The Sun.
London, England, 1867-11-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LOND,iN WEDNESDAY EVENING, NOVEMBER 20, 1867

part of the country detailing the indignities officers
in her Majesty's service :had been subjected: to, such as
never had before been endured, and the Government had
done well in confiding the command of the expe-
dition to so brave a soldier as Sir Robert Napier,
who bad shown his bravery in man^ parts
of her Majesty's dominions. It was satisfactory that the
utmost care had been taken in forwarding the necessary
requirements for the successful support of the expedition,
and although some might say the preparations were
too extensive, yet he thought the shortest
way to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion
was to carry ou the expedition in a most perfect manner.
He for one most ardently desired that IJer Majesty's views
on the subject of Italy might bo carried out, and
that that quiet which was so desirable would
follow the quelling of the invasion, and that
ultimately peace and prosperity would prevail throughout
the whole of Italy. The outrages that hal been committed
in some parts of England were much to be deplored, and
he felt that when the majesty of the law was vindi-
cated peace would follow, and that the misgoverned
persons who had taken part in them would see the folly

of pursuing such a mad career. The efforts to cheapen
the provisions of the great bulk of her Majesty's subjects
was under the consideration of Parliament, and in the hope
that the best results would follow their deliberations he
begged to second the address.
The SPEAKER having read the Address,
Mr. GLADSTONE said there was nothing in either of
the addresses of the two hon. gentlemen, or the Address
itself, which would call upon him to depart from the
usual course of voting it without amendment.
He had, however, intended to have asked the right
honourable gentleman some questions on the policy
of the Government, but there were matters of a domestic
nature, which would at this moment prevent him doing so,
and he would take that opportunity of stating that the
right hon. gentleman had the sympathy of the whole
house. (Hear, hear.) He could not at that
moment but express his mast ardent wish that
the Abyssinian expedition might not extend itself into a
war—(hear, hear)—and although nothing could be done
at that moment, yet he only felt it right to say that
the house would expect to have the most frank
explanations on the subject of Abyssinia. (Hear, hear.)
The question was a most difficult one, and although he
did not moan to imply any want of confilence in the
steps which the Government had taken, yet the
country would expect that some explanations would
be required as to how it was proposed to
carry on the war, and what was the hope of success
against a person who it was supposed would not fight
but run. (Hear, hear.) He felt that explanation
would also be required as to the employment
of Indian troops in the expedition without the consent of
Parliament. We were now going into Abyssinia, and the
next idea that arose in the mindsof many would be, when
shall we come out of Abyssinia?"—and ho could not
imagine there was any intention in the present expedition
of territorial aggrandisement, because there was quite as
much anxiety with respect to territorial government. The
next matter that would be looked forward to
with the greatest interest was the charge to be
made for the expedition. Rumour said a largo sum was to
be asked for, and that a portion of that was to bo borne of
the revenues of India, but he hoped the other part
would not be saddled on this country by
way of additional debt. If the Government pro-
posed to meet the expenses of the day out of the
revenue, Parliament would give her Majesty's Govern-
ment their best help and assistance ; therefore he hoped
the fears that were expressed in some quarters would not
be realized. With respect to Italy, he could not see how
it would have been possible for her Majesty's advisers
not to have taken some notice of the painful proceedings
that had taken place in that country—(hear)—and with
respect to Fenianism, he could only say that he felt the
law would be found fully equal to the occasion, and that
her Majesty's peaceable subjects should not be overridden
by lawless and ill-disposed men with impunity. (Hoar.)
There were rumours with respect to the commission ou
the Irish Church, but ho hoped many that he had heard
were untrue, but the object of the commission was clearly
to elicit and bring before Parliament more clearly than
was at present known certain facts, leaving Parliament
to deal with them as it seems best. He hoped that
unanimity would not be disturbed, and that with that view
he supported the address that had just been read.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who was
loudly cheered on rising to reply, showed strong emotion,
and had evidently great difficulty in speaking. His dis-

tress called forth. sympathising cheers from all parts of

the house, and when these had subsided the right hon.
gentleman, who was almost inaudible, was understood to
say that he was much touched by the manner in which
the right hon. gentleman opposite had referred to a pain-
ful subject, and by the kindness of the house. (Renewed
cheering.) Tho Chancellor of the Exchequer proceeded—
The right hon. gentleman has made a speech which, I
think, every one must acknowledge has been most fair. I
agree with him that the Address was moved by my hon.
friend in a manner which engaged the attention and
interest of the house, and seconded by my noble and gal-
lant friend in an able speech. The right hon. gentleman is
perfectly correct in his assumption that en the part of the
Government it is not for a moment to be supposed that this
house is at all pledged with respect to the Abyssinian policy
until it has considered the whole subject when it is for-
mally brought before it. Then it will be treated as if it
wore a matter introduced to the notice of the house for

