The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-06 00:00:00

may be necessary for giving effect," &v. The fact is we '
have taken those steps. (" No, no I The bills.") That is
a formal affair; the decision of the house has been arrived
at. In the case of 1787, when the address from which this
is copied was moved, not a single vote in the committee of
customs had been taked, the mode of levying the duties had
not been altered, and therefore there is a great difference be-
tween the two cases. However, that is a question on which
I will not dwell now. lam extremely glad that the noble
lord has taken the course which he has done, and I am sure
he must see its propriety, because it was, I believe, past
midnight on Eriday when the notice was given. At that
time a great number of gentlemen, including my right hon.
friend the member for Droitwich had left the house, and
many of them left town on the following morning. With
regard to the time for the consideration of this address, I
should think Friday would be a more convenient day than
Thursday, as it would interfere with no other arrange-
ments, and I would therefore suggest to the noble lord that
it would be more acceptable to the house if he would fix the
Ility day instead of the earlier.
Lord PALMERSTON was understood to say that this
would lead to inconvenience in case of the adjournment of
the debate.

Mr. HOItSMAN called the attention of the house to the
fact that during the present session they had given to the
,G4verritnent facilities forconducting business such as had
tien asked by no Oci,ernment before, (Hear, hear.) Since
the night when the tlancellor of the Exchequer introduced
his budget the G ovenroimt had been allowed to appropriate
every notice lay for the discussion of their financial resolu-
tions,

No Such indulgen'ee was given to Sir R. Peel in 1842

or 18-15, nor was it asked by the present Chancellor in 1853,
although on all those occasions the fiscal changes and the
unsettlement of trade wore greater than they had been on
the present occasion. More than this, the Government, to
facilitate the passing of the Customs' duties, had been al-
lowed to appropriate Thursday for the introduction of the
Reform Bill. All this had been cheerfully conceded ; but

