The Sun.
London, England, 1858-05-15 00:00:00

Just let us see what is the course taken by the right hon. j
gentleman. He had a letter which contained these 1
words :—"I intend to issue a proclamation to the
talookdars and landowners of Onde, which will reach
you by the mad. I did hope to have accompanied it with
a full explanatory despatch, but more urgent business
has prevented my doing se from hour to hour." And
then, it appears, he consulted Lord Palmerston, or
"something of the kind," as to the propriety of com-
municating this passage to my noble friend. See, then, 1
the situation in which ho places himself. It was not
through forgetfulness or inadvertence that he failed to
communicate it, but through deliberate purpose and in-
tention. He took counsel on the subject— [Earl
GRaNviLLE : "No, no !"] At any rate the right hoe.
gentleman took his own counsel (laughter) ; and he con-
sidered
it not at all necessary to communicate this
passage to his successor in office. Now, I cannot help
thinking even the noble lords near me must think that
in neglecting this the right hon. gentleman failed in hie
duty. (Hear, hear.) What, then, was the situation in
which my noble friend was placed 1 That despatch was
not sent to Lord Canning until the 26th of April. The
right hen. gentleman (Mr. V. Smith) bad received the
letter eight days before ~ he had therefore ample time
for bringing it under the notice of my noble friend ;
and, no doubt, had my noble friend heard that any ex-
planation was expected from Lord Canning, he would
have withheld his despatch. Who, then, is answerable
for the sending out of that despatch! My noble
friend, who objected to the proclamation, who
thought it was dangerous who had no idea
that any explanation • of it was to be given,
and who therefore sent out his despatch to arrest the
progress of the mischief which he anticipated ; or the
right hon. gentleman (Mr. V. Smith), who might have
prevented all the difficulty which has ensued by a timely
communication of the important fact that an explana
tion would be furnished, for such a statement would un-
doubtedly have prevented the despatch being sent out I
(Cheers.) What, then, is the situation of your lord-
ships under these circumstances, when you are called
upon to decide, not whether the publication of the de-
spatch is to be disapproved, but whether its premature
publication by her Majesty's Ministers is a matter which
you ought to reprobate ? Your lordships have it before
you distinctly that her Majesty's Government were not
as a body responsible for such publication. Is it not,
then, a most surpising thing that this distinguished
assembly should be debating during a whole night a
matter which has been conceded by the regret expressed
by my noble friend (Lord Eilenborougb) that the despatch
has been published ? Are we not placed in a most extra-
ordinary position by the resolutions of my noble friend,
which call upon your lordships to consider whether you
will condemn a supposed act of her Majesty's Govern-
ment which is now admitted on all hands to have been
an act of that Government ! I feel, my lords, that a most
unfortunate course has been adopted in this instance. I
had hoped, as I have already said, that after the manly
declaration of my noble friend the bite President of the
Board of Control, the noble earl (Shaftesbury) would
have felt it his duty, not merely to himself but your
lordships, to abstain from pressing his resolutions. I
believe this discussion is wholly unnecessary, and I
think the best mode of meeting the resolutions is by
moving the previous question. (Cheers.)
Lord CRA.NWORTH contended that the greater
portion of the speech of the Lord Chancellor was a
covert defence of a great portion of the army of Oude,
which came with a peculiar bad grace from any genve•
man who occupied the woolsack. He thought it was '
clearly demonstrated that the publication of the de
epatch was the act not of the noble earl (Ellenborough)
alone, but that of the united Government, and he would
prove it from the statements made in the other house.
(Cheers.) It was irregular to refer to what transpired
in another house, but it was rendered necessary in this
instance, an hon. member in that house having been
made the mouthpiece of her Majesty's Government on
this question. (Rear.) The noble and learned lord then
referred to the various questions that had been put in
the other house to members of her Majesty's Govern-
meat in that house in reference to Lord Canning's policy
in India, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer remarked
last week that the Government disapproved of Lord
Canning's policy in " every sense." That, he contended,
was an adoption of the despatch by the Government.
