The Sun.
London, England, 1858-07-10 00:00:00

JULY 10,
THE SUN, - LONDON, §ATU RDAY EvENiNG,

impERIAI, PARLIAMENT,
HOUSE OF LORDS.—(YESTER)AY.)
The LORD CaatioELLon took his seat on the woolsack
at live o'clock.
The Duke of CLEVELAND presented a petition
from Norfolk, in favour of marriage with a deceased
wife's sister.
Lord OVERSTONE presented a number of similar
Tiae
petitions from the city of London end other placess.exi
noble lord stated that in his opinion no groundsted
for the opposition this bill was likely to encounter to
the
ground that the marriaees which it wdaso_so_uthcit.
The
legalized were contrary to the word of
he thought,
numerous petitions he had presented,they all dietinotly
were conclusive on the point,
stated that no scriptural or moraalsobjections to the bill
could be found, and he conjured noble lords not to reject
the bill when it came before them.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA BILL.
This bill was read a first time.
Earl DERBY said he proposed to take the second
reading of this bill on Thursday. He did not wish to
i bill, but e was anxious
hurry discuseion o
that no unnecessarthey delay should take plache with respect
to this measure.
Earl GRANVILLE said as far as he was personally
concerned, Thursday would be perfectly convenient.
The Earl of DERBY—Then the second reading will
be moved on Thursday and the committee on Friday.
THE SLAVE TRADE.
Lord TRURO asked whether it was the intention of
the Government to recal the British squadron from the
Cuban waters in order to increase the force now block-
ading the coast of Africa, and if so, whether the Go-
vernment had made any inquiry to how far it was de-
sirable to continue that blockade.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said her Majesty's
Government had thought it prudent to give orders to
diminish the squadron on the African coast, but there
was no intention of withdrawing it altogether.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Dublin and Meath Railway Bill was read a
second time.
The West End and Crystal Palace Railway, Vale of
Towy Railway, Hove Improvement, and Victoria Sta-
tion and Pimlico Railway Bills were read a third time
and passed.
PARSONAGE ROUSES.
Viscount DUNGANNON called attention to the in.
convenient and frequently harsh and unjust nature of
the present law with regard to the dilapidations on
glebe houses ; and asked whether the Archbishop of
Canterbury contemplated in a future session introducing
any measure calculated to meet the existing evil ?
'The Bishop of LONDON, in the absence of the Arch-
bishop of Canterbury, said a bill with this intention had
been prepared by his predecessor in the see of London,
and was still under the consideration of the episcopal
bench, but the subject was surrounded with great
difficulty. He though some machinery ought to be de-
vised for securing the periodical examination of parson-
age houses.
After a few words from the Bishop of CHESTER,
Viscount DUNGANNON expressed his gratificatiou
that the subject was under consideration.
The subject then dropped.
CHURCH RATES•
Lord ST. LEONARDS, in calling the attention of
their lordships to a petition from Surbiton on the sub-
ject of church rates, complained of the hardship of coin-
polling persons who contributed to the repair of district
churches under the act of the noble duke (Marlborough)
to contribute also to the repair of the mother church.
Redid not know if it was the intention of the noble duke
that this should be so, and far himself the clause in the
act was worded so generally that he should not like to
give an opinion as to the legality of such a proceeding.
The effect, in many instances, was, that there were two
parties in the Established Church without the slightest
neoeesity. He thought that a bill ought to be brought
in for the purpose of making it clear that those who paid
for the repair of their own district church were not to be
compelled to pay church rates.
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH said he should be
glad to see any ambiguity in the law removed, as this
was one of the causes which produced a feeling in the
bosom of the Established Church itself against church
rates.
Lord PORTMAN said there could be no greater in-
justice than to leave the law as it was. Under the act
known as the Marquis of Blandford's act the bishop and
the patron gave the district a power of rating themselves
for church rates, and the consequence was wherever dis-
trict churches were established the mother church was
deprived of the right of rating all the property in the
parish for the repair of the parochial church. Dr. Hook
had stated in a published letter that the " revolution of
the Marquis of Blandford's act was proceeding at such a
rate that it was time to do something." (Hear, and a
laugh.) He hoped the noble earl would attend to this
point in any bill which the Government might introduce.
He hoped himself to be able to lay a bill on this subject
on the table for the consideration of Parliament and the
right rev. bench before the prorogation.
ECCLESIASTICAL CORPORATION LEASINGS
BIL L.
This bill, was read a second time.
CONFIRMATION OF EXECUTORS, &c., BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving te second
