attention and indulgence which the
House were always disposed to shew to British Offi.
cers and British Seamen. He concluded by moving,
that a sum not exceeding 265,3361. be granted to
His Majesty, to be distributed to the Officers and
Seamen under the "command of Lord HOOD at the
capture of Toulon, being the estimated value of
the ships and vessels taken possession of upon that
occasion, and the ordnance and stores on . board

them.
Mr. PIER POINT bore testimony to the merits
of Lord Hoon in the affair at Toulon, and warmly'
supported the proposed measure. • • ;
Mr. jOHNSTONE observed, that they were not
in the least called upon to decide respe&ing the'ho-
. nour of Lord Hoon, or 'of the Officers under his
command. the present being merely a'question of
right.. 'Upon this- subjea he wished to understand
clistinelly; whether the Right Hon. Gentleman put
it as a Question of Right, or a Question of Libera-
lity.- An Appeal upon such an .occasion was cer_
.
tainly never made to the House in vain ; but the ones.
tion here appeared to him to be in a .. very narrow
compass : it was, whether the: Ships which had come
into our possession 'at Toulon, were Prize or not
Prize. The Ships were taken possession of in
trust for Louts XVII. ;.-and it api•eared to him
that they did not come • into our possession as
Prize, but by Convention ; and. supposing that
Personage to be restored to the Throne .-of
France, -would he not .have a right to call-for
the restoration of those vessels ? The case of- the'
vessels taken at the Helder,. bore no analogy to the
present, as they were libelled,in the Court of Ad.
miralty, being claimed as prizes by the Captors ;
that had not been done in the-present case. Whe.
ther, however, the Vessels were captured or not,
the Land Army were entitled to an equal share.—
He did not urge doubts for the purpose of opposing
the proposition in the' first instance, but he wished
the question to be decided, whether the vessels
.at
Toulon_ were prizes or not prizes—and upon . thii
subject he wished .to hear the opinion of a Right
Hon.. Gentleman (Sir Wm. Sc OTT). It. might per.
haps, he too much to say, if they were not prizes,
that under—the present •financial difficulties of the
Country, so large a stim should be granted to Lord

H00p..• - •
Sir HOME. POPHAM said, that the .question
involved not only the interests of Lord HOOO, hitt
of the service to-which he had the honour to belong.
He believed the case had not been fairly stated, ei-
ther' by the CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER Or
the Hon.. Gentleman (Mr. JOHNSTONE). Lord
Hoot appeared off Toulon with t 4 Sail of the Line;
there were 17 Sail of the Line in :Toulon Harbour.
Lord Hoot) made dispositions for an.. attack ;, he
disembarked his Troops, and took possession of Fort
La IVlalgue.. He tilen sent to the French Admiral
(SAINT JULIEN), informing him that if he did not
surrender he would
.be fired upon by the Fort, whilst
the English Fleet would enter at the same time.
There was certainly no secret negotiation between
Lord HOOD and Admiral ST. JUL I EN, it was a fair
i,sue of their powers. Lord HOOD'S Force was in-
ferior, but the name he had acquired did the rest.
ST. JuLIEN quitted his Ship, and was foll Owed by
the crews of seven sail of the line. But no COnven-
lion was entered into between the two Commanding
Officers. Lord Hoot) abed the part of an able Officer,
and afterwards of an able Statesman, as he conciliated
the people of the South of France by taking pos-
session of Toulon in the name of
,Louis XVII. - So
far from there being any convention, the whole
was a' Military operattoo, the result of which asto-
nished ail Europe. If .an idea was to go abroad
that there' were doubts as to the proposed remunera-
tion, 'would it not operate very much against the
Country, if it was.to be, understood amongst our
Naval Force, that when by converitioo; united with
t~
attack,' an advantage was gained, :oo remuneration
was to be granted.? If Lord Hoop had asked for
remuneration during the War, whilst these ships
were held in -trust for Louis XVII. would it not
-have been considered as an ad of indelicacy ? It
had been said, that the ships ought to have been
libelled in the Court of Admiralty ; but was it nor
,more regular to present a .Memorial to His Majesty ?
He hoped the House would Consider the case ex. •
ally as it stood, without suffering any quibble of
:law, or trifling irregulatitY, to inpeoce their'
judgment.
Mr. CREVEY thought the subjed did not pro-
perly come before the Council, but ought to have
been decided upon in the Court of Admiralty.
- The- CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that the Hon. Gent. (Sir HOME. POPHAM) had
supposed that he had stated that there was a Con-
vention between Lord HOOD and the. French Ad-
miral, he only meant that the whole proceedings
were in the nature of a Convention, and the ships
were taken possession of in the name of Louis the
XVIIth. Lord Hoot., he conceived, had a strong
claim upon the liberality of Parliament, and to that
his Lordship wished to submit himself. As to li-
belling the ships it made no difference whatever in
the case.