Beyond that, he was prepared to express his opinion
that it was a despatch nothing could justify—(cheers)—
and however wrong Lord Canning might have actel, it
was the duty of the Government to have remonstrated
with him in a private and not in a public manner, or
have recalled him if they thought his proclamation indi-
cated a policy disastrous to the country, but nothing,
however, could justify the sending out what he could
scarcely refrain from calling an insulting despatch, which
the tenor of this despatch indicated. (Cheers.) If the
tone and temperature of the letter had been in accord-
ance with the remarks of the noble earl on a former oc-
casion, it would have been a justifiable one, but the pub-
lished despatch went far beyond that. He considered
the complicity of the whole Government had been estab-
lished in publishing a despatch which nothing on the
part of Lord Canning could have justified its writing.
He felt persuaded, when it was examined, it would turn
out that it was the sucrainty of the land that was con•
fiscated, and not the holders or the occupiers.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE, to use a vulgar ex-
pression, believed it would turn out the noble and learned
lord (Lord Cranworth) had found a mare's nest, fir he
had mixed up in his remarks two separate despatches.
In the speeches of all the noble and learned lords on thy-
other side tf the house there was a condemnation of the
despatch itself, whilst at the same time they condemned
annexation ; but why, instead of adopting that °our:o,
had they not brought forward a motion to that effect /
Any person who read the paragraph in the despatch r,-
lativa to confiscation, must see that it referred to the
whole of the people and the soil of the country—(hear)—
and in the explanatory despatch accompanying the pro-
clamation into Oude instructions were given how the
people, who were divided into three classes, were to be
dealt with. Any person who bad watched the late occur-
rences in India must be aware that the least disturbance
of British authority and greatest obedience to cur autho-
rity in the most critical circumstances existed in those dis-
tricts where we had least interfered with the owners of
the soil. It was confiscation in Ireland that had caused
so much ill-feeling towards England.
Earl GREY intended to vote for the motion of his
noble friend, bat in doing so he must disclaim being actu-
ated by any party feelings. Ever since the Whig party
was broken up in 1852 he had kept himself free from all
party ties. On that account he had never been the partisan
of the late Government ; and for the same reason, when
that Government fell, so far from his determining to op-
pose the incoming Administration, he was most anxious
they should be afforded every opportunity of establishing
themselves in power, for he felt that such frequent
changes of Government were attended with great public
inconvenience. But, above all, he desired it to be under-
stood that the vote which he was about to give was in
no ways influenced by a feeling of hostility towards the
noble earl recently at the head of the Indian Board, far
he entertained the highest opinion of that noble lord's
knowledge of India, as well as respect for his personal
character. However, therefore, it was that he felt the
deepest regret at what occurred last week in another
place, foreseeing that the effect must be to weaken the
stability of the Government. For it seemed to him
impossible, no matter how great the consequent in-
conveuience that the House of Commons c :uld over-
look what then happened. Now what he (Earl Grey)
objected to was the premature publication of the de-
spatch of the noble earl. At the Fame time, although
undoubtedly they were not in a position to firm an
exact opinion with respect to the proclamation itself, he
must express his total disbelief that its effect would be
1 what was described by the noble earl. (Hear, hear.)
He found men who had had great experience of India,
and who understood the laws and habits of India, gave
a different interpretation to the proclama ion from
that put forward by the noble earl. However, as to
that point, they must wait for the explanations of Lord
Canning himself. But Lord Canning had been blamed
for not sending home those explanations already. Now,
remembering how Lord Canning had been oppressed by
the weight of affairs—how every moment of his time
had been occupied—above all, that the Government of
India must mainly be carried on India, they ought not
to have been in a hurry for those explanations. (Hear.)
They had no right to expect full explanations until they
received the documents actually issued. When he was
at the head of the Colonial-office he invariably treated
such documents as that forwarded to the noble earl by
Lord Canning as the expression of an opinion which was
liable to be altered. But, adopting the view which the
noble earl did of the proclamation of Lord Canning, did
he find fault with the writing of such a despatch ! No,
certainly not ' • although, perhaps, "the noble earl might
have assumed a different term in the communication of
his views. What he did disapprove of was, the unhappy
determination to lay the despatch before Parliament.
(Cheers.) He believed it was impossible to exaggerate
the ill effects of that publication. (Renewed cheers.)
At the same time there was one paragraph in the de-
spatch which ought not to nave been introduced into it.