reading of this bill, said, the object of it was to simplify
the procuriur of letters of confirmation in Scotland,
which was a proceeding similar to the granting of pro-
bate iu England, to make such letters of confirmation
available in England, and rise versa. As the bill stood
originally an option was given to the executors to peti-
tion either the commissary of the county where the party
died, or the commissary in Edinburgh, but the Lord
Advocate thought it desirable to alter that part of the
bill, and took away the option of petitioning the commis-
sary in Edinburgh. The Writers to the Signet in Edin-
burgh petitioned their lordships to have the bill restored
to its original form. That would be best considered,
however, in the next stage of the bill.
Lord CRANWORTH said that he considered the
alteration was a blot in the bill. The alteration com-
plained of was made, as he understood, after the bill had
passed the committee in the other house, and between
12 and 1 o'clock. Ile thought the interest of the public
was that the representative of the testator should have
the power of-proving the will in the county where he
had been domiciled, or in Edinburgh, as was the case in
England. There were some nine questions arising out
of the use of the word " domiciled," and he would re-
commend his noble and learned friend to consider whe
ther a word less liable to controversy might not be used.
The bill was read a second time.
11JNDED DEBT BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this bill,
Lord ST. LEONARDS moved an amendment on
one of the clauses of the bill to the efeet, as was under-
stood, not of taking away arbitration altogether, but of
leaving the arbitrators at liberty to determine the rate
of interest at which the reversionary rights belonging to
the Church should be disposed of.
The Earl of CHICHESTER opposed the amendment
of the noble lord. Its effect would be, not to take away
the arbitration, but to leave the arbitrators at liberty to
determine the rate of interest at which the reversionary
right of the Church should be discounted.
Lord PORTMAN said that it was important in sell-
ing a reversion to take care to obtain the full value, and
he feared that under the clause proposed, giving the
power to arbitrators, the Church would suffer a loss.
The commissioners themselves ought to be prepared to
put the proper value on their property.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said a few words in explana-
tion. The value would not be determined by a single
arbitrator, but by several. His object was to secure the
futnre benefit both of the lessees and the Church.
The Earl of HARDWICKE opposed the amendment.
There was reason to fear that if the [ratter were left to
arbitration alone, justice would not be done.
The Earl of DERBY hoped the noble and learned
lori would not divide the house. The select committee
watt unanimous in favour of the bill in its present
form. It was clear that if the sum paid for a revereion•
ary interest ought to bring in the full value of that in-
tereet, it could not do so if the reversion was discounted
at G per cent., when the ordinary interest of money was
only half that rate.
Lord St. LEONARDS contented to withdraw his
amendment.
The Earl of HARDWICKE brought up some addi-
tional clauses.
Lord CAMPBELL said he hopel that the Lord Chief
Justice of England would no longer be a member of the
tonsmission ; for, although he had been regularly sum-
moned daring nine years, he had never once been able
to attend.
The Bishop of LONDON was authorised to state
that the Bishop of Oxford would not, at that period of
the session, press any further the suggestion which he
bad made as to the emoluments of chancellors of diocese..
The subject was one which required full consideration.
The Earl of DERBY expressed his satisfaction at the
annonncement.
biter a few words from Lord WYNFORD, the bill
pissed.
JOINT STOCK COMPANIES ACT AMENDMENT
BILL"!
On the report of amendments on this bill,
Lord WENSLEYDALE proposed some further
amendments, which were agreed to.
The report was received, and the third reading was
fixed for Monday.
LEASES AND SALES OF SETTLED ESTATES
ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
JEWS BILL.
On the motion for receiving the report on this bill,
The Duke of BUCCLEUCLI moved an amendment
in the second clause, relating to ministers of the Church
of Scotland, which was agreed to.
The report was received.
CHURCHES, &c. (IRELAND) BILL.
The report on this bill was received.
RAILWAY' ACT (IRELAND) CONTINUANCE
BILL.
This hill was read a third time and passed.
PORTENDIC AND ALBREDA CONVENTION
BILL.
This hill was read a third time and pissed.
NISI PRIUS COURT, &se (IRELAND) BILL.
'ale bill was read a second time.
INCUMBERED ESTATES (WEST
INDIES)
AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
The house adjourned at a quarter after 7 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—OCESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKEE took the chair at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lords' amendments to the following bills were
considered and agreed to :—Elst Kent Railway (Wes-
tern Extension) ; Formartine and Buchan Railway ;