Dr. LAWRENCE objdled to a part of the Hon.
and Gjllant Officer (Sir HONiE PotNiAm's) Speech,
as it implied a sort of threat to the House in case
the present proposition was not agreed to. He
wished to know whether the question bf right was
in ;his case given up or not ? With respect to tIV.
case of the vessels taken at the Helder, be was of

opinion, that tlle Captor:it:A .a tier. According
to an old Settlement of these cases in the reign of
Charles the ild. where vessels came over from the
Enemy, the right vested in the Crown, and it was
for the Crown to reward in proportion to the ser-
vice. He wished that some pause should be allow-
ed before they were called upon to agree to this pro-
position ; the Report upon, this subject ought to be
in the .possession of .every one before they were called
upon to vote upon the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
stated, that the papers were laid upon the Table
early in February, and were ordered to be printed
on Friday last, there was therefore no surprize upon
the House.

Dr. LAWRENCE said. he had no opportunity of
looking at the papers till the present moment.
Sir I.OME POPHAM trusted the House would
not impute to him any intention of holding out a
threat upon the subiett, as his words would not bear
any such interpretation.
Mr. W. SMITH wished for further time to con-
sider the subject ; no claim of right being. set up, it
necessarily followed that there were degrees in
which they .were to apportion reward to exertion,
and this requited time for consideration : this ques-
tion, as to the-quantum of remuneration, formed in
his mind, a- weighty consideration for delay. Ther'd*
was also ano:her subjeCt .for consideration, which
was the claim of the Army employed at Toulon
he understood from what was stated by the Hon.
Gentleman (Sir HOME POl'ilAM) that the Army co-'
operated. In that caseovhen they were only called
upon, to grant a remuneration to one service, it cer-
tainly became an objea for their consideration why
their, liberality,ought to be restrained ? It was also
to be remarked, that the papers had not been de.
livered more than one or two days, and therefore.
there had not been sufficient time for consideration.
Admiral BERKELEY said, that the Ships We're
taken before the Army arrived. Two Regiments
were embarked on board the Fleet to let as Marines,'
and were the Troops employed to take Fort
La 1
Malgue ; those he conceived were entitled to
as Marines. The Army did not arrive till lint
after the Ships had been taken possession of.
The CHANCELLOR of she EXCHEQUER said,
if there were,really any doubts as to the share oithe
Army, he would very willingly consent .to doter ibe
consideration of the solojeCI; 'but he unaltotid','
that Ole Soldiers who served on board the net...t.ls
Marines, were entitled to share as such; -
Sir. WM. SCOTT was of opinion that suCh'ii'h'ri
of the Army as served on board the Fleet—as-
Marines,, and aEled as such, were entitled
benefit of the distribution.
Some farther observations were made by Sir WM.
PULTENEY, Mr..KINNAIRD, the CHANCELLOR of
the EXCHF.QUER,M.y.JOHNsTONE, .6itiMir3l.BEßkE.
L Ey, and Sir CHARLES POLE, the result of which
wasraccording to the, statement-of the -Lille-I'o'4M--
the Troops who served on board' the' -Fleet aaed
under the orders of Lord KEITH, and did not con-
sider themselves as any•thing else but Marines.
Mr. WINDHAM said, it was now 'admitted this
wasnot a question of right, but a questimt of Jibe...
rality, and in that Case it required much more. iti),
formation on. the subjea. It was trite that the
Papers had, been laid upon the Table some days ago ;
but there was such a multiplicity of Papers laid upon
the Table of that House, that unless the attention
of Gentlemen was particularly called to them, they
frequently escaped observation.
Mr. KINN4IRV moved that Mr. ALEXANDER
should leave the Chair. Which-Motion 'lvas
diately negatived, and the original Resolution put
and agreed to.
The Report was ordered to be received to-mor:
row.