He alluded to the paragraph having rderenoe to the
annexation of Oude. On the whole, perhaps, his opt-
nines were unfavourable to the policy of annexation ;
but whether it was right or wrong, it was a dereliction
obrfadndutyinonthethfeacpeeortf
of a Minister of
.the Crown to
1
Europe and of Asia the conduct
of the previous advisers of his royal mistress with
treachery and injustice. (Loud cheers.) Such a course
was utterly unjustifiable. But it was said after the re •
tirement of the noble earl they ought not to affix the
responsibibity of publication upon the Ministry. Ho
believed that der such occasions there must be a joie'
responsibility, for without is they would have Ministers'
divided amongst theme lve,, and all the intriguing as of
old of one Minister against another—(hear)—in fact,
0,81 anything like settled government would be imp • 119.
However, if a government did not mean to hold itself
responsible for the acts of particular Ministers, those
g ht Forntolit st:-,
acts must be disavowed at the earliest possible moment,
and not after they had become the ,ert,j..,ct of discussion
rihneeas
sit twotohanetse ittoa
adopt
fdp:e u;
r: ee
tsdh oet for Pehsai
I, ral
lotioni a
thattttet)
thet.
of
his
house(C hneoloe.
u)
friend,
and
he must at the same time express his astonishmint th It
for the first time in our parliamentary history a motion
tantamount to a vote of censure should be met on the
part of the Government by Inovieg the previous epee.
titer. (Loud cheer-.)
The Duke of NEWCASTLE had no desire whatever
to see the present Government removed from (,Elite,
nevertheless he must vote for the motion of the noble i
earl. A t the same time he could not give his entire ap-
proval to the form in which the motion was brought
forward, as be considered it much too narrow, any'
framed too much with a view to catch votes. (Hear.)
He thought if they were to vote for " the previous ques-
tion," it would go forth to the world that Parliament
was indifferent on the subject. He would not enter into.
th
theme este whether they ought to approve or die-
approve of y the
were proclamation.
o attempt
to
flotrmweuld be absurd le
absence of all information to guide themaa toopiniaroing
hi the
right con-
cou:

elusion. He totally disapproved of the language used
in the despatch with reference to the annexation of
Oude. It was quite evident that all along the de-
spatch of the Government was intended for publics
tion, and it was for its publication that he in-
tended to support the motion of the noble
earl. He had been the intimate friend of Lord Can-
ning for several years ; nevertheless, if he could possibly
support the Government upon such an occasion he would
willingly sacrifice his private feelings from consideration
for the public interest?. Hence he totally disapproved
of the proceedings of the Government, and therefore he
must record his vote against them. (Cheers.)
The Earl of DERBY—I am not disposed to complain.
of the tone or language either of the noble lord opposite
(Earl Grey) or of the noble duke who last addressed
your lordships, and I readily and freely admit that
neither the noble earl nor the noble duke is actuated in
the slightest degree by party feeling on this question. I
believe that no one in this house is so free from any
peculiar bias or party feeling as the noble earl and the
noble duke. Least of all do I feel disposed to complain
of the clueing observation of the noble duke, in which,
with a warmth of feeling which does him credit, he vin-
dicated (as he supposed it was necessary) the character of
his absent friend. ([fear, hear.) For my part, in en-
deavouring to deal with this question, I can assure the
noble duke and the numerous friends of Lord Canning,
—and he has many on both sides of the house—(bear,
hear)—that nothing is further from my desire than to
utter even a single expression against the character or
conduct of that noble lord, with the single exception of
the Oude proclamation. Lord Canning in his admini,
stration of Indian affairs, placed, as he was, in circum-
stances of great difficulty, exhibited a great amount of
firmness, and on former occasions a most laudable spirit
of humanity, for which I give him infinite credit in the
position in which he found himself. Bat remembering
this, the greater is my regret to find that a man actuated
by such principles has been led to issue so unfortunate
and ill-time a proclamation. While I entirely acquit
the noble earl and the noble duke of any political or
party motives, I cannot carry my complaisance so far as
to assume that this question is to be debated and decided
purely and simply on its merits without reference to poli-
tical or party considerations. (Hear.) It is true the
noble earl who opened this discussion announced that be
came for ward asone who stood in assort of neutral position
where no man could suspect him of bias. "My sym-
pathies," said the noble lord, "are always on the side of
those who sit on the opposite benches." Now, Ido not
dispute that Lis sympathies may be on this side, but I
must say that his votes are more frequently given on the
other. (Laughter,) And when the noble earl declares
himself free from all party feeling, I cannot help having
it suggested to my mind that if resolutions were to be
proposed by a person uninfluenced in this way it might
have been better had they been brought for-sand by one
not so closely connected with the noble lord who was at
the head of the late Administration. (Cheers and
laughter.) The noble earl's notice was given on Monday
last. I don't know whether he attended it, but I pre-
sume he had communicated to him the result of that
Sunday meeting which I am told was not entirely for
religious purposes. (Cheers and laughter) I mention it
merely as a singular coincidence. On Sunday last a
meeting was held at the house of the noble lord (Palmer-
ston), at which it is supposed (and I believe on very
good authority) that the subject of the motion was
discussed ; and it does so happen that the noble
earl, intimately and closely connected with the noble
viscount, gives on Monday in this house notice of
his intention to submit a similar resolution. (Hear.)