....... .....4w,i-e,......,-...............a.m.
No Ith British Railway (Corsolidation, &c.) ; Shrews-
btu y and Welchpool Railway ; Blackburn Railway ; and
Ea: tt Suffolk, Yarmouth, and Haddiscoe, and Lowestoft
and Becoles Railway Companies Amalgamation.
I !be We stminster Palace Hotel Company (Limited) Bill
was read a third time and passed.
T he Glasgow College Estate Bill was read a second
time ..

SUPPLY.

Om the motion for going into supply,
Log, d ELCHO moved "That an humble address be
pram. ted to her Majesty, praying she will be graciously
pleased to issue a Royal Commission, to inquire and re-
port ho w far it may be desirable and practicable to sub•
stitute a n equitable system of assessment in lieu of the
present node of maintaining the public roads in Scot-
land by' t oils and statute labour."
Mr. WALPOLE said the Lord Advocate was in
favour 4,` the issue of a Royal Commission, and he
asked the noble lord to allow the amendment to be
negatived, that he (Mr. Walpole) might consult the in-
tended Lord Advocate on the subject.
Sir E. .COLEBROOKE was favourable to the main-
tenance of the roads in Scotland by an equitable amuses-
inent instead of by tolls.
Mr. H. atIERBERT said the system of assessment
instead of tolls bad been found to work well in Ireland.
Mr. BLACKBURN said the interests of Scotland
and England were so intimately connected that the
commissioners ought to have powers to examine into
the question of tolls on turnpike roads in England all
well as in Scotland.
After some discussion, in which the toll system gene-
rally was very strongly condemned by hon. members on
both sides of the house,
The motion was withdrawn, it being understood the
Government would issue the commission.
THE HOP DUTY.
Sir J. SHELLEY called the attention of the Chan-
cellor
of the Exchequer "to that portion of the second
report of the commissioners of Inland Revenue relat-
ing to hops in which reference is made to the minutes
of proceedings of the Hop Duty Committee which sat
last year, and a presumption expressed by the said
commissioners as to the opinion which that committee
would ultimately have reported to the house, although
no report was made by the committee." He condemned
the heavy amount of the hop duty, and said that he
was afraid if the hop-growers of inferior sorts were
not blessed with a blight—(laughter)—this year, they
would be obliged to have their hops destroyed from
being unable to pay the duty, owing to the deprecia-
tion in price large crops would produce.
After some remarks from Mr. KNIGHT and Mr. B.
for;
Mr. LOCKE (South wark), as a member of a com-
mittee who eat on this subject, said he believed the
committee, if polled, would have been adverse to the
abolition of the duty. The committee were of opinion
that the sooner the hop growers of Sussex shut up
shop as growers of hops the better. It was impossible
for them to produce the superior qualities of hops,
and in consequence they had been sufferers.
The subject dropped.
THE PURIFICATION OF THE THAMES.
Mr. COI moved the following resolution :—" That
this house is of opinion that the cost of the purification
of the river Thames, in the vicinity of the metropolis,
should be borne by the Consolidated Fund and the
neetropolitan ratepayers in equal proportions." He
said 9d. in the pound of the coal tax, imposed for the
imp, ovement of the metropolis, was appropriated by
the government to purposes of their own, and that
fact alone entitled the metropolitan ratepayers to some
consideration in this matter. He charged the Govern-
ment wi.‘b being the first cause of the nuisance,
from havivg sanctioned the scheme for emptying the
sewage of the metropolis daily into the Thames. He
referred to what had been done by the Metropolitan
Board of Works and the Chief Commissioner of Works
with reference to the drainage and sewage of the metro-
polis, and asked the house to agree to his motion.
General THOMPSON seconded the motion. This
was a case in which the whole community ought to
assist the metropolis.
Mr. BENTINCK opposed the motion. Upon every
ground it was to the interest of the metropolis and the
duty of the inhabitants to carry out their own improve-
ments and sanitary regulations without calling upon the
country to pay for them. If the metropolis was visited
with pestilence the inhabitants would be losers. Every
stranger who visited London paid his fair share of local
taxation during his stay here.
Sir G. C. LEWIS also opposed the motion. The form
of the proposal was contrary to the forms of the house,
and the principle involved in the motion was objection-
able. He asked the house not to discuss the subject
then, but wait till the Government had brought forward
a measure on the subject, as promised. He defended
the course pursued by the late Government with re-
ference to the drainage scheme proposed by the Metro-
politan Board of Works.
Mr. T. BUNCOMBE asked if the hon. mover of the
resolution was wrong in point of form. A portion of the
expense of the metropolitan police force was paid out of
the consolidated fund, and he saw no reason why the
consolidated fond should not contribute towards re•
Leneing e‘eee,- of the metropolis.
The SPEAKER. said there were preeedent3 Li- the
course now pursued. It would, however, lead to no
practical result ; for, if the motion was agreed to, the
question of charge must be commenced de novo, sub-
ject to the forms which the house had directed to be
pursued on money questions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
it would be better to withdraw the motion. It was the
intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce a
bill on an early day next week for the purification of the
Thames. (Hear, hear.) The house would then have a
legitimate opportunity for entering into a discussion of
the subject.
Mr. GLADSTONE concurred in the suggestion of
the Chance'lor of the Excheqxer.
Mr. M'MAHON considered it was desirable the house
should then express an opinion on the subject, because
many hon. members would have to leave London next
week to attend the assizes. If the country at large was
to contribute towards the purification of the Thames,
for the convenience of the legislature, it would be better
for Paliament to assemble in Dublin—(laughter)—where
they would be welt received—(laughter)—or Oxford, or
Edinburgh, or build a new house in Hyde Park.
Mr. BLACKBURN hoped the house would negative
the motion. The metropolis ought to cleanse itself.
Sir J. SHELLEY thought the motion should be
postponed till after the introduction of the proposed Go-
vernment measure.
A discussion ensued, in which Mr. Smith, Mr. Clay,
Lord J. Manners and Mr. Cox took part. The latter
gentleman was prepaared to accede to the suggestion,
but the house would not permit
.the withdrawal of the
motion.
On the motion being put,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS rose to order.
The motion was then put and negatived without a
division.

proceed to the Mauritius; that application bad been made
to the Admiralty for the necessary transport, and that
they would proceed as soon as it was obtained.
THE FRIENDLY SOCIETIES ACT AMEND-
MENT BILL.
Mr. POWELL asked the President of the Poor Law
Board whether it was the intention of Government to
proceed with the Friendly Societies Act Amendment

Bill this session !
Mr. S. ESTCOURT said the meacnre alluded to had
been introduced by him before he had anything to do
with the Government, and therefore Government was
not responsible for it. He had, of course, his share of
those disappointments to which hon. members were
liable, for the bill had been upon the paper night after
night ; it now, however, stood first on the list for Tues-
day next, and he fully intended to proceed with it, for he
did not hear that there was any objection to the measure.
THE POOP, RENIOYA.L BILL,
Mr. BOUVERIE as ked whether it was intended to
proceed with the Poor Removal Bill I
Mr. S. ESTCOURT said it was not his intention to
do so during the present session. He was, however,
anxious, before he withdrew the measure, to make a
short statement as to its object, and he therefore hoped
that he should be permittod to make that statement on

