The Sun.
London, England, 1858-01-28 00:00:00

:CH RATES,

questions, not to be aware that, although they may be
unanimous in opinion, there are, on the other hand,
large bodies who may entertain different opinions ; and
that with regard to measures affecting the entire of the
Ut ited Kingdom, or at least England, it is impossible
to suppose that one party can carry fully and entirely
into effect all the wishes they may entertain. (Hear.)
Therefore, without at all entering into the view which
the Government may take, I would only wish to remind
gentlemen that there are many difficulties in the way,
and that it is not altogether quite so easy an arrange-
ment as some eager persons may suppose. I can only
therefore thank you for cooling here. (N laugh.) The
Government will feel it their duty to attend to the state-
ments which have been laid before me, and which I will

also submit to my colleagues, aid I am not without
hope that the question slay at length be settled in a
manner satisfactory to all parties.
Mr. A. PELLATT-Will your lordship have any °Neu-

tiou to state whether you -nave prepared any measure,
and whether you think you can bring it forward in the
present session ?
Lord PALIIERSTON—Some time last year we gave our
best attention to the matter, and we haa a bill nearly

ready. What may be the time, consistently with other
matters, to propose it, I cannot take on myself to say ;
but I assure you we feel the importance of the subject,
and are anxious to propose to Parliament something
which we may consider entitled to due consideration, if
not to the acceptation of all parties.
Mr. T. BUNCOMBE, M.P.—The reply which your lord-
ship has given is quite consistent with that which you
gave me last session. We now understand that your
lordship will not enter into any positive agreement, and
' therefore we cannot consider the Government bound to
introduce any bill during the present session.
Lord PALMERSTON—But we wish to bring it in.
Mr. DUNCOMBE—We have been limited to wishing for
a long time. (Laughter.) I will ❑ow, however, ask
this question—Whether, if an independent member
should bring in a bill for the total abolition of church
rates within a limited period—not to-morrow, but two
or three years hence—will your lordship give that inde-
pendent member's biil the support of the Government
(Hear, hear.) The Government gave to Sir William
Ciay's bill its support on the second reading, leaving it
open to them to introduce such amendments as they
might think proper i❑ committee. Now, I ask, sop•
posing a similar bill be introduced, will the Government
give it their support on the second reading, reserving to
themselves the right to propose amendments, and allow'
tsiuAile!lc fr.:od.m to deal with such amendmento!

(Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—My answer is that Government
have under their consideration a plan. You then ask
me whether, supposing a private member were to intro-
duce a bill founded on a different plan, we would agree
to the second reading, with the object of converting the
bill in committee into our own bill, That is not, in n3l
mind, a very convenient mode of legislation, for it l°
easier to make 10 new bills than to amend one--
(laughter)—l mean it is easier to bring in one's own bill
than to convert another person's bill ; and, in al
opinion, if we bad a fair prospect in the course of the
session of introducing our own bill, that would be
much better arrangement than to carry out my hon.
friend's proposition.
Mr. DUNCOMRE—Then, on those grounds, you would
oppose the second reading of the bill !
Lord PALMERSTON —I don't know that. (A laugh.)
Mr. DIINCOMBE—Then, if we wait for you' and yet
wait for us we will never get on. (Great laughter.) Vire
will, in fact, be is the same position as we were in whir'
S;r W. Clay's bill was before the house—that is—re
will leave the question just as you found it. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—That shows that the course Ycti
propose tO adopt is not calculated to advance the
question—l mean that one person bringing in a bill and
another person taking it up is not the way to advance
legislation.
Sir W. CLAY—You are quite right in supposing theA
two things put together do not make a third. (Laughter.)
Although my bill was read a second time, it so happened
that in point of fact we never had an opportunity 0'
trying what might have been done with it, as it never
reached the committee.
Lord PALMERSTON—GentIemen know very well tbot
when a private member brings in a bill on a great rabliC
matter with regard to which there is a very etrong_
difference of opinion, he is not so likely to get a day 01,
'ts consideration as the Government might. (Laughter'i

A. MEMBER of the Deputation—Those are the u-
tactic., my lord. (Laughter.)
Lord PALMERSTON—Those who are against a measn,re
generally avail themselves of what they believe to be tu°
best means of defeating it.
Mr. J. LOCKE, M.P.—We understand your lordsh%
to say that if a private member were to bring in
you would not object ; but that there might not be
day on which it could be discussed. If the Governrst
would not oppose such a bill, but would allow it to • u"
read a second time, it is possible that a day might be
spared for discussing it in committee.
Mr. DUNCOMBE—What we wish to establish is).the
principle of the total abolition of church rates with'° ,
certain time, and without any compromise.
Mr. AYRTON, M.P., said it would not be difficult
find a day for the introduction of a bill, although it
might be difficult to find days in which to pass it threo4o
the successive stages. He begged to submit to the OP
a the
lord that it would be satisfactory to the country 1.0.
Government were to lay their bill at once before Pat,
be
ment, so that their views on the subject might
ascertained. (Hear, hear.) isla
Lord PALMERSTON--I think, upon general prineiPo
it is not advisable for the Government to bring 41 i:jo
in one session with the clear prospect of not being ik„-a.
to pass it in that session, for, should they not be e'er
oessful, they would allow the measure to stand 014
until next session to be shot at by all parties. I thilba
as a general principle, the Government does betterlo?
bringing before Parliament such measures only as b,,at
have a fair prospect of passing ; therefore, I must
be understood to make an engagement to bring in it '1
without a fair prospect of passing it.
The deputation then retired, and a meeting St,
subsequently held at the Thatched House Tavern, ,o 0
James's-street, to consider what steps should be ts"
to give effect to the wishes of the deputation.
Sir W. Clay having been called to the chair, .400
Mr. Msa.u.said he thought there was but one opl'top,
as to the result of the interview with Lord Pahnere,ol
and that was that they must not look to the prepare
Administration Administration to assist them in carrying a 00%4
for the abolition of church rates. A. bill had gblre
n-ow
been introduced, the principle of which bad been 'ad
firmed by a considerable majority, and he presn"-sit
the best course to adopt would be to reintroduce if
W. Clay's bill as early as possible, and Wing
influence to hear to make it the law of the land. (n'''-ty
hear.) He concluded by moving the following air'
,olution—" That the deputation, having heard the ots
satisfactory reply of Lord Palmerston to the stated 0d
this day placed before him cannot return to their re:air
tive homes in the provinces without declaring dose
determination
to press forward without delay, °ans'
their own responsibility, a bill for the total and uo°
pensated abolition of church rates."
.0, 034
The resolution having been seconded, was --efasse
unaniteousty ; and, on the motion of Dr. FosTEBt "oof
also resolved--" That the deputation especially ret tbo
mend the friends of religious liberty throngh°lll all
United Kingdom to contest the making of rate.
hi 0 of
parishes, even where they may be in a minority, 4 witioo
a matter of common experience that even the onP°9 of S
of a minority may practically prevent the levying
rate."
Old
A vote of thanks was then accorded to Sir I' •
for presiding, and the meeting sarated,
A soiree of the Society for theep -es Liberation of —6IIIA-
from State Patronage and Control was atterwardol .00
at the Milton Club, Ludgate-hill, when several arill•Lpie
on the subject of church rates formed the principal—
of discussion.