the first time, although it may have previously been re-
ferred to in this or the other House of Parliament as a sub-
ject upon which the house must decide after candid and
full discussion. (Hear, hear.) The Government then will
Pbearplriaempaern:tdttoo adopt. They policy which they recommend
court the utmost inquiry. In-
deed, it is most expedient upon all questions of this impor-
tance, and especially when connected with a remote coun-
try, and where all the calculations must be formed upon a
variety of complicated circumstances, that the discussion in
withstlLence to obtaining the without presumption,
Parliament should be full. We are prepared to meet that
thatdiscussion,
w o
look
akn d
forwardl h o p
may
co say,
sanction of the house to the expedition. The right hon.
gentleman has treated the question so fairly, that, from the
manner in which he has commented on it, we may enter
upon the discussion without feeling that it is a party ques-
tion. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the recommendations
which the right hon. gentleman has made as to the mode
in which we should be prepared to recommend to Parlia-
ment to carry on the war —if war becomes inevitable -I
think it would not be convenient at present to enter into
those details. (Hear, hear.) The time is very near when
it will be my duty, or the duty of some other minister, to
place the whole matter before the house ; and considering
that the papers relating to the question have only been
laid on the table to-day, it would be premature to enter
into details new. I assume that gentlemen on both
sides of the house will be anxious to make themselves
masters of the information contained in the papers,
which have been prepared with as little reserve as
probably ever occurred in public documents, before they
(Hear, hear.) I will only
connected with our foreign
te
()nut eolh•
uponu p o n
oa
tnhyo r dqi suc
questions
ui ouns.
affairs and other points to which the right hon. gentle-
man has adverted. It must he satisfactory to the house,
lam sure, to hear from the Throne an assurance of the
friendly relations between her Majesty and her allies and
the powers of Europe. All must deplore the disturbances
which have occurred in Italy. This is not a fitting occa-
sion on which to enter into the causes of those unhappy
disturbances ; but I think that the spirit in whichher Ma-
jesty has addressed us on that subject will be approved of
and re-echoed by the house. The house will, I hope, in
its answer to the Address, convey to the Throne its con-
currence in the hope that the presence of foreign troops in
Italy may cease. (Cheers.) With respect to questions con-
nected with Ireland to which the right hon. gentleman has
particularly adverted, it must not be assumed that when
Parliament meets in November that it is not the intention
or hope of the Government to deal with many topics that
are not particularly referred to in the Speech from the
Throne. The land question is not a question which any
Government that I have been connected with can be ac -
cused of having passed over. Our efforts to bring it to a
fair solution may not have been fortunate, but great pains
have been taken and great sincerity has been shown to
effect that object. The right hon. gentleman has been just
in remembering that last year, even although the time of
the Government and the house was greatly occupied, there
was no contemptible effort made on our part with that
view. The house must not infer because the subject is not
introduced in the Speech that the Government has given
up the solution of the difficulty in despair. On the con-
trary, I think I may venture to say that a bill will be again
presented to Parliament with respect to the Irish Church
and the purpose of the commission which has been re-
cently issued. I think the right hon. gentleman has placed
too largo an interpretation upon some expressions which
may have been used. But I believe that to-morrow a copy
of the commission will be placed upon the table, and,
therefore, it will not be necessary for me to enter further
into the subject. The right hon. gentleman has, I think,
given very prudent counsel to the Ministry, and also to
members of this house, as to the vague terms which it is,
on the whole, expedient to admit into Speeches from the
Throne on very important topics. I can only say, with
respect to the paragraph with reference to education, it
has not ben inserted in the Speech as a mere rheto-
rical flourish. The Government is giving serious atten-
tion to the subject, but of course when Parliament meets
in November we aro not justified in specially referring
to the results of their inquiries. I thank the house again
for its great kindness. (Cheers.)
Mr. HORSMAN asked Lord Stanley to state the charac-
ter of the invitations sent out by France for a Congress
on the affairs of Italy, and what answer we had given to
it. Denying altogether that it was a matter to be settled
between France and Italy—for the Emperor himself, in his
speech to the' Chambers, declared it to be a matter of Euro-
pean interest, and that it was necessary to settle a compre-
hensive basis for negotiations before the Congress met—
he entered into an elaborate review of the " situation" in
Italy, and urged Lord Stanley to accept the invitation on
conditions which he specified, and which, he maintained,
would lead to a satisfactory settlement.
Lord STANLEY, while declining to enter into a gene-
ral discussion of the Italian question at this moment, pro.