Tne3day next.
DESTRUCTION OF BRITISH PROPERTY AT

ULEA BORG.
Sir J. PAKINGTON wished to make an appeal to
the hon. member for London (Mr. Crawford) as to a
motion of his upon the paper in reference to the destruc•
tion of some timber belonging to British subjects by her
Majesty's forces at Uleaborg, in the Gulf of Bothnia,
during the Russian war, and he trusted that the hon.
member would accede to the request which he had to
make to him He had made inquiries as to the papers re-
ferred to in the hon. gentleman's motion, and he was

bound to admit that those papers alone would not con-
stitute any sufficient ground for asking the hon. gentle-
man to postpone his motion. But he thought that those
papers would only place them in possession of a very
improper ♦iew of the case, and he wished to add other
fryers, including some correspondence with the Admi-
ralty, and a special statement with regard to the nature
of the transaction. He hoped that, the hon. gentleman
would postpone his motion for a few days, and he had
every reason to believe that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would afford him another opportunity of bring-
ing it forward. In the meantime he would take an op-
portunity of consulting the law officers of the Crown.
Mr. CRAWFORD said his only object was to have the
case decided upon its merits, and if the right hon. gen-
tleman told him it was necessary to that end that the
papers to which he had alluded should be placed in the
bands of hon. members, he bad no help for it. But if he
Resoled to the request made to him it must be on the
clear understanding that the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer would grant him an early and a suitable opportu-
nity of addressing the house. After 11 or 12 at night
would not be a suitable opportunity, and a day at the
end of the month would not be an early opportunity.

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.
Mr. H. EWART asked the Chancellor of the Exche
quer whether any measures were in contemplation for
creating a department of justice for the promotion of use-
ful legislation, the supervision of passing bills, and the
simplification and precision of the wording of acts of Par-
liament, and other objects in conformity with a resolu-
tion which had already passed the House of Commons.
THE NORMAN CHAPEL OF THE TOWER OF
LONDON.
Mr. B. HOPE asked the Commissioner of Works
what arrangement he proposed to make for the architec-
tural restoration of the Norman Chapel and the adjacent
chambers in the White Tower of the Tower of London.
The hon. gentleman said that the buildings to which he
referred still maintained the features of the Norman ar-
chitecture, and had been little injured by man or by
time. Inthe reign of Elizabeth the chapel had been made
a depository of records, but within the last few years the
records had been removed to the new Record•office, in
Fetter-lane. The chapel remained in all its architectural
massiveness. On the same floor was the council chamber
of the kings, and there were other apartments which
were in their architectural features essentially what they
were before our sovereigns quitted the Tower as a resi-
dence. At present the council chamber was filled with
military stores, and was therefore inaccessible to the
public. In order to provide for the safe custody of these
stores a doorway which led from thin chamber into the
chapel had been bricked up, whilst an adjacent room,
which probably might have been the bedchamber of our
kings, was similarly built up. No mischief had been done
yet, except the bricking up of the doors, which a few
shillings would set right. That and the clearing away the
military stores, and a little repair of the council chamber
would bring it back to its primitive condition. That a
wooden staircase should be taken away and a better
flooring substituted was all that was required; more
money might be laid out on it, but it would be rather
detrimental than restorative of its primitive character.
Lord J. MANNERS said he proposed to make no
arrangement whatever this year for the restoration of
that portion of the Tower to which his hon. friend had
referred; but he was as fully alive as his hon. friend
could be to the architectural and historical features of
this portion of the Tower, and any improvement he hoped
wool I be of that conservative character to which his hon.
friend referred.
SITTING OF PARLIAMENT DURING THE
SUMMER MONTHS.
Mr. C. FORSTER begged to call the attention of
the house to the inconvenience of protracting the session
during summer months, and to ask the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether the Government was prepared to
make any arrangement with the view of remedying such
inconveniences for the future. (Hear.) The inconve-
niences to which he referred, in a greater or less degree,
had been felt during the mix years that he had bad the
honour of a seat in that house ; but they had been pain-
fully apparent during this session. Re would remind the
house that whatever remedy was adopted for purifying
the Thames a considerable time must elapse before the
evil could be got rid of ; and therefore he could not but
think that it was very inconvenient to continue the see-
sioa so late in the year. (Hear.) Apart from this, how-
ever, he was anxious to argue the question on general
grounds. He could not refrain from asking why, in con-
tradistinction from the practice of every other legislative
assembly, they were chained to those benches at a time
which was least fitted for the performance of their
duties. This practice had grown up only of late
years, for formerly the house met in November, and
separated very much earlier than at present. The
practice now existing was not only prejudicial to the
health and convenience of members, but also to the
conduct of public business. He need, in proof, only
point to the number of useful measures which they
always found at this period of the session scattered dead
around them. (Hear.) And as to those measures for
which a happier fate was reserved, and which passed
into law, could it be wondered at that under the in-
fluence of a July sun those measures often left the house
in a crude and imperfect state, and without having re-
ceived that discussion and attention that under other
circumstances would be given to them ? (Hear.l In
modern times there had been winter sessions, but they
were confined to special objects. In November, 1852,
Parliament met to settle the question of free trade, and
the fate of the Ministry ; in the autumn of 1854 nothing
more was submitted to the consideration of Parliament
but the Foreign Mutiny Act, while in December last
year they were told all they had to do was to pass the
Indemnity Bill. But what he wanted to press upon the
Government was the necessity of meeting in November,
and then commencing the real business of the session,
He saw no reason why the financial year should not be
altered to meet the change. He would also threw out as
a suggestion the expediency of dispensing with the Whit-
suntide recess. His only object in bringing the question
forward was a desire to consult the convenience of mem-
bers, and to promote the business of the house. (Hear.)
Mr. BLACKBURN wished to ask the President of the
Board of Control if any decision had yet been come to
on the subject of granting compensation to indigo
planters and other settlers in India whose property had
been destroyed by the rebels.
Mr. T. SMITH said before the noble lord answered
the question he was anxious to draw his attention to the
discontinuance of the papers relative to the progress of
events in India. During the early part of the mutiny papers
were issued giving a detailed notice of what had passed in
India ; but for the last three months the record had been
discontinued. He thought it wonld be for the public in-
terest that the papers should continue to be published.
Sir J. TRELA.WNY called attention to the existing
position of the Church-rate question. The house, after
repeated discussion extending over a lengthened period,
had sent up a bill to another place for the settlement of
the question, but it was there rejected. The noble lord
at the head of the Government upon the discussion of the
bill in another place, stated that he thought it desirable
that dissenters should be relieved from the payment of
Church-rates, though the manner in which he proposed
that should be done was somewhat ungracious and unge•
nerous. It was not for the interest of the Church that the
question should be thus trifled with, nor was it to the
advantage of the magistracy, who had to administer the
law under great uncertainties, and since there yet re-
mained one or two months of the session—(oh, oh, and
a laugh)—he thought the Government were bound to do
something towards bringing about an immediate settle,
ment of the dispute. (Hear, hear.) He did not think the
of
haveth e sea
n o aor the
heather p
pre
smell of the Thames had so much to do with the anxiety
of nime
Governmentw smellyansetehde therefore
hension on that score ; it ought not to preclude their
e,b andrs to get a
making an attempt at an immediate compromise, which
would not involve a larger sum to the State or the Church
than 75,0001. After the opinions expressed on this sub-
ject by a noble lord in another place, he felt that the Go•
vernment were bound to make some attempt at legisla-
tion ; if they did not, they were not fit for their places,
and ho begged to inquire whether they proposed to fix
a period for the termination of the session without re-
commending Parliament to adopt a measure in which
their views on this question should be embodied. (Hear.)
Viscount MELGUND drew attention to the opera-
tion of the laws regulating the sale and consumption of
spirituous liquors in Scotland. Four years ago a new
law came into force having reference to the sale of
liquors in Scotland, and it was then expected that the
effect of the law would be a considerable diminution of
intemperance ;
had produced evils that were never contemplated before
but so far from that being the case, it
the act passed. It was true the consumption of liquors
had diminished during the last two or three years ; but
that result was attributed not to the operation of the
act, but to the increase in the duty upon Scotch spirits,
which had risen from 3s. Bd. to Be. per gallon. Through-
nut Scotland there had been a considerable reduction in
the number of licensed houses ; but on the other hand,
there had been more than a corresponding increase in
the demoralising traffic of illicit distillation, and that
circumstance had induced him to call attention to the
subject in the hope that something would be done to en-
sure a more efficient working of the act.
Mr. DUNLOP said there was an unanimous feeling
on the part of the magistracy of Scotland to aid in the