Now, whether or not the noble earl is so entirely
uninfluenced as he is desirous of being considered, I
must say this house is very greatly changed from what
I ever knew it before if the attendance I see here on
both sides does 'not indicate some little idea that a
party question is at stake. (Laughter.) If, however, I
ever doubted whether any political or party question
was involved, I should have been undeceived altogether
by the tone of this debate, the whole tendency of which
has been to convert the very simple and very innocent
motion of the noble earl into one of censure upon the
Government. This is put forward broadly, distinctly,
clearly ; and after that to tell me this is no political
or party question passes even my belief. (Laughter.)
My lords, two subjects have been mixed up in this
debate which ought to be kept separate. This one is
the merits of the original proclamation and of the secret
despatch ; and the other is the subsequent publication
of that despatch, and the responsibility of her Majesty's
Government with regard to it. These are two perfectly
distinct and separate questions. As to the substance of
my noble friend's despatch, I adopt it, I adhere to it, I
stand by it. With regard to the publication of that de-
spatch, I had no knowledge of it, I was not consulted
about ft, and I regret the fact. (Hear, hear.) To begin,
then, with the proclamation and my noble friend's com-
ments upon it. There is one thing which has given me
unfeigned satisfaction in the course of this discussion.
Several most valuable admissions have been made on the
other side of the house. Setting apart certain expressions
used by my noble friend, the noble earl who opened this
discussion said he should not Sod much fault with this
despatch if it were addressed to Lord Canning as a secret
despatch for the purpose of guidance or even of reproof.
Subs,ciaently we have had more valuable admissions
still, for I believe the noble earl (Grey) said that if the
proclamation was susceptible of the interpretation glycia
to it by my noble friend (the Earl of Ellenborough) ro
terms of censure could be too severe for it. (Hear, hear.)
This much, then, will, at all events, result from the dis-
cussion. It will show that, setting aside the meaning of
Lord Canning's proclamation, the unanimous opinion of
this house. is that wholesale confiscation in Oude would
be an unjustifiable course of proceeding, and that clo-
meecy to the vanquished ought to be the rule adopted.
(Hear.) That is the unanimous opinion expressed. Noble
lords on the other side of the house put themselves pro-
minently forward to proclaim this doctrine, and declare
that that is Lord Canning's meaning. With all my heart
and soul do I desire it may turn out that that has been
his meaning. Your lordships are to recollect, however,
that the despatch upon which so much criticism has been
bestowed was one written by my noble friend, and fully
adopted by the Government, upon the receipt of a
proclamation which appeared to us to convey in no
doubtful terms a doctrine very contrary to that which
it is now declared to contain. We received that pro-
clamation. My noble friend had a month previously
laid down in a despatch to Lord Canning what were his
own views and the views of the Government as to the
course which ought to be pursued. That despatch wes
dated March 24, under the belief that before that time
the city of Lucknow would be evacuated by the rebels,
and that no considerable body would remain in arms
against us throughout the country, and it proceeds to
intimate the policy which the Government thought it
desirable should be adopted :
"To us it appears that, whenever open resistance shall
have ceased, it wouldbe prudent, iu awarding ponossmeat
rather to follow the practice which prevails after the con-
di a
auseps
at
roaft
ea
warcountry
than w
thhi ca ht
wh ahsi
ah defendeday itself
perhaps t o
hteh
le
alast
lbl yy
adopted after 'the suppression of mutiny and rebellion—
such acts always being exempted from forgiveness or miti-
gation of punishment as have exceeded the licence of legi-
timate hostilities."