he thought the house ought to put a limit upon these con-
cessions—(hear, hear)—which had in no previous session
been demanded by any Government. There had, of course,
been occasions on which there had been adjourned debates
upon the budget which had, to suit the general conve-
nience, taken precedence of notices of motion ; but to the
present. Government had been readily and cheerfully con-
ceded that which had never been asked before. He, there-
fore, submitted that the Government ought not to press the
house too far, and that, instead of asking for next Thurs-
day evening, they ought to fix the consideration of this
address for Friday.
Sir J. PAKINGTON—I cannot allow this conversation
_ to close without expreSsing my satisfaction that the Govern-
ment and the hon. gentleman opposite have thought it right
to take the course which they have done, and my earnest
hope that the extraordinary notice given on Friday night
will not be drawn into a precedent, because I must say that
since I have had the honour of a seat in this house I can
ramember no instance in which the conduct of the Govern-
ment had so much the appearance of an intention to take
the house by surprise—(hear, hear)—and, if possible, to
prevent or strangle the discussion upon a question of great
interest and importance, as the notice which was given by
the hon. member for Middlesex between 12 and 1 o'clock on
Saturday morning. In my opinion, the course which was
then taken by the Government and by the hon. member on
their behalf was not only most unusual, but also most dis-
courteous to the house—( ' Oh, oh," and hear, hear)—and
I fun very glad that the Government hare seen,fit to change
their course. I entirely concur with my right hon. friend
the member for Stroud in what he has said as to the prace
tice of occupying Thursday nights with Government busi-
ness ; and I hope that the Government will not persevere
in their intention to bring on this motion on Thursday even-
ing. The noble viscount has intimated across the table
that the reason for taking that course is the -possibility of
the debble being adjourned. In answer to that, I will say
that the Government must take the chance which all Govern-
ments have on all occasions taken when bringing forward
bills on Government nights ; and, therefore, hope that the
house will not sanction this proposal. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I think
the right hon. baronet, seeing there is no difference of opin-
ion as to the course which ought to be pursued, might have
abstained from making the deliberate charge which he has
thought proper to prefer against the Government of endea-
vouring to stifle discussion upon the commercial treaty with
France. (Hear, hear.) 1 do not think the Government have
shown any desire to stifle discussion. (Hear, hear.) We
are perfectly satisfied by the results of the discussion which
has taken place, Sand perhape it is some dissatisfaction with
those results which has induced the right hon. baronet to
make his unnecessary charge. (Hear, hear. But, however,
thatmay be, I think my right hon. friend the member for
Stroud is labouring under a misapprehension with respect
both to principle and to fact. In the first place, with re-
gard to the acceleration of public business, I must always,
whether in or out of office, protest aeainst the assumption
that it is a favour to the Government to allow them to pro-
ceed with their measures on days that do not properly be-
lung to them. It is not at all for the convenience of the
Government that they ehould be permitted to take a larger
share than usual of the tile of the house. My right hon.
friend must know that a rapid rate of proceeding brings an
additional and a very inconvenient amount of labour upon
the:Government. It is a regard to the general interests
of the country and to the very definite and press-
ing interests of the whole commercial and trading
classes that makes us anxious to arrive at an early conclusion
on the budget. (Hear.) But I think likewise my right
hon. friend is wrong in point of fact. lam not prepared to
quote chapter and verse, of the precedents at the present
moment, but, uulees my recollection geeatly deceives rae,
we did, upon many nights in ISI2, proceed with the tariff
when the Government had not regular precedence. Un-
doubtedly that WO s not the only instance, for under all
Governments, when the case has appeared to be of suffi-
cient urgency to justify it, a similar demand has been made
and acceded to by the house. Of emus° that is a question
entirely in the discretion of the house ; and when-
ever the Government perceives the existence of a
general adverse disposition on the part of the
house it will at once withdraw such a demand. But I think
my noble friend has given on this occasion one very special
reason why it is eminently for the convenience of all parties
that we should goon, as proposed on Thursday. If there is
to be an adjourned debate we shall be able to carry it on
after an interval of only a few hours, instead of one of three
days, and those gentlemen who may be detained in London
will be liberated at a much earlier period. (A laugh.) But
it so happens that if any one will take the trouble to turn to
the notices which stand for Thursday he will see that it is a
day eminently convenient for the motion of the hon. mem-
ber for Middlesex to be made. We are not endeavouring to
bring forward an order upon a notice night. The hon. mem-
ber for Middlesex (gives notice of a motion, and proposes to
place it on the paper for Thursday. It may stand very well
upon its own merits as a notice which will only compete
with other notices, and which w al not displace any without
the full consent of the movers. It seems to be forgotten that
the Government -have not;' after all, received the favours of
which we hare heard. arrinclit All we have been enabled to
do by the aid and kindness of many hon. members has been
to occupy the later portions of two or three evenings which
otherwise mightnot have been occupied at all. On Thursday
night, it is irue; My noble friend the Secretary for
Foreign
Affairs eves permitted to bring forward a very important
subject at au early hour; but on Tuesday night the hon.
member At Bridgewater, in the exercise of his discretion,
called the attention of the house to a question of which he
had given:,nOtice, and although we were allowed to occupy
the later; portion of &evening no inconvenience was expe-
rienced ley any merit so harp' ns, however, as I have al.
ready said, that the notices foi Thursday next are not very
numerous, and I believe they will be found to be either
such as are not likely to lead to prolonged discussions, from
the nature of the subjects, or such as cannot lead to pro-
longed discussion because they are agreed to. The motion
relating to dockyards has been agreed to, and the motion
on our relations with the Neapolitan Government is, I un-
derstand, one 'that cannot be conveniently discussed in de-
tail in the:present state of affairs and the present state of
the house as to information. I must say, therefore, it would
be little better than e. waste of time if we were not to take
the convenient opportunity of proceeding with the impor-
tant motion of my hon. friend the member for Middlesex on
Thursday, with the view, of closing the discussion on Friday
in case the house should 'wish for an adjourned debate. But
that rests in the discretion of the house, only-yea are not
disposed to take the opinion of two or three members for the
general wish of the house, as is sometimes done. My belief
is, that the general inclination of the house, as far as we are

able to gather it, is in conformity with the notice given by
the hon. member for'Middlesex—viz., that he should pro-
ceed with his.motion on ThUrsday. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. FITZGERALD reminded the house that the
Uovernment had done no more than accede to the sugges-
tion of the hon. member for Sunderland, that the motion
for an address on the subject of the. French treaty should
be Postponed for a day orlwo. It seemed to him, however,
that the question which had been raised by the hon. member
for Bridgewater was one of still greater importance. It was
not a question whether on Thuritlay or Friday the house
should signify its assent to or disapproval of a commercial
treaty, or whether that discussion should be deferred till
another occasion. Neither was it a question whether the
house should express its opinion on the contemplated an-
nexation.of Savoy and Nice to France. The question was
whether the house should embrace the present opportunity,
when matters seriously affecting the relations of this coun-
try and the whole of Europe with France were before the
public, of signifying its assent to a treaty, by which, in the
words of the noble lord at the head of the Foreign_ofilee,
our relations with France were to be rendered closer and
more intimate. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for
Bridgewater had well pointed out that the question
raised by him in his speech was of far greater impor-
tance than the mere annexation of a small portion of
territory. It only affectsd the independence andthe
m
security
r
of Switzerland, but, as the hon. baronet h
for Tamworth had stated, in forcible language, it
had a very important bearing upon the relations of France
with Germany. (Hear, hear.) It had also an important
bearing upon the relations of France with Italy, where in
consequence of the progosed annexation France might ex-
ercise an influence and power far more formidable thanhad
at any time been exercised by Austria. (Hear, hear.) But
the question was one of still greater importance to Europe,