well working of the act. Sinnetb e passing of the act
there bad been a great (ItnittatiP a in cases of drunken
ness

THE ARMY IN INDIA.
Lord ELCHO was anxious to put a question to the
Secretary of State for War upon a suf:ject that mate-
rially affected the efficiency of the army in India. His
question referred to the clothing and ammunition of the
army. We bad in India a small body of men who had
to contend against tenfold odds, and in order to enable
them to do so successfully it was essential that their
clothing should be suited to the climate, and their am-
munition of the very best. He was afraid, however
from what had recently appeared in the press, that this
was not exactly the case, as these accounts represented
the troops to be clothed in exactly the same manner as
they would be in this country, minus shoes and stock-
ings. Now, he need not dwell upon the importance of
doing everything in our power to promote the comfort
of our men in India ; we should have to maintain a con-
siderable army in India for some time to come ; but if it
went forth that we were neglectful of these matters, we
should experience great difficulty in raising recruits.
With reference to the question of ammunition, the news-
paper correspondence gave the same wretched account
of that as it did of the clothing. This was a bad return
for the large sums the house had authorised to be spent
upon the manufactory at Woolwich ; but he hoped it
would turn out that both as regarded clothing and am-
munition, this was and exceptional case, susceptible of
a satisfactory explanation.
General PEEL said he had great difficulty in answer-
ing the question, because he had no reports or informa-
tion regarding the troops in India except what came
through the India Board. With regard to the regular
clothing of the troops sent from this country, each man
was in the first year supplied with a tunic, and in the
next with a serge frock, the difference in the price be-
tween the two being paid to the soldier to purchase light
clothing. The light clothing was purchased by the com-
pany, and the War-office had no report of what occurred
after the troops arrived in India. Every regiment that
went out last year was furnished with an ample supply
of clothing ; in addition 50,000 pairs of boots and 7,000
pairs of shoes were sent, cud he could not account for
any regiment being without shoes. With regard to the
ammunition, that was a most serious question, for de-
pend upon it unless the ammunition was as carefully at-
tended to as the rifle, both would become perfectly use-
less ; but he had no opportunity of knowing whether
the ammunition now complained of was sent from
this country, or whether it was made isp in India.
awas u furnishedshe s withd
e6ouop rounds of am-
at Woolwich,
mEanuvdenrihyteiosia,lddthienerot the slightest doubt that it was of the
beet quality, but a great quantity of balls and cartridges
had been sent out to be made up in India, and it was
impossible to say whether the ammunition complained
of might not have formed part of that lot. He was not
n correspondence with the Uotes newspaper, but he had

seen private letters to the General Comini;nding-in-Chic
and other personages, written by Sir Colin Campbell and
several officers serving in India, and there was not the
slightest complaint of this sort in any of them. (Hear,
hear.) Directly, however, that the Government saw
from the Times that there were complaints, they wrote
out to Sir Colin Campbell to send home the fullest in-
formation as to the ammunition and clothing. As yet
they had received no official information on the subject,
and therefore they could only speak and act on the same
grounds that had been open to the noble lord. (Hear.)
Lord STANLEY said, in reply to the question of the
right hon. member for Northampton (Mr. Y. Smith), ha
had to state that directions bad been given to renew the
publication of the papers referred to. With regard to
the question of the hon. member for Stirlingshire (Hr.
Blackburn), he found that as early as December last
instructions were sent out to the Governor-General to
procure evidence and information upon claims arising
out of the mutiny, and as soon as the state of the couatry
would allow, to appoint a commission to investigate
such claims. (Hear, hear) He believed that com-
mission had been appointed, but no report had been
received from it. With regard to the question raised
by his noble friend (Lord Eicho) as to the clothing and
ammunition of the troops, he could confirm what his
right hon. friend stated, that all the necessary clothing
was supplied by the Indian Government to every regi •
ment than arrived in India. What became of that
clothing afterwards they had no means of knowing ;
but if the clothes when supplied to the regimentt were
not used, it was the commanders of those regiments who
were responsible. With regard to the ammunition
there was no doubt that some portion of was !found
very defective, and upon the Bth of last month instruc-
tions were sent out to inquire into the matter, and he
had no doubt that a strict investigation would be
instituted. In the meanwhile a quantity of ma-
terial had been sent out, together with machinery for
making the rile bullets of the proper gauge, and they
might rest assured that every means would be adopted to
remedy the serious evil that existed. (Hear, hear.)
The O'DONOGHOE called attention to the statement
of the man Burke, upon whose evidence, in conjunction
with other testimony, the Cormacks were found guilty
and executed for murder in Ireland.
.He asked the At-
torney. General for Ireland whether, as the statement of
the car-driver that Burke admitted to him (the car-
driver) the false character of his (Burke's) evidence
-,Rsin.t the Corenneks on the trial, had been confirmed
take steps for the apprehension of Burke I
fboyr Blruerlkaendo,ni"ti3eals‘t"intieun'tLiOnturoeititi eheS
Government to
Mr. WHITESIDE was sorry that his previous an-
swer to the hon. gentleman was not deemed satisfactory.
The report he had received from his hon. friend the Soli-
citor-General, as to the result of the examination which
had taken place, stated that there was no revon for de-
taining Burke one hour. The fact that a man had stated
a fahebood did not justify his arrest—if it did, all the
gaols in the kingdom would he insufficient to hold that
class of offenders. (Hear, hoar, and a laugh.)
Mr. M`HAHON appealed to the right hon. and
learned gentleman to say yes or no, whether Burke con•
firmed in his examination at the Castle the statement he
made to the car-driver !
Mr. WHITESIDE remarked that it would be a strange
system of administering justice, if, after a trial of two
days' duration, the sifting of evidence by counsel, the
judge, and the jury, the decision to which the jury came
upon such evidence was to be impugned and set aside
upon the simple uncorroborated statement of one of the
witnesses, The right hon. and learned geatleman then
read the Solicitor-General for Ireland's report, that
there was no legal ground for detaining Burke.
Mr. M A.GUI RE repeated Mr. M‘Mahon's question.
Mr. WHITESIDE—As to what the man Barka said
exactly iu his examination at the Castle he could not
answer. There were no depositions as they were tech•
nically called, and there could be none, for properly
speaking there was no trial or legal proceedings.
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, CHURCH
PATES, &c.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
creating
should now proceed, with the permission of the house,
to answer the several questions which had been put to
him in the course of the evening. The first to which he
should
easor
o i replyo
contemplationw thatas
forhen.the purposeem
ber
o forf
m
who desired to know whether the Government had any
m
department of justise is conformity with the resolution
which had been passed by the House of Commons. Now,
any productive
respect
for o f
the
result
with regard to that, as with regard to another resolu-
tion to which the sanction of that house had been given,
wouldhe
itwoans notsaylyowing
t at if i t had been
to want
house upon the part of her Majesty's Ministers. He could
not, of course, state the reasons which might have induced
the predecessors in office of the present advisers of the
Crowa not to act upon the resolution in question, but se
far as he himself was concerned, he was perfectly ready
to admit that he would have been quite prepared to pro-
pose a vote to the house with the view of establishing a
department of justice, provided he had been furnished
with any satisfactory definition as to the duties which
such a department when constituted would be called
upon to discharge. Hitherto he had not been furnished
with any satisfactory definition upon that point, and he
had not deemed himself, therefore, to be in a position to
ask the House of Commons to incur the expense which
the scheme would involve ; but when the necessary in-
formation upon the subject was supplied he would be
found prepared to act in accordance with the resolution
at which the house had arrived. (Hear.) Re should
next advert to the question of the hon. baronet opposite
(Sir J. Trelawny), who wished to ascertain what the
intentions of the Government were in reference to the
long-vexed subject of church rates. The hon. baronet
seemed to be of opinion that, in consequence of the views
with regard to it to which expression had been given
by members of the Government in the other House of
Parliament, it was the duty of her Majesty's Ministers
immediately to introduce a measure to carry those views
into effect. Now, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
was not prepared to say upon the part of the Govern-
ment that it was their intention to introduce in the course
of the present session any measure with that object ; bat
he must at the same time be permitted to state, notwith-
standing certain observations which had fallen from the
hon. baronet, that her Majesty'e Ministers did not re-
linquish the hope of settling the question of church-rates,
and that they would take the earliest opportunity after
the reassembling of Parliament to ask the opinion of the
Legislature upon a bill which they would introduce, in
the hope that it would be accepted as ae satisfactory so-
lution of a long controverted subject. (Hear.) In deal-
ing with either of the important matters to which he had
adverted, however, some regard must be had to the time
at which Parliament should resume its sittings—a ques-
tion which Lad been brought under the notice of the
house last evenino. by an hon. member below the gang•
way (Mr. C. Forster). Now, he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) was bound to admit that the arguments
which were urged in favour of the assembling of Parlia-
ment in the autu inn were not merely plausible, but that
they were, ito some minds, convincing. He believed
that the origin of the meeting of Parliament at that
period of the year at which now it was accustomed to
assemble was not at all to be attributed to the popular
cause which was usually a.lleged—namely, the passion
by which the people of this country as well as the Legis-
lature were animated for the sports of the field. (Hear,
and a laugh.) Our predecessors were as much attached
as we could be to those sports, and yet Parliatuent in
olden days was wont to assemble in the autumn, and to

bring its labours to a conclusion at the commencement

of June. (Hear.) The custom in accordance with which
the Legislature met early in the year, instead of to-

wards its decline, had its origin, he believed, in the
union with Ireland, and the necessity which had thence
arisen for making a complete change in the system
which previously prevailed, in order to promote the

convenience of those brother members who were oblized
to repair from what was then considered a Brest distance

;o this country for the discharge of their legislative func-
;ions. That being so, he had simply to state, in reply to

;ha lion: fmeraber who had called his a►tention to the

subject, that whenever it was brought fully under the
consideration of her Majosty's Ministsrs they would be
prepared impartially and temperately to discuss it.
(Hear.) He must, however, remind the house that it

was hardly fair to recommend that such a change as the

hon. member proposed should at onca be carried into

effect. (Hear.) It must be borne in mind that there

had been an autnranal session in the present Parlia-
mentary year ; htat, althonla that sitting had not been

of a protracted character, it had entailed all the incon-
♦eniences of disturbing the plans and habits of hon.

members, and that some time had been wasted upon a
very important discussion. (A. laugh.) But although
the autumnal session had not been very long, he was, he
thought, entitled to call the attention of the house to
the fact that, owing to those changes which from time
to time took place ender a constitutional form of Go-
vernment, her Majesty's present advisers were called
upon to conduct the affairs of the country not till some
after Parliament had met subsequent to the Christmas
recess, he himself not having taken his seat upon re-elec-
tion until the 12th of March, and that during the period
which had since elapsed they had found it to be their
duty to deal with subjects of a most important and diffi-
cult nature. (Hear.) He might add that the time of the
Government had in consequence been completely occu-
pied ; that they had as yet by no means conch' led the
business of the session, and he, therefore, thought it
would be unfair to ask them to meet Parliament again
so early as the month of November or December next•
(Hear.) They had not had the advantage of any
preparation for the policy which they bad pursued
during the last few months, and under those circum-
stances he could not help thinking that they were
entitled to ask the house not to adopt the great change
which was proposed until Parliament assembled again
at the beginning of next year, which would probably
be the case. (Hear, and a laugh.) In making those
observations he must not be understood as being at all
opposed in theory to the scheme of the hon. gentleman
who had put the question. There were, however, in his
opinion, valid arguments against any immediate altera-
tion of the present system. Flaying answered the
various questions which had been put to him he trusted
the house would be prepared to go at once into Com-
mittee of Supply. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL was inclined to think as a general
custom it would be an improvement if they were to re-
assemble in autumn instead of at the commeccement of
the year—(cheers, and No, no)—but combined with the
earlier meeting of Parliament there should be other ar-
rangements in regard to the progress of public business.
He remembered that at one time Lord Derby proposed
that bills which had proceeded to a last stage in one
session should be taken up at that stage in the next. He
(Lord J. Russell) was in favour of that, plan, but most
of the leading members objeoted to it when it was sug-
gested on grounds that he did not think very conclusive.
Mr. S. WORTLEY inquired when would be the next
supply night, as he had a motion on the paper which he
would then bring forward.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—On
Monday morning. (Hear, and laughter.)
TRADE MARKS.

Mr. ROEBUCK called attention to a practice that
prevailed extensively of imitating, by foreign makers,
the trade marks of British cutlers and other manufac.
turers, in order to foist off inferior goods in the foreign
market, to the great injury of the manufacturers whose
marks were thus forged. Many foreign nations had
agreed reciprocally to protect their manufacturers from
this system of fraud, and France had passed a law under
which, if a reciprocal treaty were entered into, they would
afford the necessary protection in their lawcourts to our
manufacturers. He wished to know it the attention of
the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs had been called
to the subject, and if so, whether any steps had been
taken to provide a remedy to this evil, and whether the
Government saw any difficulty in entering into a treaty
with France for the reciprocal protection of the manu-
facturers of both countries I
Mr. S. FITZGERALD replied that the attention of
the Government had been called to the question, and he
could assure the hon. and learned gentleman that they
were most anxious to take steps as early as pos-
sible to remedy the inconvenience of which the Eng-
lish manufacturer complained. (Hear, hear.) The ques-
tiJu r nr-d.,-Ition A tturopy-
General, and they (the Government) nupeuni tno
of the present session of Parliament to introduce a bill
which should enable thorn, lay conventions with foreign
countries, to carry out the object the hon. and learned
gentleman desired. (Hear, hear.)
The motion that the house at its rising do adjourn to
Monday was then put and agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. Pam an address was agreed to
for a return of the amount of fees and other emoluments
received by each superintendent registrar in respect of
registration of births, deaths, and marriages registered
in England and Wales during the year ending the 31st
day of March, HA showing separately the amount re-
ceived by each for the registration of marriages.
SUPPLY.

The house then went into committee of supply, and re-
sumed the discussion on the vote proposed at the morn-
ing sitting of 73,730/. for science and art.
Mr. DILLWYN objected to the increase which the
vote this year presented over that of last, and com-
plained that they had no sufficient guarantee thate ath
de
money ;was beneficially laid out, or that sciencee
sun
art were properly taught by the departmen
gested that the expenditure of the money shouldH
t.
be gen-
trusted to the Trustees of the British Museum, or some
other body, who, like them, would be responsible to
Parliament, and in whom the country would have confi-
dence. He moved to reduce the vote by the sum of
9,945/. Se. and Mr. Pease. spoke in
Mr. lilack, Mr. Coningham,
favour of the vote ; and Mr. lwyn, finding the feeling
of the house against him, withl)dciarie the amendment.
hopew that the sum now
Mr. WILLIAMS express.
asked for would be the maximum of the vote.
Mr, ADDERL E
future
hoped that the present amount
in ure years, but declined, on
would not be exceeded
sub pct. of the Government, to give any pledge on the
subject. It was perfectly legitimate for the state to
stimulate art, and endeavour to raise its standard, and
he thought the state might permanently retain its posi-
tion as the patron of art among the middle classes. But
clear that as the stimulus afforded by the state
took
it asweffect, the system would become more and more
self-supporting. Already they were enabled in many
cages
mopeorriate the grants of public money to results
in to
the way of prizes and certificates instead of to sub-
sidies, e and as this went on the local resources became
more andle more developed, the schools became more
efficient and more self-supporting, and as the proportion
of the Parliamentary grants were reduced, the burden
upon the locality in the way of subscriptions became lass.
- Mr. W. EWART was glad to hear the statement of
the right hon. gentleman, as it proved that the system
had come very near to the object which the committee
which sat to consider this subject had iu view, namely,
that schools of design should be rendered self-support-
ing. Ile believed that as these schools extended them-
selves they would become more popular institutions.
Mr. MACARTHY pointed out the inequality with
which the vote was dealt out to Ireland as compared
with England and Scotland. He did not see why a city
like Cork should be excluded from the benefits of a
school of design.
Mr. WILSON urged that it should not be taken for
granted that this vote had now reached its maximum.
Nothing had done more towards the affording know-
ledge and practical education to those who earned their
bread by their labour, while the results in other respects
had been advantageous. Looking at our exports to
France, and especially in objects of taste, such as porce-
lain and others, which were peculiarly Frenob, it would
be found that they had increased in 12 years from
400,0001. to 2,000,0001. In the article of silk, until with-
in the last few years, our exports were not so large with
the whole world as they now were with France alone.
This was a proof of the immense advantage which
these schools of design had afforded to our manufactures.
The house should not do anything to preclude itself
from increasing these votes if they continued to produce
such profitable results.
Mr. P. O'BRIEN urged the propriety of extending
the advantages of this vote more generally to Ireland.
He thought such cities as Cork, Cashel, and Galway,
were as much entitled to participate in it as Newcastle-
upon-Tyne, and other minor towns in England.
Mr. ADDERLEY said that if Ireland had not received
as due a share of the vote as England or Scotland it was
her own fault. This was not an eleemosynary grant, but
one which was given on certain conditions, and if these
conditions were complied with, and application made
from any place in Ireland, it would be granted.
After a few words from Mr. HASSARD and Mr. GROGAN,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that the number of towns
in England which possessed these schools of design were
no less than sixty. These schools had conferred immense
benefit on trade ; and many manufacturing places which
used to obtain their designs from France now entered
into competition with that country.
The vote was then agreed to.
EDUCATION (IRELAND).
On the next vote, 223,000/. for public education in Ire
land,
Mr. BUXTON rose to call the attention of the house
to the expediency of making such modifications in the
conditions under which public money is granted to non-
vested schools, as may extend the benefits of the national
system of education to a larger portion of her Majesty s
subjects in Ireland. The hon. member proceeded to say
that he was not unmindful of the immense advantages
that proceeded from the national system of education in
Ireland ; but the object of his motion was to induce the
Loose to defer to the just scruples of the Protestant clergy
of the country, who could not in any way connect them-
selves with the board as long as the use of the Bible was
excluded from the schools. The national schools at
present enjoyed the entire monopoly of the Govern-
' ment aid ; but he believed if the schools of the
Church Education Society were permitted to share in