After recommending a general disarmament, and as fares
possible a general amnesty, it deeares that "in every
amnestied district the ordinary administration of the law
should as soon as possible be restored." In order to show
the animus of my noble friend towards Lord Canning I
beg your lordships' attention to this passage :
"In carrying those views into execution you may meet
with obstructions from those who, maddened by the scenes
they have witnessed, may desire to substitute their own
policy for that of the Government ; but persevere firmly is
doing what you may think right ; make those who world
counteract you feel that you are resolved to rule, and that
you will be served by none who will not obey. Acting in
this spirit, you may rely upoi our unqualified support."
(cheers.) Tnat was the language used by my noble friend
on larch 24th; those were the principles laid down; and
then, not of course in answer to this despatch, for it could
not have been received, but following on its issue, came
the proclamation, which undoubtedly appeared to us to
be couched in a very different sprit. There is no question
that that proclamation intimated to the talookdars, the
chiefs, and inhabitants of Oude, that, with a few specified
exceptions, the whole proprietary rights of the sod
were confiscated to the Crown. Instructions certainly
accompany it, addressed to the Commissioner of Oude ;
but, as my noble friend most justly remarked in his des--
pa. ch, these instructions did not go It, the poop's of
Otvhs. They receive d the bare and naked proclamation,
and nothing snore. '(Hear.) Well, then it is said. "On,
but this does not at all mean what you suppose it does ;
it only means that the talookdars and the great men will
be divested of rights of lordship, which thereafter will
be vested in the Crown, but it never crossed Lord Can-
ning's mind to interfere with their private rights." I
should like to knew, however, what would be thought
by the noble earl or the noble duke if an Act of Parlia-
ment were passed in reference to their respective cow:-
ties confiscating to the Crown all " the proprietary
rights of the soil." (Hear, and a lwgh ) Their tenut e
being thereafter that ef cop;bolders under the Crown,
with no guarantee for the future security of their pos-
session', I rather suspect they would imagine, seeing
such a term in as Aet of Parliament, that they must look
sharply about them or else they would soon have not au
acre left. (Hear) There may be some abstruse, bidden
meaning in this proclamation, intehigible to the people
of India ; but my belief is that upon receiving this infor-
mation they would deem it to be a notice to all the in-
hab.tants of 011,1 e, high and low, rich and poor, thet,
with the few exceptions there specified, every roan should
be deprived of the laud on which alone he depends fer
subsistance. (Hear.) Toe naming of six persons—and
six only—who were to be permitted to retain their inhe-
ritancea as they herd them at the time
.gf the annexatien
of Ouse seems to me, so far as thoseasorsons were
con-
cerned, hardly a fair mode of procceding. It appears to
me that they were placed in a most invidious and, 1
think, hardly in a vary safe position. Yuu had scarcely
conquered the country ; you were surrounded by a pc-
pulatien most hostile to you ; and you select persons who
have adhered to you faithfully—who, under groat
trials, have reel ted ail tewpation to quit your eau- e
out by naese, and telling thirst
—singling
alonetbeal of all their countrymen shall enter
;no pes:eeeion of their lands, and that as a
signal re ,eard for their distinguiehed fi ielity they
shall be permitted to retain those lande, "subject only
to such moderate asse sment as rosy be imposed upon
them." If this is the way lin which you reward your
friends I must say I don't know what you mean to. do
with regard to your enemies. (A. laugh.) But it is said
it was not intended to dispossess these, person of
,their
lande. Now, my lords, let us see—apart from the mere
terms of the proclamation itself—what was the gloss put ,
upon it in the letter issued for its explanation. There
were three classes of per-one specified in the proclamh-
time according to their different degrees of guilt and con',
la-ative innocence. With ro,,ard